1418577;1456790638;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00058663 = 21.8813 BTC [+] {2} 
1418578;1456791491;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00058156 = 20.7908 BTC [-] {3} 
1418579;1456792284;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.0005812 = 19.5864 BTC [-] {2} 
1418580;1456792345;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22050 @ 0.00058874 = 12.9817 BTC [+] {4} 
1418581;1456793036;deedbot-;[Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Report - http://qntra.net/2016/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2016-report/
1418582;1456793047;BingoBoingo;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/24MYF1J.txt
1418583;1456793048;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pmp7OE )
1418584;1456793052;deedbot-;rejected: 1
1418585;1456793087;BingoBoingo;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/0X484WG.txt
1418586;1456793089;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pmpeJO )
1418587;1456793090;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1418588;1456793199;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00059143 = 20.8775 BTC [+]
1418589;1456793259;jurov;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418008 lol i measure my coffee consumption by "does the shit smell like coffee? if not, all ok"
1418590;1456793259;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 06:24:02; BingoBoingo: Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot?
1418591;1456793372;jurov;but i started to mix it with cereal/chicory coffee to make it easy on stomach
1418592;1456793531;BingoBoingo;Ah, a couple days after I open a can I'll start adding cold milk to it when I pour for the same reason
1418593;1456793649;BingoBoingo;I don't really have chicory around this time of year
1418594;1456794053;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32342 @ 0.0005812 = 18.7972 BTC [-] {2} 
1418595;1456794358;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28002 @ 0.0005812 = 16.2748 BTC [-] {2} 
1418596;1456794923;deedbot-;[Trilema] What MP wants MP gets, the funarg problem and other Mecano considerations - http://trilema.com/2016/what-mp-wants-mp-gets-the-funarg-problem-and-other-mecano-considerations/
1418597;1456794984;ben_vulpes;looks like i changed nicks 7/29/2014
1418598;1456794985;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418468 << no, it's an argument in flavor of linux.
1418599;1456794985;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 19:42:04; trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux.
1418600;1456795090;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40036 @ 0.00058011 = 23.2253 BTC [-] {3} 
1418601;1456795099;ben_vulpes;what flavor of linux though?
1418602;1456795212;mircea_popescu;nono, in flavor of linux. like, in the style of bosch.
1418603;1456795283;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418478 << i vaguely recall BingoBoingo sort-of trying
1418604;1456795283;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 20:19:25; asciilifeform: anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ?
1418605;1456795409;BingoBoingo;I have a partially trb-icized 7 series in the name of implementation pluralism. No earthly idea what all changes happened.
1418606;1456795480;mircea_popescu;on bsd ?
1418607;1456795496;asciilifeform;phf had stator on bsd.
1418608;1456795502;asciilifeform;but no one, to date - rotor.
1418609;1456795517;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00057892 = 11.0574 BTC [-] {3} 
1418610;1456795540;asciilifeform;now rotor is not ~quite~ as necessary on bsd, because drepper is absent there. BUT we still need deterministic nailed-down toolchain, esp. for when we finally do the deterministic binary thing.
1418611;1456795578;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00058768 = 23.0371 BTC [+] {2} 
1418612;1456795605;mircea_popescu;aha
1418613;1456795626;mircea_popescu;besides, as per satoshi's argument ("no, don't bring it on"), might not be the smartest thing in the world to give drepper incentive to exist on bsd anyway
1418614;1456795650;asciilifeform;the idea is to categorically cut off the very possibility of drepper existing.
1418615;1456795655;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: On OpenBSD. It's the one I chopped together mostly while drunk and still works.
1418616;1456795667;mircea_popescu;aha
1418617;1456795751;BingoBoingo;Dropped in low-s a month or two (mebbe 3) before trb, has -minrelaytx flag, from trb orphanage slaughters and malleus were definitely implemented. Other things but would take reading to recall them.
1418618;1456795815;mircea_popescu;cool.
1418619;1456795842;ben_vulpes;hue, ether's hardforking already?
1418620;1456795867;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.50000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b7
1418621;1456795887;BingoBoingo;oh? did they drop the old bottle with the precipitated peroxides already?
1418622;1456795912;ben_vulpes;https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-2.mediawiki and https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-7.md, although the latter is only noted as a hardfork on a blog page
1418623;1456795913;assbot;EIPs/eip-2.mediawiki at master · ethereum/EIPs · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TMDFSG )
1418624;1456795914;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TMDFSI )
1418625;1456795953;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418548 << ben_dog!
1418626;1456795953;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 23:13:58; *: ben_vulpes shits in sink, eats from toilet bowl, never knew to do anything else before 2013
1418627;1456796035;mod6;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-March/000217.html
1418628;1456796037;assbot;[BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1ndQyZg )
1418629;1456796042;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: Seriously, they heated their Ether up into a gas?! No wonder it is already hardforking everywhere.
1418630;1456796067;ben_vulpes;tastes great with alf_dog
1418631;1456796127;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10817 @ 0.00057878 = 6.2607 BTC [-] {2} 
1418632;1456796188;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35583 @ 0.00057749 = 20.5488 BTC [-] {3} 
1418633;1456796371;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00058798 = 31.0747 BTC [+] {2} 
1418634;1456796538;ben_vulpes;why are all of the self-hosted rss readers written in php
1418635;1456796558;ben_vulpes;i found one in rubby
1418636;1456796646;fluffypony;ben_vulpes: because PHP is secure and easy to use
1418637;1456796660;fluffypony;everything should just be written in PHP
1418638;1456796670;fluffypony;Bitcoin should switch to the Timekoin codebase
1418639;1456796714;*;ben_vulpes bites
1418640;1456796737;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26450 @ 0.00059143 = 15.6433 BTC [+]
1418641;1456796775;ben_vulpes;heh
1418642;1456796778;ben_vulpes;gold, fluffypony
1418643;1456796797;fluffypony;btw did anyone else notice that RealSolid is back?
1418644;1456796878;fluffypony;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1381328.0
1418645;1456796879;assbot;MicroCash. Now in Alpha 2 release. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TMG67K )
1418646;1456797078;ben_vulpes;> juices flowing
1418647;1456797774;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25502 @ 0.00058137 = 14.8261 BTC [-] {2} 
1418648;1456798066;mats;hot
1418649;1456798201;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28185 @ 0.00058138 = 16.3862 BTC [+]
1418650;1456799087;phf;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366068
1418651;1456799088;assbot;Logged on 11-01-2016 05:12:12; phf: ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd.
1418652;1456799092;phf;and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366069
1418653;1456799092;assbot;Logged on 11-01-2016 05:13:29; phf: the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction
1418654;1456799147;phf;now that there was a suggestion of treating specific openbsd version as baseline, i think problem was that i built in on one openbsd and tried running on another
1418655;1456799202;phf;node was running fine inside a virtualbox openbsd though, same one that i built it on.
1418656;1456799207;asciilifeform;wai wut, openbsd has no stable abi at all ?!!!
1418657;1456799228;phf;hehehe
1418658;1456799258;mircea_popescu;fluffypony> everything should just be written in PHP  << word.
1418659;1456799291;phf;asciilifeform: they take a "we'll make sure to break abi, rebuild from source every time" position
1418660;1456799305;mircea_popescu;not even sure this is wrong.
1418661;1456799446;asciilifeform;this is only a good thing in the sense that spraying ddt in every room of your house is.
1418662;1456799451;asciilifeform;yes, no mosquitoes.
1418663;1456799476;asciilifeform;but this is simply yet another way for mosquitoes to win.
1418664;1456799500;mircea_popescu;i guess.
1418665;1456799537;mircea_popescu;in other news, til i learned that the criteria for "fridge big enough" is : if one discrete item won't fit, push. if it now fits, fridge is big enough. if it still won't fit, "wtf is with these tiny-ass euro style fridges already!!1"
1418666;1456799543;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15170 @ 0.00058571 = 8.8852 BTC [+] {2} 
1418667;1456799682;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was tempted throughout eulora lifetime to go "fu, no binaries, compile, always". and i can still contemplate why this would be the case with trb.
1418668;1456799691;mircea_popescu;heck, isn't the whole v system technically speaking just this ?
1418669;1456799721;asciilifeform;sure is.
1418670;1456799729;mircea_popescu;so then.... still not sure this is wrong.
1418671;1456799738;mircea_popescu;ddt persuasiveness notwithstanding.
1418672;1456799755;asciilifeform;it isn't ~wrong~, merely annoying.
1418673;1456799756;mircea_popescu;the brothel is also "just another way for housewife to win", at least according to her.
1418674;1456799769;asciilifeform;gotta decide how much ddt you want to spray in your living room.
1418675;1456799775;asciilifeform;this is in some ways a personal choice.
1418676;1456799797;phf;i thought whole exercise is to produce byte to byte equivalent binaries, as another step in verification process. "sealed vpatches -> press -> binary -> shasum"
1418677;1456799820;mircea_popescu;where this comparison breaks down is that your biology is fundamentally cunt-based and perl-run. you necessarily respirate the ddt. meanwhile, your mental life is supposed to be hermetic and under your control. you shouldn't fucking respirate the environment wtf.
1418678;1456799830;mircea_popescu;phf yeah.
1418679;1456799836;asciilifeform;(the ultimate thermonuclear version of this is to ~randomly generate~ a cpu arch, instantiate on an fpga ~and generate a compiler~, and compile for THAT!  and i was very sad as a student to discover that one cristina cifuentes invented this long before i did)
1418680;1456799840;mircea_popescu;and i appreciate your "is to produce" construction :)
1418681;1456799905;mircea_popescu;for they not blessed with knowledge of actual languages, there's significant aspectual difference between "is to produce" which talks of the state, like to be, and "produces", which talks of movement.
1418682;1456799909;asciilifeform;and wow, that name was buried in the nethermost depths of my skull before this convo.
1418683;1456799925;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform women in tech.
1418684;1456799934;asciilifeform;i have nfi if it even was an actual woman.
1418685;1456799946;asciilifeform;was just a name.
1418686;1456799967;mircea_popescu;yeah is woman, worked for oracle.
1418687;1456799973;mircea_popescu;you mean her, no ?
1418688;1456799978;asciilifeform;probably
1418689;1456799983;mircea_popescu;reverse compilation techniques etc
1418690;1456800019;asciilifeform;http://zyloid.com/recomposer/files/decompilation_thesis.pdf << aha
1418691;1456800021;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21y2t6Y )
1418692;1456800021;asciilifeform;^ thesis
1418693;1456800047;asciilifeform;had an almost-useful x86 decompiler before 'hexray'.
1418694;1456800051;asciilifeform;first, afaik.
1418695;1456800519;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18309 @ 0.00057733 = 10.5703 BTC [-] {2} 
1418696;1456800580;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4441 @ 0.00057628 = 2.5593 BTC [-]
1418697;1456800909;asciilifeform;now i gotta ask, how does mircea_popescu know that it was 'actual woman'
1418698;1456800921;asciilifeform;met in the flesh ?
1418699;1456800980;mircea_popescu;nah.
1418700;1456801026;asciilifeform;https://cryptome.org/2016/02/usg-apple-edny-029.pdf << lulz! apple 'wins'
1418701;1456801028;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21y4ShZ )
1418702;1456801039;asciilifeform;mega-muppet-warz
1418703;1456801678;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21638 @ 0.00057628 = 12.4695 BTC [-]
1418704;1456802166;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00058594 = 6.7969 BTC [+] {3} 
1418705;1456802471;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00059143 = 10.8232 BTC [+]
1418706;1456802661;ben_vulpes;the only line i have for coworkers and plebs on this topic is "you haven't thought for half a second why the /nsa/ didn't bring this suit?"
1418707;1456802794;mircea_popescu;on which side ?
1418708;1456802959;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00059143 = 11.7103 BTC [+]
1418709;1456803020;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64950 @ 0.00057612 = 37.419 BTC [-] {3} 
1418710;1456803044;ben_vulpes;the fbi's side - why would they argue apple's side?
1418711;1456803053;ben_vulpes;but really it's ambiguous for a reason
1418712;1456803090;ben_vulpes;got someone bought in on the "drop on first packet or gtfo" mentality, but still have to conquer the "well first you have to transfer the IP buffered packets into user space" mindset
1418713;1456803110;ben_vulpes;"because lol what we're going to fab our own chips?"
1418714;1456803113;ben_vulpes;mwell now that you ask...
1418715;1456803189;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what's your cad poison of choice?
1418716;1456803456;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> got someone bought in on the "drop on first packet or gtfo" mentality, but still have to conquer the "well first you have to transfer the IP buffered packets into user space" mindset  <<< can you say this in other words ?
1418717;1456803630;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60500 @ 0.00059143 = 35.7815 BTC [+]
1418718;1456803700;ben_vulpes;"yeah man! big challenge though is to get it to operate at line speed."
1418719;1456803736;ben_vulpes;"pff line speed. you still need to get the buffered packets from the kernel into userspace, and that's an abstraction you'll have a hard time getting around."
1418720;1456803770;ben_vulpes;because the counterparty in this conversation is not thinking of gossipd as a device but a proggy that runs on a computer.
1418721;1456804217;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i have a (unpublished, for good reasons) prototype that doesn't have 'kernel' or 'userland' at all, but just this bare metal thing that sets up the nic ring buffer (coreboot payload) and loops, checks rsa, retransmits on other nic...
1418722;1456804238;asciilifeform;on ordinary (well, 'pcengines' pancake) computer.
1418723;1456804283;asciilifeform;asm, it's good for you.
1418724;1456804356;mats;that sounds fun
1418725;1456804362;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70150 @ 0.00059146 = 41.4909 BTC [+] {2} 
1418726;1456804402;asciilifeform;mats: the idea is, a kind of line-speed (GB ethernet) wall, where crud goes in, and valid in-wot gossipd out.
1418727;1456804412;asciilifeform;if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid.
1418728;1456804617;mats;did you actually write the routines in asm?
1418729;1456804630;asciilifeform;aha.
1418730;1456804666;asciilifeform;but doesn't work as well as i'd like, not line speed (uses dumb bignum)
1418731;1456804698;asciilifeform;i will pick this back up again when there is reason to.
1418732;1456804900;asciilifeform;the idea is very simple, anybody who really wants to can pick his favourite nic chipset and implement.
1418733;1456804940;asciilifeform;not much in terms of moving parts, ought to handily fit in a nic boot rom.
1418734;1456805216;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80050 @ 0.00059441 = 47.5825 BTC [+] {7} 
1418735;1456805278;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00058718 = 28.5369 BTC [-] {2} 
1418736;1456805948;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26070 @ 0.00058718 = 15.3078 BTC [-] {2} 
1418737;1456806013;mircea_popescu;<asciilifeform> if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid. << this sounds like the ticket.
1418738;1456806680;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's what 'line speed' means.
1418739;1456806691;asciilifeform;it means that the crud doesn't affect the valid payloads.
1418740;1456806697;asciilifeform;in whatever way.
1418741;1456806710;asciilifeform;(at least, not after it leaves isp)
1418742;1456806894;mircea_popescu;aha.
1418743;1456806900;mircea_popescu;i could see even dedicating a box to this.
1418744;1456806909;mircea_popescu;make it a nice firewall.
1418745;1456806912;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's sorta how it is meant to work.
1418746;1456806945;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: prototyped on one of these, https://rhomberg.org/images/apu-oberseite.jpg
1418747;1456806947;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Seh15M )
1418748;1456807062;asciilifeform;^ these are prolly the only 100% open x86 box presently made
1418749;1456807076;asciilifeform;(no-turd firmware, full schematics)
1418750;1456807235;mircea_popescu;aha
1418751;1456807534;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15806 @ 0.00057979 = 9.1642 BTC [-]
1418752;1456807672;punkman;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcWIHP3UYAIO3uC.jpg:large
1418753;1456807673;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sei9X6 )
1418754;1456807961;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15847 @ 0.00058068 = 9.202 BTC [+] {2} 
1418755;1456809242;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81067 @ 0.00058044 = 47.0545 BTC [-]
1418756;1456809669;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51722 @ 0.00058227 = 30.1162 BTC [+] {2} 
1418757;1456809730;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70655 @ 0.00058231 = 41.1431 BTC [+]
1418758;1456809913;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88741 @ 0.00058908 = 52.2755 BTC [+] {2} 
1418759;1456810366;ben_vulpes;jurov: highly nifty
1418760;1456810388;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: and the reason you picked tinyscheme over say ecl is...footprint? dreppers in ecl?
1418761;1456810401;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65926 @ 0.00059659 = 39.3308 BTC [+] {4} 
1418762;1456810706;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8759 @ 0.00059563 = 5.2171 BTC [-]
1418763;1456811813;deedbot-;[Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Waiting for Taleb. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/29/waiting-for-taleb/
1418764;1456811996;punkman;http://40.media.tumblr.com/2ca58ec1f4c5e9433a1819e5768ba8cc/tumblr_nxlqxvLkvx1uyzll2o1_1280.jpg
1418765;1456811997;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QoJn8J )
1418766;1456812116;ben_vulpes;welp
1418767;1456812127;ben_vulpes;flycheck just deleted the contents of an entire buffer
1418768;1456812131;ben_vulpes;there's one for the dustbin.
1418769;1456812780;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31608 @ 0.00058461 = 18.4784 BTC [-]
1418770;1456814793;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00058406 = 8.9653 BTC [-]
1418771;1456816564;punkman;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFHJ41ktt3Q
1418772;1456816565;assbot;Merle Haggard -- Are The Good Times Really Over - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/21yCNY1 )
1418773;1456816806;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67792 @ 0.00058432 = 39.6122 BTC [+] {2} 
1418774;1456816867;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00059023 = 16.4674 BTC [+]
1418775;1456816928;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14321 @ 0.00059023 = 8.4527 BTC [+]
1418776;1456817304;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 30.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b127
1418777;1456817416;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43951 @ 0.000591 = 25.975 BTC [+]
1418778;1456817809;ben_vulpes;HOOOOOOOOOO
1418779;1456818148;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6087 @ 0.00059023 = 3.5927 BTC [-]
1418780;1456818209;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90516 @ 0.0005816 = 52.6441 BTC [-] {4} 
1418781;1456819307;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16356 @ 0.00057992 = 9.4852 BTC [-] {2} 
1418782;1456819838;ben_vulpes;phf: here's a stumper
1418783;1456819884;ben_vulpes;while last night the swank flags worked just handily, tonight, passing the swank flag to a booting bitcoind results in an error, "too short", from scheme.cpp
1418784;1456819917;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52330 @ 0.00057932 = 30.3158 BTC [-] {2} 
1418785;1456819945;ben_vulpes;running the /exact same/ bitcoind command runs something that i can telnet into and scream lisp at
1418786;1456820292;ben_vulpes;wtf this was working yesterday
1418787;1456820497;botneko-chan;Why all that panic about filled up backlog and slow transcations? Sent btc today with 0.0005 fee and it got 6 confirmations in 2h
1418788;1456820806;ben_vulpes;there's no actual panic, botneko-chan. there are a zillion for-hire-for-pennies social media accounts supporting some nsa plants attempts to matter with kindergarten grade psyops.
1418789;1456820960;ben_vulpes;phf, nevermind, i'm a classic core derp
1418790;1456821065;botneko-chan;I support Core too
1418791;1456821163;ben_vulpes;botneko-chan: what is Core?
1418792;1456821262;botneko-chan;I mean main bitcoin dev team and so, not a forks like Classic or XT
1418793;1456821330;ben_vulpes;what do the Core people think about increasing the block size?
1418794;1456821424;ben_vulpes;botneko-chan: ^^
1418795;1456821628;botneko-chan;I'm actually not very interested in btc politics, but in my opinion if increase block size then miners would get less profit from tx processing when there would be no new btc mined. Mining would become non-rentable and hashpower will decrease after some time then making easier for someone to get 51% just by turning on ol ASIC that was turned off because of low profit. I'm okay with current blocks and higher fees, in my o
1418796;1456821684;botneko-chan;not for cents, there is need to design overlay network for faster low-fee small payment processing instead of increasing block size
1418797;1456821747;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134032 @ 0.00057928 = 77.6421 BTC [-] {2} 
1418798;1456821875;ben_vulpes;not interested in btc politics botneko-chan ? just in it for the ddos?
1418799;1456822011;botneko-chan;I'm using bitcoin and like it, but wasn't tracking fork-related discussions before someone payd for DDoS'ing Classic
1418800;1456822052;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74092 @ 0.00057858 = 42.8681 BTC [-]
1418801;1456822371;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395250 << asciilifeform what was the actual trigger for the blackhole? requesting a specific transaction?
1418802;1456822371;assbot;Logged on 03-02-2016 16:52:56; ascii_butugychag: blackhole results when the worker thread (the one that handles nearly everything) is wedged
1418803;1456822441;ben_vulpes;i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
1418804;1456822446;ben_vulpes;!up cazalla
1418805;1456822448;ben_vulpes;hey boss
1418806;1456822453;cazalla;thanks ben_vulpes, good evening :)
1418807;1456822465;Naphex;morning
1418808;1456822468;punkman;ben_vulpes: compiles pretty fast
1418809;1456822530;ben_vulpes;punkman: like 10ms? 100ms? 1s?
1418810;1456822536;ben_vulpes;cazalla: good to see you key in hand
1418811;1456822550;ben_vulpes;heh
1418812;1456822567;ben_vulpes;briefly considered 'cock in hand'
1418813;1456822616;cazalla;ben_vulpes, i wonder which i actually value more :P
1418814;1456822617;ben_vulpes;hm actually i upped you so how would i know
1418815;1456822631;cazalla;well, i just auth'd so no matter
1418816;1456822652;ben_vulpes;yeah, i saw the second go through, but i don't think there's a guarantee that *you* did the second one.
1418817;1456822658;ben_vulpes;can we down each other?
1418818;1456822660;ben_vulpes;!down cazalla
1418819;1456822662;punkman;ben_vulpes: a few seconds maybe
1418820;1456822665;cazalla;!down ben_vulpes
1418821;1456822669;cazalla;guess not
1418822;1456822676;ben_vulpes;!up SuchWow
1418823;1456822679;ben_vulpes;!down SuchWow
1418824;1456822702;ben_vulpes;ah and assbot yelled at me too
1418825;1456822703;ben_vulpes;well hi!
1418826;1456822707;cazalla;likewise
1418827;1456822721;ben_vulpes;!up SuchWow if you have complaints to render feel free to do so here
1418828;1456822723;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27950 @ 0.00058264 = 16.2848 BTC [+] {3} 
1418829;1456822732;SuchWow;Greetings investors
1418830;1456822734;SuchWow;how goes it :)
1418831;1456822743;ben_vulpes;i'll not talk to any 'staff-emeritus' in pm
1418832;1456822743;cazalla;i remember you SuchWow
1418833;1456822747;SuchWow;ben_vulpes: i have no complaints lol
1418834;1456822762;SuchWow;whatever, it's literally true, it's just a tag, get over it lol
1418835;1456822763;ben_vulpes;well i'm just having a conversation with an old friend i haven't seen in a few weeks, but thanks for getting involved!
1418836;1456822773;SuchWow;hey now, you upped me lol :)
1418837;1456822785;ben_vulpes;why so butthurt
1418838;1456822789;SuchWow;about what?
1418839;1456822790;cazalla;still have those dogecoin investments SuchWow ?
1418840;1456822791;ben_vulpes;anyways, how's the second cooking, cazalla ?
1418841;1456822817;SuchWow;cazalla: nah i stopped trading about 1.5 years ago, and have been working IT ever since, no time for trading
1418842;1456822824;cazalla;ben_vulpes, good, missus looks bigger the second time around for some reason, prenatal appt with nurse today confirmed that as well
1418843;1456822827;SuchWow;i still watch charts and chatter daily just to keep up with it for fun tho
1418844;1456822841;ben_vulpes;how many weeks along?
1418845;1456822846;ben_vulpes;b/g?
1418846;1456822852;SuchWow;congrats
1418847;1456822864;cazalla;girl, due early june, 5 months, not sure on weeks top of my head
1418848;1456822869;cazalla;thanks SuchWow
1418849;1456822880;ben_vulpes;that's two!
1418850;1456822883;cazalla;ben_vulpes, how's your little one?
1418851;1456822884;ben_vulpes;two dowries!
1418852;1456822893;ben_vulpes;cazalla: rolled over the other day!
1418853;1456822897;cazalla;fun times :)
1418854;1456822932;ben_vulpes;there's only so much damage the little fuckling can do in 485 ft2
1418855;1456822940;cazalla;i am looking forward to those things again, times seems to have gone so fast with the first, one moment he can barely roll and lift his head but now it's all walkin' and talkin'
1418856;1456822975;ben_vulpes;your first was a male?
1418857;1456822994;cazalla;yeah, a boy named Noah, he turned 2 January just gone
1418858;1456823015;ben_vulpes;pardon, i misremembered.
1418859;1456823026;cazalla;all good, kids galore here these days, easy to lose track
1418860;1456823032;ben_vulpes;starting to give a shit about his dad yet?
1418861;1456823063;cazalla;i get more cuddles and kisses, but he only turns the tears on if mum leaves, not when dad goes out, doesn't seem to care as much
1418862;1456823081;ben_vulpes;MORE FROWNING
1418863;1456823106;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1351555 << four months in, beginning to reheheheally feel this
1418864;1456823106;assbot;Logged on 24-12-2015 08:11:50; *: mircea_popescu is reasonably impressed. had ben_vulpes pegged for "this guy's managed to put himself in a texbook model of a place where guys crack". 
1418865;1456823162;cazalla;it's as hard as it is enjoyable
1418866;1456823164;SuchWow;Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think about ethereum, meaning this chan in general
1418867;1456823193;SuchWow;i'm not super well versed, but it's come up enough to make me go hmm, plus those charts are cray cray lol
1418868;1456823201;punkman;SuchWow: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-01-2016#1381117
1418869;1456823201;assbot;Logged on 22-01-2016 16:20:52; punkman: terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth
1418870;1456823212;cazalla;SuchWow, i don't really follow altcoins, so many of them, so many failures, bitcoin remains #1 despite all the 2.0 shit that has been promised to topple it all these years
1418871;1456823215;punkman;;;calc 0.01507 * 2000
1418872;1456823216;gribble;30.14
1418873;1456823217;SuchWow;punkman: haha
1418874;1456823243;punkman;1 bitcoin of ETH at first sale is worth 30 now
1418875;1456823247;SuchWow;cazalla: that's reasonable. i don't really either, it's just that it's been hard to NOT hear about that one over the last year
1418876;1456823268;SuchWow;yeah pre-sale woulda been nice, but i don't blame myself one bit for not buying the hype
1418877;1456823270;cazalla;SuchWow, even if it was the second coming, idgaf as it will inflate forever
1418878;1456823305;SuchWow;wasn't there some thing where the algo was gonna force POW to stop and switch to POS even tho no POS algo had been invented yet
1418879;1456823309;SuchWow;did they ever fix that i wonder
1418880;1456823331;ben_vulpes;i wonder how the conversation drifted from parenting to shillcoins
1418881;1456823335;cazalla;not sure, from what i know it will change to pos at some point and then inflate the supply forever
1418882;1456823346;ben_vulpes;must be that dogecoin guy again
1418883;1456823355;cazalla;well, back to parent, ben_vulpes did you end up going ahead with co-sleeping?
1418884;1456823361;ben_vulpes;mhm!
1418885;1456823370;cazalla;how is that going?
1418886;1456823382;ben_vulpes;putting the pressure on to get him into his bassinet more regularly
1418887;1456823391;ben_vulpes;well he sleeps through the night, let's start there
1418888;1456823402;ben_vulpes;stirs a mite, gets fed, goes back to sleep.
1418889;1456823403;SuchWow;ben_vulpes: i just asked a question, why so butthurt
1418890;1456823425;cazalla;from 3 months, my boy slept 7pm-7am like clockwork, but when teething began so did around 6 months of shitty sleeping
1418891;1456823430;SuchWow;anyhow, i'll leave you guys to it, be well!
1418892;1456823434;punkman;;;calc 15000 * 0.01507
1418893;1456823434;gribble;226.05
1418894;1456823439;SuchWow;i enjoy our twice a year talks lol
1418895;1456823442;ben_vulpes;some real horrific tiny house gypsy shit: 2 adults, 1 infant and 80lbs of ferocious lovedog in a queen bed
1418896;1456823445;cazalla;lol seeya SuchWow
1418897;1456823472;punkman;anton_osika's 3 btc would be 226 now http://pastebin.com/NbPrZS9A
1418898;1456823473;assbot;-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  Hash: SHA512    Future Delivery Contract  Fo - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1QiQ39M )
1418899;1456823542;cazalla;well, he can always sign and collect it punkman
1418900;1456823656;punkman;probably a bit late for that
1418901;1456823743;ben_vulpes;probably more crowded than anything mircea_popescu engages in willingly, and i don't even like it.
1418902;1456823834;punkman;rental?
1418903;1456823858;ben_vulpes;ofc
1418904;1456823943;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58500 @ 0.000577 = 33.7545 BTC [-] {4} 
1418905;1456824187;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86709 @ 0.00057553 = 49.9036 BTC [-] {5} 
1418906;1456824553;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00057488 = 29.4051 BTC [-] {2} 
1418907;1456825104;punkman;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ccbgb0CXIAEbwoL.jpg:large
1418908;1456825106;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1VOdGcL )
1418909;1456826139;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64668 @ 0.0005744 = 37.1453 BTC [-] {2} 
1418910;1456826200;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10688 @ 0.00057378 = 6.1326 BTC [-]
1418911;1456828030;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16190 @ 0.00058216 = 9.4252 BTC [+]
1418912;1456828396;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36176 @ 0.00058261 = 21.0765 BTC [+] {2} 
1418913;1456828518;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27113 @ 0.0005829 = 15.8042 BTC [+]
1418914;1456828579;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6937 @ 0.00058422 = 4.0527 BTC [+]
1418915;1456828945;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53100 @ 0.00058488 = 31.0571 BTC [+] {4} 
1418916;1456830470;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00058516 = 1.7555 BTC [+]
1418917;1456832396;jurov;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418803 sadly, i don't really have any trb workflow. except that i sit down on it for few days once few months
1418918;1456832396;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
1418919;1456832544;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68450 @ 0.00057521 = 39.3731 BTC [-] {6} 
1418920;1456832849;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00058518 = 19.545 BTC [+] {4} 
1418921;1456833947;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88850 @ 0.00058764 = 52.2118 BTC [+] {4} 
1418922;1456834435;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56311 @ 0.00058419 = 32.8963 BTC [-] {3} 
1418923;1456835289;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.00057354 = 35.244 BTC [-] {4} 
1418924;1456835716;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00057347 = 11.9568 BTC [-] {2} 
1418925;1456836021;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129749 @ 0.00057599 = 74.7341 BTC [+] {2} 
1418926;1456837302;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66657 @ 0.0005899 = 39.321 BTC [+] {5} 
1418927;1456837573;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418918  <<< if I may interject, I have yet to have a trb recompile take longer than an hour even if I bork something up.
1418928;1456837573;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 11:39:56; assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
1418929;1456838156;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00059088 = 9.2177 BTC [+] {3} 
1418930;1456838217;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63800 @ 0.000591 = 37.7058 BTC [+]
1418931;1456838705;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59900 @ 0.00058376 = 34.9672 BTC [-] {2} 
1418932;1456839132;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16568 @ 0.00059099 = 9.7915 BTC [+] {2} 
1418933;1456839247;mircea_popescu;aghagaga punkman what the everloving fuck is that. companion cheesecake for "the graduate" ?
1418934;1456839498;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42270 @ 0.00059178 = 25.0145 BTC [+] {2} 
1418935;1456839724;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418767 << did it have any flies in it ?
1418936;1456839724;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 06:02:07; ben_vulpes: flycheck just deleted the contents of an entire buffer
1418937;1456839742;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22544 @ 0.00059398 = 13.3907 BTC [+] {3} 
1418938;1456839849;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418795 << this has been discussed at length in the logs. yes, it's pretty dumb.
1418939;1456839849;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 08:40:28; botneko-chan: I'm actually not very interested in btc politics, but in my opinion if increase block size then miners would get less profit from tx processing when there would be no new btc mined. Mining would become non-rentable and hashpower will decrease after some time then making easier for someone to get 51% just by turning on ol ASIC that was turned off because of low profit. I'm okay with current blocks and h
1418940;1456839883;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418803 << about 18-20 minutes.
1418941;1456839883;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
1418942;1456840037;mircea_popescu;lol staff emeritus. how's the scam these days SuchWow
1418943;1456840146;mircea_popescu;"noisehole, bullshitter, blowhard, drunkard, sadist, rapist, all-around disgrace to the sad sad State of Bitcoin (and a passive-aggressive plagiarist, too, to top a cherry on the shit-pan-kake!)" da fuck did you do adlai !
1418944;1456840242;mircea_popescu;!up SuchWow
1418945;1456840247;mircea_popescu;!gettrust assbot SuchWow
1418946;1456840247;assbot;SuchWow is not registered in WoT.
1418947;1456840251;mircea_popescu;o.O
1418948;1456840253;mircea_popescu;get in the wot, wut!
1418949;1456840264;SuchWow;sorry, i have split screen serverside msgs
1418950;1456840277;SuchWow;so didn't realize my response wasn't going through lol. i
1418951;1456840293;SuchWow;[08:48:40] <SuchWow> mircea_popescu: you guys are so pompous lol...i haven't been involved in crypto, trading or otherwise, for almost 2 year. Doge seems to fine, still has a small community (moreso than litecoin anyways), and i've been watching crypto in general just for fun. Eth seems interesting, but still not convinced.
1418952;1456840295;SuchWow;[08:49:05] <+mircea_popescu> "noisehole, bullshitter, blowhard, drunkard, sadist, rapist, all-around disgrace to the sad sad State of Bitcoin (and a passive-aggressive plagiarist, too, to top a cherry on the shit-pan-kake!)" da fuck did you do adlai !
1418953;1456840297;SuchWow;[08:49:05] <SuchWow> mircea_popescu: how is bitcoin and all of your various endeavours whatever they may be?
1418954;1456840299;SuchWow;[08:49:16] <SuchWow> (i won't pretend to act like i know you because, i don't)
1418955;1456840301;SuchWow;[08:49:46] <SuchWow> (just as you literally don't know me, at all lol)
1418956;1456840303;mircea_popescu;...
1418957;1456840314;SuchWow;didn't want to retype a paraphrase, sry
1418958;1456840326;SuchWow;because of client, didn't realize wasn't sending
1418959;1456840332;mircea_popescu;ic!
1418960;1456840350;mircea_popescu;usually the meaning of emeritus, yes.
1418961;1456840377;mircea_popescu;and yeah, i agree, dogecoin, like litecoin, all went the way of the bell bottoms.
1418962;1456840382;SuchWow;the emeritus tag is much less than you guys have been making of it lol
1418963;1456840384;mircea_popescu;it's a cult hit now!
1418964;1456840391;SuchWow;you all have literally paid 10x more attn to it than myself lol
1418965;1456840394;mircea_popescu;SuchWow 'emeritus" just means retired, neh ?
1418966;1456840412;SuchWow;a dogecoin op became freenode dev, freenode decided to give aff cloaks for dogecoin project
1418967;1456840422;SuchWow;for my time and service in being founding op of that chan
1418968;1456840423;mircea_popescu;bwahahaha
1418969;1456840426;SuchWow;they asked if i wanted it
1418970;1456840429;SuchWow;i said 'ok sure, neat'
1418971;1456840432;SuchWow;lol
1418972;1456840445;mircea_popescu;o brother. i've been trying to give servers and stuff to the freenode shitheads for YEARS
1418973;1456840452;mircea_popescu;meanwhiole they're busy doging the dev.
1418974;1456840474;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83000 @ 0.00059433 = 49.3294 BTC [+] {2} 
1418975;1456840483;SuchWow;i certainly don't claim that there was any logic to the decision, but if you've seen #freenode lately, and ANNs, a lot has changed around here recently
1418976;1456840533;mircea_popescu;yeah, specifically http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-02-2016#1410187
1418977;1456840533;assbot;Logged on 19-02-2016 15:24:53; mircea_popescu: * #freenode :Cannot send to channel
1418978;1456840545;mircea_popescu;so much has changed it'll be an accomplishment if they last the year.
1418979;1456840558;SuchWow;well, in their defense
1418980;1456840568;SuchWow;they said that a lot of this is really just resurrection of 'the old ways'
1418981;1456840577;SuchWow;and not actually new changes in that regard
1418982;1456840584;mircea_popescu;aha.
1418983;1456840593;SuchWow;yeah i found that interesting as well
1418984;1456840596;mircea_popescu;so what are you doing these days ? wanna test my mmorpg ?
1418985;1456840599;SuchWow;having only been here a few years
1418986;1456840614;SuchWow;working IT repairs/custom installs/refreshes/etc
1418987;1456840618;SuchWow;currently vacationing in vegas lol
1418988;1456840629;SuchWow;but the poker scene here has died so much over the last 5 years
1418989;1456840650;SuchWow;that it's day 3-4 and i'm litearlly in my hotel room chatting on irc because this place just ain't what it used to be lol
1418990;1456840655;mircea_popescu;yeah, vegas is yet another sanded harbor in the history of civilisation.
1418991;1456840675;SuchWow;it's now a hotel-centric business
1418992;1456840678;mircea_popescu;kinda sad, for all who knew its past glory.
1418993;1456840681;SuchWow;and casinos are the loss leader
1418994;1456840684;SuchWow;it's so fuckin weird
1418995;1456840689;SuchWow;cuz i used to come here all the time
1418996;1456840704;SuchWow;<+mircea_popescu> kinda sad, for all who knew its past glory.
1418997;1456840706;SuchWow;^^
1418998;1456840720;mircea_popescu;course that kinda ended in the 80s, just been soft-ish landing ever since.
1418999;1456840749;SuchWow;i started in early 00s
1419000;1456840756;SuchWow;with the new Strip revamp
1419001;1456840763;mircea_popescu;aha
1419002;1456840772;mircea_popescu;!up moli
1419003;1456840779;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00059385 = 17.3404 BTC [-]
1419004;1456840782;SuchWow;won a $3300 jackpot in 05, and had free room offers from Harrahs (caesars) for 2 years as a result
1419005;1456840797;SuchWow;was living in Cali $50 plane tick, starte going just for fun
1419006;1456840802;SuchWow;and never gave it back haha
1419007;1456840803;mircea_popescu;back when the hotels were the loss leaders.
1419008;1456840810;SuchWow;finally they cut me off and said fuck you back lol
1419009;1456840813;SuchWow;yes exactly lol
1419010;1456840814;mircea_popescu;lol
1419011;1456840820;SuchWow;and back when they respected poker as well
1419012;1456840835;SuchWow;that's the only thing i ever really did on my trips
1419013;1456840841;SuchWow;poker + free drinks
1419014;1456840841;mircea_popescu;well because it was the loss leader also. people went to lose money to champs just on the basis of hte brand
1419015;1456840857;SuchWow;poker was always the loss leader, even during the boom
1419016;1456840863;mircea_popescu;"oh i played with chow" "o yea ? how'd you do ?" "folded three hands!"
1419017;1456840867;SuchWow;but now there is literally no tourist market for poker anymore
1419018;1456840874;SuchWow;and half the rooms that have been jere decades
1419019;1456840882;SuchWow;have closed or 50% in size/moved/etc
1419020;1456840890;SuchWow;it's really sad for me to see that, but at the same time
1419021;1456840900;SuchWow;vegas is still doing alright
1419022;1456840905;SuchWow;it's just catering to a different ceowd
1419023;1456840913;SuchWow;they also cleaned up all the hookers and homeless
1419024;1456840914;mircea_popescu;yeah lol. government workers.
1419025;1456840918;SuchWow;like literally, poof, gone
1419026;1456840923;SuchWow;(for the most part)
1419027;1456840960;SuchWow;it's becoming a destination resort town, with gambling offered as just one of several differnt options, no more special weighting
1419028;1456840970;mircea_popescu;no more tables, no more cocktail waitress cocksuckers off duty waiting for teh winners, no more vegas!
1419029;1456840982;SuchWow;no, they're all there
1419030;1456840992;SuchWow;that's the surreal part
1419031;1456841000;SuchWow;it's all still there, people are doing it
1419032;1456841005;SuchWow;but it's different people
1419033;1456841011;SuchWow;and it's just no logner the focus
1419034;1456841018;mircea_popescu;aha
1419035;1456841020;SuchWow;the hotels would almost rather you not gamble as much as before
1419036;1456841028;SuchWow;and instead spend $20/day on hotel wifi
1419037;1456841040;SuchWow;and the recently increased across the board prices
1419038;1456841046;SuchWow;on literally everything in the city
1419039;1456841050;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418854 << the concept that you fit in there still boggles me.
1419040;1456841050;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 09:02:12; ben_vulpes: there's only so much damage the little fuckling can do in 485 ft2
1419041;1456841060;SuchWow;i am at a $30/night room at resort on Fremont
1419042;1456841065;SuchWow;and wifi is 20/day
1419043;1456841073;SuchWow;i'm in the wrong business lol
1419044;1456841080;mircea_popescu;$30 a night ?! such can't be had in all of buenos aires.
1419045;1456841097;mircea_popescu;i mean there's some REALLY seedy places here, "hotel familiar" etc, literal hookers and bums,
1419046;1456841099;SuchWow;$30/night has always been attainable on downtown vegas strip
1419047;1456841101;SuchWow;that's not new
1419048;1456841111;mircea_popescu;yeah. just saying.
1419049;1456841113;SuchWow;it's all the *other* charges that are very targetted and new
1419050;1456841120;SuchWow;last time is was $12.99
1419051;1456841126;SuchWow;5-6 years ago when i was last here
1419052;1456841135;mircea_popescu;the idea of paying for wifi is so weird.
1419053;1456841138;SuchWow;now they're just like 'fuck it, rape them on services and amenities and drinks'
1419054;1456841145;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68000 @ 0.00059471 = 40.4403 BTC [+] {2} 
1419055;1456841152;SuchWow;i went down to the bar and got 2 heiniekens was liek $15
1419056;1456841159;SuchWow;or stick $20 into video poker and is free lol
1419057;1456841169;SuchWow;but nobodyu is doing that anymore
1419058;1456841179;SuchWow;the crowd they are now attracting just gladly pays
1419059;1456841186;mircea_popescu;aha.
1419060;1456841192;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418861 << you know that's normal.
1419061;1456841192;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 09:04:23; cazalla: i get more cuddles and kisses, but he only turns the tears on if mum leaves, not when dad goes out, doesn't seem to care as much
1419062;1456841202;SuchWow;it is kinda brilliant, and the overall atmosphere is much better in many ways
1419063;1456841207;SuchWow;just not my style and not what i came for lol
1419064;1456841215;SuchWow;but it is surely more profitable for everyone involved, so i get it
1419065;1456841222;mircea_popescu;government workers.
1419066;1456841235;SuchWow;mircea_popescu: what do you think about the pres candidates
1419067;1456841241;SuchWow;synopsis lol
1419068;1456841255;SuchWow;you think a lot, more than me even
1419069;1456841257;mircea_popescu;https://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/ << more or less htis.
1419070;1456841258;assbot;BitBet - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination :: 137.71 B (62%) on Yes, 83.19 B (38%) on No | closing in 1 month 1 week| weight: 20`618 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAXLHg )
1419071;1456841263;SuchWow;rolf
1419072;1456841266;SuchWow;was just looking at that
1419073;1456841276;SuchWow;someone linked it elsewhere earlier
1419074;1456841291;mircea_popescu;i didn't even bet, myself. but i think it's pretty much on the money.
1419075;1456841291;SuchWow;but what is the end game
1419076;1456841299;SuchWow;it's either trump v sanders, or v hillary
1419077;1456841308;SuchWow;and i think sanders won't be 'permitted' 'able' to win
1419078;1456841310;mircea_popescu;prolly hillary.
1419079;1456841323;SuchWow;i think the whole damn circus is just a scripted mess to get hillary in
1419080;1456841332;mircea_popescu;see there's this thing where they "prepare" future candidates. sanders may well get 2020.
1419081;1456841340;SuchWow;which is fine, as she is the only candidate giving us the highest probability of continued stability
1419082;1456841341;mircea_popescu;aha, quite exactly.
1419083;1456841345;SuchWow;'business as usual, etc'
1419084;1456841359;SuchWow;whilst simulatenously appeasing outliers
1419085;1456841369;SuchWow;buy giving sanders more support than perot, nader, and paul cpombined
1419086;1456841380;SuchWow;thus enforcing the illusion that we are all really choosing the outcome
1419087;1456841384;SuchWow;it's neat
1419088;1456841410;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418866 << so nsa/mit are trying to push an alt. good for them. they'll fail.
1419089;1456841410;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 09:06:04; SuchWow: Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think about ethereum, meaning this chan in general
1419090;1456841462;SuchWow;ahahaha
1419091;1456841469;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418880 << and yet it's obvious. what's the difference between the two ? :D
1419092;1456841469;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 09:08:51; ben_vulpes: i wonder how the conversation drifted from parenting to shillcoins
1419093;1456841477;SuchWow;same hypothetical said about btc many times also tho
1419094;1456841485;SuchWow;because he upped me lol
1419095;1456841488;SuchWow;duh
1419096;1456841510;SuchWow;as i said, i enjoy our bi-yearly talks lol
1419097;1456841516;SuchWow;figured i'd bring my a-game for once ;)
1419098;1456841528;mircea_popescu;tis much less of a hypotetical, tis a factual. look into the structure backing it if you're bored.
1419099;1456841547;SuchWow;if nothing else, proving that trust/relationship can be established even without use of ratings bot lol
1419100;1456841572;SuchWow;mircea_popescu: you're talking about eth, but saying not btc?
1419101;1456841575;mircea_popescu;i can't say i'm not flattered nsa's trying their idea of "the mp approach", but in the famed words of knight, "get the fuck off the horse!"
1419102;1456841576;SuchWow;or a combo of the two
1419103;1456841601;mircea_popescu;entertainment and trust are orthogonal matters SuchWow
1419104;1456841613;SuchWow;how did we get back to politics lol
1419105;1456841624;mircea_popescu;but yes, an inkling of trust necessarily must stem out of outside the wot.
1419106;1456841650;SuchWow;did the gov't have anything to do with creation of btc?
1419107;1456841660;SuchWow;(just hypothetical by means of same token)
1419108;1456841665;SuchWow;i knwo is unfairly braod Q lol
1419109;1456841682;SuchWow;sry, wrist hurts
1419110;1456841697;mircea_popescu;well, if it did or if it didn't, it's not like the case of ethereum in any sense.
1419111;1456841704;SuchWow;interesting
1419112;1456841705;mircea_popescu;what's that halfbreed's name, ho ?
1419113;1456841711;mircea_popescu;gimme a sec ima dig out the thread.
1419114;1456841714;SuchWow;but
1419115;1456841717;SuchWow;if we don
1419116;1456841720;SuchWow;tdon't really know
1419117;1456841722;mircea_popescu;it was ho, shoe, something. elen chow.
1419118;1456841726;SuchWow;then how can we say it is or isn't
1419119;1456841763;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-02-2016#1414722 like that. shu, apparently.
1419120;1456841763;assbot;Logged on 24-02-2016 22:14:34; mircea_popescu: i'll have shu's head, and a few others instead.
1419121;1456841785;SuchWow;(i am incredibly not well versed in eth tho admittedly, just the snips i hear here and there weekly on various chats/forums)
1419122;1456841805;mircea_popescu;no wait, that's maybe not it. wtf was it,.
1419123;1456841810;SuchWow;i certainly started watching that chart for fun tho, as i always do for btc/ltc/doge, a few months back
1419124;1456841827;SuchWow;has been a wild ride, and i called a lot of the movement correctly
1419125;1456841864;SuchWow;(but of course had zero invested due to no free time)
1419126;1456841871;mircea_popescu;well, basically the story of eth is, "what if we made a b-a, except not on irc but in a spare closet at a usg-sponsored university, and we tried to get idiot kids on reddit excited and inept javascript developers contributing code and MAKE A BETTER BITCOIN in the sense that it'll suck where bitcoin  hurts us."
1419127;1456841896;SuchWow;now that's the most interesting tl;dr i've read yet
1419128;1456841896;mircea_popescu;then i went into them financially and they actually burned a few millions propping it up, and that pretty much brings us to the present day.
1419129;1456841907;SuchWow;right that's what gets me
1419130;1456841912;SuchWow;i remember them fundraising etc
1419131;1456841916;SuchWow;no prospects for growth
1419132;1456841933;SuchWow;and then suddenly it's a currency and it starts acting like dogecoin, value/price-wise
1419133;1456841938;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00059471 = 6.6608 BTC [+]
1419134;1456841939;mircea_popescu;which is fine and good - by now it's obvious it's cheaper to kill it on technical grounds rather than financial seeing how nsa can print money but can't really hire anyone but indians and idiots for the life of it.
1419135;1456841944;mircea_popescu;and so, here we are #2.
1419136;1456841948;SuchWow;except that it seems to be maintaining the illusion longer
1419137;1456841968;SuchWow;do people even consider eth to be a beta
1419138;1456841970;SuchWow;or still alpha
1419139;1456841976;mircea_popescu;SuchWow hey, govt has a lot of experience running ponzis. heck, social security is still somehow magically protected by illusion.
1419140;1456841988;SuchWow;i've seen the page listing all the amazing proof of concept contracts/programs
1419141;1456841988;assbot;AMAZING COMPANY!
1419142;1456841992;SuchWow;and it is pretty neat
1419143;1456842014;SuchWow;mircea_popescu: such is currency
1419144;1456842018;SuchWow;and currency ofc is debt
1419145;1456842041;SuchWow;it's all a sham, but it's amazing how long they've been able to prop it up and convince the vast majority of everyone to believe in it
1419146;1456842041;assbot;AMAZING COMPANY!
1419147;1456842054;SuchWow;what is the peewee word of the day lol
1419148;1456842304;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47824 @ 0.00059379 = 28.3974 BTC [-] {2} 
1419149;1456842310;mircea_popescu;!up SuchWow
1419150;1456842315;mircea_popescu;omg get in the wot already.
1419151;1456842326;SuchWow;ok fine what do i have to do
1419152;1456842335;SuchWow;make it simple
1419153;1456842341;SuchWow;been in vegas for days and not slept much lol
1419154;1456842346;mircea_popescu;you got a gpg key ?
1419155;1456842354;SuchWow;anyhow, all i wanted to say was: [09:22:08] <SuchWow> anyhow i'm gonna drift off for now [09:22:23] <SuchWow> thanks for the good convo, be well sir (and all)
1419156;1456842357;SuchWow;no i don't
1419157;1456842364;SuchWow;just +i me
1419158;1456842365;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24730 @ 0.00058609 = 14.494 BTC [-]
1419159;1456842365;mircea_popescu;haha then a lot you gotta do. later!
1419160;1456842367;SuchWow;way easier
1419161;1456842375;SuchWow;or +v
1419162;1456842380;SuchWow;or whatever
1419163;1456842391;SuchWow;it's not like i ever talk lol
1419164;1456842453;jurov;it's !up ... and you'll need pgp key even for eulora
1419165;1456842470;mircea_popescu;hard to explain the benefit of sight to the blind
1419166;1456842474;SuchWow;Nothing I do in this chan requires "trust" as far as I can see
1419167;1456842483;SuchWow;it's just irc, and it's a chan i rarely if ever speak in
1419168;1456842494;SuchWow;yet i do once in awhile read the chat here just for fun
1419169;1456842507;SuchWow;anyhow, it's your chan, i'll shutup lol
1419170;1456842508;mircea_popescu;let's just say that being able to see opens new dimensions to your life you never could see before.
1419171;1456842511;SuchWow;hagn/d everyone :)
1419172;1456842520;SuchWow;if i ever return to trading
1419173;1456842525;trinque;guy's so tired he's speaking klingon
1419174;1456842528;SuchWow;i will consider spending more time here, etc
1419175;1456842533;SuchWow;lol
1419176;1456842609;jurov;and actually, this chan isn't much about trading anymore
1419177;1456843009;SuchWow;then maybe there is no need for an enforceable trust system before one can speak ;)
1419178;1456843020;SuchWow;i jest i jest, really going now lol
1419179;1456843031;SuchWow;keep on being intelligent
1419180;1456843033;SuchWow;the world needs it
1419181;1456843149;jurov;SuchWow: what about the code your ass runs on? no trust system needed?
1419182;1456843405;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418901 <<< i was certainly never in a bed with a woman and her 80 lb "lovedog" before, whatever that may mean.
1419183;1456843405;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 09:15:43; ben_vulpes: probably more crowded than anything mircea_popescu engages in willingly, and i don't even like it.
1419184;1456843420;mircea_popescu;but then again, i am youthful and inexperienced. also was not in bed with woman and her infant child.
1419185;1456843471;thestringpuller;so classic got 33 blocks out of last 1000. it's interesting seeing the derps derpin'
1419186;1456843476;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418907 << word.
1419187;1456843476;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 09:38:24; punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ccbgb0CXIAEbwoL.jpg:large
1419188;1456843499;mircea_popescu;trump didn't actually beat inflation, let alone the s&p.
1419189;1456843531;mircea_popescu;the thing anon establishment ho fails to mention, however, is that S&P 500 is not in any sense a thing.
1419190;1456843537;mircea_popescu;THEY KEEP CHANING THE CONTENTS!
1419191;1456843560;mircea_popescu;the difference between "S&P 500" and "here's a retrospective list of 500 companies I picked" is moreover slim.
1419192;1456844039;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller lemme guess, "consensus" ?
1419193;1456844378;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.000594 = 17.226 BTC [+]
1419194;1456844580;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418936 << why are you using flycheck??!
1419195;1456844580;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 13:42:04; assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 06:02:07; ben_vulpes: flycheck just deleted the contents of an entire buffer
1419196;1456844588;asciilifeform;!s flycheck
1419197;1456844589;assbot;28 results for 'flycheck' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=flycheck
1419198;1456844618;asciilifeform;the systemd of emacs.
1419199;1456844638;mircea_popescu;an' how's the morn find you asciilifeform ?
1419200;1456844677;asciilifeform;meeeeting...
1419201;1456844703;mircea_popescu;my new whip smells of cow. ahh, sweet nature.
1419202;1456844744;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.000594 = 12.3255 BTC [+]
1419203;1456845023;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: I don't even know what people are revolting about anymore. It's like watching #occupy wall street with BTC
1419204;1456845048;mircea_popescu;lol. brace yourself, that's also coming.
1419205;1456845065;phf;ben_vulpes: i don't ever touch dependencies, so 40s for a full rebuilt
1419206;1456845781;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9836 @ 0.000594 = 5.8426 BTC [+]
1419207;1456846330;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38450 @ 0.00058888 = 22.6424 BTC [-] {3} 
1419208;1456846879;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35590 @ 0.00058699 = 20.891 BTC [-] {2} 
1419209;1456847001;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20041 @ 0.00059004 = 11.825 BTC [+] {2} 
1419210;1456847642;jurov;!t m f.mpif
1419211;1456847642;assbot;Um, shouldn't you be with your own tribe or somethin'?
1419212;1456847771;jurov;!t m x.eur
1419213;1456847771;assbot;[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00256578 / 0.00256578 / 0.00256578 (42 shares, 0.11 BTC), 7D: 0.00254515 / 0.00262764 / 0.00266872 (2153 shares, 5.66 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00274909 / 0.00332476 (9529 shares, 26.20 BTC)
1419214;1456847776;jurov;!t m s.qntr
1419215;1456847777;assbot;[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D:  /  /  ( shares,  BTC), 30D: 0.00023293 / 0.00039403 / 0.00049913 (208514 shares, 82.16 BTC)
1419216;1456848343;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00059375 = 8.7578 BTC [+]
1419217;1456848892;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6783 @ 0.00059471 = 4.0339 BTC [+]
1419218;1456848953;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8917 @ 0.00059553 = 5.3103 BTC [+] {2} 
1419219;1456849161;jurov;deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201602.txt.asc
1419220;1456849161;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1LtZV2j )
1419221;1456849165;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1419222;1456849187;jurov;deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160301/attachment.txt?sha1=675d9675e9151a4adf860e168aada54d33925369
1419223;1456849188;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lu006l )
1419224;1456849189;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1419225;1456849258;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00059375 = 15.5563 BTC [-]
1419226;1456849624;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14347 @ 0.00058726 = 8.4254 BTC [-] {2} 
1419227;1456849830;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418940 << this must include buildroot/gcc, the deps, etc.
1419228;1456849830;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 13:44:43; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418803 << about 18-20 minutes.
1419229;1456849839;asciilifeform;either that or mircea_popescu is using a 486...
1419230;1456849884;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418972 << isn't there a 'don't feed the animals' sign hanging somewhere above them ?
1419231;1456849884;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 13:54:05; mircea_popescu: o brother. i've been trying to give servers and stuff to the freenode shitheads for YEARS
1419232;1456849945;jurov;how do i search in deedbot stuff?
1419233;1456849948;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418977 << what specifically ~was~ this ?
1419234;1456849948;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 13:55:33; assbot: Logged on 19-02-2016 15:24:53; mircea_popescu: * #freenode :Cannot send to channel
1419235;1456850175;jurov;trinque what do you use to search deedbot's deeds? google sucksfor this, duckduckgo only a bit less
1419236;1456850217;jurov;also, are you ok with me mirroring them often?
1419237;1456850337;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah it was the whole thing.
1419238;1456850640;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno, joined #freenode typed out the above turns out i had no voice. shrugged an' left.
1419239;1456850905;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34986 @ 0.00059554 = 20.8356 BTC [+]
1419240;1456850966;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16164 @ 0.00059585 = 9.6313 BTC [+]
1419241;1456851074;jurov;omg there are 110M deeds?
1419242;1456851130;mircea_popescu;no way ?!
1419243;1456851143;trinque;jurov: please do not write a naive scraper that runs often :p
1419244;1456851145;jurov;http://deedbot.org/bundle-387343.txt
1419245;1456851156;trinque;I have the logs in there for example
1419246;1456851170;jurov;logs aren't so bulky I hope
1419247;1456851179;jurov;did you set a limit at all?
1419248;1456851219;jurov;huh but these are logs indeed
1419249;1456851227;trinque;yeah, they're pretty big
1419250;1456851269;jurov;trinque: imma use wget, should be OK if your webserver sends right date headers
1419251;1456851287;trinque;just nginx on a static folder, should
1419252;1456851554;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419204 << wai wut ?!
1419253;1456851554;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 15:10:48; mircea_popescu: lol. brace yourself, that's also coming.
1419254;1456851739;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419182 << what, exactly, is a 'lovedog' ? new word for skinny asian chick kept as pet ??
1419255;1456851739;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 14:43:25; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418901 <<< i was certainly never in a bed with a woman and her 80 lb "lovedog" before, whatever that may mean.
1419256;1456851741;trinque;jurov: mind making sure it's returning not modified properly before cron job?
1419257;1456851748;trinque;if not I'll fix it
1419258;1456851765;mircea_popescu;noidea.
1419259;1456851788;jurov;trinque , yes "HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable    The file is already fully retrieved; nothing to do."
1419260;1456851813;trinque;neato
1419261;1456851815;trinque;scrape away
1419262;1456851818;jurov;may not work if you ever shrink files, but doubt that ever happens
1419263;1456851829;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419128 << i won't be surprised if a few trillions end up sunk into propping it up
1419264;1456851829;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 14:18:16; mircea_popescu: then i went into them financially and they actually burned a few millions propping it up, and that pretty much brings us to the present day.
1419265;1456851831;trinque;Anduck: learn from the above !!!1111!! ^
1419266;1456851835;trinque;lol
1419267;1456851851;asciilifeform;(what, it costs usg to print more 0s after decimal point ?)
1419268;1456851876;trinque;but it does.
1419269;1456851927;trinque;whether they intentionally sink the USD to try to push people onto a USGCoin, who knows.
1419270;1456851950;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419040 << woah this is only slightly larger than my old 'nazi submarine'
1419271;1456851950;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 14:04:10; assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 09:02:12; ben_vulpes: there's only so much damage the little fuckling can do in 485 ft2
1419272;1456851950;trinque;kurrency kontrolz for the 21st century!
1419273;1456851998;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419044 << where i live, you can just about part a motorcycle for 30/day.
1419274;1456851998;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 14:04:40; mircea_popescu: $30 a night ?! such can't be had in all of buenos aires.
1419275;1456852003;asciilifeform;*park
1419276;1456852108;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418801 << 9 times out of 10, it is simply that a new block appears, and has tx-dddos-crapola
1419277;1456852108;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 08:52:51; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395250 << asciilifeform what was the actual trigger for the blackhole? requesting a specific transaction?
1419278;1456852131;asciilifeform;there are also lesser blackholes, from the tx-ddos-crapola itself being received and verified
1419279;1456852139;asciilifeform;(prior to it entering a block)
1419280;1456852169;asciilifeform;shiva was originally part of an attempt to write a debugger to shine some light at this crud
1419281;1456852175;punkman;https://drownattack.com/
1419282;1456852177;assbot;DROWN Attack ... ( http://bit.ly/1VOPeYF )
1419283;1456852230;asciilifeform;'...a new form of cross-protocol Bleichenbacher padding oracle attack. It allows an attacker to decrypt intercepted TLS connections by making specially crafted connections to an SSLv2 server that uses the same private key.' << l0l
1419284;1456852244;asciilifeform;i thought this was old ?
1419285;1456852248;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2986 @ 0.00059585 = 1.7792 BTC [+]
1419286;1456852306;punkman;motherfucking branded vulns
1419287;1456852323;asciilifeform;the original ssl-'phuctor'-no-we-won't-publish-the-data folks, incidentally.
1419288;1456852326;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu ^
1419289;1456852344;asciilifeform;'it doesn't matter and we had it first!11111'
1419290;1456852362;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-05-2015#1136562
1419291;1456852362;assbot;Logged on 18-05-2015 19:48:18; ascii_field: 'It doesn't work when Nadia Heninger goes to sell Phuctor before Stanford - Nadia Heninger doesn't own Phuctor, and the actual owners are very much present and very much capable to bitchslap her into oblivion.' << actually, 'crime pays.' chick gets a phd and cushy sinecure, etc.
1419292;1456852379;mircea_popescu;punkman> motherfucking branded vulns << srsly.
1419293;1456852432;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the notion that nadia heninger "got" a phd and "got" a cushy sinecure, in the sense of got that you employ when you say b-a got x done is ludicrous!
1419294;1456852443;asciilifeform;fine.
1419295;1456852444;asciilifeform;was given.
1419296;1456852447;mircea_popescu;if i feed the fish in my tank, it does not follow that the tankfish "got" food.
1419297;1456852458;mircea_popescu;and once i fucking croak, they'll get a cat's paw magazine.
1419298;1456852463;asciilifeform;this much is obvious though.
1419299;1456852474;mircea_popescu;"obvious" is NOT a byword for "stuff i ignore"
1419300;1456852491;mircea_popescu;obvious is what stuff is that sits at the root of the tree of things and denies certain branches of thought
1419301;1456852496;asciilifeform;hey, i'm also a fish, but in smaller tank with cruddier food and more cat.
1419302;1456852497;mircea_popescu;permanently, without exception, in all cases.
1419303;1456852503;mircea_popescu;what can i tell you.
1419304;1456852521;asciilifeform;and in fact i'm in a fish store, in the bait tank.
1419305;1456852559;mircea_popescu;whether you are or aren't : the notion that what nadia heninger did is in any way related to what nadia heninger "got" is the core and the root of cargo cultism.
1419306;1456852578;asciilifeform;possibly she sucked the right pud ?
1419307;1456852586;asciilifeform;or at least 'chose parents carefully'
1419308;1456852594;mircea_popescu;there is no technology of prayer!
1419309;1456852614;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is clearly not an aztec.
1419310;1456852620;asciilifeform;or tibetan.
1419311;1456852629;mircea_popescu;i am clearly not a any one thing, but instead "rootless cosmopolitan"
1419312;1456852643;asciilifeform;(do they have modern turbine yet in tibet, to turn prayer mill?)
1419313;1456852645;mircea_popescu;because yes, socialist notion of belonging is always built on some version of "plox to believe there is technology of prayer"
1419314;1456852688;asciilifeform;anyway i have profoundly nfi re: heninger.
1419315;1456852727;asciilifeform;all i know is that she's 'house slave' and i'm 'field nigger.'
1419316;1456852739;punkman;https://ssrg.nicta.com.au/projects/TS/cachebleed/ speaking of heningers
1419317;1456852742;assbot;CacheBleed: A Timing Attack on OpenSSL Constant Time RSA ... ( http://bit.ly/1VOQ9sc )
1419318;1456852759;mircea_popescu;ahahaha
1419319;1456852874;jurov;trinque actually, upon reading wget man, it will clobber html files because it always reads only the added range regardless of date headers :(
1419320;1456852894;jurov;so (S)FTP or rsync would be better
1419321;1456852899;trinque;jurov: only html is the index
1419322;1456852911;jurov;and FAQ
1419323;1456852931;jurov;and maybe some other stuff you forgot :_
1419324;1456852937;jurov;:)
1419325;1456852950;trinque;I don't mind getting ya rsync, will have to be this evening
1419326;1456852960;jurov;no, someday
1419327;1456852982;trinque;heh someday it is then
1419328;1456853259;asciilifeform;notice how every time the 'branded' bug burn ends with 'and now you must install openssl x.y.n+1 ' ???
1419329;1456853280;punkman;it's all rather organized
1419330;1456853374;punkman;http://galleries.payserve.com/1/34382/40089/images/2.jpg
1419331;1456853375;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TOQugG )
1419332;1456853394;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1419333;1456853465;*;asciilifeform looks forward to pounding in the 'g' knife into the ssl idiocy
1419334;1456853651;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70067 @ 0.00059681 = 41.8167 BTC [+] {3} 
1419335;1456853670;mircea_popescu;but what i personally take home from the whole "o noes, branded bugs nao" thing is that hearbleed REALLY hurt.
1419336;1456853679;mircea_popescu;which is about as nice as all the derpage post-snowden.
1419337;1456853713;deedbot-;[serialized delusions] F.MPIF 2015 trading statements - http://explo.yt/post/2016/03/01/F.MPIF-2015-trading-statements
1419338;1456853809;mircea_popescu;and in other news,  http://40.media.tumblr.com/2101614620ddddd2978e7e6ce64dc1d4/tumblr_mmuc4eEsgJ1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1419339;1456853809;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1VORCyy )
1419340;1456854017;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00059625 = 14.6081 BTC [-]
1419341;1456854505;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116139 @ 0.00059732 = 69.3721 BTC [+] {4} 
1419342;1456854509;punkman;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CccQCBcWAAAu9qo.jpg:large
1419343;1456854509;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TOUfCQ )
1419344;1456854618;mircea_popescu;lmao
1419345;1456854649;mircea_popescu;pretty good nightmare fuel.
1419346;1456854764;punkman;for the kids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNHwgnpzY9w
1419347;1456854766;assbot;Mommy, why is there a server in the house? - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1TOV1ja )
1419348;1456854926;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.95000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b9
1419349;1456854932;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19431 @ 0.00059625 = 11.5857 BTC [-]
1419350;1456855176;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39583 @ 0.00059625 = 23.6014 BTC [-]
1419351;1456855448;punkman;http://thereformedbroker.com/2016/02/25/abundance/
1419352;1456855987;mircea_popescu;lol what's with this trend of rewriting trilema poorly among the yuppy class ?
1419353;1456856343;mircea_popescu;aaaand we're losing txn again.
1419354;1456856430;ben_vulpes;the hundred dollar store is pretty funny
1419355;1456856447;mircea_popescu;word.
1419356;1456856533;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you see txn bf77bf5ec7c02f4027caab024d5581d82bdea97ab8d7d97aac856169c038dd31 on 173.73.235.152 ?
1419357;1456856640;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00059572 = 14.9526 BTC [-] {2} 
1419358;1456856753;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nevermind, false alarm. meanwhile i see it propagated.
1419359;1456856766;jurov;http://imgur.com/CQxHbly win.
1419360;1456856767;assbot;Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/21Acil5 )
1419361;1456856951;punkman;jurov: translation?
1419362;1456857110;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tx tends to be slow nowadays due to crapolade flood
1419363;1456857145;mircea_popescu;in truth the failure modes for discrete production processes on the bitcoin network are currently still innumerable.
1419364;1456857154;mircea_popescu;my list is in the thousands and i am still regularly blindsided.
1419365;1456857170;mircea_popescu;i know it sounds ridiculous, but however it may sound, it is the fucking truth.
1419366;1456857191;ben_vulpes;i'd like to see that list!
1419367;1456857201;mircea_popescu;aha.
1419368;1456857217;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419361 < left: 'for yourself' right: 'for guests'
1419369;1456857217;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 18:29:11; punkman: jurov: translation?
1419370;1456857251;asciilifeform;discrete production processes ??
1419371;1456857261;asciilifeform;elaborate ?
1419372;1456857265;mircea_popescu;yes. "do X thing".
1419373;1456857270;mircea_popescu;"make a widget"
1419374;1456857313;asciilifeform;the failure rate is, elementarily, a queue thing
1419375;1456857327;asciilifeform;(whatever you ask for sits in a queue behind 10,001 pieces of shit)
1419376;1456857367;mircea_popescu;i was thinking tower of shit problem, but yes.
1419377;1456857415;asciilifeform;which tower of shit ?
1419378;1456857615;mircea_popescu;bitcoin, the tower of shit.
1419379;1456857616;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35587 @ 0.00059791 = 21.2778 BTC [+]
1419380;1456857656;mircea_popescu;a collection of rotten hardware running dubios kernels with ball of shit visual studio-level bitcoin implementation, expected to somehow do things.
1419381;1456857658;mircea_popescu;ridiculous.
1419382;1456857675;ben_vulpes;fractally bad code
1419383;1456857802;asciilifeform;out of curiosity, what failures has mircea_popescu observed that can be reliably attributed to shit hardware ?
1419384;1456857854;mircea_popescu;nothing can be reliably attributed to anything
1419385;1456857857;mircea_popescu;part of the fucking problem, this
1419386;1456857920;mircea_popescu;but on the other hand - i can't fucking hire people for the love of everfuck. there is no such thing as a lowly bank clerk in bitcoin. everyone must be at above-phd level of tech awareness - yea, i know that doesn't cut it to be in b-a, fine, fuck you all, there are STILL 100k phds spewed out the world over who think themselves as they add to the pool of millions floating around that they are pdh-level! -
1419387;1456857950;mircea_popescu;and EVEN THEN everyone must have access to the fucking top of the hierarchy because it is a GIVEN that everyone will encounter fundamental problems on a monthly basis.
1419388;1456857961;asciilifeform;wai wut
1419389;1456857969;mircea_popescu;if banks ran like this the average teller would look like a fucking safari hunter,
1419390;1456857977;mircea_popescu;except for the steel breastplate and geiger counter.
1419391;1456857981;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is hiring a what ?
1419392;1456858000;mircea_popescu;a nothing! i can't as much as have someone to clean the fucking floors.
1419393;1456858014;asciilifeform;i thought mircea_popescu taught us that odin will smite those who hire hirelings
1419394;1456858043;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162250 @ 0.00059813 = 97.0466 BTC [+] {4} 
1419395;1456858047;trinque;wtf?!?!
1419396;1456858074;trinque;tcp        0      0 172.86.178.46:44113     185.30.166.37:7000      ESTABLISHED
1419397;1456858111;mircea_popescu;do you understand how normal work works among humans ? bob has a widget factory, which needs a widgeteer, which is a job composed of 5 movements and 3 reaches, so he goes to the corner where kids loiter and goes "you there! do like this with your elbow! good. now read this list and apply it. every day."
1419398;1456858121;jurov;trinque i was mistaken, wget does timestamping, so all should be swell... but srs 50kB/s? you serve deedbot over ADSL?
1419399;1456858136;mircea_popescu;but no, in bitcoin it's "and if the clown car on the left comes unglued call this number and if the bla bla 5000 entries long"
1419400;1456858143;mircea_popescu;and it's still not ~complete~.
1419401;1456858144;asciilifeform;trinque: the fella on the left hand side is you, i recall. right hand - i think might be mircea_popescu ?
1419402;1456858145;trinque;jurov: you asked if there were limits !!!111!!
1419403;1456858160;trinque;asciilifeform: should be a fleanode server
1419404;1456858164;trinque;deedbot- just parted
1419405;1456858187;asciilifeform;trinque: tcpdump plox.
1419406;1456858210;mircea_popescu;i happen to know what that is. ircd will just dump the highest latency users if it gets full.
1419407;1456858213;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the situation you described is called 'skilled labour' and it is how i eat.
1419408;1456858219;asciilifeform;welcome to planet 3.
1419409;1456858221;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not in the slightest.
1419410;1456858226;trinque;mircea_popescu: ah
1419411;1456858233;mircea_popescu;skilled labour is what happens with bob and his factory.
1419412;1456858242;mircea_popescu;this nonsense is just nonsense.
1419413;1456858259;asciilifeform;taming bursting pipes which gush forth nonsense is - skilled labour.
1419414;1456858269;asciilifeform;repetitive, trainable elbow movements is the other hind.
1419415;1456858270;asciilifeform;*kind
1419416;1456858272;asciilifeform;of labour
1419417;1456858322;mircea_popescu;ie, skilled.
1419418;1456858352;asciilifeform;semi-skilled, if you insist.
1419419;1456858355;mircea_popescu;skilled labour is hwat a carpenter does. he has 7 tools and 3 types of wood, and an absolute guarantee that his fucking board isn't going to spontaneously turn to marmalade.
1419420;1456858362;jurov;trinque i'm used to limiting at ingress not egress. but i prolly disgress.
1419421;1456858367;mircea_popescu;which is why it is WORK.
1419422;1456858388;mircea_popescu;whereas what a doctor, or a lawyer do, independent professions and in no sense either labour or skilled, is to give you THEIR OPINIONS
1419423;1456858397;mircea_popescu;entirely fucking different story from doing any kind of work.
1419424;1456858398;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i deal in boards that spontaneously turn into radioactive weevils.
1419425;1456858398;ben_vulpes;( jurov i chuckled )
1419426;1456858401;asciilifeform;this is not work ?
1419427;1456858405;mircea_popescu;it is not work.
1419428;1456858416;mircea_popescu;elementary : because it doesn't work.
1419429;1456858428;mircea_popescu;just like medicine doesn't work.
1419430;1456858440;mircea_popescu;"oh, but does it help ?" "i guess..." "WELL THEN!111"
1419431;1456858447;trinque;jurov: gotta go do an errand, but when I'm seated at desk again I'll put some more thought into the section of my nginx config labeled "Fuck you, Anduck"
1419432;1456858455;mircea_popescu;ahahaha what
1419433;1456858460;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: virtually nothing to do with computing, works.
1419434;1456858472;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ikr ? and now we had  to build money on top of it
1419435;1456858483;mircea_popescu;fucking stupidest idea ever, should have tried building it on old crack whores first.
1419436;1456858507;asciilifeform;iirc it still runs on a backbone of crackwhores..
1419437;1456858531;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77450 @ 0.00059476 = 46.0642 BTC [-] {2} 
1419438;1456858538;asciilifeform;anyway i specialize in making some selected subset of it actually WORK.
1419439;1456858553;asciilifeform;as showcased in, e.g., rotor, etc.
1419440;1456858584;asciilifeform;it is done, elementarily, by removing the weevils.
1419441;1456858591;asciilifeform;and working with what remains.
1419442;1456858629;asciilifeform;this is - surprisingly - a rare enough thing that i can live from it.
1419443;1456858648;asciilifeform;but the down side is that, it being rare, there is ~0 demand, most places, most of the time.
1419444;1456858655;asciilifeform;see old threadz, etc.
1419445;1456858728;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> anyway i specialize in making some selected subset of it actually WORK. << this much is true, yes. but you have a finite number of hands!
1419446;1456858751;asciilifeform;aha, and, incidentally, i got 'volunteered' for 1.5 shift .
1419447;1456858758;mircea_popescu;heh
1419448;1456858774;asciilifeform;(supposedly for 1 qrt. but lul!)
1419449;1456858782;mircea_popescu;ahahaha what, awhole quarter ?
1419450;1456858791;asciilifeform;aha.
1419451;1456858816;mircea_popescu;lol. well, the plan is working splendidly. who'd bother shooting you, you're rather easy to mothball anyway.
1419452;1456858856;mircea_popescu;anyway. bill's up, i guess im closing down this phuctor server and eating the 2 month bill as cdb ?
1419453;1456858866;asciilifeform;mno.
1419454;1456858869;mircea_popescu;well ?
1419455;1456858872;asciilifeform;it goes up this week.
1419456;1456858877;asciilifeform;db nearly done regrinding.
1419457;1456858879;mircea_popescu;they may well cut it off this week.
1419458;1456858908;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: gimme an addr, i'll pay for it myself until it is +ev.
1419459;1456858916;mircea_popescu;nuts.
1419460;1456858942;mircea_popescu;this is how you end up volunteered for 1.5 shifts, you know.
1419461;1456858960;asciilifeform;it pays.
1419462;1456858973;mircea_popescu;there is also that, yeah. anyway!
1419463;1456858986;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu himself taught us, 'dont't be poorfag'
1419464;1456859005;mircea_popescu;i think i'm done raging for the day.
1419465;1456859019;asciilifeform;my not-so-secret plan is to take some unpaid leave, possibly in summer.
1419466;1456859038;asciilifeform;and, in order to have ~with what~ - well.
1419467;1456859064;asciilifeform;anyway mircea_popescu signed addr plox.
1419468;1456859086;mircea_popescu;and apologies to all the people waiting on https://bitbet.us/bet/1209/jeb-bush-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/ payouts. they're out now, 3confirms.
1419469;1456859087;assbot;BitBet - Jeb Bush will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee :: 1.63 B (9%) on Yes, 16.49 B (91%) on No | closed 1 week 2 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1KJwPbF )
1419470;1456859094;mircea_popescu;i blame cascading failure in teh bitcoin stack.
1419471;1456859202;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59748 @ 0.00059874 = 35.7735 BTC [+] {2} 
1419472;1456859446;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33450 @ 0.00059044 = 19.7502 BTC [-] {3} 
1419473;1456859841;ben_vulpes;wait how is phyctor going to be +ev?
1419474;1456859851;ben_vulpes;and what is 'cdb' mircea_popescu ?
1419475;1456859877;mircea_popescu;cost of doing business
1419476;1456859886;ben_vulpes;!up Anduck
1419477;1456859890;Anduck;thank you very much
1419478;1456859895;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: snsa is supposed to drag phuctor as a sled behind it
1419479;1456859924;mircea_popescu;i dunno, originally it was a pretty good marketing tool.
1419480;1456859927;asciilifeform;initially, mircea_popescu propelled the sled
1419481;1456859931;asciilifeform;then - the shareholders
1419482;1456859931;mircea_popescu;but then got bogged down.
1419483;1456859940;asciilifeform;but i say that until the engine is ready, i will pull sled with own back.
1419484;1456859960;Anduck;fwiw, i tried to pm with trinque but he kept ignoring me from the beginning. my script accidentally used his site too frequently and now he's doing this, annoying me occasionally with sudden "fuck you anduck" hilights etc
1419485;1456859974;mircea_popescu;!down Anduck
1419486;1456859984;mircea_popescu;seriously, guy's a retard, that's all there is to it.
1419487;1456859990;asciilifeform;!s gettrust Anduck
1419488;1456859991;assbot;12 results for 'gettrust Anduck' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gettrust+Anduck
1419489;1456859996;asciilifeform;!gettrust Anduck
1419490;1456859997;assbot;Trust relationship from user asciilifeform to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -6 via 10 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/
1419491;1456860001;asciilifeform;there we go.
1419492;1456860145;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00083074 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $900 before Sep 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1251/bitcoin-to-top-900-before-sep-2016/#b1
1419493;1456860387;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dulap is not only platform for phuctor, but will host 'g', gossip, etc., and is presently the largest and most reliable trb battleship. and i will pay for it personally, because wtf.
1419494;1456860666;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00058703 = 13.5604 BTC [-]
1419495;1456861021;thestringpuller;!s zulag
1419496;1456861021;assbot;5 results for 'zulag' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=zulag
1419497;1456861041;ben_vulpes;!s zoolag
1419498;1456861042;assbot;96 results for 'zoolag' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=zoolag
1419499;1456861167;thestringpuller;thx ben_vulpes
1419500;1456861288;asciilifeform;zoolag is a different machine !
1419501;1456861293;asciilifeform;it lives at my house.
1419502;1456861298;asciilifeform;not related to dulap except in the fact that both are trb nodes.
1419503;1456861303;asciilifeform;(and both are gardened by yours truly)
1419504;1456861355;thestringpuller;!s phuctor status
1419505;1456861355;assbot;0 results for 'phuctor status' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=phuctor+status
1419506;1456861359;thestringpuller;:(
1419507;1456861398;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36180 @ 0.00058608 = 21.2044 BTC [-] {2} 
1419508;1456861459;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78870 @ 0.000586 = 46.2178 BTC [-]
1419509;1456861635;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes yes
1419510;1456861764;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43850 @ 0.00059664 = 26.1627 BTC [+] {3} 
1419511;1456862774;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 7.50000000 BTC on 'No' - Bernie Sanders will be Democrats' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1242/bernie-sanders-will-be-democrats-2016-presidential-nominee/#b26
1419512;1456863167;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91050 @ 0.000586 = 53.3553 BTC [-]
1419513;1456863443;kakobrekla;http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-ethereum-startup-blockchain/ << "The simple, rapid and flexible one-click deploy of Ethereum blockchain architecture launched on the Microsoft Azure Marketplace enables enterprises and developers to quickly deploy a certified blockchain environment on Azure."
1419514;1456863444;assbot;Microsoft Certifies Ethereum Offering in Blockchain Service First - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPqCzW )
1419515;1456863456;kakobrekla;eth goes up another 20 purrcent
1419516;1456863495;mircea_popescu;shall be a fun year.
1419517;1456863709;deedbot-;[Trilema] MPEx (S.MPOE) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/mpex-smpoe-february-2016-statement/
1419518;1456863785;asciilifeform;in unrelated-to-anything nyooz, if anyone wants a patched (removed idiot pci whitelist) heathen bios for x60, email me.
1419519;1456864265;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38680 @ 0.000586 = 22.6665 BTC [-]
1419520;1456864326;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42895 @ 0.00058376 = 25.0404 BTC [-] {2} 
1419521;1456864814;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00059511 = 10.1169 BTC [+]
1419522;1456865302;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00059735 = 24.8796 BTC [+] {2} 
1419523;1456866583;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57700 @ 0.00058671 = 33.8532 BTC [-] {3} 
1419524;1456866827;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82749 @ 0.00058113 = 48.0879 BTC [-] {4} 
1419525;1456866986;asciilifeform;https://codereview.chromium.org/6648002 << many lulz
1419526;1456866988;assbot;Issue 6648002: Make DBUS an optional dependency so Chromium can be built without it.... -        Code Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1oWIGx8 )
1419527;1456867026;asciilifeform;'oh noez, without dbus, how will wwwtron ask your wifi card to snitch your gps coords'
1419528;1456867252;asciilifeform;https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/24589 << rogue's gallery of crud.
1419529;1456867254;assbot;Is dbus really needed? | The FreeBSD Forums ... ( http://bit.ly/216ZZqT )
1419530;1456867304;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b129
1419531;1456867315;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26800 @ 0.00058006 = 15.5456 BTC [-]
1419532;1456868352;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57850 @ 0.00059742 = 34.5607 BTC [+]
1419533;1456868355;mircea_popescu;that trump thing's on fire
1419534;1456868410;kakobrekla;too bad we dont get elections more often
1419535;1456868413;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25726 @ 0.00059592 = 15.3306 BTC [-]
1419536;1456868447;mircea_popescu;lol
1419537;1456868533;mircea_popescu;and in other usda news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/d66ceb781a14c8f70b3183b999b9ba4a/tumblr_mmput3xwme1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1419538;1456868534;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/2171hlu )
1419539;1456869024;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419533 << snore, clitler is inevitable
1419540;1456869024;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 21:39:15; mircea_popescu: that trump thing's on fire
1419541;1456869297;mircea_popescu;i dunno, she has such a perfect loser face.
1419542;1456869422;asciilifeform; 'fata de impins vagoane' !
1419543;1456869440;mircea_popescu;lol
1419544;1456869454;mircea_popescu;not really, she's rather lizard faced, neh ?
1419545;1456869538;*;asciilifeform not master of faces.
1419546;1456869542;asciilifeform;but yeah.
1419547;1456869816;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113216 @ 0.00058388 = 66.1046 BTC [-] {3} 
1419548;1456869877;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 530800 @ 0.00057366 = 304.4987 BTC [-] {11} 
1419549;1456869938;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 271975 @ 0.00056977 = 154.9632 BTC [-] {9} 
1419550;1456869999;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138750 @ 0.00056924 = 78.9821 BTC [-] {2} 
1419551;1456870365;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47300 @ 0.00056877 = 26.9028 BTC [-]
1419552;1456871312;mats;it slides
1419553;1456871526;mircea_popescu;heh look at that, mpex was almost 60k again
1419554;1456871829;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056877 = 7.9628 BTC [-]
1419555;1456871890;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00056899 = 17.0697 BTC [+]
1419556;1456871906;jurov;http://therealbitcoin.org/deedbot.org/index.html soo, the mirror is here. of course nothing is so simple, i ran into wget trying to follow urls in .txt (!) files and even trying to fix them(!!!)
1419557;1456871907;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1oNm41b )
1419558;1456871917;mircea_popescu;lmao
1419559;1456871951;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96259 @ 0.000569 = 54.7714 BTC [+]
1419560;1456872134;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00056856 = 11.3712 BTC [-] {3} 
1419561;1456872182;mircea_popescu;jurov very good thing tho, deedbot mirror.
1419562;1456872195;mircea_popescu;does it contain enough info to verify the deeds ?
1419563;1456872245;jurov;only if deedbot.org contains
1419564;1456872377;trinque;the FAQ page specifies how to verify them if one has a deed bundle
1419565;1456872406;mircea_popescu;aite just make sure some silly tidbit doesn't get lost and we find ourselves stranded
1419566;1456872415;mircea_popescu;maybe try and verify one on the basis of the mirrored data only to be sure ?
1419567;1456872452;trinque;yeah, just a matter of taking the deed bundle txt, performing sha256 and using that as the privkey, generating a pubkey and address from that
1419568;1456872472;trinque;it would be good for me to post an example verifier on the site
1419569;1456872483;trinque;adlai has done so himself, I know
1419570;1456872501;mircea_popescu;well... the deed seals keep getting spent, so someone must be
1419571;1456872622;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00056796 = 34.7024 BTC [-] {3} 
1419572;1456873049;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3524 @ 0.00056774 = 2.0007 BTC [-]
1419573;1456873110;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16276 @ 0.0005677 = 9.2399 BTC [-]
1419574;1456873232;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52659 @ 0.00057157 = 30.0983 BTC [+] {3} 
1419575;1456873438;shinohai;http://trumpdonald.org/
1419576;1456873439;assbot;TrumpDonald.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1oNrwkM )
1419577;1456873779;mircea_popescu;sooo... it pains me to say that bitbet was just on the receiving end of a concerted miner withholding attack.
1419578;1456873835;mircea_popescu;specifically : a set of a dozen or so txn that were trying to pay out winners of a bet went out, only to be "ignored" by the network. they all spent the same inputs. this went on for about a week.
1419579;1456873865;mircea_popescu;once a transaction that DIDN'T spend the same inputs was announced and confirmed, the OLD transactions were somehow found, and are now broadcast.
1419580;1456873903;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160428 @ 0.00056684 = 90.937 BTC [-] {5} 
1419581;1456873907;mircea_popescu;this adds an entire layer of breakage to the already broken bitcoin infrastructure. specifically - due to chinese miner collusion (and yes they do control over 50% of the network) it is impossible to guarantee payment at ANY point in the future.
1419582;1456873921;mircea_popescu;because they can sit on a transaction more or less forever.
1419583;1456873938;mircea_popescu;the damage in this case is ~17 BTC, which whatever - cdb.
1419584;1456873950;mircea_popescu;HOWEVER - bitbet will NOT ever make 2nd transactions for any reason and in any case.
1419585;1456873967;mircea_popescu;this means that if you are waiting on a payment - you got to talk to a miner. bitbet will not further consider any complaints of this nature.
1419586;1456873968;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla ^
1419587;1456874167;kakobrekla;this is a problem.
1419588;1456874198;mircea_popescu;the problem is broadly speaking that bitcoin is not actually fit for commerce, and that fixing it necessarily requires changing the pow to exclude f2pool/antpool/etc.
1419589;1456874203;kakobrekla;afaik would not happen if you would select same inputs to be used for second tx or alternatively rebroadcast the first one
1419590;1456874214;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla this is what i was doing for a fucking week.
1419591;1456874226;mircea_popescu;however - since bitbet publishes the payout addresses, it's trivial for them to know what to sit on.
1419592;1456874235;kakobrekla;the currently unconfirmed tx has 0 fee ?
1419593;1456874261;mircea_popescu;one of the many. understand that there was a set of these.
1419594;1456874264;kakobrekla;and the 29 blocks confirmed one has 0.00022
1419595;1456874283;mircea_popescu;the one you see now was broadcast originally saturday.
1419596;1456874414;kakobrekla;one of txes with erroneous 0 fee also got lost after a 2 or 3 days a couple of days ago
1419597;1456874415;punkman;gotta try to spend/move the old inputs to be sure old transaction doesn't suddenly reappear
1419598;1456874426;kakobrekla;^^
1419599;1456874429;mircea_popescu;punkman except spending goes through the same process generally.
1419600;1456874444;mircea_popescu;if spending worked, the problem wouldn't exist in the first place.
1419601;1456874450;mircea_popescu;but spending doesn't, actually, work.
1419602;1456874483;punkman;myeah, but gotta wait until you succeed before sending 2nd payment
1419603;1456874497;kakobrekla;the problem isnt bitbet being targeted. the problem is 0 fee and the fact you can know if uncofirmed tx is out of EVERYONES mempool.
1419604;1456874497;mircea_popescu;but the whole KEY of the thing is that this "wait until you succeed" ~= infinity.
1419605;1456874518;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla understand : just because they picked one particular txn out of a set of txn they withheld should NOT be an argument they may bring.
1419606;1456874648;kakobrekla;anyway, tx is unconfirmed at this time with 0 fee, it will take a while to get included in a block if it even will be. you can try to doublespend those inputs to a different address and save the btc.
1419607;1456874661;mircea_popescu;and the one doublespending it with a fee is... not visible. right ?
1419608;1456874662;mircea_popescu;win.
1419609;1456874678;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry. i mean... sorry for your win.
1419610;1456874681;mircea_popescu;or... wait, how did it go ?
1419611;1456874700;kakobrekla;txid ?
1419612;1456874732;mircea_popescu;b28245044ac784766b58dcef00750608400c43bd63dce0f8c41491bd9405ad3a
1419613;1456874735;mircea_popescu;for instance.
1419614;1456874772;kakobrekla;that is the doublespend of de9bc173174f5ae97e7fe0d2e171647cade189c76f9cbe48f37494c973aca2e4 ?
1419615;1456874796;mircea_popescu;well, i'm going to make more, and try to mine them and etc, but yes.
1419616;1456874861;mircea_popescu;anyway. miners must be broken, burned and the land fucking salted.
1419617;1456874868;mircea_popescu;worst enemy of the coin.
1419618;1456874874;kakobrekla;its possible you are connected to a node pocket - trb do not like non-trb nodeas (ban hammer) so they are only left connected (mostly) to trb, not prb which you need if you want the world to see your txes
1419619;1456874901;mircea_popescu;all sorts of things are possible.
1419620;1456874904;mircea_popescu;apparently.
1419621;1456874956;deedbot-;[serialized delusions] Wget malignant featuritis - http://explo.yt/post/2016/03/02/Wget-malignant-featuritis
1419622;1456875001;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38950 @ 0.00056633 = 22.0586 BTC [-]
1419623;1456875028;kakobrekla;jurov ends with 'Also, I should' ?
1419624;1456875045;jurov;fixed that
1419625;1456875054;kakobrekla;kk
1419626;1456875058;jurov;oh somebody reads my blog?
1419627;1456875068;mircea_popescu;eh get out of here, many people read your blog.
1419628;1456875083;punkman;https://github.com/chfoo/wpull wget alternative
1419629;1456875085;assbot;GitHub - chfoo/wpull: Wget-compatible web downloader and crawler. ... ( http://bit.ly/1T6JBY1 )
1419630;1456875114;kakobrekla;anyway, given the current state of txes there is a good chance that evil 0 fee tx will get forgotten again
1419631;1456875123;kakobrekla;'forgotten'.
1419632;1456875129;kakobrekla;gotta move the coins.
1419633;1456875135;punkman;once you broadcast you can never assume it's forgotten
1419634;1456875138;mircea_popescu;i personally think the only reason it's not mined yet is that there hasn't been a block.
1419635;1456875144;kakobrekla;punkman hence added quotes
1419636;1456875171;kakobrekla;2 blocks in past 9 minutes
1419637;1456875202;mircea_popescu;doesn't need to be in the next one. understand how miner collusion works.
1419638;1456875212;mircea_popescu;as long as the competitor isn't mined, what's the hurry ?
1419639;1456875249;kakobrekla;anyway, 'some party' cant order ALL the miners 'not to include' your tx really.
1419640;1456875258;mircea_popescu;400736 was empty, for instance.
1419641;1456875267;mircea_popescu;no, not ALL. just enough of an all.
1419642;1456875269;kakobrekla;and we ha ve 737
1419643;1456875316;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b11
1419644;1456875704;kakobrekla;can you share the tx hex of b28245044ac784766b58dcef00750608400c43bd63dce0f8c41491bd9405ad3a ?
1419645;1456875948;mircea_popescu;aaaaand it confirmed
1419646;1456875960;mircea_popescu;how about that kakobrekla ! not bad for a 0 fee tx "in this climate" eh ?
1419647;1456875983;kakobrekla;is not bad no, i guess the size and age did it just.
1419648;1456875989;mircea_popescu;oh oh
1419649;1456876002;mircea_popescu;not saturday, right ? and not the one before it, when the bet closed
1419650;1456876011;mircea_popescu;just now, an hour after the other one, all it needs is a block.
1419651;1456876015;mircea_popescu;i'm so ever impressed.
1419652;1456876087;mircea_popescu;for the record, there are about 50k txn with a higher per-byte offering, and all of those have been in the mempool for ehhh i dunno, a week more than half hour ?
1419653;1456876155;kakobrekla;i could easily get past fee paying txes with large and old inputs without fee months ago. i reckon this still stands.
1419654;1456876160;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47608 @ 0.00056821 = 27.0513 BTC [+]
1419655;1456876174;mircea_popescu;dude what nonsense is this.
1419656;1456876187;mircea_popescu;so a tx is broadcast, saturday. it doesn't even register.
1419657;1456876196;mircea_popescu;then it just so happens that tuesday night it's good enough ?
1419658;1456876233;kakobrekla;you get higher priority when unconfirmed time rises, yes.
1419659;1456876236;mircea_popescu;this is the smoking gun re miner collusion to scam bitbet. the loing and the short of it.
1419660;1456876245;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla IT HAD NO UNCONFIRMED TIME
1419661;1456876278;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 15.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b130
1419662;1456876288;mircea_popescu;it was a 20 minute old txn at the time it was included in a block.
1419663;1456876293;kakobrekla;you cant just delete tx from EVERYONES mempool
1419664;1456876300;mircea_popescu;heh.
1419665;1456876301;mircea_popescu;but you can.
1419666;1456876306;mircea_popescu;someone just did.
1419667;1456876349;mircea_popescu;"Received 17 minutes ago Confirmations 3/6 "
1419668;1456876351;mircea_popescu;how do you like that!
1419669;1456876385;kakobrekla;for all we knowKnCMiner or whoever mined it, had it in his mempool all this time.
1419670;1456876397;mircea_popescu;they're witholding blocks (what, you think the blocks you see are the blocks at they're mined ?!), they're withholding txn now, etc.
1419671;1456876420;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla yeah, had it in sidepool for 4 days, waiting to see if i repay it without doublespent. which i did. today. 2 hours ago.
1419672;1456876468;kakobrekla;actually no need to rebroadcast in that case, you can just include in block - would not see it as uncofirmed at all.
1419673;1456876479;kakobrekla;so somebody else had it as well.
1419674;1456876500;mircea_popescu;understand : at the time you saw it as "broadcast" it was ALREADY included in a block
1419675;1456876504;mircea_popescu;that was at the time withheld.
1419676;1456876513;ben_vulpes;waiwut how does it make economic sense to not release blocks?
1419677;1456876522;mircea_popescu;because miner colusion, again.
1419678;1456876535;kakobrekla;it could be malicious act by someone who won that bet. saw a 0 conf tx and tried to take advantage of this what just happened.
1419679;1456876537;mircea_popescu;you don't see nasdaq data straight, but with half hour delay
1419680;1456876551;mircea_popescu;why do you expect you see block data ? chinese miners have their own pre-time network.
1419681;1456876568;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla only miners in control of well over 90% of hash can attempt this sort of inept shit.
1419682;1456876612;kakobrekla;anyone could have done it as long as it fools you that it has been 'forgotten'.
1419683;1456876616;mircea_popescu;in fact - once you have 51% you can withhold blocks forever with impunity - time works in your favour.
1419684;1456876619;kakobrekla;and needs resigning.
1419685;1456876638;mircea_popescu;the only anyone who can destroy a txn is the anyone who controls the mining.
1419686;1456876688;kakobrekla;flood of txes + 0 fee tx brings about good chance of falling out block readers
1419687;1456876724;mircea_popescu;i can't comprehend what you're trying to argue here. you're roughly in the position of a prison warden facing an empty cell and a hole in the wall going "hey, water infiltration can sometimes make holes in walls"
1419688;1456876727;mircea_popescu;yeah, i'm sure they can.
1419689;1456876946;kakobrekla;its not impossible you will make a tx from some inputs, which will be 'forgotten' and say fuck you [i only a slight problem so far as long as the tx hex is published and can be rebroadcast] and then later on use those same inputs for another tx [i have a larger problem with that]
1419690;1456876959;kakobrekla;because you leave it the bitcoind to select the inputs.
1419691;1456876981;mircea_popescu;say wut ?
1419692;1456877067;mircea_popescu;look, let's try and get on the same page here. so saturday (sunday by bitbet time) the 20th (21st) this bet https://bitbet.us/bet/1209/jeb-bush-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/ was resolved and paid out. the transaction doing this used some inputs to pay out the winners. let's call it tx A1.
1419693;1456877068;assbot;BitBet - Jeb Bush will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee :: 1.63 B (9%) on Yes, 16.49 B (91%) on No | closed 1 week 2 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1KJwPbF )
1419694;1456877094;mircea_popescu;later throughout the weekend, tx A1 was not visible in the bitcoin network, in spite of being broadcast to 100s of peers.
1419695;1456877130;mircea_popescu;as a result, tx A2 was created, monday, spending the same inputs, paying a fee, and was broadcast.
1419696;1456877144;mircea_popescu;throughout the following 48 hours, neither A1 or A2 were visible on the network.
1419697;1456877173;mircea_popescu;a flurry of other txn, all spending the same inputs and paying ever more in fee were broadcast up until, most recently, march 1st (~16 hours ago).
1419698;1456877213;kakobrekla;you pay out bet A with inputs Ia and sufficient fee. tx gets 'lost', not confirmed. people bitch. you post the tx hex so people them selfs can re-broadcast it. however for as long as that tx is not included in the block you can not spend those same Ia inputs.
1419699;1456877217;mircea_popescu;about three hours ago, tx B, with the same outputs as An, but with different inputs was broadcast. this tx was visible in the mempool throujghout the network as normal, and was included in a block in half an hour.
1419700;1456877249;mircea_popescu;about half an hour AFTER that inclusion, transaction A1 was REBROADCAST, and within 20 minutes of its rebroadcasting, in spite of no fee, low miner priority etc, was included in a block.
1419701;1456877258;mircea_popescu;this is, unless you're insane, sufficient proof that
1419702;1456877280;mircea_popescu;a) a majority of miners (ie, pool operators) on the bitcoin network conspire together to selectively deny valid transactions
1419703;1456877305;mircea_popescu;b) the same majority of miners is running a withdheld block scheme, where they keep about a half hour time differential between the ACTUAL head of the bitcoin chain and what they published.
1419704;1456877328;mircea_popescu;both of these are serious concerns, and both of these are, strictu sensu, sufficient to prove, not to propose, that bitcoin is not actually functional.
1419705;1456877342;mircea_popescu;moroever, both of these are factual matters, on the basis of observed behaviour.
1419706;1456877345;mircea_popescu;that's about it.
1419707;1456877399;kakobrekla;thats one explanation however taking in account my own experiences with it - i am by your definition insane.
1419708;1456877429;kakobrekla;anyway, for as long as the original tx is not included you must be careful not to spend those inputs in another tx. even if that means forever.
1419709;1456877431;mircea_popescu;look, i know oodles of people have observed what to them seems "just normal wierdness"
1419710;1456877443;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419588 << axe time sword time!!111
1419711;1456877443;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 23:16:38; mircea_popescu: the problem is broadly speaking that bitcoin is not actually fit for commerce, and that fixing it necessarily requires changing the pow to exclude f2pool/antpool/etc.
1419712;1456877450;mircea_popescu;this is fine and good. however - i nicely structured this specifically to satisfy my own inquisitive mind. i am satisfied.
1419713;1456877513;kakobrekla;i guess its time to add 'raw hex tx' data for re-broadcasting to bitbet resolved bets
1419714;1456877525;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pretty much. i don't see what else is there. this is the fabled hour of reckoning, best i can tell
1419715;1456877526;mircea_popescu;as per http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/
1419716;1456877527;assbot;The Hour Of Reckoning on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KNFRFX )
1419717;1456877538;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419616 << i have hated them since t=0
1419718;1456877538;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 23:27:41; mircea_popescu: anyway. miners must be broken, burned and the land fucking salted.
1419719;1456877554;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla im still thinking what the best solution to this would be, but as far as bitbet is concerned quite likely something like that.
1419720;1456877590;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla not that it'd actually do anything, just adds a gauge.
1419721;1456877660;asciilifeform;miningisabug (tm) (r)
1419722;1456877691;mircea_popescu;whatever mining may be, it's not jsut the codebase that's broken. bitcoin, per se, is not currently functional.
1419723;1456877695;asciilifeform;wake me up when it's time for the keccak knife.
1419724;1456877905;adlai;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/0W1Q4RR.txt
1419725;1456877906;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QpTsSY )
1419726;1456877911;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1419727;1456877913;mircea_popescu;anyway. at present the best short-term course is, of course, publicizing the matter.
1419728;1456877924;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what do the miners win from this behaviour ?
1419729;1456877940;asciilifeform;usg payola?
1419730;1456877941;mircea_popescu;i suppose we're at the chinese phase of exchanging insults.
1419731;1456877951;mircea_popescu;nah, usg doesn't figure into this as much as a prince albert.
1419732;1456878033;asciilifeform;i mean, if declaring war of the worlds, would be good to know why.
1419733;1456878045;asciilifeform;if even knowable.
1419734;1456878062;mircea_popescu;why what ? why b) ? because it's way the fuck safer for them if any would-be competing cartel starts with a half hour disadvantage.
1419735;1456878072;mircea_popescu;or why a) ? possibily because getting cocky about it.
1419736;1456878079;asciilifeform;aaaah
1419737;1456878089;asciilifeform;i think i get.
1419738;1456878180;mircea_popescu;typical behaviour of spider unaware that what it's trying to catch is a wasp. that eats spiders.
1419739;1456878373;*;asciilifeform bbl, is actually in one of the very few restaurants run by actual chinese here, and dinner is served
1419740;1456878660;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b13
1419741;1456878672;adlai;;;later tell asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418562 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2014#868648 but it was pmspam, who knows where he found me
1419742;1456878672;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 23:31:57; asciilifeform: (adlai ?)
1419743;1456878672;assbot;Logged on 11-10-2014 14:12:44; Adlai: kakobrekla (~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla): o hey lisp and bitcoins. you might wanna check out #bitcoin-assets
1419744;1456878672;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1419745;1456878791;shinohai;;;blocks
1419746;1456878792;gribble;400745
1419747;1456879360;trinque;jurov: adlai: deedbot- node chewed his wallet.dat into pieces again, re-importing key. on my list of tasks for this week is to look into using shiva interfaces for this.
1419748;1456879368;trinque;your deeds will go out soon as he's able
1419749;1456879433;trinque;actually it looks like jurov's already has
1419750;1456879440;*;trinque brb
1419751;1456879881;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21990 @ 0.00056937 = 12.5204 BTC [+] {2} 
1419752;1456881086;jurov;mircea_popescu: mpex.biz does not recognize my sig and mpex.site threw error 500
1419753;1456881139;mircea_popescu;jurov heh. moment.
1419754;1456881528;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00056821 = 8.6368 BTC [-] {2} 
1419755;1456882613;asciilifeform;sooooo i discovered that emacs can be de-dbus-ed on gentoo by zapping gtk3
1419756;1456882618;asciilifeform;(package.mask)
1419757;1456882639;asciilifeform;this appears to cure all poetteringism in one stroke of the knife.
1419758;1456882692;asciilifeform;supposing that anyone gives a fuck.
1419759;1456883322;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> wake me up when it's time for the keccak knife. << Is there a possibru lAb project here?
1419760;1456883349;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: understand, i do not need moar projects for anything.
1419761;1456883358;asciilifeform;but when it is time for the knife - it will be time for the knife.
1419762;1456883372;asciilifeform;(unless mircea_popescu wants to do it himself, which in his place i probably would)
1419763;1456883411;BingoBoingo;Of course not, but mebbe keccak miner can be pet project for pet to play with? Every cat needs string, or in their absence lasers.
1419764;1456883436;asciilifeform;pet does other things.
1419765;1456883477;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo im writing a qntra piece re the thing, gimme an hour.
1419766;1456883510;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Cool, ty
1419767;1456883543;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Pretty much the definition of pet is gets to do what it wants, but many pets take suggestions.
1419768;1456884421;BingoBoingo;!rate uchi -1 copyrigh wankery
1419769;1456884421;assbot;uchi is not registered in WoT.
1419770;1456884441;BingoBoingo;;;rate uchi -1 US copyrasta wankery
1419771;1456884441;gribble;Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
1419772;1456884586;BingoBoingo;;;rate uchi -1 US copyrasta wankery
1419773;1456884587;gribble;Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
1419774;1456884883;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00056927 = 5.1234 BTC [+]
1419775;1456884941;mircea_popescu;lol wut ?
1419776;1456885056;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Apparently the dude sold the site to another dude and retroactively converted the sale into a lease by claiming US copyright law.
1419777;1456885074;BingoBoingo;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1382087.msg14065053#msg14065053
1419778;1456885076;assbot;devthedev trying to scam ??? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tml6qf )
1419779;1456885153;mircea_popescu;heh k
1419780;1456885257;BingoBoingo;The scammed dude asked me how to present his dilemma in a way that makes sense that this was the distillation I found most obvious
1419781;1456885287;BingoBoingo;Of course the solution in the long run is to stop trying to do the kind of deals which make this wankery a possibility
1419782;1456885327;BingoBoingo;The WoT, many thought they could find an easier, softer way...
1419783;1456885341;mod6;Good evening Gentlemen.
1419784;1456885367;BingoBoingo;Man gentle to you too mod6
1419785;1456885379;mod6;how's it goin BB?
1419786;1456885429;BingoBoingo;Been better, been worse
1419787;1456885496;mod6;werd.
1419788;1456885506;*;mod6 reads scrollback
1419789;1456886116;BingoBoingo;;;later tell jurov http://qntra.net/2016/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2016-report/#comment-47558
1419790;1456886117;assbot;Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Report | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFiKiz )
1419791;1456886117;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1419792;1456886241;jurov;BingoBoingo: In my reports I prefer to have duplicate numbers instead of omitting, so that I'm sure I don't forget something.
1419793;1456886262;asciilifeform;https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7582318.html?sid=d5ee97fb7c939569d7d52055fdc561e9 << not news, but continuation of earlier.
1419794;1456886265;assbot;Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Can I stay with GTK+2? ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFiWyn )
1419795;1456886273;BingoBoingo;jurov: Ok, will improve now
1419796;1456886344;jurov;i mean just something like "....total of 8335 words. Total 8335 S.QNTR shares are issued to:"
1419797;1456886461;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/0P4EW18.txt
1419798;1456886462;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFjbcA )
1419799;1456886477;BingoBoingo;ty
1419800;1456886536;asciilifeform;https://blog.flameeyes.eu/2010/04/pambase-is-not-that-free << another must-die.
1419801;1456886537;assbot;Pambase is not that free | Flameeyes's Weblog ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFjh41 )
1419802;1456886554;asciilifeform;'a good part of GNOME can now be considered part of the system set. You have to understand that even if it might not be in your system set, or in the default system set for what matters, the packages have to be carefully considered to not break if they are part of the possible system set...'
1419803;1456886559;BingoBoingo;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2WXFPFC
1419804;1456886560;assbot;dpaste: 2WXFPFC ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFjhB9 )
1419805;1456886560;deedbot-;Bad URL or network outage.
1419806;1456886574;BingoBoingo;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2WXFPFC.txt
1419807;1456886575;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFjhRF )
1419808;1456886575;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.94693692 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $900 before Sep 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1251/bitcoin-to-top-900-before-sep-2016/#b5
1419809;1456886577;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1419810;1456886591;BingoBoingo;jurov: Blog version also updated
1419811;1456886642;jurov;(like)
1419812;1456887119;mats;https://github.com/fulldecent/system-bus-radio
1419813;1456887120;assbot;GitHub - fulldecent/system-bus-radio: This program transmits radio on computers without radio transmitting hardware. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RFk7xN )
1419814;1456887126;asciilifeform;mats: ancient news
1419815;1456887136;mats;yes
1419816;1456887156;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419758 << very much i do
1419817;1456887156;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 01:38:12; asciilifeform: supposing that anyone gives a fuck.
1419818;1456887293;asciilifeform;mats: the crapple aspect is interesting though. the laptop monoculture means that folks can finally be relied upon to have the 'standard' antenna.
1419819;1456887301;asciilifeform;i.e. particular length of the bus, and clock.
1419820;1456887329;asciilifeform;whereas when i was doing it as a boy it worked on one 486 box but not another, mostly-identical one.
1419821;1456887650;deedbot-;[Qntra] A Miner Problem - http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/
1419822;1456888284;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i had this exact same experience when making the alphago bet. only difference is that malleation was involved.
1419823;1456888313;asciilifeform;the days-old high-S tx was mined ~immediately~ after i broadcast the doublespend low-S.
1419824;1456888359;asciilifeform;miners - are vermin.
1419825;1456888363;asciilifeform;and understand exactly one language.
1419826;1456888490;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47559
1419827;1456888491;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/24A5LWu )
1419828;1456888491;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1419829;1456888858;mod6;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418803 << i usually just modify the rotor script so that it just builds bitcoind with all of the necessary environment vars set, but comment out the building of BDB/SSL/Boost.  The re-compile usually takes a few minutes.  Not more than say 15.
1419830;1456888858;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
1419831;1456888858;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo for soime reason indentation's off.
1419832;1456888889;mod6;Again, this is for -recompile- only.  Not for initial build. Not for newbs either.
1419833;1456888908;mod6;mircea_popescu: interesting day re-betbet txn & miner witholding.
1419834;1456888920;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: It's how the html you submitted parses. Looks legible even if some line spacing is weird. I just assumed you did that for emphasis.
1419835;1456888936;mircea_popescu;mod6 quite.
1419836;1456888958;asciilifeform; mod6: i have exactly that script.
1419837;1456888974;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo you have two uls in there in succession, wipe one
1419838;1456888979;mod6;the 99997 one were were talkin about yesterday asciilifeform ?
1419839;1456888984;mod6;or the rotor script?
1419840;1456888993;asciilifeform;the latter.
1419841;1456888994;punkman;mircea_popescu: were the disappeared transactions low-s btw?
1419842;1456889042;mod6;ah cool - yeah maybe post in here at some point.  builders may fnd it helpful if they haven't made their own already.
1419843;1456889063;mircea_popescu;punkman yes.
1419844;1456889094;mod6;asciilifeform: also, cool work you started with gossip in asm on a eth card.
1419845;1456889102;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty, fxd
1419846;1456889109;asciilifeform;mod6: long ago
1419847;1456889119;asciilifeform;it is gathering dust sadly
1419848;1456889177;mod6;ah. ok, just looking for more time or for someone to pick up where you left off?
1419849;1456889194;mod6;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419713 << seems ok. at least a guy can rebroadcast.
1419850;1456889194;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 00:11:53; kakobrekla: i guess its time to add 'raw hex tx' data for re-broadcasting to bitbet resolved bets
1419851;1456889212;mircea_popescu;it's certainly a step in the right direction
1419852;1456889218;mircea_popescu;(rub miner's nose in their doo-doo)
1419853;1456889235;mod6;yeah, this stuff has gone too far.
1419854;1456889240;asciilifeform;kakobrekla has it.
1419855;1456889257;asciilifeform;and maybe time for high-S miner?!
1419856;1456889283;BingoBoingo;!up _FeltPen
1419857;1456889293;_FeltPen;Thank you.
1419858;1456889316;punkman;pen goes where
1419859;1456889351;_FeltPen;where the sword wont?
1419860;1456889362;mod6;in pooper.
1419861;1456889381;BingoBoingo;;;google buttcoins nao
1419862;1456889382;gribble;They really are Buttcoins nao on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/they-really-are-buttcoins-nao>; February 2013 on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2013/02>; Bitcoin on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/bitcoin/>
1419863;1456889423;mod6;weird, i thought that was in '12
1419864;1456889518;_FeltPen;too dark
1419865;1456889713;mod6;im gonna re-read that whole thread
1419866;1456889750;punkman;http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-March/012485.html
1419867;1456889751;assbot;[bitcoin-dev] Soft fork for BIPs 68, 112, and 113 ... ( http://bit.ly/1oNXa1E )
1419868;1456889751;mod6;oh there's even a qntra post.
1419869;1456890568;punkman;http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-February/012470.html interesting
1419870;1456890568;assbot;[bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Vaults. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qr3NBv )
1419871;1456891071;punkman;http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE2LzAyLzI1LzMxL01hY2Jvb2tTZWxmLjQyYTI3LmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/060a074f/008/MacbookSelfie.jpg
1419872;1456891071;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qr4afi )
1419873;1456891245;BingoBoingo;Perhaps there is a new idiocy inhereted though the "Core" client fork https://archive.is/cIZOG
1419874;1456891245;assbot;Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qr4jiQ )
1419875;1456891762;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419869 <<<<<< http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#920116
1419876;1456891762;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 03:49:28; punkman: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-February/012470.html interesting
1419877;1456891762;assbot;Logged on 13-11-2014 19:06:33; asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
1419878;1456892030;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/jqaKP
1419879;1456892031;assbot;Probably 51+ Percent Collusion And Cartel Action : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qr4Q4B )
1419880;1456892224;ben_vulpes;mod6: this is 'rotor_bitcoin_only.sh' in the rotor tarball
1419881;1456892321;asciilifeform;aha.
1419882;1456892328;asciilifeform;i still use it.
1419883;1456892391;punkman;bip64?
1419884;1456892409;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419829 << with phf's patch (are you going to post that to the ML or shall i?), my post-clean compile takes 1m 16s
1419885;1456892409;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 03:20:58; mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418803 << i usually just modify the rotor script so that it just builds bitcoind with all of the necessary environment vars set, but comment out the building of BDB/SSL/Boost.  The re-compile usually takes a few minutes.  Not more than say 15.
1419886;1456892418;asciilifeform;punkman: ?
1419887;1456892446;ben_vulpes;on a 2.66 GHz IC2Duo.
1419888;1456892454;asciilifeform;punkman: the timelock thing
1419889;1456892465;ben_vulpes;i have no idea if this is an abnormally long or short time
1419890;1456892476;asciilifeform;and in general all variations on the 'locked coins' crapola
1419891;1456892492;asciilifeform;it is all for one thing.
1419892;1456892497;ben_vulpes;5s after adding a printf to shiva.cpp
1419893;1456892532;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform lemme guess, "consumers expect" ?
1419894;1456892533;ben_vulpes;i have no idea if this is fast or slow
1419895;1456892569;mod6;ben_vulpes: ahh. ok
1419896;1456892651;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: astonishing, how the same old crud comes back again, again.
1419897;1456892702;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419829 << with phf's patch (are you going to post that to the ML or shall i?), my post-clean compile takes 1m 16s << im not aware of phf's patch. i did recompile with shiva when it was first introduced, didn't add or subtract any compile time as far as I could tell.
1419898;1456892702;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 03:20:58; mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418803 << i usually just modify the rotor script so that it just builds bitcoind with all of the necessary environment vars set, but comment out the building of BDB/SSL/Boost.  The re-compile usually takes a few minutes.  Not more than say 15.
1419899;1456892775;ben_vulpes;mod6: phf dumped a patch in the logs for compiling under gcc
1419900;1456892785;ben_vulpes;works like a chaaaarm
1419901;1456892789;asciilifeform;waiwut
1419902;1456892799;asciilifeform;you mean, under clang?
1419903;1456892862;ben_vulpes;er yes
1419904;1456892864;ben_vulpes;sorry
1419905;1456892866;ben_vulpes;clang
1419906;1456892891;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: 'parsimoniously'
1419907;1456892901;BingoBoingo;what should it be?
1419908;1456892930;ben_vulpes;it /should/ be 'parsimoniously'
1419909;1456892931;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: nm, fxd
1419910;1456893104;mod6;ah, ok. will have to check it out.
1419911;1456893128;mod6;anyway, gn all. will check back in later.
1419912;1456893155;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: why would the cartel have picked up the original 0 fee transaction instead of the feeful later?
1419913;1456893167;mircea_popescu;ftr ben_vulpes the c spelling is antiquated but english!
1419914;1456893185;ben_vulpes;since when is english a supported language
1419915;1456893185;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i have no idea.
1419916;1456893241;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: plz to replace 'o' with '0' in my comment if possible
1419917;1456893311;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419855 << you know, if the cost of running a pool is only 1% over subsidy + fees...
1419918;1456893311;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 03:27:37; asciilifeform: and maybe time for high-S miner?!
1419919;1456893342;mircea_popescu;on what miners ben_vulpes ?
1419920;1456893354;ben_vulpes;rental miners
1419921;1456893361;ben_vulpes;this was a thread?!
1419922;1456893361;mircea_popescu;rented from... whom ? bitfury ?
1419923;1456893378;asciilifeform;l0l!
1419924;1456893385;mircea_popescu;samsung ? the fabled garage miner that hasn't existed since 2013 ?
1419925;1456893392;ben_vulpes;are there no hashrentiers in the wot?
1419926;1456893401;mircea_popescu;bitcoin got a problem, and it ain't no stinkin' "scalability". au contraire.
1419927;1456893421;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes understand, this isn't a field that takes well to distribution.
1419928;1456893443;asciilifeform;i did warn, re mining.
1419929;1456893450;ben_vulpes;the fiat competition was supposed to solve this, but unfortunately the trumpenreich is just TOO GODDAMN INCOMPETENT TO EVEN COMPETE WITH THE CHICOMS
1419930;1456893451;mircea_popescu;pretty much the only way to handle centralization in mining as it is designed is through periodically picking up the fattest pig and throwing it through a glass pane.
1419931;1456893467;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes aha. the americans did what they do best - lost.
1419932;1456893481;mircea_popescu;fabulously, utterly, completely, 18 months they're wiped.
1419933;1456893482;ben_vulpes;gl0rious v1ctory!
1419934;1456893495;ben_vulpes;as reported in the grey whore!
1419935;1456893507;mircea_popescu;and now we got a problem.
1419936;1456893515;*;ben_vulpes experimenting with two-line popescu/datstoievsky fusions
1419937;1456893527;ben_vulpes;or however you spell your name
1419938;1456893539;mircea_popescu;lmao
1419939;1456893548;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes is drinkng?
1419940;1456893564;ben_vulpes;no less than usual
1419941;1456893582;mircea_popescu;a problem which to my eye looms a lot larger than whatever, "the last time english speaker wrote usable code was before they had electric typewriters"
1419942;1456893594;ben_vulpes;( asciilifeform: 'markoving')
1419943;1456893655;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo so is teh buttcoin crowd all giddy with excited shock ?
1419944;1456893674;asciilifeform;'in my country there is problem...' (tm) (r) ('borat')
1419945;1456893692;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Haven't really noticed it yet
1419946;1456893956;ben_vulpes;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#0207 << help
1419947;1456893957;assbot;Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1QqcEjy )
1419948;1456893972;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00056821 = 7.3867 BTC [-]
1419949;1456893987;ben_vulpes;double right angles means 'put this value over here', right? but how does it make sense to put nBits into...24?
1419950;1456894013;*;ben_vulpes hums 'throw the jew down the well'
1419951;1456894235;mircea_popescu;doesn't it mean "shift bits by this many" ?
1419952;1456894248;punkman;you can never know with c++ :P
1419953;1456894280;mircea_popescu;it's either "shift bits by this many", "output to this entity" or else "pleasure my wife"
1419954;1456894318;ben_vulpes;i have had two beers and a glass of wine since 5pm and none of that has made me nearly as ill as this line of cpp
1419955;1456894330;punkman;except someone overrode "pleasure my wife" and it's now "rape my mouth with 12 inch dildo"
1419956;1456894335;ben_vulpes;aaaaa
1419957;1456894356;ben_vulpes;right because '>>' can be overridden at the...object(?) level in c++
1419958;1456894358;hanbot;hey mircea_popescu, is it okay if i defer this month's pc4 report and combine in april?
1419959;1456894384;ben_vulpes;hanbot has sensitive bets in flight?!
1419960;1456894386;mircea_popescu;hanbot alright.
1419961;1456894400;punkman;bitbet idea: "will mpif find a new PC in 2016?"
1419962;1456894406;ben_vulpes;punkman: lol
1419963;1456894420;mircea_popescu;punkman we were always at war with mouth and dildoasia!
1419964;1456894442;hanbot;thanks.
1419965;1456894452;ben_vulpes;and have always been allies with buttlandia
1419966;1456894490;ben_vulpes;ugh
1419967;1456894508;ben_vulpes;were simple sensible human mathematics too dirty for satoshi and company?
1419968;1456894557;mircea_popescu;it's not the c way
1419969;1456894600;ben_vulpes;b-but nBits is an int
1419970;1456894642;punkman;https://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html
1419971;1456894643;assbot;Bit Twiddling Hacks ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPRYqN )
1419972;1456894725;ben_vulpes;NO
1419973;1456894728;ben_vulpes;THIS IS WRONG
1419974;1456894745;ben_vulpes;bit twiddling for motherfucking arithmetic?
1419975;1456894772;ben_vulpes;c++ is an american programming language all right
1419976;1456894777;ben_vulpes;fucking poverty of abstractions
1419977;1456895040;BingoBoingo;Starfish speaks http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47572
1419978;1456895041;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QqegK6 )
1419979;1456895117;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: starfish? rbf?
1419980;1456895313;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b133
1419981;1456895681;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: Yes
1419982;1456895709;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: what does all of this mean
1419983;1456895734;ben_vulpes;ah replace by fee
1419984;1456895738;BingoBoingo;yeah,
1419985;1456895758;ben_vulpes;and starfish means?
1419986;1456895811;BingoBoingo;asshole
1419987;1456895827;BingoBoingo;anus
1419988;1456895829;BingoBoingo;pooper
1419989;1456895850;*;ben_vulpes gives up, falls over, dies, rots, blows away
1419990;1456895928;BingoBoingo;Every derpism like RBF is a new starfish blighting heretic client forks
1419991;1456896551;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b15
1419992;1456897064;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: what does all of this mean << replace byt fee, sorta a poor man's version of your original "run a pool!"
1419993;1456897083;mircea_popescu;somehow this "majority miner changes everything" thing is very hard to see.
1419994;1456897571;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00056821 = 6.7049 BTC [-]
1419995;1456898849;BingoBoingo;More from MP's favorite stalker https://archive.is/aXOMT
1419996;1456898850;assbot;sciencehatesyou comments on Potential Evidence of Miner Collusion Or An Active 51+ Percent Cartel ... ( http://bit.ly/1LU4iyK )
1419997;1456901699;mircea_popescu;heh.
1419998;1456901841;BingoBoingo;That's what, cockpuppet 691 or 692 she called out. Someone needs some Thorazine
1419999;1456902201;mircea_popescu;and the most ... snore, i suppose, aspect of this is that other than the few dedicated philiphinos caught without talking points, the general redditard population is amply incapable of even understanding what was said. at all.
1420000;1456902221;mircea_popescu;"the network will be safe because the miners won't shit in the soup because they'll be too afraid of the public reaction"
1420001;1456902250;mircea_popescu;"yeah, except they'll try it a little sooner or later, and then a little more. and the public is mostly made up of the same public that thought Britney Spears is a singer."
1420002;1456902615;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market --all
1420003;1456902616;gribble;Error: This is not one of the supported markets. Please choose one of ['bcent', 'okc', 'btcn', 'coinbase', 'cbx', 'btce', 'bfx', 'btcavg', 'btcde', 'krk', 'bitmynt', 'btsp'] or 'all'
1420004;1456902627;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --merkel angela
1420005;1456902628;gribble;(ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)
1420006;1456902637;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1420007;1456902644;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 433.0, vol: 6784.34911547 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 433.88, vol: 17762.93680826 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 444.99, vol: 1.91867027 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 441.744954, vol: 78079.43140000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 429.3, vol: 1789.99641091 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 430.865683, vol: 50.712731 | Volume-weighted last average: 439.621312697
1420008;1456906355;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69682 @ 0.0005664 = 39.4679 BTC [-] {4} 
1420009;1456908368;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122800 @ 0.00056531 = 69.4201 BTC [-] {3} 
1420010;1456909135;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.63428528 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b16
1420011;1456914895;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24150 @ 0.00056468 = 13.637 BTC [-] {2} 
1420012;1456918494;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28721 @ 0.00056439 = 16.2098 BTC [-]
1420013;1456918555;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47036 @ 0.00056431 = 26.5429 BTC [-] {2} 
1420014;1456919221;jurov;huh wtf happened to lxr
1420015;1456921085;jurov;debugging left on? ofc
1420016;1456922041;jurov;;;later tell ben_vulpes till the cache hasn't cleared, use http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp?v=0.5.3.1 instead
1420017;1456922042;assbot;Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1oOSPuY )
1420018;1456922042;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1420019;1456922117;jurov;fghj: mod6: also, do you have any hints as what leaves to press and add into lxr?
1420020;1456922886;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00056409 = 8.0947 BTC [-] {2} 
1420021;1456924167;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00056392 = 9.8686 BTC [-]
1420022;1456924594;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00056392 = 1.0151 BTC [-]
1420023;1456927786;punkman;http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2016/03/kanye-west-caught-using-pirate-bay-to-download-music-software/
1420024;1456927789;assbot;Kanye West caught using Pirate Bay to download music software | Ars Technica UK ... ( http://bit.ly/1TRS3ZW )
1420025;1456929696;mircea_popescu;lol go kanye, stickin' it to da man.
1420026;1456929701;mircea_popescu;o... wait...
1420027;1456930145;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00056392 = 11.7295 BTC [-]
1420028;1456930720;PeterL;mircea_popescu: so the Jeb Bush bet winners were sent their winnings twice? Does that 16 btc go as a loss on the bitbet books?
1420029;1456930744;mircea_popescu;PeterL yeap.
1420030;1456930755;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46600 @ 0.0005635 = 26.2591 BTC [-] {2} 
1420031;1456930755;PeterL;Or are you expecting everybody to nicely send back the mistaken funds?
1420032;1456930761;mircea_popescu;haha. what is this, fiat ?
1420033;1456930765;mircea_popescu;no, i don't expect such nonsense.
1420034;1456930773;PeterL;maybe if you ask really nicely?
1420035;1456930789;mircea_popescu;but what sense does it make ?
1420036;1456930801;PeterL;none, none of it makes sense
1420037;1456930818;mircea_popescu;lol
1420038;1456930830;mircea_popescu;and it's actually 17.95 or so
1420039;1456930885;mircea_popescu;anyway, http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47619 ftr. last para.
1420040;1456930886;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/24Bbw6a )
1420041;1456930895;PeterL;to me, it seems like it was just a miner holding onto a zero fee txn, and it happened to move to the top of the 0 fee txn pile right after you resent the txn
1420042;1456930953;mircea_popescu;you're a college man, right ? tokenize the events, assets probabilities per token, calculate the overal chance of this happening.
1420043;1456930964;mircea_popescu;that's how the pros do it, at any rate.
1420044;1456930975;mircea_popescu;assess*
1420045;1456930997;PeterL;have you timed how long it normally takes a 0 fee txn of that size to get into a block?
1420046;1456931013;mircea_popescu;yes we have! it takes it over a week to NOT get into a block :)
1420047;1456931018;mircea_popescu;and it's very scientific : same exact tx!
1420048;1456931100;PeterL;okay, so getting into a block right after your other txn is a bit of a coincidence, but not inconceivable
1420049;1456931421;mircea_popescu;what is this!
1420050;1456931527;PeterL;I think you are just being paranoid
1420051;1456931559;mircea_popescu;this is fine, but also rather irrelevant. migth as well tell darwin he's just being anticlerical.
1420052;1456931581;mircea_popescu;there's actual science work to be done, for they able and willing.
1420053;1456932056;thestringpuller;the node cabal forked from the mining cabal?
1420054;1456932076;thestringpuller;or just the mining cabal silently forked the network...
1420055;1456932133;mircea_popescu;it's one of those "you think you're buying a fine piece of american engineering, but otherwise it's made in china" things.
1420056;1456932149;mircea_popescu;you think you're using the bitcoin network, but in fact you're using the chicoin network.
1420057;1456933453;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: chinese cockroach demolition derby when ?
1420058;1456933469;asciilifeform;can haz front row seat ?
1420059;1456933554;mircea_popescu;well for starters, deleting this "must hardfork to prove we can do it" nonsense and replace it with the much more sensible "must brick miners to prove we can do it", at the very least.
1420060;1456933675;PeterL;I guess I can't complain too much about this bitbet blunder, the "extra winnings" I got from the bet was higher than my proportion of the loss as a bitbet shareholder (unless this tanks the share price too)
1420061;1456933710;PeterL;I mean, uh, hypothetically, if I was one of the bettors ... uh.. nevermind
1420062;1456933721;mircea_popescu;lol what a narrow outlook!
1420063;1456933752;PeterL;unless this exposes some flaw in the bitcoin system, and the btc price crashes, and then we are all fucked
1420064;1456933774;mircea_popescu;but it already did expose such a flaw.
1420065;1456933809;PeterL;I am not thoroughly convinced
1420066;1456933812;mircea_popescu;miners can attack any user, with an unsolvable "either doublepay or never pay" dilemma.
1420067;1456933863;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lemme guess, you have the thermonuke ready and loaded ?
1420068;1456933871;PeterL;you just need your own miner to doublespend the inputs to cancel the first txn
1420069;1456933917;kakobrekla;or move the inputs of the first tx beforehand and invalidate the doublespend possibility
1420070;1456933921;PeterL;weren't you already talking about setting up your own pool?
1420071;1456933929;kakobrekla;or should i say rather 'doublepay'
1420072;1456934062;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.05510566 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b113
1420073;1456934067;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i do not believe in singlehandedness.
1420074;1456934080;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla you can not move inputs BY YOURSELF
1420075;1456934084;mircea_popescu;why's this so hard to grok, somehow ?
1420076;1456934099;mircea_popescu;what do you do, make ANOTHER tx to go in the An delayed-forever pile ?
1420077;1456934114;mircea_popescu;and to fix this then your advice is to what, make An+1 ? because then surely ? for how long ?
1420078;1456934115;PeterL;or run your own miner
1420079;1456934116;kakobrekla;so you are saying you are unable to make any further txes on bitcoin network at all?
1420080;1456934132;mircea_popescu;i am saying that i spent OVER A WEEK making transactions from those inputs.
1420081;1456934190;kakobrekla;and for the next tx will it again take a week and not be done again ?
1420082;1456934192;mircea_popescu;and, ironically, the substantial proof that there was nothing wrong with any of them PER SE, was that a tx that, as per the protocol, should not even have been relayable made it into a fucking block
1420083;1456934215;mircea_popescu;within "minutes", where "minutes" just neatly fits in the cartel head-of-best-chain report delay.
1420084;1456934240;kakobrekla;0 fee txes are quite relayable, tried not a week ago.
1420085;1456934243;PeterL;how do you know they are delaying?
1420086;1456934266;mircea_popescu;...
1420087;1456934289;asciilifeform;did i mention that ~same thing happened to my humble 5btc ?
1420088;1456934292;asciilifeform;i think i did.
1420089;1456934309;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419634 << were you here for that PeterL ?
1420090;1456934309;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 23:32:18; mircea_popescu: i personally think the only reason it's not mined yet is that there hasn't been a block.
1420091;1456934614;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform was it sourced from bitbet payouts ? i recall pete_dushenski saying the same happened to him, originally blamed it on multibit.
1420092;1456934627;asciilifeform;quite possibly it was. or at least in part.
1420093;1456934648;asciilifeform;and the remainder was sourced, i think, from something mircea_popescutronic, as almost all of my coin in fact is.
1420094;1456934681;mircea_popescu;heh.
1420095;1456934876;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420073  << maybe describe then, what you'll need. (here, or in pgpgram..)
1420096;1456934876;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 15:54:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not believe in singlehandedness.
1420097;1456934903;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00056345 = 11.3253 BTC [-]
1420098;1456934991;PeterL;I still dun see why you jump to the conclusion of miner holding blocks, maybe they rebroadcast the transaction as they moved it from "0fee waiting line" to "now including these txen" when they had held it long enough for the wait time to increase its priority?
1420099;1456935097;PeterL;if it had been two days instead of two hours after the other transaction, would you still have concluded miner collusion?
1420100;1456935163;PeterL;mircea_popescu ^
1420101;1456935272;mircea_popescu;PeterL the operative part there is, txn was "broadcast" and then "included in a block" within 20-odd minutes.
1420102;1456935298;PeterL;maybe it was the miner who had been holding it who broadcast it?
1420103;1456935301;mircea_popescu;that happens to be, involuntarily i guess, and impredictably for the attackingside, i guess, a passive timing of their capabilities.
1420104;1456935309;mircea_popescu;PeterL that's the idea.
1420105;1456935372;PeterL;which is why none of the other txn that followed it were included, they were invalidated by the first txn which was in the miners' mempool
1420106;1456935393;mircea_popescu;except they didn't report it ?
1420107;1456935402;PeterL;who didn't report it?
1420108;1456935406;mircea_popescu;well, ~nobody.
1420109;1456935415;PeterL;you asked the miners specifically?
1420110;1456935439;mircea_popescu;i didn'taskl anything of anyone. i listen to a large cross-section of the bitcoin relay network.
1420111;1456935445;mircea_popescu;nodes advertise the txn they know about.
1420112;1456935479;PeterL;maybe a mine who likes to listen instead of talk held onto the first transaction?
1420113;1456935499;mircea_popescu;for a week or so, in preference of higher fee replacements ? sure. why ?
1420114;1456935511;mircea_popescu;it is breaking the protocol inasmuch as a protocol exists.
1420115;1456935532;mircea_popescu;it's certainly not a behaviour supported or even possible by any codebase so far published, if you think code=protocol instead.
1420116;1456935545;PeterL;why not hold onto a 0fee txn until later?
1420117;1456935575;mircea_popescu;because it's part of a set of mutually incompatible txn, and some of the others have better fees, for instance. if you're am iner, you want the higher fee.
1420118;1456935625;PeterL;but is the protocol to keep older txn or newer, does fee size matter?
1420119;1456935640;mircea_popescu;the protocol is that 0 fee txn can't even be relayed.
1420120;1456935677;PeterL;what if it is just somebody trying to scam by getting a party to accept a 0conf txn, and then double spending it?
1420121;1456935696;kakobrekla; 0 fee txn can't even be relayed. < this is not true
1420122;1456935698;mircea_popescu;write down what a party would need in order to do this.
1420123;1456935712;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla hey, "spam protection", i didn't write it.
1420124;1456935734;kakobrekla;they relay but not as well.
1420125;1456935737;mircea_popescu;but yes, because "the protocol" is not even written down, endless arguments of this nature can be had. by and large...
1420126;1456935797;PeterL;ok, I buy some egold from bob, send him 1 btc. He sees the 0conf txn, transferes the egold to me, then I doublespend the inputs with a higher fee, sucks to be him
1420127;1456935803;kakobrekla;there are many different version of nodes and implementations abiding by different rules on bitcoin network.
1420128;1456935820;mircea_popescu;PeterL this is miserable "writing down". what are you, a consumer ? HOW do you doublespend.
1420129;1456935826;kakobrekla;and this makes it, to an extent, unpredictable.
1420130;1456935839;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla or so we thought. but it turns out that no, there's exactly one, covered in a cloud of buzzing shit.
1420131;1456935850;PeterL;and the miners in your scheme see the higher fee and put the second txn in a block
1420132;1456935869;kakobrekla;there isnt one. trb behaves differently than prb if nothing else.
1420133;1456935871;mircea_popescu;PeterL how is this related to what happened ?
1420134;1456935884;kakobrekla;even different trb build do different stuff.
1420135;1456935886;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla and guess what - trb gets blackholed now and again. prb never mattered.
1420136;1456935896;kakobrekla;same goes for prb.
1420137;1456935897;PeterL;you seem to think you can just send a new txn with a higher fee and expect it to get processed faster
1420138;1456935898;mircea_popescu;the miners are running their own shit, and it's centralized.
1420139;1456935916;mircea_popescu;PeterL this is not what was said! didja read the qntra piece ?
1420140;1456935916;kakobrekla;it matter for propagation for instance.
1420141;1456935932;PeterL;while I am saying the iners are just going to keep the older txn, regardless of fee
1420142;1456935933;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420119 << this is untrue. >> http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0526
1420143;1456935933;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 16:20:40; mircea_popescu: the protocol is that 0 fee txn can't even be relayed.
1420144;1456935935;assbot;Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1VQCwsA )
1420145;1456935952;kakobrekla;i said the same.
1420146;1456935991;punkman;so one thing that hasn't been mentioned, does trb even replace transactions when new one comes in with higher fee?
1420147;1456935991;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform looky, this isn't how this sort of discussion works, by giving counterexample.
1420148;1456936010;mircea_popescu;punkman iirc no, but the plan was to get the pool sorted by per/kb tx fee
1420149;1456936018;mircea_popescu;ring buffer and all that.
1420150;1456936057;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: granted, i have nfi what the heathens run.
1420151;1456936079;mircea_popescu;more importantly, "the protocol is X" "no because implementation y" "implementation Y is noncompliant" "no" "because ?" "uhhh"
1420152;1456936117;PeterL;Where is the protocol documented?
1420153;1456936130;kakobrekla;hm qntra just fucked up my comment. apparently you cant use < and > in comments huh
1420154;1456936132;mircea_popescu;by and large, very broadly speaking, and insasmuch as a "bitcoin protocol" even exists at all - it says that 0 fee txn aren't relayed or included. now, how this is implemented in practice... w/e.
1420155;1456936132;asciilifeform;PeterL: nowhere.
1420156;1456936135;punkman;which implementations do you think would accept the subsequent higher-fee transactions (putting aside the fact that you couldn't see the first 0fee tx in anyone's mempool)?
1420157;1456936151;mircea_popescu;PeterL ask vessenes and the merry friends/captains of industry/power rangers/etc
1420158;1456936161;kakobrekla;who here has control over approving the comments ?
1420159;1456936186;mircea_popescu;punkman you mean which implementations would accept a tx with a fee ? seeing how they wouldn't see the other one ? or what ?
1420160;1456936190;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla lol
1420161;1456936194;mircea_popescu;prolly BingoBoingo
1420162;1456936364;punkman;mircea_popescu: which implementations would accept a replacement tx with a fee, assuming they still have the 0fee tx in mempool
1420163;1456936437;kakobrekla;thats a good q
1420164;1456936455;mircea_popescu;from experience, the stuff the chinese miners run would, at least most of the time. historically i thought this is just random variance between divergent implementations, but now i think it's a single unit behaviour modulated somehow. also, this is essentially what "Replace by fee" is all about, iirc.
1420165;1456936497;punkman;relevant: "Bitcoin Core will only allow replacement of transactions which have any of their inputs’ nSequence number set to less than 0xffffffff - 1." (in 0.12 release)
1420166;1456936504;mircea_popescu;you have to understand that the direct correlate of "bitcoin protocol is nowhere" is that i'm stuck sitting here wasting tons of resources and various people's time doing an endless array of stupid or plain weird shit to see what happens to try and understand what's what.
1420167;1456936537;mircea_popescu;the advantage being, of course, that i have a whole lot of canaries in all sorts of apparently unexpected places. the drawbacks... heh, let's not talk about that, i'll just get angry.
1420168;1456936563;mircea_popescu;punkman the notion that prb is relevant to this discussion is shocking/ridiculous, depending on your mood.
1420169;1456936595;kakobrekla;prb is what relayed your txes to the miner gates.
1420170;1456936597;asciilifeform;a good chunk of the 'protocol' as i pictured it, turned out to be... promise.
1420171;1456936609;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla not even. prb is more or less the random noise.
1420172;1456936614;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform sadly.
1420173;1456936632;kakobrekla;who else is then connected to the miners? do tell?
1420174;1456936652;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: dark matter.
1420175;1456936671;kakobrekla;i do not accept that answer.
1420176;1456936674;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla "that is not a bridge" "please build me a bridge over here so i can see this" "orly"
1420177;1456936685;mircea_popescu;looky, not like you have to accept or not accept anything.
1420178;1456936710;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: dark matter is not 'mystery meat.' is is a thing that is definitely present but gives only indirect shadow of being there.
1420179;1456936716;mircea_popescu;things are what they are, you make of them what you will.
1420180;1456936919;kakobrekla;hence i dont agree with your interpretation of events (that bbet/you is targeted here - in which case its game over)
1420181;1456936932;PeterL;I guess you cold test whether you are directly connected to miners or bridged by prb nodes: send a txn which prb does not like, see if it gets included in a block
1420182;1456936950;mircea_popescu;well, you have a large pile of stuff to explain away then. i'd be curious to read the alt theory kakobrekla
1420183;1456936960;PeterL;or did we do that and that is why we had to add the high/low s thing?
1420184;1456936962;mircea_popescu;PeterL the general idea is there.
1420185;1456936967;BingoBoingo;!up Luke-Jr May get an ack if "brick chicom miners" goes with it? Been hanging out with stroke victims recently and my brian is having sympathy deficits so I gotta defer to the peerage.
1420186;1456936981;mircea_popescu;a lot of fingerprinting you can do by just listening. it's a large topic, this.
1420187;1456936994;kakobrekla;im afraid you wont go for that because you dismiss things with "notion that $item is relevant to this discussion is shocking/ridiculous"
1420188;1456937012;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla but it's not about me, per se, it's about the thing, such as it is.
1420189;1456937015;kakobrekla;or " this isn't how this sort of discussion works, by giving counterexample."
1420190;1456937026;mircea_popescu;but there's logic behind that!
1420191;1456937041;mircea_popescu;what, you think asciilifeform accepted it as stated because he's afraid of me or something ?
1420192;1456937059;punkman;has anyone else observed cases of tx being in mempool but not advertised to peers?
1420193;1456937061;kakobrekla;thats up to him to answer.
1420194;1456937079;mircea_popescu;that's actually a good thing to document punkman
1420195;1456937084;asciilifeform;i accepted because i saw it alive right here.
1420196;1456937094;asciilifeform;and have been picking up radar echoes of it for ~year.
1420197;1456937116;kakobrekla;arguably i have more actual experience with sending txes than alf.
1420198;1456937127;punkman;asciilifeform: did you manage to bet 5btc twice when your tx got stuck?
1420199;1456937127;BingoBoingo;<kakobrekla> who here has control over approving the comments ? Approved nao
1420200;1456937133;asciilifeform;and, for that matter, i predicted that miners would turn, long ago.
1420201;1456937145;mircea_popescu;more generally, you can't bring arguments as to what the standard is on the basis of "look what this implementation does". the illustrative case of this being the four men in a dark room with an elephant.
1420202;1456937145;kakobrekla;BingoBoingo one should be removed and one approved, hopefully you noticed that
1420203;1456937149;asciilifeform;punkman: nope, but the bullet whistled by
1420204;1456937173;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla> arguably i have more actual experience with sending txes than alf. << well, that was a discussion of mempools i thought, so i'm not sure this reduction is relevant.
1420205;1456937202;kakobrekla;i have seend weird shit happen with mempools with my own very eyes.
1420206;1456937207;Luke-Jr;BingoBoingo: "brick chicom miners" ?
1420207;1456937213;mircea_popescu;so have i. so has everyone!
1420208;1456937223;mircea_popescu;the problem is that "weird shit" just coallesced into everyone's worst nightmare.
1420209;1456937226;mircea_popescu;!down Luke-Jr
1420210;1456937228;mircea_popescu;get lost.
1420211;1456937256;kakobrekla;i dont see the events that took place as randomly impossible
1420212;1456937280;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: a whole fuckload of 'random' in one direction.
1420213;1456937282;mircea_popescu;nothing is randomly impossible. i have no argument there.
1420214;1456937289;asciilifeform;i can fall through the floor.
1420215;1456937291;asciilifeform;randomly.
1420216;1456937295;asciilifeform;physics - allows it.
1420217;1456937298;mircea_popescu;this actually can happen, ftr.
1420218;1456937305;asciilifeform;aha. tunneling.
1420219;1456937306;mircea_popescu;enough space if the particles arrange just right
1420220;1456937312;asciilifeform;more than enough.
1420221;1456937318;kakobrekla;the odds of that are less than the odds of what we observed. and i think the odds of ko
1420222;1456937327;kakobrekla;spiracy are also less than randomness.
1420223;1456937333;kakobrekla;konspiracy*
1420224;1456937339;mircea_popescu;well, incredibly enough, nobody has actually calculated the fucking odds, to support this view.
1420225;1456937373;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is not a thing you can actually do
1420226;1456937380;asciilifeform;none of the necessary priors are known.
1420227;1456937381;mircea_popescu;so then on what does he base himself ?
1420228;1456937386;asciilifeform;wishes?
1420229;1456937393;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i'm just asking.
1420230;1456937395;asciilifeform;kakobrekla this is not even the first botched payout on bb!
1420231;1456937408;mircea_popescu;i suppose you know, gut feeling. can go either way. which is why i said, doesn't have to accept anything.
1420232;1456937420;asciilifeform;how many bullets do you need to catch before you stop saying 'meteorite' and shoot back.
1420233;1456937427;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the first set was ~arguably~ due to the malleator magically failing on select txn
1420234;1456937441;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, which is why i did not ring the alarm.
1420235;1456937443;mircea_popescu;which at the time i did buy as a sufficient explanation.
1420236;1456937443;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> historically i thought this is just random variance between divergent implementations, but now i think it's a single unit behaviour modulated somehow << Could be turdacious relay network or it's replacement's evil
1420237;1456937465;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16315 @ 0.00056605 = 9.2351 BTC [+]
1420238;1456937474;BingoBoingo;<kakobrekla> BingoBoingo one should be removed and one approved, hopefully you noticed that << But you submitted two!
1420239;1456937522;kakobrekla;one thing that goes through my mind is that trb/mps infrastructure is on the border of 'consensus' behavior of most nodes. this makes it more susceptible to odd/unwanted shit happening.
1420240;1456937553;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: we - or at least i - have nfi what 'most nodes' are or do. the sybils are not necessarily relevant.
1420241;1456937603;kakobrekla;most nodes are idiots that run prb as built by core team
1420242;1456937653;mircea_popescu;these "most nodes" don't even fucking figure in the node count.
1420243;1456937658;mircea_popescu;what, 40% uptime ? ok ?
1420244;1456937663;kakobrekla;BingoBoingo one however does not validat :p
1420245;1456937667;mircea_popescu;by this measure most datacenters are in kenya.
1420246;1456937704;kakobrekla;the 40% uptime nodes bring your tx to the miners, news at 11 or when are those.
1420247;1456937728;mircea_popescu;so i thought. i dun think so.
1420248;1456937770;kakobrekla;BingoBoingo feel free to remove the one that is br0ken and does not validate as far as im concerned.
1420249;1456937808;BingoBoingo;Ok, will remove bad one once I make a pot of coffee and identify it
1420250;1456937808;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla> one thing that goes through my mind is that trb/mps  << this is true, but let me clarify that An set of txn were broadcast through a set of > 1k distinct peers. most of which i don't regard as peers in any sense, but nevertheless they did get to hear about them from my own nodes.
1420251;1456937821;mircea_popescu;which aren't, at the present time, trb-tethered. it's a goal, but into the future.
1420252;1456937843;asciilifeform;ahahahahaha so we have mircea_popescu's mpb mysterymeat in the mix.
1420253;1456937853;asciilifeform;which we (other than mircea_popescu) have nfi what it does.
1420254;1456937856;asciilifeform;in whatever cases.
1420255;1456937865;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1420256;1456937885;asciilifeform;i'
1420257;1456937902;mircea_popescu;hey, it's a protocol, right ?
1420258;1456937903;asciilifeform;d bet money that there is some peculiar mpbism that is being exploited here.
1420259;1456937924;mircea_popescu;i don't run homogenous stack tho.
1420260;1456937927;mircea_popescu;for this fucking reason.
1420261;1456937929;asciilifeform;especially then.
1420262;1456937938;mircea_popescu;what can i say.
1420263;1456937946;asciilifeform;heterogeneity in software is an illusion in every case.
1420264;1456937975;mircea_popescu;if only. protocols would be so much easier to both design and implement, if this were true.
1420265;1456937982;asciilifeform;and certainly there is nothing truly heterogeneous about 11 old versions of satoshi's crud.
1420266;1456938018;asciilifeform;running on 4 generations of x86.
1420267;1456938044;mircea_popescu;sure, in a general sense.
1420268;1456938060;asciilifeform;~usefully defensive~ heterogeneity is an illusion.
1420269;1456938070;mircea_popescu;that wasn't contemplated.
1420270;1456938076;mircea_popescu;informative heterogenity, however, is not.
1420271;1456938092;mircea_popescu;one of the many protocol items that turned to be promises was - i shouldn't NEED any defense.
1420272;1456938107;asciilifeform;aha.
1420273;1456938136;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7885 @ 0.0005673 = 4.4732 BTC [+] {2} 
1420274;1456938197;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00056743 = 3.972 BTC [+]
1420275;1456938210;mircea_popescu;other than the obvious "they're getting sloppy" there is, of course, the alternative explanation that the current crop of miners roughly speaking stopped giving a shit.
1420276;1456938228;mircea_popescu;the reward's halving, they regard their capital investment as ~worthless, and we have crossed bitcoin event horizon.
1420277;1456938233;asciilifeform;i distinctly recall that trb sailed through the july incident while mpb did not.
1420278;1456938238;asciilifeform;why was this ?
1420279;1456938260;mircea_popescu;i distinctly recal trb nearly sunk in the other incident, while mpb provided the magic constants. why was that ?
1420280;1456938265;mircea_popescu;why the fuck is anything. because software sucks ?
1420281;1456938357;asciilifeform;prolly.
1420282;1456938363;kakobrekla;anyway paying out the bet with a different set of inputs after you have made a broadcast of the signed tx from the first inputs even to a single node, without moving those inputs elsewhere first, is a noobish mistake. why you were unable to do that is a different matter.
1420283;1456938379;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: trb didn't even get off the runway until magic constants, recall.
1420284;1456938381;mircea_popescu;how is it a mistake ?
1420285;1456938399;mircea_popescu;you think i'd rather have 18 btc than know all this ? i wouldn't.
1420286;1456938451;kakobrekla;becase i assume you know once you put out a signed statement of spending some outputs those can actually be spent at a later time if they are still there.
1420287;1456938466;mircea_popescu;part and parcel of how this all works.
1420288;1456938474;kakobrekla;or should i say inputs. i always get confused with the two.
1420289;1456938531;kakobrekla;its like gpg signing "i give you half of pile x" the reciever says "didnt get the message at all" and then you go ok nvm "i give you half of pile y" now.
1420290;1456938544;mircea_popescu;this part isn't controversial.
1420291;1456938585;kakobrekla;you dont have to accept it is.
1420292;1456938664;mircea_popescu;wait, what ?!
1420293;1456938769;kakobrekla;actually, to put it in another way, im surprised you are surprised over the events that happened given your set actions.
1420294;1456938792;kakobrekla;set of*
1420295;1456938821;mircea_popescu;whether i am surprised or not is not included in this discussion. i don't recall saying i was surprised, nor does over-the-lan telepathy historically work. moreover, my own state is deeply irrelevant : the problem is there, and it's grinning at you.
1420296;1456938896;PeterL;I don't see a problem, you signed two transactions and they both were mined, where is the problem?
1420297;1456938915;BingoBoingo;The timing
1420298;1456938916;mircea_popescu;mkay then.
1420299;1456938929;kakobrekla;if you arent/werent surprised means you sort of expected it?
1420300;1456938950;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla yes, by the time the 4th txn trying to pay out bitbet vanished without a trace, i was sort-of expecting it.
1420301;1456938992;kakobrekla;why go then sign another tx with fresh inputs to seal the deal ??
1420302;1456938995;mircea_popescu;or at any rate something-like-it. of the vast array of various nonsense readily available in ample stores on this networked currency of the future.
1420303;1456939019;mircea_popescu;so that the problem can be fully exposed, in detailed, solid fact, so as to be handwaved by people.
1420304;1456939024;mircea_popescu;i'm a masochist like that.
1420305;1456939049;PeterL;but what is the problem? seems the networked worked as advertised?
1420306;1456939078;asciilifeform;PeterL: 'when it feels like it'
1420307;1456939082;mircea_popescu;PeterL looky, i'm not going to carry on this conversation. i get it, you wish to be dense and stonewall. fine, but stop derping at me about it.
1420308;1456939083;asciilifeform;in that sense - yes.
1420309;1456939155;asciilifeform;i for one am disappointed, i expected there would be a lively thread re: the exact how-tos of applying boot to some well-deserved faces in the middle kingdom and elsewhere.
1420310;1456939155;PeterL;tx1 was sent, included in a block at t1, tx2 was sent, included in a block at t2, the fact t1 and t2 are close together is just a coincidence, not a problem
1420311;1456939166;mircea_popescu;dude...
1420312;1456939168;asciilifeform;*well-deserving
1420313;1456939207;mircea_popescu;did you get the part where tx2 is really tx1 and was sent 8 days prior to what you insanely call tx1 ?
1420314;1456939284;PeterL;no, tx2 is not tx 1 because they have different inputs
1420315;1456939313;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i've been thinking about it, but i don't think this is actually resolvable. as it happens - the "magically working network - we don't know how it works" thing is much more appealing to the average joe than you know, "this is my node. i will defend it with my life". what life, are you kidding, got sitcoms to watch and shit.
1420316;1456939344;PeterL;t1 is after t2 makes sense since tx1 had 0 fee, while tx2 had a fee and was therefore included faster
1420317;1456939354;mircea_popescu;so... no. you can't solve the problem of fiat through technological means, be they bitcoin or anything else. the same people that abandoned the fiat to "mysterious entity" will just as readily abandon bitcoin, and their own asshole.
1420318;1456939392;PeterL;so the lesson here is "don't send 0 fee txen if you are not patient enough to wait a few weeks"
1420319;1456939415;mircea_popescu;in other news, https://bitbet.us/ << bitbet payouts suspended as seen there.
1420320;1456939416;assbot;BitBet ... ( http://bit.ly/1W34G2i )
1420321;1456939416;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you cannot solve the problem of hygiene with technological means, no.
1420322;1456939425;asciilifeform;inventing the toilet is not enough, you have to go to it
1420323;1456939430;asciilifeform;in pants - always easier.
1420324;1456939434;mircea_popescu;so it is.
1420325;1456939474;asciilifeform;it does not follow that toilet was a waste of time.
1420326;1456939511;mircea_popescu;i am not in the slightest proposing this. i am saying however that the toilet may be part of the solution, but can't be THE solution.
1420327;1456939522;asciilifeform;no shit!
1420328;1456939570;mircea_popescu;hey, i'm in the business of fundamentals, apparently.
1420329;1456939607;asciilifeform;hey it beats being in the business i'm in (swimming in tank of shit with shit-eating pirannhas)
1420330;1456939700;asciilifeform;so far the only solutions i can picture divide into 2 classes,
1420331;1456939714;asciilifeform;a) tmsr takes up some form of mining
1420332;1456939716;asciilifeform;or
1420333;1456939724;asciilifeform;b) tmsr shows the vermin their place
1420334;1456939744;asciilifeform;but if mircea_popescu coughts up a (c), i'll enjoy reading.
1420335;1456939805;PeterL;what does it mean by b? what does this entail?
1420336;1456939846;kakobrekla;as i mentioned before, if you really believe that miners are conspiring against bitbet (via known outputs and amounts) then its game over for bb.
1420337;1456939858;kakobrekla;however my tin foil seems to be thick enough, for now.
1420338;1456939885;BingoBoingo;kakobrekla: Could try roofing tin?
1420339;1456939917;asciilifeform;PeterL: see thread re: keccak.
1420340;1456939918;kakobrekla;BingoBoingo regular tin foil works for now where im sitting.
1420341;1456939949;BingoBoingo;kakobrekla: Ok, are you sure you used the clip to connect it to ground though?
1420342;1456939966;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00056345 = 16.7345 BTC [-]
1420343;1456939986;kakobrekla;yes, goes right to the water pipe under bathroom sink.
1420344;1456940017;BingoBoingo;very good
1420345;1456940033;kakobrekla;aha
1420346;1456940087;BingoBoingo;Would be exemplary good if saltwater pipe
1420347;1456940437;jurov;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420300 << so you used not your own money for such experiments. why am i not surprised?
1420348;1456940437;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 17:15:50; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yes, by the time the 4th txn trying to pay out bitbet vanished without a trace, i was sort-of expecting it.
1420349;1456940475;jurov;actually, i am surprised that nobody of bitbet shareholders was loud about this
1420350;1456940508;asciilifeform;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47629 << interesting
1420351;1456940510;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/24BzVIP )
1420352;1456940510;mircea_popescu;lmao. why the fuck would you, or anyone else, expect me to spend my own money to resolve bitbet's problems ? what is this company, a charity conduit ?
1420353;1456940512;jurov;people are sheep everywhere, i guess.
1420354;1456940515;PeterL;jurov what do you think we have been complaining about?
1420355;1456940532;mircea_popescu;this is what it does for its living : tries to extract value out of the greatly economically valuable bitcoin thing.
1420356;1456940538;mircea_popescu;so far - it goes about as well as you'd expect.
1420357;1456940576;jurov;when had transaction problem with coinbr withdrawal, i did not risk
1420358;1456940587;jurov;and instead moved thhe change with big fee
1420359;1456940599;jurov;and it wen mined eventually
1420360;1456940600;mircea_popescu;this is fine ?
1420361;1456940630;jurov;yes, because as opposed to mircea_popescu i did read the code closely and it does maintain chains of unconfirmed transactions
1420362;1456940640;jurov;so, this is fine
1420363;1456940668;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform he asked about it, i saw no problem republishing.
1420364;1456940712;mircea_popescu;i dunno what code you read or what you did when, but good for you!
1420365;1456940743;jurov;all the code there is, does it
1420366;1456940756;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd be curious re: what the 'technical solution' is.
1420367;1456940778;mircea_popescu;makes two of us.
1420368;1456940794;kakobrekla;needles to say i dont agree with mps actions or interpretation of the results, even if you take out the qntra comment.
1420369;1456940924;mircea_popescu;jurov looky, this thing whereby in reaction to a "this guy is accused of having killed that guy and here's the smoking gun" you come up with a "hey, i fired a gun once, and the smoke went so and so" is a waste of time. you wish to construct an alternate theory, please, by all means, i would wish to hear it. but you must take ALL the points, and show that your path crossing them is cheaper than the one detailed on qntra
1420370;1456940924;mircea_popescu;. you wish to contradict numeric results, fine, but show your own calculations in doing so.
1420371;1456940933;mircea_popescu;i can appreciate gut feel, but it's no sort of argument as to anything.
1420372;1456940992;mircea_popescu;other than that, obviously whenever something blows up everyone wishes to not have to be in the way. sure.
1420373;1456940997;jurov;no, you constructed and pushed forward your notion of  "bitcoin protocol" wich led to stupid actions with a money that was not even yours
1420374;1456941011;kakobrekla;aha ^^
1420375;1456941019;jurov;that someone used the stupidity against you, no wonder
1420376;1456941039;*;mircea_popescu shrugs
1420377;1456941041;asciilifeform;what, theoretically, would it take, to get a guaranteed block weekly ?
1420378;1456941046;asciilifeform;i could've sworn we had this thread
1420379;1456941057;mircea_popescu;and you're a poopynose!! ha-HA!!! calling names is how you solve problems you don't wish to consider! YAY KINDERGARTEN
1420380;1456941066;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you can't. because half hour delayed.
1420381;1456941072;mircea_popescu;they'll reorg the shit out of you.
1420382;1456941076;asciilifeform;hm.
1420383;1456941091;asciilifeform;so it's nukefest time, then.
1420384;1456941105;mircea_popescu;consider it a sort of coke machine for miner rigs. inasmuch as you do exactly what they'd have done, you can keep it. else - reorg.
1420385;1456941109;mircea_popescu;soon enough you'll learn
1420386;1456941113;mircea_popescu;which is how this ended up here in the first place.
1420387;1456941149;mircea_popescu;well no, it's "lalala i can't hear you" time.
1420388;1456941189;jurov;no it's "lalalala all i did was very right and proper, it's YOU who have to come up with theory"
1420389;1456941219;mircea_popescu;that's my priviledge. i'm the one actually doing things, there.
1420390;1456941219;asciilifeform;possibly time to show'em 'кузькина мать' i mean.
1420391;1456941231;asciilifeform;(is there even an engl. phrase for this?)
1420392;1456941651;asciilifeform;tbh i'm a little surprised that mircea_popescu was pinching pennies on tx fees
1420393;1456941655;asciilifeform;for whatever reason
1420394;1456941675;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420166
1420395;1456941675;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 16:35:04; mircea_popescu: you have to understand that the direct correlate of "bitcoin protocol is nowhere" is that i'm stuck sitting here wasting tons of resources and various people's time doing an endless array of stupid or plain weird shit to see what happens to try and understand what's what.
1420396;1456941847;asciilifeform;so it was a reactor test?
1420397;1456941988;mircea_popescu;you know how it sometimes happens that a platoon gets sent on a random patrol, ends up surprising a moving contingent of enemy, a flurry of radioing and reinforcing and whatnot happens and suddenly the front is in a new place ?
1420398;1456942030;asciilifeform;aha!
1420399;1456942064;mircea_popescu;the platoon shareholders usually get butchered.
1420400;1456942086;jurov;so, if in course if this recon you manage to completely obliterate bitbet's fund, you'll invoke your privilege and tell everyone to stfu??
1420401;1456942109;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: re: reactor test << like how they tested the reactor in Chernobyl with a "stress test"
1420402;1456942151;jurov;*during course of this recon
1420403;1456942162;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00056344 = 11.0998 BTC [-] {2} 
1420404;1456942229;asciilifeform;jurov: what, in place of recon by fire, would you do in his place ?
1420405;1456942264;jurov;let me at least know im funding the war?
1420406;1456942329;jurov;best to put straight into the contract: "This venture's funds may be used to enforce bitcoin protocol"
1420407;1456942427;BingoBoingo;<jurov> let me at least know im funding the war? << Seems reasonable though BitBet particularly gets for the lesser versions of this shennanigans in the past. Perhaps something to do with its auditability.
1420408;1456942461;punkman;so bitbet has to resolve 1800 btc of bets to cover the damage?
1420409;1456942516;thestringpuller;whoa...
1420410;1456942536;jurov;mircea surely has shown them!!!
1420411;1456942542;asciilifeform;no wai
1420412;1456942712;BingoBoingo;<punkman> so bitbet has to resolve 1800 btc of bets to cover the damage? << MP would only have to bet a few hundred "No" on Trump to likely get money coming out of the woodwork to match it.
1420413;1456942782;mircea_popescu;or whatever, give away a grand to the general public so that buffet can pretend like there are no berkshire shorts. or other stuff.
1420414;1456942819;BingoBoingo;Who knows?
1420415;1456942825;*;thestringpuller will be highly entertained by a trump presidency
1420416;1456942826;mircea_popescu;jurov companies fold all the time. this is a thing. if in the course of their business they fail to make money, they'll lose exactly as much money as they lost.
1420417;1456942855;mircea_popescu;jurov> let me at least know im funding the war? << i'm sorry, you thought bitcoin WORKED ?
1420418;1456942869;mircea_popescu;holy shit, the warnings i haven't been putting out ;/
1420419;1456942888;jurov;i'm living off it for some years, that's "works" for me.
1420420;1456942913;mircea_popescu;i'm glad to hear. you think that's germane ?
1420421;1456942941;asciilifeform;jurov would be astonished to learn what i live from.
1420422;1456942947;asciilifeform;and how it 'works'.
1420423;1456942957;mircea_popescu;the problem with broken things is exactly that - they "work" for you until they don't. at which point...
1420424;1456942964;jurov;well, you keep asking people to wake you up when it stops working
1420425;1456942965;asciilifeform;aha.
1420426;1456942973;jurov;so far i don't remember it happen
1420427;1456942997;jurov;someday everything stops working, so what.
1420428;1456943023;asciilifeform;'... and with strange eons, even death may die' (tm) (r)
1420429;1456943069;asciilifeform;at any rate, i've been repeating, largely to deaf ears, since i showed up here,
1420430;1456943081;asciilifeform;that it 'works' in the sense where a house of cards that nobody's pushed, stands up.
1420431;1456943140;asciilifeform;house of cards is not the only possible kind of house.
1420432;1456943149;asciilifeform;it is possible to build a concrete bunker, or even castle.
1420433;1456943156;asciilifeform;but it has to be ~done~.
1420434;1456943177;jurov;the pray tell mr. datskovskiy, why aren't s.nsa funds used to poke this house of cards?
1420435;1456943195;jurov;it's business is much closer to this goal than bitbet
1420436;1456943203;asciilifeform;jurov: by all rights they ought to be.
1420437;1456943221;asciilifeform;jurov: and to the extent i blow my very little free time on trbism, they are.
1420438;1456943224;*;BingoBoingo likes where this is going. S.NSA acquisition of BitBet to test miner turderations.
1420439;1456943275;BingoBoingo;because for this purpose the valuable part of BitBet is the public addresses
1420440;1456943287;asciilifeform;l0l what has BingoBoingo been smoking.
1420441;1456943326;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I've been hanging out at the hospital with Grandpa while he rehabs from his stroke. I think I might have a touch of sympathy cognitive impairment.
1420442;1456943341;asciilifeform;ah
1420443;1456943371;asciilifeform;jurov: considering that the only thing i am apparently good at is falling on grenades, i would happily sit on this one for you if i knew how.
1420444;1456943406;BingoBoingo;There's no cure for being 91, but it is amazing the work physical and occupational therapists can do
1420445;1456943406;assbot;AMAZING COMPANY!
1420446;1456943427;mircea_popescu;jurov> it's business is much closer to this goal than bitbet << the argument, while in itself respectable, very much sadly not how things work. the jew on a ship, should the ship catch fire, will be a fireman whether he signed up for voyage as jew or as fireman.
1420447;1456943464;mircea_popescu;but i'm first in line to say i'd much prefer a bitcoin protocol that was actually specified, and actually worked.
1420448;1456943525;mircea_popescu;well, maybe not first in line, but anyway. somewhere in that line.
1420449;1456943609;mircea_popescu;and now, if teh esteemed peerage may excuse me for a bit, i really gotta eat and make this smg report. so bbs.
1420450;1456943763;jurov;*shrug* i know you want some insights as to the actual war, but whatever ricocheted shots came my way (ddos, tx problems), i solved myself in anti-#b-a ways without learning anything about the enemy
1420451;1456943897;jurov;for example the ddos was solved leveraging aws infrastructure. but if the ddosers had half a brain, they'd have drowned me in aws bills
1420452;1456943916;jurov;nope, so far largest attack was maybe $2
1420453;1456943974;jurov;so i have my reservations about these scenarios you and alf present here
1420454;1456943980;BingoBoingo;jurov: If it makes you feel any better as an embedded reporter in this conflict I sometimes wonder if, like those reporters Bush sent into Iraq and coming away with a polished view because I am not yet made to sleep in the hills with nagant and donkey.
1420455;1456944006;punkman;I don't think "working" protocol means being able to assume signed and broadcasted tx has been forgotten and won't come back to bite you in the ass. What's in who's mempool is unknowable.
1420456;1456944173;PeterL;even if it was removed from all mempools, would it be wrong for somebody to rebroadcast the txn, it was signed after all
1420457;1456944296;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420455 < correct. bitcoin, as is, is not a toy and not for idiots. pretty much #b-a mantra.
1420458;1456944296;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 18:40:06; punkman: I don't think "working" protocol means being able to assume signed and broadcasted tx has been forgotten and won't come back to bite you in the ass. What's in who's mempool is unknowable.
1420459;1456944404;PeterL;are you saying mircea_popescu is an idiot?
1420460;1456944609;PeterL;Is it strange that we have had 10 empty blocks today?
1420461;1456944663;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.0005634 = 13.6343 BTC [-] {2} 
1420462;1456944688;asciilifeform;PeterL: it is entirely unsusprising that we have empty blocks
1420463;1456944694;asciilifeform;in light of mircea_popescu's hypothesis.
1420464;1456944798;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420349 << perhaps my holdings aren't significant enough to have any weight on the issue, but nontheless I as a BitBet shareholder agree with the decision to draw attention to whatever issue at the expense of a few months of dividends. At the very least it can be seen as a marketing expense, BitBet being the catalyst to war against something truly rotten in bitcoin, something th
1420465;1456944798;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 17:41:15; jurov: actually, i am surprised that nobody of bitbet shareholders was loud about this
1420466;1456944863;PeterL;danielpbarron yes, but that would require there to be something rotten to fight against, I think mircea_popescu is just jumping at shadows
1420467;1456944891;deedbot-;[Qntra] Anti Music Piracy Advocate Pirates Music Production Software - http://qntra.net/2016/03/anti-music-piracy-advocate-pirates-music-production-software/
1420468;1456944904;danielpbarron;i think he knows more than I do about this matter, and I trust him when he says something is u
1420469;1456944927;danielpbarron;up*, and who are you to say that he is wrong?
1420470;1456944968;PeterL;I'm just a minor shareholder, my opinion doesn't count for much
1420471;1456945022;danielpbarron;not that these are voting shares anyway, if you don't like it, sell.
1420472;1456945037;punkman;I don't think this experiment is worth, say ~6 months of profits, but that's strictly the BB's board discretion.
1420473;1456945465;punkman;https://twitter.com/c8ters/status/699701086656077825
1420474;1456946034;ben_vulpes;!t m s.bbet
1420475;1456946034;assbot;[MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D:  /  /  ( shares,  BTC), 30D: 0.00007821 / 0.00008412 / 0.000121 (3930 shares, 0.33 BTC)
1420476;1456946064;ben_vulpes;so far none of the bag^H^H^Hshareholders seem to give a shit
1420477;1456946065;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420457 << this is specifically NOT the assumption. bitcoin being a working protocol however DOES mean that you should be able to assume that if a transaction is rejected, or not included, or delayed, or in any way treated or not treated it is solely on the basis of data COMPLETELY contained in that transaction.
1420478;1456946065;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 18:44:56; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420455 < correct. bitcoin, as is, is not a toy and not for idiots. pretty much #b-a mantra.
1420479;1456946087;mircea_popescu;that's tghe problem here. something wasn't good for an entire week that suddenly became good. this selective-bitcoin is in no sense bitcoin,
1420480;1456946094;mircea_popescu;and trivially can be shown to map exactly on paypal-usd.
1420481;1456946100;asciilifeform;and if it even worked like the ocean,
1420482;1456946101;mircea_popescu;which, youj know... also many people make a living on.
1420483;1456946113;asciilifeform;where a ship can sink from matters unrelated to what is on board, but with known chance.
1420484;1456946131;mircea_popescu;same ocean will sink same boat every time and float same boat every time.
1420485;1456946137;mircea_popescu;this is the core of shipwrighting as a science
1420486;1456946143;mircea_popescu;as opposed to prayer technology, say.
1420487;1456946155;PeterL;but if there is wait-time-weighting being done by miners, then sitting for a week would make the transaction viable when it was not before
1420488;1456946155;mircea_popescu;i don't want a fucking big-brother-bitcoin-from-china-san to pray to.
1420489;1456946157;mircea_popescu;do you ?
1420490;1456946162;asciilifeform;nope.
1420491;1456946166;mircea_popescu;i'm sure you could live with it. but that's a different question.
1420492;1456946173;asciilifeform;i already live with one.
1420493;1456946175;asciilifeform;don't want another.
1420494;1456946247;ben_vulpes;china-san lol
1420495;1456946275;asciilifeform;and it's 'grandpa of the iron ricebowl' in cn.
1420496;1456946277;asciilifeform;not big brother.
1420497;1456946294;mircea_popescu;PeterL that's an anachronistic argument. merely because they included it once B, you infer that they would have included it wherher B or non-B. this both fails tgo explain all the points prior to B that didn't include it (standard lifetime of mempool tx is about half the interval contemplated here) and the fact that you're drawing in the conclusion in the presumptions.
1420498;1456946311;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: did you pay to have a block mined including your transaction before sending the dup?
1420499;1456946318;ben_vulpes;wondering if you saw it reorg'd out
1420500;1456946328;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i did not.
1420501;1456946341;ben_vulpes;because "from whom to rent"?
1420502;1456946360;mircea_popescu;because you can't measure all things at the same time, basically.
1420503;1456946378;ben_vulpes;sure sure
1420504;1456946390;mircea_popescu;can give the show away etc.
1420505;1456946400;ben_vulpes;give the show away?
1420506;1456947263;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420479 < sad to see it took you so long to notice/learn this. has been so since day 1.
1420507;1456947263;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 19:14:47; mircea_popescu: that's tghe problem here. something wasn't good for an entire week that suddenly became good. this selective-bitcoin is in no sense bitcoin,
1420508;1456947319;mircea_popescu;there's a significant difference between "this cave is infested with spiders" and "this cave is home to a spider queen the size of a camper van". at least to my eyes.
1420509;1456947336;asciilifeform;meanwhile, http://qz.com/628761/the-irs-is-using-a-system-that-was-hacked-to-protect-victims-of-a-hack-and-it-was-just-hacked
1420510;1456947337;assbot;The IRS is using a system that was hacked to protect victims of a hack—and it was just hacked - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1nietXu )
1420511;1456947349;mircea_popescu;spiders in 1st case you handle on a case by case basis. organized spider hive, you bring out a flamethrowing tank and sear it.
1420512;1456947360;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ahahaha o god.
1420513;1456947372;PeterL;wasn't the bitcoin foundation going to produce a protocol spec at some point, or is that on the list after the reference implementation is more developed?
1420514;1456947383;mircea_popescu;this shit is hard to do!
1420515;1456947402;mircea_popescu;yes, ideally, it should, eventually.
1420516;1456947517;mircea_popescu;anyone writing up that irs story for qntra ? juices flowing every which way lol
1420517;1456947523;BingoBoingo;^
1420518;1456947625;trinque;As long as they keep their PINs secret, they should be safe from fraud. For this master plan to work, though, the IRS would also have to keep the PINs secret. << oh my god the win
1420519;1456947632;mircea_popescu;:))
1420520;1456947640;mircea_popescu;this is good for fiat.
1420521;1456947657;mircea_popescu;in other news at 4:42 - all money systems significantly more broken than previously realised.
1420522;1456953778;mircea_popescu;deedbot- http://dpaste.com/29BXDGV.txt
1420523;1456953779;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMdQNu )
1420524;1456954429;*;asciilifeform expected a declaration of war, mildly disappointed!11
1420525;1456954523;trinque;bot didn't eat it for some reason
1420526;1456954526;*;trinque looks
1420527;1456954769;deedbot-;[Trilema] MiniGame (S.MG), February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-february-2016-statement/
1420528;1456954830;mircea_popescu;trinque doesn't like that there's multiples ? or what did i do wrong ?
1420529;1456954840;mircea_popescu;awww alf, sorry to disappoint!
1420530;1456954881;mircea_popescu;anyway, i've been working on that thing for two days in 30 second installments in between nutty bitcoin shit that shouldn't happen anyway.
1420531;1456955354;trinque;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2DR0VPZ.txt
1420532;1456955357;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMi0oy )
1420533;1456955424;trinque;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/0BGYTNH.txt
1420534;1456955425;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMibjK )
1420535;1456955427;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1420536;1456955435;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i gotta ask, what happens to shares owned by the dead ?
1420537;1456955439;trinque;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/08AA9MJ.txt
1420538;1456955440;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMifA0 )
1420539;1456955440;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1420540;1456955457;trinque;parser's borked
1420541;1456955472;mircea_popescu;in general, unspecified, in particular cases, as agreed with the previously living.
1420542;1456955477;PeterL;asciilifeform presumably they go to the estate of the decesed?
1420543;1456955519;ben_vulpes;PeterL: no caselaw
1420544;1456955533;ben_vulpes;and only if the estate controls the key!
1420545;1456955534;PeterL;put the dispensation of your shares into a will, stick it in deedbot?
1420546;1456955547;ben_vulpes;that'd be a contract between you and your broken, no?
1420547;1456955552;ben_vulpes;broker*
1420548;1456955571;asciilifeform;if somebody has the key, 'you' are still alive...
1420549;1456955575;mircea_popescu;i could see the deedbot will thing.
1420550;1456955580;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu's thing doesn't care about what's in deedbot-, does it?
1420551;1456955591;mircea_popescu;which one ?
1420552;1456955594;asciilifeform;(just as if you lose your key, you are dead, though still breathing)
1420553;1456955596;ben_vulpes;mpex
1420554;1456955606;mircea_popescu;not afaik, no.
1420555;1456955619;*;ben_vulpes wonders who else would k
1420556;1456955637;mircea_popescu;:p
1420557;1456955639;PeterL;so really, asciilifeform's question is: what happens to shares if the key is lost?
1420558;1456955652;ben_vulpes;the account persists on mpex until mircea_popescu cleans it out
1420559;1456955654;mircea_popescu;now for that, we do have caselaw.
1420560;1456955683;ben_vulpes;where in the log might inquiring minds read this caselaw, mircea_popescu ?
1420561;1456955695;mircea_popescu;wasn't there some guy with a lucrative eth contract that lost his key ?
1420562;1456955721;asciilifeform;i might be mentally overextending traditions from the meat world, but wouldn't a lost key be different from a dead lord's in the sense where a man lost at sea differs from one buried with witnesses ?
1420563;1456955722;ben_vulpes;a that
1420564;1456955734;asciilifeform;lost - can reappear. theoretically.
1420565;1456955753;mircea_popescu;yeah doesn't seem the same story to me either.
1420566;1456955768;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes seems exactly the same thing.
1420567;1456955783;asciilifeform;(though, in pathological cases, the dead can rise again, say chetty wrote down her key somewhere, for whatever reason, and it is found)
1420568;1456955810;mircea_popescu;recall the case of that woman that had a child with the dead ?
1420569;1456955827;asciilifeform;hm?
1420570;1456955834;mircea_popescu;large patrimonial dispute maybe a decade ago
1420571;1456955856;mircea_popescu;trophy slut of old man who died, had kid, claimed inheritance.
1420572;1456955856;asciilifeform;not familiar with the case, but plenty of this in ww2 ?
1420573;1456955866;mircea_popescu;family - less than thrilled.
1420574;1456956097;mircea_popescu;incidentally, anyone know the joke with the rabbit and the bear ? the one with the beret
1420575;1456956205;asciilifeform;i only recall the hedgehog.
1420576;1456956433;mircea_popescu;which one was that ?
1420577;1456956463;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2014#803437
1420578;1456956463;assbot;Logged on 21-08-2014 01:31:44; mircea_popescu: mkay. so in th forest there lived this very horny, huge schlong bear. sort of like one eye pete of the beardom.
1420579;1456956472;mircea_popescu;ah no.
1420580;1456956600;mircea_popescu;so wolf and fox walk around the forest and they see a rabbit. fox : "let's beat the shit out of this loser" wolf : "we need a reason..." fox : "we'll ask him where's his beret... and if he has none, we beat the shit out of him!"
1420581;1456956628;mircea_popescu;so the rabbit buys himself a beret.
1420582;1456956650;mircea_popescu;next the two meet him, they ask for a cigarette. which he gives them. so they ask for a light. rabbit is all like "sure, what'd you like, match, ligther ?"
1420583;1456956654;mircea_popescu;so they beat the shit out of him again
1420584;1456956661;mircea_popescu;"why!" "where's your fucking beret!"
1420585;1456956802;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00056431 = 15.575 BTC [+]
1420586;1456956846;asciilifeform;this one's new to me, but i recall a similar.
1420587;1456956863;asciilifeform;crocodile swimming in the river, sees monkeys beating a hippo savagely.
1420588;1456956867;asciilifeform;he asks why
1420589;1456956877;asciilifeform;they: 'for having such a big mouth'
1420590;1456956905;asciilifeform;croc: 'ню-ню' (~= hmm, hmm.)
1420591;1456956931;mircea_popescu;hehe
1420592;1456957083;asciilifeform;(for n00bz, this is pronounced with maximally puckered lips)
1420593;1456958120;deedbot-;[Qntra] Government Accountability Office Declines To Offer Opinion On Worthless USG Finances - http://qntra.net/2016/03/government-accountability-office-declines-to-offer-opinion-on-worthless-usg-finances/
1420594;1456958388;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100321 @ 0.00056259 = 56.4396 BTC [-] {4} 
1420595;1456958510;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10809 @ 0.00056211 = 6.0758 BTC [-]
1420596;1456958926;BingoBoingo;Win https://i.sli.mg/d0MOEm.png
1420597;1456958926;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1ORg0tX )
1420598;1456959364;pete_dushenski;if i may summarise the last 24 hours of logs, which i must say were eminently enjoyable save the lack of practical recourse discussed : bitcoin remains the world's worst payment network... except for all the others. and even still, not by much.
1420599;1456959381;mircea_popescu;something like that.
1420600;1456959409;pete_dushenski;hey, it's a living (tm) (r)
1420601;1456959484;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Practical recourse was discussed in older threads
1420602;1456959532;shinohai;I am cursing bitcoin today - had my first trb database crash ... evidently I did not back up *everything* required and must now start my first node from scratch.
1420603;1456959565;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: for users, sure. i found my own workarounds last month when i misattributed tx propogation failure to bitcoinj instead of bitbet taint. but for businesses ?
1420604;1456959579;asciilifeform;shinohai: i think it is interesting that i've been kill -9 'ing trb since day 1 and never had this problem.
1420605;1456959584;BingoBoingo;The solution is brick chicom miners
1420606;1456959591;pete_dushenski;shinohai: o.O lame man
1420607;1456959600;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: atomic war is expensive.
1420608;1456959602;asciilifeform;for everybody.
1420609;1456959626;trinque;never a bad thing to have a weekly cron which stops trb gently, rsync's blockchain elsewhere, restarts
1420610;1456959630;trinque;shinohai: ^
1420611;1456959630;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Then we will fend off the second round of rats with sticks
1420612;1456959663;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the difference between kernel-mediated closedown and crash is that there's better handling of buffers.
1420613;1456959688;asciilifeform;fair'nuff.
1420614;1456959731;mircea_popescu;but yes, what trinque said is a very useful protective measure.
1420615;1456959781;mircea_popescu;(make sure yo uonly rsync if you stopped it, tho!)
1420616;1456959820;shinohai;This time I am backing up the entire .bitcoin folder, space be damned
1420617;1456959862;asciilifeform;i have 3-4 trb nodez going, just on house lan, at all times, so backup sorta solves itself.
1420618;1456959881;mircea_popescu;this also works.
1420619;1456959903;asciilifeform;and quite likely the easist variant.
1420620;1456959908;asciilifeform;*easiest
1420621;1456959922;asciilifeform;run moar trb.
1420622;1456959952;shinohai;I'm up to 2 nodes, but one is remote so isn't feasible to sync that way at this time I guess. Hopefully project budget allows for an extra dedi box this year sometimes.
1420623;1456959956;asciilifeform;srsly, rsyncing the blockchain, wtfwhy
1420624;1456959979;trinque;so then they all hit the same bug and chew their blockchains at once
1420625;1456959982;trinque;that's wtfwhy
1420626;1456959983;trinque;lol
1420627;1456959991;shinohai;lol
1420628;1456960007;asciilifeform;trinque: so have at least 1 on a workstation that gets backed up normally.
1420629;1456960015;asciilifeform;(you have one, no?)
1420630;1456960021;trinque;that's exactly what I said
1420631;1456960037;BingoBoingo;node likely also needs battery
1420632;1456960044;BingoBoingo;battery is good
1420633;1456960079;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: mains battery and raid card cum battery, for best result.
1420634;1456960081;*;asciilifeform recommends.
1420635;1456960149;*;BingoBoingo is unfamiliar with cum cell battery
1420636;1456960151;shinohai;I have a UPS that runs node. My problem occured today when I attempted to import a private key into wallet.dat
1420637;1456960176;BingoBoingo;shinohai: That generally slows down node for entire blockchain rescan
1420638;1456960198;trinque;takes quite a long time
1420639;1456960199;shinohai;I didn't even get to the rescan part, just db error :/
1420640;1456960214;trinque;the whole wallet is severely fucked in a number of ways
1420641;1456960218;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32268 @ 0.00056185 = 18.1298 BTC [-] {3} 
1420642;1456960279;shinohai;It isn't very useful as a wallet unfortunately.
1420643;1456960295;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Maybe write one in Shiva?
1420644;1456960328;shinohai;heh
1420645;1456960353;pete_dushenski;shinohai: may we all benefit from your mistake! /me scurries to make backups of backups
1420646;1456960408;pete_dushenski;shinohai: and were you using polarbeard patch for the privkey import ?
1420647;1456960426;trinque;!s polarbeard importprivkey
1420648;1456960426;assbot;0 results for 'polarbeard importprivkey' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=polarbeard+importprivkey
1420649;1456960434;shinohai;No I was using the pywallet method I have used before. Today it just decided it didn't like it.
1420650;1456960435;trinque;!s funkenstein importprivkey
1420651;1456960435;assbot;4 results for 'funkenstein importprivkey' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=funkenstein+importprivkey
1420652;1456960442;trinque;pete_dushenski: I think it was herr funkenstein
1420653;1456960447;trinque;unless there are two
1420654;1456960462;trinque;I used funkenstein's, worked but the wallet's still unusable
1420655;1456960473;pete_dushenski;trinque: aha. my mistake. you're correct.
1420656;1456960523;shinohai;Now it works ok as a wallet if you use the generated keys, but that isn't practical on a live node.
1420657;1456960534;shinohai;Must have way to import cold/paper wllets
1420658;1456960538;shinohai;*wallets
1420659;1456960578;pete_dushenski;shinohai: there's always (whisper it) bc.info. from there you can zip off the coins to whatever live wallet or other address you might so desire
1420660;1456960599;mircea_popescu;trinque> so then they all hit the same bug and chew their blockchains at once << no because heterogenous :D
1420661;1456960626;trinque;trololol
1420662;1456960632;trinque;to live in such days as the era of software!
1420663;1456960663;trinque;I will need at least a sendrawtxn command soon lest I go mad with deedbot-, will most likely take a crack at it soon
1420664;1456960664;mircea_popescu;with tools like these, who needs a horde of stampeding bulls on ecstasy.
1420665;1456960702;pete_dushenski;since when do ibizans go to pamplona ? ;)
1420666;1456960715;shinohai;xD
1420667;1456960796;shinohai;I forgot about the heathen bc,info allowing that pete_dushenski. Unfortunately too late now, my client went elsewhere and I do not have my coveted BTC today.
1420668;1456960904;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420315 << go figure that this ~exact~ tx withholding experience (combined with coincidence of trinque's and mod6's excellent scripts) lead me to set up battlefield trb node, which, yes, is defended with life. who says rape isn't educative ?! this is my asshole goddamit !!1
1420669;1456960904;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 17:21:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've been thinking about it, but i don't think this is actually resolvable. as it happens - the "magically working network - we don't know how it works" thing is much more appealing to the average joe than you know, "this is my node. i will defend it with my life". what life, are you kidding, got sitcoms to watch and shit.
1420670;1456960981;mircea_popescu;i guess there's that.
1420671;1456961009;mircea_popescu;ceterum censeo chicom esse delendam.
1420672;1456961062;shinohai;Seinfeld plays happily in the background as i do trb work.
1420673;1456961077;shinohai;Most TV is garbage anyway
1420674;1456962036;pete_dushenski;http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/558/7/S3815587/slug/l/bugatti-chiron-12-1.jpg << in other news you can use, bugatti has a released a successor to the 'world's fastest car', the 2006 veyron (and sub-variants). the new car is called the 'chiron' and it gives an excellent view as to fiat inflation in the last decade : the chiron is 2.4x the list price of the veyron, which works out
1420675;1456962038;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24CiPun )
1420676;1456962038;pete_dushenski; to 9% average annual inflation before you even account for the 11% greater production supply of the new model.
1420677;1456962135;pete_dushenski;the chiron is basically as close as one can come to riding in the atomic dirigible of land travel.
1420678;1456962221;pete_dushenski;http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160301104845-chiron-2-super-169.jpg http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160301104358-chiron-8-super-169.jpg
1420679;1456962222;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24Cja00 )
1420680;1456962223;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24Cja02 )
1420681;1456962529;shinohai;Bold design to say the least.
1420682;1456962532;pete_dushenski;no word, however, on how much chicom in chiron. almost certainly non-zero.
1420683;1456962886;punkman;pete_dushenski: the chiron is basically as close as one can come to riding in the atomic dirigible of land travel. << I'd take a UNICAT over the bugatti
1420684;1456962908;punkman;http://www.unicat.net/ua-en/pics/UXL17HD-2.php
1420685;1456962909;assbot;UNICAT® › Expedition Vehicles › Special › UXL 17-HD ... ( http://bit.ly/1VRnPp1 )
1420686;1456962966;pete_dushenski;punkman: for living, all day. for a-->b, depends on road quality!
1420687;1456963002;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418508 << lol if i knew i wouldn't be asking
1420688;1456963002;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 21:52:34; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2016#1415503 << mount her on a bicycle, pilfer a bottle from the office, mash around the city on bikes, break onto the in-decomissionment sellwood bridge and fuck on it? iono man what does one do with random girls anyways
1420689;1456963473;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1420690;1456963479;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 422.3, vol: 5801.00867275 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 424.816, vol: 7155.85995 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 422.69, vol: 17155.59828841 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 445.0, vol: 1.11745534 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 429.847446, vol: 77391.90040000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 421.17, vol: 1344.72873428 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 425.44305, vol: 43.21277498 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1420691;1456963486;BingoBoingo;;;more
1420692;1456963487;gribble;427.878368498
1420693;1456963949;punkman;;;interval
1420694;1456963950;gribble;553.8461538461539
1420695;1456964123;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1420696;1456964127;gribble;Current Blocks: 400899 | Current Difficulty: 1.6349165490895926E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 401183 | Next Difficulty In: 284 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 41 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1420697;1456964137;BingoBoingo;;;mtbf
1420698;1456964138;gribble;Error: "mtbf" is not a valid command.
1420699;1456964610;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77580 @ 0.00056716 = 44.0003 BTC [+] {5} 
1420700;1456964671;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14658 @ 0.00056927 = 8.3444 BTC [+] {2} 
1420701;1456964901;shinohai;http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-dream-of-buying-a-coffee-with-bitcoin-is-dying-if-its-not-already-dead-block-size-fees   <<< lol this article
1420702;1456964902;assbot;The Dream of Buying a Coffee With Bitcoin Is Dying, If It’s Not Already Dead | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVEat5 )
1420703;1456965578;pete_dushenski;shinohai: heh. that dream has been deader than the animal fur on trump's head for 2 years and counting.
1420704;1456965629;pete_dushenski;http://www.contravex.com/2014/02/25/matters-of-bitcoin-merchant-adoption/ << pretty much summed up here
1420705;1456965630;assbot;On Matters of Merchant Adoption | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1p02pfo )
1420706;1456969411;asciilifeform;some gentoo lulz:
1420707;1456969412;asciilifeform; * Messages for package www-client/chromium-48.0.2564.116:
1420708;1456969412;asciilifeform; * There is NOT at least 3 GiB RAM
1420709;1456969412;asciilifeform; * Space constraints set in the ebuild were not met!
1420710;1456969439;asciilifeform;since when does an ebuild get to distinguish between physical ram and available total (incl. swap) ?
1420711;1456969445;asciilifeform;and who the fuck permitted this.
1420712;1456969460;asciilifeform;what MOTHERFUCKING BUSINESS is it of the port what kind of ram.
1420713;1456969533;asciilifeform;l0l, reading the src, apparently I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING="true" cures...
1420714;1456969567;phf;lunix on desktop! women in javascript! ubuntu!
1420715;1456969603;asciilifeform;btw am i the only one who thinks of lumumba when hearing ubuntu ?
1420716;1456969671;phf;you've got the socialist cheat sheet by way of having played this game before. others -- don't
1420717;1456969712;BingoBoingo;;;google How do I keep the squirrels in my yard away from my bird feeders
1420718;1456969713;gribble;Solving Squirrel Problems at the Backyard Wild Bird Feeder ...: <http://www.birdsforever.com/bird-feeder-squirrel-problems.html>; Tips for Outwitting Squirrels - National Wildlife Federation: <http://www.nwf.org/news-and-magazines/national-wildlife/birds/archives/2010/squirrels.aspx>; Keeping Squirrels Off of Bird Feeder - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaJL0fAARfM>
1420719;1456970006;phf;it's like every american "knows" who ghandi is, but who's ever heard of nehru?
1420720;1456970068;asciilifeform;an old officemate of mine (now deceased, he was in his 80s) was, for some perverse reason, very boastful of having known nehru personally.
1420721;1456970078;asciilifeform;had whole notebook of photos.
1420722;1456970094;asciilifeform;but - he was not an american.
1420723;1456970115;asciilifeform;though he worked for 58 years for usg and was in 'plum book' (emeritus, or whatever the heathens call it)
1420724;1456970129;asciilifeform;poor fella, kept showing up even though he was no longer on the org chart.
1420725;1456970152;asciilifeform;(retired on account of 'tired of reviewing my own self every year, it is a ludicrous farce')
1420726;1456970176;asciilifeform;nobody would turn him out, he had the keys and - theoretically - outranked everybody, incl. base commander.
1420727;1456970181;asciilifeform;(or so he insisted.)
1420728;1456970295;phf;do you know what hurree babu really wants? he wants to be made a member of the royal society by taking ethnological notes.
1420729;1456970330;asciilifeform;aha!
1420730;1456970370;asciilifeform;see also orwell's immortal http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-02-2016#1416116
1420731;1456970370;assbot;Logged on 26-02-2016 18:42:55; asciilifeform: '‘Ach, sir, it iss worse when they become refractory! One man, I recall, clung to the bars of hiss cage when we went to take him out. You will scarcely credit, sir, that it took six warders to dislodge him, three pulling at each leg. We reasoned with him. “My dear fellow,” we said, “think of all the pain and trouble you are causing to us!” But no, he would not listen! Ach, he wass very troub
1420732;1456970766;asciilifeform;it was actually from.. i'll call him dr. plumbook,
1420733;1456970771;asciilifeform;that i even learned that plum book existed.
1420734;1456970791;asciilifeform;he was, (shock!) very boastful of being listed (at some, then recent, past) in it.
1420735;1456971037;asciilifeform;i heard that when he died, the very few folks whose employment survived his retirement, were finally sacked.
1420736;1456971090;phf;i know a lot of career bureaucrats through my parents, and most of them tend to be very proud of chance associations, mentions, friendships, etc. "of note"
1420737;1456971107;asciilifeform;(for n00bz who think 'it is impossible to be sacked from usg' - it is actually very easy. one merely has to be employed as a contractor, of whom there is a dozen or two for every actual 'civil servant', and then you can be fired any hour.)
1420738;1456971156;asciilifeform;phf: aha. also.
1420739;1456971178;phf;i'm pretty sure gogol made a few jabs at this particular feature of bureaucrat caste
1420740;1456971184;asciilifeform;for some reason, every orc has, flashed into his firmware, this secret dream of becoming usg bureaucrat.
1420741;1456971187;asciilifeform;why - i do not know.
1420742;1456971220;asciilifeform;phf: i actually have met americans who read, e.g., 'overcoat.' in transl.
1420743;1456971226;asciilifeform;(but, naturally, drew no conclusions.)
1420744;1456971254;BingoBoingo;For some reason Birdfeeders remind me of the Maryland city known as "James Lafond presents Baltimore" http://feederwatch.org/blog/tell-us-about-bird-behavior-at-your-feeder/
1420745;1456971256;assbot;Tell us about bird behavior at your feeder - FeederWatch ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqnxS9 )
1420746;1456971285;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> (for n00bz who think 'it is impossible to be sacked from usg' - it is actually very easy. one merely has to be employed as a contractor, of whom there is a dozen or two for every actual 'civil servant', and then you can be fired any hour.) << Or appointee (i.e. patronage position)
1420747;1456971313;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: appointees are not fired in the usual sense, merely sent back to do some identical thing on a corp. board.
1420748;1456971316;asciilifeform;where they come from.
1420749;1456971333;asciilifeform;then the next fella gets a turn at setting up graft flow.
1420750;1456971342;asciilifeform;(for his 'consultancy'.)
1420751;1456971358;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Many are, but they first have to survive audition level appointment unless their scales are sufficiently silver
1420752;1456972235;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37312 @ 0.00056954 = 21.2507 BTC [+]
1420753;1456973700;mircea_popescu;phf> lunix on desktop! women in javascript! ubuntu! << you know eulora is pretty much 100% woman-made.
1420754;1456974175;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> why - i do not know. <<it's the human love of variety. ends up making contrived shit seem appealing, especially to women (and castrated men, such as intellectuals and bureaucrats - which, by the way, are about the same thing)
1420755;1456974216;mircea_popescu;every farm hottie in the mud envies the old lady her complex undergarments. blessfully unaware that the old lady needs the complex undergarments to mask the fact that there's no activity they'd get in the way of.
1420756;1456974245;phf;mircea_popescu: but it's not written in javascript
1420757;1456974256;mircea_popescu;damn close. c++
1420758;1456974261;mircea_popescu;VERY BAD c++, also.
1420759;1456974317;phf;pretty sure it's not these womens fault, eulora's upstream was "derps in gaming"
1420760;1456974342;mircea_popescu;yup. slowly fixing it. but still.
1420761;1456974369;*;jurov has after maybe a week of full lisp immersion managed to write a function that crashes eclisp cold. details withheld till i reproduce on another machine
1420762;1456974385;mircea_popescu;this is your main talent, isn't it ?
1420763;1456974386;jurov;and only 8 lines fitting in terminal!
1420764;1456974430;jurov;yes, looks like that
1420765;1456974457;phf;ftr i've worked with female programmers, on average not better or worse then males, who would've thought. i've also briefly worked with "women in javascript" and they are predominantly wreckers
1420766;1456974526;mircea_popescu;phf usually "women in gaming" is a supercharged "women in javascript" thing. very politically driven drivel.
1420767;1456974537;mircea_popescu;afaik eulora is strictly the only exception.
1420768;1456974571;mircea_popescu;then again, gaming world is kinda opaque, who knows.
1420769;1456974863;phf;friend of mine coined a term "tech dykes" years before it became a thing. bossy mostly lesbian girls who are good at pushing nerdy boys around, so work as program leads and agile consultants. but that was before there was a strong political component
1420770;1456974935;mircea_popescu;this is a very good arrangement tho.
1420771;1456974948;mircea_popescu;most gaming programmers are nerdy kids, hard to be motivated by males.
1420772;1456974970;mircea_popescu;well, except if it's ben_vulpes
1420773;1456975144;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420772 << iirc he employs gurlz
1420774;1456975144;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 03:16:10; mircea_popescu: well, except if it's ben_vulpes
1420775;1456975285;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00056937 = 13.0955 BTC [-]
1420776;1456977882;asciilifeform;https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/thinkpad/led-inverter.shtml << interesting, strictly for aficionados
1420777;1456977884;assbot;Thinkpad Hacking: LED Backlight Conversions ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqHl84 )
1420778;1456978225;asciilifeform;http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_a_QXGA_display_in_a_R/T60_or_61 << in the same vein. also interesting, in the sense of what a strong fuck-you this is to modern laptop makers
1420779;1456978226;assbot;Installing a QXGA display in a R/T60 or 61 - ThinkWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqIpsC )
1420780;1456978234;asciilifeform;'we will maintain our beloved boxes forever'
1420781;1456982653;danielpbarron;;; later tell trinque please to add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/ to deebot blogs
1420782;1456982657;assbot;Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )
1420783;1456982657;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1420784;1456983504;BingoBoingo;Fucking hamplanet enablers http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/10/30/obese-crash-test-dummies/18168679/
1420785;1456983505;assbot;Like drivers, crash-test dummies are becoming obese ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9Kqz6 )
1420786;1456983864;BingoBoingo;Mayo privilege is being able to travel to places your body doesn't fit https://i.imgur.com/E4B4rOh.jpg
1420787;1456983865;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9L6Vl )
1420788;1456983947;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32215 @ 0.00056611 = 18.2372 BTC [-] {2} 
1420789;1456984202;*;BingoBoingo not sure if Qntra worthy, anyone got an angle? http://news.softpedia.com/news/sea-pirates-hacked-shipping-company-to-find-valuable-cargo-501268.shtml
1420790;1456984435;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27351 @ 0.00056936 = 15.5726 BTC [+] {2} 
1420791;1456985501;BingoBoingo;More Empire of Fee-Fees https://archive.is/HHUeo
1420792;1456985502;assbot;Algebra II has to go. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QNdwOw )
1420793;1456985551;BingoBoingo;�It�s not the same,� I told him. �Reading fiction builds empathy.�
1420794;1456987855;phf;well, that was a rabbit hole of progressive insanity
1420795;1456987967;phf;dana goldstein her husband andrei scheinkman, andrew hacker and his "domestic partner" claudia dreifus, just leave these names here, for the log
1420796;1456987978;phf;*leaving
1420797;1456988045;phf;andrew hacker wrote an opinion article in the new york times in 2012 where he did a test run of this idea, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html
1420798;1456988048;assbot;Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1VRYfA8 )
1420799;1456988188;BingoBoingo;Seriously though, where does this "citizen statistics" come from?
1420800;1456988202;BingoBoingo;How do you get statistics without Algebra?
1420801;1456988267;phf;"It could, for example, teach students how the Consumer Price Index is computed, what is included and how each item in the index is weighted — and include discussion about which items should be included and what weights they should be given."
1420802;1456988284;phf;"I hope that mathematics departments can also create courses in the history and philosophy of their discipline, as well as its applications in early cultures. Why not mathematics in art and music — even poetry — along with its role in assorted sciences? The aim would be to treat mathematics as a liberal art, making it as accessible and welcoming as sculpture or ballet."
1420803;1456988299;phf;^- that's how
1420804;1456988389;BingoBoingo;mathematics in music is called musical theory and already a class sequence
1420805;1456988522;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45850 @ 0.00056611 = 25.9561 BTC [-] {2} 
1420806;1456988845;BingoBoingo;It also spots a lot of failures enrolled in class
1420807;1456988974;phf;speaking of ballet, i went to see Mariinsky Ballet company perform at jfk center, place was packed, tickets were sold out months in advance, cheapest of them >$100. the company comes to u.s. once a year, brings one production, performs for one week. they are masters of their craft, with rigorous, brutal training regime and a demanding director. and it shows! meanwhile "accessible" american ballet is by and large mediocre, using
1420808;1456988975;phf;"experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
1420809;1456994622;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2473 @ 0.00056625 = 1.4003 BTC [+]
1420810;1456995049;ben_vulpes;how the fuck is ballet accessible
1420811;1456995112;ben_vulpes;ballet is 'start when you're five and dedicate your life to it and 95% of you will fail to accomplish anything in the art even after doing so through your mid twenties at which point your body will be ruined and your mind will have forgone all education in pursuit of the art"
1420812;1456995204;ben_vulpes;and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"
1420813;1456995226;ben_vulpes;serra, pardon
1420814;1456995329;ben_vulpes;https://www.gagosian.com/exhibitions/october-27-2009--richard-serra ehehueh it's a vagina
1420815;1456995331;assbot;Richard Serra - October 27 - December 23, 2009 - Gagosian Gallery ... ( http://bit.ly/1oR9WfK )
1420816;1456995617;ben_vulpes;http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/richard-serra-in-the-qatari-desert << another point on the 'what is art' curve and discussion
1420817;1456995618;assbot;Richard Serra in the Qatari Desert - The New Yorker ... ( http://bit.ly/1oRan9R )
1420818;1457000981;cazalla;evenin'
1420819;1457001271;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00056752 = 19.9767 BTC [+]
1420820;1457003285;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00056726 = 15.9967 BTC [-] {3} 
1420821;1457004382;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15419 @ 0.000567 = 8.7426 BTC [-]
1420822;1457005689;punkman;http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/mosul-dam-engineers-warn-it-could-fail-at-any-time-killing-1m-people
1420823;1457005690;assbot;Mosul dam engineers warn it could fail at any time, killing 1m people | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21JqgxB )
1420824;1457005724;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00056694 = 24.095 BTC [-] {2} 
1420825;1457005968;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19950 @ 0.00056751 = 11.3218 BTC [+] {2} 
1420826;1457006546;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.12911122 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $900 before Sep 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1251/bitcoin-to-top-900-before-sep-2016/#b8
1420827;1457006556;punkman;http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/29457/1/in-1998-this-webcam-woman-was-the-most-famous-person-online
1420828;1457006556;assbot;In 1998 this webcam woman was the most famous person online | Dazed ... ( http://bit.ly/1UB7HK0 )
1420829;1457007127;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00056752 = 16.8553 BTC [+]
1420830;1457009983;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 9.99990000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b136
1420831;1457010731;asciilifeform;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661 << interesting
1420832;1457010732;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TULYvP )
1420833;1457010751;asciilifeform;'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking transparency besides empowered
1420834;1457010751;asciilifeform; attackers?'
1420835;1457010798;asciilifeform;^ for some reason i thought it was obvious that bitbet ~did~ win from publishing actual, live bet addrs
1420836;1457010817;asciilifeform;(shows that the thing is actually real, in real time)
1420837;1457010970;asciilifeform;now the root of the matter is, the miners do not particularly relish being publicly called the vermin they are. and if they weren't specifically taking aim at tmsr, they will at some point work up the nerve, and do so. 'whatchagonnado about it.'
1420838;1457011103;asciilifeform;the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.
1420839;1457011375;shinohai;"Bitcoin was designed and is intended to work with anonymous addresses"   <<< but  thought addresses weren't completely anonymous anyway.
1420840;1457011602;trinque;deedbot-: feed add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/
1420841;1457011607;assbot;Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )
1420842;1457011616;trinque;deedbot-: feeds add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/
1420843;1457011620;assbot;Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )
1420844;1457011620;deedbot-;http://danielpbarron.com/feed/ added.
1420845;1457011682;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Hello world! - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/hello-world/
1420846;1457011682;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] A Minor Problem - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/a-minor-problem/
1420847;1457014203;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34823 @ 0.00056611 = 19.7136 BTC [-] {2} 
1420848;1457015545;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00056611 = 1.5285 BTC [-]
1420849;1457015836;hanbot;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420258 << or just as well, mp attacking a specific cartelism.
1420850;1457015836;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 16:58:23; asciilifeform: d bet money that there is some peculiar mpbism that is being exploited here.
1420851;1457016109;BingoBoingo;Win http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/0350241/incident-raises-concerns-about-a-more-formal-spec-for-bitcoin
1420852;1457016111;assbot;Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1oRQmA4 )
1420853;1457016521;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21750 @ 0.00056751 = 12.3433 BTC [+] {2} 
1420854;1457016904;kakobrekla;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 < aha
1420855;1457016906;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
1420856;1457017156;mircea_popescu;soo s.mg report edited to include deedbot link.
1420857;1457017168;mircea_popescu;i think that's how warrants etc are going to go from now on. deedbot ftw.
1420858;1457017269;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420789 << it is pretty lulzy, in a meta sort of way.
1420859;1457017269;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 05:50:02; *: BingoBoingo not sure if Qntra worthy, anyone got an angle? http://news.softpedia.com/news/sea-pirates-hacked-shipping-company-to-find-valuable-cargo-501268.shtml
1420860;1457017407;mircea_popescu;holy shit sherlock, hey BingoBoingo check out slashdot comprehending things!
1420861;1457017407;mircea_popescu;http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627819
1420862;1457017409;assbot;Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1yHqf )
1420863;1457017564;kakobrekla;meanwhile http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sturles/ confirms he is the author of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420854
1420864;1457017569;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 14:55:04; kakobrekla: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 < aha
1420865;1457017596;mircea_popescu;they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895
1420866;1457017597;assbot;Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1zhUQ )
1420867;1457017633;jurov;asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.
1420868;1457017634;*;mircea_popescu fights the urge to skip ahead in teh log.
1420869;1457017669;jurov;or do you have some $secretsuperfast swap device?
1420870;1457017694;jurov;even then, the trashing would make the machine unusable for a ~hour
1420871;1457017737;jurov;so, it's there for a reason.
1420872;1457017754;mircea_popescu;"It drives dropout rates and is mostly useless in real life. Andrew Hacker has a plan for getting rid of it." dude, seriously ?! "stem myth" ? that place is so set for greatness. and i mean greatness literally.
1420873;1457017775;mircea_popescu;jurov wow, what the hell is in those 10gb ?!
1420874;1457017798;mircea_popescu;since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?
1420875;1457017892;mircea_popescu;"Only mathematicians and some engineers actually use advanced math in their day-to-day work, Hacker argues�even the doctors, accountants, and coders of the future shouldn�t have to master abstract math that they�ll never need." [and could one day use to find out some unsavory facts about the best possible castle in the world!"
1420876;1457017944;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.
1420877;1457017944;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 06:50:55; phf: well, that was a rabbit hole of progressive insanity
1420878;1457017953;jurov;mircea_popescu: ask google
1420879;1457017955;mircea_popescu;like in that joke with the drunk and the samovar. you know it ?
1420880;1457017984;mircea_popescu;;;google largest three items on chromium profile by ram
1420881;1457017985;gribble;Chromium (web browser) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)>; Out of memory handling - The Chromium Projects: <https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/out-of-memory-handling>; Hard Drive filling up? Check Chrome's File System folder - gHacks ...: <http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/24/hard-drive-filling-up- (1 more message)
1420882;1457018013;mircea_popescu;you see jurov, google is next to useless for any purpose that involves having taken algebra II. all it can do is help you build empathy.
1420883;1457018065;jurov;and i did not profile it, just looked on top output
1420884;1457018081;mircea_popescu;a ok.
1420885;1457018176;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420800 << it's not "statistics and citizenship" as anything but "this is what you must believe about statistics to be a citizen".
1420886;1457018176;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 06:56:42; BingoBoingo: How do you get statistics without Algebra?
1420887;1457018185;BingoBoingo;ok
1420888;1457018212;mircea_popescu;sort-of trying to chinese cartel the electoral process, pretty much.
1420889;1457018257;jurov;just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question
1420890;1457018270;mircea_popescu;"you can have your own opinions, but we want to move from this situation where harvard & mit lied to you about you being smart enough to resolve any real word conondrum 'if you just got the facts [as officially branded facts by harvard and mit]'" to a much more economical "you can have your own opinions just as long as they're what we say they should be".
1420891;1457018277;jurov;so it's prolly the same with chromium's javascript engine
1420892;1457018317;mircea_popescu;centralization of opinion mining being inevitable, given that the problem of university financing is irresolvable. (see for instance http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2016#1413495 thread)
1420893;1457018317;assbot;Logged on 23-02-2016 08:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-02-2016#1413406 << basically us "college" chumpatron still experimenting with "what's the lowest qty of candy bar we give the cattle to keep getting the sweet sweet usg funds for them. like, out of the 100k per capita we get in fed funny money, what's the least we could dole out to the maggots in whose name the whole scheme is run ? maybe -100`000 in paper and $
1420894;1457018346;mircea_popescu;jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?
1420895;1457018354;mircea_popescu;i'm just curious for my own culture here.
1420896;1457018387;jurov;yes, surely all the HTML5 and older(like DOM) functionality
1420897;1457019267;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420806 << ironically, the shit they're talking about is some of the harshest, least touchty feely shit out there. ballet, seriously ? have these people EVEN SEEN a ballerina in their life ?
1420898;1457019267;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 07:07:25; BingoBoingo: It also spots a lot of failures enrolled in class
1420899;1457019293;mircea_popescu;chick's tougher than coffin nails, right in there with the she-marine. heck, they still use beatings to this day to loosen the girlies up.
1420900;1457019318;mircea_popescu;like it or not, the tendons won't give unless you get physical. you can talk yourself hoarse, it dun do anything.
1420901;1457019452;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << cascadia coming to the mp notions of "What is art" i take it ?
1420902;1457019452;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 08:53:24; ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"
1420903;1457019473;jurov;now something for lisp afficionados: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/225 #TheShitJurovDoes #BackdooringEulora
1420904;1457019475;assbot;this simple function always segfaults - at least on linux amd64 (#225) · Issues · Embeddable Common-Lisp / ECL · GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1F3WH )
1420905;1457019535;mircea_popescu;waitwut
1420906;1457019627;jurov;i came around this in course of embedding lisp in eulora client
1420907;1457019642;jurov;such backdoor would be very convenied, dontcha think
1420908;1457019648;mircea_popescu;jurov dude you trolled me ? i mistook eul- to be a function defined in eulora space pinged DianaComan about it lmao
1420909;1457019652;jurov;*convenient
1420910;1457019673;jurov;hahaha
1420911;1457019681;mircea_popescu;god damn...
1420912;1457019753;mircea_popescu;jurov apparently it was already reported. kochmanski says 159 (fixed 16.1.2)
1420913;1457019758;mircea_popescu;LAME SHIT
1420914;1457019845;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420851 << BingoBoingo if that was you, and it was, you linked to an article of mine that said nothing re: miners...
1420915;1457019845;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 14:41:49; BingoBoingo: Win http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/0350241/incident-raises-concerns-about-a-more-formal-spec-for-bitcoin
1420916;1457019848;mircea_popescu;ftr anacam was as close to driving culture as the times and potus aspire to be and occasionally manage.
1420917;1457019875;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420865 << lolwut
1420918;1457019875;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:06:36; mircea_popescu: they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895
1420919;1457019895;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420867 << it's a laptop, i don't care if it takes a week
1420920;1457019895;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:13; jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.
1420921;1457019907;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420869 << 1/2 tb of ssd
1420922;1457019907;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:49; jurov: or do you have some $secretsuperfast swap device?
1420923;1457019928;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420874 << does mircea_popescu remember what happens when you use a profiler ?
1420924;1457019928;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:09:58; mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?
1420925;1457019936;mircea_popescu;shush, you.
1420926;1457019937;asciilifeform;(10-50x runtime & space)
1420927;1457019938;asciilifeform;l0l
1420928;1457019984;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420876 << many children cry into books, this is normal. but now there is 'advocacy!11111'
1420929;1457019984;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:12:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.
1420930;1457020043;mircea_popescu;let them cry into their fiction books like normal people.
1420931;1457020089;mircea_popescu;romanian school has a whole curricula in literature dedicated to making the kiddies cry. this is well and good and the ~only way.
1420932;1457020122;asciilifeform;i recall,
1420933;1457020124;asciilifeform;!s fefeleaga
1420934;1457020125;assbot;17 results for 'fefeleaga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fefeleaga
1420935;1457020141;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420831 << holy shit.
1420936;1457020141;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 13:12:11; asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661 << interesting
1420937;1457020143;jurov;re: duplicate bugreport.. perhaps i envied you being target of lizard hitler pranks, and imagined myself finally being targeted
1420938;1457020159;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420889 << mega-unsurprise.
1420939;1457020159;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:17:37; jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question
1420940;1457020161;mircea_popescu;which one of you has the miserably poor taste of impersonating the dead woman ?
1420941;1457020172;asciilifeform;i was wondering about that ^
1420942;1457020245;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420894 << the thing is larger than just about any os, possibly even microshit's, and who the fuck knows or whether it is even knowable.
1420943;1457020245;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:19:06; mircea_popescu: jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?
1420944;1457020255;mircea_popescu;no but on second pass this is actually correct, isn't it. ~I~ have been breaking the protocol with that design, indiscutably.
1420945;1457020255;asciilifeform;quite possibly most of it is not even identifiable mass.
1420946;1457020259;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla you seen this ?
1420947;1457020311;kakobrekla;seen what ?
1420948;1457020360;mircea_popescu;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661
1420949;1457020361;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TULYvP )
1420950;1457020398;kakobrekla;yes i have seen it, nothing i can do about it.
1420951;1457020410;mircea_popescu;so basically, yeah bla bla, miners can force "either doublepay or never pay" dilemma, but ~not on everyone~. only on derps who, like mp, actually publish the whole story.
1420952;1457020429;mircea_popescu;listen kakobrekla can we modify the way bitbet works to actually satisfy this ? something like
1420953;1457020433;mircea_popescu;hm.
1420954;1457020476;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they can still blacklist addrs
1420955;1457020479;mircea_popescu;say paid out bets are published as now, but proposed bets only show first 4 chars of the address, and only first two digits of the payment. except if under 0.01 it's just replaced with D
1420956;1457020484;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform which ?
1420957;1457020531;mircea_popescu;and yes, publish a sha of the whole list as-is somewhere on page also. so people can then verify at tyhe end.
1420958;1457020540;mircea_popescu;tho prolly this should have a secret salt also.
1420959;1457020547;mircea_popescu;jesus cryptomoney is tough.
1420960;1457020569;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: whichever they happen to dislike.
1420961;1457020575;asciilifeform;problem remains unsolved
1420962;1457020582;mircea_popescu;as the commenter says, this does nothing for bitcoin, merely for bitbet.
1420963;1457020671;mircea_popescu;of course large payments remain a problem - not so many double digit btc moving around to an address with the following 4 chars.
1420964;1457020707;asciilifeform;aha.
1420965;1457020716;asciilifeform;and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.
1420966;1457020726;asciilifeform;i can think of 1,001 variations on this theme.
1420967;1457020743;mircea_popescu;gah.
1420968;1457020760;mircea_popescu;as usual - centralist power is the enemy of free commerce.
1420969;1457020764;asciilifeform;the solution to toddler-with-machinegun is not moar armour.
1420970;1457020768;mircea_popescu;who knew how fucking deep in the rules of the world this principle is baked
1420971;1457020807;kakobrekla;i find the comment from 'sturle' much more interesting.
1420972;1457020825;mircea_popescu;reading
1420973;1457020916;mircea_popescu;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47712
1420974;1457020917;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1K9lD )
1420975;1457020978;mircea_popescu;no argument that it ~could~ be a so and so node. all sorts of things could be all sorts of other things. like the moon landing photos could be fake, and so on.
1420976;1457020983;mircea_popescu;there's no argument to be had with a could.
1420977;1457021198;mircea_popescu;!up sturles
1420978;1457021201;mircea_popescu;hola.
1420979;1457021206;sturles;HepP!
1420980;1457021214;mircea_popescu;!gettrust assbot sturles
1420981;1457021214;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user sturles: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=sturles | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sturles/
1420982;1457021230;mircea_popescu;you have enough trust, whenever you want to speak here you should pm assbot "!up" and decrypt the dpaste.
1420983;1457021240;mircea_popescu;give it back to him with !v <contents>
1420984;1457021261;sturles;OK!
1420985;1457021264;kakobrekla;i asked him to join to answer the questions from qntra
1420986;1457021265;kakobrekla;>If you are proposing that you are actually running a node which keeps all 0-fee txn for a week plus, I very much would like to know what machine are you running, and when's the last time you realised what an incredible DoS mechanism this is.
1420987;1457021270;mircea_popescu;aha!
1420988;1457021297;sturles;I don't keep them all.  Only the ones with the highest priority.-
1420989;1457021309;mircea_popescu;so how long is the longest you keep a txn ?
1420990;1457021321;sturles;I don't have a time limit.
1420991;1457021336;mircea_popescu;so then how does A2 have a lower priority than A1 ?
1420992;1457021357;sturles;Transactions are evicted by fee or priority alone.
1420993;1457021367;mircea_popescu;right ?
1420994;1457021405;sturles;It doesn't matter if A2 has higher or lower priority than A1.  As long as A1 is in my mempool, a tx spending any of A1's inputs will be rejected.
1420995;1457021416;fluffypony;it's a davout: https://twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/705415833833619456
1420996;1457021422;fluffypony;and "Galvin" Andresen
1420997;1457021439;mircea_popescu;sturles if you keep 0fee txn without time limit, you are necessarily running on a machine with infinite ram.
1420998;1457021446;mircea_popescu;if there IS a time limit, what is it.
1420999;1457021458;sturles;Right now my mempool has:   "mempoolminpriority": 142186611.6926576,
1421000;1457021471;mircea_popescu;and how do you calculate the priority ?
1421001;1457021490;sturles;Which means that every tx with priority below 142186611.6926576 will be thrown out of the priority pool, and into the fee based pool.
1421002;1457021501;mircea_popescu;and if it's a 0fee tx, thrown out altogether ?
1421003;1457021543;sturles;Standard priority calculations.  size of input * age of input for all inputs, then divided by the size of the transaction.
1421004;1457021549;sturles;Size in bytes.
1421005;1457021555;sturles;Size of inputs in BTC.
1421006;1457021560;mircea_popescu;right. by this calculation, the tx in question would not have remained in your pool.
1421007;1457021577;mircea_popescu;if you recall kakobrekla at the time it was merely broadcast and "not yet included" (in the public version of the blockchain), it had a very low priority.
1421008;1457021595;sturles;0 fee tx are thrown out if the priority is lower than what is required.  Currently 142186611.6926576.
1421009;1457021601;kakobrekla;why would it have low priority?
1421010;1457021605;mircea_popescu;sturles this one was never 100mn.
1421011;1457021649;sturles;OK.  I don't know anything about the tx in question.  How old were the inputs?
1421012;1457021668;sturles;Size in BTC is in satishi.  Age in number of confirmations.
1421013;1457021674;sturles;*satoshi
1421014;1457021706;kakobrekla;txid de9bc173174f5ae97e7fe0d2e171647cade189c76f9cbe48f37494c973aca2e4
1421015;1457021714;mircea_popescu;^
1421016;1457021790;sturles;priority = sum(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes
1421017;1457021837;kakobrekla;and just sum the discrete inputs ages ?
1421018;1457021850;mircea_popescu;no, sum the product
1421019;1457021889;sturles;The transaction has one 3 month old input of 15.898 BTC.  This alone may be enough to push the priority high enough.
1421020;1457021896;kakobrekla;anyway, sturles is giving us his current mempoolminpriority, which doesnt mean it was the same a week ago.
1421021;1457021913;mircea_popescu;yeah but for practical reasons doesn't also vary too much, or you get drowned.
1421022;1457021936;mircea_popescu;in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.
1421023;1457021955;mircea_popescu;ie, 84% of txn in the mempool had a higher priority.
1421024;1457021960;mircea_popescu;of the ~50mb mempool, that is.
1421025;1457021992;sturles;Mu mempool is 1 GB with 300MB reserved for high priority..
1421026;1457022003;mircea_popescu;(obviously because no protocol there is no actual definition of "mempool size" other than rough consensus, but wehartevers)
1421027;1457022019;sturles;It isn't full now, btw.
1421028;1457022035;mircea_popescu;yeah, mempool is low now for some reason, across the board.
1421029;1457022056;mircea_popescu;since ~yesterday, fell of a cliff. who knows.
1421030;1457022064;sturles;There was a spam attack, which stopped.
1421031;1457022075;mircea_popescu;that ~could~ be the explanation, sure.
1421032;1457022172;mircea_popescu;for the curious, mempool was as high as 80mb during february, but recently it's ~8 or so.
1421033;1457022188;mircea_popescu;(recently ie, in march)
1421034;1457022394;sturles;Where is this number from?  Mine is:
1421035;1457022396;sturles;  "size": 41322,
1421036;1457022396;sturles;  "bytes": 424008174,
1421037;1457022396;sturles;  "usage": 913135280,
1421038;1457022401;kakobrekla;according to some; http://i.imgur.com/BdJFEc1.png
1421039;1457022402;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21K85Yz )
1421040;1457022454;mircea_popescu;sturles from my own nodes' estimation of what the "mempool" is currently.
1421041;1457022467;mircea_popescu;built on the basis of what other nodes advertise as txn
1421042;1457022500;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla haha is that yours ?
1421043;1457022506;kakobrekla;no
1421044;1457022511;mircea_popescu;nuts.
1421045;1457022533;kakobrekla;its what 'tradeblock' reports
1421046;1457022629;mircea_popescu;check that out, "TradeBlock serves financial institutions with execution and analysis tools that capitalize on the potential of blockchain technologies."
1421047;1457022877;sturles;By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days.  A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time.  I'm sure there are an infinite amount of them..
1421048;1457022910;*;kakobrekla has to run bbl
1421049;1457022917;mircea_popescu;it's a cheap hack, made sense at the time
1421050;1457022919;mircea_popescu;(2010 ?)
1421051;1457022981;sturles;Back in 2010 there was no eviction in place.  Valid transactions stayed in the mempool until mined.  Various eviction strategies have been tried for the last couple of years.
1421052;1457023011;mircea_popescu;i don't recall when this "3 day" thing got introduced, but longer than coupla years ago i think.
1421053;1457023013;mircea_popescu;anyway.
1421054;1457023044;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/03/the-laymans-guide-to-salvaging-bitcoins-in-the-era-of-chicom-miner-monopoly/
1421055;1457023230;mircea_popescu;!up sturles
1421056;1457023251;mircea_popescu;anyway, if you're curious, what trb is contemplating to eventually do is a ring buffer with a per-kb fee only as the criteria.
1421057;1457023256;mircea_popescu;been discussed a coupla times in the logs.
1421058;1457023452;sturles;0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB.  When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
1421059;1457023482;mircea_popescu;yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer
1421060;1457023495;mircea_popescu;also miserably implemented, but then again it is prb.
1421061;1457023518;sturles;There is no priority included in the calculations for mempool eviction in 0.12.
1421062;1457023530;mircea_popescu;right, there is that part.
1421063;1457023581;mircea_popescu;i mean i just said, i'd take 5k for cash right now.
1421064;1457023582;mircea_popescu;oops.
1421065;1457024643;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform btw im getting report yes ?
1421066;1457024711;asciilifeform;aha!
1421067;1457024747;asciilifeform;as soon as i get back into cockpit actually.
1421068;1457024847;mircea_popescu;cool deal.
1421069;1457024950;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421058 << why do this in bursts ?!
1421070;1457024950;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB.  When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
1421071;1457024954;asciilifeform;why not continuously.
1421072;1457024965;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421059 << aha, this
1421073;1457024965;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:42; mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer
1421074;1457024982;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421063 << l0l
1421075;1457024982;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i mean i just said, i'd take 5k for cash right now.
1421076;1457025007;mircea_popescu;two leaf clovers, don't get too excited.
1421077;1457025024;asciilifeform;aw.
1421078;1457025084;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421047 << the mempool system is screamingly idiotic, since day 1
1421079;1457025084;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 16:34:37; sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days.  A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time.  I'm sure there are an infinite amou
1421080;1457025129;asciilifeform;incidentally, wtf does prb think it's doing re: tx fee ordering, when it ACCEPTS MOTHERFUCKING ORPHANS !??!!!
1421081;1457025145;asciilifeform;srsly, orphan-with-fee counts the same as real-thing-with-fee ?!
1421082;1457025172;*;mircea_popescu notices BingoBoingo's sig starts with ADD
1421083;1457025200;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform shush you, it's not supposed to make algebra-2-sense. it's from the statistics-and-citizensheep textbook.
1421084;1457025220;asciilifeform;uhuh.
1421085;1457025234;mircea_popescu;do you feel included yet ?
1421086;1457025249;asciilifeform;envaginated.
1421087;1457025257;mircea_popescu;strangely, that doesn't seem to ever count.
1421088;1457025271;asciilifeform;hm?
1421089;1457025274;mircea_popescu;somehow, the fact that any system trying to "include everyone" necessarily excludes the best and brightest is never a concern.
1421090;1457025290;mircea_popescu;da fuck is with these idiots. "oh, there's fewer of those" o ya ? guess what - there's fewer of niggers and jews, also.
1421091;1457025303;asciilifeform;uncle al beat this subj to death.
1421092;1457025310;asciilifeform;!s officially sad
1421093;1457025311;assbot;3 results for 'officially sad' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=officially+sad
1421094;1457025313;mircea_popescu;so he did.
1421095;1457025314;asciilifeform;hm
1421096;1457025321;asciilifeform;anyway it's in the collected al.
1421097;1457025323;asciilifeform;riotously.
1421098;1457025344;mircea_popescu;i claim no ownership interest in the notion. it's so outrageous a tree somewhere in the forest prolly said somethingat some point.
1421099;1457025387;asciilifeform;in unrelated nyooz, i happen to have carried out a successful experiment re: depoetteringization of a modern gentoo
1421100;1457025402;asciilifeform;will assemble, some time next week prolly, a cookbook, if anyone is interested.
1421101;1457025414;asciilifeform;should also be, theoretically, applicable to bsd
1421102;1457025420;asciilifeform;or any other 100% source-based animal.
1421103;1457025460;asciilifeform;if it is not clear, i am speaking not simply of systemd removal, but dbus et al.
1421104;1457025473;asciilifeform;the whole tumourous affair.
1421105;1457025499;mircea_popescu;o yes please.
1421106;1457025504;asciilifeform;in such a way that the ports tree remains untangled, and the crud is not constantly knocking at the door to come back in.
1421107;1457025516;mircea_popescu;i will have the harem hum your nick during sex for a week in recognition.
1421108;1457025520;asciilifeform;l0lz
1421109;1457025855;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet
1421110;1457025856;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TSWdSu )
1421111;1457025909;mircea_popescu;i think i'll wait for the whole thing ?
1421112;1457025917;asciilifeform;it took a good bit of sweat, to derive this kill list.
1421113;1457025920;asciilifeform;and it works. 100%.
1421114;1457025940;asciilifeform;trinque, ben_vulpes, phf, et al ^^
1421115;1457025957;mircea_popescu;yay. will defo test it. say when to do so.
1421116;1457025975;asciilifeform;now use flags only function under gentoo. but the way they work is to translate into particular configure args when building
1421117;1457025984;asciilifeform;and so could be, theoretically, used on bsd
1421118;1457025988;asciilifeform;or a future v-based distro.
1421119;1457026013;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: can test now. everything else install per handbook.
1421120;1457026017;asciilifeform;(but eschew grub2.)
1421121;1457026037;mircea_popescu;so rather than a preliminary it's actually the thing ?
1421122;1457026040;mircea_popescu;!up sturles
1421123;1457026057;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is the chicken in the recipe, yes.
1421124;1457026058;sturles;asciilifeform: Because it takes some time to do it for large mempools, I suppose.  I think child fees are taken into account as well, but not sure about that.
1421125;1457026065;asciilifeform;whole thing would consist of a step-by-step cookbook.
1421126;1457026081;asciilifeform;but this is really all ~i~ would have needed.
1421127;1457026091;mircea_popescu;sturles what was that otp thing ?
1421128;1457026145;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-february-2016-statement/ << and jurov 8335 s.qntr added.
1421129;1457026146;assbot;Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnOBny )
1421130;1457026160;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the given magic will take you to, e.g., fully-functioning x11 emacs, irc clients, etc. that build sans dbus.
1421131;1457026168;sturles;My gmail key is signing only.  Not useable for encryption.  Made it just for #bitcoin-otc.
1421132;1457026174;asciilifeform;even wwwtrons.
1421133;1457026188;mircea_popescu;sturles that's kind-of a problem then, you can't voice here.
1421134;1457026216;sturles;asciilifeform: getrawmempool true reports for every transaction: descendantcount, descendantsize and descendantfees, indicating that it at least knows about it.
1421135;1457026240;asciilifeform;sturles: what is this about ?
1421136;1457026273;mircea_popescu;apparently his wot key is defective, can't decrypt assbot pad
1421137;1457026279;sturles;18:09 <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421058  << why do this in bursts ?!
1421138;1457026279;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB.  When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
1421139;1457026316;asciilifeform;sturles: what do you mean, 'at least knows about it' ??
1421140;1457026327;sturles;I should change my key in #bitcoin-otc to the sturle@bitmynt.no key..
1421141;1457026345;asciilifeform;btw mircea_popescu the gentoo was tested on a x60 tp.
1421142;1457026351;asciilifeform;which is now very happy.
1421143;1457026351;sturles;It knows about the fee rate of the children of unconfirmed transactions.
1421144;1457026364;sturles;Helps for child-pays-for-parent in mining.
1421145;1457026375;mircea_popescu;oh ffs.
1421146;1457026388;asciilifeform;sturles: holy fuck, do you understand how a tx that is not linkable to ACTUAL BLOCK is a ~work of fiction~ ??!!!
1421147;1457026400;asciilifeform;!s orphan tx
1421148;1457026400;assbot;10 results for 'orphan tx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=orphan+tx
1421149;1457026402;mircea_popescu;fucking evil bs, child pays for parent, let's invent OTHER ways to import meaningless state into bitcoin and fuck it all up
1421150;1457026406;sturles;If a transaction pays too low fees to get included, and you spend an output of the transaction with a high fee, a miner may want to mine both.
1421151;1457026456;asciilifeform;sturles: you do not see the basic problem with taking a tx on faith ?
1421152;1457026463;asciilifeform;for whatever purpose.
1421153;1457026473;mircea_popescu;maybe if wot-ed nodes...
1421154;1457026474;sturles;People spend unconfirmed outputs all the time.  Bitcoin Core even does it by itself, if the output was generated by yourself.
1421155;1457026489;mircea_popescu;sturles yes, and THAT IS A BUG IN PRB.
1421156;1457026491;asciilifeform;sturles: trb WON'T ACCEPT a tx with even ONE unconfirmed input.
1421157;1457026493;asciilifeform;do you know this ?
1421158;1457026497;asciilifeform;i did this.
1421159;1457026503;asciilifeform;try to understand WHY.
1421160;1457026506;sturles;We are not talking about orphans here, since we have the parent in the mempool.
1421161;1457026525;asciilifeform;if it is in the mempool, it is not a parent !
1421162;1457026526;mircea_popescu;this argument has some merit, but it's really contrary to bitcoin.
1421163;1457026529;asciilifeform;it is a fetus.
1421164;1457026553;asciilifeform;it might BECOME a parent, ~when it grows up~
1421165;1457026555;sturles;Well, you may call it a fetus.  A miner can choose to give birth to both in the same block.
1421166;1457026556;asciilifeform;(gets in a block.)
1421167;1457026573;mircea_popescu;yeah, a miner might choose to do all sorts of patently idiotic shit.
1421168;1457026577;mircea_popescu;this is part of the problem.
1421169;1457026582;asciilifeform;sturles: for 'mights', go to a church.
1421170;1457026585;asciilifeform;trb does not deal in mights.
1421171;1457026586;mircea_popescu;that we allow the miners to do way too much stuff.
1421172;1457026595;asciilifeform;^
1421173;1457026631;sturles;It is in the design.  As long as the order is correct (perent before child in the block), it is accepted.
1421174;1457026640;asciilifeform;sturles: do you know what an ~algorithmic complexity attack~ is ?
1421175;1457026671;asciilifeform;allowing chained tx to operate as a unit, in a node, opens you up to one.
1421176;1457026686;asciilifeform;in fact this is happening EVERY MOTHERFUCKING DAY
1421177;1457026694;mircea_popescu;quite.
1421178;1457026707;sturles;Yes.  It isn't verey complicated.  Really.  As long as A is found before B in the blockchain, the order is AB.  Even if A and B are in the same block.
1421179;1457026722;mircea_popescu;this nonsense is not long of this world, sturles
1421180;1457026762;sturles;I am not saying it is the right way to do it, just that it is how it is.
1421181;1457026764;mircea_popescu;there's no way to write a sane specification for bitcoin that avoids saying specifically "if input tx is not found in a block, tx is invalid"
1421182;1457026780;mircea_popescu;yeah, some noncompliant miners are currently doing this, among many other insanities they do.
1421183;1457026782;deedbot-;[Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-february-2016-statement/
1421184;1457026784;asciilifeform;sturles: it is pointedly NOT 'how it is' in trb.
1421185;1457026789;asciilifeform;i killed this idiocy with my own hands.
1421186;1457026791;mircea_popescu;no argument there. but it is not ok merely because some idiots do it atm.
1421187;1457026792;asciilifeform;and it's staying dead.
1421188;1457026829;asciilifeform;the miners are free to collect clumps of tx off the street and find, at their own idiot expense, validly linked chains thereof.
1421189;1457026833;asciilifeform;but they do not HAVE to.
1421190;1457026841;asciilifeform;they are doing this for no particularly good reason.
1421191;1457026868;asciilifeform;could far more easily declare, as trb does, 'tx is only valid if inputs are confirmed in existing block.'
1421192;1457026950;asciilifeform;and it would have been proper for the protocol to forbid the lunacy by proclaiming that a tx cannot rely on inputs IN SAME BLOCK AS IT.
1421193;1457026965;asciilifeform;but this was not done, because satoshi smoked dope.
1421194;1457026966;mircea_popescu;not too late for that, either.
1421195;1457027027;asciilifeform;this is called a complexity vulnerability, and presently i search for these, elsewhere and far away, for a living.
1421196;1457027216;sturles;It isn't that complex.  The uxto set is updated as the block is parsed.  The inputs of the sibling will be in the utxo set when it gets to it.  It only makes some optimizations somewhat harder.
1421197;1457027269;asciilifeform;sturles: you do not know what computational complexity refers to ??!
1421198;1457027276;asciilifeform;'it isn't the complex' !?!?!!
1421199;1457027283;asciilifeform;that is a thing that one can say about an algo now ?!
1421200;1457027334;asciilifeform;now i am tempted to say to client, when he asks for theta, 'it isn't that complex'
1421201;1457027408;mircea_popescu;eh simmer down eh
1421202;1457027444;sturles;Yes, and I don't think this is much more complex than requiring each utxo to be in a different block than the one it is spent from.
1421203;1457028003;asciilifeform;!up sturles
1421204;1457028215;asciilifeform;see, requiring inputs-in-old-blocks makes verification O(1).
1421205;1457028224;asciilifeform;tight-bound.
1421206;1457028233;asciilifeform;not doing so, gives you a worst-case of O(N^2) !
1421207;1457028254;asciilifeform;(every shot requires you to look at every other)
1421208;1457028289;asciilifeform;this would be an 'academic' matter, were it not for the fact that the enemy is making full use of it.
1421209;1457028300;asciilifeform;for ~6 mo. now.
1421210;1457028315;asciilifeform;!s spamola
1421211;1457028316;assbot;6 results for 'spamola' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spamola
1421212;1457028324;sturles;No, the order must be strict.  I.e. the the parent must be confirmed _before_ the sibling.
1421213;1457028341;sturles;If the sibling is _after_ the parent in the block, the block is invalid.
1421214;1457028374;asciilifeform;sturles: how does your node decide if a tx is to be relayed ?
1421215;1457028387;asciilifeform;(assume signature is valid)
1421216;1457028414;sturles;I use normal rules for relaying transactions.
1421217;1457028430;asciilifeform;what does this mean ?
1421218;1457028500;sturles;I haven't looked closely at the code.  My node behaves like any other node would.  Except it keeps a part of the mempool protected from fee based eviction based on priority.
1421219;1457028544;asciilifeform;sturles: i recommend to look at the code, you're in for some surprises.
1421220;1457029400;trinque;asciilifeform │ mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet << neato. -pulseaudio is another good one
1421221;1457029402;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TSWdSu )
1421222;1457029507;trinque;(nobody cancelled dmix!!!111!!!)
1421223;1457029715;asciilifeform;trinque: it doesn't try to slip in
1421224;1457029726;asciilifeform;largely because everything that uses it, gets killed by the flag set shown.
1421225;1457029765;trinque;nice
1421226;1457029953;asciilifeform;ultimately, a sane linux - to the extent such a thing is physically possible - will look like a gentoo with a vtronic portage.
1421227;1457030007;asciilifeform;where, e.g., mircea_popescu can go, 'emerge ben_vulpes' and get a set.
1421228;1457030085;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> what does this mean ? << that he's using prb and never looked inside for sheer horror
1421229;1457030101;mircea_popescu;it's what it usually means when someone says they're using "normal" anything in bitcoin
1421230;1457030112;asciilifeform;ugh
1421231;1457030130;mircea_popescu;o shit, the very next line!
1421232;1457030136;mircea_popescu;hey, i swear i hadn't read it when i said.
1421233;1457030525;asciilifeform;http://badpenguins.com/gentoo-build-test << for archaeologists.
1421234;1457030526;assbot;Gentoo Stage1/Stage3 Building: Fact -vs- Fiction ... ( http://bit.ly/21H9eDG )
1421235;1457031527;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00056611 = 4.7836 BTC [-] {2} 
1421236;1457031918;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420808 << i took in the alberta ballet's nutcracker in december, which is the local company. there were no more than 3 of the cast who could actually dance. the rest were trying to 'fake it till you make it', which drove me up the wall, particularly when the mouth-breathing audience took it upon themselves to give the sorry lot a standing o.
1421237;1457031918;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 07:09:35; phf: "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
1421238;1457031942;pete_dushenski;made me long to see a real ballet. i think i'll wait until the royal winnipeg is in town next.
1421239;1457031988;*;trinque has dated two ballerinas
1421240;1457031995;trinque;the ones that take it seriously are *jacked*
1421241;1457032051;*;pete_dushenski used to dance ! lifts were a pubescent boy's dream cum true.
1421242;1457032424;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << hahaha i had this exact same debate with fillie at guggenheim bilbao over serra's 'the matter of time'. she fucking hated it, i defended it, but probably to play foil as much as anything. this was a few years ago however, though i do still see his works once or twice a year in toronto's pearson airport ('tilted spheres'). i will grant them their ability to bre
1421243;1457032424;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 08:53:24; ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"
1421244;1457032424;pete_dushenski;p a space both visually and auditorially.
1421245;1457032486;pete_dushenski;as ever, he with the gold calls the shots as to 'what is art'
1421246;1457033400;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420965 << in my experience, as detailed in latest contravex, this can be worked around.
1421247;1457033400;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 15:58:36; asciilifeform: and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.
1421248;1457033477;pete_dushenski;granted that it's a bit of a pain, and also granting that it's hardly a scalable solution, it does do the trick.
1421249;1457033523;pete_dushenski;this doesn't improve bitbet's position, nor its aims for transparency, but normally transacting users who previously received 'tainted' coins do have recourse.
1421250;1457033579;asciilifeform;worked around ?!
1421251;1457033593;asciilifeform;for one thing, the ~existing~ bets have addrs published.
1421252;1457033628;pete_dushenski;i'm not discussing bets that haven't been resolved
1421253;1457033739;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: it remains trivial to track down and target the addrs ~from~ which bb pays out.
1421254;1457033762;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420833 << not sure how transparency was 'unthinking' but i had largely the same train of thought last night as i was composing 'salvage' piece (ie. hashes, first few characters).
1421255;1457033762;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 13:12:31; asciilifeform: 'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking tran
1421256;1457033788;*;pete_dushenski wasn't he of poor nickname taste, ftr.
1421257;1457033795;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: all of the proposed 'mask' solutions remind me of the 'bear-proof suit'
1421258;1457033799;asciilifeform;!s bear suit
1421259;1457033800;assbot;3 results for 'bear suit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bear+suit
1421260;1457033828;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-04-2015#1095271 << thread.
1421261;1457033828;assbot;Logged on 10-04-2015 19:15:42; ascii_field: Chillum: the entire exercise is what i call a 'bear suit'
1421262;1457033886;asciilifeform;or, as uncle al called it, 'plugging the wrong end of the funnel.'
1421263;1457033914;asciilifeform;some problems are not meant to be solved ~at the receiving end~
1421264;1457033940;asciilifeform;BUT RATHER are to be solved by finding and catching the problemator, and smashing him into a concrete wall repeatedly until the problem goes away.
1421265;1457033979;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, in particular, seems to understand this principle very well.
1421266;1457034008;asciilifeform;perhaps even now he is looking for a suitable concrete wall.
1421267;1457034028;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00056675 = 13.3753 BTC [+] {3} 
1421268;1457034104;pete_dushenski;http://i.imgur.com/NxwksNr.webm << skull/lycra suit isn't unlike bear suit.
1421269;1457034107;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsCklJ )
1421270;1457035800;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: when I hear "fits in head" >> http://cdn2.thegloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Knowledge.gif
1421271;1457035864;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> ... << BingoBoingo if that was you, and it was, you linked to an article of mine that said nothing re: miners... << Known, but gotta get people reading because lord knows /. story approvers don't
1421272;1457036037;ben_vulpes;this conflict is rooted in the addr reuse thread.
1421273;1457036101;ben_vulpes;while "there's nothing wrong with addr reuse" made sense once upon a time, the new regime is that "tell people where you're sleeping, and they'll come murder you there".
1421274;1457036404;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: thoughts on the x60 vs x61?
1421275;1457036915;punkman;ben_vulpes: iirc x61 doesn't libreboot
1421276;1457037914;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: theoretically, x60, because coreboot. but turns out that coreboot is halfbaked.
1421277;1457037932;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00056611 = 8.0388 BTC [-] {2} 
1421278;1457037957;asciilifeform;see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-02-2016#1417976 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-02-2016#1418199
1421279;1457037957;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 04:23:06; asciilifeform: libreboot just sort of runs it at mid-rpm at all times.
1421280;1457037957;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 16:55:32; asciilifeform: so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.
1421281;1457037995;asciilifeform;i eventually put back the heathen bios on the x60, BUT i ida'd it and nop'd out the imbecile nic whitelist
1421282;1457038009;asciilifeform;(lenovo REALLY doesn't want you to use your own nic)
1421283;1457038326;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: x60 is an amazing box (get the 64-bit last rev., 2GHz) but i must warn, it suffers from a barfalicious - by modern standards - lcd.
1421284;1457038326;assbot;AMAZING COMPANY!
1421285;1457038359;asciilifeform;sata ssd will work, but limited to sata-ii (1.5Gb/s) freq.
1421286;1457039474;gernika;I finally have a fully synced trb node, after starting on the project almost a year ago.
1421287;1457039629;pete_dushenski;gernika: congrats!
1421288;1457039638;gernika;thanks pete_dushenski
1421289;1457039709;pete_dushenski;you persevered where many didn't, which is really the only way to live.
1421290;1457040098;shinohai;gg gernika \o/
1421291;1457040244;gernika;and if anyone is curious what took me so long - catastrophic hard disk failure, among other things.
1421292;1457041136;shinohai;I've had that, theft, and just yesterday a db crash. Yet I soldier on.
1421293;1457041224;trinque;shinohai: home/car/other ?
1421294;1457041488;shinohai;trinque: home, someone busted in my the side door to my home office, got a lappy and a few trivial items.
1421295;1457041540;trinque;ah, sorry to hear that.
1421296;1457041635;shinohai;No big deal besides the lost work, thankfully the airgapped computer with my gpg keys was in my bedroom at the time.
1421297;1457041667;shinohai;I hope they booted into Arch and were like "dafuq did I just steal?"
1421298;1457041702;trinque;heh, that's what I imagine the fucks that stole my 4U doing.
1421299;1457041712;trinque;"This space heater sucks!11!1!"
1421300;1457041773;shinohai;kek
1421301;1457042553;danielpbarron;!up jabular
1421302;1457042593;danielpbarron;oh trinque thanks for adding my blog :D
1421303;1457043120;shinohai;I read that this morning danielpbarron - nice!
1421304;1457043300;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00056751 = 18.8981 BTC [+] {2} 
1421305;1457043459;trinque;danielpbarron: yw
1421306;1457044347;felipelalli;deedbot-, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1effa68e-6a36-4586-ad55-504c15f8bbd7/?raw=true
1421307;1457044349;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2Fhgc )
1421308;1457044352;deedbot-;rejected: 1
1421309;1457044404;felipelalli;deedbot- does not like me :)
1421310;1457044535;trinque;not sure why that happened.
1421311;1457044579;trinque;felipelalli: I'll look in a bit and fix whatever's stopping that and put it through for you.
1421312;1457044793;felipelalli;trinque, thank you very much. I guess is something related with UTF-8 again because in my browser I had to manually set to UTF-8 encoding when ?raw=true
1421313;1457044802;felipelalli;maybe a problem with http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/
1421314;1457044803;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2GpAu )
1421315;1457044821;felipelalli;wrong header or something
1421316;1457044878;felipelalli;the header is "Content-Type:text/plain" but could be "Content-Type:text/plain?charset=utf-8"
1421317;1457044887;danielpbarron;deedbot- http://danielpbarron.com/felipelalli.asc.txt
1421318;1457044888;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2GBj0 )
1421319;1457044889;deedbot-;imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
1421320;1457044898;danielpbarron;deedbot- http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1effa68e-6a36-4586-ad55-504c15f8bbd7/?raw=true
1421321;1457044899;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2Fhgc )
1421322;1457044900;deedbot-;rejected: 1
1421323;1457044957;felipelalli;deedbot-, http://pastebin.com/raw/b0aR4b6k
1421324;1457044957;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2GJ20 )
1421325;1457044958;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1421326;1457044966;felipelalli;the problem is wotpaste
1421327;1457045010;trinque;ah neato
1421328;1457045018;trinque;ben_vulpes: ^
1421329;1457045376;felipelalli;trinque, thank you!
1421330;1457045859;ben_vulpes;fascinating.
1421331;1457045861;ben_vulpes;noted, ty.
1421332;1457046390;deedbot-;[Qntra] Chinese Businesses Scavenge US Industry For Brands - http://qntra.net/2016/03/chinese-businesses-scavenge-us-industry-for-brands/
1421333;1457046472;pete_dushenski;"General Electric's efforts get out" << missing 'to'
1421334;1457046540;pete_dushenski;"appliance business have become public knowledge twice before." << this parse funny to anyone else ?
1421335;1457046599;pete_dushenski;"Following that last year "Justice" Department regulators refused permission to Swedish firm Electrolux's efforts to unburden General Electric of this line of business by acquiring it for 3.3 billion" << idem.
1421336;1457046655;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00056611 = 22.1915 BTC [-] {3} 
1421337;1457046667;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: in general, more commas plz !
1421338;1457046694;pete_dushenski;punctuation helps break up thoughts and controls reader flow
1421339;1457047483;cazalla;how's the bubs pete_dushenski ?
1421340;1457047546;pete_dushenski;cazalla: just splendid. we're in the sweet spot where he's sleeping well, eating well, can't crawl, and isn't teething :)
1421341;1457047561;cazalla;sounds like heaven!
1421342;1457047572;pete_dushenski;lol sure feels like it !
1421343;1457047596;cazalla;i'm at the stage where i'm now singing and dancing to wiggles songs at 6am
1421344;1457047613;cazalla;walking around with kids songs lyrics in muh head
1421345;1457047813;pete_dushenski;gotta have something in there eh ;)
1421346;1457048407;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: ty, should be fixed
1421347;1457048858;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Also added picture I left out
1421348;1457048982;pete_dushenski;aha
1421349;1457049025;cazalla;BingoBoingo, qntra down? down here
1421350;1457049049;BingoBoingo;cazalla: Seems up, we don't really get ddos'd as much
1421351;1457049114;cazalla;might be my end then
1421352;1457049553;*;pete_dushenski is out
1421353;1457052488;mircea_popescu;first!
1421354;1457052581;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421236 << fancy that, i've just been to an incredibly shitty "super hip" bar here. nice tall ceilings, that the idiots took to defending against with some inept iron grating to make the seats all boxed in. live band, so fucking bad it had more in common with static noise than music.
1421355;1457052581;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 19:05:18; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420808 << i took in the alberta ballet's nutcracker in december, which is the local company. there were no more than 3 of the cast who could actually dance. the rest were trying to 'fake it till you make it', which drove me up the wall, particularly when the mouth-breathing audience took it upon themselves to give the sorry lot a standing o.
1421356;1457052597;mircea_popescu;they had the unmitigated audacity to leave envelopes on the tables, "thanks for halping us continue with our art"
1421357;1457052619;mircea_popescu;i crossed out art and wrote in "you stink" and "get a job", but something tells me they won't take this to heart and execute it exactly
1421358;1457052631;mircea_popescu;just like any other derp/redditard to whom i give key life advice.
1421359;1457052633;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00056585 = 17.994 BTC [-] {2} 
1421360;1457052675;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421239 << nice going, i'm at two too! we're ballerina bros now!
1421361;1457052675;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 19:06:28; *: trinque has dated two ballerinas
1421362;1457052853;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421265 << and what exactly do you want me to do, invade china ?
1421363;1457052853;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 19:39:39; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, in particular, seems to understand this principle very well.
1421364;1457052863;mircea_popescu;the brits of 1800 are nowhere to be seen.
1421365;1457053240;asciilifeform;keccak?
1421366;1457053383;mircea_popescu;i did not say "the machine gun". i said THE BRITS.
1421367;1457053395;mircea_popescu;people other than orwell, who unlike orwell had sex and mattered in the world.
1421368;1457053609;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3965 @ 0.00056576 = 2.2432 BTC [-]
1421369;1457053869;mircea_popescu;in other news - hilary apparently attacked trump, and with a total loser speech. it's all over, he's winning
1421370;1457053892;mircea_popescu;seriously, not time to make america great again, it never ceased being great, gotta unite it more ? bitch, you lose. you lose so badly... jesus.
1421371;1457053903;mircea_popescu;i don't recall when's the last time a democrat was so culturally inept. maybe carter.
1421372;1457054395;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421273 << as alf aptly points out, merely not telling people where you sleep does nothing to chillax the band of armed murderers going about the streets.
1421373;1457054395;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 20:15:01; ben_vulpes: while "there's nothing wrong with addr reuse" made sense once upon a time, the new regime is that "tell people where you're sleeping, and they'll come murder you there".
1421374;1457054472;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421281 << the shit this guy does...
1421375;1457054472;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 20:46:35; asciilifeform: i eventually put back the heathen bios on the x60, BUT i ida'd it and nop'd out the imbecile nic whitelist
1421376;1457054630;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> in other news - hilary apparently attacked trump, and with a total loser speech. it's all over, he's winning << It was Romney, but really no diff
1421377;1457054637;mircea_popescu;in other news, they have these guts-of-figs with almods or other nuts on top sweets here. utterly delicious with a glass of vermouth
1421378;1457054647;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo wait wut ?
1421379;1457054670;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Romney attacked Trump and offered brokered convention as a solution in his speech
1421380;1457054680;mircea_popescu;nono, that's different
1421381;1457054694;BingoBoingo;i.e. Let Trump win a plurality but not majority of delegates
1421382;1457054700;BingoBoingo;Oh
1421383;1457054730;mircea_popescu;anyway, trump got 7, next ghuy what, 3 ? 4 ? it's all over. i hope to hell he a) fails to get enough delegates and then b) spits in their faces re "brokered convention" and then c) starts his OWN party on pretty much a platform of "fuck the republicans and what are these democrats supposed to even be ?"
