1575262;1480550411;mircea_popescu;gabriel_laddel then your schedule's no good, throw it out make another.
1575263;1480550424;trinque;phf: lel
1575264;1480550444;gabriel_laddel;mircea_popescu: no. throw out the unix nonsense and make predictions about how long it will take to write CL, which I can reason about.
1575265;1480550517;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel: do you envision the 'unix nonsense' retreating into an airtight balloon that you have made for it, through sheer force of will ? to kill it in a staring concept ?
1575266;1480550530;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel: what is it that you picture doing to it, that no one has thought of doing previously ?
1575267;1480550544;asciilifeform;to make it sit in the balloon , somehow stink-proof and escape-proof.
1575268;1480550595;mircea_popescu;gabriel_laddel any schedule you make that doesn't include a fixed time to get pubkey is for that reason unusable ; throw it out and re-do.
1575269;1480550636;gabriel_laddel;mircea_popescu: mk. Will do tonight. Am presently getting X11 log for ascii.
1575270;1480550695;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575104 << this deserves long meditation
1575271;1480550695;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:21 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i'd loot a lot more than 10s of mns if i found a way to reliably get people to do the things that need done rather than the sexy things they want to do BEFORE they are old enough for their active life to be mostly behind them.
1575272;1480550711;asciilifeform;speaking of keys, i'd quite enjoy learning who made /gpgkey/E3B0C44298FC1C149AFBF4C8996FB92427AE41E4649B934CA495991B7852B855 and why
1575273;1480550714;*;trinque afk for now to do so
1575274;1480550789;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel: i must also retreat to a dark room to do 'unsexy and necessary' per mircea_popescu's formula, long-needed job, so bbl.
1575275;1480550876;asciilifeform;^ http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E3B0C44298FC1C149AFBF4C8996FB92427AE41E4649B934CA495991B7852B855
1575276;1480550941;*;phf has been working this entire time
1575277;1480551036;trinque;it strikes me that there is a perversity in "serving a man in your own way"
1575278;1480551040;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575212 << it drives this.
1575279;1480551040;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:47 asciilifeform: i find it interesting that (iirc) gabriel_laddel was mega-aficionado of my www, but will not take any of my advice nao.
1575280;1480551063;gabriel_laddel;asciilifeform: I envision 1. masamune is self-hosting, with the ability to replicate itself onto a livecd containing all sources used to build it, that can then produce like replicants. 2. no more updates to ALGOL systems, ever, given that all the sources needed for the lisp environment are self-contained. 3. A CLIM system manager that abstracts ov
1575281;1480551063;gabriel_laddel;er equery/emerge (more details later) 4. using this *stable* platform to do simulations for sane computing in CL 5. supporting this venture by leveraging lisp/clim/climacs/macsyma/sbcl against the rest of the world, which cannot produce GUIs / code / production systems as quickly.
1575282;1480551070;trinque;but oh right, "great artists steal"
1575283;1480551072;*;trinque yawns
1575284;1480551095;trinque;what a misunderstood item that was
1575285;1480551261;phf;!!up gabriel_laddel
1575286;1480551261;deedbot;gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
1575287;1480551746;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575277 << perversity yes ; and a greater measure of stupidity.
1575288;1480551746;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 00:10 trinque: it strikes me that there is a perversity in "serving a man in your own way"
1575289;1480551853;jurov;i can picture several ways how this approach to self-hosting can fail, but does not look like you're open to advices
1575290;1480551863;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_HZAsa2Sw#t=2m00s << imo the greatest musical achievement of the killer micro.
1575291;1480551954;jurov;i'd think of something that touches only malloc, filesystem (optional) and communicates only vnc/X11 via socket
1575292;1480552045;gabriel_laddel;jurov: I'm open to advice, I just disagree with them. What's on your mind?
1575293;1480552158;jurov;there are still too many moving parts, what do you do when you find catastrophic bug in X, or it has only hardware drivers for devices that can't be bought anymore?
1575294;1480552209;gabriel_laddel;jurov: patch it and share with WOT. If it cannot be fixed, make a note of it and distribute.
1575295;1480552210;jurov;mircea wanted similar freeze with eulora, i can't imagine it
1575296;1480552232;jurov;you will backport drivers to ancient X server?
1575297;1480552242;gabriel_laddel;jurov: all the other masamune machines out in the wild are running the same sources as I am
1575298;1480552250;gabriel_laddel;the process needs to be streamlined.
1575299;1480552265;mircea_popescu;!
1575300;1480552266;gabriel_laddel;jurov: what? no, we're going to bake our own hardware.
1575301;1480552277;mircea_popescu;<gabriel_laddel> jurov: I'm open to advice, I just disagree with them. << lol!
1575302;1480552279;mircea_popescu;!~bash 1
1575303;1480552279;jhvh1;Last 1 lines bashed and pending publication
1575304;1480552307;jurov;5 years go by, video card breaks and can't be bought, what now?
1575305;1480552318;jurov;*bought the same
1575306;1480552329;gabriel_laddel;jurov: bribe the chinese to bake some more
1575307;1480552333;gabriel_laddel;it's in the logs.
1575308;1480552343;jurov;mkay
1575309;1480552352;mircea_popescu;jurov yes, the problem is not well solved and not evidently solvable, but this doesn't make it not  a problem.
1575310;1480552516;gabriel_laddel;asciilifeform: Xorg.0.log: paste.lisp.org/display/332951
1575311;1480552636;jurov;gabriel_laddel: you should enable debug info and reemerge world to get meaningful backtraces
1575312;1480552671;jurov;till that you can run xorg under strace and give that to alf
1575313;1480552694;gabriel_laddel;mk
1575314;1480552698;gabriel_laddel;am off to dinner though, night.
1575315;1480552702;jurov;night
1575316;1480554116;adlai;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575187 << first log appearance for this, led me to http://www.the-programmers-stone.com/about which makes two preposterous claims in one sentence before i've even scrolled down once: "I discovered that (almost) everyone can become a super-programmer, and with a crew of super-programmers, gelled teams form up naturally."
1575317;1480554116;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:38 phf: programmer's stone made a point long time ago that you need to be really fucking relaxed to write quality code
1575318;1480554182;phf;adlai: you don't want to read it too closely, i certainly am not going to waste my time defending nitpicking
1575319;1480554355;adlai;re: 'dope', lose the alpha-methyl... much more useful effects, at least in my (limited) experience coding under such influences
1575320;1480554422;*;adlai is speaking broadly here. literally taking the alpha-methyl off 'meth' is not the intent here, but rather nominating for consideration substituted PEAs such as mescaline
1575321;1480554660;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7B492BD67F2960831073C17D04FB7E0EB3CD90D9767392115A3DD804220B2656 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1620...6257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.3.207.210 (ssh-rsa key from 83.3.207.210 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (grz210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
1575322;1480554660;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A8567569490690A4A212DEEDF7809300A0F133264CEB4ED07E15261F5F26C5E4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2067...1921 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '128.238.63.50 (ssh-rsa key from 128.238.63.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blackbox.poly.edu. US NY)
1575323;1480554879;shinohai;Today's mass shooting event is brought to you by Baltimore: http://archive.is/UIe9v
1575324;1480554947;mod6;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-November/000241.html
1575325;1480554956;mod6;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-December/000242.html
1575326;1480554998;adlai;in other news, physics lecturer is quite good: "being here does not excuse you from thinking, rather thinking is required of you" also "i can explain everything you want, but you'll have to start listening". so he's not quite throwing out the idiots, but it looks like he goes as far as he can without getting his jerb tooken away
1575327;1480555141;adlai;what i can't fathom is this fetish all the teachers have for writing content by hand in realtime, rather than clicking a button and having a computer instantly display a legible, proofread, typeset, etc version
1575328;1480555272;mod6;whoops. meant to remove that second paragraph out of the SoBA all.  my apologies.  please ignore that part.
1575329;1480555769;shinohai;Still, quite the productive month.
1575330;1480555872;adlai;congratulations!
1575331;1480555922;*;adlai recently tried pressing & building trb on fbsd; did not go well, needs another attempt. but for now - sleep.
1575332;1480556537;shinohai;This may be the best story I have seen all day: Former gay porn actor turned German spy arrested for secretly being a Jihadist http://archive.is/9SQqY
1575333;1480556600;mod6;adlai: yeah, to make it work on bsd you need some special tweaks.  otherwise, won't go.
1575334;1480556609;mod6;adlai: also, thanks :]
1575335;1480556668;*;shinohai thinks a bsd version should be added to how-to in future
1575336;1480556860;BingoBoingo;deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/LnrhN/?raw=true
1575337;1480557015;BingoBoingo;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/LnrhN/?raw=true
1575338;1480557035;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/qntra-s-qntr-november-2016-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2016 Report
1575339;1480557065;deedbot;accepted: 1
1575340;1480557126;mod6;shinohai: well, at one point the one patch we had made that possible, but with buildroot now in the mix, im not sure.  would have to be dug into.
1575341;1480557153;mod6;and mainly there is so much other non-infrastructure related work to do, i think that's taking a back-seat unless someone steps up to work on it and contribute.
1575342;1480557272;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575048 << I'm actually rather surprised there isn't a generic scrypt shitcoin miner in postscript for the Printernet of Things
1575343;1480557272;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:01 asciilifeform: (postscript is, approximately, a hypertrophied forth)
1575344;1480557514;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575158 << The way tolerance works could have been doing 1 gram per day his last hundred days.
1575345;1480557514;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:32 asciilifeform: i think erdos never ate 100g even in his 75 yr working life
1575346;1480557593;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575172 << Scam. All cocaine does is make you want more cocaine.
1575347;1480557593;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:36 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: tried cocaine yet?
1575348;1480557627;mircea_popescu;adlai it's not entirely evident to me that average intelligence person could not make excellent programmer. contrary to the "consensus" on the topic, programming is much more a matter of not being dumb than of being "creative"
1575349;1480557645;mircea_popescu;and dumb is by and large an apanage reserved to the "intelligent"
1575350;1480557837;mircea_popescu;phf ✂ < lol!
1575351;1480557881;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575228 << Mental obsession and physical allergy combine to create a profound physical and spiritual sickness.
1575352;1480557881;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:53 trinque: the mind will create elaborate narratives to justify addiction. never affected me directly, but I've seen it.
1575353;1480557910;mircea_popescu;mod6 nice!
1575354;1480558569;mod6;salud!
1575355;1480559948;mircea_popescu;in random fun facts : soviet military expenditure in the 30s was ~12% of gdp. it jumped to ~18% in early 1940. this is BEFORE germany invaded (1941). today "normal" military expenditure is 1.x%, from japan and australia to italy or germany. the us does ~3.x. of the rich countries, the saudis are the only ones being reasonable (ie, over10%). the jews are half that.
1575356;1480559972;mircea_popescu;the difference goes to supporting the hipster class.
1575357;1480560008;mircea_popescu;takes a whole lotta ipads to make one tank.
1575358;1480560191;asciilifeform;the things usg spends 'military' moneys on, are only with difficulty and vigorous anal pear cranking stretchable to call 'military'
1575359;1480560233;asciilifeform;e.g., for many years -- asciilifeform .
1575360;1480560335;asciilifeform;as for tanks , i got stuck behind one in traffic (no, not hallucinating, it was on a flatbed as it ought to be.) this used to be more common sight. but as i understand they are not making so many new ones, the 1 (yes 1) factory in ohio is laying off hands
1575361;1480560375;asciilifeform;much better use of budget: f35 'factories'
1575362;1480560398;asciilifeform;english lacks the handy handy word, распил .
1575363;1480560566;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/gU0Pw << in other yesterday's noose.
1575364;1480560703;mircea_popescu;aha.
1575365;1480560758;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform note the "version 41 to 50".
1575366;1480561444;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1575367;1480561445;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 441366 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 137 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 21 hours, 37 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1575368;1480561476;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/emergency-mozilla-bulletin-stop-using-firefox/ << Qntra - Emergency Mozilla Bulletin: Stop Using Firefox
1575369;1480563297;BingoBoingo;New Trilema header image, much chest hair!
1575370;1480563705;mircea_popescu;:p
1575371;1480564806;mircea_popescu;!!up garmin
1575372;1480564806;deedbot;garmin voiced for 30 minutes.
1575373;1480565021;BingoBoingo;!!up garmin Speak now or prolly never get voice again
1575374;1480565021;deedbot;garmin voiced for 30 minutes.
1575375;1480565502;mircea_popescu;and in other news : http://nosuchlabs.com/ << can now order FUCKGOATS
1575376;1480565522;asciilifeform;gentlemen !!
1575377;1480565870;garmin;hi all... testing my pocket chip micro... fat figering a micro qwerty ;-p
1575378;1480566070;BingoBoingo;garmin: WHo is your daddy and what does he do?
1575379;1480566104;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bPXX8/?raw=true
1575380;1480566308;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/no-such-labs-unveils-fuckgoats/ << Qntra - No Such lAbs Unveils FUCKGOATS
1575381;1480566406;mircea_popescu;win.
1575382;1480566458;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7B492BD67F2960831073C17D04FB7E0EB3CD90D9767392115A3DD804220B2656 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...5747 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.3.207.210 (ssh-rsa key from 83.3.207.210 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (grz210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
1575383;1480566459;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A8567569490690A4A212DEEDF7809300A0F133264CEB4ED07E15261F5F26C5E4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1430...1817 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '128.238.63.50 (ssh-rsa key from 128.238.63.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blackbox.poly.edu. US NY)
1575384;1480567802;asciilifeform;gentlemen -- start your spmengines.
1575385;1480567828;asciilifeform;no heathen pit too rancid !
1575386;1480567831;mircea_popescu;lol
1575387;1480568389;BingoBoingo;https://twitter.com/qntra/status/804180936082518016
1575388;1480568465;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo dude i just realised THATS MY RABBIT
1575389;1480568475;asciilifeform;whos else's rabbit could it be.
1575390;1480568489;mircea_popescu;i guess huh
1575391;1480568513;BingoBoingo;lol Did cazalla ship it to you before or after slaughter?
1575392;1480568574;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo apparently not actually mine (  http://trilema.com/2012/in-atentia-igppa-autodenunt/ ). the tile got me confused.
1575393;1480568597;asciilifeform;looks quite similar .
1575394;1480568639;BingoBoingo;Classic Trilema, why not linked in the lazy libertard series?
1575395;1480568654;mircea_popescu;nfi.
1575396;1480568944;BingoBoingo;Big Corpus problems.
1575397;1480569011;mircea_popescu;gotta be.
1575398;1480569230;asciilifeform;'I thought that /dev/random (as opposed to /dev/urandom) was already based on entropy from physical noise, as recorded by sensors (I think including mouse, keyboard and temperature). Sounds like they're trying to make a big deal out of addressing a theoretical vulnerability, which is irrelevant in practice.' << glorious
1575399;1480569315;mircea_popescu;lol.
1575400;1480569440;mircea_popescu;what'll those dastardly terrorists think of next!
1575401;1480569502;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575383 << btw >> http://blackbox.poly.edu/geni/html/login >> 'SeattleGENI is now the Seattle Clearinghouse. New to Seattle? We suggest you first learn about Seattle before using Clearinghouse, a resource sharing website.'
1575402;1480569502;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 04:27 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A8567569490690A4A212DEEDF7809300A0F133264CEB4ED07E15261F5F26C5E4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1430...1817 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '128.238.63.50 (ssh-rsa key from 128.238.63.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blackbox.poly.edu. US NY)
1575403;1480569506;asciilifeform;^ motherland of ben_vulpes ?
1575404;1480569576;mircea_popescu;"learn about seattle" ? this whole "educating" libertard bullshit. it's not a town see, it's a seattle, you gotta "learn about windows" lest you approach it with reasonable expectations and methodologies. o no, you gotta first fuck your head into a seattleshape.
1575405;1480569581;mircea_popescu;nuts.
1575406;1480569594;asciilifeform;seattlification for dummiez!!11
1575407;1480569607;mircea_popescu;how about seattle learns about little fucking old me.
1575408;1480569815;mircea_popescu;and in other shitlord news,  http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/boards/g/img/0577/81/1480568792212.jpg
1575409;1480569859;asciilifeform;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/06/russia-racist-laser-obama_n_5656732.html << obligatory vintage butthurt re same ^
1575410;1480569942;mircea_popescu;"he's not really a monkey, he's just a sarin gas peddler"
1575411;1480569945;mircea_popescu;sound defense.
1575412;1480570200;mod6;NoSuchLabs: Congrats!
1575413;1480570204;asciilifeform;ty mod6
1575414;1480570254;mircea_popescu;now buy one!
1575415;1480570443;mod6;haha, i certainly will.  probably wont be order for a day or so... think you'll have enough to meet the demand?
1575416;1480570460;mod6;*be able to order
1575417;1480570475;mircea_popescu;that all depends on teh demand.
1575418;1480570484;mircea_popescu;but we'll fill the orders in order so.
1575419;1480570485;mod6;fair enough.
1575420;1480570495;*;asciilifeform has monumentally 0 idea how much demand.
1575421;1480570655;mircea_popescu;" I thought just moving your mouse or doing something on the computer already fills up /dev/random, and it's only a big problem on major servers. Is this not right?" << there's a SHOCKING amount of this. nsa's doing god's work with these people, absolutely.
1575422;1480570701;asciilifeform;nah you fill it up with... piss, y'see. 'tis why serious server has that little flap on top. pop, unzip, fill.
1575423;1480570745;asciilifeform;gotta wonder -- any of these folx ever generate gpg key..?
1575424;1480570914;mircea_popescu;sure, as part of their education at tu berlin.
1575425;1480571028;asciilifeform;aaaa yes
1575426;1480571294;*;asciilifeform switches on... air conditioner
1575427;1480571298;asciilifeform;yes, on dec. 1st.
1575428;1480571307;mircea_popescu;mine's been running all day.
1575429;1480571311;asciilifeform;well yes but.
1575430;1480571369;mircea_popescu;:p
1575431;1480571391;mircea_popescu;theoretically it's 15 celsisus in wash dc ?
1575432;1480571464;asciilifeform;aha
1575433;1480571477;mircea_popescu;wet huh. here too. exactly same temp, but 100% humidity.
1575434;1480571753;mircea_popescu;aaaand... we're sold out on the 1st batch o.O
1575435;1480571757;davout;mircea_popescu asciilifeform congratulations
1575436;1480571773;mod6;damnit.
1575437;1480571774;mircea_popescu;holy shit that was ... one hour at like 1am
1575438;1480571797;mircea_popescu;anyway. will be building tons so. put your order in we'll get to it.
1575439;1480571815;mod6;ok. bummed cause i just got the mailing shit all setup
1575440;1480571826;mircea_popescu;sorry mod6 ;/
1575441;1480571832;mircea_popescu;but i promise you you will not be left without k!
1575442;1480571834;mod6;but will place order tomorrow then proll.y
1575443;1480571840;mod6;kthx
1575444;1480571846;mircea_popescu;ty davout !
1575445;1480573542;BingoBoingo;December is already awesome
1575446;1480573721;mircea_popescu;truth.
1575447;1480573795;BingoBoingo;And thing's only 6 hours old
1575448;1480573914;mircea_popescu;uh. did the blockchain just fork ?!
1575449;1480573917;mircea_popescu;!~bcstats
1575450;1480573919;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Current Blocks: 441388 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 115 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1575451;1480573969;BingoBoingo;Maybe?
1575452;1480573987;mircea_popescu;441386 (Merkle Root  c8f8c5889e5d8d61c40f23cbb9b9e60a809c1d516a69834379aa68f7467d8857 Hash  000000000000000002e85349ac1deb78507a9d9a514ba2cd439c1a537c248c56 ) doesn't seem to verify.
1575453;1480574057;BingoBoingo;brb, sleep and panic
1575454;1480574070;mircea_popescu;da fuck is this new wonder.
1575455;1480574098;mircea_popescu;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks?height=441386 << ben_vulpes 's thing eats it up fine.
1575456;1480574137;mircea_popescu;anyway, i guess BingoBoingo has it. ima see what the girls are up to.
1575457;1480574158;BingoBoingo;!~step3
1575458;1480574158;jhvh1;3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
1575459;1480574165;BingoBoingo;Also, tits
1575460;1480574321;danielpbarron;!~bible proverbs 3:5
1575461;1480574322;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 3:5 :: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
1575462;1480574449;mircea_popescu;holy shit they broke bitcoin
1575463;1480574467;mircea_popescu;https://blockchain.info/tx/2ca768252bf2db0f9631a90275f8a4580f8d1f4b692da571354e12954e7bd462 << nonstandard subsidy txn
1575464;1480574754;mircea_popescu;bullshit btcc pool "oh we'll be creative and send 2.5 cents to a buncha addresses" psssh.
1575465;1480575007;mircea_popescu;anyway. legacy prb clients need >10 minutes to disentangle that sorta shit fwiw.
1575466;1480578641;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-441363.txt
1575467;1480587582;thestringpuller;court ruled against Coinbase favor. IRS to get 2 years of Bitcoin user records and identities
1575468;1480594712;mircea_popescu;well at least coinbase did everything to protect its users /s
1575469;1480596196;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-november-2016-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2016 Statement
1575470;1480596440;mircea_popescu;jurov added.
1575471;1480597010;shinohai;!~later tell mod6 V is not including the the privkey vpatch during sync, has it not been added to site yet? (Building the new thing you posted last night)
1575472;1480597011;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1575473;1480597041;mircea_popescu;!~bcstats
1575474;1480597042;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Current Blocks: 441432 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 71 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 35 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1575475;1480597156;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun see any unusual wedge
1575476;1480597194;asciilifeform;( though zoolag is blackholed, it is not unusual, sits like this half the time )
1575477;1480597221;asciilifeform;dulap is at 441430 with 18 users
1575478;1480597221;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the conclusion is, 2k+ txn blocks took significant time on old clients ; and this made them exceed the 10min magic delay and trip an alert.
1575479;1480597230;asciilifeform;aaaah lul alert
1575480;1480597233;mircea_popescu;last block is 441432 ftr.
1575481;1480597238;mircea_popescu;you're two behind.
1575482;1480597257;asciilifeform;trb is very often 2-7 behind
1575483;1480597264;mircea_popescu;not ben_vulpes' !
1575484;1480597276;*;mircea_popescu is becoming very impressed with mimi's brunhr!
1575485;1480597366;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28ED0A651B3CF9434A08A486D6073700042996FE39715688490B8245C1E17A74 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2203...4973 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.88.54.2 (ssh-rsa key from 85.88.54.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.blanquart.com. BE)
1575486;1480597366;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A9596A947316B01B3CE306D21FD40C79BB509337CA019E9FA0C3F3B47C42565D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...3779 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '65.111.164.90 (ssh-rsa key from 65.111.164.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (90-164-111-65.serverpronto.com. US FL)
1575487;1480597578;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the final solution, incidentally, is parallel-verify. but we dun have it yet
1575488;1480597600;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1575489;1480597622;asciilifeform;largely because of the 'don't clean the air filter' tale mircea_popescu told asciilifeform et al on the shore in buenos aires
1575490;1480597699;asciilifeform;but also because of the global-locks-everywhere horror in the thing, it is nontrivial to parallelize anything therein.
1575491;1480597713;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1575492;1480597724;mircea_popescu;still a good candidate for the next city's hill.
1575493;1480597883;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/RLgFr/?raw=true
1575494;1480597962;mircea_popescu;"Whenever I got a team ready to be really useful, there would be a bizarre negative reaction from all sorts of other people who were employed within the same organizations, but were not part of the teams I was working with. Sometimes this effect was so strong it could become a workplace hazard, and it always grew until the teams themselves were no longer able to function." <<< mediocrity is not a lack of intelligence, it is i
1575495;1480597962;mircea_popescu;ntelligence entirely dedicated to the task of survival.
1575496;1480598122;jurov;S.QNTR distributed.
1575497;1480598919;asciilifeform;what is the source for the quote mircea_popescu ?
1575498;1480599011;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575316
1575499;1480599011;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 01:01 adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575187 << first log appearance for this, led me to http://www.the-programmers-stone.com/about which makes two preposterous claims in one sentence before i've even scrolled down once: "I discovered that (almost) everyone can become a super-programmer, and with a crew of super-programmers, gelled teams form up naturally."
1575500;1480599082;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HPNVT/?raw=true
1575501;1480599298;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Z5xFD/?raw=true
1575502;1480599324;mircea_popescu;my mind's eye foresees a time when all comms will consist of this. gossipd over irc!
1575503;1480599820;asciilifeform;http://65.111.164.90/apache2-default/ << lel, 'what shall i do today... oh, i know, build a box with DIDDLED DEBIAN and then leave it running on DEFAULT knobs!111 for years'
1575504;1480600163;mircea_popescu;lol. i guess if anyone needed hosting...
1575505;1480601147;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A4D0A43B8105A91195E7C706247E4DE8EED21304BD3EAE7A68DD9052BCBF093 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1630...1167 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '161.246.34.121 (ssh-rsa key from 161.246.34.121 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blue86.crsc.kmitl.ac.th. TH)
1575506;1480602161;asciilifeform;King Mongkut's Institute of Technology << lel
1575507;1480603346;asciilifeform;https://media.8ch.net/file_store/25dda0c2ebe8121b92b66da5f54a83f9a1b41fa2c22721fde9fa92090d41b18d.png << from last night's heathen pit excursions
1575508;1480605522;jurov;deedbot: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20161201/attachment.txt?sha1=3ebec7e118a9f69ad2fe87574a11430a955fae9e
1575509;1480605578;jurov;!!deed http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20161201/attachment.txt?sha1=3ebec7e118a9f69ad2fe87574a11430a955fae9e
1575510;1480605618;deedbot;accepted: 1
1575511;1480605664;mod6;shinohai: yeah, for now, it's just in the email.  you can just grab the attachments and place them where they belong.  i'll place them both in the mirror at some point, not too long
1575512;1480605691;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> https://blockchain.info/tx/2ca768252bf2db0f9631a90275f8a4580f8d1f4b692da571354e12954e7bd462 << nonstandard subsidy txn << motherfuckers.
1575513;1480605933;mod6;thanks jurov
1575514;1480606008;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A9596A947316B01B3CE306D21FD40C79BB509337CA019E9FA0C3F3B47C42565D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1405...0513 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '65.111.164.90 (ssh-rsa key from 65.111.164.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (90-164-111-65.serverpronto.com. US FL)
1575515;1480606008;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A4D0A43B8105A91195E7C706247E4DE8EED21304BD3EAE7A68DD9052BCBF093 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1454...1553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '161.246.34.121 (ssh-rsa key from 161.246.34.121 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blue86.crsc.kmitl.ac.th. TH)
1575516;1480606008;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28ED0A651B3CF9434A08A486D6073700042996FE39715688490B8245C1E17A74 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.88.54.2 (ssh-rsa key from 85.88.54.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.blanquart.com. BE)
1575517;1480606132;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-05#1553299 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575375 << :D :D :D :D
1575518;1480606132;a111;Logged on 2016-10-05 17:22 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-05#1553270 << I would buy an in-WoT RNG yesterday.
1575519;1480606132;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 04:11 mircea_popescu: and in other news : http://nosuchlabs.com/ << can now order FUCKGOATS
1575520;1480606136;trinque;WOOOOOOO!
1575521;1480606160;*;trinque will be placing an order soon
1575522;1480606372;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575516 <<< >>> https://4ic.be >> ' Eusip bvba - Thunderbox.net | Serveman 1.3' >> http://www.thunderbox.net >> wat
1575523;1480606372;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 15:26 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28ED0A651B3CF9434A08A486D6073700042996FE39715688490B8245C1E17A74 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.88.54.2 (ssh-rsa key from 85.88.54.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.blanquart.com. BE)
1575524;1480606429;asciilifeform;'Eusip Bvba is the independent and autonomous company behind the projects RACK66 and former projects as Thunderbox and FragFun. The company was founded in 2003 by Internetpioneers who know the market very well and felt the need for a new kind of concept for services as: hosting, housing, managed services, pre installed servers and online gaming....'
1575525;1480606439;asciilifeform;Internetpioneers!111111111111
1575526;1480606508;shinohai;No worries mod6 ..... the new patch did fine, nice work getting that out so quickly
1575527;1480606524;asciilifeform;http://www.internetsociety.be/portal.php?pagina=isoc_vicechair.htm << related.
1575528;1480607489;asciilifeform;unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel
1575529;1480607510;asciilifeform;(this is a ЕГГОГ and does 0 but shows up in a lulzlog)
1575530;1480607580;shinohai;Maybe they need an rng to generate a key first. >.>
1575531;1480607597;asciilifeform;lel but you don't need a key of your own
1575532;1480607618;asciilifeform;to use the snsa ordertron
1575533;1480607674;asciilifeform;(idiot pgp still needs 256 rng bits for aes session keys, when transmitting, and this is own can of lolworms)
1575534;1480607735;shinohai;I have a whole btctalk thread regarding peoples lack of following simple instructions.
1575535;1480607743;trinque;see: planet earth
1575536;1480607758;asciilifeform;likely there is also certain amount of 'here's a button, what happens if i press'
1575537;1480607769;trinque;asciilifeform: congrats on shipping your first product !
1575538;1480607779;trinque;as No Such Labs anyway.
1575539;1480607813;asciilifeform;trinque: ty. but this is a pre-order, the actual widgets have not left factory yet.
1575540;1480607835;trinque;a ok
1575541;1480607843;asciilifeform;(they are , i am told, being packaged for shipment as we speak )
1575542;1480607923;mod6;shinohai: the rawtx one or the privkey_tools ?
1575543;1480607938;shinohai;mod6: rawtx patch
1575544;1480607960;mod6;cool. we'll have to discuss some testing scenarios later today or whatever.
1575545;1480608011;shinohai;Yes I haven't done much with it yet besides verify the bitcoind snarfs blocks and that the flag produces a message
1575546;1480608718;mod6;thanks!
1575547;1480608723;mod6;:]
1575548;1480610985;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575340 << buildroot exclusively generates linux binaries, so any bsd build has to be done manually. but fwiw my openbsd patch still works and still produces a working trb
1575549;1480610985;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 01:52 mod6: shinohai: well, at one point the one patch we had made that possible, but with buildroot now in the mix, im not sure.  would have to be dug into.
1575550;1480611009;trinque;phf: where's that patch at btw?
1575551;1480611033;asciilifeform;buildroot, at least as seen in 'rotor', is not necessary on bsd!! there is no glibc there !! afaik static linking works normally on known bsd
1575552;1480611061;asciilifeform;buildroot as i used it here, was a pill against drepperism
1575553;1480611072;asciilifeform;so as to build static, musltronic binary.
1575554;1480611074;phf;asciilifeform: oh so it doesn't crosscompile? i though buildroot explicitly builds all own gcc and family etc
1575555;1480611079;asciilifeform;on linux. where otherwise it dun go.
1575556;1480611107;phf;trinque: i'm wondering myself :D i thought it's on btcbase, but apparently not
1575557;1480611115;asciilifeform;phf: in principle it ought to work on bsd etc. but will shit out a linux binary, unless you were to fiddle with it rather heavily. but i do not see why to do this.
1575558;1480611154;asciilifeform;is musl necessary on *bsd ?? i have nfi, but did think that bsd's libc were mostly sane
1575559;1480611171;asciilifeform;(and certainly static-able)
1575560;1480611172;phf;oh i misunderstood your original sentence, yeah, we are on the same page
1575561;1480611198;phf;i think bsd patch might predate v
1575562;1480611206;asciilifeform;phf's definitely does
1575563;1480611225;asciilifeform;iirc he also had a mac patch
1575564;1480611298;mod6;yeah, it predates v im sure. i'll dig up the email...
1575565;1480611380;asciilifeform;tbh i do not have a clear picture of what use a trb-on-mac might be to anyone, given as the thing needs to be up 24/7 for any practical battlefield value
1575566;1480611396;phf;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000118.html
1575567;1480611398;mod6;I think it was this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000118.html
1575568;1480611400;asciilifeform;perhaps - just for testing, some folx might be stuck on crapple for whatever reason.
1575569;1480611406;mod6;phf beat me. lol.
1575570;1480611406;shinohai;lol
1575571;1480611474;asciilifeform;'of note, previously static compilation on OpenBSD resulted in segmentation fault. this is due to libpthread not being fully linked into the final static binary...' << what did this dig lead to , phf  ?
1575572;1480611483;asciilifeform;is openbsd in fact 'drepperized' after all ?
1575573;1480611503;phf;asciilifeform: no, it's a gcc bug that's present on all systems
1575574;1480611515;phf;i think it only manifests on openbsd
1575575;1480611515;asciilifeform;i gotta wonder what else, and where else, is 'not fully statically linkable' and where.
1575576;1480611628;phf;asciilifeform: https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52590#c4 (the last comment)
1575577;1480611633;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform internet prion-eers from 2003.
1575578;1480611645;mircea_popescu;i'm a fucking pioneer, been doing it since the last millenium!
1575579;1480611694;asciilifeform;phf: lemme get this straight, ~all~ pthread proggies hosed on openbsd?!
1575580;1480611712;asciilifeform;(at least such as are built on gcc ..?)
1575581;1480611729;*;asciilifeform blows dust off openbsd 'libretto'
1575582;1480611767;asciilifeform;and btw holy FUCK is that thing slow. SLOW. in the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300 sense. i can literally feel every disk write.
1575583;1480611844;phf;asciilifeform: ~on all systems~ ~static linking~ of pthread is ~not guaranteed~ to work
1575584;1480611865;asciilifeform;i dun think i have ever visited the mighty land of Guaranteed To Work
1575585;1480611877;asciilifeform;it lies far away, across seven seas, or so i heard.
1575586;1480611895;phf;"On some Linux distributions libpthread.a
1575587;1480611896;phf;has all the objects linked together with ld -r and therefore this will just work there, on others you need -Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" (from comment)
1575588;1480612087;phf;researching the problem i came across a lot of "my static linked openbsd program just crashes! ... ... -lpthread ... ...", but also a handful of linux ones
1575589;1480612097;asciilifeform;and speaking of shitware, https://archive.is/91uFx ( moar detail -- https://archive.is/0Dxzi ) -- memory corruption 'oops' in linux kernel ipv6 stack.
1575590;1480612110;asciilifeform;Just Say No to ipv6.
1575591;1480612180;asciilifeform;phf: crash how, at warmup, or randomly as it goes ?
1575592;1480612198;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575521 << with any luck it'll come in before 2nd batch is spoken for lol
1575593;1480612198;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 15:29 trinque will be placing an order soon
1575594;1480612212;mircea_popescu;i had no idea what hotcakes means prior to FUCKGOATS
1575595;1480612252;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575528 << it should just work!
1575596;1480612252;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 15:51 asciilifeform: unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel
1575597;1480612326;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575533 << very much this.
1575598;1480612326;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 15:54 asciilifeform: (idiot pgp still needs 256 rng bits for aes session keys, when transmitting, and this is own can of lolworms)
1575599;1480612372;shinohai;Sad, I really did like the blockcypher api:   http://archive.is/AYrGQ
1575600;1480612378;phf;asciilifeform: that's a good question, i haven't isolated the bug, but i'm pretty sure on openbsd crashes instantaneously. note that c++ threads are involved, so perhaps they try to initialize things even before you start using them?
1575601;1480612426;phf;ooh fuckgoats
1575602;1480612445;mircea_popescu;lol
1575603;1480612450;mircea_popescu;it's FUCKGOATS!!1
1575604;1480612469;phf;asciilifeform: is usb convertable to rs-232 with a ~limited~ application of soldering iron?
1575605;1480612477;asciilifeform;lower-case fuckgoats are simply goats, such that are supplied to bagram airbase for the troops to fuck.
1575606;1480612489;asciilifeform;phf: nein, read the doc, the head comes off
1575607;1480612515;asciilifeform;(subj device speaks ordinary rs232 at TTL voltage, gets converted to the desired end by standard dongle)
1575608;1480612531;asciilifeform;at no point is usb converted to anything.
1575609;1480612566;mircea_popescu;are pthreads even a good thing ?
1575610;1480612708;asciilifeform;they're part of the 'grandfather's pistol'.
1575611;1480612719;asciilifeform;(and ~every other old pistol we have)
1575612;1480612821;asciilifeform;phf: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/heads.jpg : two example usb heads (battery for scale strictly)
1575613;1480612848;phf;sos tinys
1575614;1480612851;asciilifeform;(the rs232 db-9 serial heads are not here yet, crate should be in shortly )
1575615;1480612868;asciilifeform;the pictured converters are quite common and the folks who played with 'pogo' already have some.
1575616;1480612899;asciilifeform;original design of FUCKGOATS featured on-board usb. was removed quite deliberately.
1575617;1480612914;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574497 << yup
1575618;1480612914;a111;Logged on 2016-11-29 14:36 mircea_popescu: speaking of above article, can i get a commitment to never signing any V material which includes any non-ascii characters ? BingoBoingo diana_coman hanbot trinque mod6 danielpbarron mircea_popescu mike_c asciilifeform davout ben_vulpes phf jurov
1575619;1480612923;asciilifeform;perhaps this is a good time and place to say why. in short -- specificity-of-diddling theorem.
1575620;1480612940;phf;it's a right and proper design
1575621;1480612954;asciilifeform;the only usb-speaking ICs on the market with no PERSISTENT FLASH STATE are all usb-to-rs232ttl converters anyway
1575622;1480612959;phf;(i finished the docs)
1575623;1480612961;asciilifeform;so why bother to pay to have it soldered to the board.
1575624;1480612967;asciilifeform;it lives separately.
1575625;1480612982;asciilifeform;and comes from wherever you like, incl. the back of your desk drawer
1575626;1480613003;asciilifeform;(they've been around since late 1990s when usb became common, in one form or another)
1575627;1480613073;asciilifeform;again, in case this was not clear, the two boards pictured are consumer products, sold for 1-3 $ / ea. just about anywhere.
1575628;1480613240;asciilifeform;elsewhere,
1575629;1480613244;asciilifeform;'Amongst some people, such confusion has been elevated to a philosophical ideology. I once watched a very lost group working near to me, who had spent months trying to print out a graph. It was all very complicated for them. Eventually they decided to purchase a third party graph drawing component, which advertised that it could print out graphs. After considerable administration they obtained a binary library, which they were not th
1575630;1480613244;asciilifeform;en able to link. One day it became apparent that the component extended a base class of the Qt graphics toolkit, while their program used MFC. Foolishly, I ventured to suggest that if the base class wasn’t available, a derived class couldn’t be linked to it. One of the workers informed me that this was “my opinion”. I should have left it alone, I know. But I used to work in a useful industry. I explained that it was a simple
1575631;1480613244;asciilifeform;fact that if the base library dependency isn’t there, the component can’t link to it. He looked at me and said, “There are no facts, there are only opinions, and all opinions are equal.” ...'
1575632;1480613252;asciilifeform;^ from phf / adlai / mircea_popescu 's link earlier
1575633;1480613262;asciilifeform;i gotta wonder, how come i never met these folx.
1575634;1480613276;asciilifeform;the 'missing library cannot be linked -- is merely OPINION' people.
1575635;1480613300;asciilifeform;do they live anywhere outside of caricature ? normally dysfunction is more subtle.
1575636;1480613440;asciilifeform;1st line of subj article , 'For decades we have known that some people are 25 times more productive than most in software engineering jobs. ...' is correct, but the remaining article gets the cause/effect relationship backwards
1575637;1480613452;jurov;i guess they specialize to very different niches of govt ecosystem than alf
1575638;1480613497;asciilifeform;folx who WANT to do the thing they are doing -- or at least have genuine desire to hold in their hands the end result, $widget, $proggy , and not merely the week's paycheque -- give the impression of the '25x productive'
1575639;1480613520;asciilifeform;and where they are found, they are kept in comfortable conditions, or even spared the idiocy of commuting to offices etc.
1575640;1480613541;asciilifeform;elsewhere, in butugychags, folx doing things no sane person would voluntarily consider doing, are, yes, warehoused, as author describes
1575641;1480613564;asciilifeform;but giving ~them~ soundproof boxes etc. simply results on moar tetris-man-hours.
1575642;1480613587;asciilifeform;i thought this was known to pretty much everyone in the field since... '70s..? but apparently not
1575643;1480613625;asciilifeform;see also mircea_popescu's thread about the filipino bordello, with the 400 beds.
1575644;1480613721;jurov;sorry, pls what was that "25 times more productive" link? somwhow can't find it in the log
1575645;1480613766;jurov;ahh http://the-programmers-stone.com/about/
1575646;1480613771;asciilifeform;yes
1575647;1480613788;asciilifeform;pretty typical 'mistreated programmers' piece
1575648;1480614114;asciilifeform;i find it interesting that the authors of these (and there are many) virtually never mention even approx. ~what~ their 'super team' of 'super people' was DOING
1575649;1480614120;asciilifeform;as if it were not at all relevant...
1575650;1480614223;asciilifeform;( and what precisely could be a motivation, in moribund american megacorp where 'proverbial' programmer always seems to work, to 'super' ? 1% bonus ? to be fired three months later than the next-best team ? better potato ration ? which..? )
1575651;1480614349;phf;when i said "programmers stone" i meant papers published by blog's author in 97 or so, which are very vague and speculative but had some interesting ideas about programming. most references to subj in oldfag circles result in "oh yeaaah i member" reaction. the blog has not much to do with original
1575652;1480614382;phf;http://www.programmersstone.com are the original, and c2 discussion http://wiki.c2.com/?ProgrammersStone
1575653;1480614382;asciilifeform;phf: happen to have a preserved copy of any of these ?
1575654;1480614406;ben_vulpes;congrats on FUCKGOATS, asciilifeform!
1575655;1480614411;asciilifeform;ty ben_vulpes
1575656;1480614430;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes already owns 1/3 (by mass...) of a complete unit !1111
1575657;1480614601;ben_vulpes;tru tru
1575658;1480614606;asciilifeform;phf: lol, it was same d00d as the infamous 'mappers and packers' thing?!!
1575659;1480614620;ben_vulpes;and a pike of entropy sitting in the corner
1575660;1480614624;ben_vulpes;pile*
1575661;1480614661;phf;asciilifeform: it ~is~ the infamous mappers and packers thing, m&p is first chapter
1575662;1480614670;asciilifeform;aaaah
1575663;1480614710;asciilifeform;related http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1523702
1575664;1480614710;a111;Logged on 2016-08-18 01:24 mircea_popescu: I blame Eric Raymond and to a lesser extent Dave Winer for bringing this kind of schlock writing onto the Internet. Raymond is the original perpetrator of the "what is a hacker?" essay, in which you quickly begin to understand that a hacker is someone who resembles Eric Raymond. Dave Winer has recently and mercifully moved his essays off to audio, but you can still hear him snorfling cashew nuts and talking at length about wh
1575665;1480614885;asciilifeform;asciilifeform refers to this genre of writing as '10th-dimension', after infamous pseudoscientific b00k/www by same name, which consisted of highly refined 'imponade' (to borrow naggum's) , that is, writing designed to pull the reader's intellectual cock and give a sensation of 'profound insight', 'yes, NAO i UNDERSTAND FIZZZIX!' or similar.
1575666;1480614913;asciilifeform;'it ALL falls into place!1'
1575667;1480614943;phf;well, yeah, it's cybermysticism :) follows a long tradition that well predates eric raymond
1575668;1480614988;asciilifeform;important ingredient is the lack of mathematical or any other pre-requisite that a reader might lack and thereby stumble, or provoke feeling of inferiority
1575669;1480615009;asciilifeform;reader must feel 'on the throne' merely by act of reading.
1575670;1480615096;phf;i would've prefered criticism that involved quotes (since there are plenty of things to make fun of), rather than a somehwat off mark general trash talking
1575671;1480615155;asciilifeform;quote of 'programmer stone' ? we had a number of these earlier in thread ?
1575672;1480615157;asciilifeform;or some other work
1575673;1480615195;phf;those quotes are from blog, not the original site
1575674;1480615206;phf;earlier in thread that is
1575675;1480615206;asciilifeform;so where can i see original site
1575676;1480615213;phf;i just linked it to you ffs
1575677;1480615221;asciilifeform;that was c2 page on subj, no ?
1575678;1480615230;asciilifeform;there was not an earlier document ?
1575679;1480615246;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575652
1575680;1480615246;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 17:46 phf: http://www.programmersstone.com are the original, and c2 discussion http://wiki.c2.com/?ProgrammersStone
1575681;1480615259;asciilifeform;aah
1575682;1480615460;phf;but anyway, the reason why i mentioned it, and the one thing of value that i derived from progstone is the idea of stess addiction. i'm not sure about the mechanism that he proposes, but identifying and neutralizing sources of needless stress served me well for many years since i read it
1575683;1480615485;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had a pretty good handle on subj, though i have misplaced the relevant piece. the one where he described two basic outcomes of the traditional western crippling of schoolchildren, and they roughly correspond to the 'mapper' and 'packer' portrayed here, and in 'bipolar lisp programmer', and other similar essays.
1575684;1480615522;asciilifeform;phf: stands to reason that if adrenergic dopes are addictive, likewise so would be ordinary adrenaline
1575685;1480615563;phf;also made me rather mistrustful of a lot of "hacker culture" elements, like too much coffee, night hacking, after hour sprints, weekend hacking, all things that i've confirmed from experience to contributing to atrocious code
1575686;1480615657;asciilifeform;the 'culture' was, as i gather, never actually ~about~ the code, but... about the coffee; the shared deathmarches; the dope; the sensory deprivation bottles; the 'scene'; and other pretenses.
1575687;1480615678;asciilifeform;the code - was incidental. which is why it today is going the way of the snake's legs, or the f35's wings and engine.
1575688;1480615686;asciilifeform;hence 'gender git commits'
1575689;1480615946;asciilifeform;briefly revisiting upstack, imho 'mapper' and 'packer' as depicted in the essays are only 'types of people' in the sense that there were two types of inmate at auschwitz - folx who immediately jumped the fence and died on the wire, and ones who 'checked out' and turned 'Muselmann' ;
1575690;1480615996;asciilifeform;two different reactions to being killed with boredom -- daydream and gabriel_laddel around ('mapper') -- or, alternatively, -- 'mindless robot' ('packer'), typical caricature of 'cube dweller', 'dilbert'.
1575691;1480616133;asciilifeform;only the latter, notably, results in the inmate/employee being of some residual use to his owner, so 'corporate culture' is unsurprisingly built around utilization of this type, and the speedy ejection of the other one.
1575692;1480616136;asciilifeform;because how else.
1575693;1480616137;phf;i always thought that kind of classification is "people like me and people not like me", but i like your take too.
1575694;1480616154;asciilifeform;i cannot speak for other inmates, but i have lived as both of these animals.
1575695;1480616171;asciilifeform;and because of this, have difficulty picturing them as fixed 'types' from birth.
1575696;1480616220;phf;well also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575207
1575697;1480616220;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i must disagree, i was quite close to, e.g., 'v', for very long time before finally wrote it.
1575698;1480616242;asciilifeform;how's that plug in ?
1575699;1480616338;phf;the first part of writing happens in a mapper mode, i.e. daydreaming for lack of better word before any kind of code is actually written, second in packer i.e. actual typing. that's also when cocaine/caffeine/aderal might help
1575700;1480616347;asciilifeform;'packing', and brute labour of whatever other kind, also can have sensation of 'inch away', read the tales of athletes in training, alpinists, pilots.
1575701;1480616378;asciilifeform;and aha, 'inca marching powders' etc.
1575702;1480616397;asciilifeform;but quite destructive to folx who are doing equivalent of ~planning~ the march
1575703;1480616433;asciilifeform;which is why i said to laddel 'dope requires discipline', because a lone programmer in a cellar is both general and soldier
1575704;1480616434;phf;plan with vodka, execute with cocaine -- stalin
1575705;1480616438;asciilifeform;^
1575706;1480616453;asciilifeform;or, i will add for completeness, both -- sober. also worx for some folx.
1575707;1480616469;asciilifeform;but quite certainly not 'vodka -- vodka' or 'cocaine -- cocaine'
1575708;1480616473;asciilifeform;these -- proven failure.
1575709;1480616493;asciilifeform;'cocaine -- vodka' gives you usg.
1575710;1480616503;asciilifeform;also undesirable combination.
1575711;1480616557;shinohai;!~tslb
1575712;1480616559;jhvh1;shinohai: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
1575713;1480616596;phf;haha, most definitely. cocaine is all the upper echelons (the drug of choice on capitol hill), alcohol is for the grunts. aspiring managers notably prefer vodka redbulls are a nodick compromise
1575714;1480616605;phf;*as a
1575715;1480616612;trinque;who is this person that felt like they could figure things out on cocaine? then later saw that they in fact, had.
1575716;1480616642;*;trinque has advocated various dopes in the past solely because they were fun, like camping is fun, but I don't write code camping either. I camp.
1575717;1480616657;asciilifeform;trinque: probably the folx who erdos for decade on single 100g bottle of it and will take secret to the grave.
1575718;1480616667;asciilifeform;and take it every other month.
1575719;1480616681;*;trinque is not particularly addiction prone
1575720;1480616709;trinque;smokes for bit, stops cold one day. same experience with the powdery one.
1575721;1480616727;trinque;still didn't feel superhuman on either; more like excited dog that has to sniff everything in a loop
1575722;1480616733;phf;i'd like to mention that sherlock holmes used cocaine ~only~ in between cases
1575723;1480616867;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes danke.
1575724;1480616952;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575483 << yeah mine is rarely even 1 behind, frequently ahead of bc.info and frenz
1575725;1480616952;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 13:01 mircea_popescu: not ben_vulpes' !
1575726;1480616992;asciilifeform;phf: i distinctly recall ~one~ case where he injects while thinking
1575727;1480617045;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575631 << mandatory link to " It was impressive in a way to see Protagoras's sophism alive and well after 2500 years." http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/arsdigita-greenspun.html
1575728;1480617045;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 17:27 asciilifeform: fact that if the base library dependency isn’t there, the component can’t link to it. He looked at me and said, “There are no facts, there are only opinions, and all opinions are equal.” ...'
1575729;1480617117;asciilifeform;!!up gabriel_laddel
1575730;1480617117;deedbot;gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
1575731;1480617134;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575637 << alf also isn't exactly a social butterfly.
1575732;1480617134;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 17:30 jurov: i guess they specialize to very different niches of govt ecosystem than alf
1575733;1480617142;ben_vulpes;one of the few psyochoactive experiments left on my list is the eyedropper bottle of cocaine/alcohol solution
1575734;1480617161;shinohai;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven-Per-Cent_Solution   <<< Holmes later went to Dr. Sigmund Freud's rehab clinic in Vienna
1575735;1480617161;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes you ever examined the nasal septum of long term coke whore ?
1575736;1480617168;*;asciilifeform not even very serious antisocial butterfly !
1575737;1480617170;gabriel_laddel;ben_vulpes: why this vs. in soda?
1575738;1480617198;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: indeed have, why do you ask?
1575739;1480617199;jurov;ben_vulpes: already tried eyedropping tobacco extract? not very psychoactive but very purifying instead
1575740;1480617204;asciilifeform;for the cocaethylene ?
1575741;1480617215;mircea_popescu;because i can't conceive why'd you want to do  that to your cornea.
1575742;1480617231;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel: there's a metabolite that comes out when digestion booze and coke together
1575743;1480617237;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: nah, traditional oral application
1575744;1480617258;mircea_popescu;oh, eyedropper on tongue ?
1575745;1480617261;ben_vulpes;good idea though! i've dropped many a dose of 'acid' into 'friends' eyeballs.
1575746;1480617264;*;mircea_popescu sees eyedropper, expects eye.
1575747;1480617269;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: or even more dilute, through a whole cocktail
1575748;1480617269;mircea_popescu;(this is how hitler got his, famously)
1575749;1480617272;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: coca-cola, not booze...
1575750;1480617273;ben_vulpes;OCD TITRATION
1575751;1480617281;gabriel_laddel_p;but it seems we are on the same page.
1575752;1480617303;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: according to morrel, the fuhrer took his 'vitamins' injected every morning and at lunch
1575753;1480617304;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: it is the poor modern americans resynthesis of the original coke + booze cocktails
1575754;1480617304;asciilifeform;iirc.
1575755;1480617338;mircea_popescu;i seem to recall an eyedropped thing, but w/e ianae
1575756;1480617345;gabriel_laddel_p;I cannot currently up myself, but have registered a new key for gabriel_laddel_p
1575757;1480617346;trinque;and he was just about to win the war, even!
1575758;1480617357;asciilifeform;!!key gabriel_laddel_p
1575759;1480617359;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/hybg6/?raw=true
1575760;1480617371;trinque;neato
1575761;1480617373;ben_vulpes;lol what is that a lisp predicate joke gabriel_laddel_p ?
1575762;1480617376;mircea_popescu;gabriel_laddel_p so is this actually going to be your key or are you gonna lose it in six weeks ?
1575763;1480617392;asciilifeform;!!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 possibly == gabriel_laddel
1575764;1480617394;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/IgeET/?raw=true
1575765;1480617400;gabriel_laddel_p;mircea_popescu: I'm going to recover my old key, sign this one.
1575766;1480617405;mircea_popescu;alright.
1575767;1480617431;asciilifeform;!!v B87AE47F1D988F4D67F9D1552817CBF74A7458EC771E28481318FC165A4D85F0
1575768;1480617431;deedbot;asciilifeform rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << possibly == gabriel_laddel
1575769;1480617452;shinohai;Lamport parachute or it didn't happen.
1575770;1480617458;mircea_popescu;!!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 Crazed Cali Kid, but at least banging his head against a goldmine rather than a brick wall.
1575771;1480617459;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/aM9Mf/?raw=true
1575772;1480617473;asciilifeform;shinohai: d00d ejected, it seems, without a parachute.
1575773;1480617494;mircea_popescu;!!v CADE8827752416FE04C18CBB70886AE4B6573C376EE93B81A4FA771DCFE2ABE9
1575774;1480617494;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << Crazed Cali Kid, but at least banging his head against a goldmine rather than a brick wall.
1575775;1480617518;trinque;!!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 will replace with old rating when key ownership is proved
1575776;1480617520;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/KFFVA/?raw=true
1575777;1480617532;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: next you get a postbox
1575778;1480617544;trinque;!!v 96533527176896B9F4A475C5B768571233BAC59F4CF81F8F856087FD87EA6855
1575779;1480617544;deedbot;trinque rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << will replace with old rating when key ownership is proved
1575780;1480617547;mircea_popescu;first we take manhattan...
1575781;1480617555;mircea_popescu;THEN WE TAKE BERLIN!
1575782;1480617563;*;asciilifeform was going to say !111 ^
1575783;1480617570;asciilifeform;BERLIN, FRITZES!11
1575784;1480617616;asciilifeform;( speaking of this, almost let this slip by! http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575332 << poor decimation ! )
1575785;1480617616;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 01:42 shinohai: This may be the best story I have seen all day: Former gay porn actor turned German spy arrested for secretly being a Jihadist http://archive.is/9SQqY
1575786;1480617638;asciilifeform;^ for some reason i picture the protagonist of subj as him !
1575787;1480617662;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575648 << this is because you are invited to bond. girls bitching to other girls about their bfs ALSO don't actually say what they're doing.
1575788;1480617662;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 17:41 asciilifeform: i find it interesting that the authors of these (and there are many) virtually never mention even approx. ~what~ their 'super team' of 'super people' was DOING
1575789;1480617696;asciilifeform;they assume that 'everyone does same thing'
1575790;1480617705;asciilifeform;so it gets #include'd
1575791;1480617780;mircea_popescu;not even. they assume that everyone's an imbecile, and therefore will discuss what's said. so if they tell you about the money they spent you'll discuss money spent and if they tell you about his abs you'll discuss abs.
1575792;1480617790;mircea_popescu;because nobody has any shade of completeness left anywhere.
1575793;1480617805;mircea_popescu;and consequently : he simply does not want it to be a discussion about that, so he doesn't mention it.
1575794;1480617825;asciilifeform;perhaps it was a mistake to teach pigs to speak.
1575795;1480617827;mircea_popescu;he doesn't even realise that this is moo-ing for moo-ers, not discourse for people.
1575796;1480617839;asciilifeform;cows - also.
1575797;1480617889;mircea_popescu;the sad fact of the matter is that the brain is not a reasoning engine. in a very purely naturalistic, bio-logical way, this is sensible. the practice of "talk to the text, not context or subtext" has become established through moo practice
1575798;1480617896;mircea_popescu;much like the meaning of "established" itself.
1575799;1480617921;asciilifeform;no more than legs are ballet engine
1575800;1480617935;mircea_popescu;no, legs actually are ballet engine.
1575801;1480617954;mircea_popescu;brain is not reasoning engine in the sense rectum is not vagina.
1575802;1480617981;asciilifeform;it is why asciilifeform is sympathetic to the 'gabriel_laddel's dope' pov : the degree of contortion involved in serious engineering , mentally, is every bit as much a self-abuse as to take any known dope
1575803;1480617990;asciilifeform;brain - does not go along willingly.
1575804;1480617991;mircea_popescu;the recent trilema byline about mediocrity conversely states "there is no perversity other than thinking"
1575805;1480618023;trinque;asciilifeform: what is this external thing that the brain wont go along with willingly?
1575806;1480618027;asciilifeform;actually mediocrity ~does~ consist of the places to which brain goes willingly.
1575807;1480618033;mircea_popescu;quite.
1575808;1480618064;mircea_popescu;trinque the structure of representation qua representation does not particularly match the structure of reality qua reality.
1575809;1480618065;asciilifeform;trinque: think back to own education, childhood
1575810;1480618135;trinque;I was the kid who voraciously wanted to learn, ended up tiring of starving, went wandering in the woods for food.
1575811;1480618155;trinque;it is a strange creature that resists learning, or work.
1575812;1480618206;mircea_popescu;consider the illustrative case of physics. newtonian mechanics (representation structured as representation) is valuable because a) it works in representative terms, ie, math and b) matches observable reality. but there is no objective relation between a and b, which is why science fiction can exist for instance ; and also why the only thing that can be said about nm is that it's ... not correct.
1575813;1480618213;mircea_popescu;same holds for nm v2.0 aka qm.
1575814;1480618254;mircea_popescu;none of this is much more than observing that you know, "in theory there's no difference between theory and practice..." ie, the represented difference between representation and reality reduces to a representation.
1575815;1480618317;trinque;I am trying to digest the perspective that one must beat himself to behave according to his own model of reality, subjectively.
1575816;1480618341;trinque;how can that be so when it implies an infinite regression of models of his world
1575817;1480618343;gabriel_laddel_p;I should have been a little more specific earlier re: why cocaine in particular, or meth (in particular) would be useful IN MY SITUATION. I think it would be useful when you find yourself on a forced march in the sense that you MUST stay awake for a few hours longer than you normally would have, perhaps on the company of people who you should proba
1575818;1480618343;gabriel_laddel_p;bly socialize with prior to getting a new place to crash / drop masamunes off.
1575819;1480618356;mod6;asciilifeform: did you guys take down the order form for fuckgoats?
1575820;1480618376;mod6;I aquired a box, so was just gonna re-read some of the stuff and place an order later tonight.
1575821;1480618393;gabriel_laddel_p;both substances allow you to remain lucid after a long time with little sleep
1575822;1480618394;asciilifeform;mod6: no, did you have trouble loading ?
1575823;1480618408;mod6;i didn't see a link. i'm probably an idiot.
1575824;1480618439;*;gabriel_laddel_p off to sell machines, later.
1575825;1480618458;trinque;gabriel_laddel_p: k, now describe the iterated case.
1575826;1480618492;asciilifeform;mats: page is all there, box -- not in any sense hammered; should load normally
1575827;1480618511;asciilifeform;mod6 ^ rather
1575828;1480618517;phf;trinque: all voracious learners i know eventually hit the point, where acquiring knowledge/skill requires significant amount of self abuse. the kind of abuse in question is the actual, physical pain that you experience in your head, when for example trying to grok math analysis. only people who never experienced that are jacks of all trades who bail before that point (or mythical genuises who never hit their limits before death, i know
1575829;1480618518;phf;none)
1575830;1480618529;asciilifeform;and ^^^
1575831;1480618538;asciilifeform;phf has it.
1575832;1480618539;trinque;thinking hard is not abuse
1575833;1480618547;mod6;ooooh. i see what the problem was. the homepage doesn't have a link to 'shop'.  after clicking on 'the real bitcoin' link, then was taken to that page, where a 'shop' link exists.
1575834;1480618552;mod6;thanks
1575835;1480618569;asciilifeform;mod6: your browser cache may be stale
1575836;1480618575;asciilifeform;all of the pages should have same link
1575837;1480618577;mod6;oh, aight. will clear.
1575838;1480618626;mod6;doesn't seem to resolve the issue.  but w/e.  less people in line in front of me!
1575839;1480618632;asciilifeform;mod6: link ?
1575840;1480618638;trinque;this dope topic is a perfect example. I was making a similar "psychedelics open your mind, man" argument a year or two ago, and mp thoroughly trashed the argument.
1575841;1480618652;trinque;when this occurred, I changed my perspective. to not do so is insanity.
1575842;1480618675;mod6;and btw, i get a 401 auth required when trying to hit: www.nosuchlabs.com
1575843;1480618699;asciilifeform;lol i have nfi
1575844;1480618720;asciilifeform;btw who is 46.166.139.120 , your browser is in an infinite loop
1575845;1480618724;mod6;but, i don't have a link handy for ya or anything, it's just 'http://nosuchlabs.com' in a private-window with all history cleared, no 'shop' link in menu bar.
1575846;1480618763;trinque;I would say one of the functions of a republic is to do precisely this, i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1533200
1575847;1480618763;a111;Logged on 2016-09-01 19:52 trinque: http://trilema.com/2016/the-bickening/ << /me perceives more of "republic describes the structure of meaning" here
1575848;1480618793;trinque;when you encounter the truth, it better flip bits in your skull, or you are broken. this includes "I must build/learn/etc X"
1575849;1480618907;asciilifeform;mod6: try now.
1575850;1480618916;asciilifeform;(www.... and bare link)
1575851;1480618977;asciilifeform;^ anyone else saw what mod6 saw ??
1575852;1480618984;asciilifeform;and how about now ?
1575853;1480619037;mircea_popescu;trinque it has to be so ; so as to prevent the reality-representation tandem from going into positive feedback.
1575854;1480619299;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575840 << he will no doubt be less than pleased to hear that i can / historically have stayed up for days at a stretch because i wanted to. it's all in the brain, man!
1575855;1480619299;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:57 trinque: this dope topic is a perfect example. I was making a similar "psychedelics open your mind, man" argument a year or two ago, and mp thoroughly trashed the argument.
1575856;1480619326;mod6;so now, i see that 'nosuchlabs.com' homepage is the 'fuckgoats' page -- no middle finger
1575857;1480619333;mircea_popescu;aha.
1575858;1480619351;mod6;and the shop link is on there.
1575859;1480619425;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575841 << yes, but this is not really what's discussed here. obviously when you grok something you grok something. but in order to get yourserlf to where you grok something, you invariably have to do something "out of character". there has to be some pressure. "and at that moment x was enlightened" specifically says "x abused himself to the point of", but nobody wants to notice.
1575860;1480619425;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:57 trinque: when this occurred, I changed my perspective. to not do so is insanity.
1575861;1480619445;mircea_popescu;that ~nobody wants to notice~ is the very point. yes, once the spot on the sleeve is pointed out it stands out. and before it wasn't there.
1575862;1480619482;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/01/out-with-trudeau-in-with-oleary/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Out with Trudeau. In with O’Leary.
1575863;1480619496;mircea_popescu;(which is why the whole "nobody could have predicted" is such an endearingly stupid exercise in ignorance pleading, but whatevers)
1575864;1480619657;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575666 << "i fucking love science!" there's a lot of these.
1575865;1480619657;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 17:55 asciilifeform: 'it ALL falls into place!1'
1575866;1480619713;mircea_popescu;for a while a very popular ~tv format~ was this string of factoids going in a sort of free association from a noun back again to it. the whole thing read too fast and with "bbc noises" in the background (you know the idiocy, chimes intended to propose THE IMPORTANT IS OCCURING!)
1575867;1480619760;trinque;mircea_popescu: aha, and the dope runs heavy risk of false-positive "did something useful out of character"
1575868;1480619763;mircea_popescu;"mice were found in germany which is a country that once invaded the soviet union where lenin introduced electricity which goes through tubes in which tubes today in england most mices live." "OH NOW IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE!!!"
1575869;1480619770;trinque;but whatever, we can have two sanitarium-goers
1575870;1480619772;trinque;:D
1575871;1480619830;mircea_popescu;trinque try as i might i fail to see self-administered medication in any better light than self-mixed gasoline. "oh, my fuel mix gives me much better power and gas mileage". meanwhile derp drives a fucking honda and has an evil eye pendant dangling from the rear view mirror.
1575872;1480619834;mircea_popescu;i'm sure he MEASURED this shit.
1575873;1480619858;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575854 << aaaa, but didja throw any cars.
1575874;1480619858;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 19:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575840 << he will no doubt be less than pleased to hear that i can / historically have stayed up for days at a stretch because i wanted to. it's all in the brain, man!
1575875;1480619882;mircea_popescu;if only the exxon people had thought to mix mountain berries and chalk powder into the damned thing. but the anti-berry lobby is keeping a lid on things.
1575876;1480619894;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nope. who throws cars ?
1575877;1480619901;asciilifeform;pcp eaters.
1575878;1480619913;mircea_popescu;much likelier they give themselves tendon fractures.
1575879;1480619923;asciilifeform;well yes, each gets to throw 1 car.
1575880;1480619925;asciilifeform;then -- done.
1575881;1480619934;mircea_popescu;wtf, a crane is like 100 bux an hour already. why throw cars.
1575882;1480619975;asciilifeform;most of the things 'plankton' do on done, there is equally little actual reason to do any of.
1575883;1480619978;asciilifeform;*on dope
1575884;1480620021;phf;this goes back to the whole computer as an intelligence augmentation thread we had
1575885;1480620029;asciilifeform;aha.
1575886;1480620050;mircea_popescu;come to think about it, i find it deeply regrettable that fuel teas aren't fashionable. imagine, if people actualyl did plant mix decoctions to mix in their gas tanks.
1575887;1480620060;mircea_popescu;they could have a web forum dedicated to debating formulas...
1575888;1480620075;asciilifeform;this almost exists.
1575889;1480620093;mircea_popescu;like... camomille is good for reducing wear and mint is good for you know, that extra kick uphill
1575890;1480620095;phf;mircea_popescu: it exists! with diesel from trash crowd
1575891;1480620101;mircea_popescu;hm
1575892;1480620120;mircea_popescu;no but i mean, something equivalent to the fortified wine / bitter craze of the 1700/1800s.
1575893;1480620139;mircea_popescu;the stuff that gave us strega and campari and whatnot. "secret family recipe. blessed by pope! 500 plants!"
1575894;1480620151;asciilifeform;the correct analogy here, at least in re dopes that actually DO something, is nitro.
1575895;1480620159;mircea_popescu;the occasional death in a garage fireball because idiot had leaky still...
1575896;1480620170;mircea_popescu;"no doubt it was a hit by the anti-tea-gasoline lobby because he knew too much"
1575897;1480620191;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nitro dundo nuttin on stock engine.
1575898;1480620203;mircea_popescu;and i have yet to see people who altered their neurons prior to doping.
1575899;1480620215;asciilifeform;'dundu nuttin' is not exactly correct.
1575900;1480620216;phf;jack parsons blowing himself up has similar thread of mystical and paranoid interpretations
1575901;1480620228;mircea_popescu;though this is a decent sf premise, imagine if nanotech allows one to drill implants into each neuron
1575902;1480620234;mircea_popescu;and then you hafta whatever, eat wd40
1575903;1480620329;asciilifeform;incidentally it is not inconceivable that some of the natural variation in wakefulness, pain tolerance, etc. among people reduces to something that one could - to an extent - chemically scam into existence
1575904;1480620350;mircea_popescu;i have personally repaired malfunctioning electronics with a well placed hit to the side.
1575905;1480620353;asciilifeform;(though afaik no known dope falls squarely into this category, the discovery of thyroid hormone almost falls in )
1575906;1480620445;asciilifeform;the observation about 'nitro in a stock engine' is not untrue: idiots who take stim produce idiocy 10x faster, because they are unaccustomed to the horsepower and have nfi where to put it, their crankshaft simply bends
1575907;1480620453;mircea_popescu;and ftr in the "Self administered medication" above i don't just count "performance enhancing psychoactives" but also colodial silver, large servings of c vitamin and for that matter fucking steroids.
1575908;1480620474;*;mircea_popescu runs into dude, dumb as fucking doornail, "o man, everything's better on roids. you gotta juice man. you gotta!" 
1575909;1480620480;mircea_popescu;with some regularity.
1575910;1480620493;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there are 2 basic magisteria of self-medicators -- where the dope actually does something; and where not
1575911;1480620504;asciilifeform;(in the case of the latter -- placebocin still works magic!!)
1575912;1480620518;mircea_popescu;everything "does something".
1575913;1480620529;mircea_popescu;eat enough blueberry extract you'll poop purple for chrissakes.
1575914;1480620562;asciilifeform;something, let's say, superficially resembling the intended effect
1575915;1480620574;*;phf knows some hippies to who refer to psychedelic mushrooms as "medicine" and stick to the whole medical terminology throughout. mind you they take them at festivals, but "for medicinal purposes"
1575916;1480620591;*;asciilifeform pictures a penicillin festival
1575917;1480620635;mircea_popescu;phf hey, the alcohol as medicine thing is a joke older than those hippies' mothers.
1575918;1480620642;asciilifeform;phf: this is rather like medieval nuns who saw rubbing clit as only acceptable if done indirectly as part of a 'saintly ecstatic dream' etc
1575919;1480620658;asciilifeform;in re this and all other 'medicalizations' -- straight to tlp
1575920;1480620663;phf;perhaps if some tribe accidentally learned how to synth p they would have "festivals" around it. "doesn't work otherwise"
1575921;1480620719;asciilifeform;ritualization of $working-item is how priests siphon off some of the bang of the buck
1575922;1480620748;mircea_popescu;this is not unlike saying that the teenaged village whore manipulated the village.
1575923;1480620755;asciilifeform;supply 'necessary' mumbles, ration access, cordon off creators of bad pr (those for whom 'not worked'), etc
1575924;1480620773;mircea_popescu;a) people want to do x ; b) people don't weant to do x ; c) people pick the more lunatic marginal, make him Priest of X.
1575925;1480620780;mircea_popescu;kinda dangerous for the priest, but it's what it is.
1575926;1480620854;asciilifeform;phf: re 'medicinal alcohol', most famously possibly in usa -- n. tesla revoked his prediction of living to be 100 y.o. when prohibition passed
1575927;1480620888;*;mircea_popescu will to this day drink pepper-decocted-tuica for some types of colds.
1575928;1480620897;mircea_popescu;very fucking medicinal.
1575929;1480620950;asciilifeform;some variant of this exists in every drinking country, i suspect
1575930;1480621010;mircea_popescu;and it also works! but w/e, i'm not proposing this shamanism is medicine.
1575931;1480621080;*;mircea_popescu has had some occasion to try such wonders, like treated girl's sprain with mustard. it worked on her just as well as generally works, notwithstanding not from the right culture.
1575932;1480621157;phf;"every trained girl must placebo on command"
1575933;1480621187;*;mircea_popescu also sent girl with uti to buy herself gallon of cranberry juice the day before taking same girl to er because OMFG IT HURTS and pumping her full of nitrofuran.
1575934;1480621211;mircea_popescu;or in other words, traditional medicine is fun while the fun lasts.
1575935;1480621400;asciilifeform;either kind is 'while lasts'.
1575936;1480621411;mircea_popescu;this is also true.
1575937;1480621423;asciilifeform;( and consider how s. jobs supposedly died )
1575938;1480621439;mircea_popescu;didn't he have pancreatic cancer ?
1575939;1480621457;asciilifeform;no, iirc it was some very uncommonly ~operable~ liver variant
1575940;1480621465;mircea_popescu;not afaik.
1575941;1480621469;asciilifeform;but he 'traditionalled' it for , it was said, years.
1575942;1480621477;shinohai;He died of cyanide poisoning from eating all those crapple seeds
1575943;1480621491;mircea_popescu;islet cell carcinoma.
1575944;1480621769;mircea_popescu;o wow apparently he also got a liver transplant, which obv comes with imunosupressants.
1575945;1480621875;asciilifeform;the idea (or at least the popular notion, i was not at his deathbed and have nfi re fact) was that the man , with infinite money, could have likely lived if he had spent it on the 'brezhnev-grade' medical fuckery earlier.
1575946;1480621878;asciilifeform;instead of herbalists.
1575947;1480621909;mircea_popescu;yeah apparently he spent a year trolling the internet for "spiritualists" lel.
1575948;1480621936;phf;it's sort of like believing monopoly money is real money, must be a cultural thing
1575949;1480621983;mircea_popescu;success unhinges the mind.
1575950;1480621996;asciilifeform;especially 'grade 5' ( per mircea_popescu's essay ) success.
1575951;1480622006;mircea_popescu;especially.
1575952;1480622016;asciilifeform;it is pretty lethal to most folx i dare say.
1575953;1480622052;asciilifeform;the old piloting book, interestingly, goes into subj
1575954;1480622101;asciilifeform;(how folx often die -- from observer's pov, quite avoidably -- in the cockpit, author tells, is by taking idiot risk they 'got away with many times before')
1575955;1480622136;mircea_popescu;a good 2/3 of how girl gets in trouble. "but i've always done this".
1575956;1480622227;mircea_popescu;fine example for trinque 's folder on "brain - not reasoning machine". woman goes out in the field with the horde of kids (whose job as we know is to act as landmine sacrifices for the mysterious bushes). notices kid eats berries from berry bush, notices kid doesn't die, has some, and then tomorrow, and then
1575957;1480622235;mircea_popescu;KURU IS AN INEXPLICABLE GOD SENT DISEASE
1575958;1480622359;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575685 << you have to appreciate that "hacker culture" as practiced by adolescents is very different from hacking and very related to adolescence. the "hunting culture" of adolescents similarly is more about the horde being together and all excited than about catching anything.
1575959;1480622359;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:06 phf: also made me rather mistrustful of a lot of "hacker culture" elements, like too much coffee, night hacking, after hour sprints, weekend hacking, all things that i've confirmed from experience to contributing to atrocious code
1575960;1480622379;mircea_popescu;there's specific sexual behaviours involved ; not so much work-oriented. unless you count cunt crushing.
1575961;1480622493;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575686 << quite exactly, alf has it. http://trilema.com/2010/copchii-au-o-problema/ very much this same story.
1575962;1480622493;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:07 asciilifeform: the 'culture' was, as i gather, never actually ~about~ the code, but... about the coffee; the shared deathmarches; the dope; the sensory deprivation bottles; the 'scene'; and other pretenses.
1575963;1480622710;phf;sort of reminds me how i was trying to teach a group of script kiddies to program. "this here shellcode -- that we use to pwn newwwbs!!! -- yes, yes, see it's x86 assembly -- ... -- and you disassemble it, and then even write your own -- so we can pwn newbs better????!!! -- yes yes precisely"
1575964;1480622763;mircea_popescu;does your wife go ? eh ? eh ? is she a sport ? say NO MORE!
1575965;1480622799;phf;what's it like!
1575966;1480622810;mircea_popescu;aha lol
1575967;1480623061;*;asciilifeform just opened a crate, 'what was this', turns out, grey market chinese '3d display', came even with preloaded crappy pr0n
1575968;1480623111;phf;is it chinese porn?
1575969;1480623127;asciilifeform;well yes
1575970;1480623138;asciilifeform;thing runs turdroid, etc.
1575971;1480623159;mircea_popescu;what, with blurred out cunts and shit ?
1575972;1480623191;asciilifeform;approx
1575973;1480623210;asciilifeform;box claims 'like in movie theatre' -- and true! !! ~back row~
1575974;1480623280;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575716 << you know that "so what does your master do ?" "when he eats - he eats. when he sleeps - he sleeps" one ?
1575975;1480623280;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:24 trinque has advocated various dopes in the past solely because they were fun, like camping is fun, but I don't write code camping either. I camp.
1575976;1480623323;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575721 << kinda why it goes so well with orgies.
1575977;1480623323;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:25 trinque: still didn't feel superhuman on either; more like excited dog that has to sniff everything in a loop
1575978;1480623482;asciilifeform;and lel, 'bangkok motor show' in there
1575979;1480623488;asciilifeform;complete with 1930s wtfs
1575980;1480623500;phf;asciilifeform: this is some prime warez
1575981;1480623545;trinque;mircea_popescu: A student once asked his teacher, "Master, what is enlightenment?" The master replied, "When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep." << this thing?
1575982;1480623896;asciilifeform;iirc it also ended with 'when done -- die'
1575983;1480623900;asciilifeform;but maybe i dreamed this.
1575984;1480624073;trinque;should at any rate.
1575985;1480624231;shinohai;https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count    <<< quite the mempool spike today
1575986;1480624576;mircea_popescu;trinque o, no.
1575987;1480624655;mircea_popescu;A student told his friend, "My teacher has amazing powers. He moves a pen in the air and characters appear on a piece of paper held on the other side of the river. What does your master do?" His friend replied "My great master follows Zen. When he is hungry, he eats and when he is tired he sleeps."
1575988;1480624898;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575976 << i suspect that 'the dose makes the poison', as often is the case, most 'erdos' success stories involve very very small ones.
1575989;1480624898;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 20:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575721 << kinda why it goes so well with orgies.
1575990;1480624904;mircea_popescu;shinohai < that sort of shit is misleading because usual socialism. should be in term of total fees.
1575991;1480624919;mircea_popescu;wtf is "a transaction"
1575992;1480624927;asciilifeform;lulzy how we ~still~ don't have fee-sort sanity.
1575993;1480624937;mircea_popescu;until we put it in it won't exist alf.
1575994;1480624939;asciilifeform;dafuq are 0fee tx even doing existing, for instance.
1575995;1480624954;asciilifeform;or even the coin age priority thing.
1575996;1480624958;asciilifeform;it makes 0 sense.
1575997;1480624962;mircea_popescu;that's privilege.
1575998;1480624965;asciilifeform;prioritize -- by fee.
1575999;1480624982;mircea_popescu;i can't say i grasp what the dude thought he was doing exactly.
1576000;1480624982;asciilifeform;(there is nothing presently keeping miners from prioritizing how they like. but -- too stupid)
1576001;1480625020;shinohai;I agree it should be prioritized by fee ... but "democracy" and all
1576002;1480625031;*;asciilifeform once sat down to put it in and then found that he cannot even delete one tx from the pool !
1576003;1480625033;asciilifeform;if anyone recalls.
1576004;1480625038;asciilifeform;jurov -- replicated this, painfully
1576005;1480625278;mircea_popescu;so folks may recall the airconditioner pics ? in the same vein, this morning there was a truck loaded with steel pipes, and two trabajadores. one of them held a pipe up in the air vertically, with great effort, as the wind threatened to cause a serious workplace accident any moment. the other had a shovel.
1576006;1480625314;mircea_popescu;and he used that shovel. to bang on the lower end of the steep pipe, ostensibly to induce it to take a shape less offensive to his taste and good public morals.
1576007;1480625340;mircea_popescu;at which point englithment struck me : do you know that in two years here i NEVER heard an engine as quiet as the item left the factory ?
1576008;1480625365;mircea_popescu;it was long a low level puzzle this, "seriously, 2010 toyota sounds LIKE THAT ?!"
1576009;1480625387;asciilifeform;lemme guess, they take off the mufflers for the 1-3% efficiency boost ?
1576010;1480625392;mircea_popescu;but then it became crystal clear - they have these auto shops here, about 100x the floor space of bars and nightclubs altogether. and in them, men. trabajadores.
1576011;1480625398;mircea_popescu;with their fucking shovels, fucking up everything.
1576012;1480625409;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform currently i suspect they unseat and reseat the engine blocks wrongly.
1576013;1480625422;mircea_popescu;ie, with different screws. with pipe collars. etcetera. INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA.
1576014;1480625459;asciilifeform;btw most engines made since mid-1990s have an electronic damper that kicks in b/w , iirc, 3rd and 4th gear, and also has to be mounted, and correctly, or ~increases~ vibration
1576015;1480625494;mircea_popescu;everything sounds like a fucking volga.
1576016;1480625494;asciilifeform;(i learned of this existing when finally found the schematics for own auto, and marvelled)
1576017;1480625537;mircea_popescu;i mean, IVECO trucks, clearly made for municipal use, clearly delivered new sometime in the past 2-3 years. as loud as a zil uphill.
1576018;1480625549;mircea_popescu;never would that item have left factory in that condition
1576019;1480625613;asciilifeform;orc maintenance.
1576020;1480625640;asciilifeform;btw asciilifeform's mechanic is originally from buenos aires, and is superb
1576021;1480625641;mircea_popescu;sort-of how the long lost compass in tribal shaman's possession is covered in braids and whatnot.
1576022;1480625721;asciilifeform;according to legend, cuba is different somehow
1576023;1480625724;asciilifeform;but i have not been there.
1576024;1480625917;*;jurov went to look up trabajadores, there was this example usage: Mis trabajadores roban material de oficina de la empresa.
1576025;1480625928;mircea_popescu;i would say it is very apt.
1576026;1480625949;mircea_popescu;ladrones simply comes from lado, as in "de todo lado".
1576027;1480626376;mircea_popescu;and in other utf news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a45654e4c3ad69ae4c0b4e2a9fbd4dbd/tumblr_oftz3cP7JU1ufsny6o1_1280.gif
1576028;1480626626;asciilifeform;http://reason.com/archives/2016/11/28/the-secret-dangerous-world-of << in other lelz
1576029;1480626672;mircea_popescu;gaming forum ? nigga...
1576030;1480626838;mircea_popescu;that's what, 2 petahash ? i'm sure some venezuelan derp is running 2ph.
1576031;1480626886;mircea_popescu;half a million or so in gear, big deal!
1576032;1480626956;mircea_popescu;and besides, who's gonna notice a missing quarter mw.
1576033;1480627267;*;ben_vulpes was just fined for gang plugging
1576034;1480627389;phf;"make sure he gets plugged -- sure thing boss" later "benny v arrested in gang related plugging"
1576035;1480627422;mircea_popescu;did this involve ginger by any chance ?
1576036;1480627430;ben_vulpes;i wish
1576037;1480627432;ben_vulpes;power cords only
1576038;1480627446;mircea_popescu;isn't that nigger rigging ?
1576039;1480627464;*;ben_vulpes dies laughing
1576040;1480627565;phf;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxSi6U41R4Q
1576041;1480627583;ben_vulpes;funny thing is that i can guarantee if i'm drawing any serious amount of amperage it will be the walls that ignite and not my nigga-rigged workstation
1576042;1480628364;*;trinque still wants to know what gang plugging is!
1576043;1480628377;trinque;I've got a bunch of italians sitting around getting mops stapled on in my head
1576044;1480628424;trinque;somebody has authoritah to inspect your power strips somewhere?
1576045;1480628616;ben_vulpes;yeah, that's exactly it.
1576046;1480628633;ben_vulpes;i didn't actually know that the fire marshall planned to let himself in, but GLORIOUS SOCIALIST UTOPIA OF PORTLAND
1576047;1480628669;trinque;let himself in << what the fuck?
1576048;1480628779;ben_vulpes;tell me about it!
1576049;1480631083;mircea_popescu;i'm confused. what happened ?
1576050;1480631119;ben_vulpes;fire marshall let himself into my office and fined me for power cord mismanagement
1576051;1480631141;ben_vulpes;"GANG PLUGGING POWER TAPS"
1576052;1480631154;mircea_popescu;how did he do that ? no locks where you live ?
1576053;1480631419;ben_vulpes;well this is the office and apparently they have their own set of keys
1576054;1480631443;mircea_popescu;lol aww.
1576055;1480631819;asciilifeform;what's the fine, same 20bux as for smoking in a lift ?
1576056;1480631829;asciilifeform;( last set in... '50s..? )
1576057;1480631894;ben_vulpes;very close, when inflation-adjusted, some 250.
1576058;1480631950;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1576026 << and i thought it was from latro (thief - lat)
1576059;1480631950;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 20:59 mircea_popescu: ladrones simply comes from lado, as in "de todo lado".
1576060;1480633099;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2D3k0sJ8HM << in other olds.
1576061;1480633451;asciilifeform;'you will need 50 men to lift this part...'
1576062;1480635542;shinohai;http://archive.is/HgfnJ   <<< google play users get cornholed again
1576063;1480635698;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform of course it is.
1576064;1480635843;mircea_popescu;and in other eu news, http://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/MrPayne/4694500/204087145/cuck_bw_07.jpg
1576065;1480635956;asciilifeform;lel the thing from mircea_popescu's tale
1576066;1480635964;mircea_popescu;which one ?
1576067;1480635985;asciilifeform;the one with the... cock crusher?
1576068;1480636025;mircea_popescu;oh i see!
1576069;1480636032;mircea_popescu;THAT one
1576070;1480636043;shinohai;There was an enterprising lady on reddit iirc who charged 0.1 to keep the tards locked up in one weekly.
1576071;1480636084;mircea_popescu;a saintly spirit.
1576072;1480636103;mircea_popescu;incidentally, no such labs now larger referrer for trilema than the logs.
1576073;1480636179;asciilifeform;lolsrsly?
1576074;1480636186;mircea_popescu;aha.
1576075;1480636195;asciilifeform;neato.
1576076;1480636200;mircea_popescu;by a fat margin too.
1576077;1480636365;ben_vulpes;http://directory.io/faq
1576078;1480636491;asciilifeform;old noose
1576079;1480636499;asciilifeform;iirc it was in #ba before i was
1576080;1480636500;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes your reddit link 404s
1576081;1480636500;ben_vulpes;2013 even, but amused me.
1576082;1480636511;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: pardon?
1576083;1480636552;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i clicked on some link in there and it showed me an orange pile with some sort of teddybear crushed under it
1576084;1480636587;ben_vulpes;in the directory.io/faq page?
1576085;1480636591;mircea_popescu;yes
1576086;1480636608;mircea_popescu;i think maybe it was reddit's rendition of a cock ? crushed ?
1576087;1480636618;ben_vulpes;not precisely my link, but reddit appears down from here
1576088;1480636632;mircea_popescu;aww.
1576089;1480636763;mircea_popescu;so /me clicks an addres.. and bam
1576090;1480636764;mircea_popescu;https://blockchain.info/address/1EoXPE6MzT4EnHvk2Ldj64M2ks2EAcZyH4
1576091;1480636802;asciilifeform;'Public Note: Colorful eggs! You find it! Then what? Donate back to me if you like it. Other eggs are not far, I'd like to leave some clues about the pages or the keys, but I'm sleepy now.' << wat
1576092;1480636819;mircea_popescu;i do not know.
1576093;1480636914;mircea_popescu;but in other obscure arcana, http://68.media.tumblr.com/85dcb1cd1002b08c978b2738720da4f7/tumblr_oe8kg2KzS21v81p6qo1_1280.jpg
1576094;1480639441;BingoBoingo;http://img.memecdn.com/gibsmedat-germany-monei_o_5883771.jpg
1576095;1480643316;mod6; order placed.
1576096;1480643387;mircea_popescu;👍
1576097;1480643673;shinohai;http://archive.is/HDX7b   <<< Preeeeeeeeeeet to remain in the Trumpreich
1576098;1480643727;mircea_popescu;generally rainers/torquemadas/etc are politically pliable
1576099;1480643735;mircea_popescu;they just want to smell blood.
1576100;1480643773;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575904 << lol, same.
1576101;1480643773;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 19:25 mircea_popescu: i have personally repaired malfunctioning electronics with a well placed hit to the side.
1576102;1480644329;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1CD989C23947B860165C328E98AF5AE44F6F3931126D167976F47CA898F62F5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1717...3577 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.63.164.144 (ssh-rsa key from 200.63.164.144 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (200-63-164-144.static.speedy.com.ar. AR B)
1576103;1480644351;asciilifeform;lol ar
1576104;1480644826;asciilifeform;has world-open postgresql...?
1576105;1480644839;mircea_popescu;soberania.
1576106;1480650918;BingoBoingo;Also possible Trump want Preet to leave in scandal the next activist prosecution overturned on appeal
1576107;1480650922;BingoBoingo;*wants
1576108;1480651501;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1CD989C23947B860165C328E98AF5AE44F6F3931126D167976F47CA898F62F5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...1793 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.63.164.144 (ssh-rsa key from 200.63.164.144 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (200-63-164-144.static.speedy.com.ar. AR B)
1576109;1480651686;BingoBoingo;Related http://epmonthly.com/article/treating-chainsaw-laceration-ep-enough/ "The patient claimed that he was given a staple remover and was told to remove the staples in one week. Emergency department staff stated that they gave him a staple remover to bring to his primary care physician to have the staples removed in 12-14 days. The patient removed the staples three days after they had been placed. Two months later, the patient returne
1576110;1480651686;BingoBoingo;d to the emergency department with severe pain, swelling, and warmth to his knee."
1576111;1480655912;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/bitcoin-network-difficulty-up-1-76-in-modest-increase/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Up ~1.76% In Modest Increase
1576112;1480658288;pete_dushenski;many congrats to asciilifeform and mircea_popescu on squeeking in under the nth xmas deadline for #fuckgoats. looking forward to getting my hands on one, whatever batch that may be. will probably order a few and give as gifts to sufficiently nerdy friends.
1576113;1480658353;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574565 << this is right in my backyard. also alma mater. nfi what the 'ssdpdev' program or specialty is, however.
1576114;1480658353;a111;Logged on 2016-11-29 16:13 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E739A834E2CE6339A7D05EEDB78D8485695F6AA890225B692F2561197FFFFBE5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1522...2357 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '142.244.231.80 (ssh-rsa key from 142.244.231.80 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ssdpdev1.srv.ualberta.ca. CA AB)
1576115;1480658410;pete_dushenski;!~ticker --market all --currency rmb
1576116;1480658416;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 5436.69, vol: 2209723.55590000 | Volume-weighted last average: 5436.69
1576117;1480658641;pete_dushenski;also props to trinque for the wot visualiser. nifty bidness, that.
1576118;1480658675;*;pete_dushenski goes to update blog with link to wot.deedbot
1576119;1480658917;pete_dushenski;speaking of blogs, this comment came in recently with a link to an reuters piece about how the tsx had just turfed canadian scammer king anthony di iorio as their 'chief digital officer', just as i told them to do exactly five months ago. so goddam golden. mega-satisfying even though i didn't make a penny off the prediction.
1576120;1480658970;pete_dushenski;of course they framed it as fat tony 'leaving to pursue his other blockchain projects' but his days are officially over.
1576121;1480659055;pete_dushenski;refresher for those who are less familiar with fat tony : he was the lead pre-mine scammer behind ethereum. he basically handpicked the autistic alien vitalik and shoved his greasy wop hand up the poor kid's butt and played him like kermit the frog.
1576122;1480659244;pete_dushenski;o hey james mattis as secretary of defense.
1576123;1480659381;mats;mattis is legendary among marines
1576124;1480659482;pete_dushenski;good pick then eh
1576125;1480659541;mats;although there's that incident involving an ODA group asking for medevac, being refused by mattis, forcing usaf to fly in from k2 with an unrested crew that didn't have maps
1576126;1480659681;mats;http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/01/18/the-green-berets-who-saved-karzai.html
1576127;1480659745;mats;some say he wouldn't have refused, if it had been marines in the fight
1576128;1480659815;mats;fwiw, it reads like he made a good call, with the information he had at the time
1576129;1480660308;mats;anyway, i don't believe that combat vets (or vets of any kind) are suitable for public service in this manner
1576130;1480660538;mats;the zero defect approach to officer evaluation reports and utter lack of experience managing money in a large org are not good traits
1576131;1480660647;mats;they're encouraged to spend, not manage
1576132;1480660794;pete_dushenski;interesting. for the ignorant, what's the 'zero defect approach' ?
1576133;1480661014;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-19#1137707
1576134;1480661014;a111;Logged on 2015-05-19 02:03 mats: there is this thing known as "zero defect" officers
1576135;1480661061;mats;http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=9485
1576136;1480661202;*;pete_dushenski reads
1576137;1480661244;mats;>
Top-down training directives and strategies combined with brief leader development experiences for junior officers leads to a perception that micromanagement is pervasive. They do not believe they are being afforded sufficient opportunity to learn from the results of their own decisions and actions.
1576138;1480661375;pete_dushenski;aha
1576139;1480661486;pete_dushenski;isn't such a faulty approach something mattis could do away with ? or too embedded ?
1576140;1480661659;mats;risk aversion runs deep in the officer corps, it's hard to say
1576141;1480662009;pete_dushenski;maybe a russian invasion, or at least a smattering of carpet bombing campaigns, will straighten out their obsession with risk aversion. but that might be a few decades off. unlikely trump can live that long, even if i wouldn't be surprised if he put an end to the two-term limit.
1576142;1480664518;pete_dushenski;"That's the Unicode world, a world where impotence was legislated a litte further" << mircea_popescu, missing 'l'
1576143;1480664565;pete_dushenski;unless its majick mikroskopick invisabru unicode 'l' tucked in there in martian font.
1576144;1480664573;pete_dushenski;it's*
1576145;1480664992;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/uGJTp << 'cybercriminals' going under the 'avalanche' banner are 'dismantled' by doj, europol, eurojust and... icann. moar dns plz!
1576146;1480666040;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574600 << i'll pass, busy as well :) glory awaits someone!
1576147;1480666040;a111;Logged on 2016-11-29 16:50 trinque: maybe Framedragger's bag
1576148;1480666050;Framedragger;congratulations on FUCKGOATS, asciilifeform and mircea_popescu
1576149;1480666631;ben_vulpes;jurov: cloudfront errors at the ml again
1576150;1480666748;Framedragger;(meanwhile in SK, great image interpretations: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/k1/IMG_20161202_151045296.jpg / http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/k1/IMG_20161202_152418040_HDR.jpg / http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/k1/IMG_20161202_152455846.jpg)
1576151;1480666760;Framedragger;body image*
1576152;1480674126;mircea_popescu;mostly him.
1576153;1480675005;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576123 << isn't he the guy that started the whole wedding bombing trend ?
1576154;1480675005;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 06:16 mats: mattis is legendary among marines
1576155;1480675342;mircea_popescu;incidentally, the rise and fall of the theranos lizzard club may be of interest to the alf minded.
1576156;1480675392;mircea_popescu;!!up Beausoleil
1576157;1480675392;deedbot;Beausoleil voiced for 30 minutes.
1576158;1480676446;shinohai;Buenas dias mircea_popescu !
1576159;1480676485;mircea_popescu;hhhola!
1576160;1480677232;jurov;mod6: fxd, when their cloudtron IP addresses change, must me manually updated in their firewall
1576161;1480677256;jurov;*must be
1576162;1480677379;jurov;btw, if you saw news.ycombinator recently, a third of frontpage were about AWS. interesting noone noticed (or was muffled, dunno).
1576163;1480677418;Framedragger;(oh god, i'll come back from asia believing that lithuania should seriously suck china's cock as much as possible so that it could *maybe* get bought by them. like, that's the best option for them. idem poland, only that the latter are way ahead (and a tad bit more autonomous from bruxelles.usa) (e.g.: coaxing chinese to invest into gdansk port; .lt's port is just about done.))
1576164;1480677649;Framedragger;(there is that feeling (maybe just a feeling) that folx here (.ko) always have some spare cash. (i mean like jb financial group, etc.) whereas in yurop, everything's on the brink of bankruptcy, disaster's around the corner.)
1576165;1480677754;mircea_popescu;doh.
1576166;1480677762;mircea_popescu;they say traveling opens the mind of youth.
1576167;1480677852;Framedragger;after reflecting upon economic cycles and the crashes to come, ii have presently assumed a state of relative tranquillity...
1576168;1480677913;shinohai;How's Korea Framedragger had any mole de perro yet? xD
1576169;1480677966;Framedragger;it's pretty cool :) what's that tho? i am most uncultured. lots of octopus, fish, assorted seafood was had, tho :)
1576170;1480677972;mircea_popescu;dog.
1576171;1480677985;Framedragger;also potato pancakes. but we have those in .lt. .lt is basically just potatoes.
1576172;1480678012;mircea_popescu;eh don't be too harsh, you also have potato dumplings with a little cheese in them.
1576173;1480678012;shinohai;I had iguana while I was in central america, about as exotic as I got with the locals
1576174;1480678017;mircea_popescu;that's almost like not potato
1576175;1480678044;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: totally. i hear you. and lots of sour cream. like srsly lots. to ease the potatoes in
1576176;1480678072;*;mircea_popescu comes from dairy country, likes girls with big tits and eats a cup o' sour cream a day.
1576177;1480678103;mircea_popescu;(srsly, napolact, the transylvania milk and dairy factory, sells sour cream in these 600g buckets.)
1576178;1480678111;Framedragger;never had a thing for large asses and boobs. maybe 'cause i'm quite small...
1576179;1480678115;Framedragger;lol not bad
1576180;1480678134;mircea_popescu;oh im sorry. 900g.
1576181;1480678176;Framedragger;hmm i guess you can, like, spill that on girls, etc.; i can see that.
1576182;1480678188;shinohai;The work of a milkmaid is honorable work http://i.imgur.com/fZs0RHz.jpg
1576183;1480678192;mircea_popescu;i wonder if i wrote my sandwich down
1576184;1480678276;Framedragger;!#s closely watched trains
1576185;1480678277;a111;0 results for "closely watched trains", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=closely%20watched%20trains
1576186;1480678282;mircea_popescu;apparently not. anyway, the mp sandwich includes a layer of sour cream.
1576187;1480678328;Framedragger;this randomly reminded me of this film ^ from czechoslovakia. mircea_popescu probably knows. there's a scene with the guy stamping the girl in the train station. it's beautiful. (but for srsly. 1960s .cz film, you know)
1576188;1480678348;Framedragger;hahaha cool.
1576189;1480678358;mircea_popescu;i dun think i saw it.
1576190;1480678371;Framedragger;totally recommend it, even if my film-recommendation-credit has run dry
1576191;1480678381;mircea_popescu;lol. it's ok, films are hard to come by.
1576192;1480678387;Framedragger;great cinematography
1576193;1480678400;Framedragger;.cz new wave
1576194;1480678420;mircea_popescu;anyway, i thought .lt also did pigs.
1576195;1480678442;Framedragger;ohya. fat everywhere, lots of pig, yes indeed. there is that.
1576196;1480678456;mircea_popescu;very acceptabru cuisine.
1576197;1480678462;Framedragger;(i need to uh reconnect with my kin-nature or sth, forgot)
1576198;1480678480;Framedragger;hard agricultural work <-> fat
1576199;1480678514;Framedragger;of the same kind is fatty polish kvašnica soup. quite good.
1576200;1480678522;Framedragger;(dunno how it's spelt)
1576201;1480678580;mircea_popescu;eh, i'm more partial to drier, vegetable heavy, lovage ladden شوربا-style things.
1576202;1480678636;*;mircea_popescu can't stand azn soups for all the fucking oil they put in there.
1576203;1480678684;Framedragger;the oil is quite present... also did you just spell porridge in arabic script?
1576204;1480678707;mircea_popescu;it's an ancient persian dish, sour meat and vegetable broth.
1576205;1480678726;Framedragger;ah, sounds excellent.
1576206;1480678739;*;Framedragger will go to iran some day
1576207;1480678778;mircea_popescu;very well spread in the old world, it's çorba in turkish, ciorba in romanian, i would identify it as the core of cultural identity for non-western europe.
1576208;1480678788;mircea_popescu;much like castration is the cultural identity of western europe.
1576209;1480678858;Framedragger;interestingly i find the .ko boyz quite subdued, i mean in all kinds of senses incl libido, but that may very well be a very superficial impression
1576210;1480678873;Framedragger;(boyz = various youth)
1576211;1480678879;mircea_popescu;azns. the penii are mostly to pee with.
1576212;1480678891;Framedragger;i guess i should try to talk to girls here huh
1576213;1480678906;Framedragger;didn't really get the chance. except for in retrospect missed opportunities :/
1576214;1480678921;mircea_popescu;dude...
1576215;1480678931;mircea_popescu;drop all the stupid computer shit right now and go out and talk to all the girls you see.
1576216;1480678939;mircea_popescu;wtf is this dumb shit, they ain't got computers where you live ?
1576217;1480678980;Framedragger;"i'm coding". yeahyeah. i'm off to the DMZ/JSC tomorrow which is sth i wanted to go to. will have opportunity
1576218;1480678990;Framedragger;maybe even tonight. you're right.
1576219;1480678991;mircea_popescu;nevermind tomorrow.
1576220;1480679006;mircea_popescu;what possible fucking outcome can you obtain from "coding".
1576221;1480679052;Framedragger;gonna sound dumb, but not sure where i could go. i hate clubbing. i guess i should find nice places etc
1576222;1480679063;mircea_popescu;just walk.
1576223;1480679082;mircea_popescu;you don't have to ~go~ somewhere to meet people, especially not in ancient inhabited places like asia.
1576224;1480679218;Framedragger;that's, like, good advice. makes sense
1576225;1480679237;mircea_popescu;"and yet here i am."
1576226;1480679280;Framedragger;gun wrap up.
1576227;1480679855;Framedragger;(oh also, shot from a real gun for first time yesterday. pretty cool. never thought there'd be that much of a gun powder smell, and flash of light.)
1576228;1480680464;*;mircea_popescu idly wonders if the hama massacre and hafez' socialist roots have anything to do with the junior bashar's poor reception in the us and ru support. the father did create an unique network of alawites all through the 80s...
1576229;1480680499;mircea_popescu;Framedragger not quite as seen on tv huh.
1576230;1480680565;Framedragger;yeah. good to have a concrete reference in mind i guess.
1576231;1480681804;mircea_popescu;incidentally, isn't it remarkable the ustardian social media isn't up in arms about all the sex discrimination going on in iraq ? why, pray tell, ONLY MALES "of fighting age" are being suspected ?
1576232;1480682197;mircea_popescu;anyway. the battle for mosul, originally slated to end about a month ago, and then upgraded to end about today, has been upgraded again to take "months" hence. i think i want a refund.
1576233;1480682390;mircea_popescu;(for the innocent : there was a 2015 "we'll take mosul in spring" thing, also. you never hear anything about it today BECAUSE the key of usg behaviour is exactly http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523269 : they make one a year. if this year's fails then "it never really happened" ; if it succeeds then "see, we always win, told you so!")
1576234;1480682390;a111;Logged on 2016-08-17 17:02 mircea_popescu: Framedragger the reason there's a lot of credence in phf's perhaps harsh criticism is http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/
1576235;1480683369;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/829D7AF9CA36744B0FA7458BD2E8394CC37B685C25AF7AEC8D0DB44D507482A9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1549...3469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.203.206.158 (ssh-rsa key from 89.203.206.158 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-89-203-206-158.ktkadan.cz. CZ)
1576236;1480683668;mircea_popescu;!!up walter_
1576237;1480683668;deedbot;walter_ voiced for 30 minutes.
1576238;1480683832;walter_;Thanks. Anybody watching the XVC drama?
1576239;1480683843;mircea_popescu;dun think so. what's xvc ?
1576240;1480683867;walter_;another altcoin
1576241;1480683880;mircea_popescu;anything good ?
1576242;1480683901;mircea_popescu;!#s vcash
1576243;1480683901;a111;0 results for "vcash", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=vcash
1576244;1480683909;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7D71650BD79BBD83129590245BD93C5B90619E785ED717D688FCFB9FAFD50818 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1531...2837 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.125.180.127 (ssh-rsa key from 94.125.180.127 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.vitorla.com. HU)
1576245;1480683909;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/420578B02866959FA7F8E8C36B827E824A0B9CF6EFDFA6FD1E85669A01980BB8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2552...9923 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.17.239.6 (ssh-rsa key from 46.17.239.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (46.17.239.6.liquidtelecom.net. GB)
1576246;1480683925;walter_;yes, seems not discussed here, found nothing on qntra as well
1576247;1480684032;walter_;cannot tell if "good", but what got me interested is it was 1. written from scratch, 2. advertised "innovation" (fast transactions, hybrid PoW/PoS), 3. main dev sounds arrogant but competent
1576248;1480684054;mircea_popescu;lmao, what's with this anon derps taking pseudonyms from fiction ? john connor, really ?
1576249;1480684097;walter_;last week was full of entertaining events for this coin
1576250;1480684157;walter_;is it appropriate to discuss alts here?
1576251;1480684183;mircea_popescu;it's appropriate to discuss whatever's interesting.
1576252;1480684218;mircea_popescu;anywya, so obscure altcoin dropped 50% or something and there's some drama.
1576253;1480684254;shinohai;Sounds like the same thing that happens with almost *every altcoin
1576254;1480687354;mircea_popescu;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/KH6NE/?raw=true
1576255;1480687364;mircea_popescu;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rsbcG/?raw=true
1576256;1480687420;deedbot;accepted: 1
1576257;1480687420;deedbot;accepted: 1
1576258;1480688736;asciilifeform;http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38181158 << in other lulz
1576259;1480688791;mircea_popescu;"fake news" ie "not officially sanctioned lies"
1576260;1480688795;asciilifeform;'Sally Lehrman, founder of the Trust Project - an organisation set up to re-establish trust in mainstream media - told the BBC: "We don't know enough yet to know how it affected the election but we do know that fake news travels rapidly and it can change the conversation, not just by misinforming people but by focusing attention on something that may not be the issue. "It is a real danger to democracy."'
1576261;1480688801;asciilifeform;noshit
1576262;1480688833;mircea_popescu;"thios website is considered a questionable source" being the giveaway. i suppose the idea is thetimes.whitehouse.gov is unquestionable ?
1576263;1480688873;mircea_popescu;"i and other open source contributors" sez mr. sieradski. open source is starting to be quite shameful an association by now.
1576264;1480688891;asciilifeform;oh noez, not the tritler wh!111 cnn, nyt !!
1576265;1480689071;asciilifeform;latest word is that a list of sov^H^H^Hru 'stooges' is in the works, and who knows, isp filter
1576266;1480689093;asciilifeform;will be a lul to watch.
1576267;1480689098;mircea_popescu;oya.
1576268;1480689106;mircea_popescu;recall the 90s when all the bitching was on about china's firewall ?
1576269;1480689112;asciilifeform;aha!
1576270;1480689129;mircea_popescu;apparently the fact that it never worked worth a shit doesn't deter anyone. bureaucrats are not just stupid - but committed to stay that way.
1576271;1480689168;asciilifeform;hey - it's doubling down, or wagner+cyanide
1576272;1480689182;asciilifeform;afaik there is not a third
1576273;1480689188;mircea_popescu;at least wagner is good music.
1576274;1480689208;mircea_popescu;"doubling down" has a meaning, it's not "everything idiots do when not doing wagner+cyanide"
1576275;1480689229;mircea_popescu;just like investment has a meaning, it's not "anything idiots spend money on"
1576276;1480689266;asciilifeform;and 'programming ain't what php rats do' etc
1576277;1480689300;asciilifeform;everything ~had~, once, a meaning.
1576278;1480690183;*;mircea_popescu looks up meaning in gns, is unaffected.
1576279;1480690590;mircea_popescu;trinque here's a strategic point for your consideration : eulora will move to a rsa auth model sometime next year. this means the client generates itself a key, and talks to the server. i don't want to create a special deedbot for eulora, and so, how do we best interoperate them so that i have rate and deeds in-game ? (ideally the wot visualisations and other such beauty also)
1576280;1480690596;thestringpuller;Not that it does anything but no error when submitting blank form >> http://i.imgur.com/3mXz6CR.png
1576281;1480690677;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: that's a default eggog
1576282;1480690724;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: if you submit non-GPG it give you pretty error. again not that it matters...just a thing.
1576283;1480690770;mircea_popescu;not a very flattering eggog at that.
1576284;1480690967;asciilifeform;will fix, brb, tea.
1576285;1480692701;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7D71650BD79BBD83129590245BD93C5B90619E785ED717D688FCFB9FAFD50818 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1425...1713 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.125.180.127 (ssh-rsa key from 94.125.180.127 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.vitorla.com. HU)
1576286;1480692701;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/420578B02866959FA7F8E8C36B827E824A0B9CF6EFDFA6FD1E85669A01980BB8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1430...1099 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.17.239.6 (ssh-rsa key from 46.17.239.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (46.17.239.6.liquidtelecom.net. GB)
1576287;1480693043;mod6;<+jurov> mod6: fxd, when their cloudtron IP addresses change, must me manually updated in their firewall << ah, thanks jurov!
1576288;1480693057;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> dog. << lmao
1576289;1480693297;BingoBoingo;Butts
1576290;1480693493;asciilifeform;thestringpuller, mircea_popescu , et al: should be fixed nao.
1576291;1480693498;asciilifeform;abuse at will
1576292;1480693678;asciilifeform;ty for the eagle eye, thestringpuller .
1576293;1480693688;asciilifeform;and if anyone else notices an oddity of this kind, please ping asciilifeform .
1576294;1480693749;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576270 << imho this thread is worth expanding -- i remain unconvinced that chinese great firewall 'never worked'. it -- works, on the target audience.
1576295;1480693749;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 14:32 mircea_popescu: apparently the fact that it never worked worth a shit doesn't deter anyone. bureaucrats are not just stupid - but committed to stay that way.
1576296;1480693771;asciilifeform;that is to say, 'casual user' cattle browsing 'the news' on their pnojes while waiting for the train.
1576297;1480693870;mircea_popescu;everything works "on the target audience", especially if that's defined so as to make it seem to work. in which vein see also http://trilema.com/2016/consumerism-is-not-the-answer-though-it-will-put-you-to-sleep-or-american-history-x/#selection-91.0-111.1
1576298;1480693936;asciilifeform;well judge for yourself -- usg 'demoocracy'-spreading via twatter/arsebook/etc was successfully zapped. and no, not merely via 'great wall', but it was 'part of the balanced diet' of how.
1576299;1480693984;mircea_popescu;i don't perceive this.
1576300;1480693990;mircea_popescu;it spread exactly as much as it spread in poland.
1576301;1480694033;asciilifeform;consider the pathetic failure of the hk 'colour revolution'.
1576302;1480694070;mircea_popescu;stupid naturally herds together, and to very much the same degree. there isn't anything you can do about it, and ftr the shepherd FOLLOWS the herd, doesn't lead it. he may imagine he leads it, if it makes him feel better about living in the middle of nowhere among a pile of animal dung, but whatevers.
1576303;1480694080;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform consider you just said pnoje above. this settles the point.
1576304;1480694135;mircea_popescu;not like they're sitting around wearing kimonos and laughing at the idiocy of dicking around with a small plastic lavalamp.
1576305;1480694137;asciilifeform;i dun have a good eye inside cn. but from outside it would appear that it still belongs to the chinese, and is resistant to twitterocratization
1576306;1480694167;mircea_popescu;"the chinese" you use doesn't existg.
1576307;1480694174;asciilifeform;quite possibly.
1576308;1480694183;mircea_popescu;does the us "belong to americans" ?
1576309;1480694190;asciilifeform;it belongs to the earthworms.
1576310;1480694196;mircea_popescu;who, venezuelans ?
1576311;1480694225;mircea_popescu;syrian "color revolution" also fails. does syria belong to "the syrians" ?
1576312;1480694249;asciilifeform;'the americans' are no moar a civilization, to whom a continent can belong, than 'the romans' are today.
1576313;1480694251;mircea_popescu;who are these syrians / chinese / whatevers things belong to.
1576314;1480694262;asciilifeform;ditto 'the syrians'
1576315;1480694296;mircea_popescu;and the chinese can't afford to get married because bitch wants place to spawn and place to spawn within icbm distance of anything worth one's time cost 1mn+ ie five lifetimes.
1576316;1480694311;mircea_popescu;worse situation than sf. what exactly wasn't exported ?
1576317;1480694320;mircea_popescu;communist china worked like communist romania, fwiw.
1576318;1480694320;asciilifeform;if this is so (and i'll take mircea_popescu's intel for its word) they are on the american train to nowhere, then.
1576319;1480694329;mircea_popescu;stupid is on stupid train to stupid.
1576320;1480694333;mircea_popescu;this ain't about to change.
1576321;1480694356;asciilifeform;speaking of 'great walls', http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/12/01/taking-a-stand-against-unstable-risky-unofficial-ubuntu-images/
1576322;1480694367;mircea_popescu;heh.
1576323;1480694519;asciilifeform;and in yet-other lulz, http://qntra.net/2016/12/no-such-labs-unveils-fuckgoats/#comment-80421
1576324;1480694568;mircea_popescu;did you see the guy who had a "for free just as good version" consisting of buying a software radio thing (for slightly more than what FUCKGOATS costs) and you know, listening to man made "entropy"
1576325;1480694590;asciilifeform;i have that radio
1576326;1480694601;mircea_popescu;if any kind of divinity existed this sort of truth-symmetrical idiocy would provoke thunderstorms.
1576327;1480694603;asciilifeform;it was ultra-popular at one time, and remains useful 'poor man's sigint' tool
1576328;1480694651;asciilifeform;world's cheapest 40MHz-2GHz receiver (with terrible snr, but what can you do)
1576329;1480694827;mircea_popescu;aha.
1576330;1480694832;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/829D7AF9CA36744B0FA7458BD2E8394CC37B685C25AF7AEC8D0DB44D507482A9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1535...4373 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.203.206.158 (ssh-rsa key from 89.203.206.158 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-89-203-206-158.ktkadan.cz. CZ)
1576331;1480694878;mircea_popescu;i suppose getting two tuned to the same frequency and then debiasing them together may result in something (precisely because taking advantage of n in that horrible snr). otherwise with a single item... tough.
1576332;1480694913;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: problem is not that you cannot turn a radio-in-faraday-cage into a baroque version of FUCKGOATS
1576333;1480694939;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: problem is that the thing hangs on a megatonne of open Sores shitware that is >trb-sized
1576334;1480694948;asciilifeform;that nobody has read, or ever will read,
1576335;1480694958;asciilifeform;nor is it quite known wtf is inside the chip
1576336;1480694977;asciilifeform;a quite separate problem, and anyone who ACTUALLY owns the rtlsdr unit knows of it, is the usb
1576337;1480694983;asciilifeform;thing interferes with itself quite painfully
1576338;1480695072;mircea_popescu;aha. hence my comment re thunderstorms and truth-symmetrical.
1576339;1480695417;asciilifeform;though i may have explained this before, long ago in the l0gz, it is NOT difficult to make a quite acceptable trng
1576340;1480695458;asciilifeform;the difficulty comes when you wish to make one that remains cryptologically acceptable when it becomes a mass-produced and published product.
1576341;1480695504;asciilifeform;to take example, if mircea_popescu generates keys using cuntmusculature noise, using dildonic myographs, this is bulletproof UNTIL enemy finds out and sends specially-trained pulsator gurls to long-game infiltrate harem etc.
1576342;1480695532;mircea_popescu;aha.
1576343;1480695571;mircea_popescu;come to think about it - maybe i should do exactly that.
1576344;1480695582;mircea_popescu;get the enemy incentives correctly alligned.
1576345;1480695621;*;asciilifeform pictures a dildonic analogue end for FUCKGOATS
1576346;1480695663;asciilifeform;i still wonder how come nobody, afaik, ever even once sold rng where the debiaser and analogue halves came apart.
1576347;1480695672;asciilifeform;it is pretty obvious cut imho.
1576348;1480695855;mircea_popescu;before the republic nobody seriously contemplated, let alone put resources towards, most sane ends and goals.
1576349;1480695888;thestringpuller;in shitfone news: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/11/1-million-android-accounts-compromised-by-android-malware-called-gooligan/
1576350;1480695895;mircea_popescu;and this includes "cyberpunks" and whatever else - they still thought in terms of "the country" and bartlesian "in the end '''real''' life aka socialism prevails"
1576351;1480695901;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: iirc this was in the l0gz a few days ago
1576352;1480695924;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'suckless' folx , afaik, came the closest
1576353;1480695942;mircea_popescu;possibru
1576354;1480696902;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-november-2016-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), November 2016 Statement
1576355;1480697261;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phyqYbmiWUo << in other chtonian horrors
1576356;1480697314;asciilifeform;^ dope experts! which dope was responsible ?
1576357;1480699003;mircea_popescu;jenkem
1576358;1480699050;mircea_popescu;wtf is with the whiny beseeching voice omfg.
1576359;1480699056;asciilifeform;ikr?
1576360;1480699068;asciilifeform;though it may be for theatrical effect, considering subj
1576361;1480699447;mircea_popescu;"A report from BuzzFeed found that, in the final three months of the US presidential campaign, the top-performing fake election news stories on Facebook generated more engagement than the top stories from major news outlets such as the New York Times, Washington Post, Huffington Post, NBC News and others." <<->> http://trilema.com/2016/the-war-with-the-press/
1576362;1480699455;mircea_popescu;somehow the OBVIOUS inference isn't drawn from this.
1576363;1480699538;mircea_popescu;the very evident "new york times, washington / huffington post etc do not produce strings worth more per megabyte than any other markov process" is elided in favour of "we shall label this failure of ours in terms of an external phenomenon and posture really convincingly about it". really, is it "being investigated" ? who the fuck is the agent in that agentless phrase and who the fuck's gonna supply the army.
1576364;1480699543;asciilifeform;what obvious, wreckerz!11111 listening to voice of ame^H^H^Hrt on illicitly modified radios in kitchens
1576365;1480699638;mircea_popescu;Sally Lehrman, founder of the Trust Project - an organisation set up to re-establish trust in mainstream media - told the BBC: "We don't know enough yet to know how it affected the election but we do know that fake news travels rapidly and it can change the conversation, not just by misinforming people but by focusing attention on something that may not be the issue. It is a real danger to democracy."
1576366;1480699642;mircea_popescu;so fucking endearing i swear.
1576367;1480699679;asciilifeform;was in today's log..
1576368;1480699692;mircea_popescu;o look, they "hosted a hackathon"
1576369;1480699696;phf;"misinforming people"
1576370;1480699701;mircea_popescu;can i just buy a hackathon keychain already ?
1576371;1480699712;*;asciilifeform to this very day has nfi what precisely is a 'hackathon'
1576372;1480699731;mircea_popescu;they're looking to farm trust. ANYTHING but the fucking obvious - stop supporting socialism already!
1576373;1480699734;asciilifeform;for some reason i always picture it as one of those basque wood-chopping competitions
1576374;1480699833;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i imagine what they mean by hackathon is one of those pbs donation drives. except instead of girls at phones now they have boys at keyboards.
1576375;1480699850;mircea_popescu;as per "boys worth bent bottlecap per head ; girls slightly more" economic imperative.
1576376;1480699947;phf;hackathon is a period of time for exclusively remote teams to get together and work on some problems that benefit from face to face, or more generally a period of uninterrupted work done by an asynchronous team. that's the original and the only meaning in the spirit of "consult the dictionary"
1576377;1480699965;mircea_popescu;no, that's a gathering.
1576378;1480699971;mircea_popescu;the 0day scene did these in the 80s
1576379;1480699996;mircea_popescu;i'd say the release groups being the first and to date the best example of async teams solving problems that benefit from face to face.
1576380;1480700118;phf;true, i was a small child then, but my first exposure to gatherings were through demoscene
1576381;1480700132;phf;(in the 90s)
1576382;1480700142;mircea_popescu;and since we're on it, i'd say the scene was the early republic, not derpy "cyberpunks/cypherpuns/whatever"
1576383;1480700170;*;asciilifeform watched the 'demos', but had nfi where they came from and how they were made.
1576384;1480700205;asciilifeform;quite a few marvels of asm
1576385;1480700213;asciilifeform;and of mathematical wizardry.
1576386;1480700221;mircea_popescu;europe, mostly.
1576387;1480700244;mircea_popescu;back when /me still had a lot of faith in humanity, /me still didn't give a rat's ass about the us.
1576388;1480700412;asciilifeform;iirc 'amiga' was still king in '80s europe
1576389;1480700417;asciilifeform;(west europe)
1576390;1480700431;mircea_popescu;nah, z80, usually as a commodore
1576391;1480700472;asciilifeform;commodore (with the exception of the weirdo dual-cpu variant of the '128', and an expander cartridge for 64 ) -- never sold a z80
1576392;1480700474;phf;i heard about amiga prods, but at least in moscows i didn't know anyone who had it
1576393;1480700511;asciilifeform;afaik ~nobody had an amiga in sovblok
1576394;1480700521;phf;i mean all the tools were ports from amiga. "nah, you don't use photoshop, here's this thing that we ported from amiga"
1576395;1480700529;asciilifeform;deluxepaint!11111
1576396;1480700531;mircea_popescu;ah right you are, the 64 was the mos
1576397;1480700552;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 6510 (6502 variant with 6 extra programmable pins)
1576398;1480700597;asciilifeform;nothing was wasted, one of the pins controlled ultra-cheap tape deck i/o, the rest - banked addr space
1576399;1480700606;phf;asciilifeform: yep, grafx2 in its DOS incarnation
1576400;1480700623;asciilifeform;(which is how you could USE all 64k , you could switch off the rom on the c64)
1576401;1480700640;mircea_popescu;aha.
1576402;1480700646;asciilifeform;phf: actually i had ~standard~ deluxepaint for msdos
1576403;1480700649;asciilifeform;it was ported.
1576404;1480700759;phf;i might've seen that, but i don't think i saw it until after i moved to u.s.
1576405;1480700803;mircea_popescu;"Keep in mind we do all this, because we can and because we like the thrilling excitement of winning over the other competing groups. We absolutely don't do all these releases, to please the general user that rather want to spend their cash on updating to the latest hardware, and see's the scene releases as a source to play all these games for free." << all the way down to despising the consumer / i just want to jwz.
1576406;1480700839;asciilifeform;at one point virii artists etc. also worked like this
1576407;1480700858;mircea_popescu;at one point everything worth the mention worked like this ; it being the only way things can work.
1576408;1480700879;mircea_popescu;the common man is here to be cut up and the meat fried, not running fucking "democracies" and making "choices" and whatnot.
1576409;1480700960;asciilifeform;imho the interesting question is why it always seems to turn from one into the other
1576410;1480700971;mircea_popescu;cuz kids want to get in.
1576411;1480700976;asciilifeform;(from 'demo scene' to 'spamola scene')
1576412;1480700985;phf;i remember taking linear algebra course in u.s. college, sort of mildly excited "finally learn this shit proper!" just to realize that my level of knowledge by then was grad research level. stopped showing up half way through, just taking tests..
1576413;1480701215;phf;but i was going to say, amusingly enough the whole "cyberpunk/cypherpunk/whatever" thing came from san francisco, and that's what all the jwzs grew up with. "mondo" which later became "boing boing" (and had a blog with same name in the early 2000s) http://theendofbeing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/defd4d784f2e7c1978d81b99904c7869_large.jpg http://sangbleumagazine.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Mondo-1.jpg
1576414;1480701247;asciilifeform;lel deadtree digerati mags
1576415;1480701263;phf;was sort of notorious for publishing "cyber speculative" nonsense in the style of whatshisname, rock singer
1576416;1480701264;mircea_popescu;myeah. essentially california didn't start sucking now, or last year, or last decade. intellectually speaking it was always nothing. it sucked in 1990 like it sucked in 1960 and 1930.
1576417;1480701267;asciilifeform;funnily enough asciilifeform never touched one, except for a very sad mid-2000s post-degringolade issue of '2600'
1576418;1480701290;asciilifeform;gurl had it
1576419;1480701317;phf;billy idol
1576420;1480701329;phf;"floppy drives are so HOT this year"
1576421;1480701420;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: california may have sucked , but apparently evil martians put shockley and fairchild there as a joke upon us earthlings , to see 'what if idiot farmer wins lottery'
1576422;1480701422;asciilifeform;and so we have it.
1576423;1480701433;mircea_popescu;and it ran off to china.
1576424;1480701445;mircea_popescu;suprise surprise, lottery windfall finds its way out
1576425;1480701498;mircea_popescu;and for the record, this has been ongoing. in 1916 it was EXACTLY the same nonsense "oh, california is coming in a big way, let's move the theatrical company over".
1576426;1480701527;mircea_popescu;place's been coming in a big way since the 1859 gold find put it on the map, and throughout this century and a half it never ammounted to more than high rents and jam tomorrow.
1576427;1480701541;asciilifeform;so now the high rents are in pekin.
1576428;1480701558;asciilifeform;(as per earlier thread)
1576429;1480701582;asciilifeform;possibly 'california' is doomed to exist somewhere, even if it has legs and occasionally moves..?
1576430;1480701609;mircea_popescu;about 2k for a 900sqft furnished in downtown shanghai
1576431;1480701628;asciilifeform;~= here
1576432;1480701663;asciilifeform;(with possible difference that, last i heard, shanghai flat doesn't always come with breathable air)
1576433;1480701683;mircea_popescu;neither does washington
1576434;1480701703;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is misinformed, we get air here, but now on other hand, water...
1576435;1480701716;mircea_popescu;ah!
1576436;1480701767;asciilifeform;post-industial hellholes like (most of) usa have great air.
1576437;1480701773;asciilifeform;*industrial
1576438;1480702274;mircea_popescu;oomfg artstudio!
1576439;1480702275;ben_vulpes;but the sunsets are so boring now
1576440;1480702275;mircea_popescu;jesus.
1576441;1480702283;*;mircea_popescu just ran emulated artstudio
1576442;1480702314;*;asciilifeform occasionally STILL runs emulated 'deluxepaint'
1576443;1480702326;asciilifeform;it beats the shit out of 'gimp' et al in some respects
1576444;1480702349;*;phf uses grafx2 port as main and only graphics editor
1576445;1480702483;mircea_popescu;i can't say i ever used either that much to tell, but i did fuck around with art studio a lot as a 6 yo
1576446;1480703523;mircea_popescu;phf incidentally, to round the thing, let's compare the 90s compo with the 2010s hackathon. o, that's right, these lame kids come from schools with no grades! the concept of there being a winner, of choice and hierarchy is all but lost.
1576447;1480703526;mircea_popescu;i see! heh.
1576448;1480703569;mircea_popescu;the focus moves from achievement to "we were physically together tapping keys for a time" i nthe exact same sense iranian women hang out together in the kitchen. "participative experience".
1576449;1480703581;mircea_popescu;the only possible end result of which is being fucked.
1576450;1480703868;phf;"i have this idea for a project, maybe i'll complete it by the end, or maybe i won't even start, so what are you working on?"
1576451;1480703886;mircea_popescu;"i got a bun in the oven, or maybe i'm just late, does ivan still drink ?"
1576452;1480703906;phf;hehe
1576453;1480703942;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576153 yup.
1576454;1480703942;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 10:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576123 << isn't he the guy that started the whole wedding bombing trend ?
1576455;1480703955;mats;at least half a dozen by my count
1576456;1480704344;phf;i met this small family of germans on a vacation growing up, and they were very visceral, roughing and tumbling with each other, and when i joined in their play, it was tough, they'd punch hard and try and sink you in the pool, but they acted same way with each other and just generally enjoyed what was happening. in fact i'm pretty sure they took it easy on me. i remembering thinking that they were like wolf cubs (they were from Dresden
1576457;1480704345;phf;so Berlin boys at the same hotel would rag on them, but from remote, because thems berlins boys were much more into talking)
1576458;1480704440;phf;people i knew back home were much more into verbal sparring, but following the same principles, you enter into dialog take a lot of abuse hope to come out on top, but at the end everyone's friends
1576459;1480704500;asciilifeform;i thought that all children played like this...
1576460;1480704510;phf;when i came to u.s. my biggest surprise was that locals are into neither. you try and rough them up they think you some kind of crazy person, you try and get them into a debate they get all scared and confused.
1576461;1480704571;phf;asciilifeform: well, not unless both forms of behavior are "developmental issues"
1576462;1480704588;trinque;US is not a homogenous ball of gray goo
1576463;1480704595;trinque;sounds perfectly southern to me
1576464;1480704619;phf;trinque: yes yes that's why i prefer going sporting with rednecks and southerners, they don't cry about things
1576465;1480704625;asciilifeform;aha, in the 'black schools' there is neverending fight, like in a prison, and even bouncers to pry apart especially eager folk. and everyone with 'room temperature iq' however you measure it, also
1576466;1480704652;*;trinque prefers rednecks as well
1576467;1480704683;*;asciilifeform mostly prefers distance, garden, solitude.
1576468;1480704707;trinque;Tacoma Washington suddenly sprung to mind
1576469;1480704745;phf;or olympia
1576470;1480704784;trinque;in the mountains up there'd be great for hermitage
1576471;1480704835;asciilifeform;on dirigible - yet moar. and on mars - more still.
1576472;1480705289;*;mats has a great travel poster of olympus mons
1576473;1480705308;mats;https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex/17504334828
1576474;1480705350;mats;spacex got the idea from this set: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/visions-of-the-future
1576475;1480705403;asciilifeform;'spacex' is every bit as usg as nasa, but is part of the 2000s 'lean usg', if you will, concept; sorta like thiel's palantir is 'lean nsa'
1576476;1480705406;mats;i'd have asked that canadian fella to print all the spacex and nasa sets on canvas but he had to go and be retarded, so...
1576477;1480705414;asciilifeform;they are in the gorbachev 'kooperativ' phase
1576478;1480705426;asciilifeform;where 'we will do same retarded Empire thing but CHEAPER, EFFICIENT' because 'private'
1576479;1480705545;trinque;mats: that series of posters was pretty damn good
1576480;1480705649;mats;i have half a dozen of them hanging and another ten or eleven in a crate
1576481;1480705689;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561465 << also re spacex
1576482;1480705689;a111;Logged on 2016-11-01 21:29 asciilifeform: trinque: consider: a 'saturn' and the maersk cargo fleet cost similarly. but they are unlike: 'saturn' is a cult/religious object (in the sense where nobody seriously attempts to calculate its roi) , rather more like the great pyramids.
1576483;1480706034;mats;this will sound naive, but humans in outer space represents an ideal of social cooperation and unity of purpose - against the environment trying to kill us - that i feel we've long since lost
1576484;1480706061;phf;apropos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSHtoild-Q4
1576485;1480706153;mats;i mean specifically the folks ~in space~ rather than those on earth, aspiring to be there. no longer taking free air, water, food for granted, cooperating to survive in vacuum or organizing as a society to terraform $planet
1576486;1480706203;phf;according neil stephenson in such a situation only womens will survive
1576487;1480706370;mats;in what novel
1576488;1480706396;phf;seveneves
1576489;1480706418;phf;also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-29#1441666
1576490;1480706418;a111;Logged on 2016-03-29 17:58 asciilifeform: phf: seveneves was a misery
1576491;1480706473;ben_vulpes;mats: also entirely unprecedented
1576492;1480706499;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576279 << I'm certainly open to discussing this. I'll give it some thought and then raise the thread.
1576493;1480706499;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 14:56 mircea_popescu: trinque here's a strategic point for your consideration : eulora will move to a rsa auth model sometime next year. this means the client generates itself a key, and talks to the server. i don't want to create a special deedbot for eulora, and so, how do we best interoperate them so that i have rate and deeds in-game ? (ideally the wot visualisations and other such beauty also)
1576494;1480706581;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-28#1574049 << worth bringing this in too, in considering WoT as more widely-used infrastructure
1576495;1480706581;a111;Logged on 2016-11-28 18:37 asciilifeform: wot rating is the one scenario that most screamingly calls for attributable proclamation.
1576496;1480706652;trinque;I lean towards flipping the model to "decrypt and sign this command + OTP" vs "decrypt and send in the clear this OTP"
1576497;1480706691;trinque;especially as relates to the payments system
1576498;1480706703;trinque;in regards to WoT, it allows me to at any time rebuild the graph with certainty
1576499;1480706803;mats;ben_vulpes: certainly.
1576500;1480706888;mats;i grew up violently scolded whenever i'd leave meat on bones, grains of rice behind on the plate, and i've carried this discipline through to adulthood
1576501;1480706947;trinque;how does scarcity evaluate to cooperation and unity in your mind?
1576502;1480706950;mats;simultaneously growing up in america among the wastage and vast consumption culture, the whole thing is ugly to its core
1576503;1480707005;*;trinque would not hate life as a space pirate
1576504;1480707009;mats;in vaccuum - every grain is consumed, every ml of urine recovered
1576505;1480707392;trinque;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Lm39N?raw=true << attributable and ordered rating
1576506;1480707466;phf;what's the 441599?
1576507;1480707470;trinque;block height
1576508;1480707475;phf;ah
1576509;1480707480;trinque;could just as well have been "1"
1576510;1480707499;trinque;but I like the stardate being present
1576511;1480707547;trinque;if ratings were this kind of material I could chatter them to anyone interested as they are received, and conceivably "only chatter me things about the L2 of <key>"
1576512;1480707639;trinque;under the present scheme I could do the same, but have to trust the wire to be honest, or find a better wire, which proceeds towards dragging gossipd in as a dependency
1576513;1480707668;danielpbarron;this is counter the the gossipd model of "i heard so-and-so said whatever"
1576514;1480707700;trinque;I understood it to be able to do both attributable and non-attributable statements
1576515;1480707723;trinque;but at any rate, making the WoT something that can be rebuilt from public information when I am dead is a good thing
1576516;1480707827;danielpbarron;so then dump your copy of it and sign it periodically
1576517;1480707861;trinque;that is in no way equivalent
1576518;1480708071;trinque;in one case, both parties can verify a rating using the rating material itself.
1576519;1480708081;trinque;in the other, we must trust my server is perfect, our logs are perfect, and so on
1576520;1480708096;danielpbarron;i don't see the benefit in signing the rating string; if it gets mitm'd it won't match on the bot's end and the user will clearly see something is amiss
1576521;1480708144;asciilifeform;ratings are the one clearest case for 'must stand alone'
1576522;1480708159;danielpbarron;there is no "verifying a rating" beyond asking the rater yourself
1576523;1480708172;asciilifeform;as in, you should be able to verify it solely by possessing the rating + the pubkey of the rater.
1576524;1480708182;trinque;danielpbarron: how do you justify signing anything by this logic ?
1576525;1480708187;asciilifeform;^
1576526;1480708196;trinque;verifying his signature *is asking him*
1576527;1480708213;danielpbarron;trinque, so that two parties can know they have the same text
1576528;1480708241;asciilifeform;i dun see the 'win' from encouraging people to byzantiate and twofaced lie and give different answer to X and to Y regarding how they rate Z.
1576529;1480708245;danielpbarron;no, verifying the sig is asking who he once was
1576530;1480708248;asciilifeform;ergo -- sign the fucking rating.
1576531;1480708330;danielpbarron;i thought this was already done in the log : suppose i give +5 one day and -10 the next? without the latter it would appear i trust the guy -- WITH SIGNATURE!!!
1576532;1480708376;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: guess what, if you had flown to alpha centauri before mtgox died... etc
1576533;1480708406;asciilifeform;there is not a cure for this, other than to stay 'in the light cone'
1576534;1480708408;trinque;danielpbarron: I recently signed my IPs for various servers
1576535;1480708417;trinque;if I go change them, yes, signed material does not update
1576536;1480708429;trinque;which does not invalidate that at the time of signature they were precisely the statement I made
1576537;1480708444;trinque;your observation is misapplied; the signature does not say "for all time"
1576538;1480708449;asciilifeform;a signature simply states that 'at time t, the following...'
1576539;1480708452;trinque;it says "this was precisely the state of this text at time"
1576540;1480708455;trinque;aha
1576541;1480708465;asciilifeform;or, more rigorously, 'at time >= t'
1576542;1480708478;asciilifeform;because the only reasonably rigid 'nail' to nail it down with is blockhash
1576543;1480708503;trinque;and lets not soften the definitions of things because "o no too hard"
1576544;1480708504;danielpbarron;that's what sigs are for, one-off "maje sure you get this text unmolested" ; ~not~ here is a public record of official signed things
1576545;1480708528;trinque;you'll have to define your terms if you want to proceed
1576546;1480708535;trinque;wtf does "official signed things" mean here
1576547;1480708551;danielpbarron;like your WoT ratings
1576548;1480708581;trinque;how do I currently know by looking at my database that no item in it was altered by somebody spraying bits into my server via network card -> dma
1576549;1480708614;trinque;or for that matter verify anything I got from assbot or prior
1576550;1480708622;danielpbarron;compare it with a signed backup you made?
1576551;1480708646;danielpbarron;after somebody complains that it's showing the wrong thing
1576552;1480708790;asciilifeform;danielpbarron's argument, if i understand it, is that folx are doomed to have to ask, e.g., mircea_popescu directly, for mircea_popescu's ratings, because otherwise enemy can win against, e.g., danielpbarron, by locking him inside a bottle where mircea_popescu's ancient and long-revoked rating of magicaltux still stands because signed ??
1576553;1480708819;trinque;this bottle is also somehow distinct from the bottle where deedbot is currently lying to him
1576554;1480708821;danielpbarron;yes that's part of it
1576555;1480708849;asciilifeform;trinque: that is the weak point, precisely
1576556;1480708853;asciilifeform;he is already in this bottle
1576557;1480708863;asciilifeform;and the more unsigned payload one relies upon, the more so you live in the bottle.
1576558;1480708908;asciilifeform;when mircea_popescu wrote the piece where 'sex -- with people, business -- with keys' - what does danielpbarron suppose he meant ?
1576559;1480708921;danielpbarron;the ratings are a guide. the WoT is people. do you think this whole chat has been mitm'd for the last howevermany years and nobody noticed?
1576560;1480708934;asciilifeform;the wot is made of what? not of ratings ?
1576561;1480709000;trinque;lets walk it the other direction
1576562;1480709008;danielpbarron;the rating guides you to the person who you may they request signed materian
1576563;1480709014;trinque;danielpbarron: what if I just allow whoever currently is set as "nick" to rate as "nick"
1576564;1480709019;trinque;if not why not
1576565;1480709032;phf;what i got from the argument last time is that wot ratings don't need that sort of meticulous bureaucratic audit trail. my personal inclination is to of course specify and sign and process (plus it would be cool to have own fork of wot maintained by own means), but i'm not sure i disagree with the first point
1576566;1480709062;trinque;"don't need" is the sort of squishy lazy compromise that'd better have a reason
1576567;1480709069;trinque;or else get off ass and do better
1576568;1480709072;mats;FUCKGOATS is impressive, thanks asciilifeform
1576569;1480709086;trinque;this fucking "don't need" argument is why people md5, https, whatever
1576570;1480709092;*;mats prepares order
1576571;1480709110;trinque;I am still waiting to hear why I shouldn't just rely on freenode's auth system to process ratings
1576572;1480709113;danielpbarron;trinque, not; at least in current model only the bot is the iffy part. my decryption of the string proves tothe bot that i am me
1576573;1480709115;trinque;after all good enough
1576574;1480709130;trinque;I am aware of how the bot works; answer my actual question
1576575;1480709172;phf;trinque: we trust you, it's in the wot. and if you break the wot we'll rate you negatively using the wot :)
1576576;1480709178;trinque;so we've found the "sweet spot" where we have removed enough untrustworthy components and might as well settle down and have kids / get fat here?
1576577;1480709215;trinque;phf: yeah I'm not taking responsibility for the next exploit in all this garbage tyvm
1576578;1480709461;asciilifeform;trinque: ratings are one of the very few things for which the case for signature is screamingly clear
1576579;1480709471;trinque;I'd have thought so.
1576580;1480709486;asciilifeform;yes, enemy can lock you in a cave and show you old ratings until you die of old age
1576581;1480709496;trinque;perhaps danielpbarron thinks we should prune our blockchains of all blocks without unspent outputs too
1576582;1480709511;trinque;because we all know the system has always worked
1576583;1480709517;asciilifeform;and if you are dumb enough not to notice that you are in the cave, and relied on unsigned ratings, he can now also show you wholly-fictitious ones.
1576584;1480709518;phf;trinque: why not? my responsibility, the log, failed as a combination of things inside of my control and outside of my control. i apologized and tried better next time. it's not a bad system.
1576585;1480709539;trinque;phf: we agree there.
1576586;1480709544;trinque;what I mean is, you were not impaled.
1576587;1480709553;trinque;:p
1576588;1480709573;trinque;so then why is danielpbarron getting in the way of me trying "better next time"
1576589;1480709587;trinque;in advance, rather than once upon a fuckup
1576590;1480709602;mats;eagerness
1576591;1480709633;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's original 'gossiptronic' argument -- and i suppose he can elaborate when he wakes up -- was that a signature is a kind of autonomous and indestructible truth-telling robot, that can be of use to the enemy if one is not careful about when you create it and out of what
1576592;1480709656;phf;he's arguing a position against yours. he's not getting in your way. perhaps he's trying to say that he's not particularly eager to have dozens of his own signatures floating around with some opaque digital data in there directed at machine?
1576593;1480709670;danielpbarron;^
1576594;1480709672;asciilifeform;a signed rating is a correct use of the robot. in fact vtronics consists entirely of this type of thing
1576595;1480709674;trinque;I didn't hear a position other than "not needed"
1576596;1480709680;trinque;that isn't a statement with content
1576597;1480709683;asciilifeform;when i sign phf's patch, i have 'posrated' the patch.
1576598;1480709697;trinque;aha
1576599;1480709710;danielpbarron;my argument isn't "not needed" ; it's that it's dangerous
1576600;1480709731;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: please paint a picture for us, of the danger
1576601;1480709736;asciilifeform;a gedankenexperiment.
1576602;1480709737;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576544
1576603;1480709737;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:55 danielpbarron: that's what sigs are for, one-off "maje sure you get this text unmolested" ; ~not~ here is a public record of official signed things
1576604;1480709791;asciilifeform;one reason why signatures are a uniquely useful things is that they can outlive creator.
1576605;1480709812;phf;ratings are meaningless though without the creator
1576606;1480709821;asciilifeform;here's where apparently i disagree.
1576607;1480709822;danielpbarron;i don't see how that's useful in the WoT
1576608;1480709828;asciilifeform;they are of no use without creator's pubkey, yes.
1576609;1480709849;trinque;the fact is preserved that he who had this key said X
1576610;1480709852;asciilifeform;with signatures a 'donation of constantine' scenario falls immediately out.
1576611;1480709861;phf;asciilifeform: no no that's sort of like the "what's the wot" article. the "number is meaningless without asking the creator" part
1576612;1480709862;trinque;if you put something in the signed material that gives when, that, also
1576613;1480709877;asciilifeform;phf: forget the number. there are only 3 numbers that matter, -1,0,1.
1576614;1480709882;trinque;k conflated here is "this was said" vs "what it means"
1576615;1480709885;asciilifeform;and these --- matter.
1576616;1480709897;trinque;I am only interested in the hardening of the former
1576617;1480709960;asciilifeform;granted i can easily see how danielpbarron might have come upon his position, given as he practices a religion based on stuffing words into the mouth of long-dead fella
1576618;1480709976;danielpbarron;i think it's even dangerous to use sigs to preserve things in stone like that. shouldn't be more than a tool to ensure we're talking about the same text. tge signed material doesn't enforce itself. otherwise we're off into smart contract territory
1576619;1480710005;asciilifeform;without these 'stones', there is no one who is talking.
1576620;1480710033;asciilifeform;only idiots sitting in caves and each watching unique apocryphal usg film of his own.
1576621;1480710045;phf;this is a very beurocratic position
1576622;1480710051;*;asciilifeform bbl, the lattices are here!!
1576623;1480710067;phf;you're redefining the meaning of wot "for sekuriti!!1"
1576624;1480710150;trinque;"meh, data integrity is your job :^)" << >> "alright, I want fucking signed material then"
1576625;1480710171;trinque;this is emphatically "I just want to" use it the way it is
1576626;1480710215;phf;you don't want to even hear the opposing side so resort to constructing strawmen
1576627;1480710225;trinque;what did I not hear, exactly?
1576628;1480710252;danielpbarron;signed ratings, to me, seems like it mostly benifits random newcomer/evesdropper with little to no benefit for actual users
1576629;1480710266;trinque;phf: how the fuck do I parse a statement like that ^
1576630;1480710275;trinque;where does it fit in the model of the discussion so far ?
1576631;1480710284;trinque;it's just another ad hoc "I feel X"
1576632;1480710299;phf;trinque: i ~understood~ what he said, and it's an additional point unrelated to his previous argumnt
1576633;1480710372;mats;strong words here, lets be pals
1576634;1480710379;trinque;who's negrating anyone ?
1576635;1480710388;danielpbarron;i've been reading the log for years. i'd very much like to see someone hack the bot and change ratings. let enemy make a fool of himself
1576636;1480710473;trinque;"he can fuck my wife; his dick's small anyway"
1576637;1480710476;trinque;lel
1576638;1480710478;jurov;lol actually it was not hacked. just forked.
1576639;1480710528;jurov;and good luck for someone comingoutside to determine from ratings wtf happened with bitbet
1576640;1480710533;jurov;*from outside
1576641;1480710547;jurov;was that the argiument?
1576642;1480710551;danielpbarron;the fork happened in the channel. we all read about it. whereas a hack would have no context to back the rating up
1576643;1480710560;phf;the architecture ~right now~ is as secure as your setup. there's no way to mitm wot ratings. if there's an error in wot, there's not even a point to start a stink. you go and fix the rating if you changed it drunk, or you let trinque know that there's some serious issue. we unroll last week's signed wot and proceed from there
1576644;1480710606;phf;the proposed alternative provides a verifiable audit trail of all the ratings made by everyone, without necessary solving mitm problems
1576645;1480710667;danielpbarron;it was my understanding that we specifically don't want such an audit trail
1576646;1480710688;phf;that was the conclusion of the thread last time we had this conversation, yes
1576647;1480710689;trinque;speak instead of what you want, eh?
1576648;1480710727;danielpbarron;i agree with that conclusion
1576649;1480710765;trinque;great, but I'm discussing providing something as a service as a matter of business.
1576650;1480710806;trinque;I'm not going to provide Eulora infrastructure with a standard of "if something fucks up, eh, we'll go back and fix it later"
1576651;1480710853;phf;i missed the part where wot was going to be integrated into eulora? i know that deedbot was mentioned
1576652;1480710868;danielpbarron;the eulora rsa isn't the same as WoT is it?
1576653;1480710902;danielpbarron;i mean i'm not gonna put my key on a networked machine
1576654;1480710903;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576492 << twas the very beginning of the discussin.
1576655;1480710903;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:21 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576279 << I'm certainly open to discussing this. I'll give it some thought and then raise the thread.
1576656;1480710905;trinque;*ioin
1576657;1480710907;trinque;eh fuck, lag
1576658;1480710935;danielpbarron;so i assumed people would still have to resister their actual key with the bot prior to getting their eulora account
1576659;1480710983;trinque;says rates and deeds in-game there
1576660;1480711058;danielpbarron;ok. so then let eulora dump and sign its ratings periodically. i don't see why you shouldn't trust it to give you the correct data
1576661;1480711079;trinque;you are arguing *from* a conclusion rather than towards one
1576662;1480711091;trinque;so give me your perspective from the other direction.
1576663;1480711109;phf;trinque: he doesn't want an audit trail of ratings.
1576664;1480711115;trinque;why!!!
1576665;1480711132;trinque;that is a purpose. "so that I do not have an audit trail"
1576666;1480711155;trinque;and I already know, "because then people can grab an item from the trail and say that's HEAD"
1576667;1480711163;danielpbarron;i agree the ratings should be signed when sent over wire (to preserve the text) but there is no reason the sigs need to be around each individual rating
1576668;1480711179;trinque;imagine I'm a bot saying why after every danielpbarron
1576669;1480711206;trinque;because it is upon me to keep the integrity of the db?
1576670;1480711218;trinque;if so, I say fine, I choose the tool called cryptography to do so
1576671;1480711220;danielpbarron;trinque, also because fuck anyone who wants my ratings. anyone who has business in seeing them already has means to
1576672;1480711223;phf;trinque: because ratings doesn't have meaning at all outside of rater
1576673;1480711237;phf;*don't
1576674;1480711281;phf;~i~ see it as an equivalent of signing and stamping every page of notebook "for integrity"
1576675;1480711290;phf;*of my notebook
1576676;1480711297;trinque;it is not your notebook; I am holding it
1576677;1480711328;trinque;why is my claim "this is page x of phf's notebook" good enough here, but my claim "phf paid me 1000 BTC" is not good enough ?
1576678;1480711330;phf;it's a metaphor, you can find all kinds of ways to invalidate it, i was hoping it might clarify understanding
1576679;1480711344;trinque;sure, I'm just sparring back!
1576680;1480711351;trinque;works pretty well I hear
1576681;1480711393;phf;yes, but i understand you, and you don't understand me, there's really no point in sparing until there's a mutual disagreement over shared understanding. this is like sparring 101
1576682;1480711450;asciilifeform;not one of you is taking seriously the 'how to leave a good looking and proper corpse' problem, are you.
1576683;1480711463;asciilifeform;reminds me of tale from albert speer's book about ruins
1576684;1480711494;asciilifeform;during dinner with hitler et al, speer (among other things, reichsminister of architecture) made a comment about 'one problem, our concrete houses will leave very poor ruins'
1576685;1480711502;asciilifeform;table fell silent, because omfg defeatism wtf
1576686;1480711505;phf;asciilifeform: i understood your take and i think that wot is a poor defense against "good looking corpse" problem
1576687;1480711520;asciilifeform;but fuhrer wisely replied, 'it is true, we must think about how to leave good ruins, no one lives forever.'
1576688;1480711523;asciilifeform;supposedly.
1576689;1480711526;*;asciilifeform wasn't there.
1576690;1480711570;asciilifeform;phf: if pubkey is preserved, and privkey of dead man -- well-destroyed, suddenly the 'donation of constantine' problem evaporates.
1576691;1480711580;trinque;phf: I understood, and it would make more sense then to have a way of querying phf for his notebook
1576692;1480711583;asciilifeform;i would like to hear some kind of logical counter to this statement. and still have not.
1576693;1480711627;trinque;there's all this theatrical "I rated X in public" and it's written with finger in sand
1576694;1480711629;phf;i think it's entirely petty and pointless to use wot as a weaponized shunning
1576695;1480711648;asciilifeform;weaponized shunning is the only effective weapon.
1576696;1480711665;asciilifeform;all of asciilifeform's tech, v, yet-unreleased items, resolve ultimately to it.
1576697;1480711692;asciilifeform;it is how we build a universe with semi-permeable walls, vermin on one side, people - on other.
1576698;1480711696;trinque;certainly uncovers a source of disagreement.
1576699;1480711703;*;trinque also in favor of cryptographic mark of cain
1576700;1480711739;asciilifeform;danielpbarron , i think, also believes in mechanized shunning, but takes it further yet, and would like to deny enemy access to ratings also
1576701;1480711767;asciilifeform;but it is not clear to me that this wins more than it costs.
1576702;1480711804;phf;a magic talisman against badmen
1576703;1480711810;asciilifeform;keep in mind, in a fully gossiptronic wot as pictured by danielpbarron , your knowledge of anything outside of your l1 is ~0.
1576704;1480711816;asciilifeform;100% apocrypha.
1576705;1480711860;asciilifeform;phf: talismans are problematic not only when they do not work, but especially when they ~do~. e.g., washing hands -- worx
1576706;1480711869;asciilifeform;and then there are the compulsives who wash 50x day, etc.
1576707;1480711892;asciilifeform;penicillin at one point was also 'talisman that worked'
1576708;1480711910;asciilifeform;not many more dangerous power tools than a... working talisman.
1576709;1480711956;trinque;this was the problem mod6 had with signing the dependency turds thrown into deedbot
1576710;1480711969;asciilifeform;folx will throw any thought of indirect costs out of their heads, when 'talisman worx!1111'
1576711;1480711974;trinque;ended up with disclaimer at top saying "I do not love these; I merely state that they exist"
1576712;1480711986;trinque;I see this as the meaning of a rating already. "This exists"
1576713;1480711992;asciilifeform;trinque: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 << oblig
1576714;1480712003;trinque;if I say "I love my wife" in it, then I do; signing "wife exists" doesn't mean I love her
1576715;1480712025;trinque;asciilifeform: aha, wherever this data exists it is not implied by a sig
1576716;1480712025;asciilifeform;(absolutely mandatory reading for this thread imho, and it is unfortunate that the piece was lost in the cacophony of the bbet disaster)
1576717;1480712032;trinque;*the mere presence of
1576718;1480712046;trinque;signing is the cryptographic act of observation
1576719;1480712055;asciilifeform;a sig is a tool of the dead as well as of the living.
1576720;1480712111;phf;well, what's the thinking here? that after your death all negrated entities are "possible suspects"?
1576721;1480712134;phf;traditionally this is solved with "obama dun did it, i hear him knocking on the door"
1576722;1480712226;trinque;if my dead grandfather hated someone, I would most certainly care about that given that he was a man I respected.
1576723;1480712236;trinque;that fact is useful after he is gone.
1576724;1480712267;phf;well, if that's a common understanding, then i don't understand mp's what is wot article
1576725;1480712268;asciilifeform;phf: the thinking is that nobody should be able to create an asciilifeform-signed vpatch after he is dead. omfg, this is hard concept?!
1576726;1480712282;phf;asciilifeform: when did vpatch come in? what the fuck
1576727;1480712290;asciilifeform;it is an instance of same material.
1576728;1480712293;asciilifeform;a rating.
1576729;1480712297;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/software-maintenance-costs-and-depreciation-schedules << CH - Software Maintenance Costs and Depreciation Schedules
1576730;1480712301;asciilifeform;just of a piece of text vs. another d00d's pubkey.
1576731;1480712306;trinque;before another bout of triggering happens, I think this well defines the debate
1576732;1480712314;phf;~ratings are meaningless outside of rater~ this is our fundamental disagreement
1576733;1480712332;trinque;are ratings ephemeral indications to consult the author or are they permanent marks
1576734;1480712343;phf;right
1576735;1480712349;asciilifeform;phf: i think we may have more fundamental disagreement:
1576736;1480712356;asciilifeform;what constitutes 'the rater'
1576737;1480712362;asciilifeform;is it necessarily a living, breathing man ?
1576738;1480712395;asciilifeform;we have already established that it is possible to live and to cease to live as rater ( a d00d in prison, or gabriel_laddel, or, or)
1576739;1480712415;asciilifeform;or the d00dz whose keys i phuctored
1576740;1480712418;trinque;it is also not necessary to say that because ratings exist in the past I must care about them as much as those more recent
1576741;1480712443;trinque;what was said being distinct from how I evaluate it
1576742;1480712449;asciilifeform;i, and this is i suppose no secret to anyone , am a 'past-oriented' fella.
1576743;1480712467;phf;asciilifeform: well, but what's the "more fundamental disagreement" stated?
1576744;1480712479;asciilifeform;phf: in my cosmography, a 'rater' is a pubkey
1576745;1480712480;asciilifeform;not a man.
1576746;1480712513;asciilifeform;it is, for instance, conceivable , from the pov of you folx, that asciilifeform is a bourbaki.
1576747;1480712516;asciilifeform;make 0 diff .
1576748;1480712522;asciilifeform;*makes
1576749;1480712593;phf;i don't know if we disagree there, but i don't see how that makes a difference
1576750;1480712629;phf;if i were to give a pubkey to a111 and it starts rating people based on how many btcbase references they make a day (there's a quota!)
1576751;1480712647;phf;i'm not going to go asking a111 what he meant by it, and i would laugh to anyone who'd try
1576752;1480712712;asciilifeform;this example is only an example in so far as it would be a pretty pointless mechanism
1576753;1480712729;asciilifeform;but picture , for instance, if phuctor bot rated keys that were phuctored, in the moment of.
1576754;1480712756;asciilifeform;(leaving aside that there is no effective means for securing a private key at a datacentre box )
1576755;1480712756;trinque;useful, and for all time
1576756;1480712804;phf;but what am i going to do with that knowledge? i'd still have to ask somebody (presumably you) to both proove overwnship of phuctor bot and to explain to me what those ratings mean. or else you have a document that you prepared that explains the logic, etc.
1576757;1480712814;asciilifeform;yes, it is ~impossible to make a robot-who-rates , with tech as i currently understand it. does not change the fact that perma-ratings are a fundamentally stronger building material than 'go and ask him and see if he feels like telling you the truth'
1576758;1480712831;trinque;asciilifeform: release gossipd already so I can write a DHT for it !1!!1 solves WoT, solves "DNS", solves ...
1576759;1480712833;trinque;:D
1576760;1480712836;asciilifeform;phf: you would simply need to HAVE ASKED me 20 years ago for pubkey.
1576761;1480712859;asciilifeform;or maybe i graffiti'd it on the moon. or in corpses in group photo in afghan. wherever.
1576762;1480712867;asciilifeform;it is not so hard to preserve a few kBit permanently.
1576763;1480712871;phf;asciilifeform: ok, my point was that i don't see how that's a more fundamental than "no rating outside of rater"
1576764;1480712901;asciilifeform;the way i read danielpbarron's thought, was that he sees 'rater' as necessarily a living entity ready to carry on conversation.
1576765;1480712906;asciilifeform;whereas i - as simply a pubkey.
1576766;1480712912;asciilifeform;that might belong to a long-dead great grandfather.
1576767;1480713098;phf;oh so you were saying fundamental disagreement between you and danielpbarron rather than me
1576768;1480713225;phf;well, dpb dropped out of this conversation, and i apparently have isolated understanding of wot.
1576769;1480713506;trinque;at least now we're in a position to discuss the cost/benefit of a forgetful WoT.
1576770;1480713635;trinque;if it is better to forget, lets make that explicit. when/why, and not just as an artifact of being built on shoddy computing infrastructure.
1576771;1480713636;phf;for me wot is a partial externalization of a hawala network and as far as -1,0,1 is concerned ~perhaps~ indicates prevalent opinions among the people whose opinion i value, but by convention only. in this sense the wot follows the lords and not the other way around. it has some practical use like serving as a door bouncer and ostensibly letting newbs know who to talk to.
1576772;1480713770;trinque;it becomes hard to distinguish from the gossipd-graph, eh?
1576773;1480713809;trinque;I could see an argument that the WoT evolves into the gossipd graph.
1576774;1480713823;trinque;and then yes, can't talk to a deadman in either case.
1576775;1480713901;trinque;whereas I see them as distinct; wot is the history of my past and present gossipd connections, and indications of what I thought of them
1576776;1480714180;phf;neither current wot nor gossipd spec wot have the history component, because if you go by "there's no rating outside of rater" past ratings make absolutely no difference.
1576777;1480714203;trinque;I meant "I used to be peered with / do business with / talk to X, but may no longer"
1576778;1480714239;trinque;it is my history with the person eval'd to what I deem the present state
1576779;1480714269;phf;well, speaking of history audit trail does introduce explicit history where there wasn't any
1576780;1480714281;trinque;it does.
1576781;1480714313;trinque;something else comes to mind; there exists in our logs a person named trinque who is not the present trinque
1576782;1480714320;trinque;we keep the logs, presumably forever
1576783;1480714322;trinque;why?
1576784;1480714356;trinque;if ratings are ephemeral, seems logs must also be. relevant here that we tend to rate in the logs.
1576785;1480714373;*;mircea_popescu waves. i shall write this short i woke up with and read all this!
1576786;1480714429;*;trinque enjoyed
1576787;1480714433;trinque;back in a bit
1576788;1480714583;mircea_popescu;aaand we find teh english has no equivalent of ojina/užina wtf is this bs.
1576789;1480714600;mircea_popescu;how is a squire supposed to fatten into a sphere properly if there's no meal between lunch and dinner ?
1576790;1480715227;diana_coman;isn't that tea?
1576791;1480715271;diana_coman;scones and butter and what-not
1576792;1480715320;mircea_popescu;aha.
1576793;1480715323;mircea_popescu;must be
1576794;1480715446;danielpbarron;re preserving log: we don't sign each line we send. but feel free to sign the whole thing
1576795;1480716264;danielpbarron;!~bible matthew 8:22
1576796;1480716265;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 8:22 :: But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
1576797;1480716302;asciilifeform;http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2016/11/trump-supporter-15-beaten-during-rockville-protest/slide/1/ << in other lelz
1576798;1480716329;*;asciilifeform actually went to this school. or rather, diff one by same name that used to stand in the empty lot next to that one.
1576799;1480716366;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576455 << running the "oh, that wasn't a wedding, who goes out in the desert to have weddings (outside of weirdo californians) and there was no leftover food or musical instruments or anything)" side by side with the AP footage showing all the lively colored bedding and pots and pans and various bits of goatfucker musical instruments is quite the COIN exercise.
1576800;1480716366;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 18:39 mats: at least half a dozen by my count
1576801;1480716449;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576789 << holy fuck your ужин is b/w lunch & dinner ?! like english tea??
1576802;1480716449;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 21:36 mircea_popescu: how is a squire supposed to fatten into a sphere properly if there's no meal between lunch and dinner ?
1576803;1480716455;asciilifeform;ours is before bed !
1576804;1480716466;mircea_popescu;you go to bed with the chickens ?
1576805;1480716481;mircea_popescu;civilised people have artificial light, stay up longer.
1576806;1480716483;asciilifeform;i have nfi when chicken goes to bed
1576807;1480716495;asciilifeform;i think american chickens get lamps
1576808;1480716508;mircea_popescu;with the light. you can put a chick to sleep right now by covering its head. the brain is eye-powered like in frogs.
1576809;1480716520;asciilifeform;anyway no, you don't go straight to bed after it, but it happens 1-3h prior
1576810;1480716537;mircea_popescu;so what's between lunch and dinner ?
1576811;1480716634;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576459 << i certainly did as a kid.
1576812;1480716634;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 18:48 asciilifeform: i thought that all children played like this...
1576813;1480717218;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/esteemed-james-l-caldwell/ << Trilema - Esteemed James L. Caldwell...
1576814;1480717330;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576465 << i dunno what prisons you've been in, but nobody can be arsed to do the whole bickering bs as far as i saw.
1576815;1480717330;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 18:50 asciilifeform: aha, in the 'black schools' there is neverending fight, like in a prison, and even bouncers to pry apart especially eager folk. and everyone with 'room temperature iq' however you measure it, also
1576816;1480717368;mircea_popescu;not that it's bad for kids, though it does promote some tilt towards the tomboyish look in girls that i don't find welcome.
1576817;1480717438;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576477 << if only. gorby has smarter people.
1576818;1480717438;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:03 asciilifeform: they are in the gorbachev 'kooperativ' phase
1576819;1480717497;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576483 << i dun think it's particularly naive.
1576820;1480717497;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:13 mats: this will sound naive, but humans in outer space represents an ideal of social cooperation and unity of purpose - against the environment trying to kill us - that i feel we've long since lost
1576821;1480717563;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576486 << this is ~rank nonsense. the closest approximation is the west, where women were traded for tobacco, or every other colonisation event. where, each and every time, women started as merchandise.
1576822;1480717563;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:16 phf: according neil stephenson in such a situation only womens will survive
1576823;1480717631;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576491 << it is very much precedented, by the age of sail. EXACTLY the same "men, on a boat, cooperating, not taking the ale and ribracks for granted" etc.
1576824;1480717631;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:21 ben_vulpes: mats: also entirely unprecedented
1576825;1480717851;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576496 << this is a bad idea, for multiple reasons. one of them being that it requires to give sign capacity to the clients, which is deeply undesirable ; another being that it encourages a retarded notion/expectation of repudiability.
1576826;1480717851;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:24 trinque: I lean towards flipping the model to "decrypt and sign this command + OTP" vs "decrypt and send in the clear this OTP"
1576827;1480717982;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576504 << to add... flavour to this, /me will on occasion go to pee, find girl taking bath, pee on girl rather than in the usual place. not only is it ecological and great for the hair, but it's a lot easier to aim.
1576828;1480717982;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:30 mats: in vaccuum - every grain is consumed, every ml of urine recovered
1576829;1480718049;ben_vulpes;boats, huh. /me smacks self
1576830;1480718078;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576511 << yes but it would require client to know all sorts of things client doesn't want to know about.
1576831;1480718078;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:39 trinque: if ratings were this kind of material I could chatter them to anyone interested as they are received, and conceivably "only chatter me things about the L2 of <key>"
1576832;1480718118;mircea_popescu;why so violent ben_vulpes !
1576833;1480718172;ben_vulpes;a lifetime of communist-repressed masculinity leaking out i suppose
1576834;1480718184;mircea_popescu;lol.
1576835;1480718222;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576517 << they're not equivalent but imo his is the better solution. though i'm not even sure what the problem is.
1576836;1480718222;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:44 trinque: that is in no way equivalent
1576837;1480718225;ben_vulpes;("fewer than eight cylinders? communist. more than eight cylinders? communist." tm r those car guys)
1576838;1480718227;*;mircea_popescu awaits teh man to return.
1576839;1480718393;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576521 << they are ?! why ? i have no intention for my rating of X to be opposable to me. it is information i provide free of charge and on an as-is basis, literally saying "if you're trying to eval X i may be able to help". it would be the height of impudence for y to demand something on the basis of "i have this here signed thing".
1576840;1480718393;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:49 asciilifeform: ratings are the one clearest case for 'must stand alone'
1576841;1480718420;asciilifeform;what can i say, whoever wants to turn his ratings into promisetronium -- can.
1576842;1480718422;mircea_popescu;this theoretical problem is evinced in practice by the expiration problem - what do you do about all the ratings i may have signed ? so you have rating for x at time t, what's this say ? is it correct or isn't it correct ?
1576843;1480718439;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nothing prevents me from putting in ratings as deeds ; nor anyone else. yet few do.
1576844;1480718451;asciilifeform;because gymnastics.
1576845;1480718458;mircea_popescu;the old distinction between fact and fiction prevails. ratings are not facts.
1576846;1480718465;ben_vulpes;oh come now you had the keys out when decrypting deedbot's pad
1576847;1480718479;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes but the item does not sign anything.
1576848;1480718509;ben_vulpes;the keys are out already, spend five seconds to write a thing if it matters to you.
1576849;1480718519;mircea_popescu;yes i had the keys out. but to pee not to make johnny little brothers.
1576850;1480718520;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: for all you know, i can decrypt by sending via diode into the nuke vault, but to SIGN i gotta take the rocket out to access the modulus.
1576851;1480718523;ben_vulpes;if 'gymnastics', then does it really matter?
1576852;1480718538;ben_vulpes;a right.
1576853;1480718633;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576515 << it is not a good thing in any sense. think for a moment : if the ratings are live, which is to say, they actually do stand up to their purpose of "if you try to eval x ask these people", then those people will re-advertise. if they do not, then they should have been deleted in the first place.
1576854;1480718633;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:42 trinque: but at any rate, making the WoT something that can be rebuilt from public information when I am dead is a good thing
1576855;1480718681;mircea_popescu;there's absolutely no valuable information that would be lost if you fucked up the db today and we had to re-do it. just inconvenience to a lot of live people, but it's of the nature of "tee hee i garbled everyone's shopping lists as found on the fridge" not of the "tee hee i burned all extant aramaic manuscripts".
1576856;1480718883;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576522 << aha, very much this. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576523 << no, really, it's actually design so you verify it by asking the rater. if anyone ever goes "wtf" we know we have a problem.
1576857;1480718883;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:49 danielpbarron: there is no "verifying a rating" beyond asking the rater yourself
1576858;1480718883;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:49 asciilifeform: as in, you should be able to verify it solely by possessing the rating + the pubkey of the rater.
1576859;1480718910;trinque;I address my counterposition to this in thread.
1576860;1480718917;trinque;the hardware is all shit, and lies
1576861;1480718925;trinque;so then it tends towards why warehouse this at all
1576862;1480718934;trinque;if we are not warehousing cryptographic facts
1576863;1480718976;trinque;I am for example not willing to do the wallet if fucking up the db is possible.
1576864;1480718979;mircea_popescu;because we've decided to live in the world as it is rather than wait for someone else (who ?) to make a better one
1576865;1480719015;mircea_popescu;trinque what do you mean by fucking up the db in that context as something else was being contemplated when i said it ?
1576866;1480719062;trinque;in the case of both WoT and wallet, from an engineers perspective I have a database which changes state when outside parties tell it.
1576867;1480719063;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576524 << you sign facts ; opinions are not facts ; what is a "cryptographic fact" in your usage above ?
1576868;1480719063;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:49 trinque: danielpbarron: how do you justify signing anything by this logic ?
1576869;1480719069;mircea_popescu;aha.
1576870;1480719077;trinque;it is a fact that I have spoken this opinion at this time
1576871;1480719111;mircea_popescu;a rating you mean ? but a rating isn't an opinion, it's an advertisement. much like an offer in a magazine is a tender not a deal.
1576872;1480719122;trinque;the bare state of the data is the fact meant
1576873;1480719126;trinque;not the encoded meaning
1576874;1480719131;mircea_popescu;but the bare state of data isn't a fact ;/
1576875;1480719233;trinque;please explain?
1576876;1480719270;trinque;I have here a machine with levers on it which can be pulled via proven control of a given key
1576877;1480719295;trinque;except that it has also secret levers which can be pulled over the network card with a magic packet and all other sorts of nonsense
1576878;1480719309;trinque;only defense against this I can see is warehousing what was said and being able to verify that it was said out of band
1576879;1480719369;asciilifeform;i'm with trinque re 'a signed opinion is a fact.' if i take 1TB from my rng and sign it, that is a perma-fossilized piece of my volition.
1576880;1480719379;asciilifeform;even if no one knows wtf i thought i was doing .
1576881;1480719423;trinque;i.e. I immediately spray all signed material to a box whose only function is to back up the pile of signed incoming statements, and over a serial diode.
1576882;1480719463;trinque;in the case of the wallet, I have something I can verify before and every time I move coin
1576883;1480719639;trinque;this model is also applicable using OTP, I'm aware, but while it proves something to *me*, it doesn't prove it to anyone else.
1576884;1480719682;trinque;hm. you know what. if I stockpile encrypted OTP material which is also encrypted to my own key, I suppose it does the same.
1576885;1480719712;trinque;provided other people see me send this encrypted OTP to another
1576886;1480719785;*;trinque takes it back. seems to require access to my private key for anyone else to believe it.
1576887;1480719953;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a pile of rng bits IS a fact.
1576888;1480719970;asciilifeform;and so is a rategram.
1576889;1480720000;mircea_popescu;trinque so basically, to understand this, the problem you are working against is this situation where you are tricked into making false payments by a secret owner of your hardware ?
1576890;1480720012;trinque;exactly.
1576891;1480720023;trinque;narrowing the hole for that.
1576892;1480720035;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no. and this confusion between fact and fiction driven by the engineering perspective that "oh it is a fact TO ME" eventually ends up with usg and the "fact" of "fake media"
1576893;1480720064;mircea_popescu;trinque is this different from "you were tricked into making false payments by secret owner of all rsa keys" ?
1576894;1480720068;asciilifeform;sooo pray tell why the transformator that can turn rng bits into fact, breaks its teeth against a rategram.
1576895;1480720092;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nothing transforms the rng bits into fact. they were fact, from the beginning, owing to the absence of meaning.
1576896;1480720104;mircea_popescu;but the rategram is not a fact, it's just meaning.
1576897;1480720106;trinque;mircea_popescu: there are many enemies with many means of attack
1576898;1480720136;mircea_popescu;trinque i believe the correct pill to this would be to keep the moving sums small, rather than fucking the mechanism.
1576899;1480720149;trinque;is not the binary number which represents a rating a fact, which encodes a meaning?
1576900;1480720164;mircea_popescu;ie, when dealing with unquantifiable unknown risks, methodological approaches are costs with no benefit./
1576901;1480720191;mircea_popescu;trinque facts don't encode anything. that's what it's like to be a fact - you may only be interpreted, but exist outside and above any meaning.
1576902;1480720195;asciilifeform;and my rating ' mircea_popescu : +9999: best buddy, died in vietnam but not forgotten , my only trustworthy supplier of mersenne primes, there shall be no more but those he signed for me ' is equally 'fact' and certifiable as any rng bit
1576903;1480720201;mats;http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-to-forgive-at-least-108-billion-in-student-debt-in-coming-years-1480501802 << holy shit, where is usg going to find 100bn
1576904;1480720234;asciilifeform;mats: from the nonexistent 'retirements' the owed money was to supposedly pay for.
1576905;1480720237;mircea_popescu;mats bannon got 1trn, they'll manage.
1576906;1480720254;asciilifeform;mats: and every other obligation usg will gleefully default on, like fdr on his gold bonds
1576907;1480720278;mats;mircea_popescu: talking about killing medicare?
1576908;1480720306;mircea_popescu;no whatever infrastructure development fund, i have nfi, the whole thing's vague as fake hair.
1576909;1480720306;mats;well, cutting off its legs
1576910;1480720346;mats;asciilifeform: i wonder how many people actually thought entitlements like SS, Medicare, would live forever...
1576911;1480720370;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576528 << they have to. there is no "one" answer. suppose the case where i rate someone X as a 3 because i dunno, we go fishing. suppose A asks me about X because he's contemplating going hunting, and B asks me about X because he's contemplating playing chess.
1576912;1480720370;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:50 asciilifeform: i dun see the 'win' from encouraging people to byzantiate and twofaced lie and give different answer to X and to Y regarding how they rate Z.
1576913;1480720383;asciilifeform;mats: i dunno that many folx walk around with notions of 'thousand year reich' directly present in their heads. but 'will last long enough for ME' is probably common delusion.
1576914;1480720384;mircea_popescu;to A i shall say "and he doesn't snore" and to B i shall say "he's a patient sort"
1576915;1480720419;mircea_popescu;this notion that ratings encode some sort of single unified pointed scalar truth has got to die already. it's not only very stupid, it's actually in the way.
1576916;1480720430;asciilifeform;i am beginning to suspect that different folx want different and possibly incompatible things from the concept of wot.
1576917;1480720432;*;trinque thought no such thing
1576918;1480720440;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform illustrate ?
1576919;1480720477;mircea_popescu;trinque i don't think you did, but we ended up with a whole front here and since we're discussing it let's discuss altogether.
1576920;1480720482;trinque;certainly
1576921;1480720517;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and note that the only fact in your list of facts is my dying. which imparts some fact-flavour to the rest of the string.
1576922;1480720518;trinque;but asciilifeform yes, along the ephemeral/gossip vs mark-of-cain fault line?
1576923;1480720539;asciilifeform;i'ma let trinque illustrate, since my current understanding is that he sees the pov, and it is easier to have socratic thread with 2 rather than 3
1576924;1480720553;mircea_popescu;hmmkay.
1576925;1480720583;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576531 << this is a major problem, folks can then create alt-chans in which alt-wots live AND YOU CAN VERIFY - ITS SIGNED!
1576926;1480720583;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:52 danielpbarron: i thought this was already done in the log : suppose i give +5 one day and -10 the next? without the latter it would appear i trust the guy -- WITH SIGNATURE!!!
1576927;1480720605;trinque;signed does not mean true in my view.
1576928;1480720611;mircea_popescu;i'm not about to give the wolf a falx on top of everything.
1576929;1480720619;mircea_popescu;trinque what does it mean then ?
1576930;1480720620;trinque;it only means "this statement was made"
1576931;1480720633;trinque;by the holder of the pen^H^H^Hkey
1576932;1480720669;trinque;maybe you signed contract A at one point, then signed B which brought about termination of A, and I don't have B
1576933;1480720674;mircea_popescu;there have to be layers. my hitting return is "this statement was made" ; my signing should be "this statement was made with a view of it being opposable to the maker".
1576934;1480720675;asciilifeform;my basic problem with unsigned-ratings is that enemy can fabricate a fictional me from WHOLE CLOTH rather than being stuck with selected pieces of what i actually did.
1576935;1480720675;trinque;doesn't mean A is still in effect
1576936;1480720695;asciilifeform;(as in the 'old ratings shown to man trapped in cave' scene.)
1576937;1480720696;trinque;that I hold signed material does not say something about the state of the world
1576938;1480720703;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform enemy already does this ; so does your gf. everyone you come into contact with is fabricating a fictional you from the whole cloth of their head.
1576939;1480720712;trinque;only about the existence of that material in the eyes of the signer
1576940;1480720722;mircea_popescu;which is how there exist these washpo that is a reputable source, qntra that is a spamsite etc.
1576941;1480720758;asciilifeform;with pubkey crypto it is possible to make a rigorous reality with tall buildings in it, with steel frames, instead of this ubiquitous liquishit.
1576942;1480720773;mircea_popescu;trinque the problem here is like so : if you don't sign the stuff, you have a river, which will have to be forded. people wanting to get across know what they're doing - fording a river.
1576943;1480720793;mircea_popescu;if you construct the signing infrastructure, there's a river with a railway bridge. however, segments may be missing ; and this can't be known.
1576944;1480720800;mircea_popescu;people approaching this other river will drown.
1576945;1480720992;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576548 << you don't ; nor is it your business to. this is simply not a service you offer.
1576946;1480720992;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 19:56 trinque: how do I currently know by looking at my database that no item in it was altered by somebody spraying bits into my server via network card -> dma
1576947;1480721012;mircea_popescu;all i want to know from you if such a situation is discovered is if you did it or not.
1576948;1480721076;mircea_popescu;and there's a damned good reason you don't, nor is it a service you offer : the difficulty of "looking at the data, establish its validity" exceeds building the ai.
1576949;1480721159;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what means 'with a view of it being opposable to the maker' ?
1576950;1480721228;mircea_popescu;well see part of the problem is merchant law. so : there's two kinds of writs, one of which can be opposed to the author, which is to say if he later makes a claim, anyone with standing (like the guy he's making the claim against) can oppose the writ.
1576951;1480721265;mats;asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/4mzjk/?raw=true
1576952;1480721271;mircea_popescu;"you owe me 5 guilders" "this writ says i don't". "i never meant for my daughter to be chained to the post naked for all comers" "then why does this offer her ?" etc.
1576953;1480721274;trinque;I can see that I'm opposing massive precedent behind what signing means.
1576954;1480721276;trinque;it's a fair point
1576955;1480721305;mircea_popescu;it's not just precedent, either. it has its own sort of contorted but domain-appropriate logic.
1576956;1480721315;asciilifeform;oh ty mats
1576957;1480721322;asciilifeform;mats: where'dya get thhis
1576958;1480721329;asciilifeform;oh nm, found, in the end.
1576959;1480721371;mircea_popescu;anyway. merchant law, which incidentally i advise all curious minds to review, not only long predates civil law or the british mandaciousa attempts to enact a systematized "common law" as older than it was - but actually informed all legal work of the states. they basically stole the merchant's code much like the french stole the templar's wealth.
1576960;1480721397;mircea_popescu;not that there's anything wrong with stealing from the wise.
1576961;1480721446;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what'd be a use case for 'non-opposable writ' ?
1576962;1480721452;mircea_popescu;this line.
1576963;1480721452;asciilifeform;other than napkin drawing in restaurant.
1576964;1480721492;asciilifeform;or that time when ben_vulpes explained to mats how trinque killed and shinohai ate kennedy.
1576965;1480721500;mircea_popescu;and herein included - all my ratings. you can not at some point come and say "X scammed me of a btc and you had him rated +1 therefore you owe me some cents"
1576966;1480721526;trinque;this I can see, much better than earlier protests that "it's not necessary", meaning no ill towards danielpbarron
1576967;1480721527;asciilifeform;but how would that even make sense
1576968;1480721530;mircea_popescu;in fact, you can not at any point raise any objection to any of my ratings. they're whatever they are and you're more than welcome to go hang, there's no "detrimental reliance" on them for you.
1576969;1480721553;trinque;it would be flooding the world with things you have to one by one argue against in court, more or less
1576970;1480721567;mircea_popescu;and in the process making a serious court impossible.
1576971;1480721578;*;trinque sees entirely
1576972;1480721609;mircea_popescu;there's two reasons one does not wish to be cavallier with signed matter. one is purely technological, as discussed briefly above, but the more important one is ecology of the republic of the mind. you wish to make THE STRICT MINIMUM of signed statements you can get by with AND NOT A SINGLE MORE.
1576973;1480721705;mircea_popescu;and re the facts/fiction discussion : a very good rule of thumb to distinguish fact from fiction is right here - can it be opposed to anyone ? for instance, trump's election is a fact, and here it is a fact because i have opposed it to alf to force him to reconsider his political evaluator.
1576974;1480721738;mircea_popescu;whether he did or didn't or did a bum job of it or anything isn't even at issue - the oppositive quality of facts distingushes them from mere meaning just like the thumb stands out on the hand.
1576975;1480721790;mircea_popescu;and for this reason ratings can't have to be signed - they can never be opposed to the maker.
1576976;1480721809;mircea_popescu;so that settles that. nevertheless, orders to pay CAN have to be signed, because obviously they will be opposed to the maker during settling of accounts.
1576977;1480721822;mircea_popescu;whether they also should is i suppose in discussion here ?
1576978;1480721831;trinque;right, so then I've cleaved the nature of the two systems in my own mind.
1576979;1480721943;*;shinohai munches on Kennedy's forearm in lieu of popcorn
1576980;1480721944;trinque;I certainly would want to be able to show that I moved even latte money in accordance with someone's agreement.
1576981;1480721955;asciilifeform;there are several quite obvious scenarios where 1) i would like a reliable picture of what someone else rated 2) it is impractical to converse.  one, discussed earlier, is death. another -- long voyages, at sea, on the run from nazis, with partizans in the forest, etc.
1576982;1480721969;mircea_popescu;i don't have a very strong opinion on the signing of payment orders. i suppose it's a tradeoff of convenience vs corectness.
1576983;1480721996;trinque;or "every user of this system accepts my judgement on the movement of coin wholly, or uses something else"
1576984;1480721998;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the ratings of dead people are meaningless in the marketplace ; and only interesting to the inept historian.
1576985;1480722000;trinque;I suppose that's fine too
1576986;1480722033;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: here is i think where we disagree irreconcilably, 99% of everything i learned that i see as worth knowing came from dead folx.
1576987;1480722040;asciilifeform;and in particular from dead wots.
1576988;1480722056;mircea_popescu;trinque that's the consideration here. if you have the signatures, evidently people can trust you with larger sums, but how much larger i can not say ; but evidently you will need the management in place to be able to produce the materials on challenge.
1576989;1480722058;trinque;perhaps a man can sign his own wot time to time
1576990;1480722069;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but they were not ratings.
1576991;1480722130;mircea_popescu;trinque you can even have a system of "orders over X value or nth in a day have to be clearsigned" and have the user set X and n ?
1576992;1480722142;trinque;I like that.
1576993;1480722161;mircea_popescu;can't possibly be any complaints, with such a scheme.
1576994;1480722224;mircea_popescu;"this account is authorised to draft up to 3 times sums up to 1 btc through direct command" and have people send you a signed thing to bump it.
1576995;1480722477;trinque;asciilifeform: if one wanted to make a statement for all time about a key, there's always a deed.
1576996;1480722495;asciilifeform;trinque: this doesn't solve the ~expectation~ problem
1576997;1480722665;trinque;which?
1576998;1480722885;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576558 << well as it turns out, ratings are a lot closer to sexual intercourse than previously realised ; but in any sense what i meant was the point of reference (ie, i will fuck this curvaceous lady as the body presents itself and do business with fa9fblabla, which are the two presentations of the supposed same but otherwise uncapturable spirit). i didn't mean business BY the keys when i s
1576999;1480722885;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:01 asciilifeform: when mircea_popescu wrote the piece where 'sex -- with people, business -- with keys' - what does danielpbarron suppose he meant ?
1577000;1480722885;mircea_popescu;aid business WITH the keys. the manner of conducting business is left to the faculty of the merchant ; at issue is the reference point of said business.
1577001;1480723163;hanbot;<mircea_popescu> asciilifeform the ratings of dead people are meaningless in the marketplace ; and only interesting to the inept historian. << i have a hard time agreeing with this; even should death prevent a rating reflective of the current state of things, a past rating from a ghost could still be "meaningful" in its distance from w/e the current status -is-, no?
1577002;1480723165;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576821 << we had an early thread where asciilifeform and i commiserated over how much "seveneves" sucked (seven eves, get it!1)
1577003;1480723165;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 22:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576486 << this is ~rank nonsense. the closest approximation is the west, where women were traded for tobacco, or every other colonisation event. where, each and every time, women started as merchandise.
1577004;1480723182;mircea_popescu;hanbot can you read dead languages ? if not, why not ?
1577005;1480723186;hanbot;"this guy sucks" vs "this guy was demonstrably awesome and got hit by the suckray"
1577006;1480723193;asciilifeform;hanbot: i was defending this pov for past 2hrs, apparently to quite deaf ears.
1577007;1480723246;asciilifeform;phf: the b00k sucked in ways that are difficult to even put into words.
1577008;1480723251;hanbot;mircea_popescu depends on what exactly you mean by "read". it's not the case that i can't extract any value from them. it's certainly the case i wouldn't wager i wholly comprehend. and whatever's in between i'm not sure i'd call "meaningless"
1577009;1480723253;trinque;but, the value of his past statements does not mean they are necessarily part of "the wot"
1577010;1480723268;asciilifeform;somehow stephenson absorbed every possible poison from reddit etc. in past few years.
1577011;1480723272;mircea_popescu;so were bellbottoms the suck, or demonstrably awesome but hit by suck ray ?
1577012;1480723300;hanbot;lol. depends what fashion mavens, if any, one listens to.
1577013;1480723343;mircea_popescu;the problem of interpreting structures of meaning without survivors is not trivial. which is why i said inept historian - the monumental tasks more often attract the idiots who don't comprehend scale than actually talented people who can take bites of reality the size of the moon.
1577014;1480723393;asciilifeform;can't speak for others, generally i like to be in the business of supplying moon biters, but also would not mind giving idiots gigantic guns with which to shoot themselves.
1577015;1480723396;mircea_popescu;in any case - merchants, always of the strict practical persuasion, have no use for them ; and most of the "history" ie, retellings they produce is speculative.
1577016;1480723420;asciilifeform;merchants - for good or ill - live in the 'now'.
1577017;1480723435;asciilifeform;which is how they end up behaving like plankton, and living and dying with the tide.
1577018;1480723442;mircea_popescu;something like that. it's a little complicated, because there is some transcendence even in trade.
1577019;1480723480;mircea_popescu;ie, it's fully a liberal profession. (in some readings, a liberal profession is one where the sufficiently skilled practitioner eventually meets god.)
1577020;1480723527;mircea_popescu;o look phf, i can't link to the story of turbulent flow BECAUSE ITS NOT IN YOUR LOGS!11
1577021;1480723543;asciilifeform;the one with von karman ??
1577022;1480723547;mircea_popescu;the one.
1577023;1480723576;asciilifeform;it isn't, fwiw, in kako's either.
1577024;1480723588;mircea_popescu;darn. did we hallucinate this then ?
1577025;1480723601;asciilifeform;it may have been in a mircea_popescu-asciilifeform pmfest
1577026;1480723602;phf;(it's a comment about lack of pre-kako logs in btcbase perhaps)
1577027;1480723617;mircea_popescu;im damned sure it was in the chan.
1577028;1480723649;asciilifeform;iirc the retelling i am familiar with is due to uncle al.
1577029;1480723686;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-19#567906
1577030;1480723686;a111;Logged on 2014-03-19 19:04 asciilifeform: and, finally, his moment arrived! von Kármán surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von Kármán spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'
1577031;1480723692;asciilifeform;^
1577032;1480723698;mircea_popescu;aha! ahahaha!
1577033;1480723702;mircea_popescu;sorry phf false alarm :)
1577034;1480723704;asciilifeform;not found on account of orcacola!
1577035;1480723718;mircea_popescu;no, i actually searched for "turbulent flow" as opposed to "turbulence"
1577036;1480723719;asciilifeform;бнопня вхрюк!
1577037;1480723863;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576571 << "with keys, not necessarily by keys" ehehe. sometimes i'm rather grateful i'm right here to know wtf i meant by stuff i said. ye know, hanbot ? :D
1577038;1480723863;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:05 trinque: I am still waiting to hear why I shouldn't just rely on freenode's auth system to process ratings
1577039;1480724028;hanbot;>D
1577040;1480724388;asciilifeform;meanwhile, so i get a crate with the infamous 'lattice ice' fpga. and go and set up the OPEN SORES!!!11111!!!! toolchain. and lo and behold, it not only bristles with CODE OF CUNTDOCT!!111 etc., but... won't even build
1577041;1480724388;mircea_popescu;lol at beating danielpbarron gets in logs. dat trinque dude packs some punch does he.
1577042;1480724390;asciilifeform;because wants 'clang'
1577043;1480724394;asciilifeform;and llvm
1577044;1480724410;mircea_popescu;mind pasting the code ?
1577045;1480724415;asciilifeform;http://www.clifford.at/icestorm << subj
1577046;1480724416;mircea_popescu;of conduct i mean.
1577047;1480724421;asciilifeform;aite,1s
1577048;1480724444;asciilifeform;https://github.com/cliffordwolf/icestorm/blob/master/CodeOfConduct
1577049;1480724514;mircea_popescu;oh it's for them. i thought they had one for the luser lol. aaanyway, "The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances" << epic shit; i hope this spreads.
1577050;1480724521;*;mircea_popescu chuckles at his own pun.
1577051;1480724630;asciilifeform;thing is a MASSIVE megaturd also.
1577052;1480724650;asciilifeform;~100M of src.
1577053;1480724656;asciilifeform;when all added up.
1577054;1480724657;mircea_popescu;that fits in a fpga ?!
1577055;1480724664;asciilifeform;no!
1577056;1480724666;BingoBoingo;From the local police blotter: "Five juveniles, a 9-year-old boy, a 10-year-old boy, two 11-year-old boys, and a 10-year-old girl, all of Highland, were charged with destroying property for allegedly breaking light bulbs on Christmas displays belonging to the city"
1577057;1480724675;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's the verilog compiler.
1577058;1480724680;mircea_popescu;ah the toolchain
1577059;1480724764;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576609 << well, logs are one thing, not quite same as ratings.
1577060;1480724764;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:17 trinque: the fact is preserved that he who had this key said X
1577061;1480724876;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576829 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_oEmG7DzU
1577062;1480724876;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 22:34 ben_vulpes: boats, huh. /me smacks self
1577063;1480724889;asciilifeform;and holy shit it is annoying, i will have to make entirely new box to run that thing on.
1577064;1480725029;asciilifeform;literally not a single one of my active gentoo boxes will 'emerge' clang...
1577065;1480725035;asciilifeform;they all get mired in circular dependency hell.
1577066;1480725077;asciilifeform;i will point out that, for all of the horror of the 100% closed and ~15 GB (yes) mass of the xilinx dev chain, it runs on ANY LINUX BOX
1577067;1480725142;asciilifeform;nor does it ask to become root, nor does it ask you to fuck with your global compiler set
1577068;1480725296;asciilifeform;oh and as if this were not enough, 'icestorm' wants also:
1577069;1480725298;asciilifeform;python3
1577070;1480725360;shinohai;ewww
1577071;1480728372;shinohai;Life imitates art: http://archive.is/pg5B6
1577072;1480728939;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-28#1549612 << so normal action is ^AACTION ... ^A, turns that when the line is too long it gets cut off (which is normal behavior) but in case of action none of client seem to do the regular split, meanwhile the irc server cutsoff terminating ^A, which breaks most parsers (including mine)
1577073;1480728939;a111;Logged on 2016-09-28 08:17 Framedragger: aha, i wonder if the sending irc client encoded msg in some strange charset, and ACTION was *not* technically the first set of characters in that message, from point of view of znc.
1577074;1480728963;phf;in case of znc you get the wonky ^ACTION ... lines
1577075;1480729461;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/935C281E93290085CEF5E89EA683BF22ADF83017C0C76A563E494485929B1BFB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2169...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.225.241.126 (ssh-rsa key from 195.225.241.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1577076;1480729461;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/678090924806DAD56D7DC5111D33E4B7E22C62E7D43813D17ED89BB06ECD4CDE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2515...0321 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '198.102.73.67 (ssh-rsa key from 198.102.73.67 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blacklist.day.org. US)
1577077;1480729563;ben_vulpes;deploying major rewrite of mimisbrunnr.
1577078;1480729686;ben_vulpes;and back
1577079;1480729871;ben_vulpes;rewriting things is my fave. giant pile of ones own poop to shovel, and at the end of the day nothing should have changed as far as non codemonkeys can tell.
1577080;1480730090;*;phf 0 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 1 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 2 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 3 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 4 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 5 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 6 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 7 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 8 a b c d e f g h i j k l
1577081;1480730191;asciilifeform;phf: test pattern?
1577082;1480730223;phf;yeah, but it's not giving me expected result :/
1577083;1480730408;phf;asciilifeform: actually is the last letter in that pattern l or m?
1577084;1480730430;ben_vulpes;i see an l
1577085;1480730432;asciilifeform;l
1577086;1480730434;phf;kk
1577087;1480730564;phf;ah no there yo go http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161203/#74
1577088;1480730565;scriba;Logged on 2016-12-03: [01:54:50] <phf> 
ACTION 0 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 1 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 2 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 3 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 4 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 5 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 6 a b c d e f g h i j k l m
1577089;1480730566;scriba;n o p q r s t u v w x y z 7 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 8 a b c d e f g h i j k l
1577090;1480732317;ben_vulpes;http://cascadianhacker.com/ad-hoc-routing-another-benefit-to-life-in-the-republic?preview=true&preview_id=235&preview_nonce=46dc0db338#comment-56 << /me waves at nubbins`
1577091;1480732426;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: prolly ol' kako
1577092;1480732490;asciilifeform;( d00d lives in a parallel world where , e.g., mpex is dead, and ready to tell any old-timer randomly reappearing in his chan - as they sometimes do - that it vanished long ago, etc )
1577093;1480732565;shinohai;!~btc.blocks 400000
1577094;1480732565;jhvh1;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/400000
1577095;1480732574;shinohai;fixed ben_vulpes
1577096;1480732581;ben_vulpes;neato shinohai
1577097;1480732601;ben_vulpes;consider plugging mimisbrunnr into tslb?
1577098;1480732604;*;ben_vulpes off, ride is here
1577099;1480732895;phf;asciilifeform: it's in line with what he said his goals were "to warn people"
1577100;1480732989;phf;i checked b-a log because somebody mentioned activity, a few weeks ago and it's literally the same conversation. i remember he tried directly intervening, "warning" cockli guy i think, and cockli's reaction was "you seem like a crazy dude with an agenda", but i guess a strategy of "mpex is long gong and nobody heard from mp" probably works better
1577101;1480733475;jurov;O.o mpex isn't dead?
1577102;1480733624;phf;nice try
1577103;1480734176;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576646 << was that the gossipd one ?
1577104;1480734176;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:31 phf: that was the conclusion of the thread last time we had this conversation, yes
1577105;1480734230;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576653 << the way i have this sketched in my head is that you ~as your avatar~ have a presence that's distinct from you ~as your freenode nick~.
1577106;1480734230;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:35 danielpbarron: i mean i'm not gonna put my key on a networked machine
1577107;1480734256;mircea_popescu;you will have to have ~a~ key online as a matter of course for the client to connect ; but it doesn't have to be THE key in any sense.
1577108;1480734664;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576658 << the way i intend THAT to work is that client connects to server, by sending encrypted magic packet which includes its fp ; if server has that fp it sends challenge string and logs in the player ; if server has not that fp it sends challenge string and proceeds ot character creation. nice and streamlined.
1577109;1480734664;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:35 danielpbarron: so i assumed people would still have to resister their actual key with the bot prior to getting their eulora account
1577110;1480734983;mircea_popescu;basically this will include a (hopefully improved) rsa implementation as part of the client. the details still very much in air.
1577111;1480735162;mircea_popescu;one particular angle would be that if we generate republic-rsa keys (see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524210 eg) as opposed to koch-rsa keys then yes eulora server will have to dump its privately maintained wot to deedbot periodically ; but on the upside we get very cheap transition to the new format while maintaining all the backwards compatibility one could want.
1577112;1480735162;a111;Logged on 2016-08-18 12:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're on this btw, the way i want tmsr-rsa key generation to work is as follows : a contains a number of entropy bytes specified by user in tmsr-rsa.conf read whenever tmsr-rsa.conf specifies (such as urandom); b contains a base-tmsr string specified by user. c = base-tmsr(a).b ; p = nextprime(cut(sha512(c),257)) ; process is repeated for q = nextprime (cut(sha512(c'),258));
1577113;1480735186;mircea_popescu;and we can have nice things such as fixed time keygen, such as "key generation takes 24 hours - come back tomorrow".
1577114;1480735688;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576690 << too many ifs ; and for that matter the problem of "what to do with the intestate" is unsolvable in the general sense. the best approach is for the man to write a fucking testament already. there's deedbot for this purpose, it is wrong to you know, have an ethereum-powered mechanism to decide FOR gauss what of the coffin liners should be rescued.
1577115;1480735688;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:46 asciilifeform: phf: if pubkey is preserved, and privkey of dead man -- well-destroyed, suddenly the 'donation of constantine' problem evaporates.
1577116;1480735836;mod6;just finished catching up on mega-log
1577117;1480735875;mircea_popescu;had fun ?
1577118;1480735913;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576713 << i read it at the time. i didn't like it among other things because it exhibits unbounded complexity. iirc we discussed this briefly back then.
1577119;1480735913;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:53 asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 << oblig
1577120;1480735986;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> and herein included - all my ratings. you can not at some point come and say "X scammed me of a btc and you had him rated +1 therefore you owe me some cents" << while reading, this is what I was thinking too.  We've seen many times where someone reputable has a positive rating for X, and then later X scams out.  These ratings can't act as a guarantee; which would place the rater in some leg
1577121;1480735992;mod6;al jeopardy.
1577122;1480735994;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576722 << and what if he thought your grandmother was sexy ?
1577123;1480735994;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:57 trinque: if my dead grandfather hated someone, I would most certainly care about that given that he was a man I respected.
1577124;1480736003;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/935C281E93290085CEF5E89EA683BF22ADF83017C0C76A563E494485929B1BFB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1370...7267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.225.241.126 (ssh-rsa key from 195.225.241.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1577125;1480736003;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/678090924806DAD56D7DC5111D33E4B7E22C62E7D43813D17ED89BB06ECD4CDE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1560...2357 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '198.102.73.67 (ssh-rsa key from 198.102.73.67 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blacklist.day.org. US)
1577126;1480736050;mircea_popescu;mod6 not only that, but there's a lot of flexibility required in actual human intercourse. "x is a great drunk and a miserable father, so has - from daughter and + from me. i'm friends with the daughter and we fuck occasionally. problem ?"
1577127;1480736099;mircea_popescu;the wot isn't a computable graph. i mean it's drawable, obviously, and the drawing's not futile, but just because the machine can draw it dun mean the machine grasps it.
1577128;1480736101;mod6;yeah, i see.
1577129;1480736131;mod6;this reminds me of this line in your unicode paper.
1577130;1480736193;mircea_popescu;and ironically i can give a negative evaluation in spite of my positive rating - other lady friend asks me about having kids with the guy - i'll tell her about daugther ; and if the daughter's not a total futz, if her drinking friend asks about dad he'll get a + notwithstanding he's an asshole. or maybe won't, depending on how much of an asshole he is generally. but there's the ambiguity.
1577131;1480736232;mod6;yeah.
1577132;1480736309;mod6;i get trinque's worry; that he'll wake up and find his wallet emptied out; and he wants a pill against that.  the preposed solution is fine for that.  but signed ratings is not the answer imho.
1577133;1480736331;mircea_popescu;i think actually he was perfectly satisfied with what we arrived at.
1577134;1480736354;mod6;it's even happened to me.  i rated a guy with positive rating, he didn't scam me at all.  but he apparently scammed some other people.
1577135;1480736363;mod6;should I be hung up by my heels for that?
1577136;1480736397;mircea_popescu;there's the case of aethero, perhaps the best illustration of this. guy had a top 10 rating by any abstract measurement, lots of ratings from many people.
1577137;1480736404;mod6;especially when my transcation happened before his other "scammy" dealings
1577138;1480736426;mircea_popescu;and of course there's the case of pirate, which hanbot actually analysed at length on the forum years ago, in retort to some idiot going "o see, the wot doesn't work, pirate had high rating"
1577139;1480736437;mircea_popescu;yes, he had a high rating consisting of 500 idiots going "he doubled my moneyz!!!"
1577140;1480736439;mircea_popescu;hurr.
1577141;1480736440;mod6;yeah.
1577142;1480736470;mod6;lol seen it all.
1577143;1480736657;mod6;btw, lol @ washitistan
1577144;1480736663;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576727 << no, actually it isn't. the signed V element is actually a deed ; it gets maintained by an alternative mechanism than the deeds because we're still working with all this shit and trying to figure it out. but fundamentally, it is a deed not a rating.
1577145;1480736663;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:58 asciilifeform: it is an instance of same material.
1577146;1480736669;mircea_popescu;mod6 :p
1577147;1480736857;mod6;I agree there too.  When you sign a vpatch, you're saying, "I, have read (or wrote) this, and I place my seal upon it as it is correct and right."  Not, "mod6 wrote this thing, I rate him a '+1 Cool Guy' for effort."
1577148;1480736884;mircea_popescu;yeah srsly
1577149;1480736947;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576744 << this i think is entirely undisputed.
1577150;1480736947;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 21:01 asciilifeform: phf: in my cosmography, a 'rater' is a pubkey
1577151;1480737006;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576753 << this is not altogether a bad idea, except of course for the fact that the derps aren't in the wot.
1577152;1480737006;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 21:05 asciilifeform: but picture , for instance, if phuctor bot rated keys that were phuctored, in the moment of.
1577153;1480737017;mircea_popescu;so kinda too much effort for ~no payout.
1577154;1480737141;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576770 << except this is how memory works - shoddy computing infrastructure is how you forget.
1577155;1480737141;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 21:20 trinque: if it is better to forget, lets make that explicit. when/why, and not just as an artifact of being built on shoddy computing infrastructure.
1577156;1480737289;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576781 << actually, it IS the present trinque, and must be. in order to voice itself, the guy named trinque must talk to deedbot, and reply with the right challenge. so yes we forced the shitty freenode name system into a very strong thing.
1577157;1480737289;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 21:31 trinque: something else comes to mind; there exists in our logs a person named trinque who is not the present trinque
1577158;1480737338;mircea_popescu;if you stop showing up, and some other dude for some reason ends up with your nick, such as through asking freenode for it say, he won't be able to voice himself - which encourages him to get a "fresh" nick.
1577159;1480737352;mircea_popescu;so the whole scheme fails correctly.
1577160;1480737360;asciilifeform;i thought he was referring to a pre- +m trinque
1577161;1480737365;asciilifeform;at some point in prehistory
1577162;1480737377;trinque;no, was referring to myself with different opinions
1577163;1480737380;asciilifeform;aah
1577164;1480737392;*;asciilifeform looked for one, in vain, in ancient l0gz
1577165;1480737413;mod6;i thought also that i remembered some guy who tried to hijack your nick or something.
1577166;1480737416;mod6;back in like '13
1577167;1480737432;trinque;point was that there was permanent history in logs, ephemerality in ratings, but we've since discussed that distinction at length.
1577168;1480737530;mod6;So, changing subjects for a minute... I have these lamport battle-ready pub/priv keys made.
1577169;1480737552;mod6;I should clearsign the pubkey with my pgp-pubkey and deedbot this, aha?
1577170;1480737561;asciilifeform;mod6: seems like the thing to do , neh ?
1577171;1480737571;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577133 << aha, I am.
1577172;1480737571;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 03:38 mircea_popescu: i think actually he was perfectly satisfied with what we arrived at.
1577173;1480737600;mod6;Yah, and then should I need it, I can use the lamport priv key to send a message "hey, it's mod6. my new pgpkey fp is: ABCDEF1234567890..."
1577174;1480737608;mod6;right?
1577175;1480737616;mircea_popescu;yeah, there's gonna be a bit of overlap/restating agreement as i go through the whole pile. sorry bout the department of redundancy department.
1577176;1480737696;mircea_popescu;but re the whole "each pope gets fisherman ring  - and it is destroyed on death" alf concern - yes, having one's privkeys destroyed properly is pretty much the only worldly charge of men.
1577177;1480737727;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577137 << evaluating people based on their ~ratings~ is imho 'coarse error in pilotage'
1577178;1480737727;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 03:40 mod6: especially when my transcation happened before his other "scammy" dealings
1577179;1480737740;asciilifeform;(their ratings of others)
1577180;1480737814;mircea_popescu;so if some guy shows up and negrates me you derive no information from this ?
1577181;1480737823;mod6;i agree, but it tends to happen.  that still doesn't take away that my rating is ~not~ a guarantee of anything.
1577182;1480737845;mircea_popescu;suppose what's his face with the blog shows up, +rates koch and that other idiot, and -rates you and mod6
1577183;1480737851;mircea_popescu;am i to not infer nuttin ?
1577184;1480737888;asciilifeform;maybe he just like folx without a's or 6's in their name.
1577185;1480737891;asciilifeform;*likes
1577186;1480737899;mod6;haha
1577187;1480737908;mircea_popescu;granted, maybe.\
1577188;1480737937;mircea_popescu;more generally, maybe he's confused, maybe he's unhinged, maybe he's an asshole, but there's no bright mind promise in there.
1577189;1480737952;mod6;i beleive that mentally, when you read a rating, you grok this text on some level, which invokes some type of response.  i can be ignored, sure, but it happened never the less.
1577190;1480738082;mircea_popescu;mod6 i confess i've not gotten my head altogether around the lamport thing.
1577191;1480738112;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what part did not make immediate sense ?
1577192;1480738117;asciilifeform;it's world's simplest pubkey sig scheme
1577193;1480738140;asciilifeform;and is provably as strong as your hash (can be any hash you like)
1577194;1480738161;asciilifeform;(to break n-bit lamportron, you need n collisions AT ONCE)
1577195;1480738178;mircea_popescu;no no, it makes sense in what it is. its implications though, are far reaching. even something as simple as "how strong is your hash"
1577196;1480738203;asciilifeform;i'll point out that i can forge , e.g., gpg signature from mircea_popescu if i find ONE collision
1577197;1480738205;mircea_popescu;it's no criticism whatsoever, it's confession. i'm working on it.
1577198;1480738241;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1762 << link for anyone who has nfi what is this thread.
1577199;1480738256;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you mean, "if i find aes collision, i can replace signed text with (longer) signed text" ?
1577200;1480738265;mod6;since it's confession time: I read asciilifeform's post probably 5 times total.  Following through all of the steps at least 2x to get the hang of what was going on there, and reviewing the code.
1577201;1480738267;asciilifeform;sha512 collision
1577202;1480738300;mircea_popescu;aha right.
1577203;1480738312;mircea_popescu;still, it'd be pretty evident.
1577204;1480738318;asciilifeform;or, alternatively, a much easier sha1 collision, in which case i only fool ~all extant gpg clients~ but not a d00d with magnifying glass actually multiplying out the rsa
1577205;1480738326;mircea_popescu;"o look, mp often signs 85 kb strings of random letters"
1577206;1480738333;mod6;I like what it does, and it seems to make sense in the case where I might need this one single time.  To prevent against cryptographic death, I can generate this key pair, sign it with my PGP key, and then send a one time message of my new PGP key fp to save me from hitting the ground.
1577207;1480738372;asciilifeform;mod6: the parachute isn't risk-free, if you hid it somewhere where enemy may turn it up, it can be worse than useless
1577208;1480738380;mircea_popescu;^
1577209;1480738386;mircea_popescu;as far as you know... "the implications" go.
1577210;1480738401;asciilifeform;fwiw i thought this was quite clear.
1577211;1480738411;mircea_popescu;certainly.
1577212;1480738414;mod6;yeah, all those considerations are valid too asciilifeform
1577213;1480738415;asciilifeform;has same downfall as keeping a spare pgp key a la mircea_popescu's
1577214;1480738462;mircea_popescu;well yes, the advantage being you don't have to know aforehand what you intend to use
1577215;1480738473;asciilifeform;probably i ought to have called it a cryptographic ejection seat
1577216;1480738478;mod6;It's weight of responsibility of protecting yet another key, or the possibility of being locked out of heaven.
1577217;1480738551;asciilifeform;mod6: lamportron is not merely 'spare key' but to ensure against a specific scenario, rsacalypse
1577218;1480738570;asciilifeform;i delved into subj seriously for first time after the close call in august
1577219;1480738589;mod6;and we've seen how close the rsacalypse.  i feel like we were right there a few months back.
1577220;1480738594;mod6;yes. indeed.
1577221;1480738596;asciilifeform;picture if i ~had~ found that i can derive everybody's 1.4.10 priv.
1577222;1480738618;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in my mind this drove the reaction of alt-rsa in eulora, for instance.
1577223;1480738632;asciilifeform;right
1577224;1480738773;mod6;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/GotIs/?raw=true
1577225;1480738824;deedbot;accepted: 1
1577226;1480738896;mircea_popescu;you know it's not a bad idea ot have recitals for these things.
1577227;1480738909;mircea_popescu;"here is so and so made for this and that" etc.
1577228;1480738996;mod6;ah, shit.  i guess i agree.  maybe I should have put a line in the top of that thing.
1577229;1480739044;mircea_popescu;remember for next time.
1577230;1480739063;mod6;fair enough, i can just throw in another i suppose.
1577231;1480739076;asciilifeform;nono 1s
1577232;1480739094;mod6;aight, will remember for next time though.
1577233;1480739141;asciilifeform;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5r5gk/?raw=true
1577234;1480739154;deedbot;accepted: 1
1577235;1480739171;asciilifeform;now gotta test, does this verify-mod6 after stripped of asciilifeform's pgpsig ?
1577236;1480739225;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577071 << bwahaha
1577237;1480739225;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 01:26 shinohai: Life imitates art: http://archive.is/pg5B6
1577238;1480739341;mod6;asciilifeform: your sig verifies, mine does not, unless you remove the '- ' infront of the '------' lines
1577239;1480739347;mod6;then it does verify.
1577240;1480739744;mod6;you are backing us away from "number of seconds from 'midnight' of rsacalypse" one step at a time.  first lamport, then FUCKGOATS, each step helps.
1577241;1480739769;mod6;so, thanks for all your efforts.  i appreciate it.
1577242;1480739772;trinque;pretty sure --decrypt unwraps those
1577243;1480739779;trinque;on signed material
1577244;1480739797;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : supermax prison in colorado holds among the child eaters &c a 70yo gent who for some reason plead guilty to "being a cuban agent for 30 years", two years after retiring from his job and three years after saying that the us-uk "special relationship" is a joke on the us side.
1577245;1480739799;mod6;lemme try that trinque
1577246;1480739833;asciilifeform;did they put the d00d who was picked up for 'child pr0n' the day he demonstrated the glock-on-quadcopter ?
1577247;1480739838;asciilifeform;in same prison
1577248;1480739855;mircea_popescu;prolly diff one.
1577249;1480739899;mod6;trinque: that does fix that ya.
1577250;1480739901;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform bonus points - got caught by... undercover operation! fancy this wonder.
1577251;1480740107;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577240 << oblig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sXPmz9b4lM
1577252;1480740107;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 04:35 mod6: you are backing us away from "number of seconds from 'midnight' of rsacalypse" one step at a time.  first lamport, then FUCKGOATS, each step helps.
1577253;1480740801;mod6;ah iron maiden
1577254;1480741291;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes ftr phenomenon is singular.
1577255;1480741613;mircea_popescu;but i lolled at the dry "a very long depreciation schedule, possibly inexcess of five years".
1577256;1480746374;BingoBoingo;A+++ logs
1577257;1480752956;mats;http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-spoke-with-taiwan-president-tsai-ing-wen-1480718423 lul
1577258;1480765627;shinohai;!~ticker --market all
1577259;1480765633;jhvh1;shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 760.89, vol: 5365.70419044 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 755.521, vol: 3563.39157 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 763.85, vol: 8737.89557743 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 781.34298, vol: 962462.16350000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 765.512, vol: 1891.42255614 | Volume-weighted last average: 780.951385994
1577260;1480770804;mircea_popescu;check it out, alf's fuckgoats + trinque's wot work + ben_vulpes 's brunnr + things -> btc goes up 10%.
1577261;1480770823;mircea_popescu;kinda gives a useful estimation of the total value of the whole rest of the ecosystem, i guess.
1577262;1480770841;thestringpuller;UK "banned" end to end encryption with Investigory Powers Act of 2016. I think it basically says companies in UK have to put back doors in their shit or they are "non-compliant", thus making end-2-end encryption illegal. Effects Blockchain.info users (who operates in UK). Takes effect 2017...
1577263;1480770881;mircea_popescu;afects.
1577264;1480770910;thestringpuller;mah anglish not so gud
1577265;1480770914;mircea_popescu;lol
1577266;1480770942;mircea_popescu;i suppose Framedragger now has to move.
1577267;1480771100;shinohai;To quote mircea_popescu " the irc festivities are moving over to #trilema ; with a more selective lordship list and improved tools all around. " I think the improved tools have indeed materialized.
1577268;1480771119;mircea_popescu;i'd say so yeh
1577269;1480771213;shinohai;I know of no other chan with such useful bots as this one has.
1577270;1480771279;mircea_popescu;never existed, even if you count bbses / webforums, the whole tree.
1577271;1480771682;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5503CEAD5D63424D8B1200DA00A1BA31A8978C2C243767C2F0D93D3DEBAEA154 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1757...6617 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.151.30.26 (ssh-rsa key from 83.151.30.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ckoehler.de. DE)
1577272;1480771738;mircea_popescu;there are teams with better history, because linux or whatever. i wouldn't however bet on the theory there are better teams altogether. and no, "secret meta-nsa" doesn't get to dent this discussion. because clinton lost.
1577273;1480771768;mircea_popescu;as far as taming computors, there's the most serene republic, and then there's the everyone else.
1577274;1480772049;mircea_popescu;btw since http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 was mentioned again, it must be said : "Not only are there times when one would like to seal a payload with a caveat of one kind or another, but presently we have no means of conveying disapproval – other than by refraining from sealing. The latter act conveys very little useful information, and no permanent sealed record remains of the effort taken to actually understand the patch.
1577275;1480772049;mircea_popescu; This is a Bad Thing." << this is both exactly correct and exactly inescapable. we will at some point have to do something about it.
1577276;1480772441;shinohai;I'm tempted to blow a few bitcents spamming the shit out of this: https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/
1577277;1480772799;mircea_popescu;not an unreasonable thing is it ?
1577278;1480772833;mircea_popescu;their idea i mean. "allow humans who give a shit to signal this to the network ; and allow their txn go first"
1577279;1480773061;shinohai;This is on of the "Bitcoin Unlimited" pools. They have "Bigger Blocks" so they can handle it xD
1577280;1480773067;shinohai;*one of
1577281;1480773106;mircea_popescu;eh, who can't handle it.
1577282;1480773106;*;shinohai never really has problem when using trb .... tx fee is set at 0.001
1577283;1480773114;mircea_popescu;have you seen any blocks where NO free txn were included ?
1577284;1480773138;mircea_popescu;so you replace the "coin age" convention with the "captcha on website" convention, they're both the same sort of nonsense, trying to aprpoximate "real people" in machine language.
1577285;1480775767;BingoBoingo;But with captcha "major" pool gets to scam a couple adcents
1577286;1480775892;mircea_popescu;lol. such bidniss sense in these people. let 'em enjoy.
1577287;1480776070;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577271 << debian etch
1577288;1480776070;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 13:28 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5503CEAD5D63424D8B1200DA00A1BA31A8978C2C243767C2F0D93D3DEBAEA154 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1757...6617 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.151.30.26 (ssh-rsa key from 83.151.30.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ckoehler.de. DE)
1577289;1480777868;asciilifeform;in other ooooldz, http://www.oswego.edu/~baloglou/misc/index.html << every once in a long while i find one of these, uncle al - style fossils from when www was as a whole worth something
1577290;1480779152;*;mircea_popescu reads the comments on alf's vectored sigs piece, is thoroughly confused
1577291;1480779154;mircea_popescu;wtf is this ?!
1577292;1480779784;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/a-collection-of-distinctions/ << Trilema - A collection of distinctions
1577293;1480780314;asciilifeform;there were comments?!
1577294;1480780624;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1577295;1480780636;mircea_popescu;and a hell of a menagerie at that.
1577296;1480780656;asciilifeform;oh heh, looks like an entire mircea_popescu 2nd take on subj. i'ma read, bbl.
1577297;1480780665;mircea_popescu;incidentally paul niquette is a very pleasant read.
1577298;1480781135;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5503CEAD5D63424D8B1200DA00A1BA31A8978C2C243767C2F0D93D3DEBAEA154 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1448...6109 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.151.30.26 (ssh-rsa key from 83.151.30.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ckoehler.de. DE)
1577299;1480781546;shinohai;Looks like the tub-of-lard should be spending weekend at the gym, but what do I know: http://archive.is/KB7XS
1577300;1480782269;mircea_popescu;"BTW - what was that game withe gnome, the guy and the girl who were fighting against creatures and you could cast magic too?" << guaranteed to be golden axe.
1577301;1480782457;mircea_popescu;this guy. calling 'software engineering' 'computer science' is tantamount to calling 'mechanical engineering' 'automobile science.' and the 'debugger,' is a misnomer tantamount to calling a 'magnifying glass' an 'insecticide.'
1577302;1480784094;danielpbarron;sounds like secret of mana
1577303;1480784105;mircea_popescu;let's play a little with numbers since we're reading this guy. so : " Silicon Valley Rapid Transit Project (SVRT) a $5 billion design-build project for a 16-mile extension of the Bay Area Rapid Transit District (BART) with six stations" (from http://www.niquette.com/paul/access/resume.html ). now then : total track in world is ~2 1/4 mn km. using "global warming" "scientific" best practices, we conclude that a 1 billiard inve
1577304;1480784106;mircea_popescu;stment in infrastructure would just about result in doubling, provided "infrastructure" is strictly defined to mean rail, and excludes energy generation, hospitals, schools, roads, even busses.
1577305;1480784169;mircea_popescu;let it also be noted that 1 billiard is the usg bezzle-gdp for about 80 years, and it becomes rather evident : nothing the shitstains of today can do could even conceivably come to matter.
1577306;1480784397;mats;wat
1577307;1480784426;mats;80 years of usg bezzle-gdp from what year to what year?
1577308;1480785563;mats;nvm. gdp as a measurement has only been around since near the end of the great depression
1577309;1480794808;mircea_popescu;mats from 2016 to 2096, proposing it holds.
1577310;1480794813;mircea_popescu;1 billiard = 10 ** 15
1577311;1480795918;mats;oh ok
1577312;1480796050;mircea_popescu;so you know : 80 years at current rate to re-do trains, 90 years to re-do roads, 50 years to redo hospitals, 150 to re-do electricity and cable network...
1577313;1480796072;mircea_popescu;10x what it historically took, and that's not counting two wars in between.
1577314;1480796151;mircea_popescu;lowest productivity of the ship in the ship's recent history, apparently overliteracy mimics illiteracy quite well, we're well pre-1700 levels back here.
1577315;1480796480;mircea_popescu;in continuing lulz, "Advanced Patent Technologies, Las Vegas, NV. 1978 – 1981, Consultant, Business Development. Mr. Niquette marketed a patent portfolio and managed the launching of startups in diverse industries, including video animation and special effects, dental instruments, and advanced engine designs for public transportation vehicles and farm machinery." << check it out, someone did start-ups before graham ?!?!? HE
1577316;1480796480;mircea_popescu;RESY!
1577317;1480796488;mats;i was thinking the americans in #t should pool an emergency airlift fund
1577318;1480796502;mats;as there appears to be so much consensus about us collapse
1577319;1480796522;mircea_popescu;why, to encourage the "i just wanted" folk to rely on it ?
1577320;1480796597;mats;i dunno what that means
1577321;1480796623;mircea_popescu;how could i help ?
1577322;1480796659;mats;divine the nature of the collapse
1577323;1480796685;mircea_popescu;ugh what am i, mafalda ?
1577324;1480796748;mats;that reference is also beyond me
1577325;1480796837;mircea_popescu;princess mafalda of savoy, popularly thought to be an oracle.
1577326;1480796860;mats;ah
1577327;1480797165;trinque;eh I'm curious where Texas ends up, gonna stay right here.
1577328;1480797168;trinque;no airlift for me
1577329;1480797192;mats;http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/middleeast/iraq-mosul-battle-isis << in other news, coalition death toll stands at 2k, civilian losses about the same
1577330;1480797286;mats;also, congress has authorized potus to arm .sy opposition with american AA missiles
1577331;1480797291;mats;l0l
1577332;1480797417;asciilifeform;the correct ru response would be to supply "стрела" rockets to montana militias
1577333;1480797440;asciilifeform;and black city dopewarriorz
1577334;1480797444;mats;as if there aren't enough manpads in syria as it is
1577335;1480797508;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577317 << how do you picture this?
1577336;1480797508;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 20:21 mats: i was thinking the americans in #t should pool an emergency airlift fund
1577337;1480797541;asciilifeform;price of air ticket has never been a problem for anyone worth talking about
1577338;1480797595;asciilifeform;whereas price of 'diamond train' ticket is guaranteed to be 'all you got, and then some moar' at best
1577339;1480797835;trinque;gotta establish business in another place well before you leave if you don't want to be a refugee
1577340;1480797855;mats;latter doesn't have to be, though
1577341;1480797910;mats;i picture the fund covering the cost of pilot, plane, fuel, hasty emergency runway construction, and minimal perimeter security
1577342;1480798047;asciilifeform;mats: are you familiar with why ~0 jews moved to south america in '40?
1577343;1480798058;asciilifeform;'40s
1577344;1480798113;mats;how does it compare with nazis moving to south america in the 50s?
1577345;1480798130;mats;(no, i'm not familiar with why jews didn't move there)
1577346;1480798137;asciilifeform;nazis had cia & catholic support network
1577347;1480798150;asciilifeform;they were not going penniless to jungles.
1577348;1480798155;mircea_popescu;plenty of jews moved in the 30s.
1577349;1480798195;mircea_popescu;and re diamond train : the historical item worked as such : that a coupla dozen businessmen paid for all of it, and then there were 5x that many people who didn't pay a dime that also went with it.
1577350;1480798220;asciilifeform;iirc they were meatwot placements
1577351;1480798229;asciilifeform;but also some payers
1577352;1480798249;mircea_popescu;well however it shall be explained, most got a "free" ride.
1577353;1480798490;asciilifeform;btw if mats knows a useful skill to live off in the free world, wtf is he still doing in usascwitz today!
1577354;1480798507;asciilifeform;suitcase, airplane!
1577355;1480798550;mats;i don't, and i'm still struggling with the idea of abandoning everything and everyone i know to an uncertain fate
1577356;1480798578;mircea_popescu;aww.
1577357;1480798596;mircea_popescu;well maybe the aliens will pay for it!
1577358;1480798603;asciilifeform;usachwitz never historically worked by removing passports from inmates (though, in BingoBoingo's case...) but rather by mutilating folx to make'em unfit for life outside
1577359;1480798701;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had a piece about this.
1577360;1480798718;mircea_popescu;poor thems!
1577361;1480798787;mats;i almost forgot about alf's fatalism
1577362;1480798797;mats;he plans to die face down in the swamp
1577363;1480798836;asciilifeform;mats: like you, i have no knowledge of a useful in free world profession.
1577364;1480798844;mats;i got the option of fleeing to .cn, this fantastical train of thought isn't really for my benefit
1577365;1480798855;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fancy this - paul niquette is wikinotable enough to - figure in the article on tukey and no more.
1577366;1480798868;asciilifeform;go while the planes are running, mats.
1577367;1480798915;mats;i dunno why you feel this way about your talents
1577368;1480798924;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fwiw i only learned of him today, from mircea_popescu
1577369;1480798926;mats;the least you could is ... help desk? c'mon
1577370;1480798938;asciilifeform;mats: i'll take bullet instead.
1577371;1480798939;mircea_popescu;really ?
1577372;1480798945;mats;lol
1577373;1480798958;*;mircea_popescu knew of guy for being one of the xerox management involved in parc.
1577374;1480799001;asciilifeform;the good old one? or the new, rotten parc
1577375;1480799016;mircea_popescu;the 1960s one
1577376;1480799023;asciilifeform;neato
1577377;1480799041;*;asciilifeform puts on list to read man's complete worx 
1577378;1480799059;mircea_popescu;iirc he did some academia in the 70s, but mostly management consultancy.
1577379;1480799085;mircea_popescu;in which field he's you know, folks like locklin's unconfessed but quite evident ideal.
1577380;1480799103;*;asciilifeform can picture 
1577381;1480799153;asciilifeform;sadly these were people of a lost era, where there were not only actual brains around, but massive surplus wealth from the great monopolists like bell
1577382;1480799187;mircea_popescu;certainly goes in that "great men from different era" rubric.
1577383;1480799328;mircea_popescu;before the "digg revolution" which subsists today in derpy wanan-be incantations like 9gag, reddit etc, and before the great "internet revolution" of aol shitting all voer the place, there was another substantially identical "revolution", where pointless college degrees started sitting pointessly in offices cca 1970 and creating "office life". but BEFORE all that scum and rot, most dumb kids were farmers, and smart kids were
1577384;1480799329;mircea_popescu;found at palo alto and etc.
1577385;1480799349;mircea_popescu;this last thing would be the "different era", ie, before mass literacy filled the desks with cowboys.
1577386;1480799359;asciilifeform;eh bureaucracy existed
1577387;1480799383;mircea_popescu;and bbs-es existed. of course they existed. but there was a significant change about the time it also happened in the su.
1577388;1480799408;asciilifeform;gogol's 'overcoat' is 19th c
1577389;1480799418;mircea_popescu;even so.
1577390;1480799443;mircea_popescu;very different thing from the socialist-state-middle-class bureaucracy of the 70s.
1577391;1480799497;mircea_popescu;i mean, the turks fucking had an idle class of ethnic greeks living in fanar for 3+ centuries, exactly mappable to any modern understanding of bureaucracy. nevertheless.
1577392;1480799499;asciilifeform;at any rate, that era is as far removed from asciilifeform's lived experience as the glory-of-rome
1577393;1480799518;mircea_popescu;i believe. though it was not really so far back.
1577394;1480799710;asciilifeform;in not quite related noose, asciilifeform took his brother to a phone shop to activate a very vintage 'krazor', and the clerks all wished to know where they can also get one...
1577395;1480799734;mircea_popescu;heh.
1577396;1480799829;asciilifeform;(a classical 'dumbphone', matchbox-sized thing, with actual buttons and --- strangely alone in ENTIRE class of dumbphone other than it - whitelist ringer)
1577397;1480799860;asciilifeform;^ if anyone knows of another - plz post...
1577398;1480799920;*;mircea_popescu used to have a landline thing installed for the same purpose.
1577399;1480800091;mircea_popescu;!!up B1M0
1577400;1480800092;deedbot;B1M0 voiced for 30 minutes.
1577401;1480800411;mircea_popescu;!!up nick_name
1577402;1480800411;deedbot;nick_name voiced for 30 minutes.
1577403;1480800459;nick_name;Why we should use merkle tree for block checking? That is possible to get hash of all transactions instead.
1577404;1480800509;mircea_popescu;merkle tree allows you to spot the problem.
1577405;1480800564;nick_name;why we should spot the problem?
1577406;1480800592;mircea_popescu;generally the question you want to answer is "is this tx included in this block". with a hash tree that is log N, with a hash list that is N proportional.
1577407;1480800635;nick_name;Thank you!
1577408;1480800638;mircea_popescu;yw.
1577409;1480800746;nick_name;Can we use nosql database for all transactions? it should be more faster in comparison of checking each block.
1577410;1480800756;mircea_popescu;who's we ?
1577411;1480800922;nick_name;i want to optimize searching algoritm.
1577412;1480800931;nick_name;'we' in general
1577413;1480800982;mircea_popescu;well, pick up the V tree and submit a patch ; ben_vulpes is already running http://cascadianhacker.com/update-mimisbrunnr-last-block-received on the trb infrastructure.
1577414;1480800998;mircea_popescu;or alternatively read the various discussions in the log and mailing list re trb reform.
1577415;1480802448;mats;http://missilethreat.csis.org/missile-war-yemen neat-o
1577416;1480805443;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/12/emergency-mozilla-bulletin-stop-using-firefox/#comment-80523
1577417;1480806799;mircea_popescu;heh
1577418;1480806809;mircea_popescu;i dun think there's anything in the mozilla tree that's rescuable.
1577419;1480806889;mircea_popescu;an epic fucking failure, that whole wanna-be trilema thing.
1577420;1480807007;mircea_popescu;https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2016/12/01/state-of-mozilla-2015-annual-report/ << one year late, absolutely nothing worth the mention in there, plenty of things worth the noose.
1577421;1480807202;mircea_popescu;speaking of which - who's going to do the "all republican things 2016 retrospective" ?
1577422;1480807286;mats;BingoBoingo: 'Wordfence' is not Mozilla
1577423;1480807303;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515745 << we've completed tests and confirmed we can actually link ada code. i'm thinking, prolly the best way is to make an official and definitive tmsr-rsa ~in ada~ as a v root ? or hows's your general numeric thing coming along and more importantly what's it written in ?
1577424;1480807303;a111;Logged on 2016-08-06 00:01 asciilifeform proposes to implement this subsystem for s.mg.
1577425;1480807316;mats;just some folks that make a wordpress plugin
1577426;1480808045;mircea_popescu;and speaking of mozilla,
1577427;1480808095;mircea_popescu;jwzs and other just wanted tos, sam yagan (the edonkey guy who then make okcupid and who then engaged in that ridoinculous publicity stunt over eich's donating 1k to some dudes campaigning against gay marriage in california) is as fine an example as it gets.
1577428;1480808137;mircea_popescu;2nd generation immigrant, sold edonkey to barnes&noble, sold okcupid to iac, will sell his highschool sweetheart if it comes to that or no more starbucks.
1577429;1480810261;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577423 << i got 2
1577430;1480810261;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 23:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515745 << we've completed tests and confirmed we can actually link ada code. i'm thinking, prolly the best way is to make an official and definitive tmsr-rsa ~in ada~ as a v root ? or hows's your general numeric thing coming along and more importantly what's it written in ?
1577431;1480810292;mircea_popescu;a small one with which you pee and a bigger one with which mrs neighbour brushes her teeth ?
1577432;1480810306;asciilifeform;neither ~quite~ ready for battlefield, but nearly there, picked it up again after goat properly fucked
1577433;1480810317;mircea_popescu;alrighty.
1577434;1480810423;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577428 << holyshit i forgot how donkey was originally commercial shitware! with ads!
1577435;1480810423;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 23:35 mircea_popescu: 2nd generation immigrant, sold edonkey to barnes&noble, sold okcupid to iac, will sell his highschool sweetheart if it comes to that or no more starbucks.
1577436;1480810445;*;asciilifeform never used any variant but 'amule'
1577437;1480810446;mircea_popescu;aha. vajapaypay or whateveray gotta make a buck.
1577438;1480810462;*;asciilifeform STILL uses 
1577439;1480810527;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577413 << this is mighty spiffy
1577440;1480810527;a111;Logged on 2016-12-03 21:36 mircea_popescu: well, pick up the V tree and submit a patch ; ben_vulpes is already running http://cascadianhacker.com/update-mimisbrunnr-last-block-received on the trb infrastructure.
1577441;1480810554;asciilifeform;how didja handle reorgs, ben_vulpes ?
1577442;1480810819;mircea_popescu;https://photos.smugmug.com/Family/Severy-Family-Scanned/i-HsBHTwM/1/L/Derwyn%20%28Dodie%29%20M%20Severy%20and%20friend-L.jpg << nutso what women wore pre women's lib.
1577443;1480813930;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1577444;1480813931;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 441806 | Current Difficulty: 2.867657668205504E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 443519 | Next Difficulty In: 1713 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 20 hours, 16 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1577445;1480813942;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1577446;1480813948;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 761.04, vol: 2673.11544483 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 759.207, vol: 3105.09101 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 763.54, vol: 5669.77640856 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 783.009876, vol: 1203986.02610000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 764.0, vol: 635.34118969 | Volume-weighted last average: 782.800097082
1577447;1480815404;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/536B2E0C3DC834B18591F004C8F3094D63BB7C86D67FB5BBBAFBA913FAC71B9E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1400...3673 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.243.130.154 (ssh-rsa key from 77.243.130.154 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DK 83)
1577448;1480816458;BingoBoingo;Holliday cheer http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/
1577449;1480816484;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/22249D5A959CA57763AC084915E6BB0B5BC61CF2A055F6E5D443CE0E9B550DB1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2409...4663 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.180.1.119 (ssh-rsa key from 212.180.1.119 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (dcc2.easynet.fr. FR)
1577450;1480818021;BingoBoingo;"The idea for these arrests came from something called the Minneapolis Police Experiment (MPE) of 1981-82. In the experiment police offices were given pads with one of three words written on them... The results show counseling resulted in a future assault in 24% cases, send was 19%, and the arrest option resulted in a future assault in only 10% of the cases. Perhaps a cheap way of cutting down future domestic violence."
1577451;1480818588;mircea_popescu;yeah, arresting all the dudes women bitch about is going to result in a very cheap way to cut down on complaints once teh muslims move in.
1577452;1480818598;mircea_popescu;worked splendidly in rotterham!
1577453;1480819204;mircea_popescu;in vague lulz, https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/5g57ji/googled_my_username_found_this_list_online_that/
1577454;1480819340;shinohai;The narcissist is surprised to see their reflection in the pool.
1577455;1480819365;mircea_popescu;they're always cute, "oh, someone thinks we're retarded ?!? HOW COULD THIS BE!"
1577456;1480821496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2EEDE1E75CD6E3C7BA28384587BF9B13108A1E30BA5E960D1874EB3C7B7E224E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1020...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.0.37 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.0.37 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1577457;1480821496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E7A1C1F9F8A62C5361ACBC7AFA6E19458556BF986C6492D5EBD6A3EE9762F438 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1020...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.134 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.134 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1577458;1480821496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C30DC71A84187FB781302AD32314639EBF5DFFC2CA1EC163A687BE3415BEE375 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1020...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.0.82 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.0.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1577459;1480821496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C5AA0F8647C698DC26F39805C7A7668AFCAC5951DA2BC8F037715E3DA9E97A2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1020...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.128.19 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.128.19 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US NY)
1577460;1480822006;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/22249D5A959CA57763AC084915E6BB0B5BC61CF2A055F6E5D443CE0E9B550DB1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1394...1467 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.180.1.119 (ssh-rsa key from 212.180.1.119 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (dcc2.easynet.fr. FR)
1577461;1480822006;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/536B2E0C3DC834B18591F004C8F3094D63BB7C86D67FB5BBBAFBA913FAC71B9E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1378...2329 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.243.130.154 (ssh-rsa key from 77.243.130.154 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DK 83)
1577462;1480825127;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/trumpreich-swamp-draining-plans-still-elusive-no-dykes-weirs-or-windmills-proposed/ << Qntra - Trumpreich Swamp Draining Plans Still Elusive, No Dykes, Weirs, Or Windmills Proposed
1577463;1480825948;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5810
1577464;1480827673;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: not particularly robustly, at the moment. when the log-follower observes a line containing REORGANIZE, it re-dumps from the head of the chain back 20 blocks
1577465;1480827733;ben_vulpes;once the sqlization is complete it'll have the smarts to only reload the blocks that actually reorg'd out from underneath it.
1577466;1480827750;ben_vulpes;that said, i occasionally check my logs for reorgs and have yet to see one
1577467;1480827758;mircea_popescu;what are you using, progresql was it ?
1577468;1480827772;ben_vulpes;that's the one
1577469;1480827783;mircea_popescu;was some noob talking nosql earlier in chan
1577470;1480827788;ben_vulpes;i saw
1577471;1480827802;ben_vulpes;great logs recently
1577472;1480827817;mircea_popescu;i still think fsql is the way to go.
1577473;1480827871;mircea_popescu;(file system structured query language)
1577474;1480827875;ben_vulpes;yes i know
1577475;1480827883;ben_vulpes;oodles of symlinks, i read the thead
1577476;1480827915;mircea_popescu;i misplaced my thumbsup utf glyph again
1577477;1480827939;ben_vulpes;what about your eggplant?
1577478;1480827955;mircea_popescu;i've not called my penis that in at least a decade!
1577479;1480827960;ben_vulpes;man should never misplace his eggplant
1577480;1480828068;ben_vulpes;heh, today i learned the unitards are so fully vested in the anti-sex brigade that U+1F346 or 🍆if my client doesn't mangle it, goes by the name of /aubergine/
1577481;1480828174;ben_vulpes;relatedly, there are interesting fault lines at work in the left: anti-sex activists masquerading as feminists (see the CoC mentioning "sexualized language") vs the rad-fems who are cooking a whole pile of wtf for the left's pet "feminists" on the topic of "but i love cock and babies and mothering and what precisely is wrong with that and no you chicks with dicks can't come to my moon party"
1577482;1480828174;mircea_popescu;da fuck is this folk botany placing it in asia ?
1577483;1480828179;mircea_popescu;eggplant is as iranian as apple.
1577484;1480828260;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes even that is two different heads attached to an improbable ettin. there's the slut-feminists, who love the cock and want to basically be the slaves of men they choose ; and the lesbian-feminists (usually abused teens that never got over it) that hate the cock and don't want cocks to exist but insist on stuffing their vagina with you know, rubber dolphins and etc.
1577485;1480828276;BingoBoingo;Why is Apple pie American when Apples are other?
1577486;1480828311;mircea_popescu;then there's the group that thinks procreation === driving to work ; and the mommy blogger types. then there's...
1577487;1480828320;mircea_popescu;more fault lines than wrinkles on susan sarandon's ass.
1577488;1480828378;BingoBoingo;The feminist divisions also serve as useful sorting fabric for how beta is your male feminist.
1577489;1480828397;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : the "complete record" of an unicode symbol is... 102 entries. most of which are boolean, and most of which are entirely haphazard randomness such as "soft dotted ?" and "expands on NFD" etc.
1577490;1480828435;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: what means "procreation === driving to work" ?
1577491;1480828445;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo male "feminist" seems to be without exception fat dork trying to value signal, either because stuck in friend zone or because stuck in forever alone.
1577492;1480828465;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes as opposed to bycicling, because car pooling  is not enough. omygerd you are killing the planet and dolphins.
1577493;1480828485;mircea_popescu;or wait, the dolphins are no longer fashionable i guess ? what is it now, whales ? or too shitlordy ?
1577494;1480828488;ben_vulpes;ah i see
1577495;1480828498;ben_vulpes;dolphins are rapists, can't be cool.
1577496;1480828508;ben_vulpes;also 'men'
1577497;1480828539;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Sure, but how they react to different camps can signal whether they are fat aspie ideologue or pliable 4evar-alone lashing out for social approval
1577498;1480828540;mircea_popescu;actually dolphins seem to be the #1 zoophiliac fantasy in females.
1577499;1480828542;ben_vulpes;whales still satisfy the need to help without the time-reactivity that would show results of 'helping'
1577500;1480828559;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: tastes great with "i just want to be a mermaid"
1577501;1480828562;mircea_popescu;myeah, that's pretty much the selection criteria.
1577502;1480828605;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i suspect it's more of the same "i want to want something i can't get because i want to want". horses and dogs more accessible, but horses are very much a showoff thing and dogs well... the afficionados tend to keep it quiet and get rammed often.
1577503;1480828639;BingoBoingo;http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/officials-fear-oakland-dance-party-toll-could-reach/article_599e86f8-53fb-5719-b455-da92edc9db87.html << "Officials said people either escaped from the cluttered building or died inside, where the only way down from the second story was via a stairwell constructed entirely of wooden pallets."
1577504;1480828662;BingoBoingo;^ lol at hipster derps artisticly thumbing nose at fire code
1577505;1480828668;ben_vulpes;the wanting to /be/ a horse only sticks until girly figures out what kind of 1500 cc vibrator her parents strap her to after school
1577506;1480828680;mircea_popescu;dude, isn't 40 the kil lcount of that florida gay club dude ?
1577507;1480828694;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Nah, 10 short of florida dude
1577508;1480828708;mircea_popescu;did the bolice shoot grenades at the thing ?
1577509;1480828778;ben_vulpes;los bomberos!
1577510;1480828815;BingoBoingo;Nah, seems to just be shanty town built shoddily inside warehouse. Caught fire as expedient housing tends to.
1577511;1480828834;BingoBoingo;But because pretentious thing called "artists studios" and not "indoor slum"
1577512;1480828857;BingoBoingo;"reclaimed wood" not "trash"
1577513;1480828945;mircea_popescu;the whole "downshifting" subculture is headed for a serious collision with the bureaucratic tradition. from the etsy "textile creator" and "vintage" "reclaimer" all the way to lazy bums generally there's this entire "we don't need no exit paths wtf are fire extinguishers 50 to the room is good man because we can't just walk up to a girl and tell her to strip and dance". serious fire hazard to say the least.
1577514;1480828992;mircea_popescu;i dunno if you've seen how the "aware", couch-surfing, backpacking, burning-manning redditard lives, but it is most reminescent of the warsaw ghetto cca 1916.
1577515;1480829015;mircea_popescu;hence all the lice syphilis etcetera.
1577516;1480829066;BingoBoingo;AHA, either that or they form "nuclear" family in suburban house populated by "family" of 5 unrealted dudes.
1577517;1480829095;BingoBoingo;Because apartments are expensive or some shit.
1577518;1480829109;mircea_popescu;except the suburban houses keep getting torn down to make room for higher density rats' nests.
1577519;1480829154;BingoBoingo;Lots of regional variation there
1577520;1480829178;BingoBoingo;Suburban houses are frequently converted to rats nests by changing occupants
1577521;1480829222;mircea_popescu;in the end, through whatever means, they do the same thing, and the problem is slowly growing and getting noticed. just another one of the countless and uncountable ways in which the us becomes ungovernable for the usg.
1577522;1480829302;mircea_popescu;it's very strictly speaking a transfer of raw, unadulterated power from the bureaucrats to random anonymous gurus and other populist figures. that trump stole hillary's cake is one thing ; but that the ability of usg department to dictate discrete behaviour in regards to whatever topic is decaying because the ability of joe videoblogger's ability to dictate same is increasing... now that smarts.
1577523;1480829403;mircea_popescu;that the niggers won't listen to usg is one thing - they get the TB treatment (body reaction to koch's bacile is to build walls, literally of calcar, around bacile ghettos in the lungs). who cares, 10% of the pop and concentrated in the poor south / poor urban areas. but by now the hippies don't listen either ? young whites ? that's becoming dangerous.
1577524;1480829442;mircea_popescu;and the whole scam of "well they will listen if we run in front of them and try to guess which way they're headed and pretend to be pointing exactly that way ourselfes first so there nyah!" only goes so far. eventually they start going really stupid ways, such as.
1577525;1480829444;BingoBoingo;Truly a great time to be alive.
1577526;1480829966;mircea_popescu;http://www.niquette.com/books/sophmag/bourke.htm << for the engine-vs-thermodynamics afficionados. you surely heard of the famous bourke engine (2 two-stokes placed in a cross, with a double scottish yoke driving the shaft).
1577527;1480830128;mircea_popescu;supposedly 3.3 hp/lb/hr, which translated from the idiotic idiotarian units would be over 50% efficiency.
1577528;1480830485;mircea_popescu;(to properly math 3.3*745.7 = 2460.81 watts of work for 47 * 10**6 / 2.20462 / 3600 = 5921.90742874 watts of burned off fuel. that's 41.5% which is still pretty remarkable, around the upper bound for a large 4stroke.)
1577529;1480831190;BingoBoingo;That's a lot of engine fart
1577530;1480831421;mircea_popescu;imagine, two lawn mowers in one.
1577531;1480831515;BingoBoingo;most contemporary lawn mowers have moved on to 4-cycles. 2-cyle however dominates the more noble string trimmer.
1577532;1480831531;mircea_popescu;mine were electrics.
1577533;1480831667;BingoBoingo;A pragmatic choice.
1577534;1480831729;mircea_popescu;the odd truth is that electric engines are much better at small and high loads. the combustion engine has it's niche, but it's strictly car sized.
1577535;1480831749;mircea_popescu;which is why diesel-electric trains still go to this day.
1577536;1480831766;mircea_popescu;or why diesel subs still use electric engines to power the shaft.
1577537;1480831850;BingoBoingo;This is very true. The lawn niche where electric consistently still loses to gas is blowers and blowers lose to strong back and a rake.
1577538;1480831897;BingoBoingo;Except where blower is reversible for vacuuming and chewing debris where electric wins again.
1577539;1480832125;mircea_popescu;blowers are the most fucking retarded nontool, above even kitchen robots. (which no, aren't "work saving", competent woman beats it out of water in all domestic cases).
1577540;1480832149;mircea_popescu;ever seen one of those tiny ballot making sucker things ? get your leaves packaged ready to go into compost.
1577541;1480832178;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/04/bitcoin-year-in-review-2016/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Bitcoin Year-In-Review 2016.
1577542;1480832186;pete_dushenski;^as requested
1577543;1480832271;pete_dushenski;and don't even get me started on blowers. they're worse than scooty puffs as far as motorised sensitory offenses.
1577544;1480832276;BingoBoingo;Yeah. On hard surfaces broom wins. On turf rake wins.
1577545;1480832291;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Blowers are great for stotting
1577546;1480832340;pete_dushenski;i've even been using a broom on the light dustings of snow we've been graced with this fall. big fan for the drier, powdier varietals of the flakey stuff.
1577547;1480832350;BingoBoingo;ANd they are not sensory offenses. They are sensory aggression. They are a challenge to all who hear their roar.
1577548;1480832360;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: stotting... to your boss.
1577549;1480832371;pete_dushenski;be that your wife or your cheque signer.
1577550;1480832406;pete_dushenski;LOOK HOW BUSEE AND IMPOTENT I AMM
1577551;1480832406;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Nah, to the neighbors. You are daring them to MAKE you quiet that shit down.
1577552;1480832459;pete_dushenski;i'd argue that blowers are slave 'empowerment' tools and little else besides.
1577553;1480832470;BingoBoingo;And yes, this means you invite the neighborhood to beat you down if you can't back up your blower's roar.
1577554;1480832526;pete_dushenski;like all 'empowering' devices. they do ~jack shit but they FEEL phenomenal for the user. at least that's my impression. god help me if i ever find myself using a blower first-hand.
1577555;1480832574;pete_dushenski;canadians are too nice and middle class to even SAY they object to blowers. so... they persist.
1577556;1480832597;pete_dushenski;btw mega-logs yesterday, still hammering my way through trilema commentary ;)
1577557;1480832623;*;BingoBoingo also rereading yesterday's logs.
1577558;1480832733;pete_dushenski;poor dpb is right. that attack dog side of trinque is sumtin fierce! fun to see.
1577559;1480832910;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: caught the 'commie is someone who doesn't drive a v8' reference! 'grand tour' was finally released in canada and i caught up this weekend. skipped most of ep2 but had a fair few chuckles throughout 1&2.
1577560;1480833422;pete_dushenski;and i gotta agree that v8 is defo the king. the queen and prince would be i6 and v12, just not sure the orde tbh. but these are the most readily encountered configurations that are inherently balanced, which results in smoother firing sequences and less vibration. i4 and v6, which are found in >90% of new cars sold. v8 is only ~5% of new cars (trucks obv. have much higher uptake of larger engines).
1577561;1480833442;pete_dushenski;order*
1577562;1480833642;BingoBoingo;brb, sleep
1577563;1480839231;ben_vulpes;i figured you might catch that and find it amusing, pete_dushenski
1577564;1480839253;ben_vulpes;same goes for mircea_popescu and the very very long depreciation schedule
1577565;1480839262;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Zoq56/?raw=true
1577566;1480851998;jurov;ben_vulpes what is that? You were dumping /dev/random for 48 days straight and got only 8MB data?
1577567;1480852011;jurov;When dieharder has to rewind them so many times, obv it finds some problems
1577568;1480853773;shinohai;https://twitter.com/ViaBTC/status/805382562738831361   <<< win
1577569;1480855313;mats;http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-one-understanding-ubers-bleak-operating-economics.html
1577570;1480857175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EA5A9828E1C326E8CC605CF3D81E142FB9863AF84611F2A1AB48FC003BE28B13 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1096...3263 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.7.213 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.7.213 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1577571;1480857715;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D955A92671E71EA28DD53171706FE70942E621B3E67241F46FDD460A496E2E6B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1096...3263 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.57 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.57 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1577572;1480857715;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EA5A9828E1C326E8CC605CF3D81E142FB9863AF84611F2A1AB48FC003BE28B13 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1096...3263 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.7.213 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.7.213 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1577573;1480857877;shinohai;Viva Mexico!
1577574;1480859964;BingoBoingo;http://oglaf.com/apocrypha/
1577575;1480861436;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/memoranda-and-shit-like-1800s-high-diplomacy/ << Trilema - Memoranda and shit, like 1800s high diplomacy!
1577576;1480869193;thestringpuller;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577543 << that's because scooty puff jr. sucks. try scooty puff senior.
1577577;1480869193;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 06:17 pete_dushenski: and don't even get me started on blowers. they're worse than scooty puffs as far as motorised sensitory offenses.
1577578;1480869417;thestringpuller;!~later tell pete_dushenski shit. first you get circle of life stuck in my head, now i'll be watching the why of fry...
1577579;1480869417;jhvh1;thestringpuller: The operation succeeded.
1577580;1480869434;thestringpuller;pl0x hack me some moar.
1577581;1480869495;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577480 << i leled some more this morn.
1577582;1480869495;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 05:07 ben_vulpes: heh, today i learned the unitards are so fully vested in the anti-sex brigade that U+1F346 or 🍆if my client doesn't mangle it, goes by the name of /aubergine/
1577583;1480869505;mircea_popescu;log prints "�if" fwiw.
1577584;1480869519;mircea_popescu;i think a111 mangles the log read though.
1577585;1480869528;mircea_popescu;(ie, it's �if on website)
1577586;1480869760;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577542 << wow check out the quick turnaround. year's not even done yo! i was making noises in advance, ben_vulpes style.
1577587;1480869760;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 06:16 pete_dushenski: ^as requested
1577588;1480869888;mircea_popescu;hey this is some pretty epic shit. anything missing ?
1577589;1480870358;pete_dushenski;open for comments or additions :D
1577590;1480870445;pete_dushenski;pretty sure i pumped out 2014 y-i-r in late november so dec 3 ain't so bad.
1577591;1480870455;pete_dushenski;thestringpuller: lel
1577592;1480870647;pete_dushenski;just sold the is300 this morning on its first showing and fifth day on sale, have an appt to rent out a condo shortly here. looking to go 2 for 2 on the day. abc baby!
1577593;1480870983;phf;🍆
1577594;1480870998;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577593
1577595;1480870998;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 17:03 phf: 🍆
1577596;1480871028;phf;i'll go with "if my client doesn't mangle it" part
1577597;1480871241;mircea_popescu;lol
1577598;1480871317;mircea_popescu;phf there seem to be 3 layers of manglizing. yours above i saw both as a square with numbers, so i suspect your irc client fucks it up ; mine above is fucked up differently (looks like byte-interpreted rather than unicode) and then the scarfer/www displayer prints them out correctly but a111 reads them eggog'd.
1577599;1480871321;shinohai;🐦
1577600;1480871396;shinohai;Mine doesn't show them in regular weechat, but the webclient attached to it does b/c js
1577601;1480871432;mircea_popescu;this self-licking icecream cone has the capacity to keep coders entertained for multiple lifetimes.
1577602;1480871435;phf;mircea_popescu: you see above as square with numbers because that's a unicode convention for missing font symbol
1577603;1480871443;mircea_popescu;yes.
1577604;1480871497;phf;but log never the less interprets, stores and passes through correct unicode
1577605;1480871538;mircea_popescu;in the case you tested, yes. in the case i tested, the log seems to, judging by the www part, but the bot quoting in chan doesn't, judging by the transform. like :
1577606;1480871547;mircea_popescu;ðŸ
1577607;1480871551;shinohai;what about this retardedness ....
1577608;1480871558;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577606
1577609;1480871558;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 17:12 mircea_popescu: ðŸ
1577610;1480871560;mircea_popescu;see ?
1577611;1480871616;mircea_popescu;ðŸ vs ðŸ
1577612;1480871618;phf;this happens because of the often discussed latin-1 fallback. "by convention" irc lines are interpreted as "utf-8 and if that fails latin-1"
1577613;1480871635;mircea_popescu;but it happens to a111 and not to me :)
1577614;1480871716;phf;well, a111 takes a pill against the convention. otherwise you get the mangled lines in log rendering for all the latin-1 posted content
1577615;1480871733;shinohai;https://twitter.com/JihadWu/status/805245795305828352   xD
1577616;1480871736;mircea_popescu;ok, time for screenshots.
1577617;1480871949;phf;the log website ~and the bot~ render everything as unicode, because you can't mix multiple encodings in rendering. before rendering a decision needs to be made about the validity of original content. the validity check is "if this is not valid utf-8, then assume it's latin-1, in which case take latin-1 string and encode it as utf-8"
1577618;1480871953;mircea_popescu;phf http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/hurr.png
1577619;1480872049;mircea_popescu;so now, you're telling me the XY vs XZ line happens because... i pass latin-1 ? then why is Z there.
1577620;1480872146;phf;what was the original byte sequence you sent?
1577621;1480872159;phf;(in hex)
1577622;1480872187;mircea_popescu;this all started because ben_vulpes sent unicode for /augergine/ which was displayed differently by btcbase.org and a111 in channel.
1577623;1480872206;mircea_popescu;i mean /aubergine/* ; U+1F346
1577624;1480872265;phf;sure, and that works. sending utf-8 byte sequence for u+1f346 is correctly preserved through (which is also the case for all the other unicode that's being sent, like thumbs up)
1577625;1480872325;mircea_popescu;except it isnt : the website shows  ðŸ�†if whereas a111 says  🍆. these two will appear the same in the btcbase log, but i trust you see them different in terminal ?
1577626;1480872381;phf;well, it isn't in a sense that ben_vulpes sent a sequence of bytes that can't be parsed as valid utf-8
1577627;1480872424;mircea_popescu;consider http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22%C3%B0%C2%9F%C2%8D%C2%86%22 vs http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22%C3%B0%C5%B8%EF%BF%BD%E2%80%A0%22
1577628;1480872426;phf;what a111 should say should be identical to what the website says though, let me check
1577629;1480872429;mircea_popescu;and now we have the whole story.
1577630;1480872441;mircea_popescu;first is first, 2nd is 2nd.
1577631;1480872464;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577480
1577632;1480872464;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 05:07 ben_vulpes: heh, today i learned the unitards are so fully vested in the anti-sex brigade that U+1F346 or 🍆if my client doesn't mangle it, goes by the name of /aubergine/
1577633;1480872480;mircea_popescu;c3b0 c29f c28d c286 becomes c3b0 c5b8 efbf bde2 80a0
1577634;1480872525;mircea_popescu;not the right bytes, not even the right byte count, and now i suspect this is enough for priviledge escalation in a111 or any other item which uses the same unicode libs.
1577635;1480874315;phf;i can't actually find anywhere where website is ~producing~ that second sequence (besides your own lines)
1577636;1480874381;mircea_popescu;a111 is producing them, not the website.
1577637;1480874435;phf;a111 is producing the first sequence on the wire
1577638;1480874449;mircea_popescu;let's see. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577480
1577639;1480874449;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 05:07 ben_vulpes: heh, today i learned the unitards are so fully vested in the anti-sex brigade that U+1F346 or 🍆if my client doesn't mangle it, goes by the name of /aubergine/
1577640;1480874503;mircea_popescu;it just said (in part) : U+1F346 or C3B0C29FC28DC286if
1577641;1480874572;phf;right that's the first sequence in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577633
1577642;1480874572;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 17:28 mircea_popescu: c3b0 c29f c28d c286 becomes c3b0 c5b8 efbf bde2 80a0
1577643;1480874592;mircea_popescu;it was expected to say (in part) : U+1F346 or C3B0C5B8EFBFBDE280A0if
1577644;1480874611;mircea_popescu;which is what btcbase.org prints.
1577645;1480874646;phf;well, that's what i'm saying is that i can't find the second ("expected to say") sequence anywhere on btcbase
1577646;1480874679;mircea_popescu;uh.
1577647;1480874765;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes: heh, today i learned the unitards are so fully vested in the anti-sex brigade that U+1F346 or &#xF0;&#x9F;&#x8D;&#x86;if my client doesn&#039;t mangle it << pasted from page source of the log
1577648;1480874792;mircea_popescu;my... browser is crazy ?
1577649;1480874957;mircea_popescu;U+1F346 or &#38;#xF0;&#38;#x9F;&#38;#x8D;&#38;#x86;if << pasted from... archive.is version of btcbase log
1577650;1480875160;mircea_popescu;yet curl binary gets it as c3 b0 c5 b8-c2 8d e2 80-a0
1577651;1480875249;phf;from a log url? o_O
1577652;1480875760;phf;so apparently cl-who's escape-string which produces the &#xf0... bits simply takes character's char-code which in sbcl corresponds to character's unicode code point
1577653;1480875980;mircea_popescu;this is some of the craziest shit.
1577654;1480876005;mircea_popescu;mircea_popescu</a>: &#xF0;&#x9F; vs &#xF0;&#x178; << from your source.
1577655;1480876006;phf;and the original sequence that ben_vulpes sent ~can~ be parsed as valid utf-8, so it gets mapped to some code points and rendered a such.
1577656;1480876030;mircea_popescu;mircea_popescu</a>: except it isnt : the website shows  &#xF0;&#x178;&#xFFFD;&#x2020;if whereas a111 says  &#xF0;&#x9F;&#x8D;&#x86;. these two will appear the same in the btcbase log, but i trust you see them different in terminal ?
1577657;1480876057;phf;where does the website show the first sequence anywhere?
1577658;1480876066;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577625 <
1577659;1480876066;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 17:25 mircea_popescu: except it isnt : the website shows  ðŸ�†if whereas a111 says  🍆. these two will appear the same in the btcbase log, but i trust you see them different in terminal ?
1577660;1480876077;phf;mircea_popescu: but that was pasted by you!
1577661;1480876084;mircea_popescu;ok, not pasted by me :
1577662;1480876100;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes</a>: heh, today i learned the unitards are so fully vested in the anti-sex brigade that U+1F346 or &#xF0;&#x9F;&#x8D;&#x86;if my client doesn&#039;t mangle it
1577663;1480876115;mircea_popescu;oh the other one ?
1577664;1480876121;phf;the other one
1577665;1480876158;mircea_popescu;the other one only appears pasted by me. so apparently i have an issue whereby unicode transforms into bs.
1577666;1480876250;jurov;i think ben_vulpes' client magled it, i see all the aubergines fine, except his
1577667;1480876468;jurov;hexdump of my log (just fyi, does not mean my client did not massage it too):
1577668;1480876470;jurov; 6f 72 20 26 23 78 46 30  3b 26 23 78 39 46 3b 26  |or &#xF0;&#x9F;&|
1577669;1480876471;jurov; 23 78 38 44 3b 26 23 78  38 36 3b 69 66 20 6d 79  |#x8D;&#x86;if my|
1577670;1480876538;mircea_popescu; http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bOf6r/?raw=true vs http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Mg4qi/?raw=true
1577671;1480876593;mircea_popescu;so : for ~some reason~ my client reports a111 as saying " &#xF0;&#x178;&#xFFFD;&#x2020;" whereas the webpage reports it as saying "&#xF0;&#x9F;&#x8D;&#x86;"
1577672;1480876627;mircea_popescu;but my same client does NOT misreport OTHER instances of "&#xF0;&#x9F;&#x8D;&#x86;" as " &#xF0;&#x178;&#xFFFD;&#x2020;"  when they are ~not~ spoken by a111
1577673;1480876646;mircea_popescu;which is why the belief that a111 mangles something. because otherwise how is my irc client distinguishing ?
1577674;1480876691;mircea_popescu;but granted this is pretty fucking out there.
1577675;1480876744;jurov;does a111 keep as-came-from-wire copy of logs? i'd recommend to.
1577676;1480876955;mircea_popescu;just did a hexdump on the logfile. the relevant portion "or 🍆if" reads hexdump or 🍆if0000000 726f c320 c2b0 c29f c28d 6986 0066
1577677;1480876995;phf;yeah it does, but in this case the byte sequence is untouched, because the original byte sequence is valid utf-8. the disparity seems to come from the fact that a111 sends utf-8 sequence, where's website renders it as unicode code points.