1421384;1457054760;mircea_popescu;ideally the republican party should end by being spit in the face by "an outlier" and never recovering from it. best thing for them.
1421385;1457054778;*;mircea_popescu is wishing trump the most mp-esque of fates.
1421386;1457054853;BingoBoingo;Well, the writing's on the wall for that except for the part about such a fate being MP-esque, I mean Donald Trump-Clinton is a serial scammer.
1421387;1457054861;mircea_popescu;sadly.
1421388;1457054869;mircea_popescu;but for a better man, the correct strategy is exactly this.
1421389;1457054876;mircea_popescu;besides, the us is just about ripe for a peron of its own
1421390;1457054885;mircea_popescu;gotta become the argentina it always was, deep down.
1421391;1457054898;mircea_popescu;what's the ivanka v2's name, evita trump what ?
1421392;1457054991;BingoBoingo;This is really the fatal flaw in the whole voting business. All politicans get habituated to lying, scamming, and under delivering but these these outsiders like Donald Trump-Clinton beat them at their game because they practiced those things without the rest of the circle jerk more openly and more criminally.
1421393;1457054997;*;mircea_popescu drinks a toast to the new PJBFRAWTFATDESTB US party.
1421394;1457055001;BingoBoingo;I don't recall
1421395;1457055019;mircea_popescu;(ie, Partido Justicialista Because Fuck Republicans And What The Fuck Are These Democrats Even Supposed To Be)
1421396;1457055057;mircea_popescu;first party in history with a double fuck in the full name.
1421397;1457055077;mircea_popescu;and that only because it abstains from discussing the economy.
1421398;1457055160;*;BingoBoingo would just prefer a more honest wrecker to do the parting
1421399;1457055195;mircea_popescu;and speaking of the us and its future - so macri's been in power for a few weeks now, the peronistas (ie, criminal-socialist party) kept hewing and hawing about how they'll bring the street power to bear. today they finally called out a demonstration, it was on all the news outlet. deeply zoomed in, it looked almost like a thing. but zoomed out, it was ~50 to 100 people in a yellow box "blocking traffic". all the plaza
1421400;1457055195;mircea_popescu; de mayo wide the fuck open, more police than protestors, 50 miles of fence and 300 yards of protestor perimeter.
1421401;1457055224;mircea_popescu;an utter humiliation, i have no idea why the fuck they even did it. but it's quite clear that without the cona house they got ~nothing.
1421402;1457055312;mircea_popescu;so macri's here to stay, and the country's definitely going on sale. staples prices already up ~50 to maybe 100%, salaries frozen, all bureaucrats discussing in hushed tones their fears of which jobs will be cut... it's a pleasure.
1421403;1457055317;mircea_popescu;i hope they all fucking starve.
1421404;1457055325;mircea_popescu;oh wait, they sold the corn earlier. they're definitely starving.
1421405;1457055385;BingoBoingo;lol
1421406;1457055431;*;BingoBoingo wondering if much of the US is even planting corn this year
1421407;1457055464;mircea_popescu;well the us has the advantage that the people contain enough food for ~decade, give or take.
1421408;1457055470;mircea_popescu;they can just redistribute the fat.
1421409;1457055630;mircea_popescu;and besides, since they ended canada's oil boom with their inept russian embargo shenanigans, the great farmland to the north can get back to agriculture. great obama-hruschev common single planning organ success!
1421410;1457055737;BingoBoingo;lol pete_dushenski and nubbins' in two dog land have to dust off their hos
1421411;1457055774;mircea_popescu;actually, for the interested us scholar, the history of the comecom should be read carefully. it's not merely informative, but will be quite predictive.
1421412;1457055788;mircea_popescu;comecon*
1421413;1457055914;asciilifeform;oblig: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581098
1421414;1457055914;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2014 20:55:09; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of, in reverse: '...Идет пленум ЦК, Генеральный секретарь читает доклад: Больших успехов достигли хлеборобы Кубанщины, Ставропольщины, Смоленщины, Техасщины, Колорадщины.'
1421415;1457055924;BingoBoingo;Here they pronounce it Comicon
1421416;1457055928;mircea_popescu;lmao
1421417;1457055945;mircea_popescu;check out alf's elephantine memory!
1421418;1457055992;asciilifeform;http://www.cbm.sfks.se/pics/elephant-memory-systems.jpg << who remembers these
1421419;1457056004;*;asciilifeform still has a box full.
1421420;1457056064;asciilifeform;http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/401048414225_1.jpg << them.
1421421;1457056065;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUagFn )
1421422;1457056108;mircea_popescu;ha-ha!
1421423;1457056223;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420838 << what with the unmitigated audacity of organising "conferences" and announcing "agreements" as if anyone gave the slightest bit of a fuck.
1421424;1457056223;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 13:18:23; asciilifeform: the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.
1421425;1457056260;mircea_popescu;and these imbecile stallmans of a new generation, encouraging this nonsense. pfff.
1421426;1457056419;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421354 << sounds like the band asciilifeform and i got as far away from as possible while still able to gawk at the audience in bsas!
1421427;1457056419;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 00:49:41; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421236 << fancy that, i've just been to an incredibly shitty "super hip" bar here. nice tall ceilings, that the idiots took to defending against with some inept iron grating to make the seats all boxed in. live band, so fucking bad it had more in common with static noise than music.
1421428;1457056451;mircea_popescu;the audience took me back 20 years. back in mid 90s, there was this bar in cluj, mostly favoured by highschooler chicks that were just mediocre but liked to think themsleves special.
1421429;1457056454;BingoBoingo;More Real America Future: https://archive.is/5NU2l
1421430;1457056460;assbot;Stories from Asian parents ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUaVqu )
1421431;1457056463;ben_vulpes;remember that, asciilifeform ? we had more or less the whole upstairs to ourselves?
1421432;1457056465;mircea_popescu;they went there to overdemonstratively socialise and pretend like they're drunk and please grab my teat.
1421433;1457056471;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: aha!
1421434;1457056478;mircea_popescu;except these bovines would have counted as lamers in that ~lame set.
1421435;1457056510;ben_vulpes;i do admire the stairs-barely-bolted-to-the-wall argentine asthetic
1421436;1457056640;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: link to clitler speach?
1421437;1457056726;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421377 << today i learn that dirigibilists drink vermouth qua vermouth
1421438;1457056726;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 01:23:57; mircea_popescu: in other news, they have these guts-of-figs with almods or other nuts on top sweets here. utterly delicious with a glass of vermouth
1421439;1457056749;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes believe it or not i read it in la nacion.
1421440;1457056775;ben_vulpes;i just threw up in my mouth
1421441;1457056860;ben_vulpes;http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1875089-hillary-clinton-gano-las-primarias-en-carolina-del-sur-con-casi-el-80-de-los-votos << eso?
1421442;1457056874;mircea_popescu;mno
1421443;1457057003;mircea_popescu;http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1876161-guerra-declarada-hillary-pasa-al-ataque-y-va-por-trump << aqui
1421444;1457057004;assbot;Guerra declarada: Hillary pasa al ataque y va por Trump - 03.03.2016 - LA NACION   ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUbIYm )
1421445;1457057104;mircea_popescu;why does she look so much like a fucking bird anyway.
1421446;1457057123;mircea_popescu;this year in us election, an ogre runt and a quail on lsd.
1421447;1457057136;ben_vulpes;THE ACID TRIP NEVER ENDS
1421448;1457057302;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: what is the 'comecon'?
1421449;1457057314;mircea_popescu;derpy soviet take on economy.
1421450;1457057438;mircea_popescu;anyway, did the argentinos hallucinate the story ? never happened ?
1421451;1457057452;ben_vulpes;ask someone who cares
1421452;1457057464;mircea_popescu;was just asking in general :)
1421453;1457057503;mircea_popescu;gotta say i like the language. the derps are fucking useless - saw a fucktard SLEEPING IN THE SHOP today, banned the shop - but check out "envalentonada".
1421454;1457057506;ben_vulpes;look i'm always down to see people humiliate themselves or be humiliated but the acres of derping around before the hammer comes down isn't edging its just fucking boring
1421455;1457057558;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1421456;1457057567;ben_vulpes;the whole electoral farce
1421457;1457057573;ben_vulpes;when it coughs up lols, i'll lol
1421458;1457057575;ben_vulpes;but track it?
1421459;1457057577;ben_vulpes;noty.
1421460;1457057587;mircea_popescu;oh oh. my interest is mostly linguistic.
1421461;1457057617;ben_vulpes;MOOOOOO
1421462;1457057631;mircea_popescu;lol andrew cuomo does impressions now ?
1421463;1457057649;ben_vulpes;cuomoo
1421464;1457057655;mircea_popescu;i thought he was ~headed for jail. except you know, "tough on crime" beeeeeehehehehe towelhead forgot the keys to the toughness vault or something.
1421465;1457057687;mircea_popescu;what's his name, polly-wanna-baccarat or whatever the fuck.
1421466;1457057698;*;BingoBoingo still rather convinced Hillary rodham-clinton and donald trump-clinton are colluding
1421467;1457057733;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo incidentally - imagine the fucking ratings once trump turns the white house into a nbc studio
1421468;1457057739;mircea_popescu;"BE A PRESIDENTIAL ASSISTANT!"
1421469;1457057791;mircea_popescu;chinese'd watch that shit.
1421470;1457057791;*;BingoBoingo also kinda thought this just Trump juicing his ratings after NBC canned his struggling show
1421471;1457057834;ben_vulpes;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA << oblig
1421472;1457057835;assbot;President Camacho's State of the Union - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUd7yc )
1421473;1457057940;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12349 @ 0.00056751 = 7.0082 BTC [+] {2} 
1421474;1457057946;mircea_popescu;anyway, needless to say the argentine press utterly hates trump. "o noes, male with an ego! hilary is for kids and women! NO UNA MENOS!!!1 herpderp"
1421475;1457057989;*;mod6 just caught up on logs
1421476;1457058019;mod6;lol @ PJBFRAWTFATDESTB
1421477;1457058046;mircea_popescu;:p
1421478;1457058063;BingoBoingo;They both have the same clinton ethical disorder
1421479;1457058204;mircea_popescu;;;ud bennett
1421480;1457058205;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bennett | A bennett is an individual who is known for his skills with females both sexually and relationship wise. A bennett is typically tall with a long bl...
1421481;1457058208;mircea_popescu;so now you know.
1421482;1457058380;cazalla;BingoBoingo, do you vote?
1421483;1457058399;BingoBoingo;Sometimes for sport
1421484;1457058415;cazalla;i'd vote for Trump, just for sport
1421485;1457058449;cazalla;get a job help building that wall as well
1421486;1457058466;mircea_popescu;lol. prolly a pretty good job.
1421487;1457058530;BingoBoingo;Nah, prolly doing my sport voting for rubio or cruz in order to do my part for the brokered convention outcome
1421488;1457058598;mircea_popescu;no love for mr hairday guy ?
1421489;1457058612;cazalla;how was your winter? i just pulled the rest of the tomatoes out this morning, tfw no more summer and winter is coming
1421490;1457058614;asciilifeform;vote for Vermin!11
1421491;1457058646;punkman;http://donaldjdrumpf.com/
1421492;1457058648;assbot;Make Donald Drumpf! ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUesoL )
1421493;1457058661;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally, romanians have been trading votes for years now. go in there with your smartphone, take pic of vote and id card, get 30 lei or w/e
1421494;1457058708;asciilifeform;l0l sounds like a job for a gimp script (tnyscheme!11)
1421495;1457058711;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I refuse to vote for a clinton so no, can't vote for hairday guy
1421496;1457058737;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> vote for Vermin!11 << This general election course of action
1421497;1457058753;asciilifeform;aha.
1421498;1457058763;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform obviously you could take as many pics as payers. but in spite of the ridoinculousness, the nonsense provably works.
1421499;1457058785;asciilifeform;provably?
1421500;1457058789;asciilifeform;how
1421501;1457058875;mircea_popescu;compare the counties where scheme was implemented (it's always done by the "local barons", not a central thing) with the counties where it isn't.
1421502;1457059400;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/03/the-laymans-guide-to-salvaging-bitcoins-in-the-era-of-chicom-miner-monopoly/#comment-41310
1421503;1457059402;assbot;The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUfIYQ )
1421504;1457059436;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: pray explain how it works.
1421505;1457059438;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421360 << recently learned that 'freres de lait' shared wet nurse.
1421506;1457059438;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 00:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421239 << nice going, i'm at two too! we're ballerina bros now!
1421507;1457059460;asciilifeform;so you send a privkey. recipient does what?
1421508;1457059521;asciilifeform;now you gotta transact ~twice~
1421509;1457059531;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: user can't send tx because blackholed for using verboten tmsr service, let's say. user exports privkey from wallet, imports to bc.info, sends coins to new wallet and continues on his merry way.
1421510;1457059546;asciilifeform;once to fill up the addr
1421511;1457059559;asciilifeform;and now also he had to empty it.
1421512;1457059589;pete_dushenski;issues may arise if coins are sent to 'wiped' address on throw-away bc.info wallet. thus, my response
1421513;1457059603;asciilifeform;no, think
1421514;1457059652;asciilifeform;say you happened to have addr with x btc just lying around. you pay me by sending its privk.
1421515;1457059668;asciilifeform;now ~i~ want to spend.
1421516;1457059687;asciilifeform;what, i send key again to next dest?!
1421517;1457059714;asciilifeform;creating ~3~ wallets with identical key?!!
1421518;1457059731;pete_dushenski;i must be thick
1421519;1457059736;asciilifeform;and 3 folks who can spend it.
1421520;1457059744;asciilifeform;even by accident
1421521;1457059774;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: think about why we even have bitcoin?
1421522;1457059794;asciilifeform;instead of just saying 'i own this integer'
1421523;1457059808;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420598
1421524;1457059808;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 22:56:04; pete_dushenski: if i may summarise the last 24 hours of logs, which i must say were eminently enjoyable save the lack of practical recourse discussed : bitcoin remains the world's worst payment network... except for all the others. and even still, not by much.
1421525;1457059844;mircea_popescu;take it the other way, pete_dushenski
1421526;1457059854;asciilifeform;do you recall the ancient derpage where folks sold accounts?
1421527;1457059867;asciilifeform;or how mtgox was sold.
1421528;1457059883;mircea_popescu;so you meet a shady guy in a bar, and he shows you an address with 10 btc in it, and gives you the privkey in exchange of taking the lady in the back alley half-n-half.
1421529;1457059892;mircea_popescu;the lady side aside, do you think this is a sensible deal ?
1421530;1457059905;pete_dushenski;no, because he can have copies of privkey
1421531;1457059909;mircea_popescu;so then.
1421532;1457059952;pete_dushenski;but if no more coins are sent to the shared privkey, then all's kosher, neh ?
1421533;1457059962;mircea_popescu;how is it kosher ?
1421534;1457059981;mircea_popescu;it's not kosher, it's a race as to who can spend first, and you're hoping the lady's good enough to keep him busy long enough for you to get to a wifi ?
1421535;1457059987;deedbot-;[Trilema] MPIF (F.MPIF) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-february-2016-statement/
1421536;1457060002;mircea_popescu;which i suppose works ok in this extemporaneous prostitution scenario, but pretty much nowhere else.
1421537;1457060006;pete_dushenski;because it's then a throwaway intermediary. and yes, hoping that bc.info doesn't spend same coins in same 10 minutes is the risk.
1421538;1457060009;asciilifeform;generally, situation where 2+ people each have full control of a prvkey, is a deadly failure
1421539;1457060023;pete_dushenski;it's. 10. minutes.
1421540;1457060024;asciilifeform;like short circuit in electronics.
1421541;1457060045;pete_dushenski;after that, one hopes, no more.
1421542;1457060062;mircea_popescu;well... what happens if the tx is not included in a block ?
1421543;1457060066;pete_dushenski;i'm not advocating regular use of webwallets here
1421544;1457060072;mircea_popescu;or, better yet, broadcast but "not seen", magically ?
1421545;1457060094;mircea_popescu;by "the network", of course.
1421546;1457060094;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: what 10min?! whatever kept you from transacting like normal people, will keep you from moving the 'temporary' coinz
1421547;1457060139;punkman;where the hell does bc.info come in and why
1421548;1457060139;pete_dushenski;then bc.info has miners who prioritise their txen ?
1421549;1457060143;asciilifeform;this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!'
1421550;1457060150;pete_dushenski;l0l
1421551;1457060186;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: then user is fucked because he's now shared privkeys and ~still~ has no way of transacting lol
1421552;1457060198;pete_dushenski;punkman: just a place to import privkeys
1421553;1457060216;pete_dushenski;one that seems to get tx included in blocks, i might add
1421554;1457060224;punkman;pete_dushenski: I read the blog post, didn't make sense
1421555;1457060251;pete_dushenski;just my experience
1421556;1457060256;mircea_popescu;basically, the most charitable read of the thing i can come up with is, "if you find your own wallet unable to transact - try move the privkey to a webwallet, maybe it works there".
1421557;1457060264;mircea_popescu;that much... i guess may make sense, maybe.
1421558;1457060274;punkman;sure
1421559;1457060287;punkman;but stuck coinz don't get unstuck because you moved priv keys
1421560;1457060301;mircea_popescu;no, but you can now bitch at vc derps and post on reddit.
1421561;1457060305;asciilifeform;let hitler try spendng for you! ahaha lol
1421562;1457060331;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform somethinglike that. given that his guide announces itself as "opportunistic smalltimer defense", it's not necessarily wrong.
1421563;1457060339;pete_dushenski;punkman: i wouldn't have thought so either
1421564;1457060376;asciilifeform;before long, there will be special magick services that will help you spend...
1421565;1457060377;*;pete_dushenski is nothing if not "opportunistic smalltimer"
1421566;1457060385;asciilifeform;bitpal.
1421567;1457060397;mircea_popescu;bitpal by mital.
1421568;1457060413;asciilifeform;see where the train goes.
1421569;1457060522;punkman;I try to keep in mind:  "network might be down for a year, can you live with that"
1421570;1457060575;punkman;is this a bastardized mp quote? can't recall the source
1421571;1457060628;mircea_popescu;i'll gladly take the credit if it saves you the time to search for sauce.
1421572;1457060686;punkman;from the i-don't-even department http://i.imgur.com/k1x1n5b.png
1421573;1457060689;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUhNEf )
1421574;1457060772;pete_dushenski;also from gur, https://i.imgur.com/NxwksNr.gifv
1421575;1457060777;assbot;There's always that one guy.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUhVnh )
1421576;1457060788;mircea_popescu;is this something by that dank dude ?
1421577;1457060790;pete_dushenski;wait... that's a double post
1421578;1457060825;pete_dushenski;meant to post this https://i.imgur.com/B4n0csF.webm
1421579;1457060826;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3btQw )
1421580;1457060925;asciilifeform;l0lzy, neutron blackening of optics
1421581;1457060951;punkman;imgur videos are the worst with noscript. I click+delete the flash placeholder, allow the mp4, it reloads, then I allow the webm and maybe it start playing
1421582;1457061043;punkman;!s jl777
1421583;1457061043;assbot;2 results for 'jl777' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jl777
1421584;1457061051;punkman;(supernet guy)
1421585;1457061113;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> like short circuit in electronics. << For live examples see brainwallets
1421586;1457061138;asciilifeform;brainwallet is an iq test.
1421587;1457061150;asciilifeform;~the~ iq test.
1421588;1457061153;BingoBoingo;Also tx propagation test
1421589;1457061173;BingoBoingo;Who can spend inputs first when they arrive
1421590;1457061196;asciilifeform;if you have a reasonable brain you can even brainrsakey.
1421591;1457061207;asciilifeform;yes.
1421592;1457061333;BingoBoingo;Oh no, I mean enough people have keys for many brainwallets so anytime they recieve coins it is off to the races for at least tens of scrapers
1421593;1457061348;BingoBoingo;Wait,
1421594;1457061436;asciilifeform;ah you meant idiotwallets
1421595;1457061462;asciilifeform;with keys like sha512('foo').
1421596;1457061478;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27561 @ 0.00056784 = 15.6502 BTC [+]
1421597;1457061504;BingoBoingo;aha
1421598;1457061524;BingoBoingo;Yes, I mean the actual in the wild phenomenon
1421599;1457061534;punkman;there's a new 8char brainwallet challenge, apparently nobody solved the last one https://keybase.io/warp/warp_1.0.8_SHA256_5111a723fe008dbf628237023e6f2de72c7953f8bb4265d5c16fc9fd79384b7a.html
1421600;1457061537;assbot;WarpWallet - deterministic bitcoin wallet generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3cWGB )
1421601;1457061796;BingoBoingo;Cool Origin Story https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/897336
1421602;1457061798;assbot;Once upon a time... I accidentally killed a deathfat | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3dxbi )
1421603;1457061986;BingoBoingo;!up alnit
1421604;1457062462;BingoBoingo;Deviancy https://i.sli.mg/lCpdtO.png
1421605;1457062463;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3eLDn )
1421606;1457062542;cazalla;i dunno how you stomach it BingoBoingo, one of your fold mold comments on /r/bitcoin i think it was made me gag
1421607;1457062558;BingoBoingo;lol
1421608;1457062581;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> ~the~ iq test. << "variant thought" and iq are at best orthogonal.
1421609;1457062604;BingoBoingo;This is becoming a problem even for me, did I write that thing I just came across or not
1421610;1457062647;cazalla;doesn't read like previous ones of yours i've read, so i guess no
1421611;1457062651;mircea_popescu;lol first culture problems.
1421612;1457063347;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1421613;1457063354;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 421.85, vol: 6744.23638592 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 424.06, vol: 6696.72947 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 422.83, vol: 15402.83472685 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 428.8068, vol: 56255.23460000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 422.147, vol: 3751.10880038 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.71995, vol: 67.15733005 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1421614;1457063363;BingoBoingo;;;more
1421615;1457063363;gribble;426.601357001
1421616;1457063476;cazalla;http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/04/new-extremism-guidelines-require-schools-to-report-suspect-behaviour straya!
1421617;1457063480;assbot;New extremism guidelines require schools to report suspect behaviour | Australia news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21LA6yV )
1421618;1457063615;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.35570199 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b20
1421619;1457064223;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28654 @ 0.00056797 = 16.2746 BTC [+] {2} 
1421620;1457064711;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6301 @ 0.00056694 = 3.5723 BTC [-] {3} 
1421621;1457064942;*;asciilifeform falling down, will finish broadcast when he wakes up.
1421622;1457065687;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00056525 = 22.7231 BTC [-]
1421623;1457066580;ben_vulpes;!up felipelalli
1421624;1457066581;felipelalli;ben_vulpes, yes, I have my photo in there.
1421625;1457066615;felipelalli;ben_vulpes, but I didn't understand the relation.
1421626;1457066654;trinque;asciilifeform │ this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!' << bahahaha dear god my sides
1421627;1457066785;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12185 @ 0.00056826 = 6.9242 BTC [+] {2} 
1421628;1457067519;punkman;http://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/computing/it/reports-coming-in-of-mass-us-layoffs-underway-today-at-ibm
1421629;1457067520;assbot;Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDCLZs )
1421630;1457067675;punkman;"They are giving us 90 days paid working notice, one-month severance, and $2500 in money for retraining."
1421631;1457068249;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38584 @ 0.00056519 = 21.8073 BTC [-] {3} 
1421632;1457068310;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24249 @ 0.00056201 = 13.6282 BTC [-]
1421633;1457068513;punkman;https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/48pree/why_there_are_5_months_old_unconfirmed/
1421634;1457068514;assbot;Why there are 5 months old unconfirmed transactions sitting in the mempool? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qp1Iox )
1421635;1457068737;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40129 @ 0.00056201 = 22.5529 BTC [-] {2} 
1421636;1457068967;punkman;!up PaulCapestany
1421637;1457069469;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00056195 = 9.6655 BTC [-] {2} 
1421638;1457069530;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00056182 = 19.2142 BTC [-] {3} 
1421639;1457069727;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.56056253 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b22
1421640;1457071678;punkman;https://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tromer/mobilesc/
1421641;1457071680;assbot;ECDSA Key Extraction from Mobile Devices via Nonintrusive Physical      Side Channels ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsAR8P )
1421642;1457072214;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00056166 = 19.967 BTC [-] {2} 
1421643;1457072608;TomServo;;;blocks
1421644;1457072609;gribble;401082
1421645;1457072712;TomServo;yay! finally a sync'd node.
1421646;1457073861;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76747 @ 0.00056139 = 43.085 BTC [-] {3} 
1421647;1457073922;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4103 @ 0.00055984 = 2.297 BTC [-]
1421648;1457074070;TomServo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2016#1414960 << Any suggested reading on this topic?
1421649;1457074070;assbot;Logged on 24-02-2016 23:24:36; mircea_popescu: over the dead bodies of ranchers
1421650;1457075006;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 45.67770000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b50
1421651;1457077582;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00056354 = 23.4996 BTC [+] {2} 
1421652;1457077643;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00055983 = 3.9468 BTC [-] {3} 
1421653;1457077765;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14049 @ 0.00056632 = 7.9562 BTC [+] {2} 
1421654;1457079473;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16342 @ 0.00056788 = 9.2803 BTC [+]
1421655;1457079673;danielpbarron;!up Taek
1421656;1457081181;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00056414 = 26.5146 BTC [-] {5} 
1421657;1457083804;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52550 @ 0.0005666 = 29.7748 BTC [+]
1421658;1457086976;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3655 @ 0.00056773 = 2.0751 BTC [+]
1421659;1457087037;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00056307 = 21.0588 BTC [-] {3} 
1421660;1457087466;punkman;http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-March/012489.html
1421661;1457087467;assbot;[bitcoin-dev] Hardfork to fix difficulty drop algorithm ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsJP5L )
1421662;1457090392;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9213 @ 0.00056156 = 5.1737 BTC [-]
1421663;1457091368;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39400 @ 0.00056001 = 22.0644 BTC [-] {4} 
1421664;1457093283;mircea_popescu;punkman> "They are giving us 90 days paid working notice, one-month severance, and $2500 in money for retraining." <<< pretty generous.
1421665;1457093308;mircea_popescu;TomServo> yay! finally a sync'd node. << wd!
1421666;1457093823;mircea_popescu;TomServo> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2016#1414960 << Any suggested reading on this topic? << mid 1800s, galveston was the world's cotton center. by the 1900s, dallas had overtaken it as the center of texas. lots of discussion of this change that's emblematic from a more general shift from "midwest = great american desert" to "we built some pumps and whatnot, let's farm and raise cattle" to "holy shit
1421667;1457093823;assbot;Logged on 24-02-2016 23:24:36; mircea_popescu: over the dead bodies of ranchers
1421668;1457093824;mircea_popescu;oil!" to, finally, "flyover country". not entirely sure who'd be the indicated canon on the topic. as everything else to do with culture, starting with the great "american" novel and ending with the great "american" dictionary, the us has failed to produce usable works. maybe one day a gibbon is born in kenya or wherever and writes its history.
1421669;1457094418;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21196 @ 0.00055945 = 11.8581 BTC [-]
1421670;1457095150;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80492 @ 0.00055945 = 45.0312 BTC [-]
1421671;1457095798;shinohai;;;ticker --market all
1421672;1457095804;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 420.2, vol: 6541.50522339 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.957, vol: 7173.25211 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 420.36, vol: 12985.15674317 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.579272, vol: 49212.27850000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 421.513, vol: 2737.18385922 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.160837, vol: 80.75259039 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1421673;1457095882;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00055984 = 21.6658 BTC [+] {2} 
1421674;1457096065;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34705 @ 0.00055945 = 19.4157 BTC [-]
1421675;1457096740;deedbot-;[Trilema] Portrait of an adult woman - http://trilema.com/2016/portrait-of-an-adult-woman/
1421676;1457097590;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.00055937 = 27.9126 BTC [-] {3} 
1421677;1457098758;davout;I started looking into how bitmex's engine actually works, and god, it's an abomination
1421678;1457098810;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @ 0.00055888 = 24.9819 BTC [-] {4} 
1421679;1457098820;davout;kindof reads to me like "ohai, we're offering x100 leverage, but because we can't be sure to liquidate positions properly, we spread losses on everyone who actually made a profit"
1421680;1457098828;davout;in other words: "spreading works"
1421681;1457098946;davout;therefore, echo "bitmex" > niggers.txt
1421682;1457099049;mircea_popescu;they published the engine or is this just probing ?
1421683;1457099073;davout;it's their documentation
1421684;1457099102;davout;https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation
1421685;1457099103;assbot;Dynamic Profit Equalisation - BitMEX ... ( http://bit.ly/1QxxIor )
1421686;1457099136;mircea_popescu;heh. also this sounds exactly like icbit / bitfinex. same people ?
1421687;1457099149;davout;i don't think so
1421688;1457099161;mircea_popescu;same language i guess then.
1421689;1457099167;davout;"language"
1421690;1457099170;mircea_popescu;heh.
1421691;1457099226;davout;so basically you can actually use high leverage, except it doesn't quite work so well when you win, because it doesn't work very well when you lose
1421692;1457099324;davout;reddit dude sums it up nicely "Even though every contract has a counterpart, think of whole thing conceptually as being somewhat pooled with no specific counterparty and the winning traders jointly as bagholders of last resort."
1421693;1457099354;davout;Bagholders. Of last resort.
1421694;1457099366;davout;aka the Bitcoin movie
1421695;1457100762;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00055875 = 4.5818 BTC [-] {2} 
1421696;1457103498;thestringpuller;i think icbit got shut down
1421697;1457105117;davout;"A weird exchange nobody really trades on, Orderbook.net, has run into some trouble with the CFTC."
1421698;1457105126;davout;http://www.bitcoinfuturesguide.com/bitcoin-blog/orderbooknet-formerly-icbit-gets-cease-and-desist-notice-from-cftc
1421699;1457105203;thestringpuller;i remember when MP exposed them as a scam way back in 2012
1421700;1457105412;kakobrekla;an i thought tycho (deepbit) retired?
1421701;1457105473;kakobrekla;davout if the fork (say 'classic') happens, is paymium expected to stay on the current blocks ?
1421702;1457105591;davout;kakobrekla: https://twitter.com/davoutplantaire/status/689431734765547520
1421703;1457105638;kakobrekla;you will have two separate trading markets ?
1421704;1457105735;davout;tbh i don't know, what i know is that there won't be any bullshit like "oh btw, withdrawals on chain [A|B] are deprecated"
1421705;1457105947;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25950 @ 0.00055875 = 14.4996 BTC [-]
1421706;1457106435;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42008 @ 0.00055883 = 23.4753 BTC [+]
1421707;1457106577;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 33.65869796 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b51
1421708;1457107321;PeterL;With bitbet doublesending the Jeb Bush bet, are they going to have to take out a bridge loan from MPIF again?
1421709;1457107481;PeterL;And is that going to be classified under "advertising expenses" since it got the bitbet name out in a bunch of media?
1421710;1457107688;jurov;i believe it should be budgeted to security or R&D dept... who ever seen marketing monkeys to meddle with technology so
1421711;1457107770;jurov;or actually... as the whole thing was about bitcoin protocol enforcement, law dept would be prolly best choice.
1421712;1457107899;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7769 @ 0.00056105 = 4.3588 BTC [+] {3} 
1421713;1457107918;jurov;*legal dept, i mean
1421714;1457107947;jurov;and there is likely also no-such-dept. involved
1421715;1457108037;danielpbarron;for BingoBoingo >> https://i.imgur.com/CX9sBUAl.jpg << warning : NSFL
1421716;1457108039;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QqjLux )
1421717;1457108265;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00056241 = 19.8531 BTC [+] {4} 
1421718;1457109680;mircea_popescu;"no such dept" not even a half-bad idea.
1421719;1457109705;mircea_popescu;"we've had some no such expenses this month somehow related to the bitcoin protocol of the future's many advantages which can not be specified for guess why reasons."
1421720;1457109709;mircea_popescu;everyone happy with that ?
1421721;1457109893;mircea_popescu;and in other "woman is a book" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/7316eaa09f84216a8fe356ffba3c9df0/tumblr_mm4rjyzjH81qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1421722;1457109896;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1nluSKC )
1421723;1457110071;*;asciilifeform awake, cranks out broadcast slowly while on the stake
1421724;1457110090;asciilifeform;meanwhile, a golden oldie, just for mircea_popescu : http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2012/Dec/151
1421725;1457110091;assbot;Bugtraq: GnuPG 1.4.12 and lower - memory access errors and keyring database corruption ... ( http://bit.ly/1nlvtw6 )
1421726;1457110093;thestringpuller;whoa, asciilifeform just dropped some phat rhymes
1421727;1457110202;mircea_popescu;skate/stake/steak/on the take etc bla bla, enough rhymes in there for a full rap album.
1421728;1457110234;mircea_popescu;Alfie Lifeform not a terribru rapper name, either.
1421729;1457110239;asciilifeform;l0l!
1421730;1457110413;mircea_popescu;in other news, according to reddit i am by far the bitcoiner most likely to have a collection of human body parts in my fridge.
1421731;1457110428;mircea_popescu;depending on the exact definition of "human body parts" you use, i will grant that this is actually the case.
1421732;1457110541;asciilifeform;at any rate, i suspect that i found one of the magical orifices the dud keys went in.
1421733;1457110607;asciilifeform;also as i write this, my cellmate/boss is fuzzing gpgtron.
1421734;1457110627;mircea_popescu;lol are you subverting the kolhoz for counter-party activities ?
1421735;1457110641;asciilifeform;how else.
1421736;1457110641;mircea_popescu;you should start wearing round glasses and a pickaxe hole in the temple already.
1421737;1457110658;asciilifeform;prolly been fitted for the hole'n'glasses already.
1421738;1457110753;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421718 << l0lwut?
1421739;1457110753;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 16:41:20; mircea_popescu: "no such dept" not even a half-bad idea.
1421740;1457110759;shinohai;More for BingoBoingo - a possible front view of what danielpbarron posted earlier: https://i.imgur.com/WELwzH0.jpg
1421741;1457110760;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1nlwWm3 )
1421742;1457110763;mircea_popescu;see next line.
1421743;1457110785;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo should i do a small piece on argentina or really too far off scope ?
1421744;1457110834;asciilifeform;it'd be a welcome change from the usaschwitz crud
1421745;1457110861;mircea_popescu;see, this is exactly what i'm asking him : if you should be allowed to continue in this childhood delusion :)
1421746;1457110915;asciilifeform;l0l which one
1421747;1457110919;mircea_popescu;shinohai i don't get it, person should go through 1-200ish gallons of water a year, every year. what's the problem there ?
1421748;1457110926;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that it'd be a change.
1421749;1457110945;asciilifeform;wai wut i thought my delusion was that usg is everywhere
1421750;1457110974;mircea_popescu;you know, if you meet two retarded teenagers cca 2004, it doesn't mean "britni is everywhere".
1421751;1457110988;mircea_popescu;retardation belongs to no-one, even if it is always and perpetually the exact same.
1421752;1457111002;shinohai;I guess the point being she is adamant that fluid is the reason she is fat, and not the 28 BigMacs she consumes for lunch daily.
1421753;1457111263;mircea_popescu;she does look pretty edematous
1421754;1457112413;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36016 @ 0.00055875 = 20.1239 BTC [-]
1421755;1457112444;asciilifeform;https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/1/18/524 << lulz
1421756;1457112445;assbot;LKML: Jeff King: Re: Don't use PGP/GPG signatures in mail that contains patches ... ( http://bit.ly/1nlDIrO )
1421757;1457112478;asciilifeform;we - in case anybody had any doubts - 'don't exist', never happened...
1421758;1457112616;mircea_popescu;doh.
1421759;1457112632;mircea_popescu;and we can say jack shit about it - because guess what ? phuctor still down.
1421760;1457112644;mircea_popescu;this has been a perfect case of typically lispian self-sabotage, for the record.
1421761;1457112716;asciilifeform;i actually shelved the lisp ver.
1421762;1457112718;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30699 @ 0.0005617 = 17.2436 BTC [+] {2} 
1421763;1457112719;asciilifeform;having realized this.
1421764;1457112760;mircea_popescu;not a comment on the language - a comment on the mentality. "oh this box is not good". fine. "oh this other box is not yet ready". fine. whatever all this may mean in the ideal world of ideals, what it means in practice is that - never happened.
1421765;1457112775;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] The Big Singer - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-big-singer/
1421766;1457112872;mircea_popescu;check out the drinks guy!
1421767;1457112924;danielpbarron;:D
1421768;1457112943;mircea_popescu;you gotta re-doi the overlay on the header tho, i can see the edges and a nose/hairline of a guy in the irght
1421769;1457112944;danielpbarron;more to come in that category!
1421770;1457112955;danielpbarron;heh, ok
1421771;1457113378;danielpbarron;btw, that guy on the right is Birdman of Eulora infamy
1421772;1457113435;danielpbarron;dealing poker at porcfest; that picture was taken in the morning near the end of an all-night game
1421773;1457113450;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056368 = 8.5116 BTC [+] {2} 
1421774;1457113511;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00056041 = 8.6864 BTC [-] {4} 
1421775;1457114304;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00055862 = 5.7538 BTC [-] {2} 
1421776;1457114308;asciilifeform;sooo crying over 'math is hard!111' is hip now ? >> https://medium.com/@fjmubeen/ai-no-longer-understand-my-phd-dissertation-and-what-this-means-for-mathematics-education-1d40708f61c#.492j0fjqn
1421777;1457114310;assbot;I no longer understand my PhD dissertation (and what this means for Mathematics Education) — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1OViU0P )
1421778;1457114487;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36850 @ 0.00055856 = 20.5829 BTC [-] {3} 
1421779;1457114792;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12733 @ 0.00055847 = 7.111 BTC [-] {2} 
1421780;1457115137;mircea_popescu;new party line i guess. proactively closing the uni financing gap and all that.
1421781;1457115255;asciilifeform;it isn't as if most of the meatpuppets were doing whatever mathematical thing.
1421782;1457115285;asciilifeform;so the reason has to be something else.
1421783;1457115312;mircea_popescu;something else other than the uni-money pump can't be sustained anymore ? why ?
1421784;1457115361;asciilifeform;because then the article would be 'the new, hip trade schools!11' or the like.
1421785;1457115374;mircea_popescu;oh in somewaht lulzy news : obama is going to be in argentina 23-24th. he (and his 850 camp followers) is however not going to stay in buenos aires, but some far flung provincial shithole. either because afraid of running into me on corrientes, or else because petrified of LEFT WING PROTESTS.
1421786;1457115393;mircea_popescu;cuz yeah, the socialists here more or less ready to firebomb the socialists from there.
1421787;1457115411;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform much like soviet economy endgame, stuff isn't being replaced. simply removed.
1421788;1457115448;asciilifeform;well yeah, but the ~order~ of removal is peculiar.
1421789;1457115459;asciilifeform;most of the participants in the college racket are innocent of mathematics as it is.
1421790;1457115470;mircea_popescu;why ? currently the harvard/mit/etc hedge funds masquerading as universities are pretty much the largest problem on fed's map.
1421791;1457115491;mircea_popescu;oh, this isn't about math. this is about stem. stem costs TURKEY dollars.
1421792;1457115496;mircea_popescu;the "studies" whores cost paper dollars.
1421793;1457115528;PeterL;isn't the "m" in "stem" math?
1421794;1457115560;asciilifeform;it used to ~cost~ when an engineering graduate expected to build bridges, pipelines.
1421795;1457115563;asciilifeform;but not now.
1421796;1457115568;mircea_popescu;you can replace the ~100 trn worth ivy league & friends that do a 10-20 bn spending on actual hardware each year and otherwise shuffle paper on the exchanges with a new-and-improved thing worth ~1-2 bn that spends 50 bucks on mcdonalsa a year.
1421797;1457115578;asciilifeform;now he only expects, reasonably, to derp in cad and crap out 'intellectual property!111'
1421798;1457115589;asciilifeform;he costs same as 'womenz studies' chick.
1421799;1457115605;mircea_popescu;that's 100 trn in air bubble to breathe while the dod keeps losing trucks nominally full of trucks that were fully loaded with trucks.
1421800;1457115618;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform afaik this isn't true.
1421801;1457115651;mircea_popescu;specifically : while the universities may well be pushing costs down as you describe, they're sure as fuck noty passing the savings up the chain to comecon.
1421802;1457115677;mircea_popescu;notably enough : romania told the soviets to shut it, and as a result the policy was updated to allow people (ie, romania) to do w/e it pleases.
1421803;1457115691;mircea_popescu;curious if any of the loser satellites will succeed, or for that matter try, something similar.
1421804;1457115703;mircea_popescu;(but now we know what the "protests" were for. softening - in preparation of this.)
1421805;1457115721;asciilifeform;(i am speaking of cost of his doing business. ~wage~ is paid in the same toilet paper to everybody in usaschwitz)
1421806;1457115731;mircea_popescu;right. so am i.
1421807;1457115740;mircea_popescu;PeterL only marginally.
1421808;1457115754;mircea_popescu;you know what the eu cyclotron cost ? you know, that thing the us could never afford ?
1421809;1457115765;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421801 << what would this look like ?
1421810;1457115765;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 18:20:51; mircea_popescu: specifically : while the universities may well be pushing costs down as you describe, they're sure as fuck noty passing the savings up the chain to comecon.
1421811;1457115797;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it looks like, mit still is the hedge fund it was, whether it spends x on wage and y on fixed/capital goods or just x/2 on wage and epsilon on f/c
1421812;1457115810;mircea_popescu;the savings show in mit's bottom line, not in the fed's.
1421813;1457115823;asciilifeform;it's a usg crown hedgefund. in what sense does it not serve hitler ?
1421814;1457115837;mircea_popescu;it is NOT a usg crown hedgefund anymore than romania was a soviet property.
1421815;1457115854;asciilifeform;dunno about that, good chunk of mit income is direct usg grantolade
1421816;1457115859;mircea_popescu;it has its own head. and this is a serious problem for the pretense of central planning, because they effectively suck down resources.
1421817;1457115865;mircea_popescu;yep, it is.
1421818;1457115874;mircea_popescu;try having children sometime, and then give them money, and then see what happens.
1421819;1457115919;mircea_popescu;i don't think any human being in the history of this "man-woman family" idiocy has EVER heard "sure dad, go ahead, it's your money anyway"
1421820;1457116009;mircea_popescu;ironically, sultans and other practitioners of "man-slavegirls-theirlitter family" did and regularly do hear such, for reasons that should be obvious and for which reason they're never discussed in idiocy-land.
1421821;1457116023;mircea_popescu;anywya.
1421822;1457116028;asciilifeform;hey, now we have man-wienerschnitzel and woman-sofa phamily. pr0gr355555!111
1421823;1457116049;PeterL;The chemistry building where I went to college sits adjacent to the "National superconducting cyclotron", they were in the process of building the "facility for rare isotope beams" when I graduated
1421824;1457116063;jurov;Qntra shares distributed. shinohai see:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-10-2015#1290136
1421825;1457116070;mircea_popescu;PeterL how much does that sorta thing cost ? you know ?
1421826;1457116083;PeterL;I dunno, bunches of dollars?
1421827;1457116084;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform is what i'm saying here making sense to you ?
1421828;1457116085;asciilifeform;PeterL: the usg uni thing was originally a product of the 1950s wunderwaffen obsession, that has been fading since
1421829;1457116094;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which
1421830;1457116099;asciilifeform;the sultan thing ?
1421831;1457116101;asciilifeform;not entirely
1421832;1457116105;mircea_popescu;nah, the thing with money flow.
1421833;1457116155;asciilifeform;the argument is clear but i don't see how the wunderwaffen payola is necessarily 'turkeydollar'
1421834;1457116170;asciilifeform;so an engineer is paid 200k-usd. he spends it in same place as the lit major.
1421835;1457116173;asciilifeform;housing racket.
1421836;1457116175;mircea_popescu;because the cyclotron building either works or does not. and they can't lie about the latter.
1421837;1457116179;mircea_popescu;nonononon
1421838;1457116180;PeterL;heh, looks like they are still in the process of building it http://www.frib.msu.edu
1421839;1457116184;assbot;Welcome to FRIB | frib.msu.edu ... ( http://bit.ly/1QY4PXR )
1421840;1457116186;mircea_popescu;not that. "National superconducting cyclotron" < that.
1421841;1457116187;asciilifeform;actually they can.
1421842;1457116195;asciilifeform;familiar with the webb space telescope ?
1421843;1457116203;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, beause the euros and the chinese are building actual working things.
1421844;1457116206;asciilifeform;1) spend $xx B on project.
1421845;1457116209;asciilifeform;2) cancel 'at last minute'
1421846;1457116212;mircea_popescu;PeterL see what i mean ?
1421847;1457116213;asciilifeform;3) profit!111
1421848;1457116216;thestringpuller;free money111
1421849;1457116226;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform only works if you're alone. the us is quite behind in tech fixed goods atm.
1421850;1457116229;mircea_popescu;QUITE behind.
1421851;1457116244;mircea_popescu;this means the good chinese phds do not go there anymore ; and that the americans who aren't fucktarded long left.
1421852;1457116264;PeterL;well, the cyclotron works currently, the frib is an addition
1421853;1457116269;asciilifeform;place is still packed with chinese.
1421854;1457116276;mircea_popescu;and all the smoke and mirrors the vc freakshow may aim to deploy with software ain't gonna help lipstick this one pig.
1421855;1457116298;asciilifeform;and usa is quite alone in its solipsist hell.
1421856;1457116306;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's all sorts of chinese, and enough of each sort, to feed all bologna factories both with workers and raw material. and still have leftover actual phjds.
1421857;1457116307;asciilifeform;(no one knows or cares about chinese telescope here.)
1421858;1457116339;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform recall the lulz i had in the logs when it was discovered the icbc, an economic institution with a sheet larger than the entire us banking sector, was actually NOT EVEN TRADED in the us ?
1421859;1457116344;asciilifeform;l0l real phds? you mean like these - http://retractionwatch.com/2011/02/28/crystal-myth-11-more-retractions-from-crystallography-journal-after-2010-fakery ?
1421860;1457116349;assbot;Crystal myth: 11 more retractions from crystallography journal after 2010 fakery - Retraction Watch at Retraction Watch ... ( http://bit.ly/21c48tB )
1421861;1457116349;mircea_popescu;pinksheets, barely, a fund-of-a-fund thing ?
1421862;1457116367;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform seeing how the article is about english articles, exactly not like those.
1421863;1457116415;asciilifeform;so, meta-china ?
1421864;1457116420;asciilifeform;the one that doesn't publish anything ?
1421865;1457116426;mircea_popescu;PeterL your definition of works being, of course, that it's never included in any actual measurements of anything. look through the actual research sheets, the euros never bother asking them to replicate jack.
1421866;1457116437;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform publishes plenty, and the ru even translate here and there.
1421867;1457116526;asciilifeform;can haz example?
1421868;1457116560;mircea_popescu;no, because i don't read chinese, nor actually care punctually. i just get (and care about) synthetic reports.
1421869;1457116631;asciilifeform;the ghost cities suggest that cn beats usa at entirely everything, including fraud and bezzle.
1421870;1457116644;mircea_popescu;sure. but the stupid parts are not of particular interest here.
1421871;1457116871;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform meanwhile i asked for sauce
1421872;1457116885;mircea_popescu;here you go, very partial list of first pass : http://dpaste.com/2823GVE
1421873;1457116887;assbot;dpaste: 2823GVE ... ( http://bit.ly/21c52q1 )
1421874;1457116940;asciilifeform;what even is this
1421875;1457116950;asciilifeform;library catalogue ?
1421876;1457116961;mircea_popescu;aha.
1421877;1457116980;asciilifeform;it is not a mega-surprise that there are libraries in cn.
1421878;1457116986;asciilifeform;but where is the room-temp supercon.
1421879;1457116993;asciilifeform;it is in the same nowhere as here, afaik.
1421880;1457117007;mircea_popescu;libraries in cn about physics written in cn by cn that you can't get in english
1421881;1457117007;asciilifeform;(though uncle al had a pretty solid suspicion that they built his eotvostron)
1421882;1457117009;mircea_popescu;was the discussion.
1421883;1457117012;asciilifeform;ah.
1421884;1457117085;mircea_popescu;and curse you, now i want to read inept shit about cuprate superconductives.
1421885;1457117091;mircea_popescu;blergh. i knew i shouldn't have done this.
1421886;1457117107;asciilifeform;lulzily, i threw one into google and got http://pub.nsfc.gov.cn/pinscn/ch/reader/create_pdf.aspx?file_no=1135253573185568&flag=1&journal_id=pinscn&year_id=2006
1421887;1457117112;asciilifeform;that has... english abstract.
1421888;1457117113;asciilifeform;as most of'em appear to.
1421889;1457117120;asciilifeform;(why???!)
1421890;1457117133;mircea_popescu;no idea.
1421891;1457117146;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421824   <<< ty jurov
1421892;1457117146;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 18:27:43; jurov: Qntra shares distributed. shinohai see:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-10-2015#1290136
1421893;1457117148;asciilifeform;where did mircea_popescu even get this list. took it off a dead nazi ?
1421894;1457117150;PeterL;"English is the language of science!"
1421895;1457117185;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the way my intel works is that i don't give a shit about the source data, i read summaries of summaries. but god fucking help you if i go for a endpoint-to-endpoint spot check and the whole conduit isn't there.
1421896;1457117198;mircea_popescu;so if i want the raw for something, i can generally get the raw for something.
1421897;1457117211;mircea_popescu;or as much as fits in the buffer i'm willing to handle, at any rate.
1421898;1457117213;PeterL;Abstract in English so that people can decide whether or not they need to get the rest of the paper translated
1421899;1457117224;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reasonable.
1421900;1457117244;mircea_popescu;PeterL honestly i suspect it's more of a "we're slowly outgrowing this quaint historical convention where it's what's done."
1421901;1457117253;mircea_popescu;!up CryptoSiD
1421902;1457117262;CryptoSiD;hello
1421903;1457117270;mircea_popescu;hi
1421904;1457117271;CryptoSiD;why do i get voiced
1421905;1457117277;CryptoSiD;im that popular!
1421906;1457117297;CryptoSiD;feel like a freenode star right now:D
1421907;1457117316;mircea_popescu;who're you ?
1421908;1457117340;CryptoSiD;im CryptoSiD!
1421909;1457117342;CryptoSiD;:)
1421910;1457117345;mircea_popescu;!down CryptoSiD
1421911;1457117347;mircea_popescu;have fun now.
1421912;1457117353;shinohai;lolz
1421913;1457117631;mircea_popescu;come to think about it, i guess good intel works pretty much like you want your lisp ast thing to work.
1421914;1457117643;mircea_popescu;surprising i guess ~ no one
1421915;1457117655;asciilifeform;aha.
1421916;1457117685;asciilifeform;correct things are all quite alike, broken crapolade is each broken in its own broken-glass way
1421917;1457117688;asciilifeform;or how did it go.
1421918;1457117903;mircea_popescu;somethinglike.that
1421919;1457118107;mircea_popescu;and in other gross and deeply disturbing news you had no idea you were interested in : the right way to get the butt flavour in girl's mouth is to fuck ass with condom on, then take it off and have her suck you. bacteria - do not cross the silicon barrier. mercaptans and other intoxicating goodies - do.
1421920;1457118489;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo should i do a small piece on argentina or really too far off scope ? << Go for it
1421921;1457119293;jurov;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421174 can you please substantiate? you're not saving anything much algorithmically-wise by rejecting tx with unconfiremd inputs
1421922;1457119293;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 17:37:20; asciilifeform: sturles: do you know what an ~algorithmic complexity attack~ is ?
1421923;1457119550;jurov;verification is not O(1) even if no unconfirmed inputs is enforced, it's O(N) where N is number of inputs
1421924;1457119725;jurov;to compare, implementing mircea's ring buffer with both random insertion and low memory overhead, now that's some real algorithmic complication on C machine
1421925;1457119761;jurov;(i actually did the prototype, noone picked it up yet, really gnarly)
1421926;1457119825;jurov;it will be done some day in shivascheme, maybe even by me, but I don't seehow to keep good (or predictable) memory usage
1421927;1457119845;jurov;this is *the* problem, not chained unconfirmed transactions
1421928;1457120233;mircea_popescu;jurov> (i actually did the prototype, noone picked it up yet, really gnarly) << yeah i know it's rather miserable.
1421929;1457120593;asciilifeform;jurov: iirc your prototype crashed for everybody
1421930;1457120605;thestringpuller;LOL. my coworkers just bailed. it's weird being the responsibile one...
1421931;1457121162;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421921 << this is nonsense, please take 5 min to think !
1421932;1457121162;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 19:21:33; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421174 can you please substantiate? you're not saving anything much algorithmically-wise by rejecting tx with unconfiremd inputs
1421933;1457121185;asciilifeform;a mysterymeat orphan piece of shit takes up ~space~
1421934;1457121379;asciilifeform;and if you allow chained tx, now you have to walk the mempool when checking the validity of ~any~ incoming tx.
1421935;1457121386;asciilifeform;what is so hard to grasp about this.
1421936;1457121439;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421924 << use a fibonacci heap.
1421937;1457121439;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 19:28:45; jurov: to compare, implementing mircea's ring buffer with both random insertion and low memory overhead, now that's some real algorithmic complication on C machine
1421938;1457121476;asciilifeform;http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~csli/graduate/algorithms/book6/chap21.htm
1421939;1457121556;asciilifeform;http://maryrosecook.com/blog/post/the-fibonacci-heap-ruins-my-life << lulzy and related.
1421940;1457121557;assbot;The Fibonacci heap ruins my life ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyEEl6 )
1421941;1457121831;jurov;you have to "walk" mempool for every tx regardless
1421942;1457121835;jurov;to check for conflicts
1421943;1457121899;asciilifeform;why?
1421944;1457121907;asciilifeform;this is the miner's job
1421945;1457121931;asciilifeform;a tx that spends an input that is not yet spent in an actual block, is valid.
1421946;1457121943;asciilifeform;(assuming that it is validly signed, and violates no rule)
1421947;1457121953;jurov;so i can generate N doublespends with high tx fee and you're happily gonna carryy them in mempool and propagate?
1421948;1457121954;mircea_popescu;^
1421949;1457121962;mircea_popescu;jurov yes.
1421950;1457121967;asciilifeform;jurov: absolutely.
1421951;1457121978;asciilifeform;how am i to know which one is 'double'
1421952;1457121981;mircea_popescu;the notion that it works any other way is so fucktarfded i couldn't begin to explain it
1421953;1457121983;asciilifeform;and which - the 'legit'.
1421954;1457121985;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has it.
1421955;1457121992;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13110 @ 0.00055846 = 7.3214 BTC [-] {2} 
1421956;1457122007;mircea_popescu;and if one day a double jurov appears, your wife better fuck BOTH of you, and well, or else she gets beaten.
1421957;1457122019;mircea_popescu;and by both, for EACH case once. so four times.
1421958;1457122053;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35640 @ 0.00055829 = 19.8975 BTC [-]
1421959;1457122073;asciilifeform;who has seen the film 'the prestige' ?
1421960;1457122087;jurov;i have no words
1421961;1457122103;mircea_popescu;i did not.
1421962;1457122109;asciilifeform;it is kinda about this.
1421963;1457122111;asciilifeform;and overall notbad.
1421964;1457122116;*;mircea_popescu adding to list
1421965;1457122123;mircea_popescu;i "saw" 6 films ion the space of an hour last night
1421966;1457122138;mircea_popescu;"close and wipe this. how the fuck did it end up in ?" x6.
1421967;1457122143;asciilifeform;l0l
1421968;1457122160;mircea_popescu;"well it had kidman and malkovich in it" sorta answers.
1421969;1457122160;jurov;and the rule is simple - the 'double' is the one with lower txfee.
1421970;1457122165;mircea_popescu;jesus the shit people will act in.
1421971;1457122177;mircea_popescu;jurov that's the end result, once proper ring buffer sorts by fee yes.
1421972;1457122181;asciilifeform;jurov: aha
1421973;1457122183;jurov;if there same and lower, jsut drop it
1421974;1457122194;mircea_popescu;but it is absolutely not the relay's fucking job to attempt to otherwise "check" txns
1421975;1457122203;mircea_popescu;"is it signed validly ? are the inputs in blocks ?" and that is IT.
1421976;1457122207;asciilifeform;from miner's pov, that'd be a defective relay
1421977;1457122211;asciilifeform;and is to be eschewed.
1421978;1457122214;mircea_popescu;^
1421979;1457122225;asciilifeform;it is really not so fucking hard to grasp the protocol
1421980;1457122246;asciilifeform;(though a number of folks do a mighty fine job failing, somehow, to)
1421981;1457122267;mircea_popescu;you mean to guess what the protocol should have been
1421982;1457122280;jurov;the realy that allows to fillt is mempool by conflicting transactions is indeed defective
1421983;1457122291;jurov;damn kdb
1421984;1457122321;mircea_popescu;there is absolutely nothing wrong relaying multiple txn that spend the same inputs ; there is EVERYTHING wrong with the notion you shouldn't do this.
1421985;1457122328;asciilifeform;jurov: beyond 'throw out the cheapo crapola', it is not relay's place to resolve the conflict.
1421986;1457122363;mircea_popescu;certainly ANY relay that currently drops on the floor a VALIDLY SIGNED txn is broken. no possible argument here.
1421987;1457122367;mircea_popescu;the job of relaying is - to relay.
1421988;1457122399;asciilifeform;well, validly-signed but inputs-already-spent-and-this-is-in-a-block is noise.
1421989;1457122408;jurov;so, i'll spend 1 btc million times with 0.1 fee, feed it to you and you'll be like "not my problem"?
1421990;1457122410;mircea_popescu;the overarching design principle being that ALL the information deciding the treatment of a txn MUST BE ~COMPLETELY~ in the txn in question.
1421991;1457122414;mircea_popescu;you may NOT have state.
1421992;1457122424;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we have a permitted state - it is called the blockchain.
1421993;1457122428;asciilifeform;as in, the actual blocks.
1421994;1457122439;jurov;this is wankery.
1421995;1457122439;mircea_popescu;and the idiots that made a state machine out of the fucking relays are so stupid it's basically inhuman.
1421996;1457122451;jurov;and won't work in practice.
1421997;1457122454;mircea_popescu;psssh.
1421998;1457122476;asciilifeform;jurov: works great in practice. in your trb node.
1421999;1457122496;jurov;my node does check for conflicts
1422000;1457122534;jurov;that works great, too
1422001;1457122680;jurov;!up Reydev
1422002;1457122763;asciilifeform;jurov: checks for conflicts ?!
1422003;1457122767;asciilifeform;and what does it reject ??
1422004;1457122772;asciilifeform;whatever comes second ??
1422005;1457122777;jurov;so far, yes
1422006;1457122807;asciilifeform;verily this is lame.
1422007;1457122879;jurov;letting memory to fill with turds isn't lame?
1422008;1457122883;jurov;both are.
1422009;1457122980;asciilifeform;it isn't a turd if it is valid.
1422010;1457122999;asciilifeform;(well, it can be, if it falls below the specified fee/byte mark)
1422011;1457123198;jurov;your memory together for all the conficted txs falls below the specified fee/byte mark, you can admit at least this is true
1422012;1457123234;asciilifeform;jurov: the logical thing to do would be to resolve all conflicts by maximizing fee.
1422013;1457123239;asciilifeform;the only logical thing.
1422014;1457123253;asciilifeform;but 'seen first is The One' is asinine.
1422015;1457123257;jurov;but ALL the conflicts have same $maxint fee
1422016;1457123282;jurov;YES, first one, si asinine, lit's move on
1422017;1457123314;jurov;i don't argue to keep current algo!
1422018;1457123330;jurov;i just am asking ahy you give your memory so cheaply?
1422019;1457123345;asciilifeform;the original thread was re: how the current protocol, which allows a tx to refer to unconfirmed inputs, is retarded.
1422020;1457123375;jurov;and you reacted by putting forward no less retarded notion to keep everythign that has inputs in block
1422021;1457123397;asciilifeform;while maximizing summed fee, aha
1422022;1457123405;asciilifeform;what's the problem with that ?
1422023;1457123417;asciilifeform;and yes, you sum over the non-conflicting tx.
1422024;1457123445;jurov;but then you have to check for conflicts!
1422025;1457123471;trinque;lol
1422026;1457123483;jurov;am i dense or what's happening here
1422027;1457123501;asciilifeform;you check ~when expelling~ from the pool
1422028;1457123509;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> but 'seen first is The One' is asinine. << srsly.
1422029;1457123525;jurov;either there's a state machine that considers other txen in mempool, or no conflict resolution, there's no third way
1422030;1457123534;mircea_popescu;no conflict resolution.
1422031;1457123537;mircea_popescu;it is not a relayer job.
1422032;1457123559;mircea_popescu;dumbass doing the original ~prototype~ had nfi of design, ended up shoehorning everything in everything else
1422033;1457123575;mircea_popescu;producing the equivalent of penises with a clitoral hood and cunts with a bit of penile foreskin and on and on.
1422034;1457123629;jurov;no conflict resolution =  free memory for attacker
1422035;1457123674;jurov;messing with your clitoris wont change it
1422036;1457123697;asciilifeform;conflict resolution == free cpu for attacker.
1422037;1457123750;jurov;how free?
1422038;1457123768;jurov;they must make all these zillion conflicting signatures
1422039;1457123787;jurov;and also loses txfee when one of these tx is mined
1422040;1457123861;jurov;oh and actually, how do you check if enemy sends the same tx many times?
1422041;1457123877;jurov;without even producing new sigs?
1422042;1457123896;asciilifeform;he can make'em in O(1)
1422043;1457123902;asciilifeform;you resolve in O(N^2).
1422044;1457123920;asciilifeform;asymptotic death.
1422045;1457123921;jurov;why O(N)?
1422046;1457123933;jurov;*why not
1422047;1457123990;mircea_popescu;jurov> no conflict resolution =  free memory for attacker << you drop stuff under minfee.
1422048;1457124011;mircea_popescu;jurov because you have to search omg.
1422049;1457124020;jurov;mircea_popescu of course. please reread and think
1422050;1457124029;mircea_popescu;EVEN if you build a tree - which you do not, chiefly because don't know how - you STILL lose out on the rebalancings
1422051;1457124033;mircea_popescu;which you must do and he - not.
1422052;1457124035;jurov;we don't have anything better than cartesian joins?
1422053;1457124154;jurov;eh why do i strive here, like with NAT, inputs vs. addresses and maybe several other things, you will eventually come to terms with what i meant
1422054;1457124183;jurov;after several months of screaming STUPIDITY and listing NAT.ROUTERS and whatnot
1422055;1457124184;mircea_popescu;well, for practicing speech if nothing else.
1422056;1457124198;mircea_popescu;what do you think this is in reference to ?
1422057;1457124274;jurov;i explained why NAT is stupid, like one way telephone that only accepts calls, you laughed at me and told you wouldn't want any other
1422058;1457124291;jurov;*that only allows outgoing calls
1422059;1457124334;jurov;then we had dicsussion where I was unable to explain why addresses aren't spent, but outputs are, same reult
1422060;1457124391;mircea_popescu;specifically : "<jurov> after several months of screaming STUPIDITY and listing NAT.ROUTERS and whatnot" << you propose i did what ?
1422061;1457124403;jurov;why did you list NAT.ROUTERS?
1422062;1457124407;jurov;"list"
1422063;1457124424;mircea_popescu;i have no fucking idea, it's a random string. it certainly didn't have some sort of intention, and i was certainly not thinking of you.
1422064;1457124437;mircea_popescu;i think i had moneys-something in there for a while also, or whatever.
1422065;1457124469;mircea_popescu;but this aside. so you said nat routers are stupid and i said i'm happy with them and this evnetually means i came to terms to what, using the jurov two way router ? or what ?
1422066;1457124510;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo what's the cannonical article re pres. bahamas, witgh the pic ? the asean one ?
1422067;1457124520;jurov;overall, i feel i can't explain myself well to you no matter what i try
1422068;1457124555;mircea_popescu;in all cases when what you're trying to explain makes no sense or generally ?
1422069;1457124572;jurov;in many cases. then alf or someone other explains again and you get it
1422070;1457124664;mircea_popescu;must be frustrating. well, generally a good starting point of understanding a problem is, making a list of observed cases.
1422071;1457124687;mircea_popescu;but the important part there is making the complete list, like with any other scientific approach.
1422072;1457124688;jurov;yes this needs some examples and i don't have it
1422073;1457124718;mircea_popescu;in the interim, http://36.media.tumblr.com/da92abb4cb83ac6ed09106da2fd1421e/tumblr_mlfknbycbE1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1422074;1457124720;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1L7ykEr )
1422075;1457125063;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suppose his idea is, in plainer english, that in principle fee is no deterrent, because if he makes 1mn txn that are all valid but spend the same inputs, only one can be eventgually mined and so he can create as many txn as he wants for you to relay and only pay the fee once, eventually. whereas only keeping the first seen one protects from this.
1422076;1457125107;mircea_popescu;how this is supposed to be an argument against sane design i have no idea, but whatevs, "kludge works for me" is how we get kludges ever since kludge one.
1422077;1457125552;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo what's the cannonical article re pres. bahamas, witgh the pic ? the asean one ? << yes
1422078;1457125578;mircea_popescu;plox to change ref then
1422079;1457125632;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422061 << i betcha that mircea_popescu could make an argument for nat! perhaps involving greek slavegurlz who can only speak outside the households through master's lips, or the like.
1422080;1457125632;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 20:46:43; jurov: why did you list NAT.ROUTERS?
1422081;1457125683;mircea_popescu;see also first paragraph of http://trilema.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/#comment-116653
1422082;1457125684;assbot;Please stop using DNS already, and other considerations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1XPA1bf )
1422083;1457125692;mircea_popescu;the current abomination was never intended re : internet.
1422084;1457125699;mircea_popescu;flatware etatist bullshit.
1422085;1457125721;asciilifeform;aha.
1422086;1457125768;asciilifeform;and it comes back to the tx thing like this: eventually we learn who shat out the million crud tx.
1422087;1457125780;asciilifeform;and stop peering with him.
1422088;1457125809;asciilifeform;and then he has to beg, to use the network at all.
1422089;1457125838;asciilifeform;the net-as-publictoilet era will end.
1422090;1457125849;asciilifeform;and good fucking riddance.
1422091;1457125938;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's no such actual thing as flatgraph - only star topology with thinly disguised star.
1422092;1457125980;mircea_popescu;<asciilifeform> the net-as-publictoilet era will e << and this is exactly the situation we have now, except we don't like the miners.
1422093;1457125993;asciilifeform;aha.
1422094;1457125999;mircea_popescu;the expectation you'll fix broken protocol sociall is inept.
1422095;1457126003;mircea_popescu;fix the protocol.
1422096;1457126016;asciilifeform;the ancient and inevitable pill for such situations is called:
1422097;1457126020;asciilifeform;war.
1422098;1457126066;mircea_popescu;war is the thing that happens when idiots fucked up the design.
1422099;1457126073;asciilifeform;aha.
1422100;1457126152;mircea_popescu;anyway, back to the issue. having nodes discard dupes is in principle stupid ; having nodes discard dupes on a first-seen basis is entirely warantless ; trying to run an implementation of this design will run into problems.
1422101;1457126158;asciilifeform;my point was, minertards won't go willingly into the good night.
1422102;1457126180;mircea_popescu;the problem ~MAY~ be that bitcoin transactions are dupe-able in the first place, for instance.\
1422103;1457126205;mircea_popescu;which is why bitcoin protocol discussions are so complex, and the whole thing so hard : because omfg, the complexity. you don't even rightly know where the problem comes from really, in the rat's nest.
1422104;1457126210;asciilifeform;(and the protocol actually selects for idiots, smart folks don't mine)
1422105;1457126274;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422102 << waiwut??
1422106;1457126274;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 21:16:20; mircea_popescu: the problem ~MAY~ be that bitcoin transactions are dupe-able in the first place, for instance.\
1422107;1457126285;asciilifeform;what's this mean
1422108;1457126287;mircea_popescu;yes, what ?
1422109;1457126370;mircea_popescu;for instance (and plox, before we run off with it - example only!) : if every tx was defined as "only 1 input - only 1 output" and if you wanted to make a larger payment youy'd have to make MULTIPLE txn, then a) the protocol would actually make a lot more sense, atomicity-wise and b) you wouldn't have the problems jurov describes. because pay x to y with fee z would exist EXACTLY one way.
1422110;1457126377;asciilifeform;bitstrings are 'dupable' by nature, bitcoin's whole purpose is to hack around this, to the extent physically possible, like a ship is a hack around the sea
1422111;1457126386;mircea_popescu;they don't have to be.
1422112;1457126456;asciilifeform;it still isn't '1 way' - sig nonce, timestamp, scriptolade...
1422113;1457126465;mircea_popescu;(yes i'm aware that the above example allows no payments other than in multiples of 50 btc for a while, then multiples of 25, and EVENTUALLY in sasothis. MIND YOU that this is a feature and what you are using now a bug - da fuck do you do when the coinbase is split up in all the satoshis it could be ? ha ? oh, "works for you as it is" ? ty.)
1422114;1457126470;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform none of that.
1422115;1457126506;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00055936 = 3.524 BTC [+]
1422116;1457126508;asciilifeform;i like unitary coinz.
1422117;1457126512;mircea_popescu;of course you do.
1422118;1457126523;mircea_popescu;because unlike shitforbrainsatosi stuff, they make sense.
1422119;1457126532;asciilifeform;my useless unpublished 'bitcoin' circa 07 - had.
1422120;1457126547;asciilifeform;unitaries.
1422121;1457126588;asciilifeform;like castle title.
1422122;1457126609;mircea_popescu;i just put that there to generally and pars pro toto show that when i say bitcoin is a steaming pile of shit, and broadly an undesigned kludge i mean very specific things.
1422123;1457126637;mircea_popescu;and derpy arguments "won" with me over the particular brokedness of the prototype implementation are roughly the same value and consistency as used toiletpaper.
1422124;1457126645;asciilifeform;i suspect that we all here know which.
1422125;1457126668;mircea_popescu;im not even sure I know which! there's too many. and the bitch with things like these is you always forget one.
1422126;1457126671;mircea_popescu;heck, i usually forget two.
1422127;1457126681;asciilifeform;bitcoin is a desperate wartime wunderwaffen.
1422128;1457126738;deedbot-;[Qntra] Hold on to your butts – Argentina is going on sale. - http://qntra.net/2016/03/hold-on-to-your-butts-argentina-is-going-on-sale/
1422129;1457126748;mircea_popescu;o hey! check me out i'm a qntra star!
1422130;1457126871;BingoBoingo;Seriously
1422131;1457126927;*;BingoBoingo wonders how hot a bride one can acquire from Argentina in 12 months by bartering a 40 foot container of nyger seed
1422132;1457126983;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i dun think they even ~make~ non-hot gurlz in ar
1422133;1457127003;asciilifeform;go, see.
1422134;1457127024;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Do two or three brides for a container of thistle seed is possibru?
1422135;1457127061;mircea_popescu;if you're not picky about tall, you can prolly have brides for the feeding.
1422136;1457127066;mircea_popescu;go to teh provinces.
1422137;1457127107;mircea_popescu;they don't make ~fat~ gurlz here. but they do make shorties.
1422138;1457127231;BingoBoingo;short's fine
1422139;1457127370;shinohai;Just realized I had a misspelling in that dpaste I sent BingoBoingo
1422140;1457127385;asciilifeform;i have nfi whether they make good pets tho
1422141;1457127412;shinohai;actually, two
1422142;1457127484;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Then just resubmit, haven't opened it yet.
1422143;1457127608;shinohai;ok one moment
1422144;1457127805;shinohai;BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/3PSTK7V
1422145;1457127807;assbot;dpaste: 3PSTK7V ... ( http://bit.ly/1LFuodR )
1422146;1457128283;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422109  << btw this doesn't cure doublespends.
1422147;1457128283;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 21:19:30; mircea_popescu: for instance (and plox, before we run off with it - example only!) : if every tx was defined as "only 1 input - only 1 output" and if you wanted to make a larger payment youy'd have to make MULTIPLE txn, then a) the protocol would actually make a lot more sense, atomicity-wise and b) you wouldn't have the problems jurov describes. because pay x to y with fee z would exist EXACTLY one way.
1422148;1457128311;asciilifeform;can still transmit 'x -> y' and 'x -> q'
1422149;1457128475;asciilifeform;where y != q
1422150;1457128582;asciilifeform;but verily, s put the turingcompleteness in the ONE place it least belonged, the tx processor.
1422151;1457128603;asciilifeform;rabid idiocy.
1422152;1457128719;asciilifeform;as we have it, comparing 2 tx is.. undecidable.
1422153;1457129195;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform as i said, just example.
1422154;1457129252;asciilifeform;aha
1422155;1457129276;mircea_popescu;at least on this design the problem is sanely approacheable - make address creation REASONABLY expensive, for SANE, DEFINED, PROTOCOL reasons.
1422156;1457129281;asciilifeform;it solves malleability- but not doubles
1422157;1457129294;mircea_popescu;not "why is it chained liek so ?" "uhhhh... [spittle dribbling]" as is currently the case.
1422158;1457129350;mircea_popescu;so that someone asking for a payment to address x already has skin in the game - whatever it cost him to make the address.
1422159;1457129397;asciilifeform;pow to make addr?
1422160;1457129401;mircea_popescu;why not ?
1422161;1457129406;asciilifeform;interesting idea
1422162;1457129410;mircea_popescu;i'm just saying - if you're actually designing, you DESIGN.
1422163;1457129422;mircea_popescu;if shit just falls on the ground and you try to pretend it's art, on the other hand...
1422164;1457129441;asciilifeform;aha. my design, for instance, had tx-as-integer
1422165;1457129449;asciilifeform;addr - prime
1422166;1457129496;asciilifeform;tx-making - modular exp.
1422167;1457129507;asciilifeform;you can sorta guess the rest.
1422168;1457129511;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Rewrite with an emphasis on how stupid everyone involved in this has to be for this shit to have even been uttered.
1422169;1457129553;shinohai;kk
1422170;1457129578;hanbot;<mircea_popescu> i did not. << you saw it, you didn't like it
1422171;1457129586;mircea_popescu;which one was this ?!
1422172;1457129624;hanbot;you know, where they got david bowie to play tesla.
1422173;1457129633;asciilifeform;it.
1422174;1457129635;mircea_popescu;oh the one with blondy whats her face ?
1422175;1457129674;hanbot;buncha sepia-toned stage magician stuffs with typical christopher nolan over-foreboding.
1422176;1457129677;asciilifeform;mentioned re: duplicates.
1422177;1457129677;hanbot;and yeah, her.
1422178;1457129679;BingoBoingo;shinohai: It's a lulzy thing, but it needs more of a hook
1422179;1457129684;mircea_popescu;yeah yeah, wanna-be the superimaginarium/illusionist except with very bad historic research.
1422180;1457129707;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it was so miserable i even deleted it from ram.
1422181;1457129712;mircea_popescu;doublespent!
1422182;1457129720;asciilifeform;imaginarium rocked.
1422183;1457129726;mircea_popescu;hard to beat.
1422184;1457129733;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Mebbe bring an actual pathogen into the discussion so as to contrast this herpajerk
1422185;1457129757;shinohai;I warned you I was a very green journalist.
1422186;1457129770;BingoBoingo;I know that's why now you gotta practiced.
1422187;1457129803;BingoBoingo;Since you submitted this I expect you to resumbit better this.
1422188;1457129874;*;BingoBoingo still awaits mp's Trilema review of the Verhoeven masterpiece Robocop 
1422189;1457129954;mircea_popescu;i loved that when i was... i dunno, 9 ?
1422190;1457129983;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38980 @ 0.00055831 = 21.7629 BTC [-] {2} 
1422191;1457130184;BingoBoingo;But did you write it up on Trilema when you were 9?
1422192;1457130245;mircea_popescu;nope. which may well mean it missed its chance
1422193;1457130289;BingoBoingo;Shame, the #b-a canon it poorer for it.
1422194;1457130325;mircea_popescu;you write it! you got a blog neh ?
1422195;1457130494;BingoBoingo;Ah, but that would be the lesser Bingo review of Robocop. What do you think authors are, fungible?
1422196;1457130677;shinohai;Shit bbib I need a drink.
1422197;1457130855;asciilifeform;http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=log << check out the claptrap.
1422198;1457130857;assbot;git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/log ... ( http://bit.ly/1VWTwNP )
1422199;1457131256;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: would be interesting if a valid addr  could only come to exist with a coinbase formation !
1422200;1457131319;asciilifeform;great plebespray.
1422201;1457131541;asciilifeform;perhaps i had everything backwards.. possibly, being  able to transact ~without~ mining, is the bug. not  mining...
1422202;1457131569;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68500 @ 0.00055791 = 38.2168 BTC [-] {5} 
1422203;1457131691;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00055747 = 12.7382 BTC [-]
1422204;1457131821;asciilifeform;http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=28e2513721ff0cec920564d4087f3600cce8672e << for fucks sake
1422205;1457131822;assbot;git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/1TwW9IF )
1422206;1457132279;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: now that's a thought-provoker.
1422207;1457132497;asciilifeform;~nobody wants to admit, but ~the~ mega-problem of bitcoin is... that it is FAR too accessible.
1422208;1457132506;trinque;This feature is independent of --use-tor and automagically uses Tor if available. << wahahahahaha
1422209;1457132550;asciilifeform;trinque: and he checks for it by running hardcoded shellout...
1422210;1457132652;trinque;who can discern malicious actor from useful idiot in this sea of shit
1422211;1457132664;mircea_popescu;<asciilifeform> perhaps i had everything backwards << which is exactly my metapoint here. for as long as such can occur, it is CLEAR we don't have the perimeter of this thing yet.
1422212;1457132696;asciilifeform;quite.
1422213;1457132722;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> ~nobody wants to admit << nobody wants to admit except for the guy that's been saying it for years. yeh!
1422214;1457132756;asciilifeform;but imho i found the '2nd law of thermo' in re bitcoin- the nothing-for-showing-up principle.
1422215;1457132774;mircea_popescu;may the historians long name you for it.
1422216;1457132774;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha 1 guy
1422217;1457132782;asciilifeform;l0l
1422218;1457132845;asciilifeform;trinque: what is the point of attempting this distinction?
1422219;1457132868;asciilifeform;!s wyatt dog
1422220;1457132869;assbot;4 results for 'wyatt dog' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=wyatt+dog
1422221;1457132892;mircea_popescu;"This patch also fixes a memory leak of opt.keyserver en passant." << first rule of koch, drepper, weiner & all nsa goons : ALWAYS bundle new vulns with memory leak fixes etc.
1422222;1457132896;trinque;most people are and have always been followers; it is the leaders who are the problem
1422223;1457132896;mircea_popescu;"en passant" indeed.
1422224;1457132899;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-02-2015#1014374
1422225;1457132899;assbot;Logged on 10-02-2015 03:25:08; mircea_popescu: this is like asking wyatt earp "how do you distinguish between the f brothers and stray dog"
1422226;1457132916;mircea_popescu;trinque no, this is certainly malicious to the hilt.
1422227;1457132928;asciilifeform;how else.
1422228;1457132929;shinohai;https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/segwit-forked-unexpectedly-on-testnet-t6111.html   <<< top kek
1422229;1457132930;assbot;SegWit forked unexpectedly on testnet - The Bitcoin Forum ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qrhyiv )
1422230;1457132930;mircea_popescu;nobody ever did or ever would do this combo except deliberately and for this reason.
1422231;1457132940;mircea_popescu;lol shinohai
1422232;1457132945;mircea_popescu;feel free to qntra, all the lulz.
1422233;1457132951;asciilifeform;anyway i have a fat bag of this horror
1422234;1457132970;asciilifeform;dug for ages.
1422235;1457132983;asciilifeform;thoroughly revolting.
1422236;1457133005;trinque;mircea_popescu: I see the malice in the act, but am commenting on the pervasiveness of propaganda such that malicious acts can be projected through many obedient, subservient nodes
1422237;1457133035;mircea_popescu;aha
1422238;1457133099;asciilifeform;e.g., usb (!!!) invocations
1422239;1457133117;asciilifeform;read, weep
1422240;1457133207;asciilifeform;how long, i wonder, has koch been dead.
1422241;1457133726;asciilifeform;http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c34711539fc2c34aea8da0fd49ae6aa28991518;hp=9f4f77bc4b8bf17010796fe3c2d23024047154ea
1422242;1457133726;assbot;git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commitdiff ... ( http://bit.ly/24GUC64 )
1422243;1457133735;asciilifeform;^ run moar dns
1422244;1457134070;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00055747 = 6.6896 BTC [-] {2} 
1422245;1457134200;asciilifeform;http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=7735bbe539af35ce16e270946d5ae798c5989d6e
1422246;1457134201;assbot;git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/24GVlEo )
1422247;1457134207;asciilifeform;'Remove gethostbyname hack;
1422248;1457134209;asciilifeform;we require getaddrinfo anyway.'
1422249;1457134287;asciilifeform;( he took it out in http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=927f34603d942868af6a7bd0f347681bbad76a94 --- and then put back !! )
1422250;1457134288;assbot;git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/24GVuaQ )
1422251;1457134319;asciilifeform;or hm.
1422252;1457134368;asciilifeform;http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=6fafda979df8e7e117f8e6929bcce89513a6e746 << refuses to BUILD if dns is not available.
1422253;1457134369;assbot;git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/24GVA2j )
1422254;1457134384;asciilifeform;'For dirmngr I made liberal use of getaddrinfo w/o
1422255;1457134405;asciilifeform;without checking.  Just in case someone tries to build on an old
1422256;1457134407;asciilifeform;platform we now error our with a suitable #error.'
1422257;1457134446;mircea_popescu;you know... we aren't using this shit for a [number of] reasons.
1422258;1457134463;asciilifeform;well yeah
1422259;1457134474;asciilifeform;but i can't fathom WHY he did it
1422260;1457134487;asciilifeform;or what, was impaled ?
1422261;1457134532;mircea_popescu;why. cuz he's an evil goatfucker.
1422262;1457134566;asciilifeform;was born one ?
1422263;1457134576;asciilifeform;if so, why did he write gpg to begin with, as disinfo ?
1422264;1457134619;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00055742 = 24.2901 BTC [-] {4} 
1422265;1457134726;mircea_popescu;you understand how virulence works in pathogens ?
1422266;1457134734;asciilifeform;i think so.
1422267;1457134748;asciilifeform;e.g., ebola burnout.
1422268;1457134751;mircea_popescu;he's a fuycking spirochete. does useful shit until govt shows up.
1422269;1457134882;mircea_popescu;one can have zona zooster by the pail in the system, nothing happens
1422270;1457134895;mircea_popescu;then one day you eat the wrong end of a lovage leaf and holy shit you're covered in hives.
1422271;1457134956;asciilifeform;is this a p450 thing ?
1422272;1457134970;asciilifeform;i could've sworn we had a thread.
1422273;1457134979;BingoBoingo;!s CYP450
1422274;1457134980;assbot;1 results for 'CYP450' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=CYP450
1422275;1457134989;BingoBoingo;!s CYP 450
1422276;1457134989;assbot;4 results for 'CYP 450' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=CYP+450
1422277;1457136312;danielpbarron;first!
1422278;1457137242;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055735 = 11.3142 BTC [-] {2} 
1422279;1457138982;danielpbarron;this having a blog thing is pretty sweet; wish I started it sooner! I got a finished article in the hopper, and a stub still to be fleshed out.
1422280;1457139034;danielpbarron;started with the impulse to post something on twatter, pasted it into a draft instead, and expanded from there.
1422281;1457139164;shinohai;I am trying your drink recipe tonight danielpbarron I think I got everything I needed.
1422282;1457139256;danielpbarron;neato
1422283;1457139433;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron> this having a blog thing is pretty sweet; wish I started it sooner!  << HA!
1422284;1457139433;shinohai;I was at the liquor store and was like "Hey danielpbarron made a blog post about some drink today, lemme try that!"
1422285;1457139926;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00055723 = 10.0859 BTC [-] {3} 
1422286;1457141693;shinohai;Disney, mircea_popescu style: http://i.4cdn.org/b/1457141383727.png
1422287;1457141694;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1oWMYUD )
1422288;1457142338;adlai;;;later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/97d7825e-3517-4ac0-b378-1d887d50b4d2/?raw=true
1422289;1457142340;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1oWO8zf )
1422290;1457142340;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422291;1457142485;adlai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422228 << they were using incompatible versions on the same network... what can be expected
1422292;1457142485;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 23:08:49; shinohai: https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/segwit-forked-unexpectedly-on-testnet-t6111.html   <<< top kek
1422293;1457142524;shinohai;Yeah upon further investigation I decided it was a non-event.
1422294;1457142624;adlai;the "double spend" is quite a oui-event, even if it was caused by pessimal interaction with eg sturles's node
1422295;1457143162;shinohai;This shit is fucking delicious danielpbarron
1422296;1457143204;shinohai;I am guaranteed kinky sex tonight when gf gets here and tastes it.
1422297;1457143372;adlai;danielpbarron: congratulations on getting the round tuit!
1422298;1457144166;danielpbarron;ty ty
1422299;1457144265;*;danielpbarron is now trying his first attempt at a sort-of cantarina (sort-of because apparently it's supposed to have club soda, although I'm not sure if that's a requirement, or if a side-effect of most bars not having fresh grapefruit and use a grapefruit flavored soda instead)
1422300;1457144318;danielpbarron;and to my surprise the quarter orange i decided to go with is not overpowered by the whole grapefruit or the half lime/lemon
1422301;1457144391;danielpbarron;heh, also tonight i learned that you do not want to squeeze a kiwi, but I have not yet ruled out muddling
1422302;1457144743;shinohai;lol
1422303;1457144806;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00055706 = 17.6031 BTC [-] {3} 
1422304;1457145856;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu broadcast sent !
1422305;1457145857;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422306;1457145925;asciilifeform;meanwhile, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69&cpage=1#comment-17594
1422307;1457145926;assbot;Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qx0oB9 )
1422308;1457145934;asciilifeform;what a high-ranking reich officer!
1422309;1457145943;asciilifeform;visits my obscure corner of the world.
1422310;1457145954;asciilifeform;supposing that it was him (the man doesn't pgp.)
1422311;1457146055;danielpbarron;contradiction! only men pgp
1422312;1457146170;adlai;fallacy! lack of female pgp speakers does not imply absence of male imbeciles
1422313;1457146190;asciilifeform;adlai: hey they aren't all extinct! there is still hanbot and diana_coman
1422314;1457146224;adlai;fallacies are usable on false axioms, too
1422315;1457146403;asciilifeform;;;later tell BingoBoingo megatonne of crapple trial crapolade on cryptome, if you still care
1422316;1457146403;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422317;1457147326;mircea_popescu;there's plenty of women using pgp.
1422318;1457147351;mircea_popescu;and who the fuck is peter norvig anyway ?
1422319;1457147361;asciilifeform;google cto.
1422320;1457147368;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00055921 = 2.852 BTC [+] {2} 
1422321;1457147380;mircea_popescu;yeah yeah, and bullshit textbook on ai that leads nowhere.
1422322;1457147386;asciilifeform;and author of a really great schoolbook circa 1991, and a terrifyingly abysmal one in 1997.
1422323;1457147397;mircea_popescu;here's a hint : google search quality peaked in 2001
1422324;1457147411;asciilifeform;feedstock quality peaked in '93.
1422325;1457147590;mircea_popescu;anyway, "we own him now" "heh" "and this is why we bought usernet archive, too" "get lost" "why won't you think we're cool!" "because you're old, and lame, and smell bad"
1422326;1457147621;asciilifeform;somethinglikethat.
1422327;1457147631;asciilifeform;and herr norvig, if indeed it is him, is on a comcast line.
1422328;1457147639;asciilifeform;(as was cia director!)
1422329;1457147641;asciilifeform;go figure.
1422330;1457147648;asciilifeform;i'd demand at least a t3 in his place.
1422331;1457147654;asciilifeform;srsly, wtf.
1422332;1457147734;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25866 @ 0.00055584 = 14.3774 BTC [-] {4} 
1422333;1457147746;mircea_popescu;i don't think you understand how the world works.
1422334;1457147751;mircea_popescu;and - more importantly - why.
1422335;1457147764;asciilifeform;evidently.
1422336;1457147792;asciilifeform;but sure, i get it, molotov didn't even get to demand that his wife be let go from gulag.
1422337;1457147794;asciilifeform;much less t3.
1422338;1457147821;mircea_popescu;this is important. not for the "good of the people", as it is broadly misdirected - but for the continued delusion of the imbeciles in question.
1422339;1457147834;mircea_popescu;by NOT getting t3, norvig thinks EVEN MORE of the imbecile system he's plugged into.
1422340;1457147843;asciilifeform;now i'm lost.
1422341;1457147845;asciilifeform;how does this work.
1422342;1457147849;mircea_popescu;because he is, fundamentally, a woman, of that miserable, medieval kind. you gotta beat her.
1422343;1457147864;asciilifeform;isn't being a bureaucrat, beating enough ?
1422344;1457147867;mircea_popescu;creo quia absurdum est and all that crap.
1422345;1457147875;mircea_popescu;mno. people get used to it.
1422346;1457147897;mircea_popescu;why ~the fuck~ do you suppose the koreans gotta do ever more inane absurd shit ? isn't being a korean bad enough ?
1422347;1457147902;asciilifeform;they also get used to 'comcast.'
1422348;1457147902;mircea_popescu;no, it never lasts.
1422349;1457147914;mircea_popescu;which is why they'll get moved to dormitories in due time.
1422350;1457147927;mircea_popescu;and then chair seats will be replaced with dildoes.
1422351;1457147938;mircea_popescu;this is why they gotta fucking come up with a "cultural war" about sitting in the fucking bus.
1422352;1457147965;asciilifeform;which, as far as i can tell, does not yet protrude into meatspace in a way visible to naked eye
1422353;1457147966;asciilifeform;yet.
1422354;1457147983;mircea_popescu;you just saw it with naked eye ?
1422355;1457147993;asciilifeform;possibly.
1422356;1457148011;mircea_popescu;norvig can, on the basis of his achievements such as they are, live a life his father would have thought good enough for a blue colar laborer.
1422357;1457148016;mircea_popescu;this, not protrude ?
1422358;1457148017;asciilifeform;but for all i know, this norvig is a joker and the real norvig is with his harem.
1422359;1457148030;mircea_popescu;sure.
1422360;1457148038;mircea_popescu;because obama has a harem, right ?
1422361;1457148069;asciilifeform;l0l, lacking an intel dept., i can't be entirely certain that he does not.
1422362;1457148076;asciilifeform;but will take mircea_popescu's word.
1422363;1457148091;mircea_popescu;a HAREM. not a bevy of women to fuck. a harem.
1422364;1457148114;mircea_popescu;it is an institution. it is when a man is invited to seat at a table, and he explains that "you will have to seat five women, because i am not married - i am haremed."
1422365;1457148115;asciilifeform;then sure.
1422366;1457148148;asciilifeform;fair'nuff.
1422367;1457148150;mircea_popescu;it is when a man ridicules the nuttery of singles marriage, openly, and doesn't entertain it, openly. it's some luxuries no us president ever had.
1422368;1457148152;mircea_popescu;because poverty.
1422369;1457148194;asciilifeform;kennedy prolly could've, if he weren't stuck caesaropapisming in a weird religion.
1422370;1457148209;mircea_popescu;but he DIDNT. he pretended that mudsickle of jackie is an actual woman.
1422371;1457148220;asciilifeform;aha.
1422372;1457148233;mircea_popescu;did he say, on tv, "bitch you either eat out marylin or ima flay you alive and hang your disgusting carcass by the south gate" ?
1422373;1457148380;asciilifeform;obligatory:
1422374;1457148381;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JduR-9sHk8w
1422375;1457148382;assbot;Mayor McCheese Gets Assassinated - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1YdpiHN )
1422376;1457148419;asciilifeform;http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/15900000/Mayor-McCheese-Assassination-family-guy-15951987-505-304.jpg << for those without video
1422377;1457148420;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ydpozf )
1422378;1457148438;asciilifeform;for n00bz: reference to jackie having actually picked up pieces of jfk's brain and tried to stuff back in!
1422379;1457148483;mircea_popescu;well... that i can see.
1422380;1457148598;mircea_popescu;dude the junk on your blog's unreadable. /me made the mistake to try to wade through comments.
1422381;1457148608;asciilifeform;ahahahaha
1422382;1457148613;mircea_popescu;i recall trying this once before, yars ago, and not being quite as oripilated.
1422383;1457148619;asciilifeform;it was always.
1422384;1457148621;mircea_popescu;i think b-a is ruining me for interidiotnet.
1422385;1457148629;asciilifeform;where, precisely, are the non-junk comments to come from ?
1422386;1457148656;mircea_popescu;pff, check it out, english spells it with h ? horripilated ? tsk.
1422387;1457148696;mircea_popescu;(ancient latin word - horror-haired)
1422388;1457152370;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26840 @ 0.00055642 = 14.9343 BTC [+] {3} 
1422389;1457157963;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] In which a couple of car guys discuss computers. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/05/in-which-a-couple-of-car-guys-discuss-computers/
1422390;1457160788;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00055543 = 11.4974 BTC [-] {3} 
1422391;1457162070;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26066 @ 0.00055461 = 14.4565 BTC [-] {3} 
1422392;1457163411;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5059 @ 0.00055484 = 2.8069 BTC [-]
1422393;1457165241;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16174 @ 0.00055567 = 8.9874 BTC [+]
1422394;1457166583;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.00055484 = 1.5813 BTC [-]
1422395;1457166766;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00055567 = 7.0292 BTC [+]
1422396;1457167559;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00055484 = 13.9265 BTC [-]
1422397;1457168535;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28600 @ 0.00055443 = 15.8567 BTC [-] {5} 
1422398;1457168962;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00055421 = 13.4673 BTC [-] {2} 
1422399;1457169694;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00055566 = 1.3614 BTC [+] {2} 
1422400;1457169755;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9616 @ 0.00055421 = 5.3293 BTC [-]
1422401;1457170427;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00055421 = 5.6529 BTC [-]
1422402;1457170915;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00055567 = 15.2254 BTC [+]
1422403;1457174054;jurov;asciilifeform: nice. maybe put the gpg horrors on qntra or loperos?
1422404;1457178662;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00055488 = 4.3836 BTC [-]
1422405;1457180736;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00055488 = 10.4872 BTC [-]
1422406;1457183493;mircea_popescu;not a bad idea.
1422407;1457183775;mircea_popescu;http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-05.log.html#t05:02:16 << in other news, eulora has progressed to feudalism, has actual redditor serfs and everything.
1422408;1457183776;assbot;#Eulora log for Saturday, 2016-03-05 ... ( http://bit.ly/1prsjZ9 )
1422409;1457183795;mircea_popescu;the rumour goes countess diana_coman bathory bathes in virgins' blood to maintain her youth etc.
1422410;1457184755;diana_coman;bwahahaha AND I teach him ...percentages!
1422411;1457184757;diana_coman;of all things
1422412;1457184910;mircea_popescu;:)
1422413;1457184920;mircea_popescu;algebra ii ? how unpatriotic!
1422414;1457185738;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15592 @ 0.00055492 = 8.6523 BTC [+] {3} 
1422415;1457185816;shinohai;;;later tell BingoBoingo I couldn't come up with a lulzy enough filler for that story so gonna pass it on to whoever wants it.
1422416;1457185817;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422417;1457185963;shinohai;https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/492b8r/bitcoin_bounty_offered_of_14_bitcoins/   " I sent them a text calling them a Pig Fucker"
1422418;1457185964;assbot;Bitcoin Bounty Offered of 14 Bitcoins : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1X1Yw41 )
1422419;1457186357;mircea_popescu;shinohai plox to offer short intro for redditard/other tard links. i ended up looking at that only to see that, typical for the mob, it's not any sort of bounty, but a conditional offer predicated on the impossible.
1422420;1457186375;mircea_popescu;"I am offering a 14 Bitcoin Bounty leading to the arrest, conviction, AND return of my 28 Bitcoins that were stolen from me." << fancy that idiocy.
1422421;1457186401;shinohai;Sounds like one of Roger Ver's "Bounties"
1422422;1457186432;mircea_popescu;"i think i'm mp to offer bounties. what, i should have money ?"
1422423;1457186447;mircea_popescu;then the same fucking idiots come by to "comment" on shit i do. as if we're all people now or something, in the same sense.
1422424;1457186483;shinohai;I'll be damned if I help someone that stores 28 Bitcoin in an online wallet
1422425;1457186500;shinohai;Even if I had a magical way to recover said BTC
1422426;1457186591;asciilifeform;betcha some miraculously not-yet-dekulakized 'earlyadopt' scum - keeps 1000s in a gox.
1422427;1457186603;punkman;if anyone's selling 100eur notes for 50eur, I'll buy all of them
1422428;1457186631;punkman;maybe I should post a reddit bounty
1422429;1457186645;mircea_popescu;^
1422430;1457186657;asciilifeform;(imho every tardwallet thing oughta be called a gox)
1422431;1457186663;mircea_popescu;then they wonder why people think they're idiots.
1422432;1457186689;shinohai;But this guy wants his Bitcoins arrested and convicted the way the sentence reads.
1422433;1457186852;mircea_popescu;i'm offering 14 btc for the arrest and conviction of this particular redditard by isis
1422434;1457186856;mircea_popescu;payable upon beheading.
1422435;1457186861;mircea_popescu;what the everloving fuck.
1422436;1457186973;*;asciilifeform still waiting for pubkey written in piles of known heads on camera
1422437;1457186999;asciilifeform;or dictated by gurgling famous captives
1422438;1457187006;asciilifeform;on stakes
1422439;1457187186;mircea_popescu;as if washington has a key.
1422440;1457187194;mircea_popescu;fuck them, fiat states, who cares. "legal process" or w/e.
1422441;1457187344;asciilifeform;washington has no key, but a snitch can walk into any of 1,000,001 gestapo ratholes and chat.
1422442;1457187370;mircea_popescu;so ?
1422443;1457187397;mircea_popescu;obama joining from obama@whitehouse.org is in no better position than random derp joining from anon@isis.ir
1422444;1457187404;asciilifeform;and washington doesn't pgpsign, but somehow it is always very easy to distinguish its spew from all other.
1422445;1457187455;mircea_popescu;only detrimentally.
1422446;1457187485;mircea_popescu;just like should we look for places to poison mice, we'll go by the holes ; but should we look for a hero mice to reward with a wheel of cheese - we won't notice the holes.
1422447;1457187619;asciilifeform;no shit
1422448;1457187638;asciilifeform;but are there such things as heroic mice.
1422449;1457187673;asciilifeform;and if there are, they have own keys.
1422450;1457187885;mircea_popescu;aha
1422451;1457188300;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00055488 = 11.1531 BTC [-]
1422452;1457188968;jurov;https://medium.com/@barmstrong/what-happened-at-the-satoshi-roundtable-6c11a10d8cdf#.bgn65l10p
1422453;1457188969;assbot;What Happened At The Satoshi Roundtable — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsDGsQ )
1422454;1457188981;jurov;"Bitcoin Classic is ready and being run in production today by a number of bitcoin companies. Bitcoin Core has produced no such option that is production ready, and seems committed to putting out sub-optimal solutions that I described above."
1422455;1457188991;jurov;bezzle-ready!
1422456;1457189005;mircea_popescu;pfff.
1422457;1457189028;mircea_popescu;jurov feel free to fuzz, crashing it every which way will make a somewhat lulzy qntra piece
1422458;1457189034;mircea_popescu;or mats or anyone else so inclined.
1422459;1457189048;mircea_popescu;rather low hanging fruit, that sort of inept claim. classic is about as production ready as windows 7.
1422460;1457189090;asciilifeform;i thought 'classic' was just normal prb but with 2mb constant.
1422461;1457189119;mircea_popescu;eh they have nfi what they're doing. classic is essentially a social media campaign.
1422462;1457189132;mircea_popescu;by idea guys for idea guys.
1422463;1457189142;mircea_popescu;totally ready for "running in production" by other idea guys.
1422464;1457189188;asciilifeform;how hard to twiddle a knob.
1422465;1457189215;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13490 @ 0.00055567 = 7.496 BTC [+]
1422466;1457189218;asciilifeform;or, what, there is other nonsense in there, not only phatblox?
1422467;1457189254;asciilifeform;'scorpions were not enough, also needs rusty nails'
1422468;1457189283;kakobrekla;;;ticker
1422469;1457189285;gribble;Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 394.26, Best ask: 394.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 394.25, 24 hour volume: 38813.97070032, 24 hour low: 391.5, 24 hour high: 421.7, 24 hour vwap: None
1422470;1457189337;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00055567 = 11.1134 BTC [+]
1422471;1457189471;mircea_popescu;^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly.
1422472;1457189497;mircea_popescu;bitcoin as it currently stands is a very iffy proposition. it ~absolutely~ requires the bricking of current miners to have a chance, and major protocol rewrites.
1422473;1457189583;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you divest, what'll you nuke it with?
1422474;1457189599;mircea_popescu;slownuke.
1422475;1457189605;mircea_popescu;let the fucktards meet the halving on halved prices.
1422476;1457189630;mircea_popescu;oh herp derp we are miners and making conferences ? fucking death warrant you've signed there boys.
1422477;1457189703;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5993 @ 0.00055486 = 3.3253 BTC [-] {2} 
1422478;1457189723;asciilifeform;who ever heard of a slow nuke. dontcha want the panic stampede?
1422479;1457189730;mircea_popescu;nope.
1422480;1457189764;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16927 @ 0.00055404 = 9.3782 BTC [-] {4} 
1422481;1457189779;asciilifeform;but this way the idiots can carry on thinking 'it just happened because the winds blew'
1422482;1457189790;mircea_popescu;and you see a problem with this ?
1422483;1457189845;asciilifeform;aha, when you kill a derp, you do it on the public stake, not by dropping a snowstorm on him, no?
1422484;1457189864;mircea_popescu;except i couldn't care less about the derps. what, you think they're people or something ?
1422485;1457189899;asciilifeform;they're this thing that watches the public stake and follows power?
1422486;1457189912;asciilifeform;or do i catastrophically misunderstand.
1422487;1457189926;mircea_popescu;well, if they had been following power they'd be sending their irs receipts to me rather than obama.
1422488;1457189947;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3637 @ 0.00055377 = 2.0141 BTC [-]
1422489;1457189950;mircea_popescu;mno, they don't watch anything, just keep humming this tune in their head. which is perfectly fine and utterly uninteresting.
1422490;1457190023;asciilifeform;and just last night mircea_popescu was reminding me of e folly of throwing away old razor for incomplete lisp razor
1422491;1457190045;asciilifeform;if bitcoin is yielded to usg, with what is new one to be built?
1422492;1457190055;mircea_popescu;eh, usg isn't even a player.
1422493;1457190095;asciilifeform;with what is the forkwar to be fought?
1422494;1457190095;mircea_popescu;some idiot somewhere last year looked at whatever the fuck they look at and came to the conclusion that "we'll win this one apple - style, vc and software plox!"
1422495;1457190096;mircea_popescu;idjits.
1422496;1457190120;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform by the looks of it, roughly around july there will be an open competition of ~myriad forks on the market.
1422497;1457190133;mircea_popescu;ideally trb will at that time be ready to propose one of its own.
1422498;1457190138;BingoBoingo;;;later tell asciilifeform about crapple trial see http://qntra.net/2016/02/fbi-iphone-circle-jerk-theater/ for my perspective. *Interesting* other perspectives welcome.
1422499;1457190139;assbot;FBI iPhone Circle Jerk Theater | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsG7LR )
1422500;1457190139;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422501;1457190216;mircea_popescu;;;google site:trilema.com consumers revolt
1422502;1457190217;gribble;B,TMSR~ and fundamental justice reform. on Trilema - A blog by ...: <http://trilema.com/2015/btmsr-and-fundamental-justice-reform/>; Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility - Mircea Popescu: <http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/>
1422503;1457190222;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: so babelocalypse?
1422504;1457190230;mircea_popescu;2nd one. not exactly news, this, is it ? was on the books for 3 years.
1422505;1457190265;mircea_popescu;i even got the timing almost right. half month precision over 3 years in bitcoin is pretty impressive.
1422506;1457190302;mircea_popescu;it is just about absolutely clear for me that bitcoin, just like any other technology to date, brings about absolutely no betterment for the common man.
1422507;1457190323;mircea_popescu;strictly because the common man is an unrepentant imbecile proud of his imbecility, but that's a secondary consideration.
1422508;1457190370;asciilifeform;so in what sense would it be worth anyone's time to work on satoshi's turd
1422509;1457190399;mircea_popescu;in what sense is it worth anyone's time to do anything ?
1422510;1457190433;asciilifeform;in the sense where the great satan is the common enemy of all thinking people?
1422511;1457190439;mircea_popescu;aite then.
1422512;1457190552;asciilifeform;gonna be interesting to see btc at fiddycents, kakobrekla , jurov, will get day jobs?
1422513;1457190578;asciilifeform;who is to make wunderwaffen then.
1422514;1457190586;kakobrekla;its barrel time!
1422515;1457190590;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, by himself?
1422516;1457190606;mircea_popescu;i thought you didn't have any, didn't care to have any and didn't etc ?
1422517;1457190609;asciilifeform;or me, with my toes
1422518;1457190612;jurov;lol yea, day job almost happened last year
1422519;1457190628;asciilifeform;well that's why i didn't mention me
1422520;1457190635;asciilifeform;i came pre-fucked
1422521;1457190645;mircea_popescu;anyway, no fiddy cents. coupla hundy should be enough. miners can't actually support their shit even at current prices, if it halves.
1422522;1457190676;asciilifeform;it'll be cents once gavn phorks and mircea_popescu has no nuke.
1422523;1457190687;mircea_popescu;everyone forks.
1422524;1457190736;mircea_popescu;and honestly, what the everloving fuck do i care. bitcoin with mining cartel is literally, and i do mean LITERALLY just a very slow, unreliable and expensive visa run by idiots.
1422525;1457190747;asciilifeform;the value pumped into the old btc will go to hitler.
1422526;1457190748;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> jurov feel free to fuzz, crashing it every which way will make a somewhat lulzy qntra piece << Jurov takes are always welcome
1422527;1457190768;*;BingoBoingo also doesn't recall seeing a mats piece yet
1422528;1457190777;mircea_popescu;technically the value pumped into the old btc all comes from hitler anyway. what, ustard has money now ?
1422529;1457190816;mircea_popescu;the intellectual value of the work trying to get it to work goes to that great place in the sky where everyone's work ever goes, gauss, newton, who have you.
1422530;1457190818;*;asciilifeform has nfi.
1422531;1457190851;asciilifeform;so trb foundation closes today?
1422532;1457190876;mircea_popescu;it does ?
1422533;1457190887;asciilifeform;well this is implied?
1422534;1457190892;mircea_popescu;how ?
1422535;1457190924;mircea_popescu;i suppose IF the july many-fork time comes and trb has nothing to offer then it might as well close.
1422536;1457190956;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422471 + http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422529 ?
1422537;1457190956;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 14:51:11; mircea_popescu: ^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly.
1422538;1457190956;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 15:13:36; mircea_popescu: the intellectual value of the work trying to get it to work goes to that great place in the sky where everyone's work ever goes, gauss, newton, who have you.
1422539;1457190987;asciilifeform;and there is no way in hell that adacoin by july, unless mircea_popescu writes it himself...
1422540;1457191020;mircea_popescu;well, not like it HAS to close. it can also continue doing what it did for the ~first half year of its existence, which is to say critique whatever prb
1422541;1457191040;asciilifeform;i would like to be wrong about this. but i see no parachute.
1422542;1457191047;mircea_popescu;that was not yet called either prb or core or anything, because before we came and crackd the nut, inanities avbout how "only one bitcoin software" still had currency amongthe ruminant herd.
1422543;1457191083;asciilifeform;critique 1,000,001 blooming flowers of idiocy?
1422544;1457191089;mircea_popescu;yeao
1422545;1457191092;mircea_popescu;p*
1422546;1457191185;asciilifeform;they have infinite hitpoint. as mircea_popescu taught us.
1422547;1457191197;mircea_popescu;quite.
1422548;1457191199;asciilifeform;what'd be the point?
1422549;1457191222;BingoBoingo;Outlasting? Isn't that the point of every cult?
1422550;1457191223;mircea_popescu;mircea_popescu> in what sense is it worth anyone's time to do anything ?
1422551;1457191248;asciilifeform;to kill hitler.
1422552;1457191259;mircea_popescu;outlasting is, as far as one can discern, the implicit goal of life on earth.
1422553;1457191266;mircea_popescu;cult or no cult, culture or no culture.
1422554;1457191337;mircea_popescu;anyway, to the more general point : all our understanding as to how bitcoin should work, see for instance yest discussion, comes from dissecting how prototype-bitcoin did in fact work.
1422555;1457191357;mircea_popescu;as much as we'd love to suck our own cocks, while we readily agree TODAY that "should be so and so", we'd have had no such agreement a decade ago.
1422556;1457191382;mircea_popescu;no work done on satoshi codebase has yet been wasted, except that done for other people than us, or outside of b-a.
1422557;1457191428;asciilifeform;bitcoin was really 2 things
1422558;1457191438;asciilifeform;1) this prototype.
1422559;1457191466;asciilifeform;2) a desperate wartime wunderwaffen that allowed for some temporary sanity
1422560;1457191481;asciilifeform;e.g., kakobrekla without dayjob
1422561;1457191486;mircea_popescu;well, yeah, but that 2 sunk meanwhile.
1422562;1457191500;asciilifeform;and other folks at least working towards kakoization.
1422563;1457191600;mircea_popescu;anyway, relax, you got plenty of time.
1422564;1457191637;asciilifeform;time to do what ?
1422565;1457191646;asciilifeform;buy coin at 400 so i can pay rent with it at 0.50 ?
1422566;1457191647;mircea_popescu;what do you think this is, some sort of cult ?
1422567;1457191654;mircea_popescu;we don't answer that kinda q for you.
1422568;1457191771;mircea_popescu;anyway, what you're missing, perhaps on account of age, is that... well... i recall hanging out with kakobrekla back when bitcoin was 2 dollars.
1422569;1457191777;mircea_popescu;didn't seem to make so much difference.
1422570;1457191807;mircea_popescu;actually - much fewer idiots then, of the purely idiotarian type. of course all sorts of actual idiots seemed quite reasonable, pleasant folk, but what can you do.
1422571;1457191842;asciilifeform;fewer still in '93.
1422572;1457191844;mircea_popescu;(and yes, it was 2 dollars +-10% for a straight year)
1422573;1457191860;asciilifeform;the issue is not that walking the earth sux. the issue is splat from an airplane.
1422574;1457191878;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1422575;1457191889;asciilifeform;but at any rate, it isn't my toy, the owners can break it if they want.
1422576;1457191910;mircea_popescu;free market will provide right ?
1422577;1457191918;asciilifeform;but i for one don't see anyone winning from this but usg.
1422578;1457191924;mircea_popescu;kinda what i was going to say next, "don't worry too much, things have a way of sorting themselves out"
1422579;1457191939;mircea_popescu;eh, costco is a more likely winner than usg.
1422580;1457191943;mircea_popescu;a more significant player, also.
1422581;1457191946;asciilifeform;and costco is something other than usg ?
1422582;1457191953;asciilifeform;all tentacles of fiat are the same animal.
1422583;1457191955;mircea_popescu;fine, fine, asda.
1422584;1457191966;mircea_popescu;ok, ok, prince ibrahim the unknown al saud.
1422585;1457191970;mircea_popescu;still ?
1422586;1457191973;asciilifeform;still.
1422587;1457191975;asciilifeform;absolutely.
1422588;1457191984;mircea_popescu;the problem here might be psychogenic.
1422589;1457191991;asciilifeform;all confiscatable money is the same.
1422590;1457192009;mircea_popescu;lol yeeeeah, that worked really well with the embargo and all lol. anyway.
1422591;1457192026;mircea_popescu;rajit imberdejit, a 2nd vice-governor of uttar pradesh
1422592;1457192042;asciilifeform;if u.s. dept of state can take his goats, he is the same as costco.
1422593;1457192058;asciilifeform;ditto if moscow can.
1422594;1457192058;mircea_popescu;us dept of state can do ~ nothing, but direct the dod to lose some more items .
1422595;1457192583;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Maybe you are stuck between a rock and a need for vacation?
1422596;1457192631;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14346 @ 0.00055734 = 7.9956 BTC [+] {4} 
1422597;1457192655;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i will have vacation when i'm dead.
1422598;1457192658;asciilifeform;can't afford it.
1422599;1457192675;deedbot-;[Qntra] Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% - http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/
1422600;1457192719;BingoBoingo;I mean the vacation that lets you afford other vacations. You know the one where you sit in a cabin to make trb fork. Not full adacoin, but the possibility of adacoin.
1422601;1457192721;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/33D5WNW.txt
1422602;1457192722;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ru9cV2 )
1422603;1457192722;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422604;1457192742;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: unless it pays immediately, i can't afford it.
1422605;1457192749;asciilifeform;i am not mircea_popescu, and have no wiggle room.
1422606;1457193054;mircea_popescu;http://dpaste.com/0V66S68.txt < asciilifeform
1422607;1457193055;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ru9yuC )
1422608;1457193089;BingoBoingo;;;later tell shinohai Fine. I'll show you how to juice that headline with a story in under 100 words, just to intoduce a target.
1422609;1457193090;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1422610;1457193113;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i agree. but it means a very tight belt.
1422611;1457193650;mircea_popescu;deedbot-> [Qntra] Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% <<< curious if the drops till july will add up to 50% or not.
1422612;1457193658;mircea_popescu;seems somewhat likely
1422613;1457194763;BingoBoingo;In other news looks like OpenBSD Vax is ending at 5.9 as Vax hardware reaches end of operating afterlife.
1422614;1457195390;deedbot-;[Trilema] No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January - February 2016 Joint Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/
1422615;1457195560;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo et al : http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/#comment-47861
1422616;1457195561;assbot;Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X2gQd2 )
1422617;1457195603;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/#comment-47862
1422618;1457195604;assbot;Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X2gSSs )
1422619;1457195697;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/#comment-47863
1422620;1457195698;assbot;Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X2h3wQ )
1422621;1457195722;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox fix 'subsidize'
1422622;1457195726;asciilifeform;ty
1422623;1457195767;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422613 << iirc there is an acceptably good emulator, but this would sorta defeat the purpose
1422624;1457195767;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 16:19:23; BingoBoingo: In other news looks like OpenBSD Vax is ending at 5.9 as Vax hardware reaches end of operating afterlife.
1422625;1457195776;BingoBoingo;yes
1422626;1457195804;BingoBoingo;I'll dig up the archive of the theo mail but he sent it today if anyone else wants to dig first
1422627;1457195831;BingoBoingo;fxd
1422628;1457195968;deedbot-;[Qntra] Frontier County Prosecutor Alleges Circle Jerk iPhone Carries "Cyber Pathogens" - http://qntra.net/2016/03/frontier-county-prosecutor-alleges-circle-jerk-iphone-carries-cyber-pathogens/
1422629;1457195969;BingoBoingo;^ shinohai see above, maybe get a blog to practice the writing thing on not-news so that you may better news.
1422630;1457196120;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: incidentally, nowhere in volkischer beobachter will you find mention of the 100s of folks who mailed in offers to usg to root the pnohe with the very simple nand flash removal method.
1422631;1457196126;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: See https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=145715162325192&w=2 and following message in thread
1422632;1457196132;asciilifeform;(because the case is not about any of this idiocy, but something else)
1422633;1457196143;BingoBoingo;yes
1422634;1457196154;BingoBoingo;because Hegelian social engineering
1422635;1457196167;BingoBoingo;outcome doesn't matter, but conversation in the media is everything
1422636;1457196181;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.27408011 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b127
1422637;1457196321;BingoBoingo;lulz from mircea_popescu's qntra adventure in Argentina https://archive.is/oSlsr
1422638;1457196322;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U1LkwH )
1422639;1457196367;mircea_popescu;awww, argentards dun like to hear ?
1422640;1457196374;mircea_popescu;so surprise much wow.
1422641;1457196400;mircea_popescu;amusingly enough, does retard-argentina have more retards than retard-buttcoin ?
1422642;1457196406;BingoBoingo;I'm honestly pleased that the spanish used it so simple as to be easily and painlessly read without translating thinking
1422643;1457196795;asciilifeform;!up Sheepola
1422644;1457197161;thestringpuller;BingoBoingo: i'm half tempted to temporarily lower my iq with drugs just to understand "them" better...
1422645;1457197174;thestringpuller;i guess this is where the phrase, "Can I get what you're somking" comes from
1422646;1457197186;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: they don't make dope this strong, you will need head+brickwall
1422647;1457197241;thestringpuller;sounds like a temporary solutions with long term health side effects
1422648;1457197346;BingoBoingo;Increase velocity and it can be permanent
1422649;1457197537;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/225HX7Q.txt << lulz from btc-e crudbox. apparently they make filipinos in ru.
1422650;1457197538;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21QyX9m )
1422651;1457197573;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00055377 = 9.1649 BTC [-] {2} 
1422652;1457197623;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Didn't SU have it's own philipino style satellite?
1422653;1457197637;asciilifeform;wut?
1422654;1457197705;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You know. One it converts to speaking ru while leaving to maintain it's tribal intellectual poverty. Maybe the Aleuts or something? Or did RU/SU not do this?
1422655;1457197717;asciilifeform;nope.
1422656;1457197752;BingoBoingo;Ah
1422657;1457197961;BingoBoingo;alf you may appreciate this wholesale name theft https://archive.is/yFJXz
1422658;1457197962;assbot;Ubitquity Releases ‘Revolutionary’ Blockchain Real Estate Platform - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/21QzU1i )
1422659;1457197982;asciilifeform;snore.
1422660;1457198002;BingoBoingo;Stole name from Ubitquiti
1422661;1457198011;BingoBoingo;snore, but shows advancing lack of shame
1422662;1457198034;BingoBoingo;Or peril of naming yourself almost a dictionary word
1422663;1457199078;jurov;http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/04/france_to_jail_tech_execs_over_encryption davout wtf?
1422664;1457199079;assbot;French parliament votes to jail tech execs who refuse to decrypt data • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/21QCKDz )
1422665;1457199698;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] The mega-problem of bitcoin - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-mega-problem-of-bitcoin/
1422666;1457200166;asciilifeform;;;isup danielpbarron.com
1422667;1457200169;gribble;danielpbarron.com is down
1422668;1457200185;asciilifeform;danielpbarron ^
1422669;1457200309;danielpbarron;well that's odd.. i'm ircing from the same ip
1422670;1457200333;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: seems like your www serv fell down.
1422671;1457200461;danielpbarron;very strange, I can ping it on my local network, but can't ssh to it
1422672;1457200829;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: are you sure you have enough RAM on pogo to serve wordpress?
1422673;1457200909;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: You may have to flense your wordpress further or consider an alternate blogotron based off of werc (Which I have been thinking about but have lacked the chance to explore myself yet)
1422674;1457200942;danielpbarron;well why has it been working up till now? did so many try to load that at once?
1422675;1457200980;BingoBoingo;It's likely on 256 MB of RAM that that would have knocked down your www tron
1422676;1457201003;asciilifeform;128
1422677;1457201027;BingoBoingo;Aha
1422678;1457201050;danielpbarron;pretty sure i had swap actived on that one
1422679;1457201069;BingoBoingo;But pogo-speed swap...
1422680;1457201099;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: Anyways the first place to look at flensing wordpress is your theme.
1422681;1457201121;BingoBoingo;Reduce the number of php calls it needs to do to look the way it does
1422682;1457201354;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00055377 = 8.3342 BTC [-]
1422683;1457201559;mircea_popescu;lol france
1422684;1457201608;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> nope. << orly ? ukr ?
1422685;1457201647;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: where ru built everything that distinguishes it from zimbabwe? please play again.
1422686;1457201676;mircea_popescu;how are the phillipines distinguished from kenya ?
1422687;1457201705;asciilifeform;well there is a dimm on my desk stamped 'made in philippines.' there is not, and i looked, one 'made in kenya'.
1422688;1457201729;mircea_popescu;" where ru built everything that distinguishes it from zimbabwe?"
1422689;1457201740;mircea_popescu;don't tell me lazy ladybois did that!
1422690;1457201827;asciilifeform;100% of what sets the ukrs - quite temporarily - above the monkeys in the zoo, is of su design and manufacture.
1422691;1457201854;asciilifeform;and yes, largely by long-dead folks.
1422692;1457201866;mircea_popescu;and 100% of what sets the piony - quite temporarily - above the monekys in the zoo is of anglo design and manufacture
1422693;1457201876;mircea_popescu;and DEFINITELY by long-dead folks.
1422694;1457201893;asciilifeform;piony?
1422695;1457201898;mircea_popescu;;;google pinoy
1422696;1457201899;gribble;Pinoy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinoy>; Urban Dictionary: pinoy: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pinoy>; Pinoy Tambayan | Watch Pinoy TV Shows Online: <http://www.pinoytvshows.org/>
1422697;1457201914;asciilifeform;ah
1422698;1457201926;asciilifeform;certainly true
1422699;1457201935;mircea_popescu;so then yes - ukraine, direct equiv ?
1422700;1457201942;asciilifeform;not in the sense BingoBoingo asked for
1422701;1457201962;asciilifeform;afaik the anglos did not so much as attempt to culturally 'uplift' the pinoy.
1422702;1457201978;mircea_popescu;depends on your definition thereof.
1422703;1457201992;mircea_popescu;introduced xtianity, for instance.
1422704;1457201996;mircea_popescu;also - clothing.
1422705;1457201997;asciilifeform;the ukrs pulled a successful 'fast one' by swallowing up several mil. native ru folk.
1422706;1457202000;asciilifeform;and enslaving.
1422707;1457202010;mircea_popescu;similarly there
1422708;1457202017;mircea_popescu;enslaving my butt.
1422709;1457202020;asciilifeform;what anglos toil in the philippines ?
1422710;1457202032;mircea_popescu;if only there were enslaving.
1422711;1457202048;asciilifeform;nobody asked donbas if it wants to mine coal to power imbecilic kiev.
1422712;1457202056;asciilifeform;to keep nuland's snatch warm
1422713;1457202065;asciilifeform;so - enslaved.
1422714;1457202071;mircea_popescu;eh, get out of here. the last enslaving went the other way, back in stalin's day.
1422715;1457202104;mircea_popescu;nobody asked ukrs if they wanted to fight "the facscist invader" etc.
1422716;1457202105;asciilifeform;stalin followed peter's 'colonization with the crown as sole european' model.
1422717;1457202155;mircea_popescu;kinda ironic how hitler never realised poland/ukraina/etc actually liked him a lot more than saxony.
1422718;1457202177;asciilifeform;at least until he went into tilt, it did.
1422719;1457202188;mircea_popescu;myeah
1422720;1457202190;asciilifeform;but certainly not where, e.g., dirlewanger, had been.
1422721;1457202201;mircea_popescu;that tilt is not even what anglo sources usually like to pretend.
1422722;1457202204;mircea_popescu;loved the jew burning.
1422723;1457202208;asciilifeform;quite!
1422724;1457202221;asciilifeform;to the point that they didn't leave so many for the germans to use
1422725;1457202231;asciilifeform;ditto baltics
1422726;1457202264;mircea_popescu;well for that matter - france.
1422727;1457202270;asciilifeform;there is an interesting (ru) account of a witness who saw the latvians, in anticipation of german arrival, have some fun at a yeshiva
1422728;1457202289;asciilifeform;they frogmarch the bearded folks to the local mechanic shop
1422729;1457202289;mircea_popescu;by and large, quite happy with hitler. at least he's not english. then degaulle came up with a piously fraudulent reinterpretation of the early 40s
1422730;1457202295;asciilifeform;and stuff the air hose down moth
1422731;1457202297;asciilifeform;*mouth
1422732;1457202304;asciilifeform;blowing out his guts through the arse.
1422733;1457202306;asciilifeform;then - next.
1422734;1457202317;asciilifeform;i have always wondered if this is a plausible tale, anatomically
1422735;1457202333;mircea_popescu;quite.
1422736;1457202347;mircea_popescu;air has to go somewhere.
1422737;1457202401;asciilifeform;yeah but is there enough pressure.
1422738;1457202418;asciilifeform;and wouldn't you expect peritoneal burst prior.
1422739;1457202419;mircea_popescu;quite. asshole not designed or intended to hold pressure in that way.
1422740;1457202431;mircea_popescu;how would you distinguish "peritoneal burst" from this ?
1422741;1457202445;asciilifeform;witness specifically said 'guts fell from arse'
1422742;1457202466;mircea_popescu;this is a trained surgeon that'd so distinguish ?
1422743;1457202475;asciilifeform;devil knows.
1422744;1457202477;mircea_popescu;"not THAt inch, THIs inch!"
1422745;1457202483;asciilifeform;i think about this story every time i turn on my compressor.
1422746;1457202529;mircea_popescu;you recall the story of that weioghlifter who butt-exploded shattering shit and blood all over ?
1422747;1457202541;asciilifeform;no?
1422748;1457202545;mircea_popescu;was a thing.
1422749;1457202546;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo?
1422750;1457202566;mircea_popescu;;;google "i remember pushing extra hard" weightlifter anal
1422751;1457202567;gribble;80 Badass Quotes About Training - Chris McCombs: <http://chrismccombs.net/80-quotes-about-training/>; Weightlifter - Rotten: <http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/>; Advanced Body Weight Workout - This Will Kick Your Ass | Nerd ...: <http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/17/advanced-body-weight-workout-warning-this-will-kick-your-ass/>
1422752;1457202584;mircea_popescu;hm. i recall the exact quote. derp was "and then i felt like i was pushing extra hard..."
1422753;1457202606;asciilifeform;l0l survived ?
1422754;1457202609;asciilifeform;surgeons made him a new arse ?
1422755;1457202675;danielpbarron;my wwwtron seems to have recovered on its own.. working for now if you want to try
1422756;1457202722;asciilifeform;seems to work.
1422757;1457202728;mircea_popescu;i see it.
1422758;1457203015;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, does anybody else find it curious that the linux kernel offers no way to remap keys ?
1422759;1457203051;asciilifeform;and FUCKING NO, the idiot xmodmap thing is pointedly not it (doesn't work in the console) and the keymap derpery is also not it (doesn't work in X) and neither works in, e.g., 'dosbox'.
1422760;1457203114;asciilifeform;on proper machine i do it in hardware.
1422761;1457203116;punkman;NSFL http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/
1422762;1457203117;assbot;Weightlifter ... ( http://bit.ly/21dKwVP )
1422763;1457203118;asciilifeform;on laptops, stuck with the idiocy
1422764;1457203215;asciilifeform;(i consider a machine where ctrl is NOT where capslock usually is, and capslock isn't GONE, -- UNUSABLE)
1422765;1457203300;asciilifeform;punkman: interesting.
1422766;1457203415;mircea_popescu;word, he found it.
1422767;1457203490;mircea_popescu;that's the one. penn state, looks like 20 eyars ago ?
1422768;1457203492;punkman;snopes says the text is dubious though http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/prolapse.asp
1422769;1457203493;assbot;Weight Lifter with Prolapsed Rectum : snopes.com ... ( http://bit.ly/21dKWvj )
1422770;1457203689;mircea_popescu;i myself am persuaded that's a very accurate model of how "force air in oral cavity" would work.
1422771;1457203695;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> BingoBoingo? << was a thing, don't recall exact link or quote
1422772;1457203713;mircea_popescu;there's also the case of the retarded romanian workers who stuck a compressed air outlet in the woman's vagina for lulz, ended up with a fatality.
1422773;1457203728;punkman;the split uniform looks suspicious, could also be some goatse dude instead of weightlifter
1422774;1457203729;BingoBoingo;<danielpbarron> my wwwtron seems to have recovered on its own.. working for now if you want to try << take this opportunity to flense. It's seriously 90%+ of making wordpress www worthy
1422775;1457203761;mircea_popescu;but iirc we did that in the logs.
1422776;1457203771;punkman;fuck wordpress, use one of those static site generators
1422777;1457203792;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: how distribute coins without mining?
1422778;1457203795;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422772 << iirc that was embolism tho
1422779;1457203795;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 18:48:33; mircea_popescu: there's also the case of the retarded romanian workers who stuck a compressed air outlet in the woman's vagina for lulz, ended up with a fatality.
1422780;1457203800;asciilifeform;not blood loss
1422781;1457203804;*;BingoBoingo did suggest werc + plugin universe, but I have yet to explore that much myself
1422782;1457203838;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: see last night's thread
1422783;1457203840;BingoBoingo;werc is cat-v/9base thing
1422784;1457203846;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: as quoted by danielpbarron
1422785;1457203887;punkman;nice, ETH = 0.02943110 BTC
1422786;1457203891;punkman;;;ticker --market all
1422787;1457203899;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 399.11, vol: 18536.01772323 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 402.598, vol: 10493.82931 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 398.6, vol: 51987.50437469 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 405.01, vol: 1.38919073 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 409.344, vol: 66669.56750000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 392.95, vol: 5581.80816405 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 390.511, vol: 218.100316 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1422788;1457203990;ben_vulpes;aha
1422789;1457204023;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: quite possibly cutting mining apart from transacting was a design error.
1422790;1457204034;asciilifeform;ditto address-generation from mining.
1422791;1457204142;asciilifeform;if you want to plow a field, what would you rather have? two strong oxen? or 4294967296 cockroaches.
1422792;1457204145;punkman;#altcoin-assets when
1422793;1457204154;ben_vulpes;#bitcoin-redesign
1422794;1457204155;asciilifeform;punkman: iirc we already had
1422795;1457204162;ben_vulpes;#bitcoin-design, rather
1422796;1457204221;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00055544 = 6.943 BTC [+] {2} 
1422797;1457204262;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the one thing i will say for certain is that the moving parts gotta be ~number-theoretical~ entities, rather than idiot protocol-promise goop
1422798;1457204293;asciilifeform;(with their magic bitfields, etc.)
1422799;1457204356;punkman;does monero solve the miner-can-block-my-tx with its ring signatures? (ping fluffypony)
1422800;1457204443;asciilifeform;punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-05-2014#685870
1422801;1457204443;assbot;Logged on 22-05-2014 17:00:58; asciilifeform: re: 'monero':  'Egalitarian proof of work' << do we need to read past this line ?
1422802;1457204479;asciilifeform;and megatonnes of other misc. retardation.
1422803;1457204684;punkman;I think wot+credit-lines solutions are interesting, sorta like the original ripple before the derps bought the name
1422804;1457204705;asciilifeform;punkman: interesting how ?
1422805;1457204722;asciilifeform;or rather, how is this not a throwback to manually-cranked hawala.
1422806;1457204728;asciilifeform;8th c. state-of-the-art.
1422807;1457204740;punkman;yep
1422808;1457204858;asciilifeform;if i want this, i can go to kandahar.
1422809;1457204873;asciilifeform;and fuck goats.
1422810;1457204882;asciilifeform;it is, imho, uninteresting.
1422811;1457204898;asciilifeform;or, rather, the folks to whom it is interesting, are already doing it.
1422812;1457205105;fluffypony;punkman: miners can block whatever they want
1422813;1457205116;fluffypony;but as to whether they can tell if a transaction is yours, yes, that's something we solve
1422814;1457205143;asciilifeform;fluffypony: solve how ?
1422815;1457205154;asciilifeform;and what are the boundary conditions ?
1422816;1457205459;fluffypony;asciilifeform: by removing the ability for miners to identify your transaction without, say, compromising your machine
1422817;1457205778;asciilifeform;this is the claim.
1422818;1457205781;asciilifeform;but where is the proof ?
1422819;1457205786;asciilifeform;gimme the theorem.
1422820;1457205835;asciilifeform;and even if it were so, it does not help bitbet, which ~already~ could 'prevent miners from blocking tx' IF it chose to keep them secret, but pointedly DOES NOT WANT
1422821;1457205904;asciilifeform;i know of at least 3 'dark coin' schemes, each of dubious cryptographic foundation, for 'nonpublic tx'
1422822;1457205967;asciilifeform;imho the notion is misguided. existing bitcoin can work this way if one wants it to. but, e.g., bitbet, DOES NOT
1422823;1457205970;asciilifeform;want to.
1422824;1457206000;fluffypony;asciilifeform: https://lab.getmonero.org
1422825;1457206001;assbot;Monero Research Lab - Protecting Your Privacy's Future ... ( http://bit.ly/1UIeHoj )
1422826;1457206012;fluffypony;and the original CryptoNote whitepaper: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf
1422827;1457206014;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UIeKQV )
1422828;1457206014;fluffypony;proofs are at the end
1422829;1457206039;fluffypony;the MRL1, MRL4, and MRL5 papers are most relevant to the more enhancements we've made or are making
1422830;1457206048;asciilifeform;ring signature just lets you 'one of keys k1,k2,...kn COULD HAVE signed this.'
1422831;1457206053;asciilifeform;there is nothing magic about it.
1422832;1457206058;fluffypony;nobody said there was
1422833;1457206062;fluffypony;but you asked for proofs
1422834;1457206064;asciilifeform;and does not protect against any serious actor.
1422835;1457206067;fluffypony;they're in the whitepaper
1422836;1457206101;fluffypony;stealth addresses provide unlinkability, ring signatures provide untraceability
1422837;1457206108;fluffypony;definitions of both of those terms are in the whitepaper
1422838;1457206119;fluffypony;RingCT obscures transaction amounts, that's in MRL5
1422839;1457206124;asciilifeform;and if you want to prove that a particular tx was yours ?
1422840;1457206141;asciilifeform;say, because you want to actually get the thing you were paying for ?
1422841;1457206162;fluffypony;you have multiple options, the easiest of which is reveal the private key for that transaction
1422842;1457206171;asciilifeform;ugh
1422843;1457206190;fluffypony;all it does is allow a recreation of the key images for that transaction in order to verify that you actually created it
1422844;1457206197;fluffypony;seriously, read the whitepaper
1422845;1457206207;fluffypony;there's actual maths in it
1422846;1457206209;asciilifeform;and what does this do to the anonymity of your other transactions ?
1422847;1457206246;fluffypony;unless you're in the habit of publicly revealing this information for all your transactions it does nothing
1422848;1457206259;fluffypony;(by nothing I mean its effects are cryptographically negligible)
1422849;1457206296;asciilifeform;if 'ring signature' means what shamir meant by it, than it is not 'negligible.'
1422850;1457206304;asciilifeform;srsly i am tired of the crypto abuse.
1422851;1457206304;fluffypony;dude
1422852;1457206309;fluffypony;READ THE WHITEPAPER
1422853;1457206312;asciilifeform;i did.
1422854;1457206318;fluffypony;really, in 30 seconds?
1422855;1457206321;asciilifeform;the last time we had this thread !
1422856;1457206324;asciilifeform;or what, this is a new one ?
1422857;1457206331;asciilifeform;with different mechanism ?
1422858;1457206343;fluffypony;so then you understand that the ring signatures are only on inputs
1422859;1457206348;asciilifeform;aha
1422860;1457206376;asciilifeform;so if you reveal your connection with whatever inputs, you have given non-negligible info to the enemy.
1422861;1457206384;fluffypony;so if an input appears to come from 20 outputs on the blockchain there is an equiprobable chance that each of those 20 outputs is the real one
1422862;1457206395;fluffypony;if you reveal it then you reveal which of the outputs was really yours
1422863;1457206412;asciilifeform;and when those outputs in turn become inputs ?
1422864;1457206416;asciilifeform;for another tx
1422865;1457206436;fluffypony;yes - so in any future transaction if you happen to use the same output in a ring then one of those is out
1422866;1457206448;asciilifeform;and here we get to the boojum.
1422867;1457206451;fluffypony;but you can blacklist those outputs in your personal capacity
1422868;1457206474;asciilifeform;and so now i'm stuck having to juggle pots of own coin to maintain this so-called auto anonymity ?
1422869;1457206478;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00055365 = 12.9554 BTC [-] {2} 
1422870;1457206502;fluffypony;consider what the chance is of you mixing with an output you've already revealed to an attacker
1422871;1457206509;asciilifeform;this is the thing about fancy schemes, apparently i'm an evil terrorist for thinking 17 steps ahead instead of the apparently assumed 1 or 2.
1422872;1457206535;asciilifeform;fluffypony: if i'm, e.g., bitbet, and ROUTINELY reveal outputs, the chance is 100%.
1422873;1457206536;fluffypony;there's absolutely nothing fancy about this
1422874;1457206557;*;fluffypony lols
1422875;1457206580;fluffypony;so there's a bucket of tens of thousands of outputs, and you routinely reveal outputs, so there's a 100% chance you're going to mix with a previously revealed output?
1422876;1457206598;asciilifeform;as t-->+inf - YES.
1422877;1457206635;fluffypony;sure
1422878;1457206638;asciilifeform;ring signature adds an astonishing amount of complexity, for dubious gain.
1422879;1457206641;asciilifeform;this is my verdict.
1422880;1457206643;asciilifeform;fwiw.
1422881;1457206649;fluffypony;so in this one special case you have to maybe blacklist outputs and not mix with them
1422882;1457206658;fluffypony;for everyone else your special case doesn't apply
1422883;1457206661;asciilifeform;spoonful of shit in barrel of wine.
1422884;1457206683;fluffypony;so your argument adds an astonishingly nonsensical case that presents dubious privacy risks
1422885;1457206685;fluffypony;fin.
1422886;1457206692;asciilifeform;now there is ~at least one~ special case to think about, whereas before there were none.
1422887;1457206712;asciilifeform;whole thing is quite reminiscent of tor.
1422888;1457206726;asciilifeform;where 'no one could possibly break' unless 'special case', which, guess what, reliably happened.
1422889;1457206730;asciilifeform;because it could.
1422890;1457206735;fluffypony;ah yes, the asciilifeform "everything is bad except this hardware thing I've been working on for 4 years and still can't finish" argument
1422891;1457206743;asciilifeform;not even related ?
1422892;1457206774;asciilifeform;except perhaps in the 'you kicked my puppy so i'll kick yours' sense ?
1422893;1457206779;asciilifeform;guess what, i have no puppy.
1422894;1457206791;*;fluffypony chuckles 
1422895;1457206827;asciilifeform;kick to your heart's content.
1422896;1457206874;fluffypony;I'm not kicking anything, I just find it amusing
1422897;1457206934;danielpbarron;how was the roundtable, fluffypony ?
1422898;1457206948;fluffypony;equal parts interesting and frustrating
1422899;1457206966;fluffypony;mircea_popescu came up a couple of times
1422900;1457206986;fluffypony;mostly in the context of "we should have invited him to add a voice to this, but I doubt he'd come to the USA"
1422901;1457207066;danielpbarron;oh it was in the US? where? I thought it was on some island somewhere
1422902;1457207081;fluffypony;first one was on an island
1422903;1457207087;fluffypony;this one was in Sandpiper Bay in Florida
1422904;1457207123;asciilifeform;does fluffypony also go to winemaking conferences in riyadh ?
1422905;1457207143;asciilifeform;porn-making conf in teheran ?
1422906;1457207189;asciilifeform;do they also wonder why mircea_popescu won't come.
1422907;1457207206;fluffypony;I don't think there was a question of whether or not he would come
1422908;1457207211;fluffypony;but a question of whether or not he was invited
1422909;1457207220;danielpbarron;they'd have to make room for his harem
1422910;1457207234;*;asciilifeform bbl, heard that the ants in the kitchen are having a conference, and wouldn't mind if he attended to 'add his voice'
1422911;1457207384;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422780 "catastrophically exploded internal organs".
1422912;1457207384;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 18:50:00; asciilifeform: not blood loss
1422913;1457207429;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422789 << if this is true, it really takes bitcoin outside of this whole "be your own bank" mental space
1422914;1457207429;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 18:53:43; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite possibly cutting mining apart from transacting was a design error.
1422915;1457207446;mircea_popescu;large part of the promise and value of bitcoin is exactly this chickenizing of banking.
1422916;1457207449;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Ethereum to top $1 billion market cap before 2017 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/#b20
1422917;1457207512;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422803 << yeah, but think abotu the reason the name was sold in the first place.
1422918;1457207512;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:04:44; punkman: I think wot+credit-lines solutions are interesting, sorta like the original ripple before the derps bought the name
1422919;1457207561;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422820 << well... ideally does not want.
1422920;1457207561;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:23:55; asciilifeform: and even if it were so, it does not help bitbet, which ~already~ could 'prevent miners from blocking tx' IF it chose to keep them secret, but pointedly DOES NOT WANT
1422921;1457207701;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422868 << you realise that provability and anonimity are in this exact sense contrary desires, you will necessarily be stuck with something like this if you want to at the same time both.
1422922;1457207701;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:34:34; asciilifeform: and so now i'm stuck having to juggle pots of own coin to maintain this so-called auto anonymity ?
1422923;1457207712;mircea_popescu;this has nothing to do with math, even. it's a given.
1422924;1457207820;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00055336 = 27.17 BTC [-] {6} 
1422925;1457207942;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14556 @ 0.00055323 = 8.0528 BTC [-]
1422926;1457208028;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422881 << so what becomes of the outputs then. blacklisted 4evar ?
1422927;1457208028;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:37:29; fluffypony: so in this one special case you have to maybe blacklist outputs and not mix with them
1422928;1457208148;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422884 << well, the privacy risks aren't exactly dubious in that i don't atm see how ring signatures would prevent miner cartel from attacking bitbet. except, of course, if predicated on "miners are lazy and dumb". which is true - until they aren't. much like ants are lazy and dumb, until they get into the fridge, at which point they'll dumbly&lazily never want to leave.
1422929;1457208148;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:38:03; fluffypony: so your argument adds an astonishingly nonsensical case that presents dubious privacy risks
1422930;1457208237;ben_vulpes;did i miss a fork proposal for july that would nuke miner cartelization, or perhaps even pooled mining?
1422931;1457208239;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422900 << let's not flatter ourselves. the odds of mp showing up to "add a voice" to $randomitem are ~nil.
1422932;1457208239;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:43:06; fluffypony: mostly in the context of "we should have invited him to add a voice to this, but I doubt he'd come to the USA"
1422933;1457208250;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes if you did so did i.
1422934;1457208280;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422905 << actually i'd go to that one.
1422935;1457208280;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 19:45:43; asciilifeform: porn-making conf in teheran ?
1422936;1457208294;mircea_popescu;but mostly to add some nudity.
1422937;1457208296;ben_vulpes;i found an antipooling design 'idea' on hackingdistributed
1422938;1457208309;ben_vulpes;but that's all i've found so far.
1422939;1457208356;mircea_popescu;huh ?
1422940;1457208374;mircea_popescu;you mean http://trilema.com/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol ?
1422941;1457208376;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SqDUTU )
1422942;1457208391;ben_vulpes;nono
1422943;1457208394;ben_vulpes;http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/
1422944;1457208395;assbot;How to Disincentivize Large Bitcoin Mining Pools ... ( http://bit.ly/1SqDWuQ )
1422945;1457208404;ben_vulpes;but yes that too
1422946;1457208423;mircea_popescu;i'll click later
1422947;1457208505;mircea_popescu;anwyay, yes, bitcoin is traversing perhaps the first true crisis since its founding, between now and the halving.
1422948;1457208510;mircea_popescu;a sort of puberty i guess.
1422949;1457208538;mircea_popescu;ironically, it had absolutely nothing to do with all the derps, in the end.
1422950;1457208603;mircea_popescu;not with the wanna-be ceos and assorted "captains of industry" ; not with the wanna-be coders and assorted "power rangers" ; not with the wanna-be journos and assorted redditards ; not with the wanna-be sikrit agents and assorted nsa tools.
1422951;1457208614;mircea_popescu;so many wasted lives, huh.
1422952;1457208647;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i stopped reading at 'Any good solution in this space must also preserve the large investments many miners have made and are planning to make in their equipment.' and the swimming pool photo (??!)
1422953;1457208669;ben_vulpes;it aint' great, asciilifeform
1422954;1457208692;asciilifeform;i want my 10 seconds back.
1422955;1457208710;ben_vulpes;complain to fluffypony he took what, 3 minutes?
1422956;1457208754;asciilifeform;~30 to date.
1422957;1457208771;asciilifeform;(counting only mine)
1422958;1457208796;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00055697 = 9.0508 BTC [+] {4} 
1422959;1457208961;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422950 << so am i thick, or what did nsa even want if not for mircea_popescu to go long on fiat?
1422960;1457208961;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 20:10:03; mircea_popescu: not with the wanna-be ceos and assorted "captains of industry" ; not with the wanna-be coders and assorted "power rangers" ; not with the wanna-be journos and assorted redditards ; not with the wanna-be sikrit agents and assorted nsa tools.
1422961;1457209033;asciilifeform;the enemies of sound money are uncorking champagne today.
1422962;1457209143;asciilifeform;the escape hatch from toiletpaper weimarworld closes.
1422963;1457209153;asciilifeform;which is all they want.
1422964;1457209485;mircea_popescu;yea well.
1422965;1457209517;mircea_popescu;you hafta understand mp was rich and powerful long before bitcoin.
1422966;1457209533;asciilifeform;afaik everyone knew this?
1422967;1457209553;mircea_popescu;so it's not that simple.
1422968;1457209598;mircea_popescu;but yes, the enemies of sound money are certainly served by bitcoin miner cartelization. doh.
1422969;1457209603;mircea_popescu;ipso definitio unsound money.
1422970;1457209620;asciilifeform;mp calls artillery strike on own position. takes cover in bunker. the rest of tmsr - in ???.
1422971;1457209648;mircea_popescu;again with the effects talk. looky : what'd you have me do, not say anything ?
1422972;1457209697;asciilifeform;hey if i knew how to fly a dirigible, i'd be flyin.
1422973;1457209708;mircea_popescu;all through the past 7 years the whole spiel was "[these known vulnerabilities] but the miners would never dare do that because of market reaction". what exactly did you imagine that reaction is built out of ? reddit derping ?
1422974;1457209725;mircea_popescu;the market reaction is built out of divestment.
1422975;1457209741;asciilifeform;and anyway i predicted in '13 when first showed up here.
1422976;1457209752;asciilifeform;so i can l0llate.
1422977;1457209761;mircea_popescu;and yeah, sure, perhaps the market's not rational enough, and yeah, sure, maybe fed prints more to buy bitcoin. whatevs.
1422978;1457209812;mircea_popescu;stop worring about what things mean and what may come and so forth, focus on doing the right thing at each juncture i say.
1422979;1457209844;mircea_popescu;as long as "i did nothing wrong" at each successive point, you'll be a happy dead man.
1422980;1457209869;asciilifeform;this is given to no one.
1422981;1457209879;mircea_popescu;what ?
1422982;1457209900;asciilifeform;'know i did nothng wrong'
1422983;1457209910;mircea_popescu;why not ?
1422984;1457209950;asciilifeform;which is why every old officer wakes up screamng now and then, and recalculates, again and again
1422985;1457209967;mircea_popescu;this trivially reduces to "usable computer can not be built". which is it.
1422986;1457209986;asciilifeform;has not been built.
1422987;1457210185;mircea_popescu; anyway, ftr, re ben_vulpes link (not that i've read it or intend to read random derpage from nobodies on topics) - years ago protecting miner investment made sense as a topic.
1422988;1457210256;asciilifeform;aha. when the bees stop making honey, they are no longer valuable livestock, but just annoying vermin.
1422989;1457210262;mircea_popescu;somethinglikethat.
1422990;1457210266;asciilifeform;and so - ddt.
1422991;1457210332;BingoBoingo;!up JuliaTourianski_
1422992;1457210343;asciilifeform;the problem is that bees also pollinate.
1422993;1457210348;JuliaTourianski_;;;bcauth JuliaTourianski_
1422994;1457210348;gribble;Request successful for user JuliaTourianski_, hostmask JuliaTourianski_!68c89707@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.200.151.7. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:0ae7ad23affed4fee02c6fe2d6a4b48efb8dbeb2660539f943f9ae9c
1422995;1457210383;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30150 @ 0.00055323 = 16.6799 BTC [-] {2} 
1422996;1457210391;BingoBoingo;!t m s.qntr
1422997;1457210391;assbot;[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D:  /  /  ( shares,  BTC), 30D: 0.00023293 / 0.00039746 / 0.00049913 (203014 shares, 80.69 BTC)
1422998;1457210397;BingoBoingo;!t m s.bbet
1422999;1457210397;assbot;[MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D:  /  /  ( shares,  BTC), 30D: 0.000105 / 0.000105 / 0.000105 (500 shares, 0.05 BTC)
1423000;1457210404;BingoBoingo;!t m s.mpoe
1423001;1457210404;assbot;[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00055323 / 0.00055571 / 0.00055936 (845759 shares, 470.00 BTC), 7D: 0.00055323 / 0.00057967 / 0.00059897 (15875140 shares, 9,202.36 BTC), 30D: 0.00054156 / 0.00056753 / 0.00059897 (87631792 shares, 49,734.17 BTC)
1423002;1457210412;BingoBoingo;!t m s.nsa
1423003;1457210412;assbot;[MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D:  /  /  ( shares,  BTC), 30D: 0.000085 / 0.00008503 / 0.000086 (3000 shares, 0.26 BTC)
1423004;1457210434;BingoBoingo;!t m s.mg
1423005;1457210434;assbot;[MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D:  /  /  ( shares,  BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.00010096 / 0.000105 (7000 shares, 0.71 BTC)
1423006;1457210440;BingoBoingo;!t m x.eur
1423007;1457210441;assbot;[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00254491 / 0.00254562 / 0.00254685 (342 shares, 0.87 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259691 / 0.00262744 (1539 shares, 4.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00273559 / 0.00332476 (9614 shares, 26.30 BTC)
1423008;1457210480;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: yer a bit early for the gotterdammerung. give it time.
1423009;1457210546;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'm just trying to figure out how to cover this actual crisis now that Bitcoin has one.
1423010;1457210571;asciilifeform;this is like asking how to cover meteor.
1423011;1457210605;asciilifeform;everyone can just look out the window and see the black sky.
1423012;1457210612;asciilifeform;no need to read.
1423013;1457210639;ben_vulpes;seveneves!
1423014;1457210662;BingoBoingo;What? No one literate enough to make code has started prototyping necessary brick chicom hardware fork?
1423015;1457210666;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: oh how i hated that thing
1423016;1457210671;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: quite mizerable.
1423017;1457210699;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: didja miss all the schelling point threads?
1423018;1457210735;BingoBoingo;I'm trying to digest how this all relates if the biggest schelling point of Cliter reign follows halving.
1423019;1457210756;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i read whole thing, and cannot even begin to count the necessary barf buckets.
1423020;1457210793;ben_vulpes;so cartelization, preservation of extant btc distribution not even desireable. sounds like a new genesis, altcoin, if the prototype is even preserveable?
1423021;1457210802;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: we had a rusty old boat. it was pathetic and barely floated, but it was a boat.
1423022;1457210815;asciilifeform;now mircea_popescu opened scuttling valve.
1423023;1457210826;asciilifeform;which was his privilege.
1423024;1457210865;BingoBoingo;So, how do we make a better boat on the open sea?
1423025;1457210871;asciilifeform;nfi.
1423026;1457210884;asciilifeform;or rather i have quite fi
1423027;1457210893;asciilifeform;but no resource.
1423028;1457210899;BingoBoingo;A boat which, in scuttling value we can float new boat in?
1423029;1457210904;asciilifeform;which is ~same as nfi.
1423030;1457210921;asciilifeform;no such thing.
1423031;1457210976;BingoBoingo;Spz adacoin, could not old boat be scuttled into supporting that or?
1423032;1457210990;ben_vulpes;no time
1423033;1457210991;asciilifeform;how?
1423034;1457211012;BingoBoingo;Like the hardfork dilemma.
1423035;1457211054;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu doesn't support things, period. and imho this is reasonable.
1423036;1457211123;BingoBoingo;So, are we reverting back to seeing how many benjies we can shove into the bank of arse?
1423037;1457211139;asciilifeform;so unless BingoBoingo writes adacoin, there is no adacoin.
1423038;1457211149;asciilifeform;get crackin'.
1423039;1457211185;BingoBoingo;hmmm....
1423040;1457211197;*;BingoBoingo going to clear some brush and think about life.
1423041;1457211772;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1423034 << that only worked because, in phorkwar, one could sell phork-btc and buy btc, forming an arse-mouth loop.
1423042;1457211772;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 20:50:12; BingoBoingo: Like the hardfork dilemma.
1423043;1457211794;asciilifeform;and any btc holder could play.
1423044;1457211823;asciilifeform;this does not work for alts.
1423045;1457211871;asciilifeform;(because there is no satisfactory way of bootstrapping any alt.)
1423046;1457211934;asciilifeform;nor anything to prevent an alt from being bulldozed by ft meade, or beijing, or whoever else can print money and bake silicon.
1423047;1457212029;asciilifeform;and, as usual, i have a pill against these boojums, but it is very bitter and i promise that no one will want it.
1423048;1457212125;asciilifeform;(tldr: hawala over gossipd. an end to the 'anyone is a bank' dream.)
1423049;1457212179;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> (because there is no satisfactory way of bootstrapping any alt.) << in principle a ~WELL DESIGNED~ alt with a ~WELL CHOSEN~ pow would work quite well.
1423050;1457212198;asciilifeform;against the printing press ?
1423051;1457212202;mircea_popescu;benefits from all the marketing bitcoin did for it, without having to pay (in the shape of entrenched idiots of all stripes)
1423052;1457212223;mircea_popescu;however, if it is going to be an altcoin, as in, no continuity, then it doesn't matter so much if tomorrow or yest or whenever.
1423053;1457212238;asciilifeform;printing press throws infinite silicon at it.
1423054;1457212257;mircea_popescu;printing press does no such thing. never did.
1423055;1457212269;mircea_popescu;if whatever you're doing is threatened by a government, you're either very stupid or very lazy.
1423056;1457212290;BingoBoingo;So, how do we well design an alt.
1423057;1457212294;asciilifeform;and btc cartel is what?
1423058;1457212356;mircea_popescu;and sure, you can blame the miners. the problem is - the design sort-of forced this endgame upon them.  i doubt most of the chinese even understand ~what went wrong~, in the very faint general, letalone in this specific ~what we did wrong~. by the chinese bible they were being very reasonable and i just don't understand how the world works. ach ach my dear fellow mp.
1423059;1457212377;mircea_popescu;after the unintentional hardfork over the imbecillic high-s thing, this was perhaps inevitable. what are they do to ?
1423060;1457212383;asciilifeform;now this is true.
1423061;1457212405;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform btc cartel is a bunch of dudes with some technical ability and no clue generally.
1423062;1457212439;asciilifeform;the interesting moment will be whe usg hyenas feast on the corpses,
1423063;1457212447;asciilifeform;of them.
1423064;1457212458;mircea_popescu;you and your twin anal and usg preoccupations.
1423065;1457212462;mircea_popescu;have you noticed this ?
1423066;1457212489;asciilifeform;i'm a prisoner.
1423067;1457212495;asciilifeform;whaddayawant.
1423068;1457212511;asciilifeform;zek.
1423069;1457212525;mircea_popescu;hopefully some hicks from missouri capture you and i can hear all about the ozarks supremacy for a while.
1423070;1457212546;BingoBoingo;!b 4
1423071;1457212546;assbot;Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/10ZSWDG.txt )
1423072;1457212639;asciilifeform;same thing.
1423073;1457212664;JuliaTourianski_;the Chinese miners want and like single leadership because chinese.
1423074;1457212696;JuliaTourianski_;they will never go against perceived consensus
1423075;1457212725;mircea_popescu;pity they already did.
1423076;1457212758;JuliaTourianski_;they went against core?
1423077;1457212769;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://megalyrics.ru/lyric/vladimir-vysotskii/zk-vasiliev-i-zk-pietrov.htm << oblig re zeks.
1423078;1457212770;assbot;500 Internal Server Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1TWQ8ET )
1423079;1457212788;mircea_popescu;JuliaTourianski_ no, they went against the consensus. what's core ?
1423080;1457212789;BingoBoingo;JuliaTourianski_: They went against the don't be shitheads when 51+%
1423081;1457212827;BingoBoingo;Further ~80-90 percent of hash all got together and MET!?
1423082;1457212878;JuliaTourianski_;oh thats another thing altogether
1423083;1457212888;BingoBoingo;But the same problem
1423084;1457212891;JuliaTourianski_;i was thinking blocksize
1423085;1457212901;mircea_popescu;stop focusing on teh irrelevant.
1423086;1457212927;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo imagine someone somewhere thinking this is a good idea.
1423087;1457212939;mircea_popescu;now imagine what other incredibly dumb shit they imagine is a good idea for crying out loud.
1423088;1457213036;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: This is why /me leans towards well designed altcoin as solution. Something capable being ada-ified, but perhaps implementable in rougher form.
1423089;1457213047;BingoBoingo;Becaus ewe can't have a republic without money
1423090;1457213066;BingoBoingo;At least not without aloha snackbar
1423091;1457213075;mircea_popescu;"well designed" does not happeb by fiat.
1423092;1457213090;JuliaTourianski_;the thing alt coiners don't get is...if btc "fails" alt coins lose all cred. wont get any traction EVEN if perfect
1423093;1457213109;BingoBoingo;JuliaTourianski_: BTC just failed, now what?
1423094;1457213117;BingoBoingo;And there's no well designed alts
1423095;1457213122;JuliaTourianski_;back to gold
1423096;1457213132;JuliaTourianski_;and ur dark place
1423097;1457213138;mircea_popescu;JuliaTourianski_ nobody wants "the cred" of imbecile redditars & all.
1423098;1457213149;mircea_popescu;i'd honestly much prefer the situation where "evangelism" never happened.
1423099;1457213153;BingoBoingo;And now TSA plucks arsecoin out or arsecoin wallet with flashlight
1423100;1457213175;asciilifeform;if you're talking about gold and you aren't wearing a crown and leading an army -- delusional.
1423101;1457213183;mircea_popescu;in fact, the lot of them getting burned off is at least as valuable as bricking the idiot chinese miner rigs.
1423102;1457213184;JuliaTourianski_;reddit is a pool of people who should never breed
1423103;1457213225;JuliaTourianski_;well guys
1423104;1457213247;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: famine doesn't affect rats and mice. quite the opposite.
1423105;1457213248;JuliaTourianski_;jackson palmer said usd will outlive btc so lets all fold our cards.
1423106;1457213254;mod6;if this is all correct, then i agree with alf.  there is no reason to continue work on trb - we should suspend, indefinately, all efforts therein.  At least until somehow we have a re-write that resolves these issues.
1423107;1457213267;shinohai;T_T
1423108;1457213324;mircea_popescu;mod6 your call to make, together with ben_vulpes i guess - the point remains, if no trb offering in july, no trb offering in july.
1423109;1457213332;BingoBoingo;mod6: Well, work on a trb with a new genesis block could be an interesting skeleton for altcoin. It opens the door to flensing far deeper.
1423110;1457213360;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: not really.
1423111;1457213375;mod6;Why is july a thing?  This doesn't make sense.  If prb wants to fork a centralized mining protocol, that doesn't make it any less dead.
1423112;1457213381;asciilifeform;try to undestand the difference between bug and misdesign.
1423113;1457213423;mircea_popescu;mod6 because more or less then, it'll be a case of "well... what does everyone use ?"
1423114;1457213443;mod6;well, everyone who doens't matter.
1423115;1457213455;mod6;and that's not good enough.
1423116;1457213462;asciilifeform;and i admit that i wonder about mpex.
1423117;1457213475;mod6;so if derps wanna use centralized mining shitware, they can continue.  but i wont, and you wont.
1423118;1457213488;mircea_popescu;something like that.
1423119;1457213509;asciilifeform;what does mircea_popescu say to the shareholders? 'enjoy the ride dowd to the ground from 20,000 metres' ?
1423120;1457213522;asciilifeform;*down
1423121;1457213536;mircea_popescu;why do you suppose anything has to be said in particular ? i dun follow.
1423122;1457213540;shinohai;without trb, Bitcoin is basically useless. To me anyway.
1423123;1457213549;asciilifeform;^
1423124;1457213553;*;BingoBoingo will nevar be able to get an address in another currency as beautiful as 1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4 again
1423125;1457213553;mircea_popescu;if gates switches to euros, what would he say to microshit shareholders ?
1423126;1457213570;asciilifeform;not analogous.
1423127;1457213576;mircea_popescu;be specific.
1423128;1457213604;asciilifeform;euros are same as usd.
1423129;1457213613;mircea_popescu;to you.
1423130;1457213629;mircea_popescu;to random microshit investor, bitcoin is the same as flooz.
1423131;1457213645;*;BingoBoingo thinks MPEx can have important role as market between BlightCoin and Coin during the transition.
1423132;1457213649;asciilifeform;well yes.
1423133;1457213688;asciilifeform;and to a bitcoin user, currencies that have to mive physically, or hawalate, are all stone knives.
1423134;1457213694;asciilifeform;*move
1423135;1457213715;asciilifeform;and prop up the state.
1423136;1457213732;mircea_popescu;well yeah.
1423137;1457213841;asciilifeform;but to say that mircea_popescu's retreat is of no interest to mpex users, beggars the imagination and melts my brain.
1423138;1457213855;asciilifeform;but who am i to say.
1423139;1457213863;mircea_popescu;if it's of interest or not it is their call to make neh ?
1423140;1457213872;asciilifeform;the spartans can speak for themselves
1423141;1457213878;asciilifeform;with their swords.
1423142;1457213888;asciilifeform;aha.
1423143;1457213933;mircea_popescu;anyway, i suppose it's absolutely obvious and entirely uncontroversial that a bitcoin with cartel-mining is entirely uninteresting to everyone.
1423144;1457213955;mircea_popescu;not that the philipinos won't be coming out of the underbrush to push the unexpected "just as good" verbiage, or w/e.
1423145;1457213983;asciilifeform;the cartel was not reliably in control.
1423146;1457213996;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1423147;1457213997;asciilifeform;there was, e.g., no usg whitelist.
1423148;1457214013;asciilifeform;the way there is with visa.
1423149;1457214020;mircea_popescu;dude wouldja stop with the usg shoehorning ?
1423150;1457214025;mircea_popescu;the united states of america DO NOT MATTER.
1423151;1457214037;mircea_popescu;nobody cares. really. honestly.
1423152;1457214047;mircea_popescu;they have no power, no influence, no impact and no credibility.
1423153;1457214066;asciilifeform;it is simply the current britain. forget the particular.
1423154;1457214073;mircea_popescu;it ended, long ago, various 2nd hand leaders a la putin now and again go to kick the once-great, currently ridiculous loser.
1423155;1457214085;asciilifeform;all fiat is one.
1423156;1457214096;mircea_popescu;wouldja stop being confusing.
1423157;1457214166;asciilifeform;lizards print, while others work. that is what fiat is. in roman debased silver, or today.
1423158;1457214182;mircea_popescu;nobody in the us has done a spot of work in about fifty years.
1423159;1457214228;asciilifeform;why work when you can print, aha.
1423160;1457214256;mircea_popescu;anyway. in my personal scoreboard, this is chalked down as one of those grand disasters of stupidity. exactly in line with an older article of yours,
1423161;1457214281;mircea_popescu;"these idiots were given an opportunity, and they figured running the rigs as efficiently as possible is everything that may ever matter."
1423162;1457214292;mircea_popescu;no nefariousness need be involved for people to fuck up grandiosely.
1423163;1457214301;asciilifeform;and when the time comes and beijing prints, while swedish coolies toil, beijing will be indistinguishable from today's washington.
1423164;1457214365;Reydev;hey guys is the current discussion still related to the bitbet payout thing discussed some days ago?
1423165;1457214387;asciilifeform;Reydev: it is.
1423166;1457214391;Reydev;ok
1423167;1457214712;mod6;mircea_popescu: so if your pre-req for change to btc protocol was adopted, and ASICs were rendered useless, how does one begin to attack the problem of mining pools?
1423168;1457214746;mircea_popescu;ah, that post was made in a happier time, a more innocent time.
1423169;1457214749;asciilifeform;!s non-outsourceable
1423170;1457214749;assbot;11 results for 'non-outsourceable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=non-outsourceable
1423171;1457214777;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-08-2015#1251979
1423172;1457214777;assbot;Logged on 25-08-2015 18:53:47; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: workfunctions, there was once some theoretical work concerning 'non-outsourceable puzzles', i.e. mathematical magic preventing the formation of pools by allowing any pool participant to silently and untraceably claim the entire block reward. but i cannot recall if this went anywhere other than academiwankery.
1423173;1457214796;mircea_popescu;but anyway - there's a substantial difference between the degree of brokedness bitcoin experienced between 2010 and about 2013ish, where imbecile independent miners nevertheless gave their vote blank to "pool" operators (mcuh like idiot shareholders let the various brokers to vote for them)
1423174;1457214812;asciilifeform;mod6: but remember, this is only a pill against demoooocracy
1423175;1457214825;asciilifeform;i.e. many small derps pooling
1423176;1457214834;mircea_popescu;and the degree of brokedness bitcoin experiences now, post-cartelization (an event which we'd more or less date as occuring either in degrees or at some point between the high-s fork and march trhe 3rd)
1423177;1457214845;asciilifeform;it does nothing against large monolithic derps.
1423178;1457214847;mircea_popescu;wherein ACTUALY MINERS are centralized, pools are irrelevant.
1423179;1457214891;mircea_popescu;so : by breaking the capital investment of the current idiots that had the unmitigated audacity to meet and the breathtaking stupidity to not only admit it, but bring it like some sort of value in public, like the mongoloid children proud of his fingerpainting works in his own shit
1423180;1457214924;mircea_popescu;we at the very least achieve a very useful head of a mongoloid on a stick for the education of future retarded children of (principally) asian mothers,
1423181;1457214934;mircea_popescu;and hopefully the next crop will have more sense.
1423182;1457214957;asciilifeform;this ever worked?
1423183;1457214986;mircea_popescu;for varying definitions of working.
1423184;1457215000;asciilifeform;in jp there are 1500+ yr old 'tsunami stones'.
1423185;1457215017;asciilifeform;'do not build after this line.'
1423186;1457215032;asciilifeform;and... guess what.
1423187;1457215033;mod6;is there anything in anyones opinion that the foundation could do with trb to move past this problem?
1423188;1457215046;mircea_popescu;this is deeply unclear as of yet.
1423189;1457215070;mircea_popescu;in general "what to do" has been a foremost topic in everyone's head for days now, i would imagine.
1423190;1457215097;mod6;fair enough.
1423191;1457215110;asciilifeform;seems like mircea_popescu already decided ?
1423192;1457215117;mircea_popescu;what ?
1423193;1457215124;asciilifeform;whattodo.
1423194;1457215132;mircea_popescu;i have ?
1423195;1457215137;asciilifeform;sell btc, buy icecream.
1423196;1457215161;mircea_popescu;well not all of it.
1423197;1457215161;JuliaTourianski_;buy dash coin lol
1423198;1457215174;asciilifeform;am i mistaken?
1423199;1457215196;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform dawg, portofolios get adjusted all the time in response to market conditions, whadda ya want.
1423200;1457215247;JuliaTourianski_;we want ur unshakable faith
1423201;1457215275;asciilifeform;again spurious analogy. or is mircea_popescu about to explain how tmsr still has a philosophical foundation without sound money.
1423202;1457215310;mircea_popescu;sound money can at best be a practical foundation.
1423203;1457215319;mircea_popescu;best i can see both these items sit on the same philosophical foundation.
1423204;1457215330;mircea_popescu;which, inasmuch as it's philosophical, doesn't really get touched by phenomena.
1423205;1457215416;asciilifeform;geographically dispersed honest commerce stands on bitcoin, just as dispersed wot stands on publickey crypto.
1423206;1457215429;asciilifeform;without these things, free world is a dream.
1423207;1457215463;mircea_popescu;you know - i did geographically dispersed honest commerce long before bitcoin.
1423208;1457215484;mircea_popescu;without these things ~free world accessible to arbitrary $fortune~ is a dream.
1423209;1457215487;mircea_popescu;but otherwise...
1423210;1457215500;asciilifeform;and yes, bitcoin is not a boat, but a plank from broken boat.
1423211;1457215573;mircea_popescu;why the fuck did you imagine the various items and pillars to build a coherent world-envelloping system come to me so easily ? i'm not coming up with fucking wot-economy and pgp-corporations and all this de novo, i'm just applying to pre-existing items!
1423212;1457215591;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a world where a lizard can print is by no reasonable description 'free'.
1423213;1457215612;asciilifeform;but fundamentally soviet.
1423214;1457215743;mircea_popescu;soviet world had it's own free subset ; much like the 1984 world has its free subset. the people running the black market that orwell does not even wish to consider.
1423215;1457215751;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00055323 = 1.6597 BTC [-]
1423216;1457215783;asciilifeform;go buy a working cramershoup on this blackmarket?
1423217;1457215800;asciilifeform;or a usable computer.
1423218;1457215804;mircea_popescu;i'm more interested in slavegirls and icecream, but sure.
1423219;1457215815;mircea_popescu;note that my interest in computers is, these days, ~strictly predicated on trb.
1423220;1457215840;asciilifeform;there had to be some reason why mircea_popescu even bothered with bitcoin
1423221;1457215848;mircea_popescu;this particular system, for instance, i've been running for a while now on a half dozen long etc hosts, i don't even notice.
1423222;1457215857;asciilifeform;given that he already had lifetime icecream
1423223;1457215868;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it made sense. but note that it was principally the irc chan that sold me.
1423224;1457215920;asciilifeform;it seems to me that mircea_popescu does not live by icecream and cunt alone ?
1423225;1457215928;mircea_popescu;perhaps not spurious to link here http://trilema.com/2013/noob-mp-or-how-it-all-began/
1423226;1457215929;assbot;Noob MP, or how it all began on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ygk7qH )
1423227;1457215934;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117400 @ 0.00055266 = 64.8823 BTC [-] {10} 
1423228;1457215977;*;asciilifeform recalls reading this
1423229;1457216107;*;BingoBoingo notices alf's grieving process skips to simultaneous depression and acceptance
1423230;1457216117;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6201 @ 0.0005522 = 3.4242 BTC [-]
1423231;1457216130;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i have ~0 btc.
1423232;1457216143;mircea_popescu;rounded to the nearest million ?
1423233;1457216156;asciilifeform;l0l
1423234;1457216173;mircea_popescu;(i'm not porposing you have a lot - merely poking fun at the rounding process you prolly use regardless)
1423235;1457216224;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Anyways you've got warrants in a substantial portion of S.NSA which are convertible to BTC or its successor on MPEx
1423236;1457216245;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: will soon be worth fiddycents.
1423237;1457216262;asciilifeform;i suppose it will buy a resistor.
1423238;1457216273;asciilifeform;or two.
1423239;1457216307;BingoBoingo;What, no faith in hawalla over gossipd? or a well-designed altcoin ever happening?
1423240;1457216328;asciilifeform;not like 100% of my work wasn't funded by bad old usd always.
1423241;1457216368;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i can't pay rent in anything but usd and don't see this changing.
1423242;1457216396;mircea_popescu;and in other icecream news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1956mUMp1qz7dr7o1_1280.jpg
1423243;1457216398;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ygl5TQ )
1423244;1457216406;asciilifeform;so for me, nothing really changes.
1423245;1457216422;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.0005522 = 14.302 BTC [-] {2} 
1423246;1457216423;asciilifeform;except that i have nfi what we're doing with trb.
1423247;1457216461;mircea_popescu;what do you expect changed with trb ? you weren't doing it to get rich, were you ? you weren't doing it for redditettes to throw their panties at you, were you ?
1423248;1457216462;BingoBoingo;Alf paid his rent in USD and thusly his life had remained unmanageable
1423249;1457216484;mircea_popescu;how is feb 5th differfent from march 5th ? there's a pile of shitty code implementing sort-of kinda badly a concept, that's being extracted to light.
1423250;1457216493;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was doing it to help kill hitler.
1423251;1457216496;mircea_popescu;it had a failure mode that was known forever. so ?
1423252;1457216523;mircea_popescu;how do you know what you were doing helped kill hitlker and how do you know it doesn't no mo.
1423253;1457216542;asciilifeform;had nfi.
1423254;1457216552;mircea_popescu;well therefore argument is invalid ?
1423255;1457216570;asciilifeform;how?
1423256;1457216589;mircea_popescu;if you already had nfi, no comparison is possible.
1423257;1457216607;asciilifeform;was doing the one thing i knew of that might help, i thought, to nail hitler.
1423258;1457216614;mircea_popescu;and what's changed ?
1423259;1457216624;asciilifeform;well:
1423260;1457216643;asciilifeform;for what currency we will sell cardano et al? camels?
1423261;1457216661;punkman;why not dollars
1423262;1457216663;mircea_popescu;don't tell me we're in any imminent danger of selling cardanos ?!
1423263;1457216673;danielpbarron;we can still play Eulora though, right?
1423264;1457216678;asciilifeform;forget about imminent
1423265;1457216679;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron sure ?
1423266;1457216687;danielpbarron;coppers still sound
1423267;1457216693;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform then how about you make the thing and once it's made we figure out the marketing plan,
1423268;1457216700;mircea_popescu;rather than figure the marketing plan before the thing's even vapour.
1423269;1457216721;asciilifeform;sure.
1423270;1457216744;punkman;black saturday
1423271;1457216751;asciilifeform;but was hoping to hear some conjecture as to what this could even look like.
1423272;1457216761;mircea_popescu;i have no fucking idea what the future looks like.
1423273;1457216799;shinohai;Well Gentleman, I have certainly enjoyed working with you all on trb from the past ~1 year nonetheless.
1423274;1457216809;mod6;we should probably discuss solutions, write a spec of new bitcoin, then implement new bitcoin
1423275;1457216825;mircea_popescu;mod6 part of the problem here is that
1423276;1457216828;mircea_popescu;!s perimeter
1423277;1457216829;assbot;23 results for 'perimeter' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=perimeter
1423278;1457216829;*;danielpbarron would have been more surprised if either 1) bitcoin didn't fail or 2) bitcoin didn't become some sort of one world government causing monster of a thing
1423279;1457216831;mod6;shinohai: o7
1423280;1457216838;asciilifeform;punkman: if you want a dollar cardano, call up ft meade and rsa co., they will happily sell it to you today!
1423281;1457216841;mircea_popescu;i'm not even sure we actually took a single walk around the whole item
1423282;1457216867;punkman;asciilifeform: I'm assuming cardano could also do 'p' one day
1423283;1457216893;punkman;you said you need USD for rent, thus my question
1423284;1457216897;mircea_popescu;ahh where's that dwarves oglaf.
1423285;1457216917;asciilifeform;punkman: i have no intention of partaking in dollar anything, beyond what is required to pay my bills, as anon slave.
1423286;1457216930;mircea_popescu;http://oglaf.com/obituator/
1423287;1457216931;assbot;The Obituator ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8w27T )
1423288;1457216962;mod6;mircea_popescu: noted. ya, we need to get our heads around this thing.
1423289;1457216989;*;asciilifeform took 'walk around whoe item.'
1423290;1457216995;asciilifeform;what of it.
1423291;1457216997;mod6;what did you see?
1423292;1457217027;asciilifeform;oodles of broken?
1423293;1457217037;mircea_popescu;mod6 even if - and consider i'm speaking of a purely cartoon view of reality, merely for illustration purposes - even if trbf "misses the boat" and instead dilligently focuses on fixing satoshi code, and three years later the "winner" of july competition falls on sword that trbf actually fouind and fixed, the relative position of trbf in the world has not suffered one iota.
1423294;1457217043;asciilifeform;i think i described a good bit of it here.
1423295;1457217059;mircea_popescu;so there's really no call for dramatics, in my own mind. gotta do all the work one can as well as one can and see what tomorrow brings.
1423296;1457217075;asciilifeform;l0l fixing satoshi
1423297;1457217081;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform big difference between "me" and "we" in this point.
1423298;1457217082;asciilifeform;medicine for corpse.
1423299;1457217100;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fairnuff
1423300;1457217139;mod6;hmm
1423301;1457217159;mircea_popescu;in other the same news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3e98e7c55649dc7423de0eb26630625a/tumblr_mihjrzicaj1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1423302;1457217161;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1YgmYQr )
1423303;1457217178;asciilifeform;but every computer user knows that a bad schelling point can take generations to dislodge.
1423304;1457217197;mod6;windows 10
1423305;1457217200;asciilifeform;even microshit is not yet gone.
1423306;1457217202;mircea_popescu;well - i thought you didn't like the father pistols, and shouldn't you be thankful this one's dislodging ?
1423307;1457217222;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: now we have no pistol, just bare hands.
1423308;1457217234;mircea_popescu;omaigerd. what the fuck did you expect was going to happen.
1423309;1457217251;mircea_popescu;engineering consistently presents management with two options : a) either shit takes forever or b) well now there's no pistol.
1423310;1457217252;asciilifeform;~this.
1423311;1457217271;mircea_popescu;of fucking course ? do it faster next time ? what ? either you take shorter than there's time or longer. tnd.
1423312;1457217315;asciilifeform;except i admit that i only expected 'this' to happen after cia murdered mircea_popescu and took his coin...
1423313;1457217334;mircea_popescu;lol that'd be pretty sad.
1423314;1457217341;mod6;srsly
1423315;1457217377;mod6;i need a soda.
1423316;1457217402;asciilifeform;what's sad is also that the observables from my console are only with great difficulty distinguishable from above scenario.
1423317;1457217417;mircea_popescu;o.O
1423318;1457217419;mircea_popescu;what, seriously ?
1423319;1457217437;asciilifeform;well mircea_popescu , what do you think they would do?
1423320;1457217447;asciilifeform;~not~ slowly sell it?
1423321;1457217471;mircea_popescu;i have nfi. my money'd be on something stupid, really.
1423322;1457217480;asciilifeform;such as?
1423323;1457217559;mircea_popescu;i dunno... trade it for ethereum. support what's the fatass' name, with the "consensus" bullcrap ? huey something ?
1423324;1457217816;asciilifeform;and trading for usd is better?
1423325;1457217846;mircea_popescu;looky : i said divesting, and you're not going to obtain clarification or further infos about it no matter how it gets turned around.
1423326;1457217860;asciilifeform;wasn't asking for.
1423327;1457217883;asciilifeform;besides the manometer speaks for itself.
1423328;1457217890;mircea_popescu;well maybe not deliberately, but yes.
1423329;1457217990;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu does know what it is called when a king divests, though.
1423330;1457218036;mircea_popescu;what ?
1423331;1457218044;asciilifeform;abdication?
1423332;1457218061;mircea_popescu;eh for crying out loud. so what, i can only buy, in your model ? or not even ?
1423333;1457218090;asciilifeform;nah mircea_popescu is doing precisely the logical thing.
1423334;1457218136;asciilifeform;which i am trying to derive the implications of.
1423335;1457218191;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 278490 @ 0.00055084 = 153.4034 BTC [-] {16} 
1423336;1457218225;asciilifeform;one of which seems to me, to be the conclusion that anyone with btc is bagholder.
1423337;1457218252;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 208821 @ 0.00054647 = 114.1144 BTC [-] {11} 
1423338;1457218271;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1423335 << it begins?
1423339;1457218271;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 22:49:51; assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 278490 @ 0.00055084 = 153.4034 BTC [-] {16} 
1423340;1457218341;mircea_popescu;well yes, in principle anyone left holding "a very slow, unreliable and expensive visa run by idiots" is definitionally a bagholder.
1423341;1457218346;mircea_popescu;this of course has ~nothing to do with me.
1423342;1457218421;asciilifeform;does mircea_popescu know the 'blue eyes puzzle' ?
1423343;1457218430;mircea_popescu;howssat ?
1423344;1457218435;assbot;[MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 10000 @ 0.00020901 = 2.0901 BTC [+] {2} 
1423345;1457218435;asciilifeform;old lulzy maths riddle
1423346;1457218449;asciilifeform;;;google blue eyes suicide
1423347;1457218450;gribble;Across Five Aprils - Blue Eyed Suicide - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAlZWnkUc4>; across five aprils-blue eyed suicide - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Njk26wIM0E>; ACROSS FIVE APRILS LYRICS - Blue Eyed Suicide - PLyrics.com: <http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/acrossfiveaprils/blueeyedsuicide.html>
1423348;1457218456;asciilifeform;Hm
1423349;1457218498;asciilifeform;http://puzzling.stackexchange.com/a/28196
1423350;1457218499;assbot;The origin of the blue eyes puzzle - Puzzling Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8x1Fd )
1423351;1457218506;BingoBoingo;https://xkcd.com/solution.html
1423352;1457218507;assbot;Blue Eyes - The Hardest Logic Puzzle in the World - Solution ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8x4kj )
1423353;1457218517;asciilifeform;^ closest to the version i was taught.
1423354;1457218533;asciilifeform;(by - believe or not - brin the elder)
1423355;1457218579;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i prefer the sultanic one, with the dead chx, moar.
1423356;1457218588;BingoBoingo;lol
1423357;1457218589;punkman;;;ticker --market all
1423358;1457218598;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 402.55, vol: 16883.73896565 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 405.499, vol: 9116.71013 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 400.97, vol: 45936.99430123 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 411.737739, vol: 63957.52380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 397.02, vol: 4962.96713209 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 399.92364, vol: 189.31492388 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1423359;1457218600;BingoBoingo;;;more punkman
1423360;1457218600;gribble;406.194456093
1423361;1457218623;asciilifeform;^ hitler must be buyin'.
1423362;1457218671;asciilifeform;so yes, sultan only told the cuckolds what they already knew...!
1423363;1457218767;asciilifeform;brin's version had h cuckolds grow horns, which only ~other blokes~ could see.
1423364;1457218775;asciilifeform;imho more elegant.
1423365;1457218789;asciilifeform;but logically == to the linked ver.
1423366;1457219196;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.13729319 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b128
1423367;1457219686;mircea_popescu;ah the recursive "it must be me too then"
1423368;1457220168;mircea_popescu;!up CrazyTruthYakDDS
1423369;1457220207;CrazyTruthYakDDS;thanks; was seeing if you had anything on your blog about ETH; seems like major pump and dump to me
1423370;1457220239;CrazyTruthYakDDS;what i saw was portrait of an adult woman :)
1423371;1457220432;mircea_popescu;;;google site:trilema.com eth
1423372;1457220433;gribble;The importance of backups, from the other side. on Trilema - A blog ...: <http://trilema.com/2015/the-importance-of-backups-from-the-other-side/>
1423373;1457220439;mircea_popescu;apparently not ? o.O
1423374;1457220451;mircea_popescu;anyway, yes, major pump and dump. it's in the logs if not on trilema./
1423375;1457220477;CrazyTruthYakDDS;oh the logs, forgot about those duh :P
1423376;1457220500;CrazyTruthYakDDS;just find it hilarious everyone is screaming ETH and that BTC is dead
1423377;1457220510;CrazyTruthYakDDS;since oh you can't use the blockchain for coffee purchase
1423378;1457220516;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1423367 << aha! in brin's ver, it was a traveller, who didnt like the food, and before packing up, spitefully shouts 'hey guyz! some of you have horns!'
1423379;1457220516;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 23:14:46; mircea_popescu: ah the recursive "it must be me too then"
1423380;1457220593;asciilifeform;CrazyTruthYakDDS: see also:
1423381;1457220599;asciilifeform;!s waterfall
1423382;1457220599;assbot;116 results for 'waterfall' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=waterfall
1423383;1457220779;CrazyTruthYakDDS;ty i will look; i feel ETH is play for some BTC holders to pump and dump to more BTC :)
1423384;1457220826;kakobrekla;i shorted eth at 0.0295
1423385;1457220990;CrazyTruthYakDDS;in 3 months, eth has gone from 30m to close to a billion
1423386;1457221006;CrazyTruthYakDDS;and the only real "value" people have pushed is that microsoft azure is using it as an api
1423387;1457221046;CrazyTruthYakDDS;which is meaningless, i am sure microsoft also has api tools to work with BTC as well
1423388;1457221073;CrazyTruthYakDDS;hell, factom is better, as it is at least taking advantage of the BTC blockchain/security if i am not mistaken
1423389;1457221077;CrazyTruthYakDDS;sort of like counterparty did
1423390;1457221621;shinohai;;;blocks
1423391;1457221622;gribble;401337
1423392;1457222058;BingoBoingo;!up CrazyTruthYakDDS
1423393;1457223804;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23999 @ 0.00055509 = 13.3216 BTC [+] {4} 
1423394;1457224535;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7698 @ 0.00055658 = 4.2846 BTC [+] {3} 
1423395;1457225206;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00055728 = 9.5016 BTC [+] {3} 
1423396;1457225425;deedbot-;[Qntra] Leaked Voicemails Show Donald Trump-Clinton Cozy With Liberal Media - http://qntra.net/2016/03/leaked-voicemails-show-donald-trump-clinton-cozy-with-liberal-media/
1423397;1457225728;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all --currency rmb
1423398;1457225735;gribble;BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2647.0, vol: 61059.34960000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2647.0
1423399;1457225999;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.0005537 = 12.7905 BTC [-] {2} 
1423400;1457226853;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16009 @ 0.00055391 = 8.8675 BTC [+] {3} 
1423401;1457227463;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15345 @ 0.00055729 = 8.5516 BTC [+]
1423402;1457230306;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo "The anger of the base directed at anything: socialism, political correctness, brown people, etc; which they feel is giving them an unfair shake. This demographic also carries a substantial number of people among them who have traits that make them readily victimized for con artists." missing a verb, no idea what's going on at the end and prolly 50% too many words
1423403;1457230330;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17749 @ 0.00055717 = 9.8892 BTC [-]
1423404;1457230334;mircea_popescu;"the word "collectible" is attached the coins" << samne problem. good idea but the writing...
1423405;1457230478;mircea_popescu;"The failure of the GOP and the conservative movement, to the extent one exists in the United States, to police their ranks for con artists like Glenn Beck out to fleece their rank has lead to this." // "The success of sympathy conmen like Glenn Beck or Donald Trump enjoy fleecing the angry-socialist flock makes one wonder whether the GOP even exists in any meaningful sense."
1423406;1457230511;asciilifeform;zhirinovsky.
1423407;1457230574;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41300 @ 0.00055711 = 23.0086 BTC [-] {2} 
1423408;1457231428;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29472 @ 0.00055701 = 16.4162 BTC [-]
1423409;1457231489;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4076 @ 0.0005537 = 2.2569 BTC [-] {2} 
1423410;1457231993;mircea_popescu;!h
1423411;1457231993;assbot;http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
1423412;1457232282;*;asciilifeform all ears for ideas re: on what to blow a modest (~10kusd) worth of coin while it is still worth something.
1423413;1457232309;shinohai;Send me some. I'll blow it for you :D
1423414;1457232316;mircea_popescu;eulora copper! :D
1423415;1457232322;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun play.
1423416;1457232325;mircea_popescu;not like there's all that much ELSE to do with bitcoin anyway
1423417;1457232339;asciilifeform;well no shit, if this were an easy problem, i'd say nothing.
1423418;1457232357;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1423419;1457232373;asciilifeform;the one thing i pointedly won't do with it is give it to usg.
1423420;1457232409;mircea_popescu;then there really isn't anything besides ecu.
1423421;1457232426;asciilifeform;what's an ecu
1423422;1457232437;mircea_popescu;eulora copper.
1423423;1457232446;mircea_popescu;isn't it clever ? ECu. see ? cause Cu is copper.
1423424;1457232450;asciilifeform;aha neato.
1423425;1457232465;mircea_popescu;and e stands for eulora. but could also be like in email.
1423426;1457232469;mircea_popescu;it's very clever i think.
1423427;1457232795;mircea_popescu;!gettrust artizan
1423428;1457232795;assbot;artizan is not registered in WoT.
1423429;1457232923;mircea_popescu;!gettrust artizan
1423430;1457232926;assbot;Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user artizan: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=artizan | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/artizan/
1423431;1457232938;mircea_popescu;!rate artizan 1 Euloran
1423432;1457232938;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/45c2985efb552b6a
1423433;1457232963;mircea_popescu;!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.artizan.1:2e61c9028b68fdb12bbd0e1e5e0c1f076aa4f82140e58aad9c03e4344929e4e7
1423434;1457232963;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 1 for artizan with note: Euloran
1423435;1457233139;asciilifeform;wonder if that plane ticket thing is still around.
1423436;1457233147;asciilifeform;(though it isn't as if i have anywhere to go to.)
1423437;1457233601;mircea_popescu;could go to washington via melbourne
1423438;1457233607;mircea_popescu;heck, you could come over for a spell.
1423439;1457233616;mircea_popescu;your btc certainly good here.
1423440;1457233733;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wish i had any time.
1423441;1457233751;mircea_popescu;so send the pet over on a btc-fueled joyride.
1423442;1457233765;mircea_popescu;+5 lbs guaranteed over a week, 96% or more from icecream.
1423443;1457233774;asciilifeform;the one thing i cannot buy with whatever.
1423444;1457233810;asciilifeform;l0l pet could not even be persuaded to go to the funfest c3!
1423445;1457233825;asciilifeform;(believe, i tried)
1423446;1457233845;asciilifeform;pet purrs slowly in its perch.
1423447;1457233946;mircea_popescu;a well. i shall go out and have some myself.
1423448;1457233967;asciilifeform;enjoy mircea_popescu
1423449;1457235393;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00055158 = 11.7487 BTC [-] {5} 
1423450;1457236143;gernika;asciilifeform: cheapair.com seems to still take btc.  I bought some tix to europe from them with btc a few years ago.
1423451;1457236912;asciilifeform;i used it when i went to c2 ( though i paid with usd. )
1423452;1457238199;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00054977 = 15.2286 BTC [-] {2} 
1423453;1457241737;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1423454;1457241743;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 398.78, vol: 14818.59620292 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 402.739, vol: 8168.53208 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.0, vol: 45355.82363454 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 408.59049, vol: 61049.54870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 395.593, vol: 3988.1908336 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 397.030903, vol: 137.36785246 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1423455;1457241756;BingoBoingo;;;more
1423456;1457241757;gribble;402.806764405
1423457;1457241981;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00054986 = 29.0326 BTC [+] {6} 
1423458;1457243149;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/#comment-116709 << lose a kingdom, gain another, or how did that go.
1423459;1457243151;assbot;I'll pay for your tits on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SrkpdO )
1423460;1457243198;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/03/leaked-voicemails-show-donald-trump-clinton-cozy-with-liberal-media/#comment-47903 << Much insult to MP
1423461;1457243198;assbot;Leaked Voicemails Show Donald Trump-Clinton Cozy With Liberal Media | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Srkqyc )
1423462;1457243201;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2623 @ 0.00054902 = 1.4401 BTC [-] {3} 
1423463;1457243262;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20891 @ 0.000549 = 11.4692 BTC [-]
1423464;1457244290;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1423465;1457244293;gribble;Current Blocks: 401379 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1820 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 0 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1423466;1457244848;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00055237 = 3.8114 BTC [+] {2} 
1423467;1457245397;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7755 @ 0.0005509 = 4.2722 BTC [-] {2} 
1423468;1457248081;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22239 @ 0.00055238 = 12.2844 BTC [+]
1423469;1457248537;*;ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
1423470;1457249167;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
1423471;1457249301;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10639 @ 0.00055426 = 5.8968 BTC [+] {2} 
1423472;1457249362;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37261 @ 0.0005496 = 20.4786 BTC [-] {3} 
1423473;1457249484;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23365 @ 0.00054866 = 12.8194 BTC [-] {3} 
1423474;1457251863;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42000 @ 0.00055282 = 23.2184 BTC [+] {2} 
1423475;1457253857;ben_vulpes;http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116712 << asciilifeform, mod6, jurov, PeterL, mircea_popescu, kakobrekla (in moderation, hopefully passes the bowels of mircea_popescu's wprexen soon)
1423476;1457253858;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QWvD4x )
1423477;1457254159;ben_vulpes;http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp
1423478;1457254160;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QWwaDt )
1423479;1457254311;ben_vulpes;if it's possible to confirm that the contents of `sig` corresponded to the *single* `addr` to which the block subsidy+fees (eg first transaction) pays out, i believe that the addidional `addr` header field could be omitted.
1423480;1457254451;ben_vulpes;duh yeah `addr` field not necessary
1423481;1457255279;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00055298 = 21.0409 BTC [+] {3} 
1423482;1457255584;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00055282 = 4.2844 BTC [-] {2} 
1423483;1457255930;ben_vulpes;http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-capacity-nightmare-fees-reality/ << annals of "don't mention qntra whatever you do"
1423484;1457255931;assbot;Bitcoin's Capacity Issues No 'Nightmare', But Higher Fees May Be New Reality - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1p8htrn )
1423485;1457255938;ben_vulpes;unknown actor lol
1423486;1457256333;ben_vulpes;i think that the above change would necessitate a new genesis block, as i suspect that difficulty is far too high for the hardware capable of hashing as described to generate a single block in any sort of reasonable time
1423487;1457258634;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00055128 = 8.5724 BTC [-] {3} 
1423488;1457260821;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423470 << trivially: an addr is valid if a coinbase some time fed it, and not otherwise. (in this hypothetical alt)
1423489;1457260821;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 07:26:07; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
1423490;1457260851;asciilifeform;want an addr, mine a block.
1423491;1457261016;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.
1423492;1457261016;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 08:49:19; ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp
1423493;1457263575;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67029 @ 0.00054915 = 36.809 BTC [-] {5} 
1423494;1457266373;asciilifeform;;;ticker
1423495;1457266374;gribble;Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 405.45, Best ask: 405.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 405.45, 24 hour volume: 43906.29639634, 24 hour low: 389.0, 24 hour high: 406.15, 24 hour vwap: None
1423496;1457266433;asciilifeform;^ usg says 'ty mp, have moar fine fresh printolade'
1423497;1457266557;asciilifeform;'got any moar of that sole known antiinflatronium you don't want? we'll buy!'
1423498;1457266686;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72750 @ 0.00054749 = 39.8299 BTC [-] {7} 
1423499;1457266738;asciilifeform;^ shouldn't mpex be denominated in gold pieces-of-eight now?!1111
1423500;1457266790;asciilifeform;wb nubbins`
1423501;1457266798;nubbins`;ty
1423502;1457266808;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00054629 = 10.9804 BTC [-] {2} 
1423503;1457266816;*;nubbins` went and built a computer from parts
1423504;1457266828;nubbins`;somewhat inexplicably, first time i've done so in my 34 years
1423505;1457266837;asciilifeform;congrats! Z80 or 6502?
1423506;1457266863;nubbins`;sadly, i went for the modern comforts of an i5 (i know)
1423507;1457266874;asciilifeform;urgh
1423508;1457266881;nubbins`;but it was beterrn that and the 6502 for a while
1423509;1457266885;nubbins`;between, even
1423510;1457266914;nubbins`;it's a "work machine", so i'm more concerned about how it runs illustrator than how well it protects the private keys that aren't on it
1423511;1457266991;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16906 @ 0.00055082 = 9.3122 BTC [+] {2} 
1423512;1457267066;nubbins`;speaking of work, i have a large number of S.NSA t-shirts still taking up space in my basement
1423513;1457267118;nubbins`;mircea_popescu the current lease on floor space expires April 30 2016; property will be considered to be abandoned if arrangements not made by that point
1423514;1457267342;*;asciilifeform had nfi
1423515;1457267364;nubbins`;going on 2.5 years now
1423516;1457267377;nubbins`;in retrospect, prob pulled the trigger a bit early on ordering tees
1423517;1457267388;asciilifeform;i'd buy'em but money broke.
1423518;1457267402;nubbins`;they're already paid for 8)
1423519;1457267402;asciilifeform;dun work no moar.
1423520;1457267407;nubbins`;no?
1423521;1457267422;asciilifeform;see yest. logz.
1423522;1457267426;nubbins`;alf left the straight path to live the life of the boheme?
1423523;1457267429;*;nubbins` wanders off to read
1423524;1457267434;asciilifeform;not me
1423525;1457267441;asciilifeform;it.
1423526;1457267479;asciilifeform;!s from:mircea_popescu divesting
1423527;1457267480;assbot;3 results for 'from:mircea_popescu divesting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+divesting
1423528;1457267487;asciilifeform;^
1423529;1457268089;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.0005535 = 11.5405 BTC [+]
1423530;1457268333;assbot;[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 465 @ 0.00260635 = 1.212 BTC [+] {8} 
1423531;1457268401;jurov;!t m x.eur
1423532;1457268401;assbot;[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00254491 / 0.00257652 / 0.00262899 (1006 shares, 2.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259324 / 0.00262899 (2053 shares, 5.32 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)
1423533;1457268516;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10308 @ 0.0005535 = 5.7055 BTC [+]
1423534;1457269004;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00054568 = 29.0302 BTC [-] {4} 
1423535;1457269065;nubbins`;ah
1423536;1457269085;nubbins`;asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
1423537;1457269156;nubbins`;or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together
1423538;1457269171;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b130
1423539;1457269248;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109650 @ 0.00054457 = 59.7121 BTC [-] {8} 
1423540;1457269316;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423537 << you forgot mpex subscriptions
1423541;1457269316;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 12:59:16; nubbins`: or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together
1423542;1457269343;nubbins`;right, yeah
1423543;1457269349;nubbins`;i "forgot" those
1423544;1457269361;asciilifeform;( easily 95+% of it all iirc )
1423545;1457269372;nubbins`;easily actually a thing that's real too
1423546;1457269424;asciilifeform;real vs what ?
1423547;1457269504;nubbins`;O.O
1423548;1457269595;nubbins`;made-up
1423549;1457269607;nubbins`;(what other vs did you expect?!)
1423550;1457269624;asciilifeform;i mean, if nubbins` thinks that mircea_popescu runs an arse-mouth system and buys own subscriptions, what does he pay divs from?
1423551;1457269633;asciilifeform;gifts from god?
1423552;1457269647;nubbins`;6 vs half doz
1423553;1457269659;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423412 << just so i can suggest appropriately, this is money you don't need/want for practical use?
1423554;1457269659;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 02:44:42; *: asciilifeform all ears for ideas re: on what to blow a modest (~10kusd) worth of coin while it is still worth something.
1423555;1457269679;asciilifeform;nubbins`: didja catch up with the log?
1423556;1457269698;nubbins`;yeah, more or less. everyone QQing about the fyootur
1423557;1457269708;nubbins`;lords tossing themselves from the parapets
1423558;1457269722;nubbins`;anguished wails of those who have lost hope
1423559;1457269771;nubbins`;what i'm asking is if toilet paper is a good suggestion, or if a motorcycle is a good suggestion
1423560;1457269778;nubbins`;there
1423561;1457269786;asciilifeform;neither
1423562;1457269788;nubbins`;'s a reaosnable variety of ways one could blow $10k
1423563;1457269825;asciilifeform;didja miss the part where i refuse to give ANY of it to usg?
1423564;1457269840;nubbins`;well your other option is to keep it
1423565;1457269847;nubbins`;how else to ensure?
1423566;1457269848;asciilifeform;it can't at any point become usd.
1423567;1457269857;nubbins`;send it to 1bitcoineater.
1423568;1457269873;asciilifeform;well question was re how to usefully burn it.
1423569;1457269889;nubbins`;buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd.
1423570;1457269899;asciilifeform;buy what?
1423571;1457269900;nubbins`;guess you'll have to un-usefully burn it
1423572;1457269921;asciilifeform;there is literally nothing to buy
1423573;1457269927;nubbins`;buy some of my art books
1423574;1457269929;mircea_popescu;* asciilifeform had nfi >> you recall, we made a t-shirt design, he agreed to print for a very nice rate, ended up storing them for us.
1423575;1457269949;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ah right
1423576;1457269954;mircea_popescu;nubbins` in honesty at this point i see ~0 chance we'll deliver in any sort of human timeframe, or for that matter have any use for 3 to 25 year old tshirts.
1423577;1457269975;mircea_popescu;thanks for your kind help in the matter - feel free to distribute the remaining tees to whosoever you feel like and that'd be that.
1423578;1457269991;nubbins`;understood. thanks for the work!
1423579;1457270000;nubbins`;was not insignificant for our fledgling business at the time
1423580;1457270009;*;asciilifeform still has a few sealed ones in crate 
1423581;1457270013;mircea_popescu;ah, even better then!
1423582;1457270031;mircea_popescu;i don't even recall how many we ended up distributing, was it like 10% ? 25% ? 1% ?
1423583;1457270041;thestringpuller;oh man i'm getting old.
1423584;1457270046;*;thestringpuller just turned 28
1423585;1457270055;nubbins`;i think something around 20-30% of them left my hands
1423586;1457270067;mircea_popescu;oh, well then really - this is above industry average.
1423587;1457270069;nubbins`;thestringpuller you're technically still a child at 28
1423588;1457270093;nubbins`;mircea_popescu we've been moving the biz away from textile printing and towards paper/fine art printing
1423589;1457270097;nubbins`;margins way better
1423590;1457270101;nubbins`;storage easier
1423591;1457270102;mircea_popescu;see what you did that
1423592;1457270103;mircea_popescu;aha.
1423593;1457270114;thestringpuller;nubbins`: oh well cool. i guess I'll just wait for the big 3-0
1423594;1457270118;nubbins`;fucking up a t-shirt print = $6 wasted. fucking up a poster = $0.70 wasted
1423595;1457270124;thestringpuller;nubbins`: lithography?
1423596;1457270133;nubbins`;serigraphy, in fact
1423597;1457270138;mircea_popescu;i see what you did thar*
1423598;1457270163;nubbins`;flat stock is something people put on their wall & admire -- see "Imagine a game" bitcoin posters
1423599;1457270167;thestringpuller;you must really like screen printing! lol
1423600;1457270174;nubbins`;t-shirt is something people spill mustard on & get cum all over
1423601;1457270175;mircea_popescu;i think he does!
1423602;1457270189;nubbins`;indeed i do
1423603;1457270213;nubbins`;http://www.pinkeyeprints.com/product/a-whale-and-other-disorders-4
1423604;1457270215;assbot;A Whale and Other Disorders #4 / PINK EYE PRINT COMPANY ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCStii )
1423605;1457270219;nubbins`;our latest tome
1423606;1457270224;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00054386 = 30.7281 BTC [-] {5} 
1423607;1457270263;thestringpuller;i eneded up framing that print you gave me as bonus when I ordered shirts
1423608;1457270263;nubbins`;FTR i've been teaching myself hardcover bookbinding and TRB.book would have been gorgeous
1423609;1457270279;nubbins`;thestringpuller can't quite recall the print
1423610;1457270284;mircea_popescu;18<nubbins`> buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.
1423611;1457270311;danielpbarron;nubbins`, how much to send me a couple of those shirts :)
1423612;1457270314;thestringpuller;it has a cloud on one side and scissors in in the desert on another side
1423613;1457270328;nubbins`;danielpbarron PM with mailing addy and i'll get a shipping quote
1423614;1457270342;nubbins`;thestringpuller ahh yes, from pepa chan
1423615;1457270349;nubbins`;she has a piece in book linked above
1423616;1457270352;asciilifeform;'On what grave, is carved the name of the self you lost?' -- from nubbins` link
1423617;1457270386;nubbins`;for whom does the night paint the dawn?
1423618;1457270422;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423610 << why would i care what ~seller~ does with it.
1423619;1457270422;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 13:18:04; mircea_popescu: 18<nubbins`> buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.
1423620;1457270435;mircea_popescu;no idea.
1423621;1457270448;asciilifeform;problem is that nobody's selling anything i need.
1423622;1457270450;mircea_popescu;but - eulora copper. not only exact answer, but provably the only one.
1423623;1457270462;nubbins`;no, problem is we don't know what you need because you're not telling us
1423624;1457270470;*;nubbins` can't imagine alf in a department store
1423625;1457270473;mircea_popescu;wait, the criteria is "buy something useful with bitcoin" && "seller may not give btc to usd" ?
1423626;1457270484;mircea_popescu;my dear alf, not even cardano would qualify!
1423627;1457270496;asciilifeform;dun need these for anything. i don't even own iron that could run eulora.
1423628;1457270501;asciilifeform;and again no
1423629;1457270512;mircea_popescu;maybe specifying the problem you're trying to solve would help.
1423630;1457270516;asciilifeform;~i~
1423631;1457270525;asciilifeform;dont want to see usd.
1423632;1457270548;mircea_popescu;so, "buy something useful with bitcoin - must be physical item or service that i can use"
1423633;1457270549;mircea_popescu;?
1423634;1457270557;asciilifeform;AHA
1423635;1457270559;mircea_popescu;SFYL.
1423636;1457270563;nubbins`;heh.
1423637;1457270568;nubbins`;waste it on shit
1423638;1457270571;nubbins`;what odds
1423639;1457270579;mircea_popescu;bitcoin, after night on a decade of empty posturing, has exactly no sort of useful anything on offer.
1423640;1457270590;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16332 @ 0.00054385 = 8.8822 BTC [-] {2} 
1423641;1457270590;nubbins`;shit, sorry, "what odds" is a newfy-ism
1423642;1457270593;asciilifeform;nubbins`: ~which~ shit
1423643;1457270608;nubbins`;asciilifeform that's what i've been trying to ask you and you've been steadfastly not answering
1423644;1457270626;asciilifeform;because that was my very puzzle!
1423645;1457270649;nubbins`;"what can i buy" as a process of elimination isn't something i'm interested in participating in
1423646;1457270651;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4195 @ 0.00054361 = 2.2804 BTC [-]
1423647;1457270660;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: it's a good place to store money when it's not in use...
1423648;1457270677;mircea_popescu;used to be, at any rate.
1423649;1457270679;thestringpuller;only good thing to sell BTC for is fiat, but whats the point in that if your income 99% fiat
1423650;1457270684;nubbins`;https://www.instagram.com/p/BCGPGdXERqU/
1423651;1457270685;assbot;Instagram ... ( http://bit.ly/21Pu7MV )
1423652;1457270687;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, as far as i can tell, is right, and there is nothing to buy.
1423653;1457270688;nubbins`;^ my latest tome
1423654;1457270735;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: i won't sell for fiat because it gets taxed.
1423655;1457270744;asciilifeform;scorched motherfucking earth.
1423656;1457270749;thestringpuller;If you're paid in fiat why would you ever sell bitcoin at all?
1423657;1457270767;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: because it's going to 0?
1423658;1457270802;thestringpuller;going to 0 as in game over? or going to 0 for a minute then we'll be back to $X price.
1423659;1457270820;asciilifeform;the former.
1423660;1457270824;asciilifeform;see log.
1423661;1457270876;nubbins`;deal when we signed up was 0 or oo
1423662;1457270886;nubbins`;we all knew it
1423663;1457270889;asciilifeform;aha.
1423664;1457270911;nubbins`;asciilifeform there's always bullion
1423665;1457270926;asciilifeform;who in wot sells it?
1423666;1457270943;asciilifeform;IN MY WOT
1423667;1457270970;asciilifeform;and i'm not interested in it being scanned in usg mail, either.
1423668;1457270992;nubbins`;well that excludes ME from selling it to you
1423669;1457270996;asciilifeform;or 'lost'.
1423670;1457271025;asciilifeform;plus wtf do i need metal for.
1423671;1457271047;*;nubbins` sent a $17,000 package via fedex last year
1423672;1457271052;asciilifeform;would be again stuck with what useful thing to trade it for.
1423673;1457271058;nubbins`;you need metal to convert btc-usd without notice
1423674;1457271069;nubbins`;wait, you don't want usd or something
1423675;1457271079;asciilifeform;metal gets waterfalled with usg paper gold.
1423676;1457271081;nubbins`;too useful to pay rent or w/e
1423677;1457271107;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i don't want any of my btc to feed usg.
1423678;1457271125;nubbins`;you don't get to control what happens to it once it leaves your hands
1423679;1457271145;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you don't get it.
1423680;1457271151;nubbins`;apparently not
1423681;1457271167;nubbins`;try actually explaining this time
1423682;1457271182;asciilifeform;what i don't want is its motion to add to my detectable usg taxability in any way.
1423683;1457271211;nubbins`;right.
1423684;1457271221;nubbins`;so, obviously usg is reading this right now
1423685;1457271228;asciilifeform;which is why i won't accept usd wires from people, etc.
1423686;1457271238;asciilifeform;usg reads everything.
1423687;1457271240;nubbins`;right
1423688;1457271270;asciilifeform;recall kolhoz inmates refusing to plant?
1423689;1457271280;asciilifeform;killing own livestock?
1423690;1457271288;asciilifeform;well.
1423691;1457271292;nubbins`;what broad categories of goods or services would you accept in return for your btc?
1423692;1457271323;nubbins`;in a perfect world where the transfer of such goods or the provision of such services was able to take place in absolute secrect
1423693;1457271330;nubbins`;within the bounds of credulity
1423694;1457271353;nubbins`;take your time, i gotta shit
1423695;1457271355;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: then why business as usual if bitcoin is dead?
1423696;1457271368;asciilifeform;escape from my concentration camp, for one thing. But that costs 1000x what i have.
1423697;1457271375;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: ?
1423698;1457271444;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.00054361 = 9.1598 BTC [-] {2} 
1423699;1457271579;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: BTC just failed, now what? << It seems business as usual tho...or is #b-a closing shop?
1423700;1457271852;nubbins`;lel
1423701;1457271856;nubbins`;alf the absolutist
1423702;1457271869;nubbins`;he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet
1423703;1457271873;nubbins`;w/ air support
1423704;1457272021;*;nubbins` can't imagine the sort of mindset required to believe that the only two viable options for one's future are stasis or a $10mn windfall
1423705;1457272033;nubbins`;but this may be a failing on my part
1423706;1457272115;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2138 @ 0.00054842 = 1.1725 BTC [+] {2} 
1423707;1457272115;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?
1423708;1457272116;assbot;No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January - February 2016 Joint Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOwNp )
1423709;1457272300;nubbins`;https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/496v30/so_it_was_a_fee_event_and_everyone_was_screaming/d0pk4vm
1423710;1457272301;assbot;Tibanne comments on So it was a Fee Event? And everyone was screaming and I was still confused. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJQT )
1423711;1457272301;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116715
1423712;1457272303;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJjK )
1423713;1457272401;nubbins`;http://collectivelyconscious.net/articles/oscar-winning-star-wars-animator-admits-he-took-lsd-while-working-on-return-of-the-jedi/
1423714;1457272402;assbot;Oscar-Winning Star Wars Animator Admits He Took LSD While Working On Return Of The Jedi ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOTaX )
1423715;1457272403;nubbins`;lule
1423716;1457272425;nubbins`;shit article, don't click
1423717;1457272430;nubbins`;but this quote is ok
1423718;1457272437;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423469 << this is a while out yet.
1423719;1457272437;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 07:15:37; *: ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
1423720;1457272454;nubbins`;“I took LSD when I was working on ‘Return of the Jedi,’ and it’s fine. It was, like, very calming. And so I decided to go back to work. When I walked into the blue-screen stage, it was like, ‘Ahhh.’ I took way too much,”
1423721;1457272576;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.
1423722;1457272576;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 10:43:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.
1423723;1457272648;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping.
1423724;1457272648;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 12:29:48; asciilifeform: i'd buy'em but money broke.
1423725;1457272694;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423536 << obvious or not, not really the case. last i did something like this was when i said "100 is good enough" and people insisted on running up to 1k.
1423726;1457272694;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
1423727;1457272713;nubbins`;heh
1423728;1457272726;mircea_popescu;and yes, i can readily credit myself retrospectively with saving bitcoin through that, but why even bother.
1423729;1457272752;nubbins`;nihilism ftw
1423730;1457272787;nubbins`;<+mircea_popescu>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping. <<< he's right
1423731;1457272841;nubbins`;wait now.
1423732;1457272867;nubbins`;alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?
1423733;1457272877;mircea_popescu;alf lives in a complicated world.
1423734;1457272893;nubbins`;in fairness, i'd ship the box via canada post.
1423735;1457272910;mircea_popescu;oh, why not bitcoin post ?
1423736;1457272915;mircea_popescu;you quisling you.
1423737;1457272920;nubbins`;no coverage in my area
1423738;1457272928;mircea_popescu;aw shit. i forgot.
1423739;1457272944;nubbins`;does virgin airlines take btc?
1423740;1457272949;nubbins`;or just the outer space one
1423741;1457272973;mircea_popescu;you could airdrop them from orbit on alf's house. seeing how he lives next door to obama's rural cousin #5460580, prolly give norad a good wake-up.
1423742;1457272996;nubbins`;that would require entering US airspace, which is on my verboten list
1423743;1457273026;nubbins`;ever since the nudie scans at the airports were deemed non-optional
1423744;1457273033;thestringpuller;oh man what an interesting birthday.
1423745;1457273033;mircea_popescu;heh
1423746;1457273044;thestringpuller;i figured node warfare would become a thing.
1423747;1457273046;nubbins`;just imagine how interesting it'll be in two years
1423748;1457273053;nubbins`;node warfare sort of is a thing already
1423749;1457273061;*;thestringpuller has a feeling he will be depressed when reading upcoming s.bbet statement
1423750;1457273069;nubbins`;just this upcoming one?!
1423751;1457273089;nubbins`;man, you guys must've missed me
1423752;1457273111;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423707 << definitely discussed. there is deliberately no simple way of refirmwaring the thing.
1423753;1457273111;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 13:48:35; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?
1423754;1457273122;asciilifeform;so it's, at least without laboratory instruments, a once-per-device thing.
1423755;1457273136;asciilifeform;(i would even use antifuse roms but they are NOT SOLD)
1423756;1457273139;mircea_popescu;not the substance of the q as i see it.
1423757;1457273147;mircea_popescu;will the thing be buildable by others on a v process.
1423758;1457273147;asciilifeform;which then
1423759;1457273159;asciilifeform;yes.
1423760;1457273164;asciilifeform;this is key.
1423761;1457273191;nubbins`;http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg
1423762;1457273192;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQ5uU )
1423763;1457273237;mircea_popescu;aite.
1423764;1457273267;nubbins`;https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/495vr7/tifu_by_inquiring_to_apple_about_ibutt/
1423765;1457273268;assbot;TIFU by inquiring to Apple about iButt : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQddZ )
1423766;1457273271;*;nubbins` commits seppuku
1423767;1457273312;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423702 << i'm not interested in becoming an even poorer and lower peon in a shittier country. it's living-off-capital or death plox.
1423768;1457273312;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 13:44:29; nubbins`: he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet
1423769;1457273334;asciilifeform;this is referred to as 'breaking out of gravity well'
1423770;1457273344;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: reminds me of affluent guy who ends up in witness protection washing rental cars for a living
1423771;1457273348;nubbins`;alf, i don't think you quite understand how few shittier countries exist than the one you're in
1423772;1457273378;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah well for living off capital it helps having capital, and it helps even more (say H(N^2)) to be the kind of spirit that is helped by capital
1423773;1457273384;mircea_popescu;usually evidenced by having the capital in the first place.
1423774;1457273393;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no shit
1423775;1457273416;*;nubbins` flatly doesn't believe alf is "poor" in any reasonable sense of the word
1423776;1457273429;asciilifeform;nubbins`: as poor as any wretch. work-a-day-eat-a-day poor.
1423777;1457273438;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: do you live off food stamps, or drink 40's on the stoop?
1423778;1457273447;nubbins`;that's a function of how much you spend, not how much you make.
1423779;1457273449;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: understand what 'poor' means
1423780;1457273451;thestringpuller;how many black people live within 300 yards of oyu?
1423781;1457273457;nubbins`;thestringpuller he lives in DC
1423782;1457273469;thestringpuller;how many people do crack on your street?
1423783;1457273469;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: at least 20
1423784;1457273473;nubbins`;heh
1423785;1457273487;asciilifeform;how the hell would i know what dope my neighbours take ?
1423786;1457273496;nubbins`;for alf, "poor" means he can't stop working permanently
1423787;1457273496;asciilifeform;i don't take it with them.
1423788;1457273500;asciilifeform;nubbins` has it.
1423789;1457273508;nubbins`;that's a slave's definition
1423790;1457273515;nubbins`;enjoy yr chains
1423791;1457273518;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: you should move to projects for a year an live like the actual slave negros.
1423792;1457273545;asciilifeform;nubbins`: being a slave, it would be stepping outside of my competence to attempt the use of any other kind of definition.
1423793;1457273557;*;nubbins` lols, makes masturbatory gesture
1423794;1457273561;nubbins`;do go on
1423795;1457273578;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: the very poverty consists in the sort of things i do to ~not~ live 'in the projects', with roommates a la nubbins`, or eat recycled food, etc.
1423796;1457273583;nubbins`;more realistic is that you're just fucking terrible with money
1423797;1457273601;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: it's better to be a light skinned house-boy than to work the fields...
1423798;1457273617;thestringpuller;you get to eat wholesome meals instead of chitlins
1423799;1457273634;nubbins`;besides, i've sworn off roommates.
1423800;1457273641;nubbins`;a temporary situation, no longer required
1423801;1457273646;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: i must wonder if you would still agree if you knew what i do to pay for the 'get to'.
1423802;1457273662;asciilifeform;nubbins`: iirc we had this thread. you paid off the house.
1423803;1457273671;nubbins`;no b'y
1423804;1457273675;nubbins`;$180k outstanding
1423805;1457273688;asciilifeform;srsly could've sworn nubbins` paid off a house...
1423806;1457273697;*;nubbins` shrugs
1423807;1457273698;nubbins`;P
1423808;1457273703;nubbins`;'s house is halfway there
1423809;1457273727;nubbins`;could blank out the mortgage tomorrow, but dat capital gains tax.
1423810;1457273730;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: slavery is slavery, however i must admit house niggas were treated better than the outdoor field niggas.
1423811;1457273796;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423732 << does nubbins` know how taxation works in usaschwitz ?
1423812;1457273796;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 14:01:07; nubbins`: alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?
1423813;1457273815;nubbins`;prob similar to how it works here in canadia
1423814;1457273848;asciilifeform;the way it works is that if i sold, e.g., 10k of coin, i get to give 4k to usg immediately.
1423815;1457273850;asciilifeform;fuck that.
1423816;1457273854;asciilifeform;i'd rather burn it.
1423817;1457273886;nubbins`;uhhh.
1423818;1457273899;nubbins`;40%?
1423819;1457273902;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: why do you not launder money as to avoid taxation?
1423820;1457273911;nubbins`;wait, btc is money in the USA, isn't it?
1423821;1457273913;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: could've sworn we had this thread.
1423822;1457273951;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: we have, but I think you overestimate the facilities required to execute such a plan...
1423823;1457273953;*;nubbins` would get to give 1k to revenue canada if liquidating 10k of coin
1423824;1457273971;asciilifeform;nubbins`: we have something called 'tax brackets' here.
1423825;1457273984;nubbins`;we do here too, and capital gains are taxed at 11% across the board
1423826;1457273995;asciilifeform;oh and if usg decides that you did not pay enough, you get charged double-triple post-facto.
1423827;1457274007;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: if your rent is can be paid by money order, you can take bag of benjies and buy multiple US postal mondey orders...
1423828;1457274019;thestringpuller;you can launder up to $1200 at a time no questions asked
1423829;1457274024;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: it is not.
1423830;1457274032;asciilifeform;it is paid in electronic insta-tax usd.
1423831;1457274035;asciilifeform;solely.
1423832;1457274043;*;nubbins` sighs
1423833;1457274048;*;thestringpuller sighs
1423834;1457274055;nubbins`;without actual dollar figures these arguments are absolute fucking wankery
1423835;1457274068;nubbins`;and smth tells me alf would find it vulgar to quantify these vagaries
1423836;1457274072;thestringpuller;should be making "free asciilifeform" t-shirts and protesting the white house
1423837;1457274087;asciilifeform;l0l you'd have to free the other 10 mil rapemeat caste folk.
1423838;1457274104;asciilifeform;there is nothing particular about asciilifeform.
1423839;1457274126;nubbins`;there's nothing particular about anyone, pre-action
1423840;1457274135;thestringpuller;you are a unique snowflake asciilifeform
1423841;1457274143;asciilifeform;where was mircea_popescu's forks photo
1423842;1457274162;nubbins`;nothing particular about cluny macpherson until he invented the gas mask
1423843;1457274176;asciilifeform;>> http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/basini-unique.jpg << here we go
1423844;1457274178;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhHYN )
1423845;1457274197;nubbins`;(born 1879 st. john's twodogland, natch)
1423846;1457274218;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423721 << can hear more about this plox ??
1423847;1457274218;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 13:56:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.
1423848;1457274240;asciilifeform;because i utterly don't get it
1423849;1457274260;asciilifeform;the conn rst thing is because we're talking to strangerz and using idiot unauthed plaintext.
1423850;1457274299;nubbins`;https://www.google.ca/maps/place/65+rennie's+mill+road/@47.5713426,-52.70955,3a,75y,251.39h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4HAkVDP7JL-X-LtA-3TypA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xe5ce28b603c71da!6m1!1e1
1423851;1457274300;assbot;Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhV25 )
1423852;1457274305;nubbins`;^ home of inventor of gas mask
1423853;1457274315;nubbins`;do a 180 and see the park where nubs plays frisbee and smokes dope
1423854;1457274317;asciilifeform;nubbins`: the venetians had gas masks.
1423855;1457274325;nubbins`;"modern" gas mask
1423856;1457274338;asciilifeform;ah
1423857;1457274341;asciilifeform;neato
1423858;1457274353;nubbins`;first general-issue mask for british troops
1423859;1457274383;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform think about it - decentralized, but no strangers ? how's this design supposed to even go ?
1423860;1457274428;asciilifeform;strangers when-there-is-room.
1423861;1457274436;asciilifeform;otherwise you talk to the other folks in your terror cell.
1423862;1457274442;asciilifeform;gossip.
1423863;1457274456;asciilifeform;(they - to theirs. etc)
1423864;1457274457;mircea_popescu;right. so now, internet overlord decides to rst all conns that are trying to move block-sized items back and forth.
1423865;1457274472;asciilifeform;how does he know you are moving block-sized item ?
1423866;1457274477;mircea_popescu;you can break bitcoin w/o breaking the internet, which is a problem.
1423867;1457274483;asciilifeform;all you have is a box spewing 512b packets at 100/sec.
1423868;1457274485;asciilifeform;forever.
1423869;1457274491;asciilifeform;or pick a number each hour.
1423870;1457274497;asciilifeform;this is 1960s tech.
1423871;1457274509;mircea_popescu;not currently made use of by teh bitcoin.
1423872;1457274517;asciilifeform;we don't even have a currently.
1423873;1457274522;mircea_popescu;lol point.
1423874;1457274526;asciilifeform;discussing hypothetical new pistol.
1423875;1457274536;mircea_popescu;so you want to have a proper meld here, gossipd-bitcoin
1423876;1457274550;asciilifeform;it is what i've been quietly laying out, yes.
1423877;1457274551;nubbins`;i'mma leave you guys to it
1423878;1457274554;asciilifeform;parachute.
1423879;1457274557;mircea_popescu;cheerios nubs.
1423880;1457274559;nubbins`;anyone else wants NSA tees for cost of shipping, send me a line
1423881;1457274580;asciilifeform;;;later tell nubbins` how many can i get for 1btc.
1423882;1457274580;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1423883;1457274603;mircea_popescu;if you get them in one package, should prolly be "all of them", ie a crate. esp if no hurry.
1423884;1457274627;asciilifeform;nubbins` packs well, it was a mondo crate last time
1423885;1457274637;mircea_popescu;he does yeah.
1423886;1457274652;*;mircea_popescu has no complaints at all re nubs subcontracting, aaa would hire again.
1423887;1457274658;*;asciilifeform same.
1423888;1457274730;shinohai;;;ticker --market all
1423889;1457274737;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 408.03, vol: 13949.55909627 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 408.982, vol: 7682.02106 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.92, vol: 42128.66710141 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 414.38523, vol: 62416.85380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 401.879, vol: 3457.6833331 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 395.964, vol: 256.64245295 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1423890;1457274792;shinohai;;;more
1423891;1457274792;gribble;410.26856075
1423892;1457274799;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform for your own peace of mind : i would ~definitely~ support a beedog coin, irrespective of how cartel mining impasse is resolved or the eventual fate of current-bitcoin.
1423893;1457274811;mircea_popescu;we needed a 2nd for a long time anyway, wtf is this ripple eth ltc doge bs.
1423894;1457274841;asciilifeform;afaik there was not yet, to date, a from-scratch thing
1423895;1457274855;asciilifeform;even as crackpottery
1423896;1457274874;asciilifeform;everybody had chunks of rotting satoshade in there.
1423897;1457274879;mircea_popescu;yup.
1423898;1457274904;mircea_popescu;and there is a very good vp on the table. gossip + proper hashes and ciphers + correct pow + proper relay/mine design + + +
1423899;1457274906;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ << well there was this, and then ATC failed around that time
1423900;1457274918;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller indeed.
1423901;1457274925;mircea_popescu;was a very instructive experiment.
1423902;1457274926;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: it was straight satoshi with new genesis iirc.
1423903;1457274929;mircea_popescu;yup.
1423904;1457274958;thestringpuller;for next experiment: remove satoshi and his dope from the equation completely
1423905;1457274958;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: what i was trying to say is that no one, afaik, has ever proposed and implemented entirely novel mechanism.
1423906;1457275041;asciilifeform;the one problem that i was not able to solve, now just as a decade ago when i started thinking about it, is 'initial allocation.' satoshi's solution, as can be seen now, was retarded.
1423907;1457275051;asciilifeform;but afaik there is not a plausible alternative.
1423908;1457275092;mircea_popescu;if mining works correctly (ie, as he naively intended it would) the initial allocation as designed is fine.
1423909;1457275131;mircea_popescu;i'll put some boxes to it as a seed, whosoever wants to do the same can do the same and it can take it from there.
1423910;1457275138;asciilifeform;well, he naively thought that nobody would throw $maxint at it.
1423911;1457275150;mircea_popescu;that was at no point the problem.
1423912;1457275162;mircea_popescu;bitcoin was fine, and would continue to be fine, as is, for any maxint.
1423913;1457275199;mircea_popescu;the weakness in the pow and the poor mining/relayer design created perverse incentives not directly apparent in the design phase, however.
1423914;1457275221;asciilifeform;this is so.
1423915;1457275235;asciilifeform;but the 51% thing was apparent from beginning, it was even in the paper.
1423916;1457275238;mircea_popescu;this is not a problem of scaling, even if it is a problem made apparent by scaling
1423917;1457275244;mircea_popescu;lettuce not blame the bearer of bad news.
1423918;1457275324;asciilifeform;did we ever do a thread on chiral miners ?
1423919;1457275329;thestringpuller;ah this makes me wanna finish my fictional story about plutonium coin
1423920;1457275351;mircea_popescu;!s chiral miners
1423921;1457275351;assbot;0 results for 'chiral miners' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chiral+miners
1423922;1457275358;thestringpuller;a coin which requires nuclear power plants worth of energy to mine single blocks
1423923;1457275359;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this being, where you have two or more types of miners, who have inherently opposed interests
1423924;1457275365;asciilifeform;perhaps we called it sexed miners
1423925;1457275367;asciilifeform;i forget.
1423926;1457275377;mircea_popescu;this is "pools under another name"
1423927;1457275385;asciilifeform;how's that
1423928;1457275405;mircea_popescu;ipso definition, individual women in any gendered species are in the pool of womanhood ; and respectively males.
1423929;1457275408;asciilifeform;do wolf and deer make pools ?
1423930;1457275421;asciilifeform;(i.e. come to agreement)
1423931;1457275438;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: alpha wolf kills all the other males and takes women for himself
1423932;1457275440;mircea_popescu;the chief problem of human society is pool collusion in this view.
1423933;1457275441;thestringpuller;or is that lions...
1423934;1457275475;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my notion was that bitcoin suffered from a ~game-theoretically~ poor design.
1423935;1457275486;asciilifeform;in that there was no built-in incentive for defecting from a miner cartel.
1423936;1457275491;mircea_popescu;males trying to get together to gangrape individual females ; females getting together trying to create wailer choruses to keep the male group at bay, everything we don't like about society reduces readily to "it's not made up of individuals", ie, poolmined.
1423937;1457275502;asciilifeform;precisely.
1423938;1457275507;asciilifeform;hence you need defection-incentive.
1423939;1457275518;mircea_popescu;this is nonsense. you needn't balance the desire of syphilis to defect from syphilisdom by injecting my with tb ffs.
1423940;1457275580;asciilifeform;picture that you were newcomen and built a cruddy steam engine.
1423941;1457275581;mircea_popescu;so yes, bitcoin does suffer from game theoretical poor design, but this problem specifically can not be resolved by "adding another bug somewhere else, they'll cancel out".
1423942;1457275583;asciilifeform;piston - came loose.
1423943;1457275589;asciilifeform;ergo, engine came to equilibrium.
1423944;1457275590;mircea_popescu;the problem is that margin-driven mining creates centralisation necessarily.
1423945;1457275593;asciilifeform;but you do not want equilibrium.
1423946;1457275601;asciilifeform;you want ~dynamic~ equilibrium.
1423947;1457275618;mircea_popescu;trust me, unlike you that doesn't play, i ~created~ a homeostatic game world.
1423948;1457275628;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not 'bug somewhere else', but a payoff matrix that doesn't equilibrate at 'herd'
1423949;1457275628;mircea_popescu;and i'm telling you, the solution to a broken knee is not to break an elbow.
1423950;1457275642;mircea_popescu;well you'll have to be a lot more detailed then
1423951;1457275659;asciilifeform;if had detail, we would be testing a proggy.
1423952;1457275662;asciilifeform;rather than thinking.
1423953;1457275677;asciilifeform;!s axelrod
1423954;1457275677;assbot;5 results for 'axelrod' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=axelrod
1423955;1457275697;mircea_popescu;lemme say that schelling points exist PRECISELY because ~irrational~ behaviour is an UNDEFEATABLE solution to your matrix.
1423956;1457275697;asciilifeform;!s prisoner's dilemma
1423957;1457275698;assbot;7 results for 'prisoner's dilemma' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=prisoner%27s+dilemma
1423958;1457275731;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is a 'solution' in the sense that there is no exact pill against it, but is -ev for the player.
1423959;1457275736;mircea_popescu;ie, humans have a very lengthy, selected ability to centralize against the possibility of a nice world.
1423960;1457275741;asciilifeform;(i know of no system where random moves are reliably +ev)
1423961;1457275755;mircea_popescu;you're kicking the can. -ev for the player +ev for the group, we're buiolding the soviets omfg fuckme
1423962;1457275767;asciilifeform;l0l!
1423963;1457275929;asciilifeform;anyway the original point stands, bitcoin had no fewer than ~3~ types of animal - miner, node, tx-er. and they were supposed to stay in racul, broasca si o stiuca
1423964;1457275957;asciilifeform;but did not.
1423965;1457276441;mircea_popescu;not so. bitcoin had 3 types of animal, minerS, nodes, owners. notwitstanding the very problematic weakness of nodes, the minerS unicellular molds merged in one major piece of dogvomit.
1423966;1457276466;asciilifeform;isn't that what i just said ?
1423967;1457276466;mircea_popescu;this is what most molds do under environmental stress - which is exactly what the environment was designed to do to them.
1423968;1457276479;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, not exactly what you said :)
1423969;1457276483;asciilifeform;l0l
1423970;1457276500;asciilifeform;or we can lift from a mircea_popescu article, 'Another aspect is that new blocks are mined by one group (miners) but have to be stored in perpetuity by another group (nodes). This creates a situation where X (users) pay Y (miners) to inconvenience Z (nodes), which is unsustainable not to mention sheer nonsense.'
1423971;1457276528;mircea_popescu;aha.
1423972;1457276579;mircea_popescu;purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ?
1423973;1457276591;asciilifeform;what does this question mean ?
1423974;1457276603;mircea_popescu;specifically what i mean - how about quantum money ? (yes sum X settled as Y in subgrapg S1, but as Z in subgraph S2. problem ?)
1423975;1457276623;asciilifeform;not only is it not a problem, but it is not escapable
1423976;1457276632;mircea_popescu;the [fundamentally centralzising] question of "tell me the one and only god-given truth as to ownership" dissolves in a cloud of acceptances.
1423977;1457276637;asciilifeform;^
1423978;1457276653;mircea_popescu;ie, THEY think i paid you 5 btc, but THOSE OTHERS see that same 5 btc going to him. and well.. it's just how it is.
1423979;1457276654;asciilifeform;see also http://kyristor.com
1423980;1457276656;assbot;kyristor ... ( http://bit.ly/1OnKvZl )
1423981;1457276674;mircea_popescu;this notion of money is disjunct enough from the commonly held to be scary.
1423982;1457276690;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00054575 = 10.9969 BTC [-] {2} 
1423983;1457276723;asciilifeform;the quantum spiked dildo eases in less painfully when you realize that the interfering electrons etc were ~always~ there under the newtoniana.
1423984;1457276750;mircea_popescu;i don't expect this realisation to be within common reach.
1423985;1457276765;mircea_popescu;"non-inflationary, non-traceable" suddenly means something very different.
1423986;1457276779;asciilifeform;how much 'common reach' today for electrodynamics ?
1423987;1457276795;asciilifeform;and money, as i stole from another mircea_popescu article, 'is a function of the forum'
1423988;1457276797;asciilifeform;which means...
1423989;1457276798;asciilifeform;this.
1423990;1457276815;mircea_popescu;why do i always run into people nuttier than myself ?
1423991;1457276837;mircea_popescu;you're supposed to be a stabilizing influence in my life, world! wtf is this!
1423992;1457276841;asciilifeform;l0lZ!
1423993;1457276861;asciilifeform;well for some reason you sent hanbot to turn over dumpsters in alleys and find'em. so here i am.
1423994;1457276951;mircea_popescu;so basically, forking is +ev for participants until everyone's on his own chain. how does anyone transact this assperger coin ?
1423995;1457276985;asciilifeform;it is +ev in the same sense as being hikikomori and starving to death is +ev.
1423996;1457276990;mircea_popescu;yup.
1423997;1457276993;asciilifeform;is it ?
1423998;1457276998;mircea_popescu;apparently.
1423999;1457277006;asciilifeform;for the folks for whom it is.
1424000;1457277011;mircea_popescu;from a "critique of pure reason" standpoint, it is.
1424001;1457277034;asciilifeform;fortunately the 'pure reason' folks are yet only a subset.
1424002;1457277051;asciilifeform;and there are still people who get out of the house, cut steel pipes, etc.
1424003;1457277058;mircea_popescu;so the option is "either create a money that drives a government, or else create a money that drives a crazy" ?
1424004;1457277096;asciilifeform;somethinglikethat.
1424005;1457277130;asciilifeform;what we have now is an ad-hoc (2), the exhaust heat from which drives (1).
1424006;1457277139;mircea_popescu;ok, take the nonsense practically : there's A, as illustrated yesterday, the group of six nude ladies ; there's B, b-a. i hope you folks aren't nude atm ?
1424007;1457277168;mircea_popescu;now - person X comes to me with a 5 BTC which he wants to spend on milk. B sees the 5 as valid ; A, as invalid. i know both A and B. does this mean i have to choose ?
1424008;1457277249;asciilifeform;manually?!
1424009;1457277255;mircea_popescu;huh ?
1424010;1457277259;asciilifeform;choose
1424011;1457277266;mircea_popescu;at all.
1424012;1457277300;mircea_popescu;not being a superposition of eigenstates myself, but a resolved one, i can't both credit and not credit the 5btc. would seem i have to choose one.
1424013;1457277362;asciilifeform;well, gotta cut into detail. why, in this universe, does b see the 5 as valid, and a as invalid ?
1424014;1457277383;asciilifeform;i.e. why do their ledgers differ to begin with ?
1424015;1457277386;mircea_popescu;because B mined on the basis of the chain that it saw ; and A idem. there's no guarantee these would stay coherent, and so they didn';t.
1424016;1457277394;mircea_popescu;now the chains are split.
1424017;1457277426;asciilifeform;so when they meet, they reconcile the ledgers. and if one or more of the parties refuses to, they now have to march off into parallel worlds.
1424018;1457277430;asciilifeform;and never transact.
1424019;1457277436;mircea_popescu;why would they ever meet ? they're not meeting. ask your pet.
1424020;1457277445;mircea_popescu;and why would they reconcile ever if they met ? have you seen nude women together before ?
1424021;1457277447;asciilifeform;sorta like what happens today when mircea_popescu meets somebody who disagrees with him re: what 2+2 equals.
1424022;1457277462;asciilifeform;by 'meet' i specifically mean 'have to agree on something'
1424023;1457277463;mircea_popescu;<mircea_popescu> purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ? <<  how about quantum money ?
1424024;1457277467;mircea_popescu;what did you think i meant ?
1424025;1457277472;asciilifeform;this.
1424026;1457277481;mircea_popescu;so why would it require they "agree" ?
1424027;1457277506;asciilifeform;well, if we're going full-bore, the transaction takes two matrices and yields a third.
1424028;1457277510;asciilifeform;rather than a scalar.
1424029;1457277528;mircea_popescu;i dunno about your or anyone else's experience, but i personally have spent my entire life to date in the company of people whose takes were fundamentally irreconcilable. ever since a wee tyke doing double time between the upper crups exclusive school and the criminal underworld.
1424030;1457277536;asciilifeform;aha!
1424031;1457277542;asciilifeform;and so now we have money for them.
1424032;1457277543;mircea_popescu;so then. what do i do with the 5btc ?
1424033;1457277580;asciilifeform;well, it's no longer 5btc scalar. it is now... [[5 0] [0 0]] or the like.
1424034;1457277593;mircea_popescu;and you can not specify the bytesize of this item.
1424035;1457277608;asciilifeform;can you specify bytesize of old btc tx ?
1424036;1457277616;mircea_popescu;up to 1mb.
1424037;1457277631;asciilifeform;and this also up to 1mb. if you like.
1424038;1457277643;asciilifeform;which limits the size of the world, but nobody asked for an infinite world.
1424039;1457277648;asciilifeform;(happily)
1424040;1457277656;mircea_popescu;(notwithstanding all the idiots who "read" the code - it is there, specified. de facto, irrespective of intention, and besides the guy's intentions scarcely either made sense or made it into practice.)
1424041;1457277664;asciilifeform;sure is.
1424042;1457277678;mircea_popescu;so you're going to bake in a magic number which is the largest number of groups that may ever exist in anyone's view
1424043;1457277686;mircea_popescu;or is it "in everyone's view" ?
1424044;1457277704;asciilifeform;this is avoidable.
1424045;1457277730;asciilifeform;there are files in existence larger than your hdd. this bothers you ?
1424046;1457277751;asciilifeform;it does not bother me. if i need to create or receive such a thing, i buy moar disk. or tell the other fella 'make smaller files'
1424047;1457277777;asciilifeform;it stands to reason that folks would have some incentive to collapse their coinmatrices to manageable size
1424048;1457277782;asciilifeform;by reconciling groups when possible.
1424049;1457277796;asciilifeform;and arbitrageurs would buy 'heavy' coin for 'light'.
1424050;1457277847;*;asciilifeform dislikes 'magic numberz'.
1424051;1457277852;mircea_popescu;perhaps. let us leave this very dark tunnel for now.
1424052;1457277899;*;asciilifeform off to meatspace, unpacking fig trees from their winter tarps, bbl.
1424053;1457277902;mircea_popescu;try another : every morning when i wake up now, i read the log. this, i like. if i were using your coin, every morning when i woke up, i would conceivably be greeted by a list of notifications : "group X has now split. in five. would you like to name the shards or ignore the shards, for each shard ?"
1424054;1457277916;asciilifeform;ok we'll do this one.
1424055;1457277931;asciilifeform;why would you ever do this ?
1424056;1457277951;asciilifeform;does your linux box tell you 'your inode xxxx has split, would you like to ....... ' ?
1424057;1457277965;mircea_popescu;because if biulbiul has an argument with fatme, i am still fucking both.
1424058;1457277986;asciilifeform;but now you can. all that happens is that the matrices grow by a few bit.
1424059;1457277992;mircea_popescu;;;search biulbiul fatme
1424060;1457277993;gribble;(search <word>) -- Searches for <word> in the current configuration variables.
1424061;1457277998;mircea_popescu;;;google biulbiul fatme
1424062;1457277999;gribble;No matches found.
1424063;1457278001;mircea_popescu;pff.
1424064;1457278015;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so i'd have to constantly see this.
1424065;1457278020;asciilifeform;ideally - never.
1424066;1457278025;mircea_popescu;pfff.
1424067;1457278033;mircea_popescu;what are you, satoshi ? plox no dumbo.
1424068;1457278059;asciilifeform;this is one of those things that will have to be built in a mechanical model, like maxwell's eq.
1424069;1457278064;asciilifeform;to be the least bit convincing.
1424070;1457278078;mircea_popescu;many questions remain, but the discussion has been interesting.
1424071;1457278095;asciilifeform;!s from:asciilifeform scalar
1424072;1457278096;assbot;14 results for 'from:asciilifeform scalar' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+scalar
1424073;1457278126;asciilifeform;we already established that ~trust~ is not, in any reasonable model, a scalar.
1424074;1457278131;asciilifeform;why should money be ?
1424075;1457278141;mircea_popescu;not a question of ought, a question of is.
1424076;1457278146;asciilifeform;well yes.
1424077;1457278156;mircea_popescu;money IS. whether it'll ever be what it ought or not - welll, that's what engineers are for.
1424078;1457278163;asciilifeform;why would we imagine (aside from our newtonian tunnel vision) that it ~is~ a scalar.
1424079;1457278165;asciilifeform;was my question.
1424080;1457278169;nubbins`;asciilifeform: indeed, you can get all of them and more for 1 btc.
1424081;1457278192;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because convention. why do i imagine putting girl on knees is humiliating ?
1424082;1457278199;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2014#456922 , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967475 , etc
1424083;1457278199;assbot;Logged on 24-01-2014 04:36:33; asciilifeform: eventually people's brains will grow and they will stop thinking of market value as a scalar.
1424084;1457278199;assbot;Logged on 07-01-2015 02:35:36; asciilifeform: the notion of 'trustworthiness' as a scalar is fundamental to scamatrons of all stripes.
1424085;1457278219;asciilifeform;and yes, convention. newton's laws also make fine convention. until they don't.
1424086;1457278227;mircea_popescu;still do for most applications.
1424087;1457278230;asciilifeform;aha.
1424088;1457278237;mircea_popescu;not a question to be handwaved away.
1424089;1457278241;asciilifeform;as i think anyone living outside africa knows
1424090;1457278281;asciilifeform;anyway bbl, there are trees.
1424091;1457278284;mircea_popescu;later.
1424092;1457279313;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00054754 = 10.5675 BTC [+] {2} 
1424093;1457279496;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11306 @ 0.00054518 = 6.1638 BTC [-] {3} 
1424094;1457279979;shinohai;prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/   (QT version anyway)
1424095;1457280689;mircea_popescu;this is good for bitcoin.
1424096;1457280838;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.0005441 = 13.5753 BTC [-] {3} 
1424097;1457281326;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12541 @ 0.00054323 = 6.8126 BTC [-] {4} 
1424098;1457283596;punkman;/me fixed toilet float with a toothpick
1424099;1457283623;punkman;I wonder wtf the last guy used to secure the float's lever because it must have dissolved
1424100;1457284742;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00054297 = 17.1036 BTC [-] {3} 
1424101;1457285980;oglafbot;http://oglaf.com/chamber/
1424102;1457285981;assbot;Chamber of Commerce ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXuZ6X )
1424103;1457286630;shinohai;Enjoyed the Qntra story spin too BingoBoingo
1424104;1457286661;BingoBoingo;shinohai: ty, but it's not spin. It is measured outrage.
1424105;1457286668;BingoBoingo;Seriously get a blog and practice.
1424106;1457286678;BingoBoingo;!up linton_s_dawson
1424107;1457287037;punkman;http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/ <<  "total network hashrate estimates around 1.2 TH/s" only two orders of magnitude off
1424108;1457287038;assbot;Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXxgPz )
1424109;1457287124;shinohai;I am slowly losing any interest in Bitcoin besides a medium for buying drugs.
1424110;1457287176;thestringpuller;why can't we just have nice things...
1424111;1457287183;shinohai;ikr
1424112;1457287327;BingoBoingo;BITBET NOT ALONE http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47975
1424113;1457287329;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )
1424114;1457287752;punkman;https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zRX5Wt4jHfA/VtUy3ieUilI/AAAAAAAAFcA/lOgxSl7orOo/s1600/0_table_29022016.png
1424115;1457287753;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4HJ0W )
1424116;1457287912;punkman;https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xtHFMtrXHRk/VtUzs6lRPKI/AAAAAAAAFcY/WFiZG4Ei9Rc/s1600/3_pcnetworkHeatmap2016-02-29.png
1424117;1457287914;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXzj60 )
1424118;1457288338;*;mod6 is finally caught up
1424119;1457288344;mod6;interesting discussion today
1424120;1457288605;thestringpuller;mod6: pm
1424121;1457289195;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.0005422 = 6.9944 BTC [-]
1424122;1457289247;mod6;<+shinohai> prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/   (QT version anyway) << i lel'd.
1424123;1457289415;*;BingoBoingo after much gnashing and wailing beginning to see remaining utility in BTC almost exclusively as bridge to what comes next
1424124;1457289521;BingoBoingo;Whether next thing be beedog coin or arse wallet coin
1424125;1457289583;mod6;i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
1424126;1457289620;BingoBoingo;It seems to look like name for discussing attributes of hypothetical actual Coin
1424127;1457289673;mod6;As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.
1424128;1457289719;mod6;I feel better about that.
1424129;1457289788;BingoBoingo;Seriously. The initial shock was unnerving, but then again what the fuck else had all the things qntra'd about added up to.
1424130;1457289949;BingoBoingo;Also exciting to se pogo dream may be resurrected.
1424131;1457290342;mod6;I like the idea of possibly incorporating gossip into the mix.
1424132;1457290735;*;BingoBoingo especially fond of potential to avoid getting locked into cpp-isms
1424133;1457290964;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00054354 = 11.4143 BTC [+]
1424134;1457291176;mod6;BingoBoingo: yah, this too
1424135;1457291221;BingoBoingo;V-ified from actual completely gavin-free origin
1424136;1457291269;BingoBoingo;So what if it takes 5-10 years to gain mass traction as opposed to the couple hours a hardfork crisis would resolve in
1424137;1457291671;mod6;Sure.
1424138;1457291725;BingoBoingo;brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream
1424139;1457291745;mod6;:]
1424140;1457291772;mod6;asciilifeform: did you ever mention a de-facto ADA book?
1424141;1457291992;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2015#1031708 << this?
1424142;1457291992;assbot;Logged on 24-02-2015 04:28:49; asciilifeform: just got 'ada 95: the language, reference manual, and standard libraries' ansi/iso/iec-8652:1995 in the post
1424143;1457292011;asciilifeform;mod6: the standard.
1424144;1457292029;mod6;hey thanks
1424145;1457292053;mod6;and as far as 'compilers', you suggest 'red dragon' as opposed to second edition 'purple dragon'?
1424146;1457292073;asciilifeform;ok to get the 2012 or earlier (but not 1983)
1424147;1457292075;*;mod6 mind-as-well round out the library
1424148;1457292087;asciilifeform;dragon or appel
1424149;1457292110;asciilifeform;i prefer dragon (red, with knight)
1424150;1457292120;mod6;ok cool, first edition then.
1424151;1457292217;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << iirc that would be... asciilifeform
1424152;1457292217;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
1424153;1457292328;asciilifeform;i forget why.
1424154;1457292340;asciilifeform;!s beedog
1424155;1457292341;assbot;3 results for 'beedog' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=beedog
1424156;1457292364;*;mod6 looks
1424157;1457292436;mod6;yah.
1424158;1457292444;shinohai;>.>
1424159;1457292652;thestringpuller;dragon book is a hard read...
1424160;1457293099;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00054376 = 5.6007 BTC [+]
1424161;1457293106;asciilifeform;i also considered standard-ml
1424162;1457293118;asciilifeform;instead of ada.
1424163;1457293389;mod6;any particular reason(s)?
1424164;1457293457;asciilifeform;in logz
1424165;1457293468;asciilifeform;!s standard ml
1424166;1457293468;assbot;3 results for 'standard ml' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=standard+ml
1424167;1457293599;*;mod6 reads
1424168;1457293688;asciilifeform;i like that there is more than one implementation
1424169;1457293709;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00054376 = 4.3501 BTC [+]
1424170;1457294136;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27708 @ 0.00054394 = 15.0715 BTC [+] {3} 
1424171;1457294194;mod6;now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.
1424172;1457295478;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00054478 = 20.8923 BTC [+] {2} 
1424173;1457295988;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b133
1424174;1457296027;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00054289 = 8.4419 BTC [-] {2} 
1424175;1457296035;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424171 << lol what could we do that we can't do here..?
1424176;1457296035;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 19:56:34; mod6: now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.
1424177;1457296070;asciilifeform;i suppose we could sync onetimepads.
1424178;1457296081;mod6;ah yeah this ^
1424179;1457296103;mod6;but would be cool just to meet and get around and discuss these things infront of a blackboard or whatever.
1424180;1457296108;mod6;i guess we can do all of this here.
1424181;1457296118;mod6;but something to be said for all of us in same room.
1424182;1457296160;*;asciilifeform was half-considering visiting mircea_popescu for tea one weekend, as he suggested last night 
1424183;1457296210;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32875 @ 0.00054289 = 17.8475 BTC [-]
1424184;1457296217;mod6;ya, saw that and was thinking the same
1424185;1457296237;asciilifeform;mod6: actually i admit that ~all of us~ in same room always made me a bit uneasy.
1424186;1457296246;asciilifeform;phat target.
1424187;1457296249;mircea_popescu;yeah, not exactly wise.
1424188;1457296274;mod6;fair enough.
1424189;1457296290;asciilifeform;various outfits - e.g. intel - forbid it to key folks.
1424190;1457296307;asciilifeform;even usg used to have such a custom.
1424191;1457296595;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << bee-dog was originally a joke re very summary vision (because bees see large pixels and dogs don't see colors). see : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-02-2016#1413916
1424192;1457296595;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
1424193;1457296595;assbot;Logged on 24-02-2016 04:23:11; mircea_popescu: omfg alf sees the world like a bee-dog : in black and white and all pixelated.
1424194;1457296605;mircea_popescu;somehow it became a term of endearment for alf and especially alfisms.
1424195;1457296660;mod6;ah
1424196;1457296663;mod6;thx
1424197;1457296696;mircea_popescu;the joke being of course that any serious designer is exactly a bee-dog.
1424198;1457296759;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12483 @ 0.0005422 = 6.7683 BTC [-] {2} 
1424199;1457296771;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424127 << this would be correct.
1424200;1457296771;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 18:41:13; mod6: As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.
1424201;1457296826;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424138 << yeah but learn a good programming.
1424202;1457296826;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 19:15:25; BingoBoingo: brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream
1424203;1457297143;mircea_popescu;anyway, the weather in b-a fixed itself, tis very pleasant, the steaks still here, by all means.
1424204;1457297204;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i must confess i don't get the latest qntra. wut ?
1424205;1457297263;BingoBoingo;Entering into the record the end of pretending US minor socialist party is a thing.
1424206;1457297276;mircea_popescu;but i mean.. what shooting ? what ?
1424207;1457297288;BingoBoingo;shooting?
1424208;1457297326;BingoBoingo;Oh 2nd most recent, the san bernadino ISIS derps
1424209;1457297332;mircea_popescu;http://qntra.net/2016/03/frontier-county-prosecutor-alleges-circle-jerk-iphone-carries-cyber-pathogens/
1424210;1457297333;assbot;Frontier County Prosecutor Alleges Circle Jerk iPhone Carries "Cyber Pathogens" | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1YjCjQ7 )
1424211;1457297356;BingoBoingo;mundane case of guy and his wife shooting up their workplace
1424212;1457297418;mircea_popescu;oh
1424213;1457297419;BingoBoingo;Why be another allah snackbar weather event when one has a plague to spread is the point?
1424214;1457297428;mircea_popescu;kinda bizarre.
1424215;1457297442;BingoBoingo;California, bizarre by definition
1424216;1457297585;BingoBoingo;Supposedly they are getting a 100 inches of snow soon. Can't fall into the ocean soon enough
1424217;1457297916;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423705 << not all can bee-dog like the pros!
1424218;1457297916;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 13:47:13; nubbins`: but this may be a failing on my part
1424219;1457298405;mircea_popescu;and in other bitcoin news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/17e2293db4434f81bc5aa68d643c8c85/tumblr_mgs749gbFs1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1424220;1457298406;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC2dzC )
1424221;1457299177;asciilifeform;!s yoga master
1424222;1457299178;assbot;1 results for 'yoga master' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yoga+master
1424223;1457299194;mircea_popescu;aha
1424224;1457299208;asciilifeform;'gotta start small!111'
1424225;1457299776;nubbins`;asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered
1424226;1457300046;punkman;https://forum.transmissionbt.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17834
1424227;1457300049;assbot;OSX.KeRanger.A malware in 2.90? - Transmission ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5AXa )
1424228;1457300053;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16126 @ 0.00054229 = 8.745 BTC [+]
1424229;1457300122;punkman;http://researchcenter.paloaltonetworks.com/2016/03/new-os-x-ransomware-keranger-infected-transmission-bittorrent-client-installer/
1424230;1457300122;assbot;New OS X Ransomware KeRanger Infected Transmission BitTorrent Client Installer - Palo Alto Networks BlogPalo Alto Networks Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5HCf )
1424231;1457300178;nubbins`;lule
1424232;1457300236;nubbins`;that's up there with linux mint serving up bogus ISOs
1424233;1457300303;nubbins`;"The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."
1424234;1457300433;nubbins`;certificate was from this company: http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=47015181
1424235;1457300433;assbot;Polisan Boya San. ve Tic. A.S.: Private Company Information - Businessweek ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC6iUo )
1424236;1457300508;nubbins`;which prob had a developer account for pushing bespoke apps to company handsets
1424237;1457301190;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424225 << ty  nubbins` , will do when i get home
1424238;1457301190;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 21:29:36; nubbins`: asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered
1424239;1457301276;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd.
1424240;1457301276;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 21:38:23; nubbins`: "The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."
1424241;1457301616;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423761 << nubbins` will be pleased to learn that this is pet's favourite 'ever' thing from the logz.
1424242;1457301616;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 14:06:31; nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg
1424243;1457301883;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14599 @ 0.00054221 = 7.9157 BTC [-] {3} 
1424244;1457302493;ben_vulpes;http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116719 << sig(digest, pkey). this does nothing for the transacting protocol, but ensures that the device that mined a block /also/ has the privkey for the block subsidy.
1424245;1457302494;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYjVgd )
1424246;1457303059;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd. << indeed
1424247;1457303072;*;nubbins` was "ios developer" for short stint, earned a free ipad from sales of app
1424248;1457303500;nubbins`;!up CrazyTruthYakDDS
1424249;1457303672;nubbins`;wow, i've been an ebay member since 1999
1424250;1457304058;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142879.msg14088674#msg14088674
1424251;1457304060;assbot;KLYEMAX T-Shirt Fundraiser ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvB2jG )
1424252;1457304088;nubbins`;"really proud of klye for [selling t-shirts calling himself a fuckup in an attempt to recoup blistering losses from an earlier scam]"
1424253;1457304100;nubbins`;fuck this planet
1424254;1457304994;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.0005433 = 21.895 BTC [+] {4} 
1424255;1457305055;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00054211 = 19.4617 BTC [-] {4} 
1424256;1457305574;deedbot-;[Qntra] Ransomware Comes To OSX Bittorrent Client - http://qntra.net/2016/03/ransomware-comes-to-osx-bittorrent-client/
1424257;1457307739;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11704 @ 0.0005439 = 6.3658 BTC [+] {2} 
1424258;1457308593;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32608 @ 0.00054531 = 17.7815 BTC [+]
1424259;1457309081;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84475 @ 0.00054571 = 46.0989 BTC [+] {2} 
1424260;1457311216;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00054572 = 21.8288 BTC [+]
1424261;1457311476;thestringpuller;"Using 21's bitnodes service, we determined that 1037 classic nodes are hosted using Amazon's AWS. "
1424262;1457311507;mircea_popescu;the two buck bitcoin fork.,
1424263;1457311543;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.
1424264;1457311545;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p0RO2U )
1424265;1457311550;mircea_popescu;check it out - someone is using lisp for something!
1424266;1457312070;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40114 @ 0.0005453 = 21.8742 BTC [-] {2} 
1424267;1457313168;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00054519 = 23.0615 BTC [-]
1424268;1457314225;deedbot-;[Trilema] The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/
1424269;1457314327;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00054299 = 22.154 BTC [-] {2} 
1424270;1457314571;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.0005421 = 37.5133 BTC [-] {4} 
1424271;1457314884;jurov;TIL eulora reached homeostasis? LOL
1424272;1457315333;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424263 << looks neato
1424273;1457315333;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 00:45:43; mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.
1424274;1457315354;asciilifeform;but i have nfi what it does...
1424275;1457315608;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.0005421 = 15.233 BTC [-] {3} 
1424276;1457315695;jurov;it sometimes crashes, of course :D
1424277;1457315737;jurov;but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?
1424278;1457315758;jurov;that would be some bedrock
1424279;1457315893;jurov;because on C mechine, succumbing to various kinds of magic colored pointer unions is practical necessity.. so ada type safety should help
1424280;1457316233;jurov;!up p15
1424281;1457316897;nubbins`;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 <<  FTR i thought this was obv the case upon reading the article and was baffled as to why it took so long for someone to mention.
1424282;1457316899;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
1424283;1457317031;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.85477620 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b134
1424284;1457317337;nubbins`;<mircea_popescu> does this come with an absolute guarantee that i am not responsible for anything past raw tx, and if it never gets included, bettor is out the money, because i will not under any circumstances repay it ? <<  lel better not stick with 0-fee tx if you're gonna go that route.
1424285;1457317399;nubbins`;"bitbet, where payouts are literally the lowest priority"
1424286;1457317511;nubbins`;"bitbet, where we don't have nine cents to spare"
1424287;1457317538;nubbins`;whoever constructed A1 should be relieved of their duties
1424288;1457317587;danielpbarron;fee is not required if inputs are sufficiently old enough, which in this case they appear to have been
1424289;1457317694;nubbins`;sure, if the mempool hadn't been olympic sized
1424290;1457317708;nubbins`;nexus pass is not required if there's no lineup at the airport
1424291;1457317743;nubbins`;still gotta fight through the crowds to get to the gate
1424292;1457317775;nubbins`;if you're traveling on xmas
1424293;1457317790;danielpbarron;i guess this falls into the "well what the heck is the protocol, oh right there isn't one" category. How do you know a miner will choose a high fee tx over a high priority tx?
1424294;1457317857;nubbins`;you know after the fact, it turns out
1424295;1457317866;jurov;cuz satoshi coded it so?
1424296;1457317875;jurov;and miners haven't touched it?
1424297;1457317886;jurov;is that tooo far fetched notion?
1424298;1457317901;nubbins`;if there's only so much space in a block for 0-fee tx's, and the mempool is overflowing, obviously it's gonna take days for your 0-fee tx to get put into a block, even if everyone knows about it
1424299;1457317930;nubbins`;and since it's in the queue, you can make as many As as you like
1424300;1457317933;nubbins`;Aoo, even
1424301;1457317955;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116722
1424302;1457317957;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYAbOv )
1424303;1457317957;nubbins`;all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats
1424304;1457318258;jurov;!t m x.eur
1424305;1457318258;assbot;[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00256252 / 0.00259952 / 0.00262899 (553 shares, 1.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259055 / 0.00262899 (1903 shares, 4.93 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)
1424306;1457318272;nubbins`;a 0-fee tx during a mempool flood is like expecting to hitch a free ride from turkey to macedonia
1424307;1457318285;jurov;;;calc 1/0.00370358
1424308;1457318285;gribble;270.009018301
1424309;1457318308;jurov;whotf puts these asks on x.eur
1424310;1457318412;danielpbarron;i don't see how a "mempool flood" should effect a high priority transaction.. or was the flooder sophisticated enough to have created all the inputs long ago so that they too would be high priority?
1424311;1457318435;jurov;mkay, flipped. this ersatz marketmaking is quite ejoyable
1424312;1457318483;nubbins`;listen, i'm a high priority customer at Mr. Rooter
1424313;1457318500;nubbins`;but if three other high priority taco lovers clog their toilets first, i'm waiting in line
1424314;1457318508;jurov;<ad break>You could have got x.eur from me with only 2% fee over vwap and flipped them at these insane prices!</ad>
1424315;1457318577;danielpbarron;jurov, how to do that? ask you here?
1424316;1457318598;jurov;i am accepting transferwise
1424317;1457318607;danielpbarron;ah actual euros
1424318;1457318608;jurov;for wot members
1424319;1457318628;jurov;yes, send me 102 euros, get 100 x.eur
1424320;1457318632;danielpbarron;well it's pretty obvious to me what caused the insane prices. "divestment"
1424321;1457318654;nubbins`;or, y'know, a cartel blowing their cover by fucking with bitbet payouts.
1424322;1457318659;nubbins`;SEEMS JUST AS LIKELY.
1424323;1457318661;danielpbarron;not people who want euros, so much as they ~don't want~ bitcoin, and don't want to touch actual fiat
1424324;1457318692;jurov;lmao. but they could have pestered davout to get much better price from his bot instead
1424325;1457318701;nubbins`;i feel bad carrying on but this is seriously the highest lelevator i've ever been in
1424326;1457318743;nubbins`;i cannot see the ground!
1424327;1457318756;mircea_popescu;nubbins`> http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 <<  FTR i thought this was obv the case << because it's neither obvious nor the case.
1424328;1457318757;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
1424329;1457318774;nubbins`;how ya figure, because the logic doesn't follow
1424330;1457318792;nubbins`;("you don't get to say what the logic is! &c")
1424331;1457318805;mircea_popescu;but congrats on being the nth lazy thinker who has a simple theory in his head, cut ~80% of the facts or so that fit it, and is ready to reddit about the matter.
1424332;1457318812;mircea_popescu;i'm sure it'll bring greatness to canada or w/e.
1424333;1457318866;nubbins`;you're sniffing glue if you think a cartel withholding bitbet payouts is the simplest explanation
1424334;1457318910;mircea_popescu;nubbins`> all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats << except the part where these nodes would also advertise it, which they didn't do. and except for the part where nodes that keep txn forever are am yth. and except for anything actually to do with reality, as opposed to some cartoon someone saw last year on tedspeak or w/e.
1424335;1457318935;mircea_popescu;nubbins` we had this thread. make your own theory, CROSSING ALL THE POINTS.
1424336;1457318945;nubbins`;advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
1424337;1457318953;mircea_popescu;as opposed to "here is what i opine - i know all about huffing glue because, practically speaking, it's what i do all day".
1424338;1457318959;nubbins`;accepting but not advertising them -- isn't
1424339;1457318979;mircea_popescu;w/e.
1424340;1457318989;nubbins`;and nodes don't have to keep tx's "forever", we're talking two days max between rebroadcasts.
1424341;1457318990;mircea_popescu;the facts are there, write your explanation for them and spare me.
1424342;1457319000;mircea_popescu;we're talking about ~8 days.
1424343;1457319014;nubbins`;yes, 4 tx's over 8 days
1424344;1457319026;nubbins`;;;calc 8/4
1424345;1457319026;gribble;2
1424346;1457319029;nubbins`;^
1424347;1457319039;mircea_popescu;so a1 blocked a2, then a2 blocked a3 then a3 blocked a4 ?
1424348;1457319043;nubbins`;haha
1424349;1457319044;nubbins`;jesus
1424350;1457319045;nubbins`;no.
1424351;1457319055;nubbins`;use your reading comprehension skills
1424352;1457319058;mircea_popescu;so a1 blocked a2, 3 and 4 because it sat in pool for 8 days because reasons ?
1424353;1457319059;nubbins`;a1 blocked a2
1424354;1457319062;nubbins`;then a1 blocked a3
1424355;1457319067;nubbins`;then a1 blocked a4
1424356;1457319075;mircea_popescu;because a1 was still around 4 days later ? whyssat ?
1424357;1457319126;nubbins`;because there was a lineup for the cheap seats because of the mempool flood
1424358;1457319131;mircea_popescu;...
1424359;1457319139;mircea_popescu;that made no sense. try again using meaningful words this time.
1424360;1457319144;nubbins`;no
1424361;1457319147;nubbins`;you try again
1424362;1457319149;mircea_popescu;right.
1424363;1457319156;nubbins`;like talking to a bag of hammers
1424364;1457319188;mircea_popescu;apparently the way the internet works [according to idiots] is that one guy that knows about things by virtue of being one of the guys that actually do things describes some facts, and is now obliged to entertain the half-baked idiocy of any random opiner.
1424365;1457319197;nubbins`;^ stopped reading after "according"
1424366;1457319203;mircea_popescu;whatever. keep your ideas, i don't want them nor do they carry any value.
1424367;1457319218;nubbins`;do you suppose maybe there were other 0-fee high priority transactions floating around at that time? hmm? check out a graph of the mempool size
1424368;1457319248;mircea_popescu;dude... seriously, stick to printing or w/e it is you understand.
1424369;1457319283;nubbins`;i like how when you run out of logical rebuttals it's all "dude" and "srsly, just w/e"
1424370;1457319299;nubbins`;try another one!
1424371;1457319336;mircea_popescu;there's no "logical rebuttal". you have some facts, go write a theory. maybe i'll bother reading it. seeing who it comes from, probably not. that's all.
1424372;1457319347;nubbins`;"no, you don't get it, MY zero-fee transaction should have taken priority because reasons"
1424373;1457319360;nubbins`;lel, "go write a theory"
1424374;1457319364;nubbins`;sturles wrote it
1424375;1457319378;nubbins`;i tried putting it in simplified english for you, but it didn't take
1424376;1457319395;nubbins`;no big surprise
1424377;1457319513;nubbins`;or, y'know, bitcoin is dead because a chinese mining cartel is selectively blocking BITBET PAYOUTS.
1424378;1457319517;nubbins`;occam weeps
1424379;1457319525;nubbins`;bbl i need a drink
1424380;1457319557;mircea_popescu;sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
1424381;1457319691;mircea_popescu;!rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
1424382;1457319691;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/b8271fc2324071f8
1424383;1457319711;mircea_popescu;!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.nubbins`.-1:2f86f1e0d27e296c65d393c3735b6596cc002265d63e3fc387f97968b5b46f24
1424384;1457319713;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
1424385;1457319768;mircea_popescu;you'll be on my ignore list. if you actually have something to say find a lord to play telephone, but ideally spare me.
1424386;1457319939;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054113 = 18.0196 BTC [-] {3} 
1424387;1457319955;jurov;that escalated quickly
1424388;1457319997;mircea_popescu;if i wanted to talk to redditards i'd make a reddit account.
1424389;1457320224;nubbins`;lel
1424390;1457320231;nubbins`;behold your king!
1424391;1457320249;jurov;So, w're back to mp and alf being 80% i guess.
1424392;1457320265;nubbins`;sorry guys, anyone who thinks MP's explanation makes more sense needs their head checked at a trauma hospital
1424393;1457320292;mircea_popescu;plenty o' room for idea guys all over the webs.
1424394;1457320311;nubbins`;seems pretty obvious that in a huge backlog of transactions, one of them is going to be the lowest priority
1424395;1457320355;nubbins`;aaaand ftr i meant what i said about being relieved of duties, imagine sending a 17btc tx out into the wild and then /sending the same amount of money again from a different address/
1424396;1457320379;nubbins`;if ever there was an indication that mp stopped giving a fuck about anything but spending the usd he cashed his btc out into, this is it
1424397;1457320415;nubbins`;anyway. peace. asciilifeform feel free to leave your particulars with gribble for me
1424398;1457320707;mircea_popescu;in more practical news - jurov here's one for you. https://bitbet.us/bet/1247/parties-smer-sd-and-sns-to-win-supermajority-in/ is to be resolved. problem is the res source gives vote % and not a word re seats, and the bet is re seats.
1424399;1457320707;assbot;BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.87 B (38%) on Yes, 1.42 B (62%) on No | closed 3 days 3 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweIc2 )
1424400;1457320746;mircea_popescu;is there a good source to document how you convert from these ?
1424401;1457320793;jurov;doh, they are incredibly slow.. there is "allocation of seats" link but they have not done it yet.
1424402;1457320802;mircea_popescu;alrighty. so then it waits.
1424403;1457320806;mircea_popescu;not to even speak of https://bitbet.us/bet/1185/mariano-rajoy-to-remain-pm-of-spain-after/
1424404;1457320807;assbot;BitBet - Mariano Rajoy to remain PM of Spain after December Election :: 0.21 B (78%) on Yes, 0.06 B (22%) on No | closed 2 months 3 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweQIw )
1424405;1457320824;mircea_popescu;believe it or not IN FUCKING MARCH the spanyards do not yet rightly know whether that fucktard won or not the december election.
1424406;1457320880;*;trinque settles in to catch up on a weekend of l0gz
1424407;1457320951;jurov;trinque: prepare several buckets of popcorn
1424408;1457320994;BingoBoingo;and gnashing and wailing, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. Also  touch of denial mixed in.
1424409;1457322501;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00054054 = 12.054 BTC [-] {3} 
1424410;1457322562;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35351 @ 0.00054005 = 19.0913 BTC [-] {4} 
1424411;1457322584;jurov;mircea_popescu: to mpex pls
1424412;1457328235;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00054332 = 15.3216 BTC [+] {2} 
1424413;1457329394;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.0005396 = 8.6336 BTC [-] {4} 
1424414;1457329760;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00053958 = 6.367 BTC [-] {2} 
1424415;1457329821;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22780 @ 0.00053958 = 12.2916 BTC [-]
1424416;1457329882;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.0005387 = 10.9625 BTC [-] {4} 
1424417;1457330004;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39753 @ 0.00053843 = 21.4042 BTC [-] {3} 
1424418;1457330065;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44948 @ 0.00053743 = 24.1564 BTC [-] {2} 
1424419;1457330248;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00053734 = 12.2395 BTC [-] {3} 
1424420;1457331956;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00054122 = 20.5664 BTC [+] {2} 
1424421;1457332139;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.00054285 = 22.5283 BTC [+] {2} 
1424422;1457332628;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4143 @ 0.00054122 = 2.2423 BTC [-]
1424423;1457333970;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22863 @ 0.00053687 = 12.2745 BTC [-] {3} 
1424424;1457334396;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27522 @ 0.00053685 = 14.7752 BTC [-] {3} 
1424425;1457335189;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00053673 = 17.068 BTC [-] {4} 
1424426;1457335616;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18435 @ 0.0005363 = 9.8867 BTC [-] {2} 
1424427;1457335677;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21065 @ 0.00053618 = 11.2946 BTC [-] {2} 
1424428;1457336836;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00053576 = 10.5545 BTC [-] {4} 
1424429;1457337873;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00053646 = 10.1391 BTC [+]
1424430;1457338544;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.0005357 = 8.6516 BTC [-] {4} 
1424431;1457341289;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57254 @ 0.00053547 = 30.6578 BTC [-] {2} 
1424432;1457343912;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00053668 = 17.7909 BTC [+] {2} 
1424433;1457344095;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44200 @ 0.00053547 = 23.6678 BTC [-]
1424434;1457344278;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54877 @ 0.00053544 = 29.3833 BTC [-] {2} 
1424435;1457344644;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.000537 = 14.6601 BTC [+]
1424436;1457345782;punkman;"You are using GnuPG version 1.4.12, which is not supported anymore. Enigmail requires GnuPG version 2.0.7 or newer. Please upgrade your GnuPG installation, or Enigmail will not work"
1424437;1457345804;punkman;not like I used it anyway but annoying
1424438;1457347883;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b136
1424439;1457351232;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.0005346 = 30.793 BTC [-] {4} 
1424440;1457351293;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00053427 = 12.1279 BTC [-] {2} 
1424441;1457352330;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52257 @ 0.00053565 = 27.9915 BTC [+]
1424442;1457352563;nubbins`;morning folks
1424443;1457352584;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380 << against better judgment, i figured i'd go back and re-read sturles' conversation just in case i'd missed something
1424444;1457352584;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
1424445;1457352604;nubbins`;all i see is mp and alf complaining loudly that sturles' node shouldn't work the way it does because it's improper
1424446;1457352616;nubbins`;but, of course, it does
1424447;1457352657;nubbins`;if that's a "theory falling apart", i'd like to see you guys take on gravity, or germ theory
1424448;1457352675;nubbins`;"little tiny bugs shouldn't be able to hurt a hyooman!"
1424449;1457352860;nubbins`;!rate mircea_popescu -1 tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
1424450;1457352860;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f72bd9d5b92dba3d
1424451;1457352901;nubbins`;!v assbot:nubbins`.rate.mircea_popescu.-1:c4b87f050b85b49aada6a81e8e32c6367bd53b43f88ada62c95a94b10e8e417d
1424452;1457352901;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 2 to -1 with note: tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
1424453;1457353001;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46350 @ 0.00053421 = 24.7606 BTC [-] {2} 
1424454;1457353611;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62443 @ 0.00053565 = 33.4476 BTC [+]
1424455;1457353916;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8999 @ 0.00053609 = 4.8243 BTC [+]
1424456;1457354770;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00053791 = 30.4457 BTC [+] {4} 
1424457;1457354921;shinohai;;;ticker --market all
1424458;1457354933;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 5166.35971885 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.934, vol: 7021.9455 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 13974.58828093 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 408.0, vol: 1.20992211 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.4288, vol: 52510.01710000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 408.494, vol: 1300.31356398 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 410.81265, vol: 235.90882398 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1424459;1457354944;shinohai;;;more
1424460;1457354944;gribble;416.52671852
1424461;1457355071;nubbins`;weird that the chinese mining cartel revealing themselves hasn't affected the exchange rate
1424462;1457355081;nubbins`;you'd think it'd be a big deal
1424463;1457355136;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21620 @ 0.00053609 = 11.5903 BTC [-] {2} 
1424464;1457355380;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00053609 = 3.699 BTC [-]
1424465;1457355647;nubbins`;maybe the market got confused and accidentally dumped 500btc worth of MPOE over the last 24 hours instead of dumping all their btc
1424466;1457355807;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33495 @ 0.00053609 = 17.9563 BTC [-]
1424467;1457356661;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.0005392 = 2.5882 BTC [+] {2} 
1424468;1457356908;danielpbarron;nubbins`, it looks like you're the one throwing a tantrum, and it "shouldn't work that way" is the general complaint in here against bitcoin for some time now. this event was more like the last straw kinda thing
1424469;1457357032;nubbins`;nah, just making quips
1424470;1457357054;nubbins`;and "shouldn't work that way" does not mean the same thing as "did not happen"
1424471;1457357078;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
1424472;1457357078;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
1424473;1457357086;nubbins`;^ did it, though? feel free to link.
1424474;1457357099;kakobrekla;i dont think it did.
1424475;1457357109;nubbins`;that's because it didn't
1424476;1457357121;nubbins`;but mp hears what he wants
1424477;1457357256;nubbins`;in fact, no rebuttal to sturles' explanation was offered -- just a lot of gnashing about "but that's crazy!"
1424478;1457357332;assbot;[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 396 @ 0.00271748 = 1.0761 BTC [-] {2} 
1424479;1457357494;*;nubbins` is a bit surprised that more lords aren't concerned about mp's shame leading him to proposing an altcoin as the way forward
1424480;1457357551;danielpbarron;i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it
1424481;1457357626;danielpbarron;it's not like the code is something wonderful to behold. The only thing it had going for it was that some important people found a use in it for a time
1424482;1457357634;shinohai;Not a lord here, but I have a lot of time invested in trb and I agree with danielpbarron.
1424483;1457357678;shinohai;Eventually one has to stop building with legos and mve on to more robust materials.
1424484;1457357686;nubbins`;if mp no longer finds a use for btc, i'm eagerly awaiting the liquidation of all mpex assets
1424485;1457357731;nubbins`;danielpbarron if your interest in a subject is predicated on who else is interested in it, then i have no sensible response
1424486;1457357752;kakobrekla;actually this somewhat fixes "bitcoin is too accessible" as the requirements to include tx in a block are having your own block producing setup
1424487;1457357794;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block.
1424488;1457357820;kakobrekla;obv its not accessible to me!
1424489;1457357828;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
1424490;1457357828;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
1424491;1457357837;nubbins`;asciilifeform care to offer an opinion on ^
1424492;1457357881;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00053591 = 17.2295 BTC [-] {4} 
1424493;1457357928;nubbins`;kako and i seem to agree that nothing about sturles' theory "fell apart upon examination", although we'd both be eager to hear your thoughts on the topic
1424494;1457357944;nubbins`;bbl coffee/breakfast
1424495;1457357953;asciilifeform;nubbins`: the point re: mpex is valid imho.
1424496;1457357978;nubbins`;asciilifeform first things first, sturles' theory: fell apart upon examination or no?
1424497;1457358011;asciilifeform;it did not explain mircea_popescu's observations though
1424498;1457358035;asciilifeform;gotta explain the resurrected tx, no?
1424499;1457358073;asciilifeform;i saw same thing when sending a lee sedol bet a few wks ago
1424500;1457358116;punkman;gotta explain why the 0fee tx wasn't visible in anyone's mempool for days, although I don't know how exactly mp examined the mempools and of which nodes he was connecting to
1424501;1457358117;shinohai;Also has been seen by outside source according to: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47975
1424502;1457358118;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )
1424503;1457358122;asciilifeform;(and here was even the high-S thing also involved)
1424504;1457358139;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424336
1424505;1457358139;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 02:49:05; nubbins`: advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
1424506;1457358140;punkman;the fact it was resurrected is not surprising if you ask me
1424507;1457358156;nubbins`;my node wouldn't have broadcast A1 until the backlog subsided
1424508;1457358172;nubbins`;i'll broadcast 0-fee tx's when it suits me, not the other way around
1424509;1457358173;asciilifeform;punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel
1424510;1457358194;asciilifeform;punkman: i have nfi , ask him when he wakes up
1424511;1457358194;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel << seems his intel connected him to a shit set of nodes
1424512;1457358224;asciilifeform;!s reactor test
1424513;1457358225;assbot;2 results for 'reactor test' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=reactor+test
1424514;1457358248;asciilifeform;^ see above.
1424515;1457358359;punkman;anyway if someone can replicate the experiment with similarly old coins, that would not favor the bitbet-screwed-by-miners theory
1424516;1457358411;nubbins`;i could, as i've got an enormous amount of coins that haven't moved in a very long time
1424517;1457358430;nubbins`;but i have extremely low incentive to help mp exorcise his ghosts
1424518;1457358458;nubbins`;shinohai re: the link you posted
1424519;1457358466;nubbins`;how'd the mempool look when that guy's tx was sent out?
1424520;1457358468;nubbins`;homework for ya
1424521;1457358506;jurov;i can offer coinbr users' coins for the experiments... seems using users' funds is en vogue
1424522;1457358514;nubbins`;lel
1424523;1457358523;asciilifeform;one more thing. careful readers of the logz will have noticed that the cn miners have openly admitted collusion
1424524;1457358547;asciilifeform;i.e. gatherings for whatever purpose
1424525;1457358569;nubbins`;asciilifeform do note that collusion on tx relay nodes in the form of "don't broadcast 0-fee tx's if the mempool is > x" would explain observed behaviour
1424526;1457358595;asciilifeform;all but the resurrection
1424527;1457358600;nubbins`;obviously ant/f2 have node farms as well as mining farms
1424528;1457358623;nubbins`;if there was 60 live nodes last year, it seems extremely improbable that a mining cartel wouldn't rent out a data center and stuff it with nodes
1424529;1457358648;nubbins`;once that's in place, whatever rules they set are essentially universal
1424530;1457358653;asciilifeform;this was one of mp's accusations actually
1424531;1457358656;nubbins`;right.
1424532;1457358669;nubbins`;but that's not "deliberately withholding bitbet's tx"
1424533;1457358679;nubbins`;that's "withholding all 0-fee tx's during a backlog"
1424534;1457358691;nubbins`;which is not retarded
1424535;1457358701;asciilifeform;no?!
1424536;1457358716;nubbins`;if ant/f2 own 500 nodes out of an available 560, how in the fuck are you gonna see a transaction that they're not broadcasting?
1424537;1457358730;nubbins`;ESPECIALLY if you're only connected to your favourite whitelisted nodes?
1424538;1457358745;asciilifeform;that was his point, no? that the scum took over.
1424539;1457358764;nubbins`;do you have any idea how many 0-fee transactions i could make, today, with higher priority than A1?
1424540;1457358796;nubbins`;i could've kept A1 in limbo for a month if i'd wanted to
1424541;1457358812;asciilifeform;try, make? except that spamola temperature seems to be low today
1424542;1457358831;nubbins`;6k unconfirmed tx's right now
1424543;1457358847;asciilifeform;nubbins`: most of them are spam
1424544;1457358853;nubbins`;A1 was spam.
1424545;1457358866;asciilifeform;and in fact chained crud
1424546;1457358876;asciilifeform;nubbins`: how so?
1424547;1457358912;nubbins`;0-fee tx followed by 3 double-spend attempts in the midst of a mempool backlog
1424548;1457358933;asciilifeform;did it have unconfirmed inputs? No
1424549;1457358937;nubbins`;no, it didn't
1424550;1457358948;nubbins`;neither did the 20,000 transactions ahead of it with higher priority
1424551;1457358965;asciilifeform;how does something that ~follows~ a tx make it spam?
1424552;1457359008;nubbins`;how does a node operator distinguish between the 50,000 spam 0-fee tx's and bitbet's 0-fee tx?
1424553;1457359044;asciilifeform;the usual way?
1424554;1457359054;nubbins`;calling A1 spam was a stretch and not correct, but calling A1 anything other than the absolute lowest priority is unreasonable
1424555;1457359065;asciilifeform;age of inputs ?
1424556;1457359087;asciilifeform;i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it?
1424557;1457359088;nubbins`;again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1
1424558;1457359096;nubbins`;and i wouldn't even have to crack open two cold wallets
1424559;1457359115;nubbins`;asciilifeform the age of A1's inputs ranged from a couple days to a couple months iirc
1424560;1457359121;asciilifeform;sure. but do we have a reason to think this was done?
1424561;1457359135;nubbins`;do we have a reason to think which was done?
1424562;1457359165;asciilifeform;if it actually had 'days old' input, then this was reactor test.
1424563;1457359201;asciilifeform;but the resurrection still has to be explained.
1424564;1457359219;*;asciilifeform bbl
1424565;1457359390;davout;asciilifeform: any bitbet recipient had a strong incentive to rebroadcast, as soon as the second transaction actually paid them
1424566;1457359434;davout;not sure what makes you say that the tx reappearing needs any kind of explanation other than "people like extra money"
1424567;1457359445;nubbins`;look: i receive A1 when it's first broadcast, i hold onto it but i DON'T RELAY IT because my backlog is too big.
1424568;1457359460;nubbins`;once my backlog has been eliminated, i have no qualms about relaying A1
1424569;1457359495;nubbins`;but if i have a massive backlog, no 0-fee bum is gonna get a free ride
1424570;1457359514;nubbins`;davout +1
1424571;1457359584;nubbins`; if you think the relaying of A1 was triggered by B, you're daft
1424572;1457359608;nubbins`;an actor doing it on purpose, sure
1424573;1457359630;nubbins`;what bitbet payout recipient wouldn't want free coins
1424574;1457359654;nubbins`;hell, maybe the "bitbet stole my coinz" guy relayed it
1424575;1457359689;nubbins`;but a cabal saying "OK guise, he paid out from a new source, let's get A1 back out there!".... c'mon
1424576;1457359702;nubbins`;don't insult your own intelligence
1424577;1457359816;nubbins`;hmm i wonder if mp putting me on ignore means he's gotta filter me from his logs as well
1424578;1457359828;nubbins`;he's gonna find conversations really hard to follow
1424579;1457359894;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31575 @ 0.00053402 = 16.8617 BTC [-] {2} 
1424580;1457360077;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9474 @ 0.00053402 = 5.0593 BTC [-]
1424581;1457360152;danielpbarron;asciilifeform> i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it? << http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47581
1424582;1457360154;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1StXq1F )
1424583;1457360254;danielpbarron;nubbins`> again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1 << isn't this a "glass canon" as in, can only be fired once? How many nubbins` are out there with cannons? It costs money to assemble this weapon in short order. You have it from years of doing business.
1424584;1457360970;shinohai;http://gizmodo.com/nyc-district-attorney-conducts-biased-unsecure-survey-1762948174
1424585;1457360972;assbot;NYC District Attorney Conducts Biased, Unsecured Survey About How Encryption Hurts Police  ... ( http://bit.ly/1StZgjh )
1424586;1457361012;shinohai;"Anyone can access it and submit answers, which means that anyone can impersonate a police officer, prosecutor, or other law enforcement official."
1424587;1457361229;nubbins`;danielpbarron don't pretend to assume you know how many glass cannons i have
1424588;1457361279;danielpbarron;i'm just going by what you said
1424589;1457361293;nubbins`;also, don't change the argument into how feasible it is for a lowly shoemaker to pull it off
1424590;1457361309;nubbins`;it's irrelevant
1424591;1457361323;danielpbarron;that wasn't my implication. I meant "
1424592;1457361334;danielpbarron;"how many nubbins`" in an endearing way
1424593;1457361356;nubbins`;you meant that in general it's an expensive attack and would require lots of old coins
1424594;1457361363;danielpbarron;yes
1424595;1457361377;nubbins`;do you suppose there are any miners out there who'd be interested in generating a large mempool backlog for any given reason?
1424596;1457361419;nubbins`;do you suppose any large-scale miner would be anything but a complete fucking idiot if they haven't been socking away a percentage of each block reward for use when old coins are needed?
1424597;1457361433;danielpbarron;i suppose that there are plenty of groups, including miners, who would like to interfere with #bitcoin-assets properties
1424598;1457361463;nubbins`;i suppose you grossly overestimate what you're a part of
1424599;1457361482;nubbins`;look: how many new coins each day?
1424600;1457361492;danielpbarron;if what i'm a part of isn't as big as my estimation, I don't care for bitcoin anyway. So whatever.
1424601;1457361528;danielpbarron;you got your bouquinism and I got my Bible. I just hope other people have their things or it can get pretty depressing
1424602;1457361628;nubbins`;3600 new coins per day, give or take
1424603;1457361651;danielpbarron;regarding this hypothesis that miners are socking away a percentage, why then do most coin bases have a single output?
1424604;1457361681;danielpbarron;as far as i know, the only pool taking advantage of the ability to create as many outputs as you want in a coin base is Luke-Jr's Eligius
1424605;1457361705;nubbins`;uh, you know you can move the coins again, right?
1424606;1457361711;nubbins`;they're not trapped in place
1424607;1457361718;danielpbarron;yeah but why not just do it in the first place? even older.
1424608;1457361737;nubbins`;easier bookkeeping, for starters
1424609;1457361758;nubbins`;why don't you see pool-mined blocks split the reward into a million outputs?
1424610;1457361785;nubbins`;because it's retarded to chop up a reward before you have to
1424611;1457361786;danielpbarron;well that's what Eligius does, or did last i looked into it
1424612;1457361815;nubbins`;this doesn't preclude the fact that /any/ individual pool miner can have 10%, or 50%, or 100% of his daily take socked away immediately into long-term storage
1424613;1457361819;davout;danielpbarron: just because Luke-Jr does it doesn't necessarily make it sensible
1424614;1457361819;adlai;p2pool does this, too
1424615;1457361823;mircea_popescu;and welcome to the wonder of halfway logs. sigh.
1424616;1457361835;mircea_popescu;davout whatever happened to xeur bot yest
1424617;1457361857;nubbins`;;;echo sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy
1424618;1457361857;gribble;sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy
1424619;1457361860;davout;danielpbarron: also splitting coinbases directly hurts the miner's bottom line
1424620;1457361863;nubbins`;;;echo enjoy following the convo
1424621;1457361864;gribble;enjoy following the convo
1424622;1457361884;nubbins`;davout +1
1424623;1457361912;adlai;splitting coinbases only makes sense for pools which actually have multiple workers
1424624;1457361920;nubbins`;why do extra work when the timer's counting down? adding a single extra output could mean the difference between mining a block and not
1424625;1457361935;adlai;(in which case, it *helps* the bottom line, sparing the cost of payout txen)
1424626;1457361950;davout;mircea_popescu: not sure what you're referring to?
1424627;1457361963;mircea_popescu;!s marketmaking from:jurov
1424628;1457361964;assbot;5 results for 'marketmaking from:jurov' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=marketmaking+from%3Ajurov
1424629;1457362005;nubbins`;given that age is a factor in propagating tx's, it seems implausibly short-sighted to assume that  miners don't keep a portion of their earnings untouched to build up age
1424630;1457362017;davout;mircea_popescu: these weren't me
1424631;1457362036;nubbins`;given that any rational miner would save old coins, it seems implausible to think that a small number of miners would be unable to create a huge mempool backlog
1424632;1457362038;mircea_popescu;...
1424633;1457362125;nubbins`;given that it's trivial to create a large backlog of old coins, it seems implausible to think that mp's relatively new coins could not simultaneously be high enough priority to be kept in mempool but low enough priority that it's one of the last tx's to be cleared
1424634;1457362162;davout;bot was down last night too obviously
1424635;1457362176;danielpbarron;you got a blog, go investigate the age of flood inputs and write it up; i'll read it
1424636;1457362211;nubbins`;given that miners who run node farms aren't fucking idiots, it seems implausible to assume that halting rebroadcast of lowest-priority tx's until the backlog is cleared is not a thing that would happen
1424637;1457362228;nubbins`;danielpbarron why in the fuck would i do that? i'm not so cheap that i can't afford a dime for fees
1424638;1457362248;mircea_popescu;hence my question :)
1424639;1457362249;*;nubbins` has never, ever, ever had a stuck tx and is baffled as to why anyone w/ money ever would
1424640;1457362299;mircea_popescu;jurov approved.
1424641;1457362307;nubbins`;a dime. actually nine american cents at the time of the incident.
1424642;1457362457;danielpbarron;nubbins`, you should write it up for the sake of changing the minds of people who are so far not impressed with your unsubstantiated claims in the channel
1424643;1457362511;nubbins`;no, i really shouldn't
1424644;1457362529;nubbins`;i should just state the obvious explanation and let whoever wants to sing about cartel collusion do so
1424645;1457362562;mircea_popescu;check it out, 3 minute inclusion.
1424646;1457362607;mircea_popescu;this is novel, even for 600byte txn with above-average fees and 10^10 size inputs aged halfyear+
1424647;1457362613;nubbins`;idgaf about some 17btc transaction, only to point out that if someone touts targeted collusion as the most likely answer, they're probably selling something
1424648;1457362642;nubbins`;i actually think it's beyond mirthful that mp lost 17 btc of bitbet's money
1424649;1457362692;nubbins`;and is so hotly ashamed that he's resorted to this
1424650;1457362717;trinque;who the fuck cares what amuses you, and how does that illuminate the issue?
1424651;1457362736;trinque;this level of discourse is what's shameful.
1424652;1457362818;mircea_popescu;so yes, for the sake of keeping the record straight - it is not possible for miners to include my (high-S, btw!) txn in blocks within 2:55 if in fact running a chain head delayed reporting scheme. either it got turned off or it never existed in the first place, anyone's call.
1424653;1457362864;nubbins`;trinque agreed. mp's ludicrously false statements set the bar really low
1424654;1457362904;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
1424655;1457362904;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
1424656;1457362916;nubbins`;still waiting for someone besides mp to agree that this is what happened
1424657;1457362929;nubbins`;preferably with, y'know, a link to where it happened
1424658;1457362940;nubbins`;rather than blankly stating it to be so
1424659;1457362944;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00053622 = 5.818 BTC [+]
1424660;1457363077;nubbins`;anyone?
1424661;1457363088;nubbins`;we all read the logs, yes?
1424662;1457363150;nubbins`;anyone else who wishes to bring up the subject of shameful discourse is welcome to revisit the logs where i began speaking on this topic
1424663;1457363243;nubbins`;and see who was interested in speaking like an adult and who was interested in speaking like a child
1424664;1457363342;trinque;regardless, it's a fine way to go forward.
1424665;1457363356;trinque;I've read all the l0gz
1424666;1457363363;nubbins`;i know everyone else likes to just let idiocy happen
1424667;1457363371;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15773 @ 0.00053402 = 8.4231 BTC [-]
1424668;1457363382;nubbins`;i was forced by my own sanity to actually call this one for what it was
1424669;1457363411;mircea_popescu;adlai there's some historical charge in there : bitcoin's first and largest ponzi ran a "mining" whatever, for the obvious and transparent purpose of acquiring freshly minted coins to pay out the idiot "investors". this was a major contributor to the early crystalisation of what came to be known later as "mining pools" which is what eventually in due time coallesced into today's problem. whether it was avoidable at all
1424670;1457363411;mircea_popescu; or not is dubious, but that aside pirate's gpumax certainly played a major early role.
1424671;1457363426;mircea_popescu;people didn't use to split coinbases because they preferred to sell them, for 103% or w/e.
1424672;1457363432;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13027 @ 0.00053399 = 6.9563 BTC [-] {2} 
1424673;1457363477;nubbins`;did you guys also like how the 17 btc of mp's own money that he lost is going to be taken from shareholder dividends?
1424674;1457363524;nubbins`;not sure how kakobrekla feels about that, but if i worked for a company where my boss gave away 17 btc of his own money and then recouped it from the company's dividends, i'd call the cops
1424675;1457363601;nubbins`;(bitbet, being a 0-asset corporation, did not own the funds contained in transaction B; they were ostensibly owned by mp. any funds disbursed via B are not the responsibility of bitbet in any way, shape, or form)
1424676;1457363666;nubbins`;in fact, the entire S.BBET february statement is fraudulent, based on this
1424677;1457363690;nubbins`;unfortunately, mp's gonna have to wait until he catches up on the logs to read that ^
1424678;1457363728;nubbins`;trinque, danielpbarron, other assorted fans?
1424679;1457363783;nubbins`;shinohai, kakobrekla?
1424680;1457363945;shinohai;!s S.BBET february statement
1424681;1457363946;assbot;2 results for 'S.BBET february statement' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=S.BBET+february+statement
1424682;1457364052;hanbot;nubbins' your projectile posturing isn't particularly useful. mp told you, i count two? three times? yest how to form your thoughts into something reviewable.
1424683;1457364059;trinque;this is what I meant about the level of discourse. I have not declared myself a "fan" of anything.
1424684;1457364065;hanbot;you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer?
1424685;1457364071;trinque;there is a scientific way to criticize a claim.
1424686;1457364668;danielpbarron;hi dooglus
1424687;1457364683;dooglus;hi
1424688;1457364709;dooglus;I was looking at trb, and trying to sync it from my bitcoin core node
1424689;1457364713;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37083 @ 0.00053694 = 19.9113 BTC [+] {3} 
1424690;1457364723;mircea_popescu;-addnode ?
1424691;1457364727;dooglus;I notice core won't talk to it for long before cutting it off
1424692;1457364733;dooglus;is this a known issue?
1424693;1457364737;mircea_popescu;what version is this ?
1424694;1457364751;dooglus;it has a lot of 9's
1424695;1457364757;mircea_popescu;no, the "core"
1424696;1457364790;dooglus;"receive version message: /therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/: version 99999" and - um - 0.12?
1424697;1457364813;mircea_popescu;hm. and you have these two running on the same machine, or within a local net ?
1424698;1457364829;dooglus;core doesn't like messages bigger than 2MB, and trb sends ~7MB messages
1424699;1457364841;dooglus;that's why it's getting disconnected. both on the same machine
1424700;1457364851;mircea_popescu;something which may be related if not outright this is known here as blackholing
1424701;1457364853;mircea_popescu;!s blackholed
1424702;1457364854;assbot;24 results for 'blackholed' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=blackholed
1424703;1457364855;dooglus;(with -port and -rpcport, on separate users)
1424704;1457364862;mircea_popescu;it'd be interesting if you managed to reproduce it in the lab.
1424705;1457364888;trinque;could also be the malleus patch if that version of prb issues heathen commands
1424706;1457364891;dooglus;see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ;
1424707;1457364891;mircea_popescu;mod6 trinque asciilifeform ^ prob of interest.
1424708;1457364903;mircea_popescu;trinque but he said it cuts the other way.
1424709;1457364909;dooglus;commenting out that part fixed it for me - they talk happily now
1424710;1457364912;trinque;ah
1424711;1457364922;mircea_popescu;!rated dooglus
1424712;1457364922;assbot;You have not rated dooglus.
1424713;1457364928;mircea_popescu;no wai ?!
1424714;1457364947;dooglus;GetDistanceBack() is huge, causing it to try requesting 100k's of headers at once
1424715;1457364958;dooglus;you unpersoned me because CLAM
1424716;1457364960;mircea_popescu;!rate dooglus 2 ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.
1424717;1457364960;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/95b0d7d96dadf30f
1424718;1457364984;mircea_popescu;!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.dooglus.2:3c6c25e386479486e1de0e81ec42ca24bfd40f96aa16d1252b39ca9e7d5e8af3
1424719;1457364984;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 2 for dooglus with note: ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.
1424720;1457364998;mircea_popescu;utter pity what happened to jd.
1424721;1457365124;dooglus;oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel?
1424722;1457365127;dooglus;'cos it did...
1424723;1457365155;trinque;dooglus: yep, it is using buildroot to have a deterministic build environment
1424724;1457365167;mircea_popescu;!up TrueBanker
1424725;1457365171;nubbins`;<+hanbot>you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer? << you don't seem to get that me spelling the entire thing out again in long form is zero on my list of priorities, but i appreciate you switch-hitting for mp because it'd really look silly if he responded himself
1424726;1457365197;mircea_popescu;dooglus yeah. it's fully encapsulated, initial idea was to run it on pogos.
1424727;1457365217;mircea_popescu;well.. actually that's still the idea, just we ended up running around with all sorts of subquests that turned mainline.
1424728;1457365239;shinohai;I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing.
1424729;1457365295;mircea_popescu;i sitll have crates of the things in storage that will one day sing.
1424730;1457365328;nubbins`;dooglus: are you saying that trb nodes are eventually ignored by core nodes simply due to trb passing enormously large messages?
1424731;1457365388;nubbins`;mircea_popescu, kakobrekla : http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
1424732;1457365389;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
1424733;1457365395;dooglus;nubbins`: yes, I believe so. this appears to fix it: http://dpaste.com/0FFDMQT
1424734;1457365396;assbot;dpaste: 0FFDMQT ... ( http://bit.ly/1Suc0WT )
1424735;1457365399;nubbins`;also deed-ified here: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
1424736;1457365400;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Suc1u5 )
1424737;1457365404;deedbot-;[Trilema] Eulora auction, March 13th - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-auction-march-13th/
1424738;1457365407;shinohai;mircea_popescu: I wound up buying 3 thanks to mats, had considered more lol
1424739;1457365417;nubbins`;which oddly confirmed almost right away because i blew a whole quarter on the fees
1424740;1457365443;nubbins`;dooglus how 'bout that!
1424741;1457365466;nubbins`;one has to wonder if bitbet is using this boojum in production
1424742;1457365468;hanbot;nubbins' what again? didn't you just bitch at someone over not giving a link to what they claim happened? take a breather, preferably a long one, and figure your own shit out. you're smelling.
1424743;1457365480;mircea_popescu;fortunately with that asshole mp killing moore's law, not terrible danger of pogos ever not being worth the 10 bux or w/e they cost.
1424744;1457365483;nubbins`;oh, you need a link to the bitbet listing agreement?
1424745;1457365492;shinohai;lol
1424746;1457365495;nubbins`;http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.BBET
1424747;1457365497;assbot;S.BBET last 3000@0.00008301 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SucmwO )
1424748;1457365497;hanbot;jesus already. get lost.
1424749;1457365509;nubbins`;you'll find the text for section 3.2 (h) under section 3.2 (h)
1424750;1457365517;nubbins`;you fuckin get lost.
1424751;1457365522;nubbins`;running the mouth
1424752;1457365548;nubbins`;struggling harder than mod6 was just to get a gentoo install running
1424753;1457365559;nubbins`;then daring to enter into a conversation about technical issues
1424754;1457365599;dooglus;see commit 85ea8b4f4380dac803d43cd0b7829b107cc09e38 in core : "Limit getheaders to a hard 2000" - fixes the issue there
1424755;1457365612;mircea_popescu;well... really, it CREATES an issue.
1424756;1457365644;mircea_popescu;it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense.
1424757;1457365652;nubbins`;;;echo http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ creates an issue
1424758;1457365653;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
1424759;1457365653;gribble;http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ creates an issue
1424760;1457365659;mircea_popescu;and any "node" running that crap is ipso facto and for this non-compliant with bitcoin
1424761;1457365694;dooglus;this isn't creating the protocol limit of 2MB - that's elsewhere
1424762;1457365700;mircea_popescu;of course not.
1424763;1457365711;mircea_popescu;this is breaking bitcoin in some other edge.
1424764;1457365721;danielpbarron;nubbins`, http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot
1424765;1457365721;assbot;irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1NQw0l8 )
1424766;1457365723;nubbins`;hanbot check the rules before opening your word-hole again: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/
1424767;1457365725;assbot;#bitcoin-assets rules and regulations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1k32ZX6 )
1424768;1457365735;dooglus;but ... but ... the protocol is whatever core does! didn't you hear?
1424769;1457365740;nubbins`;danielpbarron there were too many iterations of deedbot so i rolled my own. i can share the code, but it should be compatible
1424770;1457365743;mircea_popescu;never heard.
1424771;1457365753;mircea_popescu;possibly on account of all the heralds of that idiocy getting shot.
1424772;1457365770;nubbins`;"You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do"
1424773;1457365781;trinque;nubbins`: got an axe to grind with everyone now?
1424774;1457365790;*;shinohai pops popcorn.
1424775;1457365794;nubbins`;yeah, "now". maybe you should read the rules too, or shut the fuck up and get out
1424776;1457365807;nubbins`;everyone QQing because nubs is a meanie
1424777;1457365844;nubbins`;trinque "Professional means that you respect your elders, on account of their superior experience, which makes them better people than you. "
1424778;1457366055;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22709 @ 0.00053452 = 12.1384 BTC [-]
1424779;1457366186;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424721 << this is not actually correct, it should build only gcc and toolchain, then trb.
1424780;1457366186;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:38:44; dooglus: oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel?
1424781;1457366205;asciilifeform;something likely went wrong with his buildroot bringup.
1424782;1457366301;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424728 << if we plug the 1) blockindex crap (see logz) and 2) idiot tx-sticks-around-forever leaks - pogos sing.
1424783;1457366301;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:40:39; shinohai: I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing.
1424784;1457366394;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424731 << how this will be settled ? pistols at dawn ? gladiators ?
1424785;1457366394;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:08; nubbins`: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla : http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
1424786;1457366431;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform which blockindex was this ?
1424787;1457366438;shinohai;Nothing says Republic like gladitorial combat! :D
1424788;1457366446;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my experiment where i determined that :
1424789;1457366448;asciilifeform;!s 300 bytes
1424790;1457366449;assbot;4 results for '300 bytes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=300+bytes
1424791;1457366481;asciilifeform;this was the smaller leak. in the sense where i quantified it ~exactly~, algebraically.
1424792;1457366482;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14562 @ 0.00053523 = 7.794 BTC [+] {2} 
1424793;1457366482;nubbins`;asciilifeform ideally it'd be settled by mp admitting he was grossly incorrect and revising the statement
1424794;1457366498;mircea_popescu;ah ah
1424795;1457366499;nubbins`;asciilifeform but something tells me that s.bbet is going to be a "scam investment" from here on out.
1424796;1457366502;mircea_popescu;unbound memory yeah.
1424797;1457366511;mircea_popescu;;;bc,stats
1424798;1457366513;nubbins`;after all, 17 btc is one thing, pride is another
1424799;1457366515;gribble;Current Blocks: 401587 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1612 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1424800;1457366526;mircea_popescu;;;calc 300 * 401587
1424801;1457366527;gribble;120476100
1424802;1457366540;mircea_popescu;that's a large pogo rigt there.
1424803;1457366553;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall eatblock ?
1424804;1457366557;mircea_popescu;yeah
1424805;1457366559;asciilifeform;i created it for this test.
1424806;1457366584;mircea_popescu;anyway. 2 has a much more obvious solution, if as discussed not exactly trivial and wtf are fibonacci stacks.
1424807;1457366601;mircea_popescu;this however - you will conceivably need some sort of block indexing mechanism.
1424808;1457366631;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421938
1424809;1457366631;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 19:57:56; asciilifeform: http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~csli/graduate/algorithms/book6/chap21.htm
1424810;1457366646;*;nubbins` is curious to hear opinions of others re: bitbet fraud, but fears that he'll be the only one sticking up for the investors
1424811;1457366649;mircea_popescu;i meant it figuratively!
1424812;1457366654;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: permanently parking things in ram is retarded.
1424813;1457366667;mircea_popescu;well it's certainly voiding the warranty, as that's not what the ram is for.
1424814;1457366671;asciilifeform;ram exists as cache of disk.
1424815;1457366705;mircea_popescu;(imagine, as a subtopic, the wonder of computing if hardware came with guarantee "unless used for uinappropiate purpose" and then coders had to write code that didn't void any warranties.)
1424816;1457366728;asciilifeform;if warranties were still a thing.
1424817;1457366756;asciilifeform;they sorta died away when hardware became largely disposable crud.
1424818;1457366830;asciilifeform;nubbins`: imho the shareholders have a legit complaint re: the reactor test, and ought to be told why/what/etc. but i'm not a s.bbet shareholder, and nobody asked me (tm) etc.
1424819;1457366856;PeterL;for the record, I agree with nubbins` about bitbet transction
1424820;1457366899;asciilifeform;i'm wondering if mircea_popescu is not in a position similar to the familiar murder mystery detective, where he ~knows~ that dr. evil did the deed, but cannot prove.
1424821;1457366914;asciilifeform;(or cannot prove without blowing up a glass cannon)
1424822;1457366978;nubbins`;either way, introducing a private debt to s.bbet is plainly breaking the listing agreement, and the method by which mp has proposed to discharge it is also plainly breaking the listing agreement
1424823;1457366993;nubbins`;it's interesting to see a man's will fight cold logic
1424824;1457367000;*;asciilifeform goes and reads the bbet broadcast
1424825;1457367019;asciilifeform;nubbins`: were you heare for the onetimepad thread ?
1424826;1457367022;asciilifeform;*here
1424827;1457367023;mircea_popescu;the shareholders can have all the legit complaints they want, about anything that happens whatsoever. we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya about our legit complaints that bitcoin doesn't work, and we would like it to, and it should be fixed by other people at their expense so we can continue our lifestyle undeterred. meanwhile - nonvoting shares can be sold, and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual
1424828;1457367024;mircea_popescu; gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it.
1424829;1457367028;nubbins`;asciilifeform not sure
1424830;1457367040;PeterL;mircea_popescu made a stupid mistake, and now he makes the shareholders pay for it
1424831;1457367061;nubbins`;yeah
1424832;1457367070;mircea_popescu;and i suppose i'm going to have my own legit complaints about how much this thing costs to run, and start billing by the hour, and in fiat, and the legit complainers can run off to the bank with their bitcoin and pay, or somesuch nonsense.
1424833;1457367079;nubbins`;;;echo "don't like fraud? sell your shares"
1424834;1457367079;gribble;don't like fraud? sell your shares
1424835;1457367121;mircea_popescu;PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.
1424836;1457367125;nubbins`;;;echo don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
1424837;1457367125;gribble;don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
1424838;1457367125;mircea_popescu;this is the definition of these terms.
1424839;1457367130;nubbins`;this is so fucking rich
1424840;1457367155;nubbins`;lel
1424841;1457367166;nubbins`;"when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it"
1424842;1457367176;nubbins`;not when the ceo makes a mistake on his own time, out of his own pocket, the company doesn't
1424843;1457367182;nubbins`;fucking idiot
1424844;1457367187;PeterL;and when the ceo of a company consitently makes mistakes, he gets fired
1424845;1457367202;mircea_popescu;by all means. hence, " and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it."
1424846;1457367212;asciilifeform;where is kakobrekla ? i thought he was ceo of bbet ?
1424847;1457367235;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts.
1424848;1457367246;asciilifeform;ah
1424849;1457367249;nubbins`;asciilifeform kakobrekla is probably wondering what the future holds for him, as he is currently being forced to decide between PGP signing a fraudulent financial statement or losing his livelihood. i envy him not.
1424850;1457367278;nubbins`;sadly, it will be mp's ego that costs him the loss either way
1424851;1457367323;nubbins`;although i guess if s.bbet can break its listing agreement with impunity, it can also stop providing signed financial statements to MPEx with impunity
1424852;1457367328;nubbins`;so it probably won't be delisted
1424853;1457367347;nubbins`;after all, it's more about ego than logic or facts
1424854;1457367354;nubbins`;pathetic, really
1424855;1457367389;*;nubbins` sidesteps a tumbleweed
1424856;1457367437;PeterL;nubbins` yes
1424857;1457367444;dooglus;I'm new to this whole bitbet payout mess, but read somewhere that the 'B' transaction was made after receiving advice to do so. Who advised it, and why?
1424858;1457367458;mircea_popescu;wasn't publicly shared.
1424859;1457367463;dooglus;oh, ok
1424860;1457367488;mircea_popescu;but the somewhere'd be prolly qntra i'd guess.
1424861;1457367509;nubbins`;dooglus it would seem that mp did it on his own accord. bitbet is a "zero asset" corporation, and thus doesn't own any capital; there was nowhere for a second 17btc to come from.
1424862;1457367527;asciilifeform;from the sturles thread, i learned that most idiot nodes are set up to ignore what they think is 'double spend' on purely chronological what-i-saw-first grounds. and mircea_popescu was mighty pissed, and i also (to me, this was new, i do not habitually track prbism)
1424863;1457367537;nubbins`;at any rate, being a 0a corp, the funds from B weren't bitbet's. regardless of who owned them.
1424864;1457367552;dooglus;I expect so. I was also trying to find the 16% referenced in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421022
1424865;1457367552;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 16:18:56; mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.
1424866;1457367558;nubbins`;asciilifeform mp's anger morphed into "this theorem was disproven" in his broken brain
1424867;1457367564;PeterL;there is no spec, they can order transactions in whichever way they want
1424868;1457367565;mircea_popescu;this is a minor point. there are better bits. such as - that an transaction known but not advertised constitutes the simple definition of "transaction withholding".
1424869;1457367572;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b138
1424870;1457367574;mircea_popescu;also a minor point, but at least relevant re protocol discussion.
1424871;1457367581;dooglus;because it seems unlikely to be true. A1 had an uncommonly high priority, way over 100 million
1424872;1457367605;PeterL;nubbins` I guess bitbet is not keeping a 100% reserve of bets now?
1424873;1457367605;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho the relevant bit here is that we (at least i) do not know ~who~ withheld it, and then exhumed and transmitted it, and why
1424874;1457367614;asciilifeform;it could have easily been a node operator.
1424875;1457367633;nubbins`;PeterL A1-A4 had bitbet's inputs. A1-A4 went awol. B had mp's personal inputs.
1424876;1457367643;asciilifeform;when mircea_popescu said 'miners' i assumed he had intelligence pointing in that direction.
1424877;1457367649;nubbins`;bitbet keeps a 100% reserve, not a 200% reserve, which is why we know B's inputs had to have been mp's personal funds.
1424878;1457367655;mircea_popescu;initially i thought that "nodes" is a meaningful term, but what i see now is a large ball of node with a bunch of sattelites that have ~ no importance flattering themselves into thinking they're part of a network.
1424879;1457367660;PeterL;so B should not be counted against bitbets funds if it was not bitbet money
1424880;1457367661;mircea_popescu;sort-of like us electoral process works.
1424881;1457367661;nubbins`;asciilifeform when you assume someone has intelligence...
1424882;1457367709;nubbins`;PeterL yes, precisely. section 3.2 (h) of bitbet's listing agreement forbids this.
1424883;1457367715;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought this was quite apparent long ago
1424884;1457367719;nubbins`;that's the basis of my as yet unanswered fraud accusation
1424885;1457367720;asciilifeform;ball of node + dryer lint
1424886;1457367729;mircea_popescu;besides the point - it is a factual matter now.
1424887;1457367751;mircea_popescu;somehow the difference between this and that keeps getting elided.
1424888;1457367772;mircea_popescu;as if everyone's a little bit everything and it all evens out or something, dunno.
1424889;1457367835;asciilifeform;nubbins`: consider this:
1424890;1457367842;*;nubbins` bends an ear
1424891;1457367851;mircea_popescu;but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
1424892;1457367889;asciilifeform;you are on a nuke sub. captain, having been informed by six different crew members that reactor coolant has been replaced with pisswater, and the valve gaskets - with chewing gum, gives in to the temptation to run a test.
1424893;1457367891;PeterL;the qntra article is illogical and jumps to the conclusion you want, ignoring the simplest explanation
1424894;1457367893;nubbins`;i wouldn't put too much weight behind mp's bitbet experience
1424895;1457367906;asciilifeform;the thing begins to melt.
1424896;1457367926;mircea_popescu;PeterL this statement would be a lot less ridiculous had the "simplest explanation" been actually formed as the article even encourages the reader to do!
1424897;1457367929;asciilifeform;want to fight with captain? pump bilgewater to cool down the rods ?
1424898;1457367937;asciilifeform;i have nfi. i'm not even on the sub.
1424899;1457367949;nubbins`;asciilifeform maybe the captain can just refund the gum and pee for gaskets and coolant, the ship's financial officer OKs it, life goes on, ego bruised but the sub still floating?
1424900;1457367959;nubbins`;we've got all the coolant and gaskets RIGHT HERE
1424901;1457367969;nubbins`;the only reason we'd need to sink is if cappy's too proud to use em
1424902;1457367986;mircea_popescu;but, time's not wasted, go forth and write down your proposed simplest explanation.
1424903;1457368022;nubbins`;PeterL i think he's hinting that text is too hard and he needs an infographic
1424904;1457368039;mircea_popescu;with any luck it'll be something like "miner cartel, what a ridiculous idea - not like the anon derps involved are a) known to be idiots and b) have certain incentive do do exactly this! moreover, the much simpler explanation is that... uh... uh... mp conspiracy! and scam! and fraud! and he doesn't care about bitcoin! and i'm an idiot that'll show him!!11"
1424905;1457368042;mircea_popescu;wtf is this shit even.
1424906;1457368063;nubbins`;^ as you can see, lots of hand-waving and rhetoric is the best response mp can dig up when under fire
1424907;1457368070;nubbins`;still not a word re: blatant fraud
1424908;1457368078;PeterL;can you not see sturle's comment, seems the most logical to me?
1424909;1457368102;mircea_popescu;we discussed this that same day he made it. plox to check your copy of the logs.
1424910;1457368107;nubbins`;ah, right.
1424911;1457368108;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
1424912;1457368108;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
1424913;1457368124;nubbins`;no such "falling apart" was witnessed, upon review of the logs by ALL parties present.
1424914;1457368138;nubbins`;what did happen was mp got very upset and the topic changed
1424915;1457368141;PeterL;0fee txn, nodes hold onto it (but don't rebroadcast), later when backlog is smaller they broadcast it
1424916;1457368147;nubbins`;yep.
1424917;1457368151;nubbins`;incredibly simple explanation.
1424918;1457368155;nubbins`;it's what my node does
1424919;1457368160;nubbins`;baffled that most don't
1424920;1457368165;nubbins`;...or maybe they do!
1424921;1457368173;mircea_popescu;congrats, you've formed a theory about a selection of the facts on record.
1424922;1457368178;mircea_popescu;wanna try for the whole thing ?
1424923;1457368190;PeterL;and "the code is the spec", so the spec says first txn see overrides any later (regardless of fees)
1424924;1457368195;nubbins`;^ this is what you'll get as a response no matter how well thought-out your explanation is
1424925;1457368198;nubbins`;sauce and hyperbole
1424926;1457368203;PeterL;which facts does it miss?
1424927;1457368207;mircea_popescu;it also says txn get thrown out of pools after x days.
1424928;1457368218;PeterL;how do you know?
1424929;1457368220;mircea_popescu;PeterL they're in the qntra piece.
1424930;1457368227;mircea_popescu;how do YOU know what the code says ?
1424931;1457368229;nubbins`;and you wonder why i have zero interest in "doing up a blog post" or whatever masturbatory navel-gazing bullshit is somehow better than explaining it real-time
1424932;1457368230;PeterL;did you go look into the mempool of every node?
1424933;1457368240;nubbins`;hahaha
1424934;1457368246;nubbins`;mp has node x-ray goggles.
1424935;1457368256;mircea_popescu;i looked into whatever i looked sufficient to satisfy myself.
1424936;1457368258;nubbins`;he sends a special packet and the node dumps its mempool, json format
1424937;1457368279;nubbins`;that way he can tell what transactions other nodes are aware of but are not rebroadcasting
1424938;1457368283;nubbins`;oh, wait, that's fucking retarded
1424939;1457368284;PeterL;it would only take one node holding onto the txn for it to be rebroadcast
1424940;1457368306;mircea_popescu;and instamined.
1424941;1457368313;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
1424942;1457368313;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:24:11; mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
1424943;1457368332;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla it does not tell everyone what "i think", it tells everyone what i saw.
1424944;1457368334;PeterL;and maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later, at which point it rebroadcast the txn?
1424945;1457368355;mircea_popescu;but, sure, "experience of that fraction of bitbet that does payouts", is right.
1424946;1457368365;mircea_popescu;PeterL possibly, sure.
1424947;1457368378;nubbins`;PeterL imagine how high the priority would be on A1 by the time it makes it to the front of the mempool queue
1424948;1457368385;nubbins`;why, it'd instantly be included in a block!
1424949;1457368394;mircea_popescu;also trivially meets the definition of "withholding txn", but w/e.
1424950;1457368396;nubbins`;oh, wait, that lines up with the fucking facts
1424951;1457368435;PeterL;withholding txn, sitting on txn, not the same thing
1424952;1457368436;nubbins`;;;echo no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
1424953;1457368436;gribble;no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
1424954;1457368451;dooglus;maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later << or maybe one of the winners of the bet saw he had been paid and rebroadcast A1 so he could get paid again; that seems like the most obvious motivation for rebroadcasting A1
1424955;1457368463;mircea_popescu;also possible.
1424956;1457368468;nubbins`;dooglus logic has no place in this discussion
1424957;1457368489;mircea_popescu;HOW did they see it ?
1424958;1457368494;mircea_popescu;at that time, it was yet invisible.
1424959;1457368505;PeterL;what was invisible?
1424960;1457368508;mircea_popescu;~nobody saw it, somehow, hence questions about bitbet payouts.
1424961;1457368509;mircea_popescu;A1.
1424962;1457368513;nubbins`;you're assuming the bitbet broadcast node is covert.
1424963;1457368520;nubbins`;that's probably a stupid assumption
1424964;1457368529;dooglus;the winners wouldn't have seen A1 vanish after 48h or whatever the mempool lifetime is; for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them
1424965;1457368531;PeterL;A1 you sent out to the world, everybody listening saw it
1424966;1457368548;mircea_popescu;except nobody did, somehow.
1424967;1457368549;mircea_popescu;this is integral.
1424968;1457368565;nubbins`;^ you have no way of proving that
1424969;1457368565;mircea_popescu;see, the problem with assumptions is - making them.
1424970;1457368605;dooglus;everyone you sent it to saw it. Didn't you broadcast it to ~100 nodes?
1424971;1457368618;mircea_popescu;i thought i had, yes.
1424972;1457368640;PeterL;mircea_popescu you seem to be making some big assumptions and plugging your ears whenever anybody questions them
1424973;1457368645;dooglus;they won't tell you they saw it - it was 0 fee, so won't be relayed to anyone
1424974;1457368649;nubbins`;PeterL that's sort of the way it is
1424975;1457368666;nubbins`;dooglus i've been saying this since the first minute, but he just won't listen
1424976;1457368674;mircea_popescu;depends what code they run, but this could well be.
1424977;1457368675;nubbins`;it's actually mind-boggling
1424978;1457368678;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40962 @ 0.00053446 = 21.8926 BTC [-]
1424979;1457368696;mircea_popescu;so far, we're with the assumption that "bettor with incentive was running one or more of the nodes mp  connected to".
1424980;1457368702;mircea_popescu;this - should be given a %.
1424981;1457368726;mircea_popescu;as it isn't, per your theory, the case that "Whole world saw". just the set in question.
1424982;1457368727;nubbins`;;;echo remove bettor from the statement, it's falsely constricting
1424983;1457368727;gribble;remove bettor from the statement, it's falsely constricting
1424984;1457368755;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b139
1424985;1457368782;nubbins`;^ just to put everyone at ease even though payouts are on indefinite hiatus, here's a 10 btc house bet
1424986;1457368806;nubbins`;yes, that's right, payouts are on indefinite hiatus because paying 9 cents tx fee isn't a solution
1424987;1457368813;dooglus;"bettor" could be replaced by "anyone who wants to fuck MP over" I guess if you want to increase the probability somewhat
1424988;1457368819;nubbins`;dooglus +1
1424989;1457368830;mircea_popescu;well... if it's not a bettor then "for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them" doesn't stick anymore.
1424990;1457368856;nubbins`;yeah, how could a non-bettor have a watch-only address in his wallet?
1424991;1457368871;nubbins`;surely he couldn't just add the pubkey.
1424992;1457368910;nubbins`;dooglus if you're wondering, mp ignored me in a fit of rage yesterday
1424993;1457368914;PeterL;so there are what, 23 outputs or so? and it would take just one of them seeing the txn to hold onto it
1424994;1457368930;nubbins`;PeterL one person watching one of the 23 outputs, yes
1424995;1457368932;mircea_popescu;all the outputs go to bet winners.
1424996;1457368960;mircea_popescu;let's move on to the next step. THEN, MP broadcast A2, which HAD a fee. to a non-overlapping set of nodes. the disjunction of the two sets had a perfectly valid txn they... also didn't broadcast, because magic reasons.
1424997;1457368964;nubbins`;except for B, where one of the outputs went back to you because it was your money, not bitbet's
1424998;1457368968;mircea_popescu;and then we do this a coupla more times, and so on.
1424999;1457368994;nubbins`;"to a non-overlapping set of nodes" -- aha! he's found an out that he hasn't used yet -- the nodes weren't overlapping now, see?!
1425000;1457368995;PeterL;well, there is probably a large overlap between bettors and people running nodes, since these are people who have an interest in the bitcoin network working so they can get paid
1425001;1457369013;mircea_popescu;by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure.
1425002;1457369024;nubbins`;large overlap between blatant fraud and mp right now
1425003;1457369036;nubbins`;still no response to allegations!
1425004;1457369045;nubbins`;shareholders of all mpex assets must be shitting
1425005;1457369058;mircea_popescu;anyway, ima bbl.
1425006;1457369075;nubbins`;can't simultaneously invent complicated lies and hold a convo
1425007;1457369077;nubbins`;cheers
1425008;1457369101;nubbins`;weird, still no signed bitbet statement
1425009;1457369125;nubbins`;hope there's nothing wrong with the financials
1425010;1457369141;nubbins`;that'd be turbo embarassing
1425011;1457369154;dooglus;if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right?
1425012;1457369183;nubbins`;dooglus in the absence of proof, i'd assume that they were sent to the same nodes
1425013;1457369207;PeterL;<mircea_popescu> by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure. << it only takes one, and I bet and have a node, therefore it might have been me too
1425014;1457369223;nubbins`;hey, i bet and have a node too
1425015;1457369234;PeterL;so maybe it was you!
1425016;1457369242;nubbins`;maybe we should open a node cartel!
1425017;1457369260;nubbins`;maybe bitbet shouldn't be sending 0-fee transactions when there's a massive mempool backlog!
1425018;1457369282;nubbins`;maybe mp shouldn't have put a personal expenditure on bitbet's books!
1425019;1457369301;PeterL;maybe just never send 0fee txn, because customer payouts should be a priority?
1425020;1457369302;nubbins`;all these maybes, and more, to be left unaddressed -- stay tuned!
1425021;1457369312;dooglus;I suspect that's the client's fault - used to be that high-priority inputs meant you didn't need a fee
1425022;1457369329;nubbins`;PeterL i think it's fairly obvious that customer payouts are zero priority, given the 0-fee payout attempt followed by a payout embargo
1425023;1457369335;asciilifeform;nubbins`: my current hypothesis is that he did not intend a reactor test, but simply allowed the transmitter to calculate a default fee, which turned out to be 0, and sent.
1425024;1457369338;PeterL;but how is mircea_popescu going to address the concerns if he ignores the people who raise them?
1425025;1457369369;nubbins`;PeterL i don't think you understand how this place works
1425026;1457369378;nubbins`;mp does not address concerns, flaws, mistakes, or errors. ever.
1425027;1457369391;nubbins`;the hilarity that's ensued today is me proving this to the point of ridiculousness
1425028;1457369401;PeterL;asciilifeform but sending the second txn was pure idiocy, since he had no way of knowing the first would not also be mined
1425029;1457369407;asciilifeform;nubbins`: this is not true, see the onetimepad thread, mp admitted that he made an arithmetical mistake once !
1425030;1457369419;nubbins`;asciilifeform if i send $7,000 cash in the mail, i don't let the post office choose the delivery standard
1425031;1457369424;adlai;nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet
1425032;1457369429;nubbins`;asciilifeform well then!
1425033;1457369432;asciilifeform;PeterL: what, i am curious, would you have done ?
1425034;1457369443;asciilifeform;so he sends A1, and notices that it is in limbo.
1425035;1457369445;asciilifeform;now what.
1425036;1457369448;PeterL;well, either wait for the first transactio
1425037;1457369459;asciilifeform;or what?
1425038;1457369466;nubbins`;or send another turbo low fee transaction 12 hours later.
1425039;1457369471;nubbins`;with the same inputs.
1425040;1457369478;asciilifeform;didn't he ?
1425041;1457369479;nubbins`;while the backlog is still huge.
1425042;1457369481;nubbins`;yes, he did
1425043;1457369481;PeterL;or double spend the outputs (and get a miner to include) before sending txn B
1425044;1457369485;nubbins`;unsusprisingly, nothing happened
1425045;1457369497;asciilifeform;and then do what? eat pistol ?
1425046;1457369505;nubbins`;if he'd gone straight from A1 to A4 we'd probably all be drinking soda together now
1425047;1457369511;asciilifeform;what was bbet (or mircea_popescu at the console, or imagine youself there instead) do instead ?
1425048;1457369512;nubbins`;or, y'know, fucking waited
1425049;1457369525;nubbins`;it's not like prompt payouts have ever been a priority
1425050;1457369533;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i thought your objection was precisely to a4
1425051;1457369538;nubbins`;don't make me dig up examples of bets that took a week to resolve
1425052;1457369539;PeterL;but in any case not send txn B until txn A has been resolved
1425053;1457369542;asciilifeform;where he had to use mysterymeat input of his own
1425054;1457369560;nubbins`;B was mysterymeat input
1425055;1457369568;nubbins`;of his own
1425056;1457369573;nubbins`;A1-A4 was bitbet's money
1425057;1457369615;asciilifeform;anyway i have no idea if mircea_popescu send the 'doubles' because he was pissed and mashing keys, or if he forgot that most of the node network is run by imbeciles who go by chronology to 'resolve doublespend', or what. ask him, not me.
1425058;1457369620;*;adlai tries rebroadcasting http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425031
1425059;1457369620;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:50:24; adlai: nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet
1425060;1457369626;nubbins`;even if it'd worked, he still would have been introducing a private expense to bitbet's books and then paying himself back from A* inputs, which still breaks the listing agreement
1425061;1457369636;davout;were A2, A3, A4 ever published?
1425062;1457369652;nubbins`;adlai i don't think that mixing bets like salad paints a prettier picture.
1425063;1457369680;nubbins`;and there's a name for an operation that pays cashouts from more recent takings
1425064;1457369691;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what does the listing agreement say re: what to do, as a shareholder, if you think mp has been afflicted by martian brain parasites and broke the agreement ?
1425065;1457369693;nubbins`;it shares many letters with the word pizza
1425066;1457369707;adlai;nubbins`: it does change the picture from "fraud! abdication! blood of tyrants!" to "mp made a mistake when acting as coin-handler for a corporation"
1425067;1457369707;nubbins`;asciilifeform unsurprisingly, it says zilch.
1425068;1457369724;nubbins`;adlai yes, the refusal to admit the mistake is what's constituting the fraud.
1425069;1457369738;nubbins`;as it stands, mp's debt is bitbet's debt.
1425070;1457369744;nubbins`;http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/
1425071;1457369746;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LamWrs )
1425072;1457369747;nubbins`;see with your own eyes
1425073;1457369757;PeterL;nubbins` payout from inputs is good for transparency, but it would be perfectly legitimate for bitbet to send all funds to one address and then make all payouts from the same address
1425074;1457369798;kakobrekla;davout afaik no.
1425075;1457369812;*;adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn't this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells a different story than the addresses listed on the site
1425076;1457369816;nubbins`;wait, no
1425077;1457369820;nubbins`;Should BitBet fail to execute this Agreement, as for instance by but not limited to breaching 3.2.h above, MPEx will notify the named individuals of their breach and may, at its sole discretion, suspend the asset from trading thus activating the liquidation of the asset.
1425078;1457369836;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424487 << ORPHAN!
1425079;1457369836;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 13:36:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block.
1425080;1457369852;nubbins`;so if mp defrauds bitbet, mpex has the OPTION of liquidating it.
1425081;1457369852;kakobrekla;BingoBoingo show me.
1425082;1457369860;nubbins`;any bets on whether that'll happen?
1425083;1457369880;BingoBoingo;kakobrekla: Might take a while...
1425084;1457369918;kakobrekla;Thats what they said for Jesus.
1425085;1457370032;davout;kakobrekla: pls to do so, i'm looking through my nodes logs to see if and when i heard about them
1425086;1457370032;PeterL;and by the way, how did we jump to the conclusion that the collusion is from "Chinese miners"? (And why is the disclaimer on bitbet so tiny and discreet?)
1425087;1457370049;kakobrekla;davout i dont have that information.
1425088;1457370056;nubbins`;it's so tiny so people won't stop betting.
1425089;1457370060;nubbins`;turbo scammy
1425090;1457370104;nubbins`;and "we" jumped to the conclusion because there's a not-insignificant amount of worry in the ecosystem right now about chinese monopoly, so it's an easy lie to sell
1425091;1457370109;PeterL;kakobrekla is there an estimated timeframe for when bet payouts will resume?
1425092;1457370114;asciilifeform;PeterL: i have nfi how mircea_popescu concluded that miners were involved. the only clue i have is that it has recently come out that the top cn miners have formed a derp committee of some kind, apparently for purposes of negotiated separate peace with the enemy
1425093;1457370124;davout;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425061
1425094;1457370124;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:53:56; davout: were A2, A3, A4 ever published?
1425095;1457370124;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1425096;1457370135;nubbins`;go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation
1425097;1457370153;nubbins`;by the time it's raised, you can barely read it for the noise about "bitcoin has been forked"
1425098;1457370184;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i ~really~, very much, hate the miners. but i do not have the smoking gun that tells us that they were at fault.
1425099;1457370206;nubbins`;asciilifeform bush didn't have the smoking gun but he still went to iraq
1425100;1457370207;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's observations best fit the 'there is no longer a reliable network' model.
1425101;1457370223;nubbins`;agreed with caveats
1425102;1457370223;asciilifeform;rather than 'miner cartel' model.
1425103;1457370224;kakobrekla;asciilifeform there never was.
1425104;1457370248;thestringpuller;nubbins`: "Why is Bush so convinced Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?" Negrodamus: "Because he has the receipt."
1425105;1457370272;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: mircea_popescu sent the first tx. noticed that it has apparently vanished from the fact of the earth. what is the thing to do in that case ?
1425106;1457370286;asciilifeform;*face of
1425107;1457370291;thestringpuller;^-patience?
1425108;1457370299;davout;asciilifeform: do a double spend, manage to get a conflicting tx mined
1425109;1457370303;nubbins`;so, where do we go from here? we have an mpex listing where the owner's introduced fraudulent expenses and the other owner won't sign the financial statement. the only party who has recourse of any sort is mpex, but of course the conflict of interest involved will preclude mpex from resolving the situation to honest satisfaction
1425110;1457370306;asciilifeform;davout: which is what he did ?
1425111;1457370314;davout;asciilifeform: no, the tx he sent was not conflicting
1425112;1457370324;nubbins`;^ true
1425113;1457370333;jurov;asciilifeform: why was he ever sending zerofee tx?
1425114;1457370339;asciilifeform;davout: 'A second transaction was broadcast, spending the same inputs as A1, including a fee of 0.0001'
1425115;1457370340;nubbins`;jurov incompetence
1425116;1457370341;PeterL;nubbins`> go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation << if you look at the timestamps, it was just a couple hours before we started complaining, which was pretty much as soon as I got around to reading the article in question
1425117;1457370349;nubbins`;PeterL fair nuf :)
1425118;1457370359;davout;asciilifeform: it's the "manage to get mined" that's the important bit here
1425119;1457370361;asciilifeform;seems to me like he did a reasonable thing, which is to transmit a doublspend with moar fee
1425120;1457370368;asciilifeform;but forgot that the network is now run by aggressive imbeciles
1425121;1457370374;nubbins`;still not enough fee, by his own admission.
1425122;1457370375;asciilifeform;who will drop the tx on the floor
1425123;1457370383;nubbins`;so A1 and A2 were bad judgment calls, we can all agree there
1425124;1457370389;kakobrekla;asciilifeform  certainly not sign more parallel transactions to same effect and broadcast them like nothing happened
1425125;1457370394;nubbins`;^
1425126;1457370397;nubbins`;a thousand times this
1425127;1457370441;asciilifeform;but what instead ?
1425128;1457370456;nubbins`;this is like ordering pizza from 2 different shops, eating the one that shows up first, and acting surprised when you see both charged to your credit card
1425129;1457370458;davout;asciilifeform: try harder?
1425130;1457370471;kakobrekla;asciilifeform see the agreed upon solution for future bets payouts
1425131;1457370474;nubbins`;asciilifeform the "what instead" has been stated to be "use a fee of 9 cents" more than once.
1425132;1457370486;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: from the statement ?
1425133;1457370488;nubbins`;maybe 10 cents if you're feeling brave.
1425134;1457370491;kakobrekla;asciilifeform yes.
1425135;1457370505;davout;bbl
1425136;1457370509;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: it sounds reasonable. except that i suspect that most of the users will cry, 'how do i transmit a tx?111 waaah'
1425137;1457370525;nubbins`;most of the users will cry "this place is fucked"
1425138;1457370539;nubbins`;"i have to push my own tx because bitbet can't afford a tx fee"
1425139;1457370549;nubbins`;"what are they sniffing?"
1425140;1457370552;nubbins`;etc
1425141;1457370574;kakobrekla;i dont think this will be a problem. notice the 'double-check' guy from comments.
1425142;1457370598;nubbins`;seriously. "the stupidest tx ever was slow to propagate, therefore all payouts are suspended"
1425143;1457370606;nubbins`;sounds reasonable
1425144;1457370627;nubbins`;anyone who supports this gibberish shames themselves
1425145;1457370641;kakobrekla;nubbins` re 0 fee ; see first few lines http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47629
1425146;1457370642;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/24BzVIP )
1425147;1457370688;nubbins`;kakobrekla seems like you've got a good understanding of the likelihood of each explanation
1425148;1457370742;asciilifeform;[02:07:54] [mircea_popescu] ALL these ~happened~ to somehow drop out of mempools ? << from the document << later we learn that prb DROPS what it deems 'doublespend' SOLELY based on chronology.
1425149;1457370765;nubbins`;turns out "somehow" is "here's how:"
1425150;1457370773;asciilifeform;which handily explains why A2-A4 vanished.
1425151;1457370778;nubbins`;agreed
1425152;1457370820;PeterL;does trb do replace by fee?
1425153;1457370829;nubbins`;and a desire to not propagate shit tx's handily explains why A1 was retained but not relayed by nodes, agreed?
1425154;1457370838;asciilifeform;PeterL: what's that ?
1425155;1457370849;kakobrekla;'replace by fee' is a new thing that has not been ported
1425156;1457370852;PeterL;if trb sees A1 and A2, which does it keep?
1425157;1457370892;PeterL;(A1 is 0fee, A2 has fee, same inputs)
1425158;1457370935;asciilifeform;hm
1425159;1457370936;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0844
1425160;1457370941;assbot;Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1LaoiSM )
1425161;1457370945;asciilifeform;^ apparently whichever it sees 1st.
1425162;1457370951;asciilifeform;which is a bug.
1425163;1457370954;nubbins`;so we can explain why A1 was held for so long before being mined, and we can explain why A2-A4 vanished, and we can explain why mp thought that sending B was a good idea, but we now see that it was simply not a good idea because mp did not understand the payment protocol as well as he thought he did, and now we've got a 17 btc fraudulent expense on bitbet's ledger
1425164;1457370967;BingoBoingo;'replace by fee' USED to be how double spends were typically resolved by miner implementations
1425165;1457370979;asciilifeform;nubbins`: incidentally i have nfi what mpb does, i have never seen it and don't expect to
1425166;1457370989;nubbins`;asciilifeform agreed
1425167;1457371002;nubbins`;if there are any omissions or corrections to be made to my summation above, now would be the time
1425168;1457371009;nubbins`;i'm all ears
1425169;1457371015;PeterL;maybe mircea_popescu can tell us how his own implementation works?
1425170;1457371027;nubbins`;maybe he can defraud bitbet investors too
1425171;1457371032;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i fully expected that mircea_popescu would cover the 17 from the coin stuck in his toenails
1425172;1457371050;nubbins`;asciilifeform seems odd behaviour for a wealthy man, no?
1425173;1457371067;nubbins`;especially considering the shitstorm that this egregious fraud has blown up
1425174;1457371084;asciilifeform;but i have nfi, i'm not his mother, cannot answer why he does things! l0l!
1425175;1457371089;nubbins`;maybe he needs a loan. hanbot seems like she buys lots of stuff
1425176;1457371105;PeterL;asciilifeform I was suprised when  he decided to stick it onto bitbet's books
1425177;1457371112;nubbins`;i was shocked
1425178;1457371155;nubbins`;i guess we should put his lordship to a vote in a few days if he hasn't resolved things satisfactorily
1425179;1457371168;nubbins`;TMSR~ can't afford to harbour scammers or fraudsters
1425180;1457371200;asciilifeform;nubbins`: it is possible that mircea_popescu is holding a drill.
1425181;1457371213;asciilifeform;in his place, i would do it regularly
1425182;1457371220;nubbins`;?
1425183;1457371227;PeterL;If I send a txn to the addresses listed on a bitbet page, will that expense be put on the bitbet books too?
1425184;1457371237;nubbins`;i'm afraid your metaphor escapes me
1425185;1457371250;nubbins`;PeterL only if you own 25% of the shares
1425186;1457371253;PeterL;asciilifeform a scammer drill? to see if we call out an negrate scammers in a timely fasion?
1425187;1457371272;nubbins`;oh, that type of drill, not a power tool
1425188;1457371276;nubbins`;doubt it
1425189;1457371290;PeterL;and if we blindly follow him then he knows we are all derps?
1425190;1457371301;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50243 @ 0.00053577 = 26.9187 BTC [+] {2} 
1425191;1457371305;nubbins`;PeterL i don't know how much of the logs you've read, but it's mostly derps
1425192;1457371318;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-03-2016#1423312 << see also.
1425193;1457371318;assbot;Logged on 05-03-2016 22:35:15; asciilifeform: except i admit that i only expected 'this' to happen after cia murdered mircea_popescu and took his coin...
1425194;1457371323;nubbins`;i could count the individuals i'd consider intellectual peers on one hand
1425195;1457371334;PeterL;it's mostly mircea_popescu and asciilifeform bickering back and forth?
1425196;1457371353;nubbins`;they don't bicker much, and alf's a smart guy
1425197;1457371376;nubbins`;but by and large, this place is an intellectual wasteland
1425198;1457371402;nubbins`;take the situation of poor bitcoinpete: his underwear probably smells like mp's dick
1425199;1457371450;nubbins`;a less-loquacious parrot regurgitating half-understood conceits
1425200;1457371458;PeterL;are Canadians allowed to talk about each other so impolitely?
1425201;1457371479;nubbins`;or mod6, by all accounts a great guy, head of TRB, almost quit in the first week because he couldn't get a gentoo install up and running.
1425202;1457371494;nubbins`;and felt unfit to lead.
1425203;1457371500;PeterL;each of us have our warts
1425204;1457371543;nubbins`;yep. and a quick "you got it buddy" to mod6 and "you're really good at typing things up, you're wasting your talents at the loading bay" to dpb and you've got two more sets of undies smelling like mp's dick
1425205;1457371574;trinque;I don't get these shots at mod6; he wrote up a fine guide to building a gentoo...
1425206;1457371582;nubbins`;didn't even have to pay bingo to stick around, just bought him a domain and some text-only
1425207;1457371594;nubbins`;trinque not a shot, merely stating facts
1425208;1457371645;asciilifeform;nubbins`: when you were a boy, didja ever lead a band of other boys to raise hell ?
1425209;1457371657;asciilifeform;do you recall how it's generally done ?
1425210;1457371684;thestringpuller;a clockwork orange this is not
1425211;1457371686;nubbins`;asciilifeform i waited until adulthood to start raising hell, nobody listens to kids. but i smell a story coming
1425212;1457371694;asciilifeform;or, similar example, do you know how famous sov. circus trainer kuklachev trained housecats to perform ?
1425213;1457371695;PeterL;figure out which way they are running, jump in front and say "this way, boys!"?
1425214;1457371716;asciilifeform;PeterL: not quite.
1425215;1457371725;nubbins`;asciilifeform i'll venture a guess that it's the same way mp trains derps to stick around and parrot the party line
1425216;1457371728;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21298 @ 0.00053763 = 11.4504 BTC [+] {2} 
1425217;1457371752;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i dun think he needs the parroting for anything
1425218;1457371756;nubbins`;put some wet food on the other side of the hoop and dole out a few head scratches
1425219;1457371757;asciilifeform;it is like the vroom of a racing engine
1425220;1457371763;asciilifeform;yes, it goes with the engine.
1425221;1457371766;nubbins`;asciilifeform agreed which is why i think pete annoys me so much
1425222;1457371767;asciilifeform;but it does not move the car.
1425223;1457371800;nubbins`;like a small child holding a hot wheels shouting "vroom!"
1425224;1457371802;asciilifeform;nubbins`: fwiw pete_dushenski and i are not huge fans of one another.
1425225;1457371832;nubbins`;asciilifeform if we're calling spades spades, i think he's a piece of shit, but one has to wonder what weight MY opinion holds in such matters
1425226;1457371836;thestringpuller;all this before civil war II
1425227;1457371867;asciilifeform;nubbins`: why piece of shit? i think he's a snore, and he - likely thinks i am a snore. but why the mega-rage, l0l
1425228;1457371885;nubbins`;don't conflate strong feelings with rage, i'm having a great day :)
1425229;1457371906;nubbins`;as to why, i find his worldview repulsive
1425230;1457371914;nubbins`;and his personality lacking
1425231;1457371918;nubbins`;but this is off-topic
1425232;1457371945;nubbins`;fwiw, i also think mp is a piece of shit, but it was easy enough to idle in here and fleece some money out of him now and again. that time's obviously passed since all of his ventures are either spinning wheels or outright fraud shops
1425233;1457371948;asciilifeform;afaik pete_dushenski is this canadian fella who likes to race cars, and also occasionally reads the logz and writes summaries, in something like stalin's radio caster (levitan) voice.
1425234;1457371955;asciilifeform;i don't much care for them, myself.
1425235;1457371962;asciilifeform;i got enough of that as a kid.
1425236;1457371966;nubbins`;+1
1425237;1457371977;nubbins`;of course, one can converse with pieces of shit just fine, and even occasionally work together on common goals
1425238;1457372007;nubbins`;but when the shit turns sour and starts liquefying and spreading around, well, it'd be remiss of me to not try to contain it
1425239;1457372014;asciilifeform;nubbins`: do you actually think he was trying to personally fleece you ?
1425240;1457372018;asciilifeform;(or anybody ?)
1425241;1457372025;nubbins`;asciilifeform goodness no
1425242;1457372032;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu works as a pope.
1425243;1457372040;nubbins`;you got it backwards
1425244;1457372043;asciilifeform;does nubbins` understand why this is a painful job ?
1425245;1457372061;nubbins`;because the gold crowns are really heavy?
1425246;1457372064;asciilifeform;aha.
1425247;1457372068;asciilifeform;they ~are~.
1425248;1457372099;nubbins`;...?
1425249;1457372118;nubbins`;what i was saying is that i came here and stuck around to make money
1425250;1457372127;asciilifeform;nubbins`: recall the quantum computer thread ?
1425251;1457372129;nubbins`;i'm not here to make friends and brown-nose some random dude
1425252;1457372140;nubbins`;i'm here to get paid and call bullshit
1425253;1457372158;BingoBoingo;http://www.kuklachev.ru/eng/repertoir/2/
1425254;1457372159;assbot;Moscow Cats Theatre - Repertoir ... ( http://bit.ly/1nrH3FX )
1425255;1457372226;nubbins`;and mp is spraying bullshit like a fountain
1425256;1457372232;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402247
1425257;1457372232;assbot;Logged on 10-02-2016 17:08:22; mircea_popescu: alowing the possibility that this scam is actually worth taking seriously costs the people who follow what i say whatever it may cost them.
1425258;1457372240;asciilifeform;nubbins` ^
1425259;1457372260;asciilifeform;being pope is not easy.
1425260;1457372273;asciilifeform;he can't simply say 'oops!'
1425261;1457372292;nubbins`;lol.
1425262;1457372305;nubbins`;he can't simply admit his unquestioned fraud?
1425263;1457372315;nubbins`;strange temple you've built here, stan
1425264;1457372327;asciilifeform;l0l me?
1425265;1457372335;nubbins`;you're the one saying he can't just say oops
1425266;1457372342;nubbins`;of fucking course he can. what planet is this?
1425267;1457372350;asciilifeform;well that is my current understanding.
1425268;1457372364;nubbins`;"sorry guise, turns out, as you ALL KNOW, i made a mistake that would be interpreted as fraud if it stands"
1425269;1457372392;nubbins`;i can't tell if you're advocating letting the fraud stand as the only sensible option
1425270;1457372396;asciilifeform;what does kakobrekla have to say ?
1425271;1457372414;nubbins`;he's probably too busy worrying about bitbet vanishing
1425272;1457372436;asciilifeform;i dun think kakobrekla is congentalyl capable of worry
1425273;1457372441;asciilifeform;he had that muscle removed in the war.
1425274;1457372454;nubbins`;put his job on the line and see if he worries
1425275;1457372482;nubbins`;bitbet is a scam site if this stands, unequivocally. i dare you to declare otherwise, and if you so choose, please PGP sign it for us all
1425276;1457372495;nubbins`;make a history for ourselves
1425277;1457372505;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and admit he was conducting a drill.
1425278;1457372521;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning << as per.
1425279;1457372523;assbot;The Hour Of Reckoning on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Laq9r0 )
1425280;1457372523;nubbins`;what's the upper bound on the amount of time you'll wait?
1425281;1457372557;nubbins`;you can't leave it open-ended, that's just not gonna fly
1425282;1457372568;nubbins`;pick a timeframe and we'll see
1425283;1457372582;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7032 @ 0.00053633 = 3.7715 BTC [-] {2} 
1425284;1457372588;nubbins`;wanna give him a month? next bitbet statement should be out by then
1425285;1457372604;asciilifeform;nubbins`: idk, if this carries on, i might have to take up his offer and visit in person (and perhaps disappear into whatever gulag they put the real mircea_popescu in !1111)
1425286;1457372612;nubbins`;and if that statement doesn't cover march AND february, then s.bbet has failed reporting requirements as per mpex regs
1425287;1457372638;nubbins`;currently, no signed financial statement for feb 2016 exists
1425288;1457372658;nubbins`;1-month absences are allowed if the missed statement is rolled into the next
1425289;1457372671;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you did not complain when mine was late ?
1425290;1457372690;nubbins`;yours didn't have a $7,000 private spending spree on the books
1425291;1457372707;nubbins`;did it?
1425292;1457372717;asciilifeform;read it, it's up
1425293;1457372760;nubbins`;asciilifeform looks all A-OK to me
1425294;1457372770;thestringpuller;it has a $200 expense for phuctor
1425295;1457372774;thestringpuller;that will be recurrin
1425296;1457372788;asciilifeform;anyway nubbins` i srsly have nfi why the 17 was put in as bitbet expense, ask mircea_popescu, i'm not his mother.
1425297;1457372799;asciilifeform;and yes if i were bbet shareholder i'd be going ???.
1425298;1457372804;asciilifeform;but i;m not.
1425299;1457372836;asciilifeform;if i had to guess (why?) - say - drill.
1425300;1457372867;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: Are you familiar with the Dark Knight Returns?
1425301;1457372896;asciilifeform;nope.
1425302;1457372896;nubbins`;asciilifeform if you'll recall, i'm unable to ask mp because he has me on ignore; i've asked him via gribble ;;echo but he has deigned not to respond, save only through his girlfriend, who had nothing sensible to say
1425303;1457372926;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i think you did a perfectly fine job of putting the argument in the logz.
1425304;1457372965;nubbins`;asciilifeform thanks, it's refreshing to learn that at least one other person present is able to obtain information from words that have not been packaged up into a "blog post"
1425305;1457373009;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35400 @ 0.00053446 = 18.9199 BTC [-] {2} 
1425306;1457373031;nubbins`;just as long as we're all on the same page here that the 17 btc is fraudulent and mp is refusing to admit his fraud, i don't really have anything else to add, aside from shredding the ridiculous rebuttals put forth so far
1425307;1457373054;nubbins`;kakobrekla do you think you could make the "PAYOUTS CANCELLED FOREVER" text a bit smaller? it's taking over the whole page
1425308;1457373094;nubbins`;brb lunch
1425309;1457373415;*;shinohai waves at #b-a from his hot air balloon powered by todays logs.
1425310;1457373619;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33792 @ 0.00053402 = 18.0456 BTC [-] {3} 
1425311;1457373619;nubbins`;i can't see bitbet staying around as a going concern if mp doesn't eat crow
1425312;1457373640;nubbins`;seriously: outstanding bets that are in the system RIGHT NOW will be heading to mp's pocket later, to pay him back for his personal loss
1425313;1457373656;nubbins`;why the fuck would you use such a site?
1425314;1457373714;nubbins`;kakobrekla is gonna be pissed when he realizes that under mp's proposed terms, kako doesn't see a dime of dividend payouts until mp is made whole again
1425315;1457373750;nubbins`;even hanbot must be ashamed of him
1425316;1457373919;PeterL;anybody want to guess as to whether one of the winning bets on the JebBush bet was owned by mircea_popescu? who got the extra 7btc payment?
1425317;1457374024;nubbins`;nah, although i think it's fairly boilerplate that if there's x to be made by betting y on a late bet, it happens
1425318;1457374058;nubbins`;rubes wouldn't normally wager 7 btc to earn 0.4, but if you hold the keys, it's less of a gamble
1425319;1457374078;PeterL;yes, large late bets are common, but it could be mp doing it
1425320;1457374097;nubbins`;sure. why not / who cares?
1425321;1457374105;PeterL;just saying
1425322;1457374106;nubbins`;i always assumed it was so
1425323;1457374134;nubbins`;https://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2014/
1425324;1457374136;assbot;BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014 :: 1.18 B (8%) on Yes, 14.07 B (92%) on No | closed 1 year 5 months ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1LarJZV )
1425325;1457374136;nubbins`;see 8btc final bet
1425326;1457374423;nubbins`;i should make a bet, "mp will attempt once more to remove nubs from lordship list by march 9"
1425327;1457374429;nubbins`;oh, wait, payouts are on hold
1425328;1457375266;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22496 @ 0.00053357 = 12.0032 BTC [-]
1425329;1457375389;nubbins`;mpoe sinking like a stone since mp falsely claimed a chinese cartel fork
1425330;1457375397;nubbins`;guess investors finally had enough crazy
1425331;1457375449;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25804 @ 0.00053357 = 13.7682 BTC [-]
1425332;1457376181;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00053357 = 10.9649 BTC [-]
1425333;1457376425;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00053342 = 30.9917 BTC [-] {3} 
1425334;1457376913;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00053332 = 2.4533 BTC [-]
1425335;1457377216;jurov;!rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity
1425336;1457377216;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0a8571dc1513d7d0
1425337;1457377256;jurov;!v assbot:jurov.rate.nubbins`.2:e0d6b842084c5b88117ec108fc92582260506c5b83c14a923a960458fb9655fb
1425338;1457377256;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 2 for nubbins` with note: voice of sanity
1425339;1457377790;deedbot-;[Qntra] Google Tries Juicing Ad Sales WIth Appeal To Vanity - http://qntra.net/2016/03/google-tries-juicing-ad-sales-with-appeal-to-vanity/
1425340;1457378133;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00053357 = 2.5078 BTC [+]
1425341;1457379353;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30807 @ 0.00053357 = 16.4377 BTC [+]
1425342;1457379719;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00053357 = 11.5251 BTC [+]
1425343;1457380146;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3023 @ 0.00053332 = 1.6122 BTC [-]
1425344;1457380329;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50129 @ 0.00053332 = 26.7348 BTC [-]
1425345;1457380390;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44783 @ 0.00053329 = 23.8823 BTC [-] {4} 
1425346;1457381244;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00053357 = 21.6629 BTC [+]
1425347;1457381610;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00053357 = 1.7074 BTC [+]
1425348;1457381883;asciilifeform;so i reread the log, and,
1425349;1457381896;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424835 << is important point.
1425350;1457381896;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:12:01; mircea_popescu: PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.
1425351;1457381965;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu pulled the reactor control rods out because he had a drink too many, the shareholders, per the spec, have precisely two options - to forgive him, or to sell
1425352;1457381971;asciilifeform;as far as i can tell.
1425353;1457382077;asciilifeform;and this is not a mega-surprise, it is quite how the 'separation between the man and the uniform' thing works.
1425354;1457382131;asciilifeform;there is nothing in the bbet listing concerning 'if officer blows up the reactor, he will pay for it out of his lunch money'
1425355;1457382148;asciilifeform;because we are not in the soviet air force.
1425356;1457382163;nubbins`;there is, however, a thing in the bbet listing about not putting private expenses on the books.
1425357;1457382168;asciilifeform;aha
1425358;1457382171;asciilifeform;there is.
1425359;1457382180;nubbins`;a private expense being, e.g., mp spending his own money out of free will
1425360;1457382185;nubbins`;aka tx B
1425361;1457382217;asciilifeform;actually i have no idea where B came from
1425362;1457382234;asciilifeform;perhaps it was freshly-incoming bbet meat.
1425363;1457382238;asciilifeform;or change. or whatnot.
1425364;1457382240;nubbins`;that's worse.
1425365;1457382251;nubbins`;that's taking new funds to pay off an old debt
1425366;1457382254;nubbins`;aka a ponzi
1425367;1457382259;asciilifeform;well in that case it wouldn't be 'his own money', but legit operating meat, no?
1425368;1457382267;nubbins`;ask madoff about legit meat
1425369;1457382272;asciilifeform;why ponzi ?
1425370;1457382274;asciilifeform;i dun get it
1425371;1457382275;jurov;i'm rather curious if the point 3.2d was fullfilled, i.e. kakobrekla agreed with whole crapolade
1425372;1457382289;jurov;?
1425373;1457382294;nubbins`;asciilifeform B was money for another bet payout -- from what will B's winners be paid? C?
1425374;1457382303;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.11995078 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b141
1425375;1457382312;nubbins`;D?
1425376;1457382339;asciilifeform;nubbins`: recall, mircea_popescu said something to the effect of that he was putting out a fire.
1425377;1457382344;asciilifeform;with whatever was in reach.
1425378;1457382344;nubbins`;jurov iirc no; let me find link
1425379;1457382385;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424941
1425380;1457382385;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
1425381;1457382401;nubbins`;he did it behind kako's back
1425382;1457382408;nubbins`;that's 3.2 (d) and (h) busted
1425383;1457382412;jurov;well, we have breach of conract then
1425384;1457382416;nubbins`;yes, doubly
1425385;1457382423;nubbins`;unfortunately, in the case of breach of contract:
1425386;1457382429;asciilifeform;nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1424847 << suggests that it was not 'behind back' but the normal operation of bbet
1425387;1457382429;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:13:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts.
1425388;1457382435;nubbins`;4.3. Should BitBet fail to execute this Agreement, as for instance by but not limited to breaching 3.2.h above, MPEx will notify the named individuals of their breach and may, at its sole discretion, suspend the asset from trading thus activating the liquidation of the asset.
1425389;1457382448;nubbins`;,"may", "at its sole discretion" do nothing, also
1425390;1457382464;nubbins`;asciilifeform then the listing agreement is extremely poorly written
1425391;1457382467;kakobrekla;asciilifeform things of far lesser importance were normally discussed by 'the board'.
1425392;1457382486;jurov;but i wouldn't call it ponzi, at least till bitbet has equity
1425393;1457382510;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>with whatever was in reach. << madoff was putting out fires with whatever was in reach, too
1425394;1457382513;asciilifeform;i admit that i don't see the ponzi aspect here.
1425395;1457382520;nubbins`;nothing noble in the act, in and of itself
1425396;1457382560;nubbins`;jurov i wouldn't either; i don't believe B was from another bet
1425397;1457382578;nubbins`;ponzi is the alternative explanation, if B was not mp's funds but was funds from another bet
1425398;1457382605;nubbins`;so your choices are ponzi or fraud, served with a side of breached contract
1425399;1457382647;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36014 @ 0.00053448 = 19.2488 BTC [+] {4} 
1425400;1457382653;nubbins`;my guess is fraud; alf's suggestion that B was nipped from another bet is suggesing ponzi
1425401;1457382659;asciilifeform;i am also sympathetic to the argument that the currency chair broke when he sat down on it and wtf.
1425402;1457382662;nubbins`;but i don't think this is necessarily alf's position
1425403;1457382682;nubbins`;oh, me too. i'm not sympathetic to children playing at adult games tho
1425404;1457382690;asciilifeform;so chair collapsed and he grabbed whatever pipe was within reach.
1425405;1457382694;nubbins`;"their money, my money, whatever"
1425406;1457382700;jurov;stfu you redditor!!11
1425407;1457382714;nubbins`;heh
1425408;1457382728;nubbins`;that was mp's strongest rebuttal
1425409;1457382734;asciilifeform;anyway i have nfi, will let mircea_popescu explain whether his chair collapsed, which pipe, if any, he grabbed, what kind of reactor coolant came out, etc.
1425410;1457382739;asciilifeform;rather than trying to telepath.
1425411;1457382743;asciilifeform;which i am not any good at.
1425412;1457382773;*;nubbins` is still curious how kako feels about being denied his dividends until mp gets 17btc worth
1425413;1457382781;nubbins`;that's gonna take like a year or two, man
1425414;1457382792;nubbins`;long time to work for free
1425415;1457382946;asciilifeform;incidentally, i also have nfi how the 'zero asset' thing works. i.e., what was the plan if somehow bbet had lost x btc through some other misfortune.
1425416;1457382984;asciilifeform;somehow i can't picture that 'zero asset' means 'dies if the wind farts on it'
1425417;1457382997;asciilifeform;does it ?
1425418;1457383030;nubbins`;not my story, i have nfi.
1425419;1457383083;nubbins`;i guess the plan was for mp to bail it out and trawl the divs for x months
1425420;1457383093;nubbins`;he could've picked a better month to try it
1425421;1457383124;nubbins`;also seems a fairly retarded way to run a business, now that this has happened
1425422;1457383150;nubbins`;just think: if bitbet had socked away the 10btc that the random dude said it stole from him, there'd only be a 7 btc fraudulent expense on the books
1425423;1457383176;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0 << aka the death knell of bitbet
1425424;1457383178;assbot;BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCqtie )
1425425;1457383187;asciilifeform;nubbins`: if he had wanted to bail it out, he could have trivially - and anonymously - throw in however many coin.
1425426;1457383197;asciilifeform;and it would have been 'donation to shareholders'
1425427;1457383204;nubbins`;yep
1425428;1457383209;nubbins`;instead, he chose to...
1425429;1457383209;asciilifeform;and no one would even have noticed that any was lost.
1425430;1457383219;asciilifeform;but he did not do this because he is a ~principled~ fella.
1425431;1457383223;nubbins`;lol.
1425432;1457383227;asciilifeform;think.
1425433;1457383237;nubbins`;i resent the implication that i haven't been
1425434;1457383251;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you eminently also have been.
1425435;1457383269;nubbins`;you're not passing this off as being principled
1425436;1457383275;nubbins`;not happening
1425437;1457383300;asciilifeform;why would an unprincipled mp ~not~ anonymously fill in the hole ?
1425438;1457383317;nubbins`;why would judas rat out his buddy?
1425439;1457383321;nubbins`;|0|
1425440;1457383329;asciilifeform;you think mircea_popescu actually ~needs~ the 17 for something ?
1425441;1457383333;nubbins`;no, i don't
1425442;1457383338;asciilifeform;i think he uses more than 17 btc of toilet paper whenever he shits.
1425443;1457383345;asciilifeform;(with gold leaf.)
1425444;1457383348;nubbins`;sure, why not
1425445;1457383364;nubbins`;which is why it's insane that he didn't shrug off the loss
1425446;1457383369;nubbins`;and instead chose to breach a contract
1425447;1457383383;nubbins`;egregiously and unapologetically
1425448;1457383401;asciilifeform;the way i'm reading it, he was trying to make a point, that the currency is broken (and it is), and that he refuses to be held to answer for ~it being broken~
1425449;1457383423;nubbins`;oh, so he didn't know it was broken before this?
1425450;1457383431;nubbins`;hadn't taken a look at the rat's nest?
1425451;1457383431;asciilifeform;not to this degree ?
1425452;1457383452;nubbins`;in fact, he pushed out A1 knowing precisely the spaghetti-mess it was being pushed into
1425453;1457383460;nubbins`;ten american cents would have effortlessly done the job
1425454;1457383462;asciilifeform;i hold myself responsible for some of mircea_popescu's rage. and think that it is justified. because the thing ~is~ br0k3n.
1425455;1457383462;nubbins`;but he said:
1425456;1457383485;nubbins`;fuck everybody, i am mp. a 0-fee tx "should" work in my ideal utopia, so it's everyone else's fault if something weird happens
1425457;1457383571;nubbins`;asciilifeform guy said himself A1, A2 should never have worked.
1425458;1457383579;nubbins`;didn't give a fuck, tried em anyway
1425459;1457383591;asciilifeform;nubbins`: if i had to guess, a1 was sent with default knobs.
1425460;1457383597;nubbins`;because wooooo spring break
1425461;1457383604;nubbins`;default knobs!
1425462;1457383609;nubbins`;did he send it from his windows box?
1425463;1457383617;nubbins`;or his ipnohe?
1425464;1457383623;asciilifeform;mpb prolly.
1425465;1457383627;asciilifeform;which i know ~0 about.
1425466;1457383637;asciilifeform;for all i know (and i have said this) it runs on kremvax.
1425467;1457383640;nubbins`;"the default settings should be good enough, even though an iota of thought would reveal that they're not"
1425468;1457383647;nubbins`;right
1425469;1457383651;nubbins`;so you're blaming the black box?
1425470;1457383657;asciilifeform;nubbins`: default settings worked on every day prior to day x.
1425471;1457383672;nubbins`;sure about that?
1425472;1457383688;nubbins`;wait, right, black box.
1425473;1457383693;asciilifeform;again i have nfi, but this is the most parsimonious hypothesis
1425474;1457383700;asciilifeform;based on what mircea_popescu said in his article.
1425475;1457383705;nubbins`;most persnickety
1425476;1457383768;asciilifeform;nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ?
1425477;1457383771;asciilifeform;every time ?
1425478;1457383811;asciilifeform;and let's say the chair breaks one time, and nubbins` finds out that it was because of something a bunch of subhuman scum did.
1425479;1457383815;asciilifeform;what will he say ?
1425480;1457383832;kakobrekla;its not only that chair broke. he deliberately sat on it again (more precisely sat bitbet on it) after he noticed it was broken.
1425481;1457383841;nubbins`;if the chair accepted fees to better ensure my ass stayed sat, yes, i'd examine the chair very carefully when sitting for free.
1425482;1457383859;nubbins`;or, y'know, just pay the chair a reasonable fee
1425483;1457383861;nubbins`;say, nine cents.
1425484;1457383867;nubbins`;to sit $17,000 worth of ass
1425485;1457383888;nubbins`;back to the analogy drawing board
1425486;1457383912;nubbins`;kakobrekla he sat bitbet on it, then broke his own chair too, then billed bitbet for two chairs
1425487;1457383929;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ? << This is inspiring a yard project. I have a tall yet narrow tree to take down. Will make a tree stake before gone forever!
1425488;1457383950;nubbins`;cannibal holocaust remake?
1425489;1457383964;BingoBoingo;nubbins`: Nah, just craft project. Not film project
1425490;1457383979;nubbins`;even better
1425491;1457384020;danielpbarron;maybe the 17 btc should be donated to bbet by s.nsa? If indeed the whole point was to make a point about the brokenness of bitcoin.
1425492;1457384020;*;BingoBoingo may have to make the jump to power tools. Crosscut saw has given arm a beating.
1425493;1457384036;nubbins`;danielpbarron hahaha now we're thinking outside the box
1425494;1457384049;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: how do the shareholders of s.nsa feel about such a thing ?
1425495;1457384053;asciilifeform;any happier than the bbet ones ?
1425496;1457384064;asciilifeform;jurov ?
1425497;1457384070;nubbins`;asciilifeform i think it's clear that the shareholders are happy eating salted shit
1425498;1457384097;jurov;asciilifeform: i do check the mempol stats before sending small tx
1425499;1457384109;asciilifeform;nubbins`: well danielpbarron was asking about s.nsa shareholders
1425500;1457384112;jurov;and ALWAYS add at least 0.00001,
1425501;1457384127;danielpbarron;heh i'm a shareholder of both, although not a very big one. full disclosure : i have more invested in bbet than nsa
1425502;1457384156;nubbins`;asciilifeform and his suggestion provoked a hearty lel from me
1425503;1457384267;nubbins`;for its novelty as well as its impropriety
1425504;1457384279;nubbins`;jurov i've never sent a 0-fee tx
1425505;1457384282;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: i must confess that if mircea_popescu was conducting an experiment to demonstrate the brokkenness of bitcoin, under the banner of s.nsa, he would have put it as expense in s.nsa statement.
1425506;1457384287;nubbins`;bitcoin's not for poor people
1425507;1457384295;asciilifeform;which we signed. and notice, there is not such a thing there.
1425508;1457384325;asciilifeform;so even though mircea_popescu is not here, i can say with some certainty that he was not conducting an s.nsa experiment that day.
1425509;1457384339;jurov;i have mostly (and painfully) divested from s.nsa, but think two wrongs does not make right
1425510;1457384369;jurov;(i.e. taking from s.nsa money for something it was not involved with at all)
1425511;1457384379;nubbins`;i don't think anyone's seriously floating that as a solution
1425512;1457384396;asciilifeform;danielpbarron suggested it, so i was curious re: his logic.
1425513;1457384403;nubbins`;in fact, the only rational exit is for the 17 to come out of mp's couch cushions
1425514;1457384441;danielpbarron;just seems like more of an nsa themed thing, but I'm no expert in these matters and I'm not married to the idea
1425515;1457384479;nubbins`;danielpbarron you're assuming this was not borne of incompetence
1425516;1457384481;nubbins`;i don't know why
1425517;1457384483;nubbins`;but it was
1425518;1457384511;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: this would, then, have the unpleasant flavour of the car wash folks, who wash you at a red light and then ask for pay.
1425519;1457384520;asciilifeform;which i do not think was meant here.
1425520;1457384544;nubbins`;bitbet got washed at a red by mp
1425521;1457384555;nubbins`;cost for 1 windshield: 17 btc
1425522;1457384562;danielpbarron;i'm not saying you haven't made some sound points nubbins` , but I trust Mircea more than I trust you, and that's that.
1425523;1457384592;nubbins`;danielpbarron as is your perogative; however, in a battle of trust vs facts, i'd rather stick with facts
1425524;1457384598;punkman;was this even the first time bbet double paid?
1425525;1457384604;nubbins`;speaking as a man of no religion, you understand.
1425526;1457384616;nubbins`;everyone's slice is buttered differently
1425527;1457384620;punkman;wow mega backlogs
1425528;1457384633;nubbins`;punkman sorry, 80% me
1425529;1457384633;trinque;I butter mine on both, use as a transportation device
1425530;1457384654;nubbins`;cool, do you get on the bread, drop it on the floor, and thusly get the fuck out?
1425531;1457384657;asciilifeform;at any rate, mircea_popescu is prolly off sitting in the war room recrunching the numberz, and will come back and either show us that we're idiots, or apologize and 'gracious donation to shareholderz.'
1425532;1457384675;asciilifeform;but imho it is not a very interesting thread without him.
1425533;1457384697;punkman;bitcoin runs on drama!
1425534;1457384713;asciilifeform;thus far this is reminiscent of the otp thread.
1425535;1457384715;jurov;asciilifeform: lol 'war room', do you remember he did accounting mistakes wrt bitbet divs almost every month?
1425536;1457384723;trinque;nubbins`: bawww
1425537;1457384736;jurov;and we all know discussing what mp should and should not do is in vain, but he's not alone in there. i'm looking forward to see how kakobrekla follows with this
1425538;1457384748;asciilifeform;jurov: i have nfi, i admit that i do not typically follow the subject
1425539;1457384755;danielpbarron;as to whether the listing agreement was violated, I hope for the sake of myself and other shareholders that bbet isn't liquidated at the specified price of 0.00001 btc per share
1425540;1457384765;asciilifeform;recall, i am here for slightly different reason than other folks, i'm not really an 'assets' fella
1425541;1457384769;trinque;nubbins`: you have an embarassing habit of throwing jabs at everyone in a room when you have a problem with one
1425542;1457384776;asciilifeform;i have no assets and no net work, i just like maths.
1425543;1457384783;asciilifeform;*net worth
1425544;1457384789;nubbins`;trinque take one on the chin, why don't ya
1425545;1457384815;danielpbarron;asciilifeform, you ~are~ an asset <3
1425546;1457384818;asciilifeform;l0l
1425547;1457384824;trinque;awwww
1425548;1457384824;asciilifeform;i think i am what mircea_popescu terms a 'shoemaker.'
1425549;1457384829;asciilifeform;which is fine with me.
1425550;1457384838;asciilifeform;(this is a term in ru also.)
1425551;1457384841;nubbins`;accounting mistakes wrt bitbet divs almost every month? << iirc there was an s.mg that had an error around my stock warrant too
1425552;1457384859;danielpbarron;i'm a shoe shipper hehe
1425553;1457384883;nubbins`;wow, he called me a shoemaker as an insult earlier
1425554;1457384889;nubbins`;MAYBE IT WAS A COMPLIMENT
1425555;1457384918;jurov;better than shoe polisher at any rate
1425556;1457384920;danielpbarron;well i don't masquerade as a finance expert while making my shoes..
1425557;1457384936;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424381
1425558;1457384936;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 03:01:31; mircea_popescu: !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
1425559;1457384947;nubbins`;danielpbarron this isn't expert finance, my buddy
1425560;1457384951;nubbins`;simple logic
1425561;1457384958;*;danielpbarron shrugs
1425562;1457385003;nubbins`;mp shrugged too, sux for everyone i guess
1425563;1457385005;*;nubbins` shrugs
1425564;1457385011;nubbins`;anyone else?
1425565;1457385050;danielpbarron;i'm baking an article about this for my blog, fwiw
1425566;1457385056;nubbins`;i won't read it, fwiw
1425567;1457385151;asciilifeform;i will read.
1425568;1457385152;danielpbarron;on a related note, neither is worth much
1425569;1457385220;nubbins`;heh
1425570;1457386349;davout;oh god, such mega-drama
1425571;1457386540;asciilifeform;nah, this is mere kilo-drama.
1425572;1457386612;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424706 << this got lost in the noise and i would like to come back to it.
1425573;1457386612;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:34:51; dooglus: see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ;
1425574;1457386681;dooglus;see also: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/951 -- if it's not illegal to post github links in here ;)
1425575;1457386683;assbot;Limit getheaders to a hard 2000. by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #951 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0bTn3 )
1425576;1457386684;asciilifeform;i have to agree with mircea_popescu on this one , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424756
1425577;1457386684;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:47:24; mircea_popescu: it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense.
1425578;1457386702;asciilifeform;dooglus: when trb disagrees with prb, prb is ipso facto wrong.
1425579;1457386715;asciilifeform;because wtf goats do not get to decide human questions.
1425580;1457386725;dooglus;sure
1425581;1457386747;asciilifeform;so this answers it.
1425582;1457386755;asciilifeform;if your client barfs when working with trb, patch your client.
1425583;1457386814;dooglus;I saw MP's "a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour" and was sceptical
1425584;1457386856;dooglus;then remembered prb's 0.12 release writes the current block height into the locktime of transactions it creates
1425585;1457386861;dooglus;see http://dpaste.com/0FCJN2C
1425586;1457386862;assbot;dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cchP )
1425587;1457386877;dooglus;weird distribution of current block heights there
1425588;1457386881;asciilifeform;dooglus: mircea_popescu does not use prb.
1425589;1457386889;dooglus;doesn't matter
1425590;1457386923;nubbins`;everyone else does
1425591;1457386930;nubbins`;and everyone else is who relays tx's
1425592;1457386933;asciilifeform;nubbins`: yeah but he baked the tx
1425593;1457386941;nubbins`;he baked his fucking betting website
1425594;1457386942;asciilifeform;so prb tx-baking behaviour would not influence matters
1425595;1457386946;dooglus;most people don't use prb - most transactions don't have a non-zero locktime - but lots do
1425596;1457386955;nubbins`;BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece?
1425597;1457386968;nubbins`;it would be remiss for readers to miss out on a summation of this action
1425598;1457386971;dooglus;many other transactions in that block *do* have block heights baked into them
1425599;1457386986;asciilifeform;ah this is re: whether blocks are being withheld as per mircea_popescu's hypothesis.
1425600;1457387013;pete_dushenski;in other matters of discrepancy vis-a-vis bitbet, https://bitbet.us/bet/1217/bitcoin-main-net-block-size-to-increase-before/#c5748 https://blockchain.info/block-index/1087033/000000000000000006ee25df43ce4b44f6ee4f67032da09bba60001c34437017 http://blockr.io/block/info/401585
1425601;1457387015;assbot;BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase before July 2016 :: 3 B (58%) on Yes, 2.18 B (42%) on No | closing in 2 months 3 weeks | weight: 40`287 (100`000 to 2`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0ctRQ )
1425602;1457387018;assbot;Bitcoin Block #401585 ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cwx7 )
1425603;1457387019;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cu8i )
1425604;1457387025;dooglus;right. the majority of txs which do have a height baked in were created 10 blocks before that block
1425605;1457387061;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: what are we looking at here ?
1425606;1457387082;pete_dushenski;re links : number of txen, fees, hash, merkle root match - size of block and number of coins transacted do not match
1425607;1457387086;danielpbarron;nubbins`, http://trilema.com/2015/lacessiveram-editor/
1425608;1457387087;assbot;Lacessiveram editor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GY9tv0 )
1425609;1457387099;nubbins`;ty
1425610;1457387129;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: dunno if this is a common occurrence, just noticed it because it was raised in bb comment.
1425611;1457387183;pete_dushenski;i haven't the patience to compare every listed tx. perhaps someone else has script or program for this
1425612;1457387223;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: for your (two)dogged persistence, cheers.
1425613;1457387400;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: i do not. but this'd be a good beginner project
1425614;1457387414;asciilifeform;(write block disasmer that can take output of 'spitblock')
1425615;1457387428;asciilifeform;dumpblock, rather
1425616;1457387466;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00053315 = 31.7491 BTC [-] {4} 
1425617;1457387506;asciilifeform;and this is really appropriately a shiva project.
1425618;1457387550;dooglus;pete_dushenski: that block is 999962 bytes long, which is 976.5254 * 1024 - so that's the discrepancy
1425619;1457387551;asciilifeform;and now that i think about it, phf had a block disasmer in commonlisp.
1425620;1457387570;thestringpuller;;;calc 976.5254 * 1024
1425621;1457387570;gribble;999962.0096
1425622;1457387573;asciilifeform;but i have misplaced the link, and cannot find it in the logz
1425623;1457387595;dooglus;echo $((($(bitcoind getblock $(bitcoind getblockhash 401585) false | wc -c) - 1) / 2))
1425624;1457387672;pete_dushenski;so bc.info suddenly forgot that there are 1024 bytes in a kb, like the girl who thinks that her 3 months old son is '12 weeks old' ?
1425625;1457387679;pete_dushenski;strange.
1425626;1457387748;dooglus;they also think kB is spelled with a capital K. whenever blockchain.info disagrees with another block explorer, it's wrong
1425627;1457387761;nubbins`;pete_dushenski no hard feelings, i swear!
1425628;1457387832;asciilifeform;!up Chicago
1425629;1457387861;nubbins`;okay, pretty sure this qntra submission conforms to standard
1425630;1457387871;nubbins`;BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go
1425631;1457387876;dooglus;then there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte telling me there are 1000 bytes in a kilobyte and 1024 bytes in a kibibyte...
1425632;1457387877;assbot;Kibibyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1OXTXBC )
1425633;1457387892;shinohai;dafuq?
1425634;1457387894;nubbins`;dooglus kibi/mibi/gibi has been the bane of many
1425635;1457387910;nubbins`;FWIW, this is why "1 terabyte = 1,000,000,000,000 bytes"
1425636;1457387915;nubbins`;because it actually does
1425637;1457387962;*;nubbins` always chalked it up to americans not using the metric system, in which kilo is 1000 by definition
1425638;1457388003;asciilifeform;i side with tradition and honest ram vendors vs. consistency and scummy hdd makers.
1425639;1457388030;thestringpuller;ram vendors are honest?
1425640;1457388030;nubbins`;fwiw, the "bi" is short for "binary", because -- yep, you guessed it -- 1024 is a tidy 2^10
1425641;1457388038;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: in the sense that they 1024.
1425642;1457388043;nubbins`;abusing SI prefixes is honest?
1425643;1457388046;asciilifeform;yes.
1425644;1457388059;nubbins`;no metric unit is 1024 anything
1425645;1457388060;asciilifeform;because those who stopped, stopped so that they could scam consumers.
1425646;1457388070;thestringpuller;2^10
1425647;1457388075;thestringpuller;;;calc 2 ** 10
1425648;1457388075;gribble;1024
1425649;1457388136;danielpbarron;nubbins`> BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go << link the signed encrypted thing as a text file (on dpaste or your own site) in a later tell to Bingo
1425650;1457388179;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: lol is 'piece of shit' a term of endearment on your end of the globe ? i have a hard time keeping track of all the different culture nuances in this vast and expansive country of ours
1425651;1457388185;danielpbarron;make sure it's encrypted and not just signed.. otherwise the web crawlers get to read it first
1425652;1457388193;pete_dushenski;cultural*
1425653;1457388225;pete_dushenski;http://dpaste.com/0FCJN2C << v. interesting, dooglus
1425654;1457388226;assbot;dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cchP )
1425655;1457388244;dooglus;pete_dushenski: yeah, but what does it mean?
1425656;1457388248;pete_dushenski;i'm not qualified to say what it means !
1425657;1457388287;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: hey there's no rule proclaiming that everybody has to be friendz.
1425658;1457388317;asciilifeform;nubbins` and pete_dushenski are entirely welcome to sit on opposite ends of the bar and give mean stares or whatnot.
1425659;1457388348;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>because those who stopped, stopped so that they could scam consumers. << two wrongs make not a right
1425660;1457388416;nubbins`;[18:26:01]  <+nubbins`>pete_dushenski no hard feelings, i swear!
1425661;1457388492;BingoBoingo;<nubbins`> BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece? << sign/encrypt a document and pass it to me somehow
1425662;1457388502;dooglus;pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/382FKCJ
1425663;1457388503;assbot;dpaste: 382FKCJ: blocks either side of 400739 show a similar pattern too ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0eX2G )
1425664;1457388503;nubbins`;tyvm, please see pm from gribble
1425665;1457388523;nubbins`;BingoBoingo LMK if you plan to not publish
1425666;1457388552;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: to be sure.
1425667;1457388561;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: i gotcha ;)
1425668;1457388567;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425662 << this very readily suggests to me a malleus-II
1425669;1457388567;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 22:08:22; dooglus: pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/382FKCJ
1425670;1457388579;asciilifeform;that will refuse to relay tx where locktime is set.
1425671;1457388581;BingoBoingo;nubbins`: will let you know, but it seems rather long
1425672;1457388592;nubbins`;succinctness is not my strong point
1425673;1457388753;BingoBoingo;nubbins`: also wasn't encrypted
1425674;1457388769;nubbins`;lol why i gotta encrypt?
1425675;1457388776;BingoBoingo;seems a bit early to do a piece on this.
1425676;1457388785;nubbins`;breaking news, buddy. your loss
1425677;1457388808;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113593 @ 0.00053404 = 60.6632 BTC [+] {5} 
1425678;1457388869;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34008 @ 0.00053225 = 18.1008 BTC [-] {3} 
1425679;1457389013;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b142
1425680;1457389084;davout;dooglus: any interpretation for the data you posted? i fail to see anything meaningful to conclude from it
1425681;1457389113;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55350 @ 0.00053615 = 29.6759 BTC [+] {3} 
1425682;1457389135;davout;curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution - 70 transactions were made when block 400728 was the current block, and only 16 were made at a later point in time" when the majority of the referenced transactions have a 0 locktime
1425683;1457389141;davout;am i missing something ?
1425684;1457389197;nubbins`;also, FWIW, S.BBET has officially missed the Feb 5th deadline for publishing a (signed) feb 2016 statement.
1425685;1457389211;nubbins`;according to the listing agreement (3.2 (g)), this can only happen once per year, and it's march 7th
1425686;1457389225;nubbins`;*march 5th deadline
1425687;1457389241;nubbins`;seems early to be using your lifeline
1425688;1457389266;nubbins`;guess it took a couple days to work up the courage to introduce that private expense
1425689;1457389291;nubbins`;unfortunately, by the logic of the listing agreement, feb 2016 statement is null and void no matter if kako signs or not
1425690;1457389301;nubbins`;better luck next month with the feb+march statement
1425691;1457389303;asciilifeform;nubbins`: gonna also apply to snsa ?
1425692;1457389315;nubbins`;asciilifeform i haven't read over s.nsa listing agreement in depth
1425693;1457389316;asciilifeform;did i ever even once publish a broadcast exactly on time ?
1425694;1457389330;nubbins`;dude, it even says "solemnly promise and warrant".
1425695;1457389332;nubbins`;5th of the month.
1425696;1457389359;nubbins`;idgaf if they're published or not, but:
1425697;1457389360;nubbins`;The representatives of BitBet solemnly promise and warrant that complete and accurate Revenue and Net Revenue statements for each calendar month will be published by them no later than by the fifth day of the new month.
1425698;1457389379;nubbins`;instead, we have an incomplete, unsigned, inaccurate statement published on the 7th
1425699;1457389403;nubbins`;again, doesn't affect me, just saying. pretty cavalier.
1425700;1457389421;thestringpuller;are there any NSA statements published after the 5th?
1425701;1457389428;nubbins`;thestringpuller homework for ya
1425702;1457389494;thestringpuller;ain't nobody got time 4 that
1425703;1457389510;nubbins`;no kidding, i can only fit one broken contract in my head at a time
1425704;1457389570;nubbins`;i've made promises that are more thorough than this thing
1425705;1457389662;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48350 @ 0.00053629 = 25.9296 BTC [+] {2} 
1425706;1457390089;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55800 @ 0.00053104 = 29.632 BTC [-] {5} 
1425707;1457390333;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00053067 = 10.2419 BTC [-] {2} 
1425708;1457390500;mircea_popescu;in other news, http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1877403-stiuso-amenaza-para-cristina-y-desafio-para-macri
1425709;1457390501;assbot;Stiuso, amenaza para Cristina y desafío para Macri - 07.03.2016 - LA NACION   ... ( http://bit.ly/1QH5ZS5 )
1425710;1457390502;mircea_popescu;"El fiscal Alberto Nisman volvi� a ocupar el centro de la escena. La investigaci�n sobre su muerte est� tomando una orientaci�n, cuyo desenlace se puede prever: Nisman fue v�ctima de un asesinato en el que particip� el gobierno de Cristina Kirchner, en combinaci�n con agentes iran�es."
1425711;1457390525;mircea_popescu;looking for the low down on argentina ? read it in qntra today, or in the argentinian mass media a week later.
1425712;1457390574;BingoBoingo;lol
1425713;1457390585;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu !
1425714;1457390599;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1425715;1457390641;asciilifeform;see logz. reactor meltdowns, folks shat pants, etc.
1425716;1457390651;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425011 << they should have been. except if the "non overlapping" sets of miners DO in fact overlap, in the sense of being merely meaningless facades of the same one thing, in which case they wouldn't necessarily know that they can be trivially fingerprinted by the symptom of "hey, apparently they know about a txn they shouldn't know about".
1425717;1457390651;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:45:54; dooglus: if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right?
1425718;1457390683;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform is there anything more than random derp of tenuous association with b-a has a total meltdown when he realises that b-a is not fiat, the republic not a democracy and i don't give a shit about "people themselves" ?
1425719;1457390731;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425015 << you think so. but in reality, you're not actually part of the relay network.
1425720;1457390731;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:47:14; PeterL: so maybe it was you!
1425721;1457390739;mircea_popescu;you just don't know enough about this sort of thing to find this out.
1425722;1457390763;asciilifeform;see log. jurov, kakobrekla, and i all wondered wtf mircea_popescu thought he was doing when he programmed a1
1425723;1457390782;asciilifeform;and i think nubbins` has gone to drink
1425724;1457390804;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/706973928007151618
1425725;1457390818;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform see above neh ?
1425726;1457390844;asciilifeform;i have nfi, and might be a shoemaker.
1425727;1457390874;nubbins`;told ya he was just gonna carry on like nothing's happened
1425728;1457390899;asciilifeform;how is nubbins` 'tenuous' ? i thought he was a serious stockholder, long before i even came here.
1425729;1457390967;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y to nodes Nm where m
1425730;1457390967;mircea_popescu;=2i+1. suppose you verify that nodes Nm do not advertise Y. is this proof sufficient to you that nodes N1... Nn is a charade, and they are all node N ?
1425731;1457390974;nubbins`;no need to defend my character, just note that the attack is ad hominem and not addressing any of the various logical fallacies projected by the attacker
1425732;1457391002;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be.
1425733;1457391012;mircea_popescu;this'd be my definition of tenuous.
1425734;1457391014;asciilifeform;he did ask
1425735;1457391022;asciilifeform;and deedbotted it iirc.
1425736;1457391059;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401640 << sometime there
1425737;1457391059;assbot;Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:16; nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest s.mg stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for eulora.org, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your treason now, th
1425738;1457391085;asciilifeform;or was this a different nubbins`
1425739;1457391101;nubbins`;nope, nickserv would not allow
1425740;1457391105;nubbins`;;)
1425741;1457391167;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425729 <<< did you actually do this when broadcasting A1...4 ?
1425742;1457391167;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y 
1425743;1457391174;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1425744;1457391184;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425729 << yes.
1425745;1457391184;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y 
1425746;1457391186;mircea_popescu;minus the magic numbers, but this.
1425747;1457391197;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is standard syblic detector.
1425748;1457391215;mircea_popescu;and so no, one who things "well there's nodes, so it's a p2p network" is utterly flattering himself. no such thing in bitcoin. there's a supernode, and a bunch of whatevers.
1425749;1457391218;nubbins`;<+mircea_popescu>asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be. << memory failing you once again
1425750;1457391220;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform right.
1425751;1457391220;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you actually did this experiment, and this was the result, then you just nailed a set of sybils, yes
1425752;1457391232;asciilifeform;but we knew that it was infested, no ?
1425753;1457391250;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425743 mnope.
1425754;1457391250;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 22:52:54; mircea_popescu: myeah.
1425755;1457391255;asciilifeform;all of my experiments pointed at precisely this conclusion.
1425756;1457391260;mircea_popescu;the chief problem with trying to communicate things is that there's always going to be a set of idiots / lazy thinkers who want a specific outcome out of the conversation, and then proceed to parasitize it with their half-assed sententious bullshit.
1425757;1457391286;mircea_popescu;anyway. to my eyes this is specifically and precisely said in the qntra piece, but w/e, more passes never hurt anyone, i guess. except if the passes are beatings or something.
1425758;1457391296;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: well you also had a hypothesis concerning miners
1425759;1457391302;asciilifeform;which is what got folks rioting
1425760;1457391305;mircea_popescu;that's also in there. different part.
1425761;1457391320;mircea_popescu;let's just say that i lifted the rock and i saw every type of heresy in there.
1425762;1457391324;nubbins`;asciilifeform he spent all afternoon "napping" by throwing together some maths and deciding to switch stories
1425763;1457391333;mircea_popescu;which yes, on the sheer strength of the abundance and precision, "dang, this better be a nightmare"
1425764;1457391341;nubbins`;i guffaw loudly at the continued refusal to discuss 17 btc bitbet fraud
1425765;1457391349;nubbins`;and call shame upon mp
1425766;1457391428;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've been lifting the rocks for a while. but i do it with sapper's spade , but as i understand you did it with bbet's foot ?
1425767;1457391504;nubbins`;suppose i run two nodes, one a member of Nk and one a member of Nm. As long as my nodes are running proper sanity checks on each other (i.e. passing tx's between them), which obviously they should be because i'm not running SPV nodes, mp's "mathematical" argument falls apart at the seams
1425768;1457391506;nubbins`;nice try tho
1425769;1457391528;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what he was asking is, why would the nodes that he did NOT transmit a1 to, reject a2.
1425770;1457391531;asciilifeform;if they aren't relaying a1.
1425771;1457391535;nubbins`;numbers aren't your strong suit, maybe stick to doing the dark andreas antonolololopous schtick, it's what you're good at
1425772;1457391536;asciilifeform;this is a logical question.
1425773;1457391602;asciilifeform;nubbins`: they are, however, my strong point. and mircea_popescu asked an entirely logical q.
1425774;1457391611;davout;asciilifeform: i don't see how one could conclusively assert that A1 has not been relayed by the node one originally broadcast it to
1425775;1457391613;nubbins`;because two entities control most of the mining, and it's absolutely retarded for those same entities to not have a similar amount of control over nodes?
1425776;1457391627;mircea_popescu;anyway, if anyone had anythong intelligent to say that got buried in the spew, feel free to restate. i'm not wading through that pile of idiocy.
1425777;1457391630;asciilifeform;davout: if it ~was~ relayed, it would be mined.
1425778;1457391659;mircea_popescu;what has the log done to be reduced so!
1425779;1457391666;nubbins`;"feel free to restate"
1425780;1457391672;nubbins`;stating an argument once is insufficient
1425781;1457391674;mircea_popescu;davout because one can connect to it again and see what it says.
1425782;1457391675;nubbins`;you must then write a blog post
1425783;1457391678;davout;asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone
1425784;1457391678;nubbins`;and restate on irc once more
1425785;1457391685;nubbins`;guffaw
1425786;1457391708;asciilifeform;davout: so a1 was rejected by miners because ????. and a few hundred nodes, a day later, showed no symptoms of knowing about it.
1425787;1457391711;davout;mircea_popescu: true
1425788;1457391722;asciilifeform;then ages later, it gets unearthed. by whom, and how?
1425789;1457391760;davout;asciilifeform: i have nfi, but absence of proof isn't proof of absence
1425790;1457391771;nubbins`;i also flatly disbelieve that mp sent A2, A..n to completely different nodes, because it's extremely, extremely relevant and didn't come out until his original argument shit the bed
1425791;1457391788;nubbins`;which by that time he'd been accused of thieving 17 btc
1425792;1457391795;mircea_popescu;a statement of fact is a statement of fact. it only becomes a proof if used in a reasoning. a fact and a proof are very different items : one's a realia, the other ideal.
1425793;1457391796;nubbins`;and generally royally fucking up
1425794;1457391806;asciilifeform;nubbins`: the most plausible scenario i can think of is that mircea_popescu's network has been boxed in by sybils.
1425795;1457391809;nubbins`;so, no, there's no Nm set of nodes.
1425796;1457391818;asciilifeform;aha, he's under a dome.
1425797;1457391823;asciilifeform;or however you say it in engl.
1425798;1457391837;davout;ftr i checked my own logs, and what they say is that my node heard about A1 around march 1st
1425799;1457391854;mircea_popescu;davout that was 2nd pass.
1425800;1457391865;davout;obviously
1425801;1457391872;nubbins`;^ 2nd pass = A1 or A2?
1425802;1457391874;mircea_popescu;its sudden appearance was discussed in these very logs - even for that brief interval before it made it into a block.
1425803;1457391883;davout;now, i'm quite curious to actually see A2...4 with my own eyes, and check those too
1425804;1457391899;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is obviously always possible. except it'd be bitbet, raqther than mp. i've been otherwise unmolested throughout.
1425805;1457391916;mircea_popescu;how are you going to see them ? they never made it.
1425806;1457391919;dooglus;davout: curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution << when mining block N, I have my pick of all the transactions broadcast while block N-1 was the newest block. some of those will have decent fees. transactions broadcast while block N-10 was the newest block that haven't already been mined are probably not very attractive to mine now. so why is block N including so many transactions created 10 blocks ago and so few created 1 block ag
1425807;1457391920;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as discussed earlier, it is uniquely easy to do this to bbet.
1425808;1457391925;nubbins`;the most plausible scenario i can think of is that, like dooglus concurred, a shit-fee tx took forever and then got relayed
1425809;1457391939;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no argument. in which it becomes entirely a bitbet's swamp, which bitbet has to drain.
1425810;1457391952;davout;mircea_popescu: i like to check stuff, maybe there's stuff to learn if i find out they somehow were relayed to my nodes at some point
1425811;1457391956;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is so far imho the best argument for why it had to be bbet's foot on the mine.
1425812;1457391961;mircea_popescu;i'm willing, on general goodwill, to help. i am certainly not willing to underwrite an open ended personal support for some venture i happen to manage.
1425813;1457391982;asciilifeform;i'm not a bbet shareholder or for that matter anything at all, but am willing to help
1425814;1457392012;mircea_popescu;it is unclear what the help'd be at the present time, however. i see exactly no signs of any of the observed behaviours discussed in teh qntra piece anymore.
1425815;1457392015;asciilifeform;and so far my verdict is that bbet was sybilled into going under a dome.
1425816;1457392029;asciilifeform;but it is entirely unclear to me that miners had anything to do with the observables here.
1425817;1457392032;mircea_popescu;but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.
1425818;1457392047;asciilifeform;(miners ~are~ misbehaving, as, e.g., i witnessed with my lee sedol bet. but this is separate.)
1425819;1457392059;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how does a transaction that shouldn't even be relayed GET relayed, and then mined, in short order ?
1425820;1457392081;mircea_popescu;davout> asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone << especially a 0fee one.
1425821;1457392083;asciilifeform;trivially: the sybilnet has a pet miner.
1425822;1457392090;mircea_popescu;but a pet miner is not good enough.
1425823;1457392093;asciilifeform;one of those block-a-day things.
1425824;1457392101;asciilifeform;perhaps the 'telco 241' or what was it.
1425825;1457392125;mircea_popescu;it is an intricate discussion, and one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail, but on the basis of what i have seen, it is my considered opinion that at the time in discussion, the miner cartel was running a ~half hour block delay thing.
1425826;1457392141;mircea_popescu;and they put it in, at the ~same second they "broadcast" it to the hanger-on nodes.
1425827;1457392147;nubbins`;"one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail" lololol.
1425828;1457392154;nubbins`;SFYL everyone
1425829;1457392155;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i assumed that you had nonpublic intel that led you to say this.
1425830;1457392165;davout;dooglus: so in other words: block witholding
1425831;1457392166;mircea_popescu;i also said as much at that exact time, in this very chan.
1425832;1457392176;asciilifeform;but i have to say, it is not supported by the incident described in the article, and so this is giving folks indigestion, fwiw.
1425833;1457392184;mircea_popescu;and there are VERY GOOD game theoretic reasons for a miner cartel to do this.
1425834;1457392189;asciilifeform;because it looked like '1,2,3, ....magic happens, ... --> ergo x.'
1425835;1457392194;mircea_popescu;specifically because it allows them the only possible moat against competition
1425836;1457392203;asciilifeform;and very clearly there are mighty good gametheoretical reasons for the cartel.
1425837;1457392210;asciilifeform;it is half of why i believed that a cartel exists.
1425838;1457392216;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform when you say "it is not supported", what do you mean ?
1425839;1457392224;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16477 @ 0.00053067 = 8.7438 BTC [-]
1425840;1457392232;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the incident with bbet, can be explained without miner cartel.
1425841;1457392239;asciilifeform;evil nodes suffice.
1425842;1457392246;mircea_popescu;specifically the "sudden mining of an old 0fee tx" ? how ?
1425843;1457392258;asciilifeform;you just need 1 coopted miner.
1425844;1457392263;mircea_popescu;"pet miner". if pet miner has 1% of hash, the observed phenomena occur 1% of cases.
1425845;1457392264;asciilifeform;of modest stature.
1425846;1457392272;mircea_popescu;and if it doesn't find a block that day ?
1425847;1457392275;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425817 <<< the "sybil testing" part is not documented in the qntra piece or did I miss it?
1425848;1457392275;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:07:12; mircea_popescu: but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.
1425849;1457392280;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what makes you think they haven't been squeezing the trigger for 100 shots
1425850;1457392283;asciilifeform;until this finally fired.
1425851;1457392296;asciilifeform;i can easily see that this pistol might shoot 1% of the time the trigger is pulled.
1425852;1457392296;mircea_popescu;i've been watching. this is 1.5 to maaaaybe 2.
1425853;1457392300;asciilifeform;this, perhaps, was 100th.
1425854;1457392314;mircea_popescu;i had been watching. this, and many other things.
1425855;1457392334;nubbins`;the all-seeing eye
1425856;1457392344;nubbins`;shoulda been watching the mempool size when you pushed out a 0-fee
1425857;1457392354;nubbins`;this, and many other things!
1425858;1457392413;nubbins`;!rate mircea_popescu -1 basic scammer, no accountability
1425859;1457392413;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/286b8513cf86618b
1425860;1457392421;mircea_popescu;but anyway, yes, if you believe 1 in 100, they yes, you don't need cartel, just persistent miner.
1425861;1457392449;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is my current picture.
1425862;1457392463;nubbins`;!v assbot:nubbins`.rate.mircea_popescu.-1:dbed451e84f3cd09d7ae986fa83201a1562d21d299af2619c70317009d6f5c28
1425863;1457392463;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -1 to -1 with note: basic scammer, no accountability
1425864;1457392476;nubbins`;wow, was -1 already? lel
1425865;1457392493;asciilifeform;nubbins` i think you already did this earlier
1425866;1457392533;nubbins`;right, yes, much less succinct
1425867;1457392543;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform by this logic tho, are there also 99 bitcoins we don't know about ? 99 linuxen ? 99 gccs that statically link ?
1425868;1457392555;nubbins`;the other one said something about "petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence"
1425869;1457392556;davout;thinking about it, I interpret the fact that A1 did not (on first attempt) get relayed to my node as indicative of nodes *not* being merely facades for some sort of 'super-node'
1425870;1457392570;mircea_popescu;davout how do you figure ?
1425871;1457392575;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: waiwut
1425872;1457392600;nubbins`;davout all it takes is a default setting of relayshitzerofeetransactions=FALSE
1425873;1457392602;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my hypothesis was that it suffices for the enemy to have a pistol that does this, e.g., per every N trigger pulls, and that the number came up.
1425874;1457392605;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know, and we for whatever reasons just see the 1 in 100 gunshot.
1425875;1457392608;asciilifeform;aha
1425876;1457392645;asciilifeform;much about the turdnet is stochastic, and so this is mega-unsurprise.
1425877;1457392674;davout;mircea_popescu: if everyone's actually the same node, broadcasting to one node is actually broadcasting to everyone, and it follows that it should have relayed properly. I guess it can also be the sign of your connections all actually being to the same sybilling node
1425878;1457392709;asciilifeform;davout: issue is that 'everyone knew' SOLELY for the purpose of rejecting a1...n but NOT for relay to miner!
1425879;1457392722;davout;nubbins`: for the tx not to relay at all it has to be 'false' for everyone
1425880;1457392728;asciilifeform;aha.
1425881;1457392735;mircea_popescu;davout i don't think you take my meaning. the situation that you imagine is, "hey, whatever, summertime and a bunch of us are at the beach". the situation in reality is, "a moroccan clan and some fat frenchies at the beach". guess how likely you are to a) find out the price of dried fruit and b) find out that you aren't finding out the price of dried fruit.
1425882;1457392746;mircea_popescu;or if you prefer, see phf's example with "my friend, the kgb  agent"
1425883;1457392762;nubbins`;or, if you prefer, here's some gibberish in lieu of content
1425884;1457392801;nubbins`;;;echo but where does that leave the 17 btc of your own funds that you put on bitbet's liability sheet?
1425885;1457392802;gribble;but where does that leave the 17 btc of your own funds that you put on bitbet's liability sheet?
1425886;1457392809;mircea_popescu;you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.
1425887;1457392814;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is sorta sheckley's hour of battle thing.
1425888;1457392820;mircea_popescu;in a sense.
1425889;1457392884;nubbins`;;;echo omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract
1425890;1457392884;gribble;omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract
1425891;1457392956;davout;asciilifeform: it might also very well be that most nodes use similar relay policies and that A1 simply didn't satisfy the relaying rules
1425892;1457392961;mircea_popescu;anyway, i've been thinking about your theory ever since, but i don't credit it asciilifeform. for one thing, it's unstable. seriously, supernode and miniminer ? it'd get torn apart.
1425893;1457392978;mircea_popescu;back in the day bitcoin mining was healthy, after a fashion, pools came and went. they've been stable for a long time now.
1425894;1457392985;asciilifeform;davout: if it did not satisfy relaying rules, WHERE DID IT COME FROM on day x !?
1425895;1457393008;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tell how not stable ?
1425896;1457393029;asciilifeform;some bastard is running 3000+ sybils. what's unstable here.
1425897;1457393031;mircea_popescu;because the other miners would have an incentive to destroy the miniminer's supernode, and there's jackl the miniminer could do to protect it.
1425898;1457393032;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>davout: if it did not satisfy relaying rules, WHERE DID IT COME FROM on day x !? << once the backlog was cleared, it satisfied relaying rules once again?
1425899;1457393039;mircea_popescu;a supernode only grows in the shade of miner cartel.
1425900;1457393042;asciilifeform;the other miners are amoeba ?
1425901;1457393067;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying what you're saying is provably impossible. i am saying to my eyes - it is very improbable.
1425902;1457393070;davout;asciilifeform: i do not claim I know where it came from, but do note that 'not being relayed by most nodes' is absolutely not conflicting with 'some dude rebroadcast it because he felt like it'
1425903;1457393077;asciilifeform;it is quite unclear to me that they have the brains of a teenager writing trojans in vb in murmansk.
1425904;1457393079;mircea_popescu;but i dunno how to carry that particular discussion in a way that'd dispose.
1425905;1457393082;asciilifeform;collectively.
1425906;1457393111;mircea_popescu;well... this is hard to argue against.
1425907;1457393117;nubbins`;so's a fraud accusation
1425908;1457393123;nubbins`;just as well to ignore
1425909;1457393139;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5} 
1425910;1457393141;mircea_popescu;it is also the first time i've seeing you err on THIS side ever before.
1425911;1457393149;mircea_popescu;so i guess you do balance, after all !
1425912;1457393163;nubbins`;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5} man, i think my zinger triggered that one
1425913;1457393171;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i conduct own 'intel', and yes, i don't have a radiotelescope like mircea_popescu's, only eyes.
1425914;1457393184;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425886 <<< well, I *am* running a node in the sense that I receive and broadcast transactions (with the occasional double-spend) just fine
1425915;1457393184;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.
1425916;1457393193;mircea_popescu;my telescope, in it being man made not god given, is not much more than a tool.
1425917;1457393204;mircea_popescu;davout that's what i mean by positive. yes, "it works".
1425918;1457393230;mircea_popescu;this is very different from the negative, "it doesn't not work".
1425919;1457393233;asciilifeform;at any rate i am broadly unconvinced that network sybil octopus needs any kind of miners other than a small share of standard hashrate.
1425920;1457393238;asciilifeform;in order to wreck things.
1425921;1457393278;asciilifeform;sybil octopus can get between victim and miners as a whole. and yes, this is enabled by the concentration of hash power in a shithole kingdom.
1425922;1457393278;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but in order to maintain itself!
1425923;1457393296;mircea_popescu;i mean... miners can just... ban it.
1425924;1457393306;asciilifeform;how do they identify the pseudopods ?
1425925;1457393314;mircea_popescu;"not our own" ?
1425926;1457393321;davout;mircea_popescu: well, it also "doesn't not work" in the sense that I sometimes have got transactions stuck because I'm a cheap zero-fee jew, that I got unstuck by issuing a double-spend
1425927;1457393330;asciilifeform;the miners gotta accept tx from white devils
1425928;1457393338;asciilifeform;because that's who does the bulk of tx-ing
1425929;1457393341;davout;now i'm unsure how to further go into negative bitcoin definition
1425930;1457393348;nubbins`;i'll leave you guys to your non-reality-based distractions, feel free to ping me if mp decides to address his fraud in any fashion.
1425931;1457393352;asciilifeform;they cannot plug the hose from their arse into their mouths and sustain themselves.
1425932;1457393356;mircea_popescu;davout i don't mean it as an attack or anything. and the question of exploring the negative is open now and will remain open until spec.
1425933;1457393359;nubbins`;asciilifeform i still need your mailing address
1425934;1457393369;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i will attend to this as soon as i get home.
1425935;1457393373;nubbins`;k
1425936;1457393374;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i am on the stake.
1425937;1457393389;nubbins`;hey, at least you didn't commit fraud
1425938;1457393406;davout;nubbins`: absence of proof isn't proof of absence yo
1425939;1457393410;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i'm about to commit gluttony and lust.
1425940;1457393410;davout;:D
1425941;1457393424;*;trinque fist-bumps asciilifeform
1425942;1457393482;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform even so, i don't think banning sybil reduces to "unable to talk to white devils".
1425943;1457393513;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect that they, supposing there were brains anywhere involved, ~tried~ to fight the octopus but eventually lost.
1425944;1457393543;mircea_popescu;i've encountered to signs of this animal, and this is such an unlikely event if there were a battle even ?
1425945;1457393551;asciilifeform;where, incidentally, do most tx fodder for cn miners originate ? i do not have good data for this.
1425946;1457393563;mircea_popescu;used to come straight out of bluematt's arse.
1425947;1457393575;asciilifeform;i am not in the habit of eating from arse.
1425948;1457393579;mircea_popescu;"lighting network"
1425949;1457393581;asciilifeform;so i have ~no data.
1425950;1457393583;mircea_popescu;or somesuch
1425951;1457393640;asciilifeform;at any rate, i have long seen nodes as an astonishingly weak point, which is why i pressed the whole pogo thing
1425952;1457393652;mircea_popescu;in any case : some degree of proxying is absolutely unavoidable in bitcoin relay , because ... ddos.
1425953;1457393667;asciilifeform;the whole orchestra does no one any good if there is reliably amoebic scum between your console and the free world.
1425954;1457393676;mircea_popescu;well yeah, had we had the pogos deployed last year or somesuch this might have been a very different story.
1425955;1457393688;mircea_popescu;but... no pogos. because no static linking in gcc. because etc.
1425956;1457393712;asciilifeform;the sad part is that i fixed pretty much all of the cthonic hell-pits that prevented pogo,
1425957;1457393716;asciilifeform;aside from the two listed earlier.
1425958;1457393727;asciilifeform;(the blkindex and mempool exhaustion)
1425959;1457393738;mircea_popescu;re prev point : so yeah, most strong nodes will have multiple interfaces they look at. so most people (who know, as opposed of feeling like they know) aren't necessariyl surprised by ~some degree~ of sybiling.
1425960;1457393759;mircea_popescu;which is what everyone (at least previously) told himself is happening to go to bed and not wake screaming
1425961;1457393771;asciilifeform;recently i contemplated doing a rotor port to a chinese tv box, 1G of ram, available for ~30 usd in qty. infinite. but when the fuck would i do this, a student ought to do this
1425962;1457393778;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, don't feel bad, one can only try.
1425963;1457393788;asciilifeform;i have 256 fingers but they are all in some orifice.
1425964;1457393817;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'g' is another angle of attack against the octopus.
1425965;1457393821;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm sure nubbins` will be done derping idly, dump the ugly broad, get the fuck out of the meaningless paper products shuffling, get back in math school and generally make himself useful. any day now.
1425966;1457393821;asciilifeform;which is actually why i invented it.
1425967;1457393838;mircea_popescu;looking forward to the nubbins 1g box so he can be a lord on his own merit for once.
1425968;1457393869;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you said chix can be taught anything. teach >= one to partake in this.
1425969;1457393878;asciilifeform;i would much appreciate.
1425970;1457393892;asciilifeform;ever see picture of the 19th c. german one-man band things ?
1425971;1457393897;mircea_popescu;do i charge s.nsa ? what's the shareholders think ?
1425972;1457393898;asciilifeform;a bloke with drum, tuba, etc.
1425973;1457393903;mircea_popescu;the long suffering s.nsa shareholders lol
1425974;1457393904;asciilifeform;that's me right now.
1425975;1457393965;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i almost forgot that nubbins` was a math grad!?
1425976;1457393971;asciilifeform;but hm, iirc he was.
1425977;1457394083;*;asciilifeform will bbl, removing stake from arse, driving home.
1425978;1457394217;cazalla;now this is podracing! nice logs
1425979;1457394275;pete_dushenski;podracing ? like the episode i thing ?
1425980;1457394300;cazalla;it's a me me pete_dushenski
1425981;1457394324;mircea_popescu;curious how long before alf buys one of those self-driving cars so he can irc while he idles.
1425982;1457394342;mircea_popescu;;;ud podracing
1425983;1457394343;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pod+Racing | When you jerk off two dicks at once. The dicks must be on each side, so it looks like you're pod racing.
1425984;1457394358;mircea_popescu;no homo.
1425985;1457394359;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2543 @ 0.00053211 = 1.3532 BTC [+] {2} 
1425986;1457394362;cazalla;ahah
1425987;1457394372;pete_dushenski;wasn't there a southpark about that ?/
1425988;1457394385;pete_dushenski;kyle's dad and a hot tub or something
1425989;1457394410;cazalla;nfi, have not watched many of the more recent seasons
1425990;1457394415;cazalla;don't recall that one in anycase
1425991;1457394447;nubbins`;"dump the ugly broad" is the best popescu can come up with as a rebuttal to legitimate accusations of fraud
1425992;1457394454;nubbins`;here's a quip for you, ya fuckin idiot
1425993;1457394463;nubbins`;[12:27:57]  <nubbins`>look: true or false: mp is fraudulently entering 17btc into bitbet's liabilities
1425994;1457394463;nubbins`;[12:28:04]  <kakobrekla>correct
1425995;1457394463;nubbins`;[12:28:23]  <kakobrekla>i am not arguing that.
1425996;1457394493;*;shinohai sighs
1425997;1457394516;nubbins`;sigh as loud as you want, he's not gonna read it or respond to it in any way
1425998;1457394526;nubbins`;because he's jsut a scammer
1425999;1457394554;nubbins`;always was shady, always was more about bluster than substance, but this abandons pretense
1426000;1457394629;pete_dushenski;cazalla: aha! http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Two_Guys_Naked_in_a_Hot_Tub
1426001;1457394631;assbot;Two Guys Naked in a Hot Tub - South Park Archives - Wikia ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3odpI )
1426002;1457394649;pete_dushenski;"Randy asks Gerald if he'd ever had a gay fantasy and Gerald explains that he has always thought of watching another guy masturbate. The fantasy then becomes a reality."
1426003;1457394676;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425993
1426004;1457394676;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:27:57]  <nubbins`>look: true or false: mp is fraudulently entering 17btc into bitbet's liabilities
1426005;1457394679;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425994
1426006;1457394679;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:04]  <kakobrekla>correct
1426007;1457394681;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425995
1426008;1457394681;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:23]  <kakobrekla>i am not arguing that.
1426009;1457394685;nubbins`;;;echo just for you mp
1426010;1457394686;gribble;just for you mp
1426011;1457394706;cazalla;fwiw, and isn't worth much, i think nubbins` has legit cause for complaint, shame to see the fangs and then venom flow though
1426012;1457394725;cazalla;pete_dushenski, never seen pod racing used in that context though, guess ill find a new me me
1426013;1457394726;nubbins`;cazalla understand that in the face of abject fantasy, i have no choice
1426014;1457394739;pete_dushenski;cazalla: gotta have fangs and venom, or else it's just huggy reddit...
1426015;1457394777;nubbins`;asciilifeform and others who have partnered up with mp should keep a close eye on things from here on out
1426016;1457394785;nubbins`;kako's straight-up getting scammed
1426017;1457394847;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00053622 = 10.0809 BTC [+]
1426018;1457394858;danielpbarron;nubbins`, we get it already. I don't think spamming and circumventing other people's ignore help your case..
1426019;1457394878;nubbins`;i don't think you do get it
1426020;1457394893;danielpbarron;what should I do? /part ?
1426021;1457394915;nubbins`;no, you should stick around and say what you think
1426022;1457394922;nubbins`;precious little of that happening
1426023;1457394934;cazalla;pete_dushenski, sure, but sometimes a dry bite is all that's needed
1426024;1457394949;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Are you thankful? - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/are-you-thankful/
1426025;1457394949;danielpbarron;on that note..
1426026;1457394967;nubbins`;cazalla you'll notice that mp still has yet to address the fraud claims that kako's verified
1426027;1457394969;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28307 @ 0.00053622 = 15.1788 BTC [+]
1426028;1457394970;*;pete_dushenski can't help but wonder if nubbins` has s.mpoe or s.bbet shorts. and if he didn't before, is now looking . if he just wants to "fleece some money out of [mp]", why not eh ?
1426029;1457394993;pete_dushenski;danielpbarron: glad to see you're blogging btw :)
1426030;1457394993;nubbins`;pete_dushenski that well's gone dry. mp only pays hangers-on in shares these days
1426031;1457395001;danielpbarron;and if my wwwtron dies again, i just archived it..
1426032;1457395174;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: but surely you could find someone who would sell you options
1426033;1457395178;nubbins`;pete_dushenski i'm long s.mg!
1426034;1457395192;pete_dushenski;last!
1426035;1457395206;nubbins`;i wonder how mp's gonna cash out my stock warrant if he's got me on ignore?
1426036;1457395227;nubbins`;"this stock warrant is valid forever or until you are mean to me"
1426037;1457395254;cazalla;nubbins`, mp did say you are more than free to have another lord relay any messages
1426038;1457395259;hanbot;jurov> !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity << jurov seriously, is yest/today's spewage what sanity is to you? are you out of yer mind?
1426039;1457395269;nubbins`;cazalla i care little for what that scammer says
1426040;1457395274;*;danielpbarron is fairly heavily invested in Eulora via his character who is one of the richest players in the world
1426041;1457395274;nubbins`;he's free to wrap his head in plastic
1426042;1457395291;nubbins`;hanbot weren't you told to shut up?
1426043;1457395298;nubbins`;adults talking here
1426044;1457395305;cazalla;nubbins`, sure, but now you're misrepresenting other issues
1426045;1457395316;nubbins`;cazalla like..?
1426046;1457395331;jurov;hanbot surprise surprise i happen to agree with the "spewage" ant i asked similar questions
1426047;1457395344;nubbins`;surprise surprise, jurov's questions were ignored too
1426048;1457395346;cazalla;he won't cash your stock warrant as he has you on ignore? it's clear such a request can be relayed to him if required
1426049;1457395364;nubbins`;cazalla lighten up pal!
1426050;1457395375;cazalla;nubbins`, tell me what you really think of me! lol
1426051;1457395385;nubbins`;i think you're a raw cunt
1426052;1457395396;hanbot;jurov you asked questions. all i see from nubbins is ~24hrs of rabbling, at pretty much anyone who tries to engage him.
1426053;1457395403;nubbins`;but that's just one man's opinion. liked your writing on qntra
1426054;1457395419;nubbins`;hanbot most adult speak sounds like gibberish to children
1426055;1457395423;cazalla;nubbins`, raw cunt is quite endearing to an australian :)
1426056;1457395424;punkman;imho, bitbet can decide to spend its future profits on whatever they want, advertising, servers, or 100% bonuses to random bettors. it doesn't make me want to buy more bitbet shares of course.
1426057;1457395461;jurov;hanbot rabbling is better than silence
1426058;1457395470;nubbins`;hanbot you'll notice that the adults in the chan actually engaged me in conversation: jurov, kako, alf, and others. it's only mp that's wagging his jaw and QQing
1426059;1457395480;pete_dushenski;;;ud qqing
1426060;1457395481;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=qqing | Top Definition. qqing. Whining/crying about something. From QQ. "Stop being sexist!" "Stop qqing." by A Person Who You Don't Know October 27, 2013. 13 7.
1426061;1457395483;nubbins`;fucking embarassing for both of you, really
1426062;1457395485;hanbot;okay, but is it -sanity-?!
1426063;1457395491;nubbins`;you're not fit to judge that
1426064;1457395544;nubbins`;pete_dushenski 2 big eyes w/ tears leaking out
1426065;1457395548;jurov;hanbot so tell us your opinion, is it sane what mircea did, without even telling kakobrekla, when contract demands unanimous agreement on such thing?
1426066;1457395560;danielpbarron;nubbins`, i'm trying to give you an out to the negative rating i fear i will eventually have to give you, and I don't mean that as a threat, just that at a certain point what you are doing is spamming, and i like to read this log every day and have the power to at least turn the nozzle two clicks towards the off position
1426067;1457395569;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: makes me think of japanimation
1426068;1457395573;mircea_popescu;cazalla everyone has very legit cause for complaint. the problem is that [the subsection of everyone who thinks the us is the world] imagines that the thing to do when you got legit cause of complaint is to try and identify a kulak and get him to admit his mistakes.
1426069;1457395575;nubbins`;danielpbarron if it's any comfort, i usually come here in bursts
1426070;1457395592;mircea_popescu;no idea why he imagines that'll carry, but whatever. it ain't gonna. he doesn't like bitcoin - he can either fix it or stick to cad.
1426071;1457395610;nubbins`;i thought it was mp who doesn't like bitcoin
1426072;1457395624;nubbins`;because it's been forked by chinese miners, his exact words were
1426073;1457395635;mircea_popescu;wanna complain, go negrate the set of power rangers that made this idiocy possible, da fuck already.
1426074;1457395644;nubbins`;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47586
1426075;1457395645;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCR1jt )
1426076;1457395658;hanbot;jurov hehe what're you doing with such loaded questions? mind you, i'm not suggesting you're wrong for disagreeing or asking or anything of the sort. i'm just curious about your judgment of what i see as a guy on full tilt.
1426077;1457395676;jurov;i like guys on full tilt!
1426078;1457395684;hanbot;lol
1426079;1457395691;nubbins`;danielpbarron also, as a lord, your clicks don't put me towards the off position at all
1426080;1457395692;mircea_popescu;i like guys on fult tilt too, is the weird thing.
1426081;1457395711;danielpbarron;hm.. idk if that's ever been tested actually
1426082;1457395714;mircea_popescu;;;seen eskimobob
1426083;1457395714;gribble;eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <EskimoBob> no idea how executions are shown on btct
1426084;1457395728;mircea_popescu;wow it's been 3 years already ? too long, even.
1426085;1457395731;nubbins`;danielpbarron L1: 1
1426086;1457395744;danielpbarron;yeah but ability to self voice is through ~L2~
1426087;1457395754;nubbins`;jurov notice how hanbot didn't answer your question
1426088;1457395769;nubbins`;because it's obviously not sane but she can't just SAY SO
1426089;1457395772;*;nubbins` chuckles
1426090;1457395784;nubbins`;imagine finding yourself in such a spot
1426091;1457395795;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Ethereum to top $1 billion market cap before 2017 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/#b22
1426092;1457395800;mircea_popescu;jurov contract demands unanimous agreement on dispositions of bitbet. if it's sold, say. it doesn't demand, nor has in practice been ever the case that its sought in all matters.
1426093;1457395819;nubbins`;jurov ask him about the putting a private expense on the books! see if he dodges it! ;p
1426094;1457395821;mircea_popescu;i had no idea he even wants or wanted the liability - but my guess is no, he didn't.
1426095;1457395849;jurov;3.2h solemnly concerns *expenses*
1426096;1457395852;mircea_popescu;he also has had at all points ~0 say in how bets are resolved, for instance.
1426097;1457395881;nubbins`;maybe explicitly ask about the inputs of B: whose money? BitBet's? MP's?
1426098;1457395882;mircea_popescu;"t, that all expenses charged against BitBet will exclusively reflect expenditure in good faith resulting from the operation of its business"
1426099;1457395901;nubbins`;it seems you need to ask explicit, short, direct questions to allow mp's mind to absorb them
1426100;1457395902;mircea_popescu;this is what this is.
1426101;1457395922;nubbins`;lol he selectively quoted so bad that he got half a word at the start.
1426102;1457395930;nubbins`;quote the whole 3.2 (h) maybe?
1426103;1457395943;nubbins`;where it says you can't just donate 17 btc to the public and expect bitbet to pick up the tab?
1426104;1457395953;jurov;Well. 1.who and when decided to send zerofee tx 2. how is that evver acting in good faith?
1426105;1457395982;mircea_popescu;how is this open to your inquiry ?
1426106;1457395990;nubbins`;^ stop asking questions, in other words
1426107;1457395997;nubbins`;how dare you call a fraudster a fraudster
1426108;1457396008;nubbins`;it was his right to introduce a private expense to the business
1426109;1457396011;jurov;*rolls eyes*
1426110;1457396014;nubbins`;his right as, uh.. whatever he is
1426111;1457396014;mircea_popescu;yes ?
1426112;1457396027;nubbins`;asasshole in a suit who can't count
1426113;1457396056;jurov;Yes.
1426114;1457396081;mircea_popescu;you think who and when decided what in a private corp is open to your inquiry because you have the ability to roll your eyes ?
1426115;1457396093;jurov;Yes.
1426116;1457396100;mircea_popescu;this is nice, but i don't credit it.
1426117;1457396119;BingoBoingo;<pete_dushenski> kyle's dad and a hot tub or something << Kyle's dad and Randy's dad. 2nd part of 3 that includes Jew Scouts
1426118;1457396120;nubbins`;lol
1426119;1457396133;nubbins`;jurov pathetic :(
1426120;1457396134;jurov;Others who are directly involved in the agreement may credit it.
1426121;1457396145;jurov;Or not, of course.
1426122;1457396158;mircea_popescu;i guess then they can answer or w/e.
1426123;1457396173;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: bingo.
1426124;1457396219;nubbins`;well, i guess this is what MPEx has been reduced to
1426125;1457396226;nubbins`;scam exchange
1426126;1457396233;nubbins`;no accounting standards
1426127;1457396243;nubbins`;sign the statements, don't sign em, whatever
1426128;1457396248;nubbins`;your money, my money, who cares
1426129;1457396252;mircea_popescu;jurov> hanbot rabbling is better than silence <<< not really. see the jirinovski problem. an idiot spewing makes the discussion that much harder for saner people with meaningful things to say.
1426130;1457396276;nubbins`;nobody seems to have anything meaningful to say but me
1426131;1457396290;nubbins`;and jurov
1426132;1457396336;jurov;mircea_popescu: well, if the discussion got so hard now, where are all the negrates?
1426133;1457396351;mircea_popescu;what do you mean ?
1426134;1457396378;jurov;if #b-a thinks nubbins` should not have a voice, let's negrate him
1426135;1457396396;nubbins`;lel
1426136;1457396403;mircea_popescu;looky, a republic is not a democracy no matter on what face you turn the democracy pebble.
1426137;1457396406;nubbins`;mp did negrate me, if you'll recall
1426138;1457396412;nubbins`;for all the good it did, being a lord and all.
1426139;1457396424;nubbins`;turns out he can only do so much
1426140;1457396437;nubbins`;doubt he ever thought his clubhouse'd end up like this
1426141;1457396478;nubbins`;if i had a satoshi for every time mp said "looky" when he'd lost an argument, i'd be able to donate a tx fee to bitbet
1426142;1457396490;nubbins`;^ that one was for you hanbot
1426143;1457396498;nubbins`;call me, k?
1426144;1457396627;mircea_popescu;but that aside, i did mean about the ugly broad and the general waster attitude. who knows, maybe discovering how little credit he carries with the people he likes and who he flattered himself into seeing as equals provides the much needed impetuus to make something of himself.
1426145;1457396657;mircea_popescu;this whole "nubbins, the guy who made some funny observations" thing is certainly punching below his weight.
1426146;1457396699;nubbins`;ad hominem attacks: often used by people who have valid arguments and can defend them on merit alone
1426147;1457396704;nubbins`;wait...
1426148;1457396732;nubbins`;FTR, calling my wife an ugly broad hurts just about as much as calling my left elbow a bicycle
1426149;1457396743;nubbins`;meanwhile, MP's girl with calves thicker than pete's thighs
1426150;1457396767;pete_dushenski;notpossibru
1426151;1457396768;hanbot;jurov i'll be doing that; ignoring him clears the shit from my client but not the nice logs, and after two attempts to get the guy to speak rather'n spew (just mine, mind you), we find the guy figures he's my "elder" because i asked some questions about gentoo, of all things.
1426152;1457396771;*;BingoBoingo awaits allegations of lasers
1426153;1457396774;nubbins`;pete_dushenski photographic proof!!
1426154;1457396789;nubbins`;http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/tri2.jpg
1426155;1457396792;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCT1Ip )
1426156;1457396811;hanbot;anyway i'm not sure if i oughta take jurov's rating as a wholesale endorsement. advise as ya like.
1426157;1457396812;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: let's just say i coulda done long track speed skating ;)
1426158;1457396816;nubbins`;heh
1426159;1457396820;nubbins`;never too late
1426160;1457396865;nubbins`;hanbot i'll take that as an apology, you're probably not so bad underneath that rough exterior
1426161;1457397014;shinohai;I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.
1426162;1457397051;nubbins`;sucks about the scammer she's shacked up with huh
1426163;1457397086;*;danielpbarron sighs
1426164;1457397090;danielpbarron;!rated nubbins`
1426165;1457397090;assbot;You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: He's good for a trade in the 1 bitcoin range..
1426166;1457397097;danielpbarron;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1426167;1457397098;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 10 via 12 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1426168;1457397101;danielpbarron;!v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-1:5a354a1ffe0871d83743d45093803fc184c2e412a326a17fe4b049761b7be9ad
1426169;1457397101;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not
1426170;1457397279;nubbins`;can he?
1426171;1457397297;danielpbarron;well that was only 2 clicks, 8 more to go
1426172;1457397302;danielpbarron;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1426173;1457397302;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 8 via 12 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1426174;1457397307;nubbins`;8+1
1426175;1457397319;danielpbarron;that remains to be seen
1426176;1457397349;danielpbarron;anyway, easy go easy come; I think you have some valid grievances, just going about it the wrong way
1426177;1457397376;nubbins`;hey, ya don't like the argument, it's your choice to tune it out. doesn't make it invalid
1426178;1457397400;danielpbarron;i don't like you abusing the bots to get around an ignore
1426179;1457397413;nubbins`;out of curiosity, what's the "right way" to go about airing my grievances?
1426180;1457397426;nubbins`;danielpbarron in fairness nanotube probably doesn't like it either
1426181;1457397445;danielpbarron;write a blog article, deedbot your formal accusation, say whatever ~once~ in the log (not 20 times)
1426182;1457397453;trinque;probably not firing off a "fuck you" to everyone you can think of in one conversation, l0l
1426183;1457397456;trinque;free to do it
1426184;1457397457;nubbins`;i did actually deed my formal accusation.
1426185;1457397459;trinque;but it's not persuasive
1426186;1457397480;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424735
1426187;1457397480;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:19; nubbins`: also deed-ified here: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
1426188;1457397480;danielpbarron;i can actually did yours for you if you don't feel like figuring it out (it's very simple)
1426189;1457397496;danielpbarron;deed yours*
1426190;1457397496;nubbins`;sure, go ahead, it's here: http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
1426191;1457397497;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
1426192;1457397508;nubbins`;you owe me a satoshi if it feeds the same address as mine
1426193;1457397526;danielpbarron;deedbot- http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCF2950F23C844002
1426194;1457397528;assbot;Public Key Server -- Get "0xcf2950f23c844002 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCU6A2 )
1426195;1457397529;deedbot-;Bad URL or network outage.
1426196;1457397541;trinque;erm no
1426197;1457397573;trinque;I would bet his key's already in there
1426198;1457397580;trinque;deedbot-: http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
1426199;1457397580;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
1426200;1457397583;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1426201;1457397585;trinque;^
1426202;1457397616;nubbins`;what's the url for the deed log again?
1426203;1457397617;nubbins`;been so long
1426204;1457397620;trinque;deedbot.org
1426205;1457397620;danielpbarron;deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
1426206;1457397621;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
1426207;1457397623;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1426208;1457397623;nubbins`;i think i last used it three iterations ago
1426209;1457397627;danielpbarron;there ya go
1426210;1457397632;danielpbarron;ah crap
1426211;1457397637;trinque;nubbins`: been about a year and a month, and I don't have any plans to shut it down
1426212;1457397641;trinque;danielpbarron: I will remove the dupe
1426213;1457397644;nubbins`;rad
1426214;1457397653;*;danielpbarron hangs head in shame
1426215;1457397655;nubbins`;trinque good to hear
1426216;1457397665;nubbins`;danielpbarron guess i coulda done it myself huh
1426217;1457397673;nubbins`;what's the refresh on the frontend?
1426218;1457397677;BingoBoingo;;;google hugelkultur
1426219;1457397678;gribble;hugelkultur: the ultimate raised garden beds - Richsoil.com: <http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/>; The Many Benefits of Hugelkultur | Permaculture Magazine: <http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/many-benefits-hugelkultur>; Hugelkultur - Inspiration Green: <http://www.inspirationgreen.com/hugelkultur.html>
1426220;1457397679;danielpbarron;yes that is what i told you around the time you just linked from the log
1426221;1457397688;nubbins`;1 block i guess huh
1426222;1457397697;trinque;nubbins`: it'll fart at the hour, upload at the 15
1426223;1457397716;nubbins`;great
1426224;1457397747;nubbins`;anyway, my deedify script generated a pubkey of 1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
1426225;1457397754;nubbins`;that was compatible with one of the early iterations
1426226;1457397757;nubbins`;wonder if it's still the case
1426227;1457397773;*;nubbins` awaits with bated breath
1426228;1457397784;danielpbarron;i think it depends if any other deeds get bundled with it
1426229;1457397789;nubbins`;right
1426230;1457397794;trinque;this one sha256's the bundle (all messages of that hour separated by single \n), uses that as privkey
1426231;1457397794;nubbins`;anyway, i deeded the thing myself earlier
1426232;1457397799;nubbins`;and posted the PGP-signed text in chan
1426233;1457397806;nubbins`;if that's not good enough for mp, well, bully.
1426234;1457397826;nubbins`;he can wait for the new deed and ignore that one too
1426235;1457397967;nubbins`;maybe toss a few more gem insults my way about my radiant wife or the fact that i'm financially unencumbered and spend my days in leisure
1426236;1457398016;*;pete_dushenski off to train the next generation of would-be long track speedskaters
1426237;1457398045;*;nubbins` off to smoke weed and count money
1426238;1457398333;hanbot;!v assbot:hanbot.rate.nubbins`.-1:001b32f62b0e9367cf7b1300337c3a35571273ba07885b35c1bd4fc70e900e0b
1426239;1457398333;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -1 for nubbins` with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole. See http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424682 .
1426240;1457398409;asciilifeform;oh buggerall.
1426241;1457398417;asciilifeform;what does gentoo even have to do with it?!
1426242;1457398422;asciilifeform;nubbins`...?
1426243;1457398442;BingoBoingo;alf has boat, hanbot has dike, /me wonders what next metaphor for the waters BTC precariously insulates from will be
1426244;1457398459;hanbot;lol
1426245;1457398464;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: btc is the good ship aurora.
1426246;1457398471;asciilifeform;y'know, the one with the cement bottom.
1426247;1457398478;asciilifeform;in the leningrad harbor.
1426248;1457398503;trinque;lol
1426249;1457398517;BingoBoingo;ah
1426250;1457398546;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heRWXcIkAFo << oblig.
1426251;1457398547;assbot;Что тебе снится, крейсер "Аврора" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyYOgT )
1426252;1457398618;shinohai;dam
1426253;1457398653;asciilifeform;'what are you dreaming, cruiser aurora '
1426254;1457398701;asciilifeform;http://www.amara.org/en/videos/PQ5XOPWfQ08Y/en/100549 << english.
1426255;1457398702;assbot;What are you dreaming of, Cruiser Aurora? with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyZ6Ez )
1426256;1457398707;asciilifeform;anyway.
1426257;1457398908;BingoBoingo;In other news, is that a dick on the right side? https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Geomar-43-days-640x410.png
1426258;1457398909;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCW5UV )
1426259;1457399083;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426161 << fwiw, some of the folks i showed that picture to, i suspect, literally creamed their pants
1426260;1457399083;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 00:30:14; shinohai: I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.
1426261;1457399132;asciilifeform;in unrelated nyooz, my rom emulator is here.
1426262;1457399138;asciilifeform;and holy shit, the chassis is ~steel~
1426263;1457399144;asciilifeform;'made in usa'
1426264;1457399145;shinohai;O.o
1426265;1457399149;asciilifeform;i can almost imagine i live in 1980.
1426266;1457399163;shinohai;pics?
1426267;1457399252;asciilifeform;https://www.eetools.com/images/products/eerom_accessaries.jpg
1426268;1457399254;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCWAP1 )
1426269;1457399254;asciilifeform;^ it
1426270;1457399259;asciilifeform;pretty common unit.
1426271;1457399295;shinohai;That looks fun. :D
1426272;1457399511;shinohai;BingoBoingo: did you see what they called in to get that hamplanet off the truck today? https://vid.me/2Z7A
1426273;1457399513;assbot;2016-03-07 170122000 4A542 iOS - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCX1bW )
1426274;1457399544;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15146 @ 0.00053398 = 8.0877 BTC [-]
1426275;1457399544;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Can you give me a quick ;tldw
1426276;1457399607;shinohai;'twas a special "HEavy Rescue Unit"
1426277;1457399613;shinohai;I kek'd
1426278;1457399639;BingoBoingo;lol
1426279;1457399656;mod6;haha
1426280;1457399724;shinohai;I almost felt sorry for the cops tasked with detaining her.
1426281;1457399753;BingoBoingo;she prolly pooped in the car
1426282;1457400125;shinohai;I was actually surprised the roof of the truck didn't collapse under the weight.
1426283;1457400616;BingoBoingo;Beetus https://i.sli.mg/0fDvlN.png
1426284;1457400617;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3z9DU )
1426285;1457400832;shinohai;Well at least you won't have to worry about her running around on you!
1426286;1457401557;mod6;haha shinohai
1426287;1457401632;asciilifeform;mod6: mega-l0gz
1426288;1457401884;mircea_popescu;<assbot> with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole <<< wait, did i just get called a fat homosexual woman ?
1426289;1457401988;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> i can almost imagine i live in 1980. << the things one yearns for
1426290;1457402009;*;mircea_popescu thought the 80s fucking sucked. then again, back then hadn't seen the 90s. 00s. 10s. etc.
1426291;1457402043;mircea_popescu;shinohai no, that is PRECISELY what you'll have to worry about : her running around ON you.
1426292;1457402046;asciilifeform;everyone thinks this. until the world is replaced with brittle plastic.
1426293;1457402052;asciilifeform;and half-working machinery.
1426294;1457402079;mircea_popescu;absence of cool is no cooling of absence tho. 80s still fucking sucked.
1426295;1457402106;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45410 @ 0.00053198 = 24.1572 BTC [-] {2} 
1426296;1457402121;mircea_popescu;what was it, cher on every channel and the velvet fog on every radio ?
1426297;1457402664;*;asciilifeform goes, and looks up, what was a cher, and what is a velvet fog.
1426298;1457402727;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mod6: mega-l0gz << oh yeah, been reading all day.
1426299;1457402735;BingoBoingo;cher is a sort of kaiju
1426300;1457402751;asciilifeform;wats a kaiju
1426301;1457402756;*;BingoBoingo assumes velvet fog is a tropical illness
1426302;1457402777;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: a kaiju is one of those japanese monster from the films with the people in the suits
1426303;1457402797;mircea_popescu;sometimes if you crack open an acaju nut, a tiny girl comes out, and you feed her various comestibles and eventually grows up into a slavegirl.
1426304;1457402797;asciilifeform;godzilla?
1426305;1457402799;BingoBoingo;godzilla, cher, et al
1426306;1457402802;BingoBoingo;yes
1426307;1457402804;mircea_popescu;and this my dear alf is how slaves are born on the planet gor.
1426308;1457402818;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought this was how you got momotaro, the peach pit samurai.
1426309;1457402823;asciilifeform;who slays ogres.
1426310;1457402826;mircea_popescu;also.
1426311;1457402881;mircea_popescu;;;google velvet fog best of in autoplay format that can't be turned off. ever.
1426312;1457402882;gribble;Preview Unreal Engine 4.11 Preview [Archive] - Unreal Engine Forums: <https://forums.unrealengine.com/archive/index.php/t-94321.html>; 2015 Chrysler 300: <https://www.chrysler.com/assets/pdf/brochures/2015_chrysler_300_reveal.pdf>; Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - Zone Doubt (aka Surreal Я Us): <http://www.alestrel.blogspot.com/2006_11_01_alestrel_archive.html>
1426313;1457402890;mircea_popescu;holy shit ?!
1426314;1457403009;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, cher was a teenage pop singer chick that successfully pivoted into a sort of softcore burlesque career pre dita von teese. also married to sony bono.
1426315;1457403080;mircea_popescu;and the velvet fog aka mel torme was this very soppy lounge act / singer mostly on the old vegas circuit.
1426316;1457404607;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147450 @ 0.00053198 = 78.4405 BTC [-]
1426317;1457405334;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1426318;1457405343;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.9, vol: 5713.29998851 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.216, vol: 7342.69249 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.65, vol: 14857.74689053 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 3.54660738 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.047083, vol: 46801.24770000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.288, vol: 1164.83181327 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.484368, vol: 34.89035527 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1426319;1457405600;BingoBoingo;;;more
1426320;1457405600;gribble;417.001259016
1426321;1457405705;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1947 @ 0.00053397 = 1.0396 BTC [+] {2} 
1426322;1457407100;mircea_popescu;and in other news, treeforts! http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3t0uiZva01r4p8klo1_1280.jpg
1426323;1457407101;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ypu459 )
1426324;1457407276;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: One nugget you may have missed in the log shitting is that weather permitting this week I will attempt to do the tree to stake conversion for the art
1426325;1457407289;mircea_popescu;whassat ?
1426326;1457407357;BingoBoingo;Well, there's a ~15-20 foot tree that grew up as a weed and was neglected. Before taking it all the way down will convert it to pointed stake as I believe alf suggested as an idea in much earlier discussion
1426327;1457407417;mircea_popescu;lmao.
1426328;1457407431;mircea_popescu;inb4 city fine for zoning violation.
1426329;1457407449;mircea_popescu;but bonus points if you do conversion with really large pencil sharpener
1426330;1457407455;BingoBoingo;Will only stay in that condition long enough to take a picture.
1426331;1457407485;BingoBoingo;Was going to do it with arm powered crosscut saw, but probably picking up a reciprocating saw tomorrow.
1426332;1457407489;*;BingoBoingo is getting old
1426333;1457407500;BingoBoingo;Can't landscape amish style forever
1426334;1457407573;asciilifeform;betcha tepes had a giant sharpener.
1426335;1457407627;*;BingoBoingo hasn't sharpened pencils with sharpener in a long time.
1426336;1457407683;hanbot;BingoBoingo stick a ragdoll-Muhammad on it!
1426337;1457407687;BingoBoingo;lol
1426338;1457407703;BingoBoingo;someone around here prolly makes ragdoll muhammads
1426339;1457408300;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426328 << mebbe he's zoned for impalement, l0l!
1426340;1457408300;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 03:23:51; mircea_popescu: inb4 city fine for zoning violation.
1426341;1457408430;danielpbarron;http://danielpbarron.com/pawns/
1426342;1457408434;assbot;pawns – Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/21UsGNi )
1426343;1457408451;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well just down the hill from here there is an arena where motor vehicles and farm equipment engage in gladatorial combat
1426344;1457408654;BingoBoingo;Anyways here the only zoning ordinances seriously enforced without neighbor complaints are those on commercial signage, because marketing sucks
1426345;1457408999;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36723 @ 0.00053374 = 19.6005 BTC [-] {3} 
1426346;1457409060;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3277 @ 0.00053173 = 1.7425 BTC [-]
1426347;1457409487;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00053089 = 13.1926 BTC [-] {4} 
1426348;1457409540;TomServo;Pretty disappointing show 'round here today.
1426349;1457409583;mod6;got that right
1426350;1457410712;ben_vulpes;TomServo: in what way?
1426351;1457410870;TomServo;ben_vulpes: I'm not even sure where to start.
1426352;1457410915;TomServo;Lotza motza balls hanging out there.
1426353;1457411022;BingoBoingo;lol
1426354;1457411053;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b148
1426355;1457411343;*;asciilifeform rereads log
1426356;1457411354;asciilifeform;holy shit did nubbins` really put 10 on alphago ?!
1426357;1457411364;asciilifeform;out of spite ??
1426358;1457411372;asciilifeform;(how does this work?)
1426359;1457411878;ben_vulpes;[02:12:30] [mircea_popescu] so then, upon advice, i sent it separately. and it went through within half hour. AFTER WHICH somehow the txn was magically found, and… this time it wasn't dropped from mempool ? what changed since last week, mempool is even bigger now. << most underexamined line in this whole saga to date.
1426360;1457411902;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420397 << tastes great woth
1426361;1457411902;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 18:06:28; mircea_popescu: you know how it sometimes happens that a platoon gets sent on a random patrol, ends up surprising a moving contingent of enemy, a flurry of radioing and reinforcing and whatnot happens and suddenly the front is in a new place ?
1426362;1457411904;ben_vulpes;with*
1426363;1457411919;ben_vulpes;*undeservedly underexamined*
1426364;1457412088;ben_vulpes;what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances
1426365;1457412203;ben_vulpes;near as i can tell, mircea_popescu went to pop a mining cartel and only caught a sybil.
1426366;1457412237;ben_vulpes;'tis quite obvious why this had to be done with poor kakobrekla's property and not his own.
1426367;1457412327;asciilifeform;apparently not ?
1426368;1457412790;ben_vulpes;bitbet's addresses are not so much public as waved eagerly to the world, and mpex' barely advertised, and i'd split my sides laughing at the notion there was only the one public mpex address
1426369;1457412840;trinque;I think ben_vulpes has it
1426370;1457413269;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00053224 = 27.1176 BTC [+] {2} 
1426371;1457413441;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424673 << the "mp or bb coins" question is trivially answerable by walking the blockchain and bitbet.
1426372;1457413441;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 15:11:17; nubbins`: did you guys also like how the 17 btc of mp's own money that he lost is going to be taken from shareholder dividends?
1426373;1457413499;ben_vulpes;"what makes bitbet not fairlay" if i understand the kakobreka-ism
1426374;1457413583;ben_vulpes;perhaps the cartel got away. perhaps someone else cares to bet against mircea_popescu's bitcoin prognostications.
1426375;1457414134;ben_vulpes;;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
1426376;1457414134;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1426377;1457416105;mod6;.
1426378;1457416187;mod6;oops
1426379;1457416197;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27075 @ 0.00053449 = 14.4713 BTC [+]
1426380;1457416260;mircea_popescu;haha, people are actually moving to new hampshire ?
1426381;1457416398;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances <<< you don't mean my drinking buddies who a) would take ANY explanation just as long as it doesn't mean gotta get off ass and b) would not be willing, broadly spea
1426382;1457416399;mircea_popescu;king, to spend just about enough to buy half a rifle to defend $item ?
1426383;1457416481;mircea_popescu;at the rate this is going, bitbet actually needs to buy a significant pool, which would go for oh... 10-20k ? i guess ?
1426384;1457416514;mircea_popescu;if the concern trolls in chan are in fact shareholders and to any degree representative for shareholder sentiment (which i deeply doubt, but w/e)... oy vey.
1426385;1457416580;mircea_popescu;one day s.mg is going to do somethingwild like i dunno, acquire a paper clip. watch out then.
1426386;1457416664;ben_vulpes;shareholder sentiment seems most opinionated about s.mpoe
1426387;1457416747;ben_vulpes;how did blowing the coins serve to defend bitbet?
1426388;1457416770;*;ben_vulpes only a curious kourt klown
1426389;1457416901;ben_vulpes;(couldn't possibly own stock, coins, can barely work a paste buffer much less gpg-tron, owns no real computers etc etc)
1426390;1457417052;ben_vulpes;perhaps rifle cost is actually proportionate to value of $item! heck, a month like 7/15 would cover the loa^Hss.
1426391;1457417118;ben_vulpes;or perhaps the bitbet rifle is proportionate to the value of $item were item btc.
1426392;1457417241;ben_vulpes;and to beleabour the point, ka^H^Hbitbet the scouting party sacrificed to establish the new front.
1426393;1457417302;ben_vulpes;but clearly these are all points that only dirigible captains may discuss over hawala shortwave.
1426394;1457417783;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00053449 = 6.6277 BTC [+]
1426395;1457418393;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00053188 = 19.3338 BTC [-] {4} 
1426396;1457419796;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00053141 = 20.5656 BTC [-] {2} 
1426397;1457420833;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67150 @ 0.00053082 = 35.6446 BTC [-] {4} 
1426398;1457421260;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61000 @ 0.00053011 = 32.3367 BTC [-] {2} 
1426399;1457421565;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47374 @ 0.00052996 = 25.1063 BTC [-] {2} 
1426400;1457421626;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00052983 = 23.0879 BTC [-]
1426401;1457422271;mircea_popescu;can discuss qs, waht's teh big deal.
1426402;1457422403;mircea_popescu;ftr, "the color of money" is so fucking bad, tom cruise prolly wrote the screenplay.
1426403;1457422404;mircea_popescu;twice.
1426404;1457422541;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100602 @ 0.0005324 = 53.5605 BTC [+]
1426405;1457423883;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15706 @ 0.00052983 = 8.3215 BTC [-]
1426406;1457423944;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42594 @ 0.00052916 = 22.539 BTC [-] {4} 
1426407;1457424188;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59650 @ 0.00052847 = 31.5232 BTC [-] {2} 
1426408;1457425164;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00053021 = 15.9063 BTC [+]
1426409;1457425652;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00053021 = 7.5025 BTC [+]
1426410;1457426933;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43600 @ 0.00052986 = 23.1019 BTC [-] {2} 
1426411;1457427299;assbot;[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 534 @ 0.00263851 = 1.409 BTC [-] {2} 
1426412;1457428031;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.00052838 = 2.6155 BTC [-]
1426413;1457428153;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77008 @ 0.00052815 = 40.6718 BTC [-] {3} 
1426414;1457428214;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4892 @ 0.00052766 = 2.5813 BTC [-]
1426415;1457430898;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00052865 = 17.3926 BTC [+]
1426416;1457431142;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40150 @ 0.00052765 = 21.1851 BTC [-] {2} 
1426417;1457431286;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b156
1426418;1457432545;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24520 @ 0.00052762 = 12.9372 BTC [-] {2} 
1426419;1457433753;punkman;http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/search1/2603000000.html?cid=AEN20160308001300315
1426420;1457433755;assbot;Yonhap News Agency ... ( http://bit.ly/1RPMk4M )
1426421;1457433759;punkman;(from bbet comments)
1426422;1457433771;punkman;"S. Korean Go player lowers expectations before facing Google AI"
1426423;1457435046;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47388 @ 0.00052756 = 25 BTC [-] {2} 
1426424;1457435107;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175312 @ 0.00052676 = 92.3473 BTC [-] {6} 
1426425;1457435473;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21104 @ 0.00052653 = 11.1119 BTC [-]
1426426;1457435656;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9937 @ 0.00052653 = 5.2321 BTC [-]
1426427;1457435900;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79250 @ 0.00052626 = 41.7061 BTC [-] {4} 
1426428;1457436754;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00052762 = 30.6547 BTC [+]
1426429;1457436871;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.82075928 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b160
1426430;1457438087;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426375    <<< I kek'd
1426431;1457438087;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 05:15:34; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
1426432;1457439377;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00052686 = 39.6726 BTC [-] {4} 
1426433;1457443098;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46392 @ 0.00052918 = 24.5497 BTC [+] {4} 
1426434;1457443165;mircea_popescu;in other random lulz, i wake up to three notifications from various parties spread about the world that transfers sent yesterday have not made it. upon examination, it's three times the case that the fiat world has failed to move money in 30 to 40 hours.
1426435;1457443172;mircea_popescu;such visa much wow this is good for fiat.
1426436;1457443212;mircea_popescu;oh, and bonus lulz : http://dpaste.com/38CJTKK.txt
1426437;1457443214;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1X9DXT8 )
1426438;1457443242;shinohai;^ FUCKIN LOL
1426439;1457443290;shinohai;mircea_popescu can be an Indonesian plantation Lord
1426440;1457443309;mircea_popescu;if they weren't so short.
1426441;1457443341;asciilifeform;meanwhile...
1426442;1457443343;asciilifeform;makeinfo --force -o guile-procedures.txt guile-procedures.texi || test -f guile-procedures.txt
1426443;1457443343;asciilifeform;/bin/sh: line 1:  3309 Segmentation fault      makeinfo --force -o guile-procedures.txt guile-procedures.texi
1426444;1457443343;asciilifeform;Makefile:2567: recipe for target 'guile-procedures.txt' failed
1426445;1457443354;asciilifeform;phhhreeeee as in fleaaadom !1111
1426446;1457443371;thestringpuller;power outage knocked node offline. happy birthday to me :(
1426447;1457443381;mircea_popescu;wait, so guile doesn't actually build ?!
1426448;1457443384;asciilifeform;aha.
1426449;1457443390;asciilifeform;blocks 1,001 other proggies, too
1426450;1457443394;asciilifeform;(e.g., geda)
1426451;1457443397;mircea_popescu;...
1426452;1457443406;mircea_popescu;clearly you must need an upgrade.
1426453;1457443409;shinohai;I hope you didn't experience the same catastrophe I did thestringpuller
1426454;1457443423;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this ~was~ upgrade. now will have to blacklist versions of 1,001 things.
1426455;1457443427;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller were you noding@home ?
1426456;1457443438;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah, just upgrade everything.
1426457;1457443441;mircea_popescu;twice, to be sure.
1426458;1457443451;asciilifeform;this ~was~ an 'upgrade everything, twice'
1426459;1457443458;mircea_popescu;so do more of it.
1426460;1457443468;asciilifeform;the most rational hatred of gentoo comes from folks who ask 'how do i freeze'
1426461;1457443472;asciilifeform;because - you can't
1426462;1457443479;mircea_popescu;ahahaha
1426463;1457443479;asciilifeform;it is this amorphous amoebic dysentry.
1426464;1457443482;mircea_popescu;so why would i want to run it ?
1426465;1457443489;asciilifeform;you probably wouldn't ?
1426466;1457443499;mircea_popescu;you keep making me think i would!
1426467;1457443510;asciilifeform;well, this might be because there is not actually a usable other linux.
1426468;1457443552;mircea_popescu;"son, don't you want to marry this woman ?" "notrly." "well, you should!" "really ?" "yeah. except she's ugly." "well then ?" "but the other women are even uglier." "dad, you're really doing a bum job here."
1426469;1457443565;asciilifeform;'the other women are goats with makeup on'
1426470;1457443569;asciilifeform;which - they are.
1426471;1457443583;asciilifeform;there is precisely one woman on the island.
1426472;1457443593;asciilifeform;and she is from BingoBoingo's photos.
1426473;1457443597;mircea_popescu;i'm still not marrying fugly.
1426474;1457443600;asciilifeform;complete with gangrene.
1426475;1457443624;asciilifeform;'tis that, or fucking holes you auger in the earth yourself.
1426476;1457443635;asciilifeform;which is prolly what comes next, for all of us.
1426477;1457443654;asciilifeform;this, or to plant the coveted cunt-turnip.
1426478;1457443656;mircea_popescu;seems altogether likely.
1426479;1457443680;*;asciilifeform bbl
1426480;1457444397;PeterL;http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-48144
1426481;1457444399;assbot;A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X9HdxL )
1426482;1457444666;jurov;when i tested my mempool hack, I just dropped any priority requirements to have mempool filled quickly. I was surprised there were quite a few spammy tx that neither blockexplorer even knew of.
1426483;1457444749;mircea_popescu;what do you mean neither ? there's ~500 various web explorers.
1426484;1457444759;mircea_popescu;you actually traced them to the same two nodes ?
1426485;1457444770;jurov;traced what?
1426486;1457444808;mircea_popescu;lemme rephrase. "there are more web-based blockexplorer than two. why do you say neither."
1426487;1457444900;jurov;i just checked in blockchain, blockr, and some 2-3 others
1426488;1457444967;mircea_popescu;ah kk
1426489;1457445001;mircea_popescu;by and large web based ones have to prune very narrowly because well... memory.
1426490;1457445014;mircea_popescu;i vaguely recall some discussion about running a b-a one, maybe last year.
1426491;1457445050;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00052597 = 18.2512 BTC [-]
1426492;1457445234;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45135 @ 0.00052597 = 23.7397 BTC [-]
1426493;1457445576;PeterL;B-A needs own: block explorer, keyserver, mining pool, server host, OS, chip fab, etc
1426494;1457445637;mircea_popescu;seems altogether likely the whole keyserver model is getting eaten into g.
1426495;1457445735;PeterL;also: gossipd implementation, pgp implementation, bitcoin implementation, kramer-shoop implementation, lisp implementation, c compiler, etc
1426496;1457445801;mircea_popescu;pgp prolly also merging into g.
1426497;1457445844;mircea_popescu;c compiler i suppose will have ~0 chances of happening, the horsies are pulling towards lisp.
1426498;1457445863;mircea_popescu;and truly there's no good reason to even justify chip fab if you're not going to do something that radical.
1426499;1457445877;mircea_popescu;and since i'd rather include the chip fab, ima support the horsies being radical.
1426500;1457445941;mircea_popescu;but yes, the republic is currently short about twenty to fifty billion in filthy fiats and a few thousand to thirty million engineer hours, depending who's counting the hours. not depending on who's hiring the engineers tho, you ~can't hire for this.
1426501;1457445966;mircea_popescu;which, in the grand scheme of things, is perfectly reasonable. argentina spends about that every coupla years and has ~icecream and steak to show for it.
1426502;1457446672;mircea_popescu;to borrow a cristina-ism, "el proyecto nacional!!11"
1426503;1457447124;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83350 @ 0.00052597 = 43.8396 BTC [-]
1426504;1457447978;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00052597 = 29.7699 BTC [-] {2} 
1426505;1457448337;deedbot-;[Trilema] The color of money - http://trilema.com/2016/the-color-of-money/
1426506;1457448951;mircea_popescu;!up dicecoin
1426507;1457452614;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00052597 = 27.2452 BTC [-]
1426508;1457453052;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426496 << 'p'.
1426509;1457453052;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 14:03:21; mircea_popescu: pgp prolly also merging into g.
1426510;1457453129;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426493 << block explorers as centralized www servers are retarded.
1426511;1457453129;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 13:59:36; PeterL: B-A needs own: block explorer, keyserver, mining pool, server host, OS, chip fab, etc
1426512;1457453133;asciilifeform;yes, it is nice to link to a block or tx.
1426513;1457453139;asciilifeform;but the link should be to LOCAL wwwtronic thing.
1426514;1457453142;asciilifeform;as in, on YOUR box.
1426515;1457453163;asciilifeform;blockchain means they all agree (or they do not, in which case you know that you have plague and when to put on the beak mask)
1426516;1457453272;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426499 << mircea_popescu found a chip fab between his sofa cushions yet ?
1426517;1457453272;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 14:04:37; mircea_popescu: and since i'd rather include the chip fab, ima support the horsies being radical.
1426518;1457454344;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform my idea being that whatever you call it, both g and this p will be running a lot of common code in the cyrpto
1426519;1457454401;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform  mircea_popescu found a chip fab between his sofa cushions yet ? << i don't have enough money to outright do this. if i had, i'd be outright doing this.
1426520;1457454434;mircea_popescu;but as it is, i'm at best useful as a seed. tho from years of reading the logs it's apparent to me seed-cultural is actually a lot more sorely needed than seed-capital, but that's aside.
1426521;1457454473;mircea_popescu;and fwiw, i doubt anyone has the money, or had, in the past century. we're talking 50bn turkey dollars here. gates can, at most, make a foundation to greenhouse little hussein bahamas out in africa.
1426522;1457454496;asciilifeform;makes sense.
1426523;1457454574;asciilifeform;it would have to begin with time rented on ordinary fab, or the like.
1426524;1457454615;asciilifeform;and the item would, in all likelihood, have to be an fpga. (that can be sold to heathens)
1426525;1457454656;asciilifeform;i find the TOTAL absence of documented fpga on the planet , to be interesting.
1426526;1457454664;asciilifeform;it is like a gaping black hole in your living room
1426527;1457454717;asciilifeform;it is, what used to be called 'strategic good'
1426528;1457454727;asciilifeform;(usg recently jailed some schmuck for 'exporting secret' of fpga.)
1426529;1457454777;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The Aviator and the flying Apple TV. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/08/the-aviator-and-the-flying-apple-tv/
1426530;1457454833;mircea_popescu;heh.
1426531;1457454867;mircea_popescu;with any luck, trump wins the election, we get 99 year lease on ft meade and martial law ten miles around the perimeter.
1426532;1457454878;asciilifeform;l0l
1426533;1457454892;mircea_popescu;what ? makes a lot more sense than half his platform, not to mention all the others.
1426534;1457455121;asciilifeform;what next, zhirinovsky wins in ru ?!
1426535;1457455128;asciilifeform;t is exactly him
1426536;1457455139;asciilifeform;and was grown for the same purpose.
1426537;1457455153;mircea_popescu;purpose and history don't mix well
1426538;1457455155;mircea_popescu;historically speaking.
1426539;1457455167;jurov;nubbins for president!
1426540;1457455169;mircea_popescu;hitler, also "grown" for "purpose". ask that pappen baffoon
1426541;1457455176;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.0005259 = 16.1977 BTC [-] {2} 
1426542;1457455218;asciilifeform;man in his 70s is automatically a von papen, and not a hitler
1426543;1457455256;mircea_popescu;this was true before the age of machine-enabled decay. recall the "90 yos get together to establish what 80 yos should retire" thing ?
1426544;1457455295;asciilifeform;i suppose he'd make an ok brezhnev.
1426545;1457455301;mircea_popescu;or yeltsin.
1426546;1457455309;mircea_popescu;time for the us to surrender to the republic.
1426547;1457455319;mircea_popescu;well, it's been time for years now, but the chinese ain't going away.
1426548;1457455728;mircea_popescu;and in other sexploitation news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/4572f58ef5a45c41c06a1edde2fd8c59/tumblr_mex4w12aH01qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1426549;1457455729;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1LbwuSQ )
1426550;1457455824;PeterL;asciilifeform are there currently any self-run block explorer programs?
1426551;1457455838;asciilifeform;not afaik
1426552;1457455845;asciilifeform;and certainly not trbtronic ones.
1426553;1457455861;PeterL;would it be hard to make?
1426554;1457455864;asciilifeform;unless phf finished his and forgot to say
1426555;1457455969;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83000 @ 0.00052531 = 43.6007 BTC [-] {7} 
1426556;1457456012;asciilifeform;PeterL: not so hard, but the reasonable thing to make it in would be shiva
1426557;1457456015;asciilifeform;and it needs some work
1426558;1457456070;PeterL;hi nubbins`
1426559;1457456099;nubbins`;hey
1426560;1457456104;nubbins`;!v assbot:nubbins`.rate.hanbot.-1:99ef4b3d8e17f481dc6e4cb4a2592501214f67972bd8fa6ff300daf8dba9f9fc
1426561;1457456104;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -1 for hanbot with note: nobody. doesn't belong here.
1426562;1457456110;asciilifeform;hey nubbins`
1426563;1457456111;nubbins`;what's new?
1426564;1457456121;asciilifeform;notmuch.txt
1426565;1457456126;nubbins`;cool.asc
1426566;1457456161;asciilifeform;i forgot, what did nubbins` have against hanbot
1426567;1457456177;nubbins`;nothing until she negrated me out of spite
1426568;1457456191;nubbins`;then i realized that she doesn't do anything, and thought it odd she's on the lordship list
1426569;1457456209;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.99800000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b166
1426570;1457456266;nubbins`;funny how this is an ideas place and so many are willing to look past the ideas and focus on the delivery
1426571;1457456274;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00052507 = 5.4082 BTC [-] {3} 
1426572;1457456340;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426568 << iirc she runs mpif.
1426573;1457456340;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 16:56:31; nubbins`: then i realized that she doesn't do anything, and thought it odd she's on the lordship list
1426574;1457456360;PeterL;she runs one of the mpif parts
1426575;1457456367;asciilifeform;(and before this, was 'mpoepr'
1426576;1457456367;asciilifeform;)
1426577;1457456398;asciilifeform;so hanbot is more assetronic than, e.g., asciilifeform.
1426578;1457456401;nubbins`;so she used to do forum pr, but now doesn't
1426579;1457456408;nubbins`;and now she runs.... this? http://trilema.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-february-2016-statement/
1426580;1457456410;assbot;MPIF (F.MPIF) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LbxHJQ )
1426581;1457456421;PeterL;uhh, did asciilifeform forget about s.nsa?
1426582;1457456422;nubbins`;fair enough. there are some here who do less.
1426583;1457456445;PeterL;* raises hand
1426584;1457456492;nubbins`;in fact, F.MPIF has not performed any economic activity since October 2014
1426585;1457456498;nubbins`;0 in, 0 out every month since
1426586;1457456500;nubbins`;but w/e
1426587;1457456531;PeterL;they are certainly sitting on lots of cash
1426588;1457456543;nubbins`;not belabouring the point, just pointing out that sauce from hanbot holds zero value, and if all she does is run the mouth and not contribute, she's just getting in the way.
1426589;1457456563;nubbins`;basically just a vexual without the youtube links
1426590;1457456564;asciilifeform;PeterL: assetronic is a thing
1426591;1457456607;PeterL;I think you missvalue yourself on this scale
1426592;1457456619;asciilifeform;i mean something very specific
1426593;1457456630;PeterL;could you define it better then?
1426594;1457456633;asciilifeform;i don't have an mpex account; am powerless to move so much as one share of anything; etc.
1426595;1457456644;asciilifeform;have ~0 btc.
1426596;1457456671;PeterL;you have a weird way of measuring things
1426597;1457456685;asciilifeform;and my understanding to this day is that most #b-a folks originally appeared here because they were involved with one of these things
1426598;1457456732;trinque;"oh, I'm only busy reinventing every piece of software and hardware this nascent cryptoculture needs to survive"
1426599;1457456737;trinque;lol
1426600;1457456747;asciilifeform;trinque: not so far off.
1426601;1457456769;PeterL;and you don't see how what you do affects everybody else here?
1426602;1457456783;trinque;I respectfully tip my hat to the burden of having seen far further than one can walk (at least yet)
1426603;1457456783;asciilifeform;trinque: i was explaining to nubbins` et al that hanbot, whom he dislikes, is actually more of a proper 'asseteer' than i, whom he seems to respect.
1426604;1457456789;asciilifeform;ty trinque.
1426605;1457456803;nubbins`;asciilifeform fwiw i value ability and actions, and little else
1426606;1457456828;asciilifeform;anyway i do not know hanbot very well, cannot speak for hanbot.
1426607;1457456879;nubbins`;in fact, vexatiousness seems to be the only quality she's willing to share with the world
1426608;1457456891;nubbins`;not worthy of much respect imo. opinions vary
1426609;1457456895;asciilifeform;nubbins`: she wrote a spiffy story,
1426610;1457456898;asciilifeform;!s shall be delivered
1426611;1457456899;assbot;46 results for 'shall be delivered' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shall+be+delivered
1426612;1457456899;nubbins`;zzzzzzzzzz.
1426613;1457456932;nubbins`;asciilifeform tell me something in the present tense and i'll maybe be interested
1426614;1457456949;nubbins`;wrote, was, ran, etc.
1426615;1457456960;asciilifeform;nubbins`: iirc the present tense is mostly re: eulora, about which i know ~0.
1426616;1457456967;asciilifeform;so i am powerless to help.
1426617;1457456980;nubbins`;so that's both of us who see no merit to having her on the lordship, then
1426618;1457457002;nubbins`;she's about as currently relevant as TAT
1426619;1457457019;nubbins`;who, if you'll double-check the list...
1426620;1457457023;asciilifeform;am i the last one who isn't obsessed with hunting for folks to throw out of the lordship thing >?
1426621;1457457043;nubbins`;an obsession this is not. you asked, i answered
1426622;1457457044;PeterL;should the lordship be so stringently policed?
1426623;1457457058;nubbins`;PeterL stringent policing isn't a thing here anymore
1426624;1457457064;nubbins`;financially or socially
1426625;1457457153;asciilifeform;nubbins`: did mircea_popescu ever answer your deedbotted grievance thing ?
1426626;1457457197;nubbins`;asciilifeform you read the logs as well as i. all are aware that the accusation remains unanswered
1426627;1457457199;PeterL;did mircea_popescu ever say how his bitcoin handles conflicting transactions?
1426628;1457457211;asciilifeform;PeterL: not iirc
1426629;1457457251;PeterL;I guess it got missed in all the shouting
1426630;1457457264;nubbins`;asciilifeform strange since all but hanbot and mp agree that nothing adds up
1426631;1457457274;asciilifeform;the ~only thing i know about mpb is that 1) it is roughly compatible with 0.6 and 2) he fixed the db locks bug years ago, and shared with me the patch, a while back, and it is in trb
1426632;1457457328;asciilifeform;nubbins`: from rereading the log, you can see that mircea_popescu considers the 17 btc to be a justified cost-of-war thing.
1426633;1457457402;asciilifeform;he was driving the tank, and it got hit.
1426634;1457457422;PeterL;today is presidential primary here in mich, I havn't decided how to vote, half tempted to write in Rand Paul as a protest against all the idiots still running
1426635;1457457430;asciilifeform;vermin supreme!
1426636;1457457494;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59834 @ 0.00052618 = 31.4835 BTC [+] {2} 
1426637;1457457567;asciilifeform;and wtf, i oppose throwing folks who are still in the battlefield, out of the lordship, srsly
1426638;1457457597;nubbins`;asciilifeform what mircea_popescu considers it doesn't necessarily reflect what it actually is
1426639;1457457603;danielpbarron;if mich is like conn, he can't vote vermin supreme if he was otherwise going to vote rand
1426640;1457457632;nubbins`;asciilifeform consider the case that i may consider my cat a steed. if i mount it, what happens?
1426641;1457457646;PeterL;no, in Michigan they give us a ballot with both parties and we get to pick wich one we vote on
1426642;1457457660;asciilifeform;nubbins`: mrreauw.
1426643;1457457663;nubbins`;anyway
1426644;1457457668;danielpbarron;aha, here in Connecticut if you're registered republican you can't vote in democratic primary and vice versa
1426645;1457457677;asciilifeform;ftr nubbins` has a first-class cat.
1426646;1457457678;danielpbarron;i ran into this problem in 2012 when i wanted to vote for Ron Paul
1426647;1457457694;PeterL;in michigan we don't even register as a party
1426648;1457457745;nubbins`;asciilifeform just wondering: do you still think it's a drill?
1426649;1457457811;asciilifeform;nubbins`: prolly not.
1426650;1457457849;asciilifeform;but i also think that mircea_popescu explained his pov pretty well.
1426651;1457457859;nubbins`;here's the straight dope. we all knew from the start that mp doesn't care when he's wrong, he just bulldozes. countless examples exist, i don't care to find them for you. kako agrees that the expense is fraudulent, jurov agrees, many others agree; the only ones who don't agree are you, who seem quite willing to let kako take the hit in order to maintain peace, and hanbot, who obviously doesn't count as an opinion
1426652;1457457879;asciilifeform;which was, approx., 'i drive the tank and if you don't like how, find another'
1426653;1457457896;nubbins`;mp's initial silence on the Nk, Nm node stuff until his other arguments were busted implies strongly that it's total bullshit,
1426654;1457457923;nubbins`;his ad hominem attacks (called my wife an ugly broad!) reflected quite poorly on him as a person and as a leader of anything meaningful
1426655;1457457942;PeterL;so, as I have been watching my trb node sync the past three months (am I the only person who thinks this takes way too long?) it seems like it spends alot of time trying to connect to nodes and timing out?
1426656;1457457944;danielpbarron;it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. As for the others going along with your rabble rousing, that only makes me suspicious of them.
1426657;1457457948;nubbins`;his inability to listen when he's offered advice is off-putting, and his inability to admit error when it's glaringly obvious is vulgar
1426658;1457457982;asciilifeform;nubbins`: it is difficult to have a useful discussion in the midst of 'your mother eats electric eeels. -- no YOUR mother. .. etc'
1426659;1457457994;nubbins`;he's a small, sad man, nothing more than a mark karpeles with better book-learning. lucked his way into a windfall by recognizing bitcoin as an opportunity early on; just hasn't fallen on the sword yet.
1426660;1457458001;trinque;asciilifeform: aha
1426661;1457458006;trinque;deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/d66ee247-5d4d-4328-b08a-fcba4a6b2f48/?raw=true
1426662;1457458008;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyuxMR )
1426663;1457458023;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1426664;1457458030;trinque;nubbins`: ^ deed address generator
1426665;1457458033;nubbins`;<+danielpbarron>it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. << that's beause kako had the private convo with me, not you
1426666;1457458041;danielpbarron;and what is this, the non violent language center? who cares if someone used an "ad hominem" already. In my experience, uses of this term are stupid.
1426667;1457458078;danielpbarron;what's next I'm gonna cite private conversations with God?
1426668;1457458095;trinque;curl -s http://deedbot.org/bundle-401626.txt | python gen-addr.py
1426669;1457458096;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyuIbf )
1426670;1457458097;trinque;1KDzk3vd7TeXtgA3PRY6xyz2qBodPVkPTx
1426671;1457458106;jurov;danielpbarron: you already did, numerous times
1426672;1457458125;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>nubbins`: it is difficult to have a useful discussion in the midst of 'your mother eats electric eeels. -- no YOUR mother. .. etc' << agreed, which is why i found hanbot's vulgarity very disheartening; she only jumped into the conversation to insult and vexate. mp's bringing my wife into it was a ludicrous response to me accusing him of fraud. my wife's not in the picture.
1426673;1457458133;danielpbarron;oh yeah? where's that?
1426674;1457458137;asciilifeform;nubbins`: did kako sign the bbet-is-sad letter ?
1426675;1457458145;asciilifeform;because i don't remember seeing his sig on it
1426676;1457458146;trinque;as for my perspective, the tools either work or they don't. the WoT, deedbot, forum, so on, sorts itself or doesn't.
1426677;1457458152;nubbins`;<+jurov>danielpbarron: you already did, numerous times << HEH
1426678;1457458179;nubbins`;asciilifeform kako's mouth is shut for the time being
1426679;1457458199;asciilifeform;nubbins`: let's see if we can agree re: what the dispute is properly about
1426680;1457458205;nubbins`;ok
1426681;1457458208;asciilifeform;presently i think it was about how bbet is run.
1426682;1457458235;nubbins`;it's about how #b-a is run
1426683;1457458265;asciilifeform;bbet specifically.
1426684;1457458275;PeterL;is #b-a run, or does it just kinda go by itself?
1426685;1457458282;nubbins`;PeterL it's run
1426686;1457458289;asciilifeform;and from my reading of the listing article, it appears to very clearly imply that it is mircea_popescu's thing and he can take the ball and go home, etc.
1426687;1457458305;nubbins`;asciilifeform agreed, he has held all the cards since day 1.
1426688;1457458323;jurov;asciilifeform: there's the simple question, if sending zerofee tx is acting "in good faith", that #b-a forum could answer
1426689;1457458324;asciilifeform;but i don't recall nubbins` being sad since day1
1426690;1457458327;nubbins`;the listing agreement clearly states that at any time MP wishes, he can liquidate S.BBET via MPEx
1426691;1457458336;nubbins`;asciilifeform i'm not sad today!
1426692;1457458341;danielpbarron;so then there is no problem by your own admission nubbins`
1426693;1457458359;nubbins`;danielpbarron the logic doesn't follow, please explain showing your workings?
1426694;1457458360;PeterL;so the only recourse shareholders have is to sell if they disagree with his decisions, maybe they could have brought suit for negligence before the rota when that was a thing?
1426695;1457458376;danielpbarron;nubbins`> the listing agreement clearly states that at any time MP wishes, he can liquidate S.BBET via MPEx << QED. STFU
1426696;1457458397;nubbins`;lol.
1426697;1457458414;asciilifeform;incidentally, i am not seeing a bbet shareholder stampede
1426698;1457458421;nubbins`;so it's okay to commit fraud, as long as the business you're defrauding is on your exchange?
1426699;1457458433;danielpbarron;there was a little bit of selling, i was on the recieving end of it
1426700;1457458433;PeterL;there was some selling the past couple days
1426701;1457458447;nubbins`;danielpbarron seems to think that one cannot point out fraud if the fraudster is party to the fraud
1426702;1457458456;nubbins`;now there's a logical leap
1426703;1457458462;nubbins`;sure you don't wanna explain again?
1426704;1457458463;jurov;asciilifeform: the price fell by 40% last month
1426705;1457458471;PeterL;some of the smaller bids were removed from the orderbook, but the big ones are still there
1426706;1457458475;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i do not agree that the 17 was 'personal expense.'
1426707;1457458480;danielpbarron;that's not true jurov
1426708;1457458484;asciilifeform;this is the part where i part from nubbins`'s interp.
1426709;1457458496;nubbins`;asciilifeform fair enough and duly retracted
1426710;1457458511;nubbins`;i still believe it was so, in the absence of conflicting evidence
1426711;1457458524;asciilifeform;so i do not see the ' mircea_popescu is cheating people ' angle.
1426712;1457458542;danielpbarron;there hasn't been nearly enough volume on S.BBET to claim any sort of price falling, except for about a year ago when 10 or so bitcoin worth brought it from the 40s to the teens
1426713;1457458545;nubbins`;shame, but apparently i cannot change your mind with facts
1426714;1457458552;trinque;in the absence of assets it seems the only way to keep bbet running
1426715;1457458559;trinque;this even assuming that it was entirely a mistake and so on
1426716;1457458563;asciilifeform;i could see a ' bbet shareholders believe that bbet is mismanaged ' angle, but ~it is THEIR business~ and not mine, and their one option is to get off the bus, as per the articles.
1426717;1457458569;nubbins`;danielpbarron that was probably all of the non-mp investors leaving.
1426718;1457458579;danielpbarron;10 btc is nothing
1426719;1457458584;nubbins`;bbet is nothing
1426720;1457458588;trinque;faced with "shut bitbet down" or "gift bitbet the funds to keep running" or "loan them", what's the right thing to do?
1426721;1457458589;nubbins`;look at the monthly statements
1426722;1457458605;nubbins`;you'd make a better profit bumming change outside the metro
1426723;1457458623;danielpbarron;there is no right thing. It's Mircea's thing like it or not
1426724;1457458623;trinque;companies make errors that cost money, either due to their own mistakes or externalities; that's life
1426725;1457458626;nubbins`;trinque that's not the question
1426726;1457458646;PeterL;bbet makes like 1-10 btc per month, it might still be overpriced
1426727;1457458690;asciilifeform;nubbins`: do you understand the essence of what mircea_popescu said to you ? about 'rabble rousing' ?
1426728;1457458708;nubbins`;asciilifeform got a link? i don't think he's said anything to me lately
1426729;1457458711;asciilifeform;'rabbling' is a Bad Thing and subtracts from otherwise good argument.
1426730;1457458729;jurov;good arguments went unheard
1426731;1457458734;nubbins`;asciilifeform do you disagree that mp's corrosive attitude is a Bad Thing and subtracts from otherwise good ___?
1426732;1457458735;asciilifeform;bbet is not demoocracy-powered and won't turn into it no matter how many tears.
1426733;1457458756;nubbins`;also: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/
1426734;1457458757;assbot;#bitcoin-assets rules and regulations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1k32ZX6 )
1426735;1457458759;danielpbarron;nubbins`, you sound like a redditard
1426736;1457458768;nubbins`;Professional does not imply any restriction of form.ii You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
1426737;1457458778;nubbins`;for emphasis: Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
1426738;1457458789;nubbins`;"too much rabble, not listening"
1426739;1457458800;danielpbarron;"do you disagree that X's corrosive attitude is a Bad Thing and subtracts from Y" is like a USG memo card for filipino spammers
1426740;1457458813;trinque;there's a difference between offending someone with the truth as a matter of tactics, and doing it to the exclusion of sense
1426741;1457458823;nubbins`;danielpbarron direct mirror response to asciilifeform's statement, keep up or stfu
1426742;1457458829;asciilifeform;let's imagine i agreed with nubbins` now.
1426743;1457458836;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00052619 = 30.6243 BTC [+]
1426744;1457458836;asciilifeform;what am i to ~do~ ?
1426745;1457458841;asciilifeform;i don't even own bbet stock
1426746;1457458848;asciilifeform;and if i did, the stock doesn't even vote.
1426747;1457458851;asciilifeform;i could... sell it.
1426748;1457458854;asciilifeform;this stock, that i never had.
1426749;1457458866;nubbins`;trinque i'd like to think i've provided facts in an offensive manner
1426750;1457458869;PeterL;you could short the stock?
1426751;1457458871;asciilifeform;sold! [imaginary stock, for imaginary coin.] satisfied ?
1426752;1457458885;nubbins`;asciilifeform IDGAF about bbet shareholders.
1426753;1457458886;nubbins`;at all.
1426754;1457458903;nubbins`;what i do give a shit about is people owning up to their mistakes
1426755;1457458912;nubbins`;mp's behaviour is forum-level.
1426756;1457458918;jurov;asciilifeform: so if i have an opinion about a fraud that does not directyl concern mne, i should stay silent? cuz this is not a democracy?
1426757;1457458933;nubbins`;jurov correct. fraud accusations are NOT welcome here.
1426758;1457458946;nubbins`;if you see an error in a financial statement, do not speak up.
1426759;1457458954;jurov;hanbot was not directly involved in many frauds, but raising hell from her is wseen as good and proper
1426760;1457458968;trinque;define fraud in the context of an unregistered corporation, and what the recourse shall be under no laws which define fraud?
1426761;1457458973;trinque;sell and negrate.
1426762;1457458975;nubbins`;jurov a blessing from the king will do that.
1426763;1457458975;trinque;that's it
1426764;1457458991;nubbins`;trinque sell, negrate, smear reputation if desired
1426765;1457459018;*;nubbins` invites all to count the number of pages of woodcollector threads on the forum
1426766;1457459049;danielpbarron;so go start a forum thread
1426767;1457459068;nubbins`;don't feel like it. what's with all the imperatives? nobody to boss around in the trailer park?
1426768;1457459095;danielpbarron;not this time of year no
1426769;1457459125;nubbins`;my sincere condolences
1426770;1457459130;jurov;trinque so, i'll throw your funds at coinbr by sending around zerofee tx, malformed mpex requests, etc. you'll only negrate me and do nothing else?
1426771;1457459141;trinque;what is the else?
1426772;1457459153;jurov;being loud at the forum
1426773;1457459162;trinque;I haven't negrated anyone for being loud!
1426774;1457459167;nubbins`;^ as admin of CoinBr, the current situation directly affects jurov. maybe that's why jurov and kako are the only ones not 100% complicit in this scheme
1426775;1457459186;nubbins`;he doesn't wanna list a scam fund any more than kako wants to own one
1426776;1457459199;danielpbarron;jurov, i don't see the relation. shareholders of bbet never had an expection to control what happens with bbet funds
1426777;1457459216;jurov;you have control over your coinbr funds? how?
1426778;1457459229;PeterL;danielpbarron they have an expectation that their funds will be used with fiduciary integrity
1426779;1457459233;nubbins`;danielpbarron you're steadfastly dodging the point that MP's fraudulent math is the issue. IDGAF if it's bbet or him and vexual playing dice
1426780;1457459252;danielpbarron;well isn't that the expectation? the whole point of the broker is to hold the funds, and place the orders on my behalf..
1426781;1457459272;danielpbarron;i don't agree there was any fraud
1426782;1457459273;ben_vulpes;jurov: how frequently do mpex withdrawals go out with 0-fee txns?
1426783;1457459286;nubbins`;danielpbarron that disagreement is essentially the only one on the table
1426784;1457459301;nubbins`;whether mp committed fraud (intentional or unintentional)
1426785;1457459306;nubbins`;some feel yes, some feel no
1426786;1457459321;nubbins`;everything else is a discussion surrounding that, or idiots telling adults not to have the discussion
1426787;1457459371;danielpbarron;i said i was ok with what he ended up doing, ~before~ he did it
1426788;1457459383;nubbins`;ok, great. your opinion is noted.
1426789;1457459392;PeterL;danielpbarron if mircea_popescu had sent the funds to his wallet and spent them on hookers and blow, would that count as fraud or would you let him asses that as "the cost of doing business"?
1426790;1457459410;jurov;ben_vulpes: mpex withdrawals don't come into picture, my withdrawals would, if i sent them zerofee
1426791;1457459415;danielpbarron;when that bbet february statement came out, i read it and breathed a sigh of relief, not knowing how controversial it apparently was
1426792;1457459441;ben_vulpes;nubbins`: and what precisely the claim's root? that mircea_popescu paid twice? that the funds were his and the loan a breach of contract?
1426793;1457459446;danielpbarron;PeterL, i've never run a business, i don't know if those things are needed or what
1426794;1457459473;nubbins`;ben_vulpes that transaction B was popescu's personal funds, which he sent of his own free will, AKA a generous donation to bettors.
1426795;1457459488;jurov;and the picture is, that some people think that bitbet's funds are at full disposal of mircea_popescu and he can send zerofee tx and all is okay... while coinbr, somehow can not, because "broker"?
1426796;1457459489;ben_vulpes;ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
1426797;1457459495;nubbins`;ben_vulpes if you pay the pizza guy with your own money, EVEN IF YOU'RE AT WORK, you don't get to automatically bill work for the pizza.
1426798;1457459525;nubbins`;ben_vulpes not trivially, you'd actually have to click a mouse a bunch of times or w/e
1426799;1457459525;ben_vulpes;nubbins`: well i do but that's a special case.
1426800;1457459535;ben_vulpes;nubbins`: some perl.
1426801;1457459538;nubbins`;ben "vous" instead of you; it's a failing of english
1426802;1457459549;ben_vulpes;i know i know.
1426803;1457459566;PeterL;for the record, I view it as a stupid mistake on mp's part, not fraud, so I am fine with having sold my shares I will just let things be
1426804;1457459567;trinque;but that's entirely relevant; management/owners *do* get to make those kinds of decisions
1426805;1457459592;trinque;insofar as an agreement between the owners defines such things
1426806;1457459595;nubbins`;PeterL the thing about stupid mistakes is that if you realize they've happened and you DON'T CORRECT THEM, they turn into fraud.
1426807;1457459627;danielpbarron;i don't agree with the stupid mistake hypothesis either
1426808;1457459648;PeterL;think of it this way: guy makes a bad investment and loses money for his firm, does he have to personally repay it or does the company take the loss?
1426809;1457459652;trinque;"I unilaterally decided to loan the company X amount emergency funds to keep the lights on." << this is not unheard of, if the officer who made the decision had the power to do so
1426810;1457459682;jurov;PeterL: that's question of good faith
1426811;1457459695;jurov;is sending zerofee tx acting in good faith?
1426812;1457459696;ben_vouspes;PeterL: ah, that's simple! traders get fired as soon as they mean revert.
1426813;1457459707;danielpbarron;trinque, and since the alternative was apparently liquidating bbet shares at 0.00001 btc per share, it's absurd that anyone arguing in favor of this outcome has the shareholders interests at heart
1426814;1457459717;nubbins`;trinque poor analogy
1426815;1457459724;trinque;perhaps, how so?
1426816;1457459725;PeterL;he did have a loan from MPIF in the past (to cover a previous mistake), so bitbet having a loan has precedence
1426817;1457459745;trinque;*precedent
1426818;1457459751;ben_vouspes;weeeel, previous mistake was overpaying investors not double-paying bettors, was it not?
1426819;1457459756;nubbins`;paying the light bill is when the company purchases a service (light) for money
1426820;1457459770;nubbins`;giving bettors a free handout is when you just give money away
1426821;1457459795;PeterL;it was an overpayment, yes, just like this is an overpayment
1426822;1457459825;PeterL;should he ask the bettors to refund the money?
1426823;1457459844;danielpbarron;i'm curious what would be the argument today if there had never been a transaction B, and transactions A1-An were still nowhere to be found..
1426824;1457459851;nubbins`;if i send the light company $100 cash in the mail because i think my employer is behind on their bills, but it turns out they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer to give my $100 back.
1426825;1457459865;nubbins`;danielpbarron why are you curious about something that didn't happen?
1426826;1457459875;nubbins`;why that specific non-occurrence, anyway?
1426827;1457459884;nubbins`;i'm curious what would be the argument if mp had a vagina
1426828;1457459887;PeterL;danielpbarron we would be asking him to talk to a miner and have the txn included in a block
1426829;1457459896;danielpbarron;at what cost?
1426830;1457459900;nubbins`;or if hanbot contributed anything useful to the realm
1426831;1457459921;danielpbarron;apparently any cost >0 would be fraud..
1426832;1457459922;nubbins`;  <+PeterL>should he ask the bettors to refund the money? <<< probably not.
1426833;1457459926;jurov;danielpbarron: miner would ask much less than 17btc, dontcha think?
1426834;1457459930;nubbins`;he could, if he wished, but it would be a lol.
1426835;1457459949;danielpbarron;yeah that's a non-starter
1426836;1457459962;nubbins`;danielpbarron you're inventing hypothetical situations and saying "apparently this'd be fraud"
1426837;1457459964;nubbins`;come back to earth
1426838;1457459966;PeterL;if the cost is worth the reputation of bitbet paying out thier winnings, then he should pay it
1426839;1457459976;danielpbarron;i thought this was a principled stand. Now it's just that 17 was too much to pay?
1426840;1457459984;nubbins`;PeterL bitbet has quite a poor reputation, if you haven't noticed
1426841;1457460000;nubbins`;danielpbarron again, not interested in your hypotheticals
1426842;1457460010;nubbins`;you stated your stance
1426843;1457460015;danielpbarron;as have you.
1426844;1457460017;asciilifeform;i think nubbins` was arguing that sending tx b. was sinful.
1426845;1457460024;nubbins`;asciilifeform no.
1426846;1457460028;asciilifeform;because of where its inputs had to have come from.
1426847;1457460034;PeterL;I would say getting the bets paid is not worth 17 btc
1426848;1457460038;nubbins`;charging tx B to bitbet's liabilities was sinful.
1426849;1457460050;mircea_popescu;lol check it out, still with this ?
1426850;1457460051;nubbins`;sending B was noble until he put it on bitbet's books.
1426851;1457460052;danielpbarron;incidently it's none of our places to say what it was worth
1426852;1457460059;*;mircea_popescu shudders to think what happens if a woman tells nubbins off or something
1426853;1457460071;asciilifeform;nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ?
1426854;1457460075;asciilifeform;or ought to ? or what.
1426855;1457460081;asciilifeform;and hey there's mircea_popescu .
1426856;1457460081;PeterL;<nubbins`> if i send the light company $100 cash in the mail because i think my employer is behind on their bills, but it turns out they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer to give my $100 back. << you would expect the power company to refund you
1426857;1457460099;mircea_popescu;really... could we conduct the nutso convention on tardstalk, reddit or whatever usual venue ?
1426858;1457460131;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? <<<...what? link plz.
1426859;1457460145;jurov;mircea_popescu: only if hanbot argues against fraudsters as usual
1426860;1457460156;nubbins`;PeterL i would, yes. mp would not expect the lucky bettors to refund him.
1426861;1457460173;nubbins`;jurov ooo fightin words
1426862;1457460196;nubbins`;mircea_popescu seems to feel that fraud accusations have no place in #b-a
1426863;1457460212;PeterL;as a lucky bettor, I would be willing to refund the extra winnings, minus a "processing fee"
1426864;1457460228;nubbins`;PeterL that's your perogative. i would keep them.
1426865;1457460229;mircea_popescu;she may be open for hire, inquire with her.
1426866;1457460239;shinohai;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycKNt0MhTkk
1426867;1457460240;assbot;Monty Python - Spam - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyyJw7 )
1426868;1457460249;jurov;lel can i imagine how would hanbot go if nefario, inaba or anyone billed such "expenses" to their shareholders
1426869;1457460260;nubbins`;shinohai what's that, a joke? spamming the chan with a video about spam?
1426870;1457460270;danielpbarron;PeterL, this is like the "I would gladly pay higher taxes" argument. So go, pay. Make a gracious donation.
1426871;1457460271;shinohai;yup
1426872;1457460275;mircea_popescu;jurov plox to quote rather than imagine. this imagination hasn't served you well in the past, won't start to at any point.
1426873;1457460276;nubbins`;shinohai nb
1426874;1457460300;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72176 @ 0.00052466 = 37.8679 BTC [-] {6} 
1426875;1457460306;mircea_popescu;but by and large, the problem seems to be that either throgh simple immersion, or sheer intellectual laziness, or a mix or whatever, lots and lots of people have SERIOIS
1426876;1457460311;nubbins`;ooo, mp implies that he doesn't respect jurov's intelligence
1426877;1457460315;mircea_popescu;problems getting out of the fiat garbage.
1426878;1457460323;mircea_popescu;which is fine - but i also don't and won't entertain any of it.
1426879;1457460344;nubbins`;mircea_popescu also won't entertain serious allegations of fraud, to nobody's surprise
1426880;1457460350;asciilifeform;i think i have an accurate model tho. (which is 'bbet is mircea_popescu's toy, he can take ball and go home if he wants')
1426881;1457460365;nubbins`;asciilifeform we get it, he has a free pass from you
1426882;1457460372;mircea_popescu;yes, lordlist was seeded, like everything else (bitcoin included) with very low effort , and very low bars, which is how people like nubbins made it in. this is both fine and the right thing.
1426883;1457460373;asciilifeform;why does he need pass from me, l0l
1426884;1457460374;PeterL;<asciilifeform> nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? << the beauty of publicly published financials is that we can call out things we thing are misrepresented
1426885;1457460382;mircea_popescu;as time goes on, the bar raises, and many/most/whatever can't cope.
1426886;1457460385;mircea_popescu;this is also expected.
1426887;1457460387;nubbins`;asciilifeform he doesn't. yet still you provide.
1426888;1457460406;mircea_popescu;PeterL not in those terms.
1426889;1457460433;asciilifeform;nubbins`: as you know, i very frequently disagree with him. you could prolly make a whole book of these.
1426890;1457460436;nubbins`;mircea_popescu's statements about the bar raising seem to directly back up my assertion that hanbot needs to get the heave-ho.
1426891;1457460439;mircea_popescu;the beauty of the internet generally is that otherwise unemployable bits of social refuse can offer their unsolicited takes on things.
1426892;1457460451;mircea_popescu;if the people who matter think anything of it, it may see the life of day. if not... a well.
1426893;1457460454;nubbins`;asciilifeform always a soft disagree, never digging a heel in.
1426894;1457460472;nubbins`;mircea_popescu is actually describing hanbot scathingly well here
1426895;1457460484;nubbins`;or maybe she has a job playing diablo somewhere?
1426896;1457460507;nubbins`;wait, no, she "runs" F.MPIF which has been inactive for 18 months
1426897;1457460531;nubbins`;i have no idea why some of you cannot see this place as nothing more than a "cool kids club"
1426898;1457460554;PeterL;mircea_popescu but clearly there is the expectation that people inside your WoT will say something if they think your report is wrong
1426899;1457460562;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116734 << check it out, moar impersonations ?
1426900;1457460564;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ryzbug )
1426901;1457460572;mircea_popescu;PeterL aha.
1426902;1457460578;nubbins`;looky: if anyone feels up to the task, they can take the lordship list and put each member's past accomplishments and current works under their name. maybe see once and for all who cuts the mustard and who cuts the cheese.
1426903;1457460587;mircea_popescu;the matter to be resolved exactly one of two ways : fixing the report or fixing the wot.
1426904;1457460614;nubbins`;"nassim taleb" lol
1426905;1457460628;nubbins`;remember when mp was trying to get him in here?
1426906;1457460628;mircea_popescu;we had an idiocy of ~this caliber back about three-four years ago, which newcomers particularly bored and people without anything to do are invited to read.
1426907;1457460634;*;nubbins` laughs until out of breath
1426908;1457460644;nubbins`;taleb hanging out on irc with a bunch of drunks and permanent disability folks
1426909;1457460650;mircea_popescu;at that point, i was trying to get a court system off the ground, similarly with random people as judges.
1426910;1457460659;asciilifeform;rota?
1426911;1457460668;mircea_popescu;traditionally, in the common law at least, the jury is the trier of fact ; with the judge establishing the legal meaning of those facts.
1426912;1457460669;nubbins`;the rota was a brutal flop too
1426913;1457460674;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1426914;1457460677;nubbins`;remember the massive money-losing loophole?
1426915;1457460691;nubbins`;mp's ad-hoc approach to life fails more often than it succeeds
1426916;1457460692;mircea_popescu;this system worked more or less for a while, which is to say up to maybe the 1920s. back then people had some sort of relation to reality.
1426917;1457460727;mircea_popescu;it broke down, because by now social consensus is the principal guide for people. and so... the trier of fact established some sort of social consensus and was very surprised when my reaction was to simply disolve it.
1426918;1457460746;mircea_popescu;because apparently i don't know how the world works, and haven't properly groked the memo about how "reality is enacted by convention" or somesuch.
1426919;1457460750;nubbins`;logic and maths are now a matter of social consensus?
1426920;1457460754;nubbins`;wow.
1426921;1457460763;nubbins`;literally speechless
1426922;1457460771;asciilifeform;nubbins`: dead pilots in the '30s-'40s were sometimes found with the control joystick literally torn from its moorings. they pulled against jammed flight surfaces and physically destroyed the stick. it did not help.
1426923;1457460785;PeterL;mircea_popescu if you were to start rota now, what would you do differently?
1426924;1457460801;mircea_popescu;i would not consider unqualified people.
1426925;1457460810;mircea_popescu;but now i have the ~option~ to do this. back then, i didn't.
1426926;1457460818;mircea_popescu;construction, willy-nilly, proceeds on scaffolding.
1426927;1457460822;mircea_popescu;which yes, is essentially flotsam.
1426928;1457460829;nubbins`;the funny thing about all of this is that if i'd approached the sitation with humbleness and humility, the report would already be changed
1426929;1457460839;nubbins`;but because i went on the offensive, mircea_popescu simply cannot back down.
1426930;1457460859;nubbins`;incidentally this was the idea from the start
1426931;1457460869;nubbins`;kako was v dismayed
1426932;1457460877;asciilifeform;nubbins`: at least try leaving the joystick attached.
1426933;1457460890;nubbins`;begged me not to humiliate mp, so that bbet could continue
1426934;1457460900;nubbins`;but, fuck mp, so the humiliation proceeded
1426935;1457460910;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't see how it's not fully torn, but hey, maybe just me.
1426936;1457460912;nubbins`;note that S.BBET feb 2016 financials remain unsigned by kako.
1426937;1457460947;asciilifeform;nubbins`: if kako disagrees with mp, i expect that he will put this in writing and sign ?
1426938;1457460952;asciilifeform;rather than play 'telephone'
1426939;1457460956;nubbins`;asciilifeform yes, i expect.
1426940;1457460961;asciilifeform;so then.
1426941;1457460967;nubbins`;so then?
1426942;1457460975;asciilifeform;wait for him to wake up ?
1426943;1457461006;nubbins`;sure. in the meantime, i'll point out that he's had ample opportunity to sign the financials
1426944;1457461030;nubbins`;but has not, so far
1426945;1457461067;asciilifeform;i can see this with naked eye, sure.
1426946;1457461137;nubbins`;you can also see with naked eye where kako asserts that mircea_popescu broke 3.2 (d) of listing agreement?
1426947;1457461148;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424941
1426948;1457461148;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
1426949;1457461168;asciilifeform;also nubbins` seems to be painting kakobrekla as a helpless pet of mircea_popescu  ?
1426950;1457461191;nubbins`;"i was not even aware of any of it" vs 3.2 (d)'s text: "All decisions with regards to any aspect of BitBet ... will require unanimous agreement of all the representatives of BitBet."
1426951;1457461192;asciilifeform;i do not think kakobrekla would agree.
1426952;1457461212;nubbins`;asciilifeform your assumption is incorrect, i am painting no such picture
1426953;1457461231;asciilifeform;nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426933 << ?
1426954;1457461231;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 18:14:50; nubbins`: begged me not to humiliate mp, so that bbet could continue
1426955;1457461232;nubbins`;i am guessing that kako is furiously fighting this fire behind the scenes
1426956;1457461280;nubbins`;asciilifeform there was no other way for me to say it.
1426957;1457461288;mircea_popescu;so i've been looking for some sort of color revolution pronz to go with this derpy maidan thing, and the best i could find is i guess http://40.media.tumblr.com/9e888de5dbac8d7017d4e4af24cf0fe9/tumblr_meti8qPtdL1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1426958;1457461289;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24OMNLP )
1426959;1457461292;mircea_popescu;will hafta do.
1426960;1457461294;nubbins`;the guy said that if i made mp angry, mp would dig in his heels and not change mind no matter what.
1426961;1457461325;nubbins`;and then i made mp angry
1426962;1457461338;nubbins`;and kako got quite upset and said thanks a lot for ruining any chance of getting mp to reverse his decision
1426963;1457461344;nubbins`;which is, well... it is what it is.
1426964;1457461360;nubbins`;you can make of it what you will
1426965;1457461360;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i don't even have a dog in the fight, understand this.
1426966;1457461367;nubbins`;asciilifeform nor do i, understand this!
1426967;1457461374;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you had bbet stock, no ?
1426968;1457461375;nubbins`;i'm fighting for the side of logic and reason
1426969;1457461377;nubbins`;fuck no
1426970;1457461381;asciilifeform;hm
1426971;1457461384;nubbins`;have you seen the financials?
1426972;1457461392;nubbins`;i don't mean feb's
1426973;1457461395;nubbins`;but in general
1426974;1457461412;PeterL;it has more revenue than S.NSA
1426975;1457461431;nubbins`;PeterL anything with revenue has more revenue than s.nsa
1426976;1457461434;hanbot;at the rate this is going, i'd almost rather be sent back to the forum, honestly.
1426977;1457461442;nubbins`;hanbot they wouldn't have you
1426978;1457461457;nubbins`;talking about bitcoin doesn't make you a part of bitcoin, etc
1426979;1457461466;nubbins`;nobody cares who your bf is
1426980;1457461515;nubbins`;asciilifeform i don't own any MPEx stocks, nor am i shorting any MPEx stocks
1426981;1457461546;mircea_popescu;;;seen phf
1426982;1457461547;gribble;phf was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <phf> "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
1426983;1457461553;mircea_popescu;i wonder what happened to him.
1426984;1457461555;*;nubbins` is one of the few to be paid in money for services provided rather than in shares
1426985;1457461575;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he's been gone for longer, before.
1426986;1457461599;nubbins`;understand that being "paid" by mp in shares is just a fish hook
1426987;1457461601;mircea_popescu;yeh. i got this feeling he was hatching somerthing.
1426988;1457461626;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches << still up.
1426989;1457461628;assbot;trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1SP5343 )
1426990;1457461628;asciilifeform;so prolly not dead.
1426991;1457461664;asciilifeform;nubbins`: all shares are fish-hooks? you're a 'jam today' kinda fella ?
1426992;1457461675;nubbins`;asciilifeform no, that's not what i said.
1426993;1457461685;nubbins`;i said shares as remuneration is a fish hook
1426994;1457461709;nubbins`;consider: mircea_popescu wanted to pay for eulora heraldics in stock warrant only
1426995;1457461714;nubbins`;i said no, that's retarded
1426996;1457461735;nubbins`;so got $12k bezzlars worth of btc for the actual work and a fat stock warrant for free
1426997;1457461752;nubbins`;if i'd not recevied any cash, but stock warrant only -- i'd be as broke as you, no?
1426998;1457461858;asciilifeform;nubbins`: do you think it would have made a difference to me, if i had been paid $12k ?
1426999;1457461883;asciilifeform;for one thing, usg would take ~half. and that would buy, wahat, a month of time.
1427000;1457461891;asciilifeform;which i'd mostly have to spend looking for new work.
1427001;1457461932;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what's severances like these days, for non-monkey non-management sorta jobs ? is it true, ibm offer ~what everyone really gets, coupla k's an a lolipop ?
1427002;1457461946;asciilifeform;and also try to understand mircea_popescu's very valid observation re: how turning people into salarymen lowers them into pederasty.
1427003;1457461990;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: variable. but there is a boojum! typically you have to sign 'noncompete' to get the severance. and you have to be sacked, can't leave on own free will. and the sacking can't be 'for cause', etc, etc.
1427004;1457461994;asciilifeform;lotta crud.
1427005;1457462008;mircea_popescu;iirc cali didn't uphold noncompetes for professional folk.
1427006;1457462012;asciilifeform;3 mo. of wage, is typical.
1427007;1457462014;asciilifeform;cali, aha.
1427008;1457462020;asciilifeform;permitted elsewhere.
1427009;1457462021;mircea_popescu;if that still stands as good law.
1427010;1457462025;asciilifeform;iirc it does.
1427011;1457462139;fluffypony;http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/bitcoin/posts/2015-06-10-my-sofa-is-a-sidechain/main.html
1427012;1457462141;assbot;My Sofa is a Sidechain ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyBZYk )
1427013;1457462156;fluffypony;Jorge Stolfi at his best
1427014;1457462198;asciilifeform;fluffypony: blatant rip of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405
1427015;1457462200;assbot;Loper OS » The Simplest Lisp Machine ... ( http://bit.ly/1OU3ZpG )
1427016;1457462270;fluffypony;sure, but what if that's just a blatant rip off of this: https://goo.gl/rpnkFP
1427017;1457462271;assbot;Pet Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyCdio )
1427018;1457462411;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>nubbins`: do you think it would have made a difference to me, if i had been paid $12k ? <<< i'm not saying you should have taken the same amount of $$ for running s.nsa as i should have for a dozen hours' work.
1427019;1457462419;nubbins`;you're putting all sorts of words in my mouth today
1427020;1457462435;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68700 @ 0.00052636 = 36.1609 BTC [+] {4} 
1427021;1457462484;nubbins`;i'm saying that by paying his workers only in shares, mp gets people to work for free.
1427022;1457462493;PeterL;asciilifeform would it have made a difference if you were paid $120k?
1427023;1457462496;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14988 @ 0.00052434 = 7.8588 BTC [-] {2} 
1427024;1457462496;nubbins`;under the illusion that it's for some greater good.
1427025;1457462540;nubbins`;consider that MP has enough money to pay alf double current salary for next decade, cardano could be out in the world, but chooses not to
1427026;1457462556;nubbins`;because he can just give alf a pile of useless shares that he apparently can't even afford to cash out
1427027;1457462568;nubbins`;and there's one more talking head floating around here on mp's side
1427028;1457462868;nubbins`;hey hanbot : http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year/#selection-1025.15-1029.267
1427029;1457462869;assbot;The Lordship list, third year. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/24OPOMi )
1427030;1457462884;nubbins`;you're not doing anything useful, are you?
1427031;1457462901;nubbins`;"being a lord is not an empty honor, but the honor of recognition, by your peers, for a useful purpose. If you aren't doing anything you broadly speaking can't be one, and if you are one it is upon you to show up in court and help settle matters (and in the process help the other lords understand you and predict your future moves)"
1427032;1457462962;nubbins`;also, your fief (F.MPIF) went into hibernation only 6 months after you made it to the lordship list. not a great showing by any measure.
1427033;1457463050;mats;the drama continues
1427034;1457463069;PeterL;mpif is run by mircea_popescu, hanbot only does the throwing coins at bitbet part
1427035;1457463132;nubbins`;lol.
1427036;1457463137;nubbins`;no, she doesn't.
1427037;1457463146;nubbins`;go look at F.MPIF statement, show me coins thrown.
1427038;1457463162;nubbins`;protip: there are none
1427039;1457463183;nubbins`;http://trilema.com/category/fmpif/
1427040;1457463185;assbot;F.MPIF on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/24OQmBG )
1427041;1457463195;PeterL;just a sec, I'll find it eventually
1427042;1457463198;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427033   <<< wanna buy some S.POPCORN shares ?
1427043;1457463198;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 18:50:50; mats: the drama continues
1427044;1457463265;nubbins`;PeterL october 2014 is the most recent month there was any economic activity in/out
1427045;1457463267;PeterL;http://thewhet.net/2016/line-betting-on-bitbet-january-2016/
1427046;1457463268;assbot;Line betting on BitBet, January 2016 | The Whet ... ( http://bit.ly/24OQxgg )
1427047;1457463295;PeterL;I don't see one for february
1427048;1457463331;PeterL;all-time loss at 3.40250561
1427049;1457463338;nubbins`;PeterL: not only that, but the information contained in the post you linked just doesn't appear in the F.MPIF jan financials
1427050;1457463340;nubbins`;http://trilema.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-january-2016-statement/
1427051;1457463341;assbot;MPIF (F.MPIF) January 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/24OQCRk )
1427052;1457463360;nubbins`;PeterL: so if hanbot was betting for F.MPIF PC, why's it not in F.MPIF financials?
1427053;1457463361;PeterL;usually it is there as a small change in the total assets
1427054;1457463371;nubbins`;nope.
1427055;1457463374;nubbins`;no sign.
1427056;1457463398;jurov;she publishes that on thewhet.net
1427057;1457463404;nubbins`;oh, wait, sorry, there it is.
1427058;1457463442;nubbins`;it's just buried in the "assets" section instead of "in/out"
1427059;1457463451;PeterL;http://trilema.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-january-2016-statement/ cash +1.27... tangibles -2.0
1427060;1457463452;assbot;MPIF (F.MPIF) January 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/24OQCRk )
1427061;1457463452;nubbins`;i guess the bet money didn't go out.
1427062;1457463473;nubbins`;PeterL ok so she runs a F.MPIF PC that.... loses money on bitbet.
1427063;1457463475;PeterL;I guess no bets made or resolved in feb
1427064;1457463486;nubbins`;sounds like something you'd give your gf to keep her busy.
1427065;1457463489;PeterL;right, now you get it, serious stuff
1427066;1457463500;nubbins`;yeah, nothing in feb. guess it was getting in the way of diablo
1427067;1457463503;PeterL;should take about 20 seconds a month
1427068;1457463533;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32508 @ 0.00052434 = 17.0452 BTC [-]
1427069;1457463560;PeterL;perhaps the betting strategy should be revised?
1427070;1457463564;nubbins`;"all-time loss at 3.40250561."
1427071;1457463570;nubbins`;perhaps the manager should be revised
1427072;1457463571;nubbins`;lol
1427073;1457463594;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30142 @ 0.00052421 = 15.8007 BTC [-] {2} 
1427074;1457463686;PeterL;but there should still be a statement for february, even if it just a signed statement "no bets made or resolved in February"
1427075;1457463779;mircea_popescu;fluffypony is this some sort of dig at monero or something ?
1427076;1457463795;fluffypony;mircea_popescu: which thing?
1427077;1457463802;mircea_popescu;i dunno, stolfi's nonsense.
1427078;1457463817;fluffypony;no, it's a review of the Bitcoin Sidechains whitepaper
1427079;1457463837;fluffypony;this one: https://blockstream.com/sidechains.pdf
1427080;1457463841;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyESbT )
1427081;1457463844;mircea_popescu;oh oh.
1427082;1457463844;fluffypony;best read consecutively or in conjunction
1427083;1457463901;mircea_popescu;bah, talk of a good idea badly executed. why is this schmuck so humourless ?
1427084;1457463917;mircea_popescu;"As for requirement [4], my sofa may have bugs, such as mites, spiders, or maybe even fleas. However, I have found no evidence on the web that such invertebrates have the power to cause theft of anything, much less theft of digital assets on other sidechains."
1427085;1457463940;mircea_popescu;i... get it. ok. very funny. sigh.
1427086;1457464248;nubbins`;PeterL should be, yeah.
1427087;1457464269;nubbins`;maybe hanbot lost 17 btc and she & mp are trying to come up with some linear algebra to explain it
1427088;1457464342;PeterL;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-03-2016#1419958
1427089;1457464342;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 04:52:38; hanbot: hey mircea_popescu, is it okay if i defer this month's pc4 report and combine in april?
1427090;1457464386;mircea_popescu;PeterL here's the thing : in my scrollback you appear as engaged in a lengthy monologue which twice now highlighted me. are you going to take a break on your own or do i have to ignore you for a while ?
1427091;1457464399;nubbins`;lol
1427092;1457464403;nubbins`;next step: mircea_popescu  ignores people who talk to nubs
1427093;1457464406;nubbins`;quite the kingdom
1427094;1457464429;PeterL;mircea_popescu I am talking with nubbins`, I guess you have him on ignore still?
1427095;1457464439;mircea_popescu;what do you mean "still" ?!
1427096;1457464446;nubbins`;PeterL there were a handful of double-month reports late last year too
1427097;1457464464;nubbins`;i guess hanbot  plays so much diablo and loses so much bet money that doing the books once a month is an unbearable burden
1427098;1457464471;PeterL;was it yesterday you said you were adding him to ignore? I was not sure if you still ignored him
1427099;1457464486;nubbins`;PeterL offending mp is a one way street
1427100;1457464491;mircea_popescu;aite, so now you're sure.