1577678;1480877120;mircea_popescu;hm.
1577679;1480877133;mircea_popescu;other than "unicode is fucking evil" i have no moral from this wasted hour.
1577680;1480877330;jurov;so it boils down into conversion into &#x1F346; vs. &xF0;&xFD;...etc.. ?
1577681;1480877357;mircea_popescu;not exactly ;/
1577682;1480877427;jurov;🍆
1577683;1480877454;phf;nah, in the first case bot's sending raw bytes on the the wire (which are valid utf-8 for a bogus code point sequence), in the second case the raw bytes have been intrepreted as code points and are sent as html escape codes for code points.
1577684;1480877492;mircea_popescu;a111 log 🍆if 🍆if a111 ðŸ�†if site bv site ðŸ�†if
1577685;1480877583;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/uKKRo/?raw=true << definitive thing.
1577686;1480877612;mircea_popescu;i am persuaded phf is right : bot is sending raw bytes, log is displaying unicode points as escape codes.
1577687;1480877647;jurov;^ my aubergine came back as raw bytes f0 9f 8d 86 but in the html log it is &#x1F346;
1577688;1480877710;phf;for example in the original there's a byte sequence \xc3\xb0, it's a valid utf-8 for code point #240, which if it renders looks like `ð' and in html can be represented as &#xf0;
1577689;1480877726;mircea_popescu;yes.
1577690;1480877740;phf;jurov: right, becase 1F346 is http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f346/index.htm
1577691;1480877788;mircea_popescu;incidentally i'd say the arrangement as present is also the right thing. bot should send raw bytes ; wwwtron should send escape codes.
1577692;1480877849;*;jurov gives phf 🌭 🍺
1577693;1480877904;mircea_popescu;!~google 🌭
1577694;1480877906;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 🌭 Hot Dog Emoji - Emojipedia: <http://emojipedia.org/hot-dog/>; 🌭 Hot Dog Emoji (U+1F32D) - iEmoji.com: <http://www.iemoji.com/view/emoji/1827/food-drink/hot-dog>; 🌭 | hot dog (U+1F32D) @ Graphemica: <http://graphemica.com/%25F0%259F%258C%25AD>
1577695;1480877911;mircea_popescu;!~google 🍺
1577696;1480877912;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Unicode character inspector: 🍺 - Experimental apps by Tim Whitlock: <http://apps.timwhitlock.info/unicode/inspect%3Fs%3D%25F0%259F%258D%25BA>; 🍺 Beer Mug Emoji - Emojipedia: <http://emojipedia.org/beer-mug/>; 🍺 Beer Mug Emoji: <http://emojipedia.org/emoji/%25F0%259F%258D%25BA/>
1577697;1480877919;mircea_popescu;fucking korean.
1577698;1480885849;mircea_popescu;in other wikipedia-is-for-retards lolz,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USBKill
1577699;1480886399;shinohai;Lets just plug in this charger .... OH SHIT
1577700;1480886460;mats;http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/insider/in-china-eugenics-determines-who-plays-in-school-bands.html
1577701;1480886484;mats;what's with fucking americans and consistently misusing ww2-era phraseology
1577702;1480886539;mats;if it's not 'the alt right is made up of neo nazis' it's 'chinese people are implementing eugenics by selecting for clever and attractive children in band programs'
1577703;1480886549;mats;???
1577704;1480886602;mircea_popescu;what's with mats thinking random spamsites have anything to do with the world.
1577705;1480886616;mats;way to denigrate the suffering of tens of millions dead because you want to make an incendiary political statement
1577706;1480886654;mats;i'll shut up nao
1577707;1480889088;mircea_popescu;i think you can only shut up mao
1577708;1480889090;mircea_popescu;mwahahaha!
1577709;1480889517;mats;hei hei hei hei
1577710;1480892186;mats;asciilifeform: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/esp8266ex-wifi-chip-wireless-chip-esp8266_60442239876.html?s=p
1577711;1480892198;mats;i believe the 'ex' suffix is the chip, is that right?
1577712;1480894684;mats;oops, this is actually the one i was looking at https://m.alibaba.com/product/60555752827/ESP8266-ESP8266EX-Wifi-Chip-with-SDIO.html?spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.5.p7nmiv
1577713;1480894720;mats;('scuse the mobile site)
1577714;1480901134;phf;"skilled and talented chosen over ny times writers and editors, is this the beginning of fashism?"
1577715;1480904222;mircea_popescu;moar like the end of it.
1577716;1480904341;mircea_popescu;alternatively, "i think this is the beginning of a biutiful fashism" as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1GUcxSqyo
1577717;1480905050;BingoBoingo;The pete_dushenski anals of 2016 are detailed, but prolly missing something. 2016 seems to be banner year for republic.
1577718;1480907353;mircea_popescu;kinda been going like that, 2015 > 2014 then 2016 > 2015
1577719;1480909869;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-441925.txt
1577720;1480912599;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/renzi-resigns-as-voters-reject-his-agenda-and-tell-brussels-vaffanculo-suggesting-future-italeave/ << Qntra - Renzi Resigns As Voters Reject His Agenda And Tell Brussels "Vaffanculo" Suggesting Future #Italeave
1577721;1480918033;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: seen any of the hbo show 'westworld'?
1577722;1480937190;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes have not.
1577723;1480937204;mircea_popescu;i've watched about a half hour of tv total since seinfeld.
1577724;1480937296;mircea_popescu;why the fuck is va' fa'n culo spelled as one word with a double f ? cosi fan' tutte is not cosiffantutte ?
1577725;1480939952;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/тошно/#comment-117990 << in commentary to the recent and inexplicable fire in sf.
1577726;1480942248;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-441992.txt
1577727;1480942351;mircea_popescu;in other news/lulz, http://www.lincolnks.org/Housing.html << apparently a lot of places in kansas and around kansas that have this free housing plots giveaway thing
1577728;1480944138;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F764EC5736FA3782A599FBBAE8F5867BD66D04EED4A2579F7282CE6453F80839 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.211.231.129 (ssh-rsa key from 195.211.231.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
1577729;1480946004;mircea_popescu;!!up walter__
1577730;1480946004;deedbot;walter__ voiced for 30 minutes.
1577731;1480946082;walter__;phf, what's special about 2005 ThinkPads?
1577732;1480946121;mircea_popescu;!#s thinkpad
1577733;1480946121;a111;83 results for "thinkpad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thinkpad
1577734;1480946130;mircea_popescu;^ subject of some discussion, he didn't come up with it.
1577735;1480946151;walter__;reading logs I found some mentions of exactly "2005" thinkpads but cannot see why
1577736;1480946160;walter__;those are X32 and X41 according to thinkwiki
1577737;1480946536;mircea_popescu;walter__ the 2005 was just a reference to something i mentioned, iirc in a discussion with asciilifeform ; it's not an exact date (fwiw i use ts etc). but the idea is - a laptop which runs with no binaries whatsoever.
1577738;1480946561;mircea_popescu;which turns out to be a much higher bar than the general population realises, and experimentally reduces to the various thinkpads of the end of ibm / start of lenovo era.
1577739;1480946579;mircea_popescu;famously rms claims to have been using one ; which claim was meanwhile experimentally falsified here.
1577740;1480946622;walter__;if it's about Libreboot then the "last one" is X200 of 2008
1577741;1480946651;walter__;although according to asciilifeform Libreboot can burn the machine
1577742;1480946660;mircea_popescu;libreboot dun really work as advertised
1577743;1480946683;mircea_popescu;anyway, that's what "2005" means in this context, "when lenovo got the brand".
1577744;1480946702;walter__;makes sense, thanks
1577745;1480946705;mircea_popescu;np.
1577746;1480946720;walter__;my other guess was the idea was to hunt the last machine with a CPU without microcode updates
1577747;1480946732;walter__;but that would be going even further back in history
1577748;1480946738;mircea_popescu;those were probably pre-2000
1577749;1480946738;mircea_popescu;aha
1577750;1480946748;walter__;pre-2000, exactly
1577751;1480946806;walter__;considering the horrible situation with x86 laptops I wonder if Asus C201 (again from the Libreboot compatibility list) is "the cure"
1577752;1480946809;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B674E2825B44E246236C59D5355D436337B35CD9F2730E1F37B0EBFF0962F8B4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.211.228.84 (ssh-rsa key from 195.211.228.84 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
1577753;1480946809;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F764EC5736FA3782A599FBBAE8F5867BD66D04EED4A2579F7282CE6453F80839 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.211.231.129 (ssh-rsa key from 195.211.231.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
1577754;1480946825;mircea_popescu;feel free to do some investigative work and report
1577755;1480946835;mircea_popescu;in which vein, register a key first.
1577756;1480946917;walter__;PGP? Where does one 'register'?
1577757;1480946939;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-27#1573643 << working example
1577758;1480946939;a111;Logged on 2016-11-27 23:41 DontCryRebuy: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Z9EM8/?raw=true
1577759;1480946966;mircea_popescu;may want to de-__ your name first if you actually own "walter"
1577760;1480947056;walter__;I don't. Too late to freenode short names party
1577761;1480947067;mircea_popescu;no biggy.
1577762;1480947845;mircea_popescu;also in which vein, see the discussion re busybox and the complete trb machine tmsr created for deployment on pogos (and the whole discussion with pogos) ; also perhaps of interest the failure to create a useful gentoo and so forth.
1577763;1480947868;mircea_popescu;we really should systematize the "box verification" thing, with a view to actually certify hardware configurations.
1577764;1480947998;mircea_popescu;afaik the pogo is to date the only tmsr-certified digital computer.
1577765;1480948127;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> why the fuck is va' fa'n culo spelled as one word with a double f ? cosi fan' tutte is not cosiffantutte ? << ty fxd
1577766;1480948137;mircea_popescu;no no, it is CORRECTLY spelled with double f
1577767;1480948142;mircea_popescu;i just don't grasp the logic is all.
1577768;1480948298;BingoBoingo;copied fro Italian populist propaganda
1577769;1480948414;BingoBoingo;5 star movement
1577770;1480949307;mircea_popescu;!!up walter
1577771;1480949307;deedbot;walter voiced for 30 minutes.
1577772;1480949351;BingoBoingo;As seen https://it-it.facebook.com/Vaffanculo-Movimento-Cinque-Stelle-168525813302445/
1577773;1480949361;walter;mindread :). Thanks for the links, I'll dig the logs for the topics
1577774;1480949381;mircea_popescu;check it out, you weren't late to the party after all ?
1577775;1480949401;mircea_popescu;anyway, register key, can then self-voice.
1577776;1480949416;walter;no, 'walter' is registered. I need to come up with a sane available nick
1577777;1480949434;mircea_popescu;normally freenote boots you off others' names.
1577778;1480949441;mircea_popescu;i guess it must not have nick enforcing turned on
1577779;1480949442;walter;and then somehow to generate a key _properly_
1577780;1480949470;BingoBoingo;Freenode isn't deterministic enough to have a "normal" way of doing anything.
1577781;1480949484;mircea_popescu;down with the patriarchy.
1577782;1480949506;BingoBoingo;Up with the CasualBoner-Archy
1577783;1480949549;BingoBoingo;More fathering, less fatherhood!
1577784;1480949677;mircea_popescu;in which vein, /me watched a half hour of something last night, because i tried to do a christina applegate retrospective. holy shit that girl has been in all the shitty snl derivative crap. how do these idiots even live, how do they get out of bed ? that ben affleck imbecile, he's like baudoinia, blackening the walls of anywhere alcohol is customarily found. unfunny as cancer, stupid as broken shoelaces, ubiquitous as a sac
1577785;1480949677;mircea_popescu;fungus.
1577786;1480949753;mircea_popescu;anyway, this thing had drew barrymore playing a 31yo intern (who, of course, was also a stanford graduate, and worshipped the new york SENTINEL! under the pretense that the new york times is you know, more than http://trilema.com/2016/тошно/#comment-119992 ).
1577787;1480949851;mircea_popescu;total fucking casual-boner-archy that thing, and utterly unwatchable. i used to mock romanians a decade ago as "o populatie cu mize mici" ie, a population with low stakes. but lawds have mercy, the hopes, aspirations, projects and projections of the contemporaneous ustard (stanford grad & waitress-journaho) barely cover a used bottlecap.
1577788;1480949996;mircea_popescu;(alf would have liked this one, the rats live so closely packed they have cultural constructs re intramural participation in sexual congress - the woman is offended but subverts it as normalcy. OF FUCKING COURSE the "next door neighbour" would play music to go with our intimate discussions. this is soviet america and the walls are thin!)
1577789;1480950033;BingoBoingo;lol
1577790;1480950072;BingoBoingo;Brb, cutting wood
1577791;1480950150;*;asciilifeform reads uniturd thread, wtf, barfamatic
1577792;1480950162;asciilifeform;i can't believe you folx wasted whole hour on that
1577793;1480950170;mircea_popescu;well after wasting a coupla hours off everyone, it finally went away.
1577794;1480950190;asciilifeform;in other noose,
1577795;1480950196;asciilifeform;[10649280.876256] tty_check_change: tty->pgrp == NULL!
1577796;1480950197;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform at first it looked like possibly a stack smash somewhere in there.
1577797;1480950207;asciilifeform;last time had this line on jan. 16th
1577798;1480950223;asciilifeform;ahahaha that would be mighty lulzy.
1577799;1480950244;mircea_popescu;ikr?
1577800;1480950353;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if you care hurley removed that cca 2015.
1577801;1480950382;mircea_popescu;[PATCH 1/3] tty: Combine SIGTTOU/SIGTTIN handling
1577802;1480950420;*;asciilifeform to no one's great surprise, i imagine, has a somewhat dr.mengele kernel
1577803;1480950596;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577731 << 1) they boot with 'linuxbios' sans blobs 2) no intel ME or other fritzchip
1577804;1480950596;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 13:54 walter__: phf, what's special about 2005 ThinkPads?
1577805;1480950646;asciilifeform;i will also add that buildable source code for circa-2005 (and possibly slightly later) 'ami'-brand bios actually leaked.
1577806;1480950669;walter;wow
1577807;1480950692;mircea_popescu;aha.
1577808;1480950704;walter;where can I get it?
1577809;1480950714;asciilifeform;walter: junkyard
1577810;1480950724;walter;I mean the leaked bios source
1577811;1480950747;asciilifeform;hmm...
1577812;1480950755;mircea_popescu;iirc it was the uefi signing key that leaked
1577813;1480950761;mircea_popescu;as in, you can replace their fw with your own
1577814;1480950789;mircea_popescu;o no nm, whole orchestra :
1577815;1480950809;mircea_popescu;http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.jetway.com.tw
1577816;1480950810;mircea_popescu;http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.jetway.com.tw/CODE/
1577817;1480950869;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ami.rar
1577818;1480950937;mircea_popescu;even better.
1577819;1480951001;asciilifeform;sha512 : d0dab859fed77c75087fc0ad012a521e81db59331fcea98373784f2be6b6aefdad2672735dd89a24c01a649ce8dd4e57097da2d96489fa9c1840795dd7374b41
1577820;1480951020;asciilifeform;13337w4r3z!111
1577821;1480951113;mircea_popescu;anyway ; what i linked above is a period scrape of the original website (the way this leak worked was the whole pile was found on a poorly secured taiwan server of jetway) ; the mmnt.net site generally has all sorts of useful things.
1577822;1480951136;asciilifeform;!!up walter
1577823;1480951136;deedbot;walter voiced for 30 minutes.
1577824;1480951137;walter;amazing
1577825;1480951180;walter;if the source was distributed to various manufacturers then there are so many possible leak channels
1577826;1480951180;mircea_popescu;which gives me the idea to email aygi.
1577827;1480951197;asciilifeform;who's that
1577828;1480951242;mircea_popescu;guy running the mmnt thing
1577829;1480951293;mircea_popescu;russki iirc.
1577830;1480951300;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577762 << gentoo is in the sad place where it is because of 'portage' (the thing that attempts to automagically download tarballs of source and build deps in the correct order) , and the decay of the entire ecosystem of buildables, which isn't strictly to do with gentoo per se
1577831;1480951300;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 14:24 mircea_popescu: also in which vein, see the discussion re busybox and the complete trb machine tmsr created for deployment on pogos (and the whole discussion with pogos) ; also perhaps of interest the failure to create a useful gentoo and so forth.
1577832;1480951330;asciilifeform;if you remove 'portage', you have, magic!111, working gentoo. but it is then ~same as just generic linux a la my pogo build.
1577833;1480951333;asciilifeform;and not gentoo at all.
1577834;1480951385;asciilifeform;it is not, for example, the fault of gentoo authors, that rms became a living mushroom and lifted not one finger to keep emacs from demanding dbus
1577835;1480951406;walter;by 'linuxbios' sans blobs you mean Libreboot or something else?
1577836;1480951421;mircea_popescu;no, linuxbios, it's a thing.
1577837;1480951436;asciilifeform;walter: it is known as 'coreboot' today
1577838;1480951443;mircea_popescu;aha.
1577839;1480951456;asciilifeform;walter: 'libreboot' was/is a fork where some parasite stole and rebranded the thing
1577840;1480951468;mircea_popescu;though with the whole "transsexual" derpage, i dunno how much anyone cares.
1577841;1480951469;mircea_popescu;right.
1577842;1480951520;asciilifeform;coreboot, last i saw, largely consists of some sad folks sitting and being sad, because it works on 0 cpus presently sold, and on account of quite deliberate sabotage by intel and amd.
1577843;1480951524;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://www.mmnt.ru/ << ftp indexer/searcher. not entirely useless.
1577844;1480951533;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, like the old finnish ftp search
1577845;1480951536;mircea_popescu;yes.
1577846;1480951551;asciilifeform;you can find surprising things even today by scanning for ftp
1577847;1480951554;mircea_popescu;actually from the period also, iirc.
1577848;1480951574;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you're telling me ? i was in the phuctor team that found weak ssh keys back in my youth!
1577849;1480951581;mircea_popescu;i'll have you know, mr.!
1577850;1480951592;asciilifeform;lol aha!
1577851;1480951605;mircea_popescu;kids today i swear.
1577852;1480951751;mircea_popescu;http://www.cxemateka.ru/ << o look, there's also a schematics dump
1577853;1480951759;mircea_popescu;may want to mirror.
1577854;1480951812;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577731 << also 2005 (if you search the logs knowing what you're looking for) is a stand in for "decade of tail end of somewhat sane computing". linux on desktop hasn't wrecked the ecosystem yet, apple is selling unix boxes (and not phones), ibm is selling professional laptops, no reddit, no smartphone culture, no facebook, etc.
1577855;1480951812;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 13:54 walter__: phf, what's special about 2005 ThinkPads?
1577856;1480951821;mircea_popescu;aha.
1577857;1480951976;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cxemateka seems to host a bunch of winblowz driver rubbish ?
1577858;1480951978;asciilifeform;i see 0 schematics
1577859;1480952077;mircea_popescu;you're right huh. i guess my russian is a little... approximative.
1577860;1480952082;walter;cannot download anything from http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.jetway.com.tw/CODE/ because it links to the original FTP server
1577861;1480952085;phf;was also sort of a lul after adjustment and recovery from the eternal september, i.e. aol of '96 and yahoo of '99. i think we are now in the aftermath of the second wave of the eternal september
1577862;1480952147;asciilifeform;'3rd wave' will be when they get subsaharan africa on the net via 'google translate', perhaps
1577863;1480952148;phf;which happened when people born close or on 1990 became sufficiently aware to start wrecking havoc around 2015 or so, outside of their 2005 ghettos (like myspace, etc.)
1577864;1480952150;asciilifeform;or farm animals.
1577865;1480952158;mircea_popescu;meh. this whole thing looks like it was gutted meanwhile.
1577866;1480952160;mircea_popescu;dude...
1577867;1480952177;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik this thing was exactly like finnish ftp search
1577868;1480952183;asciilifeform;i.e. it did not cache files, just linked
1577869;1480952186;mircea_popescu;fucking bullshit.
1577870;1480952203;asciilifeform;(caching was cost-prohibitive)
1577871;1480952212;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am pretty sure that the one actually had cache and the other had more than a dozen items last i looked. but that was a while ago.
1577872;1480952222;mircea_popescu;anyway, sorry about it, what can i say.
1577873;1480952224;asciilifeform;if there was such a thing, asciilifeform never saw it
1577874;1480952241;asciilifeform;but lol, why didja think i posted the ami.rar.
1577875;1480952245;asciilifeform;it's the whole thing iirc.
1577876;1480952282;walter;btw thanks for the ami.rar. The hash matches, although it hangs my unpacker. Looking.
1577877;1480952300;mircea_popescu;also could we use gz like sane people and wtf is this rar bs.
1577878;1480952308;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was as-found.
1577879;1480952313;mircea_popescu;yes i know scene friendly, but rar was a fucking stupid idea even in oslo 1990.
1577880;1480952342;asciilifeform;for all i know, d00d specifically wants the attempted infector in that rar!!111
1577881;1480952384;mircea_popescu;heh
1577882;1480952409;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577727 << this is actually not uncommon in usa. the catch is that typically such 'freebies' come with encumberments.
1577883;1480952409;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 12:52 mircea_popescu: in other news/lulz, http://www.lincolnks.org/Housing.html << apparently a lot of places in kansas and around kansas that have this free housing plots giveaway thing
1577884;1480952430;walter;so what is 'coreboot' sans blobs, if not Libreboot? Any competing projects?
1577885;1480952442;asciilifeform;(can't sell before x years, can't resell for > 1.something * what you bought for, can't build >1 story, etc)
1577886;1480952459;mircea_popescu;honest toil and honest cunning.
1577887;1480952460;asciilifeform;walter: what is your kitchen sink minus last night's coffee grounds ? is it identical to mine ?
1577888;1480952520;walter;em.. sorry? A working kitchen sink?
1577889;1480952571;mircea_popescu;walter the scheme here proposed is that a project (linuxbios) which was useful on account of actually having drivers for extant hardware was killed by hardware maker conspiracy. on its now useless ruins, as it's dead, an idiot with a "sexual identity" political agenda tried to build a grassroot activism thing called libreboot ; and some unrelated packrats with a penchant for software try to build a cluttered warehouse called
1577890;1480952571;mircea_popescu;coreboot.
1577891;1480952580;mircea_popescu;none of the three items are functional for the stated reasons.
1577892;1480952641;asciilifeform;walter: afaik the last chip that worked 100% correctly on 'coreboot' was amd G-series 'APU'.
1577893;1480952674;asciilifeform;it is theoretically still in production, but every vendor i know of will attempt to bait-and-switch and spuriously substitute the 2015-and-post revision that will NOT.
1577894;1480952691;asciilifeform;see thread:
1577895;1480952694;asciilifeform;!#s apu2
1577896;1480952695;a111;16 results for "apu2", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=apu2
1577897;1480952759;asciilifeform;!#s gizmoboard
1577898;1480952760;a111;0 results for "gizmoboard", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gizmoboard
1577899;1480952762;asciilifeform;hm
1577900;1480952790;mircea_popescu;you want
1577901;1480952794;mircea_popescu;!#s "gizmo"
1577902;1480952795;a111;350 results for "\"gizmo\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22gizmo%22
1577903;1480952800;mircea_popescu;cuz "gizmo1" and bs.
1577904;1480952802;asciilifeform;partly, yes.
1577905;1480952821;mircea_popescu;aha.
1577906;1480952831;walter;thanks for explainig. So it's even worse than I thought.
1577907;1480952835;asciilifeform;anyway there were two and afaik exactly two makers of pc-compatible boards with the last, magical, amd g-series, and shipped full schematics.
1577908;1480952840;asciilifeform;'pcengines apu1'
1577909;1480952846;asciilifeform;and 'gizmo-board'
1577910;1480952853;asciilifeform;(forget who made the latter)
1577911;1480952868;walter;pcengines! Seen one box personally
1577912;1480952903;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's been 2.0'd meanwhile : http://www.gizmosphere.org/
1577913;1480952921;asciilifeform;apu2 also theoretically boots with coreboot (there is no, incidentally, any other kind of bios available for it ) but it has a fritz chip and you cannot switch it off
1577914;1480952941;mircea_popescu;is it localized ?
1577915;1480952943;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have that one in the room where i am now, it actually has the working cpu
1577916;1480952956;*;mircea_popescu would pay for an apu2 board to be destroyed if anyone wants to drill the fritz and report what happens.
1577917;1480952962;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what means 'localized' ? it's the usual nsa core on cpu die
1577918;1480952965;asciilifeform;!!up walter
1577919;1480952965;deedbot;walter voiced for 30 minutes.
1577920;1480952971;mircea_popescu;as in do you know where to drill
1577921;1480952983;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you'd have to drill with electron beam
1577922;1480952992;asciilifeform;and somehow put the top layer back on after that...
1577923;1480952999;mircea_popescu;meh.
1577924;1480953021;asciilifeform;vlsi fritzchipping ftw!1111
1577925;1480953021;mircea_popescu;incidentally, some sort of resonator "drill" bit for cpus would be good to have
1577926;1480953031;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is commercially available
1577927;1480953040;phf;acid?
1577928;1480953041;asciilifeform;!#s ion beam
1577929;1480953042;a111;18 results for "ion beam", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ion%20beam
1577930;1480953058;asciilifeform;they are used by well-funded reversers to do equiv. of 'cut this-here wire'
1577931;1480953067;phf;aah
1577932;1480953123;asciilifeform;and have been available for long enough that chip makers began, long ago, to bury 'interesting' wires under layers
1577933;1480953125;mircea_popescu;aha.
1577934;1480953157;asciilifeform;when 'moore's law' finally croaked, they switched to 'improvements' like this.
1577935;1480953179;mircea_popescu;yes but the laws of the universe guarantee this can not be done well.
1577936;1480953195;mircea_popescu;whether it can be done well enough is another matter of course.
1577937;1480953234;asciilifeform;depends what means 'done well enough'
1577938;1480953239;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1577939;1480953250;asciilifeform;if you want to reverse the chip, theoretically 10,000,001 units of same chip and a microtome, is enough
1577940;1480953270;mircea_popescu;no i mean, the "hiding" can't be done well.
1577941;1480953293;asciilifeform;the mechanism in question here isn't even hidden, we know the rsa pubkey
1577942;1480953297;asciilifeform;it is even in phuctor...
1577943;1480953307;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1577944;1480953664;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577712 << this is potentially neat
1577945;1480953664;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 23:38 mats: oops, this is actually the one i was looking at https://m.alibaba.com/product/60555752827/ESP8266-ESP8266EX-Wifi-Chip-with-SDIO.html?spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.5.p7nmiv
1577946;1480953672;asciilifeform;anyone here -- bought ?
1577947;1480953675;asciilifeform;mats ?
1577948;1480953777;walter;fchipsource@outlook.com looks promising
1577949;1480953855;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577566 << quite possibly his /dev/random is connected to keyboard noise etc.
1577950;1480953855;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 11:46 jurov: ben_vulpes what is that? You were dumping /dev/random for 48 days straight and got only 8MB data?
1577951;1480953862;asciilifeform;so -- mega-unsurprise
1577952;1480953898;asciilifeform;the folx who got 100MB/sec from /dev/random were the mac people, and it leads me to suspect that theirs is in fact == to /dev/urandom
1577953;1480953901;asciilifeform;if on hardware level
1577954;1480953935;asciilifeform;(iirc it is connected straight to intel's RDRAND)
1577955;1480954002;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577526 << iirc if you were to actually measure OUTPUT horsepower on the shaft, the performance is about that of a steam engine...
1577956;1480954002;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 05:39 mircea_popescu: http://www.niquette.com/books/sophmag/bourke.htm << for the engine-vs-thermodynamics afficionados. you surely heard of the famous bourke engine (2 two-stokes placed in a cross, with a double scottish yoke driving the shaft).
1577957;1480954017;asciilifeform;(and the thing vibrates and destroys anything you might mount it on)
1577958;1480954025;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha, linked for historical lulz. nice description of how that went.
1577959;1480954037;asciilifeform;it is rather like to say 'i will light match and convert energy of petrol to heat 100%)
1577960;1480954044;asciilifeform;^ that ain't an engine
1577961;1480954099;asciilifeform;i collect stories like this, incidentally, because it is the #1 occupational hazard of inventing -- to 'fall in love with idea' and end up a sad basketcase, pons&fleischmanning your way into the bottle
1577962;1480954193;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577534 << the petrol engine is not well impedance-matched with anything, even auto wheels on asphalt ! hence the 'hybrids' thing
1577963;1480954193;a111;Logged on 2016-12-04 06:08 mircea_popescu: the odd truth is that electric engines are much better at small and high loads. the combustion engine has it's niche, but it's strictly car sized.
1577964;1480954209;asciilifeform;(which are exactly 'diesel-electric train' and submarine, but in miniature)
1577965;1480954218;mircea_popescu;incidentally in physics calorimetry experiments are notorious for this "one crazy datapoint" presentation of experimental data ; so much so that ro unis taught defensive experimental physics skills on calorimetry.
1577966;1480954232;asciilifeform;aha.
1577967;1480954290;mircea_popescu;which illustrates the fundamental problem with "self taught" or otherwise ignorant practitioners - every single fucking kid with an undegraduate degree from ro would have told the idiots that "oh, calorimetry ? and you got an outlier ? lolzk."
1577968;1480954300;mircea_popescu;but they... they went to utah or w/e the fuck, and so never actually went to school,
1577969;1480954316;mircea_popescu;and so never actually got this passive "common trunk" "common sense" sort of knowledge about their chosen profession.
1577970;1480954325;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188842 << see also
1577971;1480954325;a111;Logged on 2015-07-05 23:53 asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end'
1577972;1480954333;mircea_popescu;yes.
1577973;1480954382;mircea_popescu;or in the original greek, ὦ νέοι, ~ἀλλὰ μάχεσθε~ παρ’ ἀλλήλοισι μένοντες,
1577974;1480954549;mircea_popescu;alliloisi fucking menontes, there's passive strength in the formation.
1577975;1480954608;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'engine crackpots' such as they are found today, typically have not even heard of such a thing as calorimeter, because it is not sold in 'home despot'
1577976;1480954617;asciilifeform;they measure with analogue amperemeter, etc.
1577977;1480954629;asciilifeform;and unfailingly produce 'OVERUNITY!!111' lulz
1577978;1480954632;mircea_popescu;the calorimeter incidentally is a fine illustration / symbol of science altogether.
1577979;1480956453;asciilifeform;in other lulz, very far away, 'Autodesk will stop the sale of perpetual licences of all its software on January 31st, 2017. The purchase of new licences by both new and existing customers will only be available by subscription after that date. ... Why is Autodesk transitioning to subscription licences? Subscription licences offer customers a lower entry price, greater choice of tools and the ability to pay-as-you-go. With its shift a
1577980;1480956453;asciilifeform;way from selling perpetual rights to use a specific version of software, Autodesk will continually innovate and improve products and supporting services that customers subscribe to, allowing access from multiple devices at any time, making them easier to deploy and manage, and reducing file compatibility issues.' ( http://damassets.autodesk.net/content/dam/autodesk/www/campaigns/mfg-perpetual/end-of-perpetual-customer-faqs.pdf )
1577981;1480956582;mircea_popescu;ie, autodesk is about to go bankrupt.
1577982;1480956588;asciilifeform;might already be
1577983;1480956595;asciilifeform;though no shortage of printolade
1577984;1480956612;asciilifeform;e.g., they bought (probably to annihilate) cadsoft, the maker of the ONE usable electronic cad proggy for linux
1577985;1480956638;mircea_popescu;linux whores are notoriously cheap.
1577986;1480956649;asciilifeform;(in case anyone 'missed the memo' : open sores cad is a sad, sad joke. and no, i dun care if this does not sit well with somebody. it is -- a fact.)
1577987;1480956657;mircea_popescu;(and no - there are no whore exceptions. anyone involved in "open source" etc is a whore.)
1577988;1480956688;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cadsoft was a 1990s-style traditional software co., nothing open about it
1577989;1480956697;asciilifeform;just happened to ship a linux binary, was all.
1577990;1480956713;asciilifeform;(statically-linked)
1577991;1480956742;asciilifeform;sorta like what i picture, e.g., eulora, looking like, if mircea_popescu sold it for money
1577992;1480956776;asciilifeform;incidentally 'subscription license' also means 'forget airgap' in case it wasn't obvious
1577993;1480956854;asciilifeform;in fact, we had thread a while back re: how certain industrial equipment is now also 'subscription-only', has satellite dish and gets fresh firmware from mothership each day etc.
1577994;1480956869;mircea_popescu;i can't even recall who was in cadsoft prior to sale.
1577995;1480956879;asciilifeform;cadsoft was a tiny german thing
1577996;1480956887;asciilifeform;made a proggy called 'eagle cad'
1577997;1480956895;mircea_popescu;right.
1577998;1480956915;mircea_popescu;apparently nobody knows key people/history for cadsoft computer gmbh
1577999;1480956919;mircea_popescu;it may not have existed, alf!
1578000;1480956929;phf;(cadsoft used to make EAGLE, which is sort of a goto cad tool for people on linux)
1578001;1480956937;asciilifeform;iirc it itself was a holding co. and bought the proggy elsewhere.
1578002;1480956939;mircea_popescu;no, i know. say names.
1578003;1480956939;asciilifeform;long, long ago.
1578004;1480956947;mircea_popescu;right.
1578005;1480956949;asciilifeform;phf: it is used for 100% of my designs.
1578006;1480956965;asciilifeform;phf: i tried 'kikad', geda, etc. NONE OF THESE AUTOROUT FOR MOTHERCFUCKSSSAKE
1578007;1480956998;asciilifeform;fucktards, for all of the man-hours on gui idiocy, SOMEONE could have implemented sane autorout?!
1578008;1480957000;asciilifeform;but no.
1578009;1480957031;phf;same, though i was told by experienced cad people "autorouting is trash" early on, but soon discovered that they mean "for the purposes of my giant multiboard layout" not "everything that you'll be touching for the next 10 years of your learning"
1578010;1480957049;asciilifeform;it is trash in the sense that it is physically impossible to autorout 100% of board
1578011;1480957053;asciilifeform;(np-complete)
1578012;1480957057;mircea_popescu;autoruting beats hand routing much like google beats sedol.
1578013;1480957063;asciilifeform;aha.
1578014;1480957066;mircea_popescu;just, gotta put work in, and nobody wants to.
1578015;1480957074;asciilifeform;it is meant to be a tool in the hands of a man, is not a man-replacing robotic thing
1578016;1480957077;asciilifeform;power tool
1578017;1480957080;mircea_popescu;because it is A LOT of work for something everyone decided is "a small matter" in advance.
1578018;1480957108;asciilifeform;kikad is developed by, i decided, malicious tards
1578019;1480957120;asciilifeform;who decided that it is somehow acceptable for schematic entry and pcb layout to be separated programs
1578020;1480957126;asciilifeform;and for the outputs to be unsynchronized.
1578021;1480957144;asciilifeform;and for the motherfucking gui to NOT REDRAW CORRECTLY ON LINUX unless PRESS REFRESH KEY!
1578022;1480957147;asciilifeform;i shit thee not.
1578023;1480957168;mircea_popescu;because that's a key ingredient of "i just want to" - deciding various arbitrary bits (especially ones the jwz doesn't well understand) are "small matter". which decision then drives poor resource allocation and is the deep reason for the festering morass of unsolved problems that should have been ; while tons of herbivores run around "revolutionizing" things that needn't on the shaky in reality but strong in perception found
1578024;1480957168;mircea_popescu;ation of you know... all the "Solved problems" that aren't.
1578025;1480957232;asciilifeform;aha, open-sores in 1 paragraph.
1578026;1480957310;phf;asciilifeform: i thought maybe the design was some historic artifact, but no, none of the cads i looked at (including fucking cmu's NS, which is probably first or second cad in existence) had that split.
1578027;1480957327;mircea_popescu;so you know, "autorouting" is "a small matter" and "a solved problem" except in reality it's exactly something to be solved via "artificial intelligence" as understood today, ie, mega-matrix of mostly 0 parameter running a markov process.
1578028;1480957345;asciilifeform;classical 'a*' search
1578029;1480957350;mircea_popescu;yes.
1578030;1480957362;mircea_popescu;anyway - certainly a very valid place for any spinoza in attendance to apply his next years.
1578031;1480957504;mircea_popescu;fror bonus points - steal google's go playing ai and modify it. the problem of routing is grid-discretizable.
1578032;1480957524;asciilifeform;phf: i put in the sweat, actually learned to use geda, it is imho an acceptable design, and i found plenty of complicated items purportedly having been designed with it, but it is BROKEN, the autorouter blew open polygons
1578033;1480957542;asciilifeform;so i have nfi, perhaps the published designs were made with megatonnes of compensatory undergrad sweat...
1578034;1480957585;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: google (or rather, the firm it bought) had 0 original ai. it was 1990s-era techniques, they simply licensed the code and threw iron at it
1578035;1480957602;asciilifeform;INCIDENTALLY afaik the thing ~WAS~ a 'deepblue' scam
1578036;1480957615;asciilifeform;other pro players have been indefinitely delaywanked when asked to play afaik.
1578037;1480957624;asciilifeform;*when they asked
1578038;1480957678;asciilifeform;('deepblue scan' does not mean 'human committee played'... means that the playing was done the same way as asciilifeform does pcb autorouting.)
1578039;1480957681;asciilifeform;*scam
1578040;1480957703;mircea_popescu;be that as it may, the conceptual item solves two major open questions here in tmsr forum : a) "why is this proggy 100mb ?!?" "because it has 100mn datapoints in the ai massager, let it be" ; b) "why does this proggy want to call home ?" "because whenever you accept a design and put it in production, all other installations want to review the datapoint, it's valuable."
1578041;1480957744;asciilifeform;if i wanted this kind of 'program', i'd buy a cow
1578042;1480957749;asciilifeform;or rather, cow-sized amoeba turd
1578043;1480957761;mircea_popescu;the problem of pcb routing will be solved by cow brains in jars or your own brain in jars. pick.
1578044;1480957761;asciilifeform;nothx.
1578045;1480957780;asciilifeform;right now it gets solved to my satisfaction on a modest pc box.
1578046;1480957792;mircea_popescu;if it were satisfaction you wouldn't bitch now woudl you.
1578047;1480957806;mircea_popescu;anyway. management considers the solution available no sort of solution.
1578048;1480957817;asciilifeform;well, once one of us is locked in a room and fully reverses 'eagle', it's solved-solved.
1578049;1480957838;mircea_popescu;i dunno eagle worked for large enough boards.
1578050;1480957851;asciilifeform;well-cracked eagle works for arbitrary-sized boards
1578051;1480957851;mircea_popescu;(recall your "array of fpgas" thing ?)
1578052;1480957857;asciilifeform;and besides wtf you route them in SECTIONS
1578053;1480957863;mircea_popescu;maybe.
1578054;1480957865;asciilifeform;see, there is considerable 'violinist' work involved.
1578055;1480957881;mircea_popescu;i think this is a pretty open question.
1578056;1480957895;mircea_popescu;ie, how much and what kind of violonist is involved in the hardware making of future.
1578057;1480957905;mircea_popescu;re wiring specifically.
1578058;1480957954;asciilifeform;unless someone coughts up a p==np -- some.
1578059;1480957974;mircea_popescu;no argument there.
1578060;1480957984;mircea_popescu;will be some.
1578061;1480958033;phf;also depends if we're still putting out massive interdependent designs, as opposed to some modular architectures like greenarrays or scheme81 or
1578062;1480958048;asciilifeform;'collectivist' cad that won't run on airgapped box or in martian death capsule, is a lol.
1578063;1480958048;mircea_popescu;yes but the bitch is you can't actually know.
1578064;1480958055;mircea_popescu;this isn't one of those "X is better".
1578065;1480958082;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not a matter of "won't run". your gf runs in the bedroom just as well as woman runs in gangbang party.
1578066;1480958096;mircea_popescu;except she won't be learning any new tricks.
1578067;1480958120;asciilifeform;oblig here is y. kreinin's article on 'computers you can't program'
1578068;1480958127;asciilifeform;'do you want a comp or an electric best friend'
1578069;1480958153;asciilifeform;!#s computers you can't program
1578070;1480958154;a111;6 results for "computers you can't program", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=computers%20you%20can't%20program
1578071;1480958366;mircea_popescu;phf check out how that breaks ^
1578072;1480958525;asciilifeform;btw the 'array of fpgas' thing is getting made, as soon as i'm satisfied that lattice 'ice' is ~actually~ reversed. and not simply 'kicad'-ed.
1578073;1480958539;phf;erc also parses the url incorrectly, but ' is a valid character in url..
1578074;1480958559;mircea_popescu;i think at some point you signed up for pain.
1578075;1480958641;mircea_popescu;anyway at some point drop the link to the actual yosefk article you wanted to reference asciilifeform .
1578076;1480958642;phf;i believe that was around the time i started reading asciilifeform
1578077;1480958651;asciilifeform;oh yes, it was misnamed article,
1578078;1480958701;mircea_popescu;fwiw, while ' may be valid, trilema's title-to-url parser helpfully nukes it.
1578079;1480958705;asciilifeform;http://yosefk.com/blog/high-level-cpu-follow-up.html
1578080;1480958772;mircea_popescu;(or in other words - the notion that unicode invented shitsoup is nonsense ; we had idiots before we had water pistol glyphs)
1578081;1480958831;mircea_popescu;and btw, today was an epic log day. everyone's in great form apparently. monday people.
1578082;1480958836;asciilifeform;https://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/988.php << recent lul by same author
1578083;1480958865;asciilifeform;( https://archive.is/L25Vc )
1578084;1480959053;asciilifeform;'$100 says your DRAM chip works. The DRAM chip is a mindless slave implementing precise commands by the DRAM controller on the master chip, without any feedback - there are no retries, no negotiation, no way to say you're sorry. And no software will run properly on faulty DRAM. Faulty DRAM isn't a marketable product. Your board is definitely buggy. They told you they checked signal integrity, but they lied. If DRAM malfunctions, it's
1578085;1480959054;asciilifeform; probably the board, or the boot code programming DRAM-related components in a way that doesn't work on this board.'
1578086;1480959202;asciilifeform;'A chip can have 2 processors with 8-byte buses each, going to a DRAM giving you 16 bytes per cycle, through a shared 8-byte-per-cycle bottleneck. This interconnect is the handiwork of some time-starved dude on the chip maker's team, armed with an interconnect-generating tool. Even such an idiotic issue will manifest on some benchmarks but not others, and might not get caught at design time. And if you think that is stupid, I've hear
1578087;1480959202;asciilifeform;d of a level 2 cache which never actually cached anything, and this fact happily went unnoticed for a few months. '
1578088;1480959389;mircea_popescu;you skipped the good part, which is : "If you are indeed a chip maker, this is when you find out why fabless chip companies are worth so much more than the equally fabless vendors of "IPs" such as CPUs and DRAM controllers.".
1578089;1480959395;mircea_popescu;the probnlem of pricing in technology is indeed large.
1578090;1480959432;asciilifeform;the 'konsoomer' wrecked the entire field, and it is not clear to asciilifeform that it can be unwrecked with current tech.
1578091;1480959469;mircea_popescu;nor is it clear that without the konsoomer the field would be asciilifeform-accessible anymore than hillary's hairy snatch or the satellite launching programme.
1578092;1480959480;asciilifeform;oh that part is screamingly obvious
1578093;1480959492;mircea_popescu;bears a mention now an' again :[
1578094;1480959500;mircea_popescu;:p i mean.
1578095;1480959532;asciilifeform;i'll point out that konrad zuse built a very acceptable comp out of junk discarded by nazi germany, in mother's kitchen.
1578096;1480959539;asciilifeform;but no one will play 'doom' on it, no.
1578097;1480959575;mircea_popescu;myeah. oldest programming language too.
1578098;1480959602;mircea_popescu;plankalkul.
1578099;1480959615;asciilifeform;and as for asciilifeform , he had moar phun on sov 'mk-61' programmable calc, with ~100 bytes of volatile memory, than on pretty much anything since.
1578100;1480959811;asciilifeform;re konsoomer, dan mocsny had analogy involving a pub, where the 'normal' folx mock the drunks, without realizing that the pub could not exist in anything like its present form without their open wallets
1578101;1480959837;mircea_popescu;not so. it couldn't exist IN THAT STUPID CULTURE. but in better culture, kvas.
1578102;1480959844;asciilifeform;well yes
1578103;1480959845;mircea_popescu;and this is broadly the point - to transition to better culture.
1578104;1480959890;asciilifeform;'better culture' does not even have to be 'cpu costs as boeing'. can be, e.g., 'cpu costs as cessna'
1578105;1480959921;mircea_popescu;it could be cpu costs a dime or a testicle, the issue of price is ulterior in this discussion, makes about as much sense as "the utilty of the sun"
1578106;1480959931;asciilifeform;shorthand
1578107;1480959948;mircea_popescu;sun preexists any definition of utility. yes shorthand, but shorthand for nonsense.
1578108;1480959954;asciilifeform;for 'not financed by 100,000,001 idjits buying lolcatron for month's pay
1578109;1480959973;mircea_popescu;it really is a null pointer reference.
1578110;1480960004;asciilifeform;i disagree. if you remove the lolcat users, you get 10,000x unit cost. unless you have martian tech we'd all like to know about.
1578111;1480960063;mircea_popescu;if you change the culture, none of your symbols in there are meaningful anymore.
1578112;1480960074;asciilifeform;expand plox
1578113;1480960089;mircea_popescu;let's work on the drunk dudes in pub construction.
1578114;1480960142;mircea_popescu;in the english world, where drunks and pubs exist, and the observation re pubs existing because drunks, not because sunday drinkers holds, there are a number of objects defined, such as the fact that a pub is really a public house (which is relevant if for instance you wonder why it should need or want a permit to exist).
1578115;1480960185;mircea_popescu;in the russian world, where drunks do exist, but the drinking place (which is NOT a pub, even if translated as such because what you gonna do) is supported by a social conventionthat has nothing to do with drunkedness
1578116;1480960188;asciilifeform;^ the charitable interpretation might be that some of its operating costs are externalized
1578117;1480960204;asciilifeform;and yes.
1578118;1480960208;mircea_popescu;the removal of drunks doesn't have anything to do whatsoever with "pubs" and also "a drunk" is not the same drunk.
1578119;1480960257;mircea_popescu;so : if you change the convention, your objects become undefined. what's "a processor" ?
1578120;1480960290;mircea_popescu;"the place where you drink" or "the public house" aka "brothel", ie, the place where disorderly (as per anglican/puritan definitions of order) is tolerated, ie, a tolerance house ?
1578121;1480960324;asciilifeform;which is why i said 'martian tech we'd like to know about.' so, if mircea_popescu knows how to 'undo vlsi' and mass-manufacture individual transistors again, instead of cpu, and put'em together how he likes ~later~, and have result resemble pentium more than univac -- then, for instance, yes, cultural form
1578122;1480960399;mircea_popescu;yes. but you also get a very different "cost"
1578123;1480960419;mircea_popescu;importantly, one that can't be factored with the other one.
1578124;1480960449;*;mircea_popescu has been on a "pricing in tech" mental kick for the past half hour, so i was looking at that angle.
1578125;1480960463;mircea_popescu;it's a fucking large problem i'll tell you that.
1578126;1480960478;asciilifeform;you get the cost of mircea_popescu's dinner. as per the thread. where 'idiot rube cannot buy mircea_popescu's dinner, prepared by enthusiastic harem, for any moneys'
1578127;1480960487;mircea_popescu;i mean i've been toying with it in pieces such as "what's the tmsr gdp", which is very much exactly the same thing as discussion here, but anwyay.
1578128;1480960599;mircea_popescu;(vaguely related, mp's grandmother once recounted the observation of one of her highschool classmates, who pointed out that they (the girls in school) should be more respectful of the prostitutes, because if it weren't for them (the prostitutes) none of them (the girls, in school) would be (girls, in school)."
1578129;1480960625;mircea_popescu;this very neatly mirrors the pub, drunks observation, and for very much the same reason. the driver's the same oppressive attitude upstream.
1578130;1480960627;asciilifeform;kreinin's piece is imho quite relevant, it is about the consequences of the ~wrong things being cheap~. and i cannot help but wonder if gutenberg did the same thing to the written word
1578131;1480960659;mircea_popescu;and now, on the thread of this analytic approach, i may present the theory that the problem aren't the idiot consumers, but very specific opression of the english sort upstream.
1578132;1480960668;*;asciilifeform is all ears
1578133;1480960669;mircea_popescu;ie, "intellectual property", or a misplaced expectation of control.
1578134;1480960777;mircea_popescu;once there's a "king", in the english tradition, who can do patently idiotic stuff such as require "bonded warehouses" (look it up) and "control trade" (please, do look it up) then "property" of a sort emerges. by contrast, in dutch world, where no such king and no such layered idiocy thereby, also property. but substantially different property.
1578135;1480960879;asciilifeform;the english still demolished the dutch..
1578136;1480960894;asciilifeform;what, dutch slipped on a banana ?
1578137;1480960912;mircea_popescu;it can then be said that what exactly " brave Landeskinder sein" means is chiefly driven by what/who is "mein König und Held".
1578138;1480960923;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform actually the dutch demolished the english.
1578139;1480960932;mircea_popescu;william became king.
1578140;1480960966;mircea_popescu;(but there is also the case of the dutch raid when they literally burned down london - except in a strange case of premonitory japanese misbehaviour, failed to bomb the right thing. this is in the logs.)
1578141;1480961034;asciilifeform;what was the permanent effect of this victory ?
1578142;1480961045;mircea_popescu;there exists no permanent effect in nature.
1578143;1480961060;*;asciilifeform very much expected this answer
1578144;1480961113;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the point remains - it could be argued the actual driver for currently perceptible idiocy is not sin (ie, redditards, 1993 aol, etc) but apostasy (ie, "ip", british notions of what the crown may do to commerce, etc)
1578145;1480961179;mircea_popescu;i dunno how familiar the reader is with early us colonial history - but the british uniquely pretended that all trade must go through british warehouses. in london. they kept laoding and unloading things. so they can be taxed. exactly like the notion that an imaginary "right" of someone to something may require me to do specific things. ie, the fritz chip.
1578146;1480961238;mircea_popescu;but also ie, "rape". and so forth.
1578147;1480961249;mircea_popescu;the whole perceptible structure of perceived reality, actually.
1578148;1480961270;asciilifeform;all of this crud is thermonuke fallout from the so-called 'enlightenment' .
1578149;1480961273;asciilifeform;very long half-life.
1578150;1480961330;mircea_popescu;the simple notion that i shall read the string X as /y" rather than /z" because the entity labeled X "knows how their name is spelled", for instance, is exactly of the nature of "you must include X in your item because Y law" ; or of the "sexual harassment" ; or of ALL OTHER THINGS.
1578151;1480961348;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it is not, because incredibly enough the french actually don't have these problems (but others)
1578152;1480961368;asciilifeform;last i heard, 'the french' are blackening and eating Moar Kouskous
1578153;1480961371;mircea_popescu;seems on the balance of things more likely to be fallout from the haphazard "quick, create an ideology to back up this dude's wan to get a new hussy"
1578154;1480961375;asciilifeform;and will soon have 0 problems
1578155;1480961379;asciilifeform;because 0 thefrench left
1578156;1480961382;mircea_popescu;yes.
1578157;1480961407;mircea_popescu;(it should be pointed out the french blackened many times before)
1578158;1480961504;mircea_popescu;anyway, when i say "don't have these problems but others" i specifically mean as evident in sexual behaviour (cue that "scandal" when sarkozy took some random woman to random event and the london-based journo-hos had a collective aneurism and kept blathering about how they'll bus supporters over)
1578159;1480962202;mircea_popescu;the dutch-british comparison is actually very apt and very instructive. two samples : at the time of their war with the united provinces, the dutch could outproduce the british about 6:1 ; at the time the tulip craze blew up, dutch courts told all aplicants "sfyl" quite literally.
1578160;1480962263;mircea_popescu;ie, alligned with tmsr and generally righteousness ; rather than the "equitable" imperial idiocy then embodied in the brits.
1578161;1480962338;asciilifeform;wai newyork in place of newamsterdam then ..?
1578162;1480962553;mircea_popescu;i think it's actually a matter of sexual preference.
1578163;1480962569;mircea_popescu;people preferred the indonesian whores to the iroquis whores.
1578164;1480962599;*;mircea_popescu also doesn't think the bovine new world female, with the big face, ugly fat lips and tiny eyes is particularly attractive.
1578165;1480963149;mircea_popescu;to insanely stretch comparison : it could be said the sovereign prince of orange was a sort of stalin to dewitt's lenin. yes, both soviets, but not very equal soviets - one somewhat cooler than the other ; and so the brits picked the one which was closest to their capacities and aspirations, which is to say the uncool one ; and similarly the products of the dutch republic split their energy - the shittier ones went to new yor
1578166;1480963149;mircea_popescu;k and the rest to malacca. hence ~dutch~ east indies and british north america.
1578167;1480963177;mircea_popescu;undefensible in its parts, this holds in summary a lot better than anyone'd expect.
1578168;1480966704;asciilifeform;https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unzip/+bug/1643750 << in other lulz.
1578169;1480966735;asciilifeform;'A buffer overflow occurs in zipinfo (part of the unzip package) when the compression method in the central directory file header is greater then 999'
1578170;1480966752;mircea_popescu;i thought we already lolled at this
1578171;1480966820;mircea_popescu;o wait. different... portion of code. ookay.
1578172;1480966836;asciilifeform;aaaha.
1578173;1480966891;asciilifeform;meanwhile on spam planet, https://archive.is/YxNQq >> 1 standard dnsoil ftw.
1578174;1480966926;asciilifeform;1 sc4mz0r to rule'em all, and in the darkness BIND'em, etc
1578175;1480966937;mircea_popescu;in other lulz
1578176;1480966942;mircea_popescu;!~google nonsuch palace
1578177;1480966943;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Nonsuch Palace - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonsuch_Palace>; Henry VIII's lost Nonsuch Palace recreated 300 years after it was ...: <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050919/Henry-VIIIs-lost-Nonsuch-Palace-recreated-300-years-destroyed.html>; Nonsuch Palace - The Epsom and Ewell History Explorer Website: <http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/NonsuchPala
1578178;1480966958;asciilifeform;'about 43% of all ICANN-accredited registrars are now controlled by just one company.'
1578179;1480966961;asciilifeform;lul
1578180;1480967126;asciilifeform;from same rag: 'Statistics released today show that the .uk registry suspended 8,049 domains in the 12 months to October 31, compared to 3,889 in the year-ago period.
1578181;1480967126;asciilifeform;It’s an almost tenfold increase on 2014, when just 948 domains were taken down.
1578182;1480967126;asciilifeform;Nominet suspends domains when law enforcement agencies tell it the domains are being used in crime. No court order is required and Nominet rarely refuses a request.'
1578183;1480967606;mircea_popescu;lolk
1578184;1480968158;mircea_popescu;i have nfi who would be idiotic enough to use "country" domains like .uk (afaik you can't even do that, gotta get subdomaons off their holy site "co") or .ro etc.
1578185;1480968165;mircea_popescu;what, countries on the internet ? seriously ?
1578186;1480968173;mircea_popescu;what's next, support for national chicken scribblings ?
1578187;1480969241;asciilifeform;i've monumentally nfi, why. possibly for historic reasons (not everybody is mpex and happy to have links die every 6 months)
1578188;1480969278;*;asciilifeform finished, afaik, swapping all of the mpex links on nosuchlabs to new .biz
1578189;1480969694;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577753 << both of'em, mikrotik 'RouterOS v6.35.2' >> i now say let's pronounce as in 'necrotic'.
1578190;1480969694;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 14:06 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F764EC5736FA3782A599FBBAE8F5867BD66D04EED4A2579F7282CE6453F80839 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.211.231.129 (ssh-rsa key from 195.211.231.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
1578191;1480969742;asciilifeform;first such we see in .ua iirc.
1578192;1480969770;asciilifeform;where is it, the 5th floor of kiev's idiocy palace with the cia office ?!
1578193;1480973038;asciilifeform;largely but not entirely unrelated,
1578194;1480973060;asciilifeform;anybody here have occasion to ~actually run 'tor'~ lately ? it is hilarious in some new ways:
1578195;1480973110;asciilifeform;for instance, it demands RDRANDtronic quantities ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577952 ) of rng, and -- if only finds a traditional linux /dev/random, the kind that weeps a few bytes/sec -- complains loudly...
1578196;1480973110;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 16:04 asciilifeform: the folx who got 100MB/sec from /dev/random were the mac people, and it leads me to suspect that theirs is in fact == to /dev/urandom
1578197;1480974767;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/IdkiM << in other intel wonders, the reason your 'uberfast intuhnet' is laggy is becuase of 'high-priority maintenance tasks hogging the processor, causing latency to increase by at least 200ms' in the puma 6 (atom x86)  equipped boxes, eg. Arris Surfboard SB6190, Hitron CGNV4, and Compal CH7465-LG
1578198;1480976171;shinohai;!~later tell mod6 Start Height a success, will report results with African and further key imports later
1578199;1480976171;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1578200;1480976362;asciilifeform;l0l! x86 in modem?! laugh or cry ?
1578201;1480976779;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/0MKcs << other lulz from same rag
1578202;1480977055;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/vT63P << other other from same : "Microsoft is working on a patch for a bug or feature in Windows 10 that allowed access to the command line and, using a live Linux .ISO, made it possible steal BitLocker keys during OS updates. The command line interface bypasses BitLocker and permits access to local drives simply by tapping the Shift and F10 keys."
1578203;1480977451;pete_dushenski;so it was an unseasonably balmy 0C here on saturday and now it feels like... -27C with wind and humidity. this is a Good Thing. feels more like xmas time when bundled up, drinking tea by the fire, shoveling walks, or driving slowly through the ice and snow.
1578204;1480977644;pete_dushenski;http://www.medievalists.net/2016/11/30-medieval-texts-translated-2016/
1578205;1480977733;pete_dushenski;^ for those a bit behind on their http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-28#1574132
1578206;1480977733;a111;Logged on 2016-11-28 20:37 asciilifeform: history post-rome requires --- horrors! --- languages
1578207;1480978080;mircea_popescu;is everyone ready for some google calc lulz ?
1578208;1480978088;mircea_popescu;!~calc 2846 * 210 * 4.31 * 1.8 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5
1578209;1480978089;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 2846 * 210 * 4.31 * 1.8 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5 = 5309782.079999999
1578210;1480978094;mircea_popescu;!~calc 2846 * 180 * 4.31 * 2.1 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5
1578211;1480978095;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 2846 * 180 * 4.31 * 2.1 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5 = 5309782.08
1578212;1480978188;asciilifeform;in other not-quite-noose, asciilifeform got a small thermovisor as bday gift, and it sorta worx, e.g., http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/thermo_shitter.jpg << shitter tank water clearly visible; http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/thermo_taps.jpg << hot vs cold taps
1578213;1480978198;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what, were ua diddlomods before.
1578214;1480978199;asciilifeform;*water tank level
1578215;1480978215;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: mikrotiks in usa. iirc these 2 were the first
1578216;1480978218;asciilifeform;in ua
1578217;1480978221;asciilifeform;(in usa - many)
1578218;1480978222;mircea_popescu;ah ah
1578219;1480978270;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so the tor enthusiasts will buy fuckgoats.
1578220;1480978278;mircea_popescu;o wait.
1578221;1480978284;asciilifeform;lel aha
1578222;1480978287;deedbot;http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/12/05/the-sentiments-of-grass/ << Ossasepia - The Sentiments of Grass
1578223;1480979757;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-442050.txt
1578224;1480981500;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/a-collection-of-distinctions/#comment-119996 << mircea_popescu et al.
1578225;1480981859;shinohai;In coindesk/coinbase delusions: http://archive.is/CTFwt
1578226;1480981910;asciilifeform;shinohai: may 24 ??
1578227;1480981913;asciilifeform;pre-nuke
1578228;1480981966;shinohai;Sure I expect with that ~$6 price it has dropped to today has something to do with it
1578229;1480982822;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu et al : http://trilema.com/2016/a-collection-of-distinctions/#comment-119997 << part2.
1578230;1480983534;trinque;http://trilema.com/2016/a-collection-of-distinctions/#comment-119998 << awaits approval, but basically "can link a deed in rating's notes field"
1578231;1480983537;trinque;asciilifeform: ^
1578232;1480983607;trinque;or sign a copy of your whole wot and deed if you prefer, though mp makes it clear that habitually doing so has hazards.
1578233;1480983833;asciilifeform;imho many of these hazards come from scalar-sig
1578234;1480983984;BingoBoingo;shinohai: What 6 dollars? This is not December 2012!
1578235;1480984044;shinohai;$6.74 	
1578236;1480984112;*;shinohai can now buy 2 bottles of Night Train for the price of 1 ether
1578237;1480984558;mod6;shinohai: thanks!
1578238;1480984616;trinque;asciilifeform: what benefits are reaped by having these be computable, rather than http://deedbot.org/deed-427443-1.txt
1578239;1480984658;trinque;as I pondered the thing it also brought from the dark recesses of my mind the "semantic web"
1578240;1480984691;trinque;aka shared global mutable schema is hard
1578241;1480984756;asciilifeform;trinque: the computability is for the purpose of a (hypothetical) ~generalized~ v.
1578242;1480984785;asciilifeform;whole thing came from 'how do i negrate patches' or even 'negrate prb'
1578243;1480984792;trinque;right
1578244;1480985036;asciilifeform;trinque: v was a solution to the 'shared mutable'
1578245;1480985052;asciilifeform;shared ~immutable~ -- trivial.
1578246;1480985177;asciilifeform;trinque: the fundamental question i want to answer, and which the linked piece was an attempt to answer, was whether signatures naturally fall into equivalence classes.
1578247;1480985180;asciilifeform;and, if so, which.
1578248;1480985221;trinque;right re: immutable, hence there is no extensibility proposed
1578249;1480987083;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0WnddW5gZI << in other ooooooldz
1578250;1480987084;asciilifeform;'Electronics: Magnetic Cores I: Properties 1961 US Army Training Film'
1578251;1480987500;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F88EEFD45F6F4512B02F65BCDB0A7BCE490041AD0F05E5CC39EDDFDF1C0DA6A2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1509...5329 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.47.126 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.47.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (CSR170PC-Multi-CaHaSe-SaAn-cBAD-c2534-c2765-c2516. US CA)
1578252;1480991625;ben_vulpes;does the lispy lordship have opinions to share about cl extension libs like "alexandria" and "metabang-bind"?
1578253;1480991982;trinque;iirc phf has mentioned alexandria
1578254;1480992015;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/vk30h << in other noose, ohnoez, fake noose, fake noose! d00d fires into ceiling of pedopizza.
1578255;1480992242;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/ZPa8a << terrorist content!
1578256;1480992370;trinque;and they dare call the "great firewall" oppressive
1578257;1480992402;trinque;inb4 every deedbot published item is a terrorist hash
1578258;1480992420;ben_vulpes;terrorist numbers!
1578259;1480992543;trinque;will actually be used for http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1578133
1578260;1480992543;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 17:57 mircea_popescu: ie, "intellectual property", or a misplaced expectation of control.
1578261;1480995181;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F88EEFD45F6F4512B02F65BCDB0A7BCE490041AD0F05E5CC39EDDFDF1C0DA6A2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1359...7203 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.47.126 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.47.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (CSR170PC-Multi-CaHaSe-SaAn-cBAD-c2534-c2765-c2516. US CA)
1578262;1480996643;asciilifeform;http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2016/q4/607 << in yet other lulz
1578263;1480996689;asciilifeform;^ a bit unusually, appears to have actual attribution of the shitgnomancy
1578264;1480996700;asciilifeform;' The bug was introduced on Aug 19, 2011: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/f6fb8f100b807378fda19e83e5ac6828b638603a '
1578265;1480996775;asciilifeform;'... we can change the packet version to TPACKET_V1 with packet_setsockopt() after init_prb_bdqc() has been executed and before packet_set_ring() has returned. ... When the socket is closed, packet_set_ring() will not delete the timer since the socket version is now TPACKET_V1. The struct timer_list that describes the timer object is located inside the struct packet_sock for the socket itself however and will be freed with a call to
1578266;1480996775;asciilifeform;kfree(). We then have a use-after-free... '
1578267;1480998895;*;BingoBoingo tried a couple drafts on the fake news about pedo pizza being "attacked" and decided not to spread unconfirmed rumours and innuendos about what smells like a false flag
1578268;1480999858;mircea_popescu;good call.
1578269;1481000230;BingoBoingo;I mean "shooter" conviced of pedophile pizza but doesn't shed pedophile blood?!
1578270;1481001272;mircea_popescu;Ehrsam wrote: "There is nothing that bitcoin can do which Ethereum can’t." << aha. bwahahah. how about not falling over every week ?
1578271;1481001419;mircea_popescu;trinque apparently this was the first time you commented under that name. i dunno, i thought i saw you before. anyway, should go straight through next time.
1578272;1481003902;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1578273;1481003907;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 751.0, vol: 5686.78288839 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 751.66, vol: 5245.82133 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 752.23, vol: 8504.58373911 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 767.412464, vol: 1470969.48600000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 753.04, vol: 1733.8489545 | Volume-weighted last average: 767.191299207
1578274;1481027111;thestringpuller;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-11#1554678 << In practice dragging someone out of the cave usually results in temper tantrums.
1578275;1481027111;a111;Logged on 2016-10-11 20:26 mircea_popescu: no, i'm implying that nobody in plato's cave knows how badly the cave sucks until someone comes in riding a pegassus
1578276;1481027181;thestringpuller;hence the pegasus (assuming they can see it)
1578277;1481029180;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/100CAE7A776AD64680BA79678B251D0FED4E74ED5809C0CB72E443D006DF15CB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1397...5967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.118.232.174 (ssh-rsa key from 87.118.232.174 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
1578278;1481029180;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A61730B2012A2336FD271D000CA46DC5653BB1D1D0EDE99267BCD2D8ABE8D49F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1772...0167 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.25.160 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.25.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.admode.lt. LT)
1578279;1481029181;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A699710E41B79E9651FA6BCE753216B8B7F39054A4150F856A74AB89952AA7B2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1432...4237 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.223.152.240 (ssh-rsa key from 41.223.152.240 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MZ MPM)
1578280;1481031311;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EE1F2E9FC2C0ABFB22D1ED6985AAC2C7D16C5B215F17AABA0A6014570F19E7FD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1432...4237 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.103.183.254 (ssh-rsa key from 185.103.183.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1578281;1481031311;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A699710E41B79E9651FA6BCE753216B8B7F39054A4150F856A74AB89952AA7B2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1432...4237 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.223.152.240 (ssh-rsa key from 41.223.152.240 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MZ MPM)
1578282;1481032931;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9460417F17B2CD1F76F6DB069E697C5DABA33283141E06F1ABA005ACF08CD48F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1797...6589 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.25.168 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.25.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.mokamediagroup.com. LT)
1578283;1481033825;shinohai;https://blog.filippo.io/giving-up-on-long-term-pgp/
1578284;1481033880;shinohai;"I'm gonna quit using gpg, but you can contact me using signal + tor!"
1578285;1481033978;*;mircea_popescu has nfi who this schmuck is.
1578286;1481034042;shinohai;Works for cloudflare, nuff said
1578287;1481034054;mircea_popescu;whatever, he gets at least 2 encrypted mails a year i get about two dozen an hour.
1578288;1481034072;mircea_popescu;why does he figure himself as a "perfect user" i have nfi - before a business comms system works for you, YOU GOTTA HAVE A BUSINESS.
1578289;1481034084;mircea_popescu;random schmucko bum-student dun have a business ; or any business here.
1578290;1481034195;mircea_popescu;"I never ever ever successfully used the WoT to validate a public key." ie what we do here multiple times a day ?
1578291;1481034200;mircea_popescu;dude wasn't using pgp, what can i say.
1578292;1481034248;mircea_popescu;oh, he's trying to sell whatever other nsa altpgp. myeah, whatever.
1578293;1481034264;mircea_popescu;!!rate filippo valsorda -10 nsa asset.
1578294;1481034265;*;deedbot hands you a broomstick.
1578295;1481034271;shinohai;lol
1578296;1481034289;mircea_popescu;o look, works for... cloudflare.
1578297;1481034296;mircea_popescu;dem shocking surprises
1578298;1481034319;shinohai;>>>  09:20 	+shinohai	Works for cloudflare, nuff said
1578299;1481034333;shinohai;Their "Crypto Expert" or whatevs
1578300;1481034360;shinohai;(but opinions ....)
1578301;1481034413;mircea_popescu;aha.
1578302;1481034759;mircea_popescu;schmucks really came a long way from the 80s. srsly, consumer-mentality based fud "oh noes, i worry about my key! government should come and give me certainties! putin influenced elections! guns kill people!"
1578303;1481034765;mircea_popescu;that's all ? really ?
1578304;1481034788;mircea_popescu;just go make a littoral self-rape ship, this software/internet stuff is a waste of your talents, folks.
1578305;1481035192;Framedragger;ah, well it seems he did make progress with short ID bruteforcing, that's gotta count for something.
1578306;1481035202;Framedragger;(also rehi)
1578307;1481035315;Framedragger;"If you need to securely contact me, your best bet is to DM me asking for my Signal number" << hmh.
1578308;1481035321;Framedragger;(DM as in twitter)
1578309;1481035389;shinohai;total sekoority
1578310;1481035640;mircea_popescu;it's not gonna count for anything in this context.
1578311;1481035666;mircea_popescu;hurr durr, they were doing pgp subversion research and picked his hanno bock to publish some results.
1578312;1481035708;mircea_popescu;notice how he glued himself to heartbleed (which, unlike the normal hanno bockian crap, was a surprise to the empire).
1578313;1481035732;mircea_popescu;that's kinda what they do, whenever something moves without hitler they try to barnacle on it.
1578314;1481035801;asciilifeform;pretty lulzy piece; somehow the species of insect was quite apparent imho from 1-2 paragraphs of merely the style of the text !
1578315;1481035881;mircea_popescu;anyway, i guess all this gives a very interesting answer to the "how does tmsr gpd compare to fiat states gdp". apparently they produce 2 gpgrams/year/capita, and consist of what, 1k of the herbivores ? meanwhile ben_vulpes 's thing deals in what, dozens/day ?
1578316;1481035885;Framedragger;i think he's just young (https://github.com/FiloSottile). i remember his heartbleed test tool, it wasn't innovative but was useful. (but i hear what mircea_popescu is saying)
1578317;1481035901;mircea_popescu;!~calc 2 * 1000 / (24 * 365)
1578318;1481035903;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 2 * 1000 / (24 * 365) = 0.228310502283105
1578319;1481035921;mircea_popescu;ie, for every empire gdp tmsr does ~4.5
1578320;1481035945;mircea_popescu;Framedragger guess what, toddlers drinking bleach die just like adults do.
1578321;1481035960;asciilifeform;Framedragger: the way hannoboecks work is that they will pick a trivial but 'glamorous' problem to 'solve' and score 'cred' with rubes thereby
1578322;1481035967;asciilifeform;boeck himself does this ~weekly
1578323;1481035983;Framedragger;right, right. and also the whole "incompetence ~= malice" thing.
1578324;1481036030;asciilifeform;there was a thread re 'do-ocracy', a name one of the perpetrators gave to this practice
1578325;1481036103;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578282 << 'Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) Server at 79.98.25.168 Port 80'
1578326;1481036103;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 14:02 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9460417F17B2CD1F76F6DB069E697C5DABA33283141E06F1ABA005ACF08CD48F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1797...6589 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.25.168 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.25.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.mokamediagroup.com. LT)
1578327;1481036117;phf;why does he go through song and dance of "officially" abandoning his key, if he has by own admission no counterparties?
1578328;1481036121;asciilifeform;was there an ubuntu based on diddled-debian, mircea_popescu et al ?
1578329;1481036126;asciilifeform;i had nfi.
1578330;1481036145;*;phf is confusedly observing native's rain dance of "sekure comms"
1578331;1481036155;asciilifeform;phf: same reason elliot r. 'abandoned traitorous women' though he had none..?
1578332;1481036299;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ofcourse.
1578333;1481036308;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which one(s) ?
1578334;1481036315;Framedragger;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161206/#101 << hah, same hosting company and same /24 that is used for Framedragger's logotron and other things
1578335;1481036316;scriba;Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
1578336;1481036317;scriba;Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x92 in position 5709: invalid start byte]
1578337;1481036325;Framedragger;oh shit.
1578338;1481036328;mircea_popescu;lol.
1578339;1481036346;Framedragger;"i dug the dirt myself and now gotta eat it"
1578340;1481036367;Framedragger;for logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578325 ^ is what i meant
1578341;1481036367;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 14:55 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578282 << 'Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) Server at 79.98.25.168 Port 80'
1578342;1481036369;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, ubuntu repackages debian every 6 mo or so
1578343;1481036375;asciilifeform;aaah
1578344;1481036396;mircea_popescu;(they "commit to security updates within 9 months". fancy that wonder.)
1578345;1481036398;phf;Framedragger: fwiw the logs have properly reffed the original link, no need for a second one
1578346;1481036427;mircea_popescu;anyway. 10.04/10.10/11.04 are squeeze ; the rest up to 14.04 wheezy and then jessie.
1578347;1481036428;Framedragger;ah, sure phf, gotcha, cool stuff
1578348;1481036454;mircea_popescu;and they always package "sid" (ie, devel) as opposed to stable
1578349;1481036470;Framedragger;need the latest node.js!!!
1578350;1481036565;mircea_popescu;https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files << there's even a convenient listing.
1578351;1481036572;shinohai;!~later tell mod6 http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ecRir/?raw=true
1578352;1481036572;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1578353;1481036580;Framedragger;(the 79.98.25.168 pop is interesting tho, as some of these hosting-company-i-use boxen get provisioned with everything installed, and i'm sure as fuck that "not all" customers regen ssh host keys. so there may be more pops, or other interesting goodness. probably the whole /16 is worthy of getting properly port-scanned, lots of broken stuff there i'm sure - if anyone has time etc)
1578354;1481036680;mircea_popescu;phf for the obvious reason, the horde of consumers want to do what other people have done. the idea is for terrorists to not be able to communicate with upstanding, law abiding citizens, not the other way around.
1578355;1481036695;mircea_popescu;gotta stop the spread of "fake news" and other burgeois propaganda.
1578356;1481036862;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, "Unicode on UNIX is only madness if you force it on everything. But that's not how Unicode on UNIX works. UNIX does not have a distinction between unicode and byte APIs. They are one and the same which makes them easy to deal with." (from thing guy linked, http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-is-probably-never-going-to-support-python-3/#comment-119991 ).
1578357;1481036875;mircea_popescu;obviously... except until www gets involved and you have escaped code points vs bytestream
1578358;1481037433;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9460417F17B2CD1F76F6DB069E697C5DABA33283141E06F1ABA005ACF08CD48F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1432...5707 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.25.168 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.25.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.mokamediagroup.com. LT)
1578359;1481037433;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/100CAE7A776AD64680BA79678B251D0FED4E74ED5809C0CB72E443D006DF15CB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1352...2407 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.118.232.174 (ssh-rsa key from 87.118.232.174 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
1578360;1481037433;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A61730B2012A2336FD271D000CA46DC5653BB1D1D0EDE99267BCD2D8ABE8D49F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...6497 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.25.160 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.25.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.admode.lt. LT)
1578361;1481037478;mircea_popescu;aanyway. the moral broadly speaking is that there's a windows-niggers-and-other-idiots python ("windows-niggers-and-other-idiots" which is how you decode "3" in unicode) and a normal people python which finally became stable cca 2010 and thanks god.
1578362;1481037754;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578252 << as long as they fit into the head (like alexandria), fine for me. why are you asking?
1578363;1481037754;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 02:33 ben_vulpes: does the lispy lordship have opinions to share about cl extension libs like "alexandria" and "metabang-bind"?
1578364;1481037771;mircea_popescu;jurov hey, do you have any worn old screens ?
1578365;1481037829;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578252 << the two are different beasts. alexandria by design is a set of helper functions that wouldn't be out of place in the standard (complete with sometimes obtuse names!), some like with-gensyms doplist flatten iota if/when-let i've seen reimplemented all over the place. bind is more of a everything and kitchen sink replacement for builtin operators
1578366;1481037829;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 02:33 ben_vulpes: does the lispy lordship have opinions to share about cl extension libs like "alexandria" and "metabang-bind"?
1578367;1481037925;jurov;mircea_popescu: no and iirc i never used them
1578368;1481037958;mircea_popescu;oh i thought you bought one of the first ones.
1578369;1481038187;phf;ben_vulpes: if you were to use bind everywhere you can use it (e.g. as a replacement for let, destructuring-bind) your code is going to look sufficiently different that it's not clear if you're even programming in common lisp at that point. makes the result less readable for other cl programmers, and code becomes harder to future proof. the tradeoff is generally seen as not worth it (too intrusive for little payoff)
1578370;1481038269;jurov;mircea_popescu: just looked into storage to be sure, nope. but by time screens came out, i got scared by amounts you(plural) invested into eulora and gave up on it
1578371;1481038282;mircea_popescu;darn
1578372;1481038299;mircea_popescu;they kinda became rare and are selling for crazy, 500%+ premiums.
1578373;1481038356;mircea_popescu;anyway. any tool bps or stuff ? many things went up a lot.
1578374;1481038396;jurov;i doubt it, gave up on creating tools long before that
1578375;1481038404;mircea_popescu;aite.
1578376;1481038974;*;jurov had once amassed almost-significant amount of eulora stuff ... in a claim that vanished :D
1578377;1481039148;mircea_popescu;that sucks.
1578378;1481039170;mircea_popescu;anyway, you should prolly go through your inventory and hold a garage sale / auction. prices changed a lot since a year ago
1578379;1481039192;jurov;ok
1578380;1481039536;shinohai;I had nearly all my stuff in claims until I found out they vanish sporadically, so back to Electron it all went.
1578381;1481040185;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/a-collection-of-distinctions/#comment-120002 << mega-thread continued
1578382;1481040996;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/TzZnb << moar re: the crispy critters from earlier thread
1578383;1481041392;phf;this happens to squats all the time, but i don't think that the fatalities are as high in civilized world, because people tend to understand what they get into when they squat. sucks, because it's likely to make getting warehouses for legitimate use trickier in the future
1578384;1481041414;trinque;asciilifeform: suppose vectored sigs exist, and having provided a weasel route through V, nobody ever actually swears to an item in full.
1578385;1481041447;asciilifeform;trinque: then these same weasels, revealed to be weasels, don't get ticket to mircea_popescu's mars ship
1578386;1481041452;asciilifeform;as described in his reply
1578387;1481041468;asciilifeform;weasels are not created by weasel-routes.
1578388;1481041499;asciilifeform;nor are men created from idiot chickens via wing-clipping
1578389;1481041509;trinque;no, but it invites them to the party
1578390;1481041539;mircea_popescu;i r writing a reply fwiw.
1578391;1481041542;asciilifeform;they invite themselves to every party, neh?
1578392;1481041677;phf;i know a guy who lives in a shipping container (actually mutliple shipping containers welded together) in that area, but he built it himself, he works with steel and propane and is generally a competent person (he lives on his shop grounds). when i read the story i though maybe a warehouse rave caught on fire, but apparently the idiots were living there? it'll just make the authorities take a closer look at oakland warehouses and fuck
1578393;1481041678;phf;things up for not idiots
1578394;1481041880;asciilifeform;phf: the funny bit is: if fire safety laws were to be enforced in usa, most if not all of the suburban idiotboxes would be condemned and bulldozed
1578395;1481041903;asciilifeform;they are made of cardboard, of paper, and burn like old newspaper, regularly
1578396;1481041923;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzAXbebWEAE4riS.jpg  <<< lulz (+10 for accuracy )
1578397;1481041934;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/missouri-governor-elects-wife-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-saint-louis/ << Qntra - Missouri Governor Elect's Wife Robbed At Gunpoint In Saint Louis
1578398;1481041986;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: This is why electric code now includes puzzles like "arc fault" circuit breaker.
1578399;1481041991;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform answer't.
1578400;1481042043;*;asciilifeform reads.
1578401;1481042733;diana_coman;fwiw I kept trying to digest asciilifeform's proposed categories, but I must confess I would still have trouble deciding on one or another; basically my clear categories would really be binary: I'm USING this or I WILL NOT USE this; the rest I would rather expect to be sorted by competence meaning that one who wants to write a patch for eulora would better get a "I'm using this" from someone involved with eulora, not from his t
1578402;1481042733;diana_coman;eacher of computer science, no matter how great/capable that teacher might be
1578403;1481042761;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: answr'd
1578404;1481042775;asciilifeform;diana_coman: he had a point, only 1 bit is really machine-usable
1578405;1481043030;mircea_popescu;diana_coman that part, of "who", is kinda baked in the design as it is, because of the .seals
1578406;1481043048;trinque;and the -1 doesn't undermine the opposability with "eh, I never actually read this" and etc
1578407;1481043069;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform back atcha.
1578408;1481043227;asciilifeform;trinque: expand plox
1578409;1481043506;trinque;the signed curse would be stood by in court / at the gallows, whereas something like "I am responsible for some of this" is what, the part that killed my goat, or "always not that part" ?
1578410;1481043509;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: answr'd2
1578411;1481043535;asciilifeform;trinque: proposed vectorizer concerned ~texts~, not facts
1578412;1481043546;asciilifeform;'the picture of the pipe,' if you will, not the pipe.
1578413;1481043604;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578290 << for completeness sake, i'm not sure if what is done here multiple times a day is the thing he meant, i.e.: key verification :/
1578414;1481043604;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 14:23 mircea_popescu: "I never ever ever successfully used the WoT to validate a public key." ie what we do here multiple times a day ?
1578415;1481043618;trinque;point being the "I am responsible for some" becomes meaningless because no one will ever be pinned down by that.
1578416;1481043732;mircea_popescu;Framedragger "using the wot to validate a public key".
1578417;1481043745;mircea_popescu;seems this is exactly defined as "get X's key from Y you trust". observe :
1578418;1481043747;mircea_popescu;!!key Framedragger
1578419;1481043750;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/vMWvd/?raw=true
1578420;1481043762;mircea_popescu;!#s "!!key"
1578421;1481043763;a111;62 results for "\"!!key\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22!!key%22
1578422;1481043768;mircea_popescu;62 times.
1578423;1481043778;Framedragger;and how the hell do you know that what thing-calling-self-deedbot gave you over fleanode is thing-you-requested?
1578424;1481043793;mircea_popescu;not only is it done, and done tons, contrary to his "never" : but it is eminently administrable and accountable, as i just proved.
1578425;1481043812;mircea_popescu;Framedragger because if it isn't, X will complain.
1578426;1481043826;mircea_popescu;that's what WOT-verified even means!
1578427;1481043891;Framedragger;hmm. i mean, sure, it just.. seems awfully promisetronic, to peruse local lingo.
1578428;1481043902;Framedragger;"X will complain some time maybe"
1578429;1481043915;mircea_popescu;"promisetronic" in the sense of "not rippletronic/ethereumtronic/etc" is a good thing.
1578430;1481043937;Framedragger;oh, sure, i understand that the scheme as currently implemented *actually works* :p
1578431;1481043950;trinque;as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
1578432;1481043958;trinque;wouldn't be appropriate to approach that ad hoc
1578433;1481043969;mircea_popescu;^
1578434;1481043977;mircea_popescu;once gossipd, this objection entirely vanishes.
1578435;1481044060;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: but what oftentimes ends up happening when you request key from deedbot is that the requester then promptly uses that key to encrypt $text, and ping recipient with a public url to $text. the fact that there's been no mitm, i think, only shows that the lizards do not find this place important enough (for better or worse, etc)
1578436;1481044069;Framedragger;suresure. awaiting godot!
1578437;1481044071;Framedragger;(i kid)
1578438;1481044139;mircea_popescu;Framedragger what happens when you go to a bar and order a drink is that the bartender pours you a drink.
1578439;1481044147;mircea_popescu;you see this as an argument against bars ?
1578440;1481044150;mircea_popescu;bar fraud ?
1578441;1481044163;mircea_popescu;the reason is that large scale crime syndicates don't... think bars important enough ?
1578442;1481044167;Framedragger;hmh. i guess it counts as "key verification" then. hm
1578443;1481044212;mircea_popescu;see, allowing a well tailored pyramid of risk eating is not bad. it's good.
1578444;1481044220;mircea_popescu;maybe i have a really important message and i send it 2nd, what.
1578445;1481044224;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578425 << what if the result is that X is dead ?
1578446;1481044224;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 17:03 mircea_popescu: Framedragger because if it isn't, X will complain.
1578447;1481044226;mircea_popescu;maybe what you see is just a decoy. etc etc.
1578448;1481044232;asciilifeform;so far the sappers have gotten to err >1ce
1578449;1481044235;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ytou can't talk to dead xen
1578450;1481044237;asciilifeform;this may not always hold.
1578451;1481044247;asciilifeform;point is that you don't always get a gossptronic takeback.
1578452;1481044261;asciilifeform;what if the decision to launch rockets or not has to be made based on signature NOW ?
1578453;1481044277;mircea_popescu;then the whole thing was badly designed and whoever deserves to lose.
1578454;1481044282;mircea_popescu;now is no part of strategy.
1578455;1481044295;asciilifeform;unrewindable 'nows' are part of physical reality.
1578456;1481044323;Framedragger;(this whole "request key before i encipher" seems weird to me at any rate. store the keys, have some out-of-band way of verifying them, and use them when needed. but i understand that the current mechanism is useful, and iirc i must have used it myself, even)
1578457;1481044367;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it is quite impossible to meaningfully cryptographicate with a stranger
1578458;1481044395;mircea_popescu;Framedragger it's "request keys before relationship"
1578459;1481044401;mircea_popescu;everything starts somewhere.
1578460;1481044433;phf;i think key reliance here is very much ~wot~ very similar to how otc used to operate. i.e. if there's no identity outside of key, then key-identity-trust are all tied together. nobody sends anybody sensitive command/control/comm without knowing them first. i had a version of asciilifeform's key for years, and my knowledge of asciilifeform was build on multiple verifications of asciikey-asciilifeform-rating entity
1578461;1481044446;Framedragger;right, right. it just appears that !!key is being used for established relationships, too. but, again, i guess, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578425 etc
1578462;1481044446;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 17:03 mircea_popescu: Framedragger because if it isn't, X will complain.
1578463;1481044459;mircea_popescu;Framedragger give an example ?
1578464;1481044520;Framedragger;hm. i could be wrong. maybe http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569436 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-28#1549905 ?
1578465;1481044520;a111;Logged on 2016-11-18 01:06 asciilifeform: !!key BingoBoingo
1578466;1481044520;a111;Logged on 2016-09-28 20:31 shinohai: !!key thestringpuller
1578467;1481044545;Framedragger;(i guess WoT trust had been simply deferred to deedbot until those points in time, etc)
1578468;1481044547;mircea_popescu;1st seems more like spot check and 2nd i'm not sure the two did have a prior relationship
1578469;1481044569;asciilifeform;ftr it was a spot check, i had existing copy of BingoBoingo's key
1578470;1481044573;asciilifeform;(they matched)
1578471;1481044591;mircea_popescu;Framedragger understand, it makes 0 difference that you "exist" in the sense of, have a tight relationship with your gf. existence is solipsistic, you exist to X once X bothers to get your key.
1578472;1481044599;shinohai;I didn't have a prior copy of thestringpuller 's key in that instance.
1578473;1481044876;Framedragger;kk.
1578474;1481044882;asciilifeform;94.50.199.25 - - [06/Dec/2016:17:19:17 +0000] "GET /.bash_profile HTTP/1.1" 404 1014 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.0.1) Gecko/2008070208 Firefox/3.0.1" "-"  [ snipped bunch of very very similar ] << lel
1578475;1481044901;Framedragger;A for effort?
1578476;1481044909;asciilifeform;GET /.secret << where does this even exist
1578477;1481044914;mircea_popescu;heh
1578478;1481044917;trinque;aim moar www at home directories!
1578479;1481044933;asciilifeform;GET /.private << lel
1578480;1481044956;mircea_popescu;dude wtf, isn't all www run off a "public_html" or similar homedir ?
1578481;1481044963;Framedragger;i bet `GET /../../../../etc/passwd` still works often enough :p
1578482;1481044969;asciilifeform;normally these scripts make some logical sense
1578483;1481044975;mircea_popescu;Framedragger but passwd is encrypted neh ?
1578484;1481044979;asciilifeform;and correspond to obvious possible oopses
1578485;1481044988;asciilifeform;in his case, it's a bunch of wtf
1578486;1481045000;mircea_popescu;maybe he's from the future.
1578487;1481045009;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: ya but iirc folx have attempted to crack things, and maybe it was some shitty hashing scheme before? dunno. but i've seen similar in old logs
1578488;1481045011;asciilifeform;... or distant past
1578489;1481045022;mircea_popescu;afaik passwd encryption was strong.
1578490;1481045038;asciilifeform;neh, in classical times it was just salted hash
1578491;1481045042;asciilifeform;(today, often, also)
1578492;1481045043;mircea_popescu;afaik it was des ?
1578493;1481045062;phf;passwd didn't actually have passwords in it, encrypted or hashed, for many decades. even classical unixes have switched to shadow, which is usually not readable by anyone but root
1578494;1481045074;mircea_popescu;there is also that.
1578495;1481045099;asciilifeform;phf: you can still enumerate usernames with /etc/passwd, which i assume is the point of shooting in the dark at it
1578496;1481045119;asciilifeform;then you take your 100,000,001 leaked lusernames+pwhashes, the subset you bruteforced, and fire away
1578497;1481045121;Framedragger;ahyeah, i also remember reading about folx extracting /etc/shadow due to bad file permissions, god knows why
1578498;1481045169;phf;well shadow for a longest time was md5 hashed (on linuxes anyway), so there was a nice window where you could with some craftiness extract passwords out of it
1578499;1481045189;phf;!#s john the ripper
1578500;1481045189;a111;0 results for "john the ripper", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=john%20the%20ripper
1578501;1481045196;asciilifeform;it went exactly like 'brainwallet mining' goes today
1578502;1481045203;asciilifeform;sit and stab at your leisure
1578503;1481045260;asciilifeform;makes a fine party game, key in a pw and see if it corresponds to any of 100,000,001 hashed lusers
1578504;1481045302;phf;actually i'm wrong it's not even md5, it's a version of DES
1578505;1481045304;mircea_popescu;sounds like two-decade-legacy stuff
1578506;1481045383;phf;actually i'm wrong again, crypt takes special $id$salt$encrypted format, where id is 1/2/5/6 for md5/blowfish/sha256/sha512. on the box where i looked that up all the passwords are $1$
1578507;1481045401;mircea_popescu;ahahaha lmao
1578508;1481045439;phf;it's a glibc2 variant, i wonder what openbsd does..
1578509;1481045454;mircea_popescu;in other random words, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/derick-ion.jpg
1578510;1481045481;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dafuq's that
1578511;1481045519;mircea_popescu;"art".
1578512;1481045533;asciilifeform;fart
1578513;1481045603;phf;^ http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1638700_1280x720.jpg
1578514;1481045622;asciilifeform;gavin?!
1578515;1481045646;asciilifeform;or wait... is that the warehouse d00d
1578516;1481045733;mircea_popescu;phf ubuntu has a bunch of "rtkit:*:15016:0:99999:7:::"
1578517;1481045747;mircea_popescu;supposedly... * means "account disabled" and null means no pw needed.
1578518;1481045779;asciilifeform;kinda lulzy usgism that these flags are separate; rather like an auto with 4 instead of 1 brake pedals
1578519;1481045803;asciilifeform;all enemy needs to do is to flip 'disabled' bit off, while keeping 'no pw' bit...
1578520;1481045832;mircea_popescu;yeah not a very good scheme. anyway, convention is pw field uses $ver$pw, and i see ubuntu sets it to 6.
1578521;1481045838;mircea_popescu;ie sha512
1578522;1481045863;asciilifeform;wtf is even the point of a salt if it is kept in the same place as the hash
1578523;1481045888;mircea_popescu;which salt ?
1578524;1481045893;asciilifeform;load the salt into kernel ram on bootup via toggle switches.
1578525;1481045908;shinohai;lol
1578526;1481045909;asciilifeform;salt in general, in 'we hash pw with salt' schemes
1578527;1481045920;mircea_popescu;i think it's just a pw hash.
1578528;1481045954;mircea_popescu;(salt, it should be pointed out, is nonsense leftover from the "md5 is broken and that's ok" days. if your hash needs a salt you need a new hash.)
1578529;1481045963;phf;asciilifeform: i think it's specifically to prevent rainbow tables
1578530;1481045983;asciilifeform;idea isn't 'needs a salt' but that having a machine-local salt makes brute force exponentially more expensive regardless of what hash algo was used.
1578531;1481045986;phf;or what mp said
1578532;1481045986;asciilifeform;it is not per se a dumb idea.
1578533;1481046018;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally i intend to use this in eulora - have the privkey file encrypted, and have both a client-wide settable prefix and a password
1578534;1481046032;phf;also those flags are not separate, but in the same field. difference between "anyone can login" and "can
1578535;1481046043;mircea_popescu;"set this if you want only this machine to be able to run your account", long time a holy grail of high-value game accounts
1578536;1481046071;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: waiwat... what means 'only this machine'
1578537;1481046080;phf;"can't login" is literally one symbol. obviously i've seen that on compromised machines, somewhere in that large column of of id:*:... there would be a random system account with :: go look
1578538;1481046090;asciilifeform;anyone with your key, is you, runs your account, fucks your wives, etc
1578539;1481046101;mircea_popescu;only if they also have the game client you use.
1578540;1481046105;mircea_popescu;otherwise... your pw won't work.
1578541;1481046122;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought that the client src was published
1578542;1481046139;mircea_popescu;yes, but you'll be able to set the salt in config, is the point.
1578543;1481046152;asciilifeform;how does that differ from enter-the-pw ?
1578544;1481046173;asciilifeform;or does it reduce to pw that breaks into two pieces.
1578545;1481046175;mircea_popescu;that a keylogger won't find it.
1578546;1481046178;mircea_popescu;yes.
1578547;1481046184;asciilifeform;aah ok
1578548;1481046184;mircea_popescu;a better yubikei or such, if you prefer.
1578549;1481046189;asciilifeform;reasonable
1578550;1481046203;mircea_popescu;not some sort of genius thing ; but leaps anmd bounds above what eg blizzard offers.
1578551;1481046295;mircea_popescu;anyway ; still not entirely convinced as to WHAT to use to encrypt the eulora-privkey with.
1578552;1481046527;asciilifeform;brainkeyed rsa?
1578553;1481046566;mircea_popescu;uh.
1578554;1481046584;mircea_popescu;no i mean symmetric something.
1578555;1481046588;asciilifeform;well yes
1578556;1481046590;asciilifeform;abused rsa.
1578557;1481046592;mircea_popescu;same principle as bitcoin wallet.
1578558;1481046600;mircea_popescu;i was thinking maybe someone gets abused cs done in time.
1578559;1481046621;asciilifeform;( it is not clear to me that rsa-abused-as-symmetriccipher is in any way worse than to use the idiot usg ciphers. )
1578560;1481046628;asciilifeform;or it.
1578561;1481046631;asciilifeform;but same principle
1578562;1481046662;mircea_popescu;anyway - even if the client src is published - it will ship with pw_prefix = "" pw_suffix ="". if you edit these and recompile your pw won't work on stock or anyone else's client, and there's no rule you have to compile on the exact machine you use. you can keep the src in your safe and run object code.
1578563;1481046697;mircea_popescu;yes one could dissect it to find the cappers and fuck your pw, but this is a lot less easy than most anythingelse.
1578564;1481046735;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/oakland-warehouse-destroyed-by-artist-infestation/ << Qntra - Oakland Warehouse Destroyed By "Artist" Infestation
1578565;1481046782;mircea_popescu;game accounts from what i currently known are compromised through 1) "dude used password as a password", perhaps with debian-strengtheners as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-24#1558621 and 2) drive-by flash / activex / webshit exploit.
1578566;1481046782;a111;Logged on 2016-10-24 16:26 mircea_popescu: "Avoid easy selections, such as qwerty or password. If you want to pick an easy-to-remember but somewhat unique password, consider a variation of a word, such as a1rPl4nE for airplane."
1578567;1481046807;mircea_popescu;poor BingoBoingo is oppressed by a manifest news drought.
1578568;1481046828;shinohai;Last month was my driest since I started.
1578569;1481046861;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Seriously. "How the redditards live" made today's paper.
1578570;1481046864;asciilifeform;meanwhile: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/crate.jpg
1578571;1481046895;mircea_popescu;that looks a lot like a crate full of electronic parts.
1578572;1481047163;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Though Governor elect's wife robbed in "nice" part of StL is awful lulzy
1578573;1481047244;mircea_popescu;anyway, this is very lulzy because a VERY similar fire in bucharest resulted in a govt shuffle.
1578574;1481047260;mircea_popescu;!~google incendiu colectiv
1578575;1481047261;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Incendiul din clubul Colectiv - Wikipedia: <https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiul_din_clubul_Colectiv>; Colectiv nightclub fire - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fire>; UN AN DE LA TRAGEDIA DIN COLECTIV . Portretele celor 64 - Stiri: (1 more message)
1578576;1481047276;mircea_popescu;almost exactly  a year ago
1578577;1481047611;BingoBoingo;I await Twitter and startup creatures complaining about more street people.
1578578;1481047696;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/aussie-faces-investigation-after-defending-dog-from-viscious-roo-attack/ << Qntra - Aussie Faces Investigation After Defending Dog From Viscious Roo Attack
1578579;1481047747;BingoBoingo;!~later tell cazalla http://qntra.net/2016/12/aussie-faces-investigation-after-defending-dog-from-viscious-roo-attack/
1578580;1481047747;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1578581;1481047984;shinohai; It waz cazalla ... in the outback ... with a lead pipe.
1578582;1481051491;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577947 nop
1578583;1481051491;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 16:01 asciilifeform: mats ?
1578584;1481051537;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578394 not true, see e.g. pg8 of http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/news-and-research/fire-statistics/overall-fire-statistics/ostrends.pdf
1578585;1481051537;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 16:31 asciilifeform: phf: the funny bit is: if fire safety laws were to be enforced in usa, most if not all of the suburban idiotboxes would be condemned and bulldozed
1578586;1481051603;asciilifeform;mats: i strongly suspect that the vast tracts of UNINHABITED suburban shitboxes pull the overall fire stats downwards.
1578587;1481051609;asciilifeform;(they are typically kept without mains power)
1578588;1481051813;phf;meanwhile at asciilifeform's secret lair, http://68.media.tumblr.com/777c5ef9c401f1b5dc87e6b0d4a62331/tumblr_ohojvpsbsr1u3vseto1_500.jpg
1578589;1481051830;asciilifeform;lel i think that's mircea_popescu's lair
1578590;1481051839;asciilifeform;all that empty space!1111111
1578591;1481051864;mircea_popescu;meh, what's with the ugly costume.
1578592;1481053438;mircea_popescu;certainly high density overvalued property (ny, sf, etc) is unmaintained to standards.
1578593;1481053472;mircea_popescu;this is perpetually the case, the people who live in high density live there because they can't afford lower density ; but the needs of various countermeasures are greater the higher the density (exponentially).
1578594;1481053505;mircea_popescu;so if poorfag gets a dollar, he's much more likely to apply that dollar towards going further away from the high density rats nest than towards getting the very high density rats nest closer to habitable standard.
1578595;1481053515;mircea_popescu;and so the plague, and the great fire of london, and so on.
1578596;1481053539;asciilifeform;why mircea_popescu in buenos aires and not patagonia , then..?
1578597;1481053561;mircea_popescu;cheap low density is one way to put it.
1578598;1481053572;mircea_popescu;really, the notion that buenos aires is a CITY is ridiculous on its face.
1578599;1481053586;mircea_popescu;you realise it's about five times the size of new york ? it's a village.
1578600;1481053653;asciilifeform;why was new york 'compacted' as it was? it isn't as if there were no room to 'flatten' it
1578601;1481053684;mircea_popescu;because immigrants.
1578602;1481053714;asciilifeform;i.e. orcs who don't particularly care how densely packed ? and in b.a. they do..?
1578603;1481053745;mircea_popescu;as in, orcs flooded new york ; bereft of any means to do anything ; ended up in harlem.
1578604;1481053754;mircea_popescu;nazis flooded ba, with gold. moved out.
1578605;1481053987;BingoBoingo;Lettuce not forget to lol at "artists" thinking themselves better than the building trades
1578606;1481054039;mircea_popescu;plenty of those here as well.
1578607;1481055395;mircea_popescu;!!up Guest13734
1578608;1481055395;deedbot;Guest13734 voiced for 30 minutes.
1578609;1481055398;mircea_popescu;eh.
1578610;1481055401;mircea_popescu;!!up Guest73114
1578611;1481055401;deedbot;Guest73114 voiced for 30 minutes.
1578612;1481056116;mircea_popescu;in other views,  http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/against-the-hard-fork/
1578613;1481057741;asciilifeform;http://www.truthcoin.info/images/jeremy-rubin-affair.txt << i recall this! but had nfi how it ended
1578614;1481057803;mircea_popescu;in other lulz :
1578615;1481057812;mircea_popescu;!~google fiverr "may not be contacted at this time"
1578616;1481057812;phf;tmsr, the third group
1578617;1481057813;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: (Username) may not be contacted at this time - Fiverr Forum: <http://forum.fiverr.com/discussion/what-does-username-may-not-be-contacted-at-this-time-mean/>; what means " may not be contacted at this time "? - Fiverr Forum ...: <http://forum.fiverr.com/discussion/what-means-may-not-be-contacted-at-this-time/>; Alert!: Usermay not be contacted at this time . - Fiverr Forum ...: (1 more message)
1578618;1481057825;mircea_popescu;^ idiots managed to fuck up their site ; all links to answers are 404
1578619;1481057895;shinohai;Probably because they paid someone from fiverr to admin their servers! :D
1578620;1481057924;BingoBoingo;Fiverrception!
1578621;1481057935;mircea_popescu;lol!
1578622;1481057976;asciilifeform;still trying to harness small animals to pull cart, mircea_popescu ?
1578623;1481057980;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what do you mean "what came of it" ?
1578624;1481058024;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ah i assumed that the students were expelled, jailed
1578625;1481058057;mircea_popescu;no, no. more bezzle : the new jersey lawyers get to pretend like they ACHIEVED ; the eff get to pretend like they mattered ; the students get to pretend they were cool.
1578626;1481058062;mircea_popescu;they managed to sell the same apple three times.
1578627;1481058063;BingoBoingo;lol "But there’s something special about Comet Ping Pong, and it’s that distinctive character, sadly, that may have allowed the campaign against it to fester. Comet is, after all, D.C.’s weirdo pizza place."
1578628;1481058072;mircea_popescu;this is the true cause of us law prolixity / enforcement sparsity.
1578629;1481058135;BingoBoingo;"In the venue’s all-ages policy, a time-honored practice of radical inclusion in the D.C. punk scene, they see a cover for pedophilia."
1578630;1481058169;mircea_popescu;all age punk scene ? what the fuck ?
1578631;1481058187;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: interestingly, in so far as that type of joint goes, pedopizza is imho pretty good. i guess small chillunz make good pizza topping
1578632;1481058205;BingoBoingo;lol
1578633;1481058263;phf;in russia punk scene was also all age, you just showed up. here it means that everyone's allowed, but none's allowed to have fun
1578634;1481058270;mircea_popescu;salted fetus. like anchovies.
1578635;1481058272;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aaaah they plead, didn't they.
1578636;1481058293;mircea_popescu;phf i dunno wtf punk schene this is, but children were never allowed anywhere near, to my knowledge.
1578637;1481058300;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform butofcourse.
1578638;1481058363;phf;mircea_popescu: well, define children? an pissed tike in a dirty косуха could be of any age for all anybody cares. but certainly not in a sense of "child-friendly outing"
1578639;1481058386;mircea_popescu;enforced through the dual a) must be able to handle being punched b) must have tits approach.
1578640;1481058387;mircea_popescu;phf male children, you crack lightly nose bleeds / eyes leak.
1578641;1481058398;mircea_popescu;female children, no 2ndary sexual characteristics.
1578642;1481058483;mircea_popescu;im npot even aware people were allowed to be married ; let alone have children. really, punk fathers ?
1578643;1481058489;mircea_popescu;sounds like tales from the future.
1578644;1481058493;asciilifeform;buncha stimulating items in mircea_popescu's link btw. e.g., http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest
1578645;1481058535;asciilifeform;in so far as heathens go, this one is worth writing to imho
1578646;1481058600;mircea_popescu;pretty sure the guy reads the log with some sort of frequency.
1578647;1481058641;phf;"sorry-for-you-loss cutthroat meritocracy"
1578648;1481058689;phf;oh yeah, of course i remember it as "everyone was children", but there was a cutoff point. "younger brother" sort of thing
1578649;1481058723;asciilifeform;seems like he runs something that looks like an attempt at distributed-chickens bbet
1578650;1481058831;phf;dc punk scene reminds me of this story i read at some point by an отморозок trying to run some hustle in london. at some point he says he saw some suspiciously clean looking skinheads, so was about to go "how are you brothers" until he saw that the two were holding hands. after that he goes on a long rant about how london skinheads are all fags, etc.
1578651;1481058843;asciilifeform;( i suspect that this is one of those perpetuum mobile attractors that will continue to eat people more or less forever, this 'bbet reddit' thing )
1578652;1481058889;mircea_popescu;to my eyes the whole "social media" is running out of attraction juice, but what do i know.
1578653;1481059079;mircea_popescu;phf ironically punk (90s, romania) was uncharacteristically tolerant of faggotry. discreet, but present. "rockers" much less tolerant.
1578654;1481059111;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: This particular heathen iirc visited befor
1578655;1481059612;shinohai;http://archive.is/uNkYw   <<< Train your children young to accept others controlling their private keys
1578656;1481060865;mircea_popescu;"kids will virtual currency too" ? what is this, illiterate indians will preet as well ?
1578657;1481061164;phf;"The Disrupt Hackathon is a 24 Hour event preceding the annual Disrupt London conference organized by TechCrunch."
1578658;1481061211;mircea_popescu;pedophile old men like paul graham & friends used to CORRUPT the athenian youth
1578659;1481061215;mircea_popescu;apparently now they disrupt it.
1578660;1481061224;mircea_popescu;same cornhole tears result either way.
1578661;1481061247;mircea_popescu;but on the other side of the coin, "As you probably already know, but my trademark thoroughness still obliges me to say, AI stands for "Artificial Intelligence" and comes in two flavors, "deterministic" (like minmax) and "statistical" (like SVM). The combined efforts of various researches lead to an important breakthrough in this field, known to meteorologists as "the AI winter". This is the season when you can't get any VC m
1578662;1481061247;mircea_popescu;oney if you mention AI anywhere in your business plan."
1578663;1481061255;mircea_popescu;yosefk, eminently readable.
1578664;1481061957;mircea_popescu;"If the thing is even remotely close to "intelligent", you can no longer issue commands; you must explain yourself and ask for something and then it will misunderstand you." << he's wrong, incidentally. intelligent and obedient are not in any way orthogonal, a matter i have verified experimentally to my satisfaction.
1578665;1481061973;asciilifeform;he did say 'intelligent', rather than intelligent !1111
1578666;1481061990;asciilifeform;you can't buy intelligent at the comp shop.
1578667;1481061998;asciilifeform;(plenty of 'intelligent' tho)
1578668;1481062003;mircea_popescu;yes but if he is seriously contemplating a distinction along those lines his whole piece just exploded into unrelatable islands.
1578669;1481062026;mircea_popescu;as the idea is to make ai not a"i". THAT we already have.
1578670;1481062037;asciilifeform;the way i read it, he was talking about something like http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html .
1578671;1481062049;asciilifeform;'The error is that control interfaces must not be intelligent. Briefly, intelligent user interfaces should be limited to applications in which the user does not expect to control the behavior of the product. If the product is used as a tool, its interface should be as unintelligent as possible. Stupid is predictable; predictable is learnable; learnable is usable.'
1578672;1481062081;mircea_popescu;well it's also not clear the interface/drill bit dichotomy is supported by his piece.
1578673;1481062089;asciilifeform;!#s http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html
1578674;1481062089;a111;4 results for "http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=http%3A%2F%2Funqualified-reservations.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F07%2Fwolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html
1578675;1481062091;asciilifeform;^ thread.
1578676;1481062129;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which yosefk piece was this btw..?
1578677;1481062148;mircea_popescu;http://yosefk.com/blog/ai-problems.html
1578678;1481062185;mircea_popescu;i must confes : that i am not sufficiently an idealist to presume some sort of "human-brain-substance" that's somehow irreproducible in any other paradigm than via cunt-perl.
1578679;1481062205;mircea_popescu;i guess in his terms this makes me an ai weenie. you know, like hofstadter.
1578680;1481062242;asciilifeform;there are 2 types of ai skeptic, the 'vitalists' ('immortal soul') and the 'shambling horror of computer', 'we don't even know how to make a spreadshit that dun crash' folk.
1578681;1481062247;asciilifeform;asciilifeform is the 2nd type
1578682;1481062270;mircea_popescu;i can grant that ai is a psychiatric issue of plenty of computer programmers ; i can even grant that it is perhaps best to pretend like ai is "impossible" in the sense he means to perhaps cure the idiots.
1578683;1481062280;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/liberal-west-today-merkel-announces-burqa-ban/ << Qntra - "Liberal" West Today: Merkel Announces Burqa Ban
1578684;1481062286;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the brain is a shambling horror of cells.
1578685;1481062310;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nobody has any fucking idea how to replicate the fault-tolerance of meat, afaik.
1578686;1481062330;asciilifeform;hell, we don't even have a working ornithopter, and the problem is, what, 800+ yrs old as posed.
1578687;1481062333;mircea_popescu;understand that in order for the cunt to work, you don't have to understand its parts and mechanisms. iraqi "elite forces" use bridges and cartridges just fine even though they evidently can't make either.
1578688;1481062360;mircea_popescu;people who believe in immaculate conception manage to reproduce just fine etc.
1578689;1481062420;asciilifeform;that's not the issue; airplane worked just fine but was not adequately explained in physical terms until '50s (and if you are a stickler for rigour, even today)
1578690;1481062430;mircea_popescu;quite.
1578691;1481062431;asciilifeform;(see also von karman.)
1578692;1481062435;mircea_popescu;"explain turbulence" etc.
1578693;1481062462;mircea_popescu;now then : the issue of arbitrarily hard ai existing / being produced is separate of same being produced ~by you~. for any definition of you.
1578694;1481062488;asciilifeform;( likewise the workings of, e.g., a FET, are quite different from what digital engineer learns in school, and ~nobody designs ~anything using the actual equations as understood by maxwell et al )
1578695;1481062498;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: quite correct
1578696;1481062511;asciilifeform;we already know 1 method for producing it. just not yet - afaik - a 2nd.
1578697;1481062532;mircea_popescu;yet the rule says 0, 1, infinitits.
1578698;1481062540;asciilifeform;aha.
1578699;1481062572;mircea_popescu;but then again : the most hardcore anti-ai stance, and the one to which i vaguely subscribe, is to observe that the 1 is entirely illusory
1578700;1481062580;mircea_popescu;see the "your brain is not a thinking mechanism" discussions.
1578701;1481062589;asciilifeform;observation was not 'it is impossible', 'liek heavier-than-air flight!11111' but that none of the approaches ever tried afaik have led to anything of interest.
1578702;1481062640;mircea_popescu;yes, but the approaches "ever tried" have been "ever tried" in a short period of history which is chiefly distinguished by the incredible quality that NONE of the approaches tried, in ANY fields, worked to any degree or produced anything of interest.
1578703;1481062643;asciilifeform;the 1 piece you can 'take to the bank' is that it is idiocy to consider solutions to a problem that is not even actually defined.
1578704;1481062655;mircea_popescu;be they "how to run your household" or "how do do war and diplomacy" or anything else ABSOLUTELY.
1578705;1481062709;mircea_popescu;the "consumer" is not an answer to any valid question in socioeconomics ; the "unique" says nothing interesting of the http/html/web-of-blabla. and on it goes.
1578706;1481062759;mircea_popescu;the same 60-70 years that failed to produce anything woreth the mention in ai also failed to produce an even vaguely coherent model of the state, or of any sort of identity in any field, or of you pick it. not even their distribution models work.
1578707;1481062805;asciilifeform;there is not so much that was made that is worth remembering... the FET? RSA..?
1578708;1481062839;mircea_popescu;perhaps rsa. though i'm entirely unconvinced it's not to be found in medieval arithmetics.
1578709;1481062856;*;asciilifeform pictures archimedes's lost rsa
1578710;1481062864;trinque;it's entirely possible - and I think likely - that what counts for human intelligence does not run in a single human head
1578711;1481062889;mircea_popescu;we agree, hence my various stances on language and its effects.
1578712;1481062909;asciilifeform;'what is soldier's deadliest weapon'
1578713;1481062912;asciilifeform;'his radio'
1578714;1481062916;mircea_popescu;"shovel"
1578715;1481062926;asciilifeform;shovel - 2nd.
1578716;1481062932;mircea_popescu;(classical antiquity take on it - they didn't have radios)
1578717;1481062944;asciilifeform;they might have answered: 'bugle'
1578718;1481062968;mircea_popescu;anyway, the idea was similar - war is won by the shovel means same thing, that indirect effects drown out direct effects.
1578719;1481063076;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578710 << https://www.amazon.com/dp/1558605959 classic book on subj
1578720;1481063076;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 22:21 trinque: it's entirely possible - and I think likely - that what counts for human intelligence does not run in a single human head
1578721;1481063078;mircea_popescu;"i've never seen anything remotely as annoying as prolog, with the notable exception of makefiles, running on top of a wonderful inference engine of their own" << ahaha!
1578722;1481063101;trinque;ty phf
1578723;1481063139;asciilifeform;phf: i had earlier edition of iirc that thing (the one with the ants on the cover) at umd
1578724;1481063184;*;asciilifeform always pictured, when hearing phrase 'ant colony optimization', lowering the speaker into an anthill and asking him to please optimize! before he is eaten
1578725;1481063209;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1578726;1481063210;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 442245 | Current Difficulty: 2.867657668205504E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 443519 | Next Difficulty In: 1274 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1578727;1481063215;mircea_popescu;what do anthills supposedly optimize ?
1578728;1481063259;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: term referred to an algo where you have 10,000,001 simulated ants, or bees, etc., navigating your phase space and leaving 'pheromonal trails' for one another
1578729;1481063262;mircea_popescu;(this is my stock question to cut the new age-y idiots at the knees. "oh ant colony optimizes" "what ?". sooner or later they realise they can't actually SAY what the fuck it is, because it's not a scalar ; nor a vector nor a bitfield. yes they optimize something, now put it in a hard typed language. what is it ?)
1578730;1481063269;mircea_popescu;yes yes.
1578731;1481063287;phf;asciilifeform: i think the ant one is the algo book, where's eberhart is an overview
1578732;1481063531;jurov;ants supposedly optimize paths to food. but slime mold can do it too, without pheromone trails that have potential to make cycles
1578733;1481063567;mircea_popescu;jurov this "ants optimize paths to food" is like saying "trump won the election". o, really, he did ?
1578734;1481063605;mircea_popescu;it works as a retrospective, "looking at this anthill, it becomes evident it mostly managed to feed itself historically". yes. so... what.
1578735;1481063629;jurov;they could use drunk walk or quantum bogosort or something.. they don't
1578736;1481063641;phf;i think that's one of standard thinker childhood experiences, making a closed loop in the ant pheromone trail
1578737;1481063709;mircea_popescu;dropping the abstract for a concrete anecdote here :
1578738;1481063744;mircea_popescu;this country has a lot of foraging ant species. i enjoy watching them. on numerous occasions i have observed individual ant dragging acer type seed.
1578739;1481063755;mircea_popescu;the general impression is of an ant that decided to take up yachting
1578740;1481063774;mircea_popescu;the sail blows in the wind, topples it, the animal will happily spend half an hour spinning in a dime's area.
1578741;1481063792;mircea_popescu;you'd think they had wind back in 50`000`000 bc back when ants were a hot new gizmo.
1578742;1481063810;mircea_popescu;but apparently... the acer seed / wind combo hasn't needed any optimization or anything hence.
1578743;1481063810;asciilifeform;quite possibly that ant -- or that seed -- came with the spanish ?
1578744;1481063811;mircea_popescu;i dunno.
1578745;1481063812;asciilifeform;so perhaps not
1578746;1481063820;mircea_popescu;contradicts my naive expectations as to what "optimization" is.
1578747;1481063829;asciilifeform;the one thing it most definitely is, is very very slow.
1578748;1481063840;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what, so they didn't have samarae where the ant came from ?
1578749;1481063866;asciilifeform;i couldn't begin to hazard a guess. but - who knows - perhaps ~had~, but somehow not ant-compatible.
1578750;1481063881;mircea_popescu;how about we just agree that the data type of the optimized variable is not computable.
1578751;1481063894;asciilifeform;anyone recall those wasps ? the ones that can eat a beehive in 15 min. or so
1578752;1481063894;mircea_popescu;yes, they optimized. what ? von kaman's underpants, that's what.
1578753;1481063905;jurov;i can only guess neurons are too expensive and having extra to avoid above spinning is not...optimal
1578754;1481063914;asciilifeform;lethal to all bees but a species somewhere in jp, that knows the pill against the wasp (surround it, and kill with own head)
1578755;1481063915;asciilifeform;*heat
1578756;1481063917;asciilifeform;own heat.
1578757;1481063938;mircea_popescu;jurov yes, but the trouble is not only that your guess is not formal - it's that your guess is not formalizable.
1578758;1481063971;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what are your expectations of 'data type' ?
1578759;1481063984;mircea_popescu;pretend you're a programmer, and use yours.
1578760;1481063995;asciilifeform;then i say 'function'
1578761;1481063997;mircea_popescu;you know, data type. that i can put in an ada-like manual and write a compiler for.
1578762;1481064005;mircea_popescu;lol function. oookay.
1578763;1481064017;asciilifeform;takes inputs from the beast's sensory organs and gives outputs for its locomotive organs.
1578764;1481064020;asciilifeform;(e.g., wings)
1578765;1481064039;mircea_popescu;and the anthill optimizes for the ... pointer to the function which is... the element of the anthill ?
1578766;1481064054;mircea_popescu;what's this, "i'll make sure the turing machine don't ever stop, i'm having too much fun" ?
1578767;1481064081;asciilifeform;anthill, if said to optimize for something (and this is at least mildly sinful, somewhat like describing the operation of a submarine as 'swimming') optimizes for energy/food ROI.
1578768;1481064136;trinque;if it were optimizing solely for energy it would be better off not existing
1578769;1481064156;asciilifeform;trinque: there are nonexistent anthills everywhere around you!1111 even in your nostril
1578770;1481064158;jurov;maximize biomass of the species?
1578771;1481064165;asciilifeform;these are the most successful, if you permit division by 0...
1578772;1481064193;mircea_popescu;anyway - the reason the yaching ant is such a good example is because - it COULD just fucking cut off the god damned sail. couldn't it ? just drag the seed without the air drag ?
1578773;1481064210;jurov;anyway, if it's not optimization, what does mircea_popescu call the its-not-doing-drunk-walk phenomenon?
1578774;1481064211;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: examples like your ant abound. consider the infamous sphex wasp
1578775;1481064224;mircea_popescu;jurov i call it being an ant.
1578776;1481064234;mircea_popescu;there's no requirement that the world makes sense in my categories, see.
1578777;1481064241;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform tru.
1578778;1481064295;mircea_popescu;"anthill optimizes for anthood" is a very true if not particularly useful statement. and the type of "anthood" variable could be... "anthillyness".
1578779;1481064302;mircea_popescu;and wo and behold, we're about to reinvent wikipedia.
1578780;1481064325;jurov;"could fucking cut off the sail" is formalizable but "having extra neurons to be able to do so" is not?
1578781;1481064337;trinque;can't really said to be optimal, just that various other anthills were less so
1578782;1481064351;mircea_popescu;jurov ah, mine's not formalizable either!
1578783;1481064383;mircea_popescu;trinque this doesn't explain why ants aren't like trilobytes see. most species are extinct, ants are uniquelly successful at the game of life.
1578784;1481064424;asciilifeform;on long enough scale, everybody's trilobyte.
1578785;1481064430;trinque;maybe, maybe not
1578786;1481064450;trinque;at any rate the AI thing is exactly "discover the meaning of life"
1578787;1481064451;mircea_popescu;except things like dog vomit, or the previously discussed black alcohol modl. they've been here fopr a long long time now.
1578788;1481064478;asciilifeform;they can't breathe red dwarf any moar than trilobyte can.
1578789;1481064504;trinque;might be entirely natural to fart around on a planet for a while then get knocked by some rock onto the next one
1578790;1481064516;trinque;who said those molecules give a shit about you
1578791;1481064523;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's some possibility their spores made it out into outer space.
1578792;1481064528;mircea_popescu;the spores are EXTRMEELY hardy.
1578793;1481064551;asciilifeform;everybody is fond of 'space spores' but so far 0 clues re a 2nd place where they might work.
1578794;1481064560;mircea_popescu;sure ; but they've got time.
1578795;1481064598;asciilifeform;btw it might be possible to approximate ~how much time~
1578796;1481064600;mircea_popescu;there's planets with wild volcanoes of ethylene in our very solar system. red dwarf may make them rather pleasant.
1578797;1481064611;asciilifeform;a kind of mean-time-to-collision-with-energetic-particle-that-smashes-you
1578798;1481064618;asciilifeform;(you being spore)
1578799;1481064672;asciilifeform;folx putter around with crackpotteries like proton decay, but imho this is a more interesting number
1578800;1481064702;mircea_popescu;could be.
1578801;1481064729;asciilifeform;(if you're something like a, e.g., deinococcus radiodurans , assume it takes >1 bullet. some finite number.)
1578802;1481064759;mircea_popescu;the energies required may indeed be very high.
1578803;1481064769;mircea_popescu;as per the "man breaks, horse splashes" theorem.
1578804;1481064802;asciilifeform;planet3, iirc, gets a particle with energy of well-thrown brick every day or so.
1578805;1481064805;mircea_popescu;but afaik nobody has done serious work on "order species by spore resistance to proton beam illumination".
1578806;1481064811;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually!
1578807;1481064817;mircea_popescu;which should prolly be a decent grant topic for the curious.
1578808;1481064821;asciilifeform;but i suppose it'd depend on what means 'serious work'
1578809;1481064831;mircea_popescu;i dunno, output a list of 10k items ?
1578810;1481064838;asciilifeform;but 20th c. megaempires obsessively irradiated various living things, to see what comes of it.
1578811;1481064849;asciilifeform;neutrons, electrons, gamma, you name it
1578812;1481064869;mircea_popescu;if they did produce anything useful in the above vein i've never seen it.
1578813;1481064880;asciilifeform;su was obsessed with 'radioprotector'
1578814;1481064899;asciilifeform;afaik very little came of it, other than substance that induces certain side effect - gigantism in mammals
1578815;1481064929;asciilifeform;(housecat that grows to german shepherd size, other side-show attractions)
1578816;1481064929;mircea_popescu;in general they were directed at "interesting" things which didn't include fungi
1578817;1481064946;asciilifeform;fungi also. radiosterilization is a thing
1578818;1481064952;asciilifeform;and industrially lucrative
1578819;1481064968;mircea_popescu;yes, but there's a very few fungi that are industrially relevant
1578820;1481064973;asciilifeform;now this --- yes.
1578821;1481064975;mircea_popescu;most aren't interested in your frozen tv dinner.
1578822;1481064979;asciilifeform;correct.
1578823;1481064993;mircea_popescu;which is why i say, not much seriouys work done on the actual topic.
1578824;1481064999;mircea_popescu;governments, turns out, tend to waste their resources.
1578825;1481065070;mircea_popescu;(actually, for they reading to educate : most fungi live in more or less mutualistic relationships with lichens ; a few with trees, which are advancedlichens)
1578826;1481065076;asciilifeform;what, in the eyes of mircea_popescu , would count as 'serious result' in subj field ??
1578827;1481065082;mircea_popescu;<mircea_popescu> i dunno, output a list of 10k items ? <
1578828;1481065101;asciilifeform;is there even 10k known species of fungus ?
1578829;1481065104;mircea_popescu;there's a good few millions of species ; 10k would be a negligible dent.
1578830;1481065106;mircea_popescu;yes.
1578831;1481065114;asciilifeform;good student project!111!!!
1578832;1481065134;mircea_popescu;they are some of the most diverse biota, possibly 5  to 50mn different species.
1578833;1481065964;mircea_popescu;and to round off the "fungi are interesting" general literacy thread - the way most (and the most) poisonous mushrooms work is through a substance that inhibits extremely selectively rna polymerase 2. this makes the affected cells unable to reproduce, and hence the "eat destroying angel, get cramps/diarhea in three days, drop dead in 7" effect.
1578834;1481066028;mircea_popescu;since recently dna understanding improved significantly, and the workings of the immune system, esp in its binding functions, became more understood ; and since complex molecule synthesis muchly developed as well, a universal cure for cancer based on the principle of getting alpha-amanitin bound to a specific tumour cell seeking protein seems altogether very feasible.
1578835;1481066076;mircea_popescu;there's been various successful tests, including prostate-cancer-rat achieving complete remission through 1 iv application. so we have maybe 50-50 chances to see a ~general~ cure for cancer within our lifetime.
1578836;1481066109;mircea_popescu;which is the deep reason for a major redistribution of research resources from other fashionable causes to cancer in thepast decade, as cartman aptly observed.
1578837;1481066167;mircea_popescu;(general here means exactly the same it does when i say we have a general cure for infection. it's not that nobody can die of infections ; but that there's antibiotics, which mostly work.)
1578838;1481066178;asciilifeform;eh pretty much every half-useful attempt at cancer has been 'bind $poison to $selector'
1578839;1481066184;mircea_popescu;aha.
1578840;1481066249;asciilifeform;only semi-relatedly, rat models have a very obvious (to outsider) problem, that academitards pretend is not problem at all
1578841;1481066266;asciilifeform;(inbred to the point of tumouring 'when you look at them sideways')
1578842;1481066300;mircea_popescu;well... gotta model on something.
1578843;1481066301;asciilifeform;which accounts for heroic 'cures', their cancers would last 3 seconds in a healthy organism
1578844;1481066312;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> eh pretty much every half-useful attempt at cancer has been 'bind $poison to $selector' << That's essentially all of pharmacology. X fucks Y receptor
1578845;1481066326;asciilifeform;it is largely why virtually no 'rat hero' substance ever leaves the rat lab.
1578846;1481066338;asciilifeform;(typically it does ~0 in people)
1578847;1481066343;mircea_popescu;yes, but the models sometimes do.
1578848;1481066368;mircea_popescu;anyway, i dun recall the specifics but i think this may have been grafted not endogenous
1578849;1481066387;asciilifeform;grafted?! even 'better'
1578850;1481066754;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the poison part was never the difficulty -- e.g., ricin, is even more specific 'cellular' poison
1578851;1481066766;asciilifeform;rather, the 'guidance system' is.
1578852;1481066874;asciilifeform;it isn't even entirely clear that 'is this a tumour cell?' is a computable function.
1578853;1481066932;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1578854;1481068806;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578646 << he's aware of it, and he lives near me
1578855;1481068806;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 21:10 mircea_popescu: pretty sure the guy reads the log with some sort of frequency.
1578856;1481068812;mircea_popescu;!!up zKawaiiKittyz
1578857;1481068813;deedbot;zKawaiiKittyz voiced for 30 minutes.
1578858;1481069119;zKawaiiKittyz;:O
1578859;1481069130;zKawaiiKittyz;hi, im new :#
1578860;1481069161;zKawaiiKittyz;to life O_O
1578861;1481069197;mircea_popescu;what do you do ?
1578862;1481069202;BingoBoingo;Who is your daddy and what does he do?
1578863;1481069207;mircea_popescu;or that.
1578864;1481069215;zKawaiiKittyz;xD
1578865;1481069231;zKawaiiKittyz;this is confusing, or maybe im not that smart XD
1578866;1481069272;zKawaiiKittyz;Jk, I came here for special purposes, nothing more :3
1578867;1481069331;BingoBoingo;But introductions help make the world go round. Let's play a game. It's called Who is your daddy and what does he do?
1578868;1481069383;zKawaiiKittyz;What does that even mean?
1578869;1481069400;BingoBoingo;It's a simple question.
1578870;1481069419;trinque;"No one has ever asked me who I am before."
1578871;1481069446;BingoBoingo;http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/16/kindergarten-cop-2-trailer
1578872;1481069572;BingoBoingo;I am the party pooper.
1578873;1481069645;BingoBoingo;Anyways zKawaiiKittyz Here's a sample way to anwer the question: "My dad's a gynecologist, he looks at vaginas all day long"
1578874;1481069687;trinque;same name is some kind of spam account on twitter
1578875;1481069779;zKawaiiKittyz;who's name?
1578876;1481069815;trinque;why, yours!
1578877;1481069843;zKawaiiKittyz;another person copied me :(
1578878;1481069857;zKawaiiKittyz;this has been a rising problem I've noticed -_-
1578879;1481069885;shinohai;A problem solved quite well by following the instructions within these hallowed walls.
1578880;1481069922;zKawaiiKittyz;?
1578881;1481069933;BingoBoingo;!!help
1578882;1481069933;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html
1578883;1481069939;trinque;and the topic
1578884;1481069987;zKawaiiKittyz;Well I can asue you I have no twitter with this name xD
1578885;1481070021;trinque;so far your output has not differentiated yourself from it.
1578886;1481070036;BingoBoingo;We don't even know if there is a you!
1578887;1481070064;zKawaiiKittyz;I'm so confused, What did I do wrong?
1578888;1481070118;jurov;you are unable to say who/what are you :)
1578889;1481070119;BingoBoingo;You never answered one of "Who are you" or "Who is your Daddy and what does he do?" Pick a question and answer it.
1578890;1481070146;zKawaiiKittyz;oh, I'm a cat xD
1578891;1481070173;zKawaiiKittyz;:)
1578892;1481070173;jurov;male or female?
1578893;1481070177;zKawaiiKittyz;genderless
1578894;1481070180;*;trinque finger hovers over the button
1578895;1481070187;*;mats coughs
1578896;1481070198;shinohai;Well at least he's not a tulpa.
1578897;1481070198;zKawaiiKittyz;?
1578898;1481070200;asciilifeform;is this another eulora dirt-digger or what were those called
1578899;1481070205;*;BingoBoingo calls on Dog
1578900;1481070217;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is this one of yours ?
1578901;1481070220;trinque;!!down zKawaiiKittyz
1578902;1481070224;danielpbarron;typical n00b job is ord builder
1578903;1481070246;trinque;"the internet is a place I make inane noises with other creatures to soothe myself"
1578904;1481070257;trinque;got enough of those in logs
1578905;1481070297;mircea_popescu;not afaik.
1578906;1481070298;asciilifeform;and everybody knows there is no such beast as genderless cat !!
1578907;1481070316;mircea_popescu;it's impossible to know, apparently the "hello i am joe of clan moe" is no longer taught in primary school.
1578908;1481070743;mircea_popescu;but that said, i could use some new players.
1578909;1481071433;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-november-2016-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), November 2016 Statement
1578910;1481073549;asciilifeform;http://i.imgur.com/uByC0cK.jpg << in other...wtf
1578911;1481073680;mircea_popescu;prolly art.
1578912;1481077584;mircea_popescu;!!up EDLionX
1578913;1481077584;deedbot;EDLionX voiced for 30 minutes.
1578914;1481077719;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576190 << dude... this thing...
1578915;1481077719;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 11:32 Framedragger: totally recommend it, even if my film-recommendation-credit has run dry
1578916;1481077737;mircea_popescu;i've never seen more reluctant male even among the actual mongoloids.
1578917;1481078305;mircea_popescu;EDLionX so who might you be ?
1578918;1481078316;EDLionX;oh hey
1578919;1481078342;EDLionX;im just trying to import me gpg to deedbot
1578920;1481078349;EDLionX;but its confusing the heck outta me
1578921;1481078390;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-17#1568554 << like that.
1578922;1481078390;a111;Logged on 2016-11-17 02:05 RodrigoBTC: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/po1v0/?raw=true
1578923;1481078513;EDLionX;oh man thats even more condusing
1578924;1481078523;EDLionX;im submitting my key to deebot
1578925;1481078530;EDLionX;but it keeps telling me this:
1578926;1481078537;EDLionX;Import failed for EDLionX.
1578927;1481078545;mircea_popescu;what are you saying to it ?
1578928;1481078580;EDLionX;!!register ----
1578929;1481078580;deedbot;EDLionX is already registered.
1578930;1481078584;EDLionX;oh what
1578931;1481078588;EDLionX;that worked
1578932;1481078593;EDLionX;and i had no idea how
1578933;1481078593;mircea_popescu;!!key EDLionX
1578934;1481078600;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/ucCLf/?raw=true
1578935;1481078606;EDLionX;!!key EDLionX
1578936;1481078608;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/FfofN/?raw=true
1578937;1481078618;mircea_popescu;ok so there you go.
1578938;1481078623;EDLionX;ok cool
1578939;1481078649;EDLionX;thanks m8
1578940;1481078660;mircea_popescu;don't mention it. so how is brunei ?
1578941;1481078678;EDLionX;huh
1578942;1481078684;EDLionX;now howd u know where im from
1578943;1481078694;EDLionX;its fine
1578944;1481078698;EDLionX;very hot though
1578945;1481078700;mircea_popescu;magic and skills and shit
1578946;1481078719;EDLionX;dayum
1578947;1481079089;shinohai;Lulziest headline of today "Pablo Escobar's former hitman robbed in Medellin"
1578948;1481083857;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/55CD9F30ACFFAF6583F74987FBF4CC60F05BF7145C543061E9F49F1C7DB83443 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1466...3029 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.174.78.171 (ssh-rsa key from 79.174.78.171 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (5429.ovz-ssd9.hc.ru. RU)
1578949;1481084099;asciilifeform;http://79.174.78.171 << lul
1578950;1481084126;asciilifeform;'Производитель перегородок «Орман» является ярким участником отечественного рынка современных конструкций, позволяющих отлично дополнить интерьеры офисных, частных и общественных помещений.'
1578951;1481084152;asciilifeform;cube farms to order!1111
1578952;1481088387;ben_vulpes;phf, jurov: thank you
1578953;1481088482;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: is there an argument for vetoing out-of-hand a v/patch implementation that diffs at the sexpr level rather than the line level?
1578954;1481089918;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/circle-exits-bitcoinfiat-exchange-business/ << Qntra - Circle Exits Bitcoin/Fiat Exchange Business
1578955;1481092442;BingoBoingo;In other fronts of Judaism vs Islam https://www.thefix.com/sugar-daddies-vs-recovery
1578956;1481101445;ben_vulpes;https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/12/6/milking-the-iphone << nowhere mentioned "fancy-ass nixy laptops for hipster-ass rorbros"
1578957;1481105305;Framedragger;BingoBoingo: in the merkel article, s/Germans having been taking/Germans have been taking/  ? :)
1578958;1481113087;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo that link dun werk! https://archive.is/lzImt
1578959;1481113252;jurov;ben_vulpes: i'd definitely like to see such thing. otherwise i don't get this obsession with marking stuff "halal" and "haram".
1578960;1481113322;jurov;and preemptively, even more so.
1578961;1481113455;mircea_popescu;i have nfi who beil cybart is ; but the article in question is spun copy, a notch under of the conceptual value of fanfiction and about on par with wikipedia articles.
1578962;1481113522;mircea_popescu;anyway ; intel knows him, "one of the more accurate predictors of apple's earnings" ; guy's been announcing "apple building new company" bla bla for a year
1578963;1481113560;mircea_popescu;more's the point : whatcha mean with the haram halal thing jurov ?
1578964;1481113597;jurov;that everything must be categorized as forbidden or allowed
1578965;1481113626;mircea_popescu;isn't this fundamentally the work of intelligence ?
1578966;1481113677;jurov;if it works for you, cool. every time i tried to forbid somehing, turned out I was the fool.
1578967;1481113689;mircea_popescu;well, but did you have a reasoning behind it ?
1578968;1481113697;shinohai;We forbid you to forbid things.
1578969;1481113709;mircea_popescu;c'est interdit a interdire lol.
1578970;1481113761;jurov;what reasoning? on basis of experience, i concluded it won't work
1578971;1481113772;mircea_popescu;ok, and so then when it did you learned something.
1578972;1481113866;jurov;There's also possibility I misunderstood ben_vulpes, ofc.
1578973;1481113898;mircea_popescu;well... what was he declaring haram ? i'm confused on that part.
1578974;1481113905;jurov;he asked us to
1578975;1481113913;mircea_popescu;ok, but what ?
1578976;1481113932;jurov;"vetoing out-of-hand a v/patch implementation that diffs at the sexpr level rather than the line level"
1578977;1481113966;mircea_popescu;ahahaha i thought you meant that apple pr piece, i was totally lost here.
1578978;1481113998;mircea_popescu;well, technically he asked alf, so there is that. none of our bidnis :D
1578979;1481114010;jurov;heh
1578980;1481115958;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/lQY71/?raw=true
1578981;1481115958;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1578982;1481116985;mircea_popescu;soo... anyone want to sell me bitcoin for $100 paypal ? o.O
1578983;1481117263;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'll do it
1578984;1481117279;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: pgpgram re who/where
1578985;1481117325;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/55CD9F30ACFFAF6583F74987FBF4CC60F05BF7145C543061E9F49F1C7DB83443 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1626...2569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.174.78.171 (ssh-rsa key from 79.174.78.171 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (5429.ovz-ssd9.hc.ru. RU)
1578986;1481117327;mircea_popescu;works ty.
1578987;1481117484;Framedragger;hundred bucks? ich verstehe nicht :O
1578988;1481117490;mircea_popescu;lol
1578989;1481117608;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578953 << theoretically v works exactly same with any diffing algo. but if you keep more than one type around, you gotta distinguish'em somehow, e.g., call your sexpr vtron's patches 'foo.lpatch' or similar
1578990;1481117608;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 05:28 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: is there an argument for vetoing out-of-hand a v/patch implementation that diffs at the sexpr level rather than the line level?
1578991;1481117643;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i'd recommend instead to use standard text formatting scheme (slime's, say) for all lispolade.
1578992;1481118308;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzE3NXGXEAEGh99.jpg  <<< help Google with their keylogger
1578993;1481118411;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578982 << fuck i just got it. been too long. not a WHOLE btc. D'OH
1578994;1481118411;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 13:23 mircea_popescu: soo... anyone want to sell me bitcoin for $100 paypal ? o.O
1578995;1481118483;mircea_popescu;well no lol. some tiny fragment.
1578996;1481118738;davout;#trilema, the temple of bitcoin finance
1578997;1481118750;davout;:D
1578998;1481118760;mircea_popescu;apparently.
1578999;1481118837;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578956 << recall, they stopped making these recently. i literally bought ghe LAST one (2, actually, 1 for a relative)
1579000;1481118837;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 09:04 ben_vulpes: https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/12/6/milking-the-iphone << nowhere mentioned "fancy-ass nixy laptops for hipster-ass rorbros"
1579001;1481118837;shinohai;#trilema-otc
1579002;1481118902;asciilifeform;RIP, sorta-working-high-res-unix-lapppy.
1579003;1481118920;asciilifeform;they are no moar.
1579004;1481119084;asciilifeform;(can you picture using a box with no 'esc' key for text entry?!)
1579005;1481119237;davout;esp. true for vimfags
1579006;1481119281;asciilifeform;welcome, ben_vulpes , to the dour world of amd opteron et al, where 'working box is moarprecious than gold, because gold is merely an element in mendeleev table and you can always get more, but there will only get fewer boxes, and quickly'
1579007;1481119696;Framedragger;asciilifeform: related: https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/
1579008;1481119730;asciilifeform;Framedragger: aaah claasic
1579009;1481119742;*;asciilifeform saw before , somebody linked
1579010;1481119792;Framedragger;probably me on #b-a :p
1579011;1481120225;mircea_popescu;anyway, the way "tech" works in the us aka sv is very simply : get the "hipster ass rorbros" on the wagon, then sell them out later for mass market.
1579012;1481120254;mircea_popescu;kinda the deep reason smart people are so very hesitant to join anything. which is all the better - a divided elite is how the plebs get to pretend they matter.
1579013;1481120291;mircea_popescu;just like men clean up their kitchen to ensure their survival, just so fungi dirty up the kitchen, to ensure THEIR survival, and of the rats, cockroaches and other elements of the same ecosystem.
1579014;1481120316;mircea_popescu;passive niche support is what the game is all about, because indirect effects overwhelm direct effects in nature.
1579015;1481120596;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/ << Trilema - Sad times in the Fiat Empire - apparently you can't give the dollar away these days.
1579016;1481120800;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: nice message and all, but just fyi #bitcoin-otc seems still alive
1579017;1481120807;Framedragger;dunno if they like you there tho
1579018;1481120822;mircea_popescu;i couldn't care less, but sum up the trades for the day, do they come to $100 ?
1579019;1481120836;Framedragger;(well, 'alive' as in there are nyms logged in.)
1579020;1481120851;mircea_popescu;your thought process never ceases to amaze me :)
1579021;1481120875;Framedragger;i've joined about the time you asked about ppusd, getting reminded via nostalgia. there was no interaction as of yet :p
1579022;1481120886;Framedragger;maybe too early
1579023;1481120888;mircea_popescu;hey, im sure they could buy lithuania
1579024;1481120894;mircea_popescu;if apple could buy russia, why not.
1579025;1481120897;Framedragger;heh
1579026;1481120907;mircea_popescu;there are, after all, NYMS SIGNED IN
1579027;1481120913;Framedragger;i'm just sayin', you didn't try hard enough :p
1579028;1481120954;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry, i can't hear you over the sound of worthless dollars sloshing around. what was that ? i didn't... try hard enough to find the real place where they don't have meat in exchange for rubles ?
1579029;1481121037;Framedragger;i mean, it does seem pretty pathetic... plus, yknow, pay-"call me / charge me back some time"-pal
1579030;1481121080;asciilifeform;and hey, monopoly does what it likes
1579031;1481121097;mircea_popescu;moreover... why do you think a company would take bitcoin, but refund in fiatola ?
1579032;1481121108;asciilifeform;if the next lappy comes with spiked anal cone, what, ben_vulpes won't buy?
1579033;1481121110;mircea_popescu;good money drives OUT the bad.
1579034;1481121115;mircea_popescu;an; they know this.
1579035;1481121158;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if they're anything like the earlier 'bitpay' scam, they hold 0 btc
1579036;1481121170;asciilifeform;and can only emit fiatola
1579037;1481121209;asciilifeform;any btc they get hold of goes straight to waterfall
1579038;1481121393;mircea_popescu;oh wait, the divisibility fallacy ? "the rat doesn't eat because the mouth doesn't hold on to any food!" ?
1579039;1481121395;mircea_popescu;gimme a break.
1579040;1481121467;asciilifeform;it was my understanding that this rat swallows, digests, and shits within three seconds
1579041;1481121645;mircea_popescu;mno. all fiat companies are the same company, call it the united states department of business fronts.
1579042;1481121680;asciilifeform;if they actually sold the coinz on the waterfall, and reddit chumpers have it nao, how would you picture them to disgorge it back ?
1579043;1481121685;mircea_popescu;that they picked a specialist which handles bitcoin storage is not germane ; the rat also picked a specialist which handles the fats cycle, called a liver. this doesn't mean the rat dun eat, nor does it mean charcoal is cheese or vice-versa.
1579044;1481121694;mircea_popescu;the rat's preference for cheese over charcoal is dispositive in the matter.
1579045;1481121702;asciilifeform;why would they store it ?
1579046;1481121707;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why not ? if bitcoin were weaker than fiat ?
1579047;1481121710;mircea_popescu;it'd be good business.
1579048;1481121741;mircea_popescu;you always want to pay in silver and be paid in gold. that's the rule ; that "nobody knows it" has little bearing.
1579049;1481121744;mircea_popescu;grandfathers knew it.
1579050;1481122232;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578953 << just fyi, while you can diff an intermediate ~state~ of an image as a sexp, common lisp's input is a ~character stream~. builtin dispatch ~mostly~ operates on forms (like #p #. (concatenate 'string "foo" "bar")), but not always, like #\; comment reads till end of line.
1579051;1481122232;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 05:28 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: is there an argument for vetoing out-of-hand a v/patch implementation that diffs at the sexpr level rather than the line level?
1579052;1481122306;mircea_popescu;^
1579053;1481122327;mircea_popescu;the notion is not so unlike "what if we diffed asts". it's a bad idea because now you want the "encoding".
1579054;1481123264;diana_coman;!!key EDLionX
1579055;1481123266;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/JvRoO/?raw=true
1579056;1481123317;diana_coman;!!rate EDLionX hard-working euloran noob
1579057;1481123317;*;deedbot hands you a broomstick.
1579058;1481123327;diana_coman;!!rate EDLionX 1 hard-working euloran noob
1579059;1481123329;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/YGSHQ/?raw=true
1579060;1481123359;diana_coman;!!v 16E921C9EED8785749555E4189246AD80F3C8D73B85238CB53B861E5E208B760
1579061;1481123359;deedbot;diana_coman rated EDLionX 1 << hard-working euloran noob
1579062;1481123484;mircea_popescu;yeah that's a point.
1579063;1481123526;mircea_popescu;!!rate EDLionX One of the sharpest Eulora noobs to date.
1579064;1481123526;*;deedbot hands you a broomstick.
1579065;1481123532;mircea_popescu;!!rate EDLionX 1 One of the sharpest Eulora noobs to date.
1579066;1481123534;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/cEdMP/?raw=true
1579067;1481123561;mircea_popescu;!!v 4E6B41AE30C2330D39F52ADE1A1C6553A9BA155B81D14BB865C6D452AD6D29CA
1579068;1481123561;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated EDLionX 1 << One of the sharpest Eulora noobs to date.
1579069;1481123867;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65F341354F31545C93BE093F7D772392E757E7F7379E2F1A43817607FBE671AF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1508...6879 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.93.194.69 (ssh-rsa key from 77.93.194.69 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ns1.a-webhosting.cz. CZ)
1579070;1481123867;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A2C8FC5503BFD645E3509CCC14724B450F5A76F4BD4329A307F76444312ABDE0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1523...8373 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.168.112.80 (ssh-rsa key from 81.168.112.80 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
1579071;1481123906;mircea_popescu;part of all of this - "asciilifeform" "framedragged" will be permanently associated with "a list of derpy boxes" huh.
1579072;1481123958;asciilifeform;could be worse.
1579073;1481123988;mircea_popescu;i guess in time we'll find out exactly how :D
1579074;1481124141;asciilifeform;;rate asciilifeform -9999 singlehandedly responsible for reactor meltdown, made entire vicinity of betelgeuse unorbitable
1579075;1481124141;asciilifeform;etc
1579076;1481124400;asciilifeform;openssl s_client -showcerts -connect  77.93.194.69:443
1579077;1481124407;asciilifeform;depth=0 C = XY, ST = Snake Desert, L = Snake Town, O = "Snake Oil, Ltd", OU = Webserver Team, CN = www.snakeoil.dom, emailAddress = www@snakeoil.dom
1579078;1481124409;asciilifeform;lel
1579079;1481124489;asciilifeform;https://81.168.112.80/logon.shtml << 'Watchguard Fireware'
1579080;1481124525;asciilifeform;^ new lultron
1579081;1481124571;asciilifeform;http://www.watchguard.com << didjaknow.
1579082;1481124579;mircea_popescu;i did not know
1579083;1481124599;asciilifeform;'Next-Generation Firewall  Security on your terms, with enterprise-speed protection at the edge of your network.  Unified Threat Management Maximum performance and security in an all-in-one appliance with built-in headroom.' etc. etc.
1579084;1481124605;asciilifeform;i also did not know!
1579085;1481124615;mircea_popescu;i don't think the boxes knew either.
1579086;1481124670;asciilifeform;man in a nuthouse. he cowers in the corner, won't let anyone come near, in very odd pose. finally the d00dz in white coats come. they ask:
1579087;1481124676;asciilifeform;'what do you think is happening'
1579088;1481124679;asciilifeform;'i am an acorn'
1579089;1481124698;asciilifeform;'didn't we explain yesterday, that you are not an acorn? it's ok to walk in the park'
1579090;1481124716;asciilifeform;'well ~i~! know now that i'm not an acorn. but do THE SQUIRRELS know??????'
1579091;1481124916;mircea_popescu;aha!
1579092;1481125033;asciilifeform;(incidentally almost every single nuthouse joke in existence is only half-funny to programmers, who live in it, in all of them...)
1579093;1481125071;mircea_popescu;do you know the "why are you pulling that string" ?
1579094;1481125077;asciilifeform;nein
1579095;1481125087;mircea_popescu;"what'd you have me do, PUSH it ?"
1579096;1481125099;asciilifeform;lul
1579097;1481125308;mircea_popescu;speaking of fiat world : citibank had a branch in brunei since 1972 ; it was closed in 2014. hsbc is closing down. guess who received permission to open this spring ?
1579098;1481125331;phf;bank of america?
1579099;1481125350;mircea_popescu;eh who's letting the soviets in. no, no. bank of china.
1579100;1481125367;phf;oh i was going to say cbc next
1579101;1481125587;phf;"This is part of the group’s global review of businesses and represents a significant step in HSBCs goal to optimise its global network and reduce complexity outlined during the HSBC Investor Update on June 9, 2015." "optimise and reduce" huh
1579102;1481125610;mircea_popescu;phf first they kicked out the us then the brits (historically colonial owner)
1579103;1481125745;mircea_popescu;nato reich gradually being ghettoized, i dunno who the fuck will swallow this theory whereby you actually want to move banking out of brunei. what, world's richest state ? mmkay.
1579104;1481125858;asciilifeform;will petrosultanates remain rich after nato army umbrella wanders away ?
1579105;1481125896;mircea_popescu;you kidding, brunei has its own army! three companies! and own navy! five frigatges!
1579106;1481125921;asciilifeform;will go in new jp empire.
1579107;1481125933;asciilifeform;Sphere of Asian Coprosperity!111111
1579108;1481125969;mircea_popescu;copro alright.
1579109;1481126258;phf;"reduce group risk weighted assets by about US$290 billion" ... "we will be selling our operation in Turkey. We’ll also be selling our operation in Brazil, but plan to maintain a modest corporate banking presence to serve about 300 international clients in Brazil. We are actually going to keep Mexico" ... "So we moved away from the World’s Local Bank" ... "We’ve exited 15 countries, reducing from 87 to 73 so far, and whole lines of
1579110;1481126259;phf;business exits – for example retail banking in Thailand – in 10 more countries."
1579111;1481126314;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1579112;1481126330;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the us still pretends it doesn't know who or what the icbc is,  as discussed last year and etc
1579113;1481126341;mircea_popescu;"apple COULD buy russia ; meanwhile icbc bought south america"
1579114;1481126567;mircea_popescu;and as per the "Won't fucking yield" disbelief, they'll go to their shallow grave kicking and screaming about how great the reich is and how black women matter or some dorkage.
1579115;1481126633;asciilifeform;'yield' means to go to same grave today instead of tomorrow. who the fuck yields.
1579116;1481126695;mircea_popescu;there's exactly nothing that'd keep them from coming here and giving away the nuclear button to the l1. yes we'd butcher some daughters / most sons, but so what of it - some'd survive. even the cod knows this much, that the correct reaction is to throw the meat at the knife, rather than to try and protect it.
1579117;1481126741;asciilifeform;theoretically same 'nothing' kept germany from surrendering in '43
1579118;1481126814;mircea_popescu;actually, post leningrad. correct move would have been conditional surrender mid august 1942.
1579119;1481126841;asciilifeform;bbbbbut wunderwaffen!1111
1579120;1481126852;mircea_popescu;mno. idiot planners always do this single-lobe bs.
1579121;1481126876;mircea_popescu;THE MOMENT you slate august 9th for lavish banquet at astoria, YOU THEREBY ALSO slate unconditional surrender in any other case.
1579122;1481126882;mircea_popescu;play with fucking real money wtf is this bs.,
1579123;1481126899;asciilifeform;dunno that any of these folx have seen, touched, smelled real money.
1579124;1481126917;mircea_popescu;sad.
1579125;1481127620;mircea_popescu;and in other thinspiration / ana : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/%D0%94%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F.jpg
1579126;1481127633;mircea_popescu;notice that apparently, the tit goes last.
1579127;1481128128;phf;Апатия истаявшей свечи...  \ Все перечни и признаки сухие  \ Того, что по-ученому врачи  \ Зовут «алиментарной дистрофией»  \ И что не латинист и не филолог  \ Определяет русским словом «голод».
1579128;1481128195;mircea_popescu;glod, evidently cognate, is "dirt" in romanian. not so much as the generative mud but as unwelcome dirt.
1579129;1481128496;asciilifeform;'В мире есть царь: этот царь беспощаден, Голод названье ему.' (tm) (r) (nekrasov)
1579130;1481128680;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/ISTTX << speaking of 'baffling' chinese behaviour in orclands, tourists invading kidlington uk, pop 13k.
1579131;1481128715;mircea_popescu;http://thinintentionsforever.blogspot.com.ar/p/pro-ana-tips.html << check out the think btw. the deep carnal nature of the disorder/"disorder" (really, eat naked in front of a mirror ?) and the purely symbolic approach of the self-appointed healers in the comment section.
1579132;1481128746;pete_dushenski;why kidlington ? close enough to london, quiet enough to be affordable, clean air, safe. what else could a pekingian want ?
1579133;1481128844;mircea_popescu;THEY WONT FUCKING YIELD. exactly 0 approach for the actual issues involved, no you can't own your body, no you can't want actualities ; please consider THIS approach to a purely symbolic relationship with reality. oh, "imagining yourself as a 3yo" won't do it for you ? ok, ok, there's other layers of indirection available! pick one! YOU MUST PICK ONE!
1579134;1481128857;mircea_popescu;control is verboten!
1579135;1481128934;mircea_popescu;must has indirection! java good asm bad ; unicode good ascii bad ; usd good bitcoin bad ; "signal" "tor" whatever good rsa pgp etc bad and so on it goes.
1579136;1481128961;mircea_popescu;in brunei, porn is forbidden, fucking your wife is not ; in the us porn is acceptable, "marital rape" is a thing.
1579137;1481128980;*;mircea_popescu is persuaded the whole story with imperial ideology is the mandatory indirection layer.
1579138;1481129076;mircea_popescu;imagine, you're not allowed to pick up a woman and fuck her ; you're required to pay someone to pick women and fuck them and film the process and pass it to you!
1579139;1481129087;asciilifeform;more subtly, they teach rubes to want certain impossible things -- 'central namespace', 'reversible money', 'transparent email crypto', various follies, that can only be satisfied with their particular dope supply
1579140;1481129090;mircea_popescu;"professionalization" amirite. division of labour, am i rite. high tech!!!1
1579141;1481129106;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suspect that's just natural fallout.
1579142;1481129120;mircea_popescu;"could i have cubic sphere with this ?" "sure, why the fuck not." "ah ok then"
1579143;1481129144;mircea_popescu;the amusing part being that given indirection layer, cubical sphere is entirely possible.
1579144;1481129158;asciilifeform;aha, tracks eyes and where you look - it is flat.
1579145;1481129176;mircea_popescu;however implemented ; it is after all why it's an indirection layer - so it lies.
1579146;1481129190;mircea_popescu;indirection lier.
1579147;1481129311;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski maybe they were confused as to how "kid lick ton" translates into chinese ?
1579148;1481129332;asciilifeform;btw possibly this village is a tourist trap because not yet allah-snackbar ??
1579149;1481129358;mircea_popescu;the chinese don't have the soviet problem with sharia law from what i've seen.
1579150;1481129383;asciilifeform;lolwut, they have whole west half of country corralled off for it, neh ?
1579151;1481129395;mircea_popescu;individual people i mean
1579152;1481129395;asciilifeform;and ~0 leakage save for the occasional machete hero
1579153;1481129417;asciilifeform;well not necessarily 'have problem', but say a chinese d00d wants to visit actual britain, vs cairo
1579154;1481129430;asciilifeform;possibly it lives in kid lick.
1579155;1481129461;mircea_popescu;possibly!
1579156;1481129481;asciilifeform;'A three-bedroom semidetached house sells for about $430,000, local real estate agents say.' << lel just like suburns of washington
1579157;1481129487;asciilifeform;(slightly, in fact, cheaper)
1579158;1481129505;mircea_popescu;after argentina experience /me puts no value in room counts.
1579159;1481129510;mircea_popescu;floor area plox.
1579160;1481129528;*;mircea_popescu doesn't want to hear about how irrelevant island thinks itself special, "we don't use measurements here"
1579161;1481129530;asciilifeform;university towns in usa are terrifying in this respect
1579162;1481129541;asciilifeform;i toured a '5 bedroom' where each was the size of a large phone booth
1579163;1481129576;phf;huuh two thirds of these ana recommendations are basic food hygiene, and how i've been eating for most of my life. the rest is a bit over the top, but doesn't look particularly bad
1579164;1481129651;mircea_popescu;phf yes but i ignore those. the "be naked eating and watch yourself" thing is the clincher to my eyes, because WHEN the fuck does empire advise nudity ? never, not in "feel your boobs" public literature even
1579165;1481129689;mircea_popescu;and moreover, when the fuck is it "try AND SEE what happens" a criteria ? no, the excuses are always there, "marks are so unfair" blabla.
1579166;1481129701;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578958 << not that big of a lol.
1579167;1481129701;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 12:18 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that link dun werk! https://archive.is/lzImt
1579168;1481129838;mircea_popescu;but that said - the article is plainly indicative of psychopatology of the systematizing persuasion ; whether it's actually clinically relevant or subclinical will have to be decided by the clinician attending the case.
1579169;1481130048;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/another-spam-tipping-service-emerges-to-fill-invisible-void/ << Qntra - Another Spam Tipping Service Emerges To Fill Invisible Void
1579170;1481130091;phf;well, right, even if the practices are solid the "and see" part is not going to work, because seeing is broken
1579171;1481130163;mircea_popescu;which is kind-of the point of this entire anorexia/bulimia thing : the subjective misperception.
1579172;1481130195;mircea_popescu;it's just therapy is almost never successful because it is almost never willing to address the actual core of the problem - which is society, specifically, the impossibility of intelligent youth  controlling things.
1579173;1481130511;phf;right, the healers in the comments are basically happy inmates, telling her that everything's going to be ok as long as she sticks to prescribed pill regiment
1579174;1481130549;mircea_popescu;regimen*
1579175;1481130578;mircea_popescu;the sad truth of the matter is the mp trilemma. which reads like so :
1579176;1481130703;mircea_popescu;you can have youths with two of three : a) "civilised world" native ; b) intelligent  and c) not self-harming.
1579177;1481130738;mircea_popescu;the exact nature of c) is often obscure ; but there are no exceptions.
1579178;1481130908;phf;(i had a good result with a scale before. "here's a scale, write your weight daily in this calendar, in fucking killos, what the fuck" then every single complaint is brought back to the data, if actually intelligent start noticing disparity. "i'm FAAAT but the weight went down by a killo in the past two months, wtf" etc)
1579179;1481131517;mircea_popescu;this isn't how it works.
1579180;1481131546;phf;how come?
1579181;1481131585;mircea_popescu;well if it worked then you could install a laughmeter on their ipad and any complaint of unhappiness would similarly be referred to the graph.
1579182;1481131595;mircea_popescu;phf's anti-depression app.
1579183;1481131645;mircea_popescu;in your own terms : the problem is hidden under the definition of "intelligence" ; now intelligent has been re-defined to mean "whatever it meant before + good response to the scale method"
1579184;1481131691;mircea_popescu;whereas my intelligence is defined very much in low bio terms, as an antonym to sluggishness. entirely to how you score "lively" colts and puppies.
1579185;1481131774;mircea_popescu;o wow, such a goldmine. check this out :
1579186;1481131776;mircea_popescu;"People who have never had an eating disorder won't understand and yet they still feel the need to comment on people telling them they are wrong well no, we arent. I had an eating disorder and it was the most happiest I had ever been, the thought of not eating and not even being bothered was good, I was in control of something and things were how I wanted them to be, I was happy and now I'm over that I'm not happy I hate myse
1579187;1481131776;mircea_popescu;lf I've put weight on and it was the worst thing that I have done and all for making other people happy!! If people are happy to starve themselves or make themselves sick then leave them be we dont need petty sly comments of people who have no idea what they are talking about."
1579188;1481131813;mircea_popescu;"you'll die" "so will you" "yes but i'll die happy" "so will i". go ahead and settle the dispute, good heavens.
1579189;1481131845;asciilifeform;wagner,cyanide, await.
1579190;1481131852;asciilifeform;why interfere with these folx.
1579191;1481131872;mircea_popescu;because as it is commonly the case, the only people who should still be here are the ones who died already.
1579192;1481131878;mircea_popescu;the rest are the scum of the pack.
1579193;1481131958;*;asciilifeform pictures a valhalla full of anorexic gurlz
1579194;1481131973;mircea_popescu;very thin ryes.
1579195;1481132038;asciilifeform;and somehow medieval flagellants also come to mind.
1579196;1481132046;asciilifeform;they also liked 'control'.
1579197;1481132050;mircea_popescu;aha.
1579198;1481132058;asciilifeform;plagues, i imagine, beget flagellants.
1579199;1481132066;asciilifeform;there, and now.
1579200;1481132079;mircea_popescu;incidentally, much to my vague meh, nobody seems to have caught on and started a study in terms of "modern domestic terrorists, medieval flagellants"
1579201;1481132090;mircea_popescu;the similarities are striking, but i guess no humanities scholars left.
1579202;1481132112;*;trinque knows a person who owns a weimaraner, thing paces in her back yard back and forth between back door and window so much there's no grass in the path, has various other compulsions
1579203;1481132120;trinque;in valhalla, it hunts bear
1579204;1481132130;mircea_popescu;aha. hunt dogs kept by normies, worst curse.
1579205;1481132135;trinque;it's awful
1579206;1481132145;mircea_popescu;"whadda ya mean walk this dog means, 20+ miles! nobody can walk 20 miles!"
1579207;1481132147;asciilifeform;i knew a d00d who got weimaraner, brought it to office, it gnawed chairs, pant legs
1579208;1481132150;mircea_popescu;"bitch... you have no idea."
1579209;1481132155;asciilifeform;i think i still have the pants with the hole
1579210;1481132204;asciilifeform;incidentally happy perl harbour day, folx
1579211;1481132229;*;asciilifeform sings 'kimigayo'
1579212;1481132237;mircea_popescu;that's a holiday ?
1579213;1481132243;asciilifeform;in gringolandia
1579214;1481132245;asciilifeform;'holiday'
1579215;1481132346;mircea_popescu;meh, this is worst anthem. wtf.
1579216;1481132366;mircea_popescu;laaa-laaaa-waaaank-laaaa-ndiiiiiaaaaaa
1579217;1481132375;asciilifeform;'tleast it's short!111
1579218;1481132397;asciilifeform;circa 800 ad or somesuch.
1579219;1481132452;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcUR6y6Kmkk << just as short ; much better music.
1579220;1481132501;mircea_popescu;exact same conceptual framework, what with prinz karl erschinen etc.
1579221;1481132504;*;asciilifeform adjusts pickelhaube
1579222;1481132647;mircea_popescu;pity there's no hats with pickled gerkins.
1579223;1481132661;asciilifeform;l0l
1579224;1481133149;BingoBoingo;Yet!
1579225;1481133307;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/7SE9E << somehow i missed this old noose. in re how nato does target practice on own boats.
1579226;1481133321;asciilifeform;(july '16)
1579227;1481133436;mircea_popescu;actually the taiwan harpoons are pretty good.
1579228;1481133467;mircea_popescu;iirc nuclear capable even
1579229;1481137491;BingoBoingo;In other foundations https://i.imgur.com/sDx1hyG.jpg
1579230;1481138436;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: this is almost same as a photo i posted from under where i sit.
1579231;1481138454;BingoBoingo;Oh shit
1579232;1481138472;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-24#1307133 << thread
1579233;1481138472;a111;Logged on 2015-10-24 23:39 asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/hz7j9hf << an equally-appealing photo i took today.
1579234;1481138483;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the one linked earlier, is yours ?
1579235;1481138509;BingoBoingo;AHA, no not mine. Found on a "How not to do it" thread.
1579236;1481138568;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Anyways interesting detail was the giant hole in the foreground right next to the piers
1579237;1481138613;asciilifeform;where
1579238;1481138657;BingoBoingo;Where that all encompassing slope leads!
1579239;1481138672;BingoBoingo;convenient place for piers to fail to.
1579240;1481138679;asciilifeform;i see no pliers..
1579241;1481138825;BingoBoingo;Not pliers, piers! The stacks of brick holding up the steel beams set on concrete piles from which surrounding dirt has been washing away.
1579242;1481138902;BingoBoingo;That poor house is set to become something other than level in a period of time that depends on local rainfall.
1579243;1481140071;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/the-burial-and-the-impossible-object/ << Trilema - The burial ; and the impossible object.
1579244;1481140129;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lel i misread
1579245;1481140185;asciilifeform;aaalso deedbot skipped a trilema?!
1579246;1481140192;mircea_popescu;did it ?
1579247;1481140196;mircea_popescu;no it's right there.
1579248;1481140215;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/ ?
1579249;1481140279;shinohai;!~bcstats
1579250;1481140281;jhvh1;shinohai: Current Blocks: {"blockcount":442390} | Current Difficulty: {"difficulty":286765766820.5504} | Next Difficulty At Block: None | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1579251;1481140344;mircea_popescu;oh hm
1579252;1481140346;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: lol. ANyways crawlspace is a way to put house on foundation. Crawlspace on slope is way to develop lot that will require debris removal during resale.
1579253;1481140358;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's in the log.
1579254;1481140362;asciilifeform;hmm
1579255;1481140429;thestringpuller;did you ever offload that $100 paypal?
1579256;1481140437;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1579257;1481140448;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aah found it, nm
1579258;1481140499;phf;i recently finished reading olympus/ilium scifi series by dan simmons, where one of the lines is Achilles becoming immortal (in the unable to die sense) because Paris is killed before he can deliver the arrow
1579259;1481140520;mircea_popescu;did it have to be paris specifically for some reason ?
1579260;1481140563;asciilifeform;his destructor never called, he sits around in the heap...
1579261;1481140572;mircea_popescu;lol
1579262;1481140586;asciilifeform;and eventually this becomes a regular thing and universe OOMs
1579263;1481140619;mircea_popescu;this isn't how the greek lehmer sieve worked afaik.
1579264;1481140653;phf;well, it being a scifi series achilles's immortality is one of the ways in which "quantum probability" something something "destruction of known universe"
1579265;1481140689;mircea_popescu;funny (to me) how often "destruction fo known x" is an ontological rather than gnoseological matter.
1579266;1481141095;phf;probably because the first one can be imagined and verbalized, where's the second one once understood for what it is already happened. doesn't allow for much action, with shooting and adventures and stuff
1579267;1481143572;mircea_popescu;aha.
1579268;1481146852;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579135 << branch prediction good!
1579269;1481146852;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 16:42 mircea_popescu: must has indirection! java good asm bad ; unicode good ascii bad ; usd good bitcoin bad ; "signal" "tor" whatever good rsa pgp etc bad and so on it goes.
1579270;1481146861;ben_vulpes;"i gave up on understanding processors a while ago"
1579271;1481146867;*;ben_vulpes dies inside
1579272;1481146917;ben_vulpes;"you know, if you can squeeze a tenth of a percent of a performance increase out of their chips over the course of your career there, you'll be sitting pretty with that dumptruck of printolade showing up at your house every two weeks!"
1579273;1481146970;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578978 << only because he wrote v
1579274;1481146970;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 12:33 mircea_popescu: well, technically he asked alf, so there is that. none of our bidnis :D
1579275;1481147028;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579032 << i have an entire vault of macbooks, odds that i'll buy more are ~0.
1579276;1481147028;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 14:31 asciilifeform: if the next lappy comes with spiked anal cone, what, ben_vulpes won't buy?
1579277;1481147049;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i thought you sold proggies for these, and was forced to use latest os etc
1579278;1481147068;ben_vulpes;i have a vault of them!
1579279;1481147075;ben_vulpes;latest os runs fine. today.
1579280;1481147085;asciilifeform;aha and every couplea years they cut off the old iron
1579281;1481147097;asciilifeform;(e.g. i have a 'mac air' here that won't go past 10.6)
1579282;1481147102;ben_vulpes;by that time i think the coolies will be responsible for their own hardware, not me.
1579283;1481147179;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579050 << "image" as in "lisp image"? the reason i ask is because reindenting blocks of code for a multiple-value-bind makes unnecessary patch noise.
1579284;1481147179;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 14:50 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1578953 << just fyi, while you can diff an intermediate ~state~ of an image as a sexp, common lisp's input is a ~character stream~. builtin dispatch ~mostly~ operates on forms (like #p #. (concatenate 'string "foo" "bar")), but not always, like #\; comment reads till end of line.
1579285;1481147574;trinque;clearly lisp comments are borken!
1579286;1481147740;*;trinque kids, various other reader macros also violate the homoiconicity
1579287;1481147764;phf;trinque: go write scheme, infidel
1579288;1481147978;phf;ben_vulpes: yeah, lisp image. fwiw if you're trying to ignore whitespace (since you're going to lose that information in a sexp, unless you preserve that information, in which case you will have to patch it same way), then diff already does it: it's called ignore whitespace (-b or -w or -B depending on usecase)
1579289;1481148041;ben_vulpes;is there a difference between ignoring whitespace and only examining the forms that changed?
1579290;1481148122;trinque;sounds like it'd produce a patched item that is formatted incorrectly, which would suck
1579291;1481148124;phf;well, it's fundamentally different things, but for your purposes it'll be different when there's information in whitespace. like say it's a form that has text in it, and you modify text inside that form, ec.
1579292;1481148132;trinque;that also
1579293;1481148254;phf;for all other cases it'll ignore the lines that have whitespace changes, but if you make a change that has whitespace change on one line, and then substantial change on another line, that relies on new whitespace, then yeah you get borked formatting
1579294;1481148268;trinque;really, it's true that all those lines whose whitespace changed *did change*
1579295;1481148279;trinque;their return will now be run through some other form, or now not, or whatever
1579296;1481148310;trinque;same thing happens in well formatted C, if you say add an "if" where one was not
1579297;1481148385;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, local power co notifies me that "in order to continue providing high level of services" etc they'll be installing a gasoline backup generator, which will result in two "very short" power interruptions.
1579298;1481148400;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didntcha have a marine diesel
1579299;1481148403;asciilifeform;what gives
1579300;1481148405;mircea_popescu;ostensibly they'll park theirs right next to mine, we can get a diesel generator burning tailgate party going
1579301;1481148435;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suppose people who aren't me complained ? honestly i was half expecting they're actuallyoffering to buy mine.
1579302;1481148486;mircea_popescu;(argentina being one of the few places where used machinery is valued above same machinery new, perhaps on a derivation of the medieval "woman with children worth more, proven functional cuntperl implementation", it might even have made business sense to sell it.)
1579303;1481148545;mircea_popescu;phf nevertheless, it does say "AS WE KNOW IT". clearly it's a knowledge problem not a being problem neh.
1579304;1481148574;mircea_popescu;"my mom as i knew her died the moment she hooked up with her old associates and went back to stripping."
1579305;1481148616;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: by now you probably understood that 'diff sexpr' doesn't necessarily win, because, e.g., commonlisp sexpr can involve reader macros and look like, say, this -- http://www.loper-os.org/?p=103
1579306;1481148656;mircea_popescu;moreover, v is about people and therefore it must work on the closest-to-people juncture.
1579307;1481148692;asciilifeform;i was about to phrase it as 'output of v transformation must always remain obvious to kindergartener' but mircea_popescu has it.
1579308;1481148705;*;ben_vulpes nods
1579309;1481148711;phf;ben_vulpes: i don't know how to solve that problem, but "i know, sexp will help us!" is not. you basically need to redesign a bunch of things about reader, have a custom save format (that will look closer to (DEFUN FOO () (IF BAR QUX (PROGN ...)))). sexp nature will help you ~a bit~, but like mp said it's closer to "let's save AST", because sexp don't preserve nearly enough required info
1579310;1481148734;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=103&cpage=1#comment-3946 so we click on the "recommendation", find a 404. ty so much for recommending expiring licenses.
1579311;1481148738;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: diffing sexprs is an attractive idea for other purposes but it still gotta ~work~ with your lisp (and all conceivable readermacroizations thereof, which is harder)
1579312;1481148746;ben_vulpes;"slap a license on it!!!"
1579313;1481148763;mircea_popescu;society would be better served if buttslappers stuck to slapping butts
1579314;1481148768;asciilifeform;lulzy link rot.
1579315;1481148772;mircea_popescu;rather than being chased into... intellectual pursuits.
1579316;1481148781;ben_vulpes;web dogs slap butts?
1579317;1481148790;asciilifeform;http://copyfree.org/content/standard/licenses/ctl/license.txt << full, apparently, text.
1579318;1481148791;mircea_popescu;no but their fathers did.
1579319;1481148793;asciilifeform;it was a trololol.
1579320;1481148801;phf;asciilifeform: i've seen people diff sexps for producing semi-automatic patches of live system. so like if you want to replicate the image code state across machines, can rig up some not-for-reading dumper
1579321;1481148809;asciilifeform;'Crowley Thelemic License    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the License.'
1579322;1481148833;phf;that one warms my heart for sentimental reasons
1579323;1481148855;asciilifeform;phf: one problem is that all lisps running on x86 have 'heathen' state
1579324;1481148862;asciilifeform;that isn't adequately represented in a save-and-die
1579325;1481148871;asciilifeform;(e.g., open unix fd's)
1579326;1481148882;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pity the thelema doods didn't put a card spade inside their figure, it'd have been a great gypsy-like icon
1579327;1481149302;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579309 << the amusing observation lying in wait is that the difference between satoshi-style design and tmsr-style design evidently is that in the case of the former a prototype is hashed out and then much to everyone's surprise almost all ulterior ideas are actual improvements ; wheres in the case of hte later a prototype is similarly hashed out and then much to everyone's surprise almost a
1579328;1481149302;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 22:11 phf: ben_vulpes: i don't know how to solve that problem, but "i know, sexp will help us!" is not. you basically need to redesign a bunch of things about reader, have a custom save format (that will look closer to (DEFUN FOO () (IF BAR QUX (PROGN ...)))). sexp nature will help you ~a bit~, but like mp said it's closer to "let's save AST", because sexp don't preserve nearly enough required info
1579329;1481149302;mircea_popescu;ll ulterior ideas aren't.
1579330;1481149310;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579283 << ben_vulpes please consider posting the example of this you ran into
1579331;1481149310;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 21:46 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579050 << "image" as in "lisp image"? the reason i ask is because reindenting blocks of code for a multiple-value-bind makes unnecessary patch noise.
1579332;1481149315;asciilifeform;i'd like to see.
1579333;1481149362;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: all in due time
1579334;1481149374;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in all fairness, i massaged 'v' quietly for quite some time before posting
1579335;1481149383;mircea_popescu;so did satoshi.
1579336;1481149401;asciilifeform;neither i nor afaik anybody else knows what satoshi did prior to posting
1579337;1481149428;asciilifeform;possibly wrote whole thing in one weekend, and with vodka
1579338;1481149451;phf;mircea_popescu: i really hope i'm not preventing ben_vulpes from hacking, i have a few previous failed attempts at doing this though
1579339;1481149454;mircea_popescu;not so, according to knowledge that i guess may have expired meanwhile.
1579340;1481149464;mircea_popescu;phf i wouldn't worry about it.
1579341;1481149469;ben_vulpes;^
1579342;1481149495;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: expand plox re the 'expired knowledge'
1579343;1481149532;mircea_popescu;most of the honest (as oposed to gavinous) people originally involved with the project went away quietly.
1579344;1481149554;phf;but so that it's not just noise, here's one thing that i used as a jumping point, http://foldr.org/~michaelw/log/programming/lisp/diff-sexp there's also a cmu archive of differs, including a working common lisp diff implementation (with a different output though) http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/tools/src_cmp/0.html
1579345;1481149567;mircea_popescu;for instance, everyone thinks of theymos as "tardstalk owner", except that forum was made by sirius ; and was quite acceptable  before it went to shit.
1579346;1481149593;ben_vulpes;www-cgi
1579347;1481149595;ben_vulpes;tight
1579348;1481149643;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: btw if you are writing a differ, familiarize yourself with needleman-wunsch algo, most extant difftrons for some reason unknown to me do not use it
1579349;1481149665;mircea_popescu;actually, even if you aren't writing a differ.
1579350;1481149666;asciilifeform;(it is a pretty good levenshtein-minimizer, if you will)
1579351;1481149674;phf;ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely
1579352;1481149692;ben_vulpes;wow cool 2 assignments in as many seconds
1579353;1481149698;phf;:D
1579354;1481149701;mircea_popescu;blame canada.
1579355;1481149726;asciilifeform;speaking of!
1579356;1481149737;asciilifeform;'Dear Internet Archive Patrons,  We need your help to make sure the Internet Archive lasts forever. On November 9, we woke up to a new administration promising radical change. This is a firm reminder that the Internet Archive must also design for change. So we set a new goal: to create a copy of our collections in the Internet Archive of Canada. This will cost millions. For us, it means keeping our cultural materials safe, private an
1579357;1481149737;asciilifeform;d perpetually accessible. It means preparing for a Web that may face greater restrictions. It means serving patrons when government surveillance may be on the rise. The Internet Archive is a non-profit library built on trust. Reader privacy is very important to us, so we don’t accept ads. We don’t collect your personal information. .... [snipped bs]'
1579358;1481149747;mircea_popescu;fuck 'em.
1579359;1481149762;asciilifeform;the sheer...
1579360;1481149802;mircea_popescu;built on "trust", the non-crypto, anon version of trust.
1579361;1481149804;mircea_popescu;hurr.
1579362;1481149845;*;mircea_popescu files the "mp again picked the right horse" and forgets "internet archive" even existed.
1579363;1481149948;phf;can also use zhang-shasha "editing distance between trees" algo http://epubs.siam.org.sci-hub.io/doi/pdf/10.1137/0218082
1579364;1481149956;asciilifeform;re 'trust', oblig orlol, ' Trust is transactional: a person needs a reason to trust you, and you need a reason to trust that person. There is, however, such a quality as trustfulness: this is the property of small children, tame animals and, most unfortunately for them, many regular, salt-of-the-earth, mainstream Americans. It is of negative survival value in the context of financial collapse. It is being exhibited for all to see by
1579365;1481149956;asciilifeform;some of the people who recently lost money when MF Global stole it to cover some private bets it had made. They licked their wounds, complained bitterly, and then...went looking for another financial company—to be taken advantage of again. '
1579366;1481149963;asciilifeform;( http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-untrustworthy-and-trustful.html )
1579367;1481149991;mircea_popescu;chumpness is a resource.
1579368;1481150000;asciilifeform;sure is
1579369;1481150020;mircea_popescu;trusfulness, as it were.
1579370;1481150029;mircea_popescu;trusefulness*
1579371;1481150096;mircea_popescu;anyway, he's wrong re "negative survival value". the fitness value (correct term) of bovine behaviour is uncomputable, because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579116
1579372;1481150096;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 16:04 mircea_popescu: there's exactly nothing that'd keep them from coming here and giving away the nuclear button to the l1. yes we'd butcher some daughters / most sons, but so what of it - some'd survive. even the cod knows this much, that the correct reaction is to throw the meat at the knife, rather than to try and protect it.
1579373;1481150125;asciilifeform;the fitness value of getting into the first black van that offers the proverbial candy -- is computable.
1579374;1481150153;mircea_popescu;not so. what if i happen to be running the first and you end up my main bitch ?
1579375;1481150162;asciilifeform;what if asteroid falls.
1579376;1481150171;mircea_popescu;the dispute is "computable"!
1579377;1481150178;mircea_popescu;yes, it can be bounded.
1579378;1481150389;asciilifeform;'I wrote this email recommending bitcoins to Dmitry on June 18th, 2011, I hope he is rich now, since Bitcoins are up 4000% since then...' << a particle of lultronium from the comments
1579379;1481150514;mircea_popescu;amusingly, ~none of the early bright minds are rich now.
1579380;1481150547;asciilifeform;you mean the avaricious idiots who insisted on 'investing' in imaginaries ?
1579381;1481150614;mircea_popescu;wasn't the prb devteam announcing dismal holdings last they talked about it ?
1579382;1481150627;asciilifeform;(' i have 10,000,001 unpilferable cryptotronic magic coin; what to do now? I KNOW! i'll trade'em all in for PROMISES and HOLOGRAPHICALLY SEALED TURDS ')
1579383;1481150640;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: last i recall, prb was 100% mit-powered
1579384;1481150673;mircea_popescu;buterin was circling bitcoin (as an outsider) a coupla years before you showed up. where's his millions ?
1579385;1481150688;mircea_popescu;same repeats for all the various bright minds in their own / reddit's estimation.
1579386;1481150706;asciilifeform;quite truly i have nfi what precisely happened before i tuned in ( and even during; the record is not so great )
1579387;1481150721;asciilifeform;but i also see no reason to think that the mega-wealthy folk publicly advertised their stashes
1579388;1481150724;asciilifeform;( why ?? )
1579389;1481150747;mircea_popescu;the problem with smart kids who have the misfortune to be born to english speaking whores is that they're taught to not want to rape anything.
1579390;1481150763;mircea_popescu;what sort of idle knowledge this is and whom it serves we shall not discuss ; but it does make them inept for life.
1579391;1481150769;asciilifeform;from my perch it looks opposite, they are busy round the clock raping one another
1579392;1481150802;mircea_popescu;i did say any~thing~. they're ecologists, they just want to imagology.
1579393;1481150831;mircea_popescu;none of that last century "by god i will dig this mountain up and reshape it as a pineapple" piss and vinegar feelin' left.
1579394;1481150865;mircea_popescu;"gotta get along", "will take a picture of me in front of this strangely pineapple-shaped mountain" etc.
1579395;1481150888;asciilifeform;'We don't do that anymore. Any of it.' (uncle al, of course. http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/gasoline.htm )
1579396;1481150905;mircea_popescu;now, that they let the mountains be could be excused,
1579397;1481150915;mircea_popescu;but they also don't perceive any burning need to spend all their money on $2 btc.
1579398;1481150950;mircea_popescu;quoth the woman "my children are dying!" quoth the man "good, you'll make others."
1579399;1481151002;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: same folx happily blew their money on $2 (etc) alt-turds
1579400;1481151013;mircea_popescu;do you know why ?
1579401;1481151014;mircea_popescu;guess why!
1579402;1481151030;asciilifeform;same reason why the bitcoinists bought $2/btc ?
1579403;1481151041;mircea_popescu;because... let this sink in, ~~~BECAUSE~~~ the alt-turds offered a ready, indefeasible excuse to NOT seriously invest, to the degree of starving the children.
1579404;1481151060;*;asciilifeform doesn't quite grasp subj
1579405;1481151060;mircea_popescu;unthreateningly, "coupla bucks, who knows" is the exact name of the demon.
1579406;1481151083;asciilifeform;sooo the various 'omfg i lost my car and house' ethertards etc were confabulating ?
1579407;1481151104;mircea_popescu;the discussion here was from the get-go limited to "engineering" "intellectual" "bright minds".
1579408;1481151113;asciilifeform;or how about the folx who bought into btc just in time to get nailed by mtgox
1579409;1481151120;asciilifeform;hm
1579410;1481151120;trinque;hi!
1579411;1481151122;mircea_popescu;i have no interest in the misguided speculations of reddit as such, they're not a demographic as much as a random number machine.
1579412;1481151123;mircea_popescu;hola trinque
1579413;1481151130;ben_vulpes;in other dimitris https://www.meetup.com/The-Decentralized-Web/?from=ref
1579414;1481151164;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: who's that
1579415;1481151172;mircea_popescu;i was about to ask what am i looking at.
1579416;1481151191;ben_vulpes;nobodies! having meetups!
1579417;1481151196;ben_vulpes;https://twitter.com/dryajov
1579418;1481151206;mircea_popescu;good for 'em.
1579419;1481151208;ben_vulpes;inb4 nonperson
1579420;1481151216;asciilifeform;wai am i looking at this-here set of nobodies instead of that-there
1579421;1481151223;asciilifeform;(that-there ad infinitum)
1579422;1481151236;mircea_popescu;this isn't one of those west coast things that'll burn down in a final, desperate attempt of the participants to make the evening news, is it ?
1579423;1481151260;mircea_popescu;"burning man" suddenly a lot more psychanalizable than one'd care to.
1579424;1481151293;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this mazepath is grand
1579425;1481151313;asciilifeform;they are all pretty great imho.
1579426;1481151323;asciilifeform;and iirc mircea_popescu got an uncleal.tar.gz at some point.
1579427;1481151329;mircea_popescu;aha.
1579428;1481151361;asciilifeform;(they, funnily, are all on the man's www, but not indexed, every time i grep the local copy and look for same filename on his www, it's there...)
1579429;1481151465;mircea_popescu;i'm happy to report the auto-archiver works!
1579430;1481151641;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/gasoline.htm << neato
1579431;1481151717;mircea_popescu;"In 2003, massive cabals of Enviro-whiners are suing petroleum companies for contaminating the global environment with methyl tert-butyl ether. MTBE was the "oxygenate" for which Enviro-whiners massively sued petroleum companies, demanding it be added to gasoline. MTBE is an EPA priority carcinogen. Enviro-whinerism: expensive, shoddy, deadly." << quite exactly how the bullshit works, and worked, in all parts.
1579432;1481152344;mircea_popescu;in other random, http://www.thejohnwilkesclub.com/2013/07/23/revisiting-the-essay-on-woman-scandal/
1579433;1481152688;asciilifeform;http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/the-magic-of-polaroid-and-how-i-rescued-it-from-oblivion/ << linked somewhere from mircea_popescu's random
1579434;1481152769;*;mircea_popescu was never much of a fan.
1579435;1481152812;asciilifeform;https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/tom-petters-case-summary << somehow i slept through this
1579436;1481152851;mircea_popescu;gotta sleep sometime!
1579437;1481152979;asciilifeform;http://www.polaroid.com/products/onestep-600-instant-camera << holy fuq i had nfi these were still made. i have only ever seen'em at junk shops
1579438;1481152993;asciilifeform;possibly whole thing is a 'nostalgia' play
1579439;1481153046;asciilifeform;rather like the usb vinyl-record players etc.
1579440;1481153230;phf;asciilifeform: they are popular at dodgy events, because "only copy"
1579441;1481153243;asciilifeform;promisetronic!1111
1579442;1481153275;asciilifeform;(sell polaroid-with-seeeekrit-digicam, ???, profit!11111111)
1579443;1481153291;mircea_popescu;the argument is not without some merit, legions of 1960s aspie hos were flattered by the "unique, just like you" gate to pornography.
1579444;1481153293;phf;well, sell polaroid-with-seeeekrit-digicam destroy that whole segment
1579445;1481153632;phf;actually promisetronic to the max, since you don't even have to surrender the photo. something about the Polaroid part implies that you're not live streaming it to pornhub
1579446;1481153713;mircea_popescu;https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/07/pinboard_turns_seven/ << in other lulz.
1579447;1481153731;mircea_popescu;summary : "guy with no business model and no investors running some pointless web shit claims to make 10k a month from it somehow"
1579448;1481153774;mircea_popescu;(basically delicious re-done, and we all recall how that went. or no wait, was it magnolia ? right it was magnolia. anyway.)
1579449;1481153784;deedbot;http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/12/08/the-impossible-chances/ << Ossasepia - The Impossible Chances
1579450;1481153858;phf;he's got "sign up for $11/year" so if he has 11000 paying subscribers?
1579451;1481153903;mircea_popescu;something like that.
1579452;1481153988;mircea_popescu;note that a) facebook doesn't have 11k paying subscribers ; and that yahoo sacked delicious. it's rare dying things like yahoo terminate items that make money.
1579453;1481154004;mircea_popescu;heck, if they LOSE money slower than the whole shebang loses money the people involved tend to be promoted
1579454;1481154014;mircea_popescu;such is the rule at say alphabet ; microsoft ; etcetera.
1579455;1481154127;mircea_popescu;that said, he does have stroing support in the sprawling i-wanna-be-a-writer collective, which may actually contain 10k who can part with $10 a year (if not the same 10k each year, still) ; and if he keeps a tight lid on costs it may well work.
1579456;1481154141;phf;i went looking if marco arment has published any stats for when he was running instapaper (it was $3/mo for paying subscribers and perhaps somewhat more useful) and instead found https://marco.org/2016/11/11/letter-to-young-people
1579457;1481154175;mircea_popescu;phf i suspect the entire business model is "get archive.is for pay because you don't google too well".
1579458;1481154243;asciilifeform;hey that doesn't differ so much from rest of the shitware industry now does it.
1579459;1481154243;mircea_popescu;"but we did fix most of it" AHAHAHAHAHA omfg. name ONE THING mulatto-in-chief fixed. i wish to hear this wonder, the one item.
1579460;1481154259;mircea_popescu;leftards always go in general about bahamas. name the fucking item he did right, ever. what was it.
1579461;1481154300;asciilifeform;blacking
1579462;1481154345;mircea_popescu;"Most people in the world are good, and want to be good to each other. Whether they vote that way or not, far more Americans believe in progressive, liberal, inclusive views than regressive, aggressive, conservative ones. Young people know this better than anyone, because young people are overwhelmingly liberal, even more than older people. That’s not because you’re inexperienced — it’s because you’re right." << hur
1579463;1481154345;mircea_popescu;r. it is STRICTLY because young people lived on the dole much more than old people ; and so believe more in dole. many of them for complete lack of any understanding whatsoever that "milk doesn't come from supermarket" and equivalent.
1579464;1481154362;mircea_popescu;anyway, we agree : hang in there.
1579465;1481154614;mircea_popescu;phf asciilifeform as per your understanding of folk logic, could Кощей have kept the needle anywhere ?
1579466;1481154910;phf;probably not, requires a descent/ascent into the cave for the development of hero's journey. so couldn't keep it in his private study or kept some complicated opsec routine with fake needles and multiple storages and rotations, because that would take it out of realm of mythical
1579467;1481154951;mircea_popescu;my idea is that it being an ontology (as distinct from and very much opposed to a technology) such is entirely out of the question.
1579468;1481155975;phf;i'm not sure i get it. perhaps the idea is that the plot is constructed from conclusions backwards, rather than as a chain of causes and effects resulting in an outcome, then conclusion. so the setup is restricted by what actions hero must perform or what other kind of allegory
1579469;1481156007;mircea_popescu;no. you can't fly by your breaches, can you ? nor can you "make yourself" a boyar. nor can koschei DO things.
1579470;1481156017;mircea_popescu;in the world in which he lives, you ARE things ; you don't DO things.
1579471;1481156053;mircea_popescu;which is why eg. the notion of "consent" is entirely baffling. what do you mean, ivan should ask natasha. ask her WHAT THE FUCK ?!?! whether she IS a woman ? he can damn well see that ?
1579472;1481156110;mircea_popescu;the whole story is decided at the onset - ARE you hero mc heroson ? yes ? then you go kill koschei. no ? then you don't. what do you mean "do what he did" ffs.
1579473;1481156223;phf;aah
1579474;1481156297;mircea_popescu;kinda what "traditional society" actually means, if the term is used properly. and why derpage eg in the us re "traditional marriage" is so hysterical. really, TRADITIONAL ? mmmkay.
1579475;1481156306;mircea_popescu;just because it's your daddy's modern dun make it traditional.
1579476;1481156322;phf;"this is how things are around here parts", except nobody ever said that except in movies or when things are no longer are
1579477;1481156343;mircea_popescu;aha.
1579478;1481156359;mircea_popescu;it's ever only used as a cheap mocking post, see. gotta frame the modern story in some sort of context,
1579479;1481156367;mircea_popescu;but it's never more than context ; not in modern stories at any rate.
1579480;1481156401;mircea_popescu;it is however hermeneutics 101, the pons asinorum of the scholarly disciplines.
1579481;1481156586;mircea_popescu;diana_coman for some reason it decided i'm anonymous lol.
1579482;1481156830;phf;huh, it's unknowable, so either presented as a joke, or as complete hostile aliennes. sort of texas chainsaw massacre kind of stuff. russian equivalent would be narratives about "деревня"
1579483;1481157018;phf;forest used to be where the ancestors came from and that where demons and ghouls are. now ancestors come from tradition and that's where wilderness is
1579484;1481157056;mircea_popescu;aha.
1579485;1481157227;ben_vulpes;danielpbarron: you and a few others :P
1579486;1481157324;mircea_popescu;it's also the deep reason why reversion to feudalism / end of modernism is entirely unavoidable. the deep reason "dark ages" guys did what they did isn't them being "stupid", it's the absence of the modernist interface. when the world of possibilities is endless and the only possible trail is offered by strong identity, be it of the chivalric or v/wot type, society works a certain way.
1579487;1481157374;mircea_popescu;in order for the modernist delusion to work, some equivalence clases are prerequsite, which is why all modern states are socialisms. if differences matter, "modern democracy" is impossible.
1579488;1481157495;asciilifeform;https://support.circle.com/hc/en-us/articles/217972003 << meanwhile another scamola exchange bites it
1579489;1481157498;mircea_popescu;and which is why traditionalist societies guilty pleasure is genealogy, as in heraldics or vtronics ; whereas modernist societies guilty pleasure is "self improvement" as in miracle diets and  college degrees. (no, the two aren't different, the notion that you will BECOME at the college is entirely like the notion that you'll go to heaven through not cursing.)
1579490;1481157651;ben_vulpes;wasn't there a qntra on this, asciilifeform ?
1579491;1481157659;asciilifeform;possibly ?
1579492;1481157662;*;asciilifeform goes, looks
1579493;1481157664;shinohai;Indeed there is
1579494;1481157706;ben_vulpes;dear old kakobrekla will never admit to cribbing from qntra
1579495;1481157706;shinohai;These exchanges are like the hydra, 2 more will pop up in its wake.
1579496;1481157915;phf;hmm
1579497;1481158505;phf;not sure how reversion follows though. it's easy to run away into the forest, because it's completely meaningless. but running away into tradition is equivalent to death (per older thread). "destruction of known universe"
1579498;1481158604;phf;oh unless you mean it in a sense that it's inevitable with you or without you
1579499;1481158727;BingoBoingo;In other google suck: If you try searching for 2" drive sockets and breaker bars it returns ocean of wimpy 1/2" drive
1579500;1481159336;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8BD5120D4A95C75642CBB2D873E33FBC3C68B0FA4C2E02A493BC34DAEFE2664F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2722...4181 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.254.204.80 (ssh-rsa key from 213.254.204.80 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1579501;1481159336;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EEE6B1521D93CE1983B98DAC3DDEC4D3B74D2316105ADF8BE6E9F18555E34512 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1981...5981 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.38.64.200 (ssh-rsa key from 84.38.64.200 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server200.serverflex.de. DE)
1579502;1481159336;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65F341354F31545C93BE093F7D772392E757E7F7379E2F1A43817607FBE671AF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1716...9219 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.93.194.69 (ssh-rsa key from 77.93.194.69 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ns1.a-webhosting.cz. CZ)
1579503;1481159336;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A2C8FC5503BFD645E3509CCC14724B450F5A76F4BD4329A307F76444312ABDE0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1543...2509 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.168.112.80 (ssh-rsa key from 81.168.112.80 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
1579504;1481159336;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/29BAAA083699C2ABCFD0ED196201367CBA08B7AB03B3DF11757F8106ED70433B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1578...2667 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '140.184.132.47 (ssh-rsa key from 140.184.132.47 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (spec2.smu.ca. CA NS)
1579505;1481159337;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/12410CE4CD32008ABBD7B02A78C2E2EFB40A518866B52C2DFC884623E0DC5EA3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2613...1989 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.117.28.54 (ssh-rsa key from 217.117.28.54 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip-217-117-28-54.bnk.lt. LT)
1579506;1481160193;thestringpuller;!~later tell cazalla I see you playing pokemon moon!
1579507;1481160193;jhvh1;thestringpuller: The operation succeeded.
1579508;1481160655;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579485 << to what is this regarding?
1579509;1481160655;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 00:33 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: you and a few others :P
1579510;1481162623;ben_vulpes;danielpbarron: http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/#selection-279.0-284.0
1579511;1481162894;danielpbarron;oh, re: wotpaste and lynx? yeah i recently discovered that most non-tmsr sites won't even load on a "sane" computer (for example a gentoo with asciilifeform's crib sheet applied)
1579512;1481162946;ben_vulpes;i eventually gave up on making the mimisbrunnr block renditions look acceptable in lynx
1579513;1481163084;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579511 << plox to elaborate danielpbarron
1579514;1481163084;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 02:08 danielpbarron: oh, re: wotpaste and lynx? yeah i recently discovered that most non-tmsr sites won't even load on a "sane" computer (for example a gentoo with asciilifeform's crib sheet applied)
1579515;1481163084;shinohai;I use wotpaste w/out browser, thanks to ben_vulpes help a few weeks back
1579516;1481163099;asciilifeform;which browsers didja try
1579517;1481163116;asciilifeform;and what means 'won't even load' ?
1579518;1481163124;danielpbarron;i don't even care what it looks like, at least it got served. these other sites give an error in lieu of the requested page, something about unsupported browser
1579519;1481163146;asciilifeform;tried anything that wasn't lynx...?
1579520;1481163186;asciilifeform;... tried lynx with fudged useragent?
1579521;1481163206;danielpbarron;come to think of it, that probablem happened with openbsd on a powerpc using firefox
1579522;1481163230;danielpbarron;i don't think i even have a browser on this gentoo one, besides lynx
1579523;1481163276;danielpbarron;can't emerge chromium because of the masked packages
1579524;1481163583;asciilifeform;post the barf plox
1579525;1481163605;danielpbarron;the emerge barf?
1579526;1481163710;ben_vulpes;spam done with, pls to forgive
1579527;1481163755;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: aha
1579528;1481164053;danielpbarron;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aCKhB/?raw
1579529;1481164192;asciilifeform;ick
1579530;1481164204;asciilifeform;iirc something quite similar happened when i tried.
1579531;1481164296;asciilifeform;seems like if we want a graphical wwwtron -- will have to 'trb' one.
1579532;1481164303;asciilifeform;perhaps good project for danielpbarron .
1579533;1481164338;asciilifeform;chromium is prolly the only logical feedstock for such an attempt. afaik.
1579534;1481164369;asciilifeform;(single-threaded wwwtrons with 'fire' in the name can go and die in a fire, yesterday, and it won't be soon enough)
1579535;1481164370;mircea_popescu;o look, mimi's brunnr!
1579536;1481164374;danielpbarron;doubtful. I wouldn't know where to start, nor do i care to have one. whatever is worth reading should work in lynx, and the rest works on my phone
1579537;1481164391;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: ah if you don't need such a thing - then your gentoo is ready for battlefield, neh
1579538;1481164400;danielpbarron;yeah i'm happy with it
1579539;1481164400;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: certainly ain't her brudder
1579540;1481164409;danielpbarron;runs eulora perfectly
1579541;1481164418;asciilifeform;neato
1579542;1481164420;danielpbarron;ditto, trb
1579543;1481164428;mircea_popescu;phf there's a who and a what. traditional societies put the what in an equivalency ring and discern the who ; modernist societies put the who in an equivalency ring and discern the what.
1579544;1481164433;asciilifeform;trb is static and will run on literally any linux
1579545;1481164440;mircea_popescu;let's look at it through the example of the married woman.
1579546;1481164490;mircea_popescu;married woman in belgium, a modernist society, expects to fuck her husband, or another man (ie, the who is indifferent) PROVIDED they woo her properly. the what is discerning, and "i fucked him because he bought me roses just like you did 20 years ago you pig" is perfectly "rational".
1579547;1481164557;mircea_popescu;married woman in brunei, a traditionalist society, expects to be fucked, in the way which fucking goes (ie, indifferent), by her husband but not by another man. and if her husband fucks with a stick, or with electrified vaginal pears, it's none of her business ; much like the belgian woman might fuck another woman, or a cat or a bit of plastic, just as long as it DOES the right thing - the brunei woman will fuck in whichever
1579548;1481164557;mircea_popescu;manner as long as it IS the right thing.
1579549;1481164582;mircea_popescu;excess is actually repressed : for instance the husband that fails to what correctly in belgium goes to jail ; much like the lover that fails to who correctly in brunei.
1579550;1481164610;mircea_popescu;in belgium "but i am her husband" is no defense, but on the contrary, scandalous ; and in brunei "but i fucked her right" is no defense, but on the contrary, scandalous.
1579551;1481164683;mircea_popescu;the major problem of contemporaneous, post-modern, post-structuralist whatever world is that the practical equivalency class is the what, not the who. such as for instance : as long as the product is a web app, you know what shit it will be and all you care about is WHO. which is why we have the entire who structure of code inheritance, much to the chagrin of the "oh noes, wasn't invented here syndrome" belated modernists.
1579552;1481164713;mircea_popescu;anyone can make "a prediction" (what=equivalent) but it really matters WHO makes it, as per the pro idiotas article.
1579553;1481164715;mircea_popescu;and so on.
1579554;1481164733;mircea_popescu;so it's not a matter of reversal. it's a matter that the practical structures of reality favour a certain equivalency class over the other.
1579555;1481164740;BingoBoingo;In other real estate for alf tastes http://commercial.century21.com/listing/1308-main-carbondale-il-62901-REN026859036
1579556;1481164762;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if i had 600k i'd buy a mig ffs
1579557;1481164786;asciilifeform;beats the shit out of old roach motel or what is that.
1579558;1481164944;BingoBoingo;Not sure what that was exactly. Kinda looks like "shopping center" being shopped as warehouse
1579559;1481165164;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fwiw circle has been going out of business for 3 years now.
1579560;1481165179;asciilifeform;i confess! that i had only the foggiest notion of what it was
1579561;1481165188;asciilifeform;assumed 'coinbase/stamp/etc tentacle'
1579562;1481165208;mircea_popescu;nah, more like square.
1579563;1481165218;asciilifeform;sooo a bitpay..?
1579564;1481165222;mircea_popescu;nah, an app.
1579565;1481165253;mircea_popescu;the airbnb scammers originally "promoted" it by plastering "handmade comics/ezine" on cheap whitelabel cereal boxes.
1579566;1481165283;mircea_popescu;you gotta understand how the fiat "creative" scam works. like this : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579011
1579567;1481165283;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 14:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, the way "tech" works in the us aka sv is very simply : get the "hipster ass rorbros" on the wagon, then sell them out later for mass market.
1579568;1481165297;mircea_popescu;these dudes tried to "leverage" whatever they could think of to "achieve network effects" and bla bla.
1579569;1481165341;mircea_popescu;usually, it doesn't work. it is certainly a thinking man's coming of age, when he finally develops a skin : that keeps this sort of bacteria at bay, and that still allows copulation with the other humans.
1579570;1481165371;mircea_popescu;old people are notoriously bad at this, go through the world a living zoological museum, collection of numerous fungi and no copulation.
1579571;1481165468;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579497 << you think as what you are. to first generation in shoes country girl, going back to the village so all the other girls could feel equal to her was "death" in exactly the same sense, and she'd suck a truck through a cocktail straw to avoid it. here she is : http://trilema.com/2011/deci-de-revelion-acum-niste-ani/
1579572;1481165468;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 00:55 phf: not sure how reversion follows though. it's easy to run away into the forest, because it's completely meaningless. but running away into tradition is equivalent to death (per older thread). "destruction of known universe"
1579573;1481165476;asciilifeform;http://danluu.com/sounds-easy << related (warning! entomologists only!) lul.
1579574;1481165531;mircea_popescu;so in short, i don't even mean that it's inevitable with you or without you. it's inevitable with or without your mental constructs. the body will follow.
1579575;1481165558;mircea_popescu;what, you think people fought in us civil war without their scruples ? the body went ; the scruples - nobody asked anything.
1579576;1481165595;mircea_popescu;~everyone involved in ww2 thought ww2 is a stupid idea, for that matter. all the better for them!
1579577;1481165635;asciilifeform;folx who get set on fire probably also do not particularly think much of the joys of being on fire...
1579578;1481165644;mircea_popescu;in short, your at ease notion of you and the actual perceptible, historical fact of you are very tenuously bridged, and that bridge is especially dependent on the "at ease" part.
1579579;1481165686;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from whence comes the notion tha tthey are bridged ?
1579580;1481165688;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform certainly. but the fact is that most ww2 combatants did not fight at home ; or in their neighbourhood ; or even city. except perhaps it could be argued for the fins.
1579581;1481165708;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform from a comfortable life.
1579582;1481165736;asciilifeform;even laziest, most 'comfortable' folx, still understand that the next day piano could fall, bus -- run over, etc. neh ?
1579583;1481165743;asciilifeform;and that it'll have 0 to do with 'self-concept' they had
1579584;1481165771;mircea_popescu;this is not the matter. most girls understand, somewhere deep down, that if i come in and grab them by the hair and drag them to their cell they will at the very least love the child they conceive, and eventually learn to live the cell.
1579585;1481165781;mircea_popescu;just, this knowledge of the cunt is amply repressed in most cases.
1579586;1481165844;mircea_popescu;to some degree "society" needs them to for its definition of them to be fulfilled ; to a larger degree the currently fashionable notions of self require them to as well. but anyway - people will lvie everywhere, and historically have.
1579587;1481165930;mircea_popescu;still, the effects are often funny - you can get most 15 yos to agree that they'll "never turn out like their mothers" or "die before they're old" or such manifestations of the subjective sentiment of bridging.
1579588;1481166007;asciilifeform;you could probably get typical idiot cow to agree that 4 == 5 on odd tuesdays, without breaking a sweat
1579589;1481166031;mircea_popescu;even non-idiots spend relatively little time figuring out "improductive" things of this sort.
1579590;1481166072;mircea_popescu;and then end up surprised by the nobody could have predicted and write nobel-prize literature about it.
1579591;1481166094;mircea_popescu;(no, it's not just hussein bahamas. the whole thing is predicated on suckage, exactly the same ~sort~ of suckage.)
1579592;1481166476;asciilifeform;unrelatedly,
1579593;1481166494;asciilifeform;anybody here familiar with mosis ( https://www.mosis.com ) ? used it ? knows anyone who has ? etc
1579594;1481166520;asciilifeform;i could've sworn we had a thread
1579595;1481166539;asciilifeform;( hm, looks like here it was, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-14#1274013 )
1579596;1481166539;a111;Logged on 2015-09-14 17:54 trinque: mosis.com was the one I found somebody talking about getting a run done for a few k
1579597;1481166810;BingoBoingo;Perhaps more to alf taste, GIANT CONCRETE TANKS! http://commercial.century21.com/listing/1051-wall-street-carbondale-il-62901-REN025580641
1579598;1481166827;asciilifeform;'cmp', the other co. linked from trinque's old link, has actual PRICES!111 -- http://cmp.imag.fr/IMG/pdf/cmp_prices_schedule_sept-16.pdf
1579599;1481166834;*;asciilifeform floored
1579600;1481166848;mircea_popescu;pretty cool eh!
1579601;1481166908;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: wai so cheap
1579602;1481166916;asciilifeform;tanstaafl!!!
1579603;1481166985;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Jaggx/?raw=true ( earlier link )
1579604;1481166987;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Prolly a bitch to insure with the Giant concrete tanks being attractive nuissance and all. Also demo cost to other buyers would likely suck
1579605;1481167042;asciilifeform;'CMP handles about 40 different design kits (corresponding to different technologies and different CAD tools), which are sent to customers upon signature of a Confidentiality and License Agreement.' << derpderp
1579606;1481167083;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579521 << i must say "probablem" is actually remarkably act for the sort of problems one encounters in the post-determinist software world.
1579607;1481167083;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 02:13 danielpbarron: come to think of it, that probablem happened with openbsd on a powerpc using firefox
1579608;1481167104;mircea_popescu;apt*
1579609;1481167448;mircea_popescu;karatkievich, that's a new one.
1579610;1481167492;asciilifeform;sure is
1579611;1481167500;asciilifeform;and afaik 1st new box since i tuned in
1579612;1481167524;asciilifeform;before this, they only died
1579613;1481167547;mircea_popescu;apparently the devil pact cleared.
1579614;1481167786;mircea_popescu;"What would Lucene at Google’s size look like? If we do a naive back of the envelope calculation on what it would take to index a significant fraction of the internet (often estimated to be 1 trillion (T) or 10T documents), we might expect a 1T document index to cost something like $10B1. That’s not a feasible startup, so let’s say that instead of trying to index 1T documents, we want to maintain an artisanal search ind
1579615;1481167786;mircea_popescu;ex of 1B documents. Then our cost comes down to $12M/yr." << this danluu piece is the most idiotic thing i read all day. what the fuck has "cloud" done to these people that they think a 1bn index cost A MILLION A MONTH holy shit.
1579616;1481167803;asciilifeform;hey it came with warning!1111
1579617;1481167847;mircea_popescu;insanity.
1579618;1481167996;mircea_popescu;he also manages to argue both ends at the same time - we apparently both underestimate how many low hanging fruit there are AND at the same time just how high these low hanging fruit actually come. hurr.
1579619;1481168058;mircea_popescu;and after all that engineering optimization companies care bla bla song and dance ? "So there are definitely more than ten million unique terms on the entire internet! In fact, there’s a website out there that has all primes under one trillion. I believe there are something like thirty-seven billion of those. If that website falls into one shard of our index, we’d expect to see more than thirty-seven billion terms in a si
1579620;1481168058;mircea_popescu;ngle shard ; that’s more than most people guess we’ll see on the entire internet, and that’s just in one shard that happens to contain one somewhat pathological site."
1579621;1481168083;mircea_popescu;really fucker, your engineers that pay for themselves by the score haven't figured out that YOU DO NOT INDEX TERMS LONGER THAN ABOUT A DOZEN CHARACTERS ?
1579622;1481168107;mircea_popescu;holy shit, people can barely type out their name without reaching for a napkin to clear the drool, i'm going to index the 5 billionth prime number as such.
1579623;1481168134;mircea_popescu;because i run a farm for idiot us-born capons in haskell on cloud and pay 12mn/year for a 1bn items index.
1579624;1481168222;mircea_popescu;motherfucker!
1579625;1481168283;mircea_popescu;verbatim from article : "And others type in what they think of as normal queries for their day-to-day work even if they seem weird to you (e.g., a biologist might query for GTGACCTTGGGCAAGTTACTTAACCTCTCTGTGCCTCAGTTTCCTCATCTGTAAAATGGGGATAATA)." here's that search : https://archive.is/oB6U3
1579626;1481168306;mircea_popescu;apparently... a BIOLOGIST might NOT search for that ; an imbecile pretending to be a computer engineer however would.
1579627;1481168362;mircea_popescu;this is an eminent case of "Yes, yes, I know how it's doublespoken - socialism is not about them making their own lives better. It's all about making "other people's lives" better. Because it's so selfless and "good" and - most importantly! - because it can't be measured. If they dedicated themselves to making their own lives better, there'd be a definitive authority to say when they failed. But if they instead pretend to be
1579628;1481168363;mircea_popescu;all about making "other people's" lives better - well! Should anyone claim they failed they can just change the "other people", can't they! The socialist electorate, always and everywhere ein anderes. That enchanted, imaginary public which supports you (from a safe distance) in your quest as you destroy the little you actually have."
1579629;1481168431;mircea_popescu;he's solved the problems other people might have, on the basis of what he imagines a biologist might do, which is so pointedly not what any biologist ever does you can scarcely begin to wonder what fucking highschool the author frequented, because his mental furniture seems to have diverged from the common trunk somewhere around the age of NEGATIVE THIRTEEN,
1579630;1481168445;mircea_popescu;and all this at a cost to me of 12mn a year for NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.
1579631;1481168452;mircea_popescu;motherfucker i want to kill this idiot.
1579632;1481168533;mircea_popescu;!!rate dan luu -10 unrecoverable imbecile. this rating carries to first order descendants - if you're the offspring of dan luu please kill yourself.
1579633;1481168533;*;deedbot hands you a broomstick.
1579634;1481168788;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/bitcoin-price-outlook-magenta-possible-in-2017/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Price Outlook: Magenta Possible In 2017
1579635;1481168930;mircea_popescu;is magenta a large qty of price ?
1579636;1481169124;mircea_popescu;so according to the dude over at nullspace.io, bing has "20% of market share" according to some apparently public available sources. let's add to that : out of the ~0.9 %~ of trilema traffic that came from a search engine so far this year, 127,291 came from google and 2,666 came from bing.
1579637;1481169132;mircea_popescu;that... doesn't sound to me like 20%. more like 2%.
1579638;1481169165;mircea_popescu;but as the man points out - mostr of that reach comes from windows, ie and "strategic partners" a la http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-you-dont-know-or-understand-about-facebook-everything/
1579639;1481169221;mircea_popescu;which leads us to a new heuristic : the closer the search engine mix on your site is to bing having 20%, the more drool your "userbase" contributes to their immediate environment on a daily basis.
1579640;1481169270;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> is magenta a large qty of price ? << It is a bright kinda fruity color of price
1579641;1481169287;mircea_popescu;gaiety prevails!
1579642;1481169305;BingoBoingo;4srs
1579643;1481170150;mircea_popescu;http://nickcraver.com/blog/2016/03/29/stack-overflow-the-hardware-2016-edition/ << mildly interesting, mostly because unlike ~everyone else in the web  game nick carver is literate.
1579644;1481170168;mircea_popescu;but it DOES turn out that the upper range of stack exchange hardware is ~50% more ram than phuctor. so...  nyah.
1579645;1481170500;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i read the 'google' link, could think of only http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575868 , unique kunstkammer specimen
1579646;1481170500;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 19:16 mircea_popescu: "mice were found in germany which is a country that once invaded the soviet union where lenin introduced electricity which goes through tubes in which tubes today in england most mices live." "OH NOW IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE!!!"
1579647;1481170527;asciilifeform;hence posted. somewhere there live such people as the author!! what goes on in their heads? 'i am an acorn!!'
1579648;1481170613;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didja notice for what he uses '~50% more ram than phuctor' ?
1579649;1481170621;asciilifeform;'VM Servers (VMWare, Currently)'
1579650;1481170632;asciilifeform;ahahah yes , 'let's run 10,001 instances of shitlinux!'
1579651;1481170635;asciilifeform;on one box!
1579652;1481170644;asciilifeform;because mother dropped us when we were small
1579653;1481170799;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8BD5120D4A95C75642CBB2D873E33FBC3C68B0FA4C2E02A493BC34DAEFE2664F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1621...7127 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.254.204.80 (ssh-rsa key from 213.254.204.80 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1579654;1481170799;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EEE6B1521D93CE1983B98DAC3DDEC4D3B74D2316105ADF8BE6E9F18555E34512 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1365...6699 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.38.64.200 (ssh-rsa key from 84.38.64.200 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server200.serverflex.de. DE)
1579655;1481170831;asciilifeform;http://server200.serverflex.de/user/index.php << lel
1579656;1481171017;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha! i said!
1579657;1481171073;mircea_popescu;or i guess i didn';t say. but i meant to say!
1579658;1481171081;asciilifeform;brain-melting.
1579659;1481171135;mircea_popescu;i'd kinda like to see all these "engineers" (who, as per some random douche working for microsoft, can not be found because most "relevancy engineers" as if that's a thing already work at google) would run phuctor on.
1579660;1481171254;mircea_popescu;they run in circles of their own design and then complain about the results. it's like a scene spitefully drawn by rochester.
1579661;1481171302;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "All servers are connected by 2 or more 10Gb network links in active/active LACP."
1579662;1481171304;mircea_popescu;but... why ?
1579663;1481171332;asciilifeform;i have monumentally nfi why
1579664;1481171339;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/29BAAA083699C2ABCFD0ED196201367CBA08B7AB03B3DF11757F8106ED70433B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1434...8917 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '140.184.132.47 (ssh-rsa key from 140.184.132.47 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (spec2.smu.ca. CA NS)
1579665;1481171342;mircea_popescu;i mean the only thing this says is "we suck at system design"
1579666;1481171355;mircea_popescu;yes, your front end should run whatever, 18 bn terragigs or anything you can find
1579667;1481171373;mircea_popescu;but if your backend needs MULTIPLE 10g ports you're doing something wrong.
1579668;1481171454;asciilifeform;actually i worked once in certain place where we had dozens of 10g portz --- but there was a logical reason
1579669;1481171468;mircea_popescu;of course this leads them to buying no less than two cisco 5596UP. that's 25 grand.
1579670;1481171475;asciilifeform;(buncha boxes pxebooting from lan simultaneously, round the clock, for shitware analysis)
1579671;1481171490;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they run a qntra!
1579672;1481171750;mircea_popescu;mkay, so they use a dozen server and a coupla sql ; grossly misprovisioned networking infrastructure and whatevs. whole setup should be about 50k.
1579673;1481171879;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/12410CE4CD32008ABBD7B02A78C2E2EFB40A518866B52C2DFC884623E0DC5EA3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1535...8763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.117.28.54 (ssh-rsa key from 217.117.28.54 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip-217-117-28-54.bnk.lt. LT)
1579674;1481176040;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1579675;1481176047;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 766.36, vol: 4806.11493697 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 758.387, vol: 3488.09214 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 765.78, vol: 10231.54029497 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 774.02763, vol: 935485.94050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 767.358, vol: 842.78398918 | Volume-weighted last average: 773.837638236
1579676;1481176704;BingoBoingo;!!up ser
1579677;1481176705;deedbot;ser voiced for 30 minutes.
1579678;1481176725;ser;:)
1579679;1481177318;BingoBoingo;8=====D
1579680;1481177631;ser;i'm just a silent reader
1579681;1481177712;BingoBoingo;Who is your daddy and what does he do?
1579682;1481177817;ser;an architect. he is dying at the moment
1579683;1481177841;ser;because of tobacco addiction
1579684;1481177871;BingoBoingo;That's very sad.
1579685;1481177915;BingoBoingo;Hope he finds Peace.
1579686;1481177918;ser;i told him to quit dozens years ago
1579687;1481178160;BingoBoingo;Addiction is weird.
1579688;1481178236;ser;especially such stupid one
1579689;1481178418;BingoBoingo;It's easy to become powerless over nicotine, but very hard to see how it makes life unmanageable until the end.
1579690;1481178509;ser;it's like taking a 140y mortgage :)
1579691;1481178633;BingoBoingo;!!up ser
1579692;1481178633;deedbot;ser voiced for 30 minutes.
1579693;1481178660;BingoBoingo;Nah, for most people if you get a low interest rate 140 year mortgage is great. Very low payments.
1579694;1481178702;ser;but grandchildren are not being asked if they like it, as they are usually unborn
1579695;1481178783;BingoBoingo;Grandchildren get it even better because inflation. Movie tickets used to cost a nickle!
1579696;1481178823;ser;swedish parliament recently limited mortgages to 105 years maximum only
1579697;1481178908;BingoBoingo;That's only six years longer than "traditional" maximum lease!
1579698;1481179389;ser;Royal Bank of Scotland did not pass "stress tests" whaterver it means
1579699;1481179423;ser;what is your estimation - how much money is lacking?
1579700;1481179446;ser;XX billions, XXX billions, XXXX billions?
1579701;1481179839;ben_vulpes;there are only 21 million bitcoin, so if they're that short they may be in a bit of a tight spot
1579702;1481179882;BingoBoingo;brb, sleep
1579703;1481183612;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/08/a-brief-discourse-on-sovereignty/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A brief discourse on sovereignty.
1579704;1481189785;diana_coman;mircea_popescu> diana_coman for some reason it decided i'm anonymous lol. <- fixed; weird though, as I can't seem to be able to reproduce whatever the issue was
1579705;1481195968;Framedragger;random question: have there been considerations for introducing financial instruments to eulora at some point, for trade etc? just curious
1579706;1481195973;Framedragger;!#s futures eulora
1579707;1481195973;a111;0 results for "futures eulora", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=futures%20eulora
1579708;1481195980;Framedragger;!#s derivatives eulora
1579709;1481195981;a111;1 result for "derivatives eulora", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=derivatives%20eulora
1579710;1481201812;diana_coman;Framedragger, you are probably better off searching the logs of the eulora channel
1579711;1481201890;diana_coman;I vaguely recall some discussion touching a bit on that
1579712;1481202128;Framedragger;diana_coman: ah, good idea, thanks :)
1579713;1481202667;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5AB617368C211177E70A6D35E959F5F5D02B25D9A6AE8A81E3291C4BE369B494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2192...4261 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '219.83.84.138 (ssh-rsa key from 219.83.84.138 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID BA)
1579714;1481202667;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E29C622D65A4E5719E5E2D2F15B59462D2AC218BB9C28FF2CC1C1E43AA1B95B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2379...9311 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.19.16.165 (ssh-rsa key from 46.19.16.165 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (svn1.ez.no. NO)
1579715;1481206195;mircea_popescu;diana_coman issue might have been my accidentally leaving field empty.
1579716;1481207963;mircea_popescu;ser> what is your estimation - how much money is lacking? << more than exists, basically.
1579717;1481207997;mircea_popescu;ie, if the govt prints ten times what rbs has and gives it to them, it will improve nothing, just increase the "how much more they need" by a factor of tenish.
1579718;1481208278;*;mircea_popescu has the pleasure to introduce EDLionX , who's chinese, lives in brunei and looks altogether like a great kid (though he isn't a kid!)
1579719;1481208291;EDLionX;uhh
1579720;1481208293;EDLionX;heyy all
1579721;1481208308;EDLionX;I'm not a Kid
1579722;1481208314;EDLionX;that's all
1579723;1481208326;*;diana_coman is waiting for BingoBoingo to ask "who's your daddy?"
1579724;1481208349;mircea_popescu;EDLionX can you translate from chinese ?
1579725;1481208401;EDLionX;sure
1579726;1481208425;EDLionX;what ya need bossman
1579727;1481208427;mircea_popescu;a that's nice to know.
1579728;1481208441;mircea_popescu;not right now, but occasionally there's news items that get poorly translated to en by idiots
1579729;1481208450;mircea_popescu;actually BingoBoingo what was that thing vaguely mentioned on qntra recently ?
1579730;1481208525;EDLionX;alright
1579731;1481208566;asciilifeform;in other noose, https://threatpost.com/hackers-gamify-ddos-attacks-with-collaborative-platform/122290/
1579732;1481208642;mircea_popescu;doh.
1579733;1481208652;mircea_popescu;i thought they gamified with the "loic" thing a decade ago
1579734;1481208698;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform https://archive.is/rSEYe << whats with all the bs sites that don't work
1579735;1481208714;Framedragger;EDLionX: there's a bunch of boxes with factored ssh keys, would be great for someone to go through them and check what webserver crap they're running... http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574580 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574597 if interested, go ahead :p
1579736;1481208714;a111;Logged on 2016-11-29 16:35 asciilifeform: http://67.18.208.92 << 'Partido Obrero   Secretaria de Prensa'
1579737;1481208714;a111;Logged on 2016-11-29 16:50 asciilifeform: anyway, i have neither the time (presently grunting out a much-delayed and urgent item) nor inclination to do the entire backlog (what, 800 of these?! by now) by hand.
1579738;1481208730;Framedragger;see ip addresses in this list, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored
1579739;1481208743;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nfi, perhaps overzealous ip blok ban
1579740;1481208751;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've run into quite a few of these
1579741;1481208755;mircea_popescu;Framedragger he's an english/math teacher not a coder from what i gather.
1579742;1481208760;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suspect bad https.
1579743;1481208812;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: no coding really needed, mind you! at least not for this 'phase' of analysis. but ya sure
1579744;1481208825;EDLionX;oh hey yeah Frame, no offense, but you just completely assblasted me
1579745;1481208999;Framedragger;hmm, a rather visual answer, fair nuff :p well, glory awaits someone!
1579746;1481209040;mircea_popescu;Framedragger really, shouldn't just run the scan on port 80 ?
1579747;1481209151;Framedragger;the particular scanner used for extracting pubkeys is not meant for that kind of stuff, but.. the first phase thing ("check who's alive") can grab banners, yeah.. would require fiddling (connections would become stateful, right now first phase uses 'SYN cookies') but ya sure possible
1579748;1481209160;Framedragger;i guess i should rerun the scanner at some point at any rate
1579749;1481210131;mircea_popescu;i suppose even something as simple as curl $item would work really huh.
1579750;1481210307;Framedragger;for some initial additional data, i think so yeah..
1579751;1481210316;mircea_popescu;no i mean, to see if live webserver.
1579752;1481210392;mircea_popescu;cat iplist.txt | while read ip; do curl -A "blabla" "http://$ip/" > results.txt; done
1579753;1481210429;Framedragger;(ah. suresure. well if one plans to do that on millions of machines or more, better to use simple tcp sockets hm. say that masscan for 1st phase uses its own tcp stack to not exhaust kernel handles accidentally, etc...)
1579754;1481210449;mircea_popescu;afaik the phuctor list is like 1k or so ips by now no ?
1579755;1481210466;Framedragger;yes, something like that.
1579756;1481210574;Framedragger;(1319)
1579757;1481210581;shinohai;Just waiting to be Framedragged: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxk9H4eUcAE7xCv.jpg
1579758;1481210636;mircea_popescu;that ssd 3 hui gate is not bad either.
1579759;1481210675;Framedragger;HuiGate? so like, a pussy?
1579760;1481210684;*;Framedragger just made a shitty .ru joke and is very proud of it
1579761;1481210762;mircea_popescu;ikr ?
1579762;1481211204;mircea_popescu;diana_coman https://instagram.fsst1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/15403578_1040577492731424_4285726398984749056_n.jpg << this look like anything to you ?
1579763;1481211262;diana_coman;bwahahhaa; when we were made pioneers we had this picture by the flag thing
1579764;1481211276;diana_coman;quite the same, esp the face of that guy
1579765;1481211350;diana_coman;"cultural production capacity"
1579766;1481211481;mircea_popescu;it is still alive!
1579767;1481211499;mircea_popescu;including the fucking machined rug. everything.
1579768;1481211537;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the things to scan, that very often are found: 80 (http), 443 (ssl), and if either found, the page; if ssl -- the cert id strings (see l0gz for how) , and lastly, ftp (yes, believe or now) and telnet greetings.
1579769;1481211552;diana_coman;clearly, yes; tbh I had this uneasy feeling of totally back to the 80's when I went to Belarus some ...hm, 7 years ago already
1579770;1481211561;diana_coman;but I don't expect it really changed all that much either
1579771;1481211569;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a right, must not forget telnet.
1579772;1481211607;asciilifeform;but it only makes sense to do this to popped boxes, Framedragger's ssh scan requires just 1 SYN, but these other things - 10,001 times moar
1579773;1481211644;mircea_popescu;yes.
1579774;1481211654;*;mircea_popescu is too lazy to edit the bash above, but anyway
1579775;1481211707;asciilifeform;sshello=`timeout -k 0m 3s nc $ip 22`;
1579776;1481211722;asciilifeform;^ line from bash script, gives sshd greeting from $ip if exists
1579777;1481211772;asciilifeform;curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored | grep "ssh-rsa key from" | cut -d' ' -f23 | sort | uniq
1579778;1481211781;asciilifeform;^ gives list of ips in question
1579779;1481211816;asciilifeform;e.g., for ip in `curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored | grep "ssh-rsa key from" | cut -d' ' -f23 | sort | uniq`; do  ...something with $ip..... done
1579780;1481211842;asciilifeform;more or less self-explanatory.
1579781;1481211879;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E29C622D65A4E5719E5E2D2F15B59462D2AC218BB9C28FF2CC1C1E43AA1B95B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1513...1869 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.19.16.165 (ssh-rsa key from 46.19.16.165 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (svn1.ez.no. NO)
1579782;1481212420;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5AB617368C211177E70A6D35E959F5F5D02B25D9A6AE8A81E3291C4BE369B494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...9417 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '219.83.84.138 (ssh-rsa key from 219.83.84.138 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID BA)
1579783;1481213031;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> actually BingoBoingo what was that thing vaguely mentioned on qntra recently ? << You'd have to be a bit more specific
1579784;1481213280;Framedragger;:D
1579785;1481214341;mircea_popescu;there was some badly translated "proceeds of miner conference" sometime earlier this year
1579786;1481214406;mircea_popescu;sadly that's about the extent of my recollection ;/
1579787;1481214433;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-03#1039158 << found it|!
1579788;1481214433;a111;Logged on 2015-03-03 01:48 BingoBoingo: So... Anyone here know chinese? Good enought to translate a Hand complete police report?
1579789;1481214857;BingoBoingo;Oh my
1579790;1481215697;mircea_popescu;and in today's "very early trilema article remarkably on point",  http://trilema.com/2011/ce-probleme-rezolva-ecologia/
1579791;1481215997;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re ^ and the part where the asian folk donated jewelry to motherland's central bank , quite reminiscent of the 'old woman who bought t-34 tank and named it after stalin and her five dead sons' recurring item in ww2
1579792;1481216008;mircea_popescu;aha.
1579793;1481216034;asciilifeform;i.e. i have nfi how many parts fact to how many parts propagandistic swill
1579794;1481216065;mircea_popescu;it seems credible to me qualitatively ; quantitatively i have nfi.
1579795;1481216084;asciilifeform;i can actually see the tank;
1579796;1481216097;asciilifeform;but, why the fuck would anyone donate family gold to prop up emperor's golden toilet
1579797;1481216133;mircea_popescu;because the emperor is ; in traditionalist societies existence is predicated on existence.
1579798;1481216153;mircea_popescu;why the fuck would cunt lubricate to ease penile intromission ?
1579799;1481216185;asciilifeform;in traditional society we also have 'emperor is far away, what care i'
1579800;1481216238;mircea_popescu;fuck i love this article. "Deci, ce probleme rezolva ecologia ? Niciunele. Ecologia se bucura insa de sprijinul institutional al statului ca justificare persuasiva si credibila a nevoii de-a reechilibra administrativ dezechilibre economice induse administrativ. Tot aceleasi probleme pe care le rezolva si psihologia," -> "So, what problems does ecology resolve ? No problems. Ecology simply enjoys institutional support of the [
1579801;1481216239;mircea_popescu;socialist] state as a persuasive and credible justification for the need to rebalance administratively imbalances induced administratively. same exact problems psychology resolves."
1579802;1481216244;asciilifeform;afaik standard feudal org chart works in steps (d00d answers to ~immediate~ commanding officer)
1579803;1481216257;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not really. ru peasant aslo thought emperor is good ; and right here.
1579804;1481216303;asciilifeform;good part of 'царь-батюшка' is that he never asks you directly to do anything
1579805;1481216320;mircea_popescu;this "what care i" is very much a proposal to modulate behaviour ; whereas this active diatesis is not there contemplated.
1579806;1481216322;asciilifeform;can always blame immediate superior for your famine, fleas, conscription
1579807;1481216327;mircea_popescu;"the emperor is ; this gold is ; they go together."
1579808;1481216334;phf;not quite true, you had лжецаревич uprisings
1579809;1481216344;asciilifeform;tru
1579810;1481216359;asciilifeform;analogous to chain forks..
1579811;1481216366;phf;also kind of tru re famine, but typically boyars were blamed rather then tzar or barin
1579812;1481216384;phf;since both were beyond reprise
1579813;1481216386;asciilifeform;well yes, you blame the d00d who actually worked you to the bone
1579814;1481216401;mircea_popescu;phf you did ; nevertheless - in the case of those runaways who were discovered in the 60s after however many centuries of absence, what figured greatly was that a) the tsar is good and b) that woe on random anon merchant for refusing to donate a quarter ton of potatoes to the cause.
1579815;1481216410;phf;no, no, i'm saying the opposite. ~barin~ in this case is the dude who worked you to the bone
1579816;1481216440;asciilifeform;goodcop/badcop symbiosis, landlord/emperor
1579817;1481216452;asciilifeform;reverse, rather
1579818;1481216476;mircea_popescu;and the fake ivans etc are not exactly attacks on the tsar ; they're just a discussion of identity , not actually a modernisation proposal.
1579819;1481216529;mircea_popescu;similar to the whole "mandate ofheaven" chinese thing - IS he or ISN'T he the "one true emperor" ; whether his being anything in particular matters with regards to "his job" ie, what he has to do is not discussed. even the notion that emperorhood is a job is nonsensical in context.
1579820;1481216583;asciilifeform;eh, semantic games. rebel armies surround capital? ooops, must mean he lost mandate of heaven!
1579821;1481216589;mircea_popescu;(for distinction between emperorhood and emperorship see http://trilema.com/2011/oamenii-superficiali-si-bestia/ )
1579822;1481216620;phf;i think i'm being misunderstood. i'm saying that fake-tzars were cases of "emperor asking of you", because both tzar and barin (i.e. immediate supervisor) were seen as fundamental good. peasants consistently and historically allocated blame on various random hangerons. boyars, traders, foreigners, etc. in fact in fake-tzar cases the narrative was consistent "evil boyars have deposed our tzar-father and we won't stand for it"
1579823;1481216623;asciilifeform;'mandate of heaven' is about as logically consistent as the proverbial witch-drowning tester
1579824;1481216627;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they're only semantic games to you ; for they to be games they need the optionality.
1579825;1481216649;mircea_popescu;phf this is very true yes.
1579826;1481216676;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when my time machine malfunctions and aztec priest eats my heart so that quetzalcoatl will shit the sun back out, it will still be semantic game.
1579827;1481216680;mircea_popescu;hence the "useful evil minister" strategy deployed in england and france as well as everywhere else - get the guy to do things then behead him.
1579828;1481216721;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so if i give you a lined mat and a pile of all black tiles you thereby "still have a game of go" ?
1579829;1481216817;asciilifeform;not as such. though mircea_popescu's asian rituals and 'no optionality' thread reminds me of the infamous 'castle tournaments' in jp, where go players would rehearse same game dozens of times in advance
1579830;1481216831;asciilifeform;( royal folk dun like to wait for moves ! )
1579831;1481216854;mircea_popescu;it's actually not a bad constraint.
1579832;1481216869;*;mircea_popescu frequently requires better go players to play very fast and train for it in advance.
1579833;1481216873;asciilifeform;and, BingoBoingo , this is 1000+ yrs before pro wrestling!!111
1579834;1481216883;mircea_popescu;just because i can't keep up with the horse doesn't mean it won't get its exercise. we have mechanics!
1579835;1481216890;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no, it wasn't even that they played 'blitz', but ~memorized game~
1579836;1481216895;asciilifeform;and simply tape-played it back.
1579837;1481216914;mircea_popescu;ah.
1579838;1481216928;mircea_popescu;no, my idea simply was "explore all the trees for my convenience".
1579839;1481216936;asciilifeform;( precious few folks played blitz go, it makes for atrocious games )
1579840;1481217025;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: serious aficionados today have proggies for browsing tree, e.g., 'kombilo'
1579841;1481217052;asciilifeform;( https://www.u-go.net/kombilo )
1579842;1481217081;mircea_popescu;getting back to the modern/traditional thing : there's a very visible and practically relevant distinction in trade. when i hire a modernist, i hire him to do a job, and i expect him to do a job. but when i hire a traditionalist, i am essentially assigning office. and as it is LOGICAL in that context, he may agree to any "job" specification ie burdens on the title before he gets it, while all he IS is humble applicant ; but o
1579843;1481217081;mircea_popescu;nce he gets it, once he IS the job title, then of course he finds himself in a more elevated position, which should mean by his logic that he gets to renegotiate and eliminate some of the burdens.
1579844;1481217105;mircea_popescu;which is exactly why simple minded folks in third countries such as argentina etc display the strange behaviour where they don't wish to actually work, first discussed in the article about whores
1579845;1481217142;asciilifeform;eh it's an orc thing, 'работа стоит -- а срок идет!' (tm) (r)
1579846;1481217165;mircea_popescu;( http://trilema.com/2010/romanul-si-comertul/#selection-75.56-75.175 )
1579847;1481217169;asciilifeform;('work stands still, but the [prison] sentence still moving!')
1579848;1481217191;asciilifeform;modify, perhaps, for modern world, 'work stands still, but the paycheque still approaches')
1579849;1481217191;mircea_popescu;aha. HOWEVER - which is why i bring all this up - the reversal is fucking evident here too.
1579850;1481217226;mircea_popescu;see, when I hire diana_coman to do dev work for eulora, OF FUCKING COURSE she gets to redefine the job on the basis of the title. because before she got it she hadn't seen the code, and after she had, for instance. or for any other reason.
1579851;1481217244;mircea_popescu;in short, in the entirety of the observable universe, we are reverting to traditionalist systems, approaches and altogether a reality.
1579852;1481217265;mircea_popescu;most computing jobs are unspecifiable in the terms most industrial jobs of the brief modernist interlude were specifiable.
1579853;1481217293;mircea_popescu;whereas most computing jobs require identity in terms entirely impossible in the brief modernist interlude. what cares the cotton ginny whether you are white or black skinned ?
1579854;1481217333;mircea_popescu;and this is what all the unicode wastage is : they, the lost souls of a dead world, are trying to make computers more like cotton ginnies. more inclusive, more capable to work with a modernist perspective, where who dun matter and what is considered.
1579855;1481217347;asciilifeform;did the sword 'care' whether knight came from 10 or 40 generations of pure-blooded norman ?
1579856;1481217350;asciilifeform;or did the horse ?
1579857;1481217353;mircea_popescu;yes. both.
1579858;1481217371;mircea_popescu;fundamental myth of english feudalism is a sword that cared.
1579859;1481217398;mircea_popescu;fundamental myth of english modernism is "blind love", which, if you'll notice, is at the time of its introduction a very cheap trick very much in the manner of protestantism ; and also a mythical beast :
1579860;1481217408;asciilifeform;and fundamental myth of pygmistan is that magical horn (today replaced with drainpipe, they forgot how to carve wood) that talks to the dead
1579861;1481217411;mircea_popescu;the belgian woman from before. "blind" as in, no who just what. a modernist unicorn.
1579862;1481217446;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pygmystan is not actually a culture ; stone age tribes don't get names.
1579863;1481217460;mircea_popescu;it's just "the stone age".
1579864;1481217479;asciilifeform;eh the bantu -- who enslaved them -- iirc had iron.
1579865;1481217487;asciilifeform;so just as iron-age as ol' rotten england
1579866;1481217494;asciilifeform;just stuck there.
1579867;1481217516;mircea_popescu;(the discussion of all this, for the curious, is probably best started with the trilema on the mind's compartments, http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ (
1579868;1481217540;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform iron age is ~norman conquest. industrial age is a different thing.
1579869;1481217544;asciilifeform;iron, turns out, is not such a handy 'iq test', plenty of folx passed the iron exam and failed everything else.
1579870;1481217637;asciilifeform;re 'cheap protestant tricks', and also in re 'argentinians who sit in chair and won't work', a good chunk of the weirdo mass-programming the protestants have been doing for 200+ yrs is precisely to 'make'em work'
1579871;1481217649;asciilifeform;there are not so many ways to make folks work.
1579872;1481217695;asciilifeform;you can prevent 'работа стоит -- а срок идет!' by imposing 'no work - no food' quotas, and this was often tried in gulag, but led to unexpected problems
1579873;1481217732;mircea_popescu;except there is no "work" in the abstract, as a byproduct of anti-idlehandsaredevilswork. not anymore.
1579874;1481217738;asciilifeform;(in 100 zeks, you get a few well-fed блатные and a bunch of dystrophic worker bees )
1579875;1481217749;mircea_popescu;back in 1616 there was a "do something - anything". today that results in github.
1579876;1481217819;mircea_popescu;and not just in github, it results in 5bn for BART's 16 track miles and in 12mn/year for 1bn database for microsoft.
1579877;1481217826;asciilifeform;and in egypt it resulted in pyramids
1579878;1481217828;mircea_popescu;in short - it dun work, in any practical way.
1579879;1481217840;asciilifeform;shithub is a religious ritual
1579880;1481217861;mircea_popescu;the Floating Littoral Embarassment is very much the symbolic product of "technology by modernist means in postmodernist times"
1579881;1481217867;asciilifeform;also pyramid.
1579882;1481217889;asciilifeform;if you have a massive project that nobody computes ROI on, and folks throw rotten eggs at anyone who suggests doing so --- pyramid.
1579883;1481217917;asciilifeform;( in all fairness, moon probe, arpanet, etc -- also pyramid )
1579884;1481217929;mircea_popescu;modernity hadn't quite ended yet.
1579885;1481217933;asciilifeform;(egyptian, rather than ponzi, pyramid)
1579886;1481218015;asciilifeform;and often i get distinct impression that mircea_popescu is posting from a parallel future on mars : where, e.g., robots are not three orders of magnitude more expensive than well-brainwashed 'work ethic' folx working with bare hands
1579887;1481218033;mircea_popescu;they aren't.
1579888;1481218112;asciilifeform;you gotta take the ~hardest~-to-roboticize industrial processes as the basis for comparison, not the ~easiest~;
1579889;1481218122;asciilifeform;otherwise we 'had cheap robots' in 1850, cotton mill
1579890;1481218130;mircea_popescu;there are a number of reasons for this. 1. robots eat electricity ; humans eat a sort of oil derivate ; see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577962 ; 2. robots are an industrial product, this costs ~nothing while "well brainwashed humans" are the equivalent of a "well behaved wife". tell you what, here's a half billion girlies in your "civilised world", you have a week to find a wife. let me know what you spent.
1579891;1481218130;a111;Logged on 2016-12-05 16:09 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577534 << the petrol engine is not well impedance-matched with anything, even auto wheels on asphalt ! hence the 'hybrids' thing
1579892;1481218271;asciilifeform;talk to folx who worked with industrial robots, dun take asciilifeform's word for it: robotization of a process is not 'magical free work while you supply mains current', but replaces 100 fungible gurlz with 1-3 'assembly line phd', which is not always a +ev trade
1579893;1481218297;asciilifeform;nor is yield necessarily higher, because Software Sucks
1579894;1481218320;mircea_popescu;i suspect i might've talked to more industrial robots folks than you have over our respective careers, but be that as it may, the trend is towards not away job destruction.
1579895;1481218357;asciilifeform;this is on account of easily-roboticized 'low hanging fruit' (e.g., pcb component placement) and also shortages of human hands created by welfarization
1579896;1481218385;mircea_popescu;the welfarization creates nothing. it is the maggot on the corpse of postmodern industry.
1579897;1481218390;mircea_popescu;those people would have been idle anyway.
1579898;1481218409;asciilifeform;take mircea_popescu's proverbial 'twerk chick'. her grandmother - was idle ?
1579899;1481218409;mircea_popescu;(kinda yet another angle of why the great again is so lulzy - what, economic trends will reverse by election ?)
1579900;1481218438;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no ; because modernism hadn't ended yet. but the chick herself - if she weren't twerking she'd be on reddit . there is literally NOTHING for her to do.
1579901;1481218459;mircea_popescu;with the exception of tmsr, there is NO PLACE in this world which sticks to the modern tradition of, "random bozo walks in, is given a job"
1579902;1481218479;mircea_popescu;this is how eg construction yards used to work, for milennia. not anymore, for decades now.
1579903;1481218581;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from whence then comes this 'nothing to do' ??
1579904;1481218592;mircea_popescu;from "robotization" in the general sense of the term.
1579905;1481218667;asciilifeform;this 'total robotization' thing, i can see it as a logical conclusion, but it isn't here yet. e.g., how many robots has mircea_popescu , to date, fucked ?
1579906;1481218678;mircea_popescu;fucking me is not a job. it is an honor.
1579907;1481218686;mircea_popescu;i've not decorated any robots either.
1579908;1481218712;asciilifeform;aite. when mircea_popescu called plumber, did robot show up ?
1579909;1481218740;mircea_popescu;amusingly - i used to call plumbers in places where plumbing had been laid by hand. but in places where plumbing laid by robot - no need so far.
1579910;1481218762;mircea_popescu;dat old ecosystem drives itself by supporting its niches and denying competing niches thing.
1579911;1481218773;asciilifeform;elaborate re 'plumbing laid by robot'
1579912;1481218790;asciilifeform;referring here to digging machine ? (a bit of stretch to call 1890s item 'robot')
1579913;1481218793;mircea_popescu;you are aware "car fixing" ie, "that is my idea of heaven - a bucket o' grease and a cracked cylinder" now consists of sticking probes in dataports ?
1579914;1481218816;asciilifeform;well yes, it consists of 'read error code and throw part # into order form and replace assembly'
1579915;1481218820;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, plumbing mostly comes as part of the prefab components of construction nowadays. is not separate thing.
1579916;1481218854;mircea_popescu;"robots" does not strictly mean r2d2. entirely automated process chain is also a robot in this sense, even if perhaps a meta-robot for they preoccupied with the physicality of things.
1579917;1481218886;mircea_popescu;ie - the visually driven notion of "robot" as "anthropomorphised tuna can" is not particularly useful in a discussion of economics and robots.
1579918;1481218918;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY << re prefab plumbing, oblig.
1579919;1481218969;mircea_popescu;heh. laugh all you want, and take refuge in 1970s artworks if you will - but the fact remains that if you buy planks you buy planks but if you buy ikea you buy robotized planks.
1579920;1481218984;mircea_popescu;it's what it is, out of the final table in the latter case about 2/3 is robot work.
1579921;1481219128;mircea_popescu;yes, there isn't a beep-boop thing going around your livingroom. but it might as well be - the warehouse is entirely robotized ; the production line mostly ; etcetera. even driving is going away.
1579922;1481219142;asciilifeform;actually there ~is~ , lol
1579923;1481219145;mircea_popescu;do you know how many longshoremen work for amazon ? o wait ... the name is entirely antiquated.
1579924;1481219172;*;asciilifeform robotization aficionado, has programmable vacuum, etc
1579925;1481219223;mircea_popescu;aha
1579926;1481219225;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: at no point in my head for this thread was 'tuna can', but the headaches of fairly standard industrial robot process over which i presided some years ago
1579927;1481219258;mircea_popescu;sure, but tell you what : the headaches of managing herd would be a lot closer in your mind had you i dunno, been a mcdonalds manager in your late teens.
1579928;1481219271;asciilifeform;quite possibly.
1579929;1481219279;mircea_popescu;there's no economic future for the average human, quite literally.
1579930;1481219311;mircea_popescu;for as long as we still feel like entertaining ourselves by providing them with food and board, the derpage will last. and they'll "put women back into history at the call of bbc wikipedia.
1579931;1481219326;asciilifeform;'robocalypse' is a when, not if, yes, but there are certain obstacles (mainly reducing to 'software sucks', and even 'we don't quite have computer yet')
1579932;1481219326;mircea_popescu;once that becomes old, they'll become dead, in a very starved and cold sense of the term.
1579933;1481219362;mircea_popescu;yes, well, that when is cca 1999.
1579934;1481219459;mircea_popescu;anyway - the original point was how the environment changed, and modernism is strictly no longer possible because exogenous reasons, not opened to consensusing electoralizing etc.
1579935;1481219476;mircea_popescu;the WHO is the major consideration ; the what is relatively equivalent.
1579936;1481219508;mircea_popescu;which reduces to and is in fact equivalent with the "no economic future for average human" above, and with the "there's nothing one can do on the simple basis of being one" even further above.
1579937;1481219554;asciilifeform;afaik we still dun have a tech for producing ubermenschen other than by keeping massive herd of 'average human' around somewhere
1579938;1481219574;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ << somewhere is important.
1579939;1481219598;asciilifeform;^ sorta how golden age su worked
1579940;1481219600;asciilifeform;roughly.
1579941;1481219623;mircea_popescu;(o look! the separation of the fat from the water in the sense of leaving the who-equivalent modernists behind in the gutter is actually quite the viscerally ferocious thing!)
1579942;1481219652;mircea_popescu;nobody is going to forbid modernism. they who wish to feel equal will have a place where this is how things works.
1579943;1481219698;mircea_popescu;(arguably this is also in the past - not like i'm actually forbidding redditards to reddit, even as i am squeezing the cream from the thing)
1579944;1481219729;asciilifeform;in mircea_popescu's sketch, by what process does 'who' come to exist ?
1579945;1481219752;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579718
1579946;1481219752;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 14:44 mircea_popescu has the pleasure to introduce EDLionX , who's chinese, lives in brunei and looks altogether like a great kid (though he isn't a kid!)
1579947;1481219760;mircea_popescu;how else ? exactly how it historically worked.
1579948;1481219770;asciilifeform;well yes, but how didja dig him out of the ground
1579949;1481219792;asciilifeform;asciilifeform, for instance, (for those who were not tuned in), was excavated from www by hanbot
1579950;1481219794;mircea_popescu;chance encounter.
1579951;1481219807;mircea_popescu;rather similar actually!
1579952;1481219839;mircea_popescu;eulora, with its steep learning curve and well engineered intake manifolds is actually a muchly improved bitcoin from THIS perspective.
1579953;1481219866;mircea_popescu;ie, "how to fish whos"
1579954;1481219876;asciilifeform;this may be, but i could not tell that this is so by the backflow from #e into #t
1579955;1481219889;mircea_popescu;hey. everything around you is new.
1579956;1481219935;mircea_popescu;still, the question was "how who" not "how non-who". that your milk contains fat and water is not a valid objection to "how do you get fat from the cow ?" "you milk it"
1579957;1481219997;*;asciilifeform not in eulora and cannot say
1579958;1481220050;asciilifeform;but so far looks to me as if it mostly attracts folk who are good at playing eulora, rather than generalists spilling over into the kinds of projects in motion here.
1579959;1481220079;asciilifeform;(exiles from other muds..?)
1579960;1481220587;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didja ever translate http://trilema.com/2010/minciuna-cosubstantiala ?
1579961;1481220605;asciilifeform;(early piece re 'promisetronics')
1579962;1481220983;mircea_popescu;i don't think i did no
1579963;1481221035;mircea_popescu;and i am entirely unconvinced by this "good at x" bs. nobody's "good at x". the "good at x" is nonsense of the ilk and period of "blind love", to try and help the wedge of who-equivalency into the trunk of reality.
1579964;1481221064;mircea_popescu;either your brain works or doesn't. if it does, you can use it for all brain things, much like either your cunt works or doesn't, and if it does it does for all dicks.
1579965;1481221079;mircea_popescu;there's no "good at math" anymore than there is "white dicks cunt"
1579966;1481221149;asciilifeform;did i miss rsa worst-case difficulty proof emerging from mircea_popescu's well-trained harem ?
1579967;1481221165;asciilifeform;how about cs equivalence to diffie hellman proof ?
1579968;1481221184;mircea_popescu;what sense does this make ?
1579969;1481221201;mircea_popescu;i also didn't see meat airplane borne out of the soviet maternity circuit. this proves something ?
1579970;1481221203;asciilifeform;if 'there is no good-at' and can train-anybody-to-anything with sufficient application of hot irons
1579971;1481221219;mircea_popescu;hot irons weren't mentioned.
1579972;1481221250;asciilifeform;even better
1579973;1481221260;trinque;and that a brain works does not mean that the requisite information for a particular has yet been jammed in.
1579974;1481221268;mircea_popescu;for one thing.
1579975;1481221291;mircea_popescu;"this cpu could do anything" "i don't see your sql server doing any dos emulation work" "nigga... wut ?!"
1579976;1481221325;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu surely was involved in some form of sport, at one time. or knew folks who were. did trainers take the approach 'either body works, or doesn't' ? or did they pick childrenz with the right body type for the contest
1579977;1481221342;mircea_popescu;laugh, but they very pointedly picked former approach.
1579978;1481221413;mircea_popescu;there was entirely no "picking" in romania, the romania that produced the first full 10 olympic  gymnasts. hundreds of thousands of kids ran into thousands of pe teachers who very pointedly "body works to it - now make it work to jump!"
1579979;1481221425;mircea_popescu;body works to eat*
1579980;1481221487;asciilifeform;having 10,000,001 kidz do somersaults is cheap
1579981;1481221490;mircea_popescu;the "nfl picks" usian system seemed very alien, and quite frankly wasteful, to the general mind. "americans will never amount to anything in sports" therefore.
1579982;1481221548;mircea_popescu;of course, this was in a time of general conscription and so forth. obviously things have changed - it is easier after all.
1579983;1481221567;mircea_popescu;and no, i have no argument - it is EASIER to think of yourself as "i am good at x" raqther than "brain works or doesn't work."
1579984;1481221590;mircea_popescu;now THAT easy-seeking habituation is what the hot irons are used for.
1579985;1481221738;asciilifeform;gymnasts may not be perfect example. when you have a role where the training per se is costly, you're stuck picking. e.g., pilots; i recently read a quite interesting autobio, 'Обречены на подвиг' ('condemned to heroism', roughly) by su flying d00d / instructor / colonel. described how children having any physical imperfection, even tooth cavity, were mercilessly rejected from flight academy even if they passed all of
1579986;1481221739;asciilifeform; the theoretical weedouts
1579987;1481221760;mircea_popescu;i personally prefer the "here's the book pile, go read whatever ; do something"
1579988;1481221764;mircea_popescu;why should i pick and why should i care.
1579989;1481221793;mircea_popescu;if you feel like anything good ; and if you feel like nothing in particular reddit's that way.
1579990;1481221834;asciilifeform;this is rather different statement than 'there are no good-ats, anyone can anything'
1579991;1481221842;mircea_popescu;but by all means, if you, trinque or anyone else feels like running su airpilot style court, your right and priviledge. i'm sure it'll work just fine.
1579992;1481221847;asciilifeform;reddit is full of folx who 'feel like nothing' because good-at nothing
1579993;1481221873;mircea_popescu;it's not like preference's forbidden or anything. i'm sure i'd be great at fucking dudes, too, i never fucked any nevertheless.
1579994;1481221895;mircea_popescu;the point is, that "i would suck at fucking dudes" is a very poor excuse and entirely rotten pillar of identity.
1579995;1481221984;asciilifeform;as soon as the cost of failure is >0, selection becomes a thing -- does mircea_popescu not carefully select harem ?
1579996;1481221996;mircea_popescu;nope. and what is the cost of failure ?
1579997;1481221996;Framedragger;http://shivankaul.com/blog/2016/12/07/clean-your-desk-yet-another-amazon-interview-experience.html
1579998;1481222050;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i am ill-equipped to describe it. but presumably there is a reason mircea_popescu has a harem, and not a human chick-sized 'cat door' to let in whoever.
1579999;1481222071;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine that whoever wanted to get in couldn't at least try.
1580000;1481222116;mircea_popescu;what exactly is the cost of failure ? is it some sort of "oh, i can't go talk to the girl in the bar" sort of crazy ?
1580001;1481222132;asciilifeform;how about 'burns house down'
1580002;1481222136;asciilifeform;'plants nsa bugs'
1580003;1481222138;asciilifeform;or similar.
1580004;1481222140;mircea_popescu;it's insured. heh ok.
1580005;1481222172;mircea_popescu;why would there be a THE HOUSE ? i don't subscribne to "let's all go to the same shitty island and make a georepublic" ima have a the house ?
1580006;1481222181;asciilifeform;proverbian the-house.
1580007;1481222184;asciilifeform;*proverbial
1580008;1481222207;mircea_popescu;so she burns down some apartment. the firepeople will put it out, the insurance people will pay for it and i guess the police people will take her to the doctorpeople or w/e.
1580009;1481222254;mircea_popescu;or if they don't because society broke down, i guess my guardpeople shoot her and throw the body to the dogs. either way.
1580010;1481222286;asciilifeform;and guards -- picked off the street, because anybody-can-anything? or selected for certain attributes ?
1580011;1481222306;mircea_popescu;both!
1580012;1481222316;asciilifeform;will mircea_popescu hire a blind d00d? missing trigger finger? or even one of BingoBoingo's patients ?
1580013;1481222335;mircea_popescu;as in, picked off the streets because anybody can anything and selected for certain attributes.
1580014;1481222337;BingoBoingo;Wait I have patients nao?
1580015;1481222341;mircea_popescu;what, i'ma only hire x school graduates like obama ? wtf am i , stupid.
1580016;1481222363;asciilifeform;'has 10 fingers' != 'has imperial diploma'
1580017;1481222379;mircea_popescu;picked off the streets == "not has imperial diploma"
1580018;1481222403;asciilifeform;now i'm stumped
1580019;1481222405;asciilifeform;elaborate ?
1580020;1481222425;mircea_popescu;how would i elaborate, you'e the one who's stumped. you elaborate.
1580021;1481222452;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: you have, now, patients ! probably you've done moar to cure gluttony than most medical men
1580022;1481222476;mircea_popescu;o.O
1580023;1481222479;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: random d00d 'from street' could indeed have 'imperial diploma' neh ?
1580024;1481222487;mircea_popescu;i imagine he could, sure.
1580025;1481222503;mircea_popescu;they usually don't walk the streets, being selected for a sort of pretentious lazyness, but anyway.
1580026;1481222508;asciilifeform;so i how do i parse 'picked off the streets == "not has imperial diploma"'
1580027;1481222521;asciilifeform;it eggogs in my head
1580028;1481222526;mircea_popescu;ah. "no shits given re imperial diploma"
1580029;1481222531;asciilifeform;aah aite.
1580030;1481222534;mircea_popescu;right.
1580031;1481222575;mircea_popescu;http://shivankaul.com/blog/2016/12/07/clean-your-desk-yet-another-amazon-interview-experience.html << this is some serious sf shit.
1580032;1481222596;*;mircea_popescu has walked out of numerous meetings etc, often offended, but never participated into SUCH INSANITY wtf.
1580033;1481222624;asciilifeform;this story makes 0 sense
1580034;1481222632;asciilifeform;why would they give exam on the d00d's comp, at ~his~ house
1580035;1481222658;mircea_popescu;dude i have nfi. because they're used to hiring camwhores ?
1580036;1481222674;asciilifeform;normally this kind of thing is done by inviting candidate to a locked booth after arse search etc
1580037;1481222705;mircea_popescu;yes but i guess they can't be arsed to deal with stuck in traffic peon / having to physically go to the peon pen etc
1580038;1481222792;asciilifeform;ah hm i think i get it
1580039;1481222796;asciilifeform;technical term is 'shit test'
1580040;1481222826;asciilifeform;'sir please locate a cucumber' 'now bend..'
1580041;1481222850;mircea_popescu;i guess the dude was just "getting his identity confirmed" or w/e KYC stuff.
1580042;1481222861;asciilifeform;selected. for obedience.
1580043;1481222887;mircea_popescu;i dunno, my selection-for-obedience process doesn't also select for comatose mental state simultaneously.
1580044;1481222892;mircea_popescu;anyway, bbl
1580045;1481225778;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/mIgMP/?raw=true
1580046;1481225778;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1580047;1481228684;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/yahoo-caulks-another-hole/ << Qntra - Yahoo Caulks Another Hole
1580048;1481232380;mats;😘
1580049;1481233301;mats;merp. friendo typed in my window
1580050;1481233491;trinque;lol
1580051;1481233528;*;trinque charitably assumes it was a chick blowing kisses at the Republic
1580052;1481233824;mod6;:]
1580053;1481235219;shinohai;http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/12/08/world/middleeast/ap-ml-iraq-mosul-ambush.html?_r=0   <<< urban warfare fail for Iraq army
1580054;1481235588;trinque;As Iraqi forces advanced toward the al-Salam hospital in Mosul earlier this week, encountering only light resistance from Islamic State fighters, commanders decided to seize the facility instead of sweeping the neighborhoods along the road leading to it.
1580055;1481235609;trinque;then later "elite forces"
1580056;1481238568;phf;asciilifeform: i didn't read that thread too close, but in japan they still seem to do "hire who not how" presumably successfully http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/
1580057;1481238571;phf;"The company will mold you to their exacting specifications to do whatever form of service they require. You will happily comply, in this as in all things. For example, if your company needs a Java-speaking systems engineer and you have a degree in Art History, this is not a problem because you can be fixed."
1580058;1481238659;phf;"Sure it might take ten years and only work on a quarter of the new hires but that’s why we employ you for 45 years and hire a hundred at once!"