1427101;1457464510;PeterL;I was going to ask earlier, but it seemed like a silly question
1427102;1457464534;nubbins`;PeterL he'd find it way harder to dodge the fraud allegations otherwise
1427103;1457464544;nubbins`;http://deedbot.org/deed-401626-1.txt
1427104;1457464545;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24OSSrN )
1427105;1457464592;PeterL;and it is what, 10 lines if you don't count nubbins` ? that does not seem very lengthy
1427106;1457464679;nubbins`;well, y'know, bruised egos are tender.
1427107;1457464685;nubbins`;ben_vouspes https://blockchain.info/address/1AhQe7VKxvAcnEBbt9mt5iwwxY9LeKbJtR
1427108;1457464686;assbot;Bitcoin Address 1AhQe7VKxvAcnEBbt9mt5iwwxY9LeKbJtR ... ( http://bit.ly/24OT4qU )
1427109;1457464703;nubbins`;ben_vouspes i'm no blockchain analysis expert but that doesn't look like bitbet's money to me
1427110;1457464761;nubbins`;if you trace the chain all the way back, it actually appears to be MPEx's money :0
1427111;1457464802;nubbins`;https://blockchain.info/tx/6ad6de39290431f2077c3e972d72e4fae7eb3bf384a966b9bf7f1c0832e6a7c1
1427112;1457464803;assbot;Bitcoin Transaction 6ad6de39290431f2077c3e972d72e4fae7eb3bf384a966b9bf7f1c0832e6a7c1 ... ( http://bit.ly/24OTm10 )
1427113;1457464831;nubbins`;the 1Gpng output gets successively split up into a bunch of different pieces, and a chunk of it eventually ends up paying out the bettors
1427114;1457464868;nubbins`;so, put another way: mircea_popescu borrowed money from MPEx, sent it to bettors, and charged the expense to BitBet
1427115;1457464876;nubbins`;kakobrekla jurov ^ gibi-lol
1427116;1457464881;nubbins`;asciilifeform ^
1427117;1457464913;nubbins`;bbl lunch / lollercoaster
1427118;1457465525;nubbins`;ben_vouspes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426796 http://pastebin.com/raw/1mrrGXt7
1427119;1457465525;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 17:51:29; ben_vulpes: ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
1427120;1457465526;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24OUJwK )
1427121;1457465839;danielpbarron;;;seen williamdunne
1427122;1457465839;gribble;williamdunne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 25 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <williamdunne> But yah
1427123;1457466001;asciilifeform;nubbins` what's that
1427124;1457466082;nubbins`;asciilifeform that's funds moving out of MPEx address and ending up as inputs to tx "B"
1427125;1457466113;nubbins`;mumble mumble conflict of interest
1427126;1457466131;nubbins`;mumble mumble MPEx funds being sent to bettors and BitBet getting stuck with the bill
1427127;1457466156;williamdunne;danielpbarron: Hello Daniel
1427128;1457466176;danielpbarron;hi
1427129;1457466190;nubbins`;asciilifeform feel free to verify on your own node; blockchain.info may be incorrect
1427130;1457466449;nubbins`;interestingly, 11.5 BTC gets broken off and sent to gabriel_laddel at one point.
1427131;1457466499;nubbins`;sorry, "gabrielradio", my bad
1427132;1457466505;danielpbarron;even if some came or went to lizzard hitler's address it wouldn't prove a damn because this kind of analysis can only be held against ~fiat~ institutions
1427133;1457466560;asciilifeform;nubbins`: fwiw pretty much all of my own coin would appear as 'mpex funds' per your analysis.
1427134;1457466561;danielpbarron;ie : in a qntra about silk road cops running with drug funds or the like
1427135;1457466593;nubbins`;asciilifeform but the difference is that your coin wasn't sent to bettors.
1427136;1457466656;nubbins`;anyway, only looked into it at ben_vouspes urging
1427137;1457466669;nubbins`;interested parties are free to make their own decisions on what it means
1427138;1457466754;nubbins`;given that gabrielradio is ahttp://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2016#1410033
1427139;1457466762;nubbins`;oops! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2016#1410033
1427140;1457466762;assbot;Logged on 19-02-2016 02:24:48; assbot: You rated user gabrielradio on 14-Oct-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Apprentice Trilema translator..
1427141;1457466839;williamdunne;Are people working on translating old Trilema articles from Romanian?
1427142;1457466851;williamdunne;I'm down for working on that, I started learning last week funnily enough..
1427143;1457466952;danielpbarron;where've ya been? for the other 24 weeks?
1427144;1457466978;williamdunne;I got kicked, spent a while picking myself up. Wasn't reading the logs very often, only Trilema and Qntra
1427145;1457466985;williamdunne;Oh and Contravex a little
1427146;1457467010;danielpbarron;kicked?
1427147;1457467045;williamdunne;Difficulty in my personal life, nothing I couldn't recover from (obviously(
1427148;1457467071;ben_vouspes;fucking giga-lol
1427149;1457467126;ben_vouspes;mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true.
1427150;1457467147;danielpbarron;what is personal life? is there impersonal life?
1427151;1457467219;nubbins`;ben_vouspes biggest lol yet.
1427152;1457467228;nubbins`;it basically violates every document MP has ever signed
1427153;1457467239;nubbins`;kakobrekla ^
1427154;1457467251;nubbins`;danielpbarron for many, working hours are impersonal life
1427155;1457467254;williamdunne;danielpbarron: the part of life I wouldn't talk in public
1427156;1457467257;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68400 @ 0.00052402 = 35.843 BTC [-] {6} 
1427157;1457467330;nubbins`;ben_vouspes i can't see any other explanation. mircea_popescu claimed ownership of B's inputs, and they came from MPEx. Best-case scenario, mircea_popescu legitimately received the funds from MPEx and paid the bettors out of pocket. Worse-case scenario, he paid the bettors directly with MPEx funds.
1427158;1457467338;nubbins`;this is the final nail in the fraud coffin
1427159;1457467380;nubbins`;i'm just gonna fuck off for a while and see if anyone bothers to care about all this evidence
1427160;1457467383;nubbins`;cheers
1427161;1457467432;ben_vouspes;all over 17 btc.
1427162;1457467444;ben_vouspes;quelle fucking triste
1427163;1457467497;fluffypony;quelle triste destinée!
1427164;1457467506;*;fluffypony sings
1427165;1457467607;danielpbarron;!rated diana_coman
1427166;1457467607;assbot;You rated user diana_coman on 21-Jul-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: fellow Eulorian; gatherer of groceries, and builder of bots.
1427167;1457467610;danielpbarron;!v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.diana_coman.3:e874ab9653fc33c3f7ec679664111545a565b8d762a8c8d273d8ff060da2c379
1427168;1457467610;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 3 with note: Fellow Euloran; trainer of noobs, builder of bots, gatherer of groceries.
1427169;1457467769;williamdunne;Seems like I chose an exciting time to reappear
1427170;1457467773;williamdunne;Gonna go logdiving
1427171;1457467786;PeterL;bring some popcorn
1427172;1457467821;williamdunne;Whereabouts does all this drama begin?
1427173;1457467839;danielpbarron;i thought you read qntra
1427174;1457467888;PeterL;about last friday?
1427175;1457467921;PeterL;so the 3rd or 4th?
1427176;1457467935;williamdunne;I must have missed this part on Qntra.. ok I'm going in
1427177;1457467963;PeterL;see the "miner problem" qntra article
1427178;1457468102;williamdunne;Yeah the only one I didn't read seemingly
1427179;1457468107;williamdunne;Hot stuff
1427180;1457468863;ben_vouspes;williamdunne: and woefully incomplete. you'll need to read logs back to friday or thursday of last week to get a notion of what's going on.
1427181;1457468882;williamdunne;Yeah I'm on Friday currently
1427182;1457469209;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.00052721 = 13.9183 BTC [+] {3} 
1427183;1457469448;nubbins`;williamdunne http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423536 is roughly around the time i finished reading qntra A Miner Problem article, with the first shot fired shortly thereafter
1427184;1457469448;assbot;Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
1427185;1457469697;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.00052649 = 7.055 BTC [-]
1427186;1457470307;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44990 @ 0.00052767 = 23.7399 BTC [+] {3} 
1427187;1457470808;BingoBoingo;Art project so far, base for impoler http://i.imgur.com/7izudGF.jpg and stuff above. 20' 7" of tree http://i.imgur.com/hLHlToY.jpg
1427188;1457470815;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1R4tkwg )
1427189;1457470820;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1R4tmV0 )
1427190;1457470887;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.85000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b171
1427191;1457471756;deedbot-;[Qntra] New Cross Platform Malware Depends on JVM - http://qntra.net/2016/03/new-cross-platform-malware-depends-on-jvm/
1427192;1457471915;solrodar;nubbins`: I was also paid directly from the same mpex address for this work: http://trilema.com/2015/open-callgraph-for-therealbitcoin-in-svg-format/
1427193;1457471916;assbot;[OPEN] Callgraph for therealbitcoin, in SVG format. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1R4wBMb )
1427194;1457471953;solrodar;all indications were that the payment was in a personal capacity, and it never appeared on the statements of mpex or nsa
1427195;1457471982;solrodar;looks like he's in the habit of using an mpex wallet for personal expenses
1427196;1457471997;solrodar;that isn't necessarily fraudulent, as long as everything's properly accounted for
1427197;1457472041;nubbins`;solrodar petalol, do you have the tx handy?
1427198;1457472047;danielpbarron;even if all the addresses were emptied to 1bitcoineater it wouldn't matter.
1427199;1457472053;solrodar;https://blockchain.info/tx/b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458
1427200;1457472054;assbot;Bitcoin Transaction b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 ... ( http://bit.ly/1R4x4Ox )
1427201;1457472066;nubbins`;lel.
1427202;1457472076;nubbins`;my money, company's money, w/e
1427203;1457472112;solrodar;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213127
1427204;1457472112;assbot;Logged on 26-07-2015 11:04:53; mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
1427205;1457472139;nubbins`;yotta-lol.
1427206;1457472190;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b172
1427207;1457472236;solrodar;of course he would argue that what constitutes "company's money" does not necessarily map directly to addresses on the blockchain
1427208;1457472299;nubbins`;if a single bitcoin address is being used for both "company money" and personal money, that's setting off alarm bells
1427209;1457472322;nubbins`;do you know what they call it when the CEO uses the company's bank account as his own personal bank account also?
1427210;1457472334;danielpbarron;this is like when some celeb gets outed as a womanizer and all the girlies out out of nowhere to retroactively claim he touched her
1427211;1457472343;nubbins`;danielpbarron hush, dear heart
1427212;1457472347;nubbins`;we know it hurts
1427213;1457472367;danielpbarron;i am only growing my confident in my position
1427214;1457472369;nubbins`;solrodar's claims are backed up by mp's own words in the log, and the blockchain
1427215;1457472376;danielpbarron;and more irritated in your persistence nubbins`
1427216;1457472381;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24157 @ 0.00052649 = 12.7184 BTC [-]
1427217;1457472383;danielpbarron;growing more*
1427218;1457472385;nubbins`;you're growing more deaf to reason
1427219;1457472394;solrodar;I'm not accusing him of anything here, just giving a bit of context to the earlier discussion
1427220;1457472414;nubbins`;danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213127
1427221;1457472414;assbot;Logged on 26-07-2015 11:04:53; mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
1427222;1457472451;nubbins`;danielpbarron: https://blockchain.info/tx/b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458/
1427223;1457472452;assbot;Bitcoin Transaction b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 ... ( http://bit.ly/1R4yad6 )
1427224;1457472474;danielpbarron;i hesitate to even attempt reasoning with you, because I believe you have "broken the joystick" so to speak
1427225;1457472487;nubbins`;http://trilema.com/2015/mpex-smpoe-july-2015-statement/
1427226;1457472488;assbot;MPEx (S.MPOE) July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1R4yhp2 )
1427227;1457472503;nubbins`;danielpbarron at this point i feel ok telling you to fuck off.
1427228;1457472510;fluffypony;my wife breaks my joystick like all the time
1427229;1457472534;nubbins`;i just gave you (a) mp saying "thanks, here's your money, here's the tx", (b) the tx comes from mpex (c) the tx is not on mpex's books
1427230;1457472556;nubbins`;if you hesitate to attempt reasoning with these facts, fuck you
1427231;1457472601;nubbins`;i have no interest in reasoning with those who abandon reason
1427232;1457472626;davout;nubbins`: i fail to see how (b) implies (c), I can perfectly have an account on my own exchange, can't I?
1427233;1457472678;nubbins`;this is true
1427234;1457472686;davout;my money is on a paymium-controlled addy, your examination of my withdrawal on the blockchain would conclude to fraud?
1427235;1457472703;asciilifeform;nubbins`: did you miss the part where i point out that ~all of MY coin is just as 'mpex'y
1427236;1457472703;nubbins`;mp could have sent the funds to solrodar from mp's mpex account
1427237;1457472718;asciilifeform;it would look exactly the same if ~i~ had paid the bet winners.
1427238;1457472720;williamdunne;nubbins`: tbf while using the company wallet might be a bad habit, I don't think its an issue in itself, although reading through the logs it seems everything has gone to shit
1427239;1457472723;asciilifeform;from the point of view of nubbins`
1427240;1457472743;asciilifeform;and it would greatly surprise me if most of mircea_popescu's personal coin was not 1 step from mpex
1427241;1457472754;asciilifeform;so what is astonishing, nubbins` ?
1427242;1457472755;davout;nubbins`: i think you made some valid points, but this is not one of them
1427243;1457472758;asciilifeform;^
1427244;1457472764;trinque;if one had invested significantly in the infrastructure for an exchange, it stands to reason that he'd not use this to hold his own funds, and instead would keep it on a usb stick plugged into his fucking pogo
1427245;1457472788;danielpbarron;!rated nubbins`
1427246;1457472788;assbot;You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of -1, and supplied these additional notes: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not.
1427247;1457472790;danielpbarron;!v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-3:d427bdf36173205cad1ccd6b5631df015cf4de72d9b7d150d0a03d7ed949655a
1427248;1457472791;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from -1 to -3 with note: Suffers from the misguided notion that bitcoin companies are subject to the same rules as fiat
1427249;1457472802;nubbins`;davout my logic stretched too far!
1427250;1457472814;nubbins`;danielpbarron is this a race to -10 now?
1427251;1457472820;davout;nubbins`: and I'm out of popcorn!
1427252;1457472830;nubbins`;davout guess we better both rewind
1427253;1457472838;nubbins`;!rated danielpbarron
1427254;1457472838;assbot;You have not rated danielpbarron.
1427255;1457472845;nubbins`;wild
1427256;1457472978;nubbins`;!v assbot:nubbins`.rate.danielpbarron.-10:9cad03701ab6bdc18d16905aafdb5fb5438ae5f7bd07a5cfdf0a756bdf9cdff3
1427257;1457472978;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -10 for danielpbarron with note: Devoted to a man rather than to a cause.
1427258;1457472988;nubbins`;happy now?
1427259;1457473000;danielpbarron;i wear my negative ratings like badges of war
1427260;1457473006;danielpbarron;you are in good company
1427261;1457473016;nubbins`;i'd say you wear your hemorrhoids like badges of war
1427262;1457473019;nubbins`;doesn't make em shiny
1427263;1457473046;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424480
1427264;1457473046;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 13:32:31; danielpbarron: i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it
1427265;1457473054;nubbins`;for shame
1427266;1457473083;danielpbarron;is this a surprising position to come from the guy who believes in God (a man)
1427267;1457473093;nubbins`;not at all.
1427268;1457473111;nubbins`;i didn't say "for surprise"
1427269;1457473118;davout;meanwhile, à paris https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdDm4VKWoAAhgBi.jpg:large
1427270;1457473119;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21Xekvx )
1427271;1457473150;asciilifeform;!rated nubbins`
1427272;1457473150;assbot;You rated user nubbins` on 24-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin.
1427273;1457473158;asciilifeform;i like nubbins` .
1427274;1457473158;nubbins`;here we go
1427275;1457473160;solrodar;!rate nubbins` 0 +1 is making some valid points / -1 is being a complete dick about it
1427276;1457473160;assbot;Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
1427277;1457473167;asciilifeform;and my rating - stands.
1427278;1457473169;nubbins`;alf!
1427279;1457473172;solrodar;):
1427280;1457473172;nubbins`;i like you too
1427281;1457473185;nubbins`;solrodar hate the game, not the player
1427282;1457473197;asciilifeform;but i do recommend to nubbins` , to take a breather
1427283;1457473204;asciilifeform;or he will pop aneurism.
1427284;1457473209;nubbins`;heh.
1427285;1457473223;nubbins`;stress left my vocabulary in early 2013
1427286;1457473240;nubbins`;but duly noted -- will prob just watch these embers and see if they take hold
1427287;1457473244;nubbins`;my guess is, no
1427288;1457473275;nubbins`;will set the stage for the future of TMSR~ either way
1427289;1457473324;nubbins`;also, if you don't send me address for these shirts, i'm sending them to real nsa w/ your name on box 8)
1427290;1457473360;asciilifeform;nubbins`: l0l, meanwhile send my an addr plox, i have been away from home.
1427291;1457473387;asciilifeform;(they will go to the same place as the last crate, if you still have the addr)
1427292;1457473428;asciilifeform;phun phakt, it is a dilapidated post office, where the letters on the sign have fallen off, it is a 'p s ffic' now i think.
1427293;1457473449;asciilifeform;inside ~smells~ of 1972.
1427294;1457473480;asciilifeform;posters on the walls, faded so far that you cannot read even, what they were.
1427295;1457473506;asciilifeform;it represents the side of usg mircea_popescu likes to bring up, the threadbare zimbabwe side.
1427296;1457473695;nubbins`;asciilifeform i will check my records -- may or may not have kept
1427297;1457474166;asciilifeform;nubbins`: no worries, i will send it to you again when i get home.
1427298;1457474488;nubbins`;see pm
1427299;1457474614;asciilifeform;also nubbins` iirc someone else wanted some
1427300;1457474625;asciilifeform;let them first have however many shirts
1427301;1457474632;nubbins`;yes, will pull those first. i think it's only a couple
1427302;1457474844;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.83235000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b174
1427303;1457475233;asciilifeform;wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99...' ??
1427304;1457475332;danielpbarron;someone who wants to mix coins
1427305;1457475352;williamdunne;danielpbarron: And needs them sometime between now and.. um
1427306;1457475368;danielpbarron;strange that they'd do it on a 50/50 bet though
1427307;1457475408;danielpbarron;i never understood the whole "omg when are my winnings comming, i neeeed them!"
1427308;1457475431;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26739 @ 0.00052818 = 14.123 BTC [+] {2} 
1427309;1457475538;nubbins`;williamdunne lol
1427310;1457475557;nubbins`;danielpbarron as of right now it's "are my winnings coming?"
1427311;1457475561;BingoBoingo;<danielpbarron> i never understood the whole "omg when are my winnings comming, i neeeed them!" << General Bitcoin related anxiety from having them away from One's keys
1427312;1457475585;nubbins`;BingoBoingo +1, they're not your winnings until they're in your hands
1427313;1457475618;danielpbarron;no i've specifically seen the argument made from a winner that he needed the funds to seed his next bet
1427314;1457475641;nubbins`;heh
1427315;1457475646;nubbins`;too bad for him, i guess
1427316;1457475655;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: That too
1427317;1457475657;danielpbarron;the solution is a simple one: stop being poor
1427318;1457475664;nubbins`;or stop betting
1427319;1457476499;deedbot-;[Qntra] Elon Musk Venture Remotely Diddles Attentive Owner's Vehicle - http://qntra.net/2016/03/elon-musk-venture-remotely-diddles-attentive-owners-vehicle/
1427320;1457476543;BingoBoingo;;;later tell fluffypony Did you really sign a document about being more polite?
1427321;1457476544;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1427322;1457476602;asciilifeform;http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/03/gchq-uses-mit-speech-to-get-chummy-with-tech-industry-over-crypto-backdoors << l0ltr0nic
1427323;1457476603;assbot;GCHQ uses MIT speech to get chummy with tech industry over crypto backdoors | Ars Technica UK ... ( http://bit.ly/1R68hjp )
1427324;1457476744;asciilifeform;also lulzy, from same rag, http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2016/03/report-elon-musk-tim-cook-and-larry-page-meet-to-halt-trumps-ascendancy
1427325;1457476746;assbot;Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump’s ascendancy | Ars Technica UK ... ( http://bit.ly/220EUR3 )
1427326;1457476804;nubbins`;heh
1427327;1457476822;nubbins`;why don't they meet to institute an idiot harvest instead?
1427328;1457477517;hanbot;so mircea_popescu do you suppose these people were hacked or something, ie some kinda inept Chinese-PR? even without nubbins` meltdown, you have PeterL, the ex-mildmannered professional chemist with a family, going http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427105 like a five year old suddenly, what the fuck is this?!
1427329;1457477517;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 19:16:32; PeterL: and it is what, 10 lines if you don't count nubbins` ? that does not seem very lengthy
1427330;1457477810;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28941 @ 0.0005277 = 15.2722 BTC [-] {3} 
1427331;1457478054;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00052649 = 6.5811 BTC [-]
1427332;1457478203;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Crisis does funny things to people's brains
1427333;1457478634;ben_vouspes;nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
1427334;1457479213;assbot;[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 454 @ 0.0216 = 9.8064 BTC [-] {2} 
1427335;1457479366;mircea_popescu;hanbot nubbins` is just doing his trademark low hanging fruit thing, "what's the lowest effort thing i could possibly do to maintain the pretense i'm doing something". that's his coping mechanism with life, it "worked pretty well" or whatever, it's what he knows, it's what he does. there's a whole stack of these idiots running around like pointless chickens, i dunno that much need be explained.
1427336;1457479382;mircea_popescu;he sat in the chan counting his bellybutton lint for years, making inept arguments about pointless shit - he lost all of them, but hey, as long as mp doesn't come straight out with "you're stupid, go back to school" one needn't notice this actually happened, can just as well pretend that blabla.
1427337;1457479400;mircea_popescu;meanwhile other people did things, and there he sat on ass, thinking to himself "oh heh, am i fucking special - all these idiots are sweating bullets and i think i'm exactly the same as them but much smarter because I'm not even doing anything!". aka sprezzatura, ie what happens when you overfeed and underbeat the children.
1427338;1457479429;mircea_popescu;then that bizarre theory got put to the test and it broke like a bridge made out of rickety reeds and now the unspeakable happened, and there is the mirror and oh god the horror.
1427339;1457479447;mircea_popescu;peterl is kinda the same, trying to hang on to the train, which is moving kinda fast and so on.
1427340;1457479486;mircea_popescu;the whole incident is certainly a fine example of why b-a and the world generally can't work as a "mp supported" thing. gotta be very expensive to be a lord, or else self-flattery is much to powerful a force.
1427341;1457479555;mircea_popescu;williamdunne> Are people working on translating old Trilema articles from Romanian? << there was a guy, gabrielradio, did some so-so work. it is HARD.
1427342;1457479590;mircea_popescu;ben_vouspes> mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true. << one day you'll comprehend what this "there is no bitcoin taint" thing means.
1427343;1457479607;mircea_popescu;and why it is both wrong and stupid to entertain fiatista's pretense of re-interpreting bitcoin in fiatista terms.
1427344;1457479620;mircea_popescu;the point is to crush, not to extend, the relevancy of old world idiocy into the new.
1427345;1457479661;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron> what is personal life? is there impersonal life? << funny enough, this actually came up in the harem recently. i liked the conclusion. public are all matters which can be expressed such that all the individuals who know of them can accept the expression. private is everything else.
1427346;1457479680;mircea_popescu;which is why addition is a public matter and faith, not.
1427347;1457479683;williamdunne;asa si asa, there is my start
1427348;1457479726;mircea_popescu;hehehe. so go for it. but note that the guy was a native speaker. trilema, and especially ro trilema, is incredibly tense. in fact i do not believe harder source text exists in the whole 2k year history of the place.
1427349;1457479728;deedbot-;[Trilema] La Santa Soppressata - http://trilema.com/2016/la-santa-soppressata/
1427350;1457479976;mircea_popescu;williamdunne> nubbins`: tbf while using the company wallet << there is no such thing as "the company wallet".
1427351;1457480056;ben_vouspes;as predicted.
1427352;1457480072;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99 << it's about even money neh ?
1427353;1457480141;williamdunne;mircea_popescu: Do you have anything in particular that you would care to see translated, ideally something that isn't literal poetry? Yeah I've only just started picking RO up, so it would probably be a slow process..
1427354;1457480145;mircea_popescu;assbot> Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump�s ascendancy << somebody's worried about being cutoff from wasting public funds to maintain their "businesses" or wut.
1427355;1457480186;mircea_popescu;williamdunne not that there's any hurry. lemme see, something that's more accessible, perhaps interesting, not very ro context-y...
1427356;1457480232;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2009/viitorul-se-compune-din-spaima/ << try that. shorter, earlier...
1427357;1457480233;assbot;Viitorul se compune din spaima. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/24PlwJa )
1427358;1457480287;diana_coman;williamdunne, for practice, join eulora and I'll offer quests and training in Ro only, no problem
1427359;1457480338;williamdunne;I have an account somewhere, it's time I've been lacking. But if I can pick it up, that would be very kind, thank you
1427360;1457480396;williamdunne;mircea_popescu: Thanks, I'll start working through it
1427361;1457480478;mircea_popescu;a right, diana_coman also native speaker.
1427362;1457480555;assbot;[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 143 @ 0.0209 = 2.9887 BTC [-]
1427363;1457480757;mircea_popescu;ben_vouspes> as predicted. << predicted my foot. you've prolly not even noticed that trilema's previous article was "color of money", or that the current one continues in the "trolling the idiots" vein.
1427364;1457480878;mircea_popescu;also d9b19f22606c66ed66e0271eb52064e61fdbd1c6022aa25b175d691dac12148c4a5e4a7ff00a0971fc35e24ed7909ad195ea38f8d44f1e52fc847deb3c1c8e12
1427365;1457480911;ben_vouspes;mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427333
1427366;1457480911;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 23:10:34; ben_vouspes: nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
1427367;1457480946;mircea_popescu;ben_vouspes now try sha512("(and if you say anything other than "no it was in my mempool" to this list of easy to explain coincidences, you lose)")
1427368;1457481118;ben_vouspes;i have no idea what point you're trying to make.
1427369;1457481136;mircea_popescu;i'm just amusing myself, carry on.
1427370;1457481200;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1427371;1457481207;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 412.15, vol: 5584.85171220 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.0, vol: 5684.28593 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 411.64, vol: 10209.75146076 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 400.0, vol: 13.0417394 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.446436, vol: 39366.03800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.57, vol: 1313.03639734 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.052814, vol: 66.46005481 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1427372;1457481211;BingoBoingo;;;more
1427373;1457481211;gribble;416.637087416
1427374;1457481531;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9135 @ 0.00052649 = 4.8095 BTC [-]
1427375;1457481690;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1427376;1457481693;gribble;Current Blocks: 401773 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1426 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1427377;1457481697;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1427378;1457481698;gribble;1143162073.27
1427379;1457483178;nubbins`;mp sure is zzzzz today
1427380;1457483275;nubbins`;hanbot i just heard about your 58mn ECu loss -- maybe when you're able to do something other than run the mouth and lose money, people might care what you have to say?
1427381;1457483318;nubbins`;until then, you're kinda just a dr. forehead but better at bleeding cash
1427382;1457485100;mats;is this feud going to be an ongoing thing in the logs now
1427383;1457485130;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44195 @ 0.00052785 = 23.3283 BTC [+] {2} 
1427384;1457485149;nubbins`;i was done until mp decided he'd have another shot at his trump impersonation
1427385;1457485360;hanbot;mircea_popescu meh, i guess eskimociuciu has eternal representation so long as the current voice distributes so much chum.
1427386;1457485435;BingoBoingo;!b1
1427387;1457485439;BingoBoingo;!b 1
1427388;1457485440;assbot;Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3TVZRMS.txt )
1427389;1457485448;BingoBoingo;some old references there
1427390;1457485450;hanbot;;;later_tell williamdunne feel free to pm me for ro chat/queries also. though my principle strength seems to be accidentally portmanteauing.
1427391;1457485450;gribble;Error: "later_tell" is not a valid command.
1427392;1457485464;hanbot;;;later tell williamdunne feel free to pm me for ro chat/queries also. though my principle strength seems to be accidentally portmanteauing.
1427393;1457485464;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1427394;1457485479;hanbot;BingoBoingo shit apparently doesn't change much.
1427395;1457485556;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Some things/people change. Others simply change the body they reside in. Reverse of the everybody is MP deal. Everbody is bobciu
1427396;1457485564;BingoBoingo;or ciubob
1427397;1457485709;hanbot;hahaha, sounds about right.
1427398;1457485802;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58479 @ 0.00052907 = 30.9395 BTC [+] {4} 
1427399;1457486450;BingoBoingo;Maybe Husciu Obobma?
1427400;1457486456;BingoBoingo;brb mtg
1427401;1457486838;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67548 @ 0.0005296 = 35.7734 BTC [+] {2} 
1427402;1457486951;TomServo;be right back, magic: the gathering?
1427403;1457486957;nubbins`;^
1427404;1457486997;mircea_popescu;it took five passes until "Reverse of the everybody is MP deal. Everbody is bobciu" coallesced into " Reverse of the (everybody is MP) deal. Everbody is bobciu"
1427405;1457487021;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63972 @ 0.00052757 = 33.7497 BTC [-] {2} 
1427406;1457487031;mircea_popescu;;;ud mtg
1427407;1457487031;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mtg | mtg. stands for Magic: The Gathering. A very good and very popular trading card game by Wizards of the Coast. Far superior to Pokemon but targets an older ...
1427408;1457487044;mircea_popescu;guess it must be.
1427409;1457487105;nubbins`;;;ud parallel conversation
1427410;1457487105;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Parallel+Chatting | The phenomena that occurs when an online chat morphs into two parallel conversations, usually as a result of one person continuing a conversation w...
1427411;1457487115;danielpbarron;i used to play it; still got my cards
1427412;1457487144;TomServo;same.  I should prolly divest them along with my bitcoins, eh?
1427413;1457487189;mircea_popescu;does it exist online or is it actually cards in person thing ?
1427414;1457487197;TomServo;both, I believe
1427415;1457487294;danielpbarron;i mostly did cards in person. there was a windows client called apprentice i used a little
1427416;1457487570;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40403 @ 0.00052649 = 21.2718 BTC [-]
1427417;1457487936;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50834 @ 0.00052649 = 26.7636 BTC [-]
1427418;1457488385;mircea_popescu;i think i actually might have played this on the ipad  back when i did teh "literature survey" for s.mg
1427419;1457488506;nubbins`;til mp owns an ipad
1427420;1457488527;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427354 << when pigs fly to orbit
1427421;1457488527;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 23:35:45; mircea_popescu: assbot> Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump�s ascendancy << somebody's worried about being cutoff from wasting public funds to maintain their "businesses" or wut.
1427422;1457488576;asciilifeform;e.g., palantir, has higher priority than post office, literally
1427423;1457488600;mircea_popescu;you're kidding, right ?
1427424;1457488607;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75550 @ 0.00052604 = 39.7423 BTC [-] {2} 
1427425;1457488609;asciilifeform;nope
1427426;1457488614;mircea_popescu;mcdonalds has higher priority than walmart, which has higher priority than the army.
1427427;1457488629;mircea_popescu;palantir may be above elon musk, but the whole thing is a "youth communist movement" side project.
1427428;1457488631;mircea_popescu;gone in a weekend.
1427429;1457488634;asciilifeform;you haven't seen the post in my town...
1427430;1457488642;mircea_popescu;makes no diff.
1427431;1457488658;mircea_popescu;what was that derpy soviet thing that wanted to be an independent art movement ?
1427432;1457488709;*;asciilifeform brb 
1427433;1457488727;mircea_popescu;gorn!
1427434;1457488912;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57454 @ 0.00052619 = 30.2317 BTC [+]
1427435;1457488973;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20766 @ 0.00052637 = 10.9306 BTC [+]
1427436;1457490742;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148790 @ 0.00052967 = 78.8096 BTC [+] {2} 
1427437;1457490778;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg3642934#msg3642934
1427438;1457490780;assbot;BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1p6Dw0X )
1427439;1457490813;nubbins`;from the mouth of hanbot : "Failing to use tx fees is mooching. Using a (notoriously inept) "service" that fails to use tx fees is also mooching."
1427440;1457490864;nubbins`;also from the mouth of hanbot: "You weren't caught in some occult and unknowable coincidence that was out of your hands. You either didn't make sure you understood the basics of using bitcoin, or else you decided not to care. In either case, it is you that will have to adjust (and I do earnestly hope that you do; there are a lot of resources on this very forum, on IRC, and around the web that can help)."
1427441;1457490895;nubbins`;this level of irony borders on vulgarity.
1427442;1457490990;nubbins`;At any rate, this isn't a chastisement. If you fuck up to this degree, you're stuck having fucked up.
1427443;1457491514;danielpbarron;also from that thread >> If a couple of pools were interested in bobbaing up MP's reputation, they could start taking longer to include transactions into blocks if bitbet addresses are involved. Just take care to not wait for way too many blocks, otherwise the pool's reputation get fucked.
1427444;1457491535;mircea_popescu;this, iirc, is in the bbet statement.
1427445;1457491613;nubbins`;pool reputation
1427446;1457491644;nubbins`;danielpbarron: do you agree with hanbot in the linked thread that failing to use tx fees is mooching?
1427447;1457492008;danielpbarron;the two situations aren't really comparable; in the case to which she was referring, the 0-fee transaction was spending an output that only had 162 confirmations, several thousand less than the youngest output spent in the now infamous 'A1'
1427448;1457492023;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101950 @ 0.000529 = 53.9316 BTC [-] {3} 
1427449;1457492056;nubbins`;danielpbarron her statement doesn't contain the qualifiers you mention -- by my understanding of english syntax, she's making a blanket statement.
1427450;1457492093;kakobrekla;they also arent comparable in a sense not having full mempools in 2013 and having full mempools in 2016.
1427451;1457492095;nubbins`;she didn't say "failing to use tx fees for an output with only X confirmations is mooching"
1427452;1457492120;nubbins`;this is also true.
1427453;1457492142;nubbins`;mempools in 2013 were ghost towns, and there's hanbot still saying that 0-fee is for idiots
1427454;1457492153;nubbins`;fast-forward to 2016 mempool backlog of enormous size...
1427455;1457492155;kakobrekla;perhaps full and nonfull is not the best word as they cant be really full, just large or small.
1427456;1457492194;nubbins`;...0-fee is not for idiots?
1427457;1457492201;nubbins`;does not compute
1427458;1457492267;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79097 @ 0.00052788 = 41.7537 BTC [-] {2} 
1427459;1457492369;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i need the quote
1427460;1457492374;asciilifeform;nubbins`: for the crate.
1427461;1457492386;asciilifeform;you forgot the actual cost.
1427462;1457492478;nubbins`;;;calc 150/[ticker --last]
1427463;1457492479;gribble;0.364999026669
1427464;1457492483;nubbins`;^
1427465;1457492510;nubbins`;sorry, wait, wrong currency
1427466;1457492519;nubbins`;;;calc 111.61/[ticker --last]
1427467;1457492520;gribble;0.27158360911
1427468;1457492521;nubbins`;^
1427469;1457492526;asciilifeform;ty nubbins`
1427470;1457492528;nubbins`;np
1427471;1457492725;asciilifeform;that must be a refrigerator-sized crate??
1427472;1457492816;nubbins`;just extremely heavy
1427473;1457492864;asciilifeform;ah
1427474;1457492865;nubbins`;and, if you'll take a look at a map of north america, twodogland is very, very far away from major shipping hubs
1427475;1457492874;nubbins`;cripples our online store, let me tell ya
1427476;1457492877;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66324 @ 0.00052734 = 34.9753 BTC [-]
1427477;1457492942;asciilifeform;makes sense.
1427478;1457493365;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00052734 = 20.0389 BTC [-]
1427479;1457493853;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25746 @ 0.00052734 = 13.5769 BTC [-]
1427480;1457493957;BingoBoingo;<TomServo> be right back, magic: the gathering? << meeting, for my improvement
1427481;1457494277;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427413 << my brother was once a game programmer, for a co. that has died many years ago, and they had the contract of producing the 'official' mtg client. he had to learn the rules of the game, with much loathing, and play it for year+ straigh, all day, every day, with loathing, possibly more hours than just about anyone alive in total. still can barel
1427482;1457494277;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 01:33:09; mircea_popescu: does it exist online or is it actually cards in person thing ?
1427483;1457494277;asciilifeform;y stand to hear it mentioned !
1427484;1457494277;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1427485;1457494296;asciilifeform;client AND server.
1427486;1457494306;asciilifeform;monstrous thing, it was.
1427487;1457494359;*;BingoBoingo did not think his abbreviation would be construed to have that meaning. Was just mundane Tuesday sober meeting.
1427488;1457494393;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427419 << he bought it to play games, and told the story in the logz, it was lulzy
1427489;1457494393;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 01:55:06; nubbins`: til mp owns an ipad
1427490;1457494437;nubbins`;BingoBoingo how was the coffee
1427491;1457494455;*;nubbins` enjoys thick black coffee that makes his throat feel the way it felt when he smoked cigs
1427492;1457494455;BingoBoingo;nubbins`: A bit watery as is the 13th tradition
1427493;1457494498;nubbins`;phun phact, the first drip coffee machine i ever owned, i was making double-strength pots for the first 6 months until i made a cup for a guest one day
1427494;1457494501;nubbins`;"wtf is this tar?"
1427495;1457494697;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427352 << why would i put in 1 btc to get 0.99 out !?!??!
1427496;1457494697;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 23:34:32; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99 << it's about even money neh ?
1427497;1457494706;asciilifeform;(if ~win~ !)
1427498;1457494733;asciilifeform;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << match starts in, iirc, 20 min.
1427499;1457494734;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 3 hours 38 minutes ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )
1427500;1457494768;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39355 @ 0.0005258 = 20.6929 BTC [-] {3} 
1427501;1457494905;nubbins`;pretty even odds there
1427502;1457495134;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6954 @ 0.00052675 = 3.663 BTC [+]
1427503;1457495176;asciilifeform;https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/138 << prb lulz
1427504;1457495178;assbot;Headfirst mining by gavinandresen · Pull Request #138 · bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TrmqHX )
1427505;1457495364;asciilifeform;how the FUCK does anyone use 'pywallet.'
1427506;1457495370;asciilifeform;9 times of 10 it gives 'corrupted wallet'
1427507;1457495379;asciilifeform;that trb chokes on, during rescan, and quits.
1427508;1457495503;asciilifeform;so i go and send on another box and guess what, it had previous trb, and tx is high-s.
1427509;1457495523;asciilifeform;nubbins`: txid in pm. but this is sad.
1427510;1457495567;nubbins`;"Transaction rejected by our node. Reason: Non-canonical signature: High S Value"
1427511;1457495576;asciilifeform;they should ALL burn.
1427512;1457495604;nubbins`;maybe try sending again from MPEx funds and then bill it to bitbet?
1427513;1457495607;asciilifeform;the miners, the imbecile komyooonity, the faux nodes, the lot.
1427514;1457495607;nubbins`;X)
1427515;1457495619;asciilifeform;nubbins`: this clearly comes next!111
1427516;1457495624;nubbins`;heeeee
1427517;1457496179;adlai;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFr3K2DORc8 !
1427518;1457496180;assbot;Match 1 - Google DeepMind Challenge Match: Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1p6LBCR )
1427519;1457496211;adlai;huh, google's stream is borked
1427520;1457496310;adlai;seems to work now.
1427521;1457496413;mircea_popescu;!up rrtgzg
1427522;1457496420;mircea_popescu;wait, did the korean lose ?
1427523;1457496453;nubbins`;fun fact, go is called baduk in korea
1427524;1457496459;*;nubbins` has a nice baduk set
1427525;1457496537;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31780 @ 0.00053049 = 16.859 BTC [+]
1427526;1457496608;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla> they also arent comparable in a sense << or in the sense of "case 1 is a derpy kid who tried his derpy time-arbitrage scheme without having the first clue as to what that entails, then whined to be made whole when it blew up" vs "case 2 - someone came into a shop, shot a patron, and now the business is charging the carpet cleaning against on its expense account". hurr durr, "the police should pay for the ca
1427527;1457496608;mircea_popescu;rpet" and herp derp "i'm running a broken matching engine and find things to 'support' my nonsensical rabidism anywhere i look!!1"
1427528;1457496668;asciilifeform;fucktardedly, the talkingheads of alphago are prattling in front of an ~empty~ vertical go board. The game per se is a small corner inset !
1427529;1457496722;asciilifeform;or hm, now switched to sane picture...
1427530;1457496953;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform liveblog for me plox ? if you're watching this ?
1427531;1457496980;asciilifeform;i will be for anoher few min, falling asleep
1427532;1457497004;asciilifeform;adlai had link earlier if someone wants to see.
1427533;1457497129;asciilifeform;the game is ~dozen mov. in.
1427534;1457497180;asciilifeform;machine is playing timidly
1427535;1457497190;asciilifeform;if that is the word.
1427536;1457497269;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.00053073 = 32.693 BTC [+]
1427537;1457497274;mircea_popescu;mkay ima pull this on a projector.
1427538;1457497279;mircea_popescu;running outta screens here ;/
1427539;1457497343;mircea_popescu;omfg what is with the talking schmucks.
1427540;1457497380;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i could not endure them, cut the audio.
1427541;1457497399;mircea_popescu;i only see the gesturing. is there a proper feed of this ?
1427542;1457497406;asciilifeform;srsly it feels like an american election crud vid
1427543;1457497408;adlai;"it's numbers that i don't really understand. it's just really large numbers"
1427544;1457497441;mircea_popescu;jesus the actual game is on the insert to the right ? wtf is with that country srsly.
1427545;1457497459;mircea_popescu;also why is googlebot playing like a fucking housewife.
1427546;1457497477;mircea_popescu;are we going to see a line from sea to sea before this is done ?
1427547;1457497486;asciilifeform;i said.
1427548;1457497495;mircea_popescu;!s housewife
1427549;1457497496;assbot;41 results for 'housewife' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=housewife
1427550;1457497513;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10035 @ 0.00053049 = 5.3235 BTC [-]
1427551;1457497519;mircea_popescu;so you did omg.
1427552;1457497529;mircea_popescu;i thought i had come up with it on my own! turns out it's from logs ?
1427553;1457497542;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427534
1427554;1457497542;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 04:19:40; asciilifeform: machine is playing timidly
1427555;1457497554;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it looks pretty poorly for the bot atm.
1427556;1457497565;asciilifeform;but somebody (adlai?) noted that earlier games were similar
1427557;1457497573;mircea_popescu;ie slow to start ?
1427558;1457497578;mircea_popescu;wins on complexity tail end ?
1427559;1457497598;asciilifeform;the box plays very conservatively and waits for meat player to slip
1427560;1457497607;mircea_popescu;aha
1427561;1457497625;adlai;except it seemed in its games against Fan Hui (EU champion) that it never fully capitalized on slips
1427562;1457497648;mircea_popescu;i'm kinda surprised they didn't brand the table.
1427563;1457497653;adlai;just kept playing the most "consolidating" moves
1427564;1457497831;mircea_popescu;if it makes the 5 line i'm gonna stop watching this.
1427565;1457497842;mircea_popescu;SLITGHTLY better.
1427566;1457497852;mircea_popescu;"who plays like this!"
1427567;1457497858;mircea_popescu;"well... nobody, really."
1427568;1457497889;asciilifeform;i am nearly through
1427569;1457498061;mircea_popescu;also interesting how they tuned the depth search. playing very fast early.
1427570;1457498062;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56050 @ 0.00052784 = 29.5854 BTC [-]
1427571;1457498071;mircea_popescu;apparently google thinks early game not so important in go.
1427572;1457498087;mircea_popescu;certainly go with the whole "not really playing, just waiting for human player donations"
1427573;1457498135;asciilifeform;and whats with the derps walking hunched in front of the camera
1427574;1457498165;mircea_popescu;i kinda appreciate the irony of the talk radio derps having chairs but only for display, not to sit in
1427575;1457498179;asciilifeform;and yes it's a flytrap
1427576;1457498183;deedbot-;[Qntra] FBI Agents Investigated For Misconduct In Lavoy Finicum's Murder While Insisting Slaying Was Justified - http://qntra.net/2016/03/fbi-agents-investigated-for-misconduct-in-lavoy-finicums-murder-while-insisting-slaying-was-justified/
1427577;1457498186;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> and whats with the derps walking hunched in front of the camera << It's a common reflex among people who don't grok how cameras work in relation to their body.
1427578;1457498187;asciilifeform;waits, waits.
1427579;1457498228;mircea_popescu;oh my fucking god.
1427580;1457498232;mircea_popescu;enough of this stupid shit.
1427581;1457498272;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform alphago can't play, for srsly.
1427582;1457498293;*;asciilifeform turning in. sznore.
1427583;1457498402;adlai;unfortunately it seems their target audience are those who just channel surfed their way over from tennis
1427584;1457498533;mircea_popescu;why, they added yelps and some young buttocks ?
1427585;1457498686;adlai;it's helpful for people who have never actually played go but the 9p (lighter suit, who does most of the talking) is a little wasted, explaining these most basic things
1427586;1457498696;adlai;"it's really complicated, yeah" instead of ...
1427587;1457498752;adlai;aha. this is the english commentary, and on the other side of the wall is the korean commentary. they probably speak real go terms over there.
1427588;1457498917;mircea_popescu;is michael redmond actually working on the google side ?
1427589;1457498921;adlai;goodnight asciilifeform
1427590;1457498934;adlai;michael redmond is working on the "lee sedol's new haircut" side
1427591;1457498965;mircea_popescu;is there actually any other 9 dan anglo guy ?
1427592;1457498985;adlai;nope
1427593;1457499018;adlai;watts:zen :: redmond:go
1427594;1457499953;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76700 @ 0.00052611 = 40.3526 BTC [-] {2} 
1427595;1457500746;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47700 @ 0.00052755 = 25.1641 BTC [+] {2} 
1427596;1457500837;BingoBoingo;lulz! https://archive.is/090h9
1427597;1457500838;assbot;Ideal Conceal - Concealed Carry, CCW, Best Concealed Carry ... ( http://bit.ly/1U2Uo5x )
1427598;1457500854;BingoBoingo;Looks like a ipNohe
1427599;1457500896;pete_dushenski;the price is right. $395 is ~half iphone
1427600;1457500932;pete_dushenski;100% more parts are 'made in america' with gun than with phone too
1427601;1457500968;BingoBoingo;I didn't look into it that far.
1427602;1457500999;pete_dushenski;;;ud bobbaing
1427603;1457500999;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bobbaing | ... Thai · Turkish · Ukrainian · Vietnamese · Help translate! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. There aren't any definitions for bobbaing yet. Can you define it? Define it! Random Word ...
1427604;1457501019;pete_dushenski;like propping, perhaps
1427605;1457501035;BingoBoingo;;;seen eskimobob
1427606;1457501035;gribble;eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <EskimoBob> no idea how executions are shown on btct
1427607;1457501067;pete_dushenski;eskimobob would've never asked that question about trilema
1427608;1457501077;pete_dushenski;s/asked/had
1427609;1457501265;BingoBoingo;Eh. Maybe I'm just confused. Today was a good day so brain exhausted.
1427610;1457501351;pete_dushenski;l0l
1427611;1457501397;BingoBoingo;Seriously picking up a reciprocating saw was a great move.
1427612;1457501397;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427504 << read as 'headfist mining by gavinandresen', thought this sounded like a brighter, cheekier side of the old coon.
1427613;1457501397;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 03:46:18; assbot: Headfirst mining by gavinandresen · Pull Request #138 · bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TrmqHX )
1427614;1457501467;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427505 << have you tried funky's patch for importprivkey ? has... anyone here tried it that can share feedback on the experience ?
1427615;1457501467;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 03:49:24; asciilifeform: how the FUCK does anyone use 'pywallet.'
1427616;1457501758;trinque;pete_dushenski: his patches have never failed me; the wallet itself on the other hand does consistently
1427617;1457501774;trinque;loses track of balance and I have to delete wallet.dat and reimport the key
1427618;1457501783;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67800 @ 0.00052554 = 35.6316 BTC [-] {4} 
1427619;1457501792;trinque;!rated funkenstein
1427620;1457501792;assbot;funkenstein is not registered in WoT.
1427621;1457501796;trinque;wat
1427622;1457501799;pete_dushenski;trinque: LOSES TRACK ???!
1427623;1457501811;pete_dushenski;there's an underscore at the end
1427624;1457501817;trinque;!rated funkenstein_
1427625;1457501817;assbot;You have not rated funkenstein_.
1427626;1457501862;trinque;!rate funkenstein 1 wrote a useful patch for importprivkey
1427627;1457501862;assbot;funkenstein is not registered in WoT.
1427628;1457501870;trinque;!rate funkenstein_ 1 wrote a useful patch for importprivkey
1427629;1457501871;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/defddc212c573414
1427630;1457501886;pete_dushenski;!rate petertodd -5 posturer who misrepresents privacy vis-a-vis bitcoin http://archive.is/FuMrf#selection-1137.257-1139.180
1427631;1457501887;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6ca7f2f24cf863c4
1427632;1457501889;assbot;Bitcoin at crossroads: The Canadians who may have saved virtual currency — or ruined it ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbFx6W )
1427633;1457501896;trinque;!v assbot:trinque.rate.funkenstein_.1:14d8a2667fdf7203f1ae25b4cd8664ffb4360eab136e4ee9eb22f7a4101b9de2
1427634;1457501896;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 1 for funkenstein_ with note: wrote a useful patch for importprivkey
1427635;1457501924;trinque;;;later tell funkenstein_ hey, regrind your vpatch and I'll sign it
1427636;1457501924;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1427637;1457501966;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13981 @ 0.00052539 = 7.3455 BTC [-] {4} 
1427638;1457501993;trinque;pete_dushenski: yep, I have seen a negative balance often
1427639;1457502031;trinque;rather than dissect it, I wish to stop using the wallet entirely (as I did before with btcd) and just write a sendrawtxn for shiva
1427640;1457502034;trinque;when I find time.
1427641;1457502040;pete_dushenski;were you importing into wallets that already had a balance ? just trying to understand the boundaries of this phenomenon
1427642;1457502070;trinque;it may be limited to the sendmany RPC; that's what I'm using
1427643;1457502204;trinque;did this to have exact control over what fee is sent
1427644;1457502223;trinque;I also had to lower a constant which didn't seem worth its own vpatch
1427645;1457502288;pete_dushenski;trinque: have you tried 'sendtoaddress' as well ?
1427646;1457502428;trinque;I haven't. doesn't that send change back to some other address which is part of the "account" ?
1427647;1457502516;pete_dushenski;i believe so
1427648;1457502533;trinque;yeah, I want the change coming right back to the deed address, so I use sendmany and explicitly state the change
1427649;1457502545;pete_dushenski;that makes sense
1427650;1457502559;trinque;then the balance goes to -0.0002 (fee + deed spend) so I smell a floating point fuckup
1427651;1457502633;pete_dushenski;and it just stays like that indefinitely, but still allows for further spending ?
1427652;1457502643;trinque;allows no spending
1427653;1457502645;trinque;I must reimport :p
1427654;1457502658;pete_dushenski;omgerd that's lame
1427655;1457502658;trinque;if only it were possible to select the transactions referencing a given address whose outputs are referenced by no other transaction's inputs
1427656;1457502668;trinque;some kind of... query... or something
1427657;1457502681;trinque;no we should have getutxos instead!
1427658;1457502687;trinque;because reasons, and databases never happened
1427659;1457502841;pete_dushenski;in any event, that's some seriously bizarre wallet behaviour
1427660;1457502852;trinque;ayep
1427661;1457502861;trinque;I'm off to bed, gnite!
1427662;1457502866;pete_dushenski;cheers
1427663;1457502886;pete_dushenski;in other turning-shit-into-gold news, http://en.rocketnews24.com/2015/04/15/japanese-craftsmen-strike-again-make-old-beat-up-book-look-as-good-as-new/
1427664;1457502887;assbot;Japanese craftsmen strike again: Make an old, beaten-up book look as good as new | RocketNews24 ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbGPPo )
1427665;1457502917;pete_dushenski;they got me with the mini-iron
1427666;1457503278;mircea_popescu;it's losing, is it
1427667;1457503718;adlai;they've forgotten two stones in the analysis board
1427668;1457503731;adlai;white on J1 and black on J2
1427669;1457503796;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89038 @ 0.00052999 = 47.1892 BTC [+] {3} 
1427670;1457503897;mircea_popescu;seems altogether dubious the computer is even 2 dan. just one game, sure, but...
1427671;1457504223;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00052698 = 5.059 BTC [-] {2} 
1427672;1457504281;adlai;more technicaly commentary at https://www.youtube.com/user/USGOWeb/live and the game's moves on a clicky board where you can go back and forth at https://online-go.com/demo/114161
1427673;1457504282;assbot;AlphaGo ?p vs Lee Sedol 9p, 0400 UTC (8pm PST) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbIR29 )
1427674;1457504283;assbot;The best place to play go online! ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbIRir )
1427675;1457504589;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00052698 = 18.5497 BTC [-]
1427676;1457505152;adlai;heh redmond is (more often than not) correctly predicting both players' moves
1427677;1457505227;deedbot-;[Trilema] The King of Comedy - http://trilema.com/2016/the-king-of-comedy/
1427678;1457505619;mircea_popescu;trinque> rather than dissect it, I wish to stop using the wallet entirely (as I did before with btcd) and just write a sendrawtxn for shiva <<< a raw tx manipulator for trb is prolly a very useful item, really.
1427679;1457505685;mircea_popescu;trinque> some kind of... query... or something << heh.
1427680;1457505731;mircea_popescu;and in other goodnight news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/46dad3e52c8433bc64e655fc5532e7fb/tumblr_methweCg4H1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1427681;1457505731;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbKAVb )
1427682;1457506306;fluffypony;BingoBoingo: we signed it by show of hands - it was just a commitment to encourage tolerance and respect in the ecosystem, and if any of our employees overstep that we will reprimand them
1427683;1457506384;fluffypony;I generally agree with the "don't be a giant douchenozzle" principle, and as long as employees are operating in any capacity representing one of my companies they don't have permission to be a giant douchenozzle on my behalf (what they do in their own time and of their own volition I don't care about)
1427684;1457506789;adlai;first blood! lee sedol captures an alphago stone
1427685;1457507456;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75952 @ 0.00053008 = 40.2606 BTC [+]
1427686;1457507944;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69500 @ 0.00052906 = 36.7697 BTC [-]
1427687;1457508891;adlai;lee sedol resigns. wtf?
1427688;1457509017;fluffypony;I dunno
1427689;1457509957;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79398 @ 0.00052973 = 42.0595 BTC [+] {4} 
1427690;1457510201;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00052987 = 17.2208 BTC [+]
1427691;1457510262;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44350 @ 0.00052906 = 23.4638 BTC [-]
1427692;1457510872;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68050 @ 0.00052906 = 36.0025 BTC [-]
1427693;1457512702;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26620 @ 0.00052932 = 14.0905 BTC [+]
1427694;1457513129;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75700 @ 0.00052927 = 40.0657 BTC [-]
1427695;1457515508;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4180 @ 0.0005291 = 2.2116 BTC [-]
1427696;1457516096;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b32
1427697;1457516362;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74370 @ 0.00052907 = 39.3469 BTC [-] {2} 
1427698;1457516702;davout;bonjour à tous!
1427699;1457516972;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95300 @ 0.00052902 = 50.4156 BTC [-] {2} 
1427700;1457517645;punkman;adlai: lee sedol resigns. wtf? << interesting. maybe someone should open another bet? you'd get nice odds betting on "No" now
1427701;1457518436;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00052901 = 3.756 BTC [-]
1427702;1457518558;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20221 @ 0.00052818 = 10.6803 BTC [-] {3} 
1427703;1457518985;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28609 @ 0.00052927 = 15.1419 BTC [+]
1427704;1457519107;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36150 @ 0.00052927 = 19.1331 BTC [+]
1427705;1457520510;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50566 @ 0.00052634 = 26.6149 BTC [-] {4} 
1427706;1457521486;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45088 @ 0.00052519 = 23.6798 BTC [-] {4} 
1427707;1457521547;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13327 @ 0.00052518 = 6.9991 BTC [-]
1427708;1457523133;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68877 @ 0.00052746 = 36.3299 BTC [+] {2} 
1427709;1457523845;punkman;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427481 I remember the official client was impossibly clunky and annoying when I used it. Must have been an epic quest to cover all the edge cases in the game's rules. "Apprentice" was kinda cool, just gave you a tabletop and you had to manually make all the moves.
1427710;1457523845;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 03:31:17; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427413 << my brother was once a game programmer, for a co. that has died many years ago, and they had the contract of producing the 'official' mtg client. he had to learn the rules of the game, with much loathing, and play it for year+ straigh, all day, every day, with loathing, possibly more hours than just about anyone alive
1427711;1457523865;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10081 @ 0.00052615 = 5.3041 BTC [-]
1427712;1457524018;punkman;I played online tournaments with Apprentice a lot for a while. Now I wonder what kind of security/crypto the thing implemented, if any.
1427713;1457524124;punkman;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprentice_%28software%29#Backwash oh right
1427714;1457524125;assbot;Apprentice (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/222cKoN )
1427715;1457524271;punkman;http://apprentice.nu/ 2.0 apparently lets you play any kind of card game
1427716;1457524272;assbot;Apprentice ... ( http://bit.ly/1px2kjd )
1427717;1457526000;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75909 @ 0.00052637 = 39.9562 BTC [+]
1427718;1457528379;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00052656 = 3.5806 BTC [+]
1427719;1457528483;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427602 << it's an auto-completion i set long ago to replace vulgar words; it's from habbo hotel
1427720;1457528483;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 05:23:19; pete_dushenski: ;;ud bobbaing
1427721;1457528584;danielpbarron;removed them after that paste; it only ever effected pasted, as I rarely type the words it would replace
1427722;1457528605;jurov;https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DdIVwSiH2A4/Vs2xJ76mDYI/AAAAAAAJ74o/_axPXhilkrU/w606-h403-no/1.gif
1427723;1457528608;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sz8fQf )
1427724;1457529294;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60150 @ 0.00052574 = 31.6233 BTC [-] {4} 
1427725;1457529601;mircea_popescu;adlai> lee sedol resigns. wtf? << are they buying this or wtf.
1427726;1457529716;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427526
1427727;1457529716;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 04:10:08; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> they also arent comparable in a sense << or in the sense of "case 1 is a derpy kid who tried his derpy time-arbitrage scheme without having the first clue as to what that entails, then whined to be made whole when it blew up" vs "case 2 - someone came into a shop, shot a patron, and now the business is charging the carpet cleaning against on its expense account". hurr durr, "the police sh
1427728;1457529724;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo this prolly shoujld be qntra
1427729;1457529735;nubbins`;kakobrekla it would seem that your continued refusal to kiss MP's ring has finally directed his rage towards you
1427730;1457529747;nubbins`;gonna be weird running a business with a scammer who hates you
1427731;1457529797;mircea_popescu;"I was very surprised," said Lee after the match. "I didn't expect to lose. I didn't think AlphaGo would play the game in such a perfect manner.
1427732;1457529800;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was just about to say
1427733;1457529808;asciilifeform;looks like he's throwing the match ?
1427734;1457529812;mircea_popescu;pretty trippy.
1427735;1457529828;mircea_popescu;DeepMind founder Demis Hassabis expressed "huge respect for Lee Se-dol and his amazing skills," calling the game "hugely exciting" and "very tense." Team lead David Silver said it was an "amazing game of Go that really pushed AlphaGo to its limits."
1427736;1457529828;assbot;AMAZING COMPANY!
1427737;1457529833;mircea_popescu;are these people off their fucking rocker ?
1427738;1457529840;mircea_popescu;do they play a different go where they're from ?
1427739;1457529878;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the folks who work on bots, largely don't play (with any degree of seriousness)
1427740;1457529879;mircea_popescu;"I don�t regret accepting this challenge," said Lee. "I am in shock, I admit that, but what's done is done. I enjoyed this game and look forward to the next. I think I failed on the opening layout so if I do a better job on the opening aspect I think I will be able to increase my probability of winning."
1427741;1457529883;mircea_popescu;holy shit. what !
1427742;1457529894;mircea_popescu;he expects he lost ON THE EARLY GAME ?!
1427743;1457529965;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65050 @ 0.00052498 = 34.1499 BTC [-] {5} 
1427744;1457529984;nubbins`;more like "case 2: the shop pays a cleaner once a month to clean rugs. random asshole thought the rug cleaners weren't coming so he paid a second rug cleaning service to clean the rugs. then the regular rug cleaners came and cleaned the rug again. then random asshole tries to bill the shop for a needless rug cleaning that he ordered himself"
1427745;1457529995;mircea_popescu;in other korean news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/4be2b49cdae985da75fe2dfa77328553/tumblr_methp93NfS1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1427746;1457529999;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Szb6sh )
1427747;1457530003;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427744
1427748;1457530003;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 13:26:24; nubbins`: more like "case 2: the shop pays a cleaner once a month to clean rugs. random asshole thought the rug cleaners weren't coming so he paid a second rug cleaning service to clean the rugs. then the regular rug cleaners came and cleaned the rug again. then random asshole tries to bill the shop for a needless rug cleaning that he ordered himself"
1427749;1457530024;nubbins`;mp's analogies are so muddled that they're not even decipherable
1427750;1457530033;nubbins`;protip: analogies must be analogous.
1427751;1457530060;*;nubbins` wanders away
1427752;1457530148;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.0005245 = 25.6481 BTC [-]
1427753;1457530268;shinohai;not unlike: http://www.ktuu.com/news/nation/person-complains-about-airport-noise-6500-times/38403212
1427754;1457530269;assbot;Person complains about airport noise 6,500 times | National News - KTUU.com Anchorage ... ( http://bit.ly/1SzbOG0 )
1427755;1457530399;*;mircea_popescu is incredibly fucking glad he never gave in to the temptation as a child, and systematically never regarded go as anything above or beyond parlor trick to entertain oneself with teh nude houri postcoitally, in spite of perhaps reasonable and well reasoned arguments to the contrary.
1427756;1457530415;mircea_popescu;or else i'd be rather pissed off today.
1427757;1457530539;mircea_popescu;punkman but it's the one with the "lands" to get mana to support troops is it ?
1427758;1457530724;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427755 << 'don't love anything - it could die' ?
1427759;1457530724;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 13:33:19; *: mircea_popescu is incredibly fucking glad he never gave in to the temptation as a child, and systematically never regarded go as anything above or beyond parlor trick to entertain oneself with teh nude houri postcoitally, in spite of perhaps reasonable and well reasoned arguments to the contrary.
1427760;1457530758;mircea_popescu;no, more like "love only things you're actually sure about"
1427761;1457530789;mircea_popescu;the problem with loving go, like "loving science", like generally all sorts of investments of the self children are forced into, is that they end up importing "the people".
1427762;1457530805;mircea_popescu;for instance - everyone now invested in go has had his life rearranged by lee sedol's rather erratic behaviour.
1427763;1457530841;mircea_popescu;this is a major problem, at least to my eyes. it was just as large, if not nearly as expressible, before the age of bitcoin. by which, to be perfectly specific, i do not mean satoshi crapolade. i mean bitcoinb as in tmsr, and wot and ba and such.
1427764;1457530851;asciilifeform;not so much. but will, when bot is portable and 'griefers' start connecting it to igs, the way chess asshats do
1427765;1457530864;mircea_popescu;which is what, in any proper sense of the term, "bitcoin" and "crypto" even mean. not fucking pgp as seen by the zimmerman that "oh i don't even have the key anymore"
1427766;1457530880;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9683 @ 0.0005245 = 5.0787 BTC [-] {2} 
1427767;1457530884;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform very much, for the obvious reason. we care about the heads of things, not the tail of things.
1427768;1457530941;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34017 @ 0.00052437 = 17.8375 BTC [-]
1427769;1457530964;shinohai;Signed into twitter and saw your epic tweet davout :D
1427770;1457530977;mircea_popescu;we're not fucktarded lunacharsky to imagine that "oh, will resist narkopomps in the field". fuck that stupid shit.
1427771;1457531033;asciilifeform;this possibly needs to be expanded ?
1427772;1457531040;mircea_popescu;which part ?
1427773;1457531065;asciilifeform;1) 'the major problem...' and 2) 'which is what... even mean'
1427774;1457531139;mircea_popescu;aite, let's.
1427775;1457531240;mircea_popescu;1 should be easy to expand upon. you are familiar with the issues of maintaining software in the beleaguered c world, from what i've seen in the logs. such as you know, no more static linking now. gotta support utf now. (most relevant here : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-02-2016#1418193 )
1427776;1457531240;assbot;Logged on 29-02-2016 16:46:29; mircea_popescu: this of course means you must support arabic ligature in your kkkapp made specifically to scrawl white supremacist nonsense on virtual toilets in gta4.
1427777;1457531250;mircea_popescu;this problem is not magically limited to software, but universal.
1427778;1457531278;mircea_popescu;people are stuck importing the bleating of moo moos all over the field and in all sorts of capacities, without any sort of modulation at their disposal, even.
1427779;1457531301;mircea_popescu;sure, so you keep the nubbins` out of your house. great. they're going to put some shit on the radio. popculture!!1
1427780;1457531320;mircea_popescu;oh, more radio stations ? great, now the cars are all designed by imbeciles for imbeciles. let's make more houses in autocad! this is how a city looks!
1427781;1457531321;mircea_popescu;whose city ?
1427782;1457531345;mircea_popescu;the list is more or less endless. the problem, more or less felt by everyone (ie, by all persons) and not expressed clearly and rigurously by anyone, because dunno how.
1427783;1457531376;asciilifeform;there are strictly two 'solutions' i know of, 1) get born as mircea_popescu and stay on dirigible as much as possible 2) go perelman and live in the forest with bears and lynx
1427784;1457531377;mircea_popescu;and more importantly, because once expressed the current situation becomes tolerable, or the statal / feminine definition of intelligence is "measure of capacity to adapt to environment [that we designed to suit ourselves]".
1427785;1457531392;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am not discussing solutions, and plox not to mix it in we'll never end.
1427786;1457531400;mircea_popescu;the statement was as to the problem and its expression.
1427787;1457531410;asciilifeform;but yes, generally correct statement.
1427788;1457531442;mircea_popescu;(en passant : solution 3 is readily apparent, and it begins with selectively beating your children - the runts to death ; and then continuing in this manner. and there's plenty more.)
1427789;1457531450;mircea_popescu;now, as to 2 :
1427790;1457531486;asciilifeform;3 is not a solution if you don't give a fuck about 'next generation' and would rather experience some sanity yourself, or die trying
1427791;1457531490;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23636 @ 0.0005286 = 12.494 BTC [+] {2} 
1427792;1457531509;mircea_popescu;"bitcoin" in the sense of a collection of (whitepaper by satoshi, 2-3 shitty mutually exclusive prototypes by satoshi, even shittier code in prb) is much like "russia" in the sense of "the kiev kingdom".
1427793;1457531551;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13021 @ 0.00052927 = 6.8916 BTC [+]
1427794;1457531561;mircea_popescu;bitcoin, in any proper sense, means the republic, and the wot, and the forum, and so on. and similarly "cryptography" means "a bunch of derps on usenet" much in the same way space flight means chimps with monkeys. yes, the inclination to see inanimate objects fly is the same in both animals.
1427795;1457531580;mircea_popescu;desires are no basis. "cryptography" does not stem from pgp-zimmerman, but from pgp-ba.
1427796;1457531604;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it is deeply satisfying to beat idiots to death. you should try it sometime.
1427797;1457531606;asciilifeform;in exactly same sense as 'gunpowder' means krupp and not chinese fireforks from 1500s
1427798;1457531612;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68000 @ 0.00053003 = 36.042 BTC [+] {2} 
1427799;1457531615;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform exactly so.
1427800;1457531617;mircea_popescu;satisfactory ?
1427801;1457531626;asciilifeform;sure.
1427802;1457531729;asciilifeform;i have nfi how to beat idiots though, only ever been beaten to death ~by~ idiots.
1427803;1457531780;*;asciilifeform bbl, inserting stake
1427804;1457531842;mircea_popescu;mircea_popescu> and more importantly, because once expressed the current situation becomes tolerable << INtolerable, obviously. and in all fields. much like a smoky kitchen wall is tolerable for just as long as you don't see any actual white stuff for contrast. but bring in a new stove, suddenly the wall needs a paintjob too.
1427805;1457531856;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.00052963 = 24.4689 BTC [-]
1427806;1457531856;mircea_popescu;whereas before it "didn't".
1427807;1457532152;mircea_popescu;space flight means chimps with monkeys << ie, chimps with rocks.
1427808;1457532188;mircea_popescu;bbl, redoing this wake-up thing, apparently it didn't happen fully.
1427809;1457533511;nubbins`;i like how mp pretends to be ignoring me, but still fumbles through an insult directed my way whenever i give another prod
1427810;1457533625;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93300 @ 0.00052605 = 49.0805 BTC [-] {6} 
1427811;1457534334;nubbins`;cool, he wrote a whole article about me on trilema!
1427812;1457534348;nubbins`;mircea_popescu this infatuation of yours is bordering on obsessive
1427813;1457534357;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00052387 = 9.7964 BTC [-] {2} 
1427814;1457534462;nubbins`;if you look at the graph on http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE you can actually see the precise moment where MP announced his imaginary mining cartel.
1427815;1457534465;assbot;S.MPOE last 18590@0.00052387 ... ( http://bit.ly/1USv0yT )
1427816;1457534490;nubbins`;investors apparently took the pronouncement as a sign of things... not being quite well.
1427817;1457535560;thestringpuller;yea. a lot of selling pressure recently. i think node blockchain survived I'll see when it tried to load the index tonight. definitely going to back this thing up daily...
1427818;1457535668;danielpbarron;uncertainty over bitcoin itself
1427819;1457536020;thestringpuller;danielpbarron: i expected your blog to be all txtfiles lol
1427820;1457536028;thestringpuller;you actually inspired the theme for my blog
1427821;1457536054;danielpbarron;i didn't really design that. was just the default theme for the latest wordpress
1427822;1457536084;thestringpuller;i was talking about your original website. the <pre> tags and ascii text and links
1427823;1457536089;thestringpuller;and the dpb ascii art
1427824;1457536092;danielpbarron;ah
1427825;1457536148;danielpbarron;i seriously considered the all txt files option, but figured it wouldn't work well with allowing comments
1427826;1457536193;danielpbarron;and now that i've got wordpress running, I kinda like how easy it is to draft stuff
1427827;1457536217;thestringpuller;you can probably make the theme look like files tho
1427828;1457536236;danielpbarron;yeah there's defo changes to be made
1427829;1457536526;mircea_popescu;hmm, anyone recall the place in the log of that discussion of the nth army going through the same field, and seeing the same bridgeheads and valleys and whatnot ?
1427830;1457536550;mircea_popescu;was re the resistance of the medium etc
1427831;1457536675;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11844 @ 0.00052548 = 6.2238 BTC [+] {2} 
1427832;1457537372;mircea_popescu;well this is sad, i can't fucking find it, half hour later.
1427833;1457537414;mircea_popescu;i suppose before i'm dead my life will consist of mostly wasting my time trying to find errant bits of log.
1427834;1457537834;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00052548 = 5.8591 BTC [+]
1427835;1457538383;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55000 @ 0.00052384 = 28.8112 BTC [-] {4} 
1427836;1457539298;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00052317 = 15.6951 BTC [-]
1427837;1457539725;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16144 @ 0.00052649 = 8.4997 BTC [+]
1427838;1457540202;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the sad part is not even the 'destruction of go' -- but the new lease on life for the vc circus
1427839;1457540251;asciilifeform;consider, the bot was not the product of the 'knowing wtf you're doing' school of ai (which is long dead)
1427840;1457540254;asciilifeform;but the other kind.
1427841;1457540260;thestringpuller;i have a feeling same was said when deep blue beat kasparov...
1427842;1457540266;asciilifeform;it was.
1427843;1457540274;asciilifeform;and was just as true
1427844;1457540309;thestringpuller;you could have sentient bot talk to you and you'd still slap it around I suppose
1427845;1457540362;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: there were once two schools of thought re: how to do 'ai'
1427846;1457540404;asciilifeform;one, typified by d. lenat's proggy 'eurisko' (see logs, i posted his s333kr1t paperz once) was of the sane sort
1427847;1457540431;asciilifeform;i.e. attempting to get to the bottom of what thought process ~is~, in a meaningful way
1427848;1457540441;asciilifeform;other - brute force, or sometimes 'meat emulation'
1427849;1457540483;asciilifeform;typified by 'connectionism' (nn) and 'machine learning' (elaborate application of statistical heuristics)
1427850;1457540495;asciilifeform;but neither admitting any element of euriskoism
1427851;1457540543;asciilifeform;so you get a box that sorta, most of the time, does X, but 1) sometimes fails spectacularly for no apparent reason, as if 'alive' and 2) teaches the builder ~absolutely nothing~ useful about X
1427852;1457540578;asciilifeform;e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-01-2016#1386298
1427853;1457540578;assbot;Logged on 26-01-2016 17:20:06; ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
1427854;1457540579;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00052952 = 18.9568 BTC [+] {3} 
1427855;1457540708;asciilifeform;i will call this - ersatz cognition
1427856;1457540730;thestringpuller;I really don't think you can actually decipher the nature of 'real thought' on current hardware. AI will always be an emulation of the authentic thing.
1427857;1457540732;asciilifeform;because, to heathens, it is often indistinguishable from the real thing, like the ersatz foods, plastic cars, and other detritus of modernity
1427858;1457540759;asciilifeform;i've been interested in ~actual~ machine cognition for pretty much my whole adult life
1427859;1457540759;thestringpuller;until you create some kinda hardware mechanism that is true to "real thing"
1427860;1457540809;asciilifeform;because, to heathens, it is often indistinguishable from  the real thing, like the ersatz foods, plastic cars, and  other detritus of modernity
1427861;1457540815;asciilifeform;i've been interested in ~actual~ machine cognition for  pretty much my whole adult life
1427862;1457540820;asciilifeform;but as far as i'm concerned, it began and ended with  eurisko.
1427863;1457540826;thestringpuller;the most interesting developments won't exist until neuro-interfaces exist.
1427864;1457540849;thestringpuller;because I doubt current humans can make computer better than brain.
1427865;1457540862;asciilifeform;is bulldozer better than man with shovel ?
1427866;1457540883;asciilifeform;damn what is happening to my terminal
1427867;1457540884;asciilifeform;brb
1427868;1457540888;thestringpuller;bulldozer still requires man.
1427869;1457540893;thestringpuller;shovel requires man.
1427870;1457540904;asciilifeform;l0l looks like i transmitted everything twice
1427871;1457540910;asciilifeform;apologies for the l0g n0i53.
1427872;1457540919;nubbins`;reminiscent of the bank of FPGAs learning to distinguish audio tones
1427873;1457540924;asciilifeform;nubbins`: aha
1427874;1457540933;asciilifeform;which quit working when moved to another room.
1427875;1457540939;nubbins`;leading to gibberish circuits, relying on physical imperfections in resonance of container, etc
1427876;1457540944;nubbins`;yes
1427877;1457540955;nubbins`;this is a terrifyingly accurate representation of meat-based life, i fear
1427878;1457540966;nubbins`;consciousness as well
1427879;1457541004;nubbins`;e.g. take twin brains, copy "save-state" from one to other; madness, frothing mouth.
1427880;1457541078;trinque;I have a friend in prosthetics who once explained at length to me that the brain doesn't begin knowing how to see, smell, etc
1427881;1457541084;trinque;it learns how to over time
1427882;1457541101;trinque;this leads to being able to wire visual inputs into the tongue, and having the brain eventually learn to make a picture from this
1427883;1457541125;asciilifeform;trinque: do you recall the article where some fella implanted a small magnet into his finger ?
1427884;1457541131;trinque;I do, yep
1427885;1457541172;trinque;the above doesn't seem to bode well for having a model of cognition any time soon
1427886;1457541179;trinque;as it might be drastically different from noggin to noggin
1427887;1457541260;trinque;it also seems to suggest that mind-amplification is a much nearer goal than AI, as the brain's own ability to handle new inputs can be leaned upon
1427888;1457541293;asciilifeform;(for those who do not - eventually it became 'a sense',  and when the thing fell out he was quite distressed and  felt blinded)
1427889;1457541303;asciilifeform;trinque: exactly not, though
1427890;1457541323;asciilifeform;because all of the idiot grind ai teaches us NOTHING about thought.
1427891;1457541419;trinque;this is what I'm aiming to say, that my friend has said he knows very little about *how* the brain forms a picture, only that it will (waves hands) learn to when given input representing one
1427892;1457541433;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00052975 = 11.0453 BTC [+] {4} 
1427893;1457541513;asciilifeform;this puts us at approx. ancient greek state of the art.
1427894;1457541527;asciilifeform;'what, pray tell, was the in-between for ?' (tm) (r)
1427895;1457541568;asciilifeform;see also old thread on otp, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2016#1394784
1427896;1457541568;assbot;Logged on 03-02-2016 01:31:16; mircea_popescu: "if thge best you can come up with is otp - give me back the cpu and take this mechanical gearbox instead"
1427897;1457542389;mircea_popescu;!up farfi
1427898;1457542429;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> but the other kind. << im actually writing about this.
1427899;1457542435;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: neato.
1427900;1457542446;mircea_popescu;do you happen to remember the piece i'm looking for ?
1427901;1457542449;asciilifeform;which
1427902;1457542464;mircea_popescu;the one with the army which, going through a field, encounters the same problems all the previous ones did.
1427903;1457542469;mircea_popescu;and so a community of sorts emerges.
1427904;1457542543;mircea_popescu;trinque> it also seems to suggest that mind-amplification << mind amplification is really an everyday thing. that's what b-a does, and before b-a that's what the internet tried, and before that books, and so on.
1427905;1457542555;mircea_popescu;fucking dogs do it, some of them at least, as per that experiment discussed in the logs.
1427906;1457542723;asciilifeform;aha!
1427907;1457542738;asciilifeform;!s from:mircea_popescu dog truffle
1427908;1457542739;assbot;0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu dog truffle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+dog+truffle
1427909;1457542745;asciilifeform;!s from:mircea_popescu point truffle
1427910;1457542746;assbot;0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu point truffle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+point+truffle
1427911;1457542748;asciilifeform;hm
1427912;1457542751;mircea_popescu;;/
1427913;1457542848;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo this prolly shoujld be qntra << If someone know something at all about Go, I know jack shit.
1427914;1457542865;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it sorta ended a larger piece, ima trilema.
1427915;1457542878;asciilifeform;hm was assbot dead that day
1427916;1457542927;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> looks like he's throwing the match ? << Possibru? COunting on people not knowing Go?
1427917;1457542963;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually it was in a pm convo
1427918;1457542970;mircea_popescu;the dog ?
1427919;1457542971;asciilifeform;yes.
1427920;1457542975;mircea_popescu;o.O
1427921;1457542979;asciilifeform;i can post the fragment if you like.
1427922;1457542987;mircea_popescu;how about the other one! that's what i really am after.
1427923;1457542991;mircea_popescu;and sure, why not.
1427924;1457543123;asciilifeform;and hm, i think it actually got trilemaized
1427925;1457543141;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2014/the-gui-the-twerk-and-the-most-valuable-resource
1427926;1457543142;assbot;The GUI, the twerk and the most valuable resource on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QDMaNV )
1427927;1457543144;asciilifeform;there it is.
1427928;1457543166;mircea_popescu;o.O
1427929;1457543191;mircea_popescu;so it... wasn't pm ? :D
1427930;1457543200;asciilifeform;was.
1427931;1457543202;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12508 @ 0.00052649 = 6.5853 BTC [-] {2} 
1427932;1457543210;asciilifeform;originally
1427933;1457543211;mircea_popescu;check out alfie leaking privkey bits.
1427934;1457543215;asciilifeform;l0l
1427935;1457543220;mircea_popescu;mwhahaha
1427936;1457543245;asciilifeform;hey the p in pm is fictional
1427937;1457543247;asciilifeform;what key.
1427938;1457543250;mircea_popescu;aok
1427939;1457543264;BingoBoingo;<danielpbarron> i didn't really design that. was just the default theme for the latest wordpress << Fing and play with toolbox, and by play with I mean delete shit and make it more minimalist. Do leave the screenreader stuff in and if possibru improve it.
1427940;1457543324;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00052649 = 5.1596 BTC [-]
1427941;1457543451;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it sorta ended a larger piece, ima trilema. << cool
1427942;1457543629;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00053024 = 6.9992 BTC [+] {2} 
1427943;1457543890;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412496 << might be the thread you wanted ?
1427944;1457543890;assbot;Logged on 21-02-2016 21:20:12; mircea_popescu: phf my mental model is essentially "awk without regexp"
1427945;1457543943;*;mircea_popescu looks
1427946;1457543971;mircea_popescu;nah. much older, was in a tail end of a discussion of art iirc
1427947;1457543977;mircea_popescu;literature, soemthing.
1427948;1457544910;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00052885 = 2.5385 BTC [-]
1427949;1457545359;deedbot-;[Trilema] Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! - http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
1427950;1457545398;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3318 @ 0.00052776 = 1.7511 BTC [-] {2} 
1427951;1457545826;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> but the other kind. << there's a deep reason the bayesian religion is widely appealing.
1427952;1457545919;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the root of the matter is an elementary thing. google et al are deeply disinterested in cognition etc. but are paid for specific thing - solving the problem of usg needing an automated gestapo.
1427953;1457545930;asciilifeform;for this, the 'artificial A-student' suffices.
1427954;1457545935;asciilifeform;and is in fact just what the doctor ordered.
1427955;1457545937;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> i will call this - ersatz cognition << the problem being that, much like in the case of blub, ersatz cognition can only be recognized by people not blessed with it.
1427956;1457545957;mircea_popescu;actually, my favourite quote for that,
1427957;1457546003;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2011/caviarul-si-fata/#selection-21.0-29.341
1427958;1457546005;assbot;Caviarul si fata on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TLJTnM )
1427959;1457546007;mircea_popescu;in translation :
1427960;1457546037;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: perhaps different outlook, knowing you can't emulate human mind on current machines. perhaps the only way to "true AI" is some cyborg thing of a brain plugged up to machinery...
1427961;1457546038;mircea_popescu;a young consumation girl [ie, whore], otherwise clever and vivacious, receiving some caviar aside the mug of vodka, proceeded to explain some matters t ome.
1427962;1457546099;mircea_popescu;specifically, that these black roe, large and soft as were put before her, are evidently inferior to true black roe, as she always gets at [we're skipping this, lest we shame the third party]. which are small, much, much smaller, needle sized, and tough, so you can crack them in your teeth.
1427963;1457546143;mircea_popescu;working by analogy with the fruits in the marketr stall, or perhaps even herself and her sisters, her ladyship figured such : what is good is tough and rocky, what's overripe, soft, unrestrained in the belts of rubbery skin is obviously iunferior.
1427964;1457546175;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: pointedly an example of the ~current~ crud
1427965;1457546176;mircea_popescu;let the beluga take its unfortunate form emergently to mr doctor X, so as to receive bookend implants.
1427966;1457546212;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: the current crud exists just as alchemy once existed, you expect alchemist to understand modern chemistry?
1427967;1457546222;mircea_popescu;anyway - i welcome the antivirus-based new gestapo. it will doubtlessly work as well as the new us model army, seen at the muchly trumpeted, quickly forgotten tikrit offensive.
1427968;1457546241;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller who in your view made the switch between the two ?
1427969;1457546252;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00052776 = 1.8999 BTC [-]
1427970;1457546265;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: i would defer that question to PeterL
1427971;1457546277;thestringpuller;since not being a chemist that is a blurry line
1427972;1457546320;mircea_popescu;traditionally, lavoisier, i suppose. but mind that many people understood what you call chemistry long before the 1600s, and similarly an interest in alchemy survived long after.
1427973;1457546375;asciilifeform;as recently as edison.
1427974;1457546384;mircea_popescu;hey, i still read it.
1427975;1457546432;asciilifeform;i meant, live interest, vs archaeological.
1427976;1457546446;mircea_popescu;i thought it revolved around understanding.
1427977;1457546446;asciilifeform;or does mircea_popescu read it to learn how to actually produce philosopher's stone.
1427978;1457546456;mircea_popescu;no, but i daresay i understand at least parts of it.
1427979;1457546487;asciilifeform;it certainly added up to a coherent whole, at least once you cut away the obscurantist armour.
1427980;1457546510;thestringpuller;well i was more under the assumption philosopher stone of AI (a sorta Star Trek TNG "Data") doesn't currently have a means of existing
1427981;1457546576;mircea_popescu;speaking of ancient arcana - who even noticed that the soviet ideas of central planning are a direct calc copy off the way turkish empire ran ?
1427982;1457546590;mircea_popescu;dandians, duzians, twas a thing.
1427983;1457546630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not really, no. turks, at least at their height, quite solidly had 'fuhrerprinzip' - all officials, incl. vizir, personal slaves of sultan.
1427984;1457546649;mircea_popescu;as theory. this theory had lain fallow since suleyman.
1427985;1457546656;mircea_popescu;and for that matter - all soviets, personal slaves of stalin.
1427986;1457546725;asciilifeform;as far as i can tell, turks carried on a healthy, 'asiatic' sort of unbureaucratized barbarism for quite some time - witness how well they got on, for how long, without banks, for instance
1427987;1457546726;mircea_popescu;and since i mentioned the armenian genocide - the experience of erryday life among this lower class in the very wot-driven turkish empire quite exactly maps what i expect to be the lot of the keyless in the not-so-distant future.
1427988;1457546748;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform twas deeply bureaucratic. the ENGLISH thought them overbureaucratized.
1427989;1457546770;asciilifeform;this in 19th c. no?
1427990;1457546778;asciilifeform;after they hastily copied euros
1427991;1457546793;asciilifeform;(venetian bank, french army, etc)
1427992;1457546797;mircea_popescu;not so hastily, no. they only started copying under the last sultan, after russian defeat.
1427993;1457546811;mircea_popescu;but yes, 18.5-19
1427994;1457546865;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, i read http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427949 and wondering about footnote x. despite standing to lose some coin, i do not see how the bet ought to be seen as a sham
1427995;1457546865;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 17:42:39; deedbot-: [Trilema] Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! - http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
1427996;1457546872;asciilifeform;we knew this is how the machine plays, much earlier
1427997;1457546892;mircea_popescu;so we did.
1427998;1457546894;asciilifeform;in fact, every go robot made to date, at least among the more successful ones, plays like this.
1427999;1457546902;asciilifeform;starting from late '80s
1428000;1457546909;mircea_popescu;we didn't know that "surrender" would be an acceptable end.
1428001;1457546921;asciilifeform;actually most pro games end in surrender
1428002;1457546947;asciilifeform;almost all do.
1428003;1457546950;mircea_popescu;how does it work, hassabis goes "hey, quit already, we're running out of tape" ?
1428004;1457546955;mircea_popescu;not with a machine.
1428005;1457546960;asciilifeform;srsly examine any db of pro games
1428006;1457546969;mircea_popescu;NONO. sudden failure for no reason.
1428007;1457546978;mircea_popescu;you want to maximize its exposure. no conceivable reason to ever quit.
1428008;1457546978;asciilifeform;i did not say, ~this~ kind of surrender
1428009;1457546983;mircea_popescu;well then.
1428010;1457546989;*;asciilifeform sees where mircea_popescu is going.
1428011;1457547003;asciilifeform;because i've already been there, when woke up today and saw the game.
1428012;1457547009;mircea_popescu;the argument is there. not particularly strong. also note that the bar for bitbet arguments is crazy low. we've seen absurdities argued the likes of which would scare a highschool teacher.
1428013;1457547020;mircea_popescu;but none of this changes that... the argument IS there.
1428014;1457547027;asciilifeform;sure.
1428015;1457547054;asciilifeform;also if lee sedol is not thinking about the 'maximize exposure' thing right now, he'd have to be a fool
1428016;1457547057;asciilifeform;(or bought)
1428017;1457547073;mircea_popescu;fact is, fraud is traditionally inseparable from this sort of central event
1428018;1457547074;asciilifeform;but the 'end by resign' thing is taught to the pros in childhood, flashed into their bios, so to speak
1428019;1457547076;mircea_popescu;think fixed world series.
1428020;1457547079;asciilifeform;aha.
1428021;1457547103;mircea_popescu;what else is "flashed in bios" ? don't whip the wife ? bow before government ?
1428022;1457547151;asciilifeform;only pointing out that the man obviously failed to depart from his 'firmware'
1428023;1457547158;asciilifeform;though it was abundantly appropriate
1428024;1457547222;asciilifeform;somewhat relatedly, my understanding of the history of go, is that match fraud was historically a rarity
1428025;1457547232;mircea_popescu;yes, and peasants playing also never heard of.
1428026;1457547234;asciilifeform;because, partly, the game attracted the very highest caliber of human.
1428027;1457547255;asciilifeform;but also that a thrown match was almost impossible to conceal from expert eye
1428028;1457547272;asciilifeform;to convincingly throw, would take at least the same skill as to win.
1428029;1457547289;asciilifeform;and the incentives were such that the players would rather win.
1428030;1457547306;mircea_popescu;it is/was a wot game.
1428031;1457547309;asciilifeform;aha!
1428032;1457547317;asciilifeform;that it was.
1428033;1457547320;mircea_popescu;hence, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-03-2016#1427759
1428034;1457547320;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 13:38:44; assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 13:33:19; *: mircea_popescu is incredibly fucking glad he never gave in to the temptation as a child, and systematically never regarded go as anything above or beyond parlor trick to entertain oneself with teh nude houri postcoitally, in spite of perhaps reasonable and well reasoned arguments to the contrary.
1428035;1457547411;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7682 @ 0.00052776 = 4.0543 BTC [-]
1428036;1457547444;asciilifeform;by the same token mircea_popescu can be glad that he never got seriously into, e.g., programming
1428037;1457547447;asciilifeform;but at some point one has to do ~something~
1428038;1457547451;mircea_popescu;i am.
1428039;1457547477;mircea_popescu;hey, i'm admitting it as a sin, not proposing it as a moral.
1428040;1457547481;asciilifeform;aha
1428041;1457547530;asciilifeform;go was the last 'noble game'
1428042;1457547543;asciilifeform;which is why it was such an irresistible target for the mediocrity bulldozer.
1428043;1457547577;mircea_popescu;imo - go-open-to-public was an unwelcome bastion of "impaciuitorism" in the way of the republic.
1428044;1457547592;asciilifeform;impaciuitorism ?
1428045;1457547594;mircea_popescu;no, we can't have peace with the bourgeois still around. burn them.
1428046;1457547595;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00052776 = 1.3986 BTC [-]
1428047;1457547607;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform romanian version of the russian word for "dealing with the capitalists"
1428048;1457547613;asciilifeform;notice, it had to die ~in this specific way~, that is, by ~unthinking ai~
1428049;1457547618;asciilifeform;as per earlier thread.
1428050;1457547623;asciilifeform;likewise chess
1428051;1457547623;mircea_popescu;aha.
1428052;1457547652;asciilifeform;no industrial giant remotely contemplated funding the other kind of chess (and there ~was~ work, as recently as early '80s)
1428053;1457547683;asciilifeform;elsewhere this process is known as 'deskilling'
1428054;1457547688;asciilifeform;and is discussed in some depth on my www.
1428055;1457547706;mircea_popescu;the important point being, that there must be no room, no place and no hope for intelligent men in the society of subhumans.
1428056;1457547712;mircea_popescu;the sooner they get the memo, the better.
1428057;1457547872;asciilifeform;i got the memo when i was 5 y.o.
1428058;1457547875;asciilifeform;fat lotta good it did.
1428059;1457547926;mircea_popescu;that's step 2.
1428060;1457547928;mircea_popescu;anyway, bbl.
1428061;1457548314;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427870 << i just woke from a nap when reading this, and convinced myself that ~I~ had accidentally skipped up a couple lines and read it again
1428062;1457548314;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 16:28:24; asciilifeform: l0l looks like i transmitted everything twice
1428063;1457548334;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> actually most pro games end in surrender << Seems to be one of the few similarities with ches
1428064;1457548571;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00052885 = 1.9567 BTC [+]
1428065;1457548693;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00053008 = 5.8839 BTC [+] {2} 
1428066;1457548817;thestringpuller;but then again if aliens come down and deliver us philosopher stone that t
1428067;1457548827;thestringpuller;oops
1428068;1457549609;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00052776 = 3.4304 BTC [-]
1428069;1457549731;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00053026 = 14.5822 BTC [+] {2} 
1428070;1457550828;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00053039 = 3.0232 BTC [+] {2} 
1428071;1457550970;asciilifeform;http://www.anandpraka.sh/2016/03/how-i-could-have-hacked-your-facebook.html << lulz
1428072;1457550971;assbot;Anand Prakash : [Responsible disclosure] How I could have hacked all Facebook accounts ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRwXJU )
1428073;1457551051;asciilifeform;^ to continue the 'no place to sell 0days' thread
1428074;1457551389;*;adlai actually wanted to continue the 'philosopher stone' thread!
1428075;1457551533;*;adlai wonders whether the low price tag of responsible disclosure stems from the glass cannon nature of indiscretionary usage
1428076;1457551982;shinohai;http://www.iflscience.org/missing-scientist-found-hiding-in-secret-lsd-drug-lab/
1428077;1457551983;assbot;Missing Scientist Found Hiding in Drug Lab | IFLScience.org ... ( http://bit.ly/223nOCi )
1428078;1457552231;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428075 << it stems from no-alternative.
1428079;1457552231;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 19:25:33; *: adlai wonders whether the low price tag of responsible disclosure stems from the glass cannon nature of indiscretionary usage
1428080;1457552464;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428076 << cheap hoax
1428081;1457552464;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 19:33:02; shinohai: http://www.iflscience.org/missing-scientist-found-hiding-in-secret-lsd-drug-lab/
1428082;1457553207;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052624 = 1.9997 BTC [-] {4} 
1428083;1457553269;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052544 = 2.6797 BTC [-]
1428084;1457553401;asciilifeform;https://malicioussha1.github.io
1428085;1457553401;assbot;Malicious SHA-1 ... ( http://bit.ly/223sKab )
1428086;1457553407;asciilifeform;^ lulzy oldie
1428087;1457553420;asciilifeform;'Did NSA use this trick when creating SHA-1 in 1995? We believe this is unlikely, for
1428088;1457553430;asciilifeform;... The original SHA-1 constants are “nothing-up-my-sleeve-numbers“, derived from the binary representation of the square roots of 2, 3, 5 and 10 ...
1428089;1457553446;asciilifeform;Just before SHA-1, NSA designed SHA-0, for which weaknesses were quickly identified by the research community  ... ... [claptrap snipped]'
1428090;1457553460;asciilifeform;!s so room would be empty
1428091;1457553461;assbot;1 results for 'so room would be empty' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=so+room+would+be+empty
1428092;1457553518;asciilifeform;(summary: article elementarily demonstrates that a hash of the sha1 type could be designed with trapdoor. and then argues nonsensically that we 'know' there could have been none such.)
1428093;1457553756;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6028 @ 0.00052784 = 3.1818 BTC [+] {4} 
1428094;1457555159;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00052929 = 5.0018 BTC [+] {3} 
1428095;1457555342;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00052317 = 6.5396 BTC [-] {2} 
1428096;1457555647;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00052317 = 4.9963 BTC [-] {2} 
1428097;1457556472;thestringpuller;#occupybitcoin
1428098;1457556851;asciilifeform;!s http://nsa.unaligned.org
1428099;1457556852;assbot;NSA :: Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1W9KpJH )
1428100;1457556852;assbot;0 results for 'http://nsa.unaligned.org' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fnsa.unaligned.org
1428101;1457556857;asciilifeform;^ spiffy.
1428102;1457556878;asciilifeform;'NSA@home is a fast FPGA-based SHA-1 and MD5 bruteforce cracker. It is capable of searching the full 8-character keyspace (from a 64-character set) in about a day in the current configuration for 800 hashes concurrently, using about 240W of power. This performance is equivalent to over 1500 Athlon FX-60 CPUs, which would take about 250kW.'
1428103;1457556884;asciilifeform;'The cracker is built out of surplus Grass Valley HD video transform boards, scrapped by GV because of defects. A useful tool was developed to assist the board reverse-engineering effort.'
1428104;1457557050;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00052317 = 7.7429 BTC [-]
1428105;1457557227;thestringpuller;sounds a lot like proto-mining 2013
1428106;1457557241;thestringpuller;i guess that's all a miner is really...
1428107;1457557355;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00052317 = 6.4088 BTC [-]
1428108;1457557782;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36500 @ 0.00052295 = 19.0877 BTC [-] {4} 
1428109;1457558239;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428097 << waiwut?!
1428110;1457558239;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 20:47:52; thestringpuller: #occupybitcoin
1428111;1457558299;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428097  << waiwut?!
1428112;1457558299;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 20:47:52; thestringpuller: #occupybitcoin
1428113;1457558342;asciilifeform;ok now i really gotta check my terminal
1428114;1457558880;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5651 @ 0.00052284 = 2.9546 BTC [-] {2} 
1428115;1457558895;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: a lot of the snoooooore-fest article coming from likes of armstrong and company, sound like stuff people would rant at occupy wallstreet
1428116;1457558918;thestringpuller;saw how much good that did
1428117;1457559219;danielpbarron;to whomever was running a brute force on my wordpress login, yeah I noticed. time to find a new IP
1428118;1457559422;thestringpuller;you don't put wp-admin behind firewall?
1428119;1457559439;thestringpuller;really should put wp-admin behind firewall
1428120;1457559472;asciilifeform;who's armstrong?
1428121;1457559574;thestringpuller;danielpbarron: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/nginx-block-url-access-all-except-one-ip-address/ << for nginx; http://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/website/wordpress/lock-down-wordpress-admin-login-with-htaccess << for apache with .htaccess
1428122;1457559578;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: brian armstrong
1428123;1457559659;asciilifeform;!s armstrong
1428124;1457559659;assbot;18 results for 'armstrong' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=armstrong
1428125;1457559680;asciilifeform;snore.
1428126;1457559857;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8249 @ 0.00052284 = 4.3129 BTC [-]
1428127;1457560001;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116750 << people come to trilema, seo their link. trilema gives them a gift in exchange.
1428128;1457560002;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UTpmg4 )
1428129;1457560266;mircea_popescu;18* adlai wonders whether the low price tag of responsible disclosure stems from the glass cannon nature << doesn't seem glass cannon-y at all, with any patience you could have hijacked some "notable"  accounts made them do some funky shit.
1428130;1457560290;mircea_popescu;no, guy is just some derp trying to find a place in usg, as opposed to b-a or isis or whatever. that's all.
1428131;1457560302;mircea_popescu;if he was from 4chan, they'd be all voting for m00t.
1428132;1457560412;mircea_popescu;"The Police recovered over $500,000 worth of lab equipment stolen from the University, along with 3 hand guns, an assault rifle, 50 years� worth of military grade rations and twelve 55 gallon barrels (including three almost empty barrels) of what DEA labs have identified as pure liquid Lysergic acid diethylamide, a powerful hallucinogenic drug more commonly known as the street name LSD or Acid."
1428133;1457560414;mircea_popescu;is this a hoax ?!
1428134;1457560449;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428130 << which
1428135;1457560449;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 21:51:30; mircea_popescu: no, guy is just some derp trying to find a place in usg, as opposed to b-a or isis or whatever. that's all.
1428136;1457560471;mircea_popescu;"It is not yet known if or when Dr. Winston will be convicted of any crime." indicted, convicted, WHAT THE HELL'S THE DIFFERENCE
1428137;1457560480;deedbot-;[Qntra] "Bitcoin Group" Fiat Mining IPO Withdrawn - http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitcoin-group-fiat-mining-ipo-withdrawn/
1428138;1457560487;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform quote re scientist with the army rations and lsd barrels.
1428139;1457560505;mircea_popescu;srsly, 3 TONS of the stuff ?
1428140;1457560577;mircea_popescu;http://www.iflscience.org/solar-panels-largely-responsible-for-el-nino-says-science/ << same rag.
1428141;1457560578;assbot;Solar Panels Largely Responsible for El Nino Says Science | IFLScience ... ( http://bit.ly/1W9WQVU )
1428142;1457560585;mircea_popescu;nice tho, had me wtf'd for a little.
1428143;1457560604;asciilifeform;consider volume occupied by '50 yrs of rations'
1428144;1457560608;asciilifeform;srsly
1428145;1457560727;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron> to whomever was running a brute force on my wordpress login << there's thousands of boxes working this 24/7. "seo industry".
1428146;1457560765;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform basement could be arbitrarily large because of the nuclear shelter fashion.
1428147;1457560765;asciilifeform;or how many hectares of wheat need to be ergoted to make  so much as ONE 'drum of pure lsd'
1428148;1457560772;mircea_popescu;now, THAT.
1428149;1457560783;mircea_popescu;besides, what the fuck he drank three ?
1428150;1457560806;mircea_popescu;it's not fucking aspirin.
1428151;1457560841;asciilifeform;milligram is 'elephant's dose.'
1428152;1457560849;asciilifeform;whole thing is idiotic.
1428153;1457560870;mircea_popescu;but in other "military relations in basements" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7frgkSwrS1rycxrdo1_1280.jpg
1428154;1457560872;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UTrGUk )
1428155;1457561096;asciilifeform;it is likely that no more than a dozen litres of lsd  ever EXISTED on planet3.
1428156;1457561097;mats;a pound of the stuff in a local water source sounds like an interesting experiment
1428157;1457561137;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00052284 = 3.7644 BTC [-]
1428158;1457561158;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform is correct, lsd is psychoactive in micrgram dosage. which means that yes, go to coca-cola plant, come out a liter of lsd lighter, enjoy fireworks in a billion people.
1428159;1457561162;BingoBoingo;mats: But would it survive that kind of dilution in water?
1428160;1457561212;asciilifeform;mats: degrades QUICKLY in water.
1428161;1457561222;mats;more so than in sunlight?
1428162;1457561235;mircea_popescu;didn't they drink it in cool-aid w/e ?
1428163;1457561262;*;mircea_popescu eschewed water plant because chlorine.
1428164;1457561318;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: bottle at room temp for few hrs != city water tower (which has cl, etc)
1428165;1457561320;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10488 @ 0.00052484 = 5.5045 BTC [+] {2} 
1428166;1457561334;mircea_popescu;aha!
1428167;1457561358;BingoBoingo;In sad news http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20160309192510
1428168;1457561359;assbot;The VAX platform is no more ... ( http://bit.ly/1W9Z6MX )
1428169;1457561461;thestringpuller;BingoBoingo: they have these bar stools at work for the high tables. the obese people will sit on them and so the pneumatic pump goes out. so now when a normal person sits on it, it slowly sinks down. everytime it happens I'm like "yup an obese person sat on this"
1428170;1457561479;BingoBoingo;lol
1428171;1457561490;BingoBoingo;Can't have nice things
1428172;1457561546;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: see also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-11-2015#1314087
1428173;1457561546;assbot;Logged on 02-11-2015 18:53:02; ascii_field: http://i.imgur.com/zTyfHGs.jpg
1428174;1457561740;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lsd is ~very~ unstable unless dry crystal kept in the dark. hence why it did not work out as chemical weapon.
1428175;1457561765;mircea_popescu;yeah yeah ok.
1428176;1457561777;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427880 << ftr, this restatement of the plasticity propriety oif the cnc is mostly made of your tradesman's self-flattery (all civilisation is predicated on tramway, sez conductor. neh, on beer, sez publican).
1428177;1457561777;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 16:31:18; trinque: I have a friend in prosthetics who once explained at length to me that the brain doesn't begin knowing how to see, smell, etc
1428178;1457561833;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427882 << hey, and the brain learns to make a food out of hamburgers eventually.
1428179;1457561833;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 16:31:41; trinque: this leads to being able to wire visual inputs into the tongue, and having the brain eventually learn to make a picture from this
1428180;1457561871;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427894 << fucking an' partying.
1428181;1457561871;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 16:38:47; asciilifeform: 'what, pray tell, was the in-between for ?' (tm) (r)
1428182;1457562240;asciilifeform;but the 'brain learns' thing is pure nonexplanatory  obscuratronium.
1428183;1457562280;mircea_popescu;void learns(things);
1428184;1457562286;asciilifeform;aha.
1428185;1457562303;asciilifeform;!s natural stupidity
1428186;1457562304;assbot;1 results for 'natural stupidity' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=natural+stupidity
1428187;1457562437;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's very little to be explained, so far. "the brain consists of a varying set of individual cells, in the billions, which have a number of internal states that have not yet been enumerated either in the collective or reliably individual cases, which connect to other cells through a process they apparently to some degree control but is not otherwise understood, forming patters that are not meaningfully
1428188;1457562438;mircea_popescu; described to any degree and moving electric impulses back and forth".
1428189;1457562448;mircea_popescu;what 'explain' ? there aren't the terms in which the explanation would be made.
1428190;1457562468;asciilifeform;consider airplane
1428191;1457562537;asciilifeform;nobody's built a mechanical bird (ornithopter) worth half a shit yet.
1428192;1457562540;mircea_popescu;the general complexity of the cell is perhaps the chief lie of popular conception of biology. "oh yeah, nucleus, cytoplasm, yeah i recall". you recall my left foot. golgi apparatus. a whole set of vacuoles. the nucleus has a membrane in layers. there's dozens of different items in there we don't even fully enumerate - and your understanding isn't good enough to stand for the mithocondria, which, incidentally, also has
1428193;1457562540;mircea_popescu;a nucleus.
1428194;1457562563;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform was not a question of building anything, but of understanding, neh ?
1428195;1457562569;asciilifeform;(none, e.g., can find air currents & glide)
1428196;1457562574;asciilifeform;aha
1428197;1457562587;asciilifeform;but do we understand flight?
1428198;1457562780;mircea_popescu;i would say so, yes.
1428199;1457562804;asciilifeform;i would say that we ~understand~ a thing if we can fully separate the ~accidental~ complexity of it from the ~essential~.
1428200;1457562822;asciilifeform;the feathers, if you will, from the boeing.
1428201;1457562845;asciilifeform;computer, as i like to point out, very much is a boeing with feathers.
1428202;1457562848;mircea_popescu;so you're hanging your argument on turbulent flow ?
1428203;1457562856;mircea_popescu;fine, have it. we still understand flight to a larger degree than cognition.
1428204;1457562876;mircea_popescu;i can formulate the flight equivalent of iq ; you can not formulate the cognitive equivalent of energy.
1428205;1457562885;asciilifeform;that was actually my point
1428206;1457562886;asciilifeform;we do.
1428207;1457562897;asciilifeform;and in the latter case - don't
1428208;1457562915;mircea_popescu;heck, the iq nonsense EVEN EXISTS because people get antsy and prefer to pretend.
1428209;1457562920;mircea_popescu;entirely meaningless otherwise.
1428210;1457562930;trinque;+asciilifeform | but the 'brain learns' thing is pure nonexplanatory  obscuratronium. << what, you thought I was satisfied with "learns" as a complete description?
1428211;1457562936;trinque;point was the exact opposite
1428212;1457562955;mircea_popescu;trinque you familiar with the pigeon rewiring experiments ?
1428213;1457562959;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'iq' WORKS for identifying stupidity
1428214;1457562963;asciilifeform;which is what it was built for.
1428215;1457562964;mircea_popescu;skinner showed most subhumans not so different from pigeons.
1428216;1457562977;asciilifeform;aha
1428217;1457562979;trinque;we've been and will be bolting things to ourselves for far longer than understanding how we're capable of using them
1428218;1457562983;trinque;mircea_popescu: I'm not
1428219;1457562995;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not even that reliably. savant still stupid. it DID work to destroy any usable (by us) notion of stupidity, as far as the harpy wailchorus is concerned.
1428220;1457562999;mircea_popescu;that's not working.
1428221;1457563014;asciilifeform;calendar-savant IS stupid.
1428222;1457563021;mircea_popescu;high iq.
1428223;1457563024;asciilifeform;like trained dog.
1428224;1457563027;asciilifeform;nope.
1428225;1457563034;mircea_popescu;it happens, what.
1428226;1457563056;asciilifeform;it isn't a breakage. iq does not test the 'rng' (eysenck's 'psychoticism')
1428227;1457563068;asciilifeform;!s eysenck
1428228;1457563069;assbot;10 results for 'eysenck' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eysenck
1428229;1457563118;asciilifeform;i once spent several months trying to devise a machine-generatable test that ~could~.
1428230;1457563162;asciilifeform;got absolutely nowhere.
1428231;1457563174;asciilifeform;incidentally, do you have any idea how idiotically SECRETIVE the community is ?
1428232;1457563180;asciilifeform;(of test-makers)
1428233;1457563190;asciilifeform;it is in some respects easier to find nsa material
1428234;1457563214;asciilifeform;than, e.g., 'raven's progressive matrices'
1428235;1457563244;asciilifeform;~because~ : computer - NEVER HAPPEND there.
1428236;1457563257;mircea_popescu;yeah. pseudoscience does that.
1428237;1457563305;mircea_popescu;anyway, while we differ on what we color iq-ism in, or what you eventually expect it to do, i don't think there's actual disagreement as to what it does.
1428238;1457563312;asciilifeform;most lysenkos spam aggressively tho
1428239;1457563314;asciilifeform;not these.
1428240;1457563329;mircea_popescu;yeah, there's that.
1428241;1457563366;asciilifeform;thing is, they actually do a job.
1428242;1457563393;mircea_popescu;useful in the 60s or w/e, "find the gomer pyles before gunnery sgt gets shot".
1428243;1457563403;asciilifeform;a difficult, thankless job, that is becoming usg-illegal, for decades , slowly
1428244;1457563411;asciilifeform;aha.
1428245;1457563436;mircea_popescu;thing is, social media does a better job of this.
1428246;1457563437;asciilifeform;but also 'find the children worth rescuing from the shitpits'
1428247;1457563441;mircea_popescu;never.
1428248;1457563449;mircea_popescu;no child was ever rescued.
1428249;1457563477;mircea_popescu;"find the children that, on their own strength, may see through the idiocy and give them really heavy stones to lift so they don't".
1428250;1457563485;asciilifeform;yeah yeah nietzsche whatever
1428251;1457563492;mircea_popescu;it only ever worked like that "fairness" thing, what was the short story ?
1428252;1457563513;asciilifeform;!s harrison bergeron
1428253;1457563514;assbot;4 results for 'harrison bergeron' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=harrison+bergeron
1428254;1457563518;mircea_popescu;there you go.
1428255;1457563543;mircea_popescu;ALSO for the job of rescuing children, "social media", or rather, the social media facade of b-a works better than iq.
1428256;1457563544;asciilifeform;now this, yes!
1428257;1457563610;asciilifeform;but this latter thing exists in the way nuke power existed in '44.
1428258;1457563619;mircea_popescu;so far.
1428259;1457563624;asciilifeform;yes, a small reactor...
1428260;1457563638;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0005266 = 4.2655 BTC [+] {2} 
1428261;1457563929;mircea_popescu;amuysingly, trilema's most read item this month is http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/
1428262;1457563930;assbot;And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvB8Kx )
1428263;1457563956;asciilifeform;l0l!
1428264;1457563959;mircea_popescu;i wonder how many wwwtrons the same size actually have this phenomena, where 3 yo article tops the charts. happens to me rather frequently.
1428265;1457563977;mircea_popescu;it's actually rare that something penned the current month is the top read item.
1428266;1457563981;asciilifeform;mine. for YEARS.
1428267;1457564002;mircea_popescu;yeah but trilema is larger than verge for traffic, not quite the same.
1428268;1457564008;mircea_popescu;!up tcrypt
1428269;1457564020;asciilifeform;see, e.g., http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42#comments
1428270;1457564022;assbot;Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0s63V )
1428271;1457564029;asciilifeform;immortal thread.
1428272;1457564043;*;mircea_popescu goes to read
1428273;1457564049;asciilifeform;old crud
1428274;1457564063;asciilifeform;still drawing in livid idiots
1428275;1457564151;asciilifeform;'09 - present.
1428276;1457564161;mircea_popescu;says 2012 neh ?
1428277;1457564191;mircea_popescu;look, yesterday!
1428278;1457564225;asciilifeform;2009.
1428279;1457564259;asciilifeform;most recent comment- a few days ago.
1428280;1457564290;asciilifeform;(might have to click page to see it)
1428281;1457564298;mircea_popescu;<mircea_popescu> look, yesterday! <
1428282;1457564303;asciilifeform;aha
1428283;1457564353;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-17596 << lulzy
1428284;1457564355;assbot;Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0sz64 )
1428285;1457564430;mircea_popescu;anyway, my takeaway from that is that 2012  alfie does not yet know how to go for the jugular of idiots. just identifies things to be angry about, gets angry about them and flails.
1428286;1457564460;asciilifeform;my www gets surprising traffic, naturally to no apparently useful end
1428287;1457564479;mircea_popescu;well, thjat's the fate of the web generally.
1428288;1457564500;asciilifeform;Thursday June 25 2009.
1428289;1457564526;mircea_popescu;ah right you are. was going by 1st comment date.
1428290;1457564529;asciilifeform;and did 'go for jugular' on quite a few, see comments ?
1428291;1457564535;mircea_popescu;link me.
1428292;1457564544;asciilifeform;and those of sequel
1428293;1457564565;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374
1428294;1457564566;assbot;Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0sY8C )
1428295;1457564579;mircea_popescu;no, link me to an exemplary case of jugular.
1428296;1457564614;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00052841 = 5.2313 BTC [+] {2} 
1428297;1457564667;asciilifeform;e.g., http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3256 , whole thread?
1428298;1457564669;assbot;Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0t4wU )
1428299;1457564675;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6351 @ 0.00052842 = 3.356 BTC [+]
1428300;1457564691;mircea_popescu;you probably realise already that once the reference has to be "whole thread" i win.
1428301;1457564725;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3385
1428302;1457564726;assbot;Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0tbIX )
1428303;1457564762;mircea_popescu;"Dear Luc prefontaine,  > Your last post shows how little you know about Clojure.  Your arguments show how little experience (or memory thereof) you have with genuine, interactive, conceptually-consistent Lisp systems."
1428304;1457564770;asciilifeform;and if not this, then i prolly don't even rightfully apprehend what mircea_popescu had in mind
1428305;1457564775;mircea_popescu;let me tell you a story.
1428306;1457564781;mircea_popescu;one day, it was the turtle's birthday.
1428307;1457564797;mircea_popescu;all its friends in the forest brought it gifts. items that they themselves would have preferred.
1428308;1457564807;mircea_popescu;the lion brought it meat. the bear, honey.
1428309;1457564818;mircea_popescu;eventually, all the poor turtle got out of the monstrous party was one salad leaf.
1428310;1457564871;mircea_popescu;yes, your dismissal of dear luc is, by some sort of exterior standard, correct. this is not the same as confronting the offender with the inconsistency of his own view ~in his own terms~, which is what i had in mind.
1428311;1457564953;asciilifeform;i tried this often, but was never really good at it.
1428312;1457565011;asciilifeform;the idiots have an impenetrable armour plate
1428313;1457565018;mircea_popescu;well cuz you don't like people.
1428314;1457565023;mircea_popescu;ah, but that's besides the point.
1428315;1457565025;mircea_popescu;!up Jordan_
1428316;1457565041;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00052777 = 1.2139 BTC [-] {2} 
1428317;1457565061;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform understand, "confronting tghe offender with the inconsistency of his own view ~in his own terms~" does not at all mean "geting him to stop being an idiot". not in any sense.
1428318;1457565096;asciilifeform;what, then ?
1428319;1457565225;asciilifeform;also i will note, it is somewhat more difficult to bludgeon morons as a dervish, than from a dirigible.
1428320;1457565237;shinohai;;;ticker
1428321;1457565238;gribble;Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 412.02, Best ask: 412.07, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 412.02, 24 hour volume: 8895.859384380001, 24 hour low: 407.47, 24 hour high: 414.5, 24 hour vwap: None
1428322;1457565262;shinohai;Nice logs again someone must have given nubbins a xanax.
1428323;1457565304;asciilifeform;'if yer so smart, why aintcha rich!' 'paulgraham hates you, the gods forsake you'
1428324;1457565313;JBBetter;Are there developers in here for bitbet.us?
1428325;1457565669;mats;yes.
1428326;1457565728;JBBetter;ok, hopefully can message me. Want to discuss about the platform
1428327;1457565771;mircea_popescu;specifically ?
1428328;1457565812;JBBetter;developing it into something bigger
1428329;1457565833;mircea_popescu;ok, but that's not very specific is it ?
1428330;1457565874;JBBetter;right, would want to go into pm or private room
1428331;1457565900;mircea_popescu;well, for that you'll have to get into the wot, establish yourself, read the logs for a while...
1428332;1457565993;mircea_popescu;shinohai i guess "community organizing" doesn't pay as well as one'd have expected or w/e.
1428333;1457566007;JBBetter;That is fine with me.
1428334;1457566012;mircea_popescu;!h
1428335;1457566012;assbot;http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
1428336;1457566013;shinohai;Just ask Obama
1428337;1457566019;mircea_popescu;^ can start there JBBetter
1428338;1457566065;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform  : "> This last post from you indicates clearly that your horizon is limited and you are allergic to new ideas and cannot bring facts and rationale to your statements.  Pray tell, just what are the �new� ideas in Clojure? The idea of setting up an ersatz Lisp on top of the JVM is not the least bit new. Neither is immutable data." << readily the best bit in there. and it is pretty good as it is.
1428339;1457566112;mircea_popescu;also, did you ever hit lydia ?
1428340;1457566123;Azelphur;mircea_popescu: did ya spot my PM? :P
1428341;1457566156;mircea_popescu;about the RagnarDanneskjol fellow ? i have no idea what he does tbh.
1428342;1457566158;mircea_popescu;;;seen RagnarDanneskjol
1428343;1457566158;gribble;RagnarDanneskjol was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 50 weeks, 4 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <RagnarDanneskjol> trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. if anyone here's partial to the name I can pass it over.   Wow that xm42
1428344;1457566166;mircea_popescu;been longer than that afaik.
1428345;1457566168;Azelphur;mircea_popescu: my former employer :P
1428346;1457566196;Azelphur;just thought it might amuse you, gone from bad to worse :)
1428347;1457566441;fluffypony;wasn't he the headhunter trying to hire staff for everyone?
1428348;1457566453;*;fluffypony has a vague recollection
1428349;1457566459;Azelphur;fluffypony: that's the one
1428350;1457566460;mircea_popescu;a while back, yeah. don't think it worked out too well in the end.
1428351;1457566475;mircea_popescu;possibly not much demand.
1428352;1457566476;fluffypony;yeah
1428353;1457566500;Azelphur;I worked for him for a little over a year, he stopped paying me, now I hear he's taking web dev work and telling clients I'm working on their projects...I quit back in December and have no knowledge of said projects
1428354;1457566527;mircea_popescu;is this basically one of those freelancer coder teams thing ?
1428355;1457566548;Azelphur;something like that, only minus the team I guess?
1428356;1457566558;mircea_popescu;lol k
1428357;1457566597;Azelphur;At least, the above is what I was told by one of his supposed clients
1428358;1457566721;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b33
1428359;1457566766;mircea_popescu;2:1 by now he gets nomination and 1:2 he wins.
1428360;1457567013;mircea_popescu;fluffypony tbh i did spend some time thinking about it - then. i don't see how what he was trying to do could have worked. why the everloving would someone here eschew the benefit of the wot and "hire someone to hire" for you ?
1428361;1457567041;mircea_popescu;when s.mg needed a tech hand diana_coman got it ; the job wasn't on the market nor would s.mg have continued had the job had to go to the market.
1428362;1457567050;fluffypony;yeah, seemed a colossal waste of time in the end
1428363;1457567068;mircea_popescu;pretty much the only way he could have made economic sense was by marketing the spare cycles of well connected people here - outside.
1428364;1457567088;mircea_popescu;that seems workable on the surface - until you realise that the one thing being here promises is that those people won't generally WANT to work for $cubefarm.
1428365;1457567092;mircea_popescu;just ask alf.
1428366;1457567097;mircea_popescu;and so... not yet a cracked nut.
1428367;1457567348;mircea_popescu;i suppose to be cracked the same way all of them get cracked - guy with immense downlist and very well connected gets off his lazy, stupid fiat-ass and goes through the wot selection process. then has enough spots specific and high level enough to interest the locals. seems a tall order.
1428368;1457567380;mircea_popescu;might as well demand trump learns a foreign language.
1428369;1457567407;mircea_popescu;"why would i ??!?! i am going to be the president of the united states!" "because you're one twist away from being an idiot" "so ?!"
1428370;1457567664;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.00052589 = 14.3568 BTC [-] {9} 
1428371;1457569996;mircea_popescu;in other news, arstechnica "mathematically proves" holocaust never happened : http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/02/large-scale-conspiracies-are-mathematically-impossible-to-keep-quiet/
1428372;1457569997;assbot;Large-scale conspiracies are mathematically impossible to keep quiet | Ars Technica UK ... ( http://bit.ly/220WMyP )
1428373;1457570016;mircea_popescu;thanks god we got rid of algebra ii in time for the education of arstechnica staff.
1428374;1457570053;asciilifeform;well they had manhattan project but then ran out of conspiratronium so dun work no moar
1428375;1457570054;asciilifeform;or sumthing.
1428376;1457570067;mircea_popescu;no dude it is mathematically impossibru!
1428377;1457570087;mircea_popescu;large scale conspiracy such as telling idiots they're not idiots could never happen. why would an idiot ever believe he's not an idiot ?!
1428378;1457570163;mircea_popescu;what, next you're going to say we have actual proof the usg had been running a string of massive conspiracies, such as you know, inserting backdoors in software, such as "parallel construction", such as iran contra, such as whatever the hell.
1428379;1457570207;mircea_popescu;but anyway - now that ars technica has proven that black slavery never happened, we can go back to separate but equal, i guess.
1428380;1457570359;fluffypony;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484447/Romanian-wife-rips-husband-s-testicles-International-Women-s-Day-refused-housework.html
1428381;1457570359;assbot;Romanian wife rips off husband's testicles on International Women's Day after he refused to do housework | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/220XyM2 )
1428382;1457570479;mircea_popescu; http://www.evz.ro/o-femeie-i-a-taiat-testiculele-sotului-sau-pentru-ca-nu-i-a-luat-flori-de-8-martie.html << holy shit it's real.
1428383;1457570481;assbot;ATAC BIZAR de 8 Martie: O femeie i-a TĂIAT TESTICULELE soţului său pentru că nu i-a luat FLORI ... ( http://bit.ly/220XLih )
1428384;1457570506;mircea_popescu;(the issue seems to be over not getting flowers for 8th march, "mother's day" in commie lands)
1428385;1457570619;mircea_popescu;http://adevarul.ro/assets/adevarul.ro/MRImage/2016/03/08/56df0b335ab6550cb8a30785/646x404.jpg
1428386;1457570620;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1R81ZJC )
1428387;1457570636;mircea_popescu;rural northwestern ro, sorta redneck land.
1428388;1457570708;asciilifeform;dulap!
1428389;1457570765;nubbins`;wow lel, this is old but
1428390;1457570766;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703956.msg7982877#msg7982877
1428391;1457570769;assbot;[Havelock] HASH - Mining Equipment Sales, Contracts, More ... ( http://bit.ly/220YqR1 )
1428392;1457570774;mircea_popescu;anyway. apparnetly, not married, living together for 15 years, he owns the house, she's basically a tramp, dude drinks and nonconsensually humiliates the woman, had been driving her nuts the whole night, she lost it, is now sorry, tried to fix on teh spot, visits at hospital etc.
1428393;1457570774;nubbins`;^ re: the20yearplan / rentalstarter
1428394;1457570776;mircea_popescu;a real life drama.
1428395;1457571254;mircea_popescu;in happier news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdeqz8YFva1rq3gc6o1_1280.jpg
1428396;1457571255;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1R831FF )
1428397;1457572484;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1428398;1457572486;gribble;1206873564.77
1428399;1457573581;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00052323 = 1.779 BTC [-] {4} 
1428400;1457574315;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1428401;1457574319;gribble;Current Blocks: 401953 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1246 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 5 hours, 51 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1428402;1457575004;mircea_popescu;!up jidan
1428403;1457575116;jidan;thanks
1428404;1457575427;mircea_popescu;aha. who're you ?
1428405;1457575475;jidan;just a pleb.. hoping to see some chat
1428406;1457575620;mircea_popescu;enjoy.
1428407;1457575853;deedbot-;[Qntra] Mainstream Media Hyping US Legacy In Iraq: Iraqi Made Chemical Weapons - http://qntra.net/2016/03/mainstream-media-hyping-us-legacy-in-iraq-iraqi-made-chemical-weapons/
1428408;1457576767;BingoBoingo;In other lulz http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Anonymous-tip-claims-raw-milk-caused-illnesses-at-Capitol-371487251.html
1428409;1457576769;assbot;Anonymous tip claims raw milk caused illnesses at Capitol ... ( http://bit.ly/1RS6fjH )
1428410;1457577850;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428363 << ahahahaha ad if there were connected people here !
1428411;1457577850;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 23:44:28; mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way he could have made economic sense was by marketing the spare cycles of well connected people here - outside.
1428412;1457577890;asciilifeform;( mircea_popescu , who doesn't hire anyone but plumbers, does not for this purpose count )
1428413;1457577906;asciilifeform;*as if
1428414;1457577936;asciilifeform;or did i read that backwards ?
1428415;1457577982;asciilifeform;and does anyone here actually have spare cycles.
1428416;1457578025;BingoBoingo;for some definitions of spare
1428417;1457578162;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428365 << i do unspeakable things to pay billz (not in a literal cube, but this is the ~one~ saving grace)
1428418;1457578162;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 23:44:52; mircea_popescu: just ask alf.
1428419;1457578245;asciilifeform;but yes, the ONLY possible thing i would ever consider a job upgrade is ... not having to leave the house, or talk
1428420;1457578327;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428367 << pigs will not only fly, but to mars.
1428421;1457578327;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 23:49:08; mircea_popescu: i suppose to be cracked the same way all of them get cracked - guy with immense downlist and very well connected gets off his lazy, stupid fiat-ass and goes through the wot selection process. then has enough spots specific and high level enough to interest the locals. seems a tall order.
1428422;1457578791;asciilifeform;;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com
1428423;1457578795;gribble;log.bitcoin-assets.com is down
1428424;1457578807;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: ?
1428425;1457579086;asciilifeform;hm, nm?
1428426;1457579190;kakobrekla;it seems it was down for 3 minutes
1428427;1457579440;asciilifeform;interesting.
1428428;1457579797;kakobrekla;and again apparently
1428429;1457583276;gernika;asciilifeform: do you operate the EE Tools EeRom-8U (I think you referenced it in the logs recently) with windows?  If so, with which 10 foot pole?
1428430;1457583291;asciilifeform;gernika: working on reversed driver.
1428431;1457583303;gernika;of course
1428432;1457583343;gernika;for personal use only?
1428433;1457583350;asciilifeform;eventually will post.
1428434;1457583354;gernika;sweet
1428435;1457583359;asciilifeform;for the 5 people or so worldwide who give a fuck.
1428436;1457583382;asciilifeform;kinda like what i did here, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=668
1428437;1457583384;assbot;Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )
1428438;1457583394;gernika;It looked like there was a dos util for it -- then I realized that was from 1999.
1428439;1457583405;asciilifeform;that was for prev version
1428440;1457583408;asciilifeform;with, iirc, parallel port.
1428441;1457583415;asciilifeform;unobtainable today.
1428442;1457583437;asciilifeform;lulzily, eerom uses ~same chipset as the linked ^ above !!
1428443;1457583451;asciilifeform;(inside is also a xilinx fpga and some sram.)
1428444;1457583588;asciilifeform;but to go back to original question, yes, winblowz crapolade runs on boxes designated for the purpose
1428445;1457583595;asciilifeform;(normally used to run malware)
1428446;1457583687;gernika;ok.  bleh.  one more laptop laying around the house couldn't hurt I guess.
1428447;1457583712;asciilifeform;gernika: what's your use case for eerom ?
1428448;1457583766;gernika;I'm just going to try out some z80 stuff.  seems easier to use this than flashing eeproms.
1428449;1457583771;asciilifeform;sure is.
1428450;1457583798;asciilifeform;comes with two snakes, can stuff right in the place of a 1980s rom.
1428451;1457583823;gernika;oh  yeah - wasn't clear to me how to plug the thing in
1428452;1457583827;asciilifeform;the thing also can, apparently, emulate an sram, and even generically master an 8-bit bus
1428453;1457583832;asciilifeform;but i have not tried this yet.
1428454;1457596700;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052437 = 2.3072 BTC [+] {3} 
1428455;1457598374;punkman;http://searchengineland.com/rip-google-pagerank-retrospective-244286
1428456;1457598376;assbot;RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web ... ( http://bit.ly/1TvcDRh )
1428457;1457600230;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> or did i read that backwards ? <<< seems so ?
1428458;1457603543;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> for the 5 people or so worldwide << oif which apparently two here ?
1428459;1457605193;mircea_popescu;assbot> RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web << this is not an idle comment. google, like every other usg item, like usg collectively, was entrusted with great responsibility in many fields after the war.
1428460;1457605207;mircea_popescu;without exception it fucked up ALL of these. and not lightly fuck them up, either.
1428461;1457606586;mircea_popescu;in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence available outside the w
1428462;1457606586;mircea_popescu;alls, and more likely than not we'll be stuck picking between a warty rat and a sickly mole.
1428463;1457606626;mircea_popescu;in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.
1428464;1457606824;davout;i'm really not convinced we'll see a HF this year
1428465;1457606855;mircea_popescu;i'm not convinced either. but there's the possibility.
1428466;1457606921;davout;!s segwit
1428467;1457606922;assbot;26 results for 'segwit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=segwit
1428468;1457606978;mircea_popescu;so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.
1428469;1457607107;jurov;extract alf from mordor?
1428470;1457607141;mircea_popescu;but hwat if the princess is in another castle!
1428471;1457607152;jurov;but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?
1428472;1457607194;mircea_popescu;well ideally a sane pow ; better ciphers ; etc.
1428473;1457607200;davout;pogo's still high on my personal what-do-if-spare-cycles list
1428474;1457607200;mircea_popescu;but by and large, a working miner people can deploy.
1428475;1457607214;mircea_popescu;davout how's that coming along ?
1428476;1457607269;davout;not much happening on my side
1428477;1457610737;danielpbarron;!up kodemurani
1428478;1457611042;*;shinohai will take notes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428463
1428479;1457611042;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:46; mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.
1428480;1457611259;kodemurani;wondering if there is any discussion here on ether
1428481;1457611301;kodemurani;Thank you danielpbarron for the voice
1428482;1457611336;shinohai;Plenty of discussion here. When there isn't, there is a plethora of information in the logs.
1428483;1457611441;kodemurani;Thanks shinohai. Going through the logs
1428484;1457611472;shinohai;!h
1428485;1457611472;assbot;http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
1428486;1457611477;shinohai; also that
1428487;1457611519;davout;kodemurani: https://medium.com/@bedeho/why-your-ethereum-project-will-most-likely-fail-d14b6d8f1c7c#.oqv393xrf <<< interesting, re ether
1428488;1457611520;assbot;Why your Ethereum project will most likely fail — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1Wbtsyp )
1428489;1457611535;davout;"The lesson of the very well built lighthouse Bitcoin project, which has resulted in no more than a few thousand dollars of funding over the past years, has to be that there is extremely little value to be gained by introducing trustless escrow in crowdfunding. Even if you wanted to crowdfund something very controversial, where traditional web platforms will ban you, its not at all clear that disintermediating holding funds before cap is re
1428490;1457611535;davout;ached is a big part of making this type of crowdfunding effective. Even worse, the project organizer could always fund the remainder of the contract privately, hence it is not at all clear that there is any actual gain of security. While it was a nice use of SIGHASH_ALL, it really solved a non-problem"
1428491;1457611543;davout;^guy has it
1428492;1457611640;shinohai;Ether is simply a Rube Goldbergesque way of making money for it's founder to buy a lifetime supply of Retin-A. When he has it *poof*
1428493;1457611688;davout;"The best case scenario for most of these projects is that there are end user benefits for other reasons, and that Ethereum is not required to deliver them. The complexity, and cost, of doing blockchain based products will in such cases eventually drive such products off chain, the same way changetip eventually went off-chain, and now recently into fiat mode."
1428494;1457612092;fluffypony;davout: I made that exact argument at a meetup in Berlin last year where someone presented some junk they're building on Ethereum
1428495;1457612106;shinohai;"This is the Ethereum app directory with all non-working, gambling and meta apps removed."  https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png   <<< I kek'd at this.
1428496;1457612107;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Legaku )
1428497;1457612114;fluffypony;and I asked them why they were building on Ethereum, and despite much hand-waving they couldn't give me an actual reason
1428498;1457612227;fluffypony;most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so
1428499;1457612269;davout;to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain
1428500;1457612275;davout;1. decentralized timestamping
1428501;1457612281;davout;2. making taxes optional
1428502;1457612309;davout;bbl
1428503;1457612866;shinohai;!up kodemurani
1428504;1457612975;punkman;https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png << we have pretty much all of those here :D
1428505;1457612976;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Legaku )
1428506;1457612986;kodemurani;That report on ethereum is rather discouraging. (why ehtereum project will most likely fail) :-(
1428507;1457613006;kodemurani;May be true
1428508;1457613109;shinohai;heh punkman you are right! xD
1428509;1457613228;fluffypony;kodemurani: this is not new information
1428510;1457613244;fluffypony;all rational, thinking people have known this to be the expected outcome from the very beginning
1428511;1457613332;danielpbarron;welp, AlphaGo is 2-0
1428512;1457613348;asciilifeform;moar of the same.
1428513;1457613352;asciilifeform;as last night.
1428514;1457613382;danielpbarron;glad i didn't bet
1428515;1457613395;danielpbarron;sfyl
1428516;1457613399;asciilifeform;l0l
1428517;1457613425;asciilifeform;losing at bbet is pretty much the only place i can blow btc !
1428518;1457613444;asciilifeform;(it is certainly where most of the ones i ever had, went.)
1428519;1457613448;danielpbarron;i'm pretty good at doing that too
1428520;1457613489;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461 << guess what ~i personally won't ever be caught dead doing~ ???
1428521;1457613489;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence avai
1428522;1457613518;asciilifeform;while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
1428523;1457613554;asciilifeform;because not separable from usg in any meaningful way except - DEFINITIONALLY - by entering the wot and doing a LONG tour of duty as a Real Person
1428524;1457613641;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428468 << again, anyone who wants to follow a usg fork, can do it without me. and who wants to use a prb fork of whatever variety or rationale, can do it without me. ditto halfcocked crud conceived to enrich chinese scum.
1428525;1457613641;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:49:38; mircea_popescu: so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.
1428526;1457613693;asciilifeform;i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'
1428527;1457613747;shinohai;I will use trb as long as it works on the overall network, failing that I will have to find something else to occupy my time.
1428528;1457613750;asciilifeform;this pointedly does not mean that i am interested in attempting to wash the smell of shit off a rando sickly rat from rando sewer.
1428529;1457613771;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428471 << ada.
1428530;1457613771;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:52:32; jurov: but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?
1428531;1457613791;asciilifeform;i am sick and tired of there being usg c/cpp code in the loop ANYWHERE.
1428532;1457613807;asciilifeform;ENOUGH wotless nonboundschecked language.
1428533;1457613893;asciilifeform;(i loathe ada, but this needs a BOUNDS-CHECKED language where i can AUDIT THE BINARY and NO RUNTIME COMPONENT / GC - which leaves exactly ONE)
1428534;1457613929;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428469 << l0l you and with what crane, will extract.
1428535;1457613929;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:51:47; jurov: extract alf from mordor?
1428536;1457614052;asciilifeform;it would, i suspect, take me 1/2 y to 1y of UNINTERRUPTED full time to come up with the goods. which pointedly isn't in any danger of happening.
1428537;1457614130;asciilifeform;so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.
1428538;1457614247;asciilifeform;i will repeat, i have NO interest in any 'bitcoin replacement' originating from outside of the wot.
1428539;1457614249;shinohai;As I told mod6 I do not advocate surrender myself :/
1428540;1457614262;asciilifeform;anybody who wants to surrender, can go and do it without me.
1428541;1457614371;jurov;so whole shiva stuff is ded alley for you?
1428542;1457614381;asciilifeform;jurov: it is for working on trb !
1428543;1457614398;jurov;oh i misunderstood
1428544;1457614408;danielpbarron;who suggested using a non-wot fork??
1428545;1457614432;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.
1428546;1457614446;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461  <<< this?
1428547;1457614446;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence avai
1428548;1457614460;asciilifeform;aha.
1428549;1457614475;asciilifeform;it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.
1428550;1457614488;danielpbarron;oh, ew
1428551;1457614511;shinohai;mircea_popescu is under stress lately perhaps and needs a nice lsd trip to put things in perspective :D
1428552;1457614567;asciilifeform;shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?
1428553;1457614588;*;danielpbarron once had a 'vial' of the stuff; used it to put drops on sugar cubes, eat and go for bike ride in the summer
1428554;1457614630;*;asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible
1428555;1457614636;shinohai;lsd usually inspires clarity of thought and creativity tho.
1428556;1457614649;danielpbarron;still had a little left for my great purge when i burned the contents of my drug box as well as some eastern philosophy texts and my karate uniform
1428557;1457614733;shinohai;Heh I forgot I have mebbe 1/2 gram of 25C-nBOMe left xD
1428558;1457614767;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'
1428559;1457614767;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:49; davout: to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain
1428560;1457614818;danielpbarron;yeah that's the question.. what to 'divest' into.. old computer parts?
1428561;1457614849;shinohai;That's mainly what I use BTC for - equipment. (When I can actually acquire it!)
1428562;1457614857;danielpbarron;someone set up that sommelier thing already
1428563;1457614865;asciilifeform;i have NO use for btc other than escape glider from my auschwitz
1428564;1457614885;asciilifeform;and this means absolutely NO use for sub-orbital quantity.
1428565;1457614897;asciilifeform;except to 'hodl'.
1428566;1457614956;danielpbarron;although without a bitcoin i don't have much interest in computer parts anyway, so that's a catch-22
1428567;1457614982;danielpbarron;i had all but given up on computers entirely until i found bitcoin
1428568;1457615015;danielpbarron;for several years even
1428569;1457615053;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428562 << it is set up right here.
1428570;1457615053;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 13:00:57; danielpbarron: someone set up that sommelier thing already
1428571;1457615071;danielpbarron;i got that hp workstation you recommened
1428572;1457615078;asciilifeform;i recommended it ?!
1428573;1457615080;asciilifeform;l0l
1428574;1457615097;danielpbarron;you linked some thing on ebay, has amd processer and ecc ram or whatever
1428575;1457615105;asciilifeform;aha but i didn't buy it!
1428576;1457615120;asciilifeform;i don't buy whole computer (other than portables, for restricted uses)
1428577;1457615127;asciilifeform;and don't recommend to others to do it!
1428578;1457615145;asciilifeform;notice how mircea_popescu pointedly also doesn't ?
1428579;1457615175;asciilifeform;but re: the sommelier thing, i would happily supply folks with sane hardware, but this would 1) take serious time & effort while 2) wouldn't pay my billz
1428580;1457615178;asciilifeform;so it ain't happening.
1428581;1457615186;asciilifeform;just liek many other things, won't be happening.
1428582;1457615219;asciilifeform;i am having to work 14-18 hrs/day (including slavemine) just to make some of these not-happenings possibly happen.
1428583;1457615298;danielpbarron;how much do you need for this year off to build sane trb ? maybe we can crowdfund it
1428584;1457615312;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: i'd have to spend half of that year looking for next work.
1428585;1457615323;asciilifeform;and half of what remains, as usg tax
1428586;1457615327;danielpbarron;next work is maintaining said trb
1428587;1457615341;asciilifeform;also on loose change from folks' sofa cushions ?!
1428588;1457615342;asciilifeform;l0l
1428589;1457615362;danielpbarron;well i got nothing else to spend my stupid btc on
1428590;1457615460;asciilifeform;'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade
1428591;1457615465;asciilifeform;but that is pointedly not what we have here.
1428592;1457615488;asciilifeform;the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing
1428593;1457615505;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428526 <<< have to disagree here, bitcoin had value to me sometime in 2010, the minute i finished the white-paper
1428594;1457615505;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:41:33; asciilifeform: i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'
1428595;1457615514;asciilifeform;davout: value to me also.
1428596;1457615525;asciilifeform;but i was speaking of value to usg looters.
1428597;1457615541;asciilifeform;who have a five-minute attention span and atrocious tunnel vision, and need ~immediates~
1428598;1457615868;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428558 <<< true, all these points neatly coalesce into "actually being money" anyway
1428599;1457615868;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:59:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'
1428600;1457615900;danielpbarron;asciilifeform> the 'reddit appeal' of what we do << i didn't mean reaching out any further than in this very channel
1428601;1457616018;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: mircea_popescu believes (and i'm not convinced that he's wrong) that hiring people lowers them into pederasty. and he's the ~only fella with money here. so then.
1428602;1457616031;danielpbarron;i have some
1428603;1457616082;asciilifeform;we're talking about ~= 1/2m u.s. here.
1428604;1457616107;danielpbarron;20 people with 25k
1428605;1457616164;asciilifeform;danielpbarron must have eaten that last vial of lsd! i sincerely wish him a good trip. but now i gotta go and start the engine and ride to the place where i sit on a stake for most every day.
1428606;1457616165;*;asciilifeform bbl.
1428607;1457616605;shinohai;Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.
1428608;1457616613;punkman;you need $500k a year ?!
1428609;1457617011;punkman;anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.
1428610;1457617158;davout;punkman: unless these particular inputs are blacklisted by the Chinese Cartel(TM)
1428611;1457617188;danielpbarron;is it funny?
1428612;1457617850;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: "Pederasty is an ancient Greek form of interaction in which members of the same sex would partake in the pleasures of an intellectual and/or sexual relationship as part of a socially acceptable ancient custom " << uh ok...
1428613;1457617901;thestringpuller;"a (usually erotic) homosexual relationship between an adult male and a pubescent or adolescent male. "
1428614;1457618125;jurov;drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired
1428615;1457618184;nubbins`;never too late
1428616;1457618208;nubbins`;still no signed financials from s.bbet
1428617;1457618217;nubbins`;s.mpoe still tanking
1428618;1457618227;nubbins`;still business as usual
1428619;1457618235;*;danielpbarron stabs nubbins` 
1428620;1457618254;nubbins`;* danielpbarronhugs nubbins`
1428621;1457618257;nubbins`;wai what?
1428622;1457618270;nubbins`;i thought you didn't like me anymore
1428623;1457618273;danielpbarron;that's a violation of the rules you like to cite so much
1428624;1457618290;nubbins`;o.O
1428625;1457618342;danielpbarron;>> On the other hand professional also implies that you understand how context works, and will never ever under any circumstances omit relevant context when quoting, especially when such omission changes the meaning of your quote and the quoted then has to point this out to you like you were some sort of politician or assimilated retard.
1428626;1457618343;nubbins`;which rule now?
1428627;1457618373;*;nubbins` searches for something he quoted, comes up blank
1428628;1457618410;nubbins`;danielpbarron your logic doesn't follow, again
1428629;1457618415;jurov;nubbins`: i take it you're stabbing/hugging each other in the pederasty context
1428630;1457618423;danielpbarron;l0l
1428631;1457618428;nubbins`;jurov danielpbarron  has a lot to learn, he's come to me for guidance
1428632;1457618433;nubbins`;he's a tough pupil
1428633;1457618443;danielpbarron;at least i'm not the catamite in that case
1428634;1457618452;nubbins`;o o o i see.
1428635;1457618461;nubbins`;sorry, i have a script that changes words of violence to words of kindness
1428636;1457618475;nubbins`;once i checked the log, i understood that you actually "stabbed" me
1428637;1457618509;nubbins`;besides, i didn't quote you without context, i *misquoted* you in the *midst* of context. jeez.
1428638;1457618525;nubbins`;am i literally the ONLY person who understands the rules around here?
1428639;1457618553;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428614 <<< kek
1428640;1457618553;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 13:55:25; jurov: drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired
1428641;1457618610;nubbins`;BRUSHSTRIKE: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. DKSensoryOverload: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. Eminent: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. Freshman: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. JerseyM54: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted.
1428642;1457618625;nubbins`;thanks, third-party graphic designer who obviously knows what they're doing
1428643;1457618650;danielpbarron;what work did you do for the Ministry of Games?
1428644;1457618704;nubbins`;danielpbarron i did several parcels of work for the ministry of games, in paid official capacity as well as volunteer/unofficial capacity.
1428645;1457618720;danielpbarron;be specific? was it artwork or something?
1428646;1457618751;punkman;is "lower someone into pederasty" a russian thing? the phrase never made much sense to me
1428647;1457618765;nubbins`;we created all of the heraldics for the family lines (yet to be implemented), i also produced the first round of OS X compilation instructions and helped get eulorum set up / own the domain
1428648;1457618788;danielpbarron;ah, so i've yet to see your work
1428649;1457618792;nubbins`;correct
1428650;1457618802;danielpbarron;i thought maybe you designed the item images or something
1428651;1457618810;nubbins`;noooo, nothing so basic
1428652;1457618817;nubbins`;we deal with "real art"
1428653;1457618827;danielpbarron;wasn't implying advanced vs basic
1428654;1457618832;nubbins`;of course not
1428655;1457618942;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2013#301976
1428656;1457618942;assbot;Logged on 11-09-2013 13:46:32; nubbins`: sneak peek of a concept sketch for the Eulora heraldics: http://imgur.com/Rx0KQDZ
1428657;1457618985;thestringpuller;did those ever get used in game?
1428658;1457619008;danielpbarron;not yet
1428659;1457619025;danielpbarron;no death yet, so no marriage
1428660;1457619041;thestringpuller;placing art in that game is a PITA. the planeshift engine (on top of cs) comes with 0 middleware.
1428661;1457619096;nubbins`;relevant log from heraldic delivery: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-10-2013#352304
1428662;1457619096;assbot;Logged on 17-10-2013 13:29:36; nubbins`: heraldry look OK?
1428663;1457619325;nubbins`;thestringpuller sounds like a job for.... whomever
1428664;1457619331;nubbins`;the only developer, i guess
1428665;1457619376;danielpbarron;who is Pascale Horan ?
1428666;1457619542;thestringpuller;Turning Planeshift + Crystalspace into Unity is like turning Bitcoin into Visa, so I don't think it should be a job for anyone.
1428667;1457619601;nubbins`;danielpbarron mai waifu
1428668;1457619621;danielpbarron;oh, in the context from which I found it, she was called 'he'
1428669;1457619652;danielpbarron;or rather, 'his'
1428670;1457619784;nubbins`;danielpbarron from "paschal", of or relating to easter. in various spellings, it's a male or female name
1428671;1457619796;nubbins`;pasquale, pascal, paschal, pascale, etc
1428672;1457619835;nubbins`;fr. aramaic "pasha" / hebrew "pesah"
1428673;1457620067;jurov;thestringpuller what do you mean, turning them into unity?
1428674;1457620086;jurov;the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them
1428675;1457620181;jurov;i have not looked to doing art, only to network (de)serialization in order for lisp to be able to send and receive messages
1428676;1457620277;jurov;ended up with horrible hack whereby in the process of deserialization the values are clandestinely pushed into lisp list...
1428677;1457620323;jurov;serialization was not possible this way, fortunately client needs to send only dozen types of messages
1428678;1457620423;jurov;i was thinking about it as potential learning practice for trb... but such things would make alf shit girder beams
1428679;1457620879;thestringpuller;jurov: not that I'm a huge fan of unity, but after playing Kerbal Space Program you have to give it a little credit. What it does have is a large layer of middleware which allows for much better asset management. Whereas in Planeshift + Crystalspace it's all handled in essentially a textfile...
1428680;1457621257;diana_coman;what's wrong with a textfile per se thestringpuller ?
1428681;1457621379;danielpbarron;aha! example of wife and husband sharing same key! one flesh, one key! >> http://trilema.com/2013/15th-blown-other-statements/#comment-93968
1428682;1457621381;assbot;15th blown, other statements. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QJIACU )
1428683;1457622065;diana_coman;re asciilifeform's meaning of pederasty in this context, I use his previous explanation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-02-2016#1416802
1428684;1457622065;assbot;Logged on 27-02-2016 19:14:30; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other end of pederasty
1428685;1457622166;punkman;diana_coman: ah I missed that somehow
1428686;1457622214;punkman;diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?
1428687;1457622288;diana_coman;depends on what you mean by "ideas" (i.e. desires in that direction plenty) and by getting rid of planeshift (code is already quite far - in a good sense - from original planeshift and yes, I absolutely want to take it further away)
1428688;1457622331;punkman;right
1428689;1457622531;thestringpuller;diana_coman: it's a textfile that has no middleware for artist to import assets into the engine. you have to either write it yourself or place the geometry in their yourself. It's 2016 not 1993.
1428690;1457622585;thestringpuller;Take Source for instance. You open up hammer, import your geometry (as a map), press play and Half Life loads with your assets.
1428691;1457622643;punkman;the whole game interface was a pain for me. I'd give it another go when that changes.
1428692;1457622682;diana_coman;uhm, thestringpuller I'll certainly have to study that, so I'll possibly get back to you on this then
1428693;1457622691;diana_coman;punkman, what do you mean exactly?
1428694;1457622909;mircea_popescu;punkman well, maybe wehen jurov releases the slime client :D
1428695;1457623105;nubbins`;thestringpuller / diana_coman it's worth noting that for a game like eulora, which should conceivably have massive amounts of art assets down the road, easier tools for getting those assets in place will drastically increase the volume and quality of em
1428696;1457623244;punkman;diana_coman: i just hated everything about it. moving/finding things in inventory, trying to equip things and and ending up with phantom copies if I didn't click just right. Trying to walk and floating at a 45 degree angle, falling to death off smooth hills. The claim sticks that are "points" in space and keys and... I dunno. I suppose some of that might have changed already.
1428697;1457623459;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428491 << guy does have it. "bitcoin" as seen by the prb/social media crowd is 99% solutions looking for a problem by weight.
1428698;1457623459;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:05:43; davout: ^guy has it
1428699;1457623472;mircea_popescu;and half of those are built in spaces where provably no problem existsw.
1428700;1457623528;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428498 << they do, but don't wish to say.
1428701;1457623528;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:07; fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so
1428702;1457623570;mircea_popescu;why do you suppose wanna-be singer/waitress sends demos with britney spears' stuff rather than actual music ? "this is fashionable, maybe some rubs off on me!"
1428703;1457623741;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 << don't make me guess, supposed to be a strategy discussion!
1428704;1457623741;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
1428705;1457623764;mircea_popescu;and note that i include (continue with current bitcoin) in the same (intelligence outside the wot) pile. which it is.
1428706;1457623897;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.
1428707;1457623897;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:48:50; asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.
1428708;1457623925;asciilifeform;pointedly not the same.
1428709;1457623935;asciilifeform;like bones pre- vs post- h-bomb strontium.
1428710;1457623959;mircea_popescu;1 is, the perfect bitcoin. which, logically, would NOT conserve coinbases. as such, it has no meaningful humantime continuity with the present Bitcoin, and so it can be done at any point etc.
1428711;1457623960;mircea_popescu;2. is the usable interim continuation of the bitcoin prototype. which, obviously, doesn't HAVE TO exist at all points to 1, but it may help if it does. we're here mostly discussing 2, i think.
1428712;1457623982;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's no proof you can produce for this strontium assertion.
1428713;1457623992;mircea_popescu;note that hearn and gavin were "there" since year 2.
1428714;1457624000;asciilifeform;it is axiomatic.
1428715;1457624021;mircea_popescu;it was axiomatic.
1428716;1457624023;asciilifeform;they were ~there~ but not effectual.
1428717;1457624045;mircea_popescu;yeahwell..
1428718;1457624052;mircea_popescu;the code looks pretty shitty...
1428719;1457624116;mircea_popescu;in any case : while a hierarchy could perhaps be constructed in the "not in wot" pile, as you propose or otherwise,
1428720;1457624121;mircea_popescu;this doesn't put satoshi in your wot, still.
1428721;1457624151;asciilifeform;right
1428722;1457624162;mircea_popescu;so in this sense, your objections as stated don't cut anything.
1428723;1457624174;asciilifeform;but there were reasons why i was willing to operate on  his crud.
1428724;1457624195;asciilifeform;which will NEVER apply to gavin & co.
1428725;1457624219;mircea_popescu;most of the crud you operate on was written by gavin & co.
1428726;1457624237;asciilifeform;and i strip it away.
1428727;1457624241;mircea_popescu;right.
1428728;1457624241;asciilifeform;and intend to strip ALL of it.
1428729;1457624251;mircea_popescu;you ever seen what bitcoin 0.2 was like ?
1428730;1457624255;asciilifeform;yes.
1428731;1457624263;mircea_popescu;right.
1428732;1457624276;asciilifeform;but this discussion is NOT only about code.
1428733;1457624284;mircea_popescu;go on
1428734;1457624297;asciilifeform;a usg fork exists to enrich usg. and i will have NO part  in it.
1428735;1457624322;asciilifeform;and give NO quarter to satan.
1428736;1457624354;mircea_popescu;looky here, maybe i'm not communicating well.
1428737;1457624392;mircea_popescu;currently, there exists bitcoin. while this is soupier than we'd like and perhaps the collapsed eigenstate is slowly vibrating away into an undecided cloud, nevertheless, for the sake of discussion, let's say.
1428738;1457624437;mircea_popescu;tomorrow, there will be : 1) mit-hardfork, run by gavin and whatever anand prakashen they can find.
1428739;1457624450;mircea_popescu;2) a vc-hardfork, run by whatever's left of prb
1428740;1457624465;mircea_popescu;3) a miner-fork, run by whatever that fat dumb fuck can hire on freelancer.com
1428741;1457624476;asciilifeform;and where did trb go ?
1428742;1457624480;asciilifeform;martians stole it ?
1428743;1457624480;mircea_popescu;4) to perhaps 12 or whatever, hardforks run by various nuts.
1428744;1457624502;mircea_popescu;at this juncture, tmsr must make the decision if it will continue strictly with trb, or ALSO offer a tmsr fork of trb.
1428745;1457624513;mircea_popescu;in any case trb isn't going anywhere, nor need it go anywhere.
1428746;1457624521;asciilifeform;i'm fine with 'also'
1428747;1457624537;mircea_popescu;but you should note, that there is no good reason to consider current trb so much different from cases 1-3.
1428748;1457624549;asciilifeform;but i did say what i WON'T, under any circumstance  whatsoever, be part of.
1428749;1457624558;asciilifeform;and it is NOT the same.
1428750;1457624576;mircea_popescu;you gotta be specific. what it, same with what ?
1428751;1457624588;mircea_popescu;eliding the complements makes this discussion dangerous, both to us and to the future.
1428752;1457624629;asciilifeform;l0l i'm getting ~50 baud here
1428753;1457624694;asciilifeform;i will NOT be complicit in a reallocation of chainvalue to the enemy.
1428754;1457624718;mircea_popescu;there is a very specific danger which you perhaps are not seeing. if indeed we continu with trb as is, and if indeed 3) happens, as these two share pow and we don't control .7 or so exahash we become extremelty vulnerable. recall the fate of altcoin ?
1428755;1457624719;asciilifeform;NOR permit his dirty hands to further rape bitcoin src.
1428756;1457624728;asciilifeform;yes.
1428757;1457624746;mircea_popescu;so in this sense, "trb as is only" opens us up to being forced, later on, to pick among the idiots.
1428758;1457624750;mircea_popescu;which is the meaning ofwhat i said.
1428759;1457624772;asciilifeform;but it will mean that bitcoin died, perhaps to be reborn in~our~ planet
1428760;1457624785;mircea_popescu;perhaps or perhaps. looky, strategy discussions are about strategy.
1428761;1457624788;asciilifeform;but i will not spread legs for the nazis.
1428762;1457624799;mircea_popescu;ever seen black book movie ?
1428763;1457624802;mircea_popescu;chick's hawt.
1428764;1457624807;asciilifeform;would rather eat nagan.
1428765;1457624830;asciilifeform;surrender is not a strategy.
1428766;1457624850;mircea_popescu;lol tell that to stalin!
1428767;1457624871;mircea_popescu;anyway - what isn't a strategy is "if the bad thing happens i'll get really butthurt".
1428768;1457624884;mircea_popescu;strategy gotta be about action not feeling.
1428769;1457624897;asciilifeform;stalin - understood.
1428770;1457624944;asciilifeform;the set of available actions is small, and, i think, well-enumerated at this point.
1428771;1457625006;asciilifeform;if trb gets chainclobbered - it is 2009 again for us.
1428772;1457625041;asciilifeform;but i will not fellate the invader.
1428773;1457625215;mircea_popescu;so you propose to basically wait and see ?
1428774;1457625229;asciilifeform;no.
1428775;1457625263;asciilifeform;i will maintain trb, while 1,001 things incl. writing mine.
1428776;1457625277;asciilifeform;but at my pace it will take 20y.
1428777;1457625294;mircea_popescu;so basically you propose - wait and see on trb, meanwhile i'll also develop a fork variant which i won't either share or have ready in time ?
1428778;1457625301;asciilifeform;archaeologists will, possibly, find it.
1428779;1457625325;asciilifeform;what did mircea_popescu expect me to suggest?
1428780;1457625333;mircea_popescu;i do not expect anything, this is why this is a discussion.
1428781;1457625345;mircea_popescu;whatever your position is, it may be, but it gotta be explicit so everyone can build on it.
1428782;1457625347;asciilifeform;so here it is.
1428783;1457625351;mircea_popescu;alright.
1428784;1457625452;asciilifeform;and i will not spread arse for invader, and am not open to persuasion re same, hopefully this needs no further elucidation
1428785;1457625486;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428545 << i'm not suggesting anything. i'm saying, plainly, that AT LEAST ONCE in the past, you sucked a cock, which is how you are on THIS blockchain. so the argument "i'm no whore" holds no water. you WILL suck others in the future - best make sure they're ours.
1428786;1457625486;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:53:52; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.
1428787;1457625525;asciilifeform;well, old cock was gnat-sized.
1428788;1457625534;asciilifeform;new - t. rex
1428789;1457625570;mircea_popescu;hey. i have no artgument there.
1428790;1457625576;asciilifeform;see the schelling point thread.
1428791;1457625591;mircea_popescu;understand that if there's a summer of crazy, a NEW schelling will emerge.
1428792;1457625613;mircea_popescu;i don't see the future well enough to judge what chances we have, but i do see the future well enough to see that if you have no horse in a race, you can't win it.
1428793;1457625621;asciilifeform;it is like saying 'you conceded in a game of chess when you were 5, why not concede your father's house'
1428794;1457625709;asciilifeform;but yes, i would like to have the horse.
1428795;1457625710;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428549 << could we for maybe 5 minutes stop with this "panic at everything mp says" i'm starting to feel like a fucking divinity or something.
1428796;1457625710;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:54:35; asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.
1428797;1457625726;asciilifeform;i never panic.
1428798;1457625744;asciilifeform;had that muscle removed (tm)
1428799;1457625755;mircea_popescu;yeah well, it reads like it. anyway.
1428800;1457625800;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428554 << ahahaha natural lifespam, im bashing this.
1428801;1457625800;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:57:10; *: asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible
1428802;1457625923;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428552 << aw dude wtf. link!
1428803;1457625923;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:56:07; asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?
1428804;1457626051;asciilifeform;the 1,2,3,might have to choose thing
1428805;1457626087;mircea_popescu;and you don't see how jumping from that to this is exactly panic ?
1428806;1457626101;asciilifeform;nope?
1428807;1457626118;mircea_popescu;what can i say!
1428808;1457626128;asciilifeform;anyway i did not jump, assumed lsd.
1428809;1457626145;mircea_popescu;things are happening with or without permission, as a general rule. either you're prepared for the possible outcomes, or not.
1428810;1457626183;mircea_popescu;i'd rather we be prepared, if possible, and i pointedly not care how unpleasant a discussion may be to anyone's/everyone's favourite assumptions. so here we are.
1428811;1457626228;asciilifeform;i prepare for many things. but i also use everett's device. so i do not prepare for surrender and cocksucking ignominy.
1428812;1457626249;mircea_popescu;specifically : if miners come up with fork, what are you going to do ? so far all i hear is "blame de gods".
1428813;1457626254;shinohai;Discussion boosts morale.
1428814;1457626257;mircea_popescu;"de gods" are not there for you to blame.
1428815;1457626275;asciilifeform;work for 20 y or until dead to kill them all.
1428816;1457626287;mircea_popescu;too many chuck norris movies or something, srsly now.
1428817;1457626317;asciilifeform;no, that's more or less my whole adult life to date.
1428818;1457626318;mircea_popescu;did the separation discussed in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428706 connect, at all ?
1428819;1457626318;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 15:31:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.
1428820;1457626332;mircea_popescu;yes, sure, we'll be sooner or later coming out with the perfect bitcoin, or die trying.
1428821;1457626338;mircea_popescu;what of this prototype one!
1428822;1457626369;asciilifeform;it, as i said before, is our shipwreck plank.
1428823;1457626419;mircea_popescu;not in statements of fact, we're not painting a still life here. what do!
1428824;1457626455;asciilifeform;i think i explained what i personally intend to do.
1428825;1457626483;asciilifeform;how ~much~ of it i get to do before dead, i cannot now say.
1428826;1457626553;mircea_popescu;you realise what you're saying is basically, that ~you~ are taking off.
1428827;1457626596;asciilifeform;if the alternative ever consists wholly of surrender- then yes.
1428828;1457626608;mircea_popescu;sigh.
1428829;1457626620;mircea_popescu;wouldja try and engage what's actually on the table rather than what's in the noggin ?
1428830;1457626640;asciilifeform;не шагу назад (tm) (r)
1428831;1457626651;mircea_popescu;jesus shit's hard.
1428832;1457626689;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428592 << quite.
1428833;1457626689;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:28; asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing
1428834;1457626710;mircea_popescu;in general, when your preteen's sister's friends start taking an interest in your party, you're lame.
1428835;1457626738;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428590 << i know of no case where "crowdfunding" worked, in any sensible definition.
1428836;1457626738;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:00; asciilifeform: 'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade
1428837;1457626768;mircea_popescu;yes there are some cases where it has redistributed some dollars. in this sense, the numbers racket as practiced between the same poor black marginals 50 years ago also "worked".
1428838;1457626801;asciilifeform;as i said to the lsd folks, if i were free man, there would be a solid weapon in 1/2y - 1y. BUT this is a flight to alpha centauri, because i am NOT a free man.
1428839;1457626856;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the ideas of a not free man about what freedom'd do to him are null and void.
1428840;1457626859;mircea_popescu;how would you know ?
1428841;1457626883;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu , who IS free man, can sit down & write mpcoin.
1428842;1457626895;mircea_popescu;if there could be solid weapon in 1/2-1y, you would have long ago been free man. that you aren't makes the proposition rather dubious.
1428843;1457626907;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: well i know what a cage is, and that i live in one.
1428844;1457626916;asciilifeform;am posting from it now.
1428845;1457626921;mircea_popescu;ok, now know the other part of this.
1428846;1457626926;mircea_popescu;it's a whole not a half.
1428847;1457626951;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1/2 y of FULL time.
1428848;1457627008;mircea_popescu;the discussion is a whole not a half. yes we both understand one half of it. now you understand the other half of it.
1428849;1457627021;asciilifeform;but i don't have enough lsd to do that thread again.
1428850;1457627028;mircea_popescu;mkay.
1428851;1457627071;asciilifeform;but as it stands i have about 1/10th of my strength to give.
1428852;1457627086;shinohai;Here you go asciilifeform - arrange a stupid conference and charge a coupla grand to get a foldup chair in the nearest Best Western. http://www.coindesk.com/events/consensus-2016/register/
1428853;1457627087;assbot;Consensus 2016 - Register Your Ticket Today ... ( http://bit.ly/1U58F1N )
1428854;1457627091;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428609 << doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag in the ~same sense it didn't hurt to come up with a specific named rotschild, which then didn't count.
1428855;1457627091;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 13:36:51; punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.
1428856;1457627105;asciilifeform;i gave pricetag!
1428857;1457627115;asciilifeform;but what diff does it make.
1428858;1457627132;mircea_popescu;i do not trust it at all. i'm not sure you understand this, but AT ALL.
1428859;1457627145;asciilifeform;it is accurate.
1428860;1457627175;asciilifeform;price of not having to look for work for a year, hypothetically.
1428861;1457627185;mircea_popescu;it goes, for me, in the same pile as xmas cardano, phuctor two weeks ago, and wahtever the fuck her name was,
1428862;1457627186;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-08-2015#1244694
1428863;1457627186;assbot;Logged on 20-08-2015 00:01:57; asciilifeform: '�lisabeth de Rothschild (n�e de Chambure; a.k.a. Lili; March 9, 1902 - March 23, 1945) was a member by marriage of the wine-making branch of the Rothschild family.'
1428864;1457627190;asciilifeform;someone asked for this number? i gave.
1428865;1457627203;mircea_popescu;they are the things you say to protect from change, or w/e.
1428866;1457627209;mircea_popescu;sure, you gave.
1428867;1457627215;mircea_popescu;moving on.
1428868;1457627334;*;asciilifeform does not like to waste bandwidth but generally answers folks when they ask things.
1428869;1457627339;danielpbarron;what is a free man in asciilifeform terms? do I qualify by being someone who only needs to work full time for one season out of the year?
1428870;1457627380;kakobrekla;"needs to" is key here.
1428871;1457627452;mircea_popescu;i can readily see a definition of freedom as "one has enough resources to protect himself from the outside world". this definition is impractical, however, belonging to the sphere chicken world.
1428872;1457627462;mircea_popescu;but hey, as a heuristic, works fine.
1428873;1457627512;mircea_popescu;by this logic, the gardener who is free needs a garden, but the movie director who is free needs his own studio. the cost of their respective freedoms, many degrees of magnitude apart.
1428874;1457627526;asciilifeform;i dun need a studio.
1428875;1457627536;mircea_popescu;i was talking in the general!
1428876;1457627541;asciilifeform;but do need a fair bit of floor space
1428877;1457627546;asciilifeform;and quiet.
1428878;1457627556;asciilifeform;and nonrecycled food
1428879;1457627563;asciilifeform;and my library.
1428880;1457627572;asciilifeform;i think this sums it all.
1428881;1457627572;danielpbarron;what kind of floor space?
1428882;1457627590;kakobrekla;with a roof i imagine
1428883;1457627594;asciilifeform;climate-controlled.
1428884;1457627594;mircea_popescu;lol
1428885;1457627812;PeterL;asciilifeform around here you could fill you list for about 20k usd per year
1428886;1457627827;asciilifeform;no.
1428887;1457627841;PeterL;no?
1428888;1457627865;danielpbarron;and all the lead you could want!
1428889;1457627869;asciilifeform;where PeterL lives? mongolia?
1428890;1457627875;PeterL;michigan
1428891;1457627903;PeterL;only flint has lead in water, the rest of the state has great water
1428892;1457627938;asciilifeform;ick
1428893;1457627943;PeterL;rent a 1600 sqft single family home for about 1000 usd/mo
1428894;1457627956;PeterL;just saying
1428895;1457627962;asciilifeform;and eat roomtemp-stable cheese? fuck that
1428896;1457627972;PeterL;we have cheese here too
1428897;1457627999;asciilifeform;roquefort is not any cheaper in mi than md.
1428898;1457628096;PeterL;how much money do you spend on cheese a month?
1428899;1457628125;asciilifeform;discussion involving 'downshifting' is waste of my time and of everybody else's.
1428900;1457628150;PeterL;I'm not saying downshift, just get out of the land of outrageous rents!
1428901;1457628174;asciilifeform;health is still ~1k/mo.
1428902;1457628337;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> ick << what, this is an argument now ?
1428903;1457628346;mircea_popescu;uhaul will take half a btc to haul your library.
1428904;1457628362;asciilifeform;but this is not a very interesting discussion. would you have it with, e.g., your lawyer?! ask him what pieces of furniture he could do without, so as to charge less?!!
1428905;1457628381;mircea_popescu;i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.
1428906;1457628386;PeterL;<asciilifeform> health is still ~1k/mo. << you just added another thing to the list, now we are up to 32k, still nowhere near 500k
1428907;1457628388;mircea_popescu;he is a very good lawyer, and a hardworking fellow too.
1428908;1457628405;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~.
1428909;1457628421;mircea_popescu;also, health at 1k a month is RIDICULOUS. pretty much all over the world, cancer treatment runs you 1k/mo.
1428910;1457628463;asciilifeform;WORLD
1428911;1457628475;asciilifeform;i'm a subject of hitler.
1428912;1457628499;PeterL;That is about what my in-laws pay, and they are on daily medications and recovering from extensive surgery/cancer treatment
1428913;1457628526;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's an interesting datapoint, because 100 gallons of gas provide enough energy to haul 100 * 1.2 * 10^8 / 3000 = 4 tons of stuff
1428914;1457628529;mircea_popescu;3 km VERTICALLY.
1428915;1457628540;mircea_popescu;so you're on the space station now, with your 4ton, ie, 200k volume library ?
1428916;1457628550;danielpbarron;asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~. << gas was twice as expensive then as it is now
1428917;1457628575;asciilifeform;aha but i hauled 4 ton through city traffic. about same joules...
1428918;1457628601;asciilifeform;and yes, it was pre-iran
1428919;1457628719;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428905 << why not try & persuade him to move to botswana and eat some of his children so he can charge 1k.
1428920;1457628719;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.
1428921;1457628815;mircea_popescu;he is actually in one of those god forsaken places, doesn't matter which.
1428922;1457628818;mircea_popescu;where he lives, that's middle class.
1428923;1457628852;asciilifeform;so clearly mircea_popescu is paying him too much !11
1428924;1457628855;asciilifeform;if middle-class.
1428925;1457628874;mircea_popescu;not the line contemplated here.
1428926;1457628896;asciilifeform;next take your diesel generator and persuade it to run on water.
1428927;1457628905;asciilifeform;or at least see how much water it can eat..
1428928;1457628925;mircea_popescu;looky, lashing at me is not liable to do much. the point remains that this "i could do except alas" line is a total waste of time and utterly broken in so many parts it's not worth fixing.
1428929;1457628931;mircea_popescu;so can we lay it to rest and move on ?
1428930;1457628963;asciilifeform;thread was not answer to mircea_popescu, who i think gets it, but earlier folks.
1428931;1457629073;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu is entirely welcome to answer 'you SAY you could do X if you were free, but i know that you're a tard! so you could not POSSIBLY do X!11 haha' and i will be powerless to prove him wrong.
1428932;1457629144;mircea_popescu;i'm not even saying that, nor is it even needed. even if you ~could~ actually, provavly, known from my personal discussion with the all-knowing god, do it, what the fuck sort of arrangement is this, "so b-a exists so that alf can fix it" ? how is it better than you know, hiring microsoft to do it.
1428933;1457629151;mircea_popescu;if you die one day what then ? etc.
1428934;1457629160;mircea_popescu;so no, broken in too many places to be worth contemplating.
1428935;1457629178;asciilifeform;ok then birth five spare alfs if you need them for all time.
1428936;1457629196;mircea_popescu;this is what we're trying for here : a) birth alfs ; b) continuously.
1428937;1457629200;asciilifeform;or write the motherfucking code yourself, why not
1428938;1457629201;mircea_popescu;ideally they'd all be different
1428939;1457629206;asciilifeform;i'll read and test it , i promise.
1428940;1457629234;danielpbarron;how to start writing ADA on sane gentoo?
1428941;1457629244;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: if you have to ask...
1428942;1457629252;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron iirc he published a gentoo mask few days back
1428943;1457629254;asciilifeform;this is why i say that presently we have 1.
1428944;1457629260;mircea_popescu;course... meanwhile things happened, might not work anymopre.
1428945;1457629264;asciilifeform;and at some point my health will give out and we will have 0.
1428946;1457629271;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu will ahve to write code himself.
1428947;1457629281;danielpbarron;yeah the sane gentoo part i can figure out no problem. just never coded in ADA before
1428948;1457629293;mircea_popescu;there was a manual floating about, lesseee
1428949;1457629294;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: i never did either, before we began.
1428950;1457629296;mircea_popescu;!search ada manual
1428951;1457629296;assbot;6 results for 'ada manual' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manual
1428952;1457629298;danielpbarron;i have the manual even
1428953;1457629302;mircea_popescu;!s ada manul
1428954;1457629303;assbot;0 results for 'ada manul' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manul
1428955;1457629305;danielpbarron;on dead tree
1428956;1457629307;mircea_popescu;darn.
1428957;1457629312;asciilifeform;Pet The Manul. (tm) (r)
1428958;1457629314;mircea_popescu;ok so then start with the examples i guess ?
1428959;1457629393;asciilifeform;i wish this were not so, but so far afaik the set of folks who understand everything from galois theory to O(..) runtimes to sdram bus timings includes 1) mircea_popescu 2) asciilifeform .
1428960;1457629427;mircea_popescu;the world is not a picture, alf. the world is a moving thing. let people be wouldja!
1428961;1457629434;*;asciilifeform lets.
1428962;1457629452;asciilifeform;and so far we have... what we have.
1428963;1457629470;mircea_popescu;all the things that there are can in principle be understood, or as the old jew said (in fiddler on the roof) - there is a blessing for everything.
1428964;1457629495;asciilifeform;in principle.
1428965;1457629509;asciilifeform;in practice i'm stuck doing pretty much 100% of the ab-initio b-a stuff.
1428966;1457629530;asciilifeform;(YES i appreciate folks testing, cleaning up, etc. ! don't feel sad !)
1428967;1457629536;mircea_popescu;well, either that or screaming at all teh folk who try things.
1428968;1457629543;asciilifeform;and i appreciate mircea_popescu firing death rays at the enemy !
1428969;1457629560;asciilifeform;from his dirigible fleet.
1428970;1457629584;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: ever seen black book movie ? << Brittany Murphy is hot? ~_~
1428971;1457629599;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if i did not scream, we'd prolly be struggling with some 'golang' prb horror now.
1428972;1457629604;asciilifeform;or java.
1428973;1457629630;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller http://trilema.com/2016/black-book/#selection-63.45-63.87
1428974;1457629632;assbot;Black Book on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UilLYd )
1428975;1457629639;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform orly ?
1428976;1457629654;asciilifeform;i've spend my counterfactual-juice for the day
1428977;1457629658;asciilifeform;*spent
1428978;1457629662;asciilifeform;so nfi.
1428979;1457629670;asciilifeform;gotta go get moar.
1428980;1457629675;mircea_popescu;anyway, why are you so hurt by all this stuff ?
1428981;1457629708;asciilifeform;well, aside from the motherland burning and my being powerless to do anything about it on account of sitting on a sharpened telephone pole, i'm having a marvelous day !11
1428982;1457629731;thestringpuller;ah I was thinking of little black book. was thoroughly confoosed.
1428983;1457629746;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i can see that angle :)
1428984;1457629837;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller the incredible insanity of naming a girl carice. carici being one of the numerous ways you can say cunt in romanian.
1428985;1457629850;mircea_popescu;so Cunts van Houten!
1428986;1457629862;asciilifeform;hey, englishers call gurlz 'kitty'
1428987;1457629865;asciilifeform;which is not too far off.
1428988;1457629889;mircea_popescu;i guess so
1428989;1457629936;mircea_popescu;anyway, she's great in that film, warmly recommended - not just to watch, but also to get one of your own.
1428990;1457630044;asciilifeform;holy shit
1428991;1457630045;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428674 < yeah, "turning into unity" or anything alike is not happening. contrary to what alf may think, i'm not about to java-ify things.
1428992;1457630045;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 14:28:06; jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them
1428993;1457630060;asciilifeform;eerom has an an2135sc by cypress
1428994;1457630073;asciilifeform;which... is COMPATIBLE with ezusb !?!?!  >>. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428437
1428995;1457630073;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 04:16:24; assbot: Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )
1428996;1457630090;mircea_popescu;nb.
1428997;1457630090;asciilifeform;that i reversed in 2012 ?!
1428998;1457630162;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428686 << pretty much all engineering since 2014 consisted of washing that crud off.
1428999;1457630162;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 15:03:34; punkman: diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?
1429000;1457630966;*;asciilifeform could easily sanitize the thing, if .... etc.
1429001;1457630984;asciilifeform;hell, rotorize.
1429002;1457630991;asciilifeform;in fact, you don't need me for this any moar, can do yourself.
1429003;1457630996;asciilifeform;i demonstrated how.
1429004;1457630996;mircea_popescu;lol
1429005;1457631006;mircea_popescu;in other news, phuctor server paid for yet another month.
1429006;1457631018;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu . and my offer to cover it with own blood - stands.
1429007;1457631105;mircea_popescu;yaya. i'm all about to encourage ~that~ sort of insanity.
1429008;1457631121;asciilifeform;(re: earlier, i case anyone thinks that winblowz is 'too hard', i have win8 kernel drivers built with GCC and ~zero microshit code~)
1429009;1457631137;mircea_popescu;static linked ?
1429010;1457631156;asciilifeform;in the sense of not invoking dll loader at any point - YES.
1429011;1457631163;mircea_popescu;nb.
1429012;1457631232;asciilifeform;fwiw.
1429013;1457631242;asciilifeform;ditto userland.
1429014;1457631957;mircea_popescu;and in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3i8a1coqd1r7us0jo1_1280.jpg
1429015;1457631958;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5f6Su )
1429016;1457632144;asciilifeform;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << mega-commentz lulz.
1429017;1457632145;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )
1429018;1457632264;*;asciilifeform would be quite stimulated to learn who was responsible for the ~30 btc flurry of 'yes' bets in the 12 hrs or so before the game
1429019;1457632276;mircea_popescu;"No kidding. What a scam this site is. I suppose they're planning on people not really reading the FAQ. I mean it calculates the odds for you and says 1 pays 1 but that's a LIE."
1429020;1457632280;mircea_popescu;what the fuck are these idiots on about ?!
1429021;1457632301;mircea_popescu;"The fee should also probably be taken out of profit only, not the total bet."
1429022;1457632303;mircea_popescu;herp.
1429023;1457632317;asciilifeform;covered in shit from walking through heathen world, and they never wash, so still smell it
1429024;1457632318;mircea_popescu;how about the fee gets taken out of mps fortune, and losers are refunded for good measure.
1429025;1457632323;mircea_popescu;motherfucker....
1429026;1457632399;asciilifeform;much as i would like to prove some variety of shenanigans re: this bet, i cannot.
1429027;1457632522;mircea_popescu;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5794 << this ia actually a pretty intelligent comment
1429028;1457632523;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5fPD4 )
1429029;1457632570;asciilifeform;aha, linked strictly for it
1429030;1457632578;mircea_popescu;anyway, thanks god for kakobrekla's idea of implementing that calculator on site, otherwise with bets like these that draw loads of noobs (i don't mean to bitrcoin, or to betting, i mean to thinking) we'd have had degrees of magnitude more idiotic spew.
1429031;1457632732;asciilifeform;but at any rate i would not be surprised if one day i learn that lee sedol was told by a little bird that if he wins he will have an accident like go seigen in '61
1429032;1457632757;mircea_popescu;money is a better play.
1429033;1457632764;asciilifeform;(well, no, i will be surprised ~if i learn~, but not ~that it happened~)
1429034;1457632765;mircea_popescu;"win, either way, 1mn or 10, your call"
1429035;1457632772;asciilifeform;or that.
1429036;1457632799;asciilifeform;thing is, money is not much of a motivator to pro go players
1429037;1457632811;asciilifeform;they want ~to play~
1429038;1457632899;mircea_popescu;or maybe have other theorems to prove.
1429039;1457632902;asciilifeform;(and to exist in the conditions where playing is a thing, for which the money is. but the money is strictly secondary.)
1429040;1457632917;asciilifeform;very few pro go folks have other theorems, they start at 5 y.o.
1429041;1457632922;asciilifeform;think ballet.
1429042;1457632928;mircea_popescu;this is not much of a criteria.
1429043;1457632952;*;mircea_popescu spent years hunting @ballet school. they do have other theorems.
1429044;1457632977;asciilifeform;they'd better, given that they burn out at, what, 19
1429045;1457633179;mircea_popescu;anyway. konspiraci isn't, on reflection and review, much of a persuasive explanation here.
1429046;1457633191;mircea_popescu;computer plays like a shoe - true, but not just any shoe.
1429047;1457633205;mircea_popescu;the same thing exists in bridge, the stickler old lady.
1429048;1457633242;asciilifeform;bulldozer, in the end, always wins
1429049;1457633247;mircea_popescu;usually makes a 3rd to 5th in singles tourneys or else somewhere 4-10th in teams. because her quarter tricks on minor points still buy a lot.
1429050;1457633261;asciilifeform;it will still be a few yrs. before it becomes impossible to play on the net.
1429051;1457633294;asciilifeform;or so thinks my brother, who for ~20yrs has cared for very little other than go.
1429052;1457633334;asciilifeform;( he went, so to speak, perelman, some time ago. )
1429053;1457633363;mircea_popescu;tsk.
1429054;1457633367;mircea_popescu;sorry for his loss.\
1429055;1457633387;asciilifeform;eh he knew it would not live forever.
1429056;1457633390;asciilifeform;is not a fool.
1429057;1457633407;mircea_popescu;hey, is this the fellow that used to game program ?
1429058;1457633412;asciilifeform;aha
1429059;1457633416;asciilifeform;i only got 1 brother.
1429060;1457633427;mircea_popescu;well if he wqants to go perelman all over eulora... something could perhaps be arranged.
1429061;1457633433;asciilifeform;~ mircea_popescu's age.
1429062;1457633454;asciilifeform;l0l mircea_popescu thinks he could afford my brother , ahaha.
1429063;1457633472;mircea_popescu;oh, perelman takes money now ? darn, i should headhunt the original
1429064;1457633484;asciilifeform;perhaps !
1429065;1457633494;asciilifeform;maybe p even takes payment in the tree bark he eats
1429066;1457633523;asciilifeform;perhaps he'll cough up a cipher for us.
1429067;1457633530;asciilifeform;(incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)
1429068;1457633538;PeterL;did mircea_popescu mean program eulora or play eulora?
1429069;1457633555;asciilifeform;PeterL: prolly program ? i don't recall folks having to be paid to ~play~ it?
1429070;1457633618;PeterL;well, S.MG is sitting on how many thousands of btc? surely that would entice anybody if spent
1429071;1457633659;asciilifeform;PeterL: i dun think mircea_popescu believes in spending
1429072;1457633664;asciilifeform;can't blame'im either
1429073;1457633668;asciilifeform;spending suxxx.
1429074;1457633759;asciilifeform;those thousands will buy some very spiffy tshirts when btc goes to penny.
1429075;1457633803;asciilifeform;(though spending will still suck donkey balls then)
1429076;1457634274;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428607 << Been raining. Have tree down to straight 5'3" section in ground suitable for art
1429077;1457634274;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 13:30:05; shinohai: Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.
1429078;1457634283;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he was 'old-school' '90s games man, hand-optimized asm for consoles, 3d engines from scratch, that kinda thing.
1429079;1457634294;asciilifeform;now works on dour industrial control crud.
1429080;1457634299;asciilifeform;but at least doesn't ever have to leave house.
1429081;1457634457;asciilifeform;(the games industry mostly left this part of the world.)
1429082;1457634786;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i will have you know that yours is a very thin tree.
1429083;1457634794;asciilifeform;tepes would never sit a man down on such a stake.
1429084;1457634799;asciilifeform;it'd be over in minutes.
1429085;1457634844;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Yes, very thin weedy thing. But it's height had become a concern given it's proximity to the power line.
1429086;1457634862;asciilifeform;(typically, tree was chosen to be ~telephone pole wide. so that victim would have to wait 2-3 days for the bones to spread, or to die of thirst)
1429087;1457634938;asciilifeform;the stake was in ru penal code through the 18th c. so we happen to know a good bit of craft concerning how & what.
1429088;1457634978;asciilifeform;for instance, you don't want splinters on the pole, the condemned bleeds faster.
1429089;1457635048;asciilifeform;the last instance i recall of a formal sentence of impalement was, iirc, in 1740s, and it was commuted at the last minute to beheading
1429090;1457635056;asciilifeform;but historians in the audience are welcome to correct me.
1429091;1457635079;shinohai;How merciful.
1429092;1457635086;BingoBoingo;Aha! I have three trees several times too big then and none the right size. I like the big ones though. Will have to look up primary sources.
1429093;1457635221;asciilifeform;there is an excellent scene of 16 c. horse-drawn impalement in the pl film 'Ogniem i mieczem' ('with fire and sword').
1429094;1457635277;asciilifeform;four-parter, took, iirc, ~40 years to make !
1429095;1457635282;asciilifeform;longer than 'star wars.'
1429096;1457635292;asciilifeform;mega-film.
1429097;1457635891;BingoBoingo;there is also locust tree I am not candidate because it likely no longer has a solid core and will likely require its removal to be outsourced.
1429098;1457636838;jurov;mod6 ben_vulpes i have got bitcoin-foundation.info domain, should i toss it too?
1429099;1457637632;funkenstein_;<trinque> hey, regrind your vpatch and I'll sign it  <-- thanks trinque :) trouble is I'm not sure what base to regrind from
1429100;1457637757;funkenstein_;this seems an unsolved problem in how to use V and/or my broken understanding of how to use V
1429101;1457637967;danielpbarron;http://thesixthirty.com/news/chicago-cell-phone-jammer/ >> Although, if I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, how much fun would it be just to ride the L for hours on end with a case of Old Style and a cell phone jammer solely for the purpose of messing with people?
1429102;1457637969;assbot;Wanted: The Chicago Cell Phone Jammer ... ( http://bit.ly/1RC8LrJ )
1429103;1457638005;asciilifeform;rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !
1429104;1457638012;danielpbarron;^^ is now caught, 10k USD bail
1429105;1457638073;danielpbarron;isn't that another "if you have to ask" sorta things?
1429106;1457638102;asciilifeform;re: jammer: idiocy
1429107;1457638134;trinque;publish list of mega-b00ks, or go raid whichever university is still teaching math/eng re: alfs
1429108;1457638151;asciilifeform;if yer gonna jam, have 100 of'em, with solar panels, dropped by quadcopter on rooftops.
1429109;1457638162;asciilifeform;take out gsm citywide for a month.
1429110;1457638175;asciilifeform;this is kindergarten-basic.
1429111;1457638201;asciilifeform;trinque: go, raid.
1429112;1457638230;trinque;I was hoping for the reading list!
1429113;1457638256;danielpbarron;http://danielpbarron.com/ascii_book_list.txt
1429114;1457638258;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/223ti3i )
1429115;1457638295;asciilifeform;this is mebbe half a shelf.
1429116;1457638302;trinque;here's the thing
1429117;1457638324;trinque;I've heard plenty of reasonable criticism of autodidactism
1429118;1457638334;asciilifeform;i hate to disappoint folks, but i'm .. not made of book
1429119;1457638336;trinque;maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own
1429120;1457638366;asciilifeform;armies is what the other side has.
1429121;1457638373;trinque;for this very reason
1429122;1457638390;asciilifeform;all i can offer is this other kind of force.
1429123;1457638399;asciilifeform;while i have some to give.
1429124;1457638424;asciilifeform;call it what you like.
1429125;1457638515;mod6;jurov: why would you toss it?
1429126;1457638550;jurov;i forgot i registerd it and now it is expiring, asking if you want to add it
1429127;1457638626;asciilifeform;i actually understand very well why mircea_popescu does not want any of this to EVER become about armies of trainable fungible folks.
1429128;1457638647;mod6;jurov: are you using it for anything at all?
1429129;1457638659;jurov;also, just for lulz, got targeted spam - invite to bid on foundationcoin.com
1429130;1457638677;mod6;heh
1429131;1457638682;asciilifeform;he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf
1429132;1457638691;jurov;mod6 no, there was promo for .info. so i regged it and forgot
1429133;1457638703;asciilifeform;l0l autogenned spamola
1429134;1457638738;mod6;ah. i think you can let it go. we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' for at least the next 4 years iirc. (good until 2020), and im not sure about therealbitcoin.com -- i didn't register that one.
1429135;1457638808;jurov;ok
1429136;1457638818;mod6;i guess therealbitcoin.com expires on 22-10-2016
1429137;1457638824;mod6;so whomever may want to renew that one.
1429138;1457638835;jurov;it's me too, i'll keep it for ml
1429139;1457638843;mod6;sweet thank jurov
1429140;1457638854;trinque;asciilifeform: what does asking for a list of books have to do with fungible cogs
1429141;1457638866;trinque;I can see very well that you're not engaging me on the turf I proposed
1429142;1457638868;trinque;:p
1429143;1457638912;trinque;*they* made this world, and what is the proposal for the other? I suppose engineers and mathematicians will burst from the womb having spent 9 months proving theorems
1429144;1457639017;asciilifeform;trinque: i think i lost the head of the thread?
1429145;1457639021;asciilifeform;list of books for ~what~ ?
1429146;1457639233;trinque;if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.
1429147;1457639266;asciilifeform;the OLD world.
1429148;1457639295;asciilifeform;i fully expect that it will take 100+ yrs of AGGRESSIVE sanity to create the peoplecaliber of 1980 again.
1429149;1457639299;asciilifeform;and 1000 years - 1880.
1429150;1457639453;trinque;what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?
1429151;1457639457;trinque;*essence
1429152;1457639517;asciilifeform;do you recall the thread re: how people born in '90s cannot think worth half a damn ?
1429153;1457639526;asciilifeform;what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??
1429154;1457639539;funkenstein_;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 <-- one thing i've learned reading here is that this attitude leads to thermodynamic death / intellectual wasteland more quickly than i had expected
1429155;1457639539;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
1429156;1457639574;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has several useful articles re: how various unrealities will have to collapse in order for real people to be built again
1429157;1457639592;asciilifeform;but it is not clear to me that those who pick up the pieces will choose to do anything resembling civilization.
1429158;1457639603;asciilifeform;and i could not necessarily persuade them that it is a good idea.
1429159;1457639611;asciilifeform;even if i could speak to them.
1429160;1457639757;funkenstein_;asciilifeform: health is still ~1k/mo.  <--  I LOLed
1429161;1457640005;*;trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand
1429162;1457640017;asciilifeform;who said 'wait' ?
1429163;1457640018;asciilifeform;go, do !
1429164;1457640022;trinque;I suppose spartans just sorta emerged
1429165;1457640034;asciilifeform;conquer !
1429166;1457640036;trinque;fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans
1429167;1457640058;asciilifeform;fix shiva so lispimage persists !
1429168;1457640065;asciilifeform;or are you stuck in womb.
1429169;1457640154;trinque;I have trb dev time today. it does not address the point made about education and its function in a culture
1429170;1457640241;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has the canonical advice, i cannot beat it, have 1000 children, beat'em within a mm of their life, kill the dumbest 9/10th
1429171;1457640256;asciilifeform;what else to say.
1429172;1457640263;trinque;oh I don't know, learning math?
1429173;1457640267;trinque;wtf is this
1429174;1457640303;asciilifeform;teach the survivers, maths.
1429175;1457640320;asciilifeform;hell, they will learn it by themselves
1429176;1457640322;trinque;there are more books on mathematics than could ever possibly be read by one person in one lifetime
1429177;1457640323;asciilifeform;by counting yer bonez
1429178;1457640342;asciilifeform;trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.
1429179;1457640349;trinque;no shit huh?
1429180;1457640351;trinque;l0l
1429181;1457640353;asciilifeform;aha.
1429182;1457640368;asciilifeform;this is sad but true.
1429183;1457640375;trinque;this is exactly, entirely my point
1429184;1457640381;trinque;make the room!!!!111!!11!1
1429185;1457640391;funkenstein_;^
1429186;1457640392;asciilifeform;i have about 1/2 of it.
1429187;1457640497;asciilifeform;oh there is a trick
1429188;1457640508;asciilifeform;one of the items in the room is an hdd with half a TB of ru text.
1429189;1457640560;trinque;if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable
1429190;1457640569;trinque;the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls
1429191;1457640592;asciilifeform;what's the failure rate for making mircea_popescus ?
1429192;1457640603;asciilifeform;and i'm not even a mircea_popescu  !
1429193;1457640631;asciilifeform;there's at least two full platoons of asciilifeforms for every mircea_popescu .
1429194;1457640980;nubbins`;good thing
1429195;1457640987;funkenstein_;how is blustering idiocy canonical?
1429196;1457641049;nubbins`;by fiat decree
1429197;1457641079;funkenstein_;aha
1429198;1457641089;funkenstein_;i guess if it is repeated enough, it is indeed in the canon
1429199;1457641097;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: i dunno about your planet, but on mine it is state of the art.
1429200;1457641127;asciilifeform;nubbins` !
1429201;1457641131;asciilifeform;did that tx confirm yet ?!
1429202;1457641136;nubbins`;yes sir
1429203;1457641143;nubbins`;prepping the crate for airdrop today
1429204;1457641146;asciilifeform;yay!
1429205;1457641202;asciilifeform;only took 3 days for somebody to malleat it, huh.
1429206;1457641291;nubbins`;block 401820 for your records! i'd only re-checked this morning
1429207;1457641371;asciilifeform;it was still in limbo when i woke up.
1429208;1457641400;asciilifeform;i even was starting to think that i'd have to write my own malleatron.
1429209;1457641458;asciilifeform;ftr i still see the high-S thing as a deplorable compromise
1429210;1457641465;asciilifeform;it set a precedent for miner censorship.
1429211;1457641480;asciilifeform;i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.
1429212;1457641483;asciilifeform;that are VALID BITCOIN.
1429213;1457641503;PeterL;counts as a soft fork?
1429214;1457641516;asciilifeform;it emboldened the fuckers for... what we see now.
1429215;1457641703;funkenstein_;what's that?
1429216;1457641716;asciilifeform;!s a miner problem
1429217;1457641717;assbot;21 results for 'a miner problem' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+miner+problem
1429218;1457641718;funkenstein_;can you exclude me from your dinner even though I have a valid mouth?
1429219;1457641743;funkenstein_;not that again lol
1429220;1457641750;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: if miners can pick and choose who gets to use bitcoin, like you pick dinner guests, bitcoin is broken.
1429221;1457641776;funkenstein_;they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always
1429222;1457641801;asciilifeform;ants are welcome to choose which crumb on the floor to eat. BUT it had better be INCONSPICUOUS and they had BETTER stay out of the refrigerator.
1429223;1457641818;funkenstein_;unless they pay the fee ;)
1429224;1457641855;asciilifeform;the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant.
1429225;1457641898;funkenstein_;heh :)  well having to pay miners for their service hardly implies something broken to me
1429226;1457641927;asciilifeform;pay, pay.
1429227;1457641933;asciilifeform;i have nfi btw why mircea_popescu sent a 0fee.
1429228;1457641938;asciilifeform;srsly i have nfi, ask him.
1429229;1457641956;funkenstein_;whole thing is none of my business
1429230;1457641957;asciilifeform;maybe he hit the button with his elbow, what.
1429231;1457641963;asciilifeform;none of MY either.
1429232;1457641970;asciilifeform;but for some reason folks keep asking about it.
1429233;1457641982;asciilifeform;and i will say, for last time hopefully, i have nfi !11
1429234;1457642015;funkenstein_;lol anyway asciilifeform, got any comments about how you see patch order established for V users?
1429235;1457642063;asciilifeform;maybe he did it SO FOLKS WOULD ASK!111
1429236;1457642166;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: i suggested 'longest chain with sigs S1, S2, ... Sn' earlier.
1429237;1457642176;PeterL;<asciilifeform> the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant. << I dun get it, how does miners not including your txn equate to raiding the kitchen?
1429238;1457642189;asciilifeform;because the ants are not the purpose of the kitchen.
1429239;1457642194;asciilifeform;they are parasites.
1429240;1457642209;asciilifeform;and it anyone knew how to build an antproof kitchen, he ~would~.
1429241;1457642283;funkenstein_;asciilifeform, so if I would like to make/rebase a patch.. i should take the longest chain I have seen as the base of the diff?
1429242;1457642316;asciilifeform;(maybe ants are not the best example, but ~the mold on the cheese~ is. mold is necessary and useful in the RIGHT PLACES)
1429243;1457642329;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: longest chain SIGNED BY FOLKS YOU APPROVE OF
1429244;1457642386;PeterL;so if your patch is not included, you have to keep rebasing it every time a new patch is added until it does get included?
1429245;1457642398;asciilifeform;unfortunately yes.
1429246;1457642403;funkenstein_;it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order
1429247;1457642431;asciilifeform;we had a brutal but iirc conclusive thread about this
1429248;1457642450;funkenstein_;also if people don't like a patch SN which you have in the base, they will not get to use your patch
1429249;1457642578;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411334 << thread.
1429250;1457642578;assbot;Logged on 20-02-2016 23:42:04; mircea_popescu: you don't "release" a patch.
1429251;1457642614;asciilifeform;where mircea_popescu argues that there being ~any such thing~ as a shared-by-all checkpoint is a Bad Thing
1429252;1457642619;asciilifeform;and leads to prb.
1429253;1457642715;funkenstein_;this implies there is also no "included"
1429254;1457642728;asciilifeform;yes.
1429255;1457642734;asciilifeform;theer  is only 'included by YOU'
1429256;1457642740;asciilifeform;in YOUR tree
1429257;1457642746;asciilifeform;which others can CHOOSE to pollinate from.
1429258;1457642758;asciilifeform;this is key.
1429259;1457642760;funkenstein_;aha
1429260;1457642777;funkenstein_;so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree
1429261;1457642791;asciilifeform;it took me a week of ??? and radiating high-energy frustratrons at mircea_popescu to fully grasp this point.
1429262;1457642848;asciilifeform;also 'regrind' is familiar in the heathen world under the name 'merge'
1429263;1457642855;asciilifeform;we have NO auto-merge for a REASON.
1429264;1457642855;PeterL;funkenstein_ or do you just have to ask which keys are in his wot, and you can generate a tree from there?
1429265;1457642869;trinque;funkenstein_: it makes more sense for you to make your own decisions about which patches you like, and if I don't like it I'm free to alter your patch to suit me
1429266;1457642870;asciilifeform;ideally you would never have to transmit whole tree, right
1429267;1457642878;asciilifeform;trinque has it.
1429268;1457642917;funkenstein_;ok thanks for walking me through it
1429269;1457643182;thestringpuller;PeterL: being a chemist what was the formative era when alchemy became chemistry?
1429270;1457643330;funkenstein_;R. Boyle's name comes up often in this context
1429271;1457643372;asciilifeform;http://www.wptz.com/politics/first-on-cnn-us-plans-to-publicly-blame-iran-for-dam-cyber-breach/38444226 << in other lulz.
1429272;1457643374;assbot;First on CNN: U.S. plans to publicly blame Iran for dam cyber breach | Politics  - WPTZ Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uj1jqm )
1429273;1457643382;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?
1429274;1457643407;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Was looking at that actually, may make the cut.
1429275;1457643411;*;asciilifeform bbl
1429276;1457643496;funkenstein_;thestringpuller, imho as long as grant-writers pull the wool over the eyes of the grantors, alchemy continues
1429277;1457643655;shinohai;Funny I was looking at that same article before gf came over.
1429278;1457643693;thestringpuller;modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry
1429279;1457643745;thestringpuller;I agree we should stop playing fast and loose with the scientific method tho...
1429280;1457643834;funkenstein_;well if you can get a grant from the king to do real chemistry by suggesting there might be immortality in it, why not?
1429281;1457643972;thestringpuller;i don't think there are any grants for turning led into gold
1429282;1457643986;thestringpuller;and we're well aware the atomic difference in the two...
1429283;1457644044;funkenstein_;aha but micro-black holes, big bang cosmology, "the singularity", etc.
1429284;1457644075;thestringpuller;"there will always be mysticism, just in another form"
1429285;1457644083;funkenstein_;there you go :)
1429286;1457644090;thestringpuller;but that's just congealing knowledge from alchemy to chemistry :P
1429287;1457644127;thestringpuller;i'm more specifically pointing out formative moments like in 2001 when the monkeys encounter the monolith
1429288;1457644189;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: my billz are 100% paid by 'alchemy'.
1429289;1457644199;asciilifeform;like, e.g., kepler's.
1429290;1457644209;asciilifeform;(well, he had astrology, same diff.)
1429291;1457644241;thestringpuller;what is computer alchemy?
1429292;1457644248;thestringpuller;trying to discover how to break sha-2?
1429293;1457644265;funkenstein_;windows security?
1429294;1457644293;asciilifeform;more prosaic
1429295;1457644301;shinohai;I wasn't aware you could use "Windows" and "Security" in same expression?
1429296;1457644303;asciilifeform;modern alchemists are 'clever' and try to claim small things.
1429297;1457644325;asciilifeform;not gold, copper.
1429298;1457644332;thestringpuller;I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years.
1429299;1457644334;asciilifeform;not immortality - live extra day.
1429300;1457644339;asciilifeform;etc.
1429301;1457644344;asciilifeform;same rubbish, but 'modest'.
1429302;1457644350;thestringpuller;I dunno how all these people get malware in windows.
1429303;1457644384;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: typically browser 'driveby'.
1429304;1457644392;asciilifeform;secondarily - via warez.
1429305;1457644430;thestringpuller;I guess using my machine for single purpose- Netflix and Steam, has limited risk.
1429306;1457644444;thestringpuller;would never use windows machine for exploring the jungle
1429307;1457644450;funkenstein_;http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-believe-i-shall-destroy-the-stock-market-again-16327
1429308;1457644452;assbot;I Believe I Shall Destroy The Stock Market Again - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xg36LW )
1429309;1457644459;thestringpuller;you'll come home with ticks leeches and tapeworms
1429310;1457644492;asciilifeform;i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade.
1429311;1457644531;thestringpuller;impressive
1429312;1457644743;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429067 << nope.
1429313;1457644743;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 18:12:10; asciilifeform: (incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)
1429314;1457645038;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429103 << well, that's why people are saving, learning romanian, reading up on old theory of law and commercial practice arcana and so on, neh ?
1429315;1457645038;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:26:45; asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !
1429316;1457645054;mircea_popescu;jic.
1429317;1457645125;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai".
1429318;1457645125;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own
1429319;1457645128;mircea_popescu;!s momotaro
1429320;1457645129;assbot;1 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro
1429321;1457645343;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429131 << more complicated than that (for instance - i engage enemy on his strong turf all the time, i just don't engage it on its ~chosen~ turf except for final battle), but in principle sure.
1429322;1457645343;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:38:02; asciilifeform: he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf
1429323;1457645424;asciilifeform;i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.
1429324;1457645429;asciilifeform;(per momotaro.)
1429325;1457645442;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429146 << this is not necessarily unworkable - for a long time humans kept domesticated animals but didn't breed them in captivity - merely captured more. yet otherwise, sure.
1429326;1457645442;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:47:13; trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.
1429327;1457645449;PeterL;thestringpuller I am not really strong on history, I would say 1800s, peer reviewed journals became a thing
1429328;1457645475;mircea_popescu;PeterL "peer reviewed journals" became a thing in 1950s, together with state-funded science.
1429329;1457645478;asciilifeform;and monasteries certainly did not ~breed~ thinkers
1429330;1457645489;mircea_popescu;they were trying to emulate the previous functioning of actual science, which was very much b-a.
1429331;1457645505;asciilifeform;aha, royal society, etc.
1429332;1457645532;asciilifeform;everyone knows the story of harrison, the watchmaker ?
1429333;1457645542;BingoBoingo;aha
1429334;1457645543;asciilifeform;the one who eventually - in his 80s - awarded longitude prize
1429335;1457645556;asciilifeform;was rebuffed by royal society for ~decades~ because... not in wot.
1429336;1457645559;mircea_popescu;!s story of harrison, the watchmaker
1429337;1457645560;assbot;0 results for 'story of harrison, the watchmaker' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=story+of+harrison%2C+the+watchmaker
1429338;1457645560;asciilifeform;it cuts both ways.
1429339;1457645568;mircea_popescu;log can take one of everything.
1429340;1457645580;asciilifeform;!s longitude
1429341;1457645580;assbot;7 results for 'longitude' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=longitude
1429342;1457645611;asciilifeform;http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/08/article-2034658-0DC6E85C00000578-158_634x628.jpg
1429343;1457645614;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj6iMq )
1429344;1457645618;PeterL;<thestringpuller> I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years << I havn't had to reinstall the OS on my mac in 9 years, it mostly sorta still works
1429345;1457645624;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429150 << not giving a shit, for instance, in incredible short supply.
1429346;1457645624;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:50:53; trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?
1429347;1457645626;asciilifeform;^ his prototype
1429348;1457645627;asciilifeform;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Harrison's_Chronometer_H5.JPG
1429349;1457645628;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj6jQq )
1429350;1457645630;asciilifeform;^ his final one.
1429351;1457645695;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429153 << amusingly enough, it's historically how it works.
1429352;1457645695;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:52:06; asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??
1429353;1457645700;PeterL;<asciilifeform> i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade. << my previous job we had a windows 98 box dedicated to a piece of equipment
1429354;1457645719;asciilifeform;PeterL: was it a mass spec ?
1429355;1457645727;mircea_popescu;lol! how did you know.
1429356;1457645728;PeterL;no, NIR
1429357;1457645731;asciilifeform;ah!
1429358;1457645735;mircea_popescu;oh.
1429359;1457645737;asciilifeform;we had both, and yes win98
1429360;1457645768;PeterL;If it still works, why upgrade?
1429361;1457645792;asciilifeform;mass spec is the worst, came with isa card
1429362;1457645796;asciilifeform;no upgrade, ever.
1429363;1457645847;asciilifeform;incidentally, ~no lab ever hires a reverser to build a new interface.
1429364;1457645852;asciilifeform;because how do you budget for that.
1429365;1457645865;asciilifeform;$MAXINT for rusty iron, but not a penny for hiring folks
1429366;1457645878;PeterL;<mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage
1429367;1457645878;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own
1429368;1457645881;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429161 << this is actually a very juvenal-ish image. yet i don't recall it as a thing.
1429369;1457645881;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:05; *: trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand
1429370;1457645915;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> because how do you budget for that. << i have no idea wqhat the because would be, other than idiots. if i ran the lab i would, simply on grounds of independence.
1429371;1457645935;mircea_popescu;and of course i'd prolly have a wailing chorus of stakeholder idiots, whom i'd tell the usual get fucked.
1429372;1457645955;mircea_popescu;PeterL i only do what with women of a certain age.
1429373;1457646024;deedbot-;[Qntra] US May Accuse Iran Of Office Computer Infection - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-may-accuse-iran-of-office-computer-infection/
1429374;1457646062;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429166 << the spartans "emerged" out of a well understood, well documented process modern man prefers to think never existed. specifically : the woman's job to push them out ; the man's job to decide which may live. and runts - off to the apothetae.
1429375;1457646062;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:36; trinque: fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans
1429376;1457646092;PeterL;asciilifeform my current lab goes the direction of paying for "service contract" with equipment manufacturers to keep our software up-to-date
1429377;1457646107;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i only ever worked in godforsaken usg labs.
1429378;1457646129;mircea_popescu;PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ?
1429379;1457646137;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429366 << Actually leads to pederasty. Anyways the Jedi thing was invented by the George Lucas hamplanet.
1429380;1457646137;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 21:37:58; PeterL: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage
1429381;1457646165;mircea_popescu;let me guess, "nobody could have foreseen - no one got fired for following the herd".
1429382;1457646190;asciilifeform;and anyway there's ~6 people you can hire to do the isa card.
1429383;1457646193;PeterL;the equipment does what we want it to, what more do we need?
1429384;1457646195;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform is one... )
1429385;1457646221;mircea_popescu;PeterL i tohuhgt you were scientists ? "this experiment came out right - what more ?"
1429386;1457646232;mircea_popescu;uh i dunno...
1429387;1457646237;mircea_popescu;!s negative vs positive functioning
1429388;1457646238;assbot;0 results for 'negative vs positive functioning' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=negative+vs+positive+functioning
1429389;1457646257;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1425915 < that.
1429390;1457646257;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:26:24; assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.
1429391;1457646324;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429178 << he's asking you for the index list of that room ; you're not providing it because ?
1429392;1457646324;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:05:42; asciilifeform: trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.
1429393;1457646380;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429189 << cunt runs on perl, it is what it is, it does what it does. 90% failue rate may well be very self-flattering if the criteria discussed are contemplated seriously.
1429394;1457646380;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:20; trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable
1429395;1457646418;mircea_popescu;10% failure rate is based on the concept that a)most will be artisans, ie, gardeners and b) periodic war and disease anyway.
1429396;1457646513;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429190 << this is sadly not much more than a restatement of the independent vertical credo, "where do i get just the facts". bear in mind that this vertical is a creation of the usg agitprop machine and nothing more.
1429397;1457646513;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:29; trinque: the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls
1429398;1457646590;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the books are the EASY PART
1429399;1457646595;asciilifeform;and i listed many of them here.
1429400;1457646599;asciilifeform;over past years.
1429401;1457646611;asciilifeform;go and make a set of ~eyes~ for the books to be read by.
1429402;1457646622;mircea_popescu;being an us style "independent" has about as much to do with independence as being a us style "liberal" has to do with liberalism ; or as much as the 6th grader's idea of "a lothario" has to do with fucking, partying and generally the dyonyssian world.
1429403;1457646625;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2013/queers/#selection-55.0-55.24 < reference there.
1429404;1457646626;assbot;Queers on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj7Ype )
1429405;1457646634;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "many of them" != "here's list"
1429406;1457646717;PeterL;<mircea_popescu> PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ? << If the equipment does not work the way it is supposed to, we speak to our contact and he fixes it, I don't see any abdication of job by manager here?
1429407;1457646737;mircea_popescu;really ?
1429408;1457646742;asciilifeform;my list is not complete until i'm dead...
1429409;1457646745;asciilifeform;take naggum's list.
1429410;1457646748;asciilifeform;it is in the logz even.
1429411;1457646748;mircea_popescu;suppose you get married, and if you or wife need anty money, you go ask your dad.
1429412;1457646759;mircea_popescu;this doesn't abdicate your role, and she would be wise to mary you in this arrangement, yes ?
1429413;1457646853;PeterL;well, the company can pay me to figure out how to program it or pay the guy who built it to program it, it is just cheaper/faster for them to do it
1429414;1457646870;mircea_popescu;(note that this is quite how it worked, for poor people in rural, feudal settings. recommended reading : http://trilema.com/2012/la-terra-trema/ )
1429415;1457646871;assbot;La Terra Trema on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8pjm )
1429416;1457646890;mircea_popescu;PeterL and it'd be cheaper/faster (== easier) for your dad to pay.
1429417;1457646920;mircea_popescu;a discussion of whether x is an abdication or not can not be decided on the basis of "is it cheaper or faster". because of fucking course it would be, that's what abdication means.
1429418;1457646922;mircea_popescu;you give up.
1429419;1457646939;PeterL;do you fix your pipes yourself or do you hire a plumber?
1429420;1457646971;PeterL;is hiring a plumber an abdication of duty?
1429421;1457646976;mircea_popescu;and let's relate here the immorality of capital, as per http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/#footnote_7_65336
1429422;1457646977;assbot;Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8ALv )
1429423;1457646988;mircea_popescu;PeterL i only hire plumbers because i know how to fix my pipes.
1429424;1457646996;mircea_popescu;i would not hire, eg, "apple laptop fixer".
1429425;1457647029;mircea_popescu;and i have not to date hired anyone to do anything whatsoever i don't know how to do myself. how would i pay them ?
1429426;1457647049;mircea_popescu;(and yes that means i can read my own fucking x rays, and say to the doctor what he says back to me.)
1429427;1457647091;PeterL;and you program your own OS from scratch?
1429428;1457647103;mircea_popescu;no, which is why i don't hire osen.
1429429;1457647110;mircea_popescu;i... don't know how to pay.
1429430;1457647121;PeterL;but you use an OS written by somebody
1429431;1457647130;mircea_popescu;so i do.
1429432;1457647149;PeterL;so wtf is even your point?
1429433;1457647159;mircea_popescu;you think that was a counterargument somehow ?!
1429434;1457647181;mircea_popescu;i also use women i didn't make myself...
1429435;1457647184;PeterL;I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to argue here?
1429436;1457647205;mircea_popescu;well, i dun know how it'd be otherwise said, so i guess we let it lay ?
1429437;1457647269;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429211 << it is very difficult to get around this in bitcoin as-is.
1429438;1457647269;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:24:40; asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.
1429439;1457647297;asciilifeform;quite impossible, actually, afaik.
1429440;1457647311;PeterL;other than running your own mining pool
1429441;1457647318;asciilifeform;PeterL: they can collude to kill you
1429442;1457647326;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429221 << the "all data used to eval a tx is found in that tx" point is paramount and controlling here as there. no, they don't "pick and choose".
1429443;1457647326;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:29:36; funkenstein_: they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always
1429444;1457647335;PeterL;with >50% if nobody else likes you
1429445;1457647351;mircea_popescu;PeterL yes, i'm aware that if we felt like it, we could just buy visa hurr durr.
1429446;1457647357;mircea_popescu;what's any of that to do with bitcoin.
1429447;1457647372;asciilifeform;^
1429448;1457647380;PeterL;as mircea_popescu always says, "don't be poor"
1429449;1457647384;asciilifeform;there must not BE a 'blackhole tx' button.
1429450;1457647385;asciilifeform;anywhere.
1429451;1457647391;mircea_popescu;that doesn't relate here.
1429452;1457647476;mircea_popescu;"how to fly!" "don't be poor" < works. "how to cold fusion" "Don't be poor" < fails. what'd money do ?
1429453;1457647581;mircea_popescu;incidentally, maybe i have a better approach re the other thread. do you suppose PeterL that if you had to take a job with one of two labs, absolutely the same offer in every respect, you'd take the job with the lab that rents space in random buildings or with the lab that owns its own building ?
1429454;1457647612;PeterL;I guess I would say the one that owns a building
1429455;1457647632;mircea_popescu;by the same measure, i'd prefer the lab that owns its machinery rather than borrow it from unknown people in unspecifiable conditions.
1429456;1457647645;mircea_popescu;just moreso, because machinery > real estate ever since the industrial revolution.
1429457;1457647678;PeterL;Okay .... I don't know where you got the idea any equipment borrowing is going on here?
1429458;1457647684;mircea_popescu;hahaha. what ?
1429459;1457647730;mircea_popescu;a girl i own, i can order to plug into whatever cock i choose. a girl you borrow from her parents - only with prior written permission from owner.
1429460;1457647770;mircea_popescu;which i suppose is as good an explanation as any as to why i don't marry : i own my equipment.
1429461;1457647787;PeterL;we get the equipment, we have the manufacturers give us software to run it, then we get to do whatever we want with it
1429462;1457647798;mircea_popescu;except not use win98 station ?
1429463;1457647836;asciilifeform;btw i once spent year+ reversing (successfully) an instrument.
1429464;1457647840;asciilifeform;de-winblowzated it.
1429465;1457647845;asciilifeform;story is in the logz.
1429466;1457647846;asciilifeform;!s tecan
1429467;1457647846;assbot;10 results for 'tecan' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tecan
1429468;1457647855;PeterL;ah, if we want to run on win98 station we would have to make driver ourself, but why would we want that?
1429469;1457647861;asciilifeform;but i was not ~hired to do this~, but for something else, i did it as an extra thing
1429470;1457647878;mircea_popescu;PeterL i thought you did run it on windows.
1429471;1457647884;mircea_popescu;could you have run it on an actual os ?
1429472;1457647889;asciilifeform;and, INTERESTINGLY, i owned the copyright, and then spun off the thing as product, and NO ONE BOUGHT
1429473;1457647904;PeterL;well, sure, but newer winblowz than 98
1429474;1457647909;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how many of those things in production ? 100s ?
1429475;1457647911;asciilifeform;because 'eh it runs anyway, so what if a postdoc has to babysit it'
1429476;1457647918;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 20,000+
1429477;1457647921;mircea_popescu;sad huh.
1429478;1457647924;asciilifeform;aha.
1429479;1457647931;mircea_popescu;this sort of thing readily informs me as to your views re, say, 0day mkt.
1429480;1457647936;asciilifeform;yes.
1429481;1457647944;PeterL;some equipment is non-widows, like the NMR
1429482;1457647947;asciilifeform;http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html << mandatory spam
1429483;1457647949;assbot;MolBox LLC ... ( http://bit.ly/1pjarQC )
1429484;1457647958;asciilifeform;~still~ for sale...
1429485;1457647984;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in the sad truth of the matter dept, this is kinda why the closed box crud even exists, that's the vp : "by the time someone undoes the shit, it'll be too late for the world to care"
1429486;1457647984;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: believe or not, when this was new, i even blew a few hundy on... google ads
1429487;1457648001;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i believe it. "advertising" works as well as make-up.
1429488;1457648002;asciilifeform;we even got a call with the hw vendor
1429489;1457648010;asciilifeform;no shit, the swiss
1429490;1457648015;mircea_popescu;and ?
1429491;1457648029;asciilifeform;they hungy up once i explained that 'no this is not a winblows app, it is not a plugin for yours, it replaces 'evoware' '
1429492;1457648043;mircea_popescu;PeterL it's just miserable management, whether you see it or not.
1429493;1457648068;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: story is in the logz iirc.
1429494;1457648073;PeterL;I guess I don't see what you would do instead?
1429495;1457648136;mircea_popescu;only buy open hardware. if hardware is considered for buying, add the cost of reversing and opening it to the bill, to make a proper comparison.
1429496;1457648159;mircea_popescu;ie, the win98 item is 100k in cash + 4,5mn in fixing it to spec ; this is 340k in cash + 0 etc.
1429497;1457648163;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there is NO open lab automation sys.
1429498;1457648169;asciilifeform;NO open spectrophotometer.
1429499;1457648172;asciilifeform;NO open mass spec.
1429500;1457648174;asciilifeform;NO open gc.
1429501;1457648175;asciilifeform;etc.
1429502;1457648175;asciilifeform;etc.
1429503;1457648177;mircea_popescu;mostly because of abdication discussed above.
1429504;1457648184;asciilifeform;well no shit!
1429505;1457648186;mircea_popescu;there is also no us research worth the mention.
1429506;1457648194;PeterL;asciilifeform has it, there is no open lab equipment or software
1429507;1457648196;asciilifeform;NO open chinese or russian either
1429508;1457648199;asciilifeform;or brazilian or wtf
1429509;1457648201;asciilifeform;NONE
1429510;1457648204;mircea_popescu;because closed is always a competition of empires, and the chinese got 10x more cash.
1429511;1457648218;asciilifeform;aha and their idiot crud runs for winblowz.
1429512;1457648229;mircea_popescu;what do they care.
1429513;1457648240;PeterL;except NMR
1429514;1457648246;asciilifeform;and, notably, my phone does NOT ring with folks asking for reversed hw.
1429515;1457648285;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429246 << epic :D
1429516;1457648285;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:40:03; funkenstein_: it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order
1429517;1457648298;mircea_popescu;"this decentralized paradigm is great, now can we make it centralized again plox"
1429518;1457648332;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: notably, my tecan proggy allows user to use non-branded furniture in the machine.
1429519;1457648339;asciilifeform;one would THINK this would make a diff to someone !>?
1429520;1457648340;asciilifeform;but no.
1429521;1457648345;mircea_popescu;heh.
1429522;1457648367;mircea_popescu;wgat is this tecan ting anyway ?
1429523;1457648382;asciilifeform;robot.
1429524;1457648384;asciilifeform;see my film.
1429525;1457648389;asciilifeform;(linked)
1429526;1457648400;asciilifeform;narrated, even, by yers truly
1429527;1457648408;asciilifeform;long ago.
1429528;1457648424;mircea_popescu;molbox labminion hehe cute
1429529;1457648438;asciilifeform;0 sales.
1429530;1457648464;asciilifeform;so what if the thing let me use a 5k usd spectrophotometre instead of 50k golden toilet that has FEWER wavelengths ?!
1429531;1457648467;asciilifeform;no one gave a shit.
1429532;1457648469;asciilifeform;or half a shit.
1429533;1457648485;mircea_popescu;quite problematic huh.
1429534;1457648495;asciilifeform;not china, not north kr, not fuucking antarktica
1429535;1457648504;asciilifeform;crickets.
1429536;1457648506;mircea_popescu;i mean, this would be the exact textbook example of "work really hard, do something useful, be rich"
1429537;1457648521;mircea_popescu;except by now the shitworld is so thick with shit, it "only works" for approved lottery winner.
1429538;1457648525;asciilifeform;100% lisp btw.
1429539;1457648533;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu has it.
1429540;1457648570;mircea_popescu;"be less poor" suddenly a lot bitter than previously contemplated, huh ?
1429541;1457648576;asciilifeform;i busted arse to make that thing. and afaik nothing like it exists to this day.
1429542;1457648581;*;trinque takes off his hat
1429543;1457648582;asciilifeform;aha.
1429544;1457648598;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if it makes you feel better, i'd buy it for the putative chemistry lab i don't run.
1429545;1457648603;asciilifeform;l0lk
1429546;1457648612;BingoBoingo;!b 2
1429547;1457648613;assbot;Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0S4NDZ2.txt )
1429548;1457648631;mircea_popescu;anyway. i'm sorry.
1429549;1457648651;asciilifeform;applicable to other industrial uses incidentally
1429550;1457648654;asciilifeform;e.g., production line
1429551;1457648664;asciilifeform;anywhere there is moving gizmos.
1429552;1457648684;asciilifeform;anywy this was long ago and now mircea_popescu knows some of the perspective it gave.
1429553;1457648719;mircea_popescu;well guaranteedly you can't make any mircea_popescu 's thus, they'd simply burn down your world.
1429554;1457648732;mircea_popescu;cheap way to make high iq arsonists i guess.
1429555;1457648735;asciilifeform;aha.
1429556;1457648737;asciilifeform;which is what i am.
1429557;1457648770;mircea_popescu;my experience, on the contrary - whenever mp as much as vaguely disliked a world, that world caught on fire by itself and cut off its own head.
1429558;1457648790;asciilifeform;what can i say , mircea_popescu is better arsonist than i
1429559;1457648808;asciilifeform;i came here to learn from him !
1429560;1457648818;mircea_popescu;how;s that coming along ?
1429561;1457648821;deedbot-;[Qntra] Microsoft Bundles Adware With Security Update - http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-bundles-adware-with-security-update/
1429562;1457648833;asciilifeform;methinks i am learning.
1429563;1457648840;mircea_popescu;well then i'm glad to hear.
1429564;1457648931;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429260 << this is actually quite reasonable. trinque : please rebase ? funenstein_ sure, which tree is yours ?
1429565;1457648931;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 20:46:17; funkenstein_: so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree
1429566;1457648936;mircea_popescu;quite how this'd work in sanity.
1429567;1457648955;mircea_popescu;(well really, it'd be more like "i'd like your x rebased for my tree, here it is, you see problem ?", but w/e)
1429568;1457648957;PeterL;asciilifeform this robot thing looks much like what I saw at Dow, I never used it but I had coworkers who used these things for high-throughput research, I dunno what software they used
1429569;1457648972;asciilifeform;now iam remembering things about lm, i had many nice things, had motion planning, could run the thing 10-20x faster thaan 'evoware' (we called it 'evilware') because mine was ~guaranteed~ not to crash, etc.
1429570;1457648985;asciilifeform;PeterL: everyone uses the thing that comes with the instrument.
1429571;1457648990;asciilifeform;because the alternative is the one discussed.
1429572;1457648998;mircea_popescu;you know, you two could perhaps help each other ?
1429573;1457649009;PeterL;yeah, prolly something winblows
1429574;1457649027;mircea_popescu;PeterL get him in room to pitch his thing, make 15% or w/e ? asciilifeform you should prolly hire someone to make the pitch tho.
1429575;1457649055;asciilifeform;sad thing is that i can't easily demo. my outfit never afforded own tecan.
1429576;1457649065;asciilifeform;when the lab closed, we lost access to the thing.
1429577;1457649081;mircea_popescu;a problem, perhaps not insurmountable.
1429578;1457649084;PeterL;mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is going to reverse engineer an LC-MS? and what, we get better performance out of it or something?
1429579;1457649087;asciilifeform;tried 4, 5 times to buy a used one.
1429580;1457649092;asciilifeform;fell through each time.
1429581;1457649092;mircea_popescu;can you cleanly hook it up to an existing unit ?
1429582;1457649101;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: every unit is slightly different.
1429583;1457649107;mircea_popescu;PeterL well he did make the 10-20x faster claim ?
1429584;1457649122;mircea_popescu;seems to me a 50% speed gain in high thoroughput research would be worth money.
1429585;1457649122;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is specifically for robot arms
1429586;1457649131;asciilifeform;could not, naturally, make this claim for an ms !
1429587;1457649153;asciilifeform;see, mircea_popescu, simply NOT USING WINBLOWZ is a guaranteed gain in ANY conveyor!
1429588;1457649157;asciilifeform;but do you see folks doing it ?
1429589;1457649162;asciilifeform;skip the ransomware, the usgola, etc.
1429590;1457649164;PeterL;that was at *previous* job
1429591;1457649165;asciilifeform;but anyone does ?
1429592;1457649166;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't see folks PITCHED it either.
1429593;1457649172;asciilifeform;fwiw i pitched.
1429594;1457649180;mircea_popescu;to whom ? how did it go ?
1429595;1457649186;asciilifeform;to 5-6 labs
1429596;1457649195;asciilifeform;it all ended with crickets chirping
1429597;1457649206;mircea_popescu;did you try to close yourself ?
1429598;1457649212;asciilifeform;what's that mean
1429599;1457649230;mircea_popescu;when you say "we did pitch" do you mean, you went into the room, or did you hire someone who does this professionally ?
1429600;1457649245;asciilifeform;we hired nobody, had no money.
1429601;1457649259;asciilifeform;tried to get vc even, also silence
1429602;1457649262;mircea_popescu;while i am not actually saying "well that's why", do bear in mind you're a miserable closer.
1429603;1457649285;asciilifeform;my partner is not nearly as inept as i
1429604;1457649298;mircea_popescu;ah so partner pitched ?
1429605;1457649299;asciilifeform;(ph.d. in his 60s)
1429606;1457649312;asciilifeform;together, we pitched.
1429607;1457649317;mircea_popescu;you have to understand, this is an actual job, exactly as respectable as whore.
1429608;1457649325;asciilifeform;yes.
1429609;1457649332;mircea_popescu;you wouldn't expect to come out of your bosses' cake, on a day's notice, would you.
1429610;1457649332;asciilifeform;fwiw he was well placed in biochem wot
1429611;1457649337;mircea_popescu;at least not to any positive response.
1429612;1457649342;asciilifeform;and many many folks begged management to buy our thing
1429613;1457649347;asciilifeform;but always same reply.
1429614;1457649348;mircea_popescu;hm.
1429615;1457649403;mircea_popescu;same reply being ?
1429616;1457649427;asciilifeform;'fuckoff'
1429617;1457649432;mircea_popescu;wow they say that ?!
1429618;1457649437;asciilifeform;it is also possible that folks were afraid of voided warranties
1429619;1457649450;asciilifeform;the instruments typically come with service contract, $xx,xxx/y
1429620;1457649474;asciilifeform;the vendor cannot in most jurisdictions entirely forbid the use of 3rd party soft, but can make life harder for the user.
1429621;1457649482;mircea_popescu;funny that you didn't even have to be sued by tecan.
1429622;1457649485;asciilifeform;aha!
1429623;1457649490;asciilifeform;i was half-convinced they would!
1429624;1457649494;mircea_popescu;my previous idea of "normally this is how this sort of thing gets killed"
1429625;1457649503;asciilifeform;but tecan - cleverly - understood that they do not NEED to buy OR sue
1429626;1457649508;asciilifeform;that we would wither away naturally.
1429627;1457649518;mircea_popescu;and that understanding is necessarily not deductive.
1429628;1457649542;asciilifeform;aha, possibly they made some calls somewhere.
1429629;1457649546;asciilifeform;i had and still have nfi.
1429630;1457649597;asciilifeform;note that we were never able to get capital to even get a demo machine.
1429631;1457649604;asciilifeform;much less sell the whole orchestra in kit.
1429632;1457649610;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429278 << what's your idea of that lens ?
1429633;1457649610;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 21:01:33; thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry
1429634;1457649647;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform for my own curiosity, was this ever on, say, slashdot ?
1429635;1457649676;asciilifeform;nope.
1429636;1457649684;asciilifeform;why would it.
1429637;1457649699;mircea_popescu;it's a good story.
1429638;1457649699;asciilifeform;iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw
1429639;1457649709;mircea_popescu;"here's how we tried - and failed - to do somerthing useful"
1429640;1457649770;*;BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem
1429641;1457649843;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did not want to put a final gravestone on it.
1429642;1457649877;asciilifeform;i do ~not~ think the matter was of insufficient propaganda.
1429643;1457649888;asciilifeform;the matter is that the buyers for this thing simply do not exist !
1429644;1457649899;mircea_popescu;"putting final gravestone" and writing the above story are not the same.
1429645;1457649903;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw << FWIW, after sporatic success it has taken about "3 ani experienta" before I got rather reliable results infultrating the various web traffic concentrators to gather eyes.
1429646;1457649968;asciilifeform;the other sad thing is that we do not have the capital.
1429647;1457649979;asciilifeform;for one thing, deployment would require ~month+ of my full time at the site.
1429648;1457649987;mircea_popescu;that bad ?
1429649;1457649988;asciilifeform;to fit the thing to the instruments in question.
1429650;1457649989;asciilifeform;aha.
1429651;1457650000;asciilifeform;this is not a mcdonalds deep fryer.
1429652;1457650009;asciilifeform;this is a every-$500K-box-is-unique thing.
1429653;1457650009;mircea_popescu;maybe the economics are just not there, let's try and quantify this.
1429654;1457650017;mircea_popescu;so, what's the list value of the item in question ?
1429655;1457650034;asciilifeform;'evo' sold, in those days at least, for 250-500k depending on dealer options.
1429656;1457650047;asciilifeform;support - again somewhere north of, iirc, 50k/y
1429657;1457650062;mircea_popescu;ok. say 300k, +50k/y contract.
1429658;1457650073;asciilifeform;this was for the naked instrument.
1429659;1457650077;asciilifeform;straight from the swiss.
1429660;1457650084;mircea_popescu;now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?
1429661;1457650102;asciilifeform;case by case.
1429662;1457650109;mircea_popescu;i need a number.
1429663;1457650138;asciilifeform;very difficult to quantify. depends on what they paid their babysitter for the cruddy winblowz thing, how much money they lost to destroyed work on account of microshit.
1429664;1457650141;asciilifeform;how do i quantify this?!
1429665;1457650159;mircea_popescu;i have no idea, but that doesn't mean it's not your job to.
1429666;1457650177;mircea_popescu;did you ever run a typical case ?
1429667;1457650189;asciilifeform;there isa typical case??!!!
1429668;1457650203;mircea_popescu;looky : a "typical case" is a convention, allowing management to make judgements.
1429669;1457650225;asciilifeform;this is a every-lab-is-entirely-different sort of thing, afaik.
1429670;1457650231;mircea_popescu;it is, much like the "average voter", "median consumer" etc, a fiction, made by some methods.
1429671;1457650232;asciilifeform;we had 3 just in the building where i worked !
1429672;1457650237;asciilifeform;and all were entirely diff
1429673;1457650244;asciilifeform;in terms of workflow
1429674;1457650244;mircea_popescu;i don't care how fucking different they are. typical case will be had or the sky falls.
1429675;1457650266;asciilifeform;i went out and did intelligence
1429676;1457650274;mircea_popescu;anyway, if you don't have the experience to discuss typical, discuss case study. the one time you tried this.
1429677;1457650277;asciilifeform;found, later, that MOST evo were bought by forensic (police) labs
1429678;1457650280;asciilifeform;which are bound to usgola
1429679;1457650282;asciilifeform;by statute.
1429680;1457650293;asciilifeform;this handily explained maybe half of my problem.
1429681;1457650294;mircea_popescu;explain this.
1429682;1457650298;asciilifeform;aha
1429683;1457650311;mircea_popescu;no i mean, explain "which are bound to usgola".
1429684;1457650407;asciilifeform;they have to use ~certified~ crud
1429685;1457650479;asciilifeform;this means 1) winblowz 2) massive bag of payola to 'cerfifiers'
1429686;1457650482;asciilifeform;think fda.
1429687;1457650507;mircea_popescu;afaik they still buy whatever donuts they want.
1429688;1457650519;asciilifeform;yeah but this is not doughnut
1429689;1457650524;asciilifeform;this would actually touch the evidence.
1429690;1457650537;asciilifeform;anyway ianal
1429691;1457650541;asciilifeform;but this is what i found out.
1429692;1457650571;mircea_popescu;seeing all the recent scandals with falsifications etc, i'd be much surprised if they even run the equipment anymore, so yeah.
1429693;1457650577;asciilifeform;maaaaaaaybe we could have 'fought city hall' IF WE HAD MONEY
1429694;1457650579;mircea_popescu;and in other news, omfg this provolone is magnificent.
1429695;1457650579;asciilifeform;WE DID NOT
1429696;1457650590;asciilifeform;and still don;t.
1429697;1457650597;asciilifeform;because how.
1429698;1457650610;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so is it like 10% ?
1429699;1457650628;asciilifeform;which
1429700;1457650663;mircea_popescu;<mircea_popescu> now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?
1429701;1457650676;asciilifeform;can be 10, could be 1000
1429702;1457650692;asciilifeform;my lab tested custom compounds in vitro, some worth $50k/gram
1429703;1457650697;asciilifeform;ruined sample is a loss.
1429704;1457650721;asciilifeform;the competition to the machine was asian gurlz for $15/h
1429705;1457650731;asciilifeform;they were accurate, mostly, but could not match the speed.
1429706;1457650737;asciilifeform;but wtf woudl a usg lab care about speed.
1429707;1457650801;asciilifeform;again if it helps to understand this, it is not a plug-and-go thing, i would have to show up in PERSON and work out the process flow
1429708;1457650802;mircea_popescu;ok, so what i'll say is, "this machine, once deployed, would improve your workflow by about 15%, which is worth about 50k or so. it could also be had hiring techs, at a cost of about 60k a year for the machine's lifespan"
1429709;1457650812;asciilifeform;and reverse any proprietary hardware they have that i did not have when i wrote it.
1429710;1457650831;mircea_popescu;"the cost for its deployment includes me spending a month fucking up yoru shit, which is about 10k or so, and our fee, which is 2500 a year"
1429711;1457650833;mircea_popescu;this about it ?
1429712;1457650862;asciilifeform;approx.
1429713;1457650866;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you forget that in a previous lifetime i made a lot of money out of insepcting and changing production workflow.
1429714;1457650871;asciilifeform;though this is mega-lowball
1429715;1457650878;asciilifeform;and assumes no surgical, if you will, complications.
1429716;1457650886;asciilifeform;and yeah i recall
1429717;1457650888;mircea_popescu;mega lowball ie, re cost ?
1429718;1457650897;asciilifeform;aha
1429719;1457650907;mircea_popescu;i can see why it didn't sell.
1429720;1457650920;mircea_popescu;not to say it is your fault, tho. but i can see why it didn't sell, needn't any conspiracy to explain it.
1429721;1457650928;asciilifeform;didn't say there was !
1429722;1457650949;asciilifeform;and also recall that i'm a nobody with nothing. i dont;' even have the money to make 10k one month and then nothing for 3.
1429723;1457651002;mircea_popescu;this is a large part of the problem. there's a hidden barrier to entry here, that is the "cost to enter wot". ie, as a manager of x item, i MAY consider dealing wioth nobody. but not over anything.
1429724;1457651021;asciilifeform;aha.
1429725;1457651027;asciilifeform;certainly not a half mil machine!
1429726;1457651029;mircea_popescu;much like the cost to send bitcoin txn, that random derps imagine to be "=fee" is in fact something like 0.5 to 5 btc PER TX, if you include EVERYTHING ytou need to run bitcoin payments,
1429727;1457651031;asciilifeform;handling 50k/gram samples !!
1429728;1457651037;mircea_popescu;just so the cost of dealing with some dude is not 0 in any sense.
1429729;1457651039;asciilifeform;agha!!
1429730;1457651046;mircea_popescu;just the fact that i have toi make an entry in my phonebook is $$$.
1429731;1457651056;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is SMARRT and GETS IT!
1429732;1457651064;mircea_popescu;experience carries a long way.
1429733;1457651093;asciilifeform;that thing was, if you will, my 'formative' naggum experience.
1429734;1457651094;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't take this failure to be more informative than it is. the technology never entered into discussion, it failed on economic grounds.
1429735;1457651104;asciilifeform;certainly did!
1429736;1457651126;asciilifeform;and the solution was 'stop being you, be somebody else'
1429737;1457651131;asciilifeform;but all i had was being me.
1429738;1457651133;mircea_popescu;not exactly.
1429739;1457651141;mircea_popescu;ima finish eating and come back to this.
1429740;1457651397;mircea_popescu;so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.
1429741;1457651407;mircea_popescu;but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.
1429742;1457651424;mircea_popescu;incidentally, this trap is what informs the vc circus' derpage about "big" bla bla.
1429743;1457651457;mircea_popescu;yeah, it metastasized into idiocy, but originally it's the very logical observation that the draw needed to make sales in b2b is much larger than consumer.
1429744;1457651606;mircea_popescu;http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-10.log.html#t19:57:29 << "true quality ~as seen before~". ie, let's just call it that for the sake of calling it something.
1429745;1457651607;assbot;#Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-03-10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ra55mS )
1429746;1457651618;mircea_popescu;damn.
1429747;1457654762;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429740 << YES! which is why we called tecan 1st!1111
1429748;1457654762;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 23:09:57; mircea_popescu: so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.
1429749;1457654797;*;asciilifeform is not ~complete~ idiot
1429750;1457654926;pete_dushenski;;;ticker
1429751;1457654927;gribble;Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 416.65, Best ask: 417.02, Bid-ask spread: 0.37000, Last trade: 416.7, 24 hour volume: 13751.63415602, 24 hour low: 410.68, 24 hour high: 418.24, 24 hour vwap: None
1429752;1457654939;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429741 << well not quite, he ~could~ buy the whole orchestra and sell machine+nonwinblowz+customization etc.
1429753;1457654939;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 23:10:07; mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.
1429754;1457654953;asciilifeform;but usg would not sign off on it.
1429755;1457654955;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00052301 = 6.1192 BTC [-] {4} 
1429756;1457654966;asciilifeform;he would have to sell it in north kr.
1429757;1457655010;asciilifeform;consider iran
1429758;1457655016;asciilifeform;siemens sold them stuxnet-os successfully.
1429759;1457655020;asciilifeform;because...???
1429760;1457655034;asciilifeform;because NO ONE GIVES HALF A FUCK
1429761;1457655039;pete_dushenski;or non datur ?
1429762;1457655056;asciilifeform;no one wants to LIVE badly enough
1429763;1457655058;asciilifeform;to make use of sanity.
1429764;1457655102;pete_dushenski;or they want to live plenty and don't seem to be ~sufficiently~ dying on own petard for using winbloze.
1429765;1457655113;asciilifeform;which is why it is important to ~help them die~.
1429766;1457655122;pete_dushenski;god's work
1429767;1457655234;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429323 << 'momo' calls to mind a) steering wheel company famous for racing helms, b) slang name for retard
1429768;1457655234;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 21:30:24; asciilifeform: i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.
1429769;1457655520;pete_dushenski;http://www.rallynuts.com/user/products/large/MOD_07_lge.jpg << momo wheel : the ultimate in minimalism
1429770;1457655521;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21lsH7r )
1429771;1457656169;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> no one wants to LIVE badly enough << sadly, this is ~true.
1429772;1457656186;mircea_popescu;nobody is used to the idea that fuck up and it's your ass. not anymore. because hey, "that's no way to live".
1429773;1457656189;mircea_popescu;well... neither is this.
1429774;1457656883;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: "only a cynical man would call what these people have lives...this is not how man was supposed to live."
1429775;1457657018;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429640 << fwiw i even enjoy giving pitches in person
1429776;1457657018;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 22:42:50; *: BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem
1429777;1457657284;mircea_popescu;" 1]To whomever is now going to say "it's server fault, deedbot should output GPG signed material with proper mimetype like application/pgp-signature". I can only recommend frontal lobotomy by robot that fetches its instructions with wget." << i lolled.
1429778;1457657330;mircea_popescu;in other news today, how to get married in japan :  http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbyjia9Msv1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1429779;1457657331;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCLqGo )
1429780;1457657369;pete_dushenski;with wet floor pylons ??
1429781;1457657388;mircea_popescu;lol
1429782;1457657400;mircea_popescu;i think the "slippery when wet" thing is much needed instruction for otaku.
1429783;1457657414;pete_dushenski;and bukkake
1429784;1457657425;mircea_popescu;isn't that "wet when slippery" ?
1429785;1457657496;*;pete_dushenski hasn't tried. doesn't know
1429786;1457657896;pete_dushenski;http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/travel/venice-italy-jewish-ghetto.html << speaking of all things tmsr
1429787;1457657899;assbot;Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCM9ax )
1429788;1457657920;pete_dushenski;'500 Years of Jewish Life in Venice'
1429789;1457657944;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00052284 = 3.137 BTC [-] {2} 
1429790;1457657993;pete_dushenski;"Every Venetian I spoke to, Jew and gentile alike, had expressed deep pessimism about the city’s future." << sounds about right
1429791;1457658266;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429767 << momotaro.
1429792;1457658266;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 00:13:54; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429323 << 'momo' calls to mind a) steering wheel company famous for racing helms, b) slang name for retard
1429793;1457658269;asciilifeform;!s momotaro
1429794;1457658270;assbot;4 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro
1429795;1457658279;asciilifeform;jp folktale.
1429796;1457658545;pete_dushenski;ya, just sayin'
1429797;1457658599;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429778 << what even is happening in the pic
1429798;1457658599;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 00:48:50; mircea_popescu: in other news today, how to get married in japan :  http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbyjia9Msv1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1429799;1457658646;asciilifeform;also i notice that jp, like ar, does not manufacture ugly chix in any appreciable qty. at all.
1429800;1457658702;pete_dushenski;letting out of doors and manufacturing are different beasts
1429801;1457658796;asciilifeform;they might feed the ugly chix to koi
1429802;1457658815;asciilifeform;but i will point out that there are not enough koi, or even sharks, on the planet3, to feed the ugly anglo chix to.
1429803;1457658821;asciilifeform;just too big of a job.
1429804;1457658869;pete_dushenski;jp just figured out 'organic food' centuries ago. it's a newer concept to anglos.
1429805;1457658925;asciilifeform;afaik they never invented eating shit to begin with.
1429806;1457658928;asciilifeform;most folks didn't.
1429807;1457658935;asciilifeform;until americans 'helped'.
1429808;1457658948;asciilifeform;starvation was good enough for people-who-had-no-food.
1429809;1457658979;asciilifeform;(yes cn ate swallow nests, crickets, etc. and sure. but modern mass poisoning ~requires~ industry.)
1429810;1457658981;pete_dushenski;pre-americans also had insufficient chemistry
1429811;1457659041;asciilifeform;holy FUCK kakobrekla i have 100% 'silentwings' fans, NEW CASE, WITH ACOUSTIC FOAM, and STILL get resonances.
1429812;1457659045;asciilifeform;wtf, what gives.
1429813;1457659053;asciilifeform;it it the motherfucking disks ?!!
1429814;1457659067;pete_dushenski;shoulda bought silentwings case too
1429815;1457659069;asciilifeform;i threw out 2, replaced with ssd for the cost of their weight in plutonium, i suppose now have to do other 2 ?!!
1429816;1457659078;*;asciilifeform grimaces
1429817;1457659092;kakobrekla;hm
1429818;1457659101;asciilifeform;BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
1429819;1457659101;kakobrekla;im curious, which case is it?
1429820;1457659103;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00052284 = 5.0715 BTC [-]
1429821;1457659103;asciilifeform;3 days now
1429822;1457659143;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: 'Thermaltake Suppressor F-51'
1429823;1457659160;asciilifeform;steel, with silencing foam on 4 sides.
1429824;1457659163;kakobrekla;im spinning rust free - i have a few 'hp microservers' for that running in another room
1429825;1457659193;asciilifeform;i have the fucker standing on fist-sized sorbothane legs, too
1429826;1457659196;asciilifeform;doesn't help.
1429827;1457659202;pete_dushenski;http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9364/IMG_2708_678x452.jpg << cases in question
1429828;1457659203;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlcqi )
1429829;1457659216;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: ick
1429830;1457659219;asciilifeform;WTF with the glass, srsly
1429831;1457659225;asciilifeform;that should be an inch thick foam.
1429832;1457659231;pete_dushenski;gurls love it
1429833;1457659234;asciilifeform;???
1429834;1457659280;pete_dushenski;"check out my sweet machine babe. you can see INSIDE" "omg that's hot [drops pants, bends over]"
1429835;1457659290;kakobrekla;for case i use 'fractal design r4' which looks surprisingly similar to your pick
1429836;1457659298;pete_dushenski;this is how i imagine thinking works in reddit heads, at least
1429837;1457659318;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: i am not a shrink, cannot catalogue every possible delusion
1429838;1457659355;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: this thing had noise dampeners and intake filters (bottom and front)
1429839;1457659366;kakobrekla;yes same here
1429840;1457659382;asciilifeform;the hdd fittings are, fucktardedly, plastic tho.
1429841;1457659390;asciilifeform;i suppose everyone is expected to ssd now.
1429842;1457659398;asciilifeform;old case had steel brackets with rubber grommets.
1429843;1457659399;*;nubbins` has cheapest fractal design case
1429844;1457659403;kakobrekla;mine are rubberized
1429845;1457659405;asciilifeform;nubbins`: which ?
1429846;1457659410;nubbins`;core 1000
1429847;1457659415;nubbins`;~$50
1429848;1457659430;asciilifeform;http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/core-series/core-1000-usb-30 << it ?
1429849;1457659431;assbot;Fractal Design ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlHk6 )
1429850;1457659435;nubbins`;yep
1429851;1457659436;nubbins`;rubber hdd groms
1429852;1457659459;asciilifeform;has dampeners ?
1429853;1457659482;asciilifeform;i really got the 'thermaltake' on account of the bottom-mount ps
1429854;1457659484;nubbins`;nah, just spied the brand & blurted
1429855;1457659487;kakobrekla;http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-r4-black-pearl
1429856;1457659489;assbot;Fractal Design ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlLR1 )
1429857;1457659493;asciilifeform;(hole, that is. bought ps elsewhere, fanless)
1429858;1457659494;kakobrekla;pretty sure that one is mine
1429859;1457659504;nubbins`;vertical mount hdd thing kinda sucks
1429860;1457659506;kakobrekla;the fan that comes with it is useless though.
1429861;1457659511;nubbins`;given that i don't have a turkey-sized gpu
1429862;1457659531;asciilifeform;i would love to buy a case that is just 200kg of copper hedgehog.
1429863;1457659545;asciilifeform;fuck fans.
1429864;1457659548;nubbins`;copper bucket full of thermal paste
1429865;1457659562;asciilifeform;nubbins`: see the immersion cooling thread, physics does not cooperate
1429866;1457659569;asciilifeform;(unless the machine is DESIGNED for it from day 1.)
1429867;1457659571;asciilifeform;like cray was.
1429868;1457659600;*;nubbins` used to work at gov research institute in ottawa, massive cray in lunchroom behind glass doors
1429869;1457659603;asciilifeform;immersion adds parasitic capacitance to pcb traces.
1429870;1457659624;asciilifeform;nubbins`: surely not the immersive cray ?
1429871;1457659624;nubbins`;yeah, as soon as i said, i figured that much muck wouldn't fly
1429872;1457659625;asciilifeform;(cray-2)
1429873;1457659628;nubbins`;asciilifeform nah
1429874;1457659640;nubbins`;would recognize from a picture, but can't recall any details
1429875;1457659646;asciilifeform;prolly one of the shams they made after cray died
1429876;1457659648;nubbins`;only that obtaining time on it was highly coveted
1429877;1457659649;asciilifeform;with intel cpus.
1429878;1457659660;nubbins`;this woulda been early 2000s
1429879;1457659667;kakobrekla;anyway, easy to cut power to hdd to see if that is the bugger
1429880;1457659669;asciilifeform;then - crud, yes
1429881;1457659670;nubbins`;long after glory
1429882;1457659692;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: can't do this when it spins, will rape the raid
1429883;1457659699;nubbins`;afaik cray never really recovered from getting chip supply choked early on
1429884;1457659699;kakobrekla;i dont think i get much resonances
1429885;1457659705;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: it comes and goes.
1429886;1457659718;asciilifeform;nubbins`: it did not recover from cray being dead.
1429887;1457659722;asciilifeform;tends to be how it goes.
1429888;1457659722;kakobrekla;but then again i spin fans at 200 rpm or less
1429889;1457659736;pete_dushenski;;;seen polarbeard
1429890;1457659737;gribble;polarbeard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <polarbeard> cpp is full of it
1429891;1457659741;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: i suspect that it is the heatsinks
1429892;1457659748;asciilifeform;they are loosely-coupled and vibrate.
1429893;1457659756;asciilifeform;(2 cpu board.)
1429894;1457659782;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: prolly he decided that we're a buncha nutters.
1429895;1457659794;asciilifeform;after the 'regrind' thread.
1429896;1457659795;pete_dushenski;this was news ?
1429897;1457659801;nubbins`;^
1429898;1457659806;asciilifeform;news to ~him~
1429899;1457659810;nubbins`;...^
1429900;1457659812;asciilifeform;that he'd have to write every patch N times.
1429901;1457659815;kakobrekla;for heatsinks i use http://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d14 (ofc not with default fans)
1429902;1457659817;assbot;NH-D14 ... ( http://bit.ly/1MartVs )
1429903;1457659820;asciilifeform;fella couldn't take it.
1429904;1457659827;pete_dushenski;this is why kids should read logs for 6 months before talking
1429905;1457659836;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: this physically won't fit.
1429906;1457659844;asciilifeform;(on my board)
1429907;1457659847;asciilifeform;again, 2 cpu
1429908;1457659847;kakobrekla;ah
1429909;1457659851;kakobrekla;aha
1429910;1457659865;kakobrekla;theres plenty of models
1429911;1457659875;asciilifeform;no socket F tho.
1429912;1457659879;nubbins`;sous-vide computing
1429913;1457659887;pete_dushenski;heh
1429914;1457659888;asciilifeform;it is interesting, i searched for MONTHS to find a new set of socket F hs, found NONE
1429915;1457659895;asciilifeform;had to WASH my old ones.
1429916;1457659895;pete_dushenski;60c max
1429917;1457659906;asciilifeform;~decade of dirt.
1429918;1457659919;asciilifeform;vacuuming and even air compressor, turns out, does not really clean the inside.
1429919;1457659923;asciilifeform;it builds up.
1429920;1457659947;kakobrekla;"Thermalright HR-01 X" ?
1429921;1457659957;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052461 = 2.6755 BTC [+] {2} 
1429922;1457659994;asciilifeform;where do you see AMD F in these ?
1429923;1457660033;asciilifeform;i see AM2/AM3 and intel only.
1429924;1457660048;asciilifeform;or, hm, there was adapter.
1429925;1457660053;asciilifeform;sold out eons ago, looks like.
1429926;1457660074;asciilifeform;but that this is actually very similar shape to what i had before.
1429927;1457660085;asciilifeform;looks a tiny bit more cleanable.
1429928;1457660101;kakobrekla;mebbe something liek http://imagehost.losias.net/images/U2y3F.jpg
1429929;1457660104;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQn0iY )
1429930;1457660107;asciilifeform;substantially top-heavy though
1429931;1457660114;asciilifeform;will vibrate even moar than mine !
1429932;1457660129;asciilifeform;heat sink should not be top-heavy!1111
1429933;1457660148;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: i have the dimms b/w the sockets, so this might not fly.
1429934;1457660150;kakobrekla;and the world should not be round, yet ...
1429935;1457660155;asciilifeform;l0l
1429936;1457660177;asciilifeform;anyway these look quite like mine, but stood on end.
1429937;1457660186;kakobrekla;http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-6950-AMD-Opteron-Socket-F-CPU-Heatsink-Y9115-/251322845713
1429938;1457660187;assbot;Dell Poweredge 6950 AMD Opteron Socket F CPU Heatsink Y9115 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQnaa8 )
1429939;1457660187;kakobrekla;?
1429940;1457660197;kakobrekla;not top heavy but all heavy
1429941;1457660201;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12544 @ 0.00052292 = 6.5595 BTC [-] {4} 
1429942;1457660203;asciilifeform;the dell hs need dell mobo holes!
1429943;1457660209;asciilifeform;notice no bracket !111
1429944;1457660214;kakobrekla;fuck do i know what you have
1429945;1457660218;asciilifeform;tyan.
1429946;1457660219;asciilifeform;forever.
1429947;1457660227;kakobrekla;anyway this ends google-fu :)
1429948;1457660232;asciilifeform;aha, extinct!
1429949;1457660244;asciilifeform;reminds me, i gotta get a few moare of those same tyans
1429950;1457660247;asciilifeform;for if this one ever melts.
1429951;1457660264;asciilifeform;(if it blows a filter cap i can replace cap, dead northbridge - no)
1429952;1457660268;kakobrekla;i believe i managed to acquire even more extintier things
1429953;1457660285;asciilifeform;next set of hedgehogs , i expect to machine myself.
1429954;1457660287;asciilifeform;from ingots.
1429955;1457660292;asciilifeform;one day.
1429956;1457660316;kakobrekla;however it took time and luck.
1429957;1457660333;asciilifeform;new hs is not top priority atm for me.
1429958;1457660339;asciilifeform;after all, old ones are clean now.
1429959;1457660368;kakobrekla;i could get a custom adapter machined here if id be in such position prolly
1429960;1457660402;asciilifeform;what i really want is just a 1m long heat pipe from each cpu
1429961;1457660406;asciilifeform;to a 200kg copper hog.
1429962;1457660419;asciilifeform;'if wishes were horses..' (tm)
1429963;1457660439;asciilifeform;pc oughta look like a mains transformer
1429964;1457660442;asciilifeform;the kind on a pole.
1429965;1457660460;asciilifeform;zalman co. made this for a brief spell a decade ago, it did not sell, cost $3k
1429966;1457660485;asciilifeform;turns out there's ~no market for well-made quiet thing, whodavethunkit
1429967;1457660537;asciilifeform;http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/noiseless-computing,741.html << it.
1429968;1457660538;assbot;Noiseless Computing: New Case Innovation From Zalman - Introduction ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasE7i )
1429969;1457660543;kakobrekla;anyway its possible it just takes effort, like i had to buy 50 high end fans to find be-quiet
1429970;1457660563;nubbins`;oddly, my current mobo has user-swappable op-amp for audio output
1429971;1457660579;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i've even seen ones with tube amp !
1429972;1457660584;asciilifeform;yes, on the mobo.
1429973;1457660586;kakobrekla;nubbins` yet still garbage
1429974;1457660594;nubbins`;lel.
1429975;1457660602;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: as far as im concerned if it had ONE moving part, it is rubbish.
1429976;1457660605;asciilifeform;i don't care where.
1429977;1457660615;nubbins`;kakobrekla i'd imagine a proper op-amp from the start would be cheaper than adding the socket
1429978;1457660630;asciilifeform;nubbins`: presumably it is for folks who habitually blow the amp
1429979;1457660639;nubbins`;lel it is a "gaming" mobo, so...
1429980;1457660647;nubbins`;target market is obv idiots
1429981;1457660680;nubbins`;gold-plated audio connectors! electrically isolated audio section on board w/ LEDs demarcating! zzzzz
1429982;1457660693;kakobrekla;all integrated sound cards are rubbish. ALL of them.
1429983;1457660703;nubbins`;bought because cheap
1429984;1457660711;nubbins`;don't even have speakers hooked up to it
1429985;1457660714;nubbins`;just the piezo
1429986;1457660718;nubbins`;!
1429987;1457660730;kakobrekla;yes, mine is isolated too and yet it still pops when i tested it. (yes have a dedicated card for this)
1429988;1457660746;nubbins`;http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4968#ov
1429989;1457660747;assbot;GIGABYTE  - Motherboard - Socket 1150 - GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5 (rev. 1.0) ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasYD9 )
1429990;1457660795;kakobrekla;hooked to ~2 grand speakers - however this is not my main listening setup
1429991;1457660818;nubbins`;we have an audiophile!
1429992;1457660822;kakobrekla;audiofool!
1429993;1457660831;*;nubbins` wonders if kako is vinyl collector or "other" type
1429994;1457660861;kakobrekla;i have some records but not a collector
1429995;1457660892;nubbins`;same, maybe buy a half dozen per year
1429996;1457660903;kakobrekla;i havent bought any in years.
1429997;1457660912;nubbins`;lots of newer pressings are pure shit
1429998;1457660924;nubbins`;poor QC, not properly mastered for vinyl, etc
1429999;1457660928;kakobrekla;i only have the old stuff
1430000;1457660929;nubbins`;but it's just a cash cow now
1430001;1457660938;kakobrekla;the new stuff is digitally recorded and then baked to vinyl
1430002;1457660940;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> kakobrekla: as far as im concerned if it had ONE moving part, it is rubbish. << Aha, this goes to the power tool dilemma where unless paying out the ass everything is made by TTI in china and it is a competition between which TTI reseller do you trust most to preserve their battery platform. Not directly connected to this utterance of yours, but for some reason this is the one brian in the head clicked the thread t
1430003;1457660940;BingoBoingo;ogether on.
1430004;1457660941;*;pete_dushenski off to old theatre to watch monty python
1430005;1457660949;nubbins`;old records are best, esp. if you have a spin-clean or similar
1430006;1457660968;nubbins`;kakobrekla if you want to hear modern all-analog path, check out a record by Shellac of North America
1430007;1457660996;kakobrekla;nubbins` i havent had a record player connected to my setup for years also
1430008;1457661005;nubbins`;a
1430009;1457661008;nubbins`;https://www.withfriendship.com/images/i/42145/Steve-Albini-picture.jpg
1430010;1457661009;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQp3no )
1430011;1457661073;nubbins`;^ frontman of shellac, also engineer @ electrical audio, who famously bought an entire batch of reel2reel tape when mfg discontinued
1430012;1457661080;nubbins`;"we'll have enough to last us until we're dead"
1430013;1457661089;kakobrekla;nubbins` not my pic but i use this for streaming flacs (with external clock) http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1057680-logitech-modwright-transporter-rare-all-black-finish.jpg
1430014;1457661090;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQpcaq )
1430015;1457661116;nubbins`;wild, like a hot rod
1430016;1457661132;kakobrekla;this is the source of the setup.
1430017;1457661182;*;nubbins` has been sucked back into analog synths recently
1430018;1457661206;*;BingoBoingo very thankful in this moment he prefers AM radio for listening to as this avoids very expensive path to financial damnation.
1430019;1457661268;nubbins`;https://www.arturia.com/products/hardware-synths/microbrute << newest member of family
1430020;1457661270;assbot;Arturia - Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQpC0c )
1430021;1457661337;kakobrekla;anyway speakers are the most important part and dipole ribbons are where the music is at
1430022;1457661431;nubbins`;hmm
1430023;1457661498;kakobrekla;see here http://www.soulsonicspeakers.com/gallery.html
1430024;1457661499;assbot;SoulSonic Speakers ... ( http://bit.ly/1MaufKv )
1430025;1457661524;adlai;BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY6PAkLG2p4
1430026;1457661525;assbot;Hot Rod (8/10) Movie CLIP - The King of AM Radio (2007) HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Maugy1 )
1430027;1457661525;kakobrekla;mine were custom made by this guy, a friend of mine.
1430028;1457661575;nubbins`;i'm using a roland keyboard amp in the music studio and crappy infinity speakers on the record player ;/
1430029;1457661584;nubbins`;shocking
1430030;1457661606;nubbins`;kakobrekla there's a guy i know makes speakers too, http://www.areaudio.com
1430031;1457661609;assbot;Are Audio » Are Audio ... ( http://bit.ly/1Maund5 )
1430032;1457661625;nubbins`;will get a pair one day!
1430033;1457661663;kakobrekla;i cant listen to non-ribbon speakers any more
1430034;1457661681;kakobrekla;utter garbage even if made from diamond
1430035;1457661703;kakobrekla;(cant beat physics)
1430036;1457661785;nubbins`;i should read about these ribbon speakers of yrs
1430037;1457661797;kakobrekla;no, you should listen to them.
1430038;1457661848;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13393 @ 0.00052311 = 7.006 BTC [+] {2} 
1430039;1457661851;nubbins`;!
1430040;1457661969;kakobrekla;anyway, classical cone tweeters are problematic because of small surface and therefore large surface volume which makes ears bleed
1430041;1457662007;kakobrekla;and there is no way around it but with large surface (and low mass)
1430042;1457662019;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429801 << bwahahah.
1430043;1457662019;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 01:13:16; asciilifeform: they might feed the ugly chix to koi
1430044;1457662108;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429822 << by now you're prolly well advised to get a performance low freq microphone and inspect the item thoroughly
1430045;1457662108;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 01:19:03; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'Thermaltake Suppressor F-51'
1430046;1457662132;mircea_popescu;(things are used widely in machining to find problems with mechanical movement prototypes)
1430047;1457662223;nubbins`;^ actually asciilifeform a simple piezo & some leads might provide some clues as to the source
1430048;1457662291;nubbins`;could tape one to each component and still be out less than $10, even
1430049;1457662305;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429862 << you know, all the "artist" metalworking chicks could prolly make you one to order.
1430050;1457662305;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 01:25:31; asciilifeform: i would love to buy a case that is just 200kg of copper hedgehog.
1430051;1457662338;mircea_popescu;"first of its kind game of thrones case ; 1/4 ton copper alloy, blades"
1430052;1457662351;mircea_popescu;prolly make it so you can SIT on it, also.
1430053;1457662370;mircea_popescu;kinda fun side project, this.
1430054;1457662386;mircea_popescu;and yes, eminently crowdfundable.
1430055;1457662409;mircea_popescu;give people pictures of you sitting on your casechair for $20 or w/e.
1430056;1457663115;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429987 << my ~whole room~ is (yes) isolated. inverter.
1430057;1457663115;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 01:45:30; kakobrekla: yes, mine is isolated too and yet it still pops when i tested it. (yes have a dedicated card for this)
1430058;1457663154;kakobrekla;the pops come from other parts of the mobo cant isolate that
1430059;1457663169;kakobrekla;stand alone card doesnt have such issues
1430060;1457663181;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430012 << logical
1430061;1457663181;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 01:51:20; nubbins`: "we'll have enough to last us until we're dead"
1430062;1457663191;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: aha
1430063;1457663212;kakobrekla;(this one http://www.guru3d.com/miraserver/images/2010/titanium-hd/leader.jpg )
1430064;1457663213;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjJxTI )
1430065;1457663244;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430044 << i'ma laser interferometer at it eventually
1430066;1457663244;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 02:08:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429822 << by now you're prolly well advised to get a performance low freq microphone and inspect the item thoroughly
1430067;1457663270;asciilifeform;BUT i'd really much rathet be rid of all the moving partz!
1430068;1457663277;mircea_popescu;i can't help but think i'm so blessed to not care about fan noise, loudspeakers, monitors et all.
1430069;1457663293;kakobrekla;life is easy for blind and deaf
1430070;1457663294;mircea_popescu;the last time i even used a headphone was months ago
1430071;1457663298;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla totally.
1430072;1457663318;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430049 << mno, hs tolerances are sub-mm
1430073;1457663318;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 02:11:45; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429862 << you know, all the "artist" metalworking chicks could prolly make you one to order.
1430074;1457663337;mircea_popescu;i dunno, maybe it's my time looking at ega gfx and appreciating golden axe music on the 8 bit case speaker
1430075;1457663352;asciilifeform;hey i had same
1430076;1457663364;asciilifeform;prolly longer!
1430077;1457663365;mircea_popescu;how sub mm ? pretty sure they can make 0.01ish.
1430078;1457663377;mircea_popescu;this is how all those fancy interlocking metal slav collars get made.
1430079;1457663388;asciilifeform;to me games ~still~ mean msdos.
1430080;1457663403;mircea_popescu;sukatora sassa!
1430081;1457663409;mircea_popescu;now i wanna listen to it lmao
1430082;1457663416;asciilifeform;ahahahaha
1430083;1457663441;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSEk8kZAu0 totally, check this shit out!
1430084;1457663442;assbot;Sutakora, Sassa! - Golden Axe Music Extended - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjJSWx )
1430085;1457663449;mircea_popescu;and i thought it must be some sort of famous tune or w/e ? turns out, no ?
1430086;1457663471;asciilifeform;afaik only in goldenaxe.
1430087;1457663481;mircea_popescu;the things one remembers.
1430088;1457663483;asciilifeform;'Adlib' ftw
1430089;1457663536;mircea_popescu;Pedalavo come se fuggissi, e in realta fuggivo, da lei, da quelle emozioni, da i sogni, da i ricordi, da tutto. E pensavo che dovevo dimenticare. Ero certo che sarei riuscito a dimenticare. Ma oggi che sono vecchio, che ho consumato banalmente la vita, talch� ho conosciuto tante donne che m'hanno detto "ricordati di me" e io le ho scordate tutte, ancora oggi lei, l'unica che non ho mai dimenticato... Sutakora Sassa!
1430090;1457663551;asciilifeform;goldenaxe2 ruled.
1430091;1457663808;kakobrekla;yes, i made friends because of it.
1430092;1457664411;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430052<< cray sofa!!
1430093;1457664411;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 02:12:31; mircea_popescu: prolly make it so you can SIT on it, also.
1430094;1457664434;asciilifeform;was a thing, he put the monster power supply there
1430095;1457664445;mircea_popescu;aha
1430096;1457664446;asciilifeform;around the 'horseshoe'
1430097;1457664485;kakobrekla;btw re liquid cooled para capacitance, modern computer gear seem to work in oil immersion setups without any special design
1430098;1457664486;asciilifeform;cray was a titan.
1430099;1457664491;mircea_popescu;sorta like the heated water bed. all you wanna do is fuck all the blustery winter day.
1430100;1457664508;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: electrolytic caps swell.
1430101;1457664512;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla i remember me saying that and alf being all alf all over it!
1430102;1457664529;asciilifeform;they do tho
1430103;1457664541;kakobrekla;i recall one such setup being operable for years
1430104;1457664542;mircea_popescu;hard to argue with practice yo!
1430105;1457664551;asciilifeform;where?
1430106;1457664558;asciilifeform;and in which liquid
1430107;1457664560;mircea_popescu;crazy gamers everywhere.
1430108;1457664579;*;asciilifeform genuinely curious
1430109;1457664606;mircea_popescu;i never gave that much of a shit, myself
1430110;1457664610;asciilifeform;and 'operable' for gamer means typically slightly diff thing than for me
1430111;1457664635;asciilifeform;(years of 24/7 with no bitrot)
1430112;1457664691;kakobrekla;i recall it was office pc that worked years after installed and no i dont have the link written down anywhere
1430113;1457664714;asciilifeform;what did he do with the disks?
1430114;1457664735;kakobrekla;dont recall
1430115;1457664738;asciilifeform;and how about the ports
1430116;1457664750;asciilifeform;cables glued in?
1430117;1457664761;kakobrekla;why would you glue them
1430118;1457664775;asciilifeform;because sealed oil tank??
1430119;1457664790;kakobrekla;ah i thought glued in sockets
1430120;1457664810;asciilifeform;or, what, ick, open to air, spillable idiocy?
1430121;1457664840;kakobrekla;dont change the argument this has nothing to do with capacitance !
1430122;1457664853;asciilifeform;i wonder if he filled with siloxane
1430123;1457664882;kakobrekla;anyway i see you want all the upside with no downside
1430124;1457664892;asciilifeform;hell yes.
1430125;1457664914;asciilifeform;thats what i ~do~.
1430126;1457664923;kakobrekla;hence very little solutions.
1430127;1457664933;asciilifeform;aha.
1430128;1457664945;asciilifeform;but when solved - solved.
1430129;1457664962;asciilifeform;it's a thing...
1430130;1457664965;kakobrekla;more if than when.
1430131;1457664977;asciilifeform;unfortunately.
1430132;1457664996;asciilifeform;ars longa .. (tm)
1430133;1457665041;asciilifeform;for half-solutions, call up yer local halfsolutionmart! it will provide!
1430134;1457665107;kakobrekla;sometimes 95% solution will be better than no solution at all
1430135;1457665298;asciilifeform;call 95%mart!111 it liveth to serve!
1430136;1457665352;kakobrekla;yes i found be-quiet there
1430137;1457665486;*;kakobrekla curious if asciilifeform ever makes a compromise for the sake of his pet 
1430138;1457665693;nubbins`;now to have a witbier in bed. nite
1430139;1457665752;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00052462 = 4.8265 BTC [+]
1430140;1457665813;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.0005248 = 6.6125 BTC [+]
1430141;1457665831;punkman;/me found a dusty, 20 year old bottle of Canadian Club yesterday
1430142;1457665874;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7340 @ 0.00052549 = 3.8571 BTC [+] {3} 
1430143;1457665912;kakobrekla;does it still work?
1430144;1457665928;punkman;I will find out now
1430145;1457666141;punkman;hmm not bad. I should find a newer bottle to compare it with.
1430146;1457666233;punkman;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4I9iBZNUu4
1430147;1457666234;assbot;Soul MaKossa - Manu Dibango - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIAwkR )
1430148;1457666305;*;kakobrekla actually has that album in his collection
1430149;1457666314;punkman;on vinyl?
1430150;1457666320;kakobrekla;neg
1430151;1457666365;kakobrekla;a flac.
1430152;1457666450;punkman;I have a small stash of 60-70s vinyl, but turntable has been out of order for a decade+
1430153;1457666470;punkman;128kbps is good enough for me anyway
1430154;1457666628;kakobrekla;you know how it is, once you go black you can never go back
1430155;1457666736;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430137 << getting out of bed every day is a fucking compromise for me.
1430156;1457666736;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 03:04:46; *: kakobrekla curious if asciilifeform ever makes a compromise for the sake of his pet 
1430157;1457666760;phf;mircea_popescu: i wonder what happened to him. << i spent some time outside
1430158;1457666787;asciilifeform;phf: good habit.
1430159;1457666789;phf;^- for reference http://glyf.org/tmp/outside.jpg
1430160;1457666791;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIBpda )
1430161;1457666857;kakobrekla;asciilifeform gotta take a leak at some point
1430162;1457666869;kakobrekla;i dont prefer doing it horizontally
1430163;1457666878;asciilifeform;l0l
1430164;1457666914;phf;ben_vulpes: i spent few hours in your city, long enough to collect loot from Powell's Books
1430165;1457666940;asciilifeform;* mircea_popescu has quit (Disconnected by services) << wat?!
1430166;1457666946;mircea_popescu;damned fleanode
1430167;1457666961;mircea_popescu;incidentally, i just talked to assboy
1430168;1457666966;mircea_popescu;apparently it doesn't know what !v is
1430169;1457667006;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu connected to the ftmeade fleanode or what.
1430170;1457667012;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's what it says when i ask nickserv to ghost my name.
1430171;1457667029;mircea_popescu;which i gotta do if i'm reconnecting before being officially disconnected.
1430172;1457667180;mircea_popescu;phf hey, looks just like where i'm from.
1430173;1457667183;mircea_popescu;what is this, cascadia ?
1430174;1457667222;phf;yeah, same, it's like being home. birch, evergreen, moss
1430175;1457667244;asciilifeform;neato
1430176;1457667251;asciilifeform;(precious little of this here in the swamps)
1430177;1457667277;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00052669 = 1.8961 BTC [+] {4} 
1430178;1457667286;*;kakobrekla lives in jungle by b-a standards
1430179;1457667338;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00052311 = 2.9556 BTC [-]
1430180;1457667370;mircea_popescu;https://cluj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/assets/pekus-statiunea-baisoara.jpg << the fashionable place for losing one's virginity at the time.
1430181;1457667371;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5ZBtB )
1430182;1457667897;kakobrekla;my house is approx visible here http://i.imgur.com/2qJEaL5.jpg
1430183;1457667898;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U606nr )
1430184;1457667913;*;asciilifeform fires up ac
1430185;1457667928;asciilifeform;without which summer here would not be habitable.
1430186;1457667950;mircea_popescu;still pine
1430187;1457667952;asciilifeform;spring is ~1 week long in the swamp.
1430188;1457667964;asciilifeform;after that - hot sticky mess
1430189;1457667969;asciilifeform;green hell
1430190;1457667983;asciilifeform;like venus prison planet in old sf stories.
1430191;1457668052;phf;asciilifeform: was dreading coming back to dc, it didn't disappoint. it's already getting clammy
1430192;1457668075;phf;meanwhile, in cascadian forest http://glyf.org/tmp/green-outside.jpg
1430193;1457668078;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIDjKC )
1430194;1457668096;asciilifeform;mm
1430195;1457668097;mircea_popescu;so why aren't you two moving to seattle or w/e
1430196;1457668102;phf;or http://glyf.org/tmp/bridge-outside.jpg the whole place is out of slavik fairytales
1430197;1457668104;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIDmq3 )
1430198;1457668110;kakobrekla;its not 100% solution !!!1111
1430199;1457668114;mircea_popescu;oh sorry.
1430200;1457668118;asciilifeform;i can't speak for phf
1430201;1457668181;mircea_popescu;yeah srsly phf looks just about right. i guess once i'm out on parole ima go live with ben_vulpes in his guest bedroom.
1430202;1457668197;asciilifeform;but swamp is one of the two kolymas where they have asciilifeforms toil to mine uranium for the 5yearplan
1430203;1457668224;mircea_popescu;what's the other one, the everglades ?
1430204;1457668228;asciilifeform;(the other being the godforsaken 10,000usd broomcloset flat bay area)
1430205;1457668276;asciilifeform;sf bay
1430206;1457668306;mircea_popescu;and in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jw_v3F_Q0
1430207;1457668307;assbot;The Kingston Trio - M.T.A. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1U60qT6 )
1430208;1457668314;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7211 @ 0.00052309 = 3.772 BTC [-] {3} 
1430209;1457668338;asciilifeform;famous!
1430210;1457668346;asciilifeform;i learned it from pet.
1430211;1457668406;mircea_popescu;how about  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0TtIRpG-jE ?
1430212;1457668407;assbot;Everglades - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1U60wdx )
1430213;1457668491;mircea_popescu;" Where a man can hide and never be found and have no fear of the bayin' hounds. But he better keep movin' and don't stand still. If the 'skeeters don't get then the 'gaters will"
1430214;1457668537;asciilifeform;sounds right.
1430215;1457668680;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00052284 = 4.8886 BTC [-] {2} 
1430216;1457668697;phf;i don't actually have any reason to stay in dc long term, maybe another few months to a year
1430217;1457668773;phf;but unlike ascii i don't have any aversion to shit jobs as long as they pay max and take up min time
1430218;1457669005;phf;i think "full stack" "web" etc. jobs are primarily shit not because you have to hack javascript or manage imbeciles, but because they have notoriously shit pay-time ratios. 9-5-5 for 140k and 1 week vacation? better fucking shoot me
1430219;1457669065;mircea_popescu;you know barrista makes 35k or so.
1430220;1457669132;mircea_popescu;;;calc 140000 * .45 / 8 / 5 / 51
1430221;1457669132;gribble;30.8823529412
1430222;1457669142;mircea_popescu;about half what a whore makes, if she's serious about it.
1430223;1457669181;asciilifeform;i thought a good whore can make MAXINT !?
1430224;1457669191;mircea_popescu;how did you think that ?
1430225;1457669246;asciilifeform;the ads in volkischer beobachter ?
1430226;1457669255;mircea_popescu;lol ok.
1430227;1457669262;asciilifeform;few hundy / hr
1430228;1457669293;mircea_popescu;it's mostly opportunity cost. she spends her time with you, she can't be at the blackjack table smooching.
1430229;1457669384;asciilifeform;whatever it is, it beats my profession.
1430230;1457669419;asciilifeform;no whore ever punched a motherfucking clock
1430231;1457669428;asciilifeform;or sat in an office.
1430232;1457669468;asciilifeform;or 'boss screen'-d.
1430233;1457669555;BingoBoingo;I dunno, they might have to actually punch clock at the regulated Nevada brothels
1430234;1457669568;*;asciilifeform has nfi 
1430235;1457669588;asciilifeform;i've never set foot there and dont expect to
1430236;1457669589;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> no whore ever punched a motherfucking clock << you're kidding, right ?
1430237;1457669594;mircea_popescu;4 an hour, baby.
1430238;1457669607;asciilifeform;waiwut?!
1430239;1457669618;mircea_popescu;most whores alive today, as wel las historically, do punch clock, and also live in a fucking office.
1430240;1457669629;mircea_popescu;it's a large dark damp room, with sheet separated beds.
1430241;1457669642;asciilifeform;client punches clock!
1430242;1457669648;asciilifeform;this is different!
1430243;1457669654;asciilifeform;like lawyer.
1430244;1457669676;mircea_popescu;i think youy maybe haven't seen so many whores at work.
1430245;1457669687;asciilifeform;mebbe not
1430246;1457669704;asciilifeform;i guess the sheet whores are similar to the wwwstack programmers
1430247;1457669721;asciilifeform;many of'em but no nyoozpaper ad
1430248;1457669772;mircea_popescu;take a vacation, go to say costa rica, check out how the girls live.
1430249;1457669832;*;asciilifeform recalls mircea_popescu article on same 
1430250;1457669891;asciilifeform;wish i had such a thing as vacation.
1430251;1457670516;deedbot-;[Qntra] F-35 Software Requiring Hard Reboots While Airborne - http://qntra.net/2016/03/f-35-software-requiring-hard-reboots-while-airborne/
1430252;1457670559;*;BingoBoingo suspects alf may have problem mod6 wrestled with last month, may actually despite protest require time away from keyboard and instead eating delicious beef in southern hemisphere.
1430253;1457670595;asciilifeform;would go right now if could.
1430254;1457670619;asciilifeform;and not come back, if could.
1430255;1457670664;asciilifeform;this hell is not for people
1430256;1457670691;asciilifeform;should be left to mice, fleas, bureaucrats.
1430257;1457670734;BingoBoingo;Honestly I though the swampy aspects of here were bad, but your descriptions of the swamp make me thankful for my present climate
1430258;1457670750;mircea_popescu;;;google argentina weather
1430259;1457670751;gribble;Buenos Aires , Argentina - The Weather Channel - Weather.com: <http://www.weather.com/weather/today/l/Buenos+Aires+Argentina+ARBA0009:1:AR>; Climate of Argentina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Argentina>; Weather in Argentina - Lonely Planet: <http://www.lonelyplanet.com/argentina/weather>
1430260;1457670781;BingoBoingo;AC is not one yet, though I did spread a bunch of BTi this afternoon to get a head start on mosquito control due to the mild winter.
1430261;1457670788;asciilifeform;i have ~24 yrs of stoked hatred for the fuckngswamp
1430262;1457670815;mircea_popescu;wait, you lived there whole lyf ?!
1430263;1457670819;BingoBoingo;get a reciprocating saw and take that hatred out on nature. It will make you feel better
1430264;1457670831;asciilifeform;what nature.
1430265;1457670842;asciilifeform;scarcely anything to saw here.
1430266;1457670854;asciilifeform;shrubs, sickly things.
1430267;1457670866;asciilifeform;soil is red clay.
1430268;1457670870;BingoBoingo;That just means saw feels even more powerful
1430269;1457670898;asciilifeform;i nearly destroyed the chainsaw last time
1430270;1457670903;BingoBoingo;yellow/orange clay here grows giant plants just fine
1430271;1457670911;asciilifeform;it did not like the shrubs.
1430272;1457670942;BingoBoingo;See, this is not a chainsaw job, too much power... it gets confused and tears at self.
1430273;1457670943;cazalla;arvo'
1430274;1457670951;BingoBoingo;arvo' to you too
1430275;1457670968;cazalla;looks more like a shrub BingoBoingo
1430276;1457671007;cazalla;chainsaw wouldn't be sporting though so all good
1430277;1457671019;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You just need cheapest 18 volt reciprocating saw made by TTi and branded with whatever battery system pisses you off least + 5 tpi blade. Instant stress relief.
1430278;1457671073;asciilifeform;not much to saw, again
1430279;1457671095;BingoBoingo;cazalla: Well, didn't have much time
1430280;1457671102;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: But the shrubs!?
1430281;1457671104;asciilifeform;and mosquitoes eat you alive.
1430282;1457671123;cazalla;how about a hand axe? got that wrist strength, was an ezmode job for the few trees around here i axed down
1430283;1457671148;BingoBoingo;BTi werkz for mosquitoes. Not the adults, but generally can be guerilla applied sufficient radius to protect own yard.
1430284;1457671170;BingoBoingo;cazalla: Neighbor's fence on one side. My shed on the other. No room to swing.
1430285;1457671171;asciilifeform;i'd actually rather have moar treez
1430286;1457671176;asciilifeform;than less
1430287;1457671181;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00052491 = 6.7713 BTC [+] {2} 
1430288;1457671284;cazalla;well chopping one down doesn't preclude you from planting a few more
1430289;1457671308;BingoBoingo;Also real trees love hard clay soil
1430290;1457671311;cazalla;that's what i did here.. pissed the non-fruit bearing trees here off, replace with fruit-bearing
1430291;1457671336;asciilifeform;i know a fella who does this
1430292;1457671346;asciilifeform;lives in westvrginia.
1430293;1457671361;asciilifeform;b00lcrap are you alive?
1430294;1457671377;BingoBoingo;aha, him!
1430295;1457671382;asciilifeform;;;later tell b00lcrap come back to us.
1430296;1457671382;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1430297;1457671435;asciilifeform;old friend
1430298;1457671511;asciilifeform;he has trouble getting a reliable net socket.
1430299;1457671535;asciilifeform;tcp over old slave banjo.
1430300;1457671541;asciilifeform;or the like.
1430301;1457671635;kakobrekla;mega map http://g03.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1PtI6GVXXXXbpXXXXq6xXFXXXf/222422998/HTB1PtI6GVXXXXbpXXXXq6xXFXXXf.jpg
1430302;1457671636;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QLptZi )
1430303;1457671650;cazalla;BingoBoingo, got much going on in the garden this spring of yours?
1430304;1457671686;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: l0l wats this, led lamps?
1430305;1457671704;BingoBoingo;cazalla: So far jsut tidying up tree litter out front and clearing feral corner of the back which is pretty much done
1430306;1457671712;kakobrekla;science and technology!
1430307;1457671889;BingoBoingo;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdPQmwqVIAA3xV1.jpg
1430308;1457671890;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1nBFKnN )
1430309;1457671975;kakobrekla;unrelatedly, just ordered 9690sa-8l as per ascii, had to do it from the states because it appears to be a rare thing in europe with price factor of ~5
1430310;1457671982;BingoBoingo;cazalla: What about yout garden this fall?
1430311;1457672031;cazalla;got a second batch of cucumbers in, and put some broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower in last week, snow peas go in next month
1430312;1457672039;BingoBoingo;sweet
1430313;1457672061;cazalla;and enough pickled tomatoes from the summer to last until next spring
1430314;1457672083;BingoBoingo;We had a very mild winter so no die back on the rosebushes and the spring bulb have had leaves up testing the weather since late december
1430315;1457672153;cazalla;down under summer was cooler than usually, at least it felt that way, no 3-4 day heat waves anyway so garden did well
1430316;1457672223;cazalla;re: trump image.. you know that's all they're talking about here in the oz media, trump this, trump that, you'd think he was running for PM of aus
1430317;1457672229;cazalla;(which in a round about way, probably is ha)
1430318;1457672397;kakobrekla;>According to the Transmission website version 2.90 was infected with malware.
1430319;1457672415;kakobrekla;sorta old (4 days)
1430320;1457672418;*;BingoBoingo strongly suspects the outcome is going to be a brokered convention with Trump continuing his run and losing on a third party or independent ticket
1430321;1457672445;BingoBoingo;<kakobrekla> sorta old (4 days) << <kakobrekla> sorta old (4 days)
1430322;1457672454;BingoBoingo;^http://qntra.net/2016/03/ransomware-comes-to-osx-bittorrent-client/
1430323;1457672456;BingoBoingo;sorry
1430324;1457672465;kakobrekla;ah
1430325;1457672471;kakobrekla;my bad.
1430326;1457672479;BingoBoingo;it happens
1430327;1457673621;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12018 @ 0.00052503 = 6.3098 BTC [+] {3} 
1430328;1457675390;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00052284 = 7.2936 BTC [-] {2} 
1430329;1457676610;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9868 @ 0.0005228 = 5.159 BTC [-] {3} 
1430330;1457676671;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2513 @ 0.00052266 = 1.3134 BTC [-]
1430331;1457678074;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00052686 = 4.2149 BTC [+]
1430332;1457680148;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00052317 = 2.3804 BTC [-]
1430333;1457681260;ben_vulpes;phf: whatsat, forest park?
1430334;1457681289;ben_vulpes;also dood wtf you stop in the city, swing through powells, and can't go 2 mi out of the way to get your eyes on my fp and mine on yours?
1430335;1457681396;ben_vulpes;woulda taken all of ten minutes to swing through the office and you'd have left with at least three bottles of literally unprocureable elsewhere dundee wines
1430336;1457681457;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b35
1430337;1457681673;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00052266 = 2.8746 BTC [-] {2} 
1430338;1457682771;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14937 @ 0.00052266 = 7.807 BTC [-]
1430339;1457683076;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00052621 = 4.6043 BTC [+] {5} 
1430340;1457683564;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14124 @ 0.00052266 = 7.382 BTC [-]
1430341;1457685699;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00052266 = 1.1237 BTC [-]
1430342;1457686675;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00052271 = 2.0124 BTC [+] {4} 
1430343;1457690664;shinohai;;;ticker --market all
1430344;1457690670;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 421.9, vol: 6283.83820480 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 421.0, vol: 6771.87737 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 423.58, vol: 18864.3173366 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 425.0, vol: 1.67574497 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.80832, vol: 45131.61010000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 421.521, vol: 3283.97378095 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 426.08604, vol: 67.71487241 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1430345;1457693019;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19885 @ 0.00052384 = 10.4166 BTC [+] {4} 
1430346;1457693263;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3050 @ 0.00052266 = 1.5941 BTC [-]
1430347;1457694240;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00052756 = 5.3811 BTC [+] {3} 
1430348;1457698021;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31050 @ 0.00052795 = 16.3928 BTC [+] {7} 
1430349;1457698265;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00052266 = 1.6464 BTC [-]
1430350;1457698509;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7884 @ 0.00052266 = 4.1207 BTC [-]
1430351;1457698997;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00052961 = 1.7742 BTC [+] {2} 
1430352;1457699528;shinohai;https://i.imgur.com/U2jiFxh.jpg   <<< lel
1430353;1457699529;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMeOxA )
1430354;1457701228;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430316 << they're doing the same in argentina, all the bored she-derps in the press and media generally feel ever so threatened by him.
1430355;1457701228;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 04:57:03; cazalla: re: trump image.. you know that's all they're talking about here in the oz media, trump this, trump that, you'd think he was running for PM of aus
1430356;1457701249;mircea_popescu;they had bought into the ustard liberal nonsense, how is this possibru! church of clinton&hussein, best in world!
1430357;1457701254;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00052266 = 3.0837 BTC [-] {2} 
1430358;1457701262;mircea_popescu;#nounamenos!11
1430359;1457701336;mircea_popescu;oh oops, i think it's spelled #quantanamena or something.
1430360;1457701437;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23826 @ 0.00052228 = 12.4438 BTC [-] {4} 
1430361;1457701441;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430320 << nah, he's winning on third party and buries gop 4evar.
1430362;1457701441;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 05:00:18; *: BingoBoingo strongly suspects the outcome is going to be a brokered convention with Trump continuing his run and losing on a third party or independent ticket
1430363;1457701451;mircea_popescu;best lulz outcome.
1430364;1457701483;mircea_popescu;if you run the data, it'd actually be BETTER for him if they refuse to nominate. helps more than hinders with voters.
1430365;1457701546;mircea_popescu;;;ud fp
1430366;1457701548;gribble;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FP&defid=1022662 | FP. F.P. or Fag Potential is a person whos sexuality is doubtfull; somone who can be straight but in his actions/clothing/talking/mannerisms can act gay. Gaylord: ...
1430367;1457701553;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes ?
1430368;1457701742;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.000522 = 5.5593 BTC [-] {4} 
1430369;1457701754;mircea_popescu;and in other news, the butt mark! http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbafqkYUis1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1430370;1457701757;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1XhQkg6 )
1430371;1457701852;PeterL;hey, some of my work got cited in the WSJ: http://archive.is/BUGGs
1430372;1457701854;assbot;Laundry Detergent From Jessica Alba’s Honest Co. Contains Ingredient It Pledged to Avoid - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1XhQwMp )
1430373;1457701854;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430369   <<< it's surprisingly easy to get these from any docs office on unsecured lan xD
1430374;1457701854;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 13:09:14; mircea_popescu: and in other news, the butt mark! http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbafqkYUis1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1430375;1457701919;mircea_popescu;ajhaha nice PeterL
1430376;1457701929;mircea_popescu;care to make a brief qntra ? it's lulzy enough i think
1430377;1457701932;shinohai;#fail (-_-\)
1430378;1457701965;PeterL;Sure, I could put something together
1430379;1457702018;PeterL;can I add more quotes from me, they only quoted my coworker in the article?
1430380;1457702022;mircea_popescu;which is you, impact analyutical ?
1430381;1457702026;PeterL;yep
1430382;1457702028;mircea_popescu;you can add whatever you want, your article.
1430383;1457702033;PeterL;aha
1430384;1457702061;mircea_popescu;personal authority, it's a thing. you were there, you saw it, as long as you're willing to swear to it, that'\s what it is.
1430385;1457702069;mircea_popescu;who dun like it can swear to something else.
1430386;1457702152;shinohai;worked for the parents who swore maple syrup trumps science.
1430387;1457702167;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430262 << i was moved to this chimp reservation as 9yo, this was in old thread, aha
1430388;1457702167;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 04:33:35; mircea_popescu: wait, you lived there whole lyf ?!
1430389;1457702196;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is unsanitary. "live in most of the world" is CERTAINLY a step in making mps.
1430390;1457702221;asciilifeform;got net pipe soon after, grew up malignantly asocial
1430391;1457702239;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that would need MONEY
1430392;1457702271;mircea_popescu;this may be a crippling impediment in children, but it is not in adults. i had a girl like that, she was ordered to pick up girls in the street every day. and she did. and it went away.
1430393;1457702298;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform money, my dear alf, is by and large a crutch. if you need money to make friends the problem's not the money.
1430394;1457702299;asciilifeform;anyway i'm certainly no mircea_popescu , just a half-man chimeric dr mengele creation.
1430395;1457702339;asciilifeform;gurlz are programmable.
1430396;1457702390;mircea_popescu;and what, your own head is bad chinese fpga and you misplaced teh keys ?
1430397;1457702433;asciilifeform;antifuse.
1430398;1457702440;mircea_popescu;you know, it's funny
1430399;1457702445;mircea_popescu;that's what the gurlz think, also.
1430400;1457702535;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5326 @ 0.00052495 = 2.7959 BTC [+] {3} 
1430401;1457702622;asciilifeform;nobody rechips male nobodies under microscope, harem is an asymmetrical thing
1430402;1457702639;asciilifeform;if your ballz are still attached - yer on your own.
1430403;1457702651;asciilifeform;fwiw.
1430404;1457702723;mircea_popescu;there is that.
1430405;1457702784;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there is an upside to the 24years of kolyma. i dun think anyone alive hates this place, as ~accurately~ and deeply as i do.
1430406;1457702818;asciilifeform;i hate every speck of dust on every pavement tile.
1430407;1457702839;mircea_popescu;lol so what, gonna move into poetry ?
1430408;1457702882;asciilifeform;just to point out.
1430409;1457702979;asciilifeform;!s http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbafqkYUis1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1430410;1457702980;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1XhQkg6 )
1430411;1457702981;assbot;0 results for 'http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbafqkYUis1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2F36.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mbafqkYUis1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1430412;1457702996;asciilifeform;wat?!
1430413;1457703002;asciilifeform;2 just today
1430414;1457703022;asciilifeform;but i was quite certain we had it before, in december maybe
1430415;1457703023;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9963 @ 0.00052405 = 5.2211 BTC [-] {2} 
1430416;1457703086;asciilifeform;i still have nfi how #b-a search actually worx, it certainly is not grep-compat.
1430417;1457703120;mircea_popescu;uh
1430418;1457703125;mircea_popescu;wut ?
1430419;1457703255;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430369
1430420;1457703255;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 13:09:14; mircea_popescu: and in other news, the butt mark! http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbafqkYUis1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1430421;1457703291;mircea_popescu;hm was before ?
1430422;1457703309;asciilifeform;i thought so.
1430423;1457703328;mircea_popescu;hm... i just grepped log ? nope ?
1430424;1457703340;mircea_popescu;are you confusing ukr blondy for another ukr blondy perhaps ?
1430425;1457703404;mircea_popescu;or maybe different teeny slut wore the same buttstring to teh beach.
1430426;1457703440;asciilifeform;with anatomy school backdrop
1430427;1457703448;asciilifeform;definitely had that before
1430428;1457703485;mircea_popescu;ah, that yes.
1430429;1457703496;mircea_popescu;same studio, wadda ya want, new scenography ?
1430430;1457703508;mircea_popescu;new coat of wallpaint costs 10x more than new girls.
1430431;1457703540;asciilifeform;l0l
1430432;1457703556;mircea_popescu;and EVEN SO human reproduction is overly expensive
1430433;1457703559;mircea_popescu;in biologic terms.
1430434;1457703612;asciilifeform;even more expensive if you reintroduce QA as per yesterday thread !111
1430435;1457703634;mircea_popescu;aha.
1430436;1457703671;asciilifeform;'...for your convenience we have packaged the defective 8% of transistors you asked for, separately!' (tm) (r)
1430437;1457703689;mircea_popescu;depends to. the problem here is that high value males are interested in owning females, not interested in producing litter. consequently, western world has fertility crisis.
1430438;1457703709;mircea_popescu;if society were actually sane, i'd prolly reproduce, so the cost issue is iffy.
1430439;1457703751;asciilifeform;~nobody cares to breed muppets for hitler's army.
1430440;1457703763;mircea_popescu;quite.
1430441;1457703794;mircea_popescu;even without shoehorning "hitler" in here, the only sane way reproduction works is that i have life and death power over any offspring until they go on their own.
1430442;1457703811;asciilifeform;aha!
1430443;1457703833;mircea_popescu;then the female drive to reproduce is finally balanced, and i frankly wouldn't care if they want or don't want to get pregnant, make your own choices.
1430444;1457703835;asciilifeform;recall the thread we had when i was at c3.
1430445;1457703842;mircea_popescu;vaguely, which ?
1430446;1457704007;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-04-2015#1106799
1430447;1457704007;assbot;Logged on 22-04-2015 03:59:18; ascii_lander: i would like the ability to shoot them, for example, at any age
1430448;1457704041;mircea_popescu;possibly shooting no good. you wanna kill it, you gotta strangle it. stab it. something.
1430449;1457704045;mircea_popescu;shooting's too clean.
1430450;1457704066;asciilifeform;drown. traditinal!
1430451;1457704083;asciilifeform;!s dumplings
1430452;1457704084;assbot;20 results for 'dumplings' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dumplings
1430453;1457704090;mircea_popescu;i guess.
1430454;1457704118;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2014#509010
1430455;1457704118;assbot;Logged on 16-02-2014 22:04:18; asciilifeform: they pass an old man who says, 'don't drown this fellow. i'll feed him dumplings, he won't have to do any work but to dip them'
1430456;1457704261;asciilifeform;as it is i'd rather eat nagant.
1430457;1457704371;asciilifeform;for offspring you need sane world + economic surplus (at least at the not-being-in-labour-camp level)
1430458;1457704382;mircea_popescu;demographically it's rather lulzy, tho. take europe : it went through three to twelve generations of this negative selection, 0 reproduction from higher value individuals, depending how you count the generations. and, woe of woes : BEFORE, the better tatars came raiding, and raped. so it fixed things, for a century or two.
1430459;1457704392;asciilifeform;or, alternatively, being stray dog who doesnt giveafuq
1430460;1457704393;mircea_popescu;but now, the higher value arabs are ALSO sitting home with the bitches, and sending the runts over.
1430461;1457704403;mircea_popescu;there is ~no way europe doesn't turn into africa.
1430462;1457704461;mircea_popescu;it's like, "take the lowest quartile of this population, let it reproduce with the lower quartile of that population, see what you get"
1430463;1457704465;mircea_popescu;i dunno, flying mice ?
1430464;1457704484;asciilifeform;subsahara aha
1430465;1457704496;asciilifeform;coming soon to an africa near you.
1430466;1457704560;mircea_popescu;that's the thing various derps dun wanna say. sure, numerically, 500mn europe, what does it care about 5mn immigrants.
1430467;1457704584;asciilifeform;5mn snackbat cox tho
1430468;1457704589;asciilifeform;snackbar
1430469;1457704612;mircea_popescu;well, it cares, because that 500mn europe has a 1.x children per woman, and 90% of them are made with idiots, and the 5mn are... also idiots. once you start looking at the actual demographic breakdown, it couldn't really take 50k of the derps.
1430470;1457704636;asciilifeform;incidentally i wonder if tatar rape therapy even works any moar - many (most?) of the prospective 'patients' take steroidal bc pill...
1430471;1457704651;mircea_popescu;wouldn't work, no.
1430472;1457704660;asciilifeform;so then.
1430473;1457704675;mircea_popescu;what, you were under the impression i was proposing solutions ?
1430474;1457704701;mircea_popescu;i'm just explaining why i'd rather kandahar than holland is all.
1430475;1457704746;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-11-2015#1324872 << thread
1430476;1457704746;assbot;Logged on 15-11-2015 16:37:59; mircea_popescu: and em-poor-en.
1430477;1457704766;asciilifeform;nah they do solutions in the solution house.
1430478;1457704778;asciilifeform;on mars.
1430479;1457704795;asciilifeform;here on earth we do: problemz
1430480;1457704795;mircea_popescu;2015 europe had 5mn live births. selected for suckage. add 5mn from outside, idem selected, suddenly it looks like it is.
1430481;1457704819;*;asciilifeform bbl, mounting stake 
1430482;1457704835;mircea_popescu;and mind you, the idiocy is quite infectious. they way they state it is that "eu-28 showed signs of increasing fertility but the trend reversed".
1430483;1457704846;mircea_popescu;irl, "romania, poland et all didn't have the problem - until they joined eu".
1430484;1457704874;mircea_popescu;because yes, romania poland et all did have a sort-of, "i made you an' ima kill you, now go learn that fucking multiplication table". again, until "aquis"
1430485;1457704888;mircea_popescu;they say it in latin, too, as if that makes eau d'idiot something valuable now.
1430486;1457704908;mircea_popescu;the "aquis", the codified idiocy we've slowly coallesced into gallows.
1430487;1457704959;mircea_popescu;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/11414064/How-Europe-is-slowly-dying-despite-an-increasing-world-population.html << great map there. who doesn't have the problem ? oh, the uk, because
1430488;1457704960;assbot;How Europe is slowly dying despite an increasing world population - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWxI4q )
1430489;1457704963;mircea_popescu;!s rotherham
1430490;1457704964;assbot;15 results for 'rotherham' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rotherham
1430491;1457704978;mircea_popescu;and france. because hey, same deal, no press.
1430492;1457705346;mircea_popescu;i thought i had written up irreversible, but apparently not ? anyway,  http://hollywoodabuse.com/monica-belluccis-anal-rape-scene/
1430493;1457705347;assbot;Monica Bellucci’s anal rape scene ... ( http://bit.ly/1XhYXXW )
1430494;1457705401;mircea_popescu;that poor woman, she's done no film without a rape scene in it. if there ever was an actor that actually answered to the higher call of the profession, it's probably her. and yet people will readily ignore the point and focus on anything and everything, "hey, random stupid broad with nothing to say wants us to buy detergent!"
1430495;1457705499;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430155 << i used to be this way too
1430496;1457705499;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 03:25:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430137 << getting out of bed every day is a fucking compromise for me.
1430497;1457705565;nubbins`;i assumed this was "normal" until it just stopped happening one day
1430498;1457705850;PeterL;BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/46717797-1efb-4cde-bd4c-a6674a46e32a/?raw=true
1430499;1457705852;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWzfaS )
1430500;1457707171;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00052545 = 3.8358 BTC [+]
1430501;1457707264;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430365 << mega-l0l!!!
1430502;1457707264;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 13:05:46; mircea_popescu: ;;ud fp
1430503;1457707284;danielpbarron;i assume he meant fingerprint, as in the gpg variety
1430504;1457707431;mircea_popescu;hehe
1430505;1457707887;PeterL;mircea_popescu re:map of birthrates, any explanation for why thailand is so low? the other low places are japan and europe, which have been developed for a while, thailand seems an outlier
1430506;1457707990;mircea_popescu;i'm entirely unsure. ladyboys ?
1430507;1457708046;mircea_popescu;thailand is a pretty interesting case - back in the 90s it seemed very well positioned to become a tech superpower. then... fizzled, somehow. korea won.
1430508;1457708104;PeterL;could also just be where they put the cutoff for the colors, thailand barely makes the bottom category, US and canada are barely into the next color
1430509;1457708106;thestringpuller;eventually birthrate -> 0 and we have children of men?
1430510;1457708636;mircea_popescu;PeterL aha.
1430511;1457708662;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller no, eventually birthrate ->  .5 and we forgot this particular hittite empire ever existed, just like all the other ones.
1430512;1457708673;mircea_popescu;not like it made anything that'd be remembered once it stops paying for the service.
1430513;1457709001;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00052652 = 3.3434 BTC [+] {2} 
1430514;1457709672;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9368 @ 0.00052663 = 4.9335 BTC [+] {2} 
1430515;1457711784;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430497 << stopped how ?
1430516;1457711784;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 14:12:45; nubbins`: i assumed this was "normal" until it just stopped happening one day
1430517;1457711929;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.0005291 = 1.0582 BTC [+]
1430518;1457713027;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00052852 = 2.3519 BTC [-] {2} 
1430519;1457713088;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4497 @ 0.00052736 = 2.3715 BTC [-] {2} 
1430520;1457713207;deedbot-;[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b39
1430521;1457714125;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00052705 = 2.9251 BTC [-]
1430522;1457714674;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00052605 = 2.1568 BTC [-] {2} 
1430523;1457716823;kakobrekla;http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/40505.html
1430524;1457716824;assbot;mjg59 | I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was just as bad as you'd imagine ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWTgxS )
1430525;1457716938;shinohai;why does lightswitch need to know whoami ?
1430526;1457717148;PeterL;shinohai so they can display personalized ads all around you
1430527;1457717163;thestringpuller;haha!
1430528;1457717329;shinohai;adblock for lightswitches and toasters.
1430529;1457717545;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> if you run the data, it'd actually be BETTER for him if they refuse to nominate. helps more than hinders with voters. << yeah, this way he prolly gets 20-27% of general election vote, GOP nominee gets 20-27% of vote, and Clitler gets 51.5%
1430530;1457718172;shinohai;https://twitter.com/Bitstamp/status/708289009873784832
1430531;1457718246;PeterL;In Mich if you are on a primary ballot, you cannot be listed as an independent or other party for the general, I had to write in Gary Johnson in 2012
1430532;1457718762;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00053028 = 4.2953 BTC [+] {2} 
1430533;1457719267;trinque;http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/10/apple-fbi-could-force-us-to-turn-on-iphone-cameras-microphones << check out Apple dropping hints
1430534;1457719269;assbot;FBI could force us to turn on iPhone cameras and microphones, says Apple | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1pkIQyn )
1430535;1457719276;trinque;could my ass
1430536;1457719308;asciilifeform;'nsa could force us to capture packets' -- at&t
1430537;1457719319;trinque;so now we'll have "had the debate" as per BingoBoingo, and the above will be overt SOP
1430538;1457719328;asciilifeform;'farmer could force us to live in own shit' -- pigs
1430539;1457719344;asciilifeform;'shit could force us to eat it' -- fly
1430540;1457719351;trinque;lol
1430541;1457719373;PeterL;asciilifeform re:quiet computer, have you considered having big computer in basement, using a chrombox-like thing as a silent terminal?
1430542;1457719419;asciilifeform;PeterL: i have no basement.
1430543;1457719431;PeterL;well, closet far from chair?
1430544;1457719433;asciilifeform;or i'd have run dvi-over-fiber long ago
1430545;1457719444;PeterL;attic?
1430546;1457719444;asciilifeform;i don't have a proper place for this.
1430547;1457719445;asciilifeform;at all.
1430548;1457719450;asciilifeform;attic is not hermetically sealed.
1430549;1457719462;asciilifeform;very high humidity there, year round.
1430550;1457719482;asciilifeform;and megatonnes of dirt blowing in.
1430551;1457719483;PeterL;I guess this just goes back to thread on "your rent (per sqft) is too damn high"
1430552;1457719514;asciilifeform;this is only half the story
1430553;1457719521;asciilifeform;in places where it is lower, the pay is ALSO lowe.
1430554;1457719522;asciilifeform;r
1430555;1457719568;asciilifeform;and outside of MAJOR population centers, there is ZERO work for folks like me.
1430556;1457719673;asciilifeform;but to go back to the question, it is a ludicrous 'dirigible' solution
1430557;1457719676;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00053052 = 6.3397 BTC [+] {2} 
1430558;1457719680;asciilifeform;a machined copper heat sink might be costly,
1430559;1457719685;asciilifeform;but at least it would not be a RECURRING cost.
1430560;1457719689;asciilifeform;INTO ETERNITY
1430561;1457719691;asciilifeform;wtf.
1430562;1457719713;asciilifeform;why the fuck would i rent a gigantic mansion just to silence computer.
1430563;1457719719;asciilifeform;why not put it in an airplane then.
1430564;1457719812;asciilifeform;yes, possibly mircea_popescu's pc is in orbit.
1430565;1457719819;asciilifeform;and the terminal - is kept in a slavegurl's arse.
1430566;1457719826;asciilifeform;but this is not a useful recipe to me.
1430567;1457719847;jurov;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429762 whole discussion reminded me of shit i heard several times "this linux admin we had was always tinkering with the server and there was always something broken. we switched to windows server with IIS and all is swell now!"
1430568;1457719847;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 00:10:56; asciilifeform: no one wants to LIVE badly enough
1430569;1457719890;asciilifeform;why not put out their eyes.
1430570;1457719895;asciilifeform;so they can see even less broken !
1430571;1457719906;asciilifeform;!s room would be empty
1430572;1457719907;assbot;3 results for 'room would be empty' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=room+would+be+empty
1430573;1457720038;deedbot-;[Qntra] "Honest" Soap Scandal Deepens: A Chemist Speaks - http://qntra.net/2016/03/honest-soap-scandal-deepens-a-chemist-speaks/
1430574;1457720713;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052583 = 2.4188 BTC [-] {2} 
1430575;1457720946;jurov;I don't like laureate-contining stuff because it's hard to wash off.
1430576;1457721039;BingoBoingo;I'm indifferent to it
1430577;1457721056;jurov;And when i do repeat and wash it off, the skin is left completely stripped of fat film, which is not healthy.
1430578;1457721123;BingoBoingo;Aha, this is why it can be an irritant
1430579;1457721128;jurov;well, i know people "indifferent to it" the developed hand eczemas after 20y of using it.
1430580;1457721135;jurov;*then
1430581;1457721190;jurov;oh, it is irritant if you get it into the eyes
1430582;1457721191;BingoBoingo;Skin's a tricky thing
1430583;1457721208;BingoBoingo;But yeah, eyes really need their film
1430584;1457721445;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1996 @ 0.00052583 = 1.0496 BTC [-]
1430585;1457721563;*;BingoBoingo doesn't understand what was so wrong about lye soap
1430586;1457721719;asciilifeform;so ~that's~ what was in evil soap
1430587;1457721729;asciilifeform;i have a list of soaps that ughh won'twashoff
1430588;1457721734;asciilifeform;not to ever buy.
1430589;1457721874;BingoBoingo;Yes, it is in all of the evil soaps
1430590;1457721921;asciilifeform;at least room temperature cheese one will never buy by chance.
1430591;1457722355;BingoBoingo;But detergent pretending to be honest soap hides well
1430592;1457722361;BingoBoingo;until wet
1430593;1457722490;BingoBoingo;!up pigeons
1430594;1457722604;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00052582 = 5.6789 BTC [-] {3} 
1430595;1457722970;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.0005263 = 4.6578 BTC [+]
1430596;1457723361;BingoBoingo;Won a "comedy hack day" prize https://archive.is/9ZwAW
1430597;1457723363;assbot;New App Splits Meal Bills So White Males Pay Extra for Their Privilege | Alternet ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH5pcg )
1430598;1457723426;pete_dushenski;l0l
1430599;1457723464;pete_dushenski;i guess from now on massa is just gonna pick up the tab for his slaves
1430600;1457723601;pete_dushenski;https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600980/a-bitcoin-style-currency-for-central-banks/ << prb-fork contender
1430601;1457723603;assbot;A Bitcoin-Style Currency for Central Banks ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH6gKf )
1430602;1457723744;pete_dushenski;http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/G.Danezis/papers/ndss16currencies.pdf << related lolpaper
1430603;1457723748;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QN7tO4 )
1430604;1457723759;fluffypony;https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/47z1xd/in_the_future_will_we_be_using_ethereumlike/d0gf65j
1430605;1457723761;assbot;vbuterin comments on In the future, will we be using Ethereum-like (& slock.it like) tech to document consensual sexual intercourse? ... ( http://bit.ly/1QN7uln )
1430606;1457723829;pete_dushenski;da fuck is '$xxx' gonna do to raise a child ?
1430607;1457723893;jurov;didn't he go further? like, upload your genome to eth, and let it procreate
1430608;1457723895;fluffypony;I have no words
1430609;1457723972;trinque;"A small collection of third-party organizations would be chosen by the central bank to process new transactions and submit them for inclusion in the central ledger." << >> http://biblehub.com/revelation/13-16.htm
1430610;1457723973;assbot;Revelation 13:16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH7Co9 )
1430611;1457723976;trinque;not that I'm religious.
1430612;1457724167;pete_dushenski;like ash wednesday, every day
1430613;1457724363;pete_dushenski;"Billionaire investor and Palantir co-founder Peter Thiel tells Fortune that he thinks that Palantir's data software can actually help end ubiquitous surveillance by showing agencies like the NSA exactly who's up to no good, so they can leave everybody else alone." << fuck thiel with alf's telephone pole-sized stake. who is dumb enough to believe that this is how ~anything~ works ?
1430614;1457724420;pete_dushenski;specifically, that the nsa doesn't leave ~everyone alone as a matter of practical necessity ?
1430615;1457724624;thestringpuller;this ties into Big Data "alchemist's AI" discussion
1430616;1457724706;pete_dushenski;and, hell, alphago
1430617;1457724738;thestringpuller;meh. being a huge fan of AI, I understand the harware yet exists to create more formative models of "intelligence"
1430618;1457724773;thestringpuller;the next best thing is data mining and running it through "machine learning" to create models.
1430619;1457724795;thestringpuller;Pure unsupervised learning I don't think is possible which I guess ascii and I both yearn for...
1430620;1457725044;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7792 @ 0.00052898 = 4.1218 BTC [+] {4} 
1430621;1457725049;pete_dushenski;http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-blockchain-summit-with-richard-branson-on-necker-island << for enteblockchainologists only
1430622;1457725050;assbot;My Wet and Wild Bitcoin Weekend On Richard Branson's Island Refuge | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1YHbuFI )
1430623;1457725105;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7876 @ 0.0005257 = 4.1404 BTC [-] {2} 
1430624;1457725177;asciilifeform;wats with all the redditesque crud.
1430625;1457725178;asciilifeform;snore.
1430626;1457725195;*;asciilifeform can't be bothered to read any
1430627;1457725207;pete_dushenski;well, you have a stake to sit on, neh ?
1430628;1457725249;pete_dushenski;reddit is like a pseudo-stake for people who don't otherwise have one, but care to dip their toes in now and again
1430629;1457725269;asciilifeform;that would make sense if it paid people
1430630;1457725295;pete_dushenski;people don't need to be paid. pee-ple. not redditards, now.
1430631;1457725337;pete_dushenski;or people need to be paid but it's not stake-bad
1430632;1457725441;asciilifeform;what i mean is, i shovel boring crud for money.
1430633;1457725463;asciilifeform;but i can't fathom why to do it voluntarily.
1430634;1457726447;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4324 @ 0.00053038 = 2.2934 BTC [+]
1430635;1457726830;thestringpuller;"we should have wine at work every friday" - the girls in my department
1430636;1457726923;trinque;sounds like a great tradition in the making
1430637;1457727179;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11968 @ 0.00052545 = 6.2886 BTC [-]
1430638;1457727381;jurov;thestringpuller: propose topless days
1430639;1457727439;pete_dushenski;for the men only
1430640;1457727471;jurov;!t m x.eur
1430641;1457727471;assbot;[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00263 / 0.00295359 / 0.00304264 (264 shares, 0.78 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00280379 / 0.00370358 (3016 shares, 8.46 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00275579 / 0.00370358 (11971 shares, 32.99 BTC)
1430642;1457727494;jurov;;;calc 1/0.00295359
1430643;1457727494;gribble;338.571027123
1430644;1457727510;jurov;should i call this bull or bear?
1430645;1457727522;pete_dushenski;depends how hairy
1430646;1457727525;jurov;or call davout?
1430647;1457727536;asciilifeform;<+jurov> should i call this bull or bear? << boar.
1430648;1457727575;jurov;;;ticker --currency eur --market bitcoin-central
1430649;1457727576;gribble;Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR ticker | Best bid: 376.79, Best ask: 380.99, Bid-ask spread: 4.20000, Last trade: 381.0, 24 hour volume: 39.71691309, 24 hour low: 371.4, 24 hour high: 383.98, 24 hour vwap: 379.89636294
1430650;1457727587;jurov;^ just to make sense to logreaders
1430651;1457727800;jurov;http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-10/incredible-story-how-hackers-stole-100-million-new-york-fed << what should alf be doing instead
1430652;1457727801;assbot;The Incredible Story Of How Hackers Stole $100 Million From The New York Fed | Zero Hedge ... ( http://bit.ly/1RVodlf )
1430653;1457727835;jurov;he would surely not misspell "foundation" as "fandation"
1430654;1457727940;jurov;Well, as it turns out, Bangladesh doesn't agree that the Fed isn't ultimately culpable. "We kept money with the Federal Reserve Bank and irregularities must be with the people who handle the funds there," Finance Minister Abul Maal Abdul Muhith said on Wednesday.
1430655;1457727949;jurov;irregularities ftw!
1430656;1457728107;jurov;like, some irregularities must have been with mircea_popescu when he went to experiment with bitbet funds
1430657;1457728357;asciilifeform;jurov: idiotic article. as if nobodies could move 100m wherever.
1430658;1457728366;BingoBoingo;http://i.imgur.com/a7wNwql.png
1430659;1457728368;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UZ4FPG )
1430660;1457728441;jurov;asciilifeform: you don't like to see the beast bleed?
1430661;1457728466;jurov;and why do you think this did not happen?
1430662;1457728481;asciilifeform;jurov: the beast is not bleeding. it moved coin from its left pocket to right.
1430663;1457728503;asciilifeform;let's even assume, charitably , that there WAS a theft.
1430664;1457728507;asciilifeform;instead of simple launder by usg.
1430665;1457728511;BingoBoingo;Maybe beast did bleed, but alf is just in wrong swamp to take delivery of blood?
1430666;1457728515;asciilifeform;if you HAVE A PLACE TO PUT stolen electric fiat,
1430667;1457728519;asciilifeform;YOU ARE WELL CONNECTED.
1430668;1457728535;asciilifeform;what part of this is hard to understand ?
1430669;1457728575;jurov;well, the image mircea projects is such that he *would* be able to provide you with account numbers on asking
1430670;1457728656;jurov;so, imo worth trying
1430671;1457728675;asciilifeform;fiat isn't btc, nobody walks away with irretrievable 100m.
1430672;1457728692;asciilifeform;nor is it ever a permanent mystery which door to break down.
1430673;1457728706;jurov;you don't need 100m, i hope
1430674;1457728717;asciilifeform;nor is any organization ever seriously pwned except via substantial humint component.
1430675;1457728762;jurov;such as.. guessing the right email addresses when sending transfer requests?
1430676;1457728773;asciilifeform;jurov: if i knew how to rob hitler, i wouldn't be poor.
1430677;1457728789;asciilifeform;what, you think my conscience would torture me ?
1430678;1457728805;jurov;i have no idea what to think
1430679;1457728811;jurov;wrt you
1430680;1457728859;jurov;you seem to be in war, but with utterly impenetrable and undefinable entity
1430681;1457728861;asciilifeform;why not clean out the fuhrer's pockets yourself, if you think you know how...
1430682;1457728896;jurov;i am not in war
1430683;1457728932;trinque;eh lacking the infrastructure to protect oneself this is not a heist worth pulling
1430684;1457728942;trinque;and that's not something you JIT after having done so
1430685;1457728971;asciilifeform;jurov: you may not be interested in the war, but, to borrow from trotsky, 'the war is quite interested in you'
1430686;1457729069;jurov;i am interested but so far i have not noticed anything beyond derping noise
1430687;1457729179;asciilifeform;...?
1430688;1457729192;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00052946 = 3.7062 BTC [+]
1430689;1457729226;jurov;i have not seen anything that can't be explained by gross incompetence
1430690;1457729325;asciilifeform;srsly?!
1430691;1457729331;jurov;srsly.
1430692;1457729331;asciilifeform;the phork warz, mean nothing to jurov  ?
1430693;1457729341;asciilifeform;hearn is just an incompetent ?
1430694;1457729347;asciilifeform;gavin meant well?!
1430695;1457729350;asciilifeform;what is this.
1430696;1457729361;trinque;he just had lunch buddies at the cia
1430697;1457729415;jurov;they are just another derps
1430698;1457729493;asciilifeform;j. dimon is also an innocent fool?
1430699;1457729496;asciilifeform;jurov is on lsd ?
1430700;1457729516;jurov;who is dimon?
1430701;1457729528;asciilifeform;!s dimon
1430702;1457729528;assbot;22 results for 'dimon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dimon
1430703;1457729651;jurov;what about genjix? he was on TV, must be teh enemy!!!
1430704;1457729678;asciilifeform;and waterfall never happened, aha
1430705;1457729688;asciilifeform;and no one deletes tmsr material from reddit, and hn
1430706;1457729697;asciilifeform;and no one stole mircea_popescu's servers.
1430707;1457729704;asciilifeform;and no one power cycled phuctor.
1430708;1457729705;asciilifeform;etc.
1430709;1457729708;asciilifeform;ahahahaha.
1430710;1457729717;asciilifeform;jurov talk to your lsd supplier plox.
1430711;1457729724;asciilifeform;he is giving you impure material.
1430712;1457729864;asciilifeform;and of course nobody http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-02-2016#1396681
1430713;1457729864;assbot;Logged on 04-02-2016 20:42:54; ascii_butugychag: or the derp who called me on the disconnected phone?
1430714;1457729896;asciilifeform;and nobody ddosed qntra, trilema
1430715;1457729936;asciilifeform;and nobody http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you
1430716;1457729938;assbot;On how the factored 4096 RSA keys story was handled, and what it means to you. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UZ9Gbe )
1430717;1457729939;asciilifeform;etc.
1430718;1457729972;jurov;this yes. but not gavin and hearn
1430719;1457729973;asciilifeform;i suppose it was all incompetence.
1430720;1457730025;asciilifeform;if incompetence is indistinguishable from wrecking, it ~IS~ wrecking.
1430721;1457730034;asciilifeform;and is to be dealt with in exactly same way.
1430722;1457730046;asciilifeform;we had this thread re: ninjashogun.
1430723;1457730595;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10831 @ 0.00053072 = 5.7482 BTC [+] {3} 
1430724;1457730658;trinque;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-08-2015#1249399
1430725;1457730658;assbot;Logged on 23-08-2015 05:06:06; trinque: I demand for this to never have happened at once!
1430726;1457730905;asciilifeform;;;seen ninjashogun
1430727;1457730905;gribble;ninjashogun was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 18 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <ninjashogun> I am only interested in building real-world businesses with real income streams, not taking bitcoin investments for something and running off iwth it.  (Not referencing anyone here, this was a recent case with Moolah, for example.  Or at least accusation.)
1430728;1457730909;asciilifeform;;;seen strup`fndr
1430729;1457730909;gribble;I have not seen strup`fndr.
1430730;1457730935;asciilifeform;;;seen strup
1430731;1457730935;gribble;I have not seen strup.
1430732;1457730949;asciilifeform;;;seen strp
1430733;1457730949;gribble;strp was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 23 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 6 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <strp> no thanks, thickasthieves.  I don't have to justify talking with anyone else I talk with.
1430734;1457730989;asciilifeform;frolicking with the spmalkyries in spmalhalla, isn't he.
1430735;1457731041;asciilifeform;;;seen decimation
1430736;1457731041;gribble;decimation was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 30 weeks, 6 days, 17 hours, 58 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <decimation> I enjoyed my time here, learned much, had many lolz.  I do not wish to cause drama or be an impediment to improving bitcoin.  Even though I presently have L2 rating from a few people, I am not going impose on their good grace by remaining.  God bless all of you.
1430737;1457731053;asciilifeform;;;seen polarbeard
1430738;1457731054;gribble;polarbeard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 36 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <polarbeard> cpp is full of it
1430739;1457731079;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430515 << retired
1430740;1457731079;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 15:56:24; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430497 << stopped how ?
1430741;1457731166;asciilifeform;so turns out nubbins` has more in common with mircea_popescu than with asciilifeform
1430742;1457731183;jurov;asciilifeform: since you nicely ennumerated the activity, how would the adacoin or your refusal to pay taxes from btc sale help against these?
1430743;1457731185;nubbins`;my father retired, picked up two new part-time jobs
1430744;1457731199;jurov;against meddling with servers and media?
1430745;1457731220;asciilifeform;jurov: having 'key servers' or whatever central point of failure invites hitler.
1430746;1457731231;nubbins`;asciilifeform mircea_popescu has a post-secondary education?!
1430747;1457731260;asciilifeform;nubbins`: iirc he did.
1430748;1457731267;nubbins`;imagine
1430749;1457731272;asciilifeform;philosophy, iirc
1430750;1457731277;nubbins`;lol.
1430751;1457731281;asciilifeform;but earlier he ran away from maths
1430752;1457731283;nubbins`;makes sense
1430753;1457731286;nubbins`;also makes sense
1430754;1457731293;asciilifeform;it is in the logz
1430755;1457731325;nubbins`;if cannot grok numbers, try grokking universe
1430756;1457731344;nubbins`;mathematics is an entirely philosophical pursuit fwiw
1430757;1457731375;asciilifeform;iirc he grokked just fine, but decided he'd rather do business.
1430758;1457731388;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14175 @ 0.00052946 = 7.5051 BTC [-] {2} 
1430759;1457731628;*;nubbins` just finished setting up 6-colour job on the press
1430760;1457731998;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00053073 = 4.5908 BTC [+]
1430761;1457732364;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13567 @ 0.00052944 = 7.1829 BTC [-] {2} 
1430762;1457732462;asciilifeform;nubbins`: neato
1430763;1457732608;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4356 @ 0.0005256 = 2.2895 BTC [-] {4} 
1430764;1457733892;shinohai;ok #b-a I need a wireless router, what choose?
1430765;1457733907;asciilifeform;shinohai: make it yourself
1430766;1457733930;asciilifeform;out of whatever fanless box + wireless nic
1430767;1457733986;*;shinohai doesn't have a spare nic :/
1430768;1457733987;jurov;i bought miniitx celeron + pci wifi card + old hdd and found out that with 8G RAM it can be used for *anything*
1430769;1457734006;jurov;there's gigabyte board with 2 ports
1430770;1457734013;jurov;ethernet
1430771;1457734131;asciilifeform;i like 'pcengines'
1430772;1457734133;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15077 @ 0.00052862 = 7.97 BTC [+] {2} 
1430773;1457734140;asciilifeform;amd g-series.
1430774;1457734150;asciilifeform;single-board pancake thing.
1430775;1457734278;BingoBoingo;If you're quarentining the wireless network to play with toys on the discontinued "airrouter HP" will offer rather good range at cheapish price. Just do srs networking on something else.
1430776;1457734345;BingoBoingo;But the alf solution + quality antenna is the right way to do it.
1430777;1457734363;shinohai;so dedi box it is
1430778;1457734743;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15073 @ 0.00052879 = 7.9705 BTC [+]
1430779;1457734749;BingoBoingo;"airrouter" in one of the unfortunate ubiquiti things that does not quite have the run whatever you want ability possessed by "edgerouter lite" but for toy purposes It is hard to beat the range it offers for anything close to its price.
1430780;1457734793;shinohai;i got this old cantenna here too.
1430781;1457734810;shinohai;so could make a repeater
1430782;1457734894;*;BingoBoingo has an airrouter not the HP version serving some toys here. Playing with iptables over ssh is nice, but can not run whole set of AWS blocker rules on its own without crashing.
1430783;1457735039;shinohai;what firmware ?
1430784;1457735097;BingoBoingo;shinohai: "airos"
1430785;1457735144;shinohai;im using dd-wrt now :/
1430786;1457735315;jurov;BingoBoingo: what, iptables crashes on your rules?
1430787;1457735325;shinohai;this is like 0.25 from china http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Airrouter-Ethernet-Wireless-Broadband/dp/B00V5EJS0I
1430788;1457735327;assbot;Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Airrouter Ar. Hp Ieee 802.11N Ethernet Wireless Router . 2.40 Ghz Ism Band . 1 X Antenna1 X External) . 656.2 Ft Indoor Range . 150 Mbps Wireless Speed . 4 X Network Port . 1 X Broadband Port . Usb . Fast Ethernet . No Desktop "Product Type: Wireless Devices/Wireless Routers": C ... ( http://bit.ly/21ndYcf )
1430789;1457735505;jurov;in other news, http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/380367.jpg
1430790;1457735506;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21neaYL )
1430791;1457735740;BingoBoingo;jurov: It does on chintzy $30 wireless router when using all the AWS blocking rules generated by alf script
1430792;1457735774;BingoBoingo;shinohai: It can be had cheaper
1430793;1457735800;shinohai;im in the middle of a build, still shopping around
1430794;1457735810;BingoBoingo;~750 lines of iptables rules crashes it. ~100 does not.
1430795;1457735860;BingoBoingo;Of all things, 'top' manages to crash it
1430796;1457735875;BingoBoingo;but left in place to route it works
1430797;1457735963;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00053073 = 4.3785 BTC [+]
1430798;1457736021;BingoBoingo;or mebbe it is the combination of 'top' and keeping an ssh tunnel open.
1430799;1457736390;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00053073 = 4.9889 BTC [+]
1430800;1457736865;jurov;BingoBoingo:looking at banhammer, you actually only need lines marked as EC2 as these are the evil VPSes. and changing REJECT to DROP may help with resource usage, too
1430801;1457736930;BingoBoingo;jurov: Twas set as drop. Problem though may actually have been RAM contrainsts. Anyways twas a stress test. Do actual blocking elsewhere.
1430802;1457736930;jurov;btw, i searched via logs and found that https://archive.is/http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-December/000187.html is not archived at archive.is
1430803;1457736931;assbot;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-December/000187.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1plaZp3 )
1430804;1457736944;BingoBoingo;interesting
1430805;1457736990;jurov;prolly nobody used it yet.. i now archived it
1430806;1457737122;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7679 @ 0.00052545 = 4.0349 BTC [-] {2} 
1430807;1457737425;jurov;and i'd try to use raw iptables table
1430808;1457737742;BingoBoingo;http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2016/03/08/up-to-speed-on-meldonium
1430809;1457737745;assbot;Up to Speed on Meldonium  |  In the Pipeline ... ( http://bit.ly/1plcJyK )
1430810;1457738266;asciilifeform;lulzy, https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-recovers-stolen-indian-artifacts-major-auction-house-ahead-asia-week-new-york
1430811;1457738267;assbot;ICE recovers stolen Indian artifacts from major auction house ahead of Asia Week New York | ICE ... ( http://bit.ly/1pdLO74 )
1430812;1457738270;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?
1430813;1457738464;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00052456 = 11.5403 BTC [-] {8} 
1430814;1457738952;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00052764 = 5.9096 BTC [+]
1430815;1457738988;BingoBoingo;lemme take a look
1430816;1457739501;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00052764 = 1.794 BTC [+]
1430817;1457739630;mircea_popescu;jesus freenode is fucking useless is it.
1430818;1457739687;kakobrekla;http://i.imgur.com/n2sHG8E.png
1430819;1457739687;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QNBVI5 )
1430820;1457739796;shinohai;communism at it's finest.
1430821;1457739937;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'A huge difference: In the former Soviet block an academic scientist published in order to satisfy the party commissars of his/her proper and productive use of funds dispensed by the government. In western countries an academic scientist publishes in order to demonstrate to grant review committee members his/her proper and productive use of funds dispensed by government-funded gr
1430822;1457739941;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430529 <<< i would be very surprised if clinton gets 30%.
1430823;1457739941;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 17:32:25; BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> if you run the data, it'd actually be BETTER for him if they refuse to nominate. helps more than hinders with voters. << yeah, this way he prolly gets 20-27% of general election vote, GOP nominee gets 20-27% of vote, and Clitler gets 51.5%
1430824;1457739943;asciilifeform;ant agencies. '
1430825;1457739946;asciilifeform;lel
1430826;1457739948;mircea_popescu;20-something's written on her foreheads.
1430827;1457739958;asciilifeform;i will be very surprised if clitler doesn't get 90%.
1430828;1457739965;asciilifeform;by dieboldian fiat, naturally
1430829;1457739994;asciilifeform;but i like surprises.
1430830;1457739998;mircea_popescu;this is how teenagers end up shaving their head.
1430831;1457740027;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: The US major socialist party, as designated by qntra, gets that designation because its affliated voters actually vote the party line
1430832;1457740031;asciilifeform;i thought it was so the electrodes stick
1430833;1457740067;mircea_popescu;used to. currently, the bottom fell out, and the local nigglets are pissed off.
1430834;1457740075;BingoBoingo;permitted 3rd party and independent candidates nearly always bleed voters from US minor socialist party
1430835;1457740083;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430537 << methinks you may be on to something.
1430836;1457740083;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 18:01:59; trinque: so now we'll have "had the debate" as per BingoBoingo, and the above will be overt SOP
1430837;1457740110;mircea_popescu;problem being that every tard out there already "feels like he's secretly in a movie", so this, much like gestapo stuff generally, is well desired by the genpop.
1430838;1457740167;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'll have to think of an axis on which to turn artifact news.
1430839;1457740224;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> by dieboldian fiat, naturally << The beauty of the diebold rigging is the 53% mandate makes things look contested while still ensuring safety for the most scaled lizards
1430840;1457740290;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: electoral reprogramming is not to prevent the mythical 'politican does untoward thing' but rather the milder catastrophe of 'SAYS untoward thing'
1430841;1457740290;mircea_popescu;http://qntra.net/2016/03/honest-soap-scandal-deepens-a-chemist-speaks/ << this is not so bad as a starter peterl but a) why do you discuss yourself in the 3rd person and b) why is it so aside ?
1430842;1457740291;assbot;"Honest" Soap Scandal Deepens: A Chemist Speaks | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QKZrnM )
1430843;1457740338;mircea_popescu;think about yourself as a reader. then read it. is the piece all it could have been ?
1430844;1457740359;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: a trump would be electable if he could be certain of not picking up the microphone and prattling about rothchildren
1430845;1457740380;asciilifeform;*if they could be certain of him not
1430846;1457740399;mircea_popescu;i find this proposition that there actually exists a us elite utterly hysterical.
1430847;1457740403;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You're confusing Trump the character and Trump the actor
1430848;1457740423;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there is not a us elite and has not been since... rockfeller ?
1430849;1457740427;asciilifeform;but there is elite.
1430850;1457740497;asciilifeform;'"With high demand from all corners of the globe, collectors must be certain of provenance before purchasing. I urge dealers and auction houses to take every necessary precaution to avoid facilitating the sale of cultural heritage stolen from other civilizations. If a provenance is in doubt, report it to law enforcement authorities."'
1430851;1457740506;asciilifeform;^ translation: only APPROVED thieves may steal.
1430852;1457740536;asciilifeform;'The investigation has also identified Subhash Kapoor, who is currently in custody in India awaiting trial for allegedly looting tens of millions of dollars' worth of rare antiquities from several nations. The trails of looted artifacts have been traced all around the world. Within the past twelve months, four domestic museums and one major collector have partnered with HSI to surrender illic
1430853;1457740542;asciilifeform;it cultural property stemming from Kapoor.'
1430854;1457740573;asciilifeform;^ translation: a thief's license has been cancelled by hitler, he is to be dekulakized.
1430855;1457740611;BingoBoingo;aha
1430856;1457740643;asciilifeform;'Since 2007, more than 8,000 artifacts have been returned to 30 countries, including paintings from France, Germany, Poland and Austria ...' << translation: usg muppet regimes need to eat, why not subsidize them cheaply by helping them to sell their art sphincter virginity multiple times
1430857;1457740673;asciilifeform;france sells, usg knocks buyer on the head, sends $rembrandt back... rinse, repeat.
1430858;1457740680;mircea_popescu;heh
1430859;1457740690;mircea_popescu;how exactly were 8000 items stolen from n countries ?
1430860;1457740711;asciilifeform;by being peacefully sold to unsuspecting sacrificial goats ?
1430861;1457740715;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430635 << nude fridays, too.
1430862;1457740715;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 20:07:10; thestringpuller: "we should have wine at work every friday" - the girls in my department
1430863;1457740726;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we have booze here at $rupturefarm
1430864;1457740731;asciilifeform;it dun help.
1430865;1457740748;asciilifeform;i open various cabinets in search of office supplies and keep finding liquor.
1430866;1457740773;mircea_popescu;yeah wel lyou don't work at webstack firm.
1430867;1457740791;asciilifeform;what do they have there? heroin ?
1430868;1457740797;mircea_popescu;sluts.
1430869;1457740867;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430662 << he's like an impenetrable wall.
1430870;1457740867;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 20:34:41; asciilifeform: jurov: the beast is not bleeding. it moved coin from its left pocket to right.
1430871;1457740990;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430671 << let me generally say that you're about in the position of afghan boy who grew up in village of men and goats opining about cunts. your ideas about "the usg", while no doubt meaningful and coherent in your own perspective, are pure metaphysics.
1430872;1457740990;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 20:37:55; asciilifeform: fiat isn't btc, nobody walks away with irretrievable 100m.
1430873;1457741022;asciilifeform;so show me the light, mircea_popescu : swift is a reversible fiat thing. no?
1430874;1457741039;mircea_popescu;i'm thoroughly exhausted all patience trying to engage the thing, so let's just let you live in your own world and mark once and forever that i lend it exactly the aforementioned credence.
1430875;1457741047;asciilifeform;and so if it turns out that 100m moved from a to b, and b stole, can just as easily return to a by hitlerian decree ?
1430876;1457741051;mircea_popescu;i'm not engaging that particular insanity any further.
1430877;1457741107;asciilifeform;'you are wrong and your picture of universe is retarded but i won't say why' ?
1430878;1457741116;asciilifeform;mega-argument.
1430879;1457741133;mircea_popescu;"you are lacan. your picture of the universe is complete and unrelated to any extant universe. have fun with it."
1430880;1457741155;mircea_popescu;and note that this is no argument ; this is a judgement.
1430881;1457741163;asciilifeform;so the reversibility of swift and it having master control panel is not a fact of the universe we live in ?
1430882;1457741166;mircea_popescu;arguments are neither possible nor interesting.
1430883;1457741289;*;asciilifeform would liek to visit mircea_popescu's world but it doesn't sell tickets afaik.
1430884;1457741326;mircea_popescu;well, like is like, can is can.
1430885;1457741342;asciilifeform;..?
1430886;1457741358;mircea_popescu;the path to mp world starts by now fucking having an opinion about how swift works when you've sent a grand total of... 0 ? 10 ? what is it ?
1430887;1457741382;mircea_popescu;and no, "ach" bs is not swift.
1430888;1457741384;asciilifeform;i will readily admit that i have not one iota of a clue re: how it works, other than it being not-bitcoin.
1430889;1457741405;asciilifeform;and thereby subject to retconning if 'international komyooonity' wills it
1430890;1457741410;mircea_popescu;so you're engaging in intricate description of an item you've never seen. you need explanation of why this is psychotic ?
1430891;1457741428;asciilifeform;not intricate, but particular hypothesis
1430892;1457741435;mircea_popescu;hypothesis ?
1430893;1457741453;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7817 @ 0.00052764 = 4.1246 BTC [+]
1430894;1457741457;asciilifeform;i.e. that if zimbabwe gets a swift of x, and usg decides that this ought not have happened, it can be reversed.
1430895;1457741482;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu will tell me that this is not so ?
1430896;1457741487;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry, the name for what you put out is not "hypothesis", it's justification.
1430897;1457741493;asciilifeform;well is it true ?
1430898;1457741504;mircea_popescu;there is no possibility of truth in your system.
1430899;1457741522;mircea_popescu;it can not be true or false. as long as it's what you need to believe, it'll be there.
1430900;1457741522;asciilifeform;is it because i cannot access the priors ?
1430901;1457741535;mircea_popescu;because you aren't in control of the cognitive process that involves it.
1430902;1457741562;asciilifeform;actually i am ready to believe that it is - or is not - true, if it could be anchored to actual priors that i have.
1430903;1457741589;mircea_popescu;mno. you are ready to either accept it as a valid justification, or else accept it as a justification that needs futher justification.
1430904;1457741597;asciilifeform;of what ?
1430905;1457741606;mircea_popescu;of nothing.
1430906;1457741619;mircea_popescu;justification, it's a psych term of art.
1430907;1457741635;asciilifeform;but justification is ~of~ something, no ?
1430908;1457741643;mircea_popescu;not exactly.
1430909;1457741651;mircea_popescu;justification is the verbiage produced in response to inquiry.
1430910;1457741654;asciilifeform;e.g., of krishna existing, or whatnot
1430911;1457741671;mircea_popescu;"why did you steal ?" "i had to i didnt really steal it wasn't me"|
1430912;1457741684;asciilifeform;so then it is of being caught with the goods, no ?
1430913;1457741692;mircea_popescu;"but you did take the thing and put it up your ass" "yes but no it wasn't a thing not my ass not me"
1430914;1457741693;asciilifeform;the thief's justification is ~of~ something
1430915;1457741698;mircea_popescu;mno.
1430916;1457741747;mircea_popescu;it's the response to the question ; it only exists with the question, dies with the last echo of the question. it has no factual basis.
1430917;1457741794;asciilifeform;and if i ask a fella what he had for dinner, his reponse also dies with the question, no ?
1430918;1457741818;mircea_popescu;mno. the policeman looks at the item, and asks question. the psychotic thief looks AT THE POLICEMAN and "answers" question.
1430919;1457741831;mircea_popescu;there's no meeting there, one's lost in his own mind.
1430920;1457741855;asciilifeform;but i think i know what mircea_popescu was trying to explain to me, that my notion of how swift works is static in disconnected antenna plug ?
1430921;1457741895;mircea_popescu;your "notion of how swift works" has absolutely nothing to do with swift, working or notions, and everything to do with you justifying your own theft which happened to touch of swift so now yhou have a "hypothesis" about that.
1430922;1457741909;mircea_popescu;had it touched elephants, you'd have a justification about elephant anatomy, just as well.
1430923;1457741965;asciilifeform;which theft ?
1430924;1457741979;mircea_popescu;that is not a question i can actually answer, i don't know you well enough
1430925;1457741980;asciilifeform;i mean, pretty much my whole existence is a theft
1430926;1457741989;mircea_popescu;besides this should be 1/4btc per hour and i should have a sofa./
1430927;1457741993;asciilifeform;l0l
1430928;1457741997;asciilifeform;cheap!
1430929;1457742008;mircea_popescu;all my life i've been shockingly cheap.
1430930;1457742022;asciilifeform;i would buy, at this rate !
1430931;1457742041;mircea_popescu;if i ever move to portland and open a shrink practice ima send you a flyer.
1430932;1457742043;asciilifeform;please be sure to install a suitable sofa !
1430933;1457742145;mircea_popescu;but the wonder is that you manage to maintain this weird somehow encapsulated while writing code. one would find the notion improbable, on the face, but then again i've read said code.
1430934;1457742153;mircea_popescu;hopefully the barrier lasts.
1430935;1457742170;asciilifeform;why is this a wonder
1430936;1457742172;asciilifeform;i dun get it
1430937;1457742182;mircea_popescu;clinical experience.
1430938;1457742200;mircea_popescu;i get it, "for me it's always been this way".
1430939;1457742207;asciilifeform;what would the code look like if this were not so ?
1430940;1457742216;mircea_popescu;uhh
1430941;1457742245;asciilifeform;i get what mircea_popescu is saying, 'the man is a lunatic but somehow capable of engineering sanely'
1430942;1457742246;mircea_popescu;this is actually a great question.
1430943;1457742254;mircea_popescu;nah, lunacy is not this.
1430944;1457742265;asciilifeform;but i would like to see why mircea_popescu considers the code - sane, and my picture of the rest - not.
1430945;1457742288;asciilifeform;i could, for instance, be readily persuaded that ~all~ of my works are of insanity.
1430946;1457742289;mircea_popescu;but anyway - i suppose the first symtpom of the barrier giving way is when you start including specific amulet comments
1430947;1457742333;asciilifeform;wtf is an amulet comment
1430948;1457742360;mircea_popescu;what's your definition of an amulet ?
1430949;1457742369;asciilifeform;a device of sympathetic magic ?
1430950;1457742396;mircea_popescu;basically. spurious item of presumed physical effectiveness predicated on the basis of metaphysical considerations.
1430951;1457742402;asciilifeform;aha
1430952;1457742413;asciilifeform;so a comment containing a prayer to vishnu, say ?
1430953;1457742419;mircea_popescu;yo9u know, like #this code copyright
1430954;1457742422;mircea_popescu;for instance.
1430955;1457742457;asciilifeform;this is amulet, but mircea_popescu's anarchist license, is not ?
1430956;1457742468;asciilifeform;as i see it, both are essentially decorative
1430957;1457742480;mircea_popescu;yes, they are. for as long as they're decorative, it's one thing.
1430958;1457742488;asciilifeform;having more or less same status as, e.g., #8=======>
1430959;1457742491;mircea_popescu;once they become necessary and "necessarily effectual", it gets iffy
1430960;1457742546;mircea_popescu;in any case - lunacy is not here contemplated. lunacy is actually in practice a very high bar of achievement. you're just weird, which is boringly common, especially in accomplished folks.
1430961;1457742582;asciilifeform;i can only aspire to the high bar.
1430962;1457742647;mircea_popescu;(technically speaking, the mp license is actually an anti-amulet, in the sense that it makes life impossible for a certain sort of lunatic. inasmuch as its effectiveness is not predicated on metaphysical but on quite physical considerations, it's just a virus.)
1430963;1457742660;asciilifeform;but is this property not itself amuletronic ?
1430964;1457742669;asciilifeform;it cannot all by itself 'make life impossible' for anyone.
1430965;1457742677;mircea_popescu;no, but we do know how idiots think.
1430966;1457742695;asciilifeform;and the old amulet was also calibrated for a certain kind of idiot
1430967;1457742705;asciilifeform;whose thought processes were reasonably well known
1430968;1457742719;mircea_popescu;mind, selling amulets is a trade like any other trade. wearing them is what was being discussed.
1430969;1457742767;asciilifeform;anyway i don't do amulets, much as mircea_popescu is convinced of this. i ~might~ entertain laughably inaccurate hypothesis about whatevers, when i have no access (unlike to the inside of a computer) to the priors.
1430970;1457742866;mircea_popescu;that's not the proper approach there. consider that you'd "entertain laughably innacurate hypothesis" about a) things that really make no difference to you ; b) with which you have absolutely no experience and c) that have exactly nothing in common with a hypothesis and everything in common with an article of faith.
1430971;1457742886;asciilifeform;who is to say what makes a difference to me.
1430972;1457742890;mircea_popescu;you could trivially test this swift hypothesis of yours you know - wire a grand to the next nigerian to visit your inbox then write to your bank to reverse it.
1430973;1457742900;asciilifeform;~i~ don't get to reverse it !
1430974;1457742903;asciilifeform;never said this.
1430975;1457742905;mircea_popescu;oh i see.
1430976;1457742911;asciilifeform;the system's owner gets to.
1430977;1457742928;asciilifeform;which is neither me nor the other schmuck.
1430978;1457742931;mircea_popescu;is he the elite ?
1430979;1457742954;asciilifeform;whoever he answers to, is sorta definitionally elite, no?
1430980;1457742962;mircea_popescu;ex post facto.
1430981;1457742990;mircea_popescu;it's a trope of fiction, all this.
1430982;1457743001;mircea_popescu;which whatever, everyone needs a hobby.
1430983;1457743049;asciilifeform;care to possibly give a brief picture of the reality ?
1430984;1457743060;asciilifeform;or what, 'your puny brain cannot digest it ' ?
1430985;1457743088;mircea_popescu;the reality of what ?
1430986;1457743091;asciilifeform;of swift.
1430987;1457743108;mircea_popescu;why not read the documentation ?
1430988;1457743126;mircea_popescu;it's remarkably open and well documented for a fiat banking thing.
1430989;1457743133;asciilifeform;why not read nsa.gov to learn which hdd firmwares are buggered ?
1430990;1457743148;mircea_popescu;it's a protocol you know.
1430991;1457743154;asciilifeform;or what, swift operators swore to vishnu to tell the truth and only the complete truth ?
1430992;1457743170;asciilifeform;but yes, i will actually go and read.
1430993;1457743182;mircea_popescu;so there's a meta-documentation that's secret and a faux documentation that's published ?
1430994;1457743182;*;asciilifeform bbl.
1430995;1457743203;mircea_popescu;same could be said about fucking css.
1430996;1457743258;mircea_popescu;(actually, amusingly enough, swift docs date from just about the era ada was fashionable. there was such a time - just like that time in the 90s when everyone was eager to implement linux-y things and you didn't really have to sell it at all, whole cities just switched for no reason)
1430997;1457743309;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430725 << epic line.
1430998;1457743309;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 21:10:58; assbot: Logged on 23-08-2015 05:06:06; trinque: I demand for this to never have happened at once!
1430999;1457744503;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8430 @ 0.00052764 = 4.448 BTC [+]
1431000;1457747309;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00052764 = 4.1684 BTC [+]
1431001;1457748347;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2515 @ 0.00052764 = 1.327 BTC [+]
1431002;1457748651;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00052901 = 3.2799 BTC [+] {2} 
1431003;1457749229;mircea_popescu;jesus, this sls thing is pretty big huh.
1431004;1457749244;mod6;wassat?
1431005;1457749251;mircea_popescu;some soap ingredient.
1431006;1457749258;mod6;ah
1431007;1457749259;mircea_popescu;apparently the etsy chicks are getting militant.
1431008;1457749265;mod6;heh
1431009;1457749284;mircea_popescu;i suppose in another decade there won't be a way to buy soap.
1431010;1457749317;mod6;have to make our own.
1431011;1457749351;mod6;al la fight club.
1431012;1457750841;mircea_popescu;it's this fashion thing, i guess every third unemployed/able chick is making artisanal soap these days.
1431013;1457750870;mircea_popescu;in a sense i can see it, must be satisfying to actually MAKE something in postsociety.
1431014;1457750902;mircea_popescu;but you really have to be retarded to imagine a ploy to claim industrial production is bad isn't obviously transparent and deeply ineffectual.
1431015;1457751261;mircea_popescu;https://www.quora.com/Who-will-win-the-Bitcoin-blocksize-war << nothing quite like 15 month old derpage.
1431016;1457751263;assbot;Who will win the Bitcoin blocksize war? - Quora ... ( http://bit.ly/1pCzfTk )
1431017;1457751325;mod6;heheh
1431018;1457751335;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00052782 = 3.9587 BTC [-]
1431019;1457751343;*;asciilifeform is in b0rked car waiting for crane
1431020;1457751354;mircea_popescu;o.o what happened ? crash ?
1431021;1457751359;asciilifeform;nah
1431022;1457751379;mod6;asciilifeform: did you say you were using gnat to link ada object flies?
1431023;1457751412;asciilifeform;mega-orc problem - iron rebar hook in parking lot of shady restaurant, gutted bumper ~on way out~
1431024;1457751425;asciilifeform;like fish.
1431025;1457751442;asciilifeform;srsly the sheet zimbabwe
1431026;1457751448;mircea_popescu;nuts.
1431027;1457751451;asciilifeform;*sheer
1431028;1457751457;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00052824 = 5.0711 BTC [+] {5} 
1431029;1457751487;mircea_popescu;i don't get it, who has spare rebar hooks ? what ?
1431030;1457751508;asciilifeform;crumbling concrete
1431031;1457751515;mircea_popescu;o brother.
1431032;1457751522;mircea_popescu;are you suing ? :D
1431033;1457751536;asciilifeform;l0l!
1431034;1457751559;mircea_popescu;maybe enjoy some um bongo in the interim ?
1431035;1457751568;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj5o4kQsXs
1431036;1457751569;assbot;Um Bongo Orginal Advert - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1pCzCgE )
1431037;1457751584;*;asciilifeform tunes in
1431038;1457751793;mircea_popescu;in other rebar hooks and crumbling concrete news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp3f4xtbeZ1qc5bcno1_1280.jpg
1431039;1457751795;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21nucly )
1431040;1457752034;*;mircea_popescu looks at qntra article, sees chorus of derps going "pay fee!!1". i'm so glad bitcoin evanghelism dragged in the webizens srsly.
1431041;1457752105;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo "sfly & piot" is a pretty good find!
1431042;1457752785;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "sfly & piot" is a pretty good find! << which is this?
1431043;1457753280;BingoBoingo;Aha
1431044;1457753287;*;BingoBoingo gets it nao
1431045;1457753394;danielpbarron;!up granny
1431046;1457753394;BingoBoingo;!up granny
1431047;1457753406;granny;The bet here bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/ is resolved, as Ethereum just surpassed billion market cap.
1431048;1457753412;granny;Thank you
1431049;1457754109;mircea_popescu;link says ~800mn
1431050;1457754114;mircea_popescu;not that it's not ridoinculous anyway.
1431051;1457754140;mircea_popescu;ponzi ahoy, should be funny to see what next week brings. 1 trn ? 1 bjln ?
1431052;1457754187;granny;Hi, the link to coincap.io shows over a billion right now
1431053;1457754213;mircea_popescu;i just looked ?
1431054;1457754217;granny;800 million is from the graph which is wrong
1431055;1457754224;granny;look at the market cap
1431056;1457754235;granny;just below the price
1431057;1457754324;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00052827 = 2.298 BTC [+]
1431058;1457754355;mircea_popescu;there's a graph, it doesn't touch 1bn.
1431059;1457754371;mircea_popescu;i suppose the site's totally borked, huh.
1431060;1457754391;granny;hmm, yes, that graph is totally wrong
1431061;1457754409;mircea_popescu;either totally wrong or totally right or w/e. i guess mods will see to it.
1431062;1457754439;mircea_popescu;if derpy site is going to print numbers, might as well print the same ones. one'd think.
1431063;1457754606;granny;Well, it's over a billion at coinmarketcap, so I know the number's I'd trust there.
1431064;1457754629;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3037 @ 0.00052782 = 1.603 BTC [-] {2} 
1431065;1457754690;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9233 @ 0.00052657 = 4.8618 BTC [-] {3} 
1431066;1457756886;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00052508 = 2.1003 BTC [-] {4} 
1431067;1457758928;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu have some lulz, http://dpaste.com/02F0596.txt
1431068;1457758929;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7JwU2 )
1431069;1457758929;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431070;1457759341;asciilifeform;http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525 << deep gold mine of obamitler lulz
1431071;1457759342;assbot;President Obama’s Interview With Jeffrey Goldberg on Syria and Foreign Policy - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7JRX1 )
1431072;1457759367;asciilifeform;e.g., '“isis is not an existential threat to the United States,” he told me in one of these conversations. “Climate change is a potential existential threat to the entire world if we don’t do something about it.” '
1431073;1457759384;asciilifeform;or, almost worthy of the prb folks,
1431074;1457759386;asciilifeform;'“The truth is, actually, Putin, in all of our meetings, is scrupulously polite, very frank. Our meetings are very businesslike. He never keeps me waiting two hours like he does a bunch of these other folks.” Obama said that Putin believes his relationship with the U.S. is more important than Americans tend to think. “He’s constantly interested in being seen as our peer and as working with us, because he’s not comple
1431075;1457759386;asciilifeform;tely stupid. He understands that Russia’s overall position in the world is significantly diminished. And the fact that he invades Crimea or is trying to prop up Assad doesn’t suddenly make him a player. You don’t see him in any of these meetings out here helping to shape the agenda. For that matter, there’s not a G20 meeting where the Russians set the agenda around any of the issues that are important.”'
1431076;1457759438;asciilifeform;can't help but love the 'you don't see him in any of these meetings' thing
1431077;1457759455;asciilifeform;like the various ethederpium meetings 'you' didn't see mircea_popescu at, etc.
1431078;1457759997;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00052399 = 8.541 BTC [-] {7} 
1431079;1457760790;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.0005233 = 2.7473 BTC [-] {2} 
1431080;1457760970;funkenstein_;evening gentlemen
1431081;1457760982;funkenstein_;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430662 <--  TXID or it didn't happen
1431082;1457760982;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 20:34:41; asciilifeform: jurov: the beast is not bleeding. it moved coin from its left pocket to right.
1431083;1457761308;funkenstein_;what beast?  I recommend "operators manual for spaceship earth" B.Fuller for details on how there's no beast here
1431084;1457761349;funkenstein_;anyway i log in to share a little toy i've been working on: http://block-roulette.com
1431085;1457761350;assbot;Bitcoin Block Roulette ... ( http://bit.ly/22atURf )
1431086;1457761463;funkenstein_;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430437 <-- minor typo here, you meant "unhappy adolescents want to own women"
1431087;1457761463;assbot;Logged on 11-03-2016 13:41:29; mircea_popescu: depends to. the problem here is that high value males are interested in owning females, not interested in producing litter. consequently, western world has fertility crisis.
1431088;1457761615;funkenstein_;up next: "ethereum could own russia" ?
1431089;1457761621;ben_vulpes;funkenstein_: spacity.website does not
1431090;1457761693;funkenstein_;eh?
1431091;1457761726;ben_vulpes;the link at the bottom of the website
1431092;1457761738;ben_vulpes;nifty roulette wheel
1431093;1457761749;funkenstein_;ah thanks
1431094;1457761906;danielpbarron;funkenstein_, what do you prefer with regard to owning women?
1431095;1457761999;funkenstein_;danielpbarron, girlfriends are way more fun than cattle
1431096;1457762023;danielpbarron;and you know this having tried both?
1431097;1457762029;funkenstein_;right
1431098;1457762376;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00052315 = 2.7204 BTC [-] {2} 
1431099;1457763113;ben_vulpes;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2685 << i lol every time
1431100;1457763114;assbot;Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1Li1ZuJ )
1431101;1457763767;deedbot-;[Qntra] Bharara And Goons Move Artifacts From Unsanctioned To Sanctioned Looters - http://qntra.net/2016/03/bharara-and-goons-move-artifacts-from-unsanctioned-to-sanctioned-looters/
1431102;1457765066;ben_vulpes;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h#0645 << what i ask you the fuck is this
1431103;1457765067;assbot;Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1QLDvc3 )
1431104;1457765209;funkenstein_;hmm..  only called from within the miner
1431105;1457765252;funkenstein_;snip snip!
1431106;1457765267;ben_vulpes;burn it with fire
1431107;1457765276;ben_vulpes;https://git.thwg.org/wozz/bitcoin/commit/460b66b14b80a55279d837c91aff1f1c3ca60d7f << something that looks originalish
1431108;1457765280;assbot;Remove obsolete Win32 AffinityBugWorkaround() (460b66b1) · Commits · wozz / Bitcoin · GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1QLDRiU )
1431109;1457766768;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6918 @ 0.00052471 = 3.6299 BTC [+] {2} 
1431110;1457766951;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2129 @ 0.00052522 = 1.1182 BTC [+]
1431111;1457766977;punkman;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqZBVTMrgFA
1431112;1457766978;assbot;Toyota - A Sirious safety message - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1pCOWtH )
1431113;1457767252;punkman;heh http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/19495
1431114;1457767253;assbot;Gmane -- Call for support for lisp in the WebAssembly development. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pCPgsu )
1431115;1457767288;ben_vulpes;punkman: utterly hilarious
1431116;1457767291;ben_vulpes;also, fuck cars.
1431117;1457767519;fluffypony;punkman: that doesn't work anymore, with iOS 9 it does reasonable voice recognition
1431118;1457767533;fluffypony;I can trigger it on my wife's phone, but I have to put on an accent :-P
1431119;1457769031;punkman;interesting http://lexborisov.github.io/myhtml/
1431120;1457769032;assbot;MyHTML — HTML Parser on Pure C with POSIX Threads Support by Alexander Borisov ... ( http://bit.ly/1LY5nLd )
1431121;1457769048;punkman;"Next in turn are the CSS parser and Renderer.  I'm writing them all by myself, still full of energy. "
1431122;1457773417;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052627 = 2.684 BTC [+]
1431123;1457774333;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6988 @ 0.00052641 = 3.6786 BTC [+] {3} 
1431124;1457774637;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2094 @ 0.00052627 = 1.102 BTC [-]
1431125;1457780188;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00052457 = 3.672 BTC [-] {3} 
1431126;1457781480;*;nubbins` checks for s.bbet feb statement
1431127;1457781482;nubbins`;nothing yet
1431128;1457781896;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00052541 = 2.1542 BTC [+]
1431129;1457785460;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your lulz deposit has been received and credited to your account.
1431130;1457785474;mircea_popescu;you can now spend this lulz in any of the affiliated lulzshops
1431131;1457785576;nubbins`;;;seen decimation
1431132;1457785577;gribble;decimation was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 31 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <decimation> I enjoyed my time here, learned much, had many lolz.  I do not wish to cause drama or be an impediment to improving bitcoin.  Even though I presently have L2 rating from a few people, I am not going impose on their good grace by remaining.  God bless all of you.
1431133;1457785691;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431071 << guy's a complete imbecile. reading obama is more or less like reading reddit, i dunno who could possibly be arsed.
1431134;1457785691;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 05:09:02; assbot: President Obama’s Interview With Jeffrey Goldberg on Syria and Foreign Policy - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7JRX1 )
1431135;1457785750;mircea_popescu;not even the secret services of the various powers can be bothered anymore. ~nobody cares what obama says in any sense.
1431136;1457785790;mircea_popescu;(for a reasonably well documented case of this, see the various middle eastern deals that didn't include the derp)
1431137;1457785859;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431086 << that's not how things work, "oh, minor typo in the torah, it meant dwarves are the chosen people".
1431138;1457785859;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 05:44:23; funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430437 <-- minor typo here, you meant "unhappy adolescents want to own women"
1431139;1457786059;mircea_popescu;nice font o.O. who's scws. where's the provably fair link ? why would i play roulette, i don't want to give you 5% or w/e the fuck the edge was. 1% is generous, this is not 1750.
1431140;1457786095;mircea_popescu;really, dice type sites (and no, pure chance is nothing but dice, no matter how you package it) should be happy with 0.1% or less. bitbet WORKS for that 1%.
1431141;1457786183;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431095 << a) who the fuck do you imagine owns cattle and pretends they're women ; b) srsly now, this isn't how it works, you redefine the context. i own the women you'd be proud to call girlfriend, as cattle. and yes, they have exactly nothing against this arrangement, in fact, they bluntly prefer being owned by me than being your girlfriend. now you're lookin at the prob
1431142;1457786183;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 05:53:19; funkenstein_: danielpbarron, girlfriends are way more fun than cattle
1431143;1457786184;mircea_popescu;lem.
1431144;1457786222;mircea_popescu;(yes yes, not possibru, jane'd never, yadda yadda. i know, i know.)
1431145;1457786330;nubbins`;"i own the women you'd be proud to call girlfriend" << lol
1431146;1457786341;nubbins`;you flatter yourself in a most vulgar manner
1431147;1457786528;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431121 << that guy looks like he's doing god's work, ask him to come over ?
1431148;1457786528;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 07:50:48; punkman: "Next in turn are the CSS parser and Renderer.  I'm writing them all by myself, still full of energy. "
1431149;1457786643;mircea_popescu;in other lolz :
1431150;1457786645;mircea_popescu;Prince Alwaleed Bin12:21 pm 2 KiBRe
1431151;1457786645;mircea_popescu;Mr. Bernard Madoff2:33 am 3.4 KiBHello dear
1431152;1457786645;mircea_popescu;Madam Aisha M.GaddafiThu, 12:29 pm 5 KiBGreetings From Madam Aisha: Pls Get Back To Me So...
1431153;1457786666;mircea_popescu;apparently i'm a very important fellow.
1431154;1457787257;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431151 << l0l i also got this gift from spm0din !
1431155;1457787257;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 12:44:05; mircea_popescu: Mr. Bernard Madoff2:33 am 3.4 KiBHello dear
1431156;1457787291;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431130 << ty mircea_popescu !
1431157;1457787291;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 12:24:34; mircea_popescu: you can now spend this lulz in any of the affiliated lulzshops
1431158;1457787364;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: feel welcome to use the piece of fine lultronium in an article if it fits, i would greatly enjoy reading such
1431159;1457787396;mircea_popescu;lmao, check this out : apparently sometime cca 2008, one oleh soskin said that nato membership [for the ukraine] is favoured by women, they being... the more intelligent part of the electorate.
1431160;1457787401;mircea_popescu;epic.
1431161;1457787418;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform eh couldn't be arsed.
1431162;1457787426;asciilifeform;ah same
1431163;1457787447;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00052477 = 3.1749 BTC [-] {2} 
1431164;1457787464;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431133 << i saw the choice gibblets pop up in ru sphere and tracked them to the motherturd
1431165;1457787464;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 12:28:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431071 << guy's a complete imbecile. reading obama is more or less like reading reddit, i dunno who could possibly be arsed.
1431166;1457787599;mircea_popescu;anyway, but speaking of the madam : aisha gaddafi is a rather interesting case. about our age, guy's only daughter iirc, ex un something-or-the-other.
1431167;1457787608;mircea_popescu;then banks decided to steal all her money, because reasons.
1431168;1457787615;mircea_popescu;this is how it works now.
1431169;1457787653;asciilifeform;bud did they swift it!111 ahahahal0
1431170;1457787655;mircea_popescu;she also sued nato for you know, bombing a building and killing her brother and daughter. nato however wasn't sent to jail, because also reasons.
1431171;1457787659;asciilifeform;l.
1431172;1457787672;asciilifeform;hence nato reich.
1431173;1457787684;asciilifeform;aka usg
1431174;1457787692;mircea_popescu;well no, i suspect most of the theft actually happened in uae.
1431175;1457787714;asciilifeform;and didn't reagan murder his other daughter?
1431176;1457787723;mircea_popescu;nfi
1431177;1457787732;asciilifeform;iirc.
1431178;1457787734;mircea_popescu;ah 1980s bombing or somesuch
1431179;1457787738;asciilifeform;aha
1431180;1457787750;mircea_popescu;jewish name, too. rachel, hannah, something
1431181;1457787800;mircea_popescu;funny that the official name of the nato invasion of lybia is "the libyan civil war".
1431182;1457787811;mircea_popescu;you know, the "civil war" between the government there and the government away.
1431183;1457787860;asciilifeform;classic usgtronics, they even had an ukr 'exile gov' going in the 40s, 50s
1431184;1457787863;mircea_popescu;i dunno, someone's supposed to buy this shit or something ? oh, if nato invades some place and then calls it a civil war then totally ?
1431185;1457787904;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo speaking of which, perhaps it's time to start referencing usg as "the government IN washington" ? not like it's legitimate or anything.
1431186;1457787928;asciilifeform;aha
1431187;1457788077;mircea_popescu;just like you know, the elector of saxony being konig im as opposed of konig der. for as long as he stays home he can pretend he's king.
1431188;1457788142;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431144 << sometimed i say to pet , that 'if you be a good pet, mircea_popescu ~might~ consider you for enlistment'
1431189;1457788142;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 12:37:02; mircea_popescu: (yes yes, not possibru, jane'd never, yadda yadda. i know, i know.)
1431190;1457788193;mircea_popescu;why me ?! she's enlisted already, neh ? what are you doing!
1431191;1457788197;mircea_popescu;MUST I DO EVERYTHING MYSELF!
1431192;1457788204;asciilifeform;when i'm killed
1431193;1457788216;mircea_popescu;this shit's becoming ever more arabic isn't it.
1431194;1457788228;mircea_popescu;i dunno how one could refuse widow of comrade huh.
1431195;1457788239;asciilifeform;quite!
1431196;1457788333;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431119 << this is nifty ~but~ i invoke greenspun's tenth.
1431197;1457788333;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 07:50:31; punkman: interesting http://lexborisov.github.io/myhtml/
1431198;1457788352;asciilifeform;the correct way to parse html is either a) don't
1431199;1457788362;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00052538 = 1.3923 BTC [+]
1431200;1457788405;asciilifeform;b) readermacro in commonlisp, it turns into s-expression as well formed as the html, and the resulting proggy is what, ten line.
1431201;1457788427;mircea_popescu;i don't think you understand what "parse html" means.
1431202;1457788471;mircea_popescu;let me enlighten you : it's "take a string that is definitionally misformed html, aka html soup, and transform it into sufficiently well formed html to render".
1431203;1457788494;asciilifeform;well aha!
1431204;1457788505;mircea_popescu;this job, being eminently unspecifiable, is thus highly fashionable. so we add a codicile :
1431205;1457788515;mircea_popescu;"and do this in the manner everyone else is, so developers aren't too surprised"
1431206;1457788557;asciilifeform;aaaand that's where i jump off that train into the underbrush and join up with the partizans.
1431207;1457788577;mircea_popescu;which explains why madam aisha is writing to you.
1431208;1457788596;asciilifeform;i hope they get 'sooorprised' by falling anvil.
1431209;1457788605;mircea_popescu;it won't make a difference.
1431210;1457788646;asciilifeform;likely.
1431211;1457789094;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4156 @ 0.00052673 = 2.1891 BTC [+] {3} 
1431212;1457789332;punkman;http://www.netsurf-browser.org/projects/
1431213;1457789332;assbot;Projects ... ( http://bit.ly/24WzwRs )
1431214;1457789370;punkman;!s netsurf*
1431215;1457789371;assbot;0 results for 'netsurf*' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=netsurf%2A
1431216;1457789532;asciilifeform;punkman: aaaaaah yeah suure i so yearn for 10000s lines of c parsing poorly defined crapolade datastructures on my box
1431217;1457789554;asciilifeform;it is the very example of Things That Must Die
1431218;1457789576;asciilifeform;its correct implementation is definitionally impossible
1431219;1457789605;asciilifeform;because 'correct' MEANS, among ither things, fits-in-head.
1431220;1457789695;punkman;well you use a browser don't ya
1431221;1457789720;punkman;I'd rather stop using one of the popular browsers
1431222;1457789728;asciilifeform;i use plenty of loathesome things
1431223;1457789750;asciilifeform;but i will not nod to cementing them into the future.
1431224;1457789801;asciilifeform;which is why i do not succumb to the temptation of maintaining a public linux flavour, for instance
1431225;1457789826;asciilifeform;even though various folks i respect have asked
1431226;1457789845;mircea_popescu;nah, i didn't ask you to maintain one. i asked for one to exist.
1431227;1457789858;asciilifeform;ahahahahahaha l0l
1431228;1457789861;mircea_popescu;so far, the various forefather derps have failed to produce ANYTHING
1431229;1457789880;asciilifeform;they produced megatonne of shit
1431230;1457789883;mircea_popescu;it's on their fucking heads. when i'm not willing to pay as much as a farthing for the continuance of the world they built, this'd be why.
1431231;1457791229;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5425 @ 0.0005252 = 2.8492 BTC [-] {4} 
1431232;1457791412;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00052473 = 6.9789 BTC [-]
1431233;1457792429;shinohai;;;later tell mod6 gentoo ready for test when u wake up
1431234;1457792429;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431235;1457793974;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00052473 = 2.2826 BTC [-] {5} 
1431236;1457795560;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4390 @ 0.00052473 = 2.3036 BTC [-]
1431237;1457799061;danielpbarron;sooo.. AlphaGo won.
1431238;1457799162;danielpbarron;!up asciilifeform
1431239;1457799647;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00052636 = 1.7896 BTC [-] {2} 
1431240;1457800379;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00052699 = 3.7943 BTC [+] {3} 
1431241;1457800806;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00052811 = 1.822 BTC [+]
1431242;1457801024;phf;asciilifeform: b) readermacro in commonlisp, it turns into s-expression as well formed as the html, and the resulting proggy is what, ten line. << i wish, closure-html is 4252 uloc, depends on cxml 7881 uloc, depends on closure-common 2053 uloc.
1431243;1457801160;phf;i think there's a fukamachi project that does html parsing with the intent of scrapping, but it's the guy behind woo http server (i.e. cffi to libev, full "modernizayshn" kool aid), http://cl21.org, so i've not looked at it
1431244;1457801782;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00052636 = 1.0527 BTC [-] {2} 
1431245;1457802072;phf;ben_vulpes: also dood wtf you stop in the city, swing through powells, and can't go 2 mi out of the way to get your eyes on my fp and mine on yours? << i'm guilty as charged, but it was not intended as a slight, so please don't take it as such. i needed to clear my head, and while i thought i should reach out, i didn't have it in me. this is not the last time i'm in Oregon this year, so i promise to not make the same mistake again :)
1431246;1457802186;phf;the area is Willamette National Forest, some hiking distance away from Breitenbush
1431247;1457802217;phf;also, holy mother of logs
1431248;1457802270;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5736 @ 0.00052695 = 3.0226 BTC [+]
1431249;1457803490;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00052636 = 3.5792 BTC [-]
1431250;1457805747;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00052593 = 3.0767 BTC [-] {4} 
1431251;1457805902;mod6;shinohai: cool! what do you wanna test?  probably should get all the pre-req's installed and then build trb with the latest build script: http://deedot.org/build-bitcoind-V99995.sh
1431252;1457805903;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pmryks )
1431253;1457805910;mod6;Unless you had something else in mind.
1431254;1457805991;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00052457 = 2.9638 BTC [-] {5} 
1431255;1457806122;shinohai;mod6 that looks good will give it a whirl
1431256;1457806140;mircea_popescu;how's blogging going btw danielpbarron
1431257;1457806160;mod6;shinohai: ok cool.
1431258;1457806285;danielpbarron;mircea_popescu, got a bunch of drafts going. might have one ready to publish in a day or two
1431259;1457806300;mircea_popescu;cool.
1431260;1457806317;mircea_popescu;how much for an eulora ad ?
1431261;1457806340;shinohai;mod6: deedbot link is null
1431262;1457806351;mod6;oh, i fucked up the url
1431263;1457806367;mod6;http://deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-V99995.sh
1431264;1457806368;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UnhTWh )
1431265;1457806414;mod6;you probably should have a box on your lan that you can periodically offload the block chain to, incase of power outage.
1431266;1457806430;mod6;we've seen what happens there.
1431267;1457806585;ben_vulpes;phf: none taken
1431268;1457806770;danielpbarron;mircea_popescu, an ad like how? a post? or like something on the sidebar?
1431269;1457806792;mircea_popescu;yeah something like on the sidebar.
1431270;1457806897;danielpbarron;3 rock double distilate blueprints for a month?
1431271;1457806902;shinohai;mod6: i built this as qemu img so i can try to make mirror of the whole shebang.
1431272;1457806911;mircea_popescu;ahahaha wut!
1431273;1457806926;mircea_popescu;how about 10mn for the rest of the year.
1431274;1457807230;danielpbarron;24 wdd blueprints for the rest of the year
1431275;1457807247;danielpbarron;q200
1431276;1457807309;danielpbarron;orr, rdd*
1431277;1457807322;mircea_popescu;i was thinking wtf.
1431278;1457807333;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3618 @ 0.00052441 = 1.8973 BTC [-]
1431279;1457807491;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo speaking of which, perhaps it's time to start referencing usg as "the government IN washington" ? not like it's legitimate or anything. << I'll have to do some reading into the right way to deny them legitimacy in writing
1431280;1457807528;mircea_popescu;the embattled self-styled "us president", for one.
1431281;1457807746;BingoBoingo;That one could work, but parts of this may be required to live for quite some time.
1431282;1457807786;mircea_popescu;yeah. you also don't want it to get tedious.
1431283;1457807796;mircea_popescu;maybe have a 1:10 rule or something.
1431284;1457807810;BingoBoingo;Gotta make sure we can live with the labels.
1431285;1457807843;mircea_popescu;aha
1431286;1457807909;BingoBoingo;Been working on ways to handle Trump-CLinton or Girl-Clinton January, but still need to work on the Cowboy Cruz and Mormon Mitt contingencies.
1431287;1457807941;mircea_popescu;do you know about the derp from ohio, btw ?
1431288;1457807943;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15503 @ 0.00052292 = 8.1068 BTC [-] {4} 
1431289;1457807953;BingoBoingo;Mr Boring Kasich?
1431290;1457807970;mircea_popescu;dude, he's something else. such a mine of unintentional comedy has rarely been seen.
1431291;1457807979;mircea_popescu;do you know he's the "light of hope" or some nonsense ?
1431292;1457808000;mircea_popescu;and they "coined a term" to "help him breakout", something like kasichwhat was it
1431293;1457808005;BingoBoingo;Yeah, but he's been running to barter his delegates in a brokered convention the whole time. Not a serious candidate like Cruz or Sanders
1431294;1457808021;BingoBoingo;Aha, they all try to make derpy memes nao
1431295;1457808081;*;BingoBoingo generally directs less attention to vice presidential candidates like the Ohio guy
1431296;1457808097;mircea_popescu;Kasich: Women 'left their kitchens' to help him campaign
1431297;1457808107;BingoBoingo;lol
1431298;1457808142;shinohai;are there pre-existing Eulora banners somewhere? or can one acquire rights to the imagery ?
1431299;1457808162;mircea_popescu;shinohai jusy make one.
1431300;1457808169;mircea_popescu;put it on eulorum, should be fine.
1431301;1457808188;shinohai;cool
1431302;1457808204;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo guy's pretty lulzy. piece pumping him, large lulz potential. jus' sayin'.
1431303;1457808220;mircea_popescu;john kasich 5.0!
1431304;1457808253;BingoBoingo;I might start playing with that, but can't run it until Monday. If it drops has to be fresh for Tuesday's votings
1431305;1457808268;mircea_popescu;it's like the hot topic of electoral derpitude. where pruny old ladies from ohio copy/paste stuff from the reddits.
1431306;1457808276;BingoBoingo;lol
1431307;1457808276;mod6;<+shinohai> mod6: i built this as qemu img so i can try to make mirror of the whole shebang. << ah ok
1431308;1457808476;mircea_popescu;http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/05/what_the_john_kasich_profile_t.html << 2014.
1431309;1457808477;assbot;What the John Kasich profile tells us about where he's been and where he might be heading | cleveland.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1pmuDB9 )
1431310;1457809834;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2323 @ 0.0005242 = 1.2177 BTC [-] {3} 
1431311;1457809895;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3053 @ 0.00052272 = 1.5959 BTC [-] {3} 
1431312;1457810288;BingoBot;http://qntra.net/2016/03/bug-in-libotr-threatens-to-compromise-systems/
1431313;1457810290;assbot;Bug In libotr Threatens To Compromise Systems | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22bHL9X )
1431314;1457810774;adlai;hmm: "By sending 275 messages of size 20MB each [to] a system with 8GB of ram and 15GB of swap space."
1431315;1457810855;adlai;let's just say that this is not exploitable on a pogo
1431316;1457811099;BingoBoingo;Not every computer is a pogo yet
1431317;1457811284;BingoBoingo;In other entirely expected failures at lulz http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/12/was-the-woman-giving-the-nazi-salute-at-trump-rally-in-chicago-a-supporter-of-donald-or-bernie/
1431318;1457811285;assbot;Was The Woman Giving The Nazi Salute At Trump Rally In Chicago A Supporter Of Donald Or Bernie? | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1V1P7e4 )
1431319;1457812640;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00052261 = 3.7367 BTC [-] {3} 
1431320;1457813538;BingoBoingo;Oh, ED does get new content https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Trolling_Induced_Transgenderism_Syndrome
1431321;1457813540;assbot;Trolling Induced Transsexuality Syndrome - Encyclopedia Dramatica ... ( http://bit.ly/21osq3F )
1431322;1457813855;BingoBoingo;Fuck this John Kasich research never ends https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Cotton_Ceiling
1431323;1457813856;assbot;Cotton Ceiling - Encyclopedia Dramatica ... ( http://bit.ly/21osGjb )
1431324;1457813860;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.0005221 = 2.5583 BTC [-] {3} 
1431325;1457814043;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.000522 = 1.8009 BTC [-]
1431326;1457814165;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3849 @ 0.000522 = 2.0092 BTC [-]
1431327;1457814226;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.000522 = 3.7845 BTC [-]
1431328;1457814592;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3776 @ 0.000522 = 1.9711 BTC [-]
1431329;1457814775;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.000522 = 10.2834 BTC [-]
1431330;1457815568;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.000522 = 3.0798 BTC [-]
1431331;1457817334;phf;http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/gl/lib/root-dev-ino.h#n33 heh, how typical gnu
1431332;1457817335;assbot;coreutils.git - GNU coreutils ... ( http://bit.ly/1TDZt4r )
1431333;1457817605;ben_vulpes;read that as "quote as fuck" for half a second
1431334;1457817754;ben_vulpes;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2671 << is there a good reason to be doing this check inside ScanHash_CryptoPP's loop rather than just returning from SC_CPP on each iteration?
1431335;1457817755;assbot;Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1TE0iKD )
1431336;1457817764;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.0005244 = 3.4348 BTC [+] {2} 
1431337;1457817799;ben_vulpes;also dafuq is up with that name
1431338;1457818313;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11722 @ 0.00052568 = 6.162 BTC [+] {3} 
1431339;1457818429;phf;well, doing loops increases runtime of function, but returns a hash with a bunch of 00s so presumably a more expensive check outside has higher chance of inspecting a relevant value
1431340;1457818838;phf;but imho SHA256Transform, ScanHash_CryptoPP and BitcoinMiner:3021-3032 would be better of getting rolled into a single dozen line for-loop
1431341;1457819080;phf;or at the very least ScanHash_CryptoPP inlined into bitcoin miner, can just do hash<=hashTarget check immediately inside if (((unsigned short*)phash)[14] == 0)
1431342;1457819106;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11227 @ 0.00052211 = 5.8617 BTC [-] {5} 
1431343;1457819131;phf;the dodgy name betrays a dodgy abstraction of the "too much shit here, put that shit over there, nice and tidy like" school of code refactoring
1431344;1457819566;*;ben_vulpes is pleased to see suspicions confirmed
1431345;1457819871;ben_vulpes;phf: while i have your attention, do you have any idea how the various SHA256_Init, _Transform functions get into main.cpp?
1431346;1457819912;ben_vulpes;i looked at main's imports and didn't see it including any other bitcoind namespaces pulling in the openssl/sha files
1431347;1457820060;phf;i'm confused, src/headers imports openssl/sha yeah?
1431348;1457820080;ben_vulpes;oh
1431349;1457820097;ben_vulpes;so there are includes in both .h and .cpp
1431350;1457820117;ben_vulpes;thanks phf
1431351;1457820169;phf;i found a watch for asciilifeform http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-UC-2200-Series-Controller-Printer-with-Wrist-Computer-Watch-UC-2000-/152006653855
1431352;1457820170;assbot;Seiko UC 2200 Series Controller Printer with Wrist Computer Watch UC 2000 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/22bWQIC )
1431353;1457820839;*;BingoBoingo thought alf still used gears and springs
1431354;1457820875;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.000522 = 3.8889 BTC [-] {2} 
1431355;1457821851;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00052749 = 3.2704 BTC [+] {3} 
1431356;1457821973;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.000522 = 3.8628 BTC [-]
1431357;1457822888;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4393 @ 0.00052702 = 2.3152 BTC [+]
1431358;1457824024;danielpbarron;;;later tell BingoBoingo http://danielpbarron.com/gmosquito.asc.txt
1431359;1457824025;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24XhDSu )
1431360;1457824025;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431361;1457824047;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.000522 = 2.5839 BTC [-] {2} 
1431362;1457824080;danielpbarron;man it's way easier to prepare qntra articles with my blog draft setup, and if you don't like it i'm already all set to publish it myself :D
1431363;1457824783;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: ty
1431364;1457824838;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: I'll get this up in a bit.
1431365;1457827801;shinohai;!s block explorer
1431366;1457827801;assbot;50 results for 'block explorer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=block+explorer
1431367;1457828073;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.000522 = 2.2707 BTC [-]
1431368;1457828683;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.000522 = 1.1484 BTC [-]
1431369;1457828888;phf;i have block explorer code, i think last time i touched it i was working on getting all the various hashes link to the right places (previous transaction, addresses, etc.)
1431370;1457828972;phf;but i don't have a complete blockchain, and since i'm not using any sql type stuff, i need to look into how much space various hashes take up when loaded into memory
1431371;1457829233;phf;wintermute (btcbase machine) is unfit for the purpose, since i suspect digitalocean will kill it pretty fast
1431372;1457829736;shinohai;i am running an abe but it isn't fully synced.
1431373;1457829964;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.000522 = 1.4094 BTC [-]
1431374;1457830086;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4641 @ 0.00052243 = 2.4246 BTC [+] {2} 
1431375;1457830208;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3356 @ 0.00052235 = 1.753 BTC [-] {2} 
1431376;1457830545;ben_vulpes;> wintermute
1431377;1457830547;ben_vulpes;nice
1431378;1457831062;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.000522 = 2.1402 BTC [-] {2} 
1431379;1457832099;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.0005273 = 1.2392 BTC [+] {3} 
1431380;1457832344;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3009 @ 0.00052604 = 1.5829 BTC [-]
1431381;1457832831;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052742 = 2.0042 BTC [+]
1431382;1457833328;adlai;!s m s.mpoe
1431383;1457833328;assbot;305 results for 'm s.mpoe' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=m+s.mpoe
1431384;1457833510;adlai;!t m s.mpoe
1431385;1457833510;assbot;[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.000522 / 0.00052466 / 0.00053022 (378077 shares, 198.36 BTC), 7D: 0.000522 / 0.00053213 / 0.00055717 (11371374 shares, 6,051.08 BTC), 30D: 0.000522 / 0.00056361 / 0.00059897 (81128833 shares, 45,725.61 BTC)
1431386;1457833522;adlai;!s 30D S.MPOE
1431387;1457833523;assbot;236 results for '30D S.MPOE' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=30D+S.MPOE
1431388;1457834234;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052739 = 2.0041 BTC [-] {4} 
1431389;1457834905;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052816 = 2.007 BTC [+]
1431390;1457836552;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5508 @ 0.00052786 = 2.9075 BTC [+] {2} 
1431391;1457837528;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.000522 = 2.6622 BTC [-]
1431392;1457837772;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.000522 = 8.2998 BTC [-]
1431393;1457838626;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11577 @ 0.00052194 = 6.0425 BTC [-] {3} 
1431394;1457839663;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5757 @ 0.00052157 = 3.0027 BTC [-] {2} 
1431395;1457839785;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00052584 = 1.4461 BTC [+] {3} 
1431396;1457840090;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00052157 = 1.2778 BTC [-] {2} 
1431397;1457840639;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00052437 = 1.2061 BTC [+] {2} 
1431398;1457841859;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00052157 = 3.1294 BTC [-]
1431399;1457842652;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052157 = 2.2949 BTC [-]
1431400;1457842835;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2495 @ 0.00052205 = 1.3025 BTC [+]
1431401;1457842936;BingoNewsButt;http://qntra.net/2016/03/point-washington-thugs-testing-gm-mosquitos/
1431402;1457842937;assbot;Point: Washington Thugs Testing GM Mosquitos | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22adSKC )
1431403;1457842948;BingoNewsButt;http://qntra.net/2016/03/counter-point-fuck-them-all-to-death-complete-mosquito-eradication-overdue/
1431404;1457842949;assbot;Counterpoint: Fuck Them All To Death – Complete Mosquito Eradication Overdue | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22adR9m )
1431405;1457842964;*;BingoBoingo believes this is a qntra first
1431406;1457843103;BingoBoingo;;;later tell mircea_popescu Apologies for my latest qntra being a bit on the long side, but had to shame United States Gang while promoting my pet cause of preventing people from being born more retarded than they have to be
1431407;1457843104;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431408;1457843303;phf;when i see these people https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/e/e5/Fattrannys.jpg they now remind me of BingoBoingo and his crusade
1431409;1457843304;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/22aelMU )
1431410;1457843337;BingoBoingo;phf: Technically they were transMayogender before they called themselves transgender
1431411;1457843420;danielpbarron;that photo is triggering.. warning plz!
1431412;1457843477;phf;shitlords need safe space too
1431413;1457843994;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00052157 = 3.338 BTC [-]
1431414;1457844106;BingoBoingo;Desperate for Beetus https://i.sli.mg/ZBVBHD.jpg
1431415;1457844107;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Wi4MEu )
1431416;1457844787;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00052203 = 2.8712 BTC [-] {2} 
1431417;1457845397;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4416 @ 0.00052157 = 2.3033 BTC [-] {2} 
1431418;1457845587;danielpbarron;;;later tell BingoBoingo http://danielpbarron.com/qntra/anybody-can-learn.asc.txt
1431419;1457845588;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SJQ7Dh )
1431420;1457845588;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431421;1457845735;BingoBoingo;ty, another great find
1431422;1457845834;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: For some reason the line spacing in this one got weird and it was infested with <div> tags, just cleaning them up and it will go up.
1431423;1457845879;danielpbarron;yeah i noticed that too, but i figured since my wordpress generated the stuff it would unpack to the same thing i saw in yours
1431424;1457846027;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: Well there's a difference between what it wants to eat and what it shits out
1431425;1457846051;BingoBoingo;Anyways I guess today is danielpbarron shits on the Bill Gates charitable legacy day.
1431426;1457846071;BingoBoingo;* "charitable"
1431427;1457846077;BingoBoingo;forgot the scare quotes
1431428;1457846273;danielpbarron;neato, the thing lets me "privately publish" so I can keep my own copy of it without it cluttering up my draft list or showing up on the rss
1431429;1457846336;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/03/anybody-can-learn-gets-it-in-the-breech/
1431430;1457846337;assbot;'Anybody Can Learn' Gets It In The Breech | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1SJQXQo )
1431431;1457846922;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00052815 = 3.1425 BTC [+] {2} 
1431432;1457847105;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052816 = 2.4295 BTC [+] {2} 
1431433;1457854174;BingoBoingo;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/9952758/The-horses-saddled-with-our-obesity-epidemic.html
1431434;1457854175;assbot;The horses saddled with our obesity epidemic - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1WiesPw )
1431435;1457854186;BingoBoingo;"The study of 152 horses from Devon and Cornwall found that just one in 20 riders is within the optimum weight range."
1431436;1457855157;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00052351 = 5.078 BTC [+] {5} 
1431437;1457855889;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39000 @ 0.00052157 = 20.3412 BTC [-]
1431438;1457856926;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00052532 = 3.5722 BTC [+]
1431439;1457857658;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84500 @ 0.00052709 = 44.5391 BTC [+] {6} 
1431440;1457859000;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4250 @ 0.00052532 = 2.2326 BTC [-]
1431441;1457860220;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00052431 = 10.5911 BTC [-]
1431442;1457861135;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27503 @ 0.00052338 = 14.3945 BTC [-] {3} 
1431443;1457861379;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00052283 = 6.0648 BTC [-]
1431444;1457861745;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17283 @ 0.00052282 = 9.0359 BTC [-] {2} 
1431445;1457861806;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2617 @ 0.00052182 = 1.3656 BTC [-]
1431446;1457862050;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00052182 = 8.2448 BTC [-]
1431447;1457863270;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28156 @ 0.00052249 = 14.7112 BTC [+]
1431448;1457863880;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38506 @ 0.0005221 = 20.104 BTC [-] {4} 
1431449;1457867052;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12951 @ 0.00052362 = 6.7814 BTC [+]
1431450;1457868577;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36831 @ 0.00052182 = 19.2192 BTC [-] {2} 
1431451;1457868638;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31753 @ 0.00052155 = 16.5608 BTC [-] {5} 
1431452;1457869370;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00052118 = 11.3096 BTC [-]
1431453;1457870346;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14841 @ 0.00052102 = 7.7325 BTC [-] {2} 
1431454;1457870407;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2153 @ 0.00052079 = 1.1213 BTC [-]
1431455;1457871993;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.00052173 = 18.7823 BTC [+] {3} 
1431456;1457872725;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00051998 = 3.0159 BTC [-]
1431457;1457873884;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00052353 = 17.355 BTC [+] {3} 
1431458;1457874860;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33750 @ 0.00052162 = 17.6047 BTC [-] {2} 
1431459;1457874969;danielpbarron;and in the prolly-was-rigged department, AlphaGo is allowed to lose on the 4th match
1431460;1457875022;punkman;danielpbarron: so it's 3-1 now?
1431461;1457875043;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110589 @ 0.00051996 = 57.5019 BTC [-] {6} 
1431462;1457875050;fluffypony;danielpbarron: it's his strategy
1431463;1457875060;fluffypony;lulling him into a false sense of security
1431464;1457875648;danielpbarron;punkman, yep. The win for Sedol is purely conciliatory
1431465;1457876019;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00051985 = 9.6692 BTC [-] {2} 
1431466;1457876103;nubbins`;i admittedly DGAF about sedol vs alphago, but wasn't the series best 3 out of 5?
1431467;1457876227;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i have nfi what's going on with those two articles. they don't even make sense.
1431468;1457876275;mircea_popescu;but as a sidepoint, this "style" thing is a lot like make-up. most young women look great without it ; in some cases, when well applied, can turn even mediocre women into total knockouts. but by the time it's measured by the lb, it ain't doing anyone any good.
1431469;1457876324;mircea_popescu;fluffypony> danielpbarron: it's his strategy <<< well, makes perfect sense. 3-2 win looks a lot better than 5-0 win, sez google pr.
1431470;1457876335;mircea_popescu;they apparently didn't realise this going in. no ai in pr, yet.
1431471;1457876391;shinohai;;;blocks
1431472;1457876392;gribble;402478
1431473;1457878590;TomServo;!up ascii_field
1431474;1457878622;ascii_field;ty TomServo . my relay seems to be b0rked.
1431475;1457878655;ascii_field;mircea_popescu: spent some time going over the games.
1431476;1457878765;ascii_field;the pile of 'yes' bets in the last few hours prior to closing, the particulars of how lee sedol went down, and now the 4th - give me a certain picture.
1431477;1457878947;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38650 @ 0.00051915 = 20.0651 BTC [-] {3} 
1431478;1457879098;ascii_field;in chinese sphere, there are also suspicions, e.g., lee sedol avoided starting ko (which bots have never shined at) until 3rd game, where he did so quite ineptly and after his loss was quite cemented
1431479;1457879539;ascii_field;my hypothesis is that he was not paid to lose, as such, but to keep a particular style of play, and he believed that he could win regardless.
1431480;1457879545;ascii_field;fwiw.
1431481;1457879602;ascii_field;note also that, breaking with tradition, lee sedol's contract for this game included NO payment for showing up, nor a loser's prize
1431482;1457879629;ascii_field;he is playing, we are to believe, for phree...
1431483;1457879759;ascii_field;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431469 << aha.
1431484;1457879759;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 13:38:44; mircea_popescu: fluffypony> danielpbarron: it's his strategy <<< well, makes perfect sense. 3-2 win looks a lot better than 5-0 win, sez google pr.
1431485;1457880106;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7932 @ 0.00051897 = 4.1165 BTC [-]
1431486;1457881509;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00052214 = 4.3077 BTC [+] {2} 
1431487;1457882241;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00052282 = 8.0514 BTC [+]
1431488;1457882668;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00052282 = 3.2415 BTC [+]
1431489;1457882729;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.00052098 = 22.7668 BTC [-] {3} 
1431490;1457882982;thestringpuller;dunno what the hate on Neural Nets is...
1431491;1457883827;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9230 @ 0.00052362 = 4.833 BTC [+] {2} 
1431492;1457884315;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00052161 = 7.6937 BTC [-] {2} 
1431493;1457884437;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00052079 = 17.3163 BTC [-] {3} 
1431494;1457884742;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.0005198 = 17.1534 BTC [-] {2} 
1431495;1457884875;danielpbarron;!up lexborisov
1431496;1457884912;lexborisov;Hi, there!
1431497;1457884926;danielpbarron;hello!
1431498;1457884930;danielpbarron;You must be the 'myhtml' guy
1431499;1457884951;lexborisov;Yes it's me
1431500;1457884960;danielpbarron;glad to see you could make it
1431501;1457885025;danielpbarron;paging punkman asciilifeform mircea_popescu
1431502;1457885096;lexborisov;Sorry, but I do not understand what's going on here. That is what this chat?
1431503;1457885192;danielpbarron;yes it's a public channel in which people with an interest in bitcoin talk about anything
1431504;1457885281;danielpbarron;conversations may take place over long periods of time through use of referencing lines in the public log, which comes in handy when participants are not available to talk at the same time, as seems to be the case at the moment
1431505;1457885325;danielpbarron;for example: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431202
1431506;1457885325;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 13:14:31; mircea_popescu: let me enlighten you : it's "take a string that is definitionally misformed html, aka html soup, and transform it into sufficiently well formed html to render".
1431507;1457885374;danielpbarron;in the meantime, do you have a GPG key lexborisov ?
1431508;1457885495;lexborisov;No, if admit that I do not even know what it is
1431509;1457885524;danielpbarron;here's some reading material : http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/gpg
1431510;1457885525;assbot;gpg [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1V3Y1rI )
1431511;1457885535;lexborisov;I'm from Russia for a long time choosing my words. My English is not so good as we would like. Sorry
1431512;1457885584;danielpbarron;I understand you well enough
1431513;1457885899;lexborisov;I need to get away for awhile. After returning to read through the links
1431514;1457885908;danielpbarron;ok
1431515;1457886124;mircea_popescu;heya lexborisov
1431516;1457886137;mircea_popescu;nice work with the html parser, how's it going ?
1431517;1457887792;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00052383 = 4.6097 BTC [+]
1431518;1457888097;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00052044 = 19.4124 BTC [-] {4} 
1431519;1457889012;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24169 @ 0.00052323 = 12.6459 BTC [+]
1431520;1457889439;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8255 @ 0.0005243 = 4.3281 BTC [+] {2} 
1431521;1457889562;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21251 @ 0.00052014 = 11.0535 BTC [-] {2} 
1431522;1457891025;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00051921 = 4.7767 BTC [-] {2} 
1431523;1457891818;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00051903 = 12.82 BTC [-] {3} 
1431524;1457893465;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7434 @ 0.0005247 = 3.9006 BTC [+]
1431525;1457893865;jurov;http://techrights.org/2016/03/10/charm-offensives-distract/?_utm_source=1-2-2
1431526;1457893871;assbot;Microsoft Has Just Blackmailed Linux Twice in One Single Week and the Media Didn’t Notice or Just Ignored It Because of Microsoft’s Charm Offensives | Techrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1pFcOx1 )
1431527;1457894018;jurov;i wonder what alf will do when he receives inevitable cease and desist letter wrt gossipd/ada/anythingelse patents
1431528;1457894424;ben_vulpes;http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11504377/gdb-fails-with-unable-to-find-mach-task-port-for-process-id-error
1431529;1457894426;assbot;osx - gdb fails with "Unable to find Mach task port for process-id" error - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1QW8qAp )
1431530;1457894433;*;ben_vulpes sighs
1431531;1457894495;*;ben_vulpes sings https://youtu.be/4N7VK7vHwnw?t=37
1431532;1457894496;assbot;Moulin Rouge - Fly Away - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QW8wYI )
1431533;1457894654;ben_vulpes;inanity in detail if anyone cares: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/lldb/lldb-69/docs/code-signing.txt
1431534;1457894655;assbot;code-signing.txt ... ( http://bit.ly/1QW8Oih )
1431535;1457894799;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo i have nfi what's going on with those two articles. they don't even make sense. << I'll get to cutting
1431536;1457895117;danielpbarron;jurov> i wonder what alf will do << lemme try and fill in while he's away : mega-snore! ubuntu, the winbl0wz of linux, thought it could make a smart-f0ne when obviously the mobile world is for usg-blessed corps
1431537;1457895209;danielpbarron;i think there's already a precedent for the other part; see SEC vs MP
1431538;1457895609;*;mod6 has fun with scheme
1431539;1457895723;mod6;im gonna tackle ada this week when my book gets here.
1431540;1457895763;mod6;i did get gnat to work, so at least i can play with sample programs locally etc.
1431541;1457895909;ben_vulpes;here's to the grand unified microsoft-brand-linux-that-can-build-ios-apps
1431542;1457895919;ben_vulpes;let's just cram all the things i hate about my life into one tidy little package
1431543;1457896107;fluffypony;well you can build iOS apps on just about everything, so you can't get away from that
1431544;1457896117;oglafbot;http://oglaf.com/misbegats/
1431545;1457896119;assbot;Misbegats ... ( http://bit.ly/24YAM6y )
1431546;1457896329;ben_vulpes;there is no getting away fluffypony
1431547;1457896336;ben_vulpes;there is only the creeping hell
1431548;1457896339;fluffypony;lol
1431549;1457896458;ben_vulpes;at least i only had to type my password the *first* time i booted bitcoin under gdb
1431550;1457898101;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.0005218 = 10.6186 BTC [-] {2} 
1431551;1457898284;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00052135 = 2.3461 BTC [-] {3} 
1431552;1457898454;danielpbarron;!up ascii_field
1431553;1457898519;ascii_field;in 4th game lee sedol actually decided to play with both hands and wiped the floor with the bot.
1431554;1457898528;ascii_field;mircea_popescu ^
1431555;1457898558;ascii_field;it is a ~recognizably~ leesedolish game
1431556;1457898668;ascii_field;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431536 << danielpbarron has it. ubuntu is not linux.
1431557;1457898668;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 18:51:57; danielpbarron: jurov> i wonder what alf will do << lemme try and fill in while he's away : mega-snore! ubuntu, the winbl0wz of linux, thought it could make a smart-f0ne when obviously the mobile world is for usg-blessed corps
1431558;1457898738;jurov;but i did not ask about ubuntu. i asked about m$ suing you about infringing their patents
1431559;1457898760;jurov;while you dream about sophisticated torture devices
1431560;1457898838;ascii_field;nothing to stop them from doing it right now.
1431561;1457898862;ascii_field;i have nothing with which to defend.
1431562;1457898898;ascii_field;the only reason it has not happened is that i'm ineffective and uninteresting to anyone...
1431563;1457898972;jurov;O.o
1431564;1457898990;ascii_field;well think.
1431565;1457899043;ascii_field;jurov: in usaschwitz, it is enough to be sued, to be driven into penury immediately, you don't even need to lose.
1431566;1457899052;ben_vulpes;ascii_field: your verditc is 'hrown matches'?
1431567;1457899077;ascii_field;ben_vulpes: see logz from earlier today.
1431568;1457899101;ascii_field;ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431479
1431569;1457899101;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 14:32:19; ascii_field: my hypothesis is that he was not paid to lose, as such, but to keep a particular style of play, and he believed that he could win regardless.
1431570;1457899218;ascii_field;jurov: since you mentioned it, i will explain that i can be taken off the gameboard in any of 1,001 different simple ways, by the lizards, and i have no defense, and that you and the rest should expect this to happen sooner or later and study accordingly
1431571;1457899322;ascii_field;i already stand on th board with only one foot, in having lately to spend virtually all of my time working on idiotic rubbish so as to pay the rent.
1431572;1457899431;ascii_field;eventually either the lizards will move, or mircea_popescu will grow tired of me, or my health simply gives out, and mircea_popescu will have to learn ada and relearn numbertheory himself...
1431573;1457899473;mircea_popescu;in other news, bitbet headed into receivership : http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116766
1431574;1457899474;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1phuhuR )
1431575;1457899512;mircea_popescu;i must say the experience has been rather sobering as to all sorts of naive assumptions as to value, wealth and economics in the bitcoin world.
1431576;1457899531;ascii_field;woah
1431577;1457899532;mircea_popescu;ascii_field let me disabuse you of that notion right now.
1431578;1457899544;*;ascii_field takes off hat 
1431579;1457899603;ascii_field;mircea_popescu: which
1431580;1457899637;mircea_popescu;that i'm perpetually going to pick up the pieces. i'm not.
1431581;1457899658;ascii_field;i didn't think so.
1431582;1457899699;mircea_popescu;so then no, mp isn't learning any ada. if mp wanted to learn ada, he would have.
1431583;1457899725;ascii_field;i can more easily see mircea_popescu raising a guerilla army in nepal or the like.
1431584;1457899736;ascii_field;different angle on it all.
1431585;1457899748;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17107 @ 0.00052067 = 8.9071 BTC [-] {2} 
1431586;1457899776;ascii_field;i dun think i ever actually saw mircea_popescu pick up pieces.
1431587;1457899791;mircea_popescu;course not, cuz if you're going to you're best not be seen.
1431588;1457899852;ascii_field;anyway while i expect to eventually be smashed into pieces, i do not expect anyone to actually pick any of them up. nor do i really give a damn.
1431589;1457899870;assbot;[MPEX] [S.BBET] 52962 @ 0.00005 = 2.6481 BTC [-]
1431590;1457899870;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16143 @ 0.00052006 = 8.3953 BTC [-]
1431591;1457899879;ascii_field;!s from:asciilifeform archaeologists
1431592;1457899880;assbot;27 results for 'from:asciilifeform archaeologists' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+archaeologists
1431593;1457901301;BingoBoingo;!up ascii_field
1431594;1457901433;ascii_field;'This line of credit carries seniority above that of shareholders and below that of bettors.' was mircea_popescu's earlier verdict, but now 'Bitbet's liabilities are currently comprised of various bills (such as the 17.94766149 BTC it owes as per this report, such as whatever fee it may owe the receiver for his trouble, and others as may arise), which are the most senior ; with the remainder to go to payouts to th
1431595;1457901433;ascii_field;the least senior.' <<< interesting
1431596;1457901489;ascii_field;is this traditional? (i am not connected with any of this, merely curious how it worx)
1431597;1457901528;ascii_field;also i realized that i never learned what was the logic for 0asset operations ?
1431598;1457901695;ascii_field;bbet long pre-dates my study of mircea_popescutronics, and i have nfi, was the plan that it could never incur unexpected expense ?
1431599;1457901780;ascii_field;(what if someone had stolen the server, like trilema was once stolen? or the like)
1431600;1457901859;ben_vulpes;the problem appears to not be "unexpected expense" but a disagreement between the founders as to the legitimacy of the expense.
1431601;1457901873;jurov;unexpected expenses are different thing than irreconcilable difference between partners
1431602;1457901886;deedbot-;[Qntra] Miner Problem Pushes BitBet Into Recievership - http://qntra.net/2016/03/miner-problem-pushes-bitbet-into-recievership/
1431603;1457901910;ben_vulpes;oh ffs BingoBoingo with the mythical miner cartel
1431604;1457902027;mircea_popescu;ascii_field it's how it's normally done, yes.
1431605;1457902029;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Racial (in)equality and you, or why China’s your daddy. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/13/racial-inequality-and-you-or-why-chinas-your-daddy/
1431606;1457902051;ascii_field;ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1425896
1431607;1457902051;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 23:23:49; asciilifeform: some bastard is running 3000+ sybils. what's unstable here.
1431608;1457902083;ascii_field;mircea_popescu: creditors first, aha, after i asked, i remembered this
1431609;1457902101;mircea_popescu;ascii_field> bbet long pre-dates my study of mircea_popescutronics, and i have nfi <<< it's not terribly clear to me either, after all these years.
1431610;1457902118;ascii_field;wtf mircea_popescu invented it!111
1431611;1457902127;assbot;[MPEX] [S.BBET] 110000 @ 0.00005 = 5.5 BTC [-]
1431612;1457902127;ascii_field;if not him then who.
1431613;1457902152;mircea_popescu;i invent things by degrees and i can't always and on the button answer as to the logic of things. they go in a context. i know for a fact the arrangement make sense in 2012, but entirely hazy as to the reasoning.
1431614;1457902212;ascii_field;i suppose it is true that inventor never has half a clue re the long term.
1431615;1457902216;mircea_popescu;and in spite of being uncharacteristically verbose for a human being... apparently i don't write everything either.
1431616;1457902287;mircea_popescu;anyway, to be perfectly clear, i don't think kakobrekla did anything wrong at any juncture, nor am i privately holding anything against the man. while the outcome is miserable, i dun think there's necessarily much that could have been done to prevent it.
1431617;1457902310;assbot;[MPEX] [S.BBET] 40000 @ 0.00005 = 2 BTC [-]
1431618;1457902371;assbot;[MPEX] [S.BBET] 162122 @ 0.00005 = 8.1061 BTC [-] {2} 
1431619;1457902391;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i'm sorry, what ?
1431620;1457902430;pete_dushenski;my two cents on 0assets was always that it was a nod towards mpex bitcoin businesses having no bounded geographic constraints. '0asset' always meant '0meatspaceasset' in my head.
1431621;1457902473;pete_dushenski;this obviously couldn't strictly be true, but was a more of philosophical consideration to my mind
1431622;1457902493;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15987 @ 0.00052111 = 8.331 BTC [-]
1431623;1457902494;mircea_popescu;there was certainly a tinge of that.
1431624;1457902530;pete_dushenski;for as long as server A in location A' could work just as well as server B in location B', it would hold
1431625;1457902551;ascii_field;yeah but 1 server nuked and you're broke?!
1431626;1457902573;ascii_field;( for example )
1431627;1457902584;pete_dushenski;then too broke for mpex
1431628;1457902603;ascii_field;this is a tank with no armour
1431629;1457902650;pete_dushenski;then don't get hit !
1431630;1457902668;mircea_popescu;hence my comment about fragility. there are two main threads here that would-be bitcoin entrepreneurs must heed quite closely. one is that - your expense structure is not either a) in your own control or b) specificable. for as long as your business model involves bitcoin as it currently exists, you're doing the economic equivalent of linking remote dlls.
1431631;1457902689;ascii_field;even if bitcoin were bulletproof
1431632;1457902694;mircea_popescu;but it is not.
1431633;1457902705;ascii_field;any operation can take damage and run a loss
1431634;1457902706;mircea_popescu;and all sorts of costs that the fiat system eats, are not here eaten by anything.
1431635;1457902720;ascii_field;if 10,001 orcs show up at the gates
1431636;1457902728;pete_dushenski;this at least saves writing out a business plan :)
1431637;1457902742;mircea_popescu;and the other is that very little actual value exists in serving this market.
1431638;1457902769;ascii_field;aha this is sorta like a superconductor, a very small pocket of not-superconducting-no-moar leads to thermal runaway and quench and boom.
1431639;1457902782;mircea_popescu;something like that i guess.
1431640;1457902817;pete_dushenski;i always found it incredible how prominent and successful bbet was, and how little profit it generated from its nearly monopolistic position
1431641;1457902831;ascii_field;and actually yeah, if bbet were yielding 100btc/day or whatever, it could eat the bird in the engine and keep flying
1431642;1457902863;ascii_field;mircea_popescu has grim but 100% accurat point, as often
1431643;1457902868;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski the way start-ups usually work is that they look good, but if forcibly deflated midstride it's tears all around.
1431644;1457902875;ascii_field;in his venetian beak plague mask.
1431645;1457902931;ben_vulpes;"I will simply consider the matter moot." << and keep bettor funds if no receiver steps forward?
1431646;1457902940;pete_dushenski;http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md8oz6nG7x1ra4kiro1_500.jpg << mask
1431647;1457902941;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkVJlK )
1431648;1457902974;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes eventually.
1431649;1457903049;pete_dushenski;muh coinz !!1
1431650;1457903071;mircea_popescu;well what the fuck, i'm not leaving this in my will fee tail.
1431651;1457903111;ben_vulpes;!up ascii_field
1431652;1457903113;ben_vulpes;no ofc not
1431653;1457903150;ascii_field;thing has almost greek tragedic flavour to it.
1431654;1457903175;ben_vulpes;nor can you pay bettors out after yourself in the process of dissolution.
1431655;1457903176;*;pete_dushenski actually currently has as little ballskin in bbet's maws as he has had in 2 years. blessedly!
1431656;1457903179;ben_vulpes;what fucking tragedy.
1431657;1457903225;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5507 @ 0.00052111 = 2.8698 BTC [-]
1431658;1457903270;ascii_field;ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431616
1431659;1457903270;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 20:51:27; mircea_popescu: anyway, to be perfectly clear, i don't think kakobrekla did anything wrong at any juncture, nor am i privately holding anything against the man. while the outcome is miserable, i dun think there's necessarily much that could have been done to prevent it.
1431660;1457903278;pete_dushenski;thank goodness i've been wearing my plague mask in the bedroom of late. it brought me luck!
1431661;1457903281;ascii_field;or ben_vulpes disagrees ?
1431662;1457903301;ascii_field;how would ben_vulpes have played it differently ?
1431663;1457903316;ben_vulpes;i've been told that i have no business saying anything about bitbet's business, ascii_field.
1431664;1457903354;ascii_field;i have equally little business telling lee sedol how to play
1431665;1457903360;ascii_field;but there i go.
1431666;1457903399;pete_dushenski;'teaching birds how to fly' (tm)
1431667;1457903422;pete_dushenski;no wait, it was 'lecturing'
1431668;1457903422;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: into completely opaque steel walls no less.
1431669;1457903449;ascii_field;bird that ends up in engine could have learned something prior ?
1431670;1457903462;ben_vulpes;no fucking engine. brick wall a mile high.
1431671;1457903475;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: heh
1431672;1457903495;pete_dushenski;in other china news, http://www.ejinsight.com/20160312-how-china-sees-trump-and-what-is-missed/
1431673;1457903499;assbot;How China Sees Trump, and what is missed ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgBAJT )
1431674;1457903512;ben_vulpes;elementary questions like "wtf -- paid twice?!" are dismissed with "you just don't understand how bitcoin works".
1431675;1457903534;ben_vulpes;who is going to even contemplate stepping into receiver's role in this context?!
1431676;1457903536;ben_vulpes;jurov?
1431677;1457903545;ben_vulpes;probably /also/ already disqualified for stating his opinions on the matter.
1431678;1457903546;pete_dushenski;"Moneyed folk in Hong Kong know of his phoniness, mainly because of something that happened in the early 1990s. Trump bungled a real estate deal in New York City, one that would have truly established him as a titan of America, and he needed cash fast. He came to Hong Kong looking for investors, and met them for a game of golf. They wanted to play for US$1 million a hole. Trump knew he was out of his league and
1431679;1457903546;pete_dushenski;declined, though he did manage to leave with US$82 million … in exchange for a US$300 million mortgage. When Trump’s investors from Hong Kong cashed out more than a decade later, US$1.8 billion in profits awaited them. Thin-skinned as ever, Trump sued them."
1431680;1457903597;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: i'd open a perimutuel bet that nassim who play receiver, but i don't trust betmoooose
1431681;1457903598;ascii_field;ben_vulpes: folks have destroyed far more precious machines than bbet by elbowing 'wrong button'
1431682;1457903599;jurov;ben_vulpes: and i also have some 0.8btc skin in it
1431683;1457903608;pete_dushenski;s/who/would
1431684;1457903621;mircea_popescu;but let's not talk of things being moot and sad stuff like that. instead : bitbet isn't actually missing any bettor funds, the whole receiver thing could be done in a week.
1431685;1457903643;mircea_popescu;i'd really ask folk in b-a with busienss experience to seriously consider doing this. a clean close-down of a bitcoin venture would be truly an absolute first.
1431686;1457903648;mircea_popescu;like pete_dushenski, you busy ?
1431687;1457903652;ascii_field;mircea_popescu: unless i misread, there is no way it can fully pay out bettors
1431688;1457903671;ben_vulpes;ascii_field: for that to happen, the receiver'd have to invalidate mircea_popescu's charge.
1431689;1457903671;ascii_field;it has to pay back the 17 first, no?
1431690;1457903684;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes so ?
1431691;1457903713;ascii_field;invalidate?
1431692;1457903719;mircea_popescu;ascii_field well no, you know how this sort of thing works ?
1431693;1457903727;ascii_field;how does that work?
1431694;1457903740;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i could probably be walked through it
1431695;1457903756;mircea_popescu;when a venture goes into receivership a person is named (usually by the courts) to receive all the assets, and register all the claims against it. then decide which claims are valiud, and how much they're getting.
1431696;1457903760;ben_vulpes;ascii_field: see 4.
1431697;1457903830;ascii_field;so if receiver decides that all bets pay properly and mircea_popescu gets a 17 btc haircut, mircea_popescu will live with this?
1431698;1457903850;mircea_popescu;well who asks me anything ? i won't like it, but...
1431699;1457903886;mircea_popescu;his job to make this sorta calls.
1431700;1457903907;ascii_field;so it is to be auctioned...
1431701;1457903917;ascii_field;today?
1431702;1457903932;mircea_popescu;uh wtf do you mean today lol.
1431703;1457903960;ascii_field;nfi, and i have no legit reason to care.
1431704;1457903972;ben_vulpes;also auction not the best model, lowest bidding receiver is not a particularly good idea.
1431705;1457903974;mircea_popescu;even if somehow all the ducks got lined up, it needs some publicity.
1431706;1457903994;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i was thinking, interviews. think senate hearings for appointees.
1431707;1457904029;mircea_popescu;course this'd be a senate of two people, but anyway.
1431708;1457904035;ben_vulpes;ultimately though it'd just be you and kako hearing.
1431709;1457904061;ben_vulpes;this is going to be hung, as the receiver will have to answer as to the disposition of your charge, and either way one of the founders is going to refuse an unfriendly nominee.
1431710;1457904065;mircea_popescu;well yeah, if either vetoes very little can be done.
1431711;1457904072;ben_vulpes;nice little construction.
1431712;1457904083;ascii_field;doesn't this permawedge?
1431713;1457904098;mircea_popescu;i don't specifically care. as long as the person seems competent... hey.
1431714;1457904148;ben_vulpes;ascii_field: game theoretically permawedges obviously.
1431715;1457904157;ben_vulpes;perhaps mircea_popescu plays a different game here though.
1431716;1457904188;ascii_field;and as i understand, receiver needs the technical ability to unravel kakobrekla's code
1431717;1457904203;ben_vulpes;and the db.
1431718;1457904210;ascii_field;(because he cannot, no matter what, outsource he task)
1431719;1457904212;ben_vulpes;and be in the wot.
1431720;1457904219;*;BingoBoingo suspects a very mike_c sort of flavor on this job
1431721;1457904232;ascii_field;;;seen mike_c
1431722;1457904232;gribble;mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 12 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
1431723;1457904239;mircea_popescu;maybe dooglus is interested
1431724;1457904248;*;ascii_field bbl
1431725;1457904249;mircea_popescu;iirc he did one of the very few clean closedowns in the space
1431726;1457904269;pete_dushenski;^true
1431727;1457904581;pete_dushenski;;;later tell mats feel like running another audit on bbet's reserve capital ?
1431728;1457904581;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431729;1457904636;pete_dushenski;last one was nigh on two years ago now : http://www.contravex.com/2014/04/07/results-of-first-bitbet-audit-april-7-2014/
1431730;1457904641;mircea_popescu;mats also works, yeah.
1431731;1457904771;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: bbet contract 3.1d refers to 3.1b, correct?
1431732;1457904854;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1431733;1457904950;ben_vulpes;"aforementioned signed document" refers to "special spreadsheet"?
1431734;1457905018;mircea_popescu;seems to talk of a.
1431735;1457905176;ben_vulpes;mk. then the contractual obligation bitbet is failing to uphold leading to its delisting would be kakobrekla's declining to convey his acceptance of the statement, without which shareholders cannot be paid out?
1431736;1457905177;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00052446 = 12.6919 BTC [+] {3} 
1431737;1457905242;mircea_popescu;well, it gotta produce monthly statements. currently we can't do that. mpex wasn't historically very strict with this, but it certainly won't last forever.
1431738;1457905259;mircea_popescu;there's been if memory serves exactly one case of delisted company on these grounds, bvps.
1431739;1457905299;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32185 @ 0.00052111 = 16.7719 BTC [-] {2} 
1431740;1457905360;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00052111 = 1.7457 BTC [-]
1431741;1457905506;pete_dushenski;bbiab
1431742;1457906153;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.0005247 = 8.6313 BTC [+]
1431743;1457907373;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26817 @ 0.00052111 = 13.9746 BTC [-] {2} 
1431744;1457907894;BingoBoingo;!t m s.bbet
1431745;1457907894;assbot;[MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0.00005 / 0.00005001 / 0.000051 (487224 shares, 24.37 BTC), 7D: 0.00005 / 0.00005068 / 0.00008301 (497396 shares, 25.21 BTC), 30D: 0.00005 / 0.00005106 / 0.000105 (502896 shares, 25.68 BTC)
1431746;1457908058;BingoBoingo;Other lulz https://archive.is/BjSxF
1431747;1457908059;assbot;BayAreaCoins , Steven Steiner is showing all the marks of a SCAMMER! ... ( http://bit.ly/1RfJpFS )
1431748;1457909132;pete_dushenski;!up ascii_field
1431749;1457909169;pete_dushenski;if anyone is having trouble accessing contravex, lemme know. just finished blocking a bunch of ip addresses.
1431750;1457909170;ascii_field;anyone else here read the lee sedol games?
1431751;1457909189;ascii_field;( or even care ? )
1431752;1457909203;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19425 @ 0.00052281 = 10.1556 BTC [+] {2} 
1431753;1457909509;pete_dushenski;https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2021568/GRPublishedJELFinal.pdf << "Why Oragnizations Fail : Models and Cases"
1431754;1457909513;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1YOIrjA )
1431755;1457909538;pete_dushenski;"Incentive problems arise due to the presence of asymmetric information or imperfect commitment, which lead agents to act according to their own biases or preferences rather than in the interest of the organization" << timely
1431756;1457910018;pete_dushenski;https://www.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/website/PSUTalk.pdf << on the subject of algebra ii as it relates to social sciences
1431757;1457910020;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1YOJOPd )
1431758;1457910041;pete_dushenski;"Can there be “research in mathematical education”?"
1431759;1457910179;assbot;[MPEX] [S.BBET] 42313 @ 0.00005 = 2.1157 BTC [-]
1431760;1457910545;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80500 @ 0.00052025 = 41.8801 BTC [-] {5} 
1431761;1457910850;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6025 @ 0.00052096 = 3.1388 BTC [+]
1431762;1457911491;TomServo;!up mpSCAM
1431763;1457911513;pete_dushenski;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/1900_killing_of_foreigners.jpg/350px-1900_killing_of_foreigners.jpg << for alf
1431764;1457911513;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1V4TEN2 )
1431765;1457911548;mpSCAM;popescu finally outed as a scammer?
1431766;1457911557;mpSCAM;with bitbet exit scam?
1431767;1457911773;danielpbarron;mpSCAM, who are you?
1431768;1457911984;mpSCAM;daniel did you get owned?
1431769;1457912001;danielpbarron;nope i'm up despite taking a pretty substantial loss on bitbet
1431770;1457912005;mpSCAM;thats what happens when you invest into vice
1431771;1457912013;mpSCAM;with a pornographer like popescu
1431772;1457912028;danielpbarron;so i get profit is what you're saying?
1431773;1457912039;mpSCAM;you got owned popescu games the exchange
1431774;1457912045;mpSCAM;him and jurov
1431775;1457912058;danielpbarron;do you think i'm lying?
1431776;1457912061;mpSCAM;idiot went and sent funds from his personal btc wallet made a mistake
1431777;1457912068;mpSCAM;and tried to blame the miner collusion LOL
1431778;1457912074;danielpbarron;loooky here, either converse with me or i silence you
1431779;1457912099;mpSCAM;whats there to converse
1431780;1457912108;mpSCAM;popescu is a scammer he always was just hid it clever
1431781;1457912116;danielpbarron;!down mpSCAM
1431782;1457912558;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15908 @ 0.00051897 = 8.2558 BTC [-]
1431783;1457913107;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00051897 = 7.7846 BTC [-]
1431784;1457913412;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27699 @ 0.00051867 = 14.3666 BTC [-] {3} 
1431785;1457913587;danielpbarron;!up ascii_field
1431786;1457913633;ascii_field;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431776 << there will be maxint of these now won't there.
1431787;1457913633;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 23:34:21; mpSCAM: idiot went and sent funds from his personal btc wallet made a mistake
1431788;1457913642;ascii_field;from under every rock.
1431789;1457913745;ascii_field;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431738 << was that the one where operator turned out to be a junkie?
1431790;1457913745;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 21:40:59; mircea_popescu: there's been if memory serves exactly one case of delisted company on these grounds, bvps.
1431791;1457914083;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00051898 = 8.3556 BTC [+]
1431792;1457914510;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00051995 = 5.9274 BTC [+]
1431793;1457914669;shinohai;;;later tell mod6 gentoo trb v99995 was a success
1431794;1457914670;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1431795;1457915120;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00051993 = 19.4454 BTC [-]
1431796;1457916084;mod6;shinohai: good to hear.
1431797;1457916092;mod6;thanks for testing that out
1431798;1457916111;mod6;<+ascii_field> from under every rock. << yes, im sure.
1431799;1457916645;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87000 @ 0.00051904 = 45.1565 BTC [-] {4} 
1431800;1457917011;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00051847 = 3.3182 BTC [-]
1431801;1457917194;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9926 @ 0.00051847 = 5.1463 BTC [-]
1431802;1457917438;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20428 @ 0.00051845 = 10.5909 BTC [-] {2} 
1431803;1457918478;adlai;asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431750 << yes, although i have even less business telling him how to play than you do
1431804;1457918478;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 22:46:10; ascii_field: anyone else here read the lee sedol games?
1431805;1457918597;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70300 @ 0.00051835 = 36.44 BTC [-] {2} 
1431806;1457919060;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: why do you hate neural nets? what did they ever do to you?
1431807;1457919573;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108000 @ 0.00052182 = 56.3566 BTC [+] {4} 
1431808;1457919802;adlai;thestringpuller: i was gonna link you to `!s from:ascii ersatz` but you're right there
1431809;1457919905;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: does the bbet receiver have the authority to determine the cut-off date for acceptable wager resolutions and to refund any bets submitted but deemed "too far away" for the receiver to reasonably hold the funds in escrow ? or is this line in the sand to be drawn by you and kakobrekla ?
1431810;1457919961;danielpbarron;oo maybe i get my trump coin back! :/
1431811;1457920000;thestringpuller;danielpbarron: you familiar with the Windsor area in CT?
1431812;1457920016;danielpbarron;the name sounds familiar, but no
1431813;1457920030;thestringpuller;ah. different part of CT you are from.
1431814;1457920034;*;thestringpuller was born in hartford.
1431815;1457920046;thestringpuller;New England has the best pizza ever.
1431816;1457920060;danielpbarron;i mostly know middlesex and fairfield counties
1431817;1457920671;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00051818 = 36.2208 BTC [-] {8} 
1431818;1457920732;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 369170 @ 0.00051708 = 190.8904 BTC [-] {13} 
1431819;1457920793;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130830 @ 0.00051563 = 67.4599 BTC [-] {6} 
1431820;1457921515;danielpbarron;!up xm2hi
1431821;1457921548;xm2hi;thank you!
1431822;1457921573;nubbins`;well then!
1431823;1457921577;danielpbarron;sure, what's up?
1431824;1457921643;xm2hi;getting to know the you guys.
1431825;1457921649;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431596 << i can't imagine any good-faith receiver honouring these terms, no.
1431826;1457921649;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 20:38:09; ascii_field: is this traditional? (i am not connected with any of this, merely curious how it worx)
1431827;1457921701;danielpbarron;xm2hi, well who are you?
1431828;1457921728;xm2hi;based in malaysia
1431829;1457921765;nubbins`;welcome xm2hi
1431830;1457921774;danielpbarron;that would be where are you
1431831;1457921776;xm2hi;spent the whole weekend reading MPEX
1431832;1457921801;danielpbarron;you mean reading the listing agreements?
1431833;1457921859;nubbins`;i'd say many people are reading the listing agreements
1431834;1457921868;xm2hi;yeah, and about the ecosystem that Mircea has created. impressive records.
1431835;1457921930;xm2hi;and learning about the risk management.
1431836;1457921994;danielpbarron;i was gonna say, it took you all weekend to read them? but that last bit is probably more than a weekend long read
1431837;1457922196;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.00052124 = 32.0302 BTC [+] {2} 
1431838;1457922197;xm2hi;yeah....LOL eyes are a bit blur now.
1431839;1457922261;xm2hi;shall get into WOT soon
1431840;1457922315;xm2hi;bye for now @danielpbarron
1431841;1457922928;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76407 @ 0.00052096 = 39.805 BTC [-]
1431842;1457923111;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88800 @ 0.00051625 = 45.843 BTC [-] {2} 
1431843;1457923513;*;adlai wonders who's bot(s) is/are still buying all this S.BBET (at bargain prices!)
1431844;1457924010;adlai;or rather, the better question for discussion - why would anybody want to own shares now?
1431845;1457924073;danielpbarron;>> (a)The representatives of BitBet have elected to divide BitBet into 10`000`000 (ten million) equal non-voting shares with a total equity value of 100 BTC (0.00001 BTC each). In the event of liquidation or breach of this Agreement they solemnly promise and warrant to repay all investors holding shares at this minimum value.
1431846;1457924115;danielpbarron;>> (j) In the event of the sale of BitBet or voluntary liquidation thereof, all proceeds will be distributed fairly to all shareholders by proportion to the shares they hold.
1431847;1457924357;danielpbarron;!up punkman
1431848;1457924405;punkman;would that 100btc have to come out of bet money?
1431849;1457924575;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76950 @ 0.00051483 = 39.6162 BTC [-] {3} 
1431850;1457924658;punkman;seems like S.MPOE holders didn't like the bbet announcement
1431851;1457925124;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19639 @ 0.00051625 = 10.1386 BTC [+]
1431852;1457925185;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50750 @ 0.00051625 = 26.1997 BTC [+]
1431853;1457926466;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41200 @ 0.00051625 = 21.2695 BTC [+]
1431854;1457926986;nubbins`;danielpbarron does that say that mp and kakobrekla are on the hook for the 0.00001 BTC per share? it says "the representatives", "they solemnly promise and warrant"
1431855;1457927442;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.00051625 = 35.7245 BTC [+]
1431856;1457927547;nubbins`;ah appears so, altho it is only ~30 btc
1431857;1457927728;nubbins`;about 750 btc in outstanding bets
1431858;1457928357;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56850 @ 0.00051474 = 29.263 BTC [-]
1431859;1457928605;nubbins`;!up The20YearIRCloud
1431860;1457928608;nubbins`;hi
1431861;1457928662;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56282 @ 0.00051471 = 28.9689 BTC [-] {2} 
1431862;1457929076;The20YearIRCloud;Still alive
1431863;1457929211;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63122 @ 0.00051418 = 32.4561 BTC [-]
1431864;1457929760;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150500 @ 0.00051379 = 77.3254 BTC [-] {6} 
1431865;1457930553;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11804 @ 0.00051625 = 6.0938 BTC [+]
1431866;1457931285;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100338 @ 0.00051786 = 51.961 BTC [+]
1431867;1457931407;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101972 @ 0.00051349 = 52.3616 BTC [-] {3} 
1431868;1457931773;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33781 @ 0.00051272 = 17.3202 BTC [-] {4} 
1431869;1457933176;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24050 @ 0.00051475 = 12.3797 BTC [+] {2} 
1431870;1457933664;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00051594 = 1.5478 BTC [+] {2} 
1431871;1457933786;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4499 @ 0.00051595 = 2.3213 BTC [+]
1431872;1457933969;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68350 @ 0.00051457 = 35.1709 BTC [-] {4} 
1431873;1457934274;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22150 @ 0.00051272 = 11.3567 BTC [-]
1431874;1457934640;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 183878 @ 0.00051227 = 94.1952 BTC [-] {12} 
1431875;1457935007;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431681 << a) a rose by any other trust backers would smell as sweet i'm sure b) i missed the part of this saga where this is not the
1431876;1457935007;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 21:13:18; ascii_field: ben_vulpes: folks have destroyed far more precious machines than bbet by elbowing 'wrong button'
1431877;1457935026;ben_vulpes;'not ready for primetime' fault of bitcoin
1431878;1457935296;deedbot-;[Qntra] John Kasich Is America - http://qntra.net/2016/03/john-kasich-is-america/
1431879;1457935372;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00051532 = 17.8816 BTC [+]
1431880;1457935470;BingoBoingo;^ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431302
1431881;1457935470;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 18:43:24; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo guy's pretty lulzy. piece pumping him, large lulz potential. jus' sayin'.
1431882;1457935490;BingoBoingo;Please feel free to add further lulz in comments
1431883;1457935811;*;adlai gives up, after a dozen painful minutes spent trying to squeeze a beatbetification pun out of rosy-smelling corpsorations
1431884;1457936422;BingoBoingo;;;bcstats
1431885;1457936425;gribble;Current Blocks: 402567 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 632 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 19 hours, 47 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1431886;1457936435;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1431887;1457936441;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 414.86, vol: 4024.57960254 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.193, vol: 2839.34471 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.4, vol: 10951.16911885 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 405.0, vol: 1.33 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 420.27693, vol: 25208.39880000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 413.78, vol: 2995.95622037 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 419.7518, vol: 10.61601934 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1431888;1457936449;BingoBoingo;;;more
1431889;1457936449;gribble;418.082285048
1431890;1457936592;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87154 @ 0.00051076 = 44.5148 BTC [-] {2} 
1431891;1457936709;*;adlai must admit that before reading this latest article, he wasn't sure which party kasich celebrates; and that is still the case
1431892;1457936729;adlai;probably best to leave it thus; 'math is hard'!
1431893;1457936836;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46950 @ 0.0005094 = 23.9163 BTC [-] {2} 
1431894;1457936921;BingoBoingo;adlai: 'Murican politics is like pop kabala, it's nihilism and fraud all the way down
1431895;1457937938;BingoBoingo;For the EE nerds
1431896;1457938075;BingoBoingo;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cdb4JZ5XIAA-PBD.jpg
1431897;1457938076;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1YPN3Ww )
1431898;1457938117;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5708 @ 0.00050928 = 2.907 BTC [-]
1431899;1457939083;*;adlai might actually like it in that case,, being a nihilistic fraud himself!
1431900;1457939154;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28176 @ 0.00051026 = 14.3771 BTC [+] {2} 
1431901;1457939337;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33162 @ 0.00050921 = 16.8864 BTC [-] {2} 
1431902;1457939398;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77738 @ 0.00050871 = 39.5461 BTC [-]
1431903;1457940130;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63400 @ 0.00051034 = 32.3556 BTC [+] {3} 
1431904;1457941722;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1431905;1457941723;gribble;1115867657.85
1431906;1457942509;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70350 @ 0.00050843 = 35.7681 BTC [-] {4} 
1431907;1457942876;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45700 @ 0.00051038 = 23.3244 BTC [+] {2} 
1431908;1457943119;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120507 @ 0.00050825 = 61.2477 BTC [-] {7} 
1431909;1457943241;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109300 @ 0.00050755 = 55.4752 BTC [-] {4} 
1431910;1457943607;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64593 @ 0.00050548 = 32.6505 BTC [-] {3} 
1431911;1457944217;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83650 @ 0.00050505 = 42.2474 BTC [-] {2} 
1431912;1457945193;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00050948 = 14.9278 BTC [+]
1431913;1457946108;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72600 @ 0.00050948 = 36.9882 BTC [+]
1431914;1457946169;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00050948 = 11.769 BTC [+]
1431915;1457946413;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33920 @ 0.0005113 = 17.3433 BTC [+] {3} 
1431916;1457947511;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47322 @ 0.00050899 = 24.0864 BTC [-] {4} 
1431917;1457948426;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.00050796 = 26.4647 BTC [+]
1431918;1457948670;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74900 @ 0.00050624 = 37.9174 BTC [-] {3} 
1431919;1457949463;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 145500 @ 0.00050433 = 73.38 BTC [-] {2} 
1431920;1457950622;assbot;[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 2305 @ 0.00277777 = 6.4028 BTC [-]
1431921;1457950824;mircea_popescu;ascii_field> anyone else here read the lee sedol games? << i've looked through.
1431922;1457950908;mircea_popescu;<ascii_field> was that the one where operator turned out to be << yes, with the reserve these ex post facto "turned out to be" things deserve.
1431923;1457951091;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski> mircea_popescu: does the bbet receiver have the authority to determine the cut-off date for acceptable wager resolutions and to refund any bets submitted but deemed "too far away" for the receiver to reasonably hold the funds in escrow ? or is this line in the sand to be drawn by you and kakobrekla ? << in general this'd be the receiver's authority. a reasonable path is you know, get the domain, put up
1431924;1457951092;mircea_popescu;a "bitbet is in receivership, send no more bets" thing, give it a week or w/e. i doubt the receiver would have to wait out any ongoing bets, can prolly just refund if the reasonable resolution is too far away in the future.
1431925;1457951103;mircea_popescu;but yes, by and large there's a lot of discretionary room for receiver.
1431926;1457951152;mircea_popescu;xm2hi> yeah, and about the ecosystem that Mircea has created. impressive records. << - >> ascii_field>  << there will be maxint of these now won't there.
1431927;1457951168;mircea_popescu;of both kinds, i guess. with any luck, balance shifts slowly to the left as time goes on.
1431928;1457951253;mircea_popescu;punkman> would that 100btc have to come out of bet money? << what 100 btc ?
1431929;1457951293;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100002 @ 0.00050553 = 50.554 BTC [+] {3} 
1431930;1457951418;mircea_popescu;look at that, archive.is went away ?
1431931;1457951659;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93900 @ 0.0005056 = 47.4758 BTC [+]
1431932;1457951664;mircea_popescu;old links still work, main page tho is borkt. mebbe it comes back.
1431933;1457951978;mircea_popescu;punkman ah, no, i can't read it that way.
1431934;1457952490;shinohai;;;blocks
1431935;1457952496;gribble;{"blockcount":402601}
1431936;1457952757;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85300 @ 0.00050888 = 43.4075 BTC [+] {2} 
1431937;1457952818;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.0005101 = 26.0916 BTC [+] {2} 
1431938;1457952879;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83513 @ 0.00050468 = 42.1473 BTC [-] {4} 
1431939;1457953001;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47600 @ 0.00050289 = 23.9376 BTC [-] {5} 
1431940;1457953118;nubbins`;punkman 70 of those 100 btc belong to mp/kako anyway
1431941;1457953136;nubbins`;the remaining 30 would come outta mp's/kako's pockets
1431942;1457953277;nubbins`;as per listing agreement
1431943;1457953300;nubbins`;(ipo proceeds were paid directly to mp/kako rather than to bbet)
1431944;1457953349;nubbins`;see 3.2 (c), (f)
1431945;1457953469;nubbins`;altho i guess technically they also could have sold 1mn shares each from 3.2 (f)
1431946;1457953491;nubbins`;so the outstanding liabilities to shareholders could be as high as 50%, tho i doubt it.
1431947;1457953611;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50004 @ 0.00050179 = 25.0915 BTC [-] {2} 
1431948;1457953916;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120477 @ 0.00049876 = 60.0891 BTC [-] {4} 
1431949;1457953977;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51328 @ 0.00049322 = 25.316 BTC [-] {2} 
1431950;1457956556;polarbeard;sup trb, any development going on since my patches got fired? B)
1431951;1457956600;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68650 @ 0.0004427 = 30.3914 BTC [-] {2} 
1431952;1457956802;shinohai;"Unrelated but why is this site's logo a bunny on a fucking Confederate flag?"
1431953;1457956834;mircea_popescu;polarbeard not afaik. how you been ?
1431954;1457956876;polarbeard;very busy in meatspace
1431955;1457956914;polarbeard;but I'm still working in my little scheme-abomination, just slowly
1431956;1457956935;mircea_popescu;cool.
1431957;1457957009;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Rest Easy - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/rest-easy/
1431958;1457957299;deedbot-;[Trilema] Gangs of New York - http://trilema.com/2016/gangs-of-new-york/
1431959;1457957820;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50448 @ 0.00044269 = 22.3328 BTC [-] {2} 
1431960;1457957881;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8502 @ 0.00044016 = 3.7422 BTC [-]
1431961;1457957994;mircea_popescu;" This firm grasp of sex and gender allowed Kasich to authoritatively heap praise on the legions of women who left their kitchens to help his campaign (archived)."
1431962;1457957997;mircea_popescu;ahaha ok pretty good.
1431963;1457958254;thestringpuller;meatspace is always over busy. if only traffic didn't exist.
1431964;1457958430;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41184 @ 0.00044016 = 18.1275 BTC [-] {2} 
1431965;1457958869;polarbeard;it actually doesn't for despicable cyclists like me
1431966;1457958979;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57067 @ 0.00044414 = 25.3457 BTC [+] {2} 
1431967;1457959110;thestringpuller;polarbeard: what is mileage of your commute?
1431968;1457959162;assbot;[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 1122 @ 0.00277777 = 3.1167 BTC [-]
1431969;1457959184;thestringpuller;;ticker --market all
1431970;1457959187;thestringpuller;;;ticker --market all
1431971;1457959194;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 414.19, vol: 3554.76960751 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 410.0, vol: 5376.37856 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 414.15, vol: 9901.60494268 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 405.0, vol: 1.33 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.679022, vol: 24536.31580000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 412.074, vol: 3161.77970659 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 418.822623, vol: 23.11506716 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1431972;1457959198;thestringpuller;;;more
1431973;1457959199;gribble;416.448858518
1431974;1457959223;polarbeard;I don't commute, code can be transfered over the wire :)
1431975;1457959237;mircea_popescu;you should hold a class in that wonder.
1431976;1457959305;thestringpuller;only if my coworkers actually worked as they do here when working from home
1431977;1457959330;polarbeard;sheep must be managed in large groups
1431978;1457960260;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100300 @ 0.00044016 = 44.148 BTC [-]
1431979;1457961114;assbot;[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 607 @ 0.00277777 = 1.6861 BTC [-]
1431980;1457961377;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1431921 << it came out that the bot only is able to think about a dozen moves forward, and if none too much branching.
1431981;1457961377;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 10:20:24; mircea_popescu: ascii_field> anyone else here read the lee sedol games? << i've looked through.
1431982;1457961393;asciilifeform;ersatz.
1431983;1457961487;mircea_popescu;i guess either we see a bunch of more games where this theory is tested, or else the great achievement goes into storage to keep the d-wave company.
1431984;1457961509;asciilifeform;other champs already lining up to play
1431985;1457961516;asciilifeform;lessee if they let'em.
1431986;1457961535;asciilifeform;5th game - tonight.
1431987;1457961542;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86600 @ 0.00044016 = 38.1179 BTC [-]
1431988;1457961542;asciilifeform;iirc
1431989;1457961615;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1431896 << definitely in the logz
1431990;1457961615;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 06:47:55; BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cdb4JZ5XIAA-PBD.jpg
1431991;1457962079;asciilifeform;!up Saweighfteen
1431992;1457962146;Saweighfteen;thankyou
1431993;1457962157;asciilifeform;Saweighfteen: and who might you be ?
1431994;1457962208;Saweighfteen;slightly less than sixteen; popbabyly unwelcome
1431995;1457962222;mircea_popescu;this may be the first case of a person who is an age.
1431996;1457962231;asciilifeform;^
1431997;1457962257;asciilifeform;Saweighfteen: you stand for all slightly younger than 16 ? e.g., mozart at 15 ?
1431998;1457962271;asciilifeform;how does this work
1431999;1457962286;Saweighfteen;erp..
1432000;1457962309;Saweighfteen;lost for words
1432001;1457962328;asciilifeform;Saweighfteen: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com >> enjoy the logz.
1432002;1457962329;assbot;#bitcoin-assets log ... ( http://bit.ly/1k33Uab )
1432003;1457962517;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109223 @ 0.00044088 = 48.1542 BTC [+] {2} 
1432004;1457962944;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.0004437 = 2.3072 BTC [+]
1432005;1457963249;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107100 @ 0.00044146 = 47.2804 BTC [-]
1432006;1457963475;Saweighfteen;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f59nxsrtm8U
1432007;1457963476;assbot;Hotel Garuda - Smoke Signals - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UsMZLP )
1432008;1457963493;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85071 @ 0.00044016 = 37.4449 BTC [-] {2} 
1432009;1457963615;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69484 @ 0.00043844 = 30.4646 BTC [-] {2} 
1432010;1457964101;asciilifeform;http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/03/14/one-of-the-worlds-most-notorious-hackers-just-revealed-his-identity-to-me << lulzy imbecilic 'l3337 h4xx000rz' piece. even features the obligatory romania.
1432011;1457964103;assbot;One of the world’s most notorious hackers just revealed his identity to me ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj5Jld )
1432012;1457964170;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu will love http://woodcoin.xyz/woodcoin/2016-03-14#i_35977
1432013;1457964172;assbot;IRC log for #woodcoin, 2016-03-14 ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj5RRG )
1432014;1457964181;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: http://www.wired.com/2002/03/aigames/ << although a snorefest to you, this is the article that got me into AI
1432015;1457964204;thestringpuller;I have a soft spot for neural networks cause I spent many of my 8th grade lunches in the library building them.
1432016;1457964266;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: i did also. and we had a sorta diploma work thesis at the school i went to, and mine was re: feasibility of solving go via neural net...
1432017;1457964322;asciilifeform;(even worked lisp into it. but this was a dead end thing and i guarantee that it is not interesting to anybody today)
1432018;1457964344;asciilifeform;while we're on the subject, who recalls that arsebook also has a go thing?
1432019;1457964352;thestringpuller;It would seem Go or any game is playable via neural net if you train the net well enough?
1432020;1457964366;asciilifeform;and, unlike google, theirs has none of the secretive derpitude, it plays on kgs, they post progress reports, etc.
1432021;1457964373;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: nn forgets as readily as it learns
1432022;1457964388;asciilifeform;which is why google's thing uses montecarlo method as heavily as nn
1432023;1457964391;asciilifeform;it is 'dragon with two heads'
1432024;1457964396;thestringpuller;that was what I focused on the most in 8th grade - LTM in neural netowkrs
1432025;1457964407;asciilifeform;i will also point out that google INVENTED NOTHING for this item
1432026;1457964427;asciilifeform;it is simply 'throw infinite money at decade-old algos'
1432027;1457964448;thestringpuller;The algo's imo were ahead of their time. Hopfield nets et. al.
1432028;1457964481;thestringpuller;that's why that article was so interesting to me as a 13 year old since the AI in games was exhibiting emergent behavior not seen previously. (or at least throughout my childhood)
1432029;1457964509;asciilifeform;i would read it, but it barfs, 'ad blocker detected', etc
1432030;1457964510;asciilifeform;fuck wired.
1432031;1457964519;asciilifeform;with hot poker.
1432032;1457964629;thestringpuller;I'll text-ify it later. But I guess point it, don't you think computational power plays a role in what AI does in practice?
1432033;1457964642;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: see the mega-thread re: same,
1432034;1457964677;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427845
1432035;1457964677;assbot;Logged on 09-03-2016 16:19:22; asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there were once two schools of thought re: how to do 'ai'
1432036;1457965107;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: see, in particular, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-01-2016#1386298
1432037;1457965107;assbot;Logged on 26-01-2016 17:20:06; ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
1432038;1457965571;thestringpuller;that seems to be a practical problem of neural nets. had an ex who's best friend's dad at the time worked on AI. He told me this story about how they were training a neural net to identify enemy tanks from allied tanks. well all the allied tanks had good pictures. the enemy tanks were recon photos taken at night. So the nn ended up learning to tell difference between photos taken at night vs day
1432039;1457965989;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431630 <<  if the summarized version of this is "it sometimes costs money to do things", then i guess all businesses have an uncontrollable, unspecified expense structure
1432040;1457965989;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 20:57:48; mircea_popescu: hence my comment about fragility. there are two main threads here that would-be bitcoin entrepreneurs must heed quite closely. one is that - your expense structure is not either a) in your own control or b) specificable. for as long as your business model involves bitcoin as it currently exists, you're doing the economic equivalent of linking remote dlls.
1432041;1457965996;nubbins`;hot dog vendor: "what if the price of buns goes up?"
1432042;1457966113;thestringpuller;not everyone can have a fully vertically integrated business from the get go
1432043;1457966124;nubbins`;indeed
1432044;1457966136;thestringpuller;last time americans tried that all we got were these lousy anti-trust laws
1432045;1457966155;nubbins`;hey, do you guys remember yesterday when MP said he'd steal 750 BTC worth of outstanding bets if he can't find a receiver for bitbet?
1432046;1457966173;thestringpuller;log?
1432047;1457966183;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431645
1432048;1457966183;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 21:02:11; ben_vulpes: "I will simply consider the matter moot." << and keep bettor funds if no receiver steps forward?
1432049;1457966192;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431648
1432050;1457966192;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 21:02:54; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes eventually.
1432051;1457966231;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what would you do in his place? spend the rest of your life waiting for a receiver ?
1432052;1457966239;asciilifeform;give to the first hobo who asks ?
1432053;1457966244;nubbins`;"the rest of your life"
1432054;1457966252;nubbins`;what's the maximum allowed length of a bet on bitbet?
1432055;1457966260;asciilifeform;ask kakobrekla ?
1432056;1457966261;asciilifeform;i have nfi
1432057;1457966265;kakobrekla;1 year
1432058;1457966269;nubbins`;it's not measured in lifespans
1432059;1457966290;asciilifeform;nubbins`: yes well the question was not about bets. it was about how long you would have mircea_popescu wait for a receiver.
1432060;1457966303;asciilifeform;even if all bets run to term, bbet still has to be operated by somebody
1432061;1457966314;asciilifeform;to pay'em out
1432062;1457966323;nubbins`;asciilifeform i'm not the one who introduced "rest of your life" absurdity here
1432063;1457966330;asciilifeform;nubbins`: so you would operate it yourself, for no reward, for a year ?
1432064;1457966345;asciilifeform;how is that different from ' mircea_popescu ought to have eaten the loss '
1432065;1457966346;kakobrekla;it would be trivial for me to generate a list (and for him to confirm its legit) of bettors that need to be refunded, he can then take a haircut for the expenses that brought bb down (nothing i can do bout it) and case closed
1432066;1457966351;nubbins`;no, i'd tell bettors to sign a statement with the address they used to fund their bets, in order to receive a refund
1432067;1457966369;nubbins`;if i couldn't bear to wait X amount of time
1432068;1457966420;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: i forget, did you ever write at length re: your side of the unpleasantries ?
1432069;1457966448;asciilifeform;because right now the only thing i read was mircea_popescu's 'and kakobrekla refused...' thing
1432070;1457966465;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: was is essentially what nubbins` said earlier ?
1432071;1457966512;kakobrekla;i can publish if someone wants to read. in very short, its: no skin in the game - no game
1432072;1457966526;asciilifeform;i will read it, for my own education
1432073;1457966534;asciilifeform;but i think i can infer what it was, from above
1432074;1457966543;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00043925 = 14.671 BTC [+] {2} 
1432075;1457966562;asciilifeform;if kakobrekla gets no dividends for a year+, he must do something else to pay bills..?
1432076;1457966607;kakobrekla;i dont think dividends ever paid the bills.
1432077;1457966632;nubbins`;asciilifeform at the risk of once again putting words in kakobrekla's mouth, i think it's just a case of kako being unwilling to sign off on "expenses" introduced by mp that kako felt were not legit
1432078;1457966642;asciilifeform;then presumably kakobrekla would still have 'skin in the game' ?
1432079;1457966646;nubbins`;at which point mp's ego took the wheel
1432080;1457966666;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85309 @ 0.00043847 = 37.4054 BTC [-] {2} 
1432081;1457966798;kakobrekla;speaking of: i had a 0 fee transaction confirmed today. it was made by mistake on or before 26 feb. and was not visible on any block explorer for the period of 18 days.
1432082;1457966813;kakobrekla;miners konspiraci ? no. inconsistent relay policies? yes.
1432083;1457966818;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: was it high-S ?
1432084;1457966831;nubbins`;was there a massive mempool backlog?
1432085;1457967031;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 276055 @ 0.00043834 = 121.0059 BTC [-] {5} 
1432086;1457967080;kakobrekla;it seems low s.
1432087;1457967096;phf;"it is impermissible and foreign to the spirit of marxism-leninism to elevate one person, to transform him into a superman possessing supernatural characteristics akin to those of a god."
1432088;1457967130;kakobrekla;nubbins` i dont have any data on mempool backlog during the period
1432089;1457967172;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432087 << danielpbarron the bible says something similar to this, no?
1432090;1457967172;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 14:51:36; phf: "it is impermissible and foreign to the spirit of marxism-leninism to elevate one person, to transform him into a superman possessing supernatural characteristics akin to those of a god."
1432091;1457967186;nubbins`;not re:marxism-leninism of course
1432092;1457967727;asciilifeform;!up snorera
1432093;1457967800;nubbins`;!v assbot:nubbins`.rate.kakobrekla.5:3dd5c75e6eb580d676a8bec10313e0623b3ffc472704cfc7f67d01d4cb8244a9
1432094;1457967800;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 5 for kakobrekla with note: a principled and honourable businessman.
1432095;1457967912;snorera;pool??
1432096;1457967940;snorera;pool
1432097;1457967945;nubbins`;pool party
1432098;1457967963;snorera;dont leave any beard bits in the water pls
1432099;1457967986;nubbins`;i'm clean-shaven these days
1432100;1457967988;nubbins`;no worries
1432101;1457968054;snorera;so  they're pubes?
1432102;1457968112;snorera;or someone dropped a fucking polar bear orf the deep end
1432103;1457968129;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122002 @ 0.00043623 = 53.2209 BTC [-] {4} 
1432104;1457968174;nubbins`;hard to say what happened
1432105;1457968213;nubbins`;http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE looks like the market's reacting pretty strongly to mp's rashness
1432106;1457968215;assbot;S.MPOE last 86@0.00043554 ... ( http://bit.ly/1USv0yT )
1432107;1457968220;nubbins`;massive sells today
1432108;1457968335;nubbins`;smth like 2000 btc worth?
1432109;1457968347;snorera;you??
1432110;1457968362;nubbins`;;;calc 2000*[ticker --last]
1432111;1457968363;gribble;829100
1432112;1457968394;nubbins`;bbl
1432113;1457968447;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i thought you did not believe that mpoe was a market ?
1432114;1457968492;nubbins`;in the sense that a lemonade stand is not a food service business, regardless of the nickels rolling around the lemons
1432115;1457968537;asciilifeform;nubbins`: and who then was 'actual business' ? mtgox ?
1432116;1457968540;asciilifeform;usgbase ?
1432117;1457968552;asciilifeform;havel0l ?
1432118;1457968561;nubbins`;no, although mp's demonstrated a karpeles-esque mastery of the protocol lately
1432119;1457968602;asciilifeform;no, srsly, mp's elbow button aside, who is the example nubbins` would have us learn from ?
1432120;1457968618;nubbins`;sadly, none exists
1432121;1457968620;thestringpuller;i would say brian armstrong
1432122;1457968626;thestringpuller;he is the best thing bitcoin has to offer
1432123;1457968632;asciilifeform;waiwut
1432124;1457968632;thestringpuller;maybe Olivier Janssens?
1432125;1457968673;nubbins`;asciilifeform hanbot had some pretty sage advice a few years back that was severely overlooked by all parties
1432126;1457968687;thestringpuller;how to start a bitcoin business
1432127;1457968697;snorera;hanbot's hot
1432128;1457968711;asciilifeform;nubbins`: hanbot's advice was derived from working with mptronics
1432129;1457968718;snorera;doubtful she can sage too hard
1432130;1457968723;nubbins`;asciilifeform agreed
1432131;1457968725;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg3642934#msg3642934
1432132;1457968727;assbot;BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1p6Dw0X )
1432133;1457968738;nubbins`;"Failing to use tx fees is mooching. Using a (notoriously inept) "service" that fails to use tx fees is also mooching."
1432134;1457968755;nubbins`;sadly, even though mp worked with mptronics, he failed to heed this advice
1432135;1457968758;thestringpuller;was there ever a reason for using no tx fee?
1432136;1457968764;nubbins`;thestringpuller idiocy / cheapness
1432137;1457968769;snorera;yeah, to save b
1432138;1457968776;nubbins`;a desire to see the world bend instead of him, etc
1432139;1457968785;thestringpuller;this is what was stated why the payouts were using 0-fee tx?
1432140;1457968790;nubbins`;"i shouldn't have to pay fee because i'm me"
1432141;1457968792;nubbins`;take your pick
1432142;1457968811;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what would have been your conclusion if he had transmitted with a fee but same thing happened ?
1432143;1457968811;thestringpuller;I'm still confused I guess as to why no fee was used for the payouts..........
1432144;1457968834;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: that happened, and we found it was tx malleability, not a cartel...
1432145;1457968843;snorera;^what alf said, fee or no, it's protocol
1432146;1457968853;nubbins`;asciilifeform what would have been your conclusion if wednesday was the colour magenta? what, are we discussing hypotheticals now?
1432147;1457968858;asciilifeform;yes.
1432148;1457968864;nubbins`;no.
1432149;1457968868;snorera;yhes
1432150;1457968934;nubbins`;asciilifeform what would have been your conclusion if he had paid out bettors 1000 times from 1000 different inputs?
1432151;1457968951;nubbins`;i'm not interested in discussing what my conclusion would have been if something that didn't happen happened.
1432152;1457968975;nubbins`;"what if you had to pick between being electrocuted by your penis and having mr. peanut officiate your wedding?"
1432153;1457968977;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i have nfi why he transmitted without fee. just as i have nfi why the operators at chernobyl reactor 4 wanted to 'test'
1432154;1457968981;asciilifeform;http://chernobylgallery.com/chernobyl-disaster/cause << see also
1432155;1457968983;assbot;What Caused The Disaster | The Chernobyl Gallery ... ( http://bit.ly/1V6J1sZ )
1432156;1457968994;nubbins`;asciilifeform see the ocean ranger disaster for another NFI situation
1432157;1457969008;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: pretty difficult to test a defective reactor
1432158;1457969024;nubbins`;asciilifeform but the set of possible reasons is finite and bounded
1432159;1457969026;thestringpuller;iirc that wouldn't have happened with a legit reactor
1432160;1457969034;nubbins`;anyway! bbl
1432161;1457969074;nubbins`;i'll leave you with one more nugget of applicable advice from hanbot
1432162;1457969075;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg3644723#msg3644723
1432163;1457969076;assbot;BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1V6JdIE )
1432164;1457969110;nubbins`;You weren't caught in some occult and unknowable coincidence that was out of your hands [when you chose to send a 0-fee tx and you got bitten as a result]. You either didn't make sure you understood the basics of using bitcoin, or else you decided not to care.
1432165;1457969201;asciilifeform;nubbins`: we had this thread ?
1432166;1457969213;asciilifeform;the incident hanbot described concerned freshly-moved coinz.
1432167;1457969234;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu was moving coin that was legitly movable, as per the (rotten) protocol, sans fee.
1432168;1457969251;asciilifeform;as far as i can see.
1432169;1457969265;thestringpuller;well should have waited 18 days for confirmation instead of 1 day?
1432170;1457969269;kakobrekla;yes, they were movable and they moved. how do you say - mega unsurprise.
1432171;1457969285;asciilifeform;so this'd be rather like faulting a fella shot as a bystander in a bank robbery, for not wearing a flak jacket that day ?
1432172;1457969303;snorera;flak jacket illegal here
1432173;1457969321;thestringpuller;bystander shouldn't be standing up during a bank robbery!!!1
1432174;1457969340;asciilifeform;snorera: ty for inhabiting the shitland that exists to make usaschwitz look good!
1432175;1457969346;asciilifeform;somebody gotta do it.
1432176;1457969353;snorera;cops might wanna shoot us
1432177;1457969471;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00043554 = 13.2404 BTC [-]
1432178;1457969579;asciilifeform;!up snorera
1432179;1457969665;snorera;;seen cazalla
1432180;1457969680;snorera;;;seen cazalla
1432181;1457969680;gribble;cazalla was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 10 hours, 37 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <cazalla> (which in a round about way, probably is ha)
1432182;1457969773;snorera;single handedly increasing th popul;ation
1432183;1457969984;snorera;he's got 4 chinese girls in the shed
1432184;1457970107;snorera;thats what 10 bc does
1432185;1457970306;snorera;nah cazallas a good bloke
1432186;1457970325;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125453 @ 0.00043437 = 54.493 BTC [-] {7} 
1432187;1457970569;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70788 @ 0.00043236 = 30.6059 BTC [-]
1432188;1457970633;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431714 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432045 << upon consideration the (absurd! ridiculous! i don't understand how the world works!) schelling point is for kakobrekla and mircea_popescu to split the haul
1432189;1457970633;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 21:22:28; ben_vulpes: ascii_field: game theoretically permawedges obviously.
1432190;1457970633;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 14:35:55; nubbins`: hey, do you guys remember yesterday when MP said he'd steal 750 BTC worth of outstanding bets if he can't find a receiver for bitbet?
1432191;1457970645;snorera;voopzz
1432192;1457970656;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: what haul
1432193;1457970657;ben_vulpes;hey vex back for the drama?
1432194;1457970665;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: looks like !
1432195;1457970672;ben_vulpes;don't be thick, asciilifeform
1432196;1457970680;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: no srsly what haul
1432197;1457970884;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: lemme guess, you expect to see that he will turn down dooglus because he isn't active in modern wot, jurov because he agreed with nubs, you because usaschwitz inmate, and this leaves nobody so the bets get eaten ?
1432198;1457970899;asciilifeform;or that no one even bids ? or what.
1432199;1457970905;ben_vulpes;how could i be so thick and naive! asciilifeform points out that the coffers might not even contain anything.
1432200;1457970917;asciilifeform;what coffers
1432201;1457970940;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes already thinks that mircea_popescu spent the betted coin on drink? or what.
1432202;1457970946;asciilifeform;i expect it is still there.
1432203;1457970948;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432167 <<< protocol says no such thing
1432204;1457970948;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 15:27:14; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu was moving coin that was legitly movable, as per the (rotten) protocol, sans fee.
1432205;1457970961;asciilifeform;davout: correct, the 'promise' says it.
1432206;1457970978;davout;protocol says miners can include it or not, at their own option
1432207;1457970979;asciilifeform;the protocol says pretty much nothing save what constitutes a valid tx and block.
1432208;1457970982;asciilifeform;aha.
1432209;1457970987;asciilifeform;which is why i said 'rot'
1432210;1457970992;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: why would anyone step into receivership. a fee of anything less than the bill is lulzy small and will tar the receiver. doing it for free is chumpishly cleaning up mircea_popescu's mess.
1432211;1457971011;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: presumably receiver gets to operate bbet if he can make it solvent ?
1432212;1457971016;asciilifeform;or do i catastrophically misunderstand.
1432213;1457971020;snorera;likely alf
1432214;1457971026;ben_vulpes;bitbet is dead.
1432215;1457971033;davout;sfyl
1432216;1457971038;asciilifeform;snorera: i'm pretty sure i don't meet at least 4 or 5 of the qualifications.
1432217;1457971058;asciilifeform;snorera: calls, at the very minimum, for an expert sapper, who is not a reich subject
1432218;1457971071;snorera;i meant its likely the reciever woould try to maintain, but i can see yuo as it
1432219;1457971082;asciilifeform;l0l
1432220;1457971088;snorera;i can see me moreso
1432221;1457971094;asciilifeform;aha.
1432222;1457971098;snorera;im quite qualified
1432223;1457971118;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55950 @ 0.00043162 = 24.1491 BTC [-] {4} 
1432224;1457971124;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: why do you say dead ?
1432225;1457971127;davout;s.mpoe taking a serious beating today :/
1432226;1457971141;asciilifeform;folks were bettin' long into the in-my-cuntry-theres-a-problem saga
1432227;1457971143;ben_vulpes;davout: tis the Great Divestment.
1432228;1457971166;davout;;;gettrust snorera
1432229;1457971167;gribble;WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user davout to user snorera: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=davout&dest=snorera | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=snorera | Rated since: never
1432230;1457971173;asciilifeform;davout: vex
1432231;1457971177;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: let's just think about 'mods' for a moment.
1432232;1457971182;snorera;fuck off sassoon
1432233;1457971187;davout;oh lol
1432234;1457971197;davout;asciilifeform: ty
1432235;1457971245;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: waiwut
1432236;1457971245;snorera;i guess you've an interest davout?
1432237;1457971260;snorera;i just voted for alf
1432238;1457971267;asciilifeform;snorera: i dun think there is vote.
1432239;1457971277;davout;i have an interests in more things that can fit in 24 hours
1432240;1457971298;snorera;if there isnt i certauinly dont get one
1432241;1457971315;snorera;i am qualified tho
1432242;1457971367;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it was a mighty fine mazerati, if beaten up, but now wrecked ?
1432243;1457971371;asciilifeform;!up solrodar
1432244;1457971400;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: hand fabricated lakebed racer
1432245;1457971415;ben_vulpes;with a deadman's switch
1432246;1457971420;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, kakobrekla, et al: is bbet for sale for the cost of the shortfall? or do i entirely fail to grasp the algo here
1432247;1457971447;shinohai;!up snorera
1432248;1457971452;ben_vulpes;ofc not for sale, asciilifeform.
1432249;1457971472;ben_vulpes;i will be astonished if bitbet actually goes into receivership.
1432250;1457971502;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: why ?
1432251;1457971529;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you think mircea_popescu was murdered by cia and hitler wants the 750 betted coins to buy a new airfart-one ?
1432252;1457971543;snorera;recive dont mean sale
1432253;1457971560;snorera;est no necessito
1432254;1457971598;phf;ben_vulpes: hehe, the 5 stages of grief :)
1432255;1457971714;snorera;reciever just has to work out whjat the fuck is happening
1432256;1457971737;snorera;alf qualified
1432257;1457971791;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> i will be astonished if bitbet actually goes into receivership. >> and i will be astonished if one day you get off ass, actually do something. but then again, that's our respective problem.
1432258;1457971798;mircea_popescu;and in other news, dear god what log.
1432259;1457971804;solrodar;receiver takes over the business and then either sells it or liquidates it with the intention of maximizing the return to the previous shareholders
1432260;1457971818;solrodar;once receiver is appointed, previous shareholders and management have no say in how the business is run
1432261;1457971833;solrodar;but receiver is obligated to act in shareholders interests
1432262;1457971842;mircea_popescu;solrodar stakeholder's interest.
1432263;1457971845;snorera;feel freee to recieve as you like
1432264;1457971893;snorera;id be reporting to mp and kako
1432265;1457971895;solrodar;mircea_popescu: if you mean creditors, they have to respect their claims but they're ultimately working for the shareholders, right
1432266;1457971929;mircea_popescu;well yeah, creditors generally. it can't just go, "hey, shareholder's interest is they get all moneyz so there. problem solved."
1432267;1457972176;solrodar;snorera: there is no reporting, it's a fiduciary arrangement, they can't actually control what the receiver does
1432268;1457972188;solrodar;that's what would distinguish a receiver from an arbitrator
1432269;1457972229;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432016 << check that out, 3 of us!
1432270;1457972229;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 14:04:26; asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i did also. and we had a sorta diploma work thesis at the school i went to, and mine was re: feasibility of solving go via neural net...
1432271;1457972234;mircea_popescu; mine didn't do anything really.
1432272;1457972242;snorera;i aint no arbitrator
1432273;1457972272;snorera;twat
1432274;1457972290;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432026 << phuctor, sort-of.
1432275;1457972290;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 14:07:07; asciilifeform: it is simply 'throw infinite money at decade-old algos'
1432276;1457972294;snorera;do you have an interet?
1432277;1457972299;snorera;interest
1432278;1457972443;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432065 << if you wish to help the receiver along through donating all/part of the work in a publicly verifiable manner, that is your privilege and i am sure will be appreciated by the beneficiaries who they may be.
1432279;1457972443;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 14:39:06; kakobrekla: it would be trivial for me to generate a list (and for him to confirm its legit) of bettors that need to be refunded, he can then take a haircut for the expenses that brought bb down (nothing i can do bout it) and case closed
1432280;1457972476;mircea_popescu;you don't, however, have a manner to walk out of this WITH bitbet, no matter what discussions may pass. it does not belong to you, irrespective what you may think.
1432281;1457972499;solrodar;snorera: me?
1432282;1457972506;snorera;yeah you
1432283;1457972522;solrodar;I am considering it, but doubt I have the necessary reputation here
1432284;1457972539;mircea_popescu;who are you anyway ? either of you two ?
1432285;1457972569;solrodar;I did the trb call graphing work last year
1432286;1457972582;snorera;im not a wank hole
1432287;1457972623;jurov;!b 2
1432288;1457972623;assbot;Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/13JCPR0.txt )
1432289;1457972645;mircea_popescu;solrodar ah i recall.
1432290;1457972692;solrodar;so I have proven a certain amount of technical skill, but this role would also need proven good judgement
1432291;1457972738;mircea_popescu;and a disinclination to split with a few hundred btc.
1432292;1457972741;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432087 << i lollered.
1432293;1457972741;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 14:51:36; phf: "it is impermissible and foreign to the spirit of marxism-leninism to elevate one person, to transform him into a superman possessing supernatural characteristics akin to those of a god."
1432294;1457972904;mircea_popescu;if you ever throw a party somewhere that isn't in a swamp i wanna come.
1432295;1457973128;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432210 << so basically we have a community full of people who confuse "voice of sanity" and "people on tilt" liberally, and by and large is willing to "discuss" everything from this arm's length position of "whatever, as long as we're spending other people's money here's what we think", but by and large can't do anything AT ALL ?
1432296;1457973128;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 15:56:32; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why would anyone step into receivership. a fee of anything less than the bill is lulzy small and will tar the receiver. doing it for free is chumpishly cleaning up mircea_popescu's mess.
1432297;1457973146;mircea_popescu;and this is mp's fault, because unlike everyone else he at least you know, try to run the daycare for half a decade ?
1432298;1457973164;mircea_popescu;this new learning amuses me, go protect the earth from earthquakes with banana peels or whatever it is you do for great glory.
1432299;1457973206;phf;nubbins`: it's a shame that you chose this approach for your denouncement. some people are here (myself, maybe ascii) not to make money, but to fuck around with novel ways of doing things. it would've been nifty if, as a "lord" if you will, you picked up the game and made your accusations formal, maybe solicited a judge from the wot, made it interesting somehow! you don't have to obviously, but the approach that you chose was basic and
1432300;1457973206;phf;invalidates not just mp, but others who participated in construction of tmsr.
1432301;1457973207;phf;nubbins`: i think it's a pointless to discuss (and takes away from the core of the issue) whether or not miners are conspiring against bitbet. ascii's been known to say that lizard hitler personally disconnected his node, nobody cared to pipe in then, because it's an established local way of talking and thinking (не веришь прими за сказку). miners are a cartel, they can collectively decide what the protocol behavior should be
1432302;1457973208;phf;into a controversial protocol behavior, mp called it "miners are conspiring against bitbet". you can personally call mp stupid for that, but there's no "crime" there.
1432303;1457973210;phf;nubbins`: the core of the issue (the way i understand it) is whether or not mp can use personal funds to pay out bets, and whether he can later ask for those funds back from shareholders. that seems to contradict the contract, so the accusation goes, he's in breach of contract. seems simple enough.
1432304;1457973212;phf;i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision of what has transpired,
1432305;1457973216;phf;rather then ~everybody~ seemingly losing their shit.
1432306;1457973219;phf;
1432307;1457973225;phf;(apologies for wall of text)
1432308;1457973253;snorera;didnt read, no worries
1432309;1457973277;solrodar;lol
1432310;1457973288;mircea_popescu;i was here before you, phf , doing exactly the same thing. so count the whole list thx.
1432311;1457973310;phf;count the whole list?
1432312;1457973322;mircea_popescu;(mp, myself, maybe ascii)
1432313;1457973336;mircea_popescu;definitely mod6
1432314;1457973365;mircea_popescu;there's a bunch of people who, however poor may they be irl, are still not driven by the poverty so to speak.
1432315;1457973443;mircea_popescu;this usually attracts talkers, if they be any good, at least. exactly the same way it worked for satoshi, and exactly the same way it always seems to work out, a little later you look around and there's all this democracy and "consumers have come to expect" and general bullshit imported, which you don't even rightly feel able to explain whence it came.
1432316;1457973469;mircea_popescu;but whatever! no swamp was drained in one day.
1432317;1457973619;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48226 @ 0.00043232 = 20.8491 BTC [+] {2} 
1432318;1457973641;PeterL;mircea_popescu what about the part of the listing that says shares will be paid out a minimum of 0.00001 ? If selling the domain+code does not cover the 17btc shortfall and this minimum, are you and kakobrekla expected to pay this out of pocket?
1432319;1457973650;mircea_popescu;i would think so, yes.
1432320;1457973655;jurov;phf there is no judge mircea_popescu wuld accept such "verdicts" from. remember when rota decided in similar way?
1432321;1457973668;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432304 << yes !
1432322;1457973668;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:32; phf: i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision
1432323;1457973677;PeterL;didn't MP follow decision of Rota?
1432324;1457973693;*;shinohai beware the ides of March
1432325;1457973694;PeterL;before closing down rota?
1432326;1457973702;solrodar;yes, and then declared he would never subject himself to something like that again
1432327;1457973704;mircea_popescu;mp did follow it, but jurov is none to bothered with things like logic, or not outright lying, when there's something the monkey on his back WANTS!!1
1432328;1457973748;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432312 << wai wut, i am by no stretch of the imagination qualified to clear the bbet minefield
1432329;1457973748;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:35:22; mircea_popescu: (mp, myself, maybe ascii)
1432330;1457973780;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it is, like anything else, a voluntary position.
1432331;1457973783;jurov;so am i lying when i say, that you resolved not to subject to any judgement?
1432332;1457973823;mircea_popescu;jurov i said, at the time, that i can't in good conscience allow people to vote largesse out of mpex. plox, read the thing you're talking about.
1432333;1457973832;phf;jurov: and when judge passes a verdict and mp does not comply or whatever the outcome is we can say "tmsr as an instituation has failed and we can walk away" i mean, what's the problem there?
1432334;1457973836;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i mean, from purely technical point of view, i think i have sufficient brain, but if it became known that i have the ignition keys to xxx btc in my house, i will last maybe a day before gestapo.
1432335;1457973857;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i do not think you have sufficient brain. business is business, there's nothing "technical point of view" about it.
1432336;1457973864;asciilifeform;fair.
1432337;1457973877;asciilifeform;let the pro sappers do it.
1432338;1457973883;mircea_popescu;yes, in a different life had you grown to be a jew and went into commercial law rather than kaballah, you would have done fine.
1432339;1457973888;mircea_popescu;in this life tho, you went another way.
1432340;1457973911;asciilifeform;i don't know which direction detonator in claymore unscrews, either.
1432341;1457973912;mircea_popescu;phf exactly how is this "not comply" going to work ? cuz i dun follow really.
1432342;1457973923;asciilifeform;or how to remove antitamper on a 'butterfly'
1432343;1457973924;asciilifeform;etc.
1432344;1457973945;mircea_popescu;judge is going to rule "hey, mp must continue to spend liberally to try and build a thing out of nothing - BUT THIS TIME WE DECIDE HOW MUCH AND ON WHAT!!1" thus turning tmsr into the 51 state ?
1432345;1457973951;mircea_popescu;i'll piss on his grave, judge or no judge.
1432346;1457973955;*;asciilifeform is actually happy that he isn't being conscripted for this particular chore
1432347;1457973961;solrodar;I think the real problem here is not the solvency or otherwise of bitbet, but the fact that mircea_popescu and kakobrekla have had a breakdown in trust and no longer want to work with each other
1432348;1457973976;solrodar;that could be resolved by other means than liquidation
1432349;1457973987;solrodar;such as by one or both of them selling their controlling interest
1432350;1457973992;PeterL;has anybody expressed interest in buying bitbet yet?
1432351;1457974003;mircea_popescu;PeterL seems that time came and went.
1432352;1457974028;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1424845
1432353;1457974028;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 16:13:22; mircea_popescu: by all means. hence, " and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it."
1432354;1457974045;asciilifeform;PeterL: it'd have to be sold to someone who can be relied on not to run off with the contents ?
1432355;1457974046;mircea_popescu;hey check it out, nobody spells icahn's name right.
1432356;1457974110;mircea_popescu;there's two peter lamberts ?!
1432357;1457974120;phf;mircea_popescu: hey some people clearly want to see blood. i think judgement should exclusively affect only people's wot ratings and is necessary for when the issue is complicated and needs an investigation. sort of like a write up that supreme court judges do. nobody even needs to agree with it
1432358;1457974144;solrodar;mircea_popescu: as I understand the listing agreement, both you and kakobrekla need to agree before either of you can sell your joint 50%
1432359;1457974147;solrodar;how can it be hostile?
1432360;1457974164;mircea_popescu;in that it outsts some/all management.
1432361;1457974174;solrodar;with their consent
1432362;1457974179;mircea_popescu;that's the usual sense of hostile in that context.
1432363;1457974189;mircea_popescu;well yes with their consent, it's not rapine.
1432364;1457974196;mircea_popescu;!up peter_lambert
1432365;1457974210;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432314 << what does it mean in this context, to be 'driven by poverty' ?
1432366;1457974210;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:36:05; mircea_popescu: there's a bunch of people who, however poor may they be irl, are still not driven by the poverty so to speak.
1432367;1457974238;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you familiar with the saying "can take girl out of the trailer park, but not the trailer park out of the girl" ? that, except for boys.
1432368;1457974294;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i must confess, i was never on tardtalk, etc. and have very limited experience with this item. but i think i know what it is, from logz
1432369;1457974322;mircea_popescu;it's the historical and to my eyes first sense of mean / meanness.
1432370;1457974343;asciilifeform;it is the pestilence that drove my deep disinterest in bitcoin ~users~ 2009-2012.
1432371;1457974418;asciilifeform;illiterate peasants hitting one another with broken-down spades over a stolen fuck-goat
1432372;1457974482;PeterL;asciilifeform the receivership of bitbet could include refunding all bet deposits, then the site could be sold without transfering the bet funds, let them restart from scratch?
1432373;1457974509;asciilifeform;PeterL: but receiver would have to actually hold the keys, however briefly
1432374;1457974513;asciilifeform;as i understand
1432375;1457974531;PeterL;yes, but receiver and buyer would not have to be the same person
1432376;1457974549;PeterL;so these are separate issues
1432377;1457974564;asciilifeform;anyway, i am not involved with any of this, and for very good reasons (see mircea_popescu's explanation.)
1432378;1457974610;asciilifeform;as far as i can see, the only chance of it resolving cleanly involves mircea_popescu doing a multitude of 'things for phree' which is one of the reasons he is in none too happy a mood.
1432379;1457974655;asciilifeform;but holding a gigantic bag of other folks' coin is not really an outsourceable job.
1432380;1457974701;mircea_popescu;well, we're many layers above that, however. in this rarefied atmosphere which, however frustrating, is still many miles above the peasants with their fuckgoat, we meet the twin dragon of, on one hand,
1432381;1457974702;mircea_popescu;"They consider themselves leaderless.  They can have representatives, they can have "evangelists" but they have to believe that their conclusions are all their own, through individual reflection and objective consideration.  Interestingly, and on purpose, they believe their brains can handle such an analysis, any analysis. This isn't arrogance.  They are told, by universities and the media, that their mind is prepared
1432382;1457974702;mircea_popescu;to do this heavy lifting as long as they are given just the right facts, filtered from the noise."
1432383;1457974702;mircea_popescu;and on the other hand, the lulzy "a man that doesn't believe in allah can't possibly not go on a murdering rampage" deeply held if ridiculous, and certainly unexamined belief of egyptian peasants, except translated in time and space to you know, "one in a position of authority is necessarily both bad and responsible!"
1432384;1457974718;mircea_popescu;these are deeper issues that what can be addressed in plain conversation, i'm sure.
1432385;1457974775;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm not doing more shit for free in this context ; not only because it is outrageous for the recipients of charity to direct the disbursement of charity, but most of all because the end result of a world kept clean, warm and humming along on charity is a disproportionate feeling of power in the idle denizens, who then end up running into "steel walls".
1432386;1457974782;mircea_popescu;not terribly fair to raise the children thus.
1432387;1457974810;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this was an observation, rather than prescription, i am noting that you are doing a megatonne of unplesant wurk for phree.
1432388;1457974821;mircea_popescu;point.
1432389;1457974880;asciilifeform;sorta like stalin did.
1432390;1457974912;asciilifeform;what was his reward for leading the 'blind kittens' ?
1432391;1457974925;mircea_popescu;and to disabuse THAT notion, i don't personally think stalin was either very apt, very smart, or any sort of example to be followed. is, indeed, a notable example for all sorts of things,
1432392;1457974936;mircea_popescu;but most to do with how idiotic everyone else was, not not even measure up to the georgian.
1432393;1457974940;asciilifeform;but this is not why he was working for free.
1432394;1457974952;asciilifeform;he, afaik, simply did not have the tastes with which he could enjoy a reward for his work.
1432395;1457974965;asciilifeform;his aptness - or ineptness - are not the moving part here
1432396;1457975020;mircea_popescu;true, on both ends.
1432397;1457975066;asciilifeform;possibly it was his only strength...
1432398;1457975087;asciilifeform;he was not, in the sense discussed earlier, 'moved by poverty'
1432399;1457975122;asciilifeform;left behind no swiss accounts.
1432400;1457975155;mircea_popescu;a strength both understood and tried to be replicated by a bunchy of lesser copies throughout the "unalligned" movement and well beyond.
1432401;1457975177;asciilifeform;(notably, refused, for his entire reign, to sell mineral resources from his country to foreign devils. successors IMMEDIATELY began this burning of furniture, culminating in modern ru 'pipe economy.')
1432402;1457975217;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, it was, in the copies, a mega-l0l quite comparable to the false asceticism of medieval monks
1432403;1457975246;asciilifeform;'vow of poverty' surrounded by gold and jewels, 'chastity' with cocksuckers in every corner, etc.
1432404;1457975388;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36300 @ 0.00043232 = 15.6932 BTC [+]
1432405;1457975484;jurov;stalin surely too tought "bah stupid poor tarstalk redditors!" when someone was criticizing his zerofee experiments with hitler
1432406;1457975517;mircea_popescu;afaik this is on the record, even.
1432407;1457975556;asciilifeform;very much
1432408;1457975564;shinohai;by the pool >>> https://i.imgur.com/JVEw9uS.jpg
1432409;1457975565;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/250h2iU )
1432410;1457975615;asciilifeform;i recently finished an interesting history, 'Расстрелянные герои Советского Союза' (Heroes of SU who were condemned to the firing squad)
1432411;1457975619;asciilifeform;it was largely about this
1432412;1457975668;asciilifeform;(distinguished su military men, who were executed for failure to mop up stalin's mistake)
1432413;1457975716;asciilifeform;though it was never clear to me that the delay-game played with germany was a mistake.
1432414;1457975786;mircea_popescu;much as in the case of a recent game of go - what exactly would it being clear or unclear to you do ?
1432415;1457975828;mircea_popescu;ow fuck, that's ANOTHER thing i won't have to do, resolve that god damned bet, huh.
1432416;1457975832;mircea_popescu;hallelujah.
1432417;1457975923;thestringpuller;;;isup qntra.net
1432418;1457975925;gribble;qntra.net is up
1432419;1457975932;thestringpuller;huh...
1432420;1457975996;mircea_popescu;i even promise to not pelt with invective the poor receiver whichever way he chooses to go.
1432421;1457976000;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432414 << what does study of history 'do' ?
1432422;1457976000;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 17:16:26; mircea_popescu: much as in the case of a recent game of go - what exactly would it being clear or unclear to you do ?
1432423;1457976005;mircea_popescu;he'll get enough from "the community", i'm sure.
1432424;1457976029;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform very different concerns here ; history may be informative but it's never dispositive.
1432425;1457976051;mircea_popescu;not in a manner "technical knowledge" or say a blueprint is.
1432426;1457976078;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: did you read the 4th game ?
1432427;1457976110;mircea_popescu;nah i looked (briefly) through the first three
1432428;1457976116;mircea_popescu;about all i had time/patience for.
1432429;1457976121;asciilifeform;the 4th is the interesting one.
1432430;1457976127;mircea_popescu;maybe one day.
1432431;1457976164;mircea_popescu;going through a game of go is rare among endeavours in that i can't be doing other things.
1432432;1457976171;asciilifeform;yeah.
1432433;1457976212;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller i see it.
1432434;1457976240;asciilifeform;loads ok here
1432435;1457976240;thestringpuller;"The server at qntra.net can't be found, because the DNS lookup failed."
1432436;1457976253;thestringpuller;I'll try it from another location later. Guess no qntra at work.
1432437;1457976326;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: but thus far i don't see how the bet is difficult to resolve. the presumption is that the game was legit, no? barring actual proof of shenanigans ?
1432438;1457976350;asciilifeform;is this not how sport bet generally works ? BingoBoingo ?
1432439;1457976369;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1432440;1457976400;mircea_popescu;it's just this unpleasant "bitbet bets once resolve enact history". i dislike the notion of cementing google's transpared ploy into my blockchain. i'm sure it's all me.
1432441;1457976407;mircea_popescu;and in other fema camp news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1cg3b5ECz1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
1432442;1457976409;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/250iwd0 )
1432443;1457976417;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not only you.
1432444;1457976433;asciilifeform;but mircea_popescu is the one stuck driving the grim bulldozer.
1432445;1457976440;mircea_popescu;*resolved / transparent etc.
1432446;1457976480;nubbins`;<+phf>nubbins`: it's a shame that you chose this approach for your denouncement. some people are here (myself, maybe ascii) not to make money, but to fuck around with novel ways of doing things <<< nothing about what i did prevents this from continuing.
1432447;1457976547;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43139 @ 0.00043182 = 18.6283 BTC [-] {2} 
1432448;1457976715;nubbins`;what, you can't fuck around with novel ways of doing things because s.bbet imploded?
1432449;1457976974;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99250 @ 0.00043155 = 42.8313 BTC [-] {4} 
1432450;1457977060;asciilifeform;nubbins`: the one mega-mystery in my mind is still the 0asset thing.
1432451;1457977080;asciilifeform;nubbins`: was it really meant to live only until the first disaster, however small? e.g., stolen server ?
1432452;1457977105;asciilifeform;nubbins`: or was the idea that it ~ought to be~ successful enough to be able to cover any loss with simply the profit from any particular month ?
1432453;1457977117;phf;nubbins`: that's not the meaning of the paragraph. not "what" you did, but "how" is the focus., and the sentence you're pointing at is an exposition that frames my perspective, in a form similar to "some of us here are shoemakers and we blah blah blah". whatever blah blah blah is, it's not usually about how shoemakers can not shoemake anymore, but is more like "i speak for shoemakers"
1432454;1457977131;asciilifeform;^
1432455;1457977166;asciilifeform;i must agree with phf. and i think this is how nubbins` ended up killfiled by mircea_popescu, for the 'i speak for trees, for the trees have no tongues' thing.
1432456;1457977180;asciilifeform;the 'trees' very much DO have motherfuckingt tongues here.
1432457;1457977186;asciilifeform;and don't need a 'speaker for.'
1432458;1457977584;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49637 @ 0.00043172 = 21.4293 BTC [+] {3} 
1432459;1457977767;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57200 @ 0.00043122 = 24.6658 BTC [-] {2} 
1432460;1457978057;shinohai;http://archive.is/Dl6ob   <<< look at what the vc capital buys, fake nodez!
1432461;1457978062;assbot;Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/250lbmW )
1432462;1457978134;mats;hello lords and peers
1432463;1457978140;asciilifeform;/Classic:0.12.0/2310 (29.15%)
1432464;1457978142;asciilifeform;l0l!
1432465;1457978150;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu wondered where the sybils.
1432466;1457978155;asciilifeform;turns out, right there.
1432467;1457978159;shinohai;keklicious
1432468;1457978243;asciilifeform;shinohai: betcha there's a botnet install in there.
1432469;1457978378;asciilifeform;there were thousands of sybils, note, for quite some time.
1432470;1457978396;asciilifeform;but what there also was, was mircea_popescu having a notion that he knows how to avoid connecting through them to the minerz
1432471;1457978401;asciilifeform;and possibly he is now cured of it.
1432472;1457978457;asciilifeform;sybil attacks work not because there are many sybils, but because they ~act in concert~
1432473;1457978500;asciilifeform;the number is simply to ensure that folks connecting at random, in public toilets, end up with a thick layer of sybil between them and the statistically probable genuine non-gangrenous flesh somewhere far away.
1432474;1457978568;shinohai;xD
1432475;1457978851;solrodar;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432450 << what happened to the "reserve" of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-04-2014#608433 ?
1432476;1457978851;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 17:37:40; asciilifeform: nubbins`: the one mega-mystery in my mind is still the 0asset thing.
1432477;1457978851;assbot;Logged on 07-04-2014 19:36:22; kakobrekla: cool, so its a double reverse fractional reserve
1432478;1457979121;phf;solrodar: nothing need have happened to warrant that question. reserve is there to pay out what was payed in. can't pay for server from reserve. ascii's question is not pointed, he's never seen bitbet's paperwork and is surprised that a business can run without own assets.
1432479;1457979170;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93550 @ 0.00043262 = 40.4716 BTC [+] {2} 
1432480;1457979458;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> nubbins`: or was the idea << or possibly the system that worked well for s.dice was simply carried forward, with not enough thought given to the matter. "hey, it's also gambling".
1432481;1457979464;solrodar;well obviously the whole 0-asset thing was always an accounting fiction
1432482;1457979479;mircea_popescu;dunno, and the people involved had not the foresight to leave us detailed records of how that logic went.
1432483;1457979492;solrodar;it's very easy to enumerate bitbet's assets and liabilities, as mp has done
1432484;1457979532;solrodar;but were there ever any reserves, or was that audit a misunderstanding?
1432485;1457979607;phf;seems to be that most? every? aspect of bitbet operation was funded out of mp's pocket, so it's zero asset because it literally doesn't own any of the parts required for its operation. bitbet as an entity existed purely as a "bets come in, house takes percentage, payments come out" operation.
1432486;1457979610;mircea_popescu;the "reserves" thing was mostly a joke. at the time it so happened as part of the mysterious functioning of the mp payment network that inputs originally sent to bitbet were not spent.
1432487;1457979635;solrodar;makes sense
1432488;1457979652;mircea_popescu;phf well no, kakobrekla wrote and maintained the code and for a while covered the server costs. the former part is no trivial matter, i will point out.
1432489;1457979702;mircea_popescu;the latter part come at an end at some point last year, when he asked to have it included in the cost structure. i pointed out to him then that if i correspondingly add my expenses in, we might as well close it.
1432490;1457979716;mircea_popescu;so he rather cavallierly offered to continue eating the server while i continue eating the admin.
1432491;1457979718;phf;ah, i see
1432492;1457979740;mircea_popescu;but upon consideration, i did put the amt for the server into the costs, it really being a pittance
1432493;1457979746;solrodar;your expenses meaning your time?
1432494;1457979746;mircea_popescu;50 bux or something, i don't recall exactly.
1432495;1457979783;mircea_popescu;solrodar mno. you may not realise this, but bitbet has to date clocked close to 2k hours of admin time. and this is pointedly not minimum wage sort of work.
1432496;1457979800;phf;so a clarification to what i said above, it's kakobrekla and mircea_popescu together paying for all aspects of bitbet operation out of pocket
1432497;1457979807;mircea_popescu;there's of course also the cost of handling bitcoin payments, which is very VERY far from "free", irrespective what the "big blocks" derps think.
1432498;1457979825;mircea_popescu;but currently, the actual bitcoin network fee doesn't even ammount to 1% of the actual cost of interacting with this sprawling pile of shit.
1432499;1457979896;mircea_popescu;now, one could say "the same is true of fiat banking", and BY AND LARGE THEY WOULD BE RIGHT. see for instance
1432500;1457979919;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2013/time-for-europe-to-repeal-the-us-backed-aml-crap/
1432501;1457979920;assbot;Time for Europe to repeal the US-backed AML crap. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3esew )
1432502;1457979932;mircea_popescu;that unnamed business, for instance, sustained a 600k euro cost of doing business with fiat banking.
1432503;1457979958;mircea_popescu;that was also unpredictable bla bla. and i'm sure the shareholders would very much like management to insulate them from it. if only.
1432504;1457979968;solrodar;so you're saying that bitbet hasn't really been profitable in a long time, but you kept it running for entertainment value?
1432505;1457979984;phf;solrodar: and to finish the thought, you "want" audit to ensure that bitbet holds all the bitcoin for open debts, rather then, say, having it all transfered into kako's or mp's coffers. that's the "reserve" although of course a joking misnomer.
1432506;1457980020;mircea_popescu;phf there's no guarantee offered or even contemplated that bitcoin is not fungible.
1432507;1457980033;mircea_popescu;so in this sense, bitbet's coffers ARE mp's coffers, and no separation is to be had.
1432508;1457980146;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26302 @ 0.0004313 = 11.3441 BTC [-] {2} 
1432509;1457980179;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> and don't need a 'speaker for.' <<< the problem with the democrat's mind is that he's been ruined by low effort "success" and so will forever be seeking this fantasy of a "silent electorate" to propel him through a life without labour.
1432510;1457980201;mircea_popescu;it's a disease of the mind that i don't really think can be cured, just quarantined.
1432511;1457980242;phf;i'm trying to compartmentalize where there's none, ultimately the whole thing is a counterparty problem, and only recourse is loss&negrate
1432512;1457980255;mircea_popescu;hola mats
1432513;1457980268;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44950 @ 0.00043125 = 19.3847 BTC [-] {2} 
1432514;1457980306;mircea_popescu;phf in general it'd be helpful if other avenues were found from this sort of situation. in any case it'd be good for bitcoin.
1432515;1457980336;mircea_popescu;but hey, if that's above what can be had, whatever, i'll build a shrine to allah / brothel / whatever out of the proceeds and that's that.
1432516;1457980444;solrodar;speaking of proceeds, how much of the bitbet IPO was ever completed?
1432517;1457980572;mircea_popescu;iirc originally a chunk was sold, then sometime early last year or perhaps late 2014 the remainder of the shares were distributed to the principals. iirc i didn't sell much, mostly now and again to try and temper overexcited price action. should be something like .5 to maybe 3mn shares outstanding depending how much kako himself sold.
1432518;1457980577;mats;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431729 << sure.
1432519;1457980577;assbot;Logged on 13-03-2016 21:30:36; pete_dushenski: last one was nigh on two years ago now : http://www.contravex.com/2014/04/07/results-of-first-bitbet-audit-april-7-2014/
1432520;1457980695;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00042716 = 5.1259 BTC [-] {2} 
1432521;1457980714;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1431962 << ty
1432522;1457980714;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 12:19:57; mircea_popescu: ahaha ok pretty good.
1432523;1457980752;jurov;mats: "sure" means you apply?
1432524;1457980764;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> and possibly he is now cured of it. <<< amusingly - quite on the contrary! ~you~ had that notion, and appeared to stick to it even in the face of my pointing out that this arrangement is not stable, and only the miners could possibily be running the show.
1432525;1457980768;mircea_popescu;so i guess... you are now cured of it ?
1432526;1457980814;mats;jurov, i'm happy to do the audit but not act as receiver
1432527;1457980842;mircea_popescu;why is that, if the question's not too presumptuous ?
1432528;1457981162;phf;so bitbet has 750.4 in open bets, 742.9 to pay out, 7.5 goes to shareholders/mp?
1432529;1457981184;mircea_popescu;well, i'm not entirely sure it can charge 1% if it doesn't resolve the bets.
1432530;1457981194;mircea_popescu;but roughly speaking sounds about right.
1432531;1457981336;mircea_popescu;if more people had at any point throughout the intervening tax seasons stopped and thought "hey, i made whatever, 100k dollars this year, of which i'm signing off 60k to usg - might as well send tmsr the 0.1% it charges in tax!" then perhaps the foundation would have enough money and i could just donate it there as an endpoint.
1432532;1457981343;mircea_popescu;but as it is, doesn't seem a workable plan.
1432533;1457981349;mircea_popescu;who knows, maybe in some years or whatever.
1432534;1457981354;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432524 << i STILL do not see the miners thing as a necessary hypothesis.
1432535;1457981354;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 18:39:24; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> and possibly he is now cured of it. <<< amusingly - quite on the contrary! ~you~ had that notion, and appeared to stick to it even in the face of my pointing out that this arrangement is not stable, and only the miners could possibily be running the show.
1432536;1457981363;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform funny how this goes.
1432537;1457981370;mircea_popescu;it just happens to be exactly what you said.
1432538;1457981397;phf;so whatever %1's been collected so far is divided between mp,kako,shareholders with receiver making a call there, pay outs go to original addresses, assets are auctioned and the auction proceeds are split between mp,kako with receiver making call there
1432539;1457981411;asciilifeform;well if mircea_popescu demonstrated the logic whereby miner collusion is a necessary hypothesis, vs sybils alone, i must have slept through it ?
1432540;1457981420;asciilifeform;the 'is not stable' thing is pure handwaving.
1432541;1457981451;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform did you not say the words "mircea_popescu having a notion that he knows how to avoid connecting through them to the minerz" ?
1432542;1457981503;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is synthesis from earlier threads where you stated that yes, there are sybils, but your octopus of mpb connecting to various trusted folks, incl. over crypted links, is not sybilable
1432543;1457981516;mircea_popescu;do they not exactly read "i, asciilifeform, hereby do declare there's no relay network other than the miner's own" ?
1432544;1457981522;mircea_popescu;if not, then in what way ?
1432545;1457981532;PeterL;phf proceeds from assets should be split between shareholders, mp, kako
1432546;1457981546;phf;PeterL: that is what i said
1432547;1457981554;mircea_popescu;stat rosa pristina, my dear alf.
1432548;1457981557;asciilifeform;there is a network, consisting, apparently, mostly of sybil.
1432549;1457981563;PeterL;oh, looked like you left out shareholders on that part
1432550;1457981572;asciilifeform;to which the miners connect. and likewise everyone else.
1432551;1457981580;mircea_popescu;this model of (perceptible relay) + (imperceptible miners) is nonsense of the ilk of meta-nsa-in-the-sky.
1432552;1457981586;thestringpuller;interesting how much chaos relay policies cause, whereas some want to completely change consensus rules
1432553;1457981635;asciilifeform;at no point did i state a belief in 'imperceptible miners', just observing that the miner collusion is not a necessary hypothesis re the bbet event.
1432554;1457981650;mircea_popescu;well so which is it.
1432555;1457981654;asciilifeform;sybils putting transactions in their pocket and lying about the contents of their mempool, works.
1432556;1457981660;mircea_popescu;can i (one) or can't i (one) ?
1432557;1457981670;asciilifeform;waiwut
1432558;1457981671;asciilifeform;can what?
1432559;1457981686;phf;PeterL: oh from ~sale~ you mean. i don't think that shareholders have any claim to sale. since it's a zero asset corporation, the only movable part is "bets come in, percentage collected, payment sent out". "assets" is the percentage that's collected at the end of month, and immediately distributed to shareholders. what is being sold is domain/codebase and a negotiation rights with mp for hosting. that was never funded by shareholders
1432560;1457981701;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform can i relay directly to miners, or can't i ?
1432561;1457981717;mircea_popescu;phf it wasn't ?!
1432562;1457981728;PeterL;phf, to me the listing seems to say during liquidation shareholders get an even share?
1432563;1457981731;solrodar;you just said so yourself
1432564;1457981746;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the bbet event suggested that there was at least one layer of prb between mircea_popescu and the miners.
1432565;1457981757;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform as a possible explanation.
1432566;1457981761;phf;mircea_popescu: not from what you just said about you and kako paying out of the pocket
1432567;1457981785;mircea_popescu;phf whatever people do with their private funds is their problem, the contract still says the shareholders get it.
1432568;1457981797;asciilifeform;but if mircea_popescu signed a statement that he transmits directly to the miners, and has no doubt that this is so, because he ran the cable himself, i will believe...
1432569;1457981799;phf;well then
1432570;1457981809;phf;PeterL: you're correct
1432571;1457981841;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if i didn't think so, the qntra piece would have read "fuck vc sybils already".
1432572;1457981842;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432438 << Generally how the bet goes. blood taken over contest being a farce generally doesn't make it to bettors.
1432573;1457981842;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 17:25:50; asciilifeform: is this not how sport bet generally works ? BingoBoingo ?
1432574;1457981843;mats;http://log.b-a.link/?date=14-03-2016#1432527 << as i've been reading it, the 17btc is still in dispute? i don't want to be in the position of resolving this, but i'd be happy to audit whatever coins still reside in s.bbet public (or not) addresses and publish results
1432575;1457981843;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 18:40:42; mircea_popescu: why is that, if the question's not too presumptuous ?
1432576;1457981890;mircea_popescu;mats the question under audit's not that ; not that it would prevent you from doing whatever.
1432577;1457981899;mats;also not a big fan of handling other people's money
1432578;1457981936;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is not actually my business how mircea_popescu transmits his tx, but since he chose to present the bbet matter in the tmsr public forum, rather than limiting it to folks 'whose business it is', i will say, that the mpb (client and network both) is a serious ?????? in the story. i have nfi how it works, and imho it actually matters for making sense of the observations.
1432579;1457982095;asciilifeform;the 'lighter weight', parsimonious hypothesis is that mpb-net was bamboozled by sybils. rather than miners.
1432580;1457982126;asciilifeform;and that whichever meatspace folk with whom he had peering arrangements, a) bamboozled him and/or b) were in turn bamboozled by their peers.
1432581;1457982207;asciilifeform;i, for instance, will not deal with han chinese unless the deal is strictly cash&carry basis and involves no ongoing trust arrangement.
1432582;1457982218;asciilifeform;learned this from al schwartz, and eminently confirmed in years since.
1432583;1457982394;asciilifeform;perhaps this is a failure of my puny brain, but i am at a loss as to what assurance mircea_popescu could possibly have had, and from whom, that there is not a prb vermin between mpb-net and the miner.
1432584;1457982486;PeterL;I guess he could specifically design a transaction which is not passed by prb, and see if it gets into blocks, which I think the high-S thing was an example?
1432585;1457982515;asciilifeform;PeterL: poor example, the extant miners somehow agreed not to mine high-S
1432586;1457982533;asciilifeform;(note, the protocol PERMITS a block with high-S tx. hence my suggestion to build a high-S-only pool.)
1432587;1457982560;asciilifeform;the high-S thing was the most serious, imho, warning bell that there ~is~ such a thing as miner collusion
1432588;1457982568;asciilifeform;it ought not to have been possible for the miners to agree on this.
1432589;1457982570;PeterL;aha, so the high-S thing only proves the miners don't like it, you would need to find something the miners allow but prb does not
1432590;1457982570;asciilifeform;game-theoretically.
1432591;1457982579;asciilifeform;PeterL: correct.
1432592;1457982598;asciilifeform;there is not, reliably, such a thing.
1432593;1457982607;asciilifeform;no-fee tx is only ~approximately~ this.
1432594;1457982609;PeterL;any miner who wants some extra fee-fees just has to sweep up all high-S txn?
1432595;1457982621;asciilifeform;PeterL: aha.
1432596;1457982637;asciilifeform;the failure of such a miner to exist is a game-theoretical smoking gun.
1432597;1457982645;asciilifeform;as i understand it.
1432598;1457982671;PeterL;the fact that 0-fee txn eventually got mined shows that mp is not completely isolated from miners by prb?
1432599;1457982698;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu described the high-S thing as noncontroversial, but for some reason it did not alarm him that miners could agree on something which theoretically leads to dropping PERFECTLY VALID TX on the floor ?!
1432600;1457982720;asciilifeform;PeterL: well the contention is that it was fired maliciously
1432601;1457982759;asciilifeform;i.e. that someone chose to make a particular exception from ordinary prb rules in order to ding bbet.
1432602;1457982770;asciilifeform;as i understand it.
1432603;1457982779;PeterL;I still don't see the need for any malisciousness, just somebody holding it in some sort of "side mempool"
1432604;1457982810;PeterL;as was described previously
1432605;1457982819;asciilifeform;fwiw, i actually thought that mircea_popescu & kakobrekla's original proposed solution was spiffy
1432606;1457982832;PeterL;which solution?
1432607;1457982833;asciilifeform;which is, to define 'being paid in btc' as 'be shown a valid tx that pays you'
1432608;1457982839;asciilifeform;rather than 'wait for the miners'
1432609;1457982857;PeterL;but that does not stop doublespends?
1432610;1457982864;asciilifeform;it is the job of the payer to sign a valid tx, from valid inputs.
1432611;1457982869;asciilifeform;if he doublespends, you negrate him and move on.
1432612;1457982882;asciilifeform;a la how we deal with folks who kite cheques.
1432613;1457982893;asciilifeform;this is the historic norm, when there was no blockchain, only stone knives and bearskins.
1432614;1457982904;asciilifeform;blockchain is ~nice~ but its correct operation is not guaranteed.
1432615;1457982910;PeterL;although, I gues accounting-wise you could say you were paid the day the transaction was created, rather than the day it goes into block
1432616;1457982932;PeterL;and then payment was not late just because it was a long time getting into block
1432617;1457982984;PeterL;but would bitbet also extend such to their customers? they seem to be pretty firm about if it is not in the block before bet resolves it becomes a donation to shareholders
1432618;1457983017;asciilifeform;PeterL: this must be so because if this were not so, we have buluceala.
1432619;1457983020;asciilifeform;ergo it must be so.
1432620;1457983023;asciilifeform;!s buluceala
1432621;1457983023;assbot;8 results for 'buluceala' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buluceala
1432622;1457983128;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432495 << just how deeply in the red ~was~ bbet, if we consider this ..?
1432623;1457983128;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 18:23:03; mircea_popescu: solrodar mno. you may not realise this, but bitbet has to date clocked close to 2k hours of admin time. and this is pointedly not minimum wage sort of work.
1432624;1457983162;solrodar;they chose not to charge it to the company, therefore it didn't count
1432625;1457983166;asciilifeform;!s from:mircea_popescu tmsr deficit
1432626;1457983167;assbot;1 results for 'from:mircea_popescu tmsr deficit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+tmsr+deficit
1432627;1457983190;asciilifeform;!s from:mircea_popescu deficit
1432628;1457983191;assbot;12 results for 'from:mircea_popescu deficit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+deficit
1432629;1457983194;phf;PeterL: i think counterparty problem is asymmetrical. that's your collateral is higher then BoA's collateral when you establish partnership
1432630;1457983199;phf;*that's why
1432631;1457983254;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432588 -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-07-2015#1185942 and further: core devs made the change in 'prb', miners ate it without thinking twice for the benefits visible on the surface. secondly, block reward is too high for / tx fees too low to expect any heavy optimizations for maximizing fees beyond most simplistic or default
1432632;1457983254;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 19:09:28; asciilifeform: it ought not to have been possible for the miners to agree on this.
1432633;1457983254;assbot;Logged on 03-07-2015 21:25:49; kakobrekla: but 'miners' are zombies, will eat whatever comes their way and cant count on them thinking about anything
1432634;1457983351;kakobrekla;even further, when chinese miners were asked about blocksize it was "we dunno, it should be up to core devs, they know what is best"
1432635;1457983365;PeterL;Or it can be viewed in terms of WoT, random guy off the street has no trust from bitbet that he won't doublespend, bitbet has been holding the coins and thus has implicit trust from guy that he will get paid eventually
1432636;1457983389;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: iirc it is specifically mircea_popescu's position that not-this.
1432637;1457983398;asciilifeform;that is, that miners do not prb and are not affected by prbism.
1432638;1457983418;asciilifeform;he can correct me if this is not a valid summary, when he wakes up.
1432639;1457983423;kakobrekla;how do we say, "not enough lsd" is it ?
1432640;1457983454;asciilifeform;certainly i lack the lsd to process the sheer number of my-intel-told-me-so-and-you-will-take-it-on-faith-because-dirigible-and-fuckyou
1432641;1457983466;kakobrekla;aha.
1432642;1457983496;phf;PeterL: right, banks have a kind of wot when they deal with each other, quantified as collateral against credit exposure
1432643;1457983622;kakobrekla;PeterL re the solution i proposed shortly after the disaster, see footnote for explanation http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#footnote_3_65290
1432644;1457983624;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MiRvWO )
1432645;1457983698;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: my current understanding, based not only on this incident but others, is that he has pretty good (world class?) humint, but atrocious sigint
1432646;1457983731;asciilifeform;and, like most folks direly missing a tool, come to believe that 'i don't need screwdriver, hammer's claw in expert hands is always just as good or better'
1432647;1457983747;asciilifeform;and yes, i fully grasp why he loathes to deal with the sort of folks who do sigint.
1432648;1457983766;mircea_popescu; i have nfi how it works, and imho it actually matters for making sense of the observations. << the problem here is that complete transparency can not be achieved for practical reasons. if it could have been, have no doubt i would have preferred to this "under my seal" report avenue.
1432649;1457983784;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i believe it.
1432650;1457983830;asciilifeform;but i will note that the story ends up having some of the unpleasant flavour of the usg secret court trials with secret evidence, resultingly.
1432651;1457983837;asciilifeform;perhaps unavoidably. but it does.
1432652;1457983880;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> mircea_popescu described the high-S thing as noncontroversial << wasn't that the other one ?
1432653;1457983893;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it melded into one in your head with the DER encoding thing.
1432654;1457983902;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> which is, to define 'being paid in btc' as 'be shown a valid tx that pays you' << o no fucking way jesus christ.
1432655;1457983904;mircea_popescu;this is horrible.
1432656;1457983905;asciilifeform;(and not only mircea_popescu , but i think many folks swallowed them in one pill)
1432657;1457983924;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is horrible ! but was the pill suggested in the trilema bbet article.
1432658;1457983924;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> this is the historic norm, when there was no blockchain, only stone knives and bearskins. << yeah, and guess why.
1432659;1457983954;asciilifeform;it is not a replacement for working bitcoin. but a pill to wake folks up to the fact of the broken one.
1432660;1457983986;asciilifeform;so that wrath can fall on the correct heads.
1432661;1457984017;kakobrekla;aha
1432662;1457984042;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> << just how deeply in the red ~was~ bbet, if we consider this ..? << i dunno man, how much for a night with my slave of your choice ? for me she'll do it for free, you she will not even consider. and this speaks to phf's and other's q as to why assets weren't on the books since they can be trivially enumerated : yes they can be ; but they can't be VALUED. what's the accounting value of bitbet codebase ?
1432663;1457984042;mircea_popescu;or in more at-home terms, what exactly am i going to put phuctor into the s.nsa books as ?
1432664;1457984044;kakobrekla;anyway, you cant really make the horse drink water
1432665;1457984061;mircea_popescu;obviously enumerable, impossible to evaluate. and incidentally - how many fucking weekedns omfg!
1432666;1457984106;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my offer to actually pay what that thing costs, stands.
1432667;1457984111;mircea_popescu;solrodar> they chose not to charge it to the company, therefore it didn't count << this is correct. but he's welcome to consider counterfactuals also. just - shouldn't expect me to present factuals for counterfactuals, should write his own story himself!
1432668;1457984129;mircea_popescu;"it was in the red whatever asciilifeform would take to babysit 4 years of bitbet and resolve 1.2k bets."
1432669;1457984155;asciilifeform;now, i cannot pay what these fine massages from mircea_popescu costs. but if he were not fond of giving them for free, i would have to forgo the massages.
1432670;1457984215;mircea_popescu;and do consider that rarely do you see one that doesn't run into this sort of thing : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1424398 ; http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-03-2016#1431058 ETC
1432671;1457984215;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 03:18:27; mircea_popescu: in more practical news - jurov here's one for you. https://bitbet.us/bet/1247/parties-smer-sd-and-sns-to-win-supermajority-in/ is to be resolved. problem is the res source gives vote % and not a word re seats, and the bet is re seats.
1432672;1457984215;assbot;Logged on 12-03-2016 03:45:55; mircea_popescu: there's a graph, it doesn't touch 1bn.
1432673;1457984234;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44250 @ 0.00042716 = 18.9018 BTC [-]
1432674;1457984260;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your offer to pay what the thing costs is going to cost us A FUCKING FORTUNE down the road. you understand this ?
1432675;1457984265;mircea_popescu;stop adding indiscipline to the fucking pile.
1432676;1457984283;mircea_popescu;it's neither becoming of your other talents nor any kind of service to the republic.
1432677;1457984300;asciilifeform;mmok
1432678;1457984324;phf;ftr i didn't raise that as a question, i was clarifying how things are for myself and others.
1432679;1457984346;mircea_popescu;no problem.
1432680;1457984453;phf;i think it's entirely normal for tmsr operation to not have a bedrock, since we've just spent a year exploring just how rotten bedrock is. hosting, "personal affairs", linguistic and architectural choices, what have you.
1432681;1457984464;phf;*"year"
1432682;1457984539;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104870 @ 0.00042765 = 44.8477 BTC [+] {2} 
1432683;1457984643;mircea_popescu;anyway, ima go indulge in sins of the flesh. bbl.
1432684;1457985210;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94145 @ 0.00042716 = 40.215 BTC [-] {2} 
1432685;1457985576;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97433 @ 0.00042665 = 41.5698 BTC [-] {5} 
1432686;1457986125;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28962 @ 0.00042657 = 12.3543 BTC [-] {2} 
1432687;1457986434;jurov;mircea_popescu: it does show seats, but in some HTML5 presentation
1432688;1457986598;jurov;https://volbysr.sk/en/data03.html damn the thing stopped working
1432689;1457986599;assbot;The Election to the National Council of the Slovak Republic 2016 - Final Results ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSD2F5 )
1432690;1457986670;jurov;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_parliamentary_election,_2016#Results you can use this, for example
1432691;1457986671;assbot;Slovak parliamentary election, 2016 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSDaEI )
1432692;1457987373;jurov;from today's log i have learned that it's important to report *all* expenses, otherwise the "did this or that for free" arguments become another nail in the coffin
1432693;1457987408;jurov;deficits go only so far
1432694;1457987501;asciilifeform;jurov: the discussion reminds me of those divorces where the husband/wife end up throwing post-facto 'expenses' at each other for who took out the trash etc
1432695;1457987581;phf;what? the discussion was started by me, to clarify my own understanding, at no point did either side threw expenses at each other. are we even reading same log?