1580059;1481239319;phf;and on the subject of japan and doing things right, gwern wrote about internet culture in japan http://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20Society#japan-and-the-internet he got everything wrong, but the subject is interesting
1580060;1481241420;BingoBoingo;In other customer complaints: "Bought a weed and grass killer. Used it according to instructions and it killed a linden tree and many plants. Ace does not seem to be responsible and turned me over to a David at spectrum who admitted that their product does damage."
1580061;1481243657;mircea_popescu;lol! dat "he got everything wrong but the subject is interesting".
1580062;1481244692;*;pete_dushenski is digging patrick mckenzie's blog
1580063;1481244734;pete_dushenski;it even has pgp pubkey block... gpg v1.4.10!
1580064;1481244778;phf;well, i suspect he's got his facts right, but the commentary is dodgy
1580065;1481244796;mircea_popescu;i don't even doubt the label, i just find it amusing.
1580066;1481244855;mircea_popescu;like "fish, delicious and healthy!" label on a caserole in the discount yesterday's icebox.
1580067;1481244862;mircea_popescu;yes, fish in general is delicious and healthy.
1580068;1481244920;pete_dushenski;or sign on car rotting on mechanic's lot : "needs work to get running but a smooth driver!"
1580069;1481244939;phf;look, the margins are thin and the fish gotta go, you buying or what
1580070;1481244950;mircea_popescu;i'm buying, i'm buying.
1580071;1481244959;*;mircea_popescu does exactly this on occasion, feeds cats.
1580072;1481245042;phf;is buenos aires like istanbul, street cat culture?
1580073;1481245084;mircea_popescu;not quite, lots of dogs being tortured on small terraces, apartments, 3sq feet of concrete behind bars (srsly, pair of dogs, COULDNT EVEN STRETCH OUT!).
1580074;1481245092;mircea_popescu;but there's still plenty of cats.
1580075;1481245170;phf;somehow makes total sense from all the other argentina points
1580076;1481245208;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1580077;1481245258;mircea_popescu;and this nation, that to my knowledge has furthest perfected the art of pointlessly but with extreme callous cruelty torturing man's oldest and best friend, nevertheless considers itself full of dog lovers.
1580078;1481245289;mircea_popescu;they actually say this, "i'm a dog lover". then you meet the dog, and the general effect is "i love kids" guy with a fridge full of kid parts.
1580079;1481245511;ben_vulpes;urban dog owners, man.
1580080;1481245517;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1580081;1481245543;mircea_popescu;in other news, i'm enjoying reading this kalzumeus piece on japanese culture. it's like japan consists of the 1950s mob.
1580082;1481245565;ben_vulpes;oh, it's mckenzie's turn huh? how'd he escape the eye of sauron for so long?
1580083;1481245606;mircea_popescu;prolly, his employer skulldruggery.
1580084;1481245787;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580071 << asciilifeform also feeds catz
1580085;1481245787;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 00:55 mircea_popescu does exactly this on occasion, feeds cats.
1580086;1481245815;asciilifeform;the orbiting beasts have doubled and doubled in size...
1580087;1481245839;ben_vulpes;https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12464775
1580088;1481245930;mircea_popescu;wtf is starfighter.
1580089;1481245977;mircea_popescu;" about: THOMAS H. PTACEK hopes, by strict attention to business, combined with moderate charges, to merit a fair share of patronage and support."
1580090;1481245993;ben_vulpes;:D
1580091;1481246017;ben_vulpes;hiring gauntlet as a service
1580092;1481246023;mircea_popescu;!#s tptacek
1580093;1481246024;a111;8 results for "tptacek", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tptacek
1580094;1481246024;trinque;http://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/03/09/announcing-starfighter/
1580095;1481246048;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes oh, like ProctologyU
1580096;1481246062;ben_vulpes;i have no idea
1580097;1481246078;mircea_popescu;o wait, liek minigame except failed ?
1580098;1481246080;mircea_popescu;aww!
1580099;1481246557;mircea_popescu;"One’s actual salary as a salaryman is generally rather low — about $100 per year of age per month, as an engineer in Nagoya (set by a particular monopsonistic engineering employer near Nagoya). In Tokyo, my sense of the market is that, as an intermediate engineer in his early thirties, I’d probably command somewhere between $30k and $60k. (In Silicon Valley, the going rate would be somewhere between $120k and $160k and
1580100;1481246557;mircea_popescu; increasing rapidly.)"
1580101;1481246560;mircea_popescu;ahahaha get the fuck out.
1580102;1481246637;mircea_popescu;this is like saying that your "sense of the market" indicates that as an intermediate starlet in her 30s you'd probably command between 1 and 3 mn pa because hey, that's what bravo/seveteen/cosmo/whatever said christina applegate was making at some point in 2006 when she was 32 and was doing three different things.
1580103;1481246743;mircea_popescu;except she is "intermediate" among the people actually making money ; not among the people aspiring to be used, which is still not the same as making money. you could just as well say tom cook is an intermediate manager (in the sense that bezos is clearly better and whoever they have at microsoft, that indian fellow, clearly worse), so you figure ten years after getting your degree from ohio state business school you'll be pu
1580104;1481246744;mircea_popescu;lling in like 25mn + options.
1580105;1481246768;mircea_popescu;"as an intermediate manager"
1580106;1481246868;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/23F4D70A532D06432B7710D4685138EB5DB19B3AD816EFD65D4E8158E361E79C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1732...0147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.75.157 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.75.157 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (79-98-75-157.sys-data.com. CZ ST)
1580107;1481246869;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AAF7663C0AECC17FC31935B62259B2A1A4700A0EAE5AB14624B296023EEF258C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.103.245.144 (ssh-rsa key from 123.103.245.144 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
1580108;1481247360;mircea_popescu;"When I met her mother for the first time, I brought my resume and tax returns. Her mother was not 100% keen on the match when we started dating, as a combination of “foreigner” and “not gainfully employed” suggested that I was not exactly marriage material, but I eventually won her over."
1580109;1481247363;mircea_popescu;holy shit these people...
1580110;1481247375;mircea_popescu;how does this dude expect to be taken seriously, by anyone, like ever ?
1580111;1481247397;mircea_popescu;i know dogs that are more respectable.
1580112;1481247411;pete_dushenski; not japanese dogs
1580113;1481247422;mircea_popescu;well i don't know any japanese dogs at all.
1580114;1481247442;mircea_popescu;da fuck, empowering old women, wtf is this. whatever happened to bitch, if you talk out of line i'll burn you alive.
1580115;1481247482;mod6;yeah, srsly. "here's my tax returns." wat?!
1580116;1481247510;mircea_popescu;mod6 and these are the dorks who go "oh, midwest, flyover zone". really ? flyover zone for what, your ballsac in a sling ?
1580117;1481247512;pete_dushenski;respect for elders in jp folx is like fried chicken for blacks - goes hand-in-hand
1580118;1481247539;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski respect for the elders is predicated upon the stable basis of them elders having earned enough life experience to know better than getting in my way.
1580119;1481247547;mircea_popescu;this is a young idiot mistake, not an elder mistake.
1580120;1481247667;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: only for values of 'my way' that resolve to mircea_popescu and similar, which'd be rare enough to mostly ignore in jp. or else, sure, in a world where ol' ladies be gettin' torched leftrightandcentre, gramma opens the door for you, not the other way around.
1580121;1481247673;phf;that's what i'm saying though, these are like nifty anthropological studies by very inept anthropologists. you learn more about the author, than...
1580122;1481247705;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski all the warning signs are there. to wit : "(The hypothesis was advanced, more than once, that as a foreigner who routinely travels abroad, speaks Spanish, and has money without any evidence of gainful employment, I was probably a drug dealer. I wish I were joking.)"
1580123;1481247736;mircea_popescu;now, it is true that you don't have to deal drugs to accumulate power ; nor because you accumulated it. but it is supremely unwise to imagine one's not going to crack a few skulls if it comes to it.
1580124;1481247746;mircea_popescu;phf myeah.
1580125;1481247755;pete_dushenski;phf: the authors aren't highly cultured and esteemed envoys from foreign lands, they're just... regular blokes.
1580126;1481247787;mircea_popescu;would you think an elder who ineptly harasses a drug dealer is particularly respectable ?
1580127;1481247826;pete_dushenski;ofc not, so 'drug dealer' is obv a snide remark, not actually positied theory
1580128;1481247840;pete_dushenski;posited*
1580129;1481247852;mircea_popescu;~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
1580130;1481247956;pete_dushenski;apparently the 'big city' of tokyo or wherever isn't part of the jp where triads ARE the law, financiers, drug dealers, etc etc.
1580131;1481248023;phf;pete_dushenski: sure, but my comment stands. when you read travel diaries in general they all have the same format, it's just this particular one reads like "in my country of Kazakhstan we shoot dog, i couldn't find any places to shoot dogs in so called civilized england"
1580132;1481248063;*;mircea_popescu notes for the record that in 1916, man considering the mitzvah of accepting a cunt in his household was given money, and no insignificant portion thereof, by the ever-delighted parents.
1580133;1481248081;mircea_popescu;how the fuck these "men" have managed to turn that into the above quote in one short century is anyone's guess.
1580134;1481248124;pete_dushenski;phf: to be sure
1580135;1481248150;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: this hasn't changed in 100 years, but still depends ~where~ we're discussing.
1580136;1481248158;mircea_popescu;i guess.
1580137;1481248202;pete_dushenski;father-in-laws can be, and in my fortunate experience are, still grateful sobs
1580138;1481248224;pete_dushenski;from whom, yes, honey flows.
1580139;1481248262;mircea_popescu;one time, the dad of this chick (/me is very old school, always insisted in meeting the parents of all molls) asked me if i have serious intentions. so i asked him if she's a virgin.
1580140;1481248335;*;pete_dushenski guesses that quantity of honey depends on the degree of f-i-l's personal means, how many girls he's burdened with, and how much of a stud the s-i-l is.
1580141;1481248389;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: lol. good comeback. and yes, gotta meet parents, ideally even before formal courtship begins or else within first two weeks of commencement.
1580142;1481248405;mircea_popescu;generally after first fuck.
1580143;1481248437;mircea_popescu;here, too, on coupla of occasion took girl over sunday noon that i had met saturday night at bdsm club no less. resulting in some appropriately spooked parents.
1580144;1481248438;pete_dushenski;which should be within first two weeks :p
1580145;1481248517;*;pete_dushenski would very much one day like to see what these bdsm clubs are all about, preferably with mircea_popescu as guide, for he presently has nfi what he's missing out on.
1580146;1481248531;mircea_popescu;nomina nuda, mostly.
1580147;1481248550;mircea_popescu;i thought you lived in something that passes for urban center in the frozen wastes ?
1580148;1481248556;mircea_popescu;i'm sure they must have one.
1580149;1481248657;pete_dushenski;this is where i sheepishly admit that there could be one across the street but that i've not yet encountered anyone who's admitted to knowledge of its whereabouts. though given that 'edmonton ab' showed up on a few of the fetlife meatlist, you sorta have to figure there must be ~something~ of the sort in a town >1mn pop.
1580150;1481248678;mircea_popescu;eh, they probably advertise.
1580151;1481248705;mircea_popescu;!~google edmonton bdsm club
1580152;1481248706;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Edmonton O Society - BDSM Education Society | BDSM Education ...: <http://edmontonosociety.org/>; Meetings | Edmonton O Society - BDSM Education Society: <http://edmontonosociety.org/meetings/>; Edmonton - domination and BDSM services - backpage.com: <http://edmonton.backpage.com/Domination/>
1580153;1481248719;mircea_popescu;there lol. sign up for a meeting, take wifey along.
1580154;1481248745;pete_dushenski;haha there are worse ideas
1580155;1481248756;pete_dushenski;bbiab. to inquire!
1580156;1481248767;mircea_popescu;a munch is generally just dicking around a food court, child safe sort of events.
1580157;1481248780;mircea_popescu;course seems the last for the year was o wait, you have one on 14th.
1580158;1481249488;ben_vulpes;rip john glenn apparently
1580159;1481249569;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AAF7663C0AECC17FC31935B62259B2A1A4700A0EAE5AB14624B296023EEF258C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.103.245.144 (ssh-rsa key from 123.103.245.144 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
1580160;1481249569;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FFE6DAF3C3F67391AD8CBEA1EC2F88C16821237CF7F335B9890B0808F9FFEFBA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.103.245.199 (ssh-rsa key from 123.103.245.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
1580161;1481249593;mircea_popescu;he was really old wasn't he ?
1580162;1481249609;ben_vulpes;ya, rather
1580163;1481249958;mircea_popescu;this tiny may bug like creature is having the time of its life over on the db in jp monitor. i've never seen one so happy.
1580164;1481250650;mircea_popescu;i don't get this fizzbuzz thing. someone explain it to me ? for i from 1 to 100 do if i is divisible by 3 j+="Fizz" ; if i is divisible by 5 j+="Buzz" if j is null j = i print j.
1580165;1481250686;mircea_popescu;am i nuts or something ? wtf "I think Fizz-Buzz is "hard" for some programmers because (#1) it doesn't fit into any of the patterns that were given to them in school assignments, and (#2) it isn't possible to directly and simply represent the necessary tests, without duplication, in just about any commonly-used modern programming language." (as per http://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest )
1580166;1481250743;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580107 << ahahahahahahahahaha http://123.103.245.144/index.html 'Quanta Megarac' '(C) COPYRIGHT American Megatrends Inc. 2008-2009'
1580167;1481250743;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 01:27 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AAF7663C0AECC17FC31935B62259B2A1A4700A0EAE5AB14624B296023EEF258C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.103.245.144 (ssh-rsa key from 123.103.245.144 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
1580168;1481250754;asciilifeform;remote admin for some godforsaken serv mobo
1580169;1481250769;mircea_popescu;still on seven years later...
1580170;1481250830;asciilifeform;you can trivially enumerate users ('admin', for instance, confirms to exist...)
1580171;1481250844;asciilifeform;nfi what else, there is probably a vendor backdoor, i cannot be arsed
1580172;1481250855;asciilifeform;(stoooodent project!11111)
1580173;1481250861;mircea_popescu;evidently.
1580174;1481250879;asciilifeform;this is one of those fabled ipmi cards mircea_popescu spoke of in earlier thread.
1580175;1481250896;mircea_popescu;one of these is going to turn out to be whatever supersecret bullshit someone put online because idiots and everyone's going to lose their shit.
1580176;1481250897;asciilifeform;apparently whitelabeled by number of folx, incl. dell
1580177;1481251011;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580164 << it was a pons asinorum, a 'write hello world' exam to weed out applicants who 1) cannot program to save their life 2) memorized 'hello world' to fool examinators
1580178;1481251011;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 02:30 mircea_popescu: i don't get this fizzbuzz thing. someone explain it to me ? for i from 1 to 100 do if i is divisible by 3 j+="Fizz" ; if i is divisible by 5 j+="Buzz" if j is null j = i print j.
1580179;1481251033;mircea_popescu;but what i specifically take issue with is the claim that "There is no clear way in any languages". what the heck ?
1580180;1481251037;asciilifeform;believe or not, (1) is pestilentially common in usa, and has been for decade+, and (2) is also met with regularly
1580181;1481251057;*;asciilifeform goes and unwinds mega-log
1580182;1481251104;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform should probably poop more often
1580183;1481251110;asciilifeform;lel
1580184;1481251120;asciilifeform;'captain's log'
1580185;1481251138;ben_vulpes;did everything come out all right?
1580186;1481251143;mircea_popescu;lmao
1580187;1481251234;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580131 << 'where, sir, i SHOULD PUT THIS!!???' (tm) (r)
1580188;1481251234;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 01:47 phf: pete_dushenski: sure, but my comment stands. when you read travel diaries in general they all have the same format, it's just this particular one reads like "in my country of Kazakhstan we shoot dog, i couldn't find any places to shoot dogs in so called civilized england"
1580189;1481251343;mircea_popescu;holy shit! the page itself claims there is a simple structure... BUt ONLY FOR LISP
1580190;1481251363;mircea_popescu;fucking bullshit, "use separate variable, test the number test variable if empty" can be written in fucking bash.
1580191;1481251371;mircea_popescu;what is with these obnoxious prigs already.
1580192;1481251429;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580145 << mircea_popescu showed one during c3. picture a ~packed~ lift, with alcohol served
1580193;1481251429;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 01:55 pete_dushenski would very much one day like to see what these bdsm clubs are all about, preferably with mircea_popescu as guide, for he presently has nfi what he's missing out on.
1580194;1481251446;mircea_popescu;not even that far off.
1580195;1481251476;asciilifeform;~same dress level, ~same folx standing in corners, etc
1580196;1481251507;mircea_popescu;there was some nudity wasn't there ?
1580197;1481251514;asciilifeform;i saw an arse cheek iirc
1580198;1481251520;asciilifeform;singular.
1580199;1481251568;mircea_popescu;buttlift.
1580200;1481251811;asciilifeform;re 'buzz' test, see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569804
1580201;1481251811;a111;Logged on 2016-11-18 16:58 asciilifeform: (at a recent hellhole where asciilifeform worked, they marched in folx with perfect marks, many magister degrees in 'sciences', etc., who COULD NOT PROGRAM)
1580202;1481251852;mircea_popescu;i don't even see how the fuck this is programming.
1580203;1481251859;mircea_popescu;srsly now. can they stock their pantry, these people ?
1580204;1481251882;asciilifeform;what pantry, 'talk into clownface for food pellet'
1580205;1481251923;asciilifeform;it's a helloworld, a litmus to see whether esteemed mr. orc has even heard of the notion of programming a computer
1580206;1481251963;asciilifeform;last time asciilifeform went around to look for work, saw an astonishing variety of olympiad puzzles
1580207;1481251985;asciilifeform;'here's 20 pgs of c, find 3 exploitable bugs'
1580208;1481251999;mircea_popescu;should have given you emacs macros instead :D
1580209;1481252006;asciilifeform;'here's a pg of obdjump -D .., say what is the routine'
1580210;1481252008;asciilifeform;etc
1580211;1481252038;asciilifeform;some outfits had 'olympiad' so gnarly that it was given 'takehome'
1580212;1481252072;asciilifeform;nothing prizeworthy, because wtf, think someone wants to sit and make up real prize problem.. but it wasn't all low-effort crapola either.
1580213;1481252136;asciilifeform;there was even one 'tbtf' corp where they wheeled in a pc-cum-tv thing and ida...
1580214;1481252223;mircea_popescu;o.O
1580215;1481252240;asciilifeform;olympiads are a desperation measure, when i sat on other end of the table i resorted to them also
1580216;1481252258;asciilifeform;degrees -- worthless; people pretending to know what computer is but came straight from donkey - ubiquitous
1580217;1481252456;ben_vulpes;us degrees are worse than worthless, they're an actual burden. holders generally have such an inflated opinion of themselves and blown up cashflow needs due to student loans they're nigh unemployable.
1580218;1481252503;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: ~old~ (relatively) degrees -- still worth ~something, occasionally
1580219;1481252527;mircea_popescu;no ben_vulpes has it ; degrees are anti-signal.
1580220;1481252535;ben_vulpes;and the old folks who bear them, occasionally as well.
1580221;1481252536;mircea_popescu;very inflexible curs with outsized "needs".
1580222;1481252575;ben_vulpes;the lifetime of coddling doesn't make managing them any easier either.
1580223;1481252601;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i think you are describing 'old folx', not necessarily diplomaed
1580224;1481252648;mircea_popescu;old folks as in bio age i usually have an easy enough time with ; young folks who aspire to be employed however are aged beyond their age, like touched by the fucking vorlons.
1580225;1481252667;mircea_popescu;i actually told a 29 yo "i know a guy who's 92 and a lot more flexible than you".
1580226;1481252676;mircea_popescu;which incidentally was true at the time.
1580227;1481252707;asciilifeform;does army service count as 'employ' for the purpose of mircea_popescu's disdainful eye ?
1580228;1481252722;mircea_popescu;well no, i've never had the pleasure of hiring for the army.
1580229;1481252771;asciilifeform;sketch plox the inflexible 29yo
1580230;1481252777;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform (i suspect we may be talking at cross purposes)
1580231;1481252783;asciilifeform;hm possibly
1580232;1481252800;mircea_popescu;ah. the inflexible 29 yo had this very obnoxious penchant for trying to restate any problem in specific terms as per his textbook.
1580233;1481252812;asciilifeform;aaaah THEM!!
1580234;1481252815;mircea_popescu;needless to say this produced "correct" responses through the insufferable avenue of missing out on the problem.
1580235;1481252845;mircea_popescu;this is about as useful as an "expert system".
1580236;1481252901;asciilifeform;if not mega-seekrit, what sort of worker was he pretending to be..?
1580237;1481252906;mircea_popescu;the 92 yo i had in mind specifically was http://trilema.com/2010/la-munca-cu-negrii/#selection-37.0-37.88
1580238;1481252955;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform systems engineer
1580239;1481252998;asciilifeform;it always boggled my imagination, how these folx pick a thing to 'be'
1580240;1481253021;asciilifeform;why not go across the street and pretend to be some other thing. why came to our door.
1580241;1481253051;mircea_popescu;from what i heard from all other shops, they do. it's like asking why has superluminous tachyon decided to bless your apparatus.
1580242;1481253059;asciilifeform;the unspoken but correct answer is 'if i go and pretend to be a real liberal-profession, lawyer, airline pilot, i will go to jail'
1580243;1481253061;mircea_popescu;hey - other ones blessed mrs jones' urethra etc
1580244;1481253681;*;mircea_popescu waves at lobbes 
1580245;1481254714;mircea_popescu;"For example, when I first came to Japan, I had no computer. I also had no money, because the plane ticket and setting up my household ate all of my savings. In America, this isn’t a barrier to getting a computer, because Dell will do a quick FICO score on you and then happily extend you $2,000 of trade credit."
1580246;1481254722;mircea_popescu;for the love of all that's holy. who does this ? WHO ?
1580247;1481254799;asciilifeform;https://web.archive.org/web/20140302045958/http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2012/04/20/math-why-there-is-disagreement-on-cantors-diagonal-argument << strictly for pro entomologists. cantorist crackpot! and here i thought that the last one died in '99 or so, usenetron in hand...
1580248;1481254816;asciilifeform;think, ~disagreement~ !111
1580249;1481254834;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: who does what
1580250;1481254853;asciilifeform;move with 0 money and 0 prospects, living by wits ? i thought mircea_popescu was proponent of this for young folx
1580251;1481254866;mircea_popescu;the approximate equivalent of "umm... hi fortified city, here is my siege. i... uhhh... i ate all the horses on the way over. and burned the trebuchets. surrender now ?"
1580252;1481254890;asciilifeform;hey maybe they watched mircea_popescu take city with bare teeth and want also.
1580253;1481254907;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was living under the impression that i am reading the faits d'armes of adule male. for some reason.
1580254;1481254959;*;asciilifeform goes back and actually reads subj
1580255;1481254971;mircea_popescu;wtf is this "disagreement" holy hell.
1580256;1481256171;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/23F4D70A532D06432B7710D4685138EB5DB19B3AD816EFD65D4E8158E361E79C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1548...9783 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.75.157 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.75.157 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (79-98-75-157.sys-data.com. CZ ST)
1580257;1481256502;ben_vulpes;!~later tell Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/ << 404s
1580258;1481256502;jhvh1;ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
1580259;1481257238;ben_vulpes;403 i mean
1580260;1481284873;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579712 << there is yet no futures market principally because agreement among the major players keeps the prices stable. the reasonings through which that agreement is distilled however are getting ever more complex ; this yet holds because everyone involved has a brain the size of staten island and can mostly follow the intricacies + a patience the size of a larger planet's ice caps, so they
1580261;1481284873;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 13:02 Framedragger: diana_coman: ah, good idea, thanks :)
1580262;1481284873;mircea_popescu; do follow. neither of these are likely to hold long term and moreover complexity ever increases, so i expect they'll emerge next year or so.
1580263;1481285146;mircea_popescu;see http://trilema.com/2016/memoranda-and-shit-like-1800s-high-diplomacy/ re the first point, but yes plenty other examples scattered in the logs ; see http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-11-29.log.html#t13:20:08 re the later - the reason the contract is not lucrative is because cft is expected to  cost 180% in the future because "consensus"-ed. though in fairness the supplies are ever dubious in practice etc - but there's system st
1580264;1481285146;mircea_popescu;ickiness in economics not just price stickiness, and esp in chaotic situations it's actually a stronger effect.
1580265;1481285453;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579813 << on meditation, this is not at all the case. the boyar was blamed in 1700 for the exact reason the jew was blamed in 1900 : the perception of "optionality" in the sense of http://trilema.com/2013/the-dead-jew-and-the-raped-girl/ ; strictly drawn along the lines of "the emperor is ; the gold is ; the grain is and the famine is ; disease and war and grass and cunt and penis all are -
1580266;1481285453;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 16:59 asciilifeform: well yes, you blame the d00d who actually worked you to the bone
1580267;1481285453;mircea_popescu;but the $enemy DOES!"
1580268;1481285474;mircea_popescu;this inadherence to modernism is why russia was modernised via socialism/soviets, not via capitalism/industrialism.
1580269;1481285534;mircea_popescu;so no, the peasant didn't blame the boyar because the boyar did something. the peasant doesn't care about that (nor was the doing actually verifiable as such, nor did it likely happen rather than the opposite). the peasant blame the boyar because the boyar was the wrong thing, a do-er rather than an is-er.
1580270;1481285566;mircea_popescu;and which is why the "golden toilet" device is so important in trying to sell modernism to traditionalist societies - the point is to show optionality in the desired public enemy.
1580271;1481285655;mircea_popescu;it directly mirrors the biblical understanding (god was ; and lucifer did) and very much explains why "patriotic war" and "peace keeping" and "Defending" and etcetera. the narrative always is "we - were ; enemy - did ; we - shall be again".
1580272;1481285682;mircea_popescu;this very much because contrary to pretense commonly shared and widely held, modernism was never more than a superficial paint coat over things.
1580273;1481285695;mircea_popescu;there's no practical way in which anything can reduce to "doing". even in software.
1580274;1481285733;mircea_popescu;(also why so many of the moribund modernist world take refuge in "coding" as they understand it rather than much more obviously productive, satisfiying and accessible venues)
1580275;1481286483;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579752 << seeing as nobody was doing that, here's the result of basically that: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored-ssh-boxes/ - i may or may not do the other things (banners for http/ssh/telnet/ftp/etc), everyone feel free to do the latter, you can
1580276;1481286483;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 15:19 mircea_popescu: cat iplist.txt | while read ip; do curl -A "blabla" "http://$ip/" > results.txt; done
1580277;1481286486;Framedragger;integrate data from http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/
1580278;1481286591;Framedragger;(~545 boxes out of 1319 phuctored respond to http - only the ones that do are in there.)
1580279;1481286642;mircea_popescu;nice!
1580280;1481287350;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580257 << ty, fixed (also reported by punkman, but i was afk at that point)
1580281;1481287350;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 04:08 ben_vulpes: !~later tell Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/ << 404s
1580282;1481287387;*;Framedragger will try to find time to tie up some loose ends (log, ssh banners in nice format, etc)
1580283;1481287535;mircea_popescu;!!up goldfinger
1580284;1481287536;deedbot;goldfinger voiced for 30 minutes.
1580285;1481287550;mircea_popescu;how's england Framedragger ?
1580286;1481287561;Framedragger;bland and bland.
1580287;1481287576;mircea_popescu;you know you're no longer legally allowed to use pgp in that jurisdiction yea ?
1580288;1481287594;shinohai;wut
1580289;1481287636;Framedragger;+/- that, plus hacking into shit will become commonplace police practice (eh who am i kidding and being naive about, they're simply 'streamlining' all that in the judicial sense..)
1580290;1481287644;Framedragger;i'm out ~june-july :)
1580291;1481287647;goldfinger;Hello
1580292;1481287653;mircea_popescu;ello
1580293;1481287655;goldfinger;How come I am voiced for only 30 minutes?
1580294;1481287658;shinohai;hola
1580295;1481287671;mircea_popescu;shinohai something something police powers something something we think we exist something something
1580296;1481287690;goldfinger;Really, PGP is illegal in england?
1580297;1481287701;mircea_popescu;goldfinger the better question is why should you be voiced at all. who're you ?
1580298;1481287701;shinohai;"But officer, I use `GPG` and pgp!"
1580299;1481287706;Framedragger;shinohai: investigatory powers act if you want keywords
1580300;1481287708;shinohai;*and not
1580301;1481287712;goldfinger;Well, I was making a bitcoin client
1580302;1481287721;Framedragger;goldfinger: constraints stimulate creativity, it's like haiku
1580303;1481287738;goldfinger;and i noticed i connected with some nodes that reported (protocol)verison 99999
1580304;1481287741;goldfinger;version*
1580305;1481287746;mircea_popescu;oh THAT's why they prefer tight pussy!
1580306;1481287748;shinohai;Yup that's us
1580307;1481287763;mircea_popescu;goldfinger your documentation point for that would be
1580308;1481287765;goldfinger;yeah, so i thought, who the hell are these people that start counting their version number downwards
1580309;1481287767;mircea_popescu;!#s trb
1580310;1481287767;a111;1093 results for "trb", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=trb
1580311;1481287787;Framedragger;version followed donald knuth tradition iirc?
1580312;1481287804;shinohai;Mine actually is set to v99995
1580313;1481287804;mircea_popescu;yeah pretty sure that's how that came to be, someone mentioned knuth's freezing and it flew.
1580314;1481287812;goldfinger;allright
1580315;1481287816;goldfinger;so what is this party about
1580316;1481287831;goldfinger;a rewrite of bitcoin core?
1580317;1481287837;Framedragger;it's a small terrorist republic, but i'll leave it to mr. MP
1580318;1481287838;mircea_popescu;the most serene republic is a terrorist organisation dedicated to the violent destruction of all fiat constructions, from states on.
1580319;1481287846;goldfinger;cool
1580320;1481287856;goldfinger;V for vendetta
1580321;1481287873;mircea_popescu;also the enslavement of the general population, murder, rape, arson and jaywalking.
1580322;1481287903;goldfinger;i started writing a bitcoin client in C#
1580323;1481287910;shinohai;I am the most preeminent jaywalker in the Republic
1580324;1481287927;goldfinger;Btw, PGP is really illegal in england?
1580325;1481287929;goldfinger;that sounds terrible
1580326;1481287939;mircea_popescu;it is pretty terrible yeah. "end to end encryption"
1580327;1481287949;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/fuckgoats-first-batch-assembles-successfully/ << Trilema - FUCKGOATS first batch assembles successfully
1580328;1481287950;mircea_popescu;so not just pgp, bitcoin too, and everything else.
1580329;1481287951;goldfinger;they banned all end to end encryption?
1580330;1481287953;goldfinger;wow
1580331;1481287969;mircea_popescu;ironically, this shows pki for instance ISNT encryption. but we digress.
1580332;1481287971;Framedragger;well, its status is prolly still unclear. but basically current govt doesn't really take to end to end encryption, in a more serious manner than previous govts; or at least this one managed to push things forward a bit
1580333;1481287992;goldfinger;pki?
1580334;1481288002;Framedragger;public key insanity
1580335;1481288018;goldfinger;im scared
1580336;1481288023;mircea_popescu;you know, what the ssh supposedly implements.
1580337;1481288023;goldfinger;what should we do
1580338;1481288047;mircea_popescu;we should get our key registered with the deedbot and read up the topic / do something useful with ourselves.
1580339;1481288074;goldfinger;where can i read up the topic
1580340;1481288092;mircea_popescu;if you don't have a topic window up top, try /topic
1580341;1481288107;goldfinger;tht doesn't do much, im using kiwiirc
1580342;1481288130;mircea_popescu;"You have reached The Most Serene Republic, the world's only sovereign. See http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ "
1580343;1481288139;goldfinger;ah there, okay thanks
1580344;1481288204;Framedragger;also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536198
1580345;1481288204;a111;Logged on 2016-09-07 16:00 Framedragger: IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE BUILDING A REPUBLIC
1580346;1481288204;goldfinger;maybe we can use steganograpgy
1580347;1481288267;shinohai;That was my favorite Framedragger bashism of all time.
1580348;1481289771;danielpbarron;!~bible isaiah 45:7
1580349;1481289772;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 45:7 :: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
1580350;1481289813;danielpbarron;^ re: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580271
1580351;1481289813;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 12:14 mircea_popescu: it directly mirrors the biblical understanding (god was ; and lucifer did) and very much explains why "patriotic war" and "peace keeping" and "Defending" and etcetera. the narrative always is "we - were ; enemy - did ; we - shall be again".
1580352;1481289849;mircea_popescu;yes well, the understanding of the bible and the text of the bible are separable concerns.
1580353;1481289854;mircea_popescu;as you might be aware.
1580354;1481289994;danielpbarron;!~bible proverbs 3:5
1580355;1481289995;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 3:5 :: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
1580356;1481290290;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E906CCADD206429754D318A2DBF2150F1DB8E4A961C2EB92E0DA3910933A9A60 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2374...4793 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.127.145.2 (ssh-rsa key from 200.127.145.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (200-127-145-2.net.prima.net.ar. AR C)
1580357;1481290290;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CD0282DAF4E4DCBBD882ABDA02B7E10BED966232497B8AC33AE137C2C5044AC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1424...7343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.18.89.36 (ssh-rsa key from 67.18.89.36 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (li26-36.members.linode.com. US TX)
1580358;1481290290;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7F8C36D00B3BF478CA98E5D6F8BD35B8E2FCE92DF34EDC659B471C1B811E0C4D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2377...6941 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.138.127.137 (ssh-rsa key from 79.138.127.137 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vmserv2.appgate.com. SE N)
1580359;1481290290;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C9634D23F9FF2371D3E5E8DF1D57CB1FB9CD74DAC36DF7307D931F5599CCED4D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2587...5253 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.70.4.181 (ssh-rsa key from 109.70.4.181 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (109-70-4-181.fxw.nl. NL)
1580360;1481290290;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5EF74EEEC6ED0110C9B092376512DA53482E15379187469FB720FD76E9D20D3D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2357...4663 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.38.17 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.38.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1580361;1481290290;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/32652A860DF501D08376A8FF97AF452915B8916DD7D6F5F97D33250D3E7F72F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.223 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.223 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1580362;1481290291;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9A34020BD86CCFD722610615BCEA3BC872B7161FCFEB84222CAAD4208C7869B5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.14.77 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.14.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1580363;1481290291;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/89B9986669FC0DDDC234C7D8D296527FC8336AD24BDCEABF0945DCA3E0F4425F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.129 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1580364;1481290567;mircea_popescu;heh
1580365;1481290745;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580321 <<< wait, wasn't jaywalking declared unrepublican? or did i miss something
1580366;1481290745;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 12:51 mircea_popescu: also the enslavement of the general population, murder, rape, arson and jaywalking.
1580367;1481290796;mircea_popescu;davout oh was it ?
1580368;1481290809;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry - i must've meant also the enslavement of the general population, murder, rape, arson and misrepresentation.
1580369;1481294356;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580275 << Framedragger this would be considerably neater if it were possible to read it without 500+ click/back/click/back...
1580370;1481294356;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 12:28 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579752 << seeing as nobody was doing that, here's the result of basically that: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored-ssh-boxes/ - i may or may not do the other things (banners for http/ssh/telnet/ftp/etc), everyone feel free to do the latter, you can
1580371;1481294944;Framedragger;asciilifeform: like, everything on a single page (or some iframe or js thing)?
1580372;1481294968;asciilifeform;Framedragger: something like that
1580373;1481294984;asciilifeform;even to dump the raw txt (right column) on one page, separated by hlines, would be useful
1580374;1481295077;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580127 << thinking about it you're entirely right, what's said there isn't "you are a drug dealer" but specifically "you aren't a drug dealer" in the sense of "i don't think you're that cool so nyah!"
1580375;1481295077;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 01:43 pete_dushenski: ofc not, so 'drug dealer' is obv a snide remark, not actually positied theory
1580376;1481295144;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNWvdtt5sxs << oblig
1580377;1481295319;Framedragger;asciilifeform: short-term remedy until more civilised means is concocted: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored-ssh-boxes/all.txt
1580378;1481295321;mircea_popescu;aaha
1580379;1481295339;asciilifeform;Framedragger: this is useful. ty.
1580380;1481295390;mircea_popescu;i see the yankovich tradition is well and good.
1580381;1481295401;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lehrer. ancient.
1580382;1481295405;asciilifeform;('50s iirc)
1580383;1481295419;asciilifeform;the ex-maths d00d.
1580384;1481295431;mircea_popescu;o,rly ?
1580385;1481295435;asciilifeform;aha.
1580386;1481295439;mircea_popescu;te amo' ahahaha.
1580387;1481295446;mircea_popescu;it's te amo ! ffs.
1580388;1481295459;asciilifeform;!#s lehrer
1580389;1481295459;a111;7 results for "lehrer", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=lehrer
1580390;1481295467;asciilifeform;e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537360
1580391;1481295467;a111;Logged on 2016-09-08 17:06 asciilifeform: 'Plagiarize !! Let no one else's work evade your eyes ! Remember why the good Lord made your eyes ! So don't shade your eyes !' (tm) (r) (tom lehrer)
1580392;1481295483;mircea_popescu;i somehow never listened to these.
1580393;1481295508;asciilifeform;'banned by bbc' !1111
1580394;1481295514;mircea_popescu;must be.
1580395;1481295545;asciilifeform;had parody of 'boyscout' song, with fucking; and other lulz
1580396;1481295593;asciilifeform;the interesting bit is that lehrer decided that he did not want to be known for singing, and went back to mathematical obscurity willfully.
1580397;1481295596;asciilifeform;long, long ago.
1580398;1481295605;mircea_popescu;reviewing yest log for articlization i realise we'll probably not see pete_dushenski anymore ; he may or may not return in two week's time as a dessicated airfoil to say his goodbyes to his former club, pre burial in an cremation urn.
1580399;1481295887;BingoBoingo;lol
1580400;1481295891;mod6;mornin'
1580401;1481295903;mircea_popescu;hola mod6
1580402;1481296054;mod6;<+goldfinger> and i noticed i connected with some nodes that reported (protocol)verison 99999 << someone saw us on the tubes.  hai!
1580403;1481296158;shinohai;In his C# buttclient
1580404;1481296364;mircea_popescu;argument could probably be leveled C# more respectable than C++
1580405;1481296501;asciilifeform;lol the microshit abortion
1580406;1481296992;mircea_popescu;!$archivestats
1580407;1481296993;scriba;Number of URLs seen since bot startup: 350; number of URLs newly archived: 342.
1580408;1481297685;Framedragger;!$ hello
1580409;1481297686;scriba;Hello, world! My uptime is 2 days, 19:01:39.
1580410;1481297706;Framedragger;^ when it reconnects, the counters start from 0 again
1580411;1481298068;asciilifeform;'We believe in order to create a more sustainable society we need to go from the consumer society to a society formed around "do it yourself" (DIY) and "do it together" (DIT) mentality. Therefor we plan to make living communities which are self sustainable with energy, water and food, but also are in connection with the communities create maker spaces and tool libraries, such that people in the surrounding society have access to the
1580412;1481298069;asciilifeform;tools needed to develop there skills and talents in DIY and DIT....' -- 208.75.183.230:80
1580413;1481298098;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ahaha. they.will.... never yield!!1
1580414;1481298113;mircea_popescu;Framedragger i guess that;s unavoidalbe huh.
1580415;1481298233;Framedragger;well it _could_ have permanent storage, *in principle*.. and one could even reconstruct the past counters from logs which are saved
1580416;1481298245;Framedragger;probably not terribly important for now tho.
1580417;1481298386;asciilifeform;http://210.64.28.150 << webcam
1580418;1481298417;asciilifeform;http://210.66.40.42 << same type
1580419;1481298422;asciilifeform;(probably >2 of these)
1580420;1481298446;trinque;who are these people who *want* to be warehoused in plastic bins packed like a damned beehive
1580421;1481298459;BingoBoingo;Wait, They don't DIY own building?!
1580422;1481298565;trinque;please, I cannot feel at home unless I hear other losers fuck / take a shit / etc
1580423;1481298568;trinque;such community
1580424;1481298811;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1580425;1481298813;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 442673 | Current Difficulty: 2.867657668205504E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 443519 | Next Difficulty In: 846 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1580426;1481298878;asciilifeform;trinque: i suspect that subj discusses a work of imagination, not of reality
1580427;1481298930;trinque;these "intentional community" things exist though
1580428;1481299011;asciilifeform;'SelecSource is the most experienced staffing partner in Atlanta, specializing in skilled trades, industrial and clerical talent. Simply put, we know where to find most qualified and reliable people in the Southeast.' -- 216.5.27.248:80
1580429;1481299045;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-25#1558981 << s/colombia/oregon/
1580430;1481299045;a111;Logged on 2016-10-25 21:55 mircea_popescu: she's a poor chick in colombia, what do you want her to think ?
1580431;1481299075;mircea_popescu;trinque at least if they did it publicly, you know, "this is the kitchen, the women and girly men cook here ; and this is the fuck room, where we make the children".
1580432;1481299101;mircea_popescu;perhaps something like http://trilema.com/2011/in-sprijinul-eugeniei/
1580433;1481299240;asciilifeform;http://23.92.20.117 << 'watch city cigar co.'
1580434;1481299272;trinque;a world with different places, how alien
1580435;1481299288;*;trinque also wonders what she was listening to
1580436;1481299288;asciilifeform;http://35.8.60.151 << 'The OpenREP Project (OpenREP) provides information on dioxins and dioxin-like chemicals to the public. This is the only comprehensive source of scientific data on exposure risks due to dioxins and dioxin-like chemicals. Our team of curators.....'
1580437;1481299402;trinque;speaking of speaking only mudlang (and a small amount of spanishmudlang), if anyone else is slogging through latin, the app memrise has decent flash cards under the "GCSE" set
1580438;1481299524;asciilifeform;speaking of orcs, http://79.174.65.78 >> 'В разделе "Долгосрочный прогноз" размещены прогностические карты аномалий температуры воздуха и осадков на станциях Дальнего Востока России и Восточной Сибири на декабрь 2016 г. и январь-апрель 2017 г.'
1580439;1481299542;asciilifeform;http://en.ferhri.org << engl ver.
1580440;1481299603;mircea_popescu;trinque wut ?!
1580441;1481299661;asciilifeform;http://80.1.67.37/login.aspx << i've never heard of a 'briportal' or 'britannic technologies ltd' but apparently they're based on diddled-debian...
1580442;1481299673;trinque;mircea_popescu: eh?
1580443;1481299683;mircea_popescu;i have no idea what you just said!
1580444;1481299758;asciilifeform;http://82.146.56.134 << ru spam-perfume
1580445;1481299805;trinque;mircea_popescu: was insulting english and saying there's an appthing to walk around with practicing latin, with which I'm starting before taking on any other romance lang
1580446;1481299806;asciilifeform;http://83.170.113.55 >> 'PLEASE NOTE - Cleverbot learns from people - things it says may seem inappropriate - use with discretion and at YOUR OWN RISK'
1580447;1481299832;Framedragger;http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored-ssh-boxes/130.56.60.63-80.txt << oh, this belongs to consc.net, run by one david chalmers, dude whose papers i've actually read. lulzy
1580448;1481299832;mircea_popescu;oh oh
1580449;1481299844;mircea_popescu;for some reason mud- welded in my head to conlangs/muds and wouldn't let go.
1580450;1481299851;asciilifeform;Framedragger: lol, ~that~ chalmers
1580451;1481299853;asciilifeform;write to him?
1580452;1481299856;mircea_popescu;^
1580453;1481299861;Framedragger;i suppose i will!
1580454;1481299929;Framedragger;"hey dude, nice work on semantics, btw your box is fucked"
1580455;1481299931;mircea_popescu;trinque the method i recommend, if you care, is to work selections of classical texts with the dictionary ; then proceed to answer any systematic questions you have when you're sick of the slog.
1580456;1481299943;asciilifeform;^
1580457;1481299956;mircea_popescu;there were some decent programs catering to this approach at us unis too, perseus at tufts for eg.
1580458;1481299976;trinque;ty
1580459;1481299986;asciilifeform;http://85.15.210.7 << very very meta. latvian vendor of routers, almost certainly all similarly phuctorable
1580460;1481299994;mircea_popescu;hahahaa
1580461;1481300036;Framedragger;!$ archivestats
1580462;1481300036;scriba;Number of URLs seen since bot startup: 363; number of URLs newly archived: 355.
1580463;1481300048;trinque;Framedragger: is there a list somewhere ?
1580464;1481300053;trinque;and very neat, btw
1580465;1481300064;Framedragger;trinque: of archived urls, you mean? hm no
1580466;1481300145;asciilifeform;http://91.82.84.113 >> mircea_popescu knows hungarian ??
1580467;1481300157;mircea_popescu;trinque http://trilema.com/2013/life-in-the-time-of-empire/ << martial is a good starting point, his english is very good but very plain ; there's a celebrated collection of medieval poems (carmina burana) which works well because very close to modern conventions.
1580468;1481300204;trinque;ah thanks very much; I'll use that to practice
1580469;1481300208;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm from cluj, it's spoken. why ?
1580470;1481300223;asciilifeform;linked
1580471;1481300232;mircea_popescu;where the fuck ?!
1580472;1481300234;asciilifeform;'Qu'on l'appelle Tipi ou Tepee ou Tee-pee il est l'habitat nomade parfait.' >> http://92.243.8.194
1580473;1481300242;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no, just generic hungarian spamola, earlier.
1580474;1481300263;mircea_popescu;ah.
1580475;1481300264;asciilifeform;i know 0 hu, but it looked like an old car lot.
1580476;1481300277;mircea_popescu;hungarian is a language best not learned.
1580477;1481300283;asciilifeform;why's that
1580478;1481300290;asciilifeform;just takes up space ?
1580479;1481300292;asciilifeform;like finnish ?
1580480;1481300301;mircea_popescu;it's like the perl ofall languages, actively breaks the head. EVERYTHING they do is wrong.
1580481;1481300307;*;asciilifeform can picture this.
1580482;1481300314;mircea_popescu;solve the wrong problems by vocabulary, you name it they got it.
1580483;1481300323;mircea_popescu;it's of strict entomological interest, a la malbolge.
1580484;1481300327;asciilifeform;chukchas do this.
1580485;1481300358;asciilifeform;and when asciilifeform did several years of linguistics at uni, this is the kind of language that was assigned.
1580486;1481300377;mircea_popescu;related, http://trilema.com/2013/the-linguistic-mark-of-cultural-failure/
1580487;1481300381;asciilifeform;(working on 'human' ones that somebody might actually know, or related to, is not proper exercise)
1580488;1481300416;Framedragger;trinque: http://log.mkj.lt/URLs_archived_till_2016-12-09_1615UTC.txt (1910 so far)
1580489;1481300438;asciilifeform;aaaah this is just too great to pass up :
1580490;1481300439;asciilifeform;<div id="debug"><p>mysql://webretail2:joon0Ohn@unix(/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock)/webretail2</p>
1580491;1481300441;Framedragger;no datestamp sorry
1580492;1481300446;Framedragger;omg
1580493;1481300453;mircea_popescu;lolwyt
1580494;1481300457;asciilifeform;(  92.62.138.64:80 )
1580495;1481300457;Framedragger;joon0Ohn
1580496;1481300472;trinque;todd really is the worst name, isn't it
1580497;1481300472;Framedragger;oh, .lt lol
1580498;1481300487;mircea_popescu;yes. todd gack.
1580499;1481300494;asciilifeform;trinque: 'that man is dead. the name's todd now! sweeny todd!' (tm) (r)
1580500;1481300498;Framedragger;(mikrovisata, i know that company heh. funny)
1580501;1481300514;mircea_popescu;Framedragger go by their office for a b2b proposal, show them chatlog ?
1580502;1481300538;trinque;asciilifeform: I guess that was a cooler todd
1580503;1481300552;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E906CCADD206429754D318A2DBF2150F1DB8E4A961C2EB92E0DA3910933A9A60 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1354...4559 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.127.145.2 (ssh-rsa key from 200.127.145.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (200-127-145-2.net.prima.net.ar. AR C)
1580504;1481300552;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CD0282DAF4E4DCBBD882ABDA02B7E10BED966232497B8AC33AE137C2C5044AC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1377...2599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.18.89.36 (ssh-rsa key from 67.18.89.36 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (li26-36.members.linode.com. US TX)
1580505;1481300553;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7F8C36D00B3BF478CA98E5D6F8BD35B8E2FCE92DF34EDC659B471C1B811E0C4D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1520...0763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.138.127.137 (ssh-rsa key from 79.138.127.137 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vmserv2.appgate.com. SE N)
1580506;1481300553;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C9634D23F9FF2371D3E5E8DF1D57CB1FB9CD74DAC36DF7307D931F5599CCED4D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1557...1697 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.70.4.181 (ssh-rsa key from 109.70.4.181 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (109-70-4-181.fxw.nl. NL)
1580507;1481300553;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5EF74EEEC6ED0110C9B092376512DA53482E15379187469FB720FD76E9D20D3D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1501...0447 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.38.17 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.38.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1580508;1481300570;asciilifeform;94.107.193.60:80 >> 'For a Refendum in Belgium' . 'A democratie is based on the voice of the people.  Only the Refendum can grant this respect'
1580509;1481300588;asciilifeform;' Votez pour que nos politiciens modifient notre Constitution et que le Referendum soit enfin reconnu comme "voix du Peuple". '
1580510;1481300604;asciilifeform;and holy fuck these are gonna pop faster than they can be eaten won't they.
1580511;1481300612;asciilifeform;and also lol, argentina again
1580512;1481300654;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha. why i didn't say anything re your curl earlier. will have to be run periodically lol
1580513;1481300687;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: huh not the worst idea! i'll see if i can arrange when i'm back for christmas week after next :P
1580514;1481300689;asciilifeform;'More than 35 years since its foundation, Safetykleen remains the UK’s market leading parts-washing company.' << 94.185.212.244:80
1580515;1481300702;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: noshit
1580516;1481300731;mircea_popescu;lmao i just noticed i said "martial is a good starting point, his english is".
1580517;1481300736;Framedragger;prolly need to build a pipeline for postprocessing all phuctor finds....
1580518;1481300738;mircea_popescu;his LATIN. bejaysus.
1580519;1481300753;asciilifeform;also there are a bunch of IIS boxes in there?!
1580520;1481300754;*;trinque figgered
1580521;1481300770;mircea_popescu;Framedragger aha. building the uci from the floor up!
1580522;1481300782;asciilifeform;e.g., http://83.3.79.122
1580523;1481300788;asciilifeform;i dun think these have anything to do with debian...
1580524;1481300833;trinque;could be router out front with ssh, www port forwarded?
1580525;1481300842;asciilifeform;could.
1580526;1481300866;asciilifeform;or even winblows box sitting where phuctored-ssh box sat in july.
1580527;1481300872;asciilifeform;(dynamic ip etc)
1580528;1481300898;Framedragger;or windows admin running ssh server so he can actually get work done :p
1580529;1481300919;trinque;yeah, there's also cygwin
1580530;1481300927;asciilifeform;btw when i last did scan, moar of these boxen answered to https than http
1580531;1481300952;mircea_popescu;as is befitting
1580532;1481300974;asciilifeform;the embedded shitwares (cams, phones, etc) in particular.
1580533;1481301208;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you happen to recall the nominally last rngless debian ?
1580534;1481301244;mircea_popescu;was it fixed in iirc may 2008 ?
1580535;1481301254;asciilifeform;this was the claim
1580536;1481301305;asciilifeform;however!
1580537;1481301307;asciilifeform;curl http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored-ssh-boxes/all.txt | grep lenny
1580538;1481301324;mircea_popescu;broadly everytyhing up to lenny
1580539;1481301334;asciilifeform;lenny came out in '09
1580540;1481301337;mircea_popescu;yes.
1580541;1481301360;mircea_popescu;then squeeze wheezy an' currently jessie.
1580542;1481301391;asciilifeform;etch was updated through 2010, according to https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEtch , but i am seeing all versions
1580543;1481301406;mircea_popescu;in practice deployed versions often don't get updated
1580544;1481301410;asciilifeform;'lenny' is not , officially, supposed to appear at all
1580545;1481301420;mircea_popescu;(about two thirds of the devs think they are updating, about one third of boxes do get updated)
1580546;1481301625;asciilifeform;and lol, Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) PHP/5.3.3-7+squeeze19 with Suhosin-Patch mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.6.6 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8 Server at 65.111.164.90 Port 80
1580547;1481301628;asciilifeform;squeeze ?!
1580548;1481301632;asciilifeform;circa 2011 ?!
1580549;1481301675;asciilifeform;could it really be?!111 a bunch of pro liars LIED?!11111111?
1580550;1481301694;Framedragger;ssh host key not automatically regenned upon upgarde, is it
1580551;1481301699;Framedragger;upgrade*
1580552;1481301712;mircea_popescu;^ most likely explanation.
1580553;1481301715;*;asciilifeform does not know
1580554;1481301724;mircea_popescu;it was said at the time that the breach is unfixable, because it requires regeneration of keys.
1580555;1481301732;asciilifeform;but that's the most plausible theory i've heard so far.
1580556;1481301905;mircea_popescu;it is marginalyl funny just how happy to break everyone's processes these schmucks are to introduce, eg, mandatory-unicode-via-python-3 but how suddenly waxy-poetic and careful they are when it comes to user security.
1580557;1481301915;mircea_popescu;forcing key regeneration on update was the right move there.
1580558;1481301933;mircea_popescu;just as allowing python-3 out of experimental was the wrong move.
1580559;1481301953;asciilifeform;http://200.127.145.2 << argentina, 'hand-made' orc flavour
1580560;1481302057;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i must point out that, e.g., commonlisp, which was designed sanely from the beginning ('character' != 'byte') can and often is unicodified with ~0 headache
1580561;1481302112;asciilifeform;'character'=='byte' is retarded even if you are a roman and only intend to use the letters on the alphabetic kbd till the day you die
1580562;1481302136;mircea_popescu;sure but what's that to do with anything ? "on my car which has an engine, adjusting the intake valves does things" "he's got a bycicle!"
1580563;1481302181;asciilifeform;it has to do with why python3 was doomed to be an abortion
1580564;1481302193;mircea_popescu;nobody, and certainly not me, prevented python people from moving to sane data structures or anything.
1580565;1481302202;asciilifeform;the 'character is byte' thing was baked into the earlier python, conceptually.
1580566;1481302254;mircea_popescu;yes. that's the point.
1580567;1481302260;asciilifeform;for this reason, jurov's pgp key (iirc it was him...) to this very day does not display in phuctor
1580568;1481302279;mircea_popescu;if you are stewarding an apple tree, you'll fucking deliver apples till the day you die ; you do not come up with a way to make the apple tree make shitty plums.
1580569;1481302322;mircea_popescu;this "modernisation and progress is the destruction of items by people who didn't like them in the first place" nonsense is pretty far out there.
1580570;1481302347;mircea_popescu;if they didn't want to play in the character=byte garden they're more thanwelcome to go learn lisp.
1580571;1481302373;mircea_popescu;just like the fucktards who don't like bitcoin aren't permitted to "upgrade it" ; they have to go do ethereum or whatever the fuck doge ripple solidcoin bullshitcoin they do.
1580572;1481302380;asciilifeform;if afghani did not want to fuck goat, he should move to rotterham ?
1580573;1481302390;mircea_popescu;either that or drop dead.
1580574;1481302415;asciilifeform;if folks dropped dead simply by being asked politely!
1580575;1481302433;mircea_popescu;gotta start somewhere.
1580576;1481302465;asciilifeform;and of course mice, rats would much rather 'upgrade bitcoin' in your pantry than in the winter forest
1580577;1481302481;asciilifeform;it makes the only possible sense from their pov.
1580578;1481302509;asciilifeform;see also aesop's insects
1580579;1481302702;mircea_popescu;heh. myeah.
1580580;1481305699;mircea_popescu;hot damn that was a heavy piece.
1580581;1481306734;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/modernism-and-traditionalism/ << Trilema - Modernism ; and traditionalism
1580582;1481306870;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580275 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Dlr8k/?raw=true has been chewing for ~day now, i'll chime in when it wraps
1580583;1481306870;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 12:28 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579752 << seeing as nobody was doing that, here's the result of basically that: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored-ssh-boxes/ - i may or may not do the other things (banners for http/ssh/telnet/ftp/etc), everyone feel free to do the latter, you can
1580584;1481306899;asciilifeform;neato ben_vulpes
1580585;1481306990;ben_vulpes;you teed it up nicely, didn't take much more.
1580586;1481307149;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: might want to handle the barf case (if box times out)
1580587;1481307155;asciilifeform;phuctor, that is
1580588;1481307217;ben_vulpes;only grabs the ip list at the beginning of run, doesn't have any provisions for restart.
1580589;1481307228;ben_vulpes;stone knife and bearskin scan
1580590;1481307262;ben_vulpes;i think the major time wastage in it are the curl calls without timeout
1580591;1481307378;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: my original interest in subj was to identify equivalence classes of diddled boxen
1580592;1481307410;asciilifeform;the parfumeries, kibbutzim, etc. www tour was not particularly productive.
1580593;1481307433;asciilifeform;( if someone feels like writing to some of these folx, to see what happens, i don't particularly care )
1580594;1481307655;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579768 << i suppose that i mis-parsed the 80/443 comment here due to immune system load
1580595;1481307655;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 15:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the things to scan, that very often are found: 80 (http), 443 (ssl), and if either found, the page; if ssl -- the cert id strings (see l0gz for how) , and lastly, ftp (yes, believe or now) and telnet greetings.
1580596;1481307725;ben_vulpes;i'll take a look at where it is in the list of phucked ips later and make a call as to whether its worthwhile to kill it and start over
1580597;1481309928;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/modernism-and-traditionalism/#comment-120051 << mircea_popescu somehow font ended up mangled
1580598;1481309949;asciilifeform;(or is in mod queue, or wat.)
1580599;1481310163;asciilifeform;and hmm mircea_popescu i think you left a <i> open somewhere in the endnotes
1580600;1481310251;asciilifeform;and it nailed the sidebar also
1580601;1481310265;asciilifeform;(how the fuck does that WORK? ... ben_vulpes? anyone?)
1580602;1481310271;ben_vulpes;nope
1580603;1481310280;ben_vulpes;i'm not even looking
1580604;1481310283;asciilifeform;ain't they separate <div>'s..?
1580605;1481310290;ben_vulpes;get out of here
1580606;1481310296;*;asciilifeform has monumentally nfi.
1580607;1481310375;ben_vulpes;http://www.recode.net/2016/12/7/13864776/apple-spotify-60-million-subscribers-7-billion-revenue << bullshit fucking revenue numbers
1580608;1481310384;mircea_popescu;lesee
1580609;1481310393;ben_vulpes;no i get it, your turbine sees a lot of flow, and has an efficiency of less than one percent
1580610;1481310407;mircea_popescu;oddly i dun see it.
1580611;1481310431;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's an italicization of ~entire page, and you gotta fire up a graphical wwwtron to see it
1580612;1481310450;mircea_popescu;o look!
1580613;1481310456;ben_vulpes;starts in xxxii
1580614;1481310504;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fixed nao ?
1580615;1481310510;ben_vulpes;in other lols child apparently has muscle and coordination for rubber band play
1580616;1481310513;*;ben_vulpes bbl, fireworks
1580617;1481310514;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yes
1580618;1481310657;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580179 << goes back to tmsr compiling things. instead of the obvious conclusion "most applicants don't know how to program and most interviewers don't know how to interview" you get insanity "this problem is a special problem!!1"
1580619;1481310657;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 02:37 mircea_popescu: but what i specifically take issue with is the claim that "There is no clear way in any languages". what the heck ?
1580620;1481310914;asciilifeform;in other lulz, völkischer beobachter interviews, supposedly, pedopizza hunter: https://archive.is/4aFDV
1580621;1481310932;asciilifeform;'“The intel on this wasn’t 100 percent,” he said. However, he refused to dismiss outright the claims in the online articles, conceding only that there were no children “inside that dwelling.” He also said that child slavery was a worldwide phenomenon.'
1580622;1481311011;mircea_popescu;phf ikr ? but for my peace of mind, it's about as special as apricot's a special fruit, right ?
1580623;1481311147;asciilifeform;imho the notion of 'standard exam problem' is terrifyingly ridiculous
1580624;1481311160;asciilifeform;it is how you breed americanized imbeciles
1580625;1481311209;mircea_popescu;this is perfectly workable : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579890
1580626;1481311209;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 17:28 mircea_popescu: there are a number of reasons for this. 1. robots eat electricity ; humans eat a sort of oil derivate ; see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577962 ; 2. robots are an industrial product, this costs ~nothing while "well brainwashed humans" are the equivalent of a "well behaved wife". tell you what, here's a half billion girlies in your "civilised world", you have a week to find a wife. let me know what you spent.
1580627;1481311357;asciilifeform;re: ^, must point out, that robot eats a number of other items in addition to mains current (replacement parts, made of ~entire mendeleev table, as well as petro-plastics)
1580628;1481311366;mircea_popescu;no i mean as a standard exam problem
1580629;1481311373;mircea_popescu;"find a wife, you have a week, let me know what you spent".
1580630;1481311384;mircea_popescu;as in eg, king has seven sons, who shall inherit the throne.
1580631;1481311392;asciilifeform;that's not exam, that is actual war
1580632;1481311408;mircea_popescu;well yes. standardized exam === actual war.
1580633;1481311429;asciilifeform;exam, as commonly understood, is 'war-lite'
1580634;1481311431;mircea_popescu;"here's a dull knife and a ballsac sling, bring a bear."
1580635;1481311439;mircea_popescu;well the idiocy of wall lite needs no further expounding.
1580636;1481311443;mircea_popescu;war*
1580637;1481311820;phf;i've been asking people to implement StringIO/StringBuilder/string-output-stream pattern. my original thinking was that while totally self contained problem it's a nice segue into gc, memory/runtime tradeoffs, threading, etc. just a baseline "are we on the same page" phone screening. i've went through about 35 "send us your resume" people and none of them could do it :o
1580638;1481311904;phf;literally nobody can tell me what the potential downsides of `for i in xrange(1000000): a += "foo"` are
1580639;1481312113;phf;one guy ("10 years of unix experience") canceled the screening because i told him he'll have to ssh into a shared screen and i'll ask him some questions
1580640;1481312143;trinque;python went around claiming easy foar noob; you expect random python guy to think about what's happening at any level below "muh python code" ?
1580641;1481312148;trinque;it's like smooshing moar string on what
1580642;1481312161;asciilifeform;phf: to quote one such 'speshul trainflake' i encountered once, 'you should be making me an offer, and not asking me to do tricks'
1580643;1481312163;phf;a shared online webpad bullshit they get, "ssh into my box so you can have a sane editor" they start freaking  out
1580644;1481312209;phf;asciilifeform: yeap same excuse!
1580645;1481312228;trinque;"whore, your whole purpose here will be to do tricks"
1580646;1481312470;trinque;hiring only works through wot, formal or meat-implemented, and the "I will create an arena and find humans" really only works well if the whole society is the arena.
1580647;1481312524;ben_vulpes;someone once wanted me to code in a google doc
1580648;1481312526;ben_vulpes;shit you not
1580649;1481312533;trinque;I bet it was JS
1580650;1481312536;trinque;or rubby
1580651;1481312540;ben_vulpes;worse
1580652;1481312542;ben_vulpes;clojure
1580653;1481312542;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: nice. re. curl timeouts, yeah you need them, otherwise it'll hand for a long time on some of those IPs (i saw this) :)
1580654;1481312545;trinque;lolk
1580655;1481312577;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: d'you know what the default curl timeout is offhand?
1580656;1481312580;Framedragger;`-m 10` should be enough
1580657;1481312585;Framedragger;there is none!
1580658;1481312590;ben_vulpes;tight
1580659;1481312591;Framedragger;i saw one sitting for > hour
1580660;1481312633;trinque;did it barf any headers before doing that?
1580661;1481312644;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you can use generic timeout util, e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579775
1580662;1481312644;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 15:41 asciilifeform: sshello=`timeout -k 0m 3s nc $ip 22`;
1580663;1481312658;asciilifeform;avoids the util-specific braindamage
1580664;1481312693;phf;ben_vulpes: that's sop now. i sort of go for interviewes every month or so to see what's out there, etc. and the past two years i had a lot of http://collabedit.com screenings
1580665;1481312696;ben_vulpes;shoulda, yes.
1580666;1481312711;Framedragger;trinque: by default it shows how long it sits, but that's about it, by default no headers etc
1580667;1481312812;ben_vulpes;phf: i'd rather see someone use the editor they already have set up to attack problems in the domain for which they're under consideration for hiring
1580668;1481313237;phf;one place (outsourced quants) brought out three laptops and asked me which environment i prefered, i thought that was pretty classy. (they had a really wide range, because every time someone said something obscure, they'd put it on the machine. like the linux box had emacs, with a lot of package preloaded and reasonably configured, mac box had intellij and such)
1580669;1481313273;trinque;Framedragger: would've been interesting to see if it was some kind of misconfigured long-polling HTTP situation or what
1580670;1481313291;asciilifeform;phf: classy is when entire contact is over email.
1580671;1481313316;phf;but their screening was half hour collabedit and the entirety of it was "here's a problem, now hack, ok half hour's up"
1580672;1481313332;asciilifeform;what sort of problem
1580673;1481313336;asciilifeform;helloworld? quicksort?
1580674;1481313347;asciilifeform;(this was 'generic' programming work..?)
1580675;1481313465;trinque;dunno if "what can you do with our configured work env" is very interesting
1580676;1481313486;trinque;whether I can code without access to *my* emacs tells someone very little about what I can do with it
1580677;1481313560;phf;it was helloworld, but randomized out of a hat. i think it was a number theoretical problem, like here's a property of a number, write a check for that property
1580678;1481313579;Framedragger;trinque: yeah, hm. i've seen more than one instance on that. i see what you mean. it was basically a case of, from what i gathered, "data sent; waiting for response; not a single byte sent back by server". either because server wasn't http, or some "hang forever, fucker" anti-DoS measure..
1580679;1481313586;Framedragger;of that*
1580680;1481313609;phf;this is for generic programming but with "maths" involved (i has some background in instrument pricing)
1580681;1481313612;trinque;right, packet drop vs rst or w/e
1580682;1481313715;asciilifeform;phf: in my experience the exams are never 'skill test' and always purely binary weedout against http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580234 people
1580683;1481313715;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 03:06 mircea_popescu: needless to say this produced "correct" responses through the insufferable avenue of missing out on the problem.
1580684;1481313767;asciilifeform;nobody cares how quickly you 'helloworld', but if instead you write down 'why should i have to do this, i expected to see a fat offer!!!' the interviewer learns something quite important.
1580685;1481313810;*;trinque had an interview at 19 with an ex-msft guy who was later his CEO
1580686;1481313817;trinque;guy screamed at me the whole time asking logic riddles
1580687;1481313827;trinque;also, a filter
1580688;1481313828;asciilifeform;ditto if you came in to work as reverser and the question sheet asks 'what does 'SHL RAX, 1' do ??'c and you write down some nonsense
1580689;1481313924;asciilifeform;picture if you were interviewing a freight truck driver and you are presented with a fella who has nfi what is brake, what is gas pedal.
1580690;1481313927;asciilifeform;or what gears are
1580691;1481313937;trinque;wouldn't it be more interesting to give them a problem that implies they know asm ? i.e. there is a robotic arm in a factory, RISC processor, here are the motions it should perform at these intervals
1580692;1481313942;trinque;write controlling code, come back in a week or w/e
1580693;1481313954;Framedragger;"work sample tests, motherfuckers"
1580694;1481313968;asciilifeform;trinque: example concerned x86 vuln finder/exploiter firms
1580695;1481313986;trinque;point is projects as evaluations rather than that kind of baseline shit
1580696;1481313989;phf;asciilifeform: right, my point is that there are two separate steps. "filter out" and then "test skillz"
1580697;1481313992;asciilifeform;trinque: they would also give problems in other common archs (arm, mips)
1580698;1481313992;trinque;so I know how to shift a register, what
1580699;1481314008;asciilifeform;trinque: nobody cares that you know. but plenty of folks care if you do ~not~ know!
1580700;1481314019;asciilifeform;that's how exams work.
1580701;1481314036;*;trinque had a job which involved sniffing / mangling packets; task to get hired was to write a parser for yahoo IM
1580702;1481314038;asciilifeform;phf: 'test skillz' inevitably happens on the job, in live fire.
1580703;1481314053;trinque;the code I produced ended up in the actual product
1580704;1481314055;asciilifeform;trinque: this was done in exam room ? or at home
1580705;1481314059;trinque;at home
1580706;1481314063;trinque;over a few days
1580707;1481314067;phf;trinque: did they pay you for it? ;)
1580708;1481314069;trinque;no
1580709;1481314072;asciilifeform;lol
1580710;1481314078;phf;hehe
1580711;1481314079;trinque;they paid with a job
1580712;1481314080;trinque;:D
1580713;1481314086;phf;yeah, no.
1580714;1481314096;asciilifeform;how many folks did they 'pay' with a 'no thx, maybe later, thx for the phreeee code'
1580715;1481314099;Framedragger;( yeah, SV is web scale but SV interviews are not :D )
1580716;1481314105;trinque;I said I was 19; that's light abuse !
1580717;1481314132;trinque;asciilifeform: the job was also in my wot
1580718;1481314146;phf;asciilifeform: i feel like that point is long past. i mean, in early 2000s you could get away with that. now if person can produce code ~that you can actually use~ you hire them on the spot, make them the cto :D
1580719;1481314168;asciilifeform;trinque: that is like to say, ' i went to this great bordello...' but then turns out the 'bordello' was own bedroom and the woman -- your wife
1580720;1481314176;trinque;I guess this guy was oldfag 90s, figured I was the candidate, and that was more of an initiation rite than filter
1580721;1481315024;trinque;pretty sad that today that guy would be sued over that interview.
1580722;1481315218;phf;those playing cards always give me glimpses of some deep forgotten childhood
1580723;1481315231;asciilifeform;phf: it's where i got'em
1580724;1481315242;asciilifeform;supposing phf is speaking of mine
1580725;1481315250;phf;yes
1580726;1481315271;asciilifeform;actually they are from my brother's not-quite-forgotten world
1580727;1481315292;asciilifeform;that lost atlantis.
1580728;1481315612;phf;card works as good as chinese caliper. cut to GOST 7114-54 within +-0.7mm of allowed error margin.
1580729;1481315619;asciilifeform;aha!
1580730;1481315632;asciilifeform;phf: caliper incidentally is not chinese, comes with cert from jp ministry of standards
1580731;1481315657;asciilifeform;(i did not call'em up and verify the serial... but the thing worx great, is extremely repeatable)
1580732;1481315682;asciilifeform;i do not own many 'gold toilets' but that one is quite useful.
1580733;1481316117;phf;i know mitutoyo, but the joke doesn't quite work with a jp company. "honorable datskovskiy san received boxes 1 through 5 with replica card prints cut to 0.1mm, 0.2mm, 0.3mm, 0.5mm and 0.7mm allowed error margins, that mitutoyo san found presumptuous to include with own humble compliments"
1580734;1481316137;asciilifeform;lel
1580735;1481316154;asciilifeform;'for your convenience, we have packaged the mutilated cards SEPARATELY!!!!111'
1580736;1481316828;shinohai;!~btc.blocks 400100
1580737;1481316829;jhvh1;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/400100
1580738;1481316895;asciilifeform;in related noose, there are at least 6 operating trb nodes, and that is just in the heathen catalogue! ( https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/ ) and only those with default verstring
1580739;1481316968;ben_vulpes;no points for spotting mine
1580740;1481316979;asciilifeform;if i had to guess, sk is jurov's
1580741;1481316997;asciilifeform;and iirc trinque also had
1580742;1481317053;trinque;yep, not listed there
1580743;1481317056;trinque;deedbot.org IP
1580744;1481317084;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu iirc also has at least one, but iirc he's on some year1 version thereof and in fact i have nfi whether it even worx, or he still uses own 'mpb'
1580745;1481317216;asciilifeform;trinque: the heathens only list a node if it reports >0.8 iirc.
1580746;1481317242;asciilifeform;(entirely blind version num check, they give 0 shit what command set node responds to etc)
1580747;1481317244;trinque;I've seen mine on that same site before, but no longer.
1580748;1481317298;asciilifeform;iirc they do exactly as you might expect, port scan, and if it's your box's turn and you're in, e.g., blackhole, it'll delist
1580749;1481317319;asciilifeform;then, if it's your turn again, and your box answers - it gets displayed
1580750;1481317375;asciilifeform;the bulk of the reason i even wrote the 'programmable verstring' patch to begin with is to determine, experimentally, whether enemy would willingly go along with displaying directory of public trb urinals, or not
1580751;1481317388;asciilifeform;to get a sense if their overall census is even slightly believable
1580752;1481317416;asciilifeform;somewhat surprisingly -- it really is a dumb surveybot, does not seem to do anything peculiar other than the >0.8 test.
1580753;1481317467;asciilifeform;(does 0, naturally, to distinguish pseudonodes from nodes or any of this.)
1580754;1481317500;trinque;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ez6FR/?raw=true << only two inbounds
1580755;1481317516;trinque;poor lonely deedbutt
1580756;1481317547;trinque;wait, strike that, reverse it
1580757;1481317554;phf;did wotpaste change urls?
1580758;1481317584;trinque;both work, but he's moving to that one
1580759;1481317590;phf;kk
1580760;1481317631;ben_vulpes;^
1580761;1481317659;phf;ben_vulpes: fyi wotpaste help in "How?" still uses old url
1580762;1481317687;ben_vulpes;thanks phf
1580763;1481318044;asciilifeform;it still very much itches in asciilifeform's brain that we still do not have any means for fixed peering in trb
1580764;1481318069;asciilifeform;( because - at least as i understand it - it requires the entire spittoon )
1580765;1481318308;ben_vulpes;"fixed peering" as in "connect to these and only these IPs"?
1580766;1481318536;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: ^^
1580767;1481318593;asciilifeform;no.
1580768;1481318616;asciilifeform;'these-here NODES take absolute priority over others'
1580769;1481318628;asciilifeform;ip-as-identity is retarded.
1580770;1481318709;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: see also: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-20#1378046
1580771;1481318709;a111;Logged on 2016-01-20 02:05 asciilifeform: so i will review, for the benefit of non-panzers, the current state
1580772;1481318773;ben_vulpes;yes, i recall
1580773;1481318903;asciilifeform;every time i go and reopen this can of worms and look at the code, i end up realizing that the thing is ~unfixable
1580774;1481318961;asciilifeform;in the sense where there is no mechanism for safely preempting a stalled conversation with another node, or allocating time quanta, or even (gasp) allowing >1 operation across blockchain or mempool in PARALLEL
1580775;1481318978;asciilifeform;and to introduce ANY such thing would mutilate, beyond recognition, 'grandfather's pistol'.
1580776;1481318998;phf;ben_vulpes: connect to these and only these is a trivial change, since the logic all sits within 30 lines of code, but ^
1580777;1481319009;asciilifeform;sorta why i have not touched trb in quite a spell -- there is nothing left to do that is not 'a mutilation' imho
1580778;1481319078;asciilifeform;phf: it is not a trivial change, because if you are not careful you can end up in solipsist world where you can be driven into chain split by a d00d mining on old rusty ford pinto
1580779;1481319080;phf;i have a patch that i'm working on that might help towards that goal
1580780;1481319116;asciilifeform;(the situation where trb nodes, in the ~collective~, can be persuaded to tune out the heathen world, is precisely it)
1580781;1481319133;asciilifeform;mining - afaik - remains a thing that happens among the heathens strictly.
1580782;1481319156;phf;right, trivial as specified, unrelated to shooting self at foot
1580783;1481319176;asciilifeform;it is like to say that self-appendectomy is trivial. in aspects -- it is.
1580784;1481319195;asciilifeform;take knife. cut.
1580785;1481319275;phf;su strategy of "assume this self-appendectomy guide is written for leonid rogozov, ignore 80% mortality rate from application"
1580786;1481319302;asciilifeform;so long as reader knows where he stands.
1580787;1481319378;asciilifeform;the 'fixed peers' thing is actually the tip of a very nontrivial iceberg, because bitcoin was not in fact designed as a 'wotronic' mechanism, and it is not clear that 'nothing to allcomers' is safely retrofittable on it
1580788;1481319400;asciilifeform;witness mircea_popescu's frustrations every time he transmits a tx and nothing happens
1580789;1481319416;phf;sshh it'll start that thread that you had with mp again
1580790;1481319417;asciilifeform;( or yours, or mine )
1580791;1481319421;asciilifeform;lel
1580792;1481319546;asciilifeform;my point is that artificially rationing connections to trb will lead to ~slower~ propagation, rather than faster -- unless it alleviates severa spamola, as my 'banhammer' did
1580793;1481319550;asciilifeform;*severe
1580794;1481319575;asciilifeform;this is because there is -- and afaik to this very day -- a thick layer of prb between any of us and any miner.
1580795;1481319624;asciilifeform;( if anyone can come up with a rigorous experiment to measure the whether and how-much of this -- do speak up.)
1580796;1481319972;asciilifeform;incidentally : for so long as block verification remains O(N) and serial, trb is vulnerable to a very trivial malformed-block ddos
1580797;1481320023;asciilifeform;(whereas parallelizing it would entail getting rid of the hundreds of idiot global locks, and the ensuing wtf)
1580798;1481320072;asciilifeform;if enemy had even half of its shit together, instead of busying itself with imbecile alt-scams, we would have some problems.
1580799;1481324127;ben_vulpes;blockchain.info falling behind?
1580800;1481324146;ben_vulpes;anyone have a node at hand, care to share what height you're at?
1580801;1481324175;shinohai;!~blocks
1580802;1481324176;jhvh1;shinohai: {"blockcount":442711}
1580803;1481324231;ben_vulpes;shinohai: whence comes that number
1580804;1481324257;shinohai;^blockchain.info
1580805;1481324272;trinque;lol
1580806;1481324308;ben_vulpes;fuckin weird, 'cause their webpage does not report that
1580807;1481324311;ben_vulpes;i just caught 442712
1580808;1481324347;*;trinque waiting for deedbutt to fart an answer
1580809;1481324355;ben_vulpes;trinque: blackholed?
1580810;1481324382;shinohai;!~btc.blocks 442712
1580811;1481324382;jhvh1;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/442712
1580812;1481324384;trinque;no, just some guy thought the API should block when it's doing *anything*
1580813;1481324386;ben_vulpes;aaaand 13
1580814;1481324486;ben_vulpes;in other wwwtronic toyz: http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate#1d176a0b-2995-4522-b9bd-b14447c6bec7
1580815;1481324499;ben_vulpes;note the barf that got mimi kicked off for flooding
1580816;1481324575;shinohai;blockchain.info website only shows 442709 to me xD
1580817;1481324594;ben_vulpes;glorious imperial infrastructure
1580818;1481324596;*;trinque avoided adding any kind of rate limiting to the bot code because I have yet to find a straight answer on appropriate rate
1580819;1481324610;trinque;"uh like a second per but not always basically when the receive buffer for you is full but also reasons"
1580820;1481324635;ben_vulpes;'twas a solid call.
1580821;1481324666;trinque;if the thing ack'd messages even, you could just send then!
1580822;1481324678;trinque;(if you have moar)
1580823;1481324733;ben_vulpes;eh fuggit, drop shit on the floor wcgw
1580824;1481325140;trinque;points to the moral imperative of making war
1580825;1481325186;trinque;server is retarded and people fart around adding hair to their client hairshirts
1580826;1481325194;trinque;kill the server!
1580827;1481325626;ben_vulpes;in other tlps: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosalindadams/intake
1580828;1481328034;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform, Framedragger: script appears to be ~2/3 through its run; i'm going to let it finish.
1580829;1481333081;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/185DBF5D4298D675A8FC76103F0C8BCD4245E87E1E1FB0238D2D2D24378B73B9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2398...0967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '70.100.42.43 (ssh-rsa key from 70.100.42.43 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (70-100-42-43.br1.sho.az.frontiernet.net. US AZ)
1580830;1481336133;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580642 << all oif you have it easy. i once had 150+ cvs sent within 24 hours to a (sales) management position ALL by waitresses, cooks, and other STRICTLY unqualified people.
1580831;1481336133;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 19:36 asciilifeform: phf: to quote one such 'speshul trainflake' i encountered once, 'you should be making me an offer, and not asking me to do tricks'
1580832;1481336272;mircea_popescu;"this position requires CEFR:C2 for both english and german" "took german in highschool."
1580833;1481336513;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580657 << possibly the stupidest idea in all of curl, to not have a default timeout.
1580834;1481336513;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 19:43 Framedragger: there is none!
1580835;1481336813;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580676 << this really is the difference between hiring and partnership, though.
1580836;1481336813;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 19:58 trinque: whether I can code without access to *my* emacs tells someone very little about what I can do with it
1580837;1481336940;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580684 << thinking outside da box!
1580838;1481336940;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 20:02 asciilifeform: nobody cares how quickly you 'helloworld', but if instead you write down 'why should i have to do this, i expected to see a fat offer!!!' the interviewer learns something quite important.
1580839;1481337069;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580708 << which is why "tests" are dimly regarded by many professionals.
1580840;1481337069;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 20:07 trinque: no
1580841;1481339047;asciilifeform;in other lulz: not everyone can buy a mig, but.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/322073122808
1580842;1481339411;phf;i feel like you need to figure out how to connect it to your lispm, for that proper "we used to be Men" experience
1580843;1481339600;asciilifeform;double, quadruple, the depression-induction power!1111
1580844;1481339675;mircea_popescu;lol at least get the dildo!
1580845;1481339726;asciilifeform;https://www.ebay.com/itm/322313504666  << mustn't forget the gear shift also...
1580846;1481339787;asciilifeform;have 'almost mig' !111 just like emacs is 'almost lispm'
1580847;1481339801;mircea_popescu;this #chainstate chan's a good idea. /me trolled it for good measure.
1580848;1481339830;asciilifeform;what's that
1580849;1481339842;mircea_popescu;block explorer's chan
1580850;1481340177;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: mimisbrunnr relays basic block stats to #chainstate
1580851;1481340186;asciilifeform;aaah
1580852;1481340199;ben_vulpes;in trinque's spirit of showing early, it's running now
1580853;1481340228;ben_vulpes;and the lordship et al are invited to gawk at the dumbot
1580854;1481340241;phf;"make your own mig" http://68.media.tumblr.com/16883e8accafa9ec0b0ee2b037ba11d4/tumblr_ohxssqvc4T1uu4f9zo1_500.jpg
1580855;1481340244;*;shinohai kicks sand
1580856;1481340248;mircea_popescu;can we throw it pizdnuts ?
1580857;1481340273;ben_vulpes;lol that's a new one for me
1580858;1481340288;mircea_popescu;it's like peanuts basically.
1580859;1481340290;ben_vulpes;some kind of sk portmanteau?
1580860;1481341854;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/473DC6186FD220FF04A5F88556AA616EDB94018B7B8CB8642A3B6974BDBC1900 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1546...0109 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '189.254.33.154 (ssh-rsa key from 189.254.33.154 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (customer-189-254-33-154-sta.uninet-ide.com.mx. MX MEX)
1580861;1481342315;pete_dushenski;semi-dessicated airfoil reporting for duty!
1580862;1481342323;mircea_popescu;lol
1580863;1481342341;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/E9dsC << best democracy is no democracy according to millenials. juicy stats enclosed.
1580864;1481342483;asciilifeform;https://www.ebay.com/itm/191912124177  << holy shit, that d00d parts these things out, sells... ben_vulpes could build whole machine again.
1580865;1481342485;pete_dushenski;http://www.contravex.com/2014/05/11/mpex-vs-the-play-bitcoin-exchanges/#comment-53154 << multi-comment thread between rando and yours truly. mircea_popescu may be (very) mildly interested. looks like vague reader of logs has decided that mpex is no longer a viable business because... trading volume.
1580866;1481342523;pete_dushenski;wasn't there an old comment from non-senile buffett re: trading volume ?
1580867;1481342527;mircea_popescu;good for 'im
1580868;1481342587;pete_dushenski;mya. dunno why he thinks ~i~ should be tasked with defending mpex instead of presenting his limp challenges here but... ya.
1580869;1481342606;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: looks like ol' pankkake
1580870;1481342621;pete_dushenski;o.O
1580871;1481342636;asciilifeform;( i have nfi why d00d gives a shit )
1580872;1481342639;*;pete_dushenski didn't pick up this scent. pats alf dog on snout.
1580873;1481342770;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: has turbines for sale?
1580874;1481342780;mircea_popescu;3d printed!
1580875;1481342904;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/185DBF5D4298D675A8FC76103F0C8BCD4245E87E1E1FB0238D2D2D24378B73B9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1525...8219 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '70.100.42.43 (ssh-rsa key from 70.100.42.43 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (70-100-42-43.br1.sho.az.frontiernet.net. US AZ)
1580876;1481346727;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1580877;1481346734;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 770.78, vol: 2865.19785049 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 762.001, vol: 2896.93333 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 773.16, vol: 3224.2749591 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 782.280552, vol: 2544510.87780000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 774.629, vol: 894.64006935 | Volume-weighted last average: 782.230460854
1580878;1481349315;BingoBoingo;More Emacs http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/should-i-build-or-buy-a-workbench/
1580879;1481349351;ben_vulpes;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545&cpage=1#comment-17716 << lwat
1580880;1481369523;mircea_popescu;"The most quoted phrase took words from an e-mail of 16 November 1999 written by Phil Jones which referred to a graph he was preparing as a diagram for the cover of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) statement on the status of global climate in 1999.[203][204] Jones wrote: "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie, from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 fo
1580881;1481369523;mircea_popescu;r Keith's to hide the decline."[205] In science, the term "trick" is slang for a clever (and legitimate) technique, in this case Michael E. Mann's technique for comparing two different data sets,[206] and "the decline" referred to the already published divergence problem with tree ring density proxies affecting the post 1960 part of Keith Briffa's reconstruction graph. Despite this and the fact that 1999 had just seen record
1580882;1481369524;mircea_popescu;breaking global temperatures, the email was widely misquoted as a "trick" to "hide the decline" as though it referred to a decline in measured global temperatures, an accusation made publicly by the politicians Sarah Palin and Jim Inhofe" << the wikipedia unhappening of the original global warming fraud is nothing short of astounding.
1580883;1481369578;mircea_popescu;i suppose we start calling nigger assets masquerading as "scientists" trickers from now on, on the basis of you know, "a trick" being "slang" for "a clever and legitimate technique". you know, "in science".
1580884;1481370301;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/the-cosubstantial-lie/ << Trilema - The cosubstantial lie
1580885;1481376027;shinohai;!!deed http://btcinfo.sdf.org/gpg/parachute.asc
1580886;1481376063;deedbot;accepted: 1
1580887;1481377439;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580885 << ummm shinohai ... that looks like 1 column??
1580888;1481377439;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 13:20 shinohai: !!deed http://btcinfo.sdf.org/gpg/parachute.asc
1580889;1481377460;asciilifeform;what happened here?
1580890;1481377544;shinohai;i see 2 colums do u
1580891;1481377549;asciilifeform;hmm
1580892;1481377552;shinohai;*column
1580893;1481377563;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/04241AA1CB3A7D54599DF787D276651AD4A96531F3372360B21971E9279EBFC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2790...1797 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.151.243.160 (ssh-rsa key from 88.151.243.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (radium.openminds.be. BE)
1580894;1481377563;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/473DC6186FD220FF04A5F88556AA616EDB94018B7B8CB8642A3B6974BDBC1900 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...4533 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '189.254.33.154 (ssh-rsa key from 189.254.33.154 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (customer-189-254-33-154-sta.uninet-ide.com.mx. MX MEX)
1580895;1481377567;*;asciilifeform goes to machine with larger display
1580896;1481377743;asciilifeform;gotta love crapple's autowrap
1580897;1481377786;shinohai;O.o
1580898;1481378502;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580884 << neato! ty for the translation mircea_popescu
1580899;1481378502;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 11:45 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-cosubstantial-lie/ << Trilema - The cosubstantial lie
1580900;1481378681;mircea_popescu;my pleasure
1580901;1481378734;mircea_popescu;as you can see, there's deep reasons why the socialist state (ie, the social machinery of lies) to depend and pretend from the "scientific progress" ie the theoretical machine of lies.. the whole arrangement is predicated on "we eat and science guy will come by later and settle the bill" for this very reason.
1580902;1481378782;mircea_popescu;this observation is strengthened by noticing that if what passes for idealists such as yourself or me as "legitimate" science (say, qm) chokes, ~science itself~ will produce "science" at the same rate, but of the "earth sciences and climatology" ilk.
1580903;1481378802;mircea_popescu;ie, science, technology, scientific and technological progress etc aren't driven by the naive, idealist "curiosity" of "bright folks"
1580904;1481378816;mircea_popescu;they're driven by the lie machine need for specific future-extending lies
1580905;1481378827;mircea_popescu;and this is how "science" as a state mechanism, with grants etc came about.
1580906;1481378853;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/pharma-execs-arrested-for-selling-medicine/ << Qntra - Pharma Execs Arrested For Selling Medicine
1580907;1481379318;mircea_popescu;and for that matter, the "general population" desire to play the "modern democracy" game is so great - they will happily pretend! ipads are a thing, notwithstanding they're a regression in any conceivable sense, because "dude feels like data in star trek" which is to say, in plain terms, "because we understand our socialist state needs socialist science to be a thing, and we patriotically do our part in pretending it is a thi
1580908;1481379318;mircea_popescu;ng".
1580909;1481379322;mircea_popescu;then the orcs buy it up.
1580910;1481379806;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there are very real and appealing vices driving, e.g., crapple. sloth, for instance.
1580911;1481379842;asciilifeform;asciilifeform reads on one when he can't be arsed to get out of bed
1580912;1481379943;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580905 << mr mold called it 'scientocracy', and it has 0 to do with, e.g., newton 's or kelvin's science
1580913;1481379943;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 14:07 mircea_popescu: and this is how "science" as a state mechanism, with grants etc came about.
1580914;1481382633;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/bnd-inquiry << in other lulz.
1580915;1481384735;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/04241AA1CB3A7D54599DF787D276651AD4A96531F3372360B21971E9279EBFC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1645...1129 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.151.243.160 (ssh-rsa key from 88.151.243.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (radium.openminds.be. BE)
1580916;1481386459;asciilifeform;http://lyndonlarouche.org/newamericanfascism.htm << in very other non-noose. 'This is not a democratic situation; this is a time where democracy is the worst factor you can get. You've got a democracy in the streets now, they want to kill these guys. That's the democracy I want to hear from. I don't want to hear from these so-called Democrats; I want to hear from the killers!'
1580917;1481387177;asciilifeform;'Just as LaRouche took issue with Hitler's version of total mobilization, so he criticized the Nazi leader's military strategy of waging a two-front war against both the West and the Soviet Union. Hitler should have mopped up the Rothschilds' headquarters, Britain, before marching east. The London blitz was not carried out boldly enough.' << genius.
1580918;1481387587;asciilifeform;elsewhere,
1580919;1481387589;asciilifeform;'But behind the media's "soft" view of LaRouche there was often the rankest hypocrisy. While newspapers portrayed him as a kook they made editorial judgments based on the assumption that he was indeed potentially dangerous—so dangerous that his activities must be concealed from the public lest the truth help his movement grow. Jerome Chasen of the National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council, in a 1986 memorandum on LaRouch
1580920;1481387589;asciilifeform;e's Illinois electoral victories, raised questions about this bizarre "quarantine" policy. Inquiries by the NJCRC, he wrote, had uncovered that "the media in Illinois did know that [Democratic primary candidates] Fairchild and Hart were LaRouchites, and chose not to headline this information, based on a judgment that to do so would give LaRouche a platform in statewide politics he did not deserve."'
1580921;1481389977;mod6;<+asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580885 << ummm shinohai ... that looks like 1 column?? << fwiw, when viewing that link with lynx, i see two columns.
1580922;1481389977;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 13:20 shinohai: !!deed http://btcinfo.sdf.org/gpg/parachute.asc
1580923;1481389981;mod6;(of hashes)
1580924;1481389995;asciilifeform;mod6: see thread, it was an artifact
1580925;1481390080;mod6;im confused.
1580926;1481390115;asciilifeform;mod6: certain very broken browsers wrap columns in such a way that these parachutes appear to be 1 column.
1580927;1481390117;shinohai;crapple
1580928;1481390135;mod6;ah, got it.
1580929;1481390141;mod6;salud
1580930;1481390146;shinohai;o7
1580931;1481391661;mircea_popescu;re the london blitz, this is afaik indisputed agreement, even by the biritsh side. had luftwaffe committed more seriously britain would have likely folded. likelier than any other time.
1580932;1481391802;mircea_popescu;shinohai but then with the same hand he explains how "it makes a very useful" something or the other. in the same hour it humiliated him in the republic, he's there defending it.
1580933;1481391823;mircea_popescu;makes very useful nothing outside of the very useful (to it) belief that it does.
1580934;1481396472;mod6;mornin'
1580935;1481396484;mod6;afternoon. heheh
1580936;1481396965;mircea_popescu;:p
1580937;1481397844;mod6;i love these FUCKGOATS pics.
1580938;1481397882;mod6;hahaha, the bottom is so gd funny.
1580939;1481397953;mod6;:D 'No Such Anus'
1580940;1481398548;mircea_popescu;>D
1580941;1481398781;mod6;This month has been pretty productive for the Foundation already.
1580942;1481398887;shinohai;oh yeah
1580943;1481398902;shinohai;mod6 has sacrificed much
1580944;1481398927;mod6;There was a minor feature request to importprivkey, which was submitted late last month to the ML.  This feature will allow a user to import a private key, but choose which block ight he starts scanning upon import.
1580945;1481398946;mod6;gah. fucking lag.
1580946;1481398951;mod6;lemme try this again.
1580947;1481398990;mod6;This feature will allow a user to import a private key, but choose which block height he starts scanning (for related transactions to the address) upon import.
1580948;1481399029;mod6;We've seen that when you import a private key with the original I sent to the ML, it works great, but it does take the time to scan through the index from genesis to HEAD for transactions.
1580949;1481399047;mod6;Depending on how fast your machine might be, this might take a while.
1580950;1481399052;asciilifeform;mod6: this sounds useful. but why not simply scan backwards ?
1580951;1481399152;mod6;asciilifeform: this could be made to happen indeed.  it seemed more straight-forward to scan from low to high. but again, this could be altered.
1580952;1481399175;mod6;however, this leaves one edge case, I think.  And would need to be tested much before I send this one out.
1580953;1481399356;mod6;This edge case being: If pub/priv keypair A, have been sent 1.0 bitcoins on say, tx 123456789, on block 200`000.  Then sent 0.5 bitcoins from pub/priv keypair A to pubkey address B on block 250`000. If the uesr only scans back from 300`000, the balance in the wallet may not reflect the 0.5 output still there for that pubkey (from keypair A).
1580954;1481399374;asciilifeform;tru
1580955;1481399376;mod6;This might resolve itself by doing a full -rescan, separately.
1580956;1481399392;asciilifeform;but you can blow yourself up like this by mis-specifying start-from-and-go-forward blocknumn also.
1580957;1481399408;mod6;However, this case probably exists, however, we havent replicated it yet -- and not for failing to do so, but it just needs to be setup and tested by shinohai and myself.
1580958;1481399450;mod6;<+asciilifeform> but you can blow yourself up like this by mis-specifying start-from-and-go-forward blocknumn also. << i've tested this a bunch, with a rescan too, and seems ok.  what do you think will be the issue here?
1580959;1481399506;mod6;Anyway, this is all well and good.  Just something we're working on, and considering with the utmost care.
1580960;1481399512;mod6;Meanwhile...
1580961;1481399563;mod6;I've reviewed the rawtx submission that polarbeard sent.
1580962;1481399570;mod6;And I've created a reground patch for that.
1580963;1481399611;mod6;Not being an expert myself on rawtx's, I've decided to try to get familiar with them, and become more of something closer to an expert -- so some mental strengthining has been going on there.
1580964;1481399641;mod6;While doing such work, I decided it'd also be nice (if not for trb integration, for myself) to have some tools to help me construct a rawtx.
1580965;1481399667;mod6;So I've created a patch that so far puts in the ability to view 'listunspent' UXTOs in the wallet.
1580966;1481399673;mod6;Not the end all be all, but a starting point.
1580967;1481399756;mod6;There are maybe a few others that will help as well; maybe a rawtx signing function, and maybe something that decodes rawtxs, maybe also some script decoding?
1580968;1481399783;mod6;Alas, a window into what has been happening for the last 9 days. :]
1580969;1481399827;shinohai;listunspent alone would be very helpful
1580970;1481399877;mod6;asciilifeform: also, there is a techincal reason for going front -> back, as opposed to back -> front.
1580971;1481399949;mod6;The function 'importprivkey' uses an existing wallet.cpp function called CWallet::ScanForWalletTransactions, where you pass this a pointer to the CBlockIndex you want to ~start~ from, then this just iterates forward. by pindex - pindex->pnext;
1580972;1481399962;mod6;gah s/-/=/
1580973;1481400025;mod6;so, if we wanna go backwards, we'd have to create another similar method to go backwards with something like pindex = pindex->pprev.  and this doesn't seem wholly better than what exists.  i guess i did think about this about last week, but just figured putting in less code is better.
1580974;1481400028;asciilifeform;mod6: makes sense
1580975;1481400084;mod6;o7
1580976;1481401845;ben_vulpes;just out of curiosity, anyone care to tell me how large their blockchain is today?
1580977;1481401870;mircea_popescu;442827 ish
1580978;1481401885;ben_vulpes;in gb, silly
1580979;1481401899;mircea_popescu;gotta specify!
1580980;1481401909;ben_vulpes;that'd be tall?
1580981;1481401925;mircea_popescu;fu semanticslawyer!
1580982;1481401952;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes 112.3 ish
1580983;1481401959;asciilifeform;442825 here.
1580984;1481401971;mircea_popescu;lol look at f2pool, 999.9 block jeez.
1580985;1481401979;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah tallest valid confirmed 442825
1580986;1481402016;ben_vulpes;didja see the block yesterday with a single tx in it mircea_popescu ?
1580987;1481402029;mircea_popescu;f2pool got some uber technologies, they make these well utilized blocks.
1580988;1481402033;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yeh.
1580989;1481402064;asciilifeform;hey for all we know, they have a 2-dimensional miner that varies nonce AND BLOCK
1580990;1481402076;mircea_popescu;it's possible (and smart if they do)
1580991;1481402221;asciilifeform;smart how
1580992;1481402236;asciilifeform;if it turns out to be +ev it is a 1way ticket to a useless shitcoin
1580993;1481402244;mircea_popescu;smart in they're currently squeezing a 0.15% more from blocks than everyoneelse.
1580994;1481402266;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry wut ?
1580995;1481402300;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: why would anyone buy the mined coin if it were impossible to transact ?
1580996;1481402431;mircea_popescu;dude, you're such a nut. they make 1mn addresses, combine them into sets of 10, try each combination as payout address for the block.
1580997;1481402439;mircea_popescu;whats c 1mn taken by 10s ?
1580998;1481402489;asciilifeform;aaaah this
1580999;1481402499;mircea_popescu;as a for instance.
1581000;1481402505;asciilifeform;this'd be entirely sensible
1581001;1481402507;mircea_popescu;nobody's giving away tx fees.
1581002;1481402656;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580944 << oh is this making it in ? epic.
1581003;1481402656;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 19:42 mod6: There was a minor feature request to importprivkey, which was submitted late last month to the ML.  This feature will allow a user to import a private key, but choose which block ight he starts scanning upon import.
1581004;1481402745;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580966 << a dawg nice!
1581005;1481402745;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 19:54 mod6: Not the end all be all, but a starting point.
1581006;1481402890;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/romanias-a-dumb-slut-long-live-pharmacy-my-fuckstick/ << Trilema - Romania's a dumb slut! Long live Pharmacy! My fuckstick!
1581007;1481403047;mod6;mircea_popescu: currently, "blocks" : 442825
1581008;1481403141;mod6;oh oh
1581009;1481403149;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> in gb, silly
1581010;1481403168;mod6;114G    /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin
1581011;1481403180;mod6;86M     /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin/debug.log
1581012;1481403198;mod6;(ive been truncating mine on the regular because testing & such)
1581013;1481403222;mod6;!~tslb
1581014;1481403224;jhvh1;mod6: Time since last block: 2 minutes and 52 seconds
1581015;1481403257;mod6;ok yah got 442`826 nao
1581016;1481409917;ben_vulpes;in other tales of eldritch horror: https://medium.com/@tjholowaychuk/farewell-node-js-4ba9e7f3e52b
1581017;1481410192;mats;http://generals.io good for a half hours worth of entertainment
1581018;1481410498;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: 123.3
1581019;1481410517;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: thank you
1581020;1481411502;deedbot;http://explo.yt/post/2016/12/11/Thought-about-Python-3 << serialized delusions - Thought about Python 3
1581021;1481413993;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/10/reimagining-the-metlife-building/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Reimagining the Metlife Building.
1581022;1481416520;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1581023;1481416525;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 767.98, vol: 2318.59502737 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 760.023, vol: 2605.64442 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 764.0, vol: 4223.28821265 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 775.841296, vol: 3945946.24170000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 766.368, vol: 731.88191169 | Volume-weighted last average: 775.811874441
1581024;1481418838;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-27#1530441 << i forgot to respond to this, yes, i'm looking to buy shares
1581025;1481418838;a111;Logged on 2016-08-27 19:04 mod6: <+mats> if there are any folks still looking to exit their s.nsa holdings, i would like to discuss buying your shares <+asciilifeform> mats: i would buy yours if i had in what to put. << looks like he's trying to buy, not sell.
1581026;1481418873;asciilifeform;mats: pretty lulzy in light of today's kakobrekla 'i know the only shareholder and he is remorseful'
1581027;1481418913;asciilifeform;or nm that was jurov.
1581028;1481418936;mats;i was remorseful, things change
1581029;1481418936;asciilifeform;at any rate, talk to the old trotskyists, mats , they might help.
1581030;1481419081;mats;i am also following along, and i want to be clear about my position, which i think is well represented above
1581031;1481419191;asciilifeform;aite
1581032;1481420174;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/74D4AC19C4E79E3CAF457C99A5E725A7836EB4099135BF81457A5DDA893179E3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1675...3659 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '64.22.71.30 (ssh-rsa key from 64.22.71.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (li15-30.members.linode.com. US GA)
1581033;1481420174;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D1087DF0A5DDCE21EFF681563472A2C606FF9C9A01D2A656724E20C13F485D6C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2463...2193 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '59.148.184.66 (ssh-rsa key from 59.148.184.66 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (059148184066.ctinets.com. HK)
1581034;1481420174;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/05359B128EBCBC10BA000E4A2BD2F59C247D769C17ED1C6AFBE8C9F60FDCAEE0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1731...5117 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.104.7 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.104.7 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US PA)
1581035;1481424552;mircea_popescu;!!up deadweasel
1581036;1481424552;deedbot;deadweasel voiced for 30 minutes.
1581037;1481424800;mircea_popescu;jurov dunno if you care but your  blog doesn't send pingbacks.
1581038;1481424822;BingoBoingo;!!v 785435910CA7EC32EEE21A8F3C833161EFFB470680AD6404F7D8887AEB2C2B50
1581039;1481424822;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated apocalyptic.
1581040;1481424838;BingoBoingo;!!v F60CB15909F40F16CB084CB0632A508410DADCF575E5FB76F369126056814F92
1581041;1481424839;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated kakobrekla.
1581042;1481424893;BingoBoingo;!!v 9AF207EF58FE2630BCBC155CA77EF3306B4329FF7FBC45B1EC08B9BE6D577F14
1581043;1481424894;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated DanyAlos.
1581044;1481424913;mircea_popescu;who the fuck was danyalos
1581045;1481424937;BingoBoingo;Some newcomer, doing housecleaning
1581046;1481424993;BingoBoingo;!!v 3E54D44328397371437B44E68B7B4936FC10AC69061D96725262C063ED5195A5
1581047;1481424994;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated episking-.
1581048;1481425006;mircea_popescu;aha.
1581049;1481425056;shinohai;episking~ i remember from #bitcoin-otc
1581050;1481425067;BingoBoingo;!!v 695A5FACE262F0D6222592C4A6D2F75DB9A8C6FA23945B2ABD0F1A837CD694E0
1581051;1481425067;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated moiety.
1581052;1481425090;mircea_popescu;yeah he used to try and trade btc/fiat ; but dubious rates.
1581053;1481425176;BingoBoingo;!!v 81B7466CB36D769A687D45D6F481222A6262C7EB0D4686833762E8B11CC395F2
1581054;1481425176;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated _FeltPen.
1581055;1481425206;mircea_popescu;pity nothing came of moiety chick. she was kinda lively
1581056;1481425211;asciilifeform;aha!
1581057;1481425294;BingoBoingo;!!v A638991AD1F7018ACF469E2CF34E20C8CB96472E8CD62610E5BD0FE054C41A73
1581058;1481425294;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated shinohai 3 << Regular Qntra Contributor and TRB-ist
1581059;1481425315;shinohai;O.o
1581060;1481425317;shinohai;ty
1581061;1481425321;shinohai;!!v 0EF09BD2E377482401B1B38B0EEA2CA1A1F87C694063112BF046A433409286D3
1581062;1481425321;deedbot;shinohai unrated MagnusFox.
1581063;1481425337;*;shinohai thought why not sweep wot too
1581064;1481425351;mircea_popescu;in similar news, walking yest thgrough town a buncha girlies hit on me, where i'm from, where's the chicks from, etc. they were athletes, like 16yos, playing in the natl basketball competition, semifinals today. so i told them ima show up. which i did.
1581065;1481425379;mircea_popescu;which utterly threw their game off, they got all stiff and nervous and kept missing passes and shots and the whole kaboodle, ended up trashed 70-55 by a clearly worse team.
1581066;1481425385;*;mircea_popescu regrets.
1581067;1481425400;BingoBoingo;!!v B7C64C99CBA811DE2DA1D66D68B8BD79F916A962C54FB9C2938B54F23CA0F874
1581068;1481425401;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of mike_c from 3 to 1 << Greater of Things, Absent with leave
1581069;1481425443;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Is it because you brought other girls to their game?
1581070;1481425480;mircea_popescu;or because i was the only dude over 30 there that didn't look like advanced case of brain parasitosis.
1581071;1481425502;mircea_popescu;or because confronted with their afore-unknown womanly power actually working irl they totally lost their shit
1581072;1481425506;mircea_popescu;or for any other reasons.
1581073;1481425517;BingoBoingo;AHA
1581074;1481425560;mircea_popescu;in any case, the place is called cenard (centro nacional por alto rendimiento deportivo). they kinda suck at the stated goal.
1581075;1481425582;shinohai;!!v 0168FFF65F7FBF241F098CBB7E3666CE6FA1F9F52304473C9331289E16D421E1
1581076;1481425600;BingoBoingo;!!V 141D41F3406E3B78700E504447DD070B76A5ED9F7C4C11FD280FBED6C57DAF0C
1581077;1481425600;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of ben_vulpes from 3 to 5 << Foundation co-chair with mod6, Class of 2013 Represent!
1581078;1481425716;BingoBoingo;!!v 2C750E7FCFE5E99B1607507FD4FFA9E0E806FCA968A188EBFD47CEBE336E8216
1581079;1481425716;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated btcdrak.
1581080;1481425740;shinohai;returned  22:08 	deedbot	shinohai updated rating of trinque from 3 to 3 << deedbot, lisp, trb
1581081;1481425742;*;BingoBoingo done with noise for now, may noise again soon.
1581082;1481426119;shinohai;!!v A555986F03406946E3AD7491BA607DBECB0EB39CCE692FBB25327343BBE82782
1581083;1481426119;deedbot;shinohai updated rating of mod6 from 2 to 3 << trb V http://thebitcoin.foundation
1581084;1481426134;*;shinohai is done for now too
1581085;1481426414;BingoBoingo;!!up deadweasel
1581086;1481426415;deedbot;deadweasel voiced for 30 minutes.
1581087;1481426645;BingoBoingo;Pest Control Wisdom http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5903
1581088;1481427008;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: funnily enough, 'my' cats have also begun to fight over the food.
1581089;1481427021;mircea_popescu;btw phf / anyone doing logwork : diana_coman did some stuff back in 2014 http://www.ossasepia.com/2014/07/17/get-one-just-like-bitcoin-people/
1581090;1481427039;asciilifeform;(... or is it the territory? giving'em 2 bowls, spaced two metres apart, did 0)
1581091;1481427050;mircea_popescu;prolly the time of year.
1581092;1481427051;BingoBoingo;It's the cold
1581093;1481427066;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: surprisingly -- or perhaps not -- they don't want 'in'
1581094;1481427083;asciilifeform;i suppose evil giants are more frightening than cold, to the well-insulated beast
1581095;1481427129;BingoBoingo;Possible
1581096;1481427460;*;BingoBoingo was engaged in hobby activity trimming undead conifers to customer specifications, and non hobbyists wondered why I would want to play with sawzall when there was drudgework and gossip they wanted my help with.
1581097;1481427477;BingoBoingo;http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/student-at-micds-says-the-school-has-been-unwelcoming-to/article_9d24f1e2-cf0e-5508-8dce-5de53d87f527.html
1581098;1481427500;BingoBoingo;"One of the students wrote: “Every day I pass a different student wearing a ‘Black Lives Matter’ shirt and that goes unacknowledged, but the moment I attempt to voice my opinion it is abruptly shut down by the left sided environment that our school has overwhelmingly supported this school year.” Another student wrote: “I got called a racist, misogynistic pig.”"
1581099;1481427639;ben_vulpes;]bwahahaa pfhfhfahaha marginalized white kids
1581100;1481427662;BingoBoingo;STFU, White can be proud too!
1581101;1481427727;BingoBoingo;The real white supremacists are the people who complain that they are disadvantaged because not white.
1581102;1481427796;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ACDB32FB4F95A910FB09001CAB31B67086FDE81B2ED884CD0D60A41EE67CB49A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1523...2153 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.222.106.8 (ssh-rsa key from 201.222.106.8 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (leased-line-ptoq-adsl-201.222.106.8.cotas.com.bo. BO B)
1581103;1481428054;ben_vulpes;ah i find the turning of their own language on the libtards endlessly amusing
1581104;1481428068;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581026 << why is it that every schmuck left crying at the gates takes refuge in this delusional knowledge of things anyway.
1581105;1481428068;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 01:14 asciilifeform: mats: pretty lulzy in light of today's kakobrekla 'i know the only shareholder and he is remorseful'
1581106;1481428122;mircea_popescu;i wish for once to meet a bum drunk who's not all about how he knows how facebook/cold fusion/lobbying for blabla works.
1581107;1481428847;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/74D4AC19C4E79E3CAF457C99A5E725A7836EB4099135BF81457A5DDA893179E3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1387...0119 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '64.22.71.30 (ssh-rsa key from 64.22.71.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (li15-30.members.linode.com. US GA)
1581108;1481428847;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D1087DF0A5DDCE21EFF681563472A2C606FF9C9A01D2A656724E20C13F485D6C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1415...6477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '59.148.184.66 (ssh-rsa key from 59.148.184.66 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (059148184066.ctinets.com. HK)
1581109;1481428847;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/05359B128EBCBC10BA000E4A2BD2F59C247D769C17ED1C6AFBE8C9F60FDCAEE0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1582...6379 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.104.7 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.104.7 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US PA)
1581110;1481429807;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-as-seen-by-mircescu-one-year-later/ << Trilema - Eulora as seen by Mircescu, one year later.
1581111;1481432418;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/lower-korea-makes-our-democracy-weird-again/ << Qntra - Lower Korea Makes "Our Democracy" Weird Again
1581112;1481435011;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: impeached ??
1581113;1481435050;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty fxd
1581114;1481435323;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there were 2
1581115;1481435338;asciilifeform;'president was impeached'
1581116;1481435362;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: scan results: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P5jFW/
1581117;1481435406;ben_vulpes;do the various weird telnet responses imply an encoding nightmare i have to figure out and fix on my machine?
1581118;1481435466;asciilifeform;nfi
1581119;1481435476;asciilifeform;never seen any such thing prior.
1581120;1481435515;asciilifeform;btw those various 'wtf is that' shitftp servers ? many are exploitable.
1581121;1481435528;asciilifeform;if only we had some use for these...
1581122;1481435570;asciilifeform; 0 s:/C=US/ST=Ohio/L=Westerville/O=Leader Technologies Inc/CN=www.leaderphone.com << lel
1581123;1481435604;asciilifeform;ftp: 220 NotARealServer 0.0.0.1 - Its just here becuase we watch it like a hawk << also lul
1581124;1481435658;asciilifeform;probably there is more, lulzier, but i'll bbl.
1581125;1481435693;ben_vulpes;how'd you pull that gem out so quickly?
1581126;1481436192;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty fxd
1581127;1481436713;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: with hands!
1581128;1481436726;asciilifeform;https://www.ebay.com/itm/252472784934  << poor man's mig.
1581129;1481437420;davout;master delusionist's mig
1581130;1481437753;asciilifeform;true master needs no junkyard artifact
1581131;1481437761;asciilifeform;can mig in own mind.
1581132;1481448322;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-442823.txt
1581133;1481461315;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ACDB32FB4F95A910FB09001CAB31B67086FDE81B2ED884CD0D60A41EE67CB49A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1599...6999 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.222.106.8 (ssh-rsa key from 201.222.106.8 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (leased-line-ptoq-adsl-201.222.106.8.cotas.com.bo. BO B)
1581134;1481462365;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2C24B5DEB41DB3A5A7BF180833B9FA2DF23C78F887B4CB52F57F662DD5632F8D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1715...0197 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.226.8.108 (ssh-rsa key from 213.226.8.108 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (brico-rus1.mtel.net. BG)
1581135;1481462380;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the part where the hawk watcher misspelled because is!
1581136;1481467652;mircea_popescu;http://www.venturejapan.com/fast-track-sales-japan-1.htm << dat cwazy shit. 100% dedicated to esablish "we IS!", maybe at some point gets around to "we do"
1581137;1481467671;adlai;congratulations on sellout, mircea_popescu & asciilifeform ! although requiring wholesale minimum of half the stock seems kinda 'asking for it'
1581138;1481467704;mircea_popescu;the who what ?
1581139;1481467711;shinohai;!~bash 2
1581140;1481467712;jhvh1;Last 2 lines bashed and pending publication
1581141;1481467723;adlai;the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575434
1581142;1481467723;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 05:55 mircea_popescu: aaaand... we're sold out on the 1st batch o.O
1581143;1481467791;mircea_popescu;looky : it's rare that your conclusions are baffling because i'm not aware what ~i~ said. it's generally the case that i'm not aware what nutty assumptions you baked into it. so, what ?
1581144;1481467843;adlai;'congratulations'
1581145;1481467847;mircea_popescu;cheers!
1581146;1481469662;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59tKpTFlaME << pretty sure that's illegal by now
1581147;1481469666;mircea_popescu;ALONG WITH EVERYTHING ELSE!
1581148;1481469703;asciilifeform;'we'll murder'em all, amidst laughter and merriment! except for a few we'll take home to EXPERIMENT!!111'
1581149;1481470047;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F24AA9CF11A01F8E3F25C060D49840FB4E0D7D78FF146A3024B3BFEE92EC85BB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1540...7149 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.41.78.163 (ssh-rsa key from 213.41.78.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (radius-front2.fr.colt.net. GB)
1581150;1481470047;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2C24B5DEB41DB3A5A7BF180833B9FA2DF23C78F887B4CB52F57F662DD5632F8D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1536...4809 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.226.8.108 (ssh-rsa key from 213.226.8.108 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (brico-rus1.mtel.net. BG)
1581151;1481470281;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3aCuKBWE3A << in other news, nick cave ain't even terrible.
1581152;1481472058;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/this-nick-cave-thing-isnt-even-horrible/ << Trilema - This Nick Cave thing isn't even horrible.
1581153;1481473088;mircea_popescu;in other news, today i learned a chinese! it goes like so : 和我一起，那是你的婊子掴你进监狱，并与所有的民族疯人院
1581154;1481474237;shinohai;!~translate en to zh-CN Fuckgoats
1581155;1481474238;jhvh1;shinohai: Fuckgoats
1581156;1481474255;mircea_popescu; !~translate en to zh-CN "FUCK GOATS"
1581157;1481474259;mircea_popescu;!~translate en to zh-CN "FUCK GOATS"
1581158;1481474260;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: FUCK山羊
1581159;1481474266;shinohai;well
1581160;1481474266;mircea_popescu;ahaha gimme a break
1581161;1481474289;mircea_popescu;!~translate en to zh-CN "VIGOROUS COPULATION GOATS"
1581162;1481474290;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 高原复制山羊
1581163;1481474293;mircea_popescu;^
1581164;1481474297;shinohai;top kek
1581165;1481474314;shinohai;!~translate en to zh-CN "rape goats"
1581166;1481474315;jhvh1;shinohai: 强奸山羊
1581167;1481474319;shinohai;:D
1581168;1481474325;mircea_popescu;rape is not the answer!
1581169;1481474372;mircea_popescu;!~translate en to zh-CN "plateau copy goat"
1581170;1481474373;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 高原复制山羊
1581171;1481474401;mircea_popescu;!~javascript.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊")
1581172;1481474401;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Error: "javascript.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊")" is not a valid command.
1581173;1481474407;mircea_popescu;oic.
1581174;1481474449;shinohai;eval in js is bad mkay
1581175;1481474465;mircea_popescu;!~exec(c.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊"))
1581176;1481474466;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Error: "exec(c.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊"))" is not a valid command.
1581177;1481478708;adlai;;;later tell mod6 may I please be granted admission to your trb dev channel(s)?
1581178;1481478720;adlai;!~later tell mod6 may I please be granted admission to your trb dev channel(s)?
1581179;1481478720;jhvh1;adlai: The operation succeeded.
1581180;1481478859;adlai;asciilifeform: any forecast of when batch two will assemble & ship?
1581181;1481478869;asciilifeform;adlai: if all as planned, end of week
1581182;1481478918;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: well the cyrpto-pocalypse is happening. reading several arguments against the "paper-wallet" and literally saw "Javascript has strong cryptographic functions. Generate keys in your web browser!"
1581183;1481478932;asciilifeform;lolwut
1581184;1481479014;thestringpuller;Luke-jr was trying to warn people similarly to you as to "paper wallet" crap-olade. And "the self proclaimed experts" stated, " He doesn't believe that any security sensitive activity should happen in a web browser, disregarding the fact that today's JavaScript actually has excellent cryptographic bonafides -- like a random number generator that's generally stronger than whatever the host operating system can offer."
1581185;1481479103;asciilifeform;what part of this crapola is new or interesting, thestringpuller ?
1581186;1481479121;adlai;this sounds like a criticism of JS-generated keys, rather than a criticism of "private key never existed on an internet-connected computer, and no backup is saved other than a piece of paper"
1581187;1481479190;thestringpuller;While asciilifeform is diligently building fuckgoats the lamestream media will inevitably "white wash javascript" crypto. Above is evidnce of it happening in the making. Maybe not suprising to you. But surprising to me to see it more rampantly.
1581188;1481479254;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: keybase etc were going strong year+ ago, snore.
1581189;1481479377;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: I don't think keybase allows you to generate keys anymore...you have to supply them...
1581190;1481479393;thestringpuller;or atleast I have yet to encounter a keybase user in the wild who has done so...
1581191;1481479421;shinohai;nah they still ask you to "paste copy of privkey in browser to enact enhanced features*
1581192;1481479535;Framedragger;(but for clarity, keybase works perfectly well without being supplied with privkey, no?) ("i'm just sayin'" - not defending keybase.)
1581193;1481479591;davout;shinohai: you're such a racist and elitist pig. cryptography should be easy and downloadable from the appstore
1581194;1481479702;thestringpuller;look i thought jgarzik's tweet about gpg dying was just an outlier of PRB nonsense but it's a plague now I've witnessed for myself, that is all
1581195;1481479866;Framedragger;indeed, attack is stronger than initially pictured. "sane" "developers" actually promote js crypto, etc.; i guess that just means that one has to be even more vigilant (and proactively declare those to be insane).. :)
1581196;1481479916;asciilifeform;Framedragger: who, in particular ?
1581197;1481479918;asciilifeform;let's hear names.
1581198;1481479953;Framedragger;well.. that's one of the problems. i don't really keep names in my mind, it's not worth the space. sorry if i implied that i'd be able to point at anything interesting
1581199;1481479974;shinohai;(keybase allows signing of zcash scam addys)
1581200;1481479978;Framedragger;fwiw i still like moxie, but it's sad that he's doing the "i don't use gpg anymore" thing, too
1581201;1481480001;Framedragger;shinohai: why should it selectively disallow to sign whatever you wanted?
1581202;1481480041;shinohai;well sure u dont have to use it
1581203;1481480091;Framedragger;i suppose so, but his tone was more like "gpg UI is shit => gpg is shit => eh fuck gpg, i'll just use signal/otr etc [and i encourage others to do the same]"
1581204;1481480139;Framedragger;which is, you know, how you end up in a pool, surrounded by sharks and tigers :p / :(
1581205;1481480176;Framedragger;(but that's different from a developer endorsing js crypto, of course)
1581206;1481481043;phf;goes back to our conversation about "why you no respect ptacek". since their opinions are not hinged on any deliberately lived experience, they change them according to fashions. if you happen to be fashion aligned you'll think that they are geniuses, but as soon as you start doing your own thing, you realize just how superficial they are
1581207;1481481070;asciilifeform;^
1581208;1481481147;adlai;out of curiosity, why are orders encrypted to mircea_popescu , when i'd assume (silly me, all these assumptions!) that asciilifeform is the one actually doing the assembly + shipping?
1581209;1481481239;asciilifeform;no particularly good reason.
1581210;1481481266;asciilifeform;but on other hand, i ~like~ not having to know where crate is doing until the very hour.
1581211;1481481271;asciilifeform;*going
1581212;1481481296;adlai;ok so i'll leave out the --encrypt-to stan
1581213;1481481316;asciilifeform;get into the habit of encrypting to the fella to whom you were asked to encrypt.
1581214;1481481324;asciilifeform;and not also to x,y,and z.
1581215;1481481343;*;adlai has this nasty habit of doing things for no particularly good reason. working on culling it.
1581216;1481481356;asciilifeform;it is a very bad habit and has killed quite a few folx
1581217;1481481360;asciilifeform;'wut dus this button do'
1581218;1481481498;adlai;ugh, sadly internet collections of quotes from "The Phantom Tollbooth" lack the one about valid reasons... left as exercise to reader
1581219;1481481599;asciilifeform;phf, trinque, et al : is it yet possible to throw a vpatch into deedbot ?
1581220;1481481618;asciilifeform;i would like to deed FUCKGOATS
1581221;1481481626;asciilifeform;WITHOUT THE IDIOT MUTILATION of clearsign
1581222;1481481634;asciilifeform;omfgh is this still unsolved problem.
1581223;1481481640;*;adlai wonders whether the delay of signing the order info is worth the gain in trust
1581224;1481481680;adlai;sufficiently resourceful prankster might enrich S.NSA at customers' expence by giving them different amounts
1581225;1481481683;asciilifeform;adlai: how about whether delay in tying your shoes is worth the gain in not tripping over own laces ?
1581226;1481481694;asciilifeform;adlai: what did your mother say to you when you were small and asked this ?
1581227;1481481702;asciilifeform;because i am now becoming quite certain that you did ask
1581228;1481481736;phf;asciilifeform: i think the solution that we arrived at is that you just paste the two pastebot urls clear and sig and i pick them up. so if you want to deedbot them, just do that, and you can assume that it'll end up in btcbase
1581229;1481481756;asciilifeform;aite.
1581230;1481481767;asciilifeform;i'd like to deedbot it though.
1581231;1481481777;asciilifeform;y'know, with block time & all.
1581232;1481481824;adlai;asciilifeform: i realize there is not an incentive to perform such mischief. this is just me being talkative.
1581233;1481481835;phf;asciilifeform: i misunderstand the question then
1581234;1481481854;phf;i guess deedbot does something it shouldn't do..
1581235;1481481908;asciilifeform;phf: i have: 1) fg-genesis.vdiff  2) fg-genesis.vdiff.asciilifeform.sig
1581236;1481481915;asciilifeform;i want : these ^ deedbotted.
1581237;1481481918;asciilifeform;AS THEY ARE
1581238;1481481919;asciilifeform;doable ?
1581239;1481481944;asciilifeform;my current understanding is 'no, and never'
1581240;1481481998;asciilifeform;btw for folx who are thick as a brick i will point out, that i SPECIFICALLY DO NOT WANT vdiff's '---' turned by idiot koch liquishit into '- ---'
1581241;1481482007;phf;huh, i didn't know that. i thought deedbot takes binary blobs sort of deal
1581242;1481482021;asciilifeform;does it ?
1581243;1481482023;adlai;raudus jactum est!
1581244;1481482025;asciilifeform;i thought it only ate clearsigns.
1581245;1481482091;phf;trinque wants me to deedbot logs, and if it only takes clearsigns, that would be kind of tricky.
1581246;1481482102;asciilifeform;ok what's the syntax then
1581247;1481482109;asciilifeform;where do i insert (1) and (2).
1581248;1481482168;phf;trinque: ^
1581249;1481482183;asciilifeform;and lol, did i just find another bug in gnudiff.
1581250;1481482187;asciilifeform;holy shit.
1581251;1481482409;asciilifeform;scratch, it is a bug in VDIFF
1581252;1481482426;asciilifeform;so i had two base64's png files in there,
1581253;1481482449;asciilifeform;and apparently '+++' is a valid sequence inside these.
1581254;1481482468;asciilifeform;it occurred.
1581255;1481482474;asciilifeform;MOTHERFUCKING in-band.
1581256;1481482502;asciilifeform;oh and yes, it occurred as FIRST CHAR IN LINE
1581257;1481482520;asciilifeform;so of course vdiff's awk cmd ate it and shat out 'false'.
1581258;1481482533;asciilifeform;right into the output stream.
1581259;1481482555;adlai;at which point the planet gains angular momentum, due to murphy spinning slower in his grave
1581260;1481482647;asciilifeform;ideas ?
1581261;1481482717;adlai;i don't think "+++ " can be a valid (subseq line 0 4)
1581262;1481482730;adlai;although i may be understanding the spec incorrectly
1581263;1481482758;asciilifeform;adlai: the space is the separator
1581264;1481482780;adlai;it could help to see the exact lines that caused this
1581265;1481482838;adlai;re:space, i realize the space is the separator in the patch syntax; the awk script is not looking for it though
1581266;1481482880;asciilifeform;adlai: it's actually a line of binhexolade that begins with '++'
1581267;1481482890;asciilifeform;gnudiff turns that into a '+++....'
1581268;1481482900;asciilifeform;and vdiff sees it and emits the barf.
1581269;1481482976;asciilifeform;retardation sandwich.
1581270;1481483027;asciilifeform;it is more or less literally a godelization of vdiff.
1581271;1481483107;adlai;the per-file header produced by gnudiff should contain two spaces, whereas b64 data should contain none
1581272;1481483107;asciilifeform;i have nfi right now what to do with this nonsense.
1581273;1481483129;asciilifeform;adlai: spaces where ?
1581274;1481483164;adlai;in the lines that you do want that awk script to match
1581275;1481483168;asciilifeform;and what prevents some idiocy in the future from also 'containing two spaces' ?
1581276;1481483184;asciilifeform;do you understand, adlai , that i am NOT interested in beginning long career of idiot special case patches to vdiff ?
1581277;1481483188;asciilifeform;where it gets longer and longer ?
1581278;1481483210;asciilifeform;and gets nailed same way every time ?
1581279;1481483295;adlai;of course, although the current vdiff is a mishmash of three abstractions, two of which have their own DSLs (bash & awk), so some amount of abstraction leak is inevitable
1581280;1481483341;asciilifeform;and before anyone asks, the png's are not lolcats, they are schematics
1581281;1481483440;asciilifeform;and the pld verilog code in the genesis is WORTHLESS without the schematics
1581282;1481483487;asciilifeform;so right now i'm looking at the options:
1581283;1481483492;asciilifeform;a) deedbot hashes of binary garbage -- this is not vtronic!
1581284;1481483522;asciilifeform;b) release vtronic pld source only -- and deedbot apparently doesn't eat vpatches yet -- AND then would have no schematics
1581285;1481483532;asciilifeform;c) ???
1581286;1481483566;adlai;d) b64(gzip), hope that bug doesn't recur
1581287;1481483587;adlai;obviously this is not a replacement for a proper fix to vdiff itself
1581288;1481483601;asciilifeform;adlai: fuck that
1581289;1481483607;asciilifeform;you want 'hope', go to casino.
1581290;1481483609;mircea_popescu;!!up deadweasel
1581291;1481483609;deedbot;deadweasel voiced for 30 minutes.
1581292;1481483641;adlai;this 'hope' gets tested immediately. i'm only suggesting a quick fix here, still thinking about the proper one.
1581293;1481483661;asciilifeform;lel mircea_popescu shows up just when i was about to switch on my robotic autopopescu, to say 'stop trying to deedbot nonhumancomestibles!'
1581294;1481483678;phf;binary blobs remain an unsolved problem. the whole idea of binary (or base64) is contrary to some of the more philosophical aspects of vpatch you and mp like to discuss, so i don't know if base64 even solves it.
1581295;1481483680;mircea_popescu;i showed up cuz done fucking, dun mind me.
1581296;1481483685;asciilifeform;lol
1581297;1481483724;jurov;what about converting pics to ppm/pnm?
1581298;1481483734;asciilifeform;jurov: and have 10MB vpatch?!
1581299;1481483737;asciilifeform;no thx.
1581300;1481483783;asciilifeform;phf: fact is, the schematics are a) human readable b) essential to the device c) not ascii
1581301;1481483786;phf;what about providing schematics in a textual format of some sort? it being a graph some form of graphviz dot or whatever
1581302;1481483800;adlai;as i see it the problem is that a valid gnudiff output is a false positive for the awk script, this actually has nothing to do with b64 that just happens to have produced the first example of this output
1581303;1481483853;asciilifeform;phf: fact is, they are not born in that form, and can only be converted to it by hand, with the attendant errors and weeks of necessary double, triple, dodecuple check
1581304;1481483890;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581180 <<->> http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-november-2016-statement/#selection-459.89-459.120
1581305;1481483890;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 17:54 adlai: asciilifeform: any forecast of when batch two will assemble & ship?
1581306;1481483929;asciilifeform;adlai: this is a) correct and b) unsolvable in the general case afaik.
1581307;1481483932;phf;asciilifeform: to some extent it goes back to the that thread about thinking on the board, and the result of thinking
1581308;1481483935;mircea_popescu;lol javascript rng stronger jesus christ,.
1581309;1481483938;adlai;my proper fix to this would be writing vdiff in zero-dependency ANSI CL, and replacing the "long career of idiot special case patches" with a short career of specific kelvin-reducing patches
1581310;1481483960;asciilifeform;phf: if you want to suggest a solution that doesn't reduce to my a) or b) or any c) that delays shipment for month+, i'm all ears.
1581311;1481483982;asciilifeform;adlai: how does that fix the 'magic string' problem ?
1581312;1481483983;asciilifeform;tell me
1581313;1481483997;asciilifeform;what will your vdiff do when it sees a '+++ foo' ?
1581314;1481484000;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581191 << ffs. these people and their "features"...
1581315;1481484000;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:03 shinohai: nah they still ask you to "paste copy of privkey in browser to enact enhanced features*
1581316;1481484049;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581194 << "gpg dying" in usg speak is "tmsr is taking control of gpg" and no more.
1581317;1481484049;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:08 thestringpuller: look i thought jgarzik's tweet about gpg dying was just an outlier of PRB nonsense but it's a plague now I've witnessed for myself, that is all
1581318;1481484064;mircea_popescu;we appreciate the compliment ; they can go serenade all the dumb cunts that don't know better, as before.
1581319;1481484085;mircea_popescu;because yes - we are taking over rsa altogether, from the format down.
1581320;1481484087;phf;asciilifeform: i suggested one, i'm still suggesting it. philosophically correct solution would be to reduce graph to something that can be reasoned about as text. note that i'm not even sure if i'm prepared to advocate for that as the main way forward, but it's an option.
1581321;1481484104;mircea_popescu;i'm way behind here am i.
1581322;1481484143;asciilifeform;phf: understand that the schematic as represented in the png is what ended up as the board. whereas if i were to redraw it by hand, that is an additional PROMISE
1581323;1481484188;asciilifeform;of course there is also the massive xml turd that the closed-source CAD shat out !
1581324;1481484193;asciilifeform;would prefer THAT ?
1581325;1481484193;mircea_popescu;js crypto ffs. javascript can't even number.
1581326;1481484246;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581200 << "moxie" is not much of a name. /me would have never even seriously considered "moldbug" had intel not identified pw:rn to go with it.
1581327;1481484246;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:12 Framedragger: fwiw i still like moxie, but it's sad that he's doing the "i don't use gpg anymore" thing, too
1581328;1481484293;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: mr mold blew own cover years ago when he linked to an academic paper he had written as undergrad
1581329;1481484319;asciilifeform;it was lulzy, i pointed it out publicly, and he for a while carried on the pretense of 'uh, not me...'
1581330;1481484327;mircea_popescu;afaik outside of my referencing him (and for that matter tlp) by name, it "wasn't know" at least "not publicly" etc. which is disjunct from "not knowable" ofcoars.
1581331;1481484328;adlai;asciilifeform: hypothetical program gets two files as input, old version and new version. proceeds to make diff itself, rather than relying on gnudiff; doesn't need to use awk matching since it's not massaging grudiff output but rather producing the vpatch directly itself, thus bypassing this magic string. am i missing something?
1581332;1481484341;mircea_popescu;but yes, plenty of people discretely knew.
1581333;1481484383;asciilifeform;adlai: why would i want your 1,000+ line difftron ?
1581334;1481484389;asciilifeform;instead of my ONE
1581335;1481484396;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581208 << yes, silly you. stop trying to infofish or i'll negrate you, and permanently this time.
1581336;1481484396;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:32 adlai: out of curiosity, why are orders encrypted to mircea_popescu , when i'd assume (silly me, all these assumptions!) that asciilifeform is the one actually doing the assembly + shipping?
1581337;1481484427;mircea_popescu;minding own business, as reflected in, for eg, having actually come up with something useful at some point, and also in the negative in, eg, not asking me to do your homework out of published data, is key.
1581338;1481484447;mircea_popescu;being an obnoxious turd, no matter how disguised, ain't gonna purchase you jack shit. no matter what you delude yourself into thinking it purchased.
1581339;1481484486;adlai;i do hope that identifying my assumptions as such as improvement upon leaving them implicit.
1581340;1481484511;mircea_popescu;this "concerned public" nubbinstardation didn't work for the original nubbins. you think you're special or some shit ?
1581341;1481484548;asciilifeform;eh, let's not beat the d00d to a pulp, he just ordered a unit
1581342;1481484572;mircea_popescu;yes, but what the fuck is it his business that old whore of hillary is doing my secretarial work ?
1581343;1481484581;asciilifeform;i have nfi why he'd care fwiw.
1581344;1481484602;shinohai;!!rate BingoBoingo 3 "Qntra: Herald of The Most Serene Republic"
1581345;1481484603;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/5fx1y/?raw=true
1581346;1481484605;adlai;my intent was not nubbins's "you guys are operating badly", but rather "you guys are operating differently from how i expected, could you please educate me as to why my assumption is incorrect?"
1581347;1481484618;mircea_popescu;you don't operate jack shit, what expected ?
1581348;1481484639;mircea_popescu;your assumption is mistaken in your having one in the first place.
1581349;1481484645;phf;asciilifeform: perhaps binary blobs don't belong ~in~ vpatch in general for philosophical and mechanical reasons. my proposed solution 2 would be to extend vpatch tool to tack one base64 binary blobs after the fact. you can grep for "appears to be binary" or whatever it is and feed those separately to uuencode/decode.
1581350;1481484688;shinohai;!!v 2B3E25C636C5902702418816EEA2C627A195A8F17B08B44572CE4F4231AAEFB1
1581351;1481484688;deedbot;shinohai updated rating of BingoBoingo from 2 to 3 << "Qntra: Herald of The Most Serene Republic"
1581352;1481484699;asciilifeform;phf: i could easily write proggy that eats a binturd and produces a vdiff-harmless shell script that, when executed, disgorges same. but the IDEA, yes, bothers me
1581353;1481484700;adlai;mircea_popescu: i'm trying to replace the mistaken assumptions, stemming from operating hypothetical services within my own imagination.
1581354;1481484705;asciilifeform;phf: it is a sinful thing to do
1581355;1481484714;asciilifeform;phf: however, omitting the schems from the genesis is also sinful.
1581356;1481484726;asciilifeform;i'ma ask mircea_popescu to make the cut.
1581357;1481484750;mircea_popescu;just drop the whole imagination thing, it ain't useful. it just provides a way for you to waste your energy. go do things, if you ask then "hey, i am now opening shop for adlai's electronic dildos, but i don't intend to do X like nsa did, but this other way, anyone see a problem?" you'll get an answer and proceed from there.
1581358;1481484829;adlai;ok. sorry for getting you riled up again.
1581359;1481484836;asciilifeform;phf: mutilating and complicating vdiff or v is the very last thing i'm interested in.
1581360;1481484840;asciilifeform;it is the worst possible answer.
1581361;1481484860;asciilifeform;and i did promise to eschew non-7bitclean vpatches !
1581362;1481484862;asciilifeform;and so did phf !!
1581363;1481484875;phf;asciilifeform: uuencode/uudecode
1581364;1481484887;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581221 << when i had to put in, eg, gpg tarball i apparently used base64 of it.
1581365;1481484887;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:40 asciilifeform: WITHOUT THE IDIOT MUTILATION of clearsign
1581366;1481484889;asciilifeform;not interested in special cases in vdiff or v.
1581367;1481484909;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you didn't v igt
1581368;1481484911;asciilifeform;*it
1581369;1481484916;asciilifeform;problem happens when v.
1581370;1481484919;mircea_popescu;did not. just deedbot.
1581371;1481484927;asciilifeform;correct
1581372;1481484941;asciilifeform;but fg-genesis is an item i produced out of thin aether. it is v material.
1581373;1481484941;adlai;re: "go do things", another thing i've been doing is studying towards http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-19#1556804. my understanding thus far is that it is firmly within "not possible to put into Bitcoin" territory, but still potentially interesting; and i am not yet confident enough in my understanding to try explaining to others; but i should be in a ~month.
1581374;1481484941;a111;Logged on 2016-10-19 18:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-19#1556766 << state its math part sometime.
1581375;1481484994;adlai;(this is re: the "MimbleWimble" not-yet-altcoin)
1581376;1481485005;mircea_popescu;adlai your attempts to state "the moon math" for $item resulted in knowledge that... "not possible to put into bitcoin" ? this is mixnonsense wtf. math is math.
1581377;1481485006;asciilifeform;adlai: do me personal favour , and drink a long cup of tea, i am trying to deal with actual problem here, it needs solution, from able hands
1581378;1481485050;phf;asciilifeform: i've got another one :)
1581379;1481485059;asciilifeform;phf: do say!
1581380;1481485111;asciilifeform;and how do the eulora folks solve this..?
1581381;1481485114;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581240 << the never part there is iffy. i ~think~ that once we finally get tmsr-rsa, we will NOT be doing that idiocy.
1581382;1481485114;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:46 asciilifeform: btw for folx who are thick as a brick i will point out, that i SPECIFICALLY DO NOT WANT vdiff's '---' turned by idiot koch liquishit into '- ---'
1581383;1481485114;asciilifeform;do they even v ?
1581384;1481485132;mircea_popescu;would you agree the correct move here is to actually specify clearsign format for tmsr-rsa ?
1581385;1481485169;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, in 'p' i have a 'next N bytes are payload' marker.
1581386;1481485172;mircea_popescu;^
1581387;1481485176;asciilifeform;no magic chars, ffs
1581388;1481485176;mircea_popescu;exactly what i had in mind.
1581389;1481485183;mircea_popescu;should have header and offsets. fixed size item.
1581390;1481485193;phf;so vpatches all have preludes, by virtue of how diff/patch works (that's how you can just cat mail.mbox > patch). i was thinking of using that prelude for readme, but you can put base64 binary files there, and verbally communicate additional required steps. it's ugly, but it's without mutilating core concept. prelude is reveserved for whatever ugly special case hacks, etc.
1581391;1481485199;asciilifeform;btw P is rolling soon after FG crates ship.
1581392;1481485217;asciilifeform;phf: no promisetronics plox
1581393;1481485222;asciilifeform;verbally communicate ffs
1581394;1481485224;asciilifeform;pfff.
1581395;1481485234;mircea_popescu;phf these are palleative solutions, you understand i'm sure. the fundamental problem here is that clearisgn is a "magic char" driven thing like nonsense "nullterm" string constructions
1581396;1481485261;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and wait till you get in the log to the OTHER inbandism idiocy of the day
1581397;1481485263;mircea_popescu;this may even be ok if the magic chars weren't fucking DASHES ffs.
1581398;1481485279;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: next one involved + signs
1581399;1481485283;mircea_popescu;one tiny step under making them the letter "e"
1581400;1481485292;mircea_popescu;(hey, it's not THE most common english letter!)
1581401;1481485298;asciilifeform;if it's in 7bit ascii, it's equally sad
1581402;1481485302;asciilifeform;+, or -, .or 'e'
1581403;1481485305;phf;mircea_popescu: the whole thing is "magic char" driven though. in this particular case the failure is not just from clearsign, but from a combination of clearsign and vpatch own magic chars.
1581404;1481485306;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and if it's not it's not printable.
1581405;1481485311;asciilifeform;correct
1581406;1481485319;mircea_popescu;phf not so. the rsa part is NOT magic char driven.
1581407;1481485320;asciilifeform;escape chars are evil.
1581408;1481485326;asciilifeform;they WILL die.
1581409;1481485336;asciilifeform;i, with own two hands, will kill them.
1581410;1481485337;mircea_popescu;you don't "exponent multiply" the payload "up until you run into the number of the beast"
1581411;1481485349;phf;mircea_popescu: i mean vpatch's own --- +++
1581412;1481485373;mircea_popescu;yes, that.
1581413;1481485397;mircea_popescu;incidentally asciilifeform : as a palleative : could we actually just fucking edit koch-rsa so that "----" rather than "-" becomes a symbol and deploy this on deedbot ?
1581414;1481485420;mircea_popescu;so it DOESN'T do - - for ONE -, but only for five -----
1581415;1481485425;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in principle, but it will work exactly until next time binhex shits out a file with '----' insiden !
1581416;1481485432;asciilifeform;which is 100% legal binhexola
1581417;1481485439;asciilifeform;*inside
1581418;1481485452;mircea_popescu;in principle we should just make it the whole story, "----- BEGIN FUCKAGE -----"
1581419;1481485463;asciilifeform;until binhex emits THAT.
1581420;1481485471;mircea_popescu;yes. but fuck me sideways, how likely is this by now.
1581421;1481485483;asciilifeform;(how? someone will sign the log! and here it is, mircea_popescu wrote it!)
1581422;1481485487;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i'm just saying, cheap lye solution.
1581423;1481485490;asciilifeform;it is now 100% likely.
1581424;1481485494;asciilifeform;because right here it lives.
1581425;1481485494;mircea_popescu;I SPECIFICALLY WROTE fuckage!
1581426;1481485506;mircea_popescu;what, you think it just happened ? it didn't just happen.
1581427;1481485521;asciilifeform;well yes. any magic string can make the all-time-log undeedable.
1581428;1481485523;asciilifeform;which sucks.
1581429;1481485533;asciilifeform;(because there can never be a guarantee against said string occurring therin)
1581430;1481485535;asciilifeform;*therein
1581431;1481485546;mircea_popescu;no, we'll have phf indulge us, nuke specific magic string from log, replace it with something. LETS BUILD UNICODE!
1581432;1481485552;asciilifeform;aahahahahahahaha
1581433;1481485555;mircea_popescu;ikr?
1581434;1481485570;asciilifeform;multicode!
1581435;1481485576;*;asciilifeform warns up multivac
1581436;1481485577;mircea_popescu;phf trinque mod6 does this notion sound as idiotic to you as it does to him ?
1581437;1481485592;mircea_popescu;(i confess it does to me, has no value other than cheapness. but gotta see what peoples think too!)
1581438;1481485602;asciilifeform;'go to heaven by not swearing'
1581439;1481485632;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1581440;1481485661;mircea_popescu;so i'ma just wait here for you to p, and comment thar rather than try and spec a tmsr-rsa-clearsign ?
1581441;1481485692;asciilifeform;it'll be presented as experimental (skull'n'crossbones) genesis, and up for comment.
1581442;1481485696;jurov;MIME avoids this by generating unique magic strings as delimiters after the fact. but you don't want to, i guess.
1581443;1481485698;mircea_popescu;mkay.
1581444;1481485712;mircea_popescu;jurov no because then you're stuck with a reflexive system
1581445;1481485888;phf;i'm convinced that blobs shouldn't go into vpatches, this completely breaks the whole readability/communication aspect of it, while still remaining promisestronic: you have to take some additional step after pressing to get the final images.
1581446;1481485921;asciilifeform;phf: i can see this angle very well
1581447;1481485931;asciilifeform;phf: there is only 1 problem , it leaves me with a useless genesis.
1581448;1481485967;asciilifeform;this is a textbook altschullerian triz-contradiction.
1581449;1481485971;asciilifeform;and it has to be actually resolved.
1581450;1481485983;asciilifeform;instead of 'no you cannot have X + Y, pick one'
1581451;1481486054;mircea_popescu;phf suppose you make an ai expert system to beat us at go. this gives you two practical options : either include 10gb worth of binary flags preset ; or else have us beat it at go for 10 centuries before it gets to where it plays like a freshly fucked 19yo.
1581452;1481486060;mircea_popescu;what now of genesis blobs ?
1581453;1481486180;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally it always amuses me how fascinated the redditard/ycombinatard always seem to be with the "pick 2 of 3" sort of shits, to the point of aspiring to have one named after themselves / renaming ancient ones in anecdotal rephrasings to honor whatever particularly hipstery doofus. never once does it occur to them that the only thing this means is "the problem's misstated".
1581454;1481486199;asciilifeform;bbrregglah's triangle! fdhfzerrglah's triangle!
1581455;1481486200;asciilifeform;etc
1581456;1481486200;jurov;i think phf means that everything should be converted into text representation
1581457;1481486225;mircea_popescu;"text representation" doesn't have that hard a meaning in this context though. what's it mean ?
1581458;1481486226;phf;mircea_popescu: i get the problem, but you can always some up with a strict no-blob solution, whether or not it's practical. in this case include your entire training set, that, being go boards, can literally be represented as ascii x/o drawings
1581459;1481486227;jurov;i don't see what's the problem with having 8-10x more data
1581460;1481486247;jurov;mircea_popescu: i offered netpbm, that's well specified ascii image format
1581461;1481486249;mircea_popescu;jurov that'd depend on how much data, of course.
1581462;1481486251;asciilifeform;jurov: i could trivially convert it to a shell script that 1) vdiff will eat without incident and 2) produces the original png when run. but this is morally problematic.
1581463;1481486260;asciilifeform;because it hides the problem.
1581464;1481486282;mircea_popescu;phf yes but can we come up0 with a general no blob solution ?
1581465;1481486286;asciilifeform;whereas a 'have your patch be 10MB' is idiocy and i will not waste time considering it.
1581466;1481486291;asciilifeform;(jurov's pnm)
1581467;1481486313;jurov;there's also svg using data uri, where you can put all data on one line, thus avoiding +++ on line start problem
1581468;1481486332;mircea_popescu;yes but then what the fuck.
1581469;1481486333;asciilifeform;jurov: may as well take the cad proggy's turd then
1581470;1481486337;asciilifeform;it isn't human readable !
1581471;1481486337;mircea_popescu;^
1581472;1481486338;asciilifeform;at all!
1581473;1481486394;phf;mircea_popescu: no
1581474;1481486407;mircea_popescu;so then "it always can be done in particular" is no asnwer, is it ?
1581475;1481486420;mircea_popescu;the whole point we're trying to get out of is that adhocness
1581476;1481486578;asciilifeform;^
1581477;1481486599;phf;mircea_popescu: well, the way i got what you grokked from v when it originally came out, is that vpatches are literate, for things that you can reason ~and meaningfully amend~. "unicode on a chalkboard" thread is also relevant
1581478;1481486696;phf;you can't do anything with a binary blob, in which case vpatch serves exclusively as a dumb payload or a container
1581479;1481486720;asciilifeform;this is entirely true
1581480;1481486732;mircea_popescu;yes, they are.
1581481;1481486784;mircea_popescu;ie, the reason koch-gpg-clearsing worked ok for us for a long time is that while flawed as alf correctly (and repeatedly for a year now) points out, nevertheless its hole falls atop a hole of v, namely that it doesn't do "-----"
1581482;1481486816;phf;so my proposed "put everything into prelude" solution preserves the literacy angle, and uses prelude as a "annotation" section, i.e. space for verbiage, supporting material etc. this will work for free with things like btcbase. can also pack it into a tar file and sign ~that~, but breaks a lot of tools
1581483;1481486816;mircea_popescu;while xml is shit, it's not directly clear that the correct move here isn't, eg, to make a tmsr-cad format.
1581484;1481486899;asciilifeform;that'd entail a tmsr cad.
1581485;1481486905;asciilifeform;which is 1,000+ manyears.
1581486;1481486915;asciilifeform;(if you want it to WORK)
1581487;1481486939;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581254 << ahahah.
1581488;1481486939;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 18:54 asciilifeform: it occurred.
1581489;1481486975;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey it's not my fault you keep going around starting fires! oh what does this button do, oh what if we made own hardware, oh etc!
1581490;1481486990;mircea_popescu;first fuckgoats, then laundrygoats!
1581491;1481487002;asciilifeform;i will illustrate: yes, cad proggy can export netlist. but said netlist has no provisions for describing a) part valus (e.g., you get C10, and no place for '0.47uF') or the geometries of the physical chips (you get, e.g., IO1-15 but way to say 'that's pin 44 of a pqfp-44 plastic thinleadc carrier)
1581492;1481487007;asciilifeform;aaaha.
1581493;1481487016;asciilifeform;*values
1581494;1481487131;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581272 << wouldja dpaste the whole pile ?
1581495;1481487131;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 19:05 asciilifeform: i have nfi right now what to do with this nonsense.
1581496;1481487168;asciilifeform;for what would you want the sad pile ? the magic line is that 1 line
1581497;1481487184;asciilifeform;and i ain't signing this shit soup
1581498;1481487224;mircea_popescu;just as an artefact of the lifes and times.
1581499;1481487229;mircea_popescu;like that sad airplane in front of tm airport.
1581500;1481487230;asciilifeform;aite, 1s.
1581501;1481487273;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/oNvsO/?raw=true
1581502;1481487300;asciilifeform;and haha, there are TWO +++ lines !
1581503;1481487302;asciilifeform;not merely 1 !
1581504;1481487320;mircea_popescu;+++7F0QaZAgBgF3/7448/fmnc/DnT29zJipI3ZCWnifqyfJH6/nRzUt7979al5JtwrACPLNjDb5Pc  false <<< ahahaha epic!
1581505;1481487334;mircea_popescu;i was wtf is this extra shit on the side oh OH!
1581506;1481487343;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why aren't these schematics svg anyway btw ?
1581507;1481487351;asciilifeform;they simply aren't
1581508;1481487359;asciilifeform;take it up with the german schmucks
1581509;1481487378;mircea_popescu;so it spits out png ?
1581510;1481487392;asciilifeform;it does.
1581511;1481487403;asciilifeform;also dxf apparently, but i have not been able to get ~these~ to render anywhere!
1581512;1481487410;mircea_popescu;see, there's many problems here, and phf correctly identifies the general case in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581294 ; for eg : what if i want to scale ?
1581513;1481487410;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 19:14 phf: binary blobs remain an unsolved problem. the whole idea of binary (or base64) is contrary to some of the more philosophical aspects of vpatch you and mp like to discuss, so i don't know if base64 even solves it.
1581514;1481487432;asciilifeform;it all reduces to the fact that there is no cad but that of the heathens
1581515;1481487441;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform o try dxf to svg convert!
1581516;1481487443;asciilifeform;just as there are no tmsr chip fabs, etc
1581517;1481487447;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did, 0 result.
1581518;1481487449;asciilifeform;barf.
1581519;1481487452;mircea_popescu;gah
1581520;1481487459;mircea_popescu;that'd have been so cheap...
1581521;1481487475;mircea_popescu;can has dxf blob ?
1581522;1481487478;asciilifeform;cheap but then folks would have less incentive to use the turdware and That Would Be Wrong
1581523;1481487487;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sure,1s
1581524;1481487501;asciilifeform;there'd be 2 of them, i'll make 1 for example
1581525;1481487505;mircea_popescu;kk,
1581526;1481487538;mircea_popescu;anyway, "png as v format" is inept beyond belief. let alone "i wish to inspect this matter and can't use my eyes", it's worse : "suppose i want this to be 3x as large" "oh can't do that". well da fuck.
1581527;1481487576;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/tmp/goat.dxf << and i will not that i HAVE NFI WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE or if it corresponds to what i saw when i drew the fucker!!!!
1581528;1481487585;mircea_popescu;gimme a minute.
1581529;1481487592;asciilifeform;and whether the component values are in there, or evaporated, etc
1581530;1481487609;asciilifeform;and note that this turd is now ~5MB !!
1581531;1481487802;mircea_popescu;i got it!
1581532;1481487828;asciilifeform;..?
1581533;1481487838;mircea_popescu;a sec
1581534;1481487986;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PfVG0/?raw=true + http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1Pq8P/?raw=true then de-base64.
1581535;1481488008;phf;just attach this png instead http://glyf.org/tmp/dxf2fig.png :D
1581536;1481488037;asciilifeform;that looks like shit fwiw.
1581537;1481488054;asciilifeform;where the fuck did the butterfly missile valves come from phf  !
1581538;1481488055;phf;:D
1581539;1481488064;mircea_popescu;2,2 mb worth of <g id="ID_205" color="rgb(127,127,0)" stroke="currentColor" fill="none" stroke-width="0.055669275"/> <g id="ID_204" color="rgb(0,0,0)" stroke="currentColor" fill="none" stroke-width="0.055669275"/>
1581540;1481488096;asciilifeform;holy SHIT midnightmagic
1581541;1481488097;asciilifeform;err
1581542;1481488098;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu,
1581543;1481488101;mircea_popescu;lol
1581544;1481488103;asciilifeform;1+MB
1581545;1481488106;asciilifeform;no\thx
1581546;1481488108;mircea_popescu;2.2 yes.
1581547;1481488111;asciilifeform;donotwant
1581548;1481488114;mircea_popescu;hey, your shit was 4.7!
1581549;1481488125;asciilifeform;the unreadable dxf yes
1581550;1481488137;phf;yeah, fig is 1.4mb
1581551;1481488148;mircea_popescu;it's big dude wtf do you want from us.
1581552;1481488151;mircea_popescu;make simpler schematics.
1581553;1481488154;asciilifeform;btw these render nowhere mircea_popescu
1581554;1481488160;asciilifeform;what the hell didja read'em in
1581555;1481488162;mircea_popescu;wut ? i'm looking at it as it is.
1581556;1481488165;asciilifeform;in what ??
1581557;1481488166;mircea_popescu;gimp
1581558;1481488177;asciilifeform;my gimp barfs
1581559;1481488183;mircea_popescu;da fuck ?!
1581560;1481488183;phf;which is probably ballpark what vectorizing those dxf's produces (probably with significant info loss)
1581561;1481488187;asciilifeform;Opening '/home/stas/gt/1.svg' failed: Could not open '/home/stas/gt/1.svg' for reading: Error domain 1 code 73 on line 11198 column 38 of file:///home/stas/gt: Couldn't find end of Start Tag path
1581562;1481488192;trinque;what's the problem with a P sig header appearing inside another ?
1581563;1481488197;mircea_popescu;your gimp is broken.
1581564;1481488198;trinque;seems feature-ful
1581565;1481488205;asciilifeform;Opening '/home/stas/gt/2.svg' failed: Could not open '/home/stas/gt/2.svg' for reading: Error domain 1 code 4 on line 1 column 1 of file:///home/stas/gt: Document is empty
1581566;1481488207;trinque;outer's offset extends beyond inner, so what
1581567;1481488218;asciilifeform;i tried in www browsers also -- also barf
1581568;1481488220;trinque;I signed his signed thing is already done
1581569;1481488234;*;trinque just made it to the surface.
1581570;1481488239;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform get a working gimp ? i dunno what to say. mine eats it, i am looking at a 1960x2490 version of it atm, looks fine
1581571;1481488240;asciilifeform;trinque: waiwut
1581572;1481488251;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is nonsense and you know it
1581573;1481488255;mircea_popescu;what!
1581574;1481488258;asciilifeform;a) 2MB crapaola, i'm not signing
1581575;1481488264;asciilifeform;b) svg apparently is not a standard
1581576;1481488274;asciilifeform;because i have nothing on my box that will show THIS svg
1581577;1481488278;asciilifeform;(others -- work)
1581578;1481488289;asciilifeform;what, i gotta allow gtk3 now ?!?!??!?!??!?!
1581579;1481488292;mircea_popescu;it seriously looks good. even your 10K for R5 is there
1581580;1481488297;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i do not use gtk3!
1581581;1481488297;asciilifeform;i will NOT allow gtk.
1581582;1481488298;asciilifeform;3
1581583;1481488307;trinque;asciilifeform: problem was indicated with "magic sig chars appearing in signed material"
1581584;1481488314;asciilifeform;trinque: that was problem 1 of 2
1581585;1481488320;asciilifeform;trinque: read, plz, log.
1581586;1481488320;trinque;problem one is not a problem
1581587;1481488324;trinque;I read the whole log.
1581588;1481488350;asciilifeform;ok now say to me how to vify a schematic.
1581589;1481488360;trinque;wtf if I invalidate #1 that says nothing of #21
1581590;1481488362;trinque;*2
1581591;1481488384;asciilifeform;trinque: 1 is still problem : it is impossible to deedbot an UNMUTILATED payload
1581592;1481488393;asciilifeform;i have '---' in there. it will FUCKING STAY '---'.
1581593;1481488420;trinque;I am discussing a supposed tmsr sign format that does not have but a header and payload
1581594;1481488431;mircea_popescu;phf do you have gimp anywhere ?
1581595;1481488434;asciilifeform;trinque: that is simple and i solved it.
1581596;1481488440;asciilifeform;trinque: just not released yet.
1581597;1481488450;trinque;alrighty then
1581598;1481488467;phf;mircea_popescu: no, but your svg works with mac's default tooling
1581599;1481488470;trinque;release and I'll build into deedbot
1581600;1481488474;asciilifeform;i am NOT signing 2+MB of <path d="M 74.336 74.2623 A 0.03178446947803285 0.03178446947803285 0 0  1 74.381 74.3072 " stroke-width="0.0635"/>
1581601;1481488475;asciilifeform;    <path d="M 74.1479 74.5402 A 0.03174909447527987 0.03174909447527987 0 0  1 74.103 74.4953 " stroke-width="0.0635"/>
1581602;1481488481;mircea_popescu;phf i have nfi what he's on about. seems to me totally broken gimp install.
1581603;1481488484;asciilifeform;this is lunacy
1581604;1481488493;asciilifeform;and i've been using THIS gimp since 2010.
1581605;1481488509;asciilifeform;for 100% of all bitmap work.
1581606;1481488515;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform look, saying "the v is not allowing x char sequence i wanna use" is one thing. saying "o woes i have this here book of 5mn chars and i want it to be readable in 3 minutes" is another thing.
1581607;1481488520;asciilifeform;fwiw inkscape won't eat it either
1581608;1481488522;asciilifeform;nor FreeCAD
1581609;1481488528;mircea_popescu;there's no way to make an arbitrarily complex schematic fit in an arbitrarily short space.
1581610;1481488536;asciilifeform;it isn't complex !
1581611;1481488543;asciilifeform;it is more or less as simple as a schematic gets in life
1581612;1481488547;mircea_popescu;well the dxf you produced - is
1581613;1481488567;mircea_popescu;convertor cut it in half, which considering we went from binary to readable format is pretty performanc.
1581614;1481488582;mircea_popescu;t*
1581615;1481488583;jurov;base64 -d PfVG0
1581616;1481488585;jurov;<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
1581617;1481488586;jurov; <svg viewBox="-0base64: invalid input
1581618;1481488592;jurov;^ something iffy with mircea's base64
1581619;1481488599;mircea_popescu;ugh
1581620;1481488601;jurov;when i do base64 -di
1581621;1481488608;asciilifeform;jurov: ^ is what i did
1581622;1481488609;jurov;then it decodes and i can view the svg
1581623;1481488610;mircea_popescu;jurov did you concat them correctly ?
1581624;1481488610;phf;jurov: is it not -Di
1581625;1481488627;asciilifeform;i had -i -d
1581626;1481488637;jurov;i de-base64 each one, then concat and i can open it fine
1581627;1481488638;phf;actually no idea, it's mac's flags
1581628;1481488647;mircea_popescu;o.O
1581629;1481488649;asciilifeform;btw the first svg is cut off mid-tag
1581630;1481488652;asciilifeform;the second --- not
1581631;1481488657;asciilifeform;(closed properly)
1581632;1481488657;mircea_popescu;you first debased then concat'd and it still worked ?!
1581633;1481488658;mircea_popescu;epic.
1581634;1481488659;phf;mircea_popescu: i have nfi either, i have it unpacked
1581635;1481488663;asciilifeform;BUT still not opens anywhere.
1581636;1481488674;jurov;sha512: 45d2dd64fee8410f3a42715e557b20a480e234ae04fa9e18552bbc0510fc5f57288dbfbdc813ad9f4563a29fcae45caf8d885f96c2f6df55da1febac1b3515ff  goat.svg
1581637;1481488699;mircea_popescu;ill report in a sec, machine currently hosed painting the svg over 200k x 200k canvas
1581638;1481488702;asciilifeform;eee2b71ee18e7a7fe2db81a89dc143a5eabf3e88d6e72df1d5e11c8772999fe99baf1900ade2e8a2797dea8f3cd740383a4705a3cc87b2af24517b348c0e65d1  1.svg
1581639;1481488702;asciilifeform;e4146be79663731228bfb1d9efe20e6df9ee18921ebeb1a40e2f18d17b7b4c6ceb8606af8ffa8cbcd99ab174e714a927443f9632ebd812328de4c9d9a9086c0b  2.svg
1581640;1481488705;phf;(curl 'http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PfVG0/?raw=true'; curl 'http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1Pq8P/?raw=true')|base64 -D -o foo.svg
1581641;1481488718;mircea_popescu;^ phf did it correctly.
1581642;1481488837;asciilifeform;and ftr i am not signing a document that i am supposed to be the original author of but CANNOT GET TO HAPPEN ON MY BOX
1581643;1481488859;mircea_popescu;hang on dawg, we're just trying to figure shit out here
1581644;1481488864;mircea_popescu;nobody's asking you to sign anything yet.
1581645;1481488868;asciilifeform;just sayin'.
1581646;1481488958;mircea_popescu;this box is so hosed...
1581647;1481489020;mircea_popescu;45d2dd64fee8410f3a42715e557b20a480e234ae04fa9e18552bbc0510fc5f57288dbfbdc813ad9f4563a29fcae45caf8d885f96c2f6df55da1febac1b3515ff  /home/mircea/Documents/goat1.svg
1581648;1481489029;asciilifeform;i am apparently 'blessed' with turning over every stone in every garden and releasing every type of insect possible.
1581649;1481489114;asciilifeform;the original, btw, is 600+kB of xml. but this does 0 without the closed-source turd viewer.
1581650;1481489126;asciilifeform;which i am not even sure differs substantially from the svg situation.
1581651;1481489144;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i could readily reduce the svg if you wish, most of it is dreamweaver-style pointless tagging
1581652;1481489151;mircea_popescu;prolly only about 500kb or so of it is meat.
1581653;1481489160;asciilifeform;possibly, but does this solve the problem.
1581654;1481489168;asciilifeform;the problem of signing shit soup.
1581655;1481489176;asciilifeform;that probably won't display on my box no matter how massaged, even.
1581656;1481489181;mircea_popescu;i have nfi, you won't fix your set-up so you can see how great a svg i made out of your dxf!
1581657;1481489194;asciilifeform;other svg's (e.g., the ones on pediwikia) seem to work...
1581658;1481489205;asciilifeform;why --- only satan knows
1581659;1481489208;phf;asciilifeform: did you ~concatenate base64 originals first~?
1581660;1481489216;asciilifeform;no, why
1581661;1481489230;asciilifeform;ooh
1581662;1481489262;asciilifeform;now displays..
1581663;1481489264;asciilifeform;lol
1581664;1481489272;asciilifeform;massive turd tho.
1581665;1481489331;asciilifeform;what, incidentally, will happen if http://www.w3.org/2000/svg dies ?
1581666;1481489344;asciilifeform;or begins to include something it oughn't
1581667;1481489364;jurov;same if libpng does?
1581668;1481489378;asciilifeform;libpng doesn't ask for a turd from the www afaik !
1581669;1481489379;phf;asciilifeform: nothing at this point, none of the xml parses uses DTDs (as predicted by naggum)
1581670;1481489417;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform are you nuts ? libpng eats 10mb+ of www turds!
1581671;1481489418;asciilifeform;i do not want to sign a 'insert usg turd here!' even if theoretically the instruction is not followed on extant renderer
1581672;1481489426;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not per image load !
1581673;1481489440;mircea_popescu;yes, per image load - if you don't have them, image won't load.
1581674;1481489449;asciilifeform;if nic is unplugged, libpng works
1581675;1481489451;asciilifeform;i tested.
1581676;1481489463;mircea_popescu;yes, but if nic is never plugged and you never import turds - doesn'\t work
1581677;1481489465;phf;asciilifeform: so do svg parsers
1581678;1481489466;mircea_popescu;i also tested
1581679;1481489485;mircea_popescu;so no, png in no sense better than svg in this theoretical approach.
1581680;1481489501;mircea_popescu;svg however better - it can be read, as text, and drawn, by hand. png, not so much.
1581681;1481489505;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: png is a bitmap format! where does it ask for www turd? can haz snippet ?
1581682;1481489518;jurov;asciilifeform: the mircea's file does not have dtd declaration anyway...
1581683;1481489521;mircea_popescu;holy shit you're going to argue from "theoretical logic" ?
1581684;1481489530;mircea_popescu;jurov ikr!
1581685;1481489538;asciilifeform;jurov: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
1581686;1481489538;asciilifeform; <svg viewBox="-0.07500000000000284 -248.995  196.2842 249.07" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.0" overflow="visible">
1581687;1481489541;asciilifeform;is how my copy begins
1581688;1481489547;asciilifeform;this differs from jurov's ?
1581689;1481489589;jurov;it's just an attribute. when i include some TEXT chunk in png with an url, nothing happens either.
1581690;1481489633;mircea_popescu;lol
1581691;1481489821;jurov;as opposed to <!DOCTYPE shit blabla "http://webserver/blabla.dtd">  - if you feed this to xml decoder, it gets tempted to fetch it
1581692;1481489850;asciilifeform;and tomorrow everyone ends up on boxes with gtk44444 and it fetches ALL urls.
1581693;1481489853;asciilifeform;then what.
1581694;1481489883;jurov;nukes!!!
1581695;1481489892;asciilifeform;this is no good, jurov .
1581696;1481489926;mircea_popescu;at this point i'm not at all clear what problem you're trying to solve here, but it seems to have become "i wish to pack an arbitrarily long poem into an arbitrarily short notation in such a way it will never be forgotten."
1581697;1481489937;asciilifeform;it was short when i wrote it.
1581698;1481489942;asciilifeform;and is to STAY short.
1581699;1481489943;mircea_popescu;not apparently.
1581700;1481489958;mircea_popescu;give me something other than a 5mb dxf to work with, as per this "Short when i wrote it" ?
1581701;1481489959;asciilifeform;the actual semantic content of that schem is miniscule.
1581702;1481489965;mircea_popescu;so then tmsr-cad ?
1581703;1481489971;asciilifeform;apparently
1581704;1481489974;asciilifeform;and i haven't one
1581705;1481489990;mircea_popescu;but if that's what it is - neither v nor deedbot need fixing for it.
1581706;1481489995;mircea_popescu;so at least we know.
1581707;1481490007;asciilifeform;it was not my favoured hypothesis that they must be fixed.
1581708;1481490017;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1581709;1481490028;asciilifeform;simply that i am stuck in this corner, where there is a thing that needs doing, that i do not have with what to do.
1581710;1481490037;asciilifeform;at all.
1581711;1481490048;mircea_popescu;yeah. but do you agree the actual problem is the lack of a tmsr-cad ? as far as "right things" go ?
1581712;1481490052;asciilifeform;yes.
1581713;1481490062;mircea_popescu;alright. any favoured palliative solutions ?
1581714;1481490067;asciilifeform;and tmsr-fab, and many other things.
1581715;1481490074;asciilifeform;and i find myself agreeing with phf
1581716;1481490088;mircea_popescu;hey, i don't want unreadable turds in v trees either.
1581717;1481490091;asciilifeform;a 'everyone scrolls past when reading' turd does NOT belong in v.
1581718;1481490095;asciilifeform;under any circumstances.
1581719;1481490102;mircea_popescu;it'd be too fucking easy a hole for adlais to slither into.
1581720;1481490128;asciilifeform;the schem will be nonclearsigned, the sig -- posted. the boards -- physically wrapped in copies of the schem. is all i can offer.
1581721;1481490139;asciilifeform;cpld program - vified.
1581722;1481490142;mircea_popescu;certainly exists as svg now as well.
1581723;1481490154;asciilifeform;exists but i ain't signing that horror show.
1581724;1481490163;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1581725;1481490180;mircea_popescu;good thing signature mechanisms are still human-administered or else we'd be sol.
1581726;1481490198;mircea_popescu;"cold equations" is bad enough when you ~fuck up~, but let me tell you about when you didn't even fuck up in the first place.
1581727;1481490210;asciilifeform;which brings back to #1 horror -- how do i deedbot a vpatch and its sig..?
1581728;1481490222;asciilifeform;is there any means for doing this ?
1581729;1481490234;mircea_popescu;it just eats the patch straight neh ?
1581730;1481490238;asciilifeform;not afaik
1581731;1481490244;mircea_popescu;uhm.
1581732;1481490245;asciilifeform;it eats clearsigns neh ?
1581733;1481490287;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1581734;1481490321;asciilifeform;i dunno if there exists upon this cursed earth a rope that doesn't break when i go and pull on it...
1581735;1481490337;mircea_popescu;so what are you sauing here, gotta expand deedbot format so it also accepts btc-dev detached sigs ?
1581736;1481490346;asciilifeform;not so fast.
1581737;1481490349;asciilifeform;i have nfi yet.
1581738;1481490362;asciilifeform;thread began with my asking people to think about this one.
1581739;1481490368;asciilifeform;maybe it has a clean answer.
1581740;1481490375;mircea_popescu;q : can clearsigned document be created out of detachsig document ?
1581741;1481490380;mircea_popescu;i suspect we just write a convertor.
1581742;1481490401;asciilifeform;afaik: not with standard gpg, or such that standard gpg will eat the result
1581743;1481490413;mircea_popescu;fuck standard gpg. in principle - this must work.
1581744;1481490434;asciilifeform;right
1581745;1481490444;asciilifeform;but i don't see a good argument for fucking it but not to deaoth
1581746;1481490447;asciilifeform;*to death
1581747;1481490485;trinque;how far out is P ?
1581748;1481490504;asciilifeform;trinque: i cannot answer this, because it is an experimental weapon
1581749;1481490516;trinque;reasonable.
1581750;1481490529;asciilifeform;it won't be fired in battlefield tonight, that is for sure.
1581751;1481490551;trinque;alright, but I am willing to entertain running gpg and P in parallel for some time, ftr.
1581752;1481490556;trinque;new features could come on the P side.
1581753;1481490580;asciilifeform;trinque: it is a very simple thing, think 'rpn calculator' and you almost have it.
1581754;1481490596;asciilifeform;moves the complexity, such that remains, into the payloads.
1581755;1481490615;*;trinque read ascii's "no formats", sounds nice.
1581756;1481490800;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DYPuN/?raw=true << simple example, verification of a signature using public modulus entered 'by hand'
1581757;1481490845;asciilifeform;'z' simply puts a 0 on the stack, and if ptron sees 0-9 or A-F it shoves the 0 leftward 4 bits, and stuffs in the nibble in place
1581758;1481490858;asciilifeform;thereby you get a stateless hexbignumreader
1581759;1481490875;asciilifeform;there are other commands, e.g., X takes 2 numbers off stack and modexponentiates
1581760;1481490898;asciilifeform;= takes 2 numbers off stack and puts 0 if they are equal, etc
1581761;1481490910;asciilifeform;there are other operators, single character also
1581762;1481490914;mircea_popescu;trinque care to look into if you can bash the signature out of detachsig and attach it as clearsigned ?
1581763;1481490919;asciilifeform;to make the parser almost nonexistently simple
1581764;1481490989;asciilifeform;also this is bad example, in real life no use of p will look like this
1581765;1481490999;phf;asciilifeform: what's the purpose of an extra number in the example?
1581766;1481491006;asciilifeform;which number is extra
1581767;1481491022;phf;0x9ae... seems like it
1581768;1481491025;mircea_popescu;trinque theoretically at least it should be just transform the binary sig into a plaintext packet and glue it in.
1581769;1481491037;trinque;mircea_popescu: did, the signed item has to have already been run through gpg's idiot preprocessor
1581770;1481491058;asciilifeform;phf: it is the known result
1581771;1481491059;mircea_popescu;ah yes, there is that. so can you try an actual messagelist item ?
1581772;1481491075;asciilifeform;phf: with which the = ends up comparing the output of X
1581773;1481491106;phf;asciilifeform: you have 9ae 2ff 100 da9 * = unless i'm misreading
1581774;1481491134;asciilifeform;phf: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ApmIh/?raw=true << same example but before i stripped out the comments
1581775;1481491153;asciilifeform;(whitespaces and endlines are no-ops in P)
1581776;1481491167;asciilifeform;and also anything found in a (  )
1581777;1481491190;asciilifeform;'Z' dumps stack, it will not be in released prog
1581778;1481491218;phf;wait so X multiplies da9 and 100, = compares the result with 2ff, 9ae???
1581779;1481491230;asciilifeform;noooooooooo
1581780;1481491241;asciilifeform;modular exponentiation
1581781;1481491242;trinque;mircea_popescu: reading up on the mangling process, maybe
1581782;1481491247;asciilifeform;* would multiply.
1581783;1481491247;phf;oooh oooh
1581784;1481491250;phf;nm
1581785;1481491274;asciilifeform;and yes this is a prog language where all ops are 1 character of an american kbd
1581786;1481491278;asciilifeform;and no lookahead
1581787;1481491282;asciilifeform;EVER
1581788;1481491299;asciilifeform;ALL ASCII FILES are valid p-code
1581789;1481491350;asciilifeform;(non-ascii files also valid, in 'orc mode', octets 0x1f and below, or 0x7f and above, are ignored
1581790;1481491430;asciilifeform;0x20 and below rather
1581791;1481491430;asciilifeform;there are things that are not in p yet but have to be
1581792;1481491430;asciilifeform;that i omitted for simplicity
1581793;1481491459;asciilifeform;for instance, p code is required to first thing put on the stack 1) how many p-instrs are permitted 2) how many bits wide the fixints are
1581794;1481491464;asciilifeform;if no 1+2 -- no go.
1581795;1481491495;asciilifeform;if overflow, ever -- terminates with sad.
1581796;1481491495;asciilifeform;if overrun of cycle count -- also sad.
1581797;1481491523;asciilifeform;anyway there are other important aspects (e.g., a pubkey looks like:
1581798;1481491531;mircea_popescu;as an interesting side effect, "random file"
1581799;1481491533;mircea_popescu;("find the longest ascii file so that a) lzw compression is under 1% and b) the encryption scheme therein discussed is trivially breakable)
1581800;1481491534;mircea_popescu;trinque mind that there'\s a loose cr/lf spuriously at the end of plaintext payload
1581801;1481491608;asciilifeform;mz2FF!...........pz10001!
1581802;1481491642;trinque;I'd have to spelunk further to confirm, but it looks like clearsigning is canonicalize -> sign
1581803;1481491643;trinque;which holy shit
1581804;1481491647;asciilifeform;what this does is store the modulus in variable #13 ('m' simply pushes integer 13 to stack, '!' stores top of stack in var # second-of-stack)
1581805;1481491656;mircea_popescu;trinque yup it is
1581806;1481491680;asciilifeform;to verify a sig, you feed ptron this VALID PROGRAM ^ -- which creates the pubkey in memory -- and then on top of that, the sigogram
1581807;1481491702;trinque;so then the original item would have to have been detach-signed with line endings already mangled to get a clearsigned version that'd verify
1581808;1481491706;asciilifeform;sorry, ez10001!
1581809;1481491713;trinque;and whatever else it does to the poor clearsigs
1581810;1481491714;asciilifeform;we normally call exponent 'e'
1581811;1481491726;asciilifeform;but this is mere convention.
1581812;1481491781;mircea_popescu;trinque wait what ?!
1581813;1481491797;asciilifeform;then verificator goes 'zSOMETHINGOROTHEREXPECTED m@e@X='
1581814;1481491804;asciilifeform;(spaces for clarity only)
1581815;1481491818;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this sounds pretty delishious tbh.
1581816;1481491832;asciilifeform;this pulls m out, and e, and X-es'em, and ='s result with SOMETHING...
1581817;1481491834;asciilifeform;etc
1581818;1481491838;asciilifeform;this is all just sample for flavour.
1581819;1481491862;asciilifeform;think 'forth'
1581820;1481491866;asciilifeform;e.g., # is dup
1581821;1481491877;asciilifeform;$ gets N bits from your FUCKGOATS
1581822;1481491887;asciilifeform;(N is expected on top of stack)
1581823;1481491898;asciilifeform;+,-,/,* -- arithmetics
1581824;1481491911;asciilifeform;H halts, G -- gcd, etc
1581825;1481491917;asciilifeform;i could go on but why ruin surprises.
1581826;1481491929;mircea_popescu;alf finally made his own asm!
1581827;1481491939;asciilifeform;you ~compose~ p operations by physically concatting the p-progs.
1581828;1481491951;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is neither 1st nor 10th 'faux computer' i make.
1581829;1481491976;mircea_popescu;oic. well it's the first here.
1581830;1481491996;trinque;mircea_popescu: it seems to me the two paths (clearsign and detached-sign) sign completely different piles of bits, if the clearsign first goes through some transformer
1581831;1481492023;trinque;so then if I've got a sig of an un-transformed item in ML, it may contain things the transformer would've stripped/modified if it were clearsigned
1581832;1481492040;mircea_popescu;trinque the clearsign iirc is a stricter operation ; but plenty of signedtxts emerge untouched from both processes.
1581833;1481492063;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat
1581834;1481492479;mircea_popescu;trinque at the very least a result here could be where you machine-verify that X item deedbotted is equal to X' v-item through the process of a) X valid clearsigned b) X' valid detach0igned c) X = preprocessor(X')
1581835;1481492525;mircea_popescu;then eg. the notes field could include link to ml.
1581836;1481492542;trinque;for sure. I'll let all know what I find.
1581837;1481492562;mircea_popescu;but in general speaking, usg.koch blessed us with an idiocy which has to be resolved somehow.
1581838;1481492969;trinque;clearsig "canonicalization" includes line ending conversion to crlf before sig, and lf-only endings probably represent *all* submissions to the ML
1581839;1481492993;trinque;ben_vulpes: was it you and me that ran into this problem at some point? I cannot remember regarding what
1581840;1481493000;mircea_popescu;and then koch wants to go around pretending like he's one of us.
1581841;1481493011;mircea_popescu;how, pray tell ? and check out how easy it is to unearth the heathens.
1581842;1481493039;trinque;and the process is not reversible, couldn't even put the information in like "this had lf" somewhere
1581843;1481493070;trinque;--decrypt gives you a freshly resquashed turd your machine never saw before.
1581844;1481493083;mircea_popescu;aha.
1581845;1481493152;ben_vulpes;possibly
1581846;1481495501;ben_vulpes;yeah that sounds familiar, actually.
1581847;1481495536;ben_vulpes;either i remember a decrypted clearsign's hash not matching or am inventing the memory
1581848;1481495740;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581116 << very nice to have, much thx!
1581849;1481495740;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 05:49 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: scan results: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P5jFW/
1581850;1481495847;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581842 << this is entirely so, and iirc i smashed my head into this very wall when jurov made ( per my scheme ) 'turdatron' ml system
1581851;1481495847;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 21:50 trinque: and the process is not reversible, couldn't even put the information in like "this had lf" somewhere
1581852;1481495965;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581840 << i dunno that he even bothers to pretend, he is a confessed recipient of microshit cheques
1581853;1481495965;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 21:50 mircea_popescu: and then koch wants to go around pretending like he's one of us.
1581854;1481495979;asciilifeform;( and devil knows what else )
1581855;1481496089;Framedragger;ohno he received a cheque from microshit??? that hitler!! cmon now.
1581856;1481496089;Framedragger;/me received one from google even, once. (for doing stuff related to... tor!!11eleven)
1581857;1481496098;asciilifeform;Framedragger: not salary
1581858;1481496100;asciilifeform;DONATION
1581859;1481496106;asciilifeform;they approve of the type of work that gpg turd is.
1581860;1481496129;Framedragger;ah, well, that does make one feel.. more uneasy..
1581861;1481496141;asciilifeform;very different animal.
1581862;1481496148;Framedragger;i see what you mean.
1581863;1481496254;asciilifeform;it is not so hard to buy people, without even saying a word;
1581864;1481496265;asciilifeform;when they are poor; but 100x easier when poor+stupid also.
1581865;1481496278;asciilifeform;!#s esr
1581866;1481496279;a111;117 results for "esr", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=esr
1581867;1481497252;asciilifeform;i was not going to expand on the 'p' thread until the proggy is done, but this is probably a good time to say 1 more
1581868;1481497267;asciilifeform;there are no special-purpose ops to produce hashes
1581869;1481497307;asciilifeform;it is POSSIBLE to write, e.g., sha512, or keccak, in p, but not essentially necessary, because one of the philosophical turtles of p is that you SEE what you are signing
1581870;1481497322;asciilifeform;e.g., want to sign hash? get it whereever you like, and drop it IN THE PCODE
1581871;1481497343;asciilifeform;(pcode can output, if it weren't obvious, another pcode)
1581872;1481497453;asciilifeform;if my sig is of 'A35A727799941F46F4500F25389F21F4E995F64AC65341080052EC014A8BACD76D992D0C7A5B0250502D', that thing will appear ~to naked eye~ in the pcode as 'zA35A727799941F46F4500F25389F21F4E995F64AC65341080052EC014A8BACD76D992D0C7A5B0250502D' .
1581873;1481497454;asciilifeform;etc.
1581874;1481497456;*;asciilifeform bbl.
1581875;1481498082;mircea_popescu;Framedragger hey, do you also bitch at people who bitch at, eg, mozilla guy who happens to have invented the shit mozilla runs being "bad" because he donated 1k to whoever ?
1581876;1481498105;mircea_popescu;im sure koch got >1k and IM FUCKING SURE microsoft is worse than any "anti-gay-marriage racists" out there.
1581877;1481498414;mircea_popescu;so in short : no, it's not ok to take microsoft money. human trafficking money, the proceeds of sales of endangered baby panda tears, the ransom paid for the return of obama's kidnapped daughters, all that is a-ok.
1581878;1481498421;mircea_popescu;microsoft money, that's unspendable.
1581879;1481498679;Framedragger;i guess it's legitimate to bitch about that. i've never been sure. but i did poke at an acquaintance who had plans of working at gchq. to be consistent, i should.. be consistent.
1581880;1481498732;mircea_popescu;i don't specifically care, myself, but i can't seem to bring any argument that'd stand when someone decides "fuck him, he's a microsoft tool".
1581881;1481498773;mircea_popescu;because well... he is. and if you take the ethical stand that you don't want to be paid by rapists and murderers, then microsoft tops the list in any reasonable interpretation and that's what it is.
1581882;1481498962;mircea_popescu;~maybe~ the girl really like it ; and ~maybe~ the dude had it coming to him. but ~certainly~ there is no room for windows & co in this world. the advantage of software, it allows definitive statements to be made like that (an inverse of the problem of liability, wherein hardware lock making company CAN replace any broken locks it shipped, but software lock making company can't because they're all the same lock.) this was used
1581883;1481498963;mircea_popescu; to justify why there's no legal recourse for bad software - and guess what, it stands just as well to explain why it is better to murder and rape than to microsoft.
1581884;1481499712;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/P5yRd/?raw=true
1581885;1481499712;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1581886;1481503401;*;mod6 catches up on megal0g
1581887;1481506927;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65E53AAD3C50368DCEDAB5E9AE49FF9F04FC13CC7B2AA14B00B60A6765883426 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1733...6777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.201.13.182 (ssh-rsa key from 109.201.13.182 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (int0.client.access.fanaptelecom.net. IR)
1581888;1481507467;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF377674893AE5B24A2C05E8CEA017E2B825916DC2B1288D65229198BF0B7D6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1893...6201 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.253.102.107 (ssh-rsa key from 87.253.102.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-107-102.253-87.enter.it. IT)
1581889;1481507467;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/39DF9D425039282DC6DD48D8107CDC48D35C1D374D5B0BACFBBA032EBEB9A8D1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1560...3563 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.32.145 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.32.145 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CA)
1581890;1481507467;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F24AA9CF11A01F8E3F25C060D49840FB4E0D7D78FF146A3024B3BFEE92EC85BB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1791...1257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.41.78.163 (ssh-rsa key from 213.41.78.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (radius-front2.fr.colt.net. GB)
1581891;1481508005;shinohai;During Festivus, for every key phuctored a router gets its wings
1581892;1481510275;phf;so stanford release knuth's annual lecture in a "360" video format, and the write up is disgusting "stanford part of the future!!1". basically you get a 7gib video/80mib audio stream, a fraction of which is a distorted slides and knuth, where's the bulk of which is audience and static ceiling. the thing doesn't render on anything but google stack and ipads. i spent about two days jumping through various hoops trying to get it to render
1581893;1481510275;phf;in some usable format (short of installing google chrome of course) and so far "transcoding with a deskew shader" seems like the most viable option ???
1581894;1481510293;phf;https://vptl.stanford.edu/news/stanford-computer-scientist-donald-knuth-s-annual-lecture-be-streamed-live-video-offers-virtual
1581895;1481510356;asciilifeform;'“This year, our Learning Innovation team is going to be piloting the use of a new virtual reality 360-degree video camera that will actually allow all those people tuning in over the internet to attend the lecture as if they were physically in the auditorium,”'
1581896;1481510375;asciilifeform;now if only there were also a way to pump the unwashed student's armpit flavour into my office also !!
1581897;1481510388;asciilifeform;will taste GREAT with balanced diet of backs of heads etc
1581898;1481510454;asciilifeform;'By using a computer mouse, or by tilting a smartphone or tablet, participants will be able to individually control the video angle and experience 360-degree viewing.'
1581899;1481510459;asciilifeform;simulate dozing off, staring at ceiling !
1581900;1481510466;asciilifeform;just like at your real uni lectures 20 yrs ago!
1581901;1481510469;asciilifeform;mega-win.
1581902;1481510505;phf;of course the only proper way of watching this video is using Google Cardboard! https://vr.google.com/cardboard/
1581903;1481510513;asciilifeform;hlrphf
1581904;1481511080;phf;i will flatten this shit, or help me god. so far the solution i figured that doesn't require writing code or using dodgy third party software is to use the video as a material texture inside a sphere in blender. with some 3d space camera shuffling i can produce two separate video streams, one of knuth and one of slides, but the result looks like dog so far.
1581905;1481511125;asciilifeform;he didn't release the raw slides ?
1581906;1481511242;phf;guy does hand written transparents mostly or whatever else he can put under an overhead projector
1581907;1481511509;phf;this is more like watching a millenarian speak on a subject of his avocation than anything else
1581908;1481511533;asciilifeform;phf: if you get a usable output, plz consider posting.
1581909;1481512898;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/ruskies-chase-isis-out-of-palmyra-isis-returns-hours-later/ << Qntra - Ruskies Chase ISIS Out Of Palmyra, ISIS Returns Hours Later
1581910;1481512922;shinohai;bwahahaha lulzy
1581911;1481513396;mircea_popescu;dude wtf, can't just have a text transcript ?
1581912;1481513398;mircea_popescu;fucking monkeys.
1581913;1481513498;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65E53AAD3C50368DCEDAB5E9AE49FF9F04FC13CC7B2AA14B00B60A6765883426 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1629...7809 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.201.13.182 (ssh-rsa key from 109.201.13.182 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (int0.client.access.fanaptelecom.net. IR)
1581914;1481513499;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C68477E648E056039DA3F49F5CAF6C7F86A2F6DEA52688B3A2974D1A8F8FCEB1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1017...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.17 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1581915;1481513608;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581891 << lol it just keeps churning 'em isn't it.
1581916;1481513608;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 02:00 shinohai: During Festivus, for every key phuctored a router gets its wings
1581917;1481513871;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581904 <<< ahahaha. win.
1581918;1481513871;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 02:51 phf: i will flatten this shit, or help me god. so far the solution i figured that doesn't require writing code or using dodgy third party software is to use the video as a material texture inside a sphere in blender. with some 3d space camera shuffling i can produce two separate video streams, one of knuth and one of slides, but the result looks like dog so far.
1581919;1481513895;mircea_popescu;are you going to be making me models next ? :D :D :D
1581920;1481513962;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581905 << apparently knuth is blisfully unaware the micros even exist.
1581921;1481513962;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 02:52 asciilifeform: he didn't release the raw slides ?
1581922;1481513989;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581907 << which is the very fucking point, of course. "all equal, all stupid, all vorvarts!"
1581923;1481513989;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 02:58 phf: this is more like watching a millenarian speak on a subject of his avocation than anything else
1581924;1481514039;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF377674893AE5B24A2C05E8CEA017E2B825916DC2B1288D65229198BF0B7D6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1368...9973 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.253.102.107 (ssh-rsa key from 87.253.102.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-107-102.253-87.enter.it. IT)
1581925;1481514039;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/39DF9D425039282DC6DD48D8107CDC48D35C1D374D5B0BACFBBA032EBEB9A8D1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1350...3569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.32.145 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.32.145 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CA)
1581926;1481514209;mod6;All in all, I agree that blobs do not belong in a vpatch.  As stated, they are for readable, grokable, text only.
1581927;1481514291;mod6;That said, I'm not positive what is a favorable solution to this.  For me, I guess I would have considered a disjointed genesis.  All code in a genesis.vpatch, plus a comment in the code or README.txt file that points to a clearsigned, base64 encoded deed of the (repeatably extractabale) binary (image in this case).
1581928;1481514396;mod6;I support no such futher complixity in V/vdiff to deal with these blobs.  No one-offisms, etc.
1581929;1481514410;phf;fwiw that solution works reasonably with btcbase (right now it's not used, but it picks up a README from each patches folder and cats it inline before the graph, so i can add a "here's all the additional stuff that you might need for this v tree")
1581930;1481514499;mircea_popescu;meh, but how do you verify it
1581931;1481514543;phf;you verify vpatch using its sig, you verify additional assets using their sig. you can't verify that the set is exhaustive though
1581932;1481514575;mircea_popescu;aqnd all sorts of things
1581933;1481514579;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/484822910CDA12E35E6F4186FAC9CEC226A489C3AFE0B9136AD9B2F5373FD65A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1017...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.4.13 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.4.13 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1581934;1481514579;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C68477E648E056039DA3F49F5CAF6C7F86A2F6DEA52688B3A2974D1A8F8FCEB1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1017...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.17 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1581935;1481514591;mircea_popescu;bundling data with code is a serious problem ; the v model brings it in a very sharp focus
1581936;1481514603;mircea_popescu;(i've been running into a version fo this in eulora too ; with the art assets)
1581937;1481514630;phf;fwiw it's the same with wordpress
1581938;1481514652;mircea_popescu;yeah ; mp-wp had no themes did it.
1581939;1481514695;phf;it didn't but even mp-wp has a bunch of admin interface images. magnifying glass, scissors, that sort of stuff
1581940;1481514702;mircea_popescu;myeah
1581941;1481515329;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581931 << exactly this!
1581942;1481515329;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 03:49 phf: you verify vpatch using its sig, you verify additional assets using their sig. you can't verify that the set is exhaustive though
1581943;1481515347;asciilifeform;ftr i still have thought of no satisfactory solution.
1581944;1481515428;mircea_popescu;including data with the code is a nightmare not least because it puts state into things
1581945;1481515472;mircea_popescu;"oh, THIS leaf doesn't go with THAT datapile! gotta use THAT' datapile! except if you feed THAT' datapile to THIS' leaf it comes alive at night and fucks your wife!"
1581946;1481515514;mircea_popescu;i fear the only way forward is for data to be base64'd, deedbotted, and then referenced as such in code.
1581947;1481515532;asciilifeform;sorta what i tried earlier today...
1581948;1481515540;asciilifeform;reactor melted
1581949;1481515776;asciilifeform;i considered making, by hand, a v-able netlist, with component values etc. , in sexpr format, for a nonexistent tmsr cad. the real problem is that everyone, without exception and including myself, will insist on viewing the 'unofficial' pictoral schematic.
1581950;1481515793;asciilifeform;because you can't human-read netlist, not really.
1581951;1481515870;asciilifeform;(for folx who have nfi -- 'netlist' is an adjacency matrix representing an undirected graph, e.g., electric circuit)
1581952;1481517789;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581929 << http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot not to make more work for you, but the smooshing of ircbot and logbot apparently hosed your pre-graph catment
1581953;1481517789;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 03:46 phf: fwiw that solution works reasonably with btcbase (right now it's not used, but it picks up a README from each patches folder and cats it inline before the graph, so i can add a "here's all the additional stuff that you might need for this v tree")
1581954;1481517813;ben_vulpes;i also have no suggestions for fixing your problem, asciilifeform
1581955;1481520431;*;BingoBoingo suggests relaxing session of whittling with a sawzall to clear mind, shame microfiche can't be clearsigned.
1581956;1481534253;Framedragger;shinohai: s/Palyrma/Palmyra/ (1st sentence) :) (also not sure if you wanted Months to be capitalised but maybe stylistic pref)
1581957;1481537691;*;Framedragger just placed an order for FG-USB and feels very christmas-y!
1581958;1481538372;Framedragger;(a rather decent bitcoin invoicing interface btw)
1581959;1481548194;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581948 << dude what ? link me where you tried it wouldja, i recall it working fine when eg gpg source.
1581960;1481548194;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 04:05 asciilifeform: reactor melted
1581961;1481548224;mircea_popescu;also the reason your handmade netlist is not usable is ~same svg is not usable : too long.
1581962;1481548236;mircea_popescu;they're the same length however, and for the same reason : item too complex.
1581963;1481548285;mircea_popescu;"but mp, it was simple when i made it" "yes, if i define three letter strings as various pieces of literature, i'll be able to "write" whole books by saying agafufu. so what of it."
1581964;1481548329;mircea_popescu;Framedragger unlike to make it before jan tho. sorry bout that.
1581965;1481548356;Framedragger;'tis what i figured :) my christmasy spirit will not be diminished, tho!
1581966;1481548367;Framedragger;(thanks for the heads up)
1581967;1481548479;mircea_popescu;ta nana na na na nana nananana nana na na!
1581968;1481549342;Framedragger;btw i'm going thru those ssh banners from ssh scan logs finally, and there's some inconsistent crap there (thanks openssh): same ip&port may respond with two different banners during same scan (the ssh-keyscan utility may spit banners for same server multiple times). it seems usually the mismatch is in adding a minor version onto ssh server string only (e.g. [SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.8] vs. older [SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.8p2])
1581969;1481549364;Framedragger;but it also does shit like [SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.1p1 Debian-5] vs. older [SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.5p1 Debian-4ubuntu5]
1581970;1481549376;mircea_popescu;is older from june ?
1581971;1481549398;Framedragger;imma dump all this in a nice format now, i'll separate OS string from ssh versionstring i guess
1581972;1481549425;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: nono - sorry for confusing - "older" as in "previously seen in same logfile", it's for my internal use so i don't go insane. all of this is from single scan even in 13-14 june.
1581973;1481549447;mircea_popescu;ah. because boxes with the various "autoupdate" things mya do that.
1581974;1481549456;Framedragger;the later "rescan" only added previously-unseen IPs, + new IPs. same ip was never scanned twice, assuming it already spat out a banner and pubkey the first time.
1581975;1481549460;Framedragger;yeah.
1581976;1481549484;Framedragger;i guess as long as everything's stored in a sane manner and format, it's no big diff.
1581977;1481549514;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1581978;1481549540;Framedragger;i guess the scanned banners could go into a separate "scans" table with timestamps / scan event numbers, so that one could JOIN and check multiple banners for ip, especially when i plan to later re-scan everything again, etc.
1581979;1481549572;mircea_popescu;this is becoming quite the autonomous "net awareness" item.
1581980;1481549582;mircea_popescu;nabt.
1581981;1481549624;mircea_popescu;lol /me googles "nabt", first result ? national association of biology teachers (this site may be hacked).
1581982;1481549628;mircea_popescu;ty google for your blessing ?
1581983;1481549632;Framedragger;hahaha
1581984;1481549633;mircea_popescu;anyway. nabt = not a bad thing.
1581985;1481549640;Framedragger;ahh. cool
1581986;1481549711;Framedragger;yeah, would be great to have ssl certs etc all in the same place, timestamped, so one could track history, to an extent. (and then be able to offer realtime scans and alerts as a service, say...)
1581987;1481549916;mircea_popescu;how the fuck is it that those supposedly ubervaluable engineers that don't exist anywhere else and can't be replicated (as per microsoft idiot) nevertheless DO NOT COMPREHEND the difference between the present conditional and the pluperfect conditional.
1581988;1481549949;mircea_popescu;it may be, it might have been, whatever the fuck, same thing.
1581989;1481549979;mircea_popescu;then they choose to write in brainfuck and everybody goes "oh, brainfuck, modern language" rather than "oh, these idiots can't even speak english."
1581990;1481550052;mircea_popescu;one fucking step away from "this site maybe hacking, we here at google al-halala, no hack, no hack at all sir!"
1581991;1481550098;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBDA_4DKrbM <
1581992;1481550163;*;Framedragger has a guess that many 'native speaker' derps can get confuzzled when encountering future perfect ("will have hacked")
1581993;1481550174;Framedragger;it's too much to handle, i tell u
1581994;1481550390;mircea_popescu;fuck 'em. they want to get into engineering school, first they acquire literacy in their mother tongue what the everliving fuck might this have had being!
1581995;1481550674;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581961 << this is pointedly not so, think about it for a minute, a netlist cannot be longer than the active pincount !
1581996;1481550674;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 13:10 mircea_popescu: also the reason your handmade netlist is not usable is ~same svg is not usable : too long.
1581997;1481550717;asciilifeform;in our case, it is shorter than the pld src
1581998;1481550739;asciilifeform;considerably .
1581999;1481550912;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581987 << where was this ?
1582000;1481550912;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 13:38 mircea_popescu: how the fuck is it that those supposedly ubervaluable engineers that don't exist anywhere else and can't be replicated (as per microsoft idiot) nevertheless DO NOT COMPREHEND the difference between the present conditional and the pluperfect conditional.
1582001;1481551122;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: think, netlist is the essential 'soul' of schematic, definitionally such that if you change ONE character, you get a ~different~ (and , likely, broken) device.
1582002;1481551195;asciilifeform;and it has no stinking 10-digit (or any other) pixel coords (wtf), line thicknesses, fonts, etc.
1582003;1481552439;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes but irrespective, it's for the same ~reason~.
1582004;1481552447;mircea_popescu;a svg also "can not be longer than the total line count"
1582005;1481552473;asciilifeform;svg lines are garbage though
1582006;1481552479;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform which of the two thises are you inquiring about ?
1582007;1481552503;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no! they aren't garbage, as you sdaid yourself - nobody would want to see the netlist, because they'd want to see the "unofficial" LINES.
1582008;1481552556;asciilifeform;well theoretically you can make the schem from the netlist. but doing so usefully is np-complete
1582009;1481552575;mircea_popescu;exactly. so no, the svg lines aren't garbage - on the contrary, unlike netlist, interesting.
1582010;1481552589;asciilifeform;but indeed schem 'lives in' a correctly made netlist.
1582011;1481552595;mircea_popescu;this is also true.
1582012;1481552631;asciilifeform;and they ARE garbage, wtf , 10 decimal coords? thicknesses? WHY
1582013;1481552651;mircea_popescu;ya well.
1582014;1481552679;asciilifeform;it occurs to me that one could write a 'garbage compactor' for these
1582015;1481552708;asciilifeform;discretized the floats, round the thicknesses to 2 places, etc
1582016;1481552798;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the (unrelated) q was re the illiterate engineers thing
1582017;1481552806;asciilifeform;where was it from
1582018;1481554499;mircea_popescu;some dork named danluu was raving on about how microsoft sucks because google got all the engineers that exist.
1582019;1481554555;mircea_popescu;o wait, wasn't him. some other dork by the name alex clemmer, http://blog.nullspace.io/building-search-engines.html
1582020;1481554609;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579614 << rant.
1582021;1481554609;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 03:29 mircea_popescu: "What would Lucene at Google’s size look like? If we do a naive back of the envelope calculation on what it would take to index a significant fraction of the internet (often estimated to be 1 trillion (T) or 10T documents), we might expect a 1T document index to cost something like $10B1. That’s not a feasible startup, so let’s say that instead of trying to index 1T documents, we want to maintain an artisanal search ind
1582022;1481554676;mircea_popescu;in proper terms : even the empire figured out the incredibly tenuous position of google, who a) provides no useful service and b) survives exactly out of yahoo-style ponzi scheme (as described by paul graham, one of its architects pre dot com bubble)
1582023;1481554710;mircea_popescu;so you know, they're doing their patriotic duty to pretend so as to create the aggregate dogvomit upon which "nobody could have predicted" in case there's any responsibility to allocate later.
1582024;1481554738;mircea_popescu;like the fucking zergs, they're making the creep.
1582025;1481554863;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582014 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581651
1582026;1481554863;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 14:24 asciilifeform: it occurs to me that one could write a 'garbage compactor' for these
1582027;1481554863;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 20:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i could readily reduce the svg if you wish, most of it is dreamweaver-style pointless tagging
1582028;1481555301;asciilifeform;a 'p'-style vector graphics thing might be interesting , in some distant future..
1582029;1481555427;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582023 << it's the ~only ~working search engine, like or not. (and no, rubbish with 'maybe we crawl your page this ~year~ unless you're a major newspaper' is not a search engine)
1582030;1481555427;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 14:58 mircea_popescu: so you know, they're doing their patriotic duty to pretend so as to create the aggregate dogvomit upon which "nobody could have predicted" in case there's any responsibility to allocate later.
1582031;1481555555;mircea_popescu;except when we wanted eg framedragger's data we had to crawl ourselves, yes ?
1582032;1481555571;mircea_popescu;whenever i actually want data i have to crawl myself but people go around saying "google is the only working search engine"
1582033;1481555592;mircea_popescu;yes dude, if you want wikipedia answers for wikipedia user's interests it's fucking great!
1582034;1481555607;mircea_popescu;somehow however i don't seem to ever want that.
1582035;1481555658;asciilifeform;it doesn't port scan , no
1582036;1481555683;mircea_popescu;oh, but when i want stuff from the log i also don't google
1582037;1481555687;asciilifeform;it also doesn't hammer nails
1582038;1481555705;mircea_popescu;it also doesn't do anything, because yes srsly, i don't need to "google trump" to find trump's facebook page.
1582039;1481555708;asciilifeform;strangely enough it has ~entire log
1582040;1481555712;asciilifeform;and phuctor also.
1582041;1481555721;asciilifeform;(why
1582042;1481555728;asciilifeform;i have nfi why )
1582043;1481555731;mircea_popescu;!~google "strangely enough it has ~entire log"
1582044;1481555732;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: strangely enough Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary: <http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/strangely-enough>; Strangely Enough - The New York Times: <http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/magazine/surreal-photography.html>; Language Log » One comma too many: <http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/%3Fp%3D2339>
1582045;1481555735;mircea_popescu;awww
1582046;1481555741;mircea_popescu;!#s "strangely enough it has ~entire log"
1582047;1481555742;a111;2 results for "\"strangely enough it has ~entire log\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22strangely%20enough%20it%20has%20%7Eentire%20log%22
1582048;1481555743;asciilifeform;usually takes hour or so
1582049;1481555745;mircea_popescu;fuck me it doesn't!
1582050;1481555749;mircea_popescu;fine.
1582051;1481555765;mircea_popescu;!~google "at any rate, talk to the old trotskyists, mats , they might help."
1582052;1481555767;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: If the Trotskyists are on the march there's chaos ahead | John Harris ...: <https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/11/trotskyists-on-the-march-chaos-ahead>; Chapter I: Family and School: Leon Trotsky : Stalin –An appraisal of ...: <https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1940/xx/stalin/ch01.htm>; Trotskyism - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism>
1582053;1481555774;mircea_popescu;!#s "at any rate, talk to the old trotskyists, mats , they might help."
1582054;1481555774;a111;2 results for "\"at any rate, talk to the old trotskyists, mats , they might help.\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22at%20any%20rate%2C%20talk%20to%20the%20old%20trotskyists%2C%20mats%20%2C%20they%20might%20help.%22
1582055;1481555779;asciilifeform;^ did this ever work ?
1582056;1481555786;mircea_popescu;look.
1582057;1481555795;mircea_popescu;it "does" except not this not that and not the other. which is the fucking point.
1582058;1481555797;asciilifeform;the google-from-bot i mean
1582059;1481555808;mircea_popescu;yes, i'm aware it can point me to google's facebook. tyvm it never seems to be a practical need i have.
1582060;1481555813;mircea_popescu;sigh.
1582061;1481555815;asciilifeform;i dun recall it getting even 1 useful result this way.
1582062;1481555849;asciilifeform;useful shit tends to live 20, 30 places into the list
1582063;1481555849;mircea_popescu;No results found for "at any rate, talk to the old trotskyists, mats , they might help.". << via the web interface
1582064;1481555898;asciilifeform;then i suppose the rot - continues. rotten, maggoty google is still the closest thing i know of to working search engine for www...
1582065;1481555927;mircea_popescu;"for banal www as long as i don't look for things anyone in the libertard camp may object to, conceivably"
1582066;1481555945;asciilifeform;'in the great birdlessness, my arse is a nightingale'
1582067;1481555955;mircea_popescu;i guess.
1582068;1481555971;asciilifeform;and yes, it even censors warez now.
1582069;1481555979;asciilifeform;for couple of years now.
1582070;1481555984;mircea_popescu;you can pretty much guess what % of imbeciles make up a site's userbase by what % come via search.
1582071;1481556002;asciilifeform;99% of phuctor hits.
1582072;1481556004;asciilifeform;google.
1582073;1481556010;mircea_popescu;ahahaha ouch.
1582074;1481556019;mircea_popescu;"you can pretty much guess what % of imbeciles make up an old, established site's userbase by what % come via search."
1582075;1481556051;asciilifeform;dunno why not censored phuctor yet! i must be doing something wrong!11111
1582076;1481556081;mircea_popescu;you prolly have interesting numbers.
1582077;1481556165;Framedragger;so many good project ideas.
1582078;1481556181;mircea_popescu;don't start too soon. we've not yet the manpower or infrastructure to do a google.
1582079;1481556182;mircea_popescu;after uci.
1582080;1481556226;mircea_popescu;the tmsr situation is very much like, space ship landed on new planet, there's a few people and tech of unspeakable power, and otherwise a bunch of shamanic tribes on the surface. fuckable, but that's about all, their ooga-ooga language is fucking tiresome.
1582081;1481556280;Framedragger;uci == universal computing interface? something something infrastructure on demand at your irc fingertips, right (ironically google is failing me)
1582082;1481556298;mircea_popescu;right.
1582083;1481556304;mircea_popescu;it's in teh ticket system
1582084;1481556373;mircea_popescu;inbcidentally asciilifeform as per that discussion of how much it costs to index etc, phuctor is a total google poison.
1582085;1481556383;mircea_popescu;ie, we probably cost it more than hacker news.
1582086;1481556395;asciilifeform;they dun have to crawl it if they dun wanna.
1582087;1481556400;mircea_popescu;hence poison.
1582088;1481556401;asciilifeform;funnily enough i even have 'robots off'
1582089;1481556404;asciilifeform;they -- insists.
1582090;1481556407;asciilifeform;*insist
1582091;1481556409;mircea_popescu;lol
1582092;1481556439;asciilifeform;bunch of other crawlers i've never heard of, also:
1582093;1481556474;asciilifeform;e.g., something claiming to be http://ahrefs.com/robot, but not obeying the 'off switch' specified there; and jumping ip ranges 10+ times if banned (i can no longer be arsed)
1582094;1481556929;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582034 << btw when i search for error messages, i generally find'em. granted this is 'moral hazard' and arguably makes for a substantially more turdalicious software ecosystem than if folks were 'shit out of luck' when seeing EGGOGs. but there it is.
1582095;1481556929;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 15:13 mircea_popescu: somehow however i don't seem to ever want that.
1582096;1481556936;asciilifeform;'if you can, you must' (tm) (r) ( mircea_popescu )
1582097;1481557028;asciilifeform;with that in mind, neither 'rotor', nor fuckgoats, nor phuctor, would exist if asciilifeform had not been able to do ~10,000 google searches.
1582098;1481557036;asciilifeform;fact.
1582099;1481557077;asciilifeform;the necessary detail is NOT found in my dead tree collection, nor in meatwot, nor anywhere else i could conceivably get to other than via bad old heathen search.
1582100;1481557105;asciilifeform;it is very easy to piss on google when you don't have to do anything technical with own hands.
1582101;1481557112;asciilifeform;but those of us who do -- are its prisoners.
1582102;1481558858;mircea_popescu;ah that ahrefs thing it's a "seo tool".
1582103;1481558867;mircea_popescu;basically tries to figure out how links work to fuck with it.
1582104;1481559039;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i ran into problem trying to get mm6 to run on wine ; error message search (R6034 !) yielded NOTHING USEFUL. just endless pile of imbeciles doing the usual imbecile thing "oh, you got that ? so did i. i heard johnny also did or had a friend who did hey have you tried washing hands?"
1582105;1481559051;mircea_popescu;and on like that forever. i long ago despaired of trying to google error messages.
1582106;1481559105;asciilifeform;what could be hoped for when searching for wine error msg ? best you can ask for is to learn what aspect of weird undocumented winblowsism was never implemented in wine
1582107;1481559139;mircea_popescu;but this isn't my point. go ahead, search yourself, it's just a pile of the usual chickens doing their usual chicken crrr-crrrr-crrrrrkkkk!
1582108;1481559164;mircea_popescu;anyway, i got it flattened into shape, but because debugging the videocard not because googling the web.
1582109;1481559180;mircea_popescu;(of course it's the videocard. IT FUCKING ALWAYS IS.)
1582110;1481559429;asciilifeform;i can see that it does not work so well when there are chickens in the mix.
1582111;1481559654;asciilifeform;but when xilinx's synth tool stubbornly refused to map the collective reset in FUCKGOATS to the global reset pin, i found the answer with, yes, a few hours of google.
1582112;1481559755;mircea_popescu;that i can believe.
1582113;1481559777;mircea_popescu;for the record, in my experience a good HALF of wine errors encountered in practice (man wants to play the games from the times when games were worth playing) are...
1582114;1481559780;mircea_popescu;seriously, guess ?
1582115;1481559785;asciilifeform;and, for instance, also had to outwit the 'ai' in the thing to keep it from 'recognizing state machine' and ADDING GATES wtfomfgh
1582116;1481559807;mircea_popescu;BAD DIRECTORY STRUCTURE. no, might and magic 6 is NOT HAPPY to find itself in a directory including spaces, ampersands and unicode's mother on a stick.
1582117;1481559814;asciilifeform;mega-unsurprise
1582118;1481559822;asciilifeform;natural habitat of winblows proggies had no such things.
1582119;1481559829;mircea_popescu;dos really but yea
1582120;1481559838;asciilifeform;(win9x+ had spaces but iirc that's all)
1582121;1481559967;asciilifeform;my deep suspicion here is that there are actually at least ~two~ sets of www; one with chickens, and one without; and if you are doing something that is largely confined to the latter, you can almost pretend that the year is at worst 2001, and search - works, and forums - exist, etc.
1582122;1481560071;mircea_popescu;yes, for while that lasts
1582123;1481560099;mircea_popescu;(lasts, not because chickens will become xilinx fans, but because the last people who know how it works will die, and then their writings will... BE MOVED TO NEW DIRECTORIES. and that's that.)
1582124;1481560110;asciilifeform;oh in re: 'golden 1990s': i recently contemplated making a game-playing box to 'unwind' with, and looked into where to get a decent flying-joystick. and apparently the best ones were made in 1990s, and today sought after, and rare...
1582125;1481560128;mircea_popescu;lol get the mig one
1582126;1481560217;asciilifeform;i would, but it'd need electric gimballs
1582127;1481560231;mircea_popescu;ah they were all servo an' shit huh
1582128;1481560244;asciilifeform;they were hydraulic, like a post-70s auto
1582129;1481560254;asciilifeform;afaik -- still are
1582130;1481560272;Framedragger;hah that reminds me, i'm too young to properly remember but after looking into this i've concluded that best 3d audio was in 90s (before creative labs patent-trolled aureal semiconductor). (maybe i already ranted about this).
1582131;1481560273;mircea_popescu;aha. "servo".
1582132;1481560273;Framedragger;so sad :(
1582133;1481560298;asciilifeform;http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-Air-Force-Pilot-MiG-23-Cockpit-Control-Column-Joystick-Stick-Grip-Yoke-/322073122808 << example of what you get if you buy 'mig stick'
1582134;1481560303;asciilifeform;it's a.... stick.
1582135;1481560312;asciilifeform;looks almost like something from a plumber's junk pile.
1582136;1481560365;Framedragger;(it's sorta-kinda seeing a revival, with folks doing HRTF etc on bare CPU without need for audio chip accelerated whatever, but i believe there's still a.. niche. for someone whoever realizes that graphics isn't everything, etc.)
1582137;1481560507;asciilifeform;other interesting tidbit about flying-sticks, apparently logitech et al conspired with microshit to have analogue 'gameport' support CUT from win7+. so that folx would be forced to buy chinese usb shitsticks.
1582138;1481560539;mircea_popescu;aha.
1582139;1481560540;asciilifeform;and, notably, the converter boxes don't work for high-end sticks
1582140;1481560545;asciilifeform;because they needed 2-way comms
1582141;1481560547;asciilifeform;to program the buttons
1582142;1481560560;mircea_popescu;and this sort of shit exists because microsoft exists.
1582143;1481560564;asciilifeform;and microshit forbade gameport, as, i quote, 'security risk'
1582144;1481560569;asciilifeform;get that? SECURITY
1582145;1481560569;mircea_popescu;it's in no way different from "usg bans smoking".
1582146;1481560581;Framedragger;wtf, god, who did m$ not conspire with :/
1582147;1481560584;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform right. because usg always says the same thing.
1582148;1481560607;mircea_popescu;Framedragger socialist government is socialist government. you will find all its parts always everywhere it is.
1582149;1481560627;mircea_popescu;there's no "i have a rat infestation but my rats have only the front paws and left ear"
1582150;1481560633;mircea_popescu;a rat is a rat.
1582151;1481560654;asciilifeform;the 2000s were almost ~defined~, microshitwise, by a massive 'purge' where folx were forced to retire peripherals (and, for that matter, whole comps) in PERFECT mechanical condition, to run new winblows
1582152;1481560672;mircea_popescu;it's actually when the true microsoft hatred started.
1582153;1481560687;asciilifeform;eh it was going strong with win95 already
1582154;1481560687;mircea_popescu;before that, it was just this fastidious piece of crap which dumbasses ran to play solitaire
1582155;1481560703;mircea_popescu;then those dumbasses got impregnated, and delivered, and those dumbass offspring run shitsoup to play unicode.
1582156;1481560706;asciilifeform;'your computer is dead, it was once so alive, do you regret installing windows 95!!'
1582157;1481560811;mircea_popescu;it's also ~when i stopped paying any attention. last time i played games as they came out was 1999/2000
1582158;1481560828;asciilifeform;same !
1582159;1481560906;asciilifeform;there's an outfit called 'thrustmaster', well-known name in game controllers, that made a princely joystick in 1990s, 'f-22'. it was used in 'adult' simulators, the kind where one studies for exams, where you literally can hang upside down in gigantic barrel, etc. and guess what, there is no way to make it work with win7+ short of replacing entire internal guts.
1582160;1481560943;asciilifeform;so the hilarious bit, thrustmaster made a 're-edition', for something like 500 usd, that externally looked great (made of iron, etc) but inside -- 100% chinese plastic rubbish
1582161;1481560958;asciilifeform;falls apart if you so much as say unkind word to it...
1582162;1481560968;asciilifeform;they 'went apple'.
1582163;1481561343;asciilifeform;(re: the 'gigantic barrel' flight sims: there is actually an arcade of these at the american national airplane museum in washington, it's fiddybux for 5min. and worth every penny)
1582164;1481561647;Framedragger;sounds pretty awesome.
1582165;1481561793;asciilifeform;!~later tell adlai that page won't update until your crate ships
1582166;1481561793;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1582167;1481565202;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/fake-news-today-wapo-works-to-undermine-trump-election-with-unsourced-assertions/ << Qntra - Fake News Today: WaPo Works To Undermine Trump Election With Unsourced Assertions
1582168;1481567932;BingoBoingo;https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/08/heroin-bags-of-cash-the-cia/
1582169;1481568881;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=454
1582170;1481569801;BingoBoingo;http://oglaf.com/groundwater/
1582171;1481569862;mircea_popescu;heh
1582172;1481571297;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: please to uneat mah qntra comment
1582173;1481571759;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: cia & co. (i.e. ACTUAL usg) dealing dope, is old ooooold noose
1582174;1481571780;asciilifeform;(and no, the figurehead officials, with their aol email accts, etc., don't have to be 'in' on it, wtf)
1582175;1481571940;asciilifeform;the mother of all 'unhappenings', it has been known to anyone who gives half a shit, with all the proof you could possibly ask for from a mafia op where 'talkative' folks with hard proof get plugged immediately -- and still 'never happened.'
1582176;1481571950;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: should solidify the evidence that dope dealing is a great financier of the cash variety
1582177;1481571955;asciilifeform;noshit.jpg
1582178;1481571968;asciilifeform;if instead the money were in illicit nintendo cartridges -- they'd deal those.
1582179;1481572001;asciilifeform;it's the ~only reason usg bothers to ban dope
1582180;1481572006;thestringpuller;well you could deal sneakers...but the market depth isn't very large
1582181;1481572008;asciilifeform;(cash cow -- would otherwise vanish.)
1582182;1481572018;asciilifeform;there are no cia jets full of aspirin.
1582183;1481572057;thestringpuller;well the morphine and cocaine markets are more of a smuggling game......
1582184;1481572074;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Sure, but interesting window into historic scale
1582185;1481572166;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: ty saved
1582186;1481572213;pete_dushenski;any idea why scarfed ? trilema links should be kosher
1582187;1481572279;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Not yet, will take apart later. Perhaps it is the mispellings, however funny. Illiteracy is popular among spamzors.
1582188;1481572290;thestringpuller;damn this reminds me of that frank lucas shit
1582189;1481572305;thestringpuller;Smuggling dope in coffins from Vietnam.
1582190;1481572343;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform certainly happened, usg is primarily known as a drug dealing criminal organisation.
1582191;1481572369;asciilifeform;when you cut away the noise, it's little else
1582192;1481572383;asciilifeform;quite possible where most of its 'hard' currency came from
1582193;1481572397;thestringpuller;mod6: "How a nigga gonna stay drug free, when Georgia Power won't give a nigga lights free"
1582194;1481572405;mircea_popescu;at least back in the day when it was called "british empire".
1582195;1481572417;asciilifeform;aha, was about to mention opiumwar
1582196;1481572821;mats;white people have moved from enslaving a generation of chinese males with opium to ...
1582197;1481572829;mats;enslaving a generation of white males with opium
1582198;1481572847;mats;progress.
1582199;1481572894;asciilifeform;mats: aha, see the mega-piece re 'autocolonization',
1582200;1481572900;asciilifeform;!#s the answer lies in the sewers
1582201;1481572901;a111;13 results for "the answer lies in the sewers", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=the%20answer%20lies%20in%20the%20sewers
1582202;1481572923;asciilifeform;spain lost its colonies, and autoimmunologically devoured itself, was the thesis.
1582203;1481572929;pete_dushenski;thus all the fuss about fentanyl, which runs along the lines of "it's so potent and so profitable and killing all our youfs!", behind which the obvious inference is that only the state should be profiting and killing youths.
1582204;1481572931;asciilifeform;and it happened quickly enough to be visible to naked eye
1582205;1481572999;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: the reason why crackdowns on 'prescription dope' is that it is not feeding hard currency to lizards, but fiatola to variably-connected fiatolists
1582206;1481573200;pete_dushenski;it's branded as 'evil chinese opiod flooding in from kongkouver port' around here. so like reverse opium warz, ie. non-round eyes fiatolistas are profiting and this is a Bad Thing.
1582207;1481573222;asciilifeform;well yes, that treatment is reserved for ru
1582208;1481573224;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581952 << ircbot and logbot don't actually depend on each other in V sense, so there's not much i can do about it (unless i'm missing the issue)
1582209;1481573224;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 04:43 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581929 << http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot not to make more work for you, but the smooshing of ircbot and logbot apparently hosed your pre-graph catment
1582210;1481573233;asciilifeform;which is why usg fought the afghan war
1582211;1481573238;asciilifeform;-- to keep corridor open.
1582212;1481573270;asciilifeform;(and the poppies -- growing. recall, were they growing in 2001 ?)
1582213;1481573334;mircea_popescu;sure they were. from afghanistan to vietnam, all through.
1582214;1481573336;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Afghanistan_opium_poppy_cultivation_1994-2007b.PNG/400px-Afghanistan_opium_poppy_cultivation_1994-2007b.PNG
1582215;1481573372;pete_dushenski;2001 was a dismal year for opium exports from afghanistan
1582216;1481573391;asciilifeform;talibs banned poppy.
1582217;1481573398;pete_dushenski;gwbush... fixed.
1582218;1481573399;asciilifeform;then democratizers came and unbanned.
1582219;1481573401;asciilifeform;aha.
1582220;1481573409;mircea_popescu;i recall they had a bumper crop right ?
1582221;1481573410;mircea_popescu;hm.
1582222;1481573455;asciilifeform;incidentally heroin was ~unknown in su before '90s maggotization.
1582223;1481573478;mircea_popescu;yeah, turns out they tried to do an "arab oil shock", didn't work out
1582224;1481573546;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582015 << i actually tried one of those against the svg, and without netlist knowledge it gets funky (edges don't properly touch nodes, because rounding)
1582225;1481573546;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 14:25 asciilifeform: discretized the floats, round the thicknesses to 2 places, etc
1582226;1481573577;asciilifeform;phf: aha, it is not as simple as simply throwing away 'after 3rd decimal place' or the like.
1582227;1481573580;asciilifeform;they gotta line up.
1582228;1481573610;phf;but notably colorforth CAD that chuck moore wrote is all discrete units for these very reasons (there's a writeup somewhere in the CF pile)
1582229;1481573623;asciilifeform;there are sane ways to do vector graphics
1582230;1481573635;asciilifeform;i.e. pointedly NOT involving coordinate values specified at all !
1582231;1481573639;asciilifeform;but only topology.
1582232;1481573651;asciilifeform;i linked to henderson's paper here long ago
1582233;1481573665;asciilifeform;and iirc clim has something of the kind (though i am the very last who would know the detail)
1582234;1481573688;mircea_popescu;myeah, there is that.
1582235;1481573841;asciilifeform;let's approach the problem bottom-up, as gedankenexperiment. it is np-complete problem to draw a polished, readable schematic from netlist only. what, therefore, is the minimal 'helping hand' that would let the machine draw schematic from netlist in polynomial time. that is the necessary format, and nothing else.
1582236;1481573850;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582064 << google search results are being rolled into "fake news" with calls for moar security
1582237;1481573850;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 15:18 asciilifeform: then i suppose the rot - continues. rotten, maggoty google is still the closest thing i know of to working search engine for www...
1582238;1481573877;asciilifeform;phf: unsurprisingly. and the eventual model is chinese google
1582239;1481573897;asciilifeform;it still won't make sane search engine materialize out of the aether.
1582240;1481574044;asciilifeform;i will admit to having serious doubts that building 'like google in 2001, and stays that way!111' is technologically possible -- it is an inherently centralized animal and will grow usg barnacles regardless of who builds it or where it is kept
1582241;1481574069;phf;minimal helping hand is the kind of stuff you would manually do to an autorouted schematic, i.e. explicit xy placement for some of the components. algo can simply unpin each component in order and see if autolayout still results in same placement, in which case the explicit coordinate is unnecessary
1582242;1481574098;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform very possible dawg, just wot-index the web.
1582243;1481574108;mircea_popescu;nevermind "pr", compute l-distance
1582244;1481574111;asciilifeform;phf: this is correct, but i will point out that schematic is easier problem than pcb -- schematic traces take up 0 space, and the crossing penalty is merely aesthetic rather than physical
1582245;1481574121;mircea_popescu;stuff that wasn't linked by anyone linked by anyone in l doesn't exist anyway.
1582246;1481574131;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the problem is that THEY get it from search !
1582247;1481574138;asciilifeform;fuckgoats is made of motherfucking search!
1582248;1481574139;mircea_popescu;(conversely : search is a political tool, nothing else. "i just want to" jwz doesn't exist in practice)
1582249;1481574140;asciilifeform;phuctor also!
1582250;1481574156;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so you use google.
1582251;1481574160;asciilifeform;heathendom is where chip vendors, cad vendors, 1,000,001 things, live.
1582252;1481574174;mircea_popescu;i've long ago decided stuff isn't going to be built to satisfy you ; but over your hairpulling objections.
1582253;1481574178;trinque;itt alf shouts things we all know
1582254;1481574179;phf;asciilifeform: in the worst case is there more required than a w/h for each defcomponent, x/y for each make-instance component and (list (x y) ...) for eah make-instance route?
1582255;1481574180;asciilifeform;if someone wants to show me a parallel world where they are all in my wot -- i'm all ears
1582256;1481574181;asciilifeform;and eyes.
1582257;1481574197;mircea_popescu;nobody wants anything. the google i use will be l-distance based and that's all.
1582258;1481574218;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you , in particular, could probably quite easily 'go knuth' or rms and use the net via courier.
1582259;1481574220;trinque;there was a thread on how to approach the search problem, awaiting some intrepid guy yet.
1582260;1481574222;asciilifeform;and not even notice much diff.
1582261;1481574228;mircea_popescu;not even the point.
1582262;1481574242;mircea_popescu;the point is - features do not appear TO satisfy. they appear BECAUSE we can.
1582263;1481574245;mircea_popescu;that's the whole matter.
1582264;1481574272;mircea_popescu;if you can use l-distance search, good for you. if you can't, use google. if you can't, you're fucked.
1582265;1481574282;asciilifeform;that being said, some reasonaby standard way for wot folk to offer one another search of ~own~ wwwtron -- would be spiffy imho
1582266;1481574300;mircea_popescu;we're going towards it, what with the slowly growing log processing.
1582267;1481574306;mircea_popescu;currently we're de facto saving all named pages.
1582268;1481574341;phf;asciilifeform: this goes back to the books thread we had long time ago. in-wot solution should exist and be up to tmsr standards. but if you're going to search for books in irradiated library ruins you just have to accept that you have to wear a hazmat and that you might get raped by feral locals.
1582269;1481574349;asciilifeform;one of the things i would like to do in phuctor (when?? in peacetime...?) is to actually sort the mods by levenshtein distance
1582270;1481574362;asciilifeform;and get subsequence search
1582271;1481574364;mircea_popescu;not a meritless idea, that.
1582272;1481574374;mircea_popescu;at least do all midspaces etc
1582273;1481574386;asciilifeform;betcha i could finally demolish the 'dark matter' of weak-but-not-popped (by birthday-theorem) mods etc.
1582274;1481574399;mircea_popescu;at least take bite out of it.
1582275;1481574435;asciilifeform;and yes, phf has it
1582276;1481574450;trinque;pg does that.
1582277;1481574456;trinque;iirc asciilifeform is using pg.
1582278;1481574457;mircea_popescu;he just restated what i said lol.
1582279;1481574470;asciilifeform;a very limited (functionally) BUT fully tmsrtronic fallback for imperial crapolade -- is the ticket.
1582280;1481574476;trinque;https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/fuzzystrmatch.html <<
1582281;1481574490;asciilifeform;trinque: no good, at least not as such, they are stored as strings of decimal digits.
1582282;1481574531;asciilifeform;!#s doomed to rewrite
1582283;1481574532;a111;3 results for "doomed to rewrite", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=doomed%20to%20rewrite
1582284;1481574546;trinque;whole world is doomed to be rewritten.
1582285;1481574556;trinque;and again.
1582286;1481574587;mircea_popescu;anyway. this whole "google finds thing" is very much of the nature of "i couldn't get dxf to print ON ANYTHING svg conversion IS IMPOSSIBLE" etc.
1582287;1481574600;mircea_popescu;alf fictitious world built out of alf confusing his habit with teh werld.
1582288;1481574617;asciilifeform;it is made of the duct tape i have, not the duct tape i wish i had
1582289;1481574619;asciilifeform;or how did it go.
1582290;1481574628;trinque;you sink with the littoral you have
1582291;1481574636;mircea_popescu;yeh, i get it, it "works for you". very good, but very irrelevant also.
1582292;1481574643;asciilifeform;trinque: ...not the titanic you wish you had!
1582293;1481574647;trinque;lel
1582294;1481574648;mircea_popescu;continue with what worx!
1582295;1481574670;mircea_popescu;back to the much more interesting thing of "minimal helping hand" :
1582296;1481574701;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582124 << the best home planetarium mahcine is a toy made by nintendo in the 90s for going ~~$2000 "why you need a pinhole sky projection, when you have ipad???11"
1582297;1481574701;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 16:28 asciilifeform: oh in re: 'golden 1990s': i recently contemplated making a game-playing box to 'unwind' with, and looked into where to get a decent flying-joystick. and apparently the best ones were made in 1990s, and today sought after, and rare...
1582298;1481574704;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there is a related and important (to rsa) mathematical problem, of 'how many bits of modulus give your guaranteed polynomial factoring'
1582299;1481574719;mircea_popescu;what exactly is the source of complexity in all this ?
1582300;1481574728;asciilifeform;phf: i had very spiffy planetarium for msdos, but sadly forgot what it was called
1582301;1481574741;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's an elementary case of travelling salesman
1582302;1481574744;mircea_popescu;i mean... we pay $$$ to generate rng. how did the computer generate 5mb to pad what alf declares "minuscle" ?
1582303;1481574750;asciilifeform;crossing lines make for a turdalicious schematic
1582304;1481574760;asciilifeform;so you want to lay the lines so min cross.
1582305;1481574801;asciilifeform;(think, recall children's game of 'help the mouse find the cheese' ? that's what a shit schematic looks like)
1582306;1481574803;phf;asciilifeform: going back to my previous question though
1582307;1481574803;mircea_popescu;no i get that part.
1582308;1481574829;asciilifeform;phf: which?
1582309;1481574836;mircea_popescu;<phf> asciilifeform: in the worst case is there more required than a w/h for each defcomponent, x/y for each make-instance component and (list (x y) ...) for eah make-instance route? <
1582310;1481574883;asciilifeform;ah i missed
1582311;1481574926;asciilifeform;phf, mircea_popescu : that's aaaalmost all of it. you also need, in especially large schematics, to collapse buses into single, thick lines (in 'eagle', normally blue, but it does not matter, so long as distinct) and the leadouts from said buses are normal nets, which are marked.
1582312;1481574945;phf;to make a pcb out of a netlist, at worst case you need w/h of component, x/y placement of component, a list of x/y coords for each route (to indicate turns)? or there's something that i'm missing?
1582313;1481574951;asciilifeform;(nobody wants to look at a 128bit bus as motherfucking 128 lines running in parallel!!!)
1582314;1481574970;mircea_popescu;busses convention, yes.
1582315;1481574974;asciilifeform;phf: pcb has track thicknesses, and also meanders (tracks whose shape is hard-specified)
1582316;1481574979;asciilifeform;it also has vias
1582317;1481574988;asciilifeform;vias connect 2 or more layers together.
1582318;1481574995;asciilifeform;(and can also vary in shape)
1582319;1481574999;asciilifeform;likewise holes exist.
1582320;1481575019;asciilifeform;there are several hundred common sizes of drill.
1582321;1481575058;mircea_popescu;none of this is looking terrible so far.
1582322;1481575066;asciilifeform;it isn't impossible !
1582323;1481575068;mircea_popescu;basically what he said + 3 specific elements (bus, via, hole)
1582324;1481575069;asciilifeform;just arduous
1582325;1481575079;asciilifeform;generally i dun deal with impossibles.
1582326;1481575132;asciilifeform;to give some vague idea of complexity, 'eagle cad' is of about ~same binary mass as trb.
1582327;1481575139;phf;a bus is a track (what i called route) that's reused by multiple components , and if track has coordinates for meanders and thickness you're there
1582328;1481575140;asciilifeform;(was written in cpp.)
1582329;1481575157;asciilifeform;phf: tracks also have variable geometry of turn
1582330;1481575161;asciilifeform;(this is not optional)
1582331;1481575177;asciilifeform;the problem is not so distinct from vector graphics in general.
1582332;1481575186;asciilifeform;(and, on silkscreen side of things , in fact reduces directly to it )
1582333;1481575187;phf;right, you kind of run into the fact that you have to have a set of CAD primitives underneath :/
1582334;1481575207;asciilifeform;copper on pcb is only ~slightly~ narrrowed subset of possible vector drawing.
1582335;1481575224;mircea_popescu;unrelatedly and i guess unhelpfully, i'm wondering if once specified as above, you don't also get a router for cheap (through implementing a sort of physics where routes attract each other and are repulsed by things etc)
1582336;1481575236;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i experimented with this personally
1582337;1481575243;asciilifeform;it is a concept from molecular dynamics sims
1582338;1481575245;asciilifeform;'relaxation'
1582339;1481575263;phf;that approach to routing is also described in SCHEME81 paper
1582340;1481575264;asciilifeform;from what i can tell, 'eagle' actually used a similar algo in their (surprisingly good) autoroute.
1582341;1481575267;mircea_popescu;and MOTHERFUCKING IDIOTS in this world! why the FUCK did argentina have to make "its own" power plug scheme, and for that matter why the fruck does usb exist! there are two types of connectors in this world - those who you can plug not looking and those who, no matter what you do, you CAN NOT plug not looking at them!
1582342;1481575277;mircea_popescu;WHO DARES make the latter sort! ever! GAH!
1582343;1481575277;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they use australian plug iirc
1582344;1481575285;mircea_popescu;they use their ugly mother's cunts is what they use.
1582345;1481575300;asciilifeform;at least asciilifeform went there with australia adapter, and.. it fit
1582346;1481575306;mircea_popescu;eu style plug with the rounded prongs slides in by itself. this inept lamellar bs does not
1582347;1481575312;asciilifeform;(oddly enough, the hotel sockets ALSO fit ru plug !!)
1582348;1481575328;asciilifeform;i had a ru plug, left over in bag from trip to ro, and it fit !
1582349;1481575330;asciilifeform;220v too.
1582350;1481575387;mircea_popescu;idiots.
1582351;1481575498;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'new usb' is symmetric but i suppose it is too-late.
1582352;1481575521;asciilifeform;(usb per se has absolutely imho lethal problems but i would count the horrid plug dead last on the list of these)
1582353;1481575621;phf;(in random luls, since btcbase doesn't track renames for the longest time i thought that we had an actual "oglafbot" running. i saw BingoBoingo post an update a few times and wondered "what happened to oglafbot")
1582354;1481575795;mircea_popescu;lol!
1582355;1481575804;mircea_popescu;this is functioning as intended.
1582356;1481575866;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha exactly, relaxation
1582357;1481576816;mircea_popescu;anyway, symmetry isn't even it. must be ~self-guiding~.
1582358;1481578726;phf;emacs now has concurrency!11 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-12/msg00378.html there aren't many details on what it's going to do but there's at least one review article that's going "wtf" http://www.lunaryorn.com/posts/a-blast-from-the-past-the-tale-of-concurrency-in-emacs.html
1582359;1481578802;phf;i'm curious about this accelerated rate of emacs shittification. it's like there's new of some or other modernization every other week
1582360;1481578863;mircea_popescu;phf the "now has!" "it's not clear what the thing it "has" is GOING TO do" is already 100% graham-retardation
1582361;1481579026;phf;representative zaretskis delivering on election promises of догоним и перегоним
1582362;1481579056;mircea_popescu;in other news i got everything working : mm6, 7, planescape torment, the works.
1582363;1481579076;trinque;the fuck is emacs going to do with *entirely blocking* threads ?
1582364;1481579091;phf;25% increase in yield since last year! all participant developers are awarded national medal of yield increasing worker initiative!
1582365;1481581782;asciilifeform;'There’s unanimous agreement that Emacs needs better support for concurrency, and indeed over the last few years Tom Tromey (of ELPA fame) and others worked ....' << orly, unanimous
1582366;1481581787;asciilifeform;i dun recall anybody asking me
1582367;1481581790;asciilifeform;anybody ask you, phf ?
1582368;1481581793;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu ?
1582369;1481581795;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes ?
1582370;1481581798;asciilifeform;et al ?
1582371;1481581819;asciilifeform;and elpa! l0l! the 'your shitplugin has 1,001 shitdeps' repo!
1582372;1481581941;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582363 << same thing threads were supposed to achieve in bitcoin. idiot unix supplies such worthless nonblocking i/o system that threads in unix proggies (discounting actual number crunchers) exist largely so that they can sit, sadly, waiting for blocking i/o...
1582373;1481581941;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 21:44 trinque: the fuck is emacs going to do with *entirely blocking* threads ?
1582374;1481582089;trinque;yeah I know, the "gevent" model, or javascript XHR for another shining example
1582375;1481582134;trinque;emacs already has async external processes
1582376;1481582151;trinque;dunno what else will be feeding my emacs tons of IO
1582377;1481582189;asciilifeform;possibly no one will believe me, but unlike most 'ideological' emacsists, i do not abuse it as irc client / wwwtron / reactor controller / etc
1582378;1481582198;asciilifeform;so i never had this 'problem'.
1582379;1481582227;asciilifeform;(even as text editor, i use it RELUCTANTLY, because there is literally no functional alternative for the sorts of things that i edit)
1582380;1481582244;asciilifeform;it is an abominable editor, except when compared to the others.
1582381;1481582288;trinque;abominable window manager too, except idem
1582382;1481582305;*;trinque is guilty of living in emacs, but does not need this pretend concurrency
1582383;1481582313;asciilifeform;re wm, idk, i like ratpoison
1582384;1481582329;asciilifeform;so far every alternative i've tried, incl. the author's later works, fell short.
1582385;1481582362;asciilifeform;i dun need a 500MB process for keeping track of motherfucking windows.
1582386;1481582367;asciilifeform;esp. since they ~never move
1582387;1481583000;mircea_popescu;well i don't much use emacs so. it must be why.
1582388;1481583057;ben_vulpes;antpool again with the weirdo block size variance
1582389;1481583159;*;mircea_popescu has been playing planescape wiff gurl, cares not of the troubles of this world from his cloud o' bliss
1582390;1481583205;asciilifeform;the paper planescape?!
1582391;1481583208;asciilifeform;or torment
1582392;1481583605;mircea_popescu;torment
1582393;1481583645;asciilifeform;aaaah
1582394;1481584011;*;asciilifeform is testing FUCKGOATSen
1582395;1481584647;mircea_popescu;any shitty ones ?
1582396;1481589051;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582084 << i was just thining about the happy accident that is mimisbrunnr spewing noise into the google hole
1582397;1481589051;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 15:26 mircea_popescu: inbcidentally asciilifeform as per that discussion of how much it costs to index etc, phuctor is a total google poison.
1582398;1481589136;ben_vulpes;and how it needs moar cross referencing links obvs
1582399;1481590087;mircea_popescu;aha
1582400;1481590338;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no duds so far.
1582401;1481590383;mircea_popescu;nice
1582402;1481591113;asciilifeform;http://goodmath.scientopia.org/2010/11/30/the-glorious-horror-of-teco << in other emacsisms.
1582403;1481591168;asciilifeform;'A language designed to live in the paper-tape world had to have some major constraints. First, paper tape is slow. Really slow. And punching tape is a miserable process. So you really wanted to keep things as short as possible. So the syntax of TECO is, to put it mildly, absolutely mind-boggling. Every character is a command. And I don't mean "every punctuation character", or "every letter". Every character is a command. Letters, nu
1582404;1481591168;asciilifeform;mbers, punctuation, line feeds, control characters... Everything. But despite the utterly cryptic nature of it, it was good. It was very good. ...'
1582405;1481591219;ben_vulpes;mmm, classic
1582406;1481591258;asciilifeform;apparently i somehow built this again.
1582407;1481591266;asciilifeform;i suppose idea is fairly obvious.
1582408;1481591430;asciilifeform;though, reading the manual ( http://www.copters.com/teco.html ) it was apparently quite complicated, so perhaps -- not.
1582409;1481591761;asciilifeform;http://www.finseth.com/craft << the actual megaclassic of the subj. i have it in dead tree, and did not know it were on www in proper text...
1582410;1481591767;asciilifeform;^ worth keeping
1582411;1481591783;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes et al ^
1582412;1481591854;ben_vulpes;nifty
1582413;1481592922;ben_vulpes;i swear that apple is varying the time at which it presents its "are you ready to upgrade now?" modal to me
1582414;1481592955;ben_vulpes;('ooh it's 530 on a weekday and he's at the place where he last consented to upgrade xcode. maybe he's sauced enough to say yes this time!')
1582415;1481592966;ben_vulpes;NO FUCKERS
1582416;1481594342;ben_vulpes;https://github.com/tiimgreen/github-cheat-sheet#ignore-whitespace << because what i want is a diff program that doesn't show the whole diff
1582417;1481594349;ben_vulpes;in other "shit rubros say"
1582418;1481596333;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: have you thought about firewalling off the crapple upgrade servers ?
1582419;1481596341;asciilifeform;it works for microshit boxen
1582420;1481596429;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582413 << they don't show it to me on 10.9, possibly because i'm now a heathen beyond redemption
1582421;1481596429;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 01:35 ben_vulpes: i swear that apple is varying the time at which it presents its "are you ready to upgrade now?" modal to me
1582422;1481596585;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582407 <<  i tried living in TECO at some point (they way i've done with a bunch of other text editors, like acme) and it was beyond even my patience. it's definitely an emacsism in a sense of "this part makes no sense, but that's how the elders did it, so stfu"
1582423;1481596585;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 01:07 asciilifeform: i suppose idea is fairly obvious.
1582424;1481596624;ben_vulpes;10.9 heathen beyond redemption utterlol
1582425;1481596631;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: have not
1582426;1481596639;ben_vulpes;will consider
1582427;1481604467;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582380 <<< what did you dislike about vim?
1582428;1481604467;a111;Logged on 2016-12-12 22:37 asciilifeform: it is an abominable editor, except when compared to the others.
1582429;1481604718;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582427 << no SLIME
1582430;1481604718;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 04:47 davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582380 <<< what did you dislike about vim?
1582431;1481604772;asciilifeform;and no decade+ of my elisp (e.g., hungry-arrows, why the FUCK should it take me >1 keypress to move across whitespace), etc
1582432;1481604821;asciilifeform;no autoindent, no paren matching, fuck, what ~does~ it have
1582433;1481604858;asciilifeform;i also fucking ~loathe~ modal editors
1582434;1481604899;*;mircea_popescu saw this coming.
1582435;1481604913;asciilifeform;i might like vi more if it weren't also associated in my head with the years i toiled as a sysadmin slave...
1582436;1481604951;asciilifeform;if stuck on a box on mars with no civilized editors, i'd sooner use 'nano'
1582437;1481604965;asciilifeform;(pico, etc)
1582438;1481604983;davout;aha
1582439;1481605029;asciilifeform;that being said, 'hell is other people's' elisp...
1582440;1481605075;davout;if you're using more than a keystroke to move accross whitespace, or don't have auto-indent you're misusing it, but yeah, just curious. not trying to sell anything here
1582441;1481605124;asciilifeform;autoindent is intensely language-specific
1582442;1481605173;asciilifeform;incidentally iirc someone wrote somethign vaguely like slime for vi, someone with stronger stomach than i oughta try it, see...
1582443;1481605186;davout;some come built-in i think, some others you have to inoculate
1582444;1481605283;asciilifeform;davout: while you're awake i gotta ask, unrelatedly, re earlier thread! are decent joysticks for flight sims extinct? you're just the fella to know the answer
1582445;1481605349;davout;i don't flightsim
1582446;1481605448;davout;i tried a couple of times, which all ended in "wtf is this?!"
1582447;1481605609;BingoBoingo;!~b2
1582448;1481605610;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Error: "b2" is not a valid command.
1582449;1481606422;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1582450;1481606441;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 774.44, vol: 4525.67234621 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 768.26, vol: 4443.87892 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 775.13, vol: 8920.65795881 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 786.921471, vol: 3406782.80100000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 775.57, vol: 1295.08062686 | Volume-weighted last average: 786.845782871
1582451;1481607433;asciilifeform;this actually makes sense:
1582452;1481607449;asciilifeform;i imagine that flight sim for davout would be like if mircea_popescu fucked a hole drilled in an old tree
1582453;1481609672;davout;asciilifeform: why'd you want simming anyway? go to your local airport and get a couple hours, flying is cheap in the US
1582454;1481612921;ben_vulpes;"fly from bed!"
1582455;1481612975;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: clojure folks have a variant of this, "fireplace"
1582456;1481612986;davout;missing "sleep ad lib." required dependency
1582457;1481625594;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, i know where he's coming from. all the kids excited about counterstrike gave me about the same impression originaly
1582458;1481625601;mircea_popescu;"o, it's realistic ? dude, really ?"
1582459;1481626461;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582433 << you know z80 editor was modal. caps shift an' symbol shift beotch!!1
1582460;1481626461;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 04:54 asciilifeform: i also fucking ~loathe~ modal editors
1582461;1481626612;mircea_popescu;and speaking of routing, holy shit was the zx board a nightmare.
1582462;1481626873;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582453 << he makes an excellent point. sign up for a class, you get someone to be there with you who can actually fly the thing, and also get to fuck with the controls. best of both worlds, and it's very much in the $50 for 5 minutes range, just gotta commit to a few hours' worth.
1582463;1481626873;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 06:14 davout: asciilifeform: why'd you want simming anyway? go to your local airport and get a couple hours, flying is cheap in the US
1582464;1481626886;mircea_popescu;but if you think one's worth every penny, you prolly think the other's worth every penny too.
1582465;1481628905;Framedragger;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161211/#7
1582466;1481628906;scriba;Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
1582467;1481628907;scriba;Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x93 in position 8122: invalid start byte]
1582468;1481628916;Framedragger;oh ffs. sec.
1582469;1481628924;Framedragger;(also removing debug log)
1582470;1481629015;mircea_popescu;!!key usman
1582471;1481629016;deedbot;No such key.
1582472;1481629031;Framedragger;test with new log reader http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161211/#7 test
1582473;1481629031;scriba;Logged on 2016-12-11: [01:15:36] <mats> i was remorseful, things change
1582474;1481629041;Framedragger;^ ok, finally fixed. took forever. >.<
1582475;1481629074;Framedragger;phf: thanks for pointing me in the right direction. scriba now reads log as byte sequence, tries decoding each line as utf-8, if that fails, then does latin-1. seems to be fine.
1582476;1481629087;mircea_popescu;nice Framedragger
1582477;1481629099;Framedragger;encoding, fml
1582478;1481629104;mircea_popescu;heh
1582479;1481629106;Framedragger;good education tho
1582480;1481630756;mircea_popescu;!!key usman
1582481;1481630758;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/VilKx/?raw=true
1582482;1481631619;Framedragger;!#s postgrest
1582483;1481631619;a111;5 results for "postgrest", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=postgrest
1582484;1481631657;Framedragger;^ just discovered this. "remove the CRUD", serve APIs directly from postgres. includes user/role/cookie management etc. pretty neat.
1582485;1481631708;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-11#1197431 << :(
1582486;1481631708;a111;Logged on 2015-07-11 02:26 trinque: becoming a features katamari shitshow
1582487;1481631744;mircea_popescu;sql-to-api thing is actually not half a bad idea.
1582488;1481631755;trinque;very useful thing.
1582489;1481631757;mircea_popescu;mysql for isntance tries with their permissions model, but it's crud.
1582490;1481631768;trinque;it just needs to be written by someone with a brain.
1582491;1481631780;mircea_popescu;and afaik not one actually includes proper metering
1582492;1481631784;trinque;emphatically not as "lets translate SQL to whatever a URL is allowed to do"
1582493;1481631792;mircea_popescu;ie, can i allocate up to 0.1s /day per user ?
1582494;1481631794;Framedragger;does postgrest still use 'basic auth'? :/
1582495;1481631821;Framedragger;that kind of metering would be neat to have..
1582496;1481631858;mircea_popescu;trinque incidentally, auth should be handled via rsa. user passes api two variables : one is a request encrypted to its key ; the other is the request + a server-provided salt hashed.
1582497;1481631872;mircea_popescu;this allows server to allocate all requests to hashes, and that's the "username"
1582498;1481631896;mircea_popescu;then just keep a master table of allowed hashes and their usage.
1582499;1481631908;mircea_popescu;AND whether they may acquire locks ; and how often. etc.
1582500;1481631917;mircea_popescu;(ie, who says all users can acquire locks ?)
1582501;1481631977;Framedragger;as long as the 'check hash' operation is quick enough, otherwise DoS magnet (that's a very alf'y comment i guess)
1582502;1481632021;mircea_popescu;i guess you ip-whitelist if it gets bad.
1582503;1481632048;trinque;doubtful check hash is going to be a significant proportion of "run query" for a reasonably large query
1582504;1481632062;mircea_popescu;and on this model, you can expose all the dbs directly.
1582505;1481632076;trinque;this whole thing actually describes something I have been working on for quite some time.
1582506;1481632081;mircea_popescu;"you want access to X data store ? ask Y for a salt ; see api docs here"
1582507;1481632106;trinque;not nearly done, nor fully conceptualized
1582508;1481632117;mircea_popescu;no more of this should it be json or sexpr and pass via urls bs
1582509;1481632118;trinque;but it is what the web *ought* to have been made atop
1582510;1481632123;mircea_popescu;yes.
1582511;1481632137;Framedragger;ah yeah, i recall you mentioning 'sql explorer' (for phuctor data iirc) trinque. ambitious but delicious project
1582512;1481632151;mircea_popescu;#tmsr-parc
1582513;1481632169;mircea_popescu;all ur ideaz r belong.
1582514;1481632221;jurov;asciilifeform: slime for vim is named slimv, i have tried it and it had almost all the functionality of emacs one... when it worked :( needs more eyeballs.
1582515;1481632262;trinque;Framedragger: problem is that SQL was designed by cancerous fags just like Python.
1582516;1481632267;mircea_popescu;well by the time the libtards are done fucking emacs, it'll work better than it anyway.
1582517;1481632275;jurov;since the vim plugin is written in python, one needs to be wizard in both py and lisp to fix it
1582518;1481632302;mircea_popescu;lol wait wait. c-implementation of lisp glued to vim via python ?
1582519;1481632314;mircea_popescu;can i put in a feature request at this juncture ?
1582520;1481632320;jurov;it's not implementation of lisp
1582521;1481632333;jurov;just an debugger using slime protocol
1582522;1481632339;mircea_popescu;ah
1582523;1481632340;Framedragger;i'd actually like to see a coherent and all-in-one-place SQL / RDBMS-as-a-general-model critique some time. maybe it exists. usually it's mongodb hipsters complaining randomly, so i'd developed a (too-)generic "ignore 'em all" filter :p
1582524;1481632343;trinque;which brings me to my next point: no fucking seams in the internet db thing.
1582525;1481632359;trinque;Framedragger: they are not equivalent
1582526;1481632368;trinque;SQL was an "end user programming" idiocy, python idem
1582527;1481632371;mircea_popescu;Framedragger afaik trinque is a great afficionado of the whole "db everything"
1582528;1481632405;Framedragger;trinque: right right, so you're talking about SQL as a language, fair enough
1582529;1481632411;mircea_popescu;jurov pity, because i'd have asked for "all strings are unicode strings". should have fixed it right and proper.
1582530;1481632469;trinque;Framedragger: I'll give you a morsel to chew while I make coffee
1582531;1481632500;trinque;why the fuck can't I name and reuse "joins" in SQL ?
1582532;1481632514;mircea_popescu;iirc you can via temporary tables neh ?
1582533;1481632553;trinque;you can create views, yes, but relationships aren't separate, defined things you can invoke at will
1582534;1481632561;Framedragger;can materialized views use joins in the way you want to? i haven't looked into them for some time, so dunno.
1582535;1481632562;trinque;you make the view customers_with_addresses_and_ratings
1582536;1481632575;trinque;rather than  "select customers with addresses, ratings"
1582537;1481632580;mircea_popescu;well maybe not that far, but yes, materialized views
1582538;1481632702;trinque;Framedragger: my criticism is that I specify what constitutes the relationship between customers and addresses each time I use the relationship.
1582539;1481632732;trinque;and this is given as a general whiff of endless haphazardness in SQL
1582540;1481632734;Framedragger;aha right, you sort of define it upon every use, which sucks balls and is an example of stupid inflexibility
1582541;1481632749;trinque;makes traversing lots of relationships at once harder to fit in head
1582542;1481632772;Framedragger;yeah, aliasing is an important mental-compression operation. i see what you mean
1582543;1481632789;Framedragger;(there's lack of general flexibility, it's full of baked-in developer-choices so to speak, etc.)
1582544;1481632883;trinque;the language was pulled in the direction of "user interface" by some, "programming language" by others, ended up neither.
1582545;1481632965;trinque;see also: https://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e/
1582546;1481633016;trinque;when you try to design for the novice, you must leave essential parts of the problem out, then hope to hide it, inevitably failing.
1582547;1481633092;Framedragger;"there are always leaks." yeah, i mean, no objections i guess.
1582548;1481633145;Framedragger;the "UI/programming-language" juxtaposition is quite apparent when writing pl/pgsql. i dunno, it's a weird feeling.
1582549;1481633391;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't say you must. "when you design for the novice in the sense of trying to lie to them about their inferiority, you are stuck with that lie and it gets ever more expensive to maintain"
1582550;1481633454;trinque;better put, yeah.
1582551;1481633758;mircea_popescu;kinda how the entire modern insanity came about. "oh, people are more productive when they THINK they're good, irrespective of how good they are" "yeah, but telling people who aren't good that they're good convincingly has a cost" "well, what if we try and arbitrage the delta-productivity from the first against the marginal-cost from 2nd ?!" "dude what" "no really, if we made all the tools really shitty ? and mass production
1582552;1481633759;mircea_popescu;? and the corporation ? and government regulation ? and ?" "dude go fuck your mother."
1582553;1481633823;mircea_popescu;possibly the most amply researched stupid idea in the history of human science ; "is there life other than on earth" didn't receive 1% of 1% of the attention.
1582554;1481634292;trinque;if they're only measuring shit by volume, they're going to say great success.
1582555;1481634312;trinque;seems a guy like guido has a particularly bad case of delusional narcissism, too.
1582556;1481634353;trinque;"I can create this smart-guy talisman and bless The People with my disembodied smart."
1582557;1481634403;trinque;idiot I worked for in Portland was always talking about "untapped creativity" in re: end user programming
1582558;1481634647;mircea_popescu;sigh.
1582559;1481634669;mircea_popescu;idiots keep giving new names to "the god who'll give me manna"
1582560;1481638685;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582453 << i can see this pov, 'instead of playing race game for a few hrs, i'ma buy harley and go to the desert and train for 10 years'
1582561;1481638685;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 06:14 davout: asciilifeform: why'd you want simming anyway? go to your local airport and get a couple hours, flying is cheap in the US
1582562;1481638747;Framedragger;asciilifeform: except you're not paying for the full retail price of a harley, and you don't need to train for 10 years? :)
1582563;1481638756;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582456 << i sleep ad lib nao, thus far using it to make s.nsa output solidity rather than getting flattened in esoteric vehicles, but who knows, might go and do the latter also at some point
1582564;1481638756;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 07:09 davout: missing "sleep ad lib." required dependency
1582565;1481638776;asciilifeform;Framedragger: if you want to do acrobatics, you'd better study for years
1582566;1481638787;asciilifeform;*solidify
1582567;1481638823;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582462 << the other puzzler, where do i take space battle class !111111
1582568;1481638823;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 11:01 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582453 << he makes an excellent point. sign up for a class, you get someone to be there with you who can actually fly the thing, and also get to fuck with the controls. best of both worlds, and it's very much in the $50 for 5 minutes range, just gotta commit to a few hours' worth.
1582569;1481638853;Framedragger;i don't know how it is in the .us and it's prolly *quite* a bit more complicated than that, also i had the lucky chance of having a relative who'd invite to fly with him and show me basic flight control stuff, but are you not able to get lessons as a total noob?
1582570;1481638869;asciilifeform;Framedragger: you can, it's 10-20k usd or so.
1582571;1481638875;asciilifeform;around here.
1582572;1481638894;asciilifeform;and generally done by folks who aim to buy the machine and have actual places to go in it etc
1582573;1481638917;Framedragger;aite, that's a chunk of money for sure, i'd've thought it to have been lower than that :(
1582574;1481638943;asciilifeform;though possibly what mircea_popescu was describing for fiddybux was a tourism sort of thing, different.
1582575;1481638971;asciilifeform;but no, you don't even get to touch airplane for fiddybux in usa. insurance for your so much as farting on it, is a hundy.
1582576;1481638990;Framedragger;well, iac it's a shame no decent game controllers are available, true that :/
1582577;1481638993;asciilifeform;and that's per fart.
1582578;1481639005;mircea_popescu;nah it's safe, you get a trainer with you there.
1582579;1481639017;mircea_popescu;it's pretty much like fucking - dun much matter if YOU're a virgin.
1582580;1481639030;asciilifeform;well yes, naturally you get trainer. he charges 200/hr
1582581;1481639036;asciilifeform;(for cheap one)
1582582;1481639042;mircea_popescu;sometghing like that.
1582583;1481639174;asciilifeform;it isn't that this is useless thing to study! but there is distinct flavour of 'why play 'doom', instead go to the recruiter post and go to afghan, die of scurvy and boredom'
1582584;1481639199;asciilifeform;fwiw i had a colleague who was in iraq and pointedly played 'call of duty: iraq' while there.
1582585;1481639204;mircea_popescu;at the time it was, go to serbia shoot muslims and have grateful sex with the rescued hussies.
1582586;1481639232;asciilifeform;that one ^ beats 'doom', i can see.
1582587;1481639234;mircea_popescu;very much better than anything on tap these days.
1582588;1481639630;asciilifeform;better, i picture, than anything on tap any time since caesar.
1582589;1481639642;asciilifeform;but not exactly a weekend project.
1582590;1481640045;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582517 << holy FUCK and i'm supposed to take it seriously !?
1582591;1481640045;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:31 jurov: since the vim plugin is written in python, one needs to be wizard in both py and lisp to fix it
1582592;1481640075;asciilifeform;what next, plugins that require perl scripts to run when i press tab ?