1432696;1457987601;asciilifeform;phf: they never quite got to this point
1432697;1457987607;jurov;yes it was not explicit
1432698;1457987628;asciilifeform;the bbet divorce, as i understand, stopped quite deliberately short of this
1432699;1457987633;asciilifeform;amicable separation, if you will.
1432700;1457987650;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24238 @ 0.00042584 = 10.3215 BTC [-]
1432701;1457987713;jurov;and also if the "trash disposal" fees were acknowledged, bitbet's precarious financials would be talked about and resolved much sooner
1432702;1457987733;asciilifeform;jurov: but what if the wife had charged market rate for the sexx!111
1432703;1457987740;asciilifeform;would there even have been a marriage to divorce from ?
1432704;1457987774;jurov;asciilifeform: i don't see anything like that in this case
1432705;1457987829;jurov;it's not about "who took out the trash" but about "who paid the garbage man"
1432706;1457987838;asciilifeform;jurov: well, we have http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432495 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432662
1432707;1457987838;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 18:23:03; mircea_popescu: solrodar mno. you may not realise this, but bitbet has to date clocked close to 2k hours of admin time. and this is pointedly not minimum wage sort of work.
1432708;1457987838;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 19:34:02; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> << just how deeply in the red ~was~ bbet, if we consider this ..? << i dunno man, how much for a night with my slave of your choice ? for me she'll do it for free, you she will not even consider. and this speaks to phf's and other's q as to why assets weren't on the books since they can be trivially enumerated : yes they can be ; but they can't be VALUED. what's the accounting value of
1432709;1457987874;asciilifeform;that is, as i understand, mircea_popescu's 'bbet consumed megatonnes of grade-A mptronium which i supplied at no cost, and now people expect be to also put in coin for phree?!'
1432710;1457987969;asciilifeform;*me
1432711;1457987987;phf;that was an answer to a solrodar's intentionally pointed question about costs of hosting vs. mp's "time", which was in term prompted by my attempt to understand how bitbet works
1432712;1457987993;trinque;because http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432489
1432713;1457987993;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 18:21:42; mircea_popescu: the latter part come at an end at some point last year, when he asked to have it included in the cost structure. i pointed out to him then that if i correspondingly add my expenses in, we might as well close it.
1432714;1457988000;jurov;yes, i understand it too. i only don't understand the "can't be valued" part.
1432715;1457988017;jurov;if it was one-time development paid from the IPO, then fine
1432716;1457988078;jurov;but the maintenance on ongoing basis, needs a prolly a better agreement
1432717;1457988219;asciilifeform;jurov: do you recall that thread where i asked mircea_popescu to tally up what, e.g., 'v' was worth to him, in money ?
1432718;1457988230;asciilifeform;he - correctly - said that i may as well be smoking crack
1432719;1457988260;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46209 @ 0.00042728 = 19.7442 BTC [-]
1432720;1457988289;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-09-2015#1271492 << mega-obligatory-naggum
1432721;1457988289;assbot;Logged on 12-09-2015 18:04:11; asciilifeform: 'All of this "code sharing" is an economic surplus phenomenon.  It works only when none of the people involved in it are in any form of need.  As soon as the need arises, a lot of people discover that it has cost them real money to work for the community and they reap very little benefit from it, because they are sharing value-less services and getting value out of something that people take for grant
1432722;1457988296;jurov;you see 'v' is exactly the one-time thing. time spent by resolving bets, managing the wallet and such is much easier to quantify
1432723;1457988312;asciilifeform;jurov: but neither was a work-for-hire cash'n'carry thing
1432724;1457988318;asciilifeform;which is the point
1432725;1457988335;asciilifeform;you can't price a thing that cannot be in any practical way traded
1432726;1457988340;trinque;^
1432727;1457988345;asciilifeform;just like it is meaningless to discuss the weight of a planet
1432728;1457988352;trinque;not just "cannot" but more specifically "has never been"
1432729;1457988358;asciilifeform;has not because cannot.
1432730;1457988375;asciilifeform;categorically.
1432731;1457988445;trinque;there's nothing that precludes a market of v implementations categorically
1432732;1457988454;asciilifeform;trinque: that was pointedly NOT the subject
1432733;1457988459;asciilifeform;the subject was the ORIGINAL.
1432734;1457988472;asciilifeform;specifically.
1432735;1457988476;asciilifeform;see thread.
1432736;1457988482;trinque;I was there for the original thread.
1432737;1457988490;asciilifeform;then see again.
1432738;1457988491;jurov;well, that "someone" whose work "cannot be traded" still has to eat
1432739;1457988504;jurov;where does that come from?
1432740;1457988505;asciilifeform;jurov: not in mircea_popescu's planet !
1432741;1457988516;trinque;asciilifeform: your time lacks a price because nobody bought it
1432742;1457988521;asciilifeform;there it comes from the 10,001 koku of rice a true man collects from his serfs
1432743;1457988525;asciilifeform;or somethinglikethat
1432744;1457988527;trinque;it is not categorically impossible to buy your time
1432745;1457988527;phf;there's an utter lack of compartmentalization going on here. the way bitbet is structured is explicit in the contract. only aspect of the operation that's under consideration is "recieve bets, take percentage, pay out", because that's all that shareholders are party to. everything else is between kako and mp and that aspect worked for them. at no point was this arrangement publicly ~questioned~ by any party involved. i spelled it out in
1432746;1457988527;phf;the logs, some people had a conversation about it, that is all.
1432747;1457988536;trinque;but shout some more about the infinite value of yourself
1432748;1457988550;asciilifeform;trinque: it was more of 0 than an inf
1432749;1457988556;asciilifeform;see thread.
1432750;1457988572;asciilifeform;i think mircea_popescu was the one with the +inf.
1432751;1457988639;asciilifeform;trinque: and it is not impossible to buy my time, just that it is not ~practical~ for anyone i consider worthwhile. because it is sold only in very large parcels, and is not cheap. but this is beside the point.
1432752;1457988673;jurov;phf indeed, assigning the 17btc to shareholders is failure of the compartmentalization
1432753;1457988674;trinque;it is entirely my point that it is a question of practicality and not categorical unpossibleness
1432754;1457988691;asciilifeform;trinque: the thread concerned an invention, rather than a certain amount of my time.
1432755;1457988699;asciilifeform;'v' did not actually take very long to write.
1432756;1457988717;asciilifeform;but then you also do not get another thing of similar interest by buying x hours of asciilifeform .
1432757;1457988734;phf;jurov: that's a pointless rim shot, that is representative of the level of discourse so far.
1432758;1457988753;trinque;sounds rather like prospecting; you may find nothing, may find something immensely valuable
1432759;1457988776;jurov;phf, so my conclusion that such compartmentalization is prone to problems, wouls be pointless rimshot too?
1432760;1457988794;asciilifeform;trinque: the actual market value of my prospecting is, empirically, ~0.
1432761;1457988818;phf;jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432304 is what i said about the 17btc question
1432762;1457988818;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:32; phf: i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision
1432763;1457988826;asciilifeform;so either trinque has to accept that v is demonstrably worthless, or to buy into mircea_popescu's 'non-quantifiable' category, or the like.
1432764;1457988928;phf;jurov: 17 btc issue is possibly covered by agreement, possibly not, requires investigation. question of who was paying for server is irrelevant to the ~issue~, not even mentioned anywhere in corporate paperwork, and also produced zero issues so far that were publicly discussed
1432765;1457988941;jurov;phf but how can the judge decide without precedent? was the problem of appropriate expenses for zerofee corporations put into law or any such test?
1432766;1457988997;asciilifeform;do 0asset corps even exist in meatspace ?
1432767;1457988998;asciilifeform;where ?
1432768;1457989114;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 283400 @ 0.00042682 = 120.9608 BTC [-] {4} 
1432769;1457989169;phf;jurov: that second question is a lot more relevant to the issue then a lot of things that's been said so far
1432770;1457989241;phf;jurov: but overall, all that is for us to figure out, yeah? the "judge" in this case is one of our peers, can look at what transpired, present an opinion, "it is the opinion of this judged, having considered all facts available, that mp done goofed". mp can go "well fuck you judge", you can go "that's a fair assessment", negrate mp and move on
1432771;1457989268;jurov;for me that question boils down to judge deciding if mircea_popescu acted in good faith or not acc. to agreement.. which is likely not a good thing
1432772;1457989285;jurov;for one person to decide centrally
1432773;1457989318;phf;jurov: there's no "centrally"
1432774;1457989358;asciilifeform;jurov: i suspect that if you were to suggest to mircea_popescu that a group of lordz could, or ought to, make a collective decision, he would break out in hives and barf
1432775;1457989368;phf;instead the solution is what? to spend a bunch more days repeating same positions over and over again until you leave in disgust, people who are already on the mp side are galvanized, etc.?
1432776;1457989382;jurov;but i already did that short of negrating him, why would i need a judge?
1432777;1457989416;asciilifeform;phf: sadly this is prolly how it will go. at least no mexican ice pick is yet involved.
1432778;1457989441;jurov;phf also judge will prevent the discussion how?
1432779;1457989477;jurov;cmon, i genuinely want to learn what are you onto
1432780;1457989585;phf;i'm a slow thinker, so i'm taking my time
1432781;1457989671;*;mats dips chicken tender into bbq sauce
1432782;1457989719;BingoBoingo;!b 3
1432783;1457989720;assbot;Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/36RHJM0.txt )
1432784;1457989742;jurov;while bitbet is frozen, there's not going to be any end to the discussion, i am afraid.
1432785;1457989833;jurov;phf, maybe if you apply for the receiver and do it ;)
1432786;1457990036;asciilifeform;also it is not clear to me what the folks in the dispute actuall want.
1432787;1457990047;asciilifeform;a restarted bbet ?
1432788;1457990059;asciilifeform;for mircea_popescu to admit that he elbowed a button and crashed the tank ?
1432789;1457990068;asciilifeform;(let's say he does - what good does this do ?)
1432790;1457990150;*;BingoBoingo may be up for continuing to bet on a restarted BBET depending on who acquires it
1432791;1457990175;*;BingoBoingo though is unlikely to on his own carry a BitBet on his Betting volume
1432792;1457990201;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: one of the problems is that apparently it was already not being carried.
1432793;1457990210;BingoBoingo;yes
1432794;1457990212;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58500 @ 0.00042572 = 24.9046 BTC [-] {2} 
1432795;1457990229;asciilifeform;given as it was structured in such a way that ANY unexpected ding would destroy it utterly unless carried by that month's profit.
1432796;1457990232;jurov;i did want bbet restarted, but since today i realized the "can't be valued" part, this is not feasible
1432797;1457990268;jurov;so, best to wind it down
1432798;1457990275;asciilifeform;jurov: this is one of the caveats of the business-cum-guerilla-warfare-battalion animal
1432799;1457990280;BingoBoingo;Who knows, maybe after reciever cuts it up Betmoose would be willing to buy parts and carry it as the sort of reddit betting thing they've been somehow floating for a while. I don't know if I would bet there, but seems like possible buyer for domain/software.
1432800;1457990288;asciilifeform;a very heavy dose of can't-be-valued
1432801;1457990309;asciilifeform;but if you stick solely to can-be-valueds, you end up selling pies in the street.
1432802;1457990336;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: anything can be sold to scammers/spammers.
1432803;1457990344;asciilifeform;but why would you touch it after that !
1432804;1457990356;jurov;asciilifeform: one ought to try to value everything. otherwise end up looking hungry to these pies
1432805;1457990387;jurov;bitbet was not basic research peroject, but a business
1432806;1457990400;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: And that is the problem. Selling to nobies may be the right move to recover stakeholder value, but makes post-sale venture unattractive.
1432807;1457990422;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: unattractive is a bit of an understatement.
1432808;1457990425;asciilifeform;utterly radioactive.
1432809;1457990443;asciilifeform;i won't bet so much as a satoshi at a betmoose or fairlay or whatever other wotless wild derpery.
1432810;1457990446;asciilifeform;ever.
1432811;1457990472;asciilifeform;just like i won't fuck a hole in a rusty truck on some godforsaken junkyard lot.
1432812;1457990486;asciilifeform;it is a ludicrous very idea.
1432813;1457990519;asciilifeform;bbet was ~the~ bet machine, as far as i'm concerned, fwiw, and now there is none.
1432814;1457990600;jurov;but that boils down exactly to it -- when the new owner goes to assing more value to reddit crowds than b-a wot
1432815;1457990609;jurov;*assign
1432816;1457990632;asciilifeform;i suspect that mircea_popescu would rather burn it than let it go to hitler.
1432817;1457990639;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17165 @ 0.00042894 = 7.3628 BTC [+] {2} 
1432818;1457990641;asciilifeform;though i have nfi, you'd have to ask him, to be sure.
1432819;1457990700;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57950 @ 0.00042558 = 24.6624 BTC [-] {5} 
1432820;1457990707;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432804 << this is one of those 3rd rails. there is ~no money actually circulating in the tmsr castle walls.
1432821;1457990707;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:19:16; jurov: asciilifeform: one ought to try to value everything. otherwise end up looking hungry to these pies
1432822;1457990729;jurov;and you know that how?
1432823;1457990741;asciilifeform;because we're all, you see, lordz, and these don't stoop to ever actually paying for anything, they promise one another kokus of rice per year from their serfs if it must come down to it.
1432824;1457990763;phf;jurov: you're right, there's not much that can be done as far as bickering. i find some of the positions rather petty or outright alarmist, but i can't keep people from talking. i'm only thinking that an arbitration procedure could produce tldr that at the very least will focus the attention.
1432825;1457990770;asciilifeform;jurov: very clearly i do not know it for certain, but inferring from the bbet event.
1432826;1457990782;asciilifeform;and from the overall ill health of bbet
1432827;1457990964;jurov;alternatively, there is something but bitbet failed to extract
1432828;1457991009;asciilifeform;so who then extracted ?
1432829;1457991015;asciilifeform;mpoe, trading solely with itself ?!
1432830;1457991040;jurov;i managed to get some crumbs
1432831;1457991094;jurov;but otherwise, that's open question for me, too.
1432832;1457991131;asciilifeform;i guess this is none of our stinking serf business eh
1432833;1457991146;asciilifeform;who the ~real~ lordz trade with
1432834;1457991354;asciilifeform;but i will point out, i see this entire story (the bbet meltdown) though 'shoemaker' eyes, and i never had any idea, whether jurov and kako were part of mircea_popescu's actual inner circle, i.e. folks who actually move serious coin around, privy to how mpb works, physically met his intelligence agents, etc. or not.
1432835;1457991375;asciilifeform;i don't generally ask such questions because i am not dumb enough to expect answer.
1432836;1457991471;jurov;lol i should expect this.
1432837;1457991485;jurov;kakobrekla: should we reveal meta-bitcoin-assets?
1432838;1457991517;asciilifeform;though i admit that i always thought meta-assets consisted wholly (other than mp) of pretty gurlz
1432839;1457991593;jurov;Rest assured he keeps his doings tight, no idea about the girls.
1432840;1457991707;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432588 <<< why is that ?
1432841;1457991707;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 19:09:28; asciilifeform: it ought not to have been possible for the miners to agree on this.
1432842;1457991720;asciilifeform;but more to earth, what i meant was the set of 'high-powered types' he hangs out with when he is not, in his own words, 'tending the daycare'
1432843;1457991767;phf;fwiw since january 2013 bitbet had ~~301.214btc profit
1432844;1457991767;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has on some occasions mentioned actually having phriends in meatspace.
1432845;1457991857;asciilifeform;anyway my original point was that much of what we think of as 'tmsr economy' is not actually tmsr in any reasonable sense of the word, in that it is not effected by folks having a wot presence, nor does it even have so much as iceberg tip in the public forum.
1432846;1457991861;asciilifeform;fwiw.
1432847;1457991891;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432596 <<< and how'd that work? "let's mine these high-s fee-paying txn, and subsequently get ignored by everyone else?"
1432848;1457991891;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 19:10:37; asciilifeform: the failure of such a miner to exist is a game-theoretical smoking gun.
1432849;1457991894;asciilifeform;but rather consists of titanic numbers moving on mpex.
1432850;1457991948;asciilifeform;this bothered me in 2013 ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108 ) but does not bother me today, largely because my giving-a-shit muscle wore out.
1432851;1457991950;assbot;Loper OS » A Review of MPEx, the Bitcoin Stock Exchange. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj4Xdf )
1432852;1457991974;asciilifeform;and because i consider it possible for tmsr to develop into something like a planetoid economy.
1432853;1457991984;asciilifeform;but this is a future thing.
1432854;1457992036;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432847 << you just described a cartel, davout .
1432855;1457992036;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:44:51; davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432596 <<< and how'd that work? "let's mine these high-s fee-paying txn, and subsequently get ignored by everyone else?"
1432856;1457992043;asciilifeform;the 'everyone else' who 'will ignore'
1432857;1457992047;asciilifeform;is what, exactly ?
1432858;1457992048;phf;so zero assets is obviously an oversight, stakeholders were riding that one comfortably until the first snafu
1432859;1457992074;asciilifeform;phf: from rereading the logz, seems like mircea_popescu admits this, even.
1432860;1457992089;phf;right
1432861;1457992225;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56689 @ 0.00042637 = 24.1705 BTC [+] {2} 
1432862;1457992424;phf;http://glyf.org/tmp/bbet.png, there's an insignificant downward trend, but payouts are consistent despite bitcoin fluctuations
1432863;1457992425;assbot;404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj5Br5 )
1432864;1457992572;jurov;phf well.. such magnitude of payouts is fine for coinbr where i'm alone.. not for 2 owners, shareholders, referees,...
1432865;1457992896;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140155 @ 0.00042675 = 59.8111 BTC [+]
1432866;1457992966;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/euihl
1432867;1457992968;assbot;Reject the Ham = All Hell breaks loose : fatpeoplestories ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj6dNA )
1432868;1457992971;BingoBoingo;!up humanoidity
1432869;1457993086;humanoidity;bingo : Thx
1432870;1457993168;humanoidity;would anyone be kind enough to point to a summary of the concerns with bitbet.us ?
1432871;1457993231;jurov;humanoidity: have you seen http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/?
1432872;1457993232;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LamWrs )
1432873;1457993246;phf;jurov: i wonder if there are referees besides kako and mp. owners got at least 75btc each plus sales of shares, plus payouts from unsold shares.
1432874;1457993274;BingoBoingo;humanoidity: At this point everyone really just has to go through the whole thing and excercise summarizing it for themselves
1432875;1457993299;humanoidity;jurov : reading now. thx for pointer.
1432876;1457993304;humanoidity;Bingo: ack
1432877;1457993374;phf;so about $25 a bet pardon my fiat, ignoring hosting
1432878;1457993470;jurov;phf so you think it can go on this way, like, another 3 years?
1432879;1457993519;phf;is that a serious question?
1432880;1457993614;jurov;why not? is $25 a bet before expenses worth it?
1432881;1457993670;jurov;and this $25 goes to whom? all owners together?
1432882;1457993691;phf;no that's $25 to one owner
1432883;1457993892;phf;and i have no idea, and i think that's the problem ascii runs into a lot too, my hour, when paid in fiat, is more expensive by a margin. but my work on various tmsr ventures is unpaid, so a bitcoin operation, that's funneling bitcoins at a steady pace?
1432884;1457993994;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82000 @ 0.00042592 = 34.9254 BTC [-] {4} 
1432885;1457994138;phf;but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don't see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.
1432886;1457994168;jurov;in any case, thanks for the analysis. you're welcome to put it together as qntra post-mortem, and hopefully get more than $25
1432887;1457994169;humanoidity;Is the 17 BTC the operational for this month, or is it the cash balance for the whole thing ?
1432888;1457994233;jurov;humanoidity: neither
1432889;1457994243;phf;humanoidity: way things stood before bankruptcy, 17btc is what the shareholders would have had to eat for the next n months before getting profits again
1432890;1457994254;humanoidity;Also, I'd be interested to know how much bet money is currently parked at bitbet, and how safe these are
1432891;1457994271;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432885
1432892;1457994271;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 22:22:18; phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don't see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.
1432893;1457994304;jurov;humanoidity: this is tbd
1432894;1457994319;humanoidity;phf : thx for explanation, this answers my question.
1432895;1457994352;jurov;they *are* safe but subject to liquidation, about which i have no idea
1432896;1457994378;humanoidity;jurov: Understood. But it also means payout for resolved bets are frozen, I guess. :(
1432897;1457994380;phf;humanoidity: safety interpretation is between you and your counterparties. 750.4btc, as of right now all in their corresponding addresses
1432898;1457994466;humanoidity;phf : gotcha. So there's quite a bit of cash parked in there atm, and 17btc doesn't look like at huge amount to build back. Why on earth was mp's loan offer rejected ?
1432899;1457994482;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28150 @ 0.00042462 = 11.9531 BTC [-] {4} 
1432900;1457994492;jurov;humanoidity: where do you see a loan?
1432901;1457994533;jurov;it was presented as business expense to be carried by shareholders' future profits
1432902;1457994633;humanoidity;jurov: I read "Nevertheless, I am floating its negative cash balance free of charge, with a view of being defrayed from future profits.". I may not be using the accurate terminology here, but it sounds like a loan.
1432903;1457994749;jurov;ok, i misunderstaood you
1432904;1457994796;jurov;!up humanoidity
1432905;1457995092;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79052 @ 0.00042317 = 33.4524 BTC [-] {4} 
1432906;1457995102;phf;so taking out outliers, shareholders would've had to eat it for about 5 months; question is, would've bitbet lasted that long, in which case pitchforking just cost shareholders profits
1432907;1457995175;thestringpuller;phf: so zero assets is obviously an oversight << since corporation doesn't hold any cash outside of "day to day operations" and all profit is distributed, dealing with credit is tricky. what if company needs to buy a foo-machine but is too expensive to book as a one time expense?
1432908;1457995253;thestringpuller;does company get lent credit and just book the bill as an expense? it's probably justifiable if done in a way where shareholders still get to see ~some~ profit monthly, but company doesn't go bankrupt paying of credit.
1432909;1457995458;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.0004228 = 19.1528 BTC [-] {2} 
1432910;1457995516;BingoBoingo;In happier news https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc5WMCzXIAQxsfM.jpg
1432911;1457995517;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UccOkl )
1432912;1457995618;shinohai;lul wut
1432913;1457995684;BingoBoingo;The Bahamas daughter has an ass
1432914;1457995791;phf;thestringpuller: there's a precedent. an mpif credit was extended june 2014 and no dividends paid until credit was payed off july and august.
1432915;1457995915;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432883 << hour's pay in fiat is also stuck feeding obamitler, shameekas, lockheeds, and jamie dimon.
1432916;1457995915;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 22:18:12; phf: and i have no idea, and i think that's the problem ascii runs into a lot too, my hour, when paid in fiat, is more expensive by a margin. but my work on various tmsr ventures is unpaid, so a bitcoin operation, that's funneling bitcoins at a steady pace?
1432917;1457995917;phf;at how stable bitbet is with an occasional massive positive spike), unless, it's, like, a credit to buy an office in san francisco and pitch second round, who cares?
1432918;1457995927;asciilifeform;and the dime left from the dollar, feeds you.
1432919;1457995939;asciilifeform;this is what usaschwitz means.
1432920;1457996010;BingoBoingo;Well this is why alfs are stuck in alf ghettos instead of regions where they'd have the possibility of surplus income.
1432921;1457996028;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: where would this possibility come from ?
1432922;1457996042;asciilifeform;in cheapo regions, labourer is paid proportionately less.
1432923;1457996098;asciilifeform;being a labourer sucks slightly less, or slightly more, between regions, but it sucks fundamentally for entirely fundamental reasons.
1432924;1457996109;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It depends, but some less rebelious servile professions get pay that is more geographically flat. See Medical folk et al...
1432925;1457996144;BingoBoingo;But so long as alf doesn't get to telecommute from Ohio, everything to rent bezzle
1432926;1457996151;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: most of'em squeeze out a fairly pathetic existence if you count pay PER HOUR OF ACTUAL SWEAT
1432927;1457996276;asciilifeform;the pay of labourers is parasitized disproportionately by usg et al for the same reason wolf in the forest is covered in ticks
1432928;1457996294;asciilifeform;he elementarily does not have the power to remove them.
1432929;1457996311;asciilifeform;a mircea_popescu - can remove the ticks.
1432930;1457996314;asciilifeform;from own back.
1432931;1457996328;asciilifeform;in fact, does not even consider ticks as a thing, except when specially sitting down to think about it
1432932;1457996338;BingoBoingo;I thought a mircea_popescu had gurlz to do that.
1432933;1457996344;asciilifeform;a wolf, by and large, cannot even conceptualize the ticks
1432934;1457996352;asciilifeform;just knows, i suspect, that he itches, but not why
1432935;1457996360;mats;TIL msft's proprietary disasm lib incudes a superh disasm, assembler
1432936;1457996372;asciilifeform;mats: superb how
1432937;1457996386;asciilifeform;crashed only 1 time in 10, vs other microshits ? or what
1432938;1457996392;mats;asciilifeform: 'SuperH'
1432939;1457996402;asciilifeform;mats: ah
1432940;1457996403;asciilifeform;l0l!
1432941;1457996406;asciilifeform;best misread ever
1432942;1457996426;asciilifeform;but this is not surprise, mats, a buncha 'pocket pc' items circa early 2000s ran on superH
1432943;1457996427;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432809 < you will feel warm and fuzzy inside if no receiver is found in time?
1432944;1457996427;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:20:43; asciilifeform: i won't bet so much as a satoshi at a betmoose or fairlay or whatever other wotless wild derpery.
1432945;1457996436;mats;asciilifeform: but windows has never run on it
1432946;1457996440;asciilifeform;mats: sure did
1432947;1457996444;asciilifeform;winblowz ce.
1432948;1457996445;asciilifeform;ran.
1432949;1457996451;asciilifeform;i even have, in my collection, such a thing.
1432950;1457996455;mats;news to me.
1432951;1457996484;asciilifeform;mats: hp 'jornada' series.
1432952;1457996511;asciilifeform;http://www.obsolete-tears.com/photos/HP-Jordana-540-series-ecran.jpg << here's one.
1432953;1457996512;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1YT3OjR )
1432954;1457996512;humanoidity;kakobrekla: for the sake of the newcomers here ... can you expand on why mp's 17BTC offer wasn't acceptable ?
1432955;1457996551;kakobrekla;whats next, he loses 170 btc next month and make bbet pay for it too?
1432956;1457996601;humanoidity;kakobrekal: Ah, I guess the implied message is that you believe mp's to be at fault for the double payout ?
1432957;1457996626;asciilifeform;!up humanoidity
1432958;1457996651;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420300, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420304 ....
1432959;1457996651;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 17:15:50; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yes, by the time the 4th txn trying to pay out bitbet vanished without a trace, i was sort-of expecting it.
1432960;1457996651;assbot;Logged on 02-03-2016 17:17:04; mircea_popescu: i'm a masochist like that.
1432961;1457996744;humanoidity;kakobrekla: thx for context, this explains quite a bit, and I'm starting to understand what is making this situation sticky
1432962;1457996870;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432943 << i will feel nothing, it isn't my toy that was broken, nor was i involved in any way in its breakage afaik
1432963;1457996870;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 23:00:27; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432809 < you will feel warm and fuzzy inside if no receiver is found in time?
1432964;1457996901;asciilifeform;i have 2 bits of emotion kakobrekla
1432965;1457996912;asciilifeform;3 on a good day.
1432966;1457996917;kakobrekla;asciilifeform you took a side in alphago bet, neh?
1432967;1457996924;asciilifeform;5 on human
1432968;1457996928;asciilifeform;as announced the day of
1432969;1457996947;kakobrekla;ah, so its a loss-loss for you.
1432970;1457996950;asciilifeform;aha
1432971;1457996954;kakobrekla;lucky you!
1432972;1457996955;asciilifeform;i lost this one pretty solidly
1432973;1457996957;asciilifeform;l0l
1432974;1457996971;asciilifeform;my biggest spend of coin to date !111
1432975;1457996979;asciilifeform;i think c3 was actually cheaper
1432976;1457997001;phf;wait, i thought that most likely now ascii just gets his coin back?
1432977;1457997005;asciilifeform;nope
1432978;1457997009;asciilifeform;why would i get it back.
1432979;1457997014;kakobrekla;it still can theoretically
1432980;1457997014;asciilifeform;i lost it fair & square (afaik)
1432981;1457997026;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: not really, game was 3 of 5
1432982;1457997046;asciilifeform;unless someone can actually ~prove~ google malfeasance, the bet resolves to a machine win
1432983;1457997063;kakobrekla;its up to receiver to resolve the bets that can be resolved or plain refund all that is possible
1432984;1457997070;phf;^
1432985;1457997079;asciilifeform;it would seem like that one can be resolved in the entirely ordinary way
1432986;1457997082;asciilifeform;but whatdoiknow.
1432987;1457997097;humanoidity;kakobrekla: is there a path forward to unjam things for bitbet at this point ? I'm not I am fully groking this "receiver" business
1432988;1457997115;kakobrekla;anyway ftr if it would be solely up to me, this mess would have been resolved in a few days tops.
1432989;1457997126;kakobrekla;humanoidity no.
1432990;1457997153;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: in a way i 'skipped school', did not lose coin in any of the major catastrophes of the dark ages
1432991;1457997162;asciilifeform;(largely because i had none)
1432992;1457997210;humanoidity;darn
1432993;1457997266;humanoidity;I like this site a lot. Sorta sad to see it go pear-shaped for what seems like a fairly simple governance problem.
1432994;1457997279;asciilifeform;i liked it too.
1432995;1457997281;asciilifeform;it ~WORKED~
1432996;1457997353;humanoidity;Also, I'm thinking ... 17/240 is 0.0229 which ain't much.
1432997;1457997375;kakobrekla;240?
1432998;1457997404;humanoidity;Sorry, 17/740 = 0.0229
1432999;1457997504;phf;humanoidity: you're probably thinking 750, and that's outstanding bets, that's not directly related to bitbet assets
1433000;1457997624;humanoidity;Yeah, 750. But what I mean is that spreading that 17BTC loss over the 740BTC outstanding bets might be a way out. The only liability will be the site's rep, and the damage won't be irreparable looks like
1433001;1457997689;jurov;humanoidity: if you have good wot standing with kakobrekla and mircea, you can apply for receiver and do it
1433002;1457997712;humanoidity;Whereas 750BTC of outstanding bets evaporating might upset folks a lot.
1433003;1457997736;jurov;or convince someone to do it
1433004;1457997748;humanoidity;jurov: first time on irc, don't even know what 'wot' is :)
1433005;1457997774;jurov;http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets
1433006;1457997775;assbot;first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )
1433007;1457997791;jurov;wot = web of trust
1433008;1457997816;humanoidity;got it, thx. will read the noob page now :)
1433009;1457997861;jurov;if you know someone in here http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/ you can ask them for help
1433010;1457997863;assbot;WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/231wU3S )
1433011;1457997898;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00042417 = 9.4166 BTC [+]
1433012;1457997956;kakobrekla;anyway imho it would be best for everyone for this mess to be cleared by me and mp - however while im making myself available in full capacity it seems to me mp is unwilling
1433013;1457998086;jurov;kakobrekla: several people asked of your coherent statement, did you at least say you're willing to work with the receiver?
1433014;1457998147;kakobrekla;yes its somewhere in the log
1433015;1457998173;humanoidity;kakobrekla: from a newcomer's pov, you guys seem to be fairly upset with one another, which - given what you built together is imo makes this impasse a bit of a waste
1433016;1457998245;kakobrekla;jurov more specifically http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432278
1433017;1457998245;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:20:43; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432065 << if you wish to help the receiver along through donating all/part of the work in a publicly verifiable manner, that is your privilege and i am sure will be appreciated by the beneficiaries who they may be.
1433018;1457998352;humanoidity;kakobrekla : have you guys explored selling more bitbet shares ? Might be another way to recover those 17BTC, diluting shareholder value a little. And then let bygone etc... and focus on making sure the payout problem can't happen again.
1433019;1457998435;jurov;humanoidity: the contract explicitly forbids dilution
1433020;1457998459;jurov;!up humanoidity
1433021;1457998482;kakobrekla;technical solution to the problem is coded but i dont think it will ever be used. for other solutions - it seems the ship has sailed
1433022;1457998508;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00042584 = 8.9001 BTC [+] {2} 
1433023;1457998521;phf;i take it the issue is not "where" the money comes from (because there's a valid existing venue that worked in the past for this particular usecase), the issue is that of trust, i.e. kako doesn't trust mp for future bitbet operations
1433024;1457998569;humanoidity;jurov: ah, yes, the pgp signed contracts which can't ever be renegociated when external circumstances change. I hadn't realized that.
1433025;1457998606;jurov;they can be renegotiated, if there was mutual will
1433026;1457998615;humanoidity;phf: I see. Hence the "receiver" bizness. Sounds like a marriage counselor is what is needed here :)
1433027;1457998689;kakobrekla;phf you cant have responsibility without liability; no skin in the game - no game. if nothing else, it creates a set of bad incentives. this is how fiat world works and we collectively despise that.
1433028;1457998861;kakobrekla;if bankers are not punished by reality you can end up with the world blowing up
1433029;1457998880;phf;right, so you're saying mp should've eaten the cost to prevent that sort of issues in the future
1433030;1457998935;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60050 @ 0.00042674 = 25.6257 BTC [+] {2} 
1433031;1457998935;humanoidity;kakobrekla: what would you consider to be a fair outcome in this quagmire ?
1433032;1457998951;kakobrekla;eating the cost may not guarantee it happening in the future (the technical solution i made was suppose to do that) but it sure would help
1433033;1457998959;kakobrekla;not happening*
1433034;1457999107;humanoidity;kakobrekla: on the technical issue that bit you guys (re-issuing a tx multiple times IIUC), and the conspiracy theories it spawned, I am wondering if you guys raised the issue with the devs to see if they reach the same conclusion ?
1433035;1457999159;kakobrekla;you dont need devs for that.
1433036;1457999308;humanoidity;kakobrekla: didn't imply you needed them, but getting other knowledgeable folks' opinion on a particular situation doesn't strike me as unreasonable.
1433037;1457999362;humanoidity;Moreover, what bit you here might bite others.
1433038;1457999391;jurov;humanoidity: it was discussed on qntra, even some devs joined
1433039;1457999414;jurov;humanoidity: best if you read last week logs to not repeat everything
1433040;1457999422;humanoidity;ack
1433041;1457999423;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41321 @ 0.00042584 = 17.5961 BTC [-]
1433042;1457999972;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43329 @ 0.00042584 = 18.4512 BTC [-]
1433043;1458000033;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45813 @ 0.00042487 = 19.4646 BTC [-] {2} 
1433044;1458000283;BingoBoingo;!up humanoidity
1433045;1458001069;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432692 << this is actually very true.
1433046;1458001069;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:29:33; jurov: from today's log i have learned that it's important to report *all* expenses, otherwise the "did this or that for free" arguments become another nail in the coffin
1433047;1458001098;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> phf: they never quite got to this point << i dun think this was the case either intended or implied.
1433048;1458001109;mircea_popescu;obviously anyone reading is free to color what they read any way that suits them, but still.
1433049;1458001327;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432701 << the big problem here is that in a nascent economy (and please remember that bitbet was born in 2012, not in 2015, and its primary function at the time was stuff like http://trilema.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/ ie help clear up an entirely INSANE space, which it did admirably well and which nobody credits today because hey, fuck us, n
1433050;1458001327;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:35:13; jurov: and also if the "trash disposal" fees were acknowledged, bitbet's precarious financials would be talked about and resolved much sooner
1433051;1458001328;assbot;The positive market effects of the delivery bet. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzV3mo )
1433052;1458001328;mircea_popescu;obody's thanking anyone for giving up his spleen to MAKE UP the ground on which he walks - it's just ground, a given, forget about it) you want to credit rather than charge, so as to give things a chance.
1433053;1458001419;mircea_popescu;but yes, if you're curious, the reason i might blast at you when you go into a patented jurov tailspin while i'm simply bitchslapping him into oblivion is that you WERE here then, and your spleen is actually part of that same ground. and yes these things matter, at least to me.
1433054;1458001436;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93000 @ 0.00042675 = 39.6878 BTC [+]
1433055;1458001578;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432703 << i'm pretty sure there would have been, yes.
1433056;1458001578;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:35:40; asciilifeform: would there even have been a marriage to divorce from ?
1433057;1458001623;mircea_popescu;this is the same kakobrekla, you recall, who went on a trip to check out a hungarian asicminer on a day's notice, also in these very logs. the sort of rationality of old people is not particularly relevant to the young - and same is true of bitcoin.
1433058;1458001641;jurov;apparently you intended bitbet as a tool to establish The Order in bitcoin, while kakobrekla unawares thought it's usual business
1433059;1458001649;mircea_popescu;possibly.
1433060;1458001704;mircea_popescu;it is eminently difficult to reconstruct what people thought years ago ; famously - one can't actually do this for oneself, which is how proust got to be famous.
1433061;1458002362;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432711 << i dunno why people figure i do all sorts of things myself, not that the idea isn't flattering. but no, i'm no shiva.
1433062;1458002362;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:39:47; phf: that was an answer to a solrodar's intentionally pointed question about costs of hosting vs. mp's "time", which was in term prompted by my attempt to understand how bitbet works
1433063;1458002686;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432731 << this idea seems good in theory. in practice, this is exactly never happening. easier to understand why not, is to understand why there IS something categorically preventing a market in women ; like a supermarket where you go buy one. the ones that are above average have no incentive to participate - see the discussion about lemon laws and the death spiral except
1433064;1458002686;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:47:25; trinque: there's nothing that precludes a market of v implementations categorically
1433065;1458002686;mircea_popescu; in reverse.
1433066;1458002706;mircea_popescu;which is why the only time a market in women exists is when it's maintained by significant outside force.
1433067;1458002729;mircea_popescu;the interests of that force will never align with your naive market theory, and so no, categorically, market in v's isn't happening.
1433068;1458002868;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432738 << this is not generally true. even if it were true - it'd also be the essence of oppression. think well about how a world would look where hunger drives coding, for instance. i dunno if you've ever experienced the classical street urchin of central asia thing, but anyway.
1433069;1458002868;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:48:11; jurov: well, that "someone" whose work "cannot be traded" still has to eat
1433070;1458002894;mircea_popescu;or whatever, read the various bleeding heart reenaction about the fate of the proletarian in the pre-1900s.
1433071;1458002907;mircea_popescu;"the jungle" and all that crud.
1433072;1458002926;solrodar;hi again
1433073;1458002930;solrodar;now that I see that kakobrekla has also agreed to liquidation, I am applying for the job of receiver
1433074;1458002943;solrodar;obviously I'm not well known enough to be trusted with the site funds, so I have a proposal
1433075;1458003012;solrodar;mircea_popescu would continue to hold them in trust, and agree to pay them out in accordance with my ajudication, unless that ajudication was rejected by (say) 10 people currently in assbot's L1
1433076;1458003034;solrodar;whatever else he's been accused of, nobody's called him a thief
1433077;1458003059;mircea_popescu;i'm sure somebody somewhere has, why not. anyway : what do you plan to do to maximize shareholder revenue from bitbet assets ?
1433078;1458003122;solrodar;essentially what you suggested at http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116766 , with a few alterations
1433079;1458003123;assbot;The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1phuhuR )
1433080;1458003166;mircea_popescu;do you have any sort of particular assets that'd likely help ? prior experience in doing this sort of thing (selling online properties) ? connections or otherwise some power putting you above others in some way ?
1433081;1458003243;solrodar;firstly, that I might deviate from the seniority indicated there
1433082;1458003276;solrodar;and secondly, that in the interests of settling this before the end of the year, I might choose to refund some bets rather than waiting for them all to resolve
1433083;1458003305;mircea_popescu;i don't think you take my meaning. have you for instance ever auctioned a domain name successfully ? are you well known in those circles ? anything ?
1433084;1458003344;solrodar;I got your meaning, just catching up
1433085;1458003348;solrodar;the answer is no
1433086;1458003350;mircea_popescu;a ok, go on.
1433087;1458003370;mircea_popescu;well, what do you contemplate setting as a fee and what sort of time interval do you see this taking roguhly speaking ?
1433088;1458003449;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00042487 = 7.5627 BTC [-] {2} 
1433089;1458003490;solrodar;I would also provide a third-party verification that in my judgment the codebase for sale is complete and working
1433090;1458003506;solrodar;for complete closure, 10 BTC, 2 months
1433091;1458003524;mircea_popescu;ok, but in order for such a seal of approval to be worth something, you'd have to be known by someone neh ?
1433092;1458003571;solrodar;asciilifeform inspected my previous work
1433093;1458003609;mircea_popescu;well good, but i don't think he's buying. at any rate, so what do you plan to do to actually get cash out of the goods ? list them for sale somewhere ? simply run an auction here ? details help.
1433094;1458003616;mircea_popescu;a marketing plan's always a good idea.
1433095;1458003737;solrodar;I haven't sold anything of this nature before, but I have managed a number of domain names including one I bought at auction
1433096;1458003760;solrodar;so I am familar with that field
1433097;1458003789;solrodar;I think an external auction would provide the best price for the domain name
1433098;1458003798;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432744 << this is a complicated proposition. the traditional avenue of the dedicated tramp is to join a group, liberally fuck anyone but the alpha of that group, insist that the alpha marry her. this presses a very strict choice on the alpha that's not trivially resolved - if he kills her everyone else loses a fuckdoll ; if he marries her he's fucked, not only stuck with
1433099;1458003798;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:48:47; trinque: it is not categorically impossible to buy your time
1433100;1458003799;mircea_popescu;a wife but stuck with one that actually owns him. third options aren't really very easily accessible. so - no, don't make that assumption, it'll run you to ruin.
1433101;1458003810;mircea_popescu;solrodar ok but run say where ?
1433102;1458003867;solrodar;for the codebase, potential buyers are likely to be fewer, so my initial thought would be to conduct the auction in #b-a with bidders solicited from forums likely to be interested
1433103;1458003908;mircea_popescu;so you're going to try as a package first, then just the domain on a 2nd pass, and advertise this on forums - how many, which, do you have good standing accounts in any (which) or is this going to be just some drive-by spam thing ?
1433104;1458003999;solrodar;yes, as a package first
1433105;1458004060;mircea_popescu;anyway - i appreciate your offer to help, and i don't think it can be summarily dismissed. it has its obvious weaknesses which you may consider improving.
1433106;1458004077;solrodar;my personal standing is irrelevant, as interested buyers are likely to already be familiar with the site
1433107;1458004104;mircea_popescu;perhaps.
1433108;1458004155;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432755 << how did that go, "yes half hour of my time and a lifetime of learning the trade" or somesuch.
1433109;1458004155;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:51:39; asciilifeform: 'v' did not actually take very long to write.
1433110;1458004155;solrodar;the proceeds would be paid to you and added to the pool
1433111;1458004230;solrodar;I would suggest that the domain remains in kakobrekla's hands and temporarily pointed to an address under my control
1433112;1458004277;mircea_popescu;i suppose the "what's the value of code" item is a very vague thing on the internet still huh.
1433113;1458004301;solrodar;much less than the value of a going concern with a reputation
1433114;1458004317;solrodar;which is why I think it's still in both of your best interests to sort this out between you
1433115;1458004352;solrodar;I liked bitbet, I'd be sorry to see it go
1433116;1458004388;mircea_popescu;hey, i liked it too.
1433117;1458004496;mircea_popescu;who was that guy anyway, famously told judge that "he can be born wherever he wants to!" ? painter, accused of passing off a "too shitty to be sold" painting, late us reverberation of the school wars.
1433118;1458004497;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433115   /me is also sad, removing ads :/
1433119;1458004497;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 01:12:32; solrodar: I liked bitbet, I'd be sorry to see it go
1433120;1458004875;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432761 << it's entirely unclear to me what you think this'd do. let's work an example. you sign up for one of those newfangled internet thingees. provider sells you it, you meet the girl of your dreams in australia, keep in daily email touch. provider hikes the rate. you... what, go to a judge, to order the provider to charge you less ? not something the judge can do - an
1433121;1458004875;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 20:53:38; phf: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432304 is what i said about the 17btc question
1433122;1458004875;mircea_popescu;d if he tries, they'll disconnect your thing an hour a day. at which point what, you go to your congressman to sponsor a law making it illegal for provider to disconnect shitty users ? are we trying to rebuild the great nation of america or something ? would be cheaper to just go with the one extant.
1433123;1458004967;mircea_popescu;a judge may decide what a contract means if there's dispute between the parties, which here is what the [judge] sindic aka receiver is going to do anyway. other than that - he can't order for "the world" to satisfy any party's perceived comfort, no matter how dressed up.
1433124;1458004990;mircea_popescu;syndic*
1433125;1458005122;mircea_popescu;i'm aware that they do these weird "can't throw X people off premises" in the us, but the excision of that sort of nonsense is no small part of what tmsr is all about.
1433126;1458005268;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432770 << obviously anyone's free to use the wot as they please (and yes, lack of homogenity is still its only defense against immediate explosive doom) but i can't see myself negrating someone for not agreeing with someone else. seems rather rich.
1433127;1458005268;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:00:41; phf: jurov: but overall, all that is for us to figure out, yeah? the "judge" in this case is one of our peers, can look at what transpired, present an opinion, "it is the opinion of this judged, having considered all facts available, that mp done goofed". mp can go "well fuck you judge", you can go "that's a fair assessment", negrate mp and move on
1433128;1458005279;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00042549 = 13.0625 BTC [+]
1433129;1458005368;mircea_popescu;what's next, you know, ima negrate trump for not voting kanish or w/e that ohio derp's name is.
1433130;1458005594;mircea_popescu;(and since we're on it, this important point seems perhaps lost and is still paramount : "It is important to remember that the score associated to a relationship does not mark the direct trust of the scorer for the scoree, but merely the scorer's confidence that the information he has about scoree is correct, accurate, relevant and complete. All four." from the ever-fascinatingly counterintuitive http://trilema.com/201
1433131;1458005595;assbot;Page not found on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UcrIay )
1433132;1458005595;mircea_popescu;4/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/#footnote_4_53927 )
1433133;1458005653;mircea_popescu;which is how and why chetty's passing bumped her trust in my eyes to 10 : not because she's "very good" now, but because she lacks any further capacity to surprise anyone. at least so goes the logic.
1433134;1458005770;solrodar;bbl, will keep an eye on the logs
1433135;1458005851;*;adlai catches up on 6mo logs, should take Two Weeks(tm)(s)(r), give or take a halving~~
1433136;1458005874;mircea_popescu;at least is better than waiting in traffic listening to dayradio.
1433137;1458006062;BingoBoingo;The problem to selling in a way that maximally recoups value is my chief barrier to bidding. Hard problem I have little experience or connections to do.
1433138;1458006086;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432774 << forget me. suppose tomorrow someone decides that you now like government cheese. what, this makes you ~like it~ ? government can have no such say, no matter how much you love lenin's own republic.
1433139;1458006086;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:02:38; asciilifeform: jurov: i suspect that if you were to suggest to mircea_popescu that a group of lordz could, or ought to, make a collective decision, he would break out in hives and barf
1433140;1458006114;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo every day we discover another planet the republic must build eh ?
1433141;1458006264;mircea_popescu;moreover, and more importantly, if you give over to the government the franchise to interpret private agreements, you provably construct a government even more far reaching than the welfare state, sitting in ~an equivalent position of the miner cartel but for contracts, and soon to issue "licenses to contract" or somesuch insanity.
1433142;1458006307;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Seriously. I have suspicions on how this could be done, but... given the necessary ugliness in this sort of brokering solrodar's bid seems awfully cheap.
1433143;1458006338;mircea_popescu;(perhaps this is obivous to me only for some god-forsaken reason, but the next step after the view on the bitcoin protocol that it permits miners to arbitrarily reject txn and the collusion of miners is - you gotta get a license to bitcoinate. why hardfork to increase their revenue, even.)
1433144;1458006401;mircea_popescu;(and this being future china, you'll be getting six addresses or somesuch, typed out on paper. with misprints.)
1433145;1458006517;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432775 << sadly there is no safe, cheap and effectual substitute for actual life. all previous attempts to build this philosopher's stone (of which there's been no shortage) have come to grief.
1433146;1458006517;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:02:48; phf: instead the solution is what? to spend a bunch more days repeating same positions over and over again until you leave in disgust, people who are already on the mp side are galvanized, etc.?
1433147;1458006740;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432777 << and to think, in the worlds very capital of "murder for hire" even!
1433148;1458006740;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:03:36; asciilifeform: phf: sadly this is prolly how it will go. at least no mexican ice pick is yet involved.
1433149;1458006903;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432792 << perhaps the darkest voodoo involved in all of this, and one which i openly confess i struggled with for the entire interval and never managed to even comprehend let alone do a iota towards breaking was - that there seemed to be ~infinite ammount of bitcoin ready to COVER bets, but very little interest to fund them. somehow, for some reason, even with the strict
1433150;1458006903;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:16:41; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: one of the problems is that apparently it was already not being carried.
1433151;1458006904;mircea_popescu;knowledge that you can drop 1, 10 or 1000 bitcoin on an arbitrary proposition and be covered fairly, people did not wish to do so!
1433152;1458006929;mircea_popescu;it STILL boggles my mind that this was the case ; but the case it was. and weren't it the case - bitbet'd be to this day and forever swimming in a pool of dough.
1433153;1458006963;mircea_popescu;because yes, the thing as it worked is STILL a major improvement over traditional gambling anything, and there's no sane reason i could possibly see that bitbet wouldn't carry a majority of the world's 10bn to 1 trn dollars worth of yearly prop betting.
1433154;1458007003;mircea_popescu;i have nfi, but it was a very bitter thing.
1433155;1458007083;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432786 << the very discussion, perhaps.
1433156;1458007083;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:13:56; asciilifeform: also it is not clear to me what the folks in the dispute actuall want.
1433157;1458007233;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432795 << in this perspective, that it did last 2012-2016 is quite the fucking divine intervention / pinnacle of human achievement, huh.
1433158;1458007233;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:17:09; asciilifeform: given as it was structured in such a way that ANY unexpected ding would destroy it utterly unless carried by that month's profit.
1433159;1458007257;mircea_popescu;!s "we were younger then"
1433160;1458007258;assbot;0 results for '"we were younger then"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22we+were+younger+then%22
1433161;1458007261;mircea_popescu;awell.
1433162;1458007363;*;BingoBoingo wonders what if any L1 or L2 interest in bidding for BitBet software/domain is out there
1433163;1458007715;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432804 << not everything can always be valued. you understand this, yes ? the market, as well as the central planning committee and all sorts of other arrangements (such as - organised religion) exist in an attempt to resolve the "zero-infinity" problem.
1433164;1458007715;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:19:16; jurov: asciilifeform: one ought to try to value everything. otherwise end up looking hungry to these pies
1433165;1458007757;mircea_popescu;they get good results in different fields but a) they're alwyas approximations and b) none of them even cover the whole field - not in the sense of being close but in the sense of EVER OFFERING a value function that may take any inputs.
1433166;1458007769;mircea_popescu;so, like it or not, it is still very much a research project for the human race.
1433167;1458007822;mircea_popescu;trinque's very basic notion above about "categorically your time" thing is just an axiomatic (if erroneous) pillar supporting one of these methods.
1433168;1458007858;mircea_popescu;and yes - for as long as pick one and you carefully sit under its umbrella, never leaving that domain "it works for me!". except we're in bitcoin specifically to see what's out there.
1433169;1458007933;mircea_popescu;one should prolly look through eulora logs for some lulzy examples re the failure of the auction - the free market's revered, holy relic of a chief tool. guess what ? it... doesn't work!
1433170;1458008142;mircea_popescu;(none of this is to say that one ~oughtn't~ try. sure, one ought to try. but also understand that this is exactly like "one ought to try and fuck every woman that can walk within his visual radius". in a veeeheheheheeery theoretical principle, sure. in practice - there is such a thing as penis friction blisters.)
1433171;1458008270;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432813 << this view i share.
1433172;1458008270;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:21:59; asciilifeform: bbet was ~the~ bet machine, as far as i'm concerned, fwiw, and now there is none.
1433173;1458008305;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432816 << it is not mircea_popescu 's call to make.
1433174;1458008305;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:23:52; asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu would rather burn it than let it go to hitler.
1433175;1458008450;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432824 << suppose instead of runnign off to some sort of centralism, you just use the tools available ? they're here for this purpose ; you've seen them at work. gossipd didn't come out of the void, but out of practice based on philosophy honed with practice built on philosophy and so on and again numerous iterations over the years.
1433176;1458008450;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:26:03; phf: jurov: you're right, there's not much that can be done as far as bickering. i find some of the positions rather petty or outright alarmist, but i can't keep people from talking. i'm only thinking that an arbitration procedure could produce tldr that at the very least will focus the attention.
1433177;1458008464;phf;mircea_popescu: jurov pointed out the error of my ways, but i believe that i might've accomplished what i was fumbling for already
1433178;1458008484;mircea_popescu;ytou'll have to excuse me, i run parsed not compiled logs.
1433179;1458008512;mircea_popescu;incidentally, what's the consensus of code wizards, compiled >>> parsed ?
1433180;1458008531;mircea_popescu;(in the general, not re logs)
1433181;1458008833;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432845 << i dunno that this is factual, but w/e.
1433182;1458008833;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:44:17; asciilifeform: anyway my original point was that much of what we think of as 'tmsr economy' is not actually tmsr in any reasonable sense of the word, in that it is not effected by folks having a wot presence, nor does it even have so much as iceberg tip in the public forum.
1433183;1458008913;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432848 << for the record, this is a lot weaker than it seems, for reasons discussed but perhaps worth repeating : it is so trivial to transform all txn into a high/low-S of one's choosing, that there exists no actual barrier due to it.
1433184;1458008913;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:44:51; assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 19:10:37; asciilifeform: the failure of such a miner to exist is a game-theoretical smoking gun.
1433185;1458008978;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432859 << i dunno that every bit of historical item that is no longer as useful as it was is automatically an oversight. but sure, we can entertain that view, perhaps it is informative.
1433186;1458008978;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 21:47:54; asciilifeform: phf: from rereading the logz, seems like mircea_popescu admits this, even.
1433187;1458009116;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432873 << how's the 75 arrived at ?
1433188;1458009116;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 22:07:26; phf: jurov: i wonder if there are referees besides kako and mp. owners got at least 75btc each plus sales of shares, plus payouts from unsold shares.
1433189;1458009239;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432885 << possibly. in truth, nobody but they involved can call the actions either overreacting or not. that's why people got noggins, to judge their own actions.
1433190;1458009239;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 22:22:18; phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don't see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.
1433191;1458009270;phf;mircea_popescu: 50% non-transferable shares split between owners, about 301btc in profit?
1433192;1458009291;mircea_popescu;ah yes, there is that. true, true.
1433193;1458009350;mircea_popescu;ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.
1433194;1458009378;mircea_popescu;tho eulora is slowling clawing itself from underwater. but the usual vc crapolade is nowhere near bitbet, or where bitbet was in its first month.
1433195;1458009873;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432938 << i lulzed.
1433196;1458009873;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 22:59:52; mats: asciilifeform: 'SuperH'
1433197;1458009878;adlai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2016#1418943 << "i don't know i was very drunk at the time" (not trademarked, iirc i didn't even get liner note credits)
1433198;1458009878;assbot;Logged on 01-03-2016 13:49:06; mircea_popescu: "noisehole, bullshitter, blowhard, drunkard, sadist, rapist, all-around disgrace to the sad sad State of Bitcoin (and a passive-aggressive plagiarist, too, to top a cherry on the shit-pan-kake!)" da fuck did you do adlai !
1433199;1458009883;mircea_popescu;"superb how". freudian slip of all time, alf would like a workable dasmer.
1433200;1458009905;mircea_popescu;lmao what!
1433201;1458009929;mircea_popescu;specifically - who did you hurt for pleasure and what text did you steal.
1433202;1458009969;adlai;i hurt my 'reputation', for my own pleasure (and that of lurkers), and got the private keys stolen from under me fingers. oh well.
1433203;1458010010;*;adlai finds that he has nothing further constructive to add to the bitbet receivership saga; wishes mircea_popescu and kakobrekla best of luck resolving it in shareholders' best interests.
1433204;1458010047;adlai;and 'solrodar' too, who has bigger balls than... who knows, maybe she wears them on her chest
1433205;1458010062;mircea_popescu;wait, solrodar is a chick ?
1433206;1458010081;adlai;i dunno, we're all a bunch of text here, except for the chicks that get their nickles one dime at a time
1433207;1458010146;*;adlai for once, shuts himself up, to go sleep. putting preorders for morning popcorn, please keep the logs a-churnin (but do read them, too many idiots showing up here asking for summaries as though people are paid to write them)
1433208;1458010178;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1433012 << quite so. there's a time for everything, and the time for that came and went. it will have to be resolved in the way things are resolved that don't get resolved otherwise.
1433209;1458010178;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 23:25:56; kakobrekla: anyway imho it would be best for everyone for this mess to be cleared by me and mp - however while im making myself available in full capacity it seems to me mp is unwilling
1433210;1458010370;kakobrekla;i dont see where time went but if you say so ... i cant do it alone.
1433211;1458010403;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19219 @ 0.00042487 = 8.1656 BTC [-]
1433212;1458010513;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1433034 << the devs are people residing in this channel in the first place.
1433213;1458010513;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 23:45:07; humanoidity: kakobrekla: on the technical issue that bit you guys (re-issuing a tx multiple times IIUC), and the conspiracy theories it spawned, I am wondering if you guys raised the issue with the devs to see if they reach the same conclusion ?
1433214;1458010568;phf;i thought you guys used a valley startup to build it???
1433215;1458010647;mircea_popescu;wait what ?!
1433216;1458010685;phf;like one of those ben_vulpes shops, $300k bezzle a website
1433217;1458010744;mircea_popescu;im thoroughly confused.
1433218;1458010773;mircea_popescu;no, bitbet was, at least the first incarnation, shivad together by kakobrekla in... whatr was it, two weeks or something, i don't recall exactly.
1433219;1458010927;phf;i'm making fun of humanoidity's assumption that you guys need to go talk to devs elsewhere, by pretending to assume that bitbet was built in a very hackernews bezzel way, i.e. by outsourcing to an agile consultancy
1433220;1458010946;mircea_popescu;oh.
1433221;1458010948;phf;i've also been reduced to explaining lame jokes in log!
1433222;1458010952;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47700 @ 0.00042549 = 20.2959 BTC [+] {2} 
1433223;1458010956;mircea_popescu;sorry, kinda tired. anyways!
1433224;1458010961;phf;yes.
1433225;1458011642;hanbot;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432955 << not to get ahead of myself with you guys, but it seems to me that if these 17 btc were in fact the problem, then you acted reasonably by refusing to sign...whereas if a putative, later loss was the real problem here, a more reasonable approach might've been to sign this report, and work together to ensure that there won't be such a further monster.
1433226;1458011642;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 23:02:31; kakobrekla: whats next, he loses 170 btc next month and make bbet pay for it too?
1433227;1458011857;kakobrekla;hanbot to me this was 'unforeseen' event even if mp did it deliberately (by his own words) - there is no way that one could foresee further unforeseen events
1433228;1458012083;mircea_popescu;hanbot the problem with your take on what's reasonable is that the other reasonable view is to simply say that everything's fine, nothing's wrong and there isn't nor could ever be any cause for expenditure, alarm or ultimately death. in principle this is a view that can not be dislodged, every living thing's expectation to live forever in a functional world is, misguided or not, nevertheless part and parcel of biology.
1433229;1458012084;mircea_popescu; i even sympathize with it, albeit from a distance.
1433230;1458012162;hanbot;i see.
1433231;1458012444;ben_vulpes;phf: it's 400k for a mobile app if you bring your own designer, 50-200k if we design it, 10-40k for a single-purpose webapp with minimal frills and if you need a website, well, squarespace is over there. heck, they even do ecomm, and better than any wordprex.
1433232;1458012537;phf;this is almost the opposite of what my previous company would charge
1433233;1458012576;ben_vulpes;phf: i clearly have no business being in business.
1433234;1458012623;phf;ben_vulpes: i suspect they don't know what they are doing
1433235;1458012635;ben_vulpes;saving people from software is mostly thankless and rewardless.
1433236;1458012714;ben_vulpes;phf: that's an advantage. i can't fleece people effectively with software, being too honest.
1433237;1458012720;ben_vulpes;"nice people die first in holodomor"
1433238;1458012759;ben_vulpes;"are you sure you wouldn't rather secure a loan with that 50k and set up a shop on squarespace?"
1433239;1458012774;ben_vulpes;"great idea! i guess we don't need any custom software after all."
1433240;1458012799;*;ben_vulpes starves, withers on the vine
1433241;1458012836;mircea_popescu;at least you got your youthful good looks!
1433242;1458012878;*;ben_vulpes too depressed about lemon markets to dance for old men and 'rounds' this quarter, probably ever
1433243;1458012965;ben_vulpes;on only a tangentially related topic, when do we get the B.H.-style AN1 that retains all earnings /in/ the corp?
1433244;1458013019;phf;ben_vulpes: you can't trick me, i've been to portland, and i gotta tell ya, there's not much starving going on there
1433245;1458013024;mircea_popescu;you realise what the N stands for yes ?
1433246;1458013039;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i'm illiterate!
1433247;1458013076;mircea_popescu;lettuce spell it out then. http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/
1433248;1458013077;assbot;Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation. The MPEx standard. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuNpRO )
1433249;1458013086;ben_vulpes;yes yes.
1433250;1458013109;mircea_popescu;("but hey mp, you should have moved bitbet to this or something!" "yes yes, aren't you a great visionary, man from the future.")
1433251;1458013121;ben_vulpes;"assetti null" or some such well-coined whatever.
1433252;1458013131;ben_vulpes;hey it looked like a good idea!
1433253;1458013152;ben_vulpes;no shoulds on offer here.
1433254;1458013173;mircea_popescu;ah, i didn't mean you, dun sweat it.
1433255;1458013203;mircea_popescu;just a spot of bitter retrospective jewish humour isall.
1433256;1458013227;ben_vulpes;more looking to the future
1433257;1458013289;ben_vulpes;something must be on the books for there to be any book value, etc.
1433258;1458013412;mircea_popescu;!up stuff0577
1433259;1458013450;stuff0577;hi
1433260;1458013626;ben_vulpes;anyways phf, yes, alphabet corp friends and acquaintances are all having a grand party with the low cost of living.
1433261;1458013707;ben_vulpes;'tis not quite yet a place where one makes 130k predicated on 140k in living expenses, more like 80k in living expenses.
1433262;1458013782;ben_vulpes;the 'umble shoemaker, dedicated to sitting on his ass and never doing anything, will starve in this town until he turns to making fashionable shoes with heels and lace instead of the sturdy things in which men tromp through mud.
1433263;1458013887;phf;seems like most places
1433264;1458013910;mircea_popescu;except those where alf lives and a permanent rain cloud rains bricks upon an acre centered on his head.
1433265;1458013925;mircea_popescu;(which yes, will be an eulora thing)
1433266;1458013930;ben_vulpes;one for mircea_popescu http://www.cam4.com/hotnoielya
1433267;1458013931;assbot;HotNoielya's Cam, Photos, Videos & Live Webcam Chat on Cam4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuORUx )
1433268;1458013942;mircea_popescu;do i have to ?
1433269;1458013950;phf;hehe
1433270;1458014045;ben_vulpes;you don't *have* to do /anything/, mircea_popescu!
1433271;1458014124;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8391 @ 0.00042487 = 3.5651 BTC [-]
1433272;1458014368;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38842 @ 0.00042487 = 16.5028 BTC [-]
1433273;1458015562;deedbot-;[Trilema] Views from a place. - http://trilema.com/2016/views-from-a-place/
1433274;1458018211;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00042342 = 11.39 BTC [-] {3} 
1433275;1458018760;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00042327 = 14.2007 BTC [-]
1433276;1458019797;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00042349 = 9.8885 BTC [+] {4} 
1433277;1458020224;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18451 @ 0.00042327 = 7.8098 BTC [-] {2} 
1433278;1458021017;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38845 @ 0.00042327 = 16.4419 BTC [-]
1433279;1458021505;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39165 @ 0.0004228 = 16.559 BTC [-] {2} 
1433280;1458022569;punkman;such logs
1433281;1458022580;punkman;/me does the vexual
1433282;1458022582;punkman;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IJheTOWpys
1433283;1458022583;assbot;HOMEBOY SANDMAN - STROLL - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1WmA25u )
1433284;1458023213;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00042278 = 19.4902 BTC [-] {3} 
1433285;1458024006;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12037 @ 0.00042275 = 5.0886 BTC [-] {2} 
1433286;1458024616;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34073 @ 0.00042275 = 14.4044 BTC [-]
1433287;1458025287;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54721 @ 0.00042186 = 23.0846 BTC [-] {3} 
1433288;1458026385;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48611 @ 0.00042183 = 20.5056 BTC [-] {2} 
1433289;1458027545;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49382 @ 0.0004256 = 21.017 BTC [+] {5} 
1433290;1458028381;BingoBoingo;!up PaulCapestany
1433291;1458030326;punkman;http://www.m1key.me/photography/road_to_north_korea/
1433292;1458030327;assbot;Road to North Korea - Photography - M1key - Michal Huniewicz ... ( http://bit.ly/1S1j3Eq )
1433293;1458030622;BingoBoingo;chinese playing color revolution game or clintons? http://www.philippinefailblog.com/fire-the-anti-american-hate-narrative-of-the-anakbayan/
1433294;1458030625;assbot;Fire – The Anti-American Hate Narrative Of The Anakbayan. | Philippine Fail Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1S1jrmk )
1433295;1458030741;BingoBoingo;http://www.philippinefailblog.com/my-experience-with-collage-educated-filipino-artists-and-intellectuals/
1433296;1458030745;assbot;My Experience With College Educated  Filipino Artists And Intellectuals. | Philippine Fail Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1S1jBdB )
1433297;1458032831;cazalla;vexual, snorera, w/e ya name is now, shoot me an email, u turned up in log search re: minelabs
1433298;1458035169;cazalla;http://www.antiquities.org.il/article_eng.aspx?sec_id=25&subj_id=240 not a bad find
1433299;1458035171;assbot;Israel Antiquities Authority ... ( http://bit.ly/1RiCmML )
1433300;1458035596;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00042318 = 5.057 BTC [-] {2} 
1433301;1458036694;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39483 @ 0.00042318 = 16.7084 BTC [-]
1433302;1458037304;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107450 @ 0.00042175 = 45.317 BTC [-] {9} 
1433303;1458040343;shinohai;bb noise
1433304;1458041124;nubbins`;<+hanbot>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432955 << not to get ahead of myself with you guys <<< there's two firsts, hanbot couching words and hanbot being rational
1433305;1458041139;*;nubbins` checks his own pulse, attempts to catch up on logs
1433306;1458041329;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433151 << maybe they were afraid their deposit wouldn't confirm until after betting closed ;p
1433307;1458041329;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 01:55:04; mircea_popescu: knowledge that you can drop 1, 10 or 1000 bitcoin on an arbitrary proposition and be covered fairly, people did not wish to do so!
1433308;1458041391;nubbins`;the three major problems that beset bitbet were (a) mp was involved with it, (b) it had zero room for contingencies or unexpected expenses and (c) train-wreck PR
1433309;1458041414;nubbins`;on its own, separate from these three things, great website, great idea. prolly would be thriving.
1433310;1458042351;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432451 << i guess it was meant to live until mp got tired of it, since apparently all of bitbet's money was rattling around in mp's coin purse
1433311;1458042351;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 17:38:00; asciilifeform: nubbins`: was it really meant to live only until the first disaster, however small? e.g., stolen server ?
1433312;1458042408;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432299 << i made my accusations formal and they were ignored
1433313;1458042408;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:26; phf: nubbins`: it's a shame that you chose this approach for your denouncement. some people are here (myself, maybe ascii) not to make money, but to fuck around with novel ways of doing things. it would've been nifty if, as a "lord" if you will, you picked up the game and made your accusations formal, maybe solicited a judge from the wot, made it interesting somehow! you don't have to obviously, but the approach tha
1433314;1458042439;nubbins`;phf for your records: http://deedbot.org/deed-401626-1.txt
1433315;1458042440;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/24OSSrN )
1433316;1458042512;nubbins`;phf: "solicited a judge from the wot" is meaningless, unless you know something i don't.
1433317;1458042633;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432301 << i also didn't think it was a worthwhile conversation to have, but i wasn't about to just watch mp make the ludicrous claim that bitcoin has been forked by a chinese mining cabal, ostensibly with the intention of tranferring all the suckers in this chan over to MPCoin, just because his 0-fee tx got bogged down.
1433318;1458042633;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:27; phf: nubbins`: i think it's a pointless to discuss (and takes away from the core of the issue) whether or not miners are conspiring against bitbet. ascii's been known to say that lizard hitler personally disconnected his node, nobody cared to pipe in then, because it's an established local way of talking and thinking (не веришь прими за сказку). miners are a cartel, they can collectively decide 
1433319;1458042666;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432302 << agreed, he was stupid and his conclusions were not criminal, just completely removed from reality
1433320;1458042666;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:28; phf: into a controversial protocol behavior, mp called it "miners are conspiring against bitbet". you can personally call mp stupid for that, but there's no "crime" there.
1433321;1458042720;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432303 << agreed. however, mp was going to be content to simply just /let things continue from this point/, and that was scammy, and that's why i called him out.
1433322;1458042720;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:30; phf: nubbins`: the core of the issue (the way i understand it) is whether or not mp can use personal funds to pay out bets, and whether he can later ask for those funds back from shareholders. that seems to contradict the contract, so the accusation goes, he's in breach of contract. seems simple enough.
1433323;1458042745;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432304 <<< i disagree, given that bitbet is now in receivership
1433324;1458042745;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:32; phf: i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision
1433325;1458042830;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432318 <<< PeterL it is 100% improper for the 0.00001 btc per share to come out of the auction/sale. the listing agreement specifically says that mp and kako are personally responsible for that disbursement.
1433326;1458042830;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 16:40:41; PeterL: mircea_popescu what about the part of the listing that says shares will be paid out a minimum of 0.00001 ? If selling the domain+code does not cover the 17btc shortfall and this minimum, are you and kakobrekla expected to pay this out of pocket?
1433327;1458042882;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432455 <<< i spoke for the people who didn't like financial impropriety to take place here, and indeed, i was the only one with a tongue.
1433328;1458042882;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 17:39:26; asciilifeform: i must agree with phf. and i think this is how nubbins` ended up killfiled by mircea_popescu, for the 'i speak for trees, for the trees have no tongues' thing.
1433329;1458042893;mircea_popescu;assbot> Fire � The Anti-American Hate Narrative Of The Anakbayan << wait, wait, the anti-gaddafi hate narrative of the usg is not a "hate narrative" ?
1433330;1458042898;mircea_popescu;such weapons of wordswar!
1433331;1458043354;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433193 << FWIW if we're not counting server expenses or admin time, i could probably list a thousand profitable, legit bitcoin businesses.
1433332;1458043354;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 02:35:50; mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.
1433333;1458043356;mircea_popescu;in other news - something that appears as a legitimate outfit from rochester, new york ( thepremierpartners.com ) has apparently managed to lose control over its [email] servers, because they're now sending run of the mill "due bill.doc" spam but from http://dpaste.com/2MV15W2 it seems to be actually sent by them.
1433334;1458043358;assbot;dpaste: 2MV15W2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1pIDVqS )
1433335;1458043374;nubbins`;nubs selling btc posters on the forums is a profitable, legit btc business by this definition.
1433336;1458043382;nubbins`;100% profit, no expenses!
1433337;1458043526;cazalla;does this drama add to reduce the value of the limited edition posters you made nubbins`?
1433338;1458043533;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433228 <<< the problem with your take on what's reasonable is that mp doesn't like it. full stop.
1433339;1458043533;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 03:21:23; mircea_popescu: hanbot the problem with your take on what's reasonable is that the other reasonable view is to simply say that everything's fine, nothing's wrong and there isn't nor could ever be any cause for expenditure, alarm or ultimately death. in principle this is a view that can not be dislodged, every living thing's expectation to live forever in a functional world is, misguided or not, nevertheless part and
1433340;1458043544;*;nubbins` idly wonders if hanbot saved or spent all her mpoe-pr wages
1433341;1458043561;cazalla;imma suggest it might raise the value given some may have been now destroyed, so fewer copies remain out there
1433342;1458043704;nubbins`;cazalla FWIW i'm selling another run of posters right now, and i bumped up the price by about 50%
1433343;1458043730;nubbins`;sold 8 so far, which should pay for the entire run of 100 plus a couple of prime rib roasts
1433344;1458043752;nubbins`;i rarely dabble in retail sales, but when i do, it's generally worth it
1433345;1458043756;cazalla;diff ones or a second run of that bitcoin game you made?
1433346;1458043770;nubbins`;cazalla same text, updated design. yin/yang sort of duality
1433347;1458043777;cazalla;link please
1433348;1458043790;cazalla;did you mention this earlier? don't recall reading it in logs
1433349;1458043794;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387250.0
1433350;1458043795;assbot;[8/100] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [UPDATED DESIGN FOR 2016] ... ( http://bit.ly/1pIEPUf )
1433351;1458043995;cazalla;that original one would've been nice to frame and hang on the wall in this room in hindsight
1433352;1458044052;nubbins`;cazalla the20yearircloud has about 40 of them in his closet, ask him for one
1433353;1458044070;cazalla;lol
1433354;1458044071;nubbins`;TECSHARE on the forums bought something like 10 of them too, and he fucking hates me, so he might sell you one
1433355;1458044099;cazalla;were they not meant to be distrubted by the20year along with btc vouchers or something from memory?
1433356;1458044211;nubbins`;yes, each one has a voucher for 0.1 btc, at mp's direction. he later rescinded the offer
1433357;1458044262;nubbins`;i think he got mad because a bunch of poor renters who don't own computers weren't able to find the time to get on irc, find #b-a, take a photograph of themselves holding a sign, set up a btc wallet, &c &c &c &c &c
1433358;1458044283;nubbins`;bbl breakfast
1433359;1458044853;thestringpuller;cazalla: you up late you 'ol bloke?
1433360;1458045085;nubbins`;http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=elbow*+button+from%3Aasciilifeform << fwiw i think this is an inappropriate analogy to what happened, and unfairly minimizes the amount of agency involved.
1433361;1458045085;assbot;3 results for 'elbow* button from:asciilifeform' - #bitcoin-assets search
1433362;1458045104;nubbins`;did karpeles elbow a button when he deployed test code to gox production servers?
1433363;1458045228;nubbins`;did goat elbow a button when he pushed pirate-backed assets?
1433364;1458045394;cazalla;thestringpuller, it's only 11:30pm here
1433365;1458045404;cazalla;thestringpuller, you're up early?
1433366;1458046152;thestringpuller;i go to work early now.
1433367;1458046210;thestringpuller;not early enough though. i should have been in office about an hour and half ago, but whatever.
1433368;1458046454;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00042602 = 11.5025 BTC [+] {2} 
1433369;1458047154;thestringpuller;https://medium.com/@laurentmt/a-date-with-sybil-bdb33bd91ac3#.g8otr2z03
1433370;1458047613;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00042501 = 16.7241 BTC [-] {2} 
1433371;1458047918;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00042501 = 7.9902 BTC [-] {2} 
1433372;1458048123;mircea_popescu;in the "i bet you don't understand what the bayesian approach to spam filtering turned into pretend-ai after its failure to filter spam" means for your country : the next step is for most all the jobs that are still left to be replaced by this kind of ai - it's cheaper. so you go to the hair salon and you get a hairdo - 80% of the time. hey, accidents happen, here's a free coupon for another one. and yes, you want a we
1433373;1458048123;mircea_popescu;bsite made ? no problem. 72% of the time it even works!
1433374;1458048134;mircea_popescu;you ARE willing to pay 50% of the money for a 72% item, and so there it is.
1433375;1458048162;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98350 @ 0.00042177 = 41.4811 BTC [-] {5} 
1433376;1458048163;mircea_popescu;obviously, you won't be having any money at all to pay for anything at all on the grounds of not being born rich and there not being any further jobs at all; but whatevs, the consumer has got what it came to expect.
1433377;1458048851;deedbot-;[Trilema] E pericoloso sporgersi - http://trilema.com/2016/e-pericoloso-sporgersi/
1433378;1458052310;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19598 @ 0.00042414 = 8.3123 BTC [+] {3} 
1433379;1458052524;PeterL;nubbins` I was under the impression that bitbet shares get either a part of the sale of assets or 0.00001, whichever is higher, are you saying they get both?
1433380;1458054567;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.000421 = 19.1555 BTC [-] {4} 
1433381;1458054994;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.0004232 = 4.1474 BTC [+] {3} 
1433382;1458058498;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433362 << this is nonsense.
1433383;1458058498;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 12:31:44; nubbins`: did karpeles elbow a button when he deployed test code to gox production servers?
1433384;1458058504;asciilifeform;srsly nubbins`
1433385;1458058514;asciilifeform;comparing sending a 0fee tx to pushing pirate ?!
1433386;1458058558;asciilifeform;it is not enough to tear off the joystick,
1433387;1458058566;asciilifeform;but now have to throw it from the cockpit entirely ??!!
1433388;1458058613;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433363 << meant this line
1433389;1458058613;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 12:33:48; nubbins`: did goat elbow a button when he pushed pirate-backed assets?
1433390;1458059582;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433372 << this happened to software ~long, long~ ago
1433391;1458059582;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 13:22:03; mircea_popescu: in the "i bet you don't understand what the bayesian approach to spam filtering turned into pretend-ai after its failure to filter spam" means for your country : the next step is for most all the jobs that are still left to be replaced by this kind of ai - it's cheaper. so you go to the hair salon and you get a hairdo - 80% of the time. hey, accidents happen, here's a free coupon for another one. and
1433392;1458059634;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433374 << naturally, not ~all~ software, and definitely not all hardware, given as there still has to be earth for all the swamp to stand on
1433393;1458059634;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 13:22:14; mircea_popescu: you ARE willing to pay 50% of the money for a 72% item, and so there it is.
1433394;1458059645;asciilifeform;but next step is to whittle away the earth, yes.
1433395;1458059672;asciilifeform;my brother's schooling involved a soviet pdp clone, that worked 'on good days'
1433396;1458059683;asciilifeform;operator would ritually take out, re-seat the cards, kick the thing, etc.
1433397;1458059692;asciilifeform;i fully expect a return to this, of sorts
1433398;1458059720;asciilifeform;e.g., cpu that clocks down to DC as the battery runs down, or the like, will be a first step
1433399;1458059749;asciilifeform;then rationed internet, and then finally rationed mains current, a la best korea
1433400;1458059756;asciilifeform;where you get ~hour/day to power up the tv.
1433401;1458059767;asciilifeform;~on a good day~.
1433402;1458059775;asciilifeform;e.g., Dear Leader's birthday.
1433403;1458059952;asciilifeform;incidentally, it may not be obvious to the alert reader why the power downclocking thing is pertinent
1433404;1458059962;asciilifeform;the answer is, it is to move folks to 'cloud' crapolade.
1433405;1458059992;asciilifeform;consumer pc will contain the minimal necessary horsepower.
1433406;1458060039;asciilifeform;from the pov of the 1970s central planner lizards, the turn from 'pay per cpu cycle' timesharing phyootoore to personal comp was a mistake
1433407;1458060044;asciilifeform;which will now be corrected.
1433408;1458060056;thestringpuller;lol the cloud centralizes the need for internetz
1433409;1458060171;jurov;then why central planners allowed win 3.x to happen? everyone was supposed to run X11 over dialup!
1433410;1458060208;asciilifeform;jurov: microcomp was an unexpected thing
1433411;1458060221;asciilifeform;and none of them had the might for x11, for quite some time.
1433412;1458060229;asciilifeform;nor had anyone the bandwidth
1433413;1458060242;asciilifeform;until perhaps starting about a decade ago,
1433414;1458060245;asciilifeform;to contemplate such a thing.
1433415;1458060262;asciilifeform;even the now pestilentially-common www-based spreadshit/wordprocessor/etc thing is recent.
1433416;1458060284;asciilifeform;already i work in a shop where the modem hiccups and 80% work - stops...
1433417;1458060362;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74600 @ 0.00042075 = 31.388 BTC [-] {5} 
1433418;1458060492;thestringpuller;hahahaha! what a familiar feeling. if internet goes out at small shop that does "web dev", everyone pretty much goes home.
1433419;1458060525;thestringpuller;except the most resilient who set up the "web environment" on the LAN and then do dev that way.
1433420;1458060630;asciilifeform;nah i mention specifically re wordprocessor.
1433421;1458060739;thestringpuller;i thought those could work offline...
1433422;1458061212;asciilifeform;not really, no
1433423;1458061222;asciilifeform;google's lets you type but won't merge iirc.
1433424;1458062253;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00042051 = 26.7865 BTC [-] {2} 
1433425;1458062741;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00042051 = 9.5876 BTC [-]
1433426;1458064083;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00042051 = 17.7876 BTC [-]
1433427;1458065864;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433098 << explain plox, i'm thick.
1433428;1458065864;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 01:03:18; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432744 << this is a complicated proposition. the traditional avenue of the dedicated tramp is to join a group, liberally fuck anyone but the alpha of that group, insist that the alpha marry her. this presses a very strict choice on the alpha that's not trivially resolved - if he kills her everyone else loses a fuckdoll ; if he marries her he's fucked, n
1433429;1458065864;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1433430;1458065887;asciilifeform;what's it got to do with time..?
1433431;1458065960;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433108 << inventin' is this thing where lifetime-of-trade is usually not enough either
1433432;1458065960;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 01:09:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432755 << how did that go, "yes half hour of my time and a lifetime of learning the trade" or somesuch.
1433433;1458066000;asciilifeform;gotta also have the particular mental demon on your back.
1433434;1458066008;asciilifeform;fwiw.
1433435;1458066085;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433133 << it is not entirely impossible for the dead to surprise the living. ask an archaeologist.
1433436;1458066085;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 01:34:13; mircea_popescu: which is how and why chetty's passing bumped her trust in my eyes to 10 : not because she's "very good" now, but because she lacks any further capacity to surprise anyone. at least so goes the logic.
1433437;1458066186;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433143 << this ~will~ come, which is reason no. 1,001 why there can be ~no~ compromise with the enemy.
1433438;1458066186;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 01:45:38; mircea_popescu: (perhaps this is obivous to me only for some god-forsaken reason, but the next step after the view on the bitcoin protocol that it permits miners to arbitrarily reject txn and the collusion of miners is - you gotta get a license to bitcoinate. why hardfork to increase their revenue, even.)
1433439;1458066262;ben_vulpes;"why is the app broken?"
1433440;1458066269;ben_vulpes;"is the JSON too nesty?"
1433441;1458066273;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433181 << i was referring to the massive coinz that move on mpex. dark matter.
1433442;1458066273;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 02:27:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432845 << i dunno that this is factual, but w/e.
1433443;1458066283;ben_vulpes;"the blob is like 10kb -- is that too much?"
1433444;1458066314;ben_vulpes;i cannot imagine what is going on over there.
1433445;1458066337;ben_vulpes;holmes i can read 10mb of json into memory naively and not even begin to sweat the phone.
1433446;1458066337;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433183 << if so easy, how come my high-s txen wait for a week to get malleated?
1433447;1458066337;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 02:28:33; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432848 << for the record, this is a lot weaker than it seems, for reasons discussed but perhaps worth repeating : it is so trivial to transform all txn into a high/low-S of one's choosing, that there exists no actual barrier due to it.
1433448;1458066392;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433262 << waiwut??
1433449;1458066392;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 03:49:42; ben_vulpes: the 'umble shoemaker, dedicated to sitting on his ass and never doing anything, will starve in this town until he turns to making fashionable shoes with heels and lace instead of the sturdy things in which men tromp through mud.
1433450;1458066434;phf;ben_vulpes: i dunno, i've seen some pathological cases in json readers, "too nesty" at 10kb could be one of them
1433451;1458066535;phf;also might consider "too dopey", "too sleepy" and "too sneezy"
1433452;1458067926;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3967 @ 0.00042051 = 1.6682 BTC [-]
1433453;1458068309;jurov;JsonParserExceptionTooTesty
1433454;1458070506;deedbot-;[Qntra] Growing Criminal Obeast And Transmayo Problem Push New Zealand To Plus Sized Handcuffs - http://qntra.net/2016/03/growing-criminal-obeast-and-transmayo-problem-push-new-zealand-to-plus-sized-handcuffs/
1433455;1458071151;deedbot-;[Trilema] xkcd - http://trilema.com/2016/xkcd/
1433456;1458071310;BingoBoingo;https://i.imgur.com/0i37tKX.jpg
1433457;1458071311;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1YX1A2K )
1433458;1458073739;mircea_popescu;davout http://dpaste.com/1WT98PC.txt
1433459;1458073740;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vae0EA )
1433460;1458073776;BingoBoingo;;;google obama war on computing
1433461;1458073777;gribble;Obama Orders War On Computing And Bitcoin With New - Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2015/04/obama-orders-war-on-computing-and-bitcoin-with-new-emergency-order-full-text/>; Obama's Plan to Increase Computer-Science and STEM Education ...: <http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/02/obamas-push-for-computer-science-education/459276/>; Obama administration calls for $4 billion to (1 more message)
1433462;1458073797;BingoBoingo;^ discovered researching new qntra piece
1433463;1458073799;BingoBoingo;;;more
1433464;1458073799;gribble;expand K–12 computer ...: <http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/30/10876838/obama-computer-science-education-funding-4-billion>
1433465;1458073841;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433396 << hey, this was pretty much 100% the itc
1433466;1458073841;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 16:34:43; asciilifeform: operator would ritually take out, re-seat the cards, kick the thing, etc.
1433467;1458073888;phf;i've been to education conferences, and i hafta tell ya, it's not very good
1433468;1458073895;mircea_popescu;(institutul de tehnica de calcul, one of cluj's tallest buildings, certainly its only proper office building for a few decades (complete with cubicals!) and one of the places where ro was going to be defended informationally from the us!)
1433469;1458073981;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433406 << well, has very little to do with either lizards or central planners and everything to do with the death of moore's law. no longer a frontier ? check it out, the preachers will be moving in any day now.
1433470;1458073981;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 16:40:39; asciilifeform: from the pov of the 1970s central planner lizards, the turn from 'pay per cpu cycle' timesharing phyootoore to personal comp was a mistake
1433471;1458074007;mircea_popescu;shoot as many as you'd like, the sort of sniveling cur that'd become a preacher is abundently provided by the perl cunt.
1433472;1458074066;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433416 << i run multiple internets bridged together. prolly costs me altogether less than what yours costs you, business and all.
1433473;1458074066;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 16:44:44; asciilifeform: already i work in a shop where the modem hiccups and 80% work - stops...
1433474;1458074074;mircea_popescu;the advantages of the thirld world.
1433475;1458074126;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433430 << with time ? what time ? oh oh, your time. guess what ? you're the whore!
1433476;1458074126;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 18:18:07; asciilifeform: what's it got to do with time..?
1433477;1458074141;mircea_popescu;the fact that this model exists and is of anthropological relevancy proves that yes, categorically impossible.
1433478;1458074363;phf;BingoBoingo: i've not read the article yet, but truth is, i'm yet to meet a teacher at a conference who's at all qualified to teach computing to kids. at best the approach is entirely experiental, "when you see a tiger^W^Wa popup, you should run away^W^Wcall a teacher" or "https stands for secure!", and the educational tooling is at best an inferior rip off of Scratch but more likely a scattershot gamification of hodge podge algorithmic
1433479;1458074363;phf;concepts "IF you see a wall THEN turn left!"
1433480;1458074418;mircea_popescu;when i was a kid, computing class consisted of prince of persia.
1433481;1458074431;mircea_popescu;i am unpersuaded better curricula could have been devised.
1433482;1458074443;BingoBoingo;phf: The qntra is actually being written on a medical topic, but I was googling the "war on computing" link and was pleasantly surprised when qntra was #1
1433483;1458074455;mircea_popescu;of course, meanwhile usability and friendliness and utf and reddit happened, so that no longer works.
1433484;1458074475;phf;prince of persia would be a step up from the "haaweeey kids i'm ratty the friendly rat and i'm going to teach you, 15 year old adults, about long division. it's haaaaard!"
1433485;1458074521;mircea_popescu;~1/3 of the kids figured out how to give themselves infinite lives by trashing the ram.
1433486;1458074526;*;BingoBoingo in k-12 watched computer training degrade from turtle graphics on Apple II, to adobe dreamweaver/flash on Crapple OSuX
1433487;1458074553;mircea_popescu;INCLUDING a variant which worked on peek and poke in gwbasic.
1433488;1458074626;mircea_popescu;i guess the point i'm getting at is that teaching technology is always and everywhere a secondary concern to the human quality of they being taught.
1433489;1458074653;phf;i've been coding gwbasic on my libretto. i remember a bearded su closed research facility forth guy was telling me "basic rots the brain, man, we get these developers who are forever ruined, i tell you" that was in 96. i wonder what he thinks of present crop...
1433490;1458074675;mircea_popescu;yeah peeps really hated the gotos.
1433491;1458074683;mircea_popescu;only to implement gotos by another name in everything all the time
1433492;1458074735;phf;the purity of scheme continuations! so they let you move execution context into an arbitrary location in the past? yeah! congratulations, you just implemented haf a goto
1433493;1458074850;mircea_popescu;like it or not - the prince of persia curricula is how a country the size of oregon ended up providing half the engineers hired by microsoft.
1433494;1458074995;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo incidentally, since you're maybe the only guy here that actually gas re us politics : admitting for the sake of this argument that trump really is the you know, tell-it-how-it-is, fight back against the system independent bla bla : what does the fact that he isn't making "electronic votes are not a sufficient way to settle this election" a central part of his campaign ?
1433495;1458075008;phf;i started my purposeful computing education by accidentally nuking windows 95 install while trying to get rise of the triad to work!
1433496;1458075018;mircea_popescu;you'd expect the anti-lizard fellow to be anti-diebold definitionally and before anything else. "either paper trial or no vote took place",
1433497;1458075034;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: My position is and continues to be that Trump is merely and agent of Clinton
1433498;1458075035;mircea_popescu;phf you and ~everyone else.
1433499;1458075060;BingoBoingo;He's not anti-lizard by any stretch
1433500;1458075061;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo on the basis of that tidbit alone you'd be logically correct.
1433501;1458075077;mircea_popescu;paper trail* i meant.
1433502;1458075126;jurov;lol so then my education was started by trying to free conventional memory by moving a virus to the highmem
1433503;1458075136;BingoBoingo;Anyways I cast my ballot on paper that was machine read.
1433504;1458075165;*;BingoBoingo ended up voting for the creepy cuban cowboy in the absence of useful polling data
1433505;1458075186;BingoBoingo;Useful would have broken Illinois down by congressional district.
1433506;1458075196;*;BingoBoingo also seriously considered voting Bernie for the lulz
1433507;1458075277;phf;jurov: HIMEM.SYS is where it all began
1433508;1458075513;phf;pelevin actually has a short story "Prince of Gosplan" about that period of eu history (there's an en translation http://www.amazon.com/Werewolf-Problem-Central-Russia/dp/0811218600/)
1433509;1458075516;assbot;A Werewolf Problem in Central Russia: Victor Pelevin, Andrew Bromfield: 9780811218603: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1RMsuVC )
1433510;1458075803;phf;^w4r3z http://glyf.org/tmp/prince.html
1433511;1458075805;assbot;A Werewolf Problem in Central Russia and Other Stories ... ( http://bit.ly/1QVPDbN )
1433512;1458076283;deedbot-;[Qntra] US War On Physicians Escalates - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-war-on-physicians-escalates/
1433513;1458079001;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1433514;1458079007;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.97, vol: 4690.80614301 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 415.05, vol: 5717.49197 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.87, vol: 9999.738613990001 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 423.0, vol: 0.24686916 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.520105, vol: 27091.62690000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.11, vol: 2259.39489663 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 418.34705, vol: 59.02438821 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1433515;1458079009;BingoBoingo;;;more
1433516;1458079009;gribble;417.738766914
1433517;1458079020;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all --currency rmb
1433518;1458079027;gribble;BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2733.18, vol: 27091.86730000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2733.18
1433519;1458079307;BingoBoingo;http://strangernn.livejournal.com/1325242.html
1433520;1458079694;phf;soviet joke. americans purchase a sukhoi airplane from soviets,  comes in parts, there's assembly instructions though. so they go through the process, result is a working tractor. wtf. they break it down, assemble again, tractor again. so they call russian, "wtf, tried assembling all we get is a tractor", su responds "please read fine print, `the product needs to be finalized with a judicial application of hammer and file`"
1433521;1458079843;BingoBoingo;lol
1433522;1458081373;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Rest Easy comments, answered. - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/rest-easy-comments-answered/
1433523;1458082729;mircea_popescu;phf judicious.
1433524;1458082779;jurov;maybe he really meant murican lawyers should do it
1433525;1458082791;mircea_popescu;lol
1433526;1458082819;mircea_popescu;doublefunny joke!
1433527;1458082929;mircea_popescu;in other news, i'm kinda curious what comes of this danielpbarron blog in the end.
1433528;1458082953;mircea_popescu;"Yea so you are an idiot. There�s no need to comment and make these shitty articles. Who are you to determine what �false churches� are? Religion is something an Indevidul believes in. It is what the said person puts their faith and trust in. I just think you should read up and do your research before posting nonsense. Thanks."
1433529;1458082958;mircea_popescu;so far seems to be right on track
1433530;1458083137;BingoBoingo;I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months.
1433531;1458083182;BingoBoingo;Or he'll have to graduate from Wordpress and lead #b-a to a new blogware planet
1433532;1458083391;mircea_popescu;i'm kinda waiting for the lulzy moment when "the community" decides he's you know, religious nut bla bla, then it's revealed he hangs out just fine with flaming iconoclasts such as yours truly, famous stake-in-butt practitioners like alf, sunni muftis like yourself, cascadians and what other scandalous outrages there be in this here menagerie
1433533;1458083400;mircea_popescu;it's only THEM that don't get along, it's not about him.
1433534;1458083402;mircea_popescu;oy vey.
1433535;1458083427;mircea_popescu;o i forgot the jews, did i. THREE KINDS.
1433536;1458083471;jurov;and *gasp* roman catholics
1433537;1458083495;mircea_popescu;those are heretics even according to the orthodox (which literally says - TRUE FAITH. in the name!)
1433538;1458083701;BingoBoingo;Oh, crap! I didn't realize I'd become muslim
1433539;1458083738;BingoBoingo;This is bullish for http://qntra.net/2014/11/isis-introduces-coins/
1433540;1458083739;assbot;ISIS Introduces Coins | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1PaNB22 )
1433541;1458083757;mircea_popescu;how DID you think islam goes ?
1433542;1458083817;BingoBoingo;I thought it involved collecting more devil worshipping redheads than I've managed to cage
1433543;1458083838;mircea_popescu;i think that's shite.
1433544;1458083862;BingoBoingo;Nah, that's all Sunni-Yazidi relations
1433545;1458083887;BingoBoingo;At least this decade
1433546;1458084026;BingoBoingo;I guess #b-a is the most ecumenical religious gathering around
1433547;1458084157;mircea_popescu;btw danielpbarron here's a nice idea for article : step by step guide to run your own wp on pogo.
1433548;1458084198;mircea_popescu;in other news, holy shit selma hayek's an obnoxious, annoying bitch.
1433549;1458084207;BingoBoingo;that's not really news
1433550;1458084223;mircea_popescu;i saw it in frieda and i thought it's prolly the role, right ?
1433551;1458084234;BingoBoingo;But it isn't
1433552;1458084247;*;mircea_popescu just watched the velocity of gary, holy shit she has no problems regular whippings wouldn't have fixed long ago.
1433553;1458084303;BingoBoingo;But, too late
1433554;1458084314;mircea_popescu;i have nfi who told the dumbass that sort of behaviour is independent or whatever the fuck she thinks it is.
1433555;1458084344;BingoBoingo;Fonda prolly told her
1433556;1458084362;mircea_popescu;anyway, the first ten-fifteen minutes are not bad, for the sheer deluge of omnisexual crazy.
1433557;1458084654;mircea_popescu;the credits certainly look like a 70s sexploitation thing ; music idem.
1433558;1458085415;mircea_popescu;perhaps now is a good time to bring up http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428463 for another pass through ?
1433559;1458085415;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:46; mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.
1433560;1458085519;deedbot-;[Qntra] Qualcomm "Snapdragon" Chips Allegedly Riddled With Vulnerabilities - http://qntra.net/2016/03/qualcomm-snapdragon-chips-allegedly-riddled-with-vulnerabilities/
1433561;1458087719;jurov;http://hiddenlolcdn.com/i/64426.gif special for BingoBoingo
1433562;1458087721;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SRi2kF )
1433563;1458088144;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433558 << i'm pretty sure i explained ~my~ position...
1433564;1458088144;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 23:43:35; mircea_popescu: perhaps now is a good time to bring up http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428463 for another pass through ?
1433565;1458088240;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-03-2016#1428765 << thread.
1433566;1458088240;assbot;Logged on 10-03-2016 15:47:10; asciilifeform: surrender is not a strategy.
1433567;1458088252;*;asciilifeform bbl
1433568;1458089340;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433558 << popescoin!
1433569;1458089340;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 23:43:35; mircea_popescu: perhaps now is a good time to bring up http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428463 for another pass through ?
1433570;1458089349;ben_vulpes;what's the point of the shift?
1433571;1458089361;ben_vulpes;make life easy on the miners? why bother.
1433572;1458091739;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform something like "here's a list of my deepest unrelated fears" ?
1433573;1458091750;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes sorry, what ?
1433574;1458091996;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#footnote_7_64828
1433575;1458091997;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1XtSE3K )
1433576;1458092489;trinque;asciilifeform: what's the proper way to apply the shiva vpatches with v?
1433577;1458092522;*;trinque has discovered that it is not - apparently - throwing them in the patches dir, seals in seals, and pulling the trigger
1433578;1458093065;trinque;http://dpaste.com/053S5NW.txt << my flow of vpatches
1433579;1458093067;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1XtUgKG )
1433580;1458093111;trinque;I can press up to asciilifeform_tx-orphanage_amputation.vpatch
1433581;1458093234;mircea_popescu;trinque iirc it was a little ambiguous because bot ha standalone and a bitcoin-derived shiva set
1433582;1458093293;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes ok but i don't get what you're saying here.
1433583;1458093308;trinque;http://dpaste.com/10P5WN7.txt << yeah, it appears I may be missing a patch
1433584;1458093309;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1XtUy4n )
1433585;1458093319;*;trinque goes to look at email
1433586;1458093356;mircea_popescu;trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need
1433587;1458093402;trinque;ah in place of tinyscheme genesis I would wager
1433588;1458093666;trinque;nope, this seems to have to do with press order; the dynload.h in question in the second dpaste is present in the tinyscheme genesis
1433589;1458093676;*;trinque brb
1433590;1458094647;asciilifeform;stop
1433591;1458094652;asciilifeform;pressing
1433592;1458094659;asciilifeform;tinyscheme
1433593;1458094662;asciilifeform;genesis
1433594;1458094666;asciilifeform;!!!!!!!1111
1433595;1458094671;*;adlai hasn't even started yet!
1433596;1458094674;asciilifeform;folks
1433597;1458094681;asciilifeform;just stop.
1433598;1458094706;asciilifeform;it was never meant to be pressed!! Qqqqqqq11111
1433599;1458094717;*;asciilifeform bbl
1433600;1458094739;adlai;rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later.
1433601;1458094773;mircea_popescu;lol.
1433602;1458094852;adlai;mircea_popescu: laughing at my joke!? (nah, probably just at /me.)
1433603;1458094946;mircea_popescu;was laughing at alf's predicament.
1433604;1458095111;*;adlai wonders about his own predicament; people keep telling him to blog about it, but, as the latin teacher said when asked why he gave up correcting people's mispronounciation of his name: "I hate people"
1433605;1458095500;adlai;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/xkcd/#comment-116782
1433606;1458095501;assbot;xkcd on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/22iTC9C )
1433607;1458095581;BingoBoingo;great find jurov
1433608;1458096406;trinque;asciilifeform: you may be the most impossible man I've ever encountered.
1433609;1458096408;trinque;lol
1433610;1458096420;trinque;"WHY MUST I LIFT ALL THIS MYSELF?!?!11!"
1433611;1458096425;trinque;"EVERYONE STOP TRYING TO DO THINGS!"
1433612;1458096658;trinque;or rather, must you bring this leak in your head into everything?
1433613;1458096838;phf;trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva
1433614;1458096866;adlai;trinque: see, perhaps, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-02-2016#1408140
1433615;1458096866;assbot;Logged on 17-02-2016 12:54:09; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2016#1408030 << it had own genesis to establish pedigree with the historic tinyscheme. but shiva is a patch that bridges it into the trb tree. and yes i rebased it, it works with the current trb.
1433616;1458097018;phf;trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug
1433617;1458097305;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1433618;1458097306;gribble;1197205513.09
1433619;1458097314;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1433620;1458097317;gribble;Current Blocks: 402861 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 338 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1433621;1458097346;trinque;phf: you see how your sentences have... content ?
1433622;1458097352;trinque;heh, thanks.
1433623;1458099739;mircea_popescu;adlai https://xkcd.com/1357/
1433624;1458099740;assbot;xkcd: Free Speech ... ( http://bit.ly/1pnbqyx )
1433625;1458100028;adlai;mircea_popescu: i found it and submitted a second comment, but both seem to have caught in the lo-pass
1433626;1458100082;adlai;my bad, the first has percolated through... maybe it's just all the tube-clogging
1433627;1458101002;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433572 << wat?!
1433628;1458101002;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 01:28:59; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like "here's a list of my deepest unrelated fears" ?
1433629;1458101106;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433586 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411373
1433630;1458101106;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 01:55:56; mircea_popescu: trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need
1433631;1458101106;assbot;Logged on 21-02-2016 00:38:10; asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud.
1433632;1458101114;asciilifeform;^ mandatory thread
1433633;1458101141;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433600 << go ahead and plug the mains cord into your arse if you want. but then complain to somebody else, not to me, when the bulb doesn't light.
1433634;1458101141;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 02:18:59; adlai: rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later.
1433635;1458101174;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433613 << dingdingdingding we have a winner !11
1433636;1458101174;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 02:53:58; phf: trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva
1433637;1458101193;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433616 << aha
1433638;1458101193;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 02:56:58; phf: trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug
1433639;1458101296;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433455 << win.
1433640;1458101296;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 19:45:51; deedbot-: [Trilema] xkcd - http://trilema.com/2016/xkcd/
1433641;1458101367;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433530 << don't use the vendor's os. for anything. unless whole thing is a gag gift to an enemy.
1433642;1458101367;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 23:05:37; BingoBoingo: I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months.
1433643;1458101379;asciilifeform;and even when you install own os, remember that there is no rng.
1433644;1458101383;asciilifeform;on the box.
1433645;1458101389;asciilifeform;as on most routers.
1433646;1458101462;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu have a mindphuck - turns out google admits to having jacked up the cpu core count after the single solitary lee sedol win.
1433647;1458101464;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1433648;1458101731;phf;asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?
1433649;1458101811;phf;i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted
1433650;1458101846;asciilifeform;phf: strictly this, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421109
1433651;1458101846;assbot;Logged on 03-03-2016 17:24:15; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet
1433652;1458101850;phf;kk
1433653;1458101857;phf;also http://www.amazon.com/The-Tunnels-Chi-Underground-Battlefields/dp/0891418695
1433654;1458101859;assbot;Amazon.com: The Tunnels of Cu Chi: A Harrowing Account of America's Tunnel Rats in the Underground Battlefields of Vietnam (9780891418696): Tom Mangold: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1pKstuP )
1433655;1458101931;*;asciilifeform buys.
1433656;1458102021;phf;it has a very pro-american/anti-communist bias (and there's a very surprising, complete lack of any SU mentions), but full of fascinating stories of vc tunnel based warfare
1433657;1458102048;asciilifeform;pretty much all american war lit reads like hans rudel
1433658;1458102057;asciilifeform;(at best)
1433659;1458102315;phf;it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics
1433660;1458103677;adlai;deedblog-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/
1433661;1458103678;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1MlK9BJ )
1433662;1458103680;adlai;oops
1433663;1458103683;adlai;deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/
1433664;1458103684;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1MlK9BJ )
1433665;1458103686;deedbot-;Bad URL or network outage.
1433666;1458103695;adlai;oops
1433667;1458103701;adlai;deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/?raw=true
1433668;1458103702;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1MlKbd0 )
1433669;1458103706;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1433670;1458107398;phf;asciilifeform: were you starting with stage3 or earlier?
1433671;1458110088;adlai;;;later tell trinque deedbot- seems to have choked again
1433672;1458110088;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1433673;1458110132;*;adlai fantasizes that his 'jewish wit' was sharp enough to bridge the silicon sarchasm
1433674;1458110794;adlai;hehe, maybe i just wrote the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienp4J3pW7U , robot edition
1433675;1458110795;assbot;Monty Python's Flying Circus - World's Funniest Joke - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/22l5FA0 )
1433676;1458111282;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433535 <<< did someone ring? someone need a loan?
1433677;1458111282;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 23:10:27; mircea_popescu: o i forgot the jews, did i. THREE KINDS.
1433678;1458113188;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00042051 = 21.5301 BTC [-]
1433679;1458119900;adlai;what's the custom for voicing freenode webchat nobodies? (at least replying with "who may you be" gets them to shut up.)
1433680;1458119926;adlai;sorry massiro, should I have said "fix your connection"?
1433681;1458119984;adlai;massiro: (and all future !up-please-ers): introduce yourself politely via pm, or ask somebody else.
1433682;1458119996;adlai;!down adlai
1433683;1458120521;BingoBoingo;!up massiro
1433684;1458120540;massiro;Thank you.
1433685;1458120724;massiro;I wanted to share info about the payout problem with Jeb-Bush-Nomination.
1433686;1458120740;massiro;I wonder if you remember me... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-01-2016#1360779
1433687;1458120740;assbot;Logged on 05-01-2016 05:55:53; massiro: The above site says the fee is 0.001 BTC so I think it is more than enough. Is this related to low/high S value problem?
1433688;1458120771;massiro;I'm sad to hear the Jeb Bush payout accident...
1433689;1458120794;massiro;I think it has something to do with the release of Core-0.12 (23rd February 2016).
1433690;1458120815;massiro;And the spam attack revealed the problem.
1433691;1458120853;massiro;First of all, Core-0.12 stops 0-fee tx relaying during spam attacks.
1433692;1458120878;massiro;Secondly, Core-0.12 abolished mining 0-fee txes by default.
1433693;1458120930;massiro;I have written a (small) wall of text at http://dpaste.com/22W2SCE, regarding the causes of the payout problem.
1433694;1458120931;assbot;Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlSaYT )
1433695;1458121101;massiro;Thank you BingoBoingo for giving me a voice!
1433696;1458121128;BingoBoingo;yw
1433697;1458121705;massiro;To adlai's asking, I'm an occasional bettor at bbet. Sorry to omit introducing about myself.
1433698;1458122266;deedbot-;[fr.anco.is] X.EUR March 16th 2016 statement - http://fr.anco.is/2016/x-eur-march-16th-2016-statement/
1433699;1458125497;thestringpuller;classic starts own node cartel: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4aiiuc/hey_core_you_can_waste_your_own_resources_now/
1433700;1458125998;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433627 << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed!
1433701;1458125998;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 04:03:22; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433572 << wat?!
1433702;1458126191;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433648 << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos.
1433703;1458126191;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 04:15:31; phf: asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?
1433704;1458126238;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433649 << for my own curiosity and the calibration of public judgement, how many lines, how many hours ? or something ?
1433705;1458126238;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 04:16:51; phf: i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted
1433706;1458126382;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433659 << i dunno why you think this odd. as far as my experience goes, 100% of english language literature (long before the days orwell quit and his naive, square jawed colonial subjects took over the pretense of empire) is exactly this "here are our assumptions, which clearly paint us as utterly and hopelessly stupid, let's lampshade it and carry on". i don't think by n
1433707;1458126382;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 04:25:15; phf: it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics
1433708;1458126382;mircea_popescu;ow english speaker even realises there's a disconnect between what the words mean and what his actions do.
1433709;1458126424;mircea_popescu;which, ungenerously enough, seems just a step away from the breakdown specific to shitholes like argentina, where people altogether don't even comprehend words are in any sense meaningful, above and beyond the chirping captive populations of chickens do to reassure each other.
1433710;1458126616;mircea_popescu;massiro it's an interesting theory, apart from the fact that nobody uses core in production, or has for many years now.
1433711;1458126657;mircea_popescu;yes, various derps on poorly connected boxes still play with it. this is about as relevant to the discussion as considering what machines aspiring webcomic designers use when discussing pixar or something.
1433712;1458126682;mircea_popescu;might as well say "it's because pogos", which would be equally flattering just in a different direction and otherwise equally afield.
1433713;1458126732;thestringpuller;lol. p. sure 90% of current pixar staff at one point were aspiring webcomic designers...
1433714;1458126767;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller yes, but they don't come with their own home fucking computers.
1433715;1458126789;mircea_popescu;nobody goes "i'm going to hire joe, he's kinda meh but he has a kickass workstation!".
1433716;1458126812;mircea_popescu;in fact, the difference between THAT approach and what actually happens is exactly the difference between infantile and adult life.
1433717;1458126821;mircea_popescu;in roadtrip they go "we gotta take the weirdo - he has a car".
1433718;1458126833;thestringpuller;sure asking truckers to fix toy truck
1433719;1458126880;thestringpuller;fo shizzle. node is almost up to date 200 blocks left
1433720;1458126882;mircea_popescu;i mean yes, it's true that most of the firemen are kids that played with fire trucks. it is however quite pointedly not true that most of the equipment down at the fire station is toy fire trucks brought in by conscientious neighbourhood kids.
1433721;1458126924;thestringpuller;perhaps the toys should change. much more useful to work on toys that signal real life than say plastic thing on wheels.
1433722;1458126940;mircea_popescu;this entire "look what prb does" is so much cosmo kramer from kramerica industries fixing the fire dept. what was that episode
1433723;1458126982;thestringpuller;the secret code?
1433724;1458126984;mircea_popescu;"the secret code" http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheSecretCode2.htm
1433725;1458126985;assbot;Seinfeld Scripts - The Secret Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1YZy90f )
1433726;1458126985;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1433727;1458127004;thestringpuller;"Meanwhile, Kramer buys a police scanner and decides to help at the New York City Fire Department. When they receive a call about the fire at Leapin' Larry's, Kramer accidentally knocks out the fire engine driver, forcing him to take the wheel, realizing his lifelong dream. However, he is unable to steer correctly and crashes the fire engine, allowing the fire to spread further."
1433728;1458127075;thestringpuller;admittedly Kramer is pretty much a modern VC wet dream. some of the stuff he sells that's "successful" is just...
1433729;1458127093;thestringpuller;for instance the coffee table book about coffee tables that can turn into a coffee table
1433730;1458127093;mircea_popescu;a coffee table book about coffee tables!
1433731;1458127098;mircea_popescu;lol\
1433732;1458127118;mircea_popescu;kinda how decay goes : stuff is the butt of jokes and "how stupid can these stupid people be", then next decade - sop.
1433733;1458127319;thestringpuller;you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)
1433734;1458127406;thestringpuller;sometimes I wonder if we went down another path where the educational toys actually make the next generation more stupid. i always thought it interesting that "children of the future will be smarter"
1433735;1458127616;mircea_popescu;well... computers of the future will be better, right ?
1433736;1458127655;mircea_popescu;intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".
1433737;1458127679;mircea_popescu;(no, no, intelligence is not a THING. it is a behaviour. like dancing.)
1433738;1458127734;thestringpuller;severe lack of education, these days. perhaps not enough beating. or enough starving for dropouts.
1433739;1458127745;mircea_popescu;or any incentive whatsoever.
1433740;1458127777;adlai;thestringpuller: main problem these days is too much bitcoin, they've printed 15 million already and show no signs of stopping
1433741;1458127855;adlai;massiro: cool wall! sorry about the impoliteness.
1433742;1458127889;mircea_popescu;adlai you can just up unknowns, they'll resolve it soon enough.
1433743;1458127906;mircea_popescu;what you shouldn't do is up known idiots, but few resist the temptation.
1433744;1458127917;adlai;meh, i spam enough myself, no need to facilitate spamming by schroedinger's idiots.
1433745;1458127972;adlai;but thank you for the blanket permission :P
1433746;1458127996;thestringpuller;reminds me of conversation I had with CVS cashier. dude was fresh out of high school and I began explaining how banks worked cause I was furious the ATM fees were 5 bucks in that store. anyhow after 5 minutes of confusion cause kid didn't pay attention in school states, "I ain't trynna think that hard man. I'm done with school."
1433747;1458128050;*;adlai tried explaining bitcoin to a flatmate, seven different ways. each time explanation was met with "why can't people just use money". known idiot is now a former-flatmate.
1433748;1458128077;thestringpuller;sure why not live in ignorance. get your 8.50/hr from CVS, blow it on rent, pot and booze, continue on. no incentive for agency. just a programmable cog.
1433749;1458128108;thestringpuller;frighteningly similar to brave new world. (give em soma and carry on)
1433750;1458128111;mircea_popescu;adlai i don't see the problem with this objection ? "they are. that's what i'm telling you. you don't use greek bronze weights, do you ?"
1433751;1458128152;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller hey, life is good, whadda ya want. partay!
1433752;1458128165;adlai;ah, so bitcoin is just another mettle, like gold, iron, greek bronze, and mental fortitude?
1433753;1458128188;mircea_popescu;well, money's a whore, kinda old by now, consequently keeps changing her attire.
1433754;1458128191;adlai;indeed the local rabble love to shout, "BITCOIN ZE BARZEL"
1433755;1458128231;adlai;well if i ever meet the guy again, i'll be sure to tell him mircea_popescu thanks him for not buying his divestment.
1433756;1458128290;thestringpuller;;;later tell asciilifeform Finally experienced the stuck node thing. Interesting behavior. Wouldn't even accept the "stop" command. Had to kill -9 it.
1433757;1458128292;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1433758;1458128350;thestringpuller;mircea_popescu: i guess let them live in ignorance as long as said ignorance doesn't interfere with the adults?
1433759;1458128370;mircea_popescu;everything interferes with everything.
1433760;1458128378;thestringpuller;i never really liked babysitting.
1433761;1458128382;mircea_popescu;this "doesn't interfere" thing's a pregnant fiction.
1433762;1458128416;thestringpuller;why open a nice school in the ghetto, if it'll just get defaced two weeks later?
1433763;1458128416;adlai;yet a precise interferometer is about as feasible as a trustworthy kyristor
1433764;1458128582;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433700 << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu
1433765;1458128582;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 10:59:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433627 << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed!
1433766;1458128590;asciilifeform;pope or no pope
1433767;1458128636;asciilifeform;for anyone who missed the thread, it concerned capitulation to the enemy
1433768;1458128662;asciilifeform;blew my mind that any such thing was on the table
1433769;1458128673;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, this'd be what i mean. capitulation what ?
1433770;1458128680;mircea_popescu;the queston was, what the fuck are we going to do !
1433771;1458128689;asciilifeform;and ~i~ will have no part of it.
1433772;1458128695;mircea_popescu;dude again ?
1433773;1458128699;mircea_popescu;you will have no part in what ?
1433774;1458128716;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: any alignment with a usg-enriching or dimon-enabling phork
1433775;1458128730;mircea_popescu;and how does this relate to what was being discussed ?
1433776;1458128742;mircea_popescu;i don't fuck guys. ok. so ?
1433777;1458128742;asciilifeform;or introduction of material from either into a future trb
1433778;1458128760;mircea_popescu;again. how is this related to what was being discussed ?
1433779;1458128775;asciilifeform;did i misthtead or what
1433780;1458128782;mircea_popescu;you misread so amply it boggles the mind.
1433781;1458128787;adlai;mircea_popescu: you did say we may have to choose the lesser of two evils
1433782;1458128791;mircea_popescu;IF
1433783;1458128795;mircea_popescu;~~~~~IIIFFFFFF~~~~~
1433784;1458128799;asciilifeform;this was re the 'strategy' thread, no?
1433785;1458128800;mircea_popescu;we have nothing to propose of our own
1433786;1458128807;mircea_popescu;THENNNNNNN we will have no fucking good choices to make.
1433787;1458128813;adlai;other than "no fork"?
1433788;1458128829;adlai;there is no spoon, nor a fork. there is a knife, and it lowers kelvin.
1433789;1458128834;asciilifeform;but we have, e.g., a spiffy mircea_popescutronic item from last month
1433790;1458128860;mircea_popescu;adlai wouldja think for a moment ? if miners fork tomorrow, pre-miner-fork trb will not be defensible. because bitfury (you know, kakobrekla's friends) have access to vc capital, and will bridge the gap between us printing press and chinese mining.
1433791;1458128872;mircea_popescu;should have fucking killed those derps back when they were nobody and losing bitbet bets,
1433792;1458128880;mircea_popescu;HOWEVER we didn't, because hey, maybe they do somethign good
1433793;1458128881;adlai;so you're specifically suggesting a "reset PoW" fork?
1433794;1458128890;mircea_popescu;in the end, what they did was they sparked through the dielectric.
1433795;1458128904;asciilifeform;adlai: read mircea_popescu's keccak article
1433796;1458128907;mircea_popescu;adlai i'm specifically suggesting we better stop flailing emotionally and fucking think, because things are not going well.
1433797;1458128953;adlai;asciilifeform: i can't find this article. do you mean the "necessary prerequisite" one?
1433798;1458128962;kakobrekla;dunno about friendship - i havent been able to reach bitfury in years
1433799;1458128969;asciilifeform;i dun flail, i sit on sharp telephone pole and keccak on lunchbreakz..
1433800;1458129011;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.
1433801;1458129016;mircea_popescu;but... i want to believe. sure.
1433802;1458129035;asciilifeform;holyfuk wat?!
1433803;1458129047;*;thestringpuller just walked into the x-files
1433804;1458129071;kakobrekla;nfi
1433805;1458129115;asciilifeform;i can't wait to learn to whom ~i~ somehow betrayed the motherland
1433806;1458129131;asciilifeform;mtgox?
1433807;1458129156;adlai;fwiw, i sincerely doubt miners would "let core devs decide" if they believed "economic consensus" were against the devs; but this leaves open the problem of convincing them of this.
1433808;1458129187;*;adlai does not control economic consensus, nor the miners
1433809;1458129201;mircea_popescu;adlai they believe the rewaerd havling will kill them, which it well might ; and they see the opportunity with all the core/bitcoin-xt/blabla. will they take it ?
1433810;1458129206;mircea_popescu;IF they do, WHAT DO WE DO.
1433811;1458129231;asciilifeform;adlai: do you not see the problem of having 'konsensoooos' in he mix at all ?
1433812;1458129237;kakobrekla;asciilifeform apparently im accused for working for the dark side now, somehow ?
1433813;1458129261;adlai;asciilifeform: partially, although the market price of forkchains makes consensus crystal clear - but only in retrospect.
1433814;1458129264;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: that was the implication? unless i'm thick
1433815;1458129276;kakobrekla;well, rate away!
1433816;1458129316;mircea_popescu;there's a difference between "i know x" and "i don't know x".
1433817;1458129341;adlai;mircea_popescu: hmmm. ok, this is a valid question, my answer to which is: port Luke-Jr's keccak reset from "classic" to trb, and be ready to activate it, should a fork occur.
1433818;1458129355;adlai;but i don't think trb should initiate a fork.
1433819;1458129372;mircea_popescu;at no point was it proposed that trb does.
1433820;1458129386;asciilifeform;adlai: who said anything about porting some derp's turd
1433821;1458129391;mircea_popescu;the entire thing was, we should take stock of the situation, and make some judgements and plan some plans in a complete and responsible manner.
1433822;1458129408;mircea_popescu;just like we [at least theoretically/aspirationally] write code
1433823;1458129414;mircea_popescu;ennumerate the fucking states and test!
1433824;1458129420;adlai;asciilifeform: "port" in the loose sense of the word. let's rephrase that as "some poor code monkey should write a keccak vpatch for trb, but nobody should ever have to use it"
1433825;1458129445;asciilifeform;adlai: nuke must be tested.
1433826;1458129453;adlai;of course, this is why we have ATC
1433827;1458129461;asciilifeform;on live vermin, to be effective.
1433828;1458129461;thestringpuller;had*
1433829;1458129466;mircea_popescu;so again : 1) ~IF~ summer/july becomes the summer of forks, what do we do ?
1433830;1458129480;mircea_popescu;2) IF miners come out with their own fork, what do we do ?
1433831;1458129483;asciilifeform;i liked mircea_popescu's algo!
1433832;1458129500;thestringpuller;what about the 5% needed to veto softforks?
1433833;1458129501;adlai;asciilifeform: you never answered my question. which is mp's keccak article?
1433834;1458129508;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform please note that it was strictly example and not design work ready for implementation.
1433835;1458129512;mircea_popescu;adlai pretty sure the one you said.
1433836;1458129566;adlai;ok, i also like that idea, although as you said yourself, it's not fully baked yet. i also like that it can be initially opt-in, with an ultimatum that it gets 'hardened' by some date, if it hasn't 'softened' by then.
1433837;1458129566;asciilifeform;the only thing i would change is to retain old capital distribution, then keccak has a chance at continuing old schellingpoint.
1433838;1458129587;mircea_popescu;see, now for some reason we're talking on point.
1433839;1458129597;mircea_popescu;i dunno wtf i shoulda done different so this happened a week ago rather than now.
1433840;1458129597;asciilifeform;adlai: you can't 'soften' powe
1433841;1458129607;adlai;asciilifeform: mircea's suggestion is implementable as a soft fork.
1433842;1458129618;mircea_popescu;it is ?
1433843;1458129634;adlai;ie, only miners ~must~ enforce it; once nodes also do, it hardens, and then miners can't choose to reverse the previously-soft fork.
1433844;1458129634;asciilifeform;no, wtf!
1433845;1458129644;mircea_popescu;i'm confused.
1433846;1458129645;adlai;until it hardens, miners could reverse.
1433847;1458129649;asciilifeform;adlai: holy fuck, 2 pows?!
1433848;1458129652;adlai;no.
1433849;1458129655;asciilifeform;wh?
1433850;1458129661;adlai;we're probably talking about different articles.
1433851;1458129690;*;adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"
1433852;1458129726;adlai;which is possible to launch as a miner-only fork, which nodes can choose to enforce, but don't have to; and then at some later date, all nodes enforce it, and miners know they must keep enforcing it, too.
1433853;1458129747;asciilifeform;adlai: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol
1433854;1458129749;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UyPaxv )
1433855;1458129754;thestringpuller;i like how bitcoin mining manufacturers don't even shy away about it: "this is the most powerful miner available to ~the public~" what miners are available to the private?
1433856;1458129763;adlai;asciilifeform: we're talking about the same article. read what i just said, it is about that idea.
1433857;1458129785;adlai;thestringpuller: all the ones that matter
1433858;1458129792;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller might just be boilerplate. replace "to the public" with "on god's own earth".
1433859;1458129809;asciilifeform;adlai: i utterly fail to grasp how this is an idea
1433860;1458129814;mircea_popescu;can't make this sorta judgements on the basis of fucking copywriting.
1433861;1458129830;asciilifeform;wtf is a 'miner-only fork'
1433862;1458129843;adlai;asciilifeform: it's an idea because it means that the "#b-a fork" isn't a hard-fork that can fail.
1433863;1458129856;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno, the crowning of five years of complete neglect of the relay network ?
1433864;1458129858;mircea_popescu;"dun matter anyway!"
1433865;1458129859;adlai;as opposed to "let's make our new blocks incompatible"
1433866;1458129873;adlai;breaking consensus is a hard fork. narrowing it - soft.
1433867;1458129878;mircea_popescu;ok.
1433868;1458129884;mircea_popescu;that much we agree on. go on.
1433869;1458129926;asciilifeform;adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-10-2015#1303934
1433870;1458129926;assbot;Logged on 20-10-2015 22:10:51; ascii_field: 'we'll make trucks over five tonnes switch sides first!'
1433871;1458129959;adlai;well what do i go on about? ultimately the whole hard/soft thing is a terrible terminology, verging on false dichotomy.
1433872;1458129968;*;adlai shuts up and attends to private matters
1433873;1458129975;mircea_popescu;adlai you go about deductively showing your proposal from the shared basis.
1433874;1458129976;mircea_popescu;if, then.
1433875;1458129987;asciilifeform;again how the fuck can pow switch be 'soft' in any sense ?!
1433876;1458130004;asciilifeform;it dun get any harder than pow switchout
1433877;1458130006;adlai;aha, here's the misunderstanding. my proposal was not a pow switch.
1433878;1458130018;mircea_popescu;but the article was ?
1433879;1458130023;thestringpuller;get the miners to execute themselves willingly - softfork.
1433880;1458130042;adlai;mircea_popescu: correct. i was hallucinating an alternate article, which said to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433851
1433881;1458130042;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 12:01:30; *: adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"
1433882;1458130053;asciilifeform;softfecalmatter is how we got here.
1433883;1458130054;*;adlai adjusts meth-lsd dosage accordingly to reduce hallucinations
1433884;1458130092;mircea_popescu;i dunno what all that was but anyways.
1433885;1458130096;asciilifeform;adlai: this is ~exactly~ the old joke with the trucks
1433886;1458130112;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform keeping old coinbases has the advantage and the disadvantage of keeping old coinbases.
1433887;1458130134;mircea_popescu;yes, schelling point to continue, yes with the same idiots/geniuses as before, and thus at a lower adoption interest.
1433888;1458130164;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the advantage is that we become distinguishable from the usual idiot attempts at self-enrichment.
1433889;1458130176;mircea_popescu;certainly.
1433890;1458130176;asciilifeform;the disadvantages - legion.
1433891;1458130187;thestringpuller;this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.
1433892;1458130212;mircea_popescu;i'm not pushing it either this way or that, just want to get all the things on table if possibru.
1433893;1458130229;asciilifeform;it could even make sense to fight on 2 fronts at once.
1433894;1458130251;asciilifeform;keccak-clean and keccak-trbchain.
1433895;1458130290;thestringpuller;clean?
1433896;1458130293;mircea_popescu;(and generally i dunno why this shortcircuit between facts and judgement became fashionable here, seems much too close to the habits of the "independent" demographic for comfort. trust me, if i want to say x i will say it in those exact words, as i have without exception to date. saying i don't know x means i do not know. and similarly, here, and so on. i totally can speak for myself, say what i mean etc.)
1433897;1458130293;asciilifeform;nowhere is it written that tmsr will field exactly one weapon.
1433898;1458130324;mircea_popescu;this much is very true.
1433899;1458130334;mircea_popescu;which was part of my initial wtf at your initial reaction.
1433900;1458130336;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sleep of reason breeds monsters etc
1433901;1458130394;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my reaction now is same as then, i am willing to take part in 1,000,001 variants but not in capitulation to the motherfuckng nazis
1433902;1458130423;mircea_popescu;yes yes. good.
1433903;1458130424;asciilifeform;if i wanted to wear brown all i gotta do is, understand, cross the street
1433904;1458130433;asciilifeform;but i dun wanna.
1433905;1458130449;mircea_popescu;i think the record well reflects this.
1433906;1458130536;asciilifeform;(last night for example i formally turned down the 'encouragement' to try out for 'top secret' and may very well be sacked eventually because of it)
1433907;1458130545;mircea_popescu;so your idea is, that we of course continue to maintain trb as is, but also develop a keccak pow variant, for use in case of forks ? or vice-versa, in case of forks develop it ?
1433908;1458130557;asciilifeform;aha.
1433909;1458130565;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform lol hey, life of your parents! funny how this works!
1433910;1458130577;asciilifeform;quite!
1433911;1458130584;mircea_popescu;how would it go, that commenter's proposal ?
1433912;1458130596;asciilifeform;which?
1433913;1458130600;mircea_popescu;lemme fish it out
1433914;1458130631;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116408
1433915;1458130632;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UyRBjA )
1433916;1458130658;mircea_popescu;basically, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest), and BOTH must be < difficulty.
1433917;1458130685;mircea_popescu;well, hm, that doesn't work as stated
1433918;1458130697;mircea_popescu;what i read there was, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest+nonce)
1433919;1458130697;asciilifeform;keccak is an 'accordion'
1433920;1458130701;mircea_popescu;and obviously, gotta be the same nonce.
1433921;1458130714;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform keccak for this purpose counts as sha-3
1433922;1458130715;asciilifeform;and properly stretches to fit the while thing
1433923;1458130720;asciilifeform;Whole thing
1433924;1458130726;mircea_popescu;that's not the problem, the merkle tree jiggling is the problem.
1433925;1458130735;asciilifeform;yes but it doesn't need the idiot chaining
1433926;1458130757;mircea_popescu;there was no sha(sha( contemplated
1433927;1458130761;mircea_popescu;or you mean something else ?
1433928;1458130769;asciilifeform;linked comment
1433929;1458130791;mircea_popescu;ah ah. that's just assumption imported from current codebase, not intentional.
1433930;1458130822;asciilifeform;also the hashing-the-header thing is possibly evil
1433931;1458130828;mircea_popescu;the valuable idea there is, imo, that you have to keep the same nonce to calculate both sha values. which ACTUALLY does work, or seems to me to work, to do what the article proposes
1433932;1458130829;asciilifeform;enables pools.
1433933;1458130836;mircea_popescu;ie, give nodes a way to make money for cpu usage.
1433934;1458130867;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it can stay as PART of it tho.
1433935;1458130878;mircea_popescu;see, the beauty of this is that it is a TRUE soft fork.
1433936;1458130878;asciilifeform;sure.
1433937;1458130884;mircea_popescu;ie, you still need the old gear + new gear.
1433938;1458130886;asciilifeform;how?
1433939;1458130892;mircea_popescu;not in the faux sense of "soft" used before.
1433940;1458130902;asciilifeform;ok now i'm thoroughly lost
1433941;1458130904;mircea_popescu;(well, it ~can~ be at any rate)
1433942;1458130919;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ask a question ?
1433943;1458130929;asciilifeform;i thought we were bugspraying the old gear people.
1433944;1458130935;mircea_popescu;we CAN.
1433945;1458130939;asciilifeform;for their crimes.
1433946;1458130940;mircea_popescu;we don't HAVE TO.
1433947;1458130948;mircea_popescu;winning is all about preserving your fucking options.
1433948;1458130974;mircea_popescu;in the pow1 = sha(header+nonce) and pow2 = sha(digest+nonce), the first sha can even stay what it is now.
1433949;1458130981;asciilifeform;i can see preserving old capital allocation re coinz
1433950;1458130992;asciilifeform;but hash power distrib? lunacy
1433951;1458131019;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform same argument could be presented in reverse, also.
1433952;1458131036;mircea_popescu;to plenty, present coinbase allocation = lunacy.
1433953;1458131060;mircea_popescu;after all, do you know how much usg stole so far ? do they have more than satoshi yet ? if not yet, when ?
1433954;1458131067;asciilifeform;it depends on who the reader sees as musting die, no?
1433955;1458131068;mircea_popescu;eventually, yes ? not like satoshi is adding any.
1433956;1458131075;mircea_popescu;if only it were so simple!
1433957;1458131124;asciilifeform;the available evidence suggests that, like a bike thief, they steal to ~sell~
1433958;1458131134;asciilifeform;!s waterfall
1433959;1458131135;assbot;119 results for 'waterfall' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=waterfall
1433960;1458131138;mircea_popescu;but this does not detract from their capacity of selling.
1433961;1458131144;mircea_popescu;if one day they come to their senses, what then ?
1433962;1458131150;mircea_popescu;"sell" ? to whom ? etc.
1433963;1458131164;mircea_popescu;im sorry, "detract from their capacity of stealing" is what i meant.
1433964;1458131175;asciilifeform;then, as described in mircea_popescu's articles, they become just another player
1433965;1458131186;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433891   <<< yup :)
1433966;1458131186;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 12:09:47; thestringpuller: this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.
1433967;1458131188;mircea_popescu;not those senses, their other senses.
1433968;1458131205;asciilifeform;waiwut
1433969;1458131227;asciilifeform;how would this look?
1433970;1458131250;asciilifeform;'from now on we sit on all we steal so we can dump in a decade' ?
1433971;1458131263;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform usg currently steals to sell. perhaps. this does not reduce their capacity to steal in the future. if in the future they steal to hoard, or if the stuff they "sold" was just facade, through preserving coinbases we are baking in not just the original satoshi, but also an evil satoshi.
1433972;1458131272;asciilifeform;and meanwhile let it 'go to moon' ?!
1433973;1458131345;asciilifeform;evil satoshi is likewise present in any fork, unless you're convinced - and i am not - that enemy cannot win arbitrary pow miner buildout race.
1433974;1458131361;mircea_popescu;this is also true.
1433975;1458131367;asciilifeform;let's recall which side has si fabs.
1433976;1458131373;mircea_popescu;these are all the moving parts we'll have to count and balance.
1433977;1458131373;asciilifeform;and which - not.
1433978;1458131381;mircea_popescu;the usg does not have si fabs.
1433979;1458131386;mircea_popescu;not anymore than you do.
1433980;1458131397;asciilifeform;intel
1433981;1458131408;asciilifeform;and fuck, people like northrop
1433982;1458131419;mircea_popescu;intellectual property outfits.
1433983;1458131420;asciilifeform;they actually fab in usa.
1433984;1458131432;mircea_popescu;some, not so much not so well etc.
1433985;1458131433;asciilifeform;nope, the latter - fab.
1433986;1458131442;mircea_popescu;myeah, there is that.
1433987;1458131447;mircea_popescu;and of course the nsa foundry etc.
1433988;1458131457;mircea_popescu;altho they sold it to some contractor iirc ? whatevs.
1433989;1458131458;asciilifeform;aha.
1433990;1458131468;asciilifeform;'sold'
1433991;1458131476;mircea_popescu;you mean like "sold" bitcoin ? :D
1433992;1458131480;asciilifeform;standard way to handle budget overruns
1433993;1458131484;mircea_popescu;aha.
1433994;1458131505;asciilifeform;e.g., sandia labs, was likewise 'sold' iirc.
1433995;1458131588;asciilifeform;so - usg can build, if pressed, machines. ~whereas~ existing coinbases they can only reallocate, save a ecdsa break, by knocking people over the head. which is loud and somewhat costly.
1433996;1458131602;mircea_popescu;neither loud nor costly to date.
1433997;1458131613;asciilifeform;and has well-documented countermeasures.
1433998;1458131620;mircea_popescu;to a point.
1433999;1458131629;asciilifeform;ulbricht was mighty loud.
1434000;1458131634;mircea_popescu;really ?
1434001;1458131640;mircea_popescu;who got shot ?
1434002;1458131649;asciilifeform;and if he had a pin to pull, the nazis would have nothing.
1434003;1458131664;mircea_popescu;if btc people were the sort where it'd cost about 1.25 heads of usg agent per bitcoin stolen, this is one thing.
1434004;1458131672;mircea_popescu;btc people so far seem much lower effort than that.
1434005;1458131684;mircea_popescu;so i can't compute this like you would. it's silent and cheap, not loud, not costly.
1434006;1458131695;asciilifeform;destroying the keys would be a start.
1434007;1458131708;mircea_popescu;not being an anglotard - even better start. and yet...
1434008;1458131733;asciilifeform;scorched earth device is usable by ~anyone.
1434009;1458131737;mircea_popescu;i would propose to you that "destroying the keys" feels exactly like "moving to argentina" does to you.
1434010;1458131749;mircea_popescu;so it is usable by anyone who doesn't work, live, was educated or born in the us.
1434011;1458131752;asciilifeform;i suppose.
1434012;1458131768;mircea_popescu;this utter fear of finality they bake into all their runts.
1434013;1458131778;mircea_popescu;"omaigerd what do you mean it's finished!"
1434014;1458131803;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu knows that i'd be on the next flight if i were properly 13337 and knew how to pay the rentz there.
1434015;1458131818;mircea_popescu;hahahaha. and similarly i know that they WOULDNT NEED TO pull the pin
1434016;1458131832;mircea_popescu;if they were properly leet and called their secret legions to battle with da polis.
1434017;1458131836;mircea_popescu;derp, srsly.
1434018;1458131840;asciilifeform;l0l point
1434019;1458131865;asciilifeform;then we're really speaking of eating one's nagant
1434020;1458131872;asciilifeform;which plenty of folks do
1434021;1458131882;asciilifeform;and yet others - study to do
1434022;1458131896;mircea_popescu;yes, plenty of folk do. that  don't work, live, were educated or born in the us.
1434023;1458131928;asciilifeform;whatchatalkingabout usa inmates drop like flies
1434024;1458131929;mircea_popescu;suddenly we understand the importance of national heroes like joe stack
1434025;1458131938;mircea_popescu;it protects an entire fucking population from the above being an absolute.
1434026;1458131940;asciilifeform;they suicide at drop of a hat!
1434027;1458131946;mircea_popescu;yehimsure.
1434028;1458131959;asciilifeform;usually cheaply/boringly
1434029;1458131964;asciilifeform;but just as dead
1434030;1458132023;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu this is a country where , i suspect, most folks' retirement plan is a .45 !
1434031;1458132064;asciilifeform;'Colt Life&Health Co.'
1434032;1458132174;asciilifeform;but mircea_popescu nailed it, 'get on the boat with the shirt on yer back' is a kind of death-lite-version
1434033;1458132206;asciilifeform;been there, done that.
1434034;1458132232;asciilifeform;witnessed the effect on older folk, too.
1434035;1458132310;mircea_popescu;aha.
1434036;1458132346;mircea_popescu;i enjoy it so much i do it spuriously.
1434037;1458132353;asciilifeform;mno.
1434038;1458132361;mircea_popescu;do tell ?
1434039;1458132385;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu , what, threw out his capital ?
1434040;1458132392;asciilifeform;all of it?
1434041;1458132401;asciilifeform;went with shirt?!
1434042;1458132421;mircea_popescu;i did build and burn a number of fortunes, but in my younger years. nevertheless : you know, peter ALSO didn't HAVE TO take the imperial guard with.
1434043;1458132425;mircea_popescu;it's an option, not an obligation.
1434044;1458132433;asciilifeform;no phriend-who-owes-him-a-block-of-flats either !
1434045;1458132439;mircea_popescu;for actual emperors. not for fuckrags a la obama, but for actual emperors.
1434046;1458132483;asciilifeform;whatever nietzschetronic etc. etc.
1434047;1458132500;mircea_popescu;dun haet.
1434048;1458132513;asciilifeform;l0lz
1434049;1458132563;asciilifeform;yahyah mircea_popescu has esp powerz and they aint for sale and follow him through the seven worlds etc etc
1434050;1458132572;asciilifeform;but i was talking about mortals.
1434051;1458132586;mircea_popescu;dun haet!!1
1434052;1458132618;mircea_popescu;mortals ain't pulling any pins, you see. so yea, "anyonecandoit".
1434053;1458132641;asciilifeform;not ntirely unrelatedly, usg is doing an impromptu collapse drill under the guise of fire inspection, and closes the whole motherfuckng subway for 24h
1434054;1458132674;asciilifeform;so now i go and see what 100,000 extra cars look like.
1434055;1458132680;*;asciilifeform bbl 
1434056;1458132710;*;mircea_popescu had a friend, and a fine fellow he was, who unfortunately died young. but we were friends from childhood
1434057;1458132778;mircea_popescu;my earliest memory of him is, we were in some rural setting, dun recall whose grandparents, and we had chicks (kids get young hatchlings to play with in the time and place, it's a time-honored tradition like getting your toddler one of those dingly noise things to put above the crib or w/e)
1434058;1458132802;mircea_popescu;some younger kid that didn't have one wanted to play with his, this guy would have none of it, eventually some adult intervened to make him share
1434059;1458132820;mircea_popescu;so he turned the chicks neck and threw the corpse at the whiner.
1434060;1458132846;mircea_popescu;school hadn't yet started, so we were prolly 6 or so. but this was a rare concept even at that age.
1434061;1458132849;mircea_popescu;~EVEN~ at that age.
1434062;1458132879;thestringpuller;shutting the studio down?
1434063;1458132899;thestringpuller;very p. diddy-esque
1434064;1458134997;mircea_popescu;and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/dc33a2028212d40e6e9ec9b9f889e90f/tumblr_nczbyyHu0n1t2qfvbo1_1280.jpg
1434065;1458134997;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1ptORZA )
1434066;1458135224;shinohai;;;later tell BingoBoingo ping me when you have time to look at possible qntra submission. Grazie.
1434067;1458135225;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1434068;1458135569;mircea_popescu;(and to cap that story - yea the adults expressed outrage ["how could you do that!"] but no, he wasn't punished, because no there was no offense, and the father(s) wouldn't have it, or generally let the women run amok with their nonsense. so hurray for patriarchy or whatever, boo the psychopaths of this world!)
1434069;1458135939;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433536 << /me extends hand to receive host
1434070;1458135939;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 23:11:11; jurov: and *gasp* roman catholics
1434071;1458136191;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433764 <<< the general case is true here too
1434072;1458136191;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 11:43:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433700 << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu
1434073;1458136300;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433800 << lel
1434074;1458136300;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 11:50:11; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.
1434075;1458136551;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60550 @ 0.0004201 = 25.4371 BTC [-] {4} 
1434076;1458136985;nubbins`;davout you have a 21.co?
1434077;1458137016;nubbins`;anyone else apply for s.bbet receivership job?
1434078;1458137031;*;nubbins` guesses nobody except for that one turbo-unqualified nobody
1434079;1458137148;nubbins`;!up dbclk
1434080;1458137154;nubbins`;wat
1434081;1458137193;nubbins`;!up dbclk
1434082;1458137256;davout;nubbins`: just interested in seeing who's paying attention
1434083;1458137262;nubbins`;8)
1434084;1458137494;jurov;i wish i had rather not pay attention
1434085;1458137536;nubbins`;jurov it would make things easier
1434086;1458137560;nubbins`;oh FWIW i'm doing another run of posters https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387250.0
1434087;1458137562;assbot;[10/100] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [UPDATED DESIGN FOR 2016] ... ( http://bit.ly/1pIEPUf )
1434088;1458137952;trinque;adlai: your deed will send as soon as this thing reimports its key into the wallet for the 30th time
1434089;1458137963;adlai;mircea_popescu: that is such a terrible story, the child should have been spanked for chiccicide
1434090;1458137964;trinque;$ LC_ALL=C bitcoind listaccounts
1434091;1458137967;trinque;{
1434092;1458137969;trinque;    "" : -0.00020000
1434093;1458137971;trinque;}
1434094;1458137975;adlai;aha looks like trinque is pulling a ben_vulpes ?
1434095;1458137983;trinque;pardon?
1434096;1458137987;adlai;nvm
1434097;1458137989;mircea_popescu;yeah im sure.
1434098;1458138002;adlai;masheu beanglit
1434099;1458138003;mircea_popescu;what's so terrible about it ?
1434100;1458138023;adlai;the child should have been spanked! you don't just go around letting your kids kill things, without a little flick on the butt
1434101;1458138042;mircea_popescu;and why not ?
1434102;1458138050;trinque;when I had a cat it killed things all the time, for fun.
1434103;1458138065;mircea_popescu;cats are particularly bloodthirsty huh.
1434104;1458138075;mircea_popescu;anyway, http://trilema.com/2016/the-chick-incident/
1434105;1458138076;assbot;The chick incident on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/21v8z2T )
1434106;1458138176;adlai;mircea_popescu: i wanna answer with a log link, but the search is failing so i'll quote instead: "mircea_popescu: *-cide is never justifiable"
1434107;1458138203;adlai;although the * in that context was just a bunch of cells!
1434108;1458138221;adlai;(for the lispless in the audience, cells are a human invention, by kenny tilton)
1434109;1458138240;adlai;somebody on better terms with that man oughtta invite him in here someday.
1434110;1458138257;mircea_popescu;i don't think justification was attempted.
1434111;1458138261;mircea_popescu;breathing is also never justifiable.
1434112;1458138273;adlai;iirc somebody asked you whether you justify abortion or somesuch
1434113;1458138279;mircea_popescu;best find the link.
1434114;1458138288;adlai;!s mircea abortion
1434115;1458138288;assbot;31 results for 'mircea abortion' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mircea+abortion
1434116;1458138298;*;adlai lets googlebot find it
1434117;1458138310;adlai;it's 4:20, i got blunts to burn and chat to spurn.
1434118;1458138320;mircea_popescu;adlai can't propose weird stances for mp to have taken in the past and then crap out on the documentation.
1434119;1458138350;adlai;well it was definitely after i joined the channel, if that limits the search space.
1434120;1458138367;mircea_popescu;nobody's going to do your work. you wanna talk to the adults, talk like the adults.
1434121;1458138403;adlai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2015#1106206
1434122;1458138403;assbot;Logged on 22-04-2015 01:52:22; mircea_popescu: the alternative is nothing. murder's not something to be explained.
1434123;1458138419;*;adlai attains enlightenment - "chix" are not subject to "murder"!
1434124;1458138425;adlai;thank you, buddha. you're next.
1434125;1458138428;mircea_popescu;you see the difference between to explain and to justify yes ?
1434126;1458138433;adlai;sure
1434127;1458138455;*;adlai wanders off in search of the buddha
1434128;1458138459;mircea_popescu;discretionary acts are that, discretionary. no explanation is available for the private sphere.
1434129;1458138495;mircea_popescu;but yes, that's the major problem of murder : a private act with major public effects. pretty major conundrum.
1434130;1458138633;*;adlai blows buddha-neck-dust off hands
1434131;1458138696;adlai;( for the heathens - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dan#Killing_the_Buddha )
1434132;1458138697;assbot;Kōan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1VckfYs )
1434133;1458138877;adlai;!t m s.mpoe
1434134;1458138877;assbot;[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042006 / 0.00042062 / 0.00042603 (374417 shares, 157.49 BTC), 7D: 0.00042006 / 0.00048142 / 0.00053073 (12408846 shares, 5,973.87 BTC), 30D: 0.00042006 / 0.00055086 / 0.00059897 (72958913 shares, 40,190.59 BTC)
1434135;1458139022;mircea_popescu;so i made the mistake of following the tardpedia link. therein,
1434136;1458139023;mircea_popescu;A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!"
1434137;1458139030;mircea_popescu;motherfucking hell these idiots already.
1434138;1458139069;mircea_popescu;i'm not sure there exists but i'm sure i don't know anything more offensive than the precious derpage in the eastern tradition.
1434139;1458139070;adlai;they were right about killing them! put them out of their fucking misery, can't you hear it in their "bushels of flax"
1434140;1458139109;adlai;btw: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-01-2016#1386701 << yes totally you have no idea. you should try it sometime!
1434141;1458139109;assbot;Logged on 27-01-2016 00:03:26; mircea_popescu: isn't lying fun.
1434142;1458139121;mircea_popescu;"if you meet a derpy teenager with whispy "beard" hair, onanistic odours wafting every which way who can'tstop prattlingabout his erotic exploits...
1434143;1458139125;mircea_popescu;whatever, kill him i guess."
1434144;1458139185;mircea_popescu;fucking bullshit, "what's the meaning of coincidence ?" "dunno dood, HE HAD TO FUCKING COME FROM SOMEWHERE" hurr durr.
1434145;1458139205;mircea_popescu;"gotta do something while waiting for buddha to decide christ's more fun and come back to save or someshit."
1434146;1458139221;mircea_popescu;"meanwhile this cock ain't gonna rub itself, so here we are".
1434147;1458139264;mircea_popescu;adlai you realise - google is even better at koans than at go.
1434148;1458139300;adlai;oh i know, i already ready https://medium.com/my-satsang/on-k%C5%8Dans-and-turing-machines-adeac0844dac#.z82tdhxaw
1434149;1458139302;assbot;On Kōans and Turing Machines — My Satsang — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/21vaiFa )
1434150;1458139436;trinque;https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*e-IrhTIQQ2-GaOdbDMYxGw.png << ahahahahaha check that out. model of consciousness even
1434151;1458139437;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21vay74 )
1434152;1458139576;mircea_popescu;trinque "but what is the meaning of the colors!" "the wild fox is dead"
1434153;1458139584;mircea_popescu;hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.
1434154;1458139680;mircea_popescu;in the same vein, mihai margineanu playing atm, just went "whenever you ask a question you don't expect answered ; why are you surprised when you get an answer you didn't expect".
1434155;1458139695;trinque;not bad
1434156;1458139930;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434153 << don't confuse with valhalla hall, with the valkyries. nirvana hall is just that 20 m^3 concrete cesspool from mircea_popescu's old article.
1434157;1458139930;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 14:46:24; mircea_popescu: hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.
1434158;1458139956;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform is coincidentally the pompous name of the place where the events discussed transpired.
1434159;1458139983;asciilifeform;urgh
1434160;1458139989;mircea_popescu;!up hybridsole
1434161;1458140060;asciilifeform;interestingly, no effect visible to naked eye from the city subway here being closed - seems as if usg took the day off..
1434162;1458140063;asciilifeform;so net ~0.
1434163;1458140210;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what, the assumption that alternatives exist died in practice yet again ?
1434164;1458140224;mircea_popescu;and silly me, to think that the guys in the subway are there by choice, and they could do something else.
1434165;1458140284;mircea_popescu;"no subway, no travel - i don't own a 1/100000 of the 100`000 spare car meta-pool, nor do i have anything to do that'd justify it."
1434166;1458140352;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: megalopolis dies without either a) subway or b) the folks who work there, living there
1434167;1458140355;asciilifeform;and we don't have (b) here
1434168;1458140387;mircea_popescu;so tell me, as a curio : what is the correct accounting for "city having subway" in the books of a donut shop at the corner of 85th and 10th ?
1434169;1458140388;asciilifeform;calculate how much of, e.g., nyc, you would have to level and convert to garage, and how much to level to convert to 32-lane streets, to have a (c) everyone drives
1434170;1458140406;mircea_popescu;because it clearly IS part of the books, right ? trivially enumerable, as it is. just not easy to evaluate.
1434171;1458140407;mircea_popescu;what do!
1434172;1458140421;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: well traditionally it is whatever the tax is, no ?
1434173;1458140424;mircea_popescu;or wait, you don't do number grid in dc, do you ?
1434174;1458140432;asciilifeform;there is a (primitive) grid.
1434175;1458140433;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ha-HA ? tax offers no guarantee.
1434176;1458140440;mircea_popescu;as you recall, police is not obliged to serve you.
1434177;1458140443;asciilifeform;no shit !
1434178;1458140452;mircea_popescu;so... how do you put the subway on the donut shop's books!
1434179;1458140460;mircea_popescu;this is no light matter.
1434180;1458140460;asciilifeform;the king actually doing his thing is a best-effort affair aha.
1434181;1458140485;asciilifeform;you can't put motherfucking collapse on the books.
1434182;1458140491;asciilifeform;because it costs +inf.
1434183;1458140496;mircea_popescu;awww!
1434184;1458140499;mircea_popescu;but but but...
1434185;1458140500;asciilifeform;(not even maxint - you could pay maxint, theoretically.)
1434186;1458140506;mircea_popescu;WHAT DO!
1434187;1458140515;asciilifeform;the old ww1 saw.
1434188;1458140525;asciilifeform;'whaddoido if a shell lands in my trench??'
1434189;1458140527;asciilifeform;answer:
1434190;1458140536;trinque;no everlasting life eh?
1434191;1458140537;asciilifeform;'jump up twenty metres and scatter yerself around a bit'
1434192;1458140540;trinque;lol
1434193;1458140542;mircea_popescu;wwwwwwellllll then.
1434194;1458140588;asciilifeform;there is no entry in the bookz for 'asteroid' either.
1434195;1458140604;mircea_popescu;in case this is not obvious, transparent parallel to our bitbet adventures.
1434196;1458140619;asciilifeform;no shit.
1434197;1458140631;mircea_popescu;hey, i dunno what posterity is like. maybe they're retarded.
1434198;1458140647;asciilifeform;this is more or less a safe assumption.
1434199;1458140688;mircea_popescu;i prefer to practice safe sex rather than safe assumptions.
1434200;1458140780;asciilifeform;l0l
1434201;1458140915;asciilifeform;the chicken story is lulzy
1434202;1458140949;asciilifeform;i imagine every boy broke something when 'made to share' at some point
1434203;1458140954;asciilifeform;but i never had a whole fucking chicken
1434204;1458140985;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is the clear winner in the moar-orc contest.
1434205;1458141033;asciilifeform;incidentally every time i open my idiot mouth and talk to colleagues, another one of my 'every boy must have...' assumptions drops like a fucking fly.
1434206;1458141077;asciilifeform;sometimes it is chronological,
1434207;1458141083;asciilifeform;e.g., i run into grown man who never saw msdos
1434208;1458141090;asciilifeform;sometimes - not.
1434209;1458141253;jurov;mircea_popescu: pls to mpex
1434210;1458141261;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434076 << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ??
1434211;1458141261;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 14:03:05; nubbins`: davout you have a 21.co?
1434212;1458141268;asciilifeform;why would anyone buy ? i still dun get it
1434213;1458141312;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434092 << i learned one way to achieve this 'wonder' - doublespends followed by normal spend
1434214;1458141312;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 14:19:29; trinque:     "" : -0.00020000
1434215;1458141333;asciilifeform;wallet (incl. trb) ~much~ dislikes doublespends
1434216;1458141341;asciilifeform;you end up with this barf.
1434217;1458141356;trinque;I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva.
1434218;1458141385;asciilifeform;trinque: neato!
1434219;1458141387;trinque;too much manual lever-pulling at the moment
1434220;1458141392;asciilifeform;trinque: what do you need to make this go ?
1434221;1458141447;asciilifeform;imho the mega-reasonable thing to do, and the thing i would be doing right now if not sitting on a stake possibly, is to abstract out the wallet idiocy
1434222;1458141450;davout;trinque: that -0.00020000 comes from the "accounts" mega-turd?
1434223;1458141458;trinque;davout: yes
1434224;1458141459;asciilifeform;which is to say, incorporate db calls into shiva
1434225;1458141468;asciilifeform;and go from that to tx-crafting
1434226;1458141474;asciilifeform;while staying in shiva.
1434227;1458141498;trinque;asciilifeform: right, I would at least need sendrawtxn (can make txn elsewhere) but it would also be nice to have createrawtxn and signrawtxn I suppose.
1434228;1458141502;trinque;I can do the latter two outside too
1434229;1458141518;asciilifeform;you need the blockchain for this.
1434230;1458141520;trinque;had my own external wallet db for btcd
1434231;1458141526;asciilifeform;(at least in practice)
1434232;1458141547;trinque;I was simply keeping a sqlite db of txns
1434233;1458141564;trinque;hypothetically I would like to simply be able to inquire the balance of any address at any time
1434234;1458141577;trinque;this seems heavy given the db structure used
1434235;1458141577;asciilifeform;this is O(N) trinque.
1434236;1458141581;trinque;yep.
1434237;1458141586;asciilifeform;intrinsically.
1434238;1458141627;davout;this "accounts" thing is such an abomination...
1434239;1458141719;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434210 <<< the rasperree-pee-that-can-also-mine-sort-of
1434240;1458141719;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 15:14:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434076 << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ??
1434241;1458141722;asciilifeform;the notion of the machine undertaking to solve the knapsack problem is ludicrous in itself.
1434242;1458141731;asciilifeform;and from it flow the other atrocities of the 'wallet'.
1434243;1458141746;asciilifeform;is everyone familiar with knapsack ?
1434244;1458141954;trinque;yep, you have finite volume and items of varying volume and value, want to pack the knapsack by optimal value
1434245;1458141981;*;trinque worked on warehouse software in ancient days
1434246;1458142032;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> but i never had a whole fucking chicken << seriously ?!
1434247;1458142047;mircea_popescu;my sister killed more than these by being a kid and accidentally stepping on their heads than i can recall.
1434248;1458142146;mircea_popescu;trinque> I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva. << bless your heart.
1434249;1458142190;mircea_popescu;davout> this "accounts" thing is such an abomination... << consensus on this since... 2011 ?
1434250;1458142236;mircea_popescu;trinque i recall me losing my top over this back in 2013ish or w/e the first time bitcoin-idiocy got in the way of bitbet, being told "oh wait, this is an actual problem - we don't resolve problems, we write code here at prb!"
1434251;1458142288;mircea_popescu;"Fix the motherfucking code before you have to be fired. To recap : a. If I want to make 1 Mb txs I make 1 Mb txs ; b. correct inputs are selected to feed the outputs as if a human or better was doing the selecting." << also march, as fate would have it.
1434252;1458142382;davout;pretty much
1434253;1458142537;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how exactly is the notion ludicrous in itself ?
1434254;1458142833;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: knapsack problem is this np-complete boojum for which you can, yes, have various crapsack approximations
1434255;1458142840;mircea_popescu;so then.
1434256;1458142854;asciilifeform;which is what we have in trb
1434257;1458142861;mircea_popescu;not at all.
1434258;1458142873;mircea_popescu;well... by some standard a brick is a computer, so sure.
1434259;1458142883;asciilifeform;the tx selector thing
1434260;1458142891;asciilifeform;for 'pay x btc to addr a'
1434261;1458142899;asciilifeform;machine solves 'from which unspent ins'
1434262;1458142899;mircea_popescu;~random
1434263;1458142904;asciilifeform;poorly.
1434264;1458142920;mircea_popescu;even historical order would acvtually beat trb on this.
1434265;1458142945;asciilifeform;the create-new-addr-every-time thing also guarantees fragging and pestilential multitudes of 'young' unspent coin
1434266;1458142960;asciilifeform;as if the knapsack thing were not enough
1434267;1458142971;mircea_popescu;both the "shittier than historical" and "new addr for change" bits are satoshi's dubious kludges to protect "anonimity"
1434268;1458142981;asciilifeform;let's pile up moar, moar!111 variably-valued items for the solver!1111
1434269;1458142982;mircea_popescu;except for a very poorly defined, mostly felt notion of "anonimity"
1434270;1458142987;asciilifeform;^^^
1434271;1458142993;asciilifeform;was the idiot justification aha.
1434272;1458143017;asciilifeform;enemy could not possibly spend extra few 100 cpu cycles!1111
1434273;1458143026;asciilifeform;to recalculate the origin.
1434274;1458143026;mircea_popescu;whitening.
1434275;1458143028;asciilifeform;aha.
1434276;1458143031;mircea_popescu;it is a really hard thing to pass.
1434277;1458143038;mircea_popescu;nanto or how do they call it.
1434278;1458143039;asciilifeform;exercise in electrically-assisted self delusion
1434279;1458143044;asciilifeform;like most kompyooooting claptrap.
1434280;1458143219;asciilifeform;but anyway, unlike the pow wars or whatever apocalyptic thunderclouds, the wallet ~could~ be fixed if anyone gave half a fuck
1434281;1458143233;asciilifeform;i kinda assumed formerly that mircea_popescu fixed it in his
1434282;1458143239;asciilifeform;(not with own hands, naturally, but whatever makes mpb)
1434283;1458143243;mircea_popescu;or, in the words of the ballas master, " Yet given the infinity of the internet you still surf the same 5 websites, looking for and finding exactly what you want, like a baby playing peekaboo in a mirror over and over and over and over and over and over and..."
1434284;1458143245;asciilifeform;was surprised to learn that this was not so
1434285;1458143255;trinque;fixed or removed and cauterized?
1434286;1458143260;asciilifeform;fixed fixed.
1434287;1458143264;asciilifeform;mircea_popesc-fixed
1434288;1458143267;trinque;I was doing just fine without a wallet using btcd
1434289;1458143273;mircea_popescu;you learned what how when ?
1434290;1458143274;trinque;and shitting my own txns in from elsewhere
1434291;1458143299;trinque;jumped onto trb intending to cause myself severe pain such that gears of progress and whatnot
1434292;1458143386;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: by implication, from various mircea_popescu gripes about tx-sending.
1434293;1458143405;asciilifeform;pretty much all i know about mpb comes from these !
1434294;1458143417;mircea_popescu;heh.
1434295;1458143441;mircea_popescu;"on the basis of the leaks coming from the invisible aircraft we have learned that it is a duck."
1434296;1458143468;trinque;does it float?
1434297;1458143474;mircea_popescu;only in air.
1434298;1458143475;asciilifeform;approx.
1434299;1458143480;trinque;close enough
1434300;1458143521;asciilifeform;when i see that birdshot works on it, i know it is prolly not a mig...
1434301;1458143648;mircea_popescu;amateur hunter returns empty handed from swamp. "nothing but migs out there good god what's the world coming to!"
1434302;1458143651;asciilifeform;from 'linux', lulz,
1434303;1458143653;asciilifeform;# /etc/localtime is a symlink with glibc > 2.15-41
1434304;1458143659;asciilifeform;^ how the FUCK is this any business of libc.
1434305;1458143680;mircea_popescu;recall the threads about ntp, political time etc ?
1434306;1458143682;mircea_popescu;like that.
1434307;1458143695;asciilifeform;uhah.
1434308;1458143978;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433702 << it is what there is.
1434309;1458143978;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 11:03:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433648 << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos.
1434310;1458143986;asciilifeform;i don't have another, functional os buried somewhere
1434311;1458143994;mircea_popescu;aha.
1434312;1458143997;asciilifeform;for me right now it is gentoo or unabomber cabin.
1434313;1458144000;hanbot;phf / anyone who mac-erizes or might mess with gpgtools, tell me menu option & any steps involved in exporting pubkey if you have a moment? i'm trying to put a eulora wiki guide together and these derps have like zero documentation.
1434314;1458144006;asciilifeform;'perelman-os'
1434315;1458144099;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fwiw the mask set i published here will build a depoetteringized (though not dedrepperized) gentoo, which will stay that way. but various more or less essential items, e.g., 'wireshark', will not build.
1434316;1458144128;mircea_popescu;i am aware.
1434317;1458144128;asciilifeform;there is a dedrepperized (experimental, musltronic) gentoo but it is VERY spartan
1434318;1458144131;asciilifeform;e.g., no emacs.
1434319;1458144134;asciilifeform;so not really os.
1434320;1458144145;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu ah so you tried it.
1434321;1458144161;asciilifeform;i did not think anyone gave a fuck.
1434322;1458144179;mircea_popescu;why not ?
1434323;1458144205;asciilifeform;because everybody here, afaik, already has some ruin he inhabits
1434324;1458144227;asciilifeform;but i have nfi.
1434325;1458144232;mircea_popescu;you think like the man of a single woman.
1434326;1458144248;asciilifeform;i speak like diogenes of a single barrel.
1434327;1458144260;mircea_popescu;!b 2
1434328;1458144261;assbot;Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0MWNF9W.txt )
1434329;1458144280;asciilifeform;though i have a few dozen mostly broken ones.
1434330;1458144291;mircea_popescu;everyone's a diogenes of a single candle.
1434331;1458144311;asciilifeform;and single turtle, aha.
1434332;1458144335;mircea_popescu;actually that's a great name for the temple for this here cult,
1434333;1458144344;mircea_popescu;Temple of the Diogenes of the Single Candle.
1434334;1458144393;mircea_popescu;teh dsc sounds like a pretty kickass patron deity, thinking about it.
1434335;1458144420;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00042006 = 27.997 BTC [-]
1434336;1458144473;asciilifeform;much of modern tech is really reducible to 'let's give diogenes 1000w projector, he will surely find honest man!111'
1434337;1458144487;mircea_popescu;hey, he wins at go.
1434338;1458144510;asciilifeform;speaking of which, how about them 1900 cores.
1434339;1458144518;mircea_popescu;what of it ?
1434340;1458144523;asciilifeform;(from, iirc, 1200, after the machine loss)
1434341;1458144559;asciilifeform;since when is this done.
1434342;1458144571;mircea_popescu;since forever ?
1434343;1458144576;mircea_popescu;or hwat ?
1434344;1458144583;asciilifeform;i distincly recall stipulation that all 5 games will be played against same thing ?
1434345;1458144586;asciilifeform;or did i dream this.
1434346;1458144592;mircea_popescu;heh.
1434347;1458144608;mircea_popescu;machine is not a thing in the sense here contemplated.
1434348;1458144638;asciilifeform;being rather the collective best effort of the king's horses and king's men ?
1434349;1458144642;mircea_popescu;the whole deal was something like "and lee sedol will now play the whole nation of china - elect a representative, or two, or whatever. the go competence of the entire han race is being judged"
1434350;1458144701;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433733 << i read it. marvelous tale. and - unsurprisingly - barfalicious hollywood film 50 yrs later.
1434351;1458144701;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 11:21:59; thestringpuller: you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)
1434352;1458144785;mircea_popescu;ahh this mango lassi.
1434353;1458144795;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433736 << in some circumstances ~maladaptive~
1434354;1458144795;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 11:27:35; mircea_popescu: intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".
1434355;1458144824;mircea_popescu;notrly.
1434356;1458144841;mircea_popescu;the adaptive behaviour is teh intelligence - the rest, will, if you will, or whatever.
1434357;1458144861;asciilifeform;what if test is 'be not as large as a mouse, there is nothing to eat but for cockroach'
1434358;1458144874;mircea_popescu;dumb mouse.
1434359;1458144890;asciilifeform;sometimes it is maladaptive to be larger than roach
1434360;1458144896;asciilifeform;where then, the intelligence.
1434361;1458144901;mircea_popescu;and if it is, it's also unintelligent.
1434362;1458144926;asciilifeform;in the end, the stone - who outlasts all - is most intelligent then.
1434363;1458144930;asciilifeform;brick lisp !
1434364;1458144943;mircea_popescu;notreally, as it doesn't adapt.
1434365;1458144945;asciilifeform;this is not imho a very interesting concept of intelligence.
1434366;1458144951;mircea_popescu;but it is more reliably notstupid than people, for sure.
1434367;1458144957;mircea_popescu;why haet.
1434368;1458144972;asciilifeform;l0l this was even in my brick article
1434369;1458144979;asciilifeform;english folks say 'stopped clock is right 2x a day'
1434370;1458144987;asciilifeform;beats a great many people aha.
1434371;1458144999;mircea_popescu;now why'd you strawman the "adaptive behaviour" ? what the fuck do you care what the outcome is.
1434372;1458145038;asciilifeform;i merely happen to live there.
1434373;1458145059;asciilifeform;so not entirely indifferent to whether surrounded by cockroach
1434374;1458145081;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu lives on mt olympus with the other godz and naturally gives not a fuck
1434375;1458145089;mircea_popescu;that you don't like the outcome is not cause to alter the definitions lol.
1434376;1458145314;asciilifeform;evolutionary process is mega-adaptable but is not in any useful sense intelligent
1434377;1458145322;mircea_popescu;behaviour!
1434378;1458145323;asciilifeform;because cannot plan or 'think outside local maxima'.
1434379;1458145326;mircea_popescu;process is not behaviour.
1434380;1458145341;asciilifeform;'be born a cockroach' is not behaviour of anything but evolutionary process
1434381;1458145350;mircea_popescu;so ?
1434382;1458145375;mircea_popescu;i am sorry strawman doth not make much sense and commiserate !
1434383;1458145521;asciilifeform;i commiserate that mircea_popescu thinks the 'idiot god' of hill-climbing optimizer is 'intelligence'
1434384;1458145529;mircea_popescu;not what i said.
1434385;1458145558;mircea_popescu;the root of the problem would seem to be the self-serving but otherwise bluntly unwarranted assumption that "intelligence is useful in all circumstances".
1434386;1458145560;mircea_popescu;this is not so.
1434387;1458145576;asciilifeform;pretty much what i said, no ?
1434388;1458145581;mircea_popescu;no. you said maladaptive.
1434389;1458145588;mircea_popescu;that presumes you act on it.
1434390;1458145609;asciilifeform;take the famous sea cucumber.
1434391;1458145613;mircea_popescu;aite.
1434392;1458145647;asciilifeform;'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task, it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore, so it eats it! It's rather like getting tenure.'
1434393;1458145694;mircea_popescu;must not be the same animal, sea cucumber i think of is an echinoderm.
1434394;1458145717;mircea_popescu;it moves.
1434395;1458145777;mircea_popescu;(actually it's the jumping champion, some 1km jumps)
1434396;1458145855;asciilifeform;ah right
1434397;1458145893;mircea_popescu;but anyway, so animal that stops locomoting gives up brain cells used for handling that.
1434398;1458145909;mircea_popescu;recall pigeon experiments ? brain is plastic, takes over function of lost partys
1434399;1458145917;mircea_popescu;at the expense of other processes, of course. so what of it ?
1434400;1458145919;asciilifeform;aha.
1434401;1458145963;asciilifeform;this is adaptive.
1434402;1458145987;asciilifeform;and the beast can't exactly grow a new brain if environment changes and it could take the chance of moving to a new rock.
1434403;1458146042;mircea_popescu;so because enthalpy, you propose no commerce is possible.
1434404;1458146068;asciilifeform;not in closed system !
1434405;1458146090;mircea_popescu;non-closedness of a system is an accounting fiction.
1434406;1458146136;asciilifeform;and this is where we find out that mircea_popescu stands outside heat death.
1434407;1458146177;mircea_popescu;why ?
1434408;1458146296;asciilifeform;largely since i never get the sense he is discussing a place where he ~lives~
1434409;1458146302;asciilifeform;vs some distant zoo
1434410;1458146310;mircea_popescu;also duck ?
1434411;1458146314;asciilifeform;prolly goes with the job.
1434412;1458146452;asciilifeform;i can see it already: harem gurl: 'i stepped on rusty nail!' mircea_popescu: 'here's an impregnation, perhaps after 20 generations your descendants will have shell armour on their feet'
1434413;1458146481;asciilifeform;'meanwhile have a rusty knife'
1434414;1458146490;mircea_popescu;did i ever recall the story of the slavegirl that had never seen railroad tracks ?
1434415;1458146500;asciilifeform;nope
1434416;1458146503;trinque;"here's an impregnation" << lolol
1434417;1458146527;mircea_popescu;so we go to cross some tracks and i say "careful not to touch the shiny parts!" and she carefully steps to not touch the shiny parts.
1434418;1458146529;asciilifeform;who the fuck has not seen railroad ? blind gurl ?
1434419;1458146540;asciilifeform;wat?!
1434420;1458146545;mircea_popescu;later finding herself at a good time for such, inquires why parts were shiny ?
1434421;1458146554;mircea_popescu;"because trains go on them, polish them"
1434422;1458146559;mircea_popescu;"so then why not step on them ?!"
1434423;1458146562;mircea_popescu;"no reason."
1434424;1458146572;mircea_popescu;"i thought it was something with electrictiy!!1"
1434425;1458146585;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not all people come from europe you know.
1434426;1458146595;mircea_popescu;who else has rail ? new england ?
1434427;1458146616;trinque;portland wants to be yurp bad enough to have put some in
1434428;1458146621;mircea_popescu;aokthen!
1434429;1458146624;asciilifeform;there are rails here!
1434430;1458146627;trinque;couple of hipster chicks get flattened by it per year
1434431;1458146638;mircea_popescu;trinque funny, was same in india!
1434432;1458146645;asciilifeform;every day 1000 tonnes of coal went past my old flat
1434433;1458146651;asciilifeform;and there were a few splats also.
1434434;1458146677;mircea_popescu;anyway, i wonder why asciilifeform is so convinced that one may only see the truth of things that don't affect them personally.
1434435;1458146698;asciilifeform;prolly because 20 pack a day mathematics habit
1434436;1458146700;mircea_popescu;what is this. mayhap the explanation isn't that mp lives in a heat-death immune dirigible (upgraded from atomic) but simply... does not care ?
1434437;1458146768;asciilifeform;i am reminded of dan mocsny's 'whichever one of us leaves usenet first is the Real Man' mega-flame
1434438;1458146777;asciilifeform;(moscny - won.)
1434439;1458146793;mircea_popescu;how ?
1434440;1458146799;asciilifeform;he left.
1434441;1458146804;mircea_popescu;no, how are you reminded
1434442;1458146814;asciilifeform;ah the not-caring olympics l0l
1434443;1458146851;mircea_popescu;but look at the jump : 1) unexplained item can be explained by a or b ; 2) it's a b-olympics!
1434444;1458146857;mircea_popescu;what goes from 1 to 2 ?
1434445;1458146868;asciilifeform;side thread
1434446;1458146903;mircea_popescu;the jump is the mechanism at issue here nevertheless.
1434447;1458146942;asciilifeform;well, to re-connect the frags, i take issue with everett's device as problem solving tool, because if you admit it, none of the other things we do make any sense
1434448;1458146951;mircea_popescu;these are as far as i've seen the two mindbugs of the republic : a) A -> B therefore B-> A, ie backflow ; and b) the above.
1434449;1458146954;asciilifeform;why not just fellate our pistols every morning while enemy is still alive ?
1434450;1458146964;mircea_popescu;there is no capacity of sense in phenomenology.
1434451;1458146972;mircea_popescu;nothing "makes sense" in the sense you want it to.
1434452;1458146998;mircea_popescu;ethics (ie, the mechanism to answer "what should i do") is a very severely limited science.
1434453;1458147009;asciilifeform;so why is mircea_popescu eating cake and not rusty nails ?
1434454;1458147019;mircea_popescu;will. not intelligence.
1434455;1458147028;asciilifeform;and contemplating trbtronics, rather than praying to vishnu ?
1434456;1458147038;mircea_popescu;because i can.
1434457;1458147059;asciilifeform;but can also these other things.
1434458;1458147070;mircea_popescu;why did the man get out of bed ? he could stay in bed, regress to childhood and whatever, paint posters to show mommy.
1434459;1458147079;mircea_popescu;yes, i can also these other things.
1434460;1458147081;*;asciilifeform swaps gas mask cartridge
1434461;1458147145;trinque;why did the shark swim when it could stop?
1434462;1458147159;mircea_popescu;(ever wondered, btw, why some men favour ugly, unattractive women ? the freudian explanation is exactly above - they seek to reunite with mother, in which case sexual appeal is a hindrance not an asset.)
1434463;1458147168;mircea_popescu;trinque shark swims to breathe tho.
1434464;1458147174;trinque;right, I know
1434465;1458147193;asciilifeform;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << lulzy wankage in commentz
1434466;1458147194;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 16 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )
1434467;1458147199;trinque;"why does it feel good to will things into being?"
1434468;1458147205;asciilifeform;was this dear old nubs?
1434469;1458147210;mircea_popescu;who ?
1434470;1458147219;asciilifeform;bbet anons raging
1434471;1458147219;trinque;ask the dumb hill-climbing optimizer?
1434472;1458147238;mircea_popescu;i dunno.
1434473;1458147274;mircea_popescu;trinque possibly the least offensive koan of the lot is the one with "why did i rescue the scorpion ? it is my nature!"
1434474;1458147286;mircea_popescu;rarely was i so happy to hear of a monk's demise.
1434475;1458147328;asciilifeform;there are many fables where a scorpion kills a man, but is this actually possible ?
1434476;1458147342;mircea_popescu;i think some but not most are venomous enough.
1434477;1458147342;asciilifeform;(short of allergic shock)
1434478;1458147349;mircea_popescu;of course - a bee can kill a man, if it's the right bee and the right man.
1434479;1458147353;mircea_popescu;aha.
1434480;1458147355;trinque;http://transform.to/~dragondm/lit/koans << heh not bad
1434481;1458147356;assbot;404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1pukQsF )
1434482;1458147358;trinque;penultimate
1434483;1458147464;mircea_popescu;bad restating. they took out the dying part - very indicative of the cocksucker sort they are.
1434484;1458147594;asciilifeform;who's they
1434485;1458147609;asciilifeform;translator?
1434486;1458147613;mircea_popescu;they is teh community.
1434487;1458147627;mircea_popescu;mno. the numerous lee sedols of that pointless boardgame.
1434488;1458147787;asciilifeform;speaking of
1434489;1458147793;asciilifeform;i'm kinda surprised the whiners aren't here yet
1434490;1458147803;asciilifeform;(re bbet)
1434491;1458147806;mircea_popescu;bar too high ?
1434492;1458147850;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>was this dear old nubs? << nope, i have more pressing concerns than anonymously trolling bitbet comments
1434493;1458147894;nubbins`;also, shipping dept managed to get crate delivered for half of what i quoted you, so plz PM signed refund address at your convenience
1434494;1458148134;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i will ! ty
1434495;1458148141;asciilifeform;nubbins`: soon as i get home.
1434496;1458148163;nubbins`;i'd considered sending you a mystery prize but figured that'd be a bit too fast & loose
1434497;1458148181;asciilifeform;l0l
1434498;1458148202;asciilifeform;i actually considered buying some b00kz from nubbins`
1434499;1458148207;asciilifeform;but now i am too p00r.
1434500;1458148232;asciilifeform;ftr i enjoyed the photos from 'whale & other disorders.'
1434501;1458148287;nubbins`;tyvm!
1434502;1458148318;nubbins`;most of the contributors attempted to refuse some of their payment
1434503;1458148332;nubbins`;"this is too much, i'm not joking"
1434504;1458148381;nubbins`;in terms of retail value, we handed out $10k worth of books to contributing artists
1434505;1458148391;nubbins`;i was a bit :0 when i did the math
1434506;1458148485;asciilifeform;nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr
1434507;1458150524;trinque;mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself?
1434508;1458150661;*;trinque gets a vpatch
1434509;1458151716;asciilifeform;http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-wrong-kind-of-victory.html?m=1 << orl0l
1434510;1458151717;assbot;ClubOrlov: The wrong kind of victory ... ( http://bit.ly/22mIx3T )
1434511;1458151795;asciilifeform;where he discovers turkeydollarz...
1434512;1458152876;trinque;http://dpaste.com/0YKDMWF << miserablol
1434513;1458152877;assbot;dpaste: 0YKDMWF ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgeARG )
1434514;1458153002;*;trinque will put his awk shitwaders on later
1434515;1458153260;trinque;anyhow, looks like polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch needs rebasing
1434516;1458153473;trinque;http://dpaste.com/34Y62T4.txt << these press
1434517;1458153475;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3zduP )
1434518;1458153697;trinque;http://dpaste.com/179T4JC.txt << bad press with polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch
1434519;1458153698;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3zL3M )
1434520;1458154166;trinque;wb funkenstein_
1434521;1458154184;funkenstein_;greetings trinque :)
1434522;1458154231;funkenstein_;i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment
1434523;1458154257;funkenstein_;copper lark was first i saw to use it
1434524;1458154906;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: keccak-with-hash-over-arbitrary-blocks-pulled-from-chain
1434525;1458154916;asciilifeform;('proof of storage')
1434526;1458154919;asciilifeform;as per mircea_popescu's article
1434527;1458155039;funkenstein_;which part of that article is worth discussing?
1434528;1458155064;funkenstein_;its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought
1434529;1458155123;phf;trinque: yeah, polarbeard_better_log_messages depends on a conflicting patchset
1434530;1458155200;phf;trinque: specifically, http://btcbase.org/hash/02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3
1434531;1458155200;assbot;patches for hash 02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UA4udk )
1434532;1458155232;phf;depends on deprecated asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum's version of main.cpp
1434533;1458155304;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: which problems ?
1434534;1458155305;phf;and this one too http://btcbase.org/hash/BB842420BCC67752EDF8E658524B135F499C5F8676557A6C12F47F204303E34BD73BEABDF6E9146BA452947C4E5CD298529969FAB90F16942F6BF0C1229F7043, asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring which is also deprecated
1434535;1458155328;funkenstein_;see jurov's comment
1434536;1458155329;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: i mean, ~other~ than it being a hardphork
1434537;1458155338;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: link plox ?
1434538;1458155383;phf;trinque: i say, press to polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file, then patch -p1 < polarbeard_better_log_messages, then vpatch the result, then do same for polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc. that's sort of easiest, fastest way to regrind
1434539;1458155431;funkenstein_;http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116397
1434540;1458155433;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UEI3BP )
1434541;1458155475;BingoBoingo;;;later tell shinohai pls to submit it
1434542;1458155476;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1434543;1458155548;shinohai;Here it is BingoBoingo but ill have to resubmit, stoopid Obama went and named someone else to scotus. http://dpaste.com/3164N6J.txt
1434544;1458155551;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UA5xtD )
1434545;1458155572;BingoBoingo;pls do that then
1434546;1458156601;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1183 << i had nfi this existed. a whole own poetteringism, hilarious, touches ~all binaries on affected pseudolinuxen, ruins aslr and number of other things, random (!) crashes, ardent defenders (ahaha), etc.
1434547;1458156604;assbot;#1183 (Don't enable prelink by default in Fedora)     – FESCo ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3GSt1 )
1434548;1458156604;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1434549;1458156762;mircea_popescu;uh.
1434550;1458157053;asciilifeform;the comments are mindblowing.
1434551;1458157322;asciilifeform;http://lwn.net/Articles/341244 << drepperism!
1434552;1458157324;assbot;Is pre-linking worth it? [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3Iv9X )
1434553;1458157401;asciilifeform;^ worth reading for the commentz
1434554;1458157470;mircea_popescu;what is pre-linking ?
1434555;1458157494;*;mircea_popescu discovers that he can't rightly say what fedora even is. is it what, a distro ? some sort of centos ?
1434556;1458157495;mircea_popescu;what ?
1434557;1458157526;jurov;fedora is opensource kitchen for redhat
1434558;1458157544;mircea_popescu;ah right.
1434559;1458157575;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there is no legit thing called prelinking
1434560;1458157586;asciilifeform;it is a poetteringization of the ordinary glibc execution process
1434561;1458157595;jurov;and prelinking is writing directly to the binaries/ dynamic libs what virtual memory address are they going and which addresses can all the other depending libraries found at
1434562;1458157603;asciilifeform;where the items, having been linked dynamically, are pseudo-staticized periodically (!) by a cron job
1434563;1458157606;asciilifeform;badly.
1434564;1458157606;mircea_popescu;my meagre understanding of computing doesn't allow me to discern the intended meaning.
1434565;1458157615;mircea_popescu;"pre fuck" i can imagine what'd be. pre linking... no.
1434566;1458157622;mircea_popescu;uh
1434567;1458157636;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is a highly bizarre idiot hack nominally to 'save cycles' but really 'because ftmeade asked'
1434568;1458157643;mircea_popescu;but what does it do ?
1434569;1458157644;asciilifeform;and this being unusually transparent, in a cartoon way
1434570;1458157676;jurov;basically it's like "printf has address 0x000002254fe5450"
1434571;1458157693;jurov;and every binary that calls it gets written this addy in it
1434572;1458157707;asciilifeform;sometimes hoses entire box, see epic http://lwn.net/Articles/340121
1434573;1458157709;assbot;Why people don't test development distributions [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1UAbLd8 )
1434574;1458157709;mircea_popescu;what
1434575;1458157727;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is sorta like a cache for dynamic linking
1434576;1458157731;asciilifeform;or claims to be.
1434577;1458157745;mircea_popescu;i see.
1434578;1458157757;asciilifeform;today it exists at all only in the most direly diseased pseudolinuxen
1434579;1458157781;mircea_popescu;so what it this supposed to achieve for the putative enemy, make proper allocation impossible or what ?
1434580;1458157803;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it gives excuse to munge every single executable on the box
1434581;1458157808;asciilifeform;also demolishes aslr
1434582;1458157824;asciilifeform;and creates a number of other interesting difficulties
1434583;1458157826;mircea_popescu;ah right because stuff like hashes no longer mean anything\
1434584;1458157834;mircea_popescu;so what is this, excel-polymorphism ?
1434585;1458157854;jurov;it's supposed to avoid determining where the actual printf is located every time you run some program, which can be solved byt other and better means
1434586;1458157860;asciilifeform;discussing an item like this is almost like anatomizing a teratoma
1434587;1458157864;asciilifeform;as if it were an actual animal
1434588;1458157875;asciilifeform;it is quite far from whatever actual purpose it was conceived for.
1434589;1458157923;mircea_popescu;hey, anatomizing teratoma is exactly how noobs learn cytopathology etc.
1434590;1458157941;asciilifeform;aha!
1434591;1458157949;asciilifeform;hence why i put it on the dissection table here.
1434592;1458157987;mircea_popescu;why the cron job
1434593;1458157994;mircea_popescu;shouldn't this run at the beginning every time ?
1434594;1458158006;asciilifeform;it does.
1434595;1458158011;asciilifeform;and then again, and again...
1434596;1458158016;asciilifeform;WHAT IF YOU HAVE NEW BINARY!111111
1434597;1458158026;mircea_popescu;then let me run it first ?
1434598;1458158028;asciilifeform;that must be victi^H^H^Hoptimized
1434599;1458158037;mircea_popescu;Hoptimized lol
1434600;1458158050;asciilifeform;hopetimized.
1434601;1458158054;asciilifeform;changimized.
1434602;1458158103;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform inasmuch as he steal speaks of "its money", orlov doesn't actually get the turkey dollars thing. he earnestly thinks that there is ONE kind of usdollar, and PART of that one is "wasted". whereas the situation in the field is that there's two kinds, ands the bezzle part can only be bezzled with.
1434603;1458158106;mircea_popescu;but anyway.
1434604;1458158115;asciilifeform;anyway prelink was supposed to solve problem of 'why linux box takes multiple minutes to boot'
1434605;1458158125;asciilifeform;via plugging wrong end of funnel, naturally
1434606;1458158125;mircea_popescu;who the fuck boots them
1434607;1458158139;asciilifeform;no one (tm) would ever, say, remove the idiot sea of crud
1434608;1458158141;mircea_popescu;i still don't get this. all this derpage from the early days of systemd "it makes servers boot faster"
1434609;1458158142;mircea_popescu;dude...
1434610;1458158143;asciilifeform;that takes up the boot time
1434611;1458158151;asciilifeform;not servers.
1434612;1458158160;mircea_popescu;this was an actual argument illo tempore.
1434613;1458158170;mircea_popescu;but anyway, who reboots linux.
1434614;1458158175;asciilifeform;laptop folk
1434615;1458158181;asciilifeform;they have no working sleep mode, recall.
1434616;1458158182;mircea_popescu;if a box goes down trying to figure wtf takes 10x to 100x longer than it takes t oboot
1434617;1458158183;asciilifeform;typically.
1434618;1458158189;mircea_popescu;fuck laptop folk.
1434619;1458158215;asciilifeform;they're pre-fucked, the notion was to slightly unfuck'em
1434620;1458158224;mircea_popescu;no. stop interfering with god's will.
1434621;1458158229;mircea_popescu;they deserve to suffer for their portasins.
1434622;1458158230;asciilifeform;(it was 100% fraudulent, as you might expect)
1434623;1458158327;mircea_popescu;"� It spends it on a bunch of aircraft carrier groups. These are very useful for launching attacks on defenseless countries. But it is very important to keep these aircraft carriers outside of conflict zones that may involve China or Russia, or even Iran, because each of these countries has several cost-effective ways to destroy an aircraft carrier: ballistic missiles, supersonic cruise missiles and supersonic torped
1434624;1458158327;mircea_popescu;oes. The entire aircraft carrier fleet is obsolete, and is another huge waste of money." <<< aaaaactually... romania has the capacity to sink us carriers. so does israel. so does brazil
1434625;1458158336;mircea_popescu;so does half the fucking world already. it's not 1990 anymoar.
1434626;1458158407;nubbins`;funkenstein_ merciless mercantile morals!
1434627;1458158455;mircea_popescu;lol re aegis-khibiny thing tho. funny how that's not at all discussed in english huh.
1434628;1458158459;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr << 10-4
1434629;1458158534;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: pretty sure everybody knows about the surface torpedo etc
1434630;1458158552;mircea_popescu;prolly the russians just elbowed the something or other.
1434631;1458158557;asciilifeform;it officially Unexists for the purpose of the comical 'war games' the pentagon conducts.
1434632;1458158652;mircea_popescu;and of fucking course the army of dead empire is the nest of corruption. wtf. jannissary corps v2.0
1434633;1458158663;mircea_popescu;i forgot what the chinese thing was called, but anyway.
1434634;1458158699;asciilifeform;one look at the boats and it is pretty obvious that their purpose is ~not~ to fight in battles
1434635;1458158709;asciilifeform;but to move inventory
1434636;1458158743;asciilifeform;logic being, if it burns down and takes 30 f-whateverthefuck planes to the bottom of the sea, so much the better! buy moar!
1434637;1458158806;asciilifeform;;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ?
1434638;1458158806;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1434639;1458158966;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434522 << how much is it ?
1434640;1458158966;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 18:50:31; funkenstein_: i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment
1434641;1458159016;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434528 << you thought wrong. a bunch of nobodies declared idiocies about things in their head, generally on reddit/medium/wherever they gather.
1434642;1458159016;assbot;Logged on 16-03-2016 19:04:24; funkenstein_: its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought
1434643;1458159313;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> ;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ? << WHAT?!?
1434644;1458159356;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-take-third-brother-into-custody-in-shooting-of-police-officer/2016/03/14/74b97f36-e9e6-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html
1434645;1458159356;assbot;Brothers filmed attack on police station that left officer dead, authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1PctO2i )
1434646;1458159360;asciilifeform;etc
1434647;1458159379;asciilifeform;schmuck walks into police station, spins round and round For Piglet
1434648;1458159401;asciilifeform;cops then open up, killing at least one among selves
1434649;1458159416;asciilifeform;shooter's brothers film whole thing.
1434650;1458159513;BingoBoingo;Interesting mortadella there, will qntra unless you direly want to do it
1434651;1458159525;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: as usual, take it
1434652;1458159528;asciilifeform;i have nothing.
1434653;1458159564;BingoBoingo;Ok, I just suggest it because I know few things as refreshing for the mind as digging into an especially lulzy incident for qntra.
1434654;1458159591;asciilifeform;i would do 10,001 things if had time but i do not,sadly.
1434655;1458159598;asciilifeform;(things incl this)
1434656;1458160454;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/02258P0.txt << deturdified that article for you
1434657;1458160629;asciilifeform;neato
1434658;1458160776;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so wait, an hero killed no-one, police did all the murderin' ?
1434659;1458160823;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: I also found this on LTM within neural nets: http://colah.github.io/posts/2015-08-Understanding-LSTMs/ << It looks as if LTM is possible but pretty complex (gates within the NN itself)
1434660;1458160864;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Any idea where the video is? I can't seem to find it on "World Star Hiphop"
1434661;1458160873;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nfi
1434662;1458160909;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: correct
1434663;1458161160;deedbot-;[Qntra] Aspiring 'An Hero' Survives Police Station Assault - http://qntra.net/2016/03/aspiring-an-hero-survives-police-station-assault/
1434664;1458161166;mircea_popescu;lol
1434665;1458161201;BingoBoingo;Just to be pedantic 'An Hero' is the technical term for anyone acting with intent to off themselves
1434666;1458161226;BingoBoingo;In this sense Ford was a failure
1434667;1458161240;mircea_popescu;aha.
1434668;1458161272;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile Lavoy Finicum was a hero because he was fighting the powah
1434669;1458161287;BingoBoingo;;;google an hero
1434670;1458161288;gribble;An Hero | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/an-hero>; Urban Dictionary: an hero: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=an+hero>; An hero - Encyclopedia Dramatica: <https://encyclopediadramatica.se/An_hero>
1434671;1458161489;nubbins`;maybe he an hero'd by pretending to reach for a weapon
1434672;1458161495;nubbins`;i think this is called "an hero by cop"
1434673;1458161528;BingoBoingo;By running the initial blockade Finicum was clearly excercising his duty to evade in an effort to continue the fight later
1434674;1458161566;BingoBoingo;Also the FBI did squeeze of a couple shots before his hands went anywhere near his waistband
1434675;1458161835;mircea_popescu;;;bc,stats
1434676;1458161838;gribble;Current Blocks: 402984 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 215 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1434677;1458161897;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1434678;1458161898;gribble;1218294335.6
1434679;1458161972;mircea_popescu;jurov done.
1434680;1458161985;jurov;ty!
1434681;1458162166;deedbot-;[Qntra] America Rejected By All But Its Worst - http://qntra.net/2016/03/america-rejected-by-all-but-its-worst/
1434682;1458162404;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: where do i get the correct lsd to digest that article.
1434683;1458162438;funkenstein_;BingoBoingo, you saw the footage from inside the Lavoy Finicum mobile?
1434684;1458163029;BingoBoingo;funkenstein_: decline to comment
1434685;1458163037;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Which?
1434686;1458163152;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: If you are talking Kasich the correct lsd is the one that extracts lulz from setting the man up to fail.
1434687;1458163239;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: life - or what passes for life - in usaschwitz - happens on the coasts.
1434688;1458163259;BingoBoingo;I don't know anything of these coasts.
1434689;1458163291;BingoBoingo;The Bahamas gang's reign is ending and the electoral progress is a mess in an effort to rig the contest in Clitler's favor. Qntra however has to prepare for lulztingencies. Among these is a contested convention.
1434690;1458163383;BingoBoingo;Seriously though I know nothing of Coastal life in USia
1434691;1458163531;BingoBoingo;I know places where actual food happens seasonally and mass food is recycled in the fields though the Corn Cycle. I rightly can't believe the Coast or Death phenomenon as anything other than a form of Stockholm syndrome.
1434692;1458163551;shinohai;join #verge
1434693;1458163568;shinohai;shit
1434694;1458164394;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1434695;1458164401;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.37, vol: 4238.65955648 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.825, vol: 5827.13841 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.17, vol: 6827.4166771 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.962284, vol: 23502.07510000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.335, vol: 1466.60524061 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 424.402224, vol: 61.35244944 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.104775095
1434696;1458164402;BingoBoingo;;;more
1434697;1458164402;gribble;Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more.  To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
1434698;1458165084;asciilifeform;http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/20030701/nth-country.pdf << historic lulz (unrelated.)
1434699;1458165088;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4POAE )
1434700;1458165093;asciilifeform;(warning: massive scan)
1434701;1458168925;BingoBoingo;http://phys.org/news/2016-03-storks-winter-migration-favor-junk.html
1434702;1458168926;assbot;Storks give up on winter migration in favor of junk food ... ( http://bit.ly/2552Jtv )
1434703;1458169411;mats;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p72KRQwYeMo
1434704;1458169412;assbot;Failed Attack Of Russian Terrorists On Ukrainian Armed Forces. (English subtitles) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/2553tyF )
1434705;1458169447;BingoBoingo;In other news Orange Clinton is threatening riots if the RNC convention denies him the nomination
1434706;1458169922;mircea_popescu;that's a new one.
1434707;1458169971;mircea_popescu;who the fuck is supposed to have made that youtube video ?
1434708;1458170024;mircea_popescu;"directly to that bush" ? srsly ?
1434709;1458170145;mircea_popescu;nobody can be this inept. "armed forces" ? ffs.
1434710;1458170589;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00042004 = 8.9679 BTC [-] {2} 
1434711;1458171276;mats;amateur hour
1434712;1458171696;mod6;o/
1434713;1458171779;mod6;<+trinque> mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? << hey, uumm... so yeah, i think it does tell you which one barfed on press.  did you use (v | verbose) in there?  or have a dpaste of what it did?
1434714;1458171875;mod6;also: /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string << i think you can resolve this locally by installing gawk
1434715;1458171915;mod6;anyway, I see you patch, thanks for posting.  when I get around to making another version of V, i'll throw that in there.
1434716;1458171922;mod6;s/you/your/
1434717;1458171994;trinque;k, ty
1434718;1458172075;mod6;mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque phf, et. al., I've been mulling it over while i've been following the logs for some days now about what seems like a good fork to have in our possession: at this point, im inclined to think implementation of Mr. P.'s outlined ideas are the best choice, currently.
1434719;1458172181;mod6;However, my main objective is still to finish up the v054 release before diving into any of that quite yet.  It's my fault, I havent done jack-shit all month basically.  I've been meaning to work with trinque and get these makefiles battle-ready, but have had a number of meatspace things get in the way.
1434720;1458172477;mircea_popescu;eh no matter of fault mod6
1434721;1458172496;mircea_popescu;the thing is, the more features the putative fork has, the better, i suppose.
1434722;1458172506;mircea_popescu;except by features i don't mean "features". obviously.
1434723;1458172517;mod6;hehe, ofc.
1434724;1458172525;mircea_popescu;healing the relay-miner divide, if in fact the thing on trilema does it, would be a great one.
1434725;1458172532;mircea_popescu;but possibly there's other easy fruit to pick
1434726;1458172556;mircea_popescu;too bad i constantly strangle the easy fruit pickers. if only they fucking picked in THAT direction ffs.
1434727;1458172569;jurov;mod6: Mr P.'s outlined ideas would benefit from deeper adversarial analysis, maybe it comes out it's possible only 1000 times slower using rainbow tables or other techniques I proposed in the comments
1434728;1458172579;mircea_popescu;jurov quite so.
1434729;1458172592;mircea_popescu;dja understand the amended form we came to well ?
1434730;1458172597;mod6;jurov: ah, very much so.
1434731;1458172602;mircea_popescu;maybe it'd benefit from a going over once more.
1434732;1458172640;jurov;yes pls
1434733;1458172659;mod6;i like what i've read, more analysis and discussion of implementation decisions are required for sure.  i think we'll get there as this thread continues over the next 45 days.
1434734;1458172685;mircea_popescu;ok. so currently, for every block being mined : a header is calculated ; to this a nonce is added, the combine hashed. the resultant hash has to be smaller than a number to qualify as a found block.
1434735;1458172686;mircea_popescu;word ?
1434736;1458172698;jurov;yes
1434737;1458172705;mod6;ya.
1434738;1458172736;mircea_popescu;in the proposed model : a header is calculated, same way. to this, anonce is added, the combine hashed. this is hash 1. a digest is calculated, on the basis of past blocks. to this, the SAME nonce is added. the combine hashed. this is hash 2
1434739;1458172745;mircea_popescu;BOTH hash 1 and hash 2 have to be under a number to qualify as a found block.
1434740;1458172806;mod6;ok and this goes back to the discussion this am right? re: sha(header+nonce) AND sha(digest+nonce) ?  or did i read that wrong?
1434741;1458172825;jurov;how is the digest from past blocks done?
1434742;1458172835;mircea_popescu;it does. i specifically left the "hashing" undefined. it can be defined so both use sha3. or first stays as is and 2nd sha3. etc.
1434743;1458172839;mircea_popescu;this is a twistable knob.
1434744;1458172849;mircea_popescu;jurov the digest from past blocks is done like so :
1434745;1458172905;mircea_popescu;out of every Nth preceding block, the nonce-th byte is put in a string ; the combine hashed.
1434746;1458172917;mircea_popescu;N is another twistable knob. can be 1, can be whatever.
1434747;1458172945;mircea_popescu;see footnote 2, example :  http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#footnote_1_64828
1434748;1458172946;assbot;The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S52R51 )
1434749;1458172976;mod6;ah right.
1434750;1458172995;mircea_popescu;and yet another twistable knob exists : the nonce may be shifted before taking the nonceth element.
1434751;1458173029;mod6;it's too bad we're so time constrained on this, it'd be nice to see a poc of both : with shifting and without.
1434752;1458173054;mircea_popescu;knob 1 above decides whether to obsolete current miners entirely or just partially, and is a [true] soft vs hard fork ; knob 2 decides how much i/o pressure to put on relay nodes ; knob 3 decides how much relay work to require in the mix.
1434753;1458173058;mod6;well, i guess one could just add in the shifting and then make it a toggleable things.
1434754;1458173064;mod6;-s
1434755;1458173106;mircea_popescu;mod6 it's not entirely impossible to make the shifting a function of difficulty differential (note that there isn't a rule BOTH hashes have to be under THE SAME number. if there's two numbers, you could have an equalizer algo that does the shift moving)
1434756;1458173114;mircea_popescu;but, obviously - the more moving parts, the more problems.
1434757;1458173122;jurov;well then my comment still applies - miner can keep the nonce constant and churn hash1 by changing one transaction in a cycle
1434758;1458173164;mircea_popescu;jurov how ? his hash2 won't change.
1434759;1458173238;jurov;ah that
1434760;1458173248;mircea_popescu;my modeling shows it'd be way the fuck cheaper to calculate nonce blocks than to try and churn merkel trees
1434761;1458173260;mircea_popescu;now, your observation is correct in that this possibility puts a hard limit on how much miners can be raped.
1434762;1458173269;mircea_popescu;but i don't think SUCH hard rape is contemplated at all.
1434763;1458173273;mircea_popescu;just... a little breather for nodes.
1434764;1458173299;mircea_popescu;the thing is, currently nodes only need disk ; cpu is wasted. ideally a node should use both, so that it makes sense to keep boxes as relay nodes.
1434765;1458173399;mod6;all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs.
1434766;1458173416;mod6;we need like a tmsr stenographer.
1434767;1458173429;mircea_popescu;lol. i dunno, there is the search here.
1434768;1458173436;jurov;there's wiki
1434769;1458173447;mod6;yeah, but i can't ever find shit.  and these details are too important to be lost.
1434770;1458173453;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1434771;1458173471;mod6;unless we use a flag, like BUTTSECKS.
1434772;1458173486;mod6;then we search for that flag, and we see exactly where we should for whatever important topic.
1434773;1458173494;mircea_popescu;wrap every important detail in a buttsekcs condom ?
1434774;1458173501;mod6;hah, yes.
1434775;1458173541;mod6;dare i say, that I would lay out 10 BTC, 2 BTC per year for someone to handle this task.
1434776;1458173588;mod6;hell, i'd do it myself, but there's no way i can keep up with that too.
1434777;1458173607;mircea_popescu;first foundation expenditure ?
1434778;1458173617;mod6;naw, this is a mod6 request.
1434779;1458173632;mircea_popescu;so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it.
1434780;1458173637;mod6;the foundation makes money by not spending any.
1434781;1458173637;mircea_popescu;better that way.
1434782;1458173649;mircea_popescu;and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs,
1434783;1458173696;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it. << i guess i could just do that.
1434784;1458173721;mircea_popescu;be like rockefeller you know ?
1434785;1458173723;mod6;ben_vulpes: any thoughts on this? If I dump 10 BTC to the foundation, will you approve 2BTC/yr for a stenographer?
1434786;1458173758;mircea_popescu;course the other end is harder. who can even do a good job of this.
1434787;1458173768;mod6;bingo.
1434788;1458173771;mod6;hanbot
1434789;1458173777;mircea_popescu;hm
1434790;1458173782;mod6;jurov (who's got too much other shit to do)
1434791;1458173793;mircea_popescu;yeah maybe she could huh
1434792;1458173804;mod6;asciilifeform (who is one arm shy of this job)
1434793;1458173818;mod6;shinohai perhaps
1434794;1458173850;mod6;I'd even say TomServo or thestringpuller would be good candidates as well.  Any wot regs.
1434795;1458173918;*;shinohai applies
1434796;1458173925;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434765 <<< blawg?
1434797;1458173925;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 00:09:59; mod6: all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs.
1434798;1458173925;mircea_popescu;yeah but it's a certain sort of job for a certain sorta person.
1434799;1458173930;mircea_popescu;shinohai you got the patience to stick with it ?
1434800;1458173940;mircea_popescu;davout by all means, you got one neh ? :D
1434801;1458173951;shinohai;what would stenographer need to do?
1434802;1458173960;davout;i saw this one coming :D
1434803;1458173965;mircea_popescu;write down a summary of all the important shit.
1434804;1458173970;mod6;The key to this job is to save the really succint details of technical discussions surrouding future development.  Needs just the right amount of information, too much will be cumbersome.
1434805;1458173989;mircea_popescu;sorta like a careful bash of technical discussions rather than lulz.
1434806;1458173994;mod6;right.
1434807;1458173998;mod6;that exactly.
1434808;1458174004;davout;!b 3
1434809;1458174005;assbot;Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0TKYJM2.txt )
1434810;1458174005;shinohai;so make a state of therealbitcoin address for dummies?
1434811;1458174008;mircea_popescu;lol
1434812;1458174011;mod6;heheheh
1434813;1458174029;mircea_popescu;shinohai no more like keep the notes organised so mod6 doesn't go blind looking for where the fuck i said about knobs and where was it.
1434814;1458174051;mod6;shinohai: eh, I'd say more like a really well kept-up wiki, but yea, that's kinda the idea.
1434815;1458174057;mircea_popescu;actially a wiki format prolly IS best for this,
1434816;1458174065;mircea_popescu;because lets people to fix your shit if needed.
1434817;1458174070;mircea_popescu;mod6 word.
1434818;1458174083;mircea_popescu;WHY DOES EVERYONE IN THIS CHAN STEAL MY IDEAS ALL THE TIME
1434819;1458174087;mircea_popescu;right before i get to say them!
1434820;1458174089;mod6;*nod* yeah, needs to be editable in a way incase of mis-quote or something.
1434821;1458174091;jurov;like... http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/tmsr
1434822;1458174092;assbot;tmsr [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1XYs04a )
1434823;1458174094;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434782 << l0l i know where
1434824;1458174094;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 00:14:09; mircea_popescu: and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs,
1434825;1458174102;asciilifeform;they are in my yard
1434826;1458174110;asciilifeform;eating from plastic bowl
1434827;1458174117;mircea_popescu;cats !?
1434828;1458174120;mircea_popescu;yo cwazy.
1434829;1458174122;asciilifeform;except they aren't people but catz
1434830;1458174127;mod6;jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure.  the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there.
1434831;1458174133;asciilifeform;cause who else lives on 2btc!
1434832;1458174136;mircea_popescu;and for the record alf you stole my v idea too!
1434833;1458174154;asciilifeform;which
1434834;1458174159;mircea_popescu;i dunno, they were all good.
1434835;1458174167;mod6;well, no one said you were gonna live off of 2 BTC a year, unless you live on the dock and eat fish-heads for dinner every night.
1434836;1458174185;mod6;but it's a hell of a lot more than you get when you just volunteer for some shit.
1434837;1458174187;mircea_popescu;one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc.
1434838;1458174197;asciilifeform;^^^
1434839;1458174202;mod6;*nod*
1434840;1458174203;mircea_popescu;ask not what yer country can do for you!
1434841;1458174220;mircea_popescu;for currently, it can at most get you in trouble, and that if you're lucky.
1434842;1458174293;mod6;I'd even be open to the idea of two people splitting up the work there.  Say, split 2BTC/yr between 2 individuals so that we get good coverage at all times.
1434843;1458174339;mod6;Work amongst yourselves to decide who's on duty when so you don't have to worry if out of town or at whorehouse or whatever.
1434844;1458174340;*;asciilifeform reads logz to see wtf this even was 
1434845;1458174364;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ?
1434846;1458174380;mircea_popescu;dude it's gotten so bad ~i~ have to ask for tmsr-pravda articles be translated.
1434847;1458174391;*;asciilifeform misreads as 'wordstar hiphop'
1434848;1458174394;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434837 < the very same btc said to be worthless/useless/br0kended a couple of days ago
1434849;1458174394;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 00:23:07; mircea_popescu: one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc.
1434850;1458174408;funkenstein_;aha a separate hashing of solely the proof of storage digest, this looks like it could work
1434851;1458174420;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: neh, the other btc
1434852;1458174421;mod6;kakobrekla: if you don't like the weather, just wait a few days.
1434853;1458174425;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla slightly not the same.
1434854;1458174425;mod6;:P
1434855;1458174439;mircea_popescu;but do link with the quotes.
1434856;1458174441;funkenstein_;could be added in a la myriad, with separate difficulty
1434857;1458174450;mircea_popescu;funkenstein_ what is this myriad ?
1434858;1458174480;*;mircea_popescu is starting to suspect this lecherous dwarf may be the only one who cavorted with the scamcoins enough.
1434859;1458174486;funkenstein_;its a coin with multiple difficulties for each hash function they use
1434860;1458174493;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30592 @ 0.00041989 = 12.8453 BTC [-] {2} 
1434861;1458174495;funkenstein_;hehe, likely guilty as charged
1434862;1458174541;kakobrekla;im sorry what other btc, the non existing one ?
1434863;1458174578;kakobrekla;afaik the real bitcoin foundation collects btc not imaginary btc (at least bbet was sending those)
1434864;1458174597;mircea_popescu;!s worthless
1434865;1458174597;assbot;499 results for 'worthless' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=worthless
1434866;1458174618;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: the one which nobody ended up dumping massive qty of, the price of - not tanked, etc
1434867;1458174672;*;funkenstein_ retracts myriad scheme suggestion,  it is broken
1434868;1458174675;nubbins`;lel
1434869;1458174723;mircea_popescu;shock.
1434870;1458174750;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434864 <<< obligatory >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqT2uOa1-d0
1434871;1458174750;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 00:29:57; mircea_popescu: !s worthless
1434872;1458174752;assbot;The Brave Little Toaster - Worthless (No Interruptions) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlDtv1 )
1434873;1458174782;mircea_popescu;no but srsly. am i gonna also !s "dump massive" or you get the point.
1434874;1458174908;funkenstein_;so in this suggested coin you have proof a pool operator (aka miner) has a full copy of the block chain
1434875;1458174919;mircea_popescu;aha.
1434876;1458174979;asciilifeform;l0l lavabit case unsealed
1434877;1458175086;asciilifeform;(unrelated)
1434878;1458175150;ben_vulpes;mod6: could be convinced
1434879;1458175201;mod6;ok, cool
1434880;1458175462;asciilifeform;https://cryptome.org/2016/03/usg-lavabit-unsealed.pdf << mega-turd
1434881;1458175510;mircea_popescu;meanwhile, at #eulora : http://dpaste.com/29BJV3V
1434882;1458175512;assbot;dpaste: 29BJV3V ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlElzH )
1434883;1458175585;asciilifeform;the court transcript is pure circus
1434884;1458175599;asciilifeform;worthy of freisler
1434885;1458175604;davout;mircea_popescu: btw, pls to read last x.eur statement, contains statement of collateral to be certified by mpex
1434886;1458175608;mircea_popescu;which was the lavabit ?
1434887;1458175623;mircea_popescu;davout i did read it. you had 40 btc deposited iirc, neh ?
1434888;1458175630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cryptome link, scan
1434889;1458175640;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no i know, but which was it ?
1434890;1458175642;davout;mircea_popescu: yes
1434891;1458175654;mircea_popescu;alrighty then.
1434892;1458175685;asciilifeform;pg 80 iirc
1434893;1458175697;davout;danke schön
1434894;1458175705;mircea_popescu;oh oh the email thing, i recall now
1434895;1458175712;asciilifeform;aha.
1434896;1458175732;asciilifeform;the usg-gets-paper-masterkey one
1434897;1458175738;mircea_popescu;yaya
1434898;1458175864;mircea_popescu;i don't get all these people participating in "sealed" pseudo-legal proceedings.
1434899;1458175884;mircea_popescu;there is no justice outside of the public forum. if party can not speak in public, it may not pretend like it has a case.
1434900;1458175926;asciilifeform;bbbbbbut s333333kr1tz!11111
1434901;1458175931;mircea_popescu;tough titty.
1434902;1458175938;mircea_popescu;don't engage in activities you're ashamed of.
1434903;1458175948;mircea_popescu;if you do - don't come to me to bail you out when they blow up.
1434904;1458175969;asciilifeform;that'd be ~all of this here zimbabwestan aha.
1434905;1458176052;asciilifeform;and at any rate none of these folks work in 'justice' business, they work in 'societal security' aka hitler's service.
1434906;1458176064;mircea_popescu;aha.
1434907;1458176074;mircea_popescu;sucks to be them, i guess.
1434908;1458176098;funkenstein_;asciilifeform how long did you live in zimbabwe?
1434909;1458176126;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: the great zimbabwe of usistan
1434910;1458176129;mircea_popescu;he lives in washington dc and doesn't care for term propriety.
1434911;1458176139;asciilifeform;'92 - present
1434912;1458176172;asciilifeform;train stations still closed !
1434913;1458176179;funkenstein_;so you are comparing usistan to a place you know nothing about?
1434914;1458176180;mircea_popescu;eh whadda ya need 'em for.
1434915;1458176192;mircea_popescu;you ever been funkenstein_ ?
1434916;1458176195;funkenstein_;nope
1434917;1458176199;mircea_popescu;aok.
1434918;1458176226;asciilifeform;but he is very ready to 'you know nothing' aha.
1434919;1458176252;mircea_popescu;i think he dislikes your cultural imperialism.
1434920;1458176261;funkenstein_;you seem to like talking about it, i assumed you'd been there
1434921;1458176274;mircea_popescu;"in my mind - i've been many times"
1434922;1458176280;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: rhodesiana aficionado
1434923;1458176306;funkenstein_;:) cool
1434924;1458176314;mircea_popescu;what, zimbabwe is in rhodesia ?!
1434925;1458176323;asciilifeform;funkenstein_: and of subj of countries-not-on-the-map-no-moar overall
1434926;1458176359;funkenstein_;get a new map if you need one
1434927;1458176374;mircea_popescu;http://www.newzimbabwe.com/news-28242-Zim+embassy+buildings+in+ruins+Parly+hears/news.aspx kinda lulzy.
1434928;1458176376;assbot;Zim embassy buildings in ruins: Parly hears ... ( http://bit.ly/21vZ5nW )
1434929;1458176377;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ==
1434930;1458176460;funkenstein_;lol, with thumbs up even
1434931;1458176533;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ? << It's basically black youtube for fights and shit
1434932;1458176551;mircea_popescu;aok
1434933;1458176642;mircea_popescu;and in other dribbles, http://40.media.tumblr.com/8994722978b9ab1525d2899ed7c7d611/tumblr_mir1m6gTvy1s40vqwo1_1280.jpg
1434934;1458176644;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlFFCL )
1434935;1458176713;BingoBoingo;Anyways worldstar isn't a tmsr thing, it's more an internet thing. basically If you sucker punch someone it is normally assault. If you shout "World Star" while you do it, it becomes instead a prank.
1434936;1458176736;mircea_popescu;ah i remember now.
1434937;1458176983;BingoBoingo;Just one of those black privilege things
1434938;1458178688;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/3RR5F37.txt << have another lul
1434939;1458178690;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1QZjTkM )
1434940;1458178690;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1434941;1458180141;asciilifeform;http://www.elweb.cz/fotky/400.jpg << interesting serendipitous find. a cpu-less rs232 viewer (some brain required!111) i thought about this very thing some years ago, and laughed it off mentally, but someone - built.
1434942;1458180143;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/255iz7q )
1434943;1458180161;asciilifeform;kakobrekla ^ one step beyond mere 'data diode' !
1434944;1458180390;phf;that look like shift register, "some brain" indeed
1434945;1458180403;asciilifeform;to read output!
1434946;1458180408;asciilifeform;not to build.
1434947;1458180412;phf;that's what i mean
1434948;1458180442;kakobrekla;aha interesting concept but missing a lot to make it practically useful
1434949;1458180443;asciilifeform;i can't be arsed to figure out presently whether this eats start/stop-bits correctly.
1434950;1458180454;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: you get the basic idea tho
1434951;1458180459;phf;you read output by counting lit up leds
1434952;1458180513;phf;at transmission rate
1434953;1458180527;asciilifeform;well no, it shifts'em in
1434954;1458180532;asciilifeform;so read at leisure.
1434955;1458180543;asciilifeform;message better be short.
1434956;1458180598;asciilifeform;i've thought for many years about such tools. decomputerize, if you will, as much of the critical 'nuke launch' loop as possible.
1434957;1458180608;asciilifeform;(for whatever your nuke is. pgp, bitcoin, whatevers)
1434958;1458180692;asciilifeform;in the old dayz, you could actually buy eprom burners that were not, in the ordinary sense, computerized
1434959;1458180699;asciilifeform;as in, toggle buttons.
1434960;1458180705;asciilifeform;to input each word.
1434961;1458180713;asciilifeform;and lamps - to read.
1434962;1458180864;phf;su avionics were predominantly analogue, including space stuff, like trajectory calucations, until quite late in the game
1434963;1458180973;phf;but i rarely see "sophisticated" systems outside of cute hacks like that rs232 visualizer. presumably have to be doing this stuff full time for years, with the explicit goal of solving computing problems using analogue means
1434964;1458182519;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform awww.
1434965;1458182534;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: l0ltr0nic
1434966;1458182571;asciilifeform;phf et al: to continue the eprom thread, i was never satisfied with the lights box answer to 'how to keep rom burner from lying'. what i really want is a photographic rom, where the storage die is something like 'microdot' and the reader is generic (in chip package) & separable.
1434967;1458182578;asciilifeform;microdot is trivial to reproduce reliably
1434968;1458182586;asciilifeform;100 y.o. tech.
1434969;1458182620;asciilifeform;bonus if the photo slide is ~composable~
1434970;1458182623;phf;microdot?
1434971;1458182626;asciilifeform;i.e. i can insert >1 on top of one another.
1434972;1458182628;asciilifeform;microdot.
1434973;1458182631;phf;ah, ok, got it
1434974;1458182645;asciilifeform;the ultimate vpatch !
1434975;1458182698;asciilifeform;anyway this is page [redacted] from ye old 'coffin notebook'.
1434976;1458182712;asciilifeform;presented here because thread.
1434977;1458182737;phf;this is a borderline art project
1434978;1458182747;mircea_popescu;^
1434979;1458182772;asciilifeform;it is in re the 'specificity of diddling' thing.
1434980;1458182796;asciilifeform;enemy can embed extra mosfet in the reader, or whatever, but how does he know ~where~, etc.
1434981;1458182807;phf;kind of stuff i'd see come out of martin howse's workshop (and his people)
1434982;1458182808;asciilifeform;(and say i can hook up N of these, and the net result is xor of the lot!)
1434983;1458182827;asciilifeform;^ then they can contain literally ~anything~ and still produce my intended bitstring.
1434984;1458182829;mircea_popescu;dude, the "enemy" has enough trouble finding its own arse.
1434985;1458182851;phf;defending against hypothetical lizard alf
1434986;1458182856;asciilifeform;enemy can be persuaded to make a good faith effort to at least occasionally find his arse
1434987;1458182861;asciilifeform;esp. if we keep kicking him in it.
1434988;1458182864;mircea_popescu;but not much more.
1434989;1458182890;asciilifeform;anyway hopefully everyone understands against whom my designs are actually made.
1434990;1458182912;mircea_popescu;and in other borderline art project news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3470835acf69ddd9f2d81b5c341340d5/tumblr_ntnoh08fJz1s3qr6wo1_1280.jpg
1434991;1458182914;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pMLuwQ )
1434992;1458182914;asciilifeform;they are built with the assumption that i will eventually be cokemachined personally and somehow made to fight for the nazis.
1434993;1458182934;asciilifeform;it is a dismal thing, to play chess with self.
1434994;1458182947;mircea_popescu;srsly.
1434995;1458182952;asciilifeform;but how else.
1434996;1458182957;mircea_popescu;gurlz!
1434997;1458182960;asciilifeform;not like i got anybody worth playing.
1434998;1458182965;asciilifeform;l0l
1434999;1458183018;asciilifeform;phf: i am long-time fan of howse.
1435000;1458183028;asciilifeform;though i know him as '1010'
1435001;1458183065;phf;oh, ok, now things make even more sense
1435002;1458183121;asciilifeform;'The Dark Interpreter is influenced and guided by body capacitance, skin resistance, biological micro-voltages and the fleshy conduction of all signals. These are ways of saying that the Dark Interpreter is completely open. It is not to be considered as a closed and bounded device which is subject to an exterior control "by the body." The Dark Interpreter is an electronic and thus earthy shadow of the body, it is (inside) the
1435003;1458183121;asciilifeform;body. The Dark Interpreter is thus not to be controlled. It is an obsidian electronic mirror, the earth and skin itself.' << i lack the wordz.
1435004;1458183243;asciilifeform;'Inspired in part by a cursory reading of Kafka's short story, In the Penal Colony, in which a complex executable mechanism, its workings and social procedure, are described, a mechanism which inscribes the sentence (of the law) directly on the skin of the 'Condemned Man', pain registers attempts to directly translate or transfer the operational codes which are running on a computer's CPU (Central Processing Unit) in 'real tim
1435005;1458183243;asciilifeform;e' (whilst a common program such as the Firefox web browser is running) into the slow and painful inscription of a needle, piercing the skin of the operator or user's hand. A particular, common operational code such as that dictating the movement of the contents of one place in memory to another location, results in the needle achieving a certain depth in the hand, another opcode, say demanding the addition of two values, migh
1435006;1458183244;asciilifeform;t barely touch the skin of the hand. The repetitive rhythms of changing operational codes, as an application for example initialises its opening state, are translated into the hypnotic, up and down movements of the needle (making use in the second prototype of a CD-ROM ejection mechanism), appearing somewhat like the slowed, jerked motions of a sewing machine.'
1435007;1458183249;asciilifeform;^ mega-art.
1435008;1458183260;asciilifeform;i have not, it turns out, been keeping up with the fella.
1435009;1458183283;asciilifeform;why isn't he here, again?!1111
1435010;1458183298;asciilifeform;'If codes can fuck your computer, where’s the porn that depicts them?' << him
1435011;1458183323;hanbot;mod6:
1435012;1458183323;hanbot;jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there. << i'd be happy to help out however i can. how far back do you see this having to go btw?
1435013;1458183527;asciilifeform;http://www.1010.co.uk/org/psplague.html << glorious
1435014;1458183528;assbot;psplague ... ( http://bit.ly/1XwydmB )
1435015;1458183541;asciilifeform;'Inspired by Julian Oliver's psworld, psplague further explores the links between environment (simulation) and code. Rather than mapping a computer's internal processes onto visual features in the world (as in the case of psworld), in this instance (psplague) UNIX-like processes are attached to medieval villagers within a simple SIR (susceptible, infected, recovered) model of plague infection. When a villager becomes infected
1435016;1458183541;asciilifeform;and dies after a period of time, the attached process running on the computer is terminated or killed. Warning: psplague can result in a more or less instantaneous hard crash.'
1435017;1458183975;asciilifeform;unrelatedly,
1435018;1458183981;asciilifeform;continuing levison thread >>> https://archive.is/5tCtf
1435019;1458183982;assbot;Ladar Levison - As many of you already know, the government cited... ... ( http://bit.ly/1XwzoCG )
1435020;1458184070;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00042133 = 8.4266 BTC [+] {2} 
1435021;1458184209;asciilifeform;back to the microdot,
1435022;1458184218;asciilifeform;b&w photography is ULTRA EASY
1435023;1458184222;asciilifeform;even in JUNGLE CONDITIONS
1435024;1458184226;phf;i periodically revisit his page for inspiration, but i suspect that's he's probably some form of northern european anarcho leftist, which now's been fashionable long enough to perhaps swing back to fascism again. in other words he will probably find b-a rhetoric toxic. but i'm guessing from spending much time with other members of that crowd
1435025;1458184243;asciilifeform;it is the caustics, heavy metals, cleanroom, etc. that suck donkey cock
1435026;1458184256;phf;for all i know he wear leather boots and listens to martial industrial..
1435027;1458184260;asciilifeform;but these possibly can be commoditized into a thing that contains no logic as such
1435028;1458184269;asciilifeform;but simply takes a piece of film.
1435029;1458184306;asciilifeform;phf: actually i see him as something more like a lacan who dropped out of physics, or the like
1435030;1458184391;mod6; hanbot: hi, cool. probably would have to go back to at least the beginning of this whole hard/soft fork discussion i'd think.
1435031;1458184448;punkman;"We didn’t see any of this happening,” Ramos said. “They’re saying  Michael wanted to kill himself. We just don’t know.” She said that  Michael Ford’s mother suffered a heart attack after police in Prince  George’s burst into her house to search it following the shooting and  that she is now at the same hospital as her son." << we just don't know, lol
1435032;1458184469;asciilifeform;that makes ... 2? 3? usg-authored corpses in the case now ?
1435033;1458184471;asciilifeform;4 ?
1435034;1458184483;punkman;oh wait I misread heart attack before station shooting
1435035;1458184490;mod6;anyway, think it over for a bit.  i'll get some coins into the foundation in a few days and then will try to write something up that can be signed.
1435036;1458184503;phf;"if i cut the tape, he realized, my world will disappear. reality will continue for others, but not for me. because my reality, my universe, is coming to me from this minuscule unit. fed into the scanner and then into my central nervous system as it snailishly unwinds."
1435037;1458184611;asciilifeform;aha!
1435038;1458184835;punkman;speakinf of film, I've thought of doing backups on microfilm reels. Small reel holds 5k A4 pages or something.
1435039;1458184938;asciilifeform;punkman: not sure if i ever viewed a microfilm reel without blots
1435040;1458184978;asciilifeform;i suppose you could 'turbo code' it (m of n)
1435041;1458184987;asciilifeform;sorta like folks used to do with cassettes.
1435042;1458184997;punkman;yeah, some redundancy in the data, plus compression, then OCR
1435043;1458185026;punkman;which should also work on paper
1435044;1458185045;punkman;(I mean printed A4 pages)
1435045;1458185118;punkman;"At 42X Reduction, a 215 ft. Roll of Archive Microfilm will hold approximately 12,300 images"
1435046;1458186119;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4009
1435047;1458186121;assbot;JL: More Hoodrats, Mom, Please! ... ( http://bit.ly/255qIbY )
1435048;1458186331;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434750 << how does this relate to more or less "relay work" ?
1435049;1458186331;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 00:03:15; mircea_popescu: and yet another twistable knob exists : the nonce may be shifted before taking the nonceth element.
1435050;1458187686;BingoBoingo;!up liquidbasic
1435051;1458187710;liquidbasic;I know nothing
1435052;1458188142;funkenstein_;a wise man knows he is a fool
1435053;1458190841;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9771 @ 0.00042134 = 4.1169 BTC [+]
1435054;1458192921;BingoBoingo;http://eagnews.org/video-harvard-students-debate-whether-whites-should-kill-themselves-due-to-privilege/
1435055;1458192922;assbot;VIDEO: Harvard students debate whether whites should kill themselves due to ‘privilege’ | EAGnews.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnTQks )
1435056;1458193891;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00041975 = 2.4765 BTC [-] {2} 
1435057;1458203122;jurov;hanbot: it's hard to determine what is obsolete and what isn't in past logs, i'd do only new stuff from now on and go back only following explicit references
1435058;1458206376;davout;mircea_popescu kakobrekla would either of you guys veto my application for the job of bitbet receiver?
1435059;1458207790;jurov;lol such careful approach
1435060;1458207842;*;jurov pictures davout approaching the snakepit with stick
1435061;1458208398;davout;jurov: well yes, this looks like an interesting job though!
1435062;1458208448;jurov;yes, and glad to hear you're interested
1435063;1458208449;davout;now whether both the involved parties think i'm qualified or not is obviously the first thing to clear up
1435064;1458208703;jurov;i can't think of any possible serious objections
1435065;1458208783;jurov;would surprise me if you'd be rejected outright
1435066;1458208793;davout;that's up to the involved parties, wait and see
1435067;1458208916;jurov;just the monkey on my back driving my fingers again, i guess.
1435068;1458208989;davout;obligatory https://vixstar1314.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/fg_evil_monkey.jpg
1435069;1458208990;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lsk758 )
1435070;1458209812;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32574 @ 0.00042099 = 13.7133 BTC [+] {2} 
1435071;1458213471;nubbins`;davout fun
1435072;1458215058;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32100 @ 0.00042091 = 13.5112 BTC [-]
1435073;1458215562;punkman;!t m s.mpoe
1435074;1458215562;assbot;[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00041975 / 0.00042038 / 0.00042134 (279487 shares, 117.49 BTC), 7D: 0.00041975 / 0.0004784 / 0.00053073 (12107697 shares, 5,792.34 BTC), 30D: 0.00041975 / 0.00055005 / 0.00059897 (70614688 shares, 38,841.89 BTC)
1435075;1458217498;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24250 @ 0.00041975 = 10.1789 BTC [-] {3} 
1435076;1458219511;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00041982 = 10.2016 BTC [+] {3} 
1435077;1458222010;mircea_popescu;davout i wouldn't, in principle.
1435078;1458222036;mircea_popescu;i saw you with glasses on once, total accountant look. good enough for me.
1435079;1458222123;shinohai;http://i.imgur.com/IQIhI21.png
1435080;1458222124;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pw94xW )
1435081;1458222304;mircea_popescu;!up panoddl
1435082;1458222366;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform to round up yest's discussion of intelligence : if your putative beast that eats its brain does so in an actual maximum point, then the behaviour of eating the brain is intelligent ; if however it does so in a local maximum point that is later within its lifetime invalidated by events, then the same exact behaviour was unintelligent.
1435083;1458222404;mircea_popescu;this underscores the principal point about intelligence, which is to say that it is an ex post facto construction outside the object, and consequently it can not either be objective, or objectively measured.
1435084;1458222429;mircea_popescu;considered in general, "naturally" which is to say over an universal domain, "intelligence" is meaningless.
1435085;1458222473;mircea_popescu;will may give restrictions of domain upon which an intelligence function may be constructed so it's coherent, but this then doesn't provide a method to justify the will upon which the whole construction is based.
1435086;1458222497;mircea_popescu;this is the fundamental problem of ethics, that you can't have an intelligent justification of will, merely a willful justification of intelligence.
1435087;1458222508;mircea_popescu;and this is why neither ethics nor iqs are a thing.
1435088;1458222537;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435078 <<< :D
1435089;1458222537;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 13:40:36; mircea_popescu: i saw you with glasses on once, total accountant look. good enough for me.
1435090;1458222553;mircea_popescu;now answer the q asked of solrodar if you will.
1435091;1458222593;davout;refresh my memory?
1435092;1458222628;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433077 and following.
1435093;1458222628;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 00:50:59; mircea_popescu: i'm sure somebody somewhere has, why not. anyway : what do you plan to do to maximize shareholder revenue from bitbet assets ?
1435094;1458222918;shinohai;!s https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4aqi1s/these_42_bitcoin_projects_were_shutdown_by_an/
1435095;1458222919;assbot;These 42 Bitcoin projects were shutdown by an ongoing DDoS attack : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1pwajxf )
1435096;1458222920;assbot;0 results for 'https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4aqi1s/these_42_bitcoin_projects_were_shutdown_by_an/' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBitcoin%2Fcomments%2F4aqi1s%2Fthese_42_bitcoin_projects_were_shutdown_by_an%2F
1435097;1458223050;davout;that would be three-fold: not charge more than a few percent for the whole liquidation, evaluate all claims against bitbet in light of its actual contract (and more specifically, the 3.2 (d) clause), try to get as much as possible from the non-cash assets, and (quite importantly) not disappear with the cash
1435098;1458223067;davout;(and yes, that's more than three points)
1435099;1458223127;mircea_popescu;doesn't tell me much.
1435100;1458223152;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435009 << - >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435008
1435101;1458223152;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 02:54:43; asciilifeform: why isn't he here, again?!1111
1435102;1458223152;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 02:54:20; asciilifeform: i have not, it turns out, been keeping up with the fella.
1435103;1458223163;mircea_popescu;i take it's because you were too jwz to have invited him already ?
1435104;1458223246;davout;mircea_popescu: ask something a bit more specific maybe?
1435105;1458223275;mircea_popescu;dear god. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433080
1435106;1458223275;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 00:52:46; mircea_popescu: do you have any sort of particular assets that'd likely help ? prior experience in doing this sort of thing (selling online properties) ? connections or otherwise some power putting you above others in some way ?
1435107;1458223286;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433083
1435108;1458223286;assbot;Logged on 15-03-2016 00:55:05; mircea_popescu: i don't think you take my meaning. have you for instance ever auctioned a domain name successfully ? are you well known in those circles ? anything ?
1435109;1458223292;mircea_popescu;what did you think & following means ?
1435110;1458223313;mircea_popescu;there's a list there. don't have to go through it as is, read it, think it through also works.
1435111;1458223370;davout;well i did get that and read it, but i don't have any particular assets or connections other than my wot and history that put me in a particularly better position than others to do the job
1435112;1458223389;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435024 << it is a sin, i will point out, to act today on the basis of an evaluation of tomorrow. please, causes. forget effects. THEY are toxic.
1435113;1458223389;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 03:10:26; phf: i periodically revisit his page for inspiration, but i suspect that's he's probably some form of northern european anarcho leftist, which now's been fashionable long enough to perhaps swing back to fascism again. in other words he will probably find b-a rhetoric toxic. but i'm guessing from spending much time with other members of that crowd
1435114;1458223402;mircea_popescu;davout i see!
1435115;1458223412;davout;so yeah, no particular mention of those non-extant things
1435116;1458223434;mircea_popescu;much better stated like this than stated like you know, in the fiat wooden tongue. at least for my needs.
1435117;1458223458;davout;pardon my french
1435118;1458223475;mircea_popescu;:p
1435119;1458223547;mircea_popescu;(to explain my thought process to the curious bystander - i would have seriously considered the application of a fiat-based receiver with provable practice but innocent of the wot over solrodar's ; i won't consider such over davout's. this means that in the past coupla days a window for some people to actually make their corpses useful to the world opened and closed - notwithstanding their or anyone else's pretense to
1435120;1458223547;mircea_popescu;the contrary.)
1435121;1458223673;davout;bbl
1435122;1458223822;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435023 << hence all the soviet youth's photo labs.
1435123;1458223822;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 03:10:22; asciilifeform: even in JUNGLE CONDITIONS
1435124;1458223900;mircea_popescu;phf for my curiosity, what's your classification of "b-a rhetorics" ? anarcho-neoliberal ? deco-existentialist ?
1435125;1458223983;mircea_popescu;;;google liber-schimbist
1435126;1458223984;gribble;Party of Free Change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Free_Change>; 10 Ridiculous Political Parties You Won't Believe Got Elected ...: <http://listverse.com/2016/01/20/10-ridiculous-political-parties-you-wont-believe-got-elected/>; liber - Wikționar: <https://ro.wiktionary.org/wiki/liber>
1435127;1458224553;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435032 << pretty lulzy.
1435128;1458224553;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 03:14:29; asciilifeform: that makes ... 2? 3? usg-authored corpses in the case now ?
1435129;1458224593;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435036 << you mean he didn't move to argentina ?!
1435130;1458224593;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 03:15:03; phf: "if i cut the tape, he realized, my world will disappear. reality will continue for others, but not for me. because my reality, my universe, is coming to me from this minuscule unit. fed into the scanner and then into my central nervous system as it snailishly unwinds."
1435131;1458224599;mircea_popescu;i'm shocked. SHOCKED! i say!
1435132;1458224698;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435045 << you';re better off with digital storage than analogic. even for the narrow cases where analogic usually wins (film archival) it's on the grounds of "preserving the original item, which was analogic rather than transform it in some manner the lossy-ness of which we can't evaluate", nothing more.
1435133;1458224698;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 03:25:18; punkman: "At 42X Reduction, a 215 ft. Roll of Archive Microfilm will hold approximately 12,300 images"
1435134;1458224762;jurov;punkman: you can use http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/
1435135;1458224763;assbot;Twibright Optar ... ( http://bit.ly/256k5X5 )
1435136;1458224786;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435048 << if the nonce is not shifted at all, each digest is good for exactly one nonce. if the nonce is shifted one bit, each digest is good for 2 nonces. if it is shifted 10 bits, 1024 nonces. etc.
1435137;1458224786;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 03:45:31; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434750 << how does this relate to more or less "relay work" ?
1435138;1458224895;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron an important point to consider is the data & i/o meaning of "1 petahash". if each single hash requires 256 bits of data to proceed, you are looking at 32 petabytes of data that has to move. in a second ? ouch.
1435139;1458225140;mircea_popescu;i mean i know gavin-moore law will "fix this in the future", of course, but this isn't how engineering works.
1435140;1458225149;mircea_popescu;in fact, that's eactly how engineering ISN'T done.
1435141;1458225174;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435051 << ahahaha.
1435142;1458225174;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 04:08:30; liquidbasic: I know nothing
1435143;1458225178;mircea_popescu;;;google know-nothings
1435144;1458225178;gribble;Know Nothing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing>; Know-Nothing party | political party, United States | Britannica.com: <http://www.britannica.com/topic/Know-Nothing-party>; Freedom: A History of US. Webisode 8: Who's Land is This?. - PBS: <http://www.pbs.org/wnet/historyofus/web08/segment5.html>
1435145;1458225664;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435055 << they should at least wear those cute see through frilly socks! if they can't go all the way to http://41.media.tumblr.com/a512c6749b02295db8b4c267a379a075/tumblr_nlayqenekm1u2r4a0o1_1280.jpg
1435146;1458225664;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 05:35:22; assbot: VIDEO: Harvard students debate whether whites should kill themselves due to ‘privilege’ | EAGnews.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnTQks )
1435147;1458225666;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RoEA6O )
1435148;1458226261;mircea_popescu;"The suburbs are doomed. Go rural or stay urban, where you at least have structurally defensible enclaves, as opposed to getting caught in the suburban net that was designed to put you at the mercy of teenage criminals when you are in your eighties." << to the uncharitable eye it'd seem south africa was actually an experiment rather than happenstance.
1435149;1458226408;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435057 << he has a good point.
1435150;1458226408;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 08:25:22; jurov: hanbot: it's hard to determine what is obsolete and what isn't in past logs, i'd do only new stuff from now on and go back only following explicit references
1435151;1458226424;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435083 << this puts you in the lulzy position of saying the same for, e.g., voltage.
1435152;1458226424;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 13:46:44; mircea_popescu: this underscores the principal point about intelligence, which is to say that it is an ex post facto construction outside the object, and consequently it can not either be objective, or objectively measured.
1435153;1458226431;asciilifeform;or even mass.
1435154;1458226434;mircea_popescu;how does it do that ?
1435155;1458226440;mircea_popescu;yes, mass. see qm.
1435156;1458226444;asciilifeform;well, 'ex post facto measurement.'
1435157;1458226445;asciilifeform;aha
1435158;1458226457;asciilifeform;nevertheless these are essential engineering abstractions.
1435159;1458226492;mircea_popescu;IF you can stay carefully out in a domain where the newtonian approximation is close enough, THEN  you'll be ok with that idea of intelligence.
1435160;1458226492;mircea_popescu;however, it appears pretty narrow.
1435161;1458226500;asciilifeform;sure.
1435162;1458226505;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform just because one whore was easy doesn't mean all whores are going to be as easy.
1435163;1458226544;mircea_popescu;and this one particular whore seems hell bent on making life miserable.
1435164;1458226552;asciilifeform;hm?
1435165;1458226568;mircea_popescu;yes, mass you can presume you'll fuck for a cracker.
1435166;1458226572;mircea_popescu;intelligence ? dear god.
1435167;1458226627;asciilifeform;we have a pretty good handle on stupidity though.
1435168;1458226635;asciilifeform;largely i work with ~it~
1435169;1458226637;asciilifeform;not intelligence.
1435170;1458226699;mircea_popescu;maybe.
1435171;1458226740;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435103 << he walked out of my cache. now back in. i am considering writing to him, but probably i am no good at this, none of the folks thus far to whom i wrote, showed up.
1435172;1458226740;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 13:59:23; mircea_popescu: i take it's because you were too jwz to have invited him already ?
1435173;1458226796;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435122 << i have right here !
1435174;1458226796;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 14:10:22; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435023 << hence all the soviet youth's photo labs.
1435175;1458226802;asciilifeform;doesn't everyone!??!1111
1435176;1458226876;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435132 << original thread was about AUDITABLE devices
1435177;1458226876;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 14:24:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435045 << you';re better off with digital storage than analogic. even for the narrow cases where analogic usually wins (film archival) it's on the grounds of "preserving the original item, which was analogic rather than transform it in some manner the lossy-ness of which we can't evaluate", nothing more.
1435178;1458226883;asciilifeform;as in, photo has ~no state.
1435179;1458226897;asciilifeform;no hidden 'will flip if xyz' functionality possible.
1435180;1458227061;mircea_popescu;oh hey check it out, wikipedia manages a 5k word article on "allied invasion of sicily" without the words "cosa nostra", "mafia" or "vizzini". way to go, history by the retards, for the retards, a complete pie!
1435181;1458227070;mircea_popescu;anyways asciilifeform : ever heard of one calogero vizzini ?
1435182;1458227111;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform check it out, your idea of "auditable" maps exactly on my idea of "clearsign" yet you had trouble digesting that ?!?!?!?!
1435183;1458227227;asciilifeform;i dun see ?
1435184;1458227263;asciilifeform;clearsign involves magic words that break the flow of events
1435185;1458227267;asciilifeform;which imho is retarded.
1435186;1458227282;mircea_popescu;i can print it and have my slaves verify it by hand.
1435187;1458227282;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu wrote about how s&m with 'safeword' is retarded
1435188;1458227286;asciilifeform;he oughta understand?
1435189;1458227316;mircea_popescu;notwithstanding that magic words are retarded.
1435190;1458227327;asciilifeform;you can have as easily the slaves print out nonclearsigned (magic header, vs magic inband) and verify.
1435191;1458227333;asciilifeform;in hex if you like.
1435192;1458227352;asciilifeform;and in fact this is POINTEDLY easier.
1435193;1458227360;asciilifeform;because they do not need to transform the payload.
1435194;1458227482;asciilifeform;only hash it.
1435195;1458227547;mircea_popescu;and YOU can just as well have a trusted computer to print out the digital store.
1435196;1458227566;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435148 << city is 'defensible' if the city is stalingrad, and 'defend' can include 'destroy', and red army is flying in supplies.
1435197;1458227566;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 14:51:01; mircea_popescu: "The suburbs are doomed. Go rural or stay urban, where you at least have structurally defensible enclaves, as opposed to getting caught in the suburban net that was designed to put you at the mercy of teenage criminals when you are in your eighties." << to the uncharitable eye it'd seem south africa was actually an experiment rather than happenstance.
1435198;1458227600;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform he means something very specific by "structurally defensive enclaves".
1435199;1458227604;asciilifeform;are these folks really imagining they will defend in a siege from a row house ?
1435200;1458227612;mircea_popescu;it's a concept more correctly derived from crystallography, of which he's unaware :
1435201;1458227629;mircea_popescu;amorphous pockets the energy of resolution for which exceeds the destruction energy for the crystal.
1435202;1458227638;asciilifeform;warsaw ghetto ?
1435203;1458227661;mircea_popescu;yes, it's delusional. but it's what he means.
1435204;1458227668;mircea_popescu;and in the domain he knows how to contemplate, he is correct.
1435205;1458227679;mircea_popescu;"correct like the jews". should be a trope.
1435206;1458227685;asciilifeform;it works - for a spell - against waffen ss, but not king hunger.
1435207;1458227691;mircea_popescu;"what could POSSIBLY happen if we badmouth and boycott german goods ?"
1435208;1458227708;mircea_popescu;"i dunno, maybe most of you die in a large pit fire ?"
1435209;1458227711;mircea_popescu;"WHAT!111!"
1435210;1458227776;mircea_popescu;but the most interesting of all these threads - ever heard of one calogero vizzini ?
1435211;1458227880;asciilifeform;btw the crystal concept has applications even in orcdom
1435212;1458227886;asciilifeform;small arms 'demilitarized' for museums sometimes have lead poured into the barrel
1435213;1458227891;asciilifeform;idea being that if you heat it to melt the lead out, you destroy the temper.
1435214;1458227895;mircea_popescu;so it does. it's one of those bits of reality that keeps repeating.
1435215;1458227901;asciilifeform;aha
1435216;1458227941;asciilifeform;'we had to destroy the village in order to save it' (tm) (r)
1435217;1458227953;mircea_popescu;amputations still occur.
1435218;1458227961;asciilifeform;aha.
1435219;1458228003;asciilifeform;an i am, approx., a pro amputator.
1435220;1458228016;asciilifeform;little else.
1435221;1458228173;asciilifeform;http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-new-video-executions-fallujah-iraq-six-spies-leaking-militants-files-details-a6936436.html << moar lulz
1435222;1458228174;assbot;Isis executes six ‘spies’ in Iraq accused of leaking militants’ details | Middle East | News | The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1MplgFs )
1435223;1458228248;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how come nobody seems to get impaled in the arab lands ? assyrians, iirc, are thought to have ~invented~ the fucking stake!111 why no impale ?!11
1435224;1458228326;mircea_popescu;how would i know!
1435225;1458228336;asciilifeform;who if not mircea_popescu would know!11
1435226;1458228344;mircea_popescu;these two can coexist.
1435227;1458228368;asciilifeform;apparently.
1435228;1458228380;mircea_popescu;anyway, impalement is what i'd do. established absolute ruler of great power and etc. isis isn't that, just a swarming mob. of course they prefer beheadings, manlier.
1435229;1458228401;mircea_popescu;once they get an actual suleyman, impalements have a better chance.
1435230;1458228417;asciilifeform;hm yeah, crowd gotta hold still long enough to enjoy an impalement
1435231;1458228422;asciilifeform;no such thing in the orc lands.
1435232;1458228705;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435136 << still having a hard time with this. Wouldn't shifting the nonce just leave you with another nonce? I don't understand how it would line up with multiple nonces..
1435233;1458228705;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 14:26:26; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435048 << if the nonce is not shifted at all, each digest is good for exactly one nonce. if the nonce is shifted one bit, each digest is good for 2 nonces. if it is shifted 10 bits, 1024 nonces. etc.
1435234;1458228746;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435119 << holy fuck, srsly?! mircea_popescu would let somebody liquidate the 750 coin, and try to pay the bettors in fiat, with kyc crapolade, etc. ?!!!11
1435235;1458228746;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 14:05:47; mircea_popescu: (to explain my thought process to the curious bystander - i would have seriously considered the application of a fiat-based receiver with provable practice but innocent of the wot over solrodar's ; i won't consider such over davout's. this means that in the past coupla days a window for some people to actually make their corpses useful to the world opened and closed - notwithstanding their or anyone 
1435236;1458228787;asciilifeform;or is there some ~other~ wotless 'proven practice' i don't know about.
1435237;1458229522;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ah, no. they'd have to get in wot and follow teh rules, of course.
1435238;1458229558;mircea_popescu;and if i hire an immigrant irishman as a carpenter, that STILL means he's gonna carpent in fucking new york, not that i'm paying his passage back to dublin to make me some doors and window frames there. wtf.
1435239;1458229672;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron let's work an example. say the nonce is 7. this means hash1=f(header+7) and hash2 = g(digest(7)+7)
1435240;1458229717;mircea_popescu;if in fact a shift by 2 was in effect, it'd be the case that hash1=f(header+7) and  hash2 = g(digest(1)+1)
1435241;1458229744;mircea_popescu;hash2 would have been the same for all nonces over 3, ie, 4, 5, 6 and 7. it'd have also been the same for all nonces under 4, ie, 0, 1, 2 and 3.
1435242;1458229758;mircea_popescu;this means you get to do 4 old style hashings for each new style digest you calculate.
1435243;1458229823;mircea_popescu;this because 2 bits = 2^2 = 4. had the shift been 17 bits, then you'd get to do 2^17 = 131072 old style hashings for each new style digest you calculate.
1435244;1458229826;danielpbarron;how do you get to 1 from a shift of 2 away from 7?
1435245;1458229834;mircea_popescu;7 is 111 in binary.
1435246;1458229845;mircea_popescu;0111 shifted 2 is 0001
1435247;1458229855;danielpbarron;aha
1435248;1458231345;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00042133 = 6.657 BTC [+] {2} 
1435249;1458231526;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] The New Bitcoin - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-new-bitcoin/
1435250;1458231640;mircea_popescu;mod6 ^ ?
1435251;1458232062;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron you know i think comments are somehow broken ? i push teh button, nothing happens.
1435252;1458232091;davout;;;isup http://danielpbarron.com/
1435253;1458232097;gribble;http://danielpbarron.com/ is down
1435254;1458232100;davout;danielpbarron: ^
1435255;1458232195;danielpbarron;dang
1435256;1458232212;danielpbarron;pogo really shouldn't be used for this purpose :<
1435257;1458232889;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: what os on the pogo?
1435258;1458232898;asciilifeform;what httptron?
1435259;1458232959;mircea_popescu;well, since alf doesn't want to engage the failure modes of "we know what stupidity is", let's just leave reference to perhaps the best folkloric work of all time, https://archive.org/stream/operecompletedig301pitr/operecompletedig301pitr_djvu.txt
1435260;1458232962;assbot;Full text of "Opere complete di Giuseppe Pitrè.." ... ( http://bit.ly/1pO7WFU )
1435261;1458232971;mircea_popescu;and call it good.
1435262;1458233071;danielpbarron;asciilifeform, arch linux, apache2
1435263;1458233082;mircea_popescu;nah, nginx.
1435264;1458233091;danielpbarron;https://archive.is/LU8EH << in case it goes down again
1435265;1458233093;assbot;The New Bitcoin – Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1pO8zPJ )
1435266;1458233099;mircea_popescu;apache really dun work for this purpose.
1435267;1458233109;danielpbarron;your comment is approved although i did that after the archive
1435268;1458233120;mircea_popescu;ah it made it through ? cool.
1435269;1458233154;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: ick systemd
1435270;1458233163;danielpbarron;i know it sucks
1435271;1458233168;asciilifeform;and i had it, it was a turd
1435272;1458233177;asciilifeform;forget about it
1435273;1458233191;asciilifeform;build my portatron
1435274;1458233195;danielpbarron;if i'm gonna move off a pogo i'll use gentoo on whatever the replacement is
1435275;1458233196;asciilifeform;it - worx
1435276;1458233205;asciilifeform;pogo is spiffy
1435277;1458233220;danielpbarron;just so happens i had arch on pogo already set up, so it was the easiest to get blog going on
1435278;1458233221;asciilifeform;no need to move.
1435279;1458233251;danielpbarron;is it possible to do gentoo on pogo?
1435280;1458233263;asciilifeform;'don't eat from dumpsters' (tm) (r) (mp)
1435281;1458233269;asciilifeform;sure.
1435282;1458233309;danielpbarron;i think if i enable caching the pogo might survive all those hits at once better
1435283;1458233342;asciilifeform;when i tried the arch, systemd would hose the box ~weekly
1435284;1458233361;asciilifeform;or if you actually put load on it
1435285;1458233415;mircea_popescu;seems to be how it goes lol.
1435286;1458234156;davout;danielpbarron: i reddit'd your piece for increased pogotron ddos lulz
1435287;1458234256;davout;danielpbarron: i may have an old ipnohe lying around if you ever feel like upgrading your blawg's hosting
1435288;1458234308;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron you know, it occurs to me your idea to run a webserver on pogo may actually be very valuable.
1435289;1458234323;mircea_popescu;see if you manage to apply alf's thing and if it runs well. if it does, a next step you can take is :
1435290;1458234363;mircea_popescu;see if your isp is willing to give you a c block / upgrade your connection. buy a coupla bridges of 32 or 64, make a high voltage rectifier thingee, and power a bunch of boxes
1435291;1458234397;mircea_popescu;people would prolly be willing to pay a few dollars /mo to rent an ACTUAL physical box, which means you can take a few hundred in exchange for a not-unreasonable upfront expenditure.
1435292;1458234479;mircea_popescu;and since you have the wot at your disposal most of the costs involved in low end hosting (ie, keeping the scum out) you're insulated from.
1435293;1458234532;mircea_popescu;if it can run an obscure wp blog, it certainly can run a bnc or whatever other such thing. much better security model than "i pay 20 dollars to dc hosted blabla-freedom.net"
1435294;1458234767;danielpbarron;yeah i got another pogo doing my irc client; it was also doing my old non-wp website
1435295;1458234790;mircea_popescu;(by a high voltage rectifier thingee i mean that iirc pogos draw 4.5 V dc. a > kv rectifier diode is twenty bucks or something, you can make yourself an item you plug into the wall and it feeds 100 pogos arranged in series out of maybe a hundy.)
1435296;1458234796;danielpbarron;actually the irc one is the lesser non-sata pogo
1435297;1458234858;danielpbarron;using an sd card for the userland, and in two cases both had the filesystem corrupted, which is why I had to try it on my sata-style pogo
1435298;1458234961;mircea_popescu;320V DC out of wall socket is a electronics 101 project ever since the times of hte b&w photo clubs.
1435299;1458235085;nubbins`;i have three SATA pogos and two non-SATA
1435300;1458235092;nubbins`;one's a NAS
1435301;1458235100;nubbins`;one may end up as a CUPS server
1435302;1458235328;asciilifeform;series?!11111
1435303;1458235343;mircea_popescu;yes ?
1435304;1458235358;mircea_popescu;how do you call it, add voltage, same current ?
1435305;1458235364;asciilifeform;so whole lot can die cascade death when one shorts ?!!
1435306;1458235374;mircea_popescu;eh, so you fuse it, big whoop.
1435307;1458235381;asciilifeform;fuse dun work this way.
1435308;1458235385;mircea_popescu;if one in 100 shorts you get a 1% increase, which they don't care anyway.
1435309;1458235386;asciilifeform;fuse is for overcurrent.
1435310;1458235391;mircea_popescu;yes ?
1435311;1458235395;asciilifeform;not overvoltage.
1435312;1458235403;mircea_popescu;there's overvoltage fuse also!
1435313;1458235411;asciilifeform;and if one opencircuits ?
1435314;1458235418;asciilifeform;sorry, this is nutso.
1435315;1458235433;mircea_popescu;if one opencircuits what ?
1435316;1458235437;asciilifeform;even in analogue world, this is no longer a thing.
1435317;1458235443;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: then whole thing stops
1435318;1458235446;mircea_popescu;so ?
1435319;1458235451;asciilifeform;so this is retarded.
1435320;1458235455;mircea_popescu;you throw it ouyt and big deal.
1435321;1458235518;asciilifeform;and it isn't as if these don't come with a civilized 12v regulated brick.
1435322;1458235521;phf;mircea_popescu: i take rhetoric as separate from message. b-a rhetoric is firmly in asshole tradition, i.e. strong statements and the listener has an option to find the subtle point.
1435323;1458235523;asciilifeform;so wtf
1435324;1458235540;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform would you stop getting in the way of people doing things omigerd.
1435325;1458235566;mircea_popescu;i'm going to power 100x 12 v transformers because wut, "i can't make things - gotta use chinese made!!1"
1435326;1458235567;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: why the FUCK to do this?!111 good way to nuke a dozen or two nonrenewable resource pogotrons
1435327;1458235576;asciilifeform;thing eats REGULATED 12v
1435328;1458235578;asciilifeform;srsly
1435329;1458235581;mircea_popescu;so he sees if he likes fucking with hardware.
1435330;1458235594;asciilifeform;why not ~usefully~ fuck
1435331;1458235604;asciilifeform;e.g., reattache the missing sata plugs to the cheapo pogo version
1435332;1458235608;asciilifeform;*reattach
1435333;1458235612;mircea_popescu;because you gotta start with easy.
1435334;1458235627;mircea_popescu;this is an eery repeat of the chicken story, somehow.
1435335;1458235634;mircea_popescu;who the FUCK cares about fucking chickens already!
1435336;1458235642;asciilifeform;what's easier than soldering a plug into a pre-prepped landing pad ?
1435337;1458235652;mircea_popescu;this brave new libertard world that "holds people as the greatest value", i am so sick of it!
1435338;1458235687;asciilifeform;wawat
1435339;1458235688;mircea_popescu;phf methinks you may be alone in that interpretation. i for instance don't do the whole "accept as fairitale" thing.
1435340;1458235699;danielpbarron;recall i already did the soldering thing to make adulterated pogo
1435341;1458235703;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform let the man burn pogos. i will not change man to protect pogos. wtf.
1435342;1458235768;asciilifeform;if yer gonna burn pogos, why not usefully, see how much overclock the thing can take, or see if you can upgrade the ram
1435343;1458235772;asciilifeform;(quite nontrivial)
1435344;1458235795;mircea_popescu;your idea of usefully is centered on the thing.
1435345;1458235805;mircea_popescu;it is a sickening display.
1435346;1458235865;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when you invite folks for target practice, which piece do you let them fire ? the luger, penny a round, or the rare borschardt 1890 where each round has to be bought from museum ?
1435347;1458235870;phf;mircea_popescu: which interpretation? i'm saying that the way arguments are presented here is essentially "this is how it is, and you're an idiot for not grokking" as opposed to some other, perhaps subtler, forms of rhetoric
1435348;1458235894;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i will remind you i am the one who plans to buy the ancient collection of chinese miniature emperors on rice beads
1435349;1458235898;mircea_popescu;and make it pilaf.
1435350;1458235910;mircea_popescu;phf ah, like that.
1435351;1458235911;phf;european leftists have been inexplicably at war with trolling (which is a 180 change from how it was in the 90s and prior), somehow went from CRASS to respecting each others feelings, so takes some conscious effort to court some from that circle
1435352;1458235915;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: exciting
1435353;1458235954;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: but i think isis stole your idea
1435354;1458235959;mircea_popescu;a well.
1435355;1458236000;mircea_popescu;anyway. powering a bunch of pogos in the discussed way is neither terribly difficult nor terribly risky. it does require some reading, of course. and it does deviate from "how things are done", which is a major asset.
1435356;1458236059;asciilifeform;street lights used to be powered this way.
1435357;1458236061;asciilifeform;in 1890s
1435358;1458236064;mircea_popescu;aha.
1435359;1458236068;asciilifeform;it sucked.
1435360;1458236078;mircea_popescu;shut up, if we end up back in 1890 you'll be thankful for dpb.
1435361;1458236094;asciilifeform;who do i call if i end up in 1790 ?
1435362;1458236099;mircea_popescu;give me some time.
1435363;1458236241;mircea_popescu;phf that change, incidentally, makes me completely discount the euro "left" movement.
1435364;1458236251;phf;yes
1435365;1458236254;mircea_popescu;they stand for exactly nothing ; one generation switch can change any major tenet.
1435366;1458236261;mircea_popescu;might as well care what the "fashion world" thinks.
1435367;1458236274;mircea_popescu;which, incidentally, is EXACTLY what they are. the fashion world of ugly chicks and insecure betas.
1435368;1458236323;asciilifeform;i thought this was obvious ?
1435369;1458236348;asciilifeform;and, these folks have been adrift since the kgb financing dried up.
1435370;1458236351;mircea_popescu;well obvious or not now it's also stated.
1435371;1458236399;phf;i thought there was some cool shit, RAF for example had a very practical nazi beurocrat cleaning program
1435372;1458236424;mircea_popescu;are you talking 50s ?!
1435373;1458236459;phf;problem with being autodidact, 50s look as close as yesterday
1435374;1458236502;asciilifeform;^^^
1435375;1458236523;*;mircea_popescu jew-york handwaves
1435376;1458236568;asciilifeform;i have whole shelf of 1950s b00kz in 'computing' section of my library. they are spiffy & useful.
1435377;1458236589;asciilifeform;and contain actual technical material, not only maths, not found elsewhere
1435378;1458236613;asciilifeform;(e.g., description of how magnetic recording actually happens, the material aspects of the media, etc0
1435379;1458236616;asciilifeform;)
1435380;1458236668;asciilifeform;items like, e.g., delay line storage, crt memory, etc. also.
1435381;1458236684;asciilifeform;things we may well come back to, If This Goes On
1435382;1458236741;asciilifeform;incidentally, physical quality of books in the english world peaked some time in 50s.
1435383;1458236817;asciilifeform;in other lulz,
1435384;1458236818;asciilifeform;http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/botched-java-patch-leaves-millions-vulnerable-to-30-month-old-attack
1435385;1458236819;assbot;Botched Java patch leaves millions vulnerable to 30-month-old attack | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDjCGO )
1435386;1458236948;asciilifeform;moar lulz from same rag, http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/nsa-refused-clinton-a-secure-blackberry-like-obama-so-she-used-her-own
1435387;1458236950;assbot;NSA refused Clinton a secure BlackBerry like Obama, so she used her own | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDk1ZQ )
1435388;1458237066;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> what's easier than soldering a plug into a pre-prepped landing pad ? << ANYTHING that doesn't involve "pre-prepped". what's easier than marrying this girl your mommy splayed out on the bed for you ???
1435389;1458237067;mircea_popescu;jesus.
1435390;1458237201;mircea_popescu;phf thinking about it, i think the switch has a lot to do with their delusional notion that they're somehow now in power.
1435391;1458237229;asciilifeform;so when $random-ba-visitor proposes doing something idiotic with financitronics, mircea_popescu says 'this is moronic' and this is a-ok, because financitronics is a mircea_popescu-competence. when i say 'this is moronic' and subj is electronics, then i am on crack?
1435392;1458237235;asciilifeform;this makes sense to anyone ?
1435393;1458237270;asciilifeform;sorry, series power supply for digital apparatus is dumb.
1435394;1458237275;mircea_popescu;a) i've on many occasions said, "this is stupid but will be instructive, proceed" ; b) you think this is about production, which it isn't, it's educational.
1435395;1458237288;asciilifeform;well i suppose from some angle ~anything~ is educational.
1435396;1458237299;asciilifeform;let folks learn by pissing on electric fence, wahtever.
1435397;1458237306;mircea_popescu;and from that same angle, the value of tmsr engineer is g(value of burned pogos)
1435398;1458237317;asciilifeform;sure.
1435399;1458237332;asciilifeform;burn, burn.
1435400;1458237344;mircea_popescu;and the same EXACT arguments you use could be used to persuade me (or at least a dumber version) to use java instead of tinyscheme.
1435401;1458237350;mircea_popescu;but the EXACT same.
1435402;1458237364;mircea_popescu;"hey, it's not done like that since the 50s! the 50s sucked!"
1435403;1458237366;mircea_popescu;etc.
1435404;1458237432;phf;exactly same arguments i'd use to convince someone to use tinyscheme i can use to convince ~myself~ to use java..
1435405;1458237546;mircea_popescu;lol show this ?
1435406;1458237598;asciilifeform;and with same hammer, pound in nail, or skull, aha
1435407;1458237612;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if you're either bored or butthurt
1435408;1458237616;mircea_popescu;enough about this matter :
1435409;1458237632;mircea_popescu;get a customizable power bridge, link pogo, see how much it'll take before it falls over.
1435410;1458237656;mircea_popescu;by now the bricks are so shitty, and tolerance so easy, it's surprising what "digital apparatus" takes in terms of abuse.
1435411;1458237667;mircea_popescu;much more than analog apparatus of a century ago, that's for damn sure.
1435412;1458237703;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: one of the other things about 'take rectifier and power 10 - or 20 in eu - in series' is that you get one of the problems of the chinese bricks, but in spades: ripple
1435413;1458237714;asciilifeform;good dc brick has rectifier + large filter cap
1435414;1458237720;asciilifeform;chinese - only the former
1435415;1458237731;mircea_popescu;nothing prevents you from spending the 35 bucks for a roll of 100 caps.
1435416;1458237741;asciilifeform;1 big.
1435417;1458237793;mircea_popescu;eh, he CAN make a better series arrangement than what the brick does. for srs.
1435418;1458237802;mircea_popescu;such is the power of artizanship in this day of industrial decay.
1435419;1458237854;jurov;lmao mp publicly plots to kill danielpbaron by suggesting him to work with 300V directly from tap?
1435420;1458237888;asciilifeform;and say he wants to switch one off ?
1435421;1458237888;mircea_popescu;eh get out ; if he has a tv set he has 2kv or some shit in the house already.
1435422;1458237889;mircea_popescu;who died ?
1435423;1458237897;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why would he want that ?
1435424;1458237912;mircea_popescu;(think about it - do you recall your ONLY complaint to date re dcs ? do you ? hm ?)
1435425;1458237960;jurov;yay 2kv, why not? moar pogos at once!!!
1435426;1458237976;mircea_popescu;jurov careful with the mw unit also. some of those - 10kv!
1435427;1458238010;asciilifeform;jurov: 100kV !111
1435428;1458238018;asciilifeform;connect directly to street transformer!11
1435429;1458238020;jurov;yes, why not steal from outdoor 60kV line diretly?
1435430;1458238023;asciilifeform;aha
1435431;1458238025;asciilifeform;l0l
1435432;1458238035;*;mircea_popescu jew-york waves AGAIN
1435433;1458238044;mircea_popescu;eeeeeeh!
1435434;1458238078;*;asciilifeform pictures jacob's ladder in series with pogo rack
1435435;1458239885;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9803 @ 0.00042123 = 4.1293 BTC [-]
1435436;1458239946;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5697 @ 0.00041994 = 2.3924 BTC [-] {2} 
1435437;1458242790;BingoBoingo;<davout> danielpbarron: i may have an old ipnohe lying around if you ever feel like upgrading your blawg's hosting << I suggested "edgerouter lite" more OSen available than pogo to pick from
1435438;1458242951;trinque;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2770X3X.txt
1435439;1458242952;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjDiAE )
1435440;1458243087;trinque;deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2770X3X.txt
1435441;1458243088;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjDiAE )
1435442;1458243090;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1435443;1458243101;trinque;good bot
1435444;1458243693;trinque;alrighty! trb wallet deedbug fixed.
1435445;1458243719;trinque;the problem was txn malleation, which confuses the wallet
1435446;1458243742;trinque;thx to mod6 for the highs lows patch, using lows is helping deedbot- keep track of his dust
1435447;1458246210;mircea_popescu;trinque> thx to mod6 for the highs lows patch, using lows is helping deedbot- keep track of his dust << win.
1435448;1458248012;danielpbarron;!up Agentzeromobile
1435449;1458248026;Agentzeromobile;Hey thx !
1435450;1458248162;danielpbarron;yw, who are you?
1435451;1458248194;Agentzeromobile;Ag3nt_zer0
1435452;1458248216;trinque;;;seen ag3nt_zer0
1435453;1458248216;gribble;ag3nt_zer0 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 8 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 10 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <ag3nt_zer0> good morning b-a
1435454;1458248247;trinque;howdy, guy who claims to be ag3nt_zer0
1435455;1458248280;Agentzeromobile;Just saw a funny article wanted to post but not sure if I change tabs to copy if I will be disconnected... I'll try here goes... Maybe if I disappear you could revoice me when I come back?
1435456;1458248297;Agentzeromobile;Hey trinque haha it's me
1435457;1458248351;Agentzeromobile;http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/17/romanian-member-of-parliament-bribed-electorate-with-60-tonnes-of-fried-chicken/
1435458;1458248352;assbot;Two Years In Prison For Politician Who Bribed Voters With 60-Tonnes Of Fried Chicken ... ( http://bit.ly/1U9Kz6D )
1435459;1458248478;mircea_popescu;not exactly news this.
1435460;1458248492;mircea_popescu;i think i even said soemthing at some point about it.
1435461;1458248595;mircea_popescu;!up Agentzeromobilea
1435462;1458248599;Agentzeromobilea;Got kicked I think...
1435463;1458248602;deedbot-;[Qntra] EPA Goes To War Over Pond In Land Grab - http://qntra.net/2016/03/epa-goes-to-war-over-pond-in-land-grab/
1435464;1458248622;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo : "EPA Land Grab : War Over Pond!"
1435465;1458248629;Agentzeromobilea;Oh ok... Searched logs for fried chicken haha... Nothing
1435466;1458248652;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty
1435467;1458248659;mircea_popescu;wasn't this incident specifically. just, buying off rural/urban poor votes with refined sunflower oil / sugar / bla bla has been going on for decade plus.
1435468;1458248664;mircea_popescu;not just romania, either.
1435469;1458248720;Agentzeromobilea;Mr. Popescu was not an MP then, but was seeking re-election on a local council, reports the Telegraph.  Despite it not being a seat in the national parliament Mr. Popescu saw fit to give away 60,992 kg of “grilled chicken”, ordering it in bulk from a local business and sending campaign volunteers to collect and distribute the meat. The prosecutor told the court every package of chicken was “distributed for el
1435470;1458248723;Agentzeromobilea;Hehe
1435471;1458248805;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-03-2016#1421493
1435472;1458248805;assbot;Logged on 04-03-2016 02:31:01; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, romanians have been trading votes for years now. go in there with your smartphone, take pic of vote and id card, get 30 lei or w/e
1435473;1458248810;mircea_popescu;most recent
1435474;1458248856;asciilifeform;Mr. Popescu was not an MP then, << l0l
1435475;1458248873;asciilifeform;^ i can't help but wonder how this reads to peanut gallery !
1435476;1458248884;mircea_popescu;lol
1435477;1458248903;mircea_popescu;anyway, this derp must be new, i have never heard of him.
1435478;1458248910;mircea_popescu;his career must i guess have started after 2010
1435479;1458248931;Agentzeromobilea;Haha
1435480;1458248998;mircea_popescu;anyway. by and large, the "cleanning out corruption" narrative is what happens to a colonized place, ie, after the top leadership was defeated.
1435481;1458249014;mircea_popescu;it's how the shit played out in the us ; and the scheme is systematically repeated in every colony of the reich hence.
1435482;1458249041;mircea_popescu;purging of the middle level. next in line comes the "sensitivity" bs.
1435483;1458249068;mircea_popescu;if it weren't for the pesky armed insurection, iraq would be "cleanning up corruption" as we speak.
1435484;1458249133;mircea_popescu;in better looking news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/b0527dbcf047732b4e83faac8a83ac7d/tumblr_o0qzvuP7Yx1upevjso1_1280.jpg
1435485;1458249135;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U9LqnR )
1435486;1458249158;Agentzeromobilea;Anyone heard of or looked at this book America Betrayed by Dianne something?
1435487;1458249466;Agentzeromobilea;It's interesting, unless you are already familiar with this history... Likely in this room...
1435488;1458249552;Agentzeromobilea;Well good to say hello - thanks for the voicings!... Blessings upon your good works... See you later
1435489;1458249810;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1435490;1458249814;gribble;Current Blocks: 403124 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 75 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 13 hours, 14 minutes, and 7 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1435491;1458249820;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1435492;1458249826;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 417.76, vol: 3763.05047867 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 417.0, vol: 5896.82233 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 418.0, vol: 8521.177924850001 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 422.195992, vol: 27240.44380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 419.58, vol: 2039.12775141 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 422.603935, vol: 35.56503068 | Volume-weighted last average: 420.334635621
1435493;1458250926;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32201 @ 0.00041993 = 13.5222 BTC [-] {2} 
1435494;1458250987;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23849 @ 0.00041975 = 10.0106 BTC [-]
1435495;1458251533;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435187 << re this, i suppose i must point out that whatever i wrote must've been horribly mangled and deeply misunderstood (and i'd love to see exactly what quote ended up reprocessed into this).
1435496;1458251533;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 15:08:02; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu wrote about how s&m with 'safeword' is retarded
1435497;1458251533;mircea_popescu;the problem with safewords isn't that they're in-band to any degree. the problem with safewords is that they pretend to recast s/M relationships into a circus approximation. the submissive partner may not pretend to option as to when, or as to how the dominant partner extracts his pleasure out of his hide ; nor may (ipso facto inept) third parties purport to misrepresent any sexual relationship in terms other than stuf
1435498;1458251533;mircea_popescu;f occurring between a submissive and a dominant partner.
1435499;1458251534;mircea_popescu;"sex with safewords" is sex exactly in the sense the guy playing king richard in a theatrical production is king richard, the historical personage. "sex with safewords" is at best a brat's wet dream, and in general prostitution, in the vein of the pedicurist or hospital nurse's job - but in no case has anything to do with sex, nor can it occur among sane adults.
1435500;1458251540;mircea_popescu;it's what children do when they want to play house but are affraid of getting caught.
1435501;1458251595;mircea_popescu;and oddly related, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-11-2015#1319109
1435502;1458251595;assbot;Logged on 07-11-2015 02:21:19; mircea_popescu: "In the world where the media postulates social media as an absolute requirement of the modern era-- the era where everything is fetishized-- no one is permitted to make the distinction between a value and the picture of a value, they are made equivalent, so daring to criticize Randi's baby pictures is made to sound like misogyny or misobaby.  It's not. I love food but if you ask me to look at a pict
1435503;1458252305;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the in-band thing is not as separable from your point as you think.
1435504;1458252323;mircea_popescu;this argument is still open. i certainly see what you mean.
1435505;1458252329;mircea_popescu;but in the end, there's only one band.
1435506;1458252468;mircea_popescu;the concept of identifiably separate bands is as much a presumption about the "adversary" (properly said, of the context) as anything else.
1435507;1458252530;mircea_popescu;notably, the derpy gnupg manual indicates "telephone" as a out-of-band mechanism to verify key fingerprints. is this so ? since when until when ? did it work back when phones were still analog ? does it work now ? why / why not ? etc.
1435508;1458252544;asciilifeform;header says 'next 1,001 bytes is payload' and NOBODY ASKS PAYLOAD ANYTHING - is like proper sex.
1435509;1458252555;asciilifeform;magic character escape idiocies, a la clearsign, is 'safeword sex.'
1435510;1458252566;mircea_popescu;this i can get behind.
1435511;1458252568;asciilifeform;payload is a passive thing.
1435512;1458252576;asciilifeform;which is what i've been arguing for all along.
1435513;1458252585;mircea_popescu;but it is also subtly different from the general band discussion.
1435514;1458252607;asciilifeform;constraining the contents of the payload is evil.
1435515;1458252621;mircea_popescu;so no crc for you ?
1435516;1458252624;asciilifeform;and so is making the unwrapper stateful.
1435517;1458252629;asciilifeform;crc is a header thing.
1435518;1458252635;mircea_popescu;mno, crc is part of the payload ?
1435519;1458252643;asciilifeform;nope./
1435520;1458252649;asciilifeform;it is a function ~of~ the payload.
1435521;1458252653;mircea_popescu;i suppose it necessarily can be put in the header huh.
1435522;1458252655;asciilifeform;the latter can be arbitrary.
1435523;1458252657;mircea_popescu;myeah, ok.
1435524;1458252725;asciilifeform;the -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- crud is ~exactly~ a safeword.
1435525;1458252733;asciilifeform;and especially so are the - ----- idiocies.
1435526;1458252742;asciilifeform;and the winblowzated newlines.
1435527;1458252748;mircea_popescu;hey, i'm not defending any of that.
1435528;1458252761;asciilifeform;that's what clearsign is !
1435529;1458252773;asciilifeform;you necessarily cannot have it without such things.
1435530;1458252783;mircea_popescu;why not ? put a proper fucking header in there!
1435531;1458252788;mircea_popescu;this is where we left this discussion last time!
1435532;1458252814;asciilifeform;does fat lot of good given that just about all software mutilates line endings.
1435533;1458252834;mircea_popescu;here. first line, the line index where signature begins. second line, the line index where payload begins. third line, the line count of the whole shebang.
1435534;1458252835;mircea_popescu;done.
1435535;1458252851;mircea_popescu;this is no excuse. fuck bad software.
1435536;1458252862;mircea_popescu;i will NOT take bad implementations of ANYTHING into consideration when designing anything.
1435537;1458252874;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i distinctly recall suggesting a scheme quite like this.
1435538;1458252883;mircea_popescu;otherwise it's two steps to "but mp, some people are stupid, what should they do!"
1435539;1458252887;asciilifeform;it pointedly does NOT cover the case of signing non-printables.
1435540;1458252894;mircea_popescu;"fuck them, cook them and serve them to the pigs. fuck i care."
1435541;1458252913;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there may not exist "nonprintables". as per your own theory!
1435542;1458252914;asciilifeform;i wanna sign a tarball. or gif. now what.
1435543;1458252921;asciilifeform;non-7bitclean.
1435544;1458252928;asciilifeform;where there are no 'lines'.
1435545;1458252958;mircea_popescu;hash it and sign that.
1435546;1458252974;asciilifeform;no good.
1435547;1458252987;asciilifeform;we end up signing a hash of a human-readable hash
1435548;1458252997;mircea_popescu;huh ?
1435549;1458253106;asciilifeform;think.
1435550;1458253112;asciilifeform;you are narrowing your set.
1435551;1458253127;asciilifeform;which, in the case of a wonderful thing like keccak, is entirely no good.
1435552;1458253165;asciilifeform;and even in the case of sha2 is a waste.
1435553;1458253169;asciilifeform;it is entirely like whitening.
1435554;1458253170;mircea_popescu;i'm not about to give out the only workable way to make contracts since the fucking hansa
1435555;1458253177;mircea_popescu;so some shitboxes can do things with "code".
1435556;1458253181;asciilifeform;who said 'give out'
1435557;1458253191;asciilifeform;just has to be planted in a sane framework
1435558;1458253194;mircea_popescu;how are you going to preserve my clearsign ?
1435559;1458253197;asciilifeform;rather than the mutilatory lunacy.
1435560;1458253223;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: same way we preserve anything, you gotta figure out what aspects are actually essential to the thing, and which - are really accidents
1435561;1458253242;mircea_popescu;i can tell you. the text and the seal in the same place.
1435562;1458253250;asciilifeform;what means 'same place'.
1435563;1458253252;mircea_popescu;so no conveyance of one is possible without the other.
1435564;1458253268;asciilifeform;this is not actually true of gpg clearsign
1435565;1458253279;asciilifeform;i.e. any idiot can cut off the sig and convey payload without it
1435566;1458253292;asciilifeform;and ditto the opposite
1435567;1458253299;mircea_popescu;sure. any idiot can also cut off his head. so ?
1435568;1458253313;asciilifeform;but what specifically do you mean here
1435569;1458253319;asciilifeform;how is this a possible thing at all ?
1435570;1458253323;mircea_popescu;this "separate signature" thing is an abomination.
1435571;1458253335;asciilifeform;the signature is always physically separate
1435572;1458253352;asciilifeform;though hm
1435573;1458253355;mircea_popescu;in the sense your ballsac is physically separtate from your penis.
1435574;1458253365;mircea_popescu;anyway, i'm going to speak at a whore's convention. will bbl.
1435575;1458253366;mircea_popescu;hopefully.
1435576;1458253369;asciilifeform;actually!
1435577;1458253375;asciilifeform;distribute the exponentiated payload !111111
1435578;1458253381;asciilifeform;ding.
1435579;1458253382;asciilifeform;solved.
1435580;1458253395;asciilifeform;tell it to the whores!1111
1435581;1458253609;asciilifeform;however you cannot cat this to a line printer.
1435582;1458253622;asciilifeform;but NOTHING YOU CAN CAT TO LINE PRINTER IS BALLSACK-ATTACHED
1435583;1458253625;asciilifeform;this is intrinsic.
1435584;1458253629;asciilifeform;and pretending otherwise is lunacy.
1435585;1458253657;asciilifeform;a non-signed item is trivially derived from any signed item.
1435586;1458253666;asciilifeform;pretending otherwise is what the idiot watermark folks do.
1435587;1458253675;asciilifeform;!s what color are your bits
1435588;1458253675;assbot;2 results for 'what color are your bits' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=what+color+are+your+bits
1435589;1458253682;asciilifeform;^ and copyrasts, etc.
1435590;1458253709;asciilifeform;bits - have no colour. signature is necessarily a removable wrapper around a payload.
1435591;1458254060;asciilifeform;!up gabrielradio
1435592;1458254496;jurov;can't we have the signature just slapped to the end of payload?
1435593;1458254655;jurov;"the goal is to have whole piece" implies it is seekable, thus feasible to scan the file for signatures from the end
1435594;1458254704;jurov;without any payload mutilations
1435595;1458255589;asciilifeform;jurov: how do you know where the end is ??
1435596;1458255620;jurov;is a file with some size
1435597;1458255654;jurov;or we're getting rid of files, too?
1435598;1458255659;asciilifeform;jurov: this solves nothing, it merely flips the problem on its head
1435599;1458255676;asciilifeform;how does the pgptron know how big the signature is ?
1435600;1458255683;asciilifeform;let's say it is at the end.
1435601;1458255695;asciilifeform;this is just as problematic as agreeing that it is in the beginning of the file!
1435602;1458255736;asciilifeform;i get it, you can 'dwim' in your head, 'my eyes know how big it is' - but how does THE MACHINE know.
1435603;1458255782;jurov;this is unsolved problem?
1435604;1458255784;asciilifeform;this is not a trivial problem, and it has popped up in the past in various guises
1435605;1458255796;asciilifeform;e.g., the old mac os had dual-forked file system
1435606;1458255810;asciilifeform;where there was a separate body for 'metadata' and another for what we think of as the file
1435607;1458255828;asciilifeform;this was, iirc, abolished (though it reappeared in a perverted form in winblowz ntfs)
1435608;1458255861;asciilifeform;in unix file has name, but also, as everyone knows, epochal date and access perms
1435609;1458255875;asciilifeform;these are 'special' in the sense that fs stores them in designated places
1435610;1458255887;asciilifeform;it is not any more or less retarded than the old mac os forks.
1435611;1458255920;asciilifeform;but notice, at no point (since the dark ibm mainframe days anyway) did anyone suggest storing the access time, or perms, IN THE FILE proper
1435612;1458255924;asciilifeform;because this is RETARDED
1435613;1458255939;asciilifeform;you can't magic away the 'metadata' thing just by closing your eyes to it.
1435614;1458255942;asciilifeform;it is an actual thing.
1435615;1458255950;jurov;m$ office and their ilk does
1435616;1458255961;asciilifeform;the clinically sad are no concern of mine.
1435617;1458255974;asciilifeform;'feed'em to pigz' as mircea_popescu said.
1435618;1458256058;jurov;so your only "solution" is to force whole world to switch from bags of bytes to structured data?
1435619;1458256072;asciilifeform;what switch.
1435620;1458256076;asciilifeform;we already have structure.
1435621;1458256081;asciilifeform;i propose - SANE STRUCTURE
1435622;1458256096;asciilifeform;picture fs with a way to attach seals, say
1435623;1458256102;asciilifeform;instead of idiocies like access time
1435624;1458256119;asciilifeform;(it isn't useless, but a whole chunk of fs for them?!1)
1435625;1458256122;jurov;xattrs do exist
1435626;1458256136;jurov;but we're taling about exchanging stuff over internet
1435627;1458256145;jurov;*talking
1435628;1458256148;asciilifeform;aha and for that we do binary formats
1435629;1458256153;asciilifeform;but mircea_popescu wants his fried ice
1435630;1458256160;asciilifeform;i.e. something he can cat to a line printer
1435631;1458256183;asciilifeform;( ... and then somehow type back in, and have the sig pass ??????)
1435632;1458256208;asciilifeform;incidentally anybody who actually tries the latter with pgp, is stuck with mutilated line endings
1435633;1458256243;asciilifeform;because - guess what - a CR/LF, LF, or CR - LOOK THE SAME on the page.
1435634;1458256336;asciilifeform;and every time i try to explain to him that his notion of 'text' is ill-defined and the actual mechanics, as implemented in unix world and elsewhere, are malignantly retarded
1435635;1458256337;jurov;i guess he wants to sign semantics, not syntax.
1435636;1458256357;asciilifeform;then he ought sign s-expressions.
1435637;1458256394;asciilifeform;where the thing actually gets parsed out before the bignums are exponentiated
1435638;1458256419;asciilifeform;so, e.g., spaces, are not represented as merely a byte but a #\Space
1435639;1458256437;asciilifeform;this is the ultimate in 'in-band'. mega-ugly.
1435640;1458256507;jurov;no, he wants everything converted to plain english. maybe even 5-bit code without support for newline characters.
1435641;1458256520;jurov;and then sign that
1435642;1458256540;asciilifeform;any way you cut it, trying to use a naked unix terminal for this is lunacy
1435643;1458256553;asciilifeform;it only APPEARS to work for gpg
1435644;1458256564;asciilifeform;at the cost of gpg being utterly retarded in 101 ways
1435645;1458256588;asciilifeform;i.e. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435524
1435646;1458256588;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 22:12:05; asciilifeform: the -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- crud is ~exactly~ a safeword.
1435647;1458256638;asciilifeform;we need a word for this kind of thing
1435648;1458256657;asciilifeform;the act of carrying on in a belied that a CONCEPTUALY BUGGY system is a working item
1435649;1458256665;asciilifeform;merely because you have not explored the edge cases that break it
1435650;1458256677;asciilifeform;(or, shamefully, explored, or had your face rubbed in them, and then forgot)
1435651;1458256684;asciilifeform;*belief
1435652;1458256735;*;asciilifeform bbl.
1435653;1458256804;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> jurov: how do you know where the end is ?? << You run out of tape and have to flip it to the other side
1435654;1458257519;mod6;got my treeware SICP and ADA ref manual today.
1435655;1458257563;mod6;danielpbarron: thanks for writing that up on your blog.  the job is yours if you want it.  i'll write up something formal and we can go from there.
1435656;1458257580;mod6;be a few days or something. will let you know.  cheers!
1435657;1458261754;phf;hfs+ still has forks, except now they have some ~monster~ xattr resourcefork hybrid
1435658;1458261852;phf;befs was tight in that respect, where they blend xattr and file contents, and then build all tools with metadata support upfront, so you could have a folder full of mp3s and they would come up as song-name, song-title, date, etc.
1435659;1458261853;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309 << obligatory oldie
1435660;1458261855;assbot;Loper OS » No Formats, no Format Wars. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DG9cuX )
1435661;1458261858;phf;or email for that matter
1435662;1458261901;phf;beos email client was a thing to download mail and the thing to view/compose. everything else was handled by file manager
1435663;1458261977;asciilifeform;this was a step towards the Right Thing.
1435664;1458263240;TomServo;!up AaronvanW
1435665;1458263334;jurov;http://dpaste.com/3CYDMQH BingoBoingo: not 100% fresh but should be still qntrable
1435666;1458263335;assbot;dpaste: 3CYDMQH: qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ua0HVz )
1435667;1458263681;danielpbarron;mod6, sure thing!
1435668;1458266859;BingoBoingo;ty jurov
1435669;1458266877;BingoBoingo;should hit the deedbutt shortly
1435670;1458266922;deedbot-;[Qntra] EU Marching Towards "Helicopter Money" As Other Manipulations Are Exhausted - http://qntra.net/2016/03/eu-marching-towards-helicopter-money-as-other-manipulations-are-exhausted/
1435671;1458266932;punkman;http://europe.newsweek.com/robots-sent-fukushima-have-died-435332?
1435672;1458266933;assbot;The Robots Sent Into Fukushima Have 'Died' ... ( http://bit.ly/1RpQMo6 )
1435673;1458267318;BingoBoingo;In REAL AMERICA news, just for alf https://archive.is/ezrHo
1435674;1458267324;punkman;jurov: I dun get it
1435675;1458267358;BingoBoingo;punkman: Don't get what?
1435676;1458267371;punkman;the article
1435677;1458267395;BingoBoingo;punkman: European central bank is likely going to do money direct to consumers
1435678;1458267418;BingoBoingo;OH I stripped out the links
1435679;1458267430;asciilifeform;lavalulz: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-March/028669.html
1435680;1458267431;assbot;[Cryptography] Lavabit's and Snowden's Solos ... ( http://bit.ly/1TSwPgf )
1435681;1458267437;punkman;BingoBoingo: yeah that might help
1435682;1458267486;BingoBoingo;k punkman try nao
1435683;1458267522;asciilifeform;'I did fight things out in court. It just occurred in secret, and while a proper description would require the use of vulgarity, I'll summarize by saying I was railroaded. The length of time between when I received the PRTT order, and when I was found in contempt (ex parte) was about 5 weeks. For comparison the /median /time between filing and disposition of a civil contempt charge in federal court during 2013 was 6 /months/.'
1435684;1458267526;BingoBoingo;"The health department said the fate of the bull would be left to the family." << Note, being a Bull means you get out of USG law racket sometimes
1435685;1458267652;asciilifeform;'we are entitled to everyone's plain text data, and if Congress won't give it to us, we'll use our 27.1 billion dollar budget, and army of 100K lawyers to take it in court. Your tax dollars at work.'
1435686;1458267695;punkman;asciilifeform: plain text? they already had that
1435687;1458267713;asciilifeform;see link.
1435688;1458268077;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435672 << designing arbitrarily rad-hard waldo is not so hard - use hydraulic actuators for everything. and what's more, it would ~happen~ if, instead of dead robot leading to a lucrative extension of contract, the designer were marched to clean the reactor ~personally~.
1435689;1458268077;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 02:08:53; assbot: The Robots Sent Into Fukushima Have 'Died' ... ( http://bit.ly/1RpQMo6 )
1435690;1458268226;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435673 << i kinda wonder re: casualties of bull vs tractor
1435691;1458268226;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 02:15:18; BingoBoingo: In REAL AMERICA news, just for alf https://archive.is/ezrHo
1435692;1458268254;BingoBoingo;That depends on the will of the bull versus the skill of the tractor
1435693;1458268262;BingoBoingo;I imagine
1435694;1458268268;asciilifeform;what do american farmers typically die of on he job?
1435695;1458268280;asciilifeform;*the
1435696;1458268302;BingoBoingo;Often they suffocate in silos full of grain and silo gasses
1435697;1458268306;asciilifeform;boredom?
1435698;1458268316;BingoBoingo;Or get ripped up by power take offs
1435699;1458268356;BingoBoingo;;;google grain silo suffocation
1435700;1458268357;gribble;Hazard Alert: Dangers of Engulfment and Suffocation in Grain Bins: <https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/grainhandling/hazard_alert.html>; Grain entrapment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_entrapment>; Suffocation Hazards in Grain Bins - UK College of Agriculture: <http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/aen/aen39/aen39.pdf>
1435701;1458268362;asciilifeform;i can't speak for the farmers, but i would take the bull over boredom.
1435702;1458268373;asciilifeform;and in fact, their work over mine.
1435703;1458268381;BingoBoingo;;;google pto hazards
1435704;1458268382;gribble;Hazards of the PTO on Farm Tractors - Alabama Cooperative ...: <http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1262/ANR-1262.pdf>; Power Take-Off (PTO) Safety (also available in Spanish ...: <http://extension.psu.edu/agsafety/vehicles-and-machinery/tractor-safety/e33>; Know the Dangers of a PTO - Gempler's: <https://www.gemplers.com/docs/tailgate-training-tip-sheets/9-pto-danger-en.pdf>
1435705;1458268455;BingoBoingo;;;google us farm deaths
1435706;1458268456;gribble;CDC - Agricultural Safety - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic: <http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/aginjury/>; Death on the Farm - Modern Farmer: <http://modernfarmer.com/2014/06/farm-deaths/>; OSHA Fact Sheet: Farm Safety: <http://ehs.okstate.edu/training/oshafarm.htm>
1435707;1458268514;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435703 << recall the very picturesque lathe accident photos in the logz?
1435708;1458268514;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 02:33:01; BingoBoingo: ;;google pto hazards
1435709;1458268514;BingoBoingo;http://modernfarmer.com/2014/06/farm-deaths/ << "His jeans caught on a piece of manure-pumping equipment and, in the blink of an eye, his leg was connected to his torso by a mere inch of flesh. "
1435710;1458268515;assbot;Death on the Farm - Modern Farmer ... ( http://bit.ly/1TSyuSM )
1435711;1458268518;asciilifeform;same idea.
1435712;1458268538;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, a tractor's PTO generally provides more power for the mangling
1435713;1458268569;asciilifeform;there is a mega-classic one of a whole man wrapped up on the lathe, like a rope.
1435714;1458268639;asciilifeform;just when you thought you've seen every possible mangled corpse - surprise!!1111
1435715;1458268643;BingoBoingo;!s lathe accident
1435716;1458268644;assbot;0 results for 'lathe accident' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lathe+accident
1435717;1458268654;asciilifeform;hm.
1435718;1458268681;asciilifeform;googleimages it.
1435719;1458268699;asciilifeform;(or not.)
1435720;1458268786;BingoBoingo;I'll get around to it
1435721;1458269935;deedbot-;[Qntra] Woe: Getting Business Internet A Challenge In Heart Of Silicon Valley - http://qntra.net/2016/03/woe-getting-business-internet-a-challenge-in-heart-of-silicon-valley/
1435722;1458270515;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1435723;1458270519;gribble;Current Blocks: 403160 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 39 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 hours, 38 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1435724;1458271056;punkman;speaking of "casualties of bull vs tractor"  http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/13/the-macabre-truth-of-gun-control-in-the-us-is-that-toddlers-kill-more-people-than-terrorists-do
1435725;1458271057;assbot;The macabre truth of gun control in the US is that toddlers kill more people than terrorists do | Lindy West | Opinion | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ro1iT0 )
1435726;1458271697;BingoBoingo;punkman: For the record the author of that piece on the Toddler problem is a notorious hamplanet of ~400 pounds
1435727;1458271745;BingoBoingo;Creature given its initial platform by Gawker Media's "Jezebel" fat rights blog
1435728;1458272289;BingoBoingo;https://i.imgur.com/kX7Hyv8.jpg
1435729;1458272290;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1nSWXt0 )
1435730;1458273165;asciilifeform;l0l!!
1435731;1458274860;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432214 << mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: this was all very rude and uncalled for, my apologies
1435732;1458274860;assbot;Logged on 14-03-2016 15:57:06; ben_vulpes: bitbet is dead.
1435733;1458274927;asciilifeform;not dead, but in a coma.
1435734;1458275152;ben_vulpes;i don't see how it can continue without mods and hosting on the books.
1435735;1458275227;pete_dushenski;then bitbet needs a 5% rake. problem solved ?
1435736;1458276327;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes s'okay, you;'re young and all.
1435737;1458276481;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435577 << how'd this go ?
1435738;1458276481;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 22:22:55; asciilifeform: distribute the exponentiated payload !111111
1435739;1458276501;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435694 << heart attack. at least the men. they become accustomed to wholesome and hearty diets in their active years, which they have a hard time foregoing in their later years, despite increasingly sedentary lifestyles. ticker eventually calls it quits.
1435740;1458276501;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 02:31:08; asciilifeform: what do american farmers typically die of on he job?
1435741;1458276513;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435593 << check out jurov, he understands commerce!
1435742;1458276513;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 22:44:15; jurov: "the goal is to have whole piece" implies it is seekable, thus feasible to scan the file for signatures from the end
1435743;1458276709;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: i should further clarify that 'active years' were, regardless of the farmer's age, up until about 20 years ago. the size of farms have grown exponentially of late, hand-in-hand with the increased cost of inputs and the decreased price of outputs.
1435744;1458276808;pete_dushenski;til draghi is a woman!
1435745;1458276858;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435633 << i don't use heretic conventions. /n ftw.
1435746;1458276858;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 23:10:43; asciilifeform: because - guess what - a CR/LF, LF, or CR - LOOK THE SAME on the page.
1435747;1458276890;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435640 << pretty much!
1435748;1458276890;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 23:15:07; jurov: no, he wants everything converted to plain english. maybe even 5-bit code without support for newline characters.
1435749;1458276905;pete_dushenski;ecb wanted to keep up with feds but weren't nearing election (or selection) so they transgendered the poor sob
1435750;1458276917;mircea_popescu;a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature  ; c) that can also be verified by hand ; d) in the same item.
1435751;1458276944;pete_dushenski;sounds reasonable
1435752;1458276951;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435644 << yes, but the problerm needs fixing, not replacing with worse problem.
1435753;1458276951;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 23:16:04; asciilifeform: at the cost of gpg being utterly retarded in 101 ways
1435754;1458277064;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: assuming: betbet revenue is 100x divs (fault in several ways), and 2500 hours of time, and 0.4% of bitbet revenue to mods implies a .18 btc/hr mod rate. perverse incentive, though.
1435755;1458277069;mircea_popescu;jurov ftr, "specie" in english means gold bullion. it's unadvisable to use in the context you do.
1435756;1458277108;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes a simple way to address the problem is put in a fixed per-bet fee, of say .2 or .3 or w/e, and make bet minimum 1 or somesuch.
1435757;1458277141;mircea_popescu;jurov is the mario draghi "she" deliberate ?
1435758;1458277172;mircea_popescu;also, it wouldn't be "bucks", it'd be gyeuros.
1435759;1458277194;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: if mods are to be paid in any fashion, it ought to be bbet shares.
1435760;1458277223;pete_dushenski;1k shares per resolution or something
1435761;1458277232;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: a) why is that and b) out of whose piggy?
1435762;1458277250;mircea_popescu;shares just means dilution. it's not necessarily a bad idea, use qntra experience.
1435763;1458277329;pete_dushenski;^
1435764;1458277344;ben_vulpes;aha
1435765;1458277382;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435683 <<< usg has "magistrate judges" ie, stalin's police "judicial powers" for this very purpose.
1435766;1458277382;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 02:18:42; asciilifeform: 'I did fight things out in court. It just occurred in secret, and while a proper description would require the use of vulgarity, I'll summarize by saying I was railroaded. The length of time between when I received the PRTT order, and when I was found in contempt (ex parte) was about 5 weeks. For comparison the /median /time between filing and disposition of a civil contempt charge in federal court du
1435767;1458277418;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435685 << except 27 trn doesn't begin to matter in this discussion.
1435768;1458277418;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 02:20:52; asciilifeform: 'we are entitled to everyone's plain text data, and if Congress won't give it to us, we'll use our 27.1 billion dollar budget, and army of 100K lawyers to take it in court. Your tax dollars at work.'
1435769;1458277425;ben_vulpes;bitbet under ddos?
1435770;1458277467;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: bbet share payment also avoids the issue of mods dragging their heels in resolving a sticky situation, as per hour fees would. share payment also puts skin in the game and flat-rate payment incentives efficiency.
1435771;1458277529;ben_vulpes;mhm.
1435772;1458277583;mircea_popescu;qntra model really taught us a lot. only thing is... came years after original bitbet.
1435773;1458277752;ben_vulpes;heh
1435774;1458277756;ben_vulpes;"gotta dilute something!"
1435775;1458277774;mircea_popescu;it's not entirely unwarranted. mods do contribute value.
1435776;1458277804;mircea_popescu;dilution matching contribution is mere growth, quite healthy.
1435777;1458277810;mircea_popescu;or so the theory goes, at any rate.
1435778;1458278911;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435755 << twas an edit of mine, my bad
1435779;1458278911;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 04:57:49; mircea_popescu: jurov ftr, "specie" in english means gold bullion. it's unadvisable to use in the context you do.
1435780;1458278980;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435757<< Also me, I needed to pick a pronoun and feminism'd it
1435781;1458278980;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 04:59:01; mircea_popescu: jurov is the mario draghi "she" deliberate ?
1435782;1458279047;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: could the digest be a tool for node operators to ensure access to miners?
1435783;1458279060;ben_vulpes;s/tool/constraint
1435784;1458279734;mircea_popescu;how do you mean ben_vulpes  ?
1435785;1458279902;ben_vulpes;if nonce demand is kept high enough, anyone operating a node that can produce digests has something of value to miners.
1435786;1458279911;mircea_popescu;yes, that's the idea.
1435787;1458279956;ben_vulpes;and if the two parties are engaged in commerce, at least there must be an open channel to those consuming the digests.
1435788;1458279971;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1435789;1458279981;ben_vulpes;a route around the sybils perhaps?
1435790;1458279996;mircea_popescu;i don't credit the "sybils quam sybils" theory.
1435791;1458280097;BingoBoingo;!up Alopex
1435792;1458280100;BingoBoingo;!up pigeons
1435793;1458280348;mircea_popescu;it;s nothing short of saying "the clouds must be painted on the firmament because they are seen and the parsimonious explanation of all thigns seen is painting".
1435794;1458280372;mircea_popescu;clouds have a function beyond their perceptible form ; "sybils" means nothing other than the cartel.
1435795;1458281216;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1435796;1458281220;gribble;Current Blocks: 403178 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 21 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 31 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1435797;1458284229;BingoBoingo;https://i.imgur.com/DfvMjID.gifv
1435798;1458284230;assbot;Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/21yEDCV )
1435799;1458284234;BingoBoingo;!up tych0
1435800;1458289237;BingoBoingo;!up qntranet
1435801;1458298079;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00041975 = 4.7012 BTC [-] {2} 
1435802;1458299591;deedbot-;[fr.anco.is] BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/
1435803;1458299707;davout;kakobrekla: ^
1435804;1458299718;davout;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/
1435805;1458299719;assbot;BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1R82OmO )
1435806;1458299719;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1435807;1458300536;jurov;BingoBoingo: better make yourself an author if you do such extensive changes
1435808;1458300691;BingoBoingo;jurov: Sorry, I've added a note http://qntra.net/2016/03/eu-marching-towards-helicopter-money-as-other-manipulations-are-exhausted/#comment-48935
1435809;1458300692;assbot;EU Marching Towards "Helicopter Money" As Other Manipulations Are Exhausted | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22oG0cX )
1435810;1458300717;jurov;ok, ty
1435811;1458302198;shinohai;https://dashtalk.org/threads/darkcoin-company-busted.8381/   <<< is that a little old lady in that pic?
1435812;1458302199;assbot;Darkcoin.company BUSTED !! | DashTalk ... ( http://bit.ly/22oGxM2 )
1435813;1458302866;BingoBoingo;http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/26apr13/4.jpg
1435814;1458302870;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1XzVNiu )
1435815;1458303225;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435750<< we never had this.
1435816;1458303225;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:17; mircea_popescu: a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature  ; c) that can also be verified by hand ; d) in the same item.
1435817;1458303282;asciilifeform;( and if it must be had, the text is liable to look like a chimera of the talmud and nazi telex !11)
1435818;1458303332;shinohai;;;ticker --market all
1435819;1458303339;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.78, vol: 3292.33562821 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.281, vol: 5136.5319 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.47, vol: 9471.992610630001 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 420.2, vol: 1.68670123 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 417.492968, vol: 32362.02050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.157, vol: 2359.4455159 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.5235, vol: 63.25511783 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1435820;1458303343;shinohai;;;more
1435821;1458303344;gribble;416.1200874
1435822;1458303500;deedbot-;[Qntra] Bitcoin Network Difficulty Up ~4.46 % - http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitcoin-network-difficulty-up-4-46/
1435823;1458303572;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435752 << a good chunk of the retardation is a ~result~ of the clearsign thing.
1435824;1458303572;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:51; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435644 << yes, but the problerm needs fixing, not replacing with worse problem.
1435825;1458303636;asciilifeform;also i would like to watch mp or anyone actually ~do~ the 'hand verify' thing.
1435826;1458303681;BingoBoingo;More weather on the road to Forknarok https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7575
1435827;1458303723;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435794 << ftr i utterly fail to grasp how he made this leap
1435828;1458303723;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 05:52:52; mircea_popescu: clouds have a function beyond their perceptible form ; "sybils" means nothing other than the cartel.
1435829;1458304066;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435816 << the other objectionable thing is how mircea_popescu 'jwz's 'eye-readable' to mean 'existing software, and particularly unix cat'
1435830;1458304066;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 12:13:45; assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:17; mircea_popescu: a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature  ; c) that can also be verified by hand ; d) in the same item.
1435831;1458304087;asciilifeform;which are pointedly ~not~ logically equivalent
1435832;1458304204;asciilifeform;and yes, if you want hand-verify, you gotta have the talmud-style line checksums.
1435833;1458304252;asciilifeform;(and exclude newlines from the hash entirely, and other demented things)
1435834;1458305653;BingoBoingo;http://media.dumpert.nl/foto/f51a8fa1_IMG_1791.png.png
1435835;1458305654;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqE4oX )
1435836;1458306009;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00041975 = 1.9309 BTC [-]
1435837;1458307504;jurov;asciilifeform: if he is fine with serially connecting elements with wildly variable resistances to 300V, no wonder he's fine with many other interesting things :)
1435838;1458307649;*;BingoBoingo always imagined low power colo working off of DC straight from batteries
1435839;1458308226;BingoBoingo;Get power to batteries however, one it's in the batteries dice it up and feed to machines as appropriate
1435840;1458308379;jurov;even batteries are advised not to be massively serially connected, you know
1435841;1458308490;jurov;plus, high voltage DC is more dangerous to humans than AC, plus harder to extinguish arcs
1435842;1458308560;fluffypony;yeah DC will kill you
1435843;1458308564;fluffypony;AC will just annoy you
1435844;1458308768;solrodar;mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: davout does indeed seem to be better qualified than me
1435845;1458308799;solrodar;but before it gets written into a contract I want to question why we're presuming that bills are more senior than bettor funds
1435846;1458308827;BingoBoingo;Also in Davout's favor is he parted out and closed a contentious property before after he acquired Instawallet and discovered it to be toxic. He's got experience dealing with the aggro.
1435847;1458308923;BingoBoingo;<jurov> even batteries are advised not to be massively serially connected, you know << Well, I imagined massively parallel FeNi banks. linked to get target voltages. Abuse however just so long as you remember to water them.
1435848;1458308951;BingoBoingo;And there's even automatic watering systems available for that part
1435849;1458309036;BingoBoingo;In other news, today is closing arguments for Hulk Hogan v. Gawker
1435850;1458309249;shinohai;http://boards.4chan.org/biz/thread/1145795/after-missing-the-eth-train-i-just-took-out-a   <<< nice
1435851;1458309251;assbot;/biz/ - After missing the Eth train, I just took out a $10 - Business & Finance - 4chan ... ( http://bit.ly/258IIlZ )
1435852;1458309302;davout;solrodar: unless the liquidator bill is senior he has no guarantee to be paid, in which case...
1435853;1458309317;solrodar;that one yes
1435854;1458309344;solrodar;but why necessarily other ones?
1435855;1458309479;mircea_popescu;davout yup saw pingback.
1435856;1458309599;mircea_popescu;solrodar bills are senior because in general for the same general reason. you don't pay electricity, bankrupt or not, you can't have the lights on. receiver still has to work.
1435857;1458309637;solrodar;there are no lights
1435858;1458309641;solrodar;the site is dead
1435859;1458309663;mircea_popescu;...
1435860;1458309679;solrodar;and the only bill in question is of course your bill for 17 BTC
1435861;1458309687;mircea_popescu;"i just disproved a general consideration by my misinterpretation of a particular" you say ?
1435862;1458309695;solrodar;if that is rejected or haircut, it doesn't impede the liquidator's work
1435863;1458309723;mircea_popescu;you can't base your judgement about what to do with a category on the basis of what you know or "can imagine" in terms of examples from that category.
1435864;1458309744;mircea_popescu;that's why black people aren't "naturally thieves" irrespective what black people you can personally summon to mind.
1435865;1458309767;solrodar;so you're saying there's a general principle in liquidation that all claims by suppliers and employees are senior to all claims by customers?
1435866;1458309839;mircea_popescu;by and large.
1435867;1458309851;nubbins`;<+solrodar>but before it gets written into a contract I want to question why we're presuming that bills are more senior than bettor funds << i want to question why you used "we"
1435868;1458309856;mircea_popescu;fiat practice is indeed vast and in time it has grown fragmented and oft contradictory.
1435869;1458310030;solrodar;since when do you follow fiat practice?
1435870;1458310057;mircea_popescu;if you ask "there's a general principle in liquidation" you are necessarily asking about fiat practice, there not being another practice in the field.
1435871;1458310152;solrodar;ok, but it's obviously a principle you wish to adopt
1435872;1458310210;solrodar;if the only argument is "receiver still has to work", then it only applies to claims the receiver must pay in order to do his work
1435873;1458310225;BingoBoingo;solrodar: Since the reciever's aim is recovering the maximum value from where it can, ideally they pay the bills to not injure the brand anymore than it has been by ending up in recievership.
1435874;1458310232;mircea_popescu;wow check out the darkcoin thing
1435875;1458310251;BingoBoingo;;;google site:qntra.net darkcoin
1435876;1458310252;gribble;Darkcoin: Value Drops while going Open Source | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2014/10/darkcoin-value-drops-while-going-open-source/>; Qntra | Reporting the Intersection of Bitcoin, Technology, and Politics ...: <http://qntra.net/page/106/?action=prodinfo&cat_id=6&prod=10>; Paxful Gets Desperate, Priced Out Of Bitcoin | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2015/12/paxful-gets-desperate/>
1435877;1458310277;solrodar;BingoBoingo: not paying customers injures the brand a lot more than not paying mircea_popescu
1435878;1458310296;mircea_popescu;solrodar the receiver has the option to set aside bills anyway, so that's not much of a practical consideration.
1435879;1458310317;solrodar;true, but I would suggest it not be written in stone at this stage
1435880;1458310326;BingoBoingo;solrodar: Ideally everyone gets paid maximally. Bills and customers both are bounded liabilities.
1435881;1458310339;mircea_popescu;seniority is principally important so as to give the receiver the option, not the obligation, to pay things NOW, rather than promise to pay after he pays someone else.
1435882;1458310356;davout;solrodar: which is why i haven't written it in stone, in case you did not notice
1435883;1458310362;mircea_popescu;this neatly matches the ability of suppliers to cut the spaghetti NOW as opposed to the customers' ability to basically whine moar.
1435884;1458310383;solrodar;davout: "payment of the liabilities on a best-effort basis, ordered by priority (certified bills, bet winnings & refunds, shareholders)"
1435885;1458310390;solrodar;I suppose that could be read as not being an ordered list
1435886;1458310392;mircea_popescu;and in general this inept "mp said something ; i said something else because i'm just as much a X as mp" is the font of ineptitude.
1435887;1458310410;mircea_popescu;you wanna argue against something i said, do yourself and especially your posterity the favour of coming with eighteen armored divisions.
1435888;1458310420;mircea_popescu;of gold plated solid arguments.
1435889;1458310439;davout;solrodar: well, how about you think of a bitcoin transaction fee as a certified bill? it is necessary to pay it for the receiver to be able to actually bettors for example
1435890;1458310449;davout;*pay bettors
1435891;1458310489;solrodar;I agree
1435892;1458310511;solrodar;but as I said, if the only argument is "receiver still has to work", then it only applies to claims the receiver must pay in order to do his work
1435893;1458310520;mircea_popescu;do you read what's being said ?
1435894;1458310548;solrodar;yes, and I don't see where you responded to that point
1435895;1458310554;mircea_popescu;motherfucker.
1435896;1458310557;mircea_popescu;!down solrodar
1435897;1458310562;mircea_popescu;pfff.
1435898;1458310598;solrodar;I have only 0.2 BTC of outstanding bets, so this isn't really a conflict of interest for me
1435899;1458310617;mircea_popescu;two things, read them outloud to yourself. 1. if A is a class senior to B, then receiver MAY NOT proceed to pay B until he has disposed of A entirely. therefore suppliers MUST be in A and cusomters in B, BECAUSE customers can do nothing to injure the bankrupt concern,. whereas the suppliers can.
1435900;1458310634;mircea_popescu;this flows from the definition of the term supplier (comes before the company on the flow) and customer (comes after).
1435901;1458310643;solrodar;who says all suppliers must be in the same class?
1435902;1458310671;mircea_popescu;and 2. IF you want to argue against something i said, do yourself the favour and BRING VERY GOOD ARGUMENTS. because your own personal word will count for nothing much, and you'll just make a clown out of yourself.
1435903;1458310775;*;mircea_popescu notes bitterly that the chinese ARE fucking prosecuting their own bfl, unlike the usg faggots.
1435904;1458310785;mircea_popescu;and if i'm reading this correctly there may well be death sentences ?
1435905;1458310786;PeterL;solrodar they didn't say all suppliers must be in the same class, the receiver has the option to classify suppliers as urgent/non-urgent
1435906;1458310833;solrodar;yes, but if davout's list is read as an ordered list then it still says that all suppliers are senior to all bettors
1435907;1458310834;PeterL;but in order to have that flexibility, suppliers as a class must be senior to customers as a class
1435908;1458310845;solrodar;if he says it's not an ordered list then that's fine
1435909;1458310870;solrodar;URGENT suppliers must be senior to customers
1435910;1458310878;solrodar;who says all suppliers must be in the same class?
1435911;1458310882;PeterL;you don't seem to grasp the must pay first/can pay first difference
1435912;1458310906;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Free State Project Triggered - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/free-state-project-triggered/
1435913;1458310964;PeterL;well, it is up to the receiver to classify things
1435914;1458311015;solrodar;yes, so I'm simply saying that the receiver's contract should not presume any particular classification
1435915;1458311068;solrodar;whereas davout's post does appear to do so
1435916;1458311087;BingoBoingo;<solrodar> yes, so I'm simply saying that the receiver's contract should not presume any particular classification << The reciever may end up rejecting some claims by suppliers, but the MUST be *considered* first
1435917;1458311153;solrodar;considered yes, and possibly then downgraded to be at the same level as bettors?
1435918;1458311200;mircea_popescu;"if you didn't need to pay him as a supplier, fuck him". how's the receiver to justify this "downgrade" ?
1435919;1458311246;solrodar;because you still haven't shown why a non-urgent supplier should take priority over a customer
1435920;1458311254;solrodar;or why all suppliers are necessarily in the same class
1435921;1458311255;mircea_popescu;but ftr it's slowly dawning on me just how god damned ~HARD~ it is to speak in the forum. all sorts of separations, between descriptive and prescriptive, between time ; between causes and effects, between roles and hierarchies... jesus god how does anyone even keep it straight.
1435922;1458311297;solrodar;I deeply apologize
1435923;1458311304;mircea_popescu;solrodar i am not entertaining your concepts of "non-urgent", and so i won't be showing anything about them.
1435924;1458311337;mircea_popescu;they're not required by the model, and there's no indication they add justifiable complexity ; not to mention they're not even defined, or by all appearances definable.
1435925;1458311359;mircea_popescu;and yes, I don't intend to follow fiat practice in THIS particular respect : that it's always willing to add complexity for the sake of satisfying fee-fees.
1435926;1458311361;mircea_popescu;never, that.
1435927;1458311387;solrodar;well, if the receiver has discretion to reject claims then he also should have discretion to determine the seniority of claims
1435928;1458311391;BingoBoingo;solrodar: Are you familiar with the "mechanics lien"
1435929;1458311399;solrodar;it can be as complex or as non-complex as he wishes
1435930;1458311402;solrodar;BingoBoingo: yes
1435931;1458311405;mircea_popescu;why not have discretion to also determine the count of bitcoin in existence, while at it.
1435932;1458311452;solrodar;BingoBoingo: who are you suggesting has one in this case?
1435933;1458311469;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo is this getting people to read up on the complex topic of patrimonial dispositions or prior art ?
1435934;1458311518;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Both
1435935;1458311529;mircea_popescu;pretty cool.
1435936;1458311584;BingoBoingo;solrodar: I'm suggesting it as a rabbit hole to read moar on to understand how complex the matter of claims is, not strictly legally but morally
1435937;1458311594;mircea_popescu;you mean equitably.
1435938;1458311609;mircea_popescu;hence "court of equity".
1435939;1458311649;BingoBoingo;Aha
1435940;1458311664;mircea_popescu;lol davout while i'm the first friend of humor, or so i like to think, that two weeks tm can't stand there. it can readily be interpreted to mean forever, and that just can't be.
1435941;1458311668;BingoBoingo;that is an actual moral question
1435942;1458311680;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo what's your definition of "moral" here ?
1435943;1458311698;BingoBoingo;morality is the just conduct of business
1435944;1458311713;mircea_popescu;rules of conduct are called broadly ethics.
1435945;1458311727;BingoBoingo;Sure
1435946;1458311760;mircea_popescu;how to act correctly (ethics) ; how to satisfy the will of gods (morals) ; how to run your business (equity).
1435947;1458311782;solrodar;BingoBoingo: indeed it is complex, and so if bettors have to take a haircut because mircea_popescu is senior, then that's fine, as long as there's a justification for it
1435948;1458311795;solrodar;"mircea_popescu says so, and you're an idiot" is not a justification
1435949;1458311798;BingoBoingo;solrodar: I'm not necessarily suggesting that
1435950;1458311801;mircea_popescu;actually, yes, it is.
1435951;1458311842;mircea_popescu;before we go back to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#792159
1435952;1458311842;assbot;Logged on 12-08-2014 02:20:21; TimSwanson: That's not how debates work
1435953;1458311852;*;danielpbarron nods
1435954;1458311881;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Until I finish a religious tract Imma just treat satisfying the will of the gods as alternately a question of conduct and business
1435955;1458311891;mircea_popescu;aite then.
1435956;1458311908;mircea_popescu;methinks this may make you a jew.
1435957;1458311944;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Well If I really am a sunni I gotta take from the Jews and the Christians, because that's how history works
1435958;1458311953;mircea_popescu;that's a point.
1435959;1458312014;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: Speaking of this topic, can you spin up a justification of Obesity being a Cardinal sin as if Man is created in God's image defiling oneself with obesity is akin to defiling God?
1435960;1458312028;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: Or do I need a different species of scholarship for that
1435961;1458312035;mircea_popescu;i must say i'm pretty impressed with this darkcoin thing and with the chinese govt generally. a) no idiotic derpage a la "bitlicense" ; b) actually prosecute scammers.
1435962;1458312043;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo gluttony.
1435963;1458312057;mircea_popescu;it is a cardinal sin already, no spinning needed.
1435964;1458312074;PeterL;BingoBoingo I think you nailed it, no more argument needed to vilify obeasts
1435965;1458312075;danielpbarron;BingoBoingo, indeed obesity leads to hell
1435966;1458312088;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron and what if they can't fit down the chute ?
1435967;1458312091;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: If remixing things might as well escalate its cardinality
1435968;1458312091;danielpbarron;shows lack of self-control which The Bible requires of the saved
1435969;1458312104;danielpbarron;the path to destruction is broad
1435970;1458312110;PeterL;mircea_popescu then slice them into smaller pieces?
1435971;1458312138;mircea_popescu;i always thought "the path to destruction is broad" just gave measure of the argot prescience of the king james bible and it really means "the path to destruction is woman".
1435972;1458312146;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> danielpbarron and what if they can't fit down the chute ? << Plop them on top of a chute and wait for the fold mold to liquefy them
1435973;1458312170;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00042003 = 5.2084 BTC [+]
1435974;1458312185;BingoBoingo;eternity is a long time
1435975;1458312216;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435825 << you ever saw someone do the verify thing with old style signatures ?
1435976;1458312216;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 12:20:36; asciilifeform: also i would like to watch mp or anyone actually ~do~ the 'hand verify' thing.
1435977;1458312221;danielpbarron;Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
1435978;1458312229;mircea_popescu;i had the pleasure of a coupla of such nonsense back in the day.
1435979;1458312299;mircea_popescu;(for the curious, the way private sealed writs work in fiat court is, the presumed author is confronted with them. if he accepts them all is fine, if however he repudiates them the circus starts, because the case forks into a sub-case about whether the item is genuine or not, gotta have witnesses as to the writ, experts as to the writ, you can be there a month with the piece of paper.)
1435980;1458312316;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: Also pls to not link my blog as my slave name.
1435981;1458312365;mircea_popescu;(and yes in that month i can do the fucking rsa exponentiation on paper three times over.)
1435982;1458312381;danielpbarron;you know your name is on the listing agreement for qntra right?
1435983;1458312393;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: Sure, as a legacy thing
1435984;1458312401;mircea_popescu;as a legacy ?!
1435985;1458312409;mircea_popescu;you gonna get yourself a pinoy sunni name son ?
1435986;1458312412;danielpbarron;well i'd rather not list your blog at all if the requirement is to not use your name
1435987;1458312413;BingoBoingo;I don't mind it being used where necessary, but it is still a slave name
1435988;1458312423;danielpbarron;is it not the name your parents gave you/
1435989;1458312448;BingoBoingo;That my parents gave me and the fiat gang stole the title to
1435990;1458312458;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> you gonna get yourself a pinoy sunni name son ? << Maybe
1435991;1458312466;danielpbarron;you should honor your parents, regardless of who else stole whatever
1435992;1458312468;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo you know he has a point tho, just because someone stole or didn't stole it, what's that to you ?
1435993;1458312486;PeterL;when you meet a girl at the bar, do you introduce yourself "Hi, I'm BingoBoingo"?
1435994;1458312490;BingoBoingo;;;google "your name is toby"
1435995;1458312491;gribble;Your name is TOBY! What's your name? - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CpJpGF8lS8>; Whats your Name "Kunta Kinte" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMPFQo5V-lA>; Kunta Kinte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunta_Kinte>
1435996;1458312507;BingoBoingo;<PeterL> when you meet a girl at the bar, do you introduce yourself "Hi, I'm BingoBoingo"? << It's an occasion to use the legacy identfier
1435997;1458312519;mircea_popescu;PeterL i knew a guy who would introduce himself to half drunk british roses as "hi, my name's pizda ma-tii!"
1435998;1458312549;mircea_popescu;sort-of romanian mark hunt.
1435999;1458312554;BingoBoingo;But Back when I did the bar thing I'd use different names at each bar generally
1436000;1458312608;mircea_popescu;"hi, i'm papalexandrorghios bingoboingoski"
1436001;1458312627;BingoBoingo;lol
1436002;1458312638;mircea_popescu;"honey, if you can say that outloud you're not drunk enough."
1436003;1458312689;PeterL;Me nephew has to say his name several times before any new acquaintances get it, my brother named him Tlazohtlalia
1436004;1458312750;asciilifeform;PeterL is an aztec ?!
1436005;1458312754;PeterL;yup
1436006;1458312763;*;BingoBoingo always though NOT using aliases at the bar was inviting unnecessary risk
1436007;1458312773;PeterL;(my sis-in-law is of Aztec heritage)
1436008;1458312788;mircea_popescu;so what's his mates call him ? tla ?
1436009;1458312801;PeterL;Tlazoh
1436010;1458312819;PeterL;sounds kindla like "klaw-zoe"
1436011;1458312830;BingoBoingo;See, lazlo is a solid bar alias
1436012;1458312869;asciilifeform;tlocelot !
1436013;1458312873;mircea_popescu;ha. don't you need a moustache to legally wear that name ?
1436014;1458312894;BingoBoingo;lol
1436015;1458312915;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i don't use aliases even in promiscuity. everyone's "vampyre lord" and "celeste" and what the fuck not, i'm mircea popescu
1436016;1458312927;mircea_popescu;"wait, THAT IS YOUR REAL NAME?!?!?!" "yeah".
1436017;1458312968;BingoBoingo;But when you drink in the manner I am inclined to you gotta have something you can pronounce
1436018;1458312978;BingoBoingo;two syllables is too many
1436019;1458313001;mircea_popescu;at least if they had the fucking decency to be funny about it, lord derp and hurrserl and shit. but no, "chocolate".
1436020;1458313059;jurov;some germans insist to call me "georg" even without any substances involved. the original is apparently too hard
1436021;1458313078;BingoBoingo;Also the consonants have to be able to survive a prnounced slur
1436022;1458313104;PeterL;asciilifeform I just realized I answered your question wrong, I am not aztec, I'm good old English-American. My brother married into Aztec.
1436023;1458313143;mircea_popescu;jurov i always wondered where it comes from.
1436024;1458313183;mircea_popescu;(seems basically a slavonic version of george anyway)
1436025;1458313190;jurov;yes it's that
1436026;1458313203;mircea_popescu;well then not terribly off.
1436027;1458313343;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435975 << non-cryptographic signatures are really 99+% 'promise' and precious little protocol.
1436028;1458313343;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 14:43:36; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435825 << you ever saw someone do the verify thing with old style signatures ?
1436029;1458313361;asciilifeform;the 'prima facie' thing usually carries, afaik.
1436030;1458313364;mircea_popescu;just like everything else pre technology.
1436031;1458313375;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform only in us courts that got very lazy meanwhile.
1436032;1458313379;asciilifeform;(and when it doesn't, result has little to do with finding of fact and much to do with game-theoretical game of 'chicken')
1436033;1458313386;jurov;was a while to get used to it. i wonder how was BingoBoingo keeping track of his nickname when it was different every time
1436034;1458313402;mircea_popescu;i suspect through a massive dose of not giving a shit.
1436035;1458313423;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo et al : making up new name for yerself every morning is crummy tradecraft.
1436036;1458313432;asciilifeform;ever heard of, e.g., 'legend', etc.
1436037;1458313493;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435981 << i will not say that this is impossible, but i would actually like to watch somebody do it
1436038;1458313493;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 14:46:05; mircea_popescu: (and yes in that month i can do the fucking rsa exponentiation on paper three times over.)
1436039;1458313500;asciilifeform;accurately.
1436040;1458313521;mircea_popescu;if i ever open a brothel here, we'll have a rsa night.
1436041;1458313537;mircea_popescu;naked sluts doing hard maths, what more can you ask of art.
1436042;1458313564;jurov;asciilifeform: as usual, your lawyer will just crudely reimplement rsa in excel
1436043;1458313580;asciilifeform;!s mental rsa
1436044;1458313581;assbot;5 results for 'mental rsa' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mental+rsa
1436045;1458313587;mircea_popescu;better chance  with the brothel.
1436046;1458313605;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435987 << would somebody explain this to me
1436047;1458313605;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 14:46:53; BingoBoingo: I don't mind it being used where necessary, but it is still a slave name
1436048;1458313663;jurov;it's simple, he transcended the slavery by referring to himself by his wot nick
1436049;1458313693;asciilifeform;what is being hidden, and from whom? e.g., everyone i've worked, done business with, etc. since i had a www, knew about it
1436050;1458313722;asciilifeform;this not only was not a problem, but arguably helped me to avoid becoming embroiled with various folks who were up to no good
1436051;1458313777;jurov;in other news, https://media.giphy.com/media/Ry8vYUztNpRfy/giphy.gif
1436052;1458313785;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SYhg5w )
1436053;1458313797;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think his plan to fight some derps doing black magic is not to squarely ignore them, but to DO THINGS to anti-magic their magic.
1436054;1458313803;mircea_popescu;which is perhaps not fully considered a plan.
1436055;1458314274;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435837 << student exercise - prove that the 10 (usa) or 20 (eu) pogo garland will necessarily explode if they all enter cpu halt mode.
1436056;1458314274;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 13:25:04; jurov: asciilifeform: if he is fine with serially connecting elements with wildly variable resistances to 300V, no wonder he's fine with many other interesting things :)
1436057;1458314335;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435838 << classical telco. but the batteries were IN PARALLEL
1436058;1458314335;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 13:27:29; *: BingoBoingo always imagined low power colo working off of DC straight from batteries
1436059;1458314353;mircea_popescu;eh for crying out loud, what is with this!
1436060;1458314372;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform seriously, you can't protect a circuit from overvoltage, overcurrent and everything else ?
1436061;1458314386;mircea_popescu;"oh noes, the car will run into a wall!11"
1436062;1458314393;mircea_popescu;da fuck already.
1436063;1458314400;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sure as hell you can
1436064;1458314404;mircea_popescu;so then what ?
1436065;1458314405;asciilifeform;it is called... regulated dc power supply
1436066;1458314412;asciilifeform;per box.
1436067;1458314418;mircea_popescu;sigh.
1436068;1458314440;mircea_popescu;this is even lulzier than the whole "can't move out of dc" thing.
1436069;1458314446;mircea_popescu;because this apparently is... can't move TO dc.
1436070;1458314454;trinque;!b2
1436071;1458314458;trinque;d'aw
1436072;1458314460;mircea_popescu;MUST USE CHINEZE BRIX
1436073;1458314465;asciilifeform;no.
1436074;1458314469;asciilifeform;but must use vregs.
1436075;1458314472;mircea_popescu;part and parcel of our attempts to you know, get out of hardware dependency of chinese\
1436076;1458314476;mircea_popescu;MUST USE THEIR BRIX!!11
1436077;1458314486;asciilifeform;and not rely on neigbouring boxes to drop your voltage, wtf
1436078;1458314500;mircea_popescu;"i want someone to make me a si foundry and i'll strangle anyone who even tries to make a power source!"
1436079;1458314526;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you recall your article about african huts ?
1436080;1458314535;mircea_popescu;not as such ? :/
1436081;1458314542;asciilifeform;the one about how the monkeys never invented architecture in the sense of how-to-make-house-stand-up
1436082;1458314559;mircea_popescu;aha ?
1436083;1458314585;asciilifeform;it was more interesting even, it was about how they do not even see it as a thing
1436084;1458314602;asciilifeform;as in, 'your house is really same as my pile of straw, it must be, there is nothing else in the world'
1436085;1458314614;mircea_popescu;go on ?
1436086;1458314724;asciilifeform;well series circuit with loads that gotta get 5% of specced voltage is nutso.
1436087;1458314751;asciilifeform;and there is no reason to take my word for it, go, try.
1436088;1458314759;asciilifeform;i even brought you some pogos iirc.
1436089;1458314784;asciilifeform;take wire cutters, rip a diode bridge out of that argentinian shit pc from article, and have it..
1436090;1458314797;asciilifeform;a pair of wire cutters would suffice.
1436091;1458314834;mircea_popescu;i've been trying to follow this with the huts etc but it doesn't coallesce into a something.
1436092;1458314862;asciilifeform;it coalesces into there being arts mircea_popescu is - apparently - innocent of
1436093;1458314865;asciilifeform;but nevertheless exist.
1436094;1458314874;mircea_popescu;anyway, would it make you happier if he puts a transformer in between, takes it from 300 V 1 A to 4.5 V 60 A and then parallels that ?
1436095;1458314898;mircea_popescu;i guess he'll need to use thicker wires, but hey, if it'll make your impalement sense happy why not.
1436096;1458314973;mircea_popescu;the ~only point i made prior to the whole "way things are done!11" explosion was, that for the price of buying extension cords for all the shitty little bricks he can make a central power source himself.
1436097;1458314997;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435940 <<< fair'nuff
1436098;1458314997;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 14:34:24; mircea_popescu: lol davout while i'm the first friend of humor, or so i like to think, that two weeks tm can't stand there. it can readily be interpreted to mean forever, and that just can't be.
1436099;1458315000;mircea_popescu;decentralization being not the answer, but the problem, in many applications. as seen here.
1436100;1458315177;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a correct way to 'de-chink' the pogo power source might be, e.g., to connect them all - in parallel - to old soviet car battery charger.
1436101;1458315183;asciilifeform;this would work for hundred years.
1436102;1458315200;asciilifeform;even comes with thick cable.
1436103;1458315260;asciilifeform;i have a massive dc supply (of, believe or not, ~british!~ circa '70s make) at my house, for this purpose.
1436104;1458315458;PeterL;maybe it is just my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, but it sounds like mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are saying to do the same thing, but won't agree with each other?
1436105;1458315720;asciilifeform;PeterL: nope.
1436106;1458315746;asciilifeform;PeterL: he suggested (i still can't tell if seriously!) to plug them in ~series~, like christmas lights, to a high voltage line.
1436107;1458315791;asciilifeform;so as to avoid the need for a) dozens of 'wall warts' or b) a high current dc power supply.
1436108;1458316487;jurov;actually, that would neatly solve the mystery of cascading failure of his raid setup
1436109;1458316556;jurov;if he had the drives powered in that way
1436110;1458316620;asciilifeform;jurov: i can't really picture him wiring up drives with his own hands, tho
1436111;1458316662;jurov;no, he just asked the slaves to, like he hih do danielpbarron
1436112;1458316668;jurov;*did ho
1436113;1458316676;jurov;eh damn
1436114;1458316692;asciilifeform;waiwut
1436115;1458316736;BingoBoingo;<jurov> was a while to get used to it. i wonder how was BingoBoingo keeping track of his nickname when it was different every time << nicknames attach to bars. If bar isn't frequented enough "hey you" workz
1436116;1458316784;jurov;asciilifeform: still talked in hypotheticals, i have no indication that actually happened
1436117;1458316816;jurov;but it's very likely that in absence of other opinions, dpb would actually try it
1436118;1458316882;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> asciilifeform i think his plan to fight some derps doing black magic is not to squarely ignore them, but to DO THINGS to anti-magic their magic. << Oh it's not a plan. It's noise
1436119;1458316888;BingoBoingo;for aesthetics
1436120;1458319956;mircea_popescu;PeterL> maybe it is just my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, but it sounds like mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are saying to do the same thing, but won't agree with each other? << you have nfi how often this happens.
1436121;1458319978;mircea_popescu;jurov> actually, that would neatly solve the mystery of cascading failure of his raid setup << fu georg!
1436122;1458320379;mircea_popescu;<asciilifeform> PeterL: he suggested (i still can't tell if seriously!) to plug them in ~series~ << no dude. he said "see if your isp is willing to give you a c block / upgrade your connection. buy a coupla bridges of 32 or 64, make a high voltage rectifier thingee, and power a bunch of boxes" then you went all crazy about how series omaygerd! and i spent the rest of the interval poking fun at it. this is an exact para
1436123;1458320379;mircea_popescu;llel of how mp said "^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly." and you spent two days going on about 0 value bitcoin, then the interval hence being butthurt that there's no 0 value bitcoin.
1436124;1458320379;mircea_popescu;I'm not necessarily against taking mp's lines and looking in all the folds carefully ; but it's a little silly to do this run off with what i think an angle might have been, damn everything else.
1436125;1458320381;mircea_popescu;moderation in all things eh.
1436126;1458320468;mircea_popescu;uncharitably i might also observe that other than "i say so!" "it's how it's done" "reddit would agree", relatively little actual arguments were brought, which is why the task of poking fun was so easy/the experience so frustrating.
1436127;1458320474;asciilifeform;l0lzies
1436128;1458320552;mircea_popescu;to summarize said argument attempts : line 1. "high voltage is dangerous" "mkay, throw out your tv" ; line 2 : "you will have to protect the line" "yes you will" ; line 3 : "this was done historically" "yes it was".
1436129;1458320713;BingoBoingo;!up nh
1436130;1458320719;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you are missing the key piece
1436131;1458320732;asciilifeform;where you are relying on adjacent loads in aggregate to actually regulate your v
1436132;1458320740;mircea_popescu;you don't HAVE to be tho.
1436133;1458320745;asciilifeform;this did not even work well for motherfucking arc lights in 1880
1436134;1458320747;mircea_popescu;you might be, i guess.
1436135;1458320783;mircea_popescu;in parallel you're relying on same loads to regulate your... current.
1436136;1458320785;asciilifeform;one of the reason we have the profusion of bulky chinese wall warts, etc. is the extreme sensitivity of semiconductor to supply v
1436137;1458320786;mircea_popescu;big whoop.
1436138;1458320796;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: NOBODY REGULATES CURRENT
1436139;1458320797;asciilifeform;wtf
1436140;1458320808;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and you know this for a fact ? maybe the profusion is just because people like encapsulated things.
1436141;1458320811;asciilifeform;omfg
1436142;1458320820;asciilifeform;i have no wordz.
1436143;1458320826;mircea_popescu;must you scream ?
1436144;1458320830;asciilifeform;aha!
1436145;1458320834;asciilifeform;mmmmmggmgmg
1436146;1458320837;mircea_popescu;lol.
1436147;1458320869;mircea_popescu;tell me this : if you have two 1 ohm items in parallel, at 1 volt ea, what current flows through the main ??
1436148;1458321019;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: adds up to 1/2 ohm load res
1436149;1458321020;asciilifeform;so 2a
1436150;1458321022;asciilifeform;why ?
1436151;1458321030;mircea_popescu;win. and if i add a third, what happens to the current ?
1436152;1458321060;mircea_popescu;don't tell me it upregulates to 3a i might fall over.
1436153;1458321105;asciilifeform;regulates?!!!!!
1436154;1458321118;mircea_popescu;lol. I SEE WHAT WAS IMPORTANT!!1
1436155;1458321135;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when you plug in one toaster into your mains, and then another, and then a third, how many times the current ?
1436156;1458321146;asciilifeform;what in this joke am in not grasping ?
1436157;1458321153;mircea_popescu;i dunno.
1436158;1458321166;asciilifeform;yes, moar load, moar current, newz at 11!
1436159;1458321166;mircea_popescu;anyway, methinks this horse is beaten through.
1436160;1458321201;BingoBoingo;Screw it, upregulates to 160A because it also has to kickstart the flywheel
1436161;1458321240;mircea_popescu;regularly.
1436162;1458321299;PeterL;AC runs motor which spins flywheel which pwers homopolar generator giving DC current
1436163;1458321301;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform speaking of plugging into mains, you know that if you bought a bunch of power strips and powered your entire house out of the same socket it'd eventually a) start a fire ; b) pop the fuse ; c) all of the above ?
1436164;1458321314;mircea_popescu;seems pretty dangerous this could happen and also should not be possibru!
1436165;1458321380;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how many amps to put on a single breaker is typically not 'rocket surgery' and printed thereupon
1436166;1458321390;asciilifeform;(yes this does not help some folks...)
1436167;1458321458;asciilifeform;in usa, typical residential mains socket (and its associated wire) is rated for 15a.
1436168;1458321469;asciilifeform;in commercial bldg - 20, sometimes 30.
1436169;1458321474;asciilifeform;i have nfi re eu.
1436170;1458321521;asciilifeform;and less so even re: no es pais pobre.
1436171;1458321582;mircea_popescu;aha.
1436172;1458321612;mircea_popescu;but i had no idea that things could pop if you use parallel! or that you could possibly need a breaker! or things.
1436173;1458321621;mircea_popescu;not like it's cereal amirite ?
1436174;1458321723;mircea_popescu;actually speaking of dc motors, i wonder if you could get a hamster to wheel-power a pogo.
1436175;1458321745;mircea_popescu;what do the things actually draw, half a W or something ?
1436176;1458321750;PeterL;how much power does pogo take?
1436177;1458321762;asciilifeform;PeterL: <10W without disk
1436178;1458321769;mircea_popescu;o then nm.
1436179;1458321787;asciilifeform;measure it yerself, this is trivial
1436180;1458321803;mircea_popescu;i had but apparently lost a degree of magnitude on the way.
1436181;1458321811;asciilifeform;happenz!
1436182;1458321821;PeterL;use some exercicles to power it, for obeasts to put their fat to work?
1436183;1458321843;asciilifeform;or use a wick.
1436184;1458321846;mircea_popescu;would make a pretty great blog topic, you know ? for the numerous bloggers among us constantly looking for stuff to feed the woodchipper with.
1436185;1458321854;asciilifeform;(anyone recall the ancient persian execution method, with fat wicks?!)
1436186;1458321860;mircea_popescu;prolly instafamous on various social media turds, too.
1436187;1458321867;mircea_popescu;"here's me exercycling to power my blog"
1436188;1458321876;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc this is in herodotus?
1436189;1458321884;asciilifeform;or maybe not
1436190;1458321886;asciilifeform;hm
1436191;1458321888;mircea_popescu;i think they were gilding things with potatoes
1436192;1458321896;mircea_popescu;(IN SERIES!)
1436193;1458321969;mircea_popescu;i guess i'm lucky to be in an engineering-internet. were i in a scholarly-internet it'd be all "mp, potato comes from new world therefore everything is invalid!"
1436194;1458322015;asciilifeform;i thought this was known to all?
1436195;1458322017;asciilifeform;potatl!
1436196;1458322055;mircea_popescu;mno, the origins are batata and papa (still used as originally, to distinguish sweet and plain varieties, here)
1436197;1458322057;asciilifeform;and the crackpot archaeological thing re gilding concerned egyptians, not persians
1436198;1458322063;mircea_popescu;no such wonder as potatl.
1436199;1458322090;asciilifeform;and obviously not potato but mineral battery (which is supposed to have been found, in some suggestive fragment, according to aficionados)
1436200;1458322103;mircea_popescu;aha.
1436201;1458322145;asciilifeform;no potatl ?! the aztec nationalists lied !??!111
1436202;1458322164;asciilifeform;what next, no severed head basketball ?!111
1436203;1458322170;mircea_popescu;the spanish say it's from taino.
1436204;1458322264;asciilifeform;hm.
1436205;1458322848;phf;seems like we just need different signing modes, one of them being, "usenet text" or somesuch, ignores repeat whitespace, only recognizes alphanum and top row symbols, signature in the form, "in the year of our republic such and such i honorable citizen with these two primes which are my identity and my blood indicate the validity of the above text, [primes] [signature ciphertext]"
1436206;1458322928;phf;can then manually verify by doing hand rsa. primes and ciphertext are base 10 for human convenience
1436207;1458322998;phf;other signing method is a microdot pattern, you know, to cover all the bases
1436208;1458323090;asciilifeform;l0l
1436209;1458324704;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435731 < not at all - i think there is some merit in the argument in the sense that bitbet will hardly survive the upset its going through now (which is actually devaluating the asset to be liquidated)
1436210;1458324704;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 04:21:00; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432214 << mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: this was all very rude and uncalled for, my apologies
1436211;1458324798;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
1436212;1458324800;assbot;Loper OS » Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pQWk4X )
1436213;1458324800;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1436214;1458325012;phf;oh my a fresh loper post!
1436215;1458325025;asciilifeform;l0l
1436216;1458325030;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435802 < generally in favour - perhaps the 'actual assets' need a more tight spec?
1436217;1458325030;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 11:13:11; deedbot-: [fr.anco.is] BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/
1436218;1458325041;kakobrekla;davout ^^
1436219;1458325416;*;asciilifeform prepares a bucket for mircea_popescu to barf into after he reads the 'algebra' piece.
1436220;1458325650;trinque;feeds list
1436221;1458325654;trinque;deedbot-: feeds list
1436222;1458325654;deedbot-;Feeds:
1436223;1458325655;deedbot-;1. http://trilema.com/feed/rss/
1436224;1458325655;deedbot-;2. http://qntra.net/feed/
1436225;1458325656;deedbot-;3. http://www.contravex.com/feed/rss
1436226;1458325656;deedbot-;4. http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
1436227;1458325657;deedbot-;5. https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbetsbig/
1436228;1458325657;deedbot-;6. http://explo.yt/feed/rss2
1436229;1458325658;deedbot-;7. http://fr.anco.is/feed/
1436230;1458325659;deedbot-;8. http://www.btcalpha.com/feed/
1436231;1458325659;deedbot-;9. http://cascadianhacker.com/index.xml
1436232;1458325660;deedbot-;10. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/feed/
1436233;1458325660;deedbot-;11. http://www.dianacoman.com/feed/
1436234;1458325661;deedbot-;12. http://danielpbarron.com/feed/
1436235;1458325779;trinque;deedbot-: feeds add http://www.loper-os.org/?feed=rss2
1436236;1458325781;assbot;Loper OS ... ( http://bit.ly/1pQYG3Q )
1436237;1458325781;deedbot-;http://www.loper-os.org/?feed=rss2 added.
1436238;1458325848;deedbot-;[Loper OS] Practical Blockchain Telegraphy. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490
1436239;1458325849;deedbot-;[Loper OS] Phuctor Broke Several RSA Keys. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1504
1436240;1458325849;deedbot-;[Loper OS] The Phuctored and the Phucked - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526
1436241;1458325850;deedbot-;[Loper OS] MPI sans the mud. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533
1436242;1458325850;deedbot-;[Loper OS] Yes, you can still get these. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1539
1436243;1458325851;deedbot-;[Loper OS] Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
1436244;1458325910;asciilifeform;l0l
1436245;1458326232;trinque;Not only are there times when one would like to seal a payload with a caveat of one kind or another, but presently we have no means of conveying disapproval – other than by refraining from sealing. << check it out, a wrath bit
1436246;1458326421;phf;geek code for vpatches
1436247;1458327273;mod6;ummm
1436248;1458327281;mod6;this seal vector thing is pretty cool.
1436249;1458327387;PeterL;how would v resolve patches with both "trust" signature by one party and "distrust" from another party? I suppose that would be another knob to turn in v settings?
1436250;1458327510;mod6;not sure yet.
1436251;1458327576;mod6;anyway, interesting concept.
1436252;1458328816;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436249 << this is not really intended to function on its own, beyond 'only press +trust-sealed patches'
1436253;1458328816;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 18:56:27; PeterL: how would v resolve patches with both "trust" signature by one party and "distrust" from another party? I suppose that would be another knob to turn in v settings?
1436254;1458328872;asciilifeform;but rather it is is more for scenarios that may arise in the dark future, when, say, it becomes necessary to purge material from a disgraced lord, and somehow not burn the world down in a chain reaction while so doing
1436255;1458328905;asciilifeform;but the gedankenexperiment of course offers no simple answer to this. just a possible component of one.
1436256;1458329015;asciilifeform;my internal emulated mircea_popescu has actually convinced me that this whole thing is probably a nonstarter.
1436257;1458329040;asciilifeform;and he is rarely mistaken.
1436258;1458329056;PeterL;why does alf-mp not like it?
1436259;1458329077;asciilifeform;because, in brief, 'out of band'
1436260;1458329087;asciilifeform;and 'meta'
1436261;1458329106;asciilifeform;and 'mechanizing that which must remain human'
1436262;1458329572;asciilifeform;the problem i was trying to solve is that it remains painfully underspecified exactly ~what is communicated by the act of sealing~
1436263;1458329594;asciilifeform;this has been itching in my head ever since the 'manual gardening' and 'regrind' thread
1436264;1458329655;asciilifeform;in particular, i believe that satoshi's turd is an abomination and is barely fit for any use at all, and ought to be discarded as soon as a politically reliable alternative exists - but there is no way to infer this from what patches i have signed.
1436265;1458329692;asciilifeform;nor any way to convey doubt about meaning or provenance, other than human-readable commentary
1436266;1458329755;asciilifeform;!s sirens silence
1436267;1458329756;assbot;2 results for 'sirens silence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sirens+silence
1436268;1458329762;asciilifeform;and that.
1436269;1458329814;asciilifeform;and yes, internal-mp says 'stop trying to finesse the basic use case of the forum, don't take the rifle fishing'
1436270;1458329870;PeterL;one byte commentary is easier to package with payload, rather than trying to reference commentary elsewhere
1436271;1458330092;asciilifeform;understand, i was looking for ~the~ decomposition of the hypothetical vector.
1436272;1458330115;asciilifeform;if it is not obvious that this is the only meaninngful decomposition (and it thus far is ~not~ to me!) than the gedankenexperiment fails.
1436273;1458331161;asciilifeform;my internal mp also says 'just because you have a pistol which knows how to fire bullets at people you don't like, it does not follow that there must also exist an antipistol which sucks out bullets from people you like'
1436274;1458331178;asciilifeform;he also says 'intellectualizing is evil, fuck a turnip today for good health'
1436275;1458332100;mod6;interesting thought tho
1436276;1458333025;trinque;asciilifeform │ he also says 'intellectualizing is evil, fuck a turnip today for good health' << l0l
1436277;1458335844;mircea_popescu;i've just finished rewiring this set of xmas lights to work in parallel
1436278;1458335856;mircea_popescu;i already am feeling the blessings of engineeringshnu upon my humble abode.
1436279;1458335938;mircea_popescu;did you know leds are actually digital equipments ?
1436280;1458336011;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436207 << is it me or is phf slowly catching up on republican humor
1436281;1458336011;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 17:43:18; phf: other signing method is a microdot pattern, you know, to cover all the bases
1436282;1458336058;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436209 << the other view being that proving that we can do something no one else can or could do will on the contrary, make this asset as well as all other assets more valuable.
1436283;1458336058;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 18:11:44; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435731 < not at all - i think there is some merit in the argument in the sense that bitbet will hardly survive the upset its going through now (which is actually devaluating the asset to be liquidated)
1436284;1458336074;mircea_popescu;it won't make specific forms of derpage tolerable going forward, also, but there was no provision to protect that stuff anyway.
1436285;1458336275;mircea_popescu;"The latter act conveys very little useful information, and no permanent sealed record remains of the effort taken to actually understand the patch. This is a Bad Thing" << the thing with this asciilifeform is that on the surface i feel very moved by the notion ; but upon examination it seems to devolve into a sort of enumerating badness ?
1436286;1458336331;mircea_popescu;but the vector is interesting.
1436287;1458336558;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436219 << not at all, i think it's a step in the right direction. i think it also needs more thinking/discussion, but anyway.
1436288;1458336558;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 18:23:36; *: asciilifeform prepares a bucket for mircea_popescu to barf into after he reads the 'algebra' piece.
1436289;1458336853;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436264 << really the problem is that it adds unwarranted complexity. so now we have more bits, yay. do they do anything ? notrly. well if you're going to hire a fortune teller, hire the cheapest not the best. but this aside - the problem you raise is very much a problem, and altogether this thing will have to be worked on moar.
1436290;1458336853;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 19:34:15; asciilifeform: in particular, i believe that satoshi's turd is an abomination and is barely fit for any use at all, and ought to be discarded as soon as a politically reliable alternative exists - but there is no way to infer this from what patches i have signed.
1436291;1458336991;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436273 << your internal mp is actually, after years of practice, getting pretty good.
1436292;1458336991;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 19:59:21; asciilifeform: my internal mp also says 'just because you have a pistol which knows how to fire bullets at people you don't like, it does not follow that there must also exist an antipistol which sucks out bullets from people you like'
1436293;1458337216;asciilifeform;i change his oil and polish gears every day !
1436294;1458337219;asciilifeform;he'd better be good.
1436295;1458337336;mircea_popescu;lol
1436296;1458337433;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436279 << recent units are actually ~addressable~
1436297;1458337433;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 21:18:58; mircea_popescu: did you know leds are actually digital equipments ?
1436298;1458337480;mircea_popescu;next they'll be able to ddos.
1436299;1458337482;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436285 << enumerating ~belief~
1436300;1458337482;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 21:24:35; mircea_popescu: "The latter act conveys very little useful information, and no permanent sealed record remains of the effort taken to actually understand the patch. This is a Bad Thing" << the thing with this asciilifeform is that on the surface i feel very moved by the notion ; but upon examination it seems to devolve into a sort of enumerating badness ?
1436301;1458337504;mircea_popescu;it is isn't it.
1436302;1458337512;asciilifeform;aha.
1436303;1458337521;mircea_popescu;the totality of thoughts thought is a legitimate application of pen to paper, is it not.
1436304;1458337526;asciilifeform;so no protocol is claimed, it is explicitly a promise.
1436305;1458337531;asciilifeform;but the application calls for it imho.
1436306;1458337533;mircea_popescu;be they what they may be, they are what they are and so it goes.
1436307;1458337581;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436287 << the thing is not meant to be adopted as is (for one thing, there is no ready orifice for it to climb into atm)
1436308;1458337581;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 21:29:18; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436219 << not at all, i think it's a step in the right direction. i think it also needs more thinking/discussion, but anyway.
1436309;1458337600;*;mircea_popescu intends to allow some dust to settle on this. 
1436310;1458337609;mircea_popescu;hey, it works to discern wine, why not here.
1436311;1458337620;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436289 << originally when i wrote this down some months ago on paper i had a very 'cheap fortuneteller', 4 bits
1436312;1458337620;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 21:34:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436264 << really the problem is that it adds unwarranted complexity. so now we have more bits, yay. do they do anything ? notrly. well if you're going to hire a fortune teller, hire the cheapest not the best. but this aside - the problem you raise is very much a problem, and altogether this thing will have to be worked on moar.
1436313;1458337647;asciilifeform;at any rate all 'v' aficionados are encouraged to read, and think.
1436314;1458337651;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform : 0, 1, inf. if not one bit, then why not make headers, in ascii ?
1436315;1458337673;mircea_popescu;#This thing is made by me and it sucks but doesn't lie.
1436316;1458337696;asciilifeform;well, i originally wanted to turn it into a prime and embed as exponent !
1436317;1458337704;mircea_popescu;#This thing is made by drepper, and while it doesn't per se suck, it very likely lies.
1436318;1458337726;asciilifeform;the other thing is that compactness forces one to think about the essentials.
1436319;1458337744;mircea_popescu;to date every experiment in forcing people to think has resulted in broken tools.
1436320;1458337745;asciilifeform;the set of things that usefully belong in there is very, very finite.
1436321;1458337749;mircea_popescu;you know the joke with the police station ?
1436322;1458337752;asciilifeform;hm?
1436323;1458337776;mircea_popescu;after ro joins eu, they try to improve the quality of police force. send psychologists to test the policemen
1436324;1458337792;mircea_popescu;one of the tests involves one of those boxes with shapes cut into the side and the actual shapes made out of wood outside
1436325;1458337806;mircea_popescu;the results - "1% of the policemen are intelligent, 99% of policemen are strong."
1436326;1458337811;asciilifeform;ah!
1436327;1458337817;*;asciilifeform heard in another form
1436328;1458337820;asciilifeform;but same.
1436329;1458337842;mircea_popescu;"forces one to think" usually works like that - discovers just how many strongmen are there.
1436330;1458337847;asciilifeform;and yes, this is largely true.
1436331;1458337854;asciilifeform;but does not excuse us from the thinking.
1436332;1458337894;mircea_popescu;sure.
1436333;1458338240;asciilifeform;i ~would~ like to actually discover what the equivalence classes are.
1436334;1458345428;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/ndE13
1436335;1458347228;deedbot-;[Qntra] Hulk Hogan Wins "Revenge Porn" Suit Against Gawker Media - http://qntra.net/2016/03/hulk-hogan-wins-revenge-porn-suit-against-gawker-media/
1436336;1458350108;BingoBoingo;Justice https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/928311
1436337;1458350110;assbot;A deathfat coworker is losing a leg because of me. | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1UbtNUM )
1436338;1458350533;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/TBBvO3.jpg
1436339;1458350534;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ubu8Xy )
1436340;1458350734;BingoBoingo;!up ryan-c
1436341;1458352416;danielpbarron;a fat picker?? mega-surprise that went on for more than two weeks.
1436342;1458352432;BingoBoingo;UPDATED http://qntra.net/2016/03/hulk-hogan-wins-revenge-porn-suit-against-gawker-media/
1436343;1458352433;assbot;Hulk Hogan Wins "Revenge Porn" Suit Against Gawker Media | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1pzGagp )
1436344;1458352456;BingoBoingo;danielpbarron: surprising yes, but ADA, resonable accomodation, etc
1436345;1458353507;BingoBoingo;In other Gawker Media today from their longest tenured socialist agitator https://archive.is/ILB36
1436346;1458355123;BingoBoingo;!up joecool
1436347;1458355146;joecool;BingoBoingo: thanks but i *could* do that if i had much to say at the moment
1436348;1458355155;mircea_popescu;gotta say i admire your patience with the gawker stuff.
1436349;1458355160;BingoBoingo;you're welcome
1436350;1458355167;asciilifeform;yeah my dosimeter maxes out in ~30sec
1436351;1458355176;joecool;how is everyone? been a while since i frequented here
1436352;1458355187;joecool;i read parts of the logs from time to time
1436353;1458355256;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: You gotta remember at one point I was able to appreciate the sports stuff that didn't suck for a while. Now I just drink tears as it tears itself appart.
1436354;1458355273;mircea_popescu;i guess huh.
1436355;1458355307;mircea_popescu;in other news i just watched the most ridiculous idiocy ever. i'm talking "robot king kong from outer space" level here.
1436356;1458355315;BingoBoingo;Oh?
1436357;1458355317;mircea_popescu;;;google metropolitan film
1436358;1458355351;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: someone's gotta take a hit for the team
1436359;1458355392;mircea_popescu;written/directed by one whit stillman. which in itself is amusing, like amateur pornographers making vhs tapes with cardboard credits reading Rick Steele or some shit.
1436360;1458355399;asciilifeform;'In an apartment on Manhattan a couple of friends from the New York upper-class meet almost every night to talk about social mobility, play bridge and discuss Fourier's socialism; the cynic Nick, the philosophical Charlie, party girl Sally and austenite Audrey. They are joined by Tom. His background is much simpler and he is critical of their way of life. But he finds a soul mate in Audrey, who without his knowledge falls in l
1436361;1458355399;asciilifeform;ove with him. '
1436362;1458355414;mircea_popescu;anyway, it has everything, including a fucktard who proposes to name themselves "urban haute bourgeoisie"
1436363;1458355427;mircea_popescu;chiefly because the ustards are too fucking dumb to even comprehend unintentional selfbattery.
1436364;1458355438;asciilifeform;reads like a demented version of mircea_popescu's 'asylum' ?!
1436365;1458355450;mircea_popescu;i surmise that would be fair.
1436366;1458355452;mircea_popescu;very demented.
1436367;1458355481;mircea_popescu;it's seriously worth seeing just to see what i think of us "upper crust".
1436368;1458355492;mircea_popescu;perhaps better appreciate my disdain for alf's lizzards.
1436369;1458355522;asciilifeform;but no, see, these are merely the ablative reactive armour plating for the real lizards!1111
1436370;1458355528;mircea_popescu;yaya.
1436371;1458355543;mircea_popescu;they're 20somethings who seriously party dressed.
1436372;1458355568;*;asciilifeform has nfi, does not own a torch long enough to cut through the ten layers of wall between him and even nearest window from which lizards might be seen when the planets align.
1436373;1458355574;mircea_popescu;also the whole cast is INCREDIBLY inept at reading.
1436374;1458355653;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> they're 20somethings who seriously party dressed. << In the US, the hamplanet hazard means 20 somethings gotta party dressed lest people get triggered of ham-raped
1436375;1458355661;mircea_popescu;which is unfortunate, seeing how the whole thing's one huge monologue.
1436376;1458355669;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: decode plox ?
1436377;1458355698;mircea_popescu;"Whit Stillman was born in 1952 and raised in Cornwall in upstate New York, the son of a impoverished d�butante from Philadelphia and a Democratic politician from Washington D.C."
1436378;1458355702;mircea_popescu;fucking hell that's his real name.
1436379;1458355704;mircea_popescu;and his real life.
1436380;1458355719;asciilifeform;speaking of BingoBoingo's horror shows, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_entrapment#/media/File:OSHA_grain_entrapment_illustration.jpg is interesting and brings to mind a beloved childhood physics text
1436381;1458355720;assbot;Grain entrapment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PhQnTb )
1436382;1458355724;mircea_popescu;how the fuck did these beached whales survive pre wikitwittereddit i'll never know.
1436383;1458355765;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, with the poor filter for keeping out undesirables USian 20 somethings are burdened with, nudity invites circus freak disaster
1436384;1458355914;BingoBoingo;Basically, Beetus Bitch Betty and her fold mold scare you USians into a clothed state
1436385;1458355924;mircea_popescu;eh bull.
1436386;1458355928;asciilifeform;where is any of this a thing ?!
1436387;1458355933;mircea_popescu;i have nfi.
1436388;1458355934;asciilifeform;must be a midwest plague
1436389;1458355940;asciilifeform;because it isn't here
1436390;1458355944;asciilifeform;and we have ten thousand plagues.
1436391;1458355945;asciilifeform;but not it.
1436392;1458356006;mircea_popescu;i do not recall a single instance of a nude or nude-tolerant place where fat people voluntarily attempted to participate.
1436393;1458356019;asciilifeform;aha
1436394;1458356026;asciilifeform;one rarely even sees them on streets
1436395;1458356028;mircea_popescu;perhaps i don't do enough renaissance faires / biker conventions / camping / whatever
1436396;1458356039;asciilifeform;i have nfi where they go, perhaps specially designated leprosoria
1436397;1458356779;gribble;Metropolitan (1990 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_(1990_film)>; Metropolitan (1990) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100142/>; Whit Stillman's 'Metropolitan' 25 Years Later: How it Bec | Indiewire: <http://www.indiewire.com/article/whit-stillmans-metropolitan-25-years-later-how-it-become-a-surprise-indie-hit-20150806>
1436398;1458356802;asciilifeform;l0l i think this is a record
1436399;1458356835;mircea_popescu;what ?
1436400;1458356846;asciilifeform;gribble delay
1436401;1458356857;mircea_popescu;o ya
1436402;1458356864;asciilifeform;~25m
1436403;1458356947;BingoBoingo;;;goxlag
1436404;1458356948;gribble;Error: "goxlag" is not a valid command.
1436405;1458356962;asciilifeform;l0l
1436406;1458358897;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00042066 = 8.4973 BTC [+]
1436407;1458369632;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00042066 = 6.8568 BTC [+] {2} 
1436408;1458380490;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8187 @ 0.00042094 = 3.4462 BTC [+]
1436409;1458383967;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00042111 = 6.2745 BTC [+] {3} 
1436410;1458387139;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22176 @ 0.00042138 = 9.3445 BTC [+] {2} 
1436411;1458389815;mircea_popescu;!up zdm
1436412;1458393570;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Cantarita - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/cantarita/
1436413;1458394889;mircea_popescu;btw, apropos of nothing in particular : Nonelementary Problems in an Elementary Exposition, A & I Yaglom.
1436414;1458394946;mircea_popescu;it has a splendid statement of cauchy's binding of riemann zeta terms among other goodies.
1436415;1458395002;asciilifeform;holy fuck, 1st mircea_popescu b00k rec?!
1436416;1458395014;mircea_popescu;never you mind!
1436417;1458395069;mircea_popescu;but yes, fine, fine, should be on that biographical list danielpbarron was making.
1436418;1458395071;mircea_popescu;was it him ?
1436419;1458395082;mircea_popescu;bibliographical*
1436420;1458395084;asciilifeform;was him
1436421;1458395107;asciilifeform;and since when does that thing exist in engl?!
1436422;1458395112;mircea_popescu;ikr ?
1436423;1458395118;mircea_popescu;apparently jews will learn any language.
1436424;1458395183;asciilifeform;speaking of jews, there is an english edition of the infamous 'jewish exam problems' compendium.
1436425;1458395199;mircea_popescu;i hope it has the appropriate trigger warnings.
1436426;1458395238;asciilifeform;it is actually same thing as the yaglom
1436427;1458395266;asciilifeform;now i'm curious how many actually came from it to begin with.
1436428;1458395428;mircea_popescu;speaking of trigger warnings, http://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/may/25/michael-gove-jewish-exam-question
1436429;1458395429;assbot;Michael Gove criticises 'bizarre' Jewish exam question | Education | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1pSEiPI )
1436430;1458395434;mircea_popescu;apparently it's bizarre to ask!
1436431;1458395512;mircea_popescu;"To suggest that antisemitism can ever be explained, rather than condemned, is insensitive and, frankly, bizarre. AQA needs to explain how and why this question was included in an exam paper."
1436432;1458395538;mircea_popescu;hurr. unintentional self-irony on the public budget!
1436433;1458395718;asciilifeform;http://www.math.umt.edu/tmme/vol11no3/Egenhoff_10.pdf << jewishproblemz
1436434;1458395721;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsV65S )
1436435;1458395732;asciilifeform;ther are several dead tree collections.
1436436;1458395752;asciilifeform;aka 'coffins'
1436437;1458397056;phf;asciilifeform: and since when does that thing exist in engl?! << http://www.amazon.com/dp/0486655369 has a bunch of nifty looking books in "customers who bought"
1436438;1458397058;assbot;Challenging Mathematical Problems With Elementary Solutions, Vol. 1: A. M. Yaglom, I. M. Yaglom: 0800759655366: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsYEVG )
1436439;1458397077;phf;"the ussr olympiad problem book"
1436440;1458397466;phf;i'm waiting for western ashkenazim to start embracing persecution as a status symbol, kind of like how affirmative action devalued blacks in workforce, this is the opposite. was a bit of a thing in su, in some professions (anything related to mil for example) if you were known to be of jewish descent (you wouldn't be on paper, but "people talk") it was also kind of assumed that you were whicked smart to get in
1436441;1458397594;mircea_popescu;it's not going to happen.
1436442;1458397627;mircea_popescu;the sad truth of the 20th century history is that hitler did in fact succeed ; much more than the italian twerp succeeded in wiping the mafia - the nazis managed to actually end judaism.
1436443;1458397654;mircea_popescu;the remnants, in both cases, are this ridoinculous us pretense, much in the way "indians" survived there.
1436444;1458397675;mircea_popescu;a pt barnum version.
1436445;1458397729;phf;"jewish lawyers" on tv
1436446;1458397748;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'good partz' at any rate.
1436447;1458397774;mircea_popescu;"we didn't end him - just decapitated".
1436448;1458397803;asciilifeform;more or less.
1436449;1458397811;mircea_popescu;in this case, more.
1436450;1458397970;mircea_popescu;anyway. in the meantime the heat of battle forged a very different israel, which i suppose can lay claim to continuance. but it is in very few significant points continuing my notion of jewish.
1436451;1458397992;mircea_popescu;then again the same can be said of imaginary postmodern nations such as "austria". really, austria ? ooookay.
1436452;1458398027;phf;apropos, one thing that i couldn't quite grok moving to u.s., how the children of odessa expats (read isaac babel for example about jewish gangsters of odessa) turned into sniveling woody allen clones
1436453;1458398074;mircea_popescu;you familiar with the whole "slav soul, fatalism, blabla" ?
1436454;1458398083;mircea_popescu;the us has it also ; they're much more retarded about it is all.
1436455;1458398091;mircea_popescu;place's too big, is the problem, and in both cases.
1436456;1458398094;asciilifeform;babel is mega-lulzy and exists today in, afaik, every language, mega-recommended to all
1436457;1458398128;asciilifeform;wtf means too big
1436458;1458398137;asciilifeform;no such thing
1436459;1458398159;mircea_popescu;from which we surmise you never had sex.
1436460;1458398170;davout;!b 3
1436461;1458398171;assbot;Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3Y6NGV8.txt )
1436462;1458398173;asciilifeform;l0l
1436463;1458398177;mircea_popescu;aha.
1436464;1458398183;mircea_popescu;no rub, no pleasure. is such thing as too big.
1436465;1458398189;phf;zing
1436466;1458398199;asciilifeform;i dont fuck countries..
1436467;1458398208;asciilifeform;(cuntries?)
1436468;1458398223;mircea_popescu;ofcourseyoudo.
1436469;1458398229;mircea_popescu;herein inclouded by reference,
1436470;1458398231;asciilifeform;hm.
1436471;1458398233;mircea_popescu;!s resistance of the medium
1436472;1458398233;assbot;8 results for 'resistance of the medium' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=resistance+of+the+medium
1436473;1458398241;asciilifeform;possibly.
1436474;1458398252;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform country is everyone's woman, eh. what else did you think it were, an abstraction ?
1436475;1458398398;mircea_popescu;(for the curious re notion of jewish - for one thing it speaks fucking idis, and for the other see bashevis-singer an' let me be.)
1436476;1458398404;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436450 << adlai awake? or is he still digesting that kg of lsd.
1436477;1458398404;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 14:32:50; mircea_popescu: anyway. in the meantime the heat of battle forged a very different israel, which i suppose can lay claim to continuance. but it is in very few significant points continuing my notion of jewish.
1436478;1458398450;asciilifeform;i once met the rarest animal on planet3
1436479;1458398468;mircea_popescu;really alf, lost fambly in saxon wastelands speaking plattdeutsch closer to jewish than hebrew speakers in africa.
1436480;1458398472;asciilifeform;~young~ chick who spoke with idish accent
1436481;1458398548;asciilifeform;and yeah 'jew' means ashkenazim, the other kinds may as well be eskimos as far as i'm concerned
1436482;1458398683;mircea_popescu;3% in 1000 ad, 97% in 1930s. today's israel has a fake 5 or 10% or somesuch, made mostly of retirees and plastics.
1436483;1458398703;mircea_popescu;pretty epic story, really. but the imposture is also evident.
1436484;1458399034;asciilifeform;updated http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 with link to ben_vulpes's excellent manual, which i entirely forgot about.
1436485;1458399036;assbot;Loper OS » Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pQWk4X )
1436486;1458405073;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.0004203 = 5.9472 BTC [-] {2} 
1436487;1458405803;deedbot-;[Trilema] Eulora : Auctions and Bilbulations - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-auctions-and-bilbulations/
1436488;1458407963;mod6;Does anyone else see these error messages running the latest trb (minus shiva)?  Looks to be in main.cpp:ProcessMessage around lines 1855:1913.  It doesn't look to me to be related to the malleus patch, but I could be wrong there.  Thoughts?  Seen the same in your logs?  Plz let us know.  http://dpaste.com/21PJMY4.txt
1436489;1458407965;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1pT50rx )
1436490;1458408408;mircea_popescu;mod6 cat debug.log | grep "std::bad_alloc" yields nothing.
1436491;1458408551;mod6;mircea_popescu: ok thanks for checking.
1436492;1458408594;mod6;fwiw, my node doesn't die, just keeps on running in the event of this exception.
1436493;1458411354;thestringpuller;mod6: looks like my node keeps stalling once it gets up to date?
1436494;1458411377;thestringpuller;it's still pulling in transactions in the logs, but it's not receiving any blocks
1436495;1458411409;thestringpuller;asciilifeform 's stuck node phenomenon I suppose
1436496;1458411855;hanbot;so mod6 & anyone else interested in that shortlogs idea (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434765): i've been trying out two versions of shortening; one trimmed of off-topic and nontechnical commentary, the other with any relevant line/argument summarized. a possibly substantial problem i see with either of these is that the accompanying philosophical discourse, esp from mircea_popescu, is probably mandatory for comprehension, ev
1436497;1458411855;hanbot;en if doing a quick lookup later
1436498;1458411883;hanbot;and from my own experience anyway, if you cut out some portion of what the man said it WILL come back to bite you
1436499;1458411989;hanbot;one could leave such things intact and merely trim actual offtopic...not sure if that'd actually be useful in the sense mod6 was looking for tho (also not sure it'd merit pay)
1436500;1458412021;mircea_popescu;i'd hire myself to shorten myself ; but then again i already do.
1436501;1458412039;hanbot;lol precisely.
1436502;1458412186;mircea_popescu;in other news, http://imgur.com/gallery/9901ndZ
1436503;1458412187;assbot;I can't beleaf it, all for me! - GIF on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1nXI7By )
1436504;1458413172;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436488 << this is an OOM condition.
1436505;1458413172;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 17:19:23; mod6: Does anyone else see these error messages running the latest trb (minus shiva)?  Looks to be in main.cpp:ProcessMessage around lines 1855:1913.  It doesn't look to me to be related to the malleus patch, but I could be wrong there.  Thoughts?  Seen the same in your logs?  Plz let us know.  http://dpaste.com/21PJMY4.txt
1436506;1458413178;asciilifeform;nonfatal, because the thing was written by tards
1436507;1458413195;asciilifeform;but a node that has experienced it cannot be assumed to be in a consistent state
1436508;1458413198;asciilifeform;and oughta be restarted
1436509;1458413211;asciilifeform;and in fact oom ought to be handled in the exception catcher as a fatal
1436510;1458413254;asciilifeform;in related nyooz, i discovered that one of my test trb boxen has been wedged, without any meaningful log noise whatsoever, for ~2wks
1436511;1458413282;asciilifeform;interestingly, it was among those NEVER exposed directly to the net, fed -connect directly from zoolag (on lan)
1436512;1458413332;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436494 << the idiocy of single-threaded block verification.
1436513;1458413332;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 18:16:17; thestringpuller: it's still pulling in transactions in the logs, but it's not receiving any blocks
1436514;1458413371;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436490 << you won't see this unless oom
1436515;1458413371;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 17:26:48; mircea_popescu: mod6 cat debug.log | grep "std::bad_alloc" yields nothing.
1436516;1458413374;asciilifeform;guaranteed.
1436517;1458413405;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436500 << shortening doesn't work. not if the material is any good to begin with, and author 'left out the parts people skip'
1436518;1458413405;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 18:27:01; mircea_popescu: i'd hire myself to shorten myself ; but then again i already do.
1436519;1458413696;asciilifeform;i still marvel at the idiocy of the existence of oom-without-oomkill
1436520;1458413705;asciilifeform;'sure it couldn't alloc but let's carry on'
1436521;1458413722;asciilifeform;what kind of liquid shit does a designer need to have for brains, or an os that allows this ?
1436522;1458413748;asciilifeform;i could even see a suspend-on-oom
1436523;1458413762;asciilifeform;but 'pretend nothing happened' ??
1436524;1458413770;asciilifeform;mind-boggling.
1436525;1458414694;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: do you have a solution for "stuck node" phenonemon?
1436526;1458414796;ben_vulpes;thestringpuller: kill -9
1436527;1458414837;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436484 << neat!
1436528;1458414837;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 14:50:34; asciilifeform: updated http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 with link to ben_vulpes's excellent manual, which i entirely forgot about.
1436529;1458414848;*;ben_vulpes runs to logs, sees an infinity percent increase in traffic
1436530;1458414872;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: nope, the only genuine solution would be multithreaded trb
1436531;1458415325;thestringpuller;fuck. i guess I'll just add watchdog and if logs don't have `ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED` in the last 60 minutes `kill -9 <pid>; ./startrb.sh`
1436532;1458415368;thestringpuller;if already nigga rigged, might as well duct tape the whole thing
1436533;1458415975;trinque;thestringpuller: where are you hosting
1436534;1458415986;thestringpuller;my house...
1436535;1458415995;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: said real nodes aren't hosted..........
1436536;1458416015;thestringpuller;they are run from closet in house
1436537;1458416023;trinque;the reason I ask is that my "stuck node" problems vanished when I left AWS.
1436538;1458416049;thestringpuller;ah. yea. I'm running on debian jessie a core 2 duo machine (older but not super old). but everytime thing gets "up to date" it stops asking for blocks
1436539;1458416060;thestringpuller;i honestly don't know if I can run as true full node
1436540;1458416078;thestringpuller;but then again I'm only connected to ascii's node right now to receive blocks
1436541;1458416968;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00042074 = 1.2201 BTC [+]
1436542;1458420713;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> interestingly, it was among those NEVER exposed directly to the net, fed -connect directly from zoolag << that IS interesting. wut ?!
1436543;1458420771;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> 'sure it couldn't alloc but let's carry on' << maybe it didn't really need it ?
1436544;1458420794;mircea_popescu;there's perfect reason for OS to allow it if code does. "couldn't load that picture - sorry", for instance.
1436545;1458420826;mircea_popescu;thestringpuller> if already nigga rigged, might as well duct tape the whole thing << that's actually not even the worst solution.
1436546;1458421394;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436542 << aha just sat there, hanging.
1436547;1458421394;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 20:51:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> interestingly, it was among those NEVER exposed directly to the net, fed -connect directly from zoolag << that IS interesting. wut ?!
1436548;1458421424;mircea_popescu;innerving.
1436549;1458421426;asciilifeform;not oom, nothing at all.
1436550;1458421444;asciilifeform;(box with 24G of ram, not even 1/4 full)
1436551;1458421481;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436543 << there is no provision for anything of the kind in trb, beyond the barbaric expedient of a tx which throws exception during processing simply not being stored
1436552;1458421481;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2016 20:52:51; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> 'sure it couldn't alloc but let's carry on' << maybe it didn't really need it ?
1436553;1458421541;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was being facetious, sorry for omitted quotes.
1436554;1458421550;mircea_popescu;"maybe it didn't really need it"
1436555;1458421732;asciilifeform;l0l
1436556;1458423877;mircea_popescu;and in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/5020de06eea1bc0543b5b4f0d8324ac0/tumblr_ntwpu9cgtb1tkka62o1_1280.jpg
1436557;1458423878;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RWohPm )
1436558;1458430876;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00041975 = 11.6271 BTC [-]
1436559;1458432615;mod6;hanbot: hmm, ok that makes some sense as far as the philosophical components.  i wonder if simply an index with pointers to indexed topic wouldn't just be something worthwhile.  i.e. "Discussion around MP's change requirements and keccak hash family => [LOG_URL_1] [LOG_URL_N] [...]"
1436560;1458432669;mod6;at minimum that could point a person in the right direction to find #b-a discussions in the log about said topic.
1436561;1458432675;mod6;thoughts on that?
1436562;1458432860;mod6;asciilifeform: about that error I saw, thanks for your insight.  I looked the other system logs to see if that was the issue, but didn't see the OOMKILL like I have before.  So I was thinking it wasn't related to that somehow.  Anyway, good to know.
1436563;1458432874;mod6;*looked at
1436564;1458432929;mod6;And beyond that, as you were saying, it didn't get oomkill'd, just kept right along going.  i think you're right, we should throw a fatal exception in the event of oom.
1436565;1458433834;asciilifeform;http://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/04_2_2.pdf << almost ideal case study of WHAT NOT TO DO omfg111111
1436566;1458433836;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1T225Z1 )
1436567;1458434287;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: lol
1436568;1458434353;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00041975 = 12.2987 BTC [-]
1436569;1458434537;BingoBoingo;In "lovedog" news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/a4-waist-challenge---new-trend-for-women-to-slim-down-to-thinner/
1436570;1458434539;assbot;A4 waist challenge - new trend for women to slim down to thinner than a sheet of paper ... ( http://bit.ly/1T23zTa )
1436571;1458447932;phf;installing gentoo is a special form of sadomasochism.
1436572;1458449603;mircea_popescu;best masochism of all david niven's masochisms, the one in which he keeps his eggs.
1436573;1458455118;phf;ok, not sure if anybody tried yet, but asciilifeform's gentoo chicken works as prescribed. in fact i tried installing unknown package that turned out to have a hard poettering dependency, and gentoo refused to proceed
1436574;1458455269;phf;i've managed a reiserfs/lilo combo, though genkernel claims that it doesn't work with reiserfs. uclibc vanilla failed on chroot step, ifconfig and all the other networking bits refused to work. perhaps i needed to grab a uclibc iso? in any case i proceeded witha glibc install for now
1436575;1458455775;BingoBoingo;https://i.imgur.com/FAY63Ar.jpg?1
1436576;1458455775;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1TY2hcT )
1436577;1458460286;BingoBoingo;!up koinplug
1436578;1458460313;koinplug;hi everyone
1436579;1458460330;koinplug;I have been looking at mpex and I think I'm misunderstanding something
1436580;1458460348;koinplug;in the feb statement it says there's 60 btc revenue from new accounts
1436581;1458460349;koinplug;http://trilema.com/2016/mpex-smpoe-february-2016-statement/
1436582;1458460350;assbot;MPEx (S.MPOE) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UI1ETH )
1436583;1458460381;koinplug;but http://mpex.co/faq.html says there's only one exchange address, 1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx
1436584;1458460382;assbot;MPEx, the Bitcoin securities exchange. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UI1Fad )
1436585;1458460403;koinplug;and that address has not received any payments in Feb
1436586;1458460449;koinplug;also the new accounts fee is 50 BTC, minus possibly 2x5 BTC for the affiliate fee, so multiples of 40 or 50 BTC. how can that add up to 60 BTC?
1436587;1458460547;koinplug;mircea_popescu?
1436588;1458461010;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32400 @ 0.00041934 = 13.5866 BTC [-] {2} 
1436589;1458466579;BingoBoingo;https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2015/jul/21/nothing-indicate-nothing-indicate-subject-had-any-/
1436590;1458466581;assbot;"Nothing to indicate the subject had any interest in any matter other than Mathematics” Paul Erdős FBI file ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsH9ev )
1436591;1458468269;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00041922 = 1.5092 BTC [-]
1436592;1458468567;punkman;koinplug: here is the relevant thread: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058365
1436593;1458468567;assbot;Logged on 19-03-2015 22:00:35; kakobrekla: was this addressed yet? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057811
1436594;1458468725;punkman;!up koinplug
1436595;1458469359;koinplug;thanks punkman that makes sense
1436596;1458469376;koinplug;but multiples of 40 or 50 btc can't add up to 60 btc?
1436597;1458469385;koinplug;unless it is being amortized for some reason?
1436598;1458469686;punkman;yeah not sure about that, maybe someone got a discount?
1436599;1458470154;punkman;heh http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-trumpets-860-million-ai-fund-after-alphago-shock-1.19595
1436600;1458470155;assbot;South Korea trumpets $860-million AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock' : Nature News & Comment ... ( http://bit.ly/1R7iEkQ )
1436601;1458481742;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] Tightly controlling the present. - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/tightly-controlling-the-present/
1436602;1458481993;mircea_popescu;;;later tell koinplug a) mpex also uses undisclosed addresses in special cases ; b) we have some old fixed-price contracts with some users who renew their key periodically.
1436603;1458481994;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1436604;1458482089;mircea_popescu;phf> ok, not sure if anybody tried yet, but asciilifeform's gentoo chicken works as prescribed << it does, yes, and it IS a very good and useful thing. almost makes me feel bad when mocking linuxen.
1436605;1458482283;mircea_popescu;and check it out, danielpbarron found peace in reading trilema!
1436606;1458483474;shinohai;dafuq is a gentoo chicken
1436607;1458484246;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436573 << congrats phf! this makes 2  known hard-sane gentootrons on planet3 now. others here encouraged to replicate. double-encouraged to replicate ~with musl~.
1436608;1458484246;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 06:25:18; phf: ok, not sure if anybody tried yet, but asciilifeform's gentoo chicken works as prescribed. in fact i tried installing unknown package that turned out to have a hard poettering dependency, and gentoo refused to proceed
1436609;1458484375;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436574 << most folks boot off a small (<=128m) ext3 for this reason
1436610;1458484375;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 06:27:49; phf: i've managed a reiserfs/lilo combo, though genkernel claims that it doesn't work with reiserfs. uclibc vanilla failed on chroot step, ifconfig and all the other networking bits refused to work. perhaps i needed to grab a uclibc iso? in any case i proceeded witha glibc install for now
1436611;1458484400;asciilifeform;and uclibc sucks
1436612;1458484420;asciilifeform;pretty much only fit for 'busybox' afaik
1436613;1458484525;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436589 << l0l check out the megatonne of censored bit
1436614;1458484525;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 09:36:19; BingoBoingo: https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2015/jul/21/nothing-indicate-nothing-indicate-subject-had-any-/
1436615;1458484636;asciilifeform;( most of the small chunks appear to conceal names of stoolies )
1436616;1458485120;danielpbarron;is mine one of the two? The box I'm using to test trb had already been a sane gentootron
1436617;1458485148;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: you used my config?
1436618;1458485235;danielpbarron;it'd using it now, you hadn't made that formal list at the time i did it
1436619;1458485303;asciilifeform;danielpbarron made same thing earlier? ( no dbus, etc. ) ? neato.
1436620;1458485366;asciilifeform;the point of my config was to stop the crud from getting pulled in by portage at every turn, which it otherwise does.
1436621;1458485593;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MG] 42954 @ 0.00009 = 3.8659 BTC [-]
1436622;1458485682;*;trinque has a similarly neutered personal recipe
1436623;1458485776;assbot;[MPEX] [S.NSA] 57279 @ 0.000085 = 4.8687 BTC [-]
1436624;1458486128;phf;asciilifeform: did you manage to get emacs to build on musl gentoo? (i.e. does the musl patches overlay include a solution for temacs dump process)
1436625;1458486245;phf;also anyone tried doing a kernel level key rebind before? is that just in config or you need to patch source. i want to switch some keys around, but i don't want to have to do it for every single userland environment
1436626;1458486824;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436624 << not tried yet. but expect this to fail.
1436627;1458486824;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 15:02:08; phf: asciilifeform: did you manage to get emacs to build on musl gentoo? (i.e. does the musl patches overlay include a solution for temacs dump process)
1436628;1458486869;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436625 << afaik there is no provision for this, because retardation
1436629;1458486869;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 15:04:05; phf: also anyone tried doing a kernel level key rebind before? is that just in config or you need to patch source. i want to switch some keys around, but i don't want to have to do it for every single userland environment
1436630;1458486880;asciilifeform;it desperately needs a cure
1436631;1458486918;asciilifeform;imho key rebinds should be processed ~when machine boots~
1436632;1458486926;asciilifeform;prior to whatever else
1436633;1458486960;asciilifeform;i end up rebinding keys in hardware when possible
1436634;1458486976;asciilifeform;because os is militantly retarded
1436635;1458486997;phf;right, linux root=/dev/foo kbrebind=10:20,40:50,etc.
1436636;1458487016;asciilifeform;ideally in lilo
1436637;1458487032;asciilifeform;i don't EVER want capslock to not be ctrl.
1436638;1458487039;asciilifeform;not in boot menu either.
1436639;1458487081;asciilifeform;hell i'd put it in bios if x86 had any provision for this
1436640;1458487109;asciilifeform;so it ends up going in the keyboard.
1436641;1458487142;phf;resolder hw
1436642;1458487180;asciilifeform;can't simply resolder
1436643;1458487187;asciilifeform;kbd had grid system
1436644;1458487215;asciilifeform;need own controller, or a cooperating one (e.g., northgate's)
1436645;1458487273;asciilifeform;but yes, kernel needs to have key rebind, to make laptop behave sanely
1436646;1458487348;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436622 << consider posting?
1436647;1458487348;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 14:54:42; *: trinque has a similarly neutered personal recipe
1436648;1458487449;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436602 << undisclosed addresses? unprincipled-exception from 'no such thing as taint' ?!!
1436649;1458487449;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 13:53:13; mircea_popescu: ;;later tell koinplug a) mpex also uses undisclosed addresses in special cases ; b) we have some old fixed-price contracts with some users who renew their key periodically.
1436650;1458487452;phf;seems like the kind of thing that would be worthwhile to diff against chicken
1436651;1458487475;phf;also i learned that gnutls depends on guile :o
1436652;1458487484;asciilifeform;phf: aha!
1436653;1458487522;phf;i don't remember homebrew pulling guile, so it's something gentoo specific. and putting -guile into useflags don't do notin
1436654;1458487535;asciilifeform;i started actually making a systematic list of exclusions, then barfed, really we want to enumerate ~good~ parts, they are few
1436655;1458487545;asciilifeform;phf: guile is an old scheme
1436656;1458487558;asciilifeform;used as a tinyscheme of sorts
1436657;1458487581;asciilifeform;iirc gimp once used it, but now has the latter
1436658;1458487661;phf;guile is the old warhorse of the "scheme in emacs!!" agenda, pretty sure even naggum ranted about it
1436659;1458487669;asciilifeform;aha
1436660;1458487682;asciilifeform;it is a turd incidentally
1436661;1458487691;asciilifeform;very heavy relativly to ts
1436662;1458487737;phf;right, even hardcore schemers (of the mit/scheme48 background) think it's pos
1436663;1458487769;asciilifeform;i have nfi what the upside of guile was supposed to be
1436664;1458487791;asciilifeform;iirc it ended up in various places because it had fsf copyright
1436665;1458487802;asciilifeform;and so politically favoured
1436666;1458487878;phf;there's a very vocal minority trying to get it into emacs as a replacement for elisp, you'll have an elisp emulation layer, but you can also have javascript emulation layer!!1
1436667;1458487947;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436653 << you gotta ~mask~ and flag. what this does is to guarantee that the thing won't be pulled, but at the same time allow other things that might be severable from the dependency to still build.
1436668;1458487947;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 15:25:22; phf: i don't remember homebrew pulling guile, so it's something gentoo specific. and putting -guile into useflags don't do notin
1436669;1458487969;phf;aah, hence crapolade
1436670;1458487976;asciilifeform;aha
1436671;1458488028;asciilifeform;and anything that fails to build after that, is not respecting the flag, and has to be either discarded or patched.
1436672;1458488047;asciilifeform;e.g., 'wireshark'
1436673;1458488065;asciilifeform;(for which NO substitute exists)
1436674;1458488282;phf;i assume it can be built with qt3, but it still hard depends on dbus? or you mean that it just requires patching
1436675;1458488340;asciilifeform;iirc dbus
1436676;1458488347;asciilifeform;needs a pill
1436677;1458488500;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436599 << 'us too! if usg can hand out $B to aggressive mediocrities, so can we!111'
1436678;1458488500;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 10:35:54; punkman: heh http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-trumpets-860-million-ai-fund-after-alphago-shock-1.19595
1436679;1458488538;mircea_popescu;hey, aggressive mediocrities ALWAYS fuck over neurotic geniuses / lazy talent.
1436680;1458488550;mircea_popescu;very safe bet.
1436681;1458488601;asciilifeform;no shit
1436682;1458488633;asciilifeform;and bacterium eats coward and hero just the same at the end of the war.
1436683;1458488837;mircea_popescu;unrelated matter.
1436684;1458488884;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436666 << elisp , and emacs as a whole , suck donkey balls. it is in many ways a microscopic model of how linux sucks, a turd for which NO replacement is available, so it is kept on life support at all costs .
1436685;1458488884;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 15:31:18; phf: there's a very vocal minority trying to get it into emacs as a replacement for elisp, you'll have an elisp emulation layer, but you can also have javascript emulation layer!!1
1436686;1458488979;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> hell i'd put it in bios if x86 had any provision for this <<< odd that the bios has provision for any and all retarded shits, including "power saving" but not for defining the buttons.
1436687;1458489021;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> iirc gimp once used it, but now has the latter << yea.
1436688;1458489021;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i use coreboot, and would put in what i want, but the ~hardware~ makes no provision
1436689;1458489046;mircea_popescu;right.
1436690;1458489049;asciilifeform;southbridge.
1436691;1458489065;mircea_popescu;good thing they implemented orc glyphs tho.
1436692;1458489069;mircea_popescu;THAT was a priority.
1436693;1458489096;asciilifeform;soo it goes in the kbd. luckily ps/2 is very simple to talk in, you can use , e.g., a 16f84
1436694;1458489128;asciilifeform;fiddycents of iron.
1436695;1458489256;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform  << undisclosed addresses? unprincipled-exception from 'no such thing as taint' ?!! << very principled. "no such thing as taint" means that i do not recognize the concept, or any reasoning that relies on it. it very pointedly does not mean i will behave in such a manner as to protect the taint assumptions of third parties but just the opposite.
1436696;1458489280;asciilifeform;waiwut
1436697;1458489310;asciilifeform;would that not mean ~refusing~ to use secret addrs?
1436698;1458489314;mircea_popescu;if you think that you can in any manner or for any purpose distinguish any bitcoin from any bitcoin we can't be friends.
1436699;1458489319;mircea_popescu;no, it wouldn't.
1436700;1458489374;mircea_popescu;just like not recognizing the institution of marriage doesn't mean you never marry. it means that you randomly and entirely unreliably marry.
1436701;1458489392;asciilifeform;ok now this makes sense.
1436702;1458489427;asciilifeform;could marry six times before breakfast.
1436703;1458490208;mircea_popescu;in other news, i had never discussed theology on a blog before. dat republic!
1436704;1458491388;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00041922 = 7.1687 BTC [-]
1436705;1458491504;thestringpuller;damn. this stuck node thing.....
1436706;1458491577;danielpbarron;!up bl00m
1436707;1458493177;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: post your debug.log tail ?
1436708;1458493406;thestringpuller;i'll have to grep it for when it stopped
1436709;1458493413;thestringpuller;receiving blocks
1436710;1458493842;mats;https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/356/why-hasnt-there-been-an-encryption-algorithm-that-is-based-on-the-known-np-hard
1436711;1458493844;assbot;complexity theory - Why hasn't there been an encryption algorithm that is based on the known NP-Hard problems? - Computer Science Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1nZDTcK )
1436712;1458493958;asciilifeform;mats: see old thread;
1436713;1458493977;mats;am posting in reference to thread
1436714;1458493990;asciilifeform;this is actually much harder than it appears, because there must also be a proof that the PARTICULAR INSTANCES of the problem you make use of are ~likewise~ of the worst AVERAGE CASE complexity
1436715;1458495522;mircea_popescu;moon proof!
1436716;1458495565;mircea_popescu;"i kept no records of the presumptions i made in constructing the subclass, therefore no such presumptions exist!"
1436717;1458495582;asciilifeform;aha, sop in what passes for 'cryptographic komyoooonity'
1436718;1458495611;mircea_popescu;then i get incensed when derps start with the "~~~~~I~~~~~ don't see how..."
1436719;1458495718;asciilifeform;see also the idiocy of 'nothing-up-my-sleeve constants'
1436720;1458495720;asciilifeform;e.g., aes
1436721;1458495728;mircea_popescu;un minimo respecto por el trabajador, i say.
1436722;1458496429;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu et al: incidentally, this edges into the definition of 'random', as per the 1,001 threads on subj. specifically, solving a problem ~you already know the solution to~ is O(1) in all cases!111
1436723;1458496455;asciilifeform;complexity is only defined for ~unknowns~
1436724;1458496478;asciilifeform;the 'unknownity' of which is not an attribute of ~them~ but of the ~system~ of them+yourhead
1436725;1458496858;phf;as manifest in every "my first crypto", this is so convoluted i can't grok it, surely nobody else can
1436726;1458497147;asciilifeform;phf: the mega-discovery (at least to me) last month is that this is ~still so~ for 'official' crypto
1436727;1458498479;phf;i have a hunch that this is not a conspiracy of incompetents, but rather an aspect of the whole knowing the unknown in relation to yourhead. i.e. stupid is not obscurantist for your benefit, but for own
1436728;1458498738;phf;very little thinking is going on, most of so called thinking is integration and regurgitation of past thinking, that trickles from occasional pockets where thinking happened. by the time one integrates that thinking one is disinclined to further think (for one is a ph.d. or whatever at that point). but any question can be grothendieck-ed if you're so inclined, to reveal and remove your systemd's and kdbus's
1436729;1458498768;asciilifeform;aha, this removal is imho ~the~ business.
1436730;1458498785;asciilifeform;see also the 'inventors - cut things' thread.
1436731;1458498827;asciilifeform;for some reason many folks focus on ~synthesis~ as the main act of productive thought
1436732;1458498837;asciilifeform;but this is a half-truth.
1436733;1458498844;asciilifeform;you gotta remove the crud first.
1436734;1458498848;asciilifeform;as in metallurgy.
1436735;1458500565;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The Brothers Grimsby - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/20/the-brothers-grimsby/
1436736;1458501514;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44462 @ 0.00041959 = 18.6558 BTC [+] {2} 
1436737;1458502244;mircea_popescu;phf the whole premise of bourgeois society is "me too". apprentice wizard "becoming" "just as good" as wizard. sons becoming just as good as fathers. seedling becoming just as tree as the tree.
1436738;1458502252;mircea_popescu;the unspoken part being, of course, "but better".
1436739;1458502274;mircea_popescu;such as : reading jane austen, just as good as falling in love, except cheaper and safer. no fluids involved.
1436740;1458502299;mircea_popescu;reading dickens, just as good as having a life. reading age of exploration crud, just as good as having travelled.
1436741;1458502322;mircea_popescu;going to unversity, just as good as thinking. fast food, just as good as food.
1436742;1458502378;mircea_popescu;no wonder and no explanation needed that darwin became such a religious lightning rod. theory of... "evolution". there's no evolution involved in darwinism, per se. a wasp today has "evolved" just as much and for just as long as jane austin "evolved".
1436743;1458502433;mircea_popescu;this pious fraud beset poor darwin all his life, and he pretty much perelman'd because of it.
1436744;1458502486;mircea_popescu;so then, in this perspective, balabusta (fat jewish housewife), who is absolutely the apotheosis of bourgeois society, will make clam chowder (just as good as) out of whatever it is she finds in her pantry, such as for instance beans.
1436745;1458502552;mircea_popescu;going to church, just as good as living well ; and then when going to church is too much trouble, going to protestant church "inside oneself" just as good as going to the proper one.
1436746;1458502591;mircea_popescu;(it wasn't good enough anyway - it was, don't you know, ~corrupt~!!!!. see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2016#1435480 for what "corruption" means and how that narrative plays.)
1436747;1458502591;assbot;Logged on 17-03-2016 21:09:58; mircea_popescu: anyway. by and large, the "cleanning out corruption" narrative is what happens to a colonized place, ie, after the top leadership was defeated.
1436748;1458502774;mircea_popescu;so of fucking course modernity would be unthinking, for which reason sterile, and centralizing, for which reason boring. it has to be, its aims require it, its basic tenets imply it.
1436749;1458502965;mircea_popescu;(if you think about it, worst cinematic villain line of all time, most insulting to "the gods" of the viewer ? "you will never be as good as me." o noes!)
1436750;1458503084;mircea_popescu;but in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/e68eb9884b89059401c939cae4d85bc7/tumblr_nqqiosB39o1twuavro1_1280.jpg
1436751;1458503088;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21C8RVx )
1436752;1458503104;asciilifeform;l0l! what is the old man wearing ?!
1436753;1458503113;asciilifeform;pants made from old bagpipe ?!
1436754;1458503139;mircea_popescu;clown costume ?
1436755;1458503169;mircea_popescu;oh and also : the definitive romania http://36.media.tumblr.com/d3e5c0ad09bffa6f2cc89a0cd749c032/tumblr_n8vifxwcK91sd6qo9o1_1280.jpg
1436756;1458503171;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21C8XfW )
1436757;1458503183;asciilifeform;l0lwut
1436758;1458503201;asciilifeform;definitive how?
1436759;1458503207;mircea_popescu;everything, EVERYTHING screams it. the odd attire of the brunette walking away. the facade of the apartment building. that ugly monkey bar set ; the thin grass, the inconvenient walkway. absolute item.
1436760;1458503228;asciilifeform;i'dve assumed ru
1436761;1458503229;mircea_popescu;the idiots sitting uncomfortably for fear of not being others' suckers...
1436762;1458503265;asciilifeform;and i have grass like this right here in my backyard!11
1436763;1458503273;mircea_popescu;(speaking of which, http://trilema.com/2011/povestea-celor-trei-imparati-smecheri-si-a-celor-trei-negustori-fraieri-fabula-in-versuri-ilustrata/ << about the most insulting to romanian sensibilities thing out there.
1436764;1458503274;assbot;Povestea celor trei imparati smecheri si a celor trei negustori fraieri - fabula in versuri ilustrata on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/25dHZjf )
1436765;1458503276;mircea_popescu;this is anathema.
1436766;1458503278;asciilifeform;and walkway right here in front...
1436767;1458503310;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform uneven ? bordered by some concrete margin of no apparent utility than to ensure it turns into a river if it rains ?
1436768;1458503317;asciilifeform;aha!
1436769;1458503317;mircea_popescu;the details are important.
1436770;1458503415;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform now i'd rather fancy to see this thing. pic it sometime.
1436771;1458503424;asciilifeform;actually no border, wtf
1436772;1458503429;asciilifeform;but still river, high groundwater
1436773;1458503429;mircea_popescu;heh.
1436774;1458503443;mircea_popescu;there's a difference between sfortunati and disgratiati.
1436775;1458503485;asciilifeform;waiwut
1436776;1458503567;mircea_popescu;(approx, unfortunate and good for nothing, respectively)
1436777;1458503576;asciilifeform;ah.
1436778;1458504203;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if you wanna lulz, http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-20.log.html#t20:01:39
1436779;1458504204;assbot;#Eulora log for Sunday, 2016-03-20 ... ( http://bit.ly/21Ca5jH )
1436780;1458504268;mircea_popescu;"eclypse" (some wanna-be c compiler for windows ?) never heard of jamfiles.
1436781;1458504280;asciilifeform;eclipse is not a compiler
1436782;1458504282;asciilifeform;it is text editor
1436783;1458504291;mircea_popescu;uh
1436784;1458504294;mircea_popescu;oh just ide ?
1436785;1458504294;asciilifeform;very bulky thing, written in java
1436786;1458504295;asciilifeform;aha
1436787;1458504319;mircea_popescu;ok... eclupse, some wanna-be ide for windows never heard o' jamfiles.
1436788;1458504329;asciilifeform;me neither
1436789;1458504349;trinque;boooooost
1436790;1458504349;asciilifeform;looks like a heathen gnumake ?
1436791;1458504350;mircea_popescu;make alternative!
1436792;1458504359;asciilifeform;l0l why.
1436793;1458504386;mircea_popescu;you know iirc boost builds via jam
1436794;1458504393;asciilifeform;itself, aha
1436795;1458504399;asciilifeform;but why use it for human work
1436796;1458504424;asciilifeform;(rotor invokes boost's jam thing but trb, recall, builds with ordinary gnumake)
1436797;1458504436;mircea_popescu;so then you DO know what it is!
1436798;1458504440;asciilifeform;apparently!
1436799;1458504443;asciilifeform;i mercifully forgot.
1436800;1458504444;mircea_popescu;soooo then....
1436801;1458504451;mircea_popescu;da fuck is the point of an ide that doesn't support things.
1436802;1458504461;asciilifeform;i wouldn't dream of using it for a project tho
1436803;1458504463;mircea_popescu;might as well use vi then, equally unaware of the world.
1436804;1458504464;asciilifeform;because wtf
1436805;1458504477;asciilifeform;and yeah eclipse is this thing where there are 10,001 plugins, prolly one of them eats it.
1436806;1458511174;mircea_popescu;it occurs rto me - someone should get google to make googlebot author a collection of jokes.
1436807;1458511187;mircea_popescu;possibly the one place for ai in intelligent discourse.
1436808;1458513103;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: every natural-language whateverthefuck attempt looked like, at best, RACTOR.
1436809;1458513111;asciilifeform;(and PARRY)
1436810;1458513119;mircea_popescu;aha
1436811;1458513126;asciilifeform;shannonizer cum lipstick.
1436812;1458513470;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00041995 = 5.9213 BTC [+]
1436813;1458513520;asciilifeform;holy shit, elgamal works for spammerz!??
1436814;1458514135;asciilifeform;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5867 << there is what, dozen of these, and i dun think they're all nubbins`..
1436815;1458514136;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 4 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdvTNC )
1436816;1458514229;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: looks like it may be due to -connect vs -addnode
1436817;1458514248;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: -connect lives and dies by the nodes you -connect'ed to
1436818;1458514267;thestringpuller;this, but I think it may have other behavior
1436819;1458514270;kakobrekla;bb comments confirm http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436209
1436820;1458514270;assbot;Logged on 18-03-2016 18:11:44; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435731 < not at all - i think there is some merit in the argument in the sense that bitbet will hardly survive the upset its going through now (which is actually devaluating the asset to be liquidated)
1436821;1458514271;asciilifeform;(it also results in a nearly useless node because nothing can ever connect to it)
1436822;1458514307;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: i used it just for syncing!
1436823;1458514325;thestringpuller;it worked just find connecting to ~your~ node for the last month and a half
1436824;1458514335;thestringpuller;once synced it was like "okay i'm done" and just stopped receiving blocks
1436825;1458514365;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: now this is interesting, and i would really like to see the log
1436826;1458514386;thestringpuller;one second
1436827;1458514516;thestringpuller;i really should patch this to rotate logs...
1436828;1458514519;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform dozens of whats ?
1436829;1458514524;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: of whiners
1436830;1458514543;asciilifeform;who, very reasonably, 'i put in coin and nothing came out, wtf'
1436831;1458514547;mircea_popescu;eh, the whole internet consists of people who think they can do things better than anyone ; and then can't do jack shit to save their lives.
1436832;1458514566;mircea_popescu;let them stop whining and get in the wot, administer receiverships, do things.
1436833;1458514579;mircea_popescu;opining from the side is both free and worthless.
1436834;1458514594;asciilifeform;'i put in a coin in the coke machine and nothing came out.' ' mircea_popescu: let them go to mechanic school, learn to fix machines...'
1436835;1458514597;hanbot;kakobrekla so in the process of protecting the shareholders from a 17 btc bill, you managed to destroy all their holdings and stick the bettors with a 13 btc or w/e it's going to end up. pretty sucky, innit?
1436836;1458514598;mircea_popescu;exactly.
1436837;1458514620;mircea_popescu;what the fuck, someone stands for the consumer, now ? fuck the consumer.
1436838;1458514651;mircea_popescu;abomination of mistaken history, fuck the consumer with a rusty nail plank.
1436839;1458514658;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: glbse was pretty good at fucking the consumer, and gox, etc. these were doing god's work ?!
1436840;1458514667;mircea_popescu;separate issues.
1436841;1458514671;asciilifeform;how's that
1436842;1458514708;mircea_popescu;surgeon and worm both excise dead tissue.
1436843;1458514711;asciilifeform;i mean, did they fuck somebody other than 'consumer', or they fucked with wrong kind of stick, or what.
1436844;1458514715;mircea_popescu;surgeon is surgeon ; worm is worm.
1436845;1458514770;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'Царь справедливый и тиран. Не одинаковы бывают. Так хлебопашец и кабан. По-разному поля взрыхляют.' << i found in yellowed vintage volume of transl. of persian poetry to ru, as a kid
1436846;1458514783;mircea_popescu;but i ~am~ well impressed by the proposition. i suppose coming up next is, "asciilifeform and poettering both write software".
1436847;1458514793;asciilifeform;the ploughman and the boar!11
1436848;1458515012;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: unfortunately i haven't found a way to truncate this log
1436849;1458515029;kakobrekla;hanbot lolwat, i managed to destroy? do you recall writing https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0 (especially point 0)
1436850;1458515030;assbot;So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right? ... ( http://bit.ly/1MVvoFd )
1436851;1458515143;hanbot;yes, i recall
1436852;1458515181;kakobrekla;cool, so you are aware that you cant have responsibility without liability
1436853;1458515216;hanbot;get to the point?
1436854;1458515228;*;nubbins` lols at hanbot
1436855;1458515234;nubbins`;dat cog diss
1436856;1458515284;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5867 << there is what, dozen of these, and i dun think they're all nubbins`.. << why does everyone labour under the impression that i think about any of this shit while i'm not here?
1436857;1458515337;nubbins`;i give precisely, literally, zero fucks about anything to do with bitbet, mp, etc
1436858;1458515344;kakobrekla;the point is that i agreed to do bitbet back then as long as mp is responsible and liable for bitcoins (as per thread - i refused to handle them)- which he no longer wants to be
1436859;1458515380;kakobrekla;if there is no liability its much easier to fuck up the coins myself
1436860;1458515382;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: i might be too 'young' for this. how did it go that you 'refused to handle them' ?
1436861;1458515389;hanbot;mm, mk.
1436862;1458515439;asciilifeform;nubbins`: when precisely did you give your last fuck ?
1436863;1458515467;mircea_popescu;in other news video cards can apparently die. who knew.
1436864;1458515482;kakobrekla;asciilifeform we discussed various models of bitbet operations, one of mps suggestions was that i hold the btc and flush the deposits over to him occasionally or somesuch which i refused and suggested he gives me a huge list of his address which i will be handing out
1436865;1458515482;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nvidia is ~really~ good at death
1436866;1458515523;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: typically bga is the culprit. thermal flex waltzes the balls loose.
1436867;1458515528;asciilifeform;and you only need to loosen one.
1436868;1458515548;nubbins`;asciilifeform in general or on said topics?
1436869;1458515552;mircea_popescu;and replacement is fucking up the monitor. apparently, can't have previous mode because it puts it out of bounds
1436870;1458515574;mircea_popescu;holy shit nothing works.
1436871;1458515579;asciilifeform;nubbins`: on subj
1436872;1458515590;nubbins`;never
1436873;1458515596;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: whaddayamean you don't have 5 identical replacements for every part!111
1436874;1458515607;mircea_popescu;apparently identical is not a thing.
1436875;1458515608;asciilifeform;what kind of dirigible warehouse is that!
1436876;1458515613;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1436877;1458515622;asciilifeform;even asciilifeform has this nailed
1436878;1458515632;mircea_popescu;goody for him ?
1436879;1458515644;asciilifeform;just pointing out, mircea_popescu ought have a stern talk with his supplier.
1436880;1458515659;mircea_popescu;have a stern talk with the notion of computing, rather.
1436881;1458515702;asciilifeform;normally i'm the one who immediately 'notion of computing!11'
1436882;1458515706;asciilifeform;but how does that plug in here ?
1436883;1458515811;mircea_popescu;i'm starting to notice that most insufferable things and people i ever ran across were computers and computer experts.
1436884;1458515818;mircea_popescu;politicians are by comparison pleasant.
1436885;1458515938;asciilifeform;programmer has uniquely unpleasant profession, in the sense that even coal miner enters into a kind of numb routine, but with computer you can be gangbanged into a different orifice that you never knew you had, every day
1436886;1458515948;mircea_popescu;apparently.
1436887;1458516032;hanbot;kakobrekla from the outside, all that's seen is you going gotta protect the shareholders!!1 and a week later the shareholders are fucked...and the customers are boiling. not that i expect you to take responsibility rather than talk about it, but you've fucked up.
1436888;1458516070;asciilifeform;didn't mircea_popescu just explain that the customers are the mold in the cheese and don't really matter ?
1436889;1458516075;kakobrekla;hanbot to quote you: The k factor comes from the specified nature of the business (ie, BTC business). In order to be able to offer BTC business you must at a minimum be able to correctly and safely handle payments.
1436890;1458516094;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00041893 = 36.4888 BTC [-] {3} 
1436891;1458516201;mircea_popescu;let it be stated that i don't wish asciilifeform to be doing any interpreting of what i've said after i'm dead.
1436892;1458516207;hanbot;asciilifeform he said that they're more than welcome to do something other than whine eh?
1436893;1458516220;mircea_popescu;i'd rather alphago do it.
1436894;1458516226;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i intend to be dead first !111
1436895;1458516338;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7759 @ 0.00041886 = 3.2499 BTC [-]
1436896;1458516780;kakobrekla;hanbot please enlighten me how and why should i take responsibility for mps double payment of which i was aware of only after the fact?
1436897;1458516848;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, http://gustaf.thorslund.org/src/allegra/doc/allegra.html
1436898;1458516849;assbot;The Allegra Info-Bot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbRoRh )
1436899;1458516866;asciilifeform;^ a 'gribble'-like animal in ada.
1436900;1458516985;hanbot;nah, take responsibility for the following thing: "i, kakobrekla, turned the situation where the shareholders owed 17 btc and had credit to repay it in the future, into a situation where the shareholders have nothing, and the bettors owe at least 13 btc, if not more. this is the best i could do, hire me and i'll do the same for you."
1436901;1458517141;nubbins`;there was no situation where the shareholders owed 17 btc
1436902;1458517146;nubbins`;that's a fiction
1436903;1458517149;nubbins`;hallucinated by mp
1436904;1458517172;nubbins`;so, no, he didn't turn a situation from that into anything.
1436905;1458517180;kakobrekla;or maybe mp can go "i, mp, have through a series of mistakes made a double payment and will now pretend it was a chinese conspiracy, say publicly i did it masochistically but actually bill it sadistically to the company as a made up war expense"
1436906;1458517183;nubbins`;you need to take a course in basic logic
1436907;1458517220;nubbins`;kakobrekla i could've told you last week that they'd fever-dream their way through this
1436908;1458517231;nubbins`;must be humiliating
1436909;1458517241;nubbins`;having to blatantly spout nonsense
1436910;1458517273;nubbins`;altho i guess it's mostly a show for folks that don't go back and read the logs
1436911;1458517586;oglafbot;http://oglaf.com/survival/
1436912;1458517587;assbot;Survival* ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbS9Kg )
1436913;1458517679;mircea_popescu;o.O
1436914;1458517707;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla you ~know~ this happened ?
1436915;1458517743;kakobrekla;which?
1436916;1458517748;kakobrekla;i know this http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436889
1436917;1458517748;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 23:21:15; kakobrekla: hanbot to quote you: The k factor comes from the specified nature of the business (ie, BTC business). In order to be able to offer BTC business you must at a minimum be able to correctly and safely handle payments.
1436918;1458517819;mircea_popescu;looky, that nonsense isn't going to snivel into factuality just because butthurt. chinese miner conspiracy is a fact, undisputed and accepted as such.
1436919;1458517835;kakobrekla;surely
1436920;1458517852;mircea_popescu;now then. that you or anyone else "dunno, wasn't there, whatever", it's one thing.
1436921;1458517873;mircea_popescu;but "i dunno, wasn't there, don't believe" does not actually enact anything. it's just the typical position of the scholar withdrawing from the world.
1436922;1458517884;kakobrekla;(surely was sarcastic btw)
1436923;1458517931;mircea_popescu;tough tits, it's what it is.
1436924;1458517945;kakobrekla;anyway, even if ufos delete your private keys you cant just put it on the company
1436925;1458517962;kakobrekla;or else its much easier for me to ufos delete my private keys for it
1436926;1458517979;mircea_popescu;that has exactly nothing to do with the discussion, so let's let it be.
1436927;1458517992;kakobrekla;o but it has.
1436928;1458518078;kakobrekla;if nothing else it brings about a bad set of incentives.
1436929;1458518134;mircea_popescu;looky : part of your trying to cope with hanbot's deriding your peculiar notion of responsibility was to come hide under my skirts. i said plox don't come hide under my skirts. that's all.
1436930;1458518222;kakobrekla;so you are saying you can have responsibility without liability?
1436931;1458518252;kakobrekla;(yes or no answer will do)
1436932;1458518296;mircea_popescu;i am saying that whatever you're talking to her about, stick to it an' let me be.
1436933;1458518342;kakobrekla;will do my best!
1436934;1458518804;nubbins`;!s looky from:nubbins`
1436935;1458518804;assbot;6 results for 'looky from:nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=looky+from%3Anubbins%60
1436936;1458518816;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-03-2016#1426141
1436937;1458518816;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 00:21:18; nubbins`: if i had a satoshi for every time mp said "looky" when he'd lost an argument, i'd be able to donate a tx fee to bitbet
1436938;1458524523;nubbins`;asciilifeform why would you assume in the first place that all these random comments on bitbet are me instead of the various angry parties to whom bitbet owes money?
1436939;1458524546;*;nubbins` searches memory for rational reasons why alf would think this, comes up blank
1436940;1458524560;asciilifeform;nubbins`: and 'taleb' was not you ?
1436941;1458524603;nubbins`;ask mp, he's the one with all the insider knowledge
1436942;1458524631;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2016#1436918 << now i'll bite, ~where~ uncontroversial ? at mircea_popescu's house ?
1436943;1458524631;assbot;Logged on 20-03-2016 23:50:19; mircea_popescu: looky, that nonsense isn't going to snivel into factuality just because butthurt. chinese miner conspiracy is a fact, undisputed and accepted as such.
1436944;1458524638;asciilifeform;where undisputed ?
1436945;1458524669;nubbins`;lel.
1436946;1458524679;nubbins`;in the fifth dimension.
1436947;1458524686;nubbins`;are we all drunk here?
1436948;1458524689;nubbins`;or what?
1436949;1458524753;nubbins`;maybe he means undisputed here: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE
1436950;1458524755;assbot;S.MPOE last 7759@0.00041886 ... ( http://bit.ly/1USv0yT )
1436951;1458524854;nubbins`;but in complete seriousness, yes, uncontroversial and undisputed at mp's house.
1436952;1458524960;nubbins`;see hanbot's intensely boring, factless, hyperbole-filled rants and jabs for reference
1436953;1458525000;asciilifeform;nubbins`: for a fella who gave his last fuck, you seem pretty excited
1436954;1458525009;nubbins`;but what else do you expect from someone whose only skills are being a loudmouth and losing money
1436955;1458525020;nubbins`;asciilifeform don't mistake verbosity for excitement
1436956;1458525024;asciilifeform;l0l
1436957;1458525053;nubbins`;10 words a minute is excited now |0|
1436958;1458525098;nubbins`;asciilifeform: did mpoe-pr "give a fuck" about the scammers she skewered on the forums?
1436959;1458525222;nubbins`;or was she just reminding them that bullshit has a specific taste?
1436960;1458525607;mats;nubbins` is rapidly approaching 1.5k lines over two weeks about the same damn topic
1436961;1458525620;mats;pls no more
1436962;1458525643;nubbins`;hey, i walked into a conversation already happening
1436963;1458526093;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform everywhere. got published in teh gazette, received exactly no disputation, it's what it is.
1436964;1458526116;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: everywhere?!
1436965;1458526142;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when i asked 'why is miner collusion a necessary hypothesis to explain the bbet reactor melt' i got argumentum ad dirigible.
1436966;1458526185;mats;you have been stoking the same burning pile of shit for two weeks
1436967;1458526206;asciilifeform;mats: and chernobyl for 30 yrs. what of it.
1436968;1458526222;mats;you didn't walk into anything, the noise in here is your doing
1436969;1458526223;nubbins`;mats in fact i came back here after quite an absence and found the shit still on fire
1436970;1458526229;nubbins`;lol.
1436971;1458526240;nubbins`;the noise is my doing by calling mp a scammer? yes, fair enough.
1436972;1458526271;nubbins`;however, there stands bitbet in the state it's in. you saying that mp threw in the towel because i bullied him into it?
1436973;1458526285;mats;it isn't the allegation, it is the 1000x repetition that i'm looking at
1436974;1458526317;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and you see a problem with that ?
1436975;1458526329;nubbins`;mats go back and read yesterday's log
1436976;1458526332;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: with argumentum ad dirigible ? yes.
1436977;1458526342;nubbins`;only reason i bothered to chip in was to smother hanbot's hallucinations
1436978;1458526352;nubbins`;you don't like it, put me on ignore
1436979;1458526361;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is the 'secret trial with secret evidence' thing again.
1436980;1458526394;asciilifeform;i mean, mircea_popescu can do whatever he likes with his toys, but let's not pretend that the matter was settled as some kind of actual argument in the phorum
1436981;1458526397;mircea_popescu;understand how matters of fact work. judge sits down, lets the witness in. witness tells a story. bystanders ask whatever the fuck questions they want. witness answers if he feels like it, and remembers, and has anything to say. at the end of the day, bystanders can as pompously as they wish declare they're not coinvinced. matters not one iota. either better theory is formed, or the thing stands.
1436982;1458526415;mircea_popescu;there isn't available this "exit by reservation". it's a personal pretense, nothing more.
1436983;1458526420;nubbins`;mp uses the broadest analogies possible, hey?
1436984;1458526424;asciilifeform;i have the better theory. what do i need to do, arrange the sybils personally, nuke other tx ?
1436985;1458526436;nubbins`;asciilifeform logic has no place here
1436986;1458526441;asciilifeform;no 'by reservation', but by specific hypothesis.
1436987;1458526452;nubbins`;mats shouldn't you be telling alf to stfu?
1436988;1458526453;mircea_popescu;would have helped to write it down. as the original article asked, as the rebuff to the original nubbins` said, and so on. two weeks ago, whatever.
1436989;1458526478;nubbins`;^ you didn't put it in a TPS report, in other words
1436990;1458526481;nubbins`;so he missed the memo
1436991;1458526599;mats;alf is not grandstanding.
1436992;1458526629;mircea_popescu;is that twerp still begging for attention ?
1436993;1458526632;mats;nor making use of the matter as an opportunity to air grievances
1436994;1458526678;nubbins`;mm hmm
1436995;1458526688;asciilifeform;i dun have grievances, l0l. well possibly other than the promised snow did not come, i was gonna play go under the blooming sakuras ~in motherfucking snow~ and no go. but afaik mircea_popescu is not responsible for this.
1436996;1458526712;nubbins`;alf is in a weird spot where he obviously feels that mp is hallucinating but doesn't want to press the issue
1436997;1458526730;mircea_popescu;that'd be global warming's fault neh ?
1436998;1458526750;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: global worming.
1436999;1458526806;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what i'd like is for him to share the lsd!
1437000;1458526824;nubbins`;asciilifeform iirc i offered you some a while back but we decided you wouldn't take it
1437001;1458526838;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i want what mircea_popescu took.
1437002;1458526857;nubbins`;no, i don't think you do
1437003;1458526866;nubbins`;you want what mcafee took too?!
1437004;1458526905;nubbins`;vexual?!
1437005;1458526912;asciilifeform;nah just mircea_popescu
1437006;1458526936;asciilifeform;nubbins`: mcafee and vexual are drooling in a ditch, but mircea_popescu throws garbage trucks !
1437007;1458526963;nubbins`;vexual once signed a ~1k btc address for me, hey?
1437008;1458527015;asciilifeform;i did not say he was drooling in a ditch penniless, did i.
1437009;1458527017;nubbins`;i kid, of course.
1437010;1458527029;nubbins`;but i do suspect on a ~10% probability that he's satoshi
1437011;1458527134;mircea_popescu;say wut asciilifeform ?
1437012;1458527157;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was nubbins thread
1437013;1458527172;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you have him killfiled, you will see oddities
1437014;1458527225;mircea_popescu;so basically, you're going to dump garbage at me because you have a strange passion for nubbins` ? you imagine this is a way to behave or something ?
1437015;1458527255;mircea_popescu;seriously now. in what conception of society do you see this to make sense ?
1437016;1458527258;nubbins`;how dare you speak to an untouchable!
1437017;1458527263;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i missed the 'don't talk to folks mircea_popescu killfiled' rule in the handbook ?
1437018;1458527283;nubbins`;asciilifeform you missed the "do as mp says" rule?!?!
1437019;1458527296;nubbins`;but that's the whole point of this place
1437020;1458527304;mircea_popescu;these two things are the same thing iyo ?
1437021;1458527340;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unless i missed something, fella's technically still 'lord', and belongs in the forum, neh ?
1437022;1458527351;asciilifeform;or was he formally lowered into pederasty and i missed ?
1437023;1458527364;mircea_popescu;i can't distinguish if you are genuinely missing something, or not. which is why i ask you.
1437024;1458527372;asciilifeform;and yes he's annoying
1437025;1458527373;nubbins`;asciilifeform i think he's saying that you're not allowed to talk about mp with me
1437026;1458527391;mircea_popescu;so then why the fuck are you spamming me nonsense!
1437027;1458527430;mircea_popescu;how exactly did you judge the cost function of not spamming mp nonsense so it came below the value of talking to nubbins` ? i wish to know, explain this to me.
1437028;1458527450;mircea_popescu;"to my eyes, wasting mp's time is worth so much less than entertaining vexual that there's no contest".
1437029;1458527453;mircea_popescu;you gonna sign that ?
1437030;1458527469;asciilifeform;let's try a test: mirceа_popеscu
1437031;1458527474;mircea_popescu;what the fuck am i, in this incredibly infantile, and deeply ustardian conception of the world ? free for the taking or something ?
1437032;1458527477;mircea_popescu;blergh.
1437033;1458527479;asciilifeform;^ did that set off the bell in mircea_popescu's irctron ?
1437034;1458527484;mircea_popescu;of course ?
1437035;1458527523;asciilifeform;srsly ?
1437036;1458527523;mircea_popescu;so to sum it up : i'd like you to show me the fucking common courtesy of considering whether next time you highlight me, i could in any conceivable manner have any interest in whatever is in there.
1437037;1458527532;nubbins`;lololol.
1437038;1458527538;mircea_popescu;and it is deeply shameful, for you, that i have to tell you this.
1437039;1458527540;nubbins`;the edict is issued: speak not of mircea_popescu to nubbins`
1437040;1458527550;nubbins`;this is so cringey
1437041;1458527564;asciilifeform;speak only of m1rc34_p0p3scu to nubbins`, possible.
1437042;1458527568;asciilifeform;but whatevers.
1437043;1458527573;*;asciilifeform off to eat food
1437044;1458527664;*;nubbins` off to do things that matter
1437045;1458529607;asciilifeform;!up zdm
1437046;1458529624;zdm;Hello
1437047;1458529653;asciilifeform;who might you be, zdm ?
1437048;1458529672;zdm;Just an internet stranger
1437049;1458529683;zdm;Been reading a lot of loper-os.org posts
1437050;1458531940;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/nSGUC
1437051;1458538847;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8701 @ 0.00041886 = 3.6445 BTC [-]
1437052;1458542978;BingoBoingo;http://www.plateoftheday.com/food_blog/brownie.gif
1437053;1458542980;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1MiTJKY )
1437054;1458543875;punkman;http://www.polymagnet.com/polymagnets/
1437055;1458543876;assbot;Polymagnets - Correlated Magnetics ... ( http://bit.ly/22xRQyf )
1437056;1458544514;hanbot;mod6 index idea could work, obvs hinges on whether i manage to organize something more precise/inclusive than a keyword grep'd put out. i'll look at it tomorrow/tues and report back.
1437057;1458544581;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27950 @ 0.00041707 = 11.6571 BTC [-]
1437058;1458545817;deedbot-;[Qntra] Roger VERified Outlet Gets Into Ether Huffing - http://qntra.net/2016/03/roger-verified-outlet-gets-into-ether-huffing/
1437059;1458546191;mircea_popescu;hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ?
1437060;1458546208;mircea_popescu;dunno that it'd fix anything per se, but perhaps give us the tools to better approach the problem ? dunno.
1437061;1458546280;mircea_popescu;technically this exists already, actually, we could do tag-gossipd-cipher and then http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=%22tag-gossipd-cipher%22
1437062;1458546281;assbot;0 results for '"tag-gossipd-cipher"' - #bitcoin-assets search
1437063;1458546349;BingoBoingo;lol be praised http://qntra.net/2016/03/woe-getting-business-internet-a-challenge-in-heart-of-silicon-valley/#comment-49211
1437064;1458546351;assbot;Woe: Getting Business Internet A Challenge In Heart Of Silicon Valley | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22rwiGN )
1437065;1458546435;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i have traveled to africa. unless one means specially designated experimental lab (some towns in south africa etc), internet connection is poor.
1437066;1458546477;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I cannot help the lulz that commenters bring, but I can appreciate them
1437067;1458546485;mircea_popescu;tru.
1437068;1458546734;BingoBoingo;Also in the latest qntra the Union flag as ether rag is apparently a srs thing, except they call it the "American" flag
1437069;1458546743;BingoBoingo;fucking yankees
1437070;1458546833;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1437071;1458546836;gribble;Current Blocks: 403600 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 1615 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1437072;1458546840;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1437073;1458546840;gribble;1140007245.47
1437074;1458546850;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1437075;1458546857;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 407.04, vol: 2161.73180920 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 410.998, vol: 3253.80324 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 407.98, vol: 5531.21963537 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 400.01, vol: 2.5 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 412.206, vol: 22003.15730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 407.9, vol: 866.4854354 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 410.166468, vol: 10.65217551 | Volume-weighted last average: 410.956904542
1437076;1458549673;deedbot-;[Trilema] Slums of Beverly Hills - http://trilema.com/2016/slums-of-beverly-hills/
1437077;1458561650;BingoBoingo;gribble seems a bit under the weather today
1437078;1458561653;BingoBoingo;;;goxlag
1437079;1458561653;gribble;Error: "goxlag" is not a valid command.
1437080;1458561661;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1437081;1458561664;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1437082;1458561667;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1437083;1458561668;gribble;Current Blocks: 403624 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 1591 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 1 hour, 16 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1437084;1458561669;gribble;1134139562.46
1437085;1458561669;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 408.49, vol: 2712.98115715 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 411.373, vol: 4067.4134 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 408.44, vol: 5606.41583417 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 400.01, vol: 2.5 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 413.89005, vol: 21416.36470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 408.807, vol: 949.43468092 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 410.885946, vol: 7.94305105 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1437086;1458561675;BingoBoingo;;;more
1437087;1458561675;gribble;412.154645761
1437088;1458562150;assbot;[MPEX] [S.NSA] 250000 @ 0.000085 = 21.25 BTC [-]
1437089;1458562333;assbot;[MPEX] [S.NSA] 147392 @ 0.000085 = 12.5283 BTC [-]
1437090;1458562540;BingoBoingo;!t m s.nsa
1437091;1458562540;assbot;[MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000085 / 0.000085 / 0.000085 (454671 shares, 38.65 BTC), 7D: 0.000085 / 0.000085 / 0.000085 (454671 shares, 38.65 BTC), 30D: 0.000085 / 0.000085 / 0.000086 (457671 shares, 38.90 BTC)
1437092;1458563723;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437054 <<< logz!1111 >>> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-12-2015#1336224 << the mega-thread re inqtel (cia-operated hedge fund)
1437093;1458563723;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 07:04:35; punkman: http://www.polymagnet.com/polymagnets/
1437094;1458563723;assbot;Logged on 04-12-2015 04:06:08; asciilifeform: aaand this oddity, http://www.polymagnet.com
1437095;1458564287;*;BingoBoingo just figured the polymagnet thing was jsut the new "broken glass"
1437096;1458564292;BingoBoingo;But shittier
1437097;1458564314;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437059 << fixing the search so it actually behaves sanely (EQUIVALENT TO GREP) would be almost as useful
1437098;1458564314;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 07:43:11; mircea_popescu: hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ?
1437099;1458564348;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: go buy and test, they are sold
1437100;1458564375;asciilifeform;a hundy or so gets you a dozen kinds iirc
1437101;1458565200;assbot;[MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 50000 @ 0.000209 = 10.45 BTC [-]
1437102;1458565352;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437065 << usaschwitz contains an africa : vast expanse of martian wasteland ~nobody gives half a shit about. it also contains a westerneurope: buncha decayed overcivilized folk with excess money that 'has to be harvested back from them or hyperinflation comes'. each of these prison zones gets abysmal net pipe for own reason.
1437103;1458565352;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 07:47:15; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i have traveled to africa. unless one means specially designated experimental lab (some towns in south africa etc), internet connection is poor.
1437104;1458565476;asciilifeform;i live in the 'harvester'; BingoBoingo, i think - mars.
1437105;1458565564;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437052 << no copro!111 l0l
1437106;1458565564;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 06:49:38; BingoBoingo: http://www.plateoftheday.com/food_blog/brownie.gif
1437107;1458566039;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: They are having a hard time hiding the recycling nowadays
1437108;1458566359;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00041764 = 1.7541 BTC [+]
1437109;1458566640;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: shouldn't debug.log be rotated?
1437110;1458566650;thestringpuller;my debug.log file is now 200 megs
1437111;1458566658;thestringpuller;manual process daily to rotate?!?
1437112;1458566850;jurov;what manual? learn to set up logrotate, it's not so hard
1437113;1458566930;shinohai;mv debug.log logs/$(date -d "today" +"%Y%m%d%H%M").log
1437114;1458567133;thestringpuller;aha logrotate
1437115;1458568102;shinohai;http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ubuntubsd-first-release   <<< I think I threw up a little when I read this.
1437116;1458568103;assbot;UbuntuBSD Brings Ubuntu Atop The FreeBSD Kernel - Phoronix ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj8A88 )
1437117;1458569819;jurov;shinohai: how did random pieces of software and wetware end up affecting your digestion?
1437118;1458569874;shinohai;Marrying Ubuntu to anything makes me slightly queasy.
1437119;1458569935;jurov;sounds like ubuntu was your precious daughter
1437120;1458570055;BingoBoingo;!b 2
1437121;1458570055;assbot;Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/25N0KYV.txt )
1437122;1458570677;nubbins`;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387250.msg14270969#msg14270969 <<  couple of process pictures from latest poster run
1437123;1458570679;assbot;[35/100] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [UPDATED DESIGN FOR 2016] ... ( http://bit.ly/1ScXeSA )
1437124;1458571019;mircea_popescu;actually ubuntu sounds like a pretty decent name for the chicks BingoBoingo links.
1437125;1458571037;shinohai;lol
1437126;1458571082;mircea_popescu;"way down deep in the middle of the jungle a hippo humped a manatee and spawned a scary daughter - i know, we'll call her ubuntu!"
1437127;1458571109;nubbins`;;;seen funkenstein
1437128;1458571109;gribble;funkenstein was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 1 week, 0 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <funkenstein> !register 6B0D10D1878DE25B4DA2695AB2B6360488298AB6
1437129;1458571156;nubbins`;;;later tell funkenstein_ references to bezzlars removed! ^
1437130;1458571156;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1437131;1458571593;BingoBoingo;!up jjb1212
1437132;1458571727;assbot;[MPEX] [S.NSA] 42429 @ 0.000085 = 3.6065 BTC [-]
1437133;1458571969;asciilifeform;'The inaugural release of UbuntuBSD is now available, which the developers have codenamed "Escape From SystemD", and pairs the Ubuntu userspace with the FreeBSD kernel. ' << l0l!
1437134;1458571996;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437115 << folks with a crapple box are in for a treat when viewing this link
1437135;1458571996;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 13:48:22; shinohai: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ubuntubsd-first-release   <<< I think I threw up a little when I read this.
1437136;1458572023;asciilifeform;(pops up a spam with 'your browser is infected!111 call this toll free number!11 complete with faux 'bsod' with vague mac theme, etc)
1437137;1458572078;asciilifeform;^ was 'malvertising', could not replicate for screenshot
1437138;1458572154;phf;http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2016/03/open-letter-devoted-party-members-urge-xis-resignation/ is shit going down in china?
1437139;1458572156;assbot;Loyal Party Members Urge Xi's Resignation - China Digital Times (CDT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1T45qXA )
1437140;1458572292;asciilifeform;phf: dirty emigre press
1437141;1458572295;BingoBoingo;lol http://qntra.net/2016/03/roger-verified-outlet-gets-into-ether-huffing/#comment-49226
1437142;1458572296;assbot;Roger VERified Outlet Gets Into Ether Huffing | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sd01v1 )
1437143;1458573217;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/Cc4Gx WIN
1437144;1458573354;*;asciilifeform learns that there is/was some linux distro called... Pidora. almost fell off his chair.
1437145;1458573470;phf;rpi fedora, that's apropos naming right there
1437146;1458573561;asciilifeform;oughta be renamed to 'pedora' so that engl. speakerz might make sense of the true meaning!11
1437147;1458574503;jurov;have you ever explained how this really relates to pederasty?
1437148;1458574594;jurov;ah, it's in the logs, the prison thing
1437149;1458574794;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ? << This could work -- it's in the vein of the 'BUTTSECKS' flag.  Which seems simple enough.  And the given topic-'tag' is a decent idea, i.e. 'OOM' or 'Cramer-Shoup' or 'keccak'
1437150;1458574857;trinque;pffflol, dat variety speak!
1437151;1458574882;trinque;I'm open to something like that; I've been doing a lot of work on deedbot lately
1437152;1458574932;trinque;the cl-irc rewrite is nearly done... among other things, it can now, you know, stay online!
1437153;1458576457;davout;I lol'd at bitbet's first bet: https://bitbet.us/bet/1
1437154;1458576457;assbot;BitBet - Usagi FTW :: 0.11 B (14%) on Yes, 0.68 B (86%) on No | closed 3 years 6 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1XHvHKw )
1437155;1458576561;BingoBoingo;lol
1437156;1458576577;BingoBoingo;more innocent times
1437157;1458576623;BingoBoingo;When middled aged teacher (or whatever) who thought they were japanese teenage girls were the biggest threat model
1437158;1458576660;mod6;trinque: nice!
1437159;1458576971;asciilifeform;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5875 << mega-wankatron
1437160;1458576972;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 5 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1pXwgVL )
1437161;1458579418;jurov;https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11317378 asciilifeform apparently you're not censored there anymore?
1437162;1458579419;assbot;Vectored Signatures | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1pvFQi8 )
1437163;1458579479;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437161 << mega-l0l! which one of you jokers posted.
1437164;1458579479;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 16:56:58; jurov: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11317378 asciilifeform apparently you're not censored there anymore?
1437165;1458579529;jurov;i don't have acct there, not interested so much as to solve their impossible captchas
1437166;1458579586;asciilifeform;they didn't even ~have~ captchas last time i logged in...
1437167;1458579597;jurov;not login, registration
1437168;1458579611;asciilifeform;ah
1437169;1458579719;asciilifeform;at any rate, to nobody's great surprise, rubbish site has rubbish commentz, and even these - few
1437170;1458579734;asciilifeform;but what i'd like to know is why none of you lot commented.
1437171;1458579748;asciilifeform;other than mircea_popescu who actually bothered to lift one hand
1437172;1458579762;asciilifeform;the thing is about an actual problem, that oughta be dealt with imho.
1437173;1458579763;jurov;oh, i like the proposal, except that i'm always two minds about anything
1437174;1458579772;asciilifeform;let's hear the two+ minds ?
1437175;1458579819;jurov;i mean, i'd prolly need one signature with "pros" and anther one with "cons"
1437176;1458579895;asciilifeform;jurov: i initially thought about doing just 1 bit, 'sig' and 'antisig'
1437177;1458579910;asciilifeform;then expanded to 2, then 4, then whole byte which may be pushing it
1437178;1458579929;asciilifeform;(i found it necessary to distinguish signing 'i wrote this' from 'i modified' from 'i found it as is')
1437179;1458579985;asciilifeform;the dimensions i ended up with are not accidental
1437180;1458579994;asciilifeform;but literally the minimum i could think of.
1437181;1458580092;jurov;yes, that's fine and neat.
1437182;1458580116;asciilifeform;well not really, i'm not satisfied with the result.
1437183;1458580125;asciilifeform;it is clunky.
1437184;1458580130;jurov;but whole idea leans in the direction of peer review, which must be some text, not collection of flags
1437185;1458580142;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> but what i'd like to know is why none of you lot commented. << compute time on my wetware has been over subscribed lately
1437186;1458580148;asciilifeform;smacks of the rfc4880 idiocy
1437187;1458580234;asciilifeform;i even thought about subservient keys of some kind, to express disapproval / 'i-found-it-as-it-no-endorsement', etc.
1437188;1458580238;asciilifeform;but this is even worse.
1437189;1458580476;jurov;i can see the signature rather like S-expression with ID of the signed artifact, approve/disapprove/etc. bits which could be parsed and would have room for free text with any other nuances the signer wanted to add
1437190;1458580504;trinque;that trends towards either enumerate-all-the-feelings or simply a wad of freeform text
1437191;1458580506;trinque;I prefer the latter
1437192;1458580527;trinque;a descriptive comment can explain why I signed just fine
1437193;1458580530;jurov;no, i mean free text + some indexable bits
1437194;1458580537;trinque;right, I am contradicting you :)
1437195;1458580572;trinque;why index and machine-process what should be read and considered by a brain?
1437196;1458580606;jurov;for poor vtron to be able to distinguish signatures and antisignatures
1437197;1458580653;asciilifeform;^
1437198;1458580708;trinque;the argument has yet to be made that I'd rather have your anti-signature override my other wot member's signature, rather than your persuasion elsewhere having caused me to delete his signature
1437199;1458580738;trinque;from my seals dir
1437200;1458580764;trinque;reminds me of key revocation actually, in the bad way
1437201;1458580765;jurov;no, not override anything, such thing is up for you to decide
1437202;1458580796;jurov;vtron would just say to you that the antisig from your wot exists
1437203;1458580819;trinque;how does it not trend towards facebook "reactions" for vpatches ?
1437204;1458580874;jurov;that would be bad thing?
1437205;1458580904;asciilifeform;trinque: consider a scenario where i review, e.g., glibc
1437206;1458580905;jurov;and if your wot peer starts spamming with facebooky comments, just remove him
1437207;1458580910;asciilifeform;and decide that it is a work of evil
1437208;1458580916;asciilifeform;whose key will you remove? drepper's ? which we never ~had to begin with~ !
1437209;1458580925;asciilifeform;right now i am stuck simply ~refusing to sign~ as a means of expressing disapproval
1437210;1458580930;asciilifeform;which is moronic
1437211;1458580979;trinque;I have an easier time seeing the benefit of a single bit of tarnish + description why
1437212;1458581018;trinque;I don't think all the reasons for "why do I hate" can be represented usefully as a machine-grokkable header
1437213;1458581021;asciilifeform;trinque: and what if not tarnish, but the simple-attest-without-approval ?
1437214;1458581029;trinque;sign + description
1437215;1458581030;asciilifeform;as in the given example with mircea_popescu and vintage bitcoin
1437216;1458581056;trinque;"This is what it claims to be, and that is all I say about it." -- mp
1437217;1458581083;asciilifeform;my argument is that there is a handful of EXTREMELY common situations re: signing that DON'T resolve to 'i approve of this'
1437218;1458581090;asciilifeform;and that they are divisible into equivalence classes.
1437219;1458581106;trinque;perhaps; that's my first stab at a reaction
1437220;1458581110;*;trinque will ponder more
1437221;1458581134;asciilifeform;and the point is not to excuse folks from the duty of writing comments
1437222;1458581142;asciilifeform;but to make sure that certain situations are impossible
1437223;1458581154;asciilifeform;i.e. of a vtron being confused by an enemy digging up ancient signed material.
1437224;1458581184;asciilifeform;and likewise to make 'collect the words of great dead sage into coherent whole' a more workable proposition.
1437225;1458581331;trinque;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-11-2015#1321452 << obligatory thread
1437226;1458581331;assbot;Logged on 10-11-2015 22:25:29; mircea_popescu: ie, there, "it's not the job of the state to protect the cultural patrimony OF INDIVIDUALS and their clans ; if those individuals and clans are so degenerate, bankrupt and chlorotioc as to no longer be able to protect their heritage, let the worms havce it. no, not even for comunist metaphisics ; no, the property of x isn't "ours", no x's history isn't "ours". let them uphold it or let it die.
1437227;1458581348;trinque;I see the benefit of "this seal is just a messenger"
1437228;1458581358;asciilifeform;trinque: you are reminding me of the thread where i refused to solve the problem v solves initially
1437229;1458581371;asciilifeform;because 'fuck you, collect patches and check sigs and determine order YOURSELF!111'
1437230;1458581382;asciilifeform;'reactor rodz!1111'
1437231;1458581419;asciilifeform;but like it or not, we have right now a situation where folks are ~not signing patches.
1437232;1458581426;asciilifeform;i can only speak for myself re: why
1437233;1458581434;asciilifeform;but imho i outlined a major reason.
1437234;1458581459;asciilifeform;it was EMINENTLY possible to build trb pre-v.
1437235;1458581469;asciilifeform;yet various clever folks had trouble, e.g., mircea_popescu, hanbot
1437236;1458581494;asciilifeform;likewise it is possible to sign other folks' patches today. yet not so many of us are doing it.
1437237;1458581512;asciilifeform;and the all-or-nothing factor, i think, is part of it.
1437238;1458581521;asciilifeform;i, for instance, can't bring myself to sign anything from polarbeard.
1437239;1458581560;asciilifeform;nor do i have the stomach to sign v-genesis of ancient stuff, i struggled with the decision of whether to sign tinyscheme
1437240;1458581567;asciilifeform;because i DO NOT ENDORSE IT WHOLESALE
1437241;1458581574;asciilifeform;but there was no way to express this vtronically.
1437242;1458581577;asciilifeform;and this BLOWS.
1437243;1458581780;asciilifeform;http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected << see, for example.
1437244;1458581781;assbot;asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected ... ( http://bit.ly/1MjoIXu )
1437245;1458581793;asciilifeform;this patch has 'all signers: mircea_popescu trinque asciilifeform mod6'
1437246;1458581799;asciilifeform;NOBODY ELSE bothered ?!
1437247;1458581803;asciilifeform;not ben_vulpes, even ?
1437248;1458581817;asciilifeform;and this is a patch without which trb is ~dead in the water~
1437249;1458581841;asciilifeform;so what should i conclude, that no one bothered to read ? to sign ? or that folks had reservations? which is it.
1437250;1458581939;asciilifeform;nobody, i should add, really oughta be signing unless he is ~sure~. but sure OF WHAT???
1437251;1458581949;asciilifeform;signing presently conveys ONE BIT of info, and it means... ?????
1437252;1458582184;mod6;<+asciilifeform> this patch has 'all signers: mircea_popescu trinque asciilifeform mod6' << i'll note that this signatures you're referencing are strictly for genesis.vpatch
1437253;1458582208;jurov;i consider whole trb thing as something that demands my full attention, and there's always something more urgent to do...
1437254;1458582215;jurov;maybe i should have been reading and signing patches instead of doing the mempool abortion
1437255;1458582222;mod6;further, all other vpatches are signed by me and me and you.  there are some you haven't signed either.
1437256;1458582268;mod6;jurov: your mempool work was important.  reading the vpatches and the ml and the SoBA is important too -- and iirc doesn't take that long to get through most of them at this point
1437257;1458582287;asciilifeform;mod6: definitely there are some i did not sign, i listed one earlier
1437258;1458582316;asciilifeform;and i'm not trying to be an arse to folks re: signing, but would like to know some of the ~reasons~ things aren't getting signed
1437259;1458582321;asciilifeform;i listed a big one for me.
1437260;1458582335;mod6;yup ok
1437261;1458582387;trinque;sure, for me it's "I cannot yet swear an oath to this" and could instead say "I have been running deedbot atop this successfully for x months"
1437262;1458582537;asciilifeform;i still don't see why we can't have machine-distinguishability of 'i swear this is as i found it 5 years ago' vs 'i read and understood this' vs 'i wrote this and swear with my life that it will not fail'
1437263;1458582575;trinque;I can see the pragmatism of it
1437264;1458582602;asciilifeform;does anyone recall mircea_popescu's original push re: signing code ?
1437265;1458582626;asciilifeform;there was this notion that folks might read old stuff and sign a subset
1437266;1458582645;asciilifeform;well, the implicit 'i swear with my life to this' - leaves me reluctant to sign anything i did not write 100% of
1437267;1458582684;asciilifeform;and a pretty big chunk of my efforts in reading ~questionable crud~, which i do a great deal of, is wasted
1437268;1458582688;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i've been waiting for the "what does a signature convey" conversation to sign anything.
1437269;1458582692;asciilifeform;in the sense that it leaves no serious perma-record.
1437270;1458582701;asciilifeform;see there we have it.
1437271;1458582719;ben_vulpes;right now, i expect to sign something half-baked that then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated
1437272;1458582728;ben_vulpes;there is, so far, no "this sucks, but it introduces no new lies" bit.
1437273;1458582806;asciilifeform;so this makes 2 of us.
1437274;1458582979;thestringpuller;can signatures have numerical notation like GPG trustdb?
1437275;1458583012;asciilifeform;thestringpuller: scalar is mega-inadequate.
1437276;1458583017;asciilifeform;i rejected this idea immediately.
1437277;1458583049;thestringpuller;it needs to be discrete?
1437278;1458583083;asciilifeform;no, there is more than one dimension.
1437279;1458583151;thestringpuller;so what else is there? linear? parabolic?
1437280;1458583188;ben_vulpes;i was even uncomfortable signing the genesis vpatch. what does that even mean -- "this is actually some variant of satoshi's hairball"?
1437281;1458583196;ben_vulpes;"this bitcoinates - i do swear"?
1437282;1458583199;asciilifeform;see there we go
1437283;1458583216;asciilifeform;i signed it, but it had a distinct feel of falling on a necessary grenade
1437284;1458583227;ben_vulpes;"this may contain pernicious hdd-wrecking nasties i'm unaware of, but is the closest thing to a bitcoinator i know of"?
1437285;1458583253;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: didja read my modest proposal thing ?
1437286;1458583257;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: thoughts ?
1437287;1458583286;ben_vulpes;i did.
1437288;1458583321;ben_vulpes;still thinking.
1437289;1458583360;ben_vulpes;it hints at ameliorating my concerns.
1437290;1458583660;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437279 << quaternionic.
1437291;1458583660;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 17:59:11; thestringpuller: so what else is there? linear? parabolic?
1437292;1458588468;thestringpuller;"In mathematical field of representation theory, a quaternionic representation is a representation on a complex vector space V with an invariant quaternionic structure"
1437293;1458588641;jurov;thestringpuller: "complex vector space" sounds like fitting description of human attitude toward the matter being signed
1437294;1458588877;jurov;btw, i have misread first mention of it as "vectored thrust" and imagined "wow S.NSA is finally onto ICBMs. Or space program?"
1437295;1458588980;asciilifeform;l0l
1437296;1458589033;mircea_popescu;jurov> and if your wot peer starts spamming with facebooky comments, just remove him << it's not so simple, really. it's not a sudden and visible thing, just slow slide towards shitworld where you wake up one day and wonder wtf happened. much like irl marriages.
1437297;1458589085;jurov;and sometimes it happens suddenly, like https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SWSqP8WFOdQ/Vu68Q-o05wI/AAAAAAAAJu0/rMYkpDTWpGk/w441-h221-no/rabbit%2Bpop.gif
1437298;1458589087;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UJwZ8z )
1437299;1458589108;asciilifeform;^
1437300;1458589188;nubbins`;went to fight a parking ticket today, the crown had no evidence and the cop who wrote the ticket didn't show up
1437301;1458589189;nubbins`;sigh
1437302;1458589237;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> right now, i expect to sign something half-baked that then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated << this is a very cogent point ; and i feel rather the same way.
1437303;1458589272;mircea_popescu;haha win
1437304;1458589284;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho single-bit scalar pgp is rather like car with sole control being a gas pedal.
1437305;1458589301;mircea_popescu;i imagine that's a rabbit with a whiplash sore penis huh
1437306;1458589378;nubbins`;asciilifeform multi-bit vector pgp sounds about as rat-nesty as a tag-based log tracking system
1437307;1458589404;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i invite you to comment on my post, possibly suggest a cleaner solution to the problem ?
1437308;1458589417;asciilifeform;nubbins`: because there is a very real problem.
1437309;1458589462;mod6;<+asciilifeform> well, the implicit 'i swear with my life to this' - leaves me reluctant to sign anything i did not write 100% of << and who's to say, even if you wrote everything at one layer, that something doesn't fuck you in the butt from a layer below?  we don't have computers. never did.
1437310;1458589483;asciilifeform;mod6: separate issue.
1437311;1458589528;mod6;but "i swear this werks!!", then someone runs your shit and it ~should~ work, but doesn't because of unforseen hardware, or configuration or cosmic rays.
1437312;1458589538;mircea_popescu;mod6 that is the crux of the problem. there is no such thing as separatability in software anyway.
1437313;1458589538;asciilifeform;~this~ being specifically the this that you wrote.
1437314;1458589550;mod6;nothing is certain.
1437315;1458589551;asciilifeform;~this~ aspect is separable.
1437316;1458589561;mod6;we're all just rolling the dice.
1437317;1458589580;asciilifeform;'why wash hands? patients will die anyway'
1437318;1458589581;asciilifeform;nonsense.
1437319;1458589587;mircea_popescu;moreover, the issue of "it's kernel's fault" "no dude is program's fault" requires very complex analysis most people are unable to engage in, and in any case unable to finance even if they could somehow engage in it
1437320;1458589587;mod6;hey hey
1437321;1458589596;mod6;it doesn't mean that it's still not probablistic.
1437322;1458589603;mircea_popescu;basically giving the day to the usual obamas with simple ideas and an insistence to repeat their nonsense.
1437323;1458589604;nubbins`;asciilifeform no, on first chuff it looks sensible; not that much more long-winded than a file permissions block
1437324;1458589606;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: since when do we 'most people'
1437325;1458589607;mod6;99.9995% of time it works.  except for when it doesnt.
1437326;1458589614;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform since you caqn't stop talking to them.
1437327;1458589620;asciilifeform;l0l!
1437328;1458589630;mircea_popescu;now plox to let me be.
1437329;1458589651;mircea_popescu;mod6 in any case, the idea of responsibility in software is a lot more difficult to implement than previously hoped.
1437330;1458589660;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: eh i didn't wake you up, did i
1437331;1458589704;mod6;mircea_popescu: well, indeed. i mean, i can "swear and affirm" that my code won't fail you, but really, I can't be certain one way or another.  too many variables.
1437332;1458589726;mircea_popescu;and, importantly, if it WERE to fail, how would we resolve the problem if it is or it isn't your fault.
1437333;1458589732;asciilifeform;imho the concept of taking responsibility for ~the material you wrote~ is not a difficult one
1437334;1458589777;mircea_popescu;yeah, sure, not a difficult one for as long as one lives on imaginary half mil a year and theorizes away. in practice, it will not be seen, nor has it.
1437335;1458589780;nubbins`;asciilifeform this also opens up the option for interesting filters, e.g. no need to display "heart" field if "brain" is 00, etc
1437336;1458589798;mod6;mircea_popescu: formally, a group would have to be constructed to investigate and analyze failures and place blame where beyond required -- if it can be proved beyond any doubt.
1437337;1458589815;mircea_popescu;and it is cheaper for this group to put forth an ideology than to do any actual investigative work
1437338;1458589821;mod6;for sure
1437339;1458589825;mircea_popescu;much like it is cheaper for universities to universities than to actually teach anyone anything
1437340;1458589833;mod6;hhaha
1437341;1458589835;mod6;yes
1437342;1458589838;asciilifeform;no shit
1437343;1458589843;mircea_popescu;and moreover, even with the best of intentions, the defense of the group is expensive and arduous, and everyone's got better shit to do.
1437344;1458589861;mod6;we're just at this moment in history where everything sucks.,
1437345;1458589878;mod6;we have no computers, we have almost no sound money, everything is faux.
1437346;1458589886;mircea_popescu;like in that film with the guy who keeps waking up in the same place.
1437347;1458589903;asciilifeform;we are, however, overrun with vermin, and this opens up astonishing perspectives in pesticidal work
1437348;1458589909;mod6;until we have computers, and i mean "have computers" in the sense that alf would be happy to say he has a "comptuer", whatever that means.
1437349;1458589921;mod6;we can't have real true responsibiltiy of code ownership.
1437350;1458589921;asciilifeform;mod6: last week i finally built... a computer.
1437351;1458589925;asciilifeform;it runs on a 6502 !
1437352;1458589926;mod6;no way
1437353;1458589930;mod6;no fucking way
1437354;1458589935;asciilifeform;you will prolly not want one.
1437355;1458589939;asciilifeform;promise.
1437356;1458589976;mod6;i may want one!
1437357;1458589981;mod6;is it deterministic?!
1437358;1458589985;mod6;turing complete?
1437359;1458589987;asciilifeform;yes.
1437360;1458590017;asciilifeform;but you already have, chances are, a 6502 micro somewhere in the cellar.
1437361;1458590019;mod6;well, maybe alf is farther along on this journey than anyone had thought.  and maybe "sucks" is only very temporary.
1437362;1458590048;mircea_popescu;maybe.
1437363;1458590051;mod6;but until we all have shit that doesn't suck... we're kinda just waiting until it doens't suck.  in the context of blame and "i don't have to /hope/ this thing works, I know mod6 said it does, ergo, it works."
1437364;1458590064;asciilifeform;mod6: it is a parachute, in case certain things happen.
1437365;1458590066;mod6;is the 6502 those cocaine looking packages you got?
1437366;1458590081;asciilifeform;mod6: that was support chipset, and a buncha z80
1437367;1458590088;mod6;ah. thats right.
1437368;1458590095;asciilifeform;(largely 74xxx logic, and buncha srams, eproms)
1437369;1458590132;mod6;anyway, sorry for the rant.  but it is not lost on me how hosed up "computer land" is these days.
1437370;1458590175;mod6;its like a house in malibu, built on stilts, on the side of a hill that mud slides after .25" of rain.
1437371;1458590188;asciilifeform;mod6: which is why islands of sanity are ~everything~.
1437372;1458590188;mod6;worse probably.
1437373;1458590264;mircea_popescu;the one problematic part is that stilts or no stilts, the product is actually very well adapted to the market it serves.
1437374;1458590297;mircea_popescu;not like the actual malibu dwellers are coerced to live in the vinyl sidings abominations. meeting of the minds.
1437375;1458590298;asciilifeform;real-airplane is largely wasted on aborigines, aha
1437376;1458590747;mod6;haha.
1437377;1458590751;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437332 << troika will decide!111
1437378;1458590751;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 19:48:46; mircea_popescu: and, importantly, if it WERE to fail, how would we resolve the problem if it is or it isn't your fault.
1437379;1458590928;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437334 << the distance from workable theory to cold iron here is quite short, and eminently bridgeable. if we had the usable theory. which is a problem i was taking a stab at.
1437380;1458590928;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 19:49:37; mircea_popescu: yeah, sure, not a difficult one for as long as one lives on imaginary half mil a year and theorizes away. in practice, it will not be seen, nor has it.
1437381;1458590985;asciilifeform;i keep getting the feeling that we only half-solved vtronics
1437382;1458590999;asciilifeform;in the same sense that, e.g., edison, half-solved electric grid distribution
1437383;1458591025;asciilifeform;now i could be wrong, entirely, and this-is-as-solved-as-it-gets
1437384;1458591315;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437337 << the way i see it, the 'punishment' aspect of vtronics is secondary. the main thing is that ACTUAL PEOPLE, i.e. folks willing to ~take responsibility for their actions~, could find and recognize each other.
1437385;1458591315;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 19:50:15; mircea_popescu: and it is cheaper for this group to put forth an ideology than to do any actual investigative work
1437386;1458591318;mod6;maybe having different keys (key certifing "i read this" [eyes] / "I wrote this" [hands] / ... etc.) is an analog for the polyphase system that replaced it.
1437387;1458591331;asciilifeform;mod6: multitudes of keys are iffy
1437388;1458591340;mod6;and you sign your vtron keys with your one regular key? i dunno.
1437389;1458591399;asciilifeform;i actually considered this, in the beginning.
1437390;1458591418;asciilifeform;'subkeys' suck donkey ballz.
1437391;1458591436;mod6;<+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437337 << the way i see it, the 'punishment' aspect of vtronics is secondary. the main thing is that ACTUAL PEOPLE, i.e. folks willing to ~take responsibility for their actions~, could find and recognize each other. << i think so too.  but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
1437392;1458591436;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 19:50:15; mircea_popescu: and it is cheaper for this group to put forth an ideology than to do any actual investigative work
1437393;1458591458;mod6;I think if people can make punishment first, they will. cause no == yes && yes == anal.
1437394;1458591477;mod6;who's to say what is anything
1437395;1458591505;mod6;Welcome nihlistic Monday
1437396;1458591523;asciilifeform;whole point of the instrument is to ~make it possible for there to be such a thing as a Who~
1437397;1458591536;asciilifeform;just as running water strongly enables, but does not guarantee, hygiene
1437398;1458591542;asciilifeform;folks still gotta take the time to wash.
1437399;1458591576;mod6;without quality random numbers, we can't have certifiable cryptographic identities.
1437400;1458591604;mod6;who's to say anyone is anyone when P & Q are fingerfucked by the NSA or other spooks.
1437401;1458591643;asciilifeform;!s the man who was thursday
1437402;1458591644;assbot;8 results for 'the man who was thursday' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=the+man+who+was+thursday
1437403;1458591700;asciilifeform;am i the only one here right now who isn't sitting in a dark room with a bottle of vodka and loaded nagant ?
1437404;1458591795;mod6;im no
1437405;1458591796;mod6;t
1437406;1458591804;mod6;anyway, that looks like an interesting novel.
1437407;1458591864;davout;asciilifeform: with tmsr~ spanning a few timezones, there's bound to always be someone with an open bottle
1437408;1458591879;mod6;But my good man, a serious cornerstone / building block to sanity and in the direction of "workable" computer will come when your work is complete and I can get quality random numbers.
1437409;1458591897;mod6;other than some otp
1437410;1458591917;asciilifeform;mod6: what do you mean 'some otp'
1437411;1458591954;pete_dushenski;!s stuck node
1437412;1458591955;assbot;22 results for 'stuck node' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stuck+node
1437413;1458591959;asciilifeform;mod6: and i probably ought to point out that 'quality random' was baked long ago, ben_vulpes actually took a sample unit home after c3...
1437414;1458591969;mod6;one guy!
1437415;1458591986;mod6;ook anyway, one time pad - i can create with dice no?
1437416;1458591997;mod6;now i gotta dig something up on trilema.  thought there was an article?
1437417;1458591999;pete_dushenski;http://dpaste.com/1PHC5RR.txt << my last 1000 lines of debug.log on my own stuck node, if anyone's interested
1437418;1458592000;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U2gm93 )
1437419;1458592005;asciilifeform;mod6: debiasing dice is a bitch
1437420;1458592009;pete_dushenski;it's jammed twice in the last week now.
1437421;1458592068;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: how long has it been ?
1437422;1458592080;mod6;asciilifeform: hm. im misremembering something.   eitherway, outside of well, anywhere really, i can't think of a single place in the known universe where the nsa can't diddle your shit.
1437423;1458592094;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: the most recent jam was at 403`396
1437424;1458592114;asciilifeform;mod6: i am comfortable in the supposition that nsa cannot yet travel backwards in time.
1437425;1458592156;asciilifeform;nor perform 'esp'
1437426;1458592169;mod6;we've got a lot of stuff to fabricate and create.
1437427;1458592191;asciilifeform;mod6: until then - to excavate.
1437428;1458592208;mod6;ya. this hardware scares the bahjeesus out of me.
1437429;1458592220;asciilifeform;megatonnes of perfectly-good 1980s lsi lying around.
1437430;1458592241;mod6;i want like some 1971 vac shit.
1437431;1458592443;mod6;i think i need to start doing all of my computing with paper and pencil, in a room with no doors, no windows or lights.
1437432;1458592454;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: the weirder thing is that the stuck node is on the physical box i have, not either of the two vpses i have. and all are running 99997k or 99996k.
1437433;1458592458;asciilifeform;mod6: l0l
1437434;1458592470;asciilifeform;mod6: and if you were thinking of vax, 1st one was sold in, iirc, '77
1437435;1458592485;mod6;ah,. yeah vax. i was kidding anyway.
1437436;1458592506;mod6;i should look at some 80's hardware and see if I can spin up a rig.
1437437;1458592530;asciilifeform;mod6: i started with this.
1437438;1458592538;asciilifeform;mod6: prolly ought to share my observations here.
1437439;1458592560;asciilifeform;~actual, whole~ '80s micro is a good toy and learning instrument, but poor foundation for a battlefield system.
1437440;1458592576;mod6;ah. hrm.
1437441;1458592579;asciilifeform;largely because - while they were indeed built on top of some excellent 8-bit cpu, most of which can still be had -
1437442;1458592724;asciilifeform;they also contained various custom i/o, that is gnarly, of heavy incidental complexity, and - importantly - cannot be had in new production
1437443;1458592738;asciilifeform;and is not even in all cases 100% documented, so will be difficult to re-create.
1437444;1458592764;asciilifeform;in other instances, there are anachronisms that create wholly unnecessary problems, e.g., tape and extinct disk systems
1437445;1458592770;asciilifeform;whereas thing really oughta take modern 'flash'
1437446;1458592787;mod6;Hmm.
1437447;1458592826;mod6;pete_dushenski: i didn't see anything crazy in there. runnign with -connect or -addnode?
1437448;1458592854;mod6;so i/o drivers need to be written by hand alf?
1437449;1458592874;asciilifeform;mod6: 'drivers' is not really a meaningful concept on a 64k box
1437450;1458592895;mod6;heheh
1437451;1458592919;asciilifeform;this, i must add, is not an official s.nsa project of any kind. but it is there on my desk with a dozen other items of 'parachute' variety
1437452;1458592959;asciilifeform;i once decided to determine the simplest box that could be assembled from readily-available (preferebly, sov-block) components, that could GENERATE and OPERATE a reasonable onetimepad.
1437453;1458592974;asciilifeform;and carry out certain other operations
1437454;1458592976;mod6;is it crazy to think that said chip you're talking about be re-constructed on a fpga, perhaps many of them on one fpga?
1437455;1458592982;asciilifeform;(e.g., lamport signature; burn & verify eproms; etc)
1437456;1458592987;pete_dushenski;mod6: -connect
1437457;1458593000;asciilifeform;mod6: you could fit 500 of them on a cheap fpga. but you will be using an AMERICAN FPGA
1437458;1458593005;pete_dushenski;mod6: to two of the b-a nodes and one of my own
1437459;1458593007;asciilifeform;y'know, the ones with 0 docs
1437460;1458593023;mod6;once fully sync'd pete_dushenski, make a back up your your block chain, and then use -addnode
1437461;1458593060;pete_dushenski;mod6: will do :]
1437462;1458593062;mod6;-connect is great for getting blocks from a trusted node, but you're only connected to just that node.  so if there is some sort of blocking issue... you might get starved.
1437463;1458593099;mod6;asciilifeform: do any worthwhile FPGAs' with open docs exist at any price?
1437464;1458593115;asciilifeform;mod6: nope.
1437465;1458593125;mod6;you've been over this a hundred times im sure.
1437466;1458593126;mod6;sorry.
1437467;1458593141;mod6;goddamnit. we need some sane hardware and quality random numbers.
1437468;1458593151;phf;asciilifeform: but what i'd like to know is why none of you lot commented. << i'm not groking how that's supposed to work with gpg signatures
1437469;1458593153;mod6;we'll get there.
1437470;1458593244;mod6;phf: well, other than saying "interesting" and "cool", i couldn't figure out how to do that either.  unless we create a vtron signature style in 'g' or is it 'p'?  i cant recall..  cause how will someones vtron be able to pull the bit string out to know how to categorize someones seal?
1437471;1458593265;mod6;this is all implementation and theory.
1437472;1458593274;asciilifeform;if i'm gonna depend on an antique, i'd rather take one  that was made in qty 500,000,000 in 11 countries. than 10,000 in usa-only.
1437473;1458593281;mod6;I like the idea though.  We just don't have the tools yet.
1437474;1458593284;asciilifeform;phf: it isn't
1437475;1458593326;asciilifeform;though i considered, brifly, hijacking the high bits of the timestamp 32b field for it
1437476;1458593333;asciilifeform;(but decided that this was retarded)
1437477;1458593337;asciilifeform;*briefly
1437478;1458593350;mod6;asciilifeform: if the various bits for hands/eyes/heart/brain are not to be in anyway invovled with a signature, any thoughts on how we pass these around with the signature?
1437479;1458593361;asciilifeform;mod6: this was deliberately not specified
1437480;1458593363;mod6;oh, i see.
1437481;1458593367;asciilifeform;there is no clean way to do it with classical gpg
1437482;1458593370;mod6;gotcha
1437483;1458593371;mod6;right
1437484;1458593385;mod6;but since you're writing one... you could wrap that in there perhaps?
1437485;1458593399;asciilifeform;aha.
1437486;1458593419;mod6;werd.
1437487;1458593729;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437473 << a CORRECT approach and literally 1 line of sed is worth 10,000 hours of misguided toolmaking.
1437488;1458593729;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 20:48:01; mod6: I like the idea though.  We just don't have the tools yet.
1437489;1458593739;asciilifeform;think, e.g., 'vdiff'.
1437490;1458593747;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437476 <<< why's that retarded? kindof the first thing i thought about when reading your piece
1437491;1458593747;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 20:48:53; asciilifeform: (but decided that this was retarded)
1437492;1458593757;asciilifeform;davout: because it breaks things.
1437493;1458593768;asciilifeform;and, importantly, ~fails~ to break things that oughta break
1437494;1458593772;trinque;asciilifeform: can you make yours give proper exit codes pls? :)
1437495;1458593787;asciilifeform;trinque: waiwut
1437496;1458593789;trinque;I was horrified to discover yesterday that gpg does not exit nonzero when a sig doesn't verify
1437497;1458593802;asciilifeform;trinque: l0l! srsly? which gpg?!
1437498;1458593808;trinque;it craps an error message, yes, but otherwise exit 0
1437499;1458593818;trinque;1.4.19 over here
1437500;1458593835;davout;asciilifeform: specifically?
1437501;1458593836;asciilifeform;and anyway why are you relying on the exit code ?
1437502;1458593851;trinque;I'm not; just saw it while rewriting deedbot
1437503;1458593878;asciilifeform;davout: if using format of classic gpg, there is no way to uniquely specify 'this is vtronically signed'
1437504;1458593890;asciilifeform;so you will never know if sig is made by old or new.
1437505;1458593913;phf;trinque: because gpg --verify is not intended to be used in batch process, if you're doing verification specifically should be using gpgv, which also expects env (keys in dbs specifically) to be in a certain state
1437506;1458593917;asciilifeform;afaik using any reserved bits (algo field) will nuke ordinary gpg.
1437507;1458593928;trinque;http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2004-August/023141.html << rationale
1437508;1458593929;assbot;gpg --verify exit status ... ( http://bit.ly/1UzkL3g )
1437509;1458593938;davout;asciilifeform: hardfork is indeed cleaner aha
1437510;1458594018;davout;trinque: my 1.4.19 outputs 0 for correct sig, 1 for incorrect sig, 2 for unsigned data
1437511;1458594201;trinque;davout: hm seems I might've been wrong
1437512;1458594207;*;trinque fiddles moar
1437513;1458594275;asciilifeform;trinque: motherfucking KEYRINGS arrggh
1437514;1458594331;trinque;hm yeah, dunno how I was getting exit 0; might've been a case of having used inferior-shell wrong earlier
1437515;1458594540;asciilifeform;phf: one of the big reasons gpg is a turd is the 'keys in dbs' idiocy
1437516;1458594546;asciilifeform;FUCK hidden state
1437517;1458594557;asciilifeform;state is what the motherfucking file system is for
1437518;1458594562;asciilifeform;when it cannot be avoided
1437519;1458594587;asciilifeform;and if it doesn't come in explicitly and deliberately through the command line or stdio, it doesn't belong in the input.
1437520;1458594629;asciilifeform;FUCK every pissant proggy getting to have its own miniature version of the microshit winblowz 'registry'.
1437521;1458594637;asciilifeform;if i wanted registry, i would fucking run winblowz.
1437522;1458594655;*;asciilifeform froths, like a rabid dog
1437523;1458594790;mod6;'keyring' is alf's pavlovian trigger
1437524;1458594812;asciilifeform;actually the bell and the food dish are my pavlovian trigger.
1437525;1458594866;mod6;haha, what you hear the bell and you mentally think 'food' and you see food dish and think 'bell' ?
1437526;1458594873;asciilifeform;aha!
1437527;1458594915;trinque;as long as the filesystem in question lets me find things rapidly by searching over metadata, I will happily give up my black boxes of such
1437528;1458594917;asciilifeform;neighbour trained the cats to come out of hiding when she bangs on the dish
1437529;1458594918;phf;main reason gpg is turd, because was written for dos and frozen into spec that way. provided functionally is composite and doesn't "do one thing well". instead of freeform key annotation has explicit "name, email, comment" fields, instead of easy way to spawn many keys, has a convoluted key hierarchy, etc.
1437530;1458594940;*;trinque mumbles about befs with bottle of booze in hand
1437531;1458594945;asciilifeform;phf: you can always tell the smell of microshit
1437532;1458594965;asciilifeform;and yes, ultimately it is why it has own idiotronic db
1437533;1458594976;asciilifeform;because it 'had to' exist on idiot os with 8char filenames
1437534;1458595031;asciilifeform;there are reasons why my first act re trb was to exterminate all compatibility with microshit
1437535;1458595044;asciilifeform;because it merely being A THING is pernicious.
1437536;1458595079;mod6;GnuPG-~1
1437537;1458595085;mod6;stab
1437538;1458595100;asciilifeform;you can't 'live and let live' with microshit.
1437539;1458595106;asciilifeform;it will entumour you.
1437540;1458595115;phf;i have love/hate relationship with dos
1437541;1458595122;asciilifeform;phf: i think we all do
1437542;1458595124;mod6;where does the love come in?
1437543;1458595146;asciilifeform;mod6: mircea_popescu had a good article, iirc, on this. it was the last gasp of the 'my computer is mine and i know how it works' era.
1437544;1458595173;asciilifeform;this, and also most of the games ever made that imho were worth playing, were on it.
1437545;1458595177;asciilifeform;i will have a dos box until i die.
1437546;1458595180;mod6;ah.
1437547;1458595197;asciilifeform;and i don't think i will live long enough to fully exhaust the excellent gamez.
1437548;1458595220;asciilifeform;dos pc was also the absolute pinnacle of the make-own-hardware era
1437549;1458595242;asciilifeform;whereas go and try make a pci-e card.
1437550;1458595243;phf;mod6: low cognitive load, for a significant payoff. great games, enough useful software to solve all day to day problems, a handful of dev environments (including emacs, gcc, clisp besides native Turbo * stuff) to solve any possible problems that might come up
1437551;1458595261;asciilifeform;eh dos emacs sucked arse
1437552;1458595296;asciilifeform;serious devs used turboc, or, in the very end days, watcom.
1437553;1458595302;asciilifeform;(watcom rocked absolutely)
1437554;1458595323;phf;i don't mean Emacs, but dos emacs is enough for the "i have text, i need to shape text into new text" tasks
1437555;1458595331;asciilifeform;sure.
1437556;1458595345;asciilifeform;i used norton commander's editor for 99% of things.
1437557;1458595374;phf;so did i, but i mean this for the hypothetical, "move back to dos and fuck y'all" retreat :]
1437558;1458595496;phf;like if forced i could spend rest of life with a dos machine, can't say the same for os x 10.10, but that of course assumes that i somehow don't ever have to work, and in fact live in a "concent" for the rest of life
1437559;1458595519;asciilifeform;phf: this is pretty much my entire ambition in life
1437560;1458595526;asciilifeform;i.e. to get to where i can just have the dos box.
1437561;1458595562;mod6;let's rewrite everything in asm and scheme
1437562;1458595565;*;mod6 runs
1437563;1458595568;asciilifeform;(in proper 'concent', 'syndevs' not permitted!111 gotta write in ink, on paper from paper treez!)
1437564;1458595866;mats;is this a slav thing, 'concent', 'syndevs'?
1437565;1458595869;phf;i assume we're pre-second sack (or first for that matter)
1437566;1458595875;mod6;speaking of which... if we were still going to use scheme, long-term, i'd probably re-write my vtron in scheme -- if for no other reason, to learn it.
1437567;1458595904;mod6;but I think I might take a stab at writting it in ada so I can learn that with a proper example instead.
1437568;1458595924;mod6;i dunno, maybe.  need something useful to fuck around with to learn that stuff.
1437569;1458595945;mod6;then maybe will be able to pitch in for adacoin
1437570;1458595975;phf;mats: we're doing silly http://www.amazon.com/dp/006147410X references
1437571;1458595977;assbot;Anathem: Neal Stephenson: 9780061474101: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1pvYoyN )
1437572;1458596011;mats;ok
1437573;1458596217;asciilifeform;mega-b000k
1437574;1458596576;trinque;mod6: incidentally, list-o-megab00ks would be a great use case for that !tag thing
1437575;1458601348;ben_vulpes;what, people don't maintain their own list of books as suggested by the individuals in chan?
1437576;1458601358;ben_vulpes;what is this automating of the mental reactor rods!?
1437577;1458601376;ben_vulpes;stay limber in your head and effective at your keyboard, and do everything manually why not
1437578;1458601541;trinque;uh, no.
1437579;1458601549;trinque;I want lists of things. I am not a damned secretary
1437580;1458601583;*;ben_vulpes hands trinque a pineapple and broomstick
1437581;1458601634;phf;i usually fail to come back to lists, but i think i've read most things recommended on b-a, the frequency is actually low enough that you can put things in a pile and catch up pretty fast
1437582;1458601648;*;trinque puts pineapple on the end of broomstick, makes weapon
1437583;1458601682;ben_vulpes;nono
1437584;1458601685;ben_vulpes;for sitting
1437585;1458601823;mod6;trinque: yeah for sure.
1437586;1458601839;mircea_popescu;mod6 << i think so too.  but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. << there is no possible division between "punishment" no matter how defined and trust in any reasonable sense. either what you say matters, in which case the world rapidly evolves towards "too hard for peoeple, who just want to..." or what you say doesn't matter, in which case the world rapidly evolves towards welfare state. it is what in math
1437587;1458601839;mircea_popescu;ematics is known as a pole. attempts to create a netherworld between the sharply divergent f(x) and f(x+e) is what i've recently discovered - through the usual stepping on research process - to be a landmine.
1437588;1458601893;mircea_popescu;in a different restatement, people "willing to take responsibility for their actions" only has an imaginary part, and no real part ; for the necessary reason that responsibility can not be defined coherently in the real space.
1437589;1458602275;shinohai;http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/21/technology/doj-apple-hearing/index.html  dun, dun DUN
1437590;1458602276;assbot;DOJ may have found a way to hack into terrorist's iPhone - Mar. 21, 2016 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgnCIO )
1437591;1458602378;mircea_popescu;terrorists have iphones ? the weird world.
1437592;1458603079;ben_vulpes;in more finely-tuned news: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/J85_ge_17a_turbojet_engine.jpg
1437593;1458603082;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rgpq4D )
1437594;1458603265;assbot;[MPEX] [S.NSA] 195000 @ 0.00005012 = 9.7734 BTC [-] {2} 
1437595;1458603326;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MG] 379000 @ 0.00009 = 34.11 BTC [-] {2} 
1437596;1458603571;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437588 << waaaaiwut..?? did we uninvent wot now ?
1437597;1458603571;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 23:11:33; mircea_popescu: in a different restatement, people "willing to take responsibility for their actions" only has an imaginary part, and no real part ; for the necessary reason that responsibility can not be defined coherently in the real space.
1437598;1458603575;asciilifeform;what am i missing.
1437599;1458603991;mircea_popescu;the wot is not related to this discussion.
1437600;1458604015;mircea_popescu;FUCK every pissant proggy getting to have its own miniature version of the microshit winblowz 'registry'. << so true this.
1437601;1458604036;mircea_popescu;it's stress syndrome already, lifeforms fully aware they live in shit. "i'ma make myself a house!"
1437602;1458604036;asciilifeform;i thought whole point of wot was to a) bare your chest to the knife and b) to even have a chest
1437603;1458604162;mircea_popescu;wot is not supporting of a single notion of identity. what x signature is varies irreconcillably among the users, by design and deliberately.
1437604;1458604223;mircea_popescu;for the record, and to revisit that old definition of "public" ie the forum vs "private" ie the gynacaeum, something is public when it has what has been here referred to as a "real" part. ie, when it is possible to make a definition for it that is meaningful for everyone.
1437605;1458604245;mircea_popescu;the wot is eminently private and so deeply irreducible to public that it doesn't even matter it is publicly visible
1437606;1458604253;mircea_popescu;a model mirrored in the itnended design of gossipd.
1437607;1458604253;asciilifeform;well signature comes with a mechanical algo for verification; everything beyond that is 'promise', rather than protocol
1437608;1458604268;mircea_popescu;sure.
1437609;1458604275;asciilifeform;but the thing about 'may as well not be visible' is dead on
1437610;1458604294;asciilifeform;who the fuck knows what so-and-so's ratings ~really~ meant, but him and his inner circle (if that)
1437611;1458604342;asciilifeform;which is why the gossip model of wot is the correct one, where there is no attempt at global/'canonical' state, but only a series of questions, which folks may choose to answer - or not - depending on who asks.
1437612;1458604445;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437595 << somebody's packin' for a trip to mars or what.
1437613;1458604445;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 23:35:26; assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 379000 @ 0.00009 = 34.11 BTC [-] {2} 
1437614;1458604536;jurov;!t m s.nsa
1437615;1458604536;assbot;[MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.00005 / 0.00007428 / 0.000085 (634821 shares, 47.16 BTC), 7D: 0.00005 / 0.00007517 / 0.000085 (692100 shares, 52.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00005 / 0.00007521 / 0.000086 (695100 shares, 52.28 BTC)
1437616;1458604547;jurov;^ martians, too?
1437617;1458604564;asciilifeform;jurov: i meant, that somebody is selling megatonnes of various.
1437618;1458604568;asciilifeform;incl. it
1437619;1458604607;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5150 @ 0.00041827 = 2.1541 BTC [+] {2} 
1437620;1458604611;jurov;yes, and withdrawing.. and i have to ping mircea_popescu again
1437621;1458604632;asciilifeform;l0l i thought jurov had already sold
1437622;1458604652;mircea_popescu;aite.
1437623;1458604737;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437604 << this is ~exactly~ what i was aiming at with 'v algebra' thing, to see if it is possible to expand the 'real part' of signature.
1437624;1458604737;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 23:50:23; mircea_popescu: for the record, and to revisit that old definition of "public" ie the forum vs "private" ie the gynacaeum, something is public when it has what has been here referred to as a "real" part. ie, when it is possible to make a definition for it that is meaningful for everyone.
1437625;1458604768;asciilifeform;i do not yet know if it is possible.
1437626;1458604807;mircea_popescu;gynaeceum in any case.
1437627;1458604871;asciilifeform;so mircea_popescu is presently in the 'nothing to be gained from machine-readable encodings of signature meanings' school of thought ?
1437628;1458604927;mircea_popescu;i am currently of the " ' technology won't be solving human problems ' has been deeply abused and is taking its pound of flesh" school of thought.
1437629;1458604950;asciilifeform;this i can see.
1437630;1458604967;asciilifeform;even with my amoeba eye.
1437631;1458605682;phf;<mircea_popescu> [20:02:06] i am currently of the " ' technology won't be solving human problems ' has been deeply abused and is taking its pound of flesh" school of thought. << i failed to parse, you saying "technology won't solve" has been overused, and there's need to lean in opposite direction?
1437632;1458605706;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437589 << l0l, mcafee finally desoldered the nand for them? or one of the other 10,001 folks who offered.
1437633;1458605706;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 23:17:55; shinohai: http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/21/technology/doj-apple-hearing/index.html  dun, dun DUN
1437634;1458605783;mircea_popescu;phf there's no need to lean or anything ; but the fact remains that if you're unhappy with the way in which fights between toddlers and adults are coming out, giving the toddlers fancier rifles is not likely to do much.
1437635;1458605790;asciilifeform;(the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?)
1437636;1458605805;mircea_popescu;pretty much the ~only way such an attempt ends up is into a f-35, sooner or later.
1437637;1458605962;hanbot;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437059 << that sounds like the most sane solution on tap for efficiency & accuracy both. and honestly...crawling back through the last coupla weeks' logs to study this i couldn't really be paid. much as i'd like to lend some time to folks actually doing good work, this place is reeking rotten already.
1437638;1458605962;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 07:43:11; mircea_popescu: hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ?
1437639;1458606019;asciilifeform;imho this is a spiffy idea. 'tagbot' ?
1437640;1458606020;mircea_popescu;the all-permeating smell of the young male, eh ? supposedly the world is built on these, you know.
1437641;1458606043;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on their corpses, not them as such
1437642;1458606058;mircea_popescu;btw, let me introduce hanbot to you asciilifeform
1437643;1458606065;mircea_popescu;i was of the notion you two had previously met.
1437644;1458606067;hanbot;mircea_popescu i'm really interested in 'em, dead or alive.
1437645;1458606073;asciilifeform;waiwut
1437646;1458606077;hanbot;*not
1437647;1458606092;asciilifeform;we met at c2 & 3
1437648;1458606111;asciilifeform;and hanbot was my 1st contact here
1437649;1458606168;mircea_popescu;see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-03-2016#1426606
1437650;1458606168;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 17:07:08; asciilifeform: anyway i do not know hanbot very well, cannot speak for hanbot.
1437651;1458606218;asciilifeform;i know hanbot, as she knows i, largely by works.
1437652;1458606233;asciilifeform;largely as i know mircea_popescu.
1437653;1458606234;mircea_popescu;well it's good i said something then. anyway.
1437654;1458606244;phf;prometheus was appropriately punished for his infraction, but little good that did
1437655;1458606261;mircea_popescu;as this stuff usually works, eh.
1437656;1458606297;*;asciilifeform finally grasps that mircea_popescu is going through the miserable l0gz
1437657;1458606311;hanbot;mircea_popescu you know that line gave me pause at the time, but i figured he was entertaining the noisebox so what do i know what he's answering to. all in all though, pretty odd.
1437658;1458606351;mircea_popescu;no, i'm not. i noticed it then, and was deeply surprised she was even considering doing anything ; not surprised in the end result.
1437659;1458606389;asciilifeform;hanbot: to clarify, i meant that i cannot presume to speak for other people, esp. ones who i have not interacted with at great length
1437660;1458606407;asciilifeform;i.e. i might have a crude emulated mircea_popescu living in my head, but not a very well developed hanbot
1437661;1458606446;asciilifeform;btw my emulated micropopescu is stabbing me with a sharpened toothbrush. is this a correct spec behaviour ?
1437662;1458606459;hanbot;eh, don't worry about it asciilifeform
1437663;1458606698;phf;there was a blog in the early days of medium, that was basically snippets from irc conversations. my impression was that the display software was gradually hacked into turning out increasingly cleaner posts through various in-channel annotations, like ;tag, ;post, etc. there was significant amount of editorializing though. so someone was responsible, at the end of the thread, to turn it into a post. we kind of have that adhoc, and md
1437664;1458606698;phf;does it the most, but we could help or outright automate the process through annotations
1437665;1458606712;phf;*mp
1437666;1458606750;phf;i periodically try and remember its name to plunder for ideas, but failing so far..
1437667;1458606775;trinque;I'm nearly done with my deedbot- rewrite; I could add this as well. deed the list of tags per $interval or something
1437668;1458606857;trinque;phf: took your example and wrote a CLOS thing for pluggable services.
1437669;1458606930;phf;nice :)
1437670;1458606933;trinque;new deedbot currently lurks in #deedbutt-test
1437671;1458606965;trinque;guy even knows how to ghost his nick
1437672;1458607014;asciilifeform;trinque: mighty spiffy
1437673;1458607155;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and yes i am an arse! with no social graces! but my aspiration is that when i finally go to the woodchipper, folks will remember the pile of dead nazis, and not how i was arse.
1437674;1458607226;trinque;asciilifeform: perhaps usg's threat is they will shame Apple in public unless they privately bend over more obediently
1437675;1458607241;phf;"i don't speak for hanbot for hanbot has a tongue."
1437676;1458607248;asciilifeform;phf ^ has it.
1437677;1458607276;asciilifeform;trinque: how does a finger muppet 'privately' do anything to another finger muppet on the same glove ?
1437678;1458607330;asciilifeform;phf: you may have been thinking of bash.org ?
1437679;1458607344;trinque;perhaps usg asked something drastic enough apple is concerned
1437680;1458607404;asciilifeform;trinque: nowhere in what crapple sells is there to be found anything posing so much as a temporary annoyance to hitler.
1437681;1458607421;asciilifeform;(ditto google et al)
1437682;1458607443;trinque;absent that I have to assume sheer incoherence on the part of hitler
1437683;1458607462;asciilifeform;trinque: no incoherence, i can remove the motherfucking nand ~here~ in this godforsaken hovel
1437684;1458607471;asciilifeform;and so can 10,000,001 other folks
1437685;1458607474;trinque;incoherent that they ever made a public fight of it
1437686;1458607477;trinque;given that.
1437687;1458607500;asciilifeform;trinque: idea was to play stupid & set judicial precedent in favour of arbitrary do-what-we-say orders
1437688;1458607505;phf;asciilifeform: nah, was actual blog, i started reading it when it had coherent topical posts, but studying their history, it started as snippets and gradually acquired features. like early posts were straight up logs, later names were stripped and only text from "posters" retained, etc.
1437689;1458607522;asciilifeform;trinque: and also to make some noise, and give the 'aspiring terrorists should buy crapple devices!' honeytrap a boost
1437690;1458607545;trinque;that I can see
1437691;1458607609;asciilifeform;phf: now this i have never seen, but would like to, if you turn it up again
1437692;1458607865;phf;asciilifeform: so i actually made an effort to go through my notes and found it immediately, http://2lmc.org/spool/. they nuked their entire log and just one static page remains, hmm
1437693;1458607866;assbot;2lmc spool - recent spoolage ... ( http://bit.ly/1pYCIvP )
1437694;1458607890;phf;but you can get general idea
1437695;1458607923;asciilifeform;aha!
1437696;1458607924;asciilifeform;very neat
1437697;1458607940;asciilifeform;i esp. like the footer.
1437698;1458608649;phf;old school snark
1437699;1458611079;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2013/me-aged-5 << got this in trilemarandom and it is mega-lulzy. now i want to find the cartoon! and watch.
1437700;1458611080;assbot;Me, aged 5 on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MyxviX )
1437701;1458612274;mircea_popescu;trinque> guy even knows how to ghost his nick << nice stuff.
1437702;1458612357;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i once met a young girl who thought she is no good with math. she was creative you see, and on her grave was to be inscribed a vintage purse rather than a badly unresolved equation.
1437703;1458612368;mircea_popescu;she can integrate now, and it didn't even take that many whippings.
1437704;1458612393;asciilifeform;neato, where do i sign up!
1437705;1458612465;asciilifeform;i'd like the badly unresolved eq on mine tho
1437706;1458612472;asciilifeform;por favor.
1437707;1458612568;asciilifeform;;;later tell mod6 http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs << you will find these useful, i did
1437708;1458612569;assbot;Ada Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1NTHkaB )
1437709;1458612569;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1437710;1458612880;asciilifeform;!s vintage purse
1437711;1458612881;assbot;2 results for 'vintage purse' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=vintage+purse
1437712;1458612913;asciilifeform;it was definitely shorthand for something
1437713;1458613054;phf;asciilifeform: etsy as failed woman minimax, sort of the opposite of theorems
1437714;1458613078;asciilifeform;aha i found the thread
1437715;1458613144;asciilifeform;interestingly, if it were not for mircea_popescu , i would have never learned this
1437716;1458613161;asciilifeform;that planet is entirely invisible from my optics
1437717;1458613323;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> phf: you may have been thinking of bash.org ? << i don't think he is and i have a vague recollection of this from the very early 2000s that i also can't place
1437718;1458613334;mircea_popescu;but if you asked me i'd have thought mine was romanian
1437719;1458613437;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> trinque: idea was to play stupid & set judicial precedent in favour of arbitrary do-what-we-say orders << i think trinque is much closer to the facts of the field. beast doth not know what it wants not merely for the provable impossibility of such a want, but mostly for absence of a want organ.
1437720;1458613479;asciilifeform;the latest twist suggests this.
1437721;1458613535;asciilifeform;i can see no possible ~logic~ for announcing 'someone opened it' and torpedoing own case
1437722;1458613613;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> now i want to find the cartoon! and watch. << http://documents.tips/documents/carte-balaica-si-bobocel.html
1437723;1458613614;assbot;Carte Balaica Si Bobocel - Documents ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgVjQG )
1437724;1458613650;mircea_popescu;it wasn't a cartoon. it was a "book of practical activities for making puppets and designing scenes". superadvanced art stuff for ro genius kids
1437725;1458613722;*;asciilifeform reads
1437726;1458613822;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's story re wanting the jewels reminds me of mine
1437727;1458613855;asciilifeform;i begged my elder brother to give me, somehow, some ~numbers~
1437728;1458613863;asciilifeform;as in, physical
1437729;1458613889;asciilifeform;somehow the notion entered my head that this was possible
1437730;1458613904;mircea_popescu;poor woman
1437731;1458613911;mircea_popescu;o wait, your brother ?
1437732;1458613922;asciilifeform;he found some toy puzzle thing that nominally satisfied, but i knew it was a sham.
1437733;1458614006;asciilifeform;and i wouldn't listen to any explanation of how it couldn't be done.
1437734;1458614049;mircea_popescu;pretty tall order.
1437735;1458614136;phf;give me here on a platter the head of john the baptist
1437736;1458614203;mircea_popescu;that at least could be satisfied. even in 80s cold dark romania, proper jools could in principle be had.
1437737;1458614204;mircea_popescu;but numbers ?
1437738;1458614266;asciilifeform;aha.
1437739;1458614271;mircea_popescu;much long ago, when chet was a young woman, with children like many here she tried to prepare herself, like many here try. so she had an answer all ready for the eventual inevitable moment her oldest was going to inquire why the sky is blue.
1437740;1458614280;mircea_popescu;the child wanted to know "why sky".
1437741;1458614304;asciilifeform;aha! WHY?!
1437742;1458614345;mircea_popescu;go, tell three year old that the sky isn't a thing, pristina rosa, all that.
1437743;1458614421;mircea_popescu;in other crazy news, i just popped (ie, got a major loot) in eulora. 1+ bitcent's worth of brave man's nosehairs.
1437744;1458614429;mircea_popescu;like 60k of the things.
1437745;1458615848;mod6;thanks for the pointer asciilifeform
1437746;1458615874;asciilifeform;mod6: i also liked http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/docs/distilled/adadistilled.pdf
1437747;1458615875;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1S2drY1 )
1437748;1458615883;asciilifeform;(113 pgs)
1437749;1458615903;mod6;oh yeah, this first link is a trove of examples. nice.
1437750;1458616022;mod6;If the software must absolutely work wit
1437751;1458616022;mod6;hout error, where a software accident could
1437752;1458616024;mod6;kill or maim, Ada is the correct choice.
1437753;1458616031;mod6;sounds like the right idea
1437754;1458616079;asciilifeform;sorta why i unearthed it.
1437755;1458616098;phf;(load-canonical-entries)
1437756;1458616111;phf;oops, my first ben_vulpes
1437757;1458616117;asciilifeform;l0l!
1437758;1458616232;mod6;haha
1437759;1458616256;mod6;there have been, three people iirc that have pasted their passwords in here
1437760;1458616277;asciilifeform;mod6: i got into ada ~1y ago. and it was ~very~ reluctantly.
1437761;1458616321;asciilifeform;it is a very painful thing, to work in. to the point that as early as the first months folks made jokes that it was a ploy to bog down soviet research establishment, plan being that they would copy it and grind to a halt !
1437762;1458616337;mod6;yeah, i'd seen the name before, but never heard anything about it until you were talkin about it.  now it interests me because bitcoin needs to work better than a goddamn 777
1437763;1458616342;asciilifeform;(su, afaik, never took it up, but pascal was strong there)
1437764;1458616369;mod6;hahaha
1437765;1458616406;mod6;well, we'll see when i start getting into it.  ive liked playing with scheme.
1437766;1458616418;asciilifeform;i can almost guarantee you won't like ada then.
1437767;1458616425;mod6;i've bee working my way though all the examples in sicp
1437768;1458616483;mod6;eh, im sure if i get the hang of its conventions, etc., i'll get somehow masochistically into it.
1437769;1458616505;asciilifeform;the canonical text is by one barnes
1437770;1458616511;asciilifeform;i have the 2012 ed.
1437771;1458616525;mod6;oh i got that one ref manual from 95
1437772;1458616543;asciilifeform;(the ~actual~ canon is the standard and rationale books, but they are painful to learn from when n00b)
1437773;1458616562;mod6;yeah, flipping through the book -- it's pretty dense.
1437774;1458616628;mod6;Ada 95 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard  << this one
1437775;1458616841;mod6;is tail recursion always defined such that there are O(n) steps in O(1) space?
1437776;1458616860;asciilifeform;mod6: only if you have tail-call optimization
1437777;1458616863;asciilifeform;as in, e.g., scheme
1437778;1458616868;mircea_popescu;if its optiminm
1437779;1458616869;asciilifeform;but not, for the most part, anywhere else
1437780;1458616916;mod6;right, they said something about C/C++/et.al that have a loop construct such as 'do/while' 'for' 'foreach' etc, as a defect in the lang. lol
1437781;1458616984;mircea_popescu;did everyone see the funarg funerales argentinos thing ?
1437782;1458616991;asciilifeform;aha!
1437783;1458616992;mircea_popescu;it's still making me chuckle.
1437784;1458617014;asciilifeform;they solved the funarg problem!11
1437785;1458617067;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, bitcoin needs not merely a "protocol standard".
1437786;1458617075;mircea_popescu;it needs the fucking standard AND RATIONALE book.
1437787;1458617083;asciilifeform;quite.
1437788;1458617108;mircea_popescu;and we won't even fucking know the standard is anything but elaborate cumcake until the rationale part stands up.
1437789;1458617114;asciilifeform;it was the rationale b000k that sold me on putting on the apocalyptic gas mask and doing ada at all.
1437790;1458617152;mircea_popescu;and we don't even have the fucking conceptual girder to even comprehend what the rationale'd be on (in terms of, what are the primitives)
1437791;1458617181;mircea_popescu;maybe it should be all based on colors for all we know.
1437792;1458617188;asciilifeform;quaternions!11
1437793;1458617286;mats;on a moar flippant note,
1437794;1458617314;mats;i found a 24x36in wooden frame and currently looking for pranks to play with it (apr1 is fast approaching)
1437795;1458617350;mats;my best idea is to print a hi-res portrait of a coworker and put something like 'January 1985 to March 2016' at the bottom, then hide in the office somewhere
1437796;1458617362;mats;but, i am open to proposals
1437797;1458617433;mircea_popescu;make a fake wasp nest ?
1437798;1458617593;mats;(idea with prior is, folks see portrait, then coworker, wonder why a dead man is walking around)
1437799;1458617659;mats;a wasps nest could be good, however, i am not strong in the crafting arts
1437800;1458617873;mats;i also considered a portrait of myself, perhaps in a classic mao pose
1437801;1458617946;mats;or deng xiaoping
1437802;1458619368;mod6;oh boy, here we go... http://dpaste.com/2S6W9QR
1437803;1458619369;assbot;dpaste: 2S6W9QR ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rf3Uzg )
1437804;1458619399;mod6;works, seems will take some getting used to though.
1437805;1458619658;asciilifeform;congrats mod6!
1437806;1458619859;asciilifeform;ada isn't, contrary to appearances, simply a 'bloated c' though.
1437807;1458619909;asciilifeform;it has some mighty aggressive sanity enforcement mechanisms, that really shine in larger proggy.
1437808;1458620267;mod6;coo
1437809;1458620364;mod6;i'll have to keep picking away at it.
1437810;1458623067;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Census says… - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/21/census-says/
1437811;1458623927;ben_vulpes;tmsr
1437812;1458623930;ben_vulpes;motherfucking moving target
1437813;1458626940;kakobrekla;deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0BXHXEK.txt
1437814;1458626942;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1U3ElVn )
1437815;1458626948;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1437816;1458629700;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437592 <<< sexy!
1437817;1458629700;assbot;Logged on 21-03-2016 23:31:19; ben_vulpes: in more finely-tuned news: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/J85_ge_17a_turbojet_engine.jpg
1437818;1458632541;BingoBoingo;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437635 << They want a new test case. Dialectic continues.
1437819;1458632541;assbot;Logged on 22-03-2016 00:16:30; asciilifeform: (the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?)
1437820;1458634730;mats;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates
1437821;1458634731;assbot;Redirect Notice ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEJZv5 )
1437822;1458634762;mats;oops... http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates
1437823;1458634763;assbot;Brussels airport: casualties reported after explosions – live updates | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEK0PK )
1437824;1458635973;BingoBoingo;I thought JCVD was supposed to keep these things from happening in Belgium because Action Movie!
1437825;1458641154;jurov;http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/visiting-scarfolk/ british culture ftw
1437826;1458641156;assbot;Visiting Scarfolk, the Most Spectacular Dystopia of the 1970s | Collectors Weekly ... ( http://bit.ly/1T4Yedy )
1437827;1458641201;jurov;"Children carry more than 72 known diseases. A bite or scratch can be fatal."
1437828;1458641269;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00041887 = 7.1916 BTC [+]
1437829;1458645417;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/JytKLG.jpg
1437830;1458645418;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/22tuqNX )
1437831;1458649127;davout;http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2016/03/22/bitcoin-crise-de-croissance-et-querelle-de-chapelle_4887776_3234.html
1437832;1458649127;assbot;Bitcoin : crise de croissance et querelle de chapelle ... ( http://bit.ly/1MkreN3 )
1437833;1458649143;davout;major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo
1437834;1458649148;deedbot-;[Qntra] Gawker Media Total Damages Up To 140.1 Million dollars - http://qntra.net/2016/03/gawker-media-total-damages-up-to-140-1-million-dollars/
1437835;1458649318;*;BingoBoingo enjoys the "actual damages" getting nice round numbers while punitive damages get a decimal point
1437836;1458650422;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437820 << just when usg cryptowarz were sagging... snackbar!111
1437837;1458650422;assbot;Logged on 22-03-2016 08:18:50; mats: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates
1437838;1458650485;asciilifeform;related orlol: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-color-counterrevolution-cometh.html
1437839;1458650486;assbot;ClubOrlov: The Color Counterrevolution Cometh ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sf9x0s )
1437840;1458650548;asciilifeform;where he drinks the loljuice,
1437841;1458650556;asciilifeform;'As I said, the Washington régime is just as hated within the US as it is around the world, if not more. Trump's slogan of “Make America great again!” may sound overly ambitious, but what if his promise is to make America great again at exactly one thing—throwing members of the Washington régime on the ground and stomping on their heads until they pop? I am pretty sure that he can get this done.'
1437842;1458650679;jurov;orlov believes in trump?
1437843;1458650849;asciilifeform;jurov: apparently
1437844;1458651628;asciilifeform;'You see, in the US hatred of the Washington régime runs very deep, with millions of people sick and tired of being swindled by various hated bureaucracies—in government, law, medicine, education, the military, banking... They hate those who took away their jobs and gave them to foreigners and immigrants. They hate those who stole their retirement savings and ruined their children's futures. They hate the smug university type
1437845;1458651628;asciilifeform;making them feel inadequate simply for being who they are—salt of the earth Americans, racist, bigoted, small-minded, parochial, willfully ignorant, armed to the teeth and proud of it. There is very little that the régime can ask of these people, because the response to every possible ask is “no, because we hate you.”'
1437846;1458652501;asciilifeform;in other lulz,
1437847;1458652507;asciilifeform;from today's server logz,
1437848;1458652521;asciilifeform;http://www.twitter/Tweet_a_bad_word_about_an_american_corporation_and_your_tweets_all_get_hidden_from_other_members
1437849;1458652521;asciilifeform;http://Microsoft.com/IIS_Web-Server_is_a_NSA_Virus_so_it_is-good_to_see_you_are_not_using_windows_web_Server HTTP/1.1
1437850;1458652522;assbot;We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S3eZB3 )
1437851;1458652522;asciilifeform;http://Please.com/Do_NOT_Embed_anyting_in_your_site_that_links_to/Google/Twitter/Facebook/YouTube_or_any_other_NSA_controlled_sites
1437852;1458652567;jurov;these are http requests to your server?
1437853;1458653893;davout;https://twitter.com/CrisiscenterBE/status/712251640594702336
1437854;1458658857;asciilifeform;jurov: aha
1437855;1458658862;asciilifeform;referheaderspam.
1437856;1458660762;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/ << here you go phf
1437857;1458660763;assbot;Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwXmZN )
1437858;1458661716;deedbot-;[Trilema] Republican History of Jewry - http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/
1437859;1458661905;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> motherfucking moving target << check out the premonitory quality of the vulpes.
1437860;1458661958;mircea_popescu;"querelle de chapelle" eh.
1437861;1458662148;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform note that technically, the machine can be powered on anything. soviets dekulakized the very dekulakizers at least twice ; mao did it at least once,
1437862;1458662172;mircea_popescu;there's nothing special about the various clones of bill de blasio that prevents them from being made into soap.
1437863;1458662199;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/#comment-116820
1437864;1458662200;assbot;Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwYoFj )
1437865;1458662204;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, best soap
1437866;1458662283;mircea_popescu;answer't.
1437867;1458662361;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/#comment-116822
1437868;1458662362;assbot;Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdORHs )
1437869;1458662572;mircea_popescu;in other news, asciilifeform you ever saw http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109508/ ?
1437870;1458662573;assbot;Crumb (1994) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdPwbR )
1437871;1458662580;mircea_popescu;great documentary. (i'm also a crumb fan, so)
1437872;1458662616;asciilifeform;i have not, but it sounds like precisely my sort of thing.
1437873;1458662621;*;asciilifeform puts on list
1437874;1458662632;mircea_popescu;it's one of the best made documentaries i ever saw.
1437875;1458662642;mircea_popescu;zwigoff has the decency to stfu and stay away.
1437876;1458662663;asciilifeform;mouth-watering
1437877;1458662665;asciilifeform;srsly
1437878;1458662812;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/#comment-116824
1437879;1458662813;assbot;Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwYKM6 )
1437880;1458663417;asciilifeform;'... the horde of imbeciles trying to destroy the tower of actual people is very properly the French attack' << inescapably, >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-08-2014#809506 << mental image
1437881;1458663417;assbot;Logged on 26-08-2014 01:48:43; asciilifeform: even this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/SuurToll has a page.
1437882;1458663472;asciilifeform;mega-recommended cartoon, it shows what my mental picture of mircea_popescu looks like
1437883;1458663606;asciilifeform;( giant, flattens thousands of orcs by wielding an old piece of junk, for as long as he can )
1437884;1458664582;asciilifeform;;;later tell mod6 http://www.cs.uni.edu/~mccormic/AdaEssentials/toc.htm << another golden oldie
1437885;1458664583;assbot;TableOfContents ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rx0tAX )
1437886;1458664583;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1437887;1458665141;kakobrekla;for mp and others: http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/#comment-8200
1437888;1458665142;assbot;BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rx2j4S )
1437889;1458667850;asciilifeform;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5881 << lulzy
1437890;1458667851;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 6 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1VAzFWO )
1437891;1458670813;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1437892;1458670821;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.24, vol: 3765.96832155 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.851, vol: 5469.25419 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.84, vol: 10558.83503659 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.745285, vol: 33763.96200000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.47, vol: 2197.14009358 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.410112, vol: 38.75157245 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.213873349
1437893;1458671249;ben_vulpes;davout: http://i.imgur.com/uH98Hyq.jpg
1437894;1458671255;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1S3VHLV )
1437895;1458671541;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i think i saw this engine in person
1437896;1458671801;ben_vulpes;neato!
1437897;1458673948;BingoBoingo;Toronto Mayor Rob Ford has passed away
1437898;1458674036;nubbins`;former mayor!
1437899;1458674060;nubbins`;i would've put money on a heart attack, perhaps exacerbated by drug use, not cancer
1437900;1458674088;phf;ben_vulpes: do you know any css libraries that will give me bootstrap style layout techniques, without rest of bootstrap (columns, show/hide conditional based on medium)
1437901;1458674173;trinque;phf: ever use flexbox? something resembling a layout system ended up in the standard itself
1437902;1458674214;trinque;my approach tends to be to set different flexbox rules depending on viewport size
1437903;1458674265;phf;that looks neat, but is there a compiler that adds retro compatibility?
1437904;1458674333;trinque;phf: https://github.com/10up/flexibility << cannot vouch for, but appears to be a polyfill for it
1437905;1458674335;assbot;GitHub - 10up/flexibility: Use flexbox while supporting older Internet Explorers ... ( http://bit.ly/1RiOfwB )
1437906;1458674480;phf;that's a bit too many dirty words for my taste, but i'll give it a try
1437907;1458674721;deedbot-;[Qntra] Brussels Attacked – Western Dream Likely Over - http://qntra.net/2016/03/brussels-attacked-western-dream-likely-over/
1437908;1458675274;asciilifeform;!up mrottenkolber
1437909;1458675306;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: v-related question?
1437910;1458675418;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: ask away, you are speaking with author of original v
1437911;1458675627;asciilifeform;in unrelated nyooz,
1437912;1458675629;asciilifeform;http://nozdr.ru/biblio/kolxo3/m/ma
1437913;1458675636;asciilifeform;^^ l337 w4r3z!111 ^^
1437914;1458675874;nubbins`;!
1437915;1458675882;nubbins`;asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet?
1437916;1458676022;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: So I dowloaded v99.tar.gz because I thought it was a cool hack, and expected the following to work: (inside the v99 directory): ./v.py -v --wot wot --seals sigs patches f
1437917;1458676033;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: But I get WARNING: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig is an INVALID seal for asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch !
1437918;1458676062;nubbins`;mrottenkolber did you try manually verifying the sig?
1437919;1458676265;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: mod6 packaged a since-expired key for me in that thing
1437920;1458676269;asciilifeform;and afaik never updated.
1437921;1458676278;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: yep I think thats it.
1437922;1458676306;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: get current one from http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB98228A001ABFFC7 or http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc
1437923;1458676307;assbot;Public Key Server -- Get "0xb98228a001abffc7 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1TFOcit )
1437924;1458676309;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1mwR9Wt )
1437925;1458676470;mrottenkolber;Cool works.
1437926;1458676520;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: enjoy
1437927;1458676581;mrottenkolber;Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? (thinking about porting V to git hooks/aliases)
1437928;1458676652;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: sha1 is obsolete
1437929;1458676677;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: see also https://sites.google.com/site/itstheshappening
1437930;1458676679;assbot;The Shappening ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pk0paJ )
1437931;1458676686;asciilifeform;forget about using it. for anything.
1437932;1458676718;asciilifeform;and porting v onto git is considerably more of a waste of time than the reins on early motorcars
1437933;1458676730;asciilifeform;the WHOLE POINT of v is to ditch git and all things like it.
1437934;1458676884;asciilifeform;whatever things in git world you miss in v, they were excluded DELIBERATELY
1437935;1458677086;asciilifeform;!up mrottenkolber
1437936;1458677136;asciilifeform;no explicit use, for instance, is made of the network.
1437937;1458677144;asciilifeform;it is entirely up to you how to get new patches into and out of the box
1437938;1458677150;asciilifeform;can use sneakernet and floppies if you like.
1437939;1458677156;mrottenkolber;or git? ;-)
1437940;1458677162;asciilifeform;or carrier pigeon.
1437941;1458677242;asciilifeform;and yes, you are free to replace the hash with sha1 or md5 or crc32 or whatever, just like you are free to buy a toyota and drive it off a cliff
1437942;1458677254;asciilifeform;neither i nor toyota have any business saying what you do.
1437943;1458677298;mrottenkolber;My point is the toposort isn't really part of the problem v solves. The function is to cryptographically verfiy a sequence of patches (based on a wot), who cares where that sequence comes from, as long as each patch (commit) has a signature.
1437944;1458677301;asciilifeform;see in particular http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis 0x00
1437945;1458677302;assbot;The V Manual Genesis on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VBcxqY )
1437946;1458677330;asciilifeform;the toposort ~is~ part of it.
1437947;1458677339;asciilifeform;without it, you just have a bag of patches, to be sorted manually
1437948;1458677350;asciilifeform;which you did not need a program for, could have done it without me just as well
1437949;1458677390;asciilifeform;likewise, the file hashes ~are~ a part of v, it is how you know that the prescribed flow of patches is being successfully followed.
1437950;1458677399;asciilifeform;again, without this, you have 'faith-based' patching.
1437951;1458677423;asciilifeform;the nailing down of the BITWISE identities of the intermediates, ~is~ part of the point of v.
1437952;1458677474;asciilifeform;the correct context in which v is to be understood is that it is: a weapon of war.
1437953;1458677481;asciilifeform;there is an enemy.
1437954;1458677522;trinque;!up Alopex
1437955;1458677526;trinque;!up B0g4r7__
1437956;1458677529;asciilifeform;the primary weapon of the enemy is the morass of 'nobody read this, nobody understood this' crapolade that 'everything depends on'
1437957;1458677532;asciilifeform;e.g., git.
1437958;1458677534;asciilifeform;e.g., dns.
1437959;1458677557;phf;mrottenkolber: if that's your only goal, you don't need v for that. git already does it for you by having a linearly hashed commit chain. right now you have a reasonable way of verifying the git chain from the top hash, but you can't make any crypto claims about it, since the hashes are sha1
1437960;1458677590;asciilifeform;the modus operandi of the enemy is to insert 'bugs', e.g., 'heartbleed', and to prevent attribution.
1437961;1458677604;asciilifeform;'everything' in 'open source' was written by 'everybody and nobody'.
1437962;1458677613;asciilifeform;v is so as to put an end to this idiocy.
1437963;1458677628;mrottenkolber;phf: That's why I thought about adding signatures of “git vdiff” to commit messages and an alias/command to verify a branch.
1437964;1458677697;asciilifeform;phf: not only are git hashes sha1, but git itself is a gigantic bag of ?????.
1437965;1458677707;asciilifeform;that i for one have not read nor verified, nor intend to
1437966;1458677714;asciilifeform;wake me up when it's 100 lines TOTAL
1437967;1458677731;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: what about diff and gnupg?
1437968;1458677748;mrottenkolber;actually nvm
1437969;1458677751;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: these are in the queue for replacement.
1437970;1458677759;asciilifeform;by things that WE wrote and UNDERSTAND.
1437971;1458677791;asciilifeform;but yes, they are sore spots, and due for the chopping block.
1437972;1458677803;mrottenkolber;I have to say I like your spirit very much.
1437973;1458677820;asciilifeform;it is total war.
1437974;1458677827;mrottenkolber;its always been
1437975;1458677832;mrottenkolber;I guess
1437976;1458677851;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: consider getting in the wot, i will rate you.
1437977;1458677855;asciilifeform;you will be able to voice.
1437978;1458677879;phf;asciilifeform: well, you can verify data without verifying git. i've done it, and the thing definitely produces a semblance of "blockchain", i.e. later commits hashes previous commits' hashes, so you can if you ignore the sha1 issue, take a git branch and confirm its uniqueness from the final hash
1437979;1458677880;asciilifeform;http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets
1437980;1458677881;assbot;first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )
1437981;1458677907;mrottenkolber;will probably not be chatting that much, but I am very keen of actually starting to build some wotness. My gpg is useless right now its so bare.
1437982;1458677907;asciilifeform;phf: thing is that i have no intention of ignoring the sha1 issue. sha1 is ~broken~.
1437983;1458677943;mrottenkolber;yeah no, you would have to compute sha512
1437984;1458677964;mrottenkolber;which is possible, just not as convenient
1437985;1458678102;asciilifeform;'convenient' does not enter into this.
1437986;1458678125;asciilifeform;using a curtain instead of front door to your house is also likewise 'convenient'
1437987;1458678184;mrottenkolber;!register 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75
1437988;1458678184;assbot;Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75. This may take a few moments.