1582593;1481640094;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582459 << that's not what 'modal' means
1582594;1481640094;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 10:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582433 << you know z80 editor was modal. caps shift an' symbol shift beotch!!1
1582595;1481640113;asciilifeform;modal means you can get stuck in some mode where text isn't going on the screen
1582596;1481640155;mircea_popescu;technically it's what modal means yes
1582597;1481640166;asciilifeform;term of art in editordom
1582598;1481640173;asciilifeform;refers specifically to the idiocy of vi
1582599;1481640182;asciilifeform;... it made some kind of sense with 300 baud modem, yes. but i dun have one.
1582600;1481640185;mircea_popescu;yes, but it means "you can press keys and nothing is printed". which matches.
1582601;1481640196;asciilifeform;1 key, 1 press
1582602;1481640197;asciilifeform;not same.
1582603;1481640205;mircea_popescu;huh ?
1582604;1481640222;asciilifeform;well i have here a keyboard with two whole extra rows of prog f keys that dun display to screen
1582605;1481640224;asciilifeform;they ain't a 'mode'
1582606;1481640241;mircea_popescu;nono. on old sinclair, first you get the "cursor" into the right mode, THEN you type.
1582607;1481640245;mircea_popescu;what did it have C, K, E
1582608;1481640248;mircea_popescu;L iirc
1582609;1481640250;asciilifeform;ah this - yes, vi-like
1582610;1481640262;mircea_popescu;well so then what are you talking about! modal.
1582611;1481640265;asciilifeform;btw another idiocy, arrow keys! they exist ! i WILL use them
1582612;1481640280;asciilifeform;idiocy of c,k,e that is
1582613;1481640313;mircea_popescu;so map them.
1582614;1481640337;asciilifeform;it is mindblowing that vi, that abortion, still is in use. i can only grasp this in light of the alternative being emacs, equally horrid in exactly opposite ways.
1582615;1481640348;jurov;incidentally, arrow keys do work regardless of mode. or i dunno what vim-from-hell alf ran into?
1582616;1481640356;mircea_popescu;"de" = ctrl+shift+left then delete. cmon.
1582617;1481640358;asciilifeform;jurov: i'm thinking of classic vi
1582618;1481640370;mircea_popescu;classic vi is from like 1976!
1582619;1481640390;asciilifeform;well yes.
1582620;1481640405;jurov;next time all will get into white-hot rage about ed? let's go buy popcorn
1582621;1481640418;mircea_popescu;so a) use vim ; b) there's a humongo economy of strokes, at the cost of muscle memory, if youy care. if you don't car,e go ahead.
1582622;1481640430;asciilifeform;whereas modern vi, if you were to roll in all of the pieces i actually use in daily life (e.g., correct autoindent AND colourization for 50+ languages) it will probably weigh what emacs weighs
1582623;1481640459;mircea_popescu;yes yes, editor wars exist because previous investment, i know i know.
1582624;1481640492;asciilifeform;hey if it had theoretical economy, i'd consider it (periodically i go and actually consider, and find that i have to press literally 500x more button)
1582625;1481640534;mircea_popescu;depends what you use it for. if you msotly use an editor to create de novo text, not good fit. if you mostly use editor to adnotate other people's text, very good fit.
1582626;1481640544;asciilifeform;^ yes
1582627;1481640555;asciilifeform;fwiw a sysadmin uses ~100% vi...
1582628;1481640558;mircea_popescu;insert "you are an idiot!" 500x times in five pages ? vim!
1582629;1481640567;asciilifeform;absolutely.
1582630;1481640572;mircea_popescu;so then.
1582631;1481640698;*;mircea_popescu mostly uses nano these days, so whatevs!
1582632;1481640733;Framedragger;asciilifeform: quick unrelated q: in phuctor, do the phuctored debianized keys appear in /phuctored ? from what i recall and understand, all of them are there. and one wouldn't have to look at /sadmods or /dupes - correct?
1582633;1481640763;asciilifeform;Framedragger: absolutely all
1582634;1481640793;Framedragger;aha okay, good to know, thx.
1582635;1481641092;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582504 << this sounds like a terrible idea. directly expose what amounts to 100s of MB of crapolade code by heathens, rather than 1pg by actual person ?
1582636;1481641092;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:27 mircea_popescu: and on this model, you can expose all the dbs directly.
1582637;1481641252;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582523 << consider this, if there were a non-idiotic db system, it would be your filesystem also!
1582638;1481641252;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:32 Framedragger: i'd actually like to see a coherent and all-in-one-place SQL / RDBMS-as-a-general-model critique some time. maybe it exists. usually it's mongodb hipsters complaining randomly, so i'd developed a (too-)generic "ignore 'em all" filter :p
1582639;1481641269;asciilifeform;and would be reasonable candidate for replacing www also.
1582640;1481641282;trinque;yes, I mentioned all that.
1582641;1481641290;*;asciilifeform slowly eating the log
1582642;1481641326;trinque;sad that SQL the horror squatted such useful space.
1582643;1481641380;asciilifeform;it's roughly same type of fecal mass as emacs
1582644;1481641397;mircea_popescu;the point holds though - correct db should also be fs
1582645;1481641494;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582531 << because it's an abortion full of nonorthogonality
1582646;1481641494;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:35 trinque: why the fuck can't I name and reuse "joins" in SQL ?
1582647;1481641583;asciilifeform;sql, emacs, vi, similar animals, survive indefinitely not the least because they are relics - for all their flaws - from the age of men; and have ~ 0% monkeycode
1582648;1481641585;trinque;terribly so
1582649;1481641636;trinque;speaking of relics, I just dug up WORDS
1582650;1481641673;trinque;William Whitaker's
1582651;1481641711;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582549 << naggum had piece on literally this
1582652;1481641711;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:49 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't say you must. "when you design for the novice in the sense of trying to lie to them about their inferiority, you are stuck with that lie and it gets ever more expensive to maintain"
1582653;1481641760;mircea_popescu;link ?
1582654;1481641788;*;asciilifeform contemplates a 'naggumbot'
1582655;1481641824;mircea_popescu;srsly.
1582656;1481641853;asciilifeform;http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3087632126807915@naggum.no.html << and elsewhere
1582657;1481641882;asciilifeform;http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3128224612301670@naggum.no.html
1582658;1481642032;asciilifeform;and http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3241654125513898@naggum.no.html .
1582659;1481642129;*;asciilifeform wonders how much of 'naggumism' actually exists in the written word, and how much -- as a synthesis in his head
1582660;1481642142;mircea_popescu;aha!
1582661;1481642160;mircea_popescu;"had an article about exactly this! here's 3 kinda related!"
1582662;1481642210;asciilifeform;it remains possible that it was there -- and i lost it.
1582663;1481642240;mircea_popescu;certainly.
1582664;1481642291;trinque;something very v-tronic in there, separation between man and "the source code"
1582665;1481642318;trinque;Naggum the god vs naggum the man
1582666;1481642383;asciilifeform;'bbbbut in what volume of lenin was this!111'
1582667;1481642421;mircea_popescu;big part of problem was that he was writing his stuff as email  answers to idiots
1582668;1481642438;asciilifeform;usenet. but yes.
1582669;1481642462;asciilifeform;he left behind very few ab-initio works ('long and painful history of time' is afaik more or less it)
1582670;1481642474;asciilifeform;most of the d00d's life happened offline, in commercial world, is my understanding.
1582671;1481642476;mircea_popescu;something apologizing for sgml also
1582672;1481642507;mircea_popescu;i suspect most of dood's life happened inside his skull. because that's the proboem with "make it easy for beginnertards" : it NECESSARILY also makes it hard for naggums.
1582673;1481642523;asciilifeform;iirc he had law degree in his country.
1582674;1481642583;asciilifeform;he also vagabonded around usa as a young man, was involved in aynrandism, then was cured, and left.
1582675;1481642712;Framedragger;[that reminds me, i bought a postcard of ayn rand and am yet to send this to a friend who is in full hate mode of her stuff. need to get this done for the festive season...]
1582676;1481642723;Framedragger;s/this//
1582677;1481642741;asciilifeform;iirc he realized what was happening to his profession and began to work to leave it, the hard way, by learning an actual 'liberal profession' etc. but ended up leaving it 'the easy way'
1582678;1481642749;asciilifeform;by dying of untreated ulcer.
1582679;1481642792;asciilifeform;Framedragger: what other obscure american crackpots does your friend hate
1582680;1481643244;Framedragger;hehe, don't know particulars, but it should be noted that he studied philosophy and in some of the circles he had to have business with, ayn rand sorta-has a place as a non-crackpot. hence the (arbitrary, otherwise) particular object of hate
1582681;1481643300;Framedragger;(undergrad student circles, etc.; luckily those fall out of relevancy/radar as one ages)
1582682;1481643518;asciilifeform;there are probably somewhere circles where mark karpeles 'has business in as noncrackpot'
1582683;1481643521;asciilifeform;if you look hard enough.
1582684;1481643608;mircea_popescu;" on the Net, people argue about whether year 2000 is a leap year or not, so it's not as if you can rely on the answers you get."
1582685;1481643671;jurov;if only randists. there are plenty of kokeshists.
1582686;1481643691;mircea_popescu;and what prythee is a kokeshist!
1582687;1481643906;asciilifeform;'Kokesh has called for a "new American revolution" and has announced plans to run for President in 2020 on the platform of an "orderly dissolution of the federal government."' << pediwik
1582688;1481643909;asciilifeform;him??
1582689;1481643935;mircea_popescu;o.O
1582690;1481643939;jurov;yes, him: https://www.amazon.com/FREEDOM-Adam-Kokesh-ebook/dp/B00KR9V03K?ie=UTF8
1582691;1481643966;asciilifeform;apparently d00d has a dope problem..?
1582692;1481644018;mircea_popescu;see alf, all these people proposing an end to usg are such lunatics and dope fiends.
1582693;1481644034;asciilifeform;why not do same thing but sober. so hard?
1582694;1481644049;*;jurov falls down
1582695;1481644054;asciilifeform;supposing he even took dope at all
1582696;1481644073;asciilifeform;and not simply helpfully 'given' by helpful-people prior to arrest.
1582697;1481644322;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582484 <<< this looks pretty awesome actually
1582698;1481644322;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:20 Framedragger: ^ just discovered this. "remove the CRUD", serve APIs directly from postgres. includes user/role/cookie management etc. pretty neat.
1582699;1481644402;mircea_popescu;"to advance it is at serious odds with the massive glorification of youth.  As marketing found itself unable to expand without encroaching upon our childhood, the intense drive to capture the minds of the youngest among us has tended to make people believe that 30 years of experience can be replaced by the young looks of rank novices.  This is made worse by the management schools that make it possible for people who have yet
1582700;1481644403;mircea_popescu;to grow enough facial hair to need to shave daily not only to show off their insufficient beard growth as "hip" but to fill "leadership" positions where they feel threatened by anyone significantly older than themselves and where the inability to /lead/ is replaced by their simple skills at /managing/.
1582701;1481644403;mircea_popescu;I believe it takes all kinds to make a working world, but what I find among the modern novices is that they do not feel the same way about the experts -- they want an expert-free world where their ignorance is not painful, where their inexperience is not used against them, where they get all the jokes, where nobody uses literary references that elude them, where every one of their ideas is accepted by their peers as just as n
1582702;1481644407;mircea_popescu;ovel as they think it is, where they can make mistakes without being corrected by people who do know better, where they can reap all the benefits early in life instead of having to work for 40 years first."
1582703;1481644410;mircea_popescu;^ that part gotta be in the logs.
1582704;1481644774;*;Framedragger did a bit of privileged-teen-mode some years ago. "paying for life expenses with money earned from doing work" helpz
1582705;1481645731;asciilifeform;http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2016/12/lockheed-martin-stock-trump-tweet-wipes-2-billion-dollars/ << in other lulz
1582706;1481645841;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582487 << to expand on this : such a model would actually do away with the browser altogether ; just discuss with servers in something like an extended irc client. (yes yes i know, emacs.)
1582707;1481645841;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 12:22 mircea_popescu: sql-to-api thing is actually not half a bad idea.
1582708;1481645850;mircea_popescu;for what it's worth, could be a lengthy pile of perl just as well.
1582709;1481645936;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform were you asking for him to hit the lizzards where it hurts ?
1582710;1481646009;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1510793 << not quite this, but a start.
1582711;1481646009;a111;Logged on 2016-07-28 15:33 mircea_popescu: if trump had any sense, lockheed, northrop & friends are FULLY defunded the same day, and are allowed the mercy to perhaps beg for SOME SMALL PORTION of re-funding, maybe, someday.
1582712;1481646021;mircea_popescu;hey, no buttons yet.
1582713;1481646031;asciilifeform;i suspect they can more easily cancel him, than him -- them
1582714;1481646032;trinque;sure, he's ahead of schedule really
1582715;1481646053;mircea_popescu;yes, but so far babione is not "cancelling" anyone.
1582716;1481646086;mircea_popescu;as it stands right now, lm can not confront its obligaitons to creditors (aka, bankruptcy) if it loses as little as 20% of us expenses.
1582717;1481646099;mircea_popescu;this being the destructive idiocy of eating bad money - you're left without a company.
1582718;1481646373;asciilifeform;lockheed, grumman, general dynamics, et al, were creatures of usg from day1
1582719;1481646403;asciilifeform;(boeing is the one exception i know of, it had a genuine history earlier, even a brief airline monopoly -- but then absorbed also)
1582720;1481646461;thestringpuller;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582703 >> p. sure this is related http://trilema.com/2013/youre-the-guy-who-wasnt-good-enough-to-sling-dope/
1582721;1481646461;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 15:53 mircea_popescu: ^ that part gotta be in the logs.
1582722;1481646554;mircea_popescu;so it is.
1582723;1481648213;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582570 << you also have "intro classes" that'll run you $150 or so with a reputable firm for half hour. i'm sure those same instructors would bring up the plane more than once under similar circmustances: you get to sit in the cockpit and "hold the joystick" at cruising
1582724;1481648213;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 14:21 asciilifeform: Framedragger: you can, it's 10-20k usd or so.
1582725;1481648317;asciilifeform;phf: i can watch dashcams on youtube for 0 $
1582726;1481648367;phf;dc is kind of shitty that they (very few flight schools closebuy, with a lot of wealthy people learning to fly), but there was airport near philly where you could flag any of their instructors and they'd love to fly you around however long you want whether or not you commit to you "recreational" license
1582727;1481648381;asciilifeform;actually i live literally across the street from amateur airport.
1582728;1481648384;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/postcards-from-nutland/ << Trilema - Postcards from Nutland
1582729;1481648405;phf;ha, then i know where you are
1582730;1481648420;asciilifeform;i've lived in roughly same town for decade +
1582731;1481648506;asciilifeform;anyway original thread was about games. and yes, why play racing game, go instead to truck driving school.
1582732;1481648515;asciilifeform;(not that there is anything wrong with studying how to drive big rig)
1582733;1481648519;phf;but anyway, it's fun. not quite the same as a sim, i've no idea what these people are on about, but worth it if you have the cash. in fact if you can stretch 10k over a year, getting a license is not a bad idea
1582734;1481648559;asciilifeform;i can do the study, hell, buy the machine, but i've nowhere to go in it. at some point might do it anyway when i get sufficiently bored and tired of living.
1582735;1481648568;phf;"get to fly every weekend!1"
1582736;1481648714;asciilifeform;traveling in straight line for hours!111 what marvelous fun
1582737;1481648998;asciilifeform;if a 50k rusty 'cessna' could go across ocean, that'd be one thing.
1582738;1481649042;asciilifeform;but it typically costs ~same to go to 1000km in it, as in a passenger liner.
1582739;1481649081;phf;sort of my thinking about flight sims. only reason i have xplane is for practice
1582740;1481649083;asciilifeform;if you were to go ~every week~ (why???) then yes, save a few pennies. but then your life expectancy is a few years.
1582741;1481649087;asciilifeform;as mircea_popescu once pointed out.
1582742;1481649187;asciilifeform;phf: you have the joystick, pedals, etc. also ?
1582743;1481649216;asciilifeform;(some folks spend almost what real machine costs, on practice pit, i found out)
1582744;1481649289;davout;if you just want to hold the stick at cruise, and do some turning and going up and down, you can just go with any private pilot
1582745;1481649300;davout;no need to find yourself an instructor
1582746;1481649315;asciilifeform;at uni i roomed with an old friend, who dreamed of flying, ended up practicing with xplane, studying like maniac, paid his 20k, got the license, then bought, instead of airplane... a ship. which is afaik rusting in port still.
1582747;1481649322;trinque;there's also the difference in experience: walk into hangar, leave. some factor the anal examination into the cost of going by airline.
1582748;1481649326;davout;they won't even be legally allowed to charge you more than splitting the airplane rental costs
1582749;1481649377;phf;davout: it's easier to find an instructor, than it is to "find any private pilot". plus you know asciilifeform objection "i don't know any private pilots"
1582750;1481649396;asciilifeform;actually i used to know one !
1582751;1481649398;asciilifeform;but he died
1582752;1481649401;asciilifeform;(of old age, not in machine)
1582753;1481649449;asciilifeform;and, theoretically, the d00d mentioned earlier -- also. but he had no plane. and last i knew had taken 'vow of poverty', became academic.
1582754;1481649456;davout;i'm sure you could easily find someone anywhere in the US by hopping onto #pilots or /r/flying
1582755;1481649457;phf;asciilifeform: i don't have any peripherals. i use it for their instrument challenges, and they also have a mode where they randomly fail something in the plane and you need to figure out what do. that sort of stuff
1582756;1481649471;asciilifeform;lol!!
1582757;1481649477;asciilifeform;is there also an 'old car' simulator ?
1582758;1481649480;asciilifeform;where various parts fail...
1582759;1481649491;davout;asciilifeform: there's a big difference between "simming" and "playing"
1582760;1481649509;asciilifeform;davout: yes, but not only in the direction you mentioned, but in the other.
1582761;1481649528;davout;simming == what does this button do? does this work if i do the approach this way? what's that instrument?
1582762;1481649536;davout;playing == yeeeeha
1582763;1481649539;asciilifeform;right
1582764;1481649569;asciilifeform;realistic sim is to study for exam (and, once you passed exam, to increase your life expectancy at the wheel)
1582765;1481649639;asciilifeform;this is why i was bewildered at the answers to this thread, i specifically mentioned 'contemplated playing games again after decade+', 'unwind'
1582766;1481649651;davout;aha
1582767;1481649663;asciilifeform;rather than 'where do i learn to pass exam for driving serious machine'
1582768;1481649671;phf;ah
1582769;1481649684;asciilifeform;to this last question, i know the answer very well, it is not a mystery
1582770;1481649717;phf;i have same reaction to sims as mircea_popescu to counter strike, so when you say sim i think xplane, or precusors like mfs (that i hear some still swear by !!1)
1582771;1481649740;asciilifeform;it is like if someone asked about mining in eulora, and you lot instead answered where he can find actual coal mine to work in
1582772;1481649762;davout;hey! i still use ms word as a vim simulator!!!11
1582773;1481649781;asciilifeform;davout imho is correct! vim needs a sim! to train on, so as not to die in the real deal.
1582774;1481649801;asciilifeform;last time i used vim, i landed on a wing and burned to a cinder.
1582775;1481649885;davout;maybe you should stop trying to vim with joysticks
1582776;1481649930;asciilifeform;lel
1582777;1481650135;davout;but seriously, you're a lucky bastard if you live accross the street from an airport
1582778;1481650170;davout;there is like one cessna on this fucking island, and it's used by skydivers
1582779;1481650695;asciilifeform;i for some reason thought that davout had own machine
1582780;1481650751;davout;flying is financial insanity, having one's own machine is double the financial insanity
1582781;1481650764;asciilifeform;and having own auto is not insanity ?
1582782;1481650786;davout;probably not as bad
1582783;1481650804;davout;aeronautic maintenance is horribly expensive, parts are horribly expensive
1582784;1481650826;davout;100LL gas is double the price of regular gas, and machine swallows four times more
1582785;1481650845;davout;and that's for the two seater cessna 150
1582786;1481650879;davout;i guess having one's own machine can make sense in some cases, mine's not one of them
1582787;1481650893;asciilifeform;four times more per what ? per km ??
1582788;1481650906;davout;if you find a flight school that's also renting it from you or something like that
1582789;1481650915;davout;per hour
1582790;1481650930;davout;cessna 15 drinks roughly 22L/h
1582791;1481650932;asciilifeform;yeah but who the hell counts ~hours~ when using transport ??
1582792;1481650936;asciilifeform;you count per km
1582793;1481650937;davout;s/15/150/
1582794;1481650950;asciilifeform;horse -- eats even less than auto, say.
1582795;1481650977;davout;reasonable car does what? 100km in an hour, drinks roughly 6~7L
1582796;1481651071;davout;and remember that cessna runs on 100LL, which in my understanding is regular petrol, just dried up further to prevent carb icing
1582797;1481651082;davout;is also 2x more expensive
1582798;1481651157;davout;i'm quite curious about the rental rates where you live
1582799;1481651183;davout;around paris, a 150 with gas, and instructor will cost you 140€/hr
1582800;1481651333;davout;i'm kinda considering getting myself a professionnal licence, to fly the big guys
1582801;1481651494;davout;speaking of financial insanity...
1582802;1481652755;asciilifeform;davout: afaik that's about as much fun as being a bus driver... but iirc it pays well.
1582803;1481652834;asciilifeform;(no sleeping ad libitum, however, then. your liner might have to fly at 3 in the morning, or whenever.)
1582804;1481652839;davout;my impression is actually the opposite
1582805;1481652854;asciilifeform;hm?
1582806;1481652868;davout;fun, but low pay (unless 30 years experience and a380 captain for air france/ba/lufthansa)
1582807;1481652885;deedbot;http://thewhet.net/2016/argentina-comicon-bonbon/ << The Whet - Argentina Comicon Bonbon.
1582808;1481652986;asciilifeform;davout: understandably this is a matter of taste; but out of curiosity, where is the fun ? computer -- does ~all of the actual piloting
1582809;1481653004;asciilifeform;and even if it did not, nobody's doing acrobatics in a 400 tonne barge full of schmucks
1582810;1481653257;davout;i don't think it's the "piloting" part that's attractive to me, but more the "let's go see the sun" when all the other derps are stuck under a shitty stratus shittus overcast layer
1582811;1481653300;asciilifeform;could just move to mircea_popesculandia. plenty of sun.
1582812;1481653327;davout;also the "maybe it's a really boring job, maybe it's really cool" question that could conclusively be answered with "let's fucking try"
1582813;1481653333;asciilifeform;this - true.
1582814;1481653410;davout;also i already moved to sunville!
1582815;1481653421;asciilifeform;it's an honest trade. my criticism was strictly re the 'oooh yeee haw' part.
1582816;1481653436;davout;ah yeah, i don't think there's much of that to be had
1582817;1481653458;asciilifeform;the 'bus', from what i can tell, mostly drives itself.
1582818;1481653473;davout;i've borrowed a bunch of theory books too, and tbh the learning process itself seems pretty cool too
1582819;1481653484;davout;i had no idea such a thing as a gyrolaser existed
1582820;1481653498;asciilifeform;the theory, i found appealing since childhood, yes
1582821;1481653518;davout;i now understand why it makes sense to have speed shown in knots AND mach number fraction
1582822;1481653527;davout;etc.
1582823;1481653547;asciilifeform;davout: is 'gyrolaser' where you live same thing as what english call 'ring gyro' ?
1582824;1481653563;davout;probably
1582825;1481653570;davout;does it have lasers? :D
1582826;1481653585;davout;no moving parts? measures a momentum? same thing!
1582827;1481653625;asciilifeform;we had a neato inertial navigation thread, but i can't seem to find igt.
1582828;1481653627;asciilifeform;*it
1582829;1481653636;thestringpuller;How do pilot lessons cost 10k?!? Perhaps having cohorts in the boondocks has its advantages such as farmers with planes...
1582830;1481653642;davout;yeah! that stuff's pretty fascinating
1582831;1481653667;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: it's generally the machine rental time that is 90% of the cost iirc.
1582832;1481653675;davout;thestringpuller: amount really depends on personal ability
1582833;1481653684;thestringpuller;Give a farmer some good booze he'll take you up in the cropduster.
1582834;1481653688;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: if you have one already and can convince instructor to go up in it -- might be cheaper.
1582835;1481653698;davout;you can become a private pilot for 5k$ if you're good and do homework between each lessaon
1582836;1481653700;davout;lesson
1582837;1481653710;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: i dun think the crop duster farmer can Officially certify you etc.
1582838;1481653747;thestringpuller;the more traditional method when I was in school, was join Aviation club. Sit at desk give out free pizza, get free coupon for "lessons".
1582839;1481653749;davout;"certified as long as you don't get caught"
1582840;1481653803;asciilifeform;in usa this is even officially permitted, you can buy certain types of machine and fly unlicensed so long as you do it over the ocean where nobody has to clean up your smashed carcass
1582841;1481653880;davout;asciilifeform: you sure? it's kinda doubtful you don't at the ver least have to understand airspace class in general, and not get in the way of people trying to go somewhere in particular
1582842;1481653894;asciilifeform;iirc it was called 'ultralight'
1582843;1481653908;asciilifeform;and yes, requires that you stay out of everybody's way and die quietly and politely
1582844;1481653968;davout;i have nfi about the US, but in france there's a specific ultralight license
1582845;1481654009;davout;that for some unknown reason you don't automatically get along with your private pilot license
1582846;1481654027;asciilifeform;IANAL, so i've nfi.
1582847;1481654425;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit orig. thread, the thing i found appealing about 'air shooters' as a boy, was not the abstract 'grease wank' of 'oooh, engines, and gears' but the quick-with-your-eyes-hands-feet-shootout aspect of the game, which is not something that exists today in meatspace even in actual air combat (where you program the rocket, fire, and go home)
1582848;1481654460;asciilifeform;so it only exists in imagination, in games, just like you cannot go and play 'meat tetris' very well by digging a real hole and throwing stones into it
1582849;1481654565;asciilifeform;and, while mircea_popescu played 'meat doom', it is not a pleasure available 'on tap' to everybody.
1582850;1481654683;asciilifeform;or (at the risk of sounding like complete idiot, because i did not play it) alchemy in eulora, it works there, but meatspace 'alchemy' is considerably more expensive, painful, and rewards -- few and far between, and most practitioners live and die without accomplishing ~anything...
1582851;1481655214;davout;asciilifeform: get yourself F/A-18 hornet
1582852;1481655220;davout;old but gold
1582853;1481655261;asciilifeform;a bit out of my price range...
1582854;1481655263;davout;http://www.old-games.com/screenshot/4238-2-f-a-18-hornet-3.jpg
1582855;1481655271;asciilifeform;aaah the sim
1582856;1481655278;davout;not *a* f/a-18 hornet duh
1582857;1481655293;asciilifeform;looks nifty, very '90s
1582858;1481655303;davout;i had lots of fun playing it
1582859;1481655312;davout;played the demo for hours and hours
1582860;1481655315;asciilifeform;i had much earlier 'aces of pacific'
1582861;1481655321;davout;no internet == no full game
1582862;1481655323;asciilifeform;and before that, 'f19'
1582863;1481655329;asciilifeform;i think mircea_popescu also had 'f19'
1582864;1481655338;davout;i distinctly remember getting on the train to paris as a kid to go buy the full game
1582865;1481655345;davout;THEY DID NOT HAVE IT IN THE SHOP
1582866;1481655430;davout;so i mastered the demo. demo didn't have the wire extended for carrier-landing? after countless attempts i managed to fucking land on the carrier anyway
1582867;1481655546;asciilifeform;neato
1582868;1481656235;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582772 << i use ms excel as msfs simulator!
1582869;1481656235;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 17:22 davout: hey! i still use ms word as a vim simulator!!!11
1582870;1481656338;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582844 << 'experimental' i don't think needs license.
1582871;1481656338;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 18:32 davout: i have nfi about the US, but in france there's a specific ultralight license
1582872;1481656459;davout;ben_vulpes: needs balls of steel
1582873;1481656469;davout;exclusive republican army footage -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZvF3M7vhSs
1582874;1481656491;davout;"let's shoot some fiatliners"
1582875;1481656624;asciilifeform;my reaction is still 'very neato graphics', i am far behind the times
1582876;1481656641;asciilifeform;'woah, svga!'
1582877;1481656921;davout;i also have old guy reactions to new video games
1582878;1481656932;davout;"too much graphics! headache!"
1582879;1481656943;asciilifeform;interestingly i never got the headache.
1582880;1481656948;asciilifeform;or motion sicknesses, etc.
1582881;1481656960;davout;"what's this world of warcraft thing?? how do i get in insert mode"
1582882;1481656967;asciilifeform;(only ever got motion sickness in meatspace, on trains, and even there, not always)
1582883;1481656991;davout;how does one get motion sickness on trains? it's like the dullest thing ever
1582884;1481656994;asciilifeform;by reading
1582885;1481657009;davout;are you doing backflips while reading ?
1582886;1481657026;asciilifeform;the underground train in washington lurches, bumps, it is a very sad thing
1582887;1481657063;asciilifeform;they used to work well, then there was some wreck (from poorly maintained equipment) and human drivers were introduced.
1582888;1481657067;asciilifeform;union labour.
1582889;1481657071;davout;i now have this mental image of you reading on a rollercoaster
1582890;1481657075;asciilifeform;now the train drives like a bus.
1582891;1481657079;asciilifeform;stop, go, stop, go...
1582892;1481657145;asciilifeform;at one time, when i actually had to ride this train every day, i found a barbaric voodoo cure that worked 100%
1582893;1481657160;asciilifeform;a wristwatch-shaped thing that put current through left wrist
1582894;1481657179;asciilifeform;somehow the pain switched off the motion-sickness circuit.
1582895;1481657256;asciilifeform;thing even came with conductive grease, quite like what one finds in descriptions of electric chair, when head is shaved and lathered so as to conduct well
1582896;1481657345;davout;acupuncture principles mebbe?
1582897;1481657357;asciilifeform;i have monumentally nfi how. but -- worked.
1582898;1481657375;asciilifeform;probably on the principle of 'arm writhes in agony, can't think about also vomiting'
1582899;1481657453;davout;aha, as in 'really painful', probably not same thing then, body more concerned with "aaaah, injured" than "blergh, poisoned"
1582900;1481657482;asciilifeform;it wasn't even acutely painful, just same sensation as if you had sat on your hand for a while
1582901;1481657496;asciilifeform;but quite unplesant.
1582902;1481657499;asciilifeform;*unpleasant
1582903;1481657531;asciilifeform;connect, some time, 2 9v batteries in series across your wrist, it will be similar.
1582904;1481657807;Framedragger;gotta admire your industrious approach asciilifeform...
1582905;1481657860;davout;while we're on the electricity topic: can i test the fact that my wall socket ground pin is correctly grounded by measuring the tension between said ground pin, and one of the plug holes?
1582906;1481657866;Framedragger;reminds me of some guy who put a wire under his hand's skin, and made compass needle modulate the current (or somesuch). claims that after 2-3 weeks he had gained a genuinely new sense (of absolute direction)...
1582907;1481657874;Framedragger;(no sources for this..)
1582908;1481657882;asciilifeform;Framedragger: this is in the logs
1582909;1481657889;Framedragger;oh. ...of course
1582910;1481657896;asciilifeform;but it wasn't a wire, it was a small neodymium magnet
1582911;1481657903;Framedragger;ah.
1582912;1481657931;asciilifeform;no electronics involved
1582913;1481657934;asciilifeform;just magnet.
1582914;1481657940;*;davout can never remember learning about cryptomnesia
1582915;1481657950;asciilifeform;davout: you can tell whether the ground is ~connected~, but that's more or less it
1582916;1481657977;davout;what could it be connected to that's not the earth?
1582917;1481657981;asciilifeform;the resistance between ground and 'cold' pin should be immeasurably small, in a properly built socket
1582918;1481657998;asciilifeform;davout: it could (and in orc dwellings, often is) connected to nothing at all.
1582919;1481658025;davout;but if it's not connected to anything, how can i observe a tension between it and a socket hole?
1582920;1481658051;asciilifeform;you cannot; can only try to measure resistance between it and the cold prong
1582921;1481658088;davout;between the ground pin and the actual soil ?
1582922;1481658105;asciilifeform;no, b/w it and cold prong (i.e. the one without 220v on it)
1582923;1481658124;davout;isn't "cold prong" the "ground pin" ?
1582924;1481658157;asciilifeform;they are normally tied together, on an iron stake outside the house, yes
1582925;1481658163;asciilifeform;but outside of africa mains socket has ~3~ prongs
1582926;1481658173;asciilifeform;which is what i thought davout was asking about.
1582927;1481658216;asciilifeform;btw a decent ups has this test built-in, and will eggog if it finds that 3rd pin (ground) does not conduct to cold prong (or, worse, has + voltage on it..)
1582928;1481658224;davout;ok, maybe i just suck at engrish, "prong" is either a hole, or a pin poking out of the socket, the poking out one, being connected to the "ground pin", said ground pin being in the soil?
1582929;1481658250;asciilifeform;pin
1582930;1481658252;asciilifeform;and yes
1582931;1481658284;davout;ok, so i try to measure resistance between the soil and ground prong, and should find small value
1582932;1481658319;davout;(and try not to kill myself in the process)
1582933;1481658328;asciilifeform;first measure b/w cold ('neutral') and ground
1582934;1481658346;asciilifeform;but better still to simply plug in the pocket-sized tool that does this, it costs maybe 1 $ where i live.
1582935;1481658351;asciilifeform;and has handy eggog lamps.
1582936;1481658356;davout;aha
1582937;1481658377;davout;where i live you don't just "buy stuff"
1582938;1481658393;davout;where i live "it's complicated"
1582939;1481658397;asciilifeform;aaah yes
1582940;1481658431;davout;where i live "cold storage" means you won't die eating the chicken
1582941;1481658874;*;Framedragger just discovered how phuctor's 404 page looks like: http://nosuchlabs.com/asdf - appreciates
1582942;1481658931;asciilifeform;l0l
1582943;1481662143;jurov;davout: you can test the ground pin voltage against water pipes. there never should be any
1582944;1481662225;jurov;and that's also its purpose
1582945;1481662677;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582726 << beedog life is predicated on not being able to do things though!
1582946;1481662677;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 16:59 phf: dc is kind of shitty that they (very few flight schools closebuy, with a lot of wealthy people learning to fly), but there was airport near philly where you could flag any of their instructors and they'd love to fly you around however long you want whether or not you commit to you "recreational" license
1582947;1481662700;ben_vulpes;http://www.cs.yale.edu/publications/techreports/tr1049.pdf << cute
1582948;1481662720;ben_vulpes;figure 4: subjective evaluations by review panel is particularly amusing
1582949;1481662854;ben_vulpes;in specific grading a lisp 'c' for 'prototyping support' (review panel completely ignorant of repls i suppose) and 'c' for 'high level structuring' (macros don't exist i guess?)
1582950;1481662870;ben_vulpes;what/ever/
1582951;1481662901;mircea_popescu;lol!
1582952;1481662929;ben_vulpes;and lisp weenies get a reputation for smugness
1582953;1481662937;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582749 << this is like saying "it's a lot easier to find call girl than incredibly hot girl bored out of her wits at every single party because every single dude is trained by figure 4 above to aim low and won't even talk to her."
1582954;1481662937;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 17:16 phf: davout: it's easier to find an instructor, than it is to "find any private pilot". plus you know asciilifeform objection "i don't know any private pilots"
1582955;1481662945;ben_vulpes;kinda interesting how haskell has yet to eke out a foothold around here.
1582956;1481662969;*;ben_vulpes off to inject an urban food log down his throat
1582957;1481662987;ben_vulpes;put it in mah face hole
1582958;1481662993;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes you don't get it : the "Reputation" bs is institutionalized oppression.  in any system where group x has "reputation for y-bad" you know for a fact that a) group z is in charge ; b) group z is y-bad and c) group x is not.
1582959;1481662997;mircea_popescu;STRICTLY that ; nothing else.
1582960;1481663007;jurov;ben_vulpes: haskell is too young
1582961;1481663115;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes jurov haskell is domain specific for domains we're not as of yet interested in ?
1582962;1481663185;jurov;no it's actually quite suitable for bitcoin implementation, i have written performant simulation in it (but had to instrument it not to gobble memory for lazy computation)
1582963;1481663194;jurov;just not stable yet
1582964;1481663221;jurov;10y old haskell code not worky
1582965;1481663224;mircea_popescu;ah then that's the answer : jurov's not published yet.
1582966;1481663260;mircea_popescu;apparently the "around here" is wider than previously thought.
1582967;1481663385;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: fwiw i programmed in it
1582968;1481663392;asciilifeform;it has the prolog disease.
1582969;1481663414;asciilifeform;(and, unlike prolog, is quite massive per se, and not easy at all to implement, and there is ONE usable implementation...)
1582970;1481663457;mircea_popescu;in other irrelevant home flavour, girl making zacusca (the proper ro thing, baked peppers, etc) "what do i do with the juice ?" "freeze it" "hmm... need to get bags we're out" "use an ice cube tray". now ima have veggie broth cubed, for soups!
1582971;1481663483;asciilifeform;'lazy computation' is -- like it or not -- a horrendous idea.
1582972;1481663496;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't suspect he's using THAT part.
1582973;1481663505;asciilifeform;(it is VERY attractive to academitards because it creates the kind of problems which they can later convert into papers)
1582974;1481663523;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you can't actually program in haskell 'without using that part', not really
1582975;1481663531;mircea_popescu;there's possibly a language under academia-haskell screaming to get out ; strong types and etc
1582976;1481663541;mircea_popescu;it's unclear if that language reduces then to ada, but i suspect not.
1582977;1481663548;asciilifeform;no, it reduces to ml
1582978;1481663555;asciilifeform;specifically.
1582979;1481663568;asciilifeform;i considered ml as a very, very close contender for 'an ada'
1582980;1481663579;mircea_popescu;this is possible yes.
1582981;1481663593;mircea_popescu;"typed lisp" w/e
1582982;1481663604;asciilifeform;but i very much dislike the 'no native compiler exists or can likely ever exist' part; and the 'there are 2 implementations ever made, and only 1 is quasi-usable' part.
1582983;1481663612;asciilifeform;ada suffers from the latter problem also
1582984;1481663618;asciilifeform;(but not the former)
1582985;1481663620;mircea_popescu;jurov did you consider and discard ml for your application incidentally ?
1582986;1481663629;jurov;never touched ml
1582987;1481663633;mircea_popescu;ah.
1582988;1481663646;asciilifeform;hardly anyone ever touches it today. no longer taught, afaik.
1582989;1481663659;asciilifeform;it was 'replaced' with haskell in academiland, and with ocaml in heavy industry
1582990;1481663669;asciilifeform;(the latter has ONE IMPLEMENTATION, by some fr d00dz)
1582991;1481663685;mircea_popescu;ocaml that ml which is ml in the sense javasCript is c.
1582992;1481663693;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582941 << i still think koi8-r was a great hack. i think cleverness of that kind is no longer popular because idiots ruined cleverness for everyone
1582993;1481663693;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 19:54 Framedragger just discovered how phuctor's 404 page looks like: http://nosuchlabs.com/asdf - appreciates
1582994;1481663719;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on the contrary, it has a native compiler for x86. but i categorically am put off by the 'one implementation' thing.
1582995;1481663738;mircea_popescu;phf as per naggumg quote ; quite exactly my mind too : there not existing cleverness is more valuable to the empire-of-idiots than any gains from clevernesses they realise.
1582996;1481663740;asciilifeform;phf: i still have multi-GB stash of koi8
1582997;1481663767;mircea_popescu;which is true, too. republic grows by cleverness ; empire shrinks by it.
1582998;1481663790;asciilifeform;fwiw i am still open to suggestions re 'the better ada'
1582999;1481663806;asciilifeform;because ada per se is very, very hairy hair shirt.
1583000;1481663811;asciilifeform;but afaik is not escapable, no.
1583001;1481663814;mircea_popescu;that open-ness is imaginary at best ; minigame will use ada rsa for example.
1583002;1481663824;asciilifeform;theoretically open.
1583003;1481663827;asciilifeform;i don't expect an answer.
1583004;1481663835;mircea_popescu;there was a window, but i think it closed recently.
1583005;1481663838;asciilifeform;am quite certain , in fact, that there isn't one
1583006;1481664006;asciilifeform;as someone who ~likes~ 'functional' languages, etc., i still must point out that it is a highly questionable business to use a language where there is not a simple, kindergarten correspondence b/w each line of the program and what the machine physically does, for safety-critical equipment.
1583007;1481664028;asciilifeform;of the type-safe/bounds-safe languages, ada is the only one which fills this description.
1583008;1481664029;asciilifeform;afaik.
1583009;1481664064;asciilifeform;(there is also pascal, but there exists , afaik, no reasonably cross-arch compiler today for it. and ada is a variation on the pascal theme anyway...)
1583010;1481664102;mircea_popescu;there's to my mind two different and unduly conjoined at the hip in practice meanings of "computer". ONE is "i need this tool to amplify my searching - false positives are not a concern, false negatives are very much a concern" ; but THE OTHER is "i need this machine to reliably do boring task for me - false positives are CATASTROPHIC, false negatives not so big a deal".
1583011;1481664116;phf;i would learn pascal if only because it was spoken by knuth (c)
1583012;1481664133;mircea_popescu;as per the first, returning "nothing there" wrongly when i scan hill will result in wolf eating me; returning "wolf" when nothing there will just result in more checks, no biggy.
1583013;1481664136;asciilifeform;i caught the tail end of the pascal era in american school.
1583014;1481664166;mircea_popescu;this kind-of mirrors the two functions of brain discussed in neuroscience, the fuzzy and the sharp state
1583015;1481664199;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: taken literally, the first can simply take the form of 'iswolf(...) { return 1 ; } ' !
1583016;1481664216;mircea_popescu;in wetware these are stress-switched (which is why "stress" even exists in mammals) ; but i don't expect hardware to be able to reconfigure my machine from one to the other - just as long as it does either well i can buy two machines.
1583017;1481664217;asciilifeform;which is probably not what you want.
1583018;1481664229;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's a 2 take of 1.
1583019;1481664232;mircea_popescu;no, not what i want.
1583020;1481664274;phf;ru still uses pascal, at least at msucmc when i did evening math school kuryachiy taught everyone C, which i later learned was a kind of rebelling. dept proper uses pascal for all course material
1583021;1481664301;mircea_popescu;same here, except what, decades ago o.O
1583022;1481664479;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582787 << no, he means per hour.
1583023;1481664479;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 17:41 asciilifeform: four times more per what ? per km ??
1583024;1481664492;mircea_popescu;his life after all comes in hour slices.
1583025;1481664528;asciilifeform;(to briefly revisit upstack, for log readers, 'prolog disease' is when a language is designed in such a way that in the course of normal operation, you routinely ask the machine questions which may well be np-hard to answer; and at any rate the correspondence between the algorithmic complexity of your proggy as-written and the resulting instruction stream physically as-executed, is something other than obvious)
1583026;1481664549;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582795 << you live in an alt world. i don't think ANY car in buenos aires EVER averaged 50/hr over a whole day of its entire  its lifetime.
1583027;1481664549;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 17:42 davout: reasonable car does what? 100km in an hour, drinks roughly 6~7L
1583028;1481664641;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582806 << he's right, at that.
1583029;1481664641;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 18:14 davout: fun, but low pay (unless 30 years experience and a380 captain for air france/ba/lufthansa)
1583030;1481664960;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582807 << ahaha hanbot quite! "dale, entonces somos todos artistas!" is just about buenos airtards in their heart of hearts.
1583031;1481664960;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 18:14 deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2016/argentina-comicon-bonbon/ << The Whet - Argentina Comicon Bonbon.
1583032;1481677491;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EC80FC1B2390AB3C5EA9393F79810BCB53F44349D3A18F84B64C942AF5A42CF9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1033...0847 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.197 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.197 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1583033;1481677491;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E9178835F46E18E120A90B7408D74FB435B55D42500C3B8AD1FE339402F41BF5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2749...0911 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.82.156.20 (ssh-rsa key from 80.82.156.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CZ)
1583034;1481678571;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EC80FC1B2390AB3C5EA9393F79810BCB53F44349D3A18F84B64C942AF5A42CF9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1033...0847 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.197 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.197 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1583035;1481678571;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9CA2F617FF1AE07F810319A1B5FA7482903D44720FB605C30F46B965933EDB7B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1033...0847 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.248 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.248 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1583036;1481679243;phf;well, definitely not moving to argentina
1583037;1481679417;thestringpuller;!~later tell davout http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/xPu3G/?raw=true
1583038;1481679417;jhvh1;thestringpuller: The operation succeeded.
1583039;1481681786;mod6;!~tslb
1583040;1481681788;jhvh1;mod6: Time since last block: 37 minutes and 39 seconds
1583041;1481684633;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/mps-heroes-of-might-and-magic-vii-for-blood-and-honor-early-walkthrough-guide/ << Trilema - MP's Heroes of Might and Magic VII (For Blood and Honor) Early Walkthrough & Guide.
1583042;1481687084;BingoBoingo;http://thewhet.net/2016/argentina-comicon-bonbon/ << This may be the literary piece of the year
1583043;1481688249;mod6;i lel'd
1583044;1481688760;BingoBoingo;hanbot has a gift with the verbal venom
1583045;1481690987;hanbot;aw, shucks ;)
1583046;1481691175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E9178835F46E18E120A90B7408D74FB435B55D42500C3B8AD1FE339402F41BF5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1574...0837 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.82.156.20 (ssh-rsa key from 80.82.156.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CZ)
1583047;1481691444;*;BingoBoingo suspects it was the years in the forum slop helped to hone hanbot's craft
1583048;1481691899;hanbot;couldn't've hurt. really though, there's nothing like travel and working for mp to give someone a pair of disdain and derision glasses.
1583049;1481691943;BingoBoingo;But the forum offer a flayground full of bodies to skin!
1583050;1481691975;hanbot;speaking of which, i got contact lenses for the first time last week. talked to a few people here about them, then realized i'd been calling them "contact lentils" (lentejas de contacto vs lentes)
1583051;1481691994;BingoBoingo;Glasses only go so far. At some point gotta practice cutting.
1583052;1481691996;hanbot;"i'm still getting used to my contact lentils", i said this.
1583053;1481691998;ben_vulpes;haha
1583054;1481692011;BingoBoingo;lol
1583055;1481692021;ben_vulpes;how long did it take the arsholes to correct you?
1583056;1481692077;hanbot;oh no, i realized this on my own. when out grocery shopping.
1583057;1481692288;ben_vulpes;mhm
1583058;1481692325;ben_vulpes;"oh, contact lentils, that's what they're called"
1583059;1481692361;ben_vulpes;did any say contact lentils back?
1583060;1481692454;hanbot;...nah. but totally, a derpy tourist pidgin would be just the thing to take off here.
1583061;1481692934;hanbot;anyway BingoBoingo a major lesson of the forum was that "nothing/nobody could be that fucking stupid" fails to pan out, and pretty much every time it's tested, too. i imagine scouting stories for qntra yields the same realization.
1583062;1481692965;BingoBoingo;Pretty much
1583063;1481693018;BingoBoingo;Except I don't get to play with the food as much.
1583064;1481693081;hanbot;do you want to?
1583065;1481693365;BingoBoingo;Nah, I have a hobby for that.
1583066;1481693969;hanbot;BingoBoingo's backcatalogue of butthurt weeds? :D
1583067;1481694398;BingoBoingo;lol, bipedal ones too
1583068;1481696053;BingoBoingo;In other news, under Mayor de Blasio New York rents are apparently falling?
1583069;1481696309;ben_vulpes;someone showed me a 'data point' that supported that hypothesis recently
1583070;1481712424;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583052 << that's nothing ; in romania she asked the clerk in the fish shop for a coupla sidewalks, because english trout seemed cognate to romanian trotuar and wtf is a "pastrav". that guy is probably STILL staring into the empty space.
1583071;1481712424;a111;Logged on 2016-12-14 05:06 hanbot: "i'm still getting used to my contact lentils", i said this.
1583072;1481712564;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583060 << it is, after all, how they ended up mispronouncing spanish. no, lluvia is not shuvia motherfuckers.
1583073;1481712564;a111;Logged on 2016-12-14 05:14 hanbot: ...nah. but totally, a derpy tourist pidgin would be just the thing to take off here.
1583074;1481712940;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583068 << maybe the dear hearts an' gentle people of iowa&co finally figured out new york's really not worth the hassle ? and stopped moving there in hopes of becoming a magazine writer with a manhattan mansion just like that carrie bradshaw irl genuine real person ?
1583075;1481712940;a111;Logged on 2016-12-14 06:14 BingoBoingo: In other news, under Mayor de Blasio New York rents are apparently falling?
1583076;1481712946;mircea_popescu;i dunno, shooting in the dork here.
1583077;1481713032;mircea_popescu;or maybe it's all part of the summoning of the great again. new york used to be the cheapest in the werld at some point.
1583078;1481719653;asciilifeform;'rents falling' could simply mean that 2 or 3 buffetts moved out...
1583079;1481719714;asciilifeform;no need to even be a buffett, if asciilifeform were to move out of his street, 'rents would fall' there.
1583080;1481719761;danielpbarron;!~later tell trinque can i still get this file somewhere?
1583081;1481719761;jhvh1;danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
1583082;1481719800;danielpbarron;!~later tell trinque whoops, this : http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-15#1239186
1583083;1481719800;a111;Logged on 2015-08-15 22:32 trinque: shinohai: http://deedbot.org/genbootstrap.sh
1583084;1481719801;jhvh1;danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
1583085;1481720046;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582850 << actually, eulora is a great imitation of life in this regard
1583086;1481720046;a111;Logged on 2016-12-13 18:44 asciilifeform: or (at the risk of sounding like complete idiot, because i did not play it) alchemy in eulora, it works there, but meatspace 'alchemy' is considerably more expensive, painful, and rewards -- few and far between, and most practitioners live and die without accomplishing ~anything...
1583087;1481720382;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/996F92C7319824CEFEB0D66EF1EFB5E5873B537266320EC2AFBB4C33C6534942 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1702...5683 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.98.38.26 (ssh-rsa key from 5.98.38.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host26-38-static.98-5-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
1583088;1481723124;shinohai;CoinDesk's Most influential "People" in blockchain .... #2 Butterin .... #1 The DAO hacker lmao http://archive.is/kSuld
1583089;1481723151;mircea_popescu;"in blockchain" loller.
1583090;1481723177;mircea_popescu;how quickly we forget the very reason we even have to call it "blockchain" rather than pretend it's bitcoin. tsk tsk.
1583091;1481729058;BingoBoingo;OMG number 10!
1583092;1481729293;BingoBoingo;Ms Boring.
1583093;1481729298;mircea_popescu;who ?
1583094;1481729397;BingoBoingo;That one girl who came in with generic "bitcoingirl" nick or something like that and left. I think early 2014-ish
1583095;1481729524;mircea_popescu;oh oh
1583096;1481729687;BingoBoingo;Anyways this is a serious Coindesk problem. People ask about doing things, decide to not do them instead doing the Silbert fiatola thing, and then make Coindesk list because it is all silbert stuff nao.
1583097;1481729889;mod6;such influence
1583098;1481729979;BingoBoingo;In similar news, Christmas Shopping for the frugal: Buy a Christmas Tree. Have the bottom limbs stripped off and cut it in half so the top becomes a small tree. Slice the now detached bottom log into disks. Score the bark on the disks with a knife. You now have a tree and tree scented disks to give as presents.
1583099;1481730156;shinohai;http://www.thedp.com/article/2016/12/shakespeare-portrait-removed  ".....replaced it with a photo of Audre Lorde, a black female writer." Such inclusiveness !
1583100;1481730180;asciilifeform;'The work by Wuille and others on the SegWit proposal, which moved from testing to launch over the course of 2016, has set the stage for what will likely be bitcoin’s critical development arc in 2017. For Wuille and all the other bitcoin developers in the world, 2017 is on course for a defining year.' << lel
1583101;1481730201;mircea_popescu;that poor schmuck
1583102;1481730566;mircea_popescu;anyway, so summer of forks is 2017 of forks nao ?
1583103;1481731149;BingoBoingo;Summer of N+1 as usual!
1583104;1481731212;mircea_popescu;heh
1583105;1481731248;phf;oh man, upenn, et tu, brute!
1583106;1481731786;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/996F92C7319824CEFEB0D66EF1EFB5E5873B537266320EC2AFBB4C33C6534942 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1512...8879 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.98.38.26 (ssh-rsa key from 5.98.38.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host26-38-static.98-5-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
1583107;1481731845;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/googles-youtube-bans-a-government-media-outlet/ << Qntra - Google's Youtube Bans A Government Media Outlet
1583108;1481732028;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo tecvhnically it's alphabet's
1583109;1481732106;mircea_popescu;and honestly, there;'s absolutely no need for the orc hordes to touch shakespeare.
1583110;1481732117;mircea_popescu;whatever the fuck that traci lorde did is exactly right for them.
1583111;1481732409;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty, piece now more accurately reflects org chart
1583112;1481732572;mircea_popescu;:)
1583113;1481733265;thestringpuller;!#s data driven development
1583114;1481733266;a111;0 results for "data driven development", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=data%20driven%20development
1583115;1481733374;thestringpuller;^- meh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc not the best example cause he works on engines like ratchet and clank
1583116;1481733917;thestringpuller;BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/809071452708360192
1583117;1481734147;trinque;how's that cultural revolution coming along?
1583118;1481734279;mircea_popescu;great leap forward!
1583119;1481734285;mircea_popescu;putin engineered famine!
1583120;1481734321;trinque;kanye just gotta get his retweets from black twitter and #2024
1583121;1481734372;mircea_popescu;whats #2024 ?
1583122;1481734421;trinque;that's when kanye be president
1583123;1481734431;mircea_popescu;haha wut
1583124;1481734520;trinque;after a very serious meeting with Trump he apparently chose to move his very serious run back from 2020.
1583125;1481734598;mircea_popescu;oic
1583126;1481734614;BingoBoingo;Poor Cliter, she ain't ever beating Kanye.
1583127;1481734744;thestringpuller;Kanye singlehandedly unleashed high frequency trading onto the sneaker world en masse.
1583128;1481734776;*;thestringpuller trying to resell yeezy's via bots.
1583129;1481735271;mircea_popescu;whart, they gonna keep her in embalming fluid till 2024 ?
1583130;1481735574;trinque;danielpbarron: I've got like five versions of that genbootstrap thing; what are you trying to accomplish ?
1583131;1481735589;trinque;got a musltronic one for example
1583132;1481735670;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: WHy not? Or "life support".
1583133;1481735726;thestringpuller;just like disney sits in cryotube at bottom of disney world castle.
1583134;1481736048;mircea_popescu;heh
1583135;1481736057;asciilifeform;iirc there exists a musltronic python. so a musltronic gentoo is afaik in principle possible.
1583136;1481736077;asciilifeform;(though imho a fully depythonized one would be more interesting; but it would be sufficiently different animal to deserve a new name)
1583137;1481736372;mircea_popescu;eh python 2.x isn't the end of the world.
1583138;1481736448;mircea_popescu;might bring the same arguments against bash ffs.
1583139;1481736475;asciilifeform;might, and correctly
1583140;1481736558;asciilifeform;both scripting langs are turdalicious, heavy, and ill-defined. i will point out that 8-bit rom basics were seldom >4kB (e.g., 6502, z80 )
1583141;1481736563;asciilifeform;and forths -- smaller yet
1583142;1481736650;trinque;asciilifeform: yeah, when I run my gentoo recipe, it's usually musl unless I actually need the glibc turd for something
1583143;1481736672;phf;there's a pure musl gentoo build
1583144;1481736681;trinque;yeah, "hardened" subproject
1583145;1481737008;trinque;asciilifeform: I moved portage over to openbsd (which had been done once before by another) only to decide the thing had gotten far too complicated.
1583146;1481737029;trinque;it's a mountain of hacks under the hood
1583147;1481737042;asciilifeform;always was
1583148;1481737055;asciilifeform;when such a thing appears to work, it is because it is running on human fat
1583149;1481737091;asciilifeform;when the 'coolies' who kept the thing from falling apart under own weight, pack and leave -- it collapses.
1583150;1481737102;phf;even dpkg/apt would be better than portage (note that dpkg and apt lets you build packages from source in a reliable and automatic way, but the setup for the process is not documented anywhere, since it's supposed to be "package maintainer technology")"
1583151;1481737137;asciilifeform;phf: how is a binary turdolade installer comparable with portage?!
1583152;1481737142;mircea_popescu;time for v!
1583153;1481737154;phf;asciilifeform: did you miss the insides of parenthesis?
1583154;1481737162;asciilifeform;phf: possibly
1583155;1481737173;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a vtronic 'gentoo' is trivially possible except that nobody's going to sign GB of crapola.
1583156;1481737186;asciilifeform;nobody sane, at any rate
1583157;1481737240;mircea_popescu;hey, "it's a start".
1583158;1481737300;mircea_popescu;but non-v package manager is insanity.
1583159;1481737355;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is actually how i ended up puzzling over 'vectorized sigs' and other, even less promising leads -- proper, honest-to-goodness signature is a 'heavy' instrument
1583160;1481737368;asciilifeform;you would have to be a lunatic to sign, e.g., python, bash.
1583161;1481737384;asciilifeform;(for any purpose other than 'i found on my disk in 2011, i swear')
1583162;1481737394;mircea_popescu;why?
1583163;1481737410;asciilifeform;because 'idiomatic c'.
1583164;1481737414;asciilifeform;(aka idiotic c)
1583165;1481737430;mircea_popescu;so ?
1583166;1481737432;asciilifeform;because all of it is really a game of underhanded c contest .
1583167;1481737450;mircea_popescu;if someone wants to negrate you because legacy pile was bad, hey, all the better.
1583168;1481737459;mircea_popescu;dun see why you'd want a positive rating from that mind anywya
1583169;1481737482;asciilifeform;there is such a thing as a signature's weight.
1583170;1481737496;mircea_popescu;certainly.
1583171;1481737523;mircea_popescu;so make a "this is my key for signing legacy c bs"
1583172;1481737553;asciilifeform;what ~useful~ thing would such a signature tell to you ?
1583173;1481737559;mircea_popescu;dude.
1583174;1481737572;asciilifeform;should i also sign winblows iso ?
1583175;1481737596;mircea_popescu;"v gentoo would be possioble except for x" "so make x" "no because of co-consideration" " so make x' and disclaim the co-consideration" "what is the point of having x' if you disclaim the co-consideration???"
1583176;1481737602;mircea_popescu;i dunno.
1583177;1481737618;asciilifeform;the point is that the necessary labour to make such a signature carry any weight whatsoever does not exist.
1583178;1481737630;mircea_popescu;never you mind those considerations.
1583179;1481737646;mircea_popescu;who THE FUCK is in a position to contest anything ?
1583180;1481737656;asciilifeform;the first finder of an 0day ?
1583181;1481737662;mircea_popescu;"oh, this foul gentoo with the foul python" "bitch, what do you run ?" "same. but i had expectations from you!"
1583182;1481737723;asciilifeform;incidentally i realized that it is misleading to say 'i run gentoo.' because i probably could not recreate it other than from backups of own machines.
1583183;1481737743;mircea_popescu;so then the "necessary labour" is... already done.
1583184;1481737751;mircea_popescu;what, you want to have a flood and lose it permanently ?
1583185;1481737778;asciilifeform;it was done to standard of 'runs', rather than 'guaranteed correct'
1583186;1481737829;mircea_popescu;so ?
1583187;1481737903;asciilifeform;asciilifeform: 'i have this here minefield'  mircea_popescu: 'so clear it' asciilifeform  : 'how' mircea_popescu : 'so, just walk on it' asciilifeform : 'i'd like to keep my legs' mircea_popescu : 'so'
1583188;1481737912;mircea_popescu;no.
1583189;1481737941;mircea_popescu;"i have this here race track. people sometimes die on it. I WILL LOCK IT DOWN FOREVER!!!!" "what are you, some kind of idiot ?"
1583190;1481737986;asciilifeform;incidentally i did think of the 'multiple signing keys' thing, imho it is fairly obvious, but even worse than my vectorizer thing
1583191;1481737993;mircea_popescu;i don't see why.
1583192;1481738015;asciilifeform;if you thought ~that~ was horrid, consider 'now which key is this? asciilifeform 's 'i kinda maybe read this' key ? or his 'this is installed on my reactor' key ? or..'
1583193;1481738027;mircea_popescu;wut ?
1583194;1481738042;mircea_popescu;they're nothing alike, seriously now.
1583195;1481738065;asciilifeform;well mircea_popescu suggested a 'this is my key for signing legacy c bs'. how many of these does mircea_popescu personally intend to keep ? of what types ?
1583196;1481738073;asciilifeform;is this to be an agreed-upon thing, or ad hoc.
1583197;1481738108;mircea_popescu;it's both agreed upon and discussed throughout the logs ; whenever v intended usage came up, this came up.
1583198;1481738116;asciilifeform;it's a new and poorly defined layer of moving parts
1583199;1481738130;mircea_popescu;neither new, nor poorly defined. i can do it right now and you'd never know.
1583200;1481738144;asciilifeform;paint an educational picture plox
1583201;1481738184;asciilifeform;( and in what particular scenario does this work with 'and you never know'... this one's puzzling )
1583202;1481738189;mircea_popescu;i create a key, sign the whatever dump ; for all you know a new eulora player signed a gentoo legacy v root.
1583203;1481738209;mircea_popescu;i say hey, this may be interesting ; or someone else does. the end.
1583204;1481738233;asciilifeform;there is an unpleasant flavour of multiple personality disease, 'tulpa', to this, imho.
1583205;1481738292;asciilifeform;possibly it's the only solution, but i should like to think that it is not, it makes my stomach queasy.
1583206;1481738299;mircea_popescu;comes with the territory.
1583207;1481738356;asciilifeform;'this proggy thermonuked my entire continent, fuck you' 'oops, you should have learned to read, notice, it was signed by drunk-asciilifeform not by asciilifeform'
1583208;1481738386;mircea_popescu;this conceit that signatures are somehow confusable is very strange indeed.
1583209;1481738411;asciilifeform;signatures, by definition, are the most obvious thing in the world
1583210;1481738420;asciilifeform;but their ~weight~ is not machine-calculable.
1583211;1481738631;asciilifeform;i suppose 'everybody turns into a swarm of deliberately-maintained sybils' is one way to 'vectorize signature'...
1583212;1481738662;mircea_popescu;everyone already ~is~ that.
1583213;1481738944;asciilifeform;i can think of no counter to this.
1583214;1481738973;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's algorithm will be used, there is afaik no alternative possible.
1583215;1481739022;mircea_popescu;it's not as bad as it seems - eg fiat's mouthpiece can now put me as #1 most influential thingamabob in "blockchain" discreetely.
1583216;1481739028;mircea_popescu;subversion etc.
1583217;1481739136;phf;we already have a method, which is a list of sha512 signed with a corresponding disclaimer. can do the same for any complicated project, like gentoo "here's the stage3, here's sigs for all the packages that you might possibly install"
1583218;1481739155;phf;oh i guess the idea is to v-ify all those packages..
1583219;1481739167;asciilifeform;phf: thread was about hypothetical 'vtronic gentoo'
1583220;1481739167;mircea_popescu;yes.
1583221;1481739182;asciilifeform;v requires machineable sigs.
1583222;1481739195;mircea_popescu;or more generally - any reclaimed codebase the republic intends to clean up and use.
1583223;1481739202;mircea_popescu;like eulora's codebase for instance.
1583224;1481739391;phf;also requires general solution to binary problem
1583225;1481739392;trinque;if I decide to clean up a bum and put him to work, I am going to have to accept the risk that he burns my damn barn down.
1583226;1481739402;trinque;there isn't a way to insulate from it and still bother with the bum
1583227;1481739479;mircea_popescu;phf how you mean ?
1583228;1481739515;trinque;"how do I get the bootstrap compiler onto the thing" aside other binary blob needs
1583229;1481739571;mircea_popescu;i thought gentoo bootstraps
1583230;1481739628;trinque;gotta start with a running compiler somewhere
1583231;1481739659;trinque;the stage1 tarball is a built gcc and whatever else is needed to rebuild itself entirely, then proceeds with that system to build the rest
1583232;1481739702;asciilifeform;see earlier mega-thread, re how signing a binaryball is a fundamentally un-vtronic act.
1583233;1481739707;phf;mircea_popescu: oh i'm just talking about yesterday's thread. half those packages have binary blobs in them, some easily removable (like images that come with docs, etc.) some not so much (like internationalization PO files)
1583234;1481739722;asciilifeform;the one 'blob' that is not removable is the bootstrap compiler
1583235;1481739793;mircea_popescu;i'd love tyo think v gentoo is blob free
1583236;1481739807;phf;the bootstrap problem is not trivially solvable.
1583237;1481739808;asciilifeform;how does c-os on c-machine work as 'blob free' ?
1583238;1481739827;asciilifeform;i'd like to hear, and so would ken thompson
1583239;1481739832;mircea_popescu;do you mind ? i'm dreamin' over here...
1583240;1481739837;asciilifeform;lol
1583241;1481739857;phf;"here's this thing that you have to cross-compile however you can"
1583242;1481739898;phf;alternatively "here's this 40 lines of asm forth implementation, and the rules by which you can translate it to x8664 assembly, we will use it to bootstrap proto-scheme, that will be ..."
1583243;1481739900;mircea_popescu;haha - eternal gentoo flame. "here's thins thing that you have to uci-compile"
1583244;1481739903;trinque;leaving the sinful steps unspecified might be a decent strategy.
1583245;1481739905;asciilifeform;now if the only usable c compiler weren't 100MB of ???????? !
1583246;1481739925;trinque;at least people will not be doing things the same exact way, catch same exact diseases each time.
1583247;1481739936;phf;trinque: ha ha.
1583248;1481739937;mircea_popescu;trinque fat chance of that.
1583249;1481739945;*;trinque goes to drink
1583250;1481739952;asciilifeform;compiler is ~the~ monoculture
1583251;1481739990;phf;asciilifeform: i think bsd people like to compile their stack with various "i wrote this c compiler in a weekend" projects, like tcc
1583252;1481740007;phf;it will run like dog, but it will run
1583253;1481740018;asciilifeform;there is a linux variant of this very thing, and yes, like a dog
1583254;1481740068;phf;0.9.26 is 514k tbz2
1583255;1481740113;asciilifeform;i'll point out that trb is ~190k tgz.
1583256;1481740120;asciilifeform;has phf properly absorbed all of it ?
1583257;1481740208;mircea_popescu;thrice cursed running dog.
1583258;1481740233;phf;only for the lack of trying, but even now elsewhere i'd be a regular trb guru :p
1583259;1481740243;asciilifeform;c machine has fundamental, very lethal problems, and i must admit to having come to believe that 'fixing' it is an alluring and ultimately very destructive waste of minds, like perpetuum mobile
1583260;1481740298;mircea_popescu;kinda why we want to limit to code.
1583261;1481740300;asciilifeform;it destroyed 1,001 first-rate people, and will destroy 1,000,001 more. but remains - waste.
1583262;1481740321;asciilifeform;even with ~microscopic~ limit it is an exponential explosion of crapolade and unfixable.
1583263;1481740342;asciilifeform;(even msdos is not fully understood today, and this despite the ~complete~ source leaking in 1998 !)
1583264;1481740375;mircea_popescu;can we set aside a day for the o-woe service and be done with it ?
1583265;1481740442;asciilifeform;it is not 'woe' to point out that sow's ear makes for very poor silk.
1583266;1481740492;mircea_popescu;yes, it is. definitionally, pointing out that sow's ear makes for very poor silk when the decision to use something else is not on the table is called o-woe-ing.
1583267;1481740619;phf;seems like a very traditional thing to do though, sitting around talking about how everything went to shit since the ancestors went away
1583268;1481740647;mircea_popescu;i guess so huh
1583269;1481740948;danielpbarron;trinque, i'm interested in the hardened one, and possibly also "no multilib" ?
1583270;1481741137;asciilifeform;in terms of the pc 'sow', imho a very promising item could be a handmade scheme in asm that fits in l0 cache. the 'nic question' (discussed in earlier thread) could be finessed in some grotesque way, for instance, consider using SLIP !
1583271;1481741173;asciilifeform;this is actually why i bothered to clean up and post the sageprobe thing earlier this year
1583272;1481741188;mircea_popescu;scheme as in, lisp ?
1583273;1481741193;asciilifeform;maybe phf or trinque or whoever, has half of this, and now can more easily come up with other half.
1583274;1481741194;asciilifeform;aha.
1583275;1481741250;asciilifeform;sageprobe was a needle specifically made for this type of sow.
1583276;1481741277;asciilifeform;almost -- sewing machine.
1583277;1481741314;asciilifeform;(on an uncrippled box, you can debug starting from 'reset vector' - i.e. from 0th instruction on powerup)
1583278;1481741800;mircea_popescu;hm.
1583279;1481742292;mircea_popescu;if something like this could be made to spit out html via port 80 i'd almost consider moving trilema.
1583280;1481742325;asciilifeform;not only could it, but there's been a d00d serving up his www on a pic16f84, via slip, since 1990s...
1583281;1481742338;asciilifeform;(now ~throughput~ is different question...)
1583282;1481742369;mircea_popescu;not even c is faster than asm
1583283;1481742414;asciilifeform;~every crackpot eventually writes his asm x86 os.
1583284;1481742434;asciilifeform;to make it do useful work, is somewhat other problem.
1583285;1481742489;trinque;as with fuckgoats -> cardano, sell every useful increment towards goal
1583286;1481742521;trinque;dedicated gossipd hardware would be useful, even kbps slow
1583287;1481742597;asciilifeform;trinque: were you able to get your probe into battlefield condition, and used ? anything missing ?
1583288;1481742639;asciilifeform;because iirc i posted ~everything that is truly needed (other than a couple of undocumented commands, will deal with those some time later in january when 2nd crate is out)
1583289;1481742656;ben_vulpes;worked spiffily for me.
1583290;1481742657;trinque;works just fine, have yet to write something interesting.
1583291;1481742669;trinque;it'll take me some time to have asm skills worth the mention
1583292;1481742715;asciilifeform;trinque: there is one gnarly moment with those -- mode switches
1583293;1481742756;asciilifeform;early firmware versions barfed routinely when cpu switched modes, the last one - more rarely, but still did, it is also exacerbated by the braindamage of gdb
1583294;1481742774;asciilifeform;but otherwise works ok. beware of cache (can lead to incoherency between the instructions executed and what probe sees)
1583295;1481742870;asciilifeform;(for n00bz/log readers -- x86, unlike any chip made by sane people, operates in no fewer than 3 selectable 'bitnesses', each having registers, instructions and entire address modes not present in the other 2)
1583296;1481742916;asciilifeform;(and if you count, e.g., 'unreal mode' -- aka 'flat mode' -- 4! if counting smm: 5!!!!)
1583297;1481742962;asciilifeform;speaking of this horror, whatever the hell happened to that finn
1583298;1481743010;asciilifeform;!#seen kmalkki
1583299;1481743010;a111;2016-10-15 <kmalkki> apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair
1583300;1481743049;asciilifeform;^ the d00d's work was 100% genuine, all of his leads checked out
1583301;1481743068;mircea_popescu;what became of him ?
1583302;1481743070;asciilifeform;i ensymbolified my sage disasms in ida using his symbol table, 100% eaten.
1583303;1481743079;asciilifeform;i have nfi , vanished off the earth afaik.
1583304;1481743135;asciilifeform;perhaps he got bored when he saw that phuctor didn't pop the amd keys...
1583305;1481743169;asciilifeform;( it was from his tip that i found where they lived, and how to parse'em out )
1583306;1481745887;thestringpuller;shinohai: Vitalik Buterin looks to be panicking about ETH price freefall. He's goin on about how "Internet of Money shouldn't cost 5 cents per transaction" on some stupid vine clone this morning
1583307;1481745924;thestringpuller;it's interesting to see the crusty remains as the waterfall continues to dry out
1583308;1481746310;mircea_popescu;heh.
1583309;1481746326;mircea_popescu;2nd most derpopulous of the blockvines eh ?
1583310;1481748561;phf;"airgapped has joined irc channel" i might've just found your opsec issue right there..
1583311;1481748605;shinohai;lel
1583312;1481753149;shinohai;`Yahoo discloses hack that may affect "more than one billion user accounts", "likely distinct" from hack disclosed on Sept 22, 2016`
1583313;1481754430;mircea_popescu;lol!
1583314;1481754439;mircea_popescu;technologee company!
1583315;1481754563;shinohai;"A Yahoo rep disconnected the call when asked if their user database was powered by Ethereum"
1583316;1481754672;mircea_popescu;loller
1583317;1481754782;mircea_popescu;so in random sadness : back when i was a kid, resolution of everything was 1024x768. today as i am no longer a kid, thanks to progress etc, resolution of things is 1366x768, which is OMG SO MUCH BIGGER.
1583318;1481754811;mircea_popescu;notice, of course, that a) it is the same exact height and therefore b) it is idiotically arrogant enough to imagine being so much bigger it can afford things such as... mandatory windows title bars.
1583319;1481754831;mircea_popescu;and so my full screen wine games from 1999 do not fit in my full screen monitors from 2016.
1583320;1481754891;mircea_popescu;(i have meanwhile fixed this, the gutting of ubuntu to make it behave like a silent and self effacing wife rather than a loud and demaning mistress takes a while)
1583321;1481754930;mircea_popescu;meanwhile there's all these "technologee companees" hard at work to come up with random shit one couldn't ever have imaged he'd have to fix IN THE FUTURE.
1583322;1481754943;mircea_popescu;"what do you expect from the future ?" "more shit to fix."
1583323;1481755038;asciilifeform;this is why folx buy 4:3 displays for their dos rooms
1583324;1481755059;mircea_popescu;what'd that have fixed ?
1583325;1481755082;mircea_popescu;768 apparently has been decided by hitler as THE TALLEST PERMISSIBLE NUMBER OF PIXELS.
1583326;1481755108;asciilifeform;i dun have any screens like this
1583327;1481755114;asciilifeform;a reasonably 4:3 is 1600x1200
1583328;1481755120;asciilifeform;even my 21in tubes.
1583329;1481755122;mircea_popescu;how much did you pay for it ?
1583330;1481755134;asciilifeform;~hundy
1583331;1481755140;asciilifeform;(for the eizo), tube was moar
1583332;1481755158;asciilifeform;and no, they aren't made
1583333;1481755158;mircea_popescu;i live in argentina, coupla hundred buys me this lg crap.
1583334;1481755188;asciilifeform;ahaha yeah if you want a ~freshly made~ one, it'll cost you a fleet of migs. to build the factory again.
1583335;1481755203;mircea_popescu;so what are we talkin aboot.
1583336;1481755239;mircea_popescu;yes, if i made it it wouldn't suck. i tell this to people all the time too, "had i fucked your mother instead of that dumbass she lays with, you wouldn't be this fucking useless. go tell ehr that."
1583337;1481755481;mircea_popescu;anyway, to not make this entirely pointless : gtk-window-decorator --replace kills the stupid decorations ; gconf-editor allows you to set the bottom (and top) bar position to -6 which gets rid of it.
1583338;1481755637;mircea_popescu;what a gfx box that wasn't made by monkeys for monkeys would look like apparently remains an open question, ubuntu's not much better than period debian from what i see.
1583339;1481755728;asciilifeform;fwiw ratpoison has 0 window decorations, regardless of how configured.
1583340;1481755923;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1583341;1481755923;mircea_popescu;yeah, prolly would figure in a tmsr out-of-the-box os
1583342;1481755924;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 443507 | Current Difficulty: 2.867657668205504E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: None | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 56 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1583343;1481757415;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MXdor/?raw=true
1583344;1481757415;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1583345;1481757510;phf;asciilifeform: not true ratpoison can be configured to render a 1 pixel border!!1
1583346;1481757529;asciilifeform;phf: news to me...
1583347;1481757533;asciilifeform;but i'll believe.
1583348;1481757542;mircea_popescu;lol legqacy
1583349;1481757548;mircea_popescu;(gdm MUST HAVE 1px)
1583350;1481757763;phf;i actually missed the title bars from ion window manager (http://www.gilesorr.com/papers/otherwm2003/images/ion.manpage.png) because xterm title escape codes is one of the easiest ways to pack a lot of meta information from pretty much any cli app
1583351;1481757805;mircea_popescu;if only
1583352;1481757810;mircea_popescu;they're jus wasted space in gdm
1583353;1481757922;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/yahoo-leaks-again-up-to-1-billion-affected/ << Qntra - Yahoo Leaks Again, Up To 1 Billion Affected!
1583354;1481758287;phf;maybe yahoo leak is just a ploy to tell everyone how many "users" they have.
1583355;1481758319;asciilifeform;'it leaks , ergo it must be still relevant!111'
1583356;1481758391;shinohai;Verizon paid the Russians to do it so they could buy in lower.
1583357;1481758449;phf;putin did it (c) (tm)
1583358;1481758856;trinque;those title escape codes have a lot to do with why I use exwm. c-x b (helm-buffers) then a few keystrokes and I can move through a lot of terminals quickly.
1583359;1481759372;shinohai;Roger Ver: "But a bunch of bitcoin supporters don't like centralized web wallets? That's crazy talk."  http://archive.is/GHUXj
1583360;1481759973;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at republican camp, my god these slave-made linzer cookies are fucking fabulous.
1583361;1481760010;mircea_popescu;anyone even use webwallets anymore ?!
1583362;1481760155;shinohai;Not anyone in their right mind, or maybe they need TradeFortress to reappear and inculcate that lesson again.
1583363;1481761233;mircea_popescu;the notion that anyone ~even wants~ yahoo...
1583364;1481761261;mircea_popescu;whole shebang's like one of those scottish "castles", worth maybe 50k for the stone and negative however millions for its unfunded obligations
1583365;1481761276;mircea_popescu;in yahoo's case, all the shitheads running around thinking them,selves experts and entitled to salaries
1583366;1481761281;mircea_popescu;starting with the ceo.
1583367;1481761420;*;shinohai finds it interesting that *all these hacks* have occurred under Marissa Mayer at helm.
1583368;1481762279;mircea_popescu;marissa mayer 2020!
1583369;1481762511;shinohai;"She won't  break the glass ceiling. she'll just leave the building unlocked!"
1583370;1481762624;mircea_popescu;prostitution is when you get paid. melissa meyer is when you do it for free.
1583371;1481762674;phf;before tumblr mayogendered there was a tumblr weird internet culture, thatused to post porn, internet explorer running on windows 98 screenshots, weird 3d renderings, porn, lisp screenshots, etc. basically the whole scene got destroyed by mayer with the whole "all porn is now marked as nsfw and force removed from all the search results". the weirdest, shoot-self-in-foot
1583372;1481762677;phf;move
1583373;1481762677;mircea_popescu;o btw, check out the cognates : (more, less) > (mayor, lawyer)
1583374;1481762705;mircea_popescu;tumblr porn still alive and well
1583375;1481762716;mircea_popescu;but yes, you correctly identify a hidden reference in my linkage
1583376;1481762764;phf;yeah, but as a "porn only" niche, tumblrs that would occasionally post porn mixed with random other found junk all disappeared
1583377;1481762772;mircea_popescu;ya
1583378;1481762806;mircea_popescu;also a very stupid "age" bs.
1583379;1481762820;mircea_popescu;as if teens don't wanna watch it go in
1583380;1481762863;asciilifeform;was it mayer who sent megatonne of gratis hardware to ftmead out of 'patriotism' ? or was it the other Great Female CEO
1583381;1481762891;asciilifeform;nm it was fiorina , apparently
1583382;1481762922;asciilifeform;i have these 2 symlinked inside my head for some reason
1583383;1481762982;mircea_popescu;they're not that distinct
1583384;1481762993;mircea_popescu;sorta obama, but in "woman" rather than "black" theme.
1583385;1481764820;asciilifeform;re much earlier thread:
1583386;1481764845;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was apparently wrong, eizo S2133-BK is still made & sold
1583387;1481764859;asciilifeform;about 1k usd new in box.
1583388;1481764981;asciilifeform;honest 4:3 thing, ips, 1600x1200, the worx.
1583389;1481764997;mircea_popescu;im not gonna import it to this shithole.
1583390;1481765013;mircea_popescu;buenos aires ~= foxhole in vietnam.
1583391;1481765025;asciilifeform;have it put in the next case of strega or what was it.
1583392;1481765037;mircea_popescu;i do not wish for it to exist here.
1583393;1481765051;asciilifeform;that dire, huh
1583394;1481765059;mircea_popescu;let the orcs pochoclo.
1583395;1481765078;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have never hated a people, or anything, even vaguely in the same ballpark as i hate these mutant retardoids.
1583396;1481765087;mircea_popescu;if i could glass it right now, i'd glass it right now,
1583397;1481765091;mircea_popescu;nqa.
1583398;1481765099;asciilifeform;maybe revisit usa ! you'll be cured in three minutes.
1583399;1481765124;mircea_popescu;i don't think you grok the basics. which is understandable - nobody does.
1583400;1481765153;phf;asciilifeform: is it matte?
1583401;1481765161;asciilifeform;which basics. i import eizo here too, they aren't born in usa
1583402;1481765166;asciilifeform;phf: of course
1583403;1481765171;mircea_popescu;let me indulge your sweet ignorance. the sidewalks here are paved, which is stupid but whatever. ALL curbs contain bumped tiles all around. it drives women nuts because anti-heels landimine.
1583404;1481765185;mircea_popescu;for a long time we thought they were idiots in the sense, "it's for securidad - anti ice". except it never ices.
1583405;1481765195;mircea_popescu;today, two years later, we finally figured what they're REALLY for :
1583406;1481765201;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i must report, these are being installed here ! just recently made mandatory.
1583407;1481765215;mircea_popescu;the locals are such utter imbeciles, without those things they'd walk right into traffic. THEY DO NOT KNOW road is a thing.
1583408;1481765230;mircea_popescu;you know those bumpers on speedway for sleepy truck drivers ? that. except for mouthbreathing bipedals.
1583409;1481765243;mircea_popescu;and this isn't the end of it, or the peak of it. this is just a random example out of an endless pile.
1583410;1481765267;mircea_popescu;it was recently established that the best mental model for "wtf they're doing" is : if they've not seen/heard of a thing in the past two days, THEY UTTERLY FORGOT IT EXISTS.
1583411;1481765277;mircea_popescu;perfectly fits the universal pattern of missed deliveries/meetings/etc.
1583412;1481765295;asciilifeform;egypt was different?
1583413;1481765297;mircea_popescu;i firmly believe that most of the employment turnover here is, long weekend, after which people literally forget they worked there.
1583414;1481765300;mircea_popescu;very different.
1583415;1481765315;mircea_popescu;egypt had an intensity of making a living you've not seen since jewish ghettos.
1583416;1481765505;*;asciilifeform can picture this 
1583417;1481765619;asciilifeform;2 or 3 missed printolade boats and argentina could , in theory,  convert to egypt
1583418;1481765635;mircea_popescu;i don't think so.
1583419;1481765639;asciilifeform;( iirc this nearly happened in early 2000s..?)
1583420;1481765668;mircea_popescu;argentina appears a manufactured africa. not dumb by evaporation, but dumb from selective fractionation. apparently all the idiots came here. worst of italians, which is already pretty well selected for fail etc
1583421;1481765718;mircea_popescu;basically argentina the country is the statal equivalent of the us profession of lawyer.
1583422;1481766025;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583359 << hilarious idiot parade, btw, i nearly missed this
1583423;1481766025;a111;Logged on 2016-12-14 23:49 shinohai: Roger Ver: "But a bunch of bitcoin supporters don't like centralized web wallets? That's crazy talk."  http://archive.is/GHUXj
1583424;1481766894;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6EE7B13E060CF82A9C48A50B4BDD8AFC0ADB8FADCC588CE01978A65768FD58B4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2163...9329 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.129.51.96 (ssh-rsa key from 95.129.51.96 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1583425;1481766975;mircea_popescu;anyone making bets on phuctored count end of 2017 ?
1583426;1481767384;mod6;as far as broken moduli? or dups?
1583427;1481767399;mircea_popescu;moduli
1583428;1481767411;mod6;I'll say 1431 b0rk3d moduli.
1583429;1481767602;mod6;lol, that's probably gonna be way low, but i'll stick with it.
1583430;1481767623;mircea_popescu;o.O
1583431;1481767633;mircea_popescu;im thinking like > 10k
1583432;1481767657;mod6;yeah, certainly could be.  i guess i wasn't initially thinking about the SSH keys.
1583433;1481767658;mircea_popescu;of course nopt much of a bet, someojne could just make 1mn bad mods and pump them in.
1583434;1481767670;mod6;ah, ya.
1583435;1481767689;asciilifeform;^ this is doomed to eventually happen
1583436;1481767708;mircea_popescu;yes. marissa meyer figuring out math, also.
1583437;1481767712;asciilifeform;at which point intake hopper will immediately go to wot-only
1583438;1481767766;asciilifeform;(not so many 'wild' submissions this year, the only notable 'pop' that comes to mind that was 'from wild', was the german thing)
1583439;1481767790;mod6;ah ya
1583440;1481767861;mircea_popescu;o noes! but how could this be! open source is a viable model! with a billion fly eyes, all weak mods are shallow! clinton 2016!
1583441;1481768061;mircea_popescu;i'm getting into a very "code sharing good ; open source bad" mood over here.
1583442;1481768068;mircea_popescu;CSinOS.
1583443;1481768074;mircea_popescu;code sharing is not open source, bitchez!
1583444;1481768131;asciilifeform;http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3144685738025120@naggum.no.html << see also
1583445;1481768244;mircea_popescu;"code should be made available for review to any user ~of the appropriate fame level~"!
1583446;1481768305;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/bitcoin-network-difficulty-up-8-16-yellen-announces-higher-interest-rate-target-hours-before-increase/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Up ~8.16%, Yellen Announces Higher Interest Rate Target Hours Before Increase
1583447;1481768328;mircea_popescu;lol so what, increase moved ? :D
1583448;1481768350;mircea_popescu;anyway, i guess pete_dushenski wins that interest rate bet ?
1583449;1481768494;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Bitcoin Difficulty up, yellen tries to premept?
1583450;1481768503;mircea_popescu;oic
1583451;1481768866;mircea_popescu;poor lockheed.
1583452;1481768973;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i haven't won quite yet. i let ben_vulpes change the time window to only include trump's exact and official term, not the transition period, so jan 20 and four years onwards.
1583453;1481768985;mircea_popescu;ah ah
1583454;1481769016;mircea_popescu;lol watch that they set it at 8.75 on jan 19th and then spend a decade shashing monotonously to 4.25
1583455;1481769029;mircea_popescu;JUST TO FUCK WITH YOUR MIND
1583456;1481769052;pete_dushenski;lmao just to make ben_vulpes even richer old joo
1583457;1481769083;mircea_popescu;oic, HE's the joo
1583458;1481769140;pete_dushenski;well, not the only one ofc. you're also one, stan idem. then there's adlai and i dunno who else we can annoint with the honourary distinction.
1583459;1481769157;mircea_popescu;wait me ?! i'm not even named benjamin!
1583460;1481769174;pete_dushenski;except for the whole "jews are niggars are enemies" angle, which i haven't quite resolved for myself yet
1583461;1481769204;pete_dushenski;!~google site:trilema.com i'm obviously a jew
1583462;1481769205;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: No matches found.
1583463;1481769209;pete_dushenski;baloney!
1583464;1481769210;mircea_popescu;ah those are the journajews.
1583465;1481769253;mircea_popescu;terrrribly sorry to tell you sir we here at mp house got all cock parts. striiictly full penis.
1583466;1481769259;mats;i wish i was born into a jewish family
1583467;1481769272;mircea_popescu;in china or in general ?
1583468;1481769301;mats;being a chinese jew would be useful i bet
1583469;1481769316;mircea_popescu;chijew!
1583470;1481769323;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: where does this tiny jewdick meme originate ? i can't say it, um, measures up with anectodal experience.
1583471;1481769364;pete_dushenski;mats: my younger brother had the priviledge of betting a chijew on trip to eretz israel. they exist.
1583472;1481769375;mats;how many dongs were involved in your survey, pete_dushenski
1583473;1481769379;mats;for science
1583474;1481769389;mircea_popescu;the pact of the covenant or some shit ? you know, where they cut bits off babies.
1583475;1481769443;pete_dushenski;mats: lol. at full attention : 1 in-the-flesh. which is really the only way to tell anything. seen tons in whatever camp shower but doesn't tell you much.
1583476;1481769460;pete_dushenski;!~google chinese jews
1583477;1481769461;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: Kaifeng Jews - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews>; Kaifeng Jews - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews>; Chinese Jews of Ancient Lineage Huddle Under Pressure - The ...: <http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/world/asia/china-kaifeng-jews.html>
1583478;1481769471;pete_dushenski;arite. kaifeng.
1583479;1481769557;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: ok but haircuts don't make you shorter. even going bald doesn't shrink a man, though a correlation obv exists with advanced age.
1583480;1481769562;phf;i read somewhere that at some point china top sellers were books like "how to raise a child like a jew" etc.
1583481;1481769604;mircea_popescu;when i was a kid my hair was like 5% of my height and i got pix to prove it!
1583482;1481769631;pete_dushenski;lol. being chinese is so fucking opposite of being a jew i don't even know where to start. number 1 selling book in nigeria might as well be "how to raise child like a norwegian"
1583483;1481769647;pete_dushenski;and i hope it is!
1583484;1481769669;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i also have a solid 2" added to height atm. 'manbun'.
1583485;1481769777;pete_dushenski;so musk named to trump advisory panel. too soon to declare tod on tesla perhaps. or trump has short squeeze on full blast.
1583486;1481769906;mircea_popescu;he does a lot of this "name everyone, use half". republican dork on capitol hill also named, s.b.'s aide.\
1583487;1481769934;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> ah those are the journajews. << Like mouse can mean "quiet girl with glasses" or actual vermin
1583488;1481769944;mircea_popescu;like.
1583489;1481770021;BingoBoingo;Anal-ology!
1583490;1481770032;phf;"And when they discover he is Jewish? “The Chinese think we are the smartest people in the world, after the Chinese,” he said. “They say, ‘Very clever, very good at business.’ It’s an honor to be Jewish in China. They say they would like to imitate the Jews.” Among the best-selling books in China this year were “The Jewish People’s Bible for Business and Managing the World” and “The Jewish Way of Raising Children.”"
1583491;1481770039;phf;http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/01/05/kosher-takeout
1583492;1481770204;mod6;they're saying -24 deg. F/-31 deg. C here on Saturday :/
1583493;1481770223;mod6;too cold to shoot birds even!
1583494;1481770231;BingoBoingo;OMG, almost at the -40 convergence point mod6
1583495;1481770248;mircea_popescu;heh it's 20 here.
1583496;1481770264;pete_dushenski;mod6: careful not to freeze your foreskin off :P
1583497;1481770273;mod6;haha
1583498;1481770277;BingoBoingo;Polar penis is a real condishun
1583499;1481770285;mircea_popescu;i think that counts as a freejew
1583500;1481770377;phf;a jewbie
1583501;1481770395;pete_dushenski;sounds organic, that'll cost extra
1583502;1481770429;mircea_popescu;lol
1583503;1481770599;mod6;when it gets that cold for a number of days or whatever, getting back up to 0 feels nice!
1583504;1481770609;mod6;fuckin crazy
1583505;1481770662;pete_dushenski;mod6: and if you don't plug your cars in or park in a (preferably heated) garage, it's uber-ville for you.
1583506;1481770693;*;pete_dushenski was rather annoyed that his fleet wouldn't start during recent cold snap. fists were shaken.
1583507;1481770701;mod6;yeah, it usually helps to plug 'em in, especially if it gets down below -25 deg. F.
1583508;1481770777;mircea_popescu;wtf bs engines are these ?
1583509;1481770792;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/even-in-israel-more-and-more-parents-choose-not-to-circumcise-their-sons-1.436421 << somewhere around 2% of little jewboys aren't letting the mohel suck 'em off at day 8.
1583510;1481770793;mod6;anyone with antifreeze
1583511;1481770819;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: it's usually the battery, not the engine.
1583512;1481770835;pete_dushenski;cells... freeze.
1583513;1481770858;mircea_popescu;hm. i dunno man, cold start in -20 ambient was a solved problem in the 90s.
1583514;1481770875;mircea_popescu;mah old mercs never had the issue. of course... diesel. but certainly only shitty chino batteries froze.
1583515;1481770914;mod6;so, the batteries don't do that great in the cold. but the real problem is the antifreeze.  plugging in the blockwarmer runs current through the antifreeze so it won't freeze.
1583516;1481770950;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: -20 is no prob. it's -30 or -40 with windchill that's the issue, even with old merc.
1583517;1481770957;mircea_popescu;that yes.
1583518;1481770966;*;mircea_popescu recalls a bunch of impromptu gasoline fires.
1583519;1481770982;mircea_popescu;"wtf are you doing" "warming the engine"
1583520;1481770988;pete_dushenski;lol
1583521;1481771023;mod6;when my old man was a kid, out on the farm he would put hot coals from a fire under the oil pan in like a '40 pickup to get the oil viscous enough to crank it over when it was cold like that.
1583522;1481771036;mod6;or so I was told.
1583523;1481771049;mircea_popescu;i believe it.
1583524;1481771061;pete_dushenski;thankfully there is a splendid and ultra-cheap service called 'ama' here and they'll boost even the most frozen cars with what must be 1000amps, up to 5x per year for $80
1583525;1481771099;mod6;cool
1583526;1481771149;mod6;i hope they flood the rinks this week.
1583527;1481771152;pete_dushenski;ya, never needed it till this winter when i lost my beloved u/g heated parking. still adapting.
1583528;1481771161;pete_dushenski;mod6: that, yes!
1583529;1481771200;pete_dushenski;got new skates to try this season
1583530;1481771227;mod6;nice.  i need a new stick, then I'm ready.
1583531;1481771361;mod6;if you try to flood the rink when it's -25 like that, the ice will turn out too brittle and get this weird horizontal fracturing... coming off in like sheets.
1583532;1481771392;mod6;but if they do it like now at 0, then give it a chance to go into the deep cold, you'll end up with reall excellent hard ice.
1583533;1481771392;mod6;fast ice.
1583534;1481771398;mod6;*really
1583535;1481771453;mircea_popescu;yeah gotta flood it at like 1
1583536;1481771502;mod6;yeah, i hope they're out there tonight.
1583537;1481771546;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583509 << 0 cockchopping in su fwiw.
1583538;1481771546;a111;Logged on 2016-12-15 02:59 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/even-in-israel-more-and-more-parents-choose-not-to-circumcise-their-sons-1.436421 << somewhere around 2% of little jewboys aren't letting the mohel suck 'em off at day 8.
1583539;1481771647;mod6;i always wanted to moonlight as a zamboni driver
1583540;1481771654;mod6;lol
1583541;1481771721;pete_dushenski;!~google best ice in nhl
1583542;1481771723;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: Ice palaces: NHL arenas ranked - Chicago Tribune: <http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/chi-nhl-arenas-ranked-photogallery.html>; NHL Players Poll: Which team has the worst home ice ? - Yahoo Sports: <http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-players-poll--which-team-has-the-worst-home-ice-174332400.html>; Best /worst ice in the NHL - HFBoards: (1 more message)
1583543;1481771739;pete_dushenski;pretty sure edm is usually up there.
1583544;1481771768;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: 0 'religion' other than 'stalin is god' too.
1583545;1481771815;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: plenty of religions.
1583546;1481771834;mod6;pete_dushenski: yeah, i can imagine that florida has horrible ice.
1583547;1481771856;*;mircea_popescu skated in georgia. wasn't too bad.
1583548;1481771901;mod6;im sure it has probably a lot more to do with how they operate the refrigeration system than anything
1583549;1481771927;mircea_popescu;fo sho
1583550;1481771933;pete_dushenski;mod6: ambient humidity too
1583551;1481771937;mod6;air temp in the arena matters too.
1583552;1481771938;mod6;yeah
1583553;1481771942;mircea_popescu;georgia is humin.
1583554;1481771947;mircea_popescu;humid*
1583555;1481771955;mod6;and if you're not willing to spend the cash on the air cooling, that can make problems.
1583556;1481771955;*;phf has a reasonable open rink a block away
1583557;1481771960;asciilifeform;( in the religion pete_dushenski was thinking of, stalin played role of 'devil' rather than god, since '53 at any rate )
1583558;1481771987;phf;not sure what they do to it, but pretty sure they can run it in summer
1583559;1481771999;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: it was a time of 'progress'. old traditions had to be downgraded. ex nihilo 'traditions' upgraded.
1583560;1481772049;pete_dushenski;phf: we have year-round ice rink... in shopping mall.
1583561;1481772059;asciilifeform;for whatever reason, mutilating children was not in fashion there, then, fwiw.
1583562;1481772141;pete_dushenski;probably an experiment in seeing if socialists could still be manufaktured without choppychop.
1583563;1481772154;pete_dushenski;who says socialists never try new things ?
1583564;1481772216;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: are you talking georgia us or caucasus ?
1583565;1481772402;mircea_popescu;us
1583566;1481772428;pete_dushenski;aha.
1583567;1481772430;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform skopiti!
1583568;1481772441;*;pete_dushenski to whack shuttlecock
1583569;1481772442;mod6;The Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary in like 1980...
1583570;1481772449;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has first-class time machine, does he know.
1583571;1481772461;mircea_popescu;lol
1583572;1481772463;mod6;they've had hockey down there for quite a while
1583573;1481772861;mod6;!~tlsb
1583574;1481772861;jhvh1;mod6: Error: "tlsb" is not a valid command.
1583575;1481772876;mod6;!~tslb
1583576;1481772879;jhvh1;mod6: Time since last block: 33 minutes and 59 seconds
1583577;1481773276;mod6;tomorrow is supposed to be 83 in BA.
1583578;1481773288;mod6;that sounds so nice
1583579;1481773288;mircea_popescu;aha
1583580;1481773301;mircea_popescu;weather here is nb.
1583581;1481773317;mod6;nice day for a walk down past the canal to the park.
1583582;1481773365;mircea_popescu;yeah i think ima go for a nightwalk later.
1583583;1481773586;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6EE7B13E060CF82A9C48A50B4BDD8AFC0ADB8FADCC588CE01978A65768FD58B4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...5333 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.129.51.96 (ssh-rsa key from 95.129.51.96 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1583584;1481773798;phf;mircea_popescu: "take everything out of Might and Personality/Intelligence respectively, pump up Personality/Intelligence respectively and Speed" is that what it's supposed to say?
1583585;1481773822;mircea_popescu;yea actually.
1583586;1481773852;mircea_popescu;cleric needs personality doesn't need int and sorc vice-versa. so that respectively works magic.
1583587;1481773865;mircea_popescu;fine example of how to fuck a parser, this.
1583588;1481773884;phf;aaah
1583589;1481773888;mircea_popescu;respectively = natural language DWIM keyword.
1583590;1481774770;phf;mircea_popescu: did you have to install any of the original windows blob dlls to make graphics not-screwy?
1583591;1481774803;mircea_popescu;nope.
1583592;1481774809;phf;hmm, poop
1583593;1481774823;mircea_popescu;use wine 1.9 series though. are you using it via play on linux scriptage ?
1583594;1481774840;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583452 << what let, you drafted it incorrectly and i fixed it
1583595;1481774840;a111;Logged on 2016-12-15 02:29 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i haven't won quite yet. i let ben_vulpes change the time window to only include trump's exact and official term, not the transition period, so jan 20 and four years onwards.
1583596;1481774847;phf;nope, on mac, which might be my undoing
1583597;1481774870;mircea_popescu;oh i have nfi about mac emulatrons.
1583598;1481774989;phf;yeah, i was trying to use straight wine, but there's apparently "play on mac"
1583599;1481775279;mircea_popescu;ah. well make sure your wine's over 1.6 or so, pre that their vc emulation is ~shit.
1583600;1481786606;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes nah, see i ~let~ you pretend that it's still 1860 and that it takes the president-elect 75 goddam days to travel from his midwest farm to dc, instead of, y'know, the president-elect having his own boeing 737. the trumpreich started in the wee hours of november 9th 2016 regardless of when he takes the keys to the new shack. i just thought i'd give you every chance there was, including narrowing the
1583601;1481786608;pete_dushenski;time frame a smidge. my first draft was every bit as correct, if not moreso in regards to the commencement of his influence on markets. trump ain't rollin' in no horse 'n' buggy and no one's waiting to read about his acceptance speech via pony express. it's 2016 dawg and news travels like you wouldn't believe.
1583602;1481787270;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/tOJEw << duterte is the gift that just keeps on giving (like the rest of his lovely compatriots imho)
1583603;1481787273;pete_dushenski;"In October Duterte compared himself to Adolf Hitler and said he would be “happy to slaughter” three million drug addicts. He later apologised for the Hitler reference but said he was “emphatic” about wanting to kill the millions of addicts. Since his election, police have reported killing 2,086 people in anti-drug operations. More than 3,000 others have been killed in unexplained circumstances,
1583604;1481787275;pete_dushenski;according to official figures."
1583605;1481787290;ben_vulpes;gracious of you
1583606;1481787315;pete_dushenski;aww shucks you're just saying that
1583607;1481787422;ben_vulpes;lmk when i don't have to pay for useless insurance any more
1583608;1481787471;ben_vulpes;or, even better, when there is only *national* ins corp
1583609;1481787505;ben_vulpes;my northern friends have such fond things to say about their local statal monopoly
1583610;1481787524;pete_dushenski;car or health ?
1583611;1481787559;ben_vulpes;'health'
1583612;1481787585;ben_vulpes;'insurance'
1583613;1481787606;ben_vulpes;meanwhile portland gets 3 inches of snow and omg people sitting on freeways for 5+ hours
1583614;1481787664;pete_dushenski;sounds like the whole town forgot to put winter tires on their bikes.
1583615;1481787684;ben_vulpes;subarus don't need snow tires bro
1583616;1481787696;ben_vulpes;this car was thirty thousand dollars it can handle a little snow okay
1583617;1481787732;pete_dushenski;g-wagen idem. or wait, you cascadians only drive subarus and teslas eh.
1583618;1481787747;*;ben_vulpes doesn't drive much at all
1583619;1481787751;*;ben_vulpes bbl
1583620;1481803641;mircea_popescu;the car can handle a little snow just liek the cunt can handle a little octopus
1583621;1481803645;mircea_popescu;problem is, can the driver.
1583622;1481804147;davout;win
1583623;1481804191;mircea_popescu;:p
1583624;1481804283;trinque;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaksWCnHaDM << portland drivers in winter
1583625;1481808725;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D6FE41567AD7A4AD32619881908F281A817C926DDDB4784420561E0AB1228599 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1958...4287 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.170.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 66.170.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1583626;1481808725;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9EF0DDF743561CD55FAB31B570AE60A011AD37E38177186C362AE07E408F8AE8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1723...0723 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.108.236.71 (ssh-rsa key from 213.108.236.71 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (defis77-04.netensia.net. FR)
1583627;1481815228;phf;oh i just needed to switch it to software rendering. it's still smooth af but all the artifacts are gone
1583628;1481815240;mircea_popescu;ha!
1583629;1481815345;asciilifeform;phf: what was this? 'xplane' ?
1583630;1481815410;phf;asciilifeform: mm7
1583631;1481815437;asciilifeform;aah
1583632;1481815475;asciilifeform;phf building nostalgiatron ?
1583633;1481815572;phf;nah, just wanted to play mm7 on my mac. if i was building nostalgiatron, i'd just put a windows 95 on it, tbh. if i don't put an x60 to good use, i might just that to it
1583634;1481815593;asciilifeform;i tried this, ended up barfing from tft screen
1583635;1481815635;asciilifeform;(sit just-so or it looks like soup, and certainly doesn't beat the trinitron crt on which i originally played the classics)
1583636;1481815678;phf;oh, blarg. well there's a range of late 90s laptops on ebay still. i'm not sure if i'm ready to spend time on the whole
1583637;1481815684;phf;"authentic replication"
1583638;1481815701;asciilifeform;well yes we all have pile of '90s lappys
1583639;1481815738;asciilifeform;i, funnily enough, got a (brand-new! yes it sat in a crate for 15 years) 21" trinitron, but no free desk space yet to put it...
1583640;1481815740;phf;i'm not sure i have any that fit the sweet spot of "beefy machine from 2001"
1583641;1481815792;*;asciilifeform is sitting in the middle of a forest of wires, FUCKGOATSen hanging from test harnesses etc
1583642;1481815845;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/yvx2u/?raw=true
1583643;1481815845;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1583644;1481815847;phf;that's the thing, once it starts pushing 3+ hours for setup i'd rather be hacking on cmucl or similar
1583645;1481815850;asciilifeform;btw phun phakt for mircea_popescu -- you can plug the original v1 green rng into that thing, and it'll run
1583646;1481815867;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9EF0DDF743561CD55FAB31B570AE60A011AD37E38177186C362AE07E408F8AE8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1512...2879 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.108.236.71 (ssh-rsa key from 213.108.236.71 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (defis77-04.netensia.net. FR)
1583647;1481815867;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D6FE41567AD7A4AD32619881908F281A817C926DDDB4784420561E0AB1228599 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...4123 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.170.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 66.170.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1583648;1481815911;phf;only reason i'm trying mm7 is because setup seemed easy (and it is. stock wine 1.9 works in software rendering)
1583649;1481815977;mircea_popescu;win.
1583650;1481815986;phf;fwiw play on mac scripts didn't add anything except for a dodgy point and click interface that downloads a bunch of stuff i don't need. game still doesn't play well with native rendering. i suspect tha some specific binary blob version of directx (or precursor?) will solve the issue, but...
1583651;1481816226;mircea_popescu;eh no real need for hardware acceleration on the old games anyway
1583652;1481817224;Framedragger;asciilifeform: not sure if you'd make use of this, but since i needed this myself, may as well link to it -- ssh banners for all ~16M ssh servers: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s1/s1_banners.tar.gz
1583653;1481817242;Framedragger;(numbers in filenames and internal line order maps to openpgp files i gave you, fwiw)
1583654;1481817262;Framedragger;(format in TXTs is simple CSV: ipv4address,banner  --  the latter may contain spaces, commas etc, but any surrounding whitespace (incl newlines) is stripped. there's only one banner per ipv4 even though *same* scan sometimes returned multiple (slightly different, e.g. includes or excludes OS string) banners.)
1583655;1481817281;Framedragger;(the criterion for choosing which banner to report is a simple "max string length.") (again, note, all of those "multiple" banners were from a single scan event, same date, so no historical knowledge is lost by only reporting single banner per single (ip,port) pair.) hope this makes sense.
1583656;1481817719;mircea_popescu;nice
1583657;1481817769;mircea_popescu;i think i may run some stats on this.
1583658;1481817866;Framedragger;asciilifeform: ah, correction: s1_banners.tar.gz is only the first ~13.3M servers - i.e. the first set of thirteen parcels i gave you - here's the rest - i.e. the three additional parcels (i know phuctor won't be processing these for a while, but, for completeness): http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s2/s2_banners.tar.gz
1583659;1481817886;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: yeah, same here, fairly curious re. unique versionstring numbers, etc...
1583660;1481817888;asciilifeform;oh hah neato
1583661;1481817890;asciilifeform;ty Framedragger
1583662;1481817966;Framedragger;(note, some of those version strings contain OS string, some of them don't; these TXTs store versionstrings-as-they-were-seen, without any ssh-server/OS version separation.)
1583663;1481818053;Framedragger;(and @all, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/ is the canonical URL for all data gathered from the ssh scans. includes raw stderr logs from ssh-keyscan utility, e.g. http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s1/1_err_scan.log ; scripts for processing these are http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/write_ssh_banners.py and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/process_all_banners.sh )
1583664;1481818065;mircea_popescu;nice.
1583665;1481818098;asciilifeform;next time (as inevitably must) that i regrind phuctor and its db, i'ma stuff these in retroactively
1583666;1481818268;Framedragger;fwiw i plan to make these available through a search interface - will put stuff into db. i think i'll make it so that one can link to particular db entry via that deterministic-alf-fingerprint you concocted
1583667;1481818281;Framedragger;so no need for this (but obvs would be cool, too)
1583668;1481818519;mircea_popescu;alrighty, lettuce see what gems lie in the data oncle Framedragger has provied.
1583669;1481818573;mircea_popescu;Framedragger what's ip for siphnos.mkj.lt ?
1583670;1481818596;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: 5.196.95.135
1583671;1481818606;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: (mkj.lt is different server from siphnos.mkj.lt)
1583672;1481818631;Framedragger;<< http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571616 (second part of msg)
1583673;1481818631;a111;Logged on 2016-11-20 23:28 Framedragger:  the *banners.txt's are my partial cleanup, *_err_scan.log's are the original stderr's (with some junk in them). but i will clean this myself later. and siphnos.mkj.lt is where i'll host phuctor-related data. (it's on a separate unused vps, got an 'ok' from $work for now.)
1583674;1481818633;mircea_popescu;ty
1583675;1481818647;*;Framedragger Framedragger is dig util over irc
1583676;1481818718;mircea_popescu;lol
1583677;1481818769;mircea_popescu;do you happen to have handy also link to the original discussion in july that lead to you scanning ?
1583678;1481818787;Framedragger;hm notrly but one min
1583679;1481818823;Framedragger;(ah no need to -excludeterms in btcbase search i guess :p )
1583680;1481818828;Framedragger;*no way
1583681;1481818856;mircea_popescu;bah i just fucked it heh.
1583682;1481818862;*;mircea_popescu concatenated gzip archives
1583683;1481818970;Framedragger;i accidentally overwrote legit log file with `tar cfz` like 20min ago
1583684;1481818982;Framedragger;gotta love it
1583685;1481819007;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469663
1583686;1481819007;a111;Logged on 2016-05-20 17:53 mircea_popescu: also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ?
1583687;1481819027;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469693
1583688;1481819027;a111;Logged on 2016-05-20 18:03 Framedragger: "also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ?" << heh, k, i'm up for this, might as well be useful while i brood
1583689;1481819074;mircea_popescu;ty!
1583690;1481819163;Framedragger;(i should write down some stuff before i forget, such as, figuring out ssh-keyscan limits etc.; luckily i wasn't dumb enough to delete any scripts written etc...)
1583691;1481819655;Framedragger;^ http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/crap-from-scans-to-be-sorted/
1583692;1481819683;mircea_popescu;!~calc 13189523 + 2456665
1583693;1481819684;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 13189523 + 2456665 = 15646188
1583694;1481819692;mircea_popescu;confirmed.
1583695;1481821333;trinque;http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/comey-fbi-russia-trump/2016/12/14/id/764008/# << rift widening between brennan's CIA and comey's FBI
1583696;1481822779;mircea_popescu;Framedragger interestingly enough dropbear official git mirror is in mkj/dropbear
1583697;1481822810;Framedragger;wut
1583698;1481822846;Framedragger;(a friend sysadmin and google dude uses mkj.lt, too, but this would be quite amusing)
1583699;1481822873;Framedragger;ah, https://github.com/mkj/dropbear
1583700;1481822880;Framedragger;no connection to mkj.lt :p but pretty lulzy
1583701;1481822917;Framedragger;("mkj" is a pretty random acronym of the first names of three people who started up the server in ~2008)
1583702;1481823099;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/15/obama-the-lame/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Obama the lame.
1583703;1481824037;mircea_popescu;in other news my god grep -i is a lot slower than grep plain
1583704;1481826949;ben_vulpes;http://imgur.com/a/Qb0V1 << portland gets another inch of snow
1583705;1481826962;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: meatwot says congratulations on fuckgoats
1583706;1481827068;trinque;ahaha great pictures.
1583707;1481827081;asciilifeform;ty ben_vulpes & co.
1583708;1481828613;thestringpuller;ben_vulpes: i'll be there probably in January. ugh not looking forward to driving in that shit.
1583709;1481828655;ben_vulpes;thestringpuller: it'll be gone in a week
1583710;1481829607;ben_vulpes;that's uncommon
1583711;1481829831;mod6;lol, nice pics.
1583712;1481829855;mod6;i like how the guy couldn't keep it out of the ditch even with chains on the tires.
1583713;1481829863;mod6;n00b
1583714;1481829865;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, http://taint.org/2008/05/16/165301a.html
1583715;1481829930;ben_vulpes;mod6: i figured you in particular would appreciate the ineptitude on display
1583716;1481830007;mod6;ben_vulpes: indeed, there's like 1.5" of snow on the ground.
1583717;1481830040;mod6;where it does get a bit hairy is when you're going down the freeway with over 6+"
1583718;1481833110;phf;https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/verizon-weighs-scrapping-yahoo-deal-on-hacking-liability
1583719;1481834151;mircea_popescu;lmao
1583720;1481834249;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 462`750 (2.957589%) advertise ROSSSH << lul!!
1583721;1481834261;asciilifeform;do recall, they are probably ~all~ phuctorable, these.
1583722;1481834298;mircea_popescu;ikr!
1583723;1481834308;mircea_popescu;anyway making an addendum with opensshversions nao
1583724;1481834357;mircea_popescu;which promises to deliver.
1583725;1481834889;mircea_popescu;in other news, openssh.com is down ?
1583726;1481834982;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/ << Trilema - Internet Census, 2016.
1583727;1481835352;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/#footnote_10_70469 << check that shit out.
1583728;1481835819;asciilifeform;pretty lulzy
1583729;1481835835;asciilifeform;and listen to the 'music of silence' from the kompooter s333k00000r1ty folx...
1583730;1481835868;phf;heh, just noticed that my glyf.org is in the banners list, with a rather embarrassingly verbose banner
1583731;1481836017;mircea_popescu;this might be the most covering census ever published. ~everything else seems to go by the "we sampled 500 here and 500 there - if it's good enough to guess your president it should be good enough for the net too!"
1583732;1481836150;phf;hmm, when i wc -l stuff in s1_banners.tar.gz i only get 13189523 records, where'd the other 1:  2456665
1583733;1481836150;phf; come from?
1583734;1481836370;phf;ah, s2
1583735;1481836993;mircea_popescu;well yes cuz he delivered it in a phuctor-state
1583736;1481840180;mircea_popescu;god i totally love the deedbot rss service.
1583737;1481840184;mircea_popescu;trinque ++
1583738;1481843044;shinohai;An actual BitBet posted in my rss feed! https://bitbet.us/bet/1343/bigblock-hardfo/
1583739;1481843093;shinohai;" segregated witness data shall not be counted in determining block sizes for the purposes of this bet. "
1583740;1481843784;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-am-not-a-white-nationalist/#footnote_1_50246 << lol found the quote that google couldn't last night
1583741;1481843890;pete_dushenski;wd on the census too!
1583742;1481844383;mircea_popescu;heh ty
1583743;1481844956;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: from peterl in contravex comments : "I could be wrong (have not ordered one yet myself), but isn't the cardano a sub-piece of the FUCKGOATS? So they are delivering a bigger, more complex, more useful item (but later) than what they originally planned to sell?" i must say i missed this difference b/w fuckgoats and cardano as well. i guess i'd assumed that the latter'd been renamed to the former
1583744;1481844958;pete_dushenski;but perhaps not ?
1583745;1481844966;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: vice-versa
1583746;1481845023;pete_dushenski;o ? but they're still one in the same physical object, yes ?
1583747;1481845041;asciilifeform;wai wat
1583748;1481845059;asciilifeform;it is not obvious from the brochure, what FUCKGOATS does ??
1583749;1481845060;pete_dushenski;aha nvm.
1583750;1481845092;phf;magic artifact from our own tmsr wizard, cures boils and sours milk
1583751;1481845162;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: hm maybe i'm still confused. what's being vice-versa'd exactly ?
1583752;1481845180;pete_dushenski;phf: but does alf float ?
1583753;1481845197;asciilifeform;phf: 'Экстракт против мышей, бородавок и пота ног. Капля этого же экстракта, налитая в стакан воды, превращает его в водку, а две капли -- в коньяк "Три звездочки".  Этот же экстракт излечивает от облысения и тайных пороков.  Он же лучшее средство
1583754;1481845197;asciilifeform;для чистки столовых ножей.' (tm) (r) (ilf & petrov)
1583755;1481845251;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html << for your reading pleasure.
1583756;1481845286;asciilifeform;it's a screamingly single-purpose device.
1583757;1481845302;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583750
1583758;1481845302;a111;Logged on 2016-12-15 23:38 phf: magic artifact from our own tmsr wizard, cures boils and sours milk
1583759;1481845308;shinohai;!~bash 1
1583760;1481845308;jhvh1;Last 1 lines bashed and pending publication
1583761;1481845312;asciilifeform;lol
1583762;1481845332;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: that's what she said.
1583763;1481845389;mircea_popescu;;d
1583764;1481845390;mircea_popescu;ld
1583765;1481845391;mircea_popescu;;
1583766;1481845393;mircea_popescu;wtf!
1583767;1481845416;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski the original planned item (cardano) was an over-engineered, incorrectly defined, too broad and too complex toaster-and-shoe-shiner.
1583768;1481845448;mircea_popescu;this is not directly obvious from a theoretical view. a major reason why defensive business management and practical engineering pay off is that you get to catch this sort of thing and fix it.
1583769;1481845457;asciilifeform;the toaster is still happening -- in pieces that can be assembled to same.
1583770;1481845466;asciilifeform;and tested ~individually~.
1583771;1481845470;mircea_popescu;fuckgoats is basically one part of the original cardano, specifically, the one actually worth making, turned up to 11.
1583772;1481845490;pete_dushenski;now i see!
1583773;1481845528;mircea_popescu;the above three lines took 3 years of thinking to produce ; this in preference of $3mn or worse.
1583774;1481845641;asciilifeform;certainly nobody's hardwarizing koch's bucked of'liquishit.
1583775;1481845646;asciilifeform;*bucke\t
1583776;1481846075;mircea_popescu;ah alf, remember the happy days a few years ago when we actually thought gpg ~= pgp ?
1583777;1481846079;asciilifeform;aha!
1583778;1481846351;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MTPKz/?raw=true
1583779;1481846351;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1583780;1481847492;mats;the big reveal
1583781;1481847792;asciilifeform;http://www2.math.binghamton.edu/p/people/grads/schaefer/314s16 << in other lulz, 'Here is a link to Man vs. Machine, the randomness game mentioned in class.'
1583782;1481849236;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/ubuntu-crash-reports-allow-remote-code-execution/ << Qntra - Ubuntu Crash Reports Allow Remote Code Execution
1583783;1481849337;mircea_popescu;aaahahahaha
1583784;1481849359;mircea_popescu;ok this is like ... great article shinohai
1583785;1481849391;shinohai;>:3
1583786;1481849439;mircea_popescu;"make things simple". you know, "to attract new people". so then call eval() on random text files!
1583787;1481849498;shinohai;Because reporting system crashes automagically is VERY important!
1583788;1481849536;mircea_popescu;wait, i thought this works on the crash report ~reader~
1583789;1481849566;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/ashley-madison-settles-again/ << Qntra - Ashley Madison Settles Again
1583790;1481849620;asciilifeform;shinohai: auto crash reporters are to report to the folx who Really Care at ftmead
1583791;1481849628;asciilifeform;because hey, fuzzing in-house costs.
1583792;1481849635;mircea_popescu;word.
1583793;1481849659;asciilifeform;hence, e.g., the flipoladed 'apple bugreports' & similar keyz.
1583794;1481849694;shinohai;Use Cases: "Willy was creating a logo for his soccer club in Inkscape when it crashed. Being the family's Ubuntu expert, he feels a responsibility to help improve the system. He's reported one or two bugs in Launchpad before, though it wasn't a particularly enjoyable experience. "
1583795;1481849746;shinohai;Dear lord, if I find a bug, I certainly don't want to report it, I want to hide it away for future use, if any!
1583796;1481849803;mircea_popescu;reporting bugs in here is very enjoyable in my experience.
1583797;1481850257;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/12/yahoo-leaks-again-up-to-1-billion-affected/#comment-81486
1583798;1481851975;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: link to my www in #10 in your piece is b0rked
1583799;1481851985;mircea_popescu;no ?!
1583800;1481851991;asciilifeform;(under 'keys are weak' )
1583801;1481851998;asciilifeform;you have a www.www.... in there
1583802;1481852035;mircea_popescu;are you aware YOUR server redirects to www.url all teh time ?
1583803;1481852068;mircea_popescu;dude ubuntu is such a shitshow... gnomep-anel eating 35% of cpu wtf.
1583804;1481852092;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly. i haven't opened the hood on that thing in eons
1583805;1481852109;mircea_popescu;link fixt.
1583806;1481852112;asciilifeform;ty
1583807;1481852118;mircea_popescu;nono, ty!
1583808;1481852123;asciilifeform;or wait
1583809;1481852134;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/p=1733 ain't it
1583810;1481852173;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1733 <<.
1583811;1481852191;mircea_popescu;gah!
1583812;1481852249;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how about nao ?
1583813;1481852267;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C10265CAC01DE0B5C84F248879FB350192785D1C14FA53C6B4CAAE68A1BBA977 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1615...4883 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '179.1.72.89 (ssh-rsa key from 179.1.72.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CO ANT)
1583814;1481852267;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A4A4F036A5778A693B83E0707EE87CE8BEF16038402CD3B3F06684088336D75 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1030...8133 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.61 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.61 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1583815;1481852267;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/791F6C0F7D263391BA881D42F7E20BEB4107A6DEF86379934DB5144F6A6B2782 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1600...9207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '59.190.130.236 (ssh-rsa key from 59.190.130.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (panda.webfile.jp. JP)
1583816;1481852274;asciilifeform;nao -- worx!
1583817;1481852361;mircea_popescu;there's something i don't understand. if 3 mods pop at the same time like this, shouldn't it be because they shared a factor ?
1583818;1481852367;mircea_popescu;whereas the reported factors are distinct...
1583819;1481852371;asciilifeform;debianball
1583820;1481852376;mircea_popescu;ah
1583821;1481852382;asciilifeform;also not necessarily
1583822;1481852383;mircea_popescu;so basically it's ssh vs debianball ?
1583823;1481852395;asciilifeform;gedankenexperiment : funnelator adds mods m1, m2, m3
1583824;1481852412;asciilifeform;m1 shares f1 with some previous p1, m2 -- with some p2; m3 -- with p3.
1583825;1481852436;asciilifeform;so k modules can pop whenever k modules get added, in whatever order.
1583826;1481852449;mircea_popescu;right
1583827;1481852466;mircea_popescu;well, between k and 2k
1583828;1481852517;asciilifeform;actually it is possible, in theory, for ALL of the moduli to pop , if satan made a modulus consisting of p1,p2,p3....pn (everybody's p...)
1583829;1481852527;asciilifeform;to pop from an addition of ONE modulus, that is.
1583830;1481852535;mircea_popescu;a right. so basically there's no reasonable expectation
1583831;1481852538;asciilifeform;correct.
1583832;1481853103;asciilifeform;'If you are an Intel employee, you must prefix your normal windows idsid ' << l0l!!!
1583833;1481853198;mircea_popescu;dude for srs.
1583834;1481853223;mircea_popescu;there's some "b2b" app somewhere printing the banners as instruction sets or wtf.
1583835;1481853231;mircea_popescu;an epic case of poor design.
1583836;1481853290;mircea_popescu;it's up there on the level of, you know how pretentions twits NAME their house ? "Villa Futipemata" and stuff ?
1583837;1481853306;mircea_popescu;this'd be on the level of naming it "Villa Please Turn The Doorknob To Gain Entrance."
1583838;1481853331;asciilifeform;iirc we had a 'crypto-lordosis' thread
1583839;1481853345;asciilifeform;('nsa hole is this-way, please dun drill no moar hoalz')
1583840;1481853402;mircea_popescu;actually iirc there was some woman who named her daugher Drop Table Students;-- so...
1583841;1481853457;mircea_popescu;meanwhile torchlight has the following advice for me : "if you find yourseld dying too much, you should try to increase your armor"
1583842;1481853496;mircea_popescu;i honestly thought i should run around drinking random fluids more. isn't random-fluids-drinking the death preventer ? it is ARMOR !?
1583843;1481853580;phf;torchlight?? scrapping the bottom of the barrel there
1583844;1481853736;mircea_popescu;lol! hey, one girl's huge d2 fan, so im trying it out
1583845;1481853759;mircea_popescu;so far this very hard isnt all that hard
1583846;1481853800;phf;i got to some "hell" levels on "hardcorest of modes, stay away" and gave up because i was just cutting through everything like butter. it just got dull
1583847;1481853820;phf;d2 at least had balance
1583848;1481853824;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re: 'proftpd' : https://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/15449
1583849;1481853828;asciilifeform;(and possibly else)
1583850;1481853849;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ayup. there's tons of stuff, i cut it short because my reference list was gettying endless
1583851;1481853854;mircea_popescu;linked just a coupla juicy bits.
1583852;1481853859;mircea_popescu;phf what did you play, caster ?
1583853;1481853869;asciilifeform;the 1 other worth mention,https://www.aldeid.com/wiki/Exploits/proftpd-1.3.3c-backdoor
1583854;1481853881;asciilifeform;'On Sunday, the 28th of November 2010 around 20:00 UTC the main distribution server of the ProFTPD project was compromised. The attackers most likely used an unpatched security issue in the FTP daemon to gain access to the server and used their privileges to replace the source files for ProFTPD 1.3.3c with a version which contained a backdoor....'
1583855;1481853887;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/462B81C6D36BC1EEB1B52DA99EC1E704C722910F6398C0CD4154C663D3A61D09 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1030...8133 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.13.205 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.13.205 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX JAL)
1583856;1481853887;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A4A4F036A5778A693B83E0707EE87CE8BEF16038402CD3B3F06684088336D75 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1030...8133 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.61 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.61 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1583857;1481853887;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E643BAEAC308F1BF33B37DDB9A258BBD07E85D30A9A63B95754CBA0BD2FFB346 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1615...4883 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '190.12.56.72 (ssh-rsa key from 190.12.56.72 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (corp-190-12-56-72.mch.puntonet.ec. EC P)
1583858;1481853887;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C10265CAC01DE0B5C84F248879FB350192785D1C14FA53C6B4CAAE68A1BBA977 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1615...4883 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '179.1.72.89 (ssh-rsa key from 179.1.72.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CO ANT)
1583859;1481853894;asciilifeform;ahahahaha
1583860;1481853901;phf;i think it was a trapper vanquisher
1583861;1481853981;mircea_popescu;phf dude you gotta try the caster. it's the night of reason, so i got summon skeletons; summon skeleton archers and summo nzombies on the main + summon zombies and summon floating sword ON THE PET. that's like 40 different things ; and a sort of chain lightning that goes through walls. (summons also work through walls).
1583862;1481854019;mircea_popescu;i'm basically following around a swarm of angry mobs cutting up a different swarm of angry  mobs.
1583863;1481854146;phf;ha, i'm not falling for that one! i'm right now in the process of trying to kill that damn dragon
1583864;1481854238;mircea_popescu;oh, on emerald islands ? it can't be done.
1583865;1481854243;mircea_popescu;i tried everything.
1583866;1481854312;mircea_popescu;people in gaming always go "oh, it's always possible" and then point to the death of lord british as a definitive example.
1583867;1481854331;mircea_popescu;but this has been an open and unsolved problem for 17 years.
1583868;1481854368;phf;hmm, i'm giving it another three days
1583869;1481854382;mircea_popescu;but no more plox you got useful stuff to do.
1583870;1481854401;phf;they said the same about fermat's last theorem!
1583871;1481854432;mircea_popescu;i even tried reloading the map billion times to see if useful peasant pops up. some give you major bonuses.
1583872;1481854442;mircea_popescu;i tried four knights with spears and dotg...
1583873;1481854638;phf;hmm
1583874;1481854787;mircea_popescu;wands of shrapnel might do it, if you live long enough. but no chests there are good enough to spawn one
1583875;1481860521;mircea_popescu;hey listen pete_dushenski , i need someone to be the auctioneer for the next s.mg auction in eulora because i want to be able to bid myself. do you wanna do the job ? i'll pay ya 1mn ecus.
1583876;1481861149;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/791F6C0F7D263391BA881D42F7E20BEB4107A6DEF86379934DB5144F6A6B2782 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1481...0329 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '59.190.130.236 (ssh-rsa key from 59.190.130.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (panda.webfile.jp. JP)
1583877;1481862187;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: sure thing (assuming it's just in #eulora irc chan). on one condition : i do it pro bono.
1583878;1481862223;mircea_popescu;no, it'd be in game actually.
1583879;1481862265;BingoBoingo;Do it pete_dushenski, For the Republic!
1583880;1481862268;mircea_popescu;i can link you to the proceedings of a coupla past ones if you wanna see
1583881;1481862374;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/search?q=auction ?
1583882;1481862393;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: bingo!
1583883;1481862463;mircea_popescu;ah those are different, random people's auctions. this'd be an official minigame auction, like eg http://trilema.com/2015/one-hundred-million-eulora-coins-or-in-other-words-one-bitcoin/
1583884;1481862484;mircea_popescu;or http://trilema.com/2015/and-there-was-another-auction-and-there-was-another-record-and-so-on/
1583885;1481862509;mircea_popescu;anyway, this will be a pretty big one, as far as these go. i imagine it'd soak up 1-2 hrs of your time.
1583886;1481862608;*;mircea_popescu is off to bed, but we shall continue this discussion tomorrow. along with all the others!
1583887;1481862611;pete_dushenski;and it's this coming sunday ? or a future sunday ? time and timezone would also be helpful, unless that's for me to set.
1583888;1481862618;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski im thinking january 15th.
1583889;1481862618;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: bon soir :)
1583890;1481862652;pete_dushenski;o good. lots of time to prep then. ya, i'm game!
1583891;1481862674;*;pete_dushenski marks off time on calendar.
1583892;1481863326;pete_dushenski;https://medium.com/opacity/the-syrian-war-condensed-a-more-rigorous-way-to-look-at-the-conflict-f841404c3b1d#.u85dggdtt (http://archive.is/oBRmn) << taleb on syrian situation. as a civilised sort of fellow, he's pretty staunchly pro-assad despite having plenty of room for personal grievances against the regime.
1583893;1481864001;pete_dushenski;"Do not report this issue to Homebrew/brew or Homebrew/core!" << speaking of error reports, just got this lolzotron trying to install eulora on osx 10.8
1583894;1481864031;pete_dushenski;SNITCHES GET STICHES!!1
1583895;1481864063;pete_dushenski;*STITCHES
1583896;1481864068;pete_dushenski;lol
1583897;1481864231;trinque;pretty hard for me to condemn assad while my ass still sits in the country that sold al qaida chemical weapons to be used, then blamed on assad.
1583898;1481864237;pete_dushenski;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/eKTJb/?raw=true << osx 10.8 install attempt for those curious
1583899;1481864332;pete_dushenski;trinque: that whole 'red line' act in the chemweapon affair took the cake.
1583900;1481864433;*;pete_dushenski to study for compsci final exam tmrw morning.
1583901;1481864573;trinque;I don't think much of luck, so I'll say do well instead!
1583902;1481869483;trinque;in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True   yet   any([]) -> False
1583903;1481869701;trinque;http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19601802/how-does-all-in-python-work-on-empty-lists/19601813#19601813 << great fucking scott, the towering minds.
1583904;1481870018;davout;lulzy
1583905;1481870443;trinque;All of Elliot's no girlfriends fucked him all night. -> True.
1583906;1481870447;trinque;yeah I guess it checks out.
1583907;1481879250;Framedragger;WRQReflectionforSecureIT_7.0 << hahahahaha
1583908;1481879255;Framedragger;epic lulz.
1583909;1481879341;Framedragger;trinque: that's sorta fuckin' weird. "empty set as first class citizen" something something...
1583910;1481881049;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583663 << two small notes: 1. i've now deleted the uncompressed *.log's, everything's in archive format (and raw logs still available of course). just not to waste disk space.
1583911;1481881049;a111;Logged on 2016-12-15 16:07 Framedragger: (and @all, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/ is the canonical URL for all data gathered from the ssh scans. includes raw stderr logs from ssh-keyscan utility, e.g. http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s1/1_err_scan.log ; scripts for processing these are http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/write_ssh_banners.py and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/process_all_banners.sh )
1583912;1481881061;Framedragger;and 2., re. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583653 << asciilifeform: fyi internal line order does *not* map to order of openpgp files - sorry about this. but the filenames and numbers *do* map to parcels previously given. just to be clear.
1583913;1481881061;a111;Logged on 2016-12-15 15:54 Framedragger: (numbers in filenames and internal line order maps to openpgp files i gave you, fwiw)
1583914;1481881171;Framedragger;oh and, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_scan.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_scan.tar.bz2 (note, large files) are the stdout of ssh-keyscan and contains the public keys in raw log format. just for completeness' sake. #actualscientificreplicabilitymotherfuckers
1583915;1481881223;Framedragger;(and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_ip.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_ip.tar.bz2 are all the 15`646`188 ssh IPs for anyone interested.)
1583916;1481881796;Framedragger;http://qntra.net/2016/12/ubuntu-crash-reports-allow-remote-code-execution/ << good stuff. fwiw Donncha is cool. here's him fucking around with coinbase: https://donncha.is/2013/06/coinbase-owning-a-bitcoin-exchange-bug-bounty-program/
1583917;1481885125;*;Framedragger just discovered http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/ - pretty neat. i take it this expensive experiment had been thus discontinued :)
1583918;1481885204;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: obtw, re. http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/#selection-21.0-21.13 it should probably say "Back in June", as it was june. the second scanning event was in july, but all of phuctor's finds thus far have been from the first scan in june
1583919;1481885531;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583915 << whoops, correction: these contain all the >20M IPs answering to port 22. (otherwise these would be redundant cf. banner CSVs).
1583920;1481885531;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 09:40 Framedragger: (and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_ip.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_ip.tar.bz2 are all the 15`646`188 ssh IPs for anyone interested.)
1583921;1481885531;Framedragger;/me done with logspam
1583922;1481886801;Framedragger;https://i.imgur.com/QC51FZz.png
1583923;1481889627;mircea_popescu;Framedragger ah i c.
1583924;1481889811;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583891 << ah great then! ima write post announcing it today, what time works for you ? 17:00 ART ?
1583925;1481889811;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 04:31 pete_dushenski marks off time on calendar.
1583926;1481890128;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 << this is actually strictly speaking correct. an empty set is whole even if it has no elements.
1583927;1481890128;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True   yet   any([]) -> False
1583928;1481890169;mircea_popescu;but i can see why this is practically obnoxious.
1583929;1481890308;mircea_popescu;"are {} all the elements of the empty set ?" "yes." "name one such element." "there isn't one."
1583930;1481890386;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583906 << yup. this goes nicely with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575797
1583931;1481890386;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 06:40 trinque: yeah I guess it checks out.
1583932;1481890386;a111;Logged on 2016-12-01 18:44 mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that the brain is not a reasoning engine. in a very purely naturalistic, bio-logical way, this is sensible. the practice of "talk to the text, not context or subtext" has become established through moo practice
1583933;1481890587;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583914 << btw, i'm hosting a copy of the whole file, so you don't get hammered too badly.
1583934;1481890587;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 09:39 Framedragger: oh and, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_scan.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_scan.tar.bz2 (note, large files) are the stdout of ssh-keyscan and contains the public keys in raw log format. just for completeness' sake. #actualscientificreplicabilitymotherfuckers
1583935;1481890692;mircea_popescu;all_internet_ssh_banners.txt.tar.gz	109	0	11.16 GB	102.38 MB so far ; not the end of teh world.
1583936;1481890739;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: ah, that's cool and useful, ty
1583937;1481890743;mircea_popescu;actually, 2nd largest bw eater this month, i also served 12 GB worth of http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/lit.txt
1583938;1481890751;mircea_popescu;but that's been #1 pretty much since april.
1583939;1481890833;mircea_popescu;Framedragger it's an iffy thing from my pov, because on one hand you know, you did it i should link it ; but on the other i dunno how many people'd click and how well you're set-up for it. anyway if you'd like a blog linked or something do say.
1583940;1481890925;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: thanks. in point of fact a blog is now in actual plans, not only oneday-maybewaybe. :) re. capacity to handle, at least the connection is unmetered, and it's just static nginx. but it's not anything big. so this is useful and appreciated.
1583941;1481890941;mircea_popescu;cool deal.
1583942;1481891002;*;mircea_popescu checked, about half of that was in the first half hour (thanks god for delayed rss otherwise it'd prolly be within five minutes eh!) so that's like 3MB/s jus' there.
1583943;1481891075;shinohai;"Let's ALL scrap GPG, getting too hard to spy on peeps" https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/12/giving_up_on_pg.html
1583944;1481891168;mircea_popescu;Framedragger not so much a matter of the webserver itself, the load on that is minimal for large file transfers ; but from experience most hosters offer 1Mbps to 1MBps links unless actually specified. and this is outide of any "intelligent" throttling at the router interface etc.
1583945;1481891184;mircea_popescu;shinohai ironically we're also giving up on gpg, for the exactly opposite reason.
1583946;1481891205;mircea_popescu;there's a lesson in this, where being a jwz dun pay. gotta pick sides, loud and clear.
1583947;1481891233;shinohai;I shall make haste to leave these walls the day you recommend using signal+tor
1583948;1481891254;mircea_popescu;the incredible audacity of the usg assets. really, they are STILL pushing tor ?
1583949;1481891262;mircea_popescu;it's about equivalent to mit still pushing ethereum.
1583950;1481891344;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: yeah, good point. well the hosting provider is ~shitty and quality of bw offered is not great (OVH), but it *does* make a more-or-less successful attempt at providing an actual full duplex 100 mbps, which isn't a lot, but still decent to my liking. so at least there's that.
1583951;1481891387;Framedragger;even Framedragger doesn't push tor anymore. *and that's telling you somethin'* :D
1583952;1481891393;mircea_popescu;lol
1583953;1481891430;mircea_popescu;i honestly don't know anyone (who is someone, i don't mean kids with no money, no power and no value dicking about ; and who isn't actually nsa) is still using the thing.
1583954;1481891462;mircea_popescu;so it is somewhat moot. they might as well advertise microsoft powerclip + yahoo briefcase as a solution, for all the difference it'd make.
1583955;1481891472;mircea_popescu;and god knows both those "corporations" need it badly.
1583956;1481891524;mircea_popescu;Framedragger you actually saw this in action ? ie, served 40ish GB in any given hour or anything like that ?
1583957;1481891530;Framedragger;(i use tor to access things like library genesis while still in airstrip one, but that says more about airstrip one than anything else.)
1583958;1481891548;mircea_popescu;!~google library genesis
1583959;1481891549;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Library Genesis / LibGen - The Meta Library - Sites - Google: <https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis>; Library Genesis - Reddit: <https://www.reddit.com/r/libgen/>; Libgen.cc: <http://libgen.cc/>
1583960;1481891555;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: well, didn't *serve*, but benchmarked myself. i can try again tho, that was long ago
1583961;1481891564;mircea_popescu;ah, same thing.
1583962;1481891598;mircea_popescu;note though that sub-hour benchmarks are meaningless.
1583963;1481891613;Framedragger;(oh oh, and also trying out masscan (the first-stage scanner, i.e. the one which sends TCP SYNs) with maybe 30-100k packets per second stable))
1583964;1481891614;mircea_popescu;if you do it for say 10 seconds, well doh, they allow it.
1583965;1481891626;Framedragger;yeah sure.
1583966;1481891680;*;Framedragger will consider testing it. would be useful knowledge, i.e. OVH *is* cost effective for not-super-important "lower grade hardware ok" deployments
1583967;1481891897;mircea_popescu;which is why like half of malware is hosted there
1583968;1481891919;Framedragger;certainly. (also while on topic, large part of tor relay network. "decentralization!!!")
1583969;1481891930;mircea_popescu;lol. right.
1583970;1481891982;mircea_popescu;this is a fucking issue ffs. if the world worked like FOSS ~pretends it worked~ then we'd have LIKE HALF A DOZEN ssh protocol definitions ; which'd still interoperate ; and from hundreds to just one implementations of each of those. by distinct people in distinct teams.
1583971;1481892007;mircea_popescu;irl, there's ssh 2.0 and ssh 2. 0 ; and ~one implementation, by a known-bad team.
1583972;1481892044;mircea_popescu;what fucking foss. there is no foss. microsoft is the natural structure of ustards and everyone taking after them ; which is to see in a hurry to see results and in no particular mood to examine the quality thereof.
1583973;1481892141;Framedragger;in unrelated newz, while installing an ubuntu package,
1583974;1481892142;Framedragger;> 173 new root certificates were added to your trust store.
1583975;1481892142;Framedragger;uh. how about, fuck your mother
1583976;1481892147;mircea_popescu;the third most commonly seen ssh protocol is a misspelling of the most common one pushed out by mistake years ago!
1583977;1481892185;mircea_popescu;Framedragger lol but you get free stuff for your store!
1583978;1481892194;mircea_popescu;is your trust store on etsy ? :D
1583979;1481892208;Framedragger;i don't even
1583980;1481892225;mircea_popescu;where is this trust store even, now i'm curious.
1583981;1481892237;Framedragger;i'm actually pissed, which just means that i was too optimistic about ubuntu. *i was installing a simple image editor*
1583982;1481892277;Framedragger;wait i'm checking. there's a chinese root authority there... maybe package name denoted something else... still, who in their right mind?...
1583983;1481892296;mircea_popescu;ftr it's /usr/share/ca-certificates ; and i got like... 7
1583984;1481892307;Framedragger;`sudo apt-get install pinta` << is what i did. default ubuntu repos, default ubuntu install fwiw.
1583985;1481892342;mircea_popescu;dude just get gedit.
1583986;1481892362;Framedragger;k@burokas:/usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla$ find . | wc -l
1583987;1481892362;Framedragger;174
1583988;1481892375;mircea_popescu;i swear gedit is like the emacs of the art world. once you learn how to use its lisp parts you can never leave.
1583989;1481892385;Framedragger;"i wanted to try something new, and now i have sharks."
1583990;1481892399;mircea_popescu;do yourself a favour learn how to use gimp.scheme ; you will never look at graphics with the same eyes again.
1583991;1481892408;Framedragger;hm! interesting advice
1583992;1481892421;Framedragger;apparently i'm behind on linux graphics software
1583993;1481892426;mircea_popescu;actually i would propose it's a very fine way if not the best way to learn lisp.
1583994;1481892429;Framedragger;normally i'd just fool around with gimp
1583995;1481892435;Framedragger;aha!
1583996;1481892454;*;Framedragger lunch, bbl
1583997;1481892459;mircea_popescu;not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
1583998;1481892471;mircea_popescu;literally, for the cost of installing gimp you get what ammounts to a visual repl.
1583999;1481892661;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583917 << it was expensive especially in human terms ; broke a few fingers off people who otherwise were well meaning and willing to try and help.
1584000;1481892661;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 10:45 Framedragger just discovered http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/ - pretty neat. i take it this expensive experiment had been thus discontinued :)
1584001;1481892677;mircea_popescu;sadly this can't entirely be avoided it turns out.
1584002;1481892761;shinohai;!!rated ben_vulpes
1584003;1481892761;deedbot;shinohai rated ben_vulpes 3 at 2016/12/11 03:11:16 << http://cascadianhacker.com/ #trilema trb lisp
1584004;1481892763;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583919 << wait, what ? which 20mn ?
1584005;1481892763;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 10:52 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583915 << whoops, correction: these contain all the >20M IPs answering to port 22. (otherwise these would be redundant cf. banner CSVs).
1584006;1481894184;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: the 20M or so servers which responded to TCP SYNs sent to port 22. however, out of those, about 5M (or however many) did not respond to ssh handshakes, hence the lower number in the banners and phuctor payloads.
1584007;1481894201;mircea_popescu;ah right right.
1584008;1481894254;Framedragger;i guess one should standardise terms here. the larger number corresponds to "something's running there" servers, found via 1st scan phase. the lower 15M number corresponds to "actually speaks ssh protocol" servers, found via 2nd (ssh-keyscan) scan phase.
1584009;1481894295;Framedragger;i would avoid inducing all of this confusion if i wrote all of this shit up in place - mea culpa. will be done eventually.
1584010;1481894307;Framedragger;in one place*
1584011;1481894328;mircea_popescu;no big deal, it'd be confusing if we didn't know what this is.
1584012;1481894353;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583998 << will try this - very useful pointer.
1584013;1481894353;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: literally, for the cost of installing gimp you get what ammounts to a visual repl.
1584014;1481894402;mircea_popescu;can be your first blog post! "here's me trying gimp repl"
1584015;1481894479;Framedragger;"adventures in procedural cock drawing, vol 1"
1584016;1481894579;mircea_popescu;lol
1584017;1481894592;mircea_popescu;i didn't know you were a girl.
1584018;1481894657;Framedragger;hey that vc dude apparently likes to call everything cocks, and it's working out for him
1584019;1481894995;mircea_popescu;yes but that's because he's a girl.
1584020;1481895753;mircea_popescu;incidentally, speaking of nothing in particular, everyone heard of carlos ghosn ? quite the fellow.
1584021;1481895847;Framedragger;hah busy fella!
1584022;1481896028;mircea_popescu;fortune "gave him" some "best in business ~OUTSIDE OF US~" title, in typical byzantine style of "our nose's so upturned if it rains we drown" ; but then both gm and ford begged him to take them on (and he didn't. why didn't he ? is it because no great again possible in the us according to the people who specialize in great agains ?)
1584023;1481896091;mircea_popescu;incidentally, the greatest skill in the world isn't to you know, get named head of michelin south america reporting directly to francois michelin and then turn it around in a coupla years.
1584024;1481896166;mircea_popescu;the greatest skill is to turn down byzantine crap a la gm or ford. "oh great opportunity". heh, for THEM, maybe. they want to suck your juju, to extend their lifespan for a few short extra weeks WITHOUT CHANGING substantially. that's the fucking problem.
1584025;1481896177;mircea_popescu;never take on a slave who's not aware she's abject refuse.
1584026;1481896433;Framedragger;"In the first year of the Nissan Revival Plan, Nissan's consolidated net profit after tax climbed to $2.7 billion for fiscal year 2000, from a consolidated net loss of $6.46 billion in the previous year. Twelve months into his three-year turnaround plan, Nissan had returned  to profitability, and within three years it was one of the industry's  most profitable auto makers, with
1584027;1481896441;Framedragger;operating margins consistently above  9%—more than twice the industry average." << wow
1584028;1481896472;mircea_popescu;he's big in japan.
1584029;1481896530;Framedragger;gotta love the empire's press and resulting ignorance
1584030;1481896952;mircea_popescu;meanwhile they give professional company sinkers credit. carly fiorina, this tracy lorde of us business, singlehandedly destroyed two functional companies.
1584031;1481897067;Framedragger;amusing.
1584032;1481897069;Framedragger;https://www.schrauger.com/the-story-of-how-wosign-gave-me-an-ssl-certificate-for-github-com << ffs i have these jokers in my ca list now. need to go through it and remove shit.
1584033;1481897083;mircea_popescu;just take everything out.
1584034;1481897087;Framedragger;yea.
1584035;1481897099;*;mircea_popescu doesn't even HAVE  mozilla directory in ca-certs because wtf.
1584036;1481897137;Framedragger;well there's no cert *outside* mozilla dir. maybe it's the ubuntu's organized. fresh install, don't ask...
1584037;1481897140;Framedragger;mircea_popescu, what do you have in cert list if you don't mind me asking?
1584038;1481897155;Framedragger;the way*
1584039;1481897164;mircea_popescu;debconf.org, that sort of thing.
1584040;1481897177;Framedragger;aha right.
1584041;1481897300;mircea_popescu;(btw, mind that * in rm -f doesn't match dotfiles)
1584042;1481897316;Framedragger;hm, good reminder...
1584043;1481897328;mircea_popescu;{*,.*}
1584044;1481897350;Framedragger;yeah. ridoinculous ca shitpile, wtf
1584045;1481897610;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583997 <<< c'est pas tombé dans l'oreille d'un sourd
1584046;1481897610;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
1584047;1481897630;mircea_popescu;cool
1584048;1481897941;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jbIJB/?raw=true
1584049;1481897942;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1584050;1481898106;mircea_popescu;Framedragger there's a lot of interesting stuff at the "western world" - japan interface. japan being, of course, the only non-european industrialised country. but it doesn't stop there - when the whole socialist world went up in flames in the 20s, japan was doing absolutely fine ; even made a bundle speculating the loser's currencies.
1584051;1481898150;mircea_popescu;this has A LOT to do with the mechanisms discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/ ; and so unsurprisingly the us marxists came up with all sorts of funny theories as to what "japan was really like" economically.
1584052;1481898157;mircea_popescu;it's a topic worthy of investigation.
1584053;1481898235;Framedragger;hey scriba catch this http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09968.html
1584054;1481898420;mircea_popescu;he was wrong on one point, re the "political suicide". not that the niggers aren't PRETENDING of course, but their pretense aside my credit's evidently better than clinton's.
1584055;1481898432;mircea_popescu;so far it was political suicide - for her ; not for me.
1584056;1481898542;mircea_popescu;on which note i should wish to muchly encourage the ~competent~ youth to not fear "suicide" of this nature. it's a control artefact implanted by the socialist motherhood for their detriment, a sort of imaginary pain box of the bene gesserit. there's no reason to even HAVE a "group of women who don't fuck" as a political entity, let alone ridoinculous imaginary boxes.
1584057;1481898556;mircea_popescu;worry not about "political suicide".
1584058;1481898598;asciilifeform;well '20s jp ~did~ get bulldozed.
1584059;1481898609;asciilifeform;(though it did give usg a good run for its money, first)
1584060;1481898649;mircea_popescu;right.
1584061;1481898666;mircea_popescu;japan got buldozed chiefly because of the utterly immoral attitude of thinking people at the time.
1584062;1481898682;mircea_popescu;who, incidentally, mostly all figured out what a horrible sin it was to deliver the socialists the bomb.
1584063;1481898704;mircea_popescu;except, in typical "i'm a thinker not a doer" puppy style, figured out after.
1584064;1481898721;asciilifeform;as if anybody but the socialists could have paid for the bomb.
1584065;1481898736;mircea_popescu;not really the point, is it.
1584066;1481898764;mircea_popescu;"i just want to" i get it, i get it. it's stupid and disastrous.
1584067;1481898784;asciilifeform;is the point though. someone was to end up with it, and that someone would have been a socialist throne of whichever colour.
1584068;1481898867;mircea_popescu;!~google nishina
1584069;1481898868;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Yoshio Nishina - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Nishina>; Shima Nishina - MyAnimeList.net: <https://myanimelist.net/character/130094/Shima__Nishina>; History | RIKEN Nishina Center: <http://www.nishina.riken.jp/about/history_e.html>
1584070;1481898907;mircea_popescu;(guy who correctly identified us nuclear programme in 1939)
1584071;1481898960;Framedragger;"It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter."
1584072;1481898971;mircea_popescu;heh
1584073;1481898982;Framedragger;in my quotes file, as a reminder...
1584074;1481899058;mircea_popescu;there's no way to fix this other than "don't work for https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/de/d0/feded087bb5b76da57473b6e7078ffaf.jpg )
1584075;1481899635;Framedragger;(it may however be noted that lacking material wealth, the extreme case of the above appears to be gabriel_laddel (http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570190); and i *do* prefer to have a friggin' mailing address; and there are places to work which do not do heaven-important things, but are not microshit, either; i.e., there's a spectrum.)
1584076;1481899635;a111;Logged on 2016-11-18 22:00 gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: fuck participating in the usg web / github / CC economy etc.
1584077;1481899749;Framedragger;(that being said, /me considers working part-time in the future to come, and working more on personal/worthy projects on the side. i don't know how asciilifeform is tmsr-productive while doing other stuff full-time - maybe i should go on a modafinil diet heh)
1584078;1481899849;asciilifeform;'professional ethics' in usg schmuckdom is a ball of lulz. for instance, when asciilifeform was slaving for usg, he worked in the chemical weapons program. which of course he could not have worked in, because nixon cancelled it, and asciilifeform was never 'security cleared' !!11111 but oh, apparently ~antidotes~ are not weapons! despite the obvious use for the type of antidote that was funded (eat it, release gas, then fight without
1584079;1481899850;asciilifeform; masks while enemy suffers in full body suit)
1584080;1481900044;Framedragger;:(
1584081;1481900181;mircea_popescu;hey, ethics is not mandatory, just a guideline,
1584082;1481900271;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform at least they're coherent, "anti-missile shield is not a nuclear weapon". sure it isn't.
1584083;1481900290;mircea_popescu;such nonproliferation indeed.
1584084;1481900322;Framedragger;i agree, and there is the whole utilitarian framework to be considered in specific instances, such as, "make bloodmoney now, to be invested for quantifiably more good later", etc.; still, it's a nuanced thing...
1584085;1481900331;asciilifeform;the hilarious part is that the ~actual~ impetus for the funding was lizards who understood that eventually someone ~will~ find a way to gas'em; and as soon as it became clear that the antidote will not remove all sequelae from gassing, the funding -- evaporated.
1584086;1481900342;mircea_popescu;heh
1584087;1481900360;mircea_popescu;still chasing perpetual youth up there in the tower of dreamsong huh.
1584088;1481900416;Framedragger;funny you should say that, much-upvoted HN frontpage article right nao: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/science/scientists-say-they-can-reset-clock-of-aging-for-mice-at-least.html?referer=https://pay.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5ijdkz/in_the_first_attempt_to_reverse_aging_by/
1584089;1481900434;Framedragger;oh lol @ referer field
1584090;1481900445;mircea_popescu;pay ?!
1584091;1481900457;mircea_popescu;they actually get paid dun they.
1584092;1481900458;asciilifeform;Framedragger: see thread !
1584093;1481900465;asciilifeform;!#s telomerase
1584094;1481900465;a111;6 results for "telomerase", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=telomerase
1584095;1481900498;Framedragger;oooh nifty asciilifeform
1584096;1481900519;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/lauctionne-des-tooleries/ << Trilema - L'Auctionne des Tooleries!
1584097;1481900528;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-20#1059324 << :p
1584098;1481900528;a111;Logged on 2015-03-20 04:11 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing how much use came of this.
1584099;1481900648;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: that subdomian forces https on traffic, was originally intended for 'reddit gold' (sic) users, but is available to all nowandgodwhydoiknowthis
1584100;1481900817;mircea_popescu;(and in the list of "great western pravda" achievements : japan requested uranium oxide from germany (the great blessings of shinto - japan has no fucking resources of any kind), who shipped it via sub, except the sub surrendered once germany surrendered. and the us agitprop claimed it was... "catalyst for use in the production of synthetic methanol for aviation fuel". because totally, the zeros flew on methanol. (uranium dio
1584101;1481900817;mircea_popescu;xide can work as redox catalyst, can oxidize methane).)
1584102;1481900906;asciilifeform;we had thread
1584103;1481900912;mircea_popescu;o we did ?
1584104;1481900919;asciilifeform;it was the load that made up the shortfall from the idiot calutrons.
1584105;1481900938;asciilifeform;that gen. groves proclaimed, correctly, would not supply even a test bomb until '46.
1584106;1481900981;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1473944
1584107;1481900981;a111;Logged on 2016-05-31 01:17 asciilifeform: there is, in archive, a letter from general groves to truman stating, plainly, that there will not be REMOTELY enough U for bomb.
1584108;1481900985;mircea_popescu;so we did.
1584109;1481900986;asciilifeform;aha.
1584110;1481901066;asciilifeform;funnily enough, uranium carbide + water == some qty of passable petrol.
1584111;1481901079;asciilifeform;( -ev , no shit )
1584112;1481901180;mircea_popescu;for the same money, pornstar + biofermenter == electricity enough for some microseconds of porn watching
1584113;1481901496;mircea_popescu;anyway, all this is becoming ever more interesting as the great again summoning will probably imply something that to the japanese will seem like us unreliability creating a disparity with china wrt nukes.
1584114;1481902235;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 << http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_everyc.htm where (every (lambda () nil) ()) => t (some (lambda () t) ()) => nil. this is a functional equivalent of and/or macros, where (and) => t and (or) => nil
1584115;1481902235;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True   yet   any([]) -> False
1584116;1481902277;mircea_popescu;logic is but one.
1584117;1481902377;phf;surprisingly! fwiw at moscow state evening math school you didn't start with programming. for a couple of years the classes were physics, math and boolean logic. programming in C with frbrgeorge was considered an advanced class and the only ~actual touching of computer~ class
1584118;1481902411;mircea_popescu;i don't teach math by computer either. it's like teaching cooking by washing socks.
1584119;1481902419;mircea_popescu;yes, there's some flavour involved but good lord.
1584120;1481902467;mircea_popescu;either functional analysis or set theory are sound basis for mathematical study, rather than applied algorithmics or w/e you'd call it.
1584121;1481902935;thestringpuller;i thought most engineering schools wouldn't allow you to use calculators for math classes? We weren't allowed to use anything but our brains for all Math even DiffEq. I think statistics was the only class where there was an exception.
1584122;1481903583;asciilifeform;in other noose, https://zifra.tech << yet new tardano!1111
1584123;1481903932;BingoBoingo;CardanObama!
1584124;1481904000;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B6EE2D514424C138EC086E5840C712BFEA64874871CDB7D082605E69F709710B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1589...9383 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.193.153.122 (ssh-rsa key from 66.193.153.122 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US HI)
1584125;1481904090;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/coinbase-targeted-in-cryptsy-class-action/ << Qntra - Coinbase Targeted In Cryptsy Class Action
1584126;1481904132;Framedragger;(fwiw UK unis appear to decently cover basics of ZF set theory in CS classes, too, so at least there's that)
1584127;1481904152;Framedragger;(well, that's an overgeneralization i guess)
1584128;1481904637;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the point is, what do you build the discipline ~around~. it's a linguistic choice, of the level of "we'll write this in basic or php".
1584129;1481904664;mircea_popescu;math ~in terms of~ set theory ; or functionals (as the math thing, not as the cs thing) ; as opposed to computering.
1584130;1481904834;Framedragger;sure.
1584131;1481904854;*;Framedragger wonders how "let's axiomatize from set theory, frege/russell style" would go for 1st year students tho :p
1584132;1481904874;mircea_popescu;splendidly, if you don't expect most to make it to 2nd year.
1584133;1481905081;mircea_popescu;(also you're not held to be more rigorous than the attendance supports, irl)
1584134;1481905651;*;BingoBoingo thinking about building new, proper editor's desk in late Q1 or Q2 next year. Debating between oak, structural grade "southern yellow pine", and mixed wood
1584135;1481905671;mircea_popescu;totally oak, it ages well can auction later.
1584136;1481905819;BingoBoingo;Finishes easier too
1584137;1481905831;mircea_popescu;aha.
1584138;1481905844;BingoBoingo;But heavy, so harder to pick up and beat intruders with
1584139;1481905938;*;BingoBoingo also would consider hickory if it can be sourced
1584140;1481906029;phf;dropbox is finally discontinuing public folder. "we’ve built even better ways for you to share securely and work together with your team." what a load of shit. literally the best feature they had was unmediated ~/pub/. the "better ways" they are referring to is a web 2.0 style "USE DROPBOX CLIENT (or click here to download directly like some kind of loser)"
1584141;1481906123;mircea_popescu;what is this, like an empire wotpaste ?
1584142;1481906144;shinohai;phf is the nifty dragon you put between log schism still there?
1584143;1481906180;*;BingoBoingo atm leaning towards mixed wood. Perhaps a walnut top and Douglas fir (maximally pink boards) structral components.
1584144;1481906183;phf;mircea_popescu: kind of like a transparent rsync to a shared folder, with ~/public linked to public web url
1584145;1481906196;mircea_popescu;right.
1584146;1481906198;phf;shinohai: of course!
1584147;1481906215;*;shinohai can't seem to find dragon, checks dates
1584148;1481906227;phf;ohno i wonder if i broke it
1584149;1481906253;mircea_popescu;speaking of which ben_vulpes : how would you feel about adding a rsync-like interface for wotpaste through rsa sessions ?
1584150;1481906362;shinohai;I spoke to him about that too actually xD
1584151;1481906370;mircea_popescu;o ?
1584152;1481906379;phf;shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440673
1584153;1481906379;a111;Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
1584154;1481906401;shinohai;weird, my browser didn't render it
1584155;1481906405;Framedragger;lol
1584156;1481906459;phf;shinohai: is it still broken? it's possible that hr background is not portable..
1584157;1481906464;mircea_popescu;i see it.
1584158;1481906505;shinohai;I do now, my img block was on ;p
1584159;1481906512;Framedragger;same (FF 50.0.2 linux x64)
1584160;1481906543;mircea_popescu;"dear abby - i noticed today that while wearing my chastity belt, i can't seem to have sexual intercourse. please advise."
1584161;1481906709;shinohai;!~display 162.243.124.182
1584162;1481906709;jhvh1;shinohai: No GeoIP information found for 162.243.124.182
1584163;1481906730;Framedragger;^ digital ocean
1584164;1481906776;shinohai;http://directorybooks.me/tmsr-btcbase.html    <<< attempts to serve you weird pdf?
1584165;1481906798;mircea_popescu;there's a bunch of these.
1584166;1481907120;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584114 << that's fine, except that the empty list is nil which is used as false.
1584167;1481907120;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 15:30 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 << http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_everyc.htm where (every (lambda () nil) ()) => t (some (lambda () t) ()) => nil. this is a functional equivalent of and/or macros, where (and) => t and (or) => nil
1584168;1481907155;mircea_popescu;the problem comes back to the very naive christian notions of the moral value of the void.
1584169;1481907233;phf;trinque: i don't get it
1584170;1481907276;*;trinque also now digesting mp's statement
1584171;1481907304;trinque;from where I sit one can't ask a question of nothing regarding properties nothing doesn't have.
1584172;1481907356;trinque;were ther a distinction between nil and false, I would expect (and) -> nil   (and f) -> f
1584173;1481907375;mircea_popescu;but nil isn't on the possible results list.
1584174;1481907433;mircea_popescu;trinque aha, that lulzy "nature abhors a vacuum" theory hottie is shown demonstrating for yul brenner's "children" comes from right here.
1584175;1481907519;phf;trinque: you're very confused
1584176;1481907736;trinque;muh feelings.
1584177;1481907747;Framedragger;re. asking questions involving properties which do not exist, hah this is something that russell was actually battling with. what is the truth-value of the statement "the present king of france is bold"? some would say it does not have a value (because the term "present king of france" does not have a referent); russell would say "false".
1584178;1481907766;mircea_popescu;it is false.
1584179;1481907776;mircea_popescu;truth-value can not be nil.
1584180;1481907791;Framedragger;so all statements have truth-values, then?
1584181;1481907794;trinque;so then, I just said "is every element in this set true" and got a true on the empty set.
1584182;1481907805;Framedragger;(ruseell's theory of definite descriptions says "yes", other frameworks say "not necessarily")
1584183;1481907813;Framedragger;"bagumpa is blerpy" has truth-value?
1584184;1481907815;mircea_popescu;Framedragger if your semantics allows for it. whether they do or don't is not the same as the truth-value BEING nil however.
1584185;1481907867;mircea_popescu;i know it's commonly taught as equivalent, but saying "x doesn't have an y" is not the same as saying "x's y is nil"
1584186;1481907935;trinque;is this a "the void has all properties" thing ?
1584187;1481907952;Framedragger;note, strawson, frege would say that the king of france *expression* fails to provide a *(logical) proposition*. i.e., it does not have one. imho this is a valid thought, i.e. the matter is not 100% clear.
1584188;1481907968;mircea_popescu;note however that many languages (which aren't english) allow purely constructive usage ; such as adjectival forms constructed from nouns, the noun of a verb and the verb of a noun and so following. depending on semantics bagumpa is blerpy could well have a truth value - if say your definition of is includes an equivalency class for all elements starting with the same letter.
1584189;1481907997;*;Framedragger would like to carry on with phi of lang but will resume later, need to move self body
1584190;1481908074;mircea_popescu;trinque perhaps the cheapest way to visualise the difference between nil and falsehood is to contrast "ex nihilo nihil" with the value table for false-implication.
1584191;1481908075;trinque;so how do we get across the bridge from "the empty set has no members" to "every member of the empty set had blue hair" being true?
1584192;1481908084;mircea_popescu;all sentences spring from a false ; but nothing springs from the nil.
1584193;1481908120;trinque;I understand the difference, was saying lisp *should* have a separate false.
1584194;1481908144;mircea_popescu;ianale.
1584195;1481908145;trinque;nil is used everywhere to mean false, not say "this question can't be answered"
1584196;1481908262;mircea_popescu;well part of the problem is that nil can't be used to mean anything other than nil./
1584197;1481908263;Framedragger;(imho lisp's use of nil as false *is* incorrect, even if you disagree with "every member of the empty set had blue hair" having to be true. it *is* an unholy confusion, falsehood != nil.)
1584198;1481908287;trinque;aha
1584199;1481908294;trinque;SQL gets it right here.
1584200;1481908394;mircea_popescu;as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
1584201;1481908408;trinque;ah!
1584202;1481908423;trinque;proceeding from falsification I can understand.
1584203;1481908480;Framedragger;suddenly karl popper in set theory? :O *suspicious*
1584204;1481908488;Framedragger;but, consistent.
1584205;1481908563;Framedragger;that's all well and good when you can enumerate countable set elements exhaustively / have firm grasp of a term's extension, but what if you don't - any predicate stands true until shown otherwise?
1584206;1481908649;trinque;it feels practically wrong while logical
1584207;1481908685;Framedragger;maybe there could be an empirical-tmsr-set-theory thing :) but for logical analysis, that's weird imo. for one, ontological arguments in regards to god's existence may gain more grounds.
1584208;1481908699;trinque;if one proceeds from there the definition of truth gets pretty squashy
1584209;1481909055;mircea_popescu;Framedragger a proposition ~stands~ until falsified. and is true once it can be showed it can't be false.
1584210;1481909084;mircea_popescu;if i were to endeavour to prove all primenumbers larger than 2 are odd, you'd count yourself satisfied if i showed a number that's prime and larger than 2 can not exist, yes ?
1584211;1481909116;phf;you're not asking for falsehood, when you're asking for nil-ness, so semantic confusion that arises from using same symbol for both concepts is almost always a theoretical problem. and when it's not, like in other situations of semantic ambiguity you can choose to be more precise. luckily people who like to solve theoretical problems of thinking-computing mismatch have moved away from lisp and are doing haskell now
1584212;1481909122;mircea_popescu;the proposition "four is a prime number" doesn't stand, because a factor is known ; the proposition "this and this rsa key is made of two primes" stands, but is not known to be true.
1584213;1481909153;mircea_popescu;lol phf up in arms.
1584214;1481909298;mircea_popescu;anyway, the problem generally is that "all things" have an ontology and a gnoseology, which is separate and so trivially separable even the greeks were privy to it (hence plato's ideal objects) ; except for the void, which is AT THE SAME TIME the absence of ontology and the plenarity of gnoseology. which is to say, the same "thing" at the same time doesn't exist (ie, as nil) and implies everything (ie, as "false").
1584215;1481909339;mircea_popescu;this duality then makes it a fine candidate for a "prime mover", which bothered the scholastics immensely, because they, much like the scholastics-lite version of smith in the us say, wanted to intercede their own agent in there, so he could do things and therefore their derpitude could matter.
1584216;1481909384;phf;i just found this thing, and this should've been that, and that should've been the other, va a fare in culo! :E
1584217;1481909399;mircea_popescu;fortunately, the people who like to solve theoretical problems of though/action mismatch moved on from logic and are doing "policy" nao.
1584218;1481909437;*;trinque should bitch about programming moar often; what a ride
1584219;1481909630;mircea_popescu;anyway. for completeness let it be stated that perceived problems of thought-computing mismatch are thoroughly a matter of perception, and in principle can not be fixed (other than fixing the perception). it's the fundamental problem of "ai", as derided often enough here (see the "what if you name the procedures something other than "understanding" etc ; see also chomski's attacks on "ai" centered on the constructed repeating
1584220;1481909631;mircea_popescu; strings)
1584221;1481909655;mircea_popescu;((and mp was never as unimpressed with chomski as he was when the guy tried to deploy a cantor proof lite without saying so.))
1584222;1481909682;mircea_popescu;the core of it being that computing is not thought.
1584223;1481909741;asciilifeform;one problem that purveyors of sad-schmuck 'maths' chronically suffer from is the expectation that a consistent model has to mesh with naive child's conception of 'N apples' arithmetic.
1584224;1481909775;asciilifeform;see, e.g., the cantor crackpot i linked in last week's l0gz. 'oh noez, infinities!11'
1584225;1481909810;mircea_popescu;i still love the captatio of that sort of guy. it always reduces to "here we show this is controversial". as if THIS has some sort of merit or value.
1584226;1481910182;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/16/i-came-to-buy-a-smile-today/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - I came to buy a smile today.
1584227;1481910441;Framedragger;that's swell guys but a bit of a non sequitur neh. that being said, yea "if you try to formalize fleshworld, you're gonna have a bad time" :)
1584228;1481910443;Framedragger;(inb4 mp quotes last sentence from tractatus logico philosophicus) :D
1584229;1481910455;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584175 << This kind of thing ftr is pointedly useless tweeting of one's feelings.
1584230;1481910455;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 16:58 phf: trinque: you're very confused
1584231;1481910474;trinque;what was never volunteered in the thread is the practical usefulness of the behavior as seen in the programming language mentioned
1584232;1481910501;trinque;"If everyone agrees to fire the nukes, fire them."
1584233;1481910516;trinque;then your list of everybody was empty because squashy world. then nukes fire.
1584234;1481910576;*;Framedragger agrees. (but fwiw i don't think it's legit even in terms of logical analysis, even before practical considerations)
1584235;1481910598;phf;oh, shit, we've got a reddit consensus over here
1584236;1481910666;mircea_popescu;kinda fine illustration of why consensus can never be a sound basis for action
1584237;1481910673;Framedragger;another non sequitur
1584238;1481910681;Framedragger;without addressing points herein
1584239;1481910700;mircea_popescu;"the avoidance of suffering can never be a point of policy, seeing how the simplest solution is immediate mass extermination." AND "consensus can never be the basis of action because the null set always agrees."
1584240;1481910706;trinque;"all" in python is a control structure around a loop, not a term in a boolean statement
1584241;1481910785;trinque;!!v F9F77A40226329ADB52E978F9C046D702962EFA3BDBA76168CCA8DA883792E32
1584242;1481910786;deedbot;trinque unrated phf.
1584243;1481910804;Framedragger;wtf is this shit anyway. even if it's a logical operator, and then, look: it's an AND underneath. and you all know the very-noncontroversial truth-table for AND. true iff for every member, predicate applies. NOT vice-versa falsification goofyness.
1584244;1481910814;Framedragger;jeebus, chill
1584245;1481910831;trinque;it's ok, guy can only type so much with one hand on keyboard.
1584246;1481910842;asciilifeform;lolwatisthis
1584247;1481910852;mircea_popescu;a dramatic development!
1584248;1481910864;asciilifeform;pythagoras's boat or wat.
1584249;1481910868;mircea_popescu;Framedragger what's the definition of every for null set ?
1584250;1481910883;Framedragger;!$ prop7
1584251;1481910884;scriba;Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.
1584252;1481910890;mircea_popescu;so then, goofyness.
1584253;1481910913;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: notice, the "all" in python takes a predicate
1584254;1481910918;trinque;aha.
1584255;1481910936;mircea_popescu;hey, i'm not here to defend extant programing language design choices.
1584256;1481910944;mircea_popescu;but i shall discuss logic with you, if you do not appease us.
1584257;1481910953;Framedragger;uh? how'd *you* define "all" in that case?
1584258;1481910957;*;trinque appreciated the discussion, learned.
1584259;1481911007;mircea_popescu;i think it's a fabulous testament on the very matters at hand that the ~only guy who has a very introspective, quiet, slow and complete approach to thinking/speaking got derated for emotionals.
1584260;1481911037;mircea_popescu;HAD HIGHER EXPECTATION FROM YOU phf !!!
1584261;1481911051;Framedragger;hey i thought trinque unrating phf was a stupid reactionary thing. don't use this as a red herring.
1584262;1481911062;mircea_popescu;but it's only red inasmuch as it's a herring
1584263;1481911064;*;Framedragger adjusts tone
1584264;1481911066;Framedragger;:D
1584265;1481911143;Framedragger;anyway, i agree that there is a way to construct an "every" so that given a null set, it spits out true. however, "every" of what? usually there's a predicate, and then the way you'd test "every" with a predicate is that you run that predicate on every element encountered. and you test that it *obtains*, not that it *does not obtain*.
1584266;1481911158;mircea_popescu;"every nonexistent thing"
1584267;1481911166;mircea_popescu;amusingly all null sets are the same set.
1584268;1481911172;Framedragger;^ true re latter, sure.
1584269;1481911178;asciilifeform;and hey remember when cantor and kronecker derated each other..
1584270;1481911184;mircea_popescu;lol
1584271;1481911205;Framedragger;but then if you want to entertain the latter "check if any *does not obtain*", you will have a "empty set if holder of *all* properties"
1584272;1481911220;mircea_popescu;you can't test for all properties.
1584273;1481911227;Framedragger;( and amusingly under classical ontological argument, empty set will be god :D )
1584274;1481911238;mircea_popescu;yes i said that!!1
1584275;1481911272;mircea_popescu;also practical, at that. god can stay god for as long as gets in no one's way.
1584276;1481911273;Framedragger;*internal framedragger thought process*. "ok, so, maybe mp is empty set.. and he wants to be god.. AHH" :D
1584277;1481911295;BingoBoingo;!!v F82354639AF453DA437A70D37194DEF5F5BB2B10AECAC839DC5A64AD0793FA9E
1584278;1481911295;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated phf 2 << Kiln dried, solid work wrapping Republican proceedings with webs
1584279;1481911297;phf;i usually just switch context when stupid shit is said, but this time i politely pointed it out, which tbh produced an opposite effect of what i expected. in polite circles when somebody goes as far as to point out that somebody is confused, it's an invitation for further introspection, not to loudly double down.
1584280;1481911321;asciilifeform;^
1584281;1481911326;mircea_popescu;eh russkis.
1584282;1481911386;BingoBoingo;trinque is Texan where confused is a synonym for sucking cocks. It's a cultural soft spot.
1584283;1481911404;BingoBoingo;Just not a polite word in his culture
1584284;1481911412;mircea_popescu;holy shit we are now having diversity in tmsr.
1584285;1481911418;Framedragger;hmmm. so we have both http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584200 *and* http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584272 ; i think this entails a logical explosion of "everything is true" :p
1584286;1481911418;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 17:13 mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
1584287;1481911418;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 18:00 mircea_popescu: you can't test for all properties.
1584288;1481911443;mircea_popescu;does it ?
1584289;1481911459;Framedragger;well, okay, i'm not sure. but all predicates obtain in null set.
1584290;1481911495;Framedragger;i don't know how a logician can entertain the latter. well, many things can be entertained, but it's not exactly.. how shall i put it.. ontologically economic?
1584291;1481911495;trinque;it wasn't reactionary at all. now all my ratings of phf are 10.
1584292;1481911506;Framedragger;:D this thread
1584293;1481911554;mircea_popescu;dude what are you on about. ontological economy of the null set ?
1584294;1481911566;BingoBoingo;trinque: Just 10, or Aleph(10) ?
1584295;1481911570;Framedragger;null set is sorta fat under your view
1584296;1481911574;Framedragger;nobody likes fatsos
1584297;1481911578;Framedragger;q.e.d
1584298;1481911579;asciilifeform;also folx regressing to the use of wot as reddit upvote ?
1584299;1481911599;*;davout quietly popcorns
1584300;1481911604;mircea_popescu;don't stereotype alf, we're doing diversity day.
1584301;1481911607;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Nah, I just forgot to ever rate phf for his work.
1584302;1481911616;asciilifeform;not you, BingoBoingo .
1584303;1481911622;asciilifeform;microscope --- bestest hammer.
1584304;1481911661;mircea_popescu;i really appreciate though that this topic can still get the blood going. you should see what it did to the monks of 1016.
1584305;1481911675;asciilifeform;or the pythagoreans
1584306;1481911675;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: just to clarify so you don't think i'm trying to fuck around, i mean that all predicates would be true under null set. i don't find that to be a good idea. that's all
1584307;1481911687;mircea_popescu;there's an ancient quote about the wine vessel aleph of a party, with 3+ being the breaking of furniture
1584308;1481911696;mircea_popescu;considerations of null set clearly are better than wine.
1584309;1481911700;BingoBoingo;lol
1584310;1481911715;BingoBoingo;Framedragger: Then don't linger in any null sets?
1584311;1481911715;mircea_popescu;Framedragger you don't so far find it to be an idea altogether, as best it can be determined.
1584312;1481911782;Framedragger;here's a compressed internal model: "mircea_popescu wants truth-conditions of predicates in set theory to abide by a kind of falsification-based criterion."
1584313;1481911802;mircea_popescu;this isn't actually what i said though.
1584314;1481911811;mircea_popescu;i just pointed out the method works ; didn't say it's the only approach.
1584315;1481911828;Framedragger;(and just for the record, i'm interpreting any remarks by anyone here charitably, assuming no snide, and trying to be snide'y myself.)
1584316;1481911835;Framedragger;okay, fair.
1584317;1481911835;asciilifeform;how come nobody barfs from multiplications by 0 yielding same result no matter what is the multiplicand, but predicates being true under the null set -- different matter ??
1584318;1481911858;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this distinction stands at the very root of naive notions of "i'm creative" vs "i'm good with math"
1584319;1481911871;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: expand ?
1584320;1481911898;mircea_popescu;ok.
1584321;1481911929;Framedragger;because first of all these are not the same thing. we would first have to introduce, say (as an example), peano arithmetic atop set theory, and go from there. "multiplication" is a diff beast. why not division? etc etc.
1584322;1481911960;mircea_popescu;it's not just that computing isn't thought ; what happens in the brain is also not reason. as far as the logic is concerned things may be whatever they are, but in the objective development of the subject there's an i-ontology and a world-ontology. this disjunction is or is not resolved in time ; but from the subjective development it was never a problem in the first place.
1584323;1481912006;mircea_popescu;Framedragger we need no such thing, "0" means the same in the language of the commutative ring R as "nill" means in the natural language above.
1584324;1481912031;mircea_popescu;it's just whether one is inclined to allocate either both of these domains to i-ontology, or just one of them.
1584325;1481912055;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform does that answer ?
1584326;1481912057;Framedragger;waitwait, algebra, okay [i'm trying to actually follow]
1584327;1481912154;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: as regards that particular point, you are probably right. but what do you mean by "i-ontology"? the latter becomes wibbly-wobbly
1584328;1481912156;Framedragger;seriously, i'll write an mp-bot with markov model to rebuke any arguments people throw at me. i'll reap ca$h.
1584329;1481912192;mircea_popescu;i mean there's a set of expectations (this is what an ontology, ie, list of items and predicates, always is) for the self ; and ANOTHER one for the world.
1584330;1481912253;mircea_popescu;what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul.
1584331;1481912254;Framedragger;okay. can you give an example? "for the self" is too continental-philosophy ;)
1584332;1481912282;mircea_popescu;yes. derps at dept of state GENUINELY BELIEVE that they "did what they had to" in mosul and the russians are being evil criminals in aleppo.
1584333;1481912304;asciilifeform;nobody afaik tries to play table tennis by tying racket to his cock, but for some odd reason various folx walk around mathematicizing with the same undisciplined organ they hallucinate the self with
1584334;1481912311;mircea_popescu;if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
1584335;1481912359;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: re. "integration", heh have you by any chance read any of jean piaget? iirc he did quite a bit of "logical system development in children, integration" etc. may be a curious read.
1584336;1481912364;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you may be surprised by that rocket thing ; iirc i posted a guy attached to a car.
1584337;1481912370;mircea_popescu;yes.
1584338;1481912461;*;Framedragger off, bbl. plox to be kind
1584339;1481912463;mircea_popescu;in any case - mental models of logic, as with mental models of anything found in nature -, are approximations. the same mechanism that allows a guy to isolate 0* from null.predicate allows one all sorts of psycho-imunological responses that are rather requisite to maintain the subjective notion of the self ~in a format comprehensible to itself~!
1584340;1481912472;mircea_popescu;that's the major restriction, and the deep source of alf's comment above
1584341;1481912496;mircea_popescu;(ie, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584223 )
1584342;1481912496;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 17:35 asciilifeform: one problem that purveyors of sad-schmuck 'maths' chronically suffer from is the expectation that a consistent model has to mesh with naive child's conception of 'N apples' arithmetic.
1584343;1481914290;trinque;I did not have a crisis of self over learning the reasoning behind the current design of WoT db.
1584344;1481914293;trinque;nor here.
1584345;1481914337;*;mircea_popescu believes.
1584346;1481914362;trinque;if we're doing "where I come from", "shut up about your feelings regarding the person and get to the meat", was it.
1584347;1481914428;*;trinque appreciates the mircea_popescu whallopings because they are immensely educative.
1584348;1481917684;BingoBoingo;Gold: "A Feminist World"—an future energy company, the Feminist Alternative Potash Corporation, wishes to mine for salts in the WIPP site. Although the team comes across the warning signs, once it becomes clear that they were written by a group consisting of mostly older white men, they dismiss them."
1584349;1481917700;BingoBoingo;^ From DEO Report on nuclear waste security
1584350;1481917707;BingoBoingo;*DOE
1584351;1481917711;mircea_popescu;wut ?!
1584352;1481917835;BingoBoingo;From a group hypothesizing ways a nuclear waste site could be breached in the future.
1584353;1481917856;mircea_popescu;oh i see, the old "chucka hunter-gatherer party warms self on rtg innards"
1584354;1481917862;BingoBoingo;Other scenarios include compulsively drilling robots, and Roger Verian treasure seekers.
1584355;1481917908;mircea_popescu;good to know feminist is how you say chucka in usian
1584356;1481917912;BingoBoingo;Final possibility is in 10,000 years theme park erected on site and site not having been breeched is a sucess.
1584357;1481919081;asciilifeform;ahahahahaha the 'we'll pretend breeder reactor never happened so to prop up petroworld' folx.
1584358;1481919087;asciilifeform;they are always great for a lolball.
1584359;1481919112;asciilifeform;(for n00bz/readers -- long-lived nuke waste is ~optional~)
1584360;1481920591;Framedragger;asciilifeform: as in, nuclear waste storage is a propped-up issue/narrative? interesting
1584361;1481920846;asciilifeform;Framedragger: correct. it is possible to carry on fission with < ~100 yr.-halflife exhaust. But It Would Be Wrong (tm) (r) because ohnoez, 'reactor indistinguishable from weapons cycle' and ohnoez nonpetropowered world.
1584362;1481920925;Framedragger;ahh. i guess in the same vein, "stop what you're doing iran because it's weapons, and wrong"
1584363;1481921188;mircea_popescu;tis not so plain an' simple as all that alfie. notwithstanding that yeah, prolly breeder reactors are going to take over as we run out of space to put the waste ; nevertheless they're more expensive an' complicated and etc. simply larger bar.
1584364;1481921249;mircea_popescu;current used types are yet cheaper ; mostly because uranium turned out to be more plentiful than anyone realised in the 50s, and because the cost of waste storage is not properly accounted.
1584365;1481921258;mircea_popescu;that 2nd lobe will change the economics, but in decades from now.
1584366;1481921335;asciilifeform;very much cheaper, esp. since cost of breeder, properly accounted, includes obliteration of usg AND petrolizards
1584367;1481921342;asciilifeform;which ain't cheap
1584368;1481921348;mircea_popescu;yeah well ; to create a new set of miners.
1584369;1481921681;mircea_popescu;anyway. the problem of very long lived actinides (like iodine 129) is certain to eventually drive burner designs. even if they're run as two separate installatiosn as currently the case for some insane reason (really, germany burns up uranium in light water reactor, then ships the leftover by train to france to be reburned in a special burner. could have done all in one place but hey.).
1584370;1481921863;mircea_popescu;anyway. afaik both russia and japan still run significant (ie gigawatt) breeder designs
1584371;1481922201;BingoBoingo;Oh, the joys of living in small town land. In anticipation of freezing rain, the "city" sprinkled the good BLUE ice melt on hills.
1584372;1481922893;Framedragger;http://i.imgur.com/Dz73av4.jpg << lul
1584373;1481922992;mod6;that ice-rain stuff is the worst.
1584374;1481923222;BingoBoingo;Nah, it's normal
1584375;1481923267;mod6;you like everything being coated in ice?  it's rare here, since it just usually snows, but when it does, power outage everywhere.
1584376;1481923351;mircea_popescu;yeah it can be brutal. had my patio furniture turned to sculptures once ; it looked damn pretty but everything was soldered in place.
1584377;1481923507;mod6;yeh, it is very pretty actually.  but just awful beyond that factor. haha.
1584378;1481923642;BingoBoingo;It's not enjoyable, but it is normal. Far from being "the worst"
1584379;1481923770;BingoBoingo;The summertime plague of "100 and 100" is worse by far.
1584380;1481923877;trinque;the peace of nobody else being outside is - at least for a city dweller - lovely. no such respite in the south.
1584381;1481923935;BingoBoingo;Aha, trinque gets it. The outdoor null set!
1584382;1481924021;trinque;lol. see this thing gets clearer and clearer.
1584383;1481924252;BingoBoingo;Nah, eventually the ice cracks, refreezes, and gets cloudy.
1584384;1481925364;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: carlos ghosn is understandably well known in the auto industry. he's a true lebzilianenchman (lebanese-brazilian-frenchman), meaning he has a strong aesthetic sense but he's also quite the fierce deal-maker. only in the last 5 years has akio toyoda risen to ghosn's level as an overall strategist, product developer, and brand manager. alan mullaly and martin winterkorn were the only other two
1584385;1481925366;pete_dushenski;of that same visionary calibre, but these latter two stepped down in the last couple of years (from ford and vw, respectively). i'm not persuaded that the rest of the lot, even say sergio marchionne, are anything more than bankruptcy artists slithering from swindle to swindle.
1584386;1481925401;pete_dushenski;but yea, ghosn's quite the boss.
1584387;1481925505;pete_dushenski;in addition to his dual-ceo jobs at renault and nissan, ghosn also recently took over managing the fumbling mitsubishi, of which his alliance now owns a third.
1584388;1481925537;mircea_popescu;aha!
1584389;1481925591;*;pete_dushenski was always one of those weird 'car guys' who fancied the machinations of the industry more than the greasy bits.
1584390;1481925595;mircea_popescu;and some ru misventure.
1584391;1481925669;pete_dushenski;'avtosvaz' wtf that is.
1584392;1481925688;pete_dushenski;not gaz, not zil, not trabant, that's all i know
1584393;1481925706;asciilifeform;trabant?!
1584394;1481925723;asciilifeform;sometimes i get impression that folx are posting from a parallel world
1584395;1481925755;*;asciilifeform pulls out balalaika to adjust reactor and turn the bear in to the kgb
1584396;1481925778;mircea_popescu;trabant would actually be a great brand under which to roll up all the vc/sv "revolutionary tech"
1584397;1481925799;*;pete_dushenski sees that avtovaz makes lada, scolds himself for ignorance.
1584398;1481925856;pete_dushenski;!~google electric trabant
1584399;1481925857;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: Sadly, It's True. The Electric Trabant Is Real. | WIRED: <https://www.wired.com/2009/09/electric-trabant/>; Trabant nT - The Project - Trabant nT: <http://www.trabant-nt.de/365/en/the-project.aspx>; Trabant nT - The Project - Your Opinion: <http://www.trabant-nt.de/375/en/the-project/your-opinion.aspx>
1584400;1481925866;pete_dushenski;^^
1584401;1481926004;pete_dushenski;anyways, looks like ukrainians, peruvians, chileans and bolivians can buy new lada. even republic of south ossetia!!! but not can, usa, arg, etc.
1584402;1481926021;asciilifeform;cheap cars are banned in usa.
1584403;1481926024;asciilifeform;have been for decades.
1584404;1481926055;pete_dushenski;eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen.
1584405;1481926063;asciilifeform;auto loan is one of the whales on which the elephants stand, right down there with real estate racket.
1584406;1481926107;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: where do i buy these
1584407;1481926112;pete_dushenski;so not quite $5k dacia logan, admittedly, or tata nano, but ustards literally pay less for cars than anywhere else in the world accounting for currency.
1584408;1481926121;pete_dushenski;(if not accounting for ppp)
1584409;1481926122;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584149 << would you elaborate?
1584410;1481926122;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 16:37 mircea_popescu: speaking of which ben_vulpes : how would you feel about adding a rsync-like interface for wotpaste through rsa sessions ?
1584411;1481926140;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: link to the 8k auto plox, i could use this
1584412;1481926159;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: you've heard of car dealerships ? they're like computer stores, except for cars.
1584413;1481926166;pete_dushenski;wonderful things.
1584414;1481926170;asciilifeform;yes and there are no 4figure price tags there
1584415;1481926175;asciilifeform;haven't been since i was a boy.
1584416;1481926184;asciilifeform;not at a ~new~ auto lot anyway.
1584417;1481926186;phf;cheapest i found was 18k for some of the kia models
1584418;1481926189;asciilifeform;^^
1584419;1481926195;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i'm not altogether certain how it'd work, but basically i'd like it if mimisbrunnr allowed me to buy storage on wotpaste. i could pay from trinque 's deedbot once it's done ; and i should be able to buy by the gb of storage or by the tb of traffic.
1584420;1481926214;mircea_popescu;maybe it could give me credentials on !%cred ?
1584421;1481926216;ben_vulpes;uci by any other name...
1584422;1481926227;mircea_popescu;very limited, storage / web only.
1584423;1481926234;mircea_popescu;gotta start somewhere.
1584424;1481926307;mircea_popescu;basically all you have to get together is a rsync-like and an elastic store/web infrastructure.
1584425;1481926368;ben_vulpes;"rsync-like" has rather a few assumptions baked in
1584426;1481926374;mircea_popescu;enumerate plox.
1584427;1481926389;ben_vulpes;transport, and auth for two.
1584428;1481926418;mircea_popescu;well evidently the tmsr-rsa isn't ready, so i'm guessing ad interim a scheme like this could work
1584429;1481926446;ben_vulpes;i may be thick, by 'rsync-like' implies to me some amount of shell access for l*
1584430;1481926467;pete_dushenski;phf: asciilifeform my research says that the nissan micra less than cad$10k, which is about $usd7.5, but sadly for you both, our good friend carlos ghosn saw fit not to sell it to you lot. sfyl ?
1584431;1481926484;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: and in india, 4k, even more 'sfyl' etc
1584432;1481926503;mircea_popescu;1. user says !%cred ; 2. mimisbrunnr replies with link to rsa-encrypted user/pass/url combination for, eg, a ftp session ; 3. if i share the url, i share the url, with whoever i want ; 4. you meter and bill ; 5. !%destroy kills it
1584433;1481926508;asciilifeform;as i said -- usa bans cheap auto. because usury.
1584434;1481926522;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seems like you want 'g' after all
1584435;1481926531;mircea_popescu;which one was g ?
1584436;1481926536;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: there's also this idea, prevalent and very much the norm in car industry, of 'dealer may sell for less'.
1584437;1481926536;asciilifeform;(i described exactly this scheme , in march iirc )
1584438;1481926546;mircea_popescu;link ?
1584439;1481926604;asciilifeform;1s
1584440;1481926606;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes ideally 4 works like, billed on 5 or else when X qty of btc is due, say 0.1 or w/e.
1584441;1481926617;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was the thing that touched off the block ciphers thread
1584442;1481926634;mircea_popescu;and evidently you'd have to have a !%prices
1584443;1481926641;*;mircea_popescu checks if !% is someone already lol
1584444;1481926668;pete_dushenski;tbot!
1584445;1481926669;mod6;yeah
1584446;1481926670;mircea_popescu;so it is. heh. !W
1584447;1481926696;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski wtf happened to !Q ?
1584448;1481926738;ben_vulpes;why no more top-row bot trigger combinations?
1584449;1481926749;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes it's concentric from !
1584450;1481926750;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-02#1394069 << thread re subj
1584451;1481926750;a111;Logged on 2016-02-02 15:53 ascii_butugychag: so there's a proggy i've been testin'
1584452;1481926764;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: concentric?
1584453;1481926788;pete_dushenski;!#s iQ
1584454;1481926789;a111;230 results for "iQ", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=iQ
1584455;1481926802;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski i mean in the bot thing on your site.
1584456;1481926814;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yes, !A is closer to ! than !&
1584457;1481926819;BingoBoingo;<pete_dushenski> eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen. << Maybe in Double Norte Americano, but in Single Norte Americano those left in the 1990's
1584458;1481926832;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: o i know, i just thought we gave it out.
1584459;1481926836;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: a man with two hands upon the kb will more easily type !)
1584460;1481926842;ben_vulpes;!+ even
1584461;1481926848;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: go and try and sell 8k auto when ~mandatory~ airbag is ~3k
1584462;1481926854;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha, like that.
1584463;1481926864;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes don;t you hold shift with the right ?
1584464;1481926869;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: lobbesbot
1584465;1481926874;mircea_popescu;ah kk ty pete_dushenski
1584466;1481926876;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: don't you hold shift with the left?!
1584467;1481926878;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541939
1584468;1481926878;a111;Logged on 2016-09-14 18:57 lobbes: Aight. I'll set lobbesbot to !Q
1584469;1481926894;pete_dushenski;lol i just mistyped !Q as iQ is all.
1584470;1481926900;mircea_popescu;nope. when typing commands i use the right for the right shift, the fuck finger for ! and the index for whatever else.
1584471;1481926920;mircea_popescu;therefore bot commands will be known as fucksticks.
1584472;1481926932;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: AHA, these things pete_dushenski is raving about are stricly Canadian thing.
1584473;1481926939;*;pete_dushenski also uses right shift for commands
1584474;1481926976;ben_vulpes;and you two are strictly talking about irc interfaces?
1584475;1481926986;mircea_popescu;actually on meditation i almost never use left shift. cuz my left thumb is on ctrl/macro
1584476;1481926998;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'g' was result of my frustration with trb's plaintext tcp
1584477;1481927000;*;ben_vulpes has a whole wad of key chords, irc a vanishingly small fraction
1584478;1481927002;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes well no, i get a ftp and a wwb for the trouble.
1584479;1481927014;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you wanna give him the code or what ?
1584480;1481927046;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: it's mostly that we just get shittier models here, eg. micra. but obv. with weaker currency we pay more for same model. this is thankfully compensated by being richer in btc/localfiat terms.
1584481;1481927049;mircea_popescu;www* not wwb
1584482;1481927068;ben_vulpes;control, escape, meta these are all swappable between hands on my setup
1584483;1481927074;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it needs tmsr-rsa (i ain't releasing anything with aes or koch's idiocy)
1584484;1481927090;mircea_popescu;eh it'll be fine.
1584485;1481927094;asciilifeform;and tmsr-rsa needs rng.
1584486;1481927095;mircea_popescu;when that happens, we can upgrade.
1584487;1481927132;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Anyways the solution to the "wheels for alf" problem is he needs three 1990's Lexus IS 300's from which to construct a one superior example.
1584488;1481927145;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it so happens that i have a working auto
1584489;1481927158;mircea_popescu;i bet he drives like, a honda.
1584490;1481927159;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen. << Maybe in Double Norte Americano, but in Single Norte Americano those left in the 1990's << is mexico null norte americano in bb's paradigm ?
1584491;1481927161;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Then why seeking 8k new auto
1584492;1481927165;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: almost
1584493;1481927171;mircea_popescu;husqvarna ?
1584494;1481927180;asciilifeform;it's an ancient 'acura'
1584495;1481927180;BingoBoingo;Kubota?
1584496;1481927181;pete_dushenski;ties in nicely to earlier mega-thread!
1584497;1481927192;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes do you get the idea ?
1584498;1481927211;asciilifeform;but i'd sure like to not have to pay 5figs for its replacement when it finally crumbles.
1584499;1481927222;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Mexico is Median Americano
1584500;1481927243;ben_vulpes;of the rsync-alike? somewhat. the fucksticks, i do not see.
1584501;1481927252;mircea_popescu;gotta be moar patriotic, alf. buy gm, help the great again along.
1584502;1481927257;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Just get two more identical cars for parts!!!
1584503;1481927268;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: anyways, don't get hung up on initial capital outlay, even if you're thinking of financing. tco (total cost of ownership) is the name of the game. ask ben_vulpes.
1584504;1481927282;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes eh, the command codes are inconsequential. i mean the rsync.
1584505;1481927282;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i barely have where to keep 1
1584506;1481927293;*;trinque actually in the market for new vehicle as of yesterday.
1584507;1481927306;ben_vulpes;trinque: finally ded, eh?
1584508;1481927309;mircea_popescu;try and eat dropbox market why not :)
1584509;1481927312;ben_vulpes;what was the last straw?
1584510;1481927318;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Then assemble the best of the parts into best possible car sooner?
1584511;1481927319;trinque;vw wagon finally gave up the timing chain ghost, also exhaust blew into coolant system
1584512;1481927325;ben_vulpes;hoho
1584513;1481927328;trinque;it was just old as shit and drove in too many different climates
1584514;1481927338;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i haven't anywhere where to assemble
1584515;1481927351;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 0 pavement that isn't a city street.
1584516;1481927365;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: interesting idea, i'll chew on it
1584517;1481927367;BingoBoingo;How much is one of those garage sized "self storage" things go for around your parts?
1584518;1481927369;mircea_popescu;worx
1584519;1481927373;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: $maxint
1584520;1481927391;pete_dushenski;trinque: what has two thumbs and loves the car shopping for other people game ? this guy!
1584521;1481927470;ben_vulpes;trinque: get a lotus elise
1584522;1481927488;*;trinque seriously contemplating used 4runner with low mileage
1584523;1481927504;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: when mine rusts away, i might not even replace it, 20k usd buys a great many cab rides. probably more than i'd need in the 5yrs that a 20k-usd machine costs now.
1584524;1481927517;trinque;driving up mountains / on beaches  > *
1584525;1481927523;asciilifeform;*lasts
1584526;1481927526;BingoBoingo;trinque: Just break down and get 5 Saturn L-series
1584527;1481927527;ben_vulpes;pickup + elise
1584528;1481927543;ben_vulpes;itt: excellent advice
1584529;1481927547;trinque;lol
1584530;1481927548;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: if only you lived back in great ru motherland, you could have perfect post-apocalyptic people's 4x4 : http://www.lada.ru/en/cars/4x4/3dv/tth.html
1584531;1481927551;mircea_popescu;maybe in buenos aires. in wash dc 20k buys like 150 cab rides
1584532;1481927562;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ~200
1584533;1481927566;asciilifeform;depending on to where
1584534;1481927594;asciilifeform;and that's about how many times i leave the house in 2-3 yrs.
1584535;1481927610;mircea_popescu;2-3 not 5 yo.
1584536;1481927618;asciilifeform;yes. but it approaches !
1584537;1481927624;mircea_popescu;meanwhile here, cab from city end to city end is like 20 bux
1584538;1481927625;asciilifeform;and perhaps i could leave house -- less yet.
1584539;1481927632;mircea_popescu;AND these people drive like monkeys on jenkem
1584540;1481927641;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: "amazon prime nao!"
1584541;1481927658;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: aha, such as.
1584542;1481927671;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Here is your next vehicle, took ~4 minutes to find https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/5905446961.html
1584543;1481927677;ben_vulpes;for some, there are few joys like burning petrol with friends.
1584544;1481927696;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i never understood the point in buying these
1584545;1481927706;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: see the earlier 'total cost' point
1584546;1481927706;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: low maintenance costs
1584547;1481927709;trinque;if I were in an area with trains I'd go without a car for a while. wouldn't be the first time.
1584548;1481927713;asciilifeform;low if you have a garage.
1584549;1481927719;trinque;PDX is perhaps one of the best places for this.
1584550;1481927719;BingoBoingo;Low insurance costs
1584551;1481927728;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: high 'randomly stuck places' cost.
1584552;1481927745;BingoBoingo;What?
1584553;1481927746;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: have you tried installing eulora on a mac ?
1584554;1481927747;ben_vulpes;trinque: recent 'snowpaclypse' affected me /not one whit/, as i could stroll to the train and be in city center more-or-less on domenad
1584555;1481927748;asciilifeform;littoral combat car.
1584556;1481927759;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: once a very long time ago
1584557;1481927765;ben_vulpes;phf is your man for that
1584558;1481927781;pete_dushenski;mhm. k. i'll bug him.
1584559;1481927781;ben_vulpes;i don't think it's quite as simple as 'brew install eulora', although it was close
1584560;1481927783;trinque;ben_vulpes: this among the things I miss.
1584561;1481927801;BingoBoingo;Find other alf car candidate https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/5922091027.html
1584562;1481927809;ben_vulpes;trinque: 'tis a wonder of socialist engineering
1584563;1481927815;BingoBoingo;Only $500 more
1584564;1481927845;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo compulsively collects 'lemons' or wat.
1584565;1481927873;ben_vulpes;neighbor of mine was whingeing about the cost of the light rail, "o noes it'll never pay for itself" "my man, it got me to move to this neighbhorhood. give it a decade and you'll make the difference up personally with home value increase."
1584566;1481927873;BingoBoingo;Car is not lemon just because it turns 13 years old. In Cuba car is still young at that age!
1584567;1481927902;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: but car ~is~ lemon if 13yo ford. esp explorer
1584568;1481927909;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: a 2000s auto is a lemon after 5-7 yrs.
1584569;1481927929;*;ben_vulpes looks at 04 pilot about to crack 200k outside
1584570;1481927931;ben_vulpes;nope
1584571;1481927990;asciilifeform;eh ben_vulpes is not a civilian, he gentoos his autos
1584572;1481928012;ben_vulpes;possibly 'lemon' if you can't get in a car and hear mid diff wobble, possibly lemon if you don't do the sale at a dealership and pay 100 for the safety inspection before purchasing, possibly lemon if all sorts of 'civilian'
1584573;1481928047;ben_vulpes;alternative is 'new tax'.
1584574;1481928177;BingoBoingo;$2350 https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/5922271737.html
1584575;1481928283;ben_vulpes;> 202k mails
1584576;1481928298;mircea_popescu;lol!
1584577;1481928302;ben_vulpes;fuck, buddy
1584578;1481928306;ben_vulpes;that's a good lookin truck
1584579;1481928384;BingoBoingo;If $2500 dollar car lasts 5 years averages to $500 per car/year. Would take much unexpected bullshit to make expensive.
1584580;1481928696;ben_vulpes;srs
1584581;1481928751;ben_vulpes;"you know, babe, instead of a single car that cost 35K, we could have.../35k of cars/"
1584582;1481928852;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'd actually rather have a trabant, if they could be had, at least they were cheap, than these monstrosities that drink petrol like airplane and die without warning in traffic
1584583;1481928864;BingoBoingo;Put on a camper shell and you have a FUCKGOATS transporter
1584584;1481928885;ben_vulpes;http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5919119785.html << be still my heart
1584585;1481928891;BingoBoingo;What die without warning? Plenty of warnings!
1584586;1481928907;pete_dushenski;http://bringatrailer.com/auctions/ << plenty of solid, well-cared-for metal for under 10k here alf. as the lots cover the continent, you can even make a road trip (blog story!) out of the adventure. also gives you a chance to play autions without playing eulora.
1584587;1481928913;shinohai;Oh gawd ben_vulpes ... the trunk on those things can sleep 6!
1584588;1481928922;ben_vulpes;shinohai: all the more room for cleats and helmets
1584589;1481928934;ben_vulpes;why drive a minivan when you can drive an EIGHTIES CADILLAC i aska you
1584590;1481928941;*;shinohai agrees
1584591;1481928946;asciilifeform;http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3145342016203910@naggum.no.html << see also
1584592;1481928978;asciilifeform;' I recently bought a fountain pen.  it cost the equivalent of about 1500 throw-away ball pens.  1500 ball pens would have made me very frustrated, but this sleek, elegant pen made me happy.'
1584593;1481928979;ben_vulpes;back on cadillac tindr
1584594;1481929025;ben_vulpes;omg or this deville http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5912437603.html
1584595;1481929027;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: it is not enough to buy a lemon, i should also travel to some shithole to do it?!
1584596;1481929098;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: dude, walking out your front door is 'travelling to some shithole'. and no one will bring new car to you! so might as well live a little. remember how fun chicago was ? or ba ?
1584597;1481929207;asciilifeform;problem is that i dun actually ~like~ 'car ricing'. auto is best when it is forgotten about every day except when there is no way to escape driving somewhere, best when it 'stfus', like one's appendix.
1584598;1481929231;*;ben_vulpes has several hondas, they are precisely this.
1584599;1481929232;*;trinque wonders if after USocalypse, he too will think everything is terrible.
1584600;1481929268;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/QDzJl << ben_vulpes will like. a fleetwood piece penned by my older pal / newer sparring partner jack baruth
1584601;1481929303;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: ~several~ ?!
1584602;1481929310;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: toyota then. lexus if you sell a million fuckgoats.
1584603;1481929317;asciilifeform;everyone but asciilifeform collects rustbuckets?!
1584604;1481929366;trinque;"teh yankees have always produced plastic blue jeans"
1584605;1481929368;trinque;lel
1584606;1481929370;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: sell a couple, buy airplane, those at least are actual fun
1584607;1481929374;trinque;the shit works both ways y'see!
1584608;1481929406;BingoBoingo;Anyways since it is clear alf needs to stick to Jap metal https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ctd/5922156298.html
1584609;1481929426;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: btw the kazakh d00d on junkbay actually has mig engine nao
1584610;1481929432;asciilifeform;iirc you needed one
1584611;1481929460;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: well, tbf, you put all your rust ~in your house~ with all those old pdps and alphas. at least we put ours in garages.
1584612;1481929497;*;asciilifeform has never ftr owned a pdp 
1584613;1481929549;asciilifeform;but yes, unlike you rich folx, all of my rusty anchors have to fit in small space.
1584614;1481929590;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: capital equipment is not for 'fun'
1584615;1481929608;ben_vulpes;mig engines are for 'fun'
1584616;1481929663;BingoBoingo;What about STFU buy used screams rich folk? If 2005-later cars suck the solution is buy older!
1584617;1481929770;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: classic 'gentooist' mistake in thinking: to forget to factor in the costs, not insignificant, of garage space, of time spent dealing with the finicky rusty bucket
1584618;1481929791;asciilifeform;of being stuck in roads, parking lots
1584619;1481929808;asciilifeform;of hunting for parts
1584620;1481929839;asciilifeform;you're still paying ~= what new auto costs, just more slowly, painfully
1584621;1481929861;asciilifeform;unless you are already 'grease man' and so it seems 'free'...
1584622;1481929897;ben_vulpes;"this dress took me thirty minutes and ten years to make"
1584623;1481929909;asciilifeform;aha.
1584624;1481929936;ben_vulpes;theorems to prove, belts to change...
1584625;1481929971;ben_vulpes;fwiw, i find car-swearing-time doubles as excellent design/thinking time.
1584626;1481930045;asciilifeform;i know a d00d who reassembles '50s 'golden age of usa' autos. has machine shop, and even multiple houses , which he rents out except for garage, in each - keeps 1-3 of these museum pieces
1584627;1481930070;pete_dushenski;"Uber relies on location services to ensure safe and accurate rides. In this latest version of the app, you’ll now be asked to allow location information collection from the time you request a ride through up to five minutes after it ends. This helps identify better pickup and dropoff points and helps customer service if you ever need to contact us about a trip. You’ll always be in control over what
1584628;1481930072;pete_dushenski;location information is shared and can adjust this at any time in your device settings." << from latest version update. one wonders, why only 5 minutes ? why not perma-on ? perhaps "coming soon" (™). also, this is alf's alterna-car! THIS!!!1
1584629;1481930076;asciilifeform;at one point i wanted to rent one of his houses, but learned that every single garage is in use !
1584630;1481930087;asciilifeform;so 0 plus over my current one...
1584631;1481930116;ben_vulpes;with the new monstrosity abutting the property line next door, i think i've finally bumped carport up on the list of shit to build
1584632;1481930135;ben_vulpes;omg may i relate how bad a job next door is doing
1584633;1481930141;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: i used 'uber' a number of times, it is a very mixed bag
1584634;1481930153;ben_vulpes;so the vinyl, stamped-with-wood-grain siding showed up and was applied to the house
1584635;1481930178;ben_vulpes;and maybe 2 boards out of the whole 150' house length per row are matched at the ends
1584636;1481930199;ben_vulpes;which is particularly amusing, as this stamped material is designed to line up perfectly for the whole run
1584637;1481930607;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: i've generally had very positive experiences with it. 95% excellent drivers. 75% decent cars. proper taxi flips those two figures but also costs 20% more and wait times are unreliable.
1584638;1481930636;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: sounds gnasty.
1584639;1481930660;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> you're still paying ~= what new auto costs, just more slowly, painfully << Nah at some point you just break up with car and get new $2500 car for another few years.
1584640;1481930686;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: it's the picking-up part that works half the time.
1584641;1481930748;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: Problem is after stamped plastic leaves factory
1584642;1481930758;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: when booting  anode in 'solipsistic test network' mode with gen=1 and genproclimit=some reasonable fraction of local cores, i should see a few cores go to 100% utilization immediately, no?
1584643;1481930764;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: noshit.png
1584644;1481930776;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: problem is anyhing that introduces 'will it start tomorrow??' into my workflow.
1584645;1481930796;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: theoretically
1584646;1481930823;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: In that case you want a 90s honda civic or 90s lexus 300
1584647;1481930864;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: 'getinfo' is telling me '0 hashes per sec', which is troubling
1584648;1481930872;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that converts it to 'yes it started, but will it stop before i finish going to $place'
1584649;1481930900;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you have empty blockchain ? (genesis only ) ?
1584650;1481930916;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Max cost of brake work on such a vehicle tops out at ~900 to ~1200 to replace entire "make car stop" system.
1584651;1481930939;BingoBoingo;Some expenses actually have a maximum
1584652;1481930941;asciilifeform;replace with ~what~ ?
1584653;1481930952;asciilifeform;where do i buy a NEW 80s merc motor.
1584654;1481930955;pete_dushenski;as someone who just oversaw ownership of early 2000s lexus is300 that put on 40k km in a year, i'm not sure i'd recommend it unless you're pretty handy. not hard to work on, but parts aren't super cheap, it's a bit dicey in the winter, it's a ~very~ firm ride, and it's soooo hard on consumables (gas and oil).
1584655;1481930967;BingoBoingo;new pads, calipers, rotors, drums, cylinders...
1584656;1481930978;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: genesis only
1584657;1481930991;BingoBoingo;Oh, I thought you meant "will car stop when I press pedal" misread
1584658;1481931028;BingoBoingo;And we are not talking 80s merc motors unless pete_dushenski, we are talking 90s honda motors of which there are LEGION!
1584659;1481931031;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: no, i meant 100% deterministic operation, starts when i turn key, stops -- when i unturn it, and never else.
1584660;1481931047;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: new ones?!
1584661;1481931051;BingoBoingo;In which case 90s honda is solid choice
1584662;1481931060;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Rebuilt and remanufactered ones
1584663;1481931067;asciilifeform;not same.
1584664;1481931098;BingoBoingo;It's Honda, quintessential "idiot proof" car
1584665;1481931131;asciilifeform;'dun worry, when your lemon dies, you can assemble a new one with parts from other lemons'
1584666;1481931132;BingoBoingo;Brand new anything gets problems too
1584667;1481931154;BingoBoingo;But more expensive ones because loan keeps "throw it away and replace" from being option
1584668;1481931280;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: describe plox your experimental setup (node)
1584669;1481931381;asciilifeform;iirc you need '-gen' not '-gen=1'
1584670;1481931422;ben_vulpes;in bitcoin.conf?
1584671;1481931443;ben_vulpes;can be stuffed in cli
1584672;1481931445;ben_vulpes;np
1584673;1481931479;ben_vulpes;a recently compiled bitcoin node, running in its own directory, booted as `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoin -datadir=<local_data_directory> -debug -printtoconsole -gen'
1584674;1481931485;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/init.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0398
1584675;1481931558;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: what does getgenerate rpc call return .
1584676;1481931568;asciilifeform;?
1584677;1481931591;ben_vulpes;getgenerate returns true, but fGenerateBitcoins is 0 at boot
1584678;1481931620;asciilifeform;it is always 0 at boot
1584679;1481931669;ben_vulpes;ah
1584680;1481931681;asciilifeform;there's 1 more thing
1584681;1481931695;asciilifeform;how the fuck do you intend to generate a block without any tx
1584682;1481931725;asciilifeform;iirc you need at least 1 on trb
1584683;1481931734;asciilifeform;in mempool
1584684;1481931743;ben_vulpes;first hundred and seventy went fine
1584685;1481931751;ben_vulpes;COOL
1584686;1481931770;asciilifeform;170 of what
1584687;1481931774;ben_vulpes;blocks.
1584688;1481931780;ben_vulpes;first hundred and seventy only paid out to satoshi iirc.
1584689;1481931781;asciilifeform;and then stopped ?
1584690;1481931797;ben_vulpes;no then he sent some somewhere?
1584691;1481931829;asciilifeform;satoshi was not mining on trb eh
1584692;1481931836;ben_vulpes;true nuff
1584693;1481931842;*;ben_vulpes bbl, child has self-aborted nap
1584694;1481931854;asciilifeform;i have nfi presently what 0.1 or whatnot did re mining.
1584695;1481931858;*;ben_vulpes will read miner source for the site of this brilliance
1584696;1481931893;ben_vulpes;miner should work just fine without a tx in mempool wtf
1584697;1481931971;asciilifeform;btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790
1584698;1481931998;asciilifeform;it also dun work unless you have 1+ peer, apparently
1584699;1481932006;asciilifeform;(dun ask me why)
1584700;1481932017;ben_vulpes;ah
1584701;1481932028;ben_vulpes;dumb
1584702;1481932077;asciilifeform;this part of trb is completely virginal 0.5.3 btw
1584703;1481932135;asciilifeform;btw phf do you think we could get a src viewer in your vtron that makes this kind of thing apparent to naked eye?
1584704;1481932155;asciilifeform;like jurov's lxr, but vtronic.
1584705;1481932175;asciilifeform;(shows from where in the vflow is each line)
1584706;1481932176;ben_vulpes;neat idea
1584707;1481932235;asciilifeform;see, in my head, i can see who last touched what, but this continue forever, is not a substitute for actual tool
1584708;1481932252;asciilifeform;*cannot continue
1584709;1481932304;*;ben_vulpes bbl for real this time
1584710;1481932340;asciilifeform;btw i was mistaken, you don't need nonempty mempool
1584711;1481932352;asciilifeform;but you ~do~ for some perverse reason need a peer.
1584712;1481932364;asciilifeform;at least until we clean this piece up.
1584713;1481932579;BingoBoingo;latest rental box has crossed 300,000 in sync!
1584714;1481932795;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583922 << ahahahaha i almost missed this gem
1584715;1481932795;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 11:13 Framedragger: https://i.imgur.com/QC51FZz.png
1584716;1481932797;BingoBoingo;sync not being done for any great technical reason other than to remind self I'm getting old.
1584717;1481934423;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584633 << tried it exactly once because in weird hipster company. they proposed i wait something like i dun recall 40 minutes ? i just called a guy.
1584718;1481934423;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 23:15 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i used 'uber' a number of times, it is a very mixed bag
1584719;1481934650;mircea_popescu;and holy shit that github retardation... people actually put up with this shit ? really ?
1584720;1481934654;mircea_popescu;fucking retards...
1584721;1481934676;mircea_popescu;i don't get it, how can anyone admit to having a github myspace nowadays ?
1584722;1481934716;*;asciilifeform has an ancient one with buncha fpga crud
1584723;1481934744;*;mircea_popescu is going to ask kids this from now on. "oh, you have a github ? aren;t you ashamed of yourself ?"
1584724;1481934933;asciilifeform;https://github.com/asciilifeform << believe or not.
1584725;1481934995;mircea_popescu;eh im not going there.
1584726;1481935016;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: believe me -- you aren't missing anything
1584727;1481935040;asciilifeform;(unless you have an old cypress chip on something. in which case you are, lel)
1584728;1481935180;mircea_popescu;ill live.
1584729;1481936735;phf;asciilifeform: would be pretty easy if it's just press with highlight and blame. xref a little bit more complicated
1584730;1481936751;phf;i guess one step at a time
1584731;1481936765;mircea_popescu;the blamebutton
1584732;1481937729;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/56D56D14AB5ED377D1CBEE0B27EB0D059473CA4C46DF9D4847CD06E024EE3967 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2726...8313 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.71.195.193 (ssh-rsa key from 80.71.195.193 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (getweb01.epte.fi. FI)
1584733;1481938269;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B6EE2D514424C138EC086E5840C712BFEA64874871CDB7D082605E69F709710B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2694...4299 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.193.153.122 (ssh-rsa key from 66.193.153.122 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US HI)
1584734;1481940005;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/215-press-releases-2016/1460-statement-on-requests-for-additional-information-on-russian-interference-in-the-2016-presidential-election
1584735;1481940289;trinque;I suppose Julian Assange is KGB, too.
1584736;1481940300;trinque;if you truly believe he is still alive!1!!1
1584737;1481940491;mircea_popescu;nuts.
1584738;1481940674;asciilifeform;in other lulz, yet another honeypot, https://www.sigaint.org/incidents.html
1584739;1481940701;asciilifeform;'Pay Shield, SIGAINT's Bitcoin mixer, is on separate infrastructure and was in  no way affected. SIGAINT's Monero server is on separate infrastructure and was in no way  affected. SIGAINT also runs 4 Tor middle nodes in support of the Tor network, these  machines are also on separate infrastructure and were in no way affected.'
1584740;1481940712;asciilifeform;and moar 'we weren't raped!1111 really'
1584741;1481940719;phf;trully, хомячки закопошились. in unrelated lulz the phrase top hit is logs
1584742;1481940732;asciilifeform;nowai
1584743;1481940736;phf;(re senate)
1584744;1481940746;asciilifeform;aaaah i thought re  хомячки
1584745;1481940791;phf;well, no the hamster thing is re senate, the top hit is re hamsters
1584746;1481940823;mircea_popescu;im confused.
1584747;1481940960;phf;i was saying re senate in the second phrase in reference to hamsters in first phrase, which was in reference to senate in the asciilifeform url, but the phrase itself was top hit for logs, which is referenced in the second phrase as top hit, and in the first phrase as unrelated lulz. how can this be any clearer
1584748;1481940974;mircea_popescu;this helped.
1584749;1481940981;mircea_popescu;could i now have it in haskell ?
1584750;1481942385;*;mircea_popescu has completed some research, turns out the jewz did nyc and the russkis did trump 2016!
1584751;1481942406;mircea_popescu;is there no room for law abiding everyday americans anymore than you.
1584752;1481942487;mircea_popescu;but seriously, watching the great unracists trying to sell xenophobia in a desperate-if-doomed attempt to deny their own irrelevance is slightly surreal.
1584753;1481942612;asciilifeform;http://www.standard.net/Our-View/2016/12/07/DonaldTrump-AirForceOne-costs-Boeing-F35-HillAirForceBase-Utah-RobBishop-OrrinHatch-editorial.html << related
1584754;1481942636;asciilifeform;'...if Trump’s already calling for the cancellation of the Air Force One program, he could just as easily target the F-35 — and that’s a potential disaster for Northern Utah.' << ohnoez, 1,000,001 leeches might starve!
1584755;1481942645;mircea_popescu;heh
1584756;1481942671;mircea_popescu;f35 getting scrapped seems quite likely as it stands now.
1584757;1481942700;trinque;either before or after shot down.
1584758;1481942730;asciilifeform;no seeee it's the world's only bulletproof airplane
1584759;1481942738;asciilifeform;(...won't get anywhere near battle)
1584760;1481942759;mircea_popescu;sounds like the perfect item to supply the us carriers
1584761;1481942768;mircea_popescu;which idem, won't go anywhere near a warzone later than 1990s
1584762;1481943245;phf;relevant http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/all/1/
1584763;1481943324;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1584764;1481943516;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584282 << I'm seeing that this "lowered into pederasty" thing is as endemic to the russian sphere as elliotism is to the states.
1584765;1481943516;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 18:03 BingoBoingo: trinque is Texan where confused is a synonym for sucking cocks. It's a cultural soft spot.
1584766;1481943526;trinque;phf, where I got offboard with you was http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584235
1584767;1481943526;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 17:49 phf: oh, shit, we've got a reddit consensus over here
1584768;1481943535;trinque;I think I've long demonstrated that I don't cling to a disproved belief.
1584769;1481943547;mircea_popescu;i didn;'t think that was about you.
1584770;1481943565;asciilifeform;i reread the log twice and still at a loss re wtf that was about
1584771;1481943593;mircea_popescu;gents gotta remember though, teh r word's a fightin' word.
1584772;1481943639;mircea_popescu;anyway, i thought he was ribbing Framedragger because how dares he agree or something.
1584773;1481943657;trinque;it's on the record. I don't need to make more hay of it.
1584774;1481943664;phf;and yet you do
1584775;1481943683;mircea_popescu;lol this sounds like the beginning of a beautiful.
1584776;1481943700;trinque;I was going to leave it there. Did you have more nubbins 4th wall breaking in you yet?
1584777;1481943719;trinque;the appeal to the crowd there, and yet I'm the collectivist.
1584778;1481943741;asciilifeform;...we have a crowd??
1584779;1481943897;phf;trinque: you lost your shit, cause i ruffled your feathers a bit, ~uncharacteristically~ you were ranting, in the popular style of the channel, but without any of the substance. you unrated me literally for busting your balls, the only reason is we're still on speaking terms is because you helped me out with the gpg key issue
1584780;1481944069;phf;this is the last thing i'm going to say on the matter, if anybody ~else~ has personal issues with me over what transpired i will address those only
1584781;1481944089;mircea_popescu;honestly i kinda enjoyed the day.
1584782;1481944156;mircea_popescu;of all the times in my life i had to explain to a sober judge in the morning wtf the fight was about, this'd have easily been my preferred choice
1584783;1481944186;*;trinque had a fine day; would've been better with drinks.
1584784;1481944214;mircea_popescu;"there was some disagreement over the true nature of nul lsets, and things went from there". way the fuck better than anything life served me up with.
1584785;1481944240;mircea_popescu;trinque i thought your car was on the fritz
1584786;1481944284;trinque;such is the burden of a volkswagen owner.
1584787;1481947601;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/56D56D14AB5ED377D1CBEE0B27EB0D059473CA4C46DF9D4847CD06E024EE3967 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1588...0267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.71.195.193 (ssh-rsa key from 80.71.195.193 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (getweb01.epte.fi. FI)
1584788;1481949253;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584786 <> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2wilTC5Cs0
1584789;1481949253;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 03:11 trinque: such is the burden of a volkswagen owner.
1584790;1481949811;trinque;if it ran at all I'd offroad the thing until it blew up.
1584791;1481949882;shinohai;I imagine trinque more the baja buggy type?
1584792;1481950083;trinque;upside of texas beaches being shitty is nobody cares if you get drunk and do donuts on them.
1584793;1481950141;trinque;would've been pretty entertaining to be the only station wagon among the trucks
1584794;1481950854;*;mod6 is finally caught up on megal0g
1584795;1481952435;BingoBoingo;trinque: When did I get the honor of becoming one of the Russians?
1584796;1481952563;trinque;only whoever said nothing today said this.
1584797;1481952583;BingoBoingo;Maybe I misread your pederasty comment?
1584798;1481953053;trinque;was giving you the reason for it. justification for "confused" follows the claim, in any "polite company".
1584799;1481953102;*;BingoBoingo would say he's confused but doesn't want to invite a dick into his mouth.
1584800;1481953544;trinque;the pederasty comment is about the glee with which folks will erect a strawman, ("This is how it's defined." <-> "Why?") vs ("This is how it's defined?" <-> "No it's not.") to fuck, which has more to do with... primate brains, less to do with thinking.
1584801;1481953605;trinque;pecking order is unavoidable but not nearly as interesting as the actual subject there was.
1584802;1481953645;trinque;when the former supercedes the latter entirely, I'm out, retarded primates didn't contort their brains enough to think that day.
1584803;1481953952;trinque;and if this "skewering the thing that wasn't said, to the great entertainment of das man" was widespread among SU intellectuals, that'd be a fine reason for them to have gone into decline.
1584804;1481953991;trinque;to diminish nothing of the idiocy of those following right behind.
1584805;1481956439;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584330 << in these terms, statements regarding me (OP is a faggot) cannot be acted upon while retaining selfhood. statements about the world ~can~
1584806;1481956439;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 18:17 mircea_popescu: what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul.
1584807;1481957059;*;BingoBoingo prolly ought to reread log
1584808;1481979541;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, and this is truly lulzworthy : raiding party identified hot girl, set up a meet. at this meet it was established a) that she's from novosibirsk! and b) there was this dorky german fellow attached, who literally sat, by himself, at a table nearby while we had drinks and icecream and shit.
1584809;1481979585;mircea_popescu;two hours in, the girl being a sweet soul, asked if he might be invited over ? so sure, dude's been playing the dog long enough, let him be invited over.
1584810;1481979661;mircea_popescu;he is an engineer. he wants to know, inter alia, what do i do, and knows that "bitcoin isn't mined anymore". it becomes evident from conversation that she's living with him but isn't fucking him, and while the situation is perfectly acceptable to him, it's very tenuous for her.
1584811;1481979700;mircea_popescu;so we mock him a little (which he germans through) and part on good friends. two days later, turns out she moved on.
1584812;1481979721;mircea_popescu;we might have estranged a german engineer's mail order bride!
1584813;1481980440;shinohai;KEK
1584814;1481981090;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2A62DFD5B677FF66899A8E546B66BCD3A4FBBF6C5F5056474B70CDF3E20B4E39 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1136...1469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.188.20.35 (ssh-rsa key from 187.188.20.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-188-20-187-188-20-35.iusacell.net. MX DIF)
1584815;1481981122;mircea_popescu;tru story.
1584816;1481981133;mircea_popescu;now let's see if i manage to get myself cut off for flooding.
1584817;1481981137;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584804 << dawg, this in-general commentary style is very confusing to me. parser fails pluriously and compiler identifies the following problems which for your convenience have been packed separately : a) the whole "[lowered into] pederasty" concept is used improperly. given alf's incessant usage this is understandable, but mind that alf tends to very finely abuse terms at the very edge of m
1584818;1481981137;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 05:53 trinque: to diminish nothing of the idiocy of those following right behind.
1584819;1481981137;mircea_popescu;isuse but not beyond. he's a very poor source to learn new words through practice from for this reason. in any case, some strong statements on the topic'd be that a.1) it's originally a vor ie russian prison system concept ; a.2) there's nothing ever fun about it, nor mirthful ; a.3) roosters and feathers are deeply involved for some reason. b) "only whoever said nothing today said this." is self-contradictory on the face - d
1584820;1481981138;mircea_popescu;id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
1584821;1481981143;mircea_popescu;d by you. this one true largest gap in the theory of knowledge can not in practice ever be bridged, and must be allowed for. e) i don't understand which of the two examples given is a strawman nor how do the two examples given map to the conversation as it went. f) it seems to me very dubious altogether that there was a pecking order, as in, who's teh greatest lord consideration involved. on 2nd pass analysis (cuz originally
1584822;1481981150;mircea_popescu;this didn't seem worth the evaluation so i passed it) a "pyramid of science" pecking order may well be involved, in the sense that "oh, we learned null sets in kindergarten" and phf's english, while formally fine, does not actually serve him well enough to convey this difference i don't suspect. g) what's "das man" ? h) how did ph
1584823;1481981154;mircea_popescu;f get to be su intellectuals ? i'm not saying he is or isn't, it's just not clear. i) why do we think whatever intellectuals do or don't do has any impact on what eventually happens ? j) maybe russians just shed a skin, like reptiles ? their decline was kinda brief and they came out of it with fire under butt, apparently. certainly if you look at "which white man nation has a shot of being still around in 2116" ru doesn't bot
1584824;1481981159;mircea_popescu;tom the list, but in any case the admixture's by now explosive there's been so many steps.
1584825;1481981201;mircea_popescu;wowza check that out, it swallowed it. nice box!
1584826;1481981734;Framedragger;as wanna-be rebellious as i sometimes pretend to be, re. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584820 d), this is maybe clearest way of illustrating what fundamental attribution error (socpsy notion) is, and support it via phenomenological (pardon the tongue) means. i mean, fair enough
1584827;1481981734;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
1584828;1481981885;Framedragger;and in retrospect, my "/me agrees" was maybe childish, but it wasn't, i must point out, any appeal to kons3nsus. it was more like, "i agree with this point and if anyone has any counterpoints, i'd like to address them, too." something like that.
1584829;1481982170;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D12C3ED7C732BD895BEF4E5D92C4903DA44B4AA71EB79922DB5742F7212BE721 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2475...7527 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.159.23.211 (ssh-rsa key from 62.159.23.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.multi-print.com. DE)
1584830;1481982579;mircea_popescu;twas what i read it as at any rate.
1584831;1481982613;Framedragger;ah, that's good to hear
1584832;1481982711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1A25A440A6948DDC300186004267B582590844049706A14D5DC9E7248ABA2C2F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1657...1019 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '167.114.38.10 (ssh-rsa key from 167.114.38.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
1584833;1481982711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F64664EE08F52D797EE62EC96FACD4F0DDB48D4F18385AEEA2F32AA7A8915D53 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2511...8629 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '148.216.53.29 (ssh-rsa key from 148.216.53.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX MIC)
1584834;1481982711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ED49B566A8C02328331EDA9E3B81F96FDE827E44385F6D94603ECE681A89F452 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1136...1469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.189.78.24 (ssh-rsa key from 187.189.78.24 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-78-187-189-78-24.iusacell.net. MX DIF)
1584835;1481982711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2A62DFD5B677FF66899A8E546B66BCD3A4FBBF6C5F5056474B70CDF3E20B4E39 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1136...1469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.188.20.35 (ssh-rsa key from 187.188.20.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-188-20-187-188-20-35.iusacell.net. MX DIF)
1584836;1481982992;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: I got an opendime on the way, what should I do re: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542449
1584837;1481982992;a111;Logged on 2016-09-15 18:09 asciilifeform: 'There are a number of ways to verify the device; first, you can click on a link shown in the index.htm file present on the device. That link includes a signed message, that only an Opendime with access to the private key can generate.' << who wants to buy one of these things and see what the nonces look like.
1584838;1481983344;mircea_popescu;Framedragger prolly http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584334 better example.
1584839;1481983344;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 18:18 mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
1584840;1481983363;Framedragger;ah yeah, i missed that the first time as i had to run off, pity.
1584841;1481983411;mircea_popescu;this is irl example, too. owning slaves = loads of fun, like kittens ^ akaname or somesuch.
1584842;1481983713;shinohai;opendime http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542451
1584843;1481983713;a111;Logged on 2016-09-15 18:11 asciilifeform: gotta love the neverending attempt to make water non-wet.
1584844;1481984360;mircea_popescu;Framedragger that said, the whole field of "socpsy" is poppycock, entirely in the manner of "moscow psychology" - it exists to try and justify a, in mussolini's terms, "Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State;" ( http://trilema.com/2013/sex-in-the-news/#selection-105.0-105.64 ). they even admit their "bedrock" is this "fundamental attribution error". they don't however admit that the whole point of this
1584845;1481984360;mircea_popescu; pseudoscientific discipline is to push a individual-bad society-good political agenda.
1584846;1481984394;mircea_popescu;(moscow psychology is famous for discovering that the city of moscow had the greatest concentration of sufferers of sluggish schizophrenia in teh world!)
1584847;1481984524;mircea_popescu;(note, incidentally, how EXACTLY the us "liberal" discourse maps on 1920s chief fascist's discourse)
1584848;1481984526;Framedragger;haha! right, yeah. good to keep that in mind. (subconsciously, i think, that's why i abbreviated the term, it's pretty derp.) it's sad that some (actually) useful notions are held under its umbrella (such as FAE, even though, yes, we've probably seen the latter defined elsewhere in other ways, and it's something that self-aware people tend to be conscious about anyway.)
1584849;1481984532;Framedragger;heh.
1584850;1481984656;shinohai;lulz http://archive.is/x9ra7
1584851;1481984710;mircea_popescu;note the "7,894" prices everywhere. because they won't fucking admit it's 10 btc for the life of 'em.
1584852;1481984812;mircea_popescu;"The bulk of these projects are not provided in source code form and instead appear to be binary files, which further strengthens the hypothesis that these files were compromised from an operational staging post or actively obtained from a field operation. If they had been in source code format then this would suggest an insider leak is more likely, binary files are often used in operations over their source code counterpart.
1584853;1481984813;mircea_popescu;" << journaho doesn't know how to compile, therefore imagines source and binary are two separate things, and not in the private-public key relationship.
1584854;1481984819;mircea_popescu;sucks to be dumb i guess.
1584855;1481986573;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in monkeystan, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/SMyo5/?raw=true ( https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/press-release/file/917621/download )
1584856;1481986769;mircea_popescu;oh in other news, wikitardia apparently now blocking archive.is
1584857;1481986797;asciilifeform;mega-soorprise
1584858;1481986839;mircea_popescu;anyway, with thanks to Framedragger i contributed a little lulz to their pot : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error#Explanations
1584859;1481986870;asciilifeform;l0l!!
1584860;1481986881;Framedragger;"  removed a bunch of pseudoscientific poppycock" hahahahahah
1584861;1481986903;asciilifeform;how long it stayed up for ? 5min ?
1584862;1481986920;mircea_popescu;i'm sure it'll be up for a while
1584863;1481986936;mircea_popescu;wikipedia is under a lot of pressure, very thin hr on the ground
1584864;1481986945;mircea_popescu;strangely reminiscent of us presence in middle east really.
1584865;1481986967;Framedragger;i wasn't even aware that their ghetto currently allowed editing of english wiki articles by unregistered accts
1584866;1481987189;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584836 << iirc i described in agonizingly pedantic detail what 'to do'
1584867;1481987189;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 13:56 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I got an opendime on the way, what should I do re: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542449
1584868;1481987200;mircea_popescu;link ?
1584869;1481987204;asciilifeform;whythefuck didja buy it if nfi what to do, thestringpuller !
1584870;1481987215;mircea_popescu;gotta learn somehow eh!
1584871;1481987235;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542475 <<
1584872;1481987235;a111;Logged on 2016-09-15 18:40 asciilifeform: if i had time, i'd buy the thing and publicly rape it (differential power probe) but i haven't the time.
1584873;1481987243;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/SE1TF/?raw=true
1584874;1481987243;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1584875;1481987256;asciilifeform;though for starters you can just sign with it 10,000,001 times and probably derive the priv
1584876;1481987257;mircea_popescu;worx
1584877;1481987321;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584846 << usa thoroughly beat all of the old records, though iirc they call it some other thing now, see tlp.
1584878;1481987321;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 14:19 mircea_popescu: (moscow psychology is famous for discovering that the city of moscow had the greatest concentration of sufferers of sluggish schizophrenia in teh world!)
1584879;1481987340;mircea_popescu;and in other news the argentine cattlehead is the most incredible thing known to man. they literally have no indoor. whether it's 3am or 3pm, whether it's inside a hallway or out in a field somehwere, YOU WILL GET THE SAME BLAST!
1584880;1481987360;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha, the whole us shebang is very neatly su-inspired.
1584881;1481987385;mircea_popescu;^ no indoor ~voice~ i mean above.
1584882;1481987439;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584829 << http://www.multi-print.com >> alive; typography house of some sort
1584883;1481987439;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 13:42 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D12C3ED7C732BD895BEF4E5D92C4903DA44B4AA71EB79922DB5742F7212BE721 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2475...7527 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.159.23.211 (ssh-rsa key from 62.159.23.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.multi-print.com. DE)
1584884;1481987747;mircea_popescu;anyway, re the "world-you/i-you" dichotomy and the nonsensical "fundamental attribution error"/"socpsy" poppycock : the determinations of others as to you are made in the context of world-you, and correct or incorrect in THAT context ; your determinations as to you are made ~at your option~ in the context of i-you, and correct or incorrect in that context ; or in the context of world-you and correct or incorrect in THAT conte
1584885;1481987747;mircea_popescu;xt. there is no "you" that'd allow any sort of ambiguity on this topic whatsoever, and the pretense to the contrary is what makes "socpsy" a non-scientific endeavour on the level of kindergaterners playing with cubes - they're not civil engineers!
1584886;1481987793;asciilifeform;in quite other lulz, https://archive.is/Z1ZkJ , https://archive.is/YZkj2
1584887;1481987806;asciilifeform;'This IRC + GPG idea is growing legs. Lots of legs: RT @riking27: messages are max 512 bytes, it fits in a single RSA block it's perfect!'
1584888;1481987821;mircea_popescu;i am persuaded that it is correct to hold the ability to reconcile the i-you and the world-you correctly from both perspectives as the one test of maturity of the individual. it is however trivial to empirically prove this is not always possible (which is the deep meaning as well as the intellectual relevancy of tragedy - and which is why the greeks or shakespeare matter, and some nigglet woman does not).
1584889;1481987862;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is fundamental, like the ancient art of not shitting in pants
1584890;1481987863;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform heh. how does it feel to be liek, in the center of a world so blinded by its central greatness it dares not even raise its eyes ?
1584891;1481987872;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you'd be surprised.
1584892;1481987945;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: so you'd then perhaps say that, maybe, a transperson is doomed to not be able to reconcile i-you and world-you, and it is tragic to that person (but that *pretending* as if one has integrated the two in that instance is very stupid)?
1584893;1481987985;mircea_popescu;back to welt der kunst for a moment : there is this (idiotarian) notion that the role of art is somehow "emotional" and a piece of crap is art if it "evokes" in the viewer. bullshit. the only point of art is exactly as above : if it provides persuasive examples of the nature discussed.
1584894;1481987989;Framedragger;(hm, maybe you'd not allow for such a term (transperson) in the first place...)
1584895;1481988032;mircea_popescu;this, ironically, makes most of eg "sci-fi" pulp ; and some parts of contemporary (esp visual) arts quite on point.
1584896;1481988074;Framedragger;(for logz, an example of non-pulp scifi is, imho, "closer": http://eidolon.net/?story=Closer)
1584897;1481988106;asciilifeform;Framedragger: i recall that one !
1584898;1481988124;asciilifeform;d00d had a bunch of nifty pieces.
1584899;1481988136;Framedragger;(yeah, imo its central focal point *is* the whole reconciliation issue, from epistemology point of view)
1584900;1481988139;Framedragger;indeed...
1584901;1481988261;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584892 << i would say that pretending the integration "was already done", as if it were some sort of artefact like an oven rather than a process, like respiration ; or pretending that "someone else" is responsible for it being done (such as don't say word x in front of person y because o noes they're too frail to manage) is pure infantilism.
1584902;1481988261;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 15:19 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so you'd then perhaps say that, maybe, a transperson is doomed to not be able to reconcile i-you and world-you, and it is tragic to that person (but that *pretending* as if one has integrated the two in that instance is very stupid)?
1584903;1481988294;mircea_popescu;a transperson is no more or less doomed than any other person ; because, again, the gap is fundamental and can not be bridged.
1584904;1481988313;mircea_popescu;just, since the transperson is more specified than the any other person, there is also a more accessible route to their doom
1584905;1481988328;mircea_popescu;much like if you know it's king oedip, you kinda know ~how~ his integration will fail.
1584906;1481988339;mircea_popescu;but this aside, the only reason you're "better" ie different is that you don't know.
1584907;1481988341;mircea_popescu;not that you won't die.
1584908;1481988376;mircea_popescu;(yes, fear of death, in the infantile form thereof is the deep driver behind the pretense of integration "not being a problem", not laziness or anything else.)
1584909;1481988408;mircea_popescu;the ustards are a selection of people uniquely and colossal-y afraid of dying, which explains most of the psychopathology.
1584910;1481988483;Framedragger;right!
1584911;1481988495;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584886 << just fyi this is irony (this is that maciej dude)
1584912;1481988495;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 15:16 asciilifeform: in quite other lulz, https://archive.is/Z1ZkJ , https://archive.is/YZkj2
1584913;1481988530;asciilifeform;who was that..?
1584914;1481988553;Framedragger;!#s idlewords
1584915;1481988553;a111;16 results for "idlewords", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=idlewords
1584916;1481988587;Framedragger;(heathen lack of WoT use is indeed frowned-upon and confusing)
1584917;1481989467;mircea_popescu;and finally re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584334 : this isn't an "error" - there is perfectly good reason for the bias (bias is not automatically erroneous!) to flow this way : the event ~happened in the world~. when the event happens in the head, girl a sees girl b feel like a slut, decides girl b is drunk ; girl a sees girl a feel like a slut, decides she is a slut.
1584918;1481989467;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 18:18 mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
1584919;1481989502;mircea_popescu;ie, in world-context the bias is for object ; and in i-context the bias is for subject.
1584920;1481989588;mircea_popescu;which is why people never evaluate correctly neither whether they'll drop the vase too ; nor whether the suicidal depressive will actually kill themselves.
1584921;1481990993;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1A25A440A6948DDC300186004267B582590844049706A14D5DC9E7248ABA2C2F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1548...1259 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '167.114.38.10 (ssh-rsa key from 167.114.38.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
1584922;1481990993;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F64664EE08F52D797EE62EC96FACD4F0DDB48D4F18385AEEA2F32AA7A8915D53 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1429...7773 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '148.216.53.29 (ssh-rsa key from 148.216.53.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX MIC)
1584923;1481991503;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D12C3ED7C732BD895BEF4E5D92C4903DA44B4AA71EB79922DB5742F7212BE721 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1491...2813 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.159.23.211 (ssh-rsa key from 62.159.23.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.multi-print.com. DE)
1584924;1481991503;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/91C8954AC2724E6363A8849A8FCDF60F96635C9BBF971C0FDDEDB55D824B8524 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1549...6423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '171.96.236.55 (ssh-rsa key from 171.96.236.55 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ppp-171-96-236-55.revip8.asianet.co.th. TH)
1584925;1481993723;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/the-island-of-dr-moreau/ << Trilema - The Island of Dr. Moreau
1584926;1481994259;mircea_popescu;in other news, btcbase logs 889 deedbot-reported recent phuctorings since april 30th, or about
1584927;1481994268;mircea_popescu;!~calc 889/231
1584928;1481994269;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 889/231 = 3.8484848484848486
1584929;1481994272;mircea_popescu;on average.
1584930;1481994291;asciilifeform;recall, it missed a good chunk of the debian burst
1584931;1481994313;mircea_popescu;except there were 9 today, so it's certainly increasing velocity
1584932;1481994324;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there is that yeh
1584933;1481994396;mircea_popescu;there's 247 unreported in the above figures (going by phuctor's stats page listing 1136 broken moduli atm)
1584934;1481994458;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally, this sadmods page with its 640k entries is insanity. gotta ship that data in a better format than webpage.
1584935;1481994480;asciilifeform;it's greppable!1111
1584936;1481994485;asciilifeform;if i paginate it -- won't be
1584937;1481994508;mircea_popescu;yes, it still will be, except you gotta put a for loop in the bash!
1584938;1481994516;mircea_popescu;atm it's not fucking usable, it's been trying to load for 2 minutes.
1584939;1481994550;asciilifeform;it'll be ~less~ usable unless i can figure out how to make the db work in parallel
1584940;1481994555;mircea_popescu;aand 504
1584941;1481994561;asciilifeform;right now the thing it hangs on is ~getting to the db at all, ever~
1584942;1481994570;asciilifeform;because it gets 1000+ writes/sec
1584943;1481994594;mircea_popescu;yeh sadmods can't be accessed. maybe just take the loi
1584944;1481994602;mircea_popescu;the link* off altogether
1584945;1481994609;asciilifeform;phuctor-3 (the next rev, naturally) will be static html
1584946;1481994612;asciilifeform;generated nightly.
1584947;1481994642;mircea_popescu;sensible, but even if it were - sadmods, a page worth 640mb may well not be worth doing as such. really i gotta dld a jiggabit of data every time ?
1584948;1481994642;asciilifeform;atm i dun see another way of making the thing behave like a reasonable-people www.
1584949;1481994648;mircea_popescu;paginate it and let me download as many pages as i wish
1584950;1481994672;asciilifeform;aite, it'll be paginated.
1584951;1481994689;mircea_popescu;worx.
1584952;1481994706;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, and i have to dig up a week-old thread, but this has to be done, i gotta deebot FUCKGOATS
1584953;1481994714;asciilifeform;not even the pictures, just the genesis
1584954;1481994717;asciilifeform;how do i do this.
1584955;1481994729;asciilifeform;*deedbot
1584956;1481994785;mod6;are you just trying to clearsign one vpatch then?
1584957;1481994796;asciilifeform;mod6: v doesn't deal in clearsigned anythings
1584958;1481994798;asciilifeform;you know that.
1584959;1481994806;mod6;i do know that. :]
1584960;1481994822;mod6;then this is a question for trinque; he'll know if deedbot can or can't deal with .sig files.
1584961;1481994856;asciilifeform;and yes, i'm aware that i can take whatever and package it up in a uuencoded+clearsigned turd. but this is insanity.
1584962;1481994939;mod6;it's your thing, you can do it however you see fit.
1584963;1481994961;asciilifeform;i don't see any of the available options as 'fit' !!
1584964;1481994971;mod6;then do nothing, until there is a solution.
1584965;1481994983;asciilifeform;i gotta do this BEFORE MOTHERFUCKING CRATE SHIPS
1584966;1481994985;asciilifeform;understand??
1584967;1481994999;mod6;'nothing' is always an option.
1584968;1481995009;asciilifeform;say mr.crate opens his crate and finds rng that spew out marsaglia instead of trng bits.
1584969;1481995016;asciilifeform;he asks 'what gives'
1584970;1481995021;asciilifeform;i point TO DEEDBOT
1584971;1481995086;mod6;what do you propose as the idea solution here?
1584972;1481995091;mod6;*ideal
1584973;1481995093;asciilifeform;---- except that i can't because apparently we have 0 working infrastructure for actually releasing v code
1584974;1481995107;asciilifeform;solution is that deedbot eats ordinary standalone gpg sigs.
1584975;1481995121;asciilifeform;( trinque ? how difficult this would be ? )
1584976;1481995273;asciilifeform;to make clear what i need here, 1) i gotta put a source link on nosuchlabs.com 2) it must be a HUMAN READABLE + VALID vgenesis 3) it should be a link to deedbot.
1584977;1481995494;deedbot;http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-drunken-explorer/ << Daniel P. Barron - The drunken explorer
1584978;1481995548;Framedragger;asciilifeform: *for the time being*, can you not hash the package, and deedbot clearsigned hash of package?
1584979;1481995567;Framedragger;sure, this isn't a logistical solution, but you'll be able to point to a timestamped-and-signed checksum.
1584980;1481995568;mod6;<+asciilifeform> ---- except that i can't because apparently we have 0 working infrastructure for actually releasing v code << i disagree with this.  what we have, and trb isn't the only one who's done this, is; you make a mirror, and then v.pl deals with this.  you grab all the vpatches you want, and the sigs from people you trust, and you place them in v, then you do what you wanna do.
1584981;1481995599;asciilifeform;Framedragger: i can, and ~nobody will verify.
1584982;1481995601;asciilifeform;this is no good.
1584983;1481995609;Framedragger;isn't that their problem, not yours?
1584984;1481995632;Framedragger;what use are they who do not verify anyway? do you expect those who do not verify to verify v sigs?
1584985;1481995657;asciilifeform;this isn't the only problem
1584986;1481995662;asciilifeform;how do i even phrase this
1584987;1481995695;asciilifeform;i need to nail down the existence of the current cpld config prior to crate leaving.
1584988;1481995714;Framedragger;(i am aware of vdiff barfing over certain character sequences. but maybe it'd be enough to timestamp-and-sign hash for now? to be able to *prove* things.)
1584989;1481995715;asciilifeform;but to nail it down in such a way that it is immediately obvious to all visitors to my www.
1584990;1481995736;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what's the problem with signed tarball again ?
1584991;1481995746;asciilifeform;~obvious~, rather than pryable-apart-if-opposed
1584992;1481995749;asciilifeform;does that make sense ?
1584993;1481995754;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tarballs ain't vgenesis
1584994;1481995768;mircea_popescu;what exact problem are you trying to solve here ?
1584995;1481995781;asciilifeform;i did not succeed in describing it above..?
1584996;1481995798;mircea_popescu;not for the part where you don't like the solution.
1584997;1481995813;mircea_popescu;you point to deedbot which contains signed tarball. what's the problem ?
1584998;1481995828;asciilifeform;v should abolish the idiocy of 'signed tarballs'
1584999;1481995833;*;Framedragger not sure why vgenesis must be used here, even though in the future that's the correct ideological pathway, sure. but i'm possibly underinformed and out of my element
1585000;1481995844;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform which brings us back to "what problem are you trying to solve"
1585001;1481995847;asciilifeform;it's a motherfucking vgenesis, it's human-readable, AND signed, AND unmutilated, the way it stands
1585002;1481995856;asciilifeform;and that's what i want up on the www.
1585003;1481995859;asciilifeform;and not tarball.
1585004;1481995862;mircea_popescu;if you've internally decided that you won't ship the items until "v demolishes the idiocy of tarballs" we have a problem.
1585005;1481995880;mod6;<+asciilifeform> v should abolish the idiocy of 'signed tarballs' << it doesn't have to. so far, we don't even have anything of the kind.  just vpatches + sigs.  'tis all.
1585006;1481995881;mircea_popescu;link me to this item ?
1585007;1481995892;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm about to upload, gimme a few min.
1585008;1481995896;mircea_popescu;alright.
1585009;1481995916;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584981 << again, you however expect the nice-readable-plaintext v'd stuff to *be* verified, though?
1585010;1481995916;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 17:26 asciilifeform: Framedragger: i can, and ~nobody will verify.
1585011;1481995974;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542450 << this is the only procedure you gave from my grep of the logs...
1585012;1481995974;a111;Logged on 2016-09-15 18:10 asciilifeform: 'Can I re-seal after breaking the center?  No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor.' << which i can't remove and replace with identical-looking one, containing same procedure, exactly why...?
1585013;1481995998;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: plz to read today's log
1585014;1481996032;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller the two evident avenues would be a) power differential analysis (ie, see how much electricity it eats, and parasite waveforms it induces). this is amply discussed on web re subverting gpg (eventually they got it to work with mere microphone, but same principle)
1585015;1481996034;Framedragger;(but i think i got it why you don't want binary tarball - it'd sure be nice to be able to host a plaintext package, with v sigs etc right there. hm. but then why deedbot the *whole* thing - why not deedbot only hashes of tarball version of webthing. make webthing available to view, but also for those who wish to verify via deedbot, too, make tarball available. not pretty, but worx for *now*.)
1585016;1481996056;mircea_popescu;and much cheaper b) make it encrypt the same thing a shitton of times and see if there's any key leakage.
1585017;1481996072;mircea_popescu;Framedragger you're very loud and not very helpful.
1585018;1481996077;Framedragger;sorry.
1585019;1481996137;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller neither of these are "easy" in the sense of windows. you'll have to do research and work the elbow grease to see  results.
1585020;1481996180;phf;mod6: we have the 3rd party signed tarballs, that we can't convert to v because of the binary problem. i think asciilifeform doesn't want to fallback to doing the same with own releases. wants to solve binary problem, or find some alternative solution. there's also been a lot of sentiment here against using sha/sig combination. "sign the thing itself" etc.
1585021;1481996212;mircea_popescu;the part where "please don't make me turn ascii into tarballs" is sensible, just, lets see what he actually is talking about.
1585022;1481996293;mod6;phf: oh i get it.  i lead by example with trb on this.  there is no good solution here.  we do not want blobs in V, and somewhere between a-z you end up with a blob that must get signed along with the vpatches.
1585023;1481996317;mod6;there may be some better solution to this with deedbot.
1585024;1481996386;mod6;it currently does not exist.
1585025;1481996403;mod6;now.  if you need to ship, this instant.  you either do what you can, as I did, or you do nothing until you can.
1585026;1481996605;mod6;if I were him, this is what I would do: take the schematic blob, encode it, clearsign it with a note at the top and a hash of its output value. submit to deedbot. next, edit the code somewhere or prefereably create a README.txt that points to that deed, create a new fuckgoats_genesis.vpatch and fuckgoats_genesis.vpatch.alf.sig on nosuchlabs.com, point to them with your www.
1585027;1481996623;mod6;done. ship it.
1585028;1481996652;mod6;i'll even run a mirror of it myself if anyone would like me to do so.
1585029;1481996718;mircea_popescu;mod6 hang on hang on, it's not even clear any actual blobs are involved this time around.
1585030;1481996875;asciilifeform;there are no;t.
1585031;1481996877;asciilifeform;not.
1585032;1481996887;asciilifeform;they will be included strictly as sha512 in the 'readme'.
1585033;1481996893;mod6;ok, cool! then just leave that part out.
1585034;1481996904;asciilifeform;(packaging this up for the final posting as we speak)
1585035;1481997084;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/shinohai-round-up-ready-shitcoin-crop-spoiler-the-crop-is-poo-corn/ << Qntra - Shinohai Round Up Ready Shitcoin Crop (Spoiler: The crop is poo corn)
1585036;1481997162;mircea_popescu;shinohai technically, a value is not a range.
1585037;1481997192;shinohai;this is true
1585038;1481997202;shinohai;plox to edit BingoBoingo
1585039;1481997217;BingoBoingo;ty fxd
1585040;1481997273;*;mircea_popescu always found the absence of the range datatype a kind-of lulzy thing in cs.
1585041;1481997285;asciilifeform;absence where
1585042;1481997289;asciilifeform;it is quite present in, e.g., ada.
1585043;1481997296;asciilifeform;(painfully so)
1585044;1481997331;mircea_popescu;in whatever ; javascript, facebook-php, ruby etc
1585045;1481997362;mircea_popescu;basically, in the "mindshare" of the "community"
1585046;1481997369;asciilifeform;the gap between the land of man and monkey -- is wide indeed
1585047;1481997382;mod6;I think it would be really cool to have something like !!deedbot <wotpaste_of_vpatch> <pgp_sig_of_wotpaste_vpatch>
1585048;1481997406;mircea_popescu;mod6 the only q is whether this isn't redundant ; and if it isn't, whether the utility doesn't belie bad design etc.
1585049;1481997417;mod6;It could place those in, just as it does regular deeds..  I'd say, if anyone is a good lisp dev (phf, whomever) to work with trinque to get this feature put into place.
1585050;1481997419;mircea_popescu;this needs a proper discussion, and the exact reforms/solutions aren't evident yet.
1585051;1481997456;mod6;mircea_popescu: yeah, makse sense.
1585052;1481997513;mod6;Once a solution is realized, I encourage you gentlemen to work together, putting previous disagreements aside.
1585053;1481997553;mircea_popescu;i'm not working with these vecchi rottinculo!
1585054;1481997640;mircea_popescu;(Deliziosa creatura, vuoi le mie mutande sporche, le mie vecchie mutande? Sai che ciò è di una raffinatezza impareggiabile? Vedi come sono sensibile al valore delle cose? Ascolta, angelo mio, io ho il più gran desiderio del mondo di contentarti in questo poiché sai che rispetto i gusti. I capricci, per barocchi che essi siano, li trovo tutti rispettabili. Sia perché non ne siamo arbitri, sia perché anche il più singola
1585055;1481997640;mircea_popescu;re e il più bizzarro — a ben analizzarlo — risale sempre a un principe de délicatesse... e sì, vecchi rottinculo: esprit de délicatesse!)
1585056;1481997664;mod6;lol
1585057;1481997747;asciilifeform;in other lulz, meanwhile, ...85.25.214.23 - - [17/Dec/2016:18:00:54 +0000] "HEAD /wallet.tar.xz HTTP/1.1" 301 0 "-" "Opera" "-"..."HEAD /.365coin/365coin.conf HTTP/1.1" .... [and a MB of variations on theme!] ...
1585058;1481997764;asciilifeform;10,000,001 ways to store... wallet
1585059;1481997775;asciilifeform;mindblowing.
1585060;1481997779;mircea_popescu;!~google "365con.conf"
1585061;1481997780;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Office 365 CON : The leading Online Conference for Office 365: <http://www.o365conference.com/>; Office 365 CON 2016 - Infusionsoft: <https://qlm.infusionsoft.com/app/page/ms-office-con-365-2016-tg-web-1>; Office 365 CON 2016 Keynote Sponsor - Infusionsoft: <https://qlm.infusionsoft.com/app/page/ms-office-con-365-2016-tg-keynote>
1585062;1481997787;mircea_popescu;hm
1585063;1481997790;asciilifeform;didja know we had wallet in there, mircea_popescu ?? because apparently we are monkeys ?
1585064;1481997838;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i imagine it's a global "search all accessible webservers connected to bitcoin".
1585065;1481997851;mircea_popescu;the dubious part is how exactly it'd pay, the wallet encryption is strong as far as we know.
1585066;1481997879;mircea_popescu;then again, if password is  a1rPl4nE as per debian best practices...
1585067;1481997883;asciilifeform;encryptions involving pw-entered-by-monkey is trivially breakable
1585068;1481997889;mircea_popescu;yeah
1585069;1481997891;asciilifeform;just try all 10,001 of'em.
1585070;1481997996;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fwiw, intel has file on 365 coin . keccak (because "Earth friendly") etc.
1585071;1481998037;mircea_popescu;they even have an irc chan , it's me and a guy atm.
1585072;1481998072;asciilifeform;lel, sounds very 2013
1585073;1481998084;mircea_popescu;yeah it's not really worth money or anything.
1585074;1481998088;asciilifeform;this wasn't funkenstein's thing was it.
1585075;1481998103;mircea_popescu;nah that was something with wood or dwarves or such
1585076;1481998122;BingoBoingo;Woodcoin, blocks added to chain by chopping
1585077;1481998141;asciilifeform;ah hm.
1585078;1481998146;asciilifeform;unrelated vintage lel, https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/06/cnn-apocalypse-video-nearer-my-god-to-thee
1585079;1481998149;BingoBoingo;WHich is wrong, should be glueing, screwing, doweling, or mortise and tenon
1585080;1481998276;BingoBoingo;Chopping Splits wood, joinery joins wood!
1585081;1481998359;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform did i miss the v-item link or ?
1585082;1481998558;phf;i think woodcoin is best altcoin. everyone else is going for the whole cyberpunk fastcompany vibe, while these guys are earnestly doing their own thing. it's like an elven technology department, established by young visionaries despite the disapproval of the elders, their servers all run on thermal generators somewhere in the cascadians, etc.
1585083;1481998622;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not yet
1585084;1481998670;mircea_popescu;man... look here, you throw total shitfit, i repress poor Framedragger to make some space for the discussion, you seamlessly move into vintage lulz and log readings. wth is this.
1585085;1481998689;mircea_popescu;come to the argument with your argument prepared to be argued.
1585086;1481998703;Framedragger;(eh i *am* obnoxious a bit)
1585087;1481998714;mircea_popescu;no argument there :D
1585088;1481998757;shinohai;!~later tell pete_dushenski http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5cmOV/?raw=true
1585089;1481998757;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1585090;1481998985;asciilifeform;ok here goes:
1585091;1481999040;asciilifeform;1) http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fg-genesis.vpatch
1585092;1481999047;asciilifeform;2) http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fg-genesis.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig
1585093;1481999053;asciilifeform;3) http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fg.jed
1585094;1481999059;asciilifeform;4) http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fg.png
1585095;1481999062;asciilifeform;5) http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/trng_tw.png
1585096;1481999064;asciilifeform;fin.
1585097;1481999083;shinohai;!~bash 9
1585098;1481999083;jhvh1;Last 9 lines bashed and pending publication
1585099;1481999089;Framedragger;nice.
1585100;1481999098;mircea_popescu;this is actually a pretty sensible scheme.
1585101;1481999134;asciilifeform;also folx please note that this is NOT identical to the previously posted version (that, note, i never signed)
1585102;1481999141;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what is the matter with sending to deedbot the item #1 wrapped in a "This is a notarized version of the original root of the so and so project, prepared for this and that etc" ?
1585103;1481999143;asciilifeform;the reason why, will become apparent to readers.
1585104;1481999159;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that it cannot be =?='d without human hands
1585105;1481999164;asciilifeform;it is promisetronic step.
1585106;1481999199;asciilifeform;but since nobody seems to have any better idea, i'ma deedbot a manifest.
1585107;1481999199;mircea_popescu;but the point of deedbot is to contain signed matter intended for human hands ; it is why the signed matter intended for machine processing is a separate mechanism.
1585108;1481999202;shinohai;asciilifeform: is this the `blessed` method for use with fg at moment?
1585109;1481999223;mircea_popescu;no see, nevermind the practice. of major import here is the possibility that we've obtained a theoretical challenge through practice
1585110;1481999230;mircea_popescu;so let's get the theory settled first and then act.
1585111;1481999247;asciilifeform;shinohai: it is everything you theoretically need to make YOUR OWN FUCKGOATS
1585112;1481999262;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aite, let's..
1585113;1481999285;*;shinohai notes
1585114;1481999358;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585107 < does this pass ?
1585115;1481999358;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 18:26 mircea_popescu: but the point of deedbot is to contain signed matter intended for human hands ; it is why the signed matter intended for machine processing is a separate mechanism.
1585116;1481999609;mircea_popescu;(in any case the reason that the two haven't merged sooner was that in my head business (ie, dealings in between people) and code (ie, dealings in between machines) were fundamentally separated. but i'm very interested in whether this notion actually stands to scrutiny.)
1585117;1481999722;asciilifeform;!!deed http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/manifest.txt
1585118;1481999755;deedbot;accepted: 1
1585119;1481999762;mod6;http://dpaste.com/25AZT9N.txt
1585120;1481999830;mircea_popescu;neat.
1585121;1481999928;asciilifeform;(will update www page later today)
1585122;1482000042;asciilifeform;i recommend to everyone here to read fg.v
1585123;1482000052;asciilifeform;it's ~400 line
1585124;1482000113;mircea_popescu;now that's what i call a technology company.
1585125;1482000149;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cJs2H/?raw=true
1585126;1482000149;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1585127;1482000157;*;mircea_popescu wanders off to add danielpbarron eu patch and see what happens.
1585128;1482000170;phf;asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=fg
1585129;1482000175;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-10#1449699 << watched this, turned out to be pleb porn
1585130;1482000175;a111;Logged on 2016-04-10 13:15 adlai: ;;later tell mircea_popescu submission for trilema movie reviews: Inside Man
1585131;1482000184;asciilifeform;danke phf !!
1585132;1482000207;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis << very neat
1585133;1482000219;asciilifeform;^ folx who want to read, can read 'unofficial' here
1585134;1482000275;mircea_popescu;incidentally, is there such a thing as an "ai code commenter" ? specifically, rather than the hard problem of "human speech" or junk of that nature, is there any machine approach to turning compileable code into literate code (kuhn) ?
1585135;1482000280;mod6;To start a bit deeper of a discussion surrounding what we talked about with 'infrastructure' for V, if it's necessary or not, or whatever.  I kinda put some thoughts down; http://dpaste.com/2S08M67.txt
1585136;1482000298;mircea_popescu;mod6 you gotta get a blog. how am i gonna link a dpaste in 6 months ?
1585137;1482000301;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall the solrodar thread ?
1585138;1482000304;mircea_popescu;yes.
1585139;1482000345;mod6;I did that, as to not spam the channel here, and to try to think through what my entire thought might have been.  If there is any merit to my thoughts, I'll post it somewhere.
1585140;1482000362;*;mircea_popescu will read in a moment.,
1585141;1482000371;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: so then. no such thing. it is ~impossible to machine anything useful out of code, if it were possible, it would be done by compiler and the ~language per se~ would include this intelligence.
1585142;1482000374;mod6;Something just to start the thought of what to do about all of this.  Maybe there is even some folding into a UCI with this, not sure.
1585143;1482000384;mod6;Or tb0t for that matter.
1585144;1482000405;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and yet bounds checking is possible.
1585145;1482000421;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: depends in what
1585146;1482000434;mircea_popescu;which is my point ; your negative is too strong.
1585147;1482000439;asciilifeform;at runtime -- only if the cpu is 'smart' , or if the compiler stuffs in the check every single time
1585148;1482000442;asciilifeform;(a la ada)
1585149;1482000455;asciilifeform;at compile-time -- only if the language is properly constrained
1585150;1482000457;asciilifeform;(a la haskell)
1585151;1482000726;mod6;Eh, I don't even think I like my own idea.
1585152;1482000748;mod6;Food for thought I guess. :/
1585153;1482000921;phf;asciilifeform: i'm sad your schematic is missing the annotation. how will we know in thousand years time that it was indeed penned by the blessed leibowitz
1585154;1482000938;asciilifeform;phf: eh what annotation
1585155;1482000949;asciilifeform;also if the entire thing isn't bloody obvious, then i have nfi even
1585156;1482000961;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think he means you didn't put your name on it
1585157;1482000966;phf;^
1585158;1482000992;phf;~it is also a joke~ i have no idea with you people any more
1585159;1482000995;asciilifeform;hey the schem hashes are in 1) the v genesis + 2) the signed manifest
1585160;1482001003;mircea_popescu;mod6 seems more like you want phf's bot to have an irc submission interface ?
1585161;1482001014;mircea_popescu;which i think he intends to do on his own once he's happy with the whole tower ?
1585162;1482001048;asciilifeform;phf: my sense of joke will come back when i'm done hand-testing the rng boards tonight and finally vacuum seal the last of'em
1585163;1482001068;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's something fundamentally visceral about the written page you're entirely inadherent to, as seen here and in the case of clearsigns etc. pass by reference is not the same as pass by value!
1585164;1482001083;mod6;yeah, that could probably be a decent feature there.  i do recall phf talking about it.
1585165;1482001090;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tru
1585166;1482001109;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta why i wanted the whole thing in the genesis.
1585167;1482001131;mircea_popescu;but in truth there's two kinds of kids in the kindergarten, those who go around writing their name on all the cubes and those who go around pointing at all the things and saying "mine!"
1585168;1482001150;asciilifeform;btw when i see symptoms that anybody has read fg.v i will tell an exciting story.
1585169;1482001171;asciilifeform;about how i was a hair's breadth from concluding that we'd have to scrap the first set of boards
1585170;1482001206;asciilifeform;because initially i could not get the yoke test to actually work as advertised.
1585171;1482001241;asciilifeform;turns out, the clock crystals diverse after THREE MILLISECONDS, not 'hours'
1585172;1482001249;asciilifeform;*diverge
1585173;1482001250;mircea_popescu;o.O
1585174;1482001283;asciilifeform;they dun make'em like they usedto.
1585175;1482001313;mircea_popescu;dude wtf new process is this, they just bake 5mn and then filter out the working resonators out of a collodial suspension ?
1585176;1482001319;asciilifeform;apparently.
1585177;1482001324;asciilifeform;hey gotta cheapen so IPAD!!111!!1
1585178;1482001338;mircea_popescu;remarkable.
1585179;1482001349;mircea_popescu;this however is actually not to our detriment.
1585180;1482001355;asciilifeform;but after week+ of worst headache in my living memory, i discovered a finesse.
1585181;1482001363;mircea_popescu;"you mean the rng tool can't even keep fucking time ?" "aha"
1585182;1482001374;asciilifeform;see line 324 of fg.v.
1585183;1482001386;asciilifeform;FUCKGOATS can now... fuck.
1585184;1482001404;mircea_popescu;ah shares clock
1585185;1482001408;asciilifeform;i turned the 'reset' pin into a fuck-cloaca
1585186;1482001412;mircea_popescu;lol
1585187;1482001441;mircea_popescu;nice.
1585188;1482001484;mod6;heh, 'sad_dog'
1585189;1482001505;shinohai;💩
1585190;1482001532;asciilifeform;btw in case there are folx who are not familiar with logic layout, this is not a comp proggy in the usual sense, it compiles to gate netlist
1585191;1482001553;asciilifeform;(all of the 'always' blocks execute simultaneously, if 'execute' is even the word)
1585192;1482001613;phf;welcome to dataflow country
1585193;1482001614;asciilifeform;the thing sits down, in the end, using 71 out of the 72 macrocells in xc9572xl.
1585194;1482001967;asciilifeform;shinohai: that hieroglyph doesn't display here...
1585195;1482002005;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/fuckgoats-schematics-released-as-devices-ship/ << Qntra - FUCKGOATS Schematics Released As Devices Ship
1585196;1482002032;asciilifeform;lol
1585197;1482002037;phf;shinohai: your log link is broken
1585198;1482002046;asciilifeform;indeed
1585199;1482002054;shinohai;:/
1585200;1482002066;asciilifeform;and it isn't just 'the vpatches are available'
1585201;1482002075;asciilifeform;note that only 1 of the items in the manifest (the first) is vpatch
1585202;1482002097;Framedragger;asciilifeform: for my education, so the way to make yoke test work is that the 'master' part outputs its clock via the reset pin? (this is prolly what mircea_popescu meant but it's new territory for me).
1585203;1482002098;shinohai;Can't have one without rest
1585204;1482002100;*;Framedragger preemptively thanks for education
1585205;1482002126;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-443869.txt
1585206;1482002146;asciilifeform;Framedragger: correct, and the analogue rngs have to be sampled through a latch clocked by same clock
1585207;1482002165;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584977 << in other news, check out the danielpbarron code narrative style!
1585208;1482002165;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 17:24 deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-drunken-explorer/ << Daniel P. Barron - The drunken explorer
1585209;1482002168;mircea_popescu;Framedragger aha.
1585210;1482002173;Framedragger;i see, very elegant!
1585211;1482002185;asciilifeform;Framedragger: short version of the story goes like this. our analogue rng is an analogue device, and is not synched with anything! so it occasionally violates the hold time constraint of any digital circuit it happens to be plugged into
1585212;1482002198;BingoBoingo;log link fxd
1585213;1482002208;asciilifeform;the whole idea of 'digital circuit' is somewhat promisetronic
1585214;1482002211;asciilifeform;there is no such animal in nature.
1585215;1482002262;Framedragger;i see, hence the need to keep 'clock sync'
1585216;1482002311;mircea_popescu;now question for the mathematicians in attendance : obviously we know that if you want to "keep bot mining tethered to this point" the approach is to implement drunk walk. this however will result in a gradient intensity of steps, decreasing from the origin. now - how do we shape the intensity distribution so that eg the maximal intensity is in a circle around the origin, while maintaining the desirable properties of the drun
1585217;1482002311;mircea_popescu;k walk ?
1585218;1482002327;asciilifeform;this also lets the owner test the functionality of his FUCKGOATS cpld and clock crystal SEPARATELY
1585219;1482002334;asciilifeform;because diddled crystals -- are indeed possible
1585220;1482002338;asciilifeform;physically, at any rate
1585221;1482002342;mircea_popescu;"selected" i guess sure.
1585222;1482002373;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: make one 'leg' of the 'drunk' longer than the other.
1585223;1482002375;asciilifeform;as in real life.
1585224;1482002379;asciilifeform;(men walking in the desert)
1585225;1482002388;mircea_popescu;which one ?
1585226;1482002392;asciilifeform;either.
1585227;1482002394;asciilifeform;result: circle.
1585228;1482002408;mircea_popescu;hehe.
1585229;1482002415;asciilifeform;see? very simple
1585230;1482002417;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron sound interesting ?
1585231;1482002443;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform next i'm gonna specifically exclude beedogs when asking !
1585232;1482002454;asciilifeform;l0lk
1585233;1482002481;mircea_popescu;hehe. anyway. drunkwalk it's extremely beautiful/elegant solution to very serious class of problems, as exemplified in this minign thing. i'm having a ball with it.
1585234;1482002496;mircea_popescu;i suspect i'm not the only one either.
1585235;1482002512;asciilifeform;it is normally called 'hill climbing' in literature
1585236;1482002522;asciilifeform;'drunkard's walk' is when it is done wholly at-random
1585237;1482002543;mircea_popescu;no this actually is drunk walk.
1585238;1482002549;*;asciilifeform reads
1585239;1482002565;mircea_popescu;problem is "keep sample locations tethered to this origin"
1585240;1482002603;asciilifeform;does the 'walker' know his distance from the origin ?
1585241;1482002607;asciilifeform;(directly, that is)
1585242;1482002612;mircea_popescu;yes.
1585243;1482002636;asciilifeform;then can make each step 'cost' in proportion to the distance it puts between him and origin
1585244;1482002638;mircea_popescu;(well, could, in this implementation doesn't bother to though)
1585245;1482002652;mircea_popescu;could, yes
1585246;1482003030;mircea_popescu;(also recommended reading - mr dantzig's work. now that was one hell of a homework doer.)
1585247;1482003088;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584817 << could very well be that the habits of speech in RU and TX are so different as to cause severe friction. same effect happens between TX and just about anywhere in US, too. wasn't confused about what "lowered into pederasty" meant though.
1585248;1482003088;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584804 << dawg, this in-general commentary style is very confusing to me. parser fails pluriously and compiler identifies the following problems which for your convenience have been packed separately : a) the whole "[lowered into] pederasty" concept is used improperly. given alf's incessant usage this is understandable, but mind that alf tends to very finely abuse terms at the very edge of m
1585249;1482003107;asciilifeform;trinque: did i miss something ? who was lowered into pederasty ?
1585250;1482003116;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584820 << reasonable. can be a waste to miss the case where dog already wants to learn.
1585251;1482003116;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
1585252;1482003120;asciilifeform;i reread the 'mean girlz' thread ,mustbe 3 times now, and still have nfi
1585253;1482003144;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584822 << "das man" is heidegger's "the them", "people say you should wash your hands after taking a shit"
1585254;1482003144;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: this didn't seem worth the evaluation so i passed it) a "pyramid of science" pecking order may well be involved, in the sense that "oh, we learned null sets in kindergarten" and phf's english, while formally fine, does not actually serve him well enough to convey this difference i don't suspect. g) what's "das man" ? h) how did ph
1585255;1482003158;mircea_popescu;ah
1585256;1482003172;mircea_popescu;dasein, dasmein, ic.
1585257;1482003178;trinque;yar
1585258;1482003198;mircea_popescu;dasman, inexplicably, does not exist in literature.
1585259;1482003212;mircea_popescu;dasmann*
1585260;1482003269;*;trinque catching up, deeding detached sigs is not that hard
1585261;1482003312;Framedragger;(exists, i think, in "being and time"? but i've only read excerpts, longish ago)
1585262;1482003368;*;trinque has a seething hatred of the mind that holds the hive as the bedrock of reality, can cause a strong reaction.
1585263;1482003409;Framedragger;(in .lt it's translated as "they" which is prolly not very good)
1585264;1482003490;trinque;only insofar as "they cured cancer"
1585265;1482003495;trinque;as idiots say
1585266;1482003560;asciilifeform;btw in ru this construction does not exist, if you 'they' then you gotta point at ~who~, otherwise you cannot say 'they pissed in this lift', you must instead say 'this lift has been pissed in'
1585267;1482003595;trinque;yeah, this "they" is an unfeature
1585268;1482003728;asciilifeform;phf: what do the items, e.g., '(0 . 0)(1 . 437)', in your v-viewer, do ?
1585269;1482003903;phf;it's the equivalent of diff's @@ -0,0 +1,437 @@. i just dump whatever's being stored in patch's fields, without any special formatting
1585270;1482003913;asciilifeform;aah
1585271;1482003992;phf;i can switch it to familiar format, but i only vaguely remember what the numbers actually mean. something about where the chunk is, and how many lines were dropped. etc.
1585272;1482004050;asciilifeform;nono, this is better.
1585273;1482004063;asciilifeform;eventually we WILL shoot gnudiff in the head.
1585274;1482004066;asciilifeform;just -- not today.
1585275;1482004246;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yeah, it's there.
1585276;1482004503;mircea_popescu;"das man", that average animal of two goats and three rabbits. but still, two words etc.
1585277;1482005983;asciilifeform;btw, http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/1.jpg http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/2.jpg http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/3.jpg
1585278;1482005992;asciilifeform;(detailed)
1585279;1482006038;mod6;thanks, nice pics :]
1585280;1482006498;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585207 << hehe pretty nice, like a monk scribing down book patch. btw danielpbarron, your Pi constant has a typo: you have 3.1415926545, should be 3.1415926535 (don't ask, i like memorizing useless stuff)
1585281;1482006498;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 19:16 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584977 << in other news, check out the danielpbarron code narrative style!
1585282;1482006573;Framedragger;actually, that last "5" should be a 6 because the digit that follows is a 9
1585283;1482006738;asciilifeform;btw folx may be interested to learn that the LM393 op-amp IS available from old soviet stock
1585284;1482006772;Framedragger;danielpbarron: and since you have three occurrences of it in 3.1415926545 may as well make it into an actual constant var maybe? /trivial-grammer-nazi-notes
1585285;1482006787;Framedragger;of it in http://danielpbarron.com/drunk.txt , i meant
1585286;1482006842;phf;or grab M_PI from math.h include
1585287;1482006854;Framedragger;but that would be boring
1585288;1482006948;phf;yeah, knuth's literate programming style prefers own defines to things like that, when a define is a property of code, rather than artifact of environment
1585289;1482007049;asciilifeform;re: analogue rng, let's say you have a rat in a cage, want to use him for rng. you give him a toggle to press, connect it between 'out' and 'ground', with a pull-up to 'power' (10Kohm or more).
1585290;1482007057;asciilifeform;see schematic for why this works.
1585291;1482007101;asciilifeform;very easy to make a substitute for the current analogue board.
1585292;1482007797;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/the-wail-of-our-democracy-a-holiday-roundup-xtend-special-edition-tmr/ << Qntra - The Wail of "Our Democracy"! A Holiday Roundup Xtend Special Edition (TM)(R)
1585293;1482010654;danielpbarron;ty Framedragger, fxd
1585294;1482010674;Framedragger;np!
1585295;1482010687;danielpbarron;that was from memory so apparently i memorized it wrong
1585296;1482010755;Framedragger;(just to be clear, there were two digits wrong (3.14159265_3_5), and the last one (it should go up by one due to proceeding digit). as phf said, math.h has that constant defined, but eh:)
1585297;1482013730;asciilifeform;https://shadowproof.com/2016/12/17/prison-barrett-brown-recommits-agitating-existing-order/ << in other lulz
1585298;1482013914;asciilifeform;'“The bottom line is I do owe over $800,000 to Stratfor, Combined Systems, and the nonexistent law firm of Puckett and Faraj...'
1585299;1482014814;danielpbarron;asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
1585300;1482015172;Framedragger;in math terms, probably that when selecting new angle angle, there is a statistical bias towards one side from the current angle? so that if it were a person, one of the legs would be shorter, and the person would be inclined towards one side when walking somewhere.
1585301;1482015364;Framedragger;(if you then draw path of person with enough datapoints (sufficient amount of choose-new-angle events), you'd get an arc/circle.)
1585302;1482015873;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585282 << hehe nice catch
1585303;1482015873;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 20:29 Framedragger: actually, that last "5" should be a 6 because the digit that follows is a 9
1585304;1482015915;mircea_popescu;course the error here is enough to drift the miner one full step in 1bn explore attempts, which is far outside what anyone ever managed to do in one run.
1585305;1482016095;Framedragger;maybe one day eulora will test the limits of common software when the exploration or quality determination during crafting or whatever requires infinite precision real numbers :p
1585306;1482016120;Framedragger;(which is doable and there are libraries for it, it's just slow of course)
1585307;1482016127;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585289 << yeah i was thinking mammal rng is prolly not a bad idea
1585308;1482016127;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 20:37 asciilifeform: re: analogue rng, let's say you have a rat in a cage, want to use him for rng. you give him a toggle to press, connect it between 'out' and 'ground', with a pull-up to 'power' (10Kohm or more).
1585309;1482016155;mircea_popescu;Framedragger it already tests the limits of common understanding, with good stuff like pricing, industry models, etc.
1585310;1482016275;mircea_popescu;incidentally asciilifeform : actual usecase for FUCKGOATS in eulroa play : because the current mining software uses random to position the miner, the quality of the rng generator decides how likely you actually step outside of the coords you are. ie, if your rng is biased, you're more likely to go outside.
1585311;1482016275;Framedragger;you know, sometimes i'm tempted to write up some kind of graphics-less (otherwise it's not feasible) civ-style simulator with proper economics, including contracts, liquidity etc etc. maybe eulora is the place to explore all that hm :)
1585312;1482016280;mircea_popescu;so it's also a passive bias measurer lol.
1585313;1482016296;mircea_popescu;Framedragger certainly going towards player-run towns etc.
1585314;1482016311;Framedragger;awesome.
1585315;1482016349;mircea_popescu;and yes, alt-client for emacs etc has long been desired. if you make it happen there's eulora riches for you.
1585316;1482016957;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585299 << if you set a ratio, and then make steps of different lengths by that ratio, your guy will not move around an origin, but around a circle that stands in same ratio with the outer "bound" circle.
1585317;1482016957;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 22:46 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
1585318;1482017000;mircea_popescu;(this is not currently feasible in eulora ; but you could have a fixed ratio by togling walk/run each step)
1585319;1482017600;mircea_popescu;Framedragger ^
1585320;1482017606;mircea_popescu;it doth test things doesn't it :D
1585321;1482017854;Framedragger;slippery slope into simulating anatomy! (is this bad? mno) :D
1585322;1482018049;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's kinda lulzy the barrett dude never showed up, seeing how we're actually doing all he aimed to do a lot better w/o really trying. but hey, such is the power of the inept.
1585323;1482018159;danielpbarron;no, run walk wouldn't do it. have to get a random number from 0 to pi and then randomly add pi to it based on a given chance
1585324;1482018171;mircea_popescu;wait what ?
1585325;1482018223;danielpbarron;the random from 0 to pi picks which angle to use within a certain half of the circle (of possible angles), and adding pi to it would put it in the other half
1585326;1482018233;mircea_popescu;nevermind the angle, this is about the steps.
1585327;1482018263;danielpbarron;i don't see how moving forward more or less after having turned a random angle would change the overall pattern
1585328;1482018291;mircea_popescu;hm.
1585329;1482018307;danielpbarron;Framedragger suggested that the character prefer to move left over right (or vice versa)
1585330;1482018320;mircea_popescu;yes but that's nonsense.
1585331;1482018324;danielpbarron;basically, prefer to move < pi rather than > pi
1585332;1482018342;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron maybe try simulating it ?
1585333;1482018372;danielpbarron;what should be the preference percent?
1585334;1482018382;mircea_popescu;try 2:1 ratio say
1585335;1482018386;danielpbarron;(another variable !!)
1585336;1482018407;mircea_popescu;yeah there is that, in theory. in practice, you can't implement it anyway, walk/run toggle is all you got.
1585337;1482018433;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585307 << it's a pretty bad idea under most circumstances.
1585338;1482018433;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 23:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585289 << yeah i was thinking mammal rng is prolly not a bad idea
1585339;1482018435;danielpbarron;could add another number to the already long /bot explore  command
1585340;1482018437;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: don't think that's nonsense - it's simply introducing a bias into choosing "which direction - left or right - should i prefer", no? or do you mean that it's not "realistic" and would look stupid? (maybe...)
1585341;1482018459;mircea_popescu;Framedragger if you introduce that bias you turn it into directional movement.
1585342;1482018476;mircea_popescu;which yes, can have its uses.
1585343;1482018483;mircea_popescu;just, wasn't the stated problem.
1585344;1482018496;Framedragger;ah, i was probably under the assumption that the movement was already directional, i.e. that the next-angle-choice was infrequent...
1585345;1482018498;Framedragger;aha.
1585346;1482018517;mircea_popescu;(fwiw, the "uninterceptable" missiles go like that)
1585347;1482018549;mircea_popescu;how frequent it is also dun figure into things :)
1585348;1482018560;Framedragger;i guess you're right :/
1585349;1482018561;Framedragger;anyway:
1585350;1482018563;Framedragger;!$ getarchive trilema.com
1585351;1482018569;mircea_popescu;o.O
1585352;1482018576;Framedragger;ah cmon scriba
1585353;1482018654;scriba;Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/egpVJ (this was archived by scriba: yes)
1585354;1482018662;mircea_popescu;ah
1585355;1482018670;mircea_popescu;nice!
1585356;1482018671;Framedragger;oh, i know the issue. damn. basically as part of its "have i archived this?" check it greps through log of "i archived this:"; the "dev" instance was crawling through a 500K logfile, the production one however has to cope with ~220M logfile. not feasible...
1585357;1482018695;mircea_popescu;well evidently feasible, he just did it.
1585358;1482018728;Framedragger;this was meant to be a reaction to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585136 - the dpaste link had been archived, this would help an operator to quickly retrieve that archived url.
1585359;1482018728;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 18:44 mircea_popescu: mod6 you gotta get a blog. how am i gonna link a dpaste in 6 months ?
1585360;1482018732;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585299 << i was referring to the actual, meatspace phenomenon where a man lacking a compass in a desert will walk in circles and die, being as no one's legs are of precisely identical length
1585361;1482018732;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 22:46 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
1585362;1482018737;Framedragger;yes, just horribly slow. will look into solutions
1585363;1482018763;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your kindergarten went out of business, what can i tell you.
1585364;1482018769;asciilifeform;evidently.
1585365;1482018798;asciilifeform;perhaps better example is how airplane with 'tricycle' landing gear is steered while 'taxiing'
1585366;1482018803;asciilifeform;(differential braking)
1585367;1482018965;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585310 << this is when i ask what a 'miner' is in eulora (is this explained somewhere ?)
1585368;1482018965;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 23:11 mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform : actual usecase for FUCKGOATS in eulroa play : because the current mining software uses random to position the miner, the quality of the rng generator decides how likely you actually step outside of the coords you are. ie, if your rng is biased, you're more likely to go outside.
1585369;1482019047;danielpbarron;mining generally means running foxybot which gathers (/explore) and optionally builds the resulting exploration markers and collects the resulting resources
1585370;1482019120;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585322 << the linked piece suggested that he was properly broken by the jailers, walks around terrified that even his usg-issued winblows comp is too much of a sin
1585371;1482019120;a111;Logged on 2016-12-17 23:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's kinda lulzy the barrett dude never showed up, seeing how we're actually doing all he aimed to do a lot better w/o really trying. but hey, such is the power of the inept.
1585372;1482019124;danielpbarron;the default method is 'line' which doesn't use rand(). but i've recently added a method which uses rand() to choose which direction to turn before moving to the next /explore attempt
1585373;1482019184;danielpbarron;the randomness is generated and used strictly on the user's end. the server doesn't care which direction you walk
1585374;1482019213;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform very much what it says on the tin, you go out with tools and materials, find natural resources, develop them and get minerals.
1585375;1482019639;Framedragger;!$ getarchive trilema.com
1585376;1482019639;scriba;Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/egpVJ (this was archived by scriba: yes)
1585377;1482019643;Framedragger;k fixd.
1585378;1482019672;Framedragger;(only worx for URLs that had already been archived on archive.is (doesn't matter if by scriba or not))
1585379;1482019777;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and at what bitrate does user consume entropy to steer his harvester ?
1585380;1482021521;asciilifeform;https://medium.com/@thegrugq/the-great-cyber-game-commentary-3-a1ae9a70e399 << lulzy, yet another Great World-Famous Seek000000rity Researcher with a ...keybase
1585381;1482021583;shinohai;That's one of the biggest `Signal+Tor makes you invincible!!!!!` guys too.
1585382;1482021686;asciilifeform;it's almost as if the 2014-15 tor busts neverhappened(tm)
1585383;1482024165;asciilifeform;in other vintage lelz, http://www.od43.com/Gestapo_file_Jew_Pollak_RB.html
1585384;1482024208;asciilifeform;'The Jewish Culture Committee wrote back to Adolf Martin advising him to accept the offer because according to their inside information, the Jew Artur Israel Pollak was scheduled to be deported soon to the Generalgouvernement (occupied Poland) and would probably end up in the Warsaw ghetto. Adolf Martin then agreed to the proposal hoping that, in the event that Pollak’s belongings were auctioned off he would finally get a lump sum an
1585385;1482024208;asciilifeform;hat way, auctioneer Knoch pocketed the money.'
1585386;1482025850;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-18#1585380 << grugq made a funny post at some point where he says that the notorious big's track "ten crack commandments" was all you needed to know about opsec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYb_8MM1tGQ which i thought was cool in that phrack gonzo way, but otherwise he's yet another infosec personality with all the trappings
1585387;1482025850;a111;Logged on 2016-12-18 00:38 asciilifeform: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/the-great-cyber-game-commentary-3-a1ae9a70e399 << lulzy, yet another Great World-Famous Seek000000rity Researcher with a ...keybase
1585388;1482025862;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB00D032684518BC104086034CC744E677AE07664721CCE57688F6783ACBBD03 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...4129 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.165.221.89 (ssh-rsa key from 46.165.221.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s101.deinprovider.de. DE)
1585389;1482026402;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/91C8954AC2724E6363A8849A8FCDF60F96635C9BBF971C0FDDEDB55D824B8524 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1579...0467 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '171.96.236.55 (ssh-rsa key from 171.96.236.55 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ppp-171-96-236-55.revip8.asianet.co.th. TH)
1585390;1482027747;phf;BingoBoingo porn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXmKHGqfFlc
1585391;1482028496;asciilifeform;phf: that was epic
1585392;1482029557;BingoBoingo;Hot!
1585393;1482032103;asciilifeform;http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/12/twitter-used-to-attack-journalist-kurt-eichenwald-triggering-seizure/ << in other lelz
1585394;1482034414;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/gmo-superweed-approved-for-commercial-sale-in-waning-days-of-hussein-bahamas-usda/ << Qntra - GMO Superweed Approved For Commercial Sale In Waning Days Of Hussein Bahamas USDA
1585395;1482034416;BingoBoingo;^ Povertree is back!
1585396;1482034677;*;BingoBoingo wonders if Monsanto has found a mesotrione resistance gene
1585397;1482035194;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB00D032684518BC104086034CC744E677AE07664721CCE57688F6783ACBBD03 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1175...0683 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.165.221.89 (ssh-rsa key from 46.165.221.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s101.deinprovider.de. DE)
1585398;1482035196;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-18#1585388 << lol, neighbour of dulap!
1585399;1482035196;a111;Logged on 2016-12-18 01:51 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB00D032684518BC104086034CC744E677AE07664721CCE57688F6783ACBBD03 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...4129 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.165.221.89 (ssh-rsa key from 46.165.221.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s101.deinprovider.de. DE)
1585400;1482035203;asciilifeform;and hey there it is again.
1585401;1482035460;BingoBoingo;Oh my, very near miss!
1585402;1482037733;BingoBoingo;More medicine https://i.sli.mg/GS49R1.jpg
1585403;1482037762;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/eeb8sr.jpg
1585404;1482037876;BingoBoingo;And unrelated https://i.sli.mg/oDlvrr.jpg
1585405;1482040862;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i would guess about a few bytes/minute
1585406;1482041612;mircea_popescu;actually no, lessee. a try's about seven seconds, and then if something's found that's about another 10. you don't always find something, but if skilled enough you mostly do, so say you gotta make 4 steps a minute. each step calls for a random radian value, which meaningfully is about 9 bits but nevertheless comes as a double which iirc is 64 bits. so you're doing 256 bits ie 4 bytes/minute.
1585407;1482041930;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1585408;1482041945;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 788.79, vol: 1448.43334967 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 779.9, vol: 2337.99159 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 790.26, vol: 3405.41226574 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 800.022447, vol: 996699.09300000 | Volume-weighted last average: 799.926260535
1585409;1482042291;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-18#1585403 << ook that's pretty good. (also kinda what argentina is, but with EVERYTHING.)
1585410;1482042291;a111;Logged on 2016-12-18 05:09 BingoBoingo: https://i.sli.mg/eeb8sr.jpg
1585411;1482043273;mircea_popescu;256 bits ie 32 bytes/minute i mean.
1585412;1482065388;mircea_popescu;!!up fromphuctor
1585413;1482065389;deedbot;fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
1585414;1482065410;mircea_popescu;herp.
1585415;1482065434;shinohai;"I got voice, better leave without speaking!"
1585416;1482065447;mircea_popescu;moar like "wut does dis button do".
1585417;1482065558;mircea_popescu;in random lulz, "**UPDATE- 4/10 22:21 EST** I mentioned in this post that it was hacked, that was incorrect of me. The person who created the list simply exploited Fetlife’s code to release information."
1585418;1482065681;Framedragger;this means that next time i provide paginated and nicely indexed access to relational data to a customer, i can call the feature "HACK THE SYSTEM"
1585419;1482065716;mircea_popescu;alternatively it should be standard defense of every "hacker" : dude, i didn't hack anything, i simply exploited code to release information
1585420;1482065731;mircea_popescu;isn't this quite literally the definition of the term among the illiterate yet contemporaneous monkeys ?
1585421;1482065848;Framedragger;pretty much, i think.
1585422;1482066301;mircea_popescu;it's funny, at least to me, the evolution towards fetisization. coupla decades ago, hacking meant that party a informatizes whatever system, say its satellite network, and party b hacked into the said system through the novel avenue ~and used it~ to i dunno, whatever, make itself a plate of french toast.
1585423;1482066321;mircea_popescu;today, hacking means that "o noes, we discovered stratfor was being hired to spy". dude...
1585424;1482066650;mircea_popescu;and in other randomness, let there be shed a tear today for the poor wedding photographers. i mean the expensive ones, catering to an "upper class clientele" consisting of women slightly uglier than the average with fathers slightly richer. dear god these poor people, they try. they ~try~.
1585425;1482066690;mircea_popescu;so much effort put into making the 30yo gorgons look like 16yo fragaria vesca
1585426;1482067602;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7A6FF5256A612CB6DCAD35F6ED04C530C490F5B9EF2933292DE02A55B028E507 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1604...5437 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.178.161.81 (ssh-rsa key from 213.178.161.81 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (eth1.lb01.wilhelma.de. DE)
1585427;1482071095;asciilifeform;http://www.realworldrisk.com << taleb, apparently
1585428;1482071153;asciilifeform;'Note: Discussions include no equations, but a lot of concepts and pictures'
1585429;1482071349;mircea_popescu;poor guy
1585430;1482071377;mircea_popescu;to quote, "but my son and my daughter came out of the water and said papa, you promised you'd play!"
1585431;1482071645;mircea_popescu;anyway, turn towards fetishization continues. in another decade "hacking" will be collecting software tools which ~could be used~ to explore directorry structures in which commands ~could have been run~
1585432;1482071695;mircea_popescu;whereas scholarship will be i dunno, screenshots of "discussions" including no equations but a lot of "concepts" and lolpics. perhaps full of comrpession artefacts ot the point of unreadability.
1585433;1482071732;mircea_popescu;and we'll look back on the age of the "idea man" as a great again focus.
1585434;1482072639;asciilifeform;eh this happened long ago
1585435;1482072671;asciilifeform;today 'hacking' is this - http://imgur.com/a/4aAPS
1585436;1482072681;asciilifeform;and similar atrocity
1585437;1482072713;asciilifeform;tomorrow it'll be finding ways to sneak word 'retarded' into shithub without being immediately censored...
1585438;1482073560;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-18#1585403 << reminds me of ocean city, md. just needs some bored eastern european girls looking on, and guys in long shorts sporting hats and white socks with flip flops combination
1585439;1482073560;a111;Logged on 2016-12-18 05:09 BingoBoingo: https://i.sli.mg/eeb8sr.jpg
1585440;1482073589;BingoBoingo;But that look of Envy!
1585441;1482073668;mircea_popescu;who the fuck wears socks with actually nevermind who the fuck wears flipflops!
1585442;1482073808;phf;i'm pretty sure that look is permanent. i've seen it while they negotiate with a shopkeeper, while they cary bags, while they decide where to go, etc.
1585443;1482073843;mircea_popescu;where's that great whats her face gif
1585444;1482073870;shinohai;Pink bike, she must be trying for the Amy Schumer Barbie look
1585445;1482073997;mircea_popescu;https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kumxxqzg3s1qa09ek.gif << pretty sure i had a higher res version on trilema but too lazy to dig
1585446;1482076365;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7A6FF5256A612CB6DCAD35F6ED04C530C490F5B9EF2933292DE02A55B028E507 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1402...2319 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.178.161.81 (ssh-rsa key from 213.178.161.81 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (eth1.lb01.wilhelma.de. DE)
1585447;1482077109;mats;ahaha photo shoot with a raspberry pi
1585448;1482077466;mircea_popescu;lol
1585449;1482077710;BingoBoingo;lol, that last popped domain
1585450;1482084816;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7GmA4/?raw=true
1585451;1482085298;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: how is 'palaver'?
1585452;1482085347;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wnB2E/?raw=true
1585453;1482085373;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it ~works
1585454;1482088706;hanbot;pete_dushenski belatedly it occurs to me the resolution (nearly three years in the making!) of the us courts circus research project (http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/) prolly deserves a spot in your year in review.
1585455;1482095023;trinque;asciilifeform: curious, by "consless lisp" did you mean basically a Forth with parens? or in other words, sexps of funcs, params, and a stack, and that's about it?
1585456;1482095060;*;trinque over here farting around in amd64 asm, wondering if the above is enough to say done with ASM, time to move up to implementing lisp atop the forthylisp
1585457;1482095090;*;trinque has very little interesting code yet, just a learning project.
1585458;1482095219;trinque;rather, not solely the above, but implementing the lisp primitives in it.
1585459;1482095815;asciilifeform;trinque: a consless lisp is literally just that
1585460;1482095821;trinque;neato
1585461;1482095829;asciilifeform;i.e. exactly like what you have now but without cons (and hence without gc)
1585462;1482095857;asciilifeform;every lisp is at some point in its life 'consless' (if the gc is written, as is proper, in itself; and prior to gc init at warmup)
1585463;1482095928;asciilifeform;you can write a routine in, e.g., ordinary commonlisp, in consless style
1585464;1482095940;asciilifeform;it is nontrivial, but sometimes is done when tightly optimizing by hand
1585465;1482099944;Framedragger;http://neveragain.tech/
1585466;1482099969;Framedragger;!$ getarchive neveragain.tech
1585467;1482099970;scriba;Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/8EMmi (this was archived by scriba: yes)
1585468;1482100032;Framedragger;<< "We, the undersigned, are employees of tech organizations and companies based in the United States. [...] We refuse to build a database of people based on their Constitutionally-protected religious beliefs. We refuse to facilitate mass deportations of people the government believes to be undesirable. "
1585469;1482100275;shinohai;!!up chatter
1585470;1482100276;deedbot;chatter voiced for 30 minutes.
1585471;1482100294;chatter;allah is doing
1585472;1482100301;chatter;sun is not doing allah is doing
1585473;1482100302;Framedragger;^ (not saying it's not a lost cause while working for one of those "tech" "leader" companies, in the way that applying adhesive to a bursting pipe is not fixing a water problem)
1585474;1482100303;chatter;to accept islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except allah and muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
1585475;1482100323;Framedragger;oh yeah, i've seen quite a bit of this on various tor irc channels
1585476;1482100340;shinohai;Well sorry I did that
1585477;1482100350;Framedragger;you never know what god may bring upon you
1585478;1482100379;shinohai;There is but one god, and Muhammad is his faggot
1585479;1482100779;trinque;oh, some kind of community outreach going on?
1585480;1482101045;shinohai;#9 Dogecoin. 0 commits xD https://bitstats.com/commits
1585481;1482101051;Framedragger;hm, i guess so. seems to be the case. apparently it's a US tech company employee thingie (with some springs of PR by the companies)
1585482;1482101424;phf;hmm if chatter wasn't just randomly spewing scripture it would be mildly entertaining if we had two competing fundamentalists with matching knowledge of their respective books
1585483;1482101529;Framedragger;indeed, that's be pretty interesting. (chatter came from leaseweb, so unfortunately prolly just a bot. but a polite-enough bot.)
1585484;1482101688;Framedragger;that'd*
1585485;1482104014;mircea_popescu;Framedragger if they weren't dipshits it might even matter.
1585486;1482104508;Framedragger;and in other "socpsy" newz, http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797616673193 << "When  given two scenarios: one in which an individual reacts to his  girlfriend’s infidelity by beating her, and the other, by beating her  cat, participants judged that the cat beater had worse moral character  than the woman beater, even though the act of beating a woman was judged  to be more immoral."
1585487;1482104580;mircea_popescu;there's no immorality involved in this for the love of all that's holy.
1585488;1482104588;mircea_popescu;ethics != morals wtf is wrong with these idiots.
1585489;1482104653;mircea_popescu;nobody actually knows what anything is, do they. not anymore. just word word word word word noun verb adjective numeral whatever the fuck no meaning whatsoever to be found anywhere ; complete and total anomie.
1585490;1482104679;mircea_popescu;o holy shit
1585491;1482104729;mircea_popescu;anomie is NOT "a condition in which society provides little moral guidance to individuals". for one thing, because it's not a ~condition~, it's a situation. no, these aren't the same thing. for tyhe other, becaue individuals provide guidance for society, not the other fucking way around. the "individuals who are guided by society are called children.
1585492;1482104739;mircea_popescu;anomie is the collapse of names into meaninglessness.
1585493;1482104828;Framedragger;one day i fear of mircea_popescu going into recursive loop by being outraged by wikipedia definitions, using other terms to show his point, and then finding those terms to also be ill-defined on wikipedia. :)
1585494;1482104869;Framedragger;anomie, nice word, hm.
1585495;1482104869;Framedragger;/me bids goodnight
1585496;1482104880;mircea_popescu;nn
1585497;1482105267;*;BingoBoingo thinks that happened at least once already
1585498;1482105333;mircea_popescu;anyway ; the cat situation evaluates to worse quite explainably, because if woman misbehaves and woman is beaten then 1 norm is breached ; whereas if woman misbehaves and cat is beaten then 2 norms are breached. the way reptile brain works, the sum of two variables is larger than either one no matter what happens ; and larger by a fraction of the largest of the two, not by the smaller of the two.
1585499;1482105364;mircea_popescu;in this special math, 100+1 = 110 not 101
1585500;1482105409;mircea_popescu;hence the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580321
1585501;1482105409;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 12:51 mircea_popescu: also the enslavement of the general population, murder, rape, arson and jaywalking.
1585502;1482105432;mircea_popescu;but hey, idiocy doesn't hurt ; if it did wikipedia'd be larger than silk road.
1585503;1482105473;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo im pretty sure it happened already yeah.
1585504;1482105616;BingoBoingo;Tale prolly on Trilema
1585505;1482112667;phf;""Polaris" system from MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab accelerates website load-time (34 percent faster!!1) by decreasing network trips." great new advacements from the famous CSAIL
1585506;1482113962;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/41eWh/?raw=true
1585507;1482115721;*;asciilifeform sent 1st crate of FUCKGOATS on its way.
1585508;1482116139;mod6;congrats asciilifeform
1585509;1482116145;mod6;& mircea_popescu
1585510;1482116380;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's pet creature also contributed !
1585511;1482116483;BingoBoingo;Tell her ty
1585512;1482116497;mod6;yeah srsly. ty
1585513;1482116511;*;BingoBoingo needs to get a pet he can stand for more than a month at a time.
1585514;1482116879;oglafbot;http://oglaf.com/heats/
1585515;1482117042;mod6;haha
1585516;1482117534;mircea_popescu;phf hey, at least unlike the 15-20 years of "ai research", this ~actually does something~.
1585517;1482117572;mircea_popescu;as much as we might like the (self-unaware) lords involved, it can't be seriously argued that mit actually did much in cs.
1585518;1482117698;BingoBoingo;https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/12/16/stony-brook-philosophy-phd-says-his-department-plans-review-amid-claims-hes-neo-nazi
1585519;1482117768;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo the solution traditionally involves starvation & leather belts.
1585520;1482118589;asciilifeform;achtung, panzers!!
1585521;1482118590;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html has been updated!
1585522;1482118697;phf;mircea_popescu: csail (mit ai lab then) published "ai memos" from 1959 to sometime in early 2000s where they described a lot of "firsts" in computing in general. scheme spec was published by sussman and steele, lisp 1.5 compiler (first "self-hosting"), lisp machine architecture, etc. most papers are not so much ai as computing in general.
1585523;1482118814;asciilifeform;1958-78 or so, mit was one of the 2 or 3 worthwhile things happening in computing per se.
1585524;1482118828;asciilifeform;(and i'm not even certain whether to count bell labs)
1585525;1482118829;phf;i think "ai research" is a mislabel, because the promise of ai was used to keep the funding going, and there is a lot of failed hacks on the subject, but the bulk of actual work was more about how to do computers
1585526;1482118837;asciilifeform;aha, it was bait.
1585527;1482119052;phf;i'm pretty sure that ai memos are enough to rebuild computing from scratch. has architectural descriptions, cpu design, fabrication, language designs, text editors ("emacs" before it was taken over by rms is described in one of the ai-memos, both as a standalone thing and as set of TECO marcos), various algorithms
1585528;1482119075;asciilifeform;not only computing, but the ~actual~ computing, not the new jersey garbage.
1585529;1482119611;phf;unix also had a lot more of an organic decentralized approach, beyond mans i don't think anybody actual read anything on the subject of unix (a few key books, like k&r or steven's on tcpip). pretty sure people would just grab the source and learn by exploration
1585530;1482119671;asciilifeform;it was and remains a fungus.
1585531;1482119867;phf;i think it's great if you only use twm/x11 to spawn a couple of xterms, so you can run your mathematica and write your Fortran simulation code. sort of a Dijkstra lisp machine, when exploratory interactivity is not the main goal. building this whole infrastructure on it was a folly
1585532;1482119889;BingoBoingo;"One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
1585533;1482119889;BingoBoingo;” moment, and the organization describes itself as committed to defending "the heritage, identity and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."" << Brian Leiter is a notorious aspie
1585534;1482120304;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1585535;1482120306;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 444081 | Current Difficulty: 3.10153855703E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 445535 | Next Difficulty In: 1454 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1585536;1482124605;BingoBoingo;Camoflage https://i.sli.mg/CDco9B.png
1585537;1482124662;asciilifeform;ugh
1585538;1482126282;BingoBoingo;http://www.vagabondjourney.com/bad-tripping-fat-crap-low-big-people-using-squatter-toilets-asia/
1585539;1482127126;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://www.od43.com/1941_Eichmann_Rothschild_RB.html << 'your' rothchild chick lived?!
1585540;1482129113;Framedragger;congrats on the shipment asciilifeform :)
1585541;1482130534;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch
1585542;1482130534;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 23:46 asciilifeform: btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790
1585543;1482151590;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm sorry ?
1585544;1482152107;mircea_popescu;ahahaha! so : according to mp's meticulously kept state archives : yes it's true one josef israel kugelmann from fritzlar-kassel (#29044 born 13may1877, prev residence munsterstrasse 60) was (and died) at dachau. his wife, ~betty~ sara, was nee plaut not rotschild.
1585545;1482152504;mircea_popescu;seems you found an internet fake.
1585546;1482154606;Framedragger;um, i was testing a script, and submitted gpg key to phuctor with luzly metainfo (http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7F1646FA33357FBC152F66E66E297B4F11EF0C3B04438FDF3B254993C3A6F814).. erm, since those specific rsa numbers are already in phuctor db, it'd be safe to remove this one asciilifeform. or keep it for the luls
1585547;1482154642;Framedragger;(metainfo was supposed to be different but i experienced a derp.)
1585548;1482154657;mircea_popescu;hand operations not worht it
1585549;1482154688;Framedragger;this was while testing a script to be given to this austrian dude who wrote me, asking how to submit his server's ssh key (ssh server running on a nonstandard port)
1585550;1482154729;mircea_popescu;convertors, not a bad idea. we'll have to fix everything to work with proper rsa format anyways
1585551;1482154731;Framedragger;i think some sysadmins may want to be able to submit their ssh-rsa pubkeys themselves. and phuctor only accepts openpgp format, this needs to be converted (ssh pubkey -> gpg pubkey). so i'm adapting/stealing jurov's script and cleaning it up.
1585552;1482154743;Framedragger;indeed..
1585553;1482154772;Framedragger;(and yeah, this dude was like, "hey nice project, how do i submit my key for testing" - cool.)
1585554;1482154829;Framedragger;(i clarified to him that it's not my project, dunno how he got the impression)
1585555;1482154874;mircea_popescu;wellyour name's on it
1585556;1482154932;Framedragger;but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
1585557;1482154944;Framedragger;i.e., maybe it's not clear because asciilifeform is too shy
1585558;1482154976;Framedragger;eh, whatevs. i redirect the masses to f.a.q. etc as needed.
1585559;1482154994;Framedragger;(by masses i mean one dude)
1585560;1482155016;mircea_popescu;i don't think you understand how software works. there's a very clear denied middle : it is either the product of a ~lone individual~, or else of a corporation. there is no multiple-people-work-without-usg-foundations-and-crap in most people's minds, because there isn't such a thing is most people's experience.
1585561;1482155037;mircea_popescu;it's like the girl that naturally fucks on the first date, and demands to be fucked in the ass. yes they can exist. no they don't figure in anyone's expectations.
1585562;1482155132;mircea_popescu;and yes if you run into one, you're probably one step removed from a guy who http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580129 and two steps removed from truckloads of $forbidenitems
1585563;1482155132;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
1585564;1482156931;mircea_popescu;https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
1585565;1482157764;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585548 << thing was quite certainly not built to be wound backwards
1585566;1482157764;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 13:37 mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it
1585567;1482157771;asciilifeform;(removing anything whatsoever, is very very painful)
1585568;1482157816;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
1585569;1482157816;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 13:42 Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
1585570;1482157859;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585564 << folx throw in all kinds of nonsense when answering spam surveys, mega-surprise ?
1585571;1482157859;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 14:15 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
1585572;1482157867;asciilifeform;'auto: bmw fuel: hamburger'
1585573;1482158082;Framedragger;asciilifeform: apparently not clear to some.
1585574;1482158307;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585532 << it wouldn't be so astonishing if in the process of 'heightening the contradictions', academitards who go against party line end up with revoked degrees. this was sop in the last reich, why not this one.
1585575;1482158307;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 03:58 BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
1585576;1482158315;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform at least media consumption data comes from their netflix boxes spying onthem
1585577;1482158318;mircea_popescu;no surveys involved.
1585578;1482158337;asciilifeform;netflix has hardware box?!
1585579;1482158356;*;mircea_popescu suffers from a chronic inability to distinguish the microsoft vermin.
1585580;1482158372;asciilifeform;but sure, i can picture how this part might work.
1585581;1482158383;mircea_popescu;much like some people can't tell blacks apart, i can't really distinguish between https-and-unicode flavouring #1 and #2
1585582;1482158416;mircea_popescu;so watever, tivo ? cable top box ? call it what you will, the official-media-consumption-toolkit.
1585583;1482158505;asciilifeform;these are becoming fewer in number, even among chronic tv users
1585584;1482158547;asciilifeform;but yes, i can see how it might work, given as most folx who have these get their ip connectivity from same place as the tv box
1585585;1482158607;mircea_popescu;are you fucking kidding me ? bad media is becoming deeply universalized ; i made the mistake to try and watch "black mirror" because omsone said here, it's TERRIBLE from a cinematic point of view (the idiots can't act, can't block, can't speak, can't anyfucking thing ; the whole thing's a droned on ted talk, which is the point) and now i see it everwhere. last night tried to watch film with harvey keitel and michael cain, it
1585586;1482158608;mircea_popescu;turned out to be unwatchable - the EXACT same imbecile substance.
1585587;1482158624;mircea_popescu;"oh men are bad and racist and let's all hold hands and have luce irigaray-level issues"
1585588;1482158662;mircea_popescu;put on stage by exactly the sort of lazy, stupid and therefore unfuckworthy nitwit that used to be consigned to the margins of etsy craftsmanship and bad mary sue fanfic.
1585589;1482158681;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the ~hardware box~ is becoming less common. most of the derps are watching on comp now.
1585590;1482158685;mircea_popescu;fucking epileptic trees had a seizure and took over us media production department.,
1585591;1482158720;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform sure, because https & assorted crapola of "progress" made it safe to move the box on their pc. and it is cheaper this way.
1585592;1482158752;mircea_popescu;consequently attwood pens excited pieces about how "the golden age of x46 gaming is now".
1585593;1482158783;mircea_popescu;ie, the same idiots who thought clinton can win actually think they got the platform sufficiently under control.
1585594;1482158870;*;mircea_popescu is particularly annoyed because tried to play torchlight, total clone of diablo ii with ~half the ideas. i'm not sure anyone born after 1980 can even comprehend what a fucking insult to human reason that statement is. 
1585595;1482158878;mircea_popescu;like "star wars with less ideas".
1585596;1482158913;mircea_popescu;"the golden age of all the games suck but we finally don't feel threatened by pgp anymore"
1585597;1482158913;asciilifeform;speaking of trumplincton, the actual ceremony is apparently today.
1585598;1482158936;asciilifeform;(not the coronation, but the anointment)
1585599;1482158940;mircea_popescu;lol
1585600;1482158947;mircea_popescu;are you going ?
1585601;1482159021;asciilifeform;the electoral college thing isn't public
1585602;1482159026;asciilifeform;and i dun recall being invited
1585603;1482159047;asciilifeform;the other one, might go to, if bored enough
1585604;1482159052;mircea_popescu;o.O sikrit meetings of representatives ? sounds so very november parade-y!
1585605;1482159066;asciilifeform;aha that's how they do it
1585606;1482159087;mircea_popescu;do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ?
1585607;1482159116;asciilifeform;habemus fuhrer!111
1585608;1482159138;mircea_popescu;i think fuhrer is german. prolly fraulein in latin.
1585609;1482159268;asciilifeform;lel
1585610;1482159278;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/xTr3N << holy mother of fuck, is that... a trinitron ? in there
1585611;1482159310;mircea_popescu;it might well be
1585612;1482159326;mircea_popescu;shape looks kinda right and the static collection fits the tube patter
1585613;1482159366;asciilifeform;aha.
1585614;1482159390;mircea_popescu;lol idiots drank antifreeze
1585615;1482159407;mircea_popescu;how. how the fuck. how do you drink antifreeze it's like the most objectionable thing in nature.
1585616;1482159453;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you gotta be a serious 'alconaut', and accustomed to swallowing strange, to get there
1585617;1482159470;mircea_popescu;must have like <3 tastebuds left.
1585618;1482159505;mircea_popescu;the same species that can glossaly grade nafta dies from antifreeze ingestion. fucking diversity of mankind already.
1585619;1482159585;asciilifeform;'Did He who made the lamb make thee?' (tm)(r)
1585620;1482159661;mircea_popescu;oh i bet i know what it is, derps prolly use methyl glycol for antifreeze
1585621;1482159670;mircea_popescu;why the fuck you'd do that is beyond anyone's comprehension, but w/e.
1585622;1482159693;asciilifeform;in same rag, https://archive.is/pGDLS >> clitlerists go after the 'heil tritler' d00d's mother. his fans - fight back. 'oh noez localhaust'
1585623;1482160095;shinohai;"How did we get hacked? I just don't understand, employee information was so secure!" http://www.nerc.com/AboutNERC/Resource%20Documents/roster.pdf
1585624;1482160794;mod6;mornin'
1585625;1482160872;mircea_popescu;hola!
1585626;1482161002;shinohai;heya mod6
1585627;1482161049;mod6;how's it goin today ?
1585628;1482161282;mircea_popescu;no mal!
1585629;1482161416;mod6;bien :]
1585630;1482162458;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it
1585631;1482162458;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 06:55 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch
1585632;1482162516;asciilifeform;(specifically, cpuminer thread will sleep forever if there are no peers in the peer table, or if it - through braindamaged heuristic - decides that node is in 'initial block download')
1585633;1482162632;asciilifeform;also imho ben_vulpes has a very spiffy project here and it deserves more brain cycles, he is actually testing the 'bitcoin on alpha centauri' scenario! i.e. replay of time, from genesis and up, in parallel universe, on trb.
1585634;1482162692;mircea_popescu;^
1585635;1482162743;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0056 << and holy shit what is this.
1585636;1482162756;mircea_popescu;pretty sure various people (myself included) did full trb blockchain download ; but mimi's very open and usefully so.
1585637;1482162772;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no, not full download! that's trivial and everyone did it
1585638;1482162781;asciilifeform;he is doing mine-from-0
1585639;1482162787;asciilifeform;in parallel world.
1585640;1482162835;asciilifeform;y'know, to see if trb miner actually works. and if indeed the thing can be put on alpha centauri.
1585641;1482162853;mircea_popescu;what did i say you're no-ing at ?
1585642;1482162861;mircea_popescu;and that looks like ... defensive buffer allocation ? lol.
1585643;1482162929;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand, you were referring to 'spin up trb node from 0 on real-life blockchain'. which more or less everyone involved has done, multiple times. his current thing appears to be the 'lan testnet' scenario i suggested a while back. where one pretends that the year is 2009.
1585644;1482162943;asciilifeform;and mines from genesis, transacts between toy nodes, etc.
1585645;1482162975;mircea_popescu;i said everyone did x, but y is good.
1585646;1482163007;mircea_popescu;anyway, yes, same sentiment.
1585647;1482163010;asciilifeform;it is necessary. afaik trb's miner has not been tested since... 2011?
1585648;1482163023;mircea_popescu;2013ish
1585649;1482163135;mod6;i've run it myself since then for sure.
1585650;1482163141;mod6;im running it now!
1585651;1482163142;mod6;works fine.
1585652;1482163152;asciilifeform;neato.
1585653;1482163165;mod6;# LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getgenerate
1585654;1482163166;mod6;true
1585655;1482163176;mod6;# uptime 15:59:09 up 336 days, 17:26,  6 users,  load average: 1.21, 0.94, 0.52
1585656;1482163183;asciilifeform;mod6: yes but does it produce a block ?
1585657;1482163197;mod6;(15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=setgenerate
1585658;1482163197;mod6;(15:57) <@mod6> 1 processors
1585659;1482163197;mod6;(15:57) <@mod6> Starting 1 BitcoinMiner threads
1585660;1482163197;mod6;(15:57) <@mod6> BitcoinMiner started
1585661;1482163197;mod6;(15:57) <@mod6> keypool reserve 64
1585662;1482163199;mod6;(15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=getgenerate
1585663;1482163207;asciilifeform;as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
1585664;1482163210;mod6;produce a block?  quit trollin'
1585665;1482163221;asciilifeform;nono, not on planet earth net !
1585666;1482163231;asciilifeform;in mod6's parallel world.
1585667;1482163241;mircea_popescu;no he is right, you can mine it if you stay on a special subnet that's isolated.
1585668;1482163260;mod6;that i do not know. but indeed a good test.  set diff to 1, then generate
1585669;1482163275;mircea_popescu;kinda what prb "testnet" tries to be
1585670;1482163370;mod6;totally worthwhile.  but the exant code appears to still work on main-net anyway.  but agreed, more testing/auditing/investigation required for sure.
1585671;1482163422;asciilifeform;i killed the 'testnet' crud because wtf, why did it use variant rules from main-net.
1585672;1482163426;asciilifeform;it made 0 sense.
1585673;1482163450;mod6;yeah, agree.
1585674;1482163451;asciilifeform;it is entirely possible to test 'bitcoin from 2009' simply by running from empty blockchain on lan.
1585675;1482163455;mod6;i signed it.
1585676;1482163457;asciilifeform;and if not -- then it is broken and needs fixing.
1585677;1482163497;mod6;lemme dig something up.
1585678;1482163527;asciilifeform;ok i'ma quote this atrocity in the l0gz, because so far as i can tell, it works only by accident, and is an epic wtf:
1585679;1482163531;asciilifeform;0054 // Align by increasing pointer, must have extra space at end of buffer
1585680;1482163531;asciilifeform;0055 template <size_t nBytes, typename T>
1585681;1482163531;asciilifeform;0056 T* alignup(T* p)
1585682;1482163531;asciilifeform;0057 {
1585683;1482163532;asciilifeform;0058     union
1585684;1482163533;asciilifeform;0059     {
1585685;1482163535;asciilifeform;0060         T* ptr;
1585686;1482163537;asciilifeform;0061         size_t n;
1585687;1482163539;asciilifeform;0062     } u;
1585688;1482163541;asciilifeform;0063     u.ptr = p;
1585689;1482163543;asciilifeform;0064     u.n = (u.n + (nBytes-1)) & ~(nBytes-1);
1585690;1482163545;asciilifeform;0065     return u.ptr;
1585691;1482163547;asciilifeform;0066 }
1585692;1482163556;asciilifeform;can anyone tell me how the union here can possibly not result in rubbish?
1585693;1482163608;mircea_popescu;hey, you signed it mofo :D
1585694;1482163636;asciilifeform;afaik this only lives in genesis.
1585695;1482163665;mod6;So i think you pointed at this recently: http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L12379
1585696;1482163697;asciilifeform;mod6: aha, several times
1585697;1482163705;mod6;and if it is required to be attached to at least one other node, then that may be a problem.  We could still test on a lan, but you'd have to have two trb nodes on that lan to get past that line of code.
1585698;1482163720;asciilifeform;mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585663
1585699;1482163720;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 16:00 asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
1585700;1482163728;mod6;ah, thx.
1585701;1482163741;mod6;(still trying to catch up, as you can see haha)
1585702;1482163750;mod6;And yah, that union is scary.
1585703;1482163769;mircea_popescu;its not altogether a bad idea to do this ; on the contrary, it is the sort of thinking process that denotes a healthy, functioning intellect.
1585704;1482163779;mircea_popescu;(the mining ; not the union)
1585705;1482163841;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, that union is at best a screaming idiocy, and at worst a boobytrap, it is a way to straight-out arithmetically munge a pointer without provoking gcc warning
1585706;1482163891;asciilifeform;interestingly, it is used only in the miner.
1585707;1482164261;mod6;i look forward to ben_vulpes's investgation on this.
1585708;1482164405;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> netflix has hardware box?! << Usually "netflix box" is built into newer, shittier tvs
1585709;1482164425;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that would do it
1585710;1482164450;mod6;An update on progress towards the privkey tools feature added [ import private key with scanning from a specified beginHeight ]: I have proven out the edge case previously mentioned, twice, as expected.  It can be resolved by doing a -rescan at any time.  So far at least.
1585711;1482164469;asciilifeform;mod6: which edge case ?
1585712;1482164483;mod6;Lemme see if I can dig it up, stand by.
1585713;1482164510;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580953
1585714;1482164510;a111;Logged on 2016-12-10 19:49 mod6: This edge case being: If pub/priv keypair A, have been sent 1.0 bitcoins on say, tx 123456789, on block 200`000.  Then sent 0.5 bitcoins from pub/priv keypair A to pubkey address B on block 250`000. If the uesr only scans back from 300`000, the balance in the wallet may not reflect the 0.5 output still there for that pubkey (from keypair A).
1585715;1482164516;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ? << Election by Throckmorton's Sign!
1585716;1482164554;mircea_popescu;heh
1585717;1482164566;mod6;There are some cosmetic changes I may still make to the handling of the parameters of this function, and further testing, auditing, and validation are still required by third-parties.
1585718;1482164589;mod6;But certainly a step in the right direction.  Will update again as they are available.  Salud!
1585719;1482164692;asciilifeform;mod6: as i understand it, the cure is to scan backwards until the search tree terminates in coinbases for all branches.
1585720;1482164728;asciilifeform;(which could indeed take you through the entire history of the universe, but chances are -- it won't)
1585721;1482164742;mod6;we've discussed this.
1585722;1482164753;mod6;and, we certainly could scan backwards.
1585723;1482164767;mod6;however, this requires further code changes than are actually necessary.
1585724;1482164805;asciilifeform;probably. i imagine the use case for this knob is simple, 'i want to know if i've been paid, and the counterparty has no time machine, so it'll happen some time after $lastblock'
1585725;1482164819;mod6;i don't love this feature as it introduces complexity and an edge-case that mig-pilot needs to be aware of in the first place.  but i'll consider it based on the idea that the complexity can be contained.
1585726;1482164820;asciilifeform;so mod6's simple 'search after $blocknum' worx.
1585727;1482164940;mod6;sure.
1585728;1482164974;mod6;my vpatch essentially utilizes this function, which exists in the vpatch that was already sent to the ML:
1585729;1482164977;mod6;pwalletMain->ScanForWalletTransactions(pindexStart, true);
1585730;1482164983;mircea_popescu;tracing all payments to the coinbase will be useful if/when we decide to not accept "segwit" payments.
1585731;1482165000;mircea_popescu;"if your coinbases do not trace to a block subsidy, you did not pay." sort of thing.
1585732;1482165017;mod6;http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L25189 << scans forward from an index pointer
1585733;1482165052;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, for so long as we continue to count gavinistic payments as actual coin, and forgo 'trace to coinbase', there is a hole wide enough to drive a tank through, for conjuring coin from thin air
1585734;1482165056;mod6;mircea_popescu: ah.  now that's an interesting argument.
1585735;1482165091;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you can deterministically verify that segwit doesn't create coins without accessing their proprietary binary blob.
1585736;1482165106;asciilifeform;only by tallying up the circulating coin, neh ?
1585737;1482165114;asciilifeform;which is agonizingly O(N^2)
1585738;1482165122;mircea_popescu;by tallying up the segwit inputs and outputs. well, sure, but it can be verified is the point.
1585739;1482165138;asciilifeform;has anybody publicly carried this out ?
1585740;1482165141;mircea_popescu;it also doesn't work for any individual transaction, just for the whole windows abomination taken together.
1585741;1482165164;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's in "give them rope" phase of my give them rope to hang themselves with procedure.
1585742;1482165213;asciilifeform;true, wouldn't want to knock out the stool from under the gavin until the noose is properly on.
1585743;1482165245;mircea_popescu;more's the point, notwithstanding we got a reprieve from "get it done by summer", we still don't have actual alternative we're happy with, so... what's the rush.
1585744;1482165370;asciilifeform;it would still be interesting to have alarm bell in trb , connected to 'i booted and it looks like >$maxcoin bitcoin are circulating'
1585745;1482165380;mircea_popescu;true.
1585746;1482165428;*;mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.)
1585747;1482165494;asciilifeform;sum(unspent)
1585748;1482165505;mircea_popescu;no i mean the max.
1585749;1482165613;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0037
1585750;1482165702;mod6;mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post
1585751;1482165772;mircea_popescu;in other unrelated lulz, buenos aires, one of the largest urban (well, "urban", whatever) agglomerations in the world ... closed down its subway system today. all of it. probem ???
1585752;1482165829;asciilifeform;we had this early in the year here in mordor, after a fire, it was a kind of test-run for collapse, road jams as far as eye could see
1585753;1482165864;asciilifeform;( a substantial portion of who is in washington on a business day, leaves at the end of same day in the underground train )
1585754;1482165886;mircea_popescu;this isn't after a fire. this is because... well... the subte employees are protesting.
1585755;1482165892;mircea_popescu;they can do this here. somehow.
1585756;1482165895;asciilifeform;lul
1585757;1482165919;mircea_popescu;and not like there was an angry crowd at the entryways prepared to set them on fire, either.
1585758;1482165945;mircea_popescu;somehow this bunch of idiots wants me to believe that a bovine constituency that doesn't give a shit about turned off subway somehow actually goes out and protests the government.
1585759;1482165963;mircea_popescu;because i'm supposed to have been born as stupid as they are or wtf.
1585760;1482166132;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585630 << and specifically, i believe isInitialBlockDownload
1585761;1482166132;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it
1585762;1482166147;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the peer thing also
1585763;1482166150;asciilifeform;srsly, wtf, why
1585764;1482166174;ben_vulpes;yeah we did this
1585765;1482166185;ben_vulpes;i acquiesed to the inanity and made 2 nodes happen
1585766;1482166238;ben_vulpes;still no mining, and my nose points at the initialblock check
1585767;1482166284;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: quite likely it is stuck in the 'initialblock' idiocy, yes
1585768;1482166296;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0
1585769;1482166305;asciilifeform;gavin et al definitely did not want anyone to experiment with replaying the universe, no.
1585770;1482166313;mircea_popescu;in typical style, poorly documented (satoshi made, too)
1585771;1482166348;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?
1585772;1482166363;mircea_popescu;satoshi up and fucked up the client one day.
1585773;1482166383;ben_vulpes;k thx
1585774;1482166420;ben_vulpes;produced blocks that it wouldn't validate itself? throw me a bone here
1585775;1482166430;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit upstack, when is the last time that anyone verified that all of the circulating coin (i.e. unspent outputs) can trace their descent to valid coinbases ?
1585776;1482166435;mircea_popescu;not in theory.
1585777;1482166471;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nobody did this publicly EVER afaik ; the non-donedness of which is a variable i keep track of in mah own models.
1585778;1482166487;asciilifeform;say we drill'em and -----
1585779;1482166488;asciilifeform;tungsten.
1585780;1482166499;mircea_popescu;hey, you're the tungsten expert, go ahead.
1585781;1482166564;asciilifeform;betcha this'd be, what, 3 new lines on top of ben_vulpes's proggy.
1585782;1482166573;mircea_popescu;indeed.
1585783;1482166585;ben_vulpes;stop committing me to things
1585784;1482166600;asciilifeform;hey you wrote it, ben_vulpes , so i'ma save the glory of the discovery for you!111
1585785;1482166614;mircea_popescu;he's seen it in others and is fascinated by the process ; have you noticed he spent the past few weeks trying to commit people to things ?
1585786;1482166619;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you suck as a pm alf, give it up.
1585787;1482166621;asciilifeform;'you were woodland animals all along!' (tm) (r) ('oglaf')
1585788;1482166655;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm experimenting with not-attempting-every-possible-thing-with-own-hands
1585789;1482166664;ben_vulpes;i just demoted the entirety of my todo list in favor of this mining thing, which is actually a subtask on a thing for mod6
1585790;1482166682;mircea_popescu;yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em.
1585791;1482166697;ben_vulpes;so sqlator q1 is feasible but whatever, don't count on it.
1585792;1482166711;asciilifeform;lol, nobody has to do the homework if they dun want.
1585793;1482166735;ben_vulpes;subj of homework
1585794;1482166755;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579351 << i have archived everything on that www-cgi endpoint now
1585795;1482166755;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely
1585796;1482166799;asciilifeform;neato ben_vulpes , is this mirror somewhere /
1585797;1482166800;asciilifeform;?
1585798;1482166817;ben_vulpes;if anyone wants copies, you know where to write. the recipe, however, is tres simple: wget -mpr www-cgi>
1585799;1482166828;ben_vulpes;thanks, tmux
1585800;1482166840;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: if you'd like a copy i can get you a link later today
1585801;1482166886;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: actually do you think stuffing entire www-dir behind webserver > gzipped ball?
1585802;1482166915;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, gavin&friends nuked the historical codebase (was on sourceforge, http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19/ was first announced version) because "moving to github", gotta be proper usg tools and all. then github of course includes nothing but their current crap.
1585803;1482167071;*;ben_vulpes off. pants; train
1585804;1482167180;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ever diff'em?
1585805;1482167191;mircea_popescu;diff who ?
1585806;1482167288;asciilifeform;original vs gavin
1585807;1482167298;mircea_popescu;nope.
1585808;1482167949;mircea_popescu;anyway, you should see the early versions, with bitmaps and shit.
1585809;1482168905;asciilifeform;bitmaps??
1585810;1482168980;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
1585811;1482168993;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha!
1585812;1482169004;asciilifeform;this was in the 'complete words of satoshi' deadtree i bought some years ago
1585813;1482169007;mircea_popescu;!~google addressbook16mask.bmp
1585814;1482169008;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: zcash/ui.rc at master · zcash/zcash · GitHub: <https://github.com/zcash/zcash/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; sidecoin/ui.rc at master · AugurProject/sidecoin · GitHub: <https://github.com/AugurProject/sidecoin/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; quark/ui.rc at master · MaxGuevara/quark · GitHub: <https://github.com/MaxGuevara/quark/blob/master/share/ui.rc>
1585815;1482169032;asciilifeform;ah the gui crapola
1585816;1482169038;mircea_popescu;no, this is pre qt.
1585817;1482169041;asciilifeform;wx
1585818;1482169042;mircea_popescu;above appears eg in 0.1.5
1585819;1482169045;mircea_popescu;right
1585820;1482169088;asciilifeform;originally wx (which is the 'pepsicola' to qt, there were and are precisely 2 cross-os gui libs that work at all, wx and qt. wx is the c lib)
1585821;1482169136;asciilifeform;wx is gnarly but at least doesn't require entire preprocessor!
1585822;1482169159;asciilifeform;(qt, believe or not, does, a standard cpp compiler won't eat raw qt code)
1585823;1482169239;mircea_popescu;heh.
1585824;1482169305;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/kEEmw << apparently brownshirts!1111
1585825;1482169372;mircea_popescu;heh
1585826;1482169383;asciilifeform;'But the experts could not think of another example of a president-elect continuing with any private security after Election Day, when Secret Service protection expands dramatically for the winner. In fact, most candidates drop any outside security the moment they’re granted Secret Service protection. Trump’s spending on private security, on the other hand, actually increased after he was granted Secret Service protection in Nove
1585827;1482169383;asciilifeform;mber 2015.'
1585828;1482169393;asciilifeform;ohnoez, EXPERTS COULD NOT THINK!1111
1585829;1482169665;mircea_popescu;experts also don't have the winner's keen incentive to get rid of the praetorian guard, and permanently.
1585830;1482169685;mircea_popescu;if /me worked for the us secret service, /me would be getting permanently lost in $farcountry just about last week.
1585831;1482169700;asciilifeform;loooong knives!111
1585832;1482169714;mircea_popescu;pretty dangerous thing to be in january 2017.
1585833;1482169719;asciilifeform;elsewhere, in nearby monkeystans, https://archive.is/5Q1U8 >> 'Venezuela’s president said Sunday that the sudden decision to scrap the country’s most-used currency bill was an economic triumph over the country’s enemies even as the government sent troops and police to cities where riots and looting broke out over the measure. In a national radio and television broadcast, Nicolas Maduro said his abrupt action had flooded the cou
1585834;1482169720;asciilifeform;ntry’s banks with currency deposited by Venezuelans racing to get rid of the paper bills while also devastating Colombian-border currency traders he blames for the bolivar’s precipitous plunge in value against “the criminal dollar.”'
1585835;1482169722;asciilifeform;full-bore india
1585836;1482169755;mircea_popescu;more like full bore korea.
1585837;1482170531;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585810 << asciilifeform didn't you do a whole run of eatblock? 'deterministic sync'?
1585838;1482170531;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
1585839;1482170550;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i did, several times
1585840;1482170560;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: worx great
1585841;1482170577;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585568 << he means it's missing link to twitter and hackernews profiles :}
1585842;1482170577;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
1585843;1482170580;mircea_popescu;blocks ~prior to that date~ ; not the current blockchain.
1585844;1482170580;ben_vulpes;because 'new' validation rules?
1585845;1482170592;mircea_popescu;there were at least a dozen blocks including breaking txns. at the time.
1585846;1482170599;asciilifeform;i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days
1585847;1482170622;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: and the rules were changed to permit these busted transactions?
1585848;1482170632;asciilifeform;incidentally all of asciilifeform's public trb nodes descend from that one.
1585849;1482170635;mircea_popescu;no, on the contrary, to retroactively orphan what were valid blocks at the time
1585850;1482170641;ben_vulpes;aah
1585851;1482170658;ben_vulpes;so there's no 'at block XXX use iAmRetardedBlockValidator'?
1585852;1482170658;mircea_popescu;well, "valid". what had been accepted.
1585853;1482170668;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes not afaik.
1585854;1482170677;mircea_popescu;but the discussion wasn't that, it was "rewalk history" bla bla.
1585855;1482170681;ben_vulpes;yeah i hadn't seen one. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
1585856;1482170691;mircea_popescu;history-as is has some various peculiarities, such as this.
1585857;1482170703;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: all of the blocks in my chain validate per trb. (at one time i suspected that they would not -- but they do.)
1585858;1482170717;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: mine too
1585859;1482170761;ben_vulpes;embarassing as it is that i'm only now finding that trb doesn't solipsistically mine, i did determine that it validates the whole chain.
1585860;1482170793;mircea_popescu;how is this embarassing
1585861;1482170874;ben_vulpes;thing is broken in very obvious way, news in year 3
1585862;1482170911;ben_vulpes;one man's obvious is another man's obscure rathole broken by shitgnomes
1585863;1482170932;mircea_popescu;tru.
1585864;1482170994;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes et al : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << the deterministic sync thing
1585865;1482171003;asciilifeform;for reference.
1585866;1482171042;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9
1585867;1482171048;asciilifeform;using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
1585868;1482171094;ben_vulpes;aha
1585869;1482171103;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408 also somewhat relevant
1585870;1482171103;a111;Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
1585871;1482171117;mats;http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot 'Russia's ambassador to Turkey assassinated in Ankara'
1585872;1482171143;ben_vulpes;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html
1585873;1482171241;asciilifeform;mats: usg certainly would not like anything like diplomacy to carry on between ru and tr
1585874;1482171337;mats;http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745297/US-Embassy-security-incident-attack-Ankara-Russian-ambassador-shooting
1585875;1482171361;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.
1585876;1482171433;asciilifeform;mats: lolnoshit, 'seekoority incident', the backstage folx who helped mr.pistolero do his thing, needed to cover their retreat
1585877;1482171450;ben_vulpes;isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?
1585878;1482171470;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: let's do gedankenexperiment.
1585879;1482171471;mats;have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
1585880;1482171481;mats;i'd read it
1585881;1482171488;asciilifeform;say martians show up with magical comp that can orphan 2009 blocks
1585882;1482171490;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i disembark this train shortly, but yes lets
1585883;1482171491;asciilifeform;you will let'em ?
1585884;1482171516;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
1585885;1482171520;asciilifeform;iirc we had a thread with mircea_popescu , who remarked that it is not obviously wrong to 'let'em'
1585886;1482171547;ben_vulpes;'cold equations'
1585887;1482171556;asciilifeform;it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
1585888;1482171628;ben_vulpes;what rules are these that they might not win?
1585889;1482171640;ben_vulpes;also this 'win' is baked into how the blockchain works.
1585890;1482171647;BingoBoingo;Lesson of latest initial sync in progress, things that were milestone last time this year are but one further year of blocks away from completion
1585891;1482171650;asciilifeform;well not per current trb!
1585892;1482171662;ben_vulpes;aha tru
1585893;1482171665;asciilifeform;current trb, by default, nails down the early (300k?) blox
1585894;1482171666;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough..
1585895;1482171666;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
1585896;1482171667;mircea_popescu;mats us ambassador in manilla sleeping with a buttplug.
1585897;1482171696;ben_vulpes;i do not see this 'win' as bugful.
1585898;1482171709;ben_vulpes;perhaps, though, 'grandfathers pistols' problem rears its head here.
1585899;1482171723;ben_vulpes;but that the thing won't lan-mine is abhorrent imho
1585900;1482171733;ben_vulpes;and the checkpoints are at the root of that by my read.
1585901;1482171744;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: sometimes 'grandfather's pistol' problem is complicated when it becomes evident that grandfather never actually shot anyone with his pistol
1585902;1482171752;asciilifeform;and no one has any idea whether it even fires
1585903;1482171755;ben_vulpes;also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
1585904;1482171765;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you can use jurov's viewwe
1585905;1482171767;asciilifeform;*viewer
1585906;1482171769;asciilifeform;i do
1585907;1482171783;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's not that ; the guy was the architect of the dept of state's most recent and most embarassing failure.
1585908;1482171787;ben_vulpes;not only is there state smattered everywhere but it's inscrutably altered by who even knows what when
1585909;1482171795;asciilifeform;e.g., http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=mapBlockIndex
1585910;1482171800;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i too, on occasion.
1585911;1482171806;ben_vulpes;more frequently i just regenerate my tags file.
1585912;1482171821;mircea_popescu;this absolutely requires smarter guy on the usg side shot. and there will be some shooting. thing is there's not that many competent dudes on us side.
1585913;1482171837;*;ben_vulpes off again, chiral train operation
1585914;1482171974;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585887 << it is very wrong, on the level of braindage wrong, to imagine that there can be such a thing as an ex post facto choice.
1585915;1482171974;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
1585916;1482172003;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.
1585917;1482172015;mircea_popescu;if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.
1585918;1482172019;mircea_popescu;no.
1585919;1482172022;mircea_popescu;it isn't a choice.
1585920;1482172064;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585903 << you can also use ctags that comes with emacs. you do "ctags -e -R ." in the root of codebase, and then M-. will take you to the definition. (M-. first time will ask you for the tags file, which will be in the root of codebase)
1585921;1482172064;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
1585922;1482172065;mircea_popescu;yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.
1585923;1482172080;asciilifeform;well presently trb nodes ~aren't~ operating strictly on 'race to the swiftest', they have the ancient checkpoint thing.
1585924;1482172093;mircea_popescu;this is true.
1585925;1482172102;asciilifeform;where history happened a certain way and blocks <300k or what it was, are physically unorphanable
1585926;1482172119;asciilifeform;just as how the genesis is hardcoded.
1585927;1482172160;asciilifeform;btw the checkpoints were certainly not there against martians with infinitely fast miner, but against more elementary syncing-node-mitm.
1585928;1482172166;asciilifeform;which remains as simple today as it ever was.
1585929;1482172173;mircea_popescu;yep.
1585930;1482172225;asciilifeform;so it is not obvious that 'race -- to the swiftest' is correct answer, anyone who can stuff a node into a solipsist cave, can replay time and orphan early blocks, if there is nothing like 'checkpoint'.
1585931;1482172283;asciilifeform;the real question is whether any type of checkpointing is really a permanent pill against this.
1585932;1482172300;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/democrats-attempt-to-threatenbribe-electors-in-bid-to-stop-the-great-again/ << Qntra - Democrats Attempt To Threaten/Bribe Electors In Bid To Stop The Great Again
1585933;1482172300;asciilifeform;a mitmer has, theoretically, ~infinite~ time to munge any particular block of his choice
1585934;1482172304;asciilifeform;regardless of difficulty
1585935;1482172332;mircea_popescu;race is to the swiftest ~and~ idiots must die.
1585936;1482172336;asciilifeform;so he picks today's, say. and so what if he needs entire year to come up with an orphanator for it. a year from now -- he can feed it to 'in a cave' victims.
1585937;1482172341;asciilifeform;and they WILL eat.
1585938;1482172342;mircea_popescu;there is no provision made to rescue the node that can be stuffed in dark alley
1585939;1482172349;mircea_popescu;just like woman who permits this deserves all the cum she gets.
1585940;1482172359;asciilifeform;afaik it remains to be seen if the 'dark alley' can ever be ruled out.
1585941;1482172374;mircea_popescu;that has ~nothing to do.\
1585942;1482172386;asciilifeform;(or rather, whether there can be such a thing as a mechanical test for 'am i in an alley')
1585943;1482172392;mircea_popescu;there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law
1585944;1482172438;mircea_popescu;anyway ; checkpoint does exactly nothing to solve the problem. it is more in the same vein of feel good cure, like "mace" spray.
1585945;1482172467;asciilifeform;quite possibly
1585946;1482172468;mircea_popescu;except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.
1585947;1482172477;asciilifeform;incidentally, recall the blockchain-in-maskrom ?
1585948;1482172481;mircea_popescu;well not yet anyway.
1585949;1482172482;mircea_popescu;aha.
1585950;1482172490;asciilifeform;at what point can one produce the rom ?
1585951;1482172496;asciilifeform;if 'any' block is theoretically subject to revision.
1585952;1482172500;mircea_popescu;once bitcoin's finished.
1585953;1482172508;asciilifeform;and of what use it'd be then
1585954;1482172516;mircea_popescu;exactly.
1585955;1482172578;asciilifeform;it still isn't clear to me what'd be lost by considering, e.g., blocks that happened a proper, physical year ago, not-in-rom.
1585956;1482172584;asciilifeform;or rather, in rom
1585957;1482172587;mircea_popescu;anywya, getting back to mats ' thing, i find it truly amazingthat the ustards actually have the unmitigated audacity to try and rhodesia turkey.
1585958;1482172607;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nothing, really.
1585959;1482172675;asciilifeform;well theoretically it does violate the 'thou shalt neither add, nor subtract' thing
1585960;1482172695;mircea_popescu;how you store the blockchain is your decision
1585961;1482172703;mircea_popescu;it being your node.
1585962;1482172719;asciilifeform;yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
1585963;1482172721;mats;i wonder what excitement is left in the days remaining to current potus
1585964;1482172754;mats;stir the shit-pot real good, mebbe disrupt .ru-.tr-.ir talks
1585965;1482172755;mircea_popescu;yeah srsly.
1585966;1482172837;mircea_popescu;the stakes are pretty high, us itself is trying to pivot to an ir middle east. doesn't look like they have enough non-retards in the whole foreign service to pull it off, but hey.
1585967;1482172876;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585879 << mats, lemme get this straight, i'm supposed to believe that obummer DIDN'T sign off on every round in that pistol? and exactly why?
1585968;1482172876;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
1585969;1482172887;asciilifeform;from whence this 'presumption of innocence' for usg scum.
1585970;1482172895;mircea_popescu;it's certainly an us assassination job.
1585971;1482172907;mircea_popescu;i dun think anyone disputes that.
1585972;1482172922;mats;is your joke-bit still flipped to 'off'
1585973;1482172923;mircea_popescu;if you're even vaguely familiar with the victim it's pretty evident.
1585974;1482172957;asciilifeform;mats: it's flipped to 'spoke with kako in past month' gear, still, takes a while to move it
1585975;1482172977;asciilifeform;https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2016-12-13_Too_Cool_for_PGP.html << elsewhere in monkeystan
1585976;1482172987;mats;you, me, might literally be Hitler if we take ourselves too seriously
1585977;1482173232;asciilifeform;also wtf is 'OpenPGP'
1585978;1482173250;asciilifeform;(other than the rfc)
1585979;1482173309;asciilifeform;http://openpgp.org/software <<< aaaah apparently not only koch liquishit but 'here pick from this long list of shitwares, ALL GREAT!111'
1585980;1482173316;mircea_popescu;anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr
1585981;1482173316;mircea_popescu;iers, except maybe one in china sea. at which point obama may or may not launch the nukes.
1585982;1482173365;mircea_popescu;so actual man made global warming by jan 15th is a respectable 1% or somesuch as it stands right now.
1585983;1482173419;mircea_popescu;if anyone wants to evacuate to ba i'll get you a place to stay.
1585984;1482173455;asciilifeform;eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid
1585985;1482173480;asciilifeform;for 1st time since hitler got his new flat
1585986;1482173485;asciilifeform;or when.
1585987;1482173495;mircea_popescu;not really how that game is played. argentina is an entirely agricultural shithole, nukes go after industry.
1585988;1482173504;asciilifeform;in american grid
1585989;1482173506;asciilifeform;naturally.
1585990;1482173551;mircea_popescu;the russkis are prolly going to double-tap anyway owing to fears of "who knows, maybe the dysfunctional shielf works".
1585991;1482173611;mats;nice knowing you guys
1585992;1482173620;mircea_popescu;*thumbsup*
1585993;1482173649;mircea_popescu;would tmsr again.
1585994;1482173680;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-assasinated/ << Qntra - Russian Ambassador To Turkey Assasinated
1585995;1482173707;BingoBoingo;<a111> Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform << Qntra is available
1585996;1482173774;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo  Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş
1585997;1482173783;mircea_popescu;the turks released dataz.
1585998;1482173830;BingoBoingo;ty
1585999;1482173910;BingoBoingo;fxd
1586000;1482173929;mircea_popescu;uh he's in custody.
1586001;1482173992;BingoBoingo;fxd again
1586002;1482174028;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/fP5Ce >> 'Trump’s insistence on channeling Putin’s propaganda may reflect a more permanent and creepier mindset that refuses to see Russia as a foe of the West. If the latter, how far will this go — blocking sanctions? Acceding to Russian aggression? The suspicion that Trump is Putin’s lapdog has cast a shadow over his secretary of state nominee, who is distinguished only by his chumminess with Putin.' << t
1586003;1482174028;asciilifeform;he 'national security' caste is shitting bricks
1586004;1482174042;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo that members of various the various states' college of electors < since we're on it
1586005;1482174061;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1586006;1482174076;mircea_popescu;but the truth is, this is perfect time for trump to rid himself of the best and brightest of the "progressive" nigger set.
1586007;1482174080;mircea_popescu;have the russians shoot them.
1586008;1482174096;*;mircea_popescu recalls roman emperor who did this exact thing, had an uncharacteristically smooth rule thereafter.
1586009;1482174116;BingoBoingo;fxd x3
1586010;1482174146;asciilifeform;his obummeristic majesty sits on throne for another month.
1586011;1482174154;mircea_popescu;this matters less than you'd think.
1586012;1482174195;BingoBoingo;How many days did it take te world to got to shit following Franz Ferdinand?
1586013;1482174203;mircea_popescu;the sad truth of the matter is that the us has spent the past few decades giving most initiative away. the fate of the world is not significantly decided in washington at the present time.
1586014;1482174235;mircea_popescu;the ~entire thing is just how much the chinese want to and can convince the russians that significant and sufficiently humilatory concessions will be forced out of the us side so they forego actually taking scalps.
1586015;1482174393;mircea_popescu;and as per http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" ; rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally ; or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.
1586016;1482174628;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the death of the 'fat consumer' system is not optional, it's an exponential/runaway growth hallucinatory nonsense. the lizard deindustrialization program is in re the ~controlled demolition~ of same.
1586017;1482174657;asciilifeform;such that the bricks fall on designated untermenschen when possible.
1586018;1482174682;mircea_popescu;this is the most generous interpretation.
1586019;1482174774;asciilifeform;let's have the less generous one? for education
1586020;1482174784;mircea_popescu;anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.
1586021;1482174799;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the less generous one is as set out in "apple could buy russia"
1586022;1482174817;asciilifeform;'apple' already tried to 'buy russia' in '41.
1586023;1482174869;asciilifeform;it'll try again, again, why not, why should, from its pov, dirty orcs lord over 200-300 additional years of nonrenewables.
1586024;1482174872;mircea_popescu;we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.
1586025;1482174935;mircea_popescu;be that all it may, the ~correct~ reaction is strictly http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-133.333-133.381
1586026;1482174967;mircea_popescu;deindustrialization dun enter into this ; de-"personalization" as personhood is currently misrepresented in the west however - does.
1586027;1482175018;asciilifeform;meanwhile, 'An Army major general has been stripped of his stars and forced out of the military after a 30-year military career because of a long extramarital affair and "swinger" lifestyle. An Army spokesman says Maj. Gen. David Haight was demoted by three steps to the rank of lieutenant colonel, a steep and rare downgrade for a senior officer. The demotion will cost him more than $40,000 in annual retirement pay, based on pay scale
1586028;1482175018;asciilifeform;s for a lieutenant colonel and a two-star general with 30 years in the Army. And it slams the door on what was once a promising career. Army Secretary Eric Fanning approved the board's recommendation and made the final decision. The spokesman was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke anonymously.'
1586029;1482175055;mircea_popescu;who the fuck cares who some guy fucks ffs.
1586030;1482175062;asciilifeform;evidently d00d drank a bit too much, dropped some loose lips re heiling tritler or such.
1586031;1482175091;asciilifeform;nobody cares until 'must have problems'
1586032;1482175120;mircea_popescu;http://christianfighterpilot.com/2016/08/29/army-major-general-david-haight-fired-for-who-he-loves/ << of course trump can undo it :)
1586033;1482175579;asciilifeform;in other monkeystans, 'Joanna Palani, a 23-year-old Danish woman, was facing a 6-month prison sentence after fighting alongside Kurdish peshmerga forces in Iraq and Syria, The Local reported. Palani had her passport confiscated last year after she returned to Denmark, and was hit with a one-year travel ban, for violating the nation's so-called "foreign fighter" rules. The regulations were aimed at stopping Danish citizens from joinin
1586034;1482175579;asciilifeform;g terror groups, but could punish people who fight on the other side, according to analysts. ... “How can I pose a threat to Denmark and other countries by being a soldier in an official army that Denmark trains and supports directly in the fight against the Islamic State?” she wrote on Facebook after officials took her passport. The potential 6-month prison sentence stems from the travel ban violation. Palani admitted to traveli
1586035;1482175579;asciilifeform;ng to Qatar in June and was detained last week...'
1586036;1482175590;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585962 <<< in this case there's quite a few other ways in which the can fuck you
1586037;1482175590;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 18:38 asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
1586038;1482175612;asciilifeform;davout: besides the point
1586039;1482175622;mircea_popescu;notrly.
1586040;1482175637;asciilifeform;davout: see the mitm point further down in the thread. a ~simulated~ yottahash is just as good for the purpose.
1586041;1482175641;mircea_popescu;one who comes with magical unicorn alternative can not thereby pretend to invalidate the rest of the magical unicorn implications.
1586042;1482175679;asciilifeform;it isn't magical in any sense, you and i can do it right now -- e.g., mine an alternate block #300,000 and feed it to a cornered node.
1586043;1482175688;mircea_popescu;the cornering is magical.
1586044;1482175696;davout;asciilifeform: bitcoin makes no guarantees that you'll be fine if *all* your peers are compromised
1586045;1482175706;mircea_popescu;yes, i'm aware various magicks are readily transmutable.
1586046;1482175717;ben_vulpes;davout: this is the 'sybil' thread, yes?
1586047;1482175717;asciilifeform;show me the guaranteed noncornered node.
1586048;1482175736;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you proceed from this very strange place. nobody owes you any guarantees.
1586049;1482175747;mircea_popescu;nor can you extract guarantees. there's no guarantee stamped on gravitaqtion iether.
1586050;1482175770;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dunno about you, but my nodes are blackholed more often than not.
1586051;1482175776;asciilifeform;and i have nfi what, if anything , is to be done about it.
1586052;1482175779;davout;ben_vulpes: today's thread?
1586053;1482175785;mircea_popescu;your life, in ALL its respects - !!!!IMPORTANT!!! NOT IN SOME RESPECTS YOU AGREE TO !!!!IMPORTANT!!! - is not certain.
1586054;1482175790;asciilifeform;noshit
1586055;1482175796;mircea_popescu;so then what are you talking about.
1586056;1482175812;asciilifeform;about entirely feasible attack on real-life nodes..?
1586057;1482175820;mircea_popescu;show me this feasibility.
1586058;1482175825;mircea_popescu;see, now we have the burden on the right side.
1586059;1482175872;ben_vulpes;davout: no, ancient one
1586060;1482175885;davout;ben_vulpes: then no :)
1586061;1482175897;ben_vulpes;aok
1586062;1482175900;asciilifeform;it is in re the earlier gedankenexperiment. say trb operators stuck to the 'grandfather's pistol' principle entirely, and kept no record, other than current copy of blockchain, of the past. no checksums, etc.
1586063;1482175910;mircea_popescu;magical type 3
1586064;1482175921;asciilifeform;?
1586065;1482175922;mircea_popescu;listen, randomly transmuting the magical unicorn into magical octopi etc isn't going to work.
1586066;1482175928;mircea_popescu;i am aware magic readily transmutes.
1586067;1482175929;asciilifeform;where is the 'magical' ?
1586068;1482175943;mircea_popescu;in the memorylessness.
1586069;1482175962;asciilifeform;it's a thought experiment ! of course it contains a counterfactual. no one afaik is dumb enough to actually do this.
1586070;1482175977;mircea_popescu;but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.
1586071;1482175979;asciilifeform;which was my only argument - that it would be stupid.
1586072;1482176000;mircea_popescu;if you do this - you may not anymore deny the other implications of magical unicorn. such as you know, someone eating jam and shitting whole plums.
1586073;1482176087;asciilifeform;somebody ( ben_vulpes ? ) ~did~ advance the argument that if martian lands and has enough hash, and wants to use it to orphan block # 2, he ought to be able to and we ought to live with the result, iirc.
1586074;1482176217;mircea_popescu;that's broadly the idea - "mommy, what should i do if johnny wants to plug my virgin ass ?" "don't let him ?" "what if i can't ?" "you can" "what if magical alien from afar comes and he has magical powers and i really can't ?" "oh, no, HIM you spread for."
1586075;1482176245;asciilifeform;as i understand, mircea_popescu objects , that this is an imaginary solution to the quadratic, that there is no physically plausible scenario that follows this path.
1586076;1482176267;mircea_popescu;this whole "humans are inferior ; aliens come ; but humans still manage to somehow" is rank nonsense, not how things play out, nor how things should play out, nor how anyone wants them to play out.
1586077;1482176289;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, i complain that you construct a problem that necessarily may not have a solution.
1586078;1482176291;ben_vulpes;aight so i can drop checkpoints.cpp then?
1586079;1482176306;asciilifeform;well yes, in the literal martian scenario, 'what do i do if a shell hits my trench?' 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around'
1586080;1482176315;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.
1586081;1482176319;mircea_popescu;this is still the correct thing.
1586082;1482176324;ben_vulpes;ah
1586083;1482176328;ben_vulpes;i recall now
1586084;1482176334;mircea_popescu;let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
1586085;1482176338;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: add '--solipsist' and be done with it..?
1586086;1482176351;asciilifeform;or mircea_popescu's method.
1586087;1482176356;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: checkpoints.cpp really grates
1586088;1482176364;asciilifeform;(except fuck the idiot blockheaders thing! hash entire fucking blocks)
1586089;1482176368;mircea_popescu;yes.
1586090;1482176383;mircea_popescu;it should be implemented as full block hashes.
1586091;1482176393;asciilifeform;the 'headers' thing is abominable.
1586092;1482176408;mircea_popescu;even that aside - there's no "propagation" excuse in this usecase.
1586093;1482176409;asciilifeform;and it is quite regrettable imho that it cannot be entirely bulldozed in bitcoin as it is.
1586094;1482176425;mircea_popescu;don't sweat it alf, eventually there will be a fork.
1586095;1482176526;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586084 <<< "show user checksums on demand so he can burn the system down if it doesn't match" sounds sufficient to me
1586096;1482176526;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
1586097;1482176534;trinque;isn't this another http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578431
1586098;1482176534;a111;Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
1586099;1482176536;asciilifeform;^
1586100;1482176552;asciilifeform;sorta where i wanted to go with 'shiva', gimme a console
1586101;1482176555;asciilifeform;where i can query ALL state
1586102;1482176557;asciilifeform;of running node.
1586103;1482176565;asciilifeform;every single fucking flag, variable, whatever.
1586104;1482176579;asciilifeform;if i want to know where tx # .... is --- let's have it.
1586105;1482176584;asciilifeform;none of this 'last six digits' nonsense.
1586106;1482176594;mircea_popescu;also works.
1586107;1482176597;asciilifeform;if i want to flush the mempool, ditto.
1586108;1482176603;asciilifeform;flush motherfucking mempool.
1586109;1482176603;davout;asciilifeform: have you tried bitcoin-ruby?
1586110;1482176607;*;davout ducks
1586111;1482176609;mircea_popescu;lol
1586112;1482176619;asciilifeform;none of this ~everything-linked-to-everything~ tumour mass plox.
1586113;1482176624;asciilifeform;davout: what's it do
1586114;1482176667;asciilifeform;davout: chances are there is a crackpot pseudoimplementation of bitcoin in every language, cobol, malbolge, befunge, by this point. they are of 0 interest because not trb !
1586115;1482176686;asciilifeform;why would i give half a fuck what some rando thinks bitcoin is !
1586116;1482176701;asciilifeform;(or worse: wants me to think that it is!)
1586117;1482176713;trinque;davout: troll not the poar alf
1586118;1482176727;asciilifeform;nah but srsly as if i did not know about crackpot clients
1586119;1482176742;asciilifeform;iirc there was even a ~decent one (as far as anyone could tell) in python, in 2012
1586120;1482176759;asciilifeform;and another in some proprietary D-like language used at google
1586121;1482176763;asciilifeform;and possibly else.
1586122;1482176773;davout;these were 'decent' ?
1586123;1482176774;asciilifeform;there was a curated list of these at one time
1586124;1482176778;*;trinque ran the golang one for a long time
1586125;1482176792;asciilifeform;davout: 'decent' in the sense of having no ~obvious~ catastrophic bomb
1586126;1482176806;trinque;worked fine; I move deedbot to trb to lean on trb
1586127;1482176814;trinque;*moved
1586128;1482176827;davout;asciilifeform: aha, like 'a decent thai whore' ?
1586129;1482176832;asciilifeform;exactly as.
1586130;1482176848;asciilifeform;it is the sad peculiarity of life of the programmer that a proggy 'works perfectly' -- until not
1586131;1482176875;davout;it's by no means peculiar
1586132;1482176883;mircea_popescu;wife, same.
1586133;1482176891;davout;an airplane flies until it doesn't
1586134;1482176902;trinque;my arse, also.
1586135;1482176935;asciilifeform;davout: i recently enjoyed a very old b00k on pilot mistakes
1586136;1482176938;asciilifeform;was quite enlightening.
1586137;1482176978;mircea_popescu;i recently enjoyed a very credible thai whore. it was quite unsettling ; i never felt so much like i'm fucking a little boy in my life.
1586138;1482176996;davout;'human factors' is a thing
1586139;1482177003;asciilifeform;programming would perhaps be a similarly honourable profession as piloting, with similar calibre of people, if only it were possible to kill yourself just as easily with mistreated computer as with airplane.
1586140;1482177012;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ergonomics!11111
1586141;1482177029;trinque;speaking of killing yourself, the db design for trb deserves *long* thought
1586142;1482177031;mircea_popescu;what ergonomics ?!
1586143;1482177040;trinque;there are endless abominations that can arise on that path otherwise
1586144;1482177041;mircea_popescu;trinque aha.
1586145;1482177048;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you wouldn't sit in a kindergartener's chair, wouldja
1586146;1482177057;mircea_popescu;kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.
1586147;1482177075;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hm i hadn't considered this. you mean the tiny girls are for tiny guys ?
1586148;1482177078;davout;asciilifeform: i'm interested in the title
1586149;1482177101;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the dimensional tolerance is , in practice.
1586150;1482177119;asciilifeform;but the 'boy' comment suggests that it is finite.
1586151;1482177136;mircea_popescu;and i have nfi how anyone fucks these 100lb, tits smaller than mine twists. anyway.
1586152;1482177160;davout;trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?
1586153;1482177166;asciilifeform;davout: 'Вам - взлет!' (Анатолий Маркович Маркуша.) it's a childrenz' b00k
1586154;1482177176;mircea_popescu;davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.
1586155;1482177181;asciilifeform;davout: about, yes, piloting. with, yes, how pilots die.
1586156;1482177198;trinque;davout: ad hoc crapping together database features as needed gets you the last round of idiot fad databases
1586157;1482177203;trinque;mongo et al
1586158;1482177227;trinque;one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...
1586159;1482177251;davout;trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"
1586160;1482177277;mircea_popescu;holy fuck no.
1586161;1482177286;asciilifeform;trinque: it is not clear that any feature set aside from 'get anything by anything-else in O(NlogN)' is necessary or justified.
1586162;1482177297;trinque;because I don't always know what the fuck I want!
1586163;1482177303;trinque;just predicates I want to apply
1586164;1482177304;asciilifeform;and guess where THIS IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED
1586165;1482177306;asciilifeform;:
1586166;1482177311;asciilifeform;your disk fs !
1586167;1482177317;asciilifeform;any of'em. even ext3.
1586168;1482177327;trinque;I could not disagree more
1586169;1482177328;davout;if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?
1586170;1482177331;mircea_popescu;me repeats bitcoinfs in his corner.
1586171;1482177346;trinque;davout: apparently so
1586172;1482177352;asciilifeform;trinque: what can, e.g., reiserfs, not do, that you need done to your tx index ?
1586173;1482177356;mircea_popescu;davout the objection, to be clear, is that too much maintenance. that's the true cost here.
1586174;1482177384;davout;what's "too much" ?
1586175;1482177385;asciilifeform;the mega-win from 'use files on disk, in directories' is that i can explore the index with sed, grep, etc.
1586176;1482177397;asciilifeform;instead of relying on gigantic binary turd and dedicated toolset.
1586177;1482177419;trinque;please to not argue against things I have not said.
1586178;1482177423;asciilifeform;(does anyone understand why i put, e.g., 'v', together, the way i did? or the lamportron?)
1586179;1482177434;davout;asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
1586180;1482177441;trinque;the relational model is not impossible to implement
1586181;1482177441;asciilifeform;trinque: i promise not to argue until you say exactly what needs doing that cannot be done with stock fs
1586182;1482177444;trinque;I didn't say link sqlite
1586183;1482177463;mircea_popescu;davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
1586184;1482177463;mircea_popescu;you add 50 hours of b, so you made a very bad trade-off.
1586185;1482177469;asciilifeform;davout: not dedicated. and arguably if you're using an os 1000 yrs from now that doesn't have exact equivalents of these tools, you have serious problems
1586186;1482177475;trinque;asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain
1586187;1482177481;mircea_popescu;in the case of most modern bright minds, b is "hidden" under the rug and so they don';t think correctly about their environment
1586188;1482177483;trinque;or I go cache it somewhere and that is stupid
1586189;1482177484;asciilifeform;trinque: this is a physical impossibility
1586190;1482177488;asciilifeform;of course you can't do it!
1586191;1482177504;trinque;that is a trivial SQL query over transactions
1586192;1482177507;mircea_popescu;which is why no english-speaking, quora-and-stackexchange, wikipedia-and-tedtalk "entrepreneur" can create value.
1586193;1482177518;asciilifeform;trinque: it's still O(N)
1586194;1482177522;asciilifeform;think for a minute
1586195;1482177528;asciilifeform;how could it not be
1586196;1482177538;trinque;again, do not argue against what I have not said!
1586197;1482177546;trinque;you will implement indexes yourself, and so on
1586198;1482177558;mircea_popescu;trinque if you manage to get alf to not do that, let me know what you did.
1586199;1482177559;trinque;and then vast mountain of already researched space put together poorly
1586200;1482177570;asciilifeform;trinque: it remains O(N), and yes, you can reduce your N, but you traded away correctness for speed.
1586201;1482177579;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586179 << certainly not ; i can read sed.
1586202;1482177579;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
1586203;1482177583;asciilifeform;a full, canonical 'how much is this addr worth' requires O(N) chain walk.
1586204;1482177591;asciilifeform;always will.
1586205;1482177614;trinque;not if you have a reliable index that can find every reference to that address
1586206;1482177639;asciilifeform;trinque: if you write how to do this, i give you my word that i will read .
1586207;1482177642;mircea_popescu;trinque you will have to store NlogN data ; and n is like tb
1586208;1482177662;asciilifeform;and answer cannot be 'sql command'
1586209;1482177670;asciilifeform;i meant - ~algorithmically~ how.
1586210;1482177696;mircea_popescu;!~calc 10**12 * log(10**12)
1586211;1482177702;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 10**12 * log(10**12) = 1.1999999999999998E13
1586212;1482177719;mircea_popescu;lulzy.
1586213;1482177725;mircea_popescu;!~calc 10**12 * ln(10**12)
1586214;1482177731;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 10**12 * ln(10**12) = 2.7631021115928547E13
1586215;1482177756;mircea_popescu;somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.
1586216;1482177763;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586183 <<< are you saying that relational storage is nice, but has the high indexing cost? or am i completely amiss?
1586217;1482177763;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
1586218;1482177784;asciilifeform;btw, p=?=np esoterica aside, 'never say never' in re algorithmic complexities. it is possible to make a number-theoretic 'blockchain' where you check for unspentness by euclid's gcd, for instance. many things are theoretically possible. but this thread afaik is about traditional bitcoin.
1586219;1482177784;mircea_popescu;davout completely amiss. if you try to rubify this, you will end up with the kubinetes situation. "nobody knows how this works".
1586220;1482177791;trinque;I would not create indices for every transaction
1586221;1482177796;trinque;I'd have it run along indexing mine
1586222;1482177801;mircea_popescu;the reason we want ~one~ is that we don't want to find we can't maintain two.
1586223;1482177826;trinque;-or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this
1586224;1482177827;mircea_popescu;trinque my comment is re a more general case, not just txn, because i am confident you'll end up stuck with a more general problem in practice.
1586225;1482177834;trinque;reasonable
1586226;1482177845;mircea_popescu;the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./
1586227;1482177858;davout;aok, you were referring to the 'pluggable' part, not the 'relational' part
1586228;1482177867;mircea_popescu;davout aye verily.
1586229;1482177981;mircea_popescu;this is the very important point here - every feature in the toolchain makes programming easier but ~everything else~ (generally here referred to "fit in head" but easily expanded to writing correct tests, maintaining, even KNOWING WHAT BLEW UP when something blows up!) much much harder
1586230;1482177995;mircea_popescu;and the differential is in fact so immense and not even linear, that restrained toolset is huge gain.
1586231;1482178008;mircea_popescu;in spite of making first-pass coding utter pain.
1586232;1482178025;asciilifeform;the algo where you 'wallet' by keeping privkey AND index-of-last-block-where-this-addr-was-input-or-output are kept around, works until , in 'typical human' fashion, [l]user asks for 'fried ice', and wants MOAR, e.g., 'oooh i found a privkey in my underpants drawer, how much is it worth' or 'i want to keep priv on 2+ boxes' or, or.
1586233;1482178070;mircea_popescu;and that's just scratching the tipsurface.
1586234;1482178075;asciilifeform;well yes.
1586235;1482178083;asciilifeform;simplest example that ~everyone is personally familiar with.
1586236;1482178092;mircea_popescu;ayup.
1586237;1482178110;davout;a valuable advantage of relational storage is that *the user decides* what to index
1586238;1482178128;asciilifeform;davout: in point of fact you can decide on fs also
1586239;1482178129;davout;"want to import arbitrary keys? cost 5tb of index"
1586240;1482178134;asciilifeform;by choosing a different fs to plant the thing on
1586241;1482178135;mircea_popescu;the problem with this is that it's not really open to his decision. see something like "user decides what checksum" is eminently user-able.
1586242;1482178144;mircea_popescu;but "what to index" is like "user decides when to breathe"
1586243;1482178145;asciilifeform;having the db hardlinked in bitcoin is lunacy
1586244;1482178145;mircea_popescu;noty.
1586245;1482178156;asciilifeform;it does not belong in there.
1586246;1482178173;asciilifeform;how to arrange bytes on hdd, is why we even tolerate the misery of having an os, to begin with.
1586247;1482178180;asciilifeform;so that different proggies can use same disk turds.
1586248;1482178195;asciilifeform;for entirely different, and unplanned, things.
1586249;1482178204;davout;hence pluggable interface
1586250;1482178208;mircea_popescu;this much is true. it's also not really the part in dispute.
1586251;1482178221;asciilifeform;davout: pluggable ~without bitcoin having to know about it~ is the key.
1586252;1482178239;davout;sure, no argument here!
1586253;1482178241;trinque;this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things; I would call it a db.
1586254;1482178259;trinque;it's just a question of how much OS you want to eat, and all is a fine answer
1586255;1482178298;mircea_popescu;and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs.
1586256;1482178335;mircea_popescu;trinque not only that, but anything other than all is kinda indefensible in practice.
1586257;1482178343;asciilifeform;the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.)
1586258;1482178364;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform bitcoinfs ends up with bitcoin-hdd-firmware.
1586259;1482178487;asciilifeform;if it must -- it will.
1586260;1482178511;mircea_popescu;the expectation ot make an os and not have to write drivers is the sweet sort of innocence usually reserved for coed sluts.
1586261;1482178521;asciilifeform;not same as hdd fw omfg
1586262;1482178535;mircea_popescu;right.
1586263;1482178575;mircea_popescu;writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
1586264;1482178614;asciilifeform;btw if anyone can come up with a WORKING 'crab' (realtek) nic driver in pure long mode asm, we can have, e.g., scheme on iron, and usefully so, in a couplea weeks.
1586265;1482178651;asciilifeform;i wasted... dun even care to say how long. on this chore.
1586266;1482178653;asciilifeform;with 0 result.
1586267;1482178667;mircea_popescu;didja ask the finn ?
1586268;1482178667;davout;i'm still not convinced that the relational approach is not the correct one, as far as an arbitrary inspectable DB is required
1586269;1482178686;mircea_popescu;how would you be convinced ?
1586270;1482178686;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: most folks run for the hills when i say 'yes in asm, and no you don't get to use any existing code'
1586271;1482178696;trinque;davout: idea is that these querying tools could as well use reiserfs or another as the "disk data format"
1586272;1482178698;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but did you ask the fin.
1586273;1482178699;asciilifeform;and i'm pretty sure it came up when the finn was here. he vanished.
1586274;1482178709;trinque;as say pg has whatever it shits into /var/lib/postgresql/data
1586275;1482178711;mircea_popescu;dude...
1586276;1482178713;mircea_popescu;ask the fucking fin.
1586277;1482178724;asciilifeform;how am i to ask him, lol, he disappeared.
1586278;1482178733;mircea_popescu;he left an email or something iirc.
1586279;1482178736;*;asciilifeform digs for d00d's mailbox.
1586280;1482178772;mircea_popescu;but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".
1586281;1482178812;davout;did we just add tmsr-db on the todo?
1586282;1482178820;asciilifeform;btw i dug out, long ago, a crackpot implementation in one 'baremetal os' (actual title) of supposedly-it. it dun work on any actual iron i was able to buy.
1586283;1482178822;mircea_popescu;was there since long ago.
1586284;1482178829;asciilifeform;and i bought a dozen cards of various vintage.
1586285;1482178834;davout;right
1586286;1482178877;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io
1586287;1482178884;asciilifeform;so they are of 0 interest to me.
1586288;1482178890;asciilifeform;(e.g., the one in linux. or bsd. or mac.)
1586289;1482178891;mircea_popescu;more or less.
1586290;1482178895;mircea_popescu;hence my comment re fw above.
1586291;1482178904;asciilifeform;i studied the one in coreboot
1586292;1482178908;asciilifeform;it ALSO DOES
1586293;1482178912;asciilifeform;yes, the pxe boot rom.
1586294;1482178914;mircea_popescu;it would.
1586295;1482178918;asciilifeform;has whole motherfucking os.
1586296;1482178922;asciilifeform;megatonne of 'idiomatic c'
1586297;1482178925;asciilifeform;rubbish.
1586298;1482178926;mircea_popescu;think for a moment what immense pile of varying switches the other approach would be like.
1586299;1482178946;asciilifeform;it'd be a few 100 lines of asm
1586300;1482178950;asciilifeform;particular, yes, to the card.
1586301;1482178957;mircea_popescu;to work on all the consumer
1586302;1482178964;mircea_popescu;right. lol. not what coreboot tries to do.
1586303;1482178964;asciilifeform;i actually got hold of msdos driver
1586304;1482178965;asciilifeform;for netware.
1586305;1482178970;asciilifeform;believe or not, for a card made in 2011.
1586306;1482178978;asciilifeform;it was the closest thing to what i want.
1586307;1482178994;asciilifeform;now must reverse it. will take a while, and only can even begin when hands again are free to do this
1586308;1482178997;asciilifeform;(and when?!)
1586309;1482179019;asciilifeform;it is in, yes, 16bit asm.
1586310;1482179068;mircea_popescu;heh
1586311;1482179076;asciilifeform;one problem with asciilifeform in particular is that his patience with x86 crapola has become very short
1586312;1482179085;asciilifeform;a younger d00d like, e.g., trinque , might get more result.
1586313;1482179098;trinque;this younger dood already has a pile of ppc
1586314;1482179100;trinque;:p
1586315;1482179108;asciilifeform;well it doesn't have to be trinque .
1586316;1482179112;trinque;but yes, am learning amd64 asm currently.
1586317;1482179124;asciilifeform;but somebody who isn't walking with years of radiation damage from reversing x86 for money.
1586318;1482179130;mircea_popescu;we need moar younger... actually , moar younger women plox.
1586319;1482179136;asciilifeform;^
1586320;1482179158;asciilifeform;trinque: if it isn't megaseekrit, where'dya get a hold of a ppc ?
1586321;1482179165;asciilifeform;or is this a vintage box
1586322;1482179168;trinque;loads on ebay
1586323;1482179172;asciilifeform;aaah
1586324;1482179177;trinque;I've been buying lots of mac mini g4
1586325;1482179186;asciilifeform;neato
1586326;1482179201;asciilifeform;for a while, local uni surplus here was selling g5 monsters (big iron things) by the pound
1586327;1482179214;asciilifeform;boxes that cost 3-4k usd new, in mid 2000s, going for pennies
1586328;1482179221;asciilifeform;(crapple dropped all support)
1586329;1482179222;trinque;yeah, I've got one of those guys sitting here too
1586330;1482179227;trinque;and an xserve on the way
1586331;1482179240;asciilifeform;neato
1586332;1482179253;asciilifeform;pick up some old sgi iron, if doing this, it has even better bang/buck ratio
1586333;1482179266;asciilifeform;i saw an 'origin' sold once, for price of scrap, and it worked
1586334;1482179302;trinque;kk
1586335;1482179310;asciilifeform;of course this all comes with a very real risk of turning into theo de raadt and moving into a cave, muttering, wearing hair shirts, sleeping in coffin
1586336;1482179315;asciilifeform;but perhaps -- worth it
1586337;1482179350;mircea_popescu;teh republic will have to commit to in some manner providing lifeline for above.
1586338;1482179364;mircea_popescu;because there's no functioning religion without a strong ascetic line.
1586339;1482179398;asciilifeform;i will send potatoes! and old microchannel NICs!!111
1586340;1482179406;trinque;lel
1586341;1482179407;asciilifeform;(pretty sure i ~still~ have 1 or 2...)
1586342;1482179437;*;mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
1586343;1482179470;asciilifeform;i have 2 dec alphas that are available to my l1 for cost of postage.
1586344;1482179471;trinque;huh, maybe I start an armory :)
1586345;1482179472;asciilifeform;if anyone needs.
1586346;1482179505;mircea_popescu;trinque i am saying - depending on exactly what one's life goals etc are ; running a warehouse full of old iron bought on the cheap is a very reasonable lifestyle choice.
1586347;1482179513;asciilifeform;(both, iirc, circa '04 or so)
1586348;1482179553;davout;computer sommelier position still not filled
1586349;1482179555;mircea_popescu;certainly a LOT more saner than "prepper" idiots storing canned food etc.
1586350;1482179563;mircea_popescu;THAT's what im gonnafucking want, canned peaches. ffs.
1586351;1482179584;*;trinque will have a monthly buy of this and similar till doomsday
1586352;1482179587;trinque;*til
1586353;1482179589;asciilifeform;davout: there can be >1. in fact, if we're ever down to 1, it is trouble.
1586354;1482179602;trinque;what am I going to do, buy fucking US stocks?
1586355;1482179634;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1586356;1482179659;*;trinque has at least two phrases branded on his mind by the republic
1586357;1482179665;trinque;"You could've been better anywhere else."
1586358;1482179671;trinque;and "cannot be had for any price"
1586359;1482179706;mircea_popescu;heh. i can see it.
1586360;1482179996;mircea_popescu;https://archive.is/dfGeO#selection-224.0-243.15 << lulziest fucking shit
1586361;1482180031;mircea_popescu;also an ~incredible~ point in case of how ustardian brain damage actually works. the very idiots that advertise captcha breaking... use captcha!
1586362;1482180785;asciilifeform;i think that is the longest list of spampaypals-and-demonstratively-not-bitcoin i've seen since 2009.
1586363;1482180803;*;asciilifeform read it several times, thinking 'probably missed it...', and.
1586364;1482180828;asciilifeform;dafuq is, e.g., 'giropay'
1586365;1482180839;asciilifeform;or 'pay-easy'
1586366;1482180849;asciilifeform;or the dozen hieroglyphic crapolades.
1586367;1482180863;asciilifeform;what is a 'weemoney' ?
1586368;1482180867;asciilifeform;pay with jars of piss ?
1586369;1482180879;asciilifeform;(or was it a 'b')
1586370;1482180902;asciilifeform;who has heard of 'bleue' ? can pronounce without gagging?
1586371;1482180936;*;asciilifeform reads on, in sidebar, 'Dec 13: For your Bitcoin payments, remember that we need the Coinbase transaction ID in order to track your deposit. We encourage you to write down that ID to avoid delays in your Bitcoin payment processing. Thanks for your comprehension.'
1586372;1482180958;asciilifeform;they take ~only~ coinbase?!
1586373;1482181031;trinque;http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-truck-idUSKBN148287 << moar bowling for cucks
1586374;1482181743;mircea_popescu;lol
1586375;1482184313;shinohai;When your security track record is so bad, you can't even secure your forums: http://archive.is/2nvH2
1586376;1482184363;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/german-truck-attack-stikes-market-in-front-of-kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church/ << Qntra - German Truck Attack Strikes Market In Front Of Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church
1586377;1482184567;mircea_popescu;lol
1586378;1482184933;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/adobe-releases-first-linux-flash-player-update-in-4-years/ << Qntra - Adobe Releases First Linux Flash Player Update In 4 Years
1586379;1482186603;ben_vulpes;entirely unrelatedly to anything else, does trb's `getmemorypool' actually work?
1586380;1482187950;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i, for one, do not know the answer
1586381;1482188025;ben_vulpes;i think that i just crashed my node asking for the memory pool.
1586382;1482188094;ben_vulpes;either that or blackhole?
1586383;1482188144;asciilifeform;post log?
1586384;1482188261;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YmlTD/?raw=true
1586385;1482188273;asciilifeform;^ obscure box with ssh on nonstandard port
1586386;1482188279;asciilifeform;persistent little bugger.
1586387;1482188379;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: will
1586388;1482188931;*;danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342
1586389;1482188931;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 20:30 mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
1586390;1482189654;pete_dushenski;hanbot: right you are, my dear. thank you for being the proverbial alert reader! 2016 year-in-review now updated to include resolution of courts circus competition.
1586391;1482189762;pete_dushenski;shinohai: l0l!!
1586392;1482189794;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/president-elect-trump-passes-270-votes-in-state-electoral-colleges-is-once-again-president-elect/ << Qntra - President Elect Trump Passes 270 Votes In State Electoral Colleges, Is Once Again President Elect
1586393;1482189820;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working
1586394;1482189820;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
1586395;1482189909;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: doesn't force-load either ?
1586396;1482189924;asciilifeform;(standard linux kernel won't load mods that aren't versioned for it. unless 'forced')
1586397;1482189963;danielpbarron;from my very limited understanding, something was changed in the kernel that the driver was expecting to be there
1586398;1482189982;danielpbarron;something about symbols
1586399;1482189983;asciilifeform;something other than version?
1586400;1482190087;asciilifeform;or hm, lemme guess, MTRR
1586401;1482190095;asciilifeform;( http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=2baa891e42d84159b693eadd44f6fe1486285bdc )
1586402;1482190098;danielpbarron;that sounds familiar
1586403;1482190144;danielpbarron;4.1.35-gentoo is what i had to go back to
1586404;1482191998;asciilifeform;in recent orlolz, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/12/brain-parasite-gonna-eatcha.html
1586405;1482195048;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586388 << ideally more of a lend-lease sort of deal than simply warehousing the parts though.
1586406;1482195048;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 23:08 danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342
1586407;1482195093;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586393 << this is actuyally a very valid complaint ; i'm not necessarily proposing the finn's right.
1586408;1482195093;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 23:23 danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working
1586409;1482195171;mircea_popescu;random fun fact : no matter how you turn the ~50bn worth of us resources & materiel shipped to the allies in ww2 into "present day shitollars", it still doesn't come ANYWHERE NEAR what the defeat in the middle east cost.
1586410;1482195821;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the notion that russia was at some point popular in the ukraine is utterly insane. when was this exactly, i don't get it, before or after the muscovy went to space ?
1586411;1482196098;asciilifeform;which ua
1586412;1482196104;mircea_popescu;ua.
1586413;1482196138;asciilifeform;the one full of ukrs? or the other one, that wasn't even any colour of ukr whatsoever until idiot hruschev redrew the map.
1586414;1482196148;mircea_popescu;you know, the original russians, before the mongols came, flattened them and some random upstarts in some ravine further up north found themselves about in the position of argentina in 1950.
1586415;1482196165;mircea_popescu;well he says ukraine, i don't imagine he means sevastopol.
1586416;1482196180;asciilifeform;these expired some time around ivan 4.
1586417;1482196198;mircea_popescu;(obviously what he's trying to do is speculate the cluelessness of english speakers, but whatever, we already know the guy's an utter shithead.)
1586418;1482196528;danielpbarron;mircea_popescu, what do you mean lend-lease?
1586419;1482196565;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron i mean that if some guy who is actively developing for some iron is shying away from buying a piece because he only has part of the money i'd consider cutting a deal.
1586420;1482196638;mircea_popescu;especially if a) the piece is actually useful as opposed to curio and b) it's being sold for scrap by the imperial idiots.
1586421;1482196994;asciilifeform;though i can think of a few exceptions ( transport for, e.g., cray, or connection machine - and yes, i knew a d00d whi bought connection machine! is not easy or cheap ) -- generally old hardware of the interesting sort ( vs everybody's old 386 ) is cheap
1586422;1482197009;asciilifeform;and in most cases still readily had.
1586423;1482197030;mircea_popescu;there is no such thing as "cheap" in business.
1586424;1482197047;asciilifeform;there is 'cheap' in the junk business.
1586425;1482197053;asciilifeform;which is what subj is
1586426;1482197082;asciilifeform;and yes, cheap today, unobtainable tomorrow.
1586427;1482197088;mircea_popescu;no, i mean the kind of cheap you're talking about, "oh, soy is cheap and gold is expensive". volumes scale, soy is sold in the ton and gold in the ounce. there's no "cheap" ; if it's 20 a pop you bundle 1k together.
1586428;1482197124;mircea_popescu;"pogo is cheap" no it's not, i'm not buying one.
1586429;1482197148;asciilifeform;( most famously, smbx lispm was findable for a few hundy during a very brief burst when amex flooded the market with theirs, which had been replaced with java shitware )
1586430;1482197206;mircea_popescu;that's exactly what i mean. when that happens.
1586431;1482197253;asciilifeform;'cheap' in the antique comp business means in practice 'everyone who wants, has'. as, e.g., 'commodore 64', vs, say, lispm.
1586432;1482197315;asciilifeform;no shortage of one; while the other showing up on ebay in qty==1 is 'world' news...
1586433;1482197446;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1B818C00C15B84948FE638F6B6807D375844F2FFB3CD6F5DE491197ECA2E46E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2396...6649 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.18.75.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.18.75.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SK KI)
1586434;1482197446;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/511D245CC07601CF0039D42DB5CAF4B37B9D40851F889F0A8C126563C0E7C906 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2274...5573 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.124.187.244 (ssh-rsa key from 123.124.187.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 11)
1586435;1482197446;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3506CFEBD2F41FA56B9A44F2C08E057D0F546A6D7330DB32905442CF2121BCB5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1586436;1482198098;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice. << there was a whole public discussion on this at the time.  and at that point, i backed away from it.
1586437;1482198244;mircea_popescu;mod6 got al ink ?
1586438;1482198527;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3506CFEBD2F41FA56B9A44F2C08E057D0F546A6D7330DB32905442CF2121BCB5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1586439;1482198527;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D2ADEF66CA1D7DF8DA07A26BBEE139A66EFEF7D6442471B5BA8512210D1A576F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.17.185 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.17.185 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1586440;1482199226;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs. << aha
1586441;1482199270;mod6;<+asciilifeform> the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.) << would be great to start experimenting with this in '17
1586442;1482199286;mircea_popescu;word.
1586443;1482199317;mircea_popescu;tbh, if the "hdd" is correctly constructed (out of ssds, blockchain is the killer problem for ssds) then it should be so fucking fast...
1586444;1482199339;mircea_popescu;and no, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with "buy 64 ssd drives and raid them".
1586445;1482199363;mod6;<+davout> did we just add tmsr-db on the todo? << there is a ticket for this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/trb_tickets.html#6
1586446;1482199398;*;asciilifeform uses ssd raid
1586447;1482199418;asciilifeform;it's the correct way to use'em
1586448;1482199434;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but a raid controller that is made-for-our-purpose, and part of the whole stack all the way to db...
1586449;1482199442;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> mod6 got al ink ? << i'll dig it up once im caught up here...
1586450;1482199446;mircea_popescu;kk
1586451;1482199455;asciilifeform;worx even with ancient controllers.
1586452;1482199460;mircea_popescu;im sure it does.
1586453;1482200223;mod6;ok here's one part:
1586454;1482200223;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174421
1586455;1482200223;a111;Logged on 2015-06-24 18:31 mod6: ascii_field: re: checkpoints: the patch worked fine to remove checkpoints, but it was tabled for the time being.  the main discussion around this was that it could be helpful to hvae checkpoints in there to prevent spamming of blocks from timestamps before a checkpoint.
1586456;1482200236;mod6;and it kinda continues from there, so worth a bit of a read
1586457;1482200311;mod6;which i guess was all in response to alf's question just above: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408
1586458;1482200311;a111;Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
1586459;1482200477;mod6;also, iirc around the same time there was much ado about the wedge @ 168`001 or whatever it was... but that turned out to be the database locking issue.
1586460;1482200480;mircea_popescu;mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion.
1586461;1482200486;mircea_popescu;aha.
1586462;1482200563;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion. << aha, now i recall.  I think the suggestion was that one could, from a config file, turn checkpoints on or off, or add new ones if they wished.
1586463;1482200580;mod6;lemme see if I can dig that part up too.
1586464;1482200617;mircea_popescu;well, it was more like "should be exposed to user, WHAT checkpoint to use". ie same as here.
1586465;1482200712;mod6;yeah. ok, it merits a ticket in the project.
1586466;1482200744;mircea_popescu;prolly mature enough by now i guess. anyway shouldn't be a huge thing.
1586467;1482200778;mod6;fair enough.
1586468;1482200837;mod6;!%help
1586469;1482200924;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586446 << i think you mentioned before, but you had some sikrit hardware raid that you were reasonably happy with? i've been doing some cleanup on my data, throwing out old usb drives and such, i've been meaning to replace software raid (which is ... spotty) with something that i don't have to think about
1586470;1482200924;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 02:03 asciilifeform uses ssd raid
1586471;1482200933;asciilifeform;phf: 3ware
1586472;1482200971;phf;thanks
1586473;1482200996;mod6;!%a trb F "Configure Checkpoints by Configuration File" "Allow for a user to set a given checkpoint within a configuration file.  See discussion: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586436"
1586474;1482201031;mod6;!%p trb 34
1586475;1482201033;tb0t;Project: trb, ID: 34, Type: F, Subject: Configure Checkpoints by Configuration File, Antecedents: , Notes: Allow for a user to set a given checkpoint within a configuration file.  See discussion: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586436
1586476;1482201050;mod6;alright, good enough for the moment.
1586477;1482201166;*;mod6 is still working on a public/private project-a-tron, making decent progress.
1586478;1482202963;asciilifeform;unrelated, and of 'historical' interest, http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/yoke.jpg << first FUCKGOATS slave yoke test, from last week.
1586479;1482203001;asciilifeform;(the fat connector is a chained jtag for handy simultaneous reflash of both yoked units)
1586480;1482203096;asciilifeform;the loose-hanging wires - were attached to logic analyzer, which had to visit bench in other room when this pic was taken.
1586481;1482203146;asciilifeform;btw if anyone knows where one might buy breadboard bigger than this, i'm all ears.
1586482;1482203149;asciilifeform;afaik they don't exist.
1586483;1482204971;asciilifeform;in other olds, http://trilema.com/2015/open-parasitic-p2p-relay/#comment-120120 .
1586484;1482206604;mircea_popescu;o hey.
1586485;1482206641;mircea_popescu;mod6 nice!
1586486;1482207031;mircea_popescu;dude check them out they deliver 19k mah out of a 100g package.
1586487;1482207525;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, it is lovely, a FUCKGOATS rng board could run for year+ on one.
1586488;1482207546;mircea_popescu;pretty cool
1586489;1482207546;asciilifeform;and the bugger runs a-ok at -55C.
1586490;1482207555;asciilifeform;which afaik no other battery does.
1586491;1482207571;mircea_popescu;yeah just great.
1586492;1482207603;asciilifeform;funnily enough, at my first paying jerb i used up dozens of these batteries, electric pipette ran on'em, and i had nfi why they were interesting other than 'bitch to get'
1586493;1482207629;asciilifeform;(why the 'rainin' pipette ran on them, i have nfi to this very day, ask the french not me)
1586494;1482207672;asciilifeform;oh huh, looks like mettler toledo bought'em
1586495;1482208378;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1B818C00C15B84948FE638F6B6807D375844F2FFB3CD6F5DE491197ECA2E46E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1525...4857 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.18.75.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.18.75.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SK KI)
1586496;1482208378;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/511D245CC07601CF0039D42DB5CAF4B37B9D40851F889F0A8C126563C0E7C906 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1354...0297 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.124.187.244 (ssh-rsa key from 123.124.187.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 11)
1586497;1482210348;mircea_popescu;!!up ser
1586498;1482210348;deedbot;ser voiced for 30 minutes.
1586499;1482210379;ser;This is cool https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/12/19/security-alert-12192016-ethereum-org-forums-database-compromised/
1586500;1482210394;mircea_popescu;twas on qntra earlier
1586501;1482210409;ser;Sorry o missed it :)
1586502;1482210473;ser;Ether's a real definition of crap
1586503;1482210493;mircea_popescu;apparently.
1586504;1482210499;ser;But he made a fortune
1586505;1482210513;ser;Sarlatan of bits
1586506;1482210867;mircea_popescu;i'd be surprised if he made much more than living expenses.
1586507;1482210930;ser;I'm sure he's some ether
1586508;1482210935;ser;http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/mobile-phones-cars-block-ban-moving-vehicles-government-technology-a7483871.html
1586509;1482211131;ser;Life style category :) :)
1586510;1482215268;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> twas on qntra earlier << Nah, shinohai dropped link and loled but no submission was found yet
1586511;1482215290;BingoBoingo;And so a log laugh
1586512;1482215378;BingoBoingo;!!up ser
1586513;1482215379;deedbot;ser voiced for 30 minutes.
1586514;1482216111;ben_vulpes;https://freenode.net/news/PSA-brief-update-infra << 'sekuridee measures have been instigated!' oh good thanks exactly what i want, a riot in the dc
1586515;1482216146;ben_vulpes;also holy shit what lolz the meatwot doth provide: http://stemtosteam.org/
1586516;1482216183;ben_vulpes;"we just can't handle the notion of a space where some people's suckitude is actually a barrier to their self-identification as 'a part of a thing'"
1586517;1482216303;ben_vulpes;not that STEM even is salvageable from the imperial ruins, riddled with nsa stoolies like koch, overfitters like mann and the entirety of 'social sciences'
1586518;1482216355;ben_vulpes;in which vein: http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/vaop/naam/pdf/pr2016261a.pdf
1586519;1482216366;ben_vulpes;crime 1: n = 43 (i am /so/ impressed)
1586520;1482216383;ben_vulpes;crime 2: isn't this actually evidence that poor hispanics drug their kids more than anything else?
1586521;1482216424;ben_vulpes;(potential) crime 3: 'study' appears to entirely omit 'control group'
1586522;1482216472;ben_vulpes;which puts anyone involved with Nature specifically and US 'STEM' in general in line for the noose
1586523;1482216486;ben_vulpes;masquerading as science, good grief.
1586524;1482216780;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586383 << http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/XDTr8/?raw=true ; note that i use the wrong command `getmempool' (line 8587), and that my rpc command of `getmemorypool' doesn't show up at all in the log, but some thirty seconds after the bogus `getmempool' the blackhole symptoms kick in
1586525;1482216780;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 22:55 asciilifeform: post log?
1586526;1482217890;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/20/intolerance-to-modernity/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Intolerance to modernity.
1586527;1482234186;trinque;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R15NKrGrb3c << made it halfway through contravex before switching to watching these
1586528;1482234490;trinque;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUyLC8Gcjw << when Houston does it, we take out 3 lanes
1586529;1482235317;trinque;incidentally pete_dushenski, my brother was having the same sort of reaction. in his case, it was tetracycline for acne (you know, instead of being unamerican and laying off the fast food) having nuked his gut flora.
1586530;1482235481;trinque;GOTTA CLEAN THE TAINT
1586531;1482239934;mircea_popescu;btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ?
1586532;1482240426;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes seems trivial to separate stem from social "sciences", women's "studies" etc. plenty of avenues available, too, like "deny all female access" or "no science without scientific method" or so forth.
1586533;1482240752;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes is that paste on your binary star ?
1586534;1482240894;davout;if someone is interdasted in buying the balance of 	13UUaGK8ZDLxjY7RYu2bKEabqjww2KDyxD by wiring EUR to Bram Molenaar's ICCF lemme know
1586535;1482240974;mircea_popescu;"You like vim? Donate to Bram Molenaar in BTC and help kids in Uganda" da fuck is this then
1586536;1482241156;jurov;davout: i can help.  you can't wire eur easily anymore?
1586537;1482241179;davout;mircea_popescu: what about it?
1586538;1482241211;davout;jurov: the less i use my euro stuff the better :D
1586539;1482241244;jurov;davout: on popescuplanet, children are beaten and raped, not being sent money, this is new for you?
1586540;1482241253;mircea_popescu;davout meanwhile intel provided me with https://archive.is/7FtyJ
1586541;1482241279;mircea_popescu;jurov dude may i just not know everything to the level of l0 cache here for a minute!
1586542;1482241308;davout;mircea_popescu: takes ages to load, i'm 33 and what is this
1586543;1482241329;mircea_popescu;some tardstalk thread where you were trying to support the google / ex-vim's guy charity.
1586544;1482241332;mircea_popescu;back in 2013 or such
1586545;1482241385;davout;yeah that's me! i recognize that avatar's smug smile
1586546;1482241415;jurov;davout: pm
1586547;1482241432;mircea_popescu;i thought it was some gypsy who lost a finger through the unlikely avenue of filling a caravan full of papier-mache flowers and then using gasoline for lube when fucking his 16yo wife.
1586548;1482241435;davout;the goal was "let's have the dude put a BTC address on vim's splash screen directly", which obviously went nowhere
1586549;1482241452;davout;mircea_popescu: could match me too
1586550;1482241461;davout;except for the fingers i guess
1586551;1482241534;mircea_popescu;myeah. if you absolutely want comment i'd point out that wtf "charity", the guy on the ground in uganda isn't even in the wot ; and wtf arrogant google developers shouldn't be entertained, but really there's no problem with trying and whatever.
1586552;1482241558;mircea_popescu;it's funny how the actually useful stuff, such as "put the fucking bitcoin address on google's homepage already, you dork!" somehow "accidentally" never fucking happens.
1586553;1482241567;davout;yeah
1586554;1482241579;davout;precisely why i wouldn't do it again
1586555;1482241623;mircea_popescu;i'm rather independently VERY soured on "donation" to the idiot parade.
1586556;1482241645;mircea_popescu;other than the openbsd turpitude you may recall the blender idiocy etc.
1586557;1482241719;davout;i remember the openbsd thing but not the blender one
1586558;1482241734;mircea_popescu;i suppose it isn't to be a surprise that in a world where the doctor expects you to pay him for him to do what ~he~ feels ; and the lawyer is strictly shocked that his position as counsel is STRICTLY to do all the legwork you don't feel like doing and absolutely not to do any of the cool management stuff, cuz you're paying and you're gonna be eating that - the charity dudes similarly expect nsa oodlebunches of moneyz
1586559;1482241820;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174506 << whole discussion.
1586560;1482241820;a111;Logged on 2015-06-24 21:05 mircea_popescu: punkman because a) when i first asked, their idea was "buy a mug" ; b) the link i finally fished out did not include any reference either i or fluffypony found (see it in logs) - they have A DIFFERENT unlinked page for this purpose
1586561;1482241828;davout;ty
1586562;1482241881;mircea_popescu;tl;dr : me uses blender for eulora, originally wanted to work with the blender people, and as a "first gesture" sorta thing tried to make a donation. blender people turned out even more batshit insane than anyone could have imagined, which resulted in smg deciding to fork blender and not support their idiotic foundation
1586563;1482241903;mircea_popescu;this a few months before they decided to only support python 3, showing the soundness of that strategic decision.
1586564;1482241952;mircea_popescu;this exactly mirrors me using planeshift code for eulora, did token gesture towards planeshift people, they be EXACTLY as idiotic as blender people in exactly the same way, so as a result /me is having the code refactored and will not work with them
1586565;1482241995;mircea_popescu;and in general this exactly mirrors everything - we tried to work with gpg turns out gpg doesn't want to work, not WITH anyone, it actually does not want to work, at all. ditto for the ssh. ditto for everyone and everything.
1586566;1482242024;mircea_popescu;so technically jurov is right : i'll burn down this uganda and make a new one, fuck 'em. this pretense of independent existence everyone keeps trying to put up is sickening to me.
1586567;1482242086;mircea_popescu;oh yes - chased the freenode idiots for year + back in 2012/2013 trying to give them servers. they - EXACTLY LIKE THESE OTHER IDIOTS - to the fucking t, never got the servers. then a few months later were "suspiociously hacked" and "will publish report" then neverp ublished any report and then went full nsa, which is where we're now.
1586568;1482242147;mircea_popescu;in short, it's not that the stupid whore gets fucked by this bad smelly bully all the time. it's that they're married, and she regularly chooses him. and they'll have to burn together, there's no rescuing to be done in this film.
1586569;1482242191;davout;that's pretty clear.
1586570;1482242256;mircea_popescu;that said, /me wishes teh very best to the actual ugandan children. oppressed as they find themselves under hermetically sealing, thick and numerous layers of dedicatedly-imbecile adults, it'd be a wonder if anything comes of them. but - all the better for all those who do make it in such conditions.
1586571;1482243332;mircea_popescu;and in perhaps unrelated lulz : last year, the romanian supreme court struck down the "because the company filed a criminal complaing against the employee" cause for terminating employment. yeah, you read that right. the reason given was that due to social importance blabla, employment ~must be protected from arbitrary decisions~.
1586572;1482243341;mircea_popescu;which is the whole fucking thing : these people do not want to exist.
1586573;1482251282;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ? << yah, im trying to dig this up now actually.
1586574;1482251312;mod6;meanwhile, i stumbled across this SoBA that references the tabling of the checkpoints patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000041.html
1586575;1482251360;mircea_popescu;aha
1586576;1482251559;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/ << Trilema - What lasts forever ?
1586577;1482251946;mod6;i think i found it.
1586578;1482251952;mod6;!%p trb 33
1586579;1482251954;tb0t;Project: trb, ID: 33, Type: F, Subject: Possible DB Replacement with UNIX Filesystem, Antecedents: , Notes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561093
1586580;1482251974;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561093 << I believe it starts here
1586581;1482251974;a111;Logged on 2016-11-01 02:04 mircea_popescu: happy bday mod6
1586582;1482252070;mircea_popescu;that';s it mod6
1586583;1482255024;mircea_popescu;https://web.archive.org/web/19980610100009/www.redherring.com/mag/issue55/economics.html << in other lulz, krugman calling out marc andreessen & friends for being frauds and failures.
1586584;1482255186;asciilifeform;'The raw power of computers has advanced at a stunning speed, but has this advance translated into a comparable improvement in their usefulness? Word processing, to take the most obvious example, hasn't fundamentally improved since the late '80s. And in the view of many people I know, WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS was actually better for their purposes than any of the bloatware that has followed.'
1586585;1482255194;mircea_popescu;ye know ?
1586586;1482255198;asciilifeform;aha.
1586587;1482255201;mircea_popescu;apparently this is obvious even to the pope of usgistan
1586588;1482255213;asciilifeform;popes are, on some level, people also, theoretically.
1586589;1482255231;mircea_popescu;or in other words, the stupid gun is directional.
1586590;1482255233;asciilifeform;catch'em off the clock -- they'll talk.
1586591;1482255234;asciilifeform;aha.
1586592;1482255517;mod6; funny
1586593;1482255588;mircea_popescu;incidentally - nothing is said about how marc andreesseen had to be rescue-married into old wealth to maintain the pretense of relevancy cca 2006 ; nor how zuckerberg's ~only noteworthy initiative (free basics, trying to turn the third world web into a sort of apple store) utterly failed, rejected EVEN BY INDIA
1586594;1482255616;mircea_popescu;or in general, by the piles and piles and piles of failures of this utterly failed generation.
1586595;1482255818;mircea_popescu;anyway, selected butthurt from a flury of whining from back in 2014 when icahn told the fatso a few things : https://archive.is/jLZ1Z
1586596;1482256108;asciilifeform;failed generation, or ran out of corpse to eat..?
1586597;1482256132;mircea_popescu;it ~never had a corpse to eat, it sucked its own dick for as long as that lasted.
1586598;1482256163;mircea_popescu;that's what makes it a failed generation, after all.
1586599;1482256310;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski the latest bit is easily your best piece yet. people generaly hated because yes, throughout the lenghty process you sounded ~like every other jew boy reading the torah for bar mitzvah, ie, ridiculous. but insistence pays off, and now i dun have to groan when reading your stuff, which is a welcome change indeed.
1586600;1482256657;BingoBoingo;Aha, pete_dushenski you now write like a genitle!
1586601;1482257091;pete_dushenski;aww shucks
1586602;1482257206;*;mircea_popescu also stumbled on recent comment section reading it,  apparently there's a whole debate etc.
1586603;1482257433;pete_dushenski;if you mean the latest mpex debate as referenced in 'what lasts forever', ya the leclerc (pankkake?) feller and i had a little back-n-forth
1586604;1482257442;mircea_popescu;ya
1586605;1482257468;mircea_popescu;eh get out of there, it's prolly marc andreesseen being all typically-fatso.
1586606;1482257518;*;asciilifeform pictures him resembling baron harkonen in david lynch's film of 'dune'
1586607;1482257523;pete_dushenski;heh sure why not. but i love when old blog posts still stir the pot. it's even more satisfying than when the hot-off-the-presses sheets light some pubes on fire.
1586608;1482257562;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski top 3 on trilema this month consists of something from 2012 and something from 2010 + the internet census. so... yeah.
1586609;1482257613;mircea_popescu;“unpracticed in liberty, unschooled in self control, never sobered by the discipline of self support, never established in any habit of prudence… insolent and aggressive, sick of work, [and] covetous of pleasure.” << heh.
1586610;1482257628;pete_dushenski;trinque: that houston truck looks like it was headed either to or from a gulf refinery. pretty sweet assplosion. and ya, gotta ditch the ff!
1586611;1482257630;mircea_popescu;applies to the nigger of today precisely, at that.
1586612;1482257651;pete_dushenski;woodrow wilson : a man ahead of his time.
1586613;1482257713;pete_dushenski;accordingly, exactly like shakespeare, there are 'movements' to remove wilson from names of ivy league buildings.
1586614;1482257725;pete_dushenski;iirc a mural of him was covered up but name of building stayed.
1586615;1482257733;mircea_popescu;heh
1586616;1482257744;mircea_popescu;what use have pigs for cigars.
1586617;1482257761;pete_dushenski;nostril plugs i imagine
1586618;1482257792;pete_dushenski;like clarkson's tampons (a reference only ben_vulpes make catch)
1586619;1482257803;pete_dushenski;may*
1586620;1482258073;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: internet census is right up there eh ? the irony of that one little study making such a dent in a world awash in 'data' and 'research' where n=43 is otherwise sufficient grounds for public policy decisions... never fails to amus.
1586621;1482258075;pete_dushenski;e
1586622;1482258103;mircea_popescu;~everyone said the same thing "holy shit this is detailed".
1586623;1482258124;mircea_popescu;it's not even detailed ; but at least it's not idiocy on the level of nature mag science mag etc.
1586624;1482258282;pete_dushenski;compare and contrast the time inputs too : 4 years x 4 researchers = 12 page report (vs) .0003 years x 2 researchers = 12 page report.
1586625;1482258307;pete_dushenski;that's self-directed republican efficiency for you
1586626;1482258361;pete_dushenski;!~calc (0.0003*2)/(4*4)*100
1586627;1482258363;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: (0.0003*2)/(4*4)*100 = 0.00375
1586628;1482258432;pete_dushenski;0.004% of the time input for the same ~quantity~ of output, nevermind the clearly superior quality, usefulness, applicability to the real world.
1586629;1482258839;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586533 << 'coracle', my battlefield node
1586630;1482258839;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 13:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is that paste on your binary star ?
1586631;1482260020;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski speaking of which - i didn't use "spreadsheets" like the fucking usg tards ( http://trilema.com/2012/law-enforcement-never-fails-to-unintentionally-entertain/ ) or for that matter wordperfect 5.1 ; nor did i have any use for a pdf maker. the whole article came out of an awk and a sort
1586632;1482260065;mircea_popescu;at which juncture it should probably be reminded to the general public that the pmarca schmuck is ... known, let's say, for one of the first ~web browsers~. ie, the shit soup to end all shit soups, exactly like "spreadsheets" and whatnot except to the power of nine thousand.
1586633;1482260127;mircea_popescu;there isn't any space, or any need, or anything else for these fucktards today anymore than there was in 1996 or in 1976. they know it today like they knew it then, and they're lying about it (to themselves, mostly) then as now because they know that's exactly all they can do. who's gonna hire pmarca ? to do what ? who has a job for zuck ?
1586634;1482260128;mircea_popescu;etc.
1586635;1482260176;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes so listen, the important thing here is, have you managed to reproduce the "blackhole" in an isolated system ?
1586636;1482260624;ben_vulpes;nope
1586637;1482260651;ben_vulpes;is there intuition about whether blackholes are attacks or retarded clients?
1586638;1482260693;mircea_popescu;we have no definitive answer on this.
1586639;1482260704;ben_vulpes;didnt think so
1586640;1482260712;mircea_popescu;but in general there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy. for the attack to exist, the client has to be "retarded".
1586641;1482260714;ben_vulpes;i doubt itll show up on solipnet
1586642;1482260746;ben_vulpes;sure, trb shoulda been aborted
1586643;1482260758;mircea_popescu;wait wut
1586644;1482260800;ben_vulpes;but i mean blackholing as artifact of some other poorly written client, instead of script opening sockets to trb nodes
1586645;1482260829;mircea_popescu;yeah. we r not know.
1586646;1482260905;ben_vulpes;mhm
1586647;1482261025;mircea_popescu;anyway, i've been rereading period warnings about myself, it's been rather pleasant.
1586648;1482261227;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586638 << i was able to reproduce a very similar effect. simply throw blocks at a node that don't fail verification until the very end.
1586649;1482261227;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 19:04 mircea_popescu: we have no definitive answer on this.
1586650;1482261244;asciilifeform;(it is idiotically serial and the entire thing locks, won't respond to rpc commands, etc)
1586651;1482261250;mircea_popescu;yes but this doesn't answer if the idiocy is naturally ocurring so much
1586652;1482261322;asciilifeform;it does not.
1586653;1482261335;asciilifeform;wireshark, and a good deal of patience, would answer it.
1586654;1482261342;mircea_popescu;anyway. like you said, seems pretty credible parallelizing will fix this./
1586655;1482261367;asciilifeform;the only boojum is that parallelizing would require removing the locks.
1586656;1482261377;asciilifeform;which potentially changes the semantics of EVERYTHING
1586657;1482261388;mircea_popescu;yes.
1586658;1482261391;asciilifeform;i.e. is the very worst kind of mutilation of 'grandfather's pistol' conceivable.
1586659;1482261402;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, bitcoin 2.0 has no room for this serial nonsense.
1586660;1482261414;mircea_popescu;it's just bad design.
1586661;1482261422;asciilifeform;it is atrocious design, as is the whole thing.
1586662;1482261431;asciilifeform;and very much glued on with broken glass.
1586663;1482261441;mircea_popescu;to think the dork actually claimed he is "slightly more productive on linux than windows". satoshi never fucking as much as saw a posix compliant box.
1586664;1482261746;ben_vulpes;might be interesting to patch trb to dump relevant connection's self-identification string
1586665;1482261766;ben_vulpes;when in blackhole mode
1586666;1482261771;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it'd have to be continuously dumped
1586667;1482261785;asciilifeform;recall, whole thing deadlocks, won't accept any interactive command at all.
1586668;1482261818;mod6;what is meant by 'blackhole mode' ?
1586669;1482261850;asciilifeform;!#s blackhole
1586670;1482261851;a111;53 results for "blackhole", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blackhole
1586671;1482261877;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i mean when the node is running through 'accepted connection' 'socket no message in first 60 seconds'
1586672;1482261891;asciilifeform;mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-19#1327566
1586673;1482261891;a111;Logged on 2015-11-19 20:29 asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0
1586674;1482261894;mod6;im not sure that is helpful... are you discussing how the client just seems to have no peers after some period of time?
1586675;1482261901;mod6;ah, ok.
1586676;1482261909;ben_vulpes;i don't expect to be able to make an rpc call while the node is looping through its list of peers and get 'the right' peer shat out
1586677;1482261936;asciilifeform;mod6: trb isn't multithreaded in the, e.g., apache, sense. it services clients round-robin style, and if it gets stuck at any point, this is what you get
1586678;1482261947;ben_vulpes;mod6: no, the thing where either a shitty network client or some joker opens sockets and lets them expire, eating 60 seconds of the loop through each peer to service
1586679;1482261971;ben_vulpes;during which the node is ~entirely unresponsive
1586680;1482261976;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: not what happens. those get banned quite normally.
1586681;1482261982;mod6;ben_vulpes: aha, gotcha.
1586682;1482261999;asciilifeform;what happens is that it makes ~your~ node sit retardedly instead of talking into socket at appropriate time.
1586683;1482262000;mod6;oh that's not it then asciilifeform?  this is helpful, please continue to describe.
1586684;1482262014;ben_vulpes;what 'makes'
1586685;1482262018;ben_vulpes;and how
1586686;1482262022;mircea_popescu;^
1586687;1482262025;asciilifeform;something that comes down the wire. precisely what, i do not yet know.
1586688;1482262038;mircea_popescu;it's not "a joker doses sockets".
1586689;1482262045;asciilifeform;aha.
1586690;1482262049;ben_vulpes;okok
1586691;1482262062;asciilifeform;the necessary experiment is i think quite obvious and i do not need to describe it in detail.
1586692;1482262071;asciilifeform;but will anyway, just in case.
1586693;1482262077;asciilifeform;first you need a blackhole detector.
1586694;1482262081;mircea_popescu;just keeping track of the binary star is already a huge thing.
1586695;1482262089;asciilifeform;this will consist of a shell script that makes, e.g., getinfo api request, AND
1586696;1482262091;asciilifeform;if it times out !
1586697;1482262095;asciilifeform;then we know. blackholed.
1586698;1482262100;asciilifeform;at the same time, tcpdump is running
1586699;1482262105;ben_vulpes;(or -- processing block)
1586700;1482262116;asciilifeform;so we get a snapshot of the, say, 20 minutes of tcpdump prior to node entering blackhole state.
1586701;1482262116;ben_vulpes;(impossible to differentiate!)
1586702;1482262124;asciilifeform;after a few days of this, we have the culprit.
1586703;1482262151;mircea_popescu;imo this is a total waste of time ; we won't have the culprit even if we drink the gigabyte swamp. which we needn't be drinking in any case.
1586704;1482262166;asciilifeform;whether it is waste of time, is separate question.
1586705;1482262171;asciilifeform;but we would have the culprit, yes.
1586706;1482262185;asciilifeform;and it'd be a few megabyte of swamp
1586707;1482262187;mircea_popescu;myeah. i have no problem with the baruch spinoza approach, esp when eg, dealing with viri etc. but it's not a universal wrench.
1586708;1482262188;asciilifeform;if done as described above.
1586709;1482262232;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the suspicion is you'll be seeing too much variance to be able to say much definitively
1586710;1482262246;mircea_popescu;this butressed on the observation that satoshi code is large and stupidly wrought.
1586711;1482262262;asciilifeform;or conceivably the described bear trap will actually contain a bear at the end of the day.
1586712;1482262266;asciilifeform;cannot be ruled out.
1586713;1482262274;mircea_popescu;indeed.
1586714;1482262454;mircea_popescu;continuing the floundering sv-tech lulz for a moment, there's https://archive.is/Wdiyj
1586715;1482262469;mircea_popescu;practically speaking, the exact equivalent of "putin did wtc"
1586716;1482262474;*;asciilifeform looks at his nodes, and discovers that, sure enough, both are blackholed at this very moment.
1586717;1482262569;asciilifeform;'To Read the Full Story, Subscribe or Sign In' << lel
1586718;1482262577;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: archive.is is paywalled
1586719;1482262628;mircea_popescu;not really missing much.
1586720;1482262642;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/SlwGQ/?raw=true << this is fresh from zoolag. and very typical.
1586721;1482262644;mircea_popescu;whole story is, "fatso is angry at not being as relevant as he thinks he should be"
1586722;1482262658;asciilifeform;we get a block (dulap already saw same block; it was valid.) which simply takes ages to verify.
1586723;1482262679;asciilifeform;while it verifies, the thing sits around being very sad, and ends up losing most of its peers
1586724;1482262693;asciilifeform;(they -- elementarily -- time out)
1586725;1482262748;mircea_popescu;aha.
1586726;1482262761;asciilifeform;what's more, this is a rinse-and-repeat
1586727;1482262770;asciilifeform;when it gets NEXT block, which happens more or less immediately after,
1586728;1482262781;asciilifeform;when it finally gets a peer going again,
1586729;1482262786;asciilifeform;same process repeats.
1586730;1482262788;mircea_popescu;the miners are pushing block complexity to the maximum possible because hey, more fees ; the cost this imposes on the nodes is not to be discussed because hey, fatso thinks he should matter and stuff.
1586731;1482262797;asciilifeform;aha.
1586732;1482262829;mircea_popescu;at the very least block digestion and peering must be cleaved in trb
1586733;1482262852;asciilifeform;plox to elaborate
1586734;1482262886;mircea_popescu;the process that talks to peers has ~no business~ knowing anything about the blocks ; the process which maintains the blockchain, verifies blocks etc has ~no business~ talking to peers.
1586735;1482262912;mircea_popescu;mixing these into a single frail monolith is very much satoshism, but we're not supposed to stick to stupid.
1586736;1482262924;asciilifeform;this doesn't add up to a working btctron. in order to evaluate a peer, it is necessary to be able to distinguish block from rubbish.
1586737;1482262930;asciilifeform;and to do this, you need the entire spittoon.
1586738;1482262947;asciilifeform;ditto tx
1586739;1482262954;mircea_popescu;nope. blockchain part will get to it when it gets to it, and tell you. until then, peer part builds queues.
1586740;1482262958;asciilifeform;you need the entire orchestra to decide whether to accept a tx for relay.
1586741;1482262981;mircea_popescu;the fact that you need the blockchain part to tell you what tx are to be relayed does not reduce to, you must make it to listen to all comers.
1586742;1482263002;mircea_popescu;business has a secretary and an actual worker ; fast food has a front office and a back office. there's reasons for things wtf.
1586743;1482263012;mircea_popescu;bitcoin has a single office, like a fucking bidonville residence.
1586744;1482263027;mod6;!%a trb I "Investigate blackhole" "Investigate what might be occuring with the so-called black-hole, described here: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586635"
1586745;1482263050;asciilifeform;queueing is sane but i will point out that from the other side, a node that doesn't answer immediately because it queued, is not distinguishable from one that doesn't answer because it is spinning wheels on block verification.
1586746;1482263050;mod6;!%p trb 35
1586747;1482263052;tb0t;Project: trb, ID: 35, Type: I, Subject: Investigate blackhole, Antecedents: , Notes: Investigate what might be occuring with the so-called black-hole, described here: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586635
1586748;1482263055;asciilifeform;and either gets dropped by peer.
1586749;1482263058;mod6;all set for now.
1586750;1482263067;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it answers immediately. let's formalize this.
1586751;1482263077;asciilifeform;how can it possibly answer immediately ?
1586752;1482263093;mircea_popescu;b.peer receives items from peers and puts them in received-txn and received-blocks ; both of which are queues.
1586753;1482263131;mircea_popescu;b.blockchain picks up items from received-blocks and verifies them, adding to blockchain if necessary ; picks up items from received-txn, and verifies them, adding to mempool-txn if necessary.
1586754;1482263155;mircea_popescu;if queried, b.peer loads mempool-txn as it is and uses that ; so what if it's stale, fuck you.
1586755;1482263186;mircea_popescu;this way b.peer can always answer something ' and b.blockchain can sanely optimize its queue processing.
1586756;1482263190;mircea_popescu;rather than "do it now!"
1586757;1482263206;asciilifeform;i'll add to this that in trb as we have it, you ONLY need blockchain to verify a potential mempool tx
1586758;1482263212;asciilifeform;and never need other mempool tx.
1586759;1482263216;mircea_popescu;right.
1586760;1482263237;mircea_popescu;anyway. the divorce is required and continuing in the current monolith sheer nonsense.
1586761;1482263239;asciilifeform;but yes, mircea_popescu's algo is The Right Thing
1586762;1482263267;asciilifeform;if unsure, eat tx, can always drop it on the floor later.
1586763;1482263362;mircea_popescu;quite.
1586764;1482263460;mircea_popescu;and you know, sanity suddenly flowers everywhere - do you send too much in bytes/s ? b.peer can can your. do you send too much crap ? b.blockchain can tell b.peer it dun wanna hear from you no mo.
1586765;1482263461;mircea_popescu;etc.
1586766;1482263524;asciilifeform;the one caveat is that this is probably not doable while preserving trb semantics.
1586767;1482263552;mircea_popescu;i suspect it can be done by surgery without the two parts ~even knowing~ they're not satoshi-full-bitcoin.
1586768;1482263565;mircea_popescu;just reallocate the respective pointers mwahahaha.
1586769;1482263571;asciilifeform;well that'd be the definition of 'preserve semantics'
1586770;1482263581;mircea_popescu;right.
1586771;1482263654;asciilifeform;at one time i ran a barbaric experiment where same box would run ~two separate~ instances of trb
1586772;1482263736;asciilifeform;initially idea was that it would be a kind of load balance arrangement, if one were in blackhole state, connections would rout to other. but in the end i did not bother with this, and simply let one hang behind the other, and used the setup simply to observe how 'blackholing' propagates.
1586773;1482263795;ben_vulpes;oh blackholing propagates naturally?
1586774;1482263866;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: in so far as it consists of the block processing delay, as described earlier, it does.
1586775;1482263868;asciilifeform;unsurprisingly.
1586776;1482263897;asciilifeform;(check your own collection of blackhole logs, how many are preceded by a 'received block 0000000....' )
1586777;1482263929;*;ben_vulpes may look sometime
1586778;1482263955;ben_vulpes;i may also need to adjust my log rotator, 1 gig of bitcoind logs is...not actually that much history.
1586779;1482263964;asciilifeform;on my nodes, just about every 'received block...' is followed by a bunch of telltale 'socket closed' from barfing peers
1586780;1482263972;asciilifeform;aaaah see i don't rotate.
1586781;1482263973;asciilifeform;~ever.
1586782;1482263988;asciilifeform;and yes i end up with multi-GB logs. but they are quite informative.
1586783;1482264062;asciilifeform;you can grep your log for 'SetBestChain' also, and likely will find the same thing.
1586784;1482264077;asciilifeform;which is, that simply getting a valid block takes your node out of action for 5-15 min !
1586785;1482264113;ben_vulpes;hm
1586786;1482264132;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you can replicate same effect using 'eatblock'
1586787;1482264143;asciilifeform;as described on the ml (and linked again last night)
1586788;1482264144;ben_vulpes;all of a sudden i want to collect data on how long trb takes to return from a simple getinfo call, per your above protocol
1586789;1482264170;asciilifeform;you will find that it is never less time than it takes to actually verify the block.
1586790;1482264377;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, et al : the pill that would be needed to cure the locks retardation once and for all (and enable, e.g., queueing) while preserving semantics, would be to go through each and every function call in trb and determine if it A) Reads state B) Modifies state C) both D) neither
1586791;1482264390;asciilifeform;if any (C) is found, it must be sliced apart with a knife until there is no (C)
1586792;1482264402;mircea_popescu;just about yes.
1586793;1482264402;asciilifeform;afterwards, anything that contains only (A) can be made lockless
1586794;1482264409;mircea_popescu;but the place to start is the cleavage above.
1586795;1482264416;mircea_popescu;who knows what new wonders we find.
1586796;1482264440;asciilifeform;let's take, concretely, ProcessBlock : http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#1319
1586797;1482264455;asciilifeform;which is where a trb node is actually hanging for 10-50% of a given day.
1586798;1482264460;asciilifeform;depending on how full are blocks.
1586799;1482264469;asciilifeform;it is quite plainly an example of (C)
1586800;1482264521;asciilifeform;i will admit, that i many times sat down to do this.
1586801;1482264536;asciilifeform;and then realized that the resulting patch WILL be 50,000 lines, and the output will look ~nothing like trb, and gave up.
1586802;1482264555;asciilifeform;'patient is not operable.'
1586803;1482264611;asciilifeform;at a certain point, if you attempt the operation, you start to ask 'why is there satoshi crapolade in my bitcoin2.0' rather than 'ooh neato, a repaired trb!'
1586804;1482264665;asciilifeform;picture a farm d00d upgrading from horse plow to tractor, who goes to tractor factory to demand that parts of his freshly dead horse be incorporated into the machine.
1586805;1482265333;BingoBoingo;Leather seats are a thing!
1586806;1482265422;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/former-flint-emergency-managers-face-felony-charges/ << Qntra - Former Flint Emergency Managers Face Felony Charges
1586807;1482265765;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i've ruminated on this as well before
1586808;1482265794;ben_vulpes;kinda think that a bitcoin client is journeyman republican project
1586809;1482265943;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: do you recall and could you cite a line where you talk about folx using ersatz clients, forking and 'fools'?
1586810;1482266107;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: not immediately
1586811;1482266175;ben_vulpes;and i don't recall it well enough to find. alas.
1586812;1482266283;ben_vulpes;is anyone aware of a 'muxing' 'dashboard' for staying abreast of several different clients' opinions of network state?
1586813;1482266332;ben_vulpes;oh hey whaddayaknow, getmemorypool eventually returned
1586814;1482270135;asciilifeform;HOLY FUCK:
1586815;1482270155;asciilifeform;File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/pdfminer/pdfpage.py", line 123, in get_pages
1586816;1482270155;asciilifeform;    raise PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed('Text extraction is not allowed: %r' % fp)
1586817;1482270155;asciilifeform;pdfminer.pdfdocument.PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed: Text extraction is not allowed: <open file ... some derpitude
1586818;1482270158;asciilifeform;this is a thing?!
1586819;1482270167;asciilifeform;and of course, inside, we find:
1586820;1482270176;asciilifeform;        # Check if the document allows text extraction. If not, abort.
1586821;1482270176;asciilifeform;        if check_extractable and not doc.is_extractable:
1586822;1482270176;asciilifeform;            raise PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed('Text extraction is not allowed: %r' % fp)
1586823;1482270184;asciilifeform;author ~wants~ to be boiled in oil..?
1586824;1482270188;trinque;ahaha
1586825;1482270222;asciilifeform;not that this isn't a literally half-second snipsnip.
1586826;1482270224;asciilifeform;but...
1586827;1482270274;trinque;you mayn't remove the fig leaf!1!1!!
1586828;1482270318;asciilifeform;anyway, the relevant lulzbit that spawned this, http://www.pokermira.com/c/ConnectiveGames-RNGEvaluationCertificationLetter1.2.pdf ( http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/QysGU/?raw=true )
1586829;1482270373;asciilifeform;^ 'official certification' of 'trng' of some poker derps, by some purported 'test lab', scrolled through to see what the submitted hardware was, and it... wasn't. it was a list of java src turds and their file hashes!
1586830;1482270512;asciilifeform;i gotta wonder, what the euthor of 'pdfminer' was smoking.
1586831;1482270514;asciilifeform;*author
1586832;1482270519;asciilifeform;why, why.
1586833;1482270547;asciilifeform;and where else in the wonderful world of open sores is there more of this same.
1586834;1482270573;trinque;seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit.
1586835;1482270604;asciilifeform;for some reason the only thing that came immediately to mind is the 'piss_on_patents' flag, or what was it, that you used to have to set on linux box to get mp3 and truetype going
1586836;1482271381;phf;asciilifeform: is that one of those mandatory gaming authority certifications? or a "you can trust our gaming servers, we got an EVALUATION, got checksums and everything"
1586837;1482271435;asciilifeform;phf: to my -- admittedly untrained -- eye, it looks more like those Guaranteed Seeekooore Website!111 certs that various derps used to display
1586838;1482271455;asciilifeform;the ones with the little padlock.
1586839;1482271584;phf;yeah, that's what it looks like. i wonder if in your explorations of state of rng you came across any offical GCB evaluation of casino rngs, i don't know if those would even be public or have technical detail...
1586840;1482271593;asciilifeform;afaik 0 public.
1586841;1482271648;asciilifeform;likewise 'it gave such-and-such statistic' is not very useful from sane people's pov.
1586842;1482271656;asciilifeform;gotta have the complete design.
1586843;1482271679;asciilifeform;otherwise it can just as easily be a device that puts current unix time + salt through aes
1586844;1482271694;asciilifeform;(will score maximal, perfect score, on any statistical test you could possibly want.)
1586845;1482271711;asciilifeform;and anyone who knows the salt - owns you.
1586846;1482271721;asciilifeform;this is elementary but bears repeating occasionally .
1586847;1482271846;asciilifeform;i will also add that tests, for what they're worth, are worth 0 if they are not of YOUR PARTICULAR device which YOU OWN
1586848;1482271858;asciilifeform;this also is apparently not obvious to everyone. but -- true.
1586849;1482271867;phf;i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys
1586850;1482271900;asciilifeform;fwiw (and i may have explained it in the past) FUCKGOATS will work with, e.g., a geiger, or anything else that can supply 1/0 signal
1586851;1482271911;asciilifeform;including a morse button
1586852;1482272128;asciilifeform;given as it is not physically possible to audit an analogue rng in the same sense as one can audit the digital board (i.e. by putting a TB of random through it, and comparing what comes out other end to the expected), i expect that plenty of folks will choose to build their own analogue unit.
1586853;1482272221;phf;that's fair, i think we had a thread, when you first started working on this, with various schemes. "use the optics on your iphone" etc.
1586854;1482272257;asciilifeform;there are 10,000,001 possible schemes, it is not some titanic open problem.
1586855;1482272291;asciilifeform;the difficulty is in making something that can be distinguished, in a spot check, from aes(unixtime+salt), by skeptic.
1586856;1482272365;asciilifeform;also it is strange to suppose that a casino player could take a legitimate interest in the rng of the game machine. it is intrinsically promisetronic, he is stuck taking the house's word for it.
1586857;1482272411;asciilifeform;(in the case of 'provably fair', he can be shown the seed for the prng, but there is NO way for the casino to demonstrate that NO ONE ELSE KNEW it. hence -- just as promisetronic, and now on top of it all braindamage of using prng)
1586858;1482272438;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586803 << you are attempting the wrong operation,  which is the problem. cut where i toldja not where you feelta.
1586859;1482272438;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 20:10 asciilifeform: at a certain point, if you attempt the operation, you start to ask 'why is there satoshi crapolade in my bitcoin2.0' rather than 'ooh neato, a repaired trb!'
1586860;1482272458;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this was in re: your described cut.
1586861;1482272486;mircea_popescu;no, it wasn't, as i don't actually propose any changes to processblock. it can go wholesale in b.blockchain
1586862;1482272511;asciilifeform;looks almost as if it'd be a skin , front end running tcpwise in front of trb node
1586863;1482272516;mircea_popescu;almost, yes.
1586864;1482272542;asciilifeform;'trb condom'
1586865;1482272545;mircea_popescu;patient is indeed not operable in the sense you mean ; but medicine is chiefly a pile of paleatives, not "radical bioreengineering technology"
1586866;1482272564;mircea_popescu;guess what - if you take your allergies to the doctor he will also not cut into every cell and fix your bad dna
1586867;1482272591;mircea_popescu;(yes, all allergies mean one thing - that you're a degenerate fenotype not fit for life. what can you do ? certainly can't go back in time and whack ytour mother to fuck better drunks.)
1586868;1482272688;asciilifeform;'allergen' is broad concept.
1586869;1482272719;mircea_popescu;which is my point here.
1586870;1482272761;asciilifeform;(take, for instance, urushiol. not per se allergenic! but denatures certain protein in skin such that you are your own allergen.)
1586871;1482272768;mircea_popescu;anyway - IF there's ever going to be that "radical bioengineering technology" medicine, it starts exactly in these places. gotta first do the 13yo torah reading work. then can be man.
1586872;1482272770;mircea_popescu;make pistols.
1586873;1482272810;asciilifeform;whole subj, recall began with asciilifeform's request for a literal 'talmud' to take to bed..
1586874;1482272819;mircea_popescu;indeed :)
1586875;1482272838;asciilifeform;btw this is something i've already been doing for ages, bedtime lxr
1586876;1482272847;asciilifeform;(jurov's viewer is ~still~ the state of the art)
1586877;1482272857;mircea_popescu;last i fell alseep on alain delon. holy shit is that period weird.
1586878;1482272871;mircea_popescu;back then, the french were still pretending to be a thing. much in the manner of today's us.
1586879;1482272907;phf;ален делон не пьет одеколон. ален делон пьет двойной бурбон. ален делон говорит по-французски
1586880;1482272931;asciilifeform;lel
1586881;1482272945;mircea_popescu;he did enjoy a period of chuck norris ism in ru did he
1586882;1482273012;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> (take, for instance, urushiol. not per se allergenic! but denatures certain protein in skin such that you are your own allergen.) << But where else could Varnish come from!
1586883;1482273014;phf;well french cinema not being entirely corrupted by imperialism was popular in su, so alen delon got the same treatment as other "anekdot" characters.
1586884;1482273028;phf;/popular/allowed/
1586885;1482273135;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/three-times-as-many-electors-rejected-clinton-than-trump-colin-powell-finally-draws-votes/ << Qntra - Three Times As Many Electors Rejected Clinton Than Trump, Colin Powell Finally Draws Votes
1586886;1482273300;phf;fwiw his purple noon is great, i think it even got the trilema treatment?
1586887;1482273410;mircea_popescu;(as a public service : /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ nʲˈe pʲjˈɵt ɐdʲɪkɐlˈon/ /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ pʲjˈɵt dvɐjnˈoj bɜrbon/ /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ ɡəvɐrʲˈit pəfrɐnt͡sˈuskʲɪ/ )
1586888;1482273506;mircea_popescu;phf possibly not. but yes, not ~entirely~ bad, and as an actor certainly better than whatever dorks available today, so he'd still win a "what do we watch" competition. the period though... ah, ah.
1586889;1482273570;mircea_popescu;fwiw de funes shows the same tragic character, except he's more of an engineer at heart, a great administrator, a sort of fouquet rather than you know, piaf's legionnaire.
1586890;1482273582;mircea_popescu;la zizanie certainly got the trilema treatment.
1586891;1482273864;mircea_popescu;aaand i just looted ~half a btc worth of dagsden flags in eulora. mwahaha.
1586892;1482273878;mod6;nice
1586893;1482273974;phf;i always thought of him as a pretty boy who can hold a certain pose. that's why i think purple noon is great, where he fits perfectly because he looks young, fresh, aloof and arrogant. but his other stuff is forgettable. i think he had some tv show where he played a middle aged detective, where he was great again, by virtue of being the right age
1586894;1482274115;mircea_popescu;yeah, he's not a very good actor, but a fine icon. in the vein of brooms that shoot once, a picture of a car can count for a car from the right angle once ; and a stopped clock still shows accurate time on occasion.
1586895;1482274140;mircea_popescu;!!up chatter
1586896;1482274140;deedbot;chatter voiced for 30 minutes.
1586897;1482274681;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586823 << their loyalties be misplaced, what.
1586898;1482274681;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 21:43 asciilifeform: author ~wants~ to be boiled in oil..?
1586899;1482274731;mircea_popescu;but yes, imperial idiots actually do "rng verification" of software ~running on unspecified machines~.
1586900;1482274742;mircea_popescu;the insanity of this boggles the mind, if the mind can be bothered to stop and think for a minute.
1586901;1482274749;phf;mircea_popescu: while you're in that french mode you should watch (or rewatch?) fantômas. there's the three 1960s ones, with de funes. i have no idea if they are any good, because i haven't seen them for a very long time, but i suspect that they are sort of comedic 60s take on james bond.
1586902;1482274750;asciilifeform;of software!
1586903;1482274791;mircea_popescu;phf i tried recently and couldn't stand it. the cheapo roadshow really irks me. it's almost like watching that dude "commenting", what's his face
1586904;1482274815;mircea_popescu;john oliver
1586905;1482274818;phf;ahaha
1586906;1482274838;mircea_popescu;i just don't go for the whole carny show with the facepaint and the star wars papier mache models.
1586907;1482274899;phf;well, sucks. i have fond memories of it, so i'm not even going to try. like i watched a tv show that was popular in ru in mid90s, "quantum leap". i could barely sit through a handful of eposides and only because i was trying to see if it'll get any good..
1586908;1482274902;mircea_popescu;(this, i come to realise, is a major block for my watching ~any video sf. back when the people involved weren't idiots, the machines weren't yet capable.)
1586909;1482274939;mircea_popescu;phf but if you're up for some utter wtf, can always try "this must be the place". i have no idea what i saw.
1586910;1482275113;phf;hehe, this looks horrible
1586911;1482275199;*;ben_vulpes mutters westworld again
1586912;1482275202;ben_vulpes;lotsa rape and titties
1586913;1482275369;trinque;almost plays as a "lets sneak a peak at slavery, but safely"
1586914;1482275383;*;trinque enjoys
1586915;1482275500;trinque;there's a "merits of suffering" notion somewhere in there, too
1586916;1482275516;ben_vulpes;mhm
1586917;1482275950;mircea_popescu;aite, ima push to list eh.
1586918;1482275955;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church-truck-attacker-still-at-large/ << Qntra - Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church Truck Attacker Still At Large
1586919;1482276224;asciilifeform;http://qntra.net/2016/12/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church-truck-attacker-still-at-large/#comment-81969
1586920;1482276230;*;ben_vulpes waits for "omfg whats wrong with you americans, none of those tits were even on girls"
1586921;1482276375;mircea_popescu;wait wat !?
1586922;1482276419;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/12/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church-truck-attacker-still-at-large/#comment-81970
1586923;1482276453;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586838 << you mean the "blogosphere" prizes from like 1999 ?
1586924;1482276453;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 22:04 asciilifeform: the ones with the little padlock.
1586925;1482276471;asciilifeform;same idea.
1586926;1482276495;asciilifeform;but there were (and, not too long ago, i saw -- still are!) 'security'-flavoured talismans.
1586927;1482276531;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586849 << the thing with fuckgoats is that, much like in the case of, say, dildo - more expensive variation doens't usefully exist.
1586928;1482276531;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 22:11 phf: i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys
1586929;1482276540;mircea_popescu;it may exist, of course, but it dindu nuttin.
1586930;1482276576;asciilifeform;i can picture variations that increase cost (e.g., higher bitrate, and internal battery) but the basic idea cannot be improved, no.
1586931;1482276604;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586834 << quite exactly what that is, huh.
1586932;1482276604;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 21:49 trinque: seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit.
1586933;1482276629;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform or better shielding, or making it go into a reactor core, or etc.
1586934;1482276772;asciilifeform;it is possible to make a platinum-iridium fork. and possibly it will stain less after dishwasher! but is not fundamental improvement on concept of 'fork'
1586935;1482276815;mircea_popescu;right.
1586936;1482277185;pete_dushenski;"The value of Canada’s natural resource assets stood at $287 billion in 2015, down 73% from 2014, largely due to lower energy prices. […] Timber resources accounted for 55% of the value of all natural resource assets in 2015, followed by minerals (26%) and energy resources (19%)." << in other news, trump's looming war on softwood lumber is going to fucking hurt. and no, it won't be balanced out by
1586937;1482277187;pete_dushenski;keystone, at least not at the national level. but then again, whotf cares about the national level ?
1586938;1482277422;pete_dushenski;o hey 800 on the stamp
1586939;1482278060;mircea_popescu;!~calc 71.71 * 800 / 287 / 10**9
1586940;1482278062;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 71.71 * 800 / 287 / 10**9 = 1.9988850174216028E-7
1586941;1482278074;mircea_popescu;tananana. not just 1 millionth, but two!
1586942;1482278084;mircea_popescu;!~google canada land area
1586943;1482278086;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Land Area / Countries of the World - World by Map: <http://world.bymap.org/LandArea.html>; Geography of Canada - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Canada>; List of Canadian provinces and territories by area - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_area>
1586944;1482278093;mircea_popescu;helpful beyond belief.
1586945;1482278116;pete_dushenski;9.985 million km²
1586946;1482278122;mircea_popescu;!~calc 9.85 * 10**6 * 1.9988850174216028E-7
1586947;1482278123;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 9.85 * 10**6 * 1.9988850174216028E-7 = 1.9689017421602788
1586948;1482278142;mircea_popescu;eulora comes to 2sqkm of canada. LOGIC!
1586949;1482278150;pete_dushenski;lmao
1586950;1482278161;mircea_popescu;shut up it's numbers-based SCIENCE
1586951;1482278168;mircea_popescu;do they have science in your country ? how about tedx ?
1586952;1482278207;pete_dushenski;so eulora is basically the same as the entire canadian prairies.
1586953;1482278221;pete_dushenski;alberta + saskatchewan + manitoba
1586954;1482278226;mircea_popescu;wait wut ?
1586955;1482278236;mircea_popescu;no, just 2 sqkm, like enough for an american base.
1586956;1482278247;pete_dushenski;2!!!! (/me read 2 MN)
1586957;1482278273;mircea_popescu;hey, gotta leave some room for future growth lest the webcommenters win the webattle.
1586958;1482278364;pete_dushenski;would be good wotbet / bitbet : when will eulora be larger economically than, say, idaho ?
1586959;1482278411;mircea_popescu;world famous nondescript tubers!
1586960;1482278431;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski i expect once the land/ownership update makes it in, eulora will give a run for their money to a lot of peoples.
1586961;1482278550;pete_dushenski;bbl
1586962;1482278986;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/the-slut-moth/ << Trilema - The Slut Moth
1586963;1482279596;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: pls to describe this war on softwood lumber? Does this mean I should build new bookshelves sooner instead of later?
1586964;1482279644;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1586965;1482279650;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 799.35, vol: 4115.82839866 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 784.6, vol: 3918.9061 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 797.33, vol: 7710.19758945 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 809.75408, vol: 1243703.20730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 799.987, vol: 1228.98764791 | Volume-weighted last average: 809.556413514
1586966;1482279694;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: And further what sort of lumber do yall even grow up there anyways?
1586967;1482280967;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/missouri-state-representative-elect-bruce-franks-robbed-at-gunpoint/ << Qntra - Missouri State Representative Elect Bruce Franks Robbed At Gunpoint
1586968;1482281062;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: 'relieved'
1586969;1482281079;BingoBoingo;ty fxd
1586970;1482281080;ben_vulpes;also you know who opened the door, what's with the passive voice
1586971;1482281130;BingoBoingo;ty fxd 2
1586972;1482281148;ben_vulpes;right on
1586973;1482281197;ben_vulpes;now for my next riddle, what solstice gift do you get a woman who already has a baby and doesn't want another yet?
1586974;1482281308;BingoBoingo;A pearl necklace!
1586975;1482281322;trinque;!~bash 2
1586976;1482281322;jhvh1;Last 2 lines bashed and pending publication
1586977;1482293380;mircea_popescu;lmao
1586978;1482293408;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes a black and white cookie. you know, because solstice is like equinox.
1586979;1482293663;BingoBoingo;Ah, a Cosby kid!
1586980;1482294271;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: we grow pine, fir, cedar, and spruce, most of which come from bc. ontario and quebec grow some hardwoods like oak and maple but these aren't as practical or affordable for general construction so they're exported in smaller volumes relatively speaking. so depends what you want your shelves made out of. pine can work but obv the hardwoods are sturdier if also commensurately spendier.
1586981;1482294292;mircea_popescu;cedar ftw.
1586982;1482294307;pete_dushenski;worx too
1586983;1482294331;mircea_popescu;i knew cedar to make great boats ; but cedar also makes great beating sticks!
1586984;1482294423;pete_dushenski;anyways bb, if you missed trump's campaign rhetoric, he often called nafta 'the world deal ever made ever, like ever ever' and much of that is focused on the softwood imports from canada 'undercutting good white american biznizmen and their upstanding famblies' etc.
1586985;1482294442;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: pretty sure the beating stick my old man used was cedar. metal tipped too!
1586986;1482294454;pete_dushenski;was some cdn army issue thing.
1586987;1482294464;mircea_popescu;eh, maybe if i had boys. bu for girls no metal necessary.
1586988;1482294480;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's not just canadian wood ; all sorts of thing
1586989;1482294483;pete_dushenski;they do whip-flick nicely
1586990;1482294500;pete_dushenski;...the cedar sticks
1586991;1482294507;pete_dushenski;ya
1586992;1482294700;pete_dushenski;in other canadian softness, looks like 'liam' and 'sophia' were the most popular baby names for newborn boys and girls, respecitvely, in 2016
1586993;1482294727;*;pete_dushenski wonder if it's all azns
1586994;1482294768;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: I don't think you know how wood is marketed. There SPF or "Spruce, Pine, Fir" for the ones that suck because the bulk of particular kinds of softwoods all suck in the same ways. Then you get outlifers which are also lumped together like Douglas Fir and Larch or the 3-ish species of Southern yellow pine.
1586995;1482294819;mircea_popescu;wtf bs azn names. liam ? pssshhh.
1586996;1482294832;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> cedar ftw. << belongs outside or as an unfinished accent. Bookshelves need to hole WEIGHT!
1586997;1482294835;BingoBoingo;*hold
1586998;1482294878;*;pete_dushenski has bookshelves made of indiand rosewood that he's quite fond of
1586999;1482294913;mircea_popescu;dude cedar has a bending strength of like 9. better than chestnut.
1587000;1482294914;pete_dushenski;the 'd' in indiand is for 'original', like in bitcoind.
1587001;1482294959;mircea_popescu;get the nice aromatic red, it'll beat about half the hardwoords you can run across.
1587002;1482295035;*;BingoBoingo leaning towards southern yellow pine
1587003;1482295061;BingoBoingo;with cedar backing
1587004;1482295064;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, they have this crazy shit here - picconia excelsa. the wood hardens SO MUCH as it dries you can't fucking work it
1587005;1482295265;BingoBoingo;Trees are weird
1587006;1482295284;mircea_popescu;more like a shrub imo
1587007;1482295406;BingoBoingo;Ah, a short self copicing tree!
1587008;1482295461;pete_dushenski;speaking of shortness and weirdness, happy longest night of the year! edm had just 7:28 of daylight today, so 16:32 of darkness. top that, equitarianists.
1587009;1482295627;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1586996 << how come ~nobody in usa has civilized bookshelves. the kind with the glass doors.
1587010;1482295627;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 04:33 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cedar ftw. << belongs outside or as an unfinished accent. Bookshelves need to hole WEIGHT!
1587011;1482295646;asciilifeform;not even sold anywhere afaik.
1587012;1482295655;mircea_popescu;i saw such.  not everyone's fond of the dust.
1587013;1482295700;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu saw many things, probably also saw home reactor and well-maintained mig.
1587014;1482295709;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: King Geoge controls glass imports!
1587015;1482295718;mircea_popescu;hey, there is such a thing as old money, even in the usa.
1587016;1482295814;*;asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu admiring bush's glass bookcase doors, with trained eye 
1587017;1482295838;mircea_popescu;hey, my own library housed thousands of volumes in the standard romanian bookshelf, which yes had glass
1587018;1482295853;mircea_popescu;(pretty clever design - you could hook the glass pane out by lifting it.)
1587019;1482295884;asciilifeform;well yes. civilized folk have glass. and i've never seen it since moving to monkeystan.
1587020;1482296157;*;BingoBoingo thought outside on Monkeystan everyone just had a room they surrendered to compact shelving.
1587021;1482296252;pete_dushenski;https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FgblF0NsG1A/WFmUcmNln1I/AAAAAAAAoGI/IsVf__4qaJ0p3vwc_ySI9mlq0qLm-NkcACLcB/s1600/Fz11DuI%2B-%2BImgur.gif << speaking of civilisation, this is how pm's lexus ls460 (same as mine, natch) merges onto freeway protected by small motorcade. note the utter fluidity of the white-gloved hand gestures.
1587022;1482296264;pete_dushenski;^japan's pm
1587023;1482296351;*;pete_dushenski is currently discovering the not inconsequential expense of new starter motor in ls. $2k! how many g5s and ppcs is that, goodness.
1587024;1482296398;BingoBoingo;What is wrong with just taking out motor and making crank?
1587025;1482296464;asciilifeform;so humble , these cars ! american fuhrermobile could probably fit them !
1587026;1482296491;BingoBoingo;Start drive with feeling of accomplishment after having turned motor over with own hards
1587027;1482296647;BingoBoingo;Or hire mulch guy to turn over car!
1587028;1482297009;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: ofc. discretion is the name of the game in jp, posturing the name in us.
1587029;1482297060;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: retrofit for manual crank would be free in your world ? or also hire mulch man to wrench this into existence as well
1587030;1482297218;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: I'm just trying to help you continue the natural order of things and move on to next car
1587031;1482297317;mircea_popescu;which will be made of wood.
1587032;1482297350;BingoBoingo;Fron the Ark
1587033;1482297354;pete_dushenski;!~google peniscar
1587034;1482297355;BingoBoingo;because Jew
1587035;1482297355;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: ¿Pellizcar o peñiscar ? | Castellano Actual - Universidad de Piura: <http://udep.edu.pe/castellanoactual/pellizcar-o-peniscar/>; Urban Dictionary: penis car: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3Fterm%3Dpenis%2520car>; Peniscar - Dicionário Online de Português: <https://www.dicio.com.br/peniscar/>
1587036;1482297439;pete_dushenski;actually morgan uk still makes cars with wood frames. ash iirc.
1587037;1482297513;pete_dushenski;http://images.car.bauercdn.com/upload/5573/images/aeromax_2_560px.jpg << finished product. yummy.
1587038;1482297631;pete_dushenski;!#s morgan 3-wheeler
1587039;1482297632;a111;4 results for "morgan 3-wheeler", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=morgan%203-wheeler
1587040;1482297636;pete_dushenski;^also
1587041;1482297692;pete_dushenski;but ya, i'll move on to next car at next btc price level, or next kid, or next spring, or something.
1587042;1482297732;asciilifeform;next car... with wings?
1587043;1482297754;pete_dushenski;uhh lemme think about that NO!
1587044;1482297769;asciilifeform;wai not
1587045;1482297784;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Jews are afraid of heights
1587046;1482297802;*;asciilifeform likes heights
1587047;1482297844;*;pete_dushenski loves flying in commercial craft, gliding off clifftops. must be getting more gentilic than he realised.
1587048;1482297882;pete_dushenski;there's literally nowhere better to think and write than at 30k feet.
1587049;1482297884;BingoBoingo;You're just a cynic and also proud patriot like Vasily Zaytsev
1587050;1482297924;BingoBoingo;brb, sleep
1587051;1482297995;pete_dushenski;on a plane there's (ideally) no wifi, no one talking to you, just the pen and the page. i miss traveling as much as i did the last decade as much as anything for the rarefied air free from distraction.
1587052;1482298281;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: mostly because airport is further from maison than offices and properties i frequent.
1587053;1482298364;pete_dushenski;in its infinite wisdom, the city decided to turn the municipal airport into 'mixed use urban development', leaving only international airport 40km from house.
1587054;1482302896;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: 2k? for a /starter/?
1587055;1482302915;ben_vulpes;do you also pay for oil changes at the dealership?
1587056;1482302987;ben_vulpes;i had a full transmission swap done on the civic for less
1587057;1482309372;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585796 << http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/
1587058;1482309372;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 16:59 asciilifeform: neato ben_vulpes , is this mirror somewhere /
1587059;1482309399;ben_vulpes;in which the inadequacies of wget for archiving an apache server become apparent or something
1587060;1482309602;ben_vulpes;my patience for wwwtronic fiddling is rapidly eroding
1587061;1482310121;ben_vulpes;https://twitter.com/JedWheeler << low dough calolxit twittering
1587062;1482310172;Framedragger;http://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/facebook-leaked-docs/ << lulzy. "Facebook does not permit “verbal attacks” on a “protected category,”  according to the documents. These self-determined categories are  currently based on a number of factors, including: sex, religious  affiliation, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, national  origin, disability or serious illness. Some of these groups contain  sub-categories"
1587063;1482310181;Framedragger;"that receive extra protection (for example, under “age,”  criteria such as “youth” and “senior citizen” receive priority)."
1587064;1482310199;Framedragger;"A sentence reportedly containing an expletive directly followed by a  reference to a religious affiliation (for example: “f*cking Muslims”) is  not allowed. However, the same does not go for the term “migrants,” as  migrants are allegedly only a “quasi protected category.” Additionally,  Facebook reportedly allows for posts that could be deemed hateful  against migrants under certain circumstances. For example, a statement  
1587065;1482310224;Framedragger;"such as “migrants are dirty” is allowed, whereas “migrants are dirt” isn’t."
1587066;1482310331;Framedragger;(original at http://international.sueddeutsche.de/post/154543271930/facebooks-secret-rules-of-deletion )
1587067;1482310421;ben_vulpes;!#s enumerating badness
1587068;1482310422;a111;7 results for "enumerating badness", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=enumerating%20badness
1587069;1482310491;ben_vulpes;ahaha first line even mentions facebook
1587070;1482310566;Framedragger;nice foreshadowing.. fb appears to have invented a whole calculus.. "PC speech + PC speech = PC speech", but "PC + NPC = NPC" lol
1587071;1482310686;ben_vulpes;"catholics did it!"
1587072;1482310718;ben_vulpes;anyways the notion that anyone on facebook is anything other than a non-player character is hysterical on the face
1587073;1482324752;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski you know airline pilots have mostly girls, yes
1587074;1482324899;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587061 << dawg, if you're gonna link to stupid-woman-but-tits venues a la twitter, at least make it be about stupid woman that has nice tits. wtf is this ugly dumb fuck.
1587075;1482324899;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 08:48 ben_vulpes: https://twitter.com/JedWheeler << low dough calolxit twittering
1587076;1482325236;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587072 << the evolution of paul graham's internet : first, ashley madison made a site where scripted "women" interacted with loser men ; then, a bunch of kids made a bunch of sites where scripted "users" interact with scripted "users" : facebook, reddit, instagram, twitter, you name it. ALL of them, simply put.
1587077;1482325236;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 08:58 ben_vulpes: anyways the notion that anyone on facebook is anything other than a non-player character is hysterical on the face
1587078;1482326608;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F7C1FB76C4A3C7C142F2D19E0AB0129C07351363E6F6FE695BC74CCB08C23849 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1777...6333 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.170.102.244 (ssh-rsa key from 83.170.102.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
1587079;1482326609;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/80184A99450C40F7BB5A9DB5CE14CA6F06C011E4BAD038D1E6FFD63CD2EEEBF1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1457...8773 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.200.113.94 (ssh-rsa key from 193.200.113.94 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown AT)
1587080;1482327215;mircea_popescu;and speaking of facebook users etc, here's a reminder as to how the other half lives : https://archive.is/kFdOX
1587081;1482327261;mircea_popescu;(incidentally, isn't it fucking weird that the progre and libtard preoccupy themselves with economic inequality so, but never seriously considered intellectual inequality ?)
1587082;1482327314;mircea_popescu;"By adding "required" to the Answer box input tag solves the captcha requirement issue." is prolly the best part.
1587083;1482327315;jurov;you mean "no child left behind"?
1587084;1482327508;mircea_popescu;no see, that's about education. ie, equality ~of chances~ or whatever the fuck. the issue however is equality of substance.
1587085;1482327562;mircea_popescu;it's maybe unfair that whoever is running that "shop" doesn't have as much money as i do. it is maybe unfair that whoever is running that "shop" didn't go to as good a school, or have as good parents, or as alf points out, didn't have as well housed a library at home. fine.
1587086;1482327579;mircea_popescu;but it is CERTAINLY unfair that he's fucking dumbs as rocks and i am not.
1587087;1482327587;mircea_popescu;the rest... eh, whatever.
1587088;1482327607;mircea_popescu;i'd take not being dumb over not being poor.
1587089;1482328229;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/55056F83207A439D3C26F2609C8311BFD97DB18A019882B21384C50F363CF09F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2587...3423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.10.152.182 (ssh-rsa key from 177.10.152.182 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BR RJ)
1587090;1482328229;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4477E41E8EB0AC0823C3BC680EAF68DB907ECC7C0C2444AFA96CA36150240823 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2284...1991 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.8.113 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.8.113 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www2.webatelier.com. FR)
1587091;1482331094;asciilifeform;https://curl.haxx.se/docs/adv_20161221A.html << in other noose
1587092;1482331137;asciilifeform;'libcurl's implementation of the printf() functions triggers a buffer overflow when doing a large floating point output. The bug occurs when the conversion outputs more than 255 bytes.'
1587093;1482331179;mircea_popescu;ajajaja wait wait, i could hijack any bot loading trilema via curl ?
1587094;1482332671;asciilifeform;when does curl even ~do~ a floatingpoint printf
1587095;1482332877;trinque;probably a transfer rate switch somebody just had to have
1587096;1482333092;trinque;hm, nah
1587097;1482333101;trinque;asciilifeform: https://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/curl_mprintf.html << they just have copies of all of them in libcurl ?!
1587098;1482333122;asciilifeform;evidently
1587099;1482335039;jurov;it's exploitable only if someone were calling curl_printf with like "%0128.128L" format string, no?
1587100;1482336721;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/how-the-other-half-lives-a-very-seriously-funny-article/ << Trilema - How the other half lives - a very seriously funny article.
1587101;1482336962;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F7C1FB76C4A3C7C142F2D19E0AB0129C07351363E6F6FE695BC74CCB08C23849 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1716...1243 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.170.102.244 (ssh-rsa key from 83.170.102.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
1587102;1482337285;mircea_popescu;so it occurs to me that the ~only cold war ideological response to totalitarianism (more or less soros' mental construct of "an open society") is kneejerk nonsense of the prime order, very much in line with the proposition that "subverting cryptography increases security" or "gun bans increase security" etcetera.
1587103;1482337343;mircea_popescu;evidently the correct solution is ~a correctly closed society~, not the hallucination of an open one. but then again the republic takes thinking, and so...
1587104;1482337419;asciilifeform;dafuq is 'open society'
1587105;1482337438;asciilifeform;...shorthand for 'soros gets to open everybody's mailz' or wat.
1587106;1482337459;mircea_popescu;it's actually ~why~ it was decided aol may sell internet subscriptions.
1587107;1482337480;mircea_popescu;pretty much everything current in "progressive" circles is built on that ideological platform.
1587108;1482337564;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, soros is not particularly relevant, bergson-popper-etc
1587109;1482337624;asciilifeform;i always parsed the aol thing as, from lizard pov, 'thinking folks are gettin' uppity, let's ddos'em'
1587110;1482337649;mircea_popescu;well in retrospect it may be whatever, but at the time it was more of the same "human potential unlocking" gargle.
1587111;1482337858;asciilifeform;( https://archive.is/XoyjV << vintage soros lulz )
1587112;1482337905;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform during ro elections all sorts of "luminaries" of a very evident mercenary bent did pieces about how soros ain't that bad - wasn't even ever convicted!
1587113;1482337916;mircea_popescu;i was amused at what the us state dept imagines average romanian may believe.
1587114;1482337947;asciilifeform;the average 'human potential' furniture could probably be persuaded to believe everything, and its opposite, 'six times before breakfast'.
1587115;1482337984;mircea_popescu;yes, and the average piece of fresh river mud can be fucked (in any hole!) even more times, even more before breakfast.
1587116;1482337994;mircea_popescu;it ~may~ give you VD ; but it's not making you any children.
1587117;1482338366;mircea_popescu;that's, i suppose, the actual point here : that while building chumpatrons ~is~ feasible ; and in many actually encountered circumstances it ~is~ productive ; nevertheless a chumpatron is not a tank. not merely by coincidence of design, like a spoon is not a fork, but could pass for a fork in a bind. a chumpatron is not a tank fundamentally, nor could ever be a tank of any kind to any degree, much like a stove can't cool your
1587118;1482338366;mircea_popescu; food ; nor the fridge heat it.
1587119;1482338401;mircea_popescu;finally giving a formal dress to a long held but not expressed notion that it is a waste of one's time to try building chumpatrons.
1587120;1482338413;mircea_popescu;they ~are~ destined for a blow up, willy-nilly, because they're not tanks.
1587121;1482338528;pete_dushenski;https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uGZQFEhpmzE/maxresdefault.jpg << prototypical chumpatron
1587122;1482338541;asciilifeform;the builder, unless he is exceptionally stupid himself, understands that it will explode. his idea is simply to be somewhere far, far away, when it does.
1587123;1482338543;mircea_popescu;lmao
1587124;1482338551;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/80184A99450C40F7BB5A9DB5CE14CA6F06C011E4BAD038D1E6FFD63CD2EEEBF1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1408...9327 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.200.113.94 (ssh-rsa key from 193.200.113.94 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown AT)
1587125;1482338552;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/55056F83207A439D3C26F2609C8311BFD97DB18A019882B21384C50F363CF09F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1444...4107 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.10.152.182 (ssh-rsa key from 177.10.152.182 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BR RJ)
1587126;1482338552;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4477E41E8EB0AC0823C3BC680EAF68DB907ECC7C0C2444AFA96CA36150240823 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1472...9539 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.8.113 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.8.113 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www2.webatelier.com. FR)
1587127;1482338564;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but see the fundamental problem with this ? why should i wish to be far away from my life's work ? what am i, some sort of celenterate ?
1587128;1482338582;mircea_popescu;how exactly does one defend against the very sartre-ian angoisses in this context ?
1587129;1482338588;asciilifeform;folx launching rockets to pluto are also 'far away from life's work'
1587130;1482338605;*;mircea_popescu isn't launching such rockets.
1587131;1482338620;mircea_popescu;while alienation is a fact of life ; i scarcely see the merit in building it in deliberately ffs.
1587132;1482338650;trinque;the rocket designers aren't far from their work in the alienation sense.
1587133;1482338667;trinque;"let my name not be attached to this act"
1587134;1482338672;mircea_popescu;yeah ; but i was allowing his loose coupling maybe something comes of it.
1587135;1482338687;mircea_popescu;undisciplined association -> how most science starts.
1587136;1482338699;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: stealership wants 800 for part, 6.1hrs labour at $155/hr. also recall these are pitiful canuckbucks, not megaU$$$D here, so chop a full quarter when converting your bezzle outrage. but yes, civic tranny is cheap, toyolexus parts very spendy. anyways, my mechanic is doing it for closer to $1300. still a slap but not quite as dear.
1587137;1482338750;trinque;replacing a lexus transmission?
1587138;1482338789;pete_dushenski;goodness no. just a starter. ben is comparing crapples to crystal vases is all.
1587139;1482338799;mircea_popescu;o wow, cad back down to 1.25 ?
1587140;1482338831;*;trinque might get a used lexus
1587141;1482338838;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: thus "natural resource value down 75% yoy"
1587142;1482338856;trinque;trying to stop leaking money for no good reason on scam machines
1587143;1482338877;mircea_popescu;prolly ben_vulpes 's civic is as good as that gets.
1587144;1482338879;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is not clear to me that a chumpatron operator has to experience any more 'alienation' than a pig farmer. the latter does not particularly care how pigs remember his work. nor the chumpatronist -- how the chumps remember.
1587145;1482338906;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if the pig farmer didn't experience alienation the pig farmer's daughter would be under my table begging to suck my cock or anything else so she doesn't have to go back to the pig farm.
1587146;1482338927;pete_dushenski;trinque: you'd like their trucks. solid electronics (unlike ze germans), rock solid engines (unlike ze amerikans), but high resale value.
1587147;1482338928;mircea_popescu;wouldn't be*
1587148;1482338960;trinque;pete_dushenski: tundras are motherfuckers; they're in the running.
1587149;1482338974;pete_dushenski;o nice
1587150;1482339131;pete_dushenski;no one wants to go back to the farm. tis very true and the primary reason why my father's family busted their nuts to get top marks in county so as to get the fuck off the land and move to the city.
1587151;1482339158;pete_dushenski;something like 4/7 kids had top marks in their respective years.
1587152;1482339269;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski this is not universally true however. even in the narrow urban-rural-1970s universe discussed, there are some who are more alienated by the urban than the rural, prefer to live on the farm.
1587153;1482339319;mircea_popescu;however it is telling that the leavers all seek the same thing - and it isn't the city per se. it's just "self-realization" ie, the opposite of the above alienation. essentially, they seek to not be chumpatron engineers.
1587154;1482339351;mircea_popescu;(and yes farming is entirely chumpatronics, of the worst ilk. as dean martin once said, "my old man used to gamble that he'd get rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well eschew plowing."
1587155;1482339387;pete_dushenski;aha. city gamblers have cleaner hands
1587156;1482339427;mircea_popescu;nobody has clean hands (go to a bio lab sometime, see). however - city gamblers feel their city gambling hands to be ~theirs~ to a larger degree than rural gamblers do.
1587157;1482339427;asciilifeform;they're still gambling over the gambling proceeds of the farmer and of the miner.
1587158;1482339444;mircea_popescu;this is the essential point, that shock of the alzheimer patient who sees self in the mirror and calls the police to report a burglary.
1587159;1482339447;asciilifeform;(and of the soldier, etc)
1587160;1482339457;pete_dushenski;they leavers still end up missing the quietude and tranquility of the countryside. there's no taking the rural out of the boy.
1587161;1482339459;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not really. in fact, they're just playing eulora.
1587162;1482339485;pete_dushenski;*the leavers
1587163;1482339607;mircea_popescu;could you say "whenever someone clicks on some grass to make a bundle and process it into coarse frangible thread - they are gambling with the proceeds of the actual irl farmer and miner, and soldier." ? sure. does it actually say anything however ? i dun see what.
1587164;1482339668;asciilifeform;you can't eat eulora grass.
1587165;1482339684;mircea_popescu;"you" isn't anything. for while you are - you are ; and once you're no longer, you're no longer.
1587166;1482339696;mircea_popescu;this is the fundamental syllogism that informs all the outwardly-insane human behaviour.
1587167;1482339722;asciilifeform;well no shit, imaginary creatures of particular type, can indeed eat it. but they run on top of physical hardware, which eats entirely other things.
1587168;1482339741;mircea_popescu;hence the whole story of http://trilema.com/2016/the-darkening/
1587169;1482339764;asciilifeform;aha. or even the reaction to asciilifeform's 'what's a good flight sim' side thread
1587170;1482339782;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's no actual link between these two planes, you udnerstand ? consider that the idiots who thought hillary will win, DIDN'T yield once she didn't win. consider the above story of dreamers, and ALL experience without exception.
1587171;1482339785;asciilifeform;'omfg flightsims!? go and burn in a proper winged coffin like a man!'
1587172;1482339797;mircea_popescu;there is no feedback between the hardware and the ideology ; and consequently matters of existence are irrelevant.
1587173;1482339821;mircea_popescu;if luck/skill/process/whatever feeds them, they'll be fed and go on reddit and wikipedia to say what ~they think~ about it. right or wrong.
1587174;1482339825;mircea_popescu;and if the same doesn't feed them, they'll die.
1587175;1482339839;mircea_popescu;there ISNT an outcome where they go on reddit and wikipedia to say the opposite of what they think, see ?
1587176;1482339848;mircea_popescu;the system is strictly bound in this manner ; and that decides the results.
1587177;1482339848;asciilifeform;hey, s. lem got there first, in 'futurological congress' !1111
1587178;1482339855;mircea_popescu;good for 'im!
1587179;1482339936;mircea_popescu;and so therefore - no, they're not doing anything in town but playing eulora. it has ~nothing to do with farmer, miner or soldier.
1587180;1482339979;mircea_popescu;they seek self-actualization, not reality-adequation after all.
1587181;1482340037;mircea_popescu;(incidentally, anyone looking for a good source of the subversion of "stem" in the us may as well go read feyerabend)
1587182;1482341020;*;trinque trying to wrap brain around whether this is a failure mode or universally true, but will have to implement tail recursion optimization in his own head first
1587183;1482341045;trinque;"do I fuck for ideology?" "yeah, sure, whatever."
1587184;1482341090;trinque;http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38387530 << unrelatedly, guy was nice enough to leave his ID right there. tidy.
1587185;1482341152;mircea_popescu;trinque what "this" ?
1587186;1482341175;trinque;"no feedback between the hardware and ideology"
1587187;1482341209;mircea_popescu;ah. it is a failure mode ; the feedback is perceived by the i-subject as dolorous, and if there's too much of it the only way to rescue the ideology is to sever the feedback.
1587188;1482341259;mircea_popescu;which severance is reinterpreted internally as "liberating" - the same kids who ENJOYED getting out of the house when they were 18 then cry when their parents die. but why ? weren't you so fucking happy to be rid of them ?
1587189;1482341273;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-23#1249399
1587190;1482341273;a111;Logged on 2015-08-23 05:06 trinque: I demand for this to never have happened at once!
1587191;1482341274;mircea_popescu;"things change". yesofcoursehteydo.
1587192;1482341354;mircea_popescu;trinque quite. and also you know, "campaign against fake news", "campaign against bullying", "campain against online trolls" and what have you.
1587193;1482341371;mircea_popescu;recall the time when eu zone declared short selling illegal ?
1587194;1482341424;trinque;"not me but christ through me" even worse, I'd think, with apologies to danielpbarron. "I submit myself fully to the god of purpose."
1587195;1482341431;trinque;at least the socialist state claims to exist *here*
1587196;1482341435;mircea_popescu;or how about, here's a fine example of utter retardation : https://archive.is/jqzOg
1587197;1482341435;mircea_popescu;"Asset stripping has presented itself to be a highly controversial topic within the financial world. The positives of asset stripping generally lie with the corporate raiders, who can slash the debts they may have whilst improving their net worth.[6] However, the general perspective of asset stripping is firmly negative."
1587198;1482341474;mircea_popescu;firmly in what sense ? if the company is worth less than its parts, then this is a case of underutilization of capital goods. someone somewhere is starving because you decided to keep the warehouse empty.
1587199;1482341512;mircea_popescu;meanwhile, things such as "buy up all the grain and lock it in the basement", which are EXACT equivalents - antieconomic underutilization, are... also "firmly negative". well which the fuck is it!
1587200;1482341519;asciilifeform;'those with title to something worthless will find a way to extract value from it, making it even more worthless. An abandoned suburban subdivision might be worthless as housing, but valuable as a dump site for toxic waste.' (orlol's discussion of 'asset stripping', in http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062805_soviet_lessons_part2.shtml )
1587201;1482341571;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the pedestrian notion of value and worth certainly have practical problems.
1587202;1482341647;asciilifeform;the pedestrian notions of 'voltage' and 'current' also have problems.
1587203;1482341653;mircea_popescu;anyway, while the quoted article is remarkable in toto as a fine sample of what wikipedia is, intellectually, the "break all the mirrors" fatlogic reaction is not limited to wikitards.
1587204;1482341654;asciilifeform;but are perfectly adequate for all kinds of everyday work.
1587205;1482341667;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there is no such thing as "everyday work" anymore.
1587206;1482341670;mircea_popescu;the robots are now doing that.
1587207;1482341698;mircea_popescu;you'd expect basic numeracy to also be "perfectly adequate for all kinds of everyday work", except the kinds of everyday work in question are no longer done - the kids all see themselves you know, CEOs.
1587208;1482341705;mircea_popescu;and basic numeracy is not perfectly adequate for being a ceo.
1587209;1482341745;asciilifeform;this parallel universe where anglotards pretend to be various things -- it mostly does not exist for folx not tuned in.
1587210;1482341790;mircea_popescu;yes, but "ask.fm has 150mn users" and shopify trades as NYSE:SHOP for 40bux and then some guy wants to discuss things about you know, "MPEx has no volume you have been warned!!11"
1587211;1482341830;mircea_popescu;evidently there's some expectation somewhere that the batshit insane terms of the empire will be taken at face value. by someone, somewhere. i have nfi.
1587212;1482342123;mircea_popescu;but in any case - alienation and self-realization stand in an inexact opposition - if for no other reason then because derealisation often appears as a viable alternative self-realisation. "i am a pretty special snowball" is exactly the self-realised derealized individual, satisfied with his own self image in a wholly imagined world. while by definition maximally alienated ; he also is maximally self-realized.
1587213;1482342147;mircea_popescu;which is why insanity is usually the escape valve for desires incomesurate with possibilities. as alf says, nothing novel here.
1587214;1482342224;mircea_popescu;or to revisit the theme of http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/ : notional valuations always supply the shortfall. how exactly one goes about getting those notions varies, but they will be got.
1587215;1482342311;mircea_popescu;(and if you're wondering - the hallucinatory perception of the other known objectively as "puppy love" is precisely an implementation of this principle. as it exists in all cultures [that i'm familiar with] it seems likely to be the definitionally human trait. man is the beast who, when confronted with a shortfall, dreams up a compensation.)
1587216;1482342377;mircea_popescu;!~google quelli cattivi cattivi che urlano
1587217;1482342378;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Quelli cattivi cattivi che urlano - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/playlist%3Flist%3DPL26A9A3F21989DFBD>; Quelli cattivi cattivi che urlano | TravelBook.TV: <http://www.travelbook.tv/playlist/quelli-cattivi-cattivi-che-urlano/PL26A9A3F21989DFBD>; Comincia il gioco, chi c'è c'è, chi non c'è non c'è. Si - Le 17 e 4 minuti: (1 more message)
1587218;1482342398;trinque;would befit the creature that found a life of sorts on every continent but the totally frozen one
1587219;1482342407;mircea_popescu;sigh. google you're useless, fo realz.
1587220;1482342440;mircea_popescu;trinque yeah, the problem is not that it does that ; just that sometimes, it goes about it ineptly.
1587221;1482342445;trinque;I'd say we like suffering, and it can get out of hand.
1587222;1482342447;trinque;right
1587223;1482342618;trinque;hm, we may have reimplemented evolution in this manner. breed incessantly, generate disjunctoins with reality at random in new meatsacks, older meatsacks that survived the last round kill the bad candidates, goto 10
1587224;1482342635;trinque;they're doing exactly what they ought, then.
1587225;1482342715;mircea_popescu;trinque the problem with feyerabend isn't even that he's an asshole, or whatever else. the problem is, his criticism of methodological science actually stands ; contrary to what people like to believe galilei's stance was a lot less defensible than the church's at the time ; yes he won, and yes he's from our party, so fuck the church - but this political approach to the problem is weak specifically because it tries to go up t
1587226;1482342715;mircea_popescu;he tree, and you have no guarantee at all points you will have to resolve an epistemological dispute you will also have the political class available.
1587227;1482342768;mircea_popescu;so, yes : science, and i don't here mean, globalwarmism or pseudoevolutionism or lulzgametheory or such ; but - physics. astronomy, things of serious. these didn't develop methodically, in history, but exactly through a process of "try random batshit and it sometimes works".
1587228;1482342795;asciilifeform;fortunately (?) we still have a working model of the old school, preserved: 'atoms move because allah farts on them'
1587229;1482342800;mircea_popescu;the fundamental reason weighing photons works and weighing witches does not work has nothing to do with anything inside the science ; they tried both, much like newton tried alchemy.
1587230;1482342858;asciilifeform;hey, folx were 'weighing souls' as recently as t. edison
1587231;1482342871;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imagine someone who actually went to the trouble of rescuing - from an intellectually powerful, epistemologically informed position - all the insanities of history. "witches weighing doesn't work because witches don't have a float mass"
1587232;1482342873;asciilifeform;(soon-to-be-corpse on a scale, etc)
1587233;1482342882;mircea_popescu;the original ether was a fine step in thsi direction.
1587234;1482342891;mircea_popescu;and people DID spend their life hunting ether winds. irl. yes. last century.
1587235;1482342895;asciilifeform;you don't have to go far:
1587236;1482342898;asciilifeform;the modern string theory folx
1587237;1482342911;mircea_popescu;i'd rather go far because if i stay close it looks too much like genuine science.
1587238;1482342924;asciilifeform;have dispensed with ~100% of what used to be called fundamental method - incl. testability
1587239;1482342997;mircea_popescu;just the problem of optics in the time of galileo - none of that shit worked in any sensible manner. very much like in the case of string theory - they dispensed with reason. they did.
1587240;1482343049;mircea_popescu;eventually "actual" science caught up with them and backed them up and here we are - but in other cases it didn't! the recon squad that sees enemy fortifying and raises a flag and calls for reinforcement may get them, and create a turning point in the whole war. or may not get them, and create half a dozen fresh graves.
1587241;1482343214;asciilifeform;recall the gauss (specifically re euclid's 5th) thread ?
1587242;1482343222;mircea_popescu;right.
1587243;1482343233;asciilifeform;the 'intellectual coherence ranks above results' thing had not fully died in his time
1587244;1482343244;asciilifeform;and it is not clear that its death was a pure win.
1587245;1482343250;asciilifeform;because 'result' is very slippery thing.
1587246;1482343272;mircea_popescu;moreover - the real killer - this "catching up" needn't happen in any finite time. the atomists of athens never got the support coming their way ; it was a risible sect in the place and time.
1587247;1482343298;asciilifeform;aha, and specifically the greeks had the dial cranked 100% to 'coherence'
1587248;1482343310;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes ; but coherence is also a very slippery thing. for one thing - the ask.fm cowsies are very coherent. bitcoin is ??
1587249;1482343361;asciilifeform;well naturally it is ~perceived~ coherence
1587250;1482343415;asciilifeform;( oblig: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/GreeksWrong.HTM )
1587251;1482343650;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pretty much reduces to "the greeks went wrong in being traditionalist, ie, expecting their negative space is universal negative space".
1587252;1482343694;mircea_popescu;this is pretty easy a criticism to make universally, "from you knowing x it follows that x exists ; but from you not knowing y nothing follows about y".
1587253;1482343948;asciilifeform;i don't even see this as specifically greek - it is standard 'blub effect', modern plankton thinks 'maths is what i learned in kindergarten', negative space -- universal
1587254;1482343949;mircea_popescu;(but no, steve dutch's reading of aristotle is not interesting qua aristotle, or qua greek thought. it's strictly the case of dutch speaks english and found an english translation of aristotle, so he imagines that  "τῶν γὰρ φύσει συνεστώτων τὰ μέν ἐστι σώματα καὶ μεγέθη, τὰ δ' ἔχει σῶμα καὶ μέγεθος, τὰ δ' ἀρχαὶ τῶν ἐχόντων εἰ
1587255;1482343949;mircea_popescu;σίν." somehow comes to "There is nothing else beyond body (three dimensional solid) because if there were, then there would be something else beyond body." which... it doesn't.
1587256;1482343971;asciilifeform;so let's have better translation ?
1587257;1482344026;mircea_popescu;i can't.
1587258;1482344029;asciilifeform;and what, gonna tell me that aristotle also did not derive, out of his arse, woman having fewer teeth than man ?
1587259;1482344068;mircea_popescu;let's approach this from a more hospitable angle. dutch makes the charge (unsourced, but it's sheer anglicanism) that the reason the greeks didn't build ironclads is that they (like the chinese, natch) despised manual labour.
1587260;1482344081;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if the rabbit cannot be pulled out of the hat, perhaps there is no rabbit in the hat ?
1587261;1482344087;mircea_popescu;this is not exactly correct. they despised what you despise, which is to say sitting there and deleting 30-40 spam accounts/day
1587262;1482344168;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform to be precise : i can't turn the greek string into an english string for you for the same reason you can't turn trb into lisp code for me. "but alf, it compiles! a lisp version must exist!" hurr. i don't propose "because you can't take object code and make me lisp source it follows no c sources existed" do i ?
1587263;1482344217;mircea_popescu;i hasn't the patience to go into detail as to echonton eisin & friends. not aristotle's fault.
1587264;1482344290;jurov;heh, nice example how alphabet is inferior to diagrams. if aristotle had drawn a diagrams that would survive to this day, no translation needed
1587265;1482344300;asciilifeform;^
1587266;1482344315;asciilifeform;and it is considerably harder to talk sheer circular crapolade via diagram.
1587267;1482344437;asciilifeform;to revisit upstack -- yes, mircea_popescu's greek-fu is strong, and asciilifeform's -- weak. so, let's ask him, is it a misperception of untutored barbarians, that the greeks picked reasoning over observation , categorically ?
1587268;1482344513;asciilifeform;because afaik this shows up again and again, and aristotle in particular explicitly pissed on the very concept of a thinking man working with his hands
1587269;1482344521;asciilifeform;(in 'politics', possibly elsewhere)
1587270;1482344919;mircea_popescu;jurov this is not actually true. but the falsity of the equivalency would be harder to pinpoint.
1587271;1482344985;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform as per usual, it depends on what is is. so - yes, pissed. you piss idem, when you say things to the tendency of "work - for tractors ; not humans". your dislike of perl and his dislike of "observation" in the sense of "handiwork" are very close ; and closer to my eye than alternatives.
1587272;1482345036;asciilifeform;this is entirely possible.
1587273;1482345055;mircea_popescu;and as to the problem of translation : source code and object code make together a thing. an item can not be said to be a program without either. their relationship is particular, you can go from one to the other, and ~to a very limited degree~ from the other to the one.
1587274;1482345091;mircea_popescu;now -  translation operates not on the object code (ie, the string quoted, or a string quoted) but on the whole program : any string plus ~the totality~ of conceptual content of the brain that produced it.
1587275;1482345097;asciilifeform;it remains fact - that euclid was considerably more portable.
1587276;1482345148;mircea_popescu;because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
1587277;1482345181;mircea_popescu;so then : in order to go from a string in greek  to a string in english, one has to reconstruct the conceptual underpinnings, the "source code". and this is not trivial.
1587278;1482345215;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform euclid was considerably more portable, ironically, because he was considerably more alphabetic. he eschewed ~most~ of the power of greek at his time, and ate the downside of sounding like a literal retard.
1587279;1482345258;mircea_popescu;which he did sound like ; and which is why he doesn't figure as proeminently among the greeks of his time as he does among moderns.
1587280;1482345273;asciilifeform;'used diagrams, like complete tard'
1587281;1482345283;mircea_popescu;what he used were not diagrams.
1587282;1482345344;mircea_popescu;and no, it's not at all harder to talk nonsense via diagram. more generally : there's no methodological salvation ; you won't go to heaven through not swearing ; you won't produce science by following "the science method" and so following.
1587283;1482345373;mircea_popescu;there's no "risk handling textbook" in finance.
1587284;1482345390;asciilifeform;not salvation, no. but a kind of hygiene. diagram forces the speaker to use fewer #includes and 'powers of greek' etc.
1587285;1482345404;mircea_popescu;what do you mean by "diagram" here ?
1587286;1482345450;asciilifeform;e.g., https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/88/57/39/8857398b2e0e5db80fa99a7720100499.jpg .
1587287;1482345463;mircea_popescu;can we have without powers of greek and includes ?
1587288;1482345542;asciilifeform;well, earlier in thread, we had ' dutch is wrong, aristotle meant this-here untranslateable thing, not 'body' in monkeyspeak'
1587289;1482345565;mircea_popescu;i didn't say that. i said - that dutch's writing is interesting as of dutch ; not much as of aristotle.
1587290;1482345593;asciilifeform;then i ask for coherent picture of subj in some current living language -- and no dice
1587291;1482345597;asciilifeform;why'd that be ?
1587292;1482345606;mircea_popescu;because aristotle belongs to a dead language.
1587293;1482345627;asciilifeform;but euclid, evidently -- not
1587294;1482345636;asciilifeform;'portable'
1587295;1482345645;mircea_popescu;aha. however fellow was ~marginal~ in his language.
1587296;1482345662;mircea_popescu;as generally happens, mongols will comprehend the bums better than the middle class.
1587297;1482345705;asciilifeform;folks who 'can't be translated into idiot mongol' are guilty until proven innocent of playing glass bead games with words and pulling one another's cocks
1587298;1482345712;mircea_popescu;suppose you excavate tomb in valley of queens ; suppose you find ~live~, talking, cogent queen in there. suppose you take her to the shelf of items, and give her a questionnaire. she is to select "dildo spatula or hat" for each present item.
1587299;1482345726;mircea_popescu;is she going to be disqualified from queenhood if she fails this multiple choice test ?
1587300;1482345784;asciilifeform;how do you disqualify queen from a vanished throne ?
1587301;1482345821;mircea_popescu;now we understand each other. dutch can't be "wrong" about aristotle per se. it is a fact he didn't much understand what the other said ; and it is a fact that in the dutch system, dutch's observations stand, however vaguely greek flavoured they may be.
1587302;1482345853;mircea_popescu;the question before you is, were you trying to understand the greeks, or were you trying to explain to yourself why you aren't trying to ?
1587303;1482345912;jurov;you can write elaborate essays in any languages, dead or alive that pi ==== three. but you can't clearly draw it.
1587304;1482345928;mircea_popescu;sure.
1587305;1482345940;asciilifeform;i in particular would like to understand the greeks. but every time i go full bore and try, i end up with 'the arbitrary crapola i gotta load into my head, to properly sink into this text, is quite equally loathesome to, e.g., 'dialectic materialism', or obummercare, or american patent law, etc.'
1587306;1482345967;mircea_popescu;and aristotle could read this log, smile broadly at alf, and say "hey, suppose someone comes up with a superunitary probability ; and you disqualify it for you know, being out of the defined bounds. my my aren't you a circular logician just like me!"
1587307;1482345981;mircea_popescu;it's likely what he'd have said, especially if older and thus mellowed.
1587308;1482346010;asciilifeform;i'm quite certain that he would.
1587309;1482346034;*;mircea_popescu has better greek fu than dutch, which allows him a better emulated aristotle than dutch's, which is neither here nor there.
1587310;1482346052;mircea_popescu;throne - still vanished.
1587311;1482346067;asciilifeform;actually even asciilifeform's emulated aristotle tends to say this.
1587312;1482346076;asciilifeform;so you don't need super 'hi-fi' one.
1587313;1482346123;asciilifeform;'aristotle: your postulates are just as circular!' 'asciilifeform: i made a working diode from things i dug up' 'aristotle: you just got lucky'
1587314;1482346126;mircea_popescu;(contrary to common belief, supernumeray probabilities are a major problem in theoretical physics ; much of the nature of the problems aristotle was struggling with in his discussion of heavens)
1587315;1482346150;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i;m not sure you grasp the point here. read it again!
1587316;1482346225;asciilifeform;what even is a 'superunitary probability' ?
1587317;1482346234;mircea_popescu;a probability > 1
1587318;1482346240;asciilifeform;i can picture one as a nonphysical boojum, like the imaginary solution to a quadratic
1587319;1482346247;asciilifeform;well yes no shit >1
1587320;1482346251;asciilifeform;but where does one meet these.
1587321;1482346261;mircea_popescu;same place aristotle met 4dimensional space ?
1587322;1482346305;asciilifeform;except that heaviside had absolutely no problem introducing sqrt(-1) into models of reality
1587323;1482346315;mircea_popescu;sooo ?
1587324;1482346328;asciilifeform;soo if we gotta have P>1, we get P>1.
1587325;1482346335;mircea_popescu;but you don't like string theory!
1587326;1482346367;mircea_popescu;here's the thing : structure of knowledge and content of knowledge are different concerns. dutch erroneously represents a problem with the content in terms of problem with structure.
1587327;1482346387;mircea_popescu;there you go - i haven't translated, but at least discussion allowed us to build a sufficient basis so at least a meaningful summary could be devised.
1587328;1482346389;mircea_popescu;better than nothing.
1587329;1482346396;asciilifeform;the strings folx willingly put themselves in the company of irigaray et al when they explicitly pissed on parsimony and physical testability.
1587330;1482346444;mircea_popescu;yes, but the proposal to discuss a space one may never walk into may be seen with the same eyes
1587331;1482346449;asciilifeform;they 'multiplied the entities'
1587332;1482346449;mircea_popescu;especially 3000 years ago
1587333;1482346459;asciilifeform;(or how do you say it in engl)
1587334;1482346660;asciilifeform;if the imaginary entity (e.g., n-dimensional space) is the most parsimonious known model of an otherwise-inaccessible physical system -- it is not purely imaginary in the irigaray sense.
1587335;1482346689;mircea_popescu;yes ; but its rejection does not actually constitute "circular logic". it's more like defensive skepticism than anything.
1587336;1482346709;asciilifeform;it is not the greek rejections that make for circular logic, but what they did not reject.
1587337;1482346719;mircea_popescu;well i was discussing a quote.
1587338;1482346771;mircea_popescu;note also that all sorts of insanities are "the most parsimonious know model" for various otherwise-inaccesible psycho-systems.
1587339;1482346783;mircea_popescu;(there is no such thing as an inaccessible physical system by the definition of the terms.)
1587340;1482346904;trinque;just sounded like he was establishing an axiom, and would've said bring forth the man who has seen the 4th dimension if challenged.
1587341;1482346942;asciilifeform;the idea of '1,111 stones' is just as inaccessible.
1587342;1482346985;mircea_popescu;there's many problems ; it's not even the case that the greek notion of "dimension" at all maps to anything here extant. the discussion is carried on trilema on easier things such as "power" etc ; but in any case, it's rather like having lisp types arbitrarily sloshed around. you don't just add 5+5 like that, if they're different types.
1587343;1482347021;mircea_popescu;should be pretty evident that a dimension defined in terms of divisibility is very fundamentally not the same thing as the latin notion of dimension-as-extensibility.
1587344;1482347037;mircea_popescu;when you go to school in 3rd grade or w/e the teacher tells you a line is "blablabla EXTENDS TO INFINITY"
1587345;1482347041;mircea_popescu;not "blablabla divided so and so"
1587346;1482347128;mircea_popescu;and sure, the greek style of deductive logic, from the all downwards lost in the field to the latin method of inductive "from the parts is made the ballista". i have no objections, but also can't pretend the alternative never existed.
1587347;1482347206;asciilifeform;the distinguishing cut is that one gives you the ballista (or diode, or nuke) and the other -- irigaray.
1587348;1482347241;mircea_popescu;no, the other gives you eg statues worth keeping around.
1587349;1482347275;mircea_popescu;the first gives youy ballista AND REDDIT ; and the other gives you praxitelles and alf-s-gentoo
1587350;1482347295;asciilifeform;might not be so obvious what archaeologists will take a liking to.
1587351;1482347315;asciilifeform;( see also: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576684 )
1587352;1482347315;a111;Logged on 2016-12-02 20:44 asciilifeform: during dinner with hitler et al, speer (among other things, reichsminister of architecture) made a comment about 'one problem, our concrete houses will leave very poor ruins'
1587353;1482347318;mircea_popescu;indeed, which is why it's the "greco-roman antiquity"
1587354;1482347643;mircea_popescu;(also it should prolly be pointed out that aristotle was not that much of a star of the greek world, if for no other reason then because he was born realtively late. he was a major star of ~scholastics~, and discussions of aristotle esp in translation are more a discussion of early christian europe than of "the greeks" - which incidentally are also a complex thing, alexander for instance, who caused hellenism, was nevertheles
1587355;1482347643;mircea_popescu;s a macedonian not a greek and spoke greek like you speak french ; whereas MOST greek life happened in constantinople, a good third to a half of it ~under turkish rule~. so... whatevers, not quite so simple.)
1587356;1482347669;asciilifeform;'greek' is broad concept, yes
1587357;1482347738;mircea_popescu;moreover the "physiologists" (term of art) went through anaximander's ionians AND pythagora's italics before socrates was even invented.
1587358;1482347750;mircea_popescu;and after aristotle was invented, the greek world had what, -20 years of life left ?
1587359;1482347764;asciilifeform;btw the modern greeks' attempt to unfuck (deturkify) their language, is rather lulzy to trained entomologist
1587360;1482347818;asciilifeform;iirc norway did something similar (de-danish?)
1587361;1482347827;asciilifeform;to same result (mega-snore)
1587362;1482347845;asciilifeform;this notion, that you can 'unpiss a swimming pool,' recurs.
1587363;1482347861;mircea_popescu;rather.
1587364;1482348543;mircea_popescu;ahahaha! ok this is sweet : "Now he's waist deep. Yes, you can describe all motion as a compound of linear and circular motion. For that matter, vectors treat all motion as combinations of linear motion."
1587365;1482348571;mircea_popescu;the problem being that no - circular motion is NOT linear ; much like a taylor sum is not an integral. yes they can be made arbitrarily close, sure, whatever.
1587366;1482348597;mircea_popescu;traditionally, as well as here, the value of trying aristotle is that it allows one to expose his own cluelessnes, which is generally beneficial.
1587367;1482348628;mircea_popescu;poor dutch.
1587368;1482348657;asciilifeform;it remains -- the folks with the linear-circles have ballista, while the ones with the circular linearities -- got anally waltzed by turks
1587369;1482348711;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i met two kinds of women in this life ; the kind that'd hang out with anyone just as long as they didn't go to jail/starve/whatever ; and the kind that'd hang out with me if it meant underground.
1587370;1482348722;mircea_popescu;which kind would you prefer to have dinner with ?
1587371;1482348835;asciilifeform;how's this plug in
1587372;1482348855;mircea_popescu;well wtf argument is this, "they died". sure, constantinople fell to the turks, and rome fell to odoacer. hurr ?
1587373;1482348887;asciilifeform;it wasn't simply 'they died', their approach to thought, as i pointed out in the start of this thread, is alive and well, 'allah farted and moves electron'
1587374;1482348904;asciilifeform;but it is dead end in the sense where it does not produce diode.
1587375;1482348912;mircea_popescu;you're discussing what amounts to a cartoon.
1587376;1482348941;asciilifeform;dead philosophies do invite themselves to this reduction to cartoon, yes.
1587377;1482348963;mircea_popescu;all philosophies are dead in this sense ; next you'll be asking "what is the sun's utility to us"
1587378;1482349056;asciilifeform;uncle al had imho pretty good 'cartoon' for this 'all philosophies are equally dead' red herring -- 'who holds the rifle during deer season? and why'
1587379;1482349065;asciilifeform;it ain't the deer.
1587380;1482349082;mircea_popescu;so who holds the rifle then ?
1587381;1482349178;asciilifeform;hunter.
1587382;1482349194;asciilifeform;or, in the case of 'britain vs zulu', the folks with the maxim - won.
1587383;1482349217;mircea_popescu;does this relate to the discussion in any way ?
1587384;1482349221;asciilifeform;sure does.
1587385;1482349256;asciilifeform;aristotelian postulates give you warm feeling of satisfaction; work-with-hands and observations-trump-theory give you ballista.
1587386;1482349287;mircea_popescu;so then the greeks are the british and the work with hands the zulu ?
1587387;1482349299;asciilifeform;vice-versa
1587388;1482349305;mircea_popescu;how do we know this ?
1587389;1482349363;asciilifeform;we - or at least asciilifeform - does not know this for certain. but the shape of the smoking crater -- suggests it.
1587390;1482349370;mircea_popescu;to we or to asciilifeform ?
1587391;1482349378;asciilifeform;evidently only to asciilifeform .
1587392;1482349388;mircea_popescu;well he is entitled to his own aesthetic judgements.
1587393;1482349418;mircea_popescu;(is the shape of the smoking crater polygonal or circular ftr ?)
1587394;1482349433;asciilifeform;speaking of greek-fu, what does mircea_popescu have to say re the traditional story of hero of alexandria's steam kettle ?
1587395;1482349439;asciilifeform;also disinfo ?
1587396;1482349452;mircea_popescu;what do you mean ?
1587397;1482349473;asciilifeform;y'know, the 'hey d00dz i have steam engine' 'lol, why would anyone want this, we have slaves'
1587398;1482349487;mircea_popescu;ah, sure. object existed.
1587399;1482349517;asciilifeform;object, iirc, turned up in late egyptian piles
1587400;1482349519;mircea_popescu;you know, just like the german uranium.
1587401;1482349522;mircea_popescu;or the japanese program.
1587402;1482349554;asciilifeform;(iirc it found a use for automagically opening temple doors when sacrificial pit was lit up)
1587403;1482349557;mircea_popescu;or the famous "x should be enough for everyone", be it bytes, cray computers, what have you.
1587404;1482349564;mircea_popescu;provisioning judgements are notoriously error prone
1587405;1482349600;mircea_popescu;i mean heck - they had atomic theory and didn't even build cyclotron
1587406;1482349613;mircea_popescu;(and before you ask - yes, cyclotron CAN be built with materials found in classical athens, why not.)
1587407;1482349639;asciilifeform;less astonishing than having wooden wheels, and running water, and not coming up with water mill.
1587408;1482349668;mircea_popescu;or having had volcanoes and not coming up with glass ?
1587409;1482349685;mircea_popescu;you know, prior to the internet MOST GIRLS didn't know they can masturbate ?
1587410;1482349694;asciilifeform;lol suuure
1587411;1482349702;mircea_popescu;it is true.
1587412;1482349722;trinque;two steps beyond experience is twas brillig and the slythe toves
1587413;1482349726;trinque;how could you say something out there
1587414;1482349761;*;mircea_popescu has personally taught a bunch of young women. about say one third discover it naturally ; but the rest do not.
1587415;1482349786;mircea_popescu;and i wouldn't even think it fair to say that the other two thirds are dumber or something.
1587416;1482349806;asciilifeform;not dumber. but sexless. (at least until reformatted)
1587417;1482349814;mircea_popescu;not particularly true either.
1587418;1482349846;mircea_popescu;and to add amusement to this : of those who do discover it naturally, only a fraction figure out THE PROCESS. most arestuck repeating the exact procedure that they originally discovered.
1587419;1482349848;trinque;"what makes woman orgasm" is culture bound. gotta be able to reprogram it when they end up in another context.
1587420;1482349859;mircea_popescu;so she'll still frottage the shit out of teddybears as a 19yo because hey.
1587421;1482349871;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik this is not specific to woman
1587422;1482349875;asciilifeform;or to masturbatieon
1587423;1482349881;mircea_popescu;of course not ; which is why i'm putting it here.
1587424;1482349925;mircea_popescu;you'd think "it;s on your fucking body - right there! and it works!" would be sufficient basis. turns out not. volcanoes produce obsidian but do not appreciably help the locals make glass.
1587425;1482349938;mircea_popescu;adn so on and so forth. i doubt much conclusion can be drawn from this absence.
1587426;1482349984;trinque;ends up a question of how conceptual symbols are formed
1587427;1482349985;asciilifeform;arguably volcano is poor example, for glass. just as bird is astonishingly dead end for flight.
1587428;1482350008;asciilifeform;recall the thread re 'engineer -- cuts!'
1587429;1482350014;asciilifeform;these folx -- did not know how to cut.
1587430;1482350034;trinque;I will not stumble drunkenly into it, but it'd seem one would at least require input that can be contorted into the item.
1587431;1482350041;trinque;saw lightning-struck sand, hm, maybe glass
1587432;1482350052;trinque;otherwise from where will it come?
1587433;1482350114;mircea_popescu;i dunno alfie. lava - hot. behind it - glass. doesn't seem more of a leap than what is proposed for the original "cooking meat" discovery, which supposedly is why we're even here.
1587434;1482350169;asciilifeform;gotta discover the blown forge
1587435;1482350184;mircea_popescu;well, if they were iron age, they had blown forge.
1587436;1482350195;asciilifeform;and as everybody recalls, aztec was quite happy to use ~found~ glass
1587437;1482350202;mircea_popescu;~everyone from golden crescent to mongolia and sweden had it.
1587438;1482350204;asciilifeform;just as prehistoric folx used found fire
1587439;1482350210;mircea_popescu;aha.
1587440;1482350226;mircea_popescu;but the general point here was that undevelopment or underdevelopment is not much argument.
1587441;1482350234;asciilifeform;(or modern redditus uses 'found' comp...)
1587442;1482350239;mircea_popescu;^
1587443;1482350292;mircea_popescu;but forget glass. ~everyone had potatoes even if they didn't have lemons, and tin and copper. who made galvanic gold plating process ?
1587444;1482350301;mircea_popescu;babylon had it , londinum did not. why not ?
1587445;1482350310;mircea_popescu;no tomatoes in albion ?
1587446;1482350326;asciilifeform;eh 'bagdad battery' is roughly at 'nazi bell' level of convincing.
1587447;1482350340;mircea_popescu;fine ; so why didn't the others make it ?
1587448;1482350360;asciilifeform;why not, say, gunpowder ?
1587449;1482350367;mircea_popescu;you can make it in an hour! what were all these people thinking! clearly all languages but objective-c were wrong! false gods of a false reason!
1587450;1482350369;asciilifeform;could have just as readily been hit upon in 5000bc
1587451;1482350382;mircea_popescu;pick your item.
1587452;1482350396;asciilifeform;answer is that the brute force searchers got to it on day x and not x-1, x-2.
1587453;1482350436;mircea_popescu;come to think about it - ONLY RECENTLY you found out thyobatteries exist!
1587454;1482350439;mircea_popescu;THEY WERE EVIDENT OMFG
1587455;1482350453;mircea_popescu;(srsly, i sat there and went holy shit this is so obvious wtf is wrong with us.)
1587456;1482350463;asciilifeform;actually i knew that it exists, but had nfi that could go to a store and BUY
1587457;1482350467;asciilifeform;they used to be usg-only
1587458;1482350482;mircea_popescu;maybe that's why no steam engine in pelopones transit ?
1587459;1482350510;asciilifeform;chinese situation with rocket might be closer example.
1587460;1482350533;asciilifeform;(and more recent, quite possibly mats et al could read and say what the relevant folks thought of subj)
1587461;1482350534;mircea_popescu;"they didn't know lightning is available in store - thought zeus only item. so they didn't make tesla coil. problem ?"
1587462;1482350554;trinque;allocation of thought-power can't be done intelligently on a matter not already known.
1587463;1482350570;asciilifeform;conceptual distance between everyday greek tech (e.g., clepsydra) and water mill, is much shorter than to tesla coil.
1587464;1482350586;mircea_popescu;but not shorter than from volcano to glass ; or from acid to battery.
1587465;1482350601;asciilifeform;(nobody, for starters, is about to draw a kilometre of pure copper wire by fortuitous accident)
1587466;1482350603;mircea_popescu;it is altogether dubious, also, HOW will you metric these distances.
1587467;1482350615;trinque;and it's being done in hindsight.
1587468;1482350627;mircea_popescu;it'd better be something that compares favourably with aristotle's dimensional calculations, too! because you're so much more advanced than the zulureeks!
1587469;1482350628;asciilifeform;re: volcano: recall the oklo 'reactor' ?
1587470;1482350650;mircea_popescu;ie natural fission in deposit ?
1587471;1482350655;asciilifeform;aha
1587472;1482350659;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1587473;1482350726;asciilifeform;and yes, 'greeks could have made tesla coil.' the same way that gavin can guess the bits in mircea_popescu's privkey
1587474;1482350749;asciilifeform;which is to say -- purely theoretically, in much the same way that my arse has a nonzero chance of falling through the chair, through the floor, and down into china
1587475;1482350767;mircea_popescu;the question of how you metric these things re emerges.
1587476;1482350774;trinque;asciilifeform: how do you narrow that from "anyone could encounter anything"
1587477;1482350815;mircea_popescu;and this is a problem of much more practical import than commonly realised. if slave is punished for things she "should have figured", how to you connect the lash count / severity of the punishment to the offense ?
1587478;1482350824;mircea_popescu;just HOW should should she have ?
1587479;1482350839;asciilifeform;believe or not -- i have this problem with various people routinely.
1587480;1482350855;mircea_popescu;(yes, /me does this routinely, and the complaint routinely is presented that the severity is arbitrary etc.)
1587481;1482350855;asciilifeform;even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example
1587482;1482350858;mircea_popescu;heh.
1587483;1482350869;trinque;mircea_popescu: and wouldn't misapplication of this only further miswire her, and produce worse results ?
1587484;1482350897;mircea_popescu;i have nfi.
1587485;1482350934;mircea_popescu;so far i'm opting out of the entire "systematic slavery" thing ; it is a private not public matter entirely opaque to they-who-aren-t-me, which makes me-as-slaveholder rather divine in nature.
1587486;1482350952;asciilifeform;afaik there is no ready pill against this . folks won't climb ladders unless prodded, and you cannot predicate the prodding on whether they seem to see the ladders or not.
1587487;1482350957;mircea_popescu;the above problem not having a known solution, even if heuristic in nature, being a large part of why.
1587488;1482350979;trinque;yeah, I don't suppose there's a solution in posing the question.
1587489;1482350983;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lel, gentoo
1587490;1482350990;mircea_popescu;what can i tell you.
1587491;1482351001;asciilifeform;'MINE -- WORX!111'
1587492;1482351031;trinque;but it points directly to the lack of a transition path for discussed greeks aside "encounter the thing, such that pavlovian conditioning can build useful associations"
1587493;1482351064;mircea_popescu;certainly the attempt worked wonders for pete_dushenski writing readable articles. what exactly made his previous work less good than his current work ?
1587494;1482351074;mircea_popescu;it's easier to not suck than to explain how to not suck, even in particular cases.
1587495;1482351076;asciilifeform;trinque: dutch had imho a correct observation, the greeks had no particular desire to be us, and would barf in about three seconds if they could meet modern folx
1587496;1482351094;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, it's just not apparent dutch is aware this includes dutch.
1587497;1482351103;asciilifeform;pretty sure that he was.
1587498;1482351122;mircea_popescu;from his discussion of artistotle it's not evident. maybe he was.
1587499;1482351126;*;mircea_popescu is no dutcheologist.
1587500;1482351293;BingoBoingo;<trinque> pete_dushenski: tundras are motherfuckers; they're in the running. << Recently Honda Civic SUV edition "CRV" fell onto my rolling candidates list. Slotted just below rust-free 1986 S10
1587501;1482351298;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587492 << this neatly dovetails into "brain is not a thinking machine". "if you exist in the space long enough, eventually brain will work to think about the space - but if you do not, sorry buster, "probability can not be larger than 3 because 3 is the largest it could be".
1587502;1482351298;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 20:10 trinque: but it points directly to the lack of a transition path for discussed greeks aside "encounter the thing, such that pavlovian conditioning can build useful associations"
1587503;1482351428;BingoBoingo;<trinque> "not me but christ through me" even worse, I'd think, with apologies to danielpbarron. "I submit myself fully to the god of purpose." << Step 3!
1587504;1482351449;trinque;purpose as opposed to cause
1587505;1482351479;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform come to think about it, everyone, including modern folks regularly barf upon that encounter.
1587506;1482351482;mircea_popescu;so this may not be saying much.
1587507;1482351557;mircea_popescu;i dunno where this truism that "people like people" comes from, but it is spectacularily resilient in the face of unequivocal quashing irl. NOBODY, past the age of about 5 or so, likes almost anybody else to even the degree of toleration, let alone actually seeking them out. not even fucking women, hence the prostitute's job (not to fuck - but to leave after!)
1587508;1482351840;trinque;the christians hacked a primordial fear here. salvation is but a word, AND YOU'RE GOING TO MISS IT.
1587509;1482351884;trinque;think if you dwelt forever on the fact that by extension, godhood itself is all around you, but you've not the ability to understand it.
1587510;1482351899;trinque;you'd have option paralysis and sit under a lotus tree til you died.
1587511;1482352502;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584339 << now this and the notion of contorting onself to think come into greater focus. thinking ~til the answer~ without knowledge of the possiblity of an answer opens up a wide space for biological suicide.
1587512;1482352502;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 18:21 mircea_popescu: in any case - mental models of logic, as with mental models of anything found in nature -, are approximations. the same mechanism that allows a guy to isolate 0* from null.predicate allows one all sorts of psycho-imunological responses that are rather requisite to maintain the subjective notion of the self ~in a format comprehensible to itself~!
1587513;1482352509;trinque;*somes
1587514;1482352512;trinque;ah fuck
1587515;1482352836;mircea_popescu;altogether not a bad summary of "eastern mysticism"
1587516;1482353086;mod6;<+asciilifeform> even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example << asciilifeform found an oversight in my latest version of V.  it doesn't have a flag allow or disallow the pressing of WILD vpatches.
1587517;1482353134;mod6;Currently, if a WILD vpatch is in the flow, it will just press it as long as it is based correctly.
1587518;1482353158;mircea_popescu;what's a wild patch again ?
1587519;1482353176;trinque;unsigned. better to know if you're sticking your dick in crazy tonight.
1587520;1482353178;mod6;a vpatch without any signature placed into .seals.
1587521;1482353187;mircea_popescu;o.O
1587522;1482353196;mircea_popescu;those shouldn't press at all should they ?
1587523;1482353231;mod6;I press them very often, infact.
1587524;1482353233;mod6;for testing.
1587525;1482353238;mircea_popescu;ah like a testing thing.
1587526;1482353249;mircea_popescu;still though, pressing unsigned matter is anti-v
1587527;1482353255;mod6;But it never occured to me that the average guy might just drop on of these into patches and never consider what he is doing.
1587528;1482353274;mircea_popescu;better off making a test key and adding it to seals than this
1587529;1482353275;trinque;thing sounds like it needs to be cleaved into vpatch and v which calls vpatch
1587530;1482353276;mod6;So yeah, need to add a flag for this.
1587531;1482353282;mircea_popescu;well no, actually.
1587532;1482353290;mircea_popescu;there shouldn't be any flag - nor should it press unsigned things.
1587533;1482353320;trinque;this is how cat gets a bunch of switches.
1587534;1482353321;mod6;I don't think it is reasonable to sign every thing I want to test.
1587535;1482353340;mircea_popescu;with the test key ? why not ? fucks with your workflow ?
1587536;1482353349;mod6;I think a flag takes care of this, exactly how alf's original v worked.
1587537;1482353386;*;trinque humbly suggests considering the combination of orthogonal, simple tools
1587538;1482353387;mod6;<+trinque> thing sounds like it needs to be cleaved into vpatch and v which calls vpatch << i'm not sure i follow here...
1587539;1482353403;trinque;the reason you do not use patch by hand is that it does not respect the hash
1587540;1482353407;trinque;that is a problem with patch
1587541;1482353422;asciilifeform;^
1587542;1482353441;asciilifeform;stock 'patch' disrespects RUN ONLY IF THIS-BITWISE HASH
1587543;1482353473;trinque;note that it does do a sort of squashy "this is what was around the spliced matter" which is a shitty hash
1587544;1482353539;mod6;im still not groking what is being said here.
1587545;1482353547;mod6;i don't have time right now.  i'll come back later for this.
1587546;1482353589;trinque;you are expanding the definition of "v" the word to accomodate deficiencies in the definition of another word, patch
1587547;1482353600;mircea_popescu;he is ?
1587548;1482353783;asciilifeform;waiwut
1587549;1482353849;trinque;asciilifeform: how did you ^ the first statement of it and waiwat the second
1587550;1482353879;asciilifeform;was agreeing with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587539
1587551;1482353879;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 20:50 trinque: the reason you do not use patch by hand is that it does not respect the hash
1587552;1482353880;trinque;v used to mean "tool which applies tree of >1 lord-sworn changes to definition of item" and would become "... or nobody swore, whatever"
1587553;1482353912;trinque;why have that code path present at all? fix patch, apply test patches by hand
1587554;1482353928;trinque;the only reason we don't manually apply all each time is we are relying upon the "sworn"
1587555;1482353936;asciilifeform;apply by hand how ?
1587556;1482353944;asciilifeform;patch -p0 < foo.patch ?
1587557;1482353947;trinque;yes
1587558;1482353954;asciilifeform;this is unacceptable for ~any~ purpose because it doesn't check precedent hashes !
1587559;1482353962;trinque;I said fix patch.
1587560;1482353971;trinque;and don't add hair to V
1587561;1482353995;mircea_popescu;dude that's a roundabout way of saying it.
1587562;1482353996;asciilifeform;when trinque posts his fixed patch util, it will be safe to remove this 'hair' from vtron.
1587563;1482354008;asciilifeform;until then, i use the wild knob every day.
1587564;1482354015;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and when i provide you with a toilet, you'll stop pissing in the bath tub ?
1587565;1482354017;asciilifeform;and yes it is a 'flood reactor button'
1587566;1482354027;asciilifeform;yes. because gotta piss in ~something~.
1587567;1482354033;trinque;entirely inconsistent with recent "cat" thread.
1587568;1482354037;mod6;how does WILD have anything to to do with patch?
1587569;1482354058;mod6;my v checks the hashes for files pressed, and pukes if not a match from the hashes in the processed vpatch.
1587570;1482354067;asciilifeform;mod6: as i understand, trinque and mircea_popescu were taking the position that 'it is dangerous and useless to have an off switch for signature check'
1587571;1482354085;mod6;you can't turn off the sig check, at least in mine.
1587572;1482354116;asciilifeform;mod6: didn't you just recently discover that yours didn't even do the check?
1587573;1482354125;mod6;mine ~does~ the check.
1587574;1482354127;asciilifeform;(would apply patch regardless of signed or not, if present in .patches)
1587575;1482354135;trinque;if zero sigs, passes.
1587576;1482354149;mod6;it doesn't care at signature time if one is WILD or not, only if the vpatch does not ~verify~ and there is a corresponding seal.
1587577;1482354156;mod6;so like when your key expired, shit puked.
1587578;1482354159;trinque;which alright already regarding null sets, but look how it maims the operator.
1587579;1482354159;asciilifeform;aah
1587580;1482354189;*;asciilifeform finds this thread somewhat confusing, is probably doomed to actually read mod6's vtron and comment only after.
1587581;1482354215;trinque;he's using "wild" to mean "bare of signatures"
1587582;1482354370;asciilifeform;anyway, the behaviour of having 'wild' button with red flip cover , that permits (and at all times, clearly marks, 'WILD') unsigned patches, or mircea_popescu's variant, where you gotta have 'test key' in .wot, are equivalent afaik
1587583;1482354407;asciilifeform;so instead of '[TESTKEY]' it prints '[WILD]' -- big fat difference?
1587584;1482354408;trinque;they're not; one doesn't introduce a branch
1587585;1482354422;asciilifeform;trinque: branch ?
1587586;1482354497;asciilifeform;(and yes, you can have 'test1', 'test2', ... while there is only one 'wild'. but who the hell uses 'wild' for anything other than one-at-a-time test, of own code?!)
1587587;1482354640;trinque;I have no idea how we get from "gnu cat is shit because they added compromises throughout the thing's life" to "we will allow ourselves this same sin" because what, we're holier, can afford it ?
1587588;1482354680;trinque;or we're afraid of patch? if we want an actual patch utility that only deals in single byte characters and hashes, I will write it.
1587589;1482354881;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they aren't. the correct solution here is to have "automated low value signature process", NOT "to bypass signature checks".
1587590;1482354902;mircea_popescu;if you want to not be bothered with signing things - make a shit key and use that eg in an emacs module or as an output script or w/e
1587591;1482354906;mircea_popescu;DON'T revert v to git.
1587592;1482354992;phf;hmm, can make the process entirely painless with shitsign alias, that does --batch --quiet and uses a passwordless key
1587593;1482355004;mircea_popescu;yep
1587594;1482355007;mircea_popescu;and ~should~.
1587595;1482355094;mircea_popescu;the nearly psychotic OUTRIGHT REFUSAL TO USE CRYPTOGRAPHY, in its universal insistence is starting to grate on my neverse.
1587596;1482355113;asciilifeform;how is a 'shitsign key' a 'use of cryptography' ?
1587597;1482355127;mircea_popescu;in the same way fuckjing an ugly broad is a use of your cock.
1587598;1482355140;mircea_popescu;stop saving yourself for marriage.
1587599;1482355177;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is not a pure win. for instance, some folx don't even ~keep~ a nonairgap signtron around. and now -- they would have to.
1587600;1482355189;mircea_popescu;this is no cost.
1587601;1482355218;trinque;asciilifeform does exploitation for a living, right? or reversing exploits?
1587602;1482355232;trinque;how many encountered involve getting a thing to go down another branch
1587603;1482355240;mircea_popescu;other than "all" ?
1587604;1482355245;trinque;aha.
1587605;1482355262;mircea_popescu;in all honestly if i were archeologist and discovering this i'd flip the bozo bit on this "tmsr" bs for this here reason.
1587606;1482355432;asciilifeform;i can see mircea_popescu's 'this is a car with 4 brake pedals, wtf is wrong with you' argument.
1587607;1482355479;mircea_popescu;to put it mildly.
1587608;1482355502;asciilifeform;btw here's a related legend
1587609;1482355542;asciilifeform;when v. belenko flew his mig to jp, and gave it as a gift to usa, su army ended up installing 'belenko switches' in all combat aircraft, supposedly.
1587610;1482355562;asciilifeform;they enabled 'shoot friend' mode (normally, 'friend or foe' beacon, would prevent.)
1587611;1482355612;asciilifeform;what archaeologists will say to this, i have nfi.
1587612;1482355654;mircea_popescu;"multiethnic superempire" prolly.
1587613;1482355691;mod6;hmm.
1587614;1482355754;mod6;I'm pretty sure i am a bozo.
1587615;1482355812;mircea_popescu;lol dun take it too badly mod6
1587616;1482355814;mod6;I think alf should take his V much further, and mine can fall into dust bin.
1587617;1482355903;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1587618;1482355909;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 823.92, vol: 9829.27107579 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 811.999, vol: 7695.64171 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 824.0, vol: 15527.9572646 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 841.68288, vol: 2835702.65670000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 824.0, vol: 1966.14857983 | Volume-weighted last average: 841.434726775
1587619;1482355937;mircea_popescu;o noes!
1587620;1482356032;BingoBoingo;7 8 9!
1587621;1482356060;trinque;mod6: dun let vigorous discussion of the item dissuade you of working on it.
1587622;1482356091;mod6;you know, i'd like to. but my thing has been around for waaay to long for no one to have noticed a huge flaw.
1587623;1482356107;BingoBoingo;No such thing!
1587624;1482356109;trinque;yeah but, glass!
1587625;1482356137;mod6;which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn't have written the fucking thing int he first place.
1587626;1482356137;BingoBoingo;Many long lived things carry major flaw, see that one tower in Pisa
1587627;1482356163;trinque;it's why V needs to be in a V tree itself.
1587628;1482356171;mod6;no seriously, i should have never been adacious enough to think that I could make that thing work.
1587629;1482357032;phf;mod6: i think there's more infrastructure around V than there's V use, which leaves a lot of issues unexplored. for example there were mentions that V had a binary problem, but a serious discussion only happened recently, with no satisfactory solution. i think you were attempting to solve an important problem: how to let people outside of tmsr figure out build process without 6 months of log (seems like even more now), but i suspect
1587630;1482357033;phf;that it might've been a bit premature to attempt to provide an authoritative comprehensive solution
1587631;1482357747;jurov;wait a sec. mod6's build system won't work if v is to reject patches without sigs?
1587632;1482357831;mod6;so... say that im the only guy in your wot.
1587633;1482357849;mod6;and you only have seals from me for vpatches in your patches directory.
1587634;1482357875;mod6;if you get rid of one of the seals for one of the vpatches, it'll say "WILD"
1587635;1482357895;mod6;but it'll still press happily enough.
1587636;1482357900;jurov;that one vpatch still has your sig or not?
1587637;1482357919;mod6;anyway, i cna't talk atm
1587638;1482357927;mod6;but i encourage you all to experiment with this.
1587639;1482357930;mod6;should have been done long ago.
1587640;1482358000;mod6;i have a subroutine
1587641;1482358004;mod6;it's called 'validate_seals'
1587642;1482358018;mod6;it iterates over all the vpatches and the like-named seals in the .seals dir.
1587643;1482358058;mod6;it looks for valid/in-valid signatures to vpatches.
1587644;1482358075;mod6;if i have a bunch of seals in my .seals dir from a guy named 'alf' that isn't in my wot, then V will complain.
1587645;1482358095;mod6;or if I have bad signatures, then it'll complain as well.
1587646;1482358111;jurov;..but it goes on and presses it?
1587647;1482358125;mod6;no
1587648;1482358134;mod6;in either of those two cases, it pukes and stops.
1587649;1482358152;mod6;but if you hvae ~no~ seals, then you can press it sure.  the 'flow' will represent these as WILD.
1587650;1482358194;jurov;ah. and why the hard feelings wrt changing that case into error, too?
1587651;1482358236;mod6;no hard feelings. i said i could do this pretty easily.
1587652;1482358242;mod6;i feel like this thing is a moving target.
1587653;1482358281;trinque;again the null set predicates thing causes huge commotion. I am honestly (and without veiled jabs) fascinated.
1587654;1482359107;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/us-drug-overdose-mortality-continue-to-increase-in-latest-figures/ << Qntra - US Drug Overdose Mortality Continue To Increase In Latest Figures
1587655;1482359231;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587516 << actually /i/ found it, and only when for personal lols i told it to do a thing that it shouldn't have
1587656;1482359231;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 20:44 mod6: <+asciilifeform> even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example << asciilifeform found an oversight in my latest version of V.  it doesn't have a flag allow or disallow the pressing of WILD vpatches.
1587657;1482359301;ben_vulpes;software review takes *months* if not *years* around here. part and parcel of the deficit spending and how the humans choose to allocate their time.
1587658;1482359313;shinohai;!!key Nom
1587659;1482359315;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/rYagz/?raw=true
1587660;1482359358;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587516 << actually /i/ found it, and only when for personal lols i told it to do a thing that it shouldn't have << ah, right.
1587661;1482359358;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 20:44 mod6: <+asciilifeform> even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example << asciilifeform found an oversight in my latest version of V.  it doesn't have a flag allow or disallow the pressing of WILD vpatches.
1587662;1482359370;mod6;iw asn't sure that the problems you're having are related to this
1587663;1482359374;mod6;but never the less.
1587664;1482359378;mod6;anytway, im off.
1587665;1482359387;ben_vulpes;no, this is separate and not exactly a problem anyways.
1587666;1482359416;ben_vulpes;the other thing is separate and not precisely a problem, i mean to say.
1587667;1482360188;asciilifeform;ftr it was definitely ben_vulpes who found $bug
1587668;1482360197;asciilifeform;i had 0 part in it
1587669;1482360279;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587616 << if everyone waited for asciilifeform in particular to do ~everything~, it will be a very sad world
1587670;1482360279;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 21:30 mod6: I think alf should take his V much further, and mine can fall into dust bin.
1587671;1482361609;ben_vulpes;ftr i do not want to bin v.pl
1587672;1482363537;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/noTjb << what colour are your ram bits ?
1587673;1482363567;shinohai;mauve
1587674;1482363572;shinohai;it's faster
1587675;1482363586;pete_dushenski;it's going to be a very mauve 2017 isn't it
1587676;1482363612;shinohai;>.>
1587677;1482363986;mircea_popescu;!!key nom
1587678;1482363989;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/CrCsk/?raw=true
1587679;1482364118;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/swedish-policy-update-white-power-causes-islamic-extremism/ << Qntra - Swedish Policy Update: "White Power" Causes Islamic Extremism
1587680;1482364900;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587625 << you gotta appreciate scrutiny is very inelastic. many people used their own implementations ; discussion of others' versions only meaningfully starts after some localized familiarity etc. in any case "being qualified to even use v" is an iffy thing - seeing how it's a novel design, and the novelty is fundamental and conceptual, nobody is technically qualified to use one. you wouldn
1587681;1482364900;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 21:35 mod6: which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn't have written the fucking thing int he first place.
1587682;1482364900;mircea_popescu;'t think you're an expert email or vim or bash user after less than a year and that's about how long v's been around.
1587683;1482364948;mod6;fair enough Sir.
1587684;1482364963;mod6;So I have a bit of code that I've inserted that will do what you ask.
1587685;1482365000;mod6;Essentially, during the verify_signatures subroutine, if a vpatch is found to NOT have a corresponding signature, death().
1587686;1482365034;mod6;err 'validate_seals'.  that's the one.
1587687;1482365048;mircea_popescu;does death() mean it skils over that vpatch ?
1587688;1482365049;mod6;and it's one of the first executing routines in my v.
1587689;1482365061;mod6;death() means that we die.  we stop then and there. continue no further.
1587690;1482365074;mod6;consider the following paste I'll put together... stand by.
1587691;1482365079;mircea_popescu;alrighty.
1587692;1482365199;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DXpy9/?raw=true
1587693;1482365240;mod6;http://dpaste.com/29E2V55.txt
1587694;1482365268;mod6;i need to dig into this a bit more, but the output flow is not necessarily the same order that the signature verification happens in.
1587695;1482365279;mod6;that's because toposort hasn't happened yet.
1587696;1482365281;mod6;bbs.
1587697;1482365408;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/ontario-standardized-test-resorts-to-graphite-based-security-measures/ << Qntra - Ontario Standardized Test Resorts To Graphite Based Security Measures
1587698;1482365456;mircea_popescu;mod6 in any case if you'd have never written the thing you'd have never found this thing. so you know, it's always worth losing fingers.
1587699;1482365461;pete_dushenski;heh. graphite-based.
1587700;1482365528;asciilifeform;https://rudd-o.com/archives/confirmed-1984-style-censorship-in-europe/index << lelz from qntra commentz
1587701;1482365589;asciilifeform;'If there's a middlebox in the Swedish ISP side (theory 1), we should see that HTTP 302 responses come back much faster than HTTP 200 responses, because a hypothetical middlebox will sit between the Swedes and upstream, and therefore may respond much faster than upstream.  If there is no middlebox (theory 2) we'd see comparable response times for HTTP 200 and HTTP 302.  Of course, no middlebox implies quite strongly that it's the Dai
1587702;1482365589;asciilifeform;ly Mail itself doing the censoring.' << this is not a necessary hypothesis, swedish mitm could easily smooth out the response times (by slowing, or, alternatively, caching, the victim site)
1587703;1482365646;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587680 << fwiw i stuck to using my old rusty one, until quite recently
1587704;1482365646;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 00:01 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587625 << you gotta appreciate scrutiny is very inelastic. many people used their own implementations ; discussion of others' versions only meaningfully starts after some localized familiarity etc. in any case "being qualified to even use v" is an iffy thing - seeing how it's a novel design, and the novelty is fundamental and conceptual, nobody is technically qualified to use one. you wouldn
1587705;1482365661;asciilifeform;and for no especially good reason.
1587706;1482365826;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform his reasoning is fucking broken ; same time means nothing, if he found difference it might've meant something
1587707;1482365835;asciilifeform;aha
1587708;1482365862;asciilifeform;but also the enemy could make the time difference come out to either direction, as he chooses.
1587709;1482365873;mircea_popescu;at least in principle.
1587710;1482365884;*;asciilifeform recalls the peculiar mitm from dulap-1
1587711;1482366110;*;BingoBoingo so far happy with end of the year lulz acceleration following slow early december
1587712;1482366130;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587685 << the simplest way to implement this is to iterate over the ~seals~, finding corresponding patches
1587713;1482366130;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 00:03 mod6: Essentially, during the verify_signatures subroutine, if a vpatch is found to NOT have a corresponding signature, death().
1587714;1482366317;mircea_popescu;not particularily correct ; should iterate over patches, check sealness ; act accordingly.
1587715;1482366336;mircea_popescu;im not sure it has to die when it encounters malformed patch (be it not signed or whatever), but anyway.
1587716;1482366337;asciilifeform;iterating over seals lets you produce the 'take seals only of so-and-such'
1587717;1482366349;mircea_popescu;so does iterating over patches.
1587718;1482366350;asciilifeform;you're stuck doing so anyway.
1587719;1482366388;asciilifeform;iterating over patches is O(N^2) (unless the files are correctly named, patch.nickname.sig, which we do, but imho is a bit of a cheat)
1587720;1482366396;asciilifeform;we did this thread.
1587721;1482366415;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry ?
1587722;1482366517;asciilifeform;!#s O(N^2)
1587723;1482366518;a111;21 results for "O(N^2)", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=O%28N%5E2%29
1587724;1482366619;mircea_popescu;yes ?
1587725;1482366622;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-18#1375120 << thread
1587726;1482366622;a111;Logged on 2016-01-18 15:35 ascii_butugychag: jurov: theoretically you can avoid using the name prior to .sig, but then you have to check ALL seals agains ALL patches ALWAYS and this is O(N^2)
1587727;1482366677;mircea_popescu;yes, i know the thread, i was in it. feel free to address http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-15#1238752 at any point eh.
1587728;1482366677;a111;Logged on 2015-08-15 17:46 mircea_popescu: why ?
1587729;1482366729;mircea_popescu;and patches are checked against seals ; not seals against patches.
1587730;1482366736;asciilifeform;because eventually mircea_popescu et al will gripe about 'this is dog slow'
1587731;1482366792;mircea_popescu;no they won't ; partly because we won't be doing anything idiotic like "giving random names to seals".
1587732;1482366824;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the current setup (with the patch.nickname.sig) is an artifact of the idiocy of pgp, where one cannot take the signature and extract a hash from it with which you can look up the patch from a manifest of patch hashes in O(NlogN)
1587733;1482366831;mircea_popescu;for every patch, check if patch sig by approved names is present. this isn't any sort of N^2 ; it's O(N*M) where N is the count of patches and M the count of approved signers.
1587734;1482366870;asciilifeform;tru
1587735;1482366882;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has it, it is O(NM)
1587736;1482366890;mircea_popescu;the disadvantage of being clever is that one will be surprised.
1587737;1482366892;asciilifeform;at least when using gpg.
1587738;1482366904;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: one more http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/BzhMJ/?raw=true
1587739;1482366910;mircea_popescu;well when we finally have better-pg, we may do different things, but really...
1587740;1482366927;pete_dushenski;bbl
1587741;1482367073;mod6;<+asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587685 << the simplest way to implement this is to iterate over the ~seals~, finding corresponding patches << <+mircea_popescu> not particularily correct ; should iterate over patches, check sealness ; act accordingly. << 'validate_seals' does this; iterates over patches, finds seals for patch, verifies or fails if bad ;; now dies if there are none.
1587742;1482367073;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 00:03 mod6: Essentially, during the verify_signatures subroutine, if a vpatch is found to NOT have a corresponding signature, death().
1587743;1482367093;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> im not sure it has to die when it encounters malformed patch (be it not signed or whatever), but anyway. << i was thinking this was simple because of this:
1587744;1482367135;asciilifeform;mod6: you ought to be able to press variant-wots (say, mod6-only) without having to also remove patches mod6  did not sign from patches dir
1587745;1482367146;asciilifeform;they should simply be ignored.
1587746;1482367146;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> there shouldn't be any flag - nor should it press unsigned things. && <+mircea_popescu> with the test key ? why not ? fucks with your workflow ?
1587747;1482367177;mod6;i think it's fine.  you make a testkey, you sign your test vpatches, you press & test, etc.  then we're using encryption everywhere.   and we fail fast.
1587748;1482367196;mod6;we don't not allow the oppertunity to continue without a signature on a vpatch.
1587749;1482367199;mircea_popescu;mod6 if it simply skips over the patches it can't find acceptable sigs for, it delivers asciilifeform 's thing above where you don't have to keep fucking around with the patch set.
1587750;1482367238;asciilifeform;it's what my original vtron did (when in normal operating mode)
1587751;1482367261;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mod6: you ought to be able to press variant-wots (say, mod6-only) without having to also remove patches mod6  did not sign from patches dir << now this.
1587752;1482367265;mircea_popescu;it should probably stop if it finds valid patch that can't be applied (mismatched hashes) - because by then your state is broken.
1587753;1482367268;mod6;this perhaps works as is, in a way.
1587754;1482367311;mod6;if you want 'mod6' only, you remove all other guys from your wot
1587755;1482367318;mod6;well, lemme check
1587756;1482367322;mod6;i can't recall.
1587757;1482367337;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: incidentally a vtron that has my 'origin' op, can check any tree for consistency simply by iterating over the files and running origin(hash_of_file)
1587758;1482367347;asciilifeform;at no point should the answer be a null set
1587759;1482367362;mircea_popescu;sounds about right yeah
1587760;1482367381;BingoBoingo;ty pete_dushenski
1587761;1482367419;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/skype-for-mac-includes-well-lubricated-back-orifice/ << Qntra - Skype For Mac Includes Well Lubricated Back Orifice
1587762;1482367444;mod6;ok so yah. if you only have 'mod6' in your wot, and you leave ~all~ of the sigs (from alf, mp, trinque, bc) in your .seals dir, then we throw an error and die.
1587763;1482367468;mod6;but if you get rid of everyone else's sigs from .seals, then it's fine and you can happily do 'mod6' tree.
1587764;1482367481;asciilifeform;again, i dun see why i should have to remove seals when i variant-wot
1587765;1482367486;asciilifeform;or to remove patches.
1587766;1482367511;mod6;haha. well.
1587767;1482367517;mircea_popescu;well he can run his v any way he pleases ; but yes it should prolly just drop the bad patch and move on
1587768;1482367518;mod6;i suspect that it isn't written that way.
1587769;1482367543;asciilifeform;i must have been the only one who actually used the variants thing, to date
1587770;1482367561;asciilifeform;this has been an interesting exercise, i had nfi that i was the only known user of most of the knobs...
1587771;1482367590;mircea_popescu;eh wouldja simmer down.
1587772;1482367596;asciilifeform;eh i'm not heated up
1587773;1482367605;asciilifeform;but now i gotta try other vtrons! ben_vulpes's , for instance
1587774;1482367610;asciilifeform;i wonder what was omitted there.
1587775;1482367664;mod6;i gather, to implement what is sort of discussed here, will take quite an overhaul
1587776;1482367672;asciilifeform;i'll point out that for so long as we have an agreed upon patch format, and can agree on a sigtron to use, with agreed pubkeys, 'each d00d has own vtron' worx fine
1587777;1482367694;mod6;and not that it shoudn't anyway, there are some things about my implementation that i do not appreciate looking back on it.
1587778;1482367697;asciilifeform;(given that no catastrophic braindamage, e.g. cyclic graph, is permitted)
1587779;1482367794;mod6;i want it to work the way that it is supposed to work.
1587780;1482367815;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes ; methodological objections are really of those three pillars. like "use ascii" or "the signatures are given TO BE USED" etc.
1587781;1482367818;mod6;which, is my fault for having a somewhat, apparently, limited grasp
1587782;1482367840;asciilifeform;mod6: relax a bit. recall, my original vtron didn't even check hashes post-patch
1587783;1482367845;mircea_popescu;mod6 no, the discussion is actually very productive in that it actually helps specify exactly what v is.
1587784;1482367866;mircea_popescu;such as in "what classes of objections can or can't be brought to a v implementation"
1587785;1482367888;mircea_popescu;that it eschews key checks is one thing ; that it dies on which condition is apparently a different thing.
1587786;1482367899;mod6;this is fair, and i agree.  i do want it to work the way it it should work.  not the way it does work if those are disjointed.  no way to get there, except through these kinds of investigations.
1587787;1482367923;mircea_popescu;the key being, that if you allow pressing without signatures, then git qualifies as a v implementation.
1587788;1482367940;mircea_popescu;whereas if you allow dieing in arbitrary condition, then whatever, you get a more restrictive v than other people.
1587789;1482367971;trinque;as an aside, an environment where "man makes own necessities" out of still simpler tools he can combine as he likes, strikes me as ideal.
1587790;1482367983;*;trinque wrote an mda yesterday because maildrop and procmail are dogshit.
1587791;1482367995;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i dun recall mine doing any verification
1587792;1482368007;ben_vulpes;beyond patches, that is.
1587793;1482368038;ben_vulpes;*signatures* i actually mean to say
1587794;1482368165;mod6;so what you're saying... is that i should be able to say "v press output_press_dir SOME_HEAD mircea_popescu"
1587795;1482368188;mod6;and in the context of trb, I would end up with, currently, just genesis.vpatch pressed out in 'output_press_dir'
1587796;1482368212;mod6;aside from the fact that I might have 69 people in my .wot, and 4000 sigs in my .seals dir.
1587797;1482368213;ben_vulpes;if by "mircea_popescu" you mean "only mircea_popescu's key in .wot"
1587798;1482368219;ben_vulpes;nono, .wot governs.
1587799;1482368280;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587787 << it most assuredly does not. git has hidden state.
1587800;1482368280;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 00:52 mircea_popescu: the key being, that if you allow pressing without signatures, then git qualifies as a v implementation.
1587801;1482368284;mircea_popescu;mod6 the idea is that you should be able to alter the end product by altering .wot rather than by altering .wot AND .patch or .seal
1587802;1482368313;mod6;so today, with my impl, you'd have to at minimum, get rid of 3999 sigs from .seals.  you could also, if you wanted to, get rid of 68 pub keys in your .wot.  iirc, that part isn't required tho.
1587803;1482368346;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: to be fair, .wot, .seals and patches apparently constitutes 'hidden state' today.
1587804;1482368347;mircea_popescu;mod6 in practice you'd just keep .seals_mp .seals_all .seals_alfmod6 etc and move them around
1587805;1482368365;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: in what sense are they hidden??? they are plain text files that YOU PUT THERE
1587806;1482368367;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i don't even want to open that discussion, it's fucking obvious they're equivalent but whatevers.
1587807;1482368367;asciilifeform;directly
1587808;1482368369;asciilifeform;explicitly
1587809;1482368397;mod6;mircea_popescu: aha. ok.
1587810;1482368484;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: and .git idem but let's not.
1587811;1482368492;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: fuck no
1587812;1482368502;asciilifeform;i have nfi what the crapola in .git does.
1587813;1482368515;asciilifeform;and i certainly did not put it there directly by hand.
1587814;1482368531;mod6;for completeness here is what happens today with my 'v', if you pull people out of .wot, but leave all the sigs in .seals: http://dpaste.com/1HYHBEA.txt
1587815;1482368560;ben_vulpes;imho v should not barf when patch and seal exist but key does not in wot
1587816;1482368563;mod6;not that it's correct, just for example of "where are we at?"
1587817;1482368579;mircea_popescu;barf = death() ?
1587818;1482368580;ben_vulpes;wot is a /filter/ on signature dir.
1587819;1482368583;asciilifeform;mod6: this is correct from one pov ('check patches first') but forbids variant wots.
1587820;1482368585;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: yes
1587821;1482368588;mod6;fwiw, and this may not be the correct way, but i think i just tried to clone alf's.
1587822;1482368596;asciilifeform;mine did not behave this way.
1587823;1482368614;mod6;ok.  see maybe there was something there that I didn't pick up on. :/
1587824;1482368641;ben_vulpes;so long as there is at least one signature for which v can import a corresponding key, that patch should press.
1587825;1482368654;asciilifeform;^
1587826;1482368654;mircea_popescu;i agree with the notion .wot is supposed to be a filter over .seals
1587827;1482368691;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> so long as there is at least one signature for a patch, for which signature v can import a corresponding key, on the basis of the wot, that patch should press. << ftfy.
1587828;1482368737;asciilifeform;noshit, where else could it get the key
1587829;1482368773;mod6;we are seriously way beyond 'noshit' territory.
1587830;1482368773;mircea_popescu;aite.
1587831;1482368789;mod6;if it were obvious, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.
1587832;1482368831;mod6;im like, mentally retarded.  i need things spelled out in explicit, literal forms. :]
1587833;1482368882;mircea_popescu;that's ok, i'm just waiting for phf to say something so i unrate him
1587834;1482368909;ben_vulpes;kek
1587835;1482369131;mod6;so let's back up a minute, cause i'm still trying to figure out what I need to do here...
1587836;1482369174;mod6;so mine, with only 'mod6' in .wot, calls death() when encountering a sig from a person not included in the wot.
1587837;1482369194;mod6;i could almost swear that we had a whole discussion on this before where we wanted it this way??
1587838;1482369201;mod6;however...
1587839;1482369232;mod6;what I should do, is ignore that sig, and continue iterating, collecting up all of the mod6 .sigs and then creating a v-tree from just those alone.
1587840;1482369249;asciilifeform;aha
1587841;1482369257;asciilifeform;this way you can do variant-wot presses.
1587842;1482369280;mod6;where's the camera crew?
1587843;1482369288;mod6;am i being punk'd?
1587844;1482369299;mod6;i gotta dig through the logs now.
1587845;1482369308;asciilifeform;wai everyone so tense.
1587846;1482369326;mod6;it's totally fine if that's how we want it.
1587847;1482369343;mod6;i just feel like we've been here before. like i have some pavalonian response from this.
1587848;1482369370;mod6;(former lumps from having this impl before, and then removing it to its current state)
1587849;1482369476;ben_vulpes;i'm pretty sure the design as described above is correct. the way i imagined this working in steady state is for patches and .seals to accumulate all of the patches and signatures thereof a user'd seen over all of history, and then the contents of .wot used to filter the patches and press used to pick a head.
1587850;1482369619;mod6;i am being punk'd
1587851;1482369644;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-21#1349689
1587852;1482369644;a111;Logged on 2015-12-21 22:15 mircea_popescu: so /me gives new girl task to press v, half hour ago. other than the url issue above, "hey what sigs should i put in here ?"
1587853;1482369646;ben_vulpes;and yes, this implies an o(n^2) worst case process in (or (map 'boolean (lambda (sig) (verify 'some_patch.vpatch' sig)))
1587854;1482369657;ben_vulpes;mod6: nobody is trolling
1587855;1482369682;mod6;read the link! that's exactly what it does right now, this very minute.
1587856;1482369720;ben_vulpes;no, that's death() ing on a patch for which the system had valid seals, yours and mine.
1587857;1482369736;ben_vulpes;just because mircea_popescu didn't complain about the failure at the time doesn't make it right.
1587858;1482369885;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587799 << this excusing us because we're the right team is ridiculous by now.
1587859;1482369885;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 00:58 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587787 << it most assuredly does not. git has hidden state.
1587860;1482369899;asciilifeform;wat
1587861;1482369910;ben_vulpes;trinque: augh no please no
1587862;1482369922;asciilifeform;trinque been drinkin' or wat
1587863;1482369970;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CBE0788A94B99B46A2AC2D42BBE157E14FCD5E21FB4C6B42AC319B2A978D89E3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2486...1113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '65.175.110.170 (ssh-rsa key from 65.175.110.170 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US MO)
1587864;1482369970;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E03B4EF8E133B56D2A25926C00E369EE3792631DC988331D73F46F8DA9570C04 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1579...5447 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '182.253.207.29 (ssh-rsa key from 182.253.207.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID JK)
1587865;1482370092;trinque;if V does not "verify sigs of >1 important people ~to me~ at each step of doing anything" where exactly does it diverge from git
1587866;1482370094;ben_vulpes;phf: can i get http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-November/000241.html in the experimental patchset in your viewer?
1587867;1482370117;phf;se
1587868;1482370119;trinque;less messy code is not enough
1587869;1482370126;phf;also http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF099-Grammar_Wizard.gif
1587870;1482370128;ben_vulpes;phf: ty
1587871;1482370162;trinque;and what, I have to be drinking to see this? spent pages criticizing the horrible, accidental evolution of cat.
1587872;1482370174;ben_vulpes;phf: elaborate on pbf link?
1587873;1482370197;trinque;but we can "just wante to press" because god's children
1587874;1482370238;asciilifeform;trinque: my original, unpublished vtron, only pressed (tracking the dependency flow), and user was expected to check the pgp sigs of the inputs, with bare hands, prior
1587875;1482370262;asciilifeform;then i decided that it could be useful to glue these ops together, so that variant-wot operation is possible.
1587876;1482370281;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu immediately realized what can be done with this knob and wrote, iirc , entire article re same
1587877;1482370332;asciilifeform;( recall, we had been trb-ing with exclusively signed patches since start of trb, but folx other than asciilifeform were having headache determining the correct order to apply in )
1587878;1482370334;phf;ben_vulpes: this was a general comment, but the cost of failure is so high, simple things have become needlessly complicated.
1587879;1482370377;trinque;internal consistency is not a huge ask.
1587880;1482370381;asciilifeform;phf: this is not wholly avoidable, imho, folx laugh at airplane chairs or surgical scalpels costing thousands of usd, but in some sense it is inevitable
1587881;1482370404;asciilifeform;the cost of failure - gets amortized.
1587882;1482370435;asciilifeform;and much better for it to be amortized in expensive chairs, than in total lack of risk-taking
1587883;1482370487;ben_vulpes;that there are 3 implementations of v is an indicator of healthy amounts of risk taking.
1587884;1482370505;asciilifeform;aha
1587885;1482370510;trinque;this squirming away from "why does the output not match the pages of ideology" is troubling.
1587886;1482370516;asciilifeform;i was addressing mod6's 'damn, why did i even try' lament
1587887;1482370537;asciilifeform;trinque: are you thinking of mod6's minor bug , or of some other
1587888;1482370586;asciilifeform;( the bug, as mircea_popescu iirc also pointed out, was in the direction of making his vtron ~stricter~, of forbidding entirely legit ops, so not catastrophic)
1587889;1482370597;ben_vulpes;trinque: i don't follow either
1587890;1482370661;mod6;im <+ben_vulpes> just because mircea_popescu didn't complain about the failure at the time doesn't make it right. << maybe.
1587891;1482370734;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> no, that's death() ing on a patch for which the system had valid seals, yours and mine. << this i dont agree with -- from a technical perspective.  it looks to me that girl had "ascii and mod6" in .wot, and when it came across Mr. P.'s genesis .sig, it honked.
1587892;1482370758;mod6;now, we not want that behviour any longer.
1587893;1482370773;mod6;but i'm trying to get down to brass tacks as much as possible.
1587894;1482370774;ben_vulpes;these are separate issues
1587895;1482370789;mod6;i'm happy to re-write/overhaul/whatever this thing.
1587896;1482370796;ben_vulpes;1) pressing vpatches absent signatures matching keys in .wot
1587897;1482370801;mod6;just wanna make sure we all understand what we want.
1587898;1482370822;ben_vulpes;2) death()-ing on signatures for which a key does not exist in .wot
1587899;1482370840;ben_vulpes;1) is incorrect imho and 2) also incorrect imho
1587900;1482370849;ben_vulpes;could be argued out of 2)
1587901;1482370867;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes had a quite complete exposition on my original vtron
1587902;1482370887;asciilifeform;iirc he a) fully understood how it behaves b) tendered no major objections
1587903;1482370889;ben_vulpes;which i wrote before putting down a single line of code.
1587904;1482370983;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: did your v exit when finding signatures without matching keys? i do not recall.
1587905;1482370998;mod6;i posit that it did indeed.
1587906;1482371004;mod6;infact, i stole that error message.
1587907;1482371016;asciilifeform;guess what, looks like the published version -- indeed did.
1587908;1482371044;asciilifeform;i ended up turning that into a warning, vs fatal, but it looks like i never posted this variant.
1587909;1482371046;ben_vulpes;then wot-variant presses were never possible with the originally released v?
1587910;1482371055;asciilifeform;apparently not!!
1587911;1482371070;ben_vulpes;then i object to it now.
1587912;1482371078;asciilifeform;so mod6 isn't hallucinating, he simply blindly copied my buggy original.
1587913;1482371079;mod6;let's fight about it.
1587914;1482371079;ben_vulpes;and argument ad that's how it was done does not carry
1587915;1482371083;mod6;lol
1587916;1482371120;trinque;my objects can be better stated as an irritation that the political considerations here do not seem to be driving the conversation.
1587917;1482371122;trinque;ben_vulpes: right
1587918;1482371124;trinque;*objections
1587919;1482371128;asciilifeform;trinque: expand
1587920;1482371160;trinque;V as conceived as a political weapon against the shitsucking github fuck does not work without the attribution the signatures provide
1587921;1482371170;asciilifeform;this is quite true
1587922;1482371200;trinque;my digestion of the notion of opposable signatures produces this output.
1587923;1482371267;phf;ben_vulpes: this subthread since your response to my original statement is one example of what i'm talking about. in this case none of the v implementations are on btcbase, because nobody wants to sign own hacks, because the cost of failure is too high.
1587924;1482371276;asciilifeform;nobody proposed, iirc, to begin to publish unsigned turds, or to accept same off the net and press, etc
1587925;1482371305;asciilifeform;phf: fwiw i signed mine on release
1587926;1482371310;trinque;but there is a place to do so, where there could be separation between the lab and the published-in-journal
1587927;1482371315;ben_vulpes;phf: asciilifeform signed his, iirc i signed mine
1587928;1482371326;mod6;mine is signed 69 times for sure.
1587929;1482371331;trinque;I have released several pieces of homegrown signed code
1587930;1482371335;ben_vulpes;with 'not battlefield ready' all over it, but nevertheless.
1587931;1482371338;phf;none of them are genesis + vpatch revisions.
1587932;1482371349;asciilifeform;phf: iirc mod6 made one
1587933;1482371354;trinque;and fwiw phf I merely said "do not come to me asking about phf", recently. I did not say further.
1587934;1482371357;ben_vulpes;phf: now tell me if that's sloth or fear
1587935;1482371384;phf;well, last time i brought it up with mod6 he said something along the lines of "i'm not ready to sign, because it's still work in progress"
1587936;1482371395;mod6;creating a genesis is a different thing too; v create a genesis of v.  which i did work out, but alas, as you are eluding to, i never published because was nervous that it hadn't been very well audited yet.
1587937;1482371405;phf;^
1587938;1482371408;asciilifeform;cost of failure, sometimes you simply live with. i signed FUCKGOATS, and it is a 'sapper makes 1 mistake' item, it is not possible to repair the units if i had made a mistake.
1587939;1482371494;mod6;and who knows, imho, there's no gigantic rush to make a genesis for v.  especially when we're still trying to work out how it should work.
1587940;1482371497;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-24#1383818 << i believe some are laboring under the impression that eggog == hole
1587941;1482371497;a111;Logged on 2016-01-24 03:21 mircea_popescu: to put it in you'll have to sign it. if it turns out later to have a hole, people will negrate you.
1587942;1482371519;trinque;real quick what the hell is eggog
1587943;1482371526;ben_vulpes;russification of 'error'
1587944;1482371538;ben_vulpes;r sounds like g to them or something
1587945;1482371548;asciilifeform;trinque: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg/400px-Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg << them
1587946;1482371557;asciilifeform;sound had 0 to do with it
1587947;1482371570;asciilifeform;it was orcs blindly copying human tech
1587948;1482371579;ben_vulpes;scuse me
1587949;1482371581;phf;ben_vulpes: see i'm not even sure which one of you is kidding. ~possibly~ neither :D
1587950;1482371602;ben_vulpes;phf: i'm just wrong
1587951;1482371622;ben_vulpes;completely misremembering ru alphabet lessons, apparently.
1587952;1482371633;*;trinque now meta-eggog'd
1587953;1482371675;phf;ben_vulpes: well, actually "r" pronounced as "g" is an infamous yiddish lisp
1587954;1482371687;ben_vulpes;we digress
1587955;1482371702;mod6;anyway, yes.
1587956;1482371713;mod6;i do want that traceibility from V, of my V.
1587957;1482371744;mod6;And I'm happy to embark on a genesis once we resolve these current problems and the testing and review by lords is complete.
1587958;1482371815;ben_vulpes;i hold that exiting on discovery of a seal with no corresponding key in .wot puts an unnecessary burden on the operator to maintain system state.
1587959;1482371822;mod6;i like the idea that you've got 'mod6 & ben_vulpes' in your .wot, and that you hvae 69,000 sigs in your .seals dir, and only select out the ones that match the .wot.
1587960;1482371852;mod6;that seems fine, and yes, less painful to me.
1587961;1482371880;phf;ben_vulpes: well, the point of V that has been celebrated is its ability to support a scientific dialog. you say something, i make a response, etc. this thread was literally about three different versions, one of them is stale, one of them is unreleased. there's not really an easy way to point to the line and say "oh this is what this does" etc. i claim that the source of this problem is fear. the genesis has to be perfect for all
1587962;1482371881;phf;eternity, or else!1
1587963;1482371894;asciilifeform;there is a 'harem-v' and a 'forum-v'
1587964;1482371908;asciilifeform;i dun recall anyone, any time recently, disputing the functionality of the latter
1587965;1482371918;asciilifeform;all of the 'bickening' seems to concern 'harem-v'
1587966;1482371927;mod6;phf: naw. even mircea_popescu has encouraged me to release it, even if it has warts.
1587967;1482371931;asciilifeform;i.e. the mechanism whereby you press a set for own consumption
1587968;1482371935;mod6;im just trying to minimize the warts a bit.
1587969;1482371943;trinque;ben_vulpes: what does the thing do if not exit?
1587970;1482371978;trinque;presses the thing sealed because ambiguous somebody signed?
1587971;1482371986;ben_vulpes;yes.
1587972;1482371993;phf;well, since collective reaction is "tis but a scratch" i have nothing else to say, and will happily await mircea_popescu's unrate
1587973;1482372018;ben_vulpes;trinque: all three implementations show which keys signed which patches in flow output.
1587974;1482372041;asciilifeform;all 3 implementation were also (correctly) 'fail-deadly'
1587975;1482372062;trinque;how is this effective use of crypto at all?
1587976;1482372068;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: 'press if no signature is found'?
1587977;1482372073;ben_vulpes;i do not believe that mine did that.
1587978;1482372089;asciilifeform;that is, i know of no case where an unsealed, or invalidly sealed, or sealed by nonexistent pubkey, patch, would be pressed without the user having explicitly flipped the red cover and disabled the reactor coolant pump
1587979;1482372121;ben_vulpes;we just saw that in v.pl, did we not?
1587980;1482372127;ben_vulpes;instigated the whole brouhaha
1587981;1482372177;*;asciilifeform goes and rereads mod6's thread
1587982;1482372205;trinque;ben_vulpes: what keys, you said you don't have them anywhere
1587983;1482372218;ben_vulpes;trinque: if all vpatches from genesis to HEAD carry a signature corresponding to a key in .wot, v presses. that signatures exist in .seals for people i don't choose to put the key for into .wot should not matter.
1587984;1482372249;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: right you are. his - did
1587985;1482372252;ben_vulpes;and sure, if .wot is the empty set, return true ;)
1587986;1482372270;ben_vulpes;error, really. making a null set joke.
1587987;1482372301;phf;ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/patches/mod6_privkey_tools
1587988;1482372348;phf;^ a regrind of http://btcbase.org/patches/funken_prikey_tools ?
1587989;1482372364;mod6;with some minor tweaks
1587990;1482372382;ben_vulpes;phf: thank you
1587991;1482372410;phf;ah, yeah i see. ok i'll keep funken one in experimental too, and move it to deprecated eventually
1587992;1482372433;trinque;if I am truthfully the only one present that sees parts of the hard definition of this thing falling off all the time I'll leave it there.
1587993;1482372433;ben_vulpes;mod6: aha, privkey_tools descends from the low_s and testnet patches
1587994;1482372451;trinque;but I cannot see *why* they should other than "I just want to"
1587995;1482372463;ben_vulpes;trinque: please say what hard definitions are lost.
1587996;1482372464;asciilifeform;trinque: if you'd like to take a stab at a formal definition, i promise to read
1587997;1482372482;trinque;were they not in the logs?
1587998;1482372495;asciilifeform;formal definitions don't live in the logs
1587999;1482372502;asciilifeform;gotta write actual article trinque
1588000;1482372514;ben_vulpes;trinque: best i saw was that you want more than one seal and i'm content with one
1588001;1482372515;trinque;I see other folks here discussing in logs.
1588002;1482372533;asciilifeform;when we discuss in the logs, it can be many things, but not formal definition.
1588003;1482372543;phf;( http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=experimental&search=_tools )
1588004;1482372631;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587898 << this destroys the ~who~ of each seal, which matters
1588005;1482372631;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:40 ben_vulpes: 2) death()-ing on signatures for which a key does not exist in .wot
1588006;1482372669;trinque;you do not trust the seal; you trust the identity
1588007;1482372704;trinque;otherwise yes, asciilifeform is right that if this doesn't matter, just have a thing that presses patches with hashes in the m
1588008;1482372729;ben_vulpes;one can have either "die on discovery of seal for which wot lacks key" or "wot variant press"
1588009;1482372755;trinque;but first the definition
1588010;1482372768;trinque;does it matter or not who signed?
1588011;1482372804;ben_vulpes;of course it does, that's what .wot is for.
1588012;1482372821;ben_vulpes;i reserve the right to hold onto gavins patches and never press them by use of .wot.
1588013;1482372850;trinque;why is V for your private perversions? lel
1588014;1482372853;ben_vulpes;i get the impression i disastrously fail to understand your point, trinque .
1588015;1482372920;ben_vulpes;i will motherfucking *not* shuffle both patches/* and .wot/* around when i want to press. this is stupid and carves off a whole space of adjacent possible.
1588016;1482372959;trinque;the thing is a political tool, and either does or does not acheive its desired effects
1588017;1482373031;ben_vulpes;what purposes are these
1588018;1482373046;trinque;that is not what I said
1588019;1482373057;trinque;it aims to cause you to do certain things
1588020;1482373069;ben_vulpes;these things?
1588021;1482373089;ben_vulpes;lol "it's purpose is to cause"
1588022;1482373090;trinque;attribute changes to the definitions of words with your ass
1588023;1482373145;ben_vulpes;that did not parse over here
1588024;1482373207;trinque;one can say the purpose of the bomb was to explode over there but that's ridiculously backwards
1588025;1482373224;trinque;I put it there and chemical reactions happened and so on.
1588026;1482373313;trinque;V is a harsh constraint upon the programmer that says that his acts will be unavoidably attributable to him, and those that vouched for him.
1588027;1482373323;trinque;"push this button to make it stop hurting" has no place in the tool
1588028;1482373325;trinque;make another tool
1588029;1482373340;ben_vulpes;let's rewind: what does trinque miss when v finds a seal for a vpatch for which it doesn't find a key and proceeds merrily, provided it does find *a* seal for the patch that corresponds to a key in .wot?
1588030;1482373384;trinque;what
1588031;1482373398;trinque;are you saying lean on the gpg keyring then?
1588032;1482373425;trinque;otherwise I could swear that was the same thing twice
1588033;1482373455;asciilifeform;in all extant vtrons, gpg keyring is nulled at boot
1588034;1482373464;asciilifeform;(it gets a temp dir jail)
1588035;1482373468;trinque;yes, so, how do I parse that statement.
1588036;1482373500;asciilifeform;trinque: a patch, so long as there exists 1 seal for it, and that seal corresponds to a key in your active wot -- is valid.
1588037;1482373502;asciilifeform;and pressable.
1588038;1482373509;ben_vulpes;^^
1588039;1482373510;trinque;oh christ
1588040;1482373511;trinque;yes
1588041;1482373526;mod6;i think, he's saying, what is the benefit of V honking when it doesn't find a key in your wot that matches a seal in your seal dir, provided that you don't pull a mod6.
1588042;1482373537;asciilifeform;a seal, on the other hand, floating about without an active pubkey, for for that matter without a corresponding patch, is inert.
1588043;1482373544;ben_vulpes;^^
1588044;1482373549;trinque;we had just discussed pressing things with no sig
1588045;1482373555;trinque;and I was all hot and bothered
1588046;1482373570;trinque;thank you for your patience gentlemen
1588047;1482373577;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587898
1588048;1482373577;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:40 ben_vulpes: 2) death()-ing on signatures for which a key does not exist in .wot
1588049;1482373587;ben_vulpes;anytime trinque
1588050;1482373604;asciilifeform;trinque: there were 2 separate cases where this happened. mod6's buggy vtron (which he fixed today), and mine when the self-appendectomy-time-turn-off-pain-receptor switch flipped.
1588051;1482373609;ben_vulpes;i'm changing diapers over here, it's a wonder that even asciilifeform can make sense of what i'm saying.
1588052;1482373643;mod6;i proposed a fix for mine. i think it was ultimiately rejected.
1588053;1482373697;mod6;it sounds like everyone wants instead, a general overhaul to get to the 'wot variant press' instead, which would also fix the bug, because these vpatches, without a corresponding seal, would simply be ignored.
1588054;1482373756;mod6;i apologize for this oversight about the WILD patches.
1588055;1482373775;ben_vulpes;provided the implementation fails if any patch in the flow has *no* signatures from keys in .wot, that sounds right.
1588056;1482373804;ben_vulpes;(and in the absence of a WILD boolean, asciilifeform's pain-receptor-switch)
1588057;1482373806;mod6;i thought you didn't want it to fail.
1588058;1482373815;mod6;i thought that you just wanted to it to be left out of any possible flow.
1588059;1482373839;asciilifeform;mod6: 'leave out of all possible flow' is the correct answer.
1588060;1482373896;ben_vulpes;i think this is 'implementation detail'.
1588061;1482373924;ben_vulpes;well, hang on. if patches with no sigs are omitted from flow, they won't show up as WILD in the flow, correct?
1588062;1482373933;ben_vulpes;they should still appear in the flow but marked as wild.
1588063;1482373939;mod6;no
1588064;1482373944;mod6;they will never, ever show up.
1588065;1482373961;mod6;you will, you must, have everything signed for it to show up in a pressable flow.
1588066;1482373978;ben_vulpes;pressable being operative word there.
1588067;1482373988;ben_vulpes;"flow" refers to the antecedent chain, nothing else.
1588068;1482373998;mod6;this is why they exist in the first place, these WILD vpatches, because my impl wasn't written with this in mind. i was more written with the idea that a guy would place things in .wot/.seals/patches by hand and would know what is what.
1588069;1482374027;mod6;but i apologize, and see that this is the wrong way.  and there is a better way.
1588070;1482374053;ben_vulpes;the antecedent chain can be constructed without ever needing to refer to the signing of patches, and imho should show all patches in the flow, alongside which keys signed them and if none then marked as wild
1588071;1482374058;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> pressable being operative word there. << it is inconsequencial.
1588072;1482374062;ben_vulpes;as asciilifeform's original and mine did.
1588073;1482374068;mod6;if you were to print the flow, it would still not show up.
1588074;1482374075;mod6;the printable flow, is the same as the pressable flow.
1588075;1482374084;mod6;and this would be predicated upon who is in your .wot.
1588076;1482374098;ben_vulpes;flow is simply the directed acyclic graph of patches, and is *not* predicated on wot contents.
1588077;1482374104;asciilifeform;the only time a vtron must hard-fail, is when it is impossible for it to operate in finite time, i.e. the case where it detects a graph cycle.
1588078;1482374105;ben_vulpes;wot filters what may be pressed.
1588079;1482374115;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> flow is simply the directed acyclic graph of patches, and is *not* predicated on wot contents. << disagree.
1588080;1482374122;mod6;it is completely dependant on this.
1588081;1482374155;ben_vulpes;why?
1588082;1482374159;asciilifeform;variant wot can alter flow, but only by disrupting it
1588083;1482374178;asciilifeform;(say a necessary link in a chain is torn out because you nixed a wot key)
1588084;1482374184;mod6;because why would i want gavin's vpatch stuck in the middle of my flow, if he's not in my wot?
1588085;1482374209;mod6;pressable or printable, doesn't matter.  the wot is the dictator.
1588086;1482374234;ben_vulpes;fact remains that the dag can be constructed without reference to the wot.
1588087;1482374245;mod6;it *can*, but shouldn't be.
1588088;1482374246;ben_vulpes;that we print it as a list is an unfortunate accident.
1588089;1482374259;asciilifeform;i am failing to discern what, if anything, is in dispute here, so i will bbl. possibly it will be more evident from the log.
1588090;1482374288;mod6;ben_vulpes: i actually love that feature.
1588091;1482374292;ben_vulpes;mod6: may construct his flow and press list in his v impl however he wants
1588092;1482374301;mod6;lol, anyway.
1588093;1482374320;ben_vulpes;but if it doesn't show me which patches are lacking sigs, that strikes me as a bug.
1588094;1482374365;ben_vulpes;and this can only be done by calculating the dag and then indicating who signed which patches.
1588095;1482374452;mod6;i mean, we could do it that way... where the printable flow tells you which do not have sigs, but then impl-wise, they must be two different lists as to not inadvertantly press out a WILD vpatch.  that, or re-check the flow at press time.
1588096;1482374466;mod6;im tired.
1588097;1482374480;mod6;*sigh*
1588098;1482374482;mod6;bbl
1588099;1482377622;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CBE0788A94B99B46A2AC2D42BBE157E14FCD5E21FB4C6B42AC319B2A978D89E3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1458...4139 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '65.175.110.170 (ssh-rsa key from 65.175.110.170 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US MO)
1588100;1482377622;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1D77F4C7868849BC95ADA7245FCF237AE9E3EB0EE252A3D64977CA928A368836 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1267...4229 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.245.199.7 (ssh-rsa key from 183.245.199.7 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
1588101;1482377622;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5810DDB9F5DF64147C3432C7E02C87609AA60835BCB64D78955C8A97F912C0F4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1267...4229 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.245.198.40 (ssh-rsa key from 183.245.198.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
1588102;1482377622;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E03B4EF8E133B56D2A25926C00E369EE3792631DC988331D73F46F8DA9570C04 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1471...7653 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '182.253.207.29 (ssh-rsa key from 182.253.207.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID JK)
1588103;1482380626;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1588104;1482380635;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 846.47, vol: 10974.12183947 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 829.796, vol: 8476.20638 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 841.0, vol: 16145.49930604 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 860.913408, vol: 4900738.35200000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 843.411, vol: 2235.76989277 | Volume-weighted last average: 860.754879403
1588105;1482384456;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all --currency rmb
1588106;1482384477;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 5977.89, vol: 4959248.93950000 | Volume-weighted last average: 5977.89
1588107;1482384854;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/coinbase-login-woes-rumored-as-price-reported-by-fiatbitcoin-interfaces-moves/ << Qntra - Coinbase Login Woes Rumored As Price Reported By fiat/Bitcoin Interfaces Moves
1588108;1482385266;mircea_popescu;!!gettrust phf
1588109;1482385266;deedbot;L1: 4, L2: 16 by 10 connections.
1588110;1482385275;mircea_popescu;!!rated phf
1588111;1482385275;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated phf 4 at 2016/05/17 03:19:21 << his lordship the lord chancellor
1588112;1482385282;mircea_popescu;:D
1588113;1482385536;mircea_popescu;!!up Guest36448
1588114;1482385537;deedbot;Guest36448 voiced for 30 minutes.
1588115;1482385763;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587847 << fish out the links, should be informative.
1588116;1482385763;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:15 mod6: i just feel like we've been here before. like i have some pavalonian response from this.
1588117;1482385854;mircea_popescu;mod6 i don't get what http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587851 is saying ? it links to a congratulatory message back in 2015 ?
1588118;1482385854;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:20 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-21#1349689
1588119;1482385894;mircea_popescu;i was saying "this is working correctly", did it end up reading the opposite ?
1588120;1482385992;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587857 << he has it exactly, it passed as a "minor problem, whatevs."
1588121;1482385992;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:22 ben_vulpes: just because mircea_popescu didn't complain about the failure at the time doesn't make it right.
1588122;1482386585;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587892 << fwiw first girl (there quoted) put my sig in the dir ; but for subsequent passes the item was rewritten to skip unwotted sigs rather than die.
1588123;1482386585;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:39 mod6: now, we not want that behviour any longer.
1588124;1482386710;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587887 << he's thinking of your "wild" pressings. "unprincipled" being a much better word.
1588125;1482386710;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:35 asciilifeform: trinque: are you thinking of mod6's minor bug , or of some other
1588126;1482386851;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587908 << heh! i think a lot of "well everyone knows this" is going on wrt v ; owing to its deliberately-variant, homebrew nature.
1588127;1482386851;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:44 asciilifeform: i ended up turning that into a warning, vs fatal, but it looks like i never posted this variant.
1588128;1482386885;mircea_popescu;more or less loud recalibrations as practice crystallizes to be expected in such circumstance.
1588129;1482387112;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587923 << i am fwiw satisfied that it's qutie mroe than this : vs aren't on btcbase because they don't fundamentally belong on btcbase, because unlike public trb "we all use this" they're private "my girl will dance the way ~i~ want her to dance and stfu". there's a much more limited set of rules re what vtrons should do ; than re what trbs should do.
1588130;1482387112;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:47 phf: ben_vulpes: this subthread since your response to my original statement is one example of what i'm talking about. in this case none of the v implementations are on btcbase, because nobody wants to sign own hacks, because the cost of failure is too high.
1588131;1482387192;mircea_popescu;i perceive no benefit to, eg, getting everyone to use mod6's or alf's or anyone else's v implementation, as opposed to the present situation ; just as i perceive no advantage to getting everyone to make "his own" trb.
1588132;1482387215;mircea_popescu;this opposition may be less categorical than it seems here, and may evolve in time, but i suspect even if a continuous function it'll never be convex.
1588133;1482387344;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/us-steel-refocuses-in-anticipation-of-great-again/ << Qntra - US Steel Refocuses In Anticipation Of Great Again
1588134;1482387386;BingoBoingo;^ Chuckle fodder
1588135;1482387421;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587963 .
1588136;1482387421;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:58 asciilifeform: there is a 'harem-v' and a 'forum-v'
1588137;1482387479;mircea_popescu;i suppose it's possible that as technology matures it goes from this stage to "yawn, whatever, just use the cannonical version". so there's possibly that path there.
1588138;1482387563;mircea_popescu;and on the other hand, i suppose it's entirely possible that if a years-made-wiser satoshi tried to release bitcoin, it'd have been done in the manner of how we did vtrons not in the manner of how he did bitcoin, ie, "here's what should happen - anyone who wants to participate make one"
1588139;1482387584;mircea_popescu;so there's no real strong categorical difference from theory. but in practice it sure as fuck exists.
1588140;1482387634;mircea_popescu;bitcoin'd certainly be infinitely stronger were it the result of a concurrent development effort in this style.
1588141;1482387660;asciilifeform;fwiw i deliberately did not polish my vtron, wajted to give folx a turn in the sun
1588142;1482387677;asciilifeform;*wanted
1588143;1482387682;mircea_popescu;(not that this consideration has much practical value - outside of #trilema the community to do such thing doesn't exist, and so wasn't at the time an option)
1588144;1482387775;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo there's absolutely no way in hell anything in the us can compete with mittal.
1588145;1482387841;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Of course it can't compete, but it can Pretend!
1588146;1482387854;mircea_popescu;Preeet End!
1588147;1482387885;mircea_popescu;it's funny, you know, after ~2500 years, steel went back home to pradesh
1588148;1482387940;BingoBoingo;Seriously. Anyways the Granite City and Gary Mill are as described, opened enough to get machines warm.
1588149;1482387966;BingoBoingo;Anything beyond waits for Trumpreich's credit card
1588150;1482388087;BingoBoingo;But yes, steel seems to want to be made in India
1588151;1482388236;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587944 << this symbol Г is G (or perhaps V) in russian ; but also used for rendering r on one of those early displays. so "Error" looked to teh russian like for some reason it says eggog.
1588152;1482388236;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:52 ben_vulpes: r sounds like g to them or something
1588153;1482388263;mircea_popescu;which is irresistibly funny somehow so it survived.
1588154;1482388351;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: dunno if you heard but praxair and linde are merging
1588155;1482388359;BingoBoingo;Oh, ty
1588156;1482388372;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587945 << ah there it is. so alf, of course my head read "kleptronica" for some reason.
1588157;1482388372;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:52 asciilifeform: trinque: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg/400px-Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg << them
1588158;1482388378;ben_vulpes;also nfi how this fits into your agricultural fanfic
1588159;1482388389;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes dun worry about it, he'll find a way.
1588160;1482388406;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: yeah i figured, it's why he has it now
1588161;1482388426;mircea_popescu;transgenic BingoBoingoian agrofanfiction ftw.
1588162;1482388426;ben_vulpes;biz-commentary-cum-agricultural-fanfiction is my favorite new genre of 2016
1588163;1482388438;BingoBoingo;locally Praxair is known for exploding (literally) in the 1990s
1588164;1482388443;ben_vulpes;hyu
1588165;1482388498;BingoBoingo;http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/06/25/10-years-ago-praxair-explosion-in-lafayette-square/
1588166;1482388582;BingoBoingo;Anyways its not fanfic if its true
1588167;1482388595;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587935 << upon review of mine, it simply sucked horrendously and i suspect that i knew at some level at the time.
1588168;1482388595;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:49 phf: well, last time i brought it up with mod6 he said something along the lines of "i'm not ready to sign, because it's still work in progress"
1588169;1482388612;BingoBoingo;Seriously, no one wants fucking bentgrass outside of a putting green
1588170;1482388714;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586531 << i don't recall the proposed tests, actually. i mulled on this for a bit, am reluctant to try any sort of implementation until i finish the sqlator which a) is probably just sunk cost fallacy rearing its head, as i've done not much there but design the schema and prep a massive ingest job and b) has now been bumped down my todo list *again* in favor of vtronic
1588171;1482388714;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 13:18 mircea_popescu: btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ?
1588172;1482388716;ben_vulpes;bloodsports
1588173;1482388721;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587954 << dirges!
1588174;1482388721;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:54 ben_vulpes: we digress
1588175;1482388754;BingoBoingo;Eggog dirges are the sound of the season.
1588176;1482388812;ben_vulpes;chiptune christmas, if you want to give any olds a migrane
1588177;1482388818;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes the bright idea was http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481832 and the test needed is to check wtf happens if you symlink the txn to the block tree
1588178;1482388818;a111;Logged on 2016-06-13 23:48 mircea_popescu: and there's symlinks if anyone wants to alias.
1588179;1482388843;mircea_popescu;you'd end up with (as proposed there) a directory tree like 20 layers deep, with thousands of symlinks in each.
1588180;1482388877;mircea_popescu;this way you don't actually have to ~index~ anything, if you wish to see where txn 1234567890 was included in a block, you go to /12/34/56/7890 which points to block x
1588181;1482388878;ben_vulpes;sure yeah, i remember the design pretty well
1588182;1482388897;mircea_popescu;ok so a) gotta see if ext2 / ext4 CAN EVEN HOLD this many symlinks. like, at all.
1588183;1482388906;mircea_popescu;and b) wtf happens once you load a drive with this nuttery.
1588184;1482388920;mircea_popescu;afaik this is entirely unwalked ground, for all the foss bs about million eyes.
1588185;1482388935;ben_vulpes;million flies, maybe. infinite symlinks, guaranteed not.
1588186;1482388946;mircea_popescu;why not ?
1588187;1482388952;ben_vulpes;knowing nothing about fsen, i doubt even reiser can handle infinite symlinks.
1588188;1482388961;mircea_popescu;why ?
1588189;1482388974;ben_vulpes;because every open source anything i've ever touched has failed in precisely these sorts of extreme use cases
1588190;1482388979;ben_vulpes;a rough heuristic, granted
1588191;1482388985;mircea_popescu;more importantly, why is this not ~exactly~ like saying "doh, of course you can't fill a drive with text files". dude what.
1588192;1482389006;ben_vulpes;fill, sure. but an /infinite number/ thereof?
1588193;1482389014;mircea_popescu;well infinite here means "to fill the disk".
1588194;1482389032;mircea_popescu;obv you can't store infinite data in finite hard drive, i came to terms with that
1588195;1482389042;mircea_popescu;(after some early experimentation, i confess)
1588196;1482389057;ben_vulpes;lol yes, most boys
1588197;1482389081;mircea_popescu;aaaanyway. mimi's in a fine position to try this out, attach old drive, write script to spit them out as per schema, see what occurs.
1588198;1482389093;mircea_popescu;profile seek times, whatevs reasonable testage once the artefact's prepared.
1588199;1482389132;ben_vulpes;surely a symlink wouldn't eat more than a few bytes now would it
1588200;1482389152;ben_vulpes;few hundred?
1588201;1482389156;mircea_popescu;in theory the above should be uberefficient sqling of a blockchain
1588202;1482389167;ben_vulpes;that is a very liberal use of the acronym
1588203;1482389171;mircea_popescu;in practice i'm in two waters about it, wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing catches fire.
1588204;1482389182;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes why ?
1588205;1482389199;mircea_popescu;union is implemented via cat and ls!!!1
1588206;1482389208;ben_vulpes;there *is* an ansi standard for sql
1588207;1482389219;mircea_popescu;which part am i breaking ?
1588208;1482389243;ben_vulpes;dude cat and ls are not relational algebra
1588209;1482389246;ben_vulpes;quit fuckin with my head
1588210;1482389249;mircea_popescu;says who
1588211;1482389272;ben_vulpes;they're barely-compiling c tools in unix land
1588212;1482389278;*;mircea_popescu holds awk in reserve just in case.
1588213;1482389286;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i'm going to need that gas mask
1588214;1482389294;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes oh im sorry, and your sql is written in what, malbolge ? my my aren't we speshul.
1588215;1482389314;ben_vulpes;it's a very special haskellian snowflake that makes it so i don't have to think about that so nyah
1588216;1482389329;mircea_popescu;barely-compiling c isn't good enough for us. oh, no, mommy i need my special asm skirt for THIS sql stuff!
1588217;1482389346;ben_vulpes;someone else entertain the man
1588218;1482389477;BingoBoingo;Don't forget the dirty Pascal panties!
1588219;1482389914;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587972 << it's altogether unclear where did you get this "celebrated is its ability to support a scientific dialog" ; got a link or something ? seems more the case what was celebrated was its ability to put a wrench through imperial-style "scientific dialog" where "we dindu nuttin wrong".
1588220;1482389914;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 01:59 phf: well, since collective reaction is "tis but a scratch" i have nothing else to say, and will happily await mircea_popescu's unrate
1588221;1482389925;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/praxair-buying-linde-renaming-self-linde-in-industrial-gas-consolidation/ << Qntra - Praxair Buying Linde, Renaming Self Linde In Industrial Gas Consolidation
1588222;1482389936;BingoBoingo;^ For herr vulpes
1588223;1482390103;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587985 << lol holy shit sherlock. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583928 with bells and whistles. how about it simply fails to start if .wot is empty.
1588224;1482390103;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:04 ben_vulpes: and sure, if .wot is the empty set, return true ;)
1588225;1482390103;a111;Logged on 2016-12-16 12:09 mircea_popescu: but i can see why this is practically obnoxious.
1588226;1482390176;ben_vulpes;'twas a joke
1588227;1482390380;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588010 << i can't grok what the dispute is here.
1588228;1482390380;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:12 trinque: does it matter or not who signed?
1588229;1482390408;ben_vulpes;it gets resolved
1588230;1482390440;mircea_popescu;a ok
1588231;1482390607;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588053 << sounds right yeah.
1588232;1482390607;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:28 mod6: it sounds like everyone wants instead, a general overhaul to get to the 'wot variant press' instead, which would also fix the bug, because these vpatches, without a corresponding seal, would simply be ignored.
1588233;1482390659;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588065 << yes.
1588234;1482390659;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:32 mod6: you will, you must, have everything signed for it to show up in a pressable flow.
1588235;1482390702;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588074 << also yes.
1588236;1482390702;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:34 mod6: the printable flow, is the same as the pressable flow.
1588237;1482390827;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588093 << why the fuck. if they're lacking sigs they're not even patches.
1588238;1482390827;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:38 ben_vulpes: but if it doesn't show me which patches are lacking sigs, that strikes me as a bug.
1588239;1482390845;mircea_popescu;should it also show you the contents of your catpics folder, in case maybe you wanted to do some clicking ?
1588240;1482390904;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588097 << dun sweat it mod6 ! tomorrow is another friday!
1588241;1482390904;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 02:41 mod6: *sigh*
1588242;1482391063;ben_vulpes;i expect it to be a royal pain to run down "which patch is missing sigs and breaking the flow from genesis to whatever"
1588243;1482391077;ben_vulpes;without a flow that renders all patches. but fine
1588244;1482391163;mircea_popescu;but how do you get there in the first place.
1588245;1482391180;mircea_popescu;"i ended up with a woman in my bed i don't know." "how ?"
1588246;1482391183;ben_vulpes;that'd be why it's fine
1588247;1482391188;mircea_popescu;mk.
1588248;1482391192;ben_vulpes;no pressing drunk
1588249;1482391283;mircea_popescu;moreover if you say press kimkardassian and it says "failed - parishilton not found" then it is somewhat likely you forgot to sign blondy.
1588250;1482391410;ben_vulpes;a few minutes of thinking while working on something related did clear this up for ben_vulpes
1588251;1482391413;jurov;mircea_popescu: ext4 has 256Binodes, and "The target of a symbolic link will be stored in inode if the target string is less than 60 bytes long."
1588252;1482391445;jurov;not sure how to shovel tx/block id into 60 bytes
1588253;1482391736;jurov;*shoehorn
1588254;1482391945;jurov;also, there is limit of 2^32 inodes, even in 64-bit mode
1588255;1482392127;jurov;and to give my 2c also on sql, while it's possible to use some portable standardized ansi sql subset, essential stuff like prepared queries need a database driver
1588256;1482392191;jurov;to introduce it into trb would, in my understanding, would make folks apoplectic
1588257;1482392217;ben_vulpes;dun worry, no such is on the table
1588258;1482392495;jurov;k
1588259;1482392763;ben_vulpes;jurov: sql just falls out of "i shall make tmsr a block explorer", no more, no less.
1588260;1482396389;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski: in re graphite, "meaningfully stand behind their Q" perhaps?
1588261;1482407414;ben_vulpes;mod6, asciilifeform, trinque, phf, mircea_popescu, and anyone else tracking vtronic gnashing: i dusted off and rewrote my cl V implementation. i'll follow up sometime tomorrow with more demo usage, and a more robust demonstration of wot-variant pressing. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/juTpM/?raw=true
1588262;1482407466;ben_vulpes;from 340 lines down to 224.
1588263;1482407841;ben_vulpes;and yes, phf, when i am not exhausted i will also produce a genesis.
1588264;1482408584;shinohai;neato ben_vulpes (on the lisp V)
1588265;1482408600;*;shinohai reads the giant logz
1588266;1482409527;davout;ben_vulpes: what's the sqlator?
1588267;1482413310;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Uoyyb/?raw=true
1588268;1482413311;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1588269;1482413524;trinque;ben_vulpes: wooo! I'll test that soon as I have coffee in hand.
1588270;1482414260;*;shinohai passes trinque some coffee [~]D
1588271;1482415340;trinque;cheers
1588272;1482418246;mircea_popescu;"¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "Se que es una especie de almacenamiento de dinero virtual , que por un dólar te dan 2 o 3 bitcoins o algo así , que básicamente se usa para comprar online y conseguir descuentos creo"
1588273;1482418249;mircea_popescu;sounds about right.
1588274;1482418340;shinohai;"descuentos" lel
1588275;1482418346;mircea_popescu;jurov in principle the address of a block is something like /44/4600 for the latest, so 2char dir + 4 char name
1588276;1482418385;mircea_popescu;unless you want to store them by hash, in which case of course it's at most 65 chars, though because of difficulty i expect it should be made 40 or less
1588277;1482418404;mircea_popescu;intuitively though i think blocks should be stored by height.
1588278;1482418486;mircea_popescu;(this scheme guarantees you have at most 9999 files + 99 directories in any directory, which should hold even on windows.)
1588279;1482418556;mircea_popescu;(while the store-by-hash txn scheme promises at most 256 directories OR 65536 files however in practice finding 65536 contiguous hash txn seems rather unlikely for a while yet)
1588280;1482418613;mircea_popescu;shinohai chick's from like 2009, what do you want. she gets 2 or 3 btc for teh dollar.
1588281;1482418663;mircea_popescu;no but srsly, people think this. as per http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/ ; the whole unwashed orc hordes of the third world actually believe there's something to usgistan.
1588282;1482420793;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588254 << can this be rewritten ? not that we're liable to have over 4bn txn at any point, but more of the principle of the thing "fuck you and your fucking magic numbers. if i run 64bit processors i'll run 64bit disks also motherfuckers!"
1588283;1482420793;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 07:32 jurov: also, there is limit of 2^32 inodes, even in 64-bit mode
1588284;1482420903;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588255 << eh, prepared queries next year. as it stands you can't even do a select properly.
1588285;1482420903;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 07:35 jurov: and to give my 2c also on sql, while it's possible to use some portable standardized ansi sql subset, essential stuff like prepared queries need a database driver
1588286;1482421067;mircea_popescu;(for the record, in practice the utility of prepared statements is often nil, and can be mostly captured through saying eg insert in x values y, values z rather than insert in x values y, insert in x values z. literally the whole benefit is that it compiles the part prior to values just once.
1588287;1482421118;mircea_popescu;whatever, i guess you also get some injection protection. hurr.
1588288;1482423301;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588254 << reiser doesn't use inodes, but iirc also limited to (2^32)-1 ~files~
1588289;1482423301;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 07:32 jurov: also, there is limit of 2^32 inodes, even in 64-bit mode
1588290;1482423321;asciilifeform;so it'd appear that there is no suitable fs in common use.
1588291;1482423569;trinque;the xfs limit is iirc defined as "how much disk space do you want to use for them"
1588292;1482423646;trinque;http://xfs.org/index.php/XFS_FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_inode64_mount_option_for.3F
1588293;1482423857;asciilifeform;afaik there is ~no~ fs that gives 'as many of ANYTHING as disk will hold'
1588294;1482423867;asciilifeform;fortranism reigns.
1588295;1482423940;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://archive.is/cLhiv << chinese gox
1588296;1482423948;trinque;that was not the claim at all; read the link
1588297;1482423950;mircea_popescu;trinque ah, you can recompile with flag and it makes them 64 ?
1588298;1482423967;trinque;mircea_popescu: looks like just a mount flag in fstab
1588299;1482423967;*;mircea_popescu reads
1588300;1482423973;*;shinohai has a Qntra on Chinese Gox when BingoBoingo awakens
1588301;1482423976;mircea_popescu;impressive. alrighty then
1588302;1482423983;trinque;definitely merits an experiment
1588303;1482423990;mircea_popescu;yes.
1588304;1482424037;asciilifeform;trinque: pretty interesting
1588305;1482424057;asciilifeform;i have some dark rumble in my gut associated with xfs, possibly from mid-2000s
1588306;1482424065;*;mircea_popescu is kinda rooting for ext2/3
1588307;1482424069;mircea_popescu;ext2/4*
1588308;1482424078;asciilifeform;iirc it was at one point considered catastrophically unusable unless you had a disk controller with battery
1588309;1482424103;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seems like you would need a nonstandard/modified-for-extra-bitness ext2/3
1588310;1482424113;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1588311;1482424118;asciilifeform;(at which point it may as well be a single-purpose 'bitcoinfs')
1588312;1482424137;mircea_popescu;hey, if xfs works all teh better.
1588313;1482424228;mircea_popescu;also the issue of performance discussed by dave chinner is worthy of consideration (in trinque 's link)
1588314;1482424234;asciilifeform;btw the blocks themselves really would like to live on own disk
1588315;1482424236;asciilifeform;1MB per
1588316;1482424237;asciilifeform;linearly.
1588317;1482424241;asciilifeform;no partition table or anything.
1588318;1482424246;mircea_popescu;myeah
1588319;1482424252;asciilifeform;then O(1) !!11
1588320;1482424260;mircea_popescu;yes but that's a later phase of this.
1588321;1482424266;asciilifeform;it's trivial to implement though.
1588322;1482424269;asciilifeform;unlike the db switch
1588323;1482424272;mircea_popescu;one thing at a time!
1588324;1482424323;trinque;asciilifeform: https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/35664-xfs-in-linux-3-10-to-put-on-extra-protection << it grew up a bit recently
1588325;1482424378;asciilifeform;neato
1588326;1482424455;mircea_popescu;anyway, yes, it'd seem iris fs took over the disks meanwhile, who knew.
1588327;1482424573;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: Emin is pushing SGX like solutions. Seems everyone is infected with security theatre these days.
1588328;1482424637;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: i have sincerely nfi what is emin or what is an sgx
1588329;1482424648;asciilifeform;do i even want to know
1588330;1482424656;thestringpuller;depends on how much dope you've smoked today
1588331;1482424664;asciilifeform;0
1588332;1482424672;mircea_popescu;no soldering yet ?
1588333;1482424675;thestringpuller;may cause stroke
1588334;1482424738;thestringpuller;http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/12/22/scaling-bitcoin-with-secure-hardware/
1588335;1482424748;asciilifeform;ah that
1588336;1482424749;asciilifeform;snoar.
1588337;1482424774;asciilifeform;'next, bestest ethertardium, now seeek000red with fritz chip'
1588338;1482424799;asciilifeform;iirc this is what they moved mike hearn to
1588339;1482424905;trinque;Teechan is similar in design to the Lightning Network, save for one crucial differentiating factor: it leverages trusted execution environments (TEEs), that is, secure hardware components found in recent commodity processors such as the latest batch of Intel CPUs with Software Guard Extensions (SGX). << why the fuck even bother talking about this
1588340;1482424939;thestringpuller;because whitewashing security is the only way to make people have trust these days?
1588341;1482424956;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: 'people'
1588342;1482425069;mircea_popescu;lol this is like cinderella on monkey island already ; they keep bringing her all sorts of offerings. "boogers ?" "how about some feces ?" "dried feces from yesterday ?" "how about this corn kernel" "ok how about dead molluscs"
1588343;1482426236;mircea_popescu;and in other argentine wtf, /me felt like putting some of the grandiose coffee available here to good use as coffee liqueur. sent girl to farmacy, where she bought 1 liter bottle of pure ethylic alcohol (98%). for like 6 bux. it's fabulous, tastes mildly of corn.
1588344;1482426690;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/D6w9h/?raw=true
1588345;1482426850;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5nHJ9/?raw=true
1588346;1482426897;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: worx
1588347;1482426910;asciilifeform;and no rush.
1588348;1482427061;asciilifeform;in other vintage lulz, https://tonyarcieri.com/volapuk-a-cautionary-tale-for-any-language-community << esperantists had their own python3, apparently.
1588349;1482427247;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform tbh, the reason a "constructed language" is readily forgotten is precisely the fact that it was constructed.
1588350;1482427257;mircea_popescu;it's not a ~real~ language, but a very pathetic ersatz.
1588351;1482427282;asciilifeform;idea was, iirc, to make more compact thing, without 'hair' and irregular cases etc
1588352;1482427300;mircea_popescu;this is a stupid idea, not unlike "to make more compact human, without apendix, tonsils etc"
1588353;1482427314;asciilifeform;or airplane without feathers
1588354;1482427318;asciilifeform;auto -- without hooves.
1588355;1482427324;mircea_popescu;the ignorance of random john smiths with "progressive" delusions of self importance is scarcely a basis for existence.
1588356;1482427345;asciilifeform;that there lived no one remotely qualified to touch the problem, does not make it a nonproblem
1588357;1482427349;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a language is not a car nor an aeroplane. also engineers are not nearly as important ; or powerful as they like to pretend.
1588358;1482427363;mircea_popescu;this can be trivially verified at any party of models/sluts where we invite a few engineers.
1588359;1482427365;asciilifeform;the limits of the power of engineer were being explored in those days.
1588360;1482427376;mircea_popescu;aha. and the results - informative.
1588361;1482427381;mircea_popescu;sutor ne ultra grease bucket.
1588362;1482427383;asciilifeform;(notice, few modern folx would presume to try.)
1588363;1482427447;asciilifeform;i still wonder about the supposed 4 mil or how many esperantists, who taught their children, etc. was it disinfo ? and if not, where did they go ?
1588364;1482427525;asciilifeform;i'll point out that there is also an 'if it prospers, none dare call it treason' effect going on. modern hebrew, for instance, is nearly as much a conlang as esperanto.
1588365;1482427553;asciilifeform;ditto what the ukrs speak on orc tv (~none of the public heads speak anything but ru at home)
1588366;1482427572;phf;газова горилка
1588367;1482427578;asciilifeform;lel aha
1588368;1482427597;mircea_popescu;anyway. an airplane is very strictly not a bird without feathers ; there's no relation to a bird whatsoever, an airplane is a sort of bus not a sort of bird.
1588369;1482427627;mircea_popescu;and engineered languages are exactly an island of dr moreau, a place that a) can't exist and b) whose only conceptual function is to show how fucking unbearably tedious old women are.
1588370;1482427657;asciilifeform;catholic latin was every bit the engineered.
1588371;1482427664;mircea_popescu;i have no fucking idea why the postmenopausal worldview is even tolerated by actual engineers ; if i thought myself one i'd actually spend half my time having people a la "we'll make a language" whipped at the public stake
1588372;1482427674;mircea_popescu;much like serious theologians in the 1000s did to idiot shamans.
1588373;1482427689;phf;asciilifeform: so was Sanskrit, but at that point the line of "engineered" becomes very blured
1588374;1482427725;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform re the "taught their children" : engineer-parents are no fucking better than engineers generally. and again the dr moreau reference rules supreme.
1588375;1482427769;mircea_popescu;bear in mind that at the height of jewish idiocy (well, 2nd height, after being stupid in the 30s) manifested as israel socialism, uppity bitches pretended to "teach" their daughters to be naked in public because "no shame" because hey, old woman engineer thinks herself powerful enough to repress the male gaze.
1588376;1482427786;mircea_popescu;the result was that 3rd generation girls reverted naturally to the coy behaviour, and the whole thing is today forgotten to the point you don't know about it
1588377;1482427809;asciilifeform;not forgotten, it is lulled at in every work re kibbutzim
1588378;1482427812;mircea_popescu;nor do the average old women who put forth their usual menopausal engineering pretense within my earshot and get treated to a large helping of stfu and make sandwiches.
1588379;1482427827;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ok so then if you know, what are you on aboot!
1588380;1482427871;asciilifeform;the kibbutz was a bonsaikitten and deservedly vanished. but their conlang! worked!111
1588381;1482427909;mircea_popescu;eh, hiding behind that to salvage your pretense to engineering power is exactly how and why engineer kids are always the ones who don't see any cunt at slut parties.
1588382;1482427937;mircea_popescu;some parts were conlang and some parts worked etc.
1588383;1482428136;asciilifeform;i hate to distract mircea_popescu from a good gloat re the impotence of engineer, but i'd like to see where he cuts the subj : viable conlang is impossible because no one remotely understands meat well enough? or, useless, even if it were made ? ... or both ?
1588384;1482428146;mircea_popescu;anyway ; language reform sometimes works - but this because it was a language, not because it was reform. similarily to how cutting fruit trees works, but this is because they are trees, not because of the cutting. if you cut a broom whatever way it's not gonna make plums.
1588385;1482428177;mircea_popescu;viable conlang is impossible for the reason woman-cut-from-marble is impossible : the substance uses lacks the capacity for the intended usage.
1588386;1482428192;mircea_popescu;the substance used*
1588387;1482428207;asciilifeform;meat vitalism?! what happened to the robocalypse?!
1588388;1482428221;mircea_popescu;language ~is a convention~, yes, but it is ~made from~ experience ; not consensus. people don't say "people" to denote people because ~they~ agreed to, but because people in the past ~have~.
1588389;1482428226;mircea_popescu;this history is irreplaceable.
1588390;1482428244;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform robots that speak natural languages ? where this, at mit ?
1588391;1482428270;asciilifeform;same place as 'play go' robot (btw afaik 0 pro games since sedol... as i predicted)
1588392;1482428288;mircea_popescu;yes, eventually, once v is so old to have been forgotten like the original calculations for the pyramids, robots will perhaps have enough linguistic history that you could pretend idiomatic-c is no less a language than latin.
1588393;1482428350;mircea_popescu;but the historical matrix of language (on which for instance myth is merely encoding artefact of lived experience) is the key ingredient to language - which is why romanian, a language spoken by a people for many years is much more powerful than enlgish, a language spoken by much more mongrels, but not so long really.
1588394;1482428395;mircea_popescu;and your objection to "ukrainian" which is a lulz much like the "croatian" for instance doesn't come and isn't informed nor supported by "the poor quality of conventions employed". it's its lack of history that marks it, correctly, as nonsense.
1588395;1482428419;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc most conlangists were not trying to beat french, romanian, russian, etc; but to beat commercial pidgins like english, which suffer from severely limited vocabulary and many nonsensical sharp edges
1588396;1482428472;mircea_popescu;yes, but they were idiots in another way : much like stalin's central planning committee (as implemented by the stuart court in london) can't beat the disorganised merchants of the low countries - just so five dorks with nary a clue can't compete with the combinatorial experimentation of the actual pigdin.
1588397;1482428473;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, urk 'ebonics' is perfectly speakable, just like the american variant, but (until recently) 0 written word.
1588398;1482428490;asciilifeform;then again finnish had ~0 written word until 19th c
1588399;1482428491;mircea_popescu;you will ~never provide a better solution to the waterflow via running equations than via running the fucking water.
1588400;1482428605;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/chinese-altcoin-exchange-btc38-serves-1-5-million-rmb-of-your-loss/ << Qntra - Chinese Altcoin Exchange BTC38 Serves 1.5 Million RMB Of Your Loss
1588401;1482428651;mircea_popescu;they're covering it too huh
1588402;1482428657;BingoBoingo;shinohai fxd
1588403;1482428678;phf;another take on this might be common lisp vs scheme. cl was standardized after the fact, existed and evolved on lisp machines. i'm looking at mit's cadr at the moment, and at a certain point you have maclisp, interlisp, zetalisp and "common lisp" all coexisting on the same machine, 10 years before the standard was written. scheme on the other hand was esparantoed for a purpose. the result is that as you move closer to speaking common
1588404;1482428678;phf;lisp natively, you find all these nooks and crannies in the language that facilitate. nothing like that exists in scheme
1588405;1482428690;shinohai;  ty BingoBoingo
1588406;1482428739;asciilifeform;phf: pray tell : what does having 'elt' AND 'nth' around, facilitate ?
1588407;1482428743;asciilifeform;other than bloat
1588408;1482428765;asciilifeform;plus, for that matter, 'aref'
1588409;1482428765;phf;asciilifeform: we had this thread, and i had an answer for you that you didn't like
1588410;1482428771;asciilifeform;link plox
1588411;1482428799;phf;i'm already spelunking logs for v history, to go on another trip at the moment :)
1588412;1482428828;asciilifeform;i can definitely see the pov of, e.g., lisp2ists
1588413;1482428858;asciilifeform;and there are entirely good 'scheme is skeletal to the point of complete unusability in factory state' arguments
1588414;1482428872;asciilifeform;but i have nfi why to get attached to dross and nonorthogonal crapolade.
1588415;1482428900;asciilifeform;outright, indefensible babelade like nth and elt.
1588416;1482428951;mircea_popescu;this otherwise defensible stand (at least in general) is why computer languages may never become more than shopping lists ; but then again fashion-behaviour (as seen in both languages and github/reddit) may have the last word.
1588417;1482429173;phf;asciilifeform: last time i said that cons structures and sequences solve two entirely unrelated problems. cons specifically is a fundamental memory management abstraction for a von neumann machine (it solves the insert problem), so has its own set of operations that can predictable performance and behavioral characteristic.
1588418;1482429194;phf;*that has
1588419;1482429217;asciilifeform;phf: that's defensible, but only defends aref
1588420;1482429230;mircea_popescu;one's enough.
1588421;1482429237;asciilifeform;now tell me why elt-AND-nth.
1588422;1482429247;asciilifeform;and if this were the only such example!
1588423;1482429251;asciilifeform;there are 100 others.
1588424;1482429262;*;mircea_popescu cheers on
1588425;1482429456;phf;asciilifeform: elt is a sequence operator, nth is a cons cell operator. cons/car/cdr/nth/list etc. you can express nth in terms of car/cdr. you can't express elt in terms of any of those
1588426;1482429495;phf;elt can potentially escape in the error clause to handle extensible sequences (and it does on SBCL)
1588427;1482429512;asciilifeform;common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
1588428;1482429554;phf;i'm not here to ~defend~ common lisp, i made an analogy that didn't stick
1588429;1482429567;mircea_popescu;i'm not terribly unhappy with the analogy.
1588430;1482429583;asciilifeform;phf: why not one op that dispatches, correctly ? is it as if the compiler ever did not know the actual operand's type ?
1588431;1482429586;mircea_popescu;it's just not clear if it has much substance on the jaguar's side. but clearly when ~you~ look into its eyes, ~you~ perceive a soul there.
1588432;1482429636;phf;well, asciilifeform's reaction to it is consistent to his perspective on conlangs, so i learned something
1588433;1482429649;asciilifeform;imho the jury is out on conlangs.
1588434;1482429760;mircea_popescu;here's a view that may help alf : natural language is the summarized http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581451 calculated over something like 10*5 * 10*7 * 50*24*365*50 ~played~ instances of prisoner's dilemma.
1588435;1482429760;a111;Logged on 2016-12-11 19:54 mircea_popescu: phf suppose you make an ai expert system to beat us at go. this gives you two practical options : either include 10gb worth of binary flags preset ; or else have us beat it at go for 10 centuries before it gets to where it plays like a freshly fucked 19yo.
1588436;1482429818;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta why i was specifically curious re what it was that the esperantist ~children~ spoke. the resultant creole, not the original 'megalomaniacal engineer' item.
1588437;1482429825;mircea_popescu;natural language dictionaries are usually in the 100k symbols range ; however natural languages altogether are very large graphs, and i'd venture in the yottabyte range.
1588438;1482429857;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem is that for most people, language is the only thought-amplifier they have. once you teach them a non-language they're very severely fucked.
1588439;1482429866;mircea_popescu;wolf children of india also spoke "conlang" by this measure.
1588440;1482429896;asciilifeform;which is why i'd like to see ~how~ they were fucked, there has to be some remaining crater to look at
1588441;1482429923;mircea_popescu;now this may well be a great use for one linguist-anthropologist's career. you wanna be it ?
1588442;1482429961;asciilifeform;'ten years in the lab can save you ten minutes in the library'
1588443;1482430004;mircea_popescu;you have a better shot at finding well written c-s implementation in the library.
1588444;1482430052;mircea_popescu;but w/e, maybe my very dim view of "scholarship" in the field is entirely unwarranted, i'm just a meadhater and library contains "a river of gold", to quote obama.
1588445;1482430062;asciilifeform;afaik esperantism was one of those crackpotteries utterly thermonuked by ww1, so i have nfi where one would even begin to look for remnants.
1588446;1482430084;phf;indian children still mostly speak conlang "by this measure". there's something like 15 ~official~ dialects, all of which have a significant post panini sanskrit incursion so that in say malayalam you have two different ~grammatical~ structures available to express the same thing, malay and sanskrit.
1588447;1482430125;*;mircea_popescu hasn't fucked that many indian womenz has not much clue as to their native barking system.
1588448;1482430135;*;asciilifeform worked in a lab with two dozen folx from india, no 2 spoke same language other than english
1588449;1482430155;mircea_popescu;heh
1588450;1482430181;asciilifeform;the most, afaik, egregious babel on planet3.
1588451;1482430198;mircea_popescu;well, india is a sort of china's africa. except the chinese were too lazy to properly fuck theirs.
1588452;1482430213;phf;i still remember how my hired driver crossed the state line and had to speak a very broken english with the locals to ask for directions
1588453;1482430345;mircea_popescu;but fwiw, serbian chick stands out in my mind, she was 19, her poor head had just come out of 12 years of which 6 were spent doing cyrilics and the other 6 doing ~BOTH~ latin and cyrillic and who genuinely thought that you know, this is BETTER EDUCATION!! because where other people got one, she got both!!1
1588454;1482430358;mircea_popescu;on the other hand i could readily notice the havoc this had wrought upon her poor brain.
1588455;1482430361;phf;asciilifeform: actually Esperanto was big in su. it was not an anathema to say that in the communist future the peoples of the word are going to speak not just Russian, but also some other, better, universal language. certainly interstellar trade would need something better. or when you talk to machines.
1588456;1482430377;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was how asciilifeform never learned to properly hand-write
1588457;1482430389;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yep, exactly in that vein.
1588458;1482430405;mircea_popescu;too slow a reader, etc.
1588459;1482430423;asciilifeform;now this i escaped.
1588460;1482430432;asciilifeform;no shortage of what to read.
1588461;1482430467;mircea_popescu;incidentally, speaking of misfortunate subhumans : anyone care to guess the most frequent answer my bot gets ? it's "most frequent" in the sense that the next-frequent is like 2 std deviations rarer. hint : it's a question.
1588462;1482430487;asciilifeform;bot?
1588463;1482430505;mircea_popescu;hahaha. this ~has not yet appeared~. no mention. 0. it simply does not occur.
1588464;1482430536;asciilifeform;i meant, which bot
1588465;1482430551;mircea_popescu;ah, the one mentioned in http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/
1588466;1482430556;asciilifeform;aah hm
1588467;1482430586;asciilifeform;no bot there?
1588468;1482430598;asciilifeform;maybe http://trilema.com/2016/how-the-other-half-lives-a-very-seriously-funny-article/ ?
1588469;1482430598;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1588470;1482430608;mircea_popescu;oh right right sorry my bad
1588471;1482430634;asciilifeform;ok i'ma guess 'a,s,l?' or similar
1588472;1482430638;mircea_popescu;nope.
1588473;1482430654;mircea_popescu;the boys are shockingly shy, it surprised me. 10 years ago used to be about 100x more virulent.
1588474;1482430674;asciilifeform;then i have monumentally nfi
1588475;1482430703;mircea_popescu;yeah. but it made me smile an ancient smile, because it is "who are you".
1588476;1482430724;mircea_popescu;the republic is undefeatable ; the empire is indefensible.
1588477;1482430747;phf;http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/business/us-blacklists-alibaba-taobao.html
1588478;1482430766;mircea_popescu;o.O
1588479;1482430882;mircea_popescu;ah whatevs. dude what a fucking tabloid this nytimes is. no, us didn't "blacklist" anything.
1588480;1482430890;phf;word on the street, that u.s. alibaba office is hiring like crazy, and that the salaries are so high, microsoft/amazon/apple no longer attempt to match compensation in the event of the poaching. so "blacklist"
1588481;1482430918;mircea_popescu;aha. the way this has to go.
1588482;1482430963;mircea_popescu;kinda brings to mind this lulzy discussion from 2013 : http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/#comment-93905 "dude, if inflation is this high, us gdp must be shrinking ?" "certainly is".
1588483;1482430992;BingoBoingo;OMG, at least half of all US small business now is private labeling shit from alibaba and reselling!
1588484;1482430999;mircea_popescu;aha.
1588485;1482431015;mircea_popescu;making us a sort of argentina with slightly better developed oil expoitation.
1588486;1482431571;asciilifeform;phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588411 << have some pointers, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-23#890120 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-03#1087259 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-05#1225073 (mega-thread) , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-05#1225194 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-05#1225522 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-05#1225571 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-05#1225624 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-08#1230216 (fir
1588487;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 17:46 phf: i'm already spelunking logs for v history, to go on another trip at the moment :)
1588488;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2014-10-23 04:41 asciilifeform: no hidden formats
1588489;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-04-03 21:41 asciilifeform: trinque: when you use a version control apparatus, it is very easy to produce patches that cannot be applied using your mind
1588490;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-05 03:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.
1588491;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-05 04:42 asciilifeform: also the continuity of identity. if, for example, my patches at some point go from tiny to elephantine, from single-purpose to 'omnibus', from deadly-simple to 'wtf is that' - folks are to presume that i have been finally killed and key is in hands of hitler. and should then rate accordingly.
1588492;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-05 13:38 mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".
1588493;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-05 14:00 mircea_popescu: there's no reason for this to take a week to do.
1588494;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-05 14:11 mircea_popescu: how would this b-a versioning system work ?
1588495;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-08 04:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in somewhat related nyooz, i've been experimenting with what for now i call 'v' - a very dumb 'versioner' that i've been writing, which eats solely 0) pgp keys 1) patches 2) signatures for same, many-to-many mapping of (2) to (1)
1588496;1482431571;asciilifeform;st mention of v specifically) http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-31#1257189
1588497;1482431571;a111;Logged on 2015-08-31 14:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-08-2015#1257082 << i loathe python per se. but the only realistic alternative was perl. (my original attempts at 'v' were in awk/sed, and did not work very well)
1588498;1482431583;asciilifeform;ok this was heavy but probably useful.
1588499;1482431583;mircea_popescu;da fuck
1588500;1482431591;phf;ahaha
1588501;1482431604;asciilifeform;stress test for a111!11111
1588502;1482431782;phf;actually the subject is an ongoing, year old conversation about about V as a way to represent knowledge starts with http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-12#1271598 and then gets revisited every couple of months
1588503;1482431782;a111;Logged on 2015-09-12 20:28 mircea_popescu: which... you know, i slept on this, and it occurs to me that ACTUAL MATHEMATICS might be the perfect thing to implement over V.
1588504;1482431852;mircea_popescu;phf ah, yes, but note that the item contemplated there is specifically not discussion ; but its results.
1588505;1482431910;mircea_popescu;but yah, seems v was born principally out of a discussion on august 5th
1588506;1482431999;asciilifeform;it was a fairly unambitious generalization from things we had already been doing by hand in trbdom
1588507;1482432015;mircea_popescu;aha
1588508;1482432021;asciilifeform;and also from a comment by mircea_popescu that went something like 'i must be able to put finger on a line of code and get names'
1588509;1482432025;phf;mircea_popescu: i misremembered, because later V in my mind merged with gossipd (http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-19#1376781)
1588510;1482432025;a111;Logged on 2016-01-19 14:46 mircea_popescu: you could technically run a chan off v.
1588511;1482432037;mircea_popescu;software design as god intended. FIRST you do by hand ; THEN you automate the parts worth automating.
1588512;1482432067;mircea_popescu;phf aha
1588513;1482432388;phf;but the reason i made those statements yesterday is because i think that like saying things in log is an opportunity to be corrected, so does posting a vpatch, it could be a learning experience. instead the mindset seems to be http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-20#1411214
1588514;1482432388;a111;Logged on 2016-02-20 22:45 phf: "i, ordained computron mircea lifeform, in the year of our republic 1932, having devoted three months to the verification of checksums, with my heart pure and my press clean, sit down to transcribe vee patch ascii_limits_hack, signed by the illustrious asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes and all saints."
1588515;1482432463;asciilifeform;phf: i stabbed at the problem of formalizing a way to specify what it is you actually commit to when signing a patch. it was the 'vectorized' thing, and everybody barfed.
1588516;1482432470;asciilifeform;so we're at the chalkboard still.
1588517;1482432472;mircea_popescu;phf you don't have to post a snippet of code as ~vpatch~. can just pastebin it also
1588518;1482432547;asciilifeform;phf: recently mircea_popescu suggested a cleaner scheme where everybody has multiple signing keys, and they rate one another, as if they were people. which is probably as mechanized as this will ever get.
1588519;1482432587;mircea_popescu;you ~can~ after all rebase a patch ; not just because of the patch, but also because of the sig.
1588520;1482432619;mircea_popescu;ie, item X enters life signed by "doubful matter key Z" and then a year later is signed by "ok this is it key Z" and makes it to the stable press
1588521;1482432635;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: signed-but-non-vtronic snippets are vulnerable to context misplacement.
1588522;1482432645;mircea_popescu;nono, vtronic.
1588523;1482432668;mircea_popescu;can release patch today under your text sig ; rebase it later with your main sig.
1588524;1482432741;phf;mircea_popescu: correction in this case can come in a form of another vpatch either by original author after the discussion or by anyone who wants to make annotations, etc. in which case the dialog becomes valuable on its own, because it preserves the differences that have didactic value
1588525;1482432750;mircea_popescu;you can literally come up with an idea for a thing while travelling ; go to internet cafe ; spin up gpg to make you a new key while you bash it down ; then sign the patch with that key which you don't even bother taking from there.
1588526;1482432757;mircea_popescu;if it's any good, you can always sign it later as phf.
1588527;1482432758;asciilifeform;important thing to remember, though, is that once you sign something, it ~exists~, and you cannot control it by selectively posting it to this-public-site but not that-public-site
1588528;1482432767;asciilifeform;a 'helpful' fella can simply repaste it.
1588529;1482432774;mircea_popescu;sure.
1588530;1482432816;mircea_popescu;phf yes, in principle. in practice i expect "centralizing" rebasing vpatches to happen all the time to prune trees of their noncontroversial joints.
1588531;1482432823;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what does the cafe key provide ?
1588532;1482432832;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform  a fixed form.
1588533;1482432834;asciilifeform;that a naked, barbaric pastebin would not
1588534;1482432866;mircea_popescu;i'm just saying - there's nothing lost here. can emulate naked pastebin in v style np.
1588535;1482432932;asciilifeform;there's no 'fixed form' from a key made on public comp tho
1588536;1482432956;asciilifeform;may as well sign with a phuctored key
1588537;1482432958;mircea_popescu;~same as of a pastebin
1588538;1482432963;asciilifeform;quite the same
1588539;1482432966;mircea_popescu;right.
1588540;1482433104;phf;i guess the multiple keys idea was already introduced in gossipd (in the original spec i suspect it was a solution to "no automatic RSA-ing" problem)
1588541;1482433111;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-28#1254193 << moar detail from 'history of v', for the record.
1588542;1482433111;a111;Logged on 2015-08-28 03:13 asciilifeform: thing does exactly three basic kinds of thing - verifies sigs; determines what subcoagulations of spittle in the spittoon are in fact in single strands; and permits operator to select individual strands, and cut'em (by whatever criteria, including signatories or combinations thereof)
1588543;1482433253;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's grandfather had a gigantic tray of rubber stamps, of what must have been a dozen different shapes, and when signing a document would first stamp it with the rubber that corresponded to the imperial role in which the signing was to take place. this was orc sop. and i suppose the concept is doomed to stick around.
1588544;1482433310;phf;asciilifeform: these are basically three different solutions to the same problem of "how to allow more than one kind of vpatch". yours is mechanical, mine is an attempt to expand the mythos and mp's is cutting the gordian knot
1588545;1482433355;asciilifeform;and there are bound to be mistakes, ranging from the harmless lul to the utter calamity, 'oops i used my 'royal alchemist' stamp instead of 'dildolathe operator by appointment to Her Majesty' stamp'
1588546;1482433357;asciilifeform;but such is life.
1588547;1482433456;asciilifeform;phf: mircea_popescu's method , to be used in the battlefield, still needs some means of tying the keys together formally -- and something that doesn't reduce to the horror of gpg's 'subkeys'
1588548;1482433471;mircea_popescu;should be entirely at operator's option.
1588549;1482433507;asciilifeform;naturally
1588550;1482433546;asciilifeform;but what is the best way to make permanent record that ' mircea_popescu's i-found-this-in-back-of-desk-drawer ' key is subservient strictly to ' mircea_popescu royal key ' ?
1588551;1482433632;mircea_popescu;why would such record be made ?
1588552;1482433649;asciilifeform;to not give the enemy a place to stick the knife.
1588553;1482433669;mircea_popescu;illustrate this
1588554;1482433738;asciilifeform;well iirc in mircea_popescu's original sketch, the sole linkage between mircea_popescu-royalkey and mircea_popescu-apocryphakey is a wot rating. and wot as we have it is an ephemeral thing, which relies on ability to interrogate living people, and not only living but near to the interlocutor in wot.
1588555;1482433757;asciilifeform;signatures, on the other hand, are not ephemeral but permanent.
1588556;1482433771;asciilifeform;so we have here a suit of armour where the leather straps rot, but the iron -- does not.
1588557;1482433774;mircea_popescu;and ?
1588558;1482433790;asciilifeform;and it is doomed to look quite different, with passage of time, than the maker intends.
1588559;1482433794;mircea_popescu;if patches are signed by dead people only, they don't belong in presses
1588560;1482433806;mircea_popescu;there;s no intention involved in or supported by vtronics
1588561;1482433837;asciilifeform;a rsa signature is a canned, if you will, piece of volition.
1588562;1482433845;asciilifeform;there is intent.
1588563;1482433849;mircea_popescu;i udn see it.
1588564;1482433871;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has a pretty good exposition of this, not long ago, in the 'opposed' thread
1588565;1482433885;mircea_popescu;how does that come to "intention" ?
1588566;1482433894;mircea_popescu;facts are opposable. intentions aren't a thing.
1588567;1482433927;asciilifeform;actually the relevant mircea_popescu article was another, where he had example of a man who is about to be hanged, but argues that the man who did the crime, is not the one who is bound and led to the gallows
1588568;1482433939;mircea_popescu;facts.
1588569;1482433988;asciilifeform;if you have 'soft' linkages between subservient keys, and no way to 'harden' them for the record, a slick operator could simply shed subpersonalities like snake skins, and there will be doubt in re the contiguity of identity, where there ought be no possibility of doubt.
1588570;1482434028;mircea_popescu;nobody forces you to even consider patches signed by people out of your wot.
1588571;1482434050;asciilifeform;nobody forces you to use comp either
1588572;1482434059;asciilifeform;or to drink salt water in the lifeboat.
1588573;1482434070;mircea_popescu;hey.
1588574;1482434112;asciilifeform;all of the extant vtrons, i will point out, run on linux, which is a monstrous horror of the deep that no one in my wot has signed, ditto python, perl, etc.
1588575;1482434123;mircea_popescu;i suspect we'll get to it.
1588576;1482434125;asciilifeform;we are far from the autarkik vplanet.
1588577;1482434162;mircea_popescu;anyway. i have a perfectly serviceable way to harden keys for the record. it's just not ~standardized~, and it's unclear it should be.
1588578;1482434187;asciilifeform;what'd it be, hypothetically ?
1588579;1482434203;mircea_popescu;well cuz i can say so. "key x is my key".
1588580;1482434211;asciilifeform;deedbot-of-humanreadable is not 'harden', it does not utterly thermonuke the possibility of ambiguity.
1588581;1482434226;mircea_popescu;your notion of harden is both illusory and useless.
1588582;1482434227;asciilifeform;'harden' means hardness on the level of rsa signature itself.
1588583;1482434240;mircea_popescu;rsa signature is not hard per your definition.
1588584;1482434253;asciilifeform;it is not infinitely hard, but is a standard, like diamond, for what is realistic hardness.
1588585;1482434264;mircea_popescu;and how is my declaration weaker ?
1588586;1482434320;asciilifeform;if it were not weaker, there would be no work for jurists, neh ?
1588587;1482434325;asciilifeform;comp could do their work.
1588588;1482434386;mircea_popescu;this doesn't follow.
1588589;1482434421;mircea_popescu;universality and hardness are orthogonal, how hard a diamond is as a standard of realistic hardness has entirely nothing to do with how many cunts wear one around their whatever appendage.
1588590;1482434699;asciilifeform;gedankenexperiment. say i have a billion signed texts, from all over the galaxy, and also a number of keys, can i mechanically query 'documents signed by all of mircea_popescu's known subserviant keys' ? is the notion that anyone trying to do this is by definition up to no good ?
1588591;1482434715;asciilifeform;because if so, making the declarations 'human text' is hardly an effective barrier
1588592;1482434743;mircea_popescu;yes, once you populate a db with the keyids of "known mp's subservient keys" you can
1588593;1482434806;mircea_popescu;and there's no "up to good" or "no good" directionality of intent involved here. he is up to nonsense, because meaning and universality are mutually exclusive.
1588594;1482434817;asciilifeform;yes but let's suppose that mircea_popescu mistyped, deliberately or otherwise, a character(s) in the string, and wrote 'kye x is ym key'
1588595;1482434827;asciilifeform;still 'counts' for the purpose of automated wotronics ?
1588596;1482434827;mircea_popescu;ok
1588597;1482434830;mod6;So I have made a couple small changes to my V99995, and have put together an output trace of what we were seeing with V99995 and what we now see with the changes made in a possible V99994 version.  Review of this would be nice to validate that the behavior is correct: http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt
1588598;1482434841;mircea_popescu;automated vtronics is like having cat "read" balzac for you.
1588599;1482434860;asciilifeform;a blind man may well have a machine with many fewer moving parts than cat, read his balzac.
1588600;1482434869;mircea_popescu;no i mean while you're not there.
1588601;1482434875;mircea_popescu;it just you know, reads it by itself.
1588602;1482434879;mircea_popescu;"for" you
1588603;1482435107;ben_vulpes;mod6: appears to address concerns
1588604;1482435110;mircea_popescu;if you have a collection of keys you're - for whatever reason, maybe they're all me, maybe they're my harem, maybe they're all the people from russia, whatever - interested in, yes you can build the set of all pathes they signed.
1588605;1482435137;mircea_popescu;but ~making that list~ is entirely unmachineable ; and me being very careful not to typo doesn't help
1588606;1482435143;ben_vulpes;can you cook a diff between v9..5 and v9..4 ?
1588607;1482435160;mod6;sure, but i'll remain unsigned until testing.
1588608;1482435163;mircea_popescu;(which is what all ~ALL~ standardization EVER does - makes it so you're really careful not to typo. it can't resolve problems of the other nature, just this.)
1588609;1482435165;mod6;*it'll
1588610;1482435168;ben_vulpes;sure
1588611;1482435299;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588519 << 'rebase' in my mind entails changing vpatch to have new hashes, or some other mutation. just transmitting a new sig does not change where a patch might lie in the tree.
1588612;1482435299;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 18:49 mircea_popescu: you ~can~ after all rebase a patch ; not just because of the patch, but also because of the sig.
1588613;1482435394;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes how would you call it ? reseal ?
1588614;1482435422;ben_vulpes;what's wrong with 'signing'?
1588615;1482435427;mod6;http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-test/v99994.vpatch
1588616;1482435435;mircea_popescu;i dunno, seems somewhat unclear to me.
1588617;1482435450;mircea_popescu;reseal = the act of signing a patch with your own key.
1588618;1482435475;mircea_popescu;sign = the act of signing anything.
1588619;1482435481;ben_vulpes;whence 're', though. that other key was 'derpderp ben_vulpes', not 'foundation chair ben_vulpes'
1588620;1482435512;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes which of the trb genesis seals are seal and which reseal ?
1588621;1482435525;ben_vulpes;all are seal imho
1588622;1482435532;mircea_popescu;alright.
1588623;1482435538;ben_vulpes;reseal, what is this. signed same matter again?
1588624;1482435540;mircea_popescu;so then rebase / seal.
1588625;1482435556;ben_vulpes;rebase/regrind to move the patch in the tree and seal to...seal.
1588626;1482435565;mircea_popescu;works.
1588627;1482436101;phf;i feel like there was a neat article about the history of seals somewhere inthe logs, but i can't find it
1588628;1482436170;mircea_popescu;hm.
1588629;1482436193;phf;i think it might've been by the same guy who did "history of timekeeping" or somesuch that was briefly trashed hmm
1588630;1482436205;mircea_popescu;naggum ?
1588631;1482436241;phf;no no different article
1588632;1482436262;*;mircea_popescu reads recipes for coffee liqueur on web. INSTANT COFFEE! they... USE WATER! holy shit...
1588633;1482436285;phf;it sort traced western history from the perspective of time measurement. "and then they had a city clock to synchronize everyone"
1588634;1482436320;mircea_popescu;phf oh sounds like szabo
1588635;1482436334;mircea_popescu;guy's very uneven, bright ideas + bad scholarship.
1588636;1482436384;phf;ah, right that's the guy
1588637;1482436391;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : if you google bitcoin authors you get : Andreas Antonopoulos, Gavin Andresen, Adam Back, Brian Behlendorf, Wences Casares, Hal Finney, Satoshi Nakamoto, Charlie Shrem.
1588638;1482436393;mircea_popescu;i kid you not.
1588639;1482436991;asciilifeform;phf: it was szabo.
1588640;1482437028;asciilifeform;and holyshit, is his site gone??
1588641;1482437043;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/Cjlr5 << it.
1588642;1482437061;mircea_popescu;it is ?
1588643;1482437071;asciilifeform;it dun load for me
1588644;1482437084;asciilifeform;( http://szabo.best.vwh.net/seals.html )
1588645;1482437122;asciilifeform;phf: on the other hand , 'long and painful history of time' ~was~ naggum
1588646;1482437194;phf;asciilifeform: yeah, seems down
1588647;1482437228;phf;it must've been down for a while, because wikipedia uses archive.is to link to his homepage
1588648;1482437251;asciilifeform;it was alive last we spoke of it here...
1588649;1482437298;phf;yeah, i remember mp scoffing at "a measure of sacrifice" few months ago
1588650;1482437438;mircea_popescu;pity we didn't have the bot archival thing earlier huh.
1588651;1482437522;phf;pitty we didn't have it from the beginning. all those beautiful tumblr pictures lost forever
1588652;1482439701;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1588653;1482439709;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 858.95, vol: 12335.15818543 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 843.9, vol: 8349.45358 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 859.65, vol: 17134.15426123 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 874.962365, vol: 5619669.47630000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 856.84, vol: 2768.47470403 | Volume-weighted last average: 874.826433963
1588654;1482440272;ben_vulpes;phf: and how!
1588655;1482440555;mircea_popescu;lol
1588656;1482440565;mircea_popescu;cunt is the one thing that's not running out.
1588657;1482441541;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: please to s/being/behind in pencil piece as per ben_vulpes' appreciated astutery.
1588658;1482441589;BingoBoingo;ty fxd
1588659;1482442018;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/mps-harem-level-black-russian/ << Trilema - MP's Harem Level Black Russian
1588660;1482442157;pete_dushenski;"Burning tree liters" << pun o typo ?
1588661;1482442325;mircea_popescu;lol!
1588662;1482442341;mircea_popescu;fixt
1588663;1482442352;pete_dushenski;:D
1588664;1482442484;pete_dushenski;i've heard of burning trees and i've heard of burning litres... but putting them together results in little more than a vw hippie wagon in my head.
1588665;1482444059;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/a-pox-upon-your-house << CH - A Pox Upon Your House!
1588666;1482444414;pete_dushenski;so ~that's~ where all my outsized vitriol went.
1588667;1482444462;mod6;ben_vulpes: haha
1588668;1482447300;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/us-leftists-begin-collecting-arms/ << Qntra - US Leftists Begin Collecting Arms
1588669;1482448140;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/vehlisp-genesisvpatch << CH - veh.lisp genesis.vpatch
1588670;1482448157;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: crazily enough, pingbacks work when issued from my own wp instance
1588671;1482448160;asciilifeform;^ this is seriously neato , ben_vulpes
1588672;1482448188;ben_vulpes;ty asciilifeform
1588673;1482448247;ben_vulpes;do let me know if you find anything odd about it
1588674;1482448329;*;asciilifeform downloaded it earlier today when ben_vulpes first posted, but not yet tested.
1588675;1482448391;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: that genesis is mildly diddled from the earlier paste
1588676;1482448408;ben_vulpes;and yes, thing has sharp edges, betrays exit codes for some unix processes
1588677;1482448419;ben_vulpes;very much a harem-v. but -- works for me.
1588678;1482448450;asciilifeform;possibly my point re 'harem v' was ambiguous. what i wanted to say was that ~every~ vtron has a harem end and a forum end
1588679;1482448456;asciilifeform;the forum end eats, shits vpatches
1588680;1482448473;asciilifeform;the harem end -- presses, and does miscellaneous housekeeping ops (e.g., 'origin')
1588681;1482448488;ben_vulpes;aaaah
1588682;1482448512;asciilifeform;a hypothetical vtron with a correct forum-end and a disastrously broken harem-end can only hose ~the owner~
1588683;1482448530;ben_vulpes;i did mistake that to mean "vs the public is pointed to as example vs. vs whose operations are private to the owner"
1588684;1482448548;asciilifeform;the only necessarily public part, i will point out, is the vpatches
1588685;1482448559;asciilifeform;hypothetically we could live exactly the same way with NO published vtrons at all!
1588686;1482448563;asciilifeform;and each man -- wrote his own.
1588687;1482448594;asciilifeform;(the seals and keys also must be public, naturally, but i am referring to the collective 'set' here)
1588688;1482448620;asciilifeform;that's what 'harem end' means -- that it literally does not matter how it works, except TO YOU
1588689;1482448641;asciilifeform;just as ben_vulpes has 0 particular reason to care how asciilifeform laid out his keyboard, or that it weighs 6kg
1588690;1482448665;asciilifeform;or how my display gamma is set.
1588691;1482448733;asciilifeform;on the other hand, if asciilifeform were to decide to speak ebcdic one day, we would have a problem talking.
1588692;1482449880;*;Framedragger thanks ben_vulpes for the CL implementation
1588693;1482449888;Framedragger;meanwhile, new talk from idlewords: http://idlewords.com/talks/superintelligence.htm
1588694;1482449911;asciilifeform;lel yudkoswkyism
1588695;1482450054;Framedragger;(note, slow start, spoiler: derision revealed after premises presented)
1588696;1482450217;asciilifeform;'AI risk is string theory for computer programmers. It's fun to think about, interesting, and completely inaccessible to experiment given our current technology. You can build crystal palaces of thought, working from first principles, then climb up inside them and pull the ladder up behind you.'
1588697;1482450218;asciilifeform;lulzy
1588698;1482450421;asciilifeform;aha it's the ceglowksi d00d!
1588699;1482450440;asciilifeform;the one with the pirate radio.
1588700;1482451013;Framedragger;yeah!
1588701;1482451015;Framedragger;(mp suggested to invite him over, and here i am childishly fearing that he'll hate this place, mp will decide that he's not mp-complete/ready, and that's gonna be that. i know, sad.)
1588702;1482451067;ben_vulpes;what'd the repulic accrete this year, 2 new faces?
1588703;1482451068;asciilifeform;we had this with at least 1 d00d who i respected (spandrel/'bloody shovel')
1588704;1482451071;ben_vulpes;shinohai and Framedragger ?
1588705;1482451074;ben_vulpes;o also vc
1588706;1482451104;asciilifeform;!~seen vc
1588707;1482451104;jhvh1;asciilifeform: I have not seen vc.
1588708;1482451121;phf;!#seen vc
1588709;1482451121;a111;2016-06-12 <vc> Framedragger: I'm cool with port scans, neither me nor my parent host cares
1588710;1482451127;asciilifeform;hm
1588711;1482451132;asciilifeform;the other bot -- broken, or wat.
1588712;1482451169;phf;other bot only recalls anyone it saw since it started running, where's a111 is looking at logs
1588713;1482451229;asciilifeform;aah
1588714;1482451238;asciilifeform;'since it started running' sounds 100% useless
1588715;1482451244;asciilifeform;who the hell knows when it started running.
1588716;1482451248;asciilifeform;for all i know - five seconds ago.
1588717;1482451254;asciilifeform;and will reboot again in another 5.
1588718;1482451262;ben_vulpes;better to not offer that feature if that's how it works today, shinohai
1588719;1482451289;phf;well, it probably keeps a state somewhere, but i mean since it got deployed, which was probably around the ba->tmsr
1588720;1482451340;phf;fwiw if shinohai can give me a state format, i could trivially produce a seen table for anyone pre split
1588721;1482452221;shinohai;ben_vulpes: I came in 2015
1588722;1482452368;ben_vulpes;aok, so 1 then?
1588723;1482454870;ben_vulpes;haw haw haw btc market cap > twitter market cap
1588724;1482454882;ben_vulpes;in "comparing made up numbers" news
1588725;1482456137;asciilifeform;in other non-news, https://mjos.fi << possibly interesting d00d of the dan bernstein type
1588726;1482457592;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/294C0DC51A456CD1069D56E7B298CC2FDA9D8CF641980590454BE9B6C7F8051C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1618...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '203.194.131.231 (ssh-rsa key from 203.194.131.231 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
1588727;1482458127;mircea_popescu;it's pretty much been 100% ssh huh
1588728;1482458203;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: randos throw in pgp keys still, half dozen or so in a month typically
1588729;1482458221;asciilifeform;the most recent one of these to pop was the german thing
1588730;1482458247;mircea_popescu;yea
1588731;1482458472;mod6;"Real name: mod6" "Name must be at least 5 characters long"
1588732;1482458481;mod6;foiled
1588733;1482458564;mircea_popescu;lol!
1588734;1482458776;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588544 << can you explain this mythos expand thing again ?
1588735;1482458776;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 19:01 phf: asciilifeform: these are basically three different solutions to the same problem of "how to allow more than one kind of vpatch". yours is mechanical, mine is an attempt to expand the mythos and mp's is cutting the gordian knot
1588736;1482458837;mod6;oh, fwiw, --gen-key --allow-freeform-uid
1588737;1482459095;mircea_popescu;iirc it also had --expert or such
1588738;1482459576;mircea_popescu;mod6 i read through http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt and indeed it seems right and proper vtronics. one q though : was there any patch not signed by asciilifeform interspersed in the flow ? because that's the only not tested case i think, if you have say a->b->c->d where a, c and d are signed by x. does it stop at a ?
1588739;1482459690;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: can easily simulate this by deleting a seal
1588740;1482459711;mircea_popescu;yes.
1588741;1482459814;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes this incidentally is a very cogent point you bring, "Multiple implementations of an ambiguous specification provide far more value than the "many eyes" mantra of open source advocates. An implementation in Python might burn the eyes of a Perl hacker, and the Perl be entirely inscrutable to a man who's never touched it before, and even were such a man to sit down and learn Python for the purpose of auditing another'
1588742;1482459814;mircea_popescu;s V implementation, it is in no way obvious that the time cost of his learning the language combined with the risk that he misses details in the audit is a better resource expenditure than simply implementing the tool again in his language of choice."
1588743;1482459985;mod6;mircea_popescu: this is a solid point for testing, let me give this a test and see how it goes. will report.
1588744;1482460000;mircea_popescu;as alf points out not hard, just nuke one seal
1588745;1482460004;mircea_popescu;well, rename the file lol
1588746;1482460145;phf;i'm about to upgrade btcbase, which in this case is an invasive procedure so bot's going to be down for a bit (15 minutes or so if everything goes well), after that there might be some bugs so feel free to yell at me
1588747;1482460179;mircea_popescu;finally moving it to .net ?
1588748;1482460206;*;shinohai throws moldy cabbage at phf
1588749;1482460224;phf;things have been too stable, so i'm moving it literate pascal
1588750;1482460224;mircea_popescu;but whai
1588751;1482460234;mircea_popescu;i hear literate pascal is good.\
1588752;1482460242;phf;not in my hands
1588753;1482460415;mircea_popescu;now we know what it means when phf tells a girl he'll be 10-15 minutes.
1588754;1482460695;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes do you mean you iterate through all the seals ? :D
1588755;1482460993;phf;jinxed :p
1588756;1482461009;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588683 << actually that's a perfectly fine meaning whatever he meant.
1588757;1482461022;*;mircea_popescu subscribes to the harem- usage explained in ch.
1588758;1482461116;asciilifeform;hm for some reason i thought we had autofallover on scriba
1588759;1482461133;asciilifeform;(if a111 doesn't answer in $time)
1588760;1482461190;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588693 << is this you ?
1588761;1482461198;mircea_popescu;and wtf "today we are building machine intelligence" idiocy is this.
1588762;1482461253;asciilifeform;it's the pl d00d, with the pirate tv station in the solidarity years, the antarctic expedition, etc
1588763;1482461413;mircea_popescu;ah. ok. anyway, it's funny, because compare this part : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588385 meets this part : "At this point, the robot is getting smarter as well, and participates in its own redesign."
1588764;1482461428;mircea_popescu;see, the man looked in the jaguar's eyes, and SAW a soul there. little bit of circularity.
1588765;1482461453;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the thing is a flame, and it was not obvious to me either on 1st pass.
1588766;1482461460;mircea_popescu;"it has good instincts as to what's funny and what's not". really ?
1588767;1482461487;mircea_popescu;yes, when i teach a 15 yo to fuck, she ~has good instincts~ about what's slutty and what's not ; and works to clear the shit her mother shat on her so the slut within can shine
1588768;1482461503;mircea_popescu;but the machine has no mother to shit on it ; AND NO GOOD INSTINCTS. or any instincts at all.
1588769;1482461595;mircea_popescu;i take it she came this time ?
1588770;1482461718;phf;ok, so we have a new beginning of log, which is http://btcbase.org/log/2012-04-13#-325969
1588771;1482461718;a111;Logged on 2012-04-13 11:00 `MBot: [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ TYGRR-BOT ] [ 2 x 0.99999 = 1.999980 BTC ]
1588772;1482461729;mircea_popescu;o.O
1588773;1482461740;asciilifeform;ooh
1588774;1482461745;mircea_popescu;dude sweet.
1588775;1482461801;mircea_popescu;what was the stats link ?
1588776;1482461802;asciilifeform;this was... #otc ..?
1588777;1482461846;mircea_popescu;phf any idea why ← 2012-04-15 ⏐ 2012-08-10 → ?
1588778;1482461869;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no 2012 is very early ba
1588779;1482461893;mircea_popescu;i have jun 2011 - apr 2012 otc logs also, but by now really scraping the bottom.
1588780;1482461902;phf;asciilifeform: i'm not sure, but the ancient log connects cleanly into where kako starts
1588781;1482461952;phf;it was mostly an opportunity to cleanup very messy internal log keeping that involved multiple sliced in memory arrays..
1588782;1482461964;mircea_popescu;phf but why the gap ?
1588783;1482461980;phf;looking into it
1588784;1482461982;asciilifeform;phf: is there an automagical way to query when $nick first appeared ?
1588785;1482462008;phf;http://btcbase.org/log-first-post?nick=mircea_popescu (that feature was requested by trinque)
1588786;1482462021;asciilifeform;neato
1588787;1482462043;phf;it's a redirector so not very convenient
1588788;1482462060;mircea_popescu;pretty cool.
1588789;1482462100;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-20#570859 << in which we find phf has been around for years.\
1588790;1482462100;a111;Logged on 2014-03-20 22:39 phf: not quite
1588791;1482462104;mod6;ok, so some results to the above: http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace2.txt
1588792;1482462131;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142550 , http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142536 << lel, there must be a missing piece, did i really appear in the log before saying anything
1588793;1482462131;a111;Logged on 2013-02-02 19:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009 re-doing that would be a worthy exercise
1588794;1482462131;a111;Logged on 2013-02-02 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: working on it
1588795;1482462179;*;asciilifeform goes to pull own log out of dusty pit
1588796;1482462240;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> i have jun 2011 - apr 2012 otc logs also, but by now really scraping the bottom. << these would be cool tho
1588797;1482462256;mod6;high-drama in those days.
1588798;1482462269;asciilifeform;hm.. looks like i was in #b-a on oct. 6, 2012, and after, but apparently never spoke....
1588799;1482462327;asciilifeform;which is itching in my head, because i have nfi how i could have ~found~ it prior to the letter from hanbot
1588800;1482462354;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the dates seem off or something's amiss. i see you feb 3rd 2013
1588801;1482462358;mircea_popescu;which is correcxt.
1588802;1482462380;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142536 << here
1588803;1482462380;a111;Logged on 2013-02-02 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: working on it
1588804;1482462394;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: feb.2 of 2013 was when asciilifeform first ~spoke~ there
1588805;1482462417;mircea_popescu;aha...
1588806;1482462428;mircea_popescu;what did you mean, "were there" ?
1588807;1482462428;asciilifeform;i dug on my disk just now to try and recall when i ~tuned in~ and apparently it was much earlier, and i can't even recall why.
1588808;1482462440;mircea_popescu;that's odd.
1588809;1482462443;asciilifeform;'there' in the sense of reading.
1588810;1482462451;mircea_popescu;maybe you imported someone's log at some point ?
1588811;1482462467;asciilifeform;nah it wouldn't be in that particular pile.
1588812;1482462468;mircea_popescu;avid reader that you are
1588813;1482462484;asciilifeform;this pile consists only of what came out of the hose.
1588814;1482462494;mircea_popescu;yeah but you would have shown in chanlists which you do not.
1588815;1482462506;asciilifeform;possibly tuned in and then immediately out.
1588816;1482462524;mircea_popescu;as what, like a diff nick ?
1588817;1482462528;asciilifeform;nope
1588818;1482462540;mircea_popescu;then no, cuz you see, parts/joins are recorded.
1588819;1482462560;asciilifeform;**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct  6 11:29:23 2012
1588820;1482462560;asciilifeform;Oct 06 11:29:23 *       Now talking on #bitcoin-assets
1588821;1482462561;asciilifeform;...
1588822;1482462563;phf;mircea_popescu: log that you gave me, goes apr 15, may 22, aug 10th
1588823;1482462572;mircea_popescu;da fuck.
1588824;1482462577;*;mircea_popescu goes to inspect.
1588825;1482462609;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-02#1444829
1588826;1482462609;a111;Logged on 2016-04-02 19:14 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt.tar.gz
1588827;1482462621;mod6;POP QUIZ: How much was the first MPEx fee after the beta period?
1588828;1482462628;mircea_popescu;20 iirc
1588829;1482462662;mod6;haha, i think it was ya.
1588830;1482462678;asciilifeform;oh hah turns out that i was wrong about when first spoke, also
1588831;1482462692;asciilifeform;Oct 11 22:25:56 <asciilifeform> Please comment: "Shitcoin: a Modest Proposal." (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988)
1588832;1482462726;mircea_popescu;phf omfg you'\re right, i just made contact at first ; only started using it from august.
1588833;1482462850;phf;asciilifeform: oddly enough that's not in the log. perhaps if you upload your logs i can slice them in..
1588834;1482462852;mircea_popescu;yup. tis what it is.
1588835;1482462868;mod6;wow, the fortunes won, and lost (looking at this old stuff...)
1588836;1482462871;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what chan was this in ?
1588837;1482462876;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: #b-a
1588838;1482462885;phf;hmm
1588839;1482462888;mircea_popescu;uh.
1588840;1482462930;phf;asciilifeform: were you on bouncer from the beginning?
1588841;1482462949;asciilifeform;nope
1588842;1482462978;mircea_popescu;Oct 17 22:08:30 <asciilifeform>	nubbins`: shitcoin was a crackpot proposal of mine (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988). << this is 2013.
1588843;1482463046;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in what year was 'Oct 06 11:33:00 <PeterLambert>  I guess there is no need for glbse trading funds without a glbse' on your machine ?
1588844;1482463098;phf;asciilifeform: what's your timestamp for "There's no drama like Bitcoin drama." ?
1588845;1482463122;asciilifeform;Oct 11 15:48:50 <mircea_popescu>        There's no drama like Bitcoin drama.  The "will pirate make contact" storyline returns tomorrow and the new season of "will BFL deliver" starts in a couple of weeks.  It's like reality TV without the ads.  Which well-known Bitcoin business will suddenly fail next?  Who should be voted off the libertarian island?
1588846;1482463131;asciilifeform;(2012)
1588847;1482463135;mircea_popescu;right.
1588848;1482463142;asciilifeform;so apparently there i was
1588849;1482463146;mircea_popescu;48:51 here.
1588850;1482463200;mircea_popescu;but i have no record of said modest proposal.
1588851;1482463216;phf;ah so there's a break on oct 12 from 04:56 to 15:08 which falls under
1588852;1482463236;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2012-08-11#-325354
1588853;1482463236;a111;Logged on 2012-08-11 03:55 BTC-Mining: I lost 40 BTC due to a typo
1588854;1482463238;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i wrote the article on oct 11 2012. so this makes sense
1588855;1482463246;mod6;oh man, this stuff is gold
1588856;1482463256;asciilifeform;but how the hell did i wander into #b-a, i still cannot remember.
1588857;1482463261;mircea_popescu;mod6 remember that time someone put a mega sdice order in and flooded the book ?
1588858;1482463287;mircea_popescu;confirmed, there's a hole in my log for the 12th. asciilifeform apparently you didn't merely meander in, but managed to do it when i was off.
1588859;1482463323;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> mod6 remember that time someone put a mega sdice order in and flooded the book ? << Oh yeah, Sir.  I'm still doing a O_O from that.
1588860;1482463338;mircea_popescu;was like 10k btc worth or some similar insanity.
1588861;1482463369;mod6;for sure. it was unreal. i did like a quadruple take.
1588862;1482463400;mod6;<+asciilifeform> but how the hell did i wander into #b-a, i still cannot remember. << you were invited to checkout MPEx right?
1588863;1482463406;asciilifeform;fwiw i definitely wasn't fully 'tuned in' until after the mpex review thing
1588864;1482463457;asciilifeform;at the time i was doing a great deal of passive lurking, trying to draw a picture that might lead to the shangri-la where the smart folx live
1588865;1482463458;mod6;yeah, i feel like you came in, talked for a few weeks, checked it out... then vanished again for a while.  then you were here.
1588866;1482463470;mircea_popescu;there's an easy mistake to make here where we look at the past and presume it's the present. gotta recall at the time most people (myself included) did not even regard the matter as serious enough to warrant permalogging.
1588867;1482463486;mircea_popescu;so it's entirely possible you were curious about bitcoin, wandered in some chan or another, never thought more of it.
1588868;1482463491;mod6;yeah, im an idiot for not logging everything.
1588869;1482463500;mod6;i totally didn't log anything.
1588870;1482463512;mircea_popescu;mod6 force is to be deployed as it becomes evident it's useful to deploy it, not randomly everywhere.
1588871;1482463526;mod6;ya
1588872;1482463555;mircea_popescu;anyway ; i dunno that it makes any sense to push this further ; otc logs, what else, we're going to do cypherpunk bbses too ?
1588873;1482463555;mod6;some of that OTC stuff was totally insaneo.  i remember this one particular day with pirate...
1588874;1482463576;mod6;wild times
1588875;1482463577;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'curious re bitcoin' since shortly before 2010, but no good notes; but for some reason did not occur to me to visit irc folx until 2012
1588876;1482463578;phf;our logs must go all the way back to Aristotle
1588877;1482463843;asciilifeform;ftr i found bitcoin to be a very interesting thing (after, like many other people, very narrowly failing to come up with it) but couldn't stand ~bitcoin enthusiasts~ at all, barfed immediately when saw tardstalk, and #bitcoin, and will also admit, early #b-a
1588878;1482463924;mod6;yeah tardstalk was awful. the only redeeming quality there was MPOE-PR.
1588879;1482463933;mod6;i still have scammer ptsd
1588880;1482464040;mircea_popescu;ahahaha ok this is great. "since hyperintelligence is a real threat any entity which develops hyperintelligence would be so taken with this threat that it would be forced to spend all its time filling obscure wikis with bad fanfic to prepare the other intelligences to deal with the singularity. you know, much like that bizarre faggot."
1588881;1482465048;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1588791 << in case this got lost in the shuffle above.
1588882;1482465048;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 03:01 mod6: ok, so some results to the above: http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace2.txt
1588883;1482465162;mircea_popescu;mod6 why's the hash mismatching ?
1588884;1482465218;BingoBoingo;Oh my http://qntra.net/2016/12/us-leftists-begin-collecting-arms/#comment-82137
1588885;1482465239;mircea_popescu;Joi Ito, who runs the MIT Media Lab, said a wonderful thing in a recent conversation with President Obama: "This may upset some of my students at MIT, but one of my concerns is that it's been a predominantly male gang of kids, mostly white, who are building the core computer science around AI, and they're more comfortable talking to computers than to human beings. A lot of them feel that if they could just make that science-f
1588886;1482465239;mircea_popescu;iction, generalized AI, we wouldn't have to worry about all the messy stuff like politics and society. They think machines will just figure it all out for us."
1588887;1482465325;mircea_popescu;now then, leaving aside the offensive inferiority complex women/nonwhites have towards white males : the guy has a point (mit media lab, which apparently got new leadership, a little smarter - and a little less female - being where ethereum retardation is hatched). the jwz is by now radioactive, a bunch of kids who can't subdue a girl their age, let alone a herd of adult women, want things to be about how it's ok to go around
1588888;1482465326;mircea_popescu; in flipflops.
1588889;1482465359;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> mod6 why's the hash mismatching ? << upon checking the output hash from the pressing of asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch, it failed.  because this patch depends on asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch which was not in the flow, because it was renamed 'duck-fuck-soup.vpatch'.
1588890;1482465391;mircea_popescu;mod6 oh i thought it failed before.
1588891;1482465396;*;mircea_popescu rereads
1588892;1482465433;mircea_popescu;oh oh you moved the file rather than the seal. i see
1588893;1482465491;mod6;yah, so, in this: a->b->c->d  ; I basically just got rid of 'c', and then tried to press a->b->d (all signed by x) and it does fail.  was this what we were trying to achieve? If not, i'll do another test np.
1588894;1482465511;mircea_popescu;yeah, try again i say, but leave the vpatch rename the seal just.
1588895;1482465548;mod6;aha, ok. will do. if i'd venture a guess, we'll see the exact same result.
1588896;1482465555;mod6;let's see :]
1588897;1482465555;mircea_popescu;then that'd be it.
1588898;1482465906;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AE6059BDD7FE61498088A210017B6C8C64175A61EA7E69D7B6EC99B5E54F9603 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1484...6717 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.136.214.9 (ssh-rsa key from 83.136.214.9 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (secure4.edt02.net. FR)
1588899;1482466319;mircea_popescu;anyway, idlewords guy is pretty much spot on as to how exactly silicon valley / "vc" etc world goes away. "Ray Kurzweil, who believes he will never die, has been a Google employee for several years now and is presumably working on that problem. There are a lot of people in Silicon Valley working on truly crazy projects under the cover of money." this is pretty much it, the byzantines found their way towards byzantinism, will
1588900;1482466319;mircea_popescu;"intellectual property" all the way to the bottom.
1588901;1482466372;mircea_popescu;(failure in resource allocation went from simple "tin women" to - google, or for that matter mit, can't figure out who to hire anymore.)
1588902;1482466445;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/294C0DC51A456CD1069D56E7B298CC2FDA9D8CF641980590454BE9B6C7F8051C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1397...8359 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '203.194.131.231 (ssh-rsa key from 203.194.131.231 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
1588903;1482466640;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is quite like saying catholic church has nfi who to hire.
1588904;1482466651;mircea_popescu;it's how it failed.
1588905;1482466668;mod6;mircea_popescu & asciilifeform : http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace3.txt
1588906;1482466672;mod6;same outcome.
1588907;1482466673;asciilifeform;google et al are not commercial orgs in the usual sense, and haven't been for years, they are religious institutions
1588908;1482466681;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform economy is not optional.
1588909;1482466724;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: priests can stay fat for so long as there is fat to harvest. for so long as ~other~ people economize.
1588910;1482466749;mircea_popescu;getting "other people" to work for you is the exact above problem.
1588911;1482466762;mircea_popescu;you have this much sticky and have to pick who "other people" to stick.
1588912;1482466773;asciilifeform;mod6: problem
1588913;1482466784;asciilifeform;mod6: grep for 'fuzz'
1588914;1482466794;asciilifeform;that should NOT be there
1588915;1482466797;asciilifeform;ever.
1588916;1482466798;mircea_popescu;^
1588917;1482466846;mod6;hmm.
1588918;1482466880;asciilifeform;look at how my vtron invoked 'patch'
1588919;1482466883;mod6;well, i suspect that this is a different problem really.
1588920;1482466898;mod6;and yours doesn't check the output hash.
1588921;1482466917;asciilifeform;correct, it did not, it instead invoked patch with zero fuzz
1588922;1482466964;asciilifeform;(in case it isn't obvious, this was dangerous, and i did warn folks)
1588923;1482467020;asciilifeform;mod6: and yes, your hash checker apparently broke, if the fuzz thing was able to come into play
1588924;1482467065;asciilifeform;(presumably you omitted disabling fuzz because you had, in theory, the hash antecedent check. but why not 'belt and suspenders')
1588925;1482467094;mod6;disable fuzz via patch flag?
1588926;1482467099;phf;-F 0
1588927;1482467101;asciilifeform;aha
1588928;1482467105;mod6;anyway, ok ok ok.
1588929;1482467119;mod6;no worries, fixing this requires some other changes. will go back to drawing board.
1588930;1482467138;asciilifeform;fuzz is this horror where gnu patch tries to hammer square stick into round hole by default
1588931;1482467217;asciilifeform;because, somewhere, monkeys are more concerned with 'appeared to work' than with 'correct output', or so author imagined
1588932;1482467248;asciilifeform;i am still waiting for something like a logical argument for why patch fuzz existed.
1588933;1482467249;mod6;so you think that if i just use '-F 0' then this problem is hypothetically resolved?
1588934;1482467267;asciilifeform;mod6: it will at least die correctly
1588935;1482467308;mod6;because, mind you, it is ~still~ trying to press asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch, and whatever it shits out from this, if it does not match the expected output hash, will then die yes.
1588936;1482467314;asciilifeform;(we already learned that your antecedent checker failed, but now gotta find out why)
1588937;1482467326;mod6;we did?!
1588938;1482467330;asciilifeform;aha
1588939;1482467343;asciilifeform;or patch would not have tried to fuzz at all
1588940;1482467357;asciilifeform;and the output would have been the expected one
1588941;1482467370;mod6;im confused
1588942;1482467404;asciilifeform;see where it goes with -F 0
1588943;1482467406;mod6;i dunno, lemme try putting in the anti-fuzz thing
1588944;1482467407;mod6;ok
1588945;1482467641;asciilifeform;mod6: look here: asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch should have been orphaned in your flow
1588946;1482467669;asciilifeform;when you zapped the sig for asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch
1588947;1482467711;asciilifeform;consult phf's displayer , http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable
1588948;1482467712;mod6;http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace4.txt
1588949;1482467778;asciilifeform;the flow is wrong
1588950;1482467800;asciilifeform;though mod6 probably knew this already.
1588951;1482467842;mod6;yes, flow is wrong because 'asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch' is missing.
1588952;1482467854;asciilifeform;you gotta recurse
1588953;1482467872;asciilifeform;patch for whom antecedent does not exist, gets ignored
1588954;1482467876;asciilifeform;ad infinitum
1588955;1482467956;mod6;this graph is incorrect http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable
1588956;1482467974;asciilifeform;hm?
1588957;1482468007;mod6;http://dpaste.com/0EW5AV7.txt
1588958;1482468058;mod6;mine has another arrow going to dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing
1588959;1482468067;mod6;http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html
1588960;1482468112;phf;there's no "correct" with v graphs, and every two months or so i spent some time meditating on what a v graph even is
1588961;1482468153;asciilifeform;waiwat
1588962;1482468157;asciilifeform;of course there is
1588963;1482468193;asciilifeform;somebody has buggy vtron.
1588964;1482468205;asciilifeform;is the only way the graphs can differ.
1588965;1482468222;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mod6: look here: asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch should have been orphaned in your flow << i think it actually is, quite: when I have the sig for dnsseed moved to duck-fuck-soup, and i check the ante and desc for zap_hardcoded:http://dpaste.com/2QCN3Y4.txt
1588966;1482468243;mod6;which says to me, that it was orphand off from dnsseed
1588967;1482468299;asciilifeform;mod6: think for a minute: an orhpaned patch has no descendants.
1588968;1482468308;asciilifeform;must have none. it dies.
1588969;1482468323;asciilifeform;recursively
1588970;1482468384;mod6;that's the same as saying : mod6@gentoo ~/sandbox-v $ ./v.pl a asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch
1588971;1482468395;mod6;that guy has been orphand, he has no parent.
1588972;1482468396;asciilifeform;a vtron that displays descendants for a patch that has an antecedent hash that corresponds to no patch, or does the same for any of its apparent children, is incorrect
1588973;1482468415;asciilifeform;if he is orphaned, his children also gotta die
1588974;1482468440;mod6;anyway, i think my graph is correct.
1588975;1482468458;mod6;phf's might correct, but his doesn't show all of the edges that mine does.
1588976;1482468514;asciilifeform;this is not possible by definition, either it displays that exist, all of them, and is correct, or not all, then not.
1588977;1482468521;mod6;asciilifeform: im having a hard time following you.  let's try to keep this to something i can grok.
1588978;1482468547;asciilifeform;aite. how do i help mod6
1588979;1482468573;mod6;are you saying, in my flow, in these traces, when i remove a middle vpatch or sig, that it shouldn't show anything in the flow after the breakage even if there are vpatches with valid sigs that correspond to wot entities present?
1588980;1482468575;phf;asciilifeform: i don't really have mental capacity for this conversation right now, but mod6's graph is most likely correct, because all it does is links vpatches to vpatches by their shared hashes
1588981;1482468607;asciilifeform;phf: yours did something else?
1588982;1482468627;mod6;or to go back to mr. p.'s example: a->b->c->d all signed by x, if i remove 'c', then the flow should read: a->b
1588983;1482468627;asciilifeform;mod6: you got it
1588984;1482468656;asciilifeform;mod6: if flow breaks, everything that hung below the breaking point, falls down
1588985;1482468660;mod6;but this is where it gets hairy.
1588986;1482468719;mod6;if we look at my graph, that really wouldn't be true.
1588987;1482468728;asciilifeform;it is less hairy if you use my algo, where every single patch, when deciding if it gets into the flow, has to trace descent to a genesis, unbrokenly
1588988;1482468743;asciilifeform;if it can't-- zap.
1588989;1482468751;mod6;if it were correct, in my mind, i suppose, the flow would be dropping zap_hardcoded_seeds and zap_showmyip_crud.
1588990;1482468763;mod6;because there are other routes everywhere else that can follow.
1588991;1482468777;mod6;but those would be the only two that should drop.
1588992;1482468783;mod6;not ~everything~ else.
1588993;1482468797;phf;asciilifeform: mine removes some of the links where dependency is already demonstrated by other means. if you have a->b->c and a->c you can't press c without pressing b also
1588994;1482468811;asciilifeform;phf: aah
1588995;1482468951;mircea_popescu;pruned huh
1588996;1482469019;mod6;and furthermore, i guess it doesn't make any sense to continue on at all if something is missing in the flow, because even if you could side-step where the breakage is, the vpatch down stream would actually fail to press anyway because its input hash wouldn't match the expected.
1588997;1482469062;asciilifeform;mod6: it isn't 'missing', your vtron should simply disregard everything that hung below it
1588998;1482469063;mod6;my v seems to do the correct thing by dying, but maybe showing the entire flow post breakage might be incorrect as well.
1588999;1482469073;asciilifeform;dying is incorrect here
1589000;1482469097;mod6;i think it should die.  when its trying to press and it enounters something that doesn't match: death.
1589001;1482469119;asciilifeform;but it wasn't pressing in this example
1589002;1482469120;mod6;it would probably be better form to never have to die, but to never hit that case where we must die.
1589003;1482469126;asciilifeform;it was computing flow
1589004;1482469136;mod6;the same flow computation happens in both places.
1589005;1482469167;asciilifeform;when you ask a vtron to press, it has to be for something that is in the flow
1589006;1482469179;asciilifeform;computing flow must never fail
1589007;1482469198;asciilifeform;when you, say, remove someone from your wot,
1589008;1482469218;asciilifeform;if this orphans a tree branch, it should simply fall off
1589009;1482469233;asciilifeform;i.e. your vtron doesn't see it in flow any more.
1589010;1482469237;mod6;so back to the model:  a->b->c->d  if I remove 'c', all that should show up in the flow is 'a->b' and all that is pressable is 'a->b', should never attempt to even press 'a->b->d'
1589011;1482469257;asciilifeform;aha!
1589012;1482469276;asciilifeform;d is not in your universe no moar
1589013;1482469285;mod6;ok ok.
1589014;1482469286;mod6;got it.
1589015;1482469299;asciilifeform;unless and until you put c back in play.
1589016;1482469315;mod6;correct.  now you get an 'a->b->c->d'
1589017;1482469330;asciilifeform;this makes sense now, mod6 ?
1589018;1482469337;mod6;very much so.
1589019;1482469378;mod6;i'll work on something for this.  will update at that point. thanks for talking me through it. :]
1589020;1482469385;asciilifeform;np
1589021;1482469393;asciilifeform;i will add 1 thing:
1589022;1482469406;asciilifeform;there is only 1 case where a vtron ~must~ barf
1589023;1482469423;asciilifeform;that is if it finds a graph cycle.
1589024;1482469444;asciilifeform;it is impossible to operate correctly on a cyclical vflow.
1589025;1482469470;asciilifeform;if you ever see one, you gotta find and negrate the joker who closed the cycle.
1589026;1482469479;asciilifeform;and fix your wot.
1589027;1482469481;mod6;fwiw, i believe i've even tested this once by creating a special patch that pointed to an earlier patch in the flow.
1589028;1482469501;asciilifeform;it is the ~only~ must-die condition for a vtron.
1589029;1482469512;mod6;not 100% positive, but I seem to recall trying this once.  i think my thing broke with a 'cyclic graph!' or something
1589030;1482469519;asciilifeform;literally every other condition is recoverable.
1589031;1482469530;asciilifeform;i.e. your tree is still valid.
1589032;1482469540;asciilifeform;this includes empty set
1589033;1482469568;asciilifeform;(no patches, no sigs, and no wot, or simply 1 or 2 of these)
1589034;1482469693;mod6;also, as a note, i'll leave the anti-fuzz change in this new version -- it seems ~more~ correct than previous impl.
1589035;1482469736;asciilifeform;fuzzing is wrong in all cases, aha
1589036;1482470118;asciilifeform;i will rephrase again for clarity: for so long as you have 1 pubkey, which was used to make 1 seal, and that seal is for one, single patch, your only one, a genesis, you can display a flow. and literally every other file in .seals, .wot, .patches can be a lolcat.
1589037;1482470146;asciilifeform;if they are ~all~ lolcats, you simply have a null flow.
1589038;1482470154;asciilifeform;(no pressables)
1589039;1482470582;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588701 << dude fear is the mind eater.
1589040;1482470582;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 23:56 Framedragger: (mp suggested to invite him over, and here i am childishly fearing that he'll hate this place, mp will decide that he's not mp-complete/ready, and that's gonna be that. i know, sad.)
1589041;1482470603;mircea_popescu;anyway, he probably WILL hate this place, what with his bizarre notions of ethics etc. but whatevs.
1589042;1482470651;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588703 << dude wut ?
1589043;1482470651;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 23:57 asciilifeform: we had this with at least 1 d00d who i respected (spandrel/'bloody shovel')
1589044;1482470662;*;mircea_popescu checks, the only time i even said the word it was used as a noun.
1589045;1482470674;mircea_popescu;and that was in 2014.
1589046;1482470826;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1588960 << for srs.
1589047;1482470826;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 04:41 phf: there's no "correct" with v graphs, and every two months or so i spent some time meditating on what a v graph even is
1589048;1482470880;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1588979 << yes.
1589049;1482470880;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 04:49 mod6: are you saying, in my flow, in these traces, when i remove a middle vpatch or sig, that it shouldn't show anything in the flow after the breakage even if there are vpatches with valid sigs that correspond to wot entities present?
1589050;1482470908;mircea_popescu;as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1588738
1589051;1482470908;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 02:19 mircea_popescu: mod6 i read through http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt and indeed it seems right and proper vtronics. one q though : was there any patch not signed by asciilifeform interspersed in the flow ? because that's the only not tested case i think, if you have say a->b->c->d where a, c and d are signed by x. does it stop at a ?
1589052;1482470972;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1588990 << ah, but the idea was with single guy in wot.
1589053;1482470972;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 04:52 mod6: because there are other routes everywhere else that can follow.
1589054;1482470980;mircea_popescu;obv if there are alternate routes then it's ok.
1589055;1482471216;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589025 << it's not even clear to me this is actually possible to do. the closing element has to actually break a hash.
1589056;1482471216;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 05:04 asciilifeform: if you ever see one, you gotta find and negrate the joker who closed the cycle.
1589057;1482471229;mod6;yeah, if im in the wot too, and I have a valid sig to that one, then it's ok.
1589058;1482471230;mircea_popescu;ie, if someone can close a cycle, it's not time to negrate, it's time to get a better hash.
1589059;1482471255;mircea_popescu;mod6 yeah, if it's a (2 sigs) -> b(2 sigs) -> c(1 sig) -> d(2 sigs again) then it's a valid press.
1589060;1482471271;mircea_popescu;but the idea was, put just alf in wot, cut a seal midway, see what happens.
1589061;1482471290;mircea_popescu;as alf says, what happens should be all ulterior bits should fall off.
1589062;1482471292;mod6;yea, a solid test.
1589063;1482471324;mircea_popescu;anyway, it may feel a bit tedious/stupid/etc to keep workign these basics, but it'll pay off in time
1589064;1482471376;mod6;agreed.  we're getting there one bit at a time.
1589065;1482471419;mod6;this next round of refactoring for this might be some work, but in the end, i aught to write a bunch of these tests into automated ones.
1589066;1482471449;mod6;then once we agree that mine does what is deemed 'correct' others can use the tests to prove their own out.
1589067;1482471453;mod6;at least, somewhat.
1589068;1482471545;mod6;yeeep, lot of testing.
1589069;1482473144;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589055 << nope. making a cycle is trivial.
1589070;1482473144;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 05:33 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589025 << it's not even clear to me this is actually possible to do. the closing element has to actually break a hash.
1589071;1482473175;asciilifeform;just end up with even one descendant hash that already existed.
1589072;1482473245;asciilifeform;if this weren't easily detectable, vtronics would be entirely impossible
1589073;1482473256;asciilifeform;but fortunately-- it is.
1589074;1482474996;asciilifeform;think simply of the chess rule, that any player whk recreates a board position that existed at ANY previous point in the game -- forfeits.
1589075;1482475004;asciilifeform;*who
1589076;1482476752;davout;asciilifeform: has to be 3 times in a row iirc
1589077;1482487400;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588327 <<< guy finds a PKI on the floor, runs to show it to all the other retards...
1589078;1482487400;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 16:36 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Emin is pushing SGX like solutions. Seems everyone is infected with security theatre these days.
1589079;1482494465;Framedragger;http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/foreign-travelers-social-media-232930
1589080;1482494481;Framedragger;!$ getarchive http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/foreign-travelers-social-media-232930
1589081;1482494483;scriba;Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/hdhX2 (this was archived by scriba: no)
1589082;1482494527;Framedragger;<< "The U.S. government quietly began requesting that select foreign  visitors provide their Facebook, Twitter and other social media accounts  upon arriving in the country"
1589083;1482495875;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform let's take the simplest cycle : a->b and b->a ; to do this, a must contain the hash of b ; and b must contain the hash of a. how do you propose to accomplish this ?
1589084;1482496401;mircea_popescu;Framedragger well, maybe that'll make someone somewhere believe these matter! usg doing its best to support teh economy.
1589085;1482497396;shinohai;Happy Festivus Trilema!
1589086;1482497446;mircea_popescu;in further news nobody cares about, "4 million letters of 'empathy, support' dropped on Mosul". this thing, which was a) going to be a war that b) was going to take two weeks twelve weeks ago (and then a month, and then two, and here we are) has now degenerated in a fucking spam offensive.
1589087;1482497471;mircea_popescu;of the printed mail-order-catalogue sort, because apparently nobody cares about twitter and myspace over there natch.
1589088;1482497523;shinohai;The rebels were running out of TP, so the letters may come in handy in that regard.
1589089;1482497554;mircea_popescu;"In a new photo report purportedly released by the Islamic State, an ISIS suicide car bomber attacks Iraqi forces in the Intisar neighborhood of east Mosul, Iraq. The photo report was released on ISIS terrorist channels on December 22."
1589090;1482497590;mircea_popescu;so far there's "fake news" channels ; "terrorist" channels ; and of course "the media" aka http://trilema.com/2016/the-war-with-the-press/
1589091;1482497597;mircea_popescu;i wonder if there's going to also be a 4th.
1589092;1482497704;mircea_popescu;anyway alf will prolly appreciate : https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/photo_2016-12-22_07-09-311.jpg
1589093;1482497712;mircea_popescu;they are building the armored thing after all!
1589094;1482497811;mircea_popescu;(of all the weird therein included, it's of particular amusement to me that they do have the slant, but that they evidently introduced it graphically rather than numerically. nobody did the math required to see how that front apex should go ; it's just there because "that's how tanks look", forget blast flow simulations etc.)
1589095;1482498006;BingoBoingo;lol
1589096;1482498014;davout;http://www.expressio.fr/expressions/un-travail-d-arabe.php
1589097;1482498037;mircea_popescu;heh
1589098;1482498085;mircea_popescu;in these parts of the world it's un travail d'argentinian.
1589099;1482498225;mircea_popescu;(i suppose also lulzy, that the front wheel cover has hinges, whereas the back one is screw-mounted. why not the other way around ?)
1589100;1482498316;mircea_popescu;http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/002.jpg << the pet rocks are also pretty cool.
1589101;1482498371;mircea_popescu;(and check out the uniforms, everyone in iraq is O-9 ?!)
1589102;1482498504;*;mircea_popescu just checked, o-9 pay grade is from 14.5k to 18k A MONTH. it is literally a better deal to be an entry level sysadmin working in pasadena than a lieutenant-general working in baghdad.
1589103;1482498564;mircea_popescu;reviewing the travail d'americain the sysadmin puts in, it should come at no surprise that the us last won a war when the europeans ran the effort for them,\
1589104;1482498686;davout;what's that 0-9 thing?
1589105;1482498745;mircea_popescu;O-9. pay grade.
1589106;1482498766;mircea_popescu;like how much money is paid to various military positions in the us.
1589107;1482498897;mircea_popescu;three stars epaulettes as seen in 2nd pic would conventionally indicate a us lieutenant-general, which is paid as an O[fficer]-9, 2nd highest.
1589108;1482498913;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AE6059BDD7FE61498088A210017B6C8C64175A61EA7E69D7B6EC99B5E54F9603 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1510...7009 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.136.214.9 (ssh-rsa key from 83.136.214.9 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (secure4.edt02.net. FR)
1589109;1482498936;mircea_popescu;from context looks like it's prolly worth ~sergeant in iraq. which is not altogether a bad estimation of respective valor.
1589110;1482499486;mircea_popescu;“My heart! The light of my eyes! You are the heroes of Iraq, may God protect you. My soul, my heroes! But for God’s sake get out of the street and take cover from that sniper!” << bwhahaha this is just how arabic goes, too.
1589111;1482499510;mircea_popescu;"oh light of the heavens, divine dove, bring me a glass of water" "honey, i lost you at dove. you want an omlet ?"
1589112;1482500492;davout;god, whoever came up with HATEOAS deserves a bullet in the head
1589113;1482500843;mircea_popescu;the what now ?
1589114;1482500863;mircea_popescu;o look, rest-with-gui
1589115;1482500983;davout;because APIs *have* to be clever, because these people are too good for documentation
1589116;1482501039;mircea_popescu;davout this goes eerily with a http://trilema.com/2016/how-the-other-half-lives-a-very-seriously-funny-article/#selection-1023.253-1023.409 style of programming
1589117;1482501049;mircea_popescu;"since the link was no longer displayed, the spambots are deterred!"
1589118;1482501364;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589083 << the shortest cycle possible in v (assuming that all of the patches are valid, that is, actually produce the hashes they indicate as descendants, as outputted by gnudiff, as opposed to a hand-sewn crapolade which does not) is a->b->a. this happens if you have a patch 'c' that has 'b' as antecedent but 'a' as descendant.
1589119;1482501364;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 12:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's take the simplest cycle : a->b and b->a ; to do this, a must contain the hash of b ; and b must contain the hash of a. how do you propose to accomplish this ?
1589120;1482501394;asciilifeform;and it is trivial to make, if mircea_popescu really wants, i can post an example set , with a toy key, and he can hang his vtron.
1589121;1482501394;mircea_popescu;and how would it manage this ?
1589122;1482501409;mircea_popescu;i suspect there's another protocol issue at stake here.
1589123;1482501420;asciilifeform;i'ma post the example.
1589124;1482501424;mircea_popescu;so let's examine this theoretically. in order to make c, you must have a's hash, yes ?
1589125;1482501448;asciilifeform;a must exist, yes
1589126;1482501458;mircea_popescu;ok. and in order to make b, you must have c's hash, yes ?
1589127;1482501462;asciilifeform;nope.
1589128;1482501473;mircea_popescu;post the example i guess ?
1589129;1482501480;asciilifeform;aite. gimme a few min.
1589130;1482501615;mircea_popescu;davout i am fwiw satisfied the problem is as follows : that fielding schmuck is an academitard. therefore publish or perish. meanwhile for incomprehensible reasons people decided to name some obvious item "rest" and reference him, as if he had anything to do. this created the basis for an academitard position for him, and put him in the publish or perish wringer. so he came up with the other thing, because gotta come up with
1589131;1482501615;mircea_popescu;something ; and the decerebrated mechanism will try to shoehorn it in, python 3 style, because IF THEY DO NOT, then academiatardism collapses altogether. they are if you will the academia fans, expending their own labour to support the fiction they enjoy.
1589132;1482501641;mircea_popescu;all this would have been avoided if a) people correctly observed that roy fielding is fundamentally incapable of having ideas, through not being in the wot.
1589133;1482501693;mircea_popescu;(we'll skip over the entire "waka" incident for the sake of public morals.)
1589134;1482501893;davout;the first things i get when looking into this waka thing are indeed nasty
1589135;1482502051;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
1589136;1482502051;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 17:23 trinque trying to wrap brain around whether this is a failure mode or universally true, but will have to implement tail recursion optimization in his own head first
1589137;1482502104;*;mircea_popescu might have just made the world's subtlest point about recursion.
1589138;1482504405;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/munchausen.tar.gz
1589139;1482504572;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this can't press ; 846f (genesis) is not used subsequently ?
1589140;1482504599;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a v set consisting solely of genesis is valid
1589141;1482504615;asciilifeform;(delete the other 2 patches and sigs and see this for yourself )
1589142;1482504615;mircea_popescu;yes but the next patches fail to reference the genesis.
1589143;1482504633;asciilifeform;it'd make no difference if they did
1589144;1482504647;asciilifeform;you can make entirely similar example where they do, that still contains loop.
1589145;1482504661;mircea_popescu;well, you just did my a->b b->a in three elements of which one is spurious after claiming a->b b->a is not it.
1589146;1482504664;mircea_popescu;aaaanyway :
1589147;1482504686;asciilifeform;i can make you another that follows whatever shape you like.
1589148;1482504704;asciilifeform;or -- can make for yourself, see.
1589149;1482504723;mircea_popescu;what you can't do is go back in time and agree at the juncture you actually meant to ; but the important point here is :
1589150;1482504749;asciilifeform;not being an aristotelian, i dun need to!111
1589151;1482504755;mircea_popescu;hm, actually, the hashes don't even check out. how was 702d... produced ?
1589152;1482504771;asciilifeform;take a guess
1589153;1482504776;mircea_popescu;plox to state.
1589154;1482504826;asciilifeform;the hashes, first of all, check out (make the file consisting of the text line and one newline and see)
1589155;1482504851;asciilifeform;but of course i made them the simple way, by vdiffing from genesis, but then deleting one link of the chain.
1589156;1482504856;mircea_popescu;ah damn newline
1589157;1482504919;mircea_popescu;yes. so what started all of this in my head, i been trying to lead like three times with "but the problem is :" - we may have a very bitcoin block-esque problem on our hands. specifically, the fact that the hash of a block doth not include the intended hash of its antecessor opens up to a problem we needn't be open to.
1589158;1482504936;mircea_popescu;suppose we had a rule stating that "all patches must include as a comment the patch upon they are to be applied" ?
1589159;1482504945;asciilifeform;but -- and i'd rather that mircea_popescu do this in his head -- you can make a 'munchausen' where both steps (or however many, it can be as long as you like) reference the genesis.
1589160;1482504980;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there isn't a 'the patch'
1589161;1482504991;asciilifeform;vpatches are not applied 'onto a patch'
1589162;1482505007;mircea_popescu;they do come in a definite order, yes ?
1589163;1482505030;asciilifeform;they can be applied in the legal order and strictly in the legal order, that's what v is ~for~
1589164;1482505038;mircea_popescu;right.
1589165;1482505047;asciilifeform;and btw i ~solved this~ in my first vtron
1589166;1482505058;asciilifeform;it will ring alarm if you run it on the munchausen.tar.gz set.
1589167;1482505073;asciilifeform;i posted this as a litmus test of sorts, for vtrons.
1589168;1482505088;mircea_popescu;this is fine, but the question is whether the specification as extent is correct
1589169;1482505093;asciilifeform;imho it is
1589170;1482505097;asciilifeform;cycles -- forbidden.
1589171;1482505098;mircea_popescu;specifically whether it shouldn't include a comment requirement as above.
1589172;1482505101;mircea_popescu;can you show this ?
1589173;1482505109;asciilifeform;and anyone who creates one, is quite obviously in the wrong
1589174;1482505120;asciilifeform;and i do not see any need for magical strings in comments.
1589175;1482505121;mircea_popescu;yes but why should this be enforced at the promise level.
1589176;1482505148;asciilifeform;because cycles in vflow are a Bad Thing and under no conceivable circumstances good ?
1589177;1482505159;asciilifeform;and the culprit is immediately and mechanically identifiable.
1589178;1482505161;mircea_popescu;so then why not make it so they are actually impossible ?
1589179;1482505241;asciilifeform;give example of how, using the munchausen set.
1589180;1482505457;mircea_popescu;if all patches are required to change a comment line in all files they touch, so that it contains the hash of that patch's intended antecessor ; then it is no longer possible to build cycles without deliberately hash-mining for them (because to close the cycle you will have to at one point claim as anterior an ulterior item).
1589181;1482505475;asciilifeform;you can still hash-mine for them.
1589182;1482505478;mircea_popescu;now whether this is actually a good idea is unclear.
1589183;1482505486;mircea_popescu;well yes, but if you do hash mine for them we change the hash.
1589184;1482505488;asciilifeform;and now you have a monstrous abortion that has to be 'self' aware
1589185;1482505495;mircea_popescu;hm.
1589186;1482505496;asciilifeform;instead of a very simple mapping.
1589187;1482505503;asciilifeform;imho my solution is the correct one.
1589188;1482505519;mircea_popescu;yeah it does add quite a bit of unwanted complexity doesn't it.
1589189;1482505521;asciilifeform;the creator of a cycle is in all cases identifiable. kick his teeth in, negrate.
1589190;1482505547;mircea_popescu;what is required to identify a cycle creator ?
1589191;1482505575;asciilifeform;say at time T there is no cycle.
1589192;1482505581;asciilifeform;at T+1 (after one patch) -- there is.
1589193;1482505591;asciilifeform;the signator(s) of that patch is the culprit.
1589194;1482505604;mircea_popescu;see, basically the fear here is that we DON'T escape the "swelf aware monstrosity" no matter what we do ; we may merely choose whether its in the comments or "somewhere else" magically.
1589195;1482505610;mircea_popescu;here's an example to illustrate what i mean :
1589196;1482505681;*;asciilifeform brb, tea
1589197;1482505707;mircea_popescu;a is a genesis ; b is built on a ; c is built on b ; d is built on c ; e is built on d ; f is built on b ; g is built on d. now both g->d->e->f->b->a and g->d->c->b->a are valid presses.
1589198;1482505725;mircea_popescu;suppose d->c and d->e occured within a second.
1589199;1482505728;mircea_popescu;who do you negrate ?
1589200;1482505797;mircea_popescu;(similarly, from a different pov - does this scheme open up cycle-negrate-arbutrage whereby an attacker could go around closing cycles and hoping we misidentify the culprit because of timing issues ?)
1589201;1482507808;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i drew the graph, not seeing what is meant in your example: what means 'now both g->d->e->f->b->a and g->d->c->b->a are valid presses' ?
1589202;1482507897;asciilifeform;the valid presses in the given graph are: a; a->b; a->b->f; a->b->c; a->b->c->d; a->b->c->d->g; and a->b->c->d->e.
1589203;1482507932;asciilifeform;(notation seen here is simply the order in which patches apply.)
1589204;1482508066;asciilifeform;i'll add that f, g, e ~may~ be pressable together in some combination, or may not, it depends on the actual 'patchons' inside
1589205;1482508151;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: your 'cycle arbitrageur' is precisely the same devil as my cornered-node-creator and panopticonic gossipd observer.
1589206;1482508205;asciilifeform;i.e. a thing that can only exist if ~everyone~ has been catastrophically lazy/retarded for a very long time.
1589207;1482508263;asciilifeform;otherwise he sits in hell playing cards with the other devils, where he belongs, and daren't stick out his nose.
1589208;1482508422;asciilifeform;but in re: 'timing issue', we had a thread where i brought up 'two(+) d00dz form a cycle, who do we negrate' and specifically stated that deedbot-for-vpatches is necessary, and that any two+ folx who insist on issuing patches into same blocktime, and end up being part of a loop, are ~both~ idiots/wreckers
1589209;1482508482;asciilifeform;so my cyclic(T)==false,  cyclic(T+1)==true, culprit is the signator(s) of the patch closing the loop, worx great, when this condition is adhered to
1589210;1482508526;asciilifeform;deedbot for patches; 1 per block.
1589211;1482508533;asciilifeform;you get guaranteed well-ordering.
1589212;1482509462;asciilifeform;this also would give mircea_popescu the thing he asked for, which was a litmus that'd let him reject a cycle-creating patch immediately from his light cone, before it can get into his vtron and cause headache. and that is, 'no patch may have a descendant that is also an antecedent of itself or of an earlier-blocktimed patch.'
1589213;1482509933;mircea_popescu;you also get guaranteed limited production of patches to 1 per block.
1589214;1482509938;asciilifeform;this is problem ?
1589215;1482509942;mircea_popescu;i have nfi
1589216;1482509954;mircea_popescu;i'm not making a positive argument here, and haven't throughout. just trying to examine this thing.
1589217;1482509972;asciilifeform;it is eminently worth examining.
1589218;1482509976;asciilifeform;if only for the n00bz.
1589219;1482510007;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so your contention here is that it is not possible to link a to g through a (b..f) set of patches such that (b..f) is a cycle and that two different paths exist from g to a ?
1589220;1482510016;asciilifeform;but yes, for my simple culprit-finding algo, you DO need well-ordered set of patches.
1589221;1482510057;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for the two paths to begin to exist, someone has to take a shit in the graph
1589222;1482510060;asciilifeform;and close a cycle.
1589223;1482510063;mircea_popescu;yes.
1589224;1482510069;asciilifeform;and we immediately will know who.
1589225;1482510086;mircea_popescu;well this immediately is problematic, because a cycle could be claimed to have been closed more than one way, is the point.
1589226;1482510099;asciilifeform;not if 1 patch per blocktime.
1589227;1482510110;asciilifeform;then we know the T at which no cycles, and the T+1 at which cycle exists.
1589228;1482510111;mircea_popescu;this so far seems a lot like a kludge.
1589229;1482510120;asciilifeform;it isn't though. it is mathematically bulletproof.
1589230;1482510125;mircea_popescu;in any case i don't want to discuss problems in a marriage with proposed solutions.
1589231;1482510143;asciilifeform;i contend that it isn't a problem, and that i solved it before releasing v.
1589232;1482510159;asciilifeform;it is a taxidermic head of a problem hanging in my study wall.
1589233;1482510173;asciilifeform;it is an ex-problem.
1589234;1482510174;mircea_popescu;because a) conventionally cycle-closing patches aren't to be released and b) anyone involved in a closed cycle gets hung ?
1589235;1482510206;asciilifeform;with 1-patch-per-block, there can be no ambiguity as to who is responsible for closing a cycle.
1589236;1482510232;mircea_popescu;again : there's no point in discussing solutions as part of discussing problems.
1589237;1482510268;asciilifeform;'there is mud on my hands' 'faucet is right there, go wash' 'don't discuss solution, let's discuss problem!'
1589238;1482510287;mircea_popescu;but in any case, turns out v actually has a previously poorly understood externality, in the sense of, requires a clock.
1589239;1482510306;asciilifeform;i asked many times for the clock, and pretty sure i explained ~why~
1589240;1482510329;asciilifeform;btw it does not require clock as such, only orderer.
1589241;1482510356;mircea_popescu;that is what a clock is.
1589242;1482510368;asciilifeform;orderer can be, e.g., a 'primus inter pares' monarch.
1589243;1482510371;asciilifeform;rather than clock.
1589244;1482510394;mircea_popescu;yes but this is one of those things you eminently do not wish to solve by human arbitrariety i dun think.
1589245;1482510406;asciilifeform;i agree.
1589246;1482510413;asciilifeform;fortunately we have a clock.
1589247;1482510428;asciilifeform;that is ordered enough for this job.
1589248;1482510484;asciilifeform;not sure that deedbot as-it-now-is would do the trick though
1589249;1482510492;asciilifeform;it'll need a 1-patch-at-a-time hopper.
1589250;1482510520;mircea_popescu;the cycle issue may require more thinking.
1589251;1482510528;asciilifeform;thinking doesn't hurt.
1589252;1482510532;mircea_popescu;furtunately it is not pressing.
1589253;1482510534;asciilifeform;but imho the problem is thoroughly nailed.
1589254;1482510540;asciilifeform;and i nailed it in 2015.
1589255;1482510551;mircea_popescu;you made a blockchain dependency in 2015 ?
1589256;1482510572;asciilifeform;well i do not maintain deedbot, and only could ask politely.
1589257;1482510616;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/23/practical-trigonometry/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Practical trigonometry.
1589258;1482510653;mircea_popescu;it's not altogether clear why the "hash whole thing, not just parts like fucking bitcoin blocks do" isn't a better solution. moves the clock externality to a strong hash externality
1589259;1482510660;mircea_popescu;but arguably the latter we already depend on anytway
1589260;1482510739;asciilifeform;there is unfortunately not an escape from the clock. as per the lamportclock thread.
1589261;1482510747;asciilifeform;ordering -- matters.
1589262;1482510760;mircea_popescu;yes, but ordering can be actually implemented by hashing
1589263;1482510788;mircea_popescu;earlier a knowing later b's hash is equivalent to either time travel or hash breaking.
1589264;1482510788;asciilifeform;nope
1589265;1482510798;asciilifeform;you're still making use of the order.
1589266;1482510810;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1589267;1482510810;asciilifeform;you used the word 'later'
1589268;1482510816;asciilifeform;the word 'later' implies an order.
1589269;1482510838;mircea_popescu;yes. this is the point - that order can be introduced by hashing. all items are earlier than all other items whose hashes they know.
1589270;1482510850;mircea_popescu;pff.  all items are later than all other items whose hashes they know.
1589271;1482510888;asciilifeform;notice, in the munchausen example, we had only 1 file, this is equivalent to 'hash everything'
1589272;1482510896;asciilifeform;(i.e. stuffing all of, e.g., trb, into one long document)
1589273;1482510908;asciilifeform;and cycle, notice, was still easy to make
1589274;1482510924;asciilifeform;and if there were no time ordering, it would not be apparent who made the cycle
1589275;1482510936;asciilifeform;(imagine instead of doctor mengele, each of the 3 patches had been signed by different people)
1589276;1482510981;mircea_popescu;i don't actually see any of these. to start with, "hash everything" is exactly not what was done in the example. it hashed ~the text~, it did not hash ~the antecessor's hash~. this is the problem. that it doesn't hash everything, but just the text.
1589277;1482510996;asciilifeform;that's what v is!!
1589278;1482511007;mircea_popescu;this is turning into an abbot and costello skit.
1589279;1482511074;asciilifeform;i can godelize your 'hash the patches' thing in the exact same way.
1589280;1482511076;asciilifeform;and make cycles.
1589281;1482511093;mircea_popescu;let me approach this matter from a different pov. do you agree that a string S consisting of computer code can be, depending on the context in which it is patched, the right thing or a deliberate subversion ?
1589282;1482511130;asciilifeform;quite so, and is half the reason why v is necessary to begin with.
1589283;1482511169;mircea_popescu;then therefore, do you agree with the proposition that signing S as long as S consists strtictly of computer code with no indication of context is a meaningless at best and dangerous at worst activity ?
1589284;1482511203;asciilifeform;it would be a Bad Thing. if we were to do it. which we don't, because the antecedent hash gives us the context.
1589285;1482511231;mircea_popescu;so then all strings S must incluide the antecedent hash. and in this definition string S = foo.txt ; nothing else.
1589286;1482511240;asciilifeform;(standard gnupatch behaviour gives you precisely this contextless crapola , yes)
1589287;1482511260;asciilifeform;they currently include the antecedent hash.
1589288;1482511287;asciilifeform;diff -uNr a/foo.txt b/foo.txt
1589289;1482511288;asciilifeform;--- a/foo.txt 846fdfb9d99724efbc97b1d2b519a221df9724dec3375c54913c1853af221c8e5ad5b5b8c38fffe4b654066071eafd8194fe7b86faa5fbadfbf1c5b872e81410
1589290;1482511288;asciilifeform;+++ b/foo.txt 5ce2953ce7e2d11ce399e45eaa49aa8865af8760dd763ae5aa4298133257cf9931b2f04bdedc38a3aff52fb7a61e990d9b611d397e3db08d0449fddd887d7c27
1589291;1482511288;asciilifeform;@@ -1 +1 @@
1589292;1482511288;asciilifeform;-Foo Genesis, virginal.
1589293;1482511290;asciilifeform;+Foo Genesis, modified.
1589294;1482511292;mircea_popescu;no, because when I hashed to check your hashes i went sha512("Foo Genesis, modified.")
1589295;1482511292;asciilifeform;^ for the l0gz.
1589296;1482511307;mircea_popescu;i was supposed to go  sha512(#846fdfb9d99724efbc97b1d2b519a221df9724dec3375c54913c1853af221c8e5ad5b5b8c38fffe4b654066071eafd8194fe7b86faa5fbadfbf1c5b872e81410 "Foo Genesis, modified.")
1589297;1482511381;asciilifeform;i dun get the problem here?
1589298;1482511386;mircea_popescu;this is because the "same" string (Foo Genesis, modified.) is NOT THE SAME string, depending on the contemplated context. it is a string in 846fdf... and ANOTHER string in whatever other context.
1589299;1482511514;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the antecedent hash in this example ~is~ the entire context, because the example is so short.
1589300;1482511536;mircea_popescu;right.
1589301;1482511558;mircea_popescu;actually, because of how we build the presses, ALL contexts are "so short" as this one ; in the sense the antecedent hash always suffices.
1589302;1482511602;asciilifeform;for so long as you ban cycles, the graph is guaranteed to behave in the predictable and sane way i described when first released v.
1589303;1482511635;asciilifeform;see knuth's discussion of garbage collector, for related example.
1589304;1482511653;asciilifeform;whole thing is more or less a straight rip of it.
1589305;1482511653;mircea_popescu;~so long as we ban niggers, politics will work ok. sure, the issue is how to ban them.
1589306;1482511670;asciilifeform;i described one provably-correct algo for doing so, in this thread.
1589307;1482511675;mircea_popescu;but any any rate, i think this discussion's exhausted itself, we'll have to see later on what we do about this.
1589308;1482511700;asciilifeform;why continue to pretend that this is an open problem ? do you see an issue with the blocktime algo ?
1589309;1482511710;mircea_popescu;yes ; that it requires blocktime.
1589310;1482511739;mircea_popescu;(also that it's not currently implemented anywhere, but that's minor. the reason it's not implemented is that it doesn't, at least to my eyes, make much sense.)
1589311;1482511758;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu or anybody else wants to try to 'square the circle' and make a v-prime algo that doesn't need ordering, i will helpfully show how it breaks.
1589312;1482511781;asciilifeform;and this is rapidly turning into the one-time-pad thread.
1589313;1482511782;mircea_popescu;you're very kind, but the problem doesn't need that redefinition.
1589314;1482511807;mircea_popescu;ordering is provided by hashing ; we're currently not actually using this, no idea why, but whatever. i really mean it when i say the discussion's exhausted itself, im not gonna sit here an' retrace the same circle witcha.
1589315;1482511816;asciilifeform;even d00d with cock that only fits on a spool in atlantic cable-laying ship cannot break arithmetic.
1589316;1482511986;mod6;asciilifeform: hey, say I wanted to test my toposort...
1589317;1482512002;mod6;(i played with this for a long time lastnight after that quick conversation)
1589318;1482512030;mod6;if i take this output hash from genesis for say, net.cpp:
1589319;1482512031;mod6;--- a/bitcoin/src/net.cpp false
1589320;1482512031;mod6;+++ b/bitcoin/src/net.cpp b72b573ba77b095e2497e297ba5b02aa68317f67438ee070fee86e129a95b85dc9b5ca98e96441bb2b3b98263dd88630990c913affbabf890641f349d1c6da47
1589321;1482512074;mod6;so 'b72b573' ... and drop this into a down-flow vpatch that touches net.cpp, that should cause the cycle right? like so:
1589322;1482512091;mod6;asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch:
1589323;1482512101;mod6;diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/net.cpp b/bitcoin/src/net.cpp
1589324;1482512101;mod6;--- a/bitcoin/src/net.cpp c67fdd55e9d9d6b4973122b76729d7e83a456a8dc410f1c130cffbfd9f626c47ca7e8006bde912d9e0bd0a4b8457e895270d4a0efd22c4a199cd52ffd95b10dd
1589325;1482512104;mod6;+++ b/bitcoin/src/net.cpp b72b573ba77b095e2497e297ba5b02aa68317f67438ee070fee86e129a95b85dc9b5ca98e96441bb2b3b98263dd88630990c913affbabf890641f349d1c6da47
1589326;1482512130;asciilifeform;this is not actually a cycle, do you know why ?
1589327;1482512138;asciilifeform;because it takes you back to genesis
1589328;1482512144;mod6;ah. ok.
1589329;1482512152;asciilifeform;notice, my vtron will not barf on it. because it does not cause a munchausening.
1589330;1482512167;asciilifeform;(where an item comes to exist ex nihilo, without flowing from genesis)
1589331;1482512236;mod6;im not sure if i follow. are you saying that genesis isn't a good place to test it because it is a root?
1589332;1482512241;asciilifeform;returns to genesis are topologically harmless and so were legal in my vtron (they cannot cause any kind of inconsistent behaviour.) note that a deedbotted vtron as discussed in today's thread, would still ban them.
1589333;1482512279;asciilifeform;mod6: take a paper and draw a loop containing the genesis.
1589334;1482512295;asciilifeform;any patch in that loop is pressable without spinning in circle forever.
1589335;1482512306;asciilifeform;because you can TRACE BACK TO GENESIS
1589336;1482512308;asciilifeform;see.
1589337;1482512319;asciilifeform;you never walk the entire loop, full circle.
1589338;1482512348;asciilifeform;whereas in munchausen.tar.gz, you WOULD walk forever if you tried to flow
1589339;1482512351;asciilifeform;or to press
1589340;1482512357;asciilifeform;like ants in a circle.
1589341;1482512386;mod6;well, i was trying to discern weather my toposort is correct or not.
1589342;1482512396;mircea_popescu;thinking about it, is it actually possible to make a cycle where at least one element traces back to genesis ?
1589343;1482512408;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: mod6 posted one above.
1589344;1482512430;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is not illegal in my vtron because the toposort still provably terminates.
1589345;1482512435;mod6;and when I do that above test ^, i never hit this line: death("Cyclic Graph!\n");
1589346;1482512442;mircea_popescu;how is it a cycle if it terminates ?
1589347;1482512443;asciilifeform;and you won't, if you copied my toposort.
1589348;1482512444;mod6;it just hangs.
1589349;1482512455;asciilifeform;mod6: so i guess you did not copy my toposort.
1589350;1482512476;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is a cycle topologically, but given as it contains the genesis, the 'ant walker' stops at the genesis, and does not walk in circles.
1589351;1482512490;asciilifeform;'the buck stops here.'
1589352;1482512499;mircea_popescu;i don't get it, the genesis has an antecessor ?
1589353;1482512503;asciilifeform;it does not!!
1589354;1482512507;mod6;yeah, i certainly tried.  and i thought i even tested this before... so maybe there was a regression.  but i'll admit, that python code is very strange to me eith the for with the else.
1589355;1482512509;mircea_popescu;so then how is it a cycle ?
1589356;1482512509;asciilifeform;that is the definition of genesis, it has no antecessor.
1589357;1482512528;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: because dr.mengele makes a patch that ~produces~ the genesis, thinking he is oh so clever
1589358;1482512567;mircea_popescu;but that is not ~the~ genesis ; that is merely the same string of code.
1589359;1482512570;asciilifeform;so it would appear, if you naively drew the graph, that the genesis now has an antecedent
1589360;1482512586;asciilifeform;but in fact it -- definitionally -- does not, even if someone tries to 'give' it one.
1589361;1482512597;mircea_popescu;hm.
1589362;1482512605;asciilifeform;the genesis, note, is not merely a string of code.
1589363;1482512609;asciilifeform;it also is:
1589364;1482512620;asciilifeform;diff -uNr a/foo.txt b/foo.txt
1589365;1482512620;asciilifeform;--- a/foo.txt false
1589366;1482512620;asciilifeform;+++ b/foo.txt 846fdfb9d99724efbc97b1d2b519a221df9724dec3375c54913c1853af221c8e5ad5b5b8c38fffe4b654066071eafd8194fe7b86faa5fbadfbf1c5b872e81410
1589367;1482512620;asciilifeform;@@ -0,0 +1 @@
1589368;1482512620;asciilifeform;+Foo Genesis, virginal.
1589369;1482512631;asciilifeform;note the '--- a/foo.txt false'.
1589370;1482512652;asciilifeform;fiat lux.
1589371;1482512677;mircea_popescu;so now. how would one make a cycle whereof at least one element actually traces back to genesis ?
1589372;1482512727;asciilifeform;here's one way:
1589373;1482512736;asciilifeform;diff -uNr a/foo.txt b/foo.txt
1589374;1482512736;asciilifeform;--- a/foo.txt 846fdfb9d99724efbc97b1d2b519a221df9724dec3375c54913c1853af221c8e5ad5b5b8c38fffe4b654066071eafd8194fe7b86faa5fbadfbf1c5b872e81410
1589375;1482512736;asciilifeform;+++ b/foo.txt false
1589376;1482512736;asciilifeform;@@ -1 +0,0 @@
1589377;1482512736;asciilifeform;-Foo Genesis, virginal.
1589378;1482512790;asciilifeform;note that a correct vtron will not misbehave if you have this.
1589379;1482512827;asciilifeform;returning to genesis is permitted, because the toposort still terminates.
1589380;1482512843;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i specifically want a cycle (n >1) where one element traces back to genesis. it seems to me that because one patch can only identify one antecedent, it is not possible to create cycles for the ~same reason organic chemistry doesn't work on hydrogen and oxygen only.
1589381;1482512846;asciilifeform;(this was an aesthetic choice of mine, it can be revoked quite simply)
1589382;1482512865;davout;why is it "returning to genesis" rather than "pressing something that happens to be equal to the genesis" ?
1589383;1482512877;asciilifeform;davout: those are the same thing
1589384;1482512883;asciilifeform;there is no colour of bits.
1589385;1482512885;mircea_popescu;cuz shorter i guess.
1589386;1482512892;mod6;<+asciilifeform> note that a correct vtron will not misbehave if you have this. << am trying this...
1589387;1482512995;davout;and why is it considered an issue? i mean, what if we realize all these patches were retarded, that we roll them all back, but want to keep the flow for historical purposes?
1589388;1482513005;mircea_popescu;nah.
1589389;1482513046;mircea_popescu;per doctrine you're supposed to rebase. can still keep for "historical purpose"
1589390;1482513095;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/VZVHu/?raw=true << here is your 'cyclic ring of 3 atoms'
1589391;1482513124;asciilifeform;cum genesis.
1589392;1482513133;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this goes a->b b->c c->a
1589393;1482513137;asciilifeform;it is legal in my vtron, because it 'returns to earth'
1589394;1482513141;mircea_popescu;what i want is a->b->c->b.
1589395;1482513160;mircea_popescu;because exactly : yours is legal and fine ; mine is trouble.
1589396;1482513181;asciilifeform;yours rings the alarm bell.
1589397;1482513190;mircea_popescu;but ~can it actually be made~.
1589398;1482513191;asciilifeform;i will post it, because i have it handy
1589399;1482513260;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/TwMUZ/?raw=true << this sets off the alarm.
1589400;1482513312;mircea_popescu;but this is a->b->c->d(=b). the only reason d is confused with b is because we don't hash correctly.
1589401;1482513325;asciilifeform;we hash correctly.
1589402;1482513338;asciilifeform;and there is no confusion.
1589403;1482513341;asciilifeform;the alarm -- rings.
1589404;1482513345;asciilifeform;and you can prove that it will.
1589405;1482513349;mod6;ok
1589406;1482513370;mod6;so i think i've tested exactly what you laid out, asciilifeform, with V99995 (the current version out there), and this is the result:
1589407;1482513373;mod6;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/BRz2A/?raw=true
1589408;1482513395;mod6;"returned to earth"
1589409;1482513401;asciilifeform;which is correct.
1589410;1482513425;asciilifeform;mod6: now try to get antecedents for foo-modified
1589411;1482513433;mod6;ok
1589412;1482513438;mod6;any others while i'm at it?
1589413;1482513443;asciilifeform;nah
1589414;1482513496;mod6;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/B00ZK/?raw=true
1589415;1482513527;asciilifeform;correct.
1589416;1482513533;asciilifeform;it stopped at genesis.
1589417;1482513549;mircea_popescu;in point of fact, it should have looked like this : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/u51YZ/?raw=true and so following.
1589418;1482513550;asciilifeform;mod6's vtron, in this respect, worx.
1589419;1482513555;mircea_popescu;then there'd be absolutely no b=d ambiguity.
1589420;1482513644;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this destroys the ability to see that we in fact returned to genesis. has it occurred to you to wonder why even to have patches at all? why not everyone just signs the entire hindenburg titanic of trb every time he changes a line ?!
1589421;1482513697;mircea_popescu;we can't "return to genesis".
1589422;1482513721;asciilifeform;sure we can. at least under my original vtron, this was a legal operation because it does not produce an eternal walk.
1589423;1482513741;mircea_popescu;that it was supported by some implementation at some point doesn't actually provide it with cognitive content.
1589424;1482513748;asciilifeform;you can ban it, as shown above in mircea_popescu's paste, by demanding that no new patch produce the antecedent of an old one.
1589425;1482513757;asciilifeform;which still requires ordering.
1589426;1482513767;asciilifeform;to have concept of 'new' and 'old'.
1589427;1482513768;mircea_popescu;isn't ordering therein implicit ?
1589428;1482513775;mircea_popescu;there's only one way to fit them all together.
1589429;1482513798;asciilifeform;in mircea_popescu's paste, there is only 1 way.
1589430;1482513815;mircea_popescu;right, is what i meanty
1589431;1482513861;asciilifeform;what you need ordering for is if someone ~does~ break the no-old-antecedent-hashes-as-descendants rule
1589432;1482513867;asciilifeform;and you want to find out ~who~
1589433;1482513888;mircea_popescu;ie, if someone actually mines a hash, you mean ?
1589434;1482513906;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's solution, if i understand it, is to include a gensym in each patch body.
1589435;1482513912;asciilifeform;this still requires ordering.
1589436;1482513945;asciilifeform;a gensym, in case anyone forgot, is defined as a symbol that is guaranteed to be unequal to all other invocations of gensym.
1589437;1482513948;mircea_popescu;nono, just previous patch hash. whenever you sit down to write a patch, you sit down to write it atop a press, or at any rate the situation resulting from a press. that has a "last item pressed" by necessity, and THAT will be your header.
1589438;1482513960;asciilifeform;there is no concept of 'previous' without a time order !
1589439;1482513975;asciilifeform;let's work this out :
1589440;1482513979;asciilifeform;say i sit down to write a patch.
1589441;1482513980;mircea_popescu;aite.
1589442;1482513983;asciilifeform;and at the same time, mircea_popescu also does.
1589443;1482513986;mircea_popescu;ok.
1589444;1482514011;asciilifeform;we at the same time write '#Patch bfffhlerghhl' for our gensyms.
1589445;1482514017;asciilifeform;and so we're nailed.
1589446;1482514022;mircea_popescu;nope.
1589447;1482514023;asciilifeform;in order to never do this, we have to confer.
1589448;1482514027;asciilifeform;or to have an oracle.
1589449;1482514034;asciilifeform;that orders for us.
1589450;1482514053;mircea_popescu;look : your patch will be sha512(#Patch bfffhlerghhl\nalf's words\n) and my patch will be sha512(#Patch bfffhlerghhl\nmp's words\n)
1589451;1482514056;mircea_popescu;they won't come out the same.
1589452;1482514063;asciilifeform;they will if the payload is the same.
1589453;1482514068;asciilifeform;which is same problem as in ordinary v.
1589454;1482514080;mircea_popescu;you propose we both write the same code on the same patch ? then yes, they come out the same. this is fine.
1589455;1482514085;asciilifeform;the inequality can only be enforced by an outside synchronizer.
1589456;1482514087;mircea_popescu;(also why i said no above to "gensym")
1589457;1482514103;mircea_popescu;i dunno if you read that ; did you ?
1589458;1482514108;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand, your solution to cycles is to demand that no two patches be equal.
1589459;1482514128;mircea_popescu;well in fact, to demand that hashes cover the patch and its context, not merely the patch.
1589460;1482514140;mircea_popescu;by similarity to how we'd like block hashes inbitcoin to cover the whole block and not just parts.
1589461;1482514167;mircea_popescu;but yes, in the last instance, it's to demand that "same patch" can only mean, "same text" + "applied in same place".
1589462;1482514173;asciilifeform;what does the string 'Patch for genesis' do in mircea_popescu's paste example ?
1589463;1482514189;mircea_popescu;it's a fixed word. you could have it #Patch for false
1589464;1482514192;mircea_popescu;if you prefer.
1589465;1482514271;asciilifeform;for starters, a patch can antecedentize 10,001 other patches.
1589466;1482514333;mircea_popescu;well, do we actually want this ? it doesn't seem to make sense ; in the sense that when you write the patch in question, you write it atop a specified code ; which is the result of a press ; which has a "last patch applied" necessarily. so that one should be the "antecedent" properly speaking.
1589467;1482514438;asciilifeform;it does not in point of fact have a unique 'last patch applied', because there is no way to prevent two people who do not know about one another from both writing :
1589468;1482514445;asciilifeform;diff -uNr a/foo.txt b/foo.txt
1589469;1482514446;asciilifeform;--- a/foo.txt 53fedeea28a5b6608b422f90f8c28e97c4604d6da5c18b8167b10c994166d8f0b47cd07bca8a6e4e53b6a961bef75f494c70e97437b7afd2d69c4110d7c06575
1589470;1482514446;asciilifeform;+++ b/foo.txt
1589471;1482514446;asciilifeform;25ce1cf14a94791ca4d0187cbc4247408cbc0c088dff1f13b312dff1d71af6b260d76a4df1277b66ed683dedc02852cbb3f366502459941f5e09e4594e733ac6
1589472;1482514446;asciilifeform;@@ -2 +2 @@
1589473;1482514448;asciilifeform;-#Patch for genesis.
1589474;1482514450;asciilifeform;-Foo Genesis, virginal.
1589475;1482514452;asciilifeform;+#Patch for 53fedeea28a5b6608b422f90f8c28e97c4604d6da5c18b8167b10c994166d8f0b47cd07bca8a6e4e53b6a961bef75f494c70e97437b7afd2d69c4110d7c06575
1589476;1482514455;asciilifeform;+Foo Genesis, modified.
1589477;1482514457;asciilifeform;i.e. identical patch.
1589478;1482514459;asciilifeform;which takes you to the same place.
1589479;1482514461;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but when you write another one, you ~have to~ choose one of them.
1589480;1482514463;asciilifeform;UNLESS we have clock.
1589481;1482514476;asciilifeform;they are the same bits ! you cannot 'choose 1'
1589482;1482514484;mircea_popescu;not by my model above.
1589483;1482514498;asciilifeform;martians make a copy of mircea_popescu ! which mircea_popescu shoots which other !
1589484;1482514521;asciilifeform;you cannot prevent the identical bitstrings, regardless of what epicycles you come up with. other than by ordering.
1589485;1482514531;asciilifeform;there is no squaring for this circle, mircea_popescu .
1589486;1482514535;mircea_popescu;in any case, as described v becomes an actual bitcoin , very much in the sense of "slavegirl powered btc" - each "block" ie vpatch is mined etc. this de facto allows to have things such as a "development clock" for perhaps other usage.
1589487;1482514565;mircea_popescu;(it is uniquely idiotic to clock v patches by bitcoin - because for eg what happens in 2115 when v is the basis of bitcoin and a bug occurs which makes blocks not happen anymore and has to be fixed by a vpatch which  can't exist because no blocks.)
1589488;1482514567;asciilifeform;all bitcoin-like systems are doomed to have vaguely same shape, just like airplanes are doomed to have wings.
1589489;1482514595;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for so long as you have the flame continuously burn, and at no point 'everyone died', it runs.
1589490;1482514606;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if you mean that you and i both sign the same patch text in the same tree context, the result here has been the very common, and very benign, MULTIPLE SEALS. which we currently have.
1589491;1482514613;asciilifeform;just as bitcoin will still work when we rebake it with old balances and new clockwork.
1589492;1482514624;mircea_popescu;this is not true. bitcoin blocks can stop right now.
1589493;1482514630;mircea_popescu;the stoppage may require a patch
1589494;1482514641;asciilifeform;what of it
1589495;1482514645;mircea_popescu;except woe, you can't make it because someone already made a patch for this block and you aren't going to see another block without a patch.
1589496;1482514672;asciilifeform;fortunately there are other ways of unambiguous ordering for the record.
1589497;1482514711;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu takes the patch, writes it in corpses of usg soldiers in the desert, photographers come, it is printed in every paper in the world; now -- ordered.
1589498;1482515146;mats;the butts are rising
1589499;1482515196;mats;happy non denominational winter holiday
1589500;1482516017;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform lemme state this thing from my pov for teh record here.
1589501;1482516024;asciilifeform;plz
1589502;1482516073;asciilifeform;for ze well-ordered record!
1589503;1482516519;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/F4SWa/?raw=true << another example of convergence
1589504;1482516542;mircea_popescu;1. all ordered sets will create cycles whenever the index repeats ; 2. tmsr uses ordered sets to resolve specific problems of code development ; the application is called v ; 3. for the purpose tmsr uses ordered sets for, cycles are intolerable (the turing problem resolves to "acyclic set graph" in this particular case) ; 4. there is no way to guarantee numbers do not repeat.
1589505;1482516543;mircea_popescu;this outlines a theoretical problem, which is present. it does not have many practical implications at the present time for purely political ("thou shalt not cycle!" is an imperative) and sociological (not that many people hammering out that many patches yet) reasons. therefore its solution is not in any sense pressing.
1589506;1482516543;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, two different solutions have been considered. one is to attach an outside clock to the process. this has the obvious disadvantage of attaching an outside clock to the process. the other is to modify the indexing process for the set, from the current "index is hash of textual content" to a more advanced "index is hash of textual content + its context". as an exemplary poc it was proposed that this change may be i
1589507;1482516547;mircea_popescu;mplemented as introducing a comment which references the previous item in the indexed set - but this is by no means the only, or the required, or standards-candidate implementation.
1589508;1482516550;mircea_popescu;now, because of a naive "repetition creates cycles" and "index=text content" joint assumption, you automatically imagine that two people signing the same (text+context) pair would create a cycle. not anymore - the situation neatly reduces to "two people sign the same patch", ie, having multiple seals for the same patch.
1589509;1482516592;mircea_popescu;did i miss anything ?
1589510;1482516661;asciilifeform;the example i just posted involves two people, 'a' and 'b', who follow entirely different paths, come to same place, because they do not know about one another and there is no clock. now you can give them a place to put magical comment, but again they have to have a drumbeat or agreement method of one kind or another, or they can still follow this same path.
1589511;1482516679;*;mircea_popescu looks
1589512;1482516746;asciilifeform;carefully note that the patches a2 and b2 are not the same.
1589513;1482516770;asciilifeform;and that this sequence could be as long as one could possibly like, 10,001 if we like.
1589514;1482516795;mircea_popescu;i have nfi what i'm looking at here ; none of them correctly reference their antecedent hashes, so it's just random garbage
1589515;1482516806;mircea_popescu;note that "insert random garbage" has not actually been proposed as far as i know.
1589516;1482516827;asciilifeform;show me what 'correctly reference their antecedent hashes' would look like.
1589517;1482516852;mircea_popescu;mk a sec
1589518;1482516987;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/xfuHq/?raw=true < and so following.
1589519;1482516992;*;asciilifeform reads
1589520;1482517031;asciilifeform;you made b1 depend on a1
1589521;1482517033;asciilifeform;which it does not
1589522;1482517052;asciilifeform;a and b are on separate planets , and do not know about each other, and each was working from the genesis only.
1589523;1482517057;asciilifeform;this was quite apparent from my paste.
1589524;1482517103;mircea_popescu;mk lemme restate this then!
1589525;1482517113;asciilifeform;b1 and a1 are in contradiction, you can apply one or the other to the genesis.
1589526;1482517125;asciilifeform;b2 can only be applied on top of b1, and a2, similarly, on top of a1.
1589527;1482517130;asciilifeform;(this in my original example.)
1589528;1482517177;asciilifeform;they have entirely different paths, and so making them explicitly state their path, will not save you
1589529;1482517201;asciilifeform;(which is what i gather mircea_popescu intended to do in his paste)
1589530;1482517231;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/lpxZK/?raw=true >
1589531;1482517276;mircea_popescu;next a line will reference f1bebb8.... and next b line will reference 33529af2cb74...
1589532;1482517295;asciilifeform;what does putting 74e20d520ba4ecfdb59d98ac213deccecf591c9c6bfc5996ac158ab6facd6611cce7dd22120b63ebe9217f159506f352ce0ee6c0c2a1d200841ae21635dc5f9a in two different places, give you ?
1589533;1482517306;asciilifeform;it is already in
1589534;1482517307;asciilifeform;--- a/foo.txt 74e20d520ba4ecfdb59d98ac213deccecf591c9c6bfc5996ac158ab6facd6611cce7dd22120b63ebe9217f159506f352ce0ee6c0c2a1d200841ae21635dc5f9a
1589535;1482517308;asciilifeform;in both
1589536;1482517316;mircea_popescu;adding it in the actual file makes it part of the hash for the file.
1589537;1482517335;asciilifeform;of the patch..?
1589538;1482517339;mircea_popescu;yes.
1589539;1482517344;asciilifeform;nobody's hashing ~the patches~. mircea_popescu wants to ?
1589540;1482517376;mircea_popescu;dude. adding it in the actual file makes it part of the diff of the patch which makes it part of the hash.
1589541;1482517377;mircea_popescu;wtf.
1589542;1482517384;asciilifeform;nobody's diffing the patches, mircea_popescu
1589543;1482517407;asciilifeform;you will need to describe a v-prime where patches get diffed
1589544;1482517416;asciilifeform;(to produce what? patches of patches ?)
1589545;1482517434;asciilifeform;if you formalize this -- we can work from that.
1589546;1482517434;mircea_popescu;obstructive reading ftw.
1589547;1482517437;mircea_popescu;let's indulge.
1589548;1482517466;mircea_popescu;adding the hash of the antecedent to the actual file makes that hash part of the diff of the actual file, which makes it part of the hash of the patch (ie, diff of files).
1589549;1482517471;mircea_popescu;happy nao or needs more pass ?
1589550;1482517531;asciilifeform;i can still make you a cycle.
1589551;1482517533;asciilifeform;in this system.
1589552;1482517545;asciilifeform;without hash collisions, either.
1589553;1482517578;mircea_popescu;please!
1589554;1482517581;asciilifeform;but now i can also make 10,000,001 paths that lead to the same press, and cannot be easily distinguished by machine. which is a headache that normal v does not suffer from.
1589555;1482517607;mircea_popescu;yeah, i'm not saying this is some sort of great improvement.
1589556;1482517633;mircea_popescu;i am saying however it makes cycles impossible, so let's see that part.
1589557;1482517696;mircea_popescu;!!key Tribalkiller
1589558;1482517699;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/yKhjR/?raw=true
1589559;1482517889;mircea_popescu;and while he's incapacitated, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587343 << to briefly revisit the whole "greeks were actually smarter than you" thread : naive set theory (as expoused by, say, frege) runs into a problem known as russel's paradox : should the set of sets that don't include themselves include itself ?
1589560;1482517889;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 19:03 mircea_popescu: should be pretty evident that a dimension defined in terms of divisibility is very fundamentally not the same thing as the latin notion of dimension-as-extensibility.
1589561;1482517889;mircea_popescu;at issue is, of course, the constructivist approach to sets ; ZFC (which is the predominant, if unexamined, contemporaneous basis for set theory) disposes with this naivity, and instead approaches the matter greek-style : all sets are "constructed" by criteria in the sense of carving subsets from the superset V (ie the v Neumann universe). it is perhaps worth noting that russel's own solution favoured ~fucking over logic~ rat
1589562;1482517889;mircea_popescu;her than the obvious renounciation of the constructivist delusion.
1589563;1482517891;mircea_popescu;so yes, monkey makes ballista, shoots man. then monkey settles down, forgets about balista for a minute, spends TWO CENTURIES trying to figure out what man had already said. a rather hollow sort of victory, at least to my eyes.
1589564;1482517950;mircea_popescu;(in this application, russel = monkey.)
1589565;1482519645;asciilifeform;so i hand-cranked the sequence using mircea_popescu's method, to agglomerate, forever, a record of the path through the tree. and he is right that this will keep the toposort from detecting a loop. but this is rather like whitening an rng, it confuses only the machine, but not the reader, who will see that the ~output~ resulting from following the path is identical.
1589566;1482519655;asciilifeform;you still have a loop, semantically, but no mechanical means of detecting it.
1589567;1482519678;mircea_popescu;no, my contention is that this "Sameness" is entirely illusory.
1589568;1482519691;mircea_popescu;in the sense contemplated in http://trilema.com/2014/pro-idiotas-which-obviously-means-people-who-have-ideas-ie-idiots/
1589569;1482519694;asciilifeform;a == a
1589570;1482519698;asciilifeform;said your very same aristotle.
1589571;1482519709;mircea_popescu;mno. "a" does not exist. mp(a) != rando(a).
1589572;1482519717;mircea_popescu;ie, idiots can not have ideas. no matter what they do.
1589573;1482519726;asciilifeform;the mp-ness of a is provided by his seal.
1589574;1482519736;mircea_popescu; the same exact string, if said by me, is an idea - if said by rando, is nothing.
1589575;1482519740;asciilifeform;so the actual bits are not in fact the same.
1589576;1482519753;asciilifeform;a+mpseal(a) != a+randoseal(a)
1589577;1482519755;asciilifeform;bitwise.
1589578;1482519763;mircea_popescu;right, which is what happens here. there's no such thing as "code", but only "x's code" even the same word "for" is not the same word.
1589579;1482519776;asciilifeform;but the thing that makes it belong to somebody, and not some other, is the seal.
1589580;1482519781;asciilifeform;not an imagined soul-substance.
1589581;1482519823;mircea_popescu;the text ; the context ; and the ownership.
1589582;1482519841;mircea_popescu;the context is not imagined, but very mach part of a corrent understanding of text.
1589583;1482519892;asciilifeform;all that cannot be calculated mechanically, is, for the purpose of making a mechanism, imaginary.
1589584;1482519926;mircea_popescu;this is a dubious statement.
1589585;1482519951;mircea_popescu;in any case, "-if + for" is NOT the same thing wherever it appears. even if the strings are equal.
1589586;1482520314;asciilifeform;let's consider what http://btcbase.org/patches would look like if we had been using this algo.
1589587;1482520380;asciilifeform;is it even still possible to draw anything like a readable graph ? or would it look like a ball of yarn where it's this-here-copy-or-fuckyou, and it is not clear at all what was changed and what relied on what.
1589588;1482520462;mircea_popescu;seems to me it would look exactly the same.
1589589;1482520468;asciilifeform;nope.
1589590;1482520473;asciilifeform;it'd look like rigor mortis.
1589591;1482520475;mircea_popescu;how would it differ ?
1589592;1482520482;mircea_popescu;yes but specifically.
1589593;1482520544;asciilifeform;take, say, 'asciilifeform_lets_lose_testnet'.
1589594;1482520550;mircea_popescu;ok
1589595;1482520643;asciilifeform;actually, strike that;
1589596;1482520649;asciilifeform;take mod6's latest, the makefiles patch.
1589597;1482520703;mircea_popescu;ok.
1589598;1482520777;asciilifeform;upstream from it, we have 'mod6_der_high_low_s' , 'malleus_mikehearnificarum', and 'asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected' .
1589599;1482520805;mircea_popescu;yes.
1589600;1482520889;asciilifeform;(this is a difficult process because we have multiple 'patchons' inside a patch..)
1589601;1482520911;mircea_popescu;so what'd be the problem ?
1589602;1482520955;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's algo forbids sibling leaves, looks like.
1589603;1482520962;mircea_popescu;how do you mean ?
1589604;1482521120;asciilifeform;if each patch nails down an explicit 'and on top of THIS' press sequence, it drags the entire universe behind it, all of a sudden there is no such thing as 'sibling', i.e. a thing that goes from same ancestor to a different but nonconflicting place.
1589605;1482521186;mircea_popescu;there's multiple approaches available. a) each patch nails down the whole list of direct antecedents, so it'd be 3 in this case ; b) each patch signer picks an arbitrary antecedent to reference of the list (of here - 3), others are free to "fork" it by picking a different one or w/e.
1589606;1482521198;mircea_popescu;i don't see this impossibility you discuss.
1589607;1482521209;asciilifeform;you will end up with massive verticals.
1589608;1482521222;asciilifeform;which is same as not even using v at all, but signing the entire project again and again.
1589609;1482521239;mircea_popescu;well i dunno, the idea of code kinda is to be massive verticals. it;s unclear to me whence this "Signing entire project" comes from either.
1589610;1482521239;asciilifeform;i already get grumbles that trb is an asciilifeform-vertical.
1589611;1482521250;asciilifeform;and asciilifeform doesn't even sit in trb-foundation!
1589612;1482521269;mircea_popescu;i also dun get such grumbles ? apparently there's a lot of divergence to be discussed here lol.
1589613;1482521350;asciilifeform;according to legend, once upon a time, long ago, mircea_popescu lost his house key. so the next day he ordered twenty wagons of glue, and glued everything together -- the gurlz, the keys, his keyboard, his chair, ...
1589614;1482521356;asciilifeform;never lost key again!
1589615;1482521375;asciilifeform;this ~is~ a solution to 'i never again want to lose the key'
1589616;1482521452;mircea_popescu;according to similar legend, there was once a bee dog who saw a glass bottle. because it wasn't red it therefore was grey and because it wasn't fleecy it therefopre was toothy and so the bee dog ran to town and warned everyone of the wolf.
1589617;1482521489;mircea_popescu;the next day, bee dog saw a duck. because it wasn't blue therefore it was white and because it didn't have arms it therefore had claws and the bee dog ran back to town and warned everyone of the white wolf
1589618;1482521504;asciilifeform;obscurantist claptrap is not helping mircea_popescu's argument.
1589619;1482521510;mircea_popescu;you started it!
1589620;1482521595;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if your branches cannot converge (and under your algo, they cannot, because path dependence ~everywhere~) your tree gets cancer, every single patch creates a wholly separate universe that can never touch others.
1589621;1482521616;asciilifeform;even if it wants to.
1589622;1482521624;mircea_popescu;why can't it converge, i don't get it ?
1589623;1482521738;asciilifeform;because every descendant would be stuck having to pick, arbitrarily, one or the other path. and so on for ~each~ junction where this happened.
1589624;1482521778;asciilifeform;and if any two descendants pick variant paths, they create that many paths again ~squared~, and so on.
1589625;1482521787;asciilifeform;it begins to resemble the popular picture of time travel.
1589626;1482521803;asciilifeform;which imho is a terrible place to end up in voluntarily.
1589627;1482521875;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589605
1589628;1482521875;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 19:26 mircea_popescu: there's multiple approaches available. a) each patch nails down the whole list of direct antecedents, so it'd be 3 in this case ; b) each patch signer picks an arbitrary antecedent to reference of the list (of here - 3), others are free to "fork" it by picking a different one or w/e.
1589629;1482521901;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if (b) is available, it becomes again possible to close cycles.
1589630;1482521915;asciilifeform;if you want to absolutely ban cycles, mechanistically, you are stuck with (a)
1589631;1482521919;asciilifeform;(full paths)
1589632;1482521924;mircea_popescu;yes, but this time a clock is no longer necessary for the beheadings.
1589633;1482521932;asciilifeform;how not ?
1589634;1482521948;asciilifeform;two d00dz simultaneously (as far as we know) shoot out (b)s that make cycle.
1589635;1482521954;asciilifeform;which one to behead ?
1589636;1482521983;mircea_popescu;"how not" is not really a good question ; an example suffices.
1589637;1482521999;mircea_popescu;anyway - so you list all 3 if there's 3. fine. why does this make convergence impossible ?
1589638;1482522026;asciilifeform;draw for me the converger plox
1589639;1482522068;mircea_popescu;maybe we're not talking of the same thing, but isn't the very patch in question, with its 3 references, a converger ?
1589640;1482522073;asciilifeform;say 'a' and 'b', after futile period of divergence, have decided to produce a common offspring 'c'. what does c look like ?
1589641;1482522098;mircea_popescu;c looks like #ref a #ref b sometext
1589642;1482522109;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: with your algo, 'a' cannot produce the same thing as 'b', because their immediate antecedents were different.
1589643;1482522114;asciilifeform;and there is no way to erase this fact.
1589644;1482522131;mircea_popescu;but this does not prevent c from calling both of them, does it ?
1589645;1482522145;asciilifeform;c cannot call both, because conflict
1589646;1482522150;asciilifeform;(a and b are conflictors)
1589647;1482522155;mircea_popescu;much like currently   mod6's latest, the makefiles patch. takes 'mod6_der_high_low_s' , 'malleus_mikehearnificarum', and 'asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected' .
1589648;1482522185;asciilifeform;we do not have any merged-conflictors on that graph, universe is not yet old enough for this headache to have occurred naturally
1589649;1482522185;mircea_popescu;if a and b are conflictors then the resolution of their differences will be in either a or b tree ; importing code from either b or a respectively to satisfy ; and the other branch may die.
1589650;1482522215;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so this makes it a uniquely poor example, seeing how it will conceivably sink the extant scheme.
1589651;1482522223;asciilifeform;it does not.
1589652;1482522231;asciilifeform;because in the extant scheme, 'a == a'.
1589653;1482522250;asciilifeform;you are permitted to go to the same place via 2+ paths, because the graph is mandatorily acyclic and directional.
1589654;1482522268;mircea_popescu;but in practice, should prb decide to come to sanity, the only avenue open to them is to... try and get their patches on the v tree.
1589655;1482522279;asciilifeform;and we take out flamethrower
1589656;1482522280;asciilifeform;and cook'em
1589657;1482522283;asciilifeform;problem ?
1589658;1482522284;mircea_popescu;conflicts aren't liable to be resolvable in general other than through the above described avenue
1589659;1482522303;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was discussinfg an imaginary case where "resolution" actually means what it says.
1589660;1482522310;asciilifeform;i do not see this hypothetical world, where it is unclear who is who.
1589661;1482522324;asciilifeform;it is the devil from earlier thread, it can only happen if we are all retarded to begin with.
1589662;1482522412;asciilifeform;orthogonally, but also quite painfully, not having 'a == a' also means that 'power rangers' can make new paths and claim credit for the works of others, and there will be NO mechanical means for a n00b to determine that this was done, other than to explore the exploding phase space.
1589663;1482522420;asciilifeform;(which will grow exponentially)
1589664;1482522460;asciilifeform;exponential growth of bitwise-identical entities is making my bowel churn just to think of it.
1589665;1482522678;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu signs 'τῶν γὰρ φύσει συνεστώτων τὰ μέν ἐστι ...', he does not also sign his copy of aristotle, and after that, the publisher's original manuscript, and with it, the medieval copy, and with that, the arab copy, and with that, .... plus the book from which he learned greek, and its manuscript...
1589666;1482522827;asciilifeform;if i had any reason to think that turning v tree into a forest of vertical stakes , exponentially crowded with IDENTICAL payloads that cannot be machine-compared , would make it easier to tell friend from foe and wisdom from folly -- i would agree with mircea_popescu's algo. but i do not.
1589667;1482522845;asciilifeform;it makes it considerably harder. and, past a certain point, quite impossible.
1589668;1482522987;asciilifeform;the proposal imho belongs with thomas edison's concrete furniture.
1589669;1482522999;asciilifeform;great idea, from one pov, terrible from just about every other.
1589670;1482523071;asciilifeform;http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/12/flight-cancelled-after-moron-names-wi-fi-network-galaxy-note-7 << in unrelated lulz.
1589671;1482523092;asciilifeform;'“This isn’t a joke,” said the captain, according to passenger Lucas Wojciechowski. “We’re going to turn on the lights and search everyone’s bag until we find it” ... “Ladies and gentlemen, we found the device,” said the captain. “Luckily only the name of the device was changed to ‘Galaxy Note 7'. It was not a GN7.”'
1589672;1482523151;*;asciilifeform pictures, what if it had been an esp8266 in a bar of soap ? up an arse ?
1589673;1482523344;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in general this "make new path and claim the work of others" is always available. i can make new path and claim the work of everyone right now, what's to stop me.
1589674;1482523354;asciilifeform;the fact that we have ordering.
1589675;1482523368;mircea_popescu;huh ? i can just make a new patch off genesis.
1589676;1482523405;asciilifeform;you can, but it will be readily apparent to be a later work than the earlier that you will presumably be 'filing the serial numbers off'
1589677;1482523414;mircea_popescu;how would it be apparent ?
1589678;1482523444;mircea_popescu;suppose i make an bitcoin.mp.1 which is like bitcoin.asciilifeform.1 except it includes #alf stole my girlfriend!
1589679;1482523455;mircea_popescu;and just move the whole tree over there, and claim i made it. what stops me ?
1589680;1482523471;asciilifeform;well yes. mircea_popescu used to teach, right ? how did he determine which idiot cribbed off which other idiot on exam
1589681;1482523473;asciilifeform;or term paper.
1589682;1482523477;asciilifeform;in practice it is never difficult.
1589683;1482523492;mircea_popescu;so then the same thing here as there ; this attribution issue is not useful to distinguish between the two methods.
1589684;1482523524;mircea_popescu;it's also not clear whence this idea of "recursive signing" comes from but anyway.
1589685;1482523632;mircea_popescu;i don;'t get it, wtf is the problem with the string "Galaxy note" whatever.
1589686;1482523650;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: infamously flammable (recalled) pNoje
1589687;1482523659;mircea_popescu;oh
1589688;1482523660;asciilifeform;iirc battery thermistor.
1589689;1482523667;mircea_popescu;heh mkay
1589690;1482523698;asciilifeform;i went on airplane in october and there were signs hanging of 'if you have this-here, put it in this fireproof rubbish bin before boarding, or go home'
1589691;1482523740;asciilifeform;one possible theory is that crapple drummed up the hysteria, their headphonejackless marvel was due for release that week iirc.
1589692;1482524058;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589086 << reminds me of the (legendary) airplane that flew orthodox icon around moscow N times to ward off german encirclement
1589693;1482524058;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 12:50 mircea_popescu: in further news nobody cares about, "4 million letters of 'empathy, support' dropped on Mosul". this thing, which was a) going to be a war that b) was going to take two weeks twelve weeks ago (and then a month, and then two, and here we are) has now degenerated in a fucking spam offensive.
1589694;1482524083;asciilifeform;(quite likely a pious fraud of 'let's bring back the church' idiot '90s)
1589695;1482524102;mircea_popescu;nobody could possibly resist the power of modern democracy embeded in its ultimate representation, the unsolicited mailing.
1589696;1482524140;asciilifeform;even in piddling civilian postbox i get aaaaalmost enough crapolade to stoke a furnace with.
1589697;1482524159;mircea_popescu;pretty sure it's carefully constructed to be poisonous if burned.
1589698;1482524164;asciilifeform;quite so!
1589699;1482524167;asciilifeform;or i ~would~ burn it
1589700;1482524173;asciilifeform;and so would everybody.
1589701;1482524186;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589092 << most likely is that they followed the contours of the existing auto
1589702;1482524186;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 12:55 mircea_popescu: anyway alf will prolly appreciate : https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/photo_2016-12-22_07-09-311.jpg
1589703;1482524193;mircea_popescu;the modern democracy gotta make items that can not be useful ; and ONLY items that can not be useful.
1589704;1482524203;asciilifeform;very carefully designed 'antifeatures', aha
1589705;1482524207;asciilifeform;recall 'cuecat' ?
1589706;1482524212;mircea_popescu;notrly "?
1589707;1482524216;asciilifeform;!#s cuecat
1589708;1482524217;a111;11 results for "cuecat", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cuecat
1589709;1482524238;asciilifeform;it was a toy given out as advertising gimmick
1589710;1482524253;asciilifeform;that someone found a method of converting into (at the time, rare) barcode reader. and was sued for his trouble
1589711;1482524273;mircea_popescu;ah
1589712;1482524290;asciilifeform;'consent bit'
1589713;1482524408;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589102 << it is, perhaps surprisingly, still better to be the general. he does not have to live in a 1room sv flat that costs 95% of that 18k.
1589714;1482524408;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 13:08 mircea_popescu just checked, o-9 pay grade is from 14.5k to 18k A MONTH. it is literally a better deal to be an entry level sysadmin working in pasadena than a lieutenant-general working in baghdad.
1589715;1482524443;asciilifeform;(incidentally a general who steps anywhere near the battlefield, gets hazard bonus, tax-free-enablement, and several other additions to pay)
1589716;1482524459;mircea_popescu;sure, as in any socialist totalitarian state, it is better to not even care about the worthless money ; and try and achieve positions of power in the necessary feudal structure.
1589717;1482524467;mircea_popescu;which is why atf agents stole bitcoin ; not usd.
1589718;1482524519;asciilifeform;just about every literate young d00d in usa has at one point or another turned down (or accepted, and lived to regret) 200+k usd in sv
1589719;1482524547;asciilifeform;because it is 'fairy gold'
1589720;1482524555;asciilifeform;evaporates.
1589721;1482527424;mod6;<+asciilifeform> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/F4SWa/?raw=true << another example of convergence << interesting.
1589722;1482528477;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/Q0e9f << and another example of reddit delusions not being confined to ethereum and shillary. apparently these poor kids are making up their own non-existent 90s movies now.
1589723;1482528780;pete_dushenski;!~ticker --market all --currency rmb
1589724;1482528787;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 6440.72, vol: 3095817.08510000 | Volume-weighted last average: 6440.72
1589725;1482529604;mats;where do i sign up for this sysadmin job in pasadena than pays more than 200k usd
1589726;1482530651;asciilifeform;mats: not literally sysadmin, you gotta be skilled labour, but nearly.
1589727;1482533207;phf;back during iraq war the salaries for ~sysadmins~ were way above what you could get on the market (i remember looking at listings and vaguely contemplating doing it because it ~looked~ like fun), i.e. 100-150k for 6 month of deployment. i think now because of vc money it has switched.
1589728;1482533217;asciilifeform;phf: tax-free, too.
1589729;1482533224;asciilifeform;and 100k reenlistment bonus.
1589730;1482533236;asciilifeform;i actually applied
1589731;1482533253;asciilifeform;(rejected, 'position requires prior military experience, sorry we forgot to state in ad')
1589732;1482533281;phf;you get to work from those Sun shipping containers, it was all very gibson bigend trilogy
1589733;1482533314;asciilifeform;i did meet a d00d who ~did~ get the job, turns out those containers ain't bulletproof, whod'vethunkit.
1589734;1482533335;phf;that's sort of part of the deal
1589735;1482533355;asciilifeform;it surprised ~him~, not me...
1589736;1482533393;asciilifeform;the sysadmin d00d in benghazi, i am told , was also quite surprised in his last 5min of life.
1589737;1482533404;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski hey, they're on the path of recreating a post-enlightenment history in which females actually matter, what's a movie compared.
1589738;1482533412;asciilifeform;(unlike the iraq folx he wasn't getting tax-free double pay afaik)
1589739;1482533499;phf;so it goes
1589740;1482533514;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform bulletproof is extremely expensive logistically.
1589741;1482533519;asciilifeform;noshit.jpg
1589742;1482533527;*;mircea_popescu had bulletproof car, cost ~3.5x what same exact car make and everything cost.
1589743;1482533529;asciilifeform;cheaper to get 10 spare sysops.
1589744;1482533536;mircea_popescu;you can't even hoist it, it's like 7.5 tons
1589745;1482533559;asciilifeform;aha, i rode in such a car, was crudely made, i could see why it weighs.
1589746;1482533575;asciilifeform;you hoist it on the same hoist used for bus, garbage truck.
1589747;1482533575;mircea_popescu;in bulletproofing there's really no substitute for mass.
1589748;1482533595;mircea_popescu;the reason is that same old mc^2 ; there's no better heat dampener than water nor better energy dampener than mass.
1589749;1482533600;asciilifeform;(obummer's obummermobile was so laden with armour that the british could not fix it, this was a scandal a few yrs back)
1589750;1482533633;asciilifeform;civilian armoured vehicle is still a joke because it has windows
1589751;1482533636;asciilifeform;ever see tank with windows ?
1589752;1482533642;asciilifeform;dun matter what you make them from.
1589753;1482533648;mircea_popescu;nah, bulletproof glass is a thing.
1589754;1482533651;asciilifeform;bullet - yes
1589755;1482533653;asciilifeform;rpg - no.
1589756;1482533668;mircea_popescu;bulletproof is bulletproof not flamethrowerproof.
1589757;1482533685;asciilifeform;also there is bullet and then there is bullet. you can get sabot rounds for ordinary '12' shotgun.
1589758;1482533691;asciilifeform;but mircea_popescu probably knew this.
1589759;1482533693;mircea_popescu;still won't go.
1589760;1482533718;asciilifeform;let's ask BingoBoingo to try it in his back yard and post photo, how about.
1589761;1482533733;asciilifeform;i'll pitch in to cover cost.
1589762;1482533736;mircea_popescu;the thing with it is it's layered, no matter the impact energy you get refraction because of the medium variance.
1589763;1482533758;asciilifeform;any good armour uses this effect, yes
1589764;1482533779;mircea_popescu;so no, sabot or no sabot you're not shooting through the (tiny ass btw) windows.
1589765;1482533796;asciilifeform;if you can pound a tungsten carbide nail through something, you can also shoot it.
1589766;1482533807;asciilifeform;just takes moar v.
1589767;1482533840;mircea_popescu;you can jump into a pool ; but if you go fast enough it's concrete not water. same thing with shooting - adding speed does not actually help. even if you can drill it.
1589768;1482533865;phf;hence knife and bullet vests are two different beasts
1589769;1482533882;mircea_popescu;aha.
1589770;1482533913;mircea_popescu;in fact the most dangeroius rounds aren't the outer (ie, very fast) but the inner (ie, just slow enough to spall the shit out of you)
1589771;1482533926;mircea_popescu;the very energetic rounds just ricochet.
1589772;1482533943;asciilifeform;i'd seriously like to see what happens with, say, the lexan window, vs 'lahti' antitank round from ww2
1589773;1482533960;asciilifeform;(afaik american vendors of lexan armour only warranty up to 12.7mm)
1589774;1482533976;jurov;lexan??? iirc sapphire is used
1589775;1482533991;asciilifeform;jurov: only in golden atomic dirigibles
1589776;1482534048;mircea_popescu;aluminium oxynitrite ftw.
1589777;1482534061;mircea_popescu;anyway, usually it's glass laminate / policarbonate in layers.
1589778;1482534085;mircea_popescu;good for up to 10-15kJ
1589779;1482534130;asciilifeform;sounds expensive. probably cheaper to put steel armour, and camera on one side, plasma tv on other !
1589780;1482534142;asciilifeform;(why does tank need side windows anyway)
1589781;1482534157;mircea_popescu;well the cheapest thing is to not use one in the first place
1589782;1482534159;mircea_popescu;fucking death trap.
1589783;1482534167;mircea_popescu;use the subway like normal people.
1589784;1482534179;asciilifeform;but if you gotta 'ride a tank, hold a general's rank, while blitzkrig raged and the bodies stank'
1589785;1482534877;asciilifeform;btw i wonder what a 100kw laser, of the right wavelength naturally, would feel like to the occupant of the windowed tank.
1589786;1482534977;asciilifeform;(alternatively, of the 'wrong' wavelength, soften the ceramic a bit, then shoot with ordinary lahti)
1589787;1482535053;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, https://archive.is/vsISw
1589788;1482535446;asciilifeform;iirc turks giving helping hand to the kurd-control exterminator crews is old noose..?
1589789;1482535484;mircea_popescu;teh hot week starts ~tomorrow.
1589790;1482535496;asciilifeform;wai so hot
1589791;1482535529;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585980
1589792;1482535529;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 18:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr
1589793;1482535558;asciilifeform;iirc only thing out of mr p publicly thus far is 'was provocation'
1589794;1482535568;mircea_popescu;sure.
1589795;1482535601;mircea_popescu;o look, trump wants dm friedman as israel ambassador.
1589796;1482535605;phf;dindu notin
1589797;1482535605;asciilifeform;whossat
1589798;1482535655;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform trumps bankruptcy laywer.
1589799;1482535679;asciilifeform;'Friedman, who specializes in litigation and bankruptcy law, was a key adviser to the incoming Republican president on US-Israel affairs during the presidential campaign.'
1589800;1482535679;asciilifeform;aah
1589801;1482535725;mircea_popescu;!~google friedman j street
1589802;1482535726;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: In Attacking David Friedman , J Street Condemns Itself - Breitbart: <http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2016/12/20/attacking-david-friedman-j-street-condemns/>; J Street Tries to Raise Money off David Friedman Nomination: <http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/16/david-friedman-j-street-tries-raise-money/>; J Street Vehemently Opposes Nomination of David Friedman as US ...: (1 more message)
1589803;1482535729;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/fKaEI << in other lelz
1589804;1482535736;asciilifeform;'In light of the rise of fake news on social media, the German Interior Ministry has proposed the creation of a "Center of Defense Against Disinformation," according to a report on Friday from the German news magazine "Der Spiegel."'
1589805;1482535774;mircea_popescu;it's not just that the guy's ~not~ part of embassy usg. it's that he's a) pissed publicly on the very faces of the kids of the helicopter moms that make up embassy usg and b) is independently wealthy / intelligent enough to not give the slightest shit about them and their wine parties.
1589806;1482535804;phf;i'd make a "my lawyer's jewish, i know, i'll make im speak to all other jews" joke, but so far trump's appointments that i heard have been very competent :o
1589807;1482535890;phf;seems like the pattern with all the appointments. "competent. has strong animosity towards whatever bureaucratic apparatus he's going to be head of."
1589808;1482535892;asciilifeform;'Intelligence agencies and politicians in Germany are hoping to prevent a similar scenario next fall for the Bundestag elections. Some politicians in Germany have also proposed laws against the production and distribution of fake news.'
1589809;1482535902;asciilifeform;ohnoez, unpermissioned nyooz.
1589810;1482535911;mircea_popescu;phf pretty reasonable approach at that.
1589811;1482535924;mircea_popescu;best way to handle bureaucracy is to force it to spend its time handling itself.
1589812;1482535957;asciilifeform;the one thing i don't quite grasp is why a heavy calibre d00d like the one described, would take the job of ambassador
1589813;1482535970;asciilifeform;is, e.g., mircea_popescu , burning with desire to work as american ambassador ?
1589814;1482535978;mircea_popescu;he already has a house there. most of these are appointments of convenience, like making serial rapist head of rape dept.
1589815;1482535983;asciilifeform;aah.
1589816;1482535988;asciilifeform;then makes sense.
1589817;1482536009;mircea_popescu;(laugh but this happened - TWICE. both national socialism and leninist socialism did this.)
1589818;1482536059;phf;"that was some good shooting for the revolution there. hey you're good at shooting people. you're now the head of my shooting department"
1589819;1482536072;asciilifeform;!#s amtorg
1589820;1482536072;a111;0 results for "amtorg", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=amtorg
1589821;1482536074;asciilifeform;hm.
1589822;1482536126;mircea_popescu;the most amusing jewish joke in all this - lo, trump MADE A GOOD JEWISH JOEK. this is infinitely harder than the supposed "witty self-deprecation" imbeciles gathering in new york think funny
1589823;1482536136;mircea_popescu;is "hey, israel is bankrupt, iam send halps."
1589824;1482537069;mircea_popescu;also updated http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ a little.
1589825;1482537187;asciilifeform;neato -- 'write a vtron!'
1589826;1482537269;mircea_popescu;aha.
1589827;1482537349;asciilifeform;like 'make telescope!' in 1700s, yes.
1589828;1482537365;mircea_popescu;table stakes keep increasing ; but the good news is they also keep diversifying.
1589829;1482538883;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p ... has joined #trilema ... * gabriel_laddel_p has quit (Client Quit) << d00d lost his SECOND key, lemme guess..?
1589830;1482539007;mircea_popescu;maybe power outage.
1589831;1482539033;asciilifeform;or rat gnawed his cable.
1589832;1482539039;asciilifeform;i dun even want to picture how the d00d lives.
1589833;1482539100;mircea_popescu;eh, talk to young women more, you'll get acclimated.
1589834;1482539567;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589133 << to my grief, i went and looked this up.
1589835;1482539567;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 14:01 mircea_popescu: (we'll skip over the entire "waka" incident for the sake of public morals.)
1589836;1482539578;asciilifeform;'can't unsee!1111'
1589837;1482539787;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu:  http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589135 << describe plox in slightly more detail : 1) what means 'known good' 2) what means 'same variables'
1589838;1482539787;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 14:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
1589839;1482539816;asciilifeform;(same ~number~ of variables ? )
1589840;1482539851;mircea_popescu;1) you can have a list of equations that do have solutions ; 2) that if your list only contains X Y and Z unknowns, then the arbitrary item won't contain Q unknown
1589841;1482539887;asciilifeform;they ~individually~ have solutions, or list is a system ?
1589842;1482539936;mircea_popescu;individually. like the list could be x^2 = 4 ; x = 1 ; x ^ 3 + 5 = 6 - in which case your arbitrary equation may be a polynomial in x but not in x y
1589843;1482539958;asciilifeform;then i must say, if i knew the answer, all of the keys on phuctor would be marked 'phucked'
1589844;1482539977;mircea_popescu;o ?
1589845;1482539977;asciilifeform;having tall pile of these does not, via any known method, help.
1589846;1482539989;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> if you can pound a tungsten carbide nail through something, you can also shoot it. << Why not shoot drill bit, already rifled!
1589847;1482540017;*;asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo's carpentry shop cum rifle range
1589848;1482540030;asciilifeform;in all fairness that is what 'gyrojet' did
1589849;1482540036;asciilifeform;... fired 'drill bit'.
1589850;1482540048;asciilifeform;!#s gyrojet
1589851;1482540049;a111;22 results for "gyrojet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gyrojet
1589852;1482540088;asciilifeform;and iirc even ordinary no-name gunshop in usa has 'rifled slug' for 12ga.
1589853;1482540109;asciilifeform;same principle.
1589854;1482540111;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, it's why it's a problem.
1589855;1482540187;asciilifeform;it is not a very promising problem as-stated imho. sorta like 'my pet mouse died, i want to resurrect it, i have this here industrial vivarium full of 10,001 live mice, how do i use them'
1589856;1482540435;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: see also hilbert's 10th.
1589857;1482540671;asciilifeform;in other lulz, FUCKGOATS www is getting regular hits from places such as honduras, panama, etc. via search-engine referrer. and i am beginning to suspect that these folx were looking for material concerning the fucking of ordinary goats.
1589858;1482540687;asciilifeform;i can only imagine their disappointment.
1589859;1482540720;shinohai;top kek asciilifeform
1589860;1482540855;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's exactly that, restated to discourage googling. the point being that it is difficult to correctly set the limits of recursion's utility intuitively
1589861;1482540870;mircea_popescu;ie, that it ~feels~ like the problem should have a recursive solution.
1589862;1482540929;asciilifeform;hilbert's 10th met disappointing end long enough ago that nobody needs to google
1589863;1482540950;asciilifeform;but yes, as a student it also 'felt like must have recursive solution'.
1589864;1482540953;asciilifeform;fwiw.
1589865;1482540989;mircea_popescu;(it was proven sometime recently omdeed diophantine sets is ~ recursively ennumerable sets, making this a semidecidable problem)
1589866;1482541002;asciilifeform;that being said, there are good methods for certain special cases, if mircea_popescu's diophantines are of a particular ~kind~ i might be able to hit up my dead trees for an algo.
1589867;1482541033;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the whole thing was "extension of discussion of basic logic to set theory for the eager minds"
1589868;1482541047;asciilifeform;somehow i was certain this was provoked by some alchemical problem in eulora
1589869;1482541071;mircea_popescu;nah, it's just to my mind the next logical step after wtf are null sets anyway.
1589870;1482541156;asciilifeform;recall that you can express turing tape as diophantine eq.
1589871;1482541162;mircea_popescu;aha.
1589872;1482541163;asciilifeform;so if you had a generic pill...
1589873;1482541173;asciilifeform;ergo none.
1589874;1482541201;mircea_popescu;the general point being, that the mind is not particularly adept to ~counting sets~ (including and especially in the sense of "Evaluating complexity") which is why it's very easy for it to misjudge the reach and power of recursive methods.
1589875;1482541237;asciilifeform;mind is a slippery thing. what curious boy was not convinced that he was 'this-close' to elementary proof of fermat's.
1589876;1482541243;asciilifeform;or similar unicorn.
1589877;1482541257;mircea_popescu;quite.
1589878;1482541311;mircea_popescu;anyway, practice of programming, especially in a reasonably clean environment, possesses one of a notion of recursion that is then a fertile ground for mathematical scamming.
1589879;1482541326;asciilifeform;incidentally, since (to borrow the lament of turing's school headmaster) 'the room already stinks of mathematics', i'll share a tidbit that i promised folx some half year ago and promptly forgot:
1589880;1482541340;mircea_popescu;the diophantine approach above + the "transfinite induction" / von neumann set are pretty much the scylla and charybdis of this sea.
1589881;1482541405;asciilifeform;picture the following 1-dimensional automaton, that eats bitstring in sets of 2bits, and : '10' -> 'tape step left' ; '01' -> 'tape step right' ; '11' -> invert bit at current square; '00' -> terminate.
1589882;1482541428;asciilifeform;it is immediately obvious that this (nonturingcomplete) automaton can be used to 'write' any integer
1589883;1482541449;asciilifeform;however it is also impossible to know in less time than O(N) ~which~ integer
1589884;1482541462;asciilifeform;this is the ideal rsa padding scheme that folx asked for.
1589885;1482541467;mircea_popescu;hm
1589886;1482541495;asciilifeform;i will give one elementary algo for using this, here, but there are others.
1589887;1482541535;mircea_popescu;so wait, the plan is a) make integer ; b) convert to automaton tape ; c) use that tape as padding ?
1589888;1482541535;asciilifeform;take the bitstring to be 'padded' (that is, mixed with entropy in such a way that it destroys enemy's ability to know any part of the structure of a plaintext inside ciphertext.)
1589889;1482541578;asciilifeform;then you produce some sequence of random moves for this machine, nondestructively (recall, all operations are invertible) waltzing over it.
1589890;1482541641;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform would this be better if tape were circular and of size to match our blocks ?
1589891;1482541661;asciilifeform;then you append a sequence of ops , e.g., '10a10b10c10d.....' for the desired a,b,c,d... that flips the mutilated bits to the desired final state.
1589892;1482541676;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the tape size cannot be known to decoder in advance
1589893;1482541688;asciilifeform;or he gets knowledge he is not supposed to have.
1589894;1482541706;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1589895;1482541707;asciilifeform;(the output tape size, that is. he of course knows the input tape size.)
1589896;1482541711;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 913.77, vol: 16658.65410701 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 894.999, vol: 11044.32694 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 915.3, vol: 25751.76340946 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 943.5888, vol: 3223688.07100000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 918.0, vol: 4157.60534408 | Volume-weighted last average: 943.019435087
1589897;1482541788;asciilifeform;let's take a ~terrible~ padding scheme just to show to n00bz what this whole matter is about.
1589898;1482541817;mircea_popescu;if the message is n long, does the pad-machine tape need to be n^2 ?
1589899;1482541823;asciilifeform;say i want to encipher (dun matter with what) a string, 'To: mircea_popescu Subj: thermonuke launch codes ...'
1589900;1482541831;asciilifeform;and enemy knows that i always begin letter with 'To:'
1589901;1482541880;asciilifeform;so one ~horrid~ padding algo would be to get a bitstring from my rng, xor the message to it, then send a message of 2x length of original consisting of: [the bitstring from rng][the result of the xor]
1589902;1482541899;asciilifeform;this is superficially structure-destroying , either one of the two halves could literally be ANY bitstring of that length
1589903;1482541956;asciilifeform;BUT enemy knows that plaintext(first_half[0]) ^ plaintext(second_half[0]) == 'T'
1589904;1482541958;asciilifeform;which is nogood.
1589905;1482541978;asciilifeform;we did not destroy the structure, only made a (slightly) more complicated one.
1589906;1482541988;asciilifeform;[end of n00bz segment]
1589907;1482542000;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it can in principle be as short as 3n
1589908;1482542003;asciilifeform;as example,
1589909;1482542034;mircea_popescu;but the space gets pretty narrow. 3n, you shoot n^(1/2) messages you're suddenly losing
1589910;1482542038;asciilifeform;100101 turns into 111010111010101100.
1589911;1482542055;asciilifeform;which of course you don't want, it is quite obvious that there is no entropy in there if it only got 3x longer.
1589912;1482542061;asciilifeform;(the theoretical lower limit.)
1589913;1482542096;mircea_popescu;this definitely bears some thinking.
1589914;1482542127;asciilifeform;the useful envelope of operation comes when you have at least ~16x the bottom limit.
1589915;1482542127;mod6;<+asciilifeform> i can only imagine their disappointment. << lol
1589916;1482542181;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform let me ask you this : suppose the tape is byte-sized, and the 8 bits are as follows : 2 bits x movement ; 2 bits y movement ; 2 bits z movement ; stop and flip bits for a total of 8. the tape is now a space.
1589917;1482542184;mircea_popescu;is this worse or better ?
1589918;1482542221;asciilifeform;very similar, and actually i began with that variant.
1589919;1482542237;asciilifeform;it works out to same thing.
1589920;1482542259;asciilifeform;the problem is that you have to derive a bounding box when you're done and want to turn the playing field into a bitstring for use wherever
1589921;1482542269;mircea_popescu;to my mind the only reason to have 1d is if you're going to try and emulate block cyphers ie make it fixed size.
1589922;1482542270;asciilifeform;and it costs slightly more in 2d
1589923;1482542272;mircea_popescu;otherwise why not space.
1589924;1482542280;asciilifeform;in the end you're trying to end up with a bitstring
1589925;1482542290;mircea_popescu;ah thereis that.
1589926;1482542329;asciilifeform;now i have not proved whether 2d gives you more sensitivity to mis-guessed bit .
1589927;1482542331;asciilifeform;than 1d.
1589928;1482542342;asciilifeform;if it does - then the cost is worth it.
1589929;1482542357;asciilifeform;(recall, you want a maximally fragile string. it is quite the opposite of error-correction codes.)
1589930;1482542372;asciilifeform;that's what 'padding' (terrible misnomer) is. the opposite of errorcode.
1589931;1482542420;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what if i use the following scheme : message padded + 60 bytes of padding key + 4 bytes of iteration count. the tape is producing by doing sha recursively on the padding key and its results iteration count times.
1589932;1482542442;asciilifeform;btw i scoured the l0gz in vain for entire hour, looking for where i promised this, and cannot find.
1589933;1482542449;asciilifeform;if anyone remembers - plz post link !!
1589934;1482542487;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: pretty much all of the extant schemes resolve to some variant of that. the problem is that ~all~ of them introduce structure
1589935;1482542497;asciilifeform;(and i am leaving aside the fact that the use of sha may well introduce structure.)
1589936;1482542505;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but that's my question, the above is actually what rsa currently uses.
1589937;1482542512;asciilifeform;'rsa' per se uses nothing.
1589938;1482542515;mircea_popescu;gpg.
1589939;1482542524;asciilifeform;gpg used the weakest known padding scheme iirc.
1589940;1482542537;mircea_popescu;it seems to me you can ~actuyally implement~ extant padding schemes in this automaton.
1589941;1482542541;asciilifeform;'pkcs'
1589942;1482542588;mircea_popescu;!~google pkcs #14
1589943;1482542590;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: PKCS - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS>; PKCS 12 - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS_12>; PKCS 11 - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS_11>
1589944;1482542593;asciilifeform;existing padding schemes are precisely what i would like to get away from. idea is to introduce maximal uncertainty re the identity or purpose of any particular bit of unknown plaintext, and max fragility.
1589945;1482542674;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: gpg used PKCS #1 v1.5 (see rfc4880)
1589946;1482542694;asciilifeform;all that does is to append a few random bytes to the payload.
1589947;1482542703;asciilifeform;homeopathy, really.
1589948;1482542806;asciilifeform;OAEP is slightly better from this pov but also gives you https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gcrypt-devel/2011-June/001797.html .
1589949;1482542809;mircea_popescu;the problem is it bloats the message to an incredible size ; which plays poorly with rsa's weakness (slow)
1589950;1482542868;asciilifeform;you can split the message.
1589951;1482542884;asciilifeform;it is only palpably slow if you insist on doing the entire thing in a gargantuan exponentiation.
1589952;1482542889;mircea_popescu;so then you're back to blocks and a round tape.
1589953;1482542925;asciilifeform;not necessarily, you have tape as long as you like and simply rsa it in chunks of (keylen/2)
1589954;1482542957;asciilifeform;btw tape cannot be round unless you carry its size inside the message, which is verboten because that would be STRUCTURE
1589955;1482542980;asciilifeform;alternatively you can fix it permanently, in advance.
1589956;1482542983;mircea_popescu;if your blocks are of known size, then they're of known size.
1589957;1482542986;mircea_popescu;right.
1589958;1482542993;asciilifeform;this -- works
1589959;1482543008;mircea_popescu;the whole discussion of blocks vs whole thing is all about this.
1589960;1482543018;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu and others can probably think of some useful and interesting variations on this scheme.
1589961;1482543020;mircea_popescu;and the tendency is to move towards whole thingers, hence eg the keccak preference
1589962;1482543106;asciilifeform;btw anyone who tries to dig in the 'official' literature re: crypto padding will barf his guts out, the subjects consists ~100% of obscurantist crapola by weight.
1589963;1482543125;asciilifeform;most of the 'solutions' do not even vaguely pretend to solve the problem, and in fact expertly avoid to say what the problem even might be.
1589964;1482543142;asciilifeform;it is hilarious to watch, from entomologist's chair.
1589965;1482543156;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i have no actual math to show, but intuitively it seems to me the above "take 64 bytes of rng, iterate hash over the first 60 last 4-times and then use that as tape to pad message, then put padded message + 64 bytes in question in rsatron" is practically useful and theoretically strong.
1589966;1482543195;mircea_popescu;other party just pads in reverse.
1589967;1482543233;asciilifeform;what's 'last 4 times'
1589968;1482543240;asciilifeform;i'm trying to write this as actual algo in my head
1589969;1482543247;mircea_popescu;let me do a simple example with very small numbers.
1589970;1482543251;asciilifeform;plz.
1589971;1482543274;mircea_popescu;message you want padded is T. i roll a random number, it comes out 1011101011 10
1589972;1482543298;mircea_popescu;i will now proceed to create a string S += hash(1011101011) three times.
1589973;1482543307;mircea_popescu;i will now use S as a tape for the automaton to be applied to T.
1589974;1482543315;mircea_popescu;this gives me T.p
1589975;1482543326;mircea_popescu;i concatenate T.p with 101110101110 and encrypt it
1589976;1482543350;mircea_popescu;i will now proceed to create a string S += hash(S+1011101011) three times. << i mean.
1589977;1482543353;asciilifeform;but why do you want to constrain the possible tapes thusly
1589978;1482543363;asciilifeform;why make them related to the payload.
1589979;1482543406;mircea_popescu;well, because this way T.p is slightly but not much longer than T.
1589980;1482543422;mircea_popescu;evidently this costs in strength.
1589981;1482543434;mircea_popescu;how much - i know not how to say.
1589982;1482543437;asciilifeform;costs you, under some entirely possible scenarios, all of the strength.
1589983;1482543449;mircea_popescu;give me one ?
1589984;1482543530;asciilifeform;say i discover that sha output is 'heavy' on 1s (in the von neumann coin sense) if the input was a sha output of a sha output of a string containing word 'nuke'. etc
1589985;1482543546;asciilifeform;this cannot be ruled out, because hash -- yes, all of them -- is voodoo.
1589986;1482543548;mircea_popescu;but you don't know how many passes of sha i make.
1589987;1482543574;asciilifeform;but i know that the number of passes is related to the payload.
1589988;1482543585;mircea_popescu;that you know.
1589989;1482543595;asciilifeform;fundamental problem here, is that the operation can be written as an equation
1589990;1482543607;asciilifeform;yes, it will be long, but of fixed length, and i can picture its structure
1589991;1482543615;mircea_popescu;this is true.
1589992;1482543621;asciilifeform;whereas an arbitrary tape is nonalgebraic.
1589993;1482543630;asciilifeform;sorta was whole point of this notion.
1589994;1482543632;mircea_popescu;this is also true. problem with it is that it's so damned long.
1589995;1482543637;asciilifeform;is to take away the algebraic relation.
1589996;1482543642;asciilifeform;that enemy luuuuvvvs so much.
1589997;1482543678;mircea_popescu;ok, let's go at it another insane way. suppose you pad the message by using... the message as the tape.
1589998;1482543728;asciilifeform;that won't even waltz over the whole message
1589999;1482543734;asciilifeform;considering that 1 step of the crank eats 2 bits.
1590000;1482543857;asciilifeform;the added entropy has to be ~genuine~ to do the job.
1590001;1482543862;asciilifeform;as in, it comes from a trng.
1590002;1482543889;mircea_popescu;suppose you actually use the payload itself sqrt(payloadsize) times.
1590003;1482543893;asciilifeform;and yes, you get elongated message. the job imho here is to show precisely how much elongation buys you ~exactly~ what strength.
1590004;1482543897;asciilifeform;as in, the cost.
1590005;1482543922;mircea_popescu;no, we're clear on the part where it's pretty expensive.
1590006;1482543951;mircea_popescu;the thing here however is, that incremental improvement may actually be useful. ie, a ~better~ encryption scheme, even if not ~provably the best~.
1590007;1482543969;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: all schemes where the transform is of 'payload itself' and 0 entropy, suffer from immediate 'penguin problem', https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/Tux_ecb.jpg .
1590008;1482543978;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1590009;1482543983;asciilifeform;as in, if i have a good idea as to what is the plaintext, i can verify my guess.
1590010;1482543992;asciilifeform;you gotta have the actual entropy.
1590011;1482544050;mircea_popescu;let's consider the case where i want to exchange a 1kb letter. i won't actually use 1mb to feed the tape, but i will use 4kb.
1590012;1482544092;mircea_popescu;i now have to a) generate 4kb of entropy (roughly enough for 8 4096bit rsa keys) ; b) complete 16k operations to pad ; c) execute a 5kb rsa exponentiation. so i'm looking at what, about an hour ?
1590013;1482544140;asciilifeform;possibly we no longer bottleneck on entropy gather ?
1590014;1482544150;asciilifeform;sorta was the point of FUCKGOATS.
1590015;1482544158;mircea_popescu;stock rsa makes 8 keys in like 2 hours.
1590016;1482544167;asciilifeform;depends on what.
1590017;1482544171;mircea_popescu;so no, i wasn't counting a) for more than a few mins.
1590018;1482544203;asciilifeform;4kB is about half a second of goat fuck. 4kb is 1/8 that.
1590019;1482544217;mircea_popescu;i mean 1kB throughout.
1590020;1482544270;asciilifeform;a 4096b exponentiation takes about 10msec on my (dusty, old) box here.
1590021;1482544295;asciilifeform;so mircea_popescu's exercise might add up to an entire ~minute~...
1590022;1482544311;mircea_popescu;this is not terribru.
1590023;1482544335;asciilifeform;cheap entropy makes several interesting things possible, this is only 1 of'em.
1590024;1482544379;mircea_popescu;a 5x size penalty for full strength encryption is not inconceivable either.
1590025;1482544404;asciilifeform;the beauty is that you can dial the strength up if you have a great deal of space and a short message .
1590026;1482544407;asciilifeform;sorta like keccak.
1590027;1482544424;mircea_popescu;yes. in principle you can also dial it down.
1590028;1482544455;asciilifeform;aha, the closer you go to the floor (3x length of input) , the lower.
1590029;1482544456;mircea_popescu;if you make the waltzer start from ~the end~ of the message, even sqrt(n) steps improves rsa enough.
1590030;1482544460;asciilifeform;(the fewer possible messages)
1590031;1482544475;asciilifeform;end, start, are topologically same
1590032;1482544485;asciilifeform;(a tape is just as likely to go left as right , if fed from rng )
1590033;1482544514;asciilifeform;btw you probably would want to mechanically ensure that every bit of the input got stepped on at least once.
1590034;1482544541;asciilifeform;(because there is a nonzero probability that the whole thing is left alone, for instance. or large segments thereof, more likely.)
1590035;1482544545;mircea_popescu;doesn't that introduce structure ?
1590036;1482544553;asciilifeform;it introduces length only.
1590037;1482544567;asciilifeform;sorta like 'hang by the neck until dead' spec.
1590038;1482544602;asciilifeform;at any rate it is not a concern if using circular tape.
1590039;1482544612;asciilifeform;there, you are stepping on the input regardless of where you go.
1590040;1482544639;mircea_popescu;you prolly want circular tape the size of message tbh.
1590041;1482544652;asciilifeform;the size of the largest permitted message, yes.
1590042;1482544665;asciilifeform;or rather, 3x+Q of it
1590043;1482544670;asciilifeform;Q being your added strength.
1590044;1482544671;mircea_popescu;there;s a largest permitted message ?!
1590045;1482544684;asciilifeform;you're stuck having such a thing if you have circular tape
1590046;1482544692;asciilifeform;because, again, you cannot say 'hey first 64bits are length'
1590047;1482544694;mircea_popescu;meh.
1590048;1482544706;asciilifeform;nobody keeps you from sending 1,001 messages.
1590049;1482544725;mircea_popescu;meh.
1590050;1482544728;asciilifeform;i will point out that if your privkey is n bits, you are already talking in n/2-sized chunks.
1590051;1482544770;asciilifeform;so now mircea_popescu sees why i wanted a noncircular tape -- then the enemy knows nothing about the ultimate length of the output
1590052;1482544777;mircea_popescu;another problem is the observation that 1011011011 is neutral.
1590053;1482544782;asciilifeform;because it is defined as simply the furthestmost '1' explored.
1590054;1482544786;mircea_popescu;and other strings are also just as neutral.
1590055;1482544804;asciilifeform;what means neutral here
1590056;1482544816;asciilifeform;as in, 0 net effect ?
1590057;1482544849;asciilifeform;it has a net effect in that it a) takes up space between non-'neutral' strings b) if enemy misguesses even 1 bit inside it, it becomes quite non-neutral, and cumulatively
1590058;1482544899;asciilifeform;whole point is to minimize the information conveyed to enemy by knowing about the, e.g., 'To: mircea_popescu' inside; and to maximize the consequences of a misguessed plaintext bit in a cryptoanalysis.
1590059;1482544949;asciilifeform;so, yes, e.g., '1010101001010101' does ~absolutely~ nothing to the waltz tape
1590060;1482544973;asciilifeform;but it takes up space, and if even 1 of the bits gets flipped (misguessed), you get an avalanche of rubbish.
1590061;1482545011;asciilifeform;btw the '00'--> stop thing is unnecessary and harmful, you stop when you run out of feed tape.
1590062;1482545021;mircea_popescu;myeah
1590063;1482545035;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E23ACB45163FCB09E94E5C734E0460A168FA05290C8C9FFA05F92571621F502 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1687...5687 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.220.143.10 (ssh-rsa key from 83.220.143.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1590064;1482545035;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/92A7E26365A4E78117B70413092A6D862BD142830399C4B355FCEEC0DC1EBDF7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1400...2083 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.72.98.119 (ssh-rsa key from 217.72.98.119 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (217-72-98-119.uni.it. IT)
1590065;1482545044;mircea_popescu;this prolly needs more thinking.
1590066;1482545060;asciilifeform;here is improved scheme : '10' -> 'step left', '01' --> step right, '11' -> flip current and step left; '00' -> flip current and step right.
1590067;1482545072;asciilifeform;this gives you entirely symmetric probabilities of motion in either direction;
1590068;1482545080;asciilifeform;and also entirely symmetric probabilities of flip/nonflip.
1590069;1482545102;mircea_popescu;this is an improvement.
1590070;1482545113;asciilifeform;say that the first bit of every tape pair means 'left or right', and the second 'flip or noflip.'
1590071;1482545127;asciilifeform;you can generalize for n-dimensions, as mircea_popescu suggested earlier, similarly.
1590072;1482545150;mircea_popescu;possibly 2d would be useful because eats full byte
1590073;1482545173;asciilifeform;1d also eats full byte, puts 4 ops in it.
1590074;1482545179;asciilifeform;but i presently have nfi which one wins.
1590075;1482545188;asciilifeform;seems like one could do a formal , sane proof.
1590076;1482545283;asciilifeform;'This has been a production of Rubbish From asciilifeform's Desk! No actual mathematicians were harmed...'
1590077;1482545290;asciilifeform;i'ma bbl, off to play with pet.
1590078;1482545909;mircea_popescu;http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/223991/%E2%80%98an-honest-conversation-is-scarier-than-sex%E2%80%99-for-millenials << in other lulz.
1590079;1482550367;BingoBoingo;Well, they don't know radical honesty is best served nekkid
1590080;1482550617;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E23ACB45163FCB09E94E5C734E0460A168FA05290C8C9FFA05F92571621F502 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1554...9267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.220.143.10 (ssh-rsa key from 83.220.143.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1590081;1482550617;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/92A7E26365A4E78117B70413092A6D862BD142830399C4B355FCEEC0DC1EBDF7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1386...2553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.72.98.119 (ssh-rsa key from 217.72.98.119 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (217-72-98-119.uni.it. IT)
1590082;1482553753;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590078 << holy FUCK the ugly beast
1590083;1482553753;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 02:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/223991/%E2%80%98an-honest-conversation-is-scarier-than-sex%E2%80%99-for-millenials << in other lulz.
1590084;1482554861;mircea_popescu;heh
1590085;1482556225;phf;^ http://data.whicdn.com/images/4863711/large.jpg
1590086;1482556260;mircea_popescu;if only.
1590087;1482584976;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FD162B31879C672C96D73E23BAB02B76FF039BA477742ACF9809A289FE396DFD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1653...6469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.23.231.50 (ssh-rsa key from 81.23.231.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown NL)
1590088;1482584976;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2603E5793CB991AA1E823AA9593E4B505D1B151FCA4968D98F5AB1A2C19EA342 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1619...1397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.39.102.163 (ssh-rsa key from 84.39.102.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lvps62-112-143-163.my-maxxserver.de. DE)
1590089;1482588372;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0ckjTgXEAQ03HX.jpg
1590090;1482588384;shinohai;^ heh cock
1590091;1482589048;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform thinking about it, the walker scheme doesn't seem too great. the theoretical objection is that it ~does~ introduce structure, through the convention that the walker moves from where it last moved. in practice though, run a few simulations over a 16bit message which you can then print as a 256x256 bitmap. your walker makes anthills basically.
1590092;1482589060;mircea_popescu;pretty wasteful use of entropy.
1590093;1482589268;mircea_popescu;ajhajajaja roger ver owns bitcoins ?
1590094;1482589289;mircea_popescu;good thing there's reddit. now that yahoo "finance" closed the public boards, where'd all the scum go.
1590095;1482589497;*;shinohai would love to see Ver successfully do Unlimited fork, lose all BTC on phorked side
1590096;1482589513;mircea_popescu;eh, guy last had any btc cca 2014.
1590097;1482589883;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes lol that leclerc dude is visiting your blog on a weekly basis ? 2, 9, then nobody gave a shit so he skipped 16 and i guess 23, we see him on the 30th ?
1590098;1482590395;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : http://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2015/08/24/meet-the-millennials-crowdfunding-their-college-tuition no longer exists. do you suppose this is because a) it turned out that no idiot millenials tried this or b) because the scamsites pretending to be offering a service involved complained to the usg dept of scamsites which then passed a hitler note to the usg dept of scamnews ?
1590099;1482590584;mircea_popescu;"we have always been at war with fake news such as any item that is politically inconvenient today."
1590100;1482592288;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590091 << didja try it? and, importantly, was it with a physical trng?? because noshit , ~prng~ will structurize ...
1590101;1482592288;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, the walker scheme doesn't seem too great. the theoretical objection is that it ~does~ introduce structure, through the convention that the walker moves from where it last moved. in practice though, run a few simulations over a 16bit message which you can then print as a 256x256 bitmap. your walker makes anthills basically.
1590102;1482592341;mircea_popescu;yes. a point n distance from origin has more chances of being walked over than a point 2n distance from origin by a factor of about 1.4
1590103;1482592389;asciilifeform;you naturally gotta run long enough for p(walked all many times) to ~= 1
1590104;1482592410;mircea_popescu;this resolves the part where "all have been walked" though not the part where there's structure intrinsic in the method.
1590105;1482592433;mircea_popescu;moreover, to be 99% sure 100% of 64kb were walked, you need millions of steps.
1590106;1482592470;asciilifeform;that, you do, i warned.
1590107;1482592490;mircea_popescu;specifically 256kb does not even remotely promise for 64kb to be walked. you get a third untouched more than half the time.
1590108;1482592513;asciilifeform;i estimated a 16 fold margin.
1590109;1482592521;mircea_popescu;it was 3 fold yest.
1590110;1482592529;asciilifeform;noooo
1590111;1482592534;mircea_popescu;the correct margin is N^2
1590112;1482592550;asciilifeform;3x was ~minimal inescapable bloat with no entropy~
1590113;1482592695;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589914 << there
1590114;1482592695;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 01:15 asciilifeform: the useful envelope of operation comes when you have at least ~16x the bottom limit.
1590115;1482592729;asciilifeform;but that was anally calculated. i have not tried with trng yet.
1590116;1482592812;asciilifeform;and yes, the cost is high. but i remain unconvinced that a better method exists.
1590117;1482592838;asciilifeform;i suspect that one could even prove that it cannot.
1590118;1482593186;mircea_popescu;"better" is not a mathematical concept.
1590119;1482593195;mircea_popescu;so no, one couldn't prove such.
1590120;1482593215;asciilifeform;there is a specific job involved
1590121;1482593226;asciilifeform;that is quantifiable
1590122;1482593496;asciilifeform;that was actually where i stopped last time. to properly and rigorously define the problem
1590123;1482593631;asciilifeform;informally stated , it is 'spread out k bits over j bits, j>k, such that the bitness of k that can be learned from knowing any 1 bit of j is minimized, and such that knowledge of a
1590124;1482593639;asciilifeform;all but one bit of j,
1590125;1482593659;asciilifeform;of k rather
1590126;1482593674;asciilifeform;gives NO knowledge of j.'
1590127;1482593764;asciilifeform;rivest wss afaik the first to ask for this. but he and afaik everybody since him, used hashes.
1590128;1482593781;asciilifeform;*was
1590129;1482594006;asciilifeform;i suspect that a good bit of crypto research was lobotomized by historic rng poverty.
1590130;1482594039;asciilifeform;(and not merely by the obvious lobotomist)
1590131;1482594426;mircea_popescu;this may well be true yes.
1590132;1482594821;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590098 << btw it is apparently back
1590133;1482594821;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 14:39 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : http://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2015/08/24/meet-the-millennials-crowdfunding-their-college-tuition no longer exists. do you suppose this is because a) it turned out that no idiot millenials tried this or b) because the scamsites pretending to be offering a service involved complained to the usg dept of scamsites which then passed a hitler note to the usg dept of scamnews ?
1590134;1482594893;asciilifeform;(link -- loads, has a turd by same title and stock photos of 'collegiate' crapolade, i did not read further )
1590135;1482595205;mircea_popescu;but yes, the statement is correct. to restate : 1. padding is defined as a function F (x, y) with x, y and F ∈ N such that 2. F is defined for all (x, y) pairs and that 3. given any set of boolean functions Ki(x) along with their values no Kj(y) can be constructed so their values are known besides K0(y) = true for K0(a) = 1 if a=y and 0 if a!=y and 4. given any set of boolean functions Ki(y) along with their values no Kj(x)
1590136;1482595205;mircea_popescu; can be constructed so their values are known besides K0(x) = true for K0(a) = 1 if a=x and 0 if a!=x.
1590137;1482595217;mircea_popescu;importantly - there is no need for the payload and the padding to be distinguishable.
1590138;1482595223;mircea_popescu;so the statement should be symmetrical.
1590139;1482595241;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's nice, it 404'd before!
1590140;1482595343;asciilifeform;it is an absolute fail for payload and padding to live in separate and known-to-enemy bitfields, yes
1590141;1482595361;mircea_popescu;more than that : there can't be conceptual difference between number x and number y.
1590142;1482595370;mircea_popescu;the padding pads the message just as the message pads the padding.
1590143;1482595380;asciilifeform;aha
1590144;1482595388;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/who-pops-the-largest-pop/ << Trilema - Who pops the largest pop ?
1590145;1482595447;asciilifeform;also betcha this problem could be reduced to shannon's noisy channel.
1590146;1482595511;mircea_popescu;hm
1590147;1482595514;asciilifeform;(it also has entirely separate component that is rivest's 'all or nothing transform')
1590148;1482595536;asciilifeform;i.e. problem is really two problems.
1590149;1482595564;mircea_popescu;anyway, i'm entirely not up to speed to this, but there actually exists this field in math, of "boolean function sets"
1590150;1482595591;mircea_popescu;they more or less udnerstand they're a formalisation of what the more numerate philosophers call the theory of knowledge.
1590151;1482595736;mircea_popescu;(the above boolean function K is an evident extension of the dericlet function ftr)
1590152;1482595761;mircea_popescu;dirichlet*
1590153;1482596876;mircea_popescu;!!up gabriel_laddel
1590154;1482596876;deedbot;gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
1590155;1482597070;gabriel_laddel;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589829 < I was in a coffee shop and it cut me from IRC, like most wifi networks around here do.
1590156;1482597070;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 00:21 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p ... has joined #trilema ... * gabriel_laddel_p has quit (Client Quit) << d00d lost his SECOND key, lemme guess..?
1590157;1482597107;gabriel_laddel;That being said, I'm trying to decrypt my OTP and "gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available".
1590158;1482597130;gabriel_laddel;Re-created (some of) dired in CL last night, perhaps I accidentally deleted it...
1590159;1482597132;gabriel_laddel;sigh
1590160;1482597178;gabriel_laddel;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589832 < blood is in the water, it's fun!
1590161;1482597178;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 00:23 asciilifeform: i dun even want to picture how the d00d lives.
1590162;1482597185;mircea_popescu;devwork must be pretty hectic with all this accidental deleting.
1590163;1482597265;gabriel_laddel;Something like that - was hacking out the gesture :control-meta-click in CLIM and was clicking around a lot with it bound to COM-DELETE-FILE
1590164;1482597279;gabriel_laddel;for some reason this required a restart of the application, which _should not be a thing_ in cl.
1590165;1482597302;asciilifeform;at least it wasn't COM-LAUNCH-ROCKETS..
1590166;1482597360;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel: how's the hardware biz?
1590167;1482597361;mircea_popescu;http://oglaf.com/obituator/
1590168;1482597444;gabriel_laddel;asciilifeform: I have talentless thiel fellows trying to lowball me at the moment, but expect that they'll pay up soon enough.
1590169;1482597458;gabriel_laddel;As I said: blood is in the water - it's fun.
1590170;1482597459;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FD162B31879C672C96D73E23BAB02B76FF039BA477742ACF9809A289FE396DFD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1459...6859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.23.231.50 (ssh-rsa key from 81.23.231.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown NL)
1590171;1482597459;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2603E5793CB991AA1E823AA9593E4B505D1B151FCA4968D98F5AB1A2C19EA342 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...5107 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.39.102.163 (ssh-rsa key from 84.39.102.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lvps62-112-143-163.my-maxxserver.de. DE)
1590172;1482597530;shinohai;lol @ oglaf
1590173;1482597605;gabriel_laddel;asciilifeform: are there glassblowing robots for custom labware yet?
1590174;1482597705;*;mircea_popescu is curious if the forum will prefer gabriel_laddel parked in sv start-up over gabriel_laddel parked in park.
1590175;1482597784;gabriel_laddel;mircea_popescu: I was working for a startup a while ago - but they released toxic fumes into the air without a fume hood, so I quit.
1590176;1482597794;mircea_popescu;you mean literally ?
1590177;1482597796;gabriel_laddel;mircea_popescu: what's on your mind?
1590178;1482597799;gabriel_laddel;mircea_popescu: yes.
1590179;1482597828;gabriel_laddel;I don't know what it is with the people here, but they're all fucking idiots.
1590180;1482597828;mircea_popescu;wow check that out, evne in cali
1590181;1482598040;gabriel_laddel;I left out the key part of that story - they released the fumes indoors, in a building the offices they were occupying.
1590182;1482598051;gabriel_laddel;*in a building connected to
1590183;1482598154;mircea_popescu;what fumes ?
1590184;1482598223;gabriel_laddel;Am not sure. Saw the synth running with broken fume hood, a cracked window and gtfo.
1590185;1482598275;mircea_popescu;what, like a peptide synth ?
1590186;1482598288;mircea_popescu;good lord, carcinogenics etc are quite possible.
1590187;1482598318;gabriel_laddel;I did sign an NDA, so I'm not going to get into the details of what exactly we were cooking. But yes, it was most certainly toxic.
1590188;1482598346;mircea_popescu;nuts.
1590189;1482598383;gabriel_laddel;speaking of nuts, it appears I somehow managed to delete my private key, registering a new one I suppose. And backing it up this time.
1590190;1482598388;gabriel_laddel;common lisp rsa when
1590191;1482598425;gabriel_laddel;wasn't there a scheme implementation dropped into the logs a long time ago?
1590192;1482598430;gabriel_laddel;should be a google groups link
1590193;1482598459;gabriel_laddel;I had it on a (now dead) harddrive 1.5+ years ago iirc.
1590194;1482598477;asciilifeform;adlai has one
1590195;1482598484;*;asciilifeform not tried
1590196;1482598510;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590185 << acetonitrile then
1590197;1482598510;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 16:51 mircea_popescu: what, like a peptide synth ?
1590198;1482598621;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590173 << how often do you need custom glass, gabriel_laddel ??
1590199;1482598621;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 16:40 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: are there glassblowing robots for custom labware yet?
1590200;1482598649;gabriel_laddel;asciilifeform: thus far, never. but it sounds like a fun thing to automate if no one has done it already
1590201;1482598682;gabriel_laddel;along with: machine learning optimized, mechanically articlulated "smartphone" autodialer
1590202;1482598682;asciilifeform;i suspect that chemists of old days used a great bit more custom glass than today not only because borosilicate was not a thing (and so, easier to melt) but also because their ground joints sucked
1590203;1482598691;asciilifeform;whereas modern joints are quite reasonably tight
1590204;1482598693;asciilifeform;!!up gabriel_laddel
1590205;1482598693;deedbot;gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
1590206;1482598705;asciilifeform;so generally you can make your custom whatever, out of standard parts.
1590207;1482598719;gabriel_laddel;ic
1590208;1482598720;asciilifeform;(where did PeterL go... he might have something to say to this.)
1590209;1482598811;gabriel_laddel;to complete the autodialer picture: the latest way american corps try to do "IP protection" is to only let you access data from one phone. Writing a program to drive stylus + camera that digs through arbitrary apps and sucks all the information out of them using OCR would be a lot of fun
1590210;1482598868;gabriel_laddel;all the pharmacy techs right now are running these "apps", which operate as a database interface to all the "copyright blah blah blah protected" pharama data
1590211;1482599306;mircea_popescu;the joint objection is quite solid.
1590212;1482599322;mircea_popescu;most resilient use of self-blown glass was because "it's the only way to get a proper seal"
1590213;1482600174;asciilifeform;!!up gabriel_laddel_p
1590214;1482600175;deedbot;gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
1590215;1482600242;gabriel_laddel_p;seems I didn't delete new key, but rather forgot to change my nick to gabriel_laddel_p
1590216;1482600244;gabriel_laddel_p;duh
1590217;1482600304;gabriel_laddel_p;anyways, can and did up self.
1590218;1482600438;gabriel_laddel_p;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588427 < what is wrong with c2mop?
1590219;1482600438;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 17:58 asciilifeform: common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
1590220;1482600481;asciilifeform;how about that it isn't in the standard ?
1590221;1482600489;asciilifeform;and that it is a mile of duct tape.
1590222;1482600533;mircea_popescu;wd eh.
1590223;1482600758;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590209 << this sounds like a monumentally retarded idea. enemy will immediately see that you are flipping through the crapola, and 'snowden detection' is the fashionable 'must have!111' corporate idiocy. pull the NAND flash like a real man.
1590224;1482600758;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 17:00 gabriel_laddel: to complete the autodialer picture: the latest way american corps try to do "IP protection" is to only let you access data from one phone. Writing a program to drive stylus + camera that digs through arbitrary apps and sucks all the information out of them using OCR would be a lot of fun
1590225;1482600799;asciilifeform;or at the very least properly pwn the pnoje, it isn't as if this were especially arduous.
1590226;1482600984;mircea_popescu;snowden detection eh.
1590227;1482601003;asciilifeform;or whatever to call the nonsense where 'oh noez, mr.slave is flipping pages TOO FAST'
1590228;1482601047;asciilifeform;i dug up, last year, an inqtel-funded thing where... camera watches, it claims, for eyes of evil snowgnomes peeking at screen, etc.
1590229;1482601056;asciilifeform;it is like rerun of 1990s drm idiocy
1590230;1482601067;asciilifeform;every 'security software co' in usa wants in.
1590231;1482601475;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590218 << i cannot resist going back to this and giving it another whack of the spiked club. this variant definition of 'works', whereby things such as clim supposedly 'work', how would folks such as gabriel_laddel like if their cpu worked like this ? on and off, when weather is just right, and randomly melts on odd-numbered thursdays, and 'oh dontcha know you gotta jiggle the handle', and 'wtf did
1590232;1482601475;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 17:27 gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588427 < what is wrong with c2mop?
1590233;1482601475;asciilifeform;you really expect real time response, what are you , a martian' or, or, or
1590234;1482601551;asciilifeform;this 'works' is a pestilence and is largely why clueful greybeards from the meat world , e.g., mircea_popescu , unzip and piss on programmers simply for sport
1590235;1482601638;asciilifeform;dun like drinking piss?  then stop being known for 'travail arabe' .
1590236;1482601650;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally that nonsense is only superficially related to snowden. in practice it is an extension of the "artificial intelligence" used in "spam detection", especially as the doomed but desperate attempt at websites to fight the republican bots.
1590237;1482601663;mircea_popescu;the other expansion of that is of course the whole "mechanical fakenews detection"
1590238;1482601703;mircea_popescu;basically, the ~one hope of the imperial technologistic church of some sort of practical results is a peculiar form of ai. they're doubling down on it exactly in the manner usg doubled down on "alternative fuels".
1590239;1482601722;mircea_popescu;they will suffer the same fate, too, but until he is killed the death convict still lives like any other.
1590240;1482601739;asciilifeform;the mechanical politruk, which doesn't 'quis custodiet ipsos custodes?', and cannot be bribed, bought, needs 0 rest, can really 'plug into all of the telescreens at one time in the ministry of luvvvv', etc.
1590241;1482601752;asciilifeform;their ancient dream, yes.
1590242;1482601774;mircea_popescu;quite an ancient dream yes
1590243;1482601785;asciilifeform;hence ethertardium etc.
1590244;1482601845;mircea_popescu;the applications to eg banking are beyond lulzy. but they're willing to destroy the currency (currency ? what currency ? dollars don't pay nothing, it's notes from hitler if you want anything done) to try and prop it up because outside of usg.ai there's nothing
1590245;1482601866;asciilifeform;the real megabux are, apparently, not even in 'data leakage prevention', as the earlier crackpottery is known, but in the yet (afaik) nameless ~detection of the turned~
1590246;1482601897;asciilifeform;that is, automated probing for sudden curiosity, or evidence of ideological unreliability of whatever origin.
1590247;1482601945;mircea_popescu;it's in the more general form "detection of edges". they want to identify cars, and go winning strategies, and people who don't like them and everything else.
1590248;1482601968;mircea_popescu;and they expect to do it by pouring lots of gb in very trivial neural/expert systems.
1590249;1482601982;asciilifeform;quite likely there is an eight-figure golden toilet contract right at this very moment to attempt to roster, e.g., ts clearance holders who show symptoms of having used bitcoin. and the like.
1590250;1482601990;mircea_popescu;aha.
1590251;1482602009;mircea_popescu;some comments mp made here last year sent some cold shivers.
1590252;1482602015;asciilifeform;(why not house'em in шарашкаs and be done with it, one might ask)
1590253;1482602026;mircea_popescu;structural difference, alf.
1590254;1482602046;mircea_popescu;"why would girl go to all thetrouble of pretending on facebook when she could just walk up to every guy in sight and go "hey, wanna feel my tits ?"
1590255;1482602063;mircea_popescu;the criterion is not "optimal efficiency", but "optimal efficiency in the paradigm space".
1590256;1482602067;mircea_popescu;they're... not that kind of girl.
1590257;1482602073;asciilifeform;afaik the structural diff is that usa traditionally relied on 'carrots' for the seekrit folx, more than 'sticks'
1590258;1482602082;asciilifeform;but the carrots begin to run out.
1590259;1482602088;mircea_popescu;historical accident be what it may, it can't really be said it constitutes a proper cause.
1590260;1482602103;mircea_popescu;ie, it is because of this, but not for this reason.
1590261;1482602177;mircea_popescu;the funny thing is that the approach is trivially defeated in practice. they're relying on a ~fixed~, unchanging enemy. which naivite in the manner of 3yos and their modelling of environment geometries was previously touched upon.
1590262;1482602187;mircea_popescu;but it's why the two week war isn't done after thirteen.
1590263;1482602322;asciilifeform;usg has become such a loathesome and monstrous thing, that there is no fixed set of 'enemy', every earthworm in every step of ground it steps on, becomes enemy
1590264;1482602362;mircea_popescu;anyway, the fate of the socialist empire in its eternal historical cyclicity is fascinating. so - nazis put everything on large tanks ; and failed. but then soviets put everything on a particular notion of industrialization (steel-per-capita industrialization, so to speak) and... failed. so the one socialist empire left standing is putting it all on "ai". and...
1590265;1482602375;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i recall this being said here years ago aha.
1590266;1482602416;mircea_popescu;it was also said cca 1800s, it read like "si de-aceea tot ce misca-n tara asta, riul, ramul imi e prieten numai mie, iara tie - dusman ti-este."
1590267;1482602454;mircea_popescu;it's what "totalitarian" means, after all - everyone is the enemy.
1590268;1482602464;asciilifeform;dusman!! i had nfi that this persian word, known to half the planet, made it as west as ro
1590269;1482602468;mircea_popescu;:)
1590270;1482602484;mircea_popescu;it's not even some obscure poetic license. basic vocabulary.
1590271;1482602487;asciilifeform;well yes
1590272;1482602703;mircea_popescu;anyway, i suspect on the face, "the difference between stupid 5k cell brains and smart 5k cell brains is in the yottabytes they looked at" is almost persuasive.
1590273;1482602713;mircea_popescu;it certainly is MADE to be persuasive for the sort of minds coming out of ivy league "colleges"
1590274;1482602738;mircea_popescu;which is why we could properly qualify this complex as a memetic virus. it infects, and the host can feel it's infected, but can't prevent the infection.
1590275;1482602742;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-26#1386298 << oblig
1590276;1482602742;a111;Logged on 2016-01-26 17:20 ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
1590277;1482602804;asciilifeform;which, incidentally, i suspect is why alphago has not been trotted again.
1590278;1482602817;asciilifeform;*trotted out
1590279;1482602853;mircea_popescu;well in this model man uses trillions of neurons to process many GBps. what's their tired flatworm brain to do with all of it ? http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ is prolly de rigueur.
1590280;1482602874;asciilifeform;gotta teach the 'grind student' again, by rote, the rote responses to the counterattacks actual people almost immediately came up with.
1590281;1482602877;asciilifeform;so that it can look like 'ai'.
1590282;1482602900;mircea_popescu;(ftr, the "100bn neurons" figure IS MISTAKEN. yes at any point you slice a brain you find something like that ; but neurons also die - yet their death is not automatically in vain now is it!)
1590283;1482602906;asciilifeform;we already saw this movie before, with 'deep blue'
1590284;1482602932;mircea_popescu;(and "death" here means a rather complex thing.)
1590285;1482602979;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we had thread about musculature of pan troglodytes, where many fewer cells in the muscle than a man's, but he can tear the man in half. so even for an ordinary mechanical 'strength', counting mass is nonsense.
1590286;1482603011;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1590287;1482603060;asciilifeform;nobody thinks of weighing, e.g., 386 vs pentium to learn which one bangs moar for the buck
1590288;1482603073;mircea_popescu;im sure some arabs did it.
1590289;1482603076;asciilifeform;or let's why not weigh james watt's steam engine vs modern diesel and say same thing.
1590290;1482603082;asciilifeform;moar!
1590291;1482603107;mircea_popescu;nevertheless - the argument as to neuron count is not directly mass ; it is parts. one DOES compare transistor counts.
1590292;1482603133;asciilifeform;even then
1590293;1482603137;mircea_popescu;sure.
1590294;1482603138;asciilifeform;rather like comparing 'lines of code'
1590295;1482603147;asciilifeform;(winblowz - wins!1!! forever!!1)
1590296;1482603159;mircea_popescu;more like comparing "ast nodes". not the best and not the worst measure of complexity.
1590297;1482603180;asciilifeform;they are, to borrow from dijkstra, 'cost, not revenue, no matter how many people insist on writing them down on the wrong side of the ledger'
1590298;1482603196;mircea_popescu;heh.
1590299;1482603221;asciilifeform;complexity -- is a cost. that it sometimes also brings something in return, is incidental.
1590300;1482603232;mircea_popescu;the notion that loc = revenue is not unlike the notion that fucking is something you wanna do. it's work, let the girl work for it!
1590301;1482603286;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'loc == revenue' is simply this century's version of chinese/su 'moar steel, revenue!'
1590302;1482603304;asciilifeform;догоним и перегоним! (tm) (r)
1590303;1482603341;asciilifeform;see also, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-24#641281 .
1590304;1482603341;a111;Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
1590305;1482603685;mircea_popescu;quite.
1590306;1482603780;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit earlier thread, i found an old piece by shoup that utterly demolishes the oaep nonsense. (unfortunately pdfized, and not convertible meaningfully.)
1590307;1482603795;asciilifeform;in exactly the way i expected it would fall down on serious examination
1590308;1482603806;mircea_popescu;prolly worth hand-translating
1590309;1482603820;mircea_popescu;so you can be you know, downvoted on hacker fake news.
1590310;1482603822;asciilifeform;(proved that there necessarily exists a hash boojum , for any given scheme that includes any hash of whatever kind, that makes the algo fall down.)
1590311;1482603878;asciilifeform;y'know, sappers in popular imagination (and sometimes in life) actually clear mines, but just as often simply put little flat into the earth.
1590312;1482603881;asciilifeform;'here -- mines.'
1590313;1482603894;asciilifeform;so here it is. flag.
1590314;1482603902;asciilifeform;*flag into
1590315;1482603998;asciilifeform;this is discussed publicly even less often than the pseudoscientific nonsense of block and stream ciphers, but: hashes are necessarily voodoo. elementarily, by counting argument (input:output sets are not 1:1).
1590316;1482604036;asciilifeform;and the hashes popularly in use are optimized for strictly one thing -- (perceived!) collision resistance
1590317;1482604059;asciilifeform;and certainly not for other, orthogonal (or even, possibly, contradictory!) properties such as non-leakage and non-structurization
1590318;1482604070;asciilifeform;this came up in the rng whitening thread, but bears mentioning now and again
1590319;1482604126;asciilifeform;(for instance, it may well be the case that, e.g., sha2, or keccak, leak, say, the parity of the incoming bitstring into the hash. or some other property.)
1590320;1482604148;asciilifeform;and this would not count against their collision resistance, which was the only property actually asked for by the designer.
1590321;1482604180;asciilifeform;(whether 'collision resistance' of any hash is a matter of demonstrable physical reality, or of imagination, is wholly separate subject)
1590322;1482604277;asciilifeform;the rifle MAY make an acceptable boar oar. but if it does, it will be purely by accident.
1590323;1482604281;asciilifeform;*boat oar
1590324;1482604447;*;asciilifeform bbl.
1590325;1482608924;hanbot;pf4x99nJYL
1590326;1482609234;hanbot;oh for fuck's sake.
1590327;1482609266;*;shinohai writes down hanbot 's Eulora password
1590328;1482609273;trinque;o lawdy
1590329;1482609279;shinohai;>.>
1590330;1482609356;hanbot;lol. juuuust my pw for the coffee cache.
1590331;1482609393;hanbot;iirc second time i've done it, too. kbds everywhere, i guess i'ma install some fucktard blinkenlicten.
1590332;1482614536;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: p funny
1590333;1482614777;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590268 << funnily enough, in .lt there is that word, and it means something like "illegal taxi driver" (yes precisely that level of specificity). like microvans in the balkans etc. i have nfi how this happened :D
1590334;1482614777;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 18:01 asciilifeform: dusman!! i had nfi that this persian word, known to half the planet, made it as west as ro
1590335;1482617445;ben_vulpes;http://motherboard.vice.com/read/fancy-bear-hack-of-ukrainian-artillery-fighters-shows-future-of-war << android apps distributed over forums is some great indicator of how the world works
1590336;1482617665;shinohai;touche
1590337;1482619289;mircea_popescu;incidentally, anyone saw "when i want to whistle, i whistle" ?
1590338;1482619289;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: pls to qntra apptillery lulz?
1590339;1482619586;*;BingoBoingo did not saw that
1590340;1482619603;mircea_popescu;very real rendition of ro prison system
1590341;1482619805;*;BingoBoingo just has saws on the mind. Tis the season.
1590342;1482620055;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/24/standing-in-line-like-overdressed-cattle/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Standing in line like overdressed cattle.
1590343;1482620664;Framedragger;http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ << was planning to go to sleep easily and wake up with light christmas spirit. dreams will now be filled with automata
1590344;1482620674;mircea_popescu;aw!
1590345;1482620675;Framedragger;while rereading old logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-21#572003 << hehehe :)
1590346;1482620675;a111;Logged on 2014-03-21 14:23 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the real reason you want a client is that you can then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and that is good quality safety, not the sort of crud normally peddled.
1590347;1482620700;Framedragger;s/rereading/reading/
1590348;1482620712;mircea_popescu;Framedragger should be noted that i was a lot more optimistic about open source in 2014.
1590349;1482620782;Framedragger;certainly noted! assumed as much :) includes increased pessimism for funding OS projects (such as openbsd) etc i guess...
1590350;1482620849;mircea_popescu;anyway, the principle espoused is sound - you want a client because you want to control the software ; the application involved however who knows,.
1590351;1482620933;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the problem isn't "founding os projects" but quite orthogonal to that : ustards have a significant mental problem whereby they imagine they will separate funding and activity. the existence of a so called "foundation" is the usual macula of this sort of idiocy, much like chancre is the mark of syphilis.
1590352;1482621129;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590325 << your password is now TMSR Safe(tm) certified. we have analyzed your password using stochastic gradient reduction methods(tm) that have determined that your password is safe from hackers. we recommend changing your existing passwords that are not TMSR Safe(tm) to your new TMSR Safe(tm) password. Ask our representative about helpful tips: how to change your Pretty Good Privacy password to TMSR
1590353;1482621129;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 19:48 hanbot: pf4x99nJYL
1590354;1482621130;phf;Safe(tm) password.
1590355;1482621159;ben_vulpes;nice
1590356;1482621164;mircea_popescu;you should prolly unrate phf nao
1590357;1482621223;Framedragger;!~bash 5
1590358;1482621223;jhvh1;Last 5 lines bashed and pending publication
1590359;1482621439;hanbot;hahaha TMSR Safe & catfacts, xmas is served!
1590360;1482621766;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: perhaps
1590361;1482621779;ben_vulpes;'tis a fertile topic.
1590362;1482622150;mircea_popescu;speaking of fertile topics, seeing how it's christmas and all, let us revisit http://trilema.com/2015/quantum-mechanics-today-a-machine-to-turn-penis-projectile-vibration-into-eyelash-flutter/
1590363;1482622269;mats;http://www.geekwire.com/2016/oculus-engineering-leader-arrested-near-seattle-charged-soliciting-sex-cop-posing-15-year-old-girl lul
1590364;1482622281;mircea_popescu;o.O
1590365;1482622306;mircea_popescu;i wonder if sv investors carry 15yo cop insurance for their lead engineers by now.
1590366;1482622458;mats;oculus is literally developed by pedo jews at Facebook
1590367;1482622468;mats;10/10 qntra headline
1590368;1482622493;mircea_popescu;wouldn't it be called speculum rift if this were true ?
1590369;1482622540;mats;indeed
1590370;1482622984;phf;"Upon his arrest, Katz told the officer that he was there to rescue the girl, and should have first called police, according to charging documents."
1590371;1482623509;Framedragger;(last thing i've read before going to sleep is how a kid high on ganja used a bazooka: https://www.reddit.com/r/trees/comments/25a19p/welp_i_did_something_terrible_in_cambodia_in_a/ ahem. but kinda funny)
1590372;1482623683;mircea_popescu;self-reported folklore may have a heavy fictitious tinge.
1590373;1482623717;Framedragger;but sometimes one may indulge and do the whole suspension of disbelief thing :) but yes, quite, hm
1590374;1482624642;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590363 << lel, sv d00d 'can also have problems'
1590375;1482624642;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 23:31 mats: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/oculus-engineering-leader-arrested-near-seattle-charged-soliciting-sex-cop-posing-15-year-old-girl lul
1590376;1482624700;phf;asciilifeform: for serious, the utter wtf charging documents
1590377;1482624712;mircea_popescu;and in other red cups, http://68.media.tumblr.com/b8c5dcbb38fc96353b2f157093e8c64b/tumblr_nxvb818rJ11uqi6wxo1_1280.jpg
1590378;1482624733;mircea_popescu;phf this gonan be your first qntra ?
1590379;1482624806;mircea_popescu;https://twitter.com/BunnyFuxalot/status/793954128657412097 << in other lulz the twitter hate speech ai detector is working like a charm.
1590380;1482626464;phf;i don't think i can produce any amount of vitriol necessary for the subject
1590381;1482626485;mircea_popescu;well you did read the police hting
1590382;1482628653;BingoBoingo;phf: Then go to store get vitriol. The kind we (as opposed to ether huffers) deal in is commonly sold as "Amazing liquid fire" drain cleaner.
1590383;1482631234;thestringpuller;merry x-mas ya'll
1590384;1482631410;shinohai;bah humbug
1590385;1482631548;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7BF8EB8D2D68CE1E4855870A3C79CF4C82788402C705177B5598EE20CC7C296E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1558...2899 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.248.102.188 (ssh-rsa key from 89.248.102.188 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (89-248-102-188.redes.interdominios.com. ES)
1590386;1482631548;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5455B496A150E589ABDC54C061597D378839BC6ECD6398DA657061EFE4B07999 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...8337 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.128.66.87 (ssh-rsa key from 217.128.66.87 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (LPuteaux-657-1-61-87.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr. FR)
1590387;1482634432;BingoBoingo;Merry Ex-mash Phuctor
1590388;1482635537;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/Plpt2i.png
1590389;1482636295;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6040
1590390;1482637466;shinohai;https://i.sli.mg/Plpt2i.png   <<< lo
1590391;1482637669;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7BF8EB8D2D68CE1E4855870A3C79CF4C82788402C705177B5598EE20CC7C296E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1385...7409 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.248.102.188 (ssh-rsa key from 89.248.102.188 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (89-248-102-188.redes.interdominios.com. ES)
1590392;1482637669;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5455B496A150E589ABDC54C061597D378839BC6ECD6398DA657061EFE4B07999 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1533...7649 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.128.66.87 (ssh-rsa key from 217.128.66.87 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (LPuteaux-657-1-61-87.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr. FR)
1590393;1482639091;mats;http://www.portman.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=F973E46B-AA8C-4F3E-91B4-8EC0FC7F2F3E
1590394;1482639100;mats;minitrue come to life
1590395;1482639361;mats;also, Cyber Command is being divorced from NSA
1590396;1482639734;mats;(Director of the NSA no longer also runs CYBERCOM)
1590397;1482640675;phf;"...  for countering THE foreign propaganda and disinformation being wages against us and our allies by our enemies."
1590398;1482640768;phf;oh right, they are not here..
1590399;1482641374;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/0WjCL << Taleb : "The problem with identity politics is that they are fully ignorant of, among other things, history. And they must be as blind visually as they are intellectually."
1590400;1482641435;pete_dushenski;https://medium.com/opacity/no-jesus-was-not-a-nonwhite-refugee-who-would-have-voted-for-43779209eea4#.1ii46ja1m << pics of ancient stone busts, which really are the story here, don't archive
1590401;1482642256;pete_dushenski;btw merry chrismukkah to all observers!
1590402;1482665726;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/a-story-of-men/ << Trilema - A story of men.
1590403;1482668742;shinohai;https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1010
1590404;1482673228;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5903A4A17412928163DB4CAFD99156896B77F309220459233790398D86EB8CAE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2710...7181 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '198.37.105.217 (ssh-rsa key from 198.37.105.217 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (105.37.198-217.dc74.net. US NC)
1590405;1482673229;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FE96C19FCC7E93EE8B55E995DB6719C0B5303BB84836F937370A63B1A5A53140 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3127...2173 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.136.33.155 (ssh-rsa key from 213.136.33.155 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.arkitekt.se. SE W)
1590406;1482673229;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C78216621EE9916A255D86FF0908E9B71BCF604F479C9C84EC23CDF984DF22BD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1692...5813 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.240.192.77 (ssh-rsa key from 82.240.192.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.amireva.com. FR 31 N)
1590407;1482678523;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590397 << the lulziest part in all that aren't the various necessary insanities cribbed from the cold sweat of the other socialisms ; but the notion that "our allies". dude what ?! the regime has allies ?!
1590408;1482678523;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 04:37 phf: "...  for countering THE foreign propaganda and disinformation being wages against us and our allies by our enemies."
1590409;1482678546;mircea_popescu;even the comintern knew better than that ; and the comintern consisted of random plow pushers taken to town last spring.
1590410;1482679267;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590400 << solid work from taleb, sadly on fucking medium.
1590411;1482679267;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 04:50 pete_dushenski: https://medium.com/opacity/no-jesus-was-not-a-nonwhite-refugee-who-would-have-voted-for-43779209eea4#.1ii46ja1m << pics of ancient stone busts, which really are the story here, don't archive
1590412;1482679295;mircea_popescu;how can he be ~this fucking blind~ is beyond conception, and then he talks of "state worshiping iyi". dude... YOURE ON MEDIUM.
1590413;1482680537;adlai;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590194 << i don't think crap-rsa ever leaked, although i did publish crap-secp256k1 for deed validation
1590414;1482680537;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 16:54 asciilifeform: adlai has one
1590415;1482680881;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CDE0EB6C581D23C4D24451A316CF43EFB241A22EA35B998B4CB6A7DC79AB7548 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1372...1849 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.138.153.12 (ssh-rsa key from 62.138.153.12 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ds62-138-153-12.dedicated.hosteurope.de. DE NW)
1590416;1482680914;Framedragger;if i'd known that there'd be so many pops, i wouldn't have plastered my nym on all those gpg keys >.< this *is* a bit spammy...
1590417;1482681114;Framedragger;i don't suppose anyone here has messed with android 'adopted' storage? (use sd card as internal encrypted android storage.) i'm trying to recover files from a half-broken 32GB sd card which has weirdo android-internal partitions and encryption.. oh god
1590418;1482681166;Framedragger;but it seems that the encryption key is (of course) found on the card itself (one can just dd...), in a weird 'meta' part. it's just aes 128 bit. sek00rity
1590419;1482681227;Framedragger;google aliased dmcrypt to $some_internal_serious_sounding_android_keyword and moved things around...
1590420;1482681248;Framedragger;(for logs, http://nelenkov.blogspot.lt/2015/06/decrypting-android-m-adopted-storage.html )
1590421;1482681289;Framedragger;(ahh, maybe the key *isn't* on the card.. which makes it slightly less retarted; slightly)
1590422;1482681325;mircea_popescu;Framedragger most of the usg corps steal foss and posture as a business strategy.
1590423;1482681343;Framedragger;aha! still funny when it's done so transparently hm
1590424;1482681355;mircea_popescu;the net effect being that it'd take three determined people a few weeks to reconstruct $usg.project's software.
1590425;1482681421;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5903A4A17412928163DB4CAFD99156896B77F309220459233790398D86EB8CAE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1540...8337 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '198.37.105.217 (ssh-rsa key from 198.37.105.217 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (105.37.198-217.dc74.net. US NC)
1590426;1482681421;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FE96C19FCC7E93EE8B55E995DB6719C0B5303BB84836F937370A63B1A5A53140 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1766...0467 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.136.33.155 (ssh-rsa key from 213.136.33.155 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.arkitekt.se. SE W)
1590427;1482681421;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C78216621EE9916A255D86FF0908E9B71BCF604F479C9C84EC23CDF984DF22BD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1413...7607 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.240.192.77 (ssh-rsa key from 82.240.192.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.amireva.com. FR 31 N)
1590428;1482681732;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590416 << http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpev8JXJHQ&t=0m53s
1590429;1482681732;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 15:48 Framedragger: if i'd known that there'd be so many pops, i wouldn't have plastered my nym on all those gpg keys >.< this *is* a bit spammy...
1590430;1482681870;mircea_popescu;unlike Framedragger , malkovich is actually fucking insufferable.
1590431;1482681892;mircea_popescu;he's meanwhile run out of audience in the states, was mining buenos aires recently. POETRY READING!
1590432;1482682138;Framedragger;nice free association: there's a pretty lulzy but cool film called colour me kubrick. based on tru st0ry in which this almost-homeless alcoholic guy pretends to be kubrick thereby gaining respect, deals, fancy restaurant dining etc. played my malkovich, and it somehow works for me.
1590433;1482682151;Framedragger;(maybe because the guy played is insuffeable, too..)
1590434;1482682303;Framedragger;^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Conway
1590435;1482682383;mircea_popescu;in small doses im sure he's fine.
1590436;1482682491;BingoBoingo;http://oglaf.com/tsa2016/
1590437;1482682523;mircea_popescu;Framedragger we deduce kubrik's wife, christiane, was sexually unsatisfied by kubrik's cock (oliver ?)
1590438;1482682630;phf;i only saw him in that one movie, and it's my humorous goto visual metaphor for malignant narcissism. i sometimes think that he's only popular in u.s. because of his funny sounding last name, kind of like zizek. like there's a weird feedback loop between the last name and certain kind of social eccentricity
1590439;1482682632;ben_vulpes;http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/1/211100-pure-randomness-extracted-from-two-poor-sources/fulltext << asciilifeform: in which the acm tells the world that fuckgoats was tin woman overkill
1590440;1482682684;mircea_popescu;phf i dunno, the eastern european name is in my head taken over by that piece of furniture besson was infatuated with at some point.
1590441;1482682712;mircea_popescu;she wasn't even hot in any sense, dear god, any highschool in the region could have provided two better in the same vein.
1590442;1482682744;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes hey, they get their tin womenz and we get ours, then we watch the catfight to end all wars.
1590443;1482682823;mircea_popescu;Security specialist Bruce Schneier, for one, does not see any urgent need for better random numbers. Schneier helped create the widely used Fortuna pseudorandom-number generator, and says there are already many adequate sources. "In my world no one's worried about this," he said. "These systems already work" to provide secure communications when attention is paid to all of the other implementation details. "We have lots of pr
1590444;1482682823;mircea_popescu;oblems; this isn't one of them."
1590445;1482682830;mircea_popescu;^epic schneider material though :D
1590446;1482682918;mircea_popescu;jesus fuck this dreck is unreadable.
1590447;1482683122;phf;oooh jovovich. yeah..
1590448;1482683243;mircea_popescu;one way to look at thw hole "gay rights" thing is, "the dudes who'd rather fuck boys really belong on their own reservation rather than flooding the market with dumb looking tomboys"
1590449;1482683343;mircea_popescu;iirc before her he chased some 15yo.
1590450;1482683645;mircea_popescu;and in lafond lulz, "I used to work with Mister Bill, who was retired from Army Intelligence in the early 1970s. During the Vietnam War he tortured Viet Cong and NVA regulars at Fort Meade—no shit. he trained guys in field interrogations using real enemy. This guy looked like Eliot Ness—used to intimidate all of is coworkers just by the way he smoked his cigarette and wore his fedora. A 13-year-old kid stuck him up while
1590451;1482683645;mircea_popescu;he was sitting in his car. He told me that he was impressed by the kid's composure and thought he's make a good field operative..."
1590452;1482683672;mircea_popescu;i get it, every housewife must have her dreams, but dude, notice that your mythological avatar... GOT ROBBED ?
1590453;1482683714;mircea_popescu;i'm supposed to be impressed with some dork who ran around threatening "to tell" on everyone in the schoolyard for smoking because his mommy told him to, oh noes, prohibition agent / hero. ffs already.
1590454;1482683933;mircea_popescu;at this rate it's a wonder lafond isn't wearing a gut halter. god knows his mommy did! and her mommy before her!
1590455;1482683934;mircea_popescu;fucken goof.
1590456;1482683945;phf;well, besson was making decade appropriate genre movies. new york new wave did the whole androgyny in the 80s, by the 90s everyone else caught up. plus there was gainsbourg paving the way with his épatage
1590457;1482684002;mircea_popescu;the fucking point is - whatever some old fart with a good old fart story the other old farts eat up THOUGHT, the street tough didn't think he made a good "fiedl operative". in positive fact he made a good victim and no more.
1590458;1482684035;mircea_popescu;phf but my idea is... the "androgyny" thing only exists because gay dudes masquerading.
1590459;1482684064;mircea_popescu;once that went away, "the androgyny thing" that never was a thing to begin with ~if you weren't really into fucking boys~ also went away.
1590460;1482684355;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> the fucking point is - whatever some old fart with a good old fart story the other old farts eat up THOUGHT, the street tough didn't think he made a good "fiedl operative". in positive fact he made a good victim and no more. << /me read it as old fart who was was befroe becoming old fart thought child robber would make good field operative. But the crime as I read is he doesn't figure that the child already is a field oe
1590461;1482684355;BingoBoingo;prative.
1590462;1482684386;BingoBoingo;Anyways USG stooges don't age well
1590463;1482684413;mircea_popescu;how can i distinguish this story from "roger ver, who once had the most bitcoins of anyone on the planet, thinks thedaoattacker would make a fine bitcoin developer" ?
1590464;1482684444;mircea_popescu;it's not even deep enough, because not only "he's all tough and shit like lock ness monster" claim holds , but the fducking monster ISNT TOUGH.
1590465;1482684521;BingoBoingo;WAS, stooges tend to lose their toughness when the age out of the stoogery in USG land
1590466;1482684538;BingoBoingo;Or stories of badassery are drunken fictions
1590467;1482684617;mircea_popescu;that whole "prohibition heroes" thing was, and is, an incredibly transparent, and screamingly lame attempt by the puritan wanna-be preacher apparatus ( https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/de/d0/feded087bb5b76da57473b6e7078ffaf.jpg << t5his guy ) to make up a socialist hero to go with the actual hero, the al capones, meyer lanskis and bugsy siegels.
1590468;1482684647;mircea_popescu;it has all the cachet and all the panache of a "christian rockstar" - the result of a trainload of philistine running out of coal in a desert of stupid.
1590469;1482684687;BingoBoingo;Well, there are many deserts of stupid and only so much coal. Most of which goes into lighting the desert of stupid
1590470;1482684690;phf;aah, i see your point, though i'm not sure about the definition of a thing in relation to "really into". a thing is a fad. gays started this particular fad, "everyone" was on board for a bit, until the aids epidemic. i think shoulder pads for example are androgynous, likewise a fad
1590471;1482684717;mircea_popescu;i thought shoulderpads were the first dry run of the whole "i r lion hear me roar!" thing.
1590472;1482684725;mircea_popescu;they did tend to go mostly with lion's made hairdos for womenz.
1590473;1482684772;mircea_popescu;ie, "feminist" made not "political-identity-gay" made. mostly because at the time gay==faggot, there wasn't a "political-identity-gay" machine.
1590474;1482684819;mircea_popescu;so, predictably, they just parasithized it, because of the wanna-be-woman faggotry, some wanna be woman "as historical essence" and some "as current fashion", so you ended up with that wham idiot doing shoulderpads and girly hairdos ; and sir what's his face, the fat ugly one doing "historical hats like queen liz"
1590475;1482684872;BingoBoingo;BUt anyways, the US is divided into two areas. Ones where you can sit in your car, make phone calls, and smoke all the cigarettes you want in said car; and places where if you sit in your car too long after car stops a child puts a gun in your face.
1590476;1482684935;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo and has been, since at least the 70s. we used to call the 2nd area "the bronx"
1590477;1482684948;mircea_popescu;but hey, provincial towns gotta copy new york don;t they.
1590478;1482684968;BingoBoingo;Well, yeah, now it is the "urban" http://qntra.net/2016/12/missouri-state-representative-elect-bruce-franks-robbed-at-gunpoint/
1590479;1482685026;mircea_popescu;heh. did this one also torture martians / rape baby seals or is he from the other side of the Great Delusion.
1590480;1482685061;phf;haha, well, we're on the same page. i have a soft spot for shoulder pads, because that's your 80s moscows, blade runner, so i just can't see them in terms of "hear me roar". but i think we had the whole sean young thread before..
1590481;1482685084;*;mircea_popescu suspects the proper romanian expletive to discuss these dorks would be "sa-mi bag pula-n ei de figuranti ; ma pis pe ma-sa si-i dau foc."
1590482;1482685115;mircea_popescu;phf ftr you definitely gotta see the recent triad if you haven't already.
1590483;1482685151;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Parked car predators know no limits after Micheal Brown put all that fear into poor Ferguson police officer back in 2014.
1590484;1482685156;phf;mircea_popescu: triad?
1590485;1482685177;mircea_popescu;phf http://trilema.com/2016/a-story-of-men/
1590486;1482685189;phf;oh oh k
1590487;1482685189;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Nah that one was a "Lives matter" activist turned state legislator
1590488;1482685192;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo they do have a point, man at wheel is uniquely vulnerable, law doesn't much help.
1590489;1482685237;BingoBoingo;I mean in St Louis they also got governor elect's wife
1590490;1482685253;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo how the fuck all these mytologizing gimps fail to point out that loch ness' job was to bring down al capone, AT WHICH JOB HE FAILED ? he's like the che guevara of the gynecaeum i swear.
1590491;1482685287;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: They fail to point it out because they suck and their heros need to suck.
1590492;1482685322;mircea_popescu;yes but if they know this why do they also insist to suck cunt of all things.
1590493;1482685346;BingoBoingo;"memetic virus"?
1590494;1482685350;BingoBoingo;Per yesterday
1590495;1482685371;mircea_popescu;ya think ? i guess.
1590496;1482685392;BingoBoingo;Anyways stupid is self reinforcing.
1590497;1482685581;BingoBoingo;Screw get softer, except some people make tougher OMGWTFBBQ wood screws for the purpose of framing more thing whish probably ought not be wood of wood.
1590498;1482685606;BingoBoingo;Until those get the Zamac treatment too
1590499;1482685970;BingoBoingo;Or why bars get filled fake old crap just because one bar filled with old crap managed to open a second location back in the day.
1590500;1482686010;BingoBoingo;Where what is proper is that things in the bar get old because bar gets old
1590501;1482693058;mircea_popescu;what are you doing in a bar anyway
1590502;1482693534;BingoBoingo;I'm not in a bar, but I have some vague memories of what bars were like.
1590503;1482693542;mircea_popescu;ah
1590504;1482693590;*;BingoBoingo trying to try to describe examples of the sort of infectious stupidity that makes losers hold up loser "heros" instead of actual heros
1590505;1482693650;BingoBoingo;The stupidity that hits a critical mass and becomes "Hussein Bahamas presentes: How the World Works"
1590506;1482693982;ben_vulpes;in ten slides
1590507;1482694007;mircea_popescu;ocho, better.
1590508;1482694019;ben_vulpes;ah yes, eight is a better number than ten.
1590509;1482694079;ben_vulpes;in other nyooz, $offspring issued his first low-ambiguity ASL gesture this morning: 'food'
1590510;1482694201;mircea_popescu;whatcha give him
1590511;1482694355;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo anyway, it's particularly offensive because the dood was the stereotypical lush-with-hallucinated-war-stories.
1590512;1482694536;BingoBoingo;Particular example was offensive, but "sitting in a car" seems like its on its way to becoming the new "nailgun accident"
1590513;1482694606;mircea_popescu;aha.
1590514;1482694638;mircea_popescu;so who's this "helena blavatsky" chick
1590515;1482694658;mircea_popescu;i don't expect the 19th century occultist came back ?
1590516;1482694659;BingoBoingo;No idea
1590517;1482694714;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/grinch-netanyahu-deliver-christmas-scolding-to-ambassadors/ << Qntra - Grinch Netanyahu Deliver Christmas Scolding To Ambassadors
1590518;1482694727;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, "To all BNet visitors, due to unprecedented scamming on the BNet Forum, we have been forced to shut the facility down. We are looking at alternative systems that will allow us to restart the Forum under a much better security protocol. We hope to be able to restart the Forum sometime in the New Year. Thank you for visiting the Forum and hope to see you again there in the New Year.  To all who had signed up, we
1590519;1482694727;mircea_popescu;have lost all email addresses."
1590520;1482695287;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: quiche
1590521;1482695355;mircea_popescu;funny, that's what i'm having!
1590522;1482695390;ben_vulpes;there are several dozens of eggs worth of quiche in this house right now, and myriad cakes
1590523;1482695407;ben_vulpes;but this was not enough for me
1590524;1482695440;ben_vulpes;and i have 'convinced' the girls to make the traditional family coffee cake
1590525;1482695458;ben_vulpes;where 'convince' is something along the lines of "no seriously you have all the ingredients it would be a sin to not make it. also i want it. so..."
1590526;1482695493;mircea_popescu;i went around distributing tinned biscuits this morning.
1590527;1482695516;mircea_popescu;how's tinned biscuits you ask ? why, you take a gingerbread round, put it in a jar lid, cover it in rum and there you go - tinned biscuit!
1590528;1482695536;ben_vulpes;gingerbread soaked in run?
1590529;1482695538;ben_vulpes;rum*
1590530;1482695541;mircea_popescu;oya
1590531;1482695566;mircea_popescu;mp-haus gingerbread style is very gingery and very dry. apparently ginger bread varies a lot.
1590532;1482695571;*;ben_vulpes stares at the half gingerbread cake
1590533;1482695587;ben_vulpes;oya, ours is a veritably moist cake
1590534;1482695591;mircea_popescu;o what's in your quiche btw ? mine's shrimp.
1590535;1482695618;ben_vulpes;there's one shallot, one cheese and sausage, one mushroom spinach, and one more plain
1590536;1482695639;mircea_popescu;good mushroom or plain mushroom ?
1590537;1482695656;mircea_popescu;it's somewhat regrettable we can't house visit and try these.
1590538;1482695709;ben_vulpes;i assume good mushroom, $girl went out and selected them from the hipsters herself
1590539;1482695739;mircea_popescu;ah worx.
1590540;1482695742;diana_coman;mircea_popescu> i went around distributing tinned biscuits this morning. <- it gave me this fleeting image of a red-hatted mp with a huge jar going round the neighbourhood
1590541;1482695750;mircea_popescu;lol
1590542;1482695837;mircea_popescu;and now being prepared - lasagna!
1590543;1482695928;BingoBoingo;IN other salads https://archive.is/d0Y0B
1590544;1482696038;ben_vulpes;i'm not even going to start on the five courses currently under preparation
1590545;1482696060;ben_vulpes;i only really know what one of the courses is, am content to let the chefs work their surprise magic
1590546;1482696078;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ahaha check out all the effort they put into it. "the website", really ?
1590547;1482696095;mircea_popescu;from now on it's "The webiste 'whitehouse' based in maryland".
1590548;1482696178;mircea_popescu;(cur | prev) 01:18, 10 May 2014‎ Agyle (talk | contribs)‎ . . (4,611 bytes) (-40)‎ . . (removed reference to mpex.co, not reliable source, and didn't seem to verify information anyway. see WP:RS.) (undo)
1590549;1482696178;mircea_popescu;(cur | prev) 01:14, 10 May 2014‎ Agyle (talk | contribs)‎ . . (4,651 bytes) (-42)‎ . . (removed loper-os reference, not a reliable source. see WP:RS.) (undo)
1590550;1482696190;mircea_popescu;^ from the history. check out what isn't a reliable source. epic shit.
1590551;1482696312;BingoBoingo;4real
1590552;1482696521;mircea_popescu;also looks like this is the first time anyone read that article since 2014. who knew nobody gives a shit about wikipedia.
1590553;1482697298;BingoBoingo;And still not purged
1590554;1482697383;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo in exchange, one for you : https://worldisraelnews.com/watch-studio-wiped-out-by-fire-a-loss-to-art-history-especially-jewish-art/#comment-3027181877
1590555;1482697470;BingoBoingo;WTF, of course he's happy to "begin anew". All his old shit is gone and now he gets those sweet gentile insurance premiums.
1590556;1482697511;BingoBoingo;https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2016/12/21/what-the-hell-somali-american-goes-home-for-visit-to-somalia/
1590557;1482697527;mircea_popescu;was mostly for teh comments discussing you.
1590558;1482697554;mircea_popescu;"qntra the serene republic"
1590559;1482697641;*;BingoBoingo did not get to comments
1590560;1482697664;mircea_popescu;disqus is a pos ; but if you give it a day and a half eventually it jumps to the spot.
1590561;1482697762;*;BingoBoingo trying archive.is
1590562;1482697783;mircea_popescu;"I suspect old Bingo is something of a disinformation hoax."
1590563;1482697793;ben_vulpes;"in other word salad"
1590564;1482697807;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes he did say.
1590565;1482697858;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590439 << i read the original crapolade last year
1590566;1482697858;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 16:17 ben_vulpes: http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/1/211100-pure-randomness-extracted-from-two-poor-sources/fulltext << asciilifeform: in which the acm tells the world that fuckgoats was tin woman overkill
1590567;1482697860;ben_vulpes;nono, the diqsux comment
1590568;1482697887;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's mildly amusing to watch internet people act under a very earnest notion that the portion of any one thing that they ran across has, grace to half a minute's meditation, formed a complete and useful image in their heads.
1590569;1482697895;asciilifeform;theoretical boost of 1.5x of bitrate, in exchange for making the debiaser 1000x moar complex
1590570;1482697904;asciilifeform;guess who luuuuvvvs such item.
1590571;1482697907;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes just like the wiki page, "other salads"
1590572;1482697960;BingoBoingo;lol "I suspect old Bingo is something of a disinformation hoax.
1590573;1482697960;BingoBoingo;What I have found interesting is that the professed liberals only began reacting to it when I posed the possibility after 24 hours."
1590574;1482697987;mircea_popescu;yeah, you know, the professed liberals care!
1590575;1482698007;BingoBoingo;OMG Have these cucks never lulzd?
1590576;1482698024;mircea_popescu;it's hard out there for a cuck when tryina make da money for da lulz
1590577;1482698064;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform, mod6: subject of "making things 1000x more complex" i embarked on handling various conditions a v might encounter (missing pubkey, unsigned patch, mismatched hashes after a press...) and i daresay the volume of code must increase!
1590578;1482698084;ben_vulpes;"help" is the motherfucking dog whistle of the left
1590579;1482698095;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i must disagree
1590580;1482698107;ben_vulpes;(in re http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/your-app-isnt-helping-the-people-of-saudi-arabia-1790198445)
1590581;1482698113;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: no pubkey? seals dun count, unsealed patches -- invisible.
1590582;1482698116;asciilifeform;silently.
1590583;1482698123;asciilifeform;this is the correct behaviour.
1590584;1482698133;hanbot;ni3230R681ss
1590585;1482698139;asciilifeform;the only error condition is cyclic graph
1590586;1482698140;ben_vulpes;hanbot: lol again?
1590587;1482698153;Framedragger;BingoBoingo: "#trilema logs" href in http://qntra.net/about/ points to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/
1590588;1482698198;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i'm happy to implement post-patch hash checks
1590589;1482698201;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: mismatched postpress hash should be impossible if fuzz is properly killed.
1590590;1482698218;ben_vulpes;what guarantees have i of this "should"?
1590591;1482698232;asciilifeform;0 until we shoot gnupatch.
1590592;1482698237;ben_vulpes;mkthen
1590593;1482698257;mircea_popescu;lmao no moare random strings hanbot , we get it.
1590594;1482698257;BingoBoingo;Framedragger: ty fxd
1590595;1482698260;ben_vulpes;fwiw i have a full-killer sitting in my workdir, for release later
1590596;1482698272;ben_vulpes;fuzz*-killer
1590597;1482698280;ben_vulpes;'tis the obvious characters.
1590598;1482698311;mircea_popescu;what does this kill ?
1590599;1482698316;BingoBoingo;hanbot: pls to color code your keyboards
1590600;1482698320;hanbot;x_x
1590601;1482698340;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: only patch's fuzzy application, nothing more.
1590602;1482698347;mircea_popescu;ah right.
1590603;1482698362;mircea_popescu;anyway alf has it - there's no need to handle what you list other than by not using them
1590604;1482698389;ben_vulpes;sure
1590605;1482698432;ben_vulpes;sb-ext, and rail at me for using an implementation-dependent sub program library if you will, does not seem to signal error conditions when external programs exit with nonzero code
1590606;1482698469;ben_vulpes;so i'm writing some trivial conditions for when it does fail, which means handling eg missing gpg keys
1590607;1482698478;mircea_popescu;aite.
1590608;1482698519;ben_vulpes;the situation's a good example of the tension between writing code that does one thing really specifically well, and fits-in-head, vs a larger program that handles eg conditions and the concomittant complexity
1590609;1482698536;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: if it didn't pass error codes, how the hell did it  work to detect if sig was valid
1590610;1482698583;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: didja read it?
1590611;1482698660;ben_vulpes;i explicitly tested error code downstream of sb-ext. it's not that it "doesn't pass error codes" it's that error code is surfaced in the process struct that sb-ext:run-program returns
1590612;1482698694;ben_vulpes;i was a bit surprised that sb-ext:run-program did not signal a condition when the program so ran exited with something other than zero.
1590613;1482698731;BingoBoingo;https://www.rt.com/sport/371531-khl-team-soviet-anthem/
1590614;1482698737;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes to my eyes "the situation" ie, the developer's own private choice, illustrates the natural tendency of one to cruft up his workbench.
1590615;1482698833;ben_vulpes;i'll buy it
1590616;1482698881;ben_vulpes;any suggestions on where up the tree to nuke a branch and reduce complexity?
1590617;1482699175;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: not yet read
1590618;1482699220;asciilifeform;now i gotta wonder if anybody read, e.g., FUCKGOATS
1590619;1482699302;ben_vulpes;i've not yet
1590620;1482700736;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes just have it silenty discard all patches that aren't sealed properly for the narrow definition of properly neh ?
1590621;1482700796;asciilifeform;this is the only way where variant-wots work correctly, aha.
1590622;1482701786;ben_vulpes;i suppose there's no practical way around the patches and signatures sharing a prefix.
1590623;1482701800;mircea_popescu;does this hurt anything ?
1590624;1482701885;ben_vulpes;it costs in complexity, yes. could be argued that it is a very minimal cost, but i would still prefer to "pick any signature from .seals that verifies" instead of the by my read promisetronic "pick any signature whose filename contains the filename of the patch under verification"
1590625;1482702011;mircea_popescu;i don't get it. suppose you ran a maternity ward, would you go "adding nametags to the kids adds complexity, just send the mothers naked in a room fulla puppies let them pick which fit to their teat" ?
1590626;1482702053;mircea_popescu;i dunno how either the current method adds complexity (show this ?) or the alternative isn't rank insanity. why should i have to look at >1 seal to verify a patch ?
1590627;1482702179;mircea_popescu;(and please don't tell me your idea is that the reason room-fulla-puppies isn't how maternity wards are ran is because cunt runs on perl and most kids therefore fit to most teats.)
1590628;1482702201;ben_vulpes;i was holding that one in abeyence for lols
1590629;1482702228;ben_vulpes;also that mothers know which baby is theirs and a signature can't tell me which patch it belongs to
1590630;1482702273;ben_vulpes;look i'm pointing at a promisetronic bit of v and saying "hey look i think this is a bit floppy"
1590631;1482702276;ben_vulpes;if it's fine, whatever
1590632;1482702360;ben_vulpes;the naive o(n^2) calculation is to say "there is a signature for this patch" and not giving a shit about which signature, provided it corresponds to a key in .wot .
1590633;1482702423;ben_vulpes;in which i realize that to get code review in tmsr you have to paste it into irc one line at a time
1590634;1482702432;mircea_popescu;lolwut.
1590635;1482702438;ben_vulpes;naw, kiddin
1590636;1482702443;ben_vulpes;sorta
1590637;1482702470;mircea_popescu;anyway, the idea is maximum power for the user. a scheme whereby i am forced to check all seals for each patch dispowers me ; a system whereby i can always resolve each patch in at least 1 checks or however many i feel like doing empowers me.
1590638;1482702509;mircea_popescu;now, there's entirely nothing "promisetronic" about people providing seals named as their patches are named. if they fail to do this - their patch won't work.
1590639;1482702516;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/92-presumed-dead-as-russian-passenger-plane-headed-to-syria-crashes/ << Qntra - 92 Presumed Dead As Russian Passenger Plane Headed To Syria Crashes
1590640;1482702594;ben_vulpes;it is a small but worth-noting difference between "put yer patches in this here directory, your signatures in this other, and your pubkeys in this third".
1590641;1482702717;mircea_popescu;i guess it is.
1590642;1482702833;mircea_popescu;dude this is the exact plane that the poles died in
1590643;1482702849;mircea_popescu;what is with the tu154
1590644;1482702903;BingoBoingo;Popular plane, long production run.
1590645;1482702916;mircea_popescu;not that many still flying after 1990.
1590646;1482702934;BingoBoingo;Aeroflot didn't retire till 2010
1590647;1482702954;BingoBoingo;Apparently 51 still in service
1590648;1482702966;mircea_popescu;ouch/
1590649;1482703019;Framedragger;:( re. the ensemble
1590650;1482703047;mircea_popescu;anyway the jewish thing is proceeding nicely, israel no longer funding un bodies ; israel ministers no longer allowed to visit countries or meet officials from 14 list.
1590651;1482703059;Framedragger;unrelated; such heavy reliance on archive.is by qntra, irc forum et al. scares me. it seems to be doing ~fine and i like the owner's attitude (http://archive.is/faq), but 'someone' should make another one
1590652;1482703072;mircea_popescu;Framedragger no argument there.
1590653;1482703092;mircea_popescu;the problem of saving html soup well is hard ; phf announced working on it some time ago but i dunno how it goes.
1590654;1482703127;BingoBoingo;links are a courtesy, if html soup dies then it dies
1590655;1482703133;BingoBoingo;and the qntra remains
1590656;1482703144;BingoBoingo;At least until better situation comes
1590657;1482703152;BingoBoingo;brb, cookies
1590658;1482703199;mircea_popescu;Framedragger we do also have a scheme whereby we save the plain data and deedbot under consideration, but meh.
1590659;1482703280;Framedragger;mircea_popescu are you referring to the time-honoured "put some irc logs into deedbot" practice? :D (that i'd seen)
1590660;1482703298;mircea_popescu;"I knew Obama was looking to take sweet revenge against Israel and Netanyahu. Since he was elected in 2009, he was hostile to settlements and Netanyahu. He revealed his true face with an anti-Israel decision but Netanyahu and Israel will defeat him." << they very likely will, too.
1590661;1482703318;mircea_popescu;imagine, to go in trying to fight "world problems", to be fucked raw by putin and eventually defeated... by fucking israel.
1590662;1482703323;mircea_popescu;i could fart a larger country.
1590663;1482703336;mircea_popescu;Framedragger nah, it's in the logs, have an auto dld of links
1590664;1482703343;Framedragger;ah 'kay
1590665;1482704847;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590190 << ironclad claims to have a "pure lisp" implementation of rsa but i have not confirmed this for myself
1590666;1482704847;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 16:53 gabriel_laddel: common lisp rsa when
1590667;1482707042;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590417 << ok for posterity: the way you deal with this is, you just dd all of it to PC; then you dd again and compare checksums; if they don't match, drink, else, proceed: dd it to a new sd card, mount, and smile
1590668;1482707042;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 15:51 Framedragger: i don't suppose anyone here has messed with android 'adopted' storage? (use sd card as internal encrypted android storage.) i'm trying to recover files from a half-broken 32GB sd card which has weirdo android-internal partitions and encryption.. oh god
1590669;1482707147;Framedragger;if the latter does *not* work, you first make a noncommittal vow not to deal with android in the future, swear, drink a bit, and then proceed with aes key extraction as per http://nelenkov.blogspot.lt/2015/06/decrypting-android-m-adopted-storage.html ; you need to root phone, which may reset and wipe the device, so check if that's even possible to do; don't forget to drink. cloning worked for me. don't forget to drink.
1590670;1482707214;Framedragger;(and don't use 'adopted storage' in android in the future. it's stupid.)
1590671;1482708617;mircea_popescu;or for that matter, android.
1590672;1482709959;ben_vulpes;chaste hardware, promiscuous hardware
1590673;1482710300;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590665 << last i saw, it used openliquishit ffi
1590674;1482710300;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 22:27 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590190 << ironclad claims to have a "pure lisp" implementation of rsa but i have not confirmed this for myself
1590675;1482710378;ben_vulpes;well that'd be in stark contrast to the claim i remember
1590676;1482710400;ben_vulpes;in other hashing bafflements: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xaEPR/?raw=true
1590677;1482710410;asciilifeform;i have nfi, why not read the src, then tell us..
1590678;1482710427;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: perhaps someday
1590679;1482710450;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: lemme guess, it takes liberties with newlines
1590680;1482711544;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i'll investigate
1590681;1482711572;ben_vulpes;('it' == ironclad ?)
1590682;1482712257;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: kinda looks like it
1590683;1482714489;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CDE0EB6C581D23C4D24451A316CF43EFB241A22EA35B998B4CB6A7DC79AB7548 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2284...9293 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.138.153.12 (ssh-rsa key from 62.138.153.12 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ds62-138-153-12.dedicated.hosteurope.de. DE NW)
1590684;1482717027;phf;asciilifeform: for the record there's not a single line of ffi in ironclad. we've had this conversation before
1590685;1482717107;phf;it also has rsa, but ~rsa~ only, i.e. no openpgp containers, etc.
1590686;1482717176;phf;(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/froydnj/ironclad/master/src/public-key/rsa.lisp)
1590687;1482717848;phf;re "liberty with whitespace" there's something else going on. it's doing everything through unsigned-byte 8
1590688;1482718146;asciilifeform;phf: yer right re ssl
1590689;1482718171;asciilifeform;phf: but! why in satan's name does it hardcode sha1 for rsa verify
1590690;1482718206;asciilifeform; (let ((s (integer-to-octets (rsa-core (octets-to-integer signature)
1590691;1482718206;asciilifeform;                                              (rsa-key-exponent key) (rsa-key-modulus key))
1590692;1482718207;asciilifeform;                                    :n-bits nbits)))
1590693;1482718207;asciilifeform;          (pss-verify :sha1 (subseq msg start end) s)) ....
1590694;1482718270;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/732B6ECA80C1AFFFDBB3E4674BD145C574619E727D9424873C0639390EF2185E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1696...8387 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.214.63.41 (ssh-rsa key from 85.214.63.41 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (elpedro.org. DE BE)
1590695;1482718270;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DCB6B1F4EB07F9AF71DD622786C79F80F02682EFEFD3CFFC4A3949440C154772 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9461...8009 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.9.121 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.9.121 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590696;1482718270;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/66A1CED0DEFE3C7069D483AF7322FB725909DBDCDBBD55CA015687F600637935 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9461...8009 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.17.133 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.17.133 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590697;1482718445;*;phf nods
1590698;1482718740;mircea_popescu;to keep with gpg ?
1590699;1482719921;phf;ben_vulpes: according to master this is the reason http://glyf.org/tmp/ironclad-sha512.patch unsigned for obvious reasons
1590700;1482720102;asciilifeform;original author's hands grew from what place, that he released this
1590701;1482720111;phf;https://github.com/froydnj/ironclad/commit/83975c965392ae3ed940736c9f0f4921af4116ad
1590702;1482720117;mircea_popescu;i don't get it, this is the reason for what ?
1590703;1482720186;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590676
1590704;1482720186;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 00:00 ben_vulpes: in other hashing bafflements: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xaEPR/?raw=true
1590705;1482720197;mircea_popescu;and who the fuck uses sha512/384 already
1590706;1482720209;asciilifeform;512? v uses
1590707;1482720231;mircea_popescu;no, we use sha-2 512 not sha-2 384 do we
1590708;1482720246;asciilifeform;the former
1590709;1482720255;asciilifeform;afaik nobody uses 384
1590710;1482720259;mircea_popescu;well so then.
1590711;1482720290;mircea_popescu;i have nfi why it was even specified other than a love of bloat. all the bs 224 384 blabla does not belong. either you word allign or go away.
1590712;1482720301;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes above found catastrophic ?!?? in ironclad's sha512 tho.
1590713;1482720305;asciilifeform;see link.
1590714;1482720345;mircea_popescu;i see the link. i suspect variant sha512 implementations.
1590715;1482720420;asciilifeform;variant == buggy
1590716;1482720488;*;mircea_popescu reviews fips-180-2
1590717;1482720576;mircea_popescu;"The SHA-1 is used to compute a message digest for a message or data file that is provided as input. The message or data file should be considered to be a bit string. The length of the message is the number of bits in the message (the empty message has length 0). If the number of bits in a message is a multiple of 8, for compactness we can represent the message in hex. The purpose of message padding is to make the total lengt
1590718;1482720577;mircea_popescu;h of a padded message a multiple of 512. The SHA-1 sequentially processes blocks of 512 bits when computing the message digest. The following specifies how this padding shall be performed. As a summary, a "1" followed by m "0"s followed by a 64-bit integer are appended to the end of the message to produce a padded message of length 512 * n. The 64-bit integer is l, the length of the original message. The padded message is the
1590719;1482720578;mircea_popescu;n processed by the SHA-1 as n 512-bit blocks."
1590720;1482720602;mircea_popescu;there's no half byte anywhere in there, is there ?
1590721;1482720624;mircea_popescu;bah im reading the old one.
1590722;1482721049;mircea_popescu;check that out, there's no actual fips 180 past 1 published online. because why the fuck would there be. anyway, i can't source this "The SHA512/384 spec says that the final bit length of the message is to be stored as a 128-bit (!) integer at the end of the message." assertion. as best it can be determined the blocks are either 512 (for sanity) or 1024 bits (for 384 hmac etc)
1590723;1482721194;phf;nah, it's gotta be online
1590724;1482721202;phf;http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.180-4.pdf
1590725;1482721204;mircea_popescu;"pdf" != published.
1590726;1482721207;mircea_popescu;nope.
1590727;1482721216;phf;i see
1590728;1482721234;mircea_popescu;also if they "publish" it in klyngon, or in cuneiform, or etcetera. published means it works on computers.
1590729;1482721356;mircea_popescu;(in principle the off-bits versions, 299, 511, whatever monkey numbers should be merely truncated versions of the immediately above hash. but who even knows by now.)
1590730;1482723912;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/732B6ECA80C1AFFFDBB3E4674BD145C574619E727D9424873C0639390EF2185E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1669...1507 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.214.63.41 (ssh-rsa key from 85.214.63.41 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (elpedro.org. DE BE)
1590731;1482724487;phf;asciilifeform: http://www.method-combination.net/blog/archives/2014/12/29/ironclads-history.html in case you were wondering "how the fuck"
1590732;1482724573;phf;(i remember there being a standalone sha256 (?) version for sbcl, but i can't find it now. everything crypto that's coming up re lisp is ironclad.)
1590733;1482726582;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3C547879EB8BEF6913685CF454B6838C672E76BF3A08B6AD369EFF88F7A19F18 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1495...1457 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.252.69.242 (ssh-rsa key from 188.252.69.242 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host242-188-252-69.limes.com.pl. PL)
1590734;1482728169;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski you know ftr sourdough is supposed to be made at home.
1590735;1482729742;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i guess too busy making lasagna and quiche (like rest of tmsr!). homemade nanaimo bars too.
1590736;1482730274;pete_dushenski;http://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/history-of-nanaimo-bars/ << pretty sure this is a specifically canadian delicacy
1590737;1482730356;pete_dushenski;they're often either too sweet or too buttery but can be made to be quite tasty by savvy bakers.
1590738;1482730813;*;pete_dushenski is also spending holiday time shopping for boxen on which to run eulora because mac hack is more hassle than it's worth.
1590739;1482731319;pete_dushenski;this is only partially disappointing because i) no one ever said macs were computers anyways, and ii) who doesn't like new toys ?
1590740;1482731370;pete_dushenski;holy fuck are they cheap too. boxes that were $8k a decade ago are now cad$100. basically free.
1590741;1482732425;pete_dushenski;https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/bitstamp << shitstamp now at $700k/$1.6mn crowdscamming round valuing twocansandstring(tm) at... $81mn
1590742;1482732447;pete_dushenski;naturally, the deal is being sweetened : ""All those who invest in Bitstamp on the BnkToTheFuture platform before midnight 1 January (UTC -12) can now get 12 months of anti-dilution protection on their investment!"
1590743;1482732744;*;pete_dushenski to submit to food coma
1590744;1482741881;gabriel_laddel_p;0.o http://www.gaussian.com/g_prod/gv5b.htm
1590745;1482741931;gabriel_laddel_p;http://depth-first.com/articles/2011/10/12/sixty-four-free-chemistry-databases/
1590746;1482758601;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/04932FC1ACFE99163FD79A411203C1F1AC165455C084E904D53E7FCDFD25075F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.53 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.53 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590747;1482758601;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CB5B1D827EB358F0F3729E032D7CB87D3EB7925BA5FCABFF044D56049D522969 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.141 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.141 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590748;1482758601;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8A7228C2E48B65D9EE71CE8DB1B75FFE930507D56D82427E63D2AAEBE4D861FA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.171 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.171 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590749;1482758601;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F2CF15C86AB9208CBAFAF70C693E355F370A099512477D393A2A91F2CC050993 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.45 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.45 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590750;1482758601;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D378BAD01D73CD2FD529220969D6C281D90346F095AE86877ED4AFE868932B3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.33 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.33 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590751;1482759711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B8B57C5F1BF98E9F5867F51264E3E2C8496B2C3535035C974E8CBA411DCAE019 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2125...1951 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.172.155.140 (ssh-rsa key from 5.172.155.140 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (canary.ashbysoft.co.uk. GB)
1590752;1482759711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A77D6586C944EA2F8BF996CF3DC332D6D33F2427C580FE939989A62A138E7376 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590753;1482759711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/04932FC1ACFE99163FD79A411203C1F1AC165455C084E904D53E7FCDFD25075F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.53 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.53 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590754;1482759711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CB5B1D827EB358F0F3729E032D7CB87D3EB7925BA5FCABFF044D56049D522969 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.141 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.141 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590755;1482759711;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8A7228C2E48B65D9EE71CE8DB1B75FFE930507D56D82427E63D2AAEBE4D861FA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.171 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.171 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590756;1482759712;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F2CF15C86AB9208CBAFAF70C693E355F370A099512477D393A2A91F2CC050993 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.45 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.45 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590757;1482759712;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D378BAD01D73CD2FD529220969D6C281D90346F095AE86877ED4AFE868932B3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9435...9903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.33 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.33 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1590758;1482760251;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3C547879EB8BEF6913685CF454B6838C672E76BF3A08B6AD369EFF88F7A19F18 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2530...5181 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.252.69.242 (ssh-rsa key from 188.252.69.242 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host242-188-252-69.limes.com.pl. PL)
1590759;1482760887;shinohai;wow
1590760;1482765560;mircea_popescu;dat 8ball eh
1590761;1482765751;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590742 << and in typical fashion of the utterly imbecile "average joe", the idiots wish to opine about the viability of mpex, where no issuer EVER diluted, and say nice things about pure and simple scams with free dilution a la twocan exchange.
1590762;1482765751;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 06:07 pete_dushenski: naturally, the deal is being sweetened : ""All those who invest in Bitstamp on the BnkToTheFuture platform before midnight 1 January (UTC -12) can now get 12 months of anti-dilution protection on their investment!"
1590763;1482765779;mircea_popescu;then they wonder why the barriers in front of them are only going up. because seriously, who could POSSIBLY not want anything to do with idiots this idiotic. who! who!
1590764;1482765781;mircea_popescu;sigh,
1590765;1482766933;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590744 << what about it ? (it should perhaps be pointed out that at the scale involved, "visualising" is not necessarily a meaningful concept, not all the processes make any sense visually.)
1590766;1482766933;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 08:44 gabriel_laddel_p: 0.o http://www.gaussian.com/g_prod/gv5b.htm
1590767;1482767149;mircea_popescu;and in other great fence news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/84691d46a821b7caeaad28352f05878a/tumblr_obyaswxJoV1s3k2n4o1_1280.jpg
1590768;1482768115;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/45F8DFEE99404FC105C9786E8FFAAC2C1CEABFE51D06CB125AFE7AF4442D4CC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1520...0417 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.44.7.112 (ssh-rsa key from 82.44.7.112 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (112.7-44-82.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk. GB)
1590769;1482768115;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B8B57C5F1BF98E9F5867F51264E3E2C8496B2C3535035C974E8CBA411DCAE019 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1357...8833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.172.155.140 (ssh-rsa key from 5.172.155.140 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (canary.ashbysoft.co.uk. GB)
1590770;1482771889;mircea_popescu;in other news, holy shit the white house interiors are an abomination. there's flea markets more tastefully arranged by the process of randomly unloading vans what the fuck.
1590771;1482772266;mircea_popescu;and in other lulz : jonathan pollard, a guy who stole and sold (to israle, and to others) all sorts of holies of the usg (including the nsa's utterly ridiculous 5k page manual on "how to conduct signals intelligence" - no part of which is actually useful in practice much like satoshi's bitcoin miner code is not used by any actual bitcoin miners) was released in 2015 (with much gnashing of teeth, because back whgen he was conv
1590772;1482772266;mircea_popescu;icted, life imprisonment meant 30 years).
1590773;1482772352;mircea_popescu;the usgians of course don't want him to be released, so they have this parole thing where he can't leave the us "for five years" and "can't use internet or give interviews" etc. the stance was challenged a few months ago on the correct basis that "nothing he stole or could have stolen 30 years ago is still secret today". nevertheless clapper chose to perjure himself by swearing for the judge that on the contrary, the usg actu
1590774;1482772352;mircea_popescu;ally has secret information.
1590775;1482772391;mircea_popescu;the judge ate it, of course, but let it be pointed out this is so fucking ridiculous as to defy any reason. there is NO information privy to the USG that is secret from the world, except by case of obscurity.
1590776;1482776158;Framedragger;is there a tmsr keyserver, in the sense of one being able to link to a gpg fingerprint known to WoT, as a permalink?
1590777;1482776197;Framedragger;i mean, a way to request full public key, with some stable/deterministic permalink url format.
1590778;1482776205;Framedragger;(would be useful)
1590779;1482776668;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/REBTl/?raw=true
1590780;1482776680;mircea_popescu;Framedragger phuctor's best we got atm.
1590781;1482776696;ben_vulpes;trinque: ^^
1590782;1482776751;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: there is
1590783;1482776780;ben_vulpes;!!key trinque
1590784;1482776783;deedbot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/6Q6TW/?raw=true
1590785;1482776828;ben_vulpes;but it is not httptronic
1590786;1482776924;mircea_popescu;and it's not deterministic url.
1590787;1482776948;*;mircea_popescu imagined everyone knows about that owing to his constant usage.
1590788;1482778272;BingoBoingo;ty
1590789;1482778496;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/btc38-does-buterin-inspired-rollback-after-api-keys-compromised/ << Qntra - BTC38 Does Buterin Inspired "Rollback" After API Keys Compromised
1590790;1482779010;shinohai;BingoBoingo: the text is the same as the article I submitted earlier?
1590791;1482779103;BingoBoingo;AH, fuck too many pastes!
1590792;1482779283;*;BingoBoingo though it was weird mp would submit altcoin followup
1590793;1482779306;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/the-honorable-royce-c-lamberth-of-the-us-district-court-of-washington-dc-declares-end-of-united-states-sovereignity-for-representing-a-moral-depravity-that-knows-no-bounds-having-no-place-in-civilis/ << Qntra - The Honorable Royce C. Lamberth of the US District Court of Washington DC declares end of United States sovereignity for representing a moral depravity that knows no bounds, having no place in civilised society and deservi
1590794;1482780342;mircea_popescu;win.
1590795;1482782481;phf;ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=veh i renamed it, because right now all patches live in a global namespace. i'm not yte sure if i want to change that
1590796;1482782529;phf;it follows the existing naming convention of thing-genesis with "genesis" reserved for trb
1590797;1482783722;mircea_popescu;incidentally, patches currently can be arbitrarily renamed with no visible effects is it ?
1590798;1482784047;Framedragger;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161226/#111 << k, thanks. not altogether bad.
1590799;1482784048;scriba;Logged on 2016-12-26: [18:24:39] <mircea_popescu> Framedragger phuctor's best we got atm.
1590800;1482784067;Framedragger;ben_vulpes what mp said; yeah it's useful, but knowable-beforehand http endpoint has its merits :)
1590801;1482784175;mircea_popescu;note that because of alf's more complex hashing scheme you actually get closer to "permanent" urls than the imperial key servers can get.
1590802;1482788599;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590786 << merry festivus
1590803;1482788599;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 18:28 mircea_popescu: and it's not deterministic url.
1590804;1482788602;trinque;!!key trinque
1590805;1482788602;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4.asc
1590806;1482788624;trinque;could as easily switch to asciilifeform's hashing scheme. is it described somewhere?
1590807;1482789402;Framedragger;trinque: jeeee that's cool!!
1590808;1482789418;Framedragger;trinque: yes it's described in holy code form here: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/crap-from-scans-to-be-sorted/phuctor-fp.py
1590809;1482789583;Framedragger;(this is alf's code, to be clear)
1590810;1482789629;trinque;ty
1590811;1482789952;Framedragger;(so, hash of modulus and concat(userstring, "; ") it seems)
1590812;1482790183;trinque;asciilifeform: will this hash format be something meaningful once folks switch to using P for RSA ?
1590813;1482790537;mircea_popescu;trinque o hey not bad
1590814;1482790553;mircea_popescu;may be an idea to use the same scheme yes.
1590815;1482790617;Framedragger;imho hash format makes sense - it's just modulus and arbitrary 'user' field. dunno if it's still wanted to just have e,N,comment but if so, comment could be userstring in terms of mapping fingerprints to new rsa format.
1590816;1482790802;mircea_popescu;would work. moreover the scheme is flexible enough to allow for later extension
1590817;1482790816;mircea_popescu;(if "userstring" is redefined to be for eg "a";"b" items nothing breaks.)
1590818;1482791110;Framedragger;quite! i'd say it's flexible and elegant (in terms of minimal complexity) enough
1590819;1482791156;Framedragger;in P, alf wants to have hashing func etc be defined within the key itself. but maybe all that is not relevant for the purposes of a universal fingerprint scheme.
1590820;1482791404;Framedragger;(well, the scheme as proposed does use a particular hashing func (sha256), so that part is contestable i suppose.)
1590821;1482791407;mircea_popescu;in principle the e, N part can be arbitrarily lengthy, with the semantizating convention that "e" represents "settings" and N represents "values". should be perfectly possible to describe any future key in these terms irrespective of cryptosystem.
1590822;1482791433;Framedragger;right!
1590823;1482791445;mircea_popescu;ie, if P uses 8 boolean flags and 31 one byte settings then e can be a 32 byte value
1590824;1482791446;Framedragger;"contents and parameters for those contents"
1590825;1482791522;Framedragger;(one more note, even if alf or sb protests use of particular hashing func for fingerprint scheme, the fact of the matter is that one does kind of require for a universal fingerprinting scheme to exist.)
1590826;1482791538;Framedragger;kind of require the use of one*
1590827;1482792219;jurov;have you considered using N alone as the ID? or it's impractically long?
1590828;1482792608;Framedragger;alf did say that http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-23#1572696 ...
1590829;1482792609;a111;Logged on 2016-11-23 16:14 asciilifeform: 'key fingerprint' is a broken concept.
1590830;1482792641;Framedragger;iirc 'user' field was needed as multiple different keys belonging to different users may have same N
1590831;1482792653;Framedragger;but then again, perhaps in tmsr-semantics, it *is* the same key :)
1590832;1482792692;jurov;there are some other semantics where it's considered different key?
1590833;1482792696;*;jurov curious
1590834;1482792731;Framedragger;well. for one, it's nice if you can distinguish between different keyholders, no? in the particular case of ssh-rsa keys, "which ip used this key?"
1590835;1482792750;Framedragger;if fingerprint == N, it cannot distinguish between different referents, so to speak
1590836;1482792861;Framedragger;all this while acknowledging that if you have same N, you have, *for practical purposes*, same key. but maybe i've messed it up in my head.
1590837;1482792962;Framedragger;(so i don't know. maybe 'keyholder' is really not a property of a key. which i guess it isn't; so maybe i'm just generating noise)
1590838;1482792977;jurov;and what are you actually building here? what is the cause? to make ornithological observations "this key was spotted at address X at time Y" or something?
1590839;1482792987;jurov;you surely know at least this
1590840;1482793054;jurov;i was thinking we're in keyserver context, not ^ this
1590841;1482793066;Framedragger;original query re permalinks for WoT keys was a practical use case of being able to point someone to a key in WoT
1590842;1482793085;Framedragger;contexts inevitably switched when 'fingerprinting scheme' discussion enters
1590843;1482793134;Framedragger;but you're right, i suppose i have ornithology in mind here, which is not relevant. that's a separate thing, really. it's exactly an observation which shows an association (key <-> holder at some point in time).
1590844;1482793176;jurov;I hope the answer to "two distinct people in wot having the same N" is clear.
1590845;1482793208;Framedragger;with regards to keyserver, my use of them makes me biased in the sense of thinking of keys as necessarily having user IDs in them. "key has some particular holder". not really the case i guess :)
1590846;1482793236;Framedragger;right.. "it's the same person, for our purposes."
1590847;1482793323;jurov;to say it from another angle, you don't (and can't) have persons in the database. it's all just a key with some tags attached, not the other way around
1590848;1482793367;Framedragger;thanks for clarifying... so then it's just the same key. and things like 'IP of this key' really is a separate matter. (it was put into gpg user field as a matter of convenience of course.) should have been obvious...
1590849;1482793368;Framedragger;right!
1590850;1482793501;Framedragger;i guess one may have a database of keys, as well as a table of signed-with-key nicknames which establish someone claiming a nickname for key? sort of gns. alternative scheme is to have any kind of aliasing be local, as per gossipd. less convenient for things like looking up nickname in wot.deedbot.org of course.
1590851;1482793730;jurov;that's up to you how you normalize it. i see three levels - the public key itself (N), any additional information needed to verify signatures (e), and everything else
1590852;1482793888;Framedragger;right, makes sense, and nice breakdown.
1590853;1482795927;shinohai;!!trilema 838E50C4AE5BAB4067827E49C62FE266448F4691791B561A69425F5F85313FDF
1590854;1482795941;shinohai;derp
1590855;1482795946;shinohai;!!v 838E50C4AE5BAB4067827E49C62FE266448F4691791B561A69425F5F85313FDF
1590856;1482795946;deedbot;shinohai updated rating of diana_coman from 1 to 2 << Eulora trades always fair and fortunate.
1590857;1482803053;mircea_popescu;Framedragger you're going towards the republican dns / unified name registry thing
1590858;1482803193;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/048B2ADC130913694F26D5D5F6806A4D3EB09C457CFEF2ABA6F2308E5F9D77CE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1792...6599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.122.213.109 (ssh-rsa key from 195.122.213.109 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.medialine-team.cz. CZ)
1590859;1482803193;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4C069238F55B83EA0C0E4D794CEB2CEAC8CA65310C4307162E12EC92B1B50619 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2413...5243 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '190.3.92.251 (ssh-rsa key from 190.3.92.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.gbapro.com.ar. AR C)
1590860;1482803194;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/45F8DFEE99404FC105C9786E8FFAAC2C1CEABFE51D06CB125AFE7AF4442D4CC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1688...6157 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.44.7.112 (ssh-rsa key from 82.44.7.112 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (112.7-44-82.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk. GB)
1590861;1482805480;mod6;evenin'
1590862;1482805488;mircea_popescu;hola mod6
1590863;1482805506;mod6;how goes?
1590864;1482805647;mircea_popescu;great actually.
1590865;1482805669;mod6;nice :]
1590866;1482805678;mircea_popescu;hehe. how about mn ?
1590867;1482805960;mod6;good!  it warmed back up and we had a thunderstorm lastnight. crazy.
1590868;1482805968;mircea_popescu;nice
1590869;1482805970;mod6;just workin on these v changes
1590870;1482805987;mod6;mainly anyway.
1590871;1482808323;mircea_popescu;and in other teachable moments, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6ef391758bb0bd96c99fb35895f358a5/tumblr_nd1md1koxb1tgearyo1_1280.jpg
1590872;1482809011;mod6;lol, that kid in the background is really happy to be there.
1590873;1482809855;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4C069238F55B83EA0C0E4D794CEB2CEAC8CA65310C4307162E12EC92B1B50619 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1527...3287 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '190.3.92.251 (ssh-rsa key from 190.3.92.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.gbapro.com.ar. AR C)
1590874;1482809855;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/048B2ADC130913694F26D5D5F6806A4D3EB09C457CFEF2ABA6F2308E5F9D77CE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1778...8673 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.122.213.109 (ssh-rsa key from 195.122.213.109 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.medialine-team.cz. CZ)
1590875;1482810411;ben_vulpes;ah, home sweet home
1590876;1482810670;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590731 << i think maybe back away slowly from ironclad lest it blow up in my face then
1590877;1482810670;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 03:54 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.method-combination.net/blog/archives/2014/12/29/ironclads-history.html in case you were wondering "how the fuck"
1590878;1482810678;ben_vulpes;thank you phf
1590879;1482810741;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590795 << nifty, thank you again
1590880;1482810741;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 20:01 phf: ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=veh i renamed it, because right now all patches live in a global namespace. i'm not yte sure if i want to change that
1590881;1482810819;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590797 << aye, although per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590640 you'll need to rename your seals as well
1590882;1482810820;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 20:22 mircea_popescu: incidentally, patches currently can be arbitrarily renamed with no visible effects is it ?
1590883;1482810820;a111;Logged on 2016-12-25 21:49 ben_vulpes: it is a small but worth-noting difference between "put yer patches in this here directory, your signatures in this other, and your pubkeys in this third".
1590884;1482812071;mircea_popescu;yes, of couars.
1590885;1482814078;ben_vulpes;have we done "sha512sum will not omit filenames from output" yet?
1590886;1482814442;mircea_popescu;mno.
1590887;1482815272;ben_vulpes;well i can't seem to get it to and now we have
1590888;1482816225;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590808 << ftr i will say that i heavily disrecomment the use of this or anything like it
1590889;1482816225;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 21:56 Framedragger: trinque: yes it's described in holy code form here: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/crap-from-scans-to-be-sorted/phuctor-fp.py
1590890;1482816260;asciilifeform;the linked item was made for a specific, narrow purpose, for butterfly collection of pgp keys as-found-in-the-wild.
1590891;1482816289;asciilifeform;where two keys where 1 byte of the selfsigned text (e.g., username string) differs, are to be considered distinct
1590892;1482816319;asciilifeform;i see no particular reason to justify its use for anything else, and in particular for any future thing.
1590893;1482816413;asciilifeform;and there is NO and can NOT be such a thing as a 'sane key fingerprint.' see thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-23#1572717
1590894;1482816413;a111;Logged on 2016-11-23 16:18 asciilifeform: global indices of 'memorable' names, or 'safely' shortened rsa pubkeys, are promisetronic.
1590895;1482816428;asciilifeform;the only sane 'fingerprint' is the entire modulus+exponent.
1590896;1482816482;asciilifeform;anything else puts a megatonne of weight on one single hash, a titanic reward for finding one single solitary collision, hashes (which are voodoo, in all variants, see friday's thread) are not built to withstand this kind of pressure.
1590897;1482816527;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590885 << from where did you think the awk in 'vdiff' came from.
1590898;1482816527;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 04:47 ben_vulpes: have we done "sha512sum will not omit filenames from output" yet?
1590899;1482816537;asciilifeform;it is precisely to strip away the crapolade.
1590900;1482816620;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590789 << where the hell did this go ?
1590901;1482816620;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 18:54 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/btc38-does-buterin-inspired-rollback-after-api-keys-compromised/ << Qntra - BTC38 Does Buterin Inspired "Rollback" After API Keys Compromised
1590902;1482816623;asciilifeform;it isn't there.
1590903;1482816657;asciilifeform;imho deedbot 'here's breaking news' followed by 404, is a fail
1590904;1482816667;asciilifeform;if it got retracted -- print retraction.
1590905;1482816671;asciilifeform;don't 'forbes' it.
1590906;1482816743;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590744 << fwiw i did this for a living, for years. about as much joy as mining coal.
1590907;1482816743;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 08:44 gabriel_laddel_p: 0.o http://www.gaussian.com/g_prod/gv5b.htm
1590908;1482816782;asciilifeform;with the difference that coal actually exists, whereas 'in silico screening' typically yields rubbish.
1590909;1482817012;mircea_popescu;gotta try eh.
1590910;1482817062;mircea_popescu;and in psycho news today, http://68.media.tumblr.com/968a20d479625db9f92f95f798431466/tumblr_odudrrpvSo1vf83ojo10_1280.jpg
1590911;1482818538;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: it was qntra'd
1590912;1482818540;ben_vulpes;er
1590913;1482818541;ben_vulpes;archived
1590914;1482818562;ben_vulpes;http://archive.is/Gl0Al
1590915;1482818660;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: this does not answer the wtf question
1590916;1482818723;ben_vulpes;no, no
1590917;1482818741;ben_vulpes;in oooother lols, at least bing puts trilema on the first page of results when i search by article title
1590918;1482818773;ben_vulpes;at this rate the kids will actually stop using google, as it doesn't show porn, point them towards pirated content or you know actually work at all anymore
1590919;1482818867;mircea_popescu;google doesn't do this ?!
1590920;1482818926;mats;works for me
1590921;1482818934;mircea_popescu;!~google Slavery : the best thing for you. No, seriously.
1590922;1482818935;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Slavery : the best thing for you . No, seriously . on Trilema - A blog by ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/slavery-the-best-thing-for-you-no-seriously/>
1590923;1482819118;ben_vulpes;!~google the problem of too much money
1590924;1482819119;jhvh1;ben_vulpes: The Problem of Too Much Money | Bplans: <http://articles.bplans.com/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Why Too Much Money is Worse than Too Little | OPEN Forum: <http://www.openforum.com/articles/why-too-much-money-is-worse-than-too-little-1/>; What problems tend to come out of having too much money ? - Quora: <https://www.quora.com/What-problems-tend-to-come-out-of-having-too-much-money>
1590925;1482819147;ben_vulpes;also https://www.google.com/search?q=the%20problem%20of%20too%20much%20money
1590926;1482819238;ben_vulpes;i feel a great disturbance in the force, as though a thousand seo experts were suddenly rousted from sweet slumber
1590927;1482819572;mircea_popescu;lol
1590928;1482819582;mircea_popescu;!~google "the problem of too much money"
1590929;1482819584;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: The Problem of Too Much Money | Bplans: <http://articles.bplans.com/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Why Too Much Money is Worse than Too Little | OPEN Forum: <http://www.openforum.com/articles/why-too-much-money-is-worse-than-too-little-1/>; What problems tend to come out of having too much money ? - Quora: <https://www.quora.com/What-problems-tend-to-come-out-of-having-too-much-mone
1590930;1482819592;mircea_popescu;wheird!
1590931;1482819606;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> if it got retracted -- print retraction. << Twas a dupe
1590932;1482819645;asciilifeform;hm ok
1590933;1482819648;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i r guess in some cases trilema titles are too trite.
1590934;1482819695;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i have a bit of allergic reaction to seeing live articles turn to 404, i admit.
1590935;1482819748;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/12/chinese-altcoin-exchange-btc38-serves-1-5-million-rmb-of-your-loss/ << Original. In processing mp's submission I got jumbled juggling text blocks, though dupe was an update on earlier shinohai story.
1590936;1482819773;BingoBoingo;I'll probably figure out a redirect
1590937;1482820124;ben_vulpes;"just install a plugin!"
1590938;1482820216;ben_vulpes;oh hey i don't think we did the auttomatic pr plant: http://www.forbes.com/sites/montymunford/2016/12/22/how-wordpress-ate-the-internet-in-2016-and-the-world-in-2017/
1590939;1482820564;mircea_popescu;hahaah what.
1590940;1482820967;mircea_popescu;did it buy russia yet ?
1590941;1482827470;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/how-to-learn-programming << CH - "How To Learn Programming"
1590942;1482838325;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/how-to-learn-programming/comment-page-1#comment-95
1590943;1482838466;Framedragger;s/which can/who can/ but w/e
1590944;1482839163;Framedragger;it seems that tor main folx were banned from presenting at CCC this year (it's tradition that they normally do it every year), allegedly due to the appelbaum debacle..
1590945;1482839255;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590857 << i guess so. i also guess that gns/gossipd are competing paradigms in terms of namespace / choosing how to name things. but they can also be orthogonal, i'd think..
1590946;1482839255;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 01:44 mircea_popescu: Framedragger you're going towards the republican dns / unified name registry thing
1590947;1482844562;mircea_popescu;hardly competing. just because item b depending on item a for part of its job may end up having to implement a doesn't mean b competes with a.
1590948;1482846639;mircea_popescu;i suppose in a forgotten sense this is actually what "competing" means ; walk is "leg competitive" in the sense that the movement of one drags/forces/impels the movement of the other ; tissue growth is competitive in the sense that conjunctive growth drives medular growth and medular growth drives conjunctive growth ; the very chinese (these days) "barracks area B planted roses, can we from barracks area C allow ourselves to
1590949;1482846639;mircea_popescu;fall behind them" version of mutual driving would historically be what competition meant. this mutual-inhibition style of competition where "we all try kissing girls when we're 7, then those who don't manage having been outcompeted by those who did manage retire to kiss playstations" is novel.
1590950;1482846745;mircea_popescu;hence why it's even fucking called "competition", from latin for "to strive together", competere. same com as in commune.
1590951;1482846804;mircea_popescu;o wow look at this, etymolone.com has it! "Rare 17c., revived from late 18c. in sense "to strive (alongside another) for the attainment of something" and regarded early 19c. in Britain as a Scottish or American word. Market sense is from 1840s (perhaps a back-formation from competition); athletics sense attested by 1857." is exactly correct for once.
1590952;1482846868;*;mircea_popescu is impressed positively in a good way.
1590953;1482847125;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F30A4781829EA11A88B47D270FB5A09CD0E322A9A0B1468234CD8F9A70B658C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2167...4427 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.23.91.197 (ssh-rsa key from 212.23.91.197 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (office.render.ur.ru. RU SVE)
1590954;1482848208;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes which one is a "modal" ? "carousel" is that stupid shit when pics keep scrolling like a 2.0 version of <marquee> right
1590955;1482849916;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: noted, re. notion of 'competition'.
1590956;1482849920;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, i've had trilema changed so that it publishes a "random" header each day out of my apparently extensive collection of 32! different ones.
1590957;1482849949;mircea_popescu;works on the basis of decimal(hash(date string)) mod banner count.
1590958;1482849962;jurov;;;calc 32!
1590959;1482850032;jurov;:)
1590960;1482850063;mircea_popescu;lol
1590961;1482850203;mircea_popescu;anyway, i think it's poetic, like a month that keeps increasing in day count as i add more pictures. a sort of bizarre astronomy of a planet that slowly distances itself from the sun thereby decelerating and thereby more and more earth days are needed to complete its monthly cycle.
1590962;1482850231;mircea_popescu;currently, trilema month stands at 32 days, and there's 11.40 of them / year
1590963;1482851383;mircea_popescu;https://archive.is/ARvk3 << in other lulz,. apparently i broke it.
1590964;1482851705;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2016/12/27/2
1590965;1482851839;Framedragger;IV length unchecked when allocating memory for IV, amazing.......
1590966;1482851853;mircea_popescu;it's amaaaaazing
1590967;1482851861;mircea_popescu;when in the blink of an eye you suddenly know it's fucked
1590968;1482851864;mircea_popescu;it's amaaaaazing
1590969;1482851870;mircea_popescu;and i'm saying a prayer
1590970;1482851873;mircea_popescu;for the desperate hearts
1590971;1482851875;mircea_popescu;tooooonight!
1590972;1482851941;mircea_popescu;why does "Apparently this issue is fixed on pycrypto's development branch with commit 8dbe0dc3eea5c689d4f76b37b93fe216cf1f00d4, but this change can't be applied directly to the latest pycrypto release tarball; too much has changed." not read "we should have fucking written it all in v last year" is anyone's guess.
1590973;1482851950;asciilifeform;why the livingfuck is there even c in 'pycrypto'..?!
1590974;1482851977;Framedragger;there are some reasons for it i suppose? avoid timing side channels etc
1590975;1482852007;Framedragger;(branch prediction side channels etc, dunno how feasible in the context of application using pycrypto..)
1590976;1482852057;asciilifeform;eh you can 'don't return until M msec passed' can be done even in a scripting lang
1590977;1482852061;Framedragger;(also effffffficiency)
1590978;1482852082;mircea_popescu;i don't think alf understands how the world works.
1590979;1482852086;Framedragger;aha, but you assume that python timers are anything but inaccurate :p (but yesyes..)
1590980;1482852115;mircea_popescu;nobody fucking wants to REPLACE anything. they're just building an open society where everything can live side by side blind to any considerations of identity or heritage.
1590981;1482852121;asciilifeform;Framedragger: you round to whatever unit it is accurate to. minutes, hours, weeks, watever
1590982;1482852124;mircea_popescu;OF COURSE there's going to be c code in python, what, are you racist ?
1590983;1482852135;mircea_popescu;the legacy bdb is still in trb TO THIS DAY
1590984;1482852141;Framedragger;asciilifeform: right, right
1590985;1482852204;mircea_popescu;meanwhile back at disrupt camp hackathon, http://68.media.tumblr.com/2ccf69e8583719c685f52d6405feaaf8/tumblr_mu768n3kfb1sz40t4o1_1280.jpg
1590986;1482852623;asciilifeform;speaking of timing attack: it also worx great on oaep and all similar (hashtronic) rsa 'padding' systems...
1590987;1482852717;mircea_popescu;incidentally, there must also be a "timing" attack that relies not on time but on properties of integers. and no i don't mean birthday attack - if your hashing is an arithmetic process then necessarily the fundamental fact that "primes count is log integers count" in some sort of restatement is going to bite you somewhere.
1590988;1482852733;mircea_popescu;at least in my head this is the deep reason alf's hatred of arithmetic transfgorms makes sense to me.
1590989;1482852751;mircea_popescu;(and no, the above truth isn't "about primes" anymore than the golden section is "about a4 paper".)
1590990;1482854438;asciilifeform;it is not about primes at all, aha, but about the ancient proverb where 'you can't hide an awl in a sack'
1590991;1482854462;mircea_popescu;aha.
1590992;1482854489;mircea_popescu;sooner or later the teeth show.
1590993;1482855295;BingoBoingo;Redirect never took, post restored with text in <blockquote> tags
1590994;1482855398;mircea_popescu;hm pretty sure there must be an option for redirects somewhere.
1590995;1482855417;Framedragger;there's a wp plugin but maybe policy against such works of satan
1590996;1482855455;BingoBoingo;Plugins that demand access to htaccess are a no-no
1590997;1482855501;BingoBoingo;but otherwise wordpress fights redirect and drops 404 page
1590998;1482855507;Framedragger;i don't know if redirection plugin does that. if you mean that a plugin would add a new line to htaccess then yeah that's retarded. don't think that's how it works
1590999;1482855615;BingoBoingo;Framedragger: You would be amazed what plugins want.
1591000;1482855690;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590973 << hah, pycrypto is ~all~ c. python has this ffi mechanism, where import can work on an .so and there are standard hooks for registering/providing python object equivalents from your c code. in this case i don't think there's a single python line in pycrypto at all
1591001;1482855690;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 15:19 asciilifeform: why the livingfuck is there even c in 'pycrypto'..?!
1591002;1482855697;Framedragger;BingoBoingo https://wordpress.org/plugins/simple-301-redirects/ << iirc what we use at work
1591003;1482855751;*;BingoBoingo might look, but assumes when it says 301 redirect it means actual apache 301
1591004;1482855764;Framedragger;no doesn't use htaccess just checked
1591005;1482855767;Framedragger;stores redirects in wp db
1591006;1482855778;Framedragger;not saying that it's amazing or anything, wp eww
1591007;1482855793;phf;~proper~ ffi in a form of ctypes and "(we exist in own bubble!1) CFFI" has only been added really recently. maybe 5-10 years
1591008;1482855929;Framedragger;BingoBoingo: it's a single php file, relatively elegant i'd say. the logic is in redirect() (line 212 on v1.07 of plugin) if you want to verify lack of satan. seems ~relatively harmless but i no wp plugin masta
1591009;1482855947;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F30A4781829EA11A88B47D270FB5A09CD0E322A9A0B1468234CD8F9A70B658C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1448...3223 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.23.91.197 (ssh-rsa key from 212.23.91.197 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (office.render.ur.ru. RU SVE)
1591010;1482856010;Framedragger;phf: given this, would you even say that what pycrypto does is evil, i wonder.. i mean if it uses ctypes ~properly
1591011;1482856288;phf;i wouldn't say it's evil nor not evil
1591012;1482856341;phf;just to clarify it doesn't use ctypes, it's using the old https://docs.python.org/2/extending/extending.html api. which i suspect is faster, since you're constructing python objects immediately, rather than across the ffi boundry the way ctypes/CFFI would have to naturally do it
1591013;1482856444;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590975 << i know pycrypto sits on the wire in some of the twisted code, so side channel attacks are definite possibility. (however realistic they are in the wild)
1591014;1482856444;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 15:20 Framedragger: (branch prediction side channels etc, dunno how feasible in the context of application using pycrypto..)
1591015;1482856532;Framedragger;ah, i see kk re. ctypes vs the older interface..
1591016;1482856576;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you happen to have link to original discussion of older us male who goes to orcland under delusion of being roman army veteran, gets used as cattle by locals ?
1591017;1482856760;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
1591018;1482856760;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 03:51 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590731 << i think maybe back away slowly from ironclad lest it blow up in my face then
1591019;1482856815;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-10#949583 << not quite it, but the only mention i turned up in the l0gz
1591020;1482856815;a111;Logged on 2014-12-10 00:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article (or perhaps a thread here? but can't seem to find it...) about an archetypical u.s. expat. fellow keeps a pub somewhere in thailand, or cambodia, etc. the locals - drink for free. he fancies that if he begins to run out of dough, he can always start charging. but somehow in the back of his head he knows what will happen to his sorry arse if he were to do so.
1591021;1482856833;mircea_popescu;yeah that.
1591022;1482856850;mircea_popescu;well, good enough, i'll use it.
1591023;1482856869;mircea_popescu;fancy we're at the sad stage of decay where i am going to use a vague memory of another as to something i myself said as a reference point.
1591024;1482856873;mircea_popescu;strabo never had it this good.
1591025;1482857108;BingoBoingo;!~bash 3
1591026;1482857108;jhvh1;Last 3 lines bashed and pending publication
1591027;1482857565;mircea_popescu;and in other well behaved party girls, http://68.media.tumblr.com/79ac8c9145897f1d57cd64858a723b0e/tumblr_odf7sfDuCf1qa7pxgo1_400.gif
1591028;1482858197;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/handled-badly/ << Trilema - Handled ; badly.
1591029;1482858670;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << since theme of the day appears to be sidechanneling, commonlisptrons lacking a separate cons pool for crypto ops, noncacheability hints, etc. are ripe for the treatment
1591030;1482858670;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 16:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
1591031;1482858796;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes pray tell why do you recommed unity in favour of eulora ? eulora bots exist as a matter of fact, with people hacking on them and repl-ing the results after a 10 minute compile. what equivalent to this does unity offer ?
1591032;1482858823;mircea_popescu;and plox do not tell me "i just assumed it does because it is the usg.this-thing and i automatically assume the usg.this-thing in all cases and for all things offers".)
1591033;1482858992;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591029 << that's already been mentioned in the blog post i linked you
1591034;1482858992;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 17:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << since theme of the day appears to be sidechanneling, commonlisptrons lacking a separate cons pool for crypto ops, noncacheability hints, etc. are ripe for the treatment
1591035;1482859111;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: no repl but it's very easy to get things going in unity. though i found it to be clunky in the sense of not being able to contain simple project in one's head, as you have to look at parameters around the IDE/project as well as source code (parts of which are 'attached' to objects). but it's very usable.
1591036;1482859139;mircea_popescu;did you just say "it doesn't work but it's the usg.offer for the space and therefore it must be respected" ?
1591037;1482859139;*;Framedragger will try eulora botting one day
1591038;1482859153;mircea_popescu;"meanwhile actual life can wait on the shelf forever"
1591039;1482859167;Framedragger;you can build complex shit fast there. that's a thing.
1591040;1482859172;mircea_popescu;show me.
1591041;1482859180;Framedragger;fuck
1591042;1482859193;Framedragger;i'll link to tutorials i went thru in a sec
1591043;1482859196;mircea_popescu;you can't EVEN GET IT RUNNING today. forget build anything.
1591044;1482859210;Framedragger;really
1591045;1482859247;Framedragger;http://catlikecoding.com/unity/tutorials/ << some nice shit. granted, not the same as me showing something impressive
1591046;1482859280;Framedragger;(not really complex, tho. but you get moving *fast*)
1591047;1482859293;Framedragger;unless latest unity is really broken and all-too-usg, in which case, okay :(
1591048;1482859359;mircea_popescu;srsly, compare to eg danielpbarron 's implementing of the "drunk" method. http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-drunken-explorer/
1591049;1482859411;mircea_popescu;every method can in principle be *fast* from a certain perspective, horseback travel is blazing cca 1100. but for making a clock appled my time budget does not exceed a quarter hour nor am i willing to do much more than A COUPLA LINES!
1591050;1482859479;mircea_popescu;wtf srsly, THIS looks acceptable to you ?
1591051;1482859480;mircea_popescu;using UnityEngine;
1591052;1482859480;mircea_popescu;using System;
1591053;1482859480;mircea_popescu;public class ClockAnimator : MonoBehaviour {
1591054;1482859480;mircea_popescu;	private const float
1591055;1482859481;mircea_popescu;		hoursToDegrees = 360f / 12f,
1591056;1482859483;mircea_popescu;		minutesToDegrees = 360f / 60f,
1591057;1482859485;mircea_popescu;		secondsToDegrees = 360f / 60f;
1591058;1482859489;mircea_popescu;	public Transform hours, minutes, seconds;
1591059;1482859491;mircea_popescu;	public bool analog;
1591060;1482859493;mircea_popescu;	private void Update () {
1591061;1482859495;mircea_popescu;		if (analog) {
1591062;1482859497;mircea_popescu;			TimeSpan timespan = DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay;
1591063;1482859499;mircea_popescu;			hours.localRotation = Quaternion.Euler(
1591064;1482859501;mircea_popescu;				0f, 0f, (float)timespan.TotalHours * -hoursToDegrees);
1591065;1482859503;mircea_popescu;			minutes.localRotation = Quaternion.Euler(
1591066;1482859505;mircea_popescu;				0f, 0f, (float)timespan.TotalMinutes * -minutesToDegrees);
1591067;1482859507;mircea_popescu;			seconds.localRotation = Quaternion.Euler(
1591068;1482859509;mircea_popescu;				0f, 0f, (float)timespan.TotalSeconds * -secondsToDegrees);
1591069;1482859511;mircea_popescu;		}
1591070;1482859513;mircea_popescu;		else {
1591071;1482859515;mircea_popescu;			DateTime time = DateTime.Now;
1591072;1482859516;asciilifeform;my barf bag! overfloathes!
1591073;1482859519;Framedragger;what don't you like about this bunch of stuff you posted? :)
1591074;1482859519;mircea_popescu;			hours.localRotation =
1591075;1482859521;mircea_popescu;				Quaternion.Euler(0f, 0f, time.Hour * -hoursToDegrees);
1591076;1482859523;mircea_popescu;			minutes.localRotation =
1591077;1482859525;mircea_popescu;				Quaternion.Euler(0f, 0f, time.Minute * -minutesToDegrees);
1591078;1482859527;mircea_popescu;			seconds.localRotation =
1591079;1482859529;mircea_popescu;				Quaternion.Euler(0f, 0f, time.Second * -secondsToDegrees);
1591080;1482859531;*;asciilifeform off to swap gas mask canister, barf cylinder,..
1591081;1482859531;mircea_popescu;		}
1591082;1482859533;mircea_popescu;	}
1591083;1482859535;mircea_popescu;}
1591084;1482859537;mircea_popescu;apologies to the participants, but this fucking belongs in here. THIS IS NOT CODE.
1591085;1482859539;mircea_popescu;this is gargle.
1591086;1482859547;mircea_popescu;oh dear god.
1591087;1482859549;Framedragger;it's code alright.
1591088;1482859565;mircea_popescu;i'm going to go break things now.
1591089;1482859566;Framedragger;tell me that at least it's not the syntax that you hate.
1591090;1482859577;Framedragger;if it is, wtfbbq
1591091;1482859592;*;asciilifeform flashbacks to sentence served in java butugychag decade ago
1591092;1482859593;*;Framedragger unfortunately has to run, which has the side effect of delaying wrath inflicted by mp
1591093;1482859601;phf;suggesting unity to republic is setting yourself up for abuse.
1591094;1482859612;asciilifeform;dafuq is 'unity'
1591095;1482859613;Framedragger;wtf people, yes java / c# syntax is not great, but srsly now. your aesthetic sensitivities
1591096;1482859627;phf;Framedragger: it's not about syntax
1591097;1482859634;Framedragger;ok at least there's that
1591098;1482859641;phf;the thing is promistronic to the max
1591099;1482859664;Framedragger;it's a fucking clock.
1591100;1482859694;Framedragger;oh god i hear mircea_popescu's mind-cpu resetting :(
1591101;1482859709;phf;you ~script~ it in C#, by knowing just the right combination of widgets available out of a large collection of widget classes.
1591102;1482859728;Framedragger;bbl, will try to respond then
1591103;1482859806;mircea_popescu;i suppose he has a point - and if you're trying to make one of those clock walls, you'll just you know, paste down the code three or five or n times with various offsets on the TimeSpan timespan = DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay; plus should one of the clocks have to go backwards you'll paste the code once more but put a minus somewhere (which maintenance will take off because automated bounds checking indicated they should - and befo
1591104;1482859806;mircea_popescu;re you know it you reimplemented openssh in blockchain technology).
1591105;1482859837;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: java slaves actually use specially-made editors that 'automate' this atrocity
1591106;1482859848;asciilifeform;producing 1001 mutated pastes of $crapolade every day
1591107;1482859872;mircea_popescu;at some point someone recounted me an anecdote about the indian minded programmers using like a dozen empty for loops in lieu of sleep ; and then when one was hired to optimize the code he did a nested for loop, the inner being one of the previous and the outer equal to their count.
1591108;1482859875;mircea_popescu;reduced like 100 loc!
1591109;1482859893;asciilifeform;then when (horror) it is time to ~read~ it, they use specially-made 'program analysis' tools to make wall-sized chart...
1591110;1482859910;phf;Framedragger: i'm not saying it's good or bad, my original point stands though ~suggesting it to republic is setting yourself up for abuse~ and you can know why ahead of time
1591111;1482859911;mircea_popescu;and they honestly imagine THAT is what people use emacs for, also.
1591112;1482859925;diana_coman;Framedragger, it's not the syntax, it's the whole "approach"; though if you find *that* acceptable, I guess you'll find planeshift code just as acceptable with all its 20-level dependency hell, mix-and-match mess of concepts (hey, what IS a concept anyway and what do you mean there is something other than interface anyway)
1591113;1482859955;mircea_popescu;phf yes of course it's not good or bad, "all turing machines are equivalent let's malbolge nao"
1591114;1482859970;mircea_popescu;it's very bad not because of the computer, which nobody fucking cares, but because it stupids your head.
1591115;1482860138;diana_coman;in other words, mircea_popescu, it is "accessible" and "easy to get things going" - in all the wrong directions, of course, but nobody mentioned anything about direction now, did they
1591116;1482860172;mircea_popescu;i dunno, how the fuck am i to come up with "DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay" ?
1591117;1482860195;mircea_popescu;there's a problem with these "obvious" things that are only ever obvious in retrospect.
1591118;1482860224;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: naturally by hitting ctrl-spacebar after each vague guess, and reading off the suggested menu crapolade, 'hmm... datesomethingorother...ctrlspace..now...nowwhat...ctrlspace!!1111!111ctrlspace'
1591119;1482860231;mircea_popescu;and no, it's not syntax. if it were, " minutesToDegrees" would be AngleMeasure.Variable.MinutesToDegrees
1591120;1482860239;mircea_popescu;but it isn't. because the scheme's batshit insane.
1591121;1482860242;diana_coman;getting things going is seen as "copy/paste stuff really, no need to come up with anything there
1591122;1482860253;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when you read soup that makes 0 sense to unarmed eyes, the chances are that: it WAS NOT WRITTEN BY HUMAN HAND
1591123;1482860258;asciilifeform;but by autoshitter
1591124;1482860276;asciilifeform;under the vague, limp handholding of 'human' 'programmer'
1591125;1482860276;mircea_popescu;i suspect this was built by autoshitter emulated on human head.
1591126;1482860282;diana_coman;there is no scheme and no notion of scheme, because only interface and you know a bit country style: what do you mean you don't know how to get to X? EVERYBODY knows
1591127;1482860288;asciilifeform;nah see head has very little input into the process.
1591128;1482860298;asciilifeform;about same as mcdonalds employee has input to the deep fryer machine.
1591129;1482860304;asciilifeform;he turns it on, off, that's mostly it.
1591130;1482860321;trinque;someday they'll hook TAB directly into stack overflow
1591131;1482860339;asciilifeform;trinque: betcha ben_vulpes's 'xcode', or perhaps the latest microshit studio, does this.
1591132;1482860398;jurov;poor ben_vulpes, imo he meant the article for completely different demographic than present fine society. almost everyone i know began with barfalicious basic or turbopascal
1591133;1482860414;mircea_popescu;i began with basic ; it does not have this crap.
1591134;1482860421;mircea_popescu;i daresay a goto-ridden program is saner than this.
1591135;1482860433;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: basic fit-in-head
1591136;1482860435;asciilifeform;and not only the language
1591137;1482860438;asciilifeform;but the implementation.
1591138;1482860443;mircea_popescu;it also fit on kbd. it was ALPHABETIC
1591139;1482860445;mircea_popescu;you can't beat this.
1591140;1482860453;trinque;jump is at least something the machine itself *does*
1591141;1482860455;mircea_popescu;inkey$ motherfuckers.
1591142;1482860512;asciilifeform;http://www.pagetable.com/docs/M6502.MAC.txt << the infamous microshit (yes, that one) 6502 basic.
1591143;1482860523;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i guess the rurality point is actually very apt. just because the monkeys got force-moved to urban "developments" doesn't mean they're not still retarded.
1591144;1482860680;mircea_popescu;holy shit "Quaternion.Euler" is a full blown core function. and wait, there's more : http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/765683/when-to-use-quaternion-vs-euler-angles.html
1591145;1482860703;phf;mircea_popescu: that's not what i meant. there are others here who talk about good or bad, where's i don't care, because the cause and effect there is so far removed from where i'm standing i can only look at it in entomological terms
1591146;1482860725;mircea_popescu;i can see it.
1591147;1482860752;asciilifeform;http://www.retro.co.za/ccc/apple2/paulrsm/6502/INTLST.TXT << woz's much more compact (4kB) float-less basic.
1591148;1482860756;asciilifeform;for comparison.
1591149;1482860809;phf;at some point you had engines, and if you wanted to license an engine you got the whole thing, source and ~technological~ notes. later engines started getting in-house nooks and crannies so that your wizard team of mainloop development can focus on squeezing extra couple of ms for a cycle, while your lesser mortals can write the scenario logic etc. there was a reasonable sweet spot there like Aurora or Gamebryo where if you wanted to
1591150;1482860810;phf;license it you'd get source, technotes and some scripting thing. at some point somebody discovered that if you have enough of "some scripting thing", you can keep the engine closed source, thus creating a market of unity/unrealengine/etc.
1591151;1482860810;asciilifeform;the key here, for n00bz, is that there is literally not 1 byte in there that does not have 1) a specific purpose, 2) that you can discern from looking at the cpu docs -- which fit on 1 a4 sheet of paper.
1591152;1482860884;mircea_popescu;phf i fear the matter was more in the vein of "mcdonalds has hieroglyphic rather than numeric cash reigsters because it uses monkeys not people to operate them"
1591153;1482860974;mircea_popescu;and the whole thing relies on a certain blindness of "why is the tomato green on your cash register but blue in my plate and shouldn't tomatoes be red to begin with" which is the very bread and butter of both "mit is the premier science and technology institution at the world series" as well as "thank you for your leadership we will conqueliberate mosul in two weeks three years ago. or four."
1591154;1482861002;phf;well, yes, but mcdonalds is not the best analogy. it's commodification. "buy this thing that all the pros use and be just like a pro! comes with EASY TO USE controls!"
1591155;1482861271;mircea_popescu;if the average programmer were literate as opposed to marginally qualified clucker, a) configuration wouldn't be confused with programming and b) vice-versa either.
1591156;1482861292;mircea_popescu;for that matter, "ai" wouldn't be confused with a large bank of switches.
1591157;1482861294;asciilifeform;the deskilling was not performed ~by~ programmers.
1591158;1482861299;mircea_popescu;yes, it was.
1591159;1482861300;phf;right, in a sense that "pros" are as much of an illusion
1591160;1482861307;asciilifeform;any more than the hieroglyphs on the mcdonalds registers were placed there by the cooks.
1591161;1482861314;mircea_popescu;but they were.
1591162;1482861323;asciilifeform;and what else, chickens build chicken farms /
1591163;1482861324;asciilifeform;?
1591164;1482861336;mircea_popescu;in the sense here contemplated, yes, they did.
1591165;1482861347;mircea_popescu;what, you think it's the fox's option as to whether to chase the chicken ?
1591166;1482861368;mircea_popescu;the fox chases the chicken because the chicken, not because the fox.
1591167;1482861371;phf;gosling knew what he was doing when he designed java, said so himself.
1591168;1482861420;*;mircea_popescu is vaguely unfamiliar, is there a link ?
1591169;1482861452;phf;at this point probably apocryphal, but i'll try to find the origin
1591170;1482861699;asciilifeform;gosling gets the blame, but there were quislings, e.g., steele, see also http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg04045.html
1591171;1482861719;asciilifeform;'And you're right: we were not out to win over the Lisp programmers; we were after the C++ programmers.  We managed to drag a lot of them about halfway to Lisp.  Aren't you happy?' -- steele (yes, that one, of CLTL!)
1591172;1482862015;phf;there was an interview where he says that the design goal was to make the managers happy by making teams replaceable. widget driven development, where each widget is isolated from each other
1591173;1482862039;asciilifeform;aka deskilling.
1591174;1482862154;phf;at some point you could easily find small collections of early gosling quotes, which are really quite harsh and were liberally in anti-java arguments, but now i can't find any :o
1591175;1482862198;mircea_popescu;dude. quaternions. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME OMFG i'm hyperventilating over here. to quote their fucking manual, "Quaternions have some advantages when it comes to gimbal lock and smooth interpolation. Their main downside is that they rely on advanced math -- math that even experienced developers often find difficult and confusing. [...] People very rarely interact with quaternions directly. As it turns out, it's almost always eas
1591176;1482862198;mircea_popescu;ier to manipulate them using other representations [...] I recommend using quaternion variables [...]"
1591177;1482862223;phf;:D
1591178;1482862229;mircea_popescu;do you understand this Framedragger ? there is a ~COST~ to this "getting going fast", and that cost is - you give up ON UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE DOING!
1591179;1482862260;mircea_popescu;how the fuck it's not exactly the mcdonalds hieroglyphic cash register is anyone's guess.
1591180;1482862296;mircea_popescu;these people can't find a simple limit in their head and yet fucking vectors are no good for them anymore.
1591181;1482862350;mircea_popescu;with any luck there's a Heisenberg.ToSchroedinger first class function implemented in this unity thing and it runs permanently in the background.
1591182;1482862359;phf;you don't understand, that's just code bro machismo speaking. we must make programming easier and more accessible, so that even kids in uganda can produce AAA award winning games!
1591183;1482862413;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the last time anyone produced a game the wtc was still standing.
1591184;1482862690;mircea_popescu;oh, hey, I KNEW this was gonna be in there. a) "I recommend using quaternion variables to represent two things: an object's rotation, and/or a rotation which you'd like to apply to some object." ; b) "You cannot represent rotations of greater than 180 degrees with Quaternions, and when doing a Slerp() or MoveTowards() rotation with Quaternions, the rotation always take the shortest path. So if you need to rotate more than 180
1591185;1482862690;mircea_popescu; degrees, often EulerAngles are a better choice."
1591186;1482862705;mircea_popescu;and of course b is in the fine print and of course this just became a fine example of the discussion itself.
1591187;1482862750;mircea_popescu;now the fucking code "that's easy to get up" will have to contain a pi radian check because otherwise clocks may be going backwards.
1591188;1482862786;mircea_popescu;and the ~only way~ innocent grasshopper could even know about this is if graybeard can be arsed to go through these motions - which you couldn't pay me to do as a regular thing.
1591189;1482862942;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-10#1480721 << see also thread.
1591190;1482862942;a111;Logged on 2016-06-10 21:33 asciilifeform: for absolutely nothing, esp. if you can offload the cost of your turd being pwned weekly, needing 16GB of ram, crashing daily, etc. on OTHER PEOPLE
1591191;1482862949;asciilifeform;or for that matter asciilifeform's ~entire www.
1591192;1482862955;asciilifeform;is re subj.
1591193;1482863094;phf;there's a gamedev coworking in philly, the space is primarily rented by some team that had a handful of successful releases in appstore. naturally games written in unity. they can't rent by themselves, but as a minor celebrity (game featured on appstore frontpage for a whole two weeks!1) they can share rent with a handful of other 1-2 people teams. i went there once before finding all this out, because was expecting a scene squat. after
1591194;1482863094;phf;discussing the moon phases of successful appstore game releases with their shamans, i spent about an hour shoulder surfing one of the "main devs". guy was trying to get a texture to render without artifacts (ultimately it's a texture mapped to a surface in opengl and if you don't want the opengl's scaling to kick in you have to get the size just right), and literally everything that he was saying was in terms of "i read this one
1591195;1482863094;phf;tutorial and the say you need to enable FooSwitch in BarOptions, but this other tutorial says you need to use PNG, etc.
1591196;1482863102;asciilifeform;( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=498&cpage=1#comment-1812 in particular. )
1591197;1482863160;asciilifeform;' ... and if you don't want the opengl's scaling to kick in you have to get the size just right ' << abstractions ftw! gabrielladdel forward and onward !
1591198;1482863217;asciilifeform;and wtf is a 'coworking space'
1591199;1482863242;phf;it's active ~disempowerment~, because opengl is already a tricky state machine, but they are trying to manipulate it by controlling a puppet that's using chopstick to toggle switches on a pdp-10 that has effects on the environment state. i'm sure ~if you don't need unity~ you can filter out all the noise, but good luck if that's your first exposure to 3d
1591200;1482863244;asciilifeform;is that where folx who don't ~have~ to drag their arses to an office daily, do anyway, like that fired japanese d00d from earlier thread...?
1591201;1482863291;asciilifeform;phf: this is probably why, at least in asciilifeform's experience, folx whose first experience programming happened on winblowz or wwwtron, are ~incurable
1591202;1482863292;trinque;it's where you hax killer apps with other up and coming unicorn startup CEOs
1591203;1482863294;phf;asciilifeform: yes! "i get lonely working from home"
1591204;1482863316;asciilifeform;l0l!!!
1591205;1482863329;asciilifeform;why, poor ants, did they have to leave the anthill.
1591206;1482863339;asciilifeform;room enough inside for all of'em.
1591207;1482863366;mircea_popescu;what is shoulder surfing ?
1591208;1482863388;asciilifeform;americanism, refers to peeking at somebody's screen
1591209;1482863394;mircea_popescu;aok
1591210;1482863419;mircea_popescu;coworking space is harem without master or tits. also known as refuse pit.
1591211;1482863432;asciilifeform;бомжатник
1591212;1482863453;asciilifeform;(orlol translates this as 'bum garden. what's yer problem, it's just as much a 'garden' as an office park is a 'park' !'
1591213;1482863454;asciilifeform;)
1591214;1482863454;phf;well, it's very close in spirit and substance to that warehouse that burned down
1591215;1482863472;mircea_popescu;heh
1591216;1482863569;asciilifeform;harem without master or tits << oblig >> 'Со-солнечный зайчик, Зайчик ничей. Зайчик без хвостика, Зайчик без ушей. ... Щёлкал зубами Солнечный волк. Только вот зайчика Он поймать не смог.' (tm) (r)
1591217;1482863602;mircea_popescu;"this is the painting of a knife without a handle that's missing the blade."
1591218;1482863632;*;asciilifeform just realized that he has nfi what a 'солнечный зайчик' is called in english
1591219;1482863657;phf;well, these "without master" conversation always remind me of the conversations i have with uber drivers. "i'm my own boss, ese, can work whenever i want -- yeah, man, that's great, now turn left here"
1591220;1482863665;asciilifeform;(it ain't a hare, the kind in the woods, but a beam of sunlight a kid throws around with something shiny, for amusement)
1591221;1482863943;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591202 << i have NO FUCKING IDEA why technical monkeys would wish to misrepresent themselves with this ceo business. being a ceo is entirely orthogonal on what they do, it's like a car mechanic claiming he's a fuel chemist. no good can possibly come of this.
1591222;1482863943;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 18:28 trinque: it's where you hax killer apps with other up and coming unicorn startup CEOs
1591223;1482863947;asciilifeform;http://www.rebol.com/article/0497.html << in pertinent but vintage lulz.
1591224;1482863970;asciilifeform;'Sorry, not going to do it. I know I'm going to hear comments from you: "it's no problem, just do it, works great, it's how it's done nowadays, the standard of practice, everyone does it, you're old fashioned, ignore the overhead, memory is cheap, blah blah blah." Sorry: no. No! This is software complexity pollution. You need one little thing, but then it requires another, and another, and before long you're installing (and maintaini
1591225;1482863970;asciilifeform;ng) a half dozen different subsystems. It's a complexity snowball.'
1591226;1482863994;trinque;mircea_popescu: same reason central african presidents are always "doctor", aside "president"
1591227;1482864000;mircea_popescu;you know ?
1591228;1482864046;asciilifeform;in other lulz, some d00d is carefully, slowly crawling phuctor using ~dozen linode boxes (why the effort! why not write in, get a copy of the db, like normal people)
1591229;1482864063;mircea_popescu;"i'm a dancer-poet slash cook-plumber"
1591230;1482864090;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the distance people will run to avoid wot, you know ?
1591231;1482864123;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall your article on one michael church ?
1591232;1482864127;mircea_popescu;i do.
1591233;1482864165;asciilifeform;american 'ceo' frittered away 'mandate of heaven', just as african 'doctor' is the same monkey but with four story mansion instead of 1-story cement hut, but no detectable additional curative power, vs other monkey
1591234;1482864185;asciilifeform;american ceo is same street monkey but with added jet propulsion, as american street scum, and this is impossible to hide from the latter
1591235;1482864190;asciilifeform;like the proverbial awl in a sack.
1591236;1482864220;mircea_popescu;i suppose the issue occurs on the slippery slope of "executive", as in seinfeld.
1591237;1482864236;mircea_popescu;(fun fact : poor man's fixed menus in this country are called "menu ejecutivo".)
1591238;1482864239;asciilifeform;homo redditicus could not stand in for, e.g., john rockefeller, for five minutes, but ~could~ stand in for fiorina. and he knows it.
1591239;1482864255;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6049 << More car hell
1591240;1482866427;mod6;hai
1591241;1482866533;trinque;mod6: mind your step while I hose Unity's blood and piss out of the room.
1591242;1482866606;mod6;Take your time, Sir.
1591243;1482867159;mircea_popescu;dude... someone tell lafond if womenz dun listen it's not about the womenz.
1591244;1482867289;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591031 << eulora allows users to spawn n objects and move them around at arbitrary velocities? does physics sim with kinematics?
1591245;1482867289;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 17:13 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pray tell why do you recommed unity in favour of eulora ? eulora bots exist as a matter of fact, with people hacking on them and repl-ing the results after a 10 minute compile. what equivalent to this does unity offer ?
1591246;1482867299;ben_vulpes;collision detection etc?
1591247;1482867321;mircea_popescu;is that the mandatory form of this problem ?
1591248;1482867339;ben_vulpes;yes.
1591249;1482867344;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: if the solution is in java, then it isn't a solution, and chances are that your 'problem' is also not a problem
1591250;1482867345;mircea_popescu;as exemplified in the logs i have at least one example of guy learning to program on eulora ; and 0 examples in unity.
1591251;1482867417;ben_vulpes;did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
1591252;1482867437;ben_vulpes;whole first paragraph didn't register or what
1591253;1482867476;ben_vulpes;"learning programming" is miserable and none of the things suggested "are programming"
1591254;1482867716;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> dude... someone tell lafond if womenz dun listen it's not about the womenz. << he has comment box and I am busy with unprecedented USDA lulz rivaling unprecedented Israel lulz
1591255;1482867727;BingoBoingo;SOrry, UNPRESIDENTED
1591256;1482867973;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << i intuited the same thing, but that it didn't sha512 properly until...last year? induces ye olde pucker
1591257;1482867973;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 16:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
1591258;1482868015;ben_vulpes;amusingly, sha512sum shows drepper as an author on this particular system
1591259;1482868033;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: iirc the one in gnupg is drepper's
1591260;1482868108;ben_vulpes;dreppers and kochs and bears oh my
1591261;1482869464;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats
1591262;1482869467;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 445386 | Current Difficulty: 3.10153855703E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 445535 | Next Difficulty In: 149 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 0 hours, 11 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1591263;1482869750;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/monetary-printing-press-hot-again-usda-no-rejection-farm-loans-and-unlimited-lending-authority-to-run-through-april-28th-2017/ << Qntra - Monetary Printing Press Hot Again: USDA No Rejection Farm Loans And Unlimited Lending Authority To Run Through April 28th 2017
1591264;1482869898;asciilifeform;'offensive cultivation cultivation practices' ?
1591265;1482869921;BingoBoingo;ty deduped
1591266;1482870075;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591256 << it still blows my mind that a proggy that erroneously calculates ~standard~ sha512 was actually released
1591267;1482870075;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 19:46 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << i intuited the same thing, but that it didn't sha512 properly until...last year? induces ye olde pucker
1591268;1482870082;asciilifeform;author did not do elementary smoke test, or wat.
1591269;1482870112;*;jurov wonders why no mention of fully skynet-capable tractors that can't be bought, only licensed
1591270;1482870127;asciilifeform;jurov: possibly because they are sop since a couple of years ago ?
1591271;1482870133;asciilifeform;at least in large mega-farm concerns
1591272;1482870135;asciilifeform;we had a thread.
1591273;1482870186;jurov;yes yes, just a way to raise awareness and for BingoBoingo to scoop some more precious shares :)
1591274;1482870187;asciilifeform;and there are multiple, redundant layers in the shit sandwich, after plowing they sow seeds that cannot be bought, only licensed, etc.
1591275;1482870227;asciilifeform;Great Inca cements himself into every possible process loop, makes sure that everybody understands that 'if Great Inca falls -- famine.'
1591276;1482870322;jurov;!!!russian h4x0rz!!!
1591277;1482870729;BingoBoingo;jurov: Ah, yeah tractor lulz just not acute enough atm
1591278;1482871023;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/how-to-learn-programming/comment-page-1#comment-96
1591279;1482871412;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: answered
1591280;1482871415;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: you too
1591281;1482871501;ben_vulpes;i am pretty sure this automated phone system just told me that there were 128 people "ahead of me in line", took down my number and then called me back immediately to put me on hold
1591282;1482871507;ben_vulpes;i wonder what metrics are being gamed here
1591283;1482871686;asciilifeform;i still wonder how otherwise-sane folx end up in wwwtronics.
1591284;1482871695;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes, phf, et al ^
1591285;1482871702;ben_vulpes;"just want"ing an office with a keg
1591286;1482871704;asciilifeform;you ~could~ be doing something else
1591287;1482871734;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i worked in an otherwise inexpressibly-dire and usgtronic shithole briefly where there was ~office with whiskey~
1591288;1482871742;asciilifeform;it did not balance the horror.
1591289;1482871746;ben_vulpes;praytell what 'others' are they?
1591290;1482871751;ben_vulpes;there*
1591291;1482871762;asciilifeform;which others
1591292;1482871769;ben_vulpes;'something else'
1591293;1482871777;asciilifeform;there are other rackets
1591294;1482871788;asciilifeform;the seek000rity racket, for instance
1591295;1482871795;asciilifeform;or industrial control systems
1591296;1482871806;ben_vulpes;i cannot stomach the security folks
1591297;1482871822;asciilifeform;in trinquelandia, there is petro
1591298;1482871837;asciilifeform;and hell knows where else, there is hell knows what else, for the easily physically mobile folk
1591299;1482871924;ben_vulpes;i once sat in on a sales meeting where this security gentleman terrorized a poor nonprofit into wasting tens of thousands of dollars on snake oil
1591300;1482871952;ben_vulpes;whole racket is utterly abhorrent.
1591301;1482871999;phf;asciilifeform: i did all those. i was in security for example, doing pen testing and later opsec design. that was in 2004 though
1591302;1482872031;ben_vulpes;i have been considering buying a few beat up tow and box trucks and getting into the hauling of cars and storing of shit
1591303;1482872050;ben_vulpes;ain't like alibaba and amz are going to stop shipping cheap petrocrap to the states
1591304;1482872103;ben_vulpes;i'm also experimenting with alternative identities, imagining wearing a food truck, to see "how the other half lives"
1591305;1482872111;ben_vulpes;growing beards, wearing plaid
1591306;1482872120;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591248 << i dun see it. the whole fucking point of it is to solve the (interesting) problems selected by whoever is running it ; not the freeform "solve whatever problem you want" bs.
1591307;1482872120;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 19:35 ben_vulpes: yes.
1591308;1482872176;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591251 << it's ambiguous ; some of the things suggested actually are programming / learning how to do it yes.
1591309;1482872176;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 19:36 ben_vulpes: did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
1591310;1482872220;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: that'd be how i actually learned anything useful, finding a master jumping when told.
1591311;1482872284;mircea_popescu;yeh.
1591312;1482872340;phf;asciilifeform: i also did physical security, actually my biggest lisp project was modifying FREEDIUS to do perimeter security on multiple large south african compounds. they needed to do coordinated incident escalation and wanted something more sophisticated then a wall of monitors
1591313;1482872433;mircea_popescu;i thought that was c
1591314;1482872521;phf;asciilifeform: but i ~learned~ web 2.0 when it came out in 2004 or 2005 or so, back then because it was interesting new technology. literally nothing changed since then. so now web is an easy racket. despite all the "shitstack" cries there's no difference between it and other types of manure work, but the bar is so low, it is sometimes very convenient. if you're a ~good~ developer doing web, you can write your own check, write your own
1591315;1482872522;phf;schedule and write your terms of engagement.
1591316;1482872554;mats;heh, half a dozen folks i know at tripadvisor are likely still there because boss is ok with consuming a growler before noon
1591317;1482872558;mircea_popescu;(i also thought that it was a lulzfest to rival that wikipedia founder/retard's crazy batshit "knowledge" thing)
1591318;1482872565;mats;watta privilege, getting shitfaced on the job
1591319;1482872636;mircea_popescu;or no wait, sanger did the retarded "citizen encyclopedia", the crazy "knowledge" job  was something else
1591320;1482872642;*;mircea_popescu tries to remember wtf.
1591321;1482872668;phf;asciilifeform: i literally don't spend ~any time~ learning web on my own. i simply have this unprecedented apparently ability to sit the fuck down and read the documentation/source code for longer then it takes to google twitch. spend 3 hours of reading docs??? forget about it, i might as well be a wizard of some sort.
1591322;1482872713;ben_vulpes;"wait, how do you even find the source code for stuff?!"
1591323;1482872777;mats;!#s paul le roux
1591324;1482872778;a111;0 results for "paul le roux", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=paul%20le%20roux
1591325;1482872779;ben_vulpes;in other brute force attacks, did we do http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/hacked-just-six-seconds-criminals-need-moments-guess-card-number/ ?
1591326;1482872789;mircea_popescu;cyc! lenat's thing. gah.
1591327;1482872823;phf;ben_vulpes: "i don't know what's going on here" "ok, let's see what the source says *opens source, starts reading*" "???!?!??!??!?"
1591328;1482872864;ben_vulpes;mhm
1591329;1482872922;ben_vulpes;"i tell ya tho, all that time you spend tweaking emacs is entirely useless." *navigates to precise spot of insanity* "well that's cool, but emacs is still a waste of time, i coulda found that on github in a few seconds"
1591330;1482872939;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591275 << except the russians will be more than happy to ship over excess grain, in exchange for the usual deal
1591331;1482872939;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 20:23 asciilifeform: Great Inca cements himself into every possible process loop, makes sure that everybody understands that 'if Great Inca falls -- famine.'
1591332;1482872953;mircea_popescu;(see greek "10 virgin girls, 10 virgin boys" teseus history)
1591333;1482872986;*;trinque still cannot believe the immense effort that people put into making "dynamic" web page frameworks when the overwhelming majority of the web is static content.
1591334;1482872988;trinque;published once.
1591335;1482872995;trinque;maybe you get a comment sometime or whatever.
1591336;1482873007;trinque;if that doesn't indicate ~there's no one at the wheel~ ...
1591337;1482873039;mircea_popescu;there's no one at the wheel.
1591338;1482873128;ben_vulpes;anyone ever see the hoops people jump through on large "magento" sites?
1591339;1482873132;*;jurov was for some time making money basically by reading 10y old perl, too...
1591340;1482873147;ben_vulpes;(at least the magento folks have the decency to call their phpball a "site")
1591341;1482873174;mircea_popescu;that still exists does it ?
1591342;1482873177;ben_vulpes;oya
1591343;1482873187;ben_vulpes;wordpress of ecomm afaict
1591344;1482873225;*;mircea_popescu recalls meeting cca i dunno, 2005 maybe ? dorks were going to make a shop, made demo, mark (eldery expat, texan, totally lovely) innocently goes "wouldn't this be a lot better if it worked ?"
1591345;1482873243;trinque;lol
1591346;1482873247;ben_vulpes;haww
1591347;1482873252;phf;ben_vulpes: it's actual the opposite lulz right now. intellij idea is excellent tool for shitstacking, but i know ok devs who stick to subltime text or vim because "lightweight" "real hacker tool", even though they lack discipline and skill to use those tools effectively. it's like "no, you should probably use this thing, so that i don't have to fucking deal with your inability to format your own source file"
1591348;1482873256;mircea_popescu;he didn't even mean anything by it, he was using it ~to encourage~ the kids.
1591349;1482873276;mircea_popescu;as in, you know, "i'm sure this is great and all,  and the not working totally incidental"
1591350;1482873336;ben_vulpes;kinda think "not working totally incidental" has not been a favor to its recipients.
1591351;1482873342;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1591352;1482873350;trinque;look, I'm an idea guy.
1591353;1482873370;mircea_popescu;of course at the time dev work was cheap. i had no interest, but this actually happened in del ray casino ; and the kids were asking for less than what people threw at the sluttier ticas in chips.
1591354;1482873394;ben_vulpes;phf: even naive xcode shits whitespace all over the place
1591355;1482873397;mircea_popescu;~same came of either +/- a blowjob or two.
1591356;1482873482;phf;ben_vulpes: well, that's why there's appcode.
1591357;1482873502;ben_vulpes;da
1591358;1482873504;ben_vulpes;fuq
1591359;1482873525;ben_vulpes;ah tight
1591360;1482873543;ben_vulpes;> seamlessly integrates with cocoapods
1591361;1482873569;ben_vulpes;i don't usually fuck with dependencies, but when i do i want my ide to fix all of the problems for me
1591362;1482873671;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591325 << thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-13#499311
1591363;1482873671;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 21:06 ben_vulpes: in other brute force attacks, did we do http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/hacked-just-six-seconds-criminals-need-moments-guess-card-number/ ?
1591364;1482873671;a111;Logged on 2014-02-13 00:54 asciilifeform: 'carding' as we know it is actually a creature of u.s. and british banks. which profit from it.
1591365;1482873771;phf;appcode/xcode/vs/etc. are not ~your ide~, none of this is yours. i mean it's sort of like being sent to gulag and grumbling about wheelbarrow design. of course you will, because mind, but it's not going to make your life easier
1591366;1482873791;asciilifeform;!~bash 1
1591367;1482873791;jhvh1;Last 1 lines bashed and pending publication
1591368;1482873818;asciilifeform;(is that knob actually connected to anything...?)
1591369;1482873855;mircea_popescu;the question of course is whose is it.
1591370;1482873884;mircea_popescu;alf likes to assert "x profits from it" but this assertion is kinda nude. apple benefits from xcode about as much as rbs benefits from western world being made of chickens.
1591371;1482873890;asciilifeform;Дальстрой's of course
1591372;1482873898;mircea_popescu;gotta spend all this time maning stockades, rather than the other way around
1591373;1482873938;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: consider, by crown decree, visa issued chip cards to ~all of usa. SANS RSA
1591374;1482873950;phf;asciilifeform: you mean berzin's? no wait pavlov's? oh wait. nikishov's? yeah scratch that too
1591375;1482873958;asciilifeform;because not printing private key on the fucking plastic WOULD BE WRONG!1111
1591376;1482873979;mircea_popescu;there's an important business strategy point here that's not discussed among the chickens, but hark : it is actually a better business strategy to sell to isis than to us consumer - because isis is still on the ground in spite of usg shooting missles at it ; whereas us consumer is barely standing in spite of usg pumping all it can print straight into him.
1591377;1482873989;mircea_popescu;you want your customers to be tough, because if they survive so do you.
1591378;1482874078;mircea_popescu;it is ~also~ much easier to scale isis than to scale ~your business~ predicated on selling to the us consumer. chiefly because yes "but mp! ipos happen every day!" sure they do - not for ~YOU~. for them. see http://trilema.com/2015/you-know-what-gets-no-airplay-unflattering-truth/
1591379;1482874094;mircea_popescu;even emperor-god-jobs was KICKED OUT OF HIS OWN CORP by the fuckers.
1591380;1482874432;asciilifeform;and in 17th c it was probably the fattest +ev to invest in pirates.
1591381;1482874437;asciilifeform;(until it wasn't)
1591382;1482874442;mircea_popescu;in point of fact it was.
1591383;1482874454;asciilifeform;yarrrr.
1591384;1482874492;asciilifeform;(see also the feasting on corpses thread, not so long ago)
1591385;1482874572;mircea_popescu;rather.
1591386;1482874631;mircea_popescu;as  a point of sovereign strategy, you always want to trade with the smallest and toughest of the neighbours - it's productive, plus it softens them up ; and to loot and pillage the largest, softest of neighbours (preferably under the guise of "being allies" and "keeping the peace" if possible, but outright rapine otherwise).
1591387;1482874667;mircea_popescu;which i suppose is the main strategic direction of tmsr - in a few years they either pay us to "secure" all systems or else the systems burn down.
1591388;1482874675;mircea_popescu;sounds like a reasonable basis for an actual state.
1591389;1482874705;mircea_popescu;then in a few centuries tmsr guard can protect the scotuspope much like the swiss guard in rome today. nice hats and all.
1591390;1482874742;mircea_popescu;"the whitehouse website based in maryland" as the expression went.
1591391;1482874885;mod6;shout-out to trinque @ new wot-graph.  Thank you for making this work! https://twitter.com/modsix/status/813856062256377856
1591392;1482874905;mircea_popescu;yeh it's pretty cool innit
1591393;1482874913;mod6;i love this stuff.
1591394;1482874937;mircea_popescu;btw are you foundation people gonna make a prize gala or something ?
1591395;1482874968;trinque;that it came out as a trollface smiley is a sign from the gods.
1591396;1482874983;ben_vulpes;whoa trinque that js is snappy
1591397;1482874990;mod6;gala?  last we were discussing some sort of university advertising
1591398;1482875001;mircea_popescu;hey i'm just an idea guy
1591399;1482875015;mod6;and we had some ideas regarding the same, but didn't come to any specific conculsions.
1591400;1482875033;mircea_popescu;nething public ?
1591401;1482875044;mod6;not as of yet. working on it.
1591402;1482875045;trinque;ben_vulpes: www-wot package farts out a bunch of json index files for the search
1591403;1482875050;mircea_popescu;alrighty.
1591404;1482875063;phf;is there link outside of twitter?
1591405;1482875072;ben_vulpes;phf: http://wot.deedbot.org/4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA.html
1591406;1482875076;mod6;i'd actually say we're close, but we're working on some phrasing etc.
1591407;1482875079;phf;ty
1591408;1482875084;trinque;!!key ben_vulpes
1591409;1482875084;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA.asc
1591410;1482875091;trinque;also a link on the page.
1591411;1482875973;ben_vulpes;so here's what i'm thinking re: ironclad
1591412;1482876034;ben_vulpes;i don't want to say something like "ensure you have HEAD of the Ironclad library", i think it's more likely and more in line with waht mod6 is doing to shell out to sha512sum
1591413;1482876065;ben_vulpes;more likely to work* on $box
1591414;1482876075;mod6;ya 'tis what v.pl does
1591415;1482876079;ben_vulpes;mhm
1591416;1482876099;ben_vulpes;i'm also not really in a mood to make ironclad_genesis.vpatch today
1591417;1482876141;ben_vulpes;plan then is to grind this patch for my v out shelling out to sha512sum
1591418;1482876155;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu, phf, asciilifeform, mod6: thoughts?
1591419;1482876178;mod6;tmsr aught to send out a message to them saying their shit dun work
1591420;1482876215;ben_vulpes;phf linked the patch, he fixed it
1591421;1482876228;mod6;ah ok. was that the pdf i didn't read?
1591422;1482876234;phf;nah, the fix is in the trunk already
1591423;1482876262;phf;mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590699
1591424;1482876262;a111;Logged on 2016-12-26 02:38 phf: ben_vulpes: according to master this is the reason http://glyf.org/tmp/ironclad-sha512.patch unsigned for obvious reasons
1591425;1482876275;ben_vulpes;phf: not in whatever quicklisp builds though, right?
1591426;1482876275;mod6;ah thx phf
1591427;1482876282;phf;ben_vulpes: correct
1591428;1482876396;ben_vulpes;the one time i want a package manager to have the most recent commits...
1591429;1482876486;phf;"you can't fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong"
1591430;1482876645;mircea_popescu;ok so if they put patches in at least, what's the argument against linking to them ?
1591431;1482876652;mircea_popescu;i suppose should be invited to wot etc.
1591432;1482876692;ben_vulpes;guy lays out in his "how ironclad came to be" that he doesn't really spend much time on it anymore.
1591433;1482876726;mircea_popescu;no practical way to just steal the sha itself make it a standalone ?
1591434;1482876751;ben_vulpes;have not looked yet
1591435;1482876804;ben_vulpes;might be more practical to make a genesis for the fixed version
1591436;1482876830;mircea_popescu;will probably end up with a tmsr crypto lib anyway, might as well start thinking about it.
1591437;1482876874;mircea_popescu;course since the nsa consulting work for minigame is going to produce ada rsa, it might be an idea to have an ~ada~ tmsr crypto lib.
1591438;1482876943;ben_vulpes;pump the brakes there idea man
1591439;1482876982;ben_vulpes;i am trying to figure out how to handle widely-distributed versions of ironclad not working in the way i need them to work for my v to verify hashes on press
1591440;1482877006;phf;just want it work huh
1591441;1482877015;*;phf ducks
1591442;1482877016;ben_vulpes;not indefinitely postpone releasing this vpatch while i wait for stan to release an ada cryptor and link that from cl
1591443;1482877036;*;ben_vulpes throws a coffee mug at phf
1591444;1482877053;ben_vulpes;i am willing to do all sorts of stupid shit, buddy
1591445;1482877118;ben_vulpes;anyways, mircea_popescu says "don't shell out to sha512sum"?
1591446;1482877125;mircea_popescu;gotta discuss this otherwise we'll end up with apical chaos.
1591447;1482877126;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes do i have such a reputation for blocking work ?
1591448;1482877126;mircea_popescu;we still gotta figure out what we intend to do here.
1591449;1482877126;mircea_popescu;now then. can the lispheads live with the idea of an ada tmsr-cryptolib ? perhaps with it as a reference and a lisp copy ?
1591450;1482877143;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i say "keep shelling to it for as long as that's what you do, but once you change that change it to something sane"
1591451;1482877153;mircea_popescu;grandfathering principle.
1591452;1482877166;mircea_popescu;you know, exactly how trb work proceeds also.
1591453;1482877232;ben_vulpes;mhm
1591454;1482877242;ben_vulpes;is shelling in principle insane?
1591455;1482877246;mircea_popescu;yes.
1591456;1482877259;mircea_popescu;shelling is === calling php.
1591457;1482877292;mircea_popescu;if the thing you're shelling to is actually the right thing, take the code put it in a lib or in your application.
1591458;1482877421;mircea_popescu;but as a principle, the shell exists for a human operator. shelling from code is much like taking knives and forks, melting them, and trying to dropforge tools. they WERE ALREADY metal that was forged into something. go to that source, change that from knives to wrenches or w/e you are doing. no need to involve the whole supermarket chain to sell you metal ingots in fork shape at 20bux a half dozen
1591459;1482877496;ben_vulpes;makes sense
1591460;1482877675;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1591461;1482877680;ben_vulpes;nutso
1591462;1482877680;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 930.85, vol: 7071.97692009 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 906.046, vol: 6799.44128 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 932.97, vol: 9348.2437732 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 963.622033, vol: 2434915.56320000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 932.903, vol: 1742.5150349 | Volume-weighted last average: 963.23042046
1591463;1482877870;BingoBoingo;lolfartz http://sli.mg/a/nibQmO
1591464;1482878018;BingoBoingo;"The amount of hospitalisations and appointments that have lead me to this point isn't a low number" doesn't see problem in being a fatso https://archive.is/37T8w#selection-85.279-85.377
1591465;1482878064;BingoBoingo;http://notyourgoodfatty.com/tess-munster-onesizefitshardlyanyone/
1591466;1482878304;mircea_popescu;and in other fictions, http://68.media.tumblr.com/d90db4a0d70dabb47bbb9806b3438a62/tumblr_oeuu9lQCsf1rrq7ino1_1280.jpg
1591467;1482878365;ben_vulpes;rather
1591468;1482878398;BingoBoingo;Jaundiced Pooh hate for alf https://archive.fo/GAN5N
1591469;1482878410;asciilifeform;lel
1591470;1482878524;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591442 << good habit, one which i would like to encourage where possible : not waiting for $ingredient
1591471;1482878524;a111;Logged on 2016-12-27 22:16 ben_vulpes: not indefinitely postpone releasing this vpatch while i wait for stan to release an ada cryptor and link that from cl
1591472;1482878542;asciilifeform;i will add that it is not clear that you want to link whatever in cl.
1591473;1482878582;ben_vulpes;aiui, my options are link or shell. is this incorrect?
1591474;1482878600;asciilifeform;'I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you / But I get the feeling that you don't like it / What's with all the screaming? / You like monkeys, you like ponies / Maybe you don't like monsters so much / Maybe I used too many monkeys / Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?' (tm) (r) (j. coulton)
1591475;1482878632;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes considering the only reason your lisp vtron even exists is because you're apparently fond of reimplementation,
1591476;1482878643;mircea_popescu;it stands to reason that no, those two aren't your only options.
1591477;1482878645;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you omitted the third and obvious option
1591478;1482878648;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu has it
1591479;1482878653;ben_vulpes;ah
1591480;1482878659;ben_vulpes;walked into that one.
1591481;1482878677;mircea_popescu;there is A LOT of strength in this, having a core of libs/utils that aren't merely written, nor merely reviewed, but TRANSLATED
1591482;1482878688;mircea_popescu;it is of the same type as the openbsd compiling for vaxen
1591483;1482878708;mircea_popescu;unlike - in fact opposite - to poetry, code actually improves through translation.
1591484;1482878770;ben_vulpes;"i did not choose the nih lifestyle, the nih lifestyle chose me"
1591485;1482878786;ben_vulpes;i kid, i kid.
1591486;1482878983;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/aHlQo#selection-687.1-687.111 << " Fatties don't do wine valleys & shabby-chic decor. We do pork rinds & farting in our own trucks. It's science."
1591487;1482878998;pete_dushenski;so thaaaat's what modern science is.
1591488;1482879006;jurov;ben_vulpes: if #t becomes dull some day, you can stir it by translating it to javascript
1591489;1482879022;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: you'll enjoy that link
1591490;1482879044;ben_vulpes;jurov: didn't polarbeard or whomever threaten us with a js v?
1591491;1482879054;mircea_popescu;i thought it was java
1591492;1482879067;ben_vulpes;dunno, don't care
1591493;1482879098;asciilifeform;jurov: with what do you run a js from a shell..?
1591494;1482879105;mircea_popescu;curl
1591495;1482879107;jurov;with node.js :)
1591496;1482879113;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what, you want /more/ radiation damage?
1591497;1482879129;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i'd genuinely lul over discovering that this exists
1591498;1482879138;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: lul away
1591499;1482879144;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you built a curl with js?!
1591500;1482879147;ben_vulpes;it is called as the man says "node.js"
1591501;1482879166;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you use curl on the box to call into the loopback where an apache server with lamp runs.
1591502;1482879171;ben_vulpes;it is used to further drive down the cost of human cogs crapping out lines of code
1591503;1482879182;ben_vulpes;because "HOLY GRAIL: ONE LANG IN BROWSER AND SERVER"
1591504;1482879189;mircea_popescu;i thought node.js is now called io.js anyway
1591505;1482879194;jurov;yep, google divorced js engine from chrome
1591506;1482879202;asciilifeform;iirc we had thread re 'node.js', in the context of corps with mandatory transsexual op etc
1591507;1482879204;phf;it's called v8, which is a case of talented programmers working for fuhrer
1591508;1482879208;jurov;or was it some kind of incest?
1591509;1482879273;jurov;as paperclip'd nazi scientists, they would work for anyone who allows them to, imo
1591510;1482879295;mircea_popescu;actually the crypto lib should be in js anyway. down with fucking ints.
1591511;1482879320;*;mircea_popescu has always wondered how much of the ecdsa push met with approval because people couldn't do bignum math anyway.
1591512;1482879334;phf;lars bak used to work on high performance smalltalk virtual machines, then java. v8 is still the case "ok, let me write some semblance of sane technology for this shit language of yours". since then everything that's happened around javascript is cargoculting v8
1591513;1482879412;phf;people bolt v8 on cli, called it node, make landing strips out of straw with it
1591514;1482879458;ben_vulpes;strikingly similar to some other description of how perl grew "object oriented programming"
1591515;1482879533;phf;most of the things seem to have sane core, which you can dig for for a long time, but it's there, and the reason is that ~doing anything at all~ is so much effort, everything that's done is a byproduct of some human being constructively spending energy at one time in one place.
1591516;1482879631;phf;kind of like cat-v, from recent memory, was a fledgling tmsr at one point: mp died, asciilifeform's left elsewhere, maggots still there
1591517;1482879707;asciilifeform;i'm not sold that it was 'fledgling tmsr' of whatever kind
1591518;1482879733;phf;asciilifeform: if you squint really hard, in the same sense that "scene was closest precursor to tmsr in computing before"
1591519;1482879805;BingoBoingo;One could say same about OpenBSD except their mp (Theo) was and stayed poor and stooges (Bob Beck) rallied to gatekeeper and treasury positions
1591520;1482879845;asciilifeform;wtf'd be a 'poor mp'
1591521;1482879931;mircea_popescu;at least in intent/intuition i can see the cat-v, wanted to be tmsr, didn't know what it wants or how it goes thesis.
1591522;1482879950;mircea_popescu;from what i read of the mythical founder, he read very much like a young naggum / gl
1591523;1482880360;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: would be a biter with insufficient venom to kill rather than emotionally wound
1591524;1482882034;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel: answered
1591525;1482882082;asciilifeform;somehow i thought that 'an mp' is almost definitionally a d00d who knows ~exactly~ what he wants, and thrusts in that direction, rather like the edge of a knife orients force
1591526;1482882101;asciilifeform;(as seen in the 'act from cause' thing etc)
1591527;1482882197;mircea_popescu;i don't know exactly what i want.
1591528;1482882197;mircea_popescu;i do know exactly what i don't want however.
1591529;1482882286;asciilifeform;all you need is a set of 'not' gates the width of your bus, then!111
1591530;1482882608;mircea_popescu;lol
1591531;1482884221;mats;https://www.cnet.com/news/police-request-echo-recordings-for-homicide-investigation
1591532;1482884274;asciilifeform;promisetronics ftw!
1591533;1482884284;asciilifeform;'Amazon stores all the voice recordings on its servers, in the hopes of using the data to improve its voice assistant services. While you can delete your personal voice data, there's still no way to prevent any recordings from being saved on a server.' << noshit
1591534;1482884296;mats;pucker up
1591535;1482884401;mats;(this is mildly relevant to the courts circus project)
1591536;1482884450;asciilifeform;'With every home in Bentonville hooked up to a smart meter that measures hourly electricity and water usage, police looked at the data and noticed Bates used an "excessive amount of water" during the alleged drowning.' << wtf, what was he drowned in, a dirigible hangar ?!
1591537;1482884542;mats;idiot reasoning
1591538;1482884571;mats;maybe bates had food poisoning and flushed a buncha times
1591539;1482884723;phf;i for one am looking for to a gattaca future, where i have to hire a standin for myself. to run amazon echo and nest and facebook and all the other things like that so that there aren't any irregularities
1591540;1482884951;mats;>... we discovered numerous devices that were used for "smart home" services, to include a "Nest" thermometer that is Wi-Fi connected and remotely controlled, a Honeywell alarm system that included door monitoring alarms and motion sensor in the living room, a wireless weather monitoring system outside on the back patio, and WeMo device in the garage area
1591541;1482884951;mats;for remote-activated lighting purposes that had not been opened yet.
1591542;1482885043;asciilifeform;i'm still waiting to learn of a corpse where the wifitronic burglar alarm 'mysteriously' recorded nothing, but i also suspect that we will not read about it in the völkischer beobachter.
1591543;1482886345;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/first-eulora-hackathon/ << Trilema - First Eulora Hackathon
1591544;1482886389;mircea_popescu;^ recommended not just because of the 85 bitcents in prizes
1591545;1482886615;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/veh-patch-hashes_and_errorsvpatch << CH - veh patch: hashes_and_errors.vpatch
1591546;1482886932;asciilifeform;neato ben_vulpes
1591547;1482886960;ben_vulpes;ty asciilifeform
1591548;1482887018;ben_vulpes;tried to dial back the programmer-imposed unnecessary complexity
1591549;1482889987;phf;that run is a bit weird
1591550;1482890176;phf;i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
1591551;1482890324;phf;also as a rule you don't really want to let string output streams escape their scope. they don't have standard type (one cmucl it's lisp::string-output-stream for example), so you can't test for it, and for all intents and purposes they act as incomplete builders: you can't do anything with them except get their value, so why not get value there and then?
1591552;1482890473;asciilifeform;ahahaha, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588427
1591553;1482890473;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 17:58 asciilifeform: common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
1591554;1482890758;phf;ben_vulpes: actually you're get-output-streaming twice there, first time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L24 and second time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L28
1591555;1482890939;asciilifeform;unrelated, ben_vulpes : how come you search the gpg output for 'bad signature' rather than 'good signature...' ?
1591556;1482890982;ben_vulpes;phf: ty, keep it coming if you don't mind, i must go async
1591557;1482891008;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: naively, i expect gpg to exit 0 if the signature is good
1591558;1482891014;asciilifeform;it'd seem to me that if i throw in a seal that crashes gpg, ben_vulpes's vtron will say 'good signature' !
1591559;1482891029;ben_vulpes;that inspection is only performed on a bad exit code
1591560;1482891094;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: if you can get gpg to crash without exiting zero, i misunderstand much about how this world works
1591561;1482891100;ben_vulpes;must go async, ty to you both
1591562;1482891118;phf;i think it's actually related. otherwise he'd have to get-output-stream-string there again. all the folly starts with that weird run
1591563;1482891273;adlai;ben_vulpes: dunno how this happened, but the link to http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/hashes_and_errorsvpatchben_vulpes.sig is missing a bunch of periods
1591564;1482891298;adlai;!~later tell ben_vulpes see preceding message
1591565;1482891299;jhvh1;adlai: The operation succeeded.
1591566;1482891433;phf;there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
1591567;1482891738;phf;http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L68 you don't really want to use handler-bind here. you want h-b only when you're working with the whole restart machinery. (handler-case (let ...) (external-program-error (error) ...)) is equivalent of the try/catch that you're doing here
1591568;1482891795;phf;http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html this is the canonical document on error handling in common lisp. it's long and dense, because powerful machinery
1591569;1482891909;phf;also in the same handler-bind you're losing a branch. if there's an error, but it's not "BAD signature", then the whole verify silently succeeds. you probably want to (error c) in the else branch to rethrow whatever
1591570;1482892057;phf;oh i guess you're checking process-exit-code again, even though you already caught an error for it. i think handler-bind is just confusing here. (handler-case (... t) (error (error) nil)) would've been much more obvious. "succeed and return t or fail and nil"
1591571;1482892483;phf;heh, this is straight up rubyism http://btcbase.org/patches/veh-genesis#L145. it would've been much cheaper to (defstruct hashed-path path hash) and so that later you don't have to poor man datastructure by (gethash 'path ...) (gethash 'hash ...) all over the place
1591572;1482892557;asciilifeform; unrelated: for BingoBoingo's entomological collection: http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/82115/very-particular-female-bathroom-issues
1591573;1482892752;phf;http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
1591574;1482892812;phf;also you don't want to concatenate paths, because that's how you end up losing separators and getting injection attacks and such. (merge-pathnames ...) will still work on strings, but will do the right thing
1591575;1482892878;phf;i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
1591576;1482893237;phf;the main folly are the unixisms all over the place. lisp works with a clear read/eval/print cycle. read means that you want to take outside input and convert it into a concrete data structure. so you shouldn't have a hash with strings in it. things like (string= "false" (gethash 'hash c)) should not happen so far down the call chain. your ~reader~ should convert the input data into a format that's easy to work with. the check could've
1591577;1482893238;phf;been (if (not (hashed-path-hash c)) ...) because you ~reader~ should've already massaged it all into the kind of data computers understand. btcbase uses nil for empty hashes, you could have :empty or whatever, but certainly not carying strings and dictionaries all over the place.
1591578;1482893649;asciilifeform;folx coming from type-poor langs tend to emit 'perlisms' for some time, yes
1591579;1482893836;phf;fwiw btcbase parses path component into a pathname, and the hash is (member nil bignum)
1591580;1482893952;phf;so instead of doing subseqs you can just (pathname-path ...), you check for "false" by a simple null check, you check for hash equality with eql or =
1591581;1482894094;phf;it's an "overkill" for a "unix script", because you throw all that data out anyway soon after constructing it. but in a lisp instance, when you already have all that data in the ~correct form~ you can start writing a dozen of different functions to analyze it, without getting bogged down on format trivia all over the place
1591582;1482894471;asciilifeform;pretty good likbez re what specifically 'non-perlistic' programming is .
1591583;1482895276;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << very much this. trusting gpg in this manner is irresponsible.
1591584;1482895276;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
1591585;1482895563;mircea_popescu;phf 's lisp critique service is actually pretty cool.
1591586;1482895770;mircea_popescu;"Obesity can be a disability in the EU. That makes it a sticky legal issue and given that she is the lone female, that makes it doubly so. If she's transgendered (which is possible given that she stands up apparently) then it's triply so. This is so intertwined in legal ramifications I can't imagine anything you can say or do (other than what you are already) that doesn't need a lawyer to make sure you don't end up in a suit.
1591587;1482895770;mircea_popescu;"  bwahahaha what the shit already.
1591588;1482895814;mircea_popescu;what the fuck happened to "can her in front of the whole staff, in the terms that she may seek employment once she conquers the requirements for preschool ; and if she wants a recomendation letter this is going in the first paragraph."
1591589;1482895852;mircea_popescu;"To whomever it may concern - I strongly advise against hiring the bearer of this letter, as she is not sufficiently qualified to take a piss."
1591590;1482895976;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591575 << no go ahead, there is a prize for completeness.
1591591;1482895976;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:41 phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
1591592;1482896890;ben_vulpes;adlai: wordpress, my friend. wordpress.
1591593;1482896897;ben_vulpes;phf: thank you very much
1591594;1482896937;BingoBoingo;wonderful specimen for the colletion alf
1591595;1482896976;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: fwiw it was linked from a 'what determines stall speed for aircraft' article
1591596;1482896986;asciilifeform;why? who could possibly know.
1591597;1482897067;BingoBoingo;lol
1591598;1482897178;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591550 << gotcha, it was an &rest before which may explain the contortions
1591599;1482897178;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 01:56 phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
1591600;1482897200;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591551 << sensible ty
1591601;1482897200;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 01:58 phf: also as a rule you don't really want to let string output streams escape their scope. they don't have standard type (one cmucl it's lisp::string-output-stream for example), so you can't test for it, and for all intents and purposes they act as incomplete builders: you can't do anything with them except get their value, so why not get value there and then?
1591602;1482897212;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591554 << yup, derp
1591603;1482897212;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:05 phf: ben_vulpes: actually you're get-output-streaming twice there, first time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L24 and second time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L28
1591604;1482897269;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << rgr
1591605;1482897269;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
1591606;1482897492;mircea_popescu;lol you know you don't have to roger each line :D
1591607;1482897510;mircea_popescu;you perl head you :D :D
1591608;1482897598;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591569 << i used http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/joF2F/?raw=true to convince myself that this is not true when writing the thing at first
1591609;1482897598;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:25 phf: also in the same handler-bind you're losing a branch. if there's an error, but it's not "BAD signature", then the whole verify silently succeeds. you probably want to (error c) in the else branch to rethrow whatever
1591610;1482897631;ben_vulpes;but i may catastrophically misunderstand
1591611;1482897838;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591571 << o hey, you found the oldest and most heinous sins i didn't fix
1591612;1482897838;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:34 phf: heh, this is straight up rubyism http://btcbase.org/patches/veh-genesis#L145. it would've been much cheaper to (defstruct hashed-path path hash) and so that later you don't have to poor man datastructure by (gethash 'path ...) (gethash 'hash ...) all over the place
1591613;1482898019;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591575 << no need to stop if there's more to say
1591614;1482898019;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:41 phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
1591615;1482898796;mircea_popescu;http://www.broomie.co.uk/full-event-president-elect-donald-trump-rally-in-cincinnati-oh-12116/#comment-320544 << in other lulz.
1591616;1482898843;asciilifeform;lel
1591617;1482898954;asciilifeform;'TRUMP hotels on the moon and mars, for starters. For those who want to ENGINEER this (and much, much more), email me at: gabriel valeth laddel @ gmail dot com, using the subject line “MAGA: THE SPACE RACE IS ON”'
1591618;1482898955;asciilifeform;wat.
1591619;1482898978;asciilifeform;i suppose d00d finally scored that lsd or whatever it was he lacked.
1591620;1482899104;mircea_popescu;why's everyone always skip over venus ? mars is too hot ; the moon is too small. neither make any fucking sense.
1591621;1482899111;*;ben_vulpes reconsidering that masamoone box
1591622;1482899119;mircea_popescu;other than well chosen jupiter satellites, venus is the ticket.
1591623;1482899134;ben_vulpes;mars is too hot?
1591624;1482899143;mircea_popescu;yes.
1591625;1482899161;ben_vulpes;unscreened solar flux or something?
1591626;1482899167;ben_vulpes;or "rad-hot"
1591627;1482899169;mircea_popescu;yes it's tiny and bs.
1591628;1482899188;ben_vulpes;that
1591629;1482899191;ben_vulpes;is what she said
1591630;1482899195;mircea_popescu;lmao
1591631;1482899233;mircea_popescu;srsly though, what is it, 1% of earth pressure ?
1591632;1482899248;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591550 << sbcl makes a style warning about &optional and &keys together. i lack the intuition to override the compiler here, does this weaken typechecking and is it worthwhile?
1591633;1482899248;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 01:56 phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
1591634;1482899287;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc the longest-enduring venus probe croaked after 1h. from overheat.
1591635;1482899302;ben_vulpes;that just means we need floating cities
1591636;1482899308;ben_vulpes;bespin now
1591637;1482899329;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am not responsible for bad engineering.
1591638;1482899353;mircea_popescu;point is, there are expensive things and cheap things. compensating for a lack of atmosphere is fucking expensive. properly cooling is nothing compared.
1591639;1482899381;asciilifeform;how do you 'properly cool' when ambient atmosphere is oven
1591640;1482899419;mircea_popescu;we got all these global warming experts, they'll capture the co2 or something
1591641;1482899426;asciilifeform;lolk.
1591642;1482899493;ben_vulpes;brin mentioned a trick with endothermic lasers
1591643;1482899499;ben_vulpes;nfi if such exist
1591644;1482899568;mircea_popescu;btw, what's the latest in crackpottery re venus lack of magnetosphere ?
1591645;1482899624;asciilifeform;no field, no magnetosphere
1591646;1482899629;asciilifeform;no crackpottery needed
1591647;1482899639;mircea_popescu;yes but is it because it spins backwards ?
1591648;1482899646;asciilifeform;mno, because solid
1591649;1482899676;mircea_popescu;could be that it;s really a spaceship.
1591650;1482899684;asciilifeform;a block of cheese.
1591651;1482899694;mircea_popescu;wasn't that the moon ?
1591652;1482899701;asciilifeform;can have 2!11!1
1591653;1482899732;ben_vulpes;lol stan having none of it
1591654;1482899757;mircea_popescu;but for srs, it's not actually known why the fuck.
1591655;1482899783;mircea_popescu;it does have volcanic activity, so it's not that. it DOES spin, though perhaps too slow.
1591656;1482899797;asciilifeform;phun phakt: as an undergrad i worked for the d00d who curated the 'Вега' probes. but he was already, naturally, in usa, and sorta old, nutty.
1591657;1482899805;phf;ben_vulpes: (if (search ...) (error ...) (what-happens-here???))
1591658;1482899859;phf;oh oh i see what you're saying
1591659;1482899939;*;ben_vulpes shrugs
1591660;1482899954;ben_vulpes;i read "handler-case destroys the call stack" and thought to myself "if i can avoid that, i probably should".
1591661;1482900009;phf;well, it's only interesting if you're going to restart, otherwise..
1591662;1482900041;ben_vulpes;otherwise may as well nuke everything in the unrecoverable branch
1591663;1482900178;phf;well, more important whose reporting the failure. if you want to pass through to the user the fact that there's a shell call out somewhere and it has all kinds of mechanisms. but verify should probably speak for itself in its own terms.
1591664;1482900324;phf;but your bad-signature is an external-program-error, so the whole things is a swiss chese
1591665;1482900402;ben_vulpes;i imagined an inheritance chain looking like error->external-program-error->{bad-signature, no-gpg-data, ...}
1591666;1482900460;ben_vulpes;probably pointless complexity that could be snipped in favor of simple errors everywhere?
1591667;1482900479;phf;no, that's no the issue, it's more like a complexity along arbitrary lines
1591668;1482900550;phf;you have a set of (incomplete and adhoc, but there) crypto operations. they speak their own language. they can succeed, they can fail, but none of that has to do with "external programs". that's a different set of operations that deals with unix etc. that speaks its own language
1591669;1482900613;ben_vulpes;so that there are a set of operations that just happen to be implemented with "external programs" is no reason their errors should inherit from "external program" errors
1591670;1482900622;phf;right
1591671;1482900624;ben_vulpes;k
1591672;1482900680;ben_vulpes;"swiss cheese" then meaning something like "notions are touching each other for no reason other than that's how the air bubbles formed"?
1591673;1482900688;phf;yeap
1591674;1482900695;ben_vulpes;coooool
1591675;1482900738;ben_vulpes;thanks again
1591676;1482900906;ben_vulpes;clim clim clim
1591677;1482900945;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: how do i know you're not running the longest and lowest-dough scam with these masamune boxen?
1591678;1482900959;asciilifeform;clim voroshilov.
1591679;1482901006;gabriel_laddel_p;!!key ben_vulpes
1591680;1482901006;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA.asc
1591681;1482901037;gabriel_laddel_p;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591621 < and how exactly do you go about finding blindly ambitious youngsters?
1591682;1482901037;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 04:25 ben_vulpes reconsidering that masamoone box
1591683;1482901082;ben_vulpes;are you describing yourself or people you want to respond to whatever that was asciilifeform quoted?
1591684;1482901084;gabriel_laddel_p;Incidentally, it is pronounced "maza-mune". Yes, yes, as you wrote is technically how they say it in japan, but it sounds stupid.
1591685;1482901095;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: it's a pun on moon hotels
1591686;1482901113;gabriel_laddel_p;oic
1591687;1482901131;phf;heh, i also pronounce it japanese style, ma-sa-mu-ne
1591688;1482901148;gabriel_laddel_p;phf: sounds absurd, doesn't it?
1591689;1482901162;gabriel_laddel_p;totally ka-wai-eee
1591690;1482901167;ben_vulpes;i am epically confused, how else would it be pronounced
1591691;1482901169;gabriel_laddel_p;or something idk
1591692;1482901182;ben_vulpes;neeee sooo desu
1591693;1482901220;ben_vulpes;anyways, otaku gaijin shit aside a) do you have videos of this thing working or am i supposed to believe that it does because you now have a key you can use and b) how much for the whole circus, delivered
1591694;1482901269;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: will be (figuring out how to, and then) sending you an encrypted gpg thingy tomorrow.
1591695;1482901284;gabriel_laddel_p;it'll have a link to a video.
1591696;1482901294;ben_vulpes;pricing that sensitive, eh?
1591697;1482901302;phf;also sbcl got some balls. they've been adding all this stuff, don't do this, don't do that. i suppose you can either muffle it, or just not optional the second argument and pass nil everytime there's nothing. fwiw your code always has an argument list, so it's non issue
1591698;1482901319;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: not at all: 410 + the price of the hardware.
1591699;1482901340;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: does your thing have a www ?
1591700;1482901366;ben_vulpes;well i'm just on tenterhooks waiting to learn what's so cryptworthy
1591701;1482901379;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: I have 4 other people who want them/one.  Need to organize my thoughts, stop reading about [redacted] and actually respond to their emails.
1591702;1482901387;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: no, and it won't.
1591703;1482901404;asciilifeform;wai not, gabriel_laddel_p ? e.g., FUCKGOATS, has a www
1591704;1482901424;asciilifeform;mpex -- has www. deedbot. etc
1591705;1482901469;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: to move fiat monies into republican coffers. You all get free reign to sell masamune and take 100% of profits past buying the first one.
1591706;1482901482;gabriel_laddel_p;I don't want someone to be able to look up a webpage and debate you about what it is that they get.
1591707;1482901495;gabriel_laddel_p;they get what they get from $PERSON_WHO_ORDERED_FROM_ME
1591708;1482901504;asciilifeform;fwiw whoever wants can also make own FUCKGOATS and sell.
1591709;1482901518;asciilifeform;yet it has www, because wtf, how else anyone knows what it is that is for sale.
1591710;1482901584;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: say that you derp around with MGL_MAT and make a neat handwriting recognition module like the HP Compaq TC1100 had.
1591711;1482901595;gabriel_laddel_p;You should be able to charge whatever and "they" can suck it.
1591712;1482901615;*;mircea_popescu chuckles privately at all teh folk imparting phonetic content through frowning peculiarly at everyday alphabetic notation. oh mu-ne is it!
1591713;1482901657;gabriel_laddel_p;mk back to CA.
1591714;1482901737;mircea_popescu;oh speaking of which, gabriel_laddel_p why not packaging fuckgoats with the masamunes ?
1591715;1482901740;mircea_popescu;oh im too late huh.
1591716;1482901763;asciilifeform;also gabriel_laddel_p's boxen flying off the shelf, but still no permanent postbox..?
1591717;1482901786;ben_vulpes;someone's going to have to fuel the meth habit for another month to pop this one
1591718;1482901795;asciilifeform;and no ransomed old pgp key..?
1591719;1482901813;mircea_popescu;dude he sold 4 boxes, if he makes enough for a decent meal out of that he's ahead of the game.
1591720;1482901830;ben_vulpes;so he says, so he says.
1591721;1482901867;asciilifeform;i'd still like to know wtf it was that he even sells. having a www would help...
1591722;1482901890;mircea_popescu;he apparently wants to sell p2p, big whoop.
1591723;1482901896;asciilifeform;from the l0gz, it looks like a shitlinux with sbcl preinstalled (big fat breakthrough?)
1591724;1482901932;ben_vulpes;phf: ty
1591725;1482901957;ben_vulpes;now if only i could find a graceful way to muffle compiler warnings for functions...
1591726;1482901962;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform suspicion is unwarranted for the following reason : if he was aware he's packaging crap, he'd not be courting you ; or him. because unlike him you do have wwws. so either he's patently insane or else got something. in either case, a few hundy, not the end of the world. a decent escort is ~same.
1591727;1482901972;asciilifeform;i have nothing in particular against the d00d, but it is quite genuinely unclear to me where the 'value added' is.
1591728;1482901990;mircea_popescu;same is true about apple.
1591729;1482901993;ben_vulpes;why in the not gentooing your own boxes
1591730;1482902004;ben_vulpes;and all the hours spent changing belts and capplugs
1591731;1482902013;ben_vulpes;as you yourself pointed out
1591732;1482902035;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it isn't optional
1591733;1482902047;asciilifeform;if you don't, you are stuck using some variant of crapple.
1591734;1482902071;ben_vulpes;no i'm going to plug my ears say neener and make it gabriel_laddel's problem
1591735;1482902083;mircea_popescu;the original proposition was "hooker-ready laptop". i can see the "value add".
1591736;1482902099;ben_vulpes;actually whole thing is likely just a ploy to get pre-rooted boxen into republican ops
1591737;1482902104;asciilifeform;clim is 'hooker ready' ?!
1591738;1482902124;ben_vulpes;physicist, maybe
1591739;1482902126;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform masamune;d better be. ben_vulpes hey, find the hole, get a prize.
1591740;1482902169;asciilifeform;ubuntu/whateveritwas autoupdater.
1591741;1482902173;asciilifeform;do i win the prize.
1591742;1482902189;mircea_popescu;it wasn't ubuntu based was it ?
1591743;1482902194;asciilifeform;i've nfi
1591744;1482902198;asciilifeform;now if it had a www...
1591745;1482902200;mircea_popescu;then wut.
1591746;1482902212;ben_vulpes;still gotta fuckin quarantine the thing when it shows up.
1591747;1482902444;ben_vulpes;new topic
1591748;1482902458;ben_vulpes;guitarists who type a lot: do you always trim both hands?
1591749;1482902532;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes is guitarist ?
1591750;1482902564;ben_vulpes;i play at least 30 minutes 4 times a week
1591751;1482902571;asciilifeform;neato, i had nfi.
1591752;1482902613;ben_vulpes;some 1.5 years back i leapt off the couch and demanded a hand-held instrument to awaken dormant pathways
1591753;1482902620;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's pet critter has a guitar, but it has not been touched in decade+, might crumble into dust if unpacked.
1591754;1482902643;ben_vulpes;girl provided a guitar in short order
1591755;1482902654;ben_vulpes;so now i play guitar poorly and frequently
1591756;1482902667;asciilifeform;iirc somebody sells electric guitar now that is just a stick with painted-on 'strings', and a comp
1591757;1482902676;phf;deep purple covers on a loop?
1591758;1482902685;asciilifeform;switch on, play by imaginarily plucking.
1591759;1482902697;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: "guitar hero"!
1591760;1482902707;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: no, not the toy, a tunable/playable thing
1591761;1482902720;asciilifeform;but i fuhget the vendor
1591762;1482902728;asciilifeform;something chinese.
1591763;1482902749;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: iirc the longest-enduring venus probe croaked after 1h. from overheat. << Or corrosion. Place requires ph balancing
1591764;1482902756;asciilifeform;for some reason i picture the 'baliste' in 'dune' as working like this.
1591765;1482902766;ben_vulpes;baliset i think
1591766;1482902773;asciilifeform;baliset
1591767;1482902774;asciilifeform;aha
1591768;1482902784;asciilifeform;kbd eggog
1591769;1482902799;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: d00d has little plastic models of the probez in his office, would go on and on..
1591770;1482902877;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuBSvNtlAq8 << oblig
1591771;1482903027;ben_vulpes;holy shit i forgot picard was in that
1591772;1482903034;phf;not enough reverb. i always thought baliset being a 70s instrument, considering that they had those portable source of energy in their shields, would be a kind of guitar moog
1591773;1482903096;ben_vulpes;a shit i'm going to have to rewatch this.
1591774;1482903293;asciilifeform;phf: funnily enough, iirc the item used in the film actually fit this description.
1591775;1482903436;asciilifeform;and aha, ben_vulpes , recall during conf 4, mircea_popescu playing the baliset, we poured the waterz...
1591776;1482903567;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: aha and the isis men kept trying to fuck the goats :D
1591777;1482903631;ben_vulpes;phf: (cmd &optional args input)
1591778;1482903645;ben_vulpes;which brings me to: "when positional, and when keyword?"
1591779;1482903694;*;BingoBoingo starting to think that mebbe Venus just needs a moon
1591780;1482904155;phf;ben_vulpes: i think best way to answer that question is to read a lot of existing code from different backgrounds (pre-2000s code, famous people code, etc.). my rule of thumb is that you use optional if ~at call site~ it's still obvious what the argument means. otherwise you promote it to keywoard. (run "foo" `("-p" "bar")) makes sense, but (run "foo" `("-p" "bar") stream) you start guessing. is it input stream? is it output stream?
1591781;1482904156;phf;etc.
1591782;1482904223;phf;in this case, if you want to avoid the warning and not fuck with muffling, i'd stick with (cmd args &key input). fwiw that's what sbcl's run-program does already
1591783;1482904325;ben_vulpes;verily
1591784;1482904326;ben_vulpes;okay ty
1591785;1482904364;ben_vulpes;still means one has to (run "foo" `())
1591786;1482904378;*;BingoBoingo wonders how many hamplanets need be flung into Venusuvian orbit in order to make a credible moon that spins that bitch around faster.
1591787;1482904416;phf;yes, but you never do, also it's (run "foo" nil) or if you insist (run "foo" ()) though that last one looks funny
1591788;1482904434;phf;you as in you in your code
1591789;1482904470;ben_vulpes;right
1591790;1482904471;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all --currency eur
1591791;1482904478;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 916.4216, vol: 10049.25721374 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 882.63592, vol: 272.12183 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 943.6581, vol: 2498140.26720000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 909.012, vol: 9322.43803212 | Volume-weighted last average: 943.414513512
1591792;1482904486;ben_vulpes;mk all very sensible ty phf
1591793;1482904486;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all --currency gbp
1591794;1482904491;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCGBP last: 779.91696, vol: 10048.70134875 | BTC-E BTCGBP last: 749.2434264, vol: 7648.73621 | BTCChina BTCGBP last: 803.843997, vol: 2498327.20560000 | Kraken BTCGBP last: 770.0, vol: 41.40903382 | Volume-weighted last average: 803.581896386
1591795;1482904602;BingoBoingo;My how the euro has fallen
1591796;1482906588;mats;!~calc [ticker --last --currency USD --market bitstamp] / [ticker --last --currency EUR --market bitstamp]
1591797;1482906590;jhvh1;mats: 959.0 / 916.8999 = 1.045915699194645
1591798;1482907080;mats;!~calc [ticker --last --currency USD --market btcchina] / [ticker --last --currency EUR --market btcchina]
1591799;1482907083;jhvh1;mats: 989.763819 / 943.057407 = 1.0495265841223598
1591800;1482907535;mats;https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-27/singapore-defaults-seen-as-bellwether-for-asia-distress-in-2017
1591801;1482907638;mats;betting on btcusd not going to 1k is turning out to be quite the nail biter
1591802;1482907775;ben_vulpes;mats: what kinda timeframe are you biting your nails over?
1591803;1482907813;mats;the bet settles on 01 january 2017
1591804;1482908338;ben_vulpes;ah i see
1591805;1482908467;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591748 <<< playing classical stuff?
1591806;1482908467;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 05:20 ben_vulpes: guitarists who type a lot: do you always trim both hands?
1591807;1482908490;ben_vulpes;davout: no, simple rhythm stuff
1591808;1482908515;davout;what do you need your nails for then? get yourself a pick or something
1591809;1482908541;ben_vulpes;compulsive nail tidying is 2x as expensive if you do both hands
1591810;1482908590;ben_vulpes;sounds like davout thinks "just trim your hands evenly, weirdo"
1591811;1482908641;davout;i don't get it, the expensive part for me is "finding the nail clipper", not the "clipping nails"
1591812;1482908699;ben_vulpes;but do you reticulate the splines
1591813;1482908766;davout;what is that?
1591814;1482908778;ben_vulpes;sim city 3k reference
1591815;1482908784;ben_vulpes;"Reticulating the splines..."
1591816;1482908791;ben_vulpes;in the loading screen
1591817;1482908801;ben_vulpes;bad joke, dun sweat it
1591818;1482908855;davout;yeah, googled it, got "Reticulating splines | The Sims Wiki | Fandom powered by Wikia", wtf levels increased :D
1591819;1482908995;ben_vulpes;in retrospect, the expensive part is having mismatched nail lengths
1591820;1482909015;ben_vulpes;i have utterly nfi how women put up with all of the ornamental crap
1591821;1482910412;davout;go to the salon, get some other woman to do it for her
1591822;1482910429;davout;on daddy's dime == win
1591823;1482910729;ben_vulpes;my internal popesculator says "what, wimminz are for ornamenting!"
1591824;1482910793;mats;i've always thought it was weird that english speakers use 'daddy' but not 'mommy'
1591825;1482910802;mats;in this context
1591826;1482910846;ben_vulpes;mats: does 'mommy' typically hold the purse strings among yr people?
1591827;1482910895;ben_vulpes;also are talking fathers, husbands, sugar daddies or 'beta buxx'?
1591828;1482910933;mats;i'd say its 1:1
1591829;1482911010;mats;http://shanghaiist.com/2016/09/01/chinese_women_control_household_finances.php << seems to agree
1591830;1482911038;mats;i mean, i grew up in sv, so i live in a weird in-between of us and cn culture
1591831;1482911073;ben_vulpes;heh the sv/us conflation
1591832;1482911145;mats;i gtfo soon as i was an adult, to live outside of the reality bubble
1591833;1482911253;mats;didn't turn out to be that different, the new money here is just young white dudes that wear brooks brothers instead of uniqlo
1591834;1482911282;davout;"In addition to the headline finding, the study also discovered that the more women earn, the greater say they have over the family's financial management." <<< such finding
1591835;1482911293;ben_vulpes;new money is uniformly uninteresting
1591836;1482911332;ben_vulpes;old money moderately interesting if you're trying to marry into it
1591837;1482911370;ben_vulpes;mats: what part of us is "here"?
1591838;1482911396;mats;boston
1591839;1482911457;ben_vulpes;oya
1591840;1482911468;ben_vulpes;dunno that's too far outside of teh bubb
1591841;1482911521;mats;if i'm being honest i wanted to get away from the massive numbers of asians
1591842;1482911531;ben_vulpes;well i was going to ask if you were in the boston cn wot
1591843;1482911545;mats;but now i miss it, funny how that works
1591844;1482911630;ben_vulpes;your very own tiger mom
1591845;1482911641;ben_vulpes;infinite easy payments of everything you make
1591846;1482911730;mats;i don't follow
1591847;1482911858;ben_vulpes;cn reputation for 'tiger moms' among usasians
1591848;1482911867;ben_vulpes;chinese moms control the purse strings
1591849;1482911882;ben_vulpes;mats misses 'home culture'
1591850;1482911897;mats;o
1591851;1482912070;ben_vulpes;in other "how the mighty have fallen"s: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8026-a_story_of_discrimination_and_unfairness
1591852;1482912144;mats;there's a sense of other-ness wherever i'm at, in new england
1591853;1482912170;mats;eyeballs on me all day when i'm on the cape
1591854;1482912180;mats;its not as bad in the city
1591855;1482912210;ben_vulpes;"honey, don't /look/, but..."
1591856;1482913190;mats;i'd like to move to hk or tw before i'm 30 but it seems to be getting more expensive all the time
1591857;1482914098;davout;mats: hows that specific to these places?
1591858;1482914261;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591573 << i'll have to think on how to fix this
1591859;1482914261;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
1591860;1482915240;mats;davout: well, its actually getting cheaper to live in, say, sf or boston, in the short-term, due to high rises going up
1591861;1482915266;davout;you mean wages?
1591862;1482915268;mats;its not really specific to hk or tw, and tw is actually more affordable comparatively
1591863;1482915300;mats;i mean luxury residences pushing prices down
1591864;1482915350;mats;new ones
1591865;1482916454;davout;oic
1591866;1482918779;mats;huh, upon closer inspection, it looks like rent and housing prices are declining in tw and hk too
1591867;1482920719;mats;http://www.cybersquirrel1.com
1591868;1482921447;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << not a good idea, because if you pass something clearsigned/encrypted, gpg will decrypt it to stdout, so you end up parsing dangerous user input
1591869;1482921447;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
1591870;1482921548;jurov;use batchmode and just ignore stdout (unless you need it)
1591871;1482922422;jurov;venus colonization is most feasible in the atmosphere, there's a layer with ~20C temperature, ~1atm pressure, breathable N2-O2 atmosphere is lifting gas, you can have 30hour days by surfing jet streams ...
1591872;1482922445;jurov;... and nice clouds of concentrated sulphuric acid :)
1591873;1482922777;jurov;http://www.space.com/29140-venus-airship-cloud-cities-incredible-technology.html
1591874;1482931922;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591824 << it's "daddy's dime" and "mom's basement" -- perhaps it's masculine when going out and feminine when staying in
1591875;1482931922;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 07:39 mats: i've always thought it was weird that english speakers use 'daddy' but not 'mommy'
1591876;1482932544;diana_coman;!!unrate Mafroz
1591877;1482932545;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/B3jf1/?raw=true
1591878;1482932568;diana_coman;!!v 8432836915E56942BC2E87B0D901EA7E5FF583F326FAD9D7810299020266FD8C
1591879;1482932568;deedbot;diana_coman unrated Mafroz.
1591880;1482932591;diana_coman;!!unrate Zakorus123
1591881;1482932593;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/UQlsg/?raw=true
1591882;1482932612;diana_coman;!!v 953696A41F310BFCB23DD04FFCAFFF6281F6AC68C19F8C592FEE502E519E283D
1591883;1482932613;deedbot;diana_coman unrated Zakorus123.
1591884;1482932630;diana_coman;!!unrate bitnumus
1591885;1482932632;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/SoIRT/?raw=true
1591886;1482932649;diana_coman;!!v 239FBAC33E2DDE0241066C4E2651ED0683BA39EBC9B042A51B3F7391AA70104E
1591887;1482932650;deedbot;diana_coman unrated bitnumus.
1591888;1482932663;diana_coman;!!unrate bitbargain
1591889;1482932665;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/uVq8C/?raw=true
1591890;1482932683;diana_coman;!!v 162C02F9A4391A31A310B11C4878EB6AED672679ABABBBCB7096083A7146E0F2
1591891;1482932683;deedbot;diana_coman unrated bitbargain.
1591892;1482932701;diana_coman;!!unrate vtheimpaler
1591893;1482932702;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/To2R5/?raw=true
1591894;1482932719;diana_coman;!!v 4DEC38CA63CDC19839DF0F87A1335BCA41AB5D58CA62F85C50F3899ACF6AFBCA
1591895;1482932720;deedbot;diana_coman unrated vtheimpaler.
1591896;1482933478;diana_coman;!!rate danielpbarron 2 tinkerer of bots, secretive euloran elder
1591897;1482933479;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/jCEr0/?raw=true
1591898;1482933495;diana_coman;!!v E1BB3082160070D38C628A751D19DD83C5D6D1C994AF55BD4E0BF8C1F6B80B95
1591899;1482933495;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of danielpbarron from 1 to 2 << tinkerer of bots, secretive euloran elder
1591900;1482933564;diana_coman;!!rate mod6 3 very helpful and lots of very useful work done
1591901;1482933566;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/3UzQb/?raw=true
1591902;1482933582;diana_coman;!!v 8A37F9F52B21B52E4DFB0E53D54B6516A012FE12C4EF112210AC7C33741669EE
1591903;1482933583;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of mod6 from 1 to 3 << very helpful and lots of very useful work done
1591904;1482933728;diana_coman;!!rate hanbot 2 sharp writing, helpful euloran
1591905;1482933730;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/E7Ffw/?raw=true
1591906;1482933748;diana_coman;!!v 068369D894E9FDACDD0ADDE7DA472C3783EE038A7BD7CDE58A28C75E1CCF43E6
1591907;1482933748;deedbot;diana_coman rated hanbot 2 << sharp writing, helpful euloran
1591908;1482933763;davout;diana_coman forgot about hanbot's nice password suggestions
1591909;1482933809;shinohai;kek
1591910;1482933948;diana_coman;eh, selected points, lol
1591911;1482934421;trinque;clearly was just testing her new FUCKGOATS
1591912;1482934537;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CBBB1104DCE81D9FED18429F378EF9FB623BD973F9B1D6A18A6023A70078F40E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.77 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1591913;1482934537;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/32652A860DF501D08376A8FF97AF452915B8916DD7D6F5F97D33250D3E7F72F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.223 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.223 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1591914;1482934538;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9A34020BD86CCFD722610615BCEA3BC872B7161FCFEB84222CAAD4208C7869B5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.14.77 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.14.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1591915;1482934538;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/89B9986669FC0DDDC234C7D8D296527FC8336AD24BDCEABF0945DCA3E0F4425F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.129 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
1591916;1482934538;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C1E22BC13AEE395691A9E2C5119C1DDEFCB1547805C81E1B70E6885083DFF48 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1735...8443 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '196.25.190.4 (ssh-rsa key from 196.25.190.4 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
1591917;1482938138;davout;trinque: clearly
1591918;1482938186;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, "¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "es una pagina web"
1591919;1482938496;shinohai;"¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "Es una puta maldita pero muy útil"
1591920;1482938880;mircea_popescu;lol
1591921;1482938924;mircea_popescu;and now i shall proceed to put to electronic paper my definitive solution for global warming - both the current hallucinated kind as well as any other.
1591922;1482939296;*;shinohai prepares to fill his liberal tears mug
1591923;1482942399;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/163690110BB2F01EE38E324C90C6FB9BA5AED5D15A8C51E69FBF8B1803EC5626 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1622...2987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.42.115.88 (ssh-rsa key from 195.42.115.88 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (doofaberglucklich. DE)
1591924;1482942400;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3BBBCBDD644D1D80A7C425768216B6423C800AF2652EC7E804BE35A2E98D19C0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...5397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.233.156.82 (ssh-rsa key from 91.233.156.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (91-233-156-82.interkonekt.pl. PL MA)
1591925;1482942526;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591924 << lel, yet another 'mikrotik routeros', lost count by now of how many
1591926;1482942526;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 16:26 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3BBBCBDD644D1D80A7C425768216B6423C800AF2652EC7E804BE35A2E98D19C0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...5397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.233.156.82 (ssh-rsa key from 91.233.156.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (91-233-156-82.interkonekt.pl. PL MA)
1591927;1482942533;asciilifeform;(not debian. its own idiocy.)
1591928;1482942696;asciilifeform;the thing to observe here is that, e.g., mikrotik, should be susceptible to the debian treatment (enumerate the possible factors, then shoot)
1591929;1482942741;asciilifeform;ditto the huawei boxes, the voip thing, whatever it was called, and the dozen or so other examples i catalogued in recent months
1591930;1482942755;asciilifeform;now if someone here knew where to get a hold of even one !
1591931;1482942757;mircea_popescu;heh. most of ;em i'd expect
1591932;1482942761;mircea_popescu;!!key Framedragger
1591933;1482942761;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/E2DF986D58A0D3876BA165FACC0510AAFD8AF4B7.asc
1591934;1482942763;asciilifeform;all i need is 1.
1591935;1482942768;asciilifeform;of a particular type.
1591936;1482942777;mircea_popescu;trinque nothing loads ?
1591937;1482942787;asciilifeform;(not necessarily the physical box ! the os ought to be enough )
1591938;1482942819;asciilifeform;each successful shot is potentially several thousand popped keys.
1591939;1482942825;asciilifeform;(could be -- hundreds of thousand)
1591940;1482942843;mircea_popescu;trinque eh nm random burp.
1591941;1482942855;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dun think it was ever that deployed.
1591942;1482942874;asciilifeform;which it
1591943;1482942879;mircea_popescu;mikrotik
1591944;1482942895;asciilifeform;what do you mean 'was ever deployed'
1591945;1482942902;asciilifeform;they're pestilentially common
1591946;1482942947;asciilifeform;15`645	2.3.0_Mikrotik_v2.9 << from mircea_popescu's mega-tally
1591947;1482942969;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C1E22BC13AEE395691A9E2C5119C1DDEFCB1547805C81E1B70E6885083DFF48 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1464...6423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '196.25.190.4 (ssh-rsa key from 196.25.190.4 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
1591948;1482942985;asciilifeform;(and that's just 1 ver; iirc various others identify as plain ssh)
1591949;1482943013;mircea_popescu;10k in a 20mn sample makes 100s of k's unlikely dunnit ?
1591950;1482943026;asciilifeform;in this case -- yes
1591951;1482943045;mircea_popescu;~that~ deployed, as in, i'd be surprised if 50k exist altogerher
1591952;1482943126;asciilifeform;huawei, on other hand!
1591953;1482943143;asciilifeform;or the 462`750 ROSSSH
1591954;1482943144;mircea_popescu;oya
1591955;1482943145;asciilifeform;or.
1591956;1482943148;mircea_popescu;right.
1591957;1482943153;mircea_popescu;huawei especially.
1591958;1482943159;mircea_popescu;i think they're fucking calenders.
1591959;1482943173;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591868 << well, that's why ultimately -- flags, eventually it starts looking like the original signature of run-program that he's wrapping
1591960;1482943173;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 10:37 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << not a good idea, because if you pass something clearsigned/encrypted, gpg will decrypt it to stdout, so you end up parsing dangerous user input
1591961;1482943323;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tropos , i recall now, was the other big one.
1591962;1482943352;asciilifeform;(it displays unremarkable ssh hello, the litmus for it uses the ssl cert that the boxes also display on 443)
1591963;1482943385;mircea_popescu;pretty sure multiple do this.
1591964;1482943402;asciilifeform;the interesting bit re tropos is that it is not a konsoomer box, but infrastructural (isp, public wifi, gsm, utility sensors) and for some reason popular in orc world
1591965;1482943428;mircea_popescu;yea
1591966;1482943486;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1733 << as seen here, good chunk of the first N ssh keys to pop were tropos boxen.
1591967;1482943755;asciilifeform;the other interesting experiment, yet undone, is to generate ssh, ssl, pgp, etc. keys on some of the other os with known-broken rng -- e.g., freebsd 2010-2014 (or when was it), possibly other
1591968;1482943760;asciilifeform;then enumerate factors.
1591969;1482943766;asciilifeform;then -- debianize.
1591970;1482943881;asciilifeform;one of the hidden evils of 'of course generating key takes 10 minutes!' traditional entropy starvation -- is that nobody expects to be able to do the test where you generate 10 billion keys and make sure that the resulting keys have gcd of 1
1591971;1482943911;asciilifeform;whereas this is elementarily reasonable.
1591972;1482943928;Framedragger;also, as you noted earlier, there's a good chance a bunch of ssh *client* keys were generated on those machines, too, so also possible to try to bruteforce-login with generated keys (to servers which have broken rngs)
1591973;1482943936;asciilifeform;Framedragger: this also. but -- slow.
1591974;1482943943;Framedragger;yeah.
1591975;1482943957;asciilifeform;this is for when mircea_popescu gets his botnet.
1591976;1482944080;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1591977;1482944292;*;asciilifeform since release of FUCKGOATS, spent much time studying 'serpent' block cipher.
1591978;1482944297;asciilifeform;it is pretty interesting imho.
1591979;1482944304;asciilifeform;for instance, there are no tables.
1591980;1482944321;asciilifeform;(and so, no cache-sensitivity.)
1591981;1482944428;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HQmMH/?raw=true << example in ada. < 700 ln.
1591982;1482944963;asciilifeform;the political history is also rather interesting (it was on track to winning the 'aes competition', received fewest thumbs-down votes from the panelists, but mysteriously torpedoed by usg and did not win)
1591983;1482945726;mircea_popescu;serpent, eh ?
1591984;1482946300;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-fix-global-warming/ << Trilema - How to fix global warming ?
1591985;1482947093;mircea_popescu;and in other unixes bathroom news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e9ad40055776fd92557b63fdad30f7ea/tumblr_odcvoq0Mht1uk5y45o1_1280.jpg
1591986;1482947185;davout;asciilifeform: lol, even frouikipedia concurs
1591987;1482947188;davout;"Une controverse existe, selon laquelle Serpent n'aurait pas été choisi comme AES, car casser ses clés aurait été beaucoup trop complexe pour les services de renseignement civils et militaires. De plus, même dans une version simplifiée il reste robuste. Par exemple Rijndael est très souvent implémenté dans TLS en version simplifiée sur 14 de ses 16 tours pour des raisons de rapidité, mais aussi d'analyses de données. Alors que Serpent
1591988;1482947188;davout; doit être abaissé à au moins 9 tours pour fournir un niveau identique d'exploitation."
1591989;1482947212;asciilifeform;davout: it was a loud, public wank, ~impossible to 'unhappen' to any reasonable degree
1591990;1482947222;asciilifeform;more or less simply declared 'history, done with'
1591991;1482947244;davout;"some terrorists found it controversial"
1591992;1482947275;mircea_popescu;there's certainly worse options than serpent.
1591993;1482947288;asciilifeform;now i will remind readers that 'serpent' is not, afaik, on any kind of scientific foundation. it was made using voodoo doll, just like every other block cipher. (what kind of doll, is described in the paper.)
1591994;1482947309;asciilifeform;BUT it is in several ways, apparent to the naked eye, less retarded than aes
1591995;1482947320;asciilifeform;in particular: no tables.
1591996;1482947388;asciilifeform;pipeline doesn't leak timing either, because - if implemented correctly - you never branch on a secret (key or plaintext) bit.
1591997;1482947451;Framedragger;hut that actually sounds nice..
1591998;1482947452;asciilifeform;the thing executes in constant-ticks, looks like.
1591999;1482947518;phf;in other security "Child uses sleeping mom's thumbprint to buy $250 worth of Pokémon toys (cnet.com)"
1592000;1482947527;asciilifeform;lel
1592001;1482947534;mircea_popescu;clearly the security helped.
1592002;1482947682;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-12#1198070 << old thread re aes
1592003;1482947682;a111;Logged on 2015-07-12 03:47 mircea_popescu: in any case : i don't like aes for purely political reasons. it became an apparent schelling point out of absolutely nowhere for no discernible reason. these situations always stink.
1592004;1482947709;mircea_popescu;aha.
1592005;1482947744;mircea_popescu;very reminiscent of elliptic curve "cryptography".
1592006;1482947768;asciilifeform;noshit.jpg. ~same ~2dozen people involved.
1592007;1482947791;mircea_popescu;aha. "experts" and "open source" and "opinion leaders" and whatnot.
1592008;1482947809;mircea_popescu;also about 2/3 of the nsa strength in practice, because outside of getting idiots to do idiotic things - they ain't got nuttin.
1592009;1482948047;mircea_popescu;which is why the republican strategy in sociopolitical cryptography is to isolate the nsa assets - the kochs and dreppers and schneiers + a bevy of small fry boecks etc. let them sit on hacker news and upvote each other to death, but otherwise, outside of the usg reservation, they may not opine and they may not be used as reference.
1592010;1482948309;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: more dire, even, than this, we aren't dealing with 20 years of disinfo artistry, but ~70 ! hagelin, crypto-ag, etc. and the entire poppycock of transposition ciphers surviving into computer age
1592011;1482948342;asciilifeform;especially transpositions as we know them. i'm still waiting to hear why s-boxes are fixed, rather than entirely configured by the key, ever.
1592012;1482948363;asciilifeform;i asked 'professional cryptographers of international repute' and 0 answer beyond 'here's a banana, monkey boy'
1592013;1482948415;asciilifeform;!#s maslennikov
1592014;1482948415;a111;14 results for "maslennikov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=maslennikov
1592015;1482948435;asciilifeform;^ d00d worked for kgb crypto directorate in '80s, asked same question of his superiors, got same answer.
1592016;1482948652;asciilifeform;or, the other obvious mega-question, why there is no STRETCHABLE (a la keccak) block cipher
1592017;1482948673;asciilifeform;where you can have 193-bit words if you feel like it, with 311-bit key. and next day - 301-bit words and 503-bit key, etc.
1592018;1482948680;mircea_popescu;because nobody made it, because everyone spent all their time fucking with xcode and unity.
1592019;1482948694;asciilifeform;(answer is, the folx with 'acres of crays' will butthurt that their oh-so-precious special-purpose silicon is bricked)
1592020;1482948846;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: why 'xcode and unity', and not 'the bottle'
1592021;1482948852;asciilifeform;moar folx went to the bottle.
1592022;1482948910;mircea_popescu;anyway, to create the up-node : "stop doing stupid shit" is the universal pill to de-usg the world. stop doing stupid shit with crypto, as contemplarted here, there's no nsa nor any possibility of nsa. stop "plea bargain"ing, there's no us justice system. stop using us banks, there's no us finance. stop chasing the web-revolutionary-app-nonsense, there's no "us technical lead". stop trying to marry women there's no "5th wave
1592023;1482948910;mircea_popescu;feminism" and so following.
1592024;1482948911;asciilifeform;esp. because ciphers are a blindingly obvious 'political art', where if you aren't schneier et al, you don't get printed in journals, invited to conferences, implemented by open sores monkeys, etc.
1592025;1482948917;asciilifeform;i.e. 'don't exist'
1592026;1482948938;mircea_popescu;the solutions for all these "stop" are given and trivial, now time to apply.
1592027;1482948971;asciilifeform;'rocket is trivial, just sit in a pipe and throw hot gas out one end'
1592028;1482948972;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah i'm sure i don't exist because schneier didn't invite me to the latest round of rubber chicken.
1592029;1482948993;mircea_popescu;the vice-versa is a lot more concerning, for him.
1592030;1482949117;asciilifeform;now i cannot speak for others, but i spent past few yrs exploring the known space between usgola (aes et al) and http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto
1592031;1482949124;asciilifeform;and it's more or less a vacuum.
1592032;1482949129;asciilifeform;at least in as far as public lit.
1592033;1482949166;mircea_popescu;evidently, there's serpent :)
1592034;1482949171;mircea_popescu;and cs, and keccak, and things.
1592035;1482949184;asciilifeform;serpent is, i must note, 'best horse in the glue factory.'
1592036;1482949193;asciilifeform;cs is not a block cipher.
1592037;1482949203;asciilifeform;keccak is not any kind of cipher.
1592038;1482949235;mircea_popescu;well yes, but you said "between usgola and dangerous homebrew crypto"
1592039;1482949283;asciilifeform;(keccak or another hash can be abused as a stream cipher, but it is precisely 'retarded homebrew', i will leave the reason ~why~ as an exercise)
1592040;1482949643;asciilifeform;but also i was referring to ~people~ as much as to algos.
1592041;1482949804;BingoBoingo;Lettuce not forget "Equation Group" allegedly uses RC6 to communicate with their turds
1592042;1482949809;asciilifeform;there are surely people other than mircea_popescu and asciilifeform who -- have interest in subj + have the theoretical pre-reqs + seriously ready to get their hands dirty + not thralls of usg
1592043;1482949824;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nsa uses rc6 for all 'deniable ops', because it is goodenough+short in asm
1592044;1482949833;asciilifeform;i used it myself when writing rootkits.
1592045;1482949834;BingoBoingo;Oic
1592046;1482949871;asciilifeform;'when choosing astrologer, hire the cheapest'
1592047;1482949893;asciilifeform;anyway, there are surely people, but i have not met them yet.
1592048;1482949918;asciilifeform;they, if they live, are in another kingergarten, somewhere far.
1592049;1482949988;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://read.pudn.com/downloads170/sourcecode/crypt/789721/ciphers/rc6.asm__.htm << rc6.
1592050;1482950172;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: incidentally, when i wrote to bernstein, there was 0 answer.
1592051;1482950201;asciilifeform;(and i wrote on 2 separate occasions.)
1592052;1482950250;asciilifeform;the academics, any and all of them, afaik, the bought and the unbought, the imbeciles and the brilliant, americans or chinese, so far show 0 inclination to distinguish us from the ants.
1592053;1482950250;mircea_popescu;the alternative explanation being that people are seriously disabled in the sense of coming up with motivation on their own.
1592054;1482950350;mircea_popescu;this is judicious - there's 0 inclination on our part to feed them so they do what they want to do.
1592055;1482950360;mircea_popescu;academics and republic are mutually exclusive constructions.
1592056;1482950571;asciilifeform;the non-academics, on the other hand, also disappoint. for wholly other reasons.
1592057;1482950586;mircea_popescu;eh, what was appointed for them to disappoint ?
1592058;1482950612;asciilifeform;very basic jobs, comprehensible even to a retarded lemur, remain screamingly undone.
1592059;1482950621;mircea_popescu;tell me about it.
1592060;1482950623;asciilifeform;(e.g., block cipher with ~any~ theoretical basis)
1592061;1482950636;mircea_popescu;stuff currently in the eulora hackathon could have been done ~two years ago.
1592062;1482950696;asciilifeform;btw asciilifeform is building a massive 3d gpu + fast cpu + max ram etc. machine, and, among other uses, it will build+run eulora
1592063;1482950793;BingoBoingo;how does RAM compare to Phuctor?
1592064;1482950800;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: smaller
1592065;1482950808;BingoBoingo;:(
1592066;1482950838;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: civilian box, for pleasure, 32G
1592067;1482950857;asciilifeform;fits into a ~toaster-sized iron box.
1592068;1482950862;BingoBoingo;Oh my
1592069;1482950870;asciilifeform;maybe i fill it with transformer oil.
1592070;1482950987;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the difference being you know, that "come up with block cipher with ~any~ theoretical basis" is more in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589135 whereas eulora bot things are more in the vein of "fix yourself a martini"
1592071;1482950987;a111;Logged on 2016-12-23 14:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
1592072;1482951045;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is so, but mt. everest screams out to climbers from afar
1592073;1482951059;asciilifeform;whereas martini, most folx have to fix with own hands.
1592074;1482951235;mircea_popescu;if your criteria becomes "i won't do that because too hard ; and i won't do this because too easy" then yes you've just about described present day academia.
1592075;1482951268;asciilifeform;well yes, it's sop 'publish/perish'
1592076;1482951277;asciilifeform;too hard ? no paper. too easy ? no paper.
1592077;1482951289;asciilifeform;derivative crapolade ? paperpaperpaper!111
1592078;1482951298;mircea_popescu;aha.
1592079;1482951313;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-22#728963 << seealso.
1592080;1482951313;a111;Logged on 2014-06-22 17:22 asciilifeform: that many of the titles bear a striking resemblance to each other.  "Adaptive Mesh Analysis" reads one and "An Adaptive Algorithm for Mesh Analysis" reads another. Dividing the total remaining by the average number of repetitions halves the list again. Mozart disappears before your very eyes.'
1592081;1482952335;asciilifeform;in other probably-not-news, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ug540/?raw=true << MOST gentoo mirrors have been converted into 'glue traps' where you either get 'file not found' for a CATALOGUED package (best case), or it HANGS FOR FIVE WHOLE MINUTES on 'PASV ...'
1592082;1482952422;asciilifeform;the scene from '100 years of solitude', where ants eat the baby but carefully leave the skin in roughly the correct shape, comes to mind
1592083;1482952432;asciilifeform;pick it up - there is no meat in it, only a billion ant
1592084;1482952776;mircea_popescu;aha
1592085;1482952783;mircea_popescu;ubuntu pioneered this.
1592086;1482952918;mircea_popescu;and the gcc 4.x issue is not without ramifications. consider : http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html#t18:28:17
1592087;1482952938;mircea_popescu;they're forcing the latest in static linking deliberate breakage (+ no doubt other goodies) into the "ecosystem"
1592088;1482952965;asciilifeform;noshit, i rang this alarm bell right here 2+ yrs ago
1592089;1482952981;asciilifeform;and yes, all according to plan, it goes.
1592090;1482952984;mircea_popescu;which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
1592091;1482952993;mircea_popescu;your ability to use computers may come to depend on obeying the above.
1592092;1482953013;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1592093;1482953036;asciilifeform;not quite so simple, e.g., c++11 ~dunwork under 4.x, and you're stuck with 'boost' and other abortions to make up for the missing functionality.
1592094;1482953053;asciilifeform;what the shitgnomes are really trying for is to smoke folks out of using gcc entirely
1592095;1482953057;asciilifeform;and onto llvm.
1592096;1482953078;mircea_popescu;can't say rms / gnu is hindering them any.
1592097;1482953085;asciilifeform;what's he to do
1592098;1482953094;mircea_popescu;how's that consideration within my interest ?
1592099;1482953106;mircea_popescu;"what's he to do" only counts for lords of the republic - not of usg peons.
1592100;1482953108;asciilifeform;the man's a living mushroom, i dun think this has a constructive answer
1592101;1482953120;asciilifeform;but i have yet to see mushroom get up and fight.
1592102;1482953180;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/386702/ << in other lulz
1592103;1482953266;mircea_popescu;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/386721/ << o look enumerable and errything
1592104;1482953280;mircea_popescu;do you suppose any sex ever happens in austins room ?
1592105;1482953310;asciilifeform;..who?
1592106;1482953317;mircea_popescu;2nd in my link
1592107;1482953343;asciilifeform;aah lel
1592108;1482953365;mircea_popescu;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/384721/ << looks like a great place to take a coupla sluts and some rope/chain
1592109;1482953366;asciilifeform;when i ran evil tor exit, collected a bunch of these
1592110;1482953435;Framedragger;hm. i still run one (low bandwidth), would be interesting to check things i suppose..
1592111;1482953471;asciilifeform;would be interesting to auto-crawl these, apply image transform where you search for flesh tones
1592112;1482953577;phf;hehe, that rsa one is beautiful
1592113;1482953617;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because why, shortage of cunt or what
1592114;1482953654;asciilifeform;~no good reason, or it'd exist
1592115;1482953669;asciilifeform;but some folx do like unprepared-cunt
1592116;1482953678;mircea_popescu;yeah. sickies.
1592117;1482953696;asciilifeform;asciilifeform for example can't stand the prepared kind.
1592118;1482953720;mircea_popescu;eh, who knew alf were all about surprise seks
1592119;1482953963;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/245507/#camstream << dog pound
1592120;1482954016;Framedragger;given that this is in san francisco, am i looking at a typical californian startup hackaton here?
1592121;1482954033;Framedragger;not enough butt-sniffing, so maybe that's a no.
1592122;1482954050;trinque;also at least one of them appears to be paid for her work
1592123;1482954100;Framedragger;maybe vc funded startup
1592124;1482954209;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/389881 << mircea_popesculandia !
1592125;1482954317;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/168264/#camstream << the strangest i/o relay i've ever seen. lamp is hooked, by all indications, to the 'network contact' box. as is the toggle.
1592126;1482954324;asciilifeform;who said proxy had to be automatic.
1592127;1482954430;phf;pete_dushenskiland in its natural state http://www.insecam.org/en/view/235167/
1592128;1482954517;phf;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/394778/
1592129;1482954549;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/377320/#camstream << wtf
1592130;1482954580;asciilifeform;phf: lol!
1592131;1482954671;phf;this is a proper buenos aires scene http://www.insecam.org/en/view/343710/
1592132;1482954698;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/376032/ << altair !
1592133;1482954754;phf;all these snowy landscapes remind me that i miss snow. i might need to go somewhere cold for a week or two..
1592134;1482954776;asciilifeform;the geoloc leaves something to be desired: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/354705/#camstream << unless it really is beach weather in nyc
1592135;1482954923;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/299252/ < foucault's pendulum..
1592136;1482954976;Framedragger;pretty cool images, some of these. weirdly artistically stimulating
1592137;1482955021;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/239930/#camstream << 'provably fair!11111'
1592138;1482955149;Framedragger;heh, speaking of 'provably fair' and location in question (tallinn), they've been doing e-voting (for all major elections etc) for a few years now. iirc code audits showed weak spots, multiple sek0rity expert teams, advisory bodies etc recommended to shut it down because it was unsafe, but proud estonia knows better.. :p
1592139;1482955400;Framedragger;but it's secure because it's on github and many people have looked and shit https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine
1592140;1482955429;asciilifeform;http://www.insecam.org/en/view/368537/ << parrot ?
1592141;1482955439;Framedragger;README says "the code that can be found here is the code that is used for election" so that's sorted......
1592142;1482955639;asciilifeform;lel, i think i've been here: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/257432/#camstream
1592143;1482955646;asciilifeform;and here: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/211026/
1592144;1482955808;pete_dushenski;phf: looks about right :D
1592145;1482956119;mircea_popescu;Framedragger all bureaucracies prefer evoting for the simple reason that "representative democracy" doesn't work anyway, and evoting is way th fuck cheaper.
1592146;1482956126;mircea_popescu;when hiring astrologer, hire cheapest.
1592147;1482956141;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: what kind of graphix card are you plugging in your new eulorabox ? i'm also mid-build and am unsure if meagre nvidia quadro fx 1500 with 256mb is enough steam. curious to see what you'll be using.
1592148;1482956152;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski more than enough
1592149;1482956163;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: 1070
1592150;1482956180;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: o ? awesome
1592151;1482956207;asciilifeform;it oughta suffice.
1592152;1482956222;mircea_popescu;the minigame recommended build is geforce gt 600s / radeon hd 6000s or above.
1592153;1482956231;mircea_popescu;these are cca 2006 cards.
1592154;1482956271;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: 8gb gfx card ? mega.
1592155;1482956297;asciilifeform;they're inexpensive.
1592156;1482956303;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: perfect!
1592157;1482956340;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: 0.4 BTC isn't thaaat cheap.
1592158;1482956406;mircea_popescu;https://www.amazon.com/PNY-NVIDIA-GeForce-PCI-Express-VCGGT6302XPB/dp/B00847LDKC moar like .1
1592159;1482956419;asciilifeform;i meant, it's a konsooomer board, not a rarity of whatever kind
1592160;1482956464;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: linked item is the minimal board for eulora ?
1592161;1482956474;mircea_popescu;no, it's the recommended.
1592162;1482956476;asciilifeform;aah
1592163;1482956495;mircea_popescu;eulora works fine on, eg "Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Mobile"
1592164;1482956507;mircea_popescu;and all sorts of utter, ancient laptop level crap.
1592165;1482956520;asciilifeform;lel that's a 2d card...
1592166;1482956528;mircea_popescu;ikr?
1592167;1482956789;pete_dushenski;let this therefore be remembered as the time alf pissed away 0.3btc (30mn ecu) on his eulorabox build. but hey, nothing like a little deficit to urge on the bot-crafting imagination! watch alf knock down all four hackathon prizes now.
1592168;1482956869;mircea_popescu;who knows, maybe in a few years the gfx level goes way up and it'll turn it into a good investment.
1592169;1482956918;pete_dushenski;aha obsolescence insurance
1592170;1482956950;pete_dushenski;hella expensive insurance mind you, but insurance nonetheless
1592171;1482956990;mircea_popescu;anyway, there's people playing with quadro fx boards, so should be fine.
1592172;1482957072;pete_dushenski;wunderbar. i'd had enough holiday shopping anyways.
1592173;1482957134;jurov;there's (possibly water-related) bug capping fps at ~12 even at some decent setups (such as mine radeon 7790)
1592174;1482957151;jurov;will be hilarious if alf runs into it, too
1592175;1482957172;mircea_popescu;yeah radeon is for some reason iffier fwis.
1592176;1482957198;mircea_popescu;possibly because the client gfx library isn't properly ironed out, tbh.
1592177;1482957229;asciilifeform;jurov: 12?! i played 'quake' on 486-dx2, was approx like this.
1592178;1482957267;mircea_popescu;i have mine capped because otherwise it's 150-200 which... meh.
1592179;1482957272;asciilifeform;and lel, i dun think i said that i planned to ~play~ eulora. just -- build and run !!
1592180;1482957282;jurov;as there's no fighting yet, it's fully playable at 12
1592181;1482957326;mircea_popescu;tbh i'm not a great fan on the twitch frenzy "rts" style. i expect fighting to be a lot closer to the tbs roots of, eg, mm7.
1592182;1482957331;asciilifeform;in other lulz:
1592183;1482957339;asciilifeform; *   /usr/portage/dev-lang/gnat-gcc/files/gnat-gcc-4.9.3-make-default-paths-match-slot.patch
1592184;1482957340;asciilifeform; *   ( gnat-gcc-4.9.3-make-default-paths-match-slot.patch )
1592185;1482957340;asciilifeform; * ERROR: dev-lang/gnat-gcc-4.9.3::gentoo failed (unpack phase):
1592186;1482957340;asciilifeform; *   Cannot find $EPATCH_SOURCE!
1592187;1482957382;asciilifeform;this is pure martian-level surreality: gnat-gcc-...[crapola].patch doesn't exist. but no package takes ownership of it.
1592188;1482957390;asciilifeform;nor is there any sign on www as to why it existed, when, where.
1592189;1482957395;asciilifeform;but EXPECTED!
1592190;1482957402;mircea_popescu;lol. gentoo ftw ?
1592191;1482957424;asciilifeform;it's a tupolev, approximately.
1592192;1482957454;asciilifeform;falls down randomly from the sky, but what else you gonna fly on
1592193;1482957464;mircea_popescu;o look, this is a known bug known since... 2006
1592194;1482957467;asciilifeform;if you dun want to suck boeing cock
1592195;1482957485;mircea_popescu;https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-372256-highlight-epatchsource.html
1592196;1482957514;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not related, same eggog whenever you're missing a patch
1592197;1482957518;asciilifeform;the reason is unique in each case
1592198;1482957521;mircea_popescu;ah
1592199;1482957533;asciilifeform;it's roughly analogous to an unexpectedly orphaned v-tree.
1592200;1482957876;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: $box is intended to replace one of my current heathenware boxen -- airgapped machines for winblowz CADs and similar
1592201;1482957905;asciilifeform;i.e. a toilet
1592202;1482957962;*;pete_dushenski imagines poem about a poop named eulora
1592203;1482958343;asciilifeform;https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/12/23/statement-president-signing-national-defense-authorization-act-fiscal << in other lulz, obummer refers to 'my administration will....'
1592204;1482958430;pete_dushenski;http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/editorial-cartoon-entitled-moving-day-march-4th-depicts-former-as-picture-id128514577 << "...pack up and gtfo, nobel prize and all"
1592205;1482958459;asciilifeform;'First, section 507 of the bill would authorize certain cabinet officials to "drop from the rolls" military officers without my approval.  The Constitution does not allow Congress to authorize other members of the executive branch to remove presidentially appointed officers, so I will direct my cabinet members to construe the statute as permitting them to remove the commission of a military officer only if the officer accepts their d
1592206;1482958459;asciilifeform;ecision or I approve the removal.' << not spoken quite like a d00d who plans to get off the throne at the appointed hour, now is it.
1592207;1482958777;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: recall this is the same 'red line' feller that can't tie his own shoelaces before insinuating that he's anything more than nyc corner meat-on- stick.
1592208;1482958842;pete_dushenski;after 7.9 years of failure to 'yes we can', he's squeezing the last 0.1 to tag the whitehouse walls with 'obummer wuz heer'
1592209;1482959073;pete_dushenski;speaking of tagging, looksee what i spotted at the base of a lamp pole recently : http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/TRB-everywhere.jpg
1592210;1482959202;mod6;nice
1592211;1482959214;mircea_popescu;lel Three Retters could Be anything.
1592212;1482959218;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dun follow the logix.
1592213;1482959251;mircea_popescu;seems entirely a product of "leakage intensifies, we might have to fire whole army on short notice at this rate"
1592214;1482959648;asciilifeform;https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7949-wheel_of_fortune << in other lelz, guess of what 0 mention
1592215;1482960097;ben_vulpes;+4,200 -18,102
1592216;1482960099;ben_vulpes;oh yeah
1592217;1482961020;asciilifeform;and apparently, https://archive.is/eKFGo is still a thing
1592218;1482961057;asciilifeform;'The Obama administration rolled the executive order out to great fanfare as a way to punish and deter foreign hackers who harm U.S. economic or national security.'
1592219;1482961121;asciilifeform;так победим ! (tm) (r)
1592220;1482961186;mircea_popescu;hurr.
1592221;1482961383;mircea_popescu;lol wait, the us is going to "punish" russia ? like last time when they "us&allies embargo on russia sunk the us&allies economy" ?
1592222;1482961403;mircea_popescu;what are they going to do this time, anal sex with marine mammals ? TO PUNISH RUSSIA!!!! ?
1592223;1482961447;mircea_popescu;also, that ccc.de thing doesn't load ?
1592224;1482961463;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592214 << entirely possible folx weren't aware of phuctor, it's not exactly advertised much. (then again, cue mp's "they don't have a right/privilege not to be aware"..)
1592225;1482961463;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 21:14 asciilifeform: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7949-wheel_of_fortune << in other lelz, guess of what 0 mention
1592226;1482961485;asciilifeform;suuure
1592227;1482961498;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: media.ccc.de is 195.54.164.138
1592228;1482961509;asciilifeform;devoted readers of boeck, henninger, et al
1592229;1482961510;Framedragger;asciilifeform: you really think everyone in h4cker kommunity is aware of phuctor?
1592230;1482961519;mircea_popescu;the pretense that someone in any way even vaguely involved with crypto is not at this point aware of phuctor is on the level of terrestrial life somehow "not being aware the sun exists".
1592231;1482961534;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yes.
1592232;1482961549;Framedragger;well if you define 'vaguely involved with crypto' as per tmsr-usual "has WoT presence" then yeah
1592233;1482961550;mircea_popescu;moreover, it's a fine lithmus test : doesn't know of phuctor by now, isn't actually involved.
1592234;1482961556;mircea_popescu;not at all.
1592235;1482961567;Framedragger;completing the logical circle :)
1592236;1482961568;mircea_popescu;you can give it your own definition.
1592237;1482961572;asciilifeform;boeck, schneier, the other scum, they -- know
1592238;1482961591;mircea_popescu;as long as it's not "sits in front of cctv shows on '''cryptography'''" it works.
1592239;1482961611;mircea_popescu;Framedragger think for a second, obscure "students" in obscure "technical universities" know about it
1592240;1482961631;mircea_popescu;moreover, nsa agents in charge of narrative.net THINK it is CREDIBLE that such students would so know.
1592241;1482961640;mircea_popescu;it's a foregone conclusion at this point.
1592242;1482961649;Framedragger;this isis girl in tor reads crypto papers and implements them and runs their bridges infrastructure which uses its own nifty things (hashrings for distributing bridge nodes etc), i'm quite certain she hasn't heard
1592243;1482961654;Framedragger;but maybe i should ping her actually
1592244;1482961658;trinque;lol
1592245;1482961669;trinque;her and marvin moonpie?
1592246;1482961680;mircea_popescu;lol this isis girl in tor
1592247;1482961685;Framedragger;trinque: you referring to moxie i'm guessing :D
1592248;1482961699;Framedragger;oh she's an actually good developer.
1592249;1482961707;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's some chick (?) with actual handle 'isis'
1592250;1482961712;mircea_popescu;"she" ; "an"
1592251;1482961717;Framedragger;before isis became popular
1592252;1482961732;mircea_popescu;this bear bourbaki makes excellent frappucinos.
1592253;1482961743;mircea_popescu;except for the part where it's "an" or "bear".
1592254;1482961754;Framedragger;you haven't met her in person, you don't know.
1592255;1482961757;Framedragger;https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/ << her
1592256;1482961764;Framedragger;lulz including http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-publicly-accuses-fbi-harassment-1558607 etc
1592257;1482961775;mircea_popescu;oh really.
1592258;1482961794;mircea_popescu;Framedragger this "one" "girl" on ask.fm has asked many thousands of people whether they heard of bitcoin.
1592259;1482961803;mircea_popescu;you haven't met her in person so you don't know.
1592260;1482961815;Framedragger;what i'm saying is that she actually does crypto. if you shift goalposts, whatever
1592261;1482961830;mircea_popescu;no. what i am saying is that the isis handle is not "a" or "girl".
1592262;1482961836;Framedragger;well look at what she's done if you'd like, i'm not saying you'd have to meet her in person
1592263;1482961843;Framedragger;why?
1592264;1482961863;mircea_popescu;why do i say what i say ? because it's true, what.
1592265;1482961871;Framedragger;her handle is 'isis agora lovecruft', it's a pseudonym, retarded or not, like framedragger
1592266;1482961887;ben_vulpes;"well known figure in github circles"
1592267;1482961888;mircea_popescu;unlike framedragger, however, it's not one dork your age, but a bunch of them.
1592268;1482961889;Framedragger;(obvs i'm not defending her being core part of tor, or tor.)
1592269;1482961939;Framedragger;oh you're saying 'isis' doesn't have a good referent. i agree. she has a pgp key alright.
1592270;1482961961;mircea_popescu;i'm saying isis is as good a referent as FUCKGOATS. have you met him ?
1592271;1482961970;Framedragger;hurr
1592272;1482961978;mircea_popescu;he's a good guy, publishes software.
1592273;1482961984;Framedragger;s/isis/Isis Agora Lovecruft
1592274;1482962012;mircea_popescu;same thing.
1592275;1482962017;Framedragger;(i've met and confirmed owner of this handle)
1592276;1482962024;mircea_popescu;how did you do that ?
1592277;1482962046;Framedragger;oh ffs. meat pgp signing event, for one
1592278;1482962066;mircea_popescu;so you went to a room where a bunch of other kids were and you met this girl who said "hi, i'm isis[agoralovecruft]" ?
1592279;1482962071;Framedragger;person who signed all $project-committed code = person standing in front of me, etc.
1592280;1482962071;trinque;and if you saw hanno shitbag, you'd conclude that you'd met only one person, and not an NSA tendril?
1592281;1482962101;trinque;where's danielpbarron, Framedragger needs help identifying plants by their fruit
1592282;1482962119;Framedragger;person with current root access to tor boxen in bridge infrastructure = person sitting here and teaching me stuff, etc
1592283;1482962128;mircea_popescu;that i can believe yeah.
1592284;1482962144;Framedragger;(and no it's not a 'formal proof' i know.. :/ )
1592285;1482962172;mircea_popescu;for my own edification, how many people would you think have root access to tor boxen in bridge infrastructure as of say today ?
1592286;1482962187;Framedragger;one
1592287;1482962201;Framedragger;one or two. i know both. the other guy is a guy
1592288;1482962214;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: have you ever wrestled with mp-wp stripping '.' characters from uploaded filenames when there's more than one?
1592289;1482962253;trinque;Framedragger must've used tor at some point, wants very much to believe no one saw him in there.
1592290;1482962258;trinque;sorry bub
1592291;1482962274;Framedragger;they may have even paid me!!11
1592292;1482962286;mircea_popescu;Framedragger one or two huh ? aite.
1592293;1482962298;Framedragger;(actually da truth)
1592294;1482962310;Framedragger;(probably only one tho)
1592295;1482962337;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz.asc << i think not
1592296;1482962357;phf;Framedragger: it's always the same with you, "this online personality construct is great" "they do useful research" etc. until they publish "i don't believe in pgp" or really act in any way that you didn't expect. and then you don't have any recourse, because they are online personality constructs. how well do you know this "online researcher" if you ~having spent significant amount of effort to collect and upload ssh keys~ didn't even
1592297;1482962358;phf;chat her up about it.
1592298;1482962386;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: cooooool
1592299;1482962401;mircea_popescu;phf the clearing of head is a slow and painful, mostly private process. now he has a definite reference point to come back to later at least.
1592300;1482962426;Framedragger;phf: fair. with regards to chatting up it was more to do with me not being involved with tor anymore; but even that particular still stands, so yes fair
1592301;1482962470;Framedragger;(fwiw i wouldn't defend tptacek as much, at all, but i can see how these framedraggerisms can be related under same umbrella)
1592302;1482962475;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/bitcoin-network-difficulty-continues-climb-rising-2-43-percent-for-yet-another-all-time-high/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Continues Climb Rising ~2.43 Percent For Yet Another All Time High
1592303;1482962563;Framedragger;(also apologies if my continued presence renders a constant source of radiation damage)
1592304;1482962564;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the objection is methodological not factual.
1592305;1482962577;mircea_popescu;and dun worry about it, there's no damage, but there are some chuckles here and there.
1592306;1482962582;phf;^
1592307;1482962585;Framedragger;right. and it's valid, i can't really defend it properly
1592308;1482962630;Framedragger;i did learn that if i don't flush out the funny parts i'll just grow up to be someone with no interior at all. :)
1592309;1482962687;*;trinque just doesn't wanna see Framedragger befall the result of misplaced trust
1592310;1482962704;mircea_popescu;sadly there's no universal pill for that.
1592311;1482962780;Framedragger;i'm pruning trustleaves slowly, but yeah need another degree of rigour hm
1592312;1482962839;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: would you humor me and upload a genesis.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig and let me know what your mp_wp does?
1592313;1482962843;mircea_popescu;anyway, phf 's notion of "recourse" is a lot more important than directly obvious in context ; it's a direct restatement of the "opposable" concept used in discussing deedbot payment design, and altogetgher the trestlework of sanity in operations.
1592314;1482962858;mircea_popescu;you know what you know in a solid and sustainable way when assumption is backed by recourse.
1592315;1482962875;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes well ima try whatever multidot random file a sec
1592316;1482962999;mircea_popescu;and that's the entire point of the forum as it works and the other things as they develop - to make recourse in assumption not merely possible, but a matter of course.
1592317;1482963018;mircea_popescu;it is this that distinguishes human from tv-consumer, be the tv delivered over analog cable or digital cable as "www".
1592318;1482963086;asciilifeform;https://github.com/isislovecruft/python-gnupg/issues/169 << re 'isis lovecruft' :
1592319;1482963087;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/slutmoth.jpg <<< apparently it purges dots other than last o.O it turns out whenever i try that i get pissed off, curse, then upload via sftp.
1592320;1482963096;ben_vulpes;oh
1592321;1482963098;ben_vulpes;cool
1592322;1482963100;asciilifeform;'Code page conversion renders binary files unusable during encryption #169'  'Oh god. I don't know what to do here. Unencoded or differently-encoded data needs to undergo this conversion. However, there's no way to detect valid unicode… it's essentially arbitrary binary. I'm at a loss for what to do here, and open to suggestions.'
1592323;1482963125;mircea_popescu;what the fuck is this anyway.
1592324;1482963126;ben_vulpes;looks like what i see as well
1592325;1482963128;Framedragger;that's not an altogether bad attitude now, is it. but yes she's paying for using python 3
1592326;1482963129;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes if you patch it lemme know.
1592327;1482963144;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu : fwiw i never used wp's uploadtron, never wanted to, and configure my wp in such a way that all files on disk are read-only.
1592328;1482963147;asciilifeform;and ditto all dirs.
1592329;1482963161;mircea_popescu;this is perfectly doable.
1592330;1482963164;asciilifeform;aha
1592331;1482963167;asciilifeform;quite trivially doable
1592332;1482963187;asciilifeform;Framedragger: she is not 'paying for python3' but earning that luscious paycheque from hitler.
1592333;1482963192;asciilifeform;doing exactly what she was put to do.
1592334;1482963207;mircea_popescu;that'd be a matter of perspective now wouldn't it!
1592335;1482963251;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's iron algo is merciless and applicable : '$critter is Genuine 313333337 h4xx00r' 'really, where was he when we broke 1700 rsa keys in one night' '...'
1592336;1482963276;asciilifeform;where was he, she, it, zhe, the next morning? the week after ?
1592337;1482963285;asciilifeform;derping about crapple ? about yahoo ?
1592338;1482963349;mircea_popescu;moreover, defense of the "busy elsewhere" line does utterly require them ~to have done something~. which... "oh, i existed" isn't a doing.
1592339;1482963377;asciilifeform;quite
1592340;1482963382;Framedragger;but it is a bit funny how all of these "is element part of this precious set" functions defined in tmsr yield elements only from tmsr. you'd say that's not a problem, but you know.
1592341;1482963395;asciilifeform;Framedragger: we had that finnish d00d
1592342;1482963398;asciilifeform;for a week or so.
1592343;1482963411;mircea_popescu;Framedragger actually i dunno if you read the first lordship list thing, but this is there.
1592344;1482963439;mircea_popescu;"the statement isn't made these are the best - the statement is made these are good. let any other good in their own mind prove this in their own ways."
1592345;1482963477;Framedragger;asciilifeform: airgap solution guy or someone else? just curious
1592346;1482963545;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: ah, that *is* a nice way of putting it. but then, it's a much weaker assertion than "define cryptoperson as someone who's heard of phuctor" :)
1592347;1482963562;mircea_popescu;but in point of fact it does - because nothing remarkable happened in 2016.
1592348;1482963564;asciilifeform;!#seen kmalkki
1592349;1482963564;a111;2016-10-15 <kmalkki> apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair
1592350;1482963567;mircea_popescu;so if they weren't there - they weren't.
1592351;1482963567;asciilifeform;Framedragger: ^him
1592352;1482963583;asciilifeform;the sageprobe d00d
1592353;1482963599;Framedragger;ahh right!
1592354;1482963666;asciilifeform;he found my www, which was -- and remains -- the only place on entire planet where there is public data re the probe.
1592355;1482963671;asciilifeform;(that -- plus now the l0gz here.)
1592356;1482963686;asciilifeform;then came here.
1592357;1482963688;asciilifeform;then vanished.
1592358;1482964043;mircea_popescu;naked girl on heels with banana in hand walking purposefully across room. /me laughs, she's all "what!" "are you going to eat that ?" "yes i'm going to eat it!"
1592359;1482964045;mircea_popescu;the life and times.
1592360;1482964247;mircea_popescu;"Complicating matters, the Trump transition team has not yet had extensive briefings with the White House on cybersecurity issues, including the potential use of the cyber sanctions order. The slow pace has caused consternation among officials, who fear that the administration’s accomplishments in cyber­­security could languish if the next administration fails to understand their value." << lulz. aren't they sweet with th
1592361;1482964247;mircea_popescu;eir "only reason anyone could think us irrelevant would be them being uneducated!"
1592362;1482964261;mircea_popescu;"gotta educate everyone as to our importance!!111"
1592363;1482966119;asciilifeform;'cyber sanctions'
1592364;1482966132;mircea_popescu;no longer allowed to have cyber sex!
1592365;1482966144;*;mircea_popescu shall bbl.
1592366;1482966350;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592260 << 'does crypto' lol
1592367;1482966350;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 21:50 Framedragger: what i'm saying is that she actually does crypto. if you shift goalposts, whatever
1592368;1482966392;asciilifeform;(broke a cryptosystem? designed one ? implemented one ? hell, served time in a salt mine with 'cryptographers', at least ? any ? which ?)
1592369;1482966418;Framedragger;site:https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-reports/ isis
1592370;1482966468;*;asciilifeform comes upon first mention of the handle, https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-reports/2016-December/001113.html , and reads:
1592371;1482966500;asciilifeform;'Began implementing the crypto needed for the social distributor, as well as writing documentation describing it. [0] [1] In light of the history of attacks on pairing-friendly curves combined with the recent pseudo-MOV attack which solves discrete logarithms in the embedding field of the pairing (where the embedding field is of small degree), [2] I decided to avoid pairings altogether and use an attribute-based credential scheme bas
1592372;1482966500;asciilifeform;ed on algebraic MACs. [3]  The construction of this scheme required a library for working with points on an elliptic curve, [4] which Henry de Valence and I have implemented in Rust, using a curve25519 in Edwards form.  Henry has made more detailed announcement of our curve25519-dalek library on the curves mailing list, [5] and our documentation is also available online. [6]'
1592373;1482966509;Framedragger;she wrote current version of, and afaik (maybe old info) still maintains tor bridge infrastructure. at the very least includes saltmining with 'cryptographers' and implementing their ideas (not whole cryptosystems), unless saltmine implies academia
1592374;1482966516;asciilifeform;it saddens me to befoul the l0gz with this, but it needs to be here.
1592375;1482966544;asciilifeform;ecc ? check. shitlangs ? check. noxious pediwikian style? check.
1592376;1482966584;Framedragger;come on now, rust is not necessarily a shitlang. :)
1592377;1482966616;Framedragger;and ecc, i wonder where your wrath was towards bitcoin, in that regard. (i am aware that you were never a bitcoin enthusiast tho, so there's that)
1592378;1482966633;asciilifeform;Framedragger: see l0gz.
1592379;1482966642;Framedragger;aha well ok
1592380;1482966732;*;asciilifeform goes to find out wtf is 'attribute-based credential scheme'
1592381;1482966796;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/vpatch-adding-multi-channel-support-for-trinques-ircbot-and-logbot << CH - vpatch adding multi-channel support for trinque's ircbot and logbot
1592382;1482966804;asciilifeform;'In most computer-related scientific work a digital identity is considered to be a set of characteristics describing certain properties about an individual. This set is dynamic, and depends on the context in which the individual is known. The attribute-based credential technology implements this model; see for instance [Camenisch et al., 2011,Alpár and Jacobs, 2013]. Personal characteristics, such as age, name, social security numbe
1592383;1482966804;asciilifeform;r, credit card number as well as more mundane data, like hair colour and favourite dish, are called attributes in this model. Some of these attributes are not identifying (e.g. age or hair colour) whereas others are (e.g. name or social security number). An attribute-based credential is a cryptographic container for attributes represented as integers. The two most important technologies that realise attribute based credentials are Mi
1592384;1482966805;asciilifeform;crosoft’s U-Prove [Brands, 2000,Brands, 2010] and IBM’s Idemix [Camenisch and Lysyanskaya, 2001,Security Team, IBM Research, 2012]. Currently, the European ABC4Trust project...'
1592385;1482966816;trinque;neato ben_vulpes !
1592386;1482966825;asciilifeform;'Technically, an ABC is signed by an issuer using a special digital signature to provide specific security and privacy properties....'
1592387;1482966834;mats;lol asciilifeform
1592388;1482966838;asciilifeform;(koning et al, 'The ABC of ABC')
1592389;1482966861;asciilifeform;looks like a rerun of oooooooooold movie, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-02#1084135 .
1592390;1482966861;a111;Logged on 2015-04-02 14:58 asciilifeform: 'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t
1592391;1482966867;asciilifeform;they changed the name.
1592392;1482966871;asciilifeform;because this... works. somehow.
1592393;1482966913;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-29#1550178 << the definitive thread re subj.
1592394;1482966913;a111;Logged on 2016-09-29 14:55 asciilifeform: (in actuality, in 'identity-based' crypto, folks actually encipher to a pubkey that is produced by F(Pc, X) where Pc is the chump's email addr and X is a public key of the great inca; chump (email addr holder) can decipher with his Pk_c private key, and so can the inca.
1592395;1482966919;ben_vulpes;standby 2, there's more coming on that post
1592396;1482966961;asciilifeform;now, back to Framedragger's gurl, 'This work is potentially applicable to other OTF and internet freedom projects, including Tor (if we ever allow linking against Rust code) and Signal.  After a meeting with Trevor Perrin, we've also added to our todo list (probably after this project is done, so with alternate funding) to incorporate into curve25519-dalek some additional functionality required for the Signal protocol.'
1592397;1482966971;asciilifeform;do we need more of this, or is the verdict clear.
1592398;1482967027;Framedragger;i wasn't going to show that she was doing good crypto. but this is definitely doing crypto :) (unless goalposts shifted again, etc)
1592399;1482967030;asciilifeform;and lol, they have an ' isabela at riseup.net ' ?!!!
1592400;1482967042;asciilifeform;!#s riseup
1592401;1482967043;a111;21 results for "riseup", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=riseup
1592402;1482967099;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537389 <<
1592403;1482967099;a111;Logged on 2016-09-08 17:21 asciilifeform: in other noose, remember the 'riseup' derpatron? the one with the, what, dozen phuctur pops ? well, https://archive.is/PEVaX
1592404;1482967133;trinque;yeah but asciilifeform, https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/907241
1592405;1482967147;asciilifeform;what's that
1592406;1482967153;trinque;her legz!1!11
1592407;1482967166;asciilifeform;could be pete_dushenski's legz for all i know.
1592408;1482967193;asciilifeform;needs more ABClegcredentialsystem!
1592409;1482967204;asciilifeform;moar permissioned signature!
1592410;1482967287;ben_vulpes;aight, trinque updated
1592411;1482967348;asciilifeform;Framedragger: this is 'doing crypto' like a hobo throwing up in the hallway of university physics dept. where he was let in from the cold, barfing and liquishitting before making it to the toilet, is 'doing physics'
1592412;1482967361;trinque;ben_vulpes: very nice
1592413;1482967371;*;trinque back later, after hoon in candidate truck
1592414;1482967376;ben_vulpes;hoon dems
1592415;1482967384;asciilifeform;except hobo is far above, he is unpretentious, and unmistakable
1592416;1482967386;ben_vulpes;if you don't bottom it out it's not a proper test drive
1592417;1482967412;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: that looks to be potentially very spiffy.
1592418;1482967421;Framedragger;seems distinct from http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592238 to me.
1592419;1482967421;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 21:46 mircea_popescu: as long as it's not "sits in front of cctv shows on '''cryptography'''" it works.
1592420;1482967429;Framedragger;not arguing re pretentiousness
1592421;1482967490;asciilifeform;understand, folx who associate with tor, are a riotous laugh
1592422;1482967504;asciilifeform;at one time ~i, personally~ was logging a small double digit % of all tor traffic.
1592423;1482967512;asciilifeform;not even nsa, or whoever. but asciilifeform , with own hands.
1592424;1482967521;asciilifeform;it was a snore. but srsly, these people.
1592425;1482967532;asciilifeform;the nerve. 'doing crypto'.
1592426;1482967560;asciilifeform;(you can do this experiment yourself, it is not difficult, just takes a few thou. usd / mo.)
1592427;1482967577;asciilifeform;exercise for the reader, how.
1592428;1482967637;asciilifeform;it'll also go great with mircea_popescu's 'uci' and similar.
1592429;1482967648;*;Framedragger just discovered http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema , ohey nice and useful
1592430;1482967655;asciilifeform;and every other sybiltronic system run by wotless idiots.
1592431;1482967661;asciilifeform;tor, prb, etc.
1592432;1482967668;asciilifeform;can be given same treatment.
1592433;1482967682;Framedragger;sure, no argument there.
1592434;1482968025;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: yeah, formal announcement...sometime
1592435;1482968061;ben_vulpes;lacking ACTION lines as of right now
1592436;1482968064;ben_vulpes;ty, anyways
1592437;1482968096;ben_vulpes;also mimisbrunnr irc component isn't wired up to do the talmudic recitals, so...
1592438;1482968203;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit upstack, yes, the tor derps are gonna move to permissioned nodes ('wanna run tor relay ? get 'anonymous' privkey signed by this-here-chixxxxx0r-with-niiice-legs, first!')
1592439;1482968220;asciilifeform;and so will the prb imbeciles, once we start sybiling them to death
1592440;1482968222;asciilifeform;or even prior.
1592441;1482968252;asciilifeform;it's the only stratagem the inca is capable of: the 'star topology'
1592442;1482968261;asciilifeform;l'etat c'est moi!
1592443;1482968317;asciilifeform;!#s star topology
1592444;1482968317;a111;13 results for "star topology", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=star%20topology
1592445;1482969506;ben_vulpes;odd to see gribble having such troubles
1592446;1482975198;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/ied-at-phillipines-boxing-match-kills-10-injures-more-than-20/ << Qntra - IED At Phillipines Boxing Match Kills 10 Injures More Than 20
1592447;1482979431;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592376 << how do you make the shitlang determination ?
1592448;1482979431;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 23:09 Framedragger: come on now, rust is not necessarily a shitlang. :)
1592449;1482979546;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1) there is exactly one implementation 2) by... mozilla 3) there is exactly 1 backend 4) which is... llvm 5) the users.
1592450;1482979605;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592256 <<< dude seriously, with the fucking ridiculous merit washing. plox to compare and contrast that shit with http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/
1592451;1482979605;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 21:49 Framedragger: lulz including http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-publicly-accuses-fbi-harassment-1558607 etc
1592452;1482979612;mircea_popescu;and i mean that. compare and contrast. what do you notice ?
1592453;1482979614;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not you, him.
1592454;1482979733;mircea_popescu;https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-turning-away-intelligence-briefers-since-election-win/2016/11/23/5cc643c4-b1ae-11e6-be1c-8cec35b1ad25_story.html <<< teh butthurt intensifies.
1592455;1482980752;asciilifeform;gentlemen, brace yerselves:
1592456;1482980766;asciilifeform;/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/adalib/libgnat.a(socket.o): In function `__gnat_gethostbyaddr':
1592457;1482980766;asciilifeform;socket.c:(.text.__gnat_gethostbyaddr+0x1a): warning: Using 'gethostbyaddr_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
1592458;1482980766;asciilifeform;/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/adalib/libgnat.a(socket.o): In function `__gnat_gethostbyname':
1592459;1482980766;asciilifeform;socket.c:(.text.__gnat_gethostbyname+0xf): warning: Using 'gethostbyname_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
1592460;1482980772;asciilifeform;/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/adalib/libgnat.a(socket.o): In function `__gnat_getservbyname':
1592461;1482980774;asciilifeform;socket.c:(.text.__gnat_getservbyname+0xc): warning: Using 'getservbyname_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
1592462;1482980777;asciilifeform;/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/adalib/libgnat.a(socket.o): In function `__gnat_getservbyport':
1592463;1482980780;asciilifeform;socket.c:(.text.__gnat_getservbyport+0xc): warning: Using 'getservbyport_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
1592464;1482980783;asciilifeform;^ for the record. glibc retardation -- spreads.
1592465;1482980815;asciilifeform;this, incidentally, was a proggy that doesn't even use tcp.
1592466;1482980858;asciilifeform;looks like i'm stuck forking GNAT.Sockets.
1592467;1482980884;*;asciilifeform is at a loss for words.
1592468;1482980975;phf;"trump met with u.s. intelligence secret briefing group and realized that u.s. has no secrets"
1592469;1482981115;phf;"a whistle blower leaked a video of the event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHSyySIECGE&t=2m3s"
1592470;1482981139;asciilifeform;lel
1592471;1482983401;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592392 << it's particularly funny how this recycling works, where the same invention is supposed to have been separately invented and we're supposed to credit each "individual" derp with a full copy.
1592472;1482983401;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 23:14 asciilifeform: because this... works. somehow.
1592473;1482983674;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592398 << by this measure any fat man who ever farted did cooking, just not good cooking ? or i'm sorry, singing ? playing the tuba ?
1592474;1482983674;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 23:17 Framedragger: i wasn't going to show that she was doing good crypto. but this is definitely doing crypto :) (unless goalposts shifted again, etc)
1592475;1482983758;asciilifeform;tuba. prrrpwwwppffft!
1592476;1482983916;mircea_popescu;in vaguely related news i spent an hour going through all romanian military marches. the schmucks have nfi what they're doing. there is exactly one that's acceptable, everything else is crap.
1592477;1482983929;mircea_popescu;how fucking hard is it, the ENTIRE point of a military march is the neener factor.
1592478;1482984172;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhGtad_BUlc << this is the good one. "rapprochement march". imagine you being on the other side and trying to prevent for instance a pincer closing but failing, and then the fucking idiots play this as they're linking up.
1592479;1482984249;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: how do I upload a file to an in-republic bot?
1592480;1482984262;mircea_popescu;curl it to wotpaste ?
1592481;1482984286;gabriel_laddel_p;mircea_popescu: it is a video
1592482;1482984290;gabriel_laddel_p;14 min long
1592483;1482984309;mircea_popescu;i dunno we have support for nontext atm.
1592484;1482984353;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p has 0 hosting space as well as no postbox..?
1592485;1482984370;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: I now have a postbox!
1592486;1482984376;mircea_popescu;ha!
1592487;1482984376;asciilifeform;ooh
1592488;1482984406;asciilifeform;congrats gabriel_laddel_p !
1592489;1482984517;mircea_popescu;"Using 'getservbyport_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking"  << what THE FUCK does this even mean.
1592490;1482984527;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bznn0f9Mk3KASFhrSDRkU1NuNHc
1592491;1482984538;mircea_popescu;the fucking reason it's static is so that it DOESNT require that.
1592492;1482984550;gabriel_laddel_p;it is encrypted to you and is a .ogv file. Please let me know you can decrypt and play it.
1592493;1482984553;mircea_popescu;why else even have a static
1592494;1482984561;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's the crapola from ye olde glibc
1592495;1482984568;mircea_popescu;gabriel_laddel_p if you can encrypt you can armor and if you can armor you can wotpaste.
1592496;1482984572;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which gave us rotor etc.
1592497;1482984799;gabriel_laddel_p;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592059 < hardest I've laughed in a couple days
1592498;1482984799;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 18:43 mircea_popescu: tell me about it.
1592499;1482984822;mircea_popescu;:p
1592500;1482984862;gabriel_laddel_p;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591735 < the original proposition was, and is ARSTTEP. Hos being able to use it is just a result of having an xterm and browser around
1592501;1482984862;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 05:14 mircea_popescu: the original proposition was "hooker-ready laptop". i can see the "value add".
1592502;1482984882;mircea_popescu;what's arsttep again ?
1592503;1482984918;gabriel_laddel_p;http://web.archive.org/web/20160603040619/http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html
1592504;1482984934;gabriel_laddel_p;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591714 < re this
1592505;1482984934;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 05:08 mircea_popescu: oh speaking of which, gabriel_laddel_p why not packaging fuckgoats with the masamunes ?
1592506;1482984969;mircea_popescu;eh education problem huh.
1592507;1482984977;gabriel_laddel_p;Indeed. And why not bundle w/eurola? You've wanted an 'emacs' interface for a while. CLIM is the logical conclusion of the emacs modality married to
1592508;1482985022;mircea_popescu;the fuckgoats part seems easier. so where's this address of yours and are what deal are we looking at here ? machines for fuckgoats ?
1592509;1482985404;mircea_popescu;tsk.
1592510;1482985406;asciilifeform;maybe we mail him a modem 1st.
1592511;1482985416;mircea_popescu;a few internet icecubes
1592512;1482985424;asciilifeform;bottle'o'bandwidth
1592513;1482985482;mircea_popescu;watch that he typed a three line thing before dcing each time too
1592514;1482985561;mircea_popescu;in other news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/f0b60cb4ffb53329fa0fd58134ddb50a/tumblr_ocwd2eNJZJ1vxxwdto1_1280.jpg
1592515;1482986141;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: believe or not, i solved the linking idiocy.
1592516;1482986145;asciilifeform;once and, i think, for all.
1592517;1482986149;mircea_popescu;a ?
1592518;1482986210;asciilifeform;1s
1592519;1482986444;asciilifeform;actually nm,.
1592520;1482986446;asciilifeform;false alarm.
1592521;1482986454;asciilifeform;it's still screamingly retarded.
1592522;1482986628;asciilifeform;it'll need some very fine surgery.
1592523;1482986647;asciilifeform;fortunately gnat linker is extremely programmable.
1592524;1482986673;asciilifeform;(you can actually pick'n'choose components of standard libs)
1592525;1482987407;asciilifeform;in other 'news', steve dutch has a very peculiarly broken www server.
1592526;1482987409;asciilifeform;e.g., https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/flipaxis.htm
1592527;1482987469;asciilifeform;as of some time between june 5 and sept. 6 of '15, per http://web.archive.org/web/20151015000000*/https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/flipaxis.htm
1592528;1482987479;asciilifeform;and the blob isn't any format i know of.
1592529;1482987485;asciilifeform;(no header of any kind.)
1592530;1482987510;asciilifeform;Entropy = 7.965176 bits per byte.
1592531;1482987510;asciilifeform;Optimum compression would reduce the size
1592532;1482987510;asciilifeform;of this 22003 byte file by 0 percent.
1592533;1482987651;asciilifeform;it ain't x86 either
1592534;1482987663;asciilifeform;nor anything like a plausible stack or heap turd.
1592535;1482987736;asciilifeform;0 anything resembling human strings in there, either.
1592536;1482987752;asciilifeform;it is ~= FUCKGOATS output.
1592537;1482987868;asciilifeform;http://ec2-52-37-126-112.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/falstaff pretty useless also.
1592538;1483002445;deedbot;http://cascadianhacker.com/arrival << CH - Arrival
1592539;1483013509;trinque;^ I'm gonna spoil the shit out of this one. It ends with the chick learning the magic words SHE KNEW ALL ALONG because aliens fly their heptafold asses across the cosmos to make her the god-snowflake she is in her true self. This SO THAT humans can help teh alienz in 3000 years.
1592540;1483013572;trinque;"towards purpose" being disembowled, it tries to put the guts back in with paradoxical time travel stories
1592541;1483016194;mircea_popescu;but it was all worth it!
1592542;1483016924;mircea_popescu;this is pretty fucking lulzy : https://archive.is/V85X6 tl;dr obama thinks he'd have won if he had run again.
1592543;1483017007;shinohai;Obama 2020!
1592544;1483017028;mircea_popescu;there's some talk of impeaching him next year just so he doesn't get to run for any office ever again
1592545;1483017039;mircea_popescu;(such as the supreme court if the dems get the presidency again)
1592546;1483017176;mircea_popescu;trinque btw, the cinematic productions of teh empire in the past 3-5 years are showing very specific distress. ~everything is really a redo of "black mirror", it's shockingly this very specifig thing : politico-ideological refuge.
1592547;1483017222;mircea_popescu;obviously cinema has a strong escapism vein, but historically the escapism is directed towards poverty and individual restrictions. you need a septicemic soviet union for it to be "a source of hope for the aparatchicks"
1592548;1483017316;mircea_popescu;meanwhile back at identity-verifying camp, http://68.media.tumblr.com/65057cca2a7992efab8f29adddf7bfff/tumblr_inline_ocj7biiuIP1rugnuj_1280.jpg
1592549;1483017720;mircea_popescu;fuck, would you look at this guy!
1592550;1483017722;mircea_popescu;"Arrival is an excruciating ode to the holy mother's spring sacrifice. Instead of dazzling with feats of shoostment, punching, swordplay, or skillful maneuvering of ICEmobiles, Arrival wallops one incessantly with the great sacrifice of parenthood and just how far woman will go for her babies, especially if that baby is everyone and the sacrifice just the guy she hooked up with that one time when everyone got real stressed ou
1592551;1483017722;mircea_popescu;t about aliens."
1592552;1483017812;mircea_popescu;dude has it, clearly.  ben_vulpes will produce one gem per article, he's got a geological process going on in his skull and the result is these geodes of an article whereby among the silt there's gems.
1592553;1483017984;mircea_popescu;"JUST THE <fill in> SHE <fill in> THAT ONE TIME WHEN EVERYONE <fill in>" is 100% of the moral/ethical mental process of every usian under 30. that's the whole thing. just the thought they have one time when everyone's looking down at them. thassit.
1592554;1483018303;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the female mind, having betrayed the faith she owes the male, is taking refuge in teary-eyed imaginations of "sacrifices" ; in a defensive paleocortex process veheheheery well known by the survivors of the communist countries. "oh, those were the times, I HAD TO SACRIFICE" says every despicable old quisling whore. mno bitch, you didn't have to sacrifice anything, you're just a blob of fat. blobs of fat don't "sacrif
1592555;1483018303;mircea_popescu;ice", they just get bought and sold.
1592556;1483022515;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592544 << impeach ex official?!
1592557;1483022515;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 13:10 mircea_popescu: there's some talk of impeaching him next year just so he doesn't get to run for any office ever again
1592558;1483022539;mircea_popescu;sure.
1592559;1483022607;asciilifeform;iirc you gotta actually hold office for impeachment in usa. but -- ianal.
1592560;1483022669;mircea_popescu;what, does it say in the constitution they can't ?
1592561;1483022670;mircea_popescu;trump has a healthy majority and plenty of people hate the dems. even themselves, these days.
1592562;1483022671;mircea_popescu;"first black president" was "a great victory for the progressives", then "only nigger ever lost in the white house was impeached!" will be "a great victory for the patriots", this is how politics works - everyone gets the maximal great victories possible.
1592563;1483022695;mircea_popescu;congress shall make no law limiting the laws congress can make later on.
1592564;1483022734;mircea_popescu;aka "a parliament is that body of men that while in session guarantees noone's property, dignity or life are secure."
1592565;1483022881;asciilifeform;aaah if we're talking about fyootoor laws, then 'don't impeach! impale!'
1592566;1483022895;mircea_popescu;anyway, whether they manage to eat this particular potato or not, the fact remains : obama as a political construct is more valuable impeached than not impeached. that's pretty much the whole story, not like there's an actual human behind the construct.
1592567;1483022929;mircea_popescu;ie, "there's a potato there".
1592568;1483022947;asciilifeform;!~google don't impeach impale
1592569;1483022948;jhvh1;asciilifeform: Don't Impeach ; Impale | Alternet: <http://www.alternet.org/story/33598/don't_impeach%253B_impale>; Will Durst: Don't Impeach ; Impale | Uppity Wisconsin: <http://www.uppitywis.org/will_durst_dont_impeach_impale>; Don't Impeach ; Impale - Politics and religion - Quarter To Three ...: <https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/dont-impeach-impale/25069%3Fpage%3D2>
1592570;1483022958;mircea_popescu;heh
1592571;1483023004;mircea_popescu;will durst raided a thesaurus, nobody complained. apparently back in 2006 this was ok.
1592572;1483023271;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/the-problems-of-the-female-notion-of-sacrifice/ << Trilema - The problems of [the female notion of] sacrifice
1592573;1483024123;mircea_popescu;anyone wanna read a mp-rewrite of coetzee's disgrace ?
1592574;1483024137;mircea_popescu;this latest exchange kinda inspired me to do it.
1592575;1483024243;asciilifeform;in re yesterday's lel, http://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-cybersecurity-link-used-by-obama.html
1592576;1483024526;mircea_popescu;heh. so bahamas shared his livejournal link with her flame, except putin didn't give a shit so now she's messaging all her friends on instagram about it ?
1592577;1483024630;asciilifeform;approx
1592578;1483025170;shinohai;http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rNiuNkb5wPg/Uh4W8W0kReI/AAAAAAAAAkc/xM2E9eSkXYs/s1600/hotline-pentagon2013.jpg   <<< So if I click here, we unfriend Russia ?
1592579;1483025225;asciilifeform;vintage lulz ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542468 ) continued! >> http://blog.opendime.com/post/155026798632/announcing-opendime-v2-now-genuine-verified << 'we’ve added a special security chip, the sole purpose of which is to defeat any attempt at building counterfeit or cloned Opendime'
1592580;1483025225;a111;Logged on 2016-09-15 18:39 asciilifeform: 'Yes. It's like a piggy-bank. You must destroy it to spend the funds. At first that seems expensive and wasteful, but it's a key part of our security model: you can trust a sealed Opendime, and it's obvious when it's been opened.' etc. is a lie.
1592581;1483025231;asciilifeform;gotta luvvv these folx
1592582;1483025419;asciilifeform;'Secure authentication and product validation device datasheet summary. The complete document is available under NDA. For more information, please contact your local Atmel sales office.' << lel
1592583;1483025720;mircea_popescu;atmel ?!
1592584;1483025726;mircea_popescu;will this be the token of barbie prostitution ?
1592585;1483025735;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the various derps (i've lost count) all use the same seek00000ritychip
1592586;1483025742;asciilifeform;since at least early 2014
1592587;1483025781;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1592588;1483025950;asciilifeform;'This is physical Bitcoin as it was meant to be: just hand it to someone and they've got it. Pass it on multiple times! As simple as a handshake. No miner fees, no confirmation delays.'
1592589;1483025964;asciilifeform;this lolcow species will never die, will it.
1592590;1483026061;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/a-novel-once-called-disgrace/ << Trilema - A novel once called Disgrace
1592591;1483026062;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> (such as the supreme court if the dems get the presidency again) << Well that's why he was cool with Hillary in 2016 but not 2008 or 2012, next job 4lyfe
1592592;1483026092;mircea_popescu;aha
1592593;1483026237;asciilifeform;http://www.stellaw.info/blog/2015/9/26/case-wallet-teardown << while we're on subj of 'bitcoin hardware'
1592594;1483026252;asciilifeform;what a horror
1592595;1483026428;BingoBoingo;Hussein as a political construct *needed* enshrined on court, preferably in Scalia's seat. Twas why there was no big push to vacancy fill.
1592596;1483026811;mircea_popescu;kinda wherefore impeachment. only way to castrate the construct.
1592597;1483026859;mircea_popescu;by winter of 2017 - or even the summer if another katrina hits - the regime will need to make moves and the populace will be well hungry and angry enough.
1592598;1483026865;mircea_popescu;but hey, maybe he escapes to kenya.
1592599;1483030445;asciilifeform;in other lulz, gnat's standard library apparently includes a compact implementation of... SPITBOL.
1592600;1483030481;asciilifeform;https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/g-spipat__adb.htm << subj
1592601;1483030653;asciilifeform;http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/some-programs-are-poorly-designed-on-pur/232300070 << see also
1592602;1483030729;asciilifeform;'With just one programming technique, the SPITBOL compiler violated several principles of good programming...'
1592603;1483030742;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-for-a-man-of-his-age/ << Trilema - Disgrace - For a man of his age
1592604;1483031095;mats;neato
1592605;1483033129;asciilifeform;'As the deadline for handing in India’s decommissioned 500 and 1,000 rupee notes arrives, the government has signed a law jailing those who continue holding them. ... The Indian Cabinet has cleared a so-called ordinance, transferring liability to consumers and away from banks and authorities after a final cut-off point of March 31. Consumers could thereafter land themselves in jail for four years. Regular consumers only have until
1592606;1483033129;asciilifeform;tomorrow however to deposit the now officially “banned” notes.'
1592607;1483034695;jurov;everyone check your drawers to be sure
1592608;1483034763;phf;i think they got replaced with "new series" of 500 and 2000. also there's certainly no confusion. the whole transition was a clusterfuck. they introduced new series like two months ago
1592609;1483034869;phf;since then, cash shortages, protests, the usual stuff. the obvious solution "make it illegal", what a bunch of babus
1592610;1483034945;asciilifeform;planned devaluations are one of the inevitable death agonies of a collapsing monkeystan, quite like, e.g., rolling mains blackouts.
1592611;1483035299;mircea_popescu;sooo this morning's definitive breakfast is homemade bread, sliced, atop which spread avocado, on which thinly sliced roast beef, on which brie slices, on which kimchi.
1592612;1483035353;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know california has had rolling blackouts since the 80s.
1592613;1483035431;asciilifeform;aha, as described by uncle al and others.
1592614;1483035443;asciilifeform;north kr - even longer!111
1592615;1483035925;mircea_popescu;anyway, india looks ripe for a blowout and habitability within a decade, so.
1592616;1483035937;mircea_popescu;if it weren't so fucking hot.
1592617;1483035976;asciilifeform;you would have to terraform it.
1592618;1483035978;asciilifeform;like africa.
1592619;1483036221;jurov;large swathes of india are foothills of himalayas, one can surely find some place with acceptable climate
1592620;1483036249;asciilifeform;jurov: himalayas have the other problem -- the one described in mircea_popescu's article about the chile scam
1592621;1483036276;jurov;i once met a indian lady in germany, i asked her how she's fine with german climate, and she explained me this
1592622;1483036277;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2014/so-the-dollar-vigilante-scam-ring-is-going-to-jail << subj
1592623;1483036288;mircea_popescu;jurov look into it, there's nothing sane. somehoiw the whole fucking continent manages to be 35 degrees
1592624;1483036296;mircea_popescu;then we wonder why the most famous indians are the gypsies.
1592625;1483036397;asciilifeform;( though i do have a few nitpicks re: mircea_popescu's 'Do you have any idea what it costs to drill for water in that sort of clearly basaltic substrate ? Look it up. And then, IF, and that's a huge if, you're lucky enough to find water, you'll be stuck pumping it five thousand feet. Which means each cubic meter of water will cost you, even should you have the perfect engine, a megajoule and a half' -- there'd be no reason to get the
1592626;1483036397;asciilifeform; water from anywhere but the ~top~ of the peak. but you would have to somehow generate mains current, etc.)
1592627;1483036443;mircea_popescu;you mean what, collect snow ?
1592628;1483036454;asciilifeform;snow, rain, aha
1592629;1483036465;asciilifeform;melt -- with reactor, how else.
1592630;1483036465;mircea_popescu;you have no idea how vulnerable this makes you.
1592631;1483036469;mircea_popescu;what if a volcano erupts ?
1592632;1483036477;asciilifeform;what if piano falls on head.
1592633;1483036479;asciilifeform;and then anvil.
1592634;1483036484;asciilifeform;can happen in manhattan!
1592635;1483036496;mircea_popescu;not NEXT to you. what a volcano erupts anywhere.
1592636;1483036500;asciilifeform;(then -- asteroid, for good measure)
1592637;1483036516;mircea_popescu;few years ago a quarter of all flights had to be grounded because some volcano spit out ash in the upper atmosphere.
1592638;1483036526;mircea_popescu;you're ready to drink all the sulphur the earth has in store for you ?
1592639;1483036528;asciilifeform;were grounded for... 3 days ?
1592640;1483036532;asciilifeform;2?
1592641;1483036546;mircea_popescu;yes, because afterwards the ash settled on naive settler's water sources.
1592642;1483036548;asciilifeform;and noshit.jpg, you distill the water, with selfsame reactor.
1592643;1483036551;asciilifeform;twice.
1592644;1483036576;mircea_popescu;by now it's cheaper to lure vagrants in and suck their blood./
1592645;1483036585;asciilifeform;naturally you also do this.
1592646;1483036601;mircea_popescu;write the novel, i'll read
1592647;1483036603;mircea_popescu;just dun wanna live there.
1592648;1483036616;asciilifeform;hey it's a better deal than 'live on the poles' or 'under ocean' or 'on moon'
1592649;1483036630;mircea_popescu;so far i live - with women.
1592650;1483036638;mircea_popescu;who wants, can have the poles.
1592651;1483036648;asciilifeform;has ~usable atmosphere. which beats the shit out of the usual 'colonization' fantasies.
1592652;1483036663;mircea_popescu;there is that.
1592653;1483036692;asciilifeform;inhospitability to aircraft can also be a win.
1592654;1483036716;mircea_popescu;here'\s the thing : if inhospitability to aircraft is a win, you have serious problems in other places that you should attend to.
1592655;1483036726;asciilifeform;make sure to tell this to the pashtuns
1592656;1483036734;mircea_popescu;much like if a boy's mating strategy consists of seeking out the places where no other boys go and waiting for girls to straggle in.
1592657;1483036778;mircea_popescu;(which, truly, is what most engineers are doing with their lives, the engineering being just a pretext)
1592658;1483036836;asciilifeform;not everybody wants to be involved with mega-empires, on the giving or on the receiving end. in that light, the pashtun mountains are every bit a 'high-tech' deterrent as a SAM battery.
1592659;1483036910;asciilifeform;(works best, afaik, as 'part of a balanced diet' with rockets,etc, naturally.)
1592660;1483037014;mircea_popescu;you'll find a mini-empire, like that woman who left her infant daughter to sun on the porch and came back to discover the child covered in fireants.
1592661;1483037051;asciilifeform;'nobody promised 'no kings''
1592662;1483037063;asciilifeform;only -- no usg.
1592663;1483037088;mircea_popescu;the usg has no aesthetic content
1592664;1483037098;mircea_popescu;which is to say it is the shape of the hole in which it fell, naught else.
1592665;1483037106;mircea_popescu;the soviets were entirely not different.
1592666;1483037129;asciilifeform;in the pashtun sense contemplated, they were exactly the same thing, 'they think they own the world because they can make jets'
1592667;1483037195;asciilifeform;'and now they come to tell us in which hole to fuck the goat, and to consider transition to sheep, and to send opium west, not east, ' etc.
1592668;1483037360;mircea_popescu;in all sense they're the same thing. once one's too poor for art, his house will be exactly like his neighbour's
1592669;1483037370;mircea_popescu;and his woman will literally be his neighbour's.
1592670;1483037399;asciilifeform;'sharing is caring' (tm) (r) (usg)
1592671;1483037464;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-yet-neither-he-nor-she/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Yet neither he nor she
1592672;1483038003;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592457 <<< such perversion!
1592673;1483038003;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 03:06 asciilifeform: socket.c:(.text.__gnat_gethostbyaddr+0x1a): warning: Using 'gethostbyaddr_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
1592674;1483038026;asciilifeform;davout: it was exactly the same snore as in early trb
1592675;1483038141;asciilifeform;the 'riddle' unlocks very easily, scroll to the end of https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/g-socthi__ads.htm .
1592676;1483038154;davout;god, i meant to quote mircea_popescu's breakfast
1592677;1483038159;asciilifeform;(whole standard lib is on www, and surprisingly readable)
1592678;1483038164;asciilifeform;davout: lel
1592679;1483038177;mircea_popescu;speak not to me of perversions, frenchie!
1592680;1483038244;davout;speaking of perversions i tried kraken's "margin trading" feature
1592681;1483038293;davout;it is broken in such retarded ways i'm wondering whether i'd have been better off using bitstamp's string'd cans
1592682;1483038349;davout;apparently these fucktards expect one to borrow assets to fucking close a position
1592683;1483038377;davout;say i borrow 10 btc to short on margin, i sell those for 10kEUR @ 1000 EUR/BTC
1592684;1483038443;davout;somehow, i now need to "borrow" 10kEUR to liquidate the position, because somehow, the result of the sale doesn't exist!
1592685;1483038481;davout;it doesn't occur to their two-cans-and-a-string fork that it can use the same fucking 10kEUR to buy back the asset I borrowed
1592686;1483038489;asciilifeform;noshit it 'doesn't exist', how can trading imaginary coinz make actual profit.
1592687;1483038554;davout;when these monkeys get their shit rubbed in their face their answer is, I shit you not, "this isn't a bug, but we'll update our documentation to match the actual behaviour"
1592688;1483038604;asciilifeform;why was davout using a mtgox again
1592689;1483038622;davout;they fail to make the intellectual link between "software doesn't actually behave according to its documented behaviour" with "bug"
1592690;1483038644;asciilifeform;'i put my hand in bear trap. it snapped shut and hurt quite a bit. i reported bug. the trapper said 'feature'.'
1592691;1483038657;davout;asciilifeform: apparently "not hacked in a few years" is the best you can get these days
1592692;1483038668;asciilifeform;how about ye olde 'hodl'
1592693;1483038672;asciilifeform;also nothacked.jpg
1592694;1483038676;trinque;still gotta buy somewhere
1592695;1483038722;asciilifeform;buy -- from humans
1592696;1483038744;asciilifeform;(buying plane ticket, and visiting mircea_popescu , supposing that he is still buying usd for something, is probably in the end cheaper than 'goxing')
1592697;1483038792;mircea_popescu;davout you had it right the first time : what you bought doesn't exist.
1592698;1483038809;davout;i'll probably end up sentencing jesse powell to death, depending on the way they handle this
1592699;1483038843;mircea_popescu;kraken ? they were hacked, plenty, what are you talking about.
1592700;1483038938;davout;really?
1592701;1483038981;davout;i vaguely remember something, but i think i'd remember had it been something as glorious as goxfinex
1592702;1483039155;davout;i should probably spend some time actually documenting it instead of ranting here
1592703;1483039198;mircea_popescu;wasn't ever glorious.
1592704;1483039216;mircea_popescu;but as you nobody gave much a shit, kraken always was the hollow pretense of nobody in particular.
1592705;1483039807;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1592706;1483039826;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 958.99, vol: 9179.51998182 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 935.0, vol: 5241.41338 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 957.54, vol: 19677.04837435 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 960.0, vol: 3251.57836791 | Volume-weighted last average: 954.94740532
1592707;1483040388;asciilifeform;!!up fromloper
1592708;1483040388;deedbot;fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
1592709;1483040450;asciilifeform;eh, why to even bother putting the link in.
1592710;1483040455;davout;short up was short
1592711;1483040467;davout;obviously that's what she said.
1592712;1483040468;asciilifeform;davout: that one was almost record holder! ~ten whole seconds
1592713;1483040492;davout;maybe next time they accidentally rip on the keyboard or something
1592714;1483040508;davout;pr0gress!11
1592715;1483040565;asciilifeform;now we know how spanish priests quit convertin' and joined in the target practice sport with the normal conquistadores.
1592716;1483041245;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/hussein-bahamas-continues-picking-fights-as-term-dwindles/ << Qntra - Hussein Bahamas Continues Picking Fights As Term Dwindles
1592717;1483041248;shinohai;lo BingoBoingo ...latest Qntra. Bahamas gonna make the Bundy cows a Nashnul monument.
1592718;1483041605;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-what-he-throws-together/ << Trilema - Disgrace - What he throws together
1592719;1483041847;asciilifeform;'Mr Obama also announced the US will declassify technical information related to Russian cyber activity to "help network defenders in the United States and abroad identify, detect, and disrupt Russia's global campaign of malicious cyber activities".'
1592720;1483041848;asciilifeform;lulzy.
1592721;1483042122;mats;the butthurt continues
1592722;1483042276;mircea_popescu;this should be great.
1592723;1483042332;mircea_popescu;he might be working off some notebook bush left stuffed between the actual books in the wh library, because i seem to recall a declassification of technical details pertaining to iraq's wmds also being in the works for lo these many ten+ years.
1592724;1483042632;asciilifeform;'A Finnish court has sentenced the former head of Helsinki's anti-drugs police to 10 years in prison for drug-smuggling and other offences. ... It ranks as the second least-corrupt country, after Denmark, in the global index compiled by Transparency International.' << in other reich lulz.
1592725;1483042833;mircea_popescu;i thought that was the obedience index.
1592726;1483044180;mod6;I have a bit of a question here..
1592727;1483044284;mod6;so going back to our discussion regarding: a->b->c->d  all signed by x, if 'c' is removed then the flow should be a->b  and now 'd' has become orphaned.  the correct strictness, 'v' (wot-variant) drops 'c' out all together.
1592728;1483044358;mod6;the reason, I'm finding, that my previous patch still listed a->b->d in the flow, is because 'd' got picked up as a root.  and the reason it does is because at this point, it has no antecedents.
1592729;1483044416;mod6;one way, I've found, to solve this is to ensure that any root in my list of roots, must be a "true root", in such that if the vpatch's every 'a'='false', then it is a "true root".
1592730;1483044458;mod6;is this proper?
1592731;1483045048;phf;yes
1592732;1483045174;phf;also it's called "genesis"
1592733;1483045390;mod6;phf: ok, see, there is a hack i could have put in, instead.  where i just ensure that my root is named like /genesis/.  But what if someguy calls his root, 1000 years from now, xyz.vpatch.
1592734;1483045409;mod6;Then he's got a problem.  So i felt like this type of checking, is more strict.  And if it is proper, I will proceed.
1592735;1483045420;asciilifeform;mod6: 'genesis' means 'all antecedents are 'false'n rather than 'no valid antecedents'
1592736;1483045436;phf;^
1592737;1483045452;ben_vulpes;mod6: moreover the general case is looking to be "project-genesis.vpatch"
1592738;1483045454;mod6;asciilifeform: sweet! then i think im in good shape.
1592739;1483045481;phf;i don't mean that the patch is called "genesis", i mean that the concept is called genesis, so there's no need for new nomenclature like "true root"
1592740;1483045484;mod6;ben_vulpes: so you think, what i'm calling the 'hack' to be just as good or more appropriate here?  i'd rather check, personally.
1592741;1483045497;mod6;http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace5.txt  << here's a sample of what i'm saying
1592742;1483045504;ben_vulpes;nono, it's not a hack to do here
1592743;1483045539;phf;(defun genesisp (vpatch)
1592744;1483045539;phf;  (every (lambda (hunk) (null (from-hash hunk))) (hunks vpatch)))
1592745;1483045540;phf; 
1592746;1483045576;mod6;im not sure that i get this ^ but... i think we're all saying the same thing.
1592747;1483045680;asciilifeform;there is NO reason to 'enmagic' the string 'genesis'
1592748;1483045683;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mod6: 'genesis' means 'all antecedents are 'false'n rather than 'no valid antecedents' << just to re-iterate, does 'genesis' also apply to 'root' ?
1592749;1483045683;asciilifeform;ever.
1592750;1483045707;asciilifeform;i can name a genesis xyz.vpatch.
1592751;1483045714;mod6;right ^
1592752;1483045719;mod6;this is what i wanted to avoid.
1592753;1483045735;mod6;so i'll check, and accumulate roots that have only hashes that = 'false'.
1592754;1483045747;phf;mod6: there's no such thing as "root". there's only genesis. you find all patches that satisfy the genesis requirement ("all antecedents are false") and you build your graph down from there
1592755;1483045766;mod6;this is not true according to v99 from alf ^
1592756;1483045806;mod6;"# It is entirely possible to have more than one root! ... exactly how, is left as an exercise for readers."
1592757;1483045819;phf;well, then alf is being sloppy with his terminology
1592758;1483045939;phf;root is a compsci term for a the topmost element of a tree. genesis is a vtronic term for the origin. on imlementation level they are identical, and generally describe the same concept, but in general "root" being "genesis" is an implementation detail
1592759;1483046074;mod6;agree. just trying to be 100% positive I'm doing the right thing, before I do it.  And it is discussion worthy imho.
1592760;1483046108;ben_vulpes;in entirely unrelated microsoftery, http://archive.is/UrLGx
1592761;1483046136;phf;mod6: we're on the same page
1592762;1483046207;mod6;werd. thx for your input.
1592763;1483047227;mircea_popescu;the point where genesis has for an antecedent "false" and nothing else is imo controlling.
1592764;1483047250;mircea_popescu;no patch can be elevated to the status of genesis ; if it is a genesis of something it knows this, and the way it knows this is through the antecedent being false
1592765;1483047275;mircea_popescu;which makes alf's objection to the mega discussion re antecedent enforcing etc weaker than he cares for it to be : turns out we ALREADY have the state machine.
1592766;1483047473;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592756 << that is historical nonsense that got hammered out in a large discussion when it was actually brought to the forum.
1592767;1483047473;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 21:10 mod6: "# It is entirely possible to have more than one root! ... exactly how, is left as an exercise for readers."
1592768;1483047509;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: have a link handy?
1592769;1483047548;mircea_popescu;just search for me screaming "there's only one genesis" and frothing at the mouth.
1592770;1483047564;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592756 << that is historical nonsense that got hammered out in a large discussion when it was actually brought to the forum. << ok
1592771;1483047564;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 21:10 mod6: "# It is entirely possible to have more than one root! ... exactly how, is left as an exercise for readers."
1592772;1483047607;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-he-pauses-blank-incomprehension/ << Trilema - Disgrace - He pauses. Blank incomprehension.
1592773;1483047723;pete_dushenski;anyone else have nodes getting blackholed with 'received getdata for: block 0000000xxxx' ? it's getting tiresome.
1592774;1483047758;mircea_popescu;you mean ancient blocks ?
1592775;1483047817;pete_dushenski;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/X8TUd/?raw=true << ?
1592776;1483048052;pete_dushenski;the above is a snippet from the debug.log and the result is a ~frozen machine. doesn't respond to rpc commands the way machines blackholed by, say, 'askfor tx' does.
1592777;1483048235;pete_dushenski;now-frozen machine has lots of cores, lots of ram, and is running trb.
1592778;1483049071;pete_dushenski;but ya, looks like ancient blocks in and around the 300k mark
1592779;1483049111;shinohai;mircea_popescu will be saddened to know the inventor of the red Solo cup has died.
1592780;1483049137;deedbot;http://fr.anco.is/2016/two-cans-one-string-kraken-edition << fr.anco.is - Two cans, one string. Kraken edition.
1592781;1483049142;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski why is your node asking for these ? or is it ?
1592782;1483049151;mircea_popescu;shinohai the who ?!
1592783;1483049188;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i have sincerely nfi why my node is asking for these. it's at ~full height.
1592784;1483049197;mircea_popescu;hm.
1592785;1483049203;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592737 <<< convention over configuration! trollface.jpg
1592786;1483049203;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 21:04 ben_vulpes: mod6: moreover the general case is looking to be "project-genesis.vpatch"
1592787;1483049209;shinohai;The guy that gave us the red cups that were prominently displayed in pr0n listings at one point this year.
1592788;1483049659;*;davout is finally done writing the kraken's team indictment
1592789;1483050081;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-02#1184469 << canonical 'getdata' lulz, never afaik rectified, and an evident blackhole vector.
1592790;1483050081;a111;Logged on 2015-07-02 20:44 ascii_field: 'getdata is used in response to inv... ...t can be used to retrieve transactions, but only if they are in the memory pool or relay set - arbitrary access to transactions in the chain is not allowed to avoid having clients start to depend on nodes having full transaction indexes (which modern nodes do not).'
1592791;1483050093;ben_vulpes;welcome back davout
1592792;1483050118;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: asking or being asked?
1592793;1483050132;pete_dushenski;the latter
1592794;1483050146;*;davout hands ben_vulpes some wine
1592795;1483050220;ben_vulpes;local pressings any good?
1592796;1483050403;ben_vulpes;davout: this is sop for american retail brokers as well. even were you to have the cash on hand to buy the underlying outright unless you jump through very specific and hard to find hoops retail brokerages will lend you the capital to take the position you intended to enter under your own steam
1592797;1483050409;ben_vulpes;marvelous trick
1592798;1483050459;davout;ben_vulpes: it's even worse here, it's to *exit* a position
1592799;1483050511;ben_vulpes;shoulda said "looks like a variant on another classic retail scam"
1592800;1483050520;ben_vulpes;surely you need to borrow /more/ money
1592801;1483051179;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8099-how_do_we_know_our_prngs_work_properly
1592802;1483051209;asciilifeform;seems like there is an entire series of these .
1592803;1483051211;ben_vulpes;did ccc publish transcripts for these somewhere?
1592804;1483051217;asciilifeform;not afaik
1592805;1483051228;asciilifeform;maybe jurov , who saw it fit to share these with the heathens instead of with us, knows.
1592806;1483051276;jurov;i know of no transcripts, just youtube autosubtitles, and only few vids are on yt
1592807;1483051318;asciilifeform;unlike the earlier film, klebanov -- afaik -- really ~did~ find this booby.
1592808;1483051356;ben_vulpes;in other unholy file formats: https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296.pdf
1592809;1483051447;ben_vulpes;some tiny amount of finger pointing followed by owasp best practices
1592810;1483051454;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: lel, 1 single 'yara' sig
1592811;1483051465;asciilifeform;for... a php infector?
1592812;1483051474;ben_vulpes;thought you might find it amusing
1592813;1483051492;asciilifeform;i can picture the intern who was ordered to produce this gem
1592814;1483051502;ben_vulpes;"obab demands we say something nasty about the russkies. so...hey php is vulnerable and shit"
1592815;1483051506;asciilifeform;'write the memo' 'i have no clearance, and no dirt' 'WRITE THE MEMO'
1592816;1483051525;ben_vulpes;pretty mich
1592817;1483051566;asciilifeform;also what is one to do with the list of internal usg names for various trojans
1592818;1483051579;asciilifeform;i can try to stuff it up arse, but it is full
1592819;1483051603;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580182
1592820;1483051603;a111;Logged on 2016-12-09 02:38 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform should probably poop more often
1592821;1483051605;asciilifeform;'Tsar Team' << ahahaha
1592822;1483051618;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nah, full of the previous installment of same
1592823;1483051636;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: is practicing retention?
1592824;1483051656;ben_vulpes;i find a relaxed colon makes for a relaxed thinker
1592825;1483051668;ben_vulpes;'pucker only in times of stress', i say
1592826;1483051676;asciilifeform;needs very relaxed, to admit pile of obummery
1592827;1483051695;ben_vulpes;aha, air gaping
1592828;1483051746;asciilifeform;meanwhile, watch out for treachery of 'OLDBAIT' , 'SEADADDY', 'Operation Pawn Storm', and of course 'Powershell backdoor' (OH NOEZ!!!!)
1592829;1483051825;ben_vulpes;run moar macos or how does it go
1592830;1483051826;pete_dushenski;in other inequalities, latest taleb : https://medium.com/@nntaleb/inequality-and-skin-in-the-game-d8f00bc0cb46#_edn3.14k1h647w
1592831;1483051853;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski there's really no good reason to not serve arbitrart txn data. the  fact that "modern" prb nodes can't support this is entirely their doom.
1592832;1483051857;pete_dushenski;fuckin medium tho seriously. ugliest urls evar.
1592833;1483051866;mircea_popescu;of course this also requires better indexing than currently done. but anyway
1592834;1483051887;asciilifeform;which data
1592835;1483051927;mircea_popescu;transactions, not  in the memory pool or relay set
1592836;1483051949;ben_vulpes;wait, what is the difference between mempool and relay set?
1592837;1483051960;mircea_popescu;don't ask, live longer.
1592838;1483051969;asciilifeform;no diff on trb
1592839;1483051977;ben_vulpes;cool
1592840;1483051979;ben_vulpes;gross
1592841;1483051984;ben_vulpes;now i really want to know
1592842;1483051986;asciilifeform;well, no ~clean~ diff
1592843;1483051995;asciilifeform;there's a bunch of if-then crapolade
1592844;1483052001;asciilifeform;open yer 3ring and weep.
1592845;1483052017;ben_vulpes;quote me a chapter and verse?
1592846;1483052097;ben_vulpes;jurov: would you be so kind as to update the lxr with makefiles.vpatch ?
1592847;1483052111;jurov;yep
1592848;1483052116;ben_vulpes;ty
1592849;1483052139;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=vInventoryToSend
1592850;1483052185;asciilifeform;in particular, this bit of nonsense: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2339
1592851;1483052206;asciilifeform;^ is probably what mircea_popescu was thinking of ^
1592852;1483052267;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i don't disagree from a philosophical standpoint but nor can i tolerate having dead fucking trb nodes. that i should have to reboot a machine ~daily~ is the death of bitcoin. yukoners never had it so bad.
1592853;1483052290;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: you have to reboot the whole machine?
1592854;1483052299;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: be so kind as to post plox some logs from your node during and immediately prior to and after the blackhole
1592855;1483052304;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592829 << you remember how they used to have those "stripping all the extras" hacks for windows. like a tool that would unpack windows xp installer, remove whatever shit author knew how to remove, and then repack it, so you get windows with random gunk. you know of anything like that for mac? i wonder if i can roll 10.9 without any of the /Applications/ etc.
1592856;1483052304;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 22:50 ben_vulpes: run moar macos or how does it go
1592857;1483052352;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: rpc unresponsive so... ya.
1592858;1483052357;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: kk
1592859;1483052359;mircea_popescu;jesus fuck what a request
1592860;1483052387;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: kill -9 may help
1592861;1483052397;ben_vulpes;mildly less painful than restarting whole machine
1592862;1483052402;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: from your telling, it seems that there was no 'after'. so let's have the 'before' and 'during'
1592863;1483052437;ben_vulpes;phf: i only used windows as a wee one in school labs and a mildly less wee one in cad labs, so no idea re administration haxery
1592864;1483052441;asciilifeform;and can you get a core dump out of the thing pete_dushenski
1592865;1483052486;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the thing phf refers to , is in use still, whenever i make (yes) xp box! < 400MB! (lighter weight than, e.g., africa-linux)
1592866;1483052492;mircea_popescu;davout the deep problem there, with kraken as well as with any other of these websites, which is to say scams, is that YOU DO NOT get to pocket anything. in your case this was a loss, but in the case of bitfinex running away with millions in "profits" its inept "users" were supposed to have accrued but never did, the mechanism was more clearly in view
1592867;1483052530;mircea_popescu;iirc this even made it to qntra, because the usg.dept of legal pretense's failure to act was exactly just as much damning of the whitehouse website based in maryland as of the bitfinex website based in nowhere.
1592868;1483052563;ben_vulpes;phf: i have no idea how to fix macos
1592869;1483052637;phf;ok
1592870;1483052669;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3biVT/?raw=true << last however many lines from debug.log. it just keeps going on like this. gimme a sec on core dump.
1592871;1483052798;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-does-she-know-what/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Does she know what
1592872;1483052807;ben_vulpes;phf: moreover i'm too ferklempt over how the thing's changed since 10.2 to want much to do with it anymore
1592873;1483052833;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: this'd be the genuine article
1592874;1483052867;asciilifeform;spray of crapolade from $somebody, designed to bog down your node and have it lose all peers
1592875;1483052893;asciilifeform;also i see some 'connect() failed after select(): Connection refused' which iirc is bleeding edge prb kicking trb out
1592876;1483052930;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: any idea how prb identifies a trb node?
1592877;1483053262;jurov;ben_vulpes: prb 0.11 and newer insist on using improved protocol
1592878;1483053296;mircea_popescu;sooner rather than later we have to attend to these sillynesses.
1592879;1483053300;jurov;forgot which bip was that
1592880;1483053316;ben_vulpes;hm
1592881;1483053321;ben_vulpes;dipshits
1592882;1483053326;jurov;if they see peer does not support it, drop the connection
1592883;1483053350;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski looks like stock blackholing. ipban the offenders, see what happens.
1592884;1483053379;asciilifeform;one thing that palpably helps is the aws banhammer.
1592885;1483053384;mircea_popescu;yes.
1592886;1483053411;mircea_popescu;anyway - properly indexing txn so that we deliver the full data set ; properly handling the blackhole thing will actually ruin prb because nobody's fuycking migrating to their new protocol.
1592887;1483053444;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: blackhole, in my current understanding, is at least 4 distinct things
1592888;1483053451;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: have done some, will try more banning.
1592889;1483053453;asciilifeform;(that lead to same state - wedged node)
1592890;1483053454;mircea_popescu;this'd make some fine subject of a priority work order, the only problem is that it's so intricate and we aren't fans of doing the work n times. but once trb sits down on a sql-fs it would all fall in place.
1592891;1483053472;asciilifeform;and it is not in fact held up by the fs thing.
1592892;1483053474;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the idea, as idiscussed a few days ago, is to separate things and queue.
1592893;1483053510;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ultimately for so long as peers are unauthenticated and speak unauthenticated plaintext , there will be type4 blackhole.
1592894;1483053520;mircea_popescu;never mind that.
1592895;1483053522;asciilifeform;(the one unattributable to overload of any type)
1592896;1483053550;asciilifeform;and for so long as block verification is single-processor, there will remain type1
1592897;1483053583;ben_vulpes;while you're at it, type2 and type3 are?
1592898;1483053656;asciilifeform;type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way
1592899;1483053774;asciilifeform;type3 (this taxonomy is strictly from asciilifeform's notes, and is no canonical animal of any kind) is the 'thinking man's shitflood', where requested inventory is not a DOS by virtue of ~quantity~, but ~quality~ (flood of questionable but not immediately/cheaply rejectable material)
1592900;1483053831;asciilifeform;4 is where 1,2,3 can be ruled out with some confidence. could be mircea_popescu's 'magic packet', or just about anything, i have ~0 useful data.
1592901;1483053855;ben_vulpes;ty asciilifeform
1592902;1483053868;asciilifeform;i suppose for completeness one ought to include a '5' -- foolish folx who think that 4GB / non-ECC ddr4 / etc. is a trb node
1592903;1483053942;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has been running public nodez longer than i , and iirc has pretty good instrumentation, he might have something to add to this thread .
1592904;1483054341;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591573 << the diff line is distinct from the --- / +++ lines, does one ever see a patch file where the files compared aren't prefixed with a/ or b/ ?
1592905;1483054341;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 02:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
1592906;1483054644;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: thoughts on resolution to directed type2 floods ? the ips drowing me atm are from all over the map - china, spain, verizon, mci - no aws to speak of.
1592907;1483054660;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the 'a' and 'b' are historic artifacts from my torture room. but notice, gnudiff ignores the name.
1592908;1483054695;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: the only long-term answer is full wotnetization of the nodes.
1592909;1483054702;asciilifeform;but it isn't happening tonight.
1592910;1483054717;*;pete_dushenski sighs deeply
1592911;1483054753;asciilifeform;and it isn't clear what will happen in re miners, for instance, when it does.
1592912;1483054964;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: ah
1592913;1483054966;asciilifeform;one theoretical solution to every type of blackhole other than the (theoretical) 'nsa sprays shit directly into the pipe on the backbone' is to make trb actually multiprocess
1592914;1483054980;asciilifeform;but it is also not clear to me whether this can be done and the result still referred to as 'trb'.
1592915;1483054987;asciilifeform;it WILL have variant semantics.
1592916;1483054992;asciilifeform;and unquantifiably so.
1592917;1483055025;ben_vulpes;what means "semantics" wrt operation of this proggy?
1592918;1483055165;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592904 << i just pasted diff so that i didn't have to do two lines :} corresponding +++ --- lines are
1592919;1483055165;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 23:32 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591573 << the diff line is distinct from the --- / +++ lines, does one ever see a patch file where the files compared aren't prefixed with a/ or b/ ?
1592920;1483055167;phf;--- /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/XKeysymDB fd8e6454cb410b82d1aeabc2b91c1
1592921;1483055168;phf;19f491ecb5008a5194a125b20440e1a1f3d10824c89e71651453a781ae7fe34c26860a241e1db8c8
1592922;1483055168;phf;d7a372aec5b46c0d842
1592923;1483055171;phf;+++ src/XKeysymDB false
1592924;1483055180;ben_vulpes;yup, i see now
1592925;1483055399;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: same as in any other proggy
1592926;1483055400;phf;fwiw patch format is super promisetronic. it's something along the lines of "command that was used to produce the hunks\nhunks..."
1592927;1483055414;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: semantics is , more or less, what the proggy ~is~
1592928;1483055441;asciilifeform;different semantics - different proggy. with different behaviour . different outputs for same inputs. etc
1592929;1483055464;asciilifeform;phf: it is a terrible format and is not to remain.
1592930;1483055472;asciilifeform;as soon as there is a viable replacement.
1592931;1483055483;phf;so if you diff is called "gdiff" or whatever (because you're on bsd) it's entirely legal for it to say gdiff -ruN a b
1592932;1483055493;phf;in the "command that was used..." line
1592933;1483055494;asciilifeform;(which, if it is left up to me, will look like teco macros. so if anyone does not like this shape, had better come up with another.)
1592934;1483055517;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: pedantically, each patch then produces semantically new program?
1592935;1483055551;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: not each (nixing the win32 #ifdefs did not, for so long as nobody is dumb enough to try to build for win32)
1592936;1483055561;asciilifeform;but some -- did. the orphanage removals certainly did.
1592937;1483055573;asciilifeform;ditto 'malleus'.
1592938;1483055602;asciilifeform;the important thing to observe , in each case, is whether it changed semantics in a way that can be ~understood~
1592939;1483055651;asciilifeform;in the case of the orphanages, they had 0 constructive purpose. they were like the 'death glands' on that one species of octopus. snip'em and you get octopus that lives for +2 yrs and no other effect.
1592940;1483055656;phf;asciilifeform: you know you could've gone with diff -e instead, in which case almost exactly "like teco macros"
1592941;1483055681;asciilifeform;phf: does it needleman-wunsch ?
1592942;1483055711;asciilifeform;stock gnudiff is brain-meltingly dumb re minimality of diffage.
1592943;1483055847;phf;well, in the simplest case (i.e. if you're using gnudiff) you're  still just going to get the diff's take on "delete this line, add this line", but the ~format~ would be an ed script out of the box, so can have pretty complex transforms
1592944;1483055850;asciilifeform;phf: diff -e has own serious problems (it 'enmagics' the '.' character, for instance.)
1592945;1483055863;asciilifeform;NO MOTHERFUCKING INBAND MAGICS
1592946;1483055867;asciilifeform;ffs.
1592947;1483055915;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3NXcp/?raw=true << what FUCKGOATS release would have looked like, in that mode.
1592948;1483055942;asciilifeform;(i did not have any lines beginning with '.', so i have nfi what the escape would have looked like. but there WOULD be one.)
1592949;1483056055;phf;there's no "escape" as such. instead it generates an adhoc escape (say replace dot with ZZ or whatever) and then patches that one line using s///.
1592950;1483056056;asciilifeform;phf: 'ed-style' diff outputs are the Right Thing, but done the ~proper~ way, with NO INBAND MAGIC, and not the monkey way.
1592951;1483056062;asciilifeform;ick.
1592952;1483056073;phf;well, that's not inband magic! still "ick"
1592953;1483056080;asciilifeform;it's magic
1592954;1483056089;asciilifeform;if there's a forbidden char or string --- that is called magic.
1592955;1483056104;asciilifeform;the alternative, the correct one, is 'next N bytes are payload'.
1592956;1483056110;asciilifeform;and THEY CAN BE ANY OCTET
1592957;1483056155;asciilifeform;the '.' operator in 'diff -e' is the magic.
1592958;1483056212;phf;it's \n.\n
1592959;1483056214;asciilifeform;one can debate whether the persians are right to cut hands off thieves. but the hands of folx who write programs like this, i cannot see any reason why they should stay attached.
1592960;1483056236;asciilifeform;phf: USES nonprintables in the magic ?! even deeper retardation.
1592961;1483056271;*;asciilifeform 'can't even', takes break, off to play with 10kg joystick, and then with pet
1592962;1483056288;phf;newline is not a non-printable
1592963;1483056380;phf;ffs, i resent being placed in a position of defending something that i'm not responsible nor care for. diff -e would've been closer to "teco macros", but it's the "sane teco macros" we're talking about here, etc. etc. etc.
1592964;1483056384;mircea_popescu;in other news, obama's been doing more reality tv work than the entire kardashian extended family these past few days.
1592965;1483056431;mircea_popescu;it's the irony of all time that while the progre press was derping about how trump will lose the election and try to turn it around into a television show, the reality turned out to be he won the election AND OBAMA is trying to turn his losership into a tv personality
1592966;1483056486;ben_vulpes;eh, obab's just wants to grab some pussy
1592967;1483056494;ben_vulpes;s/'s//
1592968;1483056504;mircea_popescu;like the golfer guy what's his name
1592969;1483056537;ben_vulpes;woods?
1592970;1483056570;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no the classification proposed is quite serviceable.
1592971;1483056601;mircea_popescu;aha yeah woods
1592972;1483056618;mircea_popescu;!!key mlcmolina
1592973;1483056618;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/8450B3D7AD8AE9D9FB2A0FCBCB5A7CD47D66FE7B.asc
1592974;1483056647;mircea_popescu;uh why do i get a 404
1592975;1483056661;mircea_popescu;trinque ^ ?
1592976;1483056663;ben_vulpes;trinque ^^
1592977;1483056688;ben_vulpes;C-k, not C-j, kid...
1592978;1483056750;mircea_popescu;wut ?
1592979;1483056798;mircea_popescu;phf i guess we will sooner or later have to actually formulate the patch format yeah.
1592980;1483056884;mircea_popescu;re octopus - no other effect individually ; but living long is bad for the species, as hillary well exemplifies.
1592981;1483057162;mircea_popescu;http://akphoto2.ask.fm/7a8/29f1b/e255/41d8/a375/1905a754e8d6/original/559106.jpg << here's something for phf. cheer up!
1592982;1483058238;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1592962 << news to me
1592983;1483058238;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 00:04 phf: newline is not a non-printable
1592984;1483058650;trinque;mircea_popescu: it'll be up there in a sec, let ya know
1592985;1483058671;mircea_popescu;kk
1592986;1483058763;trinque;gotta finish writing the thing that triggers granular (per-nick) updates, leaning on a full rebuild for now.
1592987;1483058850;trinque;ben_vulpes and I had an interesting conversation yesterday about how to handle static sites generated from a db. idea we ended up with was that we'd have triggers which emit a pg_notify signal when the "dirty bit" has flipped for any page.
1592988;1483058898;trinque;db operator has to go through and manually apply these triggers. for example, updates on either a "to" or "from" rating will require a rebuild of the nick pages in both directions.
1592989;1483058929;ben_vulpes;i am very much a fan of this design
1592990;1483058945;asciilifeform;trinque: why would you generate the site from a db? more than once, i mean
1592991;1483058949;ben_vulpes;please to never have code near an httptron
1592992;1483058960;asciilifeform;why have 2 representations of same thing on disk ?
1592993;1483058962;trinque;there's a listening process consuming these pg_notify events, of the form (gen-nick-page "trinque") which debounces them according to some sane interval, i.e. if a few updates hit the same user in a short span, it will result in one single rebuild
1592994;1483058973;trinque;asciilifeform: because people update their ratings
1592995;1483058988;asciilifeform;so update the html?
1592996;1483058988;trinque;ben_vulpes: and yes, app code needn't be anywhere near www
1592997;1483058997;trinque;asciilifeform: that is precisely what I just said
1592998;1483059006;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: exactly :D
1592999;1483059007;asciilifeform;yes but why have the sql db then
1593000;1483059010;trinque;wtf
1593001;1483059010;asciilifeform;at all
1593002;1483059015;asciilifeform;anywhere
1593003;1483059022;trinque;this model has nothing to do with sql
1593004;1483059031;trinque;and everything to do with shitty html flowing from properly structured data
1593005;1483059063;asciilifeform;the mention of pg_notify
1593006;1483059073;ben_vulpes;trinque: just sed and awk the html you have in place to update ratings
1593007;1483059077;trinque;oh ok
1593008;1483059077;asciilifeform;hence i ask 'why have 2'
1593009;1483059092;trinque;I am not using html as a data storage format what the hell
1593010;1483059093;trinque;lol
1593011;1483059097;ben_vulpes;no it's fine
1593012;1483059099;ben_vulpes;deduplication
1593013;1483059112;ben_vulpes;parsing html isn't even hard
1593014;1483059156;trinque;asciilifeform: the question answered here is "why regenerate the same idiot HTML every www request?"
1593015;1483059161;trinque;and the answer is don't
1593016;1483059198;asciilifeform;i've seriously considered reimplementing phuctor in this shape. as it is, it loses more from the slow writes idiotically queuing up, and the wedged reads that result, than it wins from fast structured queries.
1593017;1483059255;ben_vulpes;"this shape" being selective html regeneration? or mutation in place?
1593018;1483059259;trinque;wot.deedbot.org will likely result in two genesis patches down the line. one for the tool, other for the particular site
1593019;1483059267;trinque;if asciilifeform should ever want it
1593020;1483059278;asciilifeform;~displaying a www page~ oughta be an O(1) op, really
1593021;1483059285;asciilifeform;in ~all~ cases.
1593022;1483059290;ben_vulpes;mhm.
1593023;1483059369;asciilifeform;trinque: mircea_popescu will probably barf if the 2 genesisen get displayed on same screen. it isn't an eggog in vtronics, but is in his head.
1593024;1483059444;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: 'this shape' being 'html as-seen-by-reader as the only storage format'
1593025;1483059525;asciilifeform;i've developed a loathing, inexpressible in words, for postgres and all things like it
1593026;1483059544;trinque;I am not moving from it until I have another database in hand
1593027;1483059557;asciilifeform;why the FUCK should a READ block because ~wholly unrelated datum is being written~
1593028;1483059580;asciilifeform;and why the FUCK is 10,000 writes/sec 'too much'
1593029;1483059593;asciilifeform;is it 1971? am i on a drum disk?
1593030;1483059602;trinque;yeah yeah. /dev/null is even faster
1593031;1483059620;trinque;but the right answer is as much or as little structure enforcement as you like.
1593032;1483059625;asciilifeform;my fs can eat GB/s r/w without breaking a sweat
1593033;1483059651;trinque;this is not the direction from which to come at this subject
1593034;1483059668;trinque;conflated in "database" is both a user interface and a programming environment
1593035;1483059686;asciilifeform;elaborate?
1593036;1483059726;trinque;as the shell is a user interface, in the first case
1593037;1483059832;trinque;recall I conceded in the bitcoinfs thread that what I consider to be "database" is actually many orthogonal tools related to data manipulation, atomicity of operations, adherence to type constraints ~if desired~
1593038;1483059868;trinque;^ programming environment
1593039;1483059893;asciilifeform;all of the orthogonal tools must be mercilessly cut apart, yes.
1593040;1483059952;asciilifeform;but so must orthogonal ~operations~. under nk circumstances is blocking on UNRELATED op, tolerablr
1593041;1483059958;asciilifeform;tolerable
1593042;1483059974;asciilifeform;it is monumentally retarded, as a mere possibility in a system
1593043;1483059988;trinque;that sounds like a bug, really, but the kind of bug the complexity of the thing makes hard to remove
1593044;1483060014;asciilifeform;imagine your cock didn't work if 10,000 others in town were in use.
1593045;1483060240;mircea_popescu;trinque i think that's how pretty much everyone ends up doing things.
1593046;1483060255;trinque;mircea_popescu: ah you know what, excluding nicks with no ratings breaks this, because writing the keyfile happens inside that logic.
1593047;1483060270;trinque;I'll instead write the page and exclude from the index
1593048;1483060280;trinque;noobs can aspire to be named there
1593049;1483060288;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570951 << see also
1593050;1483060288;a111;Logged on 2016-11-19 18:52 asciilifeform: Framedragger: db being hammered 24/7 with 'do we have this hash' 'do we have this fp' 'add this and this' 1000/sec is the bottle.
1593051;1483060311;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there would be two trees not "two genesises" in his idea, he's making a tree for the site and a tree for the tooling.
1593052;1483060320;trinque;aha
1593053;1483060326;asciilifeform;aite
1593054;1483060343;mircea_popescu;and gtfo with the inept simile, the correct comparison is "imagine if your cock didn't work if there was already one in the target woman". which i bet yours doesn't, so really.
1593055;1483060354;trinque;asciilifeform: we poor bastards who made money living inside SQL find ways to make it work.
1593056;1483060374;trinque;but if not sooner, I have orthogonal organs of database given independent life as a retirement project
1593057;1483060387;mircea_popescu;trinque ok so can i get this guy's key he's kinda weaiting for an acct.
1593058;1483060417;asciilifeform;trinque: my understanding is that these ways typically involve clusters of machines, duplicate db, and very elaborate/failure-prone synchronizers
1593059;1483060487;trinque;mircea_popescu: yep works now
1593060;1483060488;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no, it is specifically 'doesn't work because ~nearly there is a cock-shaped shadow~
1593061;1483060489;trinque;!!key mlcmolina
1593062;1483060489;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/8450B3D7AD8AE9D9FB2A0FCBCB5A7CD47D66FE7B.asc
1593063;1483060497;asciilifeform;*nearby
1593064;1483060499;mircea_popescu;ty
1593065;1483060503;trinque;and I'm tweaking the site generator
1593066;1483060523;mircea_popescu;aaa+++ would use again.
1593067;1483060581;trinque;asciilifeform: aside "write a data manipulation environment that provides what trinque demands" I do not see a path here.
1593068;1483060644;asciilifeform;how much of 'what trinque wants here' is unobtainable by simply abusing the fs ?
1593069;1483060760;trinque;when I build things to ask the fs how many customers in new york placed orders on the weekend it starts to look quite like a relational db
1593070;1483060804;asciilifeform;yeah but one that doesn't motherfucking grind to a halt when read 1000/sec omfg
1593071;1483060839;trinque;could be. I'd like to see the design for such a thing.
1593072;1483060851;mircea_popescu;we still didn't see the profiling for the symlink thing\
1593073;1483060855;mircea_popescu;i'd expect it'd be informative.
1593074;1483060880;asciilifeform;picture reiserfs , but without the idiot fortranistic hard limits on nodes, lengths, etc
1593075;1483060898;mircea_popescu;if it starts with picture it can't be a part of this discussion.
1593076;1483060948;asciilifeform;then take standard reiser. but in that case you grunt under entirely arbitrary procrusting .
1593077;1483062921;phf;picture a spherical horse in vacuum (tm) (c)
1593078;1483063271;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-never-mind-note-that-we/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Never mind. Note that we
1593079;1483063356;phf;asciilifeform: i will have to concede, (graphic-char-p #\newline) NIL
1593080;1483063385;asciilifeform;if drum printer dun go 'bang' when it gets the octet - it ain't 'printable.'
1593081;1483063390;asciilifeform;even if it ~does~ go whrrrrr.
1593082;1483063419;phf;well, (graphic-char-p #\space) T
1593083;1483063440;asciilifeform;ullage!1111
1593084;1483063874;mircea_popescu;lmao
1593085;1483063925;mircea_popescu;phf for my own curiosity, does anything in the rest of your life piss you off as much in aggregate as one session with these assholes ?
1593086;1483064589;phf;hehe, as much? no. but that's only because if there's one lesson i learned from naggum, all this rage is not healthy.
1593087;1483065107;mircea_popescu;tru.
1593088;1483066164;phf;also i learned long time ago that americans* aren't taught how to argue properly, so when they do they have a really hard time keeping the thread, keeping more than one point, developing an argument, bringing it back to original point, etc. consensus intelligentsia are all very civil, so when you do get them railed up, they just flail, sort of discourages from even trying
1593089;1483067132;mircea_popescu;hm.
1593090;1483067322;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/18B7C700E3D732F13B498BE6777E8C50040F0BE90CC086A78993AEB30CCB803B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.157 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.157 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG)
1593091;1483067322;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/05654F6204A0FB615199D4DB4E442FFFCA74621F46A18B5E74CB978504E480F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.148 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.148 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG)
1593092;1483067322;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/763930076E165275AF7659105A2A31F61AE3FBF931A7E188B2DC146EFFC7CF49 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.147 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG)
1593093;1483067322;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E840C2FC34B3F9B8B95E6D12E18267E717ACBE1494C34DFA9055710347573A7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '116.105.59.120 (ssh-rsa key from 116.105.59.120 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown VN 64)
1593094;1483068282;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-it-is-raining/ << Trilema - Disgrace - It is raining.
1593095;1483068376;trinque;lol, but then russians take the thread wherever they like without telling anyone.
1593096;1483069526;trinque;phf: when I brought to you "whence the disjunction between the practical and theoretical sides of subj" your output was "OP == faggot"
1593097;1483069528;trinque;lets not speak of flailing
1593098;1483071763;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-you-say-you-have-not/ << Trilema - Disgrace - You say you have not
1593099;1483073198;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592918 << ftr i hate the solution for this that i have on disk
1593100;1483073198;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 23:46 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592904 << i just pasted diff so that i didn't have to do two lines :} corresponding +++ --- lines are
1593101;1483073220;ben_vulpes;a) capture output of `patch' to determine which files were patched
1593102;1483073299;ben_vulpes;b) when working through the list of each patch's children, search through the list of patched files until the patched filepath is a subsequence of the filename as recorded in the vpatch
1593103;1483073308;ben_vulpes;c) hash that file and compare to the vpatch contents
1593104;1483073364;ben_vulpes;the only other thing that i can think to do here is to grab the set of parents and children, match them up, and then get the lowest common denominator (if you will) file path for each patched file directly from the vpatch
1593105;1483073440;ben_vulpes;standby, let me test a third approach
1593106;1483073565;ben_vulpes;the third approach is to apply each patch to an empty directory and determine what files would have been patched, had it applied cleanly.
1593107;1483073582;ben_vulpes;but i hate 3 for obvious reasons
1593108;1483073603;ben_vulpes;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FnxeR/?raw=true
1593109;1483074460;phf;ben_vulpes: well, we're kind of constrained by the hardcode -p1 behavior, but i've no idea if that's an implementation detail or a spec
1593110;1483074505;phf;of v that is
1593111;1483074584;ben_vulpes;i've been frowning at -p1 for a bit now
1593112;1483074874;phf;so the simplest solution would be to at least parametrize an equivalent of -p1 on lisp side
1593113;1483075042;mircea_popescu;what is -p1 again ?
1593114;1483075054;ben_vulpes;how many prefixes to strip
1593115;1483075057;phf;-p1 means a/foo/bar gets pressed as foo/bar
1593116;1483075082;phf;with p2 same guy gets pressed as bar
1593117;1483075154;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-at-first-they-do-not/ << Trilema - Disgrace - At first they do not
1593118;1483075182;ben_vulpes;phf: patch will apply something cleanly with mismatched depths, won't it?
1593119;1483075208;trinque;patch will ignore the number of levels you specified with -p
1593120;1483075211;trinque;of path
1593121;1483075362;phf;i think it treats one of the names as canonical
1593122;1483075409;ben_vulpes;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema-mod6?d=2016-12-29#3 << thread in #trilema-mod6
1593123;1483075564;phf;actually patch seems to do ... something magical
1593124;1483075576;ben_vulpes;RIGHT?!
1593125;1483075663;ben_vulpes;would a smallest common substring test suffice here?
1593126;1483075891;phf;that's what btcbase does basically. it finds position where common suffix starts and then works from there..
1593127;1483076073;phf;but i'm starting to think it's an overkill anyway, because it doesn't accommodate for all possible insane patch inputs.
1593128;1483076169;ben_vulpes;what's an insane input that breaks the shortest common substring test?
1593129;1483076324;phf;patch/diff lets you have a patch with --- foo +++ bar in which case it seems to ~check if foo exists, then try and press against foo, otherwise press against bar~
1593130;1483076434;phf;so if you were to produce a patch with a/old-veh.lisp and b/veh.lisp. existing vtrons will happily press it, though it's a total clusterfuck
1593131;1483076478;ben_vulpes;gross.kpeg
1593132;1483076482;phf;actually that's a bad example because that'll work, but a/old.lisp and b/veh.lisp
1593133;1483076564;mod6;anyway, yeah, as I said in #trilema-mod6, i see this as low-priority and SUPER high risk.  but I'm open to suggestions how to implement this properly and safely.
1593134;1483076744;ben_vulpes;phf: i actually can't get patch c/old.lisp and d/veh.lisp to apply derp.vpatch
1593135;1483076746;ben_vulpes;standby 1
1593136;1483076924;ben_vulpes;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/O687q/?raw=true
1593137;1483076988;phf;ben_vulpes: where'd that 0 come from?
1593138;1483077056;ben_vulpes;i have nfi
1593139;1483077071;phf;also you're missing genesis
1593140;1483077095;mod6;i think you maybe mean '-F' instead of '-f', it thinks 0 is a file
1593141;1483077134;ben_vulpes;COOL
1593142;1483077251;phf;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/udP9e/?raw=true
1593143;1483077314;ben_vulpes;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FF1IA/?raw=true
1593144;1483077399;ben_vulpes;1 thing of note is that your example patches an extant file in holyfuq/
1593145;1483077465;ben_vulpes;would it be unreasonable to calve this scenario off?
1593146;1483077500;ben_vulpes;oh
1593147;1483077502;ben_vulpes;hm
1593148;1483077583;ben_vulpes;okay i see
1593149;1483077769;ben_vulpes;good to know that terminal prompt of yours survived the trip through the pastebin
1593150;1483077811;phf;also the old school way of making a genesis http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JQxyU/?raw=true
1593151;1483077923;ben_vulpes;what is `p'?
1593152;1483077940;ben_vulpes;"tee p" just papers your house with the output or what
1593153;1483077982;ben_vulpes;i would also like to see the vdiff into which you're piping diff, mostly out of curiosity
1593154;1483077983;phf;tee writes piped input to stdout and to a file
1593155;1483077999;ben_vulpes;ah <p gotcha
1593156;1483078033;ben_vulpes;eager juvenile algos are eager and juvenile
1593157;1483078098;phf;vdiff here http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/r01nj/?raw=true it's the same old vdiff except if you pipe into it, it assumes you're piping in a patch, otherwise it acts as normal vdiff
1593158;1483078125;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D2FDFCE450D0A058B385E0E94E0E57E611A3EBF385B30F77CF915C96BDE19B97 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.215.85.243 (ssh-rsa key from 95.215.85.243 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-95.215.85.243.ongnet.ru. RU)
1593159;1483078195;ben_vulpes;ah i see
1593160;1483078433;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-20#1485519
1593161;1483078433;a111;Logged on 2016-06-20 04:23 phf: which is handy if you're using something else to produce the patch, or if you need to use a non-trivial diff command. for example i sometimes need to exclude files from diffing, so a command might look like diff -x foo -x bar -x qux -ruN a b | grep -v '^Binary files ' | vdiff > foo.vpatch
1593162;1483078591;ben_vulpes;aaaaah
1593163;1483078600;ben_vulpes;BLOOD SPORTS
1593164;1483080630;ben_vulpes;phf: when i crack my v again in the morrow, i'm going to implement hash-checking against longest common directory tree
1593165;1483080651;ben_vulpes;^^ mircea_popescu asciilifeform mod6 trinque and any other vtronicists pls to opine
1593166;1483080764;phf;will probably cover majority of cases(tm)(c)
1593167;1483080934;phf;huh, apparently plan 9's diff/patch doesn't even implement unified diff format
1593168;1483080991;ben_vulpes;tight
1593169;1483081017;ben_vulpes;in other unixisms: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Lwefz/?raw=true
1593170;1483081089;ben_vulpes;felipelalli, vexare, wyrdmantis, Sinclair6, luke-jr please fix your bouncers
1593171;1483081154;phf;i noticed that btcbase supports filenames with spaces in them: if you start a filename with " it will read until a closing ". i have no idea where i got this from, because gnu diff/patch don't support spaces in names.
1593172;1483081189;ben_vulpes;wait phf hang on no i don't think i'm going to do the largest common, i think i'm just going to use the output of patch to figure out what was actually patched
1593173;1483081204;ben_vulpes;!up luke-jr well did you read the link or what
1593174;1483081254;phf;ben_vulpes: you mean like ~parse~ the output of patch?
1593175;1483081269;ben_vulpes;phf: when it works, it outputs the list of patched files
1593176;1483081276;phf;aah
1593177;1483081309;ben_vulpes;one can patch an empty directory with an arbitrary patch and extract the filenames patch wanted to hit
1593178;1483081335;ben_vulpes;luke-jr: i know you're awake and reading this because you pm'd me. don't pretend otherwise, it's downright foolish.
1593179;1483081345;ben_vulpes;!!up luke-jr
1593180;1483081346;deedbot;luke-jr voiced for 30 minutes.
1593181;1483081349;luke-jr;I saw the link. didn't see a problem.
1593182;1483081374;ben_vulpes;top 10 in disconnects over the year? no problem?
1593183;1483081389;luke-jr;no problem besides AT&T
1593184;1483081429;ben_vulpes;you want to matter in crypto but "nah bro, it's just my isp" at me?
1593185;1483081507;luke-jr;want to donate $30k so I can get a better ISP? :p
1593186;1483081533;ben_vulpes;what part of bumfuckistan do you live in that prevents colo access?
1593187;1483081578;luke-jr;I don't trust colos.
1593188;1483081595;luke-jr;not that IRC is all that important
1593189;1483081605;ben_vulpes;it's like omfg even aws is barely 10us/mo for a vps you don't have to trust
1593190;1483081623;ben_vulpes;nah, park your boat on the lawn, who cares
1593191;1483081653;ben_vulpes;wear a shirt with last weeks sweat stains on it, it's not like you're that important
1593192;1483081708;davout;luke-jr: it's not like you *have* to idle in the chan, logs are public and if you have something to say, it's a /join away
1593193;1483081738;luke-jr;true
1593194;1483081780;ben_vulpes;a join and an up, which is predicated on the obvious
1593195;1483081870;ben_vulpes;for those who *still* miss the point, joining and parting is opening and closing the squeaky doors on a hall where 5 people are arguing and 500 muffling laughter and groans
1593196;1483081877;ben_vulpes;it is visible and annoying. stop it.
1593197;1483081892;mod6;fwiw you can turn off those messages in your client too.
1593198;1483081939;ben_vulpes;i will not spend the time to figure out how to mute everyone but noobs i've never seen before
1593199;1483081967;ben_vulpes;i see a new face at the back of the hall, i'm going to give them the opportunity to at least say hello and introduce themselves.
1593200;1483082010;mod6;https://weechat.org/files/doc/weechat_faq.en.html#filter_irc_join_part_quit
1593201;1483082033;ben_vulpes;mod6: how does that help me filter luke-jr's spam and not noobs?
1593202;1483082091;ben_vulpes;amusing innit that the father of the since-aborted 'blockchain spam' meme is now spamming irc
1593203;1483082412;*;davout 's trb node is now up and apparently syncing at 62.210.206.141
1593204;1483082556;ben_vulpes;davout: congrats!
1593205;1483082605;ben_vulpes;davout: you will sync far more quickly if you -connect to a single, high reliability, high bandwidth node during sync
1593206;1483082623;ben_vulpes;otherwise trb may decide to ask utter randos for blocks
1593207;1483082661;ben_vulpes;and waste time negotiating connections
1593208;1483082678;ben_vulpes;not that it cannot be done that way, but it is faster other ways.
1593209;1483082705;davout;i have a recent prb node on the same machine, but i'm not sure it's going to work, re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592875
1593210;1483082705;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 23:08 asciilifeform: also i see some 'connect() failed after select(): Connection refused' which iirc is bleeding edge prb kicking trb out
1593211;1483082727;davout;ben_vulpes: any suggestions for such a node?
1593212;1483082800;ben_vulpes;either asciilifeform's or mine
1593213;1483082836;ben_vulpes;i use whirling rust, he -- ssd's.
1593214;1483082856;ben_vulpes;i believe that mod6 has a solid one as well, pete_dushenski's has been blackholed of late
1593215;1483083081;ben_vulpes;i'm off, later davout
1593216;1483083101;davout;allright, ty!
1593217;1483085416;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/30/malibus-most-wanted/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Malibu’s Most Wanted.
1593218;1483089051;davout;OSX, totally the platform sane people develop on "valgrind: This formula either does not compile or function as expected on macOS" hurrrr
1593219;1483089083;davout;"plox to use xcode, where everything works differently, because reasons"
1593220;1483089232;davout;out of curiosity, how long did it take trb node operators to fully sync?
1593221;1483094524;BingoBoingo;davout: 30 days to Februrary 6th 2015 block 34236 in latest sync
1593222;1483094548;BingoBoingo;syncing from wild caught peers
1593223;1483094617;davout;didn't fully sync?
1593224;1483095051;BingoBoingo;not yet, started November 30th
1593225;1483095074;davout;ok
1593226;1483095095;BingoBoingo;need to remind self blockchain only gets longer
1593227;1483100659;davout;i guess patience is in order here
1593228;1483100892;davout;was there a discussion of the use case where one wishes to create, and sign transactions from an arbitrary set of unspent inputs?
1593229;1483102381;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593070 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-21#1571809
1593230;1483102381;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 01:20 asciilifeform: yeah but one that doesn't motherfucking grind to a halt when read 1000/sec omfg
1593231;1483102381;a111;Logged on 2016-11-21 12:48 Framedragger: asciilifeform: since i'm fiddling around with postgres for work anyway, i'm curious, if you find a moment, could you maybe send me the postgresql.conf file on phuctor's machine? i'd take a look (it's very possible you know much more re. what's needed there, but i'm just curious about a coupla parameters, doesn't hurt to check)
1593232;1483102391;Framedragger;would still be interested to take a look, wouldn't hurt.
1593233;1483102411;Framedragger;(i'm thinking about things like size of shared buffers etc)
1593234;1483107442;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593233 << all knobs set to defaults
1593235;1483107442;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 12:53 Framedragger: (i'm thinking about things like size of shared buffers etc)
1593236;1483107454;Framedragger;defaults are shit.
1593237;1483107465;Framedragger;(not defending postgres re. this.)
1593238;1483107491;Framedragger;asciilifeform: do you have an idea how much memory you could allow postgres to eat up? i know you have that other super hardcore thing eating lots of memory on the side
1593239;1483107513;Framedragger;it's something that can be very easily changed and tested without sweat or breaking things.
1593240;1483107514;asciilifeform;say, 64GB
1593241;1483107523;asciilifeform;what'll it give
1593242;1483107534;asciilifeform;disk is not the bottleneck on this box
1593243;1483107549;Framedragger;aha right. i'm doing sth else but i could later ping you with a sample postgres file which you could try out (would need db restart)
1593244;1483107554;Framedragger;things like sorting
1593245;1483107559;Framedragger;if you run EXPLAIN ANALYZE
1593246;1483107569;Framedragger;before query
1593247;1483107569;Framedragger;it'll show what it's doing
1593248;1483107577;Framedragger;(you've probably done this tho)
1593249;1483107581;asciilifeform;aha
1593250;1483107585;asciilifeform;did.
1593251;1483107592;Framedragger;i'm thinking,more memory could help with certain things that db is busy with, incl insertion, even. i'm not sure.
1593252;1483107618;asciilifeform;i even spoke with career dbists, answer was 'your application is monstrous abuse and you need a cluster'
1593253;1483107622;Framedragger;this isn't rigorous, but easy to try.
1593254;1483107637;Framedragger;oh. that's sad. :(
1593255;1483107672;Framedragger;just know that some defaults are really low.
1593256;1483107696;asciilifeform;soo which knob should i max, Framedragger ?
1593257;1483107702;asciilifeform;worth a try
1593258;1483107718;Framedragger;busy for a bit, i don't want to cite you sth without thinking about it
1593259;1483107720;Framedragger;sec
1593260;1483107738;asciilifeform;and what effect will this have on the consequences of yanked mains cord
1593261;1483107774;asciilifeform;because nobody cancelled physical reality, write-caching means vulnerability to mains yanking
1593262;1483107820;asciilifeform;i absolutely can't have a db req returnig before disk is written.
1593263;1483107833;Framedragger;right. i just thought about checkpoint_completion_target (set to say 0.9) which may help with inserts, but ultimately you're right, physical reality
1593264;1483107833;asciilifeform;*returning
1593265;1483107840;Framedragger;none of that.
1593266;1483107859;Framedragger;to be 100% certain, i'd have to check. i see your concerns.
1593267;1483107963;asciilifeform;now if only i had a pill against http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505027
1593268;1483107963;a111;Logged on 2016-07-18 18:08 asciilifeform: i know of no file system that would not choke.
1593269;1483107993;asciilifeform;then -- static html phuctor.
1593270;1483108009;Framedragger;that would be neat..
1593271;1483108035;Framedragger;asciilifeform: i take it you are certain that main bottleneck and 'hogger' is the numerous inserts?
1593272;1483108047;mircea_popescu;goood mornin!
1593273;1483108048;asciilifeform;correct
1593274;1483108062;asciilifeform;guten morgen mircea_popescu !
1593275;1483108075;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: it's dark here in the northern hemisphere, god it's deperessing :( mornin'..
1593276;1483108112;mircea_popescu;ah, it's rainy here, so.
1593277;1483108149;asciilifeform;Framedragger: they aren't only inserts, every key turns into half a dozen to a dozen queries interleaved with inserts
1593278;1483108191;Framedragger;ahh right, i assume those include in-memory sorts
1593279;1483108195;Framedragger;or requirement for sorts anyway
1593280;1483108201;asciilifeform;Framedragger: as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570951
1593281;1483108201;a111;Logged on 2016-11-19 18:52 asciilifeform: Framedragger: db being hammered 24/7 with 'do we have this hash' 'do we have this fp' 'add this and this' 1000/sec is the bottle.
1593282;1483108209;asciilifeform;and no, no sorts there
1593283;1483108214;Framedragger;work_mem (used for in-memory sorts) is 4 MB default. 4 MB. (9.5 anyway). set it to 50 MB as per advisory at least.
1593284;1483108242;asciilifeform;the 'do we haves' could benefit from bigger read cache
1593285;1483108243;Framedragger;ah hm. tbh i'd still change work_mem because it's ridoinculously low by default, but i hear ya.
1593286;1483108256;asciilifeform;i'ma try it soon.
1593287;1483108285;Framedragger;(some of those settings don't require db restart (but may require to 'flush' params), some of them do, best to restart db after all changes are made.)
1593288;1483108328;Framedragger;(do note, 'work_mem' is per user / per request. so may be easier to DoS. thought i should mention this for completeness)
1593289;1483108330;asciilifeform;that means i won't be trying it for couplea weeks. i don't restart db until a current parcel is through submitting.
1593290;1483108340;Framedragger;ah right, yes i see
1593291;1483108393;Framedragger;asciilifeform: any JOINs in those multiple queries for each 'insert'? (if yes, this param should help.)
1593292;1483108393;asciilifeform;(parcels are eaten by script that, presently, has no convenient pause button. and, because unix was dropped as a baby, suspending a process doesn't yield locks, so ~that~ doesn't safely work)
1593293;1483108405;Framedragger;:(
1593294;1483108405;asciilifeform;Framedragger: nope
1593295;1483108407;Framedragger;ok
1593296;1483108497;Framedragger;asciilifeform: docs advise heavily on enabling write cache (but (sanely) insist on battery backup in that case) for your 'loads of inserts per sec' use case..
1593297;1483108538;asciilifeform;the machine isn't at my house and i have no control over the mains supply.
1593298;1483108575;Framedragger;"For situations where a small amount of data loss is acceptable in return  for a large boost in how many updates you can do to the database per  second, consider switching synchronous commit off. This is particularly  useful in the situation where you do not have a battery-backed write  cache on your disk controller, because you could potentially get  thousands of commits per second instead of just a few hundred."
1593299;1483108583;Framedragger;<< need to understand just what does that imply..
1593300;1483108609;asciilifeform;Framedragger was not yet here, but phuctor-1 was quite vulnerable to pulled mains cord ( would lose weeks of work ) and as soon as this became publicly known,
1593301;1483108640;asciilifeform;it was ~immediately~ and ~permanently~ afflicted by 'mysterious' reboots
1593302;1483108647;mircea_popescu;http://kwiva.ru/protiv-hard-forkov/ http://kwiva.ru/protiv-hard-forkov-2/ << apparently russians also exist.
1593303;1483108650;Framedragger;"lose weeks of work" is insane :( i'm sorry to hear that. *this* would not expose you to that scenario. but one would have to pin down still-possible data loss scenarios, if any.
1593304;1483108673;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu -- switched hosts, i -- slowly, painfully, rewrote the thing...
1593305;1483108700;asciilifeform;Framedragger: well it doesn't lose work nao.
1593306;1483108722;asciilifeform;but could again if i gave it a multi-GB writecache
1593307;1483108799;Framedragger;here's what i'm thinking: disable synchronous_commit , but set 'checkpoints' so that results are flushed to db every $n inserts/updates. i can see however how you may barf from such an idea, "it's either reliable, or isn't".
1593308;1483108813;Framedragger;but this way you would constrain any losses to particular known amounts.
1593309;1483108828;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's a straight (and spam-encrusted) translation of an english article that was posted here ('against hardforks' iirc) a while back.
1593310;1483108857;asciilifeform;Framedragger: no losses plox.
1593311;1483108861;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593121 << dude the problems jus' keep on coming. wtf is this, we have hashes, why THE FUCK would we care about directory and holy shit who came up with the idea of using path as hash
1593312;1483108861;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 05:22 phf: i think it treats one of the names as canonical
1593313;1483108888;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, i only said they exist, i didn't say their brains work.
1593314;1483108915;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tbh i had a 'what the hell is all this' reaction to reading ben_vulpes and phf vtron problemz
1593315;1483108936;mircea_popescu;it's not even baseless, which is the saddest part.
1593316;1483108946;asciilifeform;they must've moved some king-sized cockroach sofa.
1593317;1483108950;mircea_popescu;his problems i mean
1593318;1483108973;Framedragger;"Note that open_sync writing is buggy on some platforms (such as Linux),  and you should (as always) do plenty of tests under a heavy write load  to make sure that you haven't made your system less stable with this  change.  Reliable Writes contains more information on this topic. " oh god. more inserts/sec but zero data loss => probably can't help you much. documentation doesn't encourage me :/
1593319;1483108994;mircea_popescu;sigh
1593320;1483109024;mircea_popescu;Framedragger data loss is catastrophic to a degree that can't be described, as far as phuyctor goes. if you have to also check, your workload goes up 3x at least.
1593321;1483109108;asciilifeform;^^
1593322;1483109118;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: consider a scenario in which you knew how much data you could lose ("up to 100 last rows"), and you could check if you lost any (last row id == last-id-processed.txt ? false : true). that being said, this way things become more wibbly-wobbly, so probably fuck that. :(
1593323;1483109125;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593130 << holy crap.
1593324;1483109125;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 05:40 phf: so if you were to produce a patch with a/old-veh.lisp and b/veh.lisp. existing vtrons will happily press it, though it's a total clusterfuck
1593325;1483109178;asciilifeform;gnupatch, as i warned long ago, MUST die.
1593326;1483109184;mircea_popescu;Framedragger see here's what graybeard means : i see that statement, and I KNOW there's a footnote somewhere you don't know about / bother to mention which says "except when abendstar in conjunction with fuckyoustar when it's 105th to 1095th column".
1593327;1483109202;mircea_popescu;because it is not computer-possible to have what you describe without what i describe.
1593328;1483109247;mircea_popescu;consider the simple case of "check values, actuate machinery" in article linked here a few months ago. it is quite fundamentally informative.
1593329;1483109249;Framedragger;right. either it's completely-reliable, or NP-complete complex dragons in a cave
1593330;1483109268;mircea_popescu;well not exactly like that, but i guess that may work for a heuristic early on.
1593331;1483109285;mircea_popescu;the issue is the magic numbers. you said "100". why did you say "100" and how did you [think you] knew ?
1593332;1483109293;asciilifeform;moreover, it's either ~completely-readable~ or 'dragons in a cave'.
1593333;1483109305;mircea_popescu;that's another, but just as important, issue.
1593334;1483109334;asciilifeform;i'm not convinced that they are separable.
1593335;1483109374;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: because you could tell postgres to flush rows (forcing all caching layers) every 100 rows, not every 1 row as currently specified
1593336;1483109397;asciilifeform;Framedragger: may as well run whole thing off a ramdisk then
1593337;1483109398;mircea_popescu;what you do is not supposed to be predicated on what you can do at any point in your existence.
1593338;1483109400;Framedragger;(i'm not saying 100 is not barf-magical.)
1593339;1483109420;Framedragger;i suspect then that the inserts/sec slowness is due to postgres currently making really damn sure that *all* layers of cache are forced. this "full forcing of cache for every row" is what makes things slower; but it's also the only really-super-reliable approach for the case at hand (remote box).
1593340;1483109452;asciilifeform;the thing is a 1,001-layer shit sandwich
1593341;1483109464;mircea_popescu;Framedragger think for a second : modulus gets added, it's in cache, other modulus gets added, they don't get checked against each other because one was in cache, now we have two unpopped poppables in db.
1593342;1483109472;mircea_popescu;does this entirely subvert what phuctor is ?
1593343;1483109477;jurov;just a side note - if using filesystem, for ACID guarantee you'd need to flush caches, too
1593344;1483109482;mircea_popescu;yes.
1593345;1483109499;mircea_popescu;wich is why fs sql is contemplated for bitcoin, not really for phuctor's woes.
1593346;1483109507;asciilifeform;jurov: fs does have the journal
1593347;1483109519;Framedragger;brb
1593348;1483109539;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform actually a portion on a ramdisk may even be judicious.
1593349;1483109546;mircea_popescu;i take it you were considering this for next rewrite
1593350;1483109562;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: linux by default uses all spare ram as disk readcache
1593351;1483109567;jurov;asciilifeform: journal is not some magic allowing you to have 100k transactions.second without possibility of data loss
1593352;1483109592;asciilifeform;writecache, on other hand, is a major Do Not Want here, for reasons described above
1593353;1483109592;mircea_popescu;yeah it has to catch on eventually.
1593354;1483109630;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ah, i didn't realise you were happy with linux readcache.
1593355;1483109640;asciilifeform;jurov: there is always 'possibility of data loss', machine could be stolen (as it once was!) or burn down
1593356;1483109658;asciilifeform;problem is ~silent~ data loss.
1593357;1483109694;asciilifeform;when you do not know that you oughta restore from backup
1593358;1483109824;asciilifeform;the one obvious optimization i was considering was to avoid all dupe checks on key submit and simply deduplicate prior to each bernsteining. but this has serious cost in ui consistency, no more could submitters expect to see a result that is guaranteed to make sense after they submit.
1593359;1483109979;mircea_popescu;on the other hand submitter support is not mandated, they fail to produce a significant portion of the input.
1593360;1483110001;mircea_popescu;for that matter they fail to change their own diapers, either, end up having Framedragger write code for them etc.
1593361;1483110037;asciilifeform;there is 1 serious reason why gotta check for existing key/fp:
1593362;1483110050;mircea_popescu;well ddos.
1593363;1483110055;asciilifeform;because it is what 'phuctor as keyserver' stands on, also
1593364;1483110074;asciilifeform;most of the time i paste in a key from somewhere, there it is, from april.
1593365;1483110080;mircea_popescu;yeh.
1593366;1483110090;mircea_popescu;incidentally, i would say deedbot also counts as tmsr keyserver now.
1593367;1483110093;asciilifeform;it's a total replacement (if slow) for sks.
1593368;1483110115;asciilifeform;deedbot key getter dun work in heathens, does it..?
1593369;1483110117;mircea_popescu;sks was not that fast. or that complete.
1593370;1483110140;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, i'm not surfe i want it to work on heathens what.
1593371;1483110190;asciilifeform;well here's one typical scenario, i find a pgp-signed historic patch (e.g., linus) and want to see what vintage key etc
1593372;1483110214;mircea_popescu;sure. i'm not saying it must be standardized. just, there.
1593373;1483110217;asciilifeform;'was this linus-key or linus-flipolade key'
1593374;1483110238;mircea_popescu;note that as time rains on, this sort of query becomes less and less interesting
1593375;1483110243;asciilifeform;it will.
1593376;1483110253;mircea_popescu;"was gcc 5.x rms approved or not ?" "dude... who cares. it fails to build eulora."
1593377;1483110316;asciilifeform;btw while we're on this subj, does eulora eschew cpp11?
1593378;1483110385;asciilifeform;because cpp11 is how folx typically end up reluctantly grunting in the stake of gcc5
1593379;1483110482;mircea_popescu;diana_coman ^
1593380;1483110500;mircea_popescu;but yes, afaik it does.
1593381;1483110539;asciilifeform;brings own set of problems. it is where monstrous thigs such as 'boost' came from - lack of cpp11
1593382;1483110552;mircea_popescu;it dun has boost either.
1593383;1483110557;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it does, yes
1593384;1483110566;diana_coman;and omfg no boost, no
1593385;1483110612;diana_coman;ideally it will eschew cpp alltogether but so far not ideal
1593386;1483110630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman : so you folx wrote own 'boost'-like horror? fwiw most games firms did, in the golden olden days. my brother's co, for instance, did.
1593387;1483110637;mircea_popescu;nope.
1593388;1483110638;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no
1593389;1483110655;asciilifeform;so what do the data structures look like ?
1593390;1483110672;*;mircea_popescu views with mind's eye diana_coman 's beard growing inches/second in the minds of alf 
1593391;1483110695;asciilifeform;how about iterators? they are all explicit? million temp vars?
1593392;1483110752;asciilifeform;i'ma have to gather the courage and read this thing with own eyes, at some point.
1593393;1483110764;diana_coman;asciilifeform, atm we are still slowly, slowly extricating ourselves from the swamps of ps code
1593394;1483110770;jurov;it does not use much c++stdlib, but the crystalspace reimplementation of
1593395;1483110771;asciilifeform;ps?
1593396;1483110777;asciilifeform;postscript?!
1593397;1483110778;mircea_popescu;the server code's not published, and the client code is mostly legacy.
1593398;1483110784;diana_coman;planeshift asciilifeform , a swamp not worth gettting stuck into
1593399;1483110790;mircea_popescu;planeshift.
1593400;1483110798;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: presently i have nfi what part is published, or where
1593401;1483110819;asciilifeform;ah hm. i have nfi what is 'planeshift'. 3dengine?
1593402;1483110840;diana_coman;planeshift is an open source mess that was used to jumpstart eulora basically
1593403;1483110855;jurov;planeshift is opensource game, crystalspace is the engine
1593404;1483110876;asciilifeform;aah
1593405;1483110898;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform planeshift is a mmorpg that the many-eyes beast took 10 years to make. it uses cs which is a sort of game engine, which is built on cal3d which is a gfx lib.
1593406;1483110922;mircea_popescu;the quality of code is uneven in the usual foss sense ; its main virtue is that being old, it is mostly not new.
1593407;1483110922;diana_coman;and it manages to have some half million lines of code doing the job of maximum 100k by the looks of it
1593408;1483110932;mircea_popescu;(they did decide to move over to unity last year, then they abandoned the plan._
1593409;1483110935;asciilifeform;and looks like jurov answered my q earlier. eulora folx are using crystalspace's adhoc boostron.
1593410;1483110949;diana_coman;asciilifeform, planeshift does that, yes
1593411;1483110950;jurov;asciilifeform: https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/C11Status btw, they claim c++11 is fully done in gcc 4.9 (as is my experience) . maybe you meant c++14 ?
1593412;1483110955;asciilifeform;in the old days, every major cpp project had one
1593413;1483110956;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the client.
1593414;1483110961;mircea_popescu;there's two parts to this mess.
1593415;1483110995;asciilifeform;jurov: i am guilty of referring to anything that wasn't in my childhood borland3.1 as cpp11
1593416;1483111003;jurov;lol
1593417;1483111006;mircea_popescu;heh
1593418;1483111075;asciilifeform;jurov: notice how some of the more appealing 11isms (e.g., bounds checking) dun work
1593419;1483111081;asciilifeform;'library issue'
1593420;1483111112;mircea_popescu;that's ok, the planeshift implementation leaks at pretty much every other rivet
1593421;1483111169;asciilifeform;btw , the unusability of naked cpp was also why we got horrors like 'qt'
1593422;1483111189;asciilifeform;(which is only half gui toolkit, it is also datastructure lib)
1593423;1483111205;*;asciilifeform brb
1593424;1483111230;diana_coman;basically crystalspace has its own "boost" implementation yes, leaking as expected and on top of that planeshift uses it all over the place quite without any rhyme or reason, adding further to the swamp;
1593425;1483111354;diana_coman;fwiw I can confirm that current code compiles perfectly fine on gcc 4.4 in any case
1593426;1483111373;mod6;mornin'
1593427;1483111379;diana_coman;morning mod6
1593428;1483111388;mod6;how ya been!
1593429;1483111447;diana_coman;heh, not bad
1593430;1483111468;mod6;good deal
1593431;1483111485;diana_coman;got to some snow, sledged downhill, even bruised a knee , got back to peaceful coding now , lol
1593432;1483111513;diana_coman;how's that eulora-box coming in 2017 mod6 ? :D
1593433;1483111543;mod6;nice! i haven't done any sledding yet.  gotta do that one of these times.
1593434;1483111554;mod6;oh, hey, actually.  so I've got a box.
1593435;1483111586;mod6;i had obsd on it like for nearly all of '16... but wasn't doing anything with it.  so i threw linux on there.
1593436;1483111586;jurov;For the uninitiated, there's already c++17 underway. With folks gearing up to c++23, when We Will Finally Reach Parity With Haskell(noshit).
1593437;1483111611;mod6;when I get a free moment, i'll throw the latest eulora on there.  can be my mining box. :]
1593438;1483111630;diana_coman;sounds good mod6 :)
1593439;1483111656;diana_coman;jurov, make cpp haskell again I gather?
1593440;1483111673;mod6;heh
1593441;1483111678;jurov;yay
1593442;1483111731;mircea_popescu;jurov what is parity with haskell even ?!
1593443;1483111864;jurov;i was just paraphrasing, don't remember the exact word
1593444;1483111890;diana_coman;asciilifeform, to round off: atm eulora code is basically c99 (even that rather reluctantly when we moved over to 64bit)
1593445;1483112220;asciilifeform;jurov: догоним и перегоним ! (tm) (r) (hruschev)
1593446;1483112266;asciilifeform;but yes, cpp standardization is beginning to resemble that of PL/I
1593447;1483112291;*;asciilifeform has a relative who, until recently retiring, programmed in PL/I ! i shit thee not
1593448;1483112373;asciilifeform;jurov: lulzily, searching for 'c++17' i get... airplanes
1593449;1483112383;asciilifeform;'boeing c-17'
1593450;1483112694;mircea_popescu;oh also, friendly reminder today's last day of eulora hackathon. closes in ~11 hours.
1593451;1483112760;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593170 << he's not even kidding, i'm going to start banning.
1593452;1483112760;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 06:58 ben_vulpes: felipelalli, vexare, wyrdmantis, Sinclair6, luke-jr please fix your bouncers
1593453;1483112864;mircea_popescu;oh hey, check it out, irc isn't that important. smart move, barely tolerated fraudster.
1593454;1483113051;mircea_popescu;and for the record : the dood colluded with sonny vleisides / the rest of the 'ndrangheta running "bfl" scam (which, obviously, the usg hasn't ever prosecuted, in spite of loud violation of, eg, parole termas, because hey, partners in crime) to falsely claim that he received a miner delivery so as to scam bitbet into misresolving a bet, on which they had ~500 btc.
1593455;1483113091;mircea_popescu;if he weren't a total fucking retard on top of being a consumate conman, he'd actually have 30k to buy an isp now.
1593456;1483113983;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593220 << depending on your setup about 40 to 60 days in the wild, about half with ben_vulpes recommended method.
1593457;1483113983;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 09:13 davout: out of curiosity, how long did it take trb node operators to fully sync?
1593458;1483114044;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593228 << yes, periodically since 2014.
1593459;1483114044;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 12:28 davout: was there a discussion of the use case where one wishes to create, and sign transactions from an arbitrary set of unspent inputs?
1593460;1483114136;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593252 << these people. if phuyctor is not THE usecase then wtf is. wwwrot ffs.
1593461;1483114136;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 14:20 asciilifeform: i even spoke with career dbists, answer was 'your application is monstrous abuse and you need a cluster'
1593462;1483114303;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593286 << actually workmem should be 256mb especially as you can afford it so totally, go for it.
1593463;1483114303;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 14:30 asciilifeform: i'ma try it soon.
1593464;1483114350;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593288 << pretty sure phuctor is 1 user that recycles db connections.
1593465;1483114350;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 14:32 Framedragger: (do note, 'work_mem' is per user / per request. so may be easier to DoS. thought i should mention this for completeness)
1593466;1483114420;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593456 << iirc it took me ~3 days to sync via direct eatblock
1593467;1483114420;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 16:06 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593220 << depending on your setup about 40 to 60 days in the wild, about half with ben_vulpes recommended method.
1593468;1483114426;asciilifeform;or hm, nm, 1 night
1593469;1483114444;mircea_popescu;direct eat block is fast yes.
1593470;1483114449;mircea_popescu;but you have to have the food.
1593471;1483114493;mircea_popescu;incidentally asciilifeform since we're now doing open source db optimization  shared_buffers is probably a larger concern. what is it ? defaults to 125mb but i'd readily see it 1-4gb in your case.
1593472;1483114494;asciilifeform;the fastest sync method, supposing one has access to a synced node, but also supposing that it won't do to simply copy the blocks (and it won't, you want to verify) is an eater-shitter system
1593473;1483114520;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: probably. i'ma run with new knob settings as soon as it is safe to reset the db.
1593474;1483114530;asciilifeform;but i do not expect miracle.
1593475;1483114533;mircea_popescu;alrighty then let's make a full plan here.
1593476;1483114574;mircea_popescu;1) shared_buffers is to be per spec "25% of available ram" ; but it does diminish returns in the gb. you probably have it as 128mb, make it 2gb say.
1593477;1483114576;asciilifeform;(because apparently 'thousands of queries / sec is abuse, get a cluster' is the 'state of the art')
1593478;1483114588;mircea_popescu;2) huge_pages should probably be on.
1593479;1483114610;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you use a lot of temp tables ?
1593480;1483114612;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd first like to know what this'll do to integrity-on-mains-failure
1593481;1483114616;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 0 temp tables
1593482;1483114619;asciilifeform;0 anything fancy.
1593483;1483114648;mircea_popescu;and work_mem should prolly be larger than 4mb, but hard to guess how large without a profile, and this is a major resource consumption ticket, so you actually want to do some maffs.
1593484;1483114658;asciilifeform;0 joins. 0 anythings. just plain old queries and inserts.
1593485;1483114699;mircea_popescu;yes but what it uses it for is sorts, select by index may use it if the index is composite.
1593486;1483114724;asciilifeform;ah
1593487;1483114741;mircea_popescu;do you actually just recycle one connection or do you keep making connections ?
1593488;1483114749;asciilifeform;makes connections.
1593489;1483114756;mircea_popescu;ah then not nearly as important.
1593490;1483114835;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform all these are memory usage ops, what they do is establish when it should go on disk. they do not significantly affect cord-yank robustness. there are other specs you can make for the background writer for instance that do.
1593491;1483114864;mircea_popescu;eg bgwriter_delay you may want to be set low for this reason.
1593492;1483114874;mircea_popescu;it's 200ms by default.
1593493;1483114906;asciilifeform;the db absolutely has to be in a consistent state at all times, or 0 phuctoring takes place.
1593494;1483114913;asciilifeform;(this scenario actually played out once.)
1593495;1483114918;mircea_popescu;you can also set bgwriter_lru_maxpages to 0 and disable background writing altogether
1593496;1483114940;asciilifeform;(and, painfully, i had to find the offending garbage by hand!)
1593497;1483114979;asciilifeform;also did i mention that the entire db get shat out every time we bernstein ?
1593498;1483115015;asciilifeform;(the moduli have to turn into an array of bignum*)
1593499;1483115032;asciilifeform;this is easily 10% of the load on the db
1593500;1483115052;trinque;might be faster to do in the db
1593501;1483115056;asciilifeform;oh and then, factors are found, largely the same set every time (how bernsteinization works) and each one is queried to the db
1593502;1483115066;trinque;I am sadly, quite good at SQL if you want the thing translated
1593503;1483115072;asciilifeform;trinque: i need random-access in O(1) to them for bernsteining
1593504;1483115082;asciilifeform;so no, they can't 'live in db' while it happens
1593505;1483115085;trinque;ok
1593506;1483115087;asciilifeform;have to live in MY data structure, in ram.
1593507;1483115101;asciilifeform;where i have O(1) access to them.
1593508;1483115126;asciilifeform;the whole thing working at all is predicated on these seemingly 'abusive' design choices
1593509;1483115139;asciilifeform;and postgres is ~the~ albatross.
1593510;1483115254;phf;so you basically snapshot your entire dataset back into the database at certain times, and snapshot is an equivalent of set merge?
1593511;1483115282;asciilifeform;phf: nope. the only thing that happens to db as a result of bernsteinization is N queries 'do we already know this factor'
1593512;1483115292;asciilifeform;if answer is 'no', it is inserted in 'factors' table.
1593513;1483115323;asciilifeform;this, by all rights, ought to be a batch query. and probably will be in next version.
1593514;1483115327;mircea_popescu;trinque 's idea, bernstein as prepared queries, may be a gain.
1593515;1483115327;mircea_popescu;though i am unaware anyone ever implemented this ; because, of coruse, i am unaware anyone used the guy's algo for any other purpose than gawking.
1593516;1483115328;mircea_popescu;but he might be interested to hear about it.
1593517;1483115341;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a screaming nope
1593518;1483115356;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: algo ~demands~ O(1) random access to the bignums.
1593519;1483115360;asciilifeform;the individual bignums.
1593520;1483115363;mircea_popescu;so ?
1593521;1483115384;asciilifeform;so holy shit is this not screamingly obvious
1593522;1483115389;mircea_popescu;you implement bernstein IN the db. it is actually a programming language.
1593523;1483115392;asciilifeform;i need ~less~ access to db, not moar.
1593524;1483115393;phf;asciilifeform: oh so you do insert to a set, every time there's a result, and you query for the whole set before you start a cycle of process?
1593525;1483115400;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sql doesn't have a bignumatron
1593526;1483115401;trinque;asciilifeform: a temp table is in RAM
1593527;1483115404;asciilifeform;much less an optimized one
1593528;1483115416;trinque;but I am not arguing for something here; you'd know what you want
1593529;1483115436;asciilifeform;phf: bernstein's algo operates on ~all known moduli simultaneously~
1593530;1483115439;asciilifeform;there is no way around this.
1593531;1483115443;asciilifeform;by definition, that's what it does.
1593532;1483115473;asciilifeform;it is, by lightyears, the best known algo for batch gcd, also.
1593533;1483115476;mircea_popescu;and you do it as prepared queries, which get precompiled to a degree
1593534;1483115496;phf;asciilifeform: i'm just trying to establish the dataflow here, for my own curiosity
1593535;1483115498;asciilifeform;the querying of 'do-we-have-this-factor' is maybe 1% of the load.
1593536;1483115514;asciilifeform;so it has not been a priority, because batching will tremendously complicate the moving parts.
1593537;1483115524;mircea_popescu;not a matter of access
1593538;1483115575;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593516 << recall, i wrote to bernstein himself.
1593539;1483115575;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 16:28 mircea_popescu: but he might be interested to hear about it.
1593540;1483115577;asciilifeform;0 answer.
1593541;1483115604;asciilifeform;and at this point it is imho unlikely that he has not heard of phuctor.
1593542;1483115614;asciilifeform;so that leaves 1 plausible explanation.
1593543;1483115619;mircea_popescu;you're not addressing the idea. currently you use a pile of c code you labeled for purely personal reasons "a db" to store some data for you, and another pile, you labeled phuctor, to bernstein and do other things on the db-stored data. because the interface is the bottleneck, it then becomes clear you must merge this. one way is to merge by lifting the db code and putting it into phuctor, making it you know, its own db like
1593544;1483115619;mircea_popescu;bitcoin wants its own fs. ANOTHER way, is to use the means the db already offers for this.
1593545;1483115662;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you think trb is a hard nut to crack, picture reading, grasping postgres.
1593546;1483115662;mircea_popescu;which yes takes some work, but not quite as much as the other variant.
1593547;1483115673;asciilifeform;i for one do not expect to live long enough to make a serious attempt at such a thing.
1593548;1483115679;mircea_popescu;yes but it has this convenient hole through which you can go in, which is - implement bernstein IN sql.
1593549;1483115727;asciilifeform;a sql or similar db system with built-in bignumatron could be useful and interesting. but no such thing exists. nor would it solve the actual bottleneck in phuctor if it were to be discovered tonight.
1593550;1483115728;mircea_popescu;rather than in c.
1593551;1483115748;asciilifeform;because the actual bottleneck is '1000s of queries AND inserts / second AND guaranteed realtime consistent'
1593552;1483115753;mircea_popescu;it has ~some~ ability to precompile your queries, which is somewhat like linking object code.
1593553;1483115753;asciilifeform;and not the bernsteining.
1593554;1483115806;asciilifeform;understand, the only reason why the thing works at all, is that this one small part of it, the bernsteinization, can be made ~entirely~ independent from the db locking idiocy
1593555;1483115821;asciilifeform;if it somehow had to happen inside postgres, it would not bypass the lock.
1593556;1483115851;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is seeing it through the naive vertically integrating rockefeller eyes, 'power plant expensive? let's put it right in my mansion'
1593557;1483115860;asciilifeform;this does not always help.
1593558;1483115869;phf;well, a more practical approach would be to adapt phuctor c part to a postgresql loadable module interface. in which case you he will eliminate the cross-boundary overhead (serialize/deserialize over the "wire").
1593559;1483115885;asciilifeform;phf: what part of 'this isn't the bottleneck' was unclear
1593560;1483115900;phf;asciilifeform: did you understand what i said?
1593561;1483115906;asciilifeform;i think so?
1593562;1483115959;mircea_popescu;well, it was a thought.
1593563;1483115959;phf;what i'm saying is that a significant fraction of "1000s of queries AND ..." is the cross-boundary. you compile queries on c side, you send them to psql, it then parses, prepares results, serializes, sends it to c side, c side has to now parse all over again
1593564;1483116000;asciilifeform;phf: actually the wwwtronic piece of phuctor is in python and does the precompiled queries thing
1593565;1483116005;asciilifeform;that that's probably not it.
1593566;1483116022;asciilifeform;believe or not, i actually put some work into this thing
1593567;1483116042;asciilifeform;the current iteration is, iirc, the third from-the-ground rewrite.
1593568;1483116049;asciilifeform;(or second, depending how to count)
1593569;1483116050;mircea_popescu;pretty surreal.
1593570;1483116071;phf;precompiled queries are a fraction of cross-boundary issue
1593571;1483116120;phf;i'm not even arguing with you, i'm saying that the ~full extent~ of what "move it to psql" is going to do is ~eliminate cross-boundary issue~ that is all. so it'll shave some significant overhead, but it's not a silver bullet.
1593572;1483116141;asciilifeform;when i profiled it, 99% of the time is spent in 'do we have this key hash? no? insert; do we have these fp's? no? insert...'
1593573;1483116182;asciilifeform;phf: understand also, postgres can't store bignums as such, it stores strings
1593574;1483116195;mircea_popescu;so a lot of hash search.
1593575;1483116198;asciilifeform;these end up parsed into operable bignums every shot. but, surprisingly, this never takes > 3 minutes !
1593576;1483116200;asciilifeform;on entire set.
1593577;1483116200;phf;asciilifeform: right, i was going to get to that :}
1593578;1483116240;mats;fbi evidence of ru hacking 10/10 lulz as expected
1593579;1483116251;asciilifeform;(in fact, dumping out the entire db, and properly bignumizing, takes about 3min total for the current db.)
1593580;1483116267;asciilifeform;mats: i especially loved the 1 single av signature offered
1593581;1483116278;asciilifeform;(which was for some 'script kid' php kit)
1593582;1483116301;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if that's where it spends most time then a) http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593462 is very likely to help and b) preparing your whole query as ONE single sorted item will help also.
1593583;1483116301;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 16:11 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593286 << actually workmem should be 256mb especially as you can afford it so totally, go for it.
1593584;1483116336;mircea_popescu;i gather you already do b. is it index-sorted ?
1593585;1483116351;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually i do not. because it will require 100x more complex mechanism.
1593586;1483116364;asciilifeform;which is to say, rewrite of WHOLE thing. we had a thread.
1593587;1483116368;mircea_popescu;uh. then why do you put the keys in in batches if you're not... putting them in in batches ?
1593588;1483116377;asciilifeform;they get thrown into same hole as if human submits.
1593589;1483116392;asciilifeform;that way there is exactly one procedural path for key submission, and no duplicate logic.
1593590;1483116393;mircea_popescu;would you stop with these bizarro deflections, they neither impress nor persuade, but they do give you an ugly image.
1593591;1483116410;asciilifeform;i dun give half a shit about 'image'. laying out the fact of why the thing is as it is.
1593592;1483116415;mircea_popescu;yes, well, that's then the problem. they should go in as a single query the size of the batch, with the items sorted within it
1593593;1483116470;mircea_popescu;this is a piddly excuse, "no duplicate logic", case of luser with wwwform and case of 100k keys in batch form are different enough to warrant duplicate logic. that's why computers even exist, to account for such level of difference in code.
1593594;1483116477;mircea_popescu;otherwise we'd just use hardware everywhere.
1593595;1483116481;asciilifeform;it is the most obvious unmassaged piece , aha. the correct algo is , imho, to have separate 'nursery' (gcism term of art) table for the batch submits.
1593596;1483116497;mircea_popescu;possibru.
1593597;1483116507;asciilifeform;but what this adds up to is to have ~two~ quite separate phuctors. we wouldn't query the nursery, for instance, when someone keys in a url with a hash
1593598;1483116511;asciilifeform;only the 'adult' db
1593599;1483116516;asciilifeform;otherwise we get same speed as now.
1593600;1483116518;mircea_popescu;no, have one phuctor with one db and two intakes.
1593601;1483116526;mircea_popescu;and yes we would query.
1593602;1483116530;asciilifeform;well 1 db, 2 sets of key/fp/factor tables.
1593603;1483116531;phf;a sort of impolite question, but is there's an index on hash column?
1593604;1483116549;asciilifeform;and no, you can't query the nursery every time somebody loads a url, or you get SAME performance as now, omfg
1593605;1483116555;Framedragger;(and follow-up, does explain analyze show the use of that index)
1593606;1483116558;asciilifeform;phf: there is
1593607;1483116671;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: but yes, for next version (presently only exists in my notebook) there is a nursery and it gets merged into main table at night. but this makes for considerably more complex system, where there are two very distinct types of submission, 'realtime' and 'scripted' , and they get treated quite differently.
1593608;1483116695;asciilifeform;(and bernsteinization requires access to ~all~ moduli, as i think is obvious, and not simply 'most recent ones')
1593609;1483116745;phf;is it a hash index? it has the least overhead (it isn't logged amongs other things, so you have to rebuild it on crash, but conversly it's kept in memory and only supports = operation) indexes will make your queries more cheap, but writes more expensive, so you want to make sure it's the cheapest possible
1593610;1483116777;asciilifeform;phf: what means 'rebuild it on a crash'
1593611;1483116784;asciilifeform;this has to be done programmatically ?
1593612;1483116827;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the other obvious thing would be to dispense with 'real time submission' entirely, and when someone dumps in a key, it goes into next batch. but we discussed this earlier in this thread, it would mean that the thing cannot be used as sks-like tool.
1593613;1483116834;Framedragger;docs say would need to get rebuilt only if there were any unwritten changes. which there shouldn't be as asciilifeform is not using write cache
1593614;1483116835;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0CCA49DE4C9967BFAE78ACF9D1AD438154B75B9700A055CA3DAC80F1714A2AA0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Connie Main <cma...om>; ' (host-95.215.85.243.ongnet.ru. Unknown)
1593615;1483116835;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/289FCBF68419984FD484C7EF7823AB7C114193224DD2733C7A60A20BC118F5A6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' <spaf@mac.com>;  <spa...du>; Gene Spafford <gene@spaf.us>; Gene Spafford <spaf@acm.org>; Gene Spafford <spaf@mac.com>; Gene Spafford <spa...du>; Gene Spafford <spa...rg>; Eugene H. Spafford <spaf@mac.com>; Eugene H. Spafford <spa...iz>; Gene Spafford <SPA...du>; Gene Spafford <spa...
1593616;1483116835;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A07FCCF0D46AC8B25EB8F0982629537817E0CEA47BCC6C8B800A06F4F4647160 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Todd A. Outten <out...om>; ' (host-95.215.85.243.ongnet.ru. Unknown)
1593617;1483116835;*;mircea_popescu would not be particularly surprised if served with 100mb of query as per above postres wouldn't just fall over.
1593618;1483116844;asciilifeform;aaaaah lel
1593619;1483116872;asciilifeform;holy shit was that a ... user submission?!
1593620;1483116874;phf;asciilifeform: no, it's a command that you run, like REINDEX index_of_things; it simply queries what's already in DB and warms up the cash
1593621;1483116886;asciilifeform;looks like flipolade
1593622;1483116995;asciilifeform;(won't import in gpg, but ~will~ in js www-based shitpgptrons)
1593623;1483117088;asciilifeform;http://usagl.com << from above, lulzy, old-school voice telecom co.
1593624;1483117094;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593602 << no. this is nonsense, and not what was at any point either suggested or discussed.
1593625;1483117094;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 16:48 asciilifeform: well 1 db, 2 sets of key/fp/factor tables.
1593626;1483117111;mircea_popescu;you are getting to where it is in principle not worth anyone's time to talk with you, because your response is random nonsequitur.
1593627;1483117136;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: suggest algo, i'm all ears.
1593628;1483117166;mircea_popescu;if this is the path you must walk to go from solipsist-alf to socially-integrated-alf i can see it, but hurry it up already it's irritating.
1593629;1483117254;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu might be social-integrated-genius but often recommends algo that adds up to escherian skyscraper. and so results in headache thread.
1593630;1483117375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2398E0817D454688D06524E1B99CCE125A5E4D5E4DB5FBEFBE1BBE65BDA99AB4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1730...1787 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '150.187.4.208 (ssh-rsa key from 150.187.4.208 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown VE A)
1593631;1483117375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AC623C503B5F6FF091E7B5819FAD4EE293D03B779770C1959FD3C159D6653FB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1036...2769 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.28.20 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.28.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE HE)
1593632;1483117417;mircea_popescu;so : if loading the whole batches of keys through the user-wwwform process is what 99% of the machine time goes to, then yes, put the batches into a single, sorted query, make the workmem should be 256mb or 2gb or w/e it is you actually need to cover your query (yes this can be calculated, but can also be guessed from a few tries) and then run bernstein after every such query, on the db not on "nursery" (which yes, it's a ter
1593633;1483117417;mircea_popescu;m of art in whatever, am i not impressed!)
1593634;1483117558;asciilifeform;how to make the www piece respond at all while this runs ?
1593635;1483117601;asciilifeform;(and yes, it is the obviously correct way to process thous. of keyz, no question)
1593636;1483117652;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: point of 'nursery' was to do the 'do we have this fp? how about this? ...' a few thou. at a time, is all.
1593637;1483117666;asciilifeform;if there is some other way of doing it, i'm all ears
1593638;1483117783;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform as to "how to make www respond", you use the method we were discussing last time, whereby www is a cached image and if out of date tough for viewer ; as to nursery "do we have this ? how about this?" you really want the db to do that for you, it's ~the only thing it;s good for.
1593639;1483117789;asciilifeform;phf, mircea_popescu , et al : one thing that would immediately make a very palpable difference in speed is if there were a permanent way to order postgres to perform all reads immediately, disregarding all locks.
1593640;1483117806;mircea_popescu;i dunno if it supports dirty reads.
1593641;1483117822;mircea_popescu;mysql doesn't lock reads on write locks ; i expect any rmdbs should be capable via config.
1593642;1483117826;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is currently a cached image, i implemented it. the cached snapshots however last for a limited time (iirc i have it set to half hr per url)
1593643;1483117850;asciilifeform;mysql is a shitsandwich, and i will not touch it (it fucking CRASHES)
1593644;1483117852;mircea_popescu;you don't in general want the frontend to be able to expire your cache, let the backend do it whenever it feels like it.
1593645;1483117866;asciilifeform;for all of the cruel things i have said about postgres : it crashed 0 times.
1593646;1483117867;mircea_popescu;i wasn't proposing mysql in any sense.
1593647;1483117873;asciilifeform;aah ok
1593648;1483117891;mircea_popescu;but - dirty reads should be possible on any db system
1593649;1483117911;asciilifeform;if someone knows , from memory, the relevant knob: please write in.
1593650;1483117922;phf;pretty sure not on postgresql, they are strict about their acid
1593651;1483117928;mircea_popescu;uh.
1593652;1483117944;asciilifeform;yeah when i put on my shit diving suit and went down into the docs, i found none.
1593653;1483117961;asciilifeform;(doesn't prove that it is absent)
1593654;1483117969;mircea_popescu;that's pretty sad.
1593655;1483117991;trinque;asciilifeform: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/transaction-iso.html
1593656;1483118026;asciilifeform;trinque: that looks potentially useful, i'ma look at it in detail when i come back from meat .
1593657;1483118030;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat
1593658;1483118037;mircea_popescu;enjoy
1593659;1483118077;phf;typically you handle it by not making your query lock the entire table, using a where clause of some sort. like if you're inserting  things in batches, you can use a batch counter, and you query against max last known batch counter or less (or a variation of)
1593660;1483118164;mircea_popescu;kinda halfway solution innit
1593661;1483118167;jurov;this is decided by transaction isolation level trinque posted. by default, table gets locked only if you explicitly "select for update"
1593662;1483118184;mircea_popescu;it really should be up to operator wtf, if i want to read dirty let me read dirty what sort of decision is this for designer to make.
1593663;1483118379;phf;jurov: well, it's not clear where "disregard all locks" comes from in the original request. if the actual operations are as asciilifeform describes, i.e. sporadic inserts, and sporadic selects, then there will be no locks. my point is that there's no "disregard all locks" in postgresql, you solve it by knowing what lock you're hitting, and then designing your query to sidestep the lock
1593664;1483118406;mircea_popescu;this makes sense to someone ?
1593665;1483118758;jurov;Flly lockless dirty read is likely a security hazard (due to race conditions, you may end up reading memory you ough not to)
1593666;1483118800;jurov;So, you have to live with locks and know them
1593667;1483118811;phf;mircea_popescu: sop outside of mysql world. dirty read is considered a liability, so whole point of db systems design is to ensure that you don't hit locks when you shouldn't.
1593668;1483118858;mircea_popescu;does either of you see how this is the db writer outsourcing his incompetence on the user ?
1593669;1483118869;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593458 <<< vaguely rings a bell, does anyone have some pointers at hand so i can go read/re-read?
1593670;1483118869;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 16:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593228 << yes, periodically since 2014.
1593671;1483118885;mircea_popescu;nevermind "mysql world" and "security" claptrap. the point of fact is you want me to cut off my hand so my helmet will fit.
1593672;1483118891;jurov;This is not incompetence, but unsolved problem in CS.
1593673;1483118897;mircea_popescu;oh i see.
1593674;1483118911;phf;mircea_popescu: yes, ~having to deal with locks~ happens past the limit of db designer's competence
1593675;1483118963;mircea_popescu;exactly how the statements {"do not allow anyone else to write here until i say" ; "let anyone read anything at any time"} amount to an "unsolved problem in cs" ? and wtf cs is this we speak of, sounds more like chewinggum-science.
1593676;1483118980;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593472 <<< trb -> trb only possibru, or could prb -> trb also work?
1593677;1483118980;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 16:14 asciilifeform: the fastest sync method, supposing one has access to a synced node, but also supposing that it won't do to simply copy the blocks (and it won't, you want to verify) is an eater-shitter system
1593678;1483118981;phf;mysql solution is to creatively relax acid and hope things will "just work", which is the flip side of "mysql crashes all the time"
1593679;1483119056;davout;phf: iirc mysql's innodb lets you choose your isolation level per transaction
1593680;1483119107;mircea_popescu;phf think for a second : the whole FUCKING POINT of a semaphore, of any kind, is that user can't know what the other item involved is doing. if they could know, they wouldn't "avoid the locks", they'd avoid the bad write outright.
1593681;1483119160;jurov;davout: you can sync only from prb 0.10.4 and earlier
1593682;1483119201;davout;jurov: because prb's dumped block format changed?
1593683;1483119207;mircea_popescu;pretty much.
1593684;1483119234;mircea_popescu;they have a new protocol.
1593685;1483119243;jurov;davout: the ondisk format (not blocks, but index) changed much earlier, oorc at 0.9 or so
1593686;1483119256;jurov;i was talking about network syncing
1593687;1483119305;davout;ah yeah, i'm currently syncing off ben_vulpes, i was wondering if dumping blocks from prb and then eating them with trb would work
1593688;1483119317;mircea_popescu;prb has dumpblock ?
1593689;1483119375;*;davout is currently checking
1593690;1483119396;davout;found "preciousblock" command. wtf
1593691;1483119403;mircea_popescu;lol
1593692;1483119420;davout;hahah god, check this out http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8CwCf/?raw=true
1593693;1483119565;davout;so yeah, prb does have a way to dump a block to hex from a block hash, and a way to get a block hash from a height, looks like this could work
1593694;1483119566;mircea_popescu;o look, a precious block!
1593695;1483119582;mircea_popescu;davout keep us posted.
1593696;1483119621;davout;did you just assume my diligence?
1593697;1483119626;davout;maybe i'm too lazy to script this and can live with waiting a month to sync!
1593698;1483119659;phf;mircea_popescu: i'm not quite groking what the bad write is. are you saying that instead of intermingling writes and reads, you should batch them, and not write while you're reading?
1593699;1483119664;davout;looks pretty trivial tbh, will probably end up doing it
1593700;1483119681;davout;what's the syncing bottleneck on trb's side?
1593701;1483119695;davout;actually fetching the block data?
1593702;1483119733;mircea_popescu;phf i am saying that if you imagine the user can be relied on to "know where the locks are and read around them" then you are therefore necessarily saying "locks are useless - user can always know what he wanted locked and simply not write there hurr"
1593703;1483119785;davout;mircea_popescu: seems to me like it would reduce to 'moving the problem'
1593704;1483119794;mircea_popescu;because, again, a semaphore exists because the user does not know what the user is doing.
1593705;1483119794;phf;mircea_popescu: that's not quite what i'm saying.
1593706;1483119818;mircea_popescu;davout this is entirely my argument : they've moved the problem and call this "modern db"
1593707;1483119856;mircea_popescu;and im supposed to be so cowed by the risk of being called mysql-sometrhing that i'm not going to say anything or i dunno
1593708;1483119876;phf;that's not even close to what i'm saying though.
1593709;1483119898;mircea_popescu;say it again, mebbe it sticks this time.
1593710;1483120083;mircea_popescu;davout neh, block verification.
1593711;1483120132;davout;but then, how can it vastly improve sync time to feed blocks from same machine instead of letting trb suck them from the network?
1593712;1483120154;jurov;mircea_popescu: you would trade speed for occassionally getting garbage when you call read()?
1593713;1483120159;davout;and re locking, how's a RDBMS to provide ACID guantees without locking?
1593714;1483120172;mircea_popescu;whether i would or i wouldn't IS NOT THE DB'S DECISION, jurov .
1593715;1483120177;phf;you have your basic database requirements: atomicity, consistency, isolation and durability. these are axiomatic, you either expect them to hold or there's no point in further elaboration. at least SQL from the conception guaranteed the four requirements. "dirty read" violates consistency. your table might be half way through an update, you do a "dirty read", which is necessarily faster than update, and you have half the results with
1593716;1483120178;phf;old values, other half with new values. you ~can~ guarantee four requirements ~without~ using locks
1593717;1483120182;davout;(not saying that locking should be mandatory ofc)
1593718;1483120252;mircea_popescu;phf here's the problem : moder(field) consists of take field, redefine it in a practically useless but superficially persuasive way, then bad_words() to whoever dares ask if your "field" solves any important questions in the field. because of course it doesn't, MIT is the premier institution in science(*) and technology(*) in the werld.
1593719;1483120258;phf;but that's the slowest option, so you have strategies for increase of speed that involve strategic placement of locks
1593720;1483120274;mircea_popescu;whether i want consistency as arbitrarily defined by you is my decision, not yours.
1593721;1483120290;mircea_popescu;one cuts and the other picks. if you cut db field into "acid" i pick you out of existence.
1593722;1483120340;jurov;mircea_popescu: in this case asciilifeform categorically claimed he decided to have consistency, or are you deciding otherwise?
1593723;1483120389;mircea_popescu;you are confusing two consistencies. the problem here discussed is dirty read by www ; its consistency with the actual db is not seriously contemplated.
1593724;1483120420;mircea_popescu;meanwhile inconsistency within the actual db are a different matter.
1593725;1483120514;jurov;so you're fine if wwwtron occassionally read mangled pointer and returned for exampel contents of /etc/passwd?
1593726;1483120522;jurov;this is what it boild down into
1593727;1483120536;jurov;*boils
1593728;1483120556;mircea_popescu;and here's exactly the problem of superficiality : "you either expect consistency or there's no point in discussing". there's LEVELS. maybe i expect all my writes to be consistent and don't care by A CLASS of reads being consistent. this is a consistency model that's consistent.
1593729;1483120584;mircea_popescu;jurov no ; but i am fine with wwwtron ocasionally reading a field that has meanwhile been updated, and giving old, of an unspecified age but less than x time.
1593730;1483120594;davout;jurov: i think it's more like nobody gives a shit if static wwwtron is out of sync with DB
1593731;1483120610;mircea_popescu;and THIS is what i mean re "problems in the field". whopee, idiots who can't code still want to be "at the forefront of computing" so they made a modern db that doesn't work.
1593732;1483120641;mircea_popescu;and i'm supposed to care about the fact that they don't know how to write a db that doesn't spit out passwd ?
1593733;1483120650;mircea_popescu;and if i don't im racist and rapist ? really ?
1593734;1483120703;jurov;mircea_popescu: this is the problem with c machine, that everythign is pointer, and without preemptive locking, you can't distinguish your pointer points to merely stale data vs. garbage
1593735;1483120715;mircea_popescu;oh i see. it's the c machine. ok then.
1593736;1483120736;mircea_popescu;how about prostgres===mysql because guess what, c machine. hm ?
1593737;1483120755;jurov;cuz buth postgres and mysql are in C?
1593738;1483120761;mircea_popescu;YOU JUST SAID THIS!
1593739;1483120775;phf;well, "you either expect" is because ~sql~ as a db language is specified to have acid. there are databases that support dirty reads/writes they are just not "sql"
1593740;1483120796;mircea_popescu;phf you'll have to link me to this.
1593741;1483120833;davout;phf: you're saying postgresql doesn't have a "read uncommitted" transaction isolation level like innodb?
1593742;1483120851;jurov;phf no mircea imagines he can order c machine "read me this without any locking, but it must be in some class or!"
1593743;1483120864;phf;davout: no, nor does oracle :o
1593744;1483120864;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593697 << scripting is too much work, just manually dump every block and then manually load it into trb once the previous eat completes. nice meditative activity
1593745;1483120864;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 17:40 davout: maybe i'm too lazy to script this and can live with waiting a month to sync!
1593746;1483120881;mircea_popescu;davout no he's saying it's not in the sql spec! which, considering how specwork goes, he might be even right about some version.
1593747;1483121261;phf;i'm wrong, sql92 allows dirty read in read uncommitted
1593748;1483121286;mircea_popescu;alright.
1593749;1483121362;mircea_popescu;!#add precious point
1593750;1483121387;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593682 << prb aint got dumpblock
1593751;1483121387;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 17:33 davout: jurov: because prb's dumped block format changed?
1593752;1483121399;mircea_popescu;apparently he found something, dunno.
1593753;1483121416;mircea_popescu;we'll see how it goeth.
1593754;1483121428;davout;asciilifeform: it does have a command that shits hex at me given a block hash
1593755;1483121442;mircea_popescu;well that's the next best thing.
1593756;1483121463;davout;oic, dumpblock dumps binary?
1593757;1483121474;asciilifeform;aha
1593758;1483121482;asciilifeform;whole block
1593759;1483121483;mircea_popescu;davout the suspicion is that relevant data may be missing from the thing, but we really dunno.
1593760;1483121490;asciilifeform;eatblock -- eats it
1593761;1483121501;davout;well, either a block verifies, or it doesn't
1593762;1483121514;mircea_popescu;the bar is higher, but anyway, yes.
1593763;1483121526;asciilifeform;all of my nodes, fwiw, descend from the eatblock experiment
1593764;1483121550;asciilifeform;which, in turn, ate mircea_popescu 's vintage block set
1593765;1483121577;davout;i'm still curious what would make this kind of setup where i script "prb dumpblock | hex2bin | trb eatblock" much faster than syncing from network if the bottleneck is indeed the block verification?
1593766;1483121580;mircea_popescu;filtering a chain out of the soup outside like BingoBoingo is not without merit.
1593767;1483121608;mircea_popescu;davout block verification is the bottleneck in the dump-eat block process.
1593768;1483121610;ben_vulpes;davout: my node is for example, busy sometimes serving blocks to other people
1593769;1483121614;mircea_popescu;otherwise, the bottleneck is the shitsoup outisde.
1593770;1483121620;ben_vulpes;sometimes verifying a new block
1593771;1483121624;phf;davout: you don't get consistent, uninterrupted, sequential chain of blocks. the actual distribution pattern is a mess, that "orphanage" was bandaiding
1593772;1483121642;davout;ok. imma give it a shot
1593773;1483121653;asciilifeform;davout: mempool operation slows sync 100x
1593774;1483121697;asciilifeform;ditch it, and ditch randos and their shitblocks, and 0--current sync takes 6 or so hrs.
1593775;1483121736;asciilifeform;hence eatblock on airgapped box.
1593776;1483121767;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593675 << mircea_popescu nails it: postgres is crippled 'for yer own good'
1593777;1483121767;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 17:29 mircea_popescu: exactly how the statements {"do not allow anyone else to write here until i say" ; "let anyone read anything at any time"} amount to an "unsolved problem in cs" ? and wtf cs is this we speak of, sounds more like chewinggum-science.
1593778;1483121794;asciilifeform;it is precisely chewing gum, 1000 tonned of it
1593779;1483121800;phf;not just postgresql mind you. oracle definitely, mssql as far as i know
1593780;1483121800;asciilifeform;*tonnes
1593781;1483121808;asciilifeform;all of'em
1593782;1483121815;asciilifeform;liquishit.
1593783;1483121841;asciilifeform;'keep monkeys from injuring self and others'
1593784;1483121970;jurov;asciilifeform: so is there any database in existence that allows it? without occassional garbage?
1593785;1483121978;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593712 << why should i ever get garbage when reading ~unrelated~ datum?!!
1593786;1483121978;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 17:49 jurov: mircea_popescu: you would trade speed for occassionally getting garbage when you call read()?
1593787;1483121991;mircea_popescu;dude the fact that every other girl in your class is a slut isn't going to feed you or your baby.
1593788;1483121997;asciilifeform;or wait, 'spittoon is in one strand' ??
1593789;1483122011;jurov;because the db was in the middle of balancing some datastructure?
1593790;1483122033;mircea_popescu;so let it use locks :D
1593791;1483122064;asciilifeform;it's malignantly retarded, and i'ma burn it down.
1593792;1483122074;asciilifeform;all of it.
1593793;1483122078;mircea_popescu;sadly chewing gum is not flammable.
1593794;1483122089;jurov;my point is, if you want to read arbitrary stuff at arbitrary time, you must *carefully design* for it. you don;t get it for free on c machine
1593795;1483122105;asciilifeform;hence the slow methodical spray of petrol
1593796;1483122121;mircea_popescu;this point has some merit, but we're reading "arbitrary" stuff not arbitrary stuff, it's addressed to the db abstraction which is allowed to handle it, not directly to pointers.
1593797;1483122128;mircea_popescu;i don't demand db hand over real memory addresses.
1593798;1483122206;asciilifeform;i pissed on 'db' concept as a student, and i piss today: custom data structure for each job! the year ~is~ 1972.
1593799;1483122224;asciilifeform;prolly forever
1593800;1483122254;mircea_popescu;this is not so differeny from my "if you absolutely must hire shaman, hire mysql, it's cheapest"
1593801;1483122271;asciilifeform;sql is exactly the infamous vice-grip: 'the wrong tool for every job'
1593802;1483122298;trinque;sure, but the tool for vast piles of relational time series data looks very much like relational database, but not for idiots.
1593803;1483122317;asciilifeform;and sometimes, cheap shaman is a disaster, and you want an actual surgeon.
1593804;1483122328;mircea_popescu;what you want matters as much as what you hope.
1593805;1483122335;mircea_popescu;you get what there is.
1593806;1483122367;asciilifeform;well yes, you get cut open by the butcher you have, not the surgeon you wish you had
1593807;1483122390;mircea_popescu;anyway. this has been, at least to me, an informative excursion.
1593808;1483122400;*;asciilifeform brb
1593809;1483122448;phf;dirty read would definitely solve me a lot of headache now, though not enough motivation to switch to mysql. not so much when i worked on oracle for a g-sib where you want acid, so instead "avoid bad writes"
1593810;1483122499;mircea_popescu;there's a reason mysql owns the web, and that has to do with this very specific www-powered profile described above, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593729
1593811;1483122499;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 17:56 mircea_popescu: jurov no ; but i am fine with wwwtron ocasionally reading a field that has meanwhile been updated, and giving old, of an unspecified age but less than x time.
1593812;1483122555;mircea_popescu;which is just about what the web MEANS. www = "that data exploration mechanism which  ocasionally puts out old data, of an unspecified age but younger than x".
1593813;1483122577;mircea_popescu;to go into trinque 's mullings about the meaning of things and items.
1593814;1483122586;phf;well, it's also reason why the kind of stuff you could run on a beefy dreamhost now requires $5k/mo amazon rds instance
1593815;1483122605;mircea_popescu;im not sure i follow this one ?
1593816;1483122692;jurov;mircea_popescu: yes, but most of www can live with crashing database (even innocent reading can cause sigsegv, sadly)
1593817;1483122726;phf;mircea_popescu: rds is amazon's hosted relational database solution(tm) which is a postgresql on a unixbox
1593818;1483122728;mircea_popescu;jurov trilema db never crashed, in 9+ years and however many quintillion queries.
1593819;1483122740;trinque;the reason I flip the process and say that db writes static www, rather than www reads db, is that the write of www matter can be transactional with db state update.
1593820;1483122754;trinque;consider the case where a form is generated based on db state, and the validity of that form depends on db state
1593821;1483122759;mircea_popescu;phf yes, but a fine approach to answering "what is the basis of alf's value as an engineer" is pointing out that he runs phuctor on the phuctor box, which fails to cost 5k/mo.
1593822;1483122775;trinque;you otherwise get a case where one user can't submit his form, because mismatch between UI and acceptable-insert
1593823;1483122789;trinque;then from there you can optimize and say "I don't care if one guy gets stale form, need moar speed"
1593824;1483122798;mircea_popescu;of course random dorks go on about how no such labs will go out of business through the unlikely avenue of delivering what is clearing 1mn/year worth of services out of <1k/month, but hey.
1593825;1483122800;trinque;and forgo the transactional write of the form
1593826;1483122801;mircea_popescu;that's what the web is for.
1593827;1483122840;phf;true, but alf also "won't touch the web"
1593828;1483122849;mircea_popescu;except he does, evidently.
1593829;1483122873;mircea_popescu;he's written more webfacing stuff than ~everyone else. he has teh red army spirit.
1593830;1483122917;phf;for the republic, not for hitler. he lacks that certain "good german" spirit, ja
1593831;1483122955;mircea_popescu;well, dunno about "than anyone else" in that very general form, but certainly more than you'd expect or he'd have hoped.
1593832;1483123043;mircea_popescu;trinque the idea isn't without merit.
1593833;1483124382;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592846 << I have synced and pressed makefiles.vpatch, but there's no C code, only makefiles
1593834;1483124382;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 22:54 ben_vulpes: jurov: would you be so kind as to update the lxr with makefiles.vpatch ?
1593835;1483124463;jurov;ben_vulpes et al.: how you want to present this in lxr? or are there more steps?
1593836;1483124470;mod6;wut
1593837;1483124501;mod6;everything, if press happened correctly, should be under bitcoin/src
1593838;1483124578;jurov;ok, i'll rather start again from the beginning. what's the newest v.pl version?
1593839;1483124623;mod6;jurov: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html
1593840;1483124641;davout;jurov: werked for me :3
1593841;1483124667;davout;asciilifeform: why is there a specific -caneat flag? is there something specifically dangerous about eating blocks?
1593842;1483124684;jurov;me was working with V-20151014.tar.gz :)
1593843;1483124710;ben_vulpes;jurov: have you run msft updater today? :P
1593844;1483124782;mod6;jurov: in that howto, you'll find a series of both offline steps, and online steps.  you can choose your own adventure.
1593845;1483124811;jurov;i see, ty
1593846;1483124897;davout;also i'm getting a "Flushing wallet.dat" after each eatblock, eats ~50ms each time
1593847;1483124948;ben_vulpes;davout: yup
1593848;1483124983;ben_vulpes;because it has to keep track of the inputs for all of the addresses it made ten minutes ago
1593849;1483125039;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593841 << it's part of the not-being-prb business, not to foist changes that have ~any~ potential sharp edges on operator
1593850;1483125039;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 19:04 davout: asciilifeform: why is there a specific -caneat flag? is there something specifically dangerous about eating blocks?
1593851;1483125110;davout;asciilifeform: you mean it files rough edges off every single time?
1593852;1483125130;asciilifeform;eatblock is a specialist tool
1593853;1483125187;asciilifeform;and yes, it is only accessible via rpc anyway
1593854;1483125210;asciilifeform;but i saw no reason not to give it a red flip cover.
1593855;1483125275;davout;right
1593856;1483125420;davout;ok, ~/blox/ass_to_mouth.rb is working, we'll see how that goes
1593857;1483125443;mircea_popescu;nice.
1593858;1483125609;asciilifeform;davout: why do you have a prb node, out of curiosity?
1593859;1483125631;davout;because createrawtx et al.
1593860;1483125646;asciilifeform;waiwat
1593861;1483125674;asciilifeform;wassat
1593862;1483125732;davout;what do you mean? i create transactions from arbitrary unspent outputs, sign them, and broadcast them
1593863;1483125744;asciilifeform;ah
1593864;1483125781;davout;hence my previous questions about the state of this particular functionality in trb
1593865;1483125797;mod6;working on it :]
1593866;1483125828;mod6;well, was, anyway.  once the new changes for V are complete/tested/released, will be back on it.
1593867;1483125849;davout;yeah, ben_vulpes told me in your very chan, if i can help it i'd be happy to, it does sound like a pretty good starting point for me to hack on trb
1593868;1483125859;davout;"scratch your own itch"
1593869;1483125910;jurov;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src?v=makefiles << mod6 asciilifeform ben_vulpes
1593870;1483125920;davout;pretty much the only thing i personally need to be able to rm -rf all traces of prb from my boxen
1593871;1483125920;mod6;well, ... feel free.  but i think the coding part aside, which isn't going to be horribru, since a lot of it is backport anyway. but the testing is gonna be gnarly.
1593872;1483125935;ben_vulpes;ty jurov
1593873;1483125948;mod6;and am going to try to build tools, if needed, to help test this.
1593874;1483125971;davout;mod6: i think it would actually be the least painful part to test
1593875;1483125982;mod6;really?  why do you think so?
1593876;1483125990;ben_vulpes;mod6: "test[ing] this" is actually how i got on the alpha centauri miner quest
1593877;1483126021;davout;try to craft a bunch of transactions, sign them, it either works or doesn't work, testing this functionality doesn't seem to depend on a lot of external, hard to reproduce, state
1593878;1483126039;davout;s/state/context/
1593879;1483126055;ben_vulpes;create and sign at least may be testable via the boost testing framework that's already in place
1593880;1483126093;davout;yeah, that's something that seems to me pretty easily testable in a "isolated unit tests" way
1593881;1483126135;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593869 << pretty neat, ty jurov .
1593882;1483126135;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 19:25 jurov: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src?v=makefiles << mod6 asciilifeform ben_vulpes
1593883;1483126143;ben_vulpes;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/test/transaction_tests.cpp?v=makefiles#0004
1593884;1483126148;ben_vulpes;davout: ^^
1593885;1483126157;mod6;those are not really unit tests, those are functional tests.  but yeah.
1593886;1483126183;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: this won't , as i understand, help him, he wants to ~craft~ tx, not merely broadcast-raw
1593887;1483126192;mod6;i think over all it's a decent approach.  have some pre-crafted transactions, and see how it goes. this is minimum.  i wanna make sure we don't just capture "happy-path" but, all edge cases too.
1593888;1483126200;ben_vulpes;davout's a rubyist, don't expect rigor in terminology from him mod6 :P
1593889;1483126201;asciilifeform;as in, y'know, the thing that wallet ~ought to have done from day 1~
1593890;1483126214;asciilifeform;instead of the 'accounts' and 'wallets' idiocy
1593891;1483126214;mod6;no room for error here, lest someone sends all their coins out as a large fee, or some crazyness.
1593892;1483126245;mod6;anyway!  glad to have the help, and the experience from someone who uses this end of bitcoin quite a bit.
1593893;1483126249;mod6;:]
1593894;1483126259;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: sorry, what?
1593895;1483126261;mod6;we'll be discussing more in the near future i do suspect, Sir.
1593896;1483126262;asciilifeform;mod6: error can be tolerated in ~autopilot that user can disable at all times~, i.e. it ~recommends~ a tx, user can review before firing
1593897;1483126283;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: as i understand, davout was asking for sane-wallet, rather than merely raw-tx-hopper
1593898;1483126312;mod6;im not fixing the wallet, in this case, ftr.  i'm just putting in the ability to create and send a raw tx.
1593899;1483126320;mod6;and some other tools like 'listunspent' etc.
1593900;1483126324;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: he's still digesting "how to cut the wallet", let him ask for the things for which he's going to ask
1593901;1483126325;asciilifeform;mod6: what means, in this case, 'create' ?
1593902;1483126375;mod6;eh.  mis-spoke kinda.
1593903;1483126393;mod6;"build" a rawtx by hand, send it.
1593904;1483126419;mod6;anyway, im just working through the beginning stages here.  so im certainly not an expert on rawtxns
1593905;1483126459;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mod6: error can be tolerated in ~autopilot that user can disable at all times~, i.e. it ~recommends~ a tx, user can review before firing << umm, i dunno about this.
1593906;1483126465;davout;asciilifeform: i'm simply after the functionality of crafting raw txes from an arbitrary of outputs that *I* select, not wallet functionality in the sense of letting the system work out the details of "send X bitcoin to Y address"
1593907;1483126485;davout;s/arbitrary of/arbitrary list/
1593908;1483126497;asciilifeform;mod6: 'create a tx' is np-complete (knapsack problem) so you can potentially end up with strange solutions. user MUST approve before firing.
1593909;1483126502;asciilifeform;the current behaviour is nuts.
1593910;1483126543;mod6;ok. i didn't grok your sentence above.
1593911;1483126548;asciilifeform;but the probability of 'txtron suggests 'send all money to karpeles' or 'send a million btc as fee' ought to be 0.
1593912;1483126554;mod6;i read 'errors are tolerated'.  and freaked.
1593913;1483126588;davout;asciilifeform: my opinion is that the system doesn't even have any business *attempting* to select which outputs should be spent, let the user plug whichever system he wants on top of the low level "raw tx from arbitrary inputs" tool set
1593914;1483126601;mod6;yeah, a valid rawtx is valid, but yeha, should be approved, somehow by user, before sending.
1593915;1483126623;asciilifeform;davout: by all means it oughta have manual knobs.
1593916;1483126646;davout;i content that these should be the ~only~ knobs at trb level
1593917;1483126647;asciilifeform;but there is no reason i ought to have to enter 8 decimal points BY FUCKING HAND 10,001 times to make a tx.
1593918;1483126657;asciilifeform;there ~will~ be error.
1593919;1483126659;asciilifeform;if i have to do that.
1593920;1483126667;asciilifeform;and error in ~fired~ tx is intolerable.
1593921;1483126690;davout;script it on top of trb, don't integrate it directly in there is what I think is the correct solution
1593922;1483126713;asciilifeform;so, now what, the thing drags perl along with it into eternity? python ?
1593923;1483126769;davout;i didn't say it had to come *with* trb
1593924;1483126781;asciilifeform;if trb is not usable NAKED, it ain't trb !
1593925;1483126783;mod6;<+jurov> http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src?v=makefiles << mod6 asciilifeform ben_vulpes << cool! thanks
1593926;1483126786;asciilifeform;not a ~reference~ !
1593927;1483126791;asciilifeform;we had this 'lose the wallet!' thread.
1593928;1483126794;asciilifeform;before. several times.
1593929;1483126812;mod6;<+davout> mod6: i think it would actually be the least painful part to test << anyway, i hope so.  im sure there will be more discussion in coming months.
1593930;1483126817;davout;such a setup ~is~ usable naked
1593931;1483126827;asciilifeform;davout: how ?
1593932;1483126838;asciilifeform;unless i misunderstand, you suggested removing functionality that ~was~ there in 2009
1593933;1483126843;asciilifeform;in favour of something yet to be written.
1593934;1483126855;davout;in the same way a gun is usable "naked", just don't point it to your face!
1593935;1483126906;davout;the "let program select outputs to spend" half works half of the time, like you said "knapsack problem"
1593936;1483126930;asciilifeform;my contention is that a trb with entirely removed unspent-selector is not usable-naked.
1593937;1483126944;davout;and why not? because dangerous?
1593938;1483126949;asciilifeform;there has to be a basic mechanism where the thing can be used, in anger, 2009-style, sans perl/python/etc.
1593939;1483126965;asciilifeform;davout: no, because i'm not about to calculate ecdsa by hand with pencil on grid paper.
1593940;1483126967;mod6;i don't think that should be removed.  i think that the user aught to have the option to select them if he wants, with rawtx.
1593941;1483126972;asciilifeform;option -- yes.
1593942;1483126979;asciilifeform;raw tx hopper -- also yes
1593943;1483126987;asciilifeform;removal of old grandfather's pistol -- no.
1593944;1483127000;asciilifeform;unless there is a clear and fully-capable replacement.
1593945;1483127015;davout;imho a "warn-if-insane-fee" config knob is largely sufficient, and would allow removal of the "output selection" nonsense from the code
1593946;1483127021;asciilifeform;this is what distinguishes us from the beasts of the fields, folx.
1593947;1483127036;ben_vulpes;you two are using "output selection" to mean two different things
1593948;1483127039;asciilifeform;what distinguishes surgeon from butcher.
1593949;1483127070;ben_vulpes;one of you is using it to describe the process of selecting signable unspent transaction outputs and another using it to describe the new outputs created
1593950;1483127095;mircea_popescu;davout it is a good starting point yes.
1593951;1483127097;ben_vulpes;at issue here is "where do the coins go" and "how to select the utxos to sign"
1593952;1483127150;davout;utxos to sign -> provided by user
1593953;1483127177;ben_vulpes;davout: and you get this list of utxos how?
1593954;1483127186;davout;trb being able to list utxos given a bunch of addresses would be pretty obviously needed
1593955;1483127198;mod6;listunspent
1593956;1483127200;ben_vulpes;loya
1593957;1483127206;davout;but then we're going down the bitcoinfs rabbit hole
1593958;1483127218;asciilifeform;i dun think 'listunspent' is escapable, no.
1593959;1483127221;ben_vulpes;with the current mechanism you'll have to import those addresses and rescan some amount of the blockchain to find the utxos you want
1593960;1483127237;ben_vulpes;index with symlinks on address too why not
1593961;1483127250;asciilifeform;why? if you have the privkey, every incoming valid block is inspected for tx pertaining to $addr
1593962;1483127257;asciilifeform;even in the oldest trb.
1593963;1483127260;ben_vulpes;today, yes
1593964;1483127266;asciilifeform;and in any sane future trb.
1593965;1483127283;ben_vulpes;any sane trb that doesn't index tx on output address i suppose
1593966;1483127292;davout;yeah that's pretty much the point
1593967;1483127305;davout;indexing based on address seems the sanest to me
1593968;1483127305;ben_vulpes;wallet boils down to 'index of txen paying to addresses i care about' anyways
1593969;1483127308;asciilifeform;index'em however you like, if new blocks aren't inspected for pertinent-to-me tx, the thing's a turd
1593970;1483127330;asciilifeform;there is 0 reason why any extra processing ought to be needed for this.
1593971;1483127335;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593945 << this is the wrong approach. you want to not shit in soup, not to filter shit from soup prior to serving.
1593972;1483127335;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 19:43 davout: imho a "warn-if-insane-fee" config knob is largely sufficient, and would allow removal of the "output selection" nonsense from the code
1593973;1483127337;asciilifeform;just walk the new blocks. as is done now.
1593974;1483127339;davout;such index allows complete excision of wallet functionality, and reduces privacy concerns should your node somehow get buttraped
1593975;1483127350;ben_vulpes;'inspected for pertinent-to-me tx' is a subset of 'index blocks sanely'
1593976;1483127380;davout;mircea_popescu: ok, "forbid-insane-fee" then
1593977;1483127384;asciilifeform;davout: if your node is raped, anything that is fed into it is also visible to enemy, and you have 0 privacy of anything but (possibly) privkeys
1593978;1483127411;asciilifeform;and that's supposing you are meticulous about using 'diode' etc.
1593979;1483127418;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593954 << ben_vulpes is going that way from my understanding.
1593980;1483127418;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 19:46 davout: trb being able to list utxos given a bunch of addresses would be pretty obviously needed
1593981;1483127436;davout;asciilifeform: privkey privacy is pretty much all that matters imo
1593982;1483127459;asciilifeform;davout: which pubkeys you watch is also something enemy has 0 business knowing
1593983;1483127468;mircea_popescu;there is that.
1593984;1483127469;asciilifeform;even if not as catastrophic as privkey leak
1593985;1483127475;davout;i might very well broadcast other folk's txes from my node, just as well as i might broadcast my own txes from arbitrary shitnodes
1593986;1483127477;ben_vulpes;which is why index the whole blockchaaaaaain
1593987;1483127487;davout;asciilifeform: ben_vulpes has it
1593988;1483127489;ben_vulpes;fine i'm going to go scream in a corner where i'm sure i'm the only one listening
1593989;1483127496;asciilifeform;this is actually one of the reasons i insisted on eatblock and dumpblock
1593990;1483127497;mircea_popescu;is there something being discussed or we just shootin da breeze ?
1593991;1483127501;asciilifeform;it lets you have airgapped nodes.
1593992;1483127522;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand, thread was originally about 'sane wallet mechanism'
1593993;1483127531;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: we're cramming a year+ of wallet into davout's head now that he's paying attention again
1593994;1483127540;davout;haha fuck you
1593995;1483127542;mircea_popescu;yeah just parser failed to return anything in the $controversy construct
1593996;1483127556;ben_vulpes;davout: cheeky
1593997;1483127589;phf;everyone sensing there ought to be a fight, but everyone's agreeing
1593998;1483127623;davout;anyway, i guess my position basically boils down to: "as far as trb proper is concerned, best wallet is no wallet. but sane indexing mechanisms"
1593999;1483127631;ben_vulpes;^
1594000;1483127657;ben_vulpes;hey, the power rangers wanted 20mb blocks for whatever reason. i want indices.
1594001;1483127661;mircea_popescu;davout this is pretty much agreed upon, provided you mean by the words what we mean by the words.
1594002;1483127764;davout;let's elaborate i guess
1594003;1483127796;davout;currently unspent outputs are indexed by address
1594004;1483127825;mircea_popescu;and incidentally "knapsack" problem is a fucking overstatement. here's a very simple strategy : 1. sort available inputs by size ; 2. if current step != last step,  select first input that is smaller than tx going out else select the input right before that ; recurse to 1.
1594005;1483127833;mircea_popescu;user defines number of steps and that's it.
1594006;1483127841;davout;trb should be able to shit list of unspent outputs, optionally filtered by address
1594007;1483127864;mircea_popescu;no, actually, trb should apply the above scheme EXACTLY like how v applies patches : you populate a wot with acceptable addresses
1594008;1483127870;mircea_popescu;which may be "all" or a subset at your option.
1594009;1483127886;davout;crafts desired transaction therefrom, insert in mempool ~fin~
1594010;1483127892;mircea_popescu;right.
1594011;1483127908;mircea_popescu;well technically spits it out, it shouldn't insert by itself.
1594012;1483127916;mircea_popescu;for one thing it may not have authority to sign tx.
1594013;1483127920;ben_vulpes;still needs signing, yeah
1594014;1483127946;davout;mircea_popescu: yeah, i meant it as a separate, user-initiated step
1594015;1483127970;mircea_popescu;right.
1594016;1483127979;davout;maybe you want to broadcast that transaction from mit prb nodes, up to you
1594017;1483128038;davout;no more "oh, but the transaction you're attempting doesn't match min fee $magic_number"
1594018;1483128110;mircea_popescu;right
1594019;1483128131;*;mircea_popescu was pretty impressed with davout 's bitbet liquidation tx.
1594020;1483128209;davout;no, but seriously, how many times did I beat prb into crafting txes it would give me unwarranted opinions about
1594021;1483128215;davout;that ended up confirming just fine
1594022;1483128221;mircea_popescu;aha.
1594023;1483128245;davout;and equipped with such sanity, if your transaction doesn't confirm, double spend it, no big deal
1594024;1483128246;mircea_popescu;anyway - go, code.
1594025;1483128265;davout;no more "oh, but this transaction is already in my mempool, sfyl"
1594026;1483128274;*;mircea_popescu is going to start recommending people go to barren islands after all. turns out boredom is promotive of sanity.
1594027;1483128293;davout;i want this transaction broadcast, just fucking drop whatever's conflicting with it
1594028;1483128296;asciilifeform;davout: the entire attempt to mechanically distinguish 'double' from normal spends is an evil prbism
1594029;1483128297;asciilifeform;and Must Die
1594030;1483128314;mircea_popescu;no dude! you wand some acid?
1594031;1483128320;asciilifeform;a doublespend is, in sane planet, STRICTLY attempt to spend coin that was already spent IN A BLOCK
1594032;1483128326;asciilifeform;not in mempool soup.
1594033;1483128340;asciilifeform;and in the block case -- yes, mechanically rejectable.
1594034;1483128348;davout;latest example of transaction "that shouldn't have confirmed": e73d40c1aa9147e426de43d64753c2318c234426f6efbd090a7a9313d87f95e6
1594035;1483128354;davout;a couple of days ago
1594036;1483128366;asciilifeform;davout: why 'shouldn't have confirmed' in this case ?
1594037;1483128371;davout;ended up just perfectly sent to children in uganda
1594038;1483128394;davout;asciilifeform: because it apparently didn't match whatever prb thought was a "minimum fee"
1594039;1483128421;davout;nevermind that this transaction not only carried a fee, but also resulted in a net cleanup of the utxo set
1594040;1483128438;mats;so much log
1594041;1483128448;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594027 << this is only half of the headache. the behaviour of heathen nodes, who think that they already have 'your' tx, and the new one is 'doublespend', is the other half.
1594042;1483128448;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 20:04 davout: i want this transaction broadcast, just fucking drop whatever's conflicting with it
1594043;1483128454;asciilifeform;and those -- must be exterminated.
1594044;1483128465;asciilifeform;because they are a malignancy.
1594045;1483128475;mats;asciilifeform: best part is the tacit omission that usg can be owned by 6 year old with five bitcents to rub together
1594046;1483128482;mats;lulululul
1594047;1483128482;davout;asciilifeform: this ended up never being a problem in practice
1594048;1483128486;asciilifeform;let'em live in the wild, with the wolves, with prb segshitness etc.
1594049;1483128498;asciilifeform;davout: ahahaha recall the bbet shitstorm ?
1594050;1483128529;davout;i'm not remembering until my lawyer is around
1594051;1483128540;mircea_popescu;mats was that a quote ?
1594052;1483128542;asciilifeform;lel
1594053;1483128603;mats;mircea_popescu: no, i wish
1594054;1483128642;mircea_popescu;irconfused.
1594055;1483128653;mats;er, admission*
1594056;1483128682;asciilifeform;davout: for whatever reason, there exist miners who SIT on a tx, right until the very millisecond that they see a 'doublespend' OF it, and then IMMEDIATELY mine the ~first~ one.
1594057;1483128688;asciilifeform;why -- to this day i do not know.
1594058;1483128703;phf;ftr, least i somehow become sql acid proponent, i'd like to point out that i'm the only person running tmsr infrastructure ~not on a sql database~
1594059;1483128703;asciilifeform;somehow, this profits somebody, somewhere, or is perhaps a side-effect of some other idiocy.
1594060;1483128719;asciilifeform;phf: i thought your logtron was fed by a standard db..?
1594061;1483128724;phf;no wai
1594062;1483128737;asciilifeform;by what, then
1594063;1483128742;davout;asciilifeform: weird
1594064;1483128768;asciilifeform;davout: they'll pick up high-S tx also, and sit on then RIGHT UNTIL you broadcast a doublespend with correct chirality
1594065;1483128775;asciilifeform;and ~immediately~ fire the malleated one
1594066;1483128788;asciilifeform;*on them
1594067;1483128831;asciilifeform;i do not know why this is done, nor have any plausible hypothesis. vermin do what vermin do.
1594068;1483128877;davout;since vermin can hardly be completely exterminated the correct approach seems to be "don't go live in sewer"
1594069;1483128894;ben_vulpes;phf: i think this is pretty neat, have wondered about your x-referencer etc
1594070;1483128925;asciilifeform;davout: atm we are at the medieval tech level where we have -- afaik -- nfi how to live without lice, fleas.
1594071;1483128926;asciilifeform;miners.
1594072;1483128943;asciilifeform;i, for one, would love to discover how.
1594073;1483128971;davout;why would a lord want to live without at least ~some~ peasants around?
1594074;1483128989;phf;asciilifeform: a log is just push-vector with checkpoints. entire thing barely takes up 200mb of in memory data
1594075;1483128999;asciilifeform;theoretically a 'will go in node xxxxxxx --- yyyyyyy inclusive or NEVER' field in tx, would have been sane. but it is too late, this is not in bitcoin.
1594076;1483129007;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there is no such thing as "immediately mine".
1594077;1483129008;asciilifeform;*in block
1594078;1483129017;mircea_popescu;to mine a block you must have decided what it contains a long while in advance.
1594079;1483129023;phf;sbcl right now is at 450mb on average, which drops to 270mb after full gc
1594080;1483129025;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: of course not. it gets disgorged.
1594081;1483129031;asciilifeform;so presumably was mined 'in advance'.
1594082;1483129035;asciilifeform;how ? i do not know.
1594083;1483129052;asciilifeform;presumably the 'withholding algo' discussed earlier.
1594084;1483129068;mircea_popescu;phf your honor is not in question sir.
1594085;1483129115;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594075 <<< iirc it's half there, see "locktime"
1594086;1483129115;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 20:16 asciilifeform: theoretically a 'will go in node xxxxxxx --- yyyyyyy inclusive or NEVER' field in tx, would have been sane. but it is too late, this is not in bitcoin.
1594087;1483129124;asciilifeform;davout: locktime is promisetronic!
1594088;1483129132;phf;har
1594089;1483129137;asciilifeform;and even if it weren't, it does the exact OPPOSITE of what i asked for.
1594090;1483129143;davout;asciilifeform: isn't it actually enforced?
1594091;1483129153;asciilifeform;davout: understand, it is 'enforced' by miner cartel ONLY
1594092;1483129182;asciilifeform;anybody with a few mil. usd to burn could rent the hash tonight to thermonuke it.
1594093;1483129191;asciilifeform;(probably even less, i have not crunched exact number.)
1594094;1483129221;asciilifeform;the locktime thing is simply a hint that says 'usg-compliant miners, PLEEEZ dun mine this until block X'
1594095;1483129239;davout;asciilifeform: so you're saying a block including a transaction with locktime > block height is considered valid by trb ?
1594096;1483129241;asciilifeform;they can say 'fuckyou' tonight, if they like.
1594097;1483129244;asciilifeform;yes.
1594098;1483129247;asciilifeform;absolutely.
1594099;1483129257;asciilifeform;we had this thread.
1594100;1483129270;davout;iirc there were two *different* locktime 'features'
1594101;1483129284;davout;one that was there since day 1, the other that was 'soft-forked' in
1594102;1483129296;davout;i shall research
1594103;1483129301;mircea_popescu;davout trb does not implement any of the prbisms.  this means that ANY innovation included by the power rangers is a "while it lasts" thing, and building on top of it is setting one up for tears.
1594104;1483129316;mircea_popescu;sooner or latter prb WILL be unwound. this is a certainty. just a matter of when.
1594105;1483129327;mircea_popescu;this is regularily reiterated just for good measure.
1594106;1483129329;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has it.
1594107;1483129346;davout;mircea_popescu: iirc there was one locktime thing that was there from day 1
1594108;1483129355;asciilifeform;davout: it applied to nonfinal txen strictly.
1594109;1483129364;mircea_popescu;but as far as software design and business risk planning goes, importing any prb means locking in a certain future loss.
1594110;1483129371;davout;asciilifeform: howso?
1594111;1483129425;asciilifeform;davout: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=nLockTime
1594112;1483129468;asciilifeform;the ONLY branches on it, are here: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0435
1594113;1483129486;asciilifeform;carefully follow the logic.
1594114;1483129554;asciilifeform;observe also, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=IsFinal
1594115;1483129582;asciilifeform;afaik all real-life tx are 'final'.
1594116;1483129595;asciilifeform;ergo no trb node will ever reject a tx for reasons pertaining to 'locktime' garbage.
1594117;1483129604;asciilifeform;nor a block containing said 'violator' tx.
1594118;1483129665;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510547 << prev. thread re subj.
1594119;1483129665;a111;Logged on 2016-07-27 18:45 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what EXTANT miners CHOOSE to mine, and what COULD be mined, if there were sane folks mining, are quite distinct things.
1594120;1483129709;asciilifeform;and observe, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510563 , the prb idiots did not ever dare to introduce eggoging-on-locktime-violated. because that there'd be a phork
1594121;1483129709;a111;Logged on 2016-07-27 18:53 asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=0.10.0#0722 << still quite the same in prb 10 !!
1594122;1483129722;asciilifeform;because the bomb ~could~ drop ~tonight~.
1594123;1483129946;davout;so it appears I'm a fucking idiot here
1594124;1483129960;mircea_popescu;this so rarely happens in #trilema
1594125;1483129985;*;ben_vulpes hands davout a beer
1594126;1483129990;davout;asciilifeform: this method returns false if nLockTime is > blockHeight http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h#0436
1594127;1483130000;davout;amirite?
1594128;1483130037;davout;and this one here: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#1268
1594129;1483130056;davout;raises an error should one of the transactions return false for IsFinal ?
1594130;1483130129;asciilifeform;davout: all tx that live in a block must be 'final' yes
1594131;1483130165;davout;so a block doesn't pass AcceptBlock if one of the transactions has nLockTime > blockHeight
1594132;1483130197;asciilifeform;nope, that condition only gets unmet if any INPUT is nonfinal
1594133;1483130203;asciilifeform;AND the blocktime thing. it recurses.
1594134;1483130217;asciilifeform;the fallthrough case is 'true'.
1594135;1483130276;mircea_popescu;there should be a word for computer code that does the opposite of what it "appears" to be wanting to do.
1594136;1483130288;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is called, in this case, 'underhanded c'
1594137;1483130290;mircea_popescu;!dwim
1594138;1483130297;mod6;or typical
1594139;1483130301;davout;asciilifeform: oic
1594140;1483130302;asciilifeform;and yes, this crapola is typical
1594141;1483130308;asciilifeform;'see! we enforce it!'
1594142;1483130312;asciilifeform;'ummm looksy here'
1594143;1483130318;mircea_popescu;typical-underhanded-do-the-opposite-of-what-it-seems-to-mean
1594144;1483130321;davout;also, from reading the source, AcceptBlock is an entirely different beast than CheckBlock
1594145;1483130327;mircea_popescu;davout yes.
1594146;1483130328;asciilifeform;this is the liquishit 'softness' of 'softforks'.
1594147;1483130340;asciilifeform;the ~appearance~ of rules, where there is only promises.
1594148;1483130351;mircea_popescu;and if you are one of those who can summon the mental energy to convince yourself this [sort of thing] is accident rather than mens rea, you have my admiration.
1594149;1483130465;davout;asciilifeform: this IsFinal method is quite weird, if nLockTime < blockHeight, the further checks on the txin are simply skipped
1594150;1483130486;davout;maybe i'm missing the semantics of "transaction finality"
1594151;1483130489;mircea_popescu;which is the type of thing alf is usually loud about, and all thinking men concerned :
1594152;1483130496;mircea_popescu;this sort of thing allows nonconforming txn to be put in!
1594153;1483130504;asciilifeform;aha.
1594154;1483130508;mircea_popescu;including eg btc creating txn
1594155;1483130510;mircea_popescu;here's an extra mn
1594156;1483130522;asciilifeform;that's the end of the line, where this train goes, yes.
1594157;1483130553;davout;in all fairness, some of this stuff might also have been fixed later on
1594158;1483130570;asciilifeform;davout: see a few min ago. link. it was not touched in prb10.
1594159;1483130575;asciilifeform;they daren't. yet.
1594160;1483130599;asciilifeform;because it's '3rd rail.' they change ~any~ semantics, and -- bang -- forkable.
1594161;1483130627;asciilifeform;don't think enemy doesn't know which wires are hot. he -- knows.
1594162;1483130743;mircea_popescu;none of this stuff CAN be fixed.
1594163;1483130758;asciilifeform;^
1594164;1483130774;mircea_popescu;that's why the "pistols" discussion ends up where it does
1594165;1483130776;asciilifeform;also if you'd like more joy in life, look at where 'nBlockTime' comes from.
1594166;1483130816;asciilifeform;(spoiler: it comes from your system clock +/- the voodoo delta that trb comes up with using peers)
1594167;1483130921;asciilifeform;arbitrarily, the comparison is only even performed if the magic is below LOCKTIME_THRESHOLD ( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h#0042 )
1594168;1483130927;asciilifeform;otherwise interpreted as epochtime.
1594169;1483130960;asciilifeform;but at any rate, this threatrical blinkenlight assemblage is simply to distract from the fact that the check IS NOT ENFORCED!
1594170;1483130982;asciilifeform;it is textbook heartbleediste misdirection.
1594171;1483130986;mircea_popescu;so it is.
1594172;1483130991;asciilifeform;or, far earlier, basic stage magic.
1594173;1483131006;asciilifeform;the exact equivalent of meatspace circus sleigh-of-hand.
1594174;1483131014;asciilifeform;*sleight
1594175;1483131415;asciilifeform;(for n00bz) http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594162 << it is important to actually go the gedankenexperiment, in one's mind, and understand why it cannot be fixed.
1594176;1483131415;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 20:45 mircea_popescu: none of this stuff CAN be fixed.
1594177;1483131431;asciilifeform;as soon as you touch the hot wire, you now have a 'schrodinger's blockchain'
1594178;1483131477;asciilifeform;that may or may not get forked at a particular time, but now ~is~ forkable, leaving you and anyone dumb enough to use your patched btctron on the -- almost certainly -- losing end.
1594179;1483131541;asciilifeform;(specifically, a node where somebody touched the hot wire, will accept blocks that other, traditional nodes, will not. and/or reject blocks with they ~will~. definitionally - forktronic.)
1594180;1483131541;mircea_popescu;this is a best case view not supported in practice (by which practice we mean the repeated etherape, symbolic as it is of the chances of the premier science and technology institution in the world in front of a loose assemblage of things that don't, supposedly, exist.)
1594181;1483131568;asciilifeform;it is best-case. average-case will also involve a forest fire that singes ~everybody.
1594182;1483131578;asciilifeform;but it is strange to speak of an 'average case' for phorkwarz.
1594183;1483131589;asciilifeform;we haven't really had many of'em, to learn from.
1594184;1483131593;mircea_popescu;no, actually - a forest fire that singes every ~law abiding~ participant and them only.
1594185;1483131619;mircea_popescu;that "and them only" trailer is mostly why we haven't had the pleasure. just as soon as hitler figures out how to remove it, he WILL burn his citizenry into a crips, as he always does.
1594186;1483131667;mircea_popescu;but hey, citizenry dun wanna believe.
1594187;1483131845;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hitler dun wanna settle for 'burn own citizenry', that's trivial already. he wants to dekulakize mircea_popescu et al.
1594188;1483131861;asciilifeform;drain the battery, if you will, that mircea_popescu et al charged.
1594189;1483131872;asciilifeform;it is how hitlers are powered, after all.
1594190;1483131879;asciilifeform;drainin' other folxs' batteries.
1594191;1483131953;mircea_popescu;so far the winds are not too favourable. consider the situation in the field : hitler has ~exactly one trick~, and it is the following trick : you know i shall fall, and i know i shall fall, and we both know we both know, but here's the thing -- the market can stay liquid for longer than you can stay solvent, especially if the liquid is liquid shit from my liquid shit pump. so come, take positions on my sotck exchange, reflec
1594192;1483131954;mircea_popescu;tive of economic reality, why not.
1594193;1483132045;mircea_popescu;to which mp reacts with http://trilema.com/2014/an-era-ends-today-a-new-era-starts-today/ ; which is notable in the form, but not in the result. hitler gets to do his usual manipulation, and "win", but a) hitler is stuck denying the venue where he won exists, and this hurts him so bad he spends a year trying to get kakobrekla to eventually agree "fiat is a better deal" and whatever other "modern science & democracy" nonsense
1594194;1483132046;mircea_popescu;; and b) that it happens when mp actively says.
1594195;1483132084;mircea_popescu;then hitler tries to make "his own bitcoin", and pumps the battery, which mp drains at his leisure. but it is HIS, hitler figures, so he changes it. and changes it. each subsequent change resulting in erosion of his grasp over the battery in question. the wind blows the other way.
1594196;1483132092;asciilifeform;the exact moment when hitler runs out of furniture to burn, is ~unknowable
1594197;1483132099;asciilifeform;and so various folks, who oughta know better, bet on him.
1594198;1483132105;mircea_popescu;mp can afford to lose however much mp volunteers to lose ; the exposure profile is not symmetrical, hitler keeps having to go all in.
1594199;1483132117;mircea_popescu;moreover, the strategic profile is not symmetrical : the initative is strictly not with hitler.
1594200;1483132120;mircea_popescu;and so here we are.
1594201;1483132135;asciilifeform;dunno that hitler ever goes 'all in', the moneys (however counted) spent on, e.g., haskell, dwarf the ethertard lab budget 100+x
1594202;1483132152;mircea_popescu;the "money" is not a point of interest here.
1594203;1483132173;mircea_popescu;the currency of the reich is, as the original hitler well observed, a sort of sweat.
1594204;1483132192;asciilifeform;easily 1000x the sweat went to haskell.
1594205;1483132214;asciilifeform;(and 100,000x -- to rubyism and other unthinkable rubbish)
1594206;1483132222;mircea_popescu;but in any case - ethertard budget exceeded 50mn in 2016 ; and these are turkey dollars. this is more than the aggregate expenditure across all software branches in the united states in that year.
1594207;1483132241;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform mind that chickens do not sweat.
1594208;1483132250;mircea_popescu;nor dogs (except for their tongue).
1594209;1483132252;asciilifeform;academitards get paid in turkeydollar?! where?
1594210;1483132273;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the loss was extracted in the field of battle, and came as actual, isis-equipping dollars.
1594211;1483132290;mircea_popescu;the sort that pay for the bullets that cut holes in retarded us-born kids' heads.
1594212;1483132354;mircea_popescu;(to be perfectly clear - most of the eth budget went to propping the exchange rate, nothing else.)
1594213;1483133729;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-dont-the-dogs-get/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Don't the dogs get
1594214;1483134029;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: would that be in actual btc-that-usg-somehow-had ? or in 'could-have-hads' (riaa-style accounting..?)
1594215;1483134305;mircea_popescu;whence it comes is not really my concern, for all i know it is running a charity on mars for poor usian children.
1594216;1483134678;asciilifeform;imho actual moneys are in different conceptual category than coulda-shoulda-woulda-moneys, but perhaps that's just me.
1594217;1483134815;asciilifeform;in other lulz, latest visitors to my www, and then to nosuchlabs: employees of Wolfram Co.
1594218;1483134818;mircea_popescu;the dispositive criterion for the matter is the counterparty function.
1594219;1483134932;*;asciilifeform pictures herr wolfram reading the article about him, and going 'neinneinneinneiennein!1111, banging head'
1594220;1483135050;mircea_popescu;lol
1594221;1483135066;mircea_popescu;carefuly, you'll get unhappened.
1594222;1483135076;asciilifeform;but last i heard there's 300+ bodies in there
1594223;1483135082;asciilifeform;so not necessarily Herr Doktor
1594224;1483135104;asciilifeform;d00d has own cult, 'with blackjack! and hookerz!'
1594225;1483136151;mircea_popescu;there's worse fates.
1594226;1483136159;mircea_popescu;hopefully he doesn't decide to fuck any of the interns or anything.
1594227;1483136294;asciilifeform;and, unrelatedly, asciilifeform reluctantly admits that (american! early 2000s) 'cougar' game joystick is mighty fine. 1:1 sized replica of 'f16' controls, everything made from iron, even buttons. quite pleasantly surprising. almost like piece from different era, when even toys were made honestly.
1594228;1483136327;asciilifeform;historically accurate to the point of wtf -- even radio controls (what good are they in a sim?) are there.
1594229;1483136336;asciilifeform;thing shows up as ~three mice when plugged in!
1594230;1483136390;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i bet herr dokror w fucks baby pandas , and gets away with it.
1594231;1483136396;asciilifeform;he's that kind of 3111117 d00d.
1594232;1483136441;mircea_popescu;i've yet to find a hitler servant that fucked anything.
1594233;1483139115;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought that normally they fucked little chillenz or similar
1594234;1483139130;asciilifeform;(or, less commonly, household beasts)
1594235;1483139154;mircea_popescu;world of warcraft much more common.
1594236;1483139179;asciilifeform;that's for the young set
1594237;1483139196;asciilifeform;( 'supernumerary children' (tm) (r) ( mircea_popescu's articles ) )
1594238;1483139203;mircea_popescu;tjhe
1594239;1483139216;mircea_popescu;they're all supernumerary, and chyldren.
1594240;1483139231;mircea_popescu;chyldren lol. children
1594241;1483139305;asciilifeform;dyver∫e ∫orte∫ of chyldren!
1594242;1483139310;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-well-youre-welcome/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Well, you're welcome
1594243;1483139533;ben_vulpes;in other eurolols https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C12F4MM71q0
1594244;1483139550;mircea_popescu;are they adopting the india currency plan yet ?
1594245;1483139690;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: there is context, 'kindling' is the catchword in ru penal code for 'hatespeech' ('kindling discord between nations')
1594246;1483139718;mircea_popescu;so is this putin-supported or what ?
1594247;1483139739;asciilifeform;in this film, 'we will kindle, fuck you, we will kindle, they will knife us and we will live, lands of the ancestors, etc, etc'
1594248;1483139762;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not overtly.
1594249;1483139778;mircea_popescu;aha. seems pretty clunky.
1594250;1483139790;ben_vulpes;baaad videography
1594251;1483139820;mircea_popescu;what's with the horses anyway ? don't tell me the russkis think themselves don cossacks or somesuch.
1594252;1483139829;asciilifeform;nope
1594253;1483139831;asciilifeform;that'd be ukrs.
1594254;1483139836;mircea_popescu;irk?
1594255;1483139844;asciilifeform;horses are just generic positive picture.
1594256;1483139855;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-KpbX-6w8 << better clip on same theme.
1594257;1483139865;asciilifeform;^ 'it means that soon, war'
1594258;1483139879;*;asciilifeform has no ready translation , but imho ^ is 'best of genre'
1594259;1483139886;mircea_popescu;eh, war.
1594260;1483139918;mircea_popescu;they may butcher some random "foreign" dorks, especially if they're defenseless in an urban setting.
1594261;1483139920;asciilifeform;http://amdm.ru/akkordi/kontrrevolyciya/137409/eto_znachit_chto_skoro_voyna/ << lyrics.
1594262;1483139934;mircea_popescu;oh, counterrevolution no less.
1594263;1483139956;mircea_popescu;fucking tedium.
1594264;1483139957;asciilifeform;that was just the band's name.
1594265;1483139980;asciilifeform;'Если русский мужик в безысходности пьёт, / Если наглый джигит как добычу берёт / Дом отцовский его, и сестру, и жену — / Это значит, что нам объявили войну. / Это значит, что скоро война.' << sufficient sample.
1594266;1483140007;asciilifeform;anyway, mentioned strictly because ben_vulpes unearthed .
1594267;1483140025;asciilifeform;( i did not even know he spoke ru )
1594268;1483140373;ben_vulpes;don't
1594269;1483140387;asciilifeform;then how the fuck did you pick up this rubbish
1594270;1483140396;*;ben_vulpes wiggles eyebrows
1594271;1483140396;asciilifeform;stuck to your shoe?
1594272;1483140426;mircea_popescu;he's added a third to his harem, she came in the mail.
1594273;1483140440;mircea_popescu;i mean, she arrived in the mail. she came everywhere else.
1594274;1483140447;asciilifeform;ah then! then.
1594275;1483140451;ben_vulpes;never seen anything like it in my life
1594276;1483140457;mircea_popescu;get out of here ?!
1594277;1483140476;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: these 'motherland cried TO US, HER SAVIOURS!' clips are a dime a dozen.
1594278;1483140483;asciilifeform;as mircea_popescu correctly said -- snoar
1594279;1483140486;mircea_popescu;wtf do you do all day in cascadia, not buying drinks for artistic adolescents ? what is their life work, not this crapolade ?
1594280;1483140519;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: buying drinks is one thing, girl soaking everything in sight less common
1594281;1483140536;mircea_popescu;this is why you get a russian, gets the soak done.
1594282;1483140998;asciilifeform;!#s zcash
1594283;1483140998;a111;17 results for "zcash", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=zcash
1594284;1483141011;asciilifeform;http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/computing/networks/the-crazy-security-behind-the-birth-of-zcash << quality circus material, via jurov  .
1594285;1483141022;ben_vulpes;that's the one with the magic secret data that peter todd nominally destroyed?
1594286;1483141026;asciilifeform;aha, that one
1594287;1483141043;asciilifeform;with great fires! and lights! and mega-persuasive camera crews!
1594288;1483141047;asciilifeform;and audience!
1594289;1483141048;asciilifeform;etc
1594290;1483141057;ben_vulpes;so trust
1594291;1483141074;ben_vulpes;moon landing of cryptocurrencies
1594292;1483141088;asciilifeform;wtc-burning of currencies
1594293;1483141113;ben_vulpes;ooh ooh or the ruskies who burnt hundies on camera for the transfer back to us treasury!
1594294;1483141120;asciilifeform;or them
1594295;1483141128;asciilifeform;no shortage of these
1594296;1483141145;asciilifeform;or the jew from mircea_popescu's old tale, who dropped a cheque into a grave
1594297;1483141151;asciilifeform;and asked for change
1594298;1483141247;mats;http://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-working7318 kinda old news, but for future reference, CIWS and such appears to be 90% propaganda 10% effectiveness
1594299;1483141271;mats;idk about the claims re: rocketry but the insurance bit looks credible
1594300;1483141342;mats;which has yet to be explained by .is even now
1594301;1483141362;asciilifeform;mats: iirc thing ~worked against primitive (17th c.-style, unaimed) handmade orc rockets
1594302;1483141535;ben_vulpes;can't exactly light the computer-controlled machine gun off at inbound targets over heavily populated areas
1594303;1483141622;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: thing used small rockets, neh ?
1594304;1483141625;asciilifeform;rather than cannon
1594305;1483141631;asciilifeform;the kind with autodestructors
1594306;1483141708;mats;yes, there is a proximity fuse that disperses shrapnel
1594307;1483141727;mircea_popescu;hey, they didn't say steel dome yes ? iron, sorta-worx.
1594308;1483141749;mircea_popescu;"modern" warfare, like modern everything, is 90% gargle and posturing.
1594309;1483141764;mats;seeing as how hamas is mobile and the dome is static, i don't see how it could possibly work 9/10 times like .is claims
1594310;1483141772;mircea_popescu;who knows, maybe enemy is composed of sufficient % of modern folks, the sort that live life of the mind, and believes.
1594311;1483141841;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what i mean to say is that it's about the only thing one could deploy around that many folks, is something that goes blooie in the air rather than a zillion rather-fast bullets most of which will come back down at lethal speeds
1594312;1483141844;asciilifeform;or at the very least get the disbelievers into that one spot where the old machines work, and shred'em
1594313;1483141914;ben_vulpes;the only actual anti-rocketry defense being "don't be anywhere near targets of interest"
1594314;1483141923;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nah
1594315;1483141929;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the actual defense is 'kill'em all'
1594316;1483141936;asciilifeform;'then salt the earth'
1594317;1483141952;ben_vulpes;amusingly, .is actually wrote the book on rocketry-resistant fleets. turns out -- many small boats. hard to do that with the holy tent.
1594318;1483142011;ben_vulpes;mats: does the dome at least handle steep ballistics decently?
1594319;1483142032;ben_vulpes;eg mortars, that anti-ship device that pops up and comes right back down
1594320;1483142100;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes "many small boats" is shit for unrelated reasons.
1594321;1483142149;ben_vulpes;wyrdmantis: ffs get a bouncer
1594322;1483142163;ben_vulpes;i don't want to hear about your laptop status omg
1594323;1483142167;mats;ben_vulpes: i expect iron dome actually only works effectively against mortar rounds
1594324;1483142173;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: often i wonder what the remoras are even doing in #t. why can't they read l0gz like normal peoples.
1594325;1483142216;ben_vulpes;heh
1594326;1483142223;mats;if only usg published c-ram data from iraq
1594327;1483142237;mircea_popescu;ahaha don't be ridiculous.
1594328;1483142252;ben_vulpes;mats: usg and data in the same sentence, hyuuu
1594329;1483142271;mircea_popescu;they can start with the m3, any time they grow a pair.
1594330;1483142282;ben_vulpes;i was making an m3 joke too! cool!
1594331;1483142294;ben_vulpes;howabout u6
1594332;1483142321;ben_vulpes;anyways, tty'alll
1594333;1483142340;asciilifeform;m3?
1594334;1483142396;mircea_popescu;monetary mass.
1594335;1483142409;asciilifeform;aaah
1594336;1483142424;mircea_popescu;anyone happen to recall the trilema article in which i explain it's a fucking stupid idea to shoehorn female sexual choice into a source of male hierarchy because it puts all sorts of problems in the lap of young sluts they have nfi how to resolve ?
1594337;1483142447;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-30#778096
1594338;1483142447;a111;Logged on 2014-07-30 13:57 asciilifeform: g: 'show me the real budget.' a: 'you're asking too much. that's off limits to you.'
1594339;1483142454;asciilifeform;(re previous)
1594340;1483142464;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yes! 1s
1594341;1483142477;mircea_popescu;god i love you.
1594342;1483142765;asciilifeform;it was in the piece about 'creepiness'
1594343;1483142770;asciilifeform;(google is, as usual, unhelpful)
1594344;1483142799;asciilifeform;the one where 'chick is unsure whether she is being used as a woman, or as poke chip in a hidden casino'
1594345;1483142805;asciilifeform;something to this effect.
1594346;1483142824;mircea_popescu;something yes
1594347;1483142857;asciilifeform;iirc it was also a commentary on a tlp piece.
1594348;1483142877;asciilifeform;google 'site:trilema tlp' interestingly returns zip!
1594349;1483143046;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2013/the-ungiven-fucks-a-modern-bedtime-story/#comment-94025 unrelated stuff dug up.
1594350;1483143087;mod6;are you talking about the one where the intellectual creepy geek posts the ad for the girls?
1594351;1483143127;mod6;http://trilema.com/2013/the-23-yo-intellectual/
1594352;1483143133;*;asciilifeform bbl, new tyres
1594353;1483143176;mircea_popescu;nah it's lengthy and textual
1594354;1483143236;mod6;ah. i did like the butts in there tho :]
1594355;1483143244;mircea_popescu;:p
1594356;1483143251;mircea_popescu;me too!
1594357;1483143819;mircea_popescu;oh found it. and the reason google doesn't turn up is probably "artificial intelligence". http://trilema.com/2014/consent-is-a-myth-lets-see-how-it-came-to-be/
1594358;1483144326;mod6;heheh. nice.
1594359;1483147203;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-the-house-is-just-as/ << Trilema - Disgrace - The house is just as
1594360;1483148748;mod6;Update: Cleanup, and construction of new automated tests to provide functional test coverage for V-99994 is now underway.
1594361;1483149317;trinque;neato mod6
1594362;1483150713;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/498AD9BAB3F9DC1A4B7BD6D8FC74A41B4491DE989178D1ADC0A0F31CBF2C6E42 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1172...9339 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.116.31.251 (ssh-rsa key from 201.116.31.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static.customer-201-116-31-251.uninet-ide.com.mx. MX)
1594363;1483150713;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/84656B7F29912D197BEE292E283B6DF797035CB66ABD23B9B626F5F020E6C53D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6966...3413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '108.166.144.37 (ssh-rsa key from 108.166.144.37 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (108-166-144-37.client.mchsi.com. US IL)
1594364;1483150714;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1E261FCF04CFC3435CE00E1F39D1C2F153716DAFEB15474D4A7FB378624BA8CF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1487...9417 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Ruediger Brill <BRI...DE>; ' (broadband-109-173-21-64.nationalcablenetworks.ru. Unknown)
1594365;1483150714;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3166B25FF51803883F3D992BF5E7D7CFF3D252C11EAA4B45CCA99F021B36D93A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1256...5833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'CERT Canada <cer...ca>; ' (broadband-109-173-21-64.nationalcablenetworks.ru. Unknown)
1594366;1483150714;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5C0133D00F4010B34DC83543007A2856300E7CDE1BFF5BCE4869E77EEF76FDA8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9799...1301 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Alexander Rudolf <A_R...om>; Alexander Rudolf <ale...de>; ' (broadband-109-173-21-64.nationalcablenetworks.ru. Unknown)
1594367;1483150714;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65F9A66A958A113AF07A5EC4936F2CBBBFD9F37174796CFB87EADDBA2486B8D4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5636...6661 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.173.21.64 (ssh-rsa key from 109.173.21.64 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (broadband-109-173-21-64.nationalcablenetworks.ru. RU)
1594368;1483150715;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF82634C08A3D66F7138051865ED5E573523F21E857CA9B1DF45E5A7219362C0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1102...9191 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '76.76.33.89 (ssh-rsa key from 76.76.33.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (tol-76-76-33-89.wls.metalink.net. US OH)
1594369;1483150715;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4A7D2C2219D1EED60AE1DEFE0C738CC9AC43C8CA049A0A8A9EE43126ECAEA31C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6945...0163 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '186.232.158.184 (ssh-rsa key from 186.232.158.184 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BR)
1594370;1483151032;mircea_popescu;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1E261FCF04CFC3435CE00E1F39D1C2F153716DAFEB15474D4A7FB378624BA8CF << lolk wait, the entire modulus being a factor in others doesn't make this phuctiored does it ?
1594371;1483151035;mircea_popescu;but lulzy af.
1594372;1483151494;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F3817ECE468E6E058880707B5DDD183A50F1EAA28D87417D43D13E75F4DEF256 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'John Napp <joh...om>; John Christopher Napp <joh...om>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594373;1483151494;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BC4ABEF11E1CDD5388467ED4AA132904D2FBFB0D28D820941A1A83B81BBD2E1D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Paul Karrer <p.k...at>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594374;1483151494;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/01242DCED832B429633FEE0CE9B056C695BBF80CA513619A2CA3AA895AC4735F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Apple Product Security <pro...om>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594375;1483151494;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0A8E8A26D309CBC4A73BD31E3D6C6AE49AB443FA58E2A9A823BAA868189AB6A5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'FAKE: key generation test; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594376;1483151494;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E6D97CF282E315DAD180DA944174DB051FBDFE4AF4E229BD6E779EE74E7A65A8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'mat....com <mat...om>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594377;1483151494;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/252C1C8978B421B3DF75723F9996EAA1D010289EAEB5D72D3CADDD08D174A321 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Martijn van Brummelen (25-08-1982) <mar...nl>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594378;1483151495;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/06BCEBCE7AEEAFCB28FFC320C28F668387DF9D31BE7FF7B2027D404A4CF931C8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6764...8273 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.102.153.21 (ssh-rsa key from 62.102.153.21 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. IT)
1594379;1483151495;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0EC2595B3A73D6A0E4E6FADA533889C908187FAF397A6D09DB6E0748891CB69D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'ich...b.de <ich...de>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594380;1483151496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/59193035CE75C92A2701BAE7930E75D22B2743E84765E63D4CDE48B39EB04247 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Enrico Zini <enr...rg>; Enrico Zini <enr...it>; Enrico Zini <enr...om>; Enrico Zini <enr...rg>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594381;1483151496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/308C79ED32BB1D28E5F59EC4ADB2E56B1ED16614D3B4C737238FC3D169AF94B0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Robert J. Hansen; Robert J. Hansen <rjh...rg>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594382;1483151497;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/403ADCADE94C1040C399D0ADBF2FB49D66B5C1265718AC90EDDF2906C904DF37 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Brian McDonald <brianm@ou.edu>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594383;1483151497;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3C16E916A1B9000F42AEA3C5B8543948091513B10CCC520BF05F8AE73C466B3A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'addyGIRL <add...et>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594384;1483151498;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/98E64FB1ABF7C775990A4AA54D1343054420514921F489B3D4C670EFCB3CD2C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Tim Fiedler <tfc...om>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594385;1483151498;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BC3860B1F474ECBA8A5E4B3EE68EC611E2A60731994E56C22070EC864766D4A6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Ben Donnachie <ben...om>; Ben Donnachie <ben...om>; Ben Donnachie <bd3...uk>; Benjamin Donnachie <ben...uk>; Ben Donnachie <ben...rg>; Ben Donnachie <ben...om>; Benjamin Donnachie <ben...om>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594386;1483151499;trinque;damn!!!
1594387;1483151499;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/320074624769C4288C4D85636555E72FA35CEF0F542A2481AF3BC98F17C1C6E3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Jonata Jose da Silva (Seguranca) <jon...om>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594388;1483151499;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EE6E84ED0485E5C4615D47E7BF518A35F1A8DE60C6DFBBF1F60B1911839726CE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.14.248.152 (ssh-rsa key from 85.14.248.152 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. DE)
1594389;1483151500;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3EBBA6727EC0231B8AC7B56EE2EF87BFE362D2D5C77191FFEE65EEDA7CE58C45 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Rodrigo Duarte Lopez (Chave utilizada na aula de seguranca de computacao) <lop...br>; ' (Unknown Unknown MG)
1594390;1483151500;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D627EA65B018A2F76F0EC315001DC8996BC8E55CD16AD0C1A3A471CFBE47F0C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7794...1361 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Nikomu Never <pep...sk>; Nikomu Never <nik...ru>; Nikomu Never <pep...rg>; ' (Unknown Unknown MG)
1594391;1483151501;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A99CD8AAAA2A10B27B3D8B787B85B64A10E9CE20BC758264133C762A0D02AC97 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2188...2309 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'RastaFarri <000...om>; ' (Unknown Unknown MG)
1594392;1483151501;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BA916DB9A3FF2115770A1E0C4F9CB881AF5385C8BFC5BFA2C30245A73A724BD5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...2049 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'SWT Bookstore <htt...u/>; ' (Unknown Unknown MG)
1594393;1483151502;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/62F1BBA6145B5EE165675C08653CB05E6994892AD7572BFC62DD5FAE10355FEF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9743...2163 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '131.100.191.1 (ssh-rsa key from 131.100.191.1 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BR MG)
1594394;1483151765;mod6;holy shit
1594395;1483151892;mod6;nice
1594396;1483151961;asciilifeform;Nikomu Never  << lol!!!
1594397;1483151993;asciilifeform;'to-nobody never'
1594398;1483152045;asciilifeform;btw if it wasn't obvious,
1594399;1483152060;asciilifeform;i put classic 8ball back in rotation
1594400;1483152080;asciilifeform;weekly.
1594401;1483152124;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-the-sign-outside-the-clinic/ << Trilema - Disgrace - The sign outside the clinic
1594402;1483152328;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594374 << trololol!
1594403;1483152328;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 02:31 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/01242DCED832B429633FEE0CE9B056C695BBF80CA513619A2CA3AA895AC4735F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Apple Product Security <pro...om>; ' (host-21-153-102-62.net.admmax.net. Unknown)
1594404;1483152454;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594381 << another oldie wine in new bottle!
1594405;1483152454;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 02:31 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/308C79ED32BB1D28E5F59EC4ADB2E56B1ED16614D3B4C737238FC3D169AF94B0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Robert J. Hansen; Robert J. Hansen <rjh...rg>; ' (al108.albit.servdiscount-customer.com. Unknown)
1594406;1483152471;asciilifeform;does everyone see what this is?
1594407;1483152485;asciilifeform;i have nfi who, or why.
1594408;1483152634;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/623AE5DE55F387328CE28BDDEBBB819E38A09A14C1716AD8CF6585C818424578 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6595...9881 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.53.197.211 (ssh-rsa key from 177.53.197.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (211-197-53-177.globotechtelecom.com.br. BR)
1594409;1483152634;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2A899AF1ED0A7C5A844349AC18E25B1015E365D18BEDDEB260380F09279D9B1C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1676...3393 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '146.192.82.40 (ssh-rsa key from 146.192.82.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ftpedi3.edbasa.com. NO)
1594410;1483152634;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A36462DFD9CB3D0A38B86C56912D29402B0CD5D4C079585CE9A639A683B1FA11 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1229...0643 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Belisario <ltn...es>; ' (host95-175-200-78.ipv4.regusnet.com. Unknown KEN ENG)
1594411;1483152634;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9B805999E2061BAF7598E956E7232FAFA443E35EE788DB19B8553246E846AA71 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1503...9557 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Jeff <k3alt@aol.com>; ' (host95-175-200-78.ipv4.regusnet.com. Unknown KEN ENG)
1594412;1483152634;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/46790390870F9BF06EFDAFA7775252BF3A624860FC213FBC7607368714D74E09 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1466...2189 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.175.200.78 (ssh-rsa key from 95.175.200.78 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host95-175-200-78.ipv4.regusnet.com. GB KEN ENG)
1594413;1483152634;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BEF291D26540CEEC3FAEA379C29C762C208539B86EBFF9DE1646C351AD49CD4A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1966...0161 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '204.14.17.72 (ssh-rsa key from 204.14.17.72 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA ON)
1594414;1483152635;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6577ED38F1DD66C1E100E13F26112938B08058353EB76B54D6FFB1786D58BBEB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1103...7397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Kendra Henning <khe...du>; ' (cuboid.biostr.washington.edu. Unknown WA)
1594415;1483152635;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9F718A43CAEDD44408611BB7F8A0324AEA7F631040F41F7E982347A34BD7C1FA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7420...6071 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Securikey <rob...om>; ' (cuboid.biostr.washington.edu. Unknown WA)
1594416;1483152636;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2087DBEC20D8515F85D33D974BF8C2F423F6D2802699A07A3A25DFEC2D41F0D3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1360...9399 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Carl Wilson <car...et>; ' (cuboid.biostr.washington.edu. Unknown WA)
1594417;1483152636;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D76E773CEDC88786C3246F2EF7075420C7C630A99DA43C7A45F22F8FDB935A87 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1215...3701 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '140.142.232.75 (ssh-rsa key from 140.142.232.75 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cuboid.biostr.washington.edu. US WA)
1594418;1483152711;trinque;asciilifeform: cannot pull up pages on the site atm
1594419;1483152719;trinque;must be cranking on phuctoring
1594420;1483152784;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F2AF6B0B4634AC638FEFCFA29A026C10CDBDBC9C498AA0D51E44DD15C4CF7343 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1642...7879 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Launchpad PPA for UremixTeam; ' (211-197-53-177.globotechtelecom.com.br. Unknown)
1594421;1483153834;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E2D1FDEDA6F5389F544730552101CC6149DF144A32E5DED97A7B0BEEA5F6428D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1340...1313 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Chris Underhill <cju...uk>; ' (ec2-52-7-151-127.compute-1.amazonaws.com. Unknown DE)
1594422;1483153834;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4C71FBBFB060DB478E17424B66C3E86B26B7B3DFE0A8D8398AB98D3AECF434E5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2935...0891 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '52.7.151.127 (ssh-rsa key from 52.7.151.127 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ec2-52-7-151-127.compute-1.amazonaws.com. US DE)
1594423;1483153954;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B0554C21EE72E51F42E162BFA41B1FCB75F722A9D769AEA1AC866095B47DD276 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1081...0413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Martin Svenningsson <emm...rg>; Martin 'EmmEss' Svenningsson - SIGNING KEY; Martin 'EmmEss' Svenningsson - SIGNING KEY <emm...rg>; ' (ec2-52-7-151-127.compute-1.amazonaws.com. Unknown DE)
1594424;1483154044;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0D4F3B54D84D767DD552A7CED67BB11861828094A3999406C0362CAD2FA8551 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7259...0127 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.112.9.244 (ssh-rsa key from 188.112.9.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (188-112-9-244.net.hawetelekom.pl. PL)
1594425;1483154506;trinque;know what, those reverse dns and geolocation lookups shouldn't even be on the gpg keys, and I don't see yet what it's matching in them.
1594426;1483154508;trinque;whoops!
1594427;1483154513;*;trinque tapes in another if statement
1594428;1483154552;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: imma host this thing for you, k?
1594429;1483154584;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6E085B85F31328EE79455CB79A4D1BDB780967C1AA77E323BBD01667DED4495F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1305...1277 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Bob Kummerfeld <bob...au>; Bob Kummerfeld <bob...au>; ' (Unknown Unknown CA)
1594430;1483154585;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF624F70EF0E25FEDD7001E618D69D175990E1857E0E1CFA6FB48B9BEA646A41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1015...0977 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Travis C Furrer <fur...du>; ' (Unknown Unknown CA)
1594431;1483154585;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6089AC9DB719B48098669EA9432B2148E0897D80BA2581276516032D083A879F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2703...3219 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '45.55.100.209 (ssh-rsa key from 45.55.100.209 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CA)
1594432;1483154585;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/94C09EDF3664F3C7D763209ABA3F8B46AF6CD7D91C8B27D128ED28868DA028EA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1381...2521 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '194.44.202.34 (ssh-rsa key from 194.44.202.34 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
1594433;1483154585;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3FE2948410A538AD3196C12643428EEAC6A58584F642220D0E9297A2F49284BD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1109...1517 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Kyotaro HORIGUCHI <hor...jp>; ' (Unknown Unknown)
1594434;1483154585;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E4D85AD405DC9E44430A0EC6A03B48540AAD3A50203B473F96E20C3EB18A224E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 8283...5163 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'J RW <jrw@posteo.de>; ' (Unknown Unknown)
1594435;1483154586;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/236A9F359502536F0681A86B5E7A212A4FE9387FE5A34662C047A78A8B568392 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1233...5043 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Steffen Greiner <sg@...de>; ' (Unknown Unknown)
1594436;1483154586;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/67B702E55DB975D24BC2FFBEAD2E6CFBF2FD70C26F68153BB85594C22F76F429 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1244...7893 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.250.45.136 (ssh-rsa key from 87.250.45.136 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RS)
1594437;1483154587;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/10DEB9D3CD8D13ABE20D7E03CC1284A363BA0A401B646858B2573AA40E008D0C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6076...7517 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.16.39.120 (ssh-rsa key from 84.16.39.120 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (135168.ds.3pp.slovanet.sk. SK PV)
1594438;1483154587;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4687FD0C8B64EF7DC9D3A01C18B9E2534A94EDCA60D77432C6F9E595A1C757D9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1210...4339 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.175.96.164 (ssh-rsa key from 85.175.96.164 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
1594439;1483154686;asciilifeform;thing is utterly hose
1594440;1483154687;asciilifeform;d
1594441;1483154692;asciilifeform;for the reasons discussed earlier today.
1594442;1483154724;trinque;nbd
1594443;1483154727;trinque;was just curious!
1594444;1483154740;trinque;I switched the lookups to only ones concerning ssh keys
1594445;1483154748;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF624F70EF0E25FEDD7001E618D69D175990E1857E0E1CFA6FB48B9BEA646A41 << who the fuck is that
1594446;1483154762;asciilifeform;and where was this pop when i first ran 8ball
1594447;1483154764;asciilifeform;i still have nfi
1594448;1483154792;asciilifeform;!#s furrer
1594449;1483154793;a111;1 result for "furrer", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=furrer
1594450;1483154815;asciilifeform;nuts.
1594451;1483154824;asciilifeform;or nm, not an 8ballism
1594452;1483154878;asciilifeform;!#s 1015..
1594453;1483154879;a111;1 result for "1015..", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=1015..
1594454;1483154888;asciilifeform;now ~that~'s strange.
1594455;1483154902;asciilifeform;maybe other one is still churning, in the pipe.
1594456;1483154939;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3FE2948410A538AD3196C12643428EEAC6A58584F642220D0E9297A2F49284BD << another similar.
1594457;1483154980;asciilifeform;^ not a valid gpg key for some reason, though not flipolade.
1594458;1483155019;asciilifeform;^ key circa 1998, so it claims.
1594459;1483155029;asciilifeform;and! revoked. hence 'invalid'
1594460;1483155040;asciilifeform;idiot kochism.
1594461;1483155049;ben_vulpes;how does phuctor know the key's been revoked?
1594462;1483155051;asciilifeform;i'll import revokes if i want to , motherfucker
1594463;1483155054;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it doesn't!
1594464;1483155057;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: gpg does.
1594465;1483155068;asciilifeform;because sks gave it to us with a revoke cert glued on.
1594466;1483155069;ben_vulpes;how does your gpg know it's been revoked
1594467;1483155072;ben_vulpes;ah
1594468;1483155081;asciilifeform;pgpdump -i turd.asc
1594469;1483155083;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes ^
1594470;1483155099;*;ben_vulpes juggling own turds
1594471;1483155113;ben_vulpes;wait is phuctor serving pages or not
1594472;1483155153;asciilifeform;it is -- for now
1594473;1483155155;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/03E9E737EA9BACC6CBBDAC2B33EB904C0AB9893F378ECB605F36026F18024050 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.248 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.248 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594474;1483155155;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FFBB0B3B752EDDDF0D993A3788810F673FF083751921990674A4AE94ADFE80B4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.170 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.170 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594475;1483155155;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DD202D5A2EA79474BBA43F4D6CDB7D3907AD59FAB3CAB73E3CA829ACB303949C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.201 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.201 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594476;1483155155;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D0FEB92C76D6BE8C12EAF8559C6CA0B20601BEB66AB22D843D27C5A18FCA4C86 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.218 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.218 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594477;1483155155;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1ECB7624B5F69C616279CB8E2F5EDAC05154E310ECC02E6071FC41D6450198E6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.191 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594478;1483155155;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A0A036F1182B194C3739AF871C3742E93A520677721D5EE6805A882E81A37FA6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.230 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.230 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594479;1483155156;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E4BA0F1ED824E7E6987C931F74ED83CD76D62C013055B4779A9C34930AB471BA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.141 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.141 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594480;1483155156;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1FABC3D60BC6631B0138217E5FE46DCB3A57376268236EA41700362E2A6E0FF1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.151 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.151 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594481;1483155157;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A6A854788DD5C0E08DAC566F02A5C78733A9CE2ADD8FC6D52238DCFAA415DD0F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.164 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.164 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594482;1483155157;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28D9B741077B733666580C20FF08B5900D478FD4DA514FBA3E6A52437F0707E8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.229 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.229 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594483;1483155158;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A908ACDE193F3FA25F2ACAEFD357D9CED6A4916975991DC6A48D6DC5111F6D46 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.251 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594484;1483155158;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/30EF9395C601C39E5384F2C5C93825EDDAC686D496882885AEDB2C06D982F2AB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.193 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.193 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594485;1483155159;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1E3629D9C8B05AA14329337562723210B64ED995DE28555F487FF8D966EA077B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.233 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.233 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594486;1483155159;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/53DAEE4EC9906F918D8D9790FD22A5569CB0FD7E9F083B7B5821FE2BECFAD772 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.187 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.187 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594487;1483155160;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9078A81564C033DA6B561091C158E7D8AA6956D55FBFCD27E07152C607E34E5B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...5477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.165.69.148 (ssh-rsa key from 188.165.69.148 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
1594488;1483155160;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/69466E1434D2F16B48674A7F249EA8E4D6BB9D1D4B38809D5BF71713091B13A9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7828...8083 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '8.34.97.76 (ssh-rsa key from 8.34.97.76 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (customer-ip-8-34-97-76.widerangebroadband.net. US NE)
1594489;1483155161;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/08694C3DE772366136678ED176C3D70AC271795F0AA3FE459EC0DF9228143494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5450...1471 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '122.193.183.121 (ssh-rsa key from 122.193.183.121 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 32)
1594490;1483155161;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9708EC793A0399E5F2E52939A1B713075CB2BD6A127F397B1E746068B35FFAB0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3255...3699 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.139.48.63 (ssh-rsa key from 185.139.48.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1594491;1483155162;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/15EC7D9B468584EFB13C93C83D01EC446F968BB6ACC338D38CD442E6D4A2BE19 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7774...9491 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.92.55.84 (ssh-rsa key from 85.92.55.84 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (55-84-ka.inext.cz. CZ ZL 724)
1594492;1483155162;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FEBD9E1EF92F941096B903C6B004A7B10A7D3C95B744FB77D6B4277A94DEB022 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9231599251580331947525184474191077277887848594966055934140773968251539869403785298064810021931490982879083796399871581916993433279324286892528639285224009 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Stefan Pip <stefan.pip@cww.de>; Stefan Pip <100272.3421@compuserve.com>; '
1594493;1483155163;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/247301844D0E98060662E7F8702037B418E584539EC291F6EE5262B3030F1B5F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 4528...2153 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.41.176.6 (ssh-rsa key from 185.41.176.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SI)
1594494;1483155164;ben_vulpes;*jackpot*
1594495;1483155167;asciilifeform;holy hell
1594496;1483155182;ben_vulpes;just out of curiosity, asciilifeform, why is key download...a submit button?
1594497;1483155192;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: because i wrote it as one
1594498;1483155198;asciilifeform;i am not a wwwist
1594499;1483155220;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D9225CD339418E5B2A7BC9AAF244AD1C6696D1FC89B5B21EC522385ECC4E9827 << lel
1594500;1483155237;asciilifeform;btw i think it has outpaced deedbot
1594501;1483155240;trinque;compuserve!
1594502;1483155255;asciilifeform;'Daniel T. Poirot <poirot@jsc.nasa.gov>'
1594503;1483155381;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594370 << no, it is a peculiar bug, that i will fix as soon as current packet terminates. though strangely enough every single instance of it to date resulted in a validly phuctured (factors smaller than self) modulus eventually
1594504;1483155381;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 02:23 mircea_popescu: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1E261FCF04CFC3435CE00E1F39D1C2F153716DAFEB15474D4A7FB378624BA8CF << lolk wait, the entire modulus being a factor in others doesn't make this phuctiored does it ?
1594505;1483155472;trinque;evening gabriel_laddel_p
1594506;1483155475;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: it is already hosted
1594507;1483155475;gabriel_laddel_p;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592490
1594508;1483155475;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 04:08 gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bznn0f9Mk3KASFhrSDRkU1NuNHc
1594509;1483155484;*;trinque watches
1594510;1483155485;gabriel_laddel_p;I just need to know that you've decrypted and watched it
1594511;1483155492;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: only he can view it
1594512;1483155495;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p why is your ad crypted
1594513;1483155521;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: because I've already had a legion of idiots (#clim) show up when I show off masamune in public.
1594514;1483155522;ben_vulpes;for some reason my child is motoring about
1594515;1483155535;ben_vulpes;but anything with google in the dns is not hosted what madness are you spouting
1594516;1483155537;ben_vulpes;bbl
1594517;1483155542;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: ack
1594518;1483155557;ben_vulpes;decrypted and viewed, imma host it for you. decrypted.
1594519;1483155561;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: and what, idiots send you dead weasels instead of money ?
1594520;1483155605;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: I've things to do today, bbl with well-formed thoughts and details.
1594521;1483155613;asciilifeform;aite
1594522;1483155617;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: also, please don't host that anywhere
1594523;1483155629;gabriel_laddel_p;or let anyone aside from ascii & MP view
1594524;1483155637;ben_vulpes;dog
1594525;1483155654;gabriel_laddel_p;bark?
1594526;1483155661;ben_vulpes;why you insist on unloading into your own foot is /beyond/ me
1594527;1483155665;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0B4D06BFC58A8907234D36DDEDFAE0E0CEC05ACD885AA1F67E195C727CDC1B4D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1537...0989 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '209.160.217.34 (ssh-rsa key from 209.160.217.34 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-209-160-217-34.customer.veroxity.net. US MA)
1594528;1483155665;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6D80DF0C7B0CD7977585CD186BA42AEF1EB1B66D932F8BD27F0E20614F9DA8CA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5241...9673 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '70.27.176.178 (ssh-rsa key from 70.27.176.178 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ckvlon1747w-lp130-04-70-27-176-178.dsl.bell.ca. CA ON)
1594529;1483155665;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3B8B3C376747A3D0CB86F2E5A373A2C46E9B9444F4E7FE56A2A3CA64F3C5B36C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1325...2413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '61.187.182.188 (ssh-rsa key from 61.187.182.188 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 43)
1594530;1483155665;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/571B70894556AB00C711D29934D226642DB706E347F4ADE110A970303C47CF9F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9475...2577 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.32.19.52 (ssh-rsa key from 5.32.19.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown AE)
1594531;1483155665;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28483B94EC5DE8506A75347A6B040804AC7C039D7D388AC6F7E3393611E9DBF5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 8272...1271 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '192.254.103.165 (ssh-rsa key from 192.254.103.165 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown PR)
1594532;1483155665;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D4D81A6A04969FAB3D4683F4229478E69233DF532D6988C0A81483C64F17DC69 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 8039...8179 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.48.33.219 (ssh-rsa key from 80.48.33.219 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown PL)
1594533;1483155666;asciilifeform;folx brace yerselves
1594534;1483155666;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E47B199AB44432737FA574B7505D6622C63096D6A1A7B7B264308DB1178FAEA4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2625...6257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '153.122.25.67 (ssh-rsa key from 153.122.25.67 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (co.ptr80.public.gmocloud.com. JP 13)
1594535;1483155666;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/716F104DE12570C1D051F8049523EEDAA8D47FCCD02684FA39F6D5195D19AF5B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 158161197688282404266589199093155356158231360486064302830002486996559425772341426214919935746161740648162591831732004725927667501734019258055642223134161436885155670665711908521151482051820078127967700721621360391955139067970256923219407085928510164703591357890043350713139565261536136264515972687535853862929 divides RS
1594536;1483155667;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4C727B9F2FAC3E6F86C401425F474B90A47E17C65A2ED91EBC067E4264FDE0CC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 129418251998521073800686961868745831660742273657599307244008640826219089220872547302413219226146485899918026930166646963741338891265541801896351937683366828956012612411441155458854525857155605114243255937727446838272537012098564363373936513301168109077612733080862047851563270384671586702237064525787713417337 divides RS
1594537;1483155667;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F49A7A2D796482434C624A403FEA9250B56FBAA8818F3B5141D41B540F6D08F7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5814...5011 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '146.20.69.7 (ssh-rsa key from 146.20.69.7 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US PA)
1594538;1483155672;trinque;ahaha the timing of that ben_vulpes
1594539;1483155697;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: is this about hosting on google?
1594540;1483155714;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: if so, whatever, I'll have plenty of money soon enough, for now: will do what must be done.
1594541;1483155724;ben_vulpes;i have utterly nfi why you want it held tightly
1594542;1483155727;asciilifeform;trinque: btw i learned what hoses the box. it's the mandatory arhive.today'ing
1594543;1483155764;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: it is 14 min long, go, watch the whole thing, think about it for a bit and get back to me.
1594544;1483155768;trinque;asciilifeform: oh? getting munched by the archive bot
1594545;1483155773;asciilifeform;aha
1594546;1483155777;asciilifeform;not that it doesn't need doing.
1594547;1483155787;asciilifeform;but it does mean that nobody else gets to read, for a spell.
1594548;1483155789;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: i saw a few names and project details, figured they were placeholder content
1594549;1483155818;ben_vulpes;look put a proper promotional video together you'd be happy to see in public
1594550;1483155820;ben_vulpes;that was ~it
1594551;1483155828;asciilifeform;John Doe (the Tester) <testing@mailbolt.com>; << lel
1594552;1483155876;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw i watched it before pinging you, nevertheless
1594553;1483155912;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: seriously the cryptic theatrics grate
1594554;1483155924;asciilifeform;^
1594555;1483156017;ben_vulpes;imma leave phuctor to stuff the log, kid is awake and i'm going to squeeze a skosh more dopamine out of the evening
1594556;1483156175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E29AE8721E784D102F3C73D78CBFF801C316914B87BAC56000B2365839B905CE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 132318223014850453224275235741137968939913004059732938882949357589071426726367231323576816047030591435763617666604537215693402777950276727404731416680437765139289338127259577156340455489533541814690931753269348426587839390868723240981782859042430192832326740050653833498308762360090320475474458152496150646677 divides RS
1594557;1483156175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/77A563A9758E989C77663A1E933EE4D3D41108370C6B72108CF9F38418F193E9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1151...6271 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.62.40.106 (ssh-rsa key from 66.62.40.106 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CO)
1594558;1483156175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CC3C056D9E3C86648BE537C037BE5B9F4293CB6267C0CC26318B604AC87DD7F6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1151...6271 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '209.234.157.26 (ssh-rsa key from 209.234.157.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CA)
1594559;1483156175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1F434D6E7BEB88EFE360DFC0A32A1255C1793553337455770148E98FECA4483 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 8419...5627 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.120.90.80 (ssh-rsa key from 187.120.90.80 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (187-120-90-80.ssp-wr.mastercabo.com.br. BR)
1594560;1483156175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5F3DE82805AA5537A76341E12BF977047CE4F0844255A749E2FA2840F93C5D6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9639074914748756359261964555591819481953087616553067376855767675046603446538174783876439115680555627997878355838873872043592413846909092535731387520065387 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Torsten Ackemann <ta@apex.central.de>; '
1594561;1483156175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0AE2CF205852CD96C3BF36D46514213079B4592B667F87146AEB8C4C94B76D2F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6976...2123 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '179.189.46.206 (ssh-rsa key from 179.189.46.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (179-189-46-206.7brasiltelecom.com.br. BR)
1594562;1483156176;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/497F48686E19E7FCA09AE1B73373C3AB4D9B00C1DF4334887DE705148735940C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6054...3649 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.26.138.213 (ssh-rsa key from 185.26.138.213 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ES)
1594563;1483156176;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CCBD6F0B599F46ADAADC879BEE5083774937726C71222DBED52819E3F8841608 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9187...5311 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.216.114.109 (ssh-rsa key from 178.216.114.109 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown IE)
1594564;1483156177;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC2BCF91DC3E6099388464F412FA20A90CFAD4ACAD3C25BAA57613499CB0B290 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1318...7677 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.245.175.1 (ssh-rsa key from 103.245.175.1 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.dilnz.co.nz. NZ AUK)
1594565;1483156177;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A3F5866CC3D66F276D22E619C2F5AC64B1A9562754056769544AD64A6F5D91D6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1392...3541 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.48.118.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.48.118.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (catv-178-48-118-6.catv.broadband.hu. HU)
1594566;1483156178;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BC586673B3A2B6A5F517DD4F86FF01EAF8217BFE7B61FFD03D8FFFBB4B3F0BF6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 114403638865440501874897292323307620811488211850314540725840731645304878402544045419163405370904465617105554979484461360172191940008763267838445722684681666310620157219227383585755442157445381176293046388037704218854478681968531793446349707948875973440171639571663388272646679202512582088772685236176354222689 divides RS
1594567;1483156256;shinohai; wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
1594568;1483156471;asciilifeform;i'm gonna guess that archive.today is mainly storing sad 502s for phuctor.
1594569;1483156512;asciilifeform;i recommend to exempt it from the usual treatment, trinque et al, until i invent some radically new mechanism for the thing to work on, instead of postgres.
1594570;1483156517;asciilifeform;because caching won't help here
1594571;1483156522;asciilifeform;(the pages ARE NEW)
1594572;1483156546;asciilifeform;caching helped against reddit etc. 'slashdotting'
1594573;1483156547;trinque;asciilifeform: remove from RSS for now?
1594574;1483156549;asciilifeform;but not deedbot.
1594575;1483156550;asciilifeform;no!
1594576;1483156553;asciilifeform;from ARCHIVE
1594577;1483156556;asciilifeform;process
1594578;1483156572;asciilifeform;y'know, the thing that submits all links to archivator.
1594579;1483156578;trinque;ah I'm not archiving
1594580;1483156581;trinque;Framedragger: ?
1594581;1483156583;asciilifeform;somebody is
1594582;1483156631;asciilifeform;and yes, i'd love for the thing to 'load right away like NORMAL PEOPLE WWWSITES'
1594583;1483156635;asciilifeform;but i have presently nfi how!!
1594584;1483156717;trinque;probably would involve replication to a db not doing the phuctoring
1594585;1483156724;trinque;maybe by shipping WAL logs over
1594586;1483156733;asciilifeform;wtf is that
1594587;1483156745;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D1F21C56369A845DD7E82F81282A7FF382FF19A40CB211A3FE905FE32F7D0811 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 122808808155502005992050393158708077309005351998312390011516713207092877460837620767511386382420005353910015766963339601126264218406023611877480129803850131236845488457756968309659373452381474962189871498597486589194390111186150767365429194286581656108644791700717264827500499851660044114621060663446818964329 divides RS
1594588;1483156745;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CA4D6D99BD53EE12FD2184F3D94D1D0F6CF5B2C366DF4B812AE9C43290B52087 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2204...1871 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.209.188.67 (ssh-rsa key from 103.209.188.67 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1594589;1483156745;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/01F118900F4415C1A47F16D662A65000A144A1FB80E43E762AA5BA97F28FE985 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2204...1871 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.209.188.52 (ssh-rsa key from 103.209.188.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1594590;1483156745;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/447812200DA64264C38FF4F20EFBBA75AC4D62207DA70CE2BA16BFA479655523 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2204...1871 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.209.188.63 (ssh-rsa key from 103.209.188.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1594591;1483156745;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E9B91532AFCB032CCF7D033203342173C9D1CB8ABC05C28D4F241C894DB61046 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2204...1871 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.209.188.69 (ssh-rsa key from 103.209.188.69 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1594592;1483156745;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8020A6223D55016672A0165B1FE4AEC290CB2C3292C1A024AA2A1D9DC4E8A897 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 123496187496349295164180618150389324247138412850092051931445537582102004259736845816873228928317057533483597540106873366068109144769410377829795688886880156768065777072384443299417299286642474181658181454254621114655096372780884388194101585667038727048625382311083365677843026875759186891529959528029581195677 divides RS
1594593;1483156746;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B8E50F1FCE7F95C881C1811B0B265BD1F9FCE154D32003A035736DF2CA59A3EB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 138253961567049330728064429442382872180021954259422175585940348984387505548940615107442929033040196853430642811912773590886182425323855244432245362354606221521963853353185987573311169937142805679900512002521672391149681024355217878522083013698651777717922732421166049377556701806350124992656086988761202979869 divides RS
1594594;1483156746;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2FAC50A1C165BC1FD76C8FBA3EEBA4528916AED7F36E97934BDE58A51E44C10A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1016...3831 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '50.100.138.112 (ssh-rsa key from 50.100.138.112 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (tsrvpq3242w-lp140-01-50-100-138-112.dsl.bell.ca. CA)
1594595;1483156747;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E0043A93396593A001EDEACA24D69746D01C1BC8BEA6B92C24FCA0CC2156CAF8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6757...9449 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.125.184.29 (ssh-rsa key from 177.125.184.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (177-125-184-29.turbolink.com.br. BR)
1594596;1483156747;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/74196364BA5FD757256058F44430CD37E3465EFBA7C21702A8B7AB82129A387F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 124730075753805593915146966839798614861382666688393196760920009212348754727619427690691905742832313253761405920648049001526776349071631720896595832412611453611820541935134198317623027647054977525846444557479583452798185729070692817779392909147746776222334409725433779674201272682864993439438898216108644496737 divides RS
1594597;1483156748;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ECE8B06767309F8681FEF3BEFD7D6BBE8AEDA9276CE93D218F3DF19F452C97FD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2664...1431 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.13.98.10 (ssh-rsa key from 210.13.98.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 31)
1594598;1483156748;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/433CDA0FEBE1F1FBB95659218C0BDA1ED35646CFFC76631E9BB464B246409651 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2664...1431 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.13.98.14 (ssh-rsa key from 210.13.98.14 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 31)
1594599;1483156749;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FC1DEB5D6697135398258CB8614D45DB99C53C690CA6016253BDAB670E7BA6F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 136821761237849933071791521983830786242313866092231969143522527447395287939072615552276713669932764722149353806330953243332362938142023239616650300112945564930390487484166416703800512278680499789460139573198921820854447721843017790739761732927439308674645935675872595453526001520443337962996784451362175379519 divides RS
1594600;1483156749;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CB1380312D4426C60182BF2E5A91378A27082E8DD221EFEE9A5D9DEA3D354A04 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2330...0767 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '104.236.110.35 (ssh-rsa key from 104.236.110.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (july2016.bugcrowdctf.com. US NY)
1594601;1483156753;asciilifeform;trinque: also please recall, the 'db doing the phuctoring' is all of 3 min.
1594602;1483156775;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/31ED10A45CCADB55455F2A1AB889DBB26C7C053A37C13132018B32F4F52CB2EC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6279...4471 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '191.242.148.93 (ssh-rsa key from 191.242.148.93 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (191-242-148-93.byteweb.com.br. BR)
1594603;1483156775;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1A4B99E7553B0206B4FFE0096B0A3C708D98C8258A1BFDF3FC457C30BB610238 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6322...5531 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.91.23.56 (ssh-rsa key from 177.91.23.56 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BR)
1594604;1483156802;trinque;asciilifeform: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/continuous-archiving.html
1594605;1483156833;trinque;you can ship the write ahead log chunks from one db to others
1594606;1483156843;asciilifeform;trinque: do you know what % of my remaining life i want to spend ministering to postgres ?
1594607;1483156850;asciilifeform;0 !!!
1594608;1483156865;trinque;offering solutions for the turd you have, not the turd you wish you had
1594609;1483156867;trinque;lol
1594610;1483156914;trinque;but not much of a recommendation can be made blind, anyway
1594611;1483156951;asciilifeform;trinque: i don't have a cluster to 'replicate' this onto.
1594612;1483156952;asciilifeform;and not going to.
1594613;1483156971;trinque;what's the load of the box? or is it just the locking you mentioned?
1594614;1483156987;asciilifeform;correct
1594615;1483156999;asciilifeform;cpu % load is not the issue.
1594616;1483157018;asciilifeform;it is the IDIOTIC read locking discussed earlier.
1594617;1483157031;trinque;if you are already loading whole db, dumping whole db, repeat, could fart the thing into a second display database somewhere in there.
1594618;1483157035;asciilifeform;as usual, whenever we ~really~ lean onto something, it crumples into the pile of shit that it was.
1594619;1483157037;trinque;run www from that.
1594620;1483157043;asciilifeform;trinque: how many times do i have to say it
1594621;1483157050;asciilifeform;DB DUMP IS THREE MINUTES OF A DAY
1594622;1483157053;asciilifeform;THREE
1594623;1483157055;asciilifeform;MINUTES
1594624;1483157058;trinque;dude, you seem to think
1594625;1483157061;trinque;that I can read your mind.
1594626;1483157066;trinque;and see what I didn't write
1594627;1483157070;asciilifeform;when i say same thing 3 times !!
1594628;1483157073;mircea_popescu;da fuck happened here.
1594629;1483157080;asciilifeform;folx can't, evidently, read!
1594630;1483157096;trinque;nah, folks just have certain fetishes I'm not fond of.
1594631;1483157112;trinque;having a read db separate from workhorse db is pretty normal.
1594632;1483157120;asciilifeform;trinque: and, again, only MODULI get dumped regularly
1594633;1483157142;asciilifeform;naked moduli. no names, no fps, no keys, no structure. linearly.
1594634;1483157150;asciilifeform;dumping whole thing would take considerably longer.
1594635;1483157164;asciilifeform;and, again, 'displayify daily' will nuke the 'use as sks, check pasted keys in real time' aspect.
1594636;1483157170;trinque;why the fuck would you move what didn't change
1594637;1483157173;trinque;to the read db
1594638;1483157177;trinque;but do what you like
1594639;1483157188;asciilifeform;because maybe i pasted the ---BEGIN PGP...... 3 seconds ago.
1594640;1483157190;asciilifeform;it must display.
1594641;1483157218;asciilifeform;you are ready to part with this feature, trinque ? because i happen to use it quite often
1594642;1483157221;asciilifeform;and rather like it
1594643;1483157252;mircea_popescu;the whole phuctor key db got resent did it
1594644;1483157270;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i am slowly working my way through wtf happened there.
1594645;1483157274;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all
1594646;1483157280;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 950.26, vol: 11073.38925604 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 923.773, vol: 4625.85574 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 951.38, vol: 18526.56234319 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 969.55344, vol: 2316075.93990000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 952.598, vol: 2069.05155333 | Volume-weighted last average: 969.214551874
1594647;1483157282;asciilifeform;it is very difficult, presently, because archivebot thermonuked the thing.
1594648;1483157295;asciilifeform;by attempting to load ~every~ result, as, predictably, it wants to.
1594649;1483157314;mircea_popescu;lmao
1594650;1483157319;asciilifeform;'db resent' is not a thing that happens.
1594651;1483157355;asciilifeform;for one thing, not a single key fell into the user funnel today.
1594652;1483157364;mircea_popescu;is the box dead or just under load ?
1594653;1483157367;asciilifeform;load
1594654;1483157375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/87ED7FF1E62787F41907F5F48A9EEAA244382CD95E81939556342D8FA670681F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1969...2723 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '104.35.224.8 (ssh-rsa key from 104.35.224.8 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cpe-104-35-224-8.socal.res.rr.com. US CA)
1594655;1483157375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3280CC5ADC51343BCBD5CD53DCDB6F7BE47CCAAE4D6C3215BD796917E6E4871D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 160210383404535620636504666201059753971359050329616137680484989365715869810542413313141097584231603732134663585785456023271841184348181900595913288405834510126590249384200875722310319092776450166898693889741783044535684740774881315873640793969632598713781431986727241521815209399089923676312666701557029178389 divides RS
1594656;1483157375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/32A17025B8D819D3E0493B28B08FB1451310F07A9B3931B68911DE2F7E415385 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 5923...3819 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '219.95.129.238 (ssh-rsa key from 219.95.129.238 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MY)
1594657;1483157375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EB0B72BA604F20890AD691C82BA64262593DEF9BC9F383CF6027072621F6E319 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 24203439087598981669790787404897104261487457701163873639972302578106749930096026968019317188722077391388742968536565704288638670329894956775581645437342517552788985188651742311733982867319533228354182269093020376346783102188823506513441995678757999210031304924371689086079199638188116826220683601590642424580983244910525
1594658;1483157375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1A2E23B951FD6F9310E9E3E1D28967ED93CE1CC026F36909FAFE22012D12CC99 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1180...7071 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '101.227.245.184 (ssh-rsa key from 101.227.245.184 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 31)
1594659;1483157375;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6FEA5F20C066301F58736B6317C144E7D9E32F246183DFD454AAEAE2BFDD25FF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 120387535769682216680653487551991927945997935056295915044807774763625341980621000880789723059464473693479102207742220698609323551350898165707105486161465735212060534842564580863037472280580748531672497621492799367118272448218390653337952468746503332188354604333032639342548186046897521341095038176303771510163 divides RS
1594660;1483157376;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5492FF39CB591396BA136021CA440FEAE91D8A7D2E92C6964D70FD2818C278F7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6338...6147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '216.240.165.144 (ssh-rsa key from 216.240.165.144 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lwdc.ar06.fa1-65.host15.24312.americanis.net. US CA)
1594661;1483157376;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C94C0242BCB0E890422A788833FD609FDBD232083D5028AA147D500B2B35CD84 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2238...1277 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '172.98.193.246 (ssh-rsa key from 172.98.193.246 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
1594662;1483157377;asciilifeform;and the db is deadlocked nearly to death.
1594663;1483157377;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9B81550EFE426D79A6551290F7DECDF5AAEC06CC82CD0FC89E9DBC1931CA42EB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6673...1919 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.41.118.90 (ssh-rsa key from 78.41.118.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (nbem5-sw.rosen2.wien.funkfeuer.at. AT)
1594664;1483157377;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/13F108608387F5E5568FFC67485A35CE2C73D40B9CEB1055DE69F99BF35822F4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 4718...3063 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.91.170.159 (ssh-rsa key from 177.91.170.159 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BR)
1594665;1483157430;mircea_popescu;but these are repeats aren't they ?
1594666;1483157435;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3DBC31D68DC030EA12A74A4775726292EA61344B668151E56EFA0D3F23E8F90A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 150270058682154948491485700179444861450493875542319413360827761142877600587148818369709891347487784583533506124688554061436664866946873589832643745719118301316849514042476620990196281954711906837961604155173992825164779167481430143831732390632335180608977406791957202813413113811585565894790550635507727844017 divides RS
1594667;1483157435;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/969CE4B367DEB8280E2C388AA833DB43D129C90FD82785D68271EA64268182C0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1252776223106075000976914402729284646594026834515986279923295362812492004419033343374724960021614097490556578570188796998958974161088003038950504347179295763175962059126540168938313661406391319234428079886379927649646289023314024249 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Robert M. Cortopassi <rcrtpssi@sprintmail.com>; '
1594668;1483157435;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B87BF09D0EFF68D82245D4EDDE5C80E2C925407AF50A3C4E9F6DEAAA66362ED3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1050...7089 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.120.151.91 (ssh-rsa key from 94.120.151.91 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown TR 48)
1594669;1483157438;mircea_popescu;!#s 13F108608387F5E5568FFC67485A35CE2C73D40B9CEB1055DE69F99BF35822F4
1594670;1483157438;a111;1 result for "13F108608387F5E5568FFC67485A35CE2C73D40B9CEB1055DE69F99BF35822F4", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=13F108608387F5E5568FFC67485A35CE2C73D40B9CEB1055DE69F99BF35822F4
1594671;1483157446;mircea_popescu;not repeats. wow. wut ?
1594672;1483157453;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not repeats. but mods-inside-mods
1594673;1483157470;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry ?
1594674;1483157490;asciilifeform;(this is a bug! as in, a case i never properly handled! when entire modulus is also a factor of another. i will have to filter these)
1594675;1483157496;asciilifeform;so folx please do not rush to qntra or wherever.
1594676;1483157503;asciilifeform;with these moduli.
1594677;1483157534;mircea_popescu;as you say, odds of it being composite in the end pretty good anyway
1594678;1483157543;asciilifeform;in all previous cases -- they were.
1594679;1483157547;asciilifeform;but this cannot be relied on.
1594680;1483157574;asciilifeform;so for next couple of hours, until the second half of this bernsteinization, there will be 100s of mods marked 'phuctored' for whom the only marked factor -- is themselves. which is Wrong
1594681;1483157611;mircea_popescu;what exactly did you do here ?
1594682;1483157614;asciilifeform;(i'ma handle this case by putting the brakes on marking 'phuctored' anything for which a factor that isn't 1 < f < mod is known
1594683;1483157615;asciilifeform;)
1594684;1483157637;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have so far not made any change.
1594685;1483157646;asciilifeform;(werker is as it was in april.)
1594686;1483157662;mircea_popescu;so is it 8ball that finally climbed into "clever" territory ?
1594687;1483157664;asciilifeform;the one thing i did this week was to reintroduce the 8ball
1594688;1483157668;asciilifeform;and no, it has not.
1594689;1483157682;asciilifeform;this is not expected to happen in the lifetime of the universe.
1594690;1483157698;ben_vulpes;what is "clever" territory?
1594691;1483157705;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nontrivial bitnesses
1594692;1483157718;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: prime count is approx log (N)
1594693;1483157724;asciilifeform;estimate primorial of N.
1594694;1483157727;asciilifeform;(homework)
1594695;1483157729;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes a space in the set of integers where nsa parked its special, "secretly" nonprime eggs.
1594696;1483157730;asciilifeform;and the bitness of it.
1594697;1483157773;asciilifeform;nao eventually i'ma make a veeeery speshul 8ball
1594698;1483157776;asciilifeform;with 'pseudoprimes'
1594699;1483157786;asciilifeform;made using 'false witnesses' for various primality algos
1594700;1483157791;asciilifeform;but i have not yet done this !
1594701;1483157799;asciilifeform;maybe i die tomorrow and you lot will do this !
1594702;1483157809;mircea_popescu;so you did nothing, the 8ball didn't do it, and it's not a rank repeat.
1594703;1483157811;mircea_popescu;what happened ?!
1594704;1483157812;asciilifeform;but it is a pretty obvious thing.
1594705;1483157832;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'ma take home a copy of the db, and find out.
1594706;1483157879;mircea_popescu;aitr
1594707;1483157893;asciilifeform;i have a suspicion re what.
1594708;1483157908;asciilifeform;though it wouldn't account for what we saw here, possibly.
1594709;1483157915;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D65658D0FCD20E75E5886C1CF671CA2734D4F51A3ECC5153D7F924E002A04322 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1314...3829 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '118.163.29.56 (ssh-rsa key from 118.163.29.56 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (118-163-29-56.HINET-IP.hinet.net. TW)
1594710;1483157915;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DF2EE9BFAD9F290EA33F05CBC2D7CC7E11CF64A278DE73C59CE58FD9F6DBA517 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1492...5433 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '124.105.100.25 (ssh-rsa key from 124.105.100.25 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown PH)
1594711;1483157915;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EBEF9D59EEC8502BEE0592FA987D27467B155A3B9F3C034AF35E7775BD080728 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 134027014693466225119222673042705210458289868379842571003977520000347277065565873187261712370551912301429196159056447223252874089209785984994635041722009566768313657772458360286422033966426332276505873266708771150705228523181526608318857466457978069317839024164179561200064293677194203386638867821079934006311 divides RS
1594712;1483157915;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0EF384973B27B43EB822D1A7B995BB0D0689A57EE69F8BBDE7529E4ED8E93864 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 118097924646192212844294059431433638289333817950092468328000568526056734749869991863174468881277192147292805418704455697060080794601178741564191370241810508704568528257181325260971620319025965606410964941566664154938837772108224748809986953606382010806341453129485075054148556691776814279247451080452483249221 divides RS
1594713;1483157915;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C9BA4759A86E9C755E781F23440E3B007E3C435DD3A36750B38DA37F12C6A492 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6510...2911 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '198.11.121.141 (ssh-rsa key from 198.11.121.141 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US MN)
1594714;1483157916;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D557729C54456AA4AA5D39C9F28C3EBE1FD3EDB2C11A168E8300CDB32E548B17 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6089...1223 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.33.202.51 (ssh-rsa key from 212.33.202.51 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown IR)
1594715;1483157916;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E5B374C3D4817B14A437BB47D0697A370B78948494B7285E56C912E732FF83DB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9261106860060484599161188591965147843777069770726517003548394995366327805517318738785869424534481521699057333131876013540956324544181371100561725960253729 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Paul Anderson <paul@dcs.ed.ac.uk>; '
1594716;1483157917;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/83E91717FD2D9FCF8A39AEBA0108BE89BB461F72367AA5F57D89917766CE4A0B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 8066815509953122940201641985543357608657089598507919597765340829244884718096805415816195319953590579453114669701185360600242475459410398148969153945909821 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Murray Jensen <mjj@mlb.dmt.csiro.au>; '
1594717;1483157917;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6426B43021E668802AC633EF0DF6A0C0CD745E2EA512DDFFDCF2B3A5B886A00D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9696...9749 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.104.82.54 (ssh-rsa key from 177.104.82.54 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (power177-104-82-54.powerline.com.br. BR)
1594718;1483157918;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A482D469AB6D374C9F956B01B84C3B204BC568EC1595F65B9B07D113006F9585 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1276...3343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.170.102.212 (ssh-rsa key from 213.170.102.212 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
1594719;1483157945;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B6D8EB4AE52010CD83FFC9BEC9553734E02B7015FFF0BFBF28F46422D52C541B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6487...4181 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '63.134.136.49 (ssh-rsa key from 63.134.136.49 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US IL)
1594720;1483158115;mircea_popescu;at least i banned a bunch of people for join/part spamming the logs today
1594721;1483158119;mircea_popescu;all is not lost!
1594722;1483158177;asciilifeform;lelz
1594723;1483158264;asciilifeform;interestingly i found several instances in log where werker crashed with a div0. and then went, by hand, to verify if i am a tard and permitted a crafted key containing 0 as modulus to be submitted. but no dice.
1594724;1483158275;asciilifeform;i was not, evidently, a tard. not of this type at any rate.
1594725;1483158313;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594641 << I've been saying how to do this all day.
1594726;1483158313;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 04:06 asciilifeform: you are ready to part with this feature, trinque ? because i happen to use it quite often
1594727;1483158329;asciilifeform;trinque: i'ma have to reread.
1594728;1483158340;asciilifeform;slowly.
1594729;1483158348;trinque;lel, it's been a busy day!
1594730;1483158363;ben_vulpes;yes asciilifeform pops each one by hand
1594731;1483158369;asciilifeform;patience, folx. i have a potentially catastrophic wtfomf111 here.
1594732;1483158375;asciilifeform;that ~will~ have to be dealt with.
1594733;1483158394;asciilifeform;worst case is that we (or somebody ELSE) found an undocumented boojum concerning bernstein's algo.
1594734;1483158420;mircea_popescu;eh don't get too excited.
1594735;1483158426;asciilifeform;but yet again, there's been 0 hand submissions since dec. 28.
1594736;1483158431;asciilifeform;and a total of 3 since dec. 15.
1594737;1483158446;asciilifeform;so probably no mega-find here.
1594738;1483158485;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A19989F03EDFE13D4C1198E814E1A6EC2D6BA8EBB96F53FCAFEA1D7C11C3B8E9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7554...3233 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.217.121.100 (ssh-rsa key from 67.217.121.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (rr-67-217-121-100.teljet.com. US VT)
1594739;1483158485;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/18DC8CCE17C54809E88A1EF4E293327DDCD907877F2449D1AF583BC7543C3CE8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 135192443031045370697121450363201535406194017642858886283055885725716194643307347263655704185006518720261734940916088996292500034410208481093714986215147819379637366347726565554053388660231482749757362691446887257058404730197355834891015912401629580698463225036802197205179412190661493691094280540062902835953 divides RS
1594740;1483158485;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/36DE45D6F3F1AB47D604F9B6ECAF214981C556375F48AF84C6A7389C1430823C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 122661382081170202241748109583168158894667302000252871139032508117704250805290643457929048283808946371270290652766780010482760684241303360747951967931396066958245343298454903205649524130604618628924926000208066678891827846464828498273912867303533244734229820815928786010182529268604202185407029446645430624133 divides RS
1594741;1483158486;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/997F9323B5D9168FC414317540B8723BA16FB1EC62F9757984E3232CDCC15726 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1303...1111 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.208.116.161 (ssh-rsa key from 41.208.116.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (41.208.116.161.static.ltt.ly. LY)
1594742;1483158486;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A692FB75898A699FA782AE866E2396B8903B8064DBDA277E24C7FB0F41776324 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1179...9541 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.49.195.100 (ssh-rsa key from 193.49.195.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR 59 O)
1594743;1483158486;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5CE72E3F7FBCEC0550C49F1767475AB2EC0BEA34C527DFB383F1B555424515F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 4399...5253 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '176.58.82.226 (ssh-rsa key from 176.58.82.226 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (dynamic-host-176-58-82-226.warian.net. IT)
1594744;1483158487;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8D920DB12C5F2846F07CB13F9165655F5C2147A22AB97EC0FD717502C8AC1E36 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7308...2943 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.231.13.179 (ssh-rsa key from 46.231.13.179 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB KHL ENG)
1594745;1483158487;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/23E05826D71DC12DE2ADFE11A0B3629995F97F72A8CF46C48C0426546661D1A7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9635821971009761243104423549858091825936312697605468130949556778819632184859273876965675589494714326657030464545433189402048155680850251483082414123971609 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Kazuyuki IENAGA <ienaga@jsys.co.jp>; '
1594746;1483158488;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4455C0DBD97540B19B8D0B3D5925938032BE1A585ADF0EBEA120303B6DFDA942 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 8856...6959 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '189.180.54.120 (ssh-rsa key from 189.180.54.120 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (dsl-189-180-54-120-dyn.prod-infinitum.com.mx. MX)
1594747;1483158488;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D5696CA0B9A18CB46319C6D58D350FF80D664EC45619F0CCECC7345448D54595 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2492...8161 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.11.41.7 (ssh-rsa key from 185.11.41.7 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CY)
1594748;1483158691;asciilifeform;as soon as this batch fully digests, i'ma switch off the werker until further notice. could be couplea days.
1594749;1483158709;asciilifeform;i'd rather print 300 retractions than 3000.
1594750;1483158758;mircea_popescu;why are you against cutting off its rss for now ?
1594751;1483158762;mircea_popescu;it doesn't actually help in any way.
1594752;1483158763;asciilifeform;also worx
1594753;1483158771;mircea_popescu;trinque can you cut it off temporarily ?
1594754;1483158783;trinque;np
1594755;1483158791;asciilifeform;i have 0 objection
1594756;1483158803;mircea_popescu;give the man some space to figure out wtf happened ; if it turns out they're valid we can always put them in later.
1594757;1483158807;mircea_popescu;not like anyone can read it anyway.
1594758;1483159026;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6941C19BD0F3FFF7147B0BAB84ABC93C087651393DD884F19145F0B73131E6DB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1250...9391 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '207.59.80.2 (ssh-rsa key from 207.59.80.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
1594759;1483159026;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/942A6BB6379FE3203EAE425B9CFC8FF730927FC55810E32B8112145E942E7933 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 132136470740818025837932899371786071904705343336942359158840587304479837740040755442256012552088656481493198815761872158099784780932834271598184650861192950340854211947945261516028224108744977926563222596399183785978390508401411390070198531295642115302851715437723520767378389756025120994364039513718207642713 divides RS
1594760;1483159026;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/58D21287922CC2C4B0F3F7C950971B7873BD4418F5F6535905E1AA755C85ABEF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 153896480147897306683451423904545834666574432113944788421186509886100722530753483419263124951860600941998749252325531472372649510186764422216630324507959184015564274487821018257918933665921640270726876592612292601702676654512127913418662712245419466669137508601471860945030121901068234361194871490448439273517 divides RS
1594761;1483159026;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9788B58E7FF75CC02B4FA75E416C1E5267F7C806DE748983B0753E8D3868E504 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 7111...6027 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '65.95.55.14 (ssh-rsa key from 65.95.55.14 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (altoon4123w-lp140-02-65-95-55-14.dsl.bell.ca. CA)
1594762;1483159026;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0DAB81A575FA171E82639D4CE0BF2659A01732962C1566647A35D0AF51B2FD97 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 22497142070567396395170440776156492109573655606754955997706166207837201259717645302873193940734977330930910936704361305080698237226152818389140419020002730480371917775510803053358131165006466807912182007371226590498749243054456960759755303744616207848566147901971942960636183537238605583250498601995228985317423732053665
1594763;1483159026;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D207B241AE8EC0B9AF9695CF31A1BA93683EA9E7E2A3ABF8766FBD55796D115 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6688...3573 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.182.65.209 (ssh-rsa key from 95.182.65.209 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (209-65-182-95.fatum.ru. RU)
1594764;1483159027;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/421E33DCF67894D972603FC79EAB24F85AB3BF76D9BCE620B71486CDFFFDE94F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2492...1413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.252.19.17 (ssh-rsa key from 46.252.19.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
1594765;1483159027;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/63B5E7FAA6E42FDD0725D4493A50BEF4827B19F89222A58BD9AF1863D9E5BE27 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 136046992482852631965606714016593464659070941021277352421601042048790318343544048621264911825456807379888408877105250288011589275872319110034262559866697921178789700272259060269387062073933803810701900999037012206843131231798812671914737477311823396615009600631410932058522364404714507253204200493357644993999 divides RS
1594766;1483159028;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/29BCE77830F31D7147566D11AC472C39210058DCFF16B3C435F1FD540AA3FF90 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 6562...0209 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '207.174.242.5 (ssh-rsa key from 207.174.242.5 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (207-174-242-5.flrvmi.fnw.us. US MI)
1594767;1483159028;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/34F88784CBE3A1C9FE5FC15F8FF3E193F70A1E08FE7611EC5614D071F848BBAD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1575...4727 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.164.4.178 (ssh-rsa key from 213.164.4.178 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.a-trust.at. AT 9)
1594768;1483159045;trinque;turned off the hose.
1594769;1483159054;asciilifeform;ty trinque
1594770;1483159208;asciilifeform;btw this is not wholly trivial q
1594771;1483159229;asciilifeform;does a modulus count as 'has factor' if gcd(it, another) == it ?
1594772;1483159247;asciilifeform;it does not. but by bernstein's algo -- does.
1594773;1483159268;asciilifeform;so it is special case, it is marked by bernstein but must stay green until another factor is found.
1594774;1483159277;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a modulus is by definition not prime.
1594775;1483159299;asciilifeform;to complicate matters, there were a handful of jokers who made prime moduli.
1594776;1483159305;mircea_popescu;the odds of hundreds, if not thousands, of composite (with two, or more, prime factors) being also the factors of other moduli seem slim./
1594777;1483159335;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the one way this is possible, by my reckoning, is if the deduplication somehow failed.
1594778;1483159340;asciilifeform;which is my working hypothesis.
1594779;1483159344;mircea_popescu;for instance.
1594780;1483159346;asciilifeform;it must have.
1594781;1483159401;asciilifeform;this would of course mean that Framedragger's set contained massive dupeage somehow.
1594782;1483159414;asciilifeform;(how? i've nfi)
1594783;1483159437;asciilifeform;but normally, dupes get properly marked.
1594784;1483159508;asciilifeform;Pid 4783(fastwerker) over core_pipe_limit
1594785;1483159508;asciilifeform;Skipping core dump
1594786;1483159512;asciilifeform;turns out my log is full of these.
1594787;1483159517;asciilifeform;wtf is this, and why does it exist.
1594788;1483159522;asciilifeform;it does not exist on my gentoo boxen.
1594789;1483159563;mircea_popescu;so it dumped core ?
1594790;1483159570;asciilifeform;well no !
1594791;1483159587;asciilifeform;because FuckHead-Linux decided that it is somehow ok to 'skipped coredump'
1594792;1483159787;asciilifeform;http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/linux/kernel/1241453 << burn them all.
1594793;1483159816;asciilifeform;'The ability to limit concurrent coredumps allows dumping core to be safely  enabled in these situations without affecting responsiveness of the system  as a whole.  I have several servers running with this patch applied (actually backported  to v2.6.26) and it has allowed me to deal successfully with the situation  described above.'
1594794;1483159829;asciilifeform;penny in the fusebox.
1594795;1483159837;asciilifeform;because in their cockroach universe, THIS MAKES SENSE
1594796;1483159884;asciilifeform;the result, incidentally, is ZERO COREDUMPS
1594797;1483159888;asciilifeform;on the box.
1594798;1483159906;asciilifeform;i shit thee not.
1594799;1483159943;asciilifeform;'because when asciilifeform enables coredumps, surely what he MEANT to do is to ENABLE EXCEPT IF TOO MANY'
1594800;1483159953;asciilifeform;i have no words.
1594801;1483159955;trinque;ahaha
1594802;1483159984;asciilifeform;'too many is as good as none, so let's then give'im none'
1594803;1483160018;mircea_popescu;you don't understand. you're supposed to know when you cause core dumps and just work around it.
1594804;1483160032;asciilifeform;this is the last time i permit a linux kernel to be used on my watch that i did not with own hands build.
1594805;1483160121;trinque;the linux combustion engine, explodes 300 times per second
1594806;1483160124;asciilifeform;every time! that i think 'what new idiocy could possibly be inside'
1594807;1483160127;asciilifeform;every time.
1594808;1483162386;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-are-they-all-going-to-die/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Are they all going to die
1594809;1483165262;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://archive.org/stream/Link-16-Joint-Key-Management-Plan-28-April-2015/Link%2016%20Joint%20Key%20Management%20Plan,%2028%20April%202015_djvu.txt
1594810;1483165403;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594228 <<< protip for asciilifeform, if it actually gets off the ground, it's not a sim!11
1594811;1483165403;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 22:18 asciilifeform: historically accurate to the point of wtf -- even radio controls (what good are they in a sim?) are there.
1594812;1483165427;mircea_popescu;lol
1594813;1483165957;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-three-men-are-coming/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Three men are coming
1594814;1483167262;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594446 <<< i'm confused, isn't the 8-ball a set of factors that you multiplied into the running product, and for which 're-running' makes little sense, as being already present in the global factors product?
1594815;1483167262;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 03:26 asciilifeform: and where was this pop when i first ran 8ball
1594816;1483169858;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-lucy-returns/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Lucy returns
1594817;1483172709;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-before-they-set-off/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Before they set off
1594818;1483174090;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594781 << hmm. what i could do is, check that all generated gpg keys have the right e and N (by comparing to the e,N,IP CSVs that i fully trust); to make sure that i didn't mess up the gpg-generation thing. i don't think it'd be really possible, and i had done some manual checks before, but maybe worth to write an automated full-on test.
1594819;1483174090;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 04:43 asciilifeform: this would of course mean that Framedragger's set contained massive dupeage somehow.
1594820;1483174112;Framedragger;probably a useful piece of code to have anyway; actual tests for proper maintenance. :)
1594821;1483174152;Framedragger;that being said, confused.com re. this case.
1594822;1483174255;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594793 << wow, that's retarded 2000
1594823;1483174255;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 04:50 asciilifeform: 'The ability to limit concurrent coredumps allows dumping core to be safely  enabled in these situations without affecting responsiveness of the system  as a whole.  I have several servers running with this patch applied (actually backported  to v2.6.26) and it has allowed me to deal successfully with the situation  described above.'
1594824;1483174441;Framedragger;streamlined coredumping reminds me of http://hack.org/mc/texts/suns-boot-fast.txt
1594825;1483174747;trinque;pretty good
1594826;1483174791;trinque;> thanks to bill for increasing my swap space
1594827;1483174792;trinque;ahaha
1594828;1483174846;Framedragger;:(
1594829;1483174866;trinque;what he fixed it
1594830;1483174904;Framedragger;but they expanded my cell's volume so i have room to walk around now
1594831;1483175065;trinque;damn, I was born that year
1594832;1483176121;Framedragger;btw asciilifeform, if you want to be even more sure that no postgres data is lost while being written during power failure, you probably need to disable disk controller and disk drive caches, if at all possible. but maybe you've done this.. as per https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/wal-reliability.html
1594833;1483177144;Framedragger;(actually, i'm sure you've considered all this, so sorry for assuming you may not have)
1594834;1483195609;mircea_popescu;Framedragger i wouldn't worry about it.
1594835;1483200684;mircea_popescu;reading tom knight about lispm fills me with rage.
1594836;1483200928;asciilifeform;knight, in case anyone did not know, designed and built the original lispm.
1594837;1483200939;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1594838;1483201214;*;mircea_popescu in #freenode ; <mircea_popescu> christel is there some manner to opt out of the cutesy/pointless global notices ? or otherwise out of these global notices altogether ?
1594839;1483201243;mircea_popescu;but do you suppose christel feels the need to ANSWER ? no, he'll just speak. because hey, we're all on fucking tv over here.
1594840;1483201336;mircea_popescu;you should see that channel, it's like camwhores' chatrooms exactly.
1594841;1483201427;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-katy-is-coaxed/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Katy is coaxed
1594842;1483201579;shinohai;mircea_popescu: You can unset those with /umode -w
1594843;1483201604;mircea_popescu;i have, meanwhile.
1594844;1483201608;shinohai;I think /ignore *!*@freenode/staff/* NOTICE works as well
1594845;1483201630;mircea_popescu;the point, however, is that before i will use the tools, i'd rather parlay with the idiots as if they were, somehow, people.
1594846;1483201644;shinohai;lol
1594847;1483201647;mircea_popescu;of course i have the tools. my existence is not limited or in any way described by the acts of idiots.
1594848;1483201650;mircea_popescu;theirs however, is.
1594849;1483204893;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tUG5b/?raw=true  2016 shitcoin roundup
1594850;1483204894;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded.
1594851;1483205351;shinohai;Also, blaze new paths this New Year: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1AvHb8WgAEVxjT.jpg
1594852;1483205628;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-in-spite-of-all-that/ << Trilema - Disgrace - In spite of all that
1594853;1483205839;mircea_popescu;i don't know how new they are. seem pretty well formed.
1594854;1483206539;asciilifeform;phun phakt:
1594855;1483206543;asciilifeform;'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend that you consider the limitations of statically linking very carefully, and consider yo
1594856;1483206543;asciilifeform;ur customer and their needs, plus the long-term support you will need to provide.'
1594857;1483206708;asciilifeform;grade a+++++ monkeyware
1594858;1483207946;mircea_popescu;hurr. "if we want to use the anal orifice later on and you linked something it may give it away. use this lube.'
1594859;1483208001;asciilifeform;this btw on the libc level.
1594860;1483208009;asciilifeform;dun matter what you use, old gcc, gnat, etc.
1594861;1483208017;asciilifeform;the linker -- barfs.
1594862;1483208044;mircea_popescu;sure. they know how to do it ; llvm is not "a competitor" for gcc, the notion that someone could "hold out" is nonsense. llvm was written quite exactly with full knowledge of gcc in mind.
1594863;1483208047;asciilifeform;(found this gem when testing an otherwise 100%-portable gnat makefile)
1594864;1483208060;phf;we briefly exploerd this fun fact back when static linking became a thing (with bitcoind)
1594865;1483208068;asciilifeform;aha, i recall, phf had a mac experiment
1594866;1483208096;asciilifeform;notably the machine from this example is a mac with 100%-working gnat (on gcc 4.xx)
1594867;1483208126;asciilifeform;at any rate, i suppose it dun much matter how one links in monkeyland.
1594868;1483208141;asciilifeform;but, notably, winblowz!! supports static exe.
1594869;1483208192;mircea_popescu;this being the difference between a technology company like apple and a media company like yahoo, aka microsoft : the former actually fit gcc / their erstwhile competition in head. the latter just blather on in the hopes the holy paper clip will help with the printing press.
1594870;1483208217;asciilifeform;i dunno that either fit anything at all in head
1594871;1483208227;asciilifeform;crapple stole gcc while it made expedient sense, wholesale, raw
1594872;1483208229;asciilifeform;then -- ditched
1594873;1483208254;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform to say it again : llvm is not "a competitor" for gcc. llvm was written quite exactly with full knowledge of gcc in mind. you know they fully understand how gcc works, and i don't mean on the first order, but on the last, BECAUSE of little signs like these.
1594874;1483208270;asciilifeform;llvm was not written at or by crapple
1594875;1483208272;mircea_popescu;llvm is, from a gnoseologic point of view, a superset of gcc, the upper node.
1594876;1483208274;asciilifeform;sponsored -- yes.
1594877;1483208288;mircea_popescu;you are going to examine the glue holding labels to bottles now ?
1594878;1483208297;mircea_popescu;"apple", does it make it better if it's "apple" in quotes ?
1594879;1483208322;asciilifeform;regardless of whom -- expand on 'they knew'
1594880;1483208331;phf;windows for a longest time had a very stable abi, as per "you can run windows 95 programs still!1", where's i suspect mac os x probably doesn't. it's the same problem on openbsd, sure you can static link, but you will have to recompile after the next release.
1594881;1483208344;asciilifeform;noshit 'they knew', all compilers are built on roughly same scheme, just as all airplanes have wings, fuselage, etc
1594882;1483208367;asciilifeform;phf: correct, it does not. whereas win95 proggies typically still run
1594883;1483208387;mircea_popescu;someone, or for the sake of rigor, "someone", a tom knight equivalent, sat down and read all of gcc, slowly, loaded it in head. i do not mean, "one version". i mean ALL of gcc, like i know words in the sense of who is their mother and their father and the fine degree derivatives in all trees in ten languages. all of gcc.
1594884;1483208391;asciilifeform;phf: 'impoverished' os is a plus from this pov
1594885;1483208414;mircea_popescu;and then thought abvout it, and then came up with a model for a world which includes gcc, and then ran simulations of that world and evaluated which moves best serve a specified interest.
1594886;1483208419;mircea_popescu;and thus llvm was born.
1594887;1483208454;mircea_popescu;but not just llvm - the whole world exists, and it produces things such as "'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend tha
1594888;1483208454;asciilifeform;i dun see this as a necessary hypothesis. i dare say that if i had to write a c compiler, it would end up looking somewhat more like llvm than gcc.
1594889;1483208454;mircea_popescu;t you consider the limitations of statically linking very carefully, and consider your customer and their needs, plus the long-term support you will need to provide."
1594890;1483208477;mircea_popescu;which is NOT a random string, nor the result of a markov process, run on dry sand or wet protein.
1594891;1483208483;asciilifeform;thing caught on not strictly because crapple et al pushed it, but because genuinely modular. even though it sucks in almost every other respect.
1594892;1483208495;asciilifeform;recall the solrodar experiment.
1594893;1483208498;mircea_popescu;yes, but you miss that very point. it is not "somewhat like", it is exactly and precisely like the thing it is.
1594894;1483208554;mircea_popescu;the "apple software ecosystem", while on a level dysfunctional as ben_vulpes oft informs us, is on another edge intricately designed.
1594895;1483208569;mircea_popescu;more so, i dare say, than the lisp machine ever was.
1594896;1483208586;mircea_popescu;not as productively, yes, not for the end user, at any rate, but there never was a rule that intelligence be benevolent.
1594897;1483208610;asciilifeform;moar so than winblows, at any rate. 'nextstep' was, at any rate, architected from the ground
1594898;1483208621;asciilifeform;(modern crapple is, under the cover, still largely nextstep)
1594899;1483208631;mircea_popescu;much more so than windows,  which is entirely indistinguishable from yahoo, or time warner, or ibm.
1594900;1483208701;trinque;perhaps worth reminding whose hardware comprises much of the modern NSA panopticon
1594901;1483208750;mircea_popescu;this apple, nsa, whatever, nobody gives a shit, but this "apple" is the empire's last hope, half-Alphabet-half-AAPL-half-contractors whatever it is.
1594902;1483208765;mircea_popescu;"it could buy russia" does not mean - it could. it means - if anyone on our side has a prayer - them.
1594903;1483208943;mircea_popescu;and it is a hope based on something, right or wrong. "is russia more complex than gcc ?"
1594904;1483209038;mircea_popescu;what rms thought, in his amusing naivite, to be defending hadn't in fact existed for a decade by the point news of it reached him. fruhlingserwachen, the steiner offensive.
1594905;1483209121;asciilifeform;update re phuctor: i did finally turn up the dupes.
1594906;1483209131;asciilifeform;next step is to find out how they got in.
1594907;1483209145;asciilifeform;(dupes ~mods~ in table. which should not be a thing.)
1594908;1483209695;trinque;mircea_popescu: I've wondered whether it is apt to call these human aggregates gods, in that the term was a passable label for distributed-world-model running among nodes of a wot
1594909;1483209745;trinque;but then I don't know enough about that end of things to know whether the ideology actually flowed from a particular fountain
1594910;1483209777;mircea_popescu;i would say it is improper, because the fundamental quality of a god is that it's not constructible, much like no woman ever came in the shape of a lego set, be the parts delivered together or scattered in the landscape. conversely if you prefer, it is not proper because gods contain the metaphysical equivalent of a teleological dimension.
1594911;1483209789;mircea_popescu;in any case, no, the clay colossi are all that - machinery, golums.
1594912;1483209807;trinque;hm
1594913;1483209839;mircea_popescu;to be a god they must have purpose without purpose ; both observably and demonstrably the Central Committee (which is what this is) do not.
1594914;1483209876;trinque;it may just be an internal bias of mine that these people couldn't have ever consciously designed anything
1594915;1483209896;mircea_popescu;the golumn also doesn't consciously anything, which is why dogs jack off but golums do not.
1594916;1483210247;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594814 << bernstein's algo does not use a running global product. see his 'finding the smooth parts of integers'.
1594917;1483210247;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 06:54 davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594446 <<< i'm confused, isn't the 8-ball a set of factors that you multiplied into the running product, and for which 're-running' makes little sense, as being already present in the global factors product?
1594918;1483210260;mircea_popescu;man, thinks and therefore is, artifact, willed therefore here, but god is here before any will, and its being outside the possible scope of any will. which is why the ancient literary convention of the hero's journey : gods can't change. they don't give up smoking.
1594919;1483210380;mircea_popescu;the brightest minds among the sheep in classics class will ask why, when apollo's arrows rained on them, did not the victims shoot him back ?
1594920;1483210390;mircea_popescu;indeed.
1594921;1483210475;asciilifeform;i'dve told'em 'next time it rains and soaks your undershirt, you should rain and soak ~its~ undershirt right back'
1594922;1483210488;trinque;lol
1594923;1483210495;mircea_popescu;you don't make a very good teacher, even as you're a fine engineer!
1594924;1483210506;*;asciilifeform not about to change professions any time soon
1594925;1483210523;mircea_popescu;the answer doesn't have to be correct, moreover can't even be. it helps the bleating kids if it is meaningful. to them.
1594926;1483210544;asciilifeform;this job needs cutting edge expert zoologist(zoophiliac?)
1594927;1483210554;asciilifeform;howthefuck would i know what is meaningful to sheep(le)
1594928;1483210556;mircea_popescu;myah.
1594929;1483210595;*;asciilifeform still boggled over the dog-woman in mircea_popescu's tale
1594930;1483210608;mircea_popescu;which one ?
1594931;1483210617;asciilifeform;last 3
1594932;1483210626;phf;can write reams of koan annotations "next time asciilifeform shouldn't forget his umbrella!"
1594933;1483210634;mircea_popescu;heh. africa.
1594934;1483210644;mircea_popescu;it's where hiv comes from, you know ?
1594935;1483210649;asciilifeform;i read the whole thing , to date, while waiting for massive megaturd of phuctor to pump over to this half of the planet so i could rebuild working model of entire thing here in my torture room
1594936;1483210651;asciilifeform;(which is done)
1594937;1483210686;asciilifeform;there are now 2 identical (though not, at this moment, synchronized) phuctrons
1594938;1483211015;trinque;as all gods of which I'm aware are written (willed) narrative, there's an interesting membrane there
1594939;1483211042;trinque;I suppose for now there is an equivalence between god and golum in my perhaps thick skull
1594940;1483211073;mircea_popescu;how's this unlike there being an equivalence between if and for ?
1594941;1483211097;mircea_popescu;they're different concepts, they do different things, what sort of code results from randomly switching if and for calls around ?
1594942;1483211115;asciilifeform;i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i have a refreshed (nonexpir) pubkey as of 5 min ago
1594943;1483211117;asciilifeform;where to put it
1594944;1483211125;asciilifeform;(same moduli)
1594945;1483211126;trinque;I'm saying a man creates "apollo" the symbol as an act of will
1594946;1483211131;mircea_popescu;"but they're both written down with letters". so what if they are. if i shoot an hour of a woman fucking half a dozen men, thereby i've constructed a woman ?
1594947;1483211134;trinque;yet another man perceives him as bedrock reality there before the stars
1594948;1483211147;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc has been updated.
1594949;1483211165;asciilifeform;sha512:c3ae6fb22bdb8a60c55d14d04b9b0f5b10b808357df0046bcedaa2305232a5c48f36af48564de6ce55d9b99b0ca56482fc587e96f4d59f9911524bee7e749c04
1594950;1483211202;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your plan on transfer of authority among keys relies on what exactly ? an unnanounced, ad hoc scheme whereby the weakest link is your continued voice in chan ?
1594951;1483211212;asciilifeform;holy fuck mircea_popescu , SAME MODULUS
1594952;1483211216;mircea_popescu;ah
1594953;1483211217;asciilifeform;pgpdump -i.
1594954;1483211234;asciilifeform;just scrubbed the expiry, because i am tired of doing this every new year.
1594955;1483211238;mircea_popescu;i read 2 lines out of 3 before throwing a fit.
1594956;1483211273;*;asciilifeform developed through deliberate effort the habit of 'read whole thing before spewing chunks'
1594957;1483211296;trinque;ye gods
1594958;1483211300;trinque;lol
1594959;1483211306;trinque;asciilifeform: I will inspect the key then pop it in
1594960;1483211310;mircea_popescu;now do me a favour and also deliver the habit of sorting what you say in order of node importance!
1594961;1483211323;asciilifeform;trinque: please do inspect mine or any other such key, also good habit.
1594962;1483211448;mircea_popescu;"i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i scrubbed the expiry off my pgp key, which of course makes a new pubkey even if it is the same modulus as before" not "i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i have a refreshed (nonexpir) pubkey as of 5 min ago"
1594963;1483211594;*;asciilifeform looks forward to the demolition of koch-pgp.
1594964;1483211607;asciilifeform;it was a perlism and i won't miss it.
1594965;1483211621;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1594966;1483211673;*;asciilifeform bbl -- meat.
1594967;1483211685;mircea_popescu;but to continue, is the number 4 like that, one man made, another perceived ? how about fire ? was fire invented, like "the united states of america", like any fine story ?
1594968;1483211776;trinque;I can see the distinction there.
1594969;1483211783;mircea_popescu;apollo the symbol strives to mark down the discovery of apollo the god, much like  ٤ stives to mark down the number 4. you wouldn't know it to look at the poor thing, but it is what the ~actual~ arabic numeral for a set of four items looks like.
1594970;1483211869;trinque;I would say then that I have something political signified by the symbol god in my table, and have no allocated term for the other thing
1594971;1483211891;mircea_popescu;aha.
1594972;1483211963;mircea_popescu;and in this perspective, arguments as to the existence of gods become truly amusing. even in a world in which, through some strange workings of happenstance, no set of four items did in fact exist, nor ever had, and supposedly never will... there's also no number 4 ?
1594973;1483211967;mircea_popescu;in what sense, "Existence"
1594974;1483211978;mircea_popescu;and in what sense, "specified"
1594975;1483212108;mircea_popescu;and on the other hand, "the number four told me to headbutt a door!". really, it did ? i suppose, perhaps, if the number four is followed by a double-sifr and occurs on your blood test result sheet right where the locals wrote "glucemia" it may be said "the number four told me to stop eating icecream", but it is rather forcing the point.
1594976;1483212349;mircea_popescu;and it just goes on from there, "the real number 4 is the root of polynomials in my daily life and so i believe in it ; but the number 4+i priviledges the properties of abstract spaces over things much more important to us and therefore...i do not consent to its existence." hurr.
1594977;1483212496;*;trinque is here, furrowing brow, while some neurons work their way from here to the thread re: void
1594978;1483212554;mircea_popescu;are you familiar with the von neumann set ?
1594979;1483212690;trinque;no, and I perceive that proceeding further will require more than a casual understanding of mathematics.
1594980;1483212770;mircea_popescu;fortunately, mathematics is simple. V is the set of all sets. by convention, the first index, V0, is the empty set.
1594981;1483212782;mircea_popescu;V1 is the set of the set containing the empty set.
1594982;1483212814;mircea_popescu;V5 contains 65536 elements. V6 contains 2*65536 elements.
1594983;1483212882;mircea_popescu;when you first expand your sex life to include a woman, you vividly remember her, and everyhing, minute detail. and once it further expands to include two, still. and three, and slightly dimmer four. by six its growing steadily dimmer, and maybe by the 7th is the first time you start losing track of them.
1594984;1483212926;mircea_popescu;reality diverges much more slowly thay representation. but this inequality offers no challenges to the validity of either reality or representation. they are what they are, they do what they do.
1594985;1483212973;mircea_popescu;(i mean 2^65536 above, obviously, not 2*)
1594986;1483213671;trinque;it is the empty set that explodes in circles in my mind, not that I deny that it must be named first. that the definition of all things has void as a dependency induces virtigo when looking out at the world.
1594987;1483213705;trinque;*vertigo
1594988;1483214127;mircea_popescu;everyone's afraid of dying, to some degree.
1594989;1483214137;trinque;it is precisely that.
1594990;1483214173;trinque;and aside an aversion to pain or suffering or whatever.
1594991;1483214189;*;trinque had both leg and own cock chopped open while awake on separate occasions!
1594992;1483214197;mircea_popescu;sure.
1594993;1483214450;trinque;thanks, I'll have to be off for now.
1594994;1483216400;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-petrus-has-invited-us/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Petrus has invited us
1594995;1483224562;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2016/12/shinohais-2016-end-of-the-year-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-tmr/ << Qntra - Shinohai's 2016 End Of The Year Shitcoin Roundup Xtend (TM)(R)
1594996;1483225493;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/disgrace-he-glances-across-at-lucy/ << Trilema - Disgrace - He glances across at Lucy
1594997;1483226145;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-lucy-returns/ << "If he had a a gun he would probably be dead now"
1594998;1483228559;mircea_popescu;ty