1437989;1458678184;assbot;Key CF4CDA75 / "Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy>" successfully imported.
1437990;1458678184;assbot;Registration successful.
1437991;1458678209;mrottenkolber;booya
1437992;1458678283;phf;mrottenkolber: a better place to wire v would be mercurial's mq facility. mercurial has a way of managing plaintext patchsets, to do things like patch refresh, i.e update the contents of patch from the current tree state, mercurial managed patch press, i.e. instead of doing "manual" v press hg will keep track of state for you, etc. this will not be a way to share patches, as much as a way to facilitate vpatch authoring.
1437993;1458678289;asciilifeform;!rate mrottenkolber 1 new blood
1437994;1458678290;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a5e3416520d38fcd
1437995;1458678333;asciilifeform;!assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mrottenkolber.1:68c6afed7ec0113bb290a9e2f0b609f2ea8216f0d0820a80a690cf9960e20096
1437996;1458678336;asciilifeform;!v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mrottenkolber.1:68c6afed7ec0113bb290a9e2f0b609f2ea8216f0d0820a80a690cf9960e20096
1437997;1458678336;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: new blood
1437998;1458678349;mrottenkolber;I am only mentioning the sha1 option because I don't understand crypto well enough to be able to rationalize the effort of producing a file, with the same sha1sum, with an exploit while the patch still applies.
1437999;1458678388;mrottenkolber;Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it.
1438000;1458678430;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: you should be able to voice yourself now.
1438001;1458678454;mrottenkolber;But e.g. in my head, if you spend 70k to compute a sha1 collision, it won't look like C code probably ;-)
1438002;1458678470;mrottenkolber;(complete speculation)
1438003;1458678487;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: this is not the important bit. a collision will successfully interfere with the function of automated vtrons, e.g., one where patches are thrown into a hopper unattended
1438004;1458678506;asciilifeform;even if the result does not resemble code
1438005;1458678531;mrottenkolber;hopper?
1438006;1458678553;asciilifeform;well suppose you have a box which accepts patches via email, as jurov has.
1438007;1458678720;asciilifeform;congrats mrottenkolber
1438008;1458678727;mrottenkolber;Cool bot!
1438009;1458678754;mrottenkolber;But... am I even connected using ssl? no idea
1438010;1458678755;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: how did you come upon b-a ?
1438011;1458678762;mircea_popescu;will be signign the davout application later today myself.
1438012;1458678793;mrottenkolber;I read about v and liked the hack, ran into the expired signature and well...
1438013;1458678802;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: read where
1438014;1458678814;mrottenkolber;HN probably
1438015;1458678823;mircea_popescu;mrottenkolber> Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? << roughly speaking you'd be going back in time, we're by and large in the process of moving to sha-3
1438016;1458678900;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform something tells me commenter has never seen hyenas. wtf, some of the most social animals, in its good days washington dc polite society more or less approximates pack of hyenas.
1438017;1458678912;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha!
1438018;1458678917;asciilifeform;they do! i have seen.
1438019;1458678930;mrottenkolber;I have absolutely no interest in bitcoin to be honest, don't see the point.
1438020;1458678945;asciilifeform;'After the burial-parties leave. And the baffled kites have fled;. The wise hyænas come out at eve. To take account of our dead. '
1438021;1458678948;asciilifeform;(kipling)
1438022;1458678949;mircea_popescu;mrottenkolber nothing i said was related to bitcoin, was it ?
1438023;1458678979;mrottenkolber;mircea_popescu: No, sorry, still mumbling aout the why I am in b-a
1438024;1458678984;mircea_popescu;ah ah.
1438025;1458678997;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: you are in good company, i also do not use bitcoin with any appreciable frequency...
1438026;1458679007;asciilifeform;v and bitcoin are related by happenstance, as git and linux kernel were.
1438027;1458679022;mircea_popescu;well if you're curious, free money is the basis for the existence of the republic which is the reason stuff like v ended up existing. but i suppose from outside this string of actual events may as well be coincidental.
1438028;1458679186;mrottenkolber;I totally get why bitcoin development motivates v, obviously there is motivation for adversaries here.
1438029;1458679186;mrottenkolber;what republic though?
1438030;1458679295;mrottenkolber;I am indeed using ssl to connect to freenode, this assbot thing might actually work. :D
1438031;1458679320;mircea_popescu;!s tmsr
1438032;1458679321;assbot;199 results for 'tmsr' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tmsr
1438033;1458679370;phf;we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
1438034;1458679383;mircea_popescu;turns out, re prev tagging discussion, that ... we're already doing a rudimentary, grassroots sort of that.
1438035;1458679392;trinque;there's some lovely filth over here!
1438036;1458679399;mrottenkolber;oh anarcho-syndicalism I dig that
1438037;1458679405;mircea_popescu;but my main concern with that scheme, upon meditation, is that... ok, brace yourselves :
1438038;1458679417;mircea_popescu;mrottenkolber don't kid yourself, they're living in a dictator sheep.
1438039;1458679423;phf;trinque: now you're confusing it with eulora
1438040;1458679433;trinque;lol
1438041;1458679450;mircea_popescu;so, IF we start tagging things in chan, this is indistinguishable from good old spam. (textual content of no textual intent).
1438042;1458679460;mircea_popescu;i suppose this could be mediated by doing the tagging over pm
1438043;1458679486;mircea_popescu;but the problem is actually hairer than hoped.
1438044;1458679585;trinque;hm. it does invite that abominable hashtag social media tic.
1438045;1458679654;davout;please no #b-ashtags
1438046;1458679668;phf;#meta #tmsr~
1438047;1458679695;davout;if nobody remembers how to find a particular thread, maybe that thread isn't really worth remembering after all
1438048;1458679729;mircea_popescu;davout the original complaint was re completeness.
1438049;1458679750;mircea_popescu;if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty.
1438050;1458679772;davout;re the mp describes a HF that danielpbarron ended up blawging about?
1438051;1458679785;mircea_popescu;sorry ?
1438052;1458679805;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: Ah there go found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11317378 (my browser history scares me)
1438053;1458679806;assbot;Vectored Signatures | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1pvFQi8 )
1438054;1458679813;mircea_popescu;phf either b,tmsr~ or else tmsr! there is no tmsr~!
1438055;1458679856;davout;ok, i meant that this issue came up when you were talking about "what should go into a tmsr fork" that danielpbarron ended up summarizing on his blog?
1438056;1458679892;mircea_popescu;ah yeah i think that was when it came up
1438057;1458679930;davout;anyway, my point is that if nobody remembers, that nobody bothered to blog it, the fact that completeness is a problem might indicate a violation of fits-in-head
1438058;1458679946;mircea_popescu;so it might, yeah...
1438059;1458679971;ben_vulpes;fitting in head requires lopping all extraneous log comments off.
1438060;1458679978;mircea_popescu;would actually the idea of pm tagging for each DAY solve anything / be worth anything ?
1438061;1458679992;mircea_popescu;or is it the sort of midway solution that's the average of man and woman and horse and chimney ?
1438062;1458679993;ben_vulpes;i recently took a 45 minute sojourn into the history of "protocol vs. promise"
1438063;1458680028;ben_vulpes;'twas not actually that hard, but it did take knowing the variety speak thoroughly.
1438064;1458680038;davout;mircea_popescu: maybe use log.b-a.com for that purpose? how would pm tagging work?
1438065;1458680059;mircea_popescu;the sad fact of the matter is that summarization squarely relies on ignorance. there's no obvious way around that rock.
1438066;1458680079;mircea_popescu;davout you pm deedbot with a list of strings which it retains for the day, prints a cloud somewhere, one can click items in cloud to get list of days so tagged
1438067;1458680087;mircea_popescu;but the complexity of this notion is rapidly expanding.
1438068;1458680091;ben_vulpes;another good topic is "specificity of diddling".
1438069;1458680117;ben_vulpes;i have been failing to shit words on the topic out because i think of familiarity with it. it all seems so obvious!
1438070;1458680167;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema!
1438071;1458680183;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-11-2015#1329599 << summarization also relies on knowing precisely what /can/ be snipped.
1438072;1458680183;assbot;Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.
1438073;1458680194;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes what can be snipped FOR WHOM.
1438074;1458680198;ben_vulpes;catch-22
1438075;1458680217;mircea_popescu;~only way to make a shorter text reliably is to rely on specified notation known in advance.
1438076;1458680245;mircea_popescu;otherwise, "compression" still an open problem.
1438077;1458680327;mircea_popescu;!rate mrottenkolber 1 New blood
1438078;1458680327;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9de879a999b2be22
1438079;1458680350;mircea_popescu;!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mrottenkolber.1:7ae7bb4fe0a9bf41b838dc065d19fceca42142f999e7016fa2cd143e92a2412f
1438080;1458680350;assbot;Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: New blood
1438081;1458680404;mircea_popescu;phf i heard this privately too, during rebasing debate, "pretty much the only way to manage this insanity is to put it on mercurial"
1438082;1458680429;mircea_popescu;mrottenkolber> Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it.  << trivial, add comment.
1438083;1458680443;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: still regretting not doing that ?
1438084;1458680453;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform doing what ?
1438085;1458680455;asciilifeform;(someone iirc actually said 'use darcs')
1438086;1458680461;asciilifeform;going with heathen versionatrons
1438087;1458680492;mircea_popescu;non, rien de rien, je ne regrette rien! ni le bon, ni le mal...
1438088;1458680499;asciilifeform;^
1438089;1458680522;mircea_popescu;i wish she was in fucking b-a.
1438090;1458680556;asciilifeform;can we also haz marilyn m ?
1438091;1458680575;mircea_popescu;what do you need buttgirl in irc for ? buy her lunch.
1438092;1458680613;asciilifeform;point.
1438093;1458680626;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1438049 << the only solution is with actual brainz, folks writin' articles.
1438094;1458680626;assbot;Logged on 22-03-2016 20:49:10; mircea_popescu: if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty.
1438095;1458680642;asciilifeform;sorta what pete_dushenski was trying to do at one time
1438096;1458680644;asciilifeform;iirc
1438097;1458680645;mircea_popescu;sorry, can't have brainz. zombies ate them ~all.
1438098;1458680658;phf;mercurial has a handy patch management mechanism, that unfortunatly doesn't understand nor produces vpatches. i basically verify vpatches manually, and then put them into hg's patch folder. then i do a topo sort, which gives me a mercurial compatible "series" file. i let mercurial press it using that series file. whole process is more complicated then should be with a proper mercurial support, but i hnfi how people rebase, refresh,
1438099;1458680658;phf;diff, etc. without it
1438100;1458680724;phf;mechanism has nothing to do with "mercurial" as such, and is more akin to old school patch management system, "quilt"
1438101;1458680771;phf;https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/MqExtension and http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/quilt for the curious
1438102;1458680772;assbot;MqExtension - Mercurial ... ( http://bit.ly/1ULuMcu )
1438103;1458680774;assbot;Quilt - Summary [Savannah] ... ( http://bit.ly/1ULuMcB )
1438104;1458680788;mircea_popescu;not like it couldn't in principle be gutted/rewritten in part.
1438105;1458680790;ben_vulpes;i press to confirm patch validity and then commit the changes to my local version controlatron.
1438106;1458680803;ben_vulpes;that way i can rebase, etc whenever i care to.
1438107;1458680806;mircea_popescu;chocolatron ?
1438108;1458680814;mircea_popescu;o nm.
1438109;1458680821;asciilifeform;am i the only one without fancy mechanisms here ?
1438110;1458680829;ben_vulpes;what about this is fancy?
1438111;1458680830;mircea_popescu;nah, i generally don't do any of that either.
1438112;1458680840;mircea_popescu;then again, the people who aren't me that actually care/understand computers tend to .
1438113;1458680840;asciilifeform;i use v + bare teeth
1438114;1458680863;ben_vulpes;yes but you like pain
1438115;1458680872;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i like right pain
1438116;1458680878;asciilifeform;not idiot rote
1438117;1458680900;asciilifeform;but i was reluctant to write v, if you recall, because i considered the problem it solves to be a trivial / muscle thing
1438118;1458680907;ben_vulpes;aha
1438119;1458680914;asciilifeform;but iirc mircea_popescu & hanbot et al disagreed, so v had to be.
1438120;1458680939;mircea_popescu;it's splendid, really. the fact that i can run it on a random box and trust the result pales anything else.
1438121;1458680942;ben_vulpes;perhaps the *other* way to go about this is simply to make patches against the base 0.5.3, and then anyone wanting to apply them may do so in whatever order they choose, resolving conflicts as they feel.
1438122;1458680960;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: this'd result in gargantuan lengths of duplicated crapola
1438123;1458680964;asciilifeform;ick
1438124;1458680968;mircea_popescu;well alternatively one could also shit on exposed cable and let the bits sort themselves into software as they will
1438125;1458680968;ben_vulpes;why?
1438126;1458680977;mircea_popescu;why the hell not. how much worse than present situation could it be.
1438127;1458680978;ben_vulpes;onm.
1438128;1458680979;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i'm not reading a MB of crud i've seen before.
1438129;1458680989;asciilifeform;i'd rather shit in the cable.
1438130;1458680993;ben_vulpes;yes yes
1438131;1458680993;asciilifeform;as per mircea_popescu's formula.
1438132;1458680995;ben_vulpes;fine.
1438133;1458681028;asciilifeform;understand, a 10kB patch is ~LONG~
1438134;1458681039;mircea_popescu;no, v is great even if painful - because it's painful to the right people, which are the people who aren't me.
1438135;1458681078;ben_vulpes;and only if used as a hammer and not microscope.
1438136;1458681088;mircea_popescu;that's the other thjing.
1438137;1458681096;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is also very painful to the enemy at the business end of the barrel, which is what matters
1438138;1458681113;asciilifeform;but yes, like kalash, it is not built for comfort of the wielder so much as for maximum effect.
1438139;1458681114;mircea_popescu;that's what i said!
1438140;1458681165;asciilifeform;kalash is not even my model for imitation, but closer to... japanese lance mine.
1438141;1458681908;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1438070 << aaaactually mircea_popescu invented specificity-of-diddling-theorem, i just heavisided it
1438142;1458681908;assbot;Logged on 22-03-2016 20:56:07; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema!
1438143;1458681977;asciilifeform;well, he ampered it, at least, and i did some of the maxwellizing and pretty much all of the heavisiding.
1438144;1458682286;mircea_popescu;eh, the chinese invented it 3k years ago
1438145;1458682307;mircea_popescu;invention is like true love. you gotta be a certain age to believe it with all your heart.
1438146;1458682315;mircea_popescu;hopefully you never get old enough to credit it altogether.
1438147;1458682326;mircea_popescu;to stop crediting it altogether, i mean.
1438148;1458682432;asciilifeform;going for modest thing here, not trooo luvvv, but good fuq.
1438149;1458682443;asciilifeform;this - can be had.
1438150;1458682853;*;davout guesses that's one field where stuff done by hand is actually easier
1438151;1458684402;nubbins`;!up benrav
1438152;1458684495;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437915 << possibly, i have not yet picked it up
1438153;1458684495;assbot;Logged on 22-03-2016 19:44:42; nubbins`: asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet?
1438154;1458684524;asciilifeform;nubbins`: the post in my town keeps 'banker hours'
1438155;1458684593;nubbins`;banking, where the hours are great even if the pay sucks
1438156;1458685171;nubbins`;so i built a "hackintosh" computer, just realized i hadn't bothered to put the video card into the thing
1438157;1458685680;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: boxes do not get delivered to your domicile?
1438158;1458685729;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: valuable/unique items from ~humans~, i like to sit at the post
1438159;1458685802;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: parcels from commercial mega-vendors, can go to the house, if they get misplaced insurance pays.
1438160;1458685883;ben_vulpes;this is a special hell of paranoia, asciilifeform.
1438161;1458685966;mircea_popescu;;;bc,stats
1438162;1458685970;gribble;Current Blocks: 403836 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 1379 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1438163;1458685989;mircea_popescu;!up benrav
1438164;1458686031;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: we have diagnosable tards delivering parcels, they often end up miles away, for no discernible reason
1438165;1458687598;gernika;apropos of nothing, I just attempted to download a .pdf formatted datasheet and received a PDF FORMATTED error message.
1438166;1458688164;mircea_popescu;not bad lol.
1438167;1458688230;*;davout recently learned that PDF could contain javascript
1438168;1458688264;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437833 << i just read that and lolled. seriously, piece pretending nsa-gavin is somehow involved in or related to bitcoin ? leading with a quote from karpeles ? is this yves eudes hardcore trolling the collection of wanna-be derps that read le monde or what ?
1438169;1458688264;assbot;Logged on 22-03-2016 12:19:03; davout: major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo
1438170;1458688336;davout;where do you see a karpeles quote?
1438171;1458688339;davout;"Victime de son succès" ?
1438172;1458688341;mircea_popescu;well ?
1438173;1458688427;davout;well what?
1438174;1458688440;mircea_popescu;yes, that.
1438175;1458688450;mircea_popescu;"bitcoin in terms of gavin and maku kalaposu", a pretty good satirical premise, i grant.
1438176;1458688465;davout;anyway, the article is obviously a massive piece of shit, maybe you'll be interdasted in http://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2015/12/09/le-fondateur-du-bitcoin-enfin-demasque_4827912_4408996.html
1438177;1458688466;assbot;Le fondateur du bitcoin enfin démasqué en Australie ? ... ( http://bit.ly/21G8ZU1 )
1438178;1458688470;mrottenkolber;I preset... git-vdiff.sh (ducks): https://gist.github.com/eugeneia/7d34c270f8d1603c48f0
1438179;1458688471;assbot;git-vdiff.sh · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/21G90av )
1438180;1458688491;mircea_popescu;you pressed ?
1438181;1458688520;mircea_popescu;!up locksley
1438182;1458688600;mircea_popescu;mrottenkolber http://mr.gy is you ?
1438183;1458688602;assbot;Max Rottenkolber's personal website ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ry8kEM )
1438184;1458688925;mrottenkolber;it is
1438185;1458688935;mrottenkolber;I found https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Signing-Your-Work by the way
1438186;1458688936;assbot;Git - Signing Your Work ... ( http://bit.ly/21G9NZ6 )
1438187;1458688969;mrottenkolber;Not sure what `git commit -S' signs exactly, but...
1438188;1458689220;mrottenkolber;assuming it signs the whole commit object, given `merge --verify-signatures' is probably reasonably secure.
1438189;1458689234;mrottenkolber;Which I guess would be the parallel to press
1438190;1458689370;ben_vulpes;mrottenkolber: forgive my thickness but /why/ are you doing this?
1438191;1458689548;mrottenkolber;research
1438192;1458689679;trinque; +mrottenkolber │ assuming ... is probably reasonably secure. << pls do not give poor asciilifeform an early death by ulcer
1438193;1458690173;asciilifeform;http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2016/02/a-3d-printed-sundial-displays-time-like-a-digital-clock << mega-pr0gr355555
1438194;1458690175;assbot;A 3D Printed Sundial Displays Time Like a Digital Clock | Colossal ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyavIo )
1438195;1458690317;mircea_popescu;lol they finally found the true vocation of 3d printed items, glorified doorstops ?
1438196;1458691298;phf;mrottenkolber: unfortunately there seems to be no way to enforce security in git, no way to enable some always_gnupg flag, nor is there a mechanism to add default arguments to some builtin commands.
1438197;1458691446;phf;nor is there an easy way to answer "what was signed" question, short of reading source. you just have to assume that right bits go in, and that nobody's going to change what bits go in in future releases, etc.
1438198;1458692169;ben_vulpes;pretty good example of the "promise" end of the spectrum.
1438199;1458692330;phf;there's commit.gpgsign, but i don't see anything for --verify-signatures
1438200;1458692465;phf;suggested solutions include writing update hooks, that in turn involve plenty of goo' ol' foo=$(bar|sed|awk)
1438201;1458692509;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4131 @ 0.00042201 = 1.7433 BTC [+] {2} 
1438202;1458692596;gernika;I have a friend who may have found a valid use for 3d printers: he's built 4 of them in his garage and uses them to prototype electronic toy parts.
1438203;1458692620;gernika;aparently also uses random items such as various tupperware containers.
1438204;1458692804;ben_vulpes;why would you put food in that plastic
1438205;1458692839;gernika;so you can forget about it while it rots in the refrigerator?
1438206;1458693063;mircea_popescu;it's actually a pretty serious health risk. the plasticisers / other treatments that make the 3d feedstock behave sufficiently like ink are all items of concern in food chain.
1438207;1458693238;ben_vulpes;yech
1438208;1458693269;ben_vulpes;in other news, i finally put a tv in the conference room and it is now apparently the dedicated "5 hours of rocket explosions on a loop" device
1438209;1458693295;mircea_popescu;incidentally : the ancient myths of "person-in-construction" have a practical backing in the roman practice of using fat and sometimes blood as a plasticizer in concrete.
1438210;1458693302;mircea_popescu;it's a hugely interesting topic, this.
1438211;1458693342;mircea_popescu;strength of concrete is inverse to the added water, up to a point, but that makes it hard to work.
1438212;1458694374;mircea_popescu;and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/5d970ed60a915e5f9456ce72372542f8/tumblr_mpzy6dfGsu1rzjdvqo1_1280.jpg
1438213;1458694377;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjvfhE )
1438214;1458694746;mrottenkolber;why does assbot echo bit.ly links? seems redundant
1438215;1458694769;mircea_popescu;so you don't leak your ip by visiting links ; so you archive their contents if you want to.
1438216;1458695506;mod6;thanks for the link alf
1438217;1458697000;phf;so here's a definitive answer the question "gpg what you sign" http://paste.lisp.org/display/311222
1438218;1458697000;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyjOrS )
1438219;1458697129;phf;basically some equivalent of "tree 182073587b70313f13678c6e1389cb6c94dd3c69\nauthor foo <foo> 1458691972 -0400\ncommitter foo <foo> 1458691972 -0400\n commit message ... "
1438220;1458697142;mircea_popescu;is this a git extension ?
1438221;1458697342;phf;nah, above paste is a hack that repeats the steps that git goes through in order to verify a signature on a commit (as seen here https://github.com/git/git/blob/f02fbc4f9433937ee0463d0342d6d7d97e1f6f1e/commit.c#L1124), and purpose is to answer the question "wtf does git sign"
1438222;1458697344;assbot;git/commit.c at f02fbc4f9433937ee0463d0342d6d7d97e1f6f1e · git/git · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ryk9KY )
1438223;1458697438;mircea_popescu;a ok
1438224;1458697485;mrottenkolber;So I learned today that git does't use sha1 as I thought, but its own git-hash-object
1438225;1458697512;mrottenkolber;Which is probably less cryptographically “secure” as sha1 (wild guess)
1438226;1458697600;mrottenkolber;wait nvm
1438227;1458697617;mrottenkolber;oh its late, it uses sha1 obviously but not on plain files >.>
1438228;1458697728;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: there are threads in the logs re: poor hygiene of git.
1438229;1458697840;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438202 << somebody wake up diametric and his 11 (?) handmade 3d printerz
1438230;1458697840;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 00:23:16; gernika: I have a friend who may have found a valid use for 3d printers: he's built 4 of them in his garage and uses them to prototype electronic toy parts.
1438231;1458697880;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438206 << iirc most folks print with abs.
1438232;1458697880;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 00:31:03; mircea_popescu: it's actually a pretty serious health risk. the plasticisers / other treatments that make the 3d feedstock behave sufficiently like ink are all items of concern in food chain.
1438233;1458697897;asciilifeform;same thing of which your keyboard (if it is any good) is made.
1438234;1458697919;mircea_popescu;keyboard is already set ; and chock-full of phtalates when new.
1438235;1458697934;mod6;boy oh boy. looks like all you can hope for with Ada and issuing system commands is to redirect the output to a file, and the read the file.
1438236;1458697940;mod6;s/the/then/
1438237;1458697942;asciilifeform;abs is not thermosetting
1438238;1458697963;mircea_popescu;orly ?
1438239;1458697970;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: what do you mean by hygiene?
1438240;1458697971;asciilifeform;mod6: a proper vtron won't call out to shell
1438241;1458698027;mod6;gpg libs give me ulcers
1438242;1458698036;asciilifeform;mod6: there are no libs
1438243;1458698049;asciilifeform;mod6: correct vtron will exponentiate inside itself.
1438244;1458698069;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: abs melts and cools, and melts again, etc. this is why 3d printer is even a thing
1438245;1458698173;mod6;well, i guess i can appreciate that.  i was simply going to write a V in Ada as a way to learn Ada.
1438246;1458698281;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no phthalate in abs
1438247;1458698339;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: hygiene is a broad concept, but it starts with excluding known filth
1438248;1458698360;asciilifeform;and proceeds to throwing out the vaguely filthy and the contaminated-by-contact
1438249;1458698449;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438197 << illustration of what bad hygiene looks like
1438250;1458698449;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 00:04:06; phf: nor is there an easy way to answer "what was signed" question, short of reading source. you just have to assume that right bits go in, and that nobody's going to change what bits go in in future releases, etc.
1438251;1458698498;asciilifeform;more broadly, i have nfi what goes inside a '.git' directory, and the effort required to understand it is substantial
1438252;1458698525;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform iirc abs is the more expensive sort of ink.
1438253;1458698541;asciilifeform;(~understand~ meaning FULLY, as in - ~all~ edge cases)
1438254;1458698551;mrottenkolber;I can recommend “Git from the bottom up”, git at its core is actually quite... minimalistic.
1438255;1458698553;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the other popular feedstock is pla, which is made of corn exhaust
1438256;1458698571;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: how long is the git source and ALL dependencies.
1438257;1458698583;asciilifeform;that is what i am speaking of, when i say 'understand'
1438258;1458698595;mrottenkolber;and it was kind of obvious that it signs the commit object, I mean what else?
1438259;1458698612;mircea_popescu;i dunno why i thought it's mostly pvc. seems not.
1438260;1458698613;asciilifeform;so that'd be a hash of a hash ?
1438261;1458698624;trinque;mrottenkolber: behind the words one knows there can be an expanse of rusty gears and dirty secrets
1438262;1458698625;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wtf, nobody prints pvc, good way to gasenwagen
1438263;1458698649;asciilifeform;(pvc iirc releases hcl, in a room where it has been burned, electronics slowly rot away and must be written off)
1438264;1458698675;mircea_popescu;well, all burned plastics release something.
1438265;1458698689;mircea_popescu;abs iirc releases hcn.
1438266;1458698695;mrottenkolber;asciilifeform: I hash of some metadata and a hash of tons of hashes of tns of hashes lol
1438267;1458698732;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it does.
1438268;1458698750;trinque;mrottenkolber: consider that as specified the total source code involved in a vtron can *decrease* drastically from here.
1438269;1458698759;mircea_popescu;anyway. apparently all sorts of thing OTHER than polycarbonate are #7 now.
1438270;1458698760;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: but in either case 3d printer, unless catastrophically miscalibrated, does not ignite
1438271;1458698766;mircea_popescu;well done idjits for making a mess of things.
1438272;1458698794;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is, more or less, a 'glue gun on wheels'
1438273;1458698821;mircea_popescu;aha
1438274;1458698823;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they installed one at $rupturefarm a few days ago, i still can't quite figure out why, thing is huge
1438275;1458699063;mrottenkolber;good night guys
1438276;1458699063;mrottenkolber;see you around
1438277;1458699114;phf;mrottenkolber: things are always obvious until someone does the work discovery and then it's "who could've predicted"
1438278;1458699618;mircea_popescu;deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3KRPFFE.txt
1438279;1458699619;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RymTbh )
1438280;1458699622;deedbot-;accepted: 1
1438281;1458699634;mircea_popescu;davout ^ you're on.
1438282;1458699715;diametric;asciilifeform: most people use pla. it's a lot easier to deal with. abs requires higher temps and a heated bed.  but recently there are a lot of people printing with petg, and various composites.  i just saw some "ironfill", a blend of iron powder and pla.
1438283;1458699739;mircea_popescu;aha!
1438284;1458699767;mircea_popescu;diametric so what's the toxicity profile like, for the activity broadly speaking ?
1438285;1458699788;diametric;about the same as walking around a major city i imagine.
1438286;1458699809;diametric;theres a lot of talk about ufps
1438287;1458699851;mircea_popescu;ic
1438288;1458699851;diametric;but not a lot of peer reviewed evidence of any real danger
1438289;1458699853;asciilifeform;congrats davout !
1438290;1458699864;asciilifeform;welcome back to planet of civilization, diametric !
1438291;1458699878;diametric;i lurk
1438292;1458699933;diametric;mircea_popescu: i'll let you know if i develop popcorn lung
1438293;1458699942;mircea_popescu;kk!
1438294;1458699965;mircea_popescu;twas in my head closer to "you know, printer in 1930" than "you know, starbux barrista"
1438295;1458699986;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i think modern baseline is close to 'printer in 1930'
1438296;1458700001;mircea_popescu;also possibru
1438297;1458700011;asciilifeform;somewhere between that and 'match girl'
1438298;1458700049;asciilifeform;diametric: ironfill sounds interesting, can you steer it magnetically ?
1438299;1458700054;diametric;absolutely
1438300;1458700124;diametric;asciilifeform: https://www.matterhackers.com/3d-printer-filament-compare#composite-filament
1438301;1458700126;assbot;3D Printer Filament Comparison | MatterHackers ... ( http://bit.ly/1RynlGC )
1438302;1458700183;asciilifeform;the ceramic filament looks appealing, one could print molds and pour, e.g., al
1438303;1458700320;diametric;asciilifeform: its funny you bring up 3d printing, i just returned from the midwest reprap festival
1438304;1458700328;asciilifeform;neato!
1438305;1458700343;asciilifeform;any groundbreaking advances there ?
1438306;1458700372;diametric;some interesting vat related stuff on the sla side
1438307;1458700376;diametric;picked myself up a flex vat
1438308;1458700404;asciilifeform;the thing with the projector and photosensitive gel ?
1438309;1458700418;diametric;basically the vat for curing the SLA layers on is flexible, so when the print moves up a layer, the whole vat deforms in order to overcome the van der waals effect
1438310;1458700429;diametric;yeah
1438311;1458700448;asciilifeform;so looks something like the accordion from old daguerrotype camera ?
1438312;1458700471;mircea_popescu;more like a ball with inserts nah ?
1438313;1458700472;diametric;nah the vat is made out of a thin layer of FEP, so its like a clear rubber
1438314;1458700488;diametric;http://www.muve3d.net/press/product/flexvat/
1438315;1458700492;assbot;FlexVat – Standard and Large  | ... ( http://bit.ly/1WH3HGy )
1438316;1458700500;diametric;my buddy at seemecnc gave me one for free
1438317;1458700522;asciilifeform;hm, that looks like just a frame ?
1438318;1458700530;asciilifeform;where is the rubber
1438319;1458700545;diametric;zoom in
1438320;1458700553;diametric;its the clear thing held down by the frame
1438321;1458700563;diametric;thats actually not the one i got, hangon.
1438322;1458700575;diametric;http://www.seemecnc.com/products/universal-flexible-resin-vat-reservoir-for-diy-resin-printers
1438323;1458700576;assbot;Universal Flexible Resin Vat Reservoir for DIY resin printers – SeeMeCNC ... ( http://bit.ly/1WH3Mdf )
1438324;1458700590;diametric;its sandwiched in the frame
1438325;1458700593;diametric;a thin sheet of FEP
1438326;1458700604;asciilifeform;ah hm
1438327;1458700660;mircea_popescu;but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/887be64336a8812a974cba1fbd93e008/tumblr_nid02tKqmo1rmrwgqo1_1280.jpg
1438328;1458700661;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RynTMO )
1438329;1458700672;asciilifeform;l0l!
1438330;1458700707;asciilifeform;i'm actually mildly surprised that mircea_popescu doesn't have a 3d printer somewhere
1438331;1458700725;asciilifeform;and making custom butt plugs, gags, to 5% accuracy
1438332;1458700768;mircea_popescu;good buttplugs are surgical steel ; good gags cured leather etc.
1438333;1458700774;asciilifeform;ah hm.
1438334;1458700776;diametric;my favorite is still the giant thermochromatic cock
1438335;1458700777;mircea_popescu;really, little use for plastic in life.
1438336;1458700777;asciilifeform;then lathe!
1438337;1458700785;asciilifeform;and tanning shop.
1438338;1458702231;mircea_popescu;speaking of van der waals forces, apparently they've finally managed to make the spiderman suit.
1438339;1458702319;mircea_popescu;http://www.darpa.mil/program/z-man
1438340;1458702321;assbot;Z-Man ... ( http://bit.ly/1RypFxg )
1438341;1458712043;mircea_popescu;trinque ^
1438342;1458714451;trinque;mircea_popescu: ty
1438343;1458714936;mircea_popescu;nono, ty.
1438344;1458716446;deedbot-;[Qntra] BitBet Receiver Hired - http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitbet-receiver-hired/
1438345;1458716989;BingoBoingo;;;bc,stats
1438346;1458716992;gribble;Current Blocks: {"blockcount":403880} | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: None | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
1438347;1458716996;BingoBoingo;;;nethash
1438348;1458716996;gribble;1178960569.18
1438349;1458717007;BingoBoingo;;;8ball
1438350;1458717007;gribble;About as likely as pigs flying.
1438351;1458717223;mircea_popescu;nice BingoBoingo
1438352;1458717227;BingoBoingo;ty
1438353;1458717260;BingoBoingo;It's nice to be able to cover good news in the republic, its been a rough month for that.
1438354;1458717314;mircea_popescu;word.
1438355;1458721100;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/UYEj0B.png
1438356;1458721101;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1q1COmi )
1438357;1458721109;BingoBoingo;^ Ubuntu on stage
1438358;1458721595;BingoBoingo;In related news, typical fiat management http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20160321/former-fayette-animal-shelter-director-arrested
1438359;1458721598;assbot;Charleston Gazette-Mail | Former Fayette animal shelter director arrested ... ( http://bit.ly/1q1DjNc )
1438360;1458725158;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/C0c43
1438361;1458725419;davout;https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5888 <<< guy has a point
1438362;1458725420;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 2 weeks 9 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/22vqNHi )
1438363;1458725558;davout;basically is saying that one of the addresses included in the double payout got paid twice ~11 btc and has over 50 btc in pending bet payouts
1438364;1458725665;davout;more generally, it seems an important thing to me that bettor claims should be adjusted by the existence of a a previous double-payout, if any
1438365;1458727280;punkman;davout, makes sense
1438366;1458727535;punkman;are you gonna look for older double-payouts too?
1438367;1458727649;davout;probably not
1438368;1458727681;davout;if bitbet made it until now without this problem, it's probably a good indicator that such a thing never happened before
1438369;1458727743;punkman;pretty sure it did, or maybe I'm remembering double-dividends
1438370;1458727753;davout;I'm going to check that everything that was paid against currently unpaid/unresolved/open bets matches the cash mp sent me, and if so there won't really be a point in checking that
1438371;1458727788;davout;double-dividends is something that's much easier to fix :)
1438372;1458727816;davout;it's not a bug, it's a feature: Dividends-In-Advance(tm)(r)!!1
1438373;1458728687;punkman;http://www.redox-os.org/
1438374;1458728688;assbot;Redox - Your Next(Gen) OS ... ( http://bit.ly/1S5AWj0 )
1438375;1458733547;danielpbarron;sucks for bettors who reused addresses, huh
1438376;1458734162;davout;danielpbarron: howso?
1438377;1458734194;davout;some address 1foo got double-paid by X btc
1438378;1458734220;davout;same address has unpaid winnings for Y btc
1438379;1458734252;davout;actual payable claim would be Y - (X/2)
1438380;1458734572;danielpbarron;i get it, but if 1foo had never used that address for payout again, you'd never know which address to withhold from
1438381;1458734592;BingoBoingo;Aha, I knew it would happen, but I didn't know it would happen this early. The reciever is now burdened with CHOICE.
1438382;1458734612;davout;oic what you mean, i misunderstood
1438383;1458734954;BingoBoingo;http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/along-for-the-ride/set-ablaze-now-stolen-barrel-bob-modot-s-safety-mascot/article_dcc8a9d6-7081-500a-9b17-e8ad0bad4f33.html
1438384;1458735376;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438373 << fuck shitlangs and fuck i-could-have-made-anything-but-i-made-another-unix . with a red hot poker.
1438385;1458735376;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 10:24:47; punkman: http://www.redox-os.org/
1438386;1458735764;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438363 << interesting how none of these folks ever considered sending the doubled coin back... but they whine, whine, about delay!
1438387;1458735764;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 09:32:38; davout: basically is saying that one of the addresses included in the double payout got paid twice ~11 btc and has over 50 btc in pending bet payouts
1438388;1458735866;danielpbarron;why should anyone send coin back? as far as they should be concerned the extra payment had nothing to do with bitbet
1438389;1458735947;asciilifeform;actually i have nfi, did bbet use a published addr for pays?
1438390;1458735963;punkman;asciilifeform: no
1438391;1458735977;asciilifeform;and in any case it was pretty clear that it was double send, mircea_popescu published the tx
1438392;1458735992;asciilifeform;so this excuse was not available, danielpbarron
1438393;1458736144;asciilifeform;and yes, they had no obligation to send it back, etc. but if they had, there would be no reactor fire, and a still-operating bbet. that isn't about to be auctioned off to spammerz.
1438394;1458736179;punkman;/me bids 1 bitcoin for bitbet.us
1438395;1458736179;*;danielpbarron isn't so sure that would have been the case
1438396;1458736193;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: how's that
1438397;1458736228;danielpbarron;it was a matter of principle, not so much a lack of money
1438398;1458736262;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: the trigger was the money.
1438399;1458736265;BingoBoingo;Way to repay bitbet was crystal clear too. Propose 1+1=2 and bet on no.
1438400;1458736301;danielpbarron;or just send into any closed bet
1438401;1458736319;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nonsense, folks would bet on yes and win. danielpbarron has it.
1438402;1458736339;danielpbarron;heh i'd prolly have bet on yes lol
1438403;1458736368;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: But the 0-conf bet would have been wrong before approval. 0-conf Bets made the BitBet mixer go around
1438404;1458736499;BingoBoingo;;;later tell pete_dushenski https://archive.is/P3KBR
1438405;1458736502;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1438406;1458736512;davout;a diligent commenter did the math, the actual shortfall seems to be 4.37385306 btc -> https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5892
1438407;1458736513;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 2 weeks 12 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rg7ydD )
1438408;1458736567;*;asciilifeform saw this, hence the 'motherfuckers ~could~ have snt back' observation 
1438409;1458736601;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/O9zoN
1438410;1458736922;punkman;davout, what's gonna happen with bbet shares?
1438411;1458737017;davout;punkman: the idea of a receivership is that you sell assets, use the cash to pay outstanding claims, the rest, if any, goes to shareholder
1438412;1458737021;davout;*shareholders
1438413;1458737176;davout;and regarding S.BBET specifically there's 3.2 (a) reading "The representatives of BitBet have elected to divide BitBet into 10`000`000 (ten million) equal non-voting shares with a total equity value of 100 BTC (0.00001 BTC each). In the event of liquidation or breach of this Agreement they solemnly promise and warrant to repay all investors holding shares at this minimum value."
1438414;1458737386;punkman;what happens to "minimum value" if the liquidation nets less than 100 btc though?
1438415;1458737492;asciilifeform;punkman: they pay from own pockets?
1438416;1458737652;nubbins`;hmm davout are you really going to withhold bet payouts to bettors who were unlucky enough to receive free money from mp's personal funds
1438417;1458737655;nubbins`;or have i misread
1438418;1458737686;nubbins`;also, a thousand lels at the guy who suggested the double-paid bettors just return the funds
1438419;1458737691;nubbins`;!up solrodar
1438420;1458737706;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>punkman: they pay from own pockets? << that's my understanding too
1438421;1458737720;nubbins`;last sentence of quoted text says exactly this
1438422;1458737801;nubbins`;http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitbet-receiver-hired/#comment-49443 <<< such misspell, such misunderstand
1438423;1458737802;assbot;BitBet Receiver Hired | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1XMyKRD )
1438424;1458737819;nubbins`;"GPG signed contracts are no good if they can't be enforced." actually they've fulfilled their purpose precisely as intended here
1438425;1458738055;solrodar;nubbins`: it's logical to reduce payments to those addresses if and only if if davout decides MP's double payment can be charged to the company
1438426;1458738074;nubbins`;agreed
1438427;1458738094;nubbins`;will be interesting to see what decision is made
1438428;1458738887;nubbins`;http://imgur.com/a/q6MAP
1438429;1458738888;assbot;Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1T693w3 )
1438430;1458739220;PeterL;<nubbins`> hmm davout are you really going to withhold bet payouts to bettors who were unlucky enough to receive free money from mp's personal funds << so if person A used separate addresses for bets and person B used the same address on multiple bets, A gets more money and B gets less?
1438431;1458739261;nubbins`;correct
1438432;1458739271;nubbins`;iow, penalizing address reuse
1438433;1458739311;solrodar;both bettors have a moral obligation to return the money, it's just that one of them is identifiable and the other one isn't
1438434;1458739325;nubbins`;solrodar i don't think any such moral obligation exists.
1438435;1458739339;danielpbarron;solrodar, what moral obligation??
1438436;1458739349;nubbins`;solrodar see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0 for reference
1438437;1458739352;assbot;BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCqtie )
1438438;1458739361;nubbins`;tl;dr adults are responsible for the consequences of their actions
1438439;1458739389;nubbins`;whether their name is snackman or mircea_popescu
1438440;1458739423;solrodar;I doubt you'd believe that if you had lost a large sum of money by sending it to the wrong person by mistake
1438441;1458739494;nubbins`;my belief in the matter doesn't change the logic tho, hey?
1438442;1458739545;shinohai;!s 1 Kings 3:16-28
1438443;1458739546;assbot;0 results for '1 Kings 3:16-28' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=1+Kings+3%3A16-28
1438444;1458739618;shinohai;danielpbarron got to admit things were simpler in times when decisions involved swords.
1438445;1458739627;danielpbarron;1 Kings 3:16 Now two women who were harlots came to the king, and stood before him. 17 And one woman said, "O my lord, this woman and I dwell in the same house; and I gave birth while she was in the house. 18 Then it happened, the third day after I had given birth, that this woman also gave birth. And we were together; no one was with us in the house, except the two of us in the house. 19 And this woman's son died in the nig
1438446;1458739636;danielpbarron;22 Then the other woman said, "No! But the living one is my son, and the dead one is your son."
1438447;1458739663;danielpbarron;And the first woman said, "No! But the dead one is your son, and the living one is my son."
1438448;1458739680;danielpbarron;Thus they spoke before the king. 23 And the king said, "The one says, 'This is my son, who lives, and your son is the dead one'; and the other says, 'No! But your son is the dead one, and my son is the living one.'" 24 Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword before the king. 25 And the king said, "Divide the living child in two, and give half to one, and half to the other."
1438449;1458739761;danielpbarron;26 Then the woman whose son was living spoke to the king, for she yearned with compassion for her son; and she said, "O my lord, give her the living child, and by no means kill him!" But the other said, "Let him be neither mine nor yours, but divide him." 27 So the king answered and said, "Give the first woman the living child, and by no means kill him; she is his mother." 28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the ki
1438450;1458739798;PeterL;It does not matter who the true mother was, the one who wanted him to live was deemed a better mother
1438451;1458739821;PeterL;but what does this have to do with returning mistakenly gifted coins?
1438452;1458739828;solrodar;I was wondering the same thing
1438453;1458739858;solrodar;I'm sure I could find some law about unjust enrichment in the bible if I looked hard enough
1438454;1458739877;danielpbarron;please do (look hard)
1438455;1458739900;solrodar;no, because nobody here except you gives a crap what the bible says
1438456;1458739927;danielpbarron;you still haven't explained what's moral about returning the money
1438457;1458739999;solrodar;you try to pay your rent, but make a typo and send the money to me instead
1438458;1458740013;solrodar;should I send it back, minus a small fee for my inconvenience?
1438459;1458740031;danielpbarron;have you stolen anything?
1438460;1458740060;PeterL;I would call it charitable to return the money
1438461;1458740076;danielpbarron;if it's charitable to return then it isn't immoral to keep
1438462;1458740081;solrodar;I would call it Christian :P
1438463;1458740104;danielpbarron;you who doesn't believe the Bible are going to say what someone who beileves in the Bible should do?
1438464;1458740115;PeterL;lol
1438465;1458740120;solrodar;seriously, I think you should return it whether you believe in the bible or not
1438466;1458740157;punkman;#bible-assets
1438467;1458740165;danielpbarron;I was not the recipient of the double funds, but if I had been I would surely keep it
1438468;1458740175;PeterL;has mp asked people to return it?
1438469;1458740249;solrodar;my argument is that a mistaken payment may have changed possession of the money, but not ownership of it
1438470;1458740259;solrodar;since the sender never intended to transfer ownership to that person
1438471;1458740266;solrodar;but I know some people say this doesn't apply to bitcoin
1438472;1458740296;davout;pretty much everyone with a few neurons left actually
1438473;1458740329;solrodar;does it apply to anything?
1438474;1458740444;danielpbarron;there is no ownership in bitcoin, except that satoshi owns all of it
1438475;1458740459;danielpbarron;you know a private key, someone else might know that private key. neither owns it
1438476;1458740474;mircea_popescu;davout> https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5888 <<< guy has a point << lemme tell you a story. when i was a kid, i don't recall exactly, 5, 6, something, my mother was very sad over i have no idea what - being as i was too young to comprehend the emotions and problems of adults. but to cheer her up i decided to make her a dress! to which purpose i proceeded to cut off the shiny
1438477;1458740477;assbot;BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 2 weeks 13 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/22vqNHi )
1438478;1458740477;mircea_popescu;seal top off a bottle of Maltova and attach it to a piece of fabric with the loose sewing of a preschooler.
1438479;1458740525;mircea_popescu;so yes, i can appreciate the sentiment, infantile such as it is. guy means well, i'm sure. but in point of fact he is so far removed from relevancy in any conceivable approach to the issues, that there's really very little to be said.
1438480;1458740557;mircea_popescu;and speaking of this, most everyone involved^H^H^H^H^H^H inloved with bitcoin should insistently watch and rewatch malena, because it is EXACTLY the situation.
1438481;1458740574;mircea_popescu;yes, the prepubescent boy is in love ; but what's he going to do for the adult woman ? have her WAIT ?
1438482;1458740623;solrodar;danielpbarron: But you evidently apply the same principle to fiat bank accounts as well. Anything else? Your dog has just jumped in my window, is it my dog now?
1438483;1458740650;danielpbarron;where have I done that?
1438484;1458740658;solrodar;my above question re rent
1438485;1458740767;danielpbarron;i guess you don't own your fiats either; the fed does or something
1438486;1458741015;PeterL;solrodar if you sign a statement "I give my dog to danielpbarron", then yes it is his dog, and if you later say oops, I meant to give it to bob, then it is up to DPB to give the dog up, but he does not have to
1438487;1458741064;solrodar;and a bitcoin transaction is equivalent to such a signed statement?
1438488;1458741077;davout;solrodar: strictly
1438489;1458741092;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438364 << and you're going to ask the fellow to submit proof that he didn't... sell the address ? or etc ?
1438490;1458741092;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 09:34:25; davout: more generally, it seems an important thing to me that bettor claims should be adjusted by the existence of a a previous double-payout, if any
1438491;1458741095;PeterL;the bitcoin did not just move accidentally, bitcoin moves when somebody signs a statement "I own this bitcoin, I am sending it to address X"
1438492;1458741130;mircea_popescu;solrodar no, because while the dog might be your dog, bitcoin may not actually be your bitcoin.
1438493;1458741132;PeterL;that is the whole point of bitcoin, to definitively establish who owns it at all times!
1438494;1458741133;mircea_popescu;you may at most control some.
1438495;1458741153;PeterL;well, own, controll, whatever you want to call it
1438496;1458741156;mircea_popescu;but other than that - nobody has any title over any bitcoin nor could anyone acquire any title over any bitcoin.
1438497;1458741167;mircea_popescu;PeterL the difference happens to be rather important from a legal perspective.
1438498;1458741191;mircea_popescu;"you know, react, dissolve, whatever you wanna call it" sorta thing.
1438499;1458741289;solrodar;so we say mircea_popescu controlled a large quantity of bitcoin, and had agreed to consider a certain quantity of it the property of bitbet, but that concept of property does not go beyond any agreement which may have existed between him and bitbet?
1438500;1458741305;mircea_popescu;quite.
1438501;1458741319;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438489 <<< i'd argue the notion of "a fellow" is not relevant in this context on one hand, are you also seriously proposing that "selling a private key" is even possible?
1438502;1458741319;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 13:51:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438364 << and you're going to ask the fellow to submit proof that he didn't... sell the address ? or etc ?
1438503;1458741339;davout;the moment you sell a private key it ceases to be private, and therefore ceases to be a private key
1438504;1458741345;mircea_popescu;davout i am not proposing anything. you are proposing to introduce some assumptions, which seem ridiculous on the face, and are invited to support them.
1438505;1458741354;mircea_popescu;so ?
1438506;1458741397;mircea_popescu;fine, if you absolutely must : suppose owner made an agreement with a third party that the nth txn goes to x and the nth+1 goes to y. are they now bound to revise their agreements on the basis of how you may wish to liberally reinterpret the protocol ?
1438507;1458741403;mircea_popescu;this is the ESSENCE of powerrangering.
1438508;1458741456;mircea_popescu;it is also very visibly, and very risibly, reaction to bitcoin, which is to say a transparent attempt to exactly prevent specifically what bitcoin does,
1438509;1458741465;mircea_popescu;which is, seal things in the past in such a way they aren't revisable in the future.
1438510;1458741473;solrodar;mircea_popescu: aren't you the one that always argues that there are no people, only keys? In which case there's nothing wrong with recovering money from keys. If the key is controlled by multiple people, that's their problem.
1438511;1458741500;mircea_popescu;solrodar you may not make assumptions.
1438512;1458741514;mircea_popescu;certainly not after the fact.
1438513;1458741560;davout;mircea_popescu: you haven't provided any support for the notion of "a fellow" that you introduced, or did i miss it?
1438514;1458741607;mircea_popescu;you introduced it, really. but i restated the issue more formally and without reference to it.
1438515;1458741700;solrodar;if any obligation exists between bitbet and a bettor, the bettor is identified by his key and nothing more
1438516;1458741739;davout;mircea_popescu: i guess i did when i said 'bettor'
1438517;1458741740;mircea_popescu;if you are going to make other determinations than who won a bet, might as well put a 50% tax on the richest 10% or w/e the french fashion is these days.
1438518;1458741746;mircea_popescu;give more to the poor, they're worthier.
1438519;1458741775;davout;bettor's an address though, and claims are bound to addresses, not people, are they?
1438520;1458741815;mircea_popescu;this is an eery rehash of the earlier thing re "bitcoin is addresses / no it's txn" where jurov massacred me.
1438521;1458741824;mircea_popescu;funny how everything is in the fucking log. dja recall it davout ?
1438522;1458741859;davout;nah, plox to link
1438523;1458741867;davout;!s bitcoin is addresses
1438524;1458741868;assbot;24 results for 'bitcoin is addresses' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitcoin+is+addresses
1438525;1458741916;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2016#1361806 and prev.
1438526;1458741916;assbot;Logged on 07-01-2016 00:00:47; jurov: input is a reference to an output from a previous transaction. output is: a hash of a previous transaction + Index of the specific output in the referenced transaction.
1438527;1458741984;mircea_popescu;anyway, take it from a software design perspective. you are proposing to change the stateless parser (bet accepted) -> (bet resolved) -> (bet paid out) into a stateful and undefined (bet accepted) -> (bet resolved) -> (???) -> (some thing paid according to some rules you can't know)
1438528;1458741987;mircea_popescu;really ? nuts!
1438529;1458742081;mircea_popescu;and for that matter, are you going to pay out of pocket for the costs anyone and everyone incurs to adapt to this model, like nsa via gavin paid (to their own people) for their 2013 debacle ?
1438530;1458742335;solrodar;mircea_popescu: the bettors entered a contract with bitbet, then you, acting on bitbet's behalf, paid them too much by mistake. Even if there's no property in bitcoin, doesn't the existence of that contract allow you to introduce an argument of unjust enrichment?
1438531;1458742603;davout;mircea_popescu: epic convo :D
1438532;1458742744;nubbins`;<+solrodar>since the sender never intended to transfer ownership to that person <<< mp didn't intend to transfer ownership of the coins involved in a tx that he sent?
1438533;1458742836;mircea_popescu;solrodar there's no bitcoin precedent of "unjust enrichment", and if it is introduced it applies first of all to all miners.
1438534;1458742845;mircea_popescu;since when is block reward JUST enrichment ?
1438535;1458742885;mircea_popescu;much like the tmsr license, bitcoin is deliberately constructed a certain way to destroy fiat notions of this world, not to maintain them nor to permit their maintenance.
1438536;1458742894;PeterL;block reward is payment for work of processing block of transactions, seems justified to me
1438537;1458742980;mircea_popescu;that it seems justified to you may make a difference when you're king of the world and can promise me to appoint all judges forevermore to comply with your notions.
1438538;1458742989;mircea_popescu;until then - it's just another unbound promise.
1438539;1458743027;nubbins`;judges, lol
1438540;1458743031;mircea_popescu;promise here being a term of art standing in opposition with protocol.
1438541;1458743081;solrodar;if you reject all notions of justice then this entire liquidation thing becomes meaningless
1438542;1458743090;mircea_popescu;not so. it becomes meaningless to fiat twerps.
1438543;1458743107;mircea_popescu;it is perfectly meaningful in its own proper terms, which is why tmsr prevails over any pretend fiat sovereign :
1438544;1458743110;PeterL;If block reward is unjust, what is a just way of distributing coin? Or is that even possible?
1438545;1458743121;mircea_popescu;they're meaningful to us, if risible ; we're not meaningful nor can be rendered meaningful for them.
1438546;1458743145;mircea_popescu;PeterL what is the correct way of cheering your mother up with a tin of maltova and and a chunk of cloth ?
1438547;1458743182;PeterL;wtf?
1438548;1458743200;davout;mircea_popescu: that way does sound like a good way!
1438549;1458743201;mircea_popescu;see log.
1438550;1458743213;PeterL;saw log, still wtf?
1438551;1458743215;mircea_popescu;davout it worked, that time, but i wouldn't rely on it!
1438552;1458743230;mircea_popescu;PeterL do you find people are often able to help you when your problem is "wtf?" ?
1438553;1458743268;PeterL;not expecting help, just completely lost as to where your question connects to mine?
1438554;1458743289;mircea_popescu;fine, if you must : your question is not even a question in that it doesn't make any sense.
1438555;1458743289;davout;maltova and chunks of cloth not so much... desire to cheer others up, i'd say why not
1438556;1458743305;PeterL;more of an "I have no words" than a problem
1438557;1458743318;mircea_popescu;dun sweat it.
1438558;1458743346;mircea_popescu;davout hey, i can appreciate the sentiment. the equations, however, stay cold.
1438559;1458743395;solrodar;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438533 << there was no precedent for liquidation either, yet you had quite specific ideas about how it should be done
1438560;1458743395;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 14:20:36; mircea_popescu: solrodar there's no bitcoin precedent of "unjust enrichment", and if it is introduced it applies first of all to all miners.
1438561;1458743414;mircea_popescu;it is the actual threshold of maturity, when the agent comprehends that some things must be done because of themselves and irrespective of their will. usually this discovery came to young people who were in love - but society has meanwhile "progressed" past that.
1438562;1458743433;mircea_popescu;solrodar that is true.
1438563;1458743733;solrodar;didn't those ideas come from your sense of justice, equity or whatever you call it?
1438564;1458743829;mircea_popescu;lol k. what you're doing is roughly equivalent to coming into my house, attempting to give a name to one of my women and then proposing to exchange her for your own of the same name. ty but...
1438565;1458743855;mircea_popescu;let her stand nude, it's more becoming.
1438566;1458744047;solrodar;you know, a lot of your metaphors are stupid but that one almost reaches the level of a zen koan
1438567;1458744264;mircea_popescu;aw!
1438568;1458744267;*;solrodar goes to justly enrich himself
1438569;1458744280;mircea_popescu;it's not even a metaphor, it's a straight comparison.
1438570;1458744290;nubbins`;^
1438571;1458744599;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438381 << oya.
1438572;1458744599;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 12:03:12; BingoBoingo: Aha, I knew it would happen, but I didn't know it would happen this early. The reciever is now burdened with CHOICE.
1438573;1458744607;asciilifeform;HOLY FUCK
1438574;1458744611;asciilifeform;is mircea_popescu drinking on the job?!??!!
1438575;1458744614;mircea_popescu;hola alfie! what ?
1438576;1458744617;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438489 << SINCE WHEN CAN YOU SELL A PRIVATE KEY
1438577;1458744617;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 13:51:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438364 << and you're going to ask the fellow to submit proof that he didn't... sell the address ? or etc ?
1438578;1458744621;asciilifeform;you can't sell a private key!
1438579;1458744626;mircea_popescu;you can't.
1438580;1458744630;asciilifeform;you can only create a synthetic monster with split-personality syndrome!
1438581;1458744634;mircea_popescu;he can do whatever the fuck he pleases.
1438582;1458744635;asciilifeform;if you try to sell/share a key.
1438583;1458744635;mircea_popescu;aha! so ?
1438584;1458744643;asciilifeform;shared key is moral agent now ?!
1438585;1458744658;davout;the receiver was already burdened with choice, since he has to certify, or not, claims
1438586;1458744683;mircea_popescu;davout i'm sure you knew what you were getting into.
1438587;1458744700;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not the issue. the issue is, can you assume or can't you assume. and the result is you can't assume.
1438588;1458744701;davout;yeah absolutely
1438589;1458744727;asciilifeform;unless i misarithmetize catastrophically, davout is stuck with giving the bettors a haircut. question is ~which~. will there be 'communism', where they all bleed equally? or 'judgement day', when the scumbags bleed first.
1438590;1458744749;mircea_popescu;you got the parts switched tho!
1438591;1458744766;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ?
1438592;1458744780;mircea_popescu;will there be judgement day, when all there is is dark, or will there be "communism" aka "christianity" aka a hunchback god tries to create a world just like he's seen in his sane, healthy brother's hands ?
1438593;1458744815;mircea_popescu;(and if anyone's unfamiliar with the hunchback god, plox to take a break and read up on teh gnosis. it'll be good for you.)
1438594;1458744853;asciilifeform;i would like to smoke the necessary dope to see mircea_popescu's pov here, where the scum who got paid twice had the temerity to whine about delayed payouts while sitting on their unearned windfall, but then somehow deserve to be paid a THIRD TIME
1438595;1458744858;nubbins`;asciilifeform the 13.37 haircut is baked into the deal, i don't think any other haircuts are?
1438596;1458744865;asciilifeform;nubbins`: no
1438597;1458744867;mircea_popescu;deserve dun enter into i.
1438598;1458744868;mircea_popescu;it*
1438599;1458744911;mircea_popescu;and in the interest of not fucking up everyhing in one fell swoop of well meaning idiocy, "deserve"'d better not enter into it.
1438600;1458744914;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438506 << ok this is can sorta see
1438601;1458744914;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 13:56:37; mircea_popescu: fine, if you absolutely must : suppose owner made an agreement with a third party that the nth txn goes to x and the nth+1 goes to y. are they now bound to revise their agreements on the basis of how you may wish to liberally reinterpret the protocol ?
1438602;1458744936;*;asciilifeform sits back down on his stake
1438603;1458745008;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438515 << this is true though
1438604;1458745008;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 14:01:40; solrodar: if any obligation exists between bitbet and a bettor, the bettor is identified by his key and nothing more
1438605;1458745017;asciilifeform;there are no people in the universe other than the keys
1438606;1458745024;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform see, this is how professional life goes. you are paid well to sit in silence in a room and pick the right thread under a microscope ; i am paid even better to sit in the din of the market and pick the right thread with bare eyes.
1438607;1458745035;mircea_popescu;now tell me re deserve again.
1438608;1458745043;asciilifeform;and introducing 'what if there were some agreement re: n+1th etc' is the place where unwarranted assumptions are made
1438609;1458745053;mircea_popescu;and how is that ?
1438610;1458745054;asciilifeform;keys are people, people are keys.
1438611;1458745082;mircea_popescu;if this were the case one'd get one key issued with the ssn.
1438612;1458745099;nubbins`;SSNs aren't unique
1438613;1458745099;asciilifeform;if meatbags were abusing bitcoin by sharing a private key, they earned their hell.
1438614;1458745100;mircea_popescu;bitcoin addresses aren't acceptable proof of identity (such as for instance through that "signing" kludge) specifically for this reason.
1438615;1458745108;mircea_popescu;again - earned dun enter into it.
1438616;1458745109;asciilifeform;but rsa is ?
1438617;1458745118;mircea_popescu;conventionally, atm, it is.
1438618;1458745127;mircea_popescu;mostly because - not bitcoin.
1438619;1458745127;asciilifeform;from my perch, they suck ~equally.
1438620;1458745132;mircea_popescu;and so they do.
1438621;1458745146;mircea_popescu;man and woman also suck equally, one has the children the other doesn't.
1438622;1458745155;asciilifeform;this is an argument ?
1438623;1458745174;mircea_popescu;no, your "from my perch, they suck ~equally" is no argument, just color.
1438624;1458745196;mircea_popescu;things may suck equally, so what of it. MERIT STILL DUN ENTER INTO IT!
1438625;1458745196;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438527 << i can see this. but we got there already, are already inserted on that stake, regardless of what happens, because the bettors ~will~ get a haircut
1438626;1458745196;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 14:06:24; mircea_popescu: anyway, take it from a software design perspective. you are proposing to change the stateless parser (bet accepted) -> (bet resolved) -> (bet paid out) into a stateful and undefined (bet accepted) -> (bet resolved) -> (???) -> (some thing paid according to some rules you can't know)
1438627;1458745220;asciilifeform;they already will get a ??? --> something paid according to some rules they can't know
1438628;1458745228;asciilifeform;because the damn thing br0k3.
1438629;1458745254;mircea_popescu;there's something to this.
1438630;1458745257;asciilifeform;bbet is functioning in what we call in the civilized world 'нештатный режим'
1438631;1458745265;asciilifeform;like car with the wheels off.
1438632;1458745269;asciilifeform;or engine on fire.
1438633;1458745379;asciilifeform;the question is not 'whether bettors will be shafted' but ~with what kind of shaft'
1438634;1458745382;asciilifeform;~
1438635;1458745431;mircea_popescu;"the simplest"
1438636;1458745460;mircea_popescu;well, it is also possible bitbet sells well and makes the issue moot.
1438637;1458745494;asciilifeform;it is even possible that coin will fall from the sky into the right addr and make it moot...
1438638;1458745500;asciilifeform;like it fell upon the scum
1438639;1458745554;mircea_popescu;so it is. why so much haet anyway
1438640;1458745571;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438635 << one of the ways we get komyooonisms is that 'divide it all among the scum equally' is 'THE SIMPLEST' algo in the world.
1438641;1458745571;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 15:03:51; mircea_popescu: "the simplest"
1438642;1458745575;asciilifeform;abdicates all judgement.
1438643;1458745581;asciilifeform;mathematically - easiest. etc.
1438644;1458745617;mircea_popescu;can you elaborate on this communism identification, cuz i dun see it ?
1438645;1458745627;asciilifeform;pretending that unequals are equals.
1438646;1458745627;mircea_popescu;let's maybe start with, what is your definition of communism ?
1438647;1458745631;asciilifeform;see above.
1438648;1458745654;mircea_popescu;so really equalitarianism ? not, "from each according to his wallet, to each according to his needs" sorta thing ?
1438649;1458745661;asciilifeform;the bettors are ~not~ all identical in their misfortune.
1438650;1458745675;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: well these are connected, no ?
1438651;1458745728;mircea_popescu;im not sure!
1438652;1458745762;PeterL;connected only if you assume needs are equal, right?
1438653;1458745762;asciilifeform;they are separable in the strict sense where the thermodynamics has two phases
1438654;1458745771;asciilifeform;the dekulakization phase, and the steady state
1438655;1458745776;asciilifeform;(the latter, a mythical animal)
1438656;1458745802;*;asciilifeform momentarily stunned by mircea_popescu being confessedly unsure of something!1111
1438657;1458745811;mircea_popescu;i think this angle is interesting and should be pursued. so asciilifeform : do you suppose that the harem is intrinsically communist, if and in that the women are equals ?
1438658;1458745822;mircea_popescu;!s from:mircea not sure
1438659;1458745822;assbot;567 results for 'from:mircea not sure' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea+not+sure
1438660;1458745826;mircea_popescu;HATER
1438661;1458745831;asciilifeform;l0l!
1438662;1458745833;mircea_popescu;hehe
1438663;1458745861;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i do not rightfully have a firm enough grip on harem to answer.
1438664;1458745874;asciilifeform;i know more about the bacteria that live on the bottom of the sea.
1438665;1458745884;mircea_popescu;ok... let's see. hm.
1438666;1458745891;mircea_popescu;do you have two friends ?
1438667;1458745894;asciilifeform;sure.
1438668;1458745908;mircea_popescu;if you go eating together, is it communism if you go wherever you all agree to go ?
1438669;1458745923;asciilifeform;nah, that's just good ol'fashioned agreement.
1438670;1458745932;mircea_popescu;but you're unequals that pretend to equality ?
1438671;1458745943;mircea_popescu;in short, yes, i suspect your take on communism may actually require alienation outright.
1438672;1458745944;asciilifeform;for the evening.
1438673;1458745951;mircea_popescu;but it IS communism ?
1438674;1458745959;asciilifeform;if we seal ourselves in a cave and take turns eating own limbs, THEN - yes.
1438675;1458745967;mircea_popescu;so what's the threshold ?
1438676;1458746000;asciilifeform;what's the threshhold for jumping off cliff ? is it when you splat? when you're in freefall? when you stop the car? when brushing your teeth that morning, thinking 'cliff..' ???
1438677;1458746010;mircea_popescu;not a question without merit.
1438678;1458746013;asciilifeform;this is not a question having a useful answer though.
1438679;1458746022;mircea_popescu;so how are you going to be a lord ?
1438680;1458746023;asciilifeform;it is your mathematical 'pole' from 2 days ago
1438681;1458746030;asciilifeform;straddling the asymptote.
1438682;1458746060;asciilifeform;being a lord, as i see it, is not about balancing pencils on their points, but pushing the pencil in your CHOSEN direction and ~standing by~ the decision for the rest of your life.
1438683;1458746070;mircea_popescu;that's being a soldier.
1438684;1458746085;asciilifeform;is it so different ?
1438685;1458746086;mircea_popescu;a flattering view, in its innocent purity, but not how practice ever works that i've seen
1438686;1458746097;asciilifeform;i suppose i am then a soldier.
1438687;1458746107;mircea_popescu;well, it tends to become.
1438688;1458746119;mircea_popescu;so then how do you discern when another's crossed the pole, which practically speaking is an event horizon ?
1438689;1458746127;mircea_popescu;through prayer ?
1438690;1458746131;asciilifeform;in the end, only sure when you hear the splat.
1438691;1458746137;asciilifeform;but you PUSH the pencil.
1438692;1458746142;mircea_popescu;hm.
1438693;1458746149;asciilifeform;take a stand. it is one of the things i always appreciated about mircea_popescu !11
1438694;1458746153;asciilifeform;that he DID this.
1438695;1458746155;asciilifeform;many times.
1438696;1458746168;mircea_popescu;why thank you.
1438697;1458746180;asciilifeform;that's really what ~will is~.
1438698;1458746180;mircea_popescu;but the problem remains, i have nfi how to dispose of the communism charge in that place.
1438699;1458746207;asciilifeform;you do it by picking up the sword and saying 'eh no you buggers ain't equal'
1438700;1458746234;mircea_popescu;no, that's how you dispose of the MATTER once you disposed of the communism charge on the side of "yep, s oit is"
1438701;1458746239;asciilifeform;but it is not my place to tell mircea_popescu (or davout , who in this case is holding the scalpel ) exactly how.
1438702;1458746244;mircea_popescu;atm i can't see that it is and dunno how to completely argue it isn't.
1438703;1458746297;mircea_popescu;seems to me that if you have nine girls and one penis, fucking each ~weekly is not in any sense communism, but just as you say, good ol' agreement & conjugal peace.
1438704;1458746350;asciilifeform;note that sultan did not do this..
1438705;1458746362;mircea_popescu;so it is.
1438706;1458746378;mircea_popescu;but note that the sultan was an idiot.
1438707;1458746386;mircea_popescu;(and the mythical rashid that wasn't - did do this.)
1438708;1458746417;asciilifeform;again, this is far from my planet, i cannot rightfully propose to judge the sultan.
1438709;1458746443;mircea_popescu;is it communism if you have two hammers with slightly different utilities that you use indiferently ?
1438710;1458746461;asciilifeform;but the bettors who kept their windfall and then whined about being 'cheated', they are plainly scum and the wrath of ragnarok is theirs to be suffered ~first~ by any reasonable justice, imho.
1438711;1458746461;mircea_popescu;to put the matter bluntly : is it communism to round ?
1438712;1458746492;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform again - attempting to interpose yourself between the perceptibles and sophia is a very expensive and ultimately self destructive desire.
1438713;1458746502;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly.
1438714;1458746511;mircea_popescu;not that i know anyone not guilty of it, heck, it's my cardinal sin i'm discovering.
1438715;1458746565;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform would you say a man is a communist who goes to the casino every weekend and plays either blackjack or roulette as he feels like it that day, because really, the house edge is not the same ?
1438716;1458746614;asciilifeform;which is why i'm not envying davout his job.
1438717;1458746620;mircea_popescu;is the man who doesn't drive across town to buy milk a dime a gallon cheaper a communist ?
1438718;1458746637;trinque;I think this apt building is communist for having shut off my water today to fix some pipes elsewhere in the building.
1438719;1458746655;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc the christians called it 'sloth'
1438720;1458746667;asciilifeform;and every living thing is in its heart, on a bad day, 'communist'
1438721;1458746688;asciilifeform;see also the proverbial 'ты умри сегодня а я завтра'.
1438722;1458746741;mircea_popescu;but this is utter nonsense!
1438723;1458746774;asciilifeform;not the roulette, i mean
1438724;1458746776;mircea_popescu;remarkably, i had found this in the states, you know, people from the generation that "anti american activities", ie, still had a fighting bone in their body, WOULD engage in this patently insane behaviour.
1438725;1458746782;asciilifeform;the fundamental 'communist' act is to ~lean on the group~
1438726;1458746797;mircea_popescu;now that is very much how i conceive hte notion.
1438727;1458746802;asciilifeform;aha!
1438728;1458746830;mircea_popescu;which is how solrodar's slavegirl exchange ended up rebuffed. da fuck do i care to import some group bs.
1438729;1458746844;*;asciilifeform still grunting his way through log
1438730;1458746933;mircea_popescu;lol trinque
1438731;1458746954;mircea_popescu;truly, communism was built in the roman islae.
1438732;1458746991;asciilifeform;insulae?
1438733;1458746998;mircea_popescu;aha
1438734;1458747205;asciilifeform;the way i see it, and again i feel quite fortunate not to be stuck with the scalpel,
1438735;1458747216;asciilifeform;is that the folks who kept the coin LEANED-on-the-group.
1438736;1458747237;asciilifeform;at least after mircea_popescu made public the tx ids.
1438737;1458747264;mircea_popescu;you can't start coloring coins. seriously.
1438738;1458747268;mircea_popescu;it's anathema.
1438739;1458747281;asciilifeform;i was not the one who printed the tx...
1438740;1458747290;asciilifeform;and if there is a colour, i point to it.
1438741;1458747297;asciilifeform;why should i live in a fictional universe of oughts.
1438742;1458747302;asciilifeform;when there is a colour - there is one.
1438743;1458747305;mircea_popescu;if you're going to drop the bitcoin scalar in favour of a bitcoin-justice vector, there is really no fucking point to even bother, just visa.
1438744;1458747325;asciilifeform;when there is a fella with a scalpel, you ~already~ made a small visa.
1438745;1458747332;asciilifeform;that is why there is no happy ending to this tale.
1438746;1458747339;mircea_popescu;his scalpel is to cut in the corporation, not in the fucking world.
1438747;1458747352;mircea_popescu;what if i come to the kitchen one morning and discover girl cooking burned... the color blue.
1438748;1458747359;mircea_popescu;everwhere, permanently. wtf.
1438749;1458747432;mircea_popescu;the cold truth of the matter being, of course, that bitcoin's an imponerable that obviously can't be cut. but when you, the sleeping butterfly that dreams himself lao tzi, in your dream believe to have cut into it,
1438750;1458747450;mircea_popescu;the result is that your dream diverges from reality by that much, and it's not clear breaches OF THAT NATURE can ever be healed.
1438751;1458747457;mircea_popescu;short of direct divine intervention or somesuch.
1438752;1458747467;asciilifeform;but it will cut how it wants, and it not mathematically deterministic/predictable, and will answer to no one.
1438753;1458747484;asciilifeform;the tragedy was precisely in the circumstances which produced the scalpel hand. not in who will be cut, that is secondary.
1438754;1458747489;mircea_popescu;say that again with less it s
1438755;1458747500;asciilifeform;my terminal is bodged, 1sec
1438756;1458747503;mircea_popescu;no rush
1438757;1458747564;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438750 << they are healed the way the demolition of newtonian mechanics was 'healed'
1438758;1458747564;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 15:37:30; mircea_popescu: the result is that your dream diverges from reality by that much, and it's not clear breaches OF THAT NATURE can ever be healed.
1438759;1458747571;asciilifeform;which is to say, we find ways to live with the wound
1438760;1458747595;mircea_popescu;that wasn't a wound, it was on the contrary, the closing of a gap
1438761;1458747603;mircea_popescu;"healing" that is easy enough to do.
1438762;1458747653;asciilifeform;closing at the cost of tearing a new (qm / gr) gash
1438763;1458747670;asciilifeform;but i digress.
1438764;1458747747;asciilifeform;and i'm not even sure we have a cataclysm here
1438765;1458747753;asciilifeform;let's do a gedankenexperiment
1438766;1458747768;asciilifeform;say i owe mircea_popescu 100 btc
1438767;1458747772;asciilifeform;(sold my organz!111)
1438768;1458747781;asciilifeform;to be delivered by next tuesday.
1438769;1458747782;mircea_popescu;aite
1438770;1458747799;asciilifeform;tomorrow i trip over a cable, fall on a button, accidentally fire pistol, the bullet hits another button, sends him 90 btc.
1438771;1458747810;asciilifeform;how much do i owe him on next tuesday ?
1438772;1458747820;mircea_popescu;10.
1438773;1458747826;asciilifeform;aha!
1438774;1458747833;asciilifeform;so ditto bbet creditors ??
1438775;1458747842;mircea_popescu;how so ?
1438776;1458747845;asciilifeform;or what am i missing.
1438777;1458747877;mircea_popescu;you are missing this :
1438778;1458747926;mircea_popescu;mp is out of money and now running a lemonade stand. you take a menu one day strolling by, and on this menu it says : lemonade, 10 bitcents, address 1lemonade ; fucking with a hammer, 12 bitcents, adress 1fuckinghammer.
1438779;1458747944;mircea_popescu;you pistolaccident 60 bitcents to 1fuckinghammer, show up at lemonade stand "i would like a lemonade"
1438780;1458747949;mircea_popescu;you're getting fucked with a hammer
1438781;1458747950;mircea_popescu;five times.
1438782;1458747959;trinque;!b 4
1438783;1458747960;assbot;Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2EFAKJC.txt )
1438784;1458747962;asciilifeform;fair!
1438785;1458747966;mircea_popescu;so then.
1438786;1458748055;mircea_popescu;anything else is "screw your bitcoin - dwim, chcte!"
1438787;1458748067;mircea_popescu;which is, if nothing else, prohibitively expensive.
1438788;1458748135;asciilifeform;i however see the notion of not fucking-with-a-hammer those malodorous thieving swine who silently kept the windfall and LEANED ON THE GROUP, as ultimately very expensive.
1438789;1458748162;mircea_popescu;power is not given you to finally get even with those you fucking hate.
1438790;1458748170;mircea_popescu;i am deeply sorry to disappoint,
1438791;1458748184;asciilifeform;well not to me obviously.
1438792;1458748189;mircea_popescu;heh. you see ?
1438793;1458748199;asciilifeform;but the fella with the scalpel is stuck cutting somebody.
1438794;1458748217;asciilifeform;my place was merely to suggest ~whom~. which is done.
1438795;1458748244;asciilifeform;i recommend - the communists.
1438796;1458748280;mircea_popescu;i recommend blindness, because i fucking well aren't going to be supplying all the candles now required or in the future needed to look in all possible or conceivable dark crevices ; nor do i see who ever could.
1438797;1458748291;asciilifeform;i can see this.
1438798;1458748305;asciilifeform;solomon - agreed.
1438799;1458748356;mircea_popescu;and no - it moterfucking IS NOT "our obligation to try anyway, mp, try, try".
1438800;1458748361;mircea_popescu;fucking welfarism blergh.
1438801;1458748375;asciilifeform;i also did not say 'obligation' now did i.
1438802;1458748384;mircea_popescu;fuck or get off the bitch, this trying is giving me hypertension.
1438803;1458748389;mircea_popescu;well no, you didn't say.
1438804;1458748399;mircea_popescu;you know the samovar joke ?
1438805;1458748409;asciilifeform;hm?
1438806;1458748425;mircea_popescu;!s from:mircea samovar joke
1438807;1458748426;assbot;1 results for 'from:mircea samovar joke' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea+samovar+joke
1438808;1458748429;mircea_popescu;ha!
1438809;1458748480;mircea_popescu;bum of the town falls asleep drunk on railroad. steam engine comes and thrashes him thoroughly.
1438810;1458748492;mircea_popescu;sometime later, bleeding heart rich old lady invites bum over for tea
1438811;1458748503;mircea_popescu;samovar is brought in steaming in all its samovarish glory.
1438812;1458748514;mircea_popescu;bum jumps up, throws the thing to the ground, stomps it into a flat sheet
1438813;1458748519;mircea_popescu;"what got into you!!1"
1438814;1458748526;mircea_popescu;"these things - you gotta kill them young."
1438815;1458748586;asciilifeform;l0l!
1438816;1458748587;davout;kek
1438817;1458748633;davout;btw, is mircea_popescu in a position to transfer the bitbet.us domain?
1438818;1458748682;davout;because as far as the whois is concerned, the domain contact is... chetty
1438819;1458748949;asciilifeform;briefly back to mega-thread, i ~very much see the appeal~ of mircea_popescu's 'cold equations, motherfuckers!' angle.
1438820;1458748969;asciilifeform;but afaik we like cold equations because they are SOLID and PREDICTABLE, not because cold.
1438821;1458748978;asciilifeform;and our 'equations' have already warmed over, in this case.
1438822;1458748980;asciilifeform;like warm beer.
1438823;1458748996;mircea_popescu;no, we like them specifically because cold.
1438824;1458749001;mircea_popescu;we got the women for heat, makes a fine engine.
1438825;1458749051;mircea_popescu;cup a cunt in the left, pick some ~actual numbers~ in the right, watch your eyebrows spin.
1438826;1458749098;asciilifeform;what i meant was, whatever the bettors end up getting, will be an output of human caprice.
1438827;1458749100;mircea_popescu;davout darn, it is ? ima dig into it.
1438828;1458749101;asciilifeform;not hard numberz.
1438829;1458749109;mircea_popescu;you got a namecheap acct it can be pushed to ?
1438830;1458749146;davout;mircea_popescu: i can make one
1438831;1458749153;mircea_popescu;be so kind thx
1438832;1458749161;davout;so it won't be an issue will it?
1438833;1458749223;mircea_popescu;confirmed, i have it here.
1438834;1458749349;mircea_popescu;poor chetty.
1438835;1458749367;davout;:(
1438836;1458749386;mircea_popescu;lemme know where to push it.
1438837;1458749411;davout;i will
1438838;1458749792;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438393 << ftr i'm not too sold on this sort of argument. if only the bullet hadn't hit your beloved franz ... then what ? wouldn't have been a war ? he wouldn't have been a man, or a soldier ?
1438839;1458749792;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 12:29:04; asciilifeform: and yes, they had no obligation to send it back, etc. but if they had, there would be no reactor fire, and a still-operating bbet. that isn't about to be auctioned off to spammerz.
1438840;1458749794;mircea_popescu;vorbe de claca.
1438841;1458749895;asciilifeform;then reactor fire next week !111
1438842;1458749902;asciilifeform;but not this.
1438843;1458749925;mircea_popescu;i thought the consensus was this reactor should have fired a year ago or w/e.
1438844;1458749928;asciilifeform;but anyway if it were my job to describe parallel universes, i'd put up a shingle!111
1438845;1458749937;mircea_popescu;aha.
1438846;1458749987;asciilifeform;in other lulz, i was looking at 'google map' near $rupturefarm, and found a 'metaphysical chapel.'
1438847;1458749993;asciilifeform;maybe there they do parallel universes!11
1438848;1458750006;mircea_popescu;go, ask ?
1438849;1458750042;asciilifeform;one of these days!
1438850;1458750064;asciilifeform;first i might eat at the 'cafe saigon'
1438851;1458750071;asciilifeform;(can i eat while hanging off a chopper skid ??)
1438852;1458750314;mircea_popescu;lol
1438853;1458750325;mircea_popescu;or at least while the very earnest eastern whores of the 50s
1438854;1458750402;asciilifeform;aha!
1438855;1458750813;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> in other lulz, i was looking at 'google map' near $rupturefarm, and found a 'metaphysical chapel.' << I'll have you know I took 500 level metaphysical classes in University
1438856;1458751802;BingoBoingo;!up mrottenkolber
1438857;1458751821;mrottenkolber;BingoBoingo: What's up?
1438858;1458751838;BingoBoingo;mrottenkolber: Oh, the usual
1438859;1458752073;BingoBoingo;To discover what the usual is you have to go to the logs, but not before the end of October, because around that time the usual changed
1438860;1458753419;thestringpuller;asciilifeform: soul brew eh?
1438861;1458753654;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it did ?
1438862;1458753710;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Well the stop drinking thing was a rather substantive change in the usual. I think reduced the N in my SNR, but I'm not entirely sure.
1438863;1458753727;mircea_popescu;ah ah, you were talking abot yerself! i c.
1438864;1458753971;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438364 << madness, madness!
1438865;1458753971;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 09:34:25; davout: more generally, it seems an important thing to me that bettor claims should be adjusted by the existence of a a previous double-payout, if any
1438866;1458754022;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes go through the log, it's argued.
1438867;1458754044;ben_vulpes;mhm.
1438868;1458754131;ben_vulpes;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438613 << on the n+1 thread, consider also the broker, asciilifeform.
1438869;1458754131;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 14:58:19; asciilifeform: if meatbags were abusing bitcoin by sharing a private key, they earned their hell.
1438870;1458754552;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: broker?
1438871;1458754862;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: folks who share privkeys create schizo synthetic monsters, a la gox, and are hostis humani generis.
1438872;1458754881;davout;ben_vulpes: do elaborate
1438873;1458755268;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: a broker'd not have to share keys with anyone.
1438874;1458755678;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: how do brokers enter into anything ?
1438875;1458755681;asciilifeform;explain plox.
1438876;1458755913;asciilifeform;whatever repayment obligation bbet has to anyone at all, it was and remains to ADDRESSES, not to 'people', 'persons', or whatever other old world claptrap
1438877;1458755928;asciilifeform;privkeys == people, for any sane purpose.
1438878;1458755948;asciilifeform;and given that the only signatures establishing the obligation were btc tx-en, that is to whom it owed.
1438879;1458755955;asciilifeform;i can't see any hole in this wall.
1438880;1458755986;kakobrekla;from the first paragraph of the bb faq: The beneficiary address is never changed under any circumstances. Please make sure you own it!
1438881;1458755996;asciilifeform;aha!!
1438882;1458756014;asciilifeform;ergo btc privkeys ARE the playing characters in the game
1438883;1458756020;asciilifeform;the only moral entities for whatever purpose.
1438884;1458756055;asciilifeform;and to try to infer or posit people or whatnot 'behind' the keys, is to introduce chess pieces to a card game
1438885;1458756082;ben_vulpes;sure.
1438886;1458756126;asciilifeform;so what then does ben_vulpes give as argument re why the double-send should not count against the obligations remaining ?
1438887;1458756140;ben_vulpes;kakobrekla: nowhere in there does it say "if we overpay and can identify the people to whom we overpaid, we'll clawback funds from those addresses."
1438888;1458756157;asciilifeform;not 'claw back'
1438889;1458756163;asciilifeform;but declare obligation settled.
1438890;1458756165;asciilifeform;which it IS.
1438891;1458756169;asciilifeform;by that amount.
1438892;1458756186;asciilifeform;they were PAID.
1438893;1458756190;ben_vulpes;eerily reminiscient of the commerce clause. "in addition to these explicit terms in our favor, we may decide in the future to do other things."
1438894;1458756203;ben_vulpes;so was my ticket to con3, by mthreat.
1438895;1458756205;asciilifeform;e.g., go broke an' into receivership.
1438896;1458756214;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu issued a receipt and all
1438897;1458756227;kakobrekla;ben_vulpes see under 'misc' http://trilema.com/2015/bitbet-sbbet-february-2015-statement/ and http://trilema.com/2015/bitbet-sbbet-march-2015-statement/
1438898;1458756228;assbot;BitBet (S.BBET) February 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S6Dcqa )
1438899;1458756229;assbot;BitBet (S.BBET) March 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S6Da1s )
1438900;1458756282;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: see thread. bbet is already doing many 'other things', from which there is no escape.
1438901;1458756408;asciilifeform;whether or not you credit the chinese miners, the sybil net, or the devil, whoever,
1438902;1458756429;asciilifeform;i can't see how the scumbags who pocketed the doublespend and then whined about bet payout delay, are not accomplices in the murder of bbet.
1438903;1458756480;kakobrekla;nah
1438904;1458756527;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: why not ?
1438905;1458756528;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: now credits the howling monkeys outside of the wot with accomplishing things?
1438906;1458756538;kakobrekla;if mp would rm -rf private keys, his linux distro would be the murderer?
1438907;1458756549;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: monkeys accomplish plenty. just not anything you would want.
1438908;1458756561;asciilifeform;e.g., tearing apart jungle temple, burying the remains - in shit, banana peels.
1438909;1458756565;ben_vulpes;moreover how does one know that any commenter on bitbet is a bettor? are they 'signing' things with the appropriate privkeys now?
1438910;1458756578;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you neither know, nor need to.
1438911;1458756584;asciilifeform;the obligation was to the ADDRESSES.
1438912;1458756594;asciilifeform;they betted by transmitting a tx.
1438913;1458756621;asciilifeform;the beneficiary addr and the bet amount are literally the ~only~ things we know for certain about them.
1438914;1458756635;asciilifeform;the comments - could all be fictions, yes.
1438915;1458756683;asciilifeform;but if any of them had seen it fit to return so much as one satoshi of the doublesend - i assume mircea_popescu, kakobrekla, or davout would have mentioned.
1438916;1458756686;asciilifeform;(i could be wrong)
1438917;1458756733;kakobrekla;i havent noticed anything that would point to that
1438918;1458756778;asciilifeform;mega-unsurprise.
1438919;1458756793;kakobrekla;anyway, care to poke a hole in the rm -rf case?
1438920;1458756799;asciilifeform;yes.
1438921;1458756813;asciilifeform;these are supposed to be ~people~
1438922;1458756827;kakobrekla;i thought they were just addresses
1438923;1458756838;asciilifeform;well yes.
1438924;1458756860;asciilifeform;if we can have them be just addresses, the obligation was to ADDRESSES and is SATISFIED
1438925;1458756872;asciilifeform;because they were paid. just slightly earlier than ought to have been.
1438926;1458756880;asciilifeform;and partially.
1438927;1458756908;asciilifeform;whereas if we paint them as 'people,' they then had a ~choice~ re: what to do with the coin.
1438928;1458756924;asciilifeform;you can't be a 'people' when you feel like it, and then a 'mechanism' when it suits you.
1438929;1458756947;kakobrekla;the prepayment is separate issue here
1438930;1458757023;asciilifeform;say i owe mircea_popescu 100 btc.
1438931;1458757031;asciilifeform;and i have a vorpal sword, worth 150
1438932;1458757038;asciilifeform;i forget it on a park bench. he finds it.
1438933;1458757048;asciilifeform;i ask 'gimme back me sword, mircea_popescu '
1438934;1458757090;kakobrekla;the fuck up is in the forgetting it on the bench.
1438935;1458757093;asciilifeform;he might. but only after i pay the 100.
1438936;1458757132;PeterL;<asciilifeform> but if any of them had seen it fit to return so much as one satoshi of the doublesend - i assume mircea_popescu, kakobrekla, or davout would have mentioned. << If I did want to return part of doublespend, where would I send it and be sure MP does not just pocket it?
1438937;1458757169;asciilifeform;PeterL: read any bbet statement, you will find 'gracious donations'
1438938;1458757182;asciilifeform;PeterL: so you know EXACTLY how to put coin in bbet pocket, it was never a secret.
1438939;1458757206;asciilifeform;not to mention that ~any~ btc can be sent back to originator addr!!
1438940;1458757249;asciilifeform;note that i am not arguing that this is a moral obligation
1438941;1458757251;kakobrekla;the originator would not necessarily show up in donations and not sure if anyone would notice.
1438942;1458757254;asciilifeform;merely that it counts against your debt.
1438943;1458757260;asciilifeform;by any sane reckoning.
1438944;1458757270;nubbins`;bbet and mp are separate parties
1438945;1458757277;nubbins`;despite mp's insistence to the contrary.
1438946;1458757291;nubbins`;this is the crux of why alf's wrong here
1438947;1458757300;PeterL;but if I return this doublespend, is it still going to be taken out of my other bets the site is holding?
1438948;1458757318;asciilifeform;nubbins`: your contention is that it was impossible for the windfall recipients to return it ?
1438949;1458757334;nubbins`;asciilifeform please indicate where i contended such
1438950;1458757349;asciilifeform;nubbins`: the separate-entities thing
1438951;1458757359;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438921 < or to put it in another way 'bitcoin is an inanimate fucking object'
1438952;1458757359;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 18:13:33; asciilifeform: these are supposed to be ~people~
1438953;1458757374;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: aha! so treat the obligation as to the inanimate object: the ADDRESS.
1438954;1458757385;kakobrekla;asciilifeform i agree with that.
1438955;1458757385;nubbins`;asciilifeform not impossible, no. the windfall recipients know who owned each parcel of funds
1438956;1458757394;asciilifeform;address was owed B btc at time T if condition C.
1438957;1458757414;asciilifeform;it was given B - e at time T - q. Now, condition C.
1438958;1458757416;nubbins`;asciilifeform let's say i'm owed 10 btc by you.
1438959;1458757424;asciilifeform;so it is owed e.
1438960;1458757426;nubbins`;kako gives me 10 btc and says "alf's debt is settled"
1438961;1458757431;kakobrekla;asciilifeform but that also makes it clear who is to blame for bbet shutdown. and not its not the bettors who got two payments.
1438962;1458757433;nubbins`;i say "no it is not"
1438963;1458757456;nubbins`;i'm not responsible for de-spaghettifying things external to my transactions
1438964;1458757467;asciilifeform;nubbins`: except that it is not external.
1438965;1458757477;nubbins`;hence why in all the stock warrants it says specifically that the entity will not administer blah blah between third parties
1438966;1458757487;nubbins`;asciilifeform so now you're saying that bbet=mp?
1438967;1458757504;asciilifeform;what i'm saying is that obligation was from bbet-addr to bettor-addr.
1438968;1458757510;nubbins`;yep
1438969;1458757514;nubbins`;and funds came frOM
1438970;1458757516;asciilifeform;and not from imaginary animals sitting at the controls.
1438971;1458757517;nubbins`;mp-addr
1438972;1458757530;nubbins`;then, later, bbet-addr.
1438973;1458757542;asciilifeform;nubbins`: i see what you did there.
1438974;1458757558;nubbins`;back to my example: you owe me $10, kako pays me $10, and now he claims you owe HIM $10.
1438975;1458757561;nubbins`;reasonable? no?
1438976;1458757580;PeterL;sounds like ripple
1438977;1458757593;nubbins`;QED.
1438978;1458757626;asciilifeform;nubbins`: both payments were quite clearly 'from bbet' tho.
1438979;1458757634;nubbins`;asciilifeform i disagree...?
1438980;1458757639;asciilifeform;from the perspective of the recipients
1438981;1458757645;nubbins`;er, no.
1438982;1458757646;asciilifeform;say they had received only ONE of them.
1438983;1458757648;asciilifeform;either one.
1438984;1458757654;nubbins`;you claim to see from the perspective of others now?
1438985;1458757654;asciilifeform;they would consider themselves fairly repaid ?
1438986;1458757655;asciilifeform;or not ?
1438987;1458757665;nubbins`;but that's not what happened.
1438988;1458757672;nubbins`;you can't analogize what happened to what didn't happen
1438989;1458757672;asciilifeform;tell me that they would not, then you will have an argument
1438990;1458757675;kakobrekla;i find the distinction quite irrelevant
1438991;1458757746;nubbins`;asciilifeform if bbet = mp, why'd you put 'from bbet' in quotes?
1438992;1458757754;asciilifeform;if either ALONE would have satisfied the creditors, they were then idempotent !
1438993;1458757765;asciilifeform;ergo both 'from bbet' for any conceivable purpose.
1438994;1458757779;nubbins`;no.
1438995;1458757802;asciilifeform;and i have yet to read of a bbet user who wrote in, 'fuck you! i got my 22.222 btc but i can't be sure from whom and for what! pay up!'
1438996;1458757808;nubbins`;this is not how idempotence works
1438997;1458757828;nubbins`;i'm not gonna argue basic logic. i give up
1438998;1458757934;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you can safely skip the preceding thread, it is a nubsism
1438999;1458757978;nubbins`;lol, fuck you.
1439000;1458757979;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: though oddly enough he was arguing your side of the medal !
1439001;1458757983;jurov;"assign credit/debt to addresses" is kinda slippery slope, why not go beyond it and try to analyze and put together addresses in wallets and assign credit/debt to these?
1439002;1458757987;nubbins`;"nubsism".
1439003;1458757997;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what am i to do, half the folks i talk to killfiled other half
1439004;1458758012;nubbins`;what you're to do is stop willfully being illogical
1439005;1458758020;nubbins`;but apparently that's off the table
1439006;1458758026;nubbins`;so, like i said: i give up.
1439007;1458758039;nubbins`;this is obivously not a place where reason and logic have any place
1439008;1458758046;PeterL;nubbins` what if MP was travelling when bet resolves, pays somebody to send txn to bet winners, do those payments not count because they don't come directly from bbet wallet?
1439009;1458758067;nubbins`;PeterL why, did that happen?
1439010;1458758083;PeterL;just hypothetical trying to understand your position
1439011;1458758101;nubbins`;no longer interested in explaining it
1439012;1458758102;jurov;asciilifeform: really, since bitcoin makes whole wallets analyzable, why not apply the blame to whole wallet? moar justice!!!
1439013;1458758129;PeterL;bitcoin is fungible, it does not matter to the recipient where it came from
1439014;1458758154;nubbins`;agreed
1439015;1458758159;asciilifeform;jurov: this is a leap into neverneverland. but operating using the ORIGINAL premise of bbet, where coin is owed to ADDRESS, is not.
1439016;1458758188;asciilifeform;address - was paid! it was promised 'being paid', not 'be paid with metadata such-and-such'
1439017;1458758194;asciilifeform;i don't recall any metadata.
1439018;1458758200;asciilifeform;having been promised.
1439019;1458758215;nubbins`;irrelephant
1439020;1458758231;nubbins`;it was promised to be paid and it was paid
1439021;1458758233;nubbins`;so what?
1439022;1458758260;asciilifeform;if i promise that you will be 100btc richer tomorrow, and i choose to pay you by dropping it from an airplane into your chimney, so long as no one else contests that it was i who dropped - the debt is paid.
1439023;1458758270;nubbins`;agreed.
1439024;1458758278;nubbins`;if kako then drops another 100btc down my chimney
1439025;1458758281;nubbins`;he can bill it to you
1439026;1458758283;nubbins`;right?
1439027;1458758294;asciilifeform;nubbins`: no, because i had no commerce with him.
1439028;1458758301;nubbins`;exactly.
1439029;1458758318;nubbins`;which brings us back to your assertion that bbet=mp and my assertion that bbet!=mp
1439030;1458758325;nubbins`;which is why we're talking past each other
1439031;1458758327;asciilifeform;nubbins`: BUT if i owed you 100, and he dropped 100, and i say 'i paid', and kakobrekla does not contest this claim - you've been paid.
1439032;1458758331;nubbins`;you believe the two entities to be one
1439033;1458758333;nubbins`;i do not.
1439034;1458758349;nubbins`;asciilifeform lol. no.
1439035;1458758360;nubbins`;you don't get to claim a third party handing me cash as your own payment.
1439036;1458758365;nubbins`;wtf?
1439037;1458758372;asciilifeform;nubbins`: then irreconcilably different premises, aha, and i have no moar wordz.
1439038;1458758378;nubbins`;:D
1439039;1458758411;nubbins`;"buying debt" is fiat bullshit
1439040;1458758429;PeterL;has anybody added up how much the doublepsent addresses have left deposited in bbet?
1439041;1458758436;asciilifeform;;;later tell pete_dushenski any idea what talmud says about all this ?
1439042;1458758437;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1439043;1458758468;asciilifeform;PeterL: iirc it is in the lee sedol comments.
1439044;1458758539;nubbins`;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5qmjNe7RVE
1439045;1458758542;assbot;SLEEP live at Hellfest 2013 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MmlUJc )
1439046;1458758547;kakobrekla;im not even sure what is being argued here but i feel it might relevant that proof of payment on bbet was always ambiguous - there was no explicit thing showing the payment - the most explicit was the lack of complaints
1439047;1458758560;trinque;corporate personhood is also fiat bullshit
1439048;1458758561;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: so it WAS 'you will be XXX btc richer', wasnit.
1439049;1458758565;trinque;which turd stinks moar?
1439050;1458758593;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: this answers, i think, my question of 'what exactly was it that bbet promised winners'
1439051;1458758604;asciilifeform;so it was NOT 'ccc coin from addr aaa at time t'
1439052;1458758618;asciilifeform;it was rather 'ccc coin to addr specified at bet time, at time t'
1439053;1458758646;asciilifeform;t - was specified. and this condition was, yes, broken
1439054;1458758661;asciilifeform;but it was broken routinely long before!
1439055;1458758668;asciilifeform;every time payouts were delayed.
1439056;1458758688;asciilifeform;so this time it was broken by paying them ccc - e coin at time t - t', ahead of schedule.
1439057;1458758699;PeterL;I think the delay by bitcoin network was assumed to be okay
1439058;1458758704;kakobrekla;asciilifeform yes, after the last fuck up i have added a way to specify the resulting tx when bet is resolved and payment is done so we wouldnt be doing two payments for one bet any more (because this obviously doesnt work!!)
1439059;1458758721;kakobrekla;however this was not used - yet
1439060;1458758724;nubbins`;asciilifeform so why didn't bbet monitor payout addresses, and cancel any payments to wallets which received funds from any source after bet resolution?
1439061;1458758747;nubbins`;seems like a major lost opportunity.
1439062;1458758763;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you are painting uncertainty where none existed.
1439063;1458758773;nubbins`;no u, etc.
1439064;1458758781;asciilifeform;nubbins`: both tx were for ~every~ purpose, from bbet, to bettors.
1439065;1458758794;asciilifeform;nubbins`: and not 'from mysterymeat to mysterymeat'
1439066;1458758837;nubbins`;then you're back to straight-up incompetence, releasing two separate-input tx's into the wild for the same bill.
1439067;1458758841;nubbins`;fair enough
1439068;1458758849;*;nubbins` wanders away
1439069;1458758857;davout;jurov: X is a slippery slope isn't a valid argument for anything
1439070;1458758876;trinque;this conversation is well downstream from the much more important question of *whose decision it about what a business they own does*
1439071;1458758883;asciilifeform;davout: esp if the slope is not the least bit slippery, much as some folks might like to pour soap on it
1439072;1458758902;trinque;if an owner of a business decides that address Y is now the payout address for something instead of X, fuck you, it is.
1439073;1458758914;nubbins`;trinque one of the owners decided this, yeah...
1439074;1458758915;trinque;and if that causes a dispute among the board of said company, well, here we are.
1439075;1458758919;nubbins`;heh
1439076;1458758919;trinque;nubbins`: and you're not one of them
1439077;1458758921;asciilifeform;trinque: seems like the bettors were ~never~ promised payouts ~from particular addr~
1439078;1458758927;asciilifeform;trinque: but simply ~payout~
1439079;1458758934;trinque;the fuck is this committee action
1439080;1458758943;nubbins`;trinque your argument is: the public doesn't get to lambast those who do poor business?
1439081;1458758948;trinque;lets make a congress to pass some laws so this never happens again
1439082;1458758951;nubbins`;i'm only flapping my jaw here.
1439083;1458758955;trinque;sure, flap
1439084;1458758956;nubbins`;you guys are the ones taking me seriously or not
1439085;1458758965;nubbins`;i'm under no illusions that what i say is binding on anyone
1439086;1458758968;nubbins`;make no mistake
1439087;1458758978;nubbins`;i'm juuuuuust offering opinion.
1439088;1458758999;asciilifeform;trinque: i have no standing whatsoever re bbet. but the matter is in the forum, fwiw. so we comment.
1439089;1458759016;nubbins`;^
1439090;1458759037;nubbins`;i've never seen such vehement opposition to simple discussion of factual events as i've seen in here the past few weeks
1439091;1458759065;PeterL;are you sure?
1439092;1458759087;nubbins`;no, i have a terrible memory, it borders on pathology
1439093;1458759089;trinque;all of it smacks of us being a part of some aggregate whose opinion matters in the private dealings of those present.
1439094;1458759103;trinque;I am not.
1439095;1458759133;nubbins`;fwiw all the dealings are public
1439096;1458759144;PeterL;this "vehement opposition" is weak sauce when compared to partisan politic disciples
1439097;1458759175;trinque;trinque │ sure, flap
1439098;1458759178;nubbins`;agreed, which is why idgaf about it beyond marvelling at its irony
1439099;1458759199;asciilifeform;trinque: it is called a forum.
1439100;1458759202;asciilifeform;trinque: and ultimately davout has the scalpel now. but i can still ~say~ to him, 'hey listen up the liver is ~that~ way'
1439101;1458759206;asciilifeform;trinque: he can agree, or not.
1439102;1458759211;davout;asciilifeform: i think the matter becomes mucho clearer if you ask yourself "did bbet pay twice or did bbet pay once with mp coming along later for a gracious donation to the same recipients"
1439103;1458759231;asciilifeform;davout: aha.
1439104;1458759232;nubbins`;there's precedent for the latter
1439105;1458759277;trinque;if he acts as the business and declares it as so how can it be otherwise?
1439106;1458759280;jurov;davout id did misresolve a bet
1439107;1458759283;jurov;*it did
1439108;1458759287;asciilifeform;davout: but say the 1st tx went into dev/null as mircea_popescu intended it to when sending the 2nd. would the bettors have been wronged ?
1439109;1458759288;davout;in other words, if mp's claim on bbet is approved, it means he was acting on behalf of bbet, which means bbet can consider the same claim settled twice and deduct the amount from further payouts
1439110;1458759292;nubbins`;if i act as an elephant and declare it so...?
1439111;1458759298;trinque;this is nonsense
1439112;1458759300;asciilifeform;davout: yes!
1439113;1458759300;jurov;and it did not use that to settle later claims
1439114;1458759304;trinque;nubbins`: you own a business and decide what it does, yes?
1439115;1458759318;nubbins`;trinque indeed, i own a majority of shares
1439116;1458759320;davout;if mp's claim is rejected because he did not in fact act on behalf of bbet, he simply made a gracious donation to random folks of his own volition
1439117;1458759329;trinque;nubbins`: can you invest your own money in your business which is then use to pay liabilites of said business?
1439118;1458759331;trinque;yes you can
1439119;1458759342;PeterL;so either way, the recipients should not send back funds
1439120;1458759350;trinque;now if kakobrekla and mircea_popescu disagree on this point... here we are!
1439121;1458759352;davout;PeterL: there is no "should"
1439122;1458759353;PeterL;thank you for clearing that up for me , davout
1439123;1458759355;trinque;but yes you can do that
1439124;1458759357;nubbins`;as a privately-owned corporation, i can do pretty much whatever the fuck i want
1439125;1458759360;trinque;right.
1439126;1458759376;nubbins`;but if i buy a race car for personal use and charge it to the company
1439127;1458759386;trinque;you are thinking as someone in the fiat world
1439128;1458759386;nubbins`;the public will mock me and call me a fraud
1439129;1458759392;nubbins`;zzzz
1439130;1458759416;nubbins`;so many failed analogies in here
1439131;1458759437;trinque;in point of fact you can buy a race car with company funds, wtf is that
1439132;1458759442;trinque;you own the company!
1439133;1458759446;davout;jurov: so?
1439134;1458759459;jurov;just some precedent
1439135;1458759460;trinque;there's some ridiculous hotdog chain here in TX that owns one iirc with their absurd logo painted on
1439136;1458759480;nubbins`;sure, and if it's only used by the owner to go ATVing up at his cottage
1439137;1458759483;davout;jurov: there's also precedent of dividends being paid twice for a month, and then retained from further divs payments
1439138;1458759485;nubbins`;it's not a business expense anymore
1439139;1458759492;trinque;says what, canadian law?!
1439140;1458759493;nubbins`;why am i engaging in this ridiculous broken analogy
1439141;1458759530;trinque;this idea that there will be some social aggregate before which one can cry for justice...
1439142;1458759532;trinque;death to that.
1439143;1458759543;nubbins`;lol.
1439144;1458759545;nubbins`;you mistake
1439145;1458759549;davout;asciilifeform: do you agree that, if the 17 btc mp sent a second time aren't billed to bbet, it follows that this second transaction can't come in deduction of bbet liabilities to bettors/addresses?
1439146;1458759551;nubbins`;i'm not crying for justice
1439147;1458759560;nubbins`;there's no body to appeal to for justice
1439148;1458759569;nubbins`;i'm just pointing a finger and calling a thing by name.
1439149;1458759652;PeterL;either mp sent his own coin, and recipients get to keep it, or mp sent bbet coin, and davout would be justified in withholding futher payment from those addresses
1439150;1458759665;nubbins`;yep
1439151;1458759700;asciilifeform;davout: aha
1439152;1458759706;PeterL;when does Davout make this big decision?
1439153;1458759733;nubbins`;two weeks from receipt of all goods, iirc
1439154;1458759843;asciilifeform;davout: my argument in the beginning of this mega-thread was that to give ~all bettors the same fraction of the haircut~ is 'communism' because they are in fact ~unequal~ in crafting their misfortune.
1439155;1458759866;asciilifeform;davout: which is a separate issue.
1439156;1458759894;nubbins`;O.O
1439157;1458759894;davout;PeterL: yeah, that's pertty much the conclusion i came to so far
1439158;1458759938;davout;asciilifeform: i'd argue communism would actually be the opposite
1439159;1458759951;trinque;if mp declared he had loaned that coin to his business, who can say otherwise, and why?
1439160;1458759953;davout;let's not go down this road :D
1439161;1458759969;trinque;serious question imo
1439162;1458759985;nubbins`;i guess kako can
1439163;1458759989;nubbins`;because it's in the listing agreement
1439164;1458760001;nubbins`;that any weird bullshit has to get approved by both
1439165;1458760004;asciilifeform;davout: so the thieving swine who pocketed the windfall, KNEW whose coin it was, and what will happen to bbet, a 0-asset corp, when it is missing, and did nothing - have no greater share of responsibility than other bettors ?
1439166;1458760007;nubbins`;and this is some weird bullshit
1439167;1458760012;nubbins`;lol.
1439168;1458760016;davout;trinque: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.BBET see 3.2. (d)
1439169;1458760018;assbot;S.BBET last 26021@0.00002500 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SucmwO )
1439170;1458760018;nubbins`;THIEVING SWINE?!
1439171;1458760018;nubbins`;gtfo
1439172;1458760034;davout;"(d) All decisions with regards to any aspect of BitBet, measures taken in regards to any aspect of BitBet operation, any actions, activities or agreements involving BitBet will require unanimous agreement of all the representatives of BitBet. Any such decision, measure, action, activity or agreement which fails to obtain unanimous agreement of all BitBet representatives is void and unenforceable.  "
1439173;1458760050;nubbins`;just as well to call bbet a thieving swine for keeping that poor asshole's 10 btc that showed up late.
1439174;1458760055;nubbins`;asciilifeform this is taking this piss even for you.
1439175;1458760062;nubbins`;egregious
1439176;1458760070;asciilifeform;nubbins`: it is described in the manual, what will happen if you send to a closed bet.
1439177;1458760076;nubbins`;yep, agreed.
1439178;1458760087;nubbins`;you clearly failed to grasp my statement
1439179;1458760122;nubbins`;it is described in the manual of common sense what will happen if a fool pays a debt twice
1439180;1458760168;nubbins`;if you send BTC to an address i own, i'm not a thieving swine regardless of whether you meant to send it.
1439181;1458760174;nubbins`;holy cow.
1439182;1458760205;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439164 <<< the way i understand the listing is that everything had to be approved by both, it usually happened retroactively with kakobrekla signing statements, until he didn't
1439183;1458760205;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 19:06:41; nubbins`: that any weird bullshit has to get approved by both
1439184;1458760223;trinque;davout: yes that does seem to cover it clearly, though it could be argued that this fell under existing agreed division of responsibility
1439185;1458760227;davout;asciilifeform: if claims are against addresses you can't assign intentions to them!
1439186;1458760244;nubbins`;davout asciilifeform is mixing metaphors like a vitamix today
1439187;1458760249;asciilifeform;thing is, regardless of how this is settled, there was a catastrophic failure in 'protocol vs promise' land where bbet never nailed down what ~exactly~ bet winners are promised.
1439188;1458760251;davout;trinque: see previous comment, approval was usually expressed after the fact, until it didn't
1439189;1458760259;nubbins`;asciilifeform agreed
1439190;1458760275;asciilifeform;so it will be defined retroactively.
1439191;1458760279;asciilifeform;by davout.
1439192;1458760285;nubbins`;pretty seat-of-the-pants in retrospect, huh.
1439193;1458760289;asciilifeform;because he picked up the knife.
1439194;1458760296;*;trinque nods
1439195;1458760311;trinque;part of the lesson here is just how explicitly the parts of the agreement involving moving coin *must* be
1439196;1458760316;trinque;*defined
1439197;1458760322;asciilifeform;trinque has it.
1439198;1458760324;nubbins`;yeah
1439199;1458760329;davout;yep
1439200;1458760336;nubbins`;imo that's one of mp's biggest problems
1439201;1458760347;nubbins`;doesn't put enough forethought / planning into things
1439202;1458760369;trinque;it was a contract between two parties.
1439203;1458760376;davout;nubbins`: i disagree
1439204;1458760404;nubbins`;rota mega-loophole comes to mind
1439205;1458760435;davout;heh
1439206;1458760463;nubbins`;sending 20yearplan all those posters to give away to tenants too poor to own computers, in the hope of luring them here (????)
1439207;1458760470;nubbins`;bbet mess
1439208;1458760474;nubbins`;etc
1439209;1458760491;asciilifeform;gotta have PROTOCOL
1439210;1458760497;nubbins`;this you do
1439211;1458760498;asciilifeform;as in, ALGORITHMICALLY evaluatable.
1439212;1458760502;nubbins`;otherwise it's just noise vs noise
1439213;1458760503;asciilifeform;otherwise - soup.
1439214;1458760521;asciilifeform;!s buluceala
1439215;1458760522;assbot;11 results for 'buluceala' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buluceala
1439216;1458760567;BingoBoingo;;;seen ciubob
1439217;1458760567;gribble;I have not seen ciubob.
1439218;1458760580;BingoBoingo;;;seen eskimociu
1439219;1458760580;gribble;I have not seen eskimociu.
1439220;1458760605;jurov;asciilifeform: this souds like "should reimplement bitbet with ether, referees just click a button, gas gets released algoritmically, no possibility of human error"
1439221;1458760636;jurov;(i surely misread you, but which part here should have been algoritmized?)
1439222;1458760697;davout;jurov: aren't gas and ether two different things?
1439223;1458760767;jurov;that was just malapropismetaphor, i'm interested what would alf algoritmize here
1439224;1458760790;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439201 << it is very easy to 'plan' in hindsight.
1439225;1458760790;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 19:12:27; nubbins`: doesn't put enough forethought / planning into things
1439226;1458760790;nubbins`;hindsight is indeed 20/20
1439227;1458760791;asciilifeform;'if i knew where i'd fall, i'dve put something soft down' - ru proverb
1439228;1458760797;nubbins`;"if i knew everyone'd be so mad about these payouts, i would have kept company funds in a separate address"
1439229;1458760797;nubbins`;sorry, that's not a proverb
1439230;1458760814;asciilifeform;jurov: i did not propose to ~automate~ bbet
1439231;1458760828;asciilifeform;jurov: but merely to ~specify~ what it means for 'bbet owes' and 'bbet pays its debt'
1439232;1458760840;asciilifeform;i.e. does it mean 'pays from this here addr to that there at time t'
1439233;1458760842;asciilifeform;or something else.
1439234;1458760855;asciilifeform;so that a bitcoin node can calculate whether it in fact happened.
1439235;1458760857;asciilifeform;when asked to.
1439236;1458760864;asciilifeform;y'know, a ~machine~.
1439237;1458760872;asciilifeform;instead of a buncha rabbis.
1439238;1458760884;asciilifeform;or rabbi from neighbouring shtetl
1439239;1458760884;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439145 < this is an interesting q. the second 17 btc was mistakenly sent in bbet name, a mistake for which mp should be liable for.
1439240;1458760884;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 18:59:09; davout: asciilifeform: do you agree that, if the 17 btc mp sent a second time aren't billed to bbet, it follows that this second transaction can't come in deduction of bbet liabilities to bettors/addresses?
1439241;1458760910;jurov;such as, bitbet to generate "yes" "no" and "refund" transactions in advance and merely publishes one when time comes?
1439242;1458760937;asciilifeform;jurov: such as.
1439243;1458760938;kakobrekla;in other words: say if i accidental rm -rf the code and db, who is on the line here?
1439244;1458760953;jurov;prolly impossible under current calculation rules
1439245;1458760991;asciilifeform;jurov: yeah it wouldn't work with the time curve
1439246;1458761025;asciilifeform;nor with existing bitcoin
1439247;1458761041;asciilifeform;(where it does no one any good to prove that a tx was encoded at a certain time, the sender can still doublespend the funds)
1439248;1458761085;asciilifeform;i was arguing a more modest point, that if bbet had ~specified~ what it promised to bettors, we would have no thread here.
1439249;1458761095;asciilifeform;the answer - would be obvious to anyone with half a neuron.
1439250;1458761099;asciilifeform;whereas now it is not.
1439251;1458761128;asciilifeform;the whole ~point~, i thought, of bitcoin, is to nuke the buluceala
1439252;1458761132;asciilifeform;and replace it with mechanics.
1439253;1458761135;asciilifeform;protocol, vs promise.
1439254;1458761214;jurov;alternative mechanic brainstorm with current btc: all bets would be scooped to one address per proposition and winners would pe paid from there exclusively
1439255;1458761261;asciilifeform;jurov: imho that would be an improvement
1439256;1458761288;asciilifeform;and it would have cured this particular buluceala - it would be obvious who is paying whom for what at all times.
1439257;1458761304;asciilifeform;but my understanding is that mircea_popescu and kakobrekla deliberately did not build it this way
1439258;1458761308;asciilifeform;( i have nfi why )
1439259;1458761396;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has said that he intends to play the 'all coin is fungible and unidentifiable ' etc. game. which is fine. but what i don't grasp is how it is possible to craft hard record of debt and repayment without some hook on which to hang them.
1439260;1458761411;asciilifeform;how does creditor know he was paid by debtor? how does debtor know he paid creditor ?
1439261;1458761421;PeterL;jurov, wouldn't it be easier, rather than doing two transactions (sweep, then distribute) to just do a single? (bets are used to pay winnings, the 1%fee to a bbet company address)
1439262;1458761461;jurov;PeterL: these tx would be BIG
1439263;1458761488;asciilifeform;jurov: so long as <= 1MB, fine!
1439264;1458761488;jurov;and 1% fees spammy
1439265;1458761513;PeterL;is it really that much bigger than the current version? don't they already do all payout in one txn?
1439266;1458761562;PeterL;what do you mean 1% fee spammy, that is what they take as commision
1439267;1458761609;kakobrekla;asciilifeform there was 1 tx per 1 resolved bet that included all the winners with respective sums - i guess this was deemed sufficient proof
1439268;1458761630;kakobrekla;asciilifeform but it was not written in an explicit way on site
1439269;1458761649;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: aha!
1439270;1458761651;asciilifeform;so then.
1439271;1458761697;kakobrekla;if one was interested on which tx that was - would need to look for that tx in the winners addresses history and establish it from there
1439272;1458761703;asciilifeform;ill-specified agreements lead to one thing,
1439273;1458761710;asciilifeform;a fella with a long, sharp knife,
1439274;1458761713;asciilifeform;called in, to saw the baby in half.
1439275;1458761730;kakobrekla;whut?
1439276;1458761744;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: king solomon's tale
1439277;1458761758;kakobrekla;im aware of that one i just dont see it here
1439278;1458761803;asciilifeform;it means that it is not obvious whether the bettors were in fact partially paid
1439279;1458761809;asciilifeform;or merely 'graciously donated to.'
1439280;1458761822;asciilifeform;(and if so, by whom)
1439281;1458761862;asciilifeform;whereas if spec had been 'winners will receive C coins on addr A from addr B at time T if condition Q' then there would be no puzzle.
1439282;1458761919;kakobrekla;the thing is, i was in charge of x, he was in charge of y. a part of y was 'delivery of bitcoin to winning addresses' which, by mp claims, was done wrongfully (hence the charge)
1439283;1458762012;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: then http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438770
1439284;1458762012;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 15:43:19; asciilifeform: tomorrow i trip over a cable, fall on a button, accidentally fire pistol, the bullet hits another button, sends him 90 btc.
1439285;1458762055;asciilifeform;the counter-argument seems to be that they were somehow 'not really paid by bbet'
1439286;1458762072;asciilifeform;which imho is poppycock
1439287;1458762092;asciilifeform;because if tx-a had never happened, they would-have-been-paid-by-bbet
1439288;1458762095;kakobrekla;the question is wrong. you owe him 100, you send 200 and blame the inanimate fucking object.
1439289;1458762104;asciilifeform;no.
1439290;1458762117;asciilifeform;i would blame him if the next day he still says that i owe 100.
1439291;1458762170;kakobrekla;im not sure we are talking about the same thing here
1439292;1458762179;asciilifeform;regardless of how davout settles this, you gotta have a consistent algebra of debt.
1439293;1458762183;asciilifeform;or you get buluceala and chaos.
1439294;1458762253;nubbins`;  <+asciilifeform>how does creditor know he was paid by debtor? how does debtor know he paid creditor ? <<< obvious answer is when the input funds are used for payout
1439295;1458762298;nubbins`;kakobrekla asciilifeform seems to be arguing mostly alternate-universe theories
1439296;1458762305;nubbins`;elbows hitting buttons, bullets hitting buttons, etc
1439297;1458762320;nubbins`;maybe next a dirigible fleet will hit a button?
1439298;1458762334;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439239 - see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.msg1337447#msg1337447 to quote: In order to be able to offer BTC business you must at a minimum be able to correctly and safely handle payments.
1439299;1458762334;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 19:21:24; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439145 < this is an interesting q. the second 17 btc was mistakenly sent in bbet name, a mistake for which mp should be liable for.
1439300;1458762337;assbot;So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right? ... ( http://bit.ly/1MVvoFd )
1439301;1458762340;assbot;So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right? ... ( http://bit.ly/1q2Ftfv )
1439302;1458762348;nubbins`;lol
1439303;1458762358;nubbins`;hanbot to the rescue again
1439304;1458762412;nubbins`;i think she had a quote somewhere about 0-fee tx expectations too
1439305;1458762419;jurov;nubbins`: no, he proposes strictly determined flow of bitcoins through bitbet
1439306;1458762441;nubbins`;seems sensible to me.
1439307;1458762450;jurov;this can maybe even be abstracted to whole double or triple point accounting
1439308;1458762456;nubbins`;send funds to bet addr. funds remain there. winners and house grab are paid from same.
1439309;1458762464;jurov;that every account in the accounting should have its own btc address
1439310;1458762478;nubbins`;jurov if you'll recall, mp is strictly not doing this
1439311;1458762494;nubbins`;and the division of funds exists on paper only
1439312;1458762503;nubbins`;at least according to him
1439313;1458762690;hanbot;<jurov> and it did not use that to settle later claims << so when actual operator error occurred, mircea_popescu ate it, and your reaction is basically "hey, if he can pay for that, he should pay for this unrelated problem too! let's him pay for everything!", and this amidst weeks of bitching about "bad faith"?
1439314;1458762696;hanbot;the fucking gall seriously.
1439315;1458762821;jurov;yes, fucking gall seriously, sending zerofee tx for ANY reason :)
1439316;1458762827;kakobrekla;and if i delete the bitbet code is mp going to do half the coding?
1439317;1458763109;kakobrekla;and im not saying his job was easy - hence did not want to handle deposits from day 1
1439318;1458763192;kakobrekla;but if you can go around losing bitcoins as you please without consequences the whole thing is, how do you say, moot
1439319;1458763478;jurov;kakobrekla hanbot is trying to explain to everyone that mp, by covering operator error and covering other expenses, earned the moral right to sometimes shift the bill to the shareholders as he deems fit
1439320;1458763550;jurov;and how and whys of this is not to be discussed in any shape or form, to avoid upsetting things
1439321;1458763638;kakobrekla;and im trying to explain that i should be paying for everything im liable for and he should be paying for everything he is liable for.
1439322;1458763700;kakobrekla;but this clearly no longer is the case in #b-a
1439323;1458763956;jurov;well, if you made coding error resulting in 18BTC loss, pushing it to shareholders as "cost of doing business with C machines" would be perfectly fine
1439324;1458763999;kakobrekla;too bad i realize this only now, otherwise would have made such error more often.
1439325;1458764027;jurov;we learn every day.
1439326;1458764040;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439254 << not improvement. breaks bbet as a mixer.
1439327;1458764040;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 19:26:54; jurov: alternative mechanic brainstorm with current btc: all bets would be scooped to one address per proposition and winners would pe paid from there exclusively
1439328;1458764060;PeterL;ddoes bitbet need to be a mixer?
1439329;1458764079;asciilifeform;if we're subscribing to the 'all coin is fungible' religion, then mixers are a heresy.
1439330;1458764086;danielpbarron;no reason it shouldn't be. the above proposition fixes a non-problem
1439331;1458764123;asciilifeform;or breaks a non-feature.
1439332;1458764157;kakobrekla;bbl
1439333;1458764735;BingoBoingo;<PeterL> ddoes bitbet need to be a mixer? << It was a cool side effect
1439334;1458764740;hanbot;jurov> kakobrekla hanbot is trying to explain to everyone  << no dude. i'm trying to point out to YOU that YOU are abusing established good faith.
1439335;1458764844;jurov;well, then i utterly don't get it
1439336;1458764944;asciilifeform;waiwut?
1439337;1458765211;deedbot-;[Daniel P. Barron] A well-ordered family. - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/a-well-ordered-family/
1439338;1458765343;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4131 @ 0.00044447 = 1.8361 BTC [+]
1439339;1458765346;hanbot;jurov if i got plastered and proceeded to crash my car into your house last week and paid for the damages without question, and this week i'm carjacked and hit your house again, you may not use the fact that i happily paid for the former incident as proof that i should pay for the latter, and you may *especially* not attempt to use it as proof while complaining about my "bad faith"
1439340;1458765390;PeterL;BingoBoingo latest qntra s/experience/experienced
1439341;1458765407;BingoBoingo;ty
1439342;1458765731;jurov;hanbot i want first and foremost to clarify the point that mp, by mucking with zerofee tx, left the car unlocked overnight in dark alley
1439343;1458765766;jurov;which fact he vehementhly denies and bullshits around, straining MY good will in the process
1439344;1458765801;asciilifeform;reactor test?
1439345;1458765810;asciilifeform;( i still have nfi WHY he send a 0fee ! )
1439346;1458765843;jurov;so, what is he going to test next time? and how would i know hw wont decide do to bill it against me?
1439347;1458765863;jurov;*he won't
1439348;1458766003;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439262 <<< not a problem per se
1439349;1458766003;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 19:31:01; jurov: PeterL: these tx would be BIG
1439350;1458766119;PeterL;asciilifeform mpb apparently calculated his transaction did not need one, it was wrong
1439351;1458766119;asciilifeform;davout: it might be problem, if some clever fella sends the 1MB tx with 0fee...
1439352;1458766199;PeterL;if mp would share mpb txn-fee setting algorithm, then you could say why
1439353;1458766263;davout;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439329 <<< this!
1439354;1458766263;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 20:14:39; asciilifeform: if we're subscribing to the 'all coin is fungible' religion, then mixers are a heresy.
1439355;1458766352;asciilifeform;now, i can see running a mixer from pure profit motive, like an atheist might run a kosher butcher shop
1439356;1458766387;asciilifeform;but not if it gets in the way of his main business
1439357;1458766420;asciilifeform;imho sacrificing anything worthwhile 'because it will break mixer' is lunacy.
1439358;1458766538;danielpbarron;the thing proposed isn't worthwile
1439359;1458766696;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: as i understand, it was proposed as to one possible solution to formalizing the promise made by bbet when a bet is made.
1439360;1458766788;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: and if you do not think it needs formalizing, 'we could only all agree if we all saw the light' (WHICH LIGHT?!@!!) - you are gravely mistaken.
1439361;1458766911;danielpbarron;look at the bet page for a resolved bet. You'll see that BitBet claims how much it has sent and to which address it has been sent. This is sufficient for agreement.
1439362;1458766940;asciilifeform;so why should it not claim the doublesend as part of what was owed ?
1439363;1458766941;mircea_popescu;le log.
1439364;1458766943;danielpbarron;sure it doesn't fit in with your retro-actively claiming the double payment was actually a partial early payment of other bets..
1439365;1458766947;asciilifeform;what, precisely, was promised, that contradicts this, danielpbarron  ?
1439366;1458766967;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: or, rephrase the question, between whom and whom did the debt exist ?
1439367;1458766971;danielpbarron;the pages for those other bets do not display the correct amounts... no?
1439368;1458766973;asciilifeform;and what was agreed upon as 'settlement' ?
1439369;1458767008;asciilifeform;did the settlement formally include an originating addr for bbet ?
1439370;1458767014;asciilifeform;kakobrekla tells us that it never did.
1439371;1458767020;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438892 << you apparently need another hammer fucking five times ?
1439372;1458767020;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 18:03:06; asciilifeform: they were PAID.
1439373;1458767027;mircea_popescu;what happened to that ? forgotten so soon ?!
1439374;1458767029;asciilifeform;10 times!
1439375;1458767043;asciilifeform;i;ll take the ball-peen plox
1439376;1458767058;mircea_popescu;yes but you can't simply be argued out of a position then come back with it two hours later.
1439377;1458767064;mircea_popescu;makes one thing he's wasting his time with it.
1439378;1458767075;mircea_popescu;you realise this sort of argument is actually a very highly skilled, expensive sort of job.
1439379;1458767085;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i argued self into the position that the original system was ill-defined
1439380;1458767090;asciilifeform;and ergo broken.
1439381;1458767103;mircea_popescu;everything is broken in retrospect.
1439382;1458767107;asciilifeform;and that settlement is now a religious matter.
1439383;1458767132;asciilifeform;as in, the answer is not producible from the axioms.
1439384;1458767143;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438880 << own it is not in discussion here. "please make sure you aren't using it in any way that may conflict with our future notions of what it may mean" however is nonsense.
1439385;1458767143;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 17:59:46; kakobrekla: from the first paragraph of the bb faq: The beneficiary address is never changed under any circumstances. Please make sure you own it!
1439386;1458767184;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your notion that anything but "religious matters" exists is quaint and endearing, i guess, but of no practical value or import.
1439387;1458767224;asciilifeform;fact remains, this whole thing could have been an algorithmic question, but now is rabbinical.
1439388;1458767230;asciilifeform;because folks wouldn't nail down their axioms.
1439389;1458767252;mircea_popescu;yes, the code could have been more bloated
1439390;1458767254;asciilifeform;and yes, i fully expect rabbi to say that ~everything is rabbinical question~ aha.
1439391;1458767266;mircea_popescu;that doesn't result in better security, but does result in more complex rabinic arguments down the road.
1439392;1458767273;asciilifeform;when done by idiots, yes.
1439393;1458767278;mircea_popescu;it's fascinating that in one field you'd make EXACTLY the choices you unerstand to be wrong in the other.
1439394;1458767288;mircea_popescu;as if you'd have decided where to eat and where to shit or somesuch.
1439395;1458767291;asciilifeform;when done correctly - no. we don't sit here and argue about how the modular exponentiations came out.
1439396;1458767308;mircea_popescu;that is a peculiarly convenient place. not all places are like that.
1439397;1458767322;mircea_popescu;sure, if the world were a spherical chicken, etc.
1439398;1458767324;asciilifeform;my whole mission on planet3 is to multiply 'the places like that.'
1439399;1458767361;mircea_popescu;ie, nuke it ?
1439400;1458767369;mircea_popescu;places like that are few and far between for good reason.
1439401;1458767379;mircea_popescu;they're boring, for one, and actually unlivable, which is the same thing.
1439402;1458767391;asciilifeform;we don't live in the water mains
1439403;1458767394;asciilifeform;but like'em nevertheless.
1439404;1458767423;asciilifeform;and yes, inside of a water pipe it is very boring.
1439405;1458767434;hanbot;jurov what you've got is neither a point nor a fact but a contention, and while it may inform your opinion on what your own or other people's actions should be, that is ALL IT CAN DO; it does not in any way grant you the ability to use established good faith thusly.
1439406;1458767488;jurov;how do i "use established good faith thusly", again?
1439407;1458767496;mircea_popescu;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438940 << you were.
1439408;1458767496;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 18:20:49; asciilifeform: note that i am not arguing that this is a moral obligation
1439409;1458767510;asciilifeform;was i?
1439410;1458767523;mircea_popescu;yes.
1439411;1458767555;hanbot;jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439313
1439412;1458767555;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 19:51:30; hanbot: <jurov> and it did not use that to settle later claims << so when actual operator error occurred, mircea_popescu ate it, and your reaction is basically "hey, if he can pay for that, he should pay for this unrelated problem too! let's him pay for everything!", and this amidst weeks of bitching about "bad faith"?
1439413;1458767560;asciilifeform;well my argument was 'in order for bbet paying them X to be bbet's obligation, they oughta HAVE paid back the double.'
1439414;1458767574;mircea_popescu;jesus fuck look at that crap. i'm done reading this log, wtf, still with the idiots talking ?
1439415;1458767587;asciilifeform;apparently all of us but mircea_popescu are idiots ?
1439416;1458767617;mircea_popescu;i'm not going to read further logs, at all, for as long as nubbins` can speak into them.
1439417;1458767628;mircea_popescu;anyone wants something to me, say it when i'm around.
1439418;1458767635;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: y'know you could kick him.
1439419;1458767637;asciilifeform;if you felt like it.
1439420;1458767642;mircea_popescu;but otherwise i've just nullrouted log.b-a
1439421;1458767647;asciilifeform;l0l!
1439422;1458767669;asciilifeform;isn't a lord entitled to a formal lowering into pederasty ?
1439423;1458767677;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform get lost with the bs. i'm going to do your job ? not fucking interested. you wanna talk to him, do, enjoy, who am i to get in the way of idiocy.
1439424;1458767685;mircea_popescu;entitled to whatever the fuck you wish.
1439425;1458767698;asciilifeform;i suppose this is yet another thing that we never specified.
1439426;1458767706;mircea_popescu;i'm not however your motherfather, to support you no matter where your head goes.
1439427;1458767709;asciilifeform;(what happens when lords a,b,c hate p,q,r,s and wont talk)
1439428;1458767719;mircea_popescu;no matter of hate.
1439429;1458767721;asciilifeform;in churches this is called 'schism'
1439430;1458767727;asciilifeform;and leads to moar churchez.
1439431;1458767729;mircea_popescu;oh get the fuck outta here.
1439432;1458767742;mircea_popescu;not a matter of hate or anything fo the sort.
1439433;1458767746;hanbot;this "lord" shit is pretty ridiculous by now eh.
1439434;1458767755;asciilifeform;hanbot: i did not invent it
1439435;1458767759;mircea_popescu;hanbot i;m no longer going to be using it, no.
1439436;1458767786;mircea_popescu;it is nice and good to wish to turn some kids into some men. but the wishing does not do the turning, and they all got toys to play with so - there it goes.
1439437;1458767790;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on this i must agree. it ~was~ ill-specified
1439438;1458767830;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it is the priviledge of the great to try and raise the crowd ; it is the priviledge of the crowd to prove that this can not be done. very well specified, and working as intended.
1439439;1458767864;mircea_popescu;schism, listen to him go.
1439440;1458767875;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1st thing that always gets raised, when you raise a crowd, is its opinion of self.
1439441;1458767878;asciilifeform;sadly.
1439442;1458767885;mircea_popescu;yawell, fuck it.
1439443;1458767895;mircea_popescu;at least if i throw money at whores i get a dance.
1439444;1458767926;jurov;hanbot actually, i was NOT writing it in that context, it was in context of whether mispayments were ever considered against future bet winnings. so you did yourself disservice by connecting these things, and it's actually interesting you keep doing it
1439445;1458767936;asciilifeform;anyway i'm not personally mentally invested in any of this, and won't shed so much as nanoliter of tear .
1439446;1458767949;asciilifeform;i like mircea_popescu because he's a fella who tips pencils.
1439447;1458767949;jurov;yes keep assuring us
1439448;1458767971;asciilifeform;and not because he 'raises us to lords' or what.
1439449;1458768063;BingoBoingo;In other poor-a-lulz https://archive.is/UbUl0
1439450;1458768072;trinque;this pissing in the face of people who try to create worlds gives me zero cause for optimism about the future.
1439451;1458768097;trinque;^ slave culture
1439452;1458768101;mircea_popescu;jurov i want you to explain your notion of "some precedent". use clear language and be sure you can stick with its meaning.
1439453;1458768168;jurov;precedent of whether mispayments were ever considered against future bet winnings
1439454;1458768213;mircea_popescu;let me point out to you that bitbet came down over my realisation that this is how you lot think. stop fucking thinking like this before i have to cut more heads.
1439455;1458768279;jurov;and i actually mentioned the "good faith" question like 3 times in two days. and i don't like to repeat myself. were not for hanbot, it would be well safely buried in the logs by now.
1439456;1458768292;jurov;if that's what you want?
1439457;1458768348;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry, is what i want ?
1439458;1458768368;jurov;for me not to "use established good faith thusly" or some such
1439459;1458768378;jurov;nfi, actually
1439460;1458768393;mircea_popescu;that didn't make any sense.
1439461;1458768395;hanbot;jesus fuck jurov, were you bitching about bad faith or not? were you using the fact mp ate a loss before as a justification for why he should do it again or not?
1439462;1458768407;jurov;1. yes 2. no
1439463;1458768432;jurov;re:2 i was being IRONIC. and waited whether you take the bait
1439464;1458768449;hanbot;aha. well, 1's abuse, 2's...oh ffs.
1439465;1458768451;mircea_popescu;irony in irc! good lord!
1439466;1458768494;jurov;<irony> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439319 </irony>
1439467;1458768494;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 20:04:38; jurov: kakobrekla hanbot is trying to explain to everyone that mp, by covering operator error and covering other expenses, earned the moral right to sometimes shift the bill to the shareholders as he deems fit
1439468;1458768650;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>apparently all of us but mircea_popescu are idiots ? << you just now realizing?
1439469;1458768687;*;asciilifeform realizes that NOBODY agrees with asciilifeform on > 1 piece of this. but unsurprise.
1439470;1458768703;asciilifeform;(e.g., i never saw the ' mircea_popescu ought to personally eat the expense ' angle )
1439471;1458768726;nubbins`;<+hanbot>this "lord" shit is pretty ridiculous by now eh. << actually fucking ridiculous from the start, but with occasional convenient side effects
1439472;1458768758;jurov;asciilifeform: you know, hanbot is trained to see such angles :D
1439473;1458768827;asciilifeform;jurov: i have nfi.
1439474;1458768829;trinque;the petulance in here lately is revolting.
1439475;1458768845;asciilifeform;and not only i have nfi, but i sorta wish i had taken vacation to the jungle for past 3 wks.
1439476;1458768852;asciilifeform;and not logged in.
1439477;1458768894;trinque;why? everyone got to satisfy his emotional needs, feel a part of the process, get his voice heard.
1439478;1458768896;trinque;it was a great time
1439479;1458768910;asciilifeform;mno.
1439480;1458768919;jurov;very ungreat time
1439481;1458768947;asciilifeform;trinque: stage is set for various folks doing smashingly dumb things because 'would otherwise lose face.'
1439482;1458768977;asciilifeform;the only people for whom this is 'great time' is: the enemy.
1439483;1458768988;trinque;I couldn't agree more with that.
1439484;1458768990;asciilifeform;we are pretty much reenacting republical side of spanish civil war here.
1439485;1458768994;asciilifeform;*republican
1439486;1458769009;jurov;well, i feel i'd lose face either way
1439487;1458769021;asciilifeform;i dun evenhave a face.
1439488;1458769172;trinque;to invoke my upbringing... y'all ever heard of another man's business?
1439489;1458769182;asciilifeform;i bet ninjashitgun & co are rubbing their cocks raw with glee reading the last 3 wks of logz.
1439490;1458769190;trinque;maybe time to let the case be handled by davout and move on to better things
1439491;1458769199;trinque;lest we continue to look like emotionally crippled morons
1439492;1458769280;asciilifeform;i cannot speak for others, but i'm not particularly concerned with what i look like.
1439493;1458769290;asciilifeform;if i'm an imbecile, i will remain one whether 'looking like it' or not.
1439494;1458769348;asciilifeform;if anyone forgot why i'm here,
1439495;1458769366;asciilifeform;it is because mircea_popescu invited me. and i only stayed because he works with me on planeteering tech.
1439496;1458769411;asciilifeform;(and along the way teaches me useful stuff.)
1439497;1458769438;trinque;that amounts to "I just want to" and saying the world is somebody else's problem
1439498;1458769440;trinque;and this world fucking sucks
1439499;1458769465;asciilifeform;well no, planeteering is a business for many folk.
1439500;1458769482;asciilifeform;terraform the mournful pesthole, one square metre at a time
1439501;1458769584;asciilifeform;trinque: i bring it up because i reject the accusation of partaking in the emotional wreck.
1439502;1458769596;asciilifeform;i do not have strong emotions about bbet, or the participating folks.
1439503;1458769616;asciilifeform;and by commenting, was fulfilling what i see as my obligation to work in the forum.
1439504;1458769624;asciilifeform;and lay out what i see as logical case, etc.
1439505;1458769694;asciilifeform;precisely the opposite of 'i just want to x, leave me be.'
1439506;1458769706;trinque;I can see your perspective there
1439507;1458769710;trinque;I reject the notion of having no face entirely
1439508;1458769722;nubbins`;<+mircea_popescu>let me point out to you that bitbet came down over my realisation that this is how you lot think. stop fucking thinking like this before i have to cut more heads. <<< or, put another way, "stfu talking dangerous talk, alf, or s.nsa is next"
1439509;1458769739;trinque;^ see, this is fucking emotional nonsense
1439510;1458769763;trinque;and serves merely to satisfy something within nubbins`
1439511;1458769824;trinque;given he has no business with any of these companies, he's what? serving the public?
1439512;1458769826;trinque;there is no public here.
1439513;1458769839;asciilifeform;nubbins`: if tomorrow mircea_popescu decides that i am an imbecile and never speaks to me again, i will build exactly same items. and even offer him free sample!
1439514;1458769901;trinque;the way one forgets and falls back into the patterns of his youth.. it almost makes one believe in danielpbarron's demons :p
1439515;1458769914;*;trinque goes to cleanse the vile spirits elsewhere
1439516;1458770009;nubbins`;man, if there's one person i stopped reading earlier today, it's trinque
1439517;1458770023;nubbins`;"stahp fighting you guys!!!!!!" x 1000
1439518;1458770041;jurov;trinque you aren't at least rubbed the wrong way by mp's approach?
1439519;1458770053;nubbins`;trinque is too much a fanboi to be rubbed
1439520;1458770081;nubbins`;everybody should be turbo polite & proper, except of course mp, in trinque's mind
1439521;1458770088;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what am i then. in what box do i live in, in your cosmos ?
1439522;1458770092;jurov;just to complete the picture, i had to privately calm down several people who were utterly freaked out :(
1439523;1458770093;nubbins`;nevermind that mp and his gurlfriend are the biggest toilet mouths in bitcoin
1439524;1458770140;nubbins`;capable of literally nothing. but hyperbole
1439525;1458770142;nubbins`;and rhetoric
1439526;1458770146;asciilifeform;nubbins`: and here i was thinking i could at least achieve championship as arse.
1439527;1458770149;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/kslkpx.jpg
1439528;1458770151;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1WJCVNJ )
1439529;1458770160;nubbins`;asciilifeform not in this world!~
1439530;1458770200;nubbins`;<+asciilifeform>nubbins`: what am i then. in what box do i live in, in your cosmos ? << the box where deference trumps cold reason
1439531;1458770207;nubbins`;obvz
1439532;1458770317;asciilifeform;nubbins`: so far the point of greatest disagreement between him and i is whether to talk to nubbins` !
1439533;1458770365;danielpbarron;i really wish you wouldn't
1439534;1458770381;nubbins`;if wishes were poops...
1439535;1458770579;nubbins`;so, how does everyone feel about there no longer being a lordship?
1439536;1458770663;trinque;nubbins`: you're thoroughly dishonest.
1439537;1458770692;nubbins`;you're thoroughly misinformed
1439538;1458770723;nubbins`;you're also thoroughly welcome to tell someone who cares
1439539;1458770772;trinque;!rate -3 nubbins` treats the forum like reddit, behaves like a fool
1439540;1458770772;assbot;-3 is not registered in WoT.
1439541;1458770778;trinque;!rate nubbins` -3 treats the forum like reddit, behaves like a fool
1439542;1458770778;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/630ea80168b60fd9
1439543;1458770791;danielpbarron;yay!
1439544;1458770800;trinque;!v assbot:trinque.rate.nubbins`.-3:5140039d607c3f6511a9c76ed0a7086f0aa4bf6ff7012dfc451f209d543b97aa
1439545;1458770800;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -3 for nubbins` with note: treats the forum like reddit, behaves like a fool
1439546;1458770817;danielpbarron;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1439547;1458770817;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 6 via 14 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1439548;1458770823;danielpbarron;6 more clicks
1439549;1458770827;nubbins`;lel
1439550;1458770832;nubbins`;cool story
1439551;1458770835;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: dun work this way. he's on the l1.
1439552;1458770843;danielpbarron;we don't know this yet!
1439553;1458770844;trinque;that's immutable is it?
1439554;1458770855;nubbins`;hahaha
1439555;1458770858;nubbins`;oh dear
1439556;1458770862;asciilifeform;trinque: well it stays until manually knob turned
1439557;1458770875;nubbins`;if we took all the bees out of danielpbarron's and trinque's panties, we could make honey.
1439558;1458770892;trinque;look at the way this guy plays to the crowd, like it's there, and it matters
1439559;1458770896;*;trinque ignores nubbins`
1439560;1458770899;nubbins`;THANKS
1439561;1458770902;nubbins`;about fuckin time
1439562;1458770912;asciilifeform;trinque: i suppose that if we imitate republican spain long enough, mp will take his ball and go home, and there will be no l1 etc.
1439563;1458771037;asciilifeform;i kinda wonder how this would be going down if we were using gossipd.
1439564;1458771086;asciilifeform;clearly, graph would split, but into what.
1439565;1458771173;nubbins`;people who do things on one side. mp, dpb, trinque, hanbot on other. alf in middle
1439566;1458771194;asciilifeform;nubbins`: no middle.
1439567;1458771196;jurov;we're not splitting,for most people here this discussion isn't enough to get nuclear
1439568;1458771208;nubbins`;^
1439569;1458771220;nubbins`;so far it's only mp and trinque unable to work it out
1439570;1458771244;asciilifeform;jurov: thought was not about 'most people', but about mp
1439571;1458771329;danielpbarron;those of you allowing nubbins` to rile you up are in the wrong, and it does nobody but "the enemy" to persist in pretending like there's still something to argue about
1439572;1458771342;danielpbarron;does nobody any good*
1439573;1458771395;nubbins`;thanks daniel for reminding us how to think
1439574;1458771481;asciilifeform;nubbins`: what i don't get is why you continue here, instead of opening a:
1439575;1458771485;asciilifeform;#trotsky-assets
1439576;1458771507;asciilifeform;write own arsebot (nubbot?)
1439577;1458771509;asciilifeform;with own l1...
1439578;1458771510;asciilifeform;etc
1439579;1458771517;nubbins`;i actually didn't realize mp owned assbot
1439580;1458771517;trinque;because he's fine leaving things in the state they are now
1439581;1458771526;trinque;enjoys the shit
1439582;1458771542;*;trinque wonders at walking asciilifeform through the mechanics of a troll
1439583;1458771553;asciilifeform;trinque: i am beginning to see mp's pov on this, now.
1439584;1458771555;nubbins`;asciilifeform i stuck around here for the interesting convos, verbal diarrhoea from mp aside.
1439585;1458771583;nubbins`;mp is just a guy who plays MMORPGs and wanks on irc all day, to me
1439586;1458771587;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you can have'em with me in pm if it strikes your fancy. when i'm home, which is maybe 1.2 hr/day. hell, i still talk to vex!
1439587;1458771593;jurov;trinque, danielpbarron: i am not fine with things, what do you think i can do?
1439588;1458771600;nubbins`;whether he comes, goes, ignores me, shuts down his companies, erases his little lords list, w/e. don't care.
1439589;1458771627;nubbins`;asciilifeform there's plenty of folk i like talking to here besides you :D
1439590;1458771634;asciilifeform;nubbins`: happy to hear.
1439591;1458771637;nubbins`;yeah
1439592;1458771648;nubbins`;glad trinque ignored me, it was annoying having him bleat at me all the time
1439593;1458771651;danielpbarron;jurov, get fine with them already. You are wrong.
1439594;1458771658;asciilifeform;nubbins`: but i can hardly picture that ~this~ is what it looks like.
1439595;1458771685;fluffypony;nubbins`: I've added you to my Official 2016 T-shirt Printer List
1439596;1458771688;nubbins`;don't get me wrong, holding mp's feet to the fire is a good lel
1439597;1458771690;fluffypony;ok you're the only one there
1439598;1458771695;fluffypony;but still
1439599;1458771700;fluffypony;you're on a list!
1439600;1458771700;nubbins`;but really all i'm doing here is filling in the time between layers of ink
1439601;1458771703;nubbins`;fluffypony 8)
1439602;1458771726;jurov;danielpbarron: do you have any idea how many times i heard that in my life? surely you must have did too, did you likewise obey them?
1439603;1458771758;danielpbarron;no, most people never word it that way
1439604;1458771804;jurov;so?
1439605;1458771816;jurov;when they did word it right, you have obeyed?
1439606;1458771820;nubbins`;danielpbarron is pretty much hanbot-level muppet
1439607;1458771823;danielpbarron;if they were right, yes
1439608;1458771847;danielpbarron;I have had my mind changed by sound reasoning
1439609;1458772051;jurov;i wish i got some sound reasoning here, too
1439610;1458772080;danielpbarron;what's still bothering you?
1439611;1458772234;jurov;it goes back long time to things like the wences lawsuit, i likened the situation to mpex having a sinkhole in the foyer
1439612;1458772253;jurov;with label "whatever falls in, is donation to shareholders"
1439613;1458772314;danielpbarron;!s wences lawsuit
1439614;1458772315;assbot;0 results for 'wences lawsuit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=wences+lawsuit
1439615;1458772323;jurov;the rota thing
1439616;1458772345;punkman;nubbins`: i actually didn't realize mp owned assbot << I thought kakobrekla owned assbot
1439617;1458772348;jurov;wences sending rounded amoutn and the suing over fiduciary responisibility
1439618;1458772358;jurov;*then siung
1439619;1458772383;jurov;sorry: *wences sending rounded amount and then suing over fiduciary responsibility
1439620;1458772426;nubbins`;punkman oh my god, you're right.
1439621;1458772428;danielpbarron;ah this http://trilema.com/2013/case-i-wences-vs-mpex-breach-of-fiduciary-duty/
1439622;1458772429;assbot;Case I - Wences vs MPEx, Breach of fiduciary duty on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PsaeiI )
1439623;1458772455;danielpbarron;what's the issue? MPEx says send X. Guy sends Y instead.
1439624;1458772474;jurov;this was made deliberate by design and easy to avoid
1439625;1458772486;jurov;i just can't run business that way
1439626;1458772488;danielpbarron;so then don't use MPEx
1439627;1458772506;punkman;considering everyone is using private addresses these days, I wonder if donations are still a thing
1439628;1458772514;jurov;no actually i did what you're asking "maybe i'm wrong, get fine with it"
1439629;1458772552;jurov;but this happened again and again, bitbet being last case
1439630;1458772593;nubbins`;like i said before, popescu is basically a better-read karpeles
1439631;1458772598;nubbins`;shooting from the hip
1439632;1458772606;danielpbarron;punkman, indeed that might be why private addresses became a thing. account holders signing agreement that anything sent to that address gets credited to account. Since we know that there are side-contracts for the less-than-50-btc renewal of keys, this should be possible
1439633;1458772660;danielpbarron;jurov, what happened again and again? people not following the rules? How is the a strike against the rule maker?
1439634;1458772694;jurov;no, the very rules going against my values
1439635;1458772715;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1424480
1439636;1458772715;assbot;Logged on 07-03-2016 13:32:31; danielpbarron: i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it
1439637;1458772719;jurov;and that not even for a good discernible reason
1439638;1458772724;danielpbarron;so what then, you need to oust the current rule maker and then this place will be worth inhabiting? I think not.
1439639;1458772773;nubbins`;lel
1439640;1458772784;jurov;you're under impression i'm trying to oust him? just by reminding him he may have done an error?
1439641;1458772789;nubbins`;"you need to get the rats out of the kitchen and then later you'll want to make a meal there? i think not"
1439642;1458772811;danielpbarron;you just said the rules go against your values, jurov ; not that he made an error
1439643;1458772886;jurov;the rules apparently is that if he claims that was not a mistake but mining cartel, that is beyond discussion.
1439644;1458772896;danielpbarron;yes. that is true.
1439645;1458772942;danielpbarron;the only one who can violate an MPEx listing agreement is the non-MPEx party signing it
1439646;1458772954;nubbins`;o.O
1439647;1458772963;danielpbarron;which I think is made clear enough by the line about how it's the sole discression of MPEx to decide how to resolve issues
1439648;1458773059;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: lol funny you should ask. i just came across a research paper on very much this topic the other day, which i've now uploaded on my site for posterity (and your consideration) : http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Behavioral-Despair-in-the-Talmud.pdf
1439649;1458773061;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1PsaZrS )
1439650;1458773096;pete_dushenski;it addresses exactly the "can i pick it up if it's dropped?" question
1439651;1458773128;pete_dushenski;which afaicantell maps to the log discussion
1439652;1458773219;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: two bucks says that the miata owner is not the least bit displeased that two honies romped around in his ride. he's surely sorry he missed it! jealous wife, on the other hand...
1439653;1458773236;*;pete_dushenski goes to look up used miatas...
1439654;1458773644;*;nubbins` goes to print layer 7 of new btc posters
1439655;1458773662;nubbins`;but first, jazz cig
1439656;1458773696;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: The miata's just one of those vehicles that looks worse than it should because of poor aesthetic direction on other motor vehicles
1439657;1458773741;pete_dushenski;when all the world's an obeast, the skinny girl looks like a freak, aha
1439658;1458773783;nubbins`;speaking of obeast
1439659;1458773789;nubbins`;i've shed 26lb since xmas!
1439660;1458773815;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: It's just a shame they've stopped making new Miatas
1439661;1458773876;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: you must be on mp's "nobutter4u" slavegirl diet
1439662;1458773900;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: twas but a flesh wound (ie. name change)
1439663;1458773965;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: No. The most recent thing They've attached the name to in the US is clearly not actually a Miata. I'm not invested enough in the question though to make a hard determination on when the newer vehicles stopped becoming miatas
1439664;1458774094;nubbins`;pete_dushenski funny enough, no diet
1439665;1458774100;nubbins`;i just started keeping track of what i ate
1439666;1458774105;nubbins`;not restricting, just observing
1439667;1458774233;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: purist would argue that NA (1st ge) was the only true miata, but that ND (4th gen, MY2016) is a strong return to form.
1439668;1458774278;mrottenkolber;I know you are all gonna hate this, but for what its worth, I got some Git/V interop going: https://github.com/eugeneia/vgit
1439669;1458774279;assbot;GitHub - eugeneia/vgit: Git commands for V interoperability. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pIXTSD )
1439670;1458774287;pete_dushenski;nubbins`: big data ftw
1439671;1458774369;mrottenkolber;Should be enough to produce vdiffs and signatures from git repos, for whoever might want that, and god forbid, press “v signed” branches from Git (ducks).
1439672;1458774519;mrottenkolber;Relevan: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375281
1439673;1458774519;assbot;Logged on 18-01-2016 16:15:45; ascii_butugychag: btw i hope everybody understands that life with 'v' is always going to resemble dark age blood sports like cvs, etc. far more than modern greased poles (e.g., 'git')
1439674;1458774650;jurov;mrottenkolber: it's fine, as long as this won't cause V to take up complexity from git
1439675;1458775618;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: you are, i'm afraid, wasting your time.
1439676;1458775646;asciilifeform;i created v specifically as an anti-git.
1439677;1458775998;asciilifeform;!rate nubbins` -1 TILT. see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-03-2016#1426922
1439678;1458775998;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/64f5a973744c904c
1439679;1458775998;assbot;Logged on 08-03-2016 18:12:51; asciilifeform: nubbins`: dead pilots in the '30s-'40s were sometimes found with the control joystick literally torn from its moorings. they pulled against jammed flight surfaces and physically destroyed the stick. it did not help.
1439680;1458776032;asciilifeform;!v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.nubbins`.-1:7a5b27d060de53172fc3ed4fd6bffd76e9ca7031faf2054fd3007dfdd9cd81da
1439681;1458776032;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 1 to -1 with note: TILT. see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-03-2016#1426922
1439682;1458776039;asciilifeform;sorry nubs you really earned this.
1439683;1458776098;asciilifeform;mp may have dropped a cig, and lit the forest on fire. some of us tried to help stamp out the flames. others - fanned them.
1439684;1458776122;asciilifeform;i may not count for much, but will not countenance the fanning.
1439685;1458776124;shinohai;aha
1439686;1458776125;mircea_popescu;mk, so upon consideration, the issue here is that me nulling the logs is at best a stopgap, and no sort of long term or tenable solution. there's certainly no sense in me continuing to pour words into a bag i won't read the logs of, wtf.
1439687;1458776125;mircea_popescu;while it is incontrivable that the lordship has failed utterly, and is in no sense the guarantor of keeping spammers and idiots away from the forum as intended (youhadonejob.png!!!), that is a distinct and separate problem from what to do with #b-a.
1439688;1458776125;mircea_popescu;reviewing that, i can either 1) log as mod and ban the schmuck or else 2) ask kakobrekla to alter the l1.
1439689;1458776125;*;asciilifeform bbl
1439690;1458776127;mircea_popescu;1 has the manifest disadvantage that it is an exact replay of the bitbet drama. it may be argued that it is "clean" and "elegant" and "all i wanted was to protect you, son", which is so much idiotic patriarchical nonsense it makes my skin crawl - and thus let's extend kakobrekla in public the same sympathies extended in private ;
1439691;1458776131;mircea_popescu;2 requires the man who just saw the product of his not-inconsequential efforts die over "not doing what mp says, with money" have to choose whether to do what mp says...  but with people, this time. we did in fact start this channel together, just like bitbet, and he did do a lot of infrastructure work here, just as there. so... what do ?
1439692;1458776136;mircea_popescu;i dunno, but the fact remains this nonsense can't continue, if for no reason then because i won't be any part of the most recent attempt of fiat world to reclaim the republic. so for the sake of variety, let's go with : kakobrekla, you willing to take nubbins off the l1 ?
1439693;1458776159;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fwiw i just finally barfed.
1439694;1458776171;mircea_popescu;funny how that works!
1439695;1458776185;asciilifeform;there are limits even to my iron stomach.
1439696;1458776193;asciilifeform;(which needs to be refueled, bbl)
1439697;1458776318;danielpbarron;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1439698;1458776319;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 3 via 13 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1439699;1458776389;danielpbarron;only 3 more clicks. That's two changing their mind, or 3 making theirs up
1439700;1458776494;pete_dushenski;after skipping half of today's lengthy logs myself, i'm all too happy to do my part
1439701;1458776498;pete_dushenski;!unrate nubbins`
1439702;1458776498;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a2ba11679e8e1641
1439703;1458776516;danielpbarron;aw that's only a single click, but better than nothing
1439704;1458776523;pete_dushenski;!v assbot:pete_dushenski.unrate.nubbins`:184255cc92498ebb12d4e0df4b5f9aa78e0552304d9cbfd8fb95dc8a5ea07d61
1439705;1458776523;assbot;Successfully unrated nubbins`
1439706;1458776575;pete_dushenski;anyways, my rating him made no goddam sense to begin with
1439707;1458776586;pete_dushenski;but hey, i was young
1439708;1458776596;danielpbarron;if just one more switches from positive to negative we can see once and for all if a lord can be !down'd
1439709;1458776610;mircea_popescu;and to be perfectly clear - it ~was~ my stupid fucking idea of seeding the lordship off the stats page on roughly the basis of activity that got us in this mess.
1439710;1458776615;mircea_popescu;TOO FUCKING SOON OMFG.
1439711;1458776812;pete_dushenski;lol more than a few of us probably also thought we'd be riding the btc-waves to being deca+millionaires by 2016. this bitcoin thing is taking far longer than i, at least, had anticipated.
1439712;1458776871;trinque;better to learn to be a man first than suddenly have so much gunpowder
1439713;1458776879;*;trinque departs til tomorrow
1439714;1458776885;pete_dushenski;cheers mate
1439715;1458776979;pete_dushenski;but ya, being as rich as i thought i ~wanted~ to be by this point would not doubt cause as many problems as i imagined it'd solve. besides, what fucking problems ??
1439716;1458777685;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: 2016?!
1439717;1458777732;pete_dushenski;gavin-moore's law of infinitely straight lines said so!
1439718;1458777794;pete_dushenski;though i admit it's a bit strange that we're not on 19ghz boxes in the back seats of our autonomous cars...
1439719;1458777955;*;pete_dushenski to his non-autonomous car to take a cruise this fine spring evening
1439720;1458778889;ben_vulpes;stand by
1439721;1458778913;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.nubbins`:00f2127a2991435e3ba1d96b7c10ef34ad188cdeb31d7b5975794c571b5bcc31
1439722;1458778915;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.n6:688fc36e5d4d7348113e39b60c8097af5de60e92c5fbd11b1ac12ecb77d5632d
1439723;1458778917;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.isaackl:e4966403c4101d6118f24937200848e47198c5871973ed2b87e64640d3a5d7db
1439724;1458778919;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.nanotube:ff635f099bd2ab99cf94f31b1b5fbbf258a03e6775158f2f39f2f894abdcbe81
1439725;1458778921;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.marteen:284f8ee26c182606381be14a93a1d2377944448b3ed7ff7377176fe280a5a1ec
1439726;1458778923;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.elio19:1cf1df85fc805ec184032d3943f9688a5c3b3d8ad191fc6054f279927ecb95d7
1439727;1458778925;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.pinkposixpxe:3e9dd969c64b8c2fb94dff83aa81764dc122af73f170681a4dfeb1d21d239a28
1439728;1458778927;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.donpdonp:c22bec43c9ef6e56a759547e407491ae252989545a1be842dc18cde3bac0afc0
1439729;1458778929;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.jorgepasada:3077e865f06aceb398f1bac41552bb3cb29d44df3dcb5fafe5439bdef67f6f87
1439730;1458778931;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.lampelina:a6e93b67684ddec57d72ae495b4198d5053ed438990d52e4c258f0214c5a7134
1439731;1458778933;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.duffer1:62369e69eb1e572b71149d1c5633087a5d0c956aa944492b47934290dbf71a50
1439732;1458778935;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.moiety:30a286debb7e92b2ea5bbdac80f6a02515a2f376675ab1067b0d961bac6cbcbc
1439733;1458778937;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.chetty.10:0bbead18d0bb673a6b82e088c22d0b54862c212bfd35ab51298f54f2c4489892
1439734;1458778939;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.jurov.4:ed170a0f767f457de4646fe02ba6837af5bb8436e374d3e13cca12a6b4d84a54
1439735;1458778941;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.trinque.4:28ec54047cb4ffa5232a4fed6821875721cb4bfff52bab3c0f94776d90e36162
1439736;1458778943;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.rye.2:c3864667d69331c3ef21c95033855074c240140fd0082bc88908269899546b60
1439737;1458778945;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.davout.4:9f81e6bda6d377cbaae3ab40fd033e61a62f85851db1779deb44e25ae8cbef28
1439738;1458778947;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.phf.3:42aa449bb378e2feb8071ddd89679632cb5864c9878aa0ef802f1d3fd7c9ec9d
1439739;1458778949;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.pete_dushenski.1:32d4e07d5e4f0c2c482c2232734c5fefb5d97343fb690b93c90e378d62869594
1439740;1458778952;ben_vulpes;assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.bingoboingo.3:2af26f300154713dcdf24797ec6a4201e78f97a86384c110bad676dab25b4aac
1439741;1458778965;kakobrekla;you forgot the !v
1439742;1458778969;kakobrekla;spam again
1439743;1458779064;kakobrekla;ben_vulpes ?
1439744;1458779224;ben_vulpes;hahaha.
1439745;1458779260;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.nubbins`:00f2127a2991435e3ba1d96b7c10ef34ad188cdeb31d7b5975794c571b5bcc31
1439746;1458779260;assbot;Successfully unrated nubbins`
1439747;1458779262;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.n6:688fc36e5d4d7348113e39b60c8097af5de60e92c5fbd11b1ac12ecb77d5632d
1439748;1458779262;assbot;Successfully unrated n6
1439749;1458779264;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.isaackl:e4966403c4101d6118f24937200848e47198c5871973ed2b87e64640d3a5d7db
1439750;1458779265;assbot;Successfully unrated isaackl
1439751;1458779267;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.nanotube:ff635f099bd2ab99cf94f31b1b5fbbf258a03e6775158f2f39f2f894abdcbe81
1439752;1458779268;assbot;Successfully unrated nanotube
1439753;1458779269;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.marteen:284f8ee26c182606381be14a93a1d2377944448b3ed7ff7377176fe280a5a1ec
1439754;1458779269;assbot;Successfully unrated marteen
1439755;1458779270;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.elio19:1cf1df85fc805ec184032d3943f9688a5c3b3d8ad191fc6054f279927ecb95d7
1439756;1458779271;assbot;Successfully unrated elio19
1439757;1458779273;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.pinkposixpxe:3e9dd969c64b8c2fb94dff83aa81764dc122af73f170681a4dfeb1d21d239a28
1439758;1458779273;assbot;Successfully unrated pinkposixpxe
1439759;1458779274;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.donpdonp:c22bec43c9ef6e56a759547e407491ae252989545a1be842dc18cde3bac0afc0
1439760;1458779275;assbot;Successfully unrated donpdonp
1439761;1458779277;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.jorgepasada:3077e865f06aceb398f1bac41552bb3cb29d44df3dcb5fafe5439bdef67f6f87
1439762;1458779277;assbot;Successfully unrated jorgepasada
1439763;1458779279;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.lampelina:a6e93b67684ddec57d72ae495b4198d5053ed438990d52e4c258f0214c5a7134
1439764;1458779279;assbot;Successfully unrated lampelina
1439765;1458779281;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.duffer1:62369e69eb1e572b71149d1c5633087a5d0c956aa944492b47934290dbf71a50
1439766;1458779281;assbot;Successfully unrated duffer1
1439767;1458779283;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.moiety:30a286debb7e92b2ea5bbdac80f6a02515a2f376675ab1067b0d961bac6cbcbc
1439768;1458779285;assbot;Successfully unrated moiety
1439769;1458779285;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.chetty.10:0bbead18d0bb673a6b82e088c22d0b54862c212bfd35ab51298f54f2c4489892
1439770;1458779285;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for chetty from 2 to 10 with note: will never sin again
1439771;1458779287;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.jurov.4:ed170a0f767f457de4646fe02ba6837af5bb8436e374d3e13cca12a6b4d84a54
1439772;1458779287;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 3 to 4.
1439773;1458779288;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.trinque.4:28ec54047cb4ffa5232a4fed6821875721cb4bfff52bab3c0f94776d90e36162
1439774;1458779289;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for trinque from 3 to 4.
1439775;1458779291;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.rye.2:c3864667d69331c3ef21c95033855074c240140fd0082bc88908269899546b60
1439776;1458779291;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for rye from 3 to 2.
1439777;1458779293;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.davout.4:9f81e6bda6d377cbaae3ab40fd033e61a62f85851db1779deb44e25ae8cbef28
1439778;1458779294;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for davout from 3 to 4.
1439779;1458779295;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.phf.3:42aa449bb378e2feb8071ddd89679632cb5864c9878aa0ef802f1d3fd7c9ec9d
1439780;1458779295;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for phf from 1 to 3.
1439781;1458779296;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.pete_dushenski.1:32d4e07d5e4f0c2c482c2232734c5fefb5d97343fb690b93c90e378d62869594
1439782;1458779297;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for pete_dushenski from 2 to 1.
1439783;1458779299;ben_vulpes;!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.bingoboingo.3:2af26f300154713dcdf24797ec6a4201e78f97a86384c110bad676dab25b4aac
1439784;1458779300;assbot;Successfully updated the rating for bingoboingo from 2 to 3.
1439785;1458779375;ben_vulpes;sorry kakobrekla, was that me?!
1439786;1458779382;kakobrekla;no it was me
1439787;1458779423;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439691 << haha! how pretentious. its almost as entertaining as the miners konspiraci. anyway, unlike bitbet which was a shared toy between us and was damaged beyond repair by your foolish actions for which you dont care to take responsibility (but will be, on the end, enforecd upon you), let the record state #b-a is solely my creation and you inhabited the chan a week or so later. and yes,
1439788;1458779423;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 23:35:31; mircea_popescu: 2 requires the man who just saw the product of his not-inconsequential efforts die over "not doing what mp says, with money" have to choose whether to do what mp says...  but with people, this time. we did in fact start this channel together, just like bitbet, and he did do a lot of infrastructure work here, just as there. so... what do ?
1439789;1458779423;kakobrekla;i made it inhabitable for some interesting folks with (the lack of) various rules and various perks.
1439790;1458779470;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439692 < and i actually suspect, given your recent reckless behaviour followed by destructive actions you have been compromised by that very same fiat system and are on a good way of dismantling the republic (simulate a world where mp admits a mistake and eats his own cooking and see how it compares to this)
1439791;1458779470;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 23:35:36; mircea_popescu: i dunno, but the fact remains this nonsense can't continue, if for no reason then because i won't be any part of the most recent attempt of fiat world to reclaim the republic. so for the sake of variety, let's go with : kakobrekla, you willing to take nubbins off the l1 ?
1439792;1458779527;kakobrekla;that being said, i believe b-a should be self regulating and not depended on what mp or kako thinks, the solution, already in effect, is: the condition to self-voice is no longer L1>0 || L2>0 but instead L1 + L2 > 0, which also goes along the notion that lordship no longer exists. the power is your hands now, people.
1439793;1458780702;mod6;i got my red-dragon compiler book!
1439794;1458780705;mod6;you're all screwed now.
1439795;1458781296;shinohai;!unrate Zuardi
1439796;1458781297;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f9095e9a9e182559
1439797;1458781340;shinohai;!v assbot:shinohai.unrate.Zuardi:0a397c4756787bd7bd99499a09f39fb11bdc7dff7f4be552e2b70c6fa8e3ea37
1439798;1458781340;assbot;Successfully unrated Zuardi
1439799;1458786941;asciilifeform;'Hard is it on earth, / with mighty whoredom; Axe-time, sword-time, / shields are sundered, Wind-time, wolf-time, / ere the world falls; Nor ever shall men / each other spare.' (the poetic edda, vol1)
1439800;1458787894;mircea_popescu;i'm about as interested in participating in democracy of any kind or description as you can imagine. #b-a existed to any degree and in any sense for as long as it wasn't that. it can go back to being #okcupid or whatever the fuck else the "power of the people" warrants.
1439801;1458788015;kakobrekla;not really a democracy but there is no more immutability for l1
1439802;1458788223;mircea_popescu;i guess might as well try this.
1439803;1458788280;asciilifeform;in unrelated nyooz, john h conway's book on quaternions and octonions is mega-spiffy.
1439804;1458788309;asciilifeform;brain-pouring-from-nose spiffy.
1439805;1458788324;asciilifeform;(yeah the 'game of life' conway)
1439806;1458788913;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla i don't rightly understand what this midway solution actually is. so if l1 is empty, then how is l2 defined. and if l1 isn't empty then... what ?
1439807;1458788959;kakobrekla;l1 is unchanged but for one to be in l2 one must be rated by l1
1439808;1458788981;asciilifeform;isn't this how it worked before..?
1439809;1458789035;kakobrekla;yes, however i repeat: the condition to self-voice is no longer L1>0 || L2>0 but instead L1 + L2 > 0
1439810;1458789038;mircea_popescu;not a cure but a stitch. i see. well... for now, anyway.
1439811;1458789056;kakobrekla;before you could have l1 = 1, l2 = -9000 and still voice yourself
1439812;1458789058;kakobrekla;now - no longer.
1439813;1458789176;asciilifeform;kakobrekla: i guess i misunderstood the new formula, i thought it'd be a 'house of lords' vs 'commons' thing, where l1 could be lowered into pederasty by negs from l1 solely.
1439814;1458789198;kakobrekla;asciilifeform the thing is from assbot pov
1439815;1458789218;asciilifeform;but i have no strong emotion re this. nor 'did anybody ask me' (tm) (r)
1439816;1458789283;kakobrekla;yeah it was decided by a secret court with secret evidence you see
1439817;1458789311;asciilifeform;i dun actually have any problem with folks buildin' toys and playing by the rules they themselves conceive
1439818;1458789330;asciilifeform;and this is not in any sense my toy.
1439819;1458789338;kakobrekla;mhm
1439820;1458789345;asciilifeform;i just got invited to play.
1439821;1458789700;mircea_popescu;for curiosity, i actually checked the old logs. this was reg'd apr 10th 2012 ; at the time i was hanging out in #bitcoin-otc-eu ; he mentioned it there sometime on the 12th that caught my eye and the rest be history.
1439822;1458789735;kakobrekla;(i also created #bitcoin-otc-eu)
1439823;1458789736;mircea_popescu;ah what a time.
1439824;1458789748;asciilifeform;'Some situations do not have a ruling and are explicitly listed as teyku. Such passages occur 319  times in the Talmud and are listed by Jacobs (1981). The meaning of teyku is not definitively 2 known. Its literal meaning is akin to “it stands,” in other words, the problem is unsolvable. On the  other hand, another tradition suggests it is an acronym for a phrase meaning that the Biblical  prophet Eliyahu will come and sol
1439825;1458789749;asciilifeform;ve these problems at the time of the coming of the Messiah.' << from pete_dushenski's http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439648
1439826;1458789749;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 22:44:19; pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: lol funny you should ask. i just came across a research paper on very much this topic the other day, which i've now uploaded on my site for posterity (and your consideration) : http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Behavioral-Despair-in-the-Talmud.pdf
1439827;1458789757;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla freenode says nanotube for some reason. which is odd, i also recalled you had registered it.
1439828;1458789982;kakobrekla;i possibly just initiated it
1439829;1458790036;mircea_popescu;atlas lol. such logs.
1439830;1458790747;mircea_popescu;but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/588d3113054f6f2df05a1096a03ddc4a/tumblr_ngd4juzpjZ1r0rz5eo1_1280.jpg
1439831;1458790748;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1S7EykD )
1439832;1458790962;deedbot-;[Trilema] Do you know who did this ? - http://trilema.com/2016/do-you-know-who-did-this/
1439833;1458792063;asciilifeform;that thing is glorious.
1439834;1458795992;punkman;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439792 doesn't that mean that a lot of people that have never showed up can affect #b-a voice
1439835;1458795992;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 00:32:07; kakobrekla: that being said, i believe b-a should be self regulating and not depended on what mp or kako thinks, the solution, already in effect, is: the condition to self-voice is no longer L1>0 || L2>0 but instead L1 + L2 > 0, which also goes along the notion that lordship no longer exists. the power is your hands now, people.
1439836;1458796817;punkman;2016, year of the jumped sharks
1439837;1458801824;davout;ohai all
1439838;1458801835;davout;mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/23GJRZM.txt
1439839;1458801836;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RACuHx )
1439840;1458804779;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27456 @ 0.00044447 = 12.2034 BTC [+]
1439841;1458807079;mircea_popescu;davout says change pending approval, you prolly have to do something.
1439842;1458807254;BingoBoingo; <pete_dushenski> lol more than a few of us probably also thought we'd be riding the btc-waves to being deca+millionaires by 2016. this bitcoin thing is taking far longer than i, at least, had anticipated. << You've gotta have a fief to contribute to these things
1439843;1458815217;davout;mircea_popescu: domain received!
1439844;1458817965;BingoBoingo;!v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.nubbins`.-1:5bcc9d3025009d7e886943a450883f4affda67942c36153ef93d1e0bca224614
1439845;1458817965;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -1 for nubbins` with note: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426930
1439846;1458818617;shinohai;http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/twitter-boost-for-preet-bharara-after-indictment-announcement-1.11606093  <<< Preeeeet is a flash-in-the pan twitter star!
1439847;1458818619;assbot;Twitter boost for Preet Bharara after indictment announcement | Newsday ... ( http://bit.ly/1UJj3MY )
1439848;1458819044;davout;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1439849;1458819045;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 0 via 12 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1439850;1458819890;danielpbarron;oo
1439851;1458819894;danielpbarron;!down nubbins`
1439852;1458819925;danielpbarron;oh right, needs to add up to 0, so one more
1439853;1458820559;nubbins`;lol.
1439854;1458820566;nubbins`;this place really went full-rage overnight.
1439855;1458820568;nubbins`;mp says
1439856;1458820577;nubbins`;"KICK NUBS OUTTA HERE OR ELSE"
1439857;1458820586;nubbins`;kako says no and tells mp he's a baby
1439858;1458820628;nubbins`;just wanted to take this opportunity, while i can still self-voice, to let you all know that most of you are weeaboo basement-dwelling troglodytes and i respect very few of you
1439859;1458820738;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439787 << this and following statements are tubo-lulzy.
1439860;1458820738;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 00:30:23; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439691 << haha! how pretentious. its almost as entertaining as the miners konspiraci. anyway, unlike bitbet which was a shared toy between us and was damaged beyond repair by your foolish actions for which you dont care to take responsibility (but will be, on the end, enforecd upon you), let the record state #b-a is solely my creation and you inhabited the 
1439861;1458820750;nubbins`;not as lulzy as mp trying -- and failing -- to just ignore me
1439862;1458820850;nubbins`;asciilifeform fwiw you now fall under the "people i no longer respect" category, have fun licking mp's toes
1439863;1458820874;nubbins`;i hear they taste like the toes of a man so lazy and slothful that he thought his indigestion was pancreatic cancer
1439864;1458820900;davout;nubbins`: seriously, is someone supposed to care about who you respect or not? does making a point really justify being obnoxious about it?
1439865;1458820935;nubbins`;nope
1439866;1458820976;nubbins`;i'd be surprised if any rational adult thought what internet-friendz thought of them
1439867;1458820982;nubbins`;*cared what
1439868;1458821002;davout;are you done?
1439869;1458821053;nubbins`;hard to say. probably.
1439870;1458821093;nubbins`;done with this festering shit-hole anyway
1439871;1458821105;nubbins`;reeks like mp and hanbot in here
1439872;1458821139;davout;do you care?
1439873;1458821155;nubbins`;course not
1439874;1458821160;nubbins`;just poking them both w/ stick
1439875;1458821208;nubbins`;it's funny how mp spent the past X years in here being the biggest salty adult-baby he could, but then once someone else tries acting like an asshole towards mp, the entire place falls apart.
1439876;1458821223;nubbins`;says a lot about the glue that held the place together
1439877;1458821296;asciilifeform;nubbins`: fwiw you got my - because you refuse to quit shitting in the kitchen. i waited for weeks, thinking you would tire of it, but no dice. if you want to constructively nemesis mp, start a blog, ffs.
1439878;1458821350;davout;nubbins`: you're not acting like an asshole to mp, you're acting like an asshole to everyone. let me know when you're done if you ever feel like getting !unrate'd
1439879;1458821363;asciilifeform;^
1439880;1458821385;asciilifeform;which is why my rating was 'tilt'
1439881;1458821407;davout;!v assbot:davout.rate.nubbins`.-1:973f14720f4b2f4766ec4a84bb8d7261dbc3a8be796e1271b37f782ae2d03efb
1439882;1458821407;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -1 for nubbins` with note: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439878
1439883;1458821411;davout;!down nubbins`
1439884;1458821417;punkman;heh
1439885;1458821425;davout;blergh
1439886;1458821427;*;asciilifeform takes off hat.
1439887;1458821433;davout;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1439888;1458821433;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: -1 via 13 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1439889;1458821437;davout;!down nubbins`
1439890;1458821472;nubbins`;*cough*
1439891;1458821485;nubbins`;asciilifeform this isn't a kitchen, it's an outhouse
1439892;1458821494;nubbins`;it's just smelled like food for a while
1439893;1458821503;davout;kakobrekla: ^ isn't it supposed to werk that way?
1439894;1458821505;nubbins`;davout third time's a charm?
1439895;1458821526;nubbins`;probably just a holdover in the code where a self-!upped person can't be !downed by someone else
1439896;1458821532;davout;til a new expression
1439897;1458821540;nubbins`;:D
1439898;1458821549;asciilifeform;nubbins`: your outhouse, my kitchen. which is why this.
1439899;1458821560;nubbins`;asciilifeform your kitchen smells of poo :(
1439900;1458821574;asciilifeform;nubbins`: no shit
1439901;1458821582;nubbins`;actually, yes shit
1439902;1458821591;nubbins`;reek streams in all the way from Bs.As.
1439903;1458821643;nubbins`;note that without mp scamz0ring, i didn't have any other outstanding issues
1439904;1458821650;nubbins`;aside from the general level of brown-nosing and illogic
1439905;1458821678;nubbins`;but i'm more than okay with how this trade has worked out
1439906;1458821682;davout;cool story lord
1439907;1458821692;nubbins`;no lords, didn't ya get the message?
1439908;1458821703;nubbins`;mp decreed
1439909;1458821712;punkman;the lords are shit, the logs are shit, bitcoin is shit, trb is shit
1439910;1458821732;davout;ugh, shit's becoming mainstream apparently
1439911;1458821747;thestringpuller;tis a shit blizzard randy
1439912;1458821752;asciilifeform;nubbins`: somehow you ended up stuck on 1 subj, which is why folks are trying to unplug ya. try starting a blog? i - will read it, fwiw.
1439913;1458821752;nubbins`;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439790
1439914;1458821752;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 00:31:10; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439692 < and i actually suspect, given your recent reckless behaviour followed by destructive actions you have been compromised by that very same fiat system and are on a good way of dismantling the republic (simulate a world where mp admits a mistake and eats his own cooking and see how it compares to this)
1439915;1458821762;davout;anyway, ttyl all
1439916;1458821765;nubbins`;cheers
1439917;1458821784;nubbins`;asciilifeform ^ that stmt from kako was directed towards.... me?
1439918;1458821788;punkman;asciilifeform: talking about 1 subject, how about the mega-debate about stakes, twice a day
1439919;1458821796;nubbins`;asciilifeform or... mp?
1439920;1458821815;punkman;not that I endorse all of nubbins` trollin'
1439921;1458821822;nubbins`;endorsement not necessary
1439922;1458821828;nubbins`;doing this for me, not you :)
1439923;1458821843;asciilifeform;punkman: which one, the one re whether stake gotta be thick vs thin? we only do that one biweekly!1111
1439924;1458821852;punkman;oh it has been amusing at times nubbins`
1439925;1458821933;nubbins`;thanks, i'd hoped so
1439926;1458822018;nubbins`;god, how humiliating for mp. he explicitly ordered that i be banished and it didn't happen
1439927;1458822018;asciilifeform;i enjoyed nubbins` 's b000kz. and wish he didn't insist on building his outhouse here.
1439928;1458822027;nubbins`;asciilifeform we all gotta shit somewhere buddy
1439929;1458822031;punkman;I guess not very amusing for the folks losing money
1439930;1458822042;nubbins`;punkman well, that's why all the negrates
1439931;1458822060;asciilifeform;ftr i lost 0
1439932;1458822067;nubbins`;i as well
1439933;1458822087;nubbins`;although my eternally-useless s.mg stock warrant will likely remain useless, i don't think my actions had any direct effect on that
1439934;1458822105;punkman;hey s.mg was actually making some moneyz
1439935;1458822107;nubbins`;overall i think i'm up about 20 btc from this place
1439936;1458822113;asciilifeform;nubbins`: you could perhaps sell it?
1439937;1458822123;nubbins`;asciilifeform unfortunately no. warrant sez.
1439938;1458822142;thestringpuller;exercise the warrant and sell the stock?
1439939;1458822147;punkman;you gotta put coin in to get the stock right?
1439940;1458822154;nubbins`;"S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant
1439941;1458822154;nubbins`;by or among third parties. The administration of any such contracts
1439942;1458822154;nubbins`;remains the sole responsibility of the respective parties involved."
1439943;1458822159;nubbins`;thestringpuller lol, at a loss?!
1439944;1458822164;thestringpuller;oh it'd be a loss?
1439945;1458822171;nubbins`;punkman it's a warrant to purchase stock at a certain price
1439946;1458822173;punkman;!t m s.mg
1439947;1458822174;assbot;[MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00009 / 0.00009 / 0.0000902 (422055 shares, 37.98 BTC), 30D: 0.00009 / 0.00009 / 0.0000902 (422055 shares, 37.98 BTC)
1439948;1458822213;punkman;what's the price you got nubbins`?
1439949;1458822223;thestringpuller;actually there are no bids
1439950;1458822243;nubbins`;http://trilema.com/2013/eulora-october-update/#footnote_3_50077
1439951;1458822244;assbot;Eulora October update on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RB1FJS )
1439952;1458822246;thestringpuller;906 bids at 9000 satosh then 2000 at 2500 satosh
1439953;1458822246;nubbins`;1.3x
1439954;1458822255;nubbins`;thestringpuller surprised? :S
1439955;1458822286;nubbins`;current state of eulora will be current state of eulora in 10 years
1439956;1458822294;asciilifeform;i bet there's a chan. somewhere with pankkake, thickasthieves, et al. perhaps nubbins` will get invitation! it is, i suspect, an interesting place.
1439957;1458822298;nubbins`;because mp doesn't want to build things, he wants to glue people to him
1439958;1458822312;nubbins`;hence why he didn't just hire alf at a reasonable wage for a couple years
1439959;1458822325;nubbins`;hence why eulora was a part-time project for 1 developer
1439960;1458822326;nubbins`;etc
1439961;1458822335;nubbins`;y'know, the way "billionaires" build things.
1439962;1458822353;asciilifeform;nubbins`: fella dun believe in wage labour, i actually did not think this was outrageous
1439963;1458822359;nubbins`;glacially slow, entwining otherwise productive people in the process
1439964;1458822373;nubbins`;asciilifeform the rate of progress on all mp projects is what's outrageous
1439965;1458822389;nubbins`;you don't believe in gravity, you're still stuck to the floor, no?
1439966;1458822448;asciilifeform;hey it worked for medieval cathedrals. but this is fair complaint. if you like speed, go to the races, not to me, i am the turtle.
1439967;1458822602;asciilifeform;nubbins`: srsly i recommend, to blog. try it. you certainly have enough material, for once.
1439968;1458822661;danielpbarron;asciilifeform, they have a voice chat thing
1439969;1458822675;danielpbarron;and he has a blog, it just isn't used much
1439970;1458822680;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: waiwut
1439971;1458822684;asciilifeform;who has?
1439972;1458822690;danielpbarron;TaT et al
1439973;1458822702;danielpbarron;"whale club"
1439974;1458822706;asciilifeform;lol,srsly?
1439975;1458822733;danielpbarron;idk if pankakke is there
1439976;1458823169;nubbins`;i don't have a blog
1439977;1458823198;asciilifeform;nubbins`: start?
1439978;1458823200;nubbins`;you may have mistaken madcaptomfoolery as my personal blog, judging by the fact that i noticed it on your "friends" links list the same day it was removed
1439979;1458823204;nubbins`;but it's not
1439980;1458823213;nubbins`;and i have no desire to start writing a blog
1439981;1458823333;nubbins`;asciilifeform you know how much shit you're gonna catch from mp for saying my name this many times?
1439982;1458823383;PeterL;mp only gets mad if asciilifeform says his name, not if he says your name
1439983;1458823417;asciilifeform;nubbins`: l0l i dun know why you think this is about him. it is about how we log in and it is #nubbins
1439984;1458823452;asciilifeform;this is why even the folks who thought nubbins` had a point, are pissed
1439985;1458823828;*;asciilifeform bbl.
1439986;1458823951;nubbins`;PeterL oh, right
1439987;1458823979;nubbins`;asciilifeform the people who /thought/ i had a point, hey?
1439988;1458824009;nubbins`;i guess they're the sort of people who can disavow logic if the person spelling it out for them is annoying
1439989;1458824018;*;nubbins` applauds
1439990;1458824115;PeterL;nubbins` would you rather he used the present tense? the people who agree with your position do not like you repeating it over and over
1439991;1458824160;nubbins`;i'd rather people say what they mean, yes
1439992;1458824190;nubbins`;trouble with this place is you need to repeat yourself endlessly to cut through the echoes.
1439993;1458824223;PeterL;everything is in the log, no need to repeat yourself
1439994;1458824265;nubbins`;not everything; i did a great article write-up for qntra a couple weeks ago about how this bbet stuff was gonna cleave the lordship in half etc
1439995;1458824272;nubbins`;bingo didn't publish it, likely to his chagrin
1439996;1458824471;nubbins`;anyway, i sorta knew from the start that most people would just blithely ignore mp's wrongdoings. this is a chan where you can scam as long as you're "in the crew"
1439997;1458824488;nubbins`;see TaT's PMB scam for reference
1439998;1458824508;nubbins`;hell, see mpex's PMB scam for reference.
1439999;1458824638;nubbins`;at the very least, it's heartwarming to see the actual people who actually do stuff (jurov, kako) seeing the light and calling out mp's shenanigans
1440000;1458824642;nubbins`;i'll almost miss this place
1440001;1458824829;davout;nubbins`: not like anyone'll insist on throwing you out if you simply cut the haet
1440002;1458824856;davout;well, not necessarily the haet but its constant repetition
1440003;1458824961;nubbins`;duod the next time i de-voice i can't re-voice
1440004;1458824965;nubbins`;this is the finish line
1440005;1458824997;nubbins`;i got negrated by too many fanbois
1440006;1458825043;PeterL;does - in l2 superceed + in l1?
1440007;1458825071;nubbins`;iirc the new rule is L1+L2 > 0
1440008;1458825082;nubbins`;as of yesterday when mp tried to get kako to kick me out and kako said no
1440009;1458825098;PeterL;people can still !up you though
1440010;1458825109;nubbins`;sure, but zzzzz.
1440011;1458825138;nubbins`;why would any self-respecting adult want to deal with that
1440012;1458825434;davout;nubbins`: because people don't negrate because they're fanbois, they negrate because you behave like an obnoxious child
1440013;1458825641;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00044447 = 12.9785 BTC [+]
1440014;1458825651;nubbins`;i have 5 negative ratings: 4 of them are from mp, hanbot, dpb, trinque.
1440015;1458825657;nubbins`;you sure they don't do it because fanboi?
1440016;1458825936;davout;i do not speak for others, mine is not.
1440017;1458825954;davout;anyway, this is a waste of everyone's time, bbl.
1440018;1458826656;PeterL;kakobrekla if nubbins` is still in L1, and rage negrates everybody -10, would that keep a bunch of people from self-voicing?
1440019;1458826758;PeterL;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439709 << heh, if lordship was seeded now, I might have made the cut?
1440020;1458826758;assbot;Logged on 23-03-2016 23:43:30; mircea_popescu: and to be perfectly clear - it ~was~ my stupid fucking idea of seeding the lordship off the stats page on roughly the basis of activity that got us in this mess.
1440021;1458827550;nubbins`;PeterL correct
1440022;1458827584;nubbins`;the lordship list was never more than "a list of people mp felt were more-or-less beholden to his awesomeness"
1440023;1458827604;PeterL;hmm, maybe I should not have said that where nubbins` could hear it? oops
1440024;1458827620;nubbins`;lel
1440025;1458827647;nubbins`;besides, i don't think anyone who actually talks in here has so few + ratings that i could negrate them into silence
1440026;1458827657;PeterL;me?
1440027;1458827678;nubbins`;but i like you
1440028;1458827685;PeterL;gee, thanks
1440029;1458827695;nubbins`;fwiw, hey
1440030;1458827929;fluffypony;I think other people would counterbalance the ratings if it came down to that
1440031;1458827943;fluffypony;the WoT is a benevolent god
1440032;1458828052;nubbins`;!gettrust assbot nubbins`
1440033;1458828052;assbot;Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: -1 via 13 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
1440034;1458828065;nubbins`;scary!
1440035;1458828365;jurov;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439999 eh, go to tvtropes with these sentiments
1440036;1458828365;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 13:03:58; nubbins`: at the very least, it's heartwarming to see the actual people who actually do stuff (jurov, kako) seeing the light and calling out mp's shenanigans
1440037;1458828377;nubbins`;;/
1440038;1458828413;*;nubbins` unsure if he should go to tvtropes, reddit, forum first
1440039;1458828469;thestringpuller;lol ver is bragging his website loads > doherty threshold.
1440040;1458828641;jurov;the last thing i need is to convince myself i see more light than $someone . was bitten too many times by that.
1440041;1458828987;nubbins`;smart man
1440042;1458828991;nubbins`;!up joesmoe
1440043;1458829041;nubbins`;thestringpuller depends on the width of the tube, no?
1440044;1458829349;nubbins`;!up Blazed
1440045;1458829520;thestringpuller;nubbins`: doherty threshold is psychological. you are more likely to get distracted with another task if the computer doesn't respond under 400ms
1440046;1458829541;thestringpuller;so bitcoin.com loading in 3.9 seconds is atrocious
1440047;1458829544;nubbins`;sure.
1440048;1458829554;nubbins`;but to an extend, that depends on my internet connection
1440049;1458829557;nubbins`;*extent
1440050;1458829578;nubbins`;all ver can control is the size of the pipes on HIS end.
1440051;1458829602;nubbins`;brb
1440052;1458829603;thestringpuller;well the size of the load
1440053;1458829636;thestringpuller;front page of qntra < 1MB
1440054;1458829648;nubbins`;how long to load 1MB on, e.g., ISDN?
1440055;1458829784;thestringpuller;18.19s on 50kbps throttling
1440056;1458829825;thestringpuller;that's the images tho.
1440057;1458829829;thestringpuller;hogan.gif
1440058;1458830064;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/TUtBMH.jpg
1440059;1458830066;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1LJEFGg )
1440060;1458830141;BingoBoingo;https://i.sli.mg/6PuoA3.jpg
1440061;1458830142;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1LJF1Ni )
1440062;1458832103;mircea_popescu;heh, so in the end kakobrekla fix does not actually work ? word.
1440063;1458832321;mircea_popescu;anyway, i'm not going to read the latest installments in fiatista turdology, much like hte prev ones. nor do i need to, they're perpetually the same crud. in any case : loyalty is not a bad thing. loyalty to bad people is a bad thing, but loyalty in general is the only saving grace of manhood. the one probem socialism generally encounters is loyalty, which is why the whole song and dance.
1440064;1458832347;mircea_popescu;people new to the topic of how the democratic cancer spreads may just as well read orlov's last bit linked by alf, or any other of ten billion treatises on the topic.
1440065;1458832893;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you didn't miss much
1440066;1458832929;fluffypony;sorry but the rule is you have to read the logs, no exceptions
1440067;1458832950;fluffypony;otherwise you learn nothing and you're forever forced to wallow in your own ignorance
1440068;1458832956;mircea_popescu;word.
1440069;1458833047;mircea_popescu;see asciilifeform tis not "the enemy!" that's having the most lulz. by and large such enemy is either too petrified to laugh for a decade+, or else if too dumb to be so petrified, also too dumb to see the humour. nah, most laughs are had by people doing other things, a la fluffy here. fine position to both appreciate the humour of it and remote enough to not go into seizures over it.
1440070;1458833439;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-left-impaired-ai-to-suffer-twitter-humiliation/
1440071;1458833441;assbot;Microsoft Left Impaired AI To Suffer Twitter Humiliation | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1VJognr )
1440072;1458833907;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439889 < ahh i think i forgot to edit the !down part, did just the !up
1440073;1458833907;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 12:10:37; davout: !down nubbins`
1440074;1458833928;kakobrekla;i mean http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439893 instaed
1440075;1458833928;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 12:11:43; davout: kakobrekla: ^ isn't it supposed to werk that way?
1440076;1458834195;kakobrekla;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1440063 < blind loyalty is a bad thing in any case
1440077;1458834195;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 15:12:01; mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not going to read the latest installments in fiatista turdology, much like hte prev ones. nor do i need to, they're perpetually the same crud. in any case : loyalty is not a bad thing. loyalty to bad people is a bad thing, but loyalty in general is the only saving grace of manhood. the one probem socialism generally encounters is loyalty, which is why the whole song and dance.
1440078;1458834222;mircea_popescu;there is no such thing as "seeing" loyalty. loyalty is always blind. when it's not blind it's called seeing your interest.
1440079;1458834245;kakobrekla;being loyal to jumping out of window is stupid
1440080;1458834268;mircea_popescu;being loyal is "stupid" for any fiat definition of stupidity.
1440081;1458834275;mircea_popescu;it fails to maximize your collection of hamburgers.
1440082;1458834299;kakobrekla;the other one can cost you your sanity.
1440083;1458834350;mircea_popescu;quite so.
1440084;1458834368;kakobrekla;that is a bad thing.
1440085;1458834413;mircea_popescu;if it happens, yeah. then again... is it better to have loved and lost sanity than to never have sanitized at all.
1440086;1458834500;kakobrekla;im not too fond of Egyptian style of burial where a bunch of live folk gets sealed in the tomb together with the mummy
1440087;1458834508;kakobrekla;serves very little purpose
1440088;1458834539;mircea_popescu;for whom ?
1440089;1458834547;kakobrekla;anyone
1440090;1458834568;mircea_popescu;romania's all time best ballerina killed herself when her husband died. a lot more common than readily admitted, this.
1440091;1458834574;mircea_popescu;people's purposes are theirs to weigh.
1440092;1458834577;asciilifeform;suti!
1440093;1458834591;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform guy wrote the silver toothed boar thing, and others.
1440094;1458834595;mircea_popescu;very talented poet guy.
1440095;1458834598;asciilifeform;i'm fond of the japanese admirals, myself
1440096;1458834615;asciilifeform;incidentally 'my commander is dead'-seppuku was sop for a while.
1440097;1458834657;asciilifeform;but, i will point out, they also had 'my commander is an arse'-seppuku.
1440098;1458834669;kakobrekla;hehe
1440099;1458834672;mircea_popescu;we're opening way too many historical casks with this thing huh
1440100;1458834679;mircea_popescu;#bitcoin-amontillado
1440101;1458834682;asciilifeform;comes with the territory!11
1440102;1458834693;asciilifeform;'for ze luvvv of gawwwd, monTrezor!!11'
1440103;1458835146;shinohai;Preet is going to save us from Iranian hackers too apparently: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-24/u-s-charges-iranian-hackers-in-wall-street-cyberattacks-im6b43tt
1440104;1458835147;assbot;Iranians Hacked From Wall Street to New York Dam, U.S. Says - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1SjvAmV )
1440105;1458835214;mircea_popescu;is this a redo of the "chinese hackers" fail from a coupla years back, just tried with a smaller power that's not as likely to make them eat their hands ?
1440106;1458835253;mircea_popescu;i suppose they found the proof in saddam's biochem weapons cache or somesuch.
1440107;1458835351;BingoBoingo;Already Qntra'd http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-may-accuse-iran-of-office-computer-infection/
1440108;1458835352;assbot;US May Accuse Iran Of Office Computer Infection | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1SjvThr )
1440109;1458835392;shinohai;^ ah ha!
1440110;1458835917;mircea_popescu;kik \
1440111;1458836055;danielpbarron;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1440018 << no. the way ratings work, since assbot gave everyone only +1, that is the most that can be passed along into its L2. The most a lord can do to another lord is take them down 2 points (if they already had giving them a postive rating and switched it to negative)
1440112;1458836055;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 13:37:36; PeterL: kakobrekla if nubbins` is still in L1, and rage negrates everybody -10, would that keep a bunch of people from self-voicing?
1440113;1458837150;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1440114;1458837156;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.9, vol: 3596.31424340 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 415.499, vol: 4204.68191 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.7, vol: 9303.992626609999 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 0.36 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 418.49933, vol: 26006.15910000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 416.388, vol: 1470.69507641 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 420.4056, vol: 37.3704864 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1440115;1458837158;BingoBoingo;;;more
1440116;1458837158;gribble;417.644532412
1440117;1458838739;PeterL;http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/24/illinois-isnt-pay-damages-for-car-accide << here is one for BingoBoingo
1440118;1458838741;assbot;Have an Accident With a Car Owned by Illinois? You're Out of Luck - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1UdcX7E )
1440119;1458838817;BingoBoingo;PeterL: Not surprising.
1440120;1458840703;shinohai;;;8ball Will serenity return to tmsr ?
1440121;1458840703;gribble;It is so.
1440122;1458840937;PeterL;No, serenity is finished along with the rest of Firefly
1440123;1458841413;asciilifeform;moar lulz: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-23/rockefellers-dump-exxon-holdings-that-made-family-s-fortune
1440124;1458841414;assbot;Rockefellers Dump Exxon Holdings That Made Family's Fortune - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEGVJK )
1440125;1458841684;PeterL;what is bitcoind doing when it flushes wallet.dat?
1440126;1458841711;BingoBoingo;squatting?
1440127;1458842210;mircea_popescu;PeterL bitcoin [still] uses berkleydb which uses a strange sort of self-memory caching, which makes the data saved on disk during functioning insufficient to reconstruct the db situation.
1440128;1458842228;mircea_popescu;when it flushes, it just makes the disk image sufficient.
1440129;1458842271;PeterL;and does it have a reason to flush every 8 minutes (or just a magic number)?
1440130;1458842312;mircea_popescu;this question is extremely hard to answer.
1440131;1458842334;PeterL;does that make it a good question or a bad question?
1440132;1458842360;mircea_popescu;i have nfi
1440133;1458842384;asciilifeform;the answer appears to be block time.
1440134;1458842394;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform blocktime+delta neh ?
1440135;1458842401;asciilifeform;aha
1440136;1458842417;mircea_popescu;it's like you know, "what makes the smoke raise up like smoke". turbulence is complicated, son.
1440137;1458842422;mircea_popescu;do not upset ye gods.
1440138;1458842461;asciilifeform;the db is the single most retarded bit.
1440139;1458842462;PeterL;I thought blocks were 10 minutes?
1440140;1458842498;asciilifeform;PeterL: this is 'bang-bang corrected'
1440141;1458842502;mircea_popescu;^
1440142;1458842568;PeterL;so, the 8 minutes is more like 'about a block time'?
1440143;1458842672;mircea_popescu;somethinglikethat
1440144;1458842674;mircea_popescu;and in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Xl0Qry-hA
1440145;1458842676;assbot;Nancy Sinatra Bang Bang - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1T7YBUW )
1440146;1458844494;deedbot-;[Qntra] Rockefeller Family Fund Divests From Industry That Made Rockefeller Family Fortune - http://qntra.net/2016/03/rockefeller-family-fund-divests-from-industry-that-made-rockefeller-family-fortune/
1440147;1458844534;ben_vulpes;http://www.boredpanda.com/handmade-adult-porcelain-enchanted-doll-marina-bychkova/
1440148;1458844538;assbot;Creepily Realistic NSFW Porcelain Dolls By Russian Artist | Bored Panda ... ( http://bit.ly/1SjLbmi )
1440149;1458850898;mircea_popescu;nice articulation work at any rate.
1440150;1458851084;BingoBoingo;https://i.imgur.com/xioLfYo.jpg
1440151;1458851085;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1WMddZ5 )
1440152;1458851106;ben_vulpes;http://i.imgur.com/ewl8iQF.jpg << the white metallic ink pilot g2's have arrived.
1440153;1458851108;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1WMdivX )
1440154;1458851213;BingoBoingo;Oh, no dickbutt?
1440155;1458851389;mircea_popescu;in other mews, no panties, either. http://40.media.tumblr.com/029a0c810106f9769acccac9b06453c0/tumblr_ng2zns9dF41tkiwgwo1_1280.jpg
1440156;1458851391;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1WMdU4I )
1440157;1458851895;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: pentagrams only.
1440158;1458851905;ben_vulpes;when i get my sigil of lilith down i'll do those too
1440159;1458851945;BingoBoingo;What about a cunch of pentagrams arranged into a dickbutt?
1440160;1458851965;ben_vulpes;talk to trinque about that
1440161;1458851979;ben_vulpes;> cunch
1440162;1458852017;ben_vulpes;related: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/294141419386785316/
1440163;1458852021;assbot;sigil tattoo - Google Search | tattoo | Pinterest | Occult, Symbols and Tattoos and body art ... ( http://bit.ly/1WMfvaG )
1440164;1458853026;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: You know, a cunch. Like a bunch but more pelvic.
1440165;1458855632;punkman;https://github.com/mimoo/Diffie-Hellman_Backdoor
1440166;1458855634;assbot;GitHub - mimoo/Diffie-Hellman_Backdoor: How to backdoor Diffie-Hellman ... ( http://bit.ly/21JuGm0 )
1440167;1458856256;asciilifeform;'The person who pushed the commit is Gerhard Rieger who is the same person who fixed it a year later. In the comment he refers to an Oracle employee at the time who has yet to comment on his mistake. It also seems like his github account and his personnal websites were deleted the day this security advisory was published.
1440168;1458856261;asciilifeform;'
1440169;1458856263;asciilifeform;l0l!!
1440170;1458856409;BingoBoingo;Aha follow up to:
1440171;1458856418;BingoBoingo;;;google site:qntra.net socat
1440172;1458856418;gribble;Oracle Employee Wrecked Socat Security | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2016/02/oracle-employee-wrecked-socat-security/>; Qntra | Reporting the Intersection of Bitcoin, Technology, and Politics: <http://qntra.net/?action=products&cat_id=2>; Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Crosses 144 Billion With 20.06% Rise | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2016/02/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-crosses-144-million- (1 more message)
1440173;1458856456;asciilifeform;i recall this
1440174;1458856460;asciilifeform;but not the github detail
1440175;1458856775;BingoBoingo;Yeah, this github is lulzy, but not sure if news
1440176;1458866753;shinohai;ded
1440177;1458869866;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23580 @ 0.00045109 = 10.6367 BTC [+]
1440178;1458872867;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] PSA: Don’t pay the bitcoin ransom. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/24/psa-dont-pay-the-bitcoin-ransom/
1440179;1458875204;asciilifeform;http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-March/028824.html << lulz
1440180;1458875205;assbot;[Cryptography] On the Impending Crypto Monoculture ... ( http://bit.ly/1VLJT6M )
1440181;1458875224;asciilifeform;'A number of IETF standards groups are currently in the process of applying the second-system effect to redesigning their crypto protocols.  A major feature of these changes includes the dropping of traditional encryption algorithms and mechanisms like RSA, DH, ECDH/ECDSA, SHA-2, and AES, for a completely different set of mechanisms, including Curve25519 (designed by Dan Bernstein et al), EdDSA (Bernstein and colleagues), Poly
1440182;1458875224;asciilifeform;1305 (Bernstein again) and ChaCha20 (by, you guessed it, Bernstein).'
1440183;1458875279;asciilifeform;^ whole thing actually interesting and worth reading.
1440184;1458875652;ben_vulpes;the "not a vote for b, but a vote against everything else" line made me tilt my head.
1440185;1458875697;asciilifeform;'the one-eyed man is king' (tm) (r)
1440186;1458877334;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: ever mess around much with cola/jolt/pepsi/idst/friends?
1440187;1458877384;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: barfed after reading the written materials.
1440188;1458877386;asciilifeform;long ago.
1440189;1458877415;*;asciilifeform quite deeply uninterested in c-os for c-machine.
1440190;1458877438;asciilifeform;or whatever else on c-machine.
1440191;1458877440;ben_vulpes;i hadn't realized it to be an os
1440192;1458877486;asciilifeform;vaguely smalltalkish.
1440193;1458877495;ben_vulpes;mhm.
1440194;1458890546;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00050404 = 14.718 BTC [+]
1440195;1458904821;danielpbarron;https://www.lookhuman.com/design/48274-floral-penis-pattern-blue
1440196;1458904823;assbot;HUMAN - Floral Penis Pattern Blue - Homedecor | Pillow ... ( http://bit.ly/1UQ8NBf )
1440197;1458908358;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00049588 = 10.2647 BTC [-]
1440198;1458911980;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-left-impaired-ai-to-suffer-twitter-humiliation/#comment-49637 lol
1440199;1458911981;assbot;Microsoft Left Impaired AI To Suffer Twitter Humiliation | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/25oghQW )
1440200;1458912280;BingoBoingo;Breaking: Multiple Black people reportedly injured in several police raids, more to come once filtered by Pravda
1440201;1458912368;shinohai;this is microsoft innovationz see
1440202;1458912397;BingoBoingo;Nah, there's prior art, see Vexual
1440203;1458912438;BingoBoingo;;;later tell Vexual I'm sorry I've been ignoring you for months, but I've got to take my sobriety seriously if I want to live
1440204;1458912439;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440205;1458912446;*;shinohai had a dream that Vexual was really TradeFortress and was trolling us all.
1440206;1458912471;BingoBoingo;Vexual doesn't sound asian enough, but who knows
1440207;1458914740;deedbot-;[Qntra] US Animal Suicides Require Motorist Warning - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-animal-suicides-require-motorist-warning/
1440208;1458915190;deedbot-;[Qntra] Verisign Patent Filing Covers Cryptocurrency Signing Scheme - http://qntra.net/2016/03/verisign-patent-filing-covers-cryptocurrency-signing-scheme/
1440209;1458916630;deedbot-;[Qntra] Chicago To 'scape Around Hole - http://qntra.net/2016/03/chicago-to-scape-around-hole/
1440210;1458918068;deedbot-;[Qntra] Small Usenet Provider In France Raided As Terrorists Strike Europe - http://qntra.net/2016/03/small-usenet-provider-in-france-raided-as-terrorists-strike-europe/
1440211;1458919618;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440210 >> 'A France-based Usenet provider says that his service has been raided and shutdown by the police. The 5,000 user 'Newsoo' service appears to have been a labor of love for its owner, but all data is now in the hands of authorities after he was arrested. A long-standing complaint by anti-piracy outfit SACEM appears to have been the trigger.' << what's next, 'last jewish s
1440212;1458919618;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 15:01:08; deedbot-: [Qntra] Small Usenet Provider In France Raided As Terrorists Strike Europe - http://qntra.net/2016/03/small-usenet-provider-in-france-raided-as-terrorists-strike-europe/
1440213;1458919618;asciilifeform;htetl in poland burned' ???
1440214;1458919716;BingoBoingo;Well, if burned by police while EU capital is under assault
1440215;1458919900;asciilifeform;cattle being slaughtered is a-ok. cattle sharing 133337 w4r3z!111111?!
1440216;1458920116;*;asciilifeform had nfi there were any shtetl^H^H^H^H^H^Husenet isps left to burn
1440217;1458922554;mats;650tb, nice
1440218;1458924214;asciilifeform;http://www.qlforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=321 << l0ltr0n1c, strictly for aficionados:
1440219;1458924216;assbot;The QL Forum • View topic - Native 68k vs Coldfire vs FPGA vs recompilation ? ... ( http://bit.ly/22KRK6t )
1440220;1458924225;asciilifeform;'n the first ARM project I did, based on a TMS ARM M3 implementation, we found 2 bugs in the CPU and 4 in the GPU. These will actually never be corrected - the chips have already been declared obsolete, and new ones are out, with their own bugs. Sometimes the very implementation is asking for it - the last ARM-based MPU I used could easily be set to have memory cycles that end before they even start, completely needles and idi
1440221;1458924225;asciilifeform;otic lack of thinking on the developer's part, because it does not get trapped by the in-circuit development hardware, but instead crashes the core... so out comes the 20-year old trusted Tektronix scope. So much for advanced development tools.'
1440222;1458924290;BingoBoingo;!up PaulCapestany
1440223;1458924293;BingoBoingo;lol asciilifeform
1440224;1458924328;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i've been looking for the mythical beast of 'who still makes mc68k' for many years
1440225;1458924335;asciilifeform;(answer: nobody)
1440226;1458924348;BingoBoingo;That's the same conclusion I've had to reach
1440227;1458924351;PaulCapestany;BingoBoingo hello
1440228;1458924358;BingoBoingo;hello PaulCapestany
1440229;1458924379;PaulCapestany;BingoBoingo what's up
1440230;1458924391;BingoBoingo;Not all that much
1440231;1458924394;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: well, not quite nobody, i did find a single solitary factory still making'em, $10 in qty 100+
1440232;1458924440;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it is part of my 'find the oldest silicon that could, potentially, bitcoinate in real time' thing.
1440233;1458924447;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: But do these new ones process a bitcoin block in under 10 minutes?
1440234;1458924476;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: block verification parallelizes to infinity
1440235;1458924485;asciilifeform;the question becomes, ~how many~ of them.
1440236;1458924495;BingoBoingo;aha
1440237;1458924505;BingoBoingo;!Up da2ce7
1440238;1458925011;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: https://octopart.com/mc68sec000aa16-freescale+semiconductor-488908
1440239;1458925013;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/22KTnB2 )
1440240;1458925023;asciilifeform;^ the last remaining, afaik ^
1440241;1458925041;asciilifeform;same part as found in ti-92 calculator, circa mid-90s
1440242;1458925059;asciilifeform;http://www.datamath.org/Graphing/Images/TI-92_PLUS_CPU.jpg
1440243;1458925061;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/22KTtbN )
1440244;1458925093;asciilifeform;freescale co. bought the rights long ago
1440245;1458925127;PaulCapestany;BingoBoingo how does a L1 bitcoin-assets n00b like myself level-up to L2? (was looking on wiki, but haven't come across an explanation yet..)
1440246;1458925386;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: obligatory >> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ld-jhkg3I34/T1hQ58wY5wI/AAAAAAAAEHA/OQ0LTKJDnnE/s1600/2012-03-07%2B22.24.59.jpg
1440247;1458925388;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1MpW4nE )
1440248;1458925517;asciilifeform;PaulCapestany: one 'levels up', if at all, ~from~ l2 to l1.
1440249;1458925540;asciilifeform;!gettrust PaulCapestany
1440250;1458925541;assbot;Trust relationship from user asciilifeform to user PaulCapestany: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=PaulCapestany | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/PaulCapestany/
1440251;1458925542;PaulCapestany;asciilifeform ah, gotcha
1440252;1458925587;PaulCapestany;asciilifeform ooo.. thx (i think? heh)
1440253;1458925607;asciilifeform;PaulCapestany: click the link, you will understand what is meant here
1440254;1458925615;PaulCapestany;asciilifeform yeah I'm lookin
1440255;1458925965;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Aha, I've got one of those
1440256;1458926027;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Just don't have anything that runs 'top' on it yet to my knowledge
1440257;1458926242;BingoBoingo;!up PaulCapestany
1440258;1458926279;BingoBoingo;PaulCapestany: A good place to start would be !upping yourself
1440259;1458926303;PaulCapestany;!up PaulCapestany
1440260;1458926331;PaulCapestany;that's not what you meant I take it
1440261;1458926339;PaulCapestany;still reading about WoT
1440262;1458926369;shinohai;!rate nubbins` -10 I'll wear this as a badge of honour from a person too cowardly to negrate me in logs.
1440263;1458926370;assbot;Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/7f7ce4e6b8c6b7d5
1440264;1458926440;shinohai;!v assbot:shinohai.rate.nubbins`.-10:5417e802cf552217b0d3e0b7aba06e484814858f4cc1d6c3b129cd2bda92beef
1440265;1458926440;assbot;Successfully added a rating of -10 for nubbins` with note: I'll wear this as a badge of honour from a person too cowardly to negrate me in logs.
1440266;1458926469;PaulCapestany;BingoBoingo so I can !up myself via msg to assbot I see.. got it
1440267;1458926854;BingoBoingo;PaulCapestany: I forget, what dustup were you notable for?
1440268;1458926866;PaulCapestany;BingoBoingo hahah
1440269;1458926904;PaulCapestany;"threatening" Bitcoin Classic "team"
1440270;1458927010;PaulCapestany;the "reporter" got stuff wrong, but I thought it was cute that it got posted on news.bitcoin.com → https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-classic-developers-receiving-threats-rbitcoin-mods/
1440271;1458927012;assbot;Are Bitcoin Classic Developers Receiving Threats from /r/Bitcoin Mods? - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1MpZ438 )
1440272;1458927426;BingoBoingo;What did you threaten to take Marshmallow Long's donuts?
1440273;1458927479;PaulCapestany;hahah
1440274;1458927581;shinohai;isn't news.bitcoin.com a VERified site?
1440275;1458927626;BingoBoingo;You mean Ether huffing VERified site http://qntra.net/2016/03/roger-verified-outlet-gets-into-ether-huffing/
1440276;1458927627;assbot;Roger VERified Outlet Gets Into Ether Huffing | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RrI1Nn )
1440277;1458927695;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00049785 = 13.442 BTC [+]
1440278;1458927727;shinohai;I ask myself every day why fate has not allowed us the pleasure of fireworks blowing Roger Ver's balls off.
1440279;1458927875;BingoBoingo;The USG saved him from that fate
1440280;1458928046;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440256 << i also have one, they cost pennies in surplus shops. but i use it for its original purpose; it makes a poor linux box, no usable i/o.
1440281;1458928046;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 17:13:47; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Just don't have anything that runs 'top' on it yet to my knowledge
1440282;1458928079;BingoBoingo;It's got the jack on it for i/o
1440283;1458928082;asciilifeform;it has the external jack, you can get 300 baud iirc.
1440284;1458928107;asciilifeform;but no way to attach mass storage etc
1440285;1458928205;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440262 << aha l0l he silently -'d me also, without even a creative annotation
1440286;1458928205;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 17:19:29; shinohai: !rate nubbins` -10 I'll wear this as a badge of honour from a person too cowardly to negrate me in logs.
1440287;1458928276;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440270 << i find myself less and less interested in what happens in the heathen worlds.
1440288;1458928276;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 17:30:10; PaulCapestany: the "reporter" got stuff wrong, but I thought it was cute that it got posted on news.bitcoin.com → https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-classic-developers-receiving-threats-rbitcoin-mods/
1440289;1458928323;asciilifeform;i care about wars between reddits about as much as i care about the competing anthills in the forest.
1440290;1458928432;PaulCapestany;asciilifeform reddit wars are dumb, agreed, but I got concerned when people like Rick Falkvinge were starting to post on r/bitcoin about how Bitcoin Classic was a good idea.. the misinformation and propaganda that had been going on seemed to have worked on some people
1440291;1458928467;asciilifeform;!s falkvinge
1440292;1458928467;assbot;11 results for 'falkvinge' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=falkvinge
1440293;1458928521;danielpbarron;pirate party guy?
1440294;1458928528;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-01-2016#1375419 << known lolcow
1440295;1458928528;assbot;Logged on 18-01-2016 18:06:37; punkman: lol Falkvinge, "If there's no profit to be made in using bitcoin as a drop-in replacement for credit card payments, bitcoin will not be deployed at scale. Deployment and outcompeting legacy systems depend entirely on merchant financial gains from rollout."
1440296;1458928540;PaulCapestany;danielpbarron yeah
1440297;1458928579;PaulCapestany;danielpbarron falkvinge has lotsa followers, and is supposed to be pro decentralization...
1440298;1458928648;danielpbarron;there's relevant Eulora spash text : the worst thing you can wish on your enemy is that he gets lots of followers (or something like that, I'm paraphrasing)
1440299;1458929146;PaulCapestany;people in here are generally anti-Classic I presume? would my supposed threat against Classic earn me any street cred (or WoT cred) here?
1440300;1458930305;BingoBoingo;<PaulCapestany> people in here are generally anti-Classic I presume? would my supposed threat against Classic earn me any street cred (or WoT cred) here? << anti-Classic, anti-"Core" etc
1440301;1458930405;PaulCapestany;BingoBoingo ah, yeah, ya'll have your own sorta stripped-down fork, correct? if I wanted to read up on the reasoning behind that, what'd be a good link?
1440302;1458930417;BingoBoingo;thebitcoin.foundation
1440303;1458930428;PaulCapestany;thx
1440304;1458930463;BingoBoingo;And it isn't so much a fork as... "historical artifact conveying truth" (TM)(R)
1440305;1458930470;PaulCapestany;heh
1440306;1458930669;mircea_popescu;PaulCapestany your what ?
1440307;1458930694;PaulCapestany;mircea_popescu ?
1440308;1458930699;mircea_popescu;and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/dbd560e399f2fcac62c14ed4d672bc22/tumblr_nbnan2prwQ1tj17cio1_1280.jpg
1440309;1458930703;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1q6ddJ2 )
1440310;1458930713;mircea_popescu;PaulCapestany " would my supposed threat against Classic earn me any street cred (or WoT cred) here?" << link, something ?
1440311;1458930731;PaulCapestany;mircea_popescu https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-classic-developers-receiving-threats-rbitcoin-mods/
1440312;1458930734;assbot;Are Bitcoin Classic Developers Receiving Threats from /r/Bitcoin Mods? - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1MpZ438 )
1440313;1458930759;mircea_popescu;lmao. so reddit is copying me on the quiet, forgets to link anything and is all "hey, we're cool" ?
1440314;1458930813;PaulCapestany;copying you?
1440315;1458930831;PaulCapestany;(p.s. I'm not a r/Bitcoin mod)
1440316;1458930934;mircea_popescu;what's the relation then ?
1440317;1458931014;mircea_popescu;all i see in that title is http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/ re-done by lesser people who aim to avoid confronting their ulterior inferiority through lalala.
1440318;1458931015;assbot;There's a one Bitcoin reward for the death of Pieter Wuille. Details below. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1lxiG9S )
1440319;1458931023;PaulCapestany;that was just shitty "reporting" in the case of the article... I'm not a r/bitcoin mod, but I guess my 'claim to fame' was that I was co-organizer of a big bitcoin developer meetup in SF
1440320;1458931028;mircea_popescu;and yes i imagine there's some cred to be had for doing that, but only in america.
1440321;1458931036;PaulCapestany;ha
1440322;1458931050;mircea_popescu;well, if anyone here went to the thing that you organized and liked it, they might rate you, sure.
1440323;1458931153;mircea_popescu;otherwise, the bar for "conference organizer" as an identity pillar includes tits & gtfo and so on. it's a job dita von teese gets cred for, typically.
1440324;1458931193;PaulCapestany;fair enough ;)
1440325;1458931681;mircea_popescu;anyway. lulz at the entire "we'll talk about things in the vague and be all pretentious and shit" junior high ugly girl club thing. i'm so impressed i almost think the whole prb/mit/blabla crowd of shitheads is worth pissing on.
1440326;1458931753;mircea_popescu;and with that, off to have drinks
1440327;1458931783;*;shinohai cheers mircea_popescu
1440328;1458932509;ben_vulpes;does anyone remember a story about a last-minute us presidential candidacy that was run on highly personally target emails?
1440329;1458936228;pete_dushenski;;;nethash
1440330;1458936228;gribble;1212308843.07
1440331;1458937201;pete_dushenski;jurov: http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/24/psa-dont-pay-the-bitcoin-ransom/#comment-42189
1440332;1458937203;assbot;PSA: Don’t pay the bitcoin ransom. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1UhWcs2 )
1440333;1458937670;pete_dushenski;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439781 << hm ?
1440334;1458937670;assbot;Logged on 24-03-2016 00:28:16; ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.pete_dushenski.1:32d4e07d5e4f0c2c482c2232734c5fefb5d97343fb690b93c90e378d62869594
1440335;1458937748;pete_dushenski;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Weeaboo << til
1440336;1458937749;assbot;Urban Dictionary: Weeaboo ... ( http://bit.ly/1UhXrHC )
1440337;1458937807;jurov;pete_dushenski: i did sell some btc to be paid to cryptolocker and there was an admin
1440338;1458937863;jurov;but he complained he proposed to install seafile server (which I shown him to exist) that would work nicely with their windows boxes
1440339;1458937878;jurov;but they did not want to pay for the work
1440340;1458937886;pete_dushenski;nuts eh
1440341;1458937928;pete_dushenski;i've also sold btc to 'it professional' who had client with cryptolocker. this was ~2 years ago though and i haven't heard any reports of a second or third hit.
1440342;1458937965;pete_dushenski;though i have a tough time imagining that anything in terms of digital security has changed with either that client or his 'professional' since.
1440343;1458937992;pete_dushenski;why no more hits ? goodness only knows.
1440344;1458938013;pete_dushenski;'who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men' (tm) (r)
1440345;1458938022;jurov;there are enough targets
1440346;1458938036;pete_dushenski;but other targets might not pay is the thing
1440347;1458938054;pete_dushenski;once one target has coughed up danegeld, surely they'll continue
1440348;1458938101;jurov;also, it's not "windows" thing. plenty of linux servers were backdoored, but there it's more profitable/convenient to resell the server resources that to extort the admin
1440349;1458938166;jurov;*than to
1440350;1458938218;pete_dushenski;wait, so hackers backdoor linux server and resell hosting on it, unbeknownst to the 'owner' of the box ?
1440351;1458938248;jurov;yes, usually they "host" malware there
1440352;1458938268;jurov;but server with good pipe has million uses
1440353;1458938290;pete_dushenski;aha. anyways, for casinos specifically, it ~is~ a windows thing. at least for the operations around here.
1440354;1458938325;pete_dushenski;their portable machines run windows ce even
1440355;1458938504;jurov;you see - they are used to pay for licenses. whether to m$ or to extortionist, makes a little difference
1440356;1458938692;jurov;hm, that makes me wonder how many businesses are paying for such "protection" every month already
1440357;1458938870;pete_dushenski;in most of the world, most. whether it's greasing the local mob or the local bureaucrat makes little practical difference. it's the way of the world.
1440358;1458938890;pete_dushenski;this 'protection'/extortion business model could be just the gravity well extractor that guys like asciilifeform need. it can even be done from laptop on beach!
1440359;1458938909;jurov;but if your mobster has access to *all* your data and communication... that's another level
1440360;1458938973;jurov;asciilifeform explicitly rejects anything he'd have to pay taxes from, that's lost cause
1440361;1458939031;jurov;his professed utter inability to function as mobster aside
1440362;1458939089;pete_dushenski;it's a craft, like any other.
1440363;1458939277;pete_dushenski;speaking of walls, http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/18/story-of-cities-5-benin-city-edo-nigeria-mighty-medieval-capital-lost-without-trace
1440364;1458939279;assbot;Story of cities #5: Benin City, the mighty medieval capital now lost without trace | Cities | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ui1xQ3 )
1440365;1458939291;pete_dushenski;"Situated on a plain, Benin City was enclosed by massive walls in the south and deep ditches in the north. Beyond the city walls, numerous further walls were erected that separated the surroundings of the capital into around 500 distinct villages.
1440366;1458939291;pete_dushenski;Pearce writes that these walls “extended for some 16,000 km in all, in a mosaic of more than 500 interconnected settlement boundaries. They covered 6,500 sq km and were all dug by the Edo people … They took an estimated 150 million hours of digging to construct, and are perhaps the largest single archaeological phenomenon on the planet”."
1440367;1458939697;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Check your pending comments
1440368;1458939742;pete_dushenski;it's live ?
1440369;1458939795;BingoBoingo;Oh, ty
1440370;1458939807;BingoBoingo;must have loaded before poasted
1440371;1458939852;pete_dushenski;heh what's the backstory behind 'lunix' ?
1440372;1458940055;BingoBoingo;Oh, it's just what Ubuntu is, see https://i.sli.mg/uga6Y7.png calves could not pass A4 challenge because drepper
1440373;1458940058;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqMj5l )
1440374;1458940397;pete_dushenski;'lunix' also has etymology of 'luna', which maps well to those same fat-ass proportions
1440375;1458940582;phf;pete_dushenski: lunix is of course jeff k tradition, and there's not much to it, besides arbitrary switching letters, but it helps that the result sounds durp
1440376;1458940627;phf;i.e. I RUN LUNIX IS 1337 H4X0R I H4CK UUUU~~11
1440377;1458940701;phf;i dunno if there's acceptable usage at this point, since the jeff k culture is long dead, in waves and waves and waves of eternal september
1440378;1458940794;phf;(jeff k is of course a something awful spoof of a teenage script kiddie culture of late 90s, that in turn spun off 4chan culture. old fags remember, that early /b/ was essentially a bunch of snarky mofos pretending to be jeff k style idiots, which in turn eternally september into actual idiots acting like idiots, etc)
1440379;1458940833;BingoBoingo;dayum, phf dropping the history bomb
1440380;1458942030;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00049784 = 10.2306 BTC [-] {2} 
1440381;1458942037;pete_dushenski;https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/britains-flat-idea-to-tax-soda-and-other-sugary-drinks/2016/03/21/186e3ad0-efa1-11e5-89c3-a647fcce95e0_story.html << fattaxtalk for BingoBoingo
1440382;1458942038;assbot;Britain’s flat idea to tax soda and other sugary drinks - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1URkg3v )
1440383;1458942058;BingoBoingo;Obesity doesn
1440384;1458942064;BingoBoingo;'t justify taxation
1440385;1458942080;BingoBoingo;It however jusitfies estherification and Biodiesel
1440386;1458942222;BingoBoingo;!up cazalla_
1440387;1458942236;cazalla_;ty BingoBoingo (cbf getting out the laptop right now)
1440388;1458942263;cazalla_;as for soda (fizzy drink tax), nfi about the UK, but that consumption of that has been on the decline here for years
1440389;1458942286;cazalla_;i imagine obesity is more the result of icecream for breakfast than occasional coke
1440390;1458942398;jurov;i knew people who drank liter or two of coke daily
1440391;1458942424;BingoBoingo;The idiocracy guy was wrong here in the states. In future 'Murica carbonation will be "what plants crave"
1440392;1458942461;pete_dushenski;cazalla_: better ice cream for breakfast than at midnight
1440393;1458942502;cazalla_;jurov sure, but how common is that today? for example, coca cola amatil (aussie coke listed company) expanded into indonesia and it has been a disaster, no-one wants their shit
1440394;1458942568;jurov;dunno about indonesia, in eastern europe very common. even my dad can't be convinced not to buy it
1440395;1458942634;pete_dushenski;bucharesti kid i know, bout my age, drinks 2l of coke per day. smokes pretty heavily too.
1440396;1458942657;pete_dushenski;this is only seen in lower class canadians but is apparently perfectly reasonable in middle class romanians
1440397;1458942679;jurov;cazalla_ is prolly surrounded by health-minded canucks.. but the cocacola revenue must have come from somewhere
1440398;1458942692;BingoBoingo;jurov: Here I don't know that fountain sodas under a liter are sold anywhere
1440399;1458942699;cazalla_;don't see how teh tax will change anything anyway, consumers will just pay it as no other option (sif they're gonna drink water)
1440400;1458942747;jurov;they will switch to *blergh* sweeteners
1440401;1458942801;cazalla_;i bought a stevia plant last year, not bad to nom nom on a few leaves when wanting something sugary
1440402;1458942897;jurov;yes i like stevia too.. but for someone who is used to high sugar concentrations, stevia has unsavory taste
1440403;1458942924;jurov;- good only if you want to sweeten a bit
1440404;1458944104;BingoBoingo;!up cazalla_
1440405;1458945446;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00049766 = 4.8771 BTC [-]
1440406;1458946483;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00049766 = 8.9081 BTC [-]
1440407;1458946544;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63000 @ 0.00049626 = 31.2644 BTC [-] {2} 
1440408;1458946605;assbot;[MPEX] [S.NSA] 50000 @ 0.0000825 = 4.125 BTC [+]
1440409;1458947081;danielpbarron;!up gloubiboulga
1440410;1458947192;pete_dushenski;https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fzU5NsS9o4g/VvU06FxOnWI/AAAAAAAAlBc/FzEa6Q6b03IvtCfWpsNUOkZG-SoxhBmzQ/s1600/IMG_0775.JPG << rock n roll medvedev
1440411;1458947193;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1UijVYQ )
1440412;1458949886;pete_dushenski;http://transmash-omsk.ru/node/690 << for armoured fire truck afficionados
1440413;1458949887;assbot;Первые серийные образцы СПМ отправились к заказчику | ОАО Омсктрансмаш ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rr4iZs )
1440414;1458951103;kakobrekla;!s odroid
1440415;1458951103;assbot;3 results for 'odroid' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=odroid
1440416;1458953065;mats;http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/24/veteran-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-outside
1440417;1458953066;assbot;Veteran dies after setting himself on fire outside New Jersey VA clinic - Washington Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1MHKTS2 )
1440418;1458957518;mike_c;well, glad to see I didn't miss much recently :D
1440419;1458957903;ben_vulpes;mike_c!
1440420;1458957911;mike_c;good evening
1440421;1458957920;ben_vulpes;bon soir
1440422;1458958099;mike_c;<ben_vulpes>   ;;later tell mike_c does your wot thinger spit out json anywhere?
1440423;1458958110;mike_c;no - it seemed too duplicative of http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/kakobrekla/json
1440424;1458958111;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsUvo1 )
1440425;1458958171;ben_vulpes;heh man i don't even recall the context for that question offhand
1440426;1458958178;mike_c;:)
1440427;1458958179;ben_vulpes;you're probably digging out from under months of ;;later's
1440428;1458958216;mike_c;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-01-2016#1370146
1440429;1458958216;assbot;Logged on 14-01-2016 15:11:05; mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c here's a thought, in http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/ might be a good idea to hide users not seen in i dunno, a quarter ? a year ? something ? explained, and with link for "full list".
1440430;1458958230;mike_c;that's a good idea, filters for the list
1440431;1458959793;BingoBoingo;Welcome back mike_c! How's IRL been?
1440432;1458959809;mike_c;busy!  new job + new kid pretty well killed me
1440433;1458959844;mike_c;but new job is settling in (as is new kid)
1440434;1458959863;mike_c;I was thinking about you BingoBoingo when Rubio quit
1440435;1458959878;mike_c;your wager lasted longer than mine, which died with Jeb
1440436;1458959905;danielpbarron;a lot of stuff died with Jeb
1440437;1458959936;ben_vulpes;;;later tell pete_dushenski what, the numbers mean something now?
1440438;1458959937;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440439;1458959957;BingoBoingo;Thank you. I dunno what all you kept up with, but if you missed it I sobered up. And of course all sorts of other goings have been on.
1440440;1458959974;ben_vulpes;Version: 'p' sqrt(etotheipi, give or take a kelvin) << adlaii re-found this amusing
1440441;1458959991;ben_vulpes;;;later tell adlai "adlai i"
1440442;1458959992;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440443;1458959998;mike_c;Congrats and good luck.
1440444;1458960157;BingoBoingo;;;ticker --market all
1440445;1458960163;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.91, vol: 2510.39185521 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 416.038, vol: 4337.57516 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 418.0, vol: 4111.54610448 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 1.26248667 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.77007, vol: 21018.64610000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.56, vol: 1029.46498739 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 419.595948, vol: 22.42642754 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1440446;1458960166;BingoBoingo;;;more
1440447;1458960167;gribble;418.697377592
1440448;1458962504;mike_c;last seen filters added - http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/
1440449;1458962505;assbot;WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/231wU3S )
1440450;1458962524;mike_c;defaults to last 6 months.  because you know, sometimes someone worthwhile disappears for 4 months.
1440451;1458962654;mike_c;Time for bed.  I'll be around again now.
1440452;1458962675;ben_vulpes;wb mike_c
1440453;1458962680;mike_c;thanks!
1440454;1458962867;BingoBoingo;gold from the mines https://archive.is/BUBEr
1440455;1458963248;asciilifeform;wb mike_c !
1440456;1458963297;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440355 << aha!
1440457;1458963297;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 20:41:44; jurov: you see - they are used to pay for licenses. whether to m$ or to extortionist, makes a little difference
1440458;1458963404;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440358 << i wonder why pete_dushenski did not likewise suggest spamming. it has exactly the same 'hollywood tournament market' profit distribution. ftr i was a malware hunter and exterminator for some years. 99+% of ransomware artists made ~0.
1440459;1458963404;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 20:48:10; pete_dushenski: this 'protection'/extortion business model could be just the gravity well extractor that guys like asciilifeform need. it can even be done from laptop on beach!
1440460;1458963441;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55650 @ 0.00049429 = 27.5072 BTC [-]
1440461;1458963496;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440385 << what's estherification ?
1440462;1458963496;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 21:41:20; BingoBoingo: It however jusitfies estherification and Biodiesel
1440463;1458963516;asciilifeform;danielpbarron or other biblical scholar wants to answer this riddle ^ ?
1440464;1458963539;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's what you do to biologically sourced oils to make them a functional diesel
1440465;1458963545;asciilifeform;esterification
1440466;1458963550;BingoBoingo;Aha
1440467;1458963559;BingoBoingo;But that to a person
1440468;1458963630;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440394 << i remember my first taste of the stuff, a distant relative brought in a bottle (the old-school glass kind, with the trademarked shape) -- 'it is like eating a hive of bees'
1440469;1458963630;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 21:49:28; jurov: dunno about indonesia, in eastern europe very common. even my dad can't be convinced not to buy it
1440470;1458963633;BingoBoingo;The extra h turns it into a recognizable people name
1440471;1458963680;mod6;mike_c!
1440472;1458963729;mod6;<+mike_c> Time for bed.  I'll be around again now. << cool, man.  talk to you tomorrow
1440473;1458963746;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2016#1440412 << according to link, 'for extinguishing conflagrations at arsenals and storehouses of explosive materials'
1440474;1458963746;assbot;Logged on 25-03-2016 23:51:26; pete_dushenski: http://transmash-omsk.ru/node/690 << for armoured fire truck afficionados
1440475;1458964010;danielpbarron;heh, i accidentally named a computer 'ester' when I meant to name it 'esther'
1440476;1458964081;*;ben_vulpes makes a note to name the next box lilith
1440477;1458964905;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24444 @ 0.00049879 = 12.1924 BTC [+]
1440478;1458965027;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17450 @ 0.00050017 = 8.728 BTC [+]
1440479;1458967162;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24706 @ 0.00049879 = 12.3231 BTC [-]
1440480;1458974357;davout;;;later tell mike_c wb and congratulations for the new kid (and job)!
1440481;1458974357;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440482;1458985645;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4165 @ 0.00049076 = 2.044 BTC [-]
1440483;1459003701;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00049221 = 8.1953 BTC [+]
1440484;1459015353;asciilifeform;l0l, where's everyone... moved to #nubz?
1440485;1459016050;BingoBoingo;lol
1440486;1459017254;BingoBoingo;Seems to be a quiet time in general, dunno if a good or bad thing
1440487;1459018533;mats;cookin on three burners
1440488;1459018586;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.000495 = 2.5988 BTC [+]
1440489;1459018647;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00049537 = 1.2137 BTC [+]
1440490;1459019180;ben_vulpes;keeping my two cents in the tattoo jar
1440491;1459019928;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9018 @ 0.00049473 = 4.4615 BTC [-]
1440492;1459019989;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2882 @ 0.00049076 = 1.4144 BTC [-]
1440493;1459020318;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/02P2ADT.txt
1440494;1459020319;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ms9tvh )
1440495;1459020319;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440496;1459020534;asciilifeform;;;later tell mircea_popescu nm re: (b) but still puzzled re: (a)
1440497;1459020535;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440498;1459021889;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2016/03/new-mbr-infecting-ransomware-petya-found-in-the-wild/
1440499;1459021891;assbot;New MBR Infecting Ransomware 'Petya' Found In The Wild | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1MsbSWM )
1440500;1459023710;assbot;[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 970 @ 0.00202 = 1.9594 BTC [-] {2} 
1440501;1459025356;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-03-2016#1440487   <<< /me is cooking over charcoal fire tonight, replacing burners on stove Monday.
1440502;1459025356;assbot;Logged on 26-03-2016 18:55:33; mats: cookin on three burners
1440503;1459025508;mats;https://soundcloud.com/larryfisherman/5-foot-assassin-larry-fisherman-tribute
1440504;1459025509;assbot;5 Foot Assassin: Larry Fisherman Tribute by Larry Fisherman | Free Listening on SoundCloud ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGlpMh )
1440505;1459026530;shinohai;Listening to qntra using festival is lolzworthy
1440506;1459026848;BingoBoingo;Oh?
1440507;1459028815;shinohai;links -dump http://qntra.net | festival --tts
1440508;1459028816;assbot;Qntra | Reporting the Intersection of Bitcoin, Technology, and Politics ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZEFpPs )
1440509;1459029047;BingoBoingo;what is festival?
1440510;1459029737;mats;looks like a text to speech thing
1440511;1459032616;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00049537 = 11.3935 BTC [+]
1440512;1459040058;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23793 @ 0.00049289 = 11.7273 BTC [-]
1440513;1459044703;BingoBoingo;!up noids252
1440514;1459044818;noids252;;;ticker --market all
1440515;1459044824;gribble;Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.07, vol: 1127.86734451 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 415.957, vol: 3390.91455 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.15, vol: 3355.91896023 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 0.7070119 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 418.49012, vol: 14470.56840000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.31, vol: 857.98623813 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 420.9205, vol: 5.81829489 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
1440516;1459045055;BingoBoingo;;;more noids252
1440517;1459045056;gribble;417.621161971
1440518;1459045189;ben_vulpes;http://dream-job.shithouse.tv/
1440519;1459045190;assbot;dream-job ... ( http://bit.ly/1WRjqDb )
1440520;1459051229;ben_vulpes;holy shit does browser positioning fail to respect the right hand rule?
1440521;1459051522;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2016#1440518 << wut?!
1440522;1459051522;assbot;Logged on 27-03-2016 02:19:49; ben_vulpes: http://dream-job.shithouse.tv/
1440523;1459051638;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i'd certainly rather feed racoons with food taped to my body than figure out how to position elements relative to each other
1440524;1459051666;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i would rather feed racoon with own meat.
1440525;1459051691;asciilifeform;than take any part in wwwistic miseries.
1440526;1459051799;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: What about just positioning them relative enough?
1440527;1459067529;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: can you speak to why ada's usgenesis shouldn't set off klaxons?
1440528;1459067569;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54950 @ 0.00049305 = 27.0931 BTC [+] {2} 
1440529;1459071627;davout;;;later tell kakobrekla http://dpaste.com/1YPJKPS.txt
1440530;1459071629;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1SnVVjG )
1440531;1459071629;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440532;1459073323;shinohai;> tfw 24 hours of logs fits in a single screen now.
1440533;1459073452;asciilifeform;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2016#1440527 << because motherfucking 1980?? or if you prefer, because it's an ancient gcc frontend? or, if neither satisfies, because its the only compiled lang with knobs to ease binary auditing?
1440534;1459073452;assbot;Logged on 27-03-2016 08:32:09; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can you speak to why ada's usgenesis shouldn't set off klaxons?
1440535;1459073751;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: ada sucks in 1,001 ways, but unlike every other known non-c, introduction of mystery meat layer between the source semantics and resulting binary is not one f them. which unfortunately makes it the ~only~ sane choice for critical realtime system.
1440536;1459073830;asciilifeform;(i considered and rejected ml and haskell for this reason. go and explain how they work! can spend a fucking career on that. ick)
1440537;1459073985;asciilifeform;(the other choice, if trying to escape from ada, is to ditch the c-machine silicon, but i just checked my sofa cushion and still did not find a spare $10m in it with which to do this.)
1440538;1459074242;asciilifeform;incidentally, gnat is actually written in ada. and is quite readable... (in as much as such a thing can be called readable)
1440539;1459074331;asciilifeform;i've been struggling with my gag reflex for > year now, the language is pascal-ugly. but ~there is no sane alternative~ known.
1440540;1459074489;asciilifeform;because items like 'no overflows, fuck off', 'standard and rationale books', 'i can compile this by hand', or 'i can saw the binary open in ida and it is pretty clear what chunk of asm corresponds to what line of src' are NOT NEGOTIABLE.
1440541;1459075001;asciilifeform;the ~total unavailability of derplibraries (~no open-sores 'ecosystem') in ada land also has a cleansing effect.
1440542;1459075089;asciilifeform;sorta what common lisp looked like circa 2000 or so.
1440543;1459075160;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2016#1440538   <<<  spoke briefly to mod6 about gnat, still trying to wrap head around ada
1440544;1459075160;assbot;Logged on 27-03-2016 10:24:02; asciilifeform: incidentally, gnat is actually written in ada. and is quite readable... (in as much as such a thing can be called readable)
1440545;1459075172;asciilifeform;no 'aggressive mayogendered' as far as the yes can see...!
1440546;1459075181;asciilifeform;*eyes
1440547;1459075205;asciilifeform;shinohai: it's a misery, i must warn.
1440548;1459075288;asciilifeform;using the language really feels like 'penance' for lifetime of bug-creation in c/cpp
1440549;1459075318;asciilifeform;it is aggressively programmer-hostile in 1,001 ways
1440550;1459075353;asciilifeform;no 'cleverness' permitted.
1440551;1459075363;asciilifeform;!s idiomatic c
1440552;1459075364;assbot;4 results for 'idiomatic c' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=idiomatic+c
1440553;1459075397;asciilifeform;antidote to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384565 .
1440554;1459075397;assbot;Logged on 24-01-2016 23:06:37; jurov: "idiomatic C"
1440555;1459075489;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes et al: believe, if i had another, tastier antidote, i would say. but until then, we will drink this castor.
1440556;1459075496;shinohai;"JGNAT is a version compiled from the Ada programming language to Java bytecode." <<< srsly?
1440557;1459075510;asciilifeform;shinohai: nfi.
1440558;1459075522;asciilifeform;never even heard of such.
1440559;1459075567;asciilifeform;i vaguely recall a dark age jvm backend for gcc, perhaps it turned into this.
1440560;1459075590;shinohai;That looks gross, no thanks.
1440561;1459075646;asciilifeform;anyway who exactly frces you to use weird backend.
1440562;1459075678;asciilifeform;jvm dun exist on my planet.
1440563;1459076052;asciilifeform;on a happy note, appreciate how much ~aggressive sanity~ is baked into ada. it is routine, for example, to program ~without a heap~ !
1440564;1459076074;asciilifeform;as in, motherfucking constant-space.
1440565;1459076191;asciilifeform;(you ~can~ use heap. but its presence is not presupposed by the language constructs.)
1440566;1459078215;mats;lol penance
1440567;1459078229;mats;the masochism is real
1440568;1459078270;mats;(fwiw, got 95 rationale and ref manual in the mail yesterday)
1440569;1459079770;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00049321 = 13.7606 BTC [+]
1440570;1459084222;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00049321 = 5.9925 BTC [+]
1440571;1459091603;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8180 @ 0.00049321 = 4.0345 BTC [+]
1440572;1459093163;oglafbot;http://oglaf.com/ron-returns/
1440573;1459093164;assbot;Ranger Ron Returns! ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmxJ2g )
1440574;1459093881;asciilifeform;deedbot awol?
1440575;1459093945;BingoBoingo;appears so
1440576;1459094103;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2016/young-educated-urban-anglophone-male << l0ltr0nic
1440577;1459094105;assbot;Young Educated Urban Anglophone Male. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmyCrq )
1440578;1459094516;asciilifeform;'The benefits he has derived from his collegiate experience have been strictly formal, and of no further substance.' << i thought mircea_popescu knew that the usaschwitz 'college racket' has ~0 to do with education, but rather is the only usg-permitted iq test (roughly what grade school was once used for)
1440579;1459094548;asciilifeform;!s griggs
1440580;1459094548;assbot;6 results for 'griggs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=griggs
1440581;1459094577;asciilifeform;^ reqd reading
1440582;1459094722;BingoBoingo;http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-work-truck-say-about-you/
1440583;1459094725;assbot;What Does Your Work Truck Say About You? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rmz9tI )
1440584;1459095159;asciilifeform;http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/drillpress.jpg << win.
1440585;1459095161;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1RuqYbk )
1440586;1459095296;BingoBoingo;seriously
1440587;1459099699;jurov;BingoBoingo: does anyone in the chan actually need a truck on regular basis?
1440588;1459099733;BingoBoingo;jurov: mod6 mebbe, but linked mostly for the picture alf singled out.
1440589;1459100263;jurov;ah that. had to look 3 times to get it.
1440590;1459100789;BingoBoingo;Maybe it is more common for you to see men use RIGID brand drill presses to accomplish even the most humble hole drilling tasks?
1440591;1459100855;kakobrekla;;;later tell davout http://dpaste.com/2P13Y79.txt
1440592;1459100857;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZFAwWl )
1440593;1459100857;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440594;1459100971;davout;kakobrekla: tyvm
1440595;1459101044;jurov;BingoBoingo: actually having rigid drill ready in the corner can be much more convenient and timesaving compared to affixing tiny bits to be drilled to chairs, even if not used often.
1440596;1459101067;jurov;my brain just repeatedly rejected the notion of anyone using it that way
1440597;1459101155;BingoBoingo;Yeah.
1440598;1459101238;BingoBoingo;I'm just kind of surprised this sort of overtooling isn't a big thing in bear pin up art.
1440599;1459101312;jurov;eh, bear pin ups are complete with just a firefighter gear
1440600;1459101366;jurov;lmao i saw even one proclaimed "a lumberjack" cuz of the axe
1440601;1459101402;jurov;so...anything beyond chainsaw is too nerdy for bear pinups
1440602;1459101429;BingoBoingo;hearing this I am disappointed more is not made of the innuendo possible from playing with the idea of big tools
1440603;1459101541;jurov;nudity + power tools = uncomfortable feeling
1440604;1459101568;jurov;it exists, but not mainstream
1440605;1459101854;deedbot-;[Qntra] March To Clinton Coronation Bumps Into Subaru Socialist Sweep - http://qntra.net/2016/03/march-to-clinton-coronation-bumps-into-subaru-socialist-sweep/
1440606;1459101857;BingoBoingo;Pin up isn't total nudity though. It's suggestive dress.
1440607;1459101890;BingoBoingo;crap I forgot a link
1440608;1459101928;BingoBoingo;fxd
1440609;1459102006;BingoBoingo;jurov: Orange chainsaw chaps tend to be just as assless as leather motorcycle chaps.
1440610;1459102094;jurov;oh that's not pinup, but advertising, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hMcoleVFFY&list=PLwD5RLR4SaJcHDQ-nH9BNOpd-AutFF0_m&index=2
1440611;1459102096;assbot;Epizoda 2: Anti-lázně - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZFBf9Y )
1440612;1459102142;BingoBoingo;Aha, but if you put it on a Calendar it becomes pinup.
1440613;1459109477;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28935 @ 0.00049362 = 14.2829 BTC [+] {3} 
1440614;1459109538;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11065 @ 0.00049236 = 5.448 BTC [-]
1440615;1459117634;asciilifeform;shinohai, mod6, et al: https://cowlark.com/2014-04-27-ada << possibly helpful
1440616;1459117636;assbot;A Random Walk Through Ada ... ( http://bit.ly/1UVyGjl )
1440617;1459117790;asciilifeform;^ mega-recommended to everyone with the faintest inkling of an interest in subj. overview of nearly all key aspects.
1440618;1459118283;asciilifeform;;;later tell BingoBoingo https://cryptome.org/2016/03/matthew-keys-docs.htm << qntra ?
1440619;1459118284;assbot;Matthew Keys Investigation-Prosecution Documents ... ( http://bit.ly/1ofmMnj )
1440620;1459118284;gribble;The operation succeeded.
1440621;1459120323;asciilifeform;http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/52779/I << dug out of vintage trilema. immortal.
1440622;1459120324;assbot;I have a deram ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLtRT2 )
1440623;1459120674;shinohai;http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2016#1440615   <<< looks interesting will read after guests leave
1440624;1459120674;assbot;Logged on 27-03-2016 22:27:14; asciilifeform: shinohai, mod6, et al: https://cowlark.com/2014-04-27-ada << possibly helpful
1440625;1459120718;*;asciilifeform swabs decks on ghost ship
1440626;1459122196;mod6;asciilifeform: thx for the link swabby
1440627;1459122367;*;asciilifeform salutes.
1440628;1459122423;shinohai;asciilifeform at the helm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMOfziFE97Y
1440629;1459122424;assbot;spongebob leedle lee patrick star clip funny ship flying dutchman SpongeBob SquarePants - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1pSEbUD )
1440630;1459124564;asciilifeform;https://cryptome.org/2016/03/keys-sabu-chen-fbi-notes.pdf << lulzy, purportedly transcript of 'sabu' stoolie
1440631;1459124567;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZFND9S )
1440632;1459125093;asciilifeform;wb mike_c
1440633;1459125104;mike_c;hi alf, thx.
1440634;1459125572;asciilifeform;;;seen kakobrekla
1440635;1459125573;gribble;kakobrekla was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 hours, 51 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <kakobrekla> ;;later tell davout http://dpaste.com/2P13Y79.txt
1440636;1459125588;kakobrekla;yes?
1440637;1459125606;asciilifeform;kakotest!
1440638;1459125831;deedbot-;[Trilema] Autumnal Argentina - http://trilema.com/2016/autumnal-argentina/
1440639;1459125879;asciilifeform;^ looks like mircea_popescu's parrot shot came out slightly better than mine
1440640;1459125884;asciilifeform;(iirc he has same lens!)
1440641;1459125920;asciilifeform;fella must've used a class-A meat tripod!11
1440642;1459126071;mircea_popescu;it was like a mile away or some shit.
1440643;1459126100;asciilifeform;'..twelve people between the ages of nine and sixty, including a coupla teenaged girlies, that stops in the door.' << we have these here !
1440644;1459126405;asciilifeform;fuckdamnit i can almost TASTE these parrots.
1440645;1459126458;*;asciilifeform stares southward.
1440646;1459126581;asciilifeform;http://i.imgur.com/vqBBXFm.jpg << the one on my hdd. i still have not identified the species.
1440647;1459126582;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/21OcKGU )
1440648;1459126600;asciilifeform;perhaps ben_vulpes knows
1440649;1459126621;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you have sakuras over there ?
1440650;1459126921;asciilifeform;http://i.imgur.com/XSjyCZm.jpg << sakuras in bloom, from rowboat, partial pet on right hand.
1440651;1459126922;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uw3yZo )
1440652;1459126983;asciilifeform;falling petals, who can avoid the thought of the goban, the sword, seppuku, forgotten honour!11111
1440653;1459127041;mike_c;nice shot. where is that?
1440654;1459127061;asciilifeform;wash.,d.c.
1440655;1459127072;asciilifeform;the very middle of it.
1440656;1459127271;asciilifeform;http://i.imgur.com/Q8Oofs3.jpg << 'bitcoin atm'. first time i ever even saw such a thing.
1440657;1459127272;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uw3ZTr )
1440658;1459127282;asciilifeform;was in the lobby of some random food thing.
1440659;1459127465;asciilifeform;notice the 'hitler-compliant!11' sticker on bottom right hand.
1440660;1459128426;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I do not have parrots, but most days now I do have titmice flutting about outside
1440661;1459134548;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00049273 = 7.8344 BTC [+]
1440662;1459134868;*;asciilifeform reread golden oldie, http://trilema.com/2012/probably-the-hottest-business-idea-of-the-moment-in-btc
1440663;1459134869;assbot;Probably the hottest business idea of the moment in BTC... on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MuIkIg )
1440664;1459134923;asciilifeform;'For open source code, you read the code, line by line, verify that it is in fact safe to run. You then issue a PGP-signed certificate which pretty much says "I the X of Y have reviewed the below code and judged it safe in accordance with Z".'
1440665;1459135198;asciilifeform;in other 'news,' https://vjordan.info/log/fpga/xc6slx9-die-layout-and-bitstream.html
1440666;1459135200;assbot;XC6SLX9 die layout and bitstream ... ( http://bit.ly/1MuII9u )
1440667;1459135321;*;asciilifeform mined some of his first btc on xc6slx9
1440668;1459141742;deedbot-;[» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The underpriced option. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/27/the-underpriced-option/
1440669;1459168959;asciilifeform;http://www.welivesecurity.com/2016/03/23/new-self-protecting-usb-trojan-able-to-avoid-detection << Run Moar Winblowz!1111
1440670;1459168960;assbot; ... ( http://bit.ly/1WSDNzD )
1440671;1459169077;asciilifeform;(somebody explain to me why anyone ever used aes128 for anything..?)
1440672;1459170172;assbot;[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00049226 = 10.682 BTC [-] {2} 
1440673;1459170681;mircea_popescu;upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
1440674;1459170681;mircea_popescu;there's absolutely no place in the future, or among civilised people, for this "hi i r zuckerberg and i ~created~ facebook" thing. i can see how it continues the "oh, mp is raining money, let me not get in his way" thing from before, but consistency in poltroonism does not enact poltroonism as an acceptable life philosophy.
1440675;1459170681;mircea_popescu;i can readily understand that fiatism has been for all and sundry the unique way of life, since "forever" ; i can see how the shit is well ensconced and difficult to wash off. nevertheless, loyalty to a group, as opposed to the individual, is still socialism, as much so as either GOP or NSDAP ever were. preserve that and you preserve it all.
1440676;1459170685;mircea_popescu;vaguely defining the group in question, ad-hoc or after the fact, does not resolve the problem, one's still a poltroon. appeals to "science" or "law" or whatever other conveniently vague abstraction still doesn't resolve the fact that one's placed himself on the hostis humani generis side of the debate.
1440677;1459170689;mircea_popescu;and so, this is the end for this particular irc channel as a venue for tmsr. the irc festivities are moving over to #trilema ; with a more selective lordship list and improved tools all around. you're welcome to join - but leave the fiat mind behind, lest it drag you too back down into the swamp